The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 127. Biblical Series： A Wrestling with God

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

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00:00:57.420 Welcome to Season 3, Episode 14 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.

00:01:02.380 I'm Michaela Peterson, Jordan's daughter.

00:01:04.700 I hope you enjoy this episode. It's called A Wrestling With God.

00:01:08.780 Yesterday, Dad released the podcast he and I did on his YouTube channel.

00:01:12.940 It was originally released on my podcast, but he thought it was a good idea to release it on his channel so it would be more widespread.

00:01:18.720 Yesterday was also World Benzodiazepine Awareness Day, and so this seemed like an appropriate day to bring some awareness to the medication that nearly cost my dad his life.

00:01:28.300 If you haven't seen the video yet, it's uploaded on his YouTube channel, or the audio version is on my podcast, the Michaela Peterson Podcast.

00:01:37.220 We'll be doing another health update in podcast form in a few weeks.

00:01:41.380 For now, Dad's still doing very well. He's finishing up his book, swimming, getting stronger, and everything's still going well.

00:01:49.380 I hope you enjoy this episode.

00:01:52.200 It's fantastic to have my dad returning to health, and you guys know how long of a journey it's been.

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00:03:00.480 It's been more than 75 years since many courageous soldiers, maybe even your grandfather, left home to fight in World War II.

00:03:09.420 I didn't have any relatives that fought in World War II or World War I.

00:03:13.260 My great-great-grandma actually went and got my 16-year-old great-grandfather and brought him home when he tried to go fight in World War I.

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00:03:50.320 Discover your untold stories and more.

00:03:52.660 Head to my URL at Ancestry.com slash Jordan to start discovering your story today.

00:03:58.660 That's Ancestry.com slash Jordan.

00:04:05.420 Season 3, Episode 14, A Wrestling with God, a Jordan B. Peterson Lecture.

00:04:14.200 All right, so the last time I was here, many of you were as well, we got halfway through the story of Jacob, and I've been digging underneath the story sporadically since then to try to find out what other themes are being developed.

00:04:32.100 And I've got some things that I think are really interesting to talk about.

00:04:36.780 So we'll get right into it.

00:04:40.540 So I'm going to review a little bit first.

00:04:42.580 So we were talking about Jacob, and I'll re-update his biography a little bit so that we can place ourselves in the proper context before we go on.

00:04:56.240 So his mother, Rebecca, gave birth to twins, and the twins, even in her womb, were struggling for, well, they were struggling.

00:05:04.500 And, of course, the story is that they were struggling for dominance, the older, or the younger against the older, really, because Jacob, Jacob means usurper.

00:05:12.860 And Rebecca had a, what would you call, a vision from God that said that Jacob would supplant Esau.

00:05:24.000 And so even before her twins were born, they were in a state of competition.

00:05:29.540 And that's a recapitulation of the motif of the hostile brothers, right?

00:05:33.980 It's a very, very, very common mythological motif.

00:05:37.440 And we already saw that really well-developed in the story of Cain and Abel, right?

00:05:42.700 And Cain and Abel were essentially the first two human beings, the first two natural-born human beings.

00:05:48.240 And they were instantly locked in a state of enmity, which is symbolic of, first, the enmity that exists within people's psyche.

00:05:58.360 Between the part of them, you might say, that's aiming at the light, and the part of them that's aiming at the darkness.

00:06:04.060 And I think that's a reasonable way of portraying it.

00:06:07.340 Obviously, it's a way that's sort of rife with symbolism.

00:06:11.100 But my experience of people, especially when you get to know them seriously or when they're dealing with serious issues,

00:06:19.380 is that there is quite clearly a part of them that's striving to do well in the world or even to do good.

00:06:26.260 And another part that's deeply cynical and embittered that says to hell with it and is self-destructive and lashes out and really aims at making things worse.

00:06:37.120 And so that seems to be a natural part of the human psyche.

00:06:42.800 And that's also reflected in the idea of the fall.

00:06:47.700 And so those ideas are not easily cast away.

00:06:50.320 They're associated with the rise of self-consciousness, right, in the story of the Garden of Eden.

00:06:55.400 And I think that's right because I do think that our self-consciousness produces that division within us

00:07:02.060 because more than any other creature, we're intensely aware of our finitude and suffering.

00:07:08.980 And that tends to turn us, at least to some degree, against being itself.

00:07:13.640 You know, I was watching a bunch of protesters in the U.S. last week scream at the sky about Trump, you know.

00:07:24.140 And it was interesting.

00:07:27.060 Like, I thought it was an extraordinarily narcissistic display.

00:07:30.860 But despite that, there's something symbolically appropriate about it.

00:07:35.380 I also, there's a movie I really like, sadly enough, called Fubar.

00:07:40.700 I don't know how many of you have seen that.

00:07:45.060 Yeah, you know that movie, I take it.

00:07:47.660 Yeah, it's about the people I grew up with.

00:07:50.500 So, yeah, that's true, man.

00:07:52.780 I'm telling you, that's true.

00:07:54.540 So, the guy, the main actor in Fubar, who's quite bright but completely uncivilized,

00:08:00.880 gets testicular cancer.

00:08:02.860 And there's one great scene where he gets far too drunk and he's stumbling around the street, you know,

00:08:07.480 in a virtually comatose state.

00:08:10.560 And, of course, he's not very thrilled with what's happened to him.

00:08:13.080 And he's shaking his fist at the sky.

00:08:15.240 It's pouring rain and he's cursing God.

00:08:17.080 And, you know, it's like, well, you can kind of understand his position.

00:08:21.380 So, that kind of reminded me of these people who were yelling at the sky, you know.

00:08:25.700 They were basically, they were dramatizing the idea of, they were enraged at, well, you could say God.

00:08:32.500 Of course, most of them wouldn't say that. 0.99

00:08:34.040 But, they were the ones yelling at the damn sky. 0.99

00:08:37.160 I mean, you know. 0.99

00:08:38.380 So, you gotta, you gotta look at what they're doing rather than what they say.

00:08:41.940 And they were outraged that being was constructed such that Trump could have arisen as president.

00:08:47.500 And so, well, so this idea, you know, that we can be easily turned against being and work for its destruction is a really,

00:08:56.960 it's a really common, common, common theme.

00:08:59.720 It never goes away.

00:09:01.080 You see it echoed in stories like with the new Marvel series, for example.

00:09:05.360 You see the enmity between Thor and Loki.

00:09:08.400 That's a good example of the same thing.

00:09:10.140 Or between Batman and the Joker, there's, or Superman and Lex Luthor, these, there's these pairs of hero against villain.

00:09:18.700 That's a really dramatic and easily, what, everyone can understand that dynamic, right?

00:09:26.240 It's a basic plot.

00:09:28.080 And the reason it's a basic plot is because it's true of the battle within our spirits, our own individual spirits.

00:09:34.640 It's true within families, because sibling rivalry can be unbelievably brutal.

00:09:39.720 It's true between human beings who are strangers.

00:09:42.320 It's true between groups of people, like, it's true at every level of analysis.

00:09:46.780 And then, in some sense, it's archetypally true, at least with regards to deep religious symbolism,

00:09:54.960 because you see that echoed in many stories as well.

00:09:57.820 So, I think the clearest representation is probably Christ and Satan.

00:10:01.540 That's the closest to a pure archetype, although there's, in the old Egyptian stories,

00:10:07.420 there's Osiris and Seth, or Horus and Seth.

00:10:11.360 And Seth is a precursor to Satan, etymologically.

00:10:15.380 So, it's a very, very common motif.

00:10:17.880 And so, that's what happens, again, in Rebecca's womb, is that this thing, this idea is played out right away.

00:10:23.180 And the two twins are actually, what would you call it there, they have a superordinate destiny,

00:10:34.000 because one of them is destined to become the father of Israel.

00:10:38.880 And, of course, that's a pinnacle moment in the Old Testament, obviously,

00:10:43.840 and, arguably, a pinnacle moment in human history.

00:10:47.520 Now, you know, the degree to which the stories in the Old Testament actually constitute what we would consider empirical history

00:10:54.500 is a matter of debate.

00:10:56.160 But, it doesn't matter, in some sense, because, as I mentioned, I think, before in this lecture series,

00:11:03.780 you know, there are forms of fiction that are meta-true,

00:11:08.680 which means that they're not necessarily about a specific individual,

00:11:13.480 although I generally think they are based on the life of specific individuals.

00:11:17.060 It's the simplest theory, but who knows, right?

00:11:20.120 But, they're more real than reality itself,

00:11:24.780 because they abstract out the most relevant elements of reality and present them to you.

00:11:29.900 And that's why you watch fiction.

00:11:31.440 You know, you want your fiction boiled down, right?

00:11:35.200 You want it boiled down to the essence.

00:11:36.820 That's what makes good fiction.

00:11:38.680 And that essence is something that's truer than plain old truth,

00:11:43.740 if it's handled well.

00:11:45.800 And so, you know, if you watch a Shakespeare play,

00:11:48.940 half a lifetime of events can go by in a Shakespeare play.

00:11:53.360 And it covers, you know, a wide range of scenes and so on.

00:11:58.160 And so, it's cut and edited and compressed all at once,

00:12:02.260 but because of that, it blasts you with a kind of emotional and ethical force

00:12:07.780 that just the mere videotaping of someone's daily life,

00:12:12.820 you know, wouldn't even come close to approximating.

00:12:15.880 So, and this motif of the hostile brothers,

00:12:19.800 that's a deep, deep archetypal truth.

00:12:26.040 And God says to Rachel,

00:12:29.400 two nations are in thy womb, 0.97

00:12:30.820 and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels, 0.97

00:12:33.620 and one people shall be stronger than the other.

00:12:35.880 And the elder shall serve the younger.

00:12:37.700 And so, there's an inversion there, right?

00:12:40.800 Because, as we've discussed,

00:12:45.340 historically speaking and traditionally speaking,

00:12:47.920 it's the elder son to whom the disproportionate blessings flow.

00:12:53.240 So, there's some truth in that, too.

00:12:56.880 Even more, what would you say?

00:13:00.940 More empirically, IQ tends to decrease

00:13:03.800 as the number of children in the family increase.

00:13:06.880 The younger, the oldest, is the smartest, generally speaking.

00:13:10.260 It isn't clear why that is,

00:13:11.620 but it might be that they get more attention.

00:13:13.960 But who knows?

00:13:15.100 So, those of you who are younger can be very unhappy about that fact.

00:13:20.520 Now, Jacob.

00:13:21.440 Okay, so there's another plot line here, too,

00:13:26.840 because Abraham and Rebekah are at odds.

00:13:35.660 Sorry, Isaac and Rebekah are at odds about the children, right?

00:13:39.980 So, there's an Oedipal twist to it, too,

00:13:43.600 because, well, Isaac is allied with Esau,

00:13:47.460 who turns out to be the hunter type.

00:13:49.300 So, he's your basic rough-and-tumble character, you know?

00:13:52.940 And he's kind of a wild-looking guy, hairy,

00:13:55.920 and he likes to be outside.

00:13:57.360 He lives in tents.

00:13:58.160 He likes to hunt.

00:13:58.940 He's a man's man.

00:14:00.240 That's one way of thinking about it.

00:14:01.780 Whereas Jacob dwells in tents, you know?

00:14:04.200 He doesn't go outside much.

00:14:05.340 He's more, well, maybe he's more introverted,

00:14:07.960 but he's certainly this sort of kid, adolescent, say,

00:14:11.480 who hangs around home.

00:14:13.340 And there's some intimation that he's his mother,

00:14:15.900 well, he's clearly his mother's favorite,

00:14:17.740 and with all the advantages,

00:14:19.620 and I suppose disadvantages that go along with that.

00:14:22.240 And Isaac and Rebekah don't see eye to eye

00:14:25.680 about who should have predominance among the sons.

00:14:29.840 And Rebekah is quite complicit with Jacob

00:14:35.200 in inverting the social order.

00:14:38.360 So, the first thing that happens that's crooked

00:14:40.740 is that Esau comes in from hunting,

00:14:46.020 and he's, you know, maybe he's been out for a number of days,

00:14:48.460 and he's ravenous,

00:14:49.720 and he's kind of an impulsive guy,

00:14:51.520 doesn't really seem to think about the long term very much.

00:14:55.200 And Jacob was cooking some lentil stew,

00:14:59.000 and Esau wants some of it,

00:15:01.380 and Jacob refuses,

00:15:02.700 and then says that he'll trade his birthright for it.

00:15:09.220 And Esau agrees, which is a bad deal, right?

00:15:14.060 It's a bad deal.

00:15:15.840 And so you could say that Esau actually deserves

00:15:18.940 what's coming to him.

00:15:20.440 Although, at minimum,

00:15:24.200 you'd have to think of them both as being equally culpable.

00:15:26.980 It's a nasty trick.

00:15:28.580 And so, that's Jacob's first trick.

00:15:31.140 And then,

00:15:34.140 the second trick is that, and it's later,

00:15:38.840 and Isaac is old and blind,

00:15:41.120 and, you know, close to death,

00:15:43.100 and it's time for him to bestow a blessing on his sons,

00:15:47.100 which is a very important event,

00:15:48.600 apparently, among these ancient people.

00:15:50.260 And Esau, again, is out hunting,

00:15:55.180 and Rachel dresses Jacob up in a hairy,

00:15:59.420 puts a goat skin on his arm,

00:16:00.980 so he's kind of hairy like Esau,

00:16:03.180 and dresses him in Esau's clothes,

00:16:04.760 so he smells like Esau.

00:16:05.920 And Isaac tells Esau to go out and hunt him up some venison,

00:16:12.920 some venison, I think it is,

00:16:15.280 and, which is a favorite of his,

00:16:16.980 and Rebecca has Jacob cook up a couple of goat kids,

00:16:20.600 and serve that to Isaac,

00:16:22.900 and play the role of Esau.

00:16:26.100 And so, he does that.

00:16:27.640 It's pretty damn nasty, really,

00:16:29.560 all things considered,

00:16:31.260 you know, to play a trick like that,

00:16:33.300 both on your brother,

00:16:34.180 and on your blind father,

00:16:36.220 and in collusion with your mother.

00:16:38.080 It's not the sort of thing that's really designed

00:16:40.360 to promote a lot of familial harmony.

00:16:43.260 And so, especially because you've already

00:16:45.860 screwed him over in a big way once,

00:16:48.320 you know, you'd think,

00:16:49.140 you'd think that would be sufficient.

00:16:51.700 So, anyways, he's successful,

00:16:54.400 and Esau loses his father's blessing,

00:16:56.640 and so that,

00:16:57.880 Jacob ends up really in the position of the firstborn.

00:17:00.840 And it's quite interesting,

00:17:02.080 because, you know, God tells Rachel

00:17:03.980 that Jacob is going to be the dominant twin,

00:17:06.680 and you'd think again,

00:17:08.180 with God's blessing,

00:17:10.120 or at least the prophecy,

00:17:11.340 that Jacob would end up being a good guy.

00:17:13.780 But, he's certainly not presented that way

00:17:16.160 to begin with,

00:17:16.760 which is also quite interesting,

00:17:18.000 given that he's the eventual founder of Israel.

00:17:20.540 And it's another indication of the realism

00:17:22.780 of these old stories, you know,

00:17:24.380 and it's quite amazing to me,

00:17:26.380 it's always been quite amazing to me,

00:17:27.800 how unpretified these stories have remained.

00:17:31.900 You know, because you'd think that,

00:17:33.620 if you're even the least bit cynical,

00:17:35.460 especially if you had the kind of Marxist,

00:17:37.980 religion is the opiate of the masses kind of viewpoint,

00:17:41.080 which is a credible viewpoint, you know,

00:17:43.600 although it's wrong,

00:17:44.640 but it's, well,

00:17:45.820 I think it's a shallow,

00:17:47.700 I think it's a shallow interpretation.

00:17:50.180 And a part of the reason I think

00:17:51.240 it's a shallow interpretation

00:17:52.220 is because the stories would be a lot prettier

00:17:55.100 if that was the case.

00:17:57.260 These characters wouldn't have this strange,

00:18:00.580 realistic, moral ambiguity about them.

00:18:03.660 You know, if you're going to feed people a fantasy,

00:18:07.260 then you want it to be like a Harlequin novel

00:18:09.920 or a greeting card or something like that.

00:18:12.840 You don't want it to be a story

00:18:14.980 that's full of betrayal and deceit

00:18:16.700 and murder and mayhem and genocide

00:18:18.680 and all of that.

00:18:19.520 If that just doesn't seem all that,

00:18:22.020 what would you say?

00:18:22.880 Calming, I guess, would be the right answer.

00:18:25.740 So anyways, Jacob gets away with this,

00:18:29.700 but Esau is not happy

00:18:31.560 and Jacob is quite convinced

00:18:33.520 that he might kill him.

00:18:34.920 And I think that was a reasonable fear

00:18:36.560 because Esau was a tough guy

00:18:38.000 and he was used to being outside

00:18:39.360 and he knew how to hunt

00:18:40.800 and he knew how to kill

00:18:41.800 and he actually wasn't very happy 0.98

00:18:43.640 about getting seriously screwed over

00:18:46.100 by his, you know, 0.90

00:18:47.580 stay-at-home younger brother twice.

00:18:50.100 And so Jacob runs off

00:18:51.500 and goes to visit his uncle.

00:18:53.540 And on the way,

00:18:54.740 and this is a very interesting

00:18:55.880 part of the story,

00:18:57.360 he stops to sleep

00:18:59.980 and he takes a stone for a pillow

00:19:02.700 and then he has this vision.

00:19:04.580 It's called a dream.

00:19:06.220 But the context makes it look like a vision

00:19:08.920 of a ladder reaching up to heaven

00:19:11.860 and with angels moving up and down

00:19:14.880 the ladder, let's say.

00:19:17.480 And there's some representations of that.

00:19:19.800 I showed you some of them

00:19:20.600 the last time we met,

00:19:21.940 but I'll read it to you first.

00:19:24.640 And he lighted upon a certain place

00:19:26.000 and tired there all night

00:19:27.040 because the sun was set

00:19:28.060 and he took of the stones of that place

00:19:29.680 and put them for his pillows

00:19:31.200 and lay down in that place to sleep.

00:19:33.380 And he dreamed and beheld

00:19:34.920 a ladder set up on the earth

00:19:36.800 and the top of it reached to heaven

00:19:38.500 and behold the angels of God

00:19:40.580 ascending and descending on it.

00:19:42.480 And behold the Lord stood above it

00:19:43.880 and said,

00:19:44.360 I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father

00:19:46.280 and the God of Isaac.

00:19:48.340 The land whereon thou liest

00:19:50.280 to thee I will give it and to thy seed

00:19:52.320 and thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth

00:19:54.640 and thou shalt spread abroad to the west

00:19:56.480 and to the east and to the north and the south.

00:19:58.640 So that lays out the canonical directions, right?

00:20:01.380 So now there's a center

00:20:02.440 with the canonical directions.

00:20:04.440 Like the thing that you see,

00:20:05.660 you know, that little symbol you see on maps?

00:20:07.680 It's the same thing

00:20:08.780 that symbolically placed upon the earth.

00:20:11.420 So a center has been established

00:20:13.280 with radiating,

00:20:14.600 well, with what?

00:20:16.960 With directional lines radiating from it.

00:20:20.020 So it establishes it as a place.

00:20:24.120 And in the end,

00:20:24.740 thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

00:20:27.300 So that's pretty good news for Jacob.

00:20:29.000 And it's not self-evident

00:20:30.180 why God is rewarding him

00:20:31.740 for running away after screwing over his brother.

00:20:34.320 But that seems to be what happens.

00:20:36.540 And so here's a couple of representations,

00:20:39.240 classic representations.

00:20:40.420 The one on the right is William Blake.

00:20:43.480 It's one I particularly like.

00:20:46.440 You know, and Blake assimilates

00:20:47.820 God with the sun

00:20:50.260 and with light, right?

00:20:52.440 So that's quite a common mythological idea

00:20:56.360 that God is associated with light

00:20:58.580 and the day.

00:21:02.060 Behold, I am with thee

00:21:03.040 and will keep thee in all places

00:21:04.200 whither thou goest

00:21:05.120 and will bring thee again into this land

00:21:06.720 for I will not leave thee

00:21:08.180 until I have done that

00:21:09.520 which I have spoken to thee of.

00:21:11.000 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep

00:21:12.540 and he said,

00:21:13.660 surely the Lord is in this place

00:21:15.100 and I knew it not.

00:21:16.100 And he was afraid,

00:21:17.320 which is exactly the right response,

00:21:19.900 and said,

00:21:20.440 how dreadful is this place?

00:21:22.400 It is none other than the house of God

00:21:24.140 and this is the gate of heaven.

