The John-Henry Westen Show - May 15, 2026


Was Benedict XVI Still Pope？ Vatican Petition Sparks Debate ｜ Patrick Coffin

Topics
Vatican Criminal Court investigation of Benedict XVI resignation
Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Guests
Patrick Coffin
Mentioned
Pope Benedict Pope Francis Andrea Cianci John Henry John Paul II Nicholas Gruner Bergoglio Amoris Laetitia Robert Prevost Benedict XVI Peter Seewald Jesus Christ Dick Durbin Isaac Mary Ralea Pope Leo Daniels Fatima Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano La Ticentencia Excommunication Archbishop Jan Pavalenga and 36 more
Tabernacle Off to the Side？ Archbishop Sheen Would Have NONE of It Can Europe Return to God？ Fatima and the Rise of the Faithful Remnant

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Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

166.0

Word count

7,800

Sentence count

354

Harmful content

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In the wake of the announcement that the Vatican Criminal Court has accepted Andrea Cianci's petition for a canonical inquiry into what went wrong with Pope Benedict XVI, John Henry Newman steps up to the plate to speak to Patrick Cavanagh.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 The problem is that's one of three public sources that I'm aware of
00:00:03 where canonical crimes were committed in the lead-up and during the conclave that gave us Francis.
00:00:12 Hey my friends, we are here with Patrick Coffin, one of the very well-known podcasters who has
00:00:19 gone down that rabbit hole of saying that Francis was not the Pope. He did so out loud by himself
00:00:25 when it would really cost to do that.
00:00:28 Now that we had the news from Andrea Cianci
00:00:31 that the Vatican Criminal Court
00:00:34 has actually accepted his canonical question
00:00:38 or petition to the court, if you will,
00:00:40 opening this case of what went down
00:00:43 with Benedict's resignation.
00:00:44 There's no one better to speak to than Patrick Coffin
00:00:46 because he has been banging this drum longer than most.
00:00:50 Patrick, welcome to the program.
00:00:51 Thanks, John Henry.
00:00:52 Great to be with you, as always.
00:00:53 Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:00:55 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
00:01:00 Amen.
00:01:00 We're going to be talking about the news dropped by LifeSite News and the work of Andre Cianci, who is an art historian and a journalist.
00:01:10 He's written thousands of articles, and he's done, I don't know how many podcast interviews.
00:01:15 It's all in the thousands since, well, going on 10 years now, with respect to two pieces of evidence that I want to talk about and get your take on John Henry.
00:01:25 because you really launched this that really got my attention last week when I saw the headline
00:01:29 Vatican Criminal Court to investigate the abdication of Pope Benedict XVI. Obviously I've
00:01:34 been waiting for this day for a long time and I think we should make some very very important
00:01:40 distinctions and the first is just as we kind of set the table together you and I are not the
00:01:45 adjudicators I'm not a cardinal I'm a guy with a laptop and a curious mind I have never I've never
00:01:51 sold myself as the final word on this question. But what I'm aiming to do is to encourage Catholics
00:01:58 around the world to at least look at the evidence. My opinion is, I want you to consider my opinion
00:02:04 to be worthless. However, we do have a body of canon law, which is binding on the faithful.
00:02:11 And the two pieces of canon law that we're going to talk about, one is a very important
00:02:15 epistle of constitution that was written by John Paul II in 1995. It's called Universi
00:02:20 Dominici Gregis, and the other one is the 1983 Code of Canon Law, specifically from
00:02:26 1983, specifically Canon 332.2.
00:02:30 So we're going to talk about UDG, University of Dominici Gregis, and the Code, Canon 332.
00:02:37 So for all you legal nerds out there, we're going to point you to sources, and you're
00:02:42 going to have to decide.
00:02:43 I always tell my audiences and the people who follow me and members of the True North
00:02:46 community that we're essentially jurors on a trial called life we're not the prosecutor we're not the
00:02:53 defense we're not the judge but we are jurors and so the evidence that we're going to talk about
00:02:58 today is important for you to sift through and come to your own decisions I believe this thesis
00:03:02 does fit the facts of what happened to the Catholic Church since March of 2013 there's a lot
00:03:08 of things that we're going to talk about today you've never heard before and I'm very very glad
00:03:12 to be speaking with the man who broke it and John Henry you you were ahead of the curve in so many
00:03:18 ways about what was really happening under Francis as soon as he arrived in Rome everyone's
00:03:24 cheerleading you know he doesn't wear the evil red shoes he wears the humble brown shoes
00:03:28 and I remember like kind of being irritated by how negative your coverage was except I realized
00:03:35 it's not really refutable you were looking at things as they were not editorializing just kind
00:03:40 of shining a light. Do you regret covering so many of the misdeeds and at least the material
00:03:46 heresies and the kind of Masonic weaponized ambiguity? If you had another chance to cover
00:03:52 the Bergoglian era, would you do anything different? No, if anything, I would have paid
00:03:58 attention the day of when he appeared on the balcony with Daniels. We cottoned on only on day
00:04:03 three when he said that Casper did theology on the knees. And that really is what sent shockwaves
00:04:11 through me. I didn't see the coverage. I listened to it on radio when his election happened. The
00:04:17 resignation of Benedict, had I known enough at the time to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, that would
00:04:24 have been great because that initial part of Francis was so confusing, so gut-wrenching,
00:04:29 so insane it really put your mind through the ringer like how can this be and uh no i wouldn't
00:04:35 do anything anything different at all if anything i wish i wasn't as naive to think that like i was
00:04:42 told by the cardinals at the time oh don't worry amoris this this whole divorce communion remarriage
00:04:49 thing that'll that'll never happen if it did that would be just a revolution and it would
00:04:53 and let that sort of happen so no no regrets other than should have gone harder you and i are in a
00:05:01 very kind of small bubble and we know these names let me just press pause when you say daniels you
00:05:06 mean the man standing to the so stage left behind francis on march the evening of march 13 2013
00:05:13 this is godfrey cardinal daniels of belgium who over 30 years really undermined if not hard to
00:05:20 prove motive, but the church in Belgium has been pretty much decimated under his so-called
00:05:25 leadership. He was caught on audio recording trying to encourage the abuse victim, I'm going
00:05:34 to say this carefully to not get banned, the abuse victim at the hands of his biological uncle who
00:05:39 was a fellow bishop of Cardinal Daniels. The other reason why Daniels is problematic and significant
00:05:45 into this conversation, is that in his biography, the story of how they, by they I mean the St.
