00:07:47.680And that's why I'm not even a big fan of calling the traditional Latin Mass
00:07:50.300the Tridentine Mass, it was crystallized in a way of not going beyond any boundaries. There were
00:07:56.500certain guardrails put on the traditional Latin Mass in the 16th century by Pope Pius V. But
00:08:02.440really a better term would be the Gregorian Mass, since it was especially crystallized by the 6th
00:08:08.100century. But again, there was actually a production by Notre Dame, the one in Indiana, that shows that
00:08:14.280the Roman canon was already in Greek by the second century. So one reason is the antiquity of all of
00:08:21.820this. The other reason is faith, morals, and discipline are baked into the traditional Latin
00:08:27.480Mass. And in some sense, there's really no such thing as traditional Catholicism. I'm not saying
00:08:32.320people who can't get to the traditional Latin Mass are not Catholics, because God knows there's
00:08:37.200millions of Catholics in Africa and Asia, much holier than me. I'm not saying these people aren't
00:08:42.880Catholic. But in some sense, there's really no such thing as traditional Catholicism. You're
00:08:47.140either Catholic or you're not. And this is why on my website, I frequently call this1.00
00:08:50.980apostolic Catholicism. So what has the church taught for 2,000 years? Could you go to a Latin
00:08:58.100mass and actually hear a priest preach synodality, procontreception, the notion that, say, the faith
00:09:06.180chain? You could. Maybe that's happened once or twice since the council, but I've never heard it.
00:09:11.980So I think one reason people go is if you bring your five kids or 10 kids to Mass, not only are they going to see worship that honors God, that honors the Trinity, the sacrifice, which is Calvary, represented on the altar in a way that is fitting to it, but you're not going to have to drive home in your big white homeschooling van and revamp everything the priest said in the sermon because you didn't trust what he said.
00:09:37.200So for some reason, you know, I've known a lot of families who, yeah, we have to go
00:09:41.940to the Novus Ordo, but we always have to drive home and make corrections to what the priest
00:09:57.520One of the things I think for a lot of beginners, the fact that the Roman canon can be used
00:10:03.060still in the Novus Ordo. It's canon number one, but that's actually not that frequent because
00:10:09.120it's the longer one. And so the shorter ones get used, two, three, and four, whatever it is.
00:10:13.840So that's interesting in and of itself, the facing of the tabernacle so that the priest
00:10:18.960doesn't have his back to God and so on and so forth. There's a lot more reverence. Once beyond
00:10:23.620the initial understanding, okay, now there's a bunch of traditionalists, if you want to call
00:10:29.080that those who go to the traditional Latin mass. And if you can get a little bit into that, but
00:10:33.140then start to lay out for us the different arguments from these different groups so we can
00:10:37.380get an understanding what's going on. The basics of my article, without getting me in too much
00:10:41.720trouble, and I say that in the sense of I don't want to start fights online and I want to keep
00:10:46.900myself out of trouble. So I'm going to stay very objective. And what I'm going to do is just
00:10:50.220give the best argument that I know from within each group and then say what their quote unquote
00:10:57.020enemies from, say, across the traditional aisle might criticize in them. So I'm going to try to
00:11:03.420go third person here a little bit. But basically, what the debates online all boil down to,
00:11:09.580and I was telling you before we started, if I was Cardinal Cupich or Father James Martin looking at
00:11:14.660traditional Twitter, I'd be like, I don't have to rip on any of these people because they're
00:11:18.560constantly consuming each other. They're constantly ripping on each other. So I don't even have to,
00:11:23.640jump in. But me highlighting the positives and the negatives of all these groups, I also don't
00:11:29.380want to make it sound like I'm above them all, like I figured out something they haven't. Because
00:11:33.860I understand, I've looked very intensely at all these different arguments. And it's precisely
00:11:40.200because I think there are holes in each argument, why I think we should be charitable. I'm not going
00:11:45.680to poke holes in all these and then say, oh, and then here's my theory, why I'm so much holier and
00:11:52.160better because I'm just as confused as the next person. I'm just kind of finally admitting I'm
00:11:57.300confused. So I'm not claiming to be above everybody. But if I had to boil it all down
00:12:02.320to one question, it would be, why does God allow modernism in Rome? Why does God allow modernism
00:12:09.140in Rome? And so let's look at the three groups, the former Ecclesia Dei groups like FSSP and then
00:12:15.380SSPX, and then Sedevacontists, and then Interanimus, those who believe Benedict did not resign
