The John-Henry Westen Show - The Way to Overcome Abuse-Caused Homosexuality - Daily Mass and Regular Confession

00:00:00.000 And she actually confronted her husband.

00:00:02.160 She said, I'm not certain you look like your son.

00:00:04.380 She said, you spent almost no time with him.

00:00:06.200 You've got all your interests.

00:00:07.720 And he said, well, I'm not interested in his stuff.

00:00:10.680 And she said, well, you better be. 0.99

00:00:12.640 She said, because if he turns out to be gay, I'm blaming you. 0.99

00:00:16.340 And so the father did a 180-degree turn. 0.98

00:00:25.420 Hey, my friends.

00:00:26.200 You know, one of the hardest subjects in the world to talk about is homosexuality.

00:00:32.520 It is particularly hard for people who experience that temptation, that want to do that.

00:00:39.720 And how do you do that?

00:00:40.980 And how do you, as a parent, deal with children who either seem to be that way or then pronounce 0.60

00:00:48.240 themselves that way?

00:00:51.180 Tough questions.

00:00:52.280 We're going to talk with somebody today who's been dealing with those things for many,

00:00:56.980 many years.

00:00:57.360 She was a professor at a seminary.

00:01:00.520 She's very well known to all of you, especially Catholics who have ever heard of the tape

00:01:07.960 contraception.

00:01:09.440 Why not?

00:01:10.700 And that was Dr. Janet Smith many moons ago now.

00:01:14.980 We've got her on right now on this episode of The John Henry Weston Show.

00:01:18.100 Stay tuned.

00:01:18.460 Hey, my friends.

00:01:21.540 You've heard about the Eucharistic revival that's going on.

00:01:24.700 The pilgrimage is going to culminate in Indiana at the Eucharistic Congress.

00:01:29.580 Well, we've got amazing news for you.

00:01:31.340 We are holding a traditional Latin math steps away from the main Congress center because we

00:01:36.780 learned at first there was no traditional Latin mass, not on the schedule.

00:01:41.240 And we thought, oh, no, what we can do.

00:01:42.960 One of our donors said, can you fix that?

00:01:44.800 We found Victory Field right across steps away from where the Congress is being held to hold

00:01:49.320 the Latin mass.

00:01:49.840 And guess what?

00:01:50.680 We learned that since then, there were some announcements of other Latin masses that are

00:01:55.960 going to be in the area on different days.

00:01:58.280 And so it's really awesome.

00:02:00.080 So if you are in the traditional Latin mass, you thought, oh, I can't go to the Congress

00:02:04.160 because they don't have one there.

00:02:05.800 They do have them there now.

00:02:07.540 And it's just wonderful.

00:02:09.440 This is Father Fasching.

00:02:10.620 He's going to be there.

00:02:11.620 And this is Father James Altman, who's going to be there.

00:02:14.660 They're going to be celebrating masses for us.

00:02:16.660 Lifesite's going to be inside the Congress as well, as is Vicki Yamasaki. 0.57

00:02:21.480 Vicki, go ahead. 0.95

00:02:22.220 Yeah, we're just so excited.

00:02:24.120 We hope you join us and sign up for this free event, free lunches because of a generous donor.

00:02:33.020 As he said, I'm actually going to be at the Eucharistic Congress, and I'm going to walk

00:02:38.800 away from my booth so that I can enjoy this traditional Latin mass and these three great

00:02:45.560 speakers that will offer insights into why it is that so many Catholics no longer believe

00:02:55.920 in the real presence.

00:02:58.220 As we know, in our Catholic culture, in our Catholic teaching, there's a phrase,

00:03:03.240 Lexa Rondi, Lexa Gedendi.

00:03:04.400 As we pray, so we believe.

00:03:06.760 And through the traditional Latin mass, it inspires such depth of prayer.

00:03:12.300 No funny business going on up there.

00:03:13.880 People believe.

00:03:14.660 And so we're trying to inspire that belief in the real presence because without which,

00:03:19.180 we do not have life within us.

00:03:20.480 Thus, what we're doing will actually be throwing fuel on the fire of revival, a belief in the

00:03:27.840 real presence of the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, our Lord, in the

00:03:30.980 Holy Eucharist.

00:03:31.720 Amen.

00:03:33.080 Father, I'm thrilled for the opportunity to remind you what you can be doing to renew your

00:03:39.860 own personal devotion to the Eucharist and also how to get others to remind them to deepen

00:03:47.120 their faith in worshiping our Lord in the Eucharist.

00:03:49.760 So based on my own experience, it's just going to be a great opportunity to remind people

00:03:54.700 of what the church teaches us, that our lives are supposed to revolve around the Holy Eucharist.

00:03:59.880 So I'm looking forward to it.

00:04:01.460 I'm going to walk right across the street to Victory Field and join you for this beautiful

00:04:10.380 traditional Latin mass on July 19th and hear from these three fantastic speakers.

00:04:17.760 And maybe you can catch the other traditional Latin mass the day before with Archbishop

00:04:25.540 Coeur d'Alene, and now that's a little further away.

00:04:29.460 That's just under two miles at Holy Rosary Catholic Church, smaller parish.

00:04:36.380 It can seat about 400, so you better get a seat early there.

00:04:40.840 Victory Field seats about 10,000.

00:04:43.380 So register soon.

00:04:45.940 We can't wait to see you.

00:04:47.720 Join us, our friends, at Victory Field on July 19th, right steps away from the Eucharistic

00:04:54.060 Congress in Indianapolis, Indiana.

00:04:56.980 God bless you and look forward to seeing you there.

00:05:01.100 Janet, thanks so much for being with us.

00:05:02.540 Oh, good to be here.

00:05:03.240 God bless you and all your work for many years.

00:05:06.800 I first heard of you like probably most of the world with contraception.

00:05:10.760 Why not?

00:05:12.240 You went on to be a professor at seminary.

00:05:15.480 You then got into probably, I think, one of the hardest works after you left the seminary,

00:05:23.000 and that is into the abuse situation with priestly abuse, priestly sexual abuse, and the victims.

00:05:31.980 Tell us a little bit about that.

00:05:33.340 That's probably one of the most difficult things.

00:05:36.280 Yes, it's all come to me.

00:05:38.520 I don't seek these things out in an odd way, but I wrote a couple columns just expressing

00:05:44.540 any decent person's horror at learning that there was so much sexual abuse in our church.

00:05:50.960 And God didn't make it easy on me.

00:05:54.220 He threw me the hardest cases.

00:05:56.980 Women, two women and one boy who had been ritually sexually abused by priests.

00:06:01.240 And in one sense, it's impossible to deal with it because the hurt is so deep, and I'm certainly

00:06:09.440 not trained to deal with that.

00:06:12.180 But what I can offer is a listening ear, and they are just so grateful that someone who has

00:06:20.200 some stature in the church is willing to hear their stories.

00:06:24.560 They'll say, why don't you call me?

00:06:26.360 And they'll call and very tentatively say, are you sure you're interested in my story?

00:06:30.480 I said, I don't know if there's any way on the face of the earth I can help you, but

00:06:34.380 I'm very interested in your story.

00:06:37.000 And they tell me their stories.

00:06:38.980 And one is a woman that was abused when she was, for two years, nine and ten, by her parish

00:06:45.580 priest, satanically richly abused with another young girl at the same time, and didn't report

00:06:53.920 it until she was about 50 years old, which is very common that it takes that long.

00:07:00.480 And maybe a bit younger.

00:07:04.380 And anyway, so she's reported it again.

00:07:06.940 And all we've run up against are lies by the archdiocese.

00:07:11.740 The priest is still alive.

00:07:13.700 He's serving at a chaplain at an institution that cares for children.

00:07:18.620 And we've tried to get the media interested.

00:07:22.520 Just all we get are slam doors.

00:07:25.060 It's just horrible.

00:07:26.180 She's gotten stronger through the whole process, though.

00:07:28.400 It's a very beautiful thing.

00:07:30.320 She's always maintained her faith.

00:07:31.700 So you can't say that she's injury-free.

00:07:36.240 She's, her whole life has been affected by this.

00:07:38.660 But then the other woman is, her story is very public, Rachel Mastro-Giacomo.