00:05:52 Gallen Mafia cardinals, Silvestrini and Cardinal Martini, Karl Lehmann, Karl Marx, excuse me,
00:06:01 Reinhard Marx, and Archbishop Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor of London. This is the kind of
00:06:06 the rump of left-wing cardinals that brought Cardinal Bergoglio from Buenos Aires, and they
00:06:12 schmoozed him and they wined him and dined him. The problem is that's one of three public sources
00:06:16 that I'm aware of where canonical crimes were committed in the lead up and during the conclave
00:06:22 that gave us Francis. The other documentation is the book The Great Reformer, Pope Francis and the
00:06:28 Making of a Radical Pope by Austin Ivory. That chapter called Conclave, that book featured a
00:06:36 chapter called Conclave that the then Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor denounced. He said this is
00:06:42 not true. This is an outrage. These are lies. And so I have a copy of that book, and I read the
00:06:46 chapter. And it confirms the details in the Cardinal Gottfried biography. The third public
00:06:52 source is a lecture at Villanova University in 2013, 14 rather, by Uncle Ted McCarrick, the
00:07:00 highest profile pedophile cardinal in the Catholic Church in America. They all agree. They don't hide
00:07:05 that they brag about the quid pro quo deals and the leveraging of influence to get their man in.
00:07:14 Unfortunately, and this is what I discovered when I read Universi Dominici Gregis,
00:07:18 which is an absolute constitution. You know this, John Henry.
00:07:20 This is the second highest gravity of magisterial documents short of a definition of the faith.
00:07:27 And it lays down the law for future conclaves.
00:07:31 And sections 75 through 81 detail the fact that if you do this, what these cardinals did to get Bergoglio elected,
00:07:39 the punishment is also laid down by John Paul II with the help of Ratzinger.
00:07:44 La Ticentencia Excommunication.
00:07:46 So that's one body of evidence.
00:07:48 The other body of evidence, and I learned this from reading Pope Emeritus' question mark,
00:07:53 the always is also a forever by Colombian attorney Estefania Acosta Ochoa,
00:07:57 And that is the distinction between Munis and Ministerium in light of Canon 332.2.
00:08:03 We're going to get into this.
00:08:05 But I just wanted to lay down who these people are.
00:08:06 You said, Daniels, I know who you meant.
00:08:09 Others may not.
00:08:10 You mentioned another name as well.
00:08:12 Oh, Casper, Walter Casper, the left-leaning German cardinal.
00:08:17 They're all kind of on the same team.
00:08:19 They high-five each other.
00:08:20 They endorse each other's books and so on.
00:08:22 So it's kind of a nexus of heterodox, red-hatted individuals.
00:08:27 Anyway, I just wanted to make sure we're knocking down fourth walls here.
00:08:30 Before we talk about the Vatican criminal court case and the backstory of Andrea Cianci's petitions in Italy, which have finally borne some fruit,
00:08:40 I think it might be helpful to talk about what I regard as the kill shot.
00:08:44 It's just my nickname for it.
00:08:46 And that is not downstream from what was done in the conclave, which is alluded to in Pope Benedict's Declaratio.
00:08:54 These terms are very, very important.
00:08:57 Declaratio is the name of the document.
00:08:59 He wrote it himself in Latin on his walnut desk.
00:09:05 He told Pete Sheawalt that in his autobiography, biography rather, the interview.
00:09:10 Pope Benedict was known for his pristine, accurate Latin.
00:09:12 He lectured in Latin at the PhD level for 40 or 50 years.
00:09:17 And he was the general editor of the Code of Canon Law from 1983.
00:09:20 He knows what he's doing.
00:09:21 He was also one of the drafters and collaborators in the writing of Universi Dominici Gregis.
00:09:26 So he knows, new, canon 332.2, like the back of his hand.
00:09:31 And according to that canon, which does provide for valid papal resignation, you must renounce the office.
00:09:39 John Henry, here's a good analogy. It helps people, I think.
00:09:42 I can renounce driving, but I have a driver's license. I have the right to drive.
