The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 12 Rules Kitchener： Hierarchy and Fair Play

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:12.740 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

00:00:20.100 With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.

00:00:27.420 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.

00:00:35.360 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.

00:00:41.800 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.

00:00:47.460 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.

00:00:57.420 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 13 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.

00:01:05.740 I'm Mikayla Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.

00:01:08.980 Today, we're presenting his lecture at the Centre in the Square in Kitchener, Ontario, recorded on July 21st, 2018.

00:01:16.500 It's one of his 12 Rules for Life lectures.

00:01:18.820 If you haven't signed up to be a beta tester for ThinkSpot, the intellectual platform Dad's backing, head over to ThinkSpot.com and sign up.

00:01:27.700 I talked about it a bit last week, and Rogan and Dad also discussed it in their episode.

00:01:32.880 But if you're new here, it's a platform that won't limit speech unless it breaks a U.S. law.

00:01:38.080 That seems like a reasonable way to limit speech, rather than just using random and generally neurotic crowd mentality.

00:01:43.980 You can form reading groups and podcast groups, and much more.

00:01:48.320 It should be a great platform to have real intellectual conversations and maybe learn something.

00:01:52.780 Dad's content will be put up there with new announcements.

00:01:55.760 A number of people from the Intellectual Dark Web are already involved, and more people will be joining in August, once all the kinks are worked out.

00:02:03.100 Mom's still recovering. Not only did she have major health trouble, but then she had a 1 in 20,000 surgical complication.

00:02:09.940 Really? Really.

00:02:11.160 She's still recovering from that, and it's been really tough, but things seem to be looking up again.

00:02:16.320 Thank goodness.

00:02:17.520 When we return, Dad's lecture at the Centre in the Square in Kitchener, Ontario.

00:02:27.880 Please welcome my father, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson.

00:02:30.400 A fine bunch of Wilfrid Laurier supporters. You turn out to be.

00:02:43.500 Just out of curiosity, how many people that are here are Wilfrid Laurier students?

00:02:51.140 Oh yeah, well...

00:02:52.400 It's very brave of you to come, let's say that.

00:03:06.820 So, I'm going to walk through my whole book tonight.

00:03:12.080 Well, not every word of it, obviously, but I'm going to...

00:03:14.400 I use these lectures to further my ideas, and I often concentrate on a single rule or two to flesh them out.

00:03:26.160 But I think I'm going to try to run through the whole list of them today and make that a coherent story, see if I can manage that.

00:03:36.200 But I think I've only got through all 12 rules one time in like 55 lectures, so we'll see if we can do it tonight.

00:03:44.440 So, let's start with rule number one, which is, I suspect, the one that's been most misunderstood purposefully or otherwise by the journalists that I've talked to.

00:03:57.640 It's stand up straight with your shoulders back.

00:03:59.920 And it's a meditation, I guess, on the relationship between existential philosophy, that might be one way of looking at it, and physical posture.

00:04:14.580 Here's one way of conceptualizing the world.

00:04:19.180 If you're a clinical psychologist, one thing that you might note is that people's fears fall into two broad categories.

00:04:26.980 There's a fear of nature, of biology.

00:04:31.780 So, for example, if someone has agoraphobia, which is often considered or defined as the fear of everything, it's a strange condition.

00:04:45.600 The fundamental...

00:04:46.800 So, people who are agoraphobic, what happens to them usually is they develop a condition known as panic attacks.

00:04:53.760 They develop panic attacks.

00:04:54.880 There's actually a circuit for anxiety.

00:04:58.180 You have a brain circuit, let's say, for anxiety, but you also have a brain circuit for panic.

00:05:06.400 And panic seems to be something you experience.

00:05:08.880 It's probably what you experience if you're in the grip of a predator.

00:05:12.460 It's a get-the-hell-away-from-there circuit, whereas anxiety is a circuit that freezes you.

00:05:18.500 And anxiety can transform itself into panic.

00:05:20.680 And if you panic, you experience a very dramatic increase in psychophysiological activity.

00:05:30.120 So, your heart rate will go way up.

00:05:31.480 And part of the reason for that is that, well, your heart rate goes up when you get emotional.

00:05:35.840 Because if you get emotional, especially if it's associated with negative emotions that are linked to escape,

00:05:42.160 your heart rate goes up because you need to pump more oxygen to your muscles.

00:05:47.260 And, of course, that's what your heart does.

00:05:48.860 So, that's why your heart accelerates when you're excited or terrified.

00:05:53.660 And what happens to people with agoraphobia is they have a, they'll go out.

00:05:58.280 And for one reason or another, they'll have an attack of panic.

00:06:02.560 And then their heart rate will go way up.

00:06:05.500 Or they'll get anxious and their heart rate will go way up.

00:06:08.140 And then they start thinking that they might die because they can feel their heart pounding away.

00:06:12.600 They think maybe they're going to have a heart attack.

00:06:14.100 And, of course, having a heart attack isn't the sort of thought that you want to have when you're already really anxious.

00:06:19.240 And so, then, to add to their anxiety, they add the terror of potentially dying right there and then.

00:06:25.680 And that's part of the category of biological fears.

00:06:30.840 With people with panic attacks, that's often triggered because they've experienced a very negative event recently,

00:06:40.440 like a divorce or a death in the family or maybe a heart attack amongst their group of friends.

00:06:45.820 You know, so the thought of mortality comes flooding back or maybe, or maybe appears really for the first time.

00:06:52.800 And then that manifests itself in this proclivity to panic.

00:06:56.100 And then as the agoraphobia develops, if you have panic attacks, that's not enough to give you agoraphobia.

00:07:01.920 You have to have panic attacks and then start to avoid the places that you have the panic attacks.

00:07:06.900 And then what tends to happen is, as you avoid and pull back, you have panic attacks more and more places and then you end up not going anywhere at all.

00:07:15.300 And you'd even run away from your house if you could, but you can't run away from everywhere.

00:07:19.660 So, you end up somewhere and that's usually in your house.

00:07:22.680 And so, one of the categories of fears is terrible things that might happen to you biologically.

00:07:29.560 And it's perfectly understandable why people would be afraid of such things, because there are terrible things that can happen to you biologically.

00:07:36.980 And so, symbolically speaking, that's associated with fear of the great mother.

00:07:42.620 That's a fear of nature.

00:07:43.960 That's another way of thinking about it, a fear of chaos.

00:07:46.160 The other thing that agoraphobic people think about, because they're usually unfortunate enough to be simultaneously afraid of the two great categories of fear.

00:07:59.400 So, the other thing that people really don't like is social exclusion or social condemnation.

00:08:04.440 And you can certainly see that play out on places like Twitter.

00:08:06.880 You know, if you say something that you shouldn't say on Twitter, which is pretty much what Twitter is for, by the way, then there's a good possibility and seems like an increasing possibility that you'll attract a tremendous amount of negative attention.

00:08:20.100 People really can't tolerate that.

00:08:22.080 That's actually kind of a good thing in some sense, because, you know, one of the things that keeps us in line, because we're kind of crazy, one of the things that keeps us in line is that we do pay attention to what other people think and we try to govern our behavior accordingly.

00:08:35.840 And most of the time, that's a good thing, but some of the time, it's a really bad thing.

00:08:39.800 And so, you can also be afraid of social alienation.

00:08:43.660 So, it's death, insanity, illness on the one side of the equation.

00:08:47.900 That would be fear of nature, and then fear of social alienation would be on the other side, and the loneliness and isolation that might occur, the shame as well that might occur if you were socially alienated.

00:08:58.760 People with agoraphobia actually suffer from both categories of fear simultaneously, because if you take apart an agoraphobic sphere,

00:09:05.840 the person will usually say that, for example, they're very afraid of dying in a heart attack, dying of a heart attack, somewhere in public, and making a terrible fool of themselves while they do it.

00:09:18.100 And so, there's both that terror of public exposure and also the terror of death and illness.

00:09:26.300 And those are the two great categories of fears.

00:09:29.100 And it's not surprising, you know, because we do face genuine terrors on the biological front,

00:09:36.240 and there's nothing the least bit pleasant about social alienation and exclusion.

00:09:42.380 And as a therapist, one of the things, and as a research scientist as well,

00:09:47.000 one of the things that struck me was, I was never really struck by the mystery of fear, you know,

00:09:55.860 because one of the things psychologists often try to figure out is why people are anxious.

00:09:59.520 And to me, that was just never a mystery.

00:10:02.100 It's like, what I couldn't figure out is why people weren't terrified out of their skulls about everything all the time.

00:10:07.580 So, it was security, the sense of felt security, and the ability for people to be calm ever that struck me as the mystery.

00:10:16.120 You know, because my anxious clients would come to me and tell me why they were so terribly anxious.

00:10:20.580 And it's like, well, you might die of a heart attack.

00:10:22.680 It's certainly the case, especially if you have a family history of heart disease,

00:10:26.600 and lots of people who have agoraphobia do have a family of history of heart disease.

00:10:31.860 That's partly why they're terrified of dying of a heart attack.

00:10:34.560 It's like, well, how can you live under those conditions if you're always concerned that, you know,

00:10:38.880 maybe you had a parent who died when he or she was 45 or 50, and you're approaching 45 or 50.

00:10:44.900 It's like, why wouldn't that be in your mind all the time?

00:10:48.160 Well, for some people it is.

00:10:49.500 And, you know, the fact that we're not all constantly obsessed with death and the possibility of being alone

00:10:55.620 is quite a bloody mystery, as far as I'm concerned.

00:10:58.260 And I think that's actually the right way of looking at things.

00:11:01.080 I don't think that anxiety is a mystery.

00:11:03.560 I think that calm, calm, I think that the miracle is that we're ever calm and secure.

00:11:10.840 And the conditions under which we're calm and secure are very, very fragile.

00:11:14.400 You know, collective peace, like the peace that obtains in a gathering like this,

00:11:19.200 which is quite a remarkable thing, given that we're all here to discuss, you know, relatively serious issues.

00:11:24.040 That's a real miracle that that can occur.

00:11:28.100 So in chapter one, well, I'm considering such things.

00:11:31.940 It's like, well, in a world that's characterized by twin abysses,

00:11:37.820 the catastrophe of social alienation and fragility and mortality,

00:11:43.240 catastrophe of social isolation on one hand and fragility on the other hand,

00:11:47.780 how is it that we should conduct ourselves?

00:11:50.960 That's the real question.

00:11:53.600 And, well, there's various answers to that.

00:11:57.720 Now, interleaved in chapter one is also a discussion of hierarchies.

00:12:03.300 So I'm interested in the social world.

00:12:05.620 And the social world is essentially a hierarchical world.

00:12:08.540 And one of the fundamental elements of the world that you have to adapt to is the social world.

00:12:15.280 One of the things I've tried to lay out in my writings and in my thinking is,

00:12:19.700 what are the most permanent elements of experience?

00:12:22.300 Like, if you had to categorize human experience,

00:12:25.280 and then you had to find out what the fundamental categories were,

00:12:29.160 what exactly would they look like?

00:12:30.920 You know, and when we think materialistically,

00:12:34.800 we think of the fundamental categories of reality being material categories,

00:12:38.840 like, well, atoms are fundamental.

00:12:40.920 But it's not like you experience atoms.

00:12:43.300 You do at a great distance.

00:12:45.100 We didn't even know there were such things until,

00:12:47.140 well, maybe Democritus back in ancient Greece.

00:12:49.980 But he didn't know.

00:12:50.940 He just guessed.

00:12:51.720 We didn't know there were atoms until, what, 120, 150 years ago, something like that.

00:12:56.700 So it's not like that's what you directly experience.

00:12:59.660 What do you directly experience?

00:13:02.820 Well, you certainly experience the social world.

00:13:05.040 Like, every single human being experiences the reality of other people, right?

00:13:10.460 The reality of the social.

00:13:12.020 And we certainly experience the reality of the natural world.

00:13:15.100 And so those are the two big categories,

00:13:17.180 the social world and the natural world.

00:13:19.040 And then the other reality that we all experience is the reality of ourselves.

00:13:23.620 So there's the natural world and the social world,

00:13:26.200 and there's the individual who's contending with those two things all the time.

00:13:31.000 And then I further subdivided those into the positive social and the negative social,

00:13:35.260 and the positive natural and the negative natural.

00:13:38.060 That seems about right.

00:13:39.320 And you see that popping up conceptually in all sorts of places.

00:13:42.400 So, for example, when you hear the radical, politically correct types talk about the social world,

00:13:50.700 for example, all they talk about is the negative social world.

00:13:53.260 That's the terrible, tyrannical patriarchy.

00:13:56.480 And the thing is, there's an element of that that's true.

00:13:59.120 Because, of course, every social structure is somewhat arbitrary and even tyrannical in its nature.

00:14:06.620 Because, you know, you have to behave like everyone else wants you to behave.

00:14:10.720 And so do each of us.

00:14:11.620 And so we're all subject, as we grow up, to the restricting and constricting force of socialization.

00:14:18.980 And that can be quite brutal.

00:14:20.840 You know, people in high school and junior high, it's the theme of many a movie,

00:14:24.560 are bullied into shape or out of shape, depending on how you look at it.

00:14:28.740 And every single one of us has sacrificed a fair bit of our potential in order to conform to our society's norms.

00:14:38.340 And so we're all subject to that tyrannical element of social pressure.

00:14:42.540 And you feel that internally, too, because you're guilty or ashamed because of your inadequacy in relationship to social norms.

00:14:50.100 And so you're stuck with that.

00:14:51.300 But, you know, it's only half the story.

00:14:53.660 Because, of course, you're the beneficiary of social pressure as well.

00:14:58.120 I mean, you couldn't speak without social pressure.

00:15:02.520 It is not like you invented the words that you use, right?

00:15:06.220 That's part of collective knowledge.

00:15:08.280 And the fact that you're capable of playing games with other people and cooperating and competing with them in a relatively civilized manner.

00:15:15.120 And that you've been socialized and basically that you were fed when you were a child and that you were taken care of is all part of the positive aspect of being immersed in the social world.

00:15:24.920 And if you have any sense, then you have some gratitude for that as well, which is part of the reason I'm not very happy about the politically correct types.

00:15:33.080 Because I see that they have a lot of irritation about the tyrannical element of the social structure and damn little gratitude.

00:15:40.140 And that's an unbalanced attitude.

00:15:41.960 There's no reason for you not to be able to see both things and to be wary of the tyrant, but also to be grateful for the benevolent great father, let's say.

00:15:53.620 And I think that's an appropriate way to orient yourself in the world.

00:15:57.880 Now, obviously, things can get out of hand from time to time.

00:16:00.540 And the social world can turn into something that's virtually nothing but a tyranny.

00:16:05.880 You know, we've seen that lots of times.

00:16:07.420 It happened in Nazi Germany and it happened certainly multiple times on the radical left end of the spectrum under Stalin and under Mao and under Pol Pot and et cetera, et cetera.

00:16:17.860 And so it's definitely the case that our social structures can turn into something that's completely indistinguishable from power, deceit and outright tyranny.

00:16:30.040 But to think about our social structures in the relatively free world and increasingly everywhere in the world as somehow tantamount to nothing but a tyrannical patriarchy is absolutely preposterous.

00:16:46.900 So, now, you have the natural world and it's got a positive element and negative element and you've got the social world and it's got a positive element and a negative element.

00:16:58.280 These things are often personified, by the way, in fiction and in mythological representations.

00:17:04.620 And it's a really useful thing to know if you go see a movie or if you go see a, or if you read a novel, especially a fantasy novel, you'll see the personifications of these permanent elements of experience all the time.

00:17:20.240 Let's see.

00:17:21.680 And you also have a negative, a positive and a negative individual.

00:17:25.120 And so, for example, in Harry Potter you have, what's his name, Voldemort.

00:17:29.740 He's the representation of the negative element of the social world, partly also the negative element of the individual.

00:17:37.620 If you watch Sleeping Beauty, the Disney movie, you see the negative element of the natural world personified as the evil queen, Maleficent.

00:17:47.780 You see that in Little Mermaid with, I can't remember her name, Ursula, right?

00:17:52.760 The tentacled sea witch who lives at the bottom of the ocean.

00:17:55.780 And these personifications of these fundamental categories appear all the time.

00:18:01.920 And so, and they do that because the reason they appear in that manner is because we have to contend with the fundamental constituent elements of reality in order to make our way in the world.

00:18:13.620 So how do you make your way in the world?

00:18:15.160 Well, there's you, the good you and the bad you, and you have to contend with both of those.

00:18:19.600 And then there's the good element of society and the bad element of society, and you have to contend with both of those.

00:18:25.000 And there's the good element of nature, which bestowed life on you, and the terrible aspect of nature, which will definitely kill you.

00:18:32.160 And you have to contend with both of those.

00:18:34.380 And that's the permanent state of reality for human beings.

00:18:39.000 And so those are the existential realities, as far as I can tell.

00:18:42.380 And so then the question is, how best to contend with them?

00:18:45.340 And that's what I was trying to address, really, in 12 Rules for Life, in the entire book, and in my first book, Maps of Meaning, as well,

00:18:52.860 because I was trying to outline how it is you should conduct yourself in a world that has those fundamental realities.

00:19:01.100 And that's why rule one is to stand up straight with your shoulders back.

00:19:06.240 And I talked a fair bit about hierarchies in that chapter.

00:19:11.820 Now, part of the nature of the social world is hierarchical structure.

00:19:17.780 And it's really interesting to think about hierarchical structures, as far as I'm concerned,

00:19:22.400 because they're sort of intrinsically fascinating.

00:19:27.520 Partly because they're probably intrinsically fascinating, partly because of their complexity,

00:19:32.080 but also because of their permanence, because we have to deal with them.

00:19:35.380 Any account of them or any personification of them immediately grips our interest,

00:19:40.120 because we're so curious about how it is that people should move and maneuver in hierarchies.

00:19:46.040 And it's a really deep curiosity.

00:19:47.920 So here's a funny story.

00:19:49.760 So, you know, human beings like celebrities, you know, and we'll buy magazines about celebrities.

00:19:55.220 And celebrities often grace the covers of magazines, even ones that have very little to do with celebrities,

00:20:00.120 because celebrities attract their attention.

00:20:02.340 Now, celebrities are people who've managed to clamber up a hierarchy and who are sitting near the pinnacle.

00:20:08.380 Sort of why we call them stars, let's say.

00:20:10.940 And there's something attractive about people who are near or at the top of a hierarchy.

00:20:17.100 And often because attractive people get there, but also because people who are there are attractive.

00:20:22.640 If you take a monkey troop and you take photographs of all the monkeys and you show the monkeys the photographs,

00:20:31.000 they will look longer at the monkeys that are higher in the monkey hierarchy, just like we do with human beings.