00:07:44.260 Have you had her on?

00:07:45.600 No.

00:07:46.120 Okay, her story's pretty much everywhere.

00:07:48.120 She was abused by a priest, young priest, newly ordained priest from North American College.

00:07:53.780 She was in Rome, and he just used satanic grooming techniques, a very virginal, beautiful woman. 0.58

00:08:02.820 And it took her a long time to break out of that.

00:08:07.100 She thought she was doing God's will when she was cooperating with him.

00:08:10.160 You know, he was very seductive and persuasive, and she finally realized what had been going on.

00:08:19.360 And he eventually confessed and was convicted, all right?

00:08:25.140 She's happily married, but things will trigger her like crazy if something comes up in the news that impacts upon her case.

00:08:35.320 She dealt with an exorcist who told her there's only three, there's three responses, basically.

00:08:41.680 One is you commit suicide.

00:08:43.480 The second is you go over to the dark side.

00:08:46.140 And the third is that somehow you become a survivor, and she is a survivor.

00:08:50.500 But she's in her late 30s now, very, maybe mid-30s, but amazingly together.

00:08:58.420 But still, it affects probably every waking hour in some way.

00:09:03.400 And then a young man that I know that was abused by the priest at his high school.

00:09:08.700 And the priest was incredibly popular, and nobody would believe him, not the principal, not the guidance counselor.

00:09:15.580 They'd shut him down the minute he'd start trying to explain what happened.

00:09:19.020 You know, don't say that about Father So-and-so.

00:09:21.060 He's a wonderful priest.

00:09:22.600 And he went to meet with a specialist on satanic ritual sexual abuse, and she said he's absolutely credible. 0.64

00:09:29.920 Everything he says is exactly what such people do, the way that he says it.

00:09:36.880 And Boyd has some special challenges, and so there's just no way he could make all that stuff up.

00:09:42.720 So still today, this is what we're dealing with.

00:09:46.500 You know, he doesn't have a job.

00:09:48.100 He's just kind of lost in this world.

00:09:49.600 He doesn't know what to do.

00:09:50.260 And again, to find people who believe him is huge.

00:09:54.440 It's just huge.

00:09:56.720 This is very difficult because a lot of people, they want to believe the goodness of people.

00:10:02.540 They can't imagine that someone they know, particularly someone who is a priest or someone elevated in the community, could possibly do these things.

00:10:11.820 How do you suss that out?

00:10:13.160 How do you figure out what's what?

00:10:17.180 Well, part of it is the bizarreness of it.

00:10:20.280 People don't make this stuff up.

00:10:22.640 And you can see the damage.

00:10:25.360 You know, you say, well, whether this guy did it to you or not, something happened because you're obviously in a state of trauma or have been.

00:10:33.120 And then the the exorcists say the stories just have a pattern and you have to say, can these people really read up on this and memorize the pattern and tell these stories?

00:10:45.700 Or you say, no, no, no, this is this is exactly what it is.

00:10:48.660 And I have to tell the victims all the time when people don't.

00:10:51.860 It's just you said when they don't believe them.

00:10:53.660 I said, we can't.

00:10:55.240 I said, it's just too grisly.

00:10:58.200 And as you said, to think that a priest would do these, that's held Jesus in his hands.

00:11:03.600 I said, it's next to impossible to believe until you're sort of up front.

00:11:08.320 You face it, particularly outside of all of our experience.

00:11:11.960 And it's unimaginable that someone you have has gone through formation, has gone through this and been on the altar.

00:11:18.720 And he's done good things.

00:11:20.060 Many of them have done beautiful things.

00:11:21.560 You know, one, you remember Neinstadt, Archbishop Neinstadt.

00:11:28.600 Well, I was trying to talk to a man about how bad he was.

00:11:33.360 And he said, well, he baptized my daughter.

00:11:35.120 He married my other daughter.

00:11:36.680 And he gave my mother last rites.

00:11:40.800 He said, I can't believe that of him.

00:11:42.840 So, I mean, I don't blame that man.

00:11:45.880 He's going with his own experience.

00:11:47.500 And that really, you know, the truth that we know intellectually and our own experience should really be, I mean, not that we can't and must question our own experience.

00:11:58.540 We've got to start there.

00:11:59.760 And we have to have some reason to distrust it.

00:12:02.140 And often we do.

00:12:03.040 But I didn't give him enough reasons to distrust it.

00:12:05.420 I mean, he had had a good experience of this archbishop. 1.00

00:12:08.660 And I don't think he was a stupid or naive man. 0.99

00:12:10.980 He had had a certain experience. 0.99

00:12:12.760 Yeah.

00:12:13.780 And this is the thing.

00:12:15.700 People are sort of, they're kind of bifurcated because they do do, as you were saying, some good things.

00:12:21.580 I remember there are a lot of people who knew Ted McCarrick when he was, you know, cardinal, archbishop.

00:12:28.040 And a lot of people who were on the Orthodox side of the church were like, they would have believed anything of him because, you know.

00:12:36.420 But if you weren't there, if you were sort of a, you know, middle-of-the-road Catholic, he was political, yeah.

00:12:44.220 But he was a really good guy.

00:12:45.820 He gave lots of money to charities.

00:12:48.020 And you know how many little kids he helped with the money he gave, which was true.

00:12:52.480 Yeah.

00:12:53.500 But we now know who he really was.

00:12:57.260 We have to remember that they are in the grip of Satan.

00:13:01.240 So Satan gives them special gifts.

00:13:03.840 Satan gives them charm.

00:13:04.980 Satan gives them the ability to be a fundraiser.

00:13:08.000 He gives them all this window dressing so that people will be sucked in to their project.

00:13:13.720 So it should be no surprise that some of those who are the worst seem the best because that helps Satan out tremendously.

00:13:22.360 Yeah.

00:13:23.160 If you, which is a side question, have you ever, how do you discern if you're looking at a priest?

00:13:29.060 Is there any way to discern or that you've found an indicator that might suggest, no, this guy's solid?

00:13:38.400 That he's solid?

00:13:39.540 Yeah.

00:13:39.800 Yeah.

00:13:40.220 Yeah.

00:13:40.400 One is length of prayer.

00:13:44.140 If you really see a priest praying a lot, all right, the others will just come out with a show.

00:13:49.880 They might show up at a pro-life rally or something.

00:13:52.160 But if you know him to be a prayerful man, if you know him to go on retreats, all right, if he's citing some of the best spiritual authors, if he's giving homilies, not just on God loves you, but there is sin in this world.

00:14:09.220 You need to fight sin, et cetera, et cetera.

00:14:11.440 The ones that are more evil, again, they're oily.

00:14:16.180 And so they will say the right things, but they're very shallow right things.

00:14:21.540 It's the good priests will challenge you and, you know, just say you really need to be fasting.

00:14:27.240 You need to be doing this.

00:14:28.840 Believe me, bad priests don't want people fasting and saying the rosary and going on retreats, all right?

00:14:34.020 So they'll just give you a snow job that God loves you the way you are.

00:14:39.060 Don't worry.

00:14:39.620 There's no hell.

00:14:40.400 There's no this.

00:14:41.380 But the good priests walk the walk if they're fasting, if they're, if you see them walking up and down saying their rosary, if you, again, not just for show, not where you're going to see them do this, but you know they do this.

00:14:53.680 So it's, they do the right things.

00:14:56.600 The other ones can be very charming.

00:14:58.160 Again, they can show up.

00:14:59.160 They can do an after-dinner speech that's absolutely charming with great stories.

00:15:03.820 And some of the stories are great stories, but there, but you can, there's no evidence that this guy is living it himself.

00:15:12.340 He likes to be in the spotlight.

00:15:14.480 Okay.

00:15:15.400 One of the, this whole area of, of sexuality, it's very hard.

00:15:22.380 People come to it in different ways.

00:15:24.340 You know, some are abused and come to it.

00:15:27.360 Others see pornography and come to it.

00:15:29.580 It's all sorts of ways of getting there.

00:15:31.640 No one's born homosexual.

00:15:33.820 Um, but, um, one of the things that I think is, is central to all this, because it's so much in the culture right now.

