The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 12 Rules Vancouver： Five levels of chaos and order

00:00:00.940 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:12.740 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

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00:00:57.420 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 10 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.

00:01:05.320 I'm Michaela Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.

00:01:08.820 Today, we're presenting Dad's 12 Rules for Life Lecture at the Chan Centre in Vancouver, BC, Canada.

00:01:15.800 It was recorded on July 26, 2018.

00:01:19.420 Just to update everybody, Mom's still recovering from her surgery.

00:01:23.240 It's been a rough couple of weeks, more like a rough couple of months, a rough year.

00:01:29.060 She hasn't eaten a lot, and it's been hard to see.

00:01:32.520 Fortunately, we've had family come to help, so it hasn't just been us dealing with this.

00:01:37.720 We've also had a lot of visitors.

00:01:39.680 I can't stress enough how important it is to visit people in hospitals or when they're recovering from something traumatic.

00:01:46.080 Sometimes people who haven't been through rough situations don't know that they should do that or go visit, but they should.

00:01:52.080 So if one of your friends is in the hospital, go visit them.

00:01:55.200 It makes a huge difference.

00:01:57.740 Mom's getting better every day, though, so hopefully the update next week will be more positive.

00:02:03.200 When we return, Dad's 12 Rules for Life Lecture at the Chan Centre in Vancouver.

00:02:13.020 Please welcome my father, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson.

00:02:15.520 Thank you.

00:02:15.720 Thank you.

00:02:16.520 Thank you.

00:02:16.580 Thank you.

00:02:17.520 Thank you.

00:02:17.580 Thank you.

00:02:18.580 Thank you.

00:02:19.520 Thank you.

00:02:19.580 Thank you.

00:02:20.020 Thank you.

00:02:22.080 Thank you.

00:02:23.880 I must say, I'm a little disappointed in Vancouver, though.

00:02:29.180 The activists in Calgary, they managed to come up with a petition with 600 names on it, and you guys haven't managed any.

00:02:40.720 It's like, what the hell?

00:02:43.700 I thought this was a hotbed of political correctness.

00:02:47.000 You need to get out there and steam up your activists a bit.

00:02:51.000 They're falling down on the job.

00:02:55.640 All right.

00:02:56.520 Well, actually, it's a great pleasure to be in Vancouver.

00:03:01.640 I've been here a lot in the last couple of years.

00:03:04.700 Probably six.

00:03:05.780 I think this is like the sixth time I've spoken.

00:03:07.820 So, it's really nice to see you all here, and I'm looking forward to talking to you tonight.

00:03:14.220 I thought what I would do tonight is delve into the conceptual understructure of Twelve Rules for Life, into the same, there's kind of a landscape.

00:03:26.780 The book occupies a landscape, I would say.

00:03:29.000 And it's a geographical landscape in part.

00:03:32.620 It's a conceptual landscape.

00:03:34.060 It's an amoral landscape all at the same time, because those are the landscapes we live in all at the same time.

00:03:39.760 And I laid out the landscape in the first book I wrote called Maps of Meaning.

00:03:45.260 Some of you may have watched the lectures on YouTube that are associated with that book.

00:03:50.340 And I put an audio version of it out June 12th.

00:03:53.860 And so, if you found Twelve Rules for Life useful, and you want to occupy yourself with more complicated material, I guess, deeper material, more complicated, though, that's the price you pay for deeper, I guess, then the landscape's really laid out there.

00:04:15.080 And so, the landscape I want to talk about, from what I've, from, as far as I've been able to determine, from what I've read, we actually, modern people, there's something wrong with the way we look at the world.

00:04:32.460 And I think that that's what's making us prone.

00:04:39.780 It's making us prone to two things.

00:04:42.000 It's bestowed on us a tremendous amount of technological power.

00:04:46.340 So, that's obviously extraordinarily useful.

00:04:50.140 But it's also made us prone to nihilism, or to totalitarianism, to those two things as extremes.

00:04:58.440 There's ideological possession, say, on the one hand, which tilts towards totalitarianism, or nihilism, on the other hand.

00:05:05.580 And I think, and this is probably me speaking mostly as a psychologist, I think that a belief system that produces, or a state of belief, a state of conceptualization of the world,

00:05:17.640 that produces a proclivity towards a hopeless meaninglessness that then makes people bitter, or towards a rigid authoritarian viewpoint that makes them, well, punitive and arrogant, that's, something's wrong.

00:05:38.460 That shouldn't happen, as far as I'm concerned.

00:05:41.060 So, and with any luck, it's not inevitable.

00:05:47.540 Like, it isn't that we're looking at the world accurately, and as a consequence, we've got something like a choice between nihilism or totalitarianism.

00:05:55.180 The fact that those are the choices that beckon, so clearly, seems to me to indicate that something's wrong.

00:06:01.200 So, I've been trying to figure out how it might be possible to look at the world in a manner that would allow us to retain our science and our technological prowess,

00:06:19.920 but at the same time, overcome this.

00:06:21.980 Now, I'm more concerned, I would say, with the problem of meaninglessness, even more than the problem of totalitarianism.

00:06:28.660 I think they're linked problems anyways.

00:06:30.240 I think if you solve one, you tend to address the other.

00:06:33.080 But it's meaninglessness and nihilism that's really consumed me as a mystery, or as an illness, let's say, that's necessary to address.

00:06:43.780 And, of course, nihilism is predicated on the idea of meaninglessness, and meaninglessness itself is predicated on something like a, well, a rather hopeless, hopeless and deadening.

00:07:02.540 It's not exactly materialist view of the world, but it's close to that.

00:07:06.180 Okay, so, from what I've been able to determine as a consequence of my investigations into the structure of the brain, its function,

00:07:17.960 and as a consequence of wrestling with the deep structure of narratives,

00:07:31.300 viewing them, at least in part, from an archetypal perspective,

00:07:36.180 I think that we have our conceptual categories wrong.

00:07:41.840 So, I'm going to lay out what I think the proper conceptual categories are,

00:07:46.100 and why I think they're not only more real, perversely enough,

00:07:52.240 or more comprehensive, more real and more comprehensive than our standard material categories,

00:07:58.440 but also why knowing about them actually addresses the problem of meaninglessness.

00:08:03.700 I think it actually solves the problem of meaninglessness.

00:08:08.520 So, you know, the typical nihilistic perspective is something like this.

00:08:14.120 You know, the reality is composed of dead material elements,

00:08:20.720 and they've arranged themselves in complex arrays,

00:08:24.940 the most complex of which might be us,

00:08:27.900 but that's a consequence of,

00:08:32.020 it's a deterministic process like clockwork.

00:08:37.200 We're fancy biological machines.

00:08:39.860 We inhabit, there's seven billion of us.

00:08:42.760 Each of us is one among seven billion.

00:08:44.680 We inhabit a little dust mode of a planet circling around a no-account star

00:08:50.080 in a desiccated suburban solar system

00:08:58.340 in a no-account galaxy among trillions of galaxies.

00:09:02.960 And so what the hell does it all matter?

00:09:05.200 It's something like that.

00:09:06.360 And, you know,

00:09:09.580 that's not a perspective on which you can really base a solid life.

00:09:19.560 Now, well, that's worth thinking about, you know,

00:09:22.440 because you might be thinking,

00:09:23.640 you might think for a while that

00:09:25.000 what you need is a perspective on which you can base a solid life.

00:09:28.780 And if the perspective you're offered doesn't seem to offer that,

00:09:32.160 then it's conceivable, although not certain,

00:09:35.940 that that's a mark against it.

00:09:40.980 Now, if the universe is ultimately meaningless,

00:09:43.600 and this is all a cruel joke,

00:09:45.660 then what I'm putting forward is incorrect,

00:09:49.280 but there's always the possibility

00:09:51.000 that we're not looking at the situation correctly.

00:09:57.900 Okay, so here's some,

00:09:59.520 I'm going to lay out a bunch of ideas

00:10:01.560 that are, they run in parallel.

00:10:05.200 There's this,

00:10:06.760 it's very hard in science to figure out

00:10:08.820 how to establish a truth.

00:10:10.680 You know, people think that's a straightforward thing,

00:10:13.060 but it's not.

00:10:16.620 That's why it's been so difficult to build science,

00:10:19.260 why we didn't really even have science

00:10:20.800 until about 500 years ago.

00:10:22.280 It's very difficult to determine

00:10:24.600 what constitutes truth from a scientific perspective.

00:10:26.560 And there's this biologist, E.O. Wilson.

00:10:34.500 He used to work at Harvard.

00:10:36.060 He's an entomologist.

00:10:37.120 He studied ants.

00:10:38.500 He's a sociobiologist.

00:10:39.760 He wrote the first book on sociobiology,

00:10:41.560 which got him in a lot of political trouble,

00:10:43.560 even though he didn't expect it at all.

00:10:45.080 He wasn't a political person.

00:10:46.900 He had this idea of consilience.

00:10:48.940 And his idea of consilience was something like,

00:10:52.880 if you could see a phenomenon manifest itself

00:10:54.960 at one level of analysis,

00:10:57.320 and then at another level of analysis,

00:10:59.580 some similar phenomenon manifested itself,

00:11:02.700 and then at a third level of analysis,

00:11:04.360 you could see the same thing,

00:11:05.920 and then at a fourth and fifth and so on,

00:11:08.460 with each level of analysis

00:11:10.840 that produced the same pattern,

00:11:12.860 the probability that that pattern was solid, real, increased.

00:11:17.120 That's how your senses work, right?

00:11:19.540 That's why you have five senses.

00:11:22.400 What's essentially occurred from an evolutionary perspective

00:11:25.720 is the realization that if you can see something

00:11:29.520 from using five different senses,

00:11:32.160 and they all report that it's there,

00:11:34.760 then it's probably there.

00:11:37.340 So it's the same idea, right?

00:11:38.820 Because sight is a lot different than hearing,

00:11:41.360 and hearing is a lot different than touch,

00:11:42.980 and touch is a lot different than taste.

00:11:44.520 And if you can hear something and smell it and see it

00:11:47.200 and taste it and touch it,

00:11:49.720 then it's there.

00:11:51.720 And from a scientific perspective,

00:11:54.180 if you can detect something using multiple measurements,

00:11:57.740 then it's there.

00:11:58.640 Same idea emerged in psychology,

00:12:01.040 though the psychologist came up with a terrible term for it.

00:12:04.060 It was multi-method, multi-matrix construct validation.

00:12:07.980 So it's kind of a mangly phrase,

00:12:10.360 but basically what it means is if you're going to make the case

00:12:14.560 that something exists,

00:12:15.740 you have to be able to measure it in multiple ways,

00:12:19.620 and all those different ways of measuring it

00:12:21.340 have to come to the same conclusion.

00:12:24.140 Okay, so that's what I'm going to try tonight.

00:12:26.360 So I'm going to tell you about five different stories,

00:12:30.280 and then I'm going to tell you what I think they mean,

00:12:32.440 something like that.

00:12:34.000 Okay, so the first thing that's cool

00:12:35.700 is that you have two hemispheres.

00:12:38.160 And it isn't just you and all humans

00:12:41.400 that have two hemispheres.

00:12:42.840 It's an awful lot of animals, too.

00:12:45.620 And, you know, you might ask,

00:12:46.820 well, why would you have two hemispheres?

00:12:48.480 Why not one or six?

00:12:50.240 But you have two,

00:12:52.300 and that seems to indicate

00:12:53.640 that there's some bifurcation in the structure of reality,

00:12:56.700 because why would you need two hemispheres otherwise?

00:12:59.680 And there's decent evidence

00:13:00.720 that each of them is partially conscious in some sense.

00:13:05.540 So if you,

00:13:07.060 the hemispheres are connected

00:13:08.140 by something called the corpus callosum,

00:13:10.320 which allows them to communicate,

00:13:12.800 but not completely.

00:13:13.680 It's a fairly narrow channel,

00:13:15.360 which is quite interesting.

00:13:16.440 Your brain isn't structured

00:13:18.040 so that every bit of it can communicate

00:13:19.560 with every other bit of it.

00:13:21.080 There seems to be some optimal balance

00:13:22.940 between having separate units

00:13:25.180 that can do calculations,

00:13:26.900 and then having those separate units communicate,

00:13:29.040 and that separateness even applies to the hemispheres.

00:13:32.480 If you cut the corpus callosum,

00:13:33.980 you can do experiments demonstrating

00:13:36.920 that each hemisphere possesses its own consciousness,

00:13:40.660 even though they're still integrated

00:13:42.000 way down at the level of the brainstem.

00:13:44.720 So it's not like you have two people in the same head.

00:13:47.120 You have one person

00:13:48.820 who can be segregated into two consciousnesses.

00:13:52.140 So you can trick the two hemispheres

00:13:53.780 using tricky experiments

00:13:56.940 so that one doesn't know what the other is doing,

00:13:59.640 and then they'll produce conflicting reports.

00:14:01.360 And so, not only do you have two hemispheres,

00:14:04.500 but they're quite separate in their function.

00:14:06.500 They do different things.

00:14:07.700 The right hemisphere, broadly speaking,

00:14:10.640 tends not to be linguistic.

00:14:12.120 Now, it depends a little bit on the individual,

00:14:14.520 because people do wire themselves up

00:14:18.840 in slightly different ways.

00:14:20.400 You could say,

00:14:21.340 we have specialized cognitive and emotional functions,

00:14:25.100 and they tend to be associated

00:14:27.320 with fairly stable positioning in the hemispheres.

00:14:30.980 But if something goes wrong during development,

00:14:33.080 or there's some abnormality,

00:14:34.440 then those functions can take up residence

00:14:37.260 in different parts of the brain.

00:14:39.340 So there's similarity across people,

00:14:42.860 but there's plasticity.

00:14:44.200 So what I'm saying isn't an absolute truth,

00:14:46.880 but it's an average truth,

00:14:49.000 right and left.

00:14:49.600 Right isn't linguistic.

00:14:52.360 Left is linguistic.

00:14:54.260 So the left hemisphere can talk,

00:14:56.360 and the right hemisphere can't.

00:14:58.760 But the hemispheres differ

00:14:59.960 in lots of other ways as well.

00:15:03.140 So, for example,

00:15:04.640 the front of the left hemisphere

00:15:06.120 seems to be associated with positive emotion.

00:15:08.580 So if you're feeling happy,

00:15:10.520 or if you're feeling like advancing toward things,

00:15:13.420 which is the same, by the way, as being happy,

00:15:15.800 then your left prefrontal cortex

00:15:17.340 tends to be activated.

00:15:18.400 And if you're upset and anxious,

00:15:20.220 then it's your right prefrontal cortex.

00:15:22.320 So there's some emotional specialization.

00:15:25.420 And there's also specialization in terms of,

00:15:28.700 well, the emotional specialization

00:15:30.620 is of particular interest

00:15:32.220 because the right hemisphere,

00:15:33.980 being responsible at least in part,

00:15:35.800 the prefrontal part of the right hemisphere,

00:15:37.940 is associated with anxiety.

00:15:40.280 And anxiety is associated with uncertainty,

00:15:43.240 and uncertainty is associated

00:15:44.620 with what you don't know, right?

00:15:46.400 Certainty is associated with what you know,

00:15:48.860 and uncertainty is associated

00:15:50.240 with what you don't know.

00:15:51.800 And so there has been a reasonable body

00:15:56.280 of theoretical speculation

00:15:58.400 generated by credible neuroscientists

00:16:01.120 that the fundamental specialization

00:16:05.180 of the left and right hemisphere

00:16:06.520 isn't language versus non-language.

00:16:08.940 It's known versus unknown.

00:16:11.820 It's explored territory

00:16:13.980 versus unexplored territory.

00:16:15.460 It's certainty versus uncertainty.

00:16:17.660 And that the left hemisphere

00:16:18.940 tilts towards the construction

00:16:21.540 of encapsulated world models

00:16:23.900 that are stable and complete,

00:16:26.200 whereas the right hemisphere

00:16:27.220 tends to respond to things

00:16:28.480 that you don't understand.

00:16:30.900 And so that's...

00:16:32.160 And the person who formalized

00:16:34.140 this theory most completely

00:16:35.280 was a man named L. Conan Goldberg.

00:16:37.640 And Goldberg was a student

00:16:38.800 of the greatest neuropsychologist

00:16:40.240 that ever lived,

00:16:41.080 who's Alexander Luria,

00:16:42.240 who's a Russian.

00:16:42.800 And there's some other

00:16:44.120 great neuropsychologists,

00:16:45.360 but Luria, man,

00:16:46.240 he was up there.

00:16:48.500 He was the person

00:16:49.200 who I would say established

00:16:50.380 the groundwork

00:16:51.120 for the modern understanding

00:16:52.240 of the brain.

00:16:53.080 He had fantastic students,

00:16:55.000 Goldberg being one of them,

00:16:56.120 but also two other people,

00:16:58.500 Vinogradova and Sokolov,

00:17:01.280 who discovered something

00:17:02.300 called the orienting reflex,

00:17:03.800 which is,

00:17:04.460 that's a major league discovery, man.

00:17:06.880 That's the reflex that orients you

00:17:09.260 towards what you don't understand.

00:17:11.400 That's a Nobel Prize winning.

00:17:13.020 They should have won

00:17:13.540 a Nobel Prize for that.

00:17:14.520 It was a major discovery.

00:17:16.380 So, but they didn't,

00:17:17.280 but maybe that was

00:17:17.920 because they were Russian.

00:17:19.160 Who knows?

00:17:20.120 I mean, Russians do win 1.00

00:17:21.540 Nobel Prizes from time to time,

00:17:23.240 but it was a big deal.

00:17:24.680 And we'll go back

00:17:25.300 to the orienting reflex later.

00:17:26.960 So it was Goldberg's hypothesis

00:17:28.500 that the hemispheres

00:17:30.780 were specialized,

00:17:32.120 one for familiarity

00:17:33.280 and the other for novelty.

00:17:36.000 So that's kind of interesting.

00:17:37.420 So we'll just put that aside

00:17:39.000 for a minute.

00:17:39.500 And then,

00:17:40.420 so here's another,

00:17:42.380 something else

00:17:44.200 of conceptual interest.

00:17:46.120 So there's a Taoist idea

00:17:47.720 that you're all familiar with,

00:17:50.460 at least visually,

00:17:51.420 because you've all seen

00:17:52.380 the yin yang symbol, right?

00:17:54.000 So you've seen

00:17:54.600 the yin yang symbol.

00:17:55.380 It's a circle.

00:17:56.700 And inside the circle

00:17:57.640 is a black,

00:17:59.000 looks like a paisley

00:18:00.000 and a white paisley

00:18:01.280 and they're head to head.

00:18:01.940 They're actually twin serpents.

00:18:04.160 That's the fundamental structure

00:18:05.980 of the yin yang symbol.

00:18:08.140 And the black paisley serpent

00:18:10.600 has a white dot in it

00:18:11.820 and the white serpent

00:18:13.260 has a black dot in it.

00:18:14.600 And that's often conceptualized,

00:18:17.560 yin and yang,

00:18:18.260 as something like

00:18:19.200 masculine and feminine.

00:18:21.360 But it's symbolically

00:18:23.400 masculine and feminine.

00:18:24.940 And that makes the whole story

00:18:27.500 much more complicated.

00:18:28.700 But well, that's okay.

00:18:29.820 I'll see what I can do with that.

00:18:34.520 But I think the best translation

00:18:37.180 of yin and yang

00:18:38.820 is chaos and order,

00:18:40.860 not masculine and feminine.

00:18:44.300 Masculine and feminine

00:18:45.300 are in turn symbolic representatives

00:18:48.360 of chaos and order.

00:18:50.140 And there's a reason for that.

00:18:51.300 It's a profound reason,

00:18:52.520 which we'll get to.

00:18:53.940 But the Taoist idea,

00:18:55.040 the Taoist idea is this.

00:18:57.140 So whatever Tao is,

00:18:59.260 is reality itself.

00:19:01.260 It's not material reality.

00:19:03.380 Okay?

00:19:03.760 It's a different idea

00:19:04.960 about what reality is.

00:19:06.880 Here's a way of thinking about it.

00:19:08.880 You know how matter

00:19:09.620 has two meanings?

00:19:11.440 There's the matter

00:19:12.280 that things are made of,

00:19:13.360 but then there's the

00:19:14.120 what's the matter.

00:19:15.740 When you say to someone,

00:19:17.020 what's the matter with you?

00:19:18.740 Or you say,

00:19:20.720 that's a weighty matter.

00:19:22.240 Or you say,

00:19:23.600 that matters.

00:19:25.240 And it's pretty interesting,

00:19:26.380 you know,

00:19:26.620 that there's two meanings

00:19:27.620 to the word matter.

00:19:28.600 Because those are

00:19:29.140 really different meanings.

00:19:30.480 One is something like

00:19:31.440 the significance, right?

00:19:33.400 And the other is,

00:19:34.060 well, the material substrate.

00:19:36.000 But we have both of those usages.

00:19:38.480 And Tao is a lot more like

00:19:39.960 what matters

00:19:40.780 than it is like matter.

