Vatican's Most Famous Exorcist In 500 Years - Fr. Gabriele Amorth ｜ Fr. Carlos Martins Explains
Summary
In this episode of The John Henry Weston Show, Father Carlos Martins talks about a new book about one of the most famous exorcists in history, Father Gabriel Amorth. The book is called The Official Biography of the Pope's Exorcist, and it's by Italian author Domenico Agasso, available through Tan Books.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
The job of the exorcist is not to cast out the devil.
00:00:04.160
The job of the exorcist is to find out why is the devil there?
00:00:10.360
And then it's the exorcist's job to aid the victim in rescinding those rights.
00:00:16.520
Why is the devil allowed to harm us in the first place?
00:00:25.940
So many of you enjoyed the show we had with Father Carlos Martins, one of the main exorcists
00:00:33.480
He runs The Exorcist Files, which is a production actually asked for in a way by the Vatican
00:00:39.620
that shows what goes on in exorcism and true exorcism, what it's all about.
00:00:48.000
This time he's talking to us about a new book released by Tan about probably the most
00:00:55.820
famous exorcist that's lived in the past, I don't know if it's a century or what, but
00:01:00.880
Father Gabriel Amorth was the chief exorcist for Rome for decades and decades.
00:01:08.480
The book is called The Official Biography of the Pope's Exorcist, and it's by Italian author
00:01:17.840
Father Carlos Martins, The Exorcist, is here to talk to us about that.
00:01:25.820
Hey friends, this July, we at LifeSite are celebrating 25 years of service to life,
00:01:31.380
faith, family, and freedom with a gala in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
00:01:35.600
So especially for those of you who couldn't join us in the United States, LifeSite is
00:01:39.940
gathering our whole team and a few very special guests in the pro-life and pro-family movement
00:01:45.240
for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity at our newly announced 25th anniversary Canadian gala.
00:01:51.760
LifeSite's star video reporter Jim Hale will be there with an on-stage special with the
00:01:58.240
16-year-old Canadian pro-family hero Josh Alexander.
00:02:02.300
Experience LifeSite's Faith and Reason show live with Father James Altman and Liz Yore.
00:02:08.140
You'll be able to interact with our reporters from all over the world, including U.S. Bureau
00:02:13.860
Chief Doug Mainwaring, Canadian reporter Anthony Murdoch, and Rome correspondent Michael Haynes.
00:02:19.700
You'll also hear keynotes from LifeSite co-founder Steve Jelcevac and myself.
00:02:24.720
So RSVP for the 25th anniversary Canadian gala now.
00:02:29.000
And don't miss the opportunity to get a live, in-person, studio experience of LifeSite's
00:02:34.580
top news show that broadcasts every Friday at 8 p.m., Faith and Reason.
00:02:39.700
Seating is very limited, so RSVP and get your tickets today for LifeSite's 25th anniversary
00:02:46.660
Canadian gala in the beautiful Hilton Toronto Markham Hotel this July 18th.
00:02:53.360
To buy tickets for the 25th anniversary Canadian gala, visit gala25can.lifesitenews.com.
00:03:10.620
Father, if you could launch us off, please, with the sign of the cross.
00:03:13.500
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
00:03:17.460
First of all, many people will have seen our old show and know you from your show, from
00:03:23.660
But just give us a little brief thing for people who might not know.
00:03:31.920
Most people know me through either my work on Relics, which I run a ministry that
00:03:37.760
a Vatican-sponsored ministry where I travel the world, giving people an experience of
00:03:44.020
Or more recently, through my podcast, The Exorcist Files.
00:03:49.140
So I took my case studies as an exorcist, which I function in the capacity of one and have for
00:04:01.840
And if it's available anywhere where you get your podcasts, if you don't know what a podcast
00:04:07.140
is or even what I'm talking about, visit exorcistfiles.tv and you'll get all the instructions you need
00:04:19.720
So tell us, first of all, who is Father Gabriel Amorth?
00:04:22.100
Father Gabriel Amorth was the chief exorcist for the Diocese of Rome.
00:04:35.580
You mentioned at the start he was the most famous exorcist perhaps in the last hundred
00:04:39.440
I would argue he was the most famous in the past 500 years, probably not since the days
00:04:47.320
And the reason why is, A, he was very competent.
00:04:51.180
He was a great man of God and renowned for his saintliness, but also the fact that the
00:04:58.900
very order that he belonged to, the Paulines, part of their charism is communication and evangelization
00:05:10.020
He published his experiences, his teachings on exorcism.
00:05:13.560
He did that so well that he became known the world over.