00:12:22.480properly. So maybe among those four. I'll try to go through quickly. So the positive of the former
00:12:28.000Ecclesia Dei groups is they have the Latin Mass, they teach the traditional teaching, and they are
00:12:35.040canonically regular with the local diocese. Now, the negative for them is that they claim to be
00:12:44.800totally on board with everything in Vatican II. That's the public official position. But when you
00:12:50.920talk to them privately, they usually admit there are errors in Vatican II. So the thing I put in
00:12:57.500my article is it's very, we all want to be obedient to a chain of command. That's an excellent
00:13:03.860positive, but to be publicly dishonest is a lie. And I think that's what SSPX would hold against
00:13:11.420FSSP. If you look at SSPX, then their argument is that we've had all modernists but valid popes,
00:13:20.920and sometimes you have to disobey popes so as to keep the faith alive. And their view is that there
00:13:26.460are errors in Vatican II, and they hold to that publicly. But the set of the contest would say to
00:13:32.700the SSPX, well, if you actually think these guys are popes, then you should obey them, because that
00:13:37.820is that's part of catholic theology um and then you have the set of a contest and they do not
00:13:42.560think there's been a valid pope since 1958 and as i put in my article internally that's a very
00:13:47.560coherent view i have friends who are set of a contest that's a very internally coherent view
00:13:52.460but it fails to answer how vatican one which is infallible claims that there are going to be
00:14:00.180perpetual successors to saint peter and then you have the interanimous who would say to them
00:14:05.200that three years of no pope is very different from 70 years of no pope. The set of a contest
00:14:13.100will say to the interrenumists, yeah, but that's arbitrary. But then an interrenumist will say back
00:14:17.600to a set of a contest, yeah, but God uses common sense. That whole accusation of arbitrary doesn't
00:14:23.360hold any weight. I guess we're getting way too much in the weeds. These are really dorky terms
00:14:27.040for inside baseball for people who don't get it. But for people who have studied all of this,
00:14:32.140Again, the real question is why would God allow modernism in Rome?
00:14:37.160And so basically, instead of a contest say God would allow modernism in Rome because none of these guys are popes, SSPX would say they were valid popes, but because it was a pastoral council and there's no protection on it, that is why Vatican II went way out of bounds and took over the whole world because we have valid but modernist popes.
00:14:56.380And then FSSP would say, all the last six popes are valid, but they're misunderstood. Vatican II is valid, but it's misinterpreted. And so that's essentially where all the fighting happens is on the topic of the papacy and Vatican II, but all under this big question, why would God allow so much modernism in Rome?
00:15:19.200For those who are somewhat familiar with this, I think one easy thing to work out is, yeah, the Second Vatican Council debate is hard.
00:15:28.520There's a lot of people who argue, no, no, you can interpret it such that it's orthodox.
00:15:33.980There might be some problems here and there that need to be corrected, but really you can make it work.
00:15:40.900That's obviously the huge argument from Cardinal Muller and others who worked for what they
00:16:07.020But when it comes to the Pope's stuff, when it comes to especially Francis Leo, that starts
00:16:15.220to get really weird because at that point, even if you think they can square the circle
00:16:21.940with regard to the Second Vatican Council, when it comes to amorositia, fiducius supplicans,
00:16:28.000the death penalty, you now have this laundry list of super official teachings by the Popes
00:16:34.780that are on faith and morals that don't really leave you wiggle room. And so that's where it
00:16:41.760starts to get really concerning. And I would say that at one level, all of the traditionalists get
00:16:49.460it. And let me sort of take a step back from the clergy for a second, because the clergy might have
00:16:55.700their own thoughts, but I can tell you on the level of families, all these different groups,
00:17:02.520families that are from the sspx or the as set of agantists the interregmanists or the fssp
00:17:11.700all see this one thing if leo the 14th is not the pope he's your parish church pastor and you're in
00:17:20.640a big city parish and you're all going there and he just had james martin over and he didn't tell
00:17:27.180you much about but other than that it was great and they're in smiley photos together
00:17:31.400The week later, he let an LGBT pilgrimage through your parish holy door.0.63
00:17:38.320And he keeps appointing these associate pastors who are totally pro-homosexuality, who are for women's ordination.0.62
00:17:46.700Now he's introduced altar girls and female readers and has made them acolytes now, an official ceremony.
