The John-Henry Westen Show - Was Benedict XVI Still Pope？ Vatican Petition Sparks Debate ｜ Patrick Coffin

00:00:00.000 The problem is that's one of three public sources that I'm aware of

00:00:03.540 where canonical crimes were committed in the lead-up and during the conclave that gave us Francis.

00:00:12.240 Hey my friends, we are here with Patrick Coffin, one of the very well-known podcasters who has

00:00:19.540 gone down that rabbit hole of saying that Francis was not the Pope. He did so out loud by himself

00:00:25.660 when it would really cost to do that.

00:00:28.160 Now that we had the news from Andrea Cianci

00:00:31.160 that the Vatican Criminal Court

00:00:34.080 has actually accepted his canonical question

00:00:38.300 or petition to the court, if you will,

00:00:40.320 opening this case of what went down

00:00:43.620 with Benedict's resignation.

00:00:44.880 There's no one better to speak to than Patrick Coffin

00:00:46.860 because he has been banging this drum longer than most.

00:00:50.100 Patrick, welcome to the program.

00:00:51.340 Thanks, John Henry.

00:00:52.040 Great to be with you, as always.

00:00:53.560 Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.

00:00:55.300 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:01:00.380 Amen.

00:01:00.840 We're going to be talking about the news dropped by LifeSite News and the work of Andre Cianci, who is an art historian and a journalist.

00:01:10.960 He's written thousands of articles, and he's done, I don't know how many podcast interviews.

00:01:15.180 It's all in the thousands since, well, going on 10 years now, with respect to two pieces of evidence that I want to talk about and get your take on John Henry.

00:01:25.120 because you really launched this that really got my attention last week when I saw the headline

00:01:29.800 Vatican Criminal Court to investigate the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI. Obviously I've

00:01:34.940 been waiting for this day for a long time and I think we should make some very very important

00:01:40.200 distinctions and the first is just as we kind of set the table together you and I are not the

00:01:45.960 adjudicators I'm not a cardinal I'm a guy with a laptop and a curious mind I have never I've never

00:01:51.980 sold myself as the final word on this question. But what I'm aiming to do is to encourage Catholics

00:01:58.480 around the world to at least look at the evidence. My opinion is, I want you to consider my opinion

00:02:04.320 to be worthless. However, we do have a body of canon law, which is binding on the faithful.

00:02:11.980 And the two pieces of canon law that we're going to talk about, one is a very important

00:02:15.820 epistle of constitution that was written by John Paul II in 1995. It's called Universi

00:02:20.980 Dominici Gregis, and the other one is the 1983 Code of Canon Law, specifically from

00:02:26.720 1983, specifically Canon 332.2.

00:02:30.120 So we're going to talk about UDG, University of Dominici Gregis, and the Code, Canon 332.

00:02:37.300 So for all you legal nerds out there, we're going to point you to sources, and you're

00:02:42.140 going to have to decide.

00:02:43.100 I always tell my audiences and the people who follow me and members of the True North

00:02:46.900 community that we're essentially jurors on a trial called life we're not the prosecutor we're not the

00:02:53.740 defense we're not the judge but we are jurors and so the evidence that we're going to talk about

00:02:58.060 today is important for you to sift through and come to your own decisions I believe this thesis

00:03:02.720 does fit the facts of what happened to the Catholic Church since March of 2013 there's a lot

00:03:08.260 of things that we're going to talk about today you've never heard before and I'm very very glad

00:03:12.880 to be speaking with the man who broke it and John Henry you you were ahead of the curve in so many

00:03:18.480 ways about what was really happening under Francis as soon as he arrived in Rome everyone's

00:03:24.540 cheerleading you know he doesn't wear the evil red shoes he wears the humble brown shoes

00:03:28.900 and I remember like kind of being irritated by how negative your coverage was except I realized

00:03:35.940 it's not really refutable you were looking at things as they were not editorializing just kind

00:03:40.720 of shining a light. Do you regret covering so many of the misdeeds and at least the material

00:03:46.620 heresies and the kind of Masonic weaponized ambiguity? If you had another chance to cover

00:03:52.860 the Bergoglian era, would you do anything different? No, if anything, I would have paid

00:03:58.300 attention the day of when he appeared on the balcony with Daniels. We cottoned on only on day

00:04:03.420 three when he said that Casper did theology on the knees. And that really is what sent shockwaves

00:04:11.620 through me. I didn't see the coverage. I listened to it on radio when his election happened. The

00:04:17.960 resignation of Benedict, had I known enough at the time to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, that would

00:04:24.640 have been great because that initial part of Francis was so confusing, so gut-wrenching,

00:04:29.900 so insane it really put your mind through the ringer like how can this be and uh no i wouldn't

00:04:35.340 do anything anything different at all if anything i wish i wasn't as naive to think that like i was

00:04:42.700 told by the cardinals at the time oh don't worry amoris this this whole divorce communion remarriage

00:04:49.020 thing that'll that'll never happen if it did that would be just a revolution and it would

00:04:53.660 and let that sort of happen so no no regrets other than should have gone harder you and i are in a

00:05:01.240 very kind of small bubble and we know these names let me just press pause when you say daniels you

00:05:06.440 mean the man standing to the so stage left behind francis on march the evening of march 13 2013

00:05:13.860 this is godfrey cardinal daniels of belgium who over 30 years really undermined if not hard to

00:05:20.840 prove motive, but the church in Belgium has been pretty much decimated under his so-called

00:05:25.520 leadership. He was caught on audio recording trying to encourage the abuse victim, I'm going

00:05:34.200 to say this carefully to not get banned, the abuse victim at the hands of his biological uncle who

00:05:39.900 was a fellow bishop of Cardinal Daniels. The other reason why Daniels is problematic and significant

00:05:45.060 into this conversation, is that in his biography, the story of how they, by they I mean the St.

