The John-Henry Westen Show - November 13, 2026


Thoughtcrime Trial Moves Ahead in the UK — Meet the Accused ｜ Isabel Vaughan-Spruce

Papal Posse’s Fr. Gerald Murray Joins John-Henry to Speak on Francis and Leo XIV

Episode Stats


Length

33 minutes

Words per minute

186.33

Word count

6,215

Sentence count

119

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00 I was simply just standing there in my head praying and he survived and asked me what I was
00:00:06 doing. And I said, I might be praying in my head, but nothing out loud. And that was nothing to
00:00:11 arrest me. You know, my great friend, Father James Altman, always talks about praise that we might be
00:00:22 faithful unto martyrdom. And then he says red or white. And what he means by white martyrdom is
00:00:28 someone who's persecuted for the faith and stands up for the faith in Jesus Christ and his truth
00:00:34 and his church nonetheless. And my guest today is one such person. And she actually got rather
00:00:41 famous about four years ago now, because she's in England. And there was that famous case in
00:00:49 England where it went around that it was thought crime because she was praying, not out loud,
00:00:56 silently outside an abortion clinic not even right outside it just in the vicinity where it's
00:01:03 apparently illegal not even just to be just to silently pray the prayers the illegal part
00:01:10 with us today is isabel von spruce isabel thank you so much for joining us thank you so much for
00:01:15 having me here let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross in the name of the father
00:01:19 and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. You know, at LifeSite, Isabel, we regard you and
00:01:26 people who do what you do as heroes of ours. It's a joy for me to speak with you and to
00:01:33 encourage you also from all of our fans to keep going, keep strong, despite the
00:01:39 rather crazy persecution. Let's hear about that. So recount for us in a nutshell what happened to
00:01:45 back in the day when you were praying silently and how that went?
00:01:51 Yeah. So just to say, this has been going on, like you say, for over four years now. So it's
00:01:55 getting longer to account it. Yeah, it started in 2022. You know, I've been praying outside
00:02:03 abortion centers for probably about 25 years now. So even at that point, I'd been praying
00:02:07 outside the abortion centers for 20 years. You know, many women would have accepted the help
00:02:13 we'd offered um you know i know lots of women who who managed to continue a much wanted pregnancy
00:02:18 because we were able to offer them the support they needed um but then we had a local buffer
00:02:24 zone brought in and i think that would have been september 2022 if i'm correct in birmingham
00:02:30 and that doesn't affect it being a public street instead of public street but it means certain
00:02:36 activities are prohibited like certain forms of protesting and things like that
00:02:40 um so since that buffer zone came in I no longer went to offer help or anything outside the abortion
00:02:46 center but I simply went to silently pray um near the abortion center and that's what I was doing
00:02:53 in December 2022 I was just simply silently praying there so I wasn't carrying any posters
00:02:59 or leaflets I wasn't manifesting my life beliefs or my faith I wasn't you know holding a rosary
00:03:06 rosary beads or a bible or anything else I was simply just standing there in my head praying
00:03:11 and the police arrived and asked me what I was doing and I said I might be praying in my head
00:03:17 but nothing out loud and that was nothing to arrest me and search me and take me to the police
00:03:23 station and lock me in a police cell and interview me under caution and of course eventually I was
00:03:29 charged for engaging in an act which was intimidating service users and just to say
00:03:35 when i was outside the abortion center it was closed so there were no service users but yeah
00:03:41 that's how crazy you're the hassle that you suffered though reverberated around the world