00:20:38.320 That's how deep our relationship is with hierarchies.

00:20:41.460 You know, because we devolved, we diverged from monkeys probably 25 million years ago.

00:20:47.640 That's a long, chimps about 7 million years ago, but monkeys about 20 million years ago.

00:20:52.020 That's a long time.

00:20:53.480 And despite that divergence, we have similar reactions to celebrity in photographs.

00:20:58.940 So that's a good indication of just how deep our relationship with hierarchy goes.

00:21:04.820 And it's also actually quite interesting that we would be attracted to people who occupy more prominent positions in hierarchies,

00:21:13.560 because the other thing that that implies is that we're naturally interested in those who've been successful,

00:21:21.680 because one of the hallmarks of success is that you move up a hierarchy.

00:21:25.520 It's almost identical with success, although along with that often goes wealth too,

00:21:31.680 and to some degree that protects you from the catastrophes of the natural world.

00:21:34.880 The fact that we're attracted to people who are near or at the top of hierarchies

00:21:39.960 means that we're naturally attracted to those things that make for success.

00:21:43.560 And it's part of our proclivity to imitate, right?

00:21:46.560 Because, hypothetically, you know, everyone, human beings have a very powerful proclivity to imitate.

00:21:52.440 Language is an imitative function.

00:21:54.500 I mean, because we all use the same words, so we're imitating each other talking.

00:21:58.140 And, you know, we have heroes too.

00:22:00.580 If you're a sports fan, you have a sports hero.

00:22:02.420 If you like movies, then there's movie stars you admire.

00:22:05.360 If you like fiction or even non-fiction, there's writers that you admire.

00:22:09.200 If you don't like any of that, perhaps you have a job and there's somebody there who does a stellar job and you admire them.

00:22:14.780 And that capacity for admiration is actually a proclivity to imitate, right?

00:22:20.220 Because you're gripped by that person and you would like to be like them.

00:22:23.580 That's what admiration means.

00:22:25.380 And that's a very useful instinct because, well, because it's the instinct to admire what constitutes success.

00:22:31.980 And one of the things that I've thought about very deeply is partly where our impulse for religious awe comes from.

00:22:40.120 And one of the things that I've concluded, more or less, is that, so imagine that, you know, our social structure is a hierarchy.

00:22:49.620 But we could make it more sophisticated than that because our social structure isn't a hierarchy.

00:22:54.920 It's a whole lot of hierarchies.

00:22:56.980 And they're probably all arranged into something like a meta-hierarchy.

00:23:02.200 But there are many, many, many hierarchies.

00:23:04.960 And if you stretch the idea of hierarchy across time, there's been all sorts of different hierarchies across time.

00:23:11.180 But you might think that there's something in common across all those hierarchies that makes them hierarchies and unites the people who've been successful.

00:23:21.940 So if you're successful in hierarchy A, there's something about you that's sort of like someone who's been successful in hierarchy B, C, and D.

00:23:30.460 And human beings are very good at generalizing, right?

00:23:32.880 So we'll look at an example.

00:23:35.460 We can extract examples out from across multiple instances.

00:23:40.120 So I'll give you an example of that.

00:23:41.800 So when a kid, when you're a little kid, you've seen little kids do this all the time.

00:23:45.700 Maybe they play house, right?

00:23:46.880 And if you're going to play house, well, you usually have a mother who you play mom and you play dad.

00:23:51.740 Maybe you play child and maybe you play pet.

00:23:55.020 You know, you play out the roles.

00:23:58.460 And you might think that what the child is doing when he or she plays out a role is imitating their parent, right?

00:24:06.480 So you're going to play dad when you play house.

00:24:09.080 But you don't really imitate your dad.

00:24:10.660 Because, you know, if you're imitating somebody, like if I was going to imitate you, I'd just put my body in exactly the same position that your body is.

00:24:18.240 That's an imitation.

00:24:19.520 But that isn't what you do when you're playing.

00:24:21.360 If you play house and you have the role of dad, what you actually do as a child is you've watched your dad manifest himself in a whole bunch of different situations, right?

00:24:30.480 Multiple situations.

00:24:31.520 And there's something about, there's something in common across all those situations that makes him dad rather than someone else.

00:24:39.940 And that commonality is actually what you have a relationship with, right?

00:24:43.320 Because you have a different relationship with your father than with anyone else.

00:24:46.840 And what you have a relationship with is the fatherness of your father.

00:24:51.280 And that's whatever is in common across all the times he manifests himself as father.

00:24:56.380 And that's what you imitate when you're a child, right?

00:24:59.680 Because what you're trying to do when you play house is to embody what it means to be a father.

00:25:04.620 And that means you have to abstract that out from all those instances and then copy that.

00:25:09.940 It's so sophisticated.

00:25:12.220 Kids are so sophisticated when they engage in pretend play that it's just absolutely beyond belief.

00:25:17.200 Because they actually manage that, right?

00:25:20.020 And then that's partly how they come to incorporate the idea of father and how they learn to be fathers themselves.

00:25:26.000 And the same thing obviously plays out with little girls imitating their mothers.

00:25:31.260 Or little boys imitating their mothers to that degree.

00:25:34.200 Because they do that from time to time too.

00:25:36.140 Because they also have to learn how to understand and embody the maternal role.

00:25:40.960 So my point is we can abstract out commonalities across multiple instances.

00:25:46.720 And we do that with hierarchies.

00:25:48.420 And you think about how smart we are in doing this.

00:25:52.520 It's like, well, we know that there are hierarchies.

00:25:54.900 And we know that in order to succeed in life, you have to climb the hierarchy.

00:25:57.940 But there's lots of different kinds of hierarchies.

00:26:00.320 And what that means is that since you don't know what hierarchy you're going to end up in,

00:26:04.700 you don't necessarily want to imitate how someone within a particular hierarchy acts.

00:26:10.560 You want to imitate that pattern of behavior they manifest within that hierarchy that makes them successful.

00:26:16.160 So, you know, when you see this with sports heroes, let's say.

00:26:21.460 When you admire a sports hero, that doesn't mean you carry around a baseball bat, right?

00:26:27.100 You don't imitate directly in that manner.

00:26:29.820 Maybe you admire their character.

00:26:31.880 You admire the way they conduct themselves on the field.

00:26:34.380 You admire the way they play the game.

00:26:35.700 Wayne Gretzky was a good example of that in hockey, I would say, right?

00:26:38.860 Because he was a very, obviously, an absolutely brilliant player.

00:26:42.120 But he was also a player who was clearly a good sport in the broadest sense of the word, right?

00:26:48.160 He was good at helping develop his teammates and all of that.

00:26:52.680 And he wasn't an egotistical person.

00:26:55.900 And he didn't seem to have any negative personal characteristics.

00:26:59.420 He was a good all-around person.

00:27:00.720 And he was excellent.

00:27:01.560 He was spectacular at what he did.

00:27:03.900 And so he's an admirable person.

00:27:05.320 And so as a sports figure and as a stellar sports figure, what made him a cultural hero was his character rather than his specific prowess at hockey, right?

00:27:17.480 And that's a good example of how we can extract out what's admirable, the sets of features that make someone admirable within a given hierarchy.

00:27:26.600 And then you could imagine that you could see that across the whole set of hierarchies.

00:27:31.000 And so you'd come to mimic what it is that's most likely to make you successful, no matter where it is that you're placed in any hierarchy and no matter when.

00:27:41.380 And the question might be, well, what would that be?

00:27:44.880 And this is another reason why I'm not very happy with the social justice warrior, radical, politically correct types.

00:27:52.900 Because their hypothesis is something like the hierarchy, so that's the patriarchy, is corrupt and predicated on nothing but power and domination.

00:28:03.820 And so the secondary implication of that is that if you're going to be successful in a hierarchy like that, that means you have to be power-seeking tyrant.

00:28:12.660 And it isn't actually the case that in functional hierarchies, power-seeking tyrant is the best strategy.

00:28:21.540 In fact, all the evidence suggests that that's simply not true.

00:28:26.320 It's not only, it's really deeply not true.

00:28:28.840 This is the thing that's so cool about it.

00:28:30.380 I mean, first of all, we could also point out that one of the presuppositions of the radical left critique of the modern West is that hierarchies are a consequence of Western civilization and, let's say, capitalism.

00:28:48.160 And that's complete bloody rubbish.

00:28:50.200 That isn't true even a bit.

00:28:51.520 And the reason that we know it's not true is because it isn't only human beings.

00:28:56.900 First of all, human beings have organized themselves into hierarchies for hundreds of thousands or millions of years.

00:29:06.580 And that's way before there was Western civilization or there was capitalism.

00:29:14.160 So, to lay hierarchy at the feet of Western civilization or capitalism is preposterous.

00:29:22.640 It's even worse than that because there were hierarchies way before there were human beings.

00:29:28.200 And so, it's not only that human hierarchies aren't a consequence of anything that's particular to the West,

00:29:35.440 but hierarchies themselves aren't even particular to people.

00:29:40.300 And so, and one of the reasons this actually concerns me is for what you might regard as a left-wing reason.

00:29:47.420 Let's say that one of the reasons that you're concerned about hierarchies is that you're concerned that they oppress and dispossess people,

00:29:53.660 which they certainly do, and we'll get to that.

00:29:56.040 Because once, you know, you make a hierarchy, what happens is a few people at the top do most of the productive work that the hierarchy produces.

00:30:04.600 That's the first thing.

00:30:06.000 And maybe that's not so bad.

00:30:07.940 But the other thing that happens is that if a hierarchy does produce something, like money,

00:30:12.640 almost all the money goes to the top people in the hierarchy.

00:30:16.140 And it's true, not just of money.

00:30:17.680 Like, if you look at sports figures, for example, if you look at the,

00:30:21.120 it's a very small percentage of people who manage to make most of the...

00:30:27.940 Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight.

00:30:33.680 Most of the time, you'll probably be fine.

00:30:35.960 But what if one day that weird yellow mask drops down from overhead and you have no idea what to do?

00:30:41.660 In our hyper-connected world, your digital privacy isn't just a luxury.

00:30:45.420 It's a fundamental right.

00:30:46.620 Every time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe, hotel, or airport,

00:30:51.040 you're essentially broadcasting your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept it.

00:30:56.100 And let's be clear, it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this.

00:30:59.300 With some off-the-shelf hardware, even a tech-savvy teenager could potentially access your passwords, bank logins, and credit card details.

00:31:06.660 Now, you might think, what's the big deal?

00:31:08.780 Who'd want my data anyway?

00:31:10.040 Well, on the dark web, your personal information could fetch up to $1,000.

00:31:14.960 That's right, there's a whole underground economy built on stolen identities.

00:31:19.020 Enter ExpressVPN.

00:31:20.780 It's like a digital fortress, creating an encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet.

00:31:25.460 Their encryption is so robust that it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to crack it.

00:31:31.060 But don't let its power fool you.

00:31:32.920 ExpressVPN is incredibly user-friendly.

00:31:35.240 With just one click, you're protected across all your devices.

00:31:37.960 Phones, laptops, tablets, you name it.

00:31:40.480 That's why I use ExpressVPN whenever I'm traveling or working from a coffee shop.

00:31:44.620 It gives me peace of mind knowing that my research, communications, and personal data are shielded from prying eyes.

00:31:50.600 Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash jordan.

00:31:55.340 That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash jordan, and you can get an extra three months free.

00:32:01.720 ExpressVPN dot com slash jordan.

00:32:03.600 Starting a business can be tough, but thanks to Shopify, running your online storefront is easier than ever.

00:32:13.420 Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.

00:32:17.700 From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage, Shopify is here to help you grow.

00:32:24.280 Our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise, and we love how easy it is to add more items, ship products, and track conversions.

00:32:32.760 With Shopify, customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful tools, alongside an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing, accounting, and chatbots.

00:32:44.220 Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout, up to 36% better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms.

00:32:52.060 No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level.

00:32:59.060 Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp, all lowercase.

00:33:05.020 Go to shopify.com slash jbp now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in.

00:33:10.380 That's shopify.com slash jbp.

00:33:12.740 Shots in basketball.

00:33:17.340 And it's a very small percentage of hockey players who score most of the goals.

00:33:20.740 And it's a very small percentage of music composers who compose all the music that all the orchestras play.

00:33:25.660 And it's a very tiny proportion of rock musicians who play the rock songs that everybody listens to.

00:33:30.460 And it's a tiny proportion of people who write books who write the books that everyone reads.

00:33:34.420 It's like, it doesn't matter where, it's a very tiny proportion of cities that have all the people.

00:33:39.100 It's a very tiny proportion of stars that have all the mass.

00:33:43.180 Like there's a rule at work here that I outlined in 12 Rules for Life called Price's Law.

00:33:48.120 It was discovered much earlier than that by an economist named Vilfred Pareto.

00:33:52.740 That basically showed that if you make a hierarchical structure, almost all of the spoils of the structure,

00:33:58.580 but almost all also of the productive labor is performed by a very small minority of the people.

00:34:03.760 And you see that, you see that very clearly in what people commonly complain about,

00:34:08.420 which is the unbelievably skewed distribution of money, right?

00:34:13.120 So I think the richest 13 people in the world have more money than the bottom 3 billion, something like that.

00:34:18.580 It's unbelievably skewed.

00:34:20.280 But it's like that for every hierarchy, no matter what it produces.

00:34:24.700 And so it's in the nature of hierarchies to do that.

00:34:27.020 And one of the consequences of that is that hierarchies dispossess people because people stack up at the bottom.

00:34:32.520 And that's actually a problem because, well, you know it's a problem because you walk down the street,

00:34:36.320 maybe it's an urban street, and there are homeless people there, and alcoholic people,

00:34:40.060 and people who are drug addicted, and they've fallen out of the bottom of the world.

00:34:43.820 And it's not good for anyone, right?

00:34:45.560 You don't like to see it.

00:34:46.600 They certainly don't like to experience it.

00:34:48.860 You don't like to see it.

00:34:49.820 You're not happy about abject poverty.

00:34:52.940 But it's one of the consequences of arranging things in a hierarchy.

00:34:55.940 That doesn't mean you can dispense with hierarchies.

00:34:58.600 It doesn't mean that at all.

00:35:00.440 And so one of the reasons that the shallow critique of hierarchies that comes from the radical left disturbs me

00:35:06.840 is because it doesn't get to the heart of the problem.

00:35:10.120 It makes the problem much easier than it really is.

00:35:12.760 Like if it was actually the case that hierarchies are merely a function of capitalism or the West,

00:35:19.120 then maybe we could adjust capitalism and the West,

00:35:22.160 and the hierarchies would go away, and there wouldn't be any more dispossessed people.

00:35:25.540 It's like, no, sorry, it's a way worse problem than that.

00:35:28.600 You could get rid of the West completely.

00:35:31.400 You could get rid of capitalism completely, and you wouldn't touch hierarchies.

00:35:35.880 In fact, what you would do, and the evidence for this is crystal clear,

00:35:38.820 you would make them a lot steeper and a lot worse than they are.

00:35:41.620 So even if you're on the left, and mostly what you're propelled by, let's say,

00:35:46.720 is compassion for the dispossessed, then you better update your damn theory

00:35:50.100 because you're not going to get anywhere with, like, 19th century Marxism

00:35:53.660 and its clueless critique of capitalism.

00:35:57.080 So, okay, so back to standing up straight with your shoulders back.

00:36:01.560 So here's another thing that's kind of cool.

00:36:03.780 So in hierarchies, even animals have hierarchies.

00:36:07.860 And so the question is, what makes animals successful in hierarchies?

00:36:12.320 And if you look at really, really simple animals, like lobsters, like crustaceans,

00:36:17.680 which we diverged from 350 million years ago, common ancestors 350 million years ago,

00:36:24.360 a lot of what seems to make one lobster more dominant than another

00:36:29.200 does have to do with size, strength, power, let's say.

00:36:36.180 But not entirely, not entirely.

00:36:40.260 Because, you know, the larger lobster was actually better at finding food.

00:36:44.520 So there's a competence element there, too.

00:36:47.060 But once you get to, say, mammals, it's pretty clear that pure power doesn't do the trick.

00:36:52.320 So, and there's some really interesting data on that from the biological sciences.

00:36:56.520 So one thing that's quite interesting is there's a guy named Franz Duval,

00:37:01.940 whose work I would highly recommend.

00:37:03.700 He's a primatologist, and he's been studying chimpanzees for a very long time.

00:37:08.900 And chimpanzees are our closest biological relative.

00:37:12.580 We share a tremendous amount of genetic material with chimpanzees.

00:37:16.380 It's about 99.9%.

00:37:18.100 I mean, I think we share 90% with yeast, so it's not, you know, that overwhelming.

00:37:24.140 But, because there's tremendous continuity in life.

00:37:27.380 But chimpanzees are our closest biological relatives.

00:37:30.540 And so, in principle, it's interesting to study them,

00:37:32.800 to shed light on where we came from.

00:37:35.940 We diverged from the common ancestor about 7 million years ago.

00:37:39.280 And, you know, you kind of have this idea.

00:37:41.180 Chimps organize themselves into hierarchies.

00:37:43.280 And the hierarchies tend to be male-dominated.

00:37:46.300 So that's something that is arguably similar between chimpanzees and human beings,

00:37:51.100 although it's quite complicated.

00:37:53.560 And you might think, you know, it's the biggest, ugliest, meanest chimp

00:37:56.680 with the hardest bite and the most ferocious roar

00:38:00.520 who ends up being on the top of the chimpanzee dominance hierarchy.

00:38:04.800 But what Franz Duval has shown is that that's actually not true.

00:38:07.900 And so, the reason for that is quite straightforward.

00:38:11.220 Like, chimpanzees are very, very strong.

00:38:13.620 And they're very brutal.

00:38:14.580 And they hunt.

00:38:16.260 They'll hunt colobus monkeys.

00:38:17.780 They're about 40-pound monkeys.

00:38:19.240 They'll eat them alive.

00:38:21.040 And so, there's no limit to chimp brutality.

00:38:23.580 And chimps do raiding.

00:38:24.900 So, juvenile chimps will sort of patrol the borders of their territory.

00:38:28.240 And if they find a foreign chimp that they out...

00:38:30.640 If there's a group of them and they find a foreign chimp,

00:38:33.500 and they outnumber the foreign chimps, let's say,

00:38:35.640 then they'll tear them to pieces.

00:38:36.700 And so, they can be extraordinarily brutal.

00:38:40.560 And you see, when two chimps face off in a dominance dispute,

00:38:46.800 the aggression will mount and mount and mount.