00:05:52.840 Gallen Mafia cardinals, Silvestrini and Cardinal Martini, Karl Lehmann, Karl Marx, excuse me,

00:06:01.060 Reinhard Marx, and Archbishop Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor of London. This is the kind of

00:06:06.700 the rump of left-wing cardinals that brought Cardinal Bergoglio from Buenos Aires, and they

00:06:12.320 schmoozed him and they wined him and dined him. The problem is that's one of three public sources

00:06:16.840 that I'm aware of where canonical crimes were committed in the lead up and during the conclave

00:06:22.160 that gave us Francis. The other documentation is the book The Great Reformer, Pope Francis and the

00:06:28.840 Making of a Radical Pope by Austin Ivory. That chapter called Conclave, that book featured a

00:06:36.080 chapter called Conclave that the then Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor denounced. He said this is

00:06:42.140 not true. This is an outrage. These are lies. And so I have a copy of that book, and I read the

00:06:46.900 chapter. And it confirms the details in the Cardinal Gottfried biography. The third public

00:06:52.660 source is a lecture at Villanova University in 2013, 14 rather, by Uncle Ted McCarrick, the

00:07:00.420 highest profile pedophile cardinal in the Catholic Church in America. They all agree. They don't hide

00:07:05.720 that they brag about the quid pro quo deals and the leveraging of influence to get their man in.

00:07:14.220 Unfortunately, and this is what I discovered when I read Universi Dominici Gregis,

00:07:18.360 which is an absolute constitution. You know this, John Henry.

00:07:20.620 This is the second highest gravity of magisterial documents short of a definition of the faith.

00:07:27.340 And it lays down the law for future conclaves.

00:07:31.540 And sections 75 through 81 detail the fact that if you do this, what these cardinals did to get Bergoglio elected,

00:07:39.220 the punishment is also laid down by John Paul II with the help of Ratzinger.

00:07:44.200 La Ticentencia Excommunication.

00:07:46.300 So that's one body of evidence.

00:07:48.560 The other body of evidence, and I learned this from reading Pope Emeritus' question mark,

00:07:53.200 the always is also a forever by Colombian attorney Estefania Acosta Ochoa,

00:07:57.560 And that is the distinction between Munis and Ministerium in light of Canon 332.2.

00:08:03.960 We're going to get into this.

00:08:05.000 But I just wanted to lay down who these people are.

00:08:06.880 You said, Daniels, I know who you meant.

00:08:09.200 Others may not.

00:08:10.160 You mentioned another name as well.

00:08:12.760 Oh, Casper, Walter Casper, the left-leaning German cardinal.

00:08:17.420 They're all kind of on the same team.

00:08:19.200 They high-five each other.

00:08:20.500 They endorse each other's books and so on.

00:08:22.060 So it's kind of a nexus of heterodox, red-hatted individuals.

00:08:27.560 Anyway, I just wanted to make sure we're knocking down fourth walls here.

00:08:30.420 Before we talk about the Vatican criminal court case and the backstory of Andrea Cianci's petitions in Italy, which have finally borne some fruit,

00:08:40.960 I think it might be helpful to talk about what I regard as the kill shot.

00:08:44.460 It's just my nickname for it.

00:08:46.140 And that is not downstream from what was done in the conclave, which is alluded to in Pope Benedict's Declaratio.

00:08:54.460 These terms are very, very important.

00:08:57.180 Declaratio is the name of the document.

00:08:59.840 He wrote it himself in Latin on his walnut desk.

00:09:05.060 He told Pete Sheawalt that in his autobiography, biography rather, the interview.

00:09:10.280 Pope Benedict was known for his pristine, accurate Latin.

00:09:12.960 He lectured in Latin at the PhD level for 40 or 50 years.

00:09:17.000 And he was the general editor of the Code of Canon Law from 1983.

00:09:20.540 He knows what he's doing.

00:09:21.580 He was also one of the drafters and collaborators in the writing of Universi Dominici Gregis.

00:09:26.240 So he knows, new, canon 332.2, like the back of his hand.

00:09:31.620 And according to that canon, which does provide for valid papal resignation, you must renounce the office.

00:09:39.520 John Henry, here's a good analogy. It helps people, I think.

00:09:42.640 I can renounce driving, but I have a driver's license. I have the right to drive.

00:09:48.860 So the evidence is that Pope Benedict renounced the ministerium in his resignation letter,

00:09:54.280 which is the external functions of the papacy, which he did renounce, but he did not renounce

00:09:59.280 being the pope, the office, the munis of the papacy. That explains why he wore the white papal

00:10:07.940 cassock, the white papal zacchetto, why he gave the apostolic blessing in writing it in person,

00:10:14.280 which only popes can do, why he signed his name with the PP pro pontifec. There's several different

00:10:19.220 ways to understand PP, but it's the official designation of popes. Even Pope Emeritus is

00:10:23.620 kind of word salad, emeritus in Latin, doesn't mean old retired guy. It means he who merits the

00:10:28.820 office. Why didn't he go back to Bavaria, as he said many times before when he was the CDF prefect

00:10:34.480 under John Paul II? He wanted to go back to Bavaria and write big books and pray. Well,

00:10:38.920 he got elected Pope Benedict XVI, and he stayed in Rome and wrote big books called the Jesus of

00:10:43.620 Nazareth series. But he didn't return to his native Germany. He stayed at the Mater Ecclesia

00:10:49.240 Monastery in the enclosure of the Vatican, very close, almost as a kind of catechon, a kind of

00:10:54.520 a restrainer to what was going on with his successor. So unlike President Nixon, who in

00:11:01.340 August 1974, in one sentence, validly resigned the office of the Presidency of the United States,

00:11:09.380 Benedict does not seem to have done that in his Declaratio. Even the word Declaratio,

00:11:14.080 the title is misnamed. It should have been titled the Renunciatio, the renunciation.