00:09:48 So the evidence is that Pope Benedict renounced the ministerium in his resignation letter,
00:09:54 which is the external functions of the papacy, which he did renounce, but he did not renounce
00:09:59 being the pope, the office, the munis of the papacy. That explains why he wore the white papal
00:10:07 cassock, the white papal zacchetto, why he gave the apostolic blessing in writing it in person,
00:10:14 which only popes can do, why he signed his name with the PP pro pontifec. There's several different
00:10:19 ways to understand PP, but it's the official designation of popes. Even Pope Emeritus is
00:10:23 kind of word salad, emeritus in Latin, doesn't mean old retired guy. It means he who merits the
00:10:28 office. Why didn't he go back to Bavaria, as he said many times before when he was the CDF prefect
00:10:34 under John Paul II? He wanted to go back to Bavaria and write big books and pray. Well,
00:10:38 he got elected Pope Benedict XVI, and he stayed in Rome and wrote big books called the Jesus of
00:10:43 Nazareth series. But he didn't return to his native Germany. He stayed at the Mater Ecclesia
00:10:49 Monastery in the enclosure of the Vatican, very close, almost as a kind of catechon, a kind of
00:10:54 a restrainer to what was going on with his successor. So unlike President Nixon, who in
00:11:01 August 1974, in one sentence, validly resigned the office of the Presidency of the United States,
00:11:09 Benedict does not seem to have done that in his Declaratio. Even the word Declaratio,
00:11:14 the title is misnamed. It should have been titled the Renunciatio, the renunciation.
00:11:19 So there's a lot of clues that the Holy Father gave us, and that goes to the expertise of Andrea Cianci, who wrote the best-selling book in Italy.
00:11:27 It's published in English as well. It's called The Ratzinger Code.
00:11:30 Don't want to get too far into the weeds on that, but it's important to kind of lay a foundation why this debate is happening at all,
00:11:37 why Senor Cianci's petition to the Vatican through his many, many, you know, I don't know,
00:11:46 no one's done more work on behalf of the church to settle this than Andoia Cianci.
00:11:51 That's really what I wanted to talk to you about, because this is really difficult to understand
00:11:56 in some respects, because there's a million different theses out there of what's going on,
00:12:02 Because we've never had this happen in the church before where you have authentic documents published on faith and morals of a pope replete with errors.
00:12:14 Errors which have been known to be errors forever.
00:12:18 Sure, in the previous popes you have some errors, but they're in private letters to friends.
00:12:24 They're in a homily.
00:12:26 Nothing in official papal teaching documents on faith and morals.
00:12:31 So there's a first.
00:12:32 but then you you have the vatican court saying the criminal court saying that's accepted
00:12:40 this and investigating it let's make a supposition for what lots of people are going to think right
00:12:44 oh that guy is such a bother he's been around for like a decade he keeps banging the drum
00:12:50 we're so sick of him just yep and now he asks a question which he did and let's refuse to answer
00:12:57 room why would we refuse well because there's the case we're looking at the case you know yeah yeah
00:13:02 yeah but except that it's actually an official court that sent him an official document saying 0.89
00:13:09 by the way your case is under investigation i i can't say the vatican is stupid especially not 0.91
00:13:19 people at that high level obviously this guy's going to use it he's used everything 0.97
00:13:26 So either the Vatican's crazy and they want, I don't know, they're making it up and needed a
00:13:32 real oops, but that doesn't make any sense. Or they're actually looking at this thing.
00:13:36 And then the question comes, why? Why would they look at this thing?
00:13:42 Chianchi is regarded as a kook by so many people who haven't looked at the evidence,
00:13:46 by the way. But then there's a whole bunch of people, very smart people, linguists and canonists
00:13:54 who have looked at it and take it seriously so it can't be just blown off as the guy's wacko and
00:14:03 no so then what then we come to this essential distinction which actually got you into it
00:14:09 um that i know you you accredit to estefania her book and many people believe this do you know
00:14:17 So Father Gruner of the very famous Fatima, Father Gruner, the one Nicholas Gruner who
00:14:24 promoted Fatima like nobody else, he believed this. And it led to, I think, a big battle in
00:14:32 his own organization because it was so controversial. Daring to say this stuff gets you
00:14:37 canceled massively. Even for opening the question got me canceled from a ton of stuff. And all I
00:14:46 said was can't we just get an answer just hello can you tell us please so the point though is
00:14:53 what is this thing this is the difference between munis and ministerium and what you said there is
00:14:58 is so key because you talked about how benedict is a latinist of great renown and that's proved by
00:15:08 a all of his background um and this is an older man and in the church they all had to know latin
00:15:14 they said their masses in latin when he grew up when he learned to be a priest it was all about
00:15:20 latin and as you said he worked through the vatican when they still worked it all in latin so
00:15:28 wait wait wait this guy is an absolute great latinist now the other piece of weird evidence
00:15:34 is we know because we got told that when did benedict first consider the resignation well
00:15:43 he knew growing in that he might resign because he said, let me pray for me that I don't flee
00:15:50 from the wolves. But also the comes out from Peter Zewald, who is of course his biographer
00:15:57 official, his very close friend, that he knew he had to do it when? In 2012, when he went on the
00:16:05 trip to Cuba and Mexico. And he says it, you know, he, he had a fall. Now it's weird too,
00:16:13 because, uh, Zevald only reveals this letter in 2023, only a few years ago. So it's like,
00:16:22 what's that about? But anyway, he does, he reveals it and it says it's a private confidential letter
00:16:28 from Benedict to Zevald. And it says that he decided for sure to do it on that trip. Why?