00:21:26.160 And Jacob rose up early in the morning

00:21:27.640 and took the stone

00:21:28.380 that he had put for his pillows

00:21:29.540 and set it up for a pillar

00:21:30.980 and poured oil on the top of it.

00:21:33.140 And that's a more important thing

00:21:34.780 than you think.

00:21:36.020 And we'll go into that

00:21:36.980 a little bit more deeply

00:21:38.320 because up to this point in the story,

00:21:40.780 there isn't anything really,

00:21:42.380 there isn't anything

00:21:43.340 that's really emerged

00:21:44.500 to mark a sacred space, right?

00:21:46.640 There's no cathedral,

00:21:48.100 there's no church,

00:21:48.880 there's nothing like that.

00:21:50.080 But here's this idea that emerges

00:21:51.640 that you can mark the center of something

00:21:54.220 and that's important

00:21:56.060 and you mark it with a stone.

00:21:58.240 And a stone's a good way to mark things

00:21:59.940 that are important

00:22:00.960 because a stone is permanent, right?

00:22:02.800 And we mark things with stones now,

00:22:04.640 like we mark graves with stones,

00:22:05.920 for example.

00:22:06.900 Because we want to make a memory

00:22:08.520 and to carve something into stone,

00:22:10.660 to carve a stone

00:22:11.380 and then to carve something into stone

00:22:12.720 is to make a memory

00:22:14.180 and to use stone

00:22:15.120 is to make a memory

00:22:16.240 because stone is permanent.

00:22:18.100 And to set it upright

00:22:19.040 is to indicate a center.

00:22:21.980 And so that's what happens

00:22:23.580 and pours oil on the top of it,

00:22:25.140 which is a kind of offering.

00:22:26.800 And he called the name of that place Bethel.

00:22:28.900 But the name of the city

00:22:29.760 was called Luzzat the first.

00:22:31.400 And Jacob vowed a vow

00:22:32.620 saying,

00:22:34.060 if God will be with me

00:22:35.020 and will keep me in this way

00:22:36.260 that I go

00:22:36.740 and will give me bread to eat

00:22:37.920 and raiment to put on,

00:22:40.580 then a tenth of what I earn

00:22:43.120 I will give him.

00:22:44.380 I missed that.

00:22:46.660 That's interesting too

00:22:47.740 because now there's a transformation

00:22:49.120 of sacrifice, right?

00:22:50.560 Because until that point,

00:22:52.720 sacrifices had been pretty concretized.

00:22:55.480 It was the burning of something.

00:22:57.220 Whereas here all of a sudden

00:22:58.480 it's the offering of

00:23:00.400 productive labor per se,

00:23:04.460 like a tithe.

00:23:05.420 Because a tithe is a form of sacrifice.

00:23:07.460 And so there's an abstraction

00:23:08.460 of the idea of sacrifice.

00:23:09.960 Now, sacrifice,

00:23:11.000 it's really important

00:23:12.020 that the idea of sacrifice

00:23:13.780 gets abstracted, right?

00:23:15.760 Because it should be abstracted

00:23:17.620 to the point where

00:23:18.420 it's used the way

00:23:20.260 that we use it today,

00:23:21.360 which is, you know,

00:23:22.040 we make sacrifices to get ahead

00:23:23.720 and everyone understands

00:23:25.000 what that means.

00:23:25.740 But the sacrifices are

00:23:27.320 generally some combination

00:23:30.040 of psychological and practical.

00:23:33.720 So we're not acting them out.

00:23:35.320 We're precisely,

00:23:36.760 we're not dramatizing them

00:23:38.060 or ritualizing them.

00:23:38.960 We actually act them out

00:23:40.100 in the covenant

00:23:41.480 that we make with the future.

00:23:43.080 And we do that,

00:23:44.520 well, unless we're extraordinarily impulsive

00:23:46.320 and aimless in our lives

00:23:47.920 and have really no conception

00:23:49.420 whatsoever of the future

00:23:50.680 and are likely to sacrifice

00:23:52.560 the future for the present,

00:23:53.840 which is what Esau does,

00:23:55.740 then we make sacrifices.

00:23:59.720 And you've got to think,

00:24:00.460 like, the idea of making sacrifices

00:24:02.540 to make the future better

00:24:04.440 is an extraordinarily difficult lesson

00:24:06.160 to learn.

00:24:06.900 It took people,

00:24:07.900 God only knows how long,

00:24:09.540 to learn that.

00:24:11.280 You know, like,

00:24:12.040 we have no idea.

00:24:13.740 It's not something

00:24:14.480 that animals do easily.

00:24:16.400 Chimpanzees don't store 1.00

00:24:17.540 leftover meat.

00:24:18.420 You know,

00:24:19.300 they just,

00:24:19.940 and neither do wolves.

00:24:20.820 They just,

00:24:21.140 a wolf can eat about 30 pounds of meat

00:24:22.840 in one sitting.

00:24:24.440 And that's where the idea

00:24:25.800 of wolfing it down comes from.

00:24:27.400 They're not hiding it,

00:24:28.460 saving it for later.

00:24:29.460 You know,

00:24:29.680 they can't do that.

00:24:31.140 So,

00:24:31.700 they can't sacrifice the present

00:24:33.860 for the future.

00:24:35.140 So this is a big deal

00:24:36.140 that this happens.

00:24:38.400 Now,

00:24:38.820 I want to tell you a little bit

00:24:39.860 about the idea

00:24:40.620 of the pillar.

00:24:41.300 because it's,

00:24:42.680 it's an unbelievably

00:24:43.660 deep idea

00:24:45.840 and

00:24:46.140 it orients us in ways

00:24:48.340 that we still don't,

00:24:50.020 it still orients us

00:24:51.380 in ways that we don't understand.

00:24:53.940 And in fact,

00:24:54.520 it's actually the

00:24:55.340 mechanism by which

00:24:56.900 we're oriented.

00:24:58.180 Or,

00:24:58.680 and if it's lacking,

00:24:59.900 then we become disoriented.

00:25:01.920 And so,

00:25:02.400 I'll show you some pictures

00:25:03.280 and describe them first.

00:25:04.840 Okay,

00:25:05.100 so first of all,

00:25:06.660 there's a walled city.

00:25:08.420 So let,

00:25:08.780 let me tell you

00:25:09.500 that you could think about that

00:25:11.160 as an archetypal

00:25:12.000 human habitation.

00:25:13.400 Maybe it's a reflection

00:25:14.420 of something like

00:25:15.380 a fire

00:25:16.400 in the middle of the

00:25:17.760 plain or the forest

00:25:19.180 or the jungle

00:25:20.560 for that matter,

00:25:21.300 although it's kind of hard

00:25:21.900 to get a fire going there.

00:25:24.000 Imagine a fire

00:25:24.920 ringed around with logs

00:25:26.560 and perhaps ringed around

00:25:27.920 with dwellings,

00:25:29.040 right?

00:25:29.240 So the fire's in the center

00:25:30.440 and the fire defines the center

00:25:32.540 and then

00:25:32.960 as you move away

00:25:34.100 from the fire,

00:25:34.760 you move out

00:25:35.140 into the darkness,

00:25:36.140 right?

00:25:36.380 So the fire is light

00:25:37.900 and communion

00:25:39.400 and safety

00:25:40.580 and as you move away

00:25:41.800 from the fire,

00:25:42.400 you move out

00:25:42.820 into the darkness

00:25:44.180 and what's terrifying

00:25:45.340 out beyond the perimeter.

00:25:46.740 So what's beyond

00:25:47.420 the perimeter

00:25:47.840 is terrifying.

00:25:48.680 You can feel that

00:25:49.500 if you go camping

00:25:50.280 somewhere that's wild.

00:25:51.640 You know,

00:25:51.880 you're pretty damn happy,

00:25:52.960 especially if the wolves

00:25:53.720 are howling,

00:25:54.460 you're pretty damn happy

00:25:55.540 to be sitting by the fire

00:25:57.600 because you can see there,

00:25:59.160 the fire keeps the animals away

00:26:00.740 and,

00:26:01.960 you know,

00:26:02.280 if you do

00:26:03.020 wander into the bush,

00:26:04.480 into the darkness,

00:26:05.400 then you're on alert

00:26:06.240 and,

00:26:07.020 you know,

00:26:07.240 your predator detection

00:26:08.500 systems are on alert

00:26:10.160 and so you could think

00:26:11.380 about the classical

00:26:12.320 human habitation

00:26:13.960 as two places,

00:26:15.940 one where your predator

00:26:17.080 detection system

00:26:18.040 isn't on alert

00:26:19.180 and another where

00:26:20.500 your predator detection

00:26:21.700 system is on alert

00:26:23.460 and you could think

00:26:24.420 about that roughly

00:26:25.740 as the distinction

00:26:26.620 between explored territory

00:26:28.160 and unexplored territory

00:26:30.020 and really the,

00:26:31.520 the founding of a place

00:26:33.460 is precisely,

00:26:34.600 this is a lot of this

00:26:35.540 I got from reading

00:26:36.260 Mircea Eliade,

00:26:37.480 the founding of a place

00:26:38.800 is precisely the definition

00:26:40.380 of a,

00:26:41.380 an explored center

00:26:42.980 set against the

00:26:44.720 unexplored periphery

00:26:46.240 and,

00:26:47.020 you know,

00:26:47.300 what's interesting about that,

00:26:48.540 so you can kind of

00:26:49.200 think about that

00:26:49.960 with regards to

00:26:50.620 the walled city,

00:26:51.400 right?

00:26:51.720 Everything in the wall

00:26:52.840 is cosmos

00:26:54.300 and everything outside

00:26:56.180 the wall is chaos

00:26:57.400 and,

00:26:58.920 you know,

00:26:59.820 but it also extends

00:27:00.740 to the conceptual realm

00:27:02.640 because,

00:27:03.460 imagine that you're

00:27:04.360 the master of a field

00:27:05.760 of study

00:27:06.500 and so,

00:27:07.720 that's an interesting

00:27:08.460 metaphor

00:27:08.860 because a field

00:27:09.600 is a geographical

00:27:10.720 metaphor,

00:27:11.500 right?

00:27:12.120 And,

00:27:12.980 if in the center

00:27:14.100 of the field

00:27:14.780 are those things

00:27:15.500 that everyone

00:27:15.960 knows really well,

00:27:17.500 the axioms

00:27:18.000 that everyone

00:27:18.600 abides by

00:27:20.580 in the field

00:27:21.320 and then as you

00:27:22.280 move towards

00:27:22.840 the fringes

00:27:23.480 you get towards

00:27:24.280 the unknown,

00:27:25.940 towards the frontier

00:27:26.900 of the discipline

00:27:28.100 and as you become

00:27:30.000 expert you move

00:27:30.840 from the center

00:27:31.480 to the frontier

00:27:32.180 and so then

00:27:33.220 you're on the

00:27:33.780 border

00:27:34.800 when you're

00:27:35.880 a scholar,

00:27:37.400 a competent scholar,

00:27:38.260 you're on the border

00:27:39.080 between the unexplored

00:27:40.640 or the explored

00:27:42.100 and unexplored

00:27:43.060 and you're trying

00:27:43.820 to further

00:27:44.300 that border.

00:27:45.080 So even if you're

00:27:45.660 just doing this

00:27:46.280 abstractly,

00:27:47.520 it's the same thing

00:27:48.620 and it's a reflection

00:27:50.320 of the fact

00:27:51.020 that every human

00:27:51.980 environment,

00:27:54.340 concrete or abstract,

00:27:55.740 it makes no difference,

00:27:57.600 recapitulates

00:27:58.540 the cosmos

00:28:00.000 chaos dichotomy

00:28:02.040 or the order

00:28:03.180 chaos dichotomy

00:28:04.340 and that's why

00:28:05.280 in Taoism

00:28:05.860 for example,

00:28:06.880 it's the union

00:28:07.440 of chaos and order

00:28:08.260 that constitutes

00:28:09.020 being itself

00:28:09.900 and that you

00:28:11.120 stand on the

00:28:11.900 border between

00:28:12.720 chaos and order

00:28:13.820 because that's

00:28:14.660 the proper place

00:28:15.380 to be.

00:28:16.100 Too orderly,

00:28:17.140 too much in the

00:28:17.940 explored,

00:28:19.380 you're not learning

00:28:19.940 anything.

00:28:20.880 Too much out there

00:28:21.860 where the predators

00:28:22.600 lurk,

00:28:23.420 then you're frozen

00:28:24.160 with terror

00:28:24.800 and neither

00:28:25.840 of those positions

00:28:26.980 are desirable.

00:28:29.500 So,

00:28:30.380 and that's what,

00:28:31.140 you know,

00:28:31.360 and so you think,

00:28:32.540 and this is a

00:28:33.060 concrete reality

00:28:33.960 obviously as well

00:28:35.240 as a psychological

00:28:35.820 reality,

00:28:36.700 there were reasons

00:28:37.500 for those walls,

00:28:39.300 right,

00:28:39.760 because inside the

00:28:41.160 walls were all

00:28:41.920 the people like us

00:28:43.320 and so that begs

00:28:44.720 the question,

00:28:45.340 what does it mean

00:28:45.940 for people to be

00:28:46.800 like us?

00:28:47.980 And then outside

00:28:48.980 the wall there

00:28:49.600 was all those

00:28:50.260 people because

00:28:51.600 they were the worst

00:28:52.540 forms of predators

00:28:54.060 because people

00:28:54.880 are actually the

00:28:55.600 worst forms of

00:28:56.340 predators who

00:28:58.020 aren't like us

00:28:58.900 and the wall is

00:29:00.320 there to draw

00:29:01.060 a distinction

00:29:01.700 between like us

00:29:03.320 and not like us

00:29:04.320 and so,

00:29:05.600 and that was a

00:29:06.100 matter of life

00:29:06.660 and death.

00:29:07.360 You can tell that

00:29:08.400 because,

00:29:09.180 I mean,

00:29:09.420 look at those

00:29:09.960 walls.

00:29:10.740 They had to build

00:29:11.360 those by hand

00:29:12.220 and,

00:29:12.940 you know,

00:29:13.080 you do see

00:29:13.680 walled cities

00:29:14.420 that have three

00:29:15.360 rings of walls

00:29:16.620 so these people

00:29:18.520 were terrified

00:29:19.160 but not so

00:29:20.320 terrified as the

00:29:21.100 people who built

00:29:22.040 three walls.

00:29:22.840 They were really

00:29:23.360 terrified.

00:29:24.060 And they had

00:29:25.060 their reasons.

00:29:26.940 So,

00:29:27.620 okay,

00:29:28.140 so,

00:29:29.940 now,

00:29:30.880 there's an idea

00:29:32.800 that's,

00:29:34.340 that's

00:29:36.240 reflected in

00:29:37.440 the Jacob's 0.99

00:29:38.060 Ladder story

00:29:38.780 that the center

00:29:40.360 where you put

00:29:42.620 the pillar

00:29:43.060 is also the

00:29:44.040 place where

00:29:44.500 heaven and

00:29:44.960 earth touch

00:29:45.720 and so that's,

00:29:47.520 that's a

00:29:48.360 complicated idea.

00:29:49.420 I think that

00:29:50.160 you can,

00:29:51.260 you know,

00:29:51.540 I'm trying to

00:29:52.260 look at these

00:29:53.120 stories from

00:29:53.560 a psychological

00:29:54.140 perspective

00:29:54.760 and so then

00:29:55.640 you could say

00:29:56.140 that that's

00:29:57.240 a symbolic

00:29:57.780 place where

00:29:58.300 the lowest

00:29:58.820 and the

00:29:59.280 highest

00:29:59.620 come together

00:30:00.520 and so

00:30:01.860 it's a place

00:30:02.760 where

00:30:03.300 earthly being

00:30:05.620 stretches up

00:30:06.600 to the highest

00:30:07.300 possible ethical

00:30:08.300 abstraction

00:30:09.040 and that's the

00:30:10.320 center because

00:30:10.940 one of the

00:30:12.560 things that

00:30:13.040 defines us,

00:30:14.800 say,

00:30:15.220 as opposed to

00:30:15.840 them,

00:30:16.100 is that we're

00:30:16.960 all united

00:30:17.760 within a

00:30:19.140 certain ethic.

00:30:20.960 That's what

00:30:21.560 makes us

00:30:22.000 the same.

00:30:23.640 This is a

00:30:24.200 complicated line

00:30:25.020 of reasoning

00:30:25.500 and,

00:30:26.300 but,

00:30:26.880 I'll go back

00:30:28.600 to it after I

00:30:29.200 show you some

00:30:29.680 more pictures,

00:30:30.360 but,

00:30:30.520 so that's,

00:30:30.980 that's the

00:30:31.380 first idea,

00:30:32.100 is that the

00:30:32.500 center is the

00:30:33.820 place where

00:30:34.480 the lowest

00:30:35.300 and the

00:30:35.740 highest touch

00:30:36.500 simultaneously

00:30:37.320 and so you

00:30:38.420 could say that

00:30:38.960 in some sense

00:30:39.680 it specifies the

00:30:40.880 aim of a group

00:30:41.700 of people.

00:30:42.460 That's another

00:30:42.960 way.

00:30:43.420 You know,

00:30:43.940 if you get

00:30:44.600 together with

00:30:45.260 people to make

00:30:45.860 a group,

00:30:46.320 even at work

00:30:47.640 you group

00:30:48.220 yourself around

00:30:48.940 a project

00:30:49.620 and that unites

00:30:51.100 you and it

00:30:51.640 unites you

00:30:52.100 because you

00:30:52.420 all have the

00:30:52.900 same aim.

00:30:53.400 You're all

00:30:53.620 pointing to

00:30:54.240 the same

00:30:54.740 thing and

00:30:55.800 that makes

00:30:56.180 you the

00:30:56.500 same in

00:30:56.960 some ways

00:30:57.420 because if

00:30:58.340 you're after

00:30:58.820 the same

00:30:59.220 thing I

00:30:59.660 am,

00:31:00.300 then the

00:31:00.640 same things

00:31:01.100 are going

00:31:01.300 to be

00:31:01.460 important to

00:31:02.040 you that

00:31:02.280 are important

00:31:02.700 to me

00:31:03.100 and the

00:31:03.740 same things

00:31:04.160 are going

00:31:04.380 to be

00:31:04.580 negative to

00:31:05.160 you that

00:31:05.380 are negative

00:31:05.760 to me

00:31:06.140 because our

00:31:06.460 emotions work

00:31:07.140 out that

00:31:07.540 way and

00:31:08.120 that means I

00:31:08.640 can instantly

00:31:09.220 predict you.

00:31:10.520 I know how

00:31:10.920 you're going

00:31:11.280 to behave and

00:31:12.280 so our aim,

00:31:13.280 which is basically

00:31:13.920 our ethical

00:31:14.580 aim,

00:31:14.940 it's because

00:31:15.360 we're aiming

00:31:15.680 at something

00:31:16.120 better,

00:31:17.220 at least in

00:31:18.260 principle,

00:31:18.980 we're aiming

00:31:19.300 at something

00:31:19.720 better,

00:31:20.460 it's our

00:31:20.700 ethical aim

00:31:21.440 that unites

00:31:21.980 our perceptions

00:31:22.640 and that's

00:31:23.260 what aligns

00:31:23.800 our emotions

00:31:24.380 and so that

00:31:25.440 sort of begs

00:31:26.040 the question

00:31:26.540 if you're

00:31:26.900 going to

00:31:27.100 build a

00:31:27.400 community

00:31:27.860 around what

00:31:29.580 aim should

00:31:30.280 the community

00:31:30.920 congregate?

00:31:32.600 Okay,

00:31:32.880 so the idea

00:31:33.720 here is that

00:31:34.360 the center

00:31:35.160 of the community

00:31:35.760 is the pillar

00:31:36.380 that unites

00:31:36.920 heaven and

00:31:37.360 earth,

00:31:37.660 so it unites

00:31:38.140 the lowest

00:31:38.520 with the highest.

00:31:39.580 So there's

00:31:40.000 some intimation

00:31:41.060 of the idea

00:31:41.720 that it's

00:31:42.180 the highest

00:31:43.200 that unites

00:31:44.380 the community.

00:31:46.080 Okay,

00:31:46.420 and so keep

00:31:47.360 that in mind

00:31:47.960 and that's

00:31:49.440 a very old

00:31:50.000 idea as well,

00:31:51.100 that's the idea

00:31:51.820 of the axis

00:31:52.380 mundi which

00:31:53.080 is the center

00:31:53.820 pole that

00:31:54.560 unites heaven

00:31:55.180 and earth.

00:31:55.660 It's an

00:31:56.020 unbelievably old

00:31:56.880 idea,

00:31:57.660 tens of

00:31:58.180 thousands of

00:31:58.740 years old.