00:11:19.240 So there's a lot of clues that the Holy Father gave us, and that goes to the expertise of Andrea Cianci, who wrote the best-selling book in Italy.

00:11:27.360 It's published in English as well. It's called The Ratzinger Code.

00:11:30.380 Don't want to get too far into the weeds on that, but it's important to kind of lay a foundation why this debate is happening at all,

00:11:37.560 why Senor Cianci's petition to the Vatican through his many, many, you know, I don't know,

00:11:46.340 no one's done more work on behalf of the church to settle this than Andoia Cianci.

00:11:51.160 That's really what I wanted to talk to you about, because this is really difficult to understand

00:11:56.840 in some respects, because there's a million different theses out there of what's going on,

00:12:02.820 Because we've never had this happen in the church before where you have authentic documents published on faith and morals of a pope replete with errors.

00:12:14.360 Errors which have been known to be errors forever.

00:12:18.200 Sure, in the previous popes you have some errors, but they're in private letters to friends.

00:12:24.100 They're in a homily.

00:12:26.360 Nothing in official papal teaching documents on faith and morals.

00:12:31.300 So there's a first.

00:12:32.140 but then you you have the vatican court saying the criminal court saying that's accepted

00:12:40.140 this and investigating it let's make a supposition for what lots of people are going to think right

00:12:44.920 oh that guy is such a bother he's been around for like a decade he keeps banging the drum

00:12:50.560 we're so sick of him just yep and now he asks a question which he did and let's refuse to answer

00:12:57.480 room why would we refuse well because there's the case we're looking at the case you know yeah yeah

00:13:02.160 yeah but except that it's actually an official court that sent him an official document saying 0.89

00:13:09.620 by the way your case is under investigation i i can't say the vatican is stupid especially not 0.91

00:13:19.180 people at that high level obviously this guy's going to use it he's used everything 0.97

00:13:26.540 So either the Vatican's crazy and they want, I don't know, they're making it up and needed a

00:13:32.360 real oops, but that doesn't make any sense. Or they're actually looking at this thing.

00:13:36.880 And then the question comes, why? Why would they look at this thing?

00:13:42.160 Chianchi is regarded as a kook by so many people who haven't looked at the evidence,

00:13:46.960 by the way. But then there's a whole bunch of people, very smart people, linguists and canonists

00:13:54.420 who have looked at it and take it seriously so it can't be just blown off as the guy's wacko and

00:14:03.240 no so then what then we come to this essential distinction which actually got you into it

00:14:09.680 um that i know you you accredit to estefania her book and many people believe this do you know

00:14:17.540 So Father Gruner of the very famous Fatima, Father Gruner, the one Nicholas Gruner who

00:14:24.100 promoted Fatima like nobody else, he believed this. And it led to, I think, a big battle in

00:14:32.220 his own organization because it was so controversial. Daring to say this stuff gets you

00:14:37.640 canceled massively. Even for opening the question got me canceled from a ton of stuff. And all I

00:14:46.220 said was can't we just get an answer just hello can you tell us please so the point though is

00:14:53.700 what is this thing this is the difference between munis and ministerium and what you said there is

00:14:58.840 is so key because you talked about how benedict is a latinist of great renown and that's proved by

00:15:08.560 a all of his background um and this is an older man and in the church they all had to know latin

00:15:14.880 they said their masses in latin when he grew up when he learned to be a priest it was all about

00:15:20.740 latin and as you said he worked through the vatican when they still worked it all in latin so

00:15:28.120 wait wait wait this guy is an absolute great latinist now the other piece of weird evidence

00:15:34.020 is we know because we got told that when did benedict first consider the resignation well

00:15:43.260 he knew growing in that he might resign because he said, let me pray for me that I don't flee

00:15:50.200 from the wolves. But also the comes out from Peter Zewald, who is of course his biographer

00:15:57.420 official, his very close friend, that he knew he had to do it when? In 2012, when he went on the

00:16:05.820 trip to Cuba and Mexico. And he says it, you know, he, he had a fall. Now it's weird too,

00:16:13.960 because, uh, Zevald only reveals this letter in 2023, only a few years ago. So it's like,

00:16:22.700 what's that about? But anyway, he does, he reveals it and it says it's a private confidential letter

00:16:28.300 from Benedict to Zevald. And it says that he decided for sure to do it on that trip. Why?

00:16:35.480 He had some kind of massive fall, so much so.

00:16:40.260 It was so bad that when he woke up the next morning, he had a handkerchief full of blood.

00:16:46.220 And yet, Benedict doesn't remember the fall.

00:16:49.100 He doesn't remember falling.

00:16:50.880 So that's weird all by itself, but that's when he says he decided.

00:16:55.420 So he knows then from the spring of 2012 to when he made the announcement in February of 2013 that he's going to do this.