00:03:46 because thought crime that is a very good it was it was popularized in film and whatnot
00:03:53 but it was so apparent in your case it was just scary now you did have a a settlement uh so tell
00:04:02 us about that yeah so i went to court following that charge i was acquitted in court so it would
00:04:07 have been february the next year three weeks later i was rearrested this time by six police officers
00:04:13 in a police van they took me away again put in a police cell for a while after six months on bail
00:04:19 that the case was dropped but police continued to come out and give me tickets and harass me
00:04:26 so I decided to make a claim against the police which I did for false imprisonment
00:04:30 for wrongful arrest and I was awarded a settlement of £13,000 but sadly the police still
00:04:39 continued to come out and accost me even after that settlement. It's incredible that you have
00:04:48 police harassment of people who are doing legal activity it goes to court it gets adjudicated
00:04:56 you win and it continues anyway that's that that all by itself is stunning but it seems that
00:05:06 they're going forward with another charge again what's going on right now yeah so the previous
00:05:10 charges have been under under a local buffer zone so it's called a pspo a public space protection
00:05:16 order so that's when the the local police force and the local council worked together to bring
00:05:21 in a local law so originally that would have been used for things like you know dog fouling in a
00:05:25 park or drunk behavior in in a town city they might have banned drinking or something but it
00:05:31 was in my opinion misused to to um try and create these zones around abortion centers but then um
00:05:38 on october the 31st 2024 national buffer zones were brought in um and i make a note of that date
00:05:45 because you know satan doesn't hide does he halloween um his work is carried out in his his
00:05:52 time um and so a national buffer zone was brought around every abortion center in the country and
00:05:59 that means that every place providing an abortion whether it's an abortion center or or or somewhere
00:06:04 within a hospital that provides abortion they all now have a buffer zone of 150 meters where certain
00:06:10 activities are prohibited but that still doesn't stop them being public streets if it's a public
00:06:17 street before it's still a public street it's still just certain activities that are prohibited
00:06:21 so looking at that wording I still recognize that that silent prayer cannot possibly be prohibited
00:06:27 because that's something internal and if myself as a Christian I'm allowed on that street and of
00:06:34 course I am I'm not a second-class citizen just because of my faith and if other people are allowed
00:06:39 on that street, I'm allowed on that street. And if I'm allowed on that street, then I'm allowed
00:06:43 to think whatever I choose to think or turn my thoughts on that street. And if that happens to
00:06:50 be to God, then that is my business and not anyone else's business. And that is the stunning thing.
00:06:56 Even though it's supposed to be allowed, that makes perfect sense. There's nowhere that could
00:07:03 adjudicate and say, no, no. And yet thought crime is there in practice, not in law, but somehow in
00:07:13 practice. It is so stunning, but you're not the only one facing insanity in England. I remember
00:07:21 that JD Vance said something just totally crazy about the UK. In fact, it was so crazy because
00:07:28 he said it publicly and he was fact-checked right away. In fact, I fact-checked him too, because
00:07:33 He talked about how in Scotland, there was people in their house that couldn't pray publicly in their house because their house happened to fall inside the buffer zone.
00:07:50 And then prayer that could be construed to be prayer about that could be wrong.
00:07:56 I had to fact check because that was too hard to believe, but sure enough, it was in the buffer zone.
00:08:00 I was like, oh my goodness.
