The John-Henry Westen Show - Unite the Clans： Michael Matt on Catholicism in the time of Pope Francis

00:00:00.000 Welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show coming to you from the streets of Rome and we are very pleased to have with us Michael Matt. Stay tuned.

00:00:30.000 Let us begin as we always do with the sign of the cross in the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

00:00:41.340 Michael Matt needs no introduction to almost anyone, especially not to you, but I'll do that anyway.

00:00:47.500 Michael Matt is the editor of The Remnant, comes from the oldest Catholic publishing newspaper in the United States,

00:00:56.800 and he's just an awesome Catholic, a man of great faith, a defender of tradition and of the ancient faith.

00:01:03.480 And he's been so motivational to so many of you, to me.

00:01:07.620 It's a great privilege for me to have Michael on the show. Welcome, Michael. Thank you.

00:01:11.160 Sure. Thank you.

00:01:12.960 So why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got where you are today, your family history.

00:01:18.480 I was so interested in that when I first heard about it. Where does Michael Matt come from?

00:01:22.940 Well, it's kind of a long line of cantankerous Catholics over the years who believe in defending the faith. 1.00

00:01:30.020 My great-great-grandfather started the newspaper Der Wanderer, which was the German language version of The Wanderer,

00:01:37.660 which is the oldest weekly Catholic magazine in the United States.

00:01:41.220 My great-grandfather was a Knight of St. Gregory, and they were all Catholic journalists.

00:01:48.040 My grandfather and great-grandfather saw their mandate as having come directly from Leo XIII,

00:01:53.360 who commissioned the German, especially the German journalists and the ones especially that had gone to the United States,

00:01:58.200 to defend the German immigrants against the ideas of the German Enlightenment and Freemasonry and so forth.

00:02:03.920 And so there's a long history in our family of defending the papacy, defending the pope.

00:02:08.580 And it's interesting because my father then was the editor of The Wanderer for a number of years.

00:02:12.460 The Vatican Council came along and divided the two brothers over the crisis in the church.

00:02:18.260 And that's when my father founded The Remnant, which is the oldest traditional Catholic newspaper in the world.

00:02:22.840 And it's interesting because I feel that heritage even to this day in that what my lineage is,

00:02:28.820 is to stand strong in defense of the papacy and in defense of the pope.

00:02:33.080 And so I get in a lot of trouble, for example, for insisting on calling Francis His Holiness, Your Holiness,

00:02:38.080 because we need to protect the office of the papacy no matter what.

00:02:41.520 The office is ours.

00:02:42.880 That belongs to all of us as Catholics.

00:02:45.000 And no matter what happens with the man sitting in the office, we need to do what we can to defend the office

00:02:49.180 because another man is going to come along and fill those shoes.

00:02:51.900 So even today, when it becomes a little bit more necessary to be critical of what's happening here in the Vatican,

00:02:56.840 it's necessary still, and I know you agree with this,

00:02:59.260 to do whatever we possibly can to maintain respect for the office, even though we're in the middle.

00:03:03.600 I don't know what you think, but I think we're in the middle of the worst crisis in the church,

00:03:06.600 possibly with the exception of the Aryan heresy.

00:03:09.060 But I would argue, I think we're even surpassing that at this point.

00:03:11.900 Yeah, I think so, because as some historians have told me, at least the Aryan heresy, it was only one heresy.

00:03:17.520 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:18.420 So your genesis, therefore, is very steeped in the faith.

00:03:24.800 But the controversy around Michael, Matt, the perhaps persona that others have given you,

00:03:30.180 is someone who's really radical.

00:03:32.420 But in my conversations with you, I found you most non-radical.

00:03:36.960 In fact, a lot of people think that you go to only an SSBX parish,

00:03:41.280 and it's so much so that you'd condemn anybody for doing it differently.

00:03:44.640 What's the story there?

00:03:45.480 I think it just goes back to a certain perception that we as traditional Catholics,

00:03:52.160 one of these days, one of these years, we're going to be able to dispense with that traditional,

00:03:56.880 because if you're a Catholic, you're already, it's sort of redundant to say a traditional Catholic.

00:04:00.720 Of course we're Catholic.

00:04:02.000 Of course we're traditional Catholic.

00:04:03.700 So I think it goes back to that, that the idea that we're more Catholic than everybody else,

00:04:08.280 we're holier than everybody else, because we're taking a strong stand.