00:38:49.400 But usually, it's within the confines of the rest of the chimpanzee group.

00:38:52.980 And the rest of the group will get increasingly agitated

00:38:55.480 as the aggression spirals upward.

00:38:57.400 And that tends to keep it dampened down.

00:38:59.980 But there's no real intrinsic limitation on the amount of aggression

00:39:03.340 that two male chimps will manifest in a dominance dispute.

00:39:06.420 Not in principle.

00:39:08.120 And so, what that means is something actually quite straightforward.

00:39:10.840 Which is that, if you're the meanest, roughest, power chimp,

00:39:17.840 who's most power hungry,

00:39:19.320 and you clamber up to the top of the hierarchy,

00:39:21.620 and you have no friends, and you have no allies,

00:39:25.060 and you don't engage in any reciprocal interactions,

00:39:27.400 you're going to have a bad day.

00:39:29.780 And two chimps that are three-quarters as powerful as you

00:39:32.640 are going to band together and take you out.

00:39:35.960 And that happens all the time.

00:39:37.500 And so, what Duval found was that power is not a very stable basis

00:39:42.620 for the construction of hierarchies, even among chimpanzees,

00:39:46.240 because power is unstable.

00:39:49.000 And that the chimps who clamber to the top,

00:39:52.260 and who stay there longest,

00:39:54.200 so who produce, let's say, the most stable hierarchies,

00:39:56.840 that also produce the least probability of being torn to shreds

00:40:01.600 by their political enemies,

00:40:02.920 are actually the chimps who are really good at engaging in reciprocal interactions.

00:40:07.780 So, they're chimps with friends.

00:40:09.800 And the male chimps that rise to the top of the hierarchy

00:40:12.640 are pretty good at maintaining reciprocal interactions

00:40:17.180 with the females and with the infants.

00:40:19.560 And so, they're actually kind of peaceful and cooperative.

00:40:21.560 Like, they're no pushovers, no.

00:40:23.900 But they're not tyrants.

00:40:25.820 Even among chimps, it's not a good idea to be a tyrant.

00:40:29.680 And here's another example from rats.

00:40:31.440 I love this study.

00:40:32.260 This was done by Jock Panksepp,

00:40:33.840 who is the affective neuroscientist,

00:40:36.480 so a neuroscientist of emotions,

00:40:38.240 who discovered the play circuit in mammals.

00:40:41.460 And that's a big deal, eh?

00:40:42.740 Like, to discover a whole biological circuit

00:40:45.200 devoted to a class of behavior

00:40:46.780 is approximately equivalent, I would say,

00:40:49.140 in magnitude to discovering a new continent.

00:40:51.500 It's a big deal.

00:40:52.840 He should get the Nobel Prize for it,

00:40:54.460 but he probably won't.

00:40:55.720 But, in any case, he discovered play circuitry in mammals.

00:40:58.840 So, mammals have a play circuit.

00:41:00.200 And that's why we're so playful, or at least in part.

00:41:03.920 And so, he liked to study play among rats,

00:41:07.660 and to try to figure out what play was for.

00:41:09.940 And he was motivated, at least in part,

00:41:12.340 by the same motivations that propelled another psychologist,

00:41:15.700 Jean Piaget, who's a developmental psychologist,

00:41:17.880 who intensely studied play behavior in children,

00:41:21.000 because he believed that when children were playing,

00:41:24.020 partly pretend play, you know,

00:41:25.500 when they were learning to be parents, let's say,

00:41:27.760 but partly reciprocal play,

00:41:30.160 and the play of games,

00:41:31.880 they were actually producing microcosms of society.

00:41:35.340 So, the way that we learn to be social

00:41:37.060 is that we learn to play games with others,

00:41:39.100 and then we scale up those games,

00:41:40.720 and the largest scale games are actually our societies.

00:41:43.880 And so, there's no real difference

00:41:45.120 between a child's game and an adult's society,

00:41:48.100 except at the level of scale.

00:41:50.520 And so, that's why it's so important

00:41:52.380 that your children learn how to play well with others.

00:41:55.260 There's really, I would say,

00:41:56.600 nothing more important that they can learn to do,

00:41:58.600 because if they can play well with others,

00:42:01.160 then others will invite them to play

00:42:03.980 throughout their entire life,

00:42:05.920 and then they'll have a good life.

00:42:08.280 So, it's really, it's of unbelievably fundamental importance.

00:42:12.260 And if your kids don't learn how to play properly

00:42:14.320 by the time they're four,

00:42:15.560 then they never will.

00:42:17.060 So, there's a critical period of development

00:42:18.780 between two and four,

00:42:19.900 where that ability to play

00:42:21.460 has to be properly encouraged and developed.

00:42:26.040 And that ability to play

00:42:27.600 is partly the ability to take someone else's position,

00:42:30.840 which is to take turns, right?

00:42:32.540 Because if I know that I have to take turns,

00:42:34.620 then now and then I have to make you as important as me.

00:42:37.760 I have to be able to flip my perspective.

00:42:39.940 It's unbelievably important,

00:42:42.220 apart from also the ability to adopt a fictional world

00:42:46.020 and to engage in pretense,

00:42:47.800 which is to think abstractly and all of that.

00:42:50.340 And so, Panksepp was really interested in play,

00:42:53.000 because it was so important.

00:42:54.900 And he noticed that even among rats,

00:42:57.620 who are highly social,

00:42:59.120 who organize themselves into complex family units

00:43:02.020 and then social hierarchies,

00:43:03.700 that a fair bit of the way that they learn

00:43:07.300 how to become social is through play.

00:43:09.520 And some of that play is actually rough-and-tumble play,

00:43:12.020 because rats wrestle,

00:43:13.360 just like human children wrestle.

00:43:16.260 And children love to wrestle.

00:43:17.760 They absolutely love that.

00:43:19.100 And it's really, really good for them.

00:43:20.980 So, those of you,

00:43:22.200 fathers are particularly prone

00:43:24.340 to wrestle physically with their kids.

00:43:26.820 And I can tell you from the perspective

00:43:29.140 of a psychologist interested in the development of children

00:43:32.080 and the regulation of anti-social and aggressive behavior,

00:43:35.740 that there's really nothing better you can do

00:43:37.380 if you're a father

00:43:38.300 than to engage in rough-and-tumble play with your kids.

00:43:41.000 It's really, really, really good for them.

00:43:44.300 And you can tell that

00:43:45.220 by how unbelievably excited they are

00:43:48.040 to have the opportunity to do that, right?

00:43:50.400 Because they'll do virtually anything

00:43:52.380 to have an opportunity

00:43:53.400 to wrestle with, well, with their father.

00:43:57.320 Mothers don't do that as much.

00:43:58.800 They have a different role, it appears.

00:44:00.740 But not that they don't ever do it.

00:44:02.380 But it's really something that fathers are likely to do.

00:44:05.420 And it's really important for kids

00:44:06.920 that that happens.

00:44:08.740 It teaches them how to engage

00:44:10.440 in reciprocal interaction

00:44:11.640 right at the level of the body.

00:44:13.600 You know, it's not abstract, right?

00:44:15.180 It's like you're teaching them to dance.

00:44:17.400 It's really important.

00:44:18.720 And so, I can tell when I walk down the street,

00:44:21.720 I can see kids who were played with

00:44:23.600 and who weren't.

00:44:24.660 I can identify them on sight.

00:44:26.840 Because the kids who weren't played with properly

00:44:28.540 are kind of, they're uncertain

00:44:31.160 and they're kind of,

00:44:32.640 it's like they're not there, really.

00:44:34.740 They're sort of doughy

00:44:35.860 and they're sort of uncertain

00:44:37.960 and they don't really know

00:44:38.960 how to look at you properly

00:44:39.960 and they don't know how to hold their bodies.

00:44:41.520 Like, they're awkward in their bodies.

00:44:43.380 And other kids pick that up right away

00:44:45.100 and won't play with them.

00:44:46.360 And it's really, really bad for the kids

00:44:47.980 because then they don't get played with.

00:44:49.380 And that's a horrible thing if you're a kid.

00:44:51.540 Well, so,

00:44:52.980 Banksep took rats, juvenile rats,

00:44:54.860 and he, first of all,

00:44:57.000 did what other psychologists did,

00:44:58.640 was to try to find out

00:44:59.480 how motivated a rat might be to play.

00:45:01.560 And you can figure out

00:45:02.380 how motivated an animal is

00:45:03.780 to do something

00:45:04.420 by how much work they'll do to do it.

00:45:06.900 And so, you can imagine

00:45:08.260 that you put a rat out

00:45:09.560 in this little field,

00:45:11.380 you know, little area,

00:45:12.640 where you had a chance

00:45:13.340 to wrestle with another rat.

00:45:14.620 So, he kind of learns

00:45:15.640 that that's the wrestling ring.

00:45:17.540 And then you put a little gate

00:45:18.460 to the wrestling ring

00:45:19.420 and you teach the rat

00:45:20.440 to push a button a lot

00:45:22.220 to open the gate.

00:45:23.280 And then you can see

00:45:23.900 how fast he'll push the button

00:45:25.100 to open the gate

00:45:25.740 and then you can get some estimate

00:45:26.980 of how interested the rat is

00:45:28.520 in playing.

00:45:29.920 And what you find out is

00:45:30.860 rats are really interested in playing.

00:45:33.200 So, if you see a rat

00:45:34.160 and, you know,

00:45:34.840 you want to play with it,

00:45:35.720 then, well, anyways,

00:45:37.540 you know it's motivated.

00:45:38.660 It's in, it's,

00:45:39.540 you know.

00:45:41.140 Well, and you know this already

00:45:42.220 if you interact with animals

00:45:43.440 because you see it with dogs,

00:45:44.740 you know.

00:45:44.960 And if, if you're,

00:45:45.920 if you're kind of savvy

00:45:47.500 about dogs

00:45:48.240 and you're out in a dog park

00:45:49.700 and you're around some dogs

00:45:50.680 that are clued in

00:45:51.600 that wrestled a bit

00:45:52.760 with their masters

00:45:53.580 or maybe with other dogs

00:45:54.680 when they were puppies,

00:45:55.600 you know how to get a dog to play.

00:45:57.720 You kind of go like this, right?

00:45:58.940 And if it's a stupid dog,

00:46:00.640 then it'll, it'll whine

00:46:01.840 or howl or, or move away

00:46:03.580 or bite you

00:46:04.380 or do some damn thing.

00:46:05.900 But if it's a smart dog,

00:46:07.260 you go like this

00:46:08.060 and it goes like this.

00:46:09.620 And then, right, it knows

00:46:11.200 and it, it puts its paws down.

00:46:12.580 It looks at you expectantly.

00:46:14.120 Then maybe you cuff the dog

00:46:15.640 not too hard

00:46:16.580 and maybe it bites you

00:46:17.640 but not too hard.

00:46:18.580 And, you know,

00:46:19.120 you wrestle around

00:46:19.960 and, and you're both

00:46:21.160 having a good time.

00:46:21.960 You'll push a button a lot

00:46:23.000 to get an opportunity

00:46:23.900 to go out on the field

00:46:25.020 and play with the dog.

00:46:26.260 So, anyways,

00:46:28.640 rats want to go play.

00:46:31.040 So now you throw two rats out there

00:46:32.740 and, and, and they're going

00:46:34.380 to have a wrestling match.

00:46:35.420 And so, but one rat's 10%

00:46:37.520 bigger than the other.

00:46:39.140 And so, what happens is

00:46:40.260 the 10% bigger rat

00:46:41.640 pins the other rat.

00:46:42.600 And that's what rats do.

00:46:43.980 They actually pin

00:46:44.880 just like Worldwide

00:46:46.000 Wrestling Federation guys.

00:46:48.020 It's exactly the same thing.

00:46:49.160 They pin the shoulders down

00:46:50.320 and that means,

00:46:51.200 ha ha, you're the loser rat.

00:46:53.740 And so, you put two rats together

00:46:55.820 and one rat obtains dominance

00:46:58.400 over the other

00:46:58.940 if it's a bit bigger.

00:47:00.080 And so, if you're watching that

00:47:01.360 and you're kind of

00:47:02.080 a naive social scientist,

00:47:03.340 you'd say,

00:47:04.200 aha, the rat that uses power

00:47:07.340 power wins.

00:47:10.200 And then maybe you draw

00:47:11.480 some conclusions about

00:47:12.500 how games manifest themselves

00:47:13.920 and how power is the basis

00:47:15.420 for victory in games.

00:47:17.840 But that's wrong.

00:47:19.320 Because game,

00:47:20.460 game isn't something

00:47:21.620 you only play once.

00:47:23.640 And this is absolutely crucial

00:47:25.260 because life,

00:47:26.700 like, life is a sequence of days.

00:47:28.840 You know, they repeat.

00:47:29.860 And you don't just have

00:47:31.380 people around you

00:47:32.500 that you only see once.

00:47:33.720 Well, you do.

00:47:34.320 You drive by them

00:47:35.100 and all of that.

00:47:35.680 But the people in your life

00:47:37.460 you see all the time.

00:47:38.500 So, you're not playing

00:47:39.140 a one-off game with them.

00:47:40.420 You're playing

00:47:40.960 a reciprocal game.

00:47:42.560 And maybe you could use

00:47:43.460 power once to win

00:47:45.600 but try using that reciprocally

00:47:48.460 and you're not going to get

00:47:49.260 very far

00:47:49.800 because people kick back.

00:47:51.320 You know,

00:47:51.480 if you try to dominate people

00:47:52.820 continually over some period

00:47:54.180 of time,

00:47:54.760 it's not like they're happy

00:47:55.720 with you.

00:47:56.520 It's not like they're going

00:47:57.140 to cooperate with you.

00:47:58.500 They're waiting for their...

00:47:59.540 You're either going to

00:48:00.080 crush them completely

00:48:00.960 in which case

00:48:01.600 they're not good

00:48:02.380 for anything.

00:48:03.660 And what good is that?

00:48:05.060 Unless you just want

00:48:05.780 to be around people

00:48:06.500 who are crushed

00:48:07.180 which seems kind of pointless

00:48:08.400 unless you're a complete

00:48:09.520 bloody psychopath.

00:48:11.060 And then, you know,

00:48:12.440 you want to be around people

00:48:13.660 who are good for something

00:48:14.640 and so there's a demand

00:48:15.980 for reciprocity

00:48:17.240 that emerges

00:48:17.840 because of repeated games.

00:48:20.060 This is fundamentally important

00:48:21.760 because it looks like

00:48:22.440 it's the basis

00:48:23.040 of the evolution

00:48:24.200 of ethical behavior.

00:48:25.800 The fact that you have

00:48:26.660 to reciprocate

00:48:27.600 over repeated interactions.

00:48:29.380 Out of that

00:48:30.020 emerges ethics.

00:48:31.680 And even among rats.

00:48:32.660 So what happened?

00:48:33.340 Panksep would pair

00:48:34.660 the rats together

00:48:35.580 multiple times.

00:48:36.840 The two rats.

00:48:37.700 One had already

00:48:38.340 established dominance.

00:48:39.720 He thought,

00:48:40.040 okay, what happens

00:48:40.520 if you put those

00:48:41.080 out in the ring

00:48:41.520 the second time?

00:48:42.680 Well, the second time

00:48:43.620 the little rat,

00:48:45.440 the one who lost,

00:48:46.800 has to go ask

00:48:47.740 the big rat to play.

00:48:49.220 That's the price he pays

00:48:50.460 for having been dominated.

00:48:51.880 So he has to be

00:48:52.940 the sort of enticing rat

00:48:54.660 whereas the big rat

00:48:56.280 who one gets to be

00:48:57.320 the cool hanging back rat

00:48:58.800 that doesn't have to

00:48:59.520 ask anybody to play.

00:49:00.480 So the little rat

00:49:01.500 has to bounce up

00:49:02.340 and, you know,

00:49:03.040 kind of coax

00:49:04.400 the big rat to play.

00:49:05.920 And then the big rat

00:49:06.900 will play.

00:49:08.300 And so,

00:49:10.220 but,

00:49:10.760 if you pair the rats

00:49:12.060 together,

00:49:12.540 now we know the big rat

00:49:13.420 can stomp the little rat

00:49:14.420 because he already did.

00:49:15.940 But if you pair them

00:49:16.780 together repeatedly,

00:49:17.720 what you find is that

00:49:18.560 if the big rat

00:49:19.180 doesn't let the little rat

00:49:20.180 win 30% of the time,

00:49:22.540 then the little rat

00:49:23.280 stops asking him to play.

00:49:24.560 And I read that

00:49:26.700 and I,

00:49:27.120 well,

00:49:27.300 I knew Piaget's work

00:49:28.340 on play already

00:49:29.100 and the emergence

00:49:30.060 of reciprocal

00:49:30.820 ethic out of play.

00:49:32.640 I knew that human literature,

00:49:34.080 then I saw that

00:49:34.720 in the animal literature,

00:49:35.600 that study,

00:49:36.080 it just absolutely

00:49:36.880 blew me away.

00:49:37.640 I thought,

00:49:38.020 wow,

00:49:38.300 that's so,

00:49:38.780 that's absolutely

00:49:39.740 unbelievable.

00:49:41.260 Among a rather,

00:49:44.620 well,

00:49:44.900 a non-human mammal,

00:49:46.080 like rats have some

00:49:47.140 affinity with human beings

00:49:48.380 because we're both mammals,

00:49:49.580 but even among

00:49:50.860 non-human animals

00:49:52.560 across that great divide

00:49:54.160 of species and type,

00:49:56.220 a reciprocal

00:49:56.800 play-based ethic emerges.

00:49:58.840 And one of the rules is

00:49:59.840 play fair

00:50:01.020 or no one will play with you.

00:50:04.240 And that's just

00:50:05.060 absolutely mind-boggling

00:50:06.580 that that's the case

00:50:07.340 because it's one of the

00:50:08.640 pieces of evidence

00:50:09.440 that our ethical behavior,

00:50:12.060 which was essentially

00:50:12.800 our value structure,

00:50:14.080 isn't just arbitrary.

00:50:16.220 You know,

00:50:16.800 you hear constantly

00:50:18.180 claims,

00:50:18.720 and this has been

00:50:19.580 certainly something

00:50:20.280 that intellectuals

00:50:21.480 are responsible for,

00:50:22.600 especially over the

00:50:23.240 last 150 years.

00:50:24.580 You hear claims

00:50:25.320 of radical moral relativism.

00:50:27.560 There's no real

00:50:28.480 ethical system

00:50:29.320 and there's no real

00:50:30.280 commonality

00:50:31.080 across ethical systems.

00:50:33.200 Like,

00:50:33.480 that's wrong.