00:31:59.320 It might even

00:31:59.920 stretch back

00:32:00.720 to whatever

00:32:01.960 our archaic

00:32:02.920 memories,

00:32:04.240 quasi-memories,

00:32:05.920 I don't know

00:32:06.320 what you would

00:32:06.900 describe them,

00:32:07.560 archetypal

00:32:08.080 memories of

00:32:09.000 our excessively

00:32:11.220 old ancestry

00:32:12.080 and trees

00:32:12.700 when the

00:32:13.140 tree itself

00:32:13.880 was in fact

00:32:15.020 the center

00:32:15.600 of the world

00:32:16.340 and that it

00:32:17.120 was ringed

00:32:17.880 by snakes

00:32:18.540 and chaos.

00:32:19.880 And so,

00:32:21.180 well,

00:32:21.460 we have no

00:32:21.840 idea how old

00:32:22.520 these ideas

00:32:23.040 are,

00:32:23.360 but they're

00:32:23.620 very,

00:32:24.220 very old

00:32:24.700 and evolution

00:32:25.400 is a

00:32:26.240 conservative

00:32:26.820 business.

00:32:27.900 Once it

00:32:28.240 builds a

00:32:28.840 gadget,

00:32:30.200 then it

00:32:31.360 builds new

00:32:31.820 things on

00:32:32.300 top of that

00:32:32.780 gadget.

00:32:33.140 It's like a

00:32:33.500 medieval town,

00:32:34.420 right?

00:32:34.600 The center

00:32:35.020 of the town

00:32:35.480 is really

00:32:35.860 old and

00:32:36.380 newer areas

00:32:39.420 of the town

00:32:39.840 get built

00:32:40.300 around it,

00:32:40.720 but the

00:32:41.020 center is

00:32:41.520 still really

00:32:42.020 old and

00:32:42.520 that's what

00:32:43.260 we're like.

00:32:44.100 You know,

00:32:45.080 our platforms,

00:32:46.500 like our

00:32:47.520 basic

00:32:48.120 physiological

00:32:48.560 structure,

00:32:49.660 this skeletal

00:32:51.740 body is

00:32:53.100 some tens of

00:32:54.120 millions of

00:32:54.600 years old or

00:32:55.140 older than

00:32:55.740 that.

00:32:56.220 If you think

00:32:56.780 about vertebrates,

00:32:57.640 it's much

00:32:58.020 older than

00:32:58.440 that and

00:32:59.060 that's all

00:32:59.440 conserved.

00:33:01.080 So,

00:33:01.600 everything's built

00:33:03.480 on top of

00:33:04.040 everything else.

00:33:05.160 All right,

00:33:05.460 so there's a

00:33:06.500 kind of a

00:33:07.000 classic town

00:33:07.900 and there's

00:33:09.780 the idea.

00:33:10.380 I showed

00:33:10.680 you this,

00:33:11.040 this Scandinavian

00:33:11.860 world tree,

00:33:12.680 same idea,

00:33:13.300 it unites

00:33:13.680 heaven and

00:33:14.100 earth and

00:33:14.440 around the

00:33:15.280 roots of

00:33:15.760 that tree

00:33:16.220 are snakes

00:33:16.900 that eat

00:33:17.500 this tree

00:33:18.120 constantly,

00:33:18.900 so that's

00:33:19.280 the idea

00:33:19.720 that there's

00:33:21.240 stability but

00:33:21.980 there's constant

00:33:22.580 transformation

00:33:23.380 around that

00:33:24.580 stability and

00:33:26.180 at the same

00:33:26.920 time the

00:33:27.280 snakes are

00:33:27.680 gnawing in

00:33:27.980 the roots,

00:33:28.460 there's streams

00:33:29.620 that are

00:33:29.980 nourishing it.

00:33:31.260 So it's

00:33:31.580 sort of an

00:33:33.200 echo of the

00:33:33.760 idea that life

00:33:34.880 depends on death

00:33:35.740 and renewal

00:33:36.240 constantly because

00:33:37.200 your cells are

00:33:38.420 dying and

00:33:39.020 being renewed

00:33:39.920 constantly,

00:33:40.780 right?

00:33:41.040 If they are

00:33:41.580 just proliferating

00:33:43.000 then you have

00:33:43.460 cancer.

00:33:44.040 If they're just

00:33:44.700 dying then you 0.71

00:33:45.560 die. 1.00

00:33:46.380 You have to get

00:33:47.120 the balance

00:33:47.600 between death

00:33:48.300 and life

00:33:48.760 exactly right

00:33:49.600 so that you

00:33:50.080 can actually

00:33:50.540 live which is

00:33:51.600 also a very

00:33:52.160 strange thing.

00:33:53.840 So,

00:33:54.400 and that tree

00:33:55.080 is something

00:33:55.580 that reaches

00:33:56.760 from the

00:33:57.220 bottom layers

00:33:58.020 of being,

00:33:58.600 maybe the

00:33:58.960 microcosm

00:33:59.560 all the way

00:33:59.960 to the

00:34:00.220 macrocosm.

00:34:01.100 That's the

00:34:01.720 idea anyways.

00:34:03.220 So,

00:34:04.280 then there's,

00:34:05.040 okay,

00:34:05.280 so there's,

00:34:05.780 there's

00:34:06.620 Jacob and

00:34:09.200 his pillar.

00:34:10.300 He's got

00:34:10.580 this idea

00:34:11.060 that you

00:34:11.380 can mark

00:34:11.840 the center

00:34:12.360 with this

00:34:12.900 stone.

00:34:13.420 Like,

00:34:13.680 it sort

00:34:14.040 of symbolizes

00:34:14.740 what he

00:34:15.040 was laying

00:34:15.400 on when he

00:34:15.820 dreamt but

00:34:16.200 now he's

00:34:16.480 got this

00:34:16.800 idea.

00:34:17.160 You put

00:34:17.440 something

00:34:17.760 erect and

00:34:19.060 it marks

00:34:19.500 the center

00:34:20.060 and it

00:34:20.780 symbolizes

00:34:21.400 his vision

00:34:22.680 of the

00:34:23.160 highest good,

00:34:24.060 something like

00:34:24.560 that.

00:34:25.640 And the

00:34:26.020 promise that's

00:34:26.640 been made

00:34:27.020 to him.

00:34:27.700 And then

00:34:27.960 this is an

00:34:28.560 Egyptian

00:34:29.040 obelisk,

00:34:31.040 pyramid on

00:34:31.720 top of it,

00:34:32.860 that's in

00:34:33.760 Paris.

00:34:34.240 It was taken

00:34:34.760 from Luxor

00:34:35.500 and it

00:34:35.720 put in

00:34:36.000 Paris.

00:34:36.540 And so

00:34:36.780 that's a

00:34:37.920 much more

00:34:39.020 sophisticated

00:34:40.280 instance of

00:34:43.660 the same

00:34:44.120 idea.

00:34:45.200 Okay,

00:34:45.460 and there

00:34:46.000 was a

00:34:46.240 Stone Age

00:34:46.680 cultures

00:34:47.120 across

00:34:47.660 Eurasia

00:34:48.440 that put

00:34:49.420 up these

00:34:49.740 huge obelisks

00:34:50.620 everywhere,

00:34:51.280 these huge,

00:34:51.800 like the

00:34:52.140 Stonehenge is a

00:34:52.920 good example

00:34:53.400 of that,

00:34:53.800 although it's

00:34:54.500 very sophisticated.

00:34:55.960 And there

00:34:56.220 were also

00:34:56.560 markers of

00:34:57.320 places.

00:34:58.240 We don't know

00:34:58.760 exactly what

00:34:59.300 their function

00:34:59.720 is,

00:35:00.000 but they're

00:35:00.260 very much

00:35:01.200 akin to

00:35:01.880 this,

00:35:02.460 some

00:35:02.720 permanent

00:35:03.240 marker

00:35:03.880 of

00:35:04.120 place.

00:35:06.420 There's a

00:35:06.940 good one,

00:35:07.440 so that's

00:35:08.260 in St.

00:35:08.740 Peter's,

00:35:09.180 and I

00:35:09.700 really like

00:35:10.160 this one

00:35:10.540 because you

00:35:10.980 can see

00:35:11.480 the echoes

00:35:13.300 of Jacob's

00:35:14.680 vision for

00:35:16.900 the establishment

00:35:17.580 of a territory

00:35:18.300 there,

00:35:18.660 right?

00:35:18.840 You've got

00:35:19.160 the obelisk

00:35:19.740 in the middle,

00:35:20.700 and then you've

00:35:21.380 got the

00:35:21.720 directions

00:35:22.260 radiating from

00:35:23.360 the center,

00:35:24.500 and of course

00:35:25.220 St.

00:35:25.940 Peter's,

00:35:26.280 this is the

00:35:26.780 St.

00:35:27.160 Peter's

00:35:27.560 Basilica in

00:35:28.660 Rome,

00:35:28.880 which is

00:35:29.240 an absolutely

00:35:30.100 unbelievable

00:35:31.000 place.

00:35:31.600 It's just

00:35:32.000 jaw-dropping.

00:35:34.040 And so

00:35:35.140 there's the

00:35:35.580 cathedral at

00:35:36.300 the back of

00:35:36.780 it,

00:35:36.920 and then there's

00:35:37.360 this circle

00:35:38.360 of pillars

00:35:38.980 that surrounds

00:35:39.780 it.

00:35:40.220 You can just

00:35:40.660 see them a

00:35:41.120 little bit

00:35:41.460 on the

00:35:43.140 middle left

00:35:43.940 there.

00:35:44.440 That goes

00:35:45.040 all the way

00:35:45.460 around that

00:35:46.000 entire enclosure,

00:35:47.720 and a very

00:35:49.160 large number

00:35:49.680 of people can

00:35:50.260 gather there.

00:35:51.780 And then,

00:35:52.540 so that pillar

00:35:53.260 marks the

00:35:54.180 center,

00:35:54.640 and that would

00:35:54.960 be the center

00:35:55.480 of Catholicism

00:35:56.460 essentially.

00:35:57.080 That's what

00:35:57.400 that represents,

00:35:58.340 right?

00:35:58.480 The symbolic

00:35:59.580 center of

00:36:00.200 Catholicism.

00:36:01.640 Although you

00:36:02.080 could make the

00:36:02.560 case that the

00:36:03.080 cathedral is the

00:36:03.800 center.

00:36:04.120 It doesn't

00:36:04.360 really matter.

00:36:04.940 They're very

00:36:05.320 close together,

00:36:06.100 and it's half a

00:36:07.900 dozen of one

00:36:08.420 and six of the

00:36:09.060 other.

00:36:10.340 And then,

00:36:10.800 here's another

00:36:11.480 representation of

00:36:12.840 the same idea,

00:36:13.680 right?

00:36:13.940 It's that this

00:36:14.820 is why people

00:36:15.340 don't like the

00:36:15.940 flag to be

00:36:16.600 burned, 0.95

00:36:17.540 you know, 0.52

00:36:17.840 because conservative

00:36:18.600 people see the

00:36:19.460 flag as the

00:36:20.860 sacred thing that

00:36:21.760 binds people

00:36:22.540 together,

00:36:23.580 and so they're

00:36:24.380 not happy when

00:36:25.280 that sacred thing

00:36:26.320 is destroyed,

00:36:27.580 even if it's

00:36:28.220 destroyed in the

00:36:28.880 name of protest,

00:36:29.760 whereas the

00:36:30.120 people who burn

00:36:30.740 flags think,

00:36:31.460 well, there are

00:36:31.820 times to

00:36:32.880 dramatize the

00:36:33.880 idea that the

00:36:34.660 center has been

00:36:35.440 corrupt, and you 0.96

00:36:36.900 can demonstrate 0.97

00:36:37.460 that by putting it

00:36:39.180 to the torch, you

00:36:40.460 know, as a

00:36:40.860 representation that

00:36:41.880 that the corrupt

00:36:44.340 center now has to 0.99

00:36:45.780 be burned and 0.93

00:36:47.740 transformed.

00:36:49.260 And the thing is,

00:36:50.080 they're both right,

00:36:50.960 they're both right

00:36:51.740 all the time,

00:36:52.400 because the center

00:36:53.460 is absolutely

00:36:54.100 necessary and is

00:36:55.260 sacred and is

00:36:56.100 almost always also

00:36:57.820 corrupt and in need

00:36:59.200 of reparation.

00:37:00.400 That's also an

00:37:01.200 archetypal idea.

00:37:02.800 And that's a useful

00:37:03.760 thing to know,

00:37:04.420 because, you know,

00:37:05.040 it's easy for young

00:37:06.400 people in particular

00:37:07.280 to think that,

00:37:08.140 well, the world's

00:37:09.620 gone to hell in a 0.98

00:37:10.320 handbasket, and it's 0.94

00:37:11.900 the fault of the

00:37:12.900 last generation,

00:37:13.820 they've left us this

00:37:14.580 terrible mess, and,

00:37:15.880 you know, we're

00:37:16.360 feeling pretty betrayed

00:37:17.340 about that, and now

00:37:18.200 we have to clean it

00:37:19.020 up.

00:37:19.240 It's like, yeah,

00:37:19.840 yeah, people have

00:37:20.400 been thinking that

00:37:21.040 for like 35,000

00:37:22.600 years.

00:37:23.320 It's not new.

00:37:24.800 And the reason it's

00:37:25.600 not new is because

00:37:26.240 it's always true.

00:37:27.580 You know, what you're

00:37:28.200 handed is a sacred

00:37:30.360 center with flaws.

00:37:31.960 Always, always.

00:37:33.320 And it's partly

00:37:33.820 because it's the

00:37:34.440 creation of the dead,

00:37:36.240 right?

00:37:36.460 And the dead can't

00:37:37.620 see, and they can't

00:37:38.420 communicate, and so

00:37:39.260 they're not in touch

00:37:40.020 with the present.

00:37:41.340 And so what they've

00:37:42.160 bequeathed to you,

00:37:43.420 apart from the fact

00:37:44.400 that it might actually

00:37:45.180 be corrupt, which is

00:37:46.260 a slightly different

00:37:46.920 thing, is at least

00:37:48.220 blind and dead. 0.54

00:37:49.720 And so what the hell 0.87

00:37:50.540 can you expect from

00:37:51.440 something that's blind

00:37:52.280 and dead?

00:37:53.380 You know, you're lucky

00:37:53.940 if it just doesn't

00:37:54.540 stomp you out of 0.98

00:37:55.420 existence. 0.94

00:37:56.720 So that's a lovely

00:37:58.380 photograph, obviously,

00:37:59.660 and that's the

00:38:00.460 establishment of a

00:38:01.380 new center.

00:38:03.000 Then, the center can

00:38:05.220 be a cathedral, too,

00:38:06.320 and often is, of

00:38:07.360 course, in classic

00:38:09.200 towns, European

00:38:11.280 towns in particular,

00:38:12.900 although it's not

00:38:14.360 only European towns

00:38:15.180 that are like this.

00:38:16.020 There's a center

00:38:17.060 that's made out of

00:38:18.140 stone, so that would

00:38:19.020 be the cathedral, and

00:38:20.180 it's got the highest

00:38:21.020 tower, and on top of

00:38:22.240 the tower there's often

00:38:23.200 a cross, and that's

00:38:24.580 the symbolic center.

00:38:26.100 So people are drawn

00:38:27.840 together around whatever

00:38:29.180 the cross represents.

00:38:31.080 Now, the cross

00:38:31.760 obviously represents a

00:38:33.160 center, because it's

00:38:34.320 an X, right?

00:38:35.120 X marks the spot, so

00:38:36.820 the center of the

00:38:37.520 cross is the center,

00:38:38.800 and then the

00:38:39.540 cathedral's often in

00:38:40.620 a cross shape, which

00:38:41.960 also marks the

00:38:42.880 center, and then in

00:38:44.500 the cathedral there's

00:38:45.420 a dome often, and

00:38:46.620 that's the sky, and

00:38:48.260 that's that ladder

00:38:50.160 that reaches from

00:38:51.100 earth to heaven, so

00:38:52.140 it's a recapitulation

00:38:53.240 of the same idea.

00:38:55.220 So, and people are

00:38:57.180 drawn to that center,

00:38:59.740 and the center is the

00:39:00.880 symbol of what unites

00:39:01.920 them, and what unites

00:39:02.920 them is the faith that

00:39:05.620 the cathedral is the

00:39:07.080 embodiment of, and you

00:39:09.140 think, well, what does

00:39:09.900 the faith mean?

00:39:10.820 And again, we're

00:39:11.500 approaching this

00:39:12.180 psychologically, and what

00:39:13.220 it means is that everyone

00:39:15.620 who's a member of that

00:39:16.880 group accepts the

00:39:18.120 transcendent ideal of the

00:39:19.640 group.

00:39:20.800 Now, the thing is, if

00:39:21.620 you're the member of a

00:39:22.420 group, you accept the

00:39:23.360 transcendent ideal of the

00:39:24.580 group.

00:39:25.040 That's what it means to

00:39:26.300 be a member of a group.

00:39:27.840 So, if you're in a work

00:39:28.780 team, and you're all

00:39:29.420 working on a project, what

00:39:30.600 you've essentially done, is

00:39:32.120 decided that you're going

00:39:33.180 to make the goal

00:39:34.640 unquestionable, right?

00:39:36.860 I mean, you might argue

00:39:37.660 about the details, but if

00:39:38.740 you're tasked with

00:39:39.640 something, you know, here's

00:39:40.800 a job for you, ten

00:39:41.800 people, organize yourself

00:39:43.060 around the job, you can

00:39:44.660 argue about how you're

00:39:45.820 going to do the job, but

00:39:47.020 you can't argue about the

00:39:48.240 job, then the group falls

00:39:49.920 apart.

00:39:50.820 And so, there's an act of

00:39:52.480 faith in some sense.

00:39:54.900 The reason that the act of

00:39:56.300 faith is necessary is

00:39:57.480 because it's very, very

00:39:58.480 difficult to specify

00:39:59.880 without error what that

00:40:01.420 central aim should be,

00:40:03.140 given that there's any

00:40:03.940 number of aims, right?

00:40:05.200 And it's a very, very

00:40:06.200 difficult thing to figure

00:40:07.260 out, and this is

00:40:07.980 something we're going to

00:40:08.520 do a little bit tonight,

00:40:09.340 is, like, what should

00:40:11.100 the aim be around which

00:40:12.980 a group would congregate?

00:40:15.360 You know, so, especially

00:40:16.960 if it's a large group, and

00:40:18.700 it's a large group that

00:40:19.560 has to stay together

00:40:20.580 across very large swaths

00:40:22.280 of time, and the group

00:40:23.940 is incredibly diverse, you

00:40:26.220 know, what possible kind

00:40:27.540 of ideal could unite a

00:40:29.580 large group of diverse

00:40:30.880 people across a very

00:40:32.000 large stretch of time?

00:40:33.260 That's a really, really

00:40:34.580 hard question, and I

00:40:35.680 think part of the way

00:40:36.920 that question has been

00:40:37.880 answered is, it's been

00:40:39.100 answered symbolically, and

00:40:40.440 in images, because it's

00:40:41.700 so damn complicated that

00:40:43.020 it's almost impossible to 0.82

00:40:44.840 articulate.

00:40:46.460 So, but obviously, you

00:40:47.980 need to have a center

00:40:49.080 around which everyone can

00:40:50.460 unite, because if you

00:40:51.380 don't, then everyone's at

00:40:53.000 odds with one another.

00:40:54.060 Like, if I don't know

00:40:54.640 what you're up to, and

00:40:55.600 you don't know what he's

00:40:56.360 up to, we have no, we're

00:40:57.740 just strangers, and we

00:40:59.240 don't know that our

00:41:00.040 ethics match at all, then

00:41:02.120 the probability that we're

00:41:03.300 going to be able to exist

00:41:04.740 harmoniously decreases

00:41:06.180 rapidly to zero, and

00:41:08.200 that's obviously just no

00:41:09.620 good.

00:41:10.100 That's a state of total

00:41:11.200 chaos.

00:41:11.980 So we can't have that.

00:41:13.360 It's not possible to

00:41:15.420 exist without a central

00:41:17.980 ideal.

00:41:18.520 It's not possible.

00:41:19.760 And it's deeper than

00:41:20.980 that.

00:41:21.260 It's deeper than that,

00:41:22.200 partly because it's, I'll

00:41:27.180 try to get this right.

00:41:28.100 This is the sort of thing

00:41:28.920 that I was arguing with

00:41:29.860 Sam Harris about.

00:41:32.640 You see, your category

00:41:34.740 system is a product of

00:41:36.560 your aims.

00:41:38.180 That's the thing.