00:04:11.020 But what I always hasten to remind people of is that you shouldn't care at all what I think

00:04:16.960 about the matters of the faith, other than a conviction and trying to become a saint

00:04:20.900 and become more holy.

00:04:21.600 Sure, I'll tell you that all day long.

00:04:22.720 But as far as how do we stand and resist, it doesn't matter what I think needs to be resisted.

00:04:27.480 A Catholic, this goes back again, my fathers, grandfathers, great-grandfathers all along

00:04:31.580 stood with the teaching of the church.

00:04:33.300 And that's the only authority that we know as faithful soldiers of Jesus Christ.

00:04:37.600 We don't have the authority from within other than in our adherence and our defense of tradition.

00:04:42.740 So over the past 50 years, and again, everything that's happening in the church today didn't

00:04:46.580 start with Francis with the problems.

00:04:48.120 It goes way back.

00:04:49.000 It goes beyond Vatican II.

00:04:50.300 I mean, Pope St. Pius X was talking about the invasion of modernism, which is the synthesis

00:04:55.160 of all heresies, well over 100 years ago.

00:04:58.160 An invasion into the church.

00:04:59.160 Into the church.

00:04:59.740 And he uses the term, at the heart and bosom of the church, you have the synthesis of all

00:05:03.420 heresies already.

00:05:04.700 So it began a long time ago.

00:05:06.060 But let's face it, it came out of the closet to a large degree at the Second Vatican Council.

00:05:10.320 And so what you had, like with my father at the Second Vatican Council, was a certain

00:05:13.920 horror.

00:05:14.900 Because the very things, the very ideas that his father and his grandfather had been

00:05:19.120 defending, you know, defending the church, defending against, were now suddenly coming

00:05:23.180 from the middle of this city.

00:05:24.320 We're coming from the Vatican.

00:05:25.900 In other words, there had been a breaching of the walls.

00:05:27.780 He'd gotten over the walls.

00:05:28.740 The fort had been betrayed, not by everyone, but to an extent, had been betrayed in very high

00:05:33.240 positions.

00:05:33.680 And so those errors now were coming from the church.

00:05:36.800 And it broke their hearts.

00:05:38.100 That's the thing I always want to stress.

00:05:39.400 With the pioneer traditional Catholics like my father, like Michael Davies, like Archbishop

00:05:42.640 Lafayette, it broke their hearts to be at odds with this town, with the Vatican, with the

00:05:48.200 Pope.

00:05:48.700 They always remain loyal, a loyal opposition to the Pope.

00:05:51.320 But still, to be in any way standing against the Vatican is not a comfortable place for any

00:05:55.620 good, solid Catholic, faithful Catholic to be.

00:05:58.020 So I understand people think, well, who does Michael Matt think he is?

00:06:00.840 You know, who does he think he is?

00:06:01.700 And I say, I'm nobody.

00:06:03.060 I'm nobody.

00:06:03.540 All I'm saying is, I was taught in Catholic schools by Catholic nuns, and probably of 0.99

00:06:07.760 the last generation remembers the old Catholic nuns.

00:06:10.460 I was taught the catechism very carefully.

00:06:12.520 I'm well catechized in eight, 12 years of Catholic school.

00:06:15.780 And how can that change?

00:06:17.960 That can't change.

00:06:18.820 So when I go out into the world, I have seven children to raise my children.

00:06:22.140 I remember what was taught by Mother Church.

00:06:24.840 And those things are in here forever.

00:06:26.380 Please, God.

00:06:27.560 And so when I run into priests, bishops, even popes now, who seem to be sending a different

00:06:32.060 message or certainly a confusing message that goes contrary to that catechetical, fundamental

00:06:36.180 instruction in the faith.

00:06:37.180 I don't know what the alternative is other than to respectfully resist.

00:06:42.000 This cannot be right because either everything that was taught for 1,965 years in the church

00:06:47.720 was right or it was wrong.

00:06:49.360 And if what we're hearing so often today is right, that means almost two millennia of church

00:06:54.340 teaching was wrong.

00:06:55.500 And the faith is supposed to be reasonable.

00:06:57.380 That's not reasonable.

00:06:58.640 It's like Martin Luther. 0.75

00:06:59.440 How could he be right to say that no Catholic actually got it right until the 1500s?

00:07:05.500 Before that, it was all messed up with regard to the papacy and the mass.