00:19:42.700 And so the Taoist idea

00:19:43.740 is the world is something like

00:19:45.220 the world is made out

00:19:46.080 of what matters.

00:19:47.880 And that's how your brain

00:19:49.000 reacts to the world,

00:19:50.100 by the way.

00:19:51.160 Your brain actually reacts

00:19:52.540 to the world

00:19:53.000 as if it's made out

00:19:53.920 of what matters.

00:19:54.820 Now, there are physicists

00:19:55.780 who've actually taken up this.

00:19:57.540 And I'm not going to go

00:19:58.220 all quantum weird on you here

00:19:59.700 because I think

00:20:00.240 that's counterproductive.

00:20:01.700 But John Wheeler,

00:20:02.860 for example,

00:20:03.900 who's a great physicist,

00:20:04.960 believed that the substrate

00:20:06.200 of the world

00:20:06.760 was something more like

00:20:07.620 information than like matter.

00:20:09.560 That matter was

00:20:10.180 a secondary consequence

00:20:11.280 of a more fundamental substrate

00:20:13.200 that was information.

00:20:15.280 And so it could easily be

00:20:16.240 that the world is made

00:20:17.200 out of what matters.

00:20:19.200 But it's certainly the case 0.98

00:20:20.540 that that's how

00:20:21.320 your brain responds to it.

00:20:23.480 That's interesting to me

00:20:24.680 because, well,

00:20:26.880 there is this theory

00:20:27.780 if you're a biologist,

00:20:29.020 especially, you know,

00:20:29.740 if you're influenced

00:20:30.360 by Darwin,

00:20:31.080 and of course you are

00:20:32.000 if you're a biologist,

00:20:33.180 you're not only influenced

00:20:34.220 by Darwin,

00:20:34.900 your whole science

00:20:35.880 is nested inside

00:20:37.380 the Darwinian structure,

00:20:38.780 right?

00:20:38.980 There's no getting out of it.

00:20:40.380 And there's the idea

00:20:41.620 that if you're a Darwinian

00:20:42.840 that, well,

00:20:44.220 that you're adapted

00:20:45.040 to reality.

00:20:46.640 That's a definition.

00:20:48.020 It's not a hypothesis,

00:20:49.380 right?

00:20:49.920 Reality is,

00:20:51.220 by definition,

00:20:52.200 what you're adapted to

00:20:53.500 if you're a Darwinian.

00:20:54.700 Because reality

00:20:55.520 is what selected you

00:20:56.800 over the course

00:20:57.400 of evolutionary time.

00:20:59.760 And there's no more

00:21:00.880 fundamental definition

00:21:03.080 of reality

00:21:03.980 than that which selects

00:21:07.100 from a Darwinian perspective.

00:21:08.340 That's it.

00:21:09.140 That's as far down

00:21:09.960 as you go.

00:21:11.240 And that's something

00:21:11.980 that actually has

00:21:12.700 profound philosophical

00:21:13.840 significance,

00:21:14.840 which the American pragmatists

00:21:19.280 realized that virtually

00:21:20.800 as soon as Darwin

00:21:21.640 published his great work.

00:21:23.780 So the fact that your brain

00:21:26.800 reacts to the world

00:21:27.940 as if it matters,

00:21:30.620 as if it's made out

00:21:31.620 of what matters, 0.59

00:21:32.660 it's actually damn significant,

00:21:34.540 even if you happen 0.55

00:21:35.240 to be a scientist.

00:21:36.280 Now, it's weird.

00:21:37.520 It highlights a strange

00:21:38.900 dichotomy in science

00:21:40.240 as far as I can tell

00:21:41.160 between what you might

00:21:42.480 describe as sort of

00:21:43.520 Newtonian clockwork

00:21:44.880 determinists

00:21:45.660 and Darwinian biologists.

00:21:48.400 And because exactly

00:21:50.200 the same conclusion

00:21:51.180 about the structure

00:21:51.920 of reality

00:21:52.420 isn't derivable

00:21:53.960 from materialistic physics

00:21:56.480 and from evolutionary biology,

00:21:58.780 they give you

00:21:59.340 different readouts

00:22:00.680 on what the fundamental

00:22:01.920 reality is.

00:22:03.000 And they're actually

00:22:03.600 in conflict.

00:22:04.280 I think the Darwinians

00:22:05.820 are right.

00:22:07.060 And anyways,

00:22:09.020 but the point is

00:22:10.100 is that your brain

00:22:11.060 does react to the world

00:22:12.300 as if it's made out

00:22:13.100 of what matters.

00:22:13.920 And it's also bifurcated

00:22:15.420 in this interesting way

00:22:16.560 that makes it,

00:22:17.920 part of it,

00:22:18.600 deal with what you expect

00:22:20.020 and what you know

00:22:20.620 and part of it deal

00:22:21.340 with what you don't expect

00:22:22.380 and what you don't know.

00:22:23.380 And that maps on

00:22:24.220 very nicely, by the way,

00:22:25.400 to the Taoist conception.

00:22:27.640 Because chaos

00:22:28.740 is what you don't know

00:22:30.080 and order is what you know.

00:22:32.800 And the interplay,

00:22:33.680 as far as the Taoists

00:22:34.540 are concerned,

00:22:35.500 it's the interplay

00:22:36.300 between those two things

00:22:37.520 that makes up Tao.

00:22:39.260 And Tao is meaning.

00:22:40.500 That's a good way

00:22:41.200 of thinking about it.

00:22:42.220 It's also the way

00:22:43.160 or the path of life.

00:22:44.440 But that's the same thing.

00:22:45.920 This is another thing

00:22:46.580 the Taoists got so right 1.00

00:22:47.740 is that the path of life

00:22:49.680 and meaning

00:22:50.340 are the same thing.

00:22:51.580 Well, what are you going

00:22:52.260 to do with your life?

00:22:53.160 Well, what should you do

00:22:54.140 with your life?

00:22:54.700 Well, those are all questions

00:22:55.580 about meaning.

00:22:56.200 And, you know,

00:22:57.300 you walk a path of meaning

00:22:59.600 meaning is something

00:23:01.120 you act out.

00:23:02.220 And so the Taoist idea

00:23:03.500 that Tao is the way

00:23:05.100 or the path of life

00:23:06.200 and that it's associated

00:23:07.660 with chaos and order

00:23:09.340 makes sense.

00:23:12.600 It stacks on the neuropsychology

00:23:14.220 quite nicely.

00:23:15.820 And there's more to it

00:23:17.940 than that too

00:23:18.500 because the Taoist claim

00:23:19.640 is something like,

00:23:21.080 well, there's chaos here

00:23:22.360 and there's order here.

00:23:24.580 And the question is,

00:23:26.220 well, where should you be

00:23:28.140 in that?

00:23:29.600 And the answer is

00:23:30.560 right on the border

00:23:32.060 between the two.

00:23:33.280 That's the place

00:23:33.980 of maximal meaning.

00:23:35.560 And that's the proper

00:23:36.440 orientation in the world.

00:23:38.560 And I think that's true.

00:23:40.820 And I think it's

00:23:41.600 neurologically true as well

00:23:43.120 because I think

00:23:44.580 what happens neurologically

00:23:46.100 is that when you're

00:23:46.960 on the border

00:23:47.640 between what you know

00:23:48.640 and what you don't know,

00:23:49.940 you find that meaningful.

00:23:51.480 And the reason for that is,

00:23:52.920 well, think about it.

00:23:54.160 Where else should you be?

00:23:56.380 If you're only where you know,

00:23:58.200 that's secure, man.

00:23:59.440 No problem, right?

00:24:00.500 So it's secure.

00:24:01.580 It's like you're

00:24:02.080 in a walled fortress.

00:24:03.260 In fact, the walled fortress

00:24:04.340 is one of the symbols

00:24:05.320 for what you know.

00:24:07.560 But the problem

00:24:08.300 with being secure only

00:24:10.760 is that you're not

00:24:11.960 being challenged, right?

00:24:13.840 So first of all,

00:24:14.460 you might get bored.

00:24:16.000 Everything's always the same,

00:24:18.260 you know?

00:24:18.640 And so no one likes that.

00:24:20.620 You know, you don't want

00:24:21.220 a piece of music

00:24:21.820 that just endlessly repeats.

00:24:23.480 It would drive you

00:24:24.360 stark raving mad

00:24:25.340 even though it's

00:24:26.280 perfectly predictable

00:24:27.280 and certainly not

00:24:28.580 the least bit dangerous.

00:24:29.880 You want a little variation

00:24:30.940 in there, you know?

00:24:32.780 And that's what you want

00:24:33.700 in your life is

00:24:34.460 you want some stability

00:24:35.700 because everything

00:24:37.080 can't be completely different

00:24:38.740 all the time

00:24:39.520 at every possible level

00:24:40.700 of analysis,

00:24:41.540 but you want

00:24:42.780 a little variation.

00:24:44.420 And then the question might be,

00:24:45.700 well, how much variation

00:24:46.520 do you want?

00:24:48.420 And the answer is,

00:24:49.700 it's hard to compute,

00:24:50.780 but you can use

00:24:51.400 your sense of meaning

00:24:52.100 to determine

00:24:52.700 how much variation

00:24:53.520 you want because

00:24:54.220 if there's too much variation

00:24:55.840 and things are changing

00:24:56.700 too quickly,

00:24:57.520 then all that happens

00:24:58.380 is you get anxious.

00:24:59.860 And no one wants

00:25:00.500 to get anxious.

00:25:01.260 In fact, anxiety

00:25:02.100 is exactly what protects you

00:25:03.740 against too much uncertainty.

00:25:05.340 It's more than that

00:25:06.120 because you can be anxious

00:25:07.060 about something specific

00:25:08.400 that's dangerous,

00:25:10.020 but we could call that fear.

00:25:11.800 Psychologists have kind of

00:25:12.720 decided to do that.

00:25:14.200 Anxiety, on the other hand,

00:25:15.260 is an index of uncertainty.

00:25:17.280 And if the uncertainty

00:25:18.200 levels go up too much,

00:25:19.480 if there's too much

00:25:20.140 variation in your life,

00:25:21.320 I can't control it,

00:25:22.500 things are beyond me,

00:25:23.880 everything's falling apart.

00:25:25.060 It's like,

00:25:25.780 well, then you're too much

00:25:26.820 over on the chaos

00:25:27.680 end of the distribution.

00:25:29.760 And so,

00:25:30.300 you don't want to be

00:25:31.040 in order only

00:25:32.140 because you're not

00:25:33.760 expanding your domain

00:25:35.540 of competence.

00:25:36.960 Because you might think,

00:25:37.940 well, you have to do

00:25:38.480 two things.

00:25:39.080 You have to be secure

00:25:40.100 and stable,

00:25:41.560 but you also have to be

00:25:43.000 learning and growing

00:25:45.340 because not only do you

00:25:46.380 want to be secure and stable,

00:25:47.460 you want to be more secure

00:25:48.780 and more stable

00:25:49.780 across more situations

00:25:51.640 for longer periods of time

00:25:53.540 and include more people

00:25:55.280 in that.

00:25:56.580 Right?

00:25:57.040 It's an expanding game.

00:25:58.340 You don't want to just

00:25:58.980 play the game.

00:25:59.580 You want to play

00:26:00.040 an expanding game

00:26:01.440 because that's better

00:26:02.460 than just playing a game.

00:26:03.540 Right?

00:26:03.780 Even if you're just

00:26:04.700 playing a game,

00:26:05.580 usually what you do

00:26:06.440 if you're good

00:26:06.940 at playing a game

00:26:07.620 is try to make yourself

00:26:08.680 better at the game

00:26:09.400 all the time.

00:26:10.660 So it isn't just

00:26:11.500 that you're playing

00:26:12.040 the game

00:26:12.420 or that you're

00:26:12.980 playing the game

00:26:13.520 to win.

00:26:14.340 It's that you're

00:26:14.900 playing the game

00:26:15.500 to win

00:26:16.040 so that you can

00:26:16.880 get better

00:26:17.360 at playing games

00:26:18.240 to win.

00:26:19.740 And that's,

00:26:20.340 and why wouldn't

00:26:20.900 you do that?

00:26:21.480 Because why wouldn't

00:26:22.340 you be wired up,

00:26:23.980 so to speak,

00:26:24.580 from a Darwinian

00:26:25.300 perspective

00:26:25.760 to continually expand

00:26:27.220 your domain

00:26:27.720 of competence?

00:26:29.320 Now,

00:26:29.700 there's nothing

00:26:30.140 about that,

00:26:30.760 I would say,

00:26:31.440 there's nothing

00:26:31.820 about that that's

00:26:32.540 even particularly

00:26:33.520 contentious

00:26:34.440 from the perspective

00:26:35.740 of mainstream

00:26:36.960 psychology.

00:26:37.860 I mean,

00:26:38.460 it's a truism

00:26:39.440 to some degree

00:26:40.620 among reasonably

00:26:42.040 well-informed

00:26:42.840 psychologists,

00:26:44.540 cognitive

00:26:44.880 and behavioral,

00:26:47.320 biologically informed,

00:26:48.680 social psychologists

00:26:49.560 for that matter,

00:26:50.420 certainly clinicians,

00:26:51.420 that people have

00:26:52.820 a drive for knowledge,

00:26:54.180 we're curious,

00:26:54.960 we're trying to learn

00:26:56.060 and to grow,

00:26:57.300 and that there's

00:26:58.100 something,

00:26:58.860 that that's not

00:26:59.780 a secondary consequence

00:27:00.860 of some other instinct,

00:27:02.100 it's an instinct

00:27:03.420 in and of itself.

00:27:04.440 So,

00:27:07.440 it makes sense

00:27:08.360 that you have

00:27:10.540 one foot in order

00:27:11.320 and one foot in chaos,

00:27:13.060 and that if you have

00:27:14.840 those balanced properly,

00:27:16.860 well,

00:27:17.300 then that's the next issue.

00:27:19.420 What happens

00:27:19.920 if you have those things

00:27:20.760 balanced properly?

00:27:22.500 Well,

00:27:22.740 what's the consequence

00:27:24.280 of that?

00:27:25.500 Well,

00:27:25.720 it looks to me

00:27:26.400 like the consequence

00:27:27.180 of that is that

00:27:28.180 you experience

00:27:30.120 a sense

00:27:31.220 of engaged meaning,

00:27:32.240 and so that meaning

00:27:34.180 basically,

00:27:35.020 you think about that,

00:27:35.880 so interesting

00:27:36.580 is that

00:27:37.040 that sense

00:27:39.100 of engaged meaning

00:27:39.880 then does say

00:27:40.860 that you're in

00:27:41.420 the right place

00:27:42.280 at the right time

00:27:43.180 doing the right thing,

00:27:44.960 and so it's not

00:27:45.880 epiphenomenal,

00:27:47.040 it's not a secondary

00:27:47.820 consequence

00:27:48.460 of some more

00:27:49.180 fundamental material process,

00:27:50.900 it's none of that,

00:27:51.880 it's the most real thing,

00:27:55.400 at least in so far

00:27:56.400 as you're a biological organism

00:27:58.560 concerned with

00:27:59.440 actually living,

00:28:01.080 which seems to be

00:28:02.460 a relevant issue

00:28:03.420 since that's what

00:28:04.900 life does

00:28:05.640 and has been doing

00:28:06.460 for three and a half

00:28:07.240 billion years,

00:28:08.380 this isn't something

00:28:09.260 trivial.

00:28:10.900 Well,

00:28:11.120 then the Taoist story

00:28:12.140 is interesting as well

00:28:13.840 because it's such

00:28:15.240 a sophisticated representation,

00:28:16.980 so in the black serpent

00:28:19.240 there's a white dot

00:28:20.080 and in the white serpent

00:28:20.920 there's a black dot

00:28:21.780 and the question is

00:28:22.840 why?

00:28:23.280 And the answer is

00:28:23.880 well,

00:28:24.220 because one can transform

00:28:25.180 into the other

00:28:25.860 at the drop of a half,

00:28:27.900 and you know that

00:28:28.480 in your own life

00:28:29.120 because, you know,

00:28:30.300 maybe you're cruising along

00:28:31.380 in your family

00:28:31.980 and everything's

00:28:32.700 pretty stable

00:28:33.680 and then all of a sudden,

00:28:35.040 well, maybe someone

00:28:35.600 has an accident,

00:28:36.540 they fall down the stairs

00:28:37.580 or you go,

00:28:39.380 you go,

00:28:40.380 you know,

00:28:40.800 you have a heart,

00:28:41.760 you have a little heart murmur

00:28:43.120 palpitation one day

00:28:44.200 and you go to the doctor

00:28:45.280 and you find out

00:28:45.920 that you need

00:28:46.580 a coronary bypass

00:28:47.620 or, you know,

00:28:48.780 or you go to your job

00:28:50.140 and it turns out

00:28:51.200 your boss has been

00:28:52.040 embezzling money

00:28:52.840 and even though

00:28:53.900 you've been working hard

00:28:54.820 and your life

00:28:55.320 is set up properly,

00:28:56.360 poof,

00:28:56.780 you're unemployed.

00:28:57.460 It's like,

00:28:58.440 what?

00:28:59.000 This sort of thing

00:28:59.680 can happen,

00:29:00.340 not only can happen,

00:29:02.300 it's not that it can happen,

00:29:04.200 it happens all the time,

00:29:06.880 right,

00:29:07.180 that your domain

00:29:08.660 of stability

00:29:09.600 is blown apart

00:29:11.400 by the introduction

00:29:12.300 of something chaotic

00:29:13.500 and so,

00:29:14.300 and that's life, man,

00:29:15.500 is that no matter

00:29:16.360 how secure you make things,

00:29:17.900 it's the same idea

00:29:18.700 as the snake in the garden,

00:29:20.060 it's exactly the same idea.