00:16:35 He had some kind of massive fall, so much so.
00:16:40 It was so bad that when he woke up the next morning, he had a handkerchief full of blood.
00:16:46 And yet, Benedict doesn't remember the fall.
00:16:49 He doesn't remember falling.
00:16:50 So that's weird all by itself, but that's when he says he decided.
00:16:55 So he knows then from the spring of 2012 to when he made the announcement in February of 2013 that he's going to do this.
00:17:03 she's a long time to prep and so this latin expert who has like a year to prepare this statement
00:17:10 goes ahead and makes the statement we're in the key line of saying he's renouncing it
00:17:18 says i'm gonna give up driving my car not the license i'm gonna hold on to the license but
00:17:23 i'm gonna give up driving my car what wait wait hello it says in canon law that you have to give
00:17:31 up the munis, the actual office. And the key line, he says, I'm going to give up the administration
00:17:39 of the office. And that's it. That's what is driving me crazy. That's what initially led
00:17:45 you to say, whoa, something's up here. That was all part of the red pill journey. And the big one
00:17:50 on the doctrinal side was Amoris Laetitia. By the way, I was doing some research and I used voice
00:17:55 text recognition in my phone, and it came out as amorous Letitia. So that's, I just call it
00:18:01 amorous Letitia now. And something else happened that Andrea Cianci reported on recently. I wasn't
00:18:06 aware of this. I didn't know the details. But in March, so March 26th and 27th in Santiago, Cuba,
00:18:15 there was an attempt on Pope Benedict's life by poisoning. And if you look at the footage of him
00:18:20 arriving at the airport on the 26th and what he's like in the morning of the 27th he looks like a
00:18:26 zombie he's out of it he's uh he looks like he's in great pain and he survived it in addition to
00:18:32 the fall that's the same story now andrea suggests that it has to be a poisoning because of so it is
00:18:41 known that benedict had insomnia so he's taking some sleeping pills but the he would have gone
00:18:48 through that normally everybody who has such difficulties is used to a regimen something
00:18:53 must have happened because he was so overdosed that not only did he have this fall he forgets
00:19:01 that he had the fall so uh something's really strange and and i think i think it's andrea's
00:19:07 position that this must have been a poisoning or or something of that sort yeah i heard that from
00:19:12 another source as well but that's that's the behavior of an addict and it sounds like
00:19:16 And according to Andrea Cionci, that was acknowledged at some point by Benedict that he was addicted to these insomnia pills.
00:19:24 I met, by God's grace, in my friendship with Cardinal Burke, I had a 10-minute meeting with Pope Benedict in early April of that same year, 2012, in Rome.
00:19:33 I introduced him to my father, may he rest in peace.
00:19:35 That was quite a moment.
00:19:39 The Holy Father looked very, very peaceful.
00:19:41 I now know that he'd already decided to get out in the moments that I had to spend with him.
00:19:46 but one thing the cameras do not pick up about Pope Benedict is that he's like this ocean of
00:19:51 serenity uh it just radiated out of him he was gentle uh he was tired that morning but he seemed
00:19:57 very very alert and he had that that carism that John Paul II did that when you're looking at him
00:20:02 it's like no one else is no one else matters but the one person then another person then another
00:20:07 person so that was um strange I mean I still have the photos it's a bit of a pinch me moment
00:20:12 And just knowing that what that was like on the timeline makes it all real.
00:20:19 This thing, to go back to it, this Munos and Ministerium thing, it is very disturbing, but it relates also to other things that he said.
00:20:27 So there is some weird stuff about what Benedict himself said and what his secretary, Genswein, said about Benedict's resignation.
00:20:39 because they spoke against find it anyway of a bifurcation of the papacy of a sort of prayerful
00:20:47 part and an active part and that's really strange because that goes back to your example of the
00:20:56 driver's license and i'm not going to drive my car but i'm going to hold on to the license
00:21:00 what did you make of that um people were saying the bifurcation of the papacy like that's not
00:21:06 possible and i agree with that because when christ established his church there was the
00:21:12 whole point to make one pope so that there would be unity um not two popes so there can't be two
00:21:20 popes and yet it seems that at least by the word of gensfein but also by what benedict himself said
00:21:28 that he's retaining somehow this prayerful part or he can't give up what he was called to do
00:21:33 which I also agree with, by the way.
00:21:35 Unpack that for us.
00:21:37 Well, I think it's Archbishop Gantwine's attempt to square the circle
00:21:41 and to provide cover for his ailing, aging mentor and spiritual father.
00:21:47 There's no such thing as an expanded Petrine ministry
00:21:49 where you've got the active part that does things like issue magistral documents
00:21:53 and the other part over here where it's the praying partner.
00:21:56 That's the two-pope thesis, which has been refuted by the facts as we know them.
00:22:00 So I think it's a well-meaning attempt to try to understand and corral two things and to resolve the cognitive dissonance that's looking you in the face.
