The John-Henry Westen Show - Wife of Judge Bork breaks silence： Joe Biden ‘is not somebody that would make a good president'

00:00:00.000 For anyone wondering what is coming up for the nomination hearings of Judge Amy Coney Barrett

00:00:04.520 for the Supreme Court, this show is going to be of great interest.

00:00:08.240 We're going to be speaking with Mary Ellen Bork, the wife of the late Judge Robert Bork,

00:00:13.280 who was nominated in 1987 to the Supreme Court by President Ronald Reagan.

00:00:18.440 His nomination hearings were so brutal that his name now appears in English dictionaries.

00:00:23.680 To bork someone means to, according to Merriam-Webster, to attack or defeat someone unfairly

00:00:30.660 through an organized campaign of harsh public criticism or vilification.

00:00:34.860 You're going to want to stay tuned for this interview with Mary Ellen Bork.

00:00:53.680 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.

00:00:59.340 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

00:01:04.900 Mrs. Bork, thank you for joining us on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

00:01:10.040 Delighted to be here.

00:01:11.840 Can we start off, if you wouldn't mind, telling us a little bit about yourself?

00:01:15.160 Well, Bob and I were married for 30 years, and it was a very, very happy marriage.

00:01:21.380 Before that, I entered a religious order in the 60s.

00:01:26.800 And then, of course, if you're old enough to remember the 60s and the 70s,

00:01:30.980 a lot of things changed in the culture and in the church and in religious life.

00:01:36.260 And after 15 years, I decided to leave the order.

00:01:41.060 And I took a long time making that decision, but it turned out, I think, to be what God wanted.

00:01:46.200 And I stayed in Washington.

00:01:48.860 I worked there for two years before I met Judge Bork.

00:01:52.360 And his first wife had died in 1980 after a nine-year battle with cancer.

00:02:00.640 But it was an extraordinary experience to share life with someone so brilliant.

00:02:07.020 And he did a great deal of good.

00:02:12.480 Wow.

00:02:12.800 And what is your faith life like now, if you don't mind me asking?

00:02:18.620 I think during this whole quarantine experience we've all lived through,

00:02:24.480 I've actually found it to be a very contemplative experience.

00:02:27.760 Because you're not out and about the way you normally are.

00:02:33.340 And there's been time to do some very serious reading and praying.

00:02:37.440 And our church has adoration every day.

00:02:40.980 So we're very blessed with that.

00:02:44.340 So I find with all that's going on in the culture, we need to go deeper.

00:02:51.500 Absolutely.

00:02:52.200 Absolutely.

00:02:52.580 And can you tell us a little bit about your husband's faith life and maybe what his faith meant in his own personal life?

00:03:01.720 Well, he was not a Catholic when we met.

00:03:05.100 And he had grown up in a household where he didn't have a lot of formation.

00:03:09.920 And I think he met some very strange Catholics early in his life. 0.96

00:03:13.960 So he didn't have the highest opinion of some Catholics.

00:03:17.500 So I thought after we were married, maybe in a year or so, he would come into the church.

00:03:22.800 Well, it took much longer.

00:03:24.320 But he met lots of Catholics and read a lot and finally came into the church in 2003.

00:03:31.440 And he was a very happy Catholic.

00:03:34.540 He really loved what he had learned about the church.

00:03:39.960 In fact, looking back, I think that may be one of the reasons why we met.

00:03:45.640 Beautiful.

00:03:46.080 One of the things that I know we're going to get asked right away, because we have a lot of Orthodox Catholics who follow the show,

00:03:52.000 you were a religious sister, then you got married.

00:03:54.340 How did that work?

00:03:55.160 And was that proper?

00:03:56.220 How did that go?

00:03:59.740 Well, I prayed about these decisions.

00:04:02.800 And I took, as I said, a long time to make the decision to leave the order.

00:04:07.940 But as one of my old professors from Manhattanville said to me one day, he said,

00:04:13.660 it wasn't so much that you left the order.

00:04:15.820 It was that the order left you.

00:04:18.380 And I think there's a great deal of truth to that.