00:41:39.460 Like, if you have a set of

00:41:40.740 facts at hand, the facts

00:41:42.320 don't tell you how to

00:41:43.420 categorize the facts. 0.97

00:41:44.660 Because there's too damn

00:41:45.720 many facts.

00:41:46.980 There's a trillion facts.

00:41:48.200 And there's no way,

00:41:50.880 without imposing some

00:41:52.260 a-priority order on them,

00:41:54.060 of determining how it is

00:41:55.200 that you should order

00:41:55.900 them.

00:41:56.140 So how do you order

00:41:56.860 them?

00:41:57.360 Well, that's easy.

00:41:58.420 You decide what you're

00:41:59.780 aiming at.

00:42:01.420 Now, how do you do that?

00:42:02.780 Well, I'm not answering

00:42:03.860 that question at the

00:42:04.740 moment.

00:42:05.140 I'm just saying that in

00:42:06.540 order to organize those

00:42:07.860 facts, you need an aim.

00:42:09.720 And then the aim

00:42:10.720 instantly organizes the

00:42:12.040 facts into those things

00:42:13.120 relevant to the aim,

00:42:14.500 tools, let's say,

00:42:15.760 those things that get in

00:42:16.880 the way, and a very

00:42:18.260 large number of things

00:42:19.420 that you don't have to

00:42:20.300 pay attention to at all.

00:42:22.040 Right?

00:42:22.360 It excludes, like, if

00:42:24.440 you're working on an

00:42:25.160 engineering problem, you

00:42:26.480 don't have to worry about

00:42:28.040 practicing medicine in

00:42:32.080 your neighborhood.

00:42:33.920 You don't, there's a

00:42:34.580 bunch of, like, if

00:42:35.380 you're focusing on a

00:42:36.260 particular, what would

00:42:40.660 you say?

00:42:41.020 Any, any job, any set of

00:42:47.580 skills implies that you're

00:42:49.100 good at a small set of

00:42:50.220 things and then not good

00:42:51.220 at an incredibly large

00:42:52.600 number of other skills.

00:42:54.340 It simplifies things, and

00:42:55.940 so you can use your aim as

00:42:58.000 the basis of a category

00:42:59.500 structure.

00:43:00.680 And so you also have to

00:43:02.320 keep that in mind, because

00:43:03.200 what it means is, as far as

00:43:04.720 I can tell, what it means is

00:43:06.440 that your category system

00:43:09.300 itself, which is what

00:43:10.620 structures your

00:43:11.200 perceptions, is actually

00:43:12.180 dependent on the ethics of

00:43:13.660 your aim.

00:43:14.320 It's directly, it's a moral

00:43:16.340 thing.

00:43:17.100 It's directly dependent on

00:43:18.740 your aim.

00:43:19.720 And that's a stunning idea

00:43:21.660 if it happens to be true.

00:43:22.900 It's not how people think

00:43:24.320 about thinking.

00:43:25.960 We don't think that way.

00:43:27.240 Like, we think that we

00:43:28.200 think deterministically,

00:43:29.420 let's say, or that we

00:43:31.160 think empirically, or that

00:43:32.300 we think rationally.

00:43:33.620 And none of that appears to

00:43:34.780 be the case.

00:43:35.340 What we do is we posit a

00:43:36.760 valid aim, and then we

00:43:38.300 organize the world around

00:43:39.280 the aim.

00:43:40.080 And there's plenty of

00:43:40.940 evidence from that in

00:43:42.480 psychological studies of

00:43:44.220 perception, right?

00:43:45.260 That does look like how

00:43:46.920 the perceptual systems

00:43:49.040 work.

00:43:49.680 Mostly they ignore, because

00:43:51.440 the world's too

00:43:51.920 complicated.

00:43:52.920 They focus on a small

00:43:53.960 set of phenomena deemed

00:43:56.380 relevant to whatever the

00:43:57.780 aim is.

00:43:58.640 And then, of course, the

00:43:59.420 aim is problematic.

00:44:00.820 Again, it's complex, because

00:44:02.180 the aim I have has to be an

00:44:04.120 aim that some of you share,

00:44:06.740 or at least don't object to,

00:44:08.520 because otherwise I'm not

00:44:09.640 going to get anywhere with 0.99

00:44:10.440 my damn aim. 0.99

00:44:11.300 It has to actually be 0.99

00:44:12.560 implementable in the world.

00:44:14.180 It has to be sustainable

00:44:15.340 across at least some amount

00:44:17.080 of time.

00:44:18.180 It can't kill me.

00:44:19.440 Like, it's really hedged in,

00:44:21.360 this aim.

00:44:22.000 It isn't any old thing.

00:44:24.180 There's hardly any things that

00:44:25.600 it can be.

00:44:27.040 So, you know, Jacob's aim,

00:44:28.840 for example, in undermining

00:44:32.140 Esau, almost gets him killed.

00:44:34.600 And you can understand why.

00:44:35.780 That's the other thing.

00:44:36.660 You think, well, that was a

00:44:38.100 nasty bit of work.

00:44:39.260 You can understand Esau's

00:44:40.500 rage.

00:44:41.060 It's, even though we're

00:44:41.980 separated from the people in

00:44:43.740 these stories by, what,

00:44:45.380 4,000 years, 3,000 years,

00:44:47.340 something like that, you know

00:44:48.860 immediately why everyone feels

00:44:51.980 the way they do, at least once

00:44:53.340 you understand the context of

00:44:54.800 the story.

00:44:55.560 None of that's mysterious in

00:44:57.180 the least.

00:44:57.660 So, so there's the church, and

00:45:01.920 the church is underneath the

00:45:03.120 cross, right?

00:45:05.380 And so that's St. Peter's

00:45:06.460 Basilica.

00:45:07.520 And so there's the cross on the

00:45:09.420 globe, on top of the

00:45:10.920 basilica, and then there's the

00:45:12.720 cross on the obelisk as well.

00:45:17.220 And so, what that means is

00:45:19.260 that, and this is where things

00:45:20.820 get insanely complicated, is

00:45:23.580 that the center is defined by

00:45:26.200 whatever the cross represents.

00:45:28.160 Now, the cross represents a

00:45:30.460 crossing point geographically.

00:45:32.020 It's certainly that.

00:45:33.440 The cross probably represents

00:45:34.880 the body to some degree.

00:45:36.700 But then the cross also

00:45:37.820 represents the place of

00:45:39.220 suffering, obviously.

00:45:41.380 And more importantly, it

00:45:42.820 represents the place of

00:45:43.940 voluntary suffering

00:45:45.280 transcended.

00:45:46.900 I'm speaking psychologically,

00:45:48.700 right?

00:45:48.980 Not theologically.

00:45:50.580 That's what it represents.

00:45:52.400 And so you might say, so

00:45:53.560 here's the idea behind putting

00:45:56.140 down the obelisk with the

00:45:57.420 cross and saying that that's

00:45:58.760 the center.

00:46:00.000 So that's the thing that

00:46:00.940 everyone's aiming at.

00:46:02.000 And so the idea would be,

00:46:03.700 well, if you're going to be a

00:46:04.860 member of the group defined by

00:46:06.500 this obelisk, then what you do

00:46:08.080 is accept your position at the

00:46:11.060 center of suffering voluntarily

00:46:12.560 and therefore transcend it.

00:46:15.100 That's the idea.

00:46:16.520 And that is one hell of an idea.

00:46:18.840 It really is, man.

00:46:19.940 That is a killer idea.

00:46:21.740 Because it's actually a signal,

00:46:23.760 it's a really clear signal of

00:46:25.340 psychological health.

00:46:27.060 You know, because one of the

00:46:27.860 things you do if you're a

00:46:28.820 clinical psychologist and

00:46:29.980 someone is paralyzed by fear

00:46:31.780 is what you do is you break

00:46:33.800 their fears down into

00:46:35.000 relatively manageable bits.

00:46:37.320 And then you have them

00:46:38.380 voluntarily confront their fears.

00:46:41.180 And it might also be things that

00:46:42.600 they're disgusted by, say, if

00:46:44.140 they have obsessive compulsive

00:46:45.260 disorder.

00:46:45.900 But it produces very strong

00:46:47.340 negative emotion, whatever it is.

00:46:48.980 And then you have them

00:46:50.100 voluntarily confront whatever it

00:46:51.980 is that produces that

00:46:52.960 overwhelming negative emotion.

00:46:55.240 And that makes them stronger.

00:46:57.160 That's what happens.

00:46:58.380 It doesn't make them less afraid.

00:47:01.480 It makes them more courageous

00:47:03.080 and stronger.

00:47:03.820 And that is not the same thing.

00:47:05.100 It's seriously not.

00:47:06.020 It doesn't decrease the fear.

00:47:07.880 It increases the courage.

00:47:10.360 And so, that's a mind-boggling

00:47:12.440 idea.

00:47:13.500 And it's deeper.

00:47:14.600 You know, one of the things

00:47:15.640 that's really interesting about

00:47:16.760 these archetypal ideas is that

00:47:18.300 maybe it's partly because of the

00:47:20.000 hyperlinked nature of the Bible.

00:47:21.580 That's part of it.

00:47:22.380 But it's not the whole thing.

00:47:23.840 Is that no matter how deep you

00:47:25.080 dig into them, you'll never get

00:47:26.820 to the bottom.

00:47:27.820 You know, you hit a bottom, you

00:47:29.020 think, God, that's so

00:47:30.060 unbelievably profound.

00:47:31.800 And then if you excavate a

00:47:32.900 little underneath that, you

00:47:33.820 find something else that's even

00:47:35.000 more profound.

00:47:35.860 And you think, wow, that's got

00:47:37.100 to be the bottom.

00:47:37.880 And then you dig under that, it's

00:47:39.260 like there's no bottom.

00:47:40.760 You can just keep digging down.

00:47:42.380 Well, as far as I can tell, you

00:47:43.580 can keep digging down layer after

00:47:45.180 layer.

00:47:45.520 And we'll talk a little bit

00:47:47.080 about more, a little more about

00:47:48.520 what the cross signifies as the

00:47:51.380 center.

00:47:52.440 Because you see, what people

00:47:53.460 were trying to figure out is

00:47:55.140 what is it that we need to

00:47:57.000 unite under, right?

00:47:58.560 What's the proper thing to

00:47:59.980 unite under?

00:48:00.740 I can give you another example.

00:48:02.100 So in the Mesopotamian societies,

00:48:05.060 the emperor, you know, who was

00:48:08.400 more or less an absolute monarch,

00:48:10.860 he lived inside what was

00:48:12.800 essentially a walled city.

00:48:14.700 And the god of the Mesopotamians

00:48:17.240 was Marduk.

00:48:18.520 And Marduk was the figure who had

00:48:21.220 eyes all the way around his head

00:48:22.360 and he spoke magic words.

00:48:23.520 So he was very attentive and very

00:48:24.880 articulate.

00:48:26.020 And it was Marduk who went out and

00:48:28.040 confronted the goddess of chaos,

00:48:30.060 the dragon of chaos, and cut her 1.00

00:48:31.820 into pieces and made up the world.

00:48:33.700 Okay, so you can kind of

00:48:34.880 understand what that means.

00:48:36.040 So Marduk goes beyond the frontier

00:48:38.680 into the place of predatory chaos

00:48:42.000 and encounters the thing that's

00:48:44.420 terrifying and then makes

00:48:46.100 something productive out of it.

00:48:47.860 So it's a hero myth.

00:48:49.440 And Marduk is elected to the

00:48:51.400 position of preeminent god by all

00:48:53.320 the other Mesopotamian gods because

00:48:55.120 he manages that.

00:48:56.400 So the Marduk idea emerges up the

00:48:59.020 holy dominance hierarchy and hits the 0.85

00:49:02.960 pinnacle.

00:49:03.740 And God only knows how long that took.

00:49:05.960 It would be the amalgamation of many 0.99

00:49:07.860 tribes and then the distillation of

00:49:14.400 all the tribal myths to produce this

00:49:16.580 emergent story of what constitutes top

00:49:19.320 god.

00:49:20.180 And then the job of the emperor was to

00:49:21.740 act out Marduk.

00:49:23.380 That's what gave him sovereignty.

00:49:24.880 So the reason that he was the center

00:49:26.980 around which people organized

00:49:28.720 themselves wasn't because he was,

00:49:30.860 when he was being a proper emperor,

00:49:32.240 it wasn't because there was something

00:49:33.120 super special about him.

00:49:34.780 Like the power didn't exactly reside

00:49:36.860 in him, which is a really useful thing

00:49:39.100 to separate, right?

00:49:40.000 You want the power, which is why it's

00:49:41.720 kind of nice to have a symbolic

00:49:43.960 monarch.

00:49:45.000 You get the symbolic power separated

00:49:47.220 from the personality power, right?

00:49:48.980 Because otherwise they get conflated.

00:49:50.620 That's what happened in Rome.

00:49:52.180 It's a very, and you can see it

00:49:53.860 tending to happen now and then in the

00:49:55.580 U.S., like with the Kennedy 0.93

00:49:56.740 dynasties and that sort of thing.

00:49:58.760 So the idea was the emperor had

00:50:01.400 sovereignty as long as he was acting

00:50:03.080 out Marduk properly and going out

00:50:05.400 into the chaos and cutting it into

00:50:07.580 pieces and making order.

00:50:09.240 That was his job.

00:50:10.100 They used to take him outside the city

00:50:12.200 on the New Year's festival and strip

00:50:14.480 him of all his emperor garments and

00:50:16.840 humiliate him and then force him to

00:50:19.720 confess all the ways that year he

00:50:24.620 hadn't been a good Marduk.

00:50:26.560 So he wasn't a good ruler.

00:50:28.700 And so that was supposed to clue him in

00:50:30.060 and wake him up, right?

00:50:31.260 And then they would ritually reenact

00:50:34.160 the battle of Marduk against

00:50:36.180 Tiamat, the chaos monster, using 0.88

00:50:38.760 statues.

00:50:40.080 And then if that all went well, then

00:50:42.300 the emperor would go back in and the

00:50:44.400 city would be renewed for another

00:50:45.900 year.

00:50:46.340 And we still have echoes of that in our

00:50:48.000 New Year's celebration, right?

00:50:49.120 It's the same idea that's echoed down

00:50:50.760 all those centuries, thousands of years.

00:50:54.480 So it's such a staggeringly brilliant

00:50:56.720 idea, right?

00:50:57.520 Because so part of the idea is that the

00:51:00.260 thing that's sovereign, so that's the

00:51:01.840 pillar at the center that everyone

00:51:03.920 gathers around, is at least in part the

00:51:07.040 thing that courageously goes out into

00:51:08.740 the unknown and makes something useful

00:51:10.820 out of it for the community.

00:51:13.960 So that's very, very smart.

00:51:18.460 It's very smart.

00:51:19.380 So this is another example of a center.

00:51:23.000 So this is the flag, this is the Union

00:51:24.920 Jack, and so it's made up of a bunch of

00:51:27.640 crosses, right?

00:51:28.840 And so the first cross, the English cross, 0.91

00:51:31.580 that's the flag of St. George, that's the

00:51:33.360 flag of England.

00:51:34.160 And what does St. George do?

00:51:37.320 Slays the dragon, exactly.

00:51:38.940 Same idea, right?

00:51:39.960 So St. George, patron saint of England,

00:51:41.940 goes out and slays the dragon and frees the

00:51:43.860 virgin from the grip of the dragon.

00:51:46.060 Same idea, right?

00:51:47.080 So that's the center.

00:51:48.040 And then the second cross is called

00:51:51.880 a celtier, but it's another crucifix.

00:51:55.640 So it's the cross on which St. Andrew

00:51:57.400 was crucified.

00:51:59.060 So it's the same idea.

00:52:00.500 The center is the center of suffering

00:52:03.340 voluntarily undertaken, because St. Andrew

00:52:05.920 was a martyr.

00:52:07.020 And then St. Patrick is the third cross.

00:52:09.680 What did St. Patrick do in Ireland?

00:52:12.640 Chased out all the snakes.

00:52:14.840 Right, so it's the same thing, right?

00:52:17.120 And so the flag of Great Britain is the

00:52:19.540 combination of all of these three crosses

00:52:22.060 that defines the center.

00:52:23.800 And that's what the flag is.

00:52:25.340 So that symbolizes all of that.

00:52:28.080 So that's, you know, completely mind-boggling.

00:52:32.880 So, and there's more about St. Patrick too.

00:52:35.560 So he banishes the snakes after a 40-day fast.

00:52:38.380 And so that's an allusion to the 40 years

00:52:41.140 that Moses spends in the desert,

00:52:42.840 and also the 40 days that Christ fasts

00:52:45.580 in the New Testament.

00:52:46.740 And his walking stick, when he plants it,

00:52:49.020 grows into a tree.

00:52:50.460 So that echoes all of the ideas about the center

00:52:53.360 that we just described.

00:52:54.840 And he also speaks with the ancient Irish ancestors,

00:52:58.320 which, if you remember, is a characteristic

00:53:00.560 of the shamanic rituals where,

00:53:03.220 so in the typical shamanic ritual,

00:53:06.400 which seems to be elicited by psychedelic use,

00:53:11.760 the shaman dissolve down past their bones,

00:53:15.720 and then they go up into heaven

00:53:17.040 and speak with the ancestors.

00:53:18.900 And then they're introduced into the heavenly kingdom.

00:53:21.860 And then the flesh is put back on their bones,

00:53:25.160 and they come back and tell everybody what happened.

00:53:27.380 And that's a repeatable experience, right?

00:53:30.920 The shamanic tradition is unbelievably widespread.

00:53:35.180 So all over Europe, ancient Europe and Asia,

00:53:38.640 and perhaps as far down as South America, right?

00:53:41.180 It's highly conserved.

00:53:42.960 And it's out of that tradition,

00:53:44.780 in all likelihood, that our religious ideation emerged.

00:53:48.420 So, and you can see echoes of that here.

00:53:51.420 So, back to the story of Jacob and his ladder.

00:53:57.380 So that I can come again to my father's house in peace.

00:54:00.460 Then shall the Lord be my God.

00:54:01.860 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar,

00:54:03.620 shall be God's house. 0.92

00:54:04.680 And of all that that thou shalt give me,

00:54:06.440 I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

00:54:08.720 So, that's also an echo, I would say,

00:54:11.940 of the obligation of those who climb the power hierarchy

00:54:16.860 to attend to those who are at the bottom, right?

00:54:19.960 Because if you think about the tithing

00:54:22.020 as a form of wealth distribution,

00:54:24.320 which is essentially what it is,

00:54:25.700 part of the ethic that defines the proper moral endeavor

00:54:30.480 that's related to that center

00:54:32.460 is not to advance yourself

00:54:36.360 at the expense of the entire community.

00:54:38.680 So, if you're fortunate enough

00:54:41.460 so that you can rise in authority and power and competence

00:54:45.760 within the confines of a community,

00:54:47.500 you still have an obligation to maintain the structure,

00:54:52.340 maintain and further the structure of the community

00:54:54.440 within which you rose.

00:54:56.120 And that's obvious, right?

00:54:57.340 Because if people didn't do that

00:54:58.980 after a couple of generations,

00:55:00.220 the whole thing would fall apart.

00:55:02.000 So, you know, it's not reasonable

00:55:05.940 to destroy the game that you're winning.

00:55:08.620 It's reasonable to strengthen the game that you're winning.

00:55:12.000 And so, that's another thing

00:55:14.080 because that also describes the ethic

00:55:15.720 that should allow you to be an active member

00:55:18.380 of the community around which that gathers around that center.

00:55:24.140 So, one of the things I've learned about the hero mythology

00:55:27.960 that I really, really like is

00:55:29.380 so, you see this pretty clearly in the figure of Christ

00:55:32.580 because two things are conjoined in that story.

00:55:37.380 But Christ is also the hero.

00:55:39.720 There's two kinds of heroes.

00:55:40.900 There's the hero that goes out into chaos

00:55:42.600 and confronts the dragon of chaos

00:55:44.720 and gathers the treasure as a consequence

00:55:48.160 and then shares it with the community.

00:55:50.060 That's one.

00:55:51.440 The other form of hero is the hero

00:55:53.080 who stands up against the corrupt state

00:55:55.240 and rattles the foundation of the state,

00:55:58.940 has it collapse and then reconstructs it, right?

00:56:01.500 So, because the two great dangers to human beings

00:56:03.960 are unprotected exposure to the catastrophes

00:56:08.020 of the natural world

00:56:09.040 and subjugation to tyranny, right?

00:56:11.460 Those are the two major dangers.

00:56:13.380 And so, a hero is,

00:56:15.540 their ultimate hero is the person

00:56:16.900 who reconstructs the structure of the state

00:56:20.420 by using the information that he gathered

00:56:22.680 by going out into the unknown.