00:07:08.700 It makes no sense.

00:07:09.420 There's discontinuity then back to the time of Christ and to the apostolic times.

00:07:12.840 Same thing with the Vatican Council.

00:07:15.180 That said, I think it's very unfortunate that we do have what's kind of known as the ugly

00:07:19.700 traditionalist, someone who is out there all the time just telling everybody off, stopping

00:07:23.180 people in the middle of their lunches and yelling at them and berating them.

00:07:26.080 That's not the way it is.

00:07:27.060 We know from Sister Lucy that there's a diabolical disorientation in the church.

00:07:31.380 So as Catholics, we have to love people back to Christ, love them to tradition, and take

00:07:36.500 into account that diabolical disorientation, which leaves them oftentimes very lost and

00:07:41.200 confused, you know?

00:07:43.120 So what about a ton of people who really can't access the traditional mass at all?

00:07:50.420 I come from Canada.

00:07:51.700 In my area, we have maybe once a month.

00:07:53.860 But really no real access to the traditional Latin mass.

00:07:58.220 You know, we try and make our herishes as best possible.

00:08:02.260 I guess we could never consider ourselves traditionalist.

00:08:04.980 I disagree.

00:08:06.420 Yeah, I disagree.

00:08:07.320 Because, again, of the diabolical disorientation.

00:08:11.020 So I know, for example, very good priests who are not in a position to say the Latin mass.

00:08:15.640 I know some young priests who simply haven't learned it yet, but in their hearts are absolutely

00:08:19.240 committed to the idea of liturgical restoration.

00:08:21.660 I know middle-aged priests who have woken up.

00:08:23.920 They realize there's a problem.

00:08:25.040 Now, guess what?

00:08:25.940 They have two, three, 400 families that they can't just run off and join a society and leave

00:08:30.320 all those families behind.

00:08:32.580 And so they have a crisis.

00:08:33.980 What do I do?

00:08:34.760 Do I abandon the flock?

00:08:36.660 Do I gradually try to get the bishop to allow me to have the Latin mass?

00:08:39.140 So in other words, they're already, heart and soul, they're already with us.

00:08:42.060 They're already traditional.

00:08:43.080 I would say tradition-minded Catholics.

00:08:45.320 But certainly, arguably, they're traditionalists.

00:08:47.680 They want to come back.

00:08:48.960 But the infrastructure is such that it's very difficult to do that.

00:08:52.020 And it's the same for a lot of families who say, you know what?

00:08:54.620 I just can't imagine sleeping in on Sunday morning.

00:08:57.920 I know there's something inherently wrong with the mass, local parish mass.

00:09:01.640 I just can't sleep in on a Sunday morning.

00:09:03.680 And that's between them and God and the good priests that they can find.

00:09:06.740 I would never try to tell someone where they're supposed to go to mass.

00:09:09.800 All I can do is say, this is what I do.

00:09:11.460 I don't go to the new mass.

00:09:12.660 I have seven children.

00:09:13.640 I don't expose them to the new mass.

00:09:15.540 All of them are now traditional Catholics.

00:09:17.280 I have some ones that are out of college already.

00:09:19.540 And I think it's partly because we took a stand.

00:09:21.440 But that stand is not to condemn everyone who's either in route to finding the traditional mass

00:09:26.580 or who just doesn't quite understand it yet.

00:09:28.740 But they're good people.

00:09:29.580 They're saying their rosary every day.

00:09:30.800 And they're trying to become saints.

00:09:32.800 It's a huge mistake for, quote, unquote, traditional Catholics to cut off that whole demographic.

00:09:37.460 So we will not be soiled by being with you.

00:09:40.200 And as I say, so many people now, especially since the crisis has really become heightened,

00:09:44.580 so many of them are seeing it.

00:09:46.120 And they really are traditionalists.

00:09:47.560 And they're trying to learn how to become traditionalists.

00:09:50.120 Let's go out and get them.

00:09:51.160 Let's not push them away by saying you're not good enough yet.

00:09:53.260 One of the things that I found really fascinating is this idea of yours, of this being a hopeful time.

00:10:01.080 Now, I've been very hopeful, too, in that all the, quote, unquote, bad news stories that we've seen,

00:10:07.640 while there is that, there's also a truth that Our Lady warned about the times when the final battle over marriage,

00:10:13.820 excuse me, the final battle between the reign of Christ and the reign of Satan would be over marriage and the family.

