The John-Henry Westen Show - October 14, 2026


This Catholic mother of 8 had 2 priests and 1 nun- here’s how she did it

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Open Letter to J.K. Rowling: Why She Must Become Catholic

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48 minutes

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185.27

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9,046

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532

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8

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2

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8

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
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Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 He said, now children, I want you to know, someday the mass is going to be taken away from you.
00:00:05.880 And I want all of you to know this, because it will be up to you to find the church and find
00:00:11.420 the true mass when that day happens. Vatican II is still 20 plus years away. The mass was still
00:00:17.220 traditional and in Latin and everyone was kneeling. Where did this priest get the idea in 1940 to
00:00:22.200 announce to a bunch of innocent children, the mass is going to be taken away from you?
00:00:25.720 so I got kind of a sad story to tell you I had this great interview planned
00:00:33.020 it was of a mom who was 93 years old she had eight kids just like I do two of those kids
00:00:42.320 became Roman Catholic priests both of them traditional priests she had one daughter who
00:00:47.220 became a nun and I actually had her on video about over a little over a month ago and we're
00:00:55.540 all set up to go and uh the just the internet connection wasn't good enough on her end so we
00:01:02.600 rescheduled we're going to do it later and that time she passed away i still want to bring you
00:01:08.600 her story because it's absolutely fascinating and we're going to tell it with her son one of the
00:01:15.340 priest, Father Lawrence Novak. He is a priest of the Society of St. Pius X. He has this book out
00:01:25.260 about his mom called A Chicago Mom. And it is so stunning. She was married right at the heart of
00:01:35.340 the crisis, 1958. And she battled all the battles that we all did for our kids instead of going to
00:01:44.720 catholic schools which were then corrupt already she went to public and then even baptist schools
00:01:51.520 but this story is fascinating father novak welcome to the program thank you john it's good to be here
00:01:56.840 let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross father if you could lead us in the name of
00:02:00.300 the father and of the star and the holy ghost um amen thank you father okay so this has been a long
00:02:06.240 time coming i met you first uh in a con at the consecrations of the four bishops uh with the
00:02:13.000 society. Now, I was fascinated by your story because you've got a book out on it, which is
00:02:17.980 really beautiful, but you are from a family of eight. And in that family of eight, there are
00:02:24.560 two priests and one sister, one Dominican sister. That's absolutely stunning. Tell us a little bit
00:02:31.240 about your family. Just give us a nutshell first, and then we'll go more into depth.
00:02:35.640 Thanks be to God. You know, that's a real blessing to have the three vocations in the family.
00:02:40.100 a nutshell would be my parents especially my mother was always a fighter in a good sense
00:02:48.360 she could see a lot of that modernism coming from way back and she always made it a point that we
00:02:54.860 would try to avoid that modernism and stay with the traditional mass and then eventually as the
00:03:00.620 years rolled on some of us got the idea that well if we're not going to continue the the fight which
00:03:06.300 is actually the love for God, the way she did, well, then no one's going to continue it. And so
00:03:11.720 several of us responded to vocations at that time. And that's not to downplay the other members of
00:03:19.400 the family who have made very good Catholic families also. Unfortunately, we were actually
00:03:23.880 going to interview you with your mom, but your mom's passed away very recently. And this is a
00:03:29.360 woman who fought for the faith from the early days, who had two priest sons and one sister,
00:03:36.540 families, all children that are practicing the faith. She just passed away. Our condolences to
00:03:42.080 you. Tell us about her passing because the passing of people who are given to our Lord,
00:03:47.120 it's a sadness for us, but it's certainly not a sadness for them.
00:03:49.740 You're right about that. I've been referring to her passing as a victory more than anything
00:03:55.140 because her life is so dedicated to God, it's so dedicated to the church.
00:04:02.740 In a way, I was very happy for her when she could pass on to the next life,
00:04:07.040 and let's say it this way, and get into the real life,
00:04:09.940 which is the reward for everything she did while she was here on earth.
00:04:14.340 So to give you some details about her passing,
00:04:17.700 I saw my mother quickly for just about two or three days back in August
00:04:22.120 when I was en route from my last assignment, which was in Asia,
00:04:26.440 to this assignment, which is in Texas.
00:04:28.240 That's a big change.
00:04:29.360 I was home with her for a couple of days.
00:04:31.600 We wanted to do the interview, but that didn't work out
00:04:33.820 because of technical difficulties.
00:04:36.720 We went to a few restaurants, and we did a few things together.
00:04:41.380 And then my sister brought me to the airport on the Friday,
00:04:46.520 and my mother always comes to the door to say goodbye to us,
00:04:49.400 you know, wave us on our way.
00:04:51.780 This time, I would say a little bit more than ever, more than before.
00:04:54.540 She was waving goodbye, but she was crying.
00:04:57.240 And that's not common for my mother. 0.92
00:04:59.000 She usually hides all that stuff.
00:05:00.860 But this time she was crying, which is a beautiful thing.
00:05:03.580 So she and I continued our contact throughout the month of August and into September.
00:05:11.420 And it was a curious thing.
00:05:13.120 We call each other twice a week.
00:05:15.140 Usually I call her at a certain time, certain days, certain time, et cetera.
00:05:19.800 But for some reason, I was not able to call her anymore because they had some horrible
00:05:24.340 storms in the Chicago area and her telephone wasn't ringing anymore.
00:05:28.860 So she knew the times.
00:05:30.780 She had to call me on Wednesday and Saturday and we were still connecting.
00:05:34.480 I was still answering the phone over here.
00:05:36.760 And that's beautiful.
00:05:37.520 So I had to go for retreat on a Sunday and then I was gone for a week.
00:05:41.320 But I suppose that was the last conversation I had with my mother, which was beautiful.
00:05:46.020 I can't even remember what we talked about.
00:05:48.020 uh but uh i was gone for a week uh i was just before i started the retreat here it is uh on
00:05:54.880 the monday i received the message that my mother had broken her hip and she's 93 years old so um
00:06:01.120 uh we always know that hips can be very complicated uh so the next day monday she was she had surgery
00:06:08.220 and reconstructing reconstructive surgery uh which was very successful they did a very good job
00:06:14.160 But then there were many complications after that, having to do with swallowing, especially.