00:22:10 So I think it's better that we stick as closely as we can to the documents that Benedict appealed to,
00:22:19 Università Dominici Greggis and Canon 332.2.
00:22:22 Those are very, very important.
00:22:25 Another thing to piggyback on this answer, John Henry, is that there's a tradition in understanding papal teaching which puts priority over what a pope says and not what a document or someone who's transcribed what he says.
00:22:42 So the spoken voice in this case is knowable because it happened on live international television on February 11, 2013, when Pope Benedict, seated, reads his Declaratio.
00:22:56 And we now know, thanks to the uncovering of Cianci and others, that the Secretary of State, Bertoni, and his successor, Parolin, they have played fast and loose with the actual words that Pope Benedict used.
00:23:10 And there's several striking examples where if you slow the tape down, he's not saying what Vatican.va now says he said.
00:23:17 There's too many examples to go into here.
00:23:18 But very important to stick to the evidence as we see it as closely as we can and try to put speculation on the back burner.
00:23:27 I don't have magical soul reading apparatus.
00:23:29 I really don't know what Archbishop Ganswein's motives are.
00:23:33 But that kind of fed into the two-pope thesis, which, you know, Jesus did not pick Peter, oh, also Andrew, to be the prayer partner.
00:23:44 You know, it's one Lord, one faith, one papacy.
00:23:46 That's the unity.
00:23:47 That's why it's called the one holy Catholic and apostolic church.
00:23:51 The faith is essentially simple.
00:23:53 A well-formed seven-year-old can grasp this.
00:23:55 And I think antics with semantics trying to square a circle are not going to get us much
00:24:00 light and unfortunately just more heat.
00:24:03 And so it's very clear that you have to give up the munis.
00:24:06 And it's very clear that in the key sentence where he talks about giving it up, he doesn't
00:24:09 say the munis.
00:24:10 So that's the weirdest thing that's driving, I think, the whole thing, driving the acceptance
00:24:15 of this case before this Vatican criminal court that has got a lot of theologians, canonists
00:24:23 and well-meaning Catholics and even some journalists just going, okay. But the strangest
00:24:30 thing is that the cardinals who are supposed to be dealing with this really aren't. And that's
00:24:40 that's one of the things that is the most disturbing to me you know while there was
00:24:46 some dubia during the francis era um there was never a correction and now the situation's worse
00:24:54 to me because now we don't have a dubia and we have the american pope speaking in english
00:25:01 and telling us heresy a la francis and there's no correction not even from the american cardinals
00:25:08 And the new American cardinals that are appointed here are all singing the same tune, which is a non-Catholic tune.
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00:26:14 retreat and see you in november back to the original thesis and let's be consistent with
00:26:21 the caveat that i'm not the final adjudicator but if jorge mario bergoglio better known as francis
00:26:27 who came to Rome from obscurity
00:26:29 was one of our 30-plus antipopes in history. 0.95
00:26:32 Remember, we'll get into the Great Western Sism 0.62
00:26:35 and St. Vincent Farrar 0.97
00:26:36 and an unlettered woman from Siena named Catherine
00:26:39 in a few minutes.
00:26:41 But if the thesis is correct
00:26:43 and the Vatican court finds that
00:26:45 the Holy Father's resignation was invalid
00:26:48 for all the reasons that Cianci has been talking about, 0.85
00:26:52 that only means that Leo is the next antipope
00:26:55 in the line
00:26:56 because of the cardinal electors having been null and void if Francis is an antipope. 0.63
00:27:03 So the next one, we've just kicked the can down the avenue one more step.
00:27:07 What you're supposed to have is a validly elected pope, and that's how you get your cardinals.
00:27:11 He names the cardinals.
00:27:12 The difficulty is if Benedict's resignation was invalid, then in comes Francis, not pope, but antipope.
00:27:21 Therefore, all those bishops whom he names to be cardinals aren't really cardinals.
00:27:27 And he named 108 of the supposed to be 120, but I think they brought it, I think it was 133 at the end, of the cardinals who did the election of Leo later.
00:27:40 So that would therefore invalidate the whole thing.
00:27:43 That's an important thing.
00:27:44 University of Dominator Granger says 120 electors.
00:27:48 There was 133 that gave Robert Prevost the white hat.
00:27:55 Also, there was a cell phone found on one of the cardinals after the announcement, extra
00:27:59 ominous.
00:28:00 Everybody out, now we're going to start this election process.
00:28:04 You can't have cell phones.
00:28:05 Another cardinal was reported to have left.
00:28:08 So there are anomalies that are probably going to be part of this investigation.
00:28:13 Yeah, those anomalies pertain to the election of Leo, of Robert Prevost.
00:28:17 as as uh as leo the 14th and uh those are all down the line because one of the questions you're
00:28:24 going to get patrick is what now like i mean how how can this possibly be how can you say
00:28:31 that benedict's resignation wasn't valid so then i guess you'd be saying that he was pope till
00:28:36 actually he died uh even though he didn't act like it and then all of this stuff is null and
00:28:42 void, what does that make of the sainthoods of John Paul II and of Padre Pio, not to mention
00:28:51 Paul VI and others like that? Isn't it just too big a mess? Isn't this just too much?