00:04:21.600 And I feel actually guided from that into the experience of meeting Judge Bork and then finally marrying him.

00:04:35.260 Absolutely.

00:04:35.860 You're a great support to him as well.

00:04:38.180 About this nomination meeting that's coming up with Judge Amy Coney Barrett, what would you expect is going to happen here?

00:04:46.940 What do you see happening?

00:04:47.800 Well, you're asking me a question in one of the most extraordinarily different years any one of us has ever lived through.

00:04:57.660 And now we have the problem of the several members of the Judiciary Committee getting the virus and the question of how they're going to vote and can they do it virtually and all this.

00:05:09.540 So I think the Republicans are determined to get this done before the election.

00:05:15.740 But how it's going to happen, I think there are still a lot of questions.

00:05:20.280 I think it's day by day they're trying to figure out how to do it.

00:05:24.060 But I think Mitch McConnell is an amazing man.

00:05:30.560 And if anybody knows how to do it, he does.

00:05:32.780 Yeah.

00:05:33.800 Yeah.

00:05:34.480 Well, we're looking to your own sort of family history, if you will.

00:05:39.540 As to what we think might happen.

00:05:41.820 The left has gone so crazy that they're going to make this like, you know, like a war as it was with your husband.

00:05:50.080 Now, why did the left mobilize to destroy Judge Bork's character when, you know, they had voted unanimously at 98 to 0 just a year earlier to confirm Justice Scalia.

00:06:01.280 So what went on there?

00:06:03.760 That's true.

00:06:04.800 And also my husband's record was almost identical to Justice Scalia.

00:06:09.540 They had sat on the same Court of Appeals in Washington.

00:06:12.820 So, and also the White House, who were managing Bob's nomination.

00:06:18.880 They really thought this was going to be a slam dunk, you know, and immediately, as you recall, on July 1st, when President Reagan announced the nomination, 45 minutes later, Senator Kennedy was there saying, basically, that the country would never be the same.

00:06:38.800 Even if this man got on the court, you know, if this man got on the court, you know, he would destroy everybody's civil liberties.

00:06:44.200 He would not allow abortion.

00:06:46.660 And women would have to have back alley abortions. 1.00

00:06:49.960 I mean, my husband was quite taken aback with this because it didn't reflect any of his judicial philosophy.

00:06:58.080 But what happened from that day and that week on was a tremendous campaign organized out of Senator Teddy Kennedy's office to be sure that this nominee would not get on the court.

00:07:15.120 First of all, he would change the balance on the court.

00:07:18.180 It would be another conservative.

00:07:21.000 Bob didn't like that terminology of calling judges liberal and conservative, but we do it.

00:07:26.760 And they also knew that he was known for his juridical intelligence and his ability to be very persuasive.

00:07:39.420 So they were, the left was very afraid that he would make a change to all the political results that they wanted.

00:07:51.220 And so the campaign started out of Kennedy's office that week, and he gathered about 45 different organizations and their representatives, and they planned out how they were going to, first of all, delay the hearings.

00:08:07.980 And they were delayed for two and a half months, which was very unusual.

00:08:12.100 Usually it happens in the hearings and the judiciary committee meeting and the vote happens maybe a month, 40 days later.

00:08:21.420 But this was giving the left time to organize and create a tremendous sense of urgency about how awful it would be if this man got on the court.

00:08:32.780 And of course, they were extremely successful.

00:08:35.120 They had a massive fundraising campaign, which Bob describes in great detail in his book, which he wrote afterward, called The Tempting of America.

00:08:46.800 But they raised lots of money, and they created a hysteria about how awful it would be if this man got on the court.

00:08:55.560 And he used to, he had a great sense of humor.

00:08:58.820 And he used to say, you know, isn't it extraordinary that they think that one man could really wreck the Bill of Rights and destroy the country? 0.95

00:09:08.340 And of course, that was ridiculous. 0.53

00:09:10.500 But they, it was a drumbeat all summer. 0.61

00:09:14.880 And the White House had never faced anything like this before.

00:09:18.900 So, we would express our concerns and say, why aren't you answering a lot of these lies that are out there?