00:05:17.780
One of the things that happened in the church, in fact, we're taping this actually on the
00:05:26.740
And it's quite something because I wanted to ask you a question that related to 1917, excuse
00:05:34.880
On this very day, Pope Paul VI talked about something in relation to Rome as Father Amorth was the chief
00:05:43.560
exorcist of Rome, but he said this, he said, I quote, from some fissure, the smoke of Satan
00:05:53.280
There is doubt, uncertainty, problems, unrest, dissatisfaction, confrontation.
00:06:04.280
So, first of all, I'd love to hear your take on that.
00:06:09.780
But with regard to an exorcist, their role, and what you would hear as an exorcist, had
00:06:16.660
you been around in that day and heard that, what would that mean to you?
00:06:21.300
There's a priest I know, a really saintly priest, and we talked about this one time, and he has
00:06:26.840
really a definite opinion as to the words of Pope Paul VI and how diagnostic and prophetic
00:06:37.560
they were, diagnostic in the sense that when everything toppled kind of after the Second
00:06:45.120
Vatican Council, you know, no one could have foreseen that.
00:06:48.620
But it also pointed to the fact that what seemed rosy and good leading up to the council, churches
00:07:00.900
The very fact that all of these things toppled so quickly, the bottom fell out from under the
00:07:07.280
vocations, the people of God, you know, there was a wholesale movement to questioning and
00:07:12.460
doubt, and the fact that, you know, contraception was embraced, and many people in the church,
00:07:19.800
many clergy, in my opinion, I think most of the clergy in the church, most, certainly not all,
00:07:28.800
Like, they, well, you know, like, we look at the circumstances of people, and it's really hard,
00:07:34.780
and therefore, it's okay to murder a pre-born life.
00:07:38.060
Like, I mean, I encounter clergy like this all the time.
00:07:41.400
There was a rot that was there, but it was beneath the surface, and then the conditions
00:07:49.160
created following the council just kind of exposed to that.
00:07:53.820
So he believes, this saintly priest I know, that the fallout was God's retribution to expose
00:08:05.120
And the words of Paul VI are prophetic in the sense that they have identified what is
00:08:12.560
the case for so many people in the church, so Catholics.
00:08:16.520
So in the past, you disagreed with the church, you left the church.
00:08:21.080
But the disagreeers, the discontents, the malcontents have remained in the church now.
00:08:27.300
You have theologians, you have clergy teaching in the name of the church, and their teaching
00:08:42.680
Not just a rejection of the teaching on a personal level, but I want to change God's church.
00:08:53.600
And thank you for saying it, because it gives a lot of the faithful comfort in that, really,
00:09:03.400
From the pews, it feels like we're going crazy.
00:09:08.020
And yet, a lot of us fight it also, not only for ourselves, but especially for our children.
00:09:13.540
And that's where, really, you can't, as a parent, you can't sit by and let it go and
00:09:20.620
just wonder, oh, well, whatever, because you know it's harming your children and perhaps
00:09:31.800
Why a book right now about Father Gabriel Amorth, Rome's chief exorcist, as you said, probably
00:09:37.940
one of the most famous exorcists in the last 500 years.
00:09:40.760
I, you know, why now and what difference do you think it's going to make?
00:09:46.700
This past year, this past April, there was a movie released called The Pope's Exorcist.
00:09:52.040
It was released by Sony Pictures, and it was starring Russell Crowe, the famous actor,
00:10:00.800
And, you know, to put it, to put it simply and frankly, that movie exploited the name of
00:10:07.640
That movie is loosely presented as an exorcism movie, but it's done so in the horror genre.
00:10:19.020
Russell Crowe plays Father Gabriel Amorth, but it is not true to life in any way.
00:10:24.900
And Father Amorth would have been repulsed that such a movie, that he was being exploited
00:10:32.680
to portray such a message, which was the antithesis of what he spent his life doing.
00:10:38.880
This is what you get when you're a famous person, as Father Amorth was, and, you know,
00:10:43.880
the result of which being, because of freedom of expression, somebody can create a movie about
00:10:49.220
So, as a result of that, it became necessary to clear the air and clarify not just the Church's
00:10:57.420
teaching on exorcism, but the name of this great saintly priest, Father Gabriel Amorth,
00:11:05.480
who spent his life, who spent decades combating evil and educating on evil in a way like no exorcist
00:11:17.360
Let's unpack that a little bit, because exorcisms, the last time you were on my show, you explained.
00:11:21.920
Exorcisms do have some of those very, you know, levitation and the lights going on off and
00:11:33.760
So, there are those kind of manifestations, yet that's not the heart of it.
00:11:39.860
So, tell us, if you will, how the movie exploited, and where it got it wrong, and what the truth
00:11:46.480
The job of the exorcist is not to cast out the devil.
00:11:51.040
The job of the exorcist is to find out why is the devil there?
00:11:58.120
And then it's the exorcist's job to aid the victim in rescinding those rights.