00:28:57 No, I'll give you two examples why it's not too much, because words have meanings. Catholics are 1.00
00:29:02 very devoted to the idea of logos. Logos, the Greek word in John 1 verse 1, it's the name of 0.98
00:29:11 Jesus Christ our Lord. He's the Logos Incarnate. And so words matter. There are two cases of
00:29:17 American priests. One is Father Matthew Hood. I forget the other one. One is from the Diocese
00:29:20 of Phoenix. The other one is from the Archdiocese of Detroit. Both of these priests happened to look
00:29:26 at the video footage of their own baptisms and discovered to their consternation at first and
00:29:31 their horror later that the priest and or the deacon who baptized them as babies said,
00:29:38 we baptize you. It's very Vatican II, you know, kind of hippy-dippy, us the community instead of
00:29:43 I, first person singular. We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
00:29:49 Holy Spirit. Both the cases were sent to Rome to be looked at by the Congregation for the Doctrine
00:29:55 of the Faith, and both were found to be invalid baptisms. What does that mean? It means that all
00:30:01 the other subsequent sacraments celebrated and received by these men were invalid, including
00:30:07 confirmation, including holy orders. What a mess. But both Archbishop Vigneron and Bishop Thomas
00:30:13 Olmsted made an announcement. Both men were conditionally reconfirmed and reordained to
00:30:22 the priesthood, which means all of their sacramental confessions did not impart valid
00:30:27 absolution. Yeah, it's a mess, but words have meanings. So if a priest says, this is not my
00:30:35 body as he's holding up the host, Jesus Christ does not become present in the Eucharist.
00:30:41 Words matter. Even small details. I mean, the difference between I and we is like one letter,
00:30:47 but it's the difference between validity and invalidity. So to be consistent now, and again,
00:30:53 I want to keep saying the same thing. Don't trust my opinion. This is all going to be worked out by
00:30:57 the people who have the competence to do so. But if Bergoglio was never a true pope, all his
00:31:04 canonizations would have to be conditionally redone, and as well as the elevation of archbishops
00:31:11 to cardinals. To be consistent, that's where all the dominoes fall, and they would all have to be
00:31:15 done. We live in this little island called the present moment, John Henry, I know you know this,
00:31:22 where we assume the church has never had a horrible rodeo like this. I mean, the sky is
00:31:28 falling. We're abandoned orphans. We're sativacontists. We're, you know, fringy lunatics now.
00:31:32 we've had 30 plus antipopes the holy spirit has had a 100 track record of sorting all of this out
00:31:39 the western schism the avenue on papacy there was 70 years of confusion you had father vincent
00:31:47 ferrar the great dominican uh preacher i mean talk about a miracle worker this great dominican
00:31:53 he was encouraging people to follow clement the seventh but saint catherine of siena publicly
00:31:59 rebuked him and said no the true pope is in rome urban the sixth he's the one he's the vicar of
00:32:04 christ saint vincent was wrong saint catherine was right so there can be holy good civil people on
00:32:10 both sides of the debate and this question will get resolved and i pray that this um the vatican
00:32:17 court of justice is the fulcrum kind of the the diamond edge of the icebreaker to finally sort
00:32:23 this out one of the key things that makes it better rather than worse because even though
00:32:28 yeah redoing all those canonizations redoing all those bishops or cardinals and hopefully we'd have
00:32:35 some different cardinals one thing is made better and i think this is actually i think the better
00:32:40 side wins out because the errors that we see in multiple papal documents and i'm not just talking
00:32:49 about fiducius supplicat so that there's gay couple blessings i'm not talking just about
00:32:54 Amoris Laetitia. I'm talking about Traditiones Custodes, the sequestering and almost work toward
00:33:00 the elimination of Latin mass. I'm talking about the equating of immigration and abortion 1.00
00:33:08 in political decision-making as is done in Gaudete de Exultate. So I'm talking about the allowance,
00:33:17 the papal document that says the only thing that's required to receive Holy Communion 0.54
00:33:22 is faith in a document I call the Nancy Pelosi document, because that was done to punish or get
00:33:31 back at Archbishop Corleone, who after 10 years refused Pelosi communion, the pro-abort stalwart
00:33:36 that she is. Bergoglio reverses that decision three times, calls him out publicly, and then
00:33:43 writes this document that allows for, and gives her, she received communion at the papal mass
00:33:51 when she met with Beroglio. And the document is released on that day. Hence why I call it the
00:33:59 Nancy Pelosi document. It's called the Desiderio Desideravi. And I think that's the one that even
00:34:06 Bishop Schneider, Bishop Strickland called out for heresy, actually using that term. So there's
00:34:12 all sorts of official papal documents with heresy that are impossible. So I think actually
00:34:21 the corrective were the Vatican court or the powers that should decide, no, by the way, guys,
00:34:28 we have to backtrack. Even though it seems like a gut-wrenching nightmare, nauseating,
00:34:35 it's nauseating more so on the other side. So yeah, it would clear up a lot while it would also
00:34:41 costs a lot. But we're in a huge mess. Catholics have been riding on the fumes of
00:34:47 their addiction to pleasure and happiness and comfort. By happiness, I mean human satisfaction. 1.00
00:34:53 Some pleasures can kill you. Opioid addiction. Some pains can save your life, like surgery.