00:10:18.420 It seems like we're in those times, at least according to Cardinal Caffaro, who got the message from Sister Ruchia.

00:10:22.440 And also, though, in the scriptures we read, where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

00:10:27.400 More sin now than ever before.

00:10:29.300 So I feel a sense of a lot of hope.

00:10:31.580 And I've seen a lot more people taking their faith more seriously.

00:10:34.960 But you have an even, I think, a much more interesting take on that,

00:10:39.040 having struggled sort of in the trenches of traditionalism for so long

00:10:43.340 without any sort of support or recognition whatsoever.

00:10:46.640 And that's changing now.

00:10:47.540 It's changing dramatically.

00:10:48.920 And you mentioned earlier that there's this perception that traditional Catholics are oftentimes,

00:10:52.880 you know, a little bit headstrong, a little belligerent.

00:10:55.520 And that's because they were in the catacombs.

00:10:57.140 They were in the trenches.

00:10:57.960 And it was very popular to sort of, you know, attack them or say that they're us.

00:11:02.700 Say you're in schism.

00:11:04.000 You're disloyal.

00:11:05.180 You're not a good, faithful Catholic. 0.98

00:11:06.640 And so they got on defense and then sometimes get a little nasty.

00:11:09.340 It's natural.

00:11:10.360 But no, since things have happened now in the church,

00:11:13.020 we see the fulfillment of prophecy, Our Lady of Fatima, for example.

00:11:15.820 This was all predicted.

00:11:17.360 We know that in the end, her Immaculate Heart will triumph.

00:11:19.940 We know that Christ will be with us always.

00:11:21.820 And just to have this awakening, and I'm walking around this town right now,

00:11:24.380 there's a lot of sad people in this town.

00:11:25.720 There's a lot of distressed people.

00:11:26.800 There's a lot of angry people. 0.94

00:11:28.320 Michael Matt, the rat, angry trad, is smiling large 0.52

00:11:30.540 because it's really nice to see the awakening that's happening. 0.84

00:11:33.560 It's really such a grace from God to have a Cardinal Burke, for example,

00:11:37.180 who's saying, no, you're not crazy.

00:11:38.600 You're not extremists.

00:11:40.200 You're not rad trads.

00:11:41.660 You're faithful Catholics who are afraid, who are heartbroken,

00:11:44.460 who've been suffering.

00:11:45.640 And that's just, you can imagine, for especially people,

00:11:47.940 even older than me, who've been in this all their lives,

00:11:50.720 to have the acknowledgement now from high-ranking members of the church,

00:11:53.880 hierarchical members of the church, that they weren't crazy,

00:11:57.320 that this really is real, it really is bad.

00:11:59.480 And I think it had to come to this.

00:12:01.060 It's not just the human consolation of knowing that we weren't crazy

00:12:03.500 or that we weren't alone.

00:12:04.500 It's the idea that God couldn't let this go on much longer.

00:12:08.920 For the sake of the children, if nothing else, he has to intervene.

00:12:11.820 And one has the impression right now, he is, in fact, intervening through this awakening.

00:12:16.400 This awakening is coming through all across the church.

00:12:18.740 Good people are saying, okay, I think it's gone way too far.

00:12:21.580 And I think it would be a huge mistake at this point to say,

00:12:23.480 well, it's about time for traditionalists.

00:12:24.960 It's about time.

00:12:25.480 Where have you been?

00:12:25.940 Told you so.

00:12:26.480 We were right.

00:12:27.180 That's a huge mistake.

00:12:28.260 Now is the time to reach out to everybody who's beginning to see through the grace of God

00:12:32.820 and just through the nature of the revolution.

00:12:34.740 They're beginning to see the truth.

00:12:36.380 And we have a beautiful, beautiful opportunity here to bring people together.

00:12:40.520 Because if we are called to martyrdom, do you want to do martyrdom by yourself?

00:12:44.020 I don't.

00:12:44.840 But maybe if you and I know that we're going to both go up the scaffolding together,

00:12:48.220 we're going to make a pretty good show of it, even humanly speaking.

00:12:50.580 So the idea of bringing all these people together now to make a stand in favor of Christ the King,

00:12:56.120 in favor of the traditional Latin Mass, in favor of truth and sound doctrine,

00:13:00.040 there's a game afoot here.

00:13:01.220 Something's changed.

00:13:02.340 And yeah, I'm pretty excited.