00:12:04.000
So, we need to dispel in our minds the concept that the exorcist comes in and he's combating
00:12:11.520
the devil with a Latin ritual in one hand, a crucifix in the other, and then when he puts
00:12:17.960
down the crucifix, only to pick up the aspergillum where he sprinkles holy water on the victim.
00:12:24.240
In other words, it's not a battle where each one is trying to hit the other one over the head.
00:12:28.480
But it's a battle in the sense that the exorcist is trying to get access to the victim, to the
00:12:37.780
human being whose consciousness is suppressed, and getting the human being to reverse decisions
00:12:44.540
that were made that got him or her ensnared in possession.
00:12:50.680
Now, if the possession resulted from, say, a generational sin, where there was a curse
00:12:58.140
instituted by a family member, and now this one, for whatever reason, has been ensnared,
00:13:04.020
then, okay, there isn't a particular sin he or she has done that has to be reversed, but
00:13:08.820
there may be a claim, a claim as to the identity of being a son or a daughter of God, that that
00:13:15.380
has to be done, that sin in general, the sin, the repetitive sin in my family line, I reject
00:13:23.500
I claim freedom purchased by Jesus Christ in his sacrifice and reject the constant rebellion
00:13:34.460
So, in other words, the exorcist has to diagnose how is the devil manifesting here?
00:13:44.140
And then he has to get to the victim, to get the victim's cooperation, to institute something
00:13:52.500
So, to phrase it differently, an exorcist is an expert in relationship, and he needs to
00:14:01.600
get the victim to abandon one relationship in favor of another.
00:14:14.920
It's filling in the space the devil is occupying with Jesus Christ.
00:14:20.960
The outward manifestations are there in terms of what the priest does.
00:14:24.180
He does use a missal, does pray prayers, does use the holy water, does use the crucifix.
00:14:30.320
That plays in, but as you said, that's not the meat of it.
00:14:35.780
The manifestations of the devil, the devil will manifest, but I'll tell you this.
00:14:41.780
As one's career as an exorcist, if we can speak like that, as one gains experience year
00:14:50.040
by year as an exorcist, the diabolical signs begin to diminish.
00:14:54.460
And they're initially there, the devil kind of uses these parlor tricks to try to manipulate
00:15:07.460
He's having this small child is walking up the wall backwards and then walking across the
00:15:12.600
ceiling as if the law of gravity didn't apply to him.
00:15:16.080
The first time you would see something like that, the hair on the back of your head might
00:15:32.280
And at a certain point, seeing that isn't even going to stop the yawn that you feel like
00:15:42.060
So as the effect of these parlor tricks don't produce what the devil wants to produce, he
00:15:50.080
abandons them because at the end of the day, they're not achieving what he wants them to
00:16:02.260
He spends his energy on just resisting what you are doing as an exorcist.
00:16:07.640
So Father Amorth in the book, he talks about in his very first exorcism, he saw a levitation.
00:16:16.860
So the victim was levitated into the air, was suspended by nothing.
00:16:27.860
As time goes on, those extraordinary manifestations, they just kind of go away.
00:16:34.340
And now you have the resistance of a belligerent, rebellious enemy of God, and that's what you've
00:16:44.400
If I bring in someone else in the room, so if I'm training a priest, for example, who has
00:16:50.540
been assigned by his bishop to be an exorcist and he's apprenticing, I can expect to see more
00:16:56.820
Because now the devil's got a brand new audience and he cracks his knuckles and wants to display
00:17:02.580
what he wants in order to get into the mind and the heart of this new person.
00:17:11.300
And this is the very thing that I'm going to brief that individual on before we enter into
00:17:18.220
Um, and you, you just have to imagine as you experience these things, imagine this is
00:17:25.740
the 289th time that you're seeing this and let that guide what, how you would behave when
00:17:34.780
Father Morse said, the devil is already causing us as much harm as he's allowed to do.
00:17:41.560
It is false, he says, to believe that if I leave him alone, he will leave me alone.
00:17:47.940
It's not only false, it's a betrayal of our priestly ministry, which should be directed
00:17:52.540
solely at leading souls to God, even by removing them from Satan's power, if necessary.
00:18:01.500
What's the danger of believing the devil will leave me alone if I leave him alone?
00:18:07.260
One is that there, within humans, there is a natural repulsion by the devil.
00:18:21.060
I think it would be unhealthy to be, um, to be, to have no anxiety about encountering the
00:18:29.100
I, I think that would be, we, I think we would call that arrogance.
00:18:36.660
All of us priests, all of us Christians, we are in fact.
00:18:40.120
And so we have to expect that we're going to engage in spiritual warfare at a certain
00:18:46.860
In other words, there has to be a grace filled limit to our fear of the devil, right?
00:18:56.660
And, and because if there, if that isn't there, then we're ceding too much to the devil.