00:17:55.680He just told us last week that if you're not against the death penalty, you're not really pro-life.0.92
00:18:00.220is any parent let's start with the fssp who says they are popes for sure those fssp parents0.69
00:18:07.440are they ever ever going to let that pastor catechize their children and the answer is
00:18:13.820absolutely universal if they're honest with themselves the answer is no way there might
00:18:18.680be an expletive in there but that'd be the only difference at that level everybody gets it but
00:18:25.160But then when it comes to the level of the universal pastor, who's going to catechize everyone, your children included, now there's a big fight.
00:18:36.100That to me is kind of mind-blowing, but it seems to me that's definitely one of the levels where there is a togetherness in one sense, but there's all this fighting at the same time.
00:18:48.560Yeah, I remember when Francis was alive a few years ago, I was visiting a family out of state who's very, very close to FSSP.
00:18:54.020and we were talking about that Amoris Laetitia which is very clear Amoris Laetitia says if
00:18:58.580you're divorced and remarried you can receive communion without an annulment without confession
00:19:03.560without a Josephite marriage and I was telling this family about that and I said you know if
00:19:08.920the fraternity as your priests do say France is a valid pope then they're actually required to obey0.69
00:19:15.520that and the family said no no no our FSSP priest told us that even though France is a valid pope
00:19:23.700that's not magisterial that's not magisterial i said no no no you're wrong because amoris
00:19:30.620laetitia was entered into the acta apostolica sede which is magisterial so if francis was a
00:19:36.920valid pope you are required to follow the magisterium of any pope and that includes amoris
00:19:44.220laetitia which again states that those divorced remarried can and should receive holy communion
00:19:53.700without an annulment. So this is obviously sacrilegious, two sacraments, the Eucharist
00:20:00.280and marriage, a command to sacrilege, two sacraments. So this is why these things are
00:20:06.640important. This is why they are important. But on the other hand, does everyone have to come to the
00:20:12.840same conclusion to know we're going to hold to what the church has always taught? I think that's
00:20:18.880why I wrote my article, because as people debate Vatican II and the papacy a lot, what happens is
00:20:25.920people get in fights on popes versus anti-popes and everything else. But the one thing we definitely
00:20:30.700can know for sure is we always hold to Catholicism, which is not just universal. A lot of people think
00:20:38.780that which is Catholic equals universal in any specific time of, say, any church crisis in
00:20:44.760history. No, no, no. St. Vincent of Larence, he defines it very clearly that what is Catholic
00:20:49.920is that which is believed everywhere, always, and by all. In fact, the word Catholic comes from the
00:20:56.760Greek kataholos, which is according to the whole. It means believing everything of the deposit of
00:21:02.100the faith. It doesn't mean what's universally accepted. Like, okay, maybe you have a bishop
00:21:06.520in Bangkok who will pray with Muslims, and you have a bishop in South Africa who will pray with
00:21:11.360Muslims, you could say, well, this is all over the world. Therefore, since we can find bishops
00:21:16.020praying with Muslims all over the world in the year 2026, that's universal, that equals Catholic.
00:21:21.740St. Vincent of Lerens would step in and say, no, no, no. Actually, you have to compare yourself to0.68
00:21:27.92019 centuries before everything went off the rails in the 20th century. Do you think a bishop in,
00:21:34.740say, Bangkok in the 19th century would pray with Muslims? Of course not. Do you think0.85
00:21:39.440a bishop in the 17th century in Johannesburg would pray with Jews? Of course not. And this is where
00:21:46.300even if trads can't agree on the whole question of how severe of a level or do we owe obedience
00:21:53.600to Vatican II, have there been anti-popes, all these things, we can at least all agree
00:21:57.920what it means to be a traditional Catholic, which is an apostolic Catholic, which is really the
00:22:02.560only way to be Catholic if you look at what was believed for 19th centuries, is to understand
00:22:07.380that Catholic equals that which was believed everywhere, always, and by all. And I think the
00:22:14.660key word there is always. One of the conversations I had with Ed Maza, Dr. Ed Maza was writing on the
00:22:21.780belief in Our Lady as Mediatrics of All Graces, and mentioned that this is 17 times already been
00:22:30.320taught in antiquity. Popes have used that and understood that for centuries already. I thought,
00:22:35.480whoa, okay. So it's interesting, the demotion of Our Lady that was done under Pope Leo,
00:22:42.240it sort of can't count, if you will, at least according to Moses, this understanding of
00:22:46.400antiquity and how that plays out. The different counter-arguments, I think, are very interesting.