00:34:59 So we're in for some heart surgery. And it's not going to be easy. There are going to be times of
00:35:04 confusion and topsy-turvy. But this is the romance of orthodoxy. Our Lord has a precedence of having
00:35:11 a power nap in his boat, right? And the waves were swamping. These are seasoned fishermen who
00:35:16 were afraid for their lives. This is our taste of the crisis of the apostles. It's really interesting
00:35:21 because that actually flows right into the Great Western Schism because it was actually one of the
00:35:28 theologians at the time, or maybe historians at the time, writes that this happened to us so that
00:35:33 in the future, if this happens again, they'll know that we went through it and that it is possible.
00:35:38 so in the great western schism you have 39 years of nobody knowing who the right pope is
00:35:46 and in fact you have two saints on either side of the question you have the as you call her
00:35:53 unlettered woman um catherine sienna then you have the great prelate saint vincent ferre who
00:36:01 is running around doing miracles and he's a priest um and yet the priest the prelate who's
00:36:10 running around doing miracles is on the wrong side of who the pope is not once but twice
00:36:15 um and catherine of siena is the one banging the drum in much the way you do patrick with with
00:36:21 words that are uh strong sometimes to uh warn the cardinals the church and the false popes
00:36:29 that they are doing the work of the devil in just about those words.
00:36:34 So it is stunning that that played out then for 39 years
00:36:39 as we are experiencing this now.
00:36:42 And there's saints on both sides of that question,
00:36:46 both undoubted saints.
00:36:48 And that gives me a lot of comfort, actually,
00:36:51 knowing that I've got great friends on both sides of this debate.
00:36:55 Probably one of the holiest prelates in the whole wide world that I know of is Bishop Athanasius Schneider. He's probably the hardest core guy on absolutely Bergoglio was Francis the Pope. And yet you have very good and holy priests who say absolutely not.
00:37:18 And I'll mention a few of them because his superior, former superior, was one of them.
00:37:23 Archbishop Jan Pavalenga is one of those ones who says Francis was not the pope, that he was an anti-pope.
00:37:31 Another one of those is Bishop Grasida from America.
00:37:35 And he was over 100 years old, mind you.
00:37:38 But nonetheless, he said that as well.
00:37:41 Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, most famously.
00:37:45 And suffered the consequences for it.
00:37:48 But yet, holy men.
00:37:50 So in our day, we're going on 14, 15 years now under this absolute confusion of what the heck's going on.
00:37:59 And I think very saintly men of our own day on either side of the question.
00:38:03 To which you could add Father Giorgio Maria Fade, who was quickly excommunicated for his troubles.
00:38:10 I don't know if you read his October 13th from two years ago, his homily on it.
00:38:14 It's the most pristine, compressed version of it.
00:38:18 Never refute it, but like what's happened to you, you just become an insta-pariah and people say bad things about you.
00:38:24 COVID to me was such a big mask-dropping red pill dispensary.
00:38:30 The massive scale of deception and lies.
00:38:33 And it makes you wonder what else have they been lying to us about.
00:38:36 If you speak up against it, people don't need evidence.
00:38:39 They just want to go full tilt at hominem.
00:38:41 Today happens to be the exact one-year anniversary of the death of Francis to the day.
00:38:45 um so have you seen the diary diary entry from 1936 of the diary of saint saint faustina i don't
00:38:55 have it in front of me but she she writes that day that she suffered more in this day
00:38:59 and this is a woman who suffered a lot more more suffering in this day she didn't even know how she
00:39:04 endured it she had a sense of of dread and dis-ease and um i was suffering specifically
00:39:09 for priests that was the day that bergocli was born so what about the charge of sativacontism
00:39:14 I want to hit this hard because this is the word they use to change the subject and deflect and gaslight you.
00:39:22 If it rains, does that make me a rainist?
00:39:25 They employ Sedevacontist to make the evidence of what happened in March 2013 identified with the 1958 version of Sedevacontism that says that it was really Cardinal Sirian.