00:08:01 but you've got some stories now about what's going on with teachers tell us about that yeah and just
00:08:07 to say i know i had friends who actually sent me the leaflets that had been distributed around
00:08:11 their houses that when they'd lived in you know in the vicinity of buffer zones in scotland
00:08:16 and they were actually sending them to me saying yes this is true you know like houses private
00:08:21 houses and our gardens fall under this buffer zone you know and could we could be censored
00:08:26 because of it which is which is cute and when she says gardens that's their term for backyard
00:08:31 like yeah you gotta picture yourself you're in your living room and the curtains happen to be
00:08:39 open and the police come in and charge you because you're there kneeling with your family
00:08:42 in front of the the fireplace or whatever no you're out in your backyard and you're saying
00:08:47 your rosary around your your statue of our lady and you're gonna be in trouble this is modern day
00:08:54 uh uk right now no no joke please continue yeah and so like you say we've now got um other
00:09:02 situations happening um throughout the uk to be honest at the moment it seems like whatever whatever
00:09:07 day or week you pick there's something new that's happening i mean i know at the moment we've got a
00:09:12 case with um secondary school teacher anita meston and um she was um sacked from her job
00:09:20 simply for answering a pupil's question she didn't initiate it she answered a question
00:09:25 where a pupil um said to her you know i'm pro-abortion miss or some words to that effect
00:09:30 um how about you um she she responded that she was pro-life um because she knew women who'd been
00:09:37 hurt by abortion and when the the pupil said something to the effect of oh well i know i know
00:09:42 women who've been fine about their abortion um the teacher responded fair enough you know but
00:09:47 she was sacked because of this. She's now taking her school to call about this. She's suing them
00:09:56 for wrongful dismissal. But the fact that somebody has to go through that simply for responding to
00:10:03 a pupil's question, we think that's somehow damaging to pupils to have their questions
00:10:07 responded to. This isn't something that she was forcing upon the class. This isn't something that
00:10:12 she initiated and said, I'm going to tell you all what I think about abortion. She was simply
00:10:17 responding to a question that was asked and didn't go any further than the scope of what she was asked
00:10:21 to to respond to so yeah it's been really concerning and and as you've mentioned i'm
00:10:27 certainly not the only one to fall you know foul of this this buffer zone ruling so there's so many
00:10:31 people that are being challenged because of their their pro-life or their christian beliefs and
00:10:36 we've seen that with christian preachers around the uk as well so it is becoming a challenging time
00:10:42 to be to be christian if you're really living out your faith um in in the uk how do you keep
00:10:48 going with it like you know a lot of people would be like oh oh my i'll just do my private thing now
00:10:54 this is getting a bit too much why do you keep going anyway i think for any of us who are who
00:10:59 are really living out our faith i think at some point or another there's going to be a time when
00:11:04 you know the rubber hits the road and in some way there's there's a difficulty for us you know and
00:11:11 And that that might be something that's a bit more public, like in my case or in the case of the other people we've been talking about.
00:11:18 It might be something within a within a relationship, you know, within our own families and friendship groups.
00:11:24 You know, it might be something that we're overlooked for a promotion at work or whatever it might be.
00:11:29 It might be something that never hits the press, never doesn't get any attention.
00:11:34 But I think that is the nature of our faith, that there will be challenges on it.
00:11:38 And I think that we have to be ready for that. And in a way, I think it can help refine our faith and make it a purer faith. It's not something we live out just to have a more enjoyable life.
00:11:53 obviously our faith is something which is you know hugely consoling at times but it can be
00:11:58 hugely challenging as well um and it's important that that we follow our faith not just because of
00:12:03 um we want consolation or or what we might get back but we follow that faith because it is true
00:12:10 because because of our love for for for jesus for our love for the for the trinity and those
00:12:17 for the Catholics for our love for our blessed mother and all that goes with that um so I I think
00:12:23 you know of course there will be challenges that's that's always been the case and in a way
00:12:28 of course we've got to expect that and that's why we've got to make sure that I think our faith is
00:12:33 something and our relationship with God is something that that's that's really personal
00:12:36 um so that we don't you know get discouraged which is such a a big thing nowadays I think
00:12:44 particularly you know as i say for those of us who are living out our our faith in countries
00:12:48 where things are being challenged and i appreciate that there's countries that where the faith is a
00:12:52 lot more challenged than than here if i was living in nigeria for example um you know that's where
00:12:58 they're facing very serious that threat so yeah i'm not trying to pretend that that you know it's
00:13:04 more difficult than than in some places um but but i i think that we've got to make sure that
00:13:10 we've got that real relationship with God so that we can stand firm.
00:13:14 Indeed. Do you have family?
00:13:15 So I live with some of my siblings.
00:13:19 So I'm not married and don't have children.
00:13:22 Well, that might be easier in the sense that you're not, you know,
00:13:26 because that could get scary with regard to the possibility of arrest.