00:22:51.140So let's get into the position of those who, they don't call themselves setificantists, but
00:22:57.080those who believe that the last legitimate pope, I think, was, who would they say? Pius XII, I guess.
00:23:02.360Most of them. Some of them would say the last legitimate pope was John XXIII.
00:23:06.360One of the things is how can you have sort of seven years of no pope?
00:26:39.400So, I don't know. Those are kind of my guardrails up there. Unicum Mass is worse than abortion, and you're schismatic if you even use the A word in any discussions on these things. Clearly, we have to look at this through 2,000 years of history and with some charity. What do we really have at the end of it?
00:26:56.340the one thing we can agree on and still stand against most people who are at least baptized
00:27:01.340Catholics at one point is the words of St. Vincent Lahrens because he talks about if not only a small
00:27:06.560part of the church but even a major part of the church were to follow novelties he uses that word
00:27:12.540novelty which has the same root word as new any new theology that should ring some bells for anyone
00:27:18.100who's studied the last hundred years of all the alleged changes to the Catholic Church's teaching
00:27:22.680and faith and morals and liturgy and discipline and the other six sacraments, anytime there's
00:27:27.040novelty, anytime there's confusion, what you do is you go back to antiquity. So St. Vincent of
00:27:33.220Lerens always links antiquity to universal, as in Catholic. So Catholic always equals antiquity.0.88
00:27:42.960And I think that is where FSSP and Interrenumus and SSPX and Sedevacontists can get along on the0.85
00:27:50.12099% of the issues. I'm not saying the 1% on Pope versus anti-Pope, all that stuff is not important.
00:27:55.480It's super important, but maybe we shouldn't be in this circular firing line, and maybe we should
00:28:02.240agree on these 99% of things that unites us where Catholic equals antiquity. Hey, my friends,
00:28:11.080it's going to be a really historic night. On September the 24th, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
00:28:16.500will be beatified in St. Louis, Missouri.
00:28:45.560and there are only a few tickets left so be sure to get them while they're available. Hotel rooms
00:28:52.180are already very difficult to find. Most are already booked but LifeSite has secured a block
00:28:58.740of rooms exclusively for those who join us for the dinner. Reserve your seats today. The link
00:29:04.420is below. I look forward to seeing you in St. Louis. That's one point where it's all so obvious
00:29:13.280to everyone in those groups, as differing as they are, that we are in some kind of a period
00:29:20.940of apostasy, if you want to call it the great apostasy. We were warned of that in the scriptures
00:29:26.520over and over and over and over again. But you said something fascinating at a conference from
00:29:31.680a few years ago, we were speaking together at a conference, a women's conference. You mentioned
00:29:35.500Cardinal Chappie with regard to the secret of Fatima. And I found that most fascinating.
00:29:43.180Why don't you go ahead and tell us that story again? Cardinal Chappie was, if I remember
00:29:46.920correctly, not even a traditionalist. I don't even think he was a conservative. I think he was
00:29:50.960a pretty middle of the road or even liberal cardinal. And Cardinal Chappie admitted that
00:29:56.560the third secret of Fatima, and he had read it, was apostasy from the top down. And this is where
00:30:02.500I do think everything really comes down to Fatima because we traditionalists were often accused of
00:30:08.740being disobedient. That's the thing that we hear a lot, which really hurts because we of all people
00:30:15.700have read these old school saints who understand that without obedience, you can't be saved. And
00:30:21.640I'll be the first to say that. Your listeners are going to be shocked to know this, but I was
00:30:25.000actually in trouble in seminary for being too obedient. I'm not kidding. I got called to the
00:30:29.980Matt, because I was reading these 17th century Carmelite saints where I was doing absolutely
00:30:34.960everything I was told. Now, someone, my enemies out there would be like, oh, the pendulum swung
00:30:39.240to the other side. Now you're a Martin Luther who's not obedient on anything. But it's like,
00:30:43.180no, I realize to be disobedient will make me lose my soul. Obedience is super important.