00:13:03.820 Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't know.

00:13:05.060 I feel pretty excited about this opportunity.

00:13:06.880 I think it's really true.

00:13:09.020 One of the most unifying factors, actually, has been the love for Our Lady

00:13:14.040 and the traditional consecration to Our Lady.

00:13:17.600 St. Louis de Montfort's True Devotion of Mary was the means of my conversion.

00:13:20.600 And I found more and more and more that that is becoming home for people.

00:13:27.360 And it actually leads them to tradition.

00:13:29.600 Because in de Montfort's method of reception for Holy Queen, for instance,

00:13:35.320 the Dominant and Saint Genius is done three times.

00:13:37.520 The Lord, I'm not worthy.

00:13:38.460 One to the Father, one to the Son, one to the Holy Spirit.

00:13:40.860 It itself harkens back to the tradition because it came out of that.

00:13:43.960 And it makes most sense in the traditional Mass.

00:13:46.260 So when I was introduced to the traditional Mass, early on,

00:13:50.860 I wasn't paying attention because of my dad and I wasn't practicing yet.

00:13:53.840 But later, all those pieces started to fall into place.

00:13:57.100 So you've had this incredible link between Our Lady and tradition.

00:14:02.400 And what I see right now, the most faithfulness, the most uniting,

00:14:06.280 is under the banner of Our Lady.

00:14:08.120 Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:14:09.520 I've been talking to you for years about trying to convince you to come along,

00:14:12.380 bring some of your team to the Sharp pilgrimage.

00:14:14.240 And you mentioned Louis de Montfort.

00:14:15.360 I mean, he's the one, if you look back at the history of the French Revolution

00:14:18.340 and the immediate aftermath, the reason that we have the great Catholic,

00:14:22.020 the traditional Catholic uprising in the Vendée,

00:14:24.220 which basically are the forefathers of the traditional Catholics today,

00:14:27.220 the reason that we have that, the reason they're all wearing the Sacred Heart of Jesus,

00:14:30.420 the reason that the rosary was part of their battle armament,

00:14:33.380 they took it literally into battle,

00:14:35.280 was because of St. Louis de Montfort, because of the devotion,

00:14:37.240 true devotion to Our Lady.

00:14:38.480 So you can see that even now we have devotion to Our Lady is on the increase.

00:14:42.740 Devotion to the Sacred Heart is on the increase.

00:14:44.480 As a matter of fact, we have the Sacred Heart Guild at the Remnant.

00:14:46.460 Anybody wants a free lapel pin of a Sacred Heart, just like the Vondayans wore? 1.00

00:14:50.060 Let me know.

00:14:51.360 It's spreading rapidly, and people are beginning to see that that is the spiritual solution.

00:14:55.900 And that's another thing.

00:14:56.540 There's a certain joy in that, too.

00:14:58.280 This church is too big for us to fix.

00:15:00.820 It's too big for the devil to destroy, too.

00:15:02.740 The only one who can save the church is God himself.

00:15:07.300 It's his bride.

00:15:08.440 We just do our part.

00:15:09.780 But in order to do our part, we have to arm ourselves.

00:15:11.960 And I completely agree with you.

00:15:13.280 It starts with Our Lady.

00:15:14.240 And that sharp pilgrimage is where you really see all these young people coming out.

00:15:19.220 They're raising their statues and their banners to Our Lady.

00:15:21.720 It's an army.

00:15:22.280 It's a militant, peaceful, militant expression of fidelity to Our Lady.

00:15:26.040 And it's almost as if all the saints of Christendom are celebrating this, because the saints, as

00:15:30.820 you know, all the churches, especially in France, are closing them down.

00:15:33.240 They're getting rid of statues.

00:15:34.160 They're getting rid of devotion to Our Lady.

00:15:35.820 And during that pilgrimage, it all comes back.

00:15:37.720 And heaven seems to look down and sort of smile when she sees this is it.

00:15:40.760 This is what it was all about.

00:15:42.460 Simple, not childish, but childlike faith in her, in her son, in the ultimate triumph of

00:15:49.120 the Immaculate Heart.

00:15:50.220 That's the stuff that changes history.

00:15:52.260 Not necessarily the polemics.

00:15:53.160 The polemics are important.

00:15:54.060 I'm not anti-polemics. 0.92

00:15:54.840 But that's the stuff that really can motivate mountains, move faith, and change history.