00:06:20.000 And then the kidneys, even something with the heart, all kinds of complications that came up.
00:06:28.080 And where the truth is, there is God.
00:06:31.140 The world is basically going the way of the church and vice versa.
00:06:36.660 Everyone who's being named a bishop is being named because he's a nice guy.
00:06:42.500 Does he have the Catholic faith?
00:06:43.900 well that's not really important. He's nice. I started studying the early church and I realized
00:06:48.660 wow the church was all centered around the Eucharist. God has sent again the Blessed
00:06:55.560 Virgin Mary to ask us through an imploring and loving voice to convert while there is still time.
00:07:02.640 Saint Peter the Apostle on the first Pentecost Sunday to tell these pious Jews who came to
00:07:08.080 Jerusalem in pilgrimage that they need to come into the church and be baptized. And the faithful
00:07:13.420 were crying out, blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord. Peace in heaven and glory in
00:07:19.000 the highest. So the Pharisees complained, tell him to shut up. And Jesus said in reply, I tell you, 0.98
00:07:25.040 if they keep silent, the stones will cry out. In other words, the truth will never be silenced.
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00:07:46.760 in the footsteps of the shepherd children in the land that Our Lady graced over a hundred years
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00:08:06.140 my brother father kenneth who is a priest and very diligent he made several visits to the
00:08:16.320 hospital while she was there and i think he gave her the last rites either on wednesday or thursday
00:08:20.840 of that week you know for the people receiving the last rites for extreme unction they've got
00:08:25.080 to do a mental gear shift there that um you know i'm here i'm here i am in the hospital they're
00:08:30.060 doing a good job with me but just in case they don't i need the last rites and you got to get
00:08:34.360 yourself kind of um you know you have to change that mental uh channel there which she did and
00:08:40.600 she received the last rites very well with a nice big smile on her face and she felt very good after
00:08:45.380 it was all finished felt in a sense of her soul was very much at peace you know so that was about
00:08:50.320 wednesday or thursday of that week and then i finished my retreat on saturday or sunday i got
00:08:58.360 back to this house in texas on monday and right away on tuesday morning i left for home and uh i
00:09:03.720 got home around 4.30 in the afternoon. I should say it this way. My mother went home on hospice
00:09:10.360 on Saturday after the week in the hospital. I went home and I saw her on Tuesday in the afternoon.
00:09:18.840 She was no longer able to speak by that time. She knew I was there. She had her eyes closed,
00:09:23.900 but she grabbed my hand and we were communicating in one way or another. And a lot of family members
00:09:29.540 were there and we kind of thought it was going to be a couple of weeks of hospice before she passed
00:09:34.240 on or maybe one month or two months or something like that. My father had the same situation about
00:09:38.920 four or five years ago. He did about two months of hospice and then passed on. So no, my mother
00:09:44.560 was there just three or four days of hospice. I saw her at 430 in the afternoon, spent several
00:09:49.080 hours with her. People were visiting. It was time for everyone to go to bed. I decided to stay up a
00:09:55.500 little later because she was kind of moving a lot. I'm told that people in her situation tend to move
00:09:59.920 a lot through the night. So I sat by her, thought I was going to spend the night with her. My other
00:10:04.120 sister was with her on the other side of her sleeping. She's a nurse. And then some of her
00:10:09.020 family members were also in the room. And I was just kind of comforting, consoling my mother
00:10:16.480 while she was kind of making these plaintive sounds. And no, her breathing got farther and
00:10:22.140 farther between. And I think she felt very comforted that I was there with her. And finally,
00:10:26.940 she stopped breathing. And I went to see my sister, Ruthann, the nurse who was just on the
00:10:31.500 other side. And I said, I think mother just stopped breathing. She said, no, it can't be.
00:10:34.960 She can't be. Anyway, she took her pulse and checked for vitals and there was nothing. So
00:10:39.780 she said, no, oh, that's so fast. And then she said, but really, I'm happy for mother that she
00:10:45.060 didn't have to suffer a long time. She got her last rites and was able to move on. And then my
00:10:50.220 sister started disconnecting all the tubes and so forth. And that was how my mother passed. We made
00:10:55.840 the phone calls to other family members. And in a way, everyone was very happy for my mother that
00:11:00.780 she had such a good, I'm sorry to use this word, death, that she had such a good death, which is
00:11:05.240 her passing to the next life. And actually, all of us were quite joyful about the situation, of
00:11:10.800 course, besides having the sorrow inside also. It's an odd thing, I guess, for many in the world
00:11:16.300 to hear of joy at someone's passing, even though there's a sorrow, but there's a greater joy.
00:11:20.960 One of the things that's characteristic of traditional practices of Catholicism that's
00:11:27.540 not current is something called the apostolic pardon. Can you explain what that is and what
00:11:35.540 that does and how you did that for your mom? I call it the apostolic blessing, but it's the
00:11:40.580 same thing as the apostolic pardon. My brother, Father Kenneth Novak, already the week before,
00:11:46.300 When he gave my mother the extra munction, he concluded by giving the apostolic blessing.
00:11:51.420 And when I was with my mother several days later, I also gave her the apostolic blessing.
00:11:56.520 So what it is, it's a blessing.
00:11:59.660 It's called apostolic because it belongs to the Pope.
00:12:02.520 And I'm a delegate of the Pope.
00:12:04.100 I love to insist on that.
00:12:05.200 I love to insist on that.
00:12:06.700 I'm a delegate of the Pope when I give this blessing.
00:12:09.140 And what this blessing does is it removes all the temporal punishment due to sin.