00:30:50.860But if the people who've read the third secret, and this isn't me, so don't shoot the messenger,
00:30:56.240but the people who've read The Third Secret say it has something to do with the hierarchy losing
00:31:01.860the faith before the lay people, then that's a pretty scary conclusion on obedience because
00:31:07.320that doesn't mean it's a wash in the end. That means if you obey Amoris Laetitia, you will go
00:31:11.920to hell. That's what's being predicted here. If I were to obey fiducia supplicans, which tells me0.61
00:31:18.420to bless gay couples, I will go to hell. Not I can just do this hand wringing in my particular1.00
00:31:24.980judgment and be like, well, I didn't know about Fatima and I didn't study the whole history of
00:31:31.700the church's teaching on these things. Where Fatima really comes in for us is this isn't a
00:31:38.400wash in the end between two sides where we're all going to end up buddy-buddy in heaven.
00:31:44.120Why did Mary tell us that this was going to happen? So that we could make decisions on being
00:31:50.180obedient to antiquity. And the people out there who are going to say, well, Fiducia Supacans
00:31:54.320doesn't tell you to bless gay couples oh yes go to vatican.va and do a search for the word couples
00:32:00.280you will find it nine times nine times i sound like ferris bueller nine times in there that's
00:32:06.480how many times you will find the word couples in there so see there's a lot at stake this isn't
00:32:11.240just about pointing fingers at traditionalists i think we need to flip this pascal's wager on
00:32:15.740people's heads a little bit and say okay but if you're insisting on obedience then you better
00:32:21.900stay obedient to Amoris Laetitia, Fiducia Supacans, all these other things, and then you tell me how
00:32:27.620that goes for your particular judgment. Too often, we trads, and I include FSSP, SSP, Exeter
00:32:33.180Vacantis, Inuranimus, too often, we get taken to task on obedience. I think we need to flip that a
00:32:38.920little bit and say, are you willing to go to your particular judgment obedient to all the crazy
00:32:48.740things that are coming out of Rome. Now, if you are great, hope you're ready for being able to
00:32:54.140overturn 19 centuries. I was explaining this to a family that we were at a table in the backyard
00:32:58.640in Florida and they had a table with about 20 planks in it. And I said, we really have to
00:33:04.420realize what we traditional Catholics are holding to. I said, look at this table with 20 planks in
00:33:09.720it. I'm holding to 19 of these planks. The Holy Spirit has inspired the faith, morals, discipline
00:33:16.100of 19 of these, really 19 and a half, where there's a lot of confusion in one of these planks,
00:33:23.740really only half of these planks. So you can tell me I'm supposed to be obedient to half of this
00:33:28.500plank, but guess what? For my soul, for this whole Pascal's wager on my soul, I'm going to go with
00:33:34.580the preponderance of evidence of 19 and a half centuries on faith and morals and liturgy and
00:33:40.520discipline and the other six sacraments. If that's disobedient, then every saint, every pope,
00:33:46.200every martyr who I've ever read before 1950 has misled me. I'm not saying the people who are
00:33:53.840super obedient to Vatican II are going to hell. I'm not saying that at all. But I am saying they
00:33:59.560can't call me disobedient for holding to 19 and a half centuries of what the church has always taught.
00:34:05.600How then do you respond to the, no, no, no, you're reading it all wrong. Look, you can interpret all of these things in a way that is consistent with antiquity. But what you can't do is say, when the Holy Father gives you a specific order not to, like the recent example with the SSBX bishops, not to ordain these bishops, that's a direct order. There's no, you have to obey that.
00:34:29.680you have to be like Padre Pio. You have to just suck it up, buttercup, and be a real Catholic.0.72
00:34:36.140So even if I can't say Vatican II is the cause of all evil in the church right now,
00:34:39.640I can at least say it's the excuse because I was raised in a liberal Catholic family. I went to
00:34:44.460Jesuit high school. I went to Jesuit university. And now when I interact with people from my past,
00:34:50.640and a lot of these interactions aren't bad, I'm not demonizing anybody. But when I talk to
00:34:55.320liberal Catholics, usually the excuse for everything they believe in is Vatican II.