00:17:03.840 she's a long time to prep and so this latin expert who has like a year to prepare this statement

00:17:10.200 goes ahead and makes the statement we're in the key line of saying he's renouncing it

00:17:18.080 says i'm gonna give up driving my car not the license i'm gonna hold on to the license but

00:17:23.460 i'm gonna give up driving my car what wait wait hello it says in canon law that you have to give

00:17:31.540 up the munis, the actual office. And the key line, he says, I'm going to give up the administration

00:17:39.340 of the office. And that's it. That's what is driving me crazy. That's what initially led

00:17:45.020 you to say, whoa, something's up here. That was all part of the red pill journey. And the big one

00:17:50.660 on the doctrinal side was Amoris Laetitia. By the way, I was doing some research and I used voice

00:17:55.940 text recognition in my phone, and it came out as amorous Letitia. So that's, I just call it

00:18:01.100 amorous Letitia now. And something else happened that Andrea Cianci reported on recently. I wasn't

00:18:06.820 aware of this. I didn't know the details. But in March, so March 26th and 27th in Santiago, Cuba,

00:18:15.000 there was an attempt on Pope Benedict's life by poisoning. And if you look at the footage of him

00:18:20.560 arriving at the airport on the 26th and what he's like in the morning of the 27th he looks like a

00:18:26.440 zombie he's out of it he's uh he looks like he's in great pain and he survived it in addition to

00:18:32.680 the fall that's the same story now andrea suggests that it has to be a poisoning because of so it is

00:18:41.580 known that benedict had insomnia so he's taking some sleeping pills but the he would have gone

00:18:48.120 through that normally everybody who has such difficulties is used to a regimen something

00:18:53.800 must have happened because he was so overdosed that not only did he have this fall he forgets

00:19:01.860 that he had the fall so uh something's really strange and and i think i think it's andrea's

00:19:07.480 position that this must have been a poisoning or or something of that sort yeah i heard that from

00:19:12.300 another source as well but that's that's the behavior of an addict and it sounds like

00:19:16.060 And according to Andrea Cionci, that was acknowledged at some point by Benedict that he was addicted to these insomnia pills.

00:19:24.160 I met, by God's grace, in my friendship with Cardinal Burke, I had a 10-minute meeting with Pope Benedict in early April of that same year, 2012, in Rome.

00:19:33.240 I introduced him to my father, may he rest in peace.

00:19:35.920 That was quite a moment.

00:19:39.000 The Holy Father looked very, very peaceful.

00:19:41.860 I now know that he'd already decided to get out in the moments that I had to spend with him.

00:19:46.060 but one thing the cameras do not pick up about Pope Benedict is that he's like this ocean of

00:19:51.680 serenity uh it just radiated out of him he was gentle uh he was tired that morning but he seemed

00:19:57.380 very very alert and he had that that carism that John Paul II did that when you're looking at him

00:20:02.600 it's like no one else is no one else matters but the one person then another person then another

00:20:07.700 person so that was um strange I mean I still have the photos it's a bit of a pinch me moment

00:20:12.800 And just knowing that what that was like on the timeline makes it all real.

00:20:19.380 This thing, to go back to it, this Munos and Ministerium thing, it is very disturbing, but it relates also to other things that he said.

00:20:27.260 So there is some weird stuff about what Benedict himself said and what his secretary, Genswein, said about Benedict's resignation.

00:20:39.580 because they spoke against find it anyway of a bifurcation of the papacy of a sort of prayerful

00:20:47.460 part and an active part and that's really strange because that goes back to your example of the

00:20:56.580 driver's license and i'm not going to drive my car but i'm going to hold on to the license

00:21:00.140 what did you make of that um people were saying the bifurcation of the papacy like that's not

00:21:06.000 possible and i agree with that because when christ established his church there was the

00:21:12.620 whole point to make one pope so that there would be unity um not two popes so there can't be two

00:21:20.700 popes and yet it seems that at least by the word of gensfein but also by what benedict himself said

00:21:28.000 that he's retaining somehow this prayerful part or he can't give up what he was called to do

00:21:33.620 which I also agree with, by the way.

00:21:35.960 Unpack that for us.

00:21:37.540 Well, I think it's Archbishop Gantwine's attempt to square the circle

00:21:41.620 and to provide cover for his ailing, aging mentor and spiritual father.

00:21:47.000 There's no such thing as an expanded Petrine ministry

00:21:49.340 where you've got the active part that does things like issue magistral documents

00:21:53.580 and the other part over here where it's the praying partner.

00:21:56.680 That's the two-pope thesis, which has been refuted by the facts as we know them.

00:22:00.640 So I think it's a well-meaning attempt to try to understand and corral two things and to resolve the cognitive dissonance that's looking you in the face.

00:22:10.260 So I think it's better that we stick as closely as we can to the documents that Benedict appealed to,

00:22:19.020 Università Dominici Greggis and Canon 332.2.

00:22:22.740 Those are very, very important.

00:22:25.120 Another thing to piggyback on this answer, John Henry, is that there's a tradition in understanding papal teaching which puts priority over what a pope says and not what a document or someone who's transcribed what he says.

00:22:42.900 So the spoken voice in this case is knowable because it happened on live international television on February 11, 2013, when Pope Benedict, seated, reads his Declaratio.

00:22:56.920 And we now know, thanks to the uncovering of Cianci and others, that the Secretary of State, Bertoni, and his successor, Parolin, they have played fast and loose with the actual words that Pope Benedict used.