00:15:42.340 It's so congratulated.

00:15:44.100 Yeah.

00:15:44.340 Any hint toward it in your school is lauding you for.

00:15:47.220 You've become the most popular.

00:15:48.740 Oh, that's so wonderful.

00:15:50.380 You're, like, it's the exact opposite.

00:15:52.100 But, so parents are left in a quandary.

00:15:56.620 How, oh no, my son is going this way.

00:15:59.540 My daughter seems to be, what do we do?

00:16:01.900 There's nothing.

00:16:02.360 Because the, the school hasn't told them.

00:16:03.820 They've been doing that for three years.

00:16:04.960 And now they're coming home saying, oh, by the way, I'm gay.

00:16:07.700 I've been gay at school.

00:16:08.500 But you didn't know.

00:16:09.180 But I can tell you now.

00:16:11.120 What in the world can parents do to, to, to rectify, to reach it, to, to do anything?

00:16:17.520 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:19.660 Again, most parents would be devastated, of course, to hear that.

00:16:24.140 Good Catholic parents would be absolutely devastated.

00:16:26.520 And sometimes you can get mad at the child, mad at the world, mad at yourself.

00:16:31.460 This is where you have to drop on all your strengths and take a deep breath and say, you know, Holy Spirit, help me respond to him.

00:16:40.240 And the most, first, the most important thing is to hear him out.

00:16:44.320 You know, if it's a son or a daughter, and just say, what makes you think this?

00:16:50.760 When did you first start thinking it?

00:16:53.860 You know, how has your life been since you've thought this?

00:16:58.720 What do you do with yourself and your friends?

00:17:01.220 And are you happy?

00:17:03.540 Or are there times when you're really sad and you're really lonely?

00:17:07.920 I'm glad you came to me.

00:17:09.600 I'm really glad you came to me.

00:17:11.340 I'm your father, your mother.

00:17:12.540 We love you and we want what's best and what's right for you.

00:17:17.000 So let's just start this conversation, you know, and I'm so glad you told me.

00:17:22.960 And let's just, you know, maybe now's not a good time, but let's have, maybe if it is a good time, let's have an initial conversation.

00:17:29.920 And then let's go do our stuff and come back later tonight and talk.

00:17:33.780 And then you and the husband and wife go back, go off, and you have a conversation with yourself.

00:17:38.720 How are we going to deal with this?

00:17:40.200 The last thing they need is for you to just, you know, where did I go wrong?

00:17:46.440 What did I do wrong?

00:17:47.540 How could you be doing this stuff?

00:17:49.500 You know, I can't believe it.

00:17:51.240 You know how we think.

00:17:52.300 You know what we think.

00:17:53.060 You know this is a path to hell. 0.99

00:17:55.080 That's like taking your child and just shoving them into the homosexual community because it's saying, I'm not going to get any love at home. 0.98

00:18:03.900 And a big problem is a lack of self-esteem, loneliness.

00:18:08.640 This group accepts them.

00:18:10.320 They usually don't accept themselves that much for whatever reason.

00:18:13.540 We can talk more about that, but that some reason they have thought, I can't fit in with heterosexual guys or heterosexual women.

00:18:22.560 Women, it's less that way. 1.00

00:18:23.840 It's more personal.

00:18:25.240 Guys, it's, I don't feel masculine enough.

00:18:28.420 Women, it's just that I don't feel loved enough, and this woman is showing me love.

00:18:33.300 With men, it's, I don't feel masculine enough, all right?

00:18:37.640 And so, and part of it is my father doesn't love me.

00:18:40.680 And so, my father doesn't love me because he doesn't think I'm masculine enough.

00:18:45.640 So, it sort of keeps coming back to that.

00:18:49.620 And so, there's, so, and then meet again, you know, and you just say, well, honey, let's talk about this.

00:18:55.760 Again, let's talk about going forward.

00:18:58.380 Are you, are you thinking you don't want to continue down this path?

00:19:03.140 Or are you announcing to us that you are continuing down this path?

00:19:07.400 And so, you, so again, you just say, well, I think what we need to do as a family is just to keep coming together.

00:19:15.540 You know, we're Catholics, and we understand that this is not God's plan.

00:19:19.400 God loves you.

00:19:20.380 You're made in the image and likeness of God.

00:19:22.180 You're a beloved son of God.

00:19:24.080 God doesn't hate you for this.

00:19:25.600 He does not hate you for this.

00:19:27.260 He loves you.

00:19:28.040 He loves you all the more, just as we do.

00:19:30.220 We're wanting to help you in any way you can.

00:19:33.860 But you have to know we don't approve of living out this lifestyle.

00:19:38.460 We don't think it will lead to your happiness.

00:19:40.120 We don't think it's in accord with God's will for his children.

00:19:44.080 We'll talk a lot more about that as we go along.

00:19:47.740 And so you, the biggest thing is really to keep in contact and not to shun the child, not to kick them out.

00:19:55.440 There may come a time for that.

00:19:58.520 I mean, it, you know, Joe Chambra, many people know him. 0.96

00:20:03.700 He was a gay porn star for a long period of time. 0.92

00:20:07.180 His father was a devout Catholic and spent years just sitting in a chair, saying the rosary for his son. 0.97

00:20:14.140 And one time his son showed up with one of his homosexual friends, and his father got very angry and said, 0.95

00:20:20.680 don't you come around here with your depraved friends anymore. 0.96

00:20:23.180 All right, that was a real wake-up call for Joe. 0.59

00:20:27.880 It worked for Joe.

00:20:29.460 I'm not saying it's going to work for everybody.

00:20:31.540 I suspect more often is the case that, all right, you're telling me you have a boyfriend to a man, to a male, your son.

00:20:39.900 You say, I'd like to meet him.

00:20:42.400 That's hard.

00:20:43.320 But you say, I'd like to meet him.

00:20:44.280 And part of it is, you know, a person might very well be a pretty nice person.

00:20:51.560 And you sort of blame him.

00:20:52.900 You sort of think this guy led your son into sin.

00:20:56.880 Could be the other way around.

00:20:59.100 And probably neither one led the other into sin.

00:21:02.040 There's something else in their past that brought them here.

00:21:04.300 And so you want to say, I suspect if you like him and he likes you, I'm going to like him.

00:21:09.580 I don't approve of it, but I assume he's probably going to be a good person because why would you like someone who's not a good person?

00:21:16.960 So let's go to lunch, right?

00:21:19.200 Now, a lot of it is sometimes, luckily enough, and honestly, the partner says, you're Catholic.

00:21:25.780 Why does the Catholic Church oppose homosexuality?

00:21:29.700 You can talk to the friend more easily than you can talk to your son.

00:21:33.060 All right?

00:21:33.560 It's just an innocent query, and you're answering an innocent query.

00:21:37.400 And you can say to both of them, I like the fact that you love my son.

00:21:43.840 I love my son.

00:21:45.120 But, again, I think the two of you are going down the wrong path.

00:21:48.060 It doesn't mean I don't want to be with you, don't want to talk with you.

00:21:51.140 But, you know, especially if I have younger children at home, I'm sorry I can't have you there because they'll pick up on it,

00:21:58.000 and they'll know what's going on, and it's going to be hard for them to think we don't approve.

00:22:02.120 But I'd be happy to meet with you for lunch once a month or something.

00:22:08.100 We can chat together.

00:22:09.740 And even just friends, you call them every once in a while and just say, you know, how are you doing?

00:22:16.180 Are you having trouble at work?

00:22:17.520 I'll pray for whatever it is that you're working on, not finding a nice new apartment.

00:22:25.400 I'll pray for you.

00:22:26.460 So you just keep this human contact, all right, because a major problem with those who have entered into the homosexual lifestyle 1.00

00:22:34.300 is that they think heterosexuals hate them. 0.76

00:22:40.780 They feel like lepers. 0.98

00:22:41.600 I have a friend who tells me he feels like a leper. 0.85

00:22:43.280 He feels like heterosexual men are not at all interested in friendship with him.

00:22:48.580 And homosexual, I mean, heterosexual women treat him kind of as like a pet, you know, a non-threatening male.