00:29:21.840 No one can make

00:29:22.860 a garden so safe,

00:29:24.340 not even God,

00:29:25.320 that there is no snake in it

00:29:28.220 and that's life

00:29:29.660 and so,

00:29:31.300 so the security

00:29:32.960 can turn into instability

00:29:34.880 at the drop of a hat

00:29:36.480 but likewise,

00:29:37.520 you also know this too,

00:29:38.620 now and then,

00:29:39.420 things are really chaotic

00:29:40.460 in your life,

00:29:41.040 this is usually something

00:29:42.080 you best apprehend

00:29:43.320 when this sort of thing

00:29:44.940 is in the past,

00:29:45.720 you know,

00:29:45.940 you go through a period

00:29:46.740 of crisis

00:29:47.320 and everything is unstable

00:29:48.900 and chaotic

00:29:50.020 and you're overwhelmed

00:29:50.980 by anxiety

00:29:51.700 and sometimes

00:29:52.540 that just kills you,

00:29:53.640 like there's no necessary reason

00:29:55.820 that you're going

00:29:56.240 to get out of that

00:29:56.860 but sometimes

00:29:57.680 you do get out of it

00:29:58.680 and you return

00:29:59.700 to a place of stability

00:30:00.760 and you think,

00:30:01.440 oh God,

00:30:02.120 that was really something

00:30:03.040 but all things considered,

00:30:05.460 I might have learned

00:30:06.200 something worthwhile

00:30:07.140 and be put together

00:30:08.760 better now

00:30:09.560 than I was before,

00:30:11.260 right,

00:30:11.560 because and that's kind of

00:30:12.420 how people look

00:30:13.140 at the challenges

00:30:13.780 in their life,

00:30:14.460 I mean,

00:30:14.980 I'm not being naively

00:30:15.920 optimistic about this,

00:30:17.080 I know you can get

00:30:17.760 taken out,

00:30:18.640 people do die

00:30:19.860 after all,

00:30:20.940 so it's no game,

00:30:22.780 it's not like

00:30:23.720 just because there's

00:30:24.740 a challenge

00:30:25.300 you're going to

00:30:25.780 come out of it better

00:30:26.860 but it's certainly

00:30:27.980 not an unexpected

00:30:29.740 occurrence for you

00:30:31.080 to undergo a severe

00:30:32.300 trial and come out

00:30:34.120 of it better,

00:30:36.080 it's not necessarily

00:30:37.420 the case

00:30:37.920 but it does happen

00:30:38.820 and well,

00:30:39.580 it's also the,

00:30:40.680 it's the ground

00:30:41.780 for much of our

00:30:43.100 great optimistic

00:30:44.760 literature,

00:30:45.740 that's the structure

00:30:46.660 of comedy essentially,

00:30:48.300 I don't mean the sort

00:30:49.220 of funny,

00:30:50.680 you know,

00:30:51.340 humorous comedy,

00:30:52.200 I mean technically

00:30:53.460 there's comedy

00:30:54.540 and tragedy

00:30:55.180 in literature

00:30:55.860 and comedy means

00:30:57.140 you take a quick 0.89

00:30:58.160 trip to hell 0.98

00:30:58.900 but you come back 0.99

00:31:00.020 out and tragedy

00:31:01.380 just means no,

00:31:02.400 it's hell all the

00:31:03.020 way down,

00:31:04.120 right,

00:31:04.580 and that,

00:31:05.840 both of those things

00:31:06.800 are realistic

00:31:07.420 possibilities in life

00:31:08.660 but we're certainly

00:31:09.660 hoping for the comedy,

00:31:11.740 right,

00:31:12.220 because that means

00:31:13.100 success,

00:31:14.920 so okay,

00:31:16.900 so that's the second,

00:31:18.140 so the first layer

00:31:19.780 is,

00:31:20.680 we kind of got

00:31:21.160 three layers

00:31:21.720 going here now,

00:31:22.740 the first layer

00:31:23.600 is the

00:31:24.320 neuropsychological

00:31:25.760 say and then

00:31:26.460 you can lay

00:31:26.940 the Taoist layer

00:31:27.840 on top of that

00:31:28.600 and think,

00:31:29.100 oh,

00:31:29.280 those things,

00:31:29.860 those things mesh

00:31:30.920 in a really

00:31:31.340 interesting way

00:31:32.140 and you might

00:31:32.860 think,

00:31:33.120 well that's just,

00:31:34.600 just,

00:31:34.980 I'm just randomly

00:31:35.900 recognizing patterns,

00:31:37.500 that would be

00:31:37.900 the sort of thing,

00:31:39.480 it's easy to accuse

00:31:40.400 someone of that

00:31:41.140 if they're over

00:31:42.160 interpreting a story,

00:31:43.440 let's say,

00:31:43.880 no,

00:31:44.080 you're just projecting

00:31:45.000 a pattern

00:31:45.640 onto the,

00:31:46.680 onto the,

00:31:47.940 onto reality,

00:31:48.720 it's like,

00:31:49.280 how do you know

00:31:49.820 if it really

00:31:50.320 matches,

00:31:51.180 well maybe two

00:31:51.920 examples isn't

00:31:52.720 good enough,

00:31:53.820 so then you need

00:31:54.500 another example,

00:31:55.360 so here's,

00:31:56.460 here's another

00:31:56.940 example,

00:31:58.480 so,

00:31:59.740 and it has to do

00:32:00.560 with the structure

00:32:01.600 of stories,

00:32:02.940 so this would be

00:32:04.380 an example drawn

00:32:05.480 from lived experience,

00:32:07.280 so let's say,

00:32:09.560 we use the example

00:32:15.640 of things falling

00:32:16.460 apart on you,

00:32:17.840 so there's this

00:32:18.680 idea in literature

00:32:20.900 that is associated

00:32:21.900 with the descent

00:32:22.740 to the underworld,

00:32:24.180 onto a trip to hell, 0.97

00:32:25.380 let's say,

00:32:25.740 but before hell

00:32:27.340 was an organized

00:32:28.180 conceptualization,

00:32:29.140 it was more like

00:32:29.740 a trip to the

00:32:32.540 underworld,

00:32:33.200 right,

00:32:33.720 so it's a

00:32:36.640 mythological motif

00:32:37.980 and you see it

00:32:38.920 reflected in stories

00:32:40.880 like The Hobbit,

00:32:43.680 which is a retelling,

00:32:44.840 by the way,

00:32:45.220 a very,

00:32:45.900 very old story,

00:32:46.640 in fact,

00:32:47.120 the oldest story

00:32:48.020 that there is,

00:32:49.060 I would say,

00:32:50.120 and Tolkien knew

00:32:51.680 this, 0.76

00:32:52.280 he wasn't stupid, 0.99

00:32:53.700 he was an Oxford 0.98

00:32:54.440 professor,

00:32:55.500 he knew perfectly

00:32:56.180 well what he was

00:32:56.900 doing and he knew

00:32:57.540 that he was taking

00:32:58.620 a very old story,

00:33:00.080 which is a variant

00:33:00.660 of St. George

00:33:01.400 and the Dragon,

00:33:02.340 which is a variant

00:33:03.000 of a story that's

00:33:03.720 even older than that,

00:33:05.040 and he was retelling

00:33:05.860 it,

00:33:06.180 and it's not fluke

00:33:07.860 that those stories

00:33:11.920 were overwhelmingly

00:33:14.820 popular that sold,

00:33:15.880 they sold millions

00:33:16.480 of copies,

00:33:17.160 they'd be made

00:33:17.600 into incredibly

00:33:18.620 high-budget movies

00:33:19.660 and everyone

00:33:20.100 knows the story,

00:33:21.340 you know,

00:33:21.580 the hobbits in

00:33:22.360 their little

00:33:22.760 circumscribed and

00:33:24.180 safe domain,

00:33:26.080 that's order,

00:33:28.040 and then,

00:33:28.720 you know,

00:33:29.200 in the geography

00:33:31.620 of The Hobbit,

00:33:34.640 the perimeter of

00:33:36.160 the Shire is

00:33:37.780 patrolled by the

00:33:39.160 descendants of

00:33:40.060 great kings,

00:33:41.380 the Striders,

00:33:42.080 Aragorn is one

00:33:43.480 of them,

00:33:44.120 and they protect

00:33:44.960 the hobbits,

00:33:46.300 who are these

00:33:46.680 little,

00:33:47.100 you know,

00:33:47.580 decent sort of

00:33:48.700 bourgeois people

00:33:49.500 who are very naive 0.94

00:33:50.420 and who have no 0.97

00:33:51.660 idea what the hell

00:33:52.580 is going on

00:33:53.200 outside their

00:33:53.880 borders,

00:33:54.520 out in the land

00:33:55.560 of chaos

00:33:56.260 where evil dwells,

00:33:58.020 right?

00:33:58.560 They're protected

00:33:59.280 from all that

00:34:00.020 and they're kind

00:34:00.680 of skeptical

00:34:01.220 of the Striders,

00:34:02.400 these ancestral

00:34:03.460 figures that

00:34:04.420 actually protect

00:34:05.280 their borders

00:34:05.900 because they're 0.99

00:34:07.180 so damn naive, 1.00

00:34:08.020 they don't know 1.00

00:34:08.780 that you need

00:34:09.460 ancestral figures

00:34:10.440 to protect

00:34:11.380 your borders,

00:34:12.360 to patrol

00:34:12.740 your borders

00:34:13.180 because they

00:34:14.240 don't know

00:34:14.640 of the horrors

00:34:15.320 that lurk

00:34:15.840 beyond the

00:34:17.160 domain of

00:34:18.220 naive order

00:34:19.740 and everyone

00:34:21.760 has some

00:34:22.200 intimation that

00:34:23.020 that's what

00:34:23.740 they're like,

00:34:24.520 right?

00:34:24.760 I mean,

00:34:25.020 when you read

00:34:25.420 The Hobbit,

00:34:25.920 you're supposed

00:34:26.280 to identify

00:34:27.100 with Bilbo,

00:34:30.560 is he the first

00:34:31.200 one?

00:34:31.540 I always get them

00:34:32.080 confused,

00:34:32.600 it's Bilbo

00:34:33.440 and then Frodo,

00:34:34.200 is it Frodo

00:34:34.720 and then Bilbo?

00:34:36.980 Frodo first?

00:34:38.500 Bilbo first. 0.96

00:34:39.620 Bilbo,

00:34:40.160 thank you,

00:34:40.760 yes,

00:34:41.240 Bilbo first, 0.98

00:34:42.420 Frodo in the

00:34:43.080 Lord of the Rings,

00:34:44.080 got it.

00:34:45.340 And so,

00:34:46.320 what is,

00:34:47.000 what is Bilbo

00:34:49.220 do?