00:50:34.780 Not only is it wrong

00:50:36.140 for human beings,

00:50:37.200 but it's wrong

00:50:37.820 even if you go

00:50:38.460 across species,

00:50:39.960 there's an emergent ethic

00:50:41.060 and that ethic involves,

00:50:42.840 for social animals,

00:50:43.860 that ethic involves

00:50:44.760 a playful reciprocity

00:50:46.560 as a means of

00:50:47.920 manifesting yourself

00:50:50.480 in the world.

00:50:51.400 So that's really

00:50:52.340 something that's worth

00:50:53.140 knowing.

00:50:53.940 Well,

00:50:54.960 so what does that

00:50:55.640 have to do with

00:50:56.240 standing up straight

00:50:57.080 with your shoulders back?

00:50:58.700 Well,

00:50:59.000 the question is,

00:50:59.900 how do you want to

00:51:00.580 orient yourself in the world

00:51:01.920 to face the two

00:51:03.280 major categories of fear,

00:51:04.760 let's say,

00:51:05.280 but also to be able

00:51:06.380 to engage in something

00:51:07.500 like a playful reciprocity?

00:51:09.740 Well,

00:51:10.120 we know,

00:51:10.580 for example,

00:51:11.060 if you want to be playful

00:51:11.980 that you can't be

00:51:12.760 overcome by fear.

00:51:14.360 Fear inhibits play.

00:51:15.580 And so one of the things

00:51:17.060 that you actually want to do

00:51:18.120 if you're a parent

00:51:18.860 is you want to make

00:51:19.720 your household stable enough

00:51:22.020 so to keep the uncertainty

00:51:23.540 at bay enough

00:51:24.260 so that the kids

00:51:25.260 that are ensconced

00:51:26.160 within the walls

00:51:27.300 of your castle,

00:51:28.540 let's say,

00:51:29.220 have the opportunity

00:51:30.020 to play in front

00:51:31.540 of the fireplace

00:51:32.100 so that they can develop.

00:51:33.520 And so that's a big deal

00:51:35.360 because fear inhibits play.

00:51:37.580 And so what that means

00:51:38.800 is that to play properly,

00:51:40.680 well,

00:51:40.880 you have to be,

00:51:41.500 you have to be,

00:51:42.760 in some sense,

00:51:43.520 without fear.

00:51:44.660 Now,

00:51:45.060 that doesn't mean

00:51:46.180 that you're naive

00:51:48.180 or incapable of anxiety.

00:51:50.400 It actually means

00:51:51.220 something more like

00:51:52.020 that you have

00:51:52.500 a certain kind of courage.

00:51:54.180 And this is one of the things

00:51:55.220 I would say

00:51:55.740 that we admire

00:51:56.440 about people

00:51:58.020 who are,

00:51:58.960 let's say,

00:51:59.320 great athletes,

00:52:00.640 is that they have

00:52:01.460 a certain amount of courage.

00:52:02.760 You know,

00:52:03.040 you certainly see that

00:52:04.460 in real martial arts,

00:52:07.060 the fighting arts,

00:52:08.300 because you have to be

00:52:09.200 pretty damn courageous

00:52:10.000 to step in the ring.

00:52:10.920 But it's not like

00:52:12.500 going out to play

00:52:13.400 a game of hockey

00:52:15.380 is without its attendant risk

00:52:17.400 or to skateboard

00:52:18.420 or to engage in anything

00:52:19.700 that's kind of active,

00:52:21.520 complex game.

00:52:22.360 There's a fair bit

00:52:22.960 of physical risk

00:52:23.760 and there's reputational risk

00:52:25.460 and all of that as well.

00:52:26.820 And so there's a certain

00:52:27.740 courageous stance

00:52:28.800 that you have to take

00:52:29.820 towards the world

00:52:30.940 to not be overcome

00:52:32.300 by the fear

00:52:33.500 of the natural world

00:52:34.440 or the fear

00:52:34.860 of the social world

00:52:35.660 and then to play

00:52:37.180 in a properly

00:52:39.980 reciprocal manner.

00:52:41.400 You also have to

00:52:42.060 trust other people

00:52:42.960 and not naively,

00:52:44.800 you know.

00:52:45.680 Naive trust means

00:52:46.700 you'd never do anything

00:52:47.700 to hurt me.

00:52:48.420 It's like you have to be

00:52:49.040 naive to believe that.

00:52:50.620 You can't even believe

00:52:51.300 that about yourself.

00:52:52.980 And if you've been

00:52:54.320 around a bit,

00:52:55.060 well, you've been

00:52:55.500 betrayed by people

00:52:56.420 including yourself

00:52:57.280 and so you can't

00:52:58.300 just have that

00:52:59.000 naive trust.

00:53:00.180 You have to have

00:53:00.940 a courageous trust

00:53:02.000 which is,

00:53:02.760 well, I know that

00:53:03.540 you could hurt me

00:53:04.400 and I could hurt you

00:53:05.280 but we can put out

00:53:07.500 a hand of trust

00:53:08.280 to each other

00:53:08.820 and hypothetically

00:53:10.120 we can entice

00:53:10.960 the best out

00:53:11.740 of each other

00:53:12.240 that way

00:53:12.840 and that'll work

00:53:13.720 best for both of us

00:53:14.660 but it's not because

00:53:15.320 we're stupid and naive.

00:53:16.600 It's because

00:53:17.040 knowing full well

00:53:18.620 what the danger is,

00:53:20.640 we're still willing

00:53:21.760 to engage

00:53:22.540 in the activity

00:53:23.460 and that's

00:53:24.920 a kind of courage

00:53:26.160 and the proposition

00:53:28.620 that I put forward

00:53:29.700 in the first rule

00:53:31.120 in 12 Rules for Life

00:53:32.540 was it's best

00:53:33.660 to stand up straight

00:53:34.660 with your shoulders back

00:53:35.740 because that constitutes

00:53:37.380 the posture

00:53:38.280 that indicates

00:53:39.160 that courageous,

00:53:40.960 that willingness

00:53:41.520 to take a courageous

00:53:42.620 stance on the world.

00:53:44.960 And you see this

00:53:45.520 among kids too,

00:53:46.420 you know,

00:53:47.020 there's a couple of things

00:53:47.840 that's kind of useful

00:53:48.620 to know about kids.

00:53:49.680 It's not the fearful kids

00:53:51.440 who have been taught

00:53:53.740 to be or who are terrified

00:53:55.560 of everything,

00:53:56.700 strangers included,

00:53:58.240 who are the desirable

00:54:00.560 play partners

00:54:01.400 on the playground.

00:54:02.740 It's the confident kids

00:54:03.900 and here's something else

00:54:05.000 you might want to know.

00:54:06.580 Let's say that you're

00:54:07.580 a predatory,

00:54:08.940 pedophilic psychopath

00:54:10.220 and you're on the hunt

00:54:12.240 for a child.

00:54:14.200 Who are you going to target?

00:54:16.320 We know this by the way.

00:54:17.480 This has been nicely studied.

00:54:20.200 Fearful children.

00:54:21.120 So if you teach your children

00:54:24.240 to be afraid of everything

00:54:25.300 and that's how they act,

00:54:26.780 to be afraid of every stranger,

00:54:28.340 to be afraid of the world

00:54:29.440 and there's someone

00:54:30.440 on the hunt,

00:54:32.040 then that's the child

00:54:33.220 they're going to go after

00:54:34.000 because they don't go after

00:54:35.140 the confident children

00:54:36.340 who are likely

00:54:38.020 to put up a bit of a scrap

00:54:39.760 if something happens

00:54:41.280 that's untoward.

00:54:42.660 They go after the children

00:54:43.840 who are too afraid

00:54:45.500 to deal with the world properly.

00:54:47.640 And so that's something

00:54:48.360 to think about

00:54:48.980 if you're obsessed

00:54:49.680 with protecting your children

00:54:50.880 because the best way

00:54:52.080 to protect them

00:54:52.780 is to make them competent

00:54:54.320 not to make them afraid

00:54:57.040 and protected

00:54:58.040 because there is no

00:54:59.100 protecting them

00:54:59.840 in some sense

00:55:00.480 except insofar

00:55:01.560 as you can make them competent.

00:55:03.160 So the injunction

00:55:03.860 in rule one was

00:55:04.900 stand up straight

00:55:07.540 with your shoulders back

00:55:08.660 because it's the best

00:55:10.580 tack to take on the world.

00:55:13.820 Right?

00:55:14.060 To manifest courage

00:55:15.300 in the face of

00:55:16.300 the terrible realities

00:55:18.240 of biological necessity

00:55:21.620 and also

00:55:22.740 the possibility

00:55:23.940 of social alienation

00:55:25.740 and disgrace.

00:55:26.960 You still have to

00:55:27.940 open yourself up

00:55:28.780 so that you

00:55:29.380 trust

00:55:30.400 despite knowing

00:55:32.060 the danger.

00:55:33.280 And that puts you

00:55:34.220 in the best

00:55:35.020 possible position

00:55:36.140 to interact

00:55:37.240 with other people

00:55:37.900 and that's the best

00:55:39.180 possible position

00:55:40.180 to take

00:55:40.660 within a hierarchy.

00:55:42.520 You know,

00:55:43.160 here's another way

00:55:43.920 of thinking about it.

00:55:44.740 You know how

00:55:45.160 you have a kid

00:55:46.360 and the kid's

00:55:47.760 a sports person

00:55:48.800 maybe a hockey player

00:55:49.680 and they're out there

00:55:51.320 playing hockey

00:55:52.240 and they're playing

00:55:52.920 really hard

00:55:53.380 and they lose a game

00:55:54.520 and they get off the ice

00:55:55.400 and they're all upset

00:55:56.080 about it

00:55:56.560 and you know

00:55:57.500 maybe they're having

00:55:58.140 a bit of a tantrum

00:55:58.880 about it

00:55:59.360 and you say something like

00:56:00.780 and you don't like

00:56:01.340 to see that

00:56:02.100 even though you want

00:56:03.060 your kid to win

00:56:03.720 and you want your kid

00:56:04.480 to want to win

00:56:05.220 but you don't want them

00:56:06.460 to have a fit

00:56:07.040 when they lose.

00:56:08.160 It's like,

00:56:08.460 well why not?

00:56:09.100 If you want them to win

00:56:09.940 why is it wrong

00:56:10.800 if they have a fit

00:56:11.820 when they lose?

00:56:12.720 Because you shouldn't lose.

00:56:14.020 And so shouldn't that

00:56:14.820 make you upset?

00:56:15.740 You're supposed to care

00:56:16.800 but that isn't how you act.

00:56:18.540 You say it doesn't matter

00:56:19.240 whether you win or lose.

00:56:20.580 It matters how you play the game.

00:56:22.560 And the kid says

00:56:23.320 what do you mean by that?

00:56:24.800 And you say

00:56:25.320 I don't know really

00:56:26.740 what that means

00:56:27.680 but it's true.

00:56:30.860 And here's what it means.

00:56:33.080 Life isn't a game.

00:56:35.220 Life is a sequence of games.

00:56:37.400 And whether you win or lose

00:56:38.560 is not as important

00:56:39.420 as whether or not

00:56:40.020 people invite you

00:56:40.720 to play the game.

00:56:41.480 And if you conduct yourself

00:56:43.420 properly and nobly

00:56:44.840 which is you're a good sport

00:56:46.400 let's say

00:56:47.000 it matters how you play the game.

00:56:49.180 If you conduct yourself properly

00:56:50.360 then people are going to line up

00:56:51.800 to invite you to play games.

00:56:53.280 And that's winning.

00:56:56.060 You never sacrifice

00:56:57.460 the opportunity

00:56:59.560 to play many games

00:57:00.740 for victory at one game.

00:57:03.000 Right?

00:57:03.640 That's a basis

00:57:04.440 of the emergence

00:57:05.180 of ethics itself.

00:57:07.260 And so that's part of the reason

00:57:08.260 why you stand up straight

00:57:09.200 with your shoulders back.

00:57:11.000 And so it's so nice

00:57:11.780 to know these things

00:57:12.800 you know

00:57:13.080 because it helps remove doubt.

00:57:15.080 You think

00:57:15.300 well is there a proper way

00:57:16.540 of behaving in the world?

00:57:17.640 Well no

00:57:18.020 everything's morally relative.

00:57:19.460 It's like

00:57:19.700 no it's not.

00:57:21.300 That's not true.

00:57:22.580 It's not even a little bit true.

00:57:24.340 And there's lots of variation

00:57:25.640 in how you could conduct yourself

00:57:27.240 as a decent person

00:57:28.520 in the world.

00:57:29.520 You know

00:57:29.740 it's like

00:57:30.800 there's lots of ways

00:57:31.900 of playing a good chess game

00:57:33.460 but there's way more ways

00:57:34.540 of playing a bad chess game.

00:57:36.300 It's still a bounded world

00:57:37.520 and we're perfectly capable

00:57:39.060 of identifying across people

00:57:41.160 those who are playing properly.

00:57:42.980 And we do elevate them

00:57:44.880 in the hierarchy

00:57:45.800 because we're not stupid.

00:57:47.800 You know

00:57:48.040 if we produce hierarchies

00:57:49.440 we don't put the tyrants

00:57:50.760 at the top.

00:57:51.680 Sometimes they clamber

00:57:52.740 to the top

00:57:53.260 because they get the upper hand

00:57:54.460 and they've got the weapons.

00:57:55.980 You know

00:57:56.140 and we're in a place

00:57:57.060 where only the psychopaths win.

00:57:59.080 But that isn't

00:57:59.680 the normative situation

00:58:00.980 and it certainly isn't

00:58:01.840 what we desire

00:58:02.520 and it's not what we teach

00:58:03.640 our children generally speaking.

00:58:05.540 We teach them to be competent

00:58:06.860 and decent

00:58:07.460 and trusting

00:58:08.180 and good sports

00:58:09.320 and we hope that everyone

00:58:10.280 around them will have

00:58:11.060 the good sense

00:58:11.740 that if they manifest themselves

00:58:13.600 like that in the world

00:58:14.600 that will produce success

00:58:15.920 and it does.

00:58:18.480 And so

00:58:18.760 so much for the idea

00:58:19.880 that what we inhabit

00:58:20.800 is a tyrannical

00:58:21.680 patriarchal hierarchy.

00:58:23.580 It's not the case

00:58:24.600 even though it can

00:58:25.840 degenerate into that.

00:58:27.660 Alright

00:58:27.900 so that's you

00:58:28.740 and that's your ethic

00:58:29.560 and that's how you should

00:58:30.500 behave in the world

00:58:31.320 and so that's why

00:58:32.340 I wrote chapter 2

00:58:33.480 too

00:58:33.760 and chapter 2

00:58:34.520 is treat yourself

00:58:35.820 like you're someone

00:58:36.660 responsible for helping.