00:13:29 But even with your family, have you ever faced that kind of pressure
00:13:33 from family or friends to say, you got to stop now, this is too crazy?
00:13:39 I think most of us will have somewhere in our families, people who have different beliefs to us. And I don't know. I know very few families put it that way that don't have either family members or close friends. They'll have very different beliefs to what we think.
00:13:55 But in a way, again, obviously, whilst we want other people to believe in the truth, sometimes it can be helpful for us to have to have those interactions with people.
00:14:08 We know that there's people who have different beliefs, and sometimes it's only when it's those close to us that it can really push us to make sure that we respond in the most charitable way, to make sure that we really do think through these issues as well as we can.
00:14:25 And and because it is something personal and it's among people that we really, really care about on a personal level, I think it really makes us engage with those issues in a very real way.
00:14:37 So I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Obviously, we we want those for those people.
00:14:42 We want them to come to the fullness of truth. But I think for ourselves, God can still use that, you know, and to make us better people.
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00:16:48 Now, you do something that's very special because a lot of people, even if they go out and pray on, you know, in front of abortion clinics and so on,
00:16:58 you, though, are one of the people who engage with women entering or couples entering or whatever.
00:17:04 um and that's a very special thing to do it also uh to bring it more home i think helps you know
00:17:14 how best to address this situation because this situation doesn't come to most of us by standing
00:17:20 outside and trying to do something about those standing those entering but it does come to us
00:17:25 when god forbid our children but sometimes it is the case your children come to you or your
00:17:31 relatives or your friends come to you or even now if you're older your children's friends and so on
00:17:38 come how would you counsel your own child or uh you know your child comes because their friend
00:17:46 isn't is going to have an abortion what what do you say what what do you do what what advice would
00:17:51 you give so first of all i just want to make it really clear that since buffer zones i haven't
00:17:56 engaged with anyone going inside you know the or entering the abortion center so to make it clear
00:18:00 that's something that I used to do prior to buffer zones would talk to women outside the abortion
00:18:04 center if they wanted a consensual conversation but since that I haven't at all but I still do 0.57
00:18:10 have you know interactions with with you know many women in different stages it might be it
00:18:15 might be women or couples who are considering abortion it might be people who've had abortions
00:18:19 of course like any of us we meet people who just got different opinions to us and want to engage
00:18:24 on this topic and I always think it's important to get back to um the kind of the starting point
00:18:31 of this issue I often think a conversation can start at what I'd call point c so it might be
00:18:37 something like someone will say oh you know um oh you you know you're you you don't agree with
00:18:42 abortion so you think if a woman's raped and gets pregnant she should be forced to continue a
00:18:46 pregnancy you know it'll be something like that where it can often start and yet whilst that's
00:18:53 a very important point to be able to discuss you know the person talking to us maybe they've been
00:18:58 affected by rape it's not a bad thing to have a heart for those who've been impacted by rape which
00:19:03 is which is absolutely terrible that's not where we want to start the conversation so I would always
00:19:09 show some acknowledgement to the point that they brought up I don't want to look like I'm dismissing
00:19:13 it but I would you know say something like that's a really important point that you've brought up
00:19:18 but in order to do it justice we need to go back a little bit and look at what does it mean to be
00:19:23 pregnant you know what would your thoughts be on that because that needs to be where we start you
00:19:28 know if if you think that to be pregnant means that you've got a blob of tissue inside you and
00:19:32 i think it means that you're having a baby then of course we're going to have a different idea
00:19:37 on how we deal with that issue you know we're going to be talking across purposes to each other
00:19:41 and that happens so often when we're having conversations with people because we started
00:19:46 at the wrong place we're just talking at cross purposes and effectively about two different
00:19:51 things so we need to understand that we can get onto the same page to start with and so we need