00:34:50.640 Well,

00:34:51.040 he does a couple

00:34:51.700 of things,

00:34:52.280 he,

00:34:53.180 under the,

00:34:54.580 there's a call

00:34:55.080 to adventure

00:34:55.620 for Bilbo,

00:34:56.580 essentially,

00:34:57.420 it's mediated

00:34:58.020 at least in part

00:34:58.940 by the wizard

00:34:59.560 Gandalf,

00:35:00.440 who's a kind

00:35:00.800 of a god-like

00:35:01.520 figure,

00:35:02.400 you know,

00:35:02.620 he's an

00:35:02.920 approximation to

00:35:04.060 God,

00:35:04.600 let's say,

00:35:05.320 he's a wizard

00:35:05.880 after all,

00:35:06.940 and he tells

00:35:08.300 the Hobbit,

00:35:08.820 even though

00:35:09.520 he's a little

00:35:09.920 guy,

00:35:10.740 that there's a

00:35:11.560 hell of a lot

00:35:12.020 more to him

00:35:13.000 than he knows,

00:35:14.780 and that he

00:35:15.140 should get the

00:35:15.680 hell out of

00:35:16.180 his little 0.93

00:35:16.540 naive box,

00:35:18.560 and go out

00:35:19.140 there and

00:35:19.660 take on the

00:35:21.300 suffering and

00:35:22.340 malevolence of

00:35:23.020 the world,

00:35:23.400 and that's

00:35:24.500 exactly what

00:35:25.920 happens,

00:35:26.780 although in

00:35:27.400 a strange

00:35:28.300 way,

00:35:28.960 what Bilbo

00:35:29.960 has to do

00:35:30.840 is to become 0.60

00:35:31.560 a thief,

00:35:32.900 it's so

00:35:33.480 interesting,

00:35:34.160 it's a very

00:35:34.680 good example

00:35:35.200 of the idea

00:35:35.840 of the

00:35:36.100 union

00:35:36.360 incorporation

00:35:37.660 of the

00:35:37.940 shadow,

00:35:38.620 because for

00:35:39.760 Bilbo to

00:35:40.300 stop just

00:35:40.940 being a 0.90

00:35:41.320 naive Hobbit,

00:35:42.060 he has to

00:35:42.520 become a

00:35:43.320 very skilled

00:35:43.900 thief,

00:35:44.480 so he has

00:35:44.880 to become

00:35:45.220 worse before

00:35:46.040 he becomes

00:35:46.560 better,

00:35:47.520 it's very,

00:35:47.980 very interesting,

00:35:48.460 you see a

00:35:49.380 bit of that

00:35:49.800 in Breaking

00:35:50.260 Bad,

00:35:51.620 you know,

00:35:52.340 well,

00:35:52.960 Breaking Bad

00:35:53.600 is really

00:35:53.980 interesting,

00:35:54.600 because you

00:35:55.840 can't really

00:35:56.380 tell if the

00:35:57.440 teacher,

00:35:58.040 the protagonist,

00:35:59.280 was worse

00:35:59.940 before he

00:36:00.560 became bad,

00:36:01.380 or worse

00:36:02.900 afterward,

00:36:03.960 because whatever

00:36:05.080 he became was

00:36:05.820 there to begin

00:36:06.420 with,

00:36:06.660 he just didn't

00:36:07.260 bloody well

00:36:07.700 know about

00:36:08.220 it,

00:36:09.180 and he can't

00:36:10.760 even tell the

00:36:11.400 difference between

00:36:12.180 his original

00:36:13.040 morality and

00:36:13.960 cowardice, 0.99

00:36:15.740 and his wife

00:36:16.380 certainly can't,

00:36:17.600 and they're all

00:36:18.020 attracted by

00:36:18.900 that dark

00:36:19.540 side,

00:36:20.300 and that's

00:36:20.680 because there's

00:36:21.560 something that

00:36:22.080 beckons beyond

00:36:23.240 naivety,

00:36:24.900 and that's

00:36:25.240 partly why the

00:36:25.800 criminal is such

00:36:26.540 an attractive 0.55

00:36:27.080 figure in

00:36:27.760 literature,

00:36:28.880 it's like,

00:36:29.400 you think you're

00:36:30.100 good,

00:36:30.520 it's like,

00:36:30.920 you're not

00:36:31.260 good,

00:36:32.440 you're just a 0.99

00:36:33.140 hobbit, 0.95

00:36:34.240 right,

00:36:35.320 you're protected

00:36:36.260 against all sorts

00:36:37.180 of things,

00:36:37.620 including those

00:36:38.220 things that might

00:36:38.800 corrupt you, 0.88

00:36:40.200 and the fact that

00:36:41.040 you haven't been

00:36:41.680 exposed to enough

00:36:42.780 temptation to

00:36:43.680 corrupt you, 0.88

00:36:44.540 doesn't mean you're

00:36:45.300 good,

00:36:46.040 it just means you're

00:36:47.020 naive,

00:36:48.020 and so it's

00:36:48.920 very frequently

00:36:49.660 the case that

00:36:50.500 to go from

00:36:51.760 naive to

00:36:53.620 good,

00:36:54.000 you have to

00:36:54.460 pass through

00:36:55.160 something that's

00:36:56.300 very,

00:36:56.700 very dark,

00:36:57.560 now,

00:36:58.500 so Bilbo to

00:36:59.880 some degree has

00:37:00.520 to come to

00:37:01.160 grips with the

00:37:02.220 capacity and

00:37:03.260 even the

00:37:03.660 necessity maybe

00:37:04.620 of malevolence

00:37:05.720 within himself,

00:37:06.440 but he's also

00:37:06.920 called upon to

00:37:08.000 go out into the

00:37:08.780 unknown and to

00:37:10.140 go down to the

00:37:11.020 bottom of things

00:37:11.900 and to find the

00:37:12.980 great serpent and

00:37:14.680 to contend with

00:37:15.540 it,

00:37:15.900 right,

00:37:16.140 and he turns

00:37:16.880 out to be the

00:37:17.400 hero of the

00:37:17.840 story because he

00:37:18.540 goes and

00:37:18.920 confronts the

00:37:19.480 dragon and he

00:37:20.540 gets the gold and

00:37:21.740 then he brings it

00:37:22.340 back to his

00:37:22.900 community and

00:37:23.940 revitalizes it,

00:37:24.740 it's a complete

00:37:25.160 hero myth,

00:37:26.160 out to the

00:37:26.700 unknown and

00:37:27.280 back,

00:37:28.340 and okay,

00:37:28.880 so that's another

00:37:29.600 layer,

00:37:30.480 it's the same

00:37:31.160 structure,

00:37:32.900 known territory

00:37:34.940 outside that

00:37:36.620 unknown territory,

00:37:37.740 and then there's

00:37:38.560 another kind of

00:37:39.500 an interesting

00:37:40.140 symbolic overlay

00:37:42.800 on that because

00:37:43.580 you have the

00:37:44.300 introduction of

00:37:45.000 the serpentine

00:37:47.460 form,

00:37:47.980 that's lurking in

00:37:48.880 the yin and yang

00:37:49.420 symbol because

00:37:50.020 that's two serpents

00:37:51.060 head to head,

00:37:52.080 anyway,

00:37:52.680 so that's there in

00:37:53.920 a latent sense in

00:37:55.280 the yin and yang

00:37:55.920 symbol,

00:37:56.660 but it's more

00:37:57.140 developed in the

00:37:58.480 hobbit,

00:37:59.380 and so the notion

00:38:00.600 is he who prevails

00:38:02.340 is he who develops

00:38:04.560 his capacity for,

00:38:07.180 what would you say,

00:38:09.540 for aggression and

00:38:10.860 courage,

00:38:11.300 something like

00:38:12.280 that,

00:38:13.260 sufficiently to

00:38:14.260 confront the

00:38:15.340 horror that

00:38:16.020 dwells underneath

00:38:17.660 the structure of

00:38:18.780 reality,

00:38:20.080 well that's where

00:38:20.760 you go when the

00:38:21.380 bottom falls out

00:38:22.460 of your life,

00:38:23.680 and the bottom

00:38:24.660 falls out of your

00:38:25.340 life a lot,

00:38:26.580 and so it's good

00:38:27.300 to be prepared

00:38:28.080 for that,

00:38:29.120 and to be prepared

00:38:30.180 for the bottom

00:38:32.100 falling out of

00:38:32.800 your life means

00:38:33.500 you don't get to

00:38:34.400 be naive,

00:38:35.620 and you might

00:38:36.200 think,

00:38:36.580 well why should we

00:38:37.280 believe that,

00:38:37.940 well you can read

00:38:39.420 the clinical

00:38:39.840 literature,

00:38:40.280 you want to

00:38:41.260 develop post-traumatic

00:38:42.260 stress disorder,

00:38:43.660 the best way to

00:38:44.620 start that is to

00:38:45.480 be naive,

00:38:47.040 it's not enough,

00:38:49.380 because to develop

00:38:50.500 post-traumatic stress

00:38:51.420 disorder you have to

00:38:52.200 be naive,

00:38:53.620 and then you have

00:38:54.440 to have contact

00:38:55.180 with something

00:38:55.740 malevolent,

00:38:57.260 and the combination

00:38:58.000 of those two

00:38:58.820 things will give

00:38:59.620 you post-traumatic

00:39:00.540 stress disorder,

00:39:02.040 and so the way to

00:39:03.200 avoid post-traumatic

00:39:04.320 stress disorder is

00:39:05.180 not to encounter

00:39:06.080 something malevolent,

00:39:07.520 but sometimes that's

00:39:08.400 not in your control,

00:39:09.340 the other way to

00:39:10.840 avoid it is to

00:39:11.580 not be naive,

00:39:14.160 and the thing is

00:39:14.860 people confuse,

00:39:15.920 this is a Nietzschean

00:39:16.880 comment,

00:39:17.320 people confuse

00:39:18.200 naivety with

00:39:19.580 virtue,

00:39:20.760 and that's a big

00:39:21.720 mistake,

00:39:22.660 and that's why

00:39:23.220 these stories

00:39:23.900 emerge constantly,

00:39:25.520 Harry Potter is

00:39:26.180 the same thing,

00:39:27.940 so Potter has to

00:39:29.480 take on malevolence,

00:39:30.720 right,

00:39:31.040 in the form of

00:39:31.920 Voldemort,

00:39:32.660 and the only reason

00:39:33.600 he can do it is

00:39:34.360 because he's touched

00:39:35.220 by the serpent

00:39:36.220 himself,

00:39:37.160 right,

00:39:38.340 maybe he belongs

00:39:40.020 in the house

00:39:40.660 of Slytherin,

00:39:42.400 and he's got a,

00:39:43.680 I think he has a

00:39:44.360 piece of Voldemort's

00:39:46.120 soul lodged inside

00:39:47.460 him,

00:39:47.740 isn't that what

00:39:48.960 gives him the

00:39:49.800 ability to speak

00:39:50.740 with snakes,

00:39:52.220 right,

00:39:52.720 and he's always

00:39:53.180 breaking rules

00:39:54.160 non-stop,

00:39:54.980 him and his

00:39:55.400 friends,

00:39:55.940 it's like,

00:39:56.620 you know,

00:39:57.020 they have their

00:39:58.400 friends in Hogwarts,

00:39:59.860 and some of them

00:40:00.360 like Neville Longbottom

00:40:01.540 are a little bit

00:40:02.120 too ensconced in

00:40:03.940 order,

00:40:04.440 and unwilling to

00:40:05.240 break a rule

00:40:05.880 when necessary,

00:40:06.760 but the main

00:40:07.580 protagonists of

00:40:08.700 the lengthy story

00:40:10.360 are Hermione

00:40:11.820 and Ron

00:40:12.380 and Harry,

00:40:13.520 and they're just

00:40:13.920 breaking rules

00:40:14.540 non-stop,

00:40:16.460 so there's

00:40:17.200 something about,

00:40:17.920 and part of that

00:40:18.700 is a consequence

00:40:20.180 of Harry's,

00:40:23.500 the fact that

00:40:24.760 he has enough

00:40:25.820 evil within him

00:40:26.560 so that he can

00:40:27.140 understand it,

00:40:27.880 he can understand

00:40:28.560 malevolence,

00:40:29.940 and that gives him

00:40:31.160 a certain kind of

00:40:31.780 power as well

00:40:32.460 because it also

00:40:33.080 makes him tough

00:40:34.240 and aggressive enough 1.00

00:40:35.080 to break stupid 1.00

00:40:36.060 rules when it's 1.00

00:40:36.940 necessary,

00:40:38.160 even though,

00:40:38.640 you know,

00:40:39.580 naive morality

00:40:40.520 that would encapsulate

00:40:41.480 you only within

00:40:42.240 what you know

00:40:42.860 would say,

00:40:43.420 never break a rule,

00:40:44.820 the way to be good

00:40:45.560 is to follow the

00:40:46.220 rules,

00:40:46.520 and there's

00:40:46.860 something to that

00:40:47.660 because if you're

00:40:48.200 not capable of

00:40:49.060 following rules,

00:40:49.980 you're completely 1.00

00:40:50.900 useless, 1.00

00:40:52.080 and that's partly 0.93

00:40:52.820 why I wrote

00:40:54.120 12 rules for life,

00:40:55.440 even though,

00:40:56.260 well,

00:40:57.420 you know,

00:40:59.400 even though I know,

00:41:00.480 I know that

00:41:01.980 to fully reveal

00:41:05.020 yourself as a

00:41:05.880 moral individual,

00:41:06.960 you have to do

00:41:08.060 more than follow

00:41:08.820 rules,

00:41:09.880 but to start to do

00:41:11.440 that,

00:41:11.800 you at least have

00:41:12.700 to be able to

00:41:13.460 follow them to

00:41:14.280 begin with,

00:41:15.720 right,

00:41:16.040 and so that's

00:41:16.780 another thing,

00:41:17.360 you don't want to

00:41:17.960 think that you're

00:41:18.720 a desperate

00:41:19.940 adventurer on the

00:41:22.060 high seas when

00:41:23.380 you're just an

00:41:24.060 undisciplined and 1.00

00:41:25.540 useless lout, 0.98

00:41:26.980 those are not the 0.99

00:41:27.960 same thing,

00:41:29.460 right,

00:41:29.800 so you might say

00:41:31.140 that you have a

00:41:32.440 right to break the

00:41:33.300 rules once you've

00:41:34.280 mastered the rules,

00:41:35.840 but not before,

00:41:37.400 and you see that in

00:41:38.100 all sorts of domains,

00:41:39.020 so if you're a

00:41:39.560 musician,

00:41:40.420 the great musicians,

00:41:41.620 you know,

00:41:41.820 you listen to a

00:41:42.400 great violinist,

00:41:43.580 anybody who's really

00:41:44.400 good with an

00:41:45.100 acoustic instrument,

00:41:46.940 they know how to

00:41:47.800 do things perfectly,

00:41:48.740 and then they know

00:41:49.180 how to twist it a

00:41:50.520 little bit so that

00:41:51.240 every note,

00:41:52.040 it's got a little

00:41:52.540 torturous edge on it,

00:41:53.940 you know,

00:41:54.380 because they're almost

00:41:55.360 breaking the rule,

00:41:56.780 and it makes the

00:41:57.600 music haunting and

00:41:59.300 powerful because

00:42:00.780 they're daring to

00:42:01.900 push their

00:42:03.100 interaction with

00:42:04.180 order right out to

00:42:05.520 the edge of chaos,

00:42:06.680 and you can hear

00:42:07.240 them,

00:42:07.700 well,

00:42:07.980 that's why they're

00:42:08.460 playing music,

00:42:09.360 you can hear them

00:42:09.880 doing that all the

00:42:11.120 time with their

00:42:11.720 musical instrument,

00:42:12.600 and that makes a

00:42:13.760 remarkable,

00:42:15.000 remarkable performance,

00:42:16.380 I mean,

00:42:16.600 it's something to

00:42:17.320 hear someone play a

00:42:18.360 piece of music

00:42:18.900 perfectly,

00:42:19.880 but it's someone,

00:42:21.120 it's really something

00:42:22.260 to hear someone who

00:42:23.240 could play a piece of

00:42:24.500 music perfectly,

00:42:26.280 play it imperfectly,

00:42:27.600 on purpose,

00:42:29.020 that's really

00:42:30.000 something,

00:42:30.580 you think,

00:42:31.020 man,

00:42:31.680 that grips you in a

00:42:33.260 way that mere

00:42:34.220 perfection can't,

00:42:37.440 okay,

00:42:37.880 so that's the next

00:42:38.940 level,

00:42:39.460 so we've got the

00:42:40.160 neuropsychological

00:42:40.920 level,

00:42:41.300 and we've got the

00:42:42.640 Taoist conceptual

00:42:43.780 level,

00:42:44.680 and we've got the

00:42:45.940 narrative level,

00:42:49.060 now I laid out two

00:42:50.460 narrative levels,

00:42:51.660 so that's four

00:42:52.320 levels,

00:42:53.140 so then we can

00:42:53.800 think about this in

00:42:54.560 your own life,

00:42:56.480 this is where you

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00:45:55.440 people tell stories