00:35:01.840If I can't sit here and say Vatican II was the cause of all changes, certainly any FSSP
00:35:07.860priests out there listening will say, you certainly can interpret Vatican II according
00:36:36.000And I, as a very good, obedient neocon non-trad for a decade of my life said, that's why we
00:36:45.000lost all these good priests and nuns and lay people. But then, you know, maybe 10 or 15 years
00:36:52.040later, 5-10 years into my priesthood, I studied this and I'm like, but wait a minute, in North
00:36:57.040and South America, all of our best Catholics, not our worst, this is the scary thing, our best
00:37:02.300Catholics became evangelicals. And I know there's going to be people mad at me for saying that,
00:37:06.300but I've talked to these people. They got sick of hearing liberation theology in Nicaragua and
00:37:11.160Brazil, and they went to a Bible-believing church. Did it teach the whole Bible? Of course not.
00:37:16.740They're literally missing books out of their Bible in the Protestant churches. But a lot of
00:37:21.480the best Catholics in Central South America and North America, they got tired of hearing social
00:37:27.160justice from the pulpit, and they wanted to hear why Jesus died for them. And so they got half the
00:37:33.780truth instead of the anti-truth by going Protestant. And that is how we know that it was Vatican II0.90
00:37:39.200and not the sexual revolution that got them out of these churches, because why in the world did0.91
00:37:44.220all the evangelical megachurches absolutely explode with Catholics through the 70s and 80s?0.54
00:37:50.500Did the sexual revolution not touch the evangelical churches? Did it not touch the0.84
00:37:54.280emergent churches? Did it not touch the non-denominational churches? Of course it did.
00:37:59.960So something statistically went way off the rails in the 60s.
00:38:05.020And one of the notions that, no, no, this was really the interpretation of the council. If we had a more faithful interpretation, it would have gone much better. And you can even see evidence for that. The fraternity, the FSSP that is, they're doing that. They're doing a faithful interpretation of the council, and they're much better. They compare to the, you know, Catholics of old.
00:38:28.760Yeah. So in my article, I actually quoted Francis in 2021. He said, this is a direct quote. I actually linked the Vatican news website for this. So no one can accuse me of pulling this from like a set of a contest website or something like this. This is directly from Vatican news. He said, this is the magisterium. He's talking about Vatican two, Francis on Vatican two. This is the magisterium.0.97
00:38:50.700the council is the magisterium of the church. Either you are with the church and therefore you
00:38:56.060follow the council, and if you don't follow the council or you interpret it in your own way as
00:39:01.580you desire, you do not stand with the church, end quote. Now we know Cardinal Bergoglio, when Pope
00:39:07.460Benedict was pope, we know he stood firmly against his hermeneutic of continuity. So when he said
00:39:14.460in 2021, if you don't follow counsel or you interpret it in your own way, we know by context
00:39:21.620of everything he said, say, against Pope Benedict and the Regensburg Address, we know by context,
00:39:27.420he meant a new magisterium started. And if you reject 1965 onwards, you are rejecting the
00:39:35.560magisterium. So we know what I'm saying is accurate because it's being said from all the way0.90
00:39:42.440far left to all the way far right it's only the squishy middle neocons in the middle that's
00:39:49.160that still say you can interpret it i mean so let's be honest francis truly was the death knell
00:39:54.560to pope benedict's hermetic of continuity it is dead it was a nice try i tried it for
00:39:59.860six years in seminary and seven or eight years of my priesthood but the fact is um we've been
00:40:06.640told it's done my very next line in the article was notice he is clearly saying that conservatives
00:40:11.520who interpret the council differently from him are now going against his magisterium.
00:40:17.920Implied in this is that Vatican II, including religious indifferentism, is the exclusive
00:40:58.660And I remember this, the whole field of theologians, when Amoris de Titia came out, before the
00:41:04.340Acta came out, they did this whole mental gymnastics exercise of justifying or squaring
00:41:10.620the Amores de Tizia with previous church teaching. I guess they figured they had done a good job so
00:41:16.800that they could, in conscience as pastors and so on, teach it, but to their own interpretation.