00:22:55.360 You know, women enjoy male company, and actually they actually also enjoy homosexual male company 0.96

00:22:59.780 because whatever they think of themselves, we know they're male, all right?

00:23:04.820 And they have many male characteristics that women like, all right?

00:23:08.760 I have one homosexual friend, male.

00:23:12.800 He is so attentive and protective.

00:23:15.140 It's remarkable, as much as any heterosexual, more so, you know? 0.72

00:23:19.220 And it's just, he has that proper, he doesn't have a sexual response, but he has a proper gender response, if you want to call it.

00:23:26.620 I'm female, he's male, he acts like a male in all sorts of ways.

00:23:32.040 Can I do this for you?

00:23:32.880 Can I get this for you?

00:23:33.600 Can I do that?

00:23:34.160 It's just beautiful.

00:23:35.700 So people have to get into that genuineness.

00:23:39.000 And heterosexual men, they need to include homosexual men in their group 1.00

00:23:45.480 and just make them feel welcome, and not like it's great charity, again, because they're human beings,

00:23:51.600 which means they have all sorts of beautiful qualities.

00:23:54.600 And so we can enjoy those qualities and not just focus on who he's gay.

00:23:59.220 You know, just let that be on the side.

00:24:03.540 You know, I have friends that I don't, some of them I don't like their sense of humor.

00:24:06.500 Sometimes I don't like their obtuseness, whatever it is.

00:24:10.100 But I still like them.

00:24:11.700 You know, they still have many qualities that I'm happy to be around and happy to have them around.

00:24:16.560 Mm-hmm.

00:24:17.540 It is loneliness is one of those things that is expressed probably by everyone I've ever known 0.90

00:24:22.360 who has homosexual tendencies. 0.81

00:24:24.640 It's been always about loneliness, and it's kind of brutal.

00:24:28.380 I remember one of my friends particularly was, you know, when we all got married, we used to hang out,

00:24:36.720 and then a bunch of the couples all got married, and they were sort of left out.

00:24:41.360 And the kids come, and then you move, and so you do it.

00:24:45.740 These are tough, tough things.

00:24:47.080 I can see it.

00:24:48.400 You know, it's like, whoa, what do you do?

00:24:51.580 So the friendship networks that Courage established and other groups like that that are true to the faith

00:24:58.300 are very, very important.

00:25:01.480 Although the hanging out also with non-homosexuals is very important.

00:25:07.940 Very important.

00:25:08.400 And honestly, especially with males, I think, and I don't know as much about lesbianism because it's more complicated, honestly.

00:25:16.840 In every way, women are more complicated than men. 0.66

00:25:19.540 Men are pretty darn easy to figure out.

00:25:22.980 That might be false, but at least there's a huge difference between the two. 0.58

00:25:28.240 And the pattern for the male homosexual is very clear, what leads to it. 0.83

00:25:33.200 There's a book written by Janelle Holman.

00:25:37.160 I know the last name is Holman.

00:25:38.660 Wonderful book.

00:25:39.640 Not a Catholic, but she identifies four different kinds of lesbianism, and it's not like hard patterns.

00:25:45.240 But they're very different, and with males, again, they're going to feel very lonely, and they don't feel masculine enough.

00:25:56.280 That's a major reason for a lot of the bodybuilding and that sort of thing is at least they have muscles, you know,

00:26:03.120 and of course that makes them physically more attractive, but a lot of it is that I look masculine.

00:26:08.740 But they really do need to learn, in a certain sense, masculine ways of being and being around other men.

00:26:17.180 They tend to do that.

00:26:18.700 They just pick up some habits and qualities.

00:26:22.360 And it's funny because men, most men, in a certain sense, are a little bit nervous, like, am I masculine enough?

00:26:29.740 You know, there's a little voice in their heads, am I masculine enough?

00:26:33.640 Almost no female worries about whether she's feminine enough. 0.99

00:26:37.340 I mean, even if she basically wears overalls all the time and flannel shirts and cuts her hair short, 0.98

00:26:43.320 there's nothing in her head that's saying, I'm just me.

00:26:47.660 You know, I'm just me, and I can have babies, and that means I'm feminine enough.

00:26:53.800 And so, you know, we might think, am I put together well enough?

00:26:58.780 The really healthy heterosexual women are kind of always thinking, well, she's dressed better than I am, or she's, you know, whatever. 0.95

00:27:08.520 But there's not, it might be, am I put together well enough, but not am I feminine enough?

00:27:14.340 It might be, am I good mother, et cetera.

00:27:16.220 But the question, am I feminine enough?

00:27:18.720 It's not frequent.

00:27:20.340 But for males, I think every male has some sort of little voice in his head saying, am I manning up enough?

00:27:26.980 You know?

00:27:27.580 It's a funny thing.

00:27:28.780 So the need for any lonely person, but a person who has a lot of self-doubt, which is what, again, profound self-doubt about whether they're masculine enough,

00:27:46.340 profound self-doubt about whether anybody could really enjoy their company who's not gay or homosexual or experiencing same-sex attraction.

00:27:55.380 Someone always chastises me because I don't use that enough.

00:28:00.200 And they're probably right about that.

00:28:02.700 But it is the, is they simply need family.

00:28:08.140 And they need to be with families.

00:28:10.680 And they need not just men and not just women.

00:28:13.420 And, I mean, just as a single woman, I love to be invited to households with families, you know.

00:28:21.200 And I'm getting older, so I can't hear, and it's a little bit too loud for me.

00:28:24.860 But, really, you park me in a corner, and I'm pretty darn happy just watching the life around me.

00:28:33.060 And so you see that people, and most people are happy to have you there because even when I was not so old but, you know, youngish,

00:28:41.980 and people would have me over and they just love it because I talk to their kids, you know, like, how's school and how's this and show me your painting.

00:28:47.800 And the kids get all sorts of attention that they don't, they can't, getting it from mom and dad is nice, but getting it from someone else is also nice too.

00:28:55.720 So to think about that, just think, you know, it's not hard to put one more plate at the table.

00:29:00.220 And I haven't seen so-and-so for a while, so why don't I just invite them over?

00:29:03.740 Last minute, they'll probably come, you know, a meal with people, you know.

00:29:08.660 So I think that's what people need to do is just to reach out to friends that are alone, whether it's they're homosexual or just not married.

00:29:18.720 And they, I mean, single people don't like to be only with single people.

00:29:21.800 All right, we like married couples, we like children, so.

00:29:51.800 That was awesome.

00:29:53.760 So other national events will be included.

00:29:55.660 Do you want to try your hand at one of the most exciting places to work in the pro-freedom movement?

00:30:00.860 Join the LifeSite News team to serve Christ and spread his truth on life, faith, family, and freedom.

00:30:06.460 To apply, simply email your resume, demo reel, and cover letter to resumes at lifesitenews.com.

00:30:15.800 Wages are competitive and relocation package is included.

00:30:19.440 May God bless you, and I hope to see you on the LifeSite News team.

00:30:25.900 Beautiful.

00:30:27.060 One of the things that I thought we talked about before that I thought was so incredible that I'd love you to repeat is just the progression from when kids are young, particularly the boys,

00:30:41.260 and they notice patterns that might lead to this doubt about masculinity.

00:30:48.000 They're not the ones sporty ones.

00:30:50.840 Everybody else is sporty.

00:30:51.860 And all in your family, you're always going to have that.

00:30:54.100 I had, you know, six boys, and so we've had variation as much as you can get.

00:30:58.400 And what you were saying about how to deal with that, how to grant that masculinity, if you will, if you wouldn't mind telling us that.

00:31:08.820 Yes, I think that's so important.

00:31:10.440 And I learned this first from a woman who heard that I was, I mean, mostly I talked about it first from sort of a doctrinal point of view,

00:31:16.560 in a very theoretical, very academic way.

00:31:20.300 And then the human starts coming in.

00:31:23.600 And it doesn't make me in the least bit question the church is teaching.

00:31:26.700 It's absolutely right.

00:31:28.080 But the reality is extremely complicated.

00:31:31.180 And, you know, as we say, hate the sin and not the sinner.