00:46:01.560 all the time

00:46:02.120 about the bottom

00:46:02.880 dropping out

00:46:03.480 of their life

00:46:04.040 I made reference

00:46:05.740 to that before

00:46:06.440 example I've often

00:46:07.920 used with my students

00:46:09.280 is

00:46:09.620 imagine you want

00:46:12.640 to go to medical school

00:46:13.640 so you think

00:46:15.340 you're pretty smart

00:46:16.020 because otherwise

00:46:16.680 you wouldn't be thinking

00:46:17.480 about going to medical school

00:46:18.520 so you probably thought

00:46:20.000 you were pretty smart

00:46:20.640 in the past

00:46:21.200 and you think

00:46:21.840 you're pretty smart

00:46:22.360 in the present

00:46:22.780 and you presume

00:46:23.800 you're going to continue

00:46:25.080 to be pretty smart

00:46:25.880 into the future

00:46:26.640 and then you go

00:46:27.800 write the MCAT

00:46:28.680 which is a standardized

00:46:29.660 test that you have

00:46:31.120 to write

00:46:31.420 if you're going to

00:46:31.760 go to medical school

00:46:32.500 and you need

00:46:33.920 about 95th percentile

00:46:36.760 to qualify

00:46:37.860 as a medical student

00:46:38.900 which means

00:46:39.320 you have to do

00:46:39.780 better than 95%

00:46:41.100 of the people

00:46:41.740 who write the test

00:46:42.580 which means

00:46:43.740 19 out of 20 people

00:46:45.360 are quite disappointed

00:46:46.460 and you know

00:46:47.240 one out of five

00:46:48.120 of those people

00:46:48.740 scores 20th percentile

00:46:50.420 or less

00:46:50.920 and so maybe

00:46:52.480 you're a student

00:46:54.480 who wants to go

00:46:55.080 to medical school

00:46:55.820 and you've been

00:46:56.940 studying a long time

00:46:57.860 and you write the MCAT

00:46:58.740 and the results

00:46:59.180 come back

00:46:59.580 it's like 20th percentile

00:47:01.240 it's like

00:47:02.380 what the hell

00:47:03.980 are you going to do

00:47:04.440 with that piece

00:47:04.980 of information 1.00

00:47:05.660 bitch a lot 1.00

00:47:08.480 about the test 0.99

00:47:09.480 that'll be

00:47:10.860 the first thing

00:47:11.600 and no bloody wonder

00:47:13.180 because what's

00:47:14.240 the alternative

00:47:14.880 you know

00:47:16.880 not as smart

00:47:17.920 as you thought

00:47:18.420 you were

00:47:18.820 you never were

00:47:20.240 as smart

00:47:20.800 as you thought

00:47:21.400 you were

00:47:21.760 well that's

00:47:22.560 a lot more

00:47:23.180 terrifying right

00:47:24.140 because that means

00:47:25.260 you had this

00:47:25.860 conception of yourself

00:47:27.260 that you relied

00:47:28.480 on for a very

00:47:29.200 long period of time

00:47:30.180 and now that's

00:47:31.140 unstable

00:47:31.720 and like it's

00:47:32.620 one thing to have

00:47:33.300 the present

00:47:33.840 destabilized

00:47:34.700 I mean that's

00:47:35.200 annoying

00:47:35.600 and it's certainly

00:47:36.660 no fun to have

00:47:37.460 the future

00:47:37.900 destabilized

00:47:38.580 and by the way

00:47:39.320 that also happens

00:47:40.180 to you

00:47:40.480 when you score

00:47:41.400 20th percentile

00:47:42.400 on the MCAT

00:47:43.080 but it's a

00:47:43.780 completely different

00:47:44.580 thing to have 0.99

00:47:45.160 the damn past 0.99

00:47:46.220 destabilized 1.00

00:47:47.200 because you thought

00:47:48.000 you already had

00:47:48.720 all that

00:47:49.180 taken care of

00:47:50.320 and turns out

00:47:51.580 no

00:47:51.900 there are

00:47:52.720 pieces of

00:47:53.340 information

00:47:53.820 that can be

00:47:54.340 delivered to you

00:47:55.000 that not only

00:47:55.660 destabilize

00:47:56.480 your present

00:47:57.040 and your future

00:47:57.900 but also

00:47:58.460 your past

00:47:59.360 so that's

00:48:00.560 another example

00:48:01.280 of how you can

00:48:02.000 just

00:48:02.240 how you can

00:48:02.960 encounter

00:48:03.440 chaos

00:48:04.580 you're in an

00:48:05.620 orderly domain

00:48:06.360 you have your

00:48:07.080 conceptions of

00:48:07.780 yourself organized

00:48:08.640 and all of a

00:48:09.760 sudden you run

00:48:10.360 into a piece

00:48:10.880 of information

00:48:11.540 that suggests

00:48:12.640 that something

00:48:13.320 is fundamentally

00:48:14.800 wrong about

00:48:15.980 the way you're

00:48:16.740 organizing your

00:48:17.680 world

00:48:18.200 and people

00:48:19.700 now you know

00:48:20.840 maybe

00:48:21.140 if you're sensible

00:48:22.820 it might take

00:48:24.060 a year or so

00:48:24.840 you think

00:48:25.760 well I didn't

00:48:26.720 really need to

00:48:27.300 be a doctor

00:48:28.020 I just wanted

00:48:29.060 to help people

00:48:29.920 there's other

00:48:30.620 health professions

00:48:31.440 I could enter

00:48:32.180 doesn't mean 0.97

00:48:32.860 my whole damn 0.98

00:48:33.540 life is over 0.99

00:48:34.380 it doesn't mean

00:48:34.820 I have to jump

00:48:35.400 off a bridge

00:48:36.220 you know

00:48:37.040 but that sort

00:48:37.840 of blow

00:48:38.180 can really

00:48:38.580 knock people 0.98

00:48:39.160 for a loop

00:48:39.840 and so it's

00:48:40.820 not that easy

00:48:41.420 to reconstitute

00:48:42.680 yourself

00:48:43.220 after encountering

00:48:44.560 something that

00:48:45.840 shatters your

00:48:46.720 presuppositions

00:48:48.160 and they can be

00:48:50.120 shattered in that

00:48:51.000 manner

00:48:51.340 they can be

00:48:52.240 shattered if you

00:48:52.920 have a relationship

00:48:53.640 with someone

00:48:54.180 let's say it's an

00:48:54.860 intimate relationship

00:48:55.660 and you trust

00:48:56.780 them

00:48:57.040 so you have a

00:48:57.660 particular view

00:48:58.360 of them

00:48:58.840 you have a

00:48:59.480 particular model

00:49:00.180 of them

00:49:00.600 and use that

00:49:01.720 model as a

00:49:02.360 predicate for a

00:49:03.180 lot of your

00:49:03.600 perceptions and

00:49:04.360 your actions

00:49:04.880 and then they

00:49:05.760 betray you

00:49:06.520 that's a rough

00:49:07.720 one

00:49:08.020 in Dante's

00:49:08.980 Inferno

00:49:09.480 Dante's Inferno

00:49:10.960 is a story about

00:49:11.920 a journey into

00:49:12.660 the structure of

00:49:13.300 evil

00:49:13.580 I don't know if

00:49:14.500 you know that

00:49:14.980 but that's what

00:49:15.700 it is

00:49:16.040 it was an

00:49:17.440 attempt to

00:49:18.180 produce a

00:49:19.180 hierarchy of

00:49:19.980 evil

00:49:20.300 and Dante

00:49:21.600 put the

00:49:22.080 betrayers

00:49:22.740 right at the

00:49:24.280 bottom

00:49:24.620 in the worst

00:49:25.920 part of hell

00:49:26.640 and I think

00:49:27.540 that's really

00:49:28.060 good because

00:49:28.700 I don't think

00:49:29.620 there is

00:49:30.120 anything that

00:49:31.460 disturbs people

00:49:32.340 more than being

00:49:33.140 betrayed

00:49:33.660 right because

00:49:34.920 it destroys

00:49:36.140 your fundamental

00:49:37.200 trust in

00:49:38.140 humanity

00:49:38.820 and that's

00:49:40.100 rough

00:49:40.660 and you know

00:49:41.500 most people

00:49:42.300 are betrayed

00:49:43.040 in their life

00:49:44.100 if they're not

00:49:45.300 betrayed by

00:49:45.820 someone else

00:49:46.440 then they're

00:49:47.280 betrayed by

00:49:47.860 themselves

00:49:48.420 and so

00:49:49.580 and that can

00:49:50.540 knock the

00:49:51.080 bottom out of

00:49:51.780 things and

00:49:52.260 we know what

00:49:52.900 it means to

00:49:53.400 knock the

00:49:53.760 bottom out of

00:49:54.240 things everyone

00:49:54.700 understands that

00:49:55.340 that's what

00:49:55.760 jaws was about

00:49:56.920 is the bottom

00:49:58.300 coming out of

00:49:59.120 things right

00:49:59.860 and that's an

00:50:00.520 ancient it's the

00:50:01.380 same ancient

00:50:01.980 story of

00:50:02.720 conflict with

00:50:03.940 the beast

00:50:05.040 that lives in

00:50:06.020 the bottom

00:50:06.480 of the abyss

00:50:07.420 and that's the

00:50:08.340 thing that

00:50:08.760 represents what

00:50:09.600 takes the

00:50:10.240 bottom out of

00:50:11.040 things or even

00:50:11.880 what lurks in

00:50:12.680 the bottom

00:50:13.140 and so there's

00:50:14.240 an idea that

00:50:15.640 runs through

00:50:16.460 literature and

00:50:17.500 mythology that

00:50:18.340 there is a

00:50:19.200 terrible thing

00:50:20.000 that lurks

00:50:20.900 underneath everything

00:50:21.880 and that it

00:50:22.900 can make its

00:50:23.840 emergence

00:50:24.320 that's the

00:50:25.880 story that's 0.99

00:50:26.720 every damn 0.96

00:50:27.420 horror story ever 0.99

00:50:28.620 written it can

00:50:29.840 make its

00:50:30.240 emergence and

00:50:31.000 take you down

00:50:32.220 and the

00:50:33.020 proper response

00:50:34.960 to that isn't

00:50:35.560 to cower in

00:50:36.320 your room under

00:50:37.180 the blankets

00:50:37.740 even though

00:50:38.320 anyone with

00:50:38.880 any sense would

00:50:39.600 want to do

00:50:40.000 that but to

00:50:40.520 go down into

00:50:41.680 the lair of

00:50:42.300 the beast

00:50:42.700 itself and to

00:50:44.020 encounter it

00:50:44.660 which is what

00:50:45.060 happens in

00:50:45.480 the hobbit

00:50:45.880 which is what

00:50:47.040 happens in

00:50:47.560 Pinocchio

00:50:48.060 you've all

00:50:48.520 watched Pinocchio

00:50:49.360 right

00:50:49.700 Pinocchio is a

00:50:51.060 movie about

00:50:51.700 it's an animated

00:50:53.660 movie so it's

00:50:54.580 drawings so it's

00:50:55.840 drawings it's

00:50:56.920 unbelievably removed

00:50:58.480 from reality

00:50:59.260 right it's

00:51:00.340 drawings about

00:51:02.100 a puppet it's

00:51:03.920 not even about

00:51:04.560 a puppet it's

00:51:05.040 not even a

00:51:05.500 puppet it's

00:51:06.080 drawings of a

00:51:06.900 puppet and a

00:51:09.160 marionette yeah

00:51:10.040 who's being who's

00:51:11.220 who's being played

00:51:12.780 right a marionette

00:51:13.860 is something that

00:51:15.800 is operated by

00:51:16.800 someone else

00:51:17.700 pulling its

00:51:18.840 strings and so

00:51:19.960 there's an

00:51:20.320 intimation in

00:51:21.080 Pinocchio that

00:51:21.660 that's who we

00:51:22.780 are we're

00:51:24.260 marionettes who 1.00

00:51:26.300 are being moved

00:51:28.260 by forces that

00:51:29.280 are beyond our

00:51:30.000 comprehension and

00:51:31.360 perhaps if we

00:51:32.740 have a benevolent

00:51:33.500 father and a

00:51:34.340 little bit of

00:51:34.720 intercession from

00:51:35.600 nature in the

00:51:36.760 form of the

00:51:37.260 blue fairy then

00:51:38.520 we can lose our

00:51:39.320 strings and start

00:51:40.360 on the process of

00:51:41.940 individual development

00:51:43.660 to become something

00:51:44.900 that isn't just a

00:51:45.760 naive puppet or a 1.00

00:51:47.780 brain jackass which 1.00

00:51:49.600 is also what 0.99

00:51:50.200 Pinocchio transforms

00:51:51.160 into right a 1.00

00:51:52.100 lying brain jackass 1.00

00:51:53.760 as he moves through 1.00

00:51:54.800 his transformation

00:51:55.560 cycle and in

00:51:57.280 order to to fully

00:52:00.820 manifest himself as

00:52:02.700 autonomous he has

00:52:04.260 to go down to the

00:52:05.240 bottom of the deep

00:52:07.580 to the deepest

00:52:08.500 possible place to

00:52:10.180 the place where

00:52:10.720 everything is afraid

00:52:12.100 all the fish leave

00:52:13.460 right to the monster

00:52:15.000 that lurks at the

00:52:16.140 very bottom of the

00:52:16.940 ocean and in that

00:52:19.180 monster he finds his

00:52:20.700 father and rescues him

00:52:22.660 and brings him back up

00:52:23.560 to the surface I

00:52:24.600 I didn't actually

00:52:25.320 understand what the

00:52:26.520 hell that meant I

00:52:27.620 still don't understand

00:52:28.420 it completely because

00:52:29.360 you can't it's an

00:52:30.980 inexhaustible story but

00:52:33.060 I figured this out

00:52:33.760 about three days ago

00:52:35.860 when I was talking

00:52:37.040 about this again I

00:52:37.980 thought because there's

00:52:38.880 this idea that if you

00:52:40.320 go to the edge and you

00:52:41.200 look over the abyss you

00:52:42.260 see a monster lurking

00:52:43.420 down there and then if

00:52:44.460 you go down into the

00:52:45.180 monster you find your

00:52:46.040 father it's like what

00:52:47.280 the hell that why would

00:52:49.500 that be what what kind 0.75

00:52:51.380 of crazy idea is that I

00:52:53.400 would say what's even

00:52:54.080 crazier is you accept

00:52:56.080 that without question

00:52:57.400 like you watched

00:52:58.460 Pinocchio and it didn't

00:52:59.920 bother you that a 0.99

00:53:00.760 puppet with jackass 0.99

00:53:02.040 ears was following a 0.99

00:53:03.520 cricket to the bottom

00:53:04.680 of the ocean into a

00:53:06.160 whale that breathed

00:53:07.400 fire by the way so it

00:53:09.220 was actually a dragon to

00:53:10.820 rescue his father it's

00:53:12.240 like yeah no problem no

00:53:14.680 problem well think about

00:53:15.960 that it's completely

00:53:16.900 insane you know like why

00:53:19.660 would the why would you

00:53:20.840 be willing to suspend

00:53:22.040 disbelief to follow that

00:53:24.000 story well it's because

00:53:25.740 it fits an archetypal

00:53:26.900 pattern so so what I

00:53:28.680 realized the other day

00:53:29.760 was so so here's a

00:53:32.840 couple of things the

00:53:33.760 first thing is is that if

00:53:36.380 you take on successive

00:53:37.600 challenges you could say

00:53:41.200 going to the bottom of

00:53:42.220 the world and rescuing

00:53:43.240 your fault going to the

00:53:44.320 bottom of the world and

00:53:45.100 encountering the ultimate

00:53:46.120 monster is the ultimate

00:53:47.540 challenge you could say

00:53:48.980 that's challenge as such

00:53:50.460 but you can you can face

00:53:51.940 smaller challenges in your

00:53:53.340 life they're like small

00:53:54.440 monsters you know just

00:53:55.920 lizards maybe not not the

00:53:57.880 whole bloody dragon just

00:53:59.100 lizards this big that's all

00:54:01.100 and and you can deal with

00:54:02.660 those things and but you're

00:54:04.400 laying out the pattern and

00:54:05.620 by challenging yourself that

00:54:07.500 way you you you inform

00:54:09.600 yourself you become more

00:54:11.820 developed partly because well

00:54:14.500 because you're gathering

00:54:15.300 information you know if you

00:54:16.540 if you deal with a bunch of

00:54:18.140 different kinds of people

00:54:19.080 that's a challenging thing

00:54:20.120 to do especially if you're

00:54:21.020 introverted not very

00:54:21.940 socially skilled you go out

00:54:23.260 there and you meet 200

00:54:24.080 people you have to get

00:54:25.300 along with them it's like

00:54:26.320 you're way more informed at

00:54:27.700 the end of that than you

00:54:28.600 were at the beginning maybe

00:54:29.780 you you you you you you

00:54:31.840 take your degree or you

00:54:33.000 develop some new skills or

00:54:34.420 you learn to play a musical

00:54:35.620 instrument or or maybe you

00:54:37.520 you get over your fear of

00:54:38.980 dating you know and you

00:54:40.080 form a relationship or you

00:54:41.080 learn to speak publicly you 0.99

00:54:42.680 do some damn thing that you 0.99

00:54:44.720 were afraid of that requires 1.00

00:54:46.960 some skill you go do it you

00:54:48.280 get more informed okay so

00:54:50.240 so then you might think

00:54:51.540 well what do you turn into

00:54:53.680 if you get more informed

00:54:55.060 you're a more informed

00:54:56.920 person you have more form

00:54:59.580 that's what it means to be

00:55:00.940 more informed and you're

00:55:03.100 more information so you're

00:55:04.940 more organized because that's

00:55:07.220 what information does it puts

00:55:08.380 you in formation and so you

00:55:11.120 become more than who you are

00:55:12.680 by becoming informed but

00:55:15.000 here's some and and that

00:55:17.260 relates back to what I

00:55:18.820 talked about at the

00:55:19.600 beginning about the world

00:55:20.900 being made out of

00:55:21.620 information but there's more

00:55:23.380 to it than that so this is

00:55:25.500 something that's only been

00:55:26.420 discovered recently so let's

00:55:29.080 say you go somewhere you

00:55:30.140 haven't been and you you you

00:55:31.920 you take on a challenge it

00:55:33.660 actually matters that you take

00:55:35.020 on the challenge because if I

00:55:37.340 just stress you you have one

00:55:40.480 kind of physiological response

00:55:41.920 so it's let's say it's

00:55:42.700 involuntary here's a stressor

00:55:44.500 you have a bunch of stress

00:55:45.640 responses you're kind of 0.51

00:55:46.640 like a you're like a rabbit 0.53

00:55:48.300 you're like a prey animal

00:55:49.640 seriously that that's how

00:55:50.820 you respond that's that's

00:55:52.840 the circuitry that turns on

00:55:54.620 it's prey animal circuitry

00:55:56.820 you freeze right your heart

00:55:59.040 rate goes up you produce

00:56:00.000 cortisol it's a prey animal

00:56:01.860 response but if you take the

00:56:03.960 same stressor on voluntarily

00:56:05.780 whole different psychophysiological

00:56:08.200 pattern completely different

00:56:09.940 you don't produce stress

00:56:10.840 hormones for example so I

00:56:13.380 think it's because if the

00:56:15.380 thing is thrown at you then

00:56:17.620 you're a rabbit but if you

00:56:19.460 chase it then you're a wolf and 0.97

00:56:22.400 your body knows the difference

00:56:23.860 between being a rabbit and a

00:56:25.260 wolf so anyways when you take

00:56:28.200 on a stressor you put yourself

00:56:30.260 in a new situation your your DNA

00:56:34.580 in your brain codes for new

00:56:36.760 proteins and produces new

00:56:38.920 structures so that's an

00:56:40.900 interesting thing so what that

00:56:42.520 implies in some sense is that

00:56:44.020 you have an immense biological

00:56:45.500 potential much of that locked in

00:56:48.780 your genetic structure which will

00:56:51.380 not manifest itself until you demand

00:56:54.260 that it does you have to put

00:56:56.100 yourself well it's not it's not

00:56:57.860 that unbelievable I mean what

00:56:59.580 happens when you go to the gym is

00:57:01.920 you know you lift light weights to

00:57:03.620 begin with and then heavier weights

00:57:05.060 and heavier weights and you get

00:57:06.480 stronger and stronger you can get

00:57:08.440 stronger by lifting weights well

00:57:11.200 why couldn't you get to be more

00:57:14.140 than you are by challenging

00:57:15.540 yourself well you know you can

00:57:17.540 that's what you tell your kids you

00:57:18.920 don't want them just sitting in

00:57:19.980 their room hiding under their

00:57:21.660 covers you know you want them out

00:57:23.500 there encountering the world

00:57:24.540 because you know that in that

00:57:25.620 encounter they'll become more than

00:57:27.520 they are and who knows what the

00:57:29.720 ultimate limit to that is well

00:57:30.960 that's what that image portrays you

00:57:37.800 go to the abyss that's the edge of

00:57:40.180 everything you look down and you see

00:57:42.060 the worst possible thing but inside

00:57:44.860 that that's your father that's the

00:57:47.020 ancestral spirit right that's the 0.52

00:57:49.600 that's the that's the thing you could

00:57:52.140 become the thing you could become is

00:57:54.380 locked in the beast of in the belly of

00:57:56.560 the beast you're most afraid of that's

00:57:58.960 exactly what that image means that's

00:58:01.100 why Pinocchio has to go down to the

00:58:02.820 bottom of reality and rescue his

00:58:04.820 father he has to become his father

00:58:06.900 he has to become everything that all

00:58:09.900 of your ancestors were that's what you

00:58:12.160 have to become and the way you do

00:58:13.800 that is by taking on the maximal

00:58:15.500 challenge and so that's the next level

00:58:19.720 that's the next level all right so I've

00:58:26.100 been trying to work out so in the

00:58:31.320 Taoist view there's chaos and order

00:58:33.460 and the chaos let's say is underneath

00:58:36.080 the order and it's always threatening 0.94

00:58:39.080 to pop itself up to pop its ugly head 0.92

00:58:41.440 up and to terrify the life out of you 0.78

00:58:43.560 just like the shark in Jaws you see

00:58:46.460 that echoed as well most of you have

00:58:48.500 seen the second Harry Potter movie you

00:58:51.060 know there's a basilisk not one there's a

00:58:54.520 magic castle you don't have any problem

00:58:56.200 with that magic castle magical children

00:59:00.100 are in the magic castle underneath the

00:59:03.360 magic castle there's plumbing and in the

00:59:06.040 plumbing there's a giant snake and that's

00:59:08.920 all okay too then if you if you look at

00:59:11.660 the snake you turn to stone just like a

00:59:16.160 rabbit when it sees a wolf so that's what

00:59:19.180 that means that's why if you look at a

00:59:21.020 gorgon you turn to stone because that's a

00:59:23.700 symbol of that which terrifies you and

00:59:26.020 that will freeze you and so when Potter

00:59:30.020 has to undo the curse of the basilisk he

00:59:34.620 has to go down underneath the structure of

00:59:37.080 the magic castle into the depths to

00:59:40.360 encounter something that will poison him

00:59:42.400 which it does he rescues a virgin by the

00:59:45.540 way Ginevra Virginia virgin at St. George 0.91

00:59:50.700 and the dragon the reason for that is

00:59:52.700 that well there's a lot of complicated

00:59:54.960 reasons the virgin is partly a

00:59:58.520 representation of the soul that's one way

01:00:00.840 of thinking about it anima is soul anima is

01:00:05.440 feminine if you go to the darkest place 0.65

01:00:09.800 then you rescue your soul that's one level

01:00:11.960 of analysis but it's also the case that

01:00:14.560 you're maximally attractive to virgins if 1.00

01:00:17.980 you're courageous enough to confront the

01:00:19.860 serpent and that's as old a story as

01:00:23.320 there is that human beings have and

01:00:26.220 obviously that's the case so anyways Harry

01:00:30.180 goes down to the bottom with his bag of

01:00:32.260 tricks and his ability to be malevolent and

01:00:35.240 break rules when necessary and confronts this

01:00:38.420 basilisk which bites him because it's a

01:00:40.880 basilisk right this is no joke mess up die

01:00:45.480 right well that's life that's life because

01:00:50.720 you can die and if you mess up then you 0.72

01:00:53.840 die so it's no joke so he goes down to the

01:00:57.640 bottom and he gets bitten and then that

01:00:59.920 this is a side story but we'll use it this is

01:01:04.480 the comedic part of the story you go down

01:01:07.280 into the underworld and you everything but

01:01:11.000 die let's say maybe you even die he burst 0.94

01:01:13.580 back forward there's something in you that 0.74

01:01:15.680 can die and be reborn it's what happens to

01:01:18.620 Harry Potter multiple times by the way but

01:01:20.600 when he is bitten by the basilisk what

01:01:22.840 rescues him phoenix phoenix is the thing

01:01:27.000 that dies and can be reborn right and that's

01:01:29.580 partly that's partly a symbol of you because 0.96

01:01:32.740 you are the thing that can die in your

01:01:34.940 present form and then be reborn as something 0.64

01:01:37.540 else and that happens when you encounter

01:01:40.420 something that's really challenging because

01:01:42.700 the challenge burns up what there is of you that

01:01:46.680 isn't useful and lets what is proper continue

01:01:51.620 okay so the Taoist idea is that there's chaos

01:01:57.980 order sorry that's order there it's chaos

01:02:00.820 here and that you should be positioned in the

01:02:03.400 middle and it looks to me that that's true

01:02:07.880 and that the world is made out of chaos and

01:02:11.120 order it's made out of the things you don't

01:02:12.860 understand that can always leap up and take

01:02:16.300 you down and the things you do understand it's

01:02:18.660 made out of unexplored territory and explored

01:02:21.780 territory I'll add a little level of complexity

01:02:26.920 to this see if I can do this I haven't been

01:02:29.440 able to do this before I don't know if I can

01:02:32.540 do it or not here's another way of looking at

01:02:35.540 chaos and order so you could say that chaos is

01:02:40.320 everything that there is it's the set of all

01:02:43.140 possible facts and combinations of facts that's

01:02:47.300 way too much for you and you know one of the

01:02:51.440 facts is there's 150,000 things that can go

01:02:55.680 wrong with your body pick up a medical text or

01:02:58.940 better yet don't or pick up a text on

01:03:02.480 psychopathology man there's lots of ways to

01:03:05.300 be crazy and you probably have practiced most

01:03:07.960 of them so so chaos is the set of all possible 0.97

01:03:13.360 facts let's say and all possible combinations

01:03:15.720 of facts and you don't really have much contact

01:03:17.960 with that and thank God because there's just too

01:03:20.800 much out there for you so you have to filter that

01:03:24.300 and you filter that with a structure of order and you

01:03:28.600 have to filter it here the reason you have to filter it

01:03:31.260 is because there's all those facts and there's all those

01:03:36.200 things you could do about them but unless you reduce

01:03:38.920 them to one thing that you're going to do you can't do

01:03:41.720 anything because you can only do one thing at a time so

01:03:44.820 you have to take all that there is and convert it to the 0.99

01:03:47.920 thing you're going to do and that's hard there's an

01:03:51.960 there's an intermediary structure there's a lot of

01:03:54.200 intermediary structure that's necessary to take that

01:03:56.660 ungodly collection of everything and reduce it to just the

01:04:01.900 thing you're looking at or just the thing you care about or

01:04:05.660 just the thing that you're acting on so you're a reducing

01:04:10.140 valve like eldest Huxley claimed influenced by Henri Bergson

01:04:14.040 right and Huxley's idea by the way was that if you took a

01:04:18.400 hallucinogen then all that filtering disappeared and partly

01:04:25.360 what you saw was everything that there was and that that was

01:04:29.220 absolutely overwhelming it's a good theory it's actually in

01:04:33.220 accordance with the neurobiology if you know something about

01:04:36.800 how hallucinogens work that is looks like how they work they

01:04:41.680 stopped the they stopped thalamic gating that's the technical issue so

01:04:47.260 anyways you have to take this really complicated world chaos and you have to

01:04:51.260 filter it right down to one thing and it's order that does that and then you

01:04:57.060 think well how is that order established and it's established the same way the

01:05:05.460 stock market establishes value okay so what the stock market does is it

01:05:11.140 compares everything that there is to everything else that there is and then it

01:05:15.700 rank orders them it uses money right and so like if if someone asked you well

01:05:20.900 which stock you can have a thousand stocks you think well which stocks would I

01:05:25.960 take well that's easy that's an easy that's an easy question take the ones

01:05:30.760 that are worth the most money right that's what money is for is to tell you

01:05:35.840 it's the symbol it's a it's a symbol of it's the symbol of value that

01:05:40.840 collective wisdom has produced to value an array of material goods I'm not saying

01:05:46.440 that that's the only process of value I'm saying that the way that we

01:05:51.220 determine what constitutes value is by coming to a collective decision about it

01:05:56.020 we cooperate and compete in the world to value things right you're going to value

01:06:01.580 what other people value not completely because you've got your own being but

01:06:05.000 you're going to value what other people value our whole culture is our whole

01:06:08.940 culture that the hierarchy of our culture is set up to produce a structure

01:06:13.620 value out of the cooperation and competition that we're all undertaking

01:06:16.980 and you incorporate that structure

01:06:19.720 that's why the idea of the patriarchy is so compelling

01:06:24.780 you you incorporate that structure and then you look at the world through it

01:06:29.260 and that works because not only does that reduce the world to the things that

01:06:34.560 you're acting on but it reduces it in a way that's in accordance with the way

01:06:38.220 that everyone else is reducing the world because we have to agree on what's of

01:06:42.180 value because otherwise we fight you know so for example all of you when you

01:06:46.720 came here sat in your chair and that meant we didn't have to fight about it and

01:06:51.420 we we we we we we've come to an agreement that the manner in which you

01:06:57.300 purchased your ticket the order in which you purchased your ticket the fact that

01:07:01.380 there's information printed on this particular piece of paper entitles us to

01:07:05.140 sit in a hierarchical arrangement right from from let's say the best seats to the

01:07:10.440 worst ones that's you poor saps way back up there right but we're all in 0.92

01:07:14.980 accordance with that we've we've all agreed that we're going to

01:07:18.380 hierarchically rank the seats in this auditorium according to an agreement that

01:07:25.100 was derived from both cooperation and competition and we do that with

01:07:29.260 everything and we incorporate that and that's what we see the world through and

01:07:34.520 that's what reduces the complexity of the world to the single things that we move

01:07:39.620 towards now most of the time this is an oversimplification most of the time you're

01:07:46.000 going to be trying to do with your time what other people most value that's what

01:07:51.300 you do when you get paid right not all the time because you you can do whatever you

01:07:55.580 want with your time to some degree but that's still going to be informed by other

01:07:58.540 people's opinions and so we've we've we've produced a collective structure that's

01:08:04.880 order and that's what filters the world so that we can act in it okay now i'm going

01:08:12.080 to try to tangle all those things together so i'm going to look at my phone to do

01:08:17.480 this because it's too damn complicated to keep track of otherwise and i okay so

01:08:22.300 the person who stands on this line between chaos and order

01:08:29.120 this is the characteristics of that person the first is the willing to take responsibility

01:08:39.740 that's for responsibility for suffering and malevolence so that's the two major categories

01:08:46.300 of catastrophe in the world and so to confront the unknown and to face the dragon

01:08:52.180 and to do all those things that are heroic essentially means that you're willing to

01:08:56.300 take on responsibility for suffering and malevolence because those are the two big

01:09:00.540 dragons courage responsibility that's number one courage that's number two you're not going

01:09:07.780 to do that without courage and courage is a form of faith right if you're courageous it

01:09:12.480 means that you think that there's something in you that will respond to the challenge and

01:09:16.480 that's the same thing as believing that the father lies in the monster it's the same

01:09:21.200 thing sacrifice that's the next thing that characterizes this ideal person why well

01:09:34.280 because to pursue things of ultimate value you have to delay gratification if you're going

01:09:41.360 to pursue a pathway of meaning and responsibility if you're going to take on great tasks you can't

01:09:48.320 act impulsively you have to plan into the future and so that means you have to be willing to sacrifice

01:09:54.120 what's expedient in the present so that you can do what's appropriate into the future and then there's

01:10:01.500 another element of sacrifice which is that you have to be willing to let go of the parts of you

01:10:07.420 that aren't up to the job and shed them constantly and that's a rough thing because that could well that

01:10:14.000 can mean shedding most of you can mean shedding your friends can mean shedding your family can

01:10:18.400 mean shedding your career whatever the hell gets in the way all right so what else

01:10:24.400 reciprocity

01:10:29.480 if you're going to

01:10:35.160 solve difficult problems in the world you're going to take on the problem of suffering let's say

01:10:41.340 you're going to take on the problem of malevolence you have to be able to cooperate with other

01:10:45.500 people and so you have to be able to engage in reciprocal action you have to be able to play fair

01:10:50.920 because otherwise you won't be able to organize yourself socially and put any sort of force of

01:10:57.700 organization behind you you're not going to only operate alone in the world even in the story of the

01:11:03.660 hobbit now there's a crew of people that go out to confront the dragon and in the final analysis

01:11:09.120 there's only one person that does it but that doesn't mean that people do things alone

01:11:12.620 and so you need to have a crew around you and you have to be able to cooperate with them and you have

01:11:17.180 to be able to compete with them you have to do that in a meaningful way that's oriented to something

01:11:21.960 that let's say is both responsible and responsible and courageous right so

01:11:27.900 judgment you have to be able to use judgment that's the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff

01:11:38.740 so partly you judge other people because that's actually part of the way that you help them

01:11:43.320 to judge someone is not to condemn them to judge them is to tell them the difference between what

01:11:49.820 should be kept in them and what should be let go and to judge yourself is the same thing the

01:11:56.100 judgment is actually a purification process it's not a damnation process you know judgment's got a

01:12:01.600 bad rap in our world now but without judgment then all you then you can struggle forward with all 0.99

01:12:10.260 your stupidity intact and that seems like a bad idea mercy that's so that development can be 0.98

01:12:19.600 possible and encouraged so even if you're judging you're doing it in a way that encourages development 1.00

01:12:26.720 that's what you do with the child right because you don't just crush them with your judgment

01:12:30.420 though you want to help them separate wheat from chaff you encourage them because you know that

01:12:35.120 there's potential there and that requires a certain amount of mercy a certain amount of forbearance so

01:12:39.840 to get that balance between judgment and mercy right that's a real task

01:12:43.380 attention to and resistance to tyranny and deceit

01:12:51.060 you see that in the pinocchio story too

01:12:57.500 when pinocchio ends up on pleasure island 0.99

01:13:01.680 it's run by totalitarians who transform them into a lying jackass so they can sell them as a slave 0.99

01:13:10.620 there's a real message in that that's that film was made in the 1930s 0.97

01:13:16.060 part of that ability to take responsibility the ability to be courageous the capacity for judgment

01:13:26.020 capacity for mercy capacity for reciprocity it's also manifested in the willingness to pay attention

01:13:33.480 to tyranny and to stand up against it and the intermingling of all those things

01:13:39.800 as far as i can tell and all those things are what sets you right sets your family right

01:13:47.120 sets the community right maybe even sets the world right the intermingling of all of that

01:13:53.140 is manifested in the sense of meaning and that's what your mind is reporting when you're in the right

01:13:59.440 place at the right time and so that all that just seems real and so

01:14:05.440 well so back to what we were talking about at the beginning i said that i thought that we looked at the

01:14:18.940 world wrong you know that we have this materialist view fair enough it's very powerful from a

01:14:25.560 technological perspective but it treats meaning as an epiphenomena something that you can you can

01:14:30.140 dispute the existence of meaning right and that leads people into either into nihilism which is not

01:14:38.520 good or into the reaction against that which is what how totalitarian how totalitarianism manifests

01:14:46.800 itself as far as i'm concerned it's like it's the reaction to that that abyss it's the reaction of

01:14:52.880 improbable certainty something like that as the antidote to intolerable uncertainty it's not good

01:15:01.800 neither of those are good they're both based on the nihilism certainly is based on the denial of

01:15:08.140 meaning the totalitarianism is sort of based on the idea that there is meaning but it's static and

01:15:13.260 then you've got it now but meaning itself seems to be predicated on the necessity for continual

01:15:20.160 development right it's you're not good enough the way you are you have to be more than you are

01:15:23.780 and the meaning is to be found in the being more than you are and then it's composed of these

01:15:28.980 subsidiary virtues the ones that i laid out and perhaps a whole variety of others it seems to me that

01:15:35.240 okay so then then we can we can conclude i guess well

01:15:40.800 there is meaning in life it's the meaning as far as i can tell that i just laid out you need a meaning

01:15:52.880 in your life because life is very difficult and there's plenty of suffering and malevolence and

01:15:57.900 that's enough to take you down and take you under and tear you apart and the the way of coping with

01:16:04.280 that appears to be to turn around and face it as much as you can and to understand that in that act of

01:16:13.400 facing in the act of facing you rescue from that terror exactly what it is that you need to overcome it

01:16:22.280 and it looks like that's actually how the world is structured

01:16:25.800 so all of that seems to me to be very much worth knowing which is why i've been thinking about it

01:16:34.000 and why i want to talk to you about it tonight thank you

01:16:38.920 something nice about this room right we can kind of kind of see everybody it feels good it's like a

01:16:50.380 big musical instrument yeah yeah pretty cool looks like the uh the senate in star wars

01:16:56.640 i know you're more of a harry potter guy but give me a little something here okay we are in canada

01:17:03.380 west coast aliens yeah so because we're in canada this one keeps coming up so you know i'm going

01:17:11.200 right to it will you please please please please run for prime minister

01:17:19.020 there's about 800 versions of that question i can't speak french

01:17:36.060 and as you know that disqualifies you

01:17:41.360 okay moving on all right okay so look i've i've i've been what would you say curious about a

01:17:54.880 political career ever since i was a kid and i thought about it a lot at various times but

01:18:00.740 every time i thought about it seriously and thought about acting on it the sorts of things that i was

01:18:07.440 talking to you guys about tonight studying them continually took precedence and i think that's

01:18:15.240 was proper so and i'm not done studying them yet it probably won't ever be i think it's better for me to do