00:19:56 to pose that question of what does it mean to be pregnant so often that's something that we don't
00:20:01 think about even when we're having conversations on abortion which might sound quite bizarre you
00:20:06 know even when we're talking with women who are considering an abortion their thoughts can often
00:20:10 be just I want to be unpregnant you know and I've heard that word so many times unpregnant
00:20:16 rather than actually thinking about well what is pregnancy what does that really mean you know
00:20:21 and i think deep down we all know that we all know that when you get that indication on a
00:20:27 pregnancy test the journey has already started you're having a baby you know it's it's can't
00:20:33 just turn the clock back on but i think we need sometimes help to kind of it's almost like peeling
00:20:40 the skin off an onion we need help to uncover those layers that have been covered up by a lot
00:20:45 of the sort of modern mantras of you know my body my choice or it's just a clump of cells and things
00:20:51 like that to get to that core truth of it is a human being a new human life has started
00:20:57 and once we've understood that then we can begin to move on and look at okay now we've understood
00:21:03 that there's a human being inside me now we can look at what does abortion do to that human being
00:21:09 and look at the truth of that and then we're in a better place to to actually answer those other
00:21:14 questions of what about rape or can a man talk on this subject or what if you know the mother's
00:21:21 life's in danger or you know any other of those questions that might come up but i think we've
00:21:25 got to start at the starting point of of what does it actually mean to be pregnant and that's
00:21:30 something that we all know but i think it has to be verbalized um so that we can actually be aware
00:21:37 of that truth and make sure that the person that we're talking to is really aware of that truth
00:21:42 in their heart. And that's something that we can help bring to light by our conversations.
00:21:48 You have a beautiful demeanor. Do you think that plays a part in terms of how you interact
00:21:57 with the person who's considering abortion? I think how we interact is crucially important.
00:22:04 I mean, two people can say the same things, as we all know, and it can come across very,
00:22:07 very differently. And I think it is very important that we don't get, certainly not
00:22:12 angry but we don't get defensive and i do see that quite a lot amongst very well-meaning pro-lifers
00:22:17 sometimes it's because we're maybe struggling to articulate well and i know certainly in my past
00:22:23 i've been guilty of that you know if you're not able to articulate something well you can get
00:22:27 defensive you know um or maybe it's because of you know past hurts that we've got that we haven't
00:22:33 dealt with um maybe somebody's you know hit a nerve with us and we respond badly so i think we
00:22:39 do have to be very aware of of how we're interacting you know and just look out for
00:22:44 those telltale signs in in our voice in our tone in our manner where we're maybe getting a little
00:22:49 bit defensive um and even if necessary apologize for that you know and or address it and say look
00:22:55 I know last time we spoke I think actually I lost my cool a bit and I'm really sorry about that
00:23:00 um and that's a really difficult thing to do but I think it can really help those fruitful
00:23:05 conversations um and of course that's why prayer has got to be there you know we don't know when
00:23:11 we're going to suddenly be thrown into that situation when we're going to be asked about
00:23:14 abortion and it brought into the conversation you know it can literally happen on a on a bus in a
00:23:20 you know an airport i had that at an airport a while ago just waiting for um waiting in a queue
00:23:26 to go on my plane and somebody came up to me and said oh is this the right queue for you know
00:23:31 dublin i think it was i was going at the time and when i said yes i was aware everyone was
00:23:37 listening because it was such a quiet um it was you know really early in the morning nobody was
00:23:42 really chatting to each other and she was quite a you know a vocal woman that was talking to me
00:23:47 she was she had quite a loud voice and she was like oh what are you doing there where are you
00:23:51 going and was asking me about my trip and i had to say i was going to speak at a pro-life event 0.96
00:23:56 and immediately i got this answer back of oh i believe in a woman's right to choose you know
00:24:01 and i was where i wasn't just talking to this woman i had a whole audience of this
00:24:06 i felt very awkward about it but i thought i know god's orchestrated this for some reason
00:24:13 whether it's for this woman or someone else in this queue that needs to to listen to this
00:24:17 and and so as i've just mentioned i tried to respond in the right way by you know saying i