00:56:24.480 That unites them both.

00:56:26.160 And so, what that means,

00:56:28.380 here's the rub,

00:56:30.820 as far as I can tell.

00:56:32.380 So, a structure, a center,

00:56:34.580 has two risks associated with it.

00:56:37.920 One is that it will degenerate into chaos.

00:56:40.240 And the other is it will rigidify into tyranny.

00:56:43.780 And it'll degenerate into chaos

00:56:46.440 even if it just stays doing what it's doing.

00:56:50.500 So, if it just does exactly what it's doing

00:56:52.540 and it doesn't change,

00:56:53.840 it will degenerate.

00:56:55.120 Because things change,

00:56:57.100 and if it doesn't change to keep up,

00:56:59.220 then it gets farther and farther away

00:57:01.180 from the environment

00:57:02.000 and it'll precipitously collapse.

00:57:03.860 And so, and then if it just changes willy-nilly

00:57:07.100 so that nobody can establish

00:57:09.360 a stable, centralizing aim,

00:57:12.160 then it degenerates into chaos immediately

00:57:14.200 and no one can get along.

00:57:16.420 So, there's a rule for belonging to the community.

00:57:20.160 And the rule has to be

00:57:21.620 that you have to act in a manner

00:57:23.700 that sustains the community

00:57:27.880 and increases its competence.

00:57:29.740 That's the fundamental moral obligation

00:57:32.320 for belonging.

00:57:33.720 Well, and obviously so, right?

00:57:35.500 Because why would you belong to a...

00:57:37.940 Why would you walk into a clubhouse

00:57:39.420 that was on fire?

00:57:40.860 Like, that's just not smart, right?

00:57:42.600 If you're going to be part of the game,

00:57:44.980 if you've decided that being part of the game

00:57:46.980 is worthwhile,

00:57:48.100 you've also taken on the moral...

00:57:51.780 You've also decided,

00:57:53.080 even if you didn't notice it,

00:57:54.360 that you have to work to support that game.

00:57:56.880 Because by deciding to play that game,

00:57:58.920 you've said that it's valuable.

00:58:01.180 And if it's valuable,

00:58:02.220 then obviously you should work to

00:58:03.660 sustain and expand it

00:58:05.860 because that's the definition

00:58:07.040 of having a relationship

00:58:08.180 with something that's valuable.

00:58:10.280 And so, that's the criteria

00:58:12.820 for membership in the community.

00:58:15.940 And that's partly why

00:58:17.060 if you regard the cross, say,

00:58:20.220 as the symbol of voluntary suffering,

00:58:22.380 you know, suffering accepted voluntarily,

00:58:24.920 something like that,

00:58:26.420 which means that

00:58:27.480 there's another element of that, too,

00:58:29.320 that's worth thinking about.

00:58:30.880 So, you know,

00:58:31.640 the reason that Cain gets so out of hand

00:58:33.620 is because he's suffering

00:58:34.840 and he won't accept it.

00:58:36.960 He certainly won't accept responsibility for it.

00:58:38.900 He's angry and bitter about it.

00:58:40.940 And no wonder, right?

00:58:42.120 I mean, we have to be realistic

00:58:43.520 about these sorts of things.

00:58:45.240 You guys, all of you people,

00:58:46.600 are going to suffer

00:58:47.200 at some point in your life

00:58:48.500 to the point where

00:58:50.100 you're angry and bitter about it.

00:58:51.680 I mean, there's just absolutely

00:58:52.960 no doubt about that.

00:58:54.260 And you're even going to think,

00:58:55.380 well, it's no bloody wonder

00:58:56.580 that I'm angry and bitter about it.

00:58:58.660 Everyone would be.

00:58:59.980 And things are so God-awful

00:59:01.700 that there's no excuse

00:59:03.020 for them to even exist.

00:59:05.200 And, like, that's a powerful argument.

00:59:07.740 Although, I think it's ultimately

00:59:09.780 self-defeating.

00:59:11.260 Well, that's kind of what

00:59:11.940 the story of Cain and Abel...

00:59:13.680 That's kind of what

00:59:15.660 the story of Cain and Abel...

00:59:17.040 What would you say?

00:59:18.460 That's the moral of the story

00:59:19.820 of Cain and Abel, essentially.

00:59:23.820 So what that means instead

00:59:25.200 is that even under those conditions

00:59:26.880 of relatively intense suffering,

00:59:28.560 you have to accept it voluntarily

00:59:30.260 because otherwise

00:59:30.980 it turns you against being.

00:59:33.440 And then you start to act

00:59:34.620 in this terrible manner

00:59:35.900 that makes everything worse.

00:59:38.100 And it seems to me

00:59:39.020 that there's a contradiction in that.

00:59:40.500 If the reason you're complaining

00:59:42.040 is that things are bad,

00:59:44.000 then it isn't reasonable

00:59:45.640 for you to act in a manner

00:59:46.820 that makes them worse.

00:59:48.580 Right?

00:59:49.180 I mean, even if...

00:59:50.080 It's no wonder

00:59:50.840 that people do that.

00:59:51.960 But it's a degenerating game.

00:59:54.360 And so that's...

00:59:55.780 So, the idea...

00:59:58.200 Part of the idea of the cross

00:59:59.880 and the suffering

01:00:00.880 that it represents

01:00:01.820 is that if you can accept

01:00:03.900 that voluntarily

01:00:04.940 regardless of its intensity,

01:00:08.040 then you won't become

01:00:09.520 embittered and resentful

01:00:11.880 and vengeful to the point

01:00:13.720 where you pose a danger

01:00:15.280 to the stability

01:00:16.080 of the community.

01:00:18.320 So...

01:00:18.640 Or to your own stability

01:00:19.740 for that matter

01:00:20.480 because it's...

01:00:21.200 You know, it might be

01:00:21.840 your own stability,

01:00:22.800 the stability of your family,

01:00:23.980 the stability of the community

01:00:25.060 and the stability of the world.

01:00:26.440 It might be all of that.

01:00:28.340 And increasingly,

01:00:29.340 I think it is all of that.

01:00:32.740 So...

01:00:33.220 Okay, so...

01:00:36.380 Now, Jacob,

01:00:39.080 we get the second part

01:00:39.920 of Jacob's story.

01:00:41.880 He goes to meet his uncle,

01:00:45.280 Laban.

01:00:46.580 And he meets Rachel there

01:00:48.680 again by a well.

01:00:50.460 He falls in love

01:00:51.240 and goes to live with Laban.

01:00:53.700 There are two daughters there.

01:00:55.460 Leah, as well as Rachel.

01:00:58.280 Leah is not a particularly

01:01:00.260 attractive person.

01:01:01.680 It isn't exactly clear why,

01:01:03.340 but the story makes it quite clear.

01:01:04.900 She's definitely the least desirable 1.00

01:01:06.740 of the two daughters.

01:01:08.900 And the story makes reference

01:01:10.740 to her eyes,

01:01:11.460 and it isn't clear

01:01:12.180 if there's something wrong

01:01:13.120 with her physiologically

01:01:14.060 or if there's something wrong

01:01:15.140 with her attitude.

01:01:16.660 It's not obvious,

01:01:17.440 but it doesn't really matter.

01:01:18.720 The point is,

01:01:19.600 she's the older daughter,

01:01:20.820 but she's the less desirable one. 0.95

01:01:23.760 Jacob stays a month,

01:01:25.780 which is the limit of hospitality

01:01:27.320 in that time.

01:01:29.620 If you stayed for a month,

01:01:30.980 you were welcome,

01:01:31.720 but you had to work for your keep,

01:01:33.100 I think after about three days,

01:01:34.620 something like that,

01:01:35.260 which seems rather reasonable.

01:01:37.280 And so,

01:01:38.220 he stays a month,

01:01:39.480 and then,

01:01:40.460 he has a chat with Laban,

01:01:42.180 and he says,

01:01:43.040 he's fallen in love with Rachel

01:01:44.600 by this time,

01:01:45.300 and he says,

01:01:46.180 I'll stay with you

01:01:48.720 and work for seven years,

01:01:49.980 and then,

01:01:50.860 I'll wed Rachel.

01:01:53.000 And Laban says,

01:01:54.100 that's a fine deal.

01:01:55.440 And then,

01:01:56.900 the seven years passes,

01:01:59.420 and there's a wedding ceremony.

01:02:00.660 It's quite a long thing,

01:02:01.680 and the bride is veiled,

01:02:04.160 and the bride goes into the tent 0.97

01:02:09.280 with Jacob.

01:02:11.420 And if I remember the story correctly,

01:02:13.280 I haven't looked at it

01:02:13.980 for a month or so,

01:02:16.880 Rachel is outside the tent,

01:02:20.480 speaking,

01:02:21.520 but Leah is inside the tent.

01:02:23.820 And so,

01:02:24.580 Jacob thinks he's getting married

01:02:25.940 to Rachel,

01:02:27.360 but he's actually getting married

01:02:28.400 to Leah.

01:02:29.620 And this is,

01:02:30.640 it's an inversion,

01:02:31.760 because he's in the dark

01:02:33.560 like Isaac was

01:02:34.440 when he fooled Isaac.

01:02:36.100 So now it's Jacob's turn

01:02:37.300 to be in the dark.

01:02:38.340 And he gets betrayed

01:02:39.620 by his uncle,

01:02:41.420 and his bride-to-be,

01:02:42.760 Rachel,

01:02:43.300 and her sister,

01:02:44.660 in a manner that's

01:02:46.120 broadly parallel

01:02:47.140 to the trick

01:02:47.800 that he pulled on Esau.

01:02:49.840 And so there's a karma

01:02:50.800 notion there,

01:02:52.580 which I like.

01:02:54.100 You know,

01:02:54.440 I mean,

01:02:54.700 you might think of karma

01:02:55.540 as a superstitious idea,

01:02:59.700 but,

01:03:00.680 and there are ways

01:03:02.780 of interpreting it

01:03:03.500 that might make it the case,

01:03:04.680 but I don't think

01:03:05.780 that's what it is.

01:03:06.680 It's that

01:03:07.100 no bad deed

01:03:09.020 goes unpunished.

01:03:10.120 It's something like that.

01:03:11.180 It's like,

01:03:11.600 you know,

01:03:15.700 maybe you've done

01:03:16.280 something bad

01:03:17.140 to someone,

01:03:17.820 and therefore,

01:03:18.920 there's part of you

01:03:19.640 that feels quite guilty

01:03:20.580 about that,

01:03:21.440 hopefully.

01:03:22.660 And,

01:03:23.060 that part

01:03:24.820 is looking

01:03:25.980 for punishment

01:03:26.820 to set the

01:03:27.860 stage right.

01:03:29.840 And you might think,

01:03:30.820 well,

01:03:30.980 no,

01:03:31.420 but,

01:03:32.740 things are,

01:03:34.140 yes, 0.99

01:03:34.560 unless you're a psychopath, 0.99

01:03:35.720 that's how things work.

01:03:37.140 If you're interested

01:03:37.900 in that kind of thing,

01:03:38.620 you should read

01:03:39.120 Dostoevsky's

01:03:39.820 Crime and Punishment,

01:03:40.680 because it's the

01:03:41.300 definitive study

01:03:42.280 of that sort of

01:03:43.000 phenomena,

01:03:44.020 right,

01:03:44.220 because in that book,

01:03:45.300 the main protagonist,

01:03:46.500 Raskolnikov,

01:03:47.260 gets away with murder.

01:03:48.620 Like,

01:03:48.940 he does it successfully,

01:03:50.580 no one suspects him,

01:03:52.240 and he drives himself

01:03:53.360 so crazy with guilt

01:03:54.620 that he,

01:03:55.200 basically,

01:03:57.280 falls into the hands

01:03:58.240 of the police.

01:03:58.760 He drives himself

01:03:59.960 into the hands

01:04:00.840 of the police,

01:04:01.640 because he can't

01:04:02.400 tolerate what he did.

01:04:03.740 It's very,

01:04:04.300 it's amazing,

01:04:04.900 it's an amazing book.

01:04:06.100 But anyways,

01:04:06.680 the point is here,

01:04:08.560 Jacob falls prey

01:04:10.460 to the same sort of

01:04:11.580 crookedness

01:04:13.080 that he used

01:04:14.660 to ratchet himself

01:04:15.820 up the ladder.

01:04:17.160 And,

01:04:17.640 that happens

01:04:18.840 far more often

01:04:19.640 in life

01:04:20.100 than people think.

01:04:21.120 And it's really not like

01:04:22.140 he can complain about it,

01:04:23.280 right?

01:04:23.720 Not if he has any sense,

01:04:25.080 it's like he does.

01:04:25.960 He brings Leah

01:04:27.060 out to see Laban,

01:04:29.200 and he says,

01:04:30.820 what's,

01:04:31.280 what's with this sister? 1.00

01:04:33.960 You know,

01:04:34.220 and Laban basically

01:04:35.260 says to him,

01:04:36.740 in our culture,

01:04:39.360 it's the custom

01:04:40.940 to marry

01:04:41.620 the eldest daughter

01:04:42.940 first,

01:04:43.520 which is exactly right.

01:04:44.940 And he said,

01:04:45.360 well,

01:04:45.580 it would bring,

01:04:46.500 you know,

01:04:46.780 he's rationalizing,

01:04:47.780 obviously,

01:04:48.200 because he's just

01:04:48.920 screwed over Jacob

01:04:50.460 in a major way.

01:04:51.740 But,

01:04:52.220 it's a little late

01:04:53.300 to take it back.

01:04:55.760 The marriage

01:04:56.380 has been consummated,

01:04:57.760 and the ceremony

01:04:58.420 has been complete,

01:04:59.380 and all hell 0.66

01:05:00.620 would break out

01:05:01.320 if there was

01:05:01.720 any attempt

01:05:02.600 to sever

01:05:04.540 the relationship.

01:05:05.640 So,

01:05:05.980 that's how it is.

01:05:08.420 So,

01:05:08.800 Leah's married,

01:05:09.880 and Jacob

01:05:10.780 has the wrong wife. 0.98

01:05:13.400 So,

01:05:13.740 then,

01:05:14.500 so this is Jacob

01:05:15.440 there.

01:05:16.160 You see on the left,

01:05:17.420 he's got the little

01:05:18.080 flowery hat,

01:05:19.020 and he's pointing

01:05:19.720 to Leah,

01:05:20.740 and he's saying,

01:05:21.620 like,

01:05:22.000 what,

01:05:22.360 what's up here?

01:05:23.480 And,

01:05:24.520 and,

01:05:24.720 and,

01:05:28.740 Laban,

01:05:29.820 you know,

01:05:30.220 Laban, 0.91

01:05:30.680 he's a tough old goat, 0.70

01:05:32.160 and he's not really 0.78

01:05:33.380 all that sad about it.

01:05:34.440 In fact,

01:05:34.760 you can imagine

01:05:35.280 that he's kind of going,

01:05:36.100 so,

01:05:38.020 so,

01:05:39.900 okay,

01:05:40.080 then he has to work

01:05:40.760 another seven years,

01:05:42.580 and he gains Rachel.

01:05:46.080 But,

01:05:46.860 because God

01:05:47.740 is a tricky character,

01:05:49.600 there's another twist

01:05:51.260 in this story.

01:05:51.880 Rachel

01:05:53.400 turns out

01:05:54.900 not to be very good

01:05:55.860 at having children,

01:05:57.420 or Rachel and Jacob

01:05:58.580 turn out not to be very good

01:05:59.860 at having children,

01:06:00.800 but Leah,

01:06:01.980 she's really good

01:06:03.400 at having kids.

01:06:05.180 So,

01:06:06.200 she provides

01:06:08.000 Jacob with

01:06:09.360 Reuben,

01:06:09.940 Simeon,

01:06:10.600 Levi,

01:06:11.260 or it's Levi,

01:06:12.040 I believe,

01:06:12.600 and Judah.

01:06:14.120 And the names of those,

01:06:15.460 the meanings of those names

01:06:16.500 are there.

01:06:17.160 Reuben means see a son,

01:06:18.860 Simeon means hearing,

01:06:20.340 I think that was

01:06:21.060 the Lord heard my prayer,

01:06:22.360 I think that's what that was.

01:06:24.000 Levi means joined,

01:06:25.320 Judah means praise to Yahweh, 1.00

01:06:27.560 and it's Judah

01:06:29.860 from whose tribe

01:06:30.780 Christ arises.

01:06:32.160 Judah is essentially

01:06:33.040 promoted

01:06:33.580 to the status

01:06:34.420 of firstborn

01:06:35.220 later in the story.

01:06:36.520 This is important

01:06:37.220 because Reuben,

01:06:38.580 Simeon,

01:06:38.960 and Levi

01:06:39.380 all

01:06:40.400 do something

01:06:42.100 reprehensible.

01:06:42.840 and so Judah

01:06:43.980 gets

01:06:44.780 promoted

01:06:47.100 to firstborn

01:06:47.880 and that's partly

01:06:48.940 why

01:06:49.340 in the logic

01:06:51.120 of this narrative

01:06:51.840 that it's from

01:06:53.040 the tribe of Judah

01:06:54.060 that Christ arises.