00:16:00.440 And so, happy?

00:16:01.740 Yeah, I'm real happy.

00:16:02.640 Because they failed.

00:16:03.700 All of that is coming back.

00:16:04.960 It's not going away.

00:16:06.180 It's coming back.

00:16:07.280 So it's a wonderful sign that God is still with us.

00:16:10.320 The amazing thing I find is that a lot of the same players are taking part right now.

00:16:16.960 Cardinal Casper was in the debates.

00:16:19.260 Cardinal Lehmann, not Mark, but Casper and Lehmann, for sure.

00:16:24.280 They were actually part of the old debate of the Second Vatican Council, the progressivists,

00:16:29.340 if you will.

00:16:30.480 And they're back again.

00:16:32.500 These radicals, Daniels.

00:16:35.340 And it's unbelievable.

00:16:36.760 And yet, I wonder if their presence isn't also linking the current crisis to that crisis in a way that's waking people up.

00:16:46.400 I think so.

00:16:47.360 I think so, John Henry.

00:16:48.300 What we're seeing right now is sort of an ecclesiastical version of Woodstock.

00:16:53.460 Everybody's looking back at Woodstock.

00:16:54.980 And if you're old enough, it still means something.

00:16:57.140 But most people are kind of going, come on, guys.

00:16:58.900 Let's move on.

00:16:59.780 It didn't work.

00:17:00.580 The tie-dye shirt looks terrible on me.

00:17:02.000 We're kind of done with it.

00:17:03.020 And I do think you're right.

00:17:04.080 I think there's a certain...

00:17:05.100 Those figures are beginning to sort of connect to something that's become rather passe.

00:17:08.880 And I think, honestly, I think that's one of the reasons Francis, on the way back from Madagascar,

00:17:13.720 mentioned that he's not afraid of schism because, in fact, they think that might happen

00:17:17.060 because the old guard here is becoming a little bit weak.

00:17:20.260 And I don't think...

00:17:20.880 I think they've lost the ability or the confidence, anyway, that they can do whatever they want.

00:17:24.940 The Catholic people, I think, are very close to...

00:17:28.320 If not already there, they've had enough.

00:17:30.500 And I think those figures that you mentioned only help them to kind of see it as something that needs to go.

00:17:35.460 And the future, obviously, is tradition, you know, back to Catholic restoration. 0.62

00:17:40.500 That's what's filling the monasteries and the convents.

00:17:42.540 That's where all the vocations are.

00:17:43.860 That's where all the young families are.

00:17:45.060 I mean, so, so many of them.

00:17:46.500 So I think that there is a concern that tradition is going to become new again,

00:17:49.740 just as we always knew.

00:17:50.760 But isn't it wonderful to kind of live through it beginning to happen here?

00:17:53.500 It is.

00:17:54.100 What's your concept of Unite the Clans?

00:17:56.020 This has gained a lot of traction from what you said.

00:17:58.440 You have a hashtag out, Unite the Clans.

00:17:59.920 Yeah.

00:18:00.660 What's that?

00:18:01.220 I think that before, when there was more confusion, like I said earlier,

00:18:07.000 no one wants to stand against the Pope. 0.61

00:18:08.580 No one wants to, you know, be in this ridiculous position of standing against your own mother, Holy Mother Church.

00:18:12.860 But in a human element, we have to do something.

00:18:15.520 And I think before, there were all sorts of theories and ways and good strategies and bad strategies

00:18:19.220 and a lot of division over what's best.

00:18:20.740 Because literally, the shepherd had been struck, I think, it's fair to say.

00:18:24.200 And the sheep had scattered.

00:18:25.440 And so you had a lot of confusion as to what was the best way to make this Catholic counterrevolution happen.

00:18:31.300 And I think now, like I said earlier, we have this moment of clarity.

00:18:34.660 Many, many people, even here in Rome, there are many more cardinals than Cardinal Burke and Bishop Schneider

00:18:38.440 and, you know, Cardinal Serrat who are seeing the thing.

00:18:40.480 They may not be speaking out, but we know they're there.

00:18:42.780 And there's a great change happening, even in the Vatican.

00:18:46.000 I shouldn't say great, but a subtle change.

00:18:47.620 And so I think that now with the people, we have an obligation.

00:18:51.920 The princes of the church, eventually, the church is not a democracy.

00:18:56.040 It's hierarchical.