00:31:35.900 And this becomes very important because, I mean, many of those, I mean, we are, as you said,

00:31:41.020 we are being choked by sort of a homosexual onslaught to accept the homosexuals and privilege them, 1.00

00:31:51.520 change our laws on marriage, change our education, everything. 0.98

00:31:55.420 These grotesque pride parades, grotesque, what do you call them, drag queens. 1.00

00:32:02.440 Unbelievable. 0.94

00:32:03.440 I was recently in Uganda.

00:32:05.700 And one thing that surprised me is they very kind of, you know, sweetly and said,

00:32:10.740 you know, we actually think everybody in America is gay.

00:32:15.740 It was hilarious.

00:32:17.160 And I said, I don't blame you.

00:32:18.900 I said, that's all we see anymore either.

00:32:21.480 Every ad, every show, everything is promoting this.

00:32:25.820 But I just thought it was hilarious.

00:32:27.440 Okay. 0.76

00:32:28.120 So there is obviously a huge, tremendously objectionable element to the whole homosexual reality. 1.00

00:32:37.820 All right.

00:32:38.440 But to transfer this to each and every individual is really, really wrong.

00:32:44.400 And not to see what, in a certain sense, has led them to that.

00:32:49.140 And it's, I'll say more about that, but I'll work in through the question you had about children.

00:32:56.660 That, you know, you had eight boys.

00:32:58.840 And as you say, there's not a spectrum of necessarily masculinity, but a spectrum of interests.

00:33:04.980 All right.

00:33:05.440 Some are very, cars and sports and girls from very early on.

00:33:11.700 Another one, not so much, might like to cook, might like to draw, might like music, you know.

00:33:19.800 And so maybe dad is the one that likes the cars and the sports, et cetera.

00:33:24.460 And so he hangs out with those boys.

00:33:27.200 And these other boys start to feel like, you know, I don't fit in to the guy contingent of this family.

00:33:34.180 I'm different.

00:33:36.400 And that's a very sad thing when you start saying, I'm different.

00:33:39.380 You want to say, well, you do.

00:33:40.400 You have different interests.

00:33:42.080 But these are certainly masculine men do these things.

00:33:45.740 So, again, it's where dad has to, instead of going play catch with the boys that like to do that, he needs to color with the boy that likes to color.

00:33:54.300 You know, he needs to go in the kitchen with him and bake or cook with him, whatever he likes to do.

00:33:59.760 And to show him that, yeah, this is, you don't, you're not less masculine because you want to do these things.

00:34:04.880 And I have one friend who said, yeah, he had three brothers who were all into cars, cars and sports, and he was not.

00:34:11.340 He liked music and cooking.

00:34:12.940 So he was always left with mom.

00:34:14.700 And it wasn't the mother was domineering, and it wasn't really that the father was neglectful.

00:34:20.700 He was just doing a natural kind of thing.

00:34:23.100 And a woman told me a story that she had noticed that one of her sons, when he was around 11, 12 or so, started showing some effeminacy.

00:34:32.460 And she was very concerned.

00:34:35.280 And she realized that her husband paid him almost no attention.

00:34:40.180 And she actually confronted her husband.

00:34:42.180 She says, I'm not certain you look like your son.

00:34:44.400 She says, you spend almost no time with him.

00:34:46.220 You've got all your interests.

00:34:47.800 And he said, well, I'm not interested in his stuff.

00:34:50.700 And she said, well, you better be. 0.99

00:34:52.680 She said, because if he turns out to be gay, I'm blaming you. 0.99

00:34:56.420 And so the father did a 180-degree turn. 0.97

00:34:59.440 And he just started doing whatever the boy liked.

00:35:02.360 He was into some sort of, you know, what do you call it, indie music and that sort of thing.

00:35:06.320 And so he wasn't at all interested, but he came interested.

00:35:09.400 He went to the concert with his sons.

00:35:11.240 He did all the things, the gaming, whatever his son liked to do, he did with him.

00:35:15.540 And then he brought his son with him to his workplace and introduced him to people and included him in the things that he would do to show that I'm not ashamed of my son.

00:35:24.800 You know, this is my son.

00:35:26.200 And he does things with me because he's my son.

00:35:29.340 And she said, after a couple of years, the two of them, the room would light, you know, one would walk in the room, the other one would total light up, dad's home or my son's home.

00:35:38.460 And he said, no sign of effemacy after that.

00:35:41.060 And then you do start to say things to them.

00:35:42.720 And you do have to do this kind of thing.

00:35:44.440 I think she's interested in you.

00:35:46.180 You know, that little girl over there, she's looking at you.

00:35:47.920 I think she's interested in you.

00:35:48.960 And they said, me, me, yeah, you.

00:35:51.280 Because one of the big problems with homosexuality is that these boys do feel different, different interests, different lists, maybe a different, a slight body build, whatever. 0.98

00:36:01.660 And they think no girls will be interested in them.

00:36:03.940 And then some predator comes along.

00:36:06.100 And the predator is interested.

00:36:07.880 And so now he thinks, oh, these are the people I attract.

00:36:11.280 I don't attract girls. 0.99

00:36:14.020 Homosexual men are interested in me. 0.99

00:36:16.000 And then you get introduced into this physically, sexually, and you can get aroused. 0.99

00:36:20.920 And all of a sudden, this is who you think you are because this is now your sexual reality.

00:36:26.920 That one seems to be off limits to me.

00:36:30.260 They're not interested in me.

00:36:31.680 And increasingly, I'm less interested in them because I can't beat out these other guys because now people see me this way.

00:36:38.480 I feel this way.

00:36:39.540 They're not conscious of all of this.

00:36:40.820 But this is really what is working in their thought processes.

00:36:45.780 It's a beautiful thing, though, the intentional giving of father to son or daughter or whoever,

00:36:54.160 but not following your own wants and desires, but giving of yourself.

00:37:00.980 It's a great concept.

00:37:03.820 It makes such sense.

00:37:05.340 But it's a great thing to hear because to think to do that isn't often thought of.

00:37:12.560 Yeah, it's not intentional to the often, but to become intentional.

00:37:16.560 And fathers are so important for their girls as well.

00:37:20.260 That fathers are so important.

00:37:22.060 And these are not hard things to do.

00:37:24.000 They're natural things to do.

00:37:25.280 As you say, once you say, oh, gee, I'm missing out here.

00:37:27.940 I should be doing more of this.

00:37:28.960 It's not hard to do them.

00:37:30.100 You don't have to force yourself.

00:37:31.800 So, one thing with girls is, again, often it can happen that, again, they don't think boys are interested in them.

00:37:37.980 They think they can't compete with other girls. 0.93

00:37:40.280 Or boys have been mean to them.

00:37:42.040 They've bullied them. 0.97

00:37:43.320 Or they've been sexually involved with men who just boys, young men, who just trash them. 0.99

00:37:50.060 They have sex with them, and they're gone. 0.99

00:37:52.080 And so they think, well, men are just use you. 0.99

00:37:54.900 All right, so, I mean, that whole notion about date nights with your daughter, you know, and father-daughter dances and this sort of thing is that I'm going to show her how a good man treats a woman.

00:38:06.460 And I'm going to get her used to this behavior.

00:38:09.420 All right?

00:38:09.660 This is, if a guy is not treating you like I am with the respect and et cetera, interest in you, not just, you know, touching you, but listening to you and being with you, that's a precious thing for me.

00:38:23.880 It's going to be precious for some other man. 0.81

00:38:25.500 Again, they can feel like they're trash. 0.98

00:38:29.080 All right? 0.99

00:38:29.300 They also need to honor the mother big time.

00:38:32.380 All right?

00:38:32.560 They have to show that their mothers are precious to them and a woman is precious to them.

00:38:37.500 And honoring the mother and saying, oh, that's how a man treats a woman.

00:38:41.240 Because some women who are lesbians are honestly, they can be very attractive. 1.00

00:38:47.340 They can be very competent.

00:38:50.180 All right?

00:38:50.980 But they think women are mousy. 1.00

00:38:53.940 All right?

00:38:54.140 And their father is the exciting man in their life.

00:38:57.140 He's the one that does things.

00:38:58.520 He's the one that.

00:38:59.520 So I'm going to identify more with my dad.