00:58:38.780 It's like well

00:58:39.300 you know

00:58:39.700 you've got this ability

00:58:41.820 to play properly

00:58:43.440 in the world

00:58:43.960 and to bring your talents

00:58:45.300 to bear

00:58:45.700 and we actually need

00:58:46.840 your talents

00:58:47.380 whatever they happen to be

00:58:48.460 the rest of us need them

00:58:49.460 you need them

00:58:50.340 your family needs them

00:58:51.480 your community needs them

00:58:52.980 and despite all your

00:58:54.140 inadequacies

00:58:54.900 which are manifold

00:58:55.720 then it would be good

00:58:57.080 to treat yourself

00:58:57.920 like you're a decent

00:58:59.300 player in a good game

00:59:00.540 and that's an ethical

00:59:01.860 responsibility

00:59:02.600 I would say

00:59:03.400 and so it doesn't mean

00:59:04.640 be nice to yourself

00:59:05.580 and it doesn't mean

00:59:06.240 elevate your self-esteem

00:59:07.420 and it doesn't mean

00:59:08.400 you should never be ashamed

00:59:09.400 of yourself

00:59:09.940 because you should be ashamed

00:59:11.020 of yourself plenty

00:59:12.000 it's actually a good thing

00:59:13.460 if it doesn't go too far

00:59:14.620 because it helps tilt you

00:59:16.100 into better behavior

00:59:18.040 but having said all that

00:59:19.920 it's still appropriate

00:59:21.420 that you regard yourself

00:59:22.840 as a valuable player

00:59:24.740 in a good game

00:59:25.500 and that you

00:59:26.400 treat yourself

00:59:27.400 in that manner

00:59:28.100 and that's one of the

00:59:29.440 things I would say

00:59:30.260 that you help people

00:59:31.120 aspire to

00:59:32.200 in psychotherapy

00:59:33.440 is to say

00:59:34.100 well why don't we see

00:59:35.360 if we can set up

00:59:36.180 your life

00:59:36.560 so that it would be

00:59:37.340 good for you

00:59:38.320 you know

00:59:39.060 like you had some

00:59:40.140 intrinsic value

00:59:41.200 and of course

00:59:42.820 our whole society

00:59:43.760 this is one of the

00:59:44.660 wonderful things

00:59:45.380 about what we've

00:59:46.280 discovered in the west

00:59:47.100 I believe

00:59:47.480 our entire society

00:59:48.460 is predicated

00:59:49.100 on the fundamental idea

00:59:50.200 that every single one

00:59:51.440 of us

00:59:51.740 have a sovereign value

00:59:53.140 and you know

00:59:55.320 our society works

00:59:56.260 pretty well

00:59:56.800 and so to me

00:59:57.460 that indicates

00:59:58.080 that that's a pretty

00:59:58.680 good proposition

00:59:59.460 and if it's a good

01:00:00.320 proposition

01:00:00.820 and it stabilizes

01:00:02.020 our society

01:00:03.060 then probably applies

01:00:04.420 to you

01:00:05.280 from you

01:00:06.140 okay

01:00:07.460 so you should

01:00:08.380 treat yourself

01:00:08.920 like you're someone

01:00:09.580 who you're responsible

01:00:10.880 for helping

01:00:11.720 that's a reasonable

01:00:12.920 attitude

01:00:13.400 and the rule three

01:00:14.360 is make friends

01:00:15.820 with people

01:00:16.240 who want the best

01:00:16.960 for you

01:00:17.340 and it's the same

01:00:19.100 idea

01:00:19.500 it's like

01:00:20.240 well if you're

01:00:20.920 a good player

01:00:22.340 and you have

01:00:23.000 a part to play

01:00:23.880 and you should

01:00:24.640 treat yourself

01:00:25.160 properly

01:00:25.580 then you should

01:00:26.720 and should

01:00:27.980 meaning you have

01:00:28.820 a moral obligation

01:00:29.760 to also surround

01:00:31.240 yourself

01:00:31.640 with people

01:00:32.580 who watch you

01:00:34.000 move up

01:00:34.460 and are happy

01:00:35.180 when that happens

01:00:36.080 and if they see

01:00:37.360 you slip down

01:00:38.040 they're not pleased

01:00:38.800 about it

01:00:39.360 as opposed to

01:00:40.560 the opposite

01:00:41.060 because you can

01:00:42.080 certainly be around

01:00:42.800 people who are

01:00:43.380 not happy in the least

01:00:44.940 when something good

01:00:45.680 happens to you

01:00:46.320 or you do something

01:00:47.040 good

01:00:47.340 and are perfectly

01:00:48.420 thrilled when you

01:00:49.180 fall and stumble

01:00:49.980 because it makes

01:00:51.060 their falling and

01:00:52.000 stumbling seem

01:00:52.780 less appalling

01:00:55.080 let's say

01:00:56.140 and so that's

01:00:57.840 another element

01:00:58.680 of obligation

01:00:59.400 is to surround

01:01:01.260 yourself with

01:01:01.840 people who are

01:01:03.420 aiming up

01:01:04.100 in the manner

01:01:04.680 that you're aiming

01:01:05.440 up

01:01:05.780 so at least

01:01:06.560 you're all aiming

01:01:07.220 up

01:01:07.540 and that are

01:01:08.240 and who are

01:01:09.360 supporting you

01:01:10.080 in that endeavor

01:01:10.760 who celebrate

01:01:11.800 your victories

01:01:12.500 and who commiserate

01:01:13.800 with you

01:01:14.260 in your undeserved

01:01:15.780 and perhaps even

01:01:16.800 your deserved

01:01:17.380 defeats

01:01:17.900 and that's also

01:01:18.840 a moral obligation

01:01:19.880 and then rule

01:01:21.760 four

01:01:22.120 that's

01:01:22.680 compare yourself

01:01:24.440 to who you

01:01:25.020 were

01:01:25.420 yesterday

01:01:26.620 and not to

01:01:27.800 who someone

01:01:28.340 else is

01:01:28.860 today

01:01:29.240 well

01:01:30.100 we talked

01:01:31.580 about this

01:01:32.140 instinct that

01:01:33.320 you have to

01:01:33.820 admire people

01:01:34.680 and that's a

01:01:35.540 good instinct

01:01:36.100 it helps you

01:01:37.580 be motivated

01:01:39.580 to mimic

01:01:40.260 what makes

01:01:41.880 people successful

01:01:43.020 in the broadest

01:01:44.120 sense

01:01:44.480 there's a problem

01:01:47.120 with that

01:01:47.540 comparison

01:01:48.100 capacity

01:01:48.980 though

01:01:49.200 because

01:01:49.500 when you

01:01:50.240 see people

01:01:50.820 who are

01:01:51.660 spectacularly

01:01:53.040 successful

01:01:53.460 at something

01:01:54.020 that can

01:01:54.840 produce

01:01:55.900 a certain

01:01:56.440 amount

01:01:56.700 of

01:01:57.300 disenchantment

01:01:58.440 and envy

01:01:58.820 especially

01:01:59.260 if you think

01:01:59.740 the game

01:02:00.060 is rigged

01:02:00.440 but even

01:02:00.780 if you don't

01:02:01.460 think that

01:02:01.940 even if you

01:02:02.920 think it's

01:02:03.260 a fair contest

01:02:04.020 and someone

01:02:04.780 else is

01:02:05.640 performing

01:02:06.100 at a stellar

01:02:06.620 level

01:02:06.960 it's easy

01:02:07.740 to become

01:02:08.140 envious

01:02:08.520 and bitter

01:02:08.980 about that

01:02:09.600 and I think

01:02:10.600 that's

01:02:11.440 understandable

01:02:12.040 but I also

01:02:12.620 think it's

01:02:13.000 a big mistake

01:02:13.620 because it's

01:02:14.140 not so easy

01:02:14.700 to compare

01:02:15.120 yourself

01:02:15.460 to other

01:02:15.800 people

01:02:16.160 especially

01:02:16.900 when you

01:02:17.200 get a little

01:02:17.540 older

01:02:17.900 it's different

01:02:18.700 I think

01:02:19.040 when you're

01:02:19.340 16 or 17

01:02:20.220 and just

01:02:20.620 starting off

01:02:21.140 your life

01:02:21.520 and the

01:02:22.180 people you're

01:02:22.640 comparing yourself

01:02:23.380 to at your

01:02:24.780 age are pretty

01:02:25.720 much like you

01:02:26.540 so they haven't

01:02:27.840 diverged a lot

01:02:28.620 but by the time

01:02:29.260 you're 30

01:02:29.800 your life is so

01:02:31.040 much different

01:02:31.540 from everyone

01:02:32.040 else's life

01:02:32.800 it's so peculiar

01:02:33.780 and so

01:02:34.280 idiosyncratic

01:02:35.240 your combination

01:02:36.220 of strengths

01:02:36.960 and weaknesses

01:02:37.540 and the

01:02:38.680 particularities

01:02:40.820 of your social

01:02:41.580 relationships

01:02:42.160 and the

01:02:42.980 idiosyncrasies

01:02:43.840 of your

01:02:44.140 job

01:02:44.620 and all

01:02:44.920 of that

01:02:45.220 it's like

01:02:45.480 you're enough

01:02:48.020 like other

01:02:48.520 people

01:02:48.820 so you can

01:02:49.340 communicate

01:02:49.740 with them

01:02:50.180 but you're

01:02:50.560 really different

01:02:51.180 from other

01:02:51.600 people

01:02:51.940 and you know

01:02:52.980 this is another

01:02:53.640 thing you learn

01:02:54.300 working as a

01:02:55.480 therapist

01:02:55.820 is that

01:02:56.300 there aren't

01:02:57.320 a lot of

01:02:57.700 generic solutions

01:02:58.660 for people

01:02:59.260 and their

01:02:59.560 particular

01:02:59.940 problems

01:03:00.540 you have to

01:03:01.520 talk through

01:03:02.740 how it is

01:03:04.180 that someone

01:03:04.680 came to be

01:03:05.420 where they are

01:03:06.200 in detail

01:03:07.220 so you know

01:03:07.860 exactly where

01:03:08.620 they are

01:03:08.980 and why

01:03:09.380 and then you

01:03:09.760 have to come

01:03:10.120 up with a

01:03:10.440 very particularized

01:03:11.480 plan for that

01:03:12.600 person to move

01:03:13.260 ahead

01:03:13.540 high resolution

01:03:14.780 detailed

01:03:15.460 particularized

01:03:16.280 plan

01:03:16.700 that sort of

01:03:17.560 implies that

01:03:18.140 comparing yourself

01:03:19.000 casually to other

01:03:19.740 people just isn't

01:03:20.460 very helpful

01:03:21.080 and I also think

01:03:22.140 it's kind of

01:03:22.620 blind you know

01:03:23.380 I've worked with

01:03:24.380 lots of very

01:03:25.560 very successful

01:03:26.340 people in my

01:03:27.300 clinical and

01:03:28.600 consulting practice

01:03:29.360 and also with

01:03:30.000 people who were

01:03:30.600 really on the

01:03:31.540 other end of the

01:03:32.200 distribution entirely

01:03:33.260 so I've sort of

01:03:33.980 seen the whole

01:03:34.680 range of human

01:03:35.800 ability

01:03:36.200 one of the things

01:03:37.240 that I've been

01:03:37.720 struck by at the

01:03:39.140 lower end is

01:03:39.880 how remarkable

01:03:40.960 people who aren't

01:03:41.940 doing well can

01:03:43.140 still be at

01:03:44.480 certain things

01:03:45.400 you know

01:03:45.920 one of the most

01:03:46.640 admirable people I

01:03:47.640 ever met was

01:03:48.260 someone who was

01:03:48.920 living at one

01:03:50.900 level above a

01:03:52.020 demolished street

01:03:53.340 person and I

01:03:54.980 saw her do

01:03:55.800 ethical things

01:03:56.760 that were really

01:03:57.500 quite beyond my

01:03:58.760 capacity to believe

01:04:00.520 you know

01:04:00.980 even in her

01:04:01.780 completely crushed

01:04:02.940 and humble form

01:04:03.880 she was still

01:04:04.680 capable of engaging

01:04:06.060 in reciprocal

01:04:06.620 interactions with

01:04:07.560 other people

01:04:08.060 hadn't been

01:04:08.840 consumed completely

01:04:10.000 by envy and

01:04:11.340 hatred

01:04:11.660 it was really

01:04:12.220 something to

01:04:12.780 see

01:04:13.080 and then at

01:04:14.180 the top end

01:04:14.840 what I've been

01:04:15.360 struck by is

01:04:16.080 the fact that

01:04:17.440 I know even

01:04:17.940 people who are

01:04:18.560 radically successful

01:04:19.560 they still have

01:04:20.520 really hard lives

01:04:21.420 you know when they

01:04:23.220 have

01:04:23.500 well

01:04:24.860 they had a

01:04:26.000 terrible bullying

01:04:26.720 father who beat

01:04:27.560 them very badly

01:04:28.240 when they were

01:04:28.700 young

01:04:28.980 that's what

01:04:29.640 that's one

01:04:30.160 possibility

01:04:30.840 or you know

01:04:31.620 they have a

01:04:32.200 child who's

01:04:33.200 schizophrenic

01:04:33.980 that's rough

01:04:34.920 man like

01:04:35.500 that's a 30

01:04:37.040 year trip

01:04:38.220 through hell

01:04:38.820 that

01:04:39.220 you know

01:04:39.940 but they were

01:04:40.400 able to manage

01:04:41.240 it nonetheless

01:04:41.700 or you know

01:04:42.340 maybe they have

01:04:42.760 a father with

01:04:43.300 Alzheimer's disease

01:04:44.080 or they have

01:04:44.840 a wife or

01:04:45.680 a husband with

01:04:46.240 alcoholism

01:04:46.920 or they have

01:04:47.640 some terrible

01:04:48.520 physiological

01:04:49.320 disease that

01:04:50.600 runs in the

01:04:51.140 you don't have

01:04:52.620 to scratch

01:04:53.260 underneath the

01:04:54.520 surface in most

01:04:55.320 people's lives

01:04:56.020 very far before

01:04:57.100 you hit some

01:04:57.700 fundamental

01:04:58.360 catastrophe

01:04:59.200 you know

01:05:00.200 and so if

01:05:01.240 you're comparing

01:05:01.720 yourself to other

01:05:02.480 people and you're

01:05:03.160 falling prey to envy

01:05:04.100 then you're making

01:05:05.040 a mistake because

01:05:05.840 you're doing only a

01:05:06.600 unidimensional analysis

01:05:07.720 you see this person

01:05:08.780 and they're sort of

01:05:09.660 stellar along that

01:05:10.720 one dimension

01:05:11.300 you think oh my god

01:05:12.220 wouldn't it be

01:05:12.640 wonderful to be like

01:05:13.460 that but you make

01:05:14.380 the assumption

01:05:14.960 immediately of

01:05:16.300 assuming that every

01:05:17.160 single dimension of

01:05:18.400 their life is like

01:05:19.520 that and it's just

01:05:20.320 that's just not

01:05:21.740 true and it would

01:05:23.080 actually be kind of

01:05:23.800 nice if it was true

01:05:24.720 because you'd sort of

01:05:25.720 hope that if some

01:05:26.920 person clambers up

01:05:28.080 the success hierarchy

01:05:29.240 high enough that

01:05:30.520 they take care of all

01:05:31.640 the problems in their

01:05:32.460 life it's like

01:05:33.200 that doesn't happen

01:05:34.520 and I'm not saying

01:05:36.120 that some people's

01:05:36.880 lives aren't worse

01:05:37.640 than other people's

01:05:38.920 because clearly they

01:05:40.020 are you know I mean

01:05:41.640 I've also worked with

01:05:42.820 people who were like

01:05:44.120 wiped out on every

01:05:45.580 dimension of life that

01:05:47.080 you can be wiped out

01:05:48.180 on virtually they're

01:05:49.300 still alive that was

01:05:50.340 about the best you

01:05:51.080 could say so I know

01:05:52.620 that there are there

01:05:53.620 are very much very big

01:05:55.120 differences in the

01:05:55.900 difficulties that people

01:05:56.820 face but it's not that

01:05:58.560 helpful to compare

01:05:59.440 yourself to other

01:06:00.260 people in that sense

01:06:01.760 because you don't know

01:06:02.940 enough about their

01:06:03.560 lives to see the

01:06:04.520 tragedy of their

01:06:05.460 existence and if you

01:06:06.460 knew the full what

01:06:08.400 would you say if you

01:06:09.140 knew the full story

01:06:10.120 your envy would be

01:06:12.760 your envy would be

01:06:15.680 attenuated substantially

01:06:17.120 that's how it is but

01:06:19.080 then but and so then

01:06:20.480 you might think well

01:06:21.180 who should you compare

01:06:22.000 yourself to then

01:06:22.980 because you kind of

01:06:23.960 need something to

01:06:24.860 compete with and you

01:06:25.580 need some target to

01:06:26.500 move towards it's like

01:06:27.320 comparing yourself to

01:06:28.980 who you are that's

01:06:29.900 that's a good one

01:06:30.740 because you're a lot

01:06:31.860 like you and you

01:06:33.240 have the same

01:06:33.700 strengths and

01:06:34.300 weaknesses that you

01:06:35.220 do and so you're

01:06:36.300 running a pretty

01:06:36.940 neck-and-neck

01:06:37.480 competition with

01:06:38.400 yourself and that

01:06:39.660 well it's also

01:06:40.520 practical because if

01:06:42.460 you're trying to

01:06:43.020 improve your life you

01:06:44.960 might say well what

01:06:46.420 should I use as a

01:06:47.560 measure of improvement

01:06:48.620 and what and what

01:06:50.060 should I use as a

01:06:50.660 baseline even for that

01:06:51.780 matter how do I

01:06:52.760 measure my starting

01:06:53.600 place it's like that's

01:06:54.740 easy where you are

01:06:56.220 now that's a good

01:06:57.600 starting point and

01:06:58.900 where could you go

01:07:00.800 and the answer would

01:07:01.520 be well somewhere

01:07:02.220 better than where you

01:07:03.080 are now and if you

01:07:04.260 can't get a clear

01:07:05.100 sense of what that

01:07:06.080 is you could at

01:07:07.120 least get a clear

01:07:07.680 sense of well where

01:07:09.500 I am has the

01:07:10.260 following inadequacies

01:07:11.560 that's pretty easy to

01:07:12.520 lay out and here's

01:07:13.560 some of the

01:07:14.180 inadequacies that are

01:07:15.220 my fault that's also

01:07:17.060 pretty easy to

01:07:17.740 determine and some

01:07:18.940 subset of those

01:07:19.920 inadequacies that are

01:07:21.020 your fault you could

01:07:22.520 conceivably do

01:07:23.620 something about and

01:07:24.580 might even be

01:07:25.220 inclined to and so

01:07:26.860 you could just do

01:07:27.500 something about them

01:07:28.400 and it's kind of

01:07:29.500 humble and minor

01:07:30.400 because you know

01:07:31.580 with your

01:07:32.540 characteristics and

01:07:33.800 talents you're not

01:07:34.460 going to do anything

01:07:35.100 too great and

01:07:35.980 wonderful when you

01:07:36.720 first start off but

01:07:37.640 you might be able to

01:07:38.260 adjust some little

01:07:39.360 peccadillo that you

01:07:40.760 are that you have a

01:07:42.180 proclivity for you

01:07:43.780 know and make some

01:07:44.620 minor improvement to

01:07:45.820 some some small

01:07:46.880 element of your life

01:07:47.860 and that would be

01:07:48.600 enough for the day

01:07:49.480 and if you do that

01:07:50.580 every day things get

01:07:52.760 better unbelievably

01:07:53.540 quickly it's a

01:07:54.480 hallmark of behavioral

01:07:55.500 psychology essentially

01:07:56.700 because one of the

01:07:57.360 things you do as a

01:07:58.100 behavioral psychologist

01:07:58.980 is say okay well

01:07:59.980 people come and talk

01:08:01.320 to you because

01:08:01.780 they're not their

01:08:02.640 lives aren't going

01:08:03.400 like they want them

01:08:04.360 to and sometimes

01:08:05.420 that's because they

01:08:05.960 have hard lives you

01:08:06.940 know not because

01:08:07.540 they're doing anything

01:08:08.180 particularly stupid

01:08:09.200 though sometimes that

01:08:10.340 plays into it say

01:08:11.920 okay well let's take

01:08:12.720 a good stock of

01:08:14.080 where you are let's

01:08:16.000 have some idea about

01:08:16.860 what things might be

01:08:18.240 like for you if they

01:08:19.120 were better we could

01:08:20.020 have a discussion about

01:08:21.020 that right well okay

01:08:22.000 it's not good can you

01:08:23.960 imagine how some

01:08:25.040 things might be better

01:08:26.320 you might be wrong

01:08:27.340 about it but at least

01:08:28.080 it gives us a target

01:08:29.160 and then like could

01:08:30.460 we put in place

01:08:31.600 small improvements

01:08:32.660 that you could make

01:08:33.620 that would lead you

01:08:34.440 in that direction

01:08:35.180 that you would

01:08:36.100 actually make

01:08:36.820 because that's also

01:08:37.640 a part of doing

01:08:39.020 the behavioral process

01:08:39.960 properly there's not

01:08:40.940 much sense in you

01:08:41.660 and I agreeing about

01:08:42.860 how you might do

01:08:43.680 something to improve

01:08:44.460 your life if you're

01:08:45.100 actually not going

01:08:45.820 to do it so it's a

01:08:47.540 good thing to know

01:08:48.100 when you're negotiating

01:08:48.900 with yourself and

01:08:49.760 with other people it's

01:08:50.720 you should negotiate

01:08:51.480 with yourself to do

01:08:52.680 better things that you

01:08:53.620 would do that's also

01:08:55.180 a humbling experience

01:08:56.960 because you're probably

01:08:58.620 not ready to leap out

01:09:00.160 and do magnificent

01:09:01.100 things but you might

01:09:02.080 like I said do

01:09:02.840 something trivial that

01:09:03.920 sort of trivial that

01:09:05.560 would get you on the

01:09:06.280 way and you have to

01:09:07.340 be humble enough to

01:09:08.060 accept that as

01:09:08.820 sufficient and but

01:09:10.280 what's so good is

01:09:11.020 that it actually is

01:09:11.760 sufficient that actually

01:09:12.740 works and so it's

01:09:14.180 better to compare

01:09:14.900 yourself to who you

01:09:15.900 were yesterday than

01:09:16.780 to someone than to

01:09:18.100 who someone else is

01:09:19.000 today and keeps the

01:09:20.180 envy and resentment

01:09:21.240 at bay too and that's