00:19:02.140
We're giving him too much real estate within our mind and in our hearts.
00:19:05.380
And, and, and what to phrase it in a different way, you know, we're limiting our faith in
00:19:14.760
And we're limiting that very thing by granting too much to the devil.
00:19:21.240
So it's, it's, it's, it's a detriment to our very selves to, to, to be afraid of the devil
00:19:28.520
in such a way that we never want to encounter him or engage him on a spiritual level.
00:19:34.220
So it's good and healthy to engage in proper spiritual warfare warfare.
00:19:40.980
And so that means when we encounter something evil, we pray, Lord, limit the power of the
00:19:46.900
evil one here, we, we educate and teach people on the devil.
00:19:51.640
We have to do this even at the risk of, of sounding like we believe in, in something
00:20:00.380
And, and, and I tell you there, there's a story in the book of Father Amorth encountering
00:20:11.200
And the, the, the cardinal himself believes that, that these, these are the stories of
00:20:18.900
In other words, he is denying what the gospel presents us.
00:20:23.600
He, he's, he's denying the, the encounters that Jesus had with demons as, as make-believe.
00:20:32.860
Well, of course, the problem is if, if you think any part of the Bible is make-believe,
00:20:38.220
then the entire thing has to be distrusted because at, at the heart of it, the word of
00:20:47.720
And, and if that's the case, we can't trust it at all.
00:20:50.720
Right, and so, so here's somebody who's operating at the highest level of the church, occupying
00:20:57.880
one of the offices with the most authority, and he doesn't believe one of the basic tenets
00:21:04.740
That is the fact that the Prince of Darkness exists, and he has minions beneath him called
00:21:11.620
demons, and they're working to build a kingdom in order to, to, to usurp God's sovereignty.
00:21:20.400
And he wants you and me to be the, the, the vassals of his kingdom.
00:21:26.560
He's working to destroy God's plan of salvation for you and for me.
00:21:30.780
Amazing, Father, when you were speaking there, I couldn't help thinking of the movie Nefarious.
00:21:36.500
When the priest comes in, and immediately the, the devil's possessing the, the possessed
00:21:43.560
person is like, so afraid, you know, uh, why have you come to destroy me or whatever?
00:21:52.120
And then the priest presents, just as you said, oh, we, we, you know, we don't believe in that
00:21:58.900
Um, and then the devil's all sorts of comfortable with him.
00:22:07.700
You know, and, and that point in the movie, uh, so, uh, you know, I, I know the, I've,
00:22:12.740
I've gotten to know and, and to befriend the, the, the two writers who were also the two directors
00:22:19.280
Uh, and this, it, it was a completely spontaneous thing, but it was something that the actor
00:22:24.280
who played Nefarious, uh, who played the possessed man, Sean Patrick Flannery, an idea
00:22:29.140
he had when the priest came in and, and he recoiled at the presence of the priest, he
00:22:35.460
actually turned two locks of his hair into points so that they look like horns.
00:22:40.300
He flexes his muscle in terms of his appearance, so to speak.
00:22:45.480
When the priest denies the existence of the devil, when he thinks that evil is just a matter
00:22:53.340
of, of, of, of a psychological aberration, when you look at Sean Patrick in the next scene,
00:23:01.180
He doesn't need to flex now because this, this, so this is something that is, uh, it's,
00:23:06.880
it's, it's not advertised, so to speak, in the movie, but if you look for it, you can
00:23:11.540
It's one of the hidden gems that they put within the movie.
00:23:14.640
The thing that's interesting about that quote from scriptures, you know, you know, when,
00:23:19.220
when the demon says to the Lord, have you come to destroy us before the appointed time?
00:23:27.240
What the devil informs us there is God always retains his sovereignty.
00:23:34.400
So, so the Lord has put down his rules for reality, which apply also to the devil and his
00:23:41.700
demons and, and they are assured of an eternal condemnation.
00:23:48.060
And it's coming to a point where his time is getting short, but they know he has the
00:23:58.620
They, they were given a date and a time of their destruction and they know that it can
00:24:04.140
And at that point they, they were scared out of their skins, so to speak, and we can speak
00:24:10.080
this way, that God has changed the date, right?
00:24:14.520
So this goes to show you the devil there is one of the greatest evangelists in that he
00:24:24.760
And I think an exorcist is the best person to answer it, but why is the devil allowed to
00:24:31.300
And, you know, St. Augustine, he gives us the answer that the church has held up perennially,
00:24:37.060
and that is he fits in God's plan in order to bring about greater good.