00:24:24 think that's that's a really interesting thing to talk about what a woman has a right to choose and
00:24:28 what she doesn't but I think in order to do that justice we'd need to go back a little bit and look 0.99
00:24:32 at what does it mean to be pregnant you know what would your thoughts be on that and she simply came
00:24:38 back to me and said I can't say well I said maybe that's something worth thinking about and just
00:24:45 left it there you know and I don't think we need to kind of feel we've argued something out of
00:24:50 somebody we don't need to make them say what we want them to say you know that's not our job but
00:24:56 I think to pose the right questions and let people think them through in their own time of course
00:25:01 most people won't suddenly change their mind on the spur of the moment if they change their mind
00:25:05 at all that's between them and God that's not our job you know I know St. Bernadette used to say you
00:25:10 know my job is to say the truth it's it's not to make you believe it's just to tell you you know
00:25:14 and I think that's our job as pro-lifers as long as we're doing it very charitably and we do need
00:25:19 to be careful about that obviously for coming across in a very harsh way then that's that is
00:25:23 our fault as well but if we're doing something compassionately and charitably not in a self
00:25:28 righteous way and somebody doesn't accept that that isn't our problem you know um so it's just
00:25:33 kind of to use the well-worn phrase just to sow those seeds um and let people respond to them as
00:25:41 they will but don't feel we need to say any more than that and like i say when i came across that
00:25:46 reply of what you know i just can't say then we just leave it there and let them think about why
00:25:52 they can't say because they know that they know why they can't say really and that's what they
00:25:56 need to think about beautiful um there are at least in the movement here and i know over there
00:26:03 it's the same there's basically a lack of teaching on this uh from the pulpits would
00:26:12 What would you say to your priests, to the pastors?
00:26:18 How should they address this?
00:26:20 And should they address it?
00:26:21 Because right now, not many of them do.
00:26:24 I work with March for Life.
00:26:25 I'm one of the directors at March for Life.
00:26:26 And we actually run training sessions for priests, for pastors, for deacons, seminarians.
00:26:32 We've had quite a few bishops come along in ministering to those who've been impacted by abortion,
00:26:38 but also looking at how we can effectively become like pro-life parishes and how we can talk about
00:26:45 this and and I've actually felt quite humbled when we've run these sessions and actually really asked
00:26:52 these these pastors these you know priests bishops whoever they are you know why maybe this isn't
00:26:59 talked about anymore and so often I find it actually can come from a good place a lot of
00:27:04 them are saying you know um i don't want to hurt women in my pews who've already been impacted by
00:27:10 abortion um i know there's a lot of people in my parish who who have had abortions i've heard this
00:27:15 in confession and i'm worried i'm going to make it worse you know and that's not a bad thing to
00:27:20 be thinking you know it's it's a good sentiment but of course they're coming to the wrong conclusion
00:27:25 because silence is certainly not helping the issue in fact that is what's making it worse
00:27:29 and so we try and give them the tools that they need and the confidence that they need
00:27:34 which is often a key thing, to be able to talk about this.
00:27:38 I mean, just like anyone else, they can fall into that trap
00:27:42 of listening to what the world is saying.
00:27:44 Oh, men can't talk about this, and this isn't something for men to be saying.
00:27:50 We hear this so much from those who not only support abortion,
00:27:54 but we can actually hear it sometimes from those who are pro-life.
00:27:57 It's always like, oh, push the woman to the front to talk about this issue.
00:28:01 It's best that we have a woman there.
00:28:04 And yet men are just as capable of talking about this issue as women are, you know.
00:28:10 And in fact, I think sometimes, you know, men have a very special place in this.
00:28:14 You know, there's a lot of women who are considering abortion because they've been let down by men or maybe never had a man who really cares about them.
00:28:23 They're just being used by men. And so when you get men encountering them who really do care about them, that can be transformative.
00:28:31 You know, so it's an incredible thing when men really speak about this issue properly. It can make such a key difference. And I also think sometimes that, you know, when I'm talking to priests, they can say, I'm really happy for women to talk to me about this issue or for men to talk to me about this issue.