00:23:10.380 And there's several striking examples where if you slow the tape down, he's not saying what Vatican.va now says he said.

00:23:17.500 There's too many examples to go into here.

00:23:18.920 But very important to stick to the evidence as we see it as closely as we can and try to put speculation on the back burner.

00:23:27.680 I don't have magical soul reading apparatus.

00:23:29.860 I really don't know what Archbishop Ganswein's motives are.

00:23:33.820 But that kind of fed into the two-pope thesis, which, you know, Jesus did not pick Peter, oh, also Andrew, to be the prayer partner.

00:23:44.160 You know, it's one Lord, one faith, one papacy.

00:23:46.840 That's the unity.

00:23:47.580 That's why it's called the one holy Catholic and apostolic church.

00:23:51.440 The faith is essentially simple.

00:23:53.260 A well-formed seven-year-old can grasp this.

00:23:55.800 And I think antics with semantics trying to square a circle are not going to get us much

00:24:00.720 light and unfortunately just more heat.

00:24:03.020 And so it's very clear that you have to give up the munis.

00:24:06.220 And it's very clear that in the key sentence where he talks about giving it up, he doesn't

00:24:09.960 say the munis.

00:24:10.700 So that's the weirdest thing that's driving, I think, the whole thing, driving the acceptance

00:24:15.620 of this case before this Vatican criminal court that has got a lot of theologians, canonists

00:24:23.420 and well-meaning Catholics and even some journalists just going, okay. But the strangest

00:24:30.080 thing is that the cardinals who are supposed to be dealing with this really aren't. And that's

00:24:40.880 that's one of the things that is the most disturbing to me you know while there was

00:24:46.700 some dubia during the francis era um there was never a correction and now the situation's worse

00:24:54.060 to me because now we don't have a dubia and we have the american pope speaking in english

00:25:01.140 and telling us heresy a la francis and there's no correction not even from the american cardinals

00:25:08.100 And the new American cardinals that are appointed here are all singing the same tune, which is a non-Catholic tune.

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00:26:14.320 retreat and see you in november back to the original thesis and let's be consistent with

00:26:21.420 the caveat that i'm not the final adjudicator but if jorge mario bergoglio better known as francis

00:26:27.460 who came to Rome from obscurity

00:26:29.440 was one of our 30-plus antipopes in history. 0.95

00:26:32.720 Remember, we'll get into the Great Western Sism 0.62

00:26:35.060 and St. Vincent Farrar 0.97

00:26:36.660 and an unlettered woman from Siena named Catherine

00:26:39.600 in a few minutes.

00:26:41.620 But if the thesis is correct

00:26:43.780 and the Vatican court finds that

00:26:45.300 the Holy Father's resignation was invalid

00:26:48.480 for all the reasons that Cianci has been talking about, 0.85

00:26:52.200 that only means that Leo is the next antipope

00:26:55.000 in the line

00:26:56.400 because of the cardinal electors having been null and void if Francis is an antipope. 0.63

00:27:03.520 So the next one, we've just kicked the can down the avenue one more step.

00:27:07.660 What you're supposed to have is a validly elected pope, and that's how you get your cardinals.

00:27:11.860 He names the cardinals.

00:27:12.700 The difficulty is if Benedict's resignation was invalid, then in comes Francis, not pope, but antipope.

00:27:21.120 Therefore, all those bishops whom he names to be cardinals aren't really cardinals.

00:27:27.220 And he named 108 of the supposed to be 120, but I think they brought it, I think it was 133 at the end, of the cardinals who did the election of Leo later.

00:27:40.380 So that would therefore invalidate the whole thing.

00:27:43.120 That's an important thing.

00:27:44.640 University of Dominator Granger says 120 electors.

00:27:48.240 There was 133 that gave Robert Prevost the white hat.

00:27:55.180 Also, there was a cell phone found on one of the cardinals after the announcement, extra

00:27:59.920 ominous.

00:28:00.480 Everybody out, now we're going to start this election process.

00:28:04.500 You can't have cell phones.

00:28:05.860 Another cardinal was reported to have left.

00:28:08.160 So there are anomalies that are probably going to be part of this investigation.

00:28:13.100 Yeah, those anomalies pertain to the election of Leo, of Robert Prevost.

00:28:17.920 as as uh as leo the 14th and uh those are all down the line because one of the questions you're

00:28:24.180 going to get patrick is what now like i mean how how can this possibly be how can you say

00:28:31.300 that benedict's resignation wasn't valid so then i guess you'd be saying that he was pope till

00:28:36.080 actually he died uh even though he didn't act like it and then all of this stuff is null and

00:28:42.040 void, what does that make of the sainthoods of John Paul II and of Padre Pio, not to mention

00:28:51.980 Paul VI and others like that? Isn't it just too big a mess? Isn't this just too much?