00:24:42.620
In other words, the end state of affairs, when all is said and done, when time comes to a
00:24:52.620
There will be a better end result because of the fact that there was evil, that there
00:25:00.480
That God, in his wisdom and his majesty, has ordained this to be the way by which we come
00:25:11.300
Because, you know, otherwise, if we don't believe this, then God would even be more cruel
00:25:19.240
than the devil because he's allowed us to be exposed to something that is just pure
00:25:26.900
But it's not pure destruction, that the devil has a place in God's plan, and God is using
00:25:31.940
him, even though the devil, who, because of his tremendous angelic intellect, he should
00:25:42.500
He spends an incredible amount of energy trying to usurp God's plan and fails at every corner.
00:25:52.040
And this is part of what even St. Thomas Aquinas, the greatest theologian in the history of the
00:26:02.020
In the end, there's something so irrational about it that the mind simply cannot penetrate
00:26:13.880
To celebrate the momentous overturning of Roe v. Wade, we at LifeSite have minted just
00:26:18.540
under 10,000 of these brand new limited edition pro-life silver rounds.
00:26:22.560
Now, each round is stamped with the image of the Supreme Court of the United States, featuring
00:26:27.660
the date that the High Court delivered this historic victory.
00:26:30.500
And on the front of our pure silver rounds, LifeSite's logo surrounded by a brilliant sunburst
00:26:35.760
They, of course, commemorate our 25-year anniversary of LifeSite News.
00:26:44.900
These one-ounce silver rounds are available from our partners at stjosephspartners.com,
00:26:50.300
where you can fulfill all of your silver and gold needs in this perilous time.
00:26:54.960
Bishop Strickland came to L.A. to react to the L.A. Dodgers just honoring the most anti-Catholic
00:27:06.180
demonic hate group, if you will, anti-Christ hate group, like just horrific.
00:27:12.160
But because they were doing that, because the devil sort of reveled in that horrific display,
00:27:19.280
there was like 5,000 Catholics praying, processing with the bishop, Bishop Strickland, with a relic
00:27:33.200
None of that would have happened if they didn't do this demonic thing.
00:27:37.920
And there may be people having been converted out of that, that the grace of the action
00:27:43.780
produces grace, that the action itself produces and diffuses a grace that simply through the
00:27:54.140
sacrifice done by those people who did that, God releases something that he wouldn't have
00:28:00.460
done that can bring about the conversion of many of those people who participated in that
00:28:06.420
or even on TV are just mesmerized and edified by that witness.
00:28:12.060
I encounter things like that when I go, when I do the missions I do all over the world.
00:28:18.040
I'll encounter a seminarian, for example, who's in his first year or second year.
00:28:23.440
And I ask him, you know, how did you get your call?
00:28:27.660
And gosh, so many of them say, you know, I was living a life of evil.
00:28:37.320
And I saw somebody do a heroic act, a kind act, looking like a fool, for example, praying
00:28:46.360
a rosary in public or being made fun of as they walked along the street, somebody who
00:28:52.840
was obviously religious, for example, a sister or maybe a religious brother in habit and even
00:28:57.920
being spat on and responded with simply a smile.
00:29:02.900
And that moved to the heart of that individual and broke through the shackles that, you know,
00:29:13.900
But that single act, that small act of heroism changed his heart.
00:29:19.380
It released a grace in him that pulled him out of one kingdom and into another.
00:29:24.260
Also in the book, we have, there's a title, excuse me, a chapter titled, His Eminence Does
00:29:35.880
And that cardinal who you said did not believe.
00:29:43.980
Do you think that over the last, now almost 50 years, that has remained the same, increased
00:29:53.260
I do have to say it's decreasing simply because the ones who are like that cardinal and don't
00:30:02.040
believe God's biological solution is taking effect.
00:30:09.200
And so when you look at the church and who makes up the church now, for example, you look
00:30:14.620
at the seminarians that have joined the church in the last, let's say, 20 years, they are
00:30:21.560
different than the ones that joined starting, say, 40 years ago, right?
00:30:27.020
So looking at the past 40 years, the first 20 years of that, so men who joined the priesthood
00:30:33.060
beginning in the 1980s and all through the 90s, and then the ones that joined after, you're
00:30:50.780
Everything that the church professes in the creed, they believe.
00:30:54.540
It has been beyond two decades where I've encountered a seminarian who doesn't believe an article
00:31:02.600
of the faith that the church proposes to be definitive and believe by all, right?
00:31:10.100
In the first group, what you often encountered, and I hear bishops, I hear other priests talk
00:31:18.580
about, like, hey, what went through your mind when you wanted to, when you became a priest?
00:31:26.300
So I wanted to be a source of kindness, a source of encouragement to them, and there's nothing
00:31:33.680
But the belief of the church became secondary, and you could, many just kind of picked and
00:31:39.800
choose what they bought in, and they modify the teaching accordingly in their ministry.