00:09:28.540 And they said, oh, you're just being nervous, you know.

00:09:32.380 We've done this before.

00:09:33.840 We know how to do it.

00:09:35.080 Well, they had never experienced anything this organized before.

00:09:38.800 So, they were not prepared.

00:09:40.800 They did not answer a lot of the accusations.

00:09:43.160 And as you recall, even now, not this year, but most summers, a lot of groups have their conferences.

00:09:51.820 And that was true in that summer.

00:09:53.740 You had People for the American Way, AFL-CIO, labor leaders got together.

00:09:59.320 The NAACP had conferences.

00:10:01.180 And it was all anti-BORC.

00:10:03.160 And getting people all roused up against it.

00:10:06.720 So, I think this year with Amy Coney Barrett, if the time is actually short, unless they've done a lot of homework, you know, months before, they don't have a lot of time to do that kind of organizing.

00:10:23.180 And I think that will be a good thing for the country because it tends to kind of tear people apart, I think, to, we've got enough on our plate this year.

00:10:32.560 So, I hope that it goes along more smoothly.

00:10:37.880 Absolutely.

00:10:38.540 Absolutely.

00:10:39.180 When you mentioned about Teddy Kennedy, you know, the big Catholic who's actually given a sadly Catholic funeral, which I thought scandalous. 0.65

00:10:49.000 I'm amazed that your husband was able to keep his faith at all, given that absolute insanity.

00:10:55.940 This week, we've had Cardinal Dolan throw his support behind Amy Coney Barrett, stating that, you know, she takes her faith seriously.

00:11:05.060 It's also been said, of course, and as you mentioned, you know, there's a documentary which Robert Burke Jr. was on Fox News about,

00:11:13.600 saying that his confirmation hearing was the first time that all the modern activist tools and technology were marshaled against a Supreme Court nominee.

00:11:23.260 So, with all of that in mind, what role do you think the church played in the nomination of your husband?

00:11:31.700 Not much at all.

00:11:33.140 Well, they, friends were supportive and, but there was, you know, there wasn't any particular thing that I recall.

00:11:43.960 I do know that a lot of people wrote to us and said they were praying for us.

00:11:48.440 And later on, when Bob used to give speeches, he'd say, we heard from every one of the states except Alaska,

00:11:55.140 and I don't know what's wrong with Alaska, that they were, everyone else was praying for us.

00:12:00.980 Yeah.

00:12:01.480 But, uh...

00:12:03.000 It's an incredible thing that the silence of the church really there put,

00:12:09.520 puts a guilty sign on them and let it please God not be so this time.

00:12:15.360 And while we, you know, hate to have to take the example from your own life, from your husband,

00:12:19.880 let's pray that that example plays out here and that the church will speak when she has to

00:12:25.800 and not remain silent, absolutely scandalous as it was.

00:12:28.340 I do agree with you because, now this is 33 years later, and there's more at stake

00:12:34.960 because the Supreme Court has taken several decisions out of the hands of the American people.

00:12:43.580 For example, the abortion decision, it should never have been decided by the court.

00:12:47.520 That is something for the American people in their state legislatures to decide.

00:12:53.760 And so the problem now is that the left really sees the court as the place to get their political gains,

00:13:01.700 and that is never the way the Supreme Court was intended.

00:13:05.760 And Bob used to say, you know, our republic, if you start to change the shape of the republic,

00:13:14.400 it can't withstand that.

00:13:17.880 So if you make the court into something more political, this is not good for our country.

00:13:23.960 Absolutely.

00:13:25.140 Now, in 1987, then Senator Joe Biden was running for the president in the Democratic primaries,

00:13:32.460 but actually more importantly at the time, he was the chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

00:13:36.600 So what was your impression of Senator Joe Biden at the time?

00:13:40.240 And what do you think that experience with him tells the American people about his character?

00:13:46.440 Well, he said before Bob was nominated that if Bork came up, he would have to support him.

00:13:54.560 And then once Bork was actually nominated, he immediately changed his mind and said he had to vote against him

00:14:00.820 because he was completely under the control of Teddy Kennedy.