00:18:56.760 It has to come from here, this restoration.

00:18:59.120 But we need to think, put our heads together and say,

00:19:01.360 what's the best thing that we can do to help that, humanly speaking, spiritually, in every other way?

00:19:05.580 And so all the clan, all the traditional Catholics, I think they need to get together,

00:19:09.400 have a big, you know, virtual conference, if you will,

00:19:11.860 and say, okay, let's knock off this intramural squabbling like the LGBT group movement has done,

00:19:19.580 the pro-abortion movement has done, where they're all pretty focused in on a common cause.

00:19:25.140 I'm sure they're not endorsing those movements, but that strategy is effective.

00:19:27.640 That's what the Catholic Church used to do.

00:19:28.820 We're on the same page.

00:19:30.360 And I think the traditional Catholics, conservative Catholics, what should I say,

00:19:33.340 just faithful Catholics need to come together and say, let's get over ourselves.

00:19:37.960 We're not going to agree on everything.

00:19:39.200 Let's, the lay people need to come together and do whatever we possibly can to support this restoration.

00:19:45.420 Your priest might not be able to say, if you're in the Pius X Society, if you're in the fraternity,

00:19:49.500 he might not be able to say, hey, there's, you know, don't worry about it.

00:19:51.960 Go to, go, go wherever you want to the traditional Latin Mass.

00:19:54.040 I don't think we're going to ask the priest to do that.

00:19:56.260 We're talking about lay people just coming together and doing this on their own.

00:19:59.140 And what does it mean?

00:19:59.820 It's real simple.

00:20:01.100 We're supposed to be charitable.

00:20:02.440 We have to be charitable to each other.

00:20:03.760 We have to be charitable.

00:20:04.240 We have to love our enemies.

00:20:05.220 So it should be fairly easy for tradition-minded Catholics to say,

00:20:08.520 let's just stop attacking each other and see where this plays out.

00:20:11.880 You know, be dedicated to your version of how things should go,

00:20:14.280 but stop attacking the other clans who maybe don't see it quite your way at this point.

00:20:18.260 And so far, it's been taking on.

00:20:19.480 I think a lot of people are seeing this as, again, a golden opportunity to become more constructive

00:20:23.920 and less just sort of about social media and selfies and all about me and my little group

00:20:28.020 and my little blog or whatever.

00:20:29.200 There's a much bigger war to be fought.

00:20:30.780 And I think it's starting to come together.

00:20:32.720 So it's pretty exciting.

00:20:33.320 You started the Catholic Identity Conference, which was sort of reuniting the clans.

00:20:38.500 You called on Ed Penton.

00:20:40.740 You asked me to come and speak there.

00:20:42.200 You had our Diane Montagna out.

00:20:44.700 And you brought together a lot of different people.

00:20:47.200 It was my first time that I could connect with you, John Rau, and John Benari at the time.

00:20:52.280 God rest his soul.

00:20:54.680 It was beautiful.

00:20:56.080 It was my first exposure sort of to that kind of thing.

00:21:00.840 And it was really, really quite something.

00:21:03.240 Your take on it now as you've seen the Catholic Identity Conference unfold.

00:21:06.020 So it's one of the reasons the hashtag United Clans came out because the Catholic Identity Conference has been such a huge success.

00:21:11.860 And it's really important.

00:21:13.000 I know people like to make fun of it.

00:21:14.240 They say, well, you know, it's just a big group hug and, you know, we're going to put principle aside so that we can get along.

00:21:18.320 That's not what it is at all.

00:21:19.800 Again, it's based on Christian charity.

00:21:21.700 So it's important to realize that when we get, for example, the Superior, the District Superior of the United States,

00:21:27.360 Father Wagner from the Society of St. Pius X, when we get him to come to this, put everything on the line,

00:21:32.760 and we also get the Fraternity St. Peter priests, you know, the Institute priests, the Diocesan priests, they come together.

00:21:37.620 It's important for us to be very clear.

00:21:39.320 We're not trying to manipulate them.

00:21:40.840 They understand that there's a lot of suspicion and concern among the faithful.

00:21:45.060 So they're not saying, well, we don't have any differences anymore.

00:21:47.640 And they're not saying anything like that.

00:21:49.060 They're saying the enemy is advancing.

00:21:52.460 The forces of hell are moving really quick.

00:21:54.580 I think right now, especially because the whole revolution is starting to get a little shaky,

00:21:57.940 he's advancing right into our face right now.