00:39:38 he was swapped out and we got this mason john the 23rd and therefore all popes since then are
00:39:44 invalid vatican ii as a crock we have to get back to the pre-1950 catholic church well all that does
00:39:50 john henry is prove that christ wasn't god because that means the office of peter has failed
00:39:55 all the cardinals who elected pious the 12th who died that year 1958 they're all dead you can't
00:40:01 resurrect a cardinal to have this valid succession continue of the office of peter so that doesn't
00:40:05 work. Let me just interject there for a second. There, there is a way of doing things another way
00:40:11 because there has to be. So if this situation continues till all of the validly appointed
00:40:19 cardinals, appointed cardinal, uh, before, uh, Francis came on scene, uh, if all of them are
00:40:26 gone and dead, we won't have nowhere to go. We won't have nothing to do because there can be
00:40:31 an extraordinary conclave. In the past, remember the invention of cardinals choosing the Pope
00:40:39 is a modern invention. Before you had bishops choosing Popes, you had the priests of Rome
00:40:47 choosing Popes. So there is a way out of it, even without that. So that's not the way to dismiss
00:40:55 the Sedevacantus charge. And there's lots there, but it is used as a bogeyman to say, oh, because
00:41:03 there's all sorts of difference as well. What do you mean when you say Sedevacantus? There's one
00:41:07 version that says it's Pius XII, another version says it's Pius V. Who knows? But one thing I can
00:41:12 tell you, this nonsense from the officials in the church today, they've actually given a better name
00:41:20 to set of accountism set of accountism has never been more popular than today uh because
00:41:26 they're refusing to acknowledge hey we've got a problem here they're saying no no no go ahead
00:41:31 it's all good it's all fine and that that has done more to advance set of accountism than anything
00:41:36 else so many catholics find themselves and by this i mean catholic influencers trad con people
00:41:41 who write books and give conferences they're in a kind of ecclesial stockholm syndrome relationship 0.69
00:41:48 with toxic leadership and they must be you know having wrist damage from all the hand wringing
00:41:55 in refusing to look at the evidence that you and i were talking about because it does fit that it
00:42:00 does fit the facts that the man from buenos aires never had the holy spirit but as a charism to
00:42:06 protect the church from error through his office that does fit the facts i mean it's a long long
00:42:11 list you've probably forgotten more of the of the either the heretical things or the the um
00:42:16 untoward alliances the praising of abortionists the willing partnering with with all things
00:42:22 masonic all of it who am i to judge the whole list that does make sense if he didn't have the
00:42:27 holy spirit so let me let me just skip just in the interest of of consistency i watched a video
00:42:34 again it's an impromptu thing so please don't write me and say it was an official document i
00:42:39 know that but pope leo was asked by a female journalist you probably remember this about the
00:42:44 Award for Courage or some such by Cardinal Cupich of Chicago to Dick Durbin, the so-called Catholic,
00:42:51 he's a faux Catholic, pro-abortion, pro-redefining marriage guy. And the journalist asked Leo
00:42:59 about the consternation among American Catholics. This is confusing. Do you have any clarifying
00:43:05 thoughts on this? And the first thing that Leo said was, well, he didn't really know much about
00:43:10 the facts of the case but then he spoke for five minutes exhibiting a detailed knowledge of the
00:43:15 facts of the case that Durbin had served the U.S. Senate for 40 years and that the people of
00:43:21 of Illinois have have a right to you know consistently it was just kind of meandering
00:43:26 but then he said I will say that if you believe you say you're pro-life but you also support the
00:43:33 death penalty you're not truly pro-life well I'm not a canon lawyer but that sounds like at least
00:43:40 material heresy. Am I overplaying the card? You can support what the church has for 2,000 years
00:43:45 and be consistent that the death penalty is of a completely different moral character
00:43:50 than the killing of an innocent baby. That is the be-all and end-all for, it should have been,
00:43:56 for the pro-life movement. When you say that, well, if you say you're against abortion and you're not
00:44:01 against the death penalty, you're not really pro-life, that is a smack in the face of all 0.82
00:44:05 pro-lifers period but especially all pro-life catholics because it is the teaching of the
00:44:10 church that the death penalty is permissible so now the pope is making you decide between being 0.60
00:44:17 a catholic and a pro-lifer which of course is his in his own mind um so it was stunning but to me
00:44:25 you know there's a worse one um and the worst one believe it or not is what happened with our lady 0.65
00:44:33 So under Leo, we have a document that strips Our Lady of her titles of co-redemptrix and
00:44:40 mediatrix of all graces.
00:44:42 To me, that's completely unconscionable.
00:44:44 But it is a document of the Congregation for the, or Dicastery for the Doctrine of Faith
00:44:49 signed by Pope Leo, approved by, and approved for publication by Pope Leo.
00:44:55 So that makes it part of his teaching magisterium.
00:44:58 It makes it an official document on faith and morals, and it is so evil.
00:45:07 So there's a thing with all guys, and Patrick, you know this, if you want to pick on me,
00:45:12 go ahead.
00:45:13 Don't you dare pick on my mom.
00:45:15 I interviewed Father Ralea.
00:45:17 Father Isaac Ralea is a great guy.
00:45:19 He's a very tough guy, a very tough priest, a no-nonsense kind of a guy, and he was a
00:45:26 street fighter.
00:45:26 He told me that, you know, he didn't like to fight, but he was a very big guy.
00:45:32 So a lot of guys like to pick on big guys and get them in a fight.
00:45:35 And they, you know, push him and taunt him and kick him and call him all sorts of names.
00:45:40 And he'd be like, nothing, nothing, nothing.
00:45:41 And then it always resort to attacking his mother.
00:45:44 And that's when he fought.
00:45:45 And to be honest, I think that's a man's reaction.
00:45:49 Jesus is a man.
00:45:50 And they came after him over and over again.
00:45:53 They came after his teaching.
00:45:54 when they came after his mother and now they've done that i think you cross the line and that's
00:46:00 why i'm hoping in some ways hoping in some ways really afraid that you know the hand of the lord
00:46:05 is going to come down because in apparition after apparition our lady always said i'm restraining
00:46:11 the hand of my son it what wants to fall in judgment upon the earth i can see him saying
00:46:16 yeah mom now they've gone after you i want to thank john henry for his time and his expertise
00:46:22 lifesitenews.com. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Patrick. God bless you. And yeah,
00:46:26 lifesitenews.com. You can catch us direct, catch us on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram,
00:46:32 all the regular channels, lifesitenews.com.
00:46:38 Hi, I'm Liz Yor. I'm really urging all the audience to continue to follow
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