01:18:26.540 that so i think i'll just keep doing that that's what it looks like

01:18:31.300 how should we interact with ideology ideologies in everyday life when we're vocally outnumbered

01:18:45.500 at work or at school james demore for example

01:18:48.900 well james did pretty well he's a courageous guy

01:18:54.960 sort of accidentally in some ways i mean

01:18:58.980 james is a pretty soft-spoken character and he's certainly not out to

01:19:05.540 intentionally damage anyone he's just an engineer

01:19:10.040 and you know what happened to him at google is really quite funny in the

01:19:15.120 dark comedy sort of way he went to one of these social justice orientation 0.89

01:19:21.060 idiocy things that they inflict upon people in corporations and 0.93

01:19:25.420 um i was at diversity seminar or something like that 0.90

01:19:28.900 run by absolutely unqualified people mouthing 0.99

01:19:32.400 platitudinous stupidities to make themselves seem virtuous 1.00

01:19:36.360 and 0.99

01:19:37.440 but jordan how do you really feel about them that's the thing well and then they asked for feedback

01:19:49.200 well and james is an engineer so he thought they wanted feedback

01:19:54.900 so he wrote what he wrote

01:19:59.420 and went and read the literature to provide feedback he thought

01:20:05.380 well there's a bunch of things you said that just seemed to be wrong and

01:20:09.120 here's the data that tell you why these are wrong and so there's my feedback

01:20:14.480 and that was the end of it as far as he was concerned

01:20:17.440 and then it got circulated as an internal memo

01:20:20.400 and then it got released but he didn't release it and certainly didn't expect anything like that

01:20:25.500 and so then it got released and they fired him

01:20:27.540 it's like how absolutely appalling is that but he didn't back down

01:20:32.360 you know which is really something and

01:20:35.600 he's suing them

01:20:37.380 i think there's a class action suit against google

01:20:40.140 with any luck they'll win

01:20:42.920 they certainly should win if they don't that will be a very dark day in the judicial history of the united states