00:12:14.420 so we all know that
00:12:17.460 when we go to the sacrament of confession
00:12:19.720 our Lord pardons the sin
00:12:21.500 our Lord pays for the sin
00:12:23.740 we are forgiven
00:12:24.880 whether it's venial sin or mortal sin
00:12:26.760 it is forgiven
00:12:27.540 and if it's mortal sin
00:12:29.760 we will not have to go to hell for that
00:12:31.160 however
00:12:31.740 all of sin
00:12:33.540 whether it's venial sin or mortal sin
00:12:36.800 it also bears a temporal punishment with it
00:12:39.420 which is something like
00:12:40.540 you and I
00:12:41.980 all of us have to
00:12:43.260 go through some penance, either in this life or in the next life, to pay for our sins.
00:12:48.200 If you read some of the books about purgatory, you see that that penance or that suffering
00:12:53.200 is quite severe in purgatory, whether it be very, very hot, or very, very cold sometimes,
00:13:00.900 or things that are stinging our senses. All of that is a lot of torture in the next life.
00:13:07.900 But also in this life, we can do temper punishment for our sin already,
00:13:11.080 because all of us have our duty of state.
00:13:14.660 All of us have our responsibilities.
00:13:18.080 And those responsibilities a lot of times involve setbacks, difficulties,
00:13:24.500 sufferings of one kind or another.
00:13:27.440 And if we take those sufferings and say, look, I deserve this for my sins.
00:13:33.160 Even if I don't deserve it for my sins,
00:13:35.000 there are other people who can profit from these sufferings.
00:13:37.480 Well, then, I offer this as a sacrifice in union with the sufferings of my Lord, our Lord and Redeemer, on the cross.
00:13:45.380 And that's how we make temperate punishment for sin in this life.
00:13:50.100 But if, and by the way, when we make temperate punishment in this life, it's much more effective than making temperate punishment in the next life, which is purgatory, because that will be a sentence and we'll have no choice.
00:14:02.020 But here on earth, if we use our will to say, I offer this up for sin, that's much more efficacious and much more effective, and it really pays that temporal punishment quickly.
00:14:14.840 However, if you come to the end of your life and you receive the extra munction followed by the apostolic blessing, all of that temporal punishment is removed at that moment.
00:14:23.480 It's not even a question.
00:14:25.840 That apostolic blessing is something like a plenary indulgence.
00:14:30.400 it takes away all the temporal punishment due to sin.
00:14:34.180 And there are a few requisites or a few conditions.
00:14:37.800 They would be that the person have the right intention to receive the extra munction
00:14:42.580 and to receive the apostolic blessing,
00:14:45.220 that this person is not somehow against receiving an apostolic blessing.
00:14:50.180 It also implies that the person has no attachment to sin.
00:14:54.760 And, well, if the person had consciousness, it would be like a plenary indulgence.
00:14:59.260 you should also pray for the Pope. But usually, in that situation, we don't ask them to pray for
00:15:03.520 the Pope. It's sufficient that the priest is representing the Pope in giving this apostolic
00:15:08.000 blessing. There's a few things that really, really strike you as, what have we done in the Church?
00:15:16.200 That one, the basic forgetting or inavailability of the apostolic pardon,
00:15:23.460 strikes me, and anybody who really thinks about it, as one of the gravest horrors that
00:15:30.520 we experience in the church today. Very few people talk about that, but to think of the realities of
00:15:38.800 what purgatory is, the suffering, I remember a little book from Tan, it was called, I think,
00:15:44.200 One More Mass, and how a soul, a suffering soul in purgatory appeared to say he would go through
00:15:49.600 a lifetime of torture on earth for just one more mass. That's how efficacious, how beneficial
00:15:57.020 the Holy Sacrifice is. And so the idea that you could have a, sort of like, get a jail-free card
00:16:07.780 with an apostolic pardon or apostolic blessing, and have that not available to Catholics today,
00:16:15.820 by and large to almost nobody that's just one of those things that's so mind-boggling to me that
00:16:21.020 that is hard to fathom hard to i i didn't know what to say well john henry you have every right
00:16:28.480 to be mind-boggled uh that makes no sense to me either and here's where i get to show my ignorance
00:16:33.860 are you saying that the apostolic blessing does not exist anymore or it's been taken out of the
00:16:38.360 ritual it is so rare i've talked to so many priests who just don't even know about it and so
00:16:46.140 it's not taught in the seminary it's not something i heard of myself now mind you when you're young
00:16:53.480 you don't think about dying and whatever that is but it's not something that i heard of myself
00:16:57.900 until a number of years ago where tradition started to speak louder and then i learned
00:17:03.000 First of all, I wondered if it was real, because it seemed too good to be true.
00:17:08.420 But then, after I realized, oh my gosh, it's true, that's when I was, this is insane.
00:17:14.480 Yes, you're right.
00:17:15.140 It's a crime.
00:17:16.040 There's so many souls that never get prayed for.
00:17:18.560 There's so many souls that never get that blessing that could be getting out of purgatory
00:17:22.980 quickly, but it's not being given to them.
00:17:25.380 But I'll ask you this, John.
00:17:26.680 Do you see a common thread going on here?
00:17:28.840 I mean, there's very little emphasis on going to confession nowadays.
00:17:32.580 People really don't know what purgatory is, or what purgatory is all about.
00:17:36.260 People don't know about indulgences.
00:17:38.320 Anything that has to do with judgment and punishment and penance, and let's just face
00:17:43.300 it, the negative side about pleasing God and paying our debts because of our sin, all that
00:17:49.000 is just taken away from our religion nowadays.
00:17:50.960 Even the word sin is taken out of our religion nowadays, and I think we all know where that's
00:17:55.720 coming from.
00:17:56.620 It's coming from a Freemasonic influence on the Catholic Church, which is to try to convince
00:18:01.440 man that he's good enough by himself. Don't talk about the negative things. Only talk about the
00:18:06.280 positive things until you get to the point where a man thinks he does not even need grace anymore
00:18:12.620 to be pleasing to God. And then what do we have? We have the perfect brotherhood of man,
00:18:18.280 but now inside the church, pretending to be men of the church, but it's all a fake,
00:18:24.880 or it's at least a fake, or certainly people working against God. So when you mention there's
00:18:30.220 no apostolic blessing anymore, it fits. Let's turn to your mom. It's an incredible story. Your story 0.97
00:18:35.600 is written up in a book called Chicago Mom. Why don't you hold up that book if you have it there?