01:09:22.940 a good thing because

01:09:23.740 my sense is I've

01:09:25.700 watched how people

01:09:26.420 destroy themselves

01:09:27.320 across time and

01:09:28.380 here's three things to

01:09:29.640 engage in if you want

01:09:30.660 to destroy yourself

01:09:31.660 deceit that'll do you

01:09:34.620 in resentment that'll

01:09:37.300 do you in arrogance

01:09:40.180 that'll do you in you

01:09:42.300 get all three of those

01:09:43.080 working together you're

01:09:44.680 in a very dark spot and

01:09:46.300 so if you cease comparing

01:09:48.140 yourself to other people

01:09:49.300 and you can keep the envy

01:09:51.220 and resentment at bay

01:09:52.540 that's a really good

01:09:53.880 thing so I'm not going

01:09:57.960 to get through all 12

01:09:58.940 rules not by any stretch

01:10:00.200 of the imagination I

01:10:02.740 think I'll I'll go to

01:10:05.420 rule five and I'll close

01:10:06.920 with that and it's a

01:10:07.560 nice closing to where I

01:10:09.320 started anyway so that

01:10:10.700 works out quite nicely

01:10:11.600 rule five is don't let

01:10:13.000 your children do anything

01:10:13.880 that makes you dislike

01:10:14.820 them and it was a

01:10:16.100 meditation on disciplinary

01:10:18.320 strategies and not just

01:10:19.820 for kids because we're

01:10:21.380 all kids in some sense

01:10:22.600 you know although a lot

01:10:23.340 of us are you know

01:10:24.680 larger and older and

01:10:25.660 more beat up and and

01:10:26.800 bashed than your typical

01:10:27.860 child but that the

01:10:29.760 principles that work for

01:10:30.720 children tend to work

01:10:31.620 for adults too don't let

01:10:33.660 your children do anything

01:10:35.440 that makes you dislike

01:10:36.820 them well there's a

01:10:38.560 couple of pieces to that

01:10:39.880 one is you have to admit

01:10:42.440 that children can do

01:10:43.240 things that make you

01:10:44.080 dislike them that's hard

01:10:45.860 and then you have to

01:10:47.080 admit that you could

01:10:47.880 dislike your own

01:10:48.680 children now everyone

01:10:49.980 knows that but no one

01:10:51.740 likes to admit it so

01:10:53.240 it's better just to

01:10:54.040 admit it and to notice

01:10:55.520 that not only can

01:10:58.160 children do things that

01:10:59.060 make you dislike them

01:10:59.900 but your children can

01:11:00.940 and sometimes that's

01:11:02.480 because there's

01:11:02.940 something wrong with

01:11:03.660 you you know you're

01:11:04.980 too damn touchy or

01:11:06.040 you're too tyrannical

01:11:07.040 you're too short

01:11:07.720 tempered or whatever it

01:11:08.840 is and so your

01:11:10.260 children are doing

01:11:10.860 perfectly good things

01:11:11.820 and you get mad at

01:11:12.780 them and that's on

01:11:13.660 you and that's partly

01:11:14.680 why it's a good idea to

01:11:16.100 have someone else around

01:11:17.560 if you have children

01:11:18.580 which is you know

01:11:19.300 generally why societies

01:11:21.280 are in favor of

01:11:23.700 monogamous relationships

01:11:25.320 because that's good for

01:11:26.360 children and a lot of

01:11:27.540 it's because you have

01:11:28.920 faults and they'll

01:11:30.020 manifest themselves when

01:11:31.180 you have children and

01:11:32.020 your partner will also

01:11:33.900 have faults that will

01:11:34.920 manifest themselves when

01:11:36.100 when he has a child

01:11:37.680 let's say but if you put

01:11:38.880 the two of you together

01:11:39.720 your stupidities will

01:11:40.860 more or less cancel out

01:11:42.100 and so well and it's

01:11:45.760 it's it's it's a deep

01:11:46.620 principle actually you

01:11:48.200 know because the reason

01:11:49.060 that sex itself evolved

01:11:50.980 is because there's a

01:11:52.900 variety of reasons but

01:11:53.660 one of the reasons is is

01:11:54.640 that you have some

01:11:55.680 genetic inadequacies and

01:11:57.060 so does your your your

01:11:58.960 possible sexual partner

01:12:00.540 but the probability that

01:12:01.940 you have the same

01:12:02.840 inadequacies is very low

01:12:04.320 and so if you can put the

01:12:05.720 two of you together your

01:12:06.980 inadequacies won't compile

01:12:09.040 they'll cancel and the

01:12:10.900 same thing applies when

01:12:12.240 you when you form a

01:12:13.480 permanent relationship

01:12:14.220 with someone you're

01:12:15.440 going to have weaknesses

01:12:16.080 and so are they but

01:12:16.900 hopefully they won't

01:12:17.720 overlap too much and

01:12:18.620 that what that basically

01:12:19.460 means that is as a unit

01:12:21.100 mother and father let's

01:12:22.500 say as a unit you make

01:12:25.060 one reasonably sane

01:12:26.720 person and then that

01:12:28.660 reason hopefully and that

01:12:30.180 assumes that you can

01:12:30.960 communicate with each

01:12:31.860 other as well and all of

01:12:32.900 that but at least you

01:12:34.100 make one person who's

01:12:35.280 saner than either of you

01:12:36.560 would be alone at least

01:12:38.120 most of the time

01:12:38.960 and so and so that

01:12:41.500 that's very good for

01:12:42.340 children because then

01:12:43.140 they have a person a

01:12:45.620 composite person around

01:12:46.700 who's basically sane

01:12:48.220 and then you might say

01:12:49.480 well what what does a

01:12:50.580 sane person do for a

01:12:52.100 child and the answer

01:12:53.760 is act as a proxy for

01:12:57.020 the rest of the world

01:12:57.960 right this is a really

01:12:59.620 useful thing to know

01:13:00.560 what are you as a

01:13:01.720 parent you're a

01:13:03.860 judicious and merciful

01:13:05.960 proxy for every other

01:13:08.640 person why well when

01:13:11.660 you're when you have a

01:13:12.620 little child mostly the

01:13:13.660 only people they

01:13:14.300 interact with you know

01:13:15.380 fundamentally well first

01:13:16.560 their mother and then

01:13:17.400 maybe their mother and

01:13:18.360 their father and then

01:13:19.020 their family members but

01:13:19.940 it's it's a small number

01:13:21.300 of people to begin with

01:13:22.240 and then that number of

01:13:23.300 people grows and what

01:13:24.600 you want to do if you

01:13:25.840 have children is you want

01:13:26.680 to teach them how to get

01:13:27.440 along with other

01:13:27.960 children with other

01:13:28.680 people because they're

01:13:30.340 going to have to deal

01:13:30.840 with other people for

01:13:31.560 their whole life so your

01:13:32.940 fundamental goal as a

01:13:34.340 parent is to produce a

01:13:35.860 person that other

01:13:37.120 people really want to

01:13:38.580 have around and that

01:13:40.560 starts with with them

01:13:41.860 as children so there's

01:13:43.120 nothing more miserable

01:13:43.980 than a child who can't

01:13:45.120 find anyone to play

01:13:46.040 with right that is not

01:13:48.160 good it is seriously and

01:13:49.620 it's way worse than you

01:13:50.640 think actually because the

01:13:52.260 literature on this is

01:13:53.180 crystal clear so there

01:13:54.740 are kids who are hard to

01:13:56.080 socialize at two most of

01:13:57.840 them are male they're they

01:13:59.440 tend to kick hit bite and

01:14:01.060 steal two-year-olds now

01:14:02.840 not all two-year-olds are

01:14:03.800 like that but some of

01:14:04.640 them are and most of

01:14:05.640 the ones that are like

01:14:06.340 that are male most of

01:14:08.280 those kids are socialized

01:14:09.880 by the age of four because

01:14:11.780 they they're fortunate in

01:14:13.280 their parents and so

01:14:14.160 they're tough little ornery

01:14:15.500 kids but the parents hem

01:14:17.800 them in and teach them how

01:14:19.280 to behave regulate their

01:14:21.820 behavior and it isn't

01:14:23.020 oppressive tyranny that

01:14:24.460 it's manifesting as

01:14:25.560 discipline it's the

01:14:26.620 encouragement of

01:14:27.560 reciprocal interactions

01:14:29.140 play fair play fair take

01:14:32.360 turns share all of that as

01:14:34.800 the platform for

01:14:36.060 reciprocal play most of

01:14:37.940 those kids are socialized

01:14:39.500 by four then they make a

01:14:40.820 bunch of friends and then

01:14:42.540 the friends socialize them

01:14:43.800 for the rest of their life

01:14:44.780 so that's basically what

01:14:46.080 you're trying to do as a

01:14:47.000 parent is between with your

01:14:48.480 kids between the birth and

01:14:49.700 age four you want to turn

01:14:51.240 your child into some child

01:14:52.560 that other child or

01:14:53.380 children like and then

01:14:55.060 when they hit four they

01:14:56.560 make friends and then they

01:14:57.560 have friends forever and

01:14:58.940 the friends socialize them

01:15:00.460 and then you can hang

01:15:01.380 around in the background

01:15:02.220 judiciously refereeing you

01:15:05.200 know when the friendship

01:15:06.040 interactions go out of

01:15:07.580 kilter and that that's your

01:15:09.580 goal if you don't socialize

01:15:11.300 your child by the age of four

01:15:12.580 you will never socialize them

01:15:15.720 the research literature on

01:15:17.920 that is horribly clear so it's

01:15:22.300 crucially important and so

01:15:24.080 okay so why should you not let

01:15:27.040 your children do anything that

01:15:29.120 makes you dislike them well it's

01:15:31.940 annoying for you if your

01:15:33.740 children are annoying obviously

01:15:35.540 but we don't really care about

01:15:36.740 you in this discussion we care

01:15:38.740 about your child now if you and

01:15:41.120 your spouse make one reasonable

01:15:43.220 person and that reasonable

01:15:45.860 person dislikes that child then

01:15:49.280 other people are going to

01:15:50.200 dislike the child and that's a

01:15:52.720 really bad unless you want your

01:15:54.080 child not to be liked now why

01:15:55.980 would you want that well if your

01:15:57.480 child has no friends maybe

01:15:58.680 they'll never leave you and you

01:16:02.040 know that's a horrible thing and

01:16:03.400 that's the Freudian oedipal

01:16:04.840 nightmare and if you if you're a

01:16:06.620 therapist and you've worked with

01:16:07.720 people for a long time you see

01:16:09.060 people in that horrible situation a

01:16:10.720 lot they were emotionally

01:16:12.240 crippled by parents who did not

01:16:14.160 want them to be successful and

01:16:16.020 leave and that is one ugly game

01:16:18.560 and it's very very common I've I

01:16:21.100 never saw someone in my

01:16:22.480 therapeutic practice who came and

01:16:23.900 told me my parents made me too

01:16:26.240 independent that never happened not

01:16:29.460 even once so the opposite man that

01:16:33.060 happened a lot and it wasn't

01:16:35.060 pretty so so well so you know if

01:16:38.640 you're allowing your children to be

01:16:41.040 dislikable then you might ask

01:16:44.020 yourself exactly what the hell are

01:16:45.980 you up to and it might just be

01:16:47.580 ignorance and it might be

01:16:48.760 cowardice but it also might be

01:16:50.220 malevolence and those things are all

01:16:51.840 worth considering you don't let your

01:16:54.020 children do anything that makes you

01:16:55.960 dislike them because if you

01:16:57.240 dislike them despite the fact that

01:16:59.280 you love them and they're your

01:17:00.940 children then the probability that

01:17:02.960 other people will dislike them is

01:17:04.380 almost certain and that is just not a

01:17:07.200 good way to send them forward into

01:17:08.820 the world what you want to do

01:17:10.440 instead is to contend with them so

01:17:13.680 you're watching them and so when

01:17:15.240 they're acting in a manner that makes

01:17:17.240 you unbelievably happy that they're

01:17:19.420 around then you reward them for that

01:17:21.640 and you pat them on the head and you

01:17:22.940 tell them that they're doing a good

01:17:24.140 job and when they break the rules and

01:17:26.580 they whine and they and they and

01:17:28.680 they and they and they and they act

01:17:31.120 inappropriately and they refuse to

01:17:32.780 share and they have temper tantrums and

01:17:34.780 they won't act civilly and they won't

01:17:36.240 say thank you and they won't behave in a

01:17:38.340 manner that's attractive then you let

01:17:41.260 them know that that's a very bad idea and

01:17:43.820 you do that at a great level of detail

01:17:46.080 because then you make them extremely

01:17:47.600 socially fluent and then when you bring

01:17:50.340 them to the playground other kids

01:17:51.600 will flock around them and they will

01:17:52.980 have as fine a life as they can have

01:17:55.260 and that's part of teaching them to do

01:17:58.280 what I said at the beginning which is to

01:18:00.920 be courageous and to know how to engage

01:18:03.740 in reciprocal interactions and to be

01:18:05.960 brave and so that's why you make them

01:18:08.000 competent and that's why you don't

01:18:09.500 bother them when they're skateboarding for

01:18:11.440 example which is rule 11 you want to

01:18:13.780 encourage your children and you want to

01:18:15.300 make them competent and so you want to

01:18:17.340 you want to what would you say encourage

01:18:19.700 them to take their place in the world as

01:18:21.800 competent and desirable human beings and

01:18:25.460 that's partly also to teach them to stand

01:18:27.400 up straight with their shoulders back and

01:18:29.700 that's the end of the talk thank you very

01:18:32.940 much i like that ending it was very forest

01:18:46.380 gump that's all i have to say about that

01:18:48.880 well i am from northern alberta you know

01:18:51.620 all right here we go we got a whole bunch

01:18:54.540 of great stuff how do i recommend how do

01:18:58.260 you recommend that i introduce my left

01:19:00.680 leaning girlfriend to your content

01:19:03.640 well your best bet is probably to forbid

01:19:12.720 her from watching any of it

01:19:14.540 that'd be my guess if you want to get

01:19:20.300 someone to do something especially if

01:19:23.200 there's someone you have an intimate

01:19:24.200 relationship with it to forbid it

01:19:26.180 completely that's that's that's a sure

01:19:28.200 bet man so there's an enforced monogamy

01:19:31.400 joke here somewhere yeah yeah yeah um i

01:19:35.600 look i have a lecture called a left-wing

01:19:37.500 case for free speech so that's a good

01:19:40.100 introduction because somebody who's left

01:19:42.540 leaning isn't going to object to that in

01:19:44.800 all probability so you never know but i

01:19:47.780 think that's a good way in and it's not

01:19:50.060 like you know i already made the case

01:19:51.900 tonight for example it's not like i don't

01:19:53.580 see the utility of the left the left

01:19:56.860 prop when the left is constituted

01:19:59.160 properly they provide a voice for

01:20:01.440 people who are dispossessed by

01:20:02.760 hierarchies you need someone to do that

01:20:05.960 because people get dispossessed by

01:20:07.640 hierarchies all the time and so you need

01:20:11.780 part of the political distribution and

01:20:14.500 this is actually the case for people

01:20:16.020 temperamentally is to lay out a critique

01:20:19.220 of power structures now if you have any

01:20:23.120 sense you can criticize something without

01:20:25.080 holding it in absolute contempt you know

01:20:28.320 and so that's why i also make a case for

01:20:30.820 hierarchies we need hierarchies but they

01:20:33.780 can degenerate and they do and they do

01:20:35.880 dispossess people so we have to deal with

01:20:38.900 that and part of the eternal dialogue

01:20:40.880 between the conservatives and the

01:20:42.320 liberals is well is the hierarchy healthy

01:20:45.540 and performing its proper function or has

01:20:48.400 it become corrupt and and and is too too

01:20:51.360 steep and and and unnegotiable or non

01:20:54.680 non-negotiable you can't move in it and

01:20:56.680 does it need to be does its health need to

01:20:59.680 be restored so anyways the more specific

01:21:03.320 answer is try that try the uh left-wing

01:21:07.000 case for free speech lecture because that

01:21:09.400 would be a good intro and and perhaps one

01:21:12.120 she wouldn't object to and then you know

01:21:14.040 if that doesn't work you can find a

01:21:16.400 different girlfriend

01:21:17.040 i got a nice bonus applause on that

01:21:26.920 what do you believe is the largest

01:21:31.100 detriment justin trudeau could

01:21:35.220 potentially cause canada this is also

01:21:39.000 where people demand that you run for

01:21:40.540 prime minister so i think i think the i

01:21:50.820 think the biggest permanent danger is to

01:21:53.160 let the judiciary become too active in in

01:21:56.420 in the legislative process that would

01:21:58.820 really be hard on the country and that's

01:22:00.260 happening a lot as far as i can tell

01:22:02.460 like increasingly the legal system and

01:22:05.280 the judiciary have taken it upon

01:22:07.580 themselves to play the legislative role

01:22:10.220 and you know i think that's a consequence

01:22:12.820 at least in part of the introduction of

01:22:15.800 the bill of rights under the previous

01:22:17.220 trudeau which i think was a big mistake

01:22:19.000 and which we're going to pay for for a

01:22:20.620 long time but insofar as trudeau what

01:22:25.940 would you say abandons his legislative

01:22:27.980 responsibilities and also doesn't hem in

01:22:32.060 the activist judiciary that's the that's

01:22:34.320 the longest term danger that i see for

01:22:37.380 canada so we'll see the and everything

01:22:41.640 else can be undone if necessary but that

01:22:46.200 would not be good so when the last time

01:22:50.080 you got really drunk

01:22:51.340 it was about eight months ago i was with

01:22:58.400 a friend in in in la novelist that i know

01:23:01.920 there and he he one of the characters in

01:23:05.460 one of his books uh his the character's

01:23:08.060 name is even smoke and he's an aficionado

01:23:11.520 of rare vodka and one of the consequences

01:23:15.080 of that is that this novelist is now

01:23:17.260 flooded with rare vodkas from all over

01:23:20.220 the world because the vodka manufacturers

01:23:22.340 are hoping hoping that he might mention

01:23:24.500 their vodka in one of his books and and

01:23:27.540 he doesn't have a propensity to do that

01:23:29.240 but he's quite appreciative of all the

01:23:30.800 rare vodka and so he made me a lot of

01:23:33.280 martinis and um and i had a great time

01:23:37.200 although i was not very healthy when i

01:23:39.400 did that and i was so just about dead the

01:23:42.300 next day that it was it was absolutely

01:23:44.780 painful and i don't think it was worth it

01:23:47.360 but but it was close man it was close

01:23:50.380 as a high school teacher and department

01:23:56.520 head of social sciences i have an

01:23:58.720 opportunity to have a voice that matters

01:24:00.800 how do i help my department clean their

01:24:04.020 room god that's a hard question man

01:24:15.660 well i think i think what you have to do

01:24:23.540 in in a situation like that when you're

01:24:25.840 trying to orient a group

01:24:27.820 the the best way to orient a group is to

01:24:33.400 begin with to begin by orienting yourself

01:24:35.880 you know if you have a job there's going

01:24:38.720 to be some things about the job that

01:24:40.140 really grind against your conscience and

01:24:42.500 that's especially the case if the job

01:24:44.680 starts to tilt in an ideological direction

01:24:47.840 or in a corrupt direction and you know

01:24:50.960 usually what happens is the job tilts a

01:24:53.360 little bit and people don't say anything

01:24:54.860 and then because they don't say anything

01:24:57.140 the people who tilted it get a little

01:24:58.660 braver and they tilt it a little more

01:25:00.340 and then the people who didn't say

01:25:02.080 anything have already learned not to

01:25:03.480 say anything and they're a little more

01:25:04.680 intimidated so they really don't say

01:25:06.080 anything then it tilts a little bit more

01:25:07.740 and so forth until the whole thing is

01:25:09.680 completely out of kilter and that can

01:25:11.400 happen that does happen all the time and

01:25:13.380 it can be catastrophic that's certainly