00:31:49.540
Was that an effect of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who worked very hard to reform the seminaries,
00:32:01.360
So that age, that generation that didn't believe in the devil, they're dying out, and
00:32:16.700
The horror of the priestly sexual abuse scandal has made, and it's a revelation, has made the
00:32:25.240
becoming a priest much more difficult because it's no longer regarded as, by the public, that
00:32:37.780
In fact, a lot of priests wonder if they should wear their clerics out in public because of being
00:32:44.600
So the decision to become a priest is no longer about, well, it's a nice job, and I'll get
00:32:51.600
to do lots of nice things, and I'll be able to help the poor and encourage people.
00:32:55.720
You'd also have to come from a real faith, a commitment to this thing unto death.
00:33:02.380
So Satan, for all his horror and that situation of the abuse scandals, is a horror and satanic.
00:33:10.780
But I think that's also played a role in terms of cleaning things up.
00:33:13.700
The priesthood does not have the prestige that it used to have, that's for sure.
00:33:17.140
And, you know, another factor that's there is, you know, most of the abuse has been caused
00:33:29.940
So most of the abuse has not been done by what psychology defines as true pedophiles.
00:33:38.140
They've been acts of homosexuality done by priests on post-pubescent youth, right?
00:33:47.600
So this is, by definition, homosexuality rather than pedophilia.
00:33:51.820
Today, if a homosexual doesn't need to become a priest in order to live an unquestioned single
00:34:00.500
life, or actually, on the contrary, today, gays are socially permitted, societally permitted
00:34:12.440
So whereas the priesthood was a refuge before that prevented questions of like, hey, how come
00:34:26.000
So all of these things are contributing to a cleaning up of the priesthood.
00:34:30.660
The one similarity or the one place in which I think it's gotten much worse is that that
00:34:37.660
older generation now all find themselves among the hierarchy.
00:34:43.040
That's why the stunning revelation from Germany was so severe.
00:34:49.520
The vote in Germany of the bishops with regard to allowing for homosexual blessings in churches,
00:34:59.640
which is completely against the teaching of the church.
00:35:02.100
The vote was 38 to 8, 38 bishops in favor, 8 bishops opposed, and there was 11 abstentions,
00:35:12.300
I find myself without words as to why the church in Rome, which the job of the Holy Father is
00:35:25.800
He is the visible source of unity in the church.
00:35:28.160
Well, there's a horrific source of disunity, a cavity beginning in Germany, and why is this
00:35:56.380
In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 7, 16 to 20, Christ says,
00:36:03.900
Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles?
00:36:07.440
Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
00:36:16.420
Neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.
00:36:18.760
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.
00:36:24.000
Wherefore, by their fruits you shall know them.
00:36:26.180
How can we apply this, then, to our own lives and to our approach to the Catholic Church and her members?
00:36:32.880
We have to always, as Christians, we have to be examining our lives for what needs pruning,
00:36:39.200
for what is not aiding us in our journey to heaven, and what in fact is bringing us down.
00:36:43.920
And look, it's really easy to get caught up in the bad fruits of the world.
00:36:50.920
You know, I decided, for example, years ago that I needed to give up movies.
00:37:00.660
Find me a movie that doesn't have a blasphemy other than it, where God's name is not used
00:37:08.140
disrespectfully, and, you know, you have a name, I have a name, God is his name.
00:37:18.000
And so, in the Old Testament, when his name was disrespected, the punishment was death
00:37:23.420
because the disrespecting of God's name is a literal attack on him.
00:37:29.680
And that is, by definition, a repeating of the rebellion of Satan, right?
00:37:36.680
It is a participation in that original demonic rebellion.
00:37:40.660
So, it brings a curse, not only upon the individual, but upon the place where that was uttered.
00:37:52.240
Today, we don't stone people for uttering a blasphemy, but we certainly don't respond
00:38:01.400
And so, for me, I mean, who doesn't love a good movie?
00:38:04.380
But I had to sacrifice the good that was present in it because of the bad that is concomitant
00:38:14.880
And it's not just blasphemy, but just themes that are detestable, things that are just unbecoming
00:38:25.980
And we may appreciate the relaxation and the recreation that watching a movie gives us,
00:38:33.440
but if we have a dichotomy within ourselves, so we have one self that is trying to build
00:38:40.540
holiness and trying to be faithful to God, build a prayer life, turn away from sin, and
00:38:45.520
And we have this other part where we suspend the former in view of the latter.
00:38:53.880
We're not going to get holy by having this kind of fizzer.
00:39:00.780
What the Word of God calls us to do is to make sacrifices where we need to in our lives
00:39:11.100
So that sacrificial dimension of the Christian life is always operative.
00:39:17.640
You know, there's a line, and the reference for which escapes me right now, there's a line
00:39:23.240
in one of the Psalms in the Old Testament, and it goes,
00:39:34.620
Whatever you set your eyes on, whatever you look at and observe, the glow of that thing
00:39:42.840
If you're looking at ugly things, blasphemous things, immoral things, that's the glow that
00:39:49.500
That's the holiness that you're pursuing and the holiness that's going to stick to you.