00:18:40.580 Sure. Hopefully there'll be enough light to pick that up there. This is the Chicago Mom
00:18:45.560 and the Fight for the Catholic Faith. She appears there with all of you guys, all of you kids.
00:18:52.020 She's alone. What happened that she's alone? What happened with your dad? How did that pan out?
00:18:57.000 The answer is quite simple. This is back in the days when there always had to be one person holding the camera. It's just that simple. My father's not in the picture because he's taking the picture. There's another picture inside the book, which is black and white, where my father's in the picture with all the children, but my mother is not. So same answer for that one, too.
00:19:17.540 Now, it's interesting because you described your mom as sort of the one who really fought for things.
00:19:26.280 Now, traditionally, the church's teaching is the father should be the spiritual head of the household, and maybe he was.
00:19:32.960 But I'm interested that you described your mom as sort of the fighter, if you will.
00:19:38.200 How did that play out in your family?
00:19:40.820 Sure. Well, that'll come out in the book for the people who read it.
00:19:44.520 and I'm not embarrassed to say this.
00:19:46.920 In fact, I'm a little bit even proud to say it.
00:19:49.820 My father, when he met my mother in 1958,
00:19:53.860 he was a baptized Catholic, and he was 30 years old,
00:19:58.100 and that was about it.
00:20:00.080 No First Communion, no catechism,
00:20:03.300 did not go to a Catholic school.
00:20:05.780 His parents were in the same situation, let's say,
00:20:08.860 not practicing the Catholic faith.
00:20:10.540 They just made sure to get their children baptized,
00:20:13.000 and that was the end of it.
00:20:14.520 And that was the man that my mother met after all those years of being in Catholic school and doing Catholic things.
00:20:21.320 That's the man that was most interested in her.
00:20:24.340 And she has a story to tell about that, too.
00:20:27.060 She said that I made myself the absolute challenge for him, thinking that he's not going to do all these things.
00:20:35.460 And she said, I won't date you unless you take catechism.
00:20:39.440 I won't date you unless you get baptized.
00:20:41.620 eyes no bars and no uh kind of evil living none of those things i'm not gonna have anything to do
00:20:48.860 with it and and he just kept meeting all of her challenges as if to say well you know you're not
00:20:54.960 going to be bigger than me in this and so i can prove to you i can do all these things too she
00:20:58.720 really did appeal to his uh sense of challenge he became a practicing catholic at that time
00:21:03.300 i think it was may of 1958 maybe march let me just whatever five or six months is and they were
00:21:10.500 married by November of 1958. So he met all the challenges. He did the catechism. Sorry, he was
00:21:16.780 already baptized, but he also did the First Holy Communion. And for some reason, the confirmation
00:21:21.400 did not get taken care of. That would get taken care of sometime later, and that's in the book
00:21:25.580 also. So when it came to or comes to religion, you see that my mother is kind of in the, not just
00:21:32.100 kind of, but really in the leading position. When it came to just about everything else, and that
00:21:36.680 would be the professional life and buying the home and making sure my mother had a good home, 0.85
00:21:45.320 et cetera. My father was very much a leader. We children, we didn't get the idea that religion is
00:21:51.060 just for women or just for mother. As I was saying, she's such a leader and such a fighter.
00:21:56.980 We got the idea it's for everyone, for mother and father. But we also understood that our mother was
00:22:02.800 the one who really was knowledgeable about these things and really had a lot of the conviction.
00:22:07.360 It might sound terrible to say that my father followed her in this way, but his following was
00:22:14.320 very, very faithful. And eventually it became a leading position for him also because he loved
00:22:21.660 building and architecture. And eventually he was the one who put the addition on the building where
00:22:26.760 we had the traditional mass back in the 1970s. And then when the Society of St. Pius X came along
00:22:31.820 in the 1980s. He became the coordinator for the chapel in the Chicago area, he and my mother
00:22:39.060 doing everything together. And eventually that blossomed into buying a church, a very nice
00:22:45.140 church in the Chicago area, and even the seminary building in Winona, Minnesota. That was my father's
00:22:51.060 participation in the Catholic faith. So he did not minimalize at all the practice of the Catholic
00:22:58.420 faith in our family. That's not a surprise, the way that relationship worked, because I think
00:23:02.800 St. Joseph and Our Lady, that would have been the same thing. She was the one with all the knowledge.
00:23:08.160 Oh, yeah. Thank you for that reflection. I haven't thought of that one yet, but yes,
00:23:12.540 that's a very good reflection. But in this regard is another thing. Obviously,
00:23:18.640 your mom's a really strong lady. I mean, just from the sounds of everything, when I read it.
00:23:22.680 Yes, she is. And she was surrounded by a lot of people who liked a strong lady. 1.00
00:23:26.040 Yes. Well, here's a question, because in traditional Catholic teaching, in terms of a husband and wife, when they're living, the wife is to submit to the husband. How does that work when there is a woman who's so strong, so knowledgeable? Did you ever see that play out in your family? Because that's obviously a hot topic right now, because that's a teaching that's completely rejected by almost everybody. 0.60
00:23:50.440 Well, you know how parents, they must get together once in a while by themselves and work out family issues and make some family decisions.
00:23:58.280 My mother said in that situation, she always presented her side of the story, what she had to say, let my father think about it, and then just stayed quiet about it after that.
00:24:10.060 And let him make the decision because that would be the right order of things which you just described.
00:24:15.660 But she had something to say, and then she said it,
00:24:18.760 and then she stayed quiet and let God work out the rest.
00:24:22.480 So one story in that regard, and that's in the book.
00:24:25.880 It perhaps needs a lot of leading up to, a lot of segue to get to that story,
00:24:30.740 but I'll try to pull it, I might pull it out of context here.
00:24:34.540 Somewhere back in the early 1970s, all of us Catholic children, eight of us,
00:24:39.300 we went to a Protestant school, a Baptist school.
00:24:42.660 And we were there from about 1972 to 1978 or 79, something like that.
00:24:49.160 And you might think, well, where did that come from?
00:24:51.380 Well, the beginning of the book explains in several chapters why that happened.