01:25:15.200 what happened in the terrible

01:25:17.180 totalitarian communist regimes in places

01:25:19.460 like russia right i mean things started

01:25:21.660 to go out of hand and people didn't say

01:25:23.220 anything and by the time well they just

01:25:25.220 got so out of hand that it was beyond

01:25:26.700 comprehension and no one could ever say

01:25:28.380 anything true about anything ever and

01:25:30.780 that was hell and that's what people

01:25:32.500 lived in and so what i would say is if

01:25:36.360 you're trying to clean up an

01:25:37.320 organization the first thing you want to

01:25:39.500 do is have a discussion with your own

01:25:41.900 conscience and figure out what it is

01:25:44.300 that the organization is doing that you

01:25:46.040 just can't tolerate in good conscience

01:25:49.080 you know and you can think about that

01:25:51.260 like i said already i mentioned already

01:25:53.660 that one of the worst that there are

01:25:55.720 three things that can really do you in

01:25:57.160 in life

01:25:57.600 it was resentment that was one

01:26:00.500 arrogance

01:26:01.220 arrogance means you think you already

01:26:03.740 know

01:26:04.100 and and deceit

01:26:06.740 lying those three things man they're

01:26:09.400 deadly

01:26:09.740 but resentment is actually unbelievably

01:26:11.820 useful

01:26:12.420 that's that's the thing that's quite

01:26:14.140 cool especially if you're an agreeable

01:26:15.620 person by the way who

01:26:16.760 tends to put other people before you

01:26:19.180 because that's sort of the definition

01:26:20.440 of being agreeable it's a personality

01:26:22.280 trait your resentment is actually a

01:26:24.940 really good friend because if you get

01:26:26.500 resentful about something it only

01:26:28.320 there's only one of two things that

01:26:29.920 can mean

01:26:30.320 one is you should grow the hell up and

01:26:33.380 stop whining

01:26:34.080 and the second is you're being

01:26:37.240 oppressed and taken advantage of and

01:26:38.900 you have something to say

01:26:39.900 and so then you got to figure out which

01:26:41.960 of those it is you know and hopefully

01:26:43.340 you have somebody around you can talk to

01:26:44.860 and you can say look this is really

01:26:46.100 irritating me at work like I'm it's I'm

01:26:48.340 finding it difficult to do my job

01:26:50.500 without always being angry or I'm I

01:26:53.180 find it difficult to be in this

01:26:54.440 relationship without always being

01:26:56.040 angry

01:26:56.380 is it me or is there something rotten

01:27:00.280 here that I need to do something

01:27:02.840 about

01:27:03.140 and that's really worth sorting out

01:27:04.960 because if it's you well then maybe

01:27:06.320 you could fix that and and if it's the

01:27:08.320 situation well then maybe you have

01:27:09.960 some things that you have to say

01:27:11.420 and so the first thing you do when

01:27:13.440 you're trying to clean up an

01:27:14.580 organization is to figure out well

01:27:16.100 what is it that you find intolerable

01:27:17.900 about the organization what makes you

01:27:19.900 resentful then you got to go have a

01:27:21.780 discussion with somebody say look

01:27:23.080 here's all the things about this

01:27:24.380 organization that are just making it

01:27:27.020 hard for me to do anything but go to

01:27:29.000 work and make things worse because if

01:27:31.180 you're really resentful at work it's

01:27:32.640 not like you're going to do a good job

01:27:34.100 you can easily get to the point where

01:27:35.500 the primary the primary function you

01:27:37.960 have at work is sabotage right that's

01:27:40.940 a good indication that something's

01:27:42.400 going wrong so you need to talk this

01:27:46.000 through with someone or think it

01:27:47.360 through which is harder but maybe you

01:27:49.280 can talk it through with somebody

01:27:50.220 have to figure out what is it about

01:27:51.580 this situation that's intolerable

01:27:53.280 what makes it intolerable you got to get

01:27:56.040 a detailed analysis of that and then

01:27:57.680 you have to think okay which of those

01:28:00.360 intolerable things could I start to

01:28:03.280 address carefully you know at without

01:28:06.160 too much cost to to me or to anyone

01:28:09.100 else because you probably can't go

01:28:10.840 after the whole problem at once you

01:28:14.060 know if it if it's if it's deeply

01:28:15.860 rooted rot you're going to have to

01:28:17.400 start on the periphery think okay well

01:28:20.020 are there other people that I can are

01:28:22.320 there other people that I know who I

01:28:24.780 think might be equally annoyed about

01:28:26.760 this set of occurrences could I talk to

01:28:29.300 them could we figure out a potential

01:28:30.780 alternative could we start to talk about

01:28:33.000 it and then you generate allies you

01:28:35.600 generate people who are who are well

01:28:39.160 who have the same problem and who

01:28:40.520 might be willing to take somewhat of a

01:28:41.980 risk to fix it and then you expand that

01:28:44.860 outward you know so you tell yourself

01:28:48.340 the truth about your situation you make

01:28:50.540 a strategic plan that's that would be

01:28:52.880 that's dedicated to make things better

01:28:54.660 and you start to communicate that

01:28:56.420 carefully to people that you think might

01:28:58.380 be suffering from the same problem and

01:29:00.820 then hopefully that can scale upward and

01:29:03.820 and that can really work like I've seen

01:29:05.560 people turn pretty corrupt organizations

01:29:08.180 around with with caution and truth you

01:29:11.660 know but they had to think through the

01:29:13.280 situation very carefully and that's the

01:29:15.400 situation you're in but it's a good

01:29:18.300 situation to be in in some sense because

01:29:20.180 it can make you tough and smart to

01:29:22.200 undertake something like that right

01:29:24.500 because you have to be real awake to to

01:29:26.720 manage that kind of improvement you know

01:29:29.080 and the other thing too is if you're

01:29:30.580 skeptical about something and it's

01:29:32.100 bothering you this is what I used to tell

01:29:34.920 my students all the time if they had a

01:29:36.420 question it's like you have a question

01:29:38.600 you think it's stupid but if you and it

01:29:40.760 might be and if you weren't paying

01:29:41.920 attention it's probably stupid and then

01:29:43.460 if you feel stupid when you ask it it

01:29:45.440 serves you right because you weren't

01:29:46.520 paying attention but assuming you were

01:29:49.400 paying attention if you have a question

01:29:51.920 it's probably not because you're

01:29:53.720 stupider than everyone else if you have

01:29:56.180 the question so does everyone else then

01:29:57.920 then they're afraid to ask it but if you

01:29:59.420 ask it everybody will be happy and so and

01:30:01.520 and this is the thing in a rotten

01:30:03.140 organization too is that if something's

01:30:04.960 really bugging you assuming that you're

01:30:06.700 not too pathological and you've learned

01:30:08.300 to play well with others then there's an

01:30:10.580 unbelievably high probability that's

01:30:12.540 bothering almost everyone and no one's

01:30:14.120 saying anything about it and so then if

01:30:16.000 you come out and you say something about

01:30:17.360 it carefully you'll often find that you

01:30:19.180 have way more supporters than detractors

01:30:21.800 and that's very very frequently the case

01:30:24.420 you know and if you don't well then

01:30:26.620 maybe you're wrong or maybe you just

01:30:28.540 maybe you're also very sensitive and

01:30:30.340 you notice when things go wrong before

01:30:31.860 other people probably though you're

01:30:34.340 wrong so you know if you don't get

01:30:37.640 support if you're careful and truthful

01:30:40.540 and you don't get support well then

01:30:42.140 maybe something else is wrong but

01:30:43.580 generally you will and so I would also

01:30:46.280 say the other thing that's worth

01:30:47.520 knowing is that corrupt ideologues are

01:30:51.540 cowardly and weak and so if you stand

01:30:55.080 up to them and you don't apologize when

01:30:56.780 they go after you they will go away and

01:30:59.400 you will win but you have to be able to

01:31:02.020 withstand that initial flash of outrage

01:31:04.920 and if you apologize during that flash of

01:31:07.440 outrage you are done and that isn't to

01:31:11.140 say you should never apologize but you

01:31:12.940 should never apologize to a mob you can

01:31:16.280 apologize to a person you know and you

01:31:18.760 can tell them what you did wrong and how

01:31:20.140 you would fix it in the future and then

01:31:22.320 hopefully they will forgive you but you

01:31:23.720 can't apologize to a mob and you

01:31:25.500 shouldn't so if you're going to take on

01:31:27.380 the responsibility of trying to

01:31:28.780 straighten straighten something out and

01:31:30.580 you're going to say what you think then

01:31:32.220 be prepared for the backlash and don't

01:31:34.660 get too terrified and don't apologize if

01:31:37.380 you don't get too terrified and you don't

01:31:39.140 apologize it'll probably blow over in a

01:31:40.980 couple of weeks or maybe a couple of

01:31:42.500 months and you'll live through it but if

01:31:44.620 you if you lose your nerve and you

01:31:47.040 apologize you are so dead so don't do

01:31:51.060 that that's a mistake when you don't

01:31:53.360 backtrack once you've started that's the

01:31:55.760 thing you know so is that the beauty of

01:31:59.620 sort of surviving all the hit pieces that

01:32:02.060 they've put out on you over the past

01:32:03.280 couple months you never apologize for

01:32:05.520 anything you may have clarified something

01:32:07.160 but you survived and just by surviving

01:32:10.200 all of these people get a little more room

01:32:13.320 to to stand up and say well so far so

01:32:15.700 good you know I've been fortunate because

01:32:17.280 I haven't said anything fatally stupid

01:32:19.180 yet apparently so that you know I I

01:32:22.980 think being careful with what you say

01:32:25.720 also really matters but yeah it's like

01:32:27.920 well that's what I've learned over the

01:32:33.000 last couple of years is that you say

01:32:35.660 something it's controversial there'll be a

01:32:38.100 real flash of outrage and a tremendous

01:32:41.200 amount of venom directed at you and it's

01:32:44.980 very easy to lose your nerve then and

01:32:47.980 but if you do and you apologize the

01:32:51.280 thing is is that the mob isn't the same

01:32:53.260 people a that's the thing that's so

01:32:54.800 interesting so let's say you say

01:32:56.160 something and a mob comes after you and

01:32:58.780 so you're thinking oh well that isn't

01:33:00.680 good and maybe I'm wrong because look a

01:33:02.280 whole mob is coming after me and you

01:33:04.100 know maybe that's worth thinking about so

01:33:06.300 then you apologize maybe that mob is

01:33:08.560 satisfied with your apology but then

01:33:10.340 there's another mob that will mob you

01:33:11.880 because you apologized and it's a

01:33:13.740 different mob but you don't care

01:33:15.060 because one mob with pitchforks is the

01:33:17.040 same as the next mob with pitchforks as

01:33:18.880 far as you're concerned and so because

01:33:20.980 you can't have a dialogue with them

01:33:22.900 this is why groups don't have rights as

01:33:24.900 far as I'm concerned groups don't have

01:33:27.120 rights because they don't have

01:33:28.160 responsibilities you can't hold a group

01:33:30.440 accountable for anything so obviously a

01:33:32.620 group can't have rights because rights

01:33:34.260 and responsibilities are the mirror

01:33:35.880 image of one another and so well it's

01:33:38.940 why you can't have a discussion with a

01:33:40.720 mob is the mob morphs and changes and

01:33:43.360 get rid of one mob by apologizing you

01:33:46.020 just get another one you see this

01:33:47.520 happening on Twitter all the time now

01:33:49.000 you know what happened with Scarlett

01:33:50.260 Johansson recently right she was going

01:33:52.480 to she she was an actress is an actress

01:33:54.780 and was going to play a trans woman I

01:33:57.380 think right and you know the Twitter

01:34:00.340 mob said actresses can't play roles that

01:34:03.300 they aren't which seems a bit seems like

01:34:10.640 pushing it a little bit to me and you

01:34:14.180 know she backed off and and that was

01:34:16.080 that was exactly the wrong thing to do

01:34:18.000 I know why she did it and all of that

01:34:19.520 but it was the wrong thing to do you

01:34:21.940 don't back back down to an idiot mob

01:34:24.220 because then you get weak and they get

01:34:28.160 stronger and I don't know if you want to

01:34:30.740 get weaker when you're being chased by a

01:34:32.340 mob and you certainly don't want it to

01:34:34.460 get stronger so you know put your staff

01:34:38.560 in the sand carefully and don't abandon

01:34:41.620 your post

01:34:42.340 is there any part of your life that you

01:34:54.720 miss before this newfound thing I have

01:34:59.720 moments of thoughtless nostalgia but you

01:35:08.100 know I did these biblical lectures last

01:35:09.980 year and I concentrated in the last part

01:35:15.240 on the Abrahamic stories and they were

01:35:17.540 really interesting to me I didn't know

01:35:20.540 them that well before I started doing

01:35:22.120 the lectures although I knew the first

01:35:24.240 part of the biblical stories quite well

01:35:25.980 and what I was really struck by in those

01:35:28.700 like in those stories was how much they

01:35:32.420 were adventure stories I didn't really

01:35:34.100 realize that you know with Abraham

01:35:36.040 himself for example he was called forward

01:35:37.920 by God to go out into the world even

01:35:39.560 though he was kind of old and stayed in

01:35:41.440 his mother's basement for far too long and

01:35:44.140 because he's like 80 when he finally went

01:35:46.400 out into the world and you know he's called

01:35:50.360 forward to an adventure by by God and he

01:35:54.640 goes out into the world to have his

01:35:55.920 adventure and the first thing he runs

01:35:58.100 into is a famine and then a tyranny and

01:36:00.540 then people try to take his wife and you

01:36:02.720 got to think he's thinking Jesus I just

01:36:04.480 should have stayed in the tent man because

01:36:06.140 what what's this you know and but what I

01:36:10.380 liked about those stories was their

01:36:12.460 essential insistence that life is an

01:36:16.800 adventure and and not a safe adventure

01:36:19.700 well what's a safe adventure that's not an

01:36:21.820 adventure right that's that's a safe space

01:36:24.720 that's not an adventure and life is an

01:36:27.420 adventure and so you you play your cards

01:36:30.880 let's say and the game unfolds and as it

01:36:33.260 unfolds you let go of those parts of

01:36:35.120 yourself that aren't along for the

01:36:36.640 adventure and so I don't miss my previous

01:36:41.380 life because I'm in for the adventure you

01:36:46.380 know and it would be ungrateful to pine

01:36:50.600 for the for the past especially when I've

01:36:54.080 been granted it's been stressful and

01:36:57.100 and demanding but that what that's not so

01:37:00.960 bad for things to be stressful and

01:37:02.500 demanding I mean life is stressful and

01:37:04.140 demanding for God's sake it's like that's

01:37:06.080 just how it is and but I've been

01:37:08.720 rewarded in all of that by these

01:37:10.700 unbelievable opportunities and so it would

01:37:13.960 be ungrateful in the extreme to pretend

01:37:17.600 that well you know all of this notoriety and

01:37:21.880 opportunity well it's pretty weighty and

01:37:23.960 it would be nice just to go back to the

01:37:26.680 sort of peaceful life I had before like

01:37:28.560 someone should just slap me if I say that

01:37:30.880 you know because because it's ungrateful

01:37:33.340 it's and it has been very challenging and

01:37:37.220 demanding and dangerous because I've been

01:37:40.060 in a situation although it's less the case

01:37:42.220 now but I've been in a situation for

01:37:43.960 about two years where if I said anything

01:37:46.020 stupid I was dead and that and luckily

01:37:50.460 that didn't happen and that meant that I

01:37:52.700 had to be awake a lot and careful but the

01:37:56.880 consequences of that are so overwhelmingly

01:38:00.100 positive that I'd have to be an ungrateful

01:38:03.580 fool to wish for anything other than what I

01:38:06.500 have you know and well you've been part of

01:38:09.020 this and you've watched these lectures and

01:38:10.860 like there is positive a thing not only as

01:38:14.080 ever has ever happened to me but really as

01:38:16.100 I could imagine and so that's great and so

01:38:19.200 and thank all of you for coming and

01:38:21.200 participating in this and all of that because

01:38:23.120 it's an amazing thing you know

01:38:24.640 and I should also say I'm also fortunate you

01:38:32.020 know because my wife travels with me and

01:38:35.000 she's also in for the adventure and she just

01:38:37.360 let go of her old life completely just let it

01:38:40.000 go and she's on the road with me and helping

01:38:44.040 me out and planning and helping me be a

01:38:47.560 reasonable person the two of us together

01:38:49.760 make one reasonable person as I said

01:38:52.180 before and you know she's I've also really

01:38:54.600 been struck by her ability to just let go

01:38:57.840 that's sacrifice right that's what a

01:38:59.880 sacrifice is in part is to let go of the

01:39:02.360 parts of you that are no longer useful in

01:39:04.580 your current endeavor just let go and let go

01:39:07.220 and let go and let go and that's a good

01:39:09.320 thing not to look backwards or you'll be

01:39:12.180 turned into a pillar of salt right

01:39:15.360 what do you think is the greatest negative

01:39:26.260 consequence of demographic group disparity

01:39:30.020 it's probably the generation of envy and

01:39:34.420 hatred I would say that's the biggest

01:39:36.740 danger the second biggest danger is

01:39:40.060 probably the absolute poverty that might

01:39:42.800 be associated with it and then the third

01:39:45.080 biggest danger would probably be the

01:39:46.460 relative poverty but I think I think I think the

01:39:52.080 biggest existential danger is probably the

01:39:54.160 envy and hatred that it generates so because

01:39:57.480 that's that's very very dangerous so that's

01:40:03.760 what it looks like to me

01:40:05.160 I guess that there's one other thing though I

01:40:09.600 guess I don't exactly like the question and

01:40:13.100 the questions ill form to some degree because

01:40:15.620 demographic sounds like something but it's a

01:40:20.920 it's a it's a box into which you can put a

01:40:23.800 very large number of things in fact an indefinite

01:40:27.360 number of things and so no matter how

01:40:31.640 egalitarian the world is there are there will

01:40:35.620 inevitably be dimensions along which people

01:40:39.120 radically differ there's no getting rid of

01:40:42.340 the inequality and so you say demographics and

01:40:46.160 you think well age sex ethnicity race it's like

01:40:49.300 yeah those are the four that everyone is noticing at

01:40:53.080 the moment but they're not even necessarily the

01:40:55.260 four canonical demographic differences

01:40:57.880 attractiveness height health intelligence

01:41:02.580 education etc etc prowess talent and there's

01:41:12.180 multiple talents so people differ people can be

01:41:16.620 grouped into an indefinite number of groups and

01:41:20.560 there's going to be profound differences in the

01:41:23.960 performance privilege and oppression along every one of

01:41:28.380 those divisions and so that's why I think that it's

01:41:32.180 the envy and the hatred that's the worst because the

01:41:35.320 consequence of breaking up the world like that and

01:41:38.240 then viewing the inequalities is that that's going to

01:41:43.300 generate envy and hatred and that'll take everyone down so

01:41:47.540 one of the things I figured out I've been writing the preface to the 50th