01:20:49.280 maybe there are technical reasons why it's a hopeless case

01:20:53.460 what do you do if you're in a situation like that

01:20:59.840 well look the only thing that you've got in your life

01:21:05.560 as far as i can tell

01:21:06.860 is truth

01:21:08.320 you think well

01:21:10.680 do you believe that

01:21:13.100 it's like well let's consider the alternative

01:21:15.020 the only thing you have in your life

01:21:17.260 is falsehood

01:21:18.500 no one believes that

01:21:20.640 even people who lie

01:21:22.440 which is all of us by the way

01:21:23.960 no one believes that that's really a good idea

01:21:26.440 they just think they can get away with it

01:21:28.000 like no one thinks that

01:21:29.480 you don't sit your kid down on your knee

01:21:31.960 when he's four and say

01:21:32.960 look kid

01:21:33.500 best thing you want to do

01:21:35.460 if you want to make it through life

01:21:36.960 is to surround yourself

01:21:38.320 with a tissue of fabrications

01:21:41.020 right

01:21:41.740 the deeper and more corrupt

01:21:43.660 the better

01:21:44.620 that'll get you where you want to go

01:21:47.300 no one ever does that

01:21:49.080 because everyone knows that's not right

01:21:52.820 it won't work

01:21:54.140 and so if you do

01:21:55.480 engage in deceit

01:21:58.000 the reason you're doing it

01:21:59.600 is because

01:22:00.720 it's easier

01:22:02.220 or you think you can get away with it

01:22:03.680 that's it

01:22:04.160 not because you think it's right

01:22:05.460 well and then you can engage in deceit

01:22:08.720 in a couple of ways

01:22:09.480 you can say things you don't mean 0.97

01:22:11.680 or you can just shut up 0.86

01:22:13.900 when you have something to say 0.99

01:22:15.200 now the first one

01:22:17.020 classically

01:22:18.340 that's a sin of commission

01:22:19.620 is regarded as worse than the second

01:22:22.180 although I'm not so sure about that

01:22:24.460 but we could just leave that lie

01:22:27.060 what do you do to yourself

01:22:30.960 if you don't speak

01:22:32.120 when you have something to say

01:22:33.800 you turn yourself

01:22:35.460 into someone who can't speak

01:22:37.920 when they have something to say

01:22:40.020 and there's no difference

01:22:41.800 between speaking and living

01:22:43.440 speaking is just the prodroma for living

01:22:46.040 you speak about something

01:22:47.980 and then you do it

01:22:49.000 if you have any sense

01:22:50.300 I mean sometimes you act first

01:22:51.840 you know

01:22:52.180 but you're supposed to think a little bit

01:22:53.940 if you turn yourself into someone

01:22:55.940 who can't speak

01:22:56.820 then you turn yourself into someone

01:22:58.240 who can't think

01:22:59.200 that seems like a really bad idea

01:23:01.140 who's afraid to think

01:23:02.440 that's even worse

01:23:03.440 so you always have to ask yourself

01:23:07.020 it's like which hell are you trying to avoid

01:23:09.040 you know

01:23:10.720 there's the hell of telling the truth

01:23:12.420 and there's the hell of not telling the truth

01:23:14.120 those are your options

01:23:15.220 now I'm not saying that

01:23:17.720 you should leap up

01:23:18.720 in the middle of your workplace

01:23:20.660 and tell your boss 1.00

01:23:21.680 to go directly to hell 1.00

01:23:22.880 you know 1.00

01:23:23.900 I mean

01:23:24.460 telling the truth

01:23:26.520 isn't the same

01:23:27.320 as being impulsively aggressive

01:23:29.040 you know

01:23:30.040 and if you let your resentment

01:23:31.160 build up for five or six years

01:23:32.760 you don't get to go in

01:23:33.840 and let it all out

01:23:35.420 in a burst of anger

01:23:36.620 it's like

01:23:37.200 that's not the truth

01:23:38.840 that's just a more sophisticated form of lying

01:23:42.580 but if you find yourself

01:23:44.500 in a situation

01:23:45.340 where your workplace

01:23:46.400 or your life

01:23:47.540 has been rendered intolerable

01:23:49.140 because of

01:23:50.200 ideological pressure

01:23:52.180 to silence you

01:23:53.220 then you have to start thinking about

01:23:54.720 what the consequences

01:23:56.600 of living like that

01:23:57.760 are going to be

01:23:58.760 you know

01:23:59.240 what happened in the Soviet Union

01:24:00.800 was that it actually became illegal to suffer

01:24:03.680 and I'm really serious about that

01:24:07.520 because you know

01:24:08.840 if the system's working

01:24:10.700 then everything's okay with you

01:24:14.180 and if everything's not okay with you

01:24:16.940 well

01:24:17.880 is that your fault

01:24:20.080 or the system's fault

01:24:21.260 well if it's not 0.99

01:24:23.180 the goddamn system's fault 1.00

01:24:25.380 then it's your fault 1.00

01:24:27.680 then you don't get to suffer

01:24:29.480 and that's what happened

01:24:30.820 in the Soviet Union

01:24:31.780 it's like

01:24:32.840 if you're in a situation

01:24:34.100 where you've been rendered

01:24:36.420 hopeless

01:24:38.860 or desperate

01:24:39.900 or resentful

01:24:41.020 or silent

01:24:42.460 and disenchanted

01:24:44.880 with your workplace

01:24:46.320 and your career

01:24:47.380 then

01:24:48.320 and you can't even say anything about that

01:24:51.420 it's like 0.93

01:24:52.120 you're already in a pretty goddamn bad place 0.93

01:24:54.380 it isn't so obvious 0.96

01:24:55.420 that trying to figure out

01:24:56.800 how to escape from that

01:24:58.660 would

01:24:59.580 in the final analysis

01:25:01.120 make it worse

01:25:02.040 you have to be canny

01:25:04.100 though

01:25:04.720 you know

01:25:05.280 it's not a simple matter

01:25:07.640 to organize yourself

01:25:09.700 so that you can say

01:25:11.060 what you think

01:25:11.660 and maybe you start

01:25:12.980 in small ways

01:25:14.060 maybe you just write down

01:25:15.660 what you think

01:25:16.440 at least you bloody well know

01:25:18.260 what it is then

01:25:19.180 I often recommend

01:25:20.280 to my clients

01:25:21.060 one of the things

01:25:22.180 I do with my clients

01:25:23.200 is

01:25:23.500 especially if they're agreeable types

01:25:25.420 and don't like conflict

01:25:26.440 and there's lots of people

01:25:27.440 like that

01:25:27.940 but they're bubbling up

01:25:28.980 with resentment

01:25:29.640 because they've got some things to say

01:25:32.460 you know

01:25:33.240 and they haven't said them

01:25:34.640 and they've got some people

01:25:35.840 to say them to

01:25:36.780 who they haven't said them to

01:25:38.640 say well

01:25:39.840 write

01:25:40.380 write the person a letter

01:25:41.840 you can email them

01:25:43.820 don't send it

01:25:44.980 don't send it

01:25:48.120 write it down

01:25:49.140 wait a week

01:25:50.460 edit it

01:25:53.640 get rid of what you don't have to say

01:25:55.300 like get it at least

01:25:56.640 so you can articulate

01:25:57.680 at least so you know 0.90

01:25:58.940 what the hell you think

01:26:00.000 that's something

01:26:00.880 well and then maybe

01:26:02.700 you can start paying attention

01:26:04.500 and see if there's some other people

01:26:05.840 around that you can talk to

01:26:07.020 you know

01:26:07.680 one of the things you'll find

01:26:08.780 like here's an example

01:26:10.140 so

01:26:11.240 I mentioned this

01:26:12.940 at the beginning of tonight

01:26:14.020 that

01:26:14.320 that the

01:26:15.100 the artists

01:26:16.640 in Calgary

01:26:18.880 600 of them

01:26:21.440 signed a petition

01:26:23.060 demanding that I get

01:26:24.680 tossed out of the theater

01:26:26.920 which didn't work

01:26:28.880 by the way

01:26:29.380 so that's a good thing

01:26:31.060 but one of the things

01:26:32.280 it was such a pack of lies

01:26:33.600 it was just

01:26:34.160 appalling

01:26:34.980 I mean

01:26:35.440 first of all

01:26:36.780 they said a bunch of things

01:26:37.640 about me that just weren't true

01:26:38.940 but that's par for the course

01:26:41.120 there's about 10 insults

01:26:42.480 you know

01:26:42.660 there's canonical insults

01:26:43.960 now that

01:26:44.360 that you don't fit

01:26:45.680 the politically correct narrative

01:26:46.900 then

01:26:47.180 you get to be labeled

01:26:48.720 with all 10

01:26:49.540 canonical insults

01:26:50.820 I think racist

01:26:51.640 was the first one

01:26:52.520 homophobic 0.61

01:26:53.140 transphobic 1.00

01:26:53.880 misogynistic 0.99

01:26:54.680 I need to make a little song

01:26:56.420 out of this

01:26:57.040 and so

01:26:59.660 there were some other ones too

01:27:04.700 but those are the big ones

01:27:06.160 let's say

01:27:06.680 and then they said

01:27:08.040 that

01:27:09.120 it wasn't that they disagreed

01:27:10.440 with my ideas exactly

01:27:11.620 or my right to express them

01:27:12.860 but

01:27:13.040 what was

01:27:14.540 what I was doing

01:27:15.360 by bringing all you types

01:27:16.920 to the auditorium

01:27:18.040 was

01:27:18.360 making it unsafe

01:27:21.120 for people who work there

01:27:22.840 and that's actually

01:27:24.380 what they were concerned about

01:27:25.680 despite the fact

01:27:26.540 that 200,000 people

01:27:28.240 have now come out

01:27:29.220 over the last

01:27:30.320 four months

01:27:31.420 to listen to a talk

01:27:32.920 like this

01:27:33.480 and nothing has gone wrong

01:27:35.280 at all

01:27:35.960 like

01:27:37.620 but you can't be too safe

01:27:44.120 as we all know

01:27:45.380 we are going to sacrifice 0.95

01:27:46.860 one of you tonight 0.99

01:27:47.800 just FYI

01:27:48.820 so

01:27:49.920 so

01:27:50.920 but

01:27:51.940 but this is the point

01:27:53.100 of this story

01:27:53.740 is that the Calgary Sun

01:27:55.040 ran a little poll

01:27:56.200 asking people

01:27:57.760 if I should be

01:27:58.940 allowed

01:28:00.520 to speak

01:28:03.480 in Calgary

01:28:04.720 and 95% of people

01:28:06.400 said yes

01:28:07.180 and 2%

01:28:08.260 of the people

01:28:08.980 who didn't

01:28:09.540 so half of the remaining ones

01:28:10.960 2

01:28:11.260 2 more percent

01:28:12.620 thought I could talk

01:28:14.120 but not at that place

01:28:15.380 so I think

01:28:16.080 they just misunderstood

01:28:16.900 the question

01:28:17.920 so

01:28:19.200 it was like

01:28:19.860 2% of people

01:28:21.060 were opposed

01:28:21.760 to me coming to speak

01:28:22.800 but they're really noisy

01:28:24.300 that 2% 0.92

01:28:25.800 and

01:28:26.720 it's like

01:28:27.540 the rest of the 95%

01:28:29.140 are not saying anything

01:28:30.220 it's like

01:28:30.660 so if you do decide

01:28:31.720 to say something at work

01:28:32.960 you'll find that

01:28:33.940 there's a lot more people

01:28:35.760 assuming you're not

01:28:36.720 completely unreasonable

01:28:37.700 and you know

01:28:38.320 you're trying to be careful

01:28:39.520 at least to some degree

01:28:40.600 you'll find that

01:28:41.680 there's a lot of people

01:28:42.500 out there

01:28:43.000 who are reasonable

01:28:44.240 who think

01:28:45.140 like you think

01:28:46.020 and who are having

01:28:46.480 exactly the same problems

01:28:47.760 you have

01:28:48.440 and that if you

01:28:49.540 said something

01:28:50.840 at least they'd come

01:28:52.180 by your office later

01:28:53.260 and say

01:28:53.620 you know

01:28:53.980 I actually think

01:28:54.920 that what you're doing

01:28:55.600 is right

01:28:56.040 well it's something

01:28:57.380 you know

01:28:57.820 and it might take a while

01:28:59.080 before those people

01:28:59.960 had enough courage

01:29:00.740 to actually come out

01:29:01.520 of the woodwork

01:29:02.180 you know

01:29:03.340 you choose between

01:29:06.520 look

01:29:09.520 it's the same thing

01:29:10.780 it's

01:29:11.080 I don't think

01:29:11.960 you have a better ally

01:29:13.020 than the truth

01:29:13.760 I don't see how

01:29:14.860 it can be any other way

01:29:15.720 not that the truth

01:29:16.680 is such a great ally

01:29:17.740 it's pretty damn painful

01:29:19.300 you know

01:29:20.060 and maybe it won't

01:29:20.800 rescue you

01:29:21.500 you'll get

01:29:22.320 snapped up

01:29:23.740 by the jaws 0.76

01:29:24.380 of the beast

01:29:24.880 and the truth

01:29:25.480 won't save you

01:29:26.140 but it's still

01:29:26.620 your best bloody bet

01:29:27.760 it's what you

01:29:28.720 it's the best

01:29:29.360 you've got

01:29:29.960 and if you

01:29:30.700 abandon it

01:29:31.620 you're done

01:29:32.460 I mean this is

01:29:33.700 one thing

01:29:34.080 I've absolutely

01:29:34.720 learned as a clinical

01:29:35.640 psychologist

01:29:36.200 two things

01:29:36.780 one

01:29:37.060 you don't get away

01:29:38.120 with anything

01:29:38.740 no one ever

01:29:40.360 gets away with anything

01:29:41.360 I've never

01:29:42.000 it terrifies me

01:29:43.140 because there's things

01:29:44.060 you know

01:29:44.380 that I'm not too

01:29:45.100 happy about

01:29:45.620 that I've done

01:29:46.280 and so I think

01:29:47.420 well you know

01:29:48.180 one day the shoe's

01:29:49.360 gonna drop

01:29:49.900 but in any case

01:29:51.160 I don't think

01:29:52.540 you get away

01:29:52.980 with anything

01:29:53.520 and the second

01:29:54.560 is that

01:29:55.180 like every lie

01:29:56.220 comes back

01:29:56.740 to haunt you

01:29:57.340 and so if you're

01:29:58.300 not speaking

01:29:59.340 when you have

01:29:59.800 something

01:30:00.060 that's a sin

01:30:01.120 man

01:30:01.540 to not speak

01:30:02.840 when you have

01:30:03.260 something to say

01:30:04.040 because if you

01:30:06.040 have something to say

01:30:07.060 look

01:30:11.040 here

01:30:11.880 one more thing

01:30:12.920 here's

01:30:13.340 there's an idea

01:30:14.460 that's at the

01:30:15.140 bottom of our

01:30:15.760 culture

01:30:16.180 and this is the

01:30:17.500 idea

01:30:17.840 is that

01:30:18.280 we partake

01:30:19.500 in the process

01:30:20.180 of creation

01:30:21.060 we partake

01:30:22.280 in the process

01:30:22.900 of the creation

01:30:23.900 of habitable order

01:30:25.100 from chaos

01:30:25.980 by speaking

01:30:26.920 the truth

01:30:27.480 that's actually

01:30:29.120 what we do

01:30:29.560 that's associated

01:30:30.680 with this

01:30:31.500 meaningful

01:30:32.180 mode of being

01:30:33.420 that I was

01:30:33.860 describing

01:30:34.360 right

01:30:35.420 that's the image

01:30:36.180 of God

01:30:36.660 in which we're

01:30:37.340 made

01:30:37.740 we

01:30:38.760 transform the

01:30:40.480 chaos of potential

01:30:41.460 into the order

01:30:42.440 that is good

01:30:43.120 with truth

01:30:43.920 and I believe

01:30:45.820 that's the case

01:30:46.500 I truly believe

01:30:47.580 that that's

01:30:48.600 an accurate

01:30:49.360 statement

01:30:49.840 it sums up

01:30:50.960 the nature

01:30:51.560 of our relationship

01:30:52.340 with reality

01:30:52.900 and so if you

01:30:53.800 have unexpressed

01:30:54.760 truth

01:30:55.400 then there's

01:30:57.020 habitable order

01:30:58.020 that you're not

01:30:58.680 bringing into being

01:30:59.700 you're corrupting

01:31:01.280 the structure

01:31:01.820 of the world

01:31:02.580 by remaining

01:31:03.560 silent

01:31:04.060 and that's

01:31:06.040 on you

01:31:06.640 it's not

01:31:08.560 a good idea

01:31:09.240 because things

01:31:10.760 need to be

01:31:11.300 straightened out

01:31:11.860 and if you

01:31:12.640 can see where

01:31:13.300 they're crooked

01:31:13.740 and you don't

01:31:14.260 straighten them

01:31:14.740 out

01:31:14.900 then they

01:31:15.340 stay crooked

01:31:16.060 and then people

01:31:17.060 suffer

01:31:17.660 you too 0.98

01:31:18.860 like you too

01:31:19.840 but everyone

01:31:20.340 else

01:31:20.820 you have this

01:31:22.120 ethical obligation

01:31:23.180 that's fundamental

01:31:24.080 paramount

01:31:24.660 that's this

01:31:25.160 responsibility issue

01:31:26.240 you have this

01:31:26.600 ethical obligation

01:31:27.540 that's fundamental

01:31:28.440 to use the truth

01:31:30.420 that you can see

01:31:31.060 to set the world

01:31:31.740 straight 0.70

01:31:32.100 and if you

01:31:34.000 don't do that

01:31:34.780 then the consequences

01:31:36.060 will visit you

01:31:36.880 and I wouldn't

01:31:38.300 recommend that

01:31:39.020 that's a bad

01:31:39.800 thing

01:31:40.180 it won't be

01:31:41.660 pretty

01:31:42.040 and you'll know

01:31:43.580 that you could

01:31:44.220 have avoided it

01:31:45.000 you'll know

01:31:46.100 that it's

01:31:46.660 that's not only

01:31:48.000 on you

01:31:48.500 but it's your

01:31:49.240 fault

01:31:49.800 and Jesus

01:31:51.340 that's a particular

01:31:52.040 form of hell

01:31:52.820 like it's one thing

01:31:53.540 to have something

01:31:54.060 terrible happen to

01:31:54.880 you

01:31:55.020 that's bad enough

01:31:56.020 but to know

01:31:56.860 that

01:31:57.120 you brought it

01:32:00.180 on man

01:32:00.740 and you could

01:32:03.040 have avoided it

01:32:03.800 and you knew

01:32:04.400 you could have

01:32:04.860 avoided it

01:32:05.480 and you still

01:32:06.280 didn't do it

01:32:06.960 that's hell

01:32:07.880 man

01:32:08.220 that's not a place

01:32:09.460 you want to visit

01:32:10.180 how do I know

01:32:21.840 if I'm trying

01:32:22.820 hard enough

01:32:23.560 how do I know

01:32:24.380 if I'm living up

01:32:25.420 to my human

01:32:26.340 potential

01:32:26.840 well I think

01:32:32.380 there's lots

01:32:32.880 of different ways

01:32:33.640 you know

01:32:34.120 I mean

01:32:34.900 you don't

01:32:36.660 wake up

01:32:37.120 at three

01:32:39.580 in the morning

01:32:39.980 and torture 1.00

01:32:41.380 yourself to death 1.00

01:32:42.140 for your 0.94

01:32:42.500 inadequacies

01:32:43.240 I mean people

01:32:44.020 do that

01:32:44.460 and I know

01:32:45.020 people can get

01:32:45.660 depressed

01:32:46.100 and that

01:32:47.000 mechanism

01:32:47.440 can go

01:32:47.860 astray

01:32:48.280 but

01:32:49.320 you might

01:32:51.200 be able

01:32:51.380 to go to

01:32:51.680 sleep

01:32:51.900 with somewhat

01:32:52.420 something

01:32:53.020 resembling

01:32:53.680 a relatively

01:32:55.140 clean conscience

01:32:56.300 that'd be

01:32:57.220 something

01:32:57.720 other people

01:32:59.660 though are good

01:33:00.180 at sort of

01:33:00.800 telling you that

01:33:01.440 too

01:33:01.720 it's like

01:33:02.440 are you taking

01:33:03.280 care of yourself

01:33:04.020 are you taking

01:33:04.700 care of your

01:33:05.060 family

01:33:05.460 do you have

01:33:06.520 a little

01:33:06.700 left over

01:33:07.200 to make the

01:33:07.760 community

01:33:08.100 a better

01:33:08.460 place

01:33:08.900 other people

01:33:09.640 let you

01:33:09.940 know that

01:33:10.440 and like

01:33:11.980 they're not

01:33:12.300 infallible

01:33:12.880 but they're

01:33:13.260 another good

01:33:13.640 source of

01:33:14.060 information

01:33:14.560 so there's

01:33:15.440 your own

01:33:15.840 judgment

01:33:16.180 about yourself

01:33:16.940 and then

01:33:17.440 you calibrate

01:33:18.000 that against

01:33:18.520 the judgment

01:33:19.000 of others

01:33:19.560 are you

01:33:21.140 engaged in

01:33:21.760 something

01:33:22.020 that you

01:33:22.360 regard as

01:33:22.840 meaningful

01:33:23.280 you know

01:33:24.180 do you

01:33:24.680 have something

01:33:25.280 noble

01:33:25.960 in what

01:33:26.840 you're doing

01:33:27.280 to set

01:33:27.800 against the

01:33:28.440 catastrophe

01:33:28.940 of your

01:33:29.380 life

01:33:29.740 you know

01:33:31.100 when you're

01:33:31.460 doing something

01:33:32.020 worthwhile

01:33:32.420 and when

01:33:32.820 you're not

01:33:33.140 when you're

01:33:33.560 when you're

01:33:33.980 caring for

01:33:34.500 people

01:33:34.880 in a

01:33:36.320 credible

01:33:36.660 manner

01:33:37.120 when you're

01:33:38.700 carrying the

01:33:39.160 burden

01:33:39.400 properly

01:33:39.920 you have

01:33:40.520 some sense

01:33:41.140 of that

01:33:41.560 I mean

01:33:43.560 you can

01:33:43.920 strive too

01:33:44.520 hard to

01:33:44.980 and wear

01:33:45.320 yourself

01:33:45.740 down

01:33:46.220 it has

01:33:47.060 to be

01:33:47.360 sustainable

01:33:47.920 so

01:33:49.360 it's

01:33:51.240 it's

01:33:51.560 it's

01:33:51.860 tricky

01:33:52.160 it's

01:33:52.580 it's

01:33:52.880 a constant

01:33:53.440 you have

01:33:55.080 to constantly

01:33:55.780 engage in

01:33:56.440 dialogue with

01:33:56.980 your conscience

01:33:57.500 to determine

01:33:58.180 whether

01:34:00.020 you're

01:34:00.480 sufficiently

01:34:01.560 on the

01:34:02.060 path

01:34:02.440 but you

01:34:04.220 can certainly

01:34:04.620 talk to other

01:34:05.140 people about

01:34:05.660 it too

01:34:05.900 that's why

01:34:06.340 you want to

01:34:06.680 surround yourself

01:34:07.160 with people

01:34:07.660 that care

01:34:08.080 for you

01:34:08.560 that's what

01:34:09.460 rule three

01:34:10.100 make friends

01:34:10.840 with people

01:34:11.260 who want

01:34:11.620 the best

01:34:12.040 for you

01:34:12.460 you know

01:34:13.480 because

01:34:13.900 if you

01:34:14.720 surround yourself

01:34:15.320 with people

01:34:15.700 like that

01:34:16.000 you can talk

01:34:16.540 to them

01:34:16.760 it's like

01:34:17.220 you know

01:34:17.720 what do you

01:34:19.400 think of what

01:34:19.860 I'm doing

01:34:20.220 is it

01:34:20.580 working out

01:34:21.020 okay

01:34:21.360 they'll tell

01:34:22.620 you

01:34:22.860 if they're

01:34:23.600 on your

01:34:24.880 side

01:34:25.260 so

01:34:26.140 use your

01:34:27.040 judgment

01:34:27.380 you use

01:34:27.860 the judgment

01:34:28.300 of others

01:34:28.800 that's

01:34:29.640 a pretty

01:34:29.880 good

01:34:30.080 calibration

01:34:30.560 mechanism

01:34:31.220 when did

01:34:35.480 you become

01:34:36.060 a male

01:34:36.660 fashion

01:34:37.200 icon

01:34:37.800 you have

01:34:41.780 stepped it

01:34:42.280 up in

01:34:42.520 the wardrobe

01:34:42.920 game

01:34:43.340 well I

01:34:45.840 figured if

01:34:46.240 I was

01:34:46.500 going to

01:34:46.700 go talk

01:34:47.080 to 200,000

01:34:47.960 people

01:34:48.360 I might

01:34:49.360 as well

01:34:49.600 buy a

01:34:49.920 good suit

01:34:50.500 look

01:34:52.660 it's more

01:34:53.140 than that

01:34:53.620 I guess

01:34:54.120 to some

01:34:54.600 degree

01:34:54.920 I talked

01:34:56.280 to my

01:34:56.580 publishers

01:34:57.020 when this

01:34:57.800 book first

01:34:58.260 came out

01:34:58.780 and I

01:35:00.280 told them

01:35:00.760 I told

01:35:03.560 them that

01:35:03.940 I was

01:35:04.320 all in

01:35:05.080 on this

01:35:05.860 you know

01:35:07.340 when I

01:35:08.620 started doing

01:35:09.100 these tours

01:35:09.620 that I'm

01:35:10.080 doing everything

01:35:10.900 I possibly

01:35:11.660 can

01:35:12.100 as far

01:35:13.580 as I

01:35:13.840 can

01:35:14.140 to do

01:35:15.160 this right

01:35:15.760 so I'm

01:35:16.580 trying to

01:35:16.900 attend to

01:35:17.400 the details

01:35:18.020 and like

01:35:18.420 I'm very

01:35:18.860 happy that

01:35:19.380 all you

01:35:19.680 people are

01:35:20.140 here

01:35:20.400 I don't

01:35:21.160 take it

01:35:21.500 for granted

01:35:22.040 if I'm

01:35:22.960 going to

01:35:23.140 meet you

01:35:23.460 I mean

01:35:23.820 I'm going

01:35:24.140 to meet

01:35:24.380 about 150

01:35:25.200 of you

01:35:25.580 afterwards

01:35:25.940 and I'm

01:35:26.460 on this

01:35:26.800 stage

01:35:27.180 and in

01:35:28.060 the media

01:35:28.460 a fair bit

01:35:29.100 thought well

01:35:30.120 you know

01:35:30.520 that's another

01:35:31.960 little detail

01:35:32.580 that I might

01:35:33.020 as well get

01:35:33.420 right

01:35:33.780 because I'm

01:35:34.300 trying to

01:35:34.500 get all

01:35:34.800 the little

01:35:35.080 details

01:35:35.500 right

01:35:35.760 because who

01:35:36.200 knows what

01:35:36.720 the important

01:35:37.240 details are

01:35:38.040 and so it

01:35:39.340 seemed like

01:35:39.780 the thing

01:35:40.180 to do

01:35:40.660 you know

01:35:41.840 because

01:35:42.220 if this

01:35:43.460 is important

01:35:44.120 and I

01:35:44.720 think it

01:35:45.000 is

01:35:45.280 then I'm

01:35:46.040 going to

01:35:46.540 act like

01:35:47.460 it's

01:35:47.660 important

01:35:47.960 I'm

01:35:48.160 going to

01:35:48.400 dress like

01:35:48.960 it's

01:35:49.160 important

01:35:49.520 and I'm

01:35:49.840 going to

01:35:50.140 try to

01:35:50.440 speak like

01:35:50.960 it's

01:35:51.160 important

01:35:51.520 and I'm

01:35:52.400 going to

01:35:52.660 be grateful

01:35:53.260 for what's

01:35:53.780 happening

01:35:54.120 and try

01:35:54.940 to do it

01:35:55.320 properly

01:35:55.720 and so

01:35:56.940 I thought

01:35:58.600 I'd get

01:35:59.440 a good

01:35:59.620 suit

01:35:59.960 is social

01:36:07.680 media a

01:36:08.460 net good

01:36:09.140 or a net

01:36:10.040 negative

01:36:10.560 Twitter's

01:36:11.480 definitely

01:36:11.860 a net

01:36:12.220 negative

01:36:12.720 although I

01:36:15.280 haven't quit

01:36:16.160 using it

01:36:16.960 look

01:36:19.220 there is

01:36:19.600 some

01:36:19.820 literature

01:36:20.200 on this

01:36:20.880 it doesn't

01:36:22.180 look like

01:36:22.620 people who

01:36:23.080 use social

01:36:23.700 media are

01:36:24.220 in any

01:36:24.760 more of

01:36:25.040 a bubble

01:36:25.460 than people

01:36:26.020 who use

01:36:26.580 traditional

01:36:27.380 media

01:36:27.840 so the

01:36:28.780 whole

01:36:29.020 social media