00:28:57.540 No, I'll give you two examples why it's not too much, because words have meanings. Catholics are 1.00

00:29:02.600 very devoted to the idea of logos. Logos, the Greek word in John 1 verse 1, it's the name of 0.98

00:29:11.220 Jesus Christ our Lord. He's the Logos Incarnate. And so words matter. There are two cases of

00:29:17.300 American priests. One is Father Matthew Hood. I forget the other one. One is from the Diocese

00:29:20.800 of Phoenix. The other one is from the Archdiocese of Detroit. Both of these priests happened to look

00:29:26.560 at the video footage of their own baptisms and discovered to their consternation at first and

00:29:31.720 their horror later that the priest and or the deacon who baptized them as babies said,

00:29:38.480 we baptize you. It's very Vatican II, you know, kind of hippy-dippy, us the community instead of

00:29:43.920 I, first person singular. We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the

00:29:49.020 Holy Spirit. Both the cases were sent to Rome to be looked at by the Congregation for the Doctrine

00:29:55.780 of the Faith, and both were found to be invalid baptisms. What does that mean? It means that all

00:30:01.940 the other subsequent sacraments celebrated and received by these men were invalid, including

00:30:07.520 confirmation, including holy orders. What a mess. But both Archbishop Vigneron and Bishop Thomas

00:30:13.920 Olmsted made an announcement. Both men were conditionally reconfirmed and reordained to

00:30:22.040 the priesthood, which means all of their sacramental confessions did not impart valid

00:30:27.360 absolution. Yeah, it's a mess, but words have meanings. So if a priest says, this is not my

00:30:35.580 body as he's holding up the host, Jesus Christ does not become present in the Eucharist.

00:30:41.120 Words matter. Even small details. I mean, the difference between I and we is like one letter,

00:30:47.840 but it's the difference between validity and invalidity. So to be consistent now, and again,

00:30:53.020 I want to keep saying the same thing. Don't trust my opinion. This is all going to be worked out by

00:30:57.420 the people who have the competence to do so. But if Bergoglio was never a true pope, all his

00:31:04.640 canonizations would have to be conditionally redone, and as well as the elevation of archbishops

00:31:11.060 to cardinals. To be consistent, that's where all the dominoes fall, and they would all have to be

00:31:15.940 done. We live in this little island called the present moment, John Henry, I know you know this,

00:31:22.920 where we assume the church has never had a horrible rodeo like this. I mean, the sky is

00:31:28.200 falling. We're abandoned orphans. We're sativacontists. We're, you know, fringy lunatics now.

00:31:32.160 we've had 30 plus antipopes the holy spirit has had a 100 track record of sorting all of this out

00:31:39.980 the western schism the avenue on papacy there was 70 years of confusion you had father vincent

00:31:47.280 ferrar the great dominican uh preacher i mean talk about a miracle worker this great dominican

00:31:53.180 he was encouraging people to follow clement the seventh but saint catherine of siena publicly

00:31:59.400 rebuked him and said no the true pope is in rome urban the sixth he's the one he's the vicar of

00:32:04.220 christ saint vincent was wrong saint catherine was right so there can be holy good civil people on

00:32:10.860 both sides of the debate and this question will get resolved and i pray that this um the vatican

00:32:17.820 court of justice is the fulcrum kind of the the diamond edge of the icebreaker to finally sort

00:32:23.560 this out one of the key things that makes it better rather than worse because even though

00:32:28.640 yeah redoing all those canonizations redoing all those bishops or cardinals and hopefully we'd have

00:32:35.220 some different cardinals one thing is made better and i think this is actually i think the better

00:32:40.660 side wins out because the errors that we see in multiple papal documents and i'm not just talking

00:32:49.060 about fiducius supplicat so that there's gay couple blessings i'm not talking just about

00:32:54.060 Amoris Laetitia. I'm talking about Traditiones Custodes, the sequestering and almost work toward

00:33:00.040 the elimination of Latin mass. I'm talking about the equating of immigration and abortion 1.00

00:33:08.500 in political decision-making as is done in Gaudete de Exultate. So I'm talking about the allowance,

00:33:17.520 the papal document that says the only thing that's required to receive Holy Communion 0.54

00:33:22.300 is faith in a document I call the Nancy Pelosi document, because that was done to punish or get

00:33:31.460 back at Archbishop Corleone, who after 10 years refused Pelosi communion, the pro-abort stalwart

00:33:36.840 that she is. Bergoglio reverses that decision three times, calls him out publicly, and then

00:33:43.440 writes this document that allows for, and gives her, she received communion at the papal mass

00:33:51.740 when she met with Beroglio. And the document is released on that day. Hence why I call it the

00:33:59.740 Nancy Pelosi document. It's called the Desiderio Desideravi. And I think that's the one that even

00:34:06.400 Bishop Schneider, Bishop Strickland called out for heresy, actually using that term. So there's

00:34:12.800 all sorts of official papal documents with heresy that are impossible. So I think actually

00:34:21.440 the corrective were the Vatican court or the powers that should decide, no, by the way, guys,

00:34:28.860 we have to backtrack. Even though it seems like a gut-wrenching nightmare, nauseating,

00:34:35.060 it's nauseating more so on the other side. So yeah, it would clear up a lot while it would also

00:34:41.640 costs a lot. But we're in a huge mess. Catholics have been riding on the fumes of

00:34:47.480 their addiction to pleasure and happiness and comfort. By happiness, I mean human satisfaction. 1.00

00:34:53.700 Some pleasures can kill you. Opioid addiction. Some pains can save your life, like surgery.

00:34:59.780 So we're in for some heart surgery. And it's not going to be easy. There are going to be times of

00:35:04.460 confusion and topsy-turvy. But this is the romance of orthodoxy. Our Lord has a precedence of having

00:35:11.360 a power nap in his boat, right? And the waves were swamping. These are seasoned fishermen who

00:35:16.880 were afraid for their lives. This is our taste of the crisis of the apostles. It's really interesting

00:35:21.580 because that actually flows right into the Great Western Schism because it was actually one of the

00:35:28.060 theologians at the time, or maybe historians at the time, writes that this happened to us so that

00:35:33.000 in the future, if this happens again, they'll know that we went through it and that it is possible.