01:06:55.100 so

01:06:56.180 so

01:06:58.360 now

01:06:59.400 while this is going on

01:07:00.420 Rachel is like

01:07:01.360 suicidally desperate 0.96

01:07:02.460 for children

01:07:03.040 she's jealous 1.00

01:07:03.720 of her older sister

01:07:04.880 who's rather ill-favored

01:07:06.300 as we pointed out

01:07:07.140 but who seems to be

01:07:08.420 damn good

01:07:09.000 at producing sons 0.99

01:07:09.980 and

01:07:10.900 she's

01:07:11.940 really not happy

01:07:13.220 with Jacob

01:07:13.800 and so she chews him out

01:07:15.200 and Jacob basically says

01:07:16.740 like what do you want me

01:07:17.480 to do about it

01:07:18.020 I'm not God

01:07:18.800 which is a

01:07:19.620 reasonable response

01:07:20.940 I would say

01:07:21.480 and

01:07:22.220 so

01:07:23.060 in her desperation

01:07:24.580 she gives

01:07:25.240 Jacob

01:07:25.760 Billa

01:07:26.140 who's her

01:07:27.180 maidservant

01:07:28.060 we've seen that sort of thing

01:07:29.300 happen before

01:07:30.040 and

01:07:31.700 Billa

01:07:34.280 produces two children

01:07:35.480 Dan and

01:07:36.000 Naphtali

01:07:36.860 the reason I'm detailing out

01:07:39.240 all these sons

01:07:39.980 it's important because

01:07:41.220 Jacob is the founder

01:07:42.660 of Israel

01:07:43.240 and

01:07:44.440 his sons are the founder

01:07:45.900 of the twelve tribes

01:07:47.040 so

01:07:47.920 it's a pivotal moment

01:07:49.480 in the story

01:07:50.240 right

01:07:50.640 it's because

01:07:51.240 he's the

01:07:51.700 he's the

01:07:52.400 fundamental patriarch

01:07:53.920 of

01:07:54.340 of those who wrestle

01:07:55.960 with God

01:07:56.600 because

01:07:57.000 as we'll see

01:07:57.860 that's what the name

01:07:58.700 Israel means

01:07:59.380 he gets the name Israel

01:08:00.600 you'll see why

01:08:01.780 in a while

01:08:02.300 but

01:08:02.920 but it's

01:08:04.140 you need to know

01:08:05.100 these genealogies

01:08:05.980 in this situation

01:08:06.780 because

01:08:07.220 they play an important role

01:08:09.360 in everything

01:08:10.060 that happens afterwards

01:08:11.060 so

01:08:12.340 Naphtali

01:08:15.640 is the second

01:08:16.440 and her name

01:08:18.640 or his name means

01:08:19.560 with great wrestlings

01:08:20.720 I have wrestled

01:08:21.320 with my sister

01:08:22.060 right

01:08:22.580 contended with her

01:08:23.620 and have prevailed

01:08:24.760 so

01:08:25.940 that gives you

01:08:27.840 some indication

01:08:28.480 of the tension

01:08:29.140 in the household

01:08:29.860 now

01:08:31.380 Leah is now

01:08:32.400 past bearing children 0.99

01:08:33.460 she gives

01:08:33.940 Jacob her

01:08:35.020 maidservant

01:08:36.940 too

01:08:37.200 Zilpah 0.97

01:08:37.740 to keep up

01:08:38.460 with her sister

01:08:39.120 I guess

01:08:40.080 and

01:08:40.960 now

01:08:42.260 Zilpah 0.97

01:08:43.980 bears two children

01:08:45.580 for Jacob

01:08:46.320 so he's piling up

01:08:47.480 the kids

01:08:47.940 left right

01:08:48.840 and center

01:08:49.280 here

01:08:49.600 one of them

01:08:51.500 is named

01:08:51.860 Gad

01:08:52.260 good fortune

01:08:52.940 and the other

01:08:53.380 is named

01:08:53.900 Asher

01:08:54.380 happy or blessed

01:08:55.440 so

01:08:56.440 there's more rivalry

01:08:58.960 going on

01:08:59.540 between the sisters

01:09:00.260 this is quite a

01:09:01.100 interesting little story

01:09:02.420 so Reuben

01:09:03.320 who's Leah's

01:09:04.900 daughter

01:09:05.280 goes out

01:09:07.360 and looks for

01:09:07.860 mandrakes 0.85

01:09:08.560 now mandrakes

01:09:09.820 have aphrodisiac

01:09:10.860 properties

01:09:11.300 so that's a little

01:09:12.080 odd to begin with

01:09:13.180 but it doesn't

01:09:14.600 matter

01:09:14.840 that's what

01:09:15.260 happens

01:09:15.720 and Rachel

01:09:17.280 is

01:09:18.680 Rachel wants 0.60

01:09:21.200 the mandrakes

01:09:21.820 because she's still 0.93

01:09:22.680 interested in having

01:09:23.540 some children

01:09:24.100 and so she bargains

01:09:25.140 with Leah

01:09:26.480 to give her a night

01:09:27.380 with Jacob

01:09:27.940 in exchange

01:09:28.800 for the mandrakes

01:09:29.700 and

01:09:30.520 more sons

01:09:32.060 emerge as a

01:09:33.520 consequence of that

01:09:34.440 so

01:09:35.460 and Rachel

01:09:37.760 finally gives

01:09:38.440 birth

01:09:38.840 Joseph

01:09:40.480 and Joseph

01:09:42.300 plays a key role

01:09:43.460 in the last

01:09:44.320 story in Genesis

01:09:45.640 which

01:09:46.040 I hope

01:09:47.180 we'll get to

01:09:47.760 in the next lecture

01:09:48.720 and then we can

01:09:49.280 close off

01:09:49.920 Genesis

01:09:50.680 that's the plan

01:09:51.620 anyways

01:09:52.080 so now

01:09:53.840 Jacob

01:09:54.960 isn't really

01:09:56.100 very happy

01:09:56.720 about the whole

01:09:57.380 arrangement

01:09:57.860 because he

01:09:58.440 he's been there

01:09:59.400 14 years

01:10:00.160 and he's got

01:10:00.820 two wives

01:10:01.260 it's not too bad

01:10:02.020 but

01:10:02.200 you know

01:10:02.900 he got

01:10:03.340 the bargain

01:10:04.380 wasn't exactly

01:10:05.300 clean

01:10:05.780 he doesn't really

01:10:06.680 trust Laban

01:10:07.460 and there's no

01:10:08.280 reason for him

01:10:09.340 to do so

01:10:09.960 Laban was poor

01:10:12.940 before Jacob

01:10:13.660 came

01:10:14.020 Jacob turns out

01:10:14.820 to be a very

01:10:15.400 useful

01:10:15.880 person to have

01:10:17.880 around

01:10:18.240 and so

01:10:19.280 he tells Laban

01:10:20.400 he wants to leave

01:10:21.060 and go back

01:10:21.520 to his home

01:10:21.960 country

01:10:22.320 and that he'll

01:10:23.820 take the speckled

01:10:24.800 and spotted cattle

01:10:25.860 the brown sheep

01:10:26.720 and the spotted

01:10:27.720 and speckled goats

01:10:28.780 from the flock

01:10:29.480 and they're in the

01:10:30.320 minority

01:10:30.760 so that's the idea

01:10:31.900 and so Laban

01:10:33.040 or Laban

01:10:34.320 takes all those

01:10:35.620 animals out of his

01:10:36.380 flock

01:10:36.680 so there was an

01:10:37.920 idea that the

01:10:38.700 speckled goats

01:10:39.620 and the brown

01:10:40.220 sheep

01:10:40.620 would breed true

01:10:42.040 so

01:10:42.740 if you have

01:10:44.240 a male goat

01:10:45.840 and a female goat

01:10:47.000 and they're both

01:10:47.700 speckled

01:10:48.080 they'll have

01:10:48.440 speckled kids

01:10:49.160 that's the theory

01:10:49.940 and the same

01:10:50.920 with brown sheep

01:10:51.680 and so what Laban

01:10:52.480 does is he takes

01:10:53.280 all the speckled

01:10:54.360 animals

01:10:55.340 out of the flocks

01:10:56.840 gives them to his

01:10:57.940 son

01:10:58.240 and they go

01:10:59.040 three days away

01:10:59.780 with him

01:11:00.100 so that Jacob

01:11:00.840 is left with

01:11:01.560 the flock

01:11:02.180 but with no

01:11:03.260 with none of

01:11:04.400 these animals

01:11:04.960 now the idea

01:11:05.780 was that all

01:11:06.280 the newborns

01:11:07.240 were going to be

01:11:07.720 his

01:11:08.100 and so what

01:11:08.900 Laban has

01:11:09.380 basically done

01:11:10.000 is set it up

01:11:10.600 so that in

01:11:11.080 principle

01:11:11.540 Jacob is going

01:11:13.980 to get nothing

01:11:14.440 for his work

01:11:15.140 so that's another

01:11:16.740 time when Jacob

01:11:17.760 experiences

01:11:19.000 betrayal

01:11:20.260 you know it's

01:11:21.520 almost as if

01:11:22.120 God isn't done

01:11:23.000 with reminding

01:11:23.900 him of the

01:11:25.360 magnitude of what

01:11:26.180 he did in the

01:11:26.700 past

01:11:27.100 that's the

01:11:27.920 moral of the

01:11:29.200 story in some

01:11:29.800 sense

01:11:30.100 now there's a

01:11:31.260 weird little twist

01:11:32.080 in the story

01:11:32.620 here so what

01:11:33.200 Jacob does is

01:11:33.920 some sympathetic

01:11:34.880 magic

01:11:35.440 and so when

01:11:36.480 the animals

01:11:37.380 are rutting

01:11:38.320 he puts

01:11:39.360 speckled objects

01:11:40.460 in front of

01:11:41.040 them speckled

01:11:41.660 branches and

01:11:42.300 so forth

01:11:42.800 I guess to

01:11:43.480 remind them

01:11:44.100 about what

01:11:44.560 they're supposed

01:11:45.000 to be producing

01:11:45.780 something like

01:11:46.840 that and it

01:11:47.740 works and so

01:11:48.480 all these animals

01:11:49.800 that Laban

01:11:50.380 left are

01:11:51.120 producing spotted

01:11:53.400 animals like

01:11:54.220 mad and so

01:11:55.120 that's I guess

01:11:56.500 God's changed

01:11:57.300 his mind and

01:11:58.100 let Jacob off 0.66

01:11:59.940 the hook

01:12:00.260 slightly here

01:12:00.960 so

01:12:01.980 soon he was

01:12:03.560 very wealthy

01:12:04.300 much cattle

01:12:05.980 maidservants

01:12:06.640 menservants 0.98

01:12:07.260 camels and 1.00

01:12:07.880 asses 0.94

01:12:08.460 Laban's son

01:12:09.340 sons become

01:12:10.560 jealous and

01:12:11.280 Laban is

01:12:11.760 outraged

01:12:12.280 well you know

01:12:12.960 obviously there's

01:12:13.640 some competition

01:12:14.360 there between

01:12:14.920 Jacob and the

01:12:15.560 sons which is

01:12:16.140 hardly surprising

01:12:16.920 and Laban

01:12:17.700 played this trick

01:12:18.480 to strip

01:12:19.440 Jacob of all

01:12:20.140 his property

01:12:20.600 and instead

01:12:21.420 he got far

01:12:22.220 more than he

01:12:22.700 was going to

01:12:23.060 get to begin

01:12:23.600 with so you

01:12:24.140 can imagine

01:12:24.540 that's been

01:12:25.020 a bit annoying

01:12:25.840 so Jacob

01:12:26.740 thinks he

01:12:27.200 better get

01:12:27.640 out of there

01:12:28.060 so he tells

01:12:29.220 Rachel and

01:12:29.840 Leah

01:12:30.040 and said

01:12:31.480 unto them

01:12:31.860 I see your

01:12:32.340 father's

01:12:32.740 countenance

01:12:33.240 that it's

01:12:33.980 not toward

01:12:34.520 me as

01:12:34.880 before

01:12:35.300 but the

01:12:36.440 God of

01:12:36.740 my father

01:12:37.200 has been

01:12:37.600 with me

01:12:38.020 and you

01:12:38.520 know with

01:12:38.800 all my

01:12:39.140 power I've

01:12:39.660 served your

01:12:40.080 father

01:12:40.440 and your

01:12:40.980 father has

01:12:41.440 deceived me

01:12:42.040 and changed

01:12:42.500 my wages

01:12:43.040 ten times

01:12:43.780 but God

01:12:44.660 so far

01:12:45.180 has suffered

01:12:45.680 him not

01:12:46.100 to hurt

01:12:46.460 me

01:12:46.700 if he

01:12:47.740 said thus

01:12:48.440 the speckled

01:12:49.460 shall be

01:12:49.840 thy wages

01:12:50.440 then all

01:12:51.160 the cattle

01:12:51.660 bore

01:12:51.940 speckled

01:12:52.560 and if he

01:12:53.260 said thus

01:12:53.780 the ring

01:12:54.220 straked

01:12:54.720 shall be

01:12:55.320 thy hire

01:12:55.760 then all

01:12:56.440 the cattle

01:12:56.860 bore

01:12:57.080 ring

01:12:57.360 straked

01:12:57.800 thus God

01:12:58.640 has taken

01:12:59.080 away the

01:13:00.040 her father

01:13:00.460 and given

01:13:01.120 them to

01:13:01.480 me

01:13:01.700 and they

01:13:02.900 decide to

01:13:03.540 sneak away

01:13:04.340 and they're

01:13:05.460 unhappy with

01:13:06.220 the lack of

01:13:07.540 inheritance from

01:13:08.120 LeBan

01:13:08.420 so as they

01:13:09.120 sneak away

01:13:09.700 Rachel steals 0.55

01:13:11.020 the idols

01:13:11.700 that her

01:13:12.160 father has

01:13:13.360 in his

01:13:13.660 house

01:13:14.000 and it's

01:13:14.700 not exactly

01:13:15.300 obvious why

01:13:16.220 there's a lot

01:13:17.080 of contention

01:13:17.760 about why

01:13:18.280 she's doing

01:13:18.800 that

01:13:19.020 some of

01:13:19.340 them is

01:13:19.620 to punish

01:13:20.400 him

01:13:20.720 to bring

01:13:22.080 with her

01:13:22.540 the images

01:13:23.020 of her

01:13:23.400 ancestors

01:13:23.920 you know

01:13:24.300 maybe she's

01:13:24.880 lonesome

01:13:25.240 moving away

01:13:25.800 from home

01:13:26.260 just out of

01:13:27.240 spite

01:13:27.620 to show him

01:13:28.540 that the idols

01:13:29.160 were actually

01:13:29.860 powerless

01:13:30.440 for protection

01:13:31.820 to stop her

01:13:32.940 father from

01:13:33.540 divining the

01:13:34.380 root of their

01:13:34.920 escape

01:13:35.300 that last one

01:13:36.020 is the strangest

01:13:36.780 one because

01:13:37.320 the idea would

01:13:38.400 be that LeBan 0.93

01:13:39.220 would have used

01:13:39.920 some sort of

01:13:41.800 ritual with the

01:13:43.320 idols that would

01:13:44.260 help him infer

01:13:45.220 their escape route

01:13:46.080 and then could

01:13:46.600 chase them 0.90

01:13:47.140 so anyways

01:13:47.700 that's the range

01:13:48.500 of speculation

01:13:49.100 about that

01:13:49.940 I think it

01:13:50.880 sounds to me

01:13:51.480 mostly like a

01:13:52.320 little act of

01:13:53.460 revenge

01:13:54.000 maybe with a

01:13:55.500 bit of

01:13:56.540 loneliness

01:13:57.880 mixed in

01:13:58.700 LeBan

01:13:59.660 pursues them

01:14:00.420 but God

01:14:01.900 comes in a

01:14:02.480 dream to

01:14:02.860 tell him

01:14:03.160 to leave

01:14:03.520 Jacob

01:14:03.860 unharmed

01:14:04.440 LeBan

01:14:05.900 catches up

01:14:06.480 with him

01:14:06.720 and reproaches

01:14:07.420 Jacob

01:14:07.800 saying that

01:14:08.300 he would

01:14:08.560 have thrown

01:14:09.280 a great

01:14:09.720 party

01:14:10.180 if he would

01:14:11.120 have known

01:14:11.480 that they

01:14:11.920 were going

01:14:12.260 to leave

01:14:12.840 you know

01:14:13.400 he didn't

01:14:13.760 want them

01:14:14.060 to sneak

01:14:14.460 away in

01:14:14.800 the night

01:14:15.080 you can't

01:14:16.180 tell from

01:14:16.660 the story

01:14:17.080 whether that's

01:14:17.660 true or

01:14:18.000 not

01:14:18.200 and you know

01:14:18.880 these people

01:14:19.400 were pretty

01:14:20.160 rough and

01:14:21.400 impulsive

01:14:21.940 I would say

01:14:22.680 and maybe

01:14:23.360 there was a

01:14:23.740 50% chance

01:14:24.800 of a slaughter

01:14:25.360 and a 50%

01:14:26.200 chance of a

01:14:26.880 party

01:14:27.180 who knows

01:14:28.140 I've been to

01:14:28.800 parties like

01:14:29.400 that actually

01:14:30.040 so

01:14:31.040 LeBan

01:14:33.520 complains that

01:14:34.240 his gods

01:14:34.720 are gone

01:14:35.180 and Jacob

01:14:35.920 says that

01:14:36.460 whoever has

01:14:37.160 them he will

01:14:37.660 have them 1.00

01:14:38.080 killed 1.00

01:14:38.520 and Rachel

01:14:39.740 who's really

01:14:40.320 quite a

01:14:41.000 sneaky character

01:14:42.000 all things

01:14:42.760 considered

01:14:43.180 basically

01:14:44.300 claims that

01:14:45.300 she's having

01:14:46.400 her period

01:14:47.100 and she's

01:14:47.600 sitting on

01:14:48.120 the carpet

01:14:49.640 with all the

01:14:51.020 idols underneath

01:14:51.660 and she can't

01:14:52.400 move and so

01:14:53.140 they search

01:14:53.620 everywhere and

01:14:54.100 can't find

01:14:54.600 them

01:14:54.720 and she's

01:14:55.220 like laughing

01:14:56.060 away behind

01:14:56.680 her hand

01:14:57.520 about that

01:14:58.140 sneaky little

01:14:58.900 maneuver

01:14:59.260 but she

01:15:00.660 doesn't die

01:15:01.560 so that's

01:15:02.040 probably a

01:15:02.640 good thing

01:15:03.080 so LeBan 0.57

01:15:05.980 checks everything

01:15:07.380 out

01:15:07.620 checks the

01:15:08.040 camp out

01:15:08.440 and he

01:15:08.680 can't find

01:15:09.160 anything

01:15:09.460 so they

01:15:10.280 reconcile

01:15:10.820 and so

01:15:11.360 that's the

01:15:11.780 first

01:15:12.100 reconciliation

01:15:12.940 that Jacob

01:15:14.940 engages in

01:15:15.820 it's sort

01:15:16.240 of like

01:15:16.660 the

01:15:18.160 what would

01:15:23.040 you say

01:15:23.400 the karmic

01:15:24.100 debt

01:15:24.340 has been

01:15:24.680 paid

01:15:25.120 that's one

01:15:25.700 way of

01:15:26.020 thinking

01:15:26.240 about it

01:15:27.000 that's

01:15:27.500 so

01:15:27.920 he got

01:15:28.960 punished

01:15:29.300 for his

01:15:29.740 wrongdoing

01:15:30.340 he's learned

01:15:31.900 his lesson

01:15:32.500 perhaps

01:15:33.220 and it's

01:15:35.400 it's

01:15:35.900 that's good

01:15:37.160 enough as far

01:15:37.840 as he's

01:15:38.200 concerned

01:15:38.520 you know

01:15:38.860 he got away

01:15:39.680 good enough

01:15:40.360 and they

01:15:40.660 make peace

01:15:41.240 so

01:15:42.220 then the

01:15:45.940 next thing

01:15:46.380 that happens

01:15:46.960 as they're

01:15:48.120 traveling

01:15:48.520 is that

01:15:48.940 Jacob

01:15:49.260 was left

01:15:49.740 alone

01:15:50.140 and there

01:15:50.720 wrestled

01:15:51.280 a man

01:15:51.780 man

01:15:53.360 angel

01:15:54.100 god

01:15:54.680 it's not

01:15:55.380 clear

01:15:55.780 we'll go

01:15:59.400 with angel

01:15:59.920 with him

01:16:00.680 until the

01:16:01.080 breaking of

01:16:01.520 the day

01:16:01.820 or god

01:16:02.440 and when he

01:16:03.100 saw that he

01:16:03.660 prevailed not

01:16:04.440 against him

01:16:04.940 he touched

01:16:05.340 the hollow

01:16:05.780 of his thigh

01:16:06.460 and the hollow

01:16:06.980 of Jacob's thigh

01:16:07.760 was out of

01:16:08.240 joint as he

01:16:08.880 wrestled with

01:16:09.360 him

01:16:09.500 and he

01:16:10.040 said let

01:16:10.460 me go

01:16:10.840 for the

01:16:11.160 day breaks

01:16:11.760 and Jacob

01:16:12.720 said I

01:16:13.100 will not

01:16:13.500 let you

01:16:13.800 go

01:16:14.000 unless you

01:16:14.440 bless me

01:16:14.960 and the

01:16:15.960 angel said

01:16:16.460 unto him

01:16:16.860 what is

01:16:17.180 thy name

01:16:17.680 and Jacob

01:16:18.620 said

01:16:18.960 Jacob

01:16:19.700 and the

01:16:24.300 angel said

01:16:24.800 thy name

01:16:25.320 shall no

01:16:25.980 more be

01:16:26.620 called

01:16:26.880 Jacob

01:16:27.360 so the

01:16:27.900 supplanter

01:16:28.520 right

01:16:28.900 the

01:16:29.200 overthrower

01:16:30.380 with that

01:16:31.000 kind of

01:16:32.360 intonation

01:16:33.080 of or

01:16:33.560 implication

01:16:34.200 of crookedness

01:16:34.980 but Israel

01:16:35.940 which means

01:16:36.680 he who

01:16:37.220 wrestles

01:16:37.840 or strives

01:16:38.600 successfully

01:16:39.260 with God

01:16:40.060 for as a

01:16:41.140 prince

01:16:41.460 hast thou

01:16:42.620 power

01:16:42.980 with God

01:16:43.480 and with

01:16:43.760 men

01:16:44.020 and hast

01:16:44.440 prevailed

01:16:44.880 that's

01:16:45.620 quite a

01:16:46.000 story

01:16:46.400 like

01:16:46.980 it's

01:16:47.360 I don't

01:16:48.220 I don't

01:16:48.520 know exactly

01:16:49.020 what to

01:16:49.400 make of

01:16:49.740 it

01:16:49.900 there's

01:16:50.540 obviously

01:16:50.940 a symbolic

01:16:51.640 level of

01:16:52.620 meaning

01:16:52.980 which is

01:16:53.400 that

01:16:53.620 that is

01:16:55.020 what human

01:16:55.480 beings do

01:16:56.140 in some

01:16:56.540 sense

01:16:56.980 is they

01:16:57.420 they wrestle

01:16:58.420 I would

01:16:59.100 say they

01:16:59.500 wrestle

01:16:59.880 with the

01:17:00.400 divine

01:17:00.900 even with

01:17:01.780 the concept

01:17:02.380 of the

01:17:02.840 divine

01:17:03.160 for that

01:17:03.580 matter

01:17:03.940 and

01:17:04.880 but the

01:17:08.060 question is

01:17:08.640 do they

01:17:09.040 prevail

01:17:09.620 like it's

01:17:10.140 an odd

01:17:10.620 thing

01:17:11.000 that

01:17:11.260 Jacob

01:17:12.260 actually

01:17:12.700 seems to

01:17:13.160 win this

01:17:13.820 battle

01:17:14.200 right

01:17:14.400 or at

01:17:14.600 least he

01:17:14.920 wins it

01:17:15.380 enough

01:17:15.800 so that

01:17:16.320 whoever he's

01:17:17.680 wrestling

01:17:18.100 this divine

01:17:18.780 figure that he's

01:17:19.440 wrestling

01:17:19.780 is willing to

01:17:20.860 bestow a

01:17:21.380 blessing on

01:17:21.940 him

01:17:22.040 I guess

01:17:22.320 maybe that's

01:17:23.140 a testament

01:17:23.560 to his

01:17:24.080 courage

01:17:24.580 it's

01:17:25.060 something

01:17:25.300 like that

01:17:25.900 maybe it's

01:17:26.700 an indication

01:17:27.360 that

01:17:27.800 he has

01:17:29.040 paid for

01:17:29.680 his sins

01:17:30.220 sufficiently

01:17:30.880 so that

01:17:31.440 he's sort

01:17:31.820 of back

01:17:32.240 on the

01:17:32.600 moral high

01:17:33.100 ground

01:17:33.540 but I

01:17:35.320 think it's

01:17:35.740 really telling