01:41:54.540 anniversary edition of the gulag archipelago and so I've been working on

01:41:59.320 that for about the last month and I've been trying to figure out why the

01:42:03.140 Russian revolution went so wrong so quick because it went wrong right away

01:42:07.640 even though hypothetically it was motivated by the highest of ideals

01:42:11.040 figured something out about that too the highest of ideals requires the most

01:42:15.580 extreme sacrifices and justifies them right

01:42:17.940 the the more what would you say the more stellar the target the more the

01:42:23.380 sacrifice is justified

01:42:24.740 okay but you could flip that so then the question is well who or what do you

01:42:30.820 sacrifice

01:42:31.420 and the answer might be well all the people that are in the way

01:42:35.880 well then you might say well maybe you don't have any utopian vision

01:42:40.980 you just have

01:42:42.020 you've just generated an excuse to sacrifice everyone who's in your way

01:42:46.700 and so that's part of the reason why the Russian revolution went wrong

01:42:51.280 it's because we think oh the utopian vision

01:42:53.260 oh that justifies the sacrifice

01:42:55.500 it's like yeah if you assume that the people who hold the utopian vision are

01:42:59.780 saints

01:43:00.580 and that all that's motivating them is the purity of their vision

01:43:05.580 and that they're actually only after what they're after and they're only after

01:43:10.020 that for good things

01:43:11.320 it's like you know anyone like that

01:43:13.300 no

01:43:14.460 and if you think you're someone like that then

01:43:17.280 then you're definitely not

01:43:19.260 so maybe the utopian vision is generated to justify the murder rather than the other way around

01:43:27.240 and I really think that that's I really think there's something to that

01:43:31.080 and then I was thinking too

01:43:33.200 well we need a vision of the future to work towards

01:43:37.540 and we have to make sacrifices to to make that vision a reality

01:43:43.480 you know you have to make sacrifices to improve your life

01:43:46.260 everyone knows that

01:43:47.200 well so then what's the wrong what's wrong with sacrifice on a mass scale

01:43:52.880 well the question is something has to be sacrificed

01:43:57.540 what's the proper answer to what should be sacrificed

01:43:59.900 and the proper answer seems to be you not them

01:44:03.220 that's why I think the Judeo-Christian substructure that our society fits into is correct

01:44:09.900 because what it demands is individual sacrifice

01:44:12.540 it's you that's not good enough

01:44:14.860 it's your fault you should improve yourself

01:44:18.240 you don't sacrifice other people

01:44:20.540 if it's someone else if it's the class enemy

01:44:24.740 if it's someone else

01:44:26.220 then your vision is suspect

01:44:29.020 and so and that's all buried in that question hey

01:44:32.540 because it assumes that you can divide people into groups

01:44:35.960 that you can get the division right

01:44:38.400 that you can divide them into the haves and the have-nots

01:44:41.100 and that that fundamental inequality is somehow unjust

01:44:46.740 now sometimes there is injustice

01:44:49.460 but it's a very dangerous way of parsing up the world

01:44:53.760 so then the perfect follow-up which I was going to get to anyway

01:44:57.060 can individualism then go too far

01:45:00.200 oh well definitely

01:45:03.040 but I'm not talking about individualism

01:45:06.820 fundamentally

01:45:08.040 I'm talking about individual responsibility

01:45:11.220 you know

01:45:13.100 so that's different

01:45:14.700 because individualism is often

01:45:16.520 your privileges and your rights

01:45:18.500 you know and that's you

01:45:19.640 often our conversation about individualism

01:45:21.820 especially in the last 60 years

01:45:23.080 has all been about our individual rights

01:45:24.740 well that can go way too far

01:45:26.180 that's just narcissism if it's pushed too far

01:45:28.720 say no forget about that

01:45:30.580 individual responsibility

01:45:32.760 can that go

01:45:34.240 can that go too far

01:45:35.720 well usually it doesn't

01:45:36.920 because you know

01:45:37.620 you don't meet someone very often

01:45:39.480 you say that person's just too responsible

01:45:41.380 but that can happen

01:45:43.860 that can happen

01:45:45.120 you know because

01:45:46.280 it's okay to share the burden

01:45:49.520 right

01:45:50.760 you don't have to do

01:45:51.700 you should try to do everything you can yourself

01:45:54.000 you should try to do that

01:45:55.720 shoulder as much responsibility as you can

01:45:57.980 but what's important is the you can part of that

01:46:01.540 you know and I've tested this with a lot of my clients

01:46:04.040 so one of the populations of people I worked with

01:46:06.380 were people who were very very

01:46:07.740 they were stellar lawyers

01:46:09.160 in very high functioning firms

01:46:12.060 and so they were people who were working

01:46:13.620 70 or 80 hours a week

01:46:15.540 flat out all the time

01:46:16.840 and they were kind of wired for that

01:46:18.500 they wouldn't have never been in a position like that

01:46:21.100 or what would you have

01:46:23.080 had the ambition for a position like that

01:46:25.340 unless that was the sort of people they were

01:46:27.300 very very conscientious

01:46:28.800 and the question is

01:46:30.380 well

01:46:30.600 how much should I work

01:46:32.540 well and part of the answer is

01:46:34.960 well you should work flat out

01:46:36.280 well okay what does that mean

01:46:38.060 well

01:46:39.260 do you work yourself to exhaustion today

01:46:41.440 well

01:46:42.180 that doesn't

01:46:43.100 bode very well for tomorrow

01:46:44.400 so no

01:46:46.440 maybe you work yourself

01:46:47.480 to exhaustion over a week

01:46:49.200 but then you've got the next week to deal with

01:46:51.120 and so one of the things that I

01:46:52.700 worked out with these people

01:46:54.880 who were prone to take excess responsibility

01:46:57.580 was

01:46:58.760 how much can you tolerate

01:47:01.620 if you're playing an iterated game

01:47:03.060 that sort of goes back to the discussion

01:47:04.900 we had at the beginning of this lecture

01:47:06.480 about you know

01:47:07.100 the fact that things iterate

01:47:08.320 and so

01:47:08.840 the ethic that emerges

01:47:10.200 has to be an iterated ethic

01:47:11.940 it has to work across situations

01:47:13.500 you shouldn't work so hard

01:47:15.220 that you wear yourself out

01:47:16.540 because

01:47:17.940 then you can't work

01:47:19.340 I mean there's other reasons

01:47:21.100 you shouldn't do it as well

01:47:22.120 but you can't work any harder

01:47:23.900 you can't take any more responsibility

01:47:25.680 than you can sustain

01:47:27.020 and so there's a bit of mercy in that

01:47:29.340 and so even individual responsibility

01:47:30.900 can go too far

01:47:32.100 but it usually doesn't

01:47:33.860 and so

01:47:34.940 generally individualism

01:47:36.660 goes too far

01:47:37.640 because people

01:47:38.340 harp on about their rights

01:47:39.940 and their privileges

01:47:40.660 so you counteract that

01:47:42.580 and you say

01:47:42.900 no forget about that

01:47:43.940 the only reason you have rights

01:47:45.740 to begin with

01:47:46.340 in some sense

01:47:46.960 is so that you can bear

01:47:47.840 your responsibility properly

01:47:49.320 and then if you do that

01:47:50.840 you work for yourself

01:47:51.860 but you also work for your family

01:47:53.540 at the same time

01:47:54.840 and you work for your family

01:47:56.300 and yourself

01:47:57.020 at the same time

01:47:58.460 as you're working for your community

01:47:59.880 so that kind of binds

01:48:01.420 the individual

01:48:02.300 into the collective

01:48:03.820 in the proper manner

01:48:05.200 and then you don't take

01:48:06.640 more responsibility

01:48:07.500 than you can

01:48:08.420 than you can

01:48:10.060 sustainably bear

01:48:11.800 and that means that

01:48:13.180 you're being fair to yourself

01:48:14.400 and that

01:48:15.780 then that also means

01:48:16.620 that you can be productive

01:48:17.480 over the longest period of time

01:48:19.080 so that works out

01:48:20.260 quite nicely

01:48:20.900 what I did with

01:48:21.980 most of these lawyer types

01:48:23.300 what I did with them

01:48:24.920 usually was

01:48:25.860 they couldn't work

01:48:26.940 fewer hours a day

01:48:27.820 because that just

01:48:28.360 wasn't in the cards

01:48:29.080 if you have a really

01:48:29.760 demanding job

01:48:30.700 working fewer hours a day

01:48:32.520 that ain't

01:48:33.540 that ain't gonna happen

01:48:34.420 but what we would often do

01:48:36.320 is schedule

01:48:36.900 four day weekends

01:48:38.080 three months in advance

01:48:39.280 you know

01:48:40.080 fairly regularly

01:48:40.920 say no

01:48:41.660 you gotta take

01:48:42.240 four days off

01:48:43.020 schedule it out

01:48:43.720 so far that you can

01:48:44.780 and then

01:48:45.760 what we did was

01:48:46.580 track their billable hours

01:48:47.840 which is an indication

01:48:48.800 of their productivity

01:48:49.660 and almost inevitably

01:48:51.160 what happened was

01:48:52.060 the more time they took off

01:48:53.700 in vacation

01:48:54.700 the higher their billable hours became

01:48:57.020 they actually got more productive

01:48:58.480 by backing off a bit

01:48:59.740 and so that was a good example

01:49:01.380 of the proper binding of

01:49:02.760 excess individual responsibility

01:49:04.820 sometimes if you're better to yourself

01:49:06.980 like in a fundamental way

01:49:08.160 then you actually

01:49:09.280 doesn't make that much

01:49:10.980 you know

01:49:11.240 it's not that mysterious

01:49:12.060 you get more productive

01:49:13.020 and things work out

01:49:14.020 better for you

01:49:14.700 so

01:49:15.400 all right

01:49:16.700 one more

01:49:17.440 well a lot of people

01:49:19.460 ask about boxers

01:49:20.300 or briefs again

01:49:20.900 but I'm gonna let it

01:49:21.600 slide tonight

01:49:22.180 what do you do

01:49:25.440 for fun

01:49:25.960 Peterson

01:49:26.380 hang out with

01:49:30.820 alt-right

01:49:31.560 gateway

01:49:32.120 comedians

01:49:32.880 no names

01:49:46.380 I'll lead you on one

01:49:48.660 when we had dinner

01:49:49.300 a couple weeks ago

01:49:50.080 you drove me home

01:49:51.320 in a convertible

01:49:52.740 blasting the radio

01:49:53.900 and I could tell

01:49:54.800 the way you were

01:49:55.240 taking those turns

01:49:56.120 through the Hollywood Hills

01:49:57.320 you like driving

01:49:58.560 yeah that was fun

01:49:59.300 yeah

01:49:59.800 absolutely

01:50:00.560 yes

01:50:01.160 driving sports cars

01:50:02.740 with loud music

01:50:03.560 that's

01:50:04.020 that's

01:50:04.460 that's definitely fun

01:50:05.560 I thought if there's a way to go

01:50:08.040 it's with Peterson

01:50:08.800 right off the Hollywood time

01:50:10.040 I'll remember that

01:50:10.920 I'll remember that

01:50:11.700 the next time we're driving

01:50:12.840 yeah

01:50:13.340 yeah

01:50:13.720 anything else for fun

01:50:15.760 I like to

01:50:17.160 I like to spend time

01:50:18.240 with my kids

01:50:18.860 and my wife

01:50:19.400 mostly

01:50:19.840 so that

01:50:21.360 I've

01:50:21.780 and I have

01:50:22.760 I have friends

01:50:23.480 and

01:50:23.740 and I have a grandchild

01:50:27.280 now

01:50:27.660 and we weren't sure

01:50:29.020 that was going to happen

01:50:29.900 because my daughter

01:50:30.660 hasn't been particularly healthy

01:50:31.960 but she is now

01:50:32.900 and she has a child

01:50:33.820 and so that's really cool

01:50:35.180 and so

01:50:36.300 those are good things

01:50:41.380 those are good things

01:50:42.380 indeed

01:50:42.720 on that note

01:50:43.700 I'm going to get out of the way

01:50:45.180 shout out to my man

01:50:46.160 in the Rubin Report shirt

01:50:47.040 right over there

01:50:47.580 by the way

01:50:48.240 and give it up guys

01:50:50.200 for Jordan Peterson

01:50:51.000 everybody

01:50:51.680 thanks Dave

01:50:56.240 if you enjoyed this lecture

01:51:00.040 please rate this podcast

01:51:01.460 five stars

01:51:02.120 at Apple Podcasts

01:51:03.380 leave us a comment

01:51:04.280 or review

01:51:04.840 and share the link

01:51:05.900 to this episode

01:51:06.560 with a friend

01:51:07.120 you might think about

01:51:08.440 picking up dad's books

01:51:09.520 Maps of Meaning

01:51:10.340 The Architecture of Belief

01:51:11.600 or his newer bestseller

01:51:13.080 Twelve Rules for Life

01:51:14.200 and Antidote to Chaos

01:51:15.360 both of these works

01:51:16.960 delve much deeper

01:51:17.840 into the topics

01:51:18.480 covered in the

01:51:19.220 Jordan B. Peterson podcast

01:51:20.600 see jordanbpeterson.com

01:51:22.760 for audio, ebook

01:51:23.960 and text links

01:51:24.740 or pick up the books

01:51:25.780 at your favorite bookseller

01:51:26.740 next episode

01:51:28.020 on the Jordan B. Peterson podcast

01:51:29.580 will be a conversation

01:51:30.860 between Bishop Barron and dad

01:51:32.640 Bishop Robert Emmett Barron

01:51:34.740 was a professor

01:51:35.700 of systematic theology

01:51:37.180 at the University

01:51:38.080 of St. Mary of the Lake

01:51:39.300 he founded the Catholic ministry

01:51:41.040 Word on Fire

01:51:41.880 and has published

01:51:43.020 a number of books

01:51:43.840 including

01:51:44.360 Catholicism

01:51:45.280 A Journey to the Heart

01:51:46.160 of the Faith

01:51:46.600 he has a large YouTube

01:51:47.980 and Facebook presence

01:51:49.120 and is among the rare

01:51:50.400 religious figures

01:51:51.220 managing a substantial

01:51:52.380 public impact

01:51:53.220 in the present world

01:51:54.040 their conversation

01:51:55.080 took place

01:51:55.700 March 26, 2019

01:51:57.360 Religion speaks

01:51:58.520 to these deepest

01:51:59.160 longings of the heart

01:52:00.160 and I think you've

01:52:01.820 for a lot of people

01:52:02.580 made that again possible

01:52:04.020 at least to think

01:52:05.000 coherently

01:52:05.600 and rationally

01:52:06.280 about those things

01:52:06.980 so I found that

01:52:08.700 very uplifting

01:52:09.380 and helpful

01:52:09.920 and I think

01:52:10.380 a lot of people

01:52:10.920 have too

01:52:11.440 Enjoy your week

01:52:12.780 hopefully you enjoyed

01:52:14.100 this lecture

01:52:14.620 and you're also

01:52:15.560 enjoying the sun

01:52:16.340 Toronto's finally sunny

01:52:17.660 it's wonderful

01:52:18.500 I'll talk to you

01:52:19.680 next week

01:52:20.240 Follow me on my

01:52:21.620 YouTube channel

01:52:22.580 Jordan B. Peterson

01:52:23.740 on Twitter

01:52:24.760 at Jordan B. Peterson

01:52:26.320 on Facebook

01:52:27.520 at Dr. Jordan B. Peterson

01:52:29.620 and at Instagram

01:52:30.740 at Jordan.B. Peterson

01:52:33.020 Details on this show

01:52:34.920 access to my blog

01:52:36.580 information about

01:52:37.820 my tour dates

01:52:38.680 and other events

01:52:39.500 and my list of

01:52:40.520 recommended books

01:52:41.540 can be found

01:52:42.400 on my website

01:52:43.260 JordanBPeterson.com

01:52:45.380 My online writing

01:52:46.760 programs

01:52:47.480 designed to help

01:52:48.360 people straighten out

01:52:49.340 their pasts

01:52:50.280 understand themselves

01:52:51.460 in the present

01:52:52.180 and develop

01:52:52.920 a sophisticated vision

01:52:54.160 and strategy

01:52:54.780 for the future

01:52:55.560 can be found

01:52:56.380 at selfauthoring.com

01:52:58.320 That's selfauthoring.com

01:53:00.860 From the Westwood One

01:53:02.800 Podcast Network

01:53:03.860 I'll see you next week

01:53:05.040 I'll see you next week

01:53:05.980 I'll see you next week

01:53:06.980 I'll see you next week

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - June 16, 2019

12 Rules Kitchener： Hierarchy and Fair Play

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript