The John-Henry Westen Show - October 29, 2019


World’s leading authority on St. John Henry Newman says Pope Francis is 'causing confusion'

Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Mentioned
John Henry Cardinal Newman Pope Benedict Ian Kerr John Paul II Cardinal Muller Trump Francis Robert Bellamy Jake Sullivan Wilfred Wald Eamon Duffy Jim Hale Melissa Latins Ryan Mary
Young Catholics are asking： Is Pope Francis a bad Pope？ Bishop Schneider praises expelling of 'Pachamama' idol at Amazon Synod

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Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

167.78

Word count

2,168

Sentence count

186

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

What would St. John Henry Cardinal Newman have thought about Pope Francis? Well, in this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, you re going to find out. Father Ian Kerr is the world s leading authority on our new saint. Father Kerr is an Oxford professor who has authored 20 books on Cardinal Newman, including the definitive biography. LifeSite News intrepid producer Jim Hale was blessed to nab Father Kerr for a quick interview in Rome, and Father Kerr was very open indeed about his views on Pope Francis and what Cardinal Newman would have said about the current papacy.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.560 What would St. John Henry Newman have thought about Pope Francis?
00:00:04.460 Well, in this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, you're going to find out.
00:00:08.320 Father Ian Kerr is the world's leading authority on our new saint.
00:00:12.360 Father Kerr is an Oxford professor who has authored 20 books on Newman,
00:00:17.000 including the definitive biography on St. John Henry Cardinal Newman.
00:00:21.960 LifeSite News intrepid producer Jim Hale was blessed to nab Father Kerr for a quick interview in Rome.
00:00:27.900 And Father Kerr was very open indeed about his views on Pope Francis
00:00:33.640 and what Newman would have thought about the current papacy.
00:00:37.160 Stay tuned.
00:00:57.900 I just heard a talk the other day, somebody claiming that certainly Newman's essay on the development of Christian doctrine
00:01:06.040 means that he would be all on board with ordination of women and the end of priestly celibacy
00:01:12.780 and all these things that are kind of being floated around now.
00:01:16.080 What would your response to that be?
00:01:17.840 Well, my response would be that that's nonsense, that Newman says that famous sentence in the essay on development
00:01:25.580 where he says to live is to change.
00:01:27.420 Now, that sentence is always quoted by the liberals, you see, but they don't quote the sentence before,
00:01:32.380 which is to the effect that Christianity changes, yes, in order to remain the same.
00:01:38.780 It's exactly that principle of change and continuity that Pope Benedict spoke of in that famous speech,
00:01:45.520 as opposed to disrupture.
00:01:47.320 Father, what's your advice to those who are really, there's almost a sense of gloom now
00:01:55.940 amongst so many faithful Catholics because they feel like the church is revolutionizing at a pace that's just too fast.
00:02:05.180 What is your message to Catholics who are extremely concerned right now?
00:02:10.700 Well, it's a very strange pontificalist because it's really a throwback to the 1970s
00:02:13.880 after John Paul and Benedict.
00:02:15.720 It's astonishing because the present Pope is really a 1970s Jesuit, in other words, a liberal.
00:02:21.940 And so he has created great doctrinal confusion in the church right from the beginning when he said,
00:02:28.560 who am I to judge?
00:02:29.420 He's asked about homosexuality.
00:02:30.940 Well, he's the Pope.
00:02:31.920 He's there not to judge the people, but the sin.
00:02:34.240 Yes.
00:02:34.560 I mean, and then saying crude, vulgar things like,
00:02:39.000 rabbits don't have to breed like rabbits.
00:02:40.840 Yeah, it's a dreadful thing for a Pope to say.
00:02:43.400 Terrible.
00:02:44.920 And, of course, he's very like President Trump in many ways.
00:02:48.160 He likes sacking people.
00:02:50.100 Yes.
00:02:50.660 He sacked Mueller, and Cardinal Mueller from Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith,
00:02:55.040 and Cardinal Mueller said he'd been treated with the most unchristian discourtesy.
00:02:59.760 It was terrible.
00:03:00.640 The only difference between him and Trump is that Trump's got a beautiful wife, and he hasn't.
00:03:07.100 But you still seem so pleasant and joyful.
00:03:20.060 I mean, where is the church going?
00:03:21.700 What are we to do?
00:03:22.640 Well, it's very grim, but Newman says, you know, it's just always survives these things, and we're just going through what I regard.
00:03:28.100 Of course, the Pope is very popular with the people who don't know what's going on, you know,
00:03:32.640 because of these symbolic gestures he makes, like carrying his suitcase over.
00:03:37.560 But actually, that caused considerable inconvenience, apparently.
00:03:46.020 Well, right, it's like some of the merchants around here are out of business now because he doesn't want to wear the vestments anymore.
00:03:51.520 No, no.
00:03:52.540 Well, the truth is, you look at the seminaries, the seminarians are uniformly orthodox today in every country, in every western country that I know of.
00:04:00.140 Okay, so let's take that, Ryan.
00:04:02.180 Is that cause for hope?
00:04:03.960 Yes.
00:04:04.660 I mean, you see, what I find very, I mean, what's so disturbing is another, when I was at the English college in Rome in the 1970s,
00:04:11.780 which is a very liberal college, you see, typically, and, well, I suppose most seminarians probably thought Paul VI was too conservative,
00:04:18.980 but they would never have spoken disrespectfully about it.
00:04:21.700 Yeah.
00:04:22.060 But the seminarians are here at the English college, North American college, called the Pope Fat Frank.
00:04:26.820 I mean, that's amazing.
00:04:28.100 I mean, nobody would have spoken, however much opposed you were to John Paul II, or Benedict, you would never have spoken disrespectfully about them.
00:04:36.020 Do you sympathize with those who feel that kind of frustration?
00:04:39.280 Yeah, I do.
00:04:40.140 I think it's terrible what's happening.
00:04:42.420 Where do we go from here?
00:04:45.240 Well, we don't, because he went, of course, he's also very vindictive in a way that John Paul and Benedict never were.
00:04:51.440 I mean, take what he's done in America.
00:04:53.000 He's denied the Archbishop of Los Angeles, who's got five million Catholics in his diocese, more than the whole Catholic population of England.
00:05:01.320 He hasn't made him a cardinal because he's Opus Dei.
00:05:04.560 The Archbishop of Philadelphia, who I know, and is a very nice man, he hasn't given him the red hat either, because he's conservative.
00:05:11.440 And he's made these appalling appointments, but he's also, of course, making cardinals in all these, for instance, the Archbishop of Stockholm is a cardinal.
00:05:20.040 Well, he's got about 20,000 Catholics or something.
00:05:23.000 Yes, right.
00:05:24.000 So we really don't know, except I would have thought that the third world countries where he's from, they would tend to be conservative, I would think.
00:05:30.560 But it's very hard to remember, we don't really know what they think, you see.
00:05:33.800 I mean, we know what these American cardinals that he's appointed think, I mean, they're dreadful. 0.99
00:05:38.240 And one of them is clearly a homosexual. 0.99
00:05:41.880 Yes. 0.99
00:05:42.320 Because he tweeted this night-night darling, and he claims it was sent to his sister.
00:05:47.440 It's absolute nonsense.
00:05:48.640 Yes.
00:05:49.140 He had an Italian model staying in his residence.
00:05:51.320 Yes.
00:05:52.320 What was he doing having an Italian model staying there? 1.00
00:05:54.320 And not a woman. 0.88
00:05:55.320 No.
00:05:56.320 No.
00:05:57.320 It was clearly the boyfriend.
00:05:58.320 Yes.
00:05:59.320 Well, father, um...
00:06:02.320 I got, I got two, so I had two sisters.
00:06:05.320 I'd never have called them darling.
00:06:07.320 They thought I was out of my mind.
00:06:09.320 Yes.
00:06:10.320 Well, they think I've been patronizing.
00:06:12.320 Right, right.
00:06:13.320 But, but here you are.
00:06:15.320 How does it feel to be here right now?
00:06:17.320 And if you could just comment on, sort of personally, what this moment means to you,
00:06:22.320 having lived with this man for, for so long?
00:06:26.320 Well, I've done two ways.
00:06:27.320 One, the first way is because it was, um, seeing one of the EWTN programs that I made
00:06:34.320 some years ago about Newman.
00:06:36.320 Um, it got Jack Sullivan in Massachusetts praying to Newman.
00:06:40.320 Because he had that terrible back condition.
00:06:42.320 Yes.
00:06:43.320 And then Melissa, the lady in Chicago, what I said interested her.
00:06:47.320 And, um, so when she felt very gravely ill, she began praying.
00:06:52.320 And they both had, I forgot, they both had the same experiences, you know.
00:06:55.320 They both smelt roses that weren't there.
00:06:58.320 And they both saw a double rainbow.
00:06:59.320 Isn't that strange?
00:07:00.320 I can't see if there's any particular Newmanian significance in that.
00:07:03.320 So there's that.
00:07:04.320 But there's also the fact that this will enable Newman to be, uh, declared a doctor of the
00:07:09.320 church.
00:07:10.320 And I consider that he's the, the doctor par excellence, or he will be, of the post-conciliar
00:07:15.320 church.
00:07:16.320 Just like St. Robert Bellamin is the, is the great doctor, doctor par excellence of the
00:07:21.320 Trudentine church.
00:07:22.320 Why do Catholics today need to know about St. John Cardinal Newman?
00:07:32.320 Why do they need to know?
00:07:34.320 How do you mean?
00:07:35.320 Well, why is it important for, um, all the thousands who are gathered here and the Catholics
00:07:41.320 throughout the world to understand who this man was?
00:07:45.320 Well, because I say he was the, he's the great, uh, in my last book, Newman on Vatican
00:07:49.320 II, I talked about how, how he anticipated the council and how he also provided a very interesting
00:07:55.320 hermeneutic of what happens likely to happen after council.
00:07:58.320 So he could have predicted the confusion that followed Vatican II.
00:08:01.320 Yeah, that wouldn't have surprised him in the least bit.
00:08:03.320 Mm-hmm.
00:08:04.320 So as you're here...
00:08:05.320 And also, there'd be many people converted by his writings.
00:08:07.320 Yeah.
00:08:08.320 So this means something personally to them.
00:08:09.320 Mm-hmm.
00:08:10.320 I mean, I know of an American bishop who's converted by reading Newman.
00:08:13.320 Mm-hmm.
00:08:14.320 So, what is it about Newman that, that stands out in the, in the, the last 200 years of the
00:08:21.320 church?
00:08:22.320 Why is he so important?
00:08:23.320 Well, he wrote the great classic on university education, the idea of university.
00:08:27.320 He wrote what is one of the great theological classics, the essay on the development of Christian
00:08:32.320 doctrine.
00:08:33.320 He wrote what was one of the great classics of the philosophy of religion, his grammar
00:08:38.320 of ascent.
00:08:39.320 And fifthly, his Anglican plain and parochial sermons, which are quite widely read by Catholics,
00:08:45.320 one of the great classics of Christian spirituality.
00:08:48.320 So, how many figures we've got there?
00:08:51.320 Five, I think.
00:08:52.320 Mm-hmm.
00:08:53.320 When you were doing all your...
00:08:54.320 Oh, he's also a great, one of the greatest writers of English prose.
00:08:57.320 Right.
00:08:58.320 Hmm.
00:08:59.320 When you were researching him, what, what did you learn about Newman, perhaps, that surprised
00:09:05.320 you?
00:09:06.320 Surprised me?
00:09:07.320 Well, I don't, well, I don't know that anything particularly surprised me.
00:09:14.320 I mean, in my biography of Newman, I was trying to, um, one of the things, one of my
00:09:18.320 goals was to, um, was to show just how he never lost his sense of humor, even in the
00:09:25.320 darkest hour.
00:09:26.320 Because, unfortunately, his first big biographer, Wilfred Wald, was very good on his theological
00:09:31.320 balance.
00:09:32.320 He was neither liberal nor conservative.
00:09:35.320 But, um, but he, he painted this picture of, of a gloomy, hypersensitive Newman, which
00:09:40.320 is completely false.
00:09:41.320 Certainly Newman was very sensitive, yes.
00:09:43.320 And there were no doubt times when he was hypersensitive.
00:09:46.320 Because he was a sinner, like, you know, saints are still sinners. 1.00
00:09:50.320 Mm-hmm.
00:09:51.320 I think, from what I've read, a lot of people don't really understand the significance of
00:09:57.320 Newman's conversion and what it meant at the time.
00:10:00.320 Could you just talk a little bit about that?
00:10:03.320 Well, it was, of course, also an incredible thing to do in those days in this country.
00:10:07.320 Remember, England was heavily Protestant.
00:10:10.320 There were very, very few Catholics until the Irish immigration began, of course, in
00:10:15.320 the 1840s.
00:10:16.320 Uh, there were just these recusants. 1.00
00:10:18.320 Catholics who'd hung on to the faith, mainly up in Lancashire, in the north of England.
00:10:22.320 Um, well, first of all, it was considered to be an intellectual impossibility.
00:10:28.320 The typical Englishman would say, you can't possibly believe all those doctrines of Catholicism.
00:10:33.320 Secondly, um, there was a very racist attitude towards Catholicism, because in those days,
00:10:41.320 the English, the English intellectuals thought that, um, the, the, um, what you call it, the,
00:10:48.320 um, I can't think what the word is now.
00:10:51.320 Um, the, the Anglo-Saxon.
00:10:53.320 Yeah.
00:10:54.320 The Anglo-Saxon countries were the top countries.
00:10:57.320 That's to say, Britain and Germany. 0.76
00:10:59.320 And especially Germany, they thought Germany was the most cultured, civilized country in
00:11:03.320 the world.
00:11:04.320 Of course, they got a horrible shock when the first, well, they were dead by then.
00:11:06.320 But, of course, the First World War dispelled that with the German atrocities.
00:11:10.320 And, of course, even more so, the Second, the Second World War.
00:11:14.320 Um, so, so, they, they thought the Celts and Latins were racially inferior.
00:11:20.320 The reason why they were inferior was because they were under the yoke of the Catholic priesthood, 0.96
00:11:24.320 which is why they were so backwards, you see. 0.95
00:11:26.320 Hmm.
00:11:27.320 And then, thirdly, of course, the whole, the, just like the, um, the Soviet Union was built
00:11:32.780 upon this myth that there'd been a great uprising of the people, which is completely untrue,
00:11:37.320 of course.
00:11:38.320 It was a coup d'etat.
00:11:39.320 Yeah.
00:11:40.320 Similarly, in this country, the, um, the general, the assumption was that people in this country
00:11:47.320 had risen up to throughout the church, which, of course, was complete nonsense.
00:11:51.320 It was the King Henry VIII who wanted a divorce.
00:11:53.320 Yes.
00:11:54.320 It was, it was a coup d'etat.
00:11:56.320 And he built up support for himself, of course, by confiscating the monastery lands,
00:12:00.320 and giving them to the, um, giving the barons money.
00:12:03.320 Hmm.
00:12:04.320 Um.
00:12:05.320 But, of course, it wasn't really until it, Eamon Duffy in his book, The Stripping of the Altars,
00:12:09.320 finally brought this out.
00:12:10.320 That, in fact, this was, I think, was the most Catholic country in Europe at the time.
00:12:13.320 Hmm.
00:12:14.320 It was a great devotion to Mary.
00:12:15.320 Yes, yes.
00:12:16.320 And, um, um, to show that the ordinary people, you know, that it was very unpopular, the Reformation.
00:12:22.320 Of course, there were uprisings against it.
00:12:25.320 Hmm.
00:12:26.320 Father, why do Catholics need to read Newman today, in this time that we're in now, 0.98
00:12:32.320 which certainly seems to be like a time of considerable confusion?
00:12:36.320 Well, it's because his writings convert people, and his writings also, hopefully,
00:12:41.320 correct the errors of some of our people who get things wrong.
00:12:45.320 I think they are one of the things that we know that we make these things wrong.