01:17:36.460 that the

01:17:37.180 transformation

01:17:37.760 of the

01:17:38.360 name from

01:17:38.920 Jacob to

01:17:39.600 Israel

01:17:39.960 and that

01:17:40.660 what Israel

01:17:41.240 means is

01:17:41.900 he who

01:17:42.920 wrestles

01:17:43.380 with God

01:17:44.040 or who

01:17:44.880 struggles

01:17:45.280 with God

01:17:45.880 and perhaps

01:17:46.440 successfully

01:17:47.060 but it's

01:17:48.740 also so

01:17:49.180 interesting

01:17:49.560 that he

01:17:49.900 actually

01:17:50.200 emerges

01:17:50.620 victorious

01:17:51.260 you know

01:17:52.260 you wouldn't

01:17:52.620 necessarily

01:17:53.040 think that

01:17:53.500 that would

01:17:53.820 be a

01:17:54.100 possibility

01:17:54.600 especially

01:17:55.080 given

01:17:55.520 you know

01:17:56.360 God's

01:17:56.820 rather

01:17:57.280 hot-headed

01:17:57.840 nature

01:17:58.260 in the

01:17:58.620 Old

01:17:58.800 Testament

01:17:59.200 you don't

01:17:59.760 want to

01:17:59.940 mess with

01:18:00.360 him

01:18:00.520 too much

01:18:01.100 but

01:18:01.880 Jacob

01:18:02.760 does it

01:18:03.180 successfully

01:18:03.760 but

01:18:04.020 even more

01:18:05.060 importantly

01:18:05.520 is the

01:18:05.900 idea

01:18:06.240 that

01:18:06.600 whatever

01:18:07.640 Israel

01:18:08.280 constitutes

01:18:09.060 which would

01:18:09.700 be to say

01:18:10.100 the land

01:18:10.560 that Jacob

01:18:11.040 founds

01:18:12.660 is actually

01:18:13.620 composed of

01:18:14.460 those who

01:18:14.980 wrestle with

01:18:15.640 God

01:18:16.060 I think

01:18:16.760 that's an

01:18:17.120 amazing idea

01:18:17.960 because

01:18:18.320 it also

01:18:19.420 seems to me

01:18:20.320 to shed

01:18:20.800 some light

01:18:22.000 on

01:18:22.340 perhaps what

01:18:23.760 was meant

01:18:24.180 by belief

01:18:24.920 in those

01:18:25.380 days

01:18:25.740 you know

01:18:26.120 like I've

01:18:26.760 often thought

01:18:27.260 of marriage

01:18:28.280 as a wrestling

01:18:29.160 match

01:18:29.620 right

01:18:29.900 if you're

01:18:30.540 lucky

01:18:30.820 the person

01:18:31.340 that you

01:18:31.660 marry

01:18:31.940 is someone

01:18:32.320 you contend

01:18:33.060 with

01:18:33.400 it's not

01:18:34.020 exactly

01:18:34.560 I don't

01:18:35.300 think it's

01:18:35.680 exactly

01:18:36.140 it's not

01:18:37.240 tranquil

01:18:37.820 precisely

01:18:38.560 you know

01:18:39.960 you might have

01:18:40.720 noticed that

01:18:41.240 some of you

01:18:41.740 and

01:18:42.480 but the thing

01:18:44.440 is if you have

01:18:45.000 something to

01:18:45.580 contend against

01:18:46.780 then that

01:18:47.640 strengthens you

01:18:48.580 and that's

01:18:50.600 actually better

01:18:51.320 than having

01:18:51.820 nothing to

01:18:52.420 contend against

01:18:53.280 and so

01:18:53.820 Jacob

01:18:54.860 is the person

01:18:56.720 who's also

01:18:57.280 strengthened by

01:18:58.260 the necessity

01:18:58.900 of this

01:18:59.460 contending

01:19:00.200 and that

01:19:01.240 seems to be

01:19:01.740 the proper

01:19:02.320 relationship

01:19:03.020 with God

01:19:03.860 or the angel

01:19:04.520 is that

01:19:04.960 contending

01:19:05.820 the battling

01:19:06.840 right

01:19:07.340 rather than

01:19:08.260 some sort

01:19:08.880 of

01:19:09.140 kind of

01:19:10.020 loose

01:19:11.320 weak

01:19:12.360 statement

01:19:13.400 of belief

01:19:14.160 I mean

01:19:15.420 I'm not

01:19:15.740 trying to

01:19:16.120 denigrate

01:19:16.540 that to

01:19:16.920 any great

01:19:17.280 degree

01:19:17.560 it just

01:19:17.880 doesn't

01:19:18.120 seem like

01:19:18.480 the right

01:19:18.980 mode of

01:19:19.720 conceptualization

01:19:20.860 right

01:19:21.180 because human

01:19:21.740 beings

01:19:22.040 aren't

01:19:22.900 like that

01:19:23.820 we're

01:19:24.460 contentious

01:19:26.420 creatures

01:19:26.940 and that

01:19:27.920 actually

01:19:28.280 seems to

01:19:28.700 be something

01:19:29.080 that meets

01:19:29.520 with God's

01:19:30.120 favor in

01:19:30.660 this situation

01:19:31.320 so especially

01:19:32.480 given that

01:19:33.060 that's actually

01:19:33.660 what he names

01:19:34.340 the well the

01:19:35.340 whole kingdom

01:19:36.000 of the chosen

01:19:36.700 people is

01:19:37.420 the idea is

01:19:39.060 that that's

01:19:39.560 composed of

01:19:40.220 those who

01:19:40.760 contend with

01:19:41.680 God

01:19:42.400 so that's

01:19:43.980 that's a hell

01:19:44.640 of an idea

01:19:45.160 that that's

01:19:45.900 for sure

01:19:46.340 and Jacob

01:19:49.020 asked

01:19:49.480 him and said

01:19:51.620 tell me I

01:19:52.160 pray thee thy

01:19:53.040 name and he

01:19:53.540 said wherefore

01:19:54.900 is it thou

01:19:55.280 dost ask

01:19:56.100 after my

01:19:56.580 name so

01:19:57.040 there's no

01:19:57.420 that's not

01:19:57.920 happening

01:19:58.300 and he

01:19:58.840 blessed him

01:19:59.300 there and

01:20:00.000 Jacob called

01:20:00.540 the place

01:20:00.960 of the name

01:20:01.580 of the place

01:20:02.040 Peniel for

01:20:02.800 I've seen

01:20:04.340 God face

01:20:04.920 to face and

01:20:05.580 my life is

01:20:06.140 preserved and

01:20:07.620 he passed

01:20:08.000 over Peniel

01:20:09.180 the sun rose

01:20:10.020 upon him and

01:20:10.540 he halted upon

01:20:11.140 his thigh

01:20:11.660 now Jacob

01:20:13.380 does walk

01:20:14.060 away injured

01:20:16.020 from this

01:20:16.680 right so he

01:20:17.820 has a permanent

01:20:18.320 limp after that

01:20:19.380 and so that's

01:20:20.480 also an indication

01:20:21.400 of just how

01:20:22.440 dangerous that

01:20:23.240 contention actually

01:20:24.180 is like he

01:20:25.220 gets blessed

01:20:25.820 he wins but

01:20:26.500 he doesn't

01:20:26.900 get away

01:20:27.260 scot-free

01:20:27.940 and so

01:20:29.020 now so

01:20:31.780 Jacob goes

01:20:32.360 back to

01:20:32.880 Esau and

01:20:34.780 he's terrified

01:20:35.440 even though it's

01:20:36.140 been 14 years

01:20:37.080 he thinks maybe

01:20:37.860 his hot-headed

01:20:38.520 brother hasn't

01:20:39.180 calmed down yet

01:20:39.960 and he has good

01:20:40.820 reason to think

01:20:41.480 that I would

01:20:42.000 say so he

01:20:44.120 sends messengers

01:20:44.800 to Esau who

01:20:45.680 then sets out

01:20:46.360 with 400 men

01:20:47.380 and so Jacob

01:20:48.460 is not very

01:20:49.160 happy with this

01:20:49.860 whole idea and

01:20:51.040 he breaks his

01:20:51.620 people into two

01:20:52.400 bands so that

01:20:53.120 maybe half of

01:20:53.800 them cannot be 0.99

01:20:54.500 killed and 0.98

01:20:55.620 then he takes 0.94

01:20:56.260 from his large

01:20:57.240 flocks a bunch

01:20:58.120 of animals and

01:20:59.720 a bunch of

01:21:00.740 servants and he

01:21:01.300 sends them out

01:21:01.880 to meet Esau

01:21:02.580 basically to say 1.00

01:21:03.840 look I'm a jerk 0.99

01:21:06.060 and sorry about 0.99

01:21:07.500 the whole birthright

01:21:08.440 thing and here's

01:21:11.620 some animals and

01:21:12.540 you know maybe

01:21:13.160 that's the beginnings

01:21:15.060 of an apology

01:21:16.660 it's something like

01:21:17.560 that and so but

01:21:18.920 he's not very

01:21:19.880 convinced that that's

01:21:21.540 actually going to

01:21:22.160 work but Esau

01:21:23.860 who actually

01:21:25.220 turns out to

01:21:26.040 perhaps have

01:21:26.840 matured in the

01:21:27.760 interim perhaps

01:21:29.020 that's one way of

01:21:29.800 thinking about it

01:21:30.620 meets Jacob and

01:21:33.000 says that just

01:21:33.740 seeing him is

01:21:34.440 enough but Jacob

01:21:35.720 insists that he

01:21:36.700 takes the gift

01:21:37.520 and Esau

01:21:38.220 accepts and

01:21:40.320 which is probably

01:21:41.360 a wise thing

01:21:42.140 because even

01:21:43.800 if Esau is

01:21:45.040 95% convinced

01:21:46.560 that just seeing

01:21:47.220 his brother is

01:21:48.280 enough there's

01:21:48.800 probably 5% of

01:21:49.880 them that's still

01:21:50.420 really not all

01:21:51.240 that happy and

01:21:52.760 so you have to

01:21:53.660 be careful you

01:21:54.480 know when you

01:21:54.920 say that you

01:21:55.880 forgive someone

01:21:56.640 because there

01:21:57.900 might be a part

01:21:58.520 of you that

01:21:58.900 really doesn't

01:21:59.540 that really needs

01:22:00.320 something else

01:22:00.980 before you can

01:22:01.700 actually say

01:22:02.380 okay look fight

01:22:04.840 you know and you

01:22:05.940 don't want to fool

01:22:06.500 yourself about that

01:22:07.420 because that 5%

01:22:08.580 that hasn't been

01:22:10.320 completely convinced

01:22:11.280 will find its

01:22:12.200 voice at some

01:22:13.120 point and then

01:22:13.740 maybe undermine

01:22:14.600 the whole reconciliation

01:22:16.120 process so you

01:22:17.480 don't want to

01:22:17.900 think that you're

01:22:18.520 any better than

01:22:19.300 you are or any

01:22:20.000 nicer than you

01:22:20.760 are it's not 0.76

01:22:21.360 helpful and so

01:22:22.920 Esau is smart

01:22:24.260 I think so while

01:22:25.360 Jacob's smart to

01:22:26.140 say no no like

01:22:27.260 thanks a lot but 0.99

01:22:28.240 take the damn 0.99

01:22:29.120 goats and Jacob 1.00

01:22:31.800 and Esau is smart

01:22:34.160 enough to accept

01:22:35.240 that and he might

01:22:36.280 do that maybe to

01:22:37.340 you know to

01:22:40.220 please Jacob but

01:22:41.460 also I think so

01:22:42.640 that there really

01:22:43.320 is the possibility

01:22:44.280 of establishing

01:22:45.000 peace because

01:22:46.160 hypothetically the

01:22:47.460 gift that's being

01:22:48.160 offered is of

01:22:49.520 sufficient magnitude

01:22:50.500 to erase the

01:22:52.180 debt of the

01:22:52.900 loss of the

01:22:53.440 birthright it's

01:22:54.140 something like

01:22:54.620 that right it's

01:22:55.360 it's it's it's

01:22:56.720 it's the payment

01:22:57.920 of the real debt

01:22:58.860 and Esau said

01:23:03.840 what meanest thou

01:23:04.820 by all this

01:23:05.560 drove which I

01:23:06.280 met and

01:23:06.820 Jacob said these

01:23:07.900 are to find

01:23:08.400 grace in the

01:23:09.260 sight of my

01:23:09.780 lord and Esau

01:23:11.280 says I have

01:23:12.380 enough brother

01:23:12.920 keep thou keep

01:23:14.180 that that thou

01:23:14.820 hast unto

01:23:15.340 thyself

01:23:15.980 and Jacob

01:23:20.500 said this is

01:23:21.880 interesting statement

01:23:22.760 I think no I

01:23:23.920 pray you if if I

01:23:25.120 have now found

01:23:25.760 grace in thy

01:23:26.440 sight take the

01:23:27.980 present at my

01:23:28.840 hand for

01:23:30.140 therefore I have

01:23:30.960 seen thy face as

01:23:32.060 though I had seen

01:23:32.800 the face of God

01:23:33.760 and thou was

01:23:34.740 pleased with me

01:23:35.580 and so that's so

01:23:37.080 he's he's taking

01:23:38.580 the honorable

01:23:40.640 judgment of his

01:23:41.600 brother because it

01:23:42.300 is honorable because

01:23:43.160 Esau did get

01:23:44.160 betrayed so he

01:23:45.640 has a right to be

01:23:46.540 standing in judgment

01:23:47.580 and he equates that

01:23:50.380 judgment with with

01:23:52.540 what would you say

01:23:53.660 with the highest of

01:23:54.580 virtues it's

01:23:55.400 appropriate judgment

01:23:56.380 and so he wants

01:23:58.380 to make complete

01:24:00.860 amends to Esau as

01:24:02.140 if Esau is a

01:24:02.980 representative of the

01:24:04.000 divine element of

01:24:05.360 justice and I

01:24:08.680 guess that's

01:24:09.160 convincing to Esau

01:24:10.560 it's quite a thing

01:24:11.300 to say you know

01:24:12.860 that I need to be

01:24:13.900 reconciled to you

01:24:14.840 because that would

01:24:15.440 simultaneously reconcile

01:24:16.580 me with God it's

01:24:17.760 like it's crucial this

01:24:19.440 is between us but

01:24:20.700 it's there's a higher

01:24:21.700 principle at stake that's

01:24:22.860 vital and I think that

01:24:24.160 is the case with

01:24:25.200 betrayal that's very

01:24:26.280 frequently the case

01:24:27.340 because if you betray

01:24:28.200 someone you really have

01:24:29.340 violated you've

01:24:30.900 deeply violated what

01:24:32.140 can only be called a

01:24:33.160 sacred trust it's the

01:24:34.660 right terminology for

01:24:35.640 that take it I pray

01:24:37.380 the my blessing that

01:24:39.160 is brought to thee

01:24:39.840 because God has dealt

01:24:40.920 graciously with me and

01:24:42.120 because I have enough

01:24:43.040 and he urged him and

01:24:44.820 he took it so you

01:24:47.200 know the story seems to

01:24:48.160 be something like well

01:24:50.500 Jacob was kind of an 1.00

01:24:54.240 arrogant crooked deceitful 0.99

01:24:56.120 character maybe over 1.00

01:24:57.940 impressed with his own

01:24:58.860 ability he thought it

01:25:00.140 was pretty amusing to

01:25:01.240 pull a fast trick or two

01:25:03.380 on his brother then he

01:25:04.940 ran off which is not all

01:25:06.680 that brave and then he

01:25:08.400 got walloped a lot and

01:25:10.320 perhaps learned something

01:25:11.800 and then when he came

01:25:13.060 back you know he was a

01:25:14.100 different person and so

01:25:15.680 that's a that's a

01:25:20.160 reasonable story and you

01:25:21.960 know he he has to repent

01:25:24.360 completely of about what

01:25:27.780 he did before he can

01:25:29.440 rectify the situation

01:25:31.340 properly and he's willing

01:25:32.440 to do that so that's an

01:25:35.560 interesting idea too because

01:25:36.920 it's it's it's it's an

01:25:38.940 early reflection of the

01:25:40.140 idea that it is if you do

01:25:41.940 something wrong in the

01:25:42.880 past a that you can learn

01:25:45.060 from it right so that

01:25:46.360 you're actually capable of

01:25:47.400 learning and be that you

01:25:48.940 can set the balance right in

01:25:52.020 the present those are very

01:25:53.700 optimistic ideas you know

01:25:55.140 because you might say well

01:25:56.700 once you've committed some

01:25:58.300 sort of crime that's it

01:26:00.180 there's no hope for you but

01:26:01.220 that's pretty rough because the

01:26:03.080 probability that you've done

01:26:04.500 unethical things at some

01:26:06.420 point in your life is a

01:26:07.420 hundred percent and so if

01:26:09.200 there was no way of setting

01:26:11.980 the balance right after that

01:26:14.100 then everybody would be doomed

01:26:15.640 so

01:26:16.580 so then the story gets rough

01:26:21.720 again Jacob settles in

01:26:23.320 Shalem

01:26:23.920 or Shalem

01:26:25.640 Dinah his daughter goes

01:26:26.980 looking around for friends

01:26:28.200 Shechem the son of Hamor 1.00

01:26:30.460 lays with her

01:26:31.280 and then wants her for his

01:26:33.200 wife he actually has the

01:26:34.400 order reversed there that

01:26:35.640 turns out to be a problem

01:26:36.880 Jacob hears of this the

01:26:39.700 father's talk and so they

01:26:41.920 make an agreement

01:26:42.760 the agreement is is that if

01:26:46.280 all of Hamor's men including

01:26:48.160 Hamor and his son are

01:26:50.120 circumcised so that's the

01:26:51.800 proper offering I guess that

01:26:53.440 brings them into the familial

01:26:55.080 fold and indicates that they're

01:26:57.020 willing to make a sacrifice to

01:26:58.820 do so especially after you know

01:27:01.580 Shechem put the cart before the

01:27:03.000 horse let's say

01:27:03.880 the men of Hamor are circumcised

01:27:06.780 they agree to do so that turns

01:27:08.780 out to be a big mistake so while

01:27:10.420 they're laying around the next

01:27:12.340 day suffering madly from the

01:27:14.180 circumcision

01:27:14.880 Simeon and Levi come in they 0.99

01:27:18.120 sneak in and kill all of them and 1.00

01:27:20.340 take their wealth and their women 1.00

01:27:21.560 and children that's rough it's

01:27:24.300 rough yeah I guess you guys

01:27:28.240 noticed that eh so so they're

01:27:33.640 honor societies right and there's

01:27:35.600 still lots of honor societies in

01:27:37.120 the world and so they don't take

01:27:38.480 kindly to what happened to their

01:27:39.980 to their sister although they

01:27:42.440 don't kill her so now it turns out

01:27:48.420 that yeah it says as it came to

01:27:50.120 pass on the third day when they

01:27:51.400 were sore the two of the sons of

01:27:53.320 Jacob Simeon and Levi Dinah's

01:27:55.540 brethren took each man his sword 0.85

01:27:57.140 and came upon the city boldly and

01:27:58.880 slew all the males and they slew

01:28:00.880 Hammer and Shechem his son with the 0.67

01:28:02.420 edge of the sword and took Dinah out 0.82

01:28:04.340 of Shechem's house and went out

01:28:06.180 the sons of Jacob came upon the

01:28:08.560 slain and spoiled the city because 0.80

01:28:10.000 they had defiled their sister they

01:28:12.960 took the sheep and the oxen and the

01:28:14.400 asses and that which was in the city

01:28:16.000 and that was which was in the field

01:28:17.580 and all their wealth and all their

01:28:19.280 little ones and their wives took

01:28:21.240 they kept captive and spoiled

01:28:22.900 everything else that was in the

01:28:24.140 house and Jacob actually turns out

01:28:26.500 not to be very happy about that

01:28:27.940 because he'd met with Hammer and

01:28:29.680 they like hammered out a deal and

01:28:32.100 that and that's where they were

01:28:33.800 living and so he figured well that

01:28:36.680 he was making the best of a bad lot

01:28:38.460 let's say and his sons went behind

01:28:40.880 his back and Jacob says to Simeon and

01:28:44.720 Levi you have troubled me to make me

01:28:46.640 to make me stink among the

01:28:48.220 inhabitants of the land among the

01:28:49.920 Canaanites and the Perizzites and I 0.97

01:28:51.820 being few in number they shall gather

01:28:54.020 themselves now together against me 1.00

01:28:55.820 and slay me and I shall be destroyed 0.99

01:28:58.040 I and my house and they said should he 0.98

01:29:01.260 deal with our sister as with a harlot 0.89

01:29:03.380 and God said unto Jacob and this is

01:29:08.220 where we get back to the idea of the

01:29:09.640 center God says to Jacob arise go to 0.87

01:29:12.440 Bethel and dwell there so Bethel was 0.87

01:29:15.700 where Jacob had originally put that

01:29:17.240 pillar right so now it's back so it's

01:29:20.360 it's it's it's a real hero's journey

01:29:22.060 right there's there's the place that

01:29:24.020 he has a set place he goes out and has

01:29:26.840 these adventures and and undergoes a

01:29:29.340 moral transformation reconciles and

01:29:32.200 then he comes back to the same place

01:29:33.980 right as a transformed person so that's

01:29:36.220 a full hero cycle arise go to Bethel and

01:29:39.560 dwell there and make thou and there an

01:29:41.500 altar unto God that appeared to thee when

01:29:43.800 thou fleddest from the face of Esau thy

01:29:45.600 brother and Jacob said to his

01:29:47.780 household and to all that were with

01:29:49.260 him put away the strange gods that are

01:29:51.640 among you and be clean and change your

01:29:55.360 garments and let us arise and go up to

01:29:57.580 Bethel and I will make there an altar

01:29:59.720 unto God who answered me in the day of

01:30:01.760 my distress and was with me in the way

01:30:04.440 which I went and they gave unto Jacob all

01:30:07.660 the strange gods which were in their hand

01:30:09.500 and all their earrings which were in

01:30:11.320 their ears and Jacob hid them under the

01:30:13.520 oak which was by Shechem and they

01:30:15.120 journeyed and the terror of God was

01:30:18.040 upon the cities that were round about

01:30:19.480 them and they did not pursue after the

01:30:21.240 sons of Jacob so Jacob came to Luz which

01:30:24.200 is in the land of Canaan that is Bethel

01:30:26.380 so that's the place where he put up the

01:30:28.260 pillar to begin with he and all the

01:30:30.080 people that were there with him and he

01:30:31.880 built there an altar and called the

01:30:33.800 place El Bethel because there God

01:30:36.160 appeared to him when he fled from the

01:30:37.540 face of his brother and God appeared to

01:30:40.520 Jacob again when he came out of

01:30:42.240 Paddan Aram and blessed him and God

01:30:44.240 said unto him thy name is Jacob thy name