00:39:03.120 And so I sort of need a wife like my dad needed a wife. 0.75

00:39:06.320 And so, you know, instead of saying, you know, again, some women are stay-at-home mothers and very happily so and very competent and all of this stuff.

00:39:15.400 And other women do more things than that because that's how they're wired. 1.00

00:39:20.500 And so to let women know that you can't, it's not only the, and I am all for stay-at-home mothers.

00:39:28.200 And I think most women should be stay-at-home mothers. 1.00

00:39:31.080 But there's a great book by Edith Stein on, maybe it's just something about women. 1.00

00:39:38.360 Anyway, she identifies like four or five different kinds of women. 1.00

00:39:42.220 All right?

00:39:42.360 It's very interesting. 1.00

00:39:43.260 And on the far end, no, I'll say on the very far end is the very foolish, silly, altogether boy-crazy girl. 1.00

00:39:50.520 You've got to watch that one closely. 1.00

00:39:52.620 All right?

00:39:53.160 Because, I mean, she's just a fluff head. 1.00

00:39:55.480 And some of them can become very, when I was at the University of Dallas and I had students come in, a young woman, and I was her faculty advisor.

00:40:03.780 I said, oh, my gosh, this girl is just such a little fluff head. 1.00

00:40:05.860 And I'm sitting there saying, why is she here?

00:40:09.200 I just can't imagine that this, why did this girl come here?

00:40:13.660 She seems like a total sorority type, et cetera. 1.00

00:40:16.580 Well, another year and a half later, she was a totally different person.

00:40:20.480 She had gotten a really good education.

00:40:22.460 It had formed her mind.

00:40:23.780 She enjoyed discussing ideas, et cetera.

00:40:25.780 So it's not that a total fluff head, maybe I misjudged her to start with, of course, but that was my impression.

00:40:31.920 So the total fluff head can become something other than that, but you've got to work on it.

00:40:37.320 And then there's the woman who's just, again, I mean, I know some of these women, a lot of them are academics or businesswomen, you know, extremely capable.

00:40:46.640 They would sort of die at home.

00:40:48.720 And somehow they manage to do everything, you know.

00:40:52.280 And you say, okay, at home she'd probably get divorced, right? 0.99

00:40:57.500 Do this and that, different times, different ways.

00:41:00.180 So to recognize that. 0.89

00:41:01.960 So women are very complicated. 1.00

00:41:04.720 Even, you know, you take the jock and you take the academic for males.

00:41:09.000 And there's more and similar than different in so many ways, you know.

00:41:13.100 So where was I?

00:41:14.060 Just with regard to women, you know, what would be the route for or the way to direct them? 1.00

00:41:26.560 Is it that's where the mother has to step up in a way? 1.00

00:41:30.160 You said the father too, but is it the mother's role or, you know, so again, similar situation, young teen, even preteen, whatever.

00:41:41.660 But they're watching this stuff, they're getting, and you have some indication, you know, the school says or whatever.

00:41:50.120 And this time you're dealing with a girl.

00:41:52.340 Is there any prescriptions?

00:41:54.180 Because that, I thought, was really beautiful for the young boy who's going offside, for the dad to get engaged that way.

00:42:03.320 Phenomenal advice.

00:42:04.240 I mean, it's just really important.

00:42:06.560 Is there such a thing for girls as well? 1.00

00:42:08.060 I don't know as much, but this is what I would guess from some things.

00:42:12.340 I mean, I think both men and women, husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, they need to be so complimentary to each other and about each other with their children.

00:42:24.580 The father has to keep saying, what a wonderful wife I married and what she does for us.

00:42:29.660 Same with the wife. 1.00

00:42:30.880 My mother did this.

00:42:31.940 It was so great.

00:42:33.200 It was always, we're trying to please my dad.

00:42:35.220 You know, I remember one big thing was buttering his toast.

00:42:39.060 And he wanted every corner of his toast buttered.

00:42:42.820 When I was a brother, he was a teenager.

00:42:44.280 Why the heck can't he butter his own toast?

00:42:46.800 He's your father.

00:42:48.380 Your father has done so many things for us.

00:42:50.340 You don't even begin to understand what your father, if he wants, it doesn't matter how he wants his toast.

00:42:54.400 We do it how he wants it.

00:42:56.440 Whoa.

00:42:56.840 And I remember one big achievement when I was, I think it was in eighth grade, my father loved banana cream pie with big meringue all over it.

00:43:06.760 I made it successfully.

00:43:08.100 This was like, this was one of the high moments of my life.

00:43:11.380 You know, I made a pie that my dad loved.

00:43:13.420 So this whole idea that, again, we honor your father and you speak well of your husband and you speak well of other men and you speak badly of bad men.

00:43:24.840 You know, you say, okay, yeah, that guy, yeah, I know he's handsome and he's dashing and he's this.

00:43:29.200 But I hate to tell you what he does, you know, and you say, I hope he changes.

00:43:33.260 We'll pray for him.

00:43:34.340 But I know he's very attractive, but be careful.

00:43:36.800 You know, appearances and reality are apart.

00:43:39.240 I think there has to be a constant chatter by wives to their daughters about what kind of man they want to marry. 0.96

00:43:47.820 And we hope it's a lot like their father.

00:43:49.660 I hope you get as lucky as I did.

00:43:51.600 I got this wonderful man.

00:43:53.660 And you see that young man over there?

00:43:55.080 Do you see how he treats his mother and his younger brothers and sisters?

00:43:58.500 Do you see how he's helping?

00:43:59.680 Do you see, that's a good man.

00:44:01.860 And so you build their view of reality.

00:44:05.680 Because if you're always trashing men, if you're always saying men are irresponsible, men are this, men are that, it's like, why would she be interested?

00:44:14.760 All right?

00:44:15.220 And so is to shape the, I mean, I always say my parents had, I don't, I'm not saying these are the best modes of parenting.

00:44:23.920 I'm sure there's better modes.

00:44:25.280 But my mother did what I call a stream of consciousness chatter all the time, you know, which was, as I said, it was terrific.

00:44:32.440 You learn so much.

00:44:33.520 And my dad was sort of similar, but his was more like, hers was very positive.

00:44:37.000 Hers was always like, you know, this is good.

00:44:39.420 My dad was more like ranting and raving.

00:44:41.360 And it was sort of like, can you believe that man?

00:44:43.560 He takes up collection at church.

00:44:45.800 And he's cheating on his wife.

00:44:46.840 We all know that.

00:44:47.820 Who does he think he's fooling?

00:44:49.160 Do you think he's fooling God?

00:44:50.180 You know, and then he'd say, you know, I'm telling you, you know, he'd see something would trick him.

00:44:55.740 He'd say a woman, a girl walking down the street who was immodestly clad. 1.00

00:45:01.900 And he would say, where's her father?

00:45:05.340 He said, where is that girl's father?

00:45:07.200 No father who loved her daughter would let her out like that.

00:45:10.440 Well, we didn't have to fight that battle.

00:45:12.300 I mean, we knew right there.

00:45:14.340 Don't push dad on this immodesty thing because he's already let us know.

00:45:18.460 He was a wonderful man.

00:45:19.580 And he was a funny man.

00:45:20.500 He was great fun to be around.

00:45:21.800 But the biggest teaching moments I remember for him was his expressing very manly disapproval.

00:45:29.560 Like, you know, even things like, you know, he's shaking his head.

00:45:33.040 He's sort of driving around.

00:45:33.920 He says, don't ever tell that first lie.

00:45:35.900 What are you talking about?

00:45:36.900 He says, if a man lies to his wife about where he was last night, it's downhill from there.

00:45:41.460 He said, don't tell any lies.

00:45:43.860 Because it's just, whoa, where did that come from?

00:45:46.540 So nobody was thinking about.

00:45:48.180 But he was very principled that way.

00:45:51.600 And not, again, he loved to play every game with us that you could play with.

00:45:55.680 A lot of fun.

00:45:56.600 But the teaching moments seemed to be the ones where he really expressed strong principles to us.

00:46:03.140 With a lot of force, you know.

00:46:10.400 It's an interesting thing.

00:46:11.480 I was once told and employed this, actually, because it was very successful.