00:24:55.060 The Catholic school just wasn't doing their job.
00:24:57.400 And the nuns weren't doing their job.
00:24:58.900 And even the priest wasn't doing his job.
00:25:00.920 So that would be back in the 60s.
00:25:03.560 And my parents said, we'll pull the children out of the Catholic school, which they did.
00:25:08.980 And I wasn't really in school yet.
00:25:10.640 I was still too young or maybe not even born yet.
00:25:13.220 That was okay.
00:25:14.120 I mean, they were studying.
00:25:15.300 There was nothing that evil in the school or the schools.
00:25:18.600 But eventually, because of our traditional Catholic circle where we went to Mass,
00:25:23.700 my mother found out about another family that was having their children go to a Baptist school.
00:25:29.040 And because of, you know, same sort of problems.
00:25:31.720 And she thought that might be a good idea because we were not getting any spiritual formation in the public school.
00:25:38.480 And there's some pretty bad examples in the public school sometime.
00:25:41.180 And she just thought that it would be better for us.
00:25:42.940 She presented the idea to my father about going to a Baptist school,
00:25:47.140 like this other family that had at least two of their children in a Baptist school.
00:25:50.320 And my father said, absolutely not.
00:25:52.240 I mean, we're Catholic.
00:25:53.680 I became Catholic because of—I'm sorry, he was already Catholic.
00:25:56.880 I became a practicing Catholic because of marrying you.
00:26:00.100 And what's all this about wanting to use a Protestant school? 0.62
00:26:03.320 And so my mother, well, she shut up.
00:26:07.580 She stayed quiet. And meanwhile, my father was thinking, well, what's all this about a Baptist school? Definitely not, but I just got to see what this place looks like anyway. So he went over to see it. And he loves land, what's called real estate and architecture. And they were actually building this school at this time, or their second plant, something like that.
00:26:31.500 And it was a fascinating building project. He was amazed by that. And he was also amazed by all the rules they had there in the school, the way the children had to dress, the way they had to talk or should not talk, the punishments, if they did do something bad, you know, you get paddling and all the rest of that.
00:26:50.940 he was really amazed and impressed by the place. So I don't know how long this was in debate with
00:26:56.980 my parents, a month or longer, but he came home and said, our children are going to go to that
00:27:02.440 school. And my mother, when she heard that, she thought that's definitely the Holy Ghost at work
00:27:10.020 because all I did was state my case earlier on and then I stayed quiet. And now he's telling me
00:27:14.640 they must go to that school. Would you say that my mother was dictating that? I don't think so.
00:27:19.040 I think she, like she said, stated her case and then prayed and stayed quiet.
00:27:24.180 And then my father came up with a decision and she supported him.
00:27:27.680 That's sort of an iconic one-off event that shows you about how she had the leadership,
00:27:35.660 but how she did not dominate my dad.
00:27:38.340 And I would say that happened in a lot of things.
00:27:42.180 The whole thing with my dad and my father getting so involved with the church,
00:27:45.740 You know, coordinator of the mission for the Society in Chicago and all the rest of that.
00:27:49.880 I think we all knew as children when it came to religion, my mother was even much more serious than my father was.
00:27:55.500 But being involved with these kind of projects were sort of irresistible for him.
00:28:00.300 We saw at the same time that maybe my mother's our mother's leading, but my father is right there with her and and she's not bossing him around.
00:28:10.720 And he still is calling the shots. He's still in charge of this family.
00:28:14.800 It's just that he's got a very strong woman giving him advice.
00:28:18.920 If you ask my mother why she married my father, she'll tell you it's because I knew I needed a man that was stronger than me.
00:28:30.800 She knows she's a dominating personality.
00:28:33.660 She knows her tendency is to dominate people, sometimes in a charming way, sometimes in a kind of heavy-handed way.
00:28:42.100 She knows that.
00:28:42.760 And she did not want to be the domineering wife of her husband.
00:28:46.740 This is kind of speaking out of school. 0.98
00:28:48.560 She had already seen her own mother do that to her father.
00:28:52.120 And she was not going to repeat that.
00:28:54.640 And that's why she married a man.
00:28:56.800 Oh, here's some more stuff out of school.
00:28:59.180 A man that was kind of very interested in himself, very interested in his business,
00:29:03.940 very interested in his profession, which is to be a dentist.
00:29:06.400 Kind of a me personality in many ways.
00:29:08.500 but she said, I'd rather have that, a man who tells me, you know, when to stay quiet or when
00:29:16.760 I'm allowed to talk, than have a man who's a pushover, who's going to let me dominate everything.
00:29:21.560 So that's one of the reasons she married my dad. And now that they've both passed on to the next
00:29:26.240 life, I think there will be no consequences of me saying that in public. They got married at a very
00:29:31.920 interesting time in the history of the church. So you said 1958, and in the later part of the
00:29:40.500 year. So that is the sort of demarcation point of a lot that went on, because that was the big
00:29:47.540 election in the church. That's when things really started to shift in a way that was prepped for the
00:29:54.580 Vatican Council, because that was the year of the election of John XXIII. It heralded all sorts of
00:30:01.260 things in the church. And in the book, you describe how your mom's noticing what the world
00:30:08.920 is going on with the church. Take us there a little bit. Give us a little taste of that. I
00:30:12.840 don't want to spoil everything in the book, but because that's such a time for the church.
00:30:19.760 It's a whirlwind. And take us through that and how they dealt with it as a family.
00:30:26.280 Yes, that was about as explosive a time in the church that you could possibly get married.
00:30:31.260 So, yes, they were married in November of 1958.
00:30:34.780 I think it was just a month after Pope Pius XII died.
00:30:38.340 And then came in Pope John XXIII.
00:30:42.240 So, and as it says in the book, and we all know, Pope John XXIII, he said,
00:30:47.980 now is the time for the church to open up the windows and let in the fresh air of the world.
00:30:53.620 That is so revolutionary.
00:30:55.820 That is so revolutionary.
00:30:56.880 For me, those words in themselves, they tell us exactly what he was all about and exactly where the church was headed for the next 60 years.