01:36:30.140 produces a

01:36:30.840 bubble

01:36:31.080 idea

01:36:31.520 looks like

01:36:32.240 it's

01:36:32.440 over

01:36:32.760 exaggerated

01:36:34.340 or maybe

01:36:35.160 just

01:36:35.440 exaggerated

01:36:36.120 I don't

01:36:40.240 know if

01:36:40.660 social media

01:36:41.480 you know 0.99

01:36:42.440 how damn 0.98

01:36:42.860 addictive 0.98

01:36:43.240 these

01:36:43.600 devices

01:36:44.100 are

01:36:44.520 that's

01:36:45.600 a problem

01:36:46.060 it seems

01:36:46.540 to me

01:36:46.880 to be

01:36:47.180 a problem

01:36:47.560 but I

01:36:48.820 don't know

01:36:49.060 if you

01:36:49.240 can blame

01:36:49.520 that

01:36:49.740 specifically

01:36:50.320 on social

01:36:50.940 media

01:36:51.260 I think

01:36:52.520 that our

01:36:53.640 technologies

01:36:54.180 are so

01:36:54.600 powerful

01:36:54.960 that it's

01:36:55.360 hard for

01:36:55.720 us to

01:36:56.020 figure out

01:36:56.360 how to

01:36:56.620 interact

01:36:57.040 with them

01:36:57.440 and then

01:36:58.140 they change

01:36:58.780 so incredibly

01:36:59.480 quickly

01:36:59.820 that even

01:37:00.220 if you do

01:37:00.600 figure out

01:37:01.040 how to

01:37:01.280 interact

01:37:01.680 with them

01:37:02.040 in two

01:37:02.820 years

01:37:03.200 all that

01:37:03.860 knowledge

01:37:04.160 is obsolete

01:37:04.700 anyway

01:37:05.060 so I

01:37:06.180 don't think

01:37:06.540 it's social

01:37:07.020 media

01:37:07.360 I think

01:37:07.760 it's that

01:37:08.220 we're in

01:37:09.400 the works

01:37:10.800 our technological

01:37:11.720 transformation

01:37:12.680 is accelerating

01:37:13.700 right

01:37:14.140 we're up

01:37:14.540 at the

01:37:15.140 exponential

01:37:16.040 end of

01:37:16.640 the

01:37:16.820 distribution

01:37:17.380 and things

01:37:18.100 are going

01:37:18.420 quite haywire

01:37:19.320 and it's

01:37:20.260 going to be

01:37:20.600 a hell of a

01:37:21.120 ride

01:37:21.400 and so

01:37:21.900 all of this

01:37:23.600 being glued

01:37:24.800 to our

01:37:25.200 cell phones

01:37:25.780 is just

01:37:26.200 part of

01:37:26.640 trying to

01:37:27.080 master

01:37:27.420 this new

01:37:27.940 technology

01:37:28.520 and I

01:37:30.060 don't know

01:37:30.300 if we can

01:37:30.660 do it

01:37:31.080 because it's

01:37:32.160 going to be

01:37:33.040 coming at us

01:37:33.680 real fast

01:37:34.340 you know

01:37:34.620 the Chinese

01:37:36.060 graduate more

01:37:37.260 engineers

01:37:37.820 every year

01:37:38.620 than the

01:37:39.220 US has

01:37:40.240 engineers

01:37:40.960 right

01:37:42.820 so that's

01:37:43.960 you know

01:37:44.360 and they're

01:37:46.020 held back

01:37:46.600 to some

01:37:47.060 degree

01:37:47.340 in their

01:37:47.640 creativity

01:37:48.080 by the

01:37:48.660 still

01:37:49.140 totalitarian

01:37:50.120 substructure

01:37:51.300 of Chinese

01:37:51.900 culture

01:37:52.340 but they're

01:37:53.460 cruising along

01:37:54.200 at a pretty

01:37:54.640 damn good

01:37:55.220 rate 0.99

01:37:55.600 and so

01:37:56.140 all the

01:37:57.780 evidence

01:37:58.100 suggests

01:37:58.660 that we

01:37:59.660 ain't seen

01:38:00.080 nothing yet

01:38:00.820 and so

01:38:02.340 what I'm

01:38:04.560 hoping is

01:38:05.100 that we

01:38:06.560 develop enough

01:38:07.740 wisdom

01:38:08.140 and care

01:38:08.960 so that we

01:38:09.440 can master

01:38:09.940 this

01:38:10.360 our social

01:38:11.460 media

01:38:11.760 and all

01:38:12.020 the other

01:38:12.300 technology

01:38:12.900 because it's

01:38:13.940 certainly

01:38:14.200 powerful

01:38:14.660 and we

01:38:15.000 can do

01:38:15.220 a lot

01:38:15.460 of good

01:38:15.720 with it

01:38:16.160 you know

01:38:17.200 so that's

01:38:18.200 on the

01:38:18.620 scary side

01:38:19.500 but on the

01:38:19.960 upside

01:38:20.300 you know

01:38:20.760 I

01:38:21.880 follow this

01:38:25.540 group on

01:38:26.640 twitter

01:38:27.620 called

01:38:28.660 humanprogress.org

01:38:30.320 which I like

01:38:31.100 a lot

01:38:31.500 and they've

01:38:32.960 been

01:38:33.240 publicizing

01:38:35.200 statistics

01:38:36.040 about how

01:38:36.740 fast things

01:38:37.560 have been

01:38:37.900 getting better

01:38:38.500 like since

01:38:39.360 the turn

01:38:39.820 of the

01:38:40.060 millennium

01:38:40.520 particularly

01:38:41.260 worldwide

01:38:43.340 things have

01:38:44.640 been getting

01:38:45.000 better so

01:38:45.500 fast that

01:38:45.980 it's absolutely

01:38:46.600 beyond comprehension

01:38:47.580 so I think

01:38:50.000 I read today

01:38:50.740 that the

01:38:52.320 rate the

01:38:53.180 number of

01:38:53.720 people who

01:38:55.160 were who

01:38:56.600 had insufficient

01:38:57.240 nutrition

01:38:57.880 fell 25%

01:39:00.060 between 2005

01:39:01.400 and 2015

01:39:02.520 it's down to

01:39:03.760 about 1 in

01:39:04.340 10 so

01:39:06.020 and that's

01:39:06.820 just one

01:39:07.220 of many

01:39:07.700 things that

01:39:08.180 have been

01:39:08.500 transforming

01:39:09.140 in an

01:39:09.640 unbelievably

01:39:10.160 positive

01:39:10.700 direction

01:39:11.180 in the

01:39:11.460 last 20

01:39:11.940 years

01:39:12.200 so we

01:39:13.760 have these

01:39:14.200 challenges

01:39:14.640 that are

01:39:15.040 in front

01:39:15.360 of us

01:39:15.600 mastering

01:39:16.060 this

01:39:16.340 technology

01:39:16.920 staying

01:39:17.880 on top

01:39:18.340 of it

01:39:18.600 not allowing

01:39:19.340 it to

01:39:19.620 drive us

01:39:21.240 crazy

01:39:21.600 or destabilize

01:39:22.680 our social

01:39:23.160 institutions

01:39:23.760 too badly

01:39:24.340 but God

01:39:24.940 it's opening

01:39:25.840 up all

01:39:26.760 sorts of

01:39:27.200 avenues

01:39:27.580 for

01:39:27.980 unbelievable

01:39:29.360 improvement

01:39:30.020 so hopefully

01:39:31.440 we'll be

01:39:31.880 wise enough

01:39:32.460 to use it

01:39:33.880 for good

01:39:34.280 and not

01:39:34.660 for ill

01:39:35.200 and we'll

01:39:38.220 see but I

01:39:39.000 don't think

01:39:39.300 we can blame 0.55

01:39:39.780 it on social

01:39:40.380 media

01:39:40.760 it's worse

01:39:43.000 than that

01:39:43.580 what is a

01:39:47.560 perfect day

01:39:48.500 for Jordan

01:39:49.200 Peterson look

01:39:50.000 like

01:39:50.400 this was a

01:40:02.380 pretty good

01:40:02.680 day

01:40:02.960 and you

01:40:10.540 got bumped

01:40:11.260 off a

01:40:11.620 flight

01:40:11.820 today

01:40:12.140 yeah

01:40:12.500 well that

01:40:12.900 that made

01:40:13.400 me annoyed

01:40:13.880 because I

01:40:14.860 was

01:40:15.040 well I was

01:40:15.600 worried that I

01:40:16.100 wouldn't get

01:40:16.700 here

01:40:16.980 and you know

01:40:18.320 that bothered

01:40:18.860 me

01:40:19.160 so I was a

01:40:20.440 little agitated

01:40:21.140 about that

01:40:21.860 but

01:40:22.720 it's hard

01:40:25.040 to

01:40:25.320 I'm doing

01:40:27.920 what I want

01:40:28.400 to do

01:40:28.740 as far as I

01:40:29.860 can tell

01:40:30.260 my wife is

01:40:31.380 traveling with

01:40:31.940 me

01:40:32.060 I don't know

01:40:32.380 where she

01:40:32.680 is

01:40:32.840 she's hidden

01:40:33.260 in the

01:40:33.520 audience

01:40:33.800 here

01:40:34.040 somewhere

01:40:34.420 but she's 0.97

01:40:35.600 traveling with

01:40:36.140 me and

01:40:36.400 she's a big

01:40:36.840 help

01:40:37.220 we're not

01:40:43.880 really looking

01:40:44.420 to do

01:40:44.800 anything

01:40:45.100 different

01:40:45.520 I mean

01:40:45.960 it would

01:40:46.320 be

01:40:46.700 presumptuous

01:40:48.100 in the

01:40:48.420 extreme

01:40:48.900 not to

01:40:49.880 be

01:40:50.200 exceedingly

01:40:51.020 grateful

01:40:51.480 for everything

01:40:52.160 that's

01:40:52.480 happening

01:40:52.840 you know

01:40:54.000 so

01:40:54.460 I

01:40:55.180 really

01:40:55.740 like

01:40:55.980 these

01:40:56.220 talks

01:40:56.640 I

01:40:57.020 think

01:40:57.180 they're

01:40:57.360 a

01:40:57.460 great

01:40:57.660 privilege

01:40:58.120 they give

01:40:58.500 me a chance

01:40:58.960 to think

01:40:59.340 on my feet

01:40:59.980 and to

01:41:01.200 address

01:41:01.740 crucial

01:41:03.500 problems

01:41:04.340 that I think

01:41:04.840 are crucial

01:41:05.300 anyways

01:41:05.740 on an ongoing

01:41:07.080 basis

01:41:07.520 to test them

01:41:08.240 out in front

01:41:08.700 of a bunch

01:41:09.100 of people

01:41:09.520 I have

01:41:11.520 never done

01:41:12.220 anything

01:41:12.560 more positive

01:41:13.280 than go

01:41:13.720 on this

01:41:14.060 tour

01:41:14.360 it's

01:41:14.680 ridiculously

01:41:15.220 positive

01:41:15.960 you know

01:41:16.880 so

01:41:18.040 we've been

01:41:18.980 in 60

01:41:19.440 cities

01:41:19.840 in the

01:41:20.140 last

01:41:20.340 three

01:41:20.600 months

01:41:20.860 I think

01:41:21.300 I think

01:41:22.160 that's

01:41:22.460 right

01:41:22.680 something

01:41:23.040 like

01:41:23.300 that

01:41:23.580 it's

01:41:23.980 very

01:41:24.180 close

01:41:24.580 anyways

01:41:24.960 and

01:41:25.240 the

01:41:28.100 what would

01:41:31.780 you call

01:41:32.140 it

01:41:32.320 the

01:41:32.580 sense

01:41:33.680 from the

01:41:34.480 audience

01:41:34.820 is

01:41:35.100 similar

01:41:35.840 across

01:41:36.360 all the

01:41:36.740 different

01:41:37.520 venues

01:41:37.980 people

01:41:39.020 the people

01:41:39.880 you people

01:41:41.040 who are

01:41:41.360 coming here

01:41:41.960 are

01:41:42.940 as far

01:41:43.640 as I can

01:41:44.020 tell

01:41:44.280 trying to

01:41:45.840 participate

01:41:46.520 no

01:41:47.000 participating

01:41:47.680 in a

01:41:48.300 serious

01:41:48.740 conversation

01:41:49.560 about

01:41:50.500 vitally

01:41:51.840 important

01:41:52.300 things

01:41:52.800 in an

01:41:53.500 attempt

01:41:53.800 to

01:41:54.160 make

01:41:54.600 your

01:41:54.780 lives

01:41:55.140 better

01:41:55.840 and the

01:41:56.380 people

01:41:56.720 and the

01:41:57.620 lives

01:41:57.840 of the

01:41:58.100 people

01:41:58.300 around

01:41:58.600 you

01:41:58.780 better

01:41:59.080 as well

01:41:59.760 and so

01:42:00.800 that

01:42:02.000 how could

01:42:03.000 anything

01:42:03.340 possibly

01:42:03.920 be better

01:42:04.400 than that

01:42:04.920 that's

01:42:06.160 good

01:42:06.720 you know

01:42:07.800 and so

01:42:08.660 that's

01:42:09.180 an

01:42:09.320 exciting

01:42:09.700 opportunity

01:42:10.360 and very

01:42:11.780 heartwarming

01:42:13.300 let's say

01:42:14.140 and positive

01:42:14.780 and then

01:42:16.080 the other

01:42:16.740 thing

01:42:17.040 that happens

01:42:17.800 now all

01:42:18.320 the time

01:42:18.720 is that

01:42:19.140 people stop

01:42:20.720 me

01:42:20.980 and in

01:42:22.380 airports

01:42:22.780 and in

01:42:23.600 cafes

01:42:23.940 and on

01:42:25.020 the street

01:42:25.420 and they

01:42:26.840 usually

01:42:27.140 they tell

01:42:28.560 me that

01:42:28.860 they've been

01:42:29.200 watching my

01:42:29.680 lectures or

01:42:30.200 reading this

01:42:30.780 book which

01:42:31.200 has been

01:42:31.580 insanely

01:42:32.300 successful

01:42:33.040 and they

01:42:35.980 say

01:42:36.480 I've been

01:42:38.160 watching your

01:42:38.860 lectures

01:42:39.340 sometimes

01:42:40.520 hundreds of

01:42:41.120 hours of

01:42:41.620 them

01:42:41.800 reading your

01:42:42.680 book

01:42:42.980 my life

01:42:44.260 is a lot

01:42:44.660 better than

01:42:45.080 it was

01:42:45.540 thank you

01:42:46.640 I think

01:42:47.360 great

01:42:49.260 why

01:42:50.600 that's

01:42:51.580 how would

01:42:52.220 you

01:42:52.380 how could

01:42:53.040 you possibly

01:42:53.640 want anything

01:42:54.500 more than

01:42:55.000 to go

01:42:55.380 places that

01:42:56.220 you've never

01:42:56.620 been and

01:42:57.540 have people

01:42:58.100 that you

01:42:58.900 don't know

01:42:59.320 come up

01:42:59.760 and tell

01:43:00.140 you that

01:43:00.580 things are

01:43:01.840 better for

01:43:02.280 them because

01:43:02.800 they've been

01:43:03.500 interacting with

01:43:04.200 what you're

01:43:04.540 doing

01:43:04.800 that's it

01:43:05.900 doesn't get

01:43:06.680 any better

01:43:06.960 than that

01:43:07.420 that's a

01:43:08.060 perfect day

01:43:08.660 so

01:43:09.580 all right

01:43:19.080 we got time

01:43:19.640 for two

01:43:20.200 more

01:43:20.760 what do you

01:43:23.160 miss most

01:43:23.720 about your

01:43:24.180 clinical practice

01:43:25.100 well

01:43:34.780 I really

01:43:37.920 liked my

01:43:38.420 clinical

01:43:38.720 practice

01:43:39.300 I had a

01:43:40.760 fair number

01:43:41.220 of clients

01:43:41.800 who were

01:43:43.000 long-term

01:43:43.480 clients

01:43:44.020 some I'd

01:43:45.620 seen for

01:43:46.020 years

01:43:46.420 and you

01:43:47.220 know

01:43:47.320 so I

01:43:47.660 got kind

01:43:48.320 of twined

01:43:49.000 in with

01:43:49.540 their

01:43:49.800 lives

01:43:50.360 and

01:43:51.800 it was

01:43:52.980 an ongoing

01:43:53.480 adventure

01:43:54.080 to listen

01:43:55.920 to how

01:43:56.840 they were

01:43:57.260 laying

01:43:58.060 themselves

01:43:58.460 out in

01:43:58.820 the world

01:43:59.160 and to

01:43:59.600 talk with

01:44:00.540 them seriously

01:44:01.140 about how

01:44:01.980 things could

01:44:03.260 be just

01:44:03.740 made

01:44:04.020 continually

01:44:04.540 better

01:44:05.020 you know

01:44:06.380 and so

01:44:06.860 I had

01:44:09.100 I had

01:44:09.960 about 20

01:44:10.480 clients

01:44:11.020 some of

01:44:12.700 them were

01:44:12.920 shorter term

01:44:13.540 clients

01:44:14.140 and so I

01:44:14.540 didn't know

01:44:14.880 them as well

01:44:15.400 but I was

01:44:17.240 very deeply

01:44:17.840 involved in

01:44:18.460 their lives

01:44:19.000 and so

01:44:20.440 pulling away

01:44:21.020 from that

01:44:21.480 was

01:44:21.840 well there

01:44:26.180 was a

01:44:26.440 certain amount

01:44:26.800 of sorrow

01:44:27.260 associated

01:44:27.900 with it

01:44:28.400 you know

01:44:29.180 there was

01:44:31.080 no choice

01:44:31.660 because

01:44:32.080 I had

01:44:32.780 some rules

01:44:33.320 as a

01:44:33.880 therapist

01:44:34.220 and one

01:44:34.760 was

01:44:35.060 if you

01:44:35.780 came and

01:44:36.180 saw me

01:44:37.560 for an

01:44:38.300 hour

01:44:38.540 then I

01:44:39.700 didn't

01:44:40.020 think about

01:44:40.580 anything else

01:44:41.600 except what

01:44:42.460 we were

01:44:42.780 talking about

01:44:43.460 during that

01:44:44.000 hour

01:44:44.340 you know

01:44:45.520 and I

01:44:45.840 what I've

01:44:47.060 tried to

01:44:48.160 do

01:44:48.380 same thing

01:44:49.180 I'm trying

01:44:49.520 to do in

01:44:49.840 these talks

01:44:50.400 is my

01:44:52.660 presumption

01:44:53.740 was that

01:44:54.240 if I

01:44:54.500 started

01:44:54.900 thinking

01:44:55.360 about

01:44:55.680 something

01:44:56.080 else

01:44:56.480 that

01:44:57.160 either

01:44:57.380 meant

01:44:57.640 that

01:44:57.800 my

01:44:57.940 own

01:44:58.140 life

01:44:58.380 wasn't

01:44:58.700 in order

01:44:59.100 and that

01:45:00.280 wasn't

01:45:00.560 good

01:45:00.780 or

01:45:01.540 I

01:45:02.180 wasn't

01:45:02.560 having

01:45:02.940 an

01:45:03.160 interesting

01:45:03.700 enough

01:45:04.080 conversation

01:45:04.900 with the

01:45:05.480 person

01:45:05.800 that I

01:45:06.160 was

01:45:06.480 interacting

01:45:07.920 with

01:45:08.320 and so

01:45:09.560 I wasn't

01:45:09.800 doing my

01:45:10.140 job

01:45:10.380 properly

01:45:10.900 if you

01:45:11.820 do your

01:45:12.080 job

01:45:12.320 properly

01:45:12.840 probably

01:45:13.840 whenever

01:45:14.240 you have

01:45:14.640 a

01:45:14.780 conversation

01:45:15.380 with

01:45:15.660 someone

01:45:16.000 it's

01:45:16.780 so

01:45:16.980 interesting

01:45:17.500 that you

01:45:17.940 don't

01:45:18.180 think of

01:45:18.540 anything

01:45:18.840 else

01:45:19.200 if you're

01:45:19.800 thinking of

01:45:20.180 something

01:45:20.460 else

01:45:20.860 then you're

01:45:22.920 not

01:45:23.180 really

01:45:24.960 engaged

01:45:25.680 in the

01:45:26.080 conversation

01:45:26.760 and so

01:45:28.420 but what

01:45:28.860 happened

01:45:29.200 because my

01:45:29.700 life got

01:45:30.060 so complicated

01:45:30.680 was that

01:45:31.800 my mind

01:45:32.580 was wandering

01:45:33.160 and that

01:45:34.440 wasn't good

01:45:35.020 because you

01:45:35.580 make a

01:45:35.860 mistake

01:45:36.240 if you're

01:45:36.780 you know

01:45:37.140 if you're

01:45:37.500 a clinician

01:45:37.960 and people

01:45:39.020 are

01:45:39.300 they're talking

01:45:41.140 to you about

01:45:41.640 things they

01:45:42.140 can't figure

01:45:42.780 out

01:45:43.120 they're hard

01:45:43.900 problems

01:45:44.540 and there's

01:45:45.620 a lot

01:45:45.960 on the

01:45:46.260 line

01:45:46.620 and you

01:45:47.280 can't

01:45:47.680 be

01:45:47.920 inattentive

01:45:48.600 because

01:45:48.980 you make

01:45:49.720 a mistake

01:45:50.200 and then

01:45:50.580 it'll be

01:45:51.460 a mistake

01:45:52.260 you know

01:45:52.660 like there'll

01:45:53.380 be pain

01:45:54.280 associated

01:45:54.900 with it

01:45:55.300 and so

01:45:55.660 and then

01:45:56.420 the other

01:45:56.720 thing was

01:45:57.280 is I got

01:45:57.740 so busy

01:45:58.180 that I

01:45:58.540 couldn't

01:45:58.940 be available

01:45:59.700 you know

01:46:00.740 like most

01:46:01.160 of my

01:46:01.420 clients

01:46:01.820 if you're

01:46:02.760 a good

01:46:03.020 psychologist

01:46:03.900 you have

01:46:04.620 fairly

01:46:04.900 tight

01:46:05.200 boundaries

01:46:05.640 around

01:46:06.000 your

01:46:06.160 time

01:46:06.420 everybody

01:46:06.740 understands

01:46:07.380 the rules

01:46:07.880 and my

01:46:09.020 clients weren't

01:46:09.620 phoning me

01:46:10.280 all the

01:46:10.680 time

01:46:11.080 but now

01:46:12.940 and then

01:46:13.280 they would

01:46:13.820 and I'd

01:46:14.680 have to be

01:46:15.280 I'd have to

01:46:16.100 have some

01:46:16.740 in reserve

01:46:17.400 so that I

01:46:18.200 could have

01:46:18.960 an intelligent

01:46:19.620 conversation

01:46:20.420 and I had

01:46:20.940 nothing in

01:46:21.440 reserve

01:46:21.800 so I had

01:46:23.160 to stop

01:46:23.720 and so

01:46:25.080 you know

01:46:26.560 because I

01:46:27.100 had been

01:46:27.440 involved in

01:46:28.180 all of these

01:46:28.780 people's

01:46:29.220 lives

01:46:29.600 I don't

01:46:32.280 know what

01:46:32.720 I'm missing

01:46:33.460 the story

01:46:34.140 I don't

01:46:34.520 know what's

01:46:34.960 happening

01:46:35.420 you know

01:46:36.480 and some

01:46:37.940 of them email

01:46:38.420 me and keep

01:46:40.060 me updated

01:46:40.620 but

01:46:41.800 I'm not

01:46:46.620 complaining

01:46:47.040 about it

01:46:47.520 because you

01:46:48.480 have to let

01:46:48.920 things go

01:46:49.400 when you have

01:46:49.840 to let them

01:46:50.240 go

01:46:50.460 and it was

01:46:51.340 time to let

01:46:51.780 it go

01:46:52.040 because there

01:46:52.500 was no way

01:46:53.100 of continuing

01:46:53.640 it properly

01:46:54.260 and so I'm

01:46:55.520 on to this

01:46:56.180 whatever this

01:46:56.880 is and it

01:46:57.420 seems to be

01:46:57.960 working out

01:46:58.420 quite well

01:46:59.000 but I do

01:47:00.260 you know

01:47:01.260 I like being

01:47:01.860 a clinician

01:47:02.340 and maybe

01:47:03.120 I'll return

01:47:03.600 to it at

01:47:04.060 some point

01:47:04.500 seems somewhat

01:47:05.740 unlikely

01:47:06.280 but

01:47:07.120 but I did

01:47:08.640 it was

01:47:09.380 it's a very

01:47:09.980 good job

01:47:10.560 so

01:47:11.620 all right

01:47:14.180 and finally

01:47:14.920 and perhaps

01:47:15.860 most importantly

01:47:16.760 why do you

01:47:18.860 sound so much

01:47:19.500 like Kermit

01:47:19.960 the Frog

01:47:20.360 well if you

01:47:24.600 have to be 0.55

01:47:25.140 cursed

01:47:25.600 by sounding

01:47:27.900 like a

01:47:28.660 Muppet

01:47:29.100 which one

01:47:32.200 would you

01:47:32.600 pick

01:47:32.940 if you

01:47:39.880 found this

01:47:40.240 conversation

01:47:40.800 meaningful

01:47:41.340 you might

01:47:41.980 think about

01:47:42.420 picking up

01:47:42.880 dad's books

01:47:43.540 maps of

01:47:44.140 meaning

01:47:44.400 the

01:47:44.620 architecture

01:47:45.100 of

01:47:45.340 belief

01:47:45.680 or his

01:47:46.340 newer

01:47:46.520 bestseller

01:47:47.120 12 rules

01:47:47.800 for life

01:47:48.280 an antidote

01:47:48.840 to chaos

01:47:49.440 both of

01:47:50.580 these works

01:47:51.080 delve much

01:47:51.900 deeper into

01:47:52.400 the topics

01:47:52.900 covered in

01:47:53.440 the Jordan

01:47:53.780 B.

01:47:54.020 Peterson

01:47:54.280 podcast

01:47:54.960 see

01:47:55.940 jordanbpeterson.com

01:47:57.580 for audio

01:47:58.360 ebook

01:47:58.980 and text

01:47:59.540 links

01:47:59.880 or pick up

01:48:00.800 the books

01:48:01.120 at your

01:48:01.360 favorite

01:48:01.620 bookseller

01:48:02.140 next week

01:48:04.000 do we have

01:48:04.800 a treat

01:48:05.120 for you

01:48:05.540 guys

01:48:05.940 Joe Rogan

01:48:07.020 that's right

01:48:08.120 next week

01:48:09.080 we're releasing

01:48:09.580 a conversation

01:48:10.280 between Joe

01:48:10.860 Rogan and

01:48:11.320 dad

01:48:11.600 I thought

01:48:12.380 I'd like

01:48:12.880 start at

01:48:13.320 the beginning

01:48:13.740 so I

01:48:14.460 don't know

01:48:14.780 that much

01:48:15.200 about you

01:48:15.700 so where

01:48:16.320 did you

01:48:16.500 grow up

01:48:16.920 I grew up

01:48:18.020 in a lot

01:48:18.460 of places

01:48:18.980 I was born

01:48:19.780 in New Jersey

01:48:20.500 we moved

01:48:21.100 to California

01:48:21.980 we lived

01:48:22.720 in San Francisco

01:48:23.560 then I lived

01:48:24.320 in Florida

01:48:24.980 then we moved

01:48:26.560 to Boston

01:48:27.260 and I lived

01:48:28.040 in Boston

01:48:28.680 for 10 years

01:48:30.280 when I think

01:48:30.860 of where I

01:48:31.280 come from

01:48:31.780 I think

01:48:32.320 of Boston

01:48:32.800 it's also

01:48:33.280 the place

01:48:33.680 where I

01:48:33.920 started doing

01:48:34.400 stand-up comedy

01:48:35.180 which means

01:48:35.920 a lot to me

01:48:36.700 it's also

01:48:37.040 where I

01:48:37.240 started fighting

01:48:37.920 it's where

01:48:38.260 I started

01:48:38.500 doing martial

01:48:39.060 arts

01:48:39.400 all the

01:48:39.900 significant

01:48:40.420 things that

01:48:41.180 happened in

01:48:41.620 my life

01:48:42.020 happened in

01:48:42.520 Boston

01:48:42.900 the conversation

01:48:43.780 was recorded

01:48:44.500 on April

01:48:44.920 24th

01:48:45.640 2019

01:48:46.140 Joe Rogan

01:48:47.580 is an

01:48:47.920 American

01:48:48.240 stand-up

01:48:48.780 comedian

01:48:49.220 MMA

01:48:49.900 commentator

01:48:50.680 podcast

01:48:51.560 host

01:48:52.160 I was on

01:48:52.820 his podcast

01:48:53.240 last year

01:48:53.900 which was

01:48:54.300 insanely cool

01:48:55.140 businessman

01:48:55.920 and former

01:48:56.780 television host

01:48:57.620 and actor

01:48:58.120 he doesn't

01:48:59.140 really need

01:48:59.680 much of an

01:49:00.360 introduction

01:49:00.840 talk to you

01:49:02.320 guys next

01:49:02.720 week

01:49:02.980 hope you

01:49:03.400 enjoyed this

01:49:03.900 episode

01:49:04.360 and you

01:49:04.760 will definitely

01:49:05.280 enjoy

01:49:05.740 next week's

01:49:06.480 episode

01:49:06.900 follow me

01:49:07.840 on my

01:49:08.240 YouTube

01:49:08.600 channel

01:49:09.220 Jordan

01:49:09.660 B

01:49:09.940 Peterson

01:49:10.400 on

01:49:11.020 Twitter

01:49:11.360 at

01:49:11.940 Jordan

01:49:12.300 B

01:49:12.520 Peterson

01:49:12.960 on Facebook

01:49:14.140 at

01:49:14.800 Dr.

01:49:15.300 Jordan

01:49:15.580 B

01:49:15.820 Peterson

01:49:16.260 and at

01:49:16.940 Instagram

01:49:17.360 at

01:49:17.740 Jordan

01:49:18.100 dot

01:49:18.500 B

01:49:18.820 dot

01:49:19.160 Peterson

01:49:19.660 details

01:49:20.400 on this

01:49:21.120 show

01:49:21.540 access to

01:49:22.560 my blog

01:49:23.220 information

01:49:23.960 about my

01:49:24.720 tour dates

01:49:25.320 and other

01:49:25.700 events

01:49:26.140 and my

01:49:26.680 list of

01:49:27.140 recommended

01:49:27.580 books

01:49:28.180 can be

01:49:28.800 found on

01:49:29.180 my website

01:49:29.880 Jordan

01:49:30.540 B

01:49:30.820 Peterson

01:49:31.240 dot com

01:49:32.020 my online

01:49:33.000 writing

01:49:33.360 programs

01:49:34.100 designed to

01:49:34.800 help people

01:49:35.340 straighten out

01:49:35.960 their

01:49:36.160 pasts

01:49:36.900 understand

01:49:37.500 themselves

01:49:38.080 in the

01:49:38.420 present

01:49:38.800 and develop

01:49:39.540 a sophisticated

01:49:40.180 vision and

01:49:41.000 strategy for

01:49:41.660 the future

01:49:42.200 can be found

01:49:43.000 at

01:49:43.200 self

01:49:43.540 authoring

01:49:44.160 dot com

01:49:44.960 that's

01:49:45.660 self

01:49:45.940 authoring

01:49:46.580 dot com

01:49:47.480 from the

01:49:49.100 Westwood One

01:49:49.960 podcast network

01:49:51.280 dot com

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01:50:07.480 dot com

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - May 26, 2019

12 Rules Vancouver： Five levels of chaos and order

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