00:22:00.020 He's trying to destroy our family, the gender of our children, everything.

00:22:03.440 So we're going to come together and see what we can do, at least on the battlefield.

00:22:08.300 If it's not going to be everywhere else, if we're not going to have all these conferences together,

00:22:11.700 work together in other ways, at least when we have a united front on the battlefield against those who hate Christ,

00:22:17.500 who hate everything that we believe, while retaining the autonomy of their various organizations.

00:22:22.380 I don't think this is a stretch.

00:22:23.920 And I think the success of the CIC is showing.

00:22:26.580 It's a desperate moment.

00:22:27.520 It's a dark time in many ways.

00:22:29.040 And so these groups are trying to say, well, let's give this a try.

00:22:32.000 Let's just see if we can show the enemy that we're ready to stand against them with the united front.

00:22:37.060 Again, autonomy always preserved.

00:22:39.340 What in that battle, in the united front battle against the forces of darkness,

00:22:44.920 what should our marching, common marching orders be?

00:22:47.440 I think it has to be, obviously, long-lived Christ the King and the rallying prize, the same as it was for the Cristeros and for the Vondians and for the Catholics in the Western uprising of England.

00:23:01.820 But I would say our marching orders go back to St. Pius X, you know, restore all things in Christ.

00:23:08.020 So not make it just a single issue.

00:23:10.220 Well, if we get the Latin Mass back, then everything's going to be fine. 1.00

00:23:13.360 That's not true.

00:23:14.240 The Latin Mass was the only mass in the Roman Rite in 1968.

00:23:17.640 And the revolution just marched right across the Catholic world anyway.

00:23:20.700 So we can't treat that as some sort of a magic talisman that's going to take care of everything.

00:23:24.120 We have to restore everything.

00:23:25.400 We have to renew ourselves.

00:23:26.360 I think that the idea of homeschooling and concentrating on the home and on the rearing of children in a truly Catholic culture,

00:23:35.240 those are the sort of marching orders.

00:23:36.960 I think restore everything, not just the Mass.

00:23:39.160 Understand that this whole revolution was supposed to destroy everything beautiful, true, and good.

00:23:44.720 So as Catholics, I think we have to go back and start restoring the traditions of every aspect of our life,

00:23:50.260 including education, child raising, yes, liturgy, the prayers, the rosary, go back to the traditional prayers.

00:23:56.960 And just take what the motto that St. Pius X gave us, restore everything in his name.

00:24:01.680 Don't be afraid to stand for Christ the King in a world that really, really hates him,

00:24:05.500 and in a world, and even a church, that thought it had triumphed over the kingship of Christ.

00:24:09.600 Clearly it hasn't because we're all still here.

00:24:11.700 So let's build on that.

00:24:12.960 The kingship of Christ is everything because that affects politics and culture and liturgy and everything.

00:24:16.900 So go back, and if you don't have an understanding of what that doctrine of the kingship of Christ is,

00:24:21.100 read your Pius XI.

00:24:22.240 Read up on what was meant by the kingship of Christ, which is a feast of the church.

00:24:25.440 It's not just a nice, pious thing to do.

00:24:28.620 It was the marching orders of Holy Mother Church during the Nazi invasion, during the Soviet occupations of Europe, Eastern Europe.

00:24:36.400 What does he say?

00:24:37.100 He doesn't say, let's get together in dialogue.

00:24:38.900 He says, turn to Christ the King.

00:24:41.100 That's what Pius XI says.

00:24:42.160 And I think, to me anyway, that presents a really good set of marching orders for us now.

00:24:46.960 Let's do that, you know?

00:24:48.100 Amen.

00:24:48.640 The only thing I add, I think, is that I think a lot of us were predicted in 1917 by Our Lady.

00:24:54.460 So one of the key elements of fighting this fight right now is what she asked us to do.

00:25:01.800 The five first Saturdays is part of that deal.

00:25:04.120 Absolutely.

00:25:04.560 We need to do that.

00:25:05.820 Michael, Matt, thank you for being with us on the John Henry Rutherford Show.

00:25:09.340 Ave Maria.

00:25:09.940 Ave Maria indeed.

00:25:10.700 We'll see you next time, everyone.

00:25:13.920 God bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - October 08, 2019

Unite the Clans： Michael Matt on Catholicism in the time of Pope Francis

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