00:31:07.420 To say, let in the fresh air of the world, well, first of all, we know that the air of the world is stinky, it is fetid, it is full of sin.
00:31:16.160 And the church, by our Lord's own words, is supposed to be a light to the world, meaning that the world is darkness.
00:31:25.220 and we're supposed to bring it up.
00:31:27.520 We're not supposed to come to its standards.
00:31:29.660 The world is supposed to come to our standards,
00:31:31.660 no matter how many martyrdoms are necessary to make that happen.
00:31:34.840 And that's just the story of the church.
00:31:36.140 And it happens over and over again, century after century.
00:31:39.160 But now we've got the very head of the church saying,
00:31:42.620 those days are over.
00:31:44.020 The world has something to teach us.
00:31:46.820 And it's been a revolution ever since.
00:31:49.260 So I guess, you know, my mother was keen to those words already at that time.
00:31:55.220 Something I have to say in favor of her own family, her last name was Shmay before, they
00:32:01.000 were very politically inclined.
00:32:04.160 And also regarding the church, they were religiously inclined, watching who was in
00:32:08.200 charge of the church, et cetera.
00:32:09.760 Even though they, her parents, they went to Mass on Sunday, but they didn't do much more
00:32:14.140 about the practice of their religion besides that.
00:32:16.480 So my mother, as far as being a religious person is concerned, that was her response
00:32:21.020 to the Holy Ghost.
00:32:22.540 She got some from her parents, a lot from the nuns, and then she carried it from there.
00:32:28.820 So she had that past to be politically inclined, religiously inclined.
00:32:33.700 And I would say, I don't mean to make anything too negative here, but she was always looking
00:32:39.160 for the enemy.
00:32:40.060 You know, what's wrong about this?
00:32:41.880 And what's wrong about that?
00:32:43.000 And what's wrong about this?
00:32:44.000 What are they really trying to say with this or that?
00:32:46.480 So she's that kind of person.
00:32:48.420 And therefore, when the church modernized like that or liberalized like that, she was very aware about what was going on there.
00:32:56.620 You probably remember, it is said in the first chapter of the book, which is the introduction, my mother on the occasion of her first Holy Communion.
00:33:06.220 So I would guess that was about the year 1940, because she was born in 1933.
00:33:10.920 It might have been a little later.
00:33:12.660 But they had a dear old priest offering Mass at the convent school,
00:33:17.760 which was run by the Holy Child Sisters.
00:33:20.640 Father Foley was celebrating the Mass for the First Holy Communion,
00:33:24.500 talking to a bunch of seven- and eight-year-olds, I imagine.
00:33:29.100 And he said, now, children, I want you to know
00:33:32.220 you're going to receive your First Holy Communion.
00:33:35.540 Someday the Mass is going to be taken away from you.
00:33:39.400 And I want all of you to know this, because it will be up to you to find the Church and find the true Mass when that day happens.
00:33:47.860 You know, 1940, you know, I guess Pope Pius XII was in place at that time.
00:33:53.920 Vatican II was still 20 plus years away.
00:33:58.020 The Mass was still traditional and in Latin, and everyone was kneeling.
00:34:01.960 Where did this priest get the idea in 1940 to announce to a bunch of innocent children,
00:34:06.500 the Mass is going to be taken away from you?
00:34:08.180 And he said, he said, you cannot destroy the church without taking away the mass and the mass will be taken away from you.
00:34:18.260 I don't know if he's telling fairy tales or actually had a lot of education to say that, but it came from somewhere.
00:34:23.820 In scripture, if you're into prophecy, it talks about the daily sacrifice being removed for 1260 days.
00:34:31.420 probably a reference to that somewhere. But that's just speaking prophetically. But for him
00:34:39.840 to call it out as happening in their lifetimes, that they're going to be the ones, that's really
00:34:45.660 something. Now, Padre Pio was also talking about these times. I remember him talking about,
00:34:53.840 i remember reading about i'm not didn't not a contemporary of his but i i i wish um he was
00:35:00.180 born uh two excuse me he passed two years to the day before i was born so he passed in 68
00:35:05.600 his prophecy also was about the uh little 10 year olds uh in in the 50s uh he said that they
00:35:14.920 would experience uh the the times to come so yeah so definitely some priests and and perhaps
00:35:22.580 as Father Foley had the same kind of gifts that Padre Pio did.
00:35:26.700 If my mother were to tell you this story, she would say,
00:35:29.280 and he was a priest of Irish background, so he still had a strong accent.
00:35:33.260 And so he told all of us, someday they will take away the moths.
00:35:36.580 They will take away the moths from you.
00:35:38.060 And she remembered not mass, but moths.
00:35:41.640 That's not exactly an essential detail, but she always told the story that way.
00:35:44.840 My mother was on her guard for these kind of these liberalizing things
00:35:48.640 happening to happen in the church.
00:35:50.940 So even though I'm sure from 1958 to 1961, 62, 63, the main thing she was thinking about
00:35:58.540 was, I'm married, I'm married to a good man, I'm going to have as many children as I can
00:36:02.880 in the time that I still can.
00:36:05.020 She was married at 25 years of age.
00:36:07.120 She said that back in those days, that was kind of late to be getting married, 25.
00:36:11.680 Nowadays, that's like a youngster to get married, but it's 25.
00:36:14.980 And so between 25 years of age and 35 years of age, she gave birth to all of us.
00:36:19.040 So those were the main thoughts on her mind, I think, was just, let's get this family off
00:36:23.620 the ground.
00:36:24.060 But she was also following the liberalization of the Catholic Church at the same time.
00:36:29.020 It's funny because in your book, it comes out that your parents are fighters.
00:36:33.120 I mean, for one thing, as you explained, they took you out of the Catholic school, put you
00:36:37.780 first in the public school, then into a Protestant school, a Baptist school.
00:36:42.380 But how did it fare with regard to the traditional Mass and the Society of St. Pius X?
00:36:48.440 First of all, I think it was only my older brother and sister, oldest brother and sister, who were actually in the Catholic school back in the 1960s.