00:46:17.560 I think I read or something that if your kids are going after their mom, you know, and really saying something disrespectful, to forcefully say, I mean, not in a mean, nasty way, but to forcefully say, don't you dare talk to my wife like this. 0.99

00:46:39.260 Yes, exactly.

00:46:39.880 I thought that was stunning because it separates the relationship from the kids for a second to make them go, oh, there's a superior relationship here.

00:46:49.300 Yeah.

00:46:50.120 Husband to wife, which is not, that's where we come from, but it's not us yet.

00:46:55.520 And it really stunned the kids, and psychologically it made total sense that it would because that, but I did that a number of times when it was warranted, and it really, it's striking for kids.

00:47:09.540 It's magic, and you're absolutely right.

00:47:11.560 It just says, we're a unit, and we're together, and don't fool around here.

00:47:17.280 Yeah, no, I think it's very powerful.

00:47:19.040 Yeah, beautiful thing.

00:47:20.200 In terms of healing from this predicament that many people find themselves in now, in terms of getting over homosexuality, or if you want to say getting over, dealing with it in a way that you can live as a Catholic, that you can live in the state of grace, what's your best advice for that?

00:47:44.800 Well, I'm very blessed, honestly, in that I'm fairly close to four or five men that have gone through this struggle.

00:47:54.200 Good, good men.

00:47:55.400 They don't want to be homosexual. 1.00

00:47:57.040 There's no way.

00:47:58.320 And I'm pretty convinced that two things, several things on regard to this.

00:48:03.220 But one is certainly that most men, if you could wave a magic wand for homosexual and say they're going to be fully heterosexual tomorrow, they'd say, please do it. 0.90

00:48:14.720 Do it.

00:48:15.920 You know, do it.

00:48:16.820 I want to be free of this.

00:48:18.200 The second was they never chose it.

00:48:20.180 All right?

00:48:20.440 They never really chose it.

00:48:22.060 It's not that they got up in the morning and said, again, I could be heterosexual, I could be homosexual. 0.96

00:48:26.880 It's much more that, as I mentioned, that process of feeling different, of feeling that I'm not masculine enough, feeling and then something happens, whether it's predation or whether it's homosexual porn, whether it's just fooling around with another guy. 0.61

00:48:43.440 Something triggers something in your system where all of a sudden you sexualize this attraction to masculinity that you're finding in these other places and you don't find in yourself. 0.77

00:48:56.640 All right?

00:48:57.360 And so now this seems like these are your people.

00:49:00.460 All right?

00:49:00.760 And most of us, if we're touched in a certain way, we will respond.

00:49:06.140 All right?

00:49:06.380 And then there's a whole way in which women are, for some reason, they're not in their world, all right, except maybe a sympathetic listener, but not as someone who is a sexual attraction. 0.55

00:49:19.940 Okay. So, and then many of them, again, they sort of get into this not knowing how to get out of it.

00:49:29.420 And so they sort of get more and more dragged into it.

00:49:31.520 They're afraid to tell anybody.

00:49:33.180 They think their parents will be furious.

00:49:36.280 They just think they're in this lonely place where they think this is where they belong.

00:49:41.240 They don't necessarily want to be there, but they don't know how to get out of that.

00:49:44.180 But I read one story.

00:49:46.260 A man named Ken Williams, he's written a book.

00:49:48.240 It's a wonderful book.

00:49:49.280 He's not a Catholic. 0.73

00:49:50.580 But as a small boy, he was, he said, even as a young boy, like seven or eight, his family was very religious.

00:49:56.260 He said, I accepted Jesus as my Savior. 0.75

00:49:58.920 And he said, when I was eight, some friends, they found some homosexual porn. 0.87

00:50:03.260 And he said, we looked at it, he said, it was the most grotesque stuff he'd ever looked at.

00:50:06.260 But being little boys, they started acting out some of it.

00:50:09.900 All right?

00:50:10.140 So that right then, it started to change him.

00:50:12.680 Like, this is what sex is.

00:50:14.280 It's doing this.

00:50:15.780 And then he said, at one point, he had a friend come over.

00:50:19.060 They spent the night, and the friend started touching him.

00:50:24.280 And he said, all of a sudden, he's starting to feel very, very different.

00:50:28.540 Again, why would a boy do this to me?

00:50:30.380 This must be who I am.

00:50:31.940 Again, he was different.

00:50:32.900 He said, I was more sensitive than others.

00:50:34.800 He said, I really like to talk about deep issues.

00:50:38.300 And my guy friends mostly just wanted to walk in cars and sports.

00:50:42.520 He said, so I ended up talking to women a lot as though I was part of their company, all right, because they wanted to talk about the things I wanted to talk about.

00:51:21.900 And then I decided to show it to my youth director at my church.

00:51:26.700 And he said, he read it, and he said, this is not who you are.

00:51:30.360 He said, you're not gay.

00:51:31.800 And he still hadn't recognized how it happened to him.

00:51:34.320 He was just writing out what he felt, but he couldn't trace it back.

00:51:38.420 All right?

00:51:38.580 And so the youth director took him to the pastor of the church.

00:51:43.800 He said, you know, we don't really know what to do about this, but you're one of us, and we're going to help you with this.

00:51:49.040 So he had a—and one thing is, another thing that's almost universally true, is that men with same-sex attraction think God hates them, all right, because God would never have let them—if he loved them, he never would have let them become gay. 0.69

00:52:03.180 That's number one. 0.95

00:52:04.520 And secondly, they're doing depraved stuff. 0.94

00:52:07.260 They know this is called an abomination by God.

00:52:10.080 So how could God love somebody who's engaging in such depraved actions, all right?

00:52:15.520 So—and they don't love themselves, because they say, why do I do this stuff that I don't want to do, all right?

00:52:21.600 We all feel that way.

00:52:23.020 I mean, I eat too much, and every time I eat too much or spend too much time on Twitter, I think, why do I do these things that I don't want to do, all right?

00:52:32.040 So that's how—they're very negative in their internal speech, you know, and they're trying to be gay and happy, and, you know, but inside there's some really unpleasant self-talk going on.

00:52:46.720 And so this young man was assigned a masculine older man who would have breakfast with him every Saturday morning for a very long time and talk to him about God and talk to him about how God loved him in spite of all this.

00:53:00.340 And, you know, biblical stories of people who did wrong things, and God forgave them and loved them and all of this.

00:53:05.340 And so he started being able to resist his temptations more and felt more comfortable going to church groups.

00:53:15.760 And at a certain point—I mean, there were some falls in between all sorts of stories, but there was some woman that he just thought was so attractive, young woman.

00:53:24.360 And he said, oh, she's so attractive. 0.96

00:53:25.880 She looks like she'd be fun to know.

00:53:26.940 And so he started talking to her and getting to know her and said, well, maybe she'll go out with me.

00:53:31.880 And he asked her out.

00:53:33.240 And before long, he fell in love and she fell in love.

00:53:37.340 And she knew about his past, and she understood and forgave him.

00:53:41.340 And that's—not that many men can become heterosexual who have been in a homosexual lifestyle.

00:53:49.120 But, first of all, they have to go through some healing about, you know, not about their sexuality, but, again, their gender.

00:53:57.120 They're—I'm masculine, and God does love me, and I'm worth something.

00:54:01.940 And he said, I was prepared to try to live a life of just celibate chastity.

00:54:08.640 But some of these men can fall in love.

00:54:11.160 They don't fall in love with—like, most men are attracted to a lot of women and even almost find every woman a little bit attractive because they like the feminine.

00:54:20.580 But these men, that doesn't happen.

00:54:23.460 What happens is they fall in love with one woman, and then the sexual attraction follows.

00:54:28.000 They're falling in love, all right?

00:54:29.840 And then just like heterosexual men, you start to concentrate on this person.

00:54:36.380 I mean, again, most men are attracted to many women, but they don't want to lose this wife.

00:54:40.420 They don't want to lose this family.

00:54:42.320 They're going to shut all that stuff out.

00:54:44.600 Well, that's the same thing he does with any other attraction he has.

00:54:48.180 He says, you know, a man keeps a picture of his wife and kids on the desk for a reason.