00:28:49 and I have to say the problem is everyone doesn't know that you might think that I'm happy for
00:28:55 people to bring this up in confession how do people know that you know is there a post to
00:29:00 the church is it in your newsletter is it is ever brought into maybe the bidding prayers
00:29:05 in your mass you know um and and maybe as as as and when into into the homily um and actually
00:29:15 using that word abortion again I know priests who you know actually have shied away from that word
00:29:21 in the past because they've you know sensed that it might make people feel uncomfortable
00:29:25 and they're right to a certain degree it might make some people feel uncomfortable
00:29:30 but that again isn't necessarily a bad thing you know I work very closely with the organization
00:29:37 Rachel's Vineyard which you know helps to minister to those who've been impacted by abortion
00:29:42 and I know I was talking um to a woman who happens to be named Rachel she didn't start
00:29:48 the organization but um she's one of the the leaders here in the UK of of Rachel's Vineyard
00:29:54 and she was telling me how she actually met somebody who um this woman had gone to church
00:30:01 and the priest had spoken about abortion this woman got very very angry she she herself had
00:30:08 had an abortion or abortions and at the end of mass she told that priest what she thought you
00:30:13 know how how dare you talk about this how dare you bring it up and um thankfully the priest was
00:30:18 um wise enough to suspect that maybe this woman had personally been impacted by abortion
00:30:24 and he told her about rachel's vineyard but again she just responded in a very negative way
00:30:30 but she did go home and contact rachel's vineyard initially just to tell them how angry she was that
00:30:38 this had been mentioned but of course those people were were capable of dealing with that issue you
00:30:44 know they're the professionals in this and the long and short of it was she ended up coming on
00:30:49 a rachel's vineyard retreat she got amazing healing um and she's found peace with god she's
00:30:54 reconciled you know with with her with her faith and i don't think yet she has gone back to her
00:31:01 priest so whoever that poor priest is probably thinking oh you know me and my big mouth she's
00:31:06 she got so angry with me and of course that is often the first response to truth is is anger
00:31:12 but that doesn't mean we've done something wrong quite the opposite it can often mean we've done
00:31:17 something right and it's only when maybe for the 20th time when somebody's heard the word abortion
00:31:23 and they felt uncomfortable they might think why do I feel so uncomfortable when someone just
00:31:29 prays about those who've been hurt by abortion because objectively that isn't anything that's
00:31:34 that should make me feel uncomfortable you know and at some point that might twig and they might
00:31:40 think you know what I need to deal with this I can't keep just pushing it further down and pushing
00:31:45 it away and ignoring it you know so yes we do need to talk about this issue and and I'm I'm very
00:31:52 grateful for the priests i know who do deal with this i mean in birmingham we run a 40 days for
00:31:56 life campaign outside um just outside the buffer zone we have a rota of priests so that each day
00:32:02 there's a different priest coming along to to do like the prayers of minor exorcism there you know
00:32:07 deliverance prayers um and you know we have support from our bishop last well um yeah this
00:32:15 year at march for life we had 15 bishops coming along to the march life so i think we're beginning
00:32:21 to see, um, you know, a surge, not only in people coming to the church, which a lot of people have
00:32:27 spoken about, but within the church as well. And it may be not as quick as we want and as much as
00:32:32 we want, but I think, I think there are those rumblings there and it's, it's really beginning
00:32:37 to start. Well, Isabel, I'm sure there's been many people who might've been, um, upset with
00:32:43 you or angry with you over the years, but you've stuck it out and, uh, you're proof positive that
00:32:47 it certainly works thank you so much for joining us god bless you god bless you too and thank you
00:32:53 very much and god bless all of you and we'll see you next time
00:32:56 aloha everyone this is jason jones for life side news we hope you enjoyed this video for more
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00:33:18 Thanks for watching and may God bless you.