00:36:57.320 And that was all finished, let's say, they were taken out of the Catholic school even before the other members, there's David and Ruthann, even before they were school age.
00:37:09.640 So they never even had a chance to go to the Catholic school at that time.
00:37:13.380 So the older ones were taken out. I think I tell some of the stories in the book why that was.
00:37:17.680 They were made to read an unusual book that had witchcraft in it.
00:37:21.100 My mother protested it, and they got the book discontinued, which is fine.
00:37:27.820 And then there were some other things.
00:37:30.200 Go into your parents' bedroom and draw a picture of the bedroom.
00:37:35.000 And my mom said, that's weird.
00:37:37.020 No one's going into my bedroom to draw my bedroom for the rest of the classroom.
00:37:41.540 And then the children were told, now, 1960, whatever, the children were told,
00:37:46.660 Now, make a report. All the boys had to make a report about why they want to be a girl.
00:37:51.880 And all the girls need to make a report about why they want to be a boy. 0.96
00:37:55.100 My mother said, that's enough of this place. We're getting out of here. 0.99
00:37:58.420 I'm not sure if it was on that occasion or even before, a little later.
00:38:04.140 But that actually came up with the Monsignor, who was running the church and the school at that time in Naperville, Illinois.
00:38:13.260 They were starting the sexual education there at the school.
00:38:17.020 And these children are 10 years old at the most and younger.
00:38:20.480 And they're learning about the intimate life of husband and wife.
00:38:23.500 And my mother just, she made a phone call that time.
00:38:26.980 She didn't even go to the office to protest because they weren't paying attention to her by that time.
00:38:30.640 So she made a phone call to the Monsignor, who was the prior and rector and all the rest of that of the church and school.
00:38:36.640 And she said, you know, this has never been done before, you know, the sexual education in the school.
00:38:41.420 And these children are very innocent to be learning these things.
00:38:44.020 And he was understanding and patient and so forth.
00:38:46.660 that my mother started asking, you know, can you give me a little, give me a sign here that you're
00:38:51.940 going to do something about this and not much commitment. And then she insisted again. And 0.53
00:38:55.620 then he got all mad at her, shouted at her on the telephone, Madam, it is not my business
00:39:02.280 what my underling priests are doing here in their free time. So there he is, the big shot. And with
00:39:08.480 a great traditional record, just handing over the curriculum to liberal priests that are going to
00:39:12.980 put sexual education in the school. And my mother was certain at that time that, no, we just have
00:39:19.540 to pull out for this. And so we did, or she did. And then, as I was saying, they did public school.
00:39:25.860 Nothing especially harmful, like I was saying, but just no spiritual formation at all. No spiritual
00:39:32.880 formation at all. Now, I know, because I've heard back from other people who have read the book,
00:39:38.500 And they said, you know, your story, your parents' story, your family's story is exactly our family's story.
00:39:44.280 We went through those same crises.
00:39:46.640 We went through those same issues during the 1970s wasteland of the Catholic Church.
00:39:52.880 And only in about the mid-'80s do we see the hope of the Society of St. Pius X emerging.
00:39:57.400 Until that time, everyone was sort of left to themselves,
00:40:00.980 work out your spiritual lives because the Catholic Church is not going to help you. 0.63
00:40:04.840 And that's where everyone was at that time.
00:40:06.900 the whole of society is changing. It was avant-garde to be that way for these priests in
00:40:14.720 the church. We think about the timing. This only starts from Kinsey, Alfred Kinsey, zoologist.
00:40:22.840 He writes Sexuality in the Human Mail, something like that, in 1948. So a decade before is a
00:40:30.820 groundbreaking so-called work, which we learn only many decades later was based on complete
00:40:39.380 falsehood, included, by the way, pedophilic abuse of little kids. And that is what really changed
00:40:48.800 the whole scientific literature on the subject. He came out in 53, I think it was, with sexual
00:40:54.280 behavior in the human female but those works which were uh now known to be fraudulent were
00:41:00.740 what changed the scientific uh understanding of things which is false of course but nonetheless
00:41:05.840 but why is it that these priests are going with this when even society is not there yet like
00:41:13.000 this the whole point the you know laws are still against this kind of thing but the priests were
00:41:17.900 the first one to submit to it sounds a little bit like uh just six years ago with the covid laws
00:41:23.140 It was the Catholic Church, it was the priests who were ahead of the policemen on closing their churches.
00:41:28.400 It really makes you think that when they talked about infiltration into the church,
00:41:35.260 that it was a very real thing that we got from Bella Dodd through Archbishop Sheen.
00:41:41.720 I want to get from you your final thoughts on your mom.
00:41:44.300 Your book's available.
00:41:45.820 First of all, tell us where it's available.
00:41:48.020 A Chicago Mom and the Fight for the Catholic Faith.
00:41:51.040 It's available on Amazon.
00:41:52.780 So that's about as easy as it can get.
00:41:55.440 I was happy to do it that way because if I had made it definitive by Angelus Press or something like that
00:42:00.880 and put it in our bookstores, maybe it might not have got into our bookstores
00:42:04.300 because some society people or priests might not agree with everything.
00:42:08.060 The whole thing about the Protestant school, Baptist school, etc.,
00:42:11.060 I've heard priests sort of shoot me down on that one before.
00:42:14.320 And I'm saying, what was your option back in 1972?
00:42:17.760 too. And anyway, the Protestant school really taught us a lot about respect for authority and
00:42:24.080 love for God. There's no doubt about that. And we knew we were not hearing what we're supposed to
00:42:28.720 hear about the Holy Eucharist, because the Protestants are against that. And the same 0.98
00:42:32.480 thing about the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, they're against the way we recognize our
00:42:35.980 Holy Mother. But somehow, just by having some catechism at home or some talks at home,
00:42:42.340 Besides getting the education with the Baptists, 0.58
00:42:44.720 I think it was much more helpful than going to any Catholic schools. 0.95
00:42:48.920 I know that.
00:42:49.360 I am so thankful for my mother or people like my mother
00:42:54.040 who made sure that the Catholic faith was preserved.
00:42:57.980 The three vocations in our family come from that.