00:41:24.320And then came out the Acta Apostola de Queseres, which you mentioned formerly. And in it, it was
00:41:29.740noted that the Argentinian bishop's interpretation, which was the one that went against all former
00:41:34.940church teaching, allowing for divorce, remarriage, communion, no annulment, and no living incontinence,
00:41:40.220it was said in there is the only interpretation. So the only correct interpretation, and there it
00:41:44.660is again, the same language of, ah, ah, ah, you can't have it another way. In fact, the document
00:41:50.600also calls it authentic magisterium. Francis putting his papal stamp on to that very obviously
00:41:57.680heretical or, if you want to call it, breaking with the past interpretation. Just the language
00:42:02.880struck me that he would say, no, the only interpretation is this. Well, the only
00:42:06.420interpretation of Amoris Laetitia was the one that was ruled out, or is ruled out, by those who
00:42:13.240stick to, as St. Lawrence would say, Vincent Lawrence would say, the ancient tradition of
00:42:20.820the Church. And I think it's important to point out, we've had 20 dogmatic councils that have
00:42:25.540had infallible statements. And I want to read what Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI said about
00:42:32.380Vatican II. Now, I know set of the contents aren't going to like me saying this because they don't
00:42:36.000think these two are valid popes, but SSPX will frequently quote these two lines from the two
00:42:42.240popes in the 60s. And I think it's important to show what they said. So this is Pope John XXIII
00:42:47.440in Gaudet, Mater Ecclesia. He said this on the 11th of October, 1962. He says,
00:42:51.760this is speaking about the beginning. He was ushering us into Vatican II. John XXIII said,
00:42:57.960there will be no infallible definitions. All that was done by former councils. That is enough.
00:43:03.680Pope John XXIII, 11th of October, 1962. And then closing Vatican II, Pope Paul VI said,
00:43:10.720the magisterium of the church did not wish to pronounce itself under the form of extraordinary
00:43:15.300extraordinary dogmatic pronouncements. So right there, they're telling us that there was no
00:43:21.620anathema statements. And those traditionally are the only ones that are infallible. Not every word
00:43:26.840of Trent is infallible. I thought every word of Trent and Florence and Toledo was infallible up
00:43:32.200to a few years ago. Only anathema statements are considered to be infallible. So right there,
00:43:38.640they're basically saying there are no infallible statement. Now I know the response back that it's
00:43:44.000still, you know, it was a pastoral council that must be accepted, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:48.200I've heard it all through my mainstream seminary. But those are two important quotes to show
00:43:53.120this was different from a dogmatic council. Again, set of the contest don't like that because they
00:44:00.100want to point to the fact these two were anti-popes and it doesn't matter what they say.
00:44:04.900But provided you accept those two as popes, I think those are extremely, very, very important
00:44:10.740quotes to see, Vatican II cannot be your reason for overhauling everything we once believed as
00:44:17.600Catholics. Here's an interesting thing that I just saw over at Integrity Magazine, Stephen Cox's new
00:44:22.360publication. He points out that Monsignor Joseph Clifford Fenton, a parietist, that's a theological
00:44:29.320expert at the Second Vatican Council, his council diaries were recently fully digitized, and he
00:44:36.120points this out. So Monsignor Fenton, again, a preetist, that means an expert at the council,
00:44:41.220wrote in his diary on October 31st, 1962, during the council, and I quote,
00:44:47.740this is going to mark the end of the Catholic religion as we have known it.