00:35:38.460 so in the great western schism you have 39 years of nobody knowing who the right pope is

00:35:46.120 and in fact you have two saints on either side of the question you have the as you call her

00:35:53.040 unlettered woman um catherine sienna then you have the great prelate saint vincent ferre who

00:36:01.480 is running around doing miracles and he's a priest um and yet the priest the prelate who's

00:36:10.020 running around doing miracles is on the wrong side of who the pope is not once but twice

00:36:15.800 um and catherine of siena is the one banging the drum in much the way you do patrick with with

00:36:21.780 words that are uh strong sometimes to uh warn the cardinals the church and the false popes

00:36:29.000 that they are doing the work of the devil in just about those words.

00:36:34.480 So it is stunning that that played out then for 39 years

00:36:39.620 as we are experiencing this now.

00:36:42.680 And there's saints on both sides of that question,

00:36:46.660 both undoubted saints.

00:36:48.620 And that gives me a lot of comfort, actually,

00:36:51.900 knowing that I've got great friends on both sides of this debate.

00:36:55.860 Probably one of the holiest prelates in the whole wide world that I know of is Bishop Athanasius Schneider. He's probably the hardest core guy on absolutely Bergoglio was Francis the Pope. And yet you have very good and holy priests who say absolutely not.

00:37:18.020 And I'll mention a few of them because his superior, former superior, was one of them.

00:37:23.620 Archbishop Jan Pavalenga is one of those ones who says Francis was not the pope, that he was an anti-pope.

00:37:31.000 Another one of those is Bishop Grasida from America.

00:37:35.960 And he was over 100 years old, mind you.

00:37:38.040 But nonetheless, he said that as well.

00:37:41.740 Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, most famously.

00:37:45.640 And suffered the consequences for it.

00:37:48.020 But yet, holy men.

00:37:50.300 So in our day, we're going on 14, 15 years now under this absolute confusion of what the heck's going on.

00:37:59.900 And I think very saintly men of our own day on either side of the question.

00:38:03.980 To which you could add Father Giorgio Maria Fade, who was quickly excommunicated for his troubles.

00:38:10.380 I don't know if you read his October 13th from two years ago, his homily on it.

00:38:14.800 It's the most pristine, compressed version of it.

00:38:18.020 Never refute it, but like what's happened to you, you just become an insta-pariah and people say bad things about you.

00:38:24.400 COVID to me was such a big mask-dropping red pill dispensary.

00:38:30.040 The massive scale of deception and lies.

00:38:33.820 And it makes you wonder what else have they been lying to us about.

00:38:36.400 If you speak up against it, people don't need evidence.

00:38:39.440 They just want to go full tilt at hominem.

00:38:41.660 Today happens to be the exact one-year anniversary of the death of Francis to the day.

00:38:45.700 um so have you seen the diary diary entry from 1936 of the diary of saint saint faustina i don't

00:38:55.420 have it in front of me but she she writes that day that she suffered more in this day

00:38:59.420 and this is a woman who suffered a lot more more suffering in this day she didn't even know how she

00:39:04.640 endured it she had a sense of of dread and dis-ease and um i was suffering specifically

00:39:09.960 for priests that was the day that bergocli was born so what about the charge of sativacontism

00:39:14.700 I want to hit this hard because this is the word they use to change the subject and deflect and gaslight you.

00:39:22.200 If it rains, does that make me a rainist?

00:39:25.000 They employ Sedevacontist to make the evidence of what happened in March 2013 identified with the 1958 version of Sedevacontism that says that it was really Cardinal Sirian.

00:39:38.440 he was swapped out and we got this mason john the 23rd and therefore all popes since then are

00:39:44.040 invalid vatican ii as a crock we have to get back to the pre-1950 catholic church well all that does

00:39:50.080 john henry is prove that christ wasn't god because that means the office of peter has failed

00:39:55.180 all the cardinals who elected pious the 12th who died that year 1958 they're all dead you can't

00:40:01.340 resurrect a cardinal to have this valid succession continue of the office of peter so that doesn't

00:40:05.860 work. Let me just interject there for a second. There, there is a way of doing things another way

00:40:11.340 because there has to be. So if this situation continues till all of the validly appointed

00:40:19.120 cardinals, appointed cardinal, uh, before, uh, Francis came on scene, uh, if all of them are

00:40:26.420 gone and dead, we won't have nowhere to go. We won't have nothing to do because there can be

00:40:31.940 an extraordinary conclave. In the past, remember the invention of cardinals choosing the Pope

00:40:39.080 is a modern invention. Before you had bishops choosing Popes, you had the priests of Rome

00:40:47.460 choosing Popes. So there is a way out of it, even without that. So that's not the way to dismiss

00:40:55.980 the Sedevacantus charge. And there's lots there, but it is used as a bogeyman to say, oh, because

00:41:03.560 there's all sorts of difference as well. What do you mean when you say Sedevacantus? There's one

00:41:07.200 version that says it's Pius XII, another version says it's Pius V. Who knows? But one thing I can

00:41:12.720 tell you, this nonsense from the officials in the church today, they've actually given a better name

00:41:20.200 to set of accountism set of accountism has never been more popular than today uh because

00:41:26.060 they're refusing to acknowledge hey we've got a problem here they're saying no no no go ahead

00:41:31.260 it's all good it's all fine and that that has done more to advance set of accountism than anything