00:43:00.840 I know the Holy Ghost is at work.
00:43:02.280 There's a whole lot of other conditions and circumstances that are at work.
00:43:06.300 But if you take my mother out of the story,
00:43:08.920 there would not be three vocations in our family.
00:43:11.100 I'm sure of that.
00:43:11.780 I'm absolutely positive of that.
00:43:13.700 So that's a huge closing thought right there is how much I am indebted to her, how much
00:43:18.840 we are indebted to her.
00:43:19.960 The reason I wrote the book was because it's been about three or four years ago now, books
00:43:24.800 were starting to come out about different people who fought for the traditional Catholic
00:43:30.300 faith during some of the toughest years.
00:43:32.400 So one book was put out by Father Alphonse Marie about Father Catherine.
00:43:38.020 He was an early traditional priest on the West Coast in California.
00:43:41.780 And then a man named Russ Wenzel in St. Louis, Missouri, he put out a book about his mother, Mrs. Mary Wenzel.
00:43:51.240 You know what he called his book?
00:43:53.680 Why Your Children Will Not Go to Heaven.
00:43:56.400 I love that title.
00:43:58.560 Okay, if you want to find a nice, friendly title out there, here's what he called Why Your Children Will Not Go to Heaven.
00:44:05.060 Why bother reading it now that I know how the story finishes?
00:44:08.080 But no, it's all about his mother.
00:44:09.540 He did a fantastic job in making sure that the traditional mass would be, and the traditional catechism would be preserved in St. Louis, Missouri, against all kinds of odds.
00:44:19.260 And then Mr. Thomas Summers, who is the father of my former superior, Father Patrick Summers in Asia.
00:44:26.840 Mr. Thomas Summers, who's from the Jackson, Michigan area, he made a book about Father Boldock, Father Hector Boldock, who is the, as far as the American apostle of the Society of St. Pius X, he's like,
00:44:39.540 George Washington. I mean, he started everything. I'm in a priory right now here in El Paso, Texas
00:44:44.420 that was bought by Father Hector Bullock back in the late 70s or early 80s. So he got St. Mary's,
00:44:49.920 Kansas for us. He obtained Kansas City, Missouri for us. He obtained Dickinson, Texas for us and
00:44:55.980 this place and a lot of other places. Father Hector Bullock. So Father Mr. Thomas Summers
00:45:01.440 wrote a book about his life. So I was talking with my mother around Easter of 2023 and I said,
00:45:07.540 mom you need to have a book and she said no come on it's not that serious well i said well you
00:45:13.460 got to write some things down and she said well maybe i will someday you need to have a book i
00:45:18.100 insisted with her and uh so i can't i went home after that vacation i went back to my place my
00:45:23.420 priory the priory of where i was at and uh just started writing essays until i made a book and
00:45:28.960 my mother was so um she was so humiliated by that or mortified i don't know what she was surprised
00:45:34.260 that I was making something such a big deal about
00:45:36.280 her life. And then
00:45:37.980 how'd they go? I would send
00:45:40.260 my mother's not a user of the computer
00:45:42.240 so I would
00:45:43.320 chapter by chapter or essay
00:45:46.140 by essay, I would send it over to
00:45:48.260 her good friend, Linda
00:45:50.180 Mengele, who has a computer
00:45:51.780 and she would print it out and give
00:45:54.240 it to my mother on the following Sunday, something like that.
00:45:56.660 After reading it, of course, because
00:45:58.120 you know, you deal with
00:45:59.920 the 1.00
00:46:01.060 feminine communication line as part
00:46:04.240 of the part of the package i must read it first before i give it to your mother which is fine
00:46:08.020 so uh my mother had about 20 of these or 25 i can't remember exactly how many of these essays
00:46:13.220 she had and then um one day she's i kind of got the idea she really wasn't reading them or wasn't
00:46:18.460 really taking it all that serious seriously and then one day she said uh sorry lawrence i i just
00:46:24.220 i hate to admit this but i lost all those essays i don't know where i put them and i said well
00:46:29.240 don't worry mom we're gonna make the book anyway and she said no you're not gonna make that into
00:46:33.860 a book, are you? You're going to bind that? No, that'll be so silly, or something like that. I
00:46:37.740 don't know what it was. But anyway, it ended up happening, and that was 2023 we made the book,
00:46:44.160 and it was already published the first time in 2024, and then the second one came out in 2026
00:46:49.860 with the pictures and available by Amazon. Thanks be to God and our Holy Mother in heaven
00:46:54.520 for this person who was so strong about the Catholic faith, so committed to it, gave us a
00:46:59.760 big family, a big Catholic family, so that we can carry on, continue the life of the church that
00:47:04.400 she knew all of her life, at least her growing up life. That's the main thing I had to say about
00:47:09.000 my mother. We really needed to share that story. You know, I've given out so many of those books
00:47:13.660 now. People have asked me, how much does it cost? How much does it cost? They say, no, don't worry
00:47:17.760 about paying for it. I just want to get the story out there. So I have the same intention now,
00:47:21.200 just tension now, just get the story out there. People need to know about this life, and not just
00:47:25.760 my mother's life but many other people's lives that have preserved the catholic church and
00:47:30.620 because of them we have what we have now we have schools and and um nice mass times on a sunday
00:47:37.040 seven o'clock a.m nine o'clock a.m eleven o'clock a.m at buildings we didn't have that back in the
00:47:43.880 70s and it's thanks thanks to these hard workers that we have that now and father last thing to
00:47:48.020 you is please give us your blessing benedictio de omnipotentes patris et fide spiritus sancti
00:47:54.160 Amen.
00:47:57.520 Thank you so much, Father Novak.
00:47:59.420 So good to be with you.
00:48:00.640 God bless you, John Henry Weston.
00:48:02.140 Thank you so much for receiving me.
00:48:03.820 God bless you.
00:48:04.880 And God bless all of you.
00:48:06.580 And we'll see you next time.
00:48:11.240 Hello, I'm Frank Wright.
00:48:14.140 I recently suffered the distinct shock of being viewed by over 50 million people
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00:48:47.180 Thank you. God bless you.