00:44:52.200There will be vernacular masses, and worse still, there will be some wretched theology in the
00:44:58.420constitutions. If I did not believe God, I would be convinced that the Catholic Church was about
00:45:04.000to end. Yeah, Stephen did great work on that. I think first it was found by Mario over at Nova
00:45:09.640Sordo Watch. He did a lot of good work on finding Father Fenton's work. Father Fenton was a priest
00:45:16.180of the Diocese of Springfield, Massachusetts. I think another surprise for anyone who follows
00:45:21.540me out there is I'm not actually against the fact there was a Vatican II. I read the original
00:45:25.920schema or schemata. I can't remember if they're called schema or schemata, but I spent a few hours
00:45:29.840actually reading what was originally planned, and it was very good. It talked about the inerrancy
00:45:36.100of scripture, it talked about the role of Our Lady. So again, I'm not against the fact there
00:45:40.520was a Vatican II. What we know historically, this isn't conspiracy theory stuff, what we know
00:45:45.700historically, you can find this on Roratecelli, that when Cardinal Ottaviani, this is one of a
00:45:51.340dozen examples, Cardinal Ottaviani stood up to show some opposition to a very small minority
00:45:57.240of bishops hijacking the council, they literally unplugged his microphone and laughed him out of
00:46:03.280the hall, right? Is this the work of the Holy Spirit? Does this show how something is gilded
00:46:08.940as infallible? And so thanks be to God, we have Monsignor Fenton's journal showing something went
00:46:14.620way off the rails. That's why I think it's very protective that we have those quotes from John
00:46:18.900the 23rd and Paul the 6th to show this thing may carry no weight at all, according to their own
00:46:24.600words, at least if we're looking at this through what's to be considered infallible. And I'm just
00:46:30.460shocked there wasn't more people like Archbishop Lefebvre, Monsignor Fenton, who didn't say,
00:46:36.760isn't this going to just take everything off the rail? You know, I've seen a lot of people
00:46:41.840ripping on Archbishop Lefebvre on Twitter lately saying he signed the initial documents of Vatican
00:46:46.480II. Yeah, but he was ripping on Vatican II the rest of his life. So that's not really proof of
00:46:51.780anything. Just because he didn't catch that something was off track at the very beginning
00:46:59.220doesn't mean he was a bad guy. It also doesn't mean he supported it. Someone can change their
00:47:04.660mind, especially as they see where something's going. I'm sure someone like Monsignor Fenton
00:47:09.820or Archbishop Lefebvre who went, why would he think that something bad was going to happen?
00:47:15.180You get the Pope, all the bishops, all these holy people together. Why would you think something
00:47:20.300bad's going to happen. But it was quite a small minority that took over. And I think it's because
00:47:27.020the good guys were weak. That's why one of the only bumper stickers I have on my car is from
00:47:30.740Ronald Reagan. All that's required for evil to take over is for the good to do nothing.
00:47:34.920I think there was a lot of good bishops and cardinals at Vatican II, and they let 10%
00:47:39.720of the ultra liberals take over. And then they called that the work of the Holy Spirit.
00:47:44.680Now that we've heard a lot of the arguments of all the different factions, if you will, the counters, the holes they have in their arguments, the lines of common understanding, belief, but also their important differences.
00:48:00.000Mind you, the differences being the 1% and the commonalities being the 99%.
00:48:04.560What is your pitch to them for the need for some charity right now?
00:48:10.340I think it was our Lord who told us in the end, or in the scriptures anyway, charity will grow cold.0.99
00:48:16.940It certainly seems there's a lot of that right now, watching Bishop Paprocki tell the SSPX, they're just Protestants now.0.99
00:48:27.480The difficulty with the, when you know the faith, and that 99% is you, you also know how to hurt your brothers in the faith in the worst way.0.73
00:48:39.640That jibe about you are so disobedient, you're not like Padre Pio, that hurts.0.61
00:48:46.280Saying you're just like Protestants, that hurts.
00:51:20.320But when I hear that story, it's like, I want God's own judgment to me to be very merciful, meaning I better be extremely careful with accusations like you're a Protestant or you're schismatic or whatever.
00:51:34.460Because what happens is I'm increasing the scrutiny with which I will approach my own particular judgment.
00:51:42.380The measure with which you measure will be measured unto you.
00:51:45.220That is our Lord's own promise about our particular judgment.
00:51:48.460Thank you so much, Father, for joining us. If you want to check out all the Father's work, go to PadrePeregrino.org. And last thought for you, Father, why Padre Peregrino? What's that name?
00:51:59.080So a few days ago was the feast of St. James. And in 2011, I walked it with a bunch of students
00:52:04.860from University of Colorado. And in 2015, I walked it with a bunch of students from
00:52:08.300Colorado State University. And one of those two times, I just started a blog because of walking
00:52:15.500the Camino of Santiago across Spain. So Padre means father, Peregrino means pilgrim. It sounds
00:52:20.800a little cooler in Spanish than English. Padre Peregrino in English sounds like I need like a
00:52:24.680buckle hat and a bugle gun or something like that. But it was really just a thing for a couple of
00:52:30.480friends and family to follow me walking the Camino across Spain and nobody even looked at it. And
00:52:35.380then when I turned it into like a church reform blog, all these, you know, tens of thousands of
00:52:40.400people started reading it. But, you know, friends and family apparently didn't want to read it when
00:52:44.520I was just talking about walking across Spain. So it was just basically a little travel log that