00:41:36.260 else so many catholics find themselves and by this i mean catholic influencers trad con people

00:41:41.860 who write books and give conferences they're in a kind of ecclesial stockholm syndrome relationship 0.69

00:41:48.240 with toxic leadership and they must be you know having wrist damage from all the hand wringing

00:41:55.300 in refusing to look at the evidence that you and i were talking about because it does fit that it

00:42:00.020 does fit the facts that the man from buenos aires never had the holy spirit but as a charism to

00:42:06.380 protect the church from error through his office that does fit the facts i mean it's a long long

00:42:11.140 list you've probably forgotten more of the of the either the heretical things or the the um

00:42:16.860 untoward alliances the praising of abortionists the willing partnering with with all things

00:42:22.100 masonic all of it who am i to judge the whole list that does make sense if he didn't have the

00:42:27.880 holy spirit so let me let me just skip just in the interest of of consistency i watched a video

00:42:34.220 again it's an impromptu thing so please don't write me and say it was an official document i

00:42:39.220 know that but pope leo was asked by a female journalist you probably remember this about the

00:42:44.780 Award for Courage or some such by Cardinal Cupich of Chicago to Dick Durbin, the so-called Catholic,

00:42:51.780 he's a faux Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-redefining marriage guy. And the journalist asked Leo

00:42:59.520 about the consternation among American Catholics. This is confusing. Do you have any clarifying

00:43:05.380 thoughts on this? And the first thing that Leo said was, well, he didn't really know much about

00:43:10.940 the facts of the case but then he spoke for five minutes exhibiting a detailed knowledge of the

00:43:15.700 facts of the case that Durbin had served the U.S. Senate for 40 years and that the people of

00:43:21.060 of Illinois have have a right to you know consistently it was just kind of meandering

00:43:26.260 but then he said I will say that if you believe you say you're pro-life but you also support the

00:43:33.040 death penalty you're not truly pro-life well I'm not a canon lawyer but that sounds like at least

00:43:40.360 material heresy. Am I overplaying the card? You can support what the church has for 2,000 years

00:43:45.860 and be consistent that the death penalty is of a completely different moral character

00:43:50.780 than the killing of an innocent baby. That is the be-all and end-all for, it should have been,

00:43:56.320 for the pro-life movement. When you say that, well, if you say you're against abortion and you're not

00:44:01.640 against the death penalty, you're not really pro-life, that is a smack in the face of all 0.82

00:44:05.840 pro-lifers period but especially all pro-life catholics because it is the teaching of the

00:44:10.960 church that the death penalty is permissible so now the pope is making you decide between being 0.60

00:44:17.100 a catholic and a pro-lifer which of course is his in his own mind um so it was stunning but to me

00:44:25.380 you know there's a worse one um and the worst one believe it or not is what happened with our lady 0.65

00:44:33.100 So under Leo, we have a document that strips Our Lady of her titles of co-redemptrix and

00:44:40.960 mediatrix of all graces.

00:44:42.300 To me, that's completely unconscionable.

00:44:44.440 But it is a document of the Congregation for the, or Dicastery for the Doctrine of Faith

00:44:49.840 signed by Pope Leo, approved by, and approved for publication by Pope Leo.

00:44:55.460 So that makes it part of his teaching magisterium.

00:44:58.980 It makes it an official document on faith and morals, and it is so evil.

00:45:07.140 So there's a thing with all guys, and Patrick, you know this, if you want to pick on me,

00:45:12.500 go ahead.

00:45:13.440 Don't you dare pick on my mom.

00:45:15.240 I interviewed Father Ralea.

00:45:17.220 Father Isaac Ralea is a great guy.

00:45:19.720 He's a very tough guy, a very tough priest, a no-nonsense kind of a guy, and he was a

00:45:26.060 street fighter.

00:45:26.620 He told me that, you know, he didn't like to fight, but he was a very big guy.

00:45:32.120 So a lot of guys like to pick on big guys and get them in a fight.

00:45:35.340 And they, you know, push him and taunt him and kick him and call him all sorts of names.

00:45:40.820 And he'd be like, nothing, nothing, nothing.

00:45:41.980 And then it always resort to attacking his mother.

00:45:44.320 And that's when he fought.

00:45:45.640 And to be honest, I think that's a man's reaction.

00:45:49.160 Jesus is a man.

00:45:50.660 And they came after him over and over again.

00:45:53.180 They came after his teaching.

00:45:54.140 when they came after his mother and now they've done that i think you cross the line and that's

00:46:00.000 why i'm hoping in some ways hoping in some ways really afraid that you know the hand of the lord

00:46:05.920 is going to come down because in apparition after apparition our lady always said i'm restraining

00:46:11.520 the hand of my son it what wants to fall in judgment upon the earth i can see him saying

00:46:16.900 yeah mom now they've gone after you i want to thank john henry for his time and his expertise

00:46:22.040 lifesitenews.com. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Patrick. God bless you. And yeah,

00:46:26.840 lifesitenews.com. You can catch us direct, catch us on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram,

00:46:32.280 all the regular channels, lifesitenews.com.

00:46:38.720 Hi, I'm Liz Yor. I'm really urging all the audience to continue to follow

00:46:44.020 LifeSite News for all information, news about life, for a great perspective on all the breaking

00:46:52.500 news in the world. Thank you for watching and continue to watch and follow LifeSite News.

The John-Henry Westen Show - May 15, 2026

Was Benedict XVI Still Pope？ Vatican Petition Sparks Debate ｜ Patrick Coffin

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