00:14:05.240 So I think I was not impressed with his knowledge of constitutional law.

00:14:12.020 Not that I am not a lawyer, but my husband said he really didn't know what he was talking about.

00:14:17.320 And I think he has shown over the years to be somebody who just goes with whatever the popular political truth is out there.

00:14:31.100 And that is not somebody that I think would make a good president.

00:14:35.400 Absolutely.

00:14:36.640 I wonder if you would have any advice for Amy Coney Barrett.

00:14:41.480 Oh, well, we prayed a lot.

00:14:48.240 I remember we used to, during the hearings, we would pray a psalm every morning.

00:14:52.900 And I remember Bob really liked the end of Psalm 3, which is,

00:14:58.720 I will break the teeth of the wicked.

00:15:02.900 And he got a big kick out of that. 0.98

00:15:05.560 But I think she is very well prepared.

00:15:09.960 She knows her own mind.

00:15:11.940 She knows her legal philosophy very well.

00:15:16.460 And I'm sure she's been informed about some of the tactics of the left,

00:15:23.700 if she has some good advisors.

00:15:26.480 And they practice, you know, some of the questions that will be coming up.

00:15:30.420 So I think she seems to me to be a woman of great courage.

00:15:34.580 And just to remain calm and, you know, answer the questions and give her position.

00:15:45.980 And not, of course, she's not supposed to reveal how she would vote on any particular issue.

00:15:51.520 And they will press hard on that because that's what they're interested in.

00:15:55.280 They want to know, does she have an agenda? 0.99

00:15:57.440 And, of course, if you're a Supreme Court justice, you really shouldn't have an agenda.

00:16:03.220 So I think she'll be fine.

00:16:06.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:07.320 And finally, I guess for her family, you experienced this firsthand.

00:16:11.840 She's got a large family.

00:16:13.060 She's got all those kids, her husband. 0.89

00:16:14.380 What would you suggest for them in terms of coping with what's coming up?

00:16:21.060 Well, talking things over, you know, explaining to the children what's happening in a way they can understand.

00:16:29.540 The other thing that I had forgotten, but I remembered when I looked at my husband's book,

00:16:35.020 we had a press watch outside our home for two and a half months.

00:16:39.560 So every time you went out and left your house, there was somebody on a motorcycle or in a car with a camera ready to ask you a question or take pictures.

00:16:49.900 And they'll probably do that again.

00:16:51.540 So you just have to be ready for a difficult period and have the kids screw up their courage and get ready.

00:17:01.600 Amen.

00:17:02.700 Amen.

00:17:03.500 Any parting words for us?

00:17:05.380 Well, I'm delighted that you're thinking about this.

00:17:12.240 And I hope that those of us who believe in the Supreme Court and as a body that should be interpreting the law and not making it up,

00:17:26.800 that we will have somebody who will do just that in Amy Coney Barrett.

00:17:32.520 Amen.

00:17:32.880 Thank you on behalf of the American people for what you suffered.

00:17:36.880 And I pray that your suffering, that of your husband and your family, might serve well here as we all hope and pray for the nomination for the successful appointment of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court.

00:17:50.080 And thank you all for joining us on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

00:17:54.020 May God bless you.

00:17:54.740 Hello, this is John Henry Weston.

00:17:57.060 I'd like to invite you to subscribe to the John Henry Weston Show YouTube channel if you haven't already done so.

00:18:03.260 There you will find all the past episodes and much more.

00:18:06.760 Thanks again for watching and may God bless you.

00:18:09.460 Thanks to God bless you.

00:18:15.240 Bye-bye.

00:18:15.800 Good bye.

00:18:16.960 Thanks again.

00:18:17.760 Bye-bye.

00:18:19.000 Bye-bye.

00:18:19.380 Bye-bye.

00:18:22.160 Bye-bye.

00:18:23.760 Bye-bye.

00:18:25.200 Bye-bye.

00:18:27.740 Bye-bye.

The John-Henry Westen Show - October 13, 2020

Wife of Judge Bork breaks silence： Joe Biden ‘is not somebody that would make a good president'

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