00:54:53.220 So when some bombshell walks in, he looks there, and he looks there, and he says, wait a second, this.

00:54:57.840 You know, and it's the same thing with these guys.

00:55:00.800 It's like if I start going down the old path, I might this—it might be tempted.

00:55:07.480 But the big thing is there is their relationship with Christ, all right?

00:55:12.440 It really—it requires a radical reliance upon Christ.

00:55:17.320 And my understanding is we're all born with disordered appetites, every one of us.

00:55:23.980 That's original sin.

00:55:25.400 But we are designed by nature.

00:55:27.420 Our intellect and will are designed by nature to order those passions.

00:55:31.580 Now, if we get God's grace all the better, all the easier, but I mean, Socrates and others did a pretty good job

00:55:37.140 without at least having any sacramental access to grace.

00:55:40.520 Grace is everywhere.

00:55:41.400 But after Christ graces readily, we know where to get it.

00:55:47.180 We can go and get it.

00:55:49.500 But so you need to—but so we have all these disordered desires, and our intellect and will are designed to order those.

00:55:59.040 That's how it was in the—for the fall.

00:56:01.520 So we can restore that to some extent.

00:56:04.560 The person with homosexual desires, Thomas Aquinas says, and we all know in a sense, these are intrinsically disordered. 0.87

00:56:10.340 These are unnatural.

00:56:11.400 This is not something that the average person—most everybody struggles with wanting to eat too much, sleep too much, spend too much, etc.

00:56:20.660 A small percentage struggle with homosexual desires.

00:56:24.460 Why?

00:56:25.000 Because something has to happen to you.

00:56:26.920 It's not something that comes naturally.

00:56:29.040 It's something that—it's like a Doberman has come into your system, and you're trying to control this out-of-control Doberman, some monsters in your system.

00:56:37.460 You're not designed, honestly, to control that.

00:56:40.240 So you need Jesus.

00:56:41.960 You need him big time.

00:56:43.640 And he has to come in, and he's going to fight that devil.

00:56:46.000 He's going to fight that.

00:56:47.420 And you, by leaning on Jesus, are going to fight together, and you can fight it.

00:56:52.200 Without that, I don't think you can.

00:56:54.420 And so every—and I've asked all the homosexual men I know, do you know of anybody that's been able to live a chaste life without making a radical commitment to Jesus? 0.88

00:57:06.460 And they say no.

00:57:07.820 Right?

00:57:08.180 It can't be done.

00:57:09.980 And so that's why they need to be—not to use the cliché, but they need to be welcomed into religious communities.

00:57:17.100 You know, God can do this for you.

00:57:20.680 Yeah?

00:57:21.100 God can do it for you.

00:57:22.040 Tell us about daily Mass.

00:57:23.920 I know you've experienced a lot of these men who—

00:57:25.780 Yeah.

00:57:26.120 It has to be all of that.

00:57:27.780 It has to be daily Mass, daily Rosary, spiritual reading, staying out of temptation, as we all need to do way more than we think.

00:57:35.800 You know, I don't know when it was, a long time ago, but, you know, I just decided to stop listening except to news reports in the car.

00:57:44.100 Because you never know what music's going to be, and you never know what it's going to do to you.

00:57:47.600 You know, you can't choose your own.

00:57:49.120 So you've got to sort of be very careful about what temptations—you know, again, this guy wouldn't go to a bookstore.

00:57:56.000 I know this Ken Williams said that when he would go to bookstores in airports, there would be pictures of bodybuilding magazines.

00:58:04.640 He said that was a trigger for me.

00:58:06.520 He said I couldn't go to bookstores anymore.

00:58:08.220 I couldn't—you think all these things, I—this is—you put severe boundaries around yourself.

00:58:16.300 And, you know, it's just like anybody who's trying to diet.

00:58:18.440 It has to be out of the house.

00:58:19.860 If you're an alcoholic, yeah, get it out of the house.

00:58:22.800 Get it out of your life.

00:58:24.320 But most of us can't do that without God's grace, and you have to call upon grace.

00:58:28.560 And don't let me do this.

00:58:30.280 Don't let me—I mean, for me, I—it's a crazy example.

00:58:34.500 But I become kind of a—with old age again, a kind of impulsive shopper, you know?

00:58:39.840 My mother used to want to enter every publishing house sweepstakes. 1.00

00:58:44.320 You know, my dad had to get to the mail before she did because he didn't know what she was going to do.

00:58:48.220 Well, I don't have a husband to get to the mail, so I have to—I have to pray, you know?

00:58:52.100 I'm an Aldi.

00:58:52.960 I'm an Aldi bargain.

00:58:54.220 Don't let me buy anything I don't need, you know?

00:58:58.180 It's—it's a small temptation, but it's real.

00:59:00.580 I come up with all this stuff, then what the heck did I buy this for?

00:59:03.760 Okay, so that relying upon Jesus minute by minute, all right?

00:59:09.200 And minute by minute, and we all should.

00:59:11.660 And that's—there's a strange gift to homosexuality because they can't manage to stay away from mortal sin without this daily reliance upon the Lord. 0.98

00:59:24.560 And that's what we all want.

00:59:26.140 We all want to develop a life that puts us in daily reliance, moment by moment, reliance on the Lord.

00:59:33.180 And those that I know of successfully do it.

00:59:35.920 You know, they say, yeah, it's the only way.

00:59:38.360 It's the only way.

00:59:39.940 You might know Paul Darrow, beautiful man.

00:59:43.500 He's had thousands of partners, thousands, he says.

00:59:46.420 And he said—and he tells his story, you want to weep.

00:59:51.000 And he says, I fell so in love with the Eucharist.

00:59:54.500 He said, I don't want to do anything that would make me not worthy of receiving the Eucharist.

01:00:00.500 You want to say, wow, you know?

01:00:02.940 And it's just like if I do this, I can't receive the Eucharist.

01:00:07.760 And I backslide.

01:00:08.880 I mean, it's not just that I can go to confession.

01:00:11.040 As we all know, you go to confession, but that doesn't mean you're over the battle.

01:00:13.680 Well, if you've been engaged in sin, you're relieved from that, but you've still got the battle.

01:00:18.680 So stay out of it.

01:00:20.140 Stay out of sin.

01:00:21.440 Absolutely beautiful.

01:00:23.620 Janet, thank you for helping so many people in the most difficult things.

01:00:28.980 Thank you for being a stalwart defender of the truth in probably the hardest season for the faith ever.

01:00:35.460 God bless you.

01:00:36.200 Where can people follow you?

01:00:37.940 I live in a little cottage by a lake, and I'm kind of fading away.

01:00:44.220 But, I mean, I publish a lot in Crisis Magazine.

01:00:48.700 I've been doing a lot of interviews like this.

01:00:50.980 I really enjoy this.

01:00:52.560 And so there's a lot of, you type Janet Smith in Interview or something, and you'll get dozens.

01:00:57.400 And so I don't really have a postulate of my own, in a sense.

01:01:04.040 I don't have a business.

01:01:06.180 I'm not smart that way.

01:01:08.300 And so, you know, and the few times I've tried to do it with other people, it hasn't worked at all.

01:01:13.500 I'm very naive about, con men can con me.

01:01:17.080 And so, what can I say?

01:01:20.320 You know, people say you're, they do, they say things like, oh, you're so smart.

01:01:23.560 I said, the only thing I'm smart about is what the church teaches.

01:01:27.500 I said, I have no wisdom of my own.

01:01:29.660 It's just, if the church teaches, I know it's true.

01:01:33.320 And so I look deeper and deeper and deeper into the reasons why it's true.

01:01:37.940 I think that's the gift that God has given me.

01:01:39.960 But as far as managing my own life well or anything like that, forget it.

01:01:43.900 It's all grace.

01:01:44.800 It's done very well to help many, many people.

01:01:48.280 God bless you.

01:01:48.940 Thank you.

01:01:49.320 Thank you.

01:01:49.860 Thank you, Tom.

01:01:50.760 God bless you and God bless all of you.

01:01:53.900 And we'll see you next time.

The John-Henry Westen Show - July 23, 2024

The Way to Overcome Abuse-Caused Homosexuality - Daily Mass and Regular Confession

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