00:39:59.520
One of the things that happened even in later years, near the closing of his life, but changing
00:40:07.700
of the prayers of exorcism from the Latin into the vernacular, changing of the holy water,
00:40:17.180
if you will, to just blessed water from exorcism water.
00:40:25.680
Can you explain what his opinions were and why he would have that?
00:40:30.180
At the Second Vatican Council, it called for a reform of all of the rituals and liturgies
00:40:39.320
So the very last ritual to be reformed was the rite of exorcism, which occurred in 1999.
00:40:46.080
And that was done under the supervision of Cardinal Estevez, who was a liturgist, had never performed
00:40:57.540
And so what you have is somebody who has no practical expertise in an area, trying to interpret
00:41:04.560
it in himself and understand it, and then give that interpretation to the world.
00:41:13.360
And so if you don't consult exorcists, the men that are actually doing that craft, then
00:41:19.720
the probability that you're going to get something wrong is going to be high.
00:41:25.600
Because what occurred, among other things, is they changed this ritual, which is very much
00:41:37.440
So where there's an alternation in the original rite of exorcism between praying to God, asking
00:41:44.760
for his intervention in the exorcist, but in the situation as well, and then an attack
00:41:52.300
of the demon, a visceral attack using language that was abusive.
00:41:59.320
You know, you hear a thing, I adjure you, ancient serpent, ancient liar, cunning fiend.
00:42:05.680
May you be struck in hell along with your venomous poison.
00:42:10.440
Those abuses, that abusive language wounds the devil.
00:42:18.760
And the revised rite became not so much a confrontation, but a liturgy where one begins, it almost looks
00:42:27.680
like a kind of almost a mass, if you will, without a consecration.
00:42:32.700
Begins in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, I'm in, the Lord be with you.
00:42:36.300
And so how do you think the devil is going to respond when the priest says, the Lord be
00:42:43.480
He's going to say something distasteful, crude, and horrific.
00:42:48.780
And this is the reality in the revised rite of exorcism.
00:42:55.560
So I'm not going to say that it's not effective at all.
00:42:59.200
But the vast majority of exorcists, and I'm at a meeting of them right now, this is where
00:43:06.660
There's, I personally don't know a single one that uses the revised rite.
00:43:11.600
They use the traditional rite, the rite that was first composed in the year 1614, which
00:43:16.460
has the muscle that you want to use in the rite.
00:43:20.060
I, again, not to say that none of them have ever used the revised rite.
00:43:27.300
I just have not found the same kind of success that the traditional rite gives us.
00:43:35.720
One of the final sections in the revised rite is the exorcist out loud thanks the Lord for
00:43:44.200
liberating this victim of the presence of the devil.
00:43:48.840
And at that point, if the devil is still there, how do you think he's going to respond?
00:43:53.320
Now, I'm still here, along with some abusive language towards the exorcist, calling the
00:44:04.240
And yet this is what is printed in the ritual, a thanking of the Lord for liberating this person.
00:44:12.800
Most possession cases, in my experience and that of my colleagues, require something in
00:44:22.740
So if someone is being exorcised once a week, it requires a year and a half.
00:44:27.980
Here you have someone with zero experience thinking that, okay, this is just going to be
00:44:34.420
super quick and almost magical, whereby we just pronounce these words, the devil's going
00:44:40.200
to magically leave and none of us are going to be late for dinner as a result.
00:44:47.640
He said something interesting about holy water, too.
00:44:50.300
I don't know that many people know the difference.
00:44:54.380
In the church, there are many kinds of holy water.
00:44:57.320
There's Easter water, the water that we blessed at the Easter vigil.
00:45:02.480
There's epiphany water, water that is blessed on the solemnity of the epiphany.
00:45:07.100
We have different formulas of holy water that are blessed on a particular saint's day or
00:45:15.600
in a particular manner, according to a devotion to a saint.
00:45:22.920
You know, people ask, well, which is more powerful?
00:45:25.360
I don't know that we can really speak this way.
00:45:35.920
But the waters each affect what is prayed into them.
00:45:41.200
So for exorcism, we use a particular holy water that is in the old ritual of 1614.
00:46:07.400
Because at the fall of Adam, the devil became the prince of the world.
00:46:13.220
So the exorcist is removing the dominion of the devil from the salt.
00:46:19.380
After he exorcises it, which is a good, solid paragraph, then he blesses the salt.
00:46:25.580
The next thing he does is he exorcises the water.
00:46:33.900
Then he mixes the two elements and he blesses the mixture.
00:46:39.980
Well, because both of them have cleansing properties in the natural realm.
00:46:44.980
And these, the word of God has identified they have cleansing properties in the spiritual realm.
00:46:50.220
So in the formula of making that water, we pray into, the exorcist prays into the elements, what he wants them to achieve.
00:47:02.620
So, you know, he says, wherever this water is sprinkled, may there be peace in the homes of the faithful.
00:47:10.220
May the wickedness of the foul fiend be cast away, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:47:14.740
Such that when the holy water is sprinkled and wherever it is sprinkled, that effect is accomplished.
00:47:23.500
So in the old ritual, the priest would typically use it to bless a great amount of holy water.
00:47:32.700
That is the holy water that would be placed in the tank that people at church could take home, sprinkle in their homes.
00:47:40.700
The priest doesn't have to be present in their homes.
00:47:43.600
The very fact that the faithful are spreading it, that effect is occurring in their homes.
00:47:47.620
This is the holy water that is typically used in exorcism.
00:47:56.220
Well, in the new rite of exorcism, they include the option of producing holy water right in the very ritual itself.
00:48:08.620
You're introducing something that really should have been done prior because exorcism is a confrontation with evil.
00:48:16.200
So you're having somebody who doesn't want to be present at a liturgy and who's going to be as belligerent as possible as it's happening, be right front and center as a main character when the scene is happening.
00:48:30.040
So you're introducing, you're casting pearls before the swine in the most literal way.
00:48:37.220
The effect of the holy water in an exorcism, what have you seen of that?
00:48:47.320
And if he's being belligerent, a splash of the holy water on the face always stops that.
00:48:54.360
In fact, my laypersons that I will employ in an exorcism, all of them have their own bottles of holy water such that in the midst of their praying, if a belligerence happens, they already know what to do.
00:49:09.300
So they serve as additional hands and arms for me.
00:49:21.560
Aren't you just there with the victim just by himself?
00:49:26.800
First of all, you need holders to hold down the victim because the devil is going to attack you otherwise.
00:49:42.560
You want those people in the room because their prayers are going to help you, and those prayers are caustic to the devil.
00:49:49.820
You may have a nurse or doctor, a medical expert there in the room, and you have just other people there that are an extension of you, your hands and your arms, so that they are handing you something you might need.
00:50:07.700
A crucifix at this point, or a relic of a saint, or even on their own initiative, sprinkling holy water upon the victim as a response to something that the devil is doing.
00:50:20.400
So this aids you because really exorcism is an act by the church, and these people here are representative of the church.
00:50:28.240
They're the fingertips of the church, so to speak, in this act of liberation.
00:50:33.160
Can you tell me a little bit about Father Amorth in your sort of relationship with him, what he meant to you, how he might have inspired you?
00:50:43.880
Father Amorth, I never did get a chance to meet him, but we certainly ran in the same circles in the sense that his teacher, who was Father Candito Amantini,
00:50:54.300
he was a Passionist priest who operated out of the Scala Santa Church, the Church of the Holy Stairs in Rome, which is across the street from St. John Lateran Archbasilica.
00:51:07.020
So the Church of the Holy Stairs contains the steps that went up to Pontius Pilate's Praetorium in Jerusalem, meaning those are the steps that our Lord had to walk up and down.
00:51:18.960
So Helen, Constantine's mother, removed them and sent them to Rome, and Constantine erected a basilica around them.
00:51:26.400
Beneath those stairs, in the basement, so to speak, or the crypt, is where Father Candido used to conduct his exorcisms.
00:51:44.420
So Father Candido was the one who taught Father Gabriel, and Father Gabriel succeeded him in the ministry.
00:51:53.640
So what I found especially good in this book is how Father Amorth talks about how he was taught, what he was told to zero in on, what he was told to avoid.
00:52:09.020
And so I had never encountered another resource where he's being given the lessons against the demonic.
00:52:18.320
And they are lessons that are worthwhile for all of us.
00:52:22.320
And so that appears, that's essentially the last third of the book.
00:52:27.300
So I found that particular part quite edifying.
00:52:30.300
Father Candido was an immensely holy man, and his cause for canonization is well underway.
00:52:39.000
In fact, he's reached the status of venerable, and his body has been moved inside the Basilica, inside the Scala Santa Basilica itself.
00:52:49.120
So that is an immense nod of approval by the Universal Church when that occurs.
00:52:57.860
Pick up this book for an inside view of the life of an exorcist, what it really means.
00:53:03.200
The Battle with the Devil, Incredibles, available from Tan Books, the official biography of Father Gabriel Amorth.
00:53:28.640
To see more like it, be sure to hit the subscribe button below to get all the latest content from LifeSite News.
00:53:34.200
Check the links in the description to read more and connect with us on social media
00:53:37.760
so that you can stay up to date with all the latest life, family, faith, and freedom news.