01:30:48.340 shall not be called anymore Jacob which

01:30:50.720 you remember means usurper but Israel 0.98

01:30:53.020 shall be thy name he who wrestles with

01:30:56.280 God and he called his name Israel and

01:30:59.920 God said to him I am God Almighty be

01:31:01.800 fruitful and multiply a nation and a

01:31:04.100 company of nations shall be of thee and

01:31:06.120 kings shall come out of thy loins and 1.00

01:31:08.520 the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac

01:31:10.200 to thee I will give it and to thy seed

01:31:12.360 after thee will I give the land and God

01:31:15.840 went up from him in the place where he

01:31:17.240 talked with him and God set up Jacob set

01:31:19.580 up a pillar in the place where he talked

01:31:21.500 with him a pillar of stone and he poured a

01:31:23.620 drink offering thereon and he poured oil

01:31:25.840 thereon and Jacob called the name of the

01:31:28.080 place where God spake with him Bethel so 0.75

01:31:35.500 he's reached he's returned to the central

01:31:37.500 place which had been given to him as his

01:31:40.720 territory Rachel dies in labor in the

01:31:45.360 process giving birth to Benoni son of my

01:31:49.080 sorrow whose name was then changed to

01:31:51.180 Benjamin son of the right hand now Reuben

01:31:56.500 so Simeon and Levi have already done

01:32:01.580 something unforgivable now Reuben it's

01:32:03.760 Reuben's term he sleeps with Bilhah who's 0.99

01:32:06.860 Jacob Israel's concubine so he's the third of

01:32:10.040 the sons to make an unforgivable error and

01:32:12.760 Jacob slash Israel gets wind of it so Reuben is

01:32:16.100 no longer he would have been the premier

01:32:18.540 son given that the two older sons were put

01:32:21.780 out of the running so to speak because of

01:32:24.560 their disobedience and impulsive vengeful

01:32:28.600 cruelty and then Reuben can't keep his

01:32:31.240 what do they say well you get the idea

01:32:34.780 yeah yeah seems to be something that's

01:32:39.540 still quite surprisingly common

01:32:41.160 so then we have this story that that

01:32:47.080 basically ends with this establishment of

01:32:50.240 the 12 tribes of Israel from Leah there's

01:32:53.740 Reuben Simeon Levi Judah Issachar and

01:32:56.720 Zebulun from Zilpah there's Gad and

01:32:58.920 Asher from Bilah there's Dan and Naphtali

01:33:01.620 and from Rachel there's Joseph who figures

01:33:04.640 extraordinarily importantly in the next

01:33:07.160 story that we're going to cover which

01:33:08.440 hopefully will wrap up Genesis and

01:33:12.000 Benjamin and so now Israel itself is 0.91

01:33:16.940 established and so then we turn to

01:33:22.960 actually going to end this early tonight

01:33:25.580 that's quite bloody miracle so the story

01:33:31.300 then turns to Joseph and the story begins

01:33:36.540 essentially now Israel loved Joseph more

01:33:38.840 than all his children because he was the

01:33:40.420 son of his old age and he made him a coat

01:33:43.040 of many colors and so what that seems to me

01:33:46.760 to indicate you know coats in dreams

01:33:49.380 very often seems to be particularly true

01:33:52.100 of women's dreams that's that's been my

01:33:53.800 my clinical observation clothing footwear

01:33:57.340 in particular symbolizes a role and that

01:34:02.140 makes sense right because you dress for the

01:34:03.740 roles it's not that big a mystery but so

01:34:06.840 then you might say well what does a coat

01:34:08.160 of many colors indicate and you know if you

01:34:12.120 think of the multiplicity there it's

01:34:15.600 something like the mastery of multiple

01:34:17.640 domains right or or maybe something like

01:34:19.920 plural potentiality and so Jacob is is

01:34:23.880 Israel's or Joseph is Israel's favorite 0.96

01:34:26.560 and because he sees in him this excess

01:34:30.160 possibility and he basically tells his other

01:34:33.140 sons that Jacob is going to be the head

01:34:36.720 son which they are not happy with right

01:34:39.160 because he's just this young punk

01:34:40.740 fundamentally he's clearly his father's

01:34:43.160 favorite and he gets this coat that's sort

01:34:44.960 of indicative of this higher status and so

01:34:48.040 Israel inadvertently sets up a tremendous 1.00

01:34:53.220 amount of sibling rivalry in the household

01:34:55.860 again and that that's the the under

01:35:01.400 structure of the last story in Genesis and

01:35:05.280 so in in the last of this lecture series

01:35:09.000 for 2017 we'll cover the story of Joseph

01:35:13.540 and and his coat of many colors and what

01:35:16.340 happens as a consequence of his of the

01:35:19.260 favoritism shown to him by his father and

01:35:22.800 we'll track what happens as a consequence of

01:35:27.080 that and so I'm going to stop there because

01:35:29.960 I'm finished so going online without ExpressVPN

01:35:39.220 is like not paying attention to the safety

01:35:41.180 demonstration on a flight most of the time

01:35:43.500 you'll probably be fine but what if one day

01:35:46.040 that weird yellow mask drops down from

01:35:48.000 overhead and you have no idea what to do in

01:35:50.740 our hyper-connected world your digital privacy

01:35:53.020 isn't just a luxury it's a fundamental right

01:35:55.560 every time you connect to an unsecured network

01:35:57.680 in a cafe hotel or airport you're essentially

01:36:00.520 broadcasting your personal information to

01:36:02.520 anyone with a technical know-how to intercept

01:36:04.720 it and let's be clear it doesn't take a genius

01:36:07.000 hacker to do this with some off-the-shelf

01:36:09.220 hardware even a tech savvy teenager could

01:36:11.520 potentially access your passwords bank

01:36:13.580 logins and credit card details now you might

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01:38:21.740 hello Dr. Peterson this is an idea I've been wrestling with for

01:38:29.660 quite some time now this idea of a lot of like the greatest

01:38:35.240 sources of wisdom that we've received through human

01:38:38.240 history either through text experiences or scriptures seems to

01:38:43.700 always come from people going to isolation and then coming back so I've

01:38:50.780 had a hard time trying to figure out from a scientific point of view or

01:38:54.920 evolutionary point of view what would compel an organism to that is that is

01:39:01.480 centered around its behavior its behavior centered around surviving in especially

01:39:06.820 for humans and social groups as well as reproducing to want to go into isolation

01:39:11.980 and then not only that but obtain some level of information that actually helps the

01:39:18.680 group in coming back that's a really good question

01:39:21.820 um okay so there's this neuroscientist neuropsychologist named L. Conan Goldberg

01:39:30.180 and Goldberg was a student of Alexander Luria and Alexander Luria was a Russian

01:39:36.000 neuropsychologist perhaps the foremost neuropsychologist of the mid to late 20th

01:39:42.080 century and he had students Sokolov and Vinaigradova who discovered the orienting

01:39:48.800 reflex for example the orienting reflex is the reflex that orients you when

01:39:52.440 something anomalous interferes with your goal-directed behavior it's a major

01:39:56.660 discovery like one of the one of the four or five most important discoveries that

01:40:01.880 have ever been made in in in in psychology I would say certainly in neuroscience so

01:40:06.940 Luria was a big deal and he he was the first person who really established the

01:40:11.900 functional role of the prefrontal cortex as well so and had a very nice overall view of how the

01:40:19.360 brain functioned his book was written in 1980 and it's still there's still lots in it that's

01:40:24.180 really useful which is pretty strange for a science that's advanced that quickly

01:40:28.000 anyways so Goldberg came from a great pedigree I believe Luria's teacher was Pavlov if I remember

01:40:37.700 correctly so anyways um Goldberg you know you hear some of you may have heard the idea that

01:40:46.880 the left hemisphere is more linguistic than the right hemisphere is that left hemisphere is

01:40:53.920 specialized for language and the right hemisphere is specialized for non-verbal

01:40:58.360 imagistic communication the left hemisphere has a pretty um well-organized microstructure

01:41:05.580 and the right hemisphere is more diffuse as well and that's true in left-handed males in particular

01:41:13.100 so the circuitry can be switched around a bit but it's okay the modules are basically the same

01:41:18.520 although they can be moved a little bit but Goldberg thought that it isn't language versus non-language

01:41:24.080 it's routine versus novelty and so the left hemisphere and there's a neuropsychologist physician

01:41:32.560 named Ramachandran who's done some very interesting work um that's pertinent to this maybe I'll tell

01:41:39.440 you a story about him anyways Goldberg believed that the right hemisphere

01:41:44.400 so you have very old systems underneath both both cortical hemispheres that do things like respond to

01:41:53.680 anomaly to the thing that doesn't fit to the predator in the distance some of that's extraordinarily fast so

01:42:00.600 that would be like a snake reflex that can move you away from a snake in less time than it takes the

01:42:05.340 snake to bite and it's really a reflex it doesn't even hit your brain it's really super fast and then

01:42:10.740 there's a defensive crouch that's that's instantiated higher up in the nervous system but that's still

01:42:16.700 remarkably fast and then there's fear as an emotion and and the orientation of attention and then there's

01:42:23.460 the cognitive processing and that all streams out across a time span right and maybe that time span is

01:42:28.800 half a second so and that's really a long time if something is attacking you so you got it those initial

01:42:34.700 responses are quite primitive but they're extraordinarily fast all right so there's subcortical structures

01:42:41.200 that orient you towards novelty and prepare you for for freezing or for attending and the right hemisphere

01:42:49.020 seems to be dominated by those systems so imagine that what happens is that something threatens you

01:42:56.240 you orient towards it the right hemisphere produces a bunch of images about what it might be so imagine

01:43:01.780 that's what happens when a child is afraid of the dark the child's on the bed they're afraid of the dark

01:43:06.740 they're crouched because they're frozen like a prey animal and their right hemisphere is producing

01:43:11.280 monsters to inhabit the the darkness that are the child's hypotheses about what might be out there

01:43:18.800 okay because that's what you want to know right you want to know what's out there

01:43:24.300 and then you want to know what to do about it i can tell you two kids dreams that are sort of relevant

01:43:29.960 to that so when my daughter was about three she came into uh the bedroom that my wife and i had and

01:43:38.280 she was crying she'd had a nightmare and she said that she saw a stream and there was garbage all over

01:43:45.980 the stream and she didn't like that and so i sat her down i said okay so imagine the stream with the

01:43:52.660 garbage in it now imagine that you're taking the garbage out and throwing it in the garbage

01:43:55.940 bin and so she and i got her to like visualize that because that kind of puts her back in the

01:44:01.820 semi-dream state and then she cleaned up the mess and then she could go off to sleep now you you could

01:44:07.100 tell the child don't worry about the dream isn't real but that's not that's true because it's not real

01:44:12.020 like other daytime things are but it's not like it's not real it's a dream like a dream is real it's just

01:44:19.440 not the same kind of real and so what i did with her was to indicate to her practically that if she

01:44:27.580 saw something anomalous something that was out of place right something that was a mess that it was

01:44:32.920 within her capacity to set it right okay and so okay so now your right hemisphere tells you what monsters

01:44:41.120 might inhabit the the darkness now what you have to do is figure out there's two things you have to

01:44:47.520 figure out one is what to do about a given monster and the other is to do what about is to figure out

01:44:55.240 what to do about the class of all possible monsters right that's a whole different thing that's something

01:45:01.660 that only human beings are capable of that level of abstraction right and so what you might do about

01:45:07.340 a particular monster is hide or go out and get rid of it if it was just an actual animal right

01:45:13.960 but that doesn't help because there's all the other potential predators that are still there

01:45:18.340 and so maybe you can go hunt all them down but that doesn't help either because you you can't hunt

01:45:23.040 them all down it's not it's not very likely anyways so instead what you have to do is figure out how to

01:45:28.620 configure yourself so that you're in the best possible position to fight off the monsters when they come

01:45:33.400 that's your best bet all right so now people are trying to figure this out forever

01:45:38.360 they're trying to figure out what's the answer to the problem of the class of all possible monsters

01:45:45.000 part of that sacrifice so there are routines for example in in hinduism with the goddess kelly you

01:45:53.940 make offerings to kelly who's this devouring goddess and then she turns into her benevolent counterpart 0.88

01:45:59.780 and so sacrifice is actually one way that you can tame the monsters if if you think about the

01:46:05.820 monster as the set of all negative future potentialities you make the proper sacrifices

01:46:11.440 those monsters stay at bay but then there's heroism as an alternative to which which means

01:46:17.660 the active confrontation of the class of all possible monsters and the building of yourself up

01:46:22.800 into the sort of courageous person that can do that it took a tremendous amount of meditation

01:46:27.880 to transform those images say of the monsters into into it or to solve the problem of the class of those

01:46:40.020 monsters so so now i'll tell you another child's dream so some of you probably heard this before but

01:46:45.680 it's such a great dream that it's worth it's worth telling

01:46:48.620 so i was at my sister-in-law's house once and her son was running around he's about four very

01:46:58.440 precocious very verbal very intelligent running around with a night hat on and a sword so he's

01:47:05.600 engaged in this pretty intense play world and when he goes to sleep he puts the night hat on his pillow

01:47:11.520 and the sword by his pillow and at the same time he's having night terror so he's waking up

01:47:17.400 and it had been for a number of weeks nate waking up screaming and then but he doesn't know why

01:47:23.440 there's some things that aren't going so well in the household and the parents get divorced shortly

01:47:29.780 afterwards okay so that's a that's that's what's going on underneath right and he's also going to

01:47:35.940 go to kindergarten and so he's about to go into the world and so he's coping with this you know so

01:47:42.400 i'm watching him zoom around as this night and thinking that's pretty cool

01:47:47.020 and uh that night he woke up and had a and it was screaming and so we're all at breakfast the next

01:47:54.180 morning and i said did you dream anything and he got really intense and he said yes i had a dream

01:48:02.560 and i said well what was the dream and he said well i was out on this field and all these

01:48:10.160 like dwarves came up to me they're only about as high as my knees and they didn't have any arms 1.00

01:48:15.860 they had powerful legs and they were covered with like hairy feathers and grease and there was cross

01:48:23.220 carved in the top of their head and they had beaks and when whenever he moved anywhere they would jump

01:48:29.680 at him with his with their beaks and there were lots of them and everyone like just said nothing at

01:48:35.560 breakfast it was like cousin he was right into this story eh and so we were all like yeah well

01:48:42.640 that accounts for all the screaming and so and then he said yeah and then in the background there was a

01:48:50.340 dragon and every time the dragon puffed out smoke it would turn into these dwarves it's like oh man kid 0.82

01:49:00.100 you really got a problem there you got you got beat things that are biting you and you can kill

01:49:05.720 them and that's fine but then there's the dragon just puffing out new ones so it's like a hydra problem

01:49:11.880 right the old hydra is the serpent you cut off one head seven more grow it's not a good thing and it's

01:49:17.240 such a cool dream because it really portrayed this class of all possible monsters problem so you've got

01:49:24.160 the specific monsters and that's a problem so you got to get rid of them but that's not the problem

01:49:28.980 the problem is is that there's a there's something in the background that's just generating monsters

01:49:33.260 like mad and so i said to him what do you think you could do about that and that's a that's a loaded

01:49:40.940 question right that's like leading the witness in a trial you don't get to ask a question like that

01:49:45.960 because it implies that it implies the answer what could you do about that is not any different than

01:49:52.760 saying you could do something about that right so so i i hinted at that as a possibility and his eyes

01:50:01.040 lit up now you remember he's already running around as a knight hey so he kind of already knew what to

01:50:06.360 do because he had the whole sword in the hat and with that you know that you can go after the dragon

01:50:11.540 he kind of got that and he said i'd get my dad and then i'd jump up on top of the dragon and i'd poke

01:50:19.680 out both of its eyes with my sword and then it'd go right down its throat to the fire box where the

01:50:25.560 fire comes out and i'd carve out a piece of the fire box and then i'd use that as a shield and i

01:50:31.660 thought yes right right man it's so smart hey because he got the thing instantly he knew that

01:50:42.200 he knew so imagine first of all he thought okay i have to go to the heart of the problem 0.98

01:50:46.640 right and really to the heart not to the dragon but right down the damn thing's gullet right to 0.95

01:50:52.680 the place where the fire was actually being which was actually being created because there it was 0.90

01:50:58.180 there you could find the shield and that he'd take this thing that was fireproof and make a shield out

01:51:03.040 of it and so that was just dead bloody perfect it was so cool and you think well how could a kid

01:51:09.140 come up with that and there's a bunch of answers i mean one is we know snake fear is innate we know

01:51:14.540 that now there's been recent research that that that that has demonstrated that okay so and we've

01:51:20.520 been preyed on and being predators for a very long period of time so the idea that and i found something

01:51:26.720 else interesting about the brain out that out about the brain recently too in a book i was reading by

01:51:31.980 ray kurtzweil called how to build a mind i think that's what it was called it was quite a good book

01:51:36.120 so i think it was in that book or it was in a neuroscience paper i was reading doesn't matter

01:51:42.060 but it was in one of those two places so you know that scanning technology has got more and more

01:51:47.600 high resolution over the last few years right it just gets more and more high resolution all the

01:51:51.540 time and so people are now able to look at the microstructures of the brain in a way that hasn't

01:51:57.020 been possible before and so the old idea with the cortex basically was that cortex was full of

01:52:02.240 a bunch of neurons and then when one neuron and another fired at the same time they would wire

01:52:07.580 together and that's kind of how your brain learned to make connections it's a bit more complicated

01:52:13.060 than that but that will do and then it was found that it wasn't quite that simple because what your

01:52:19.160 cortex is made out of are these columns of neurons that are duplicated sort of like a like a centipede's

01:52:25.700 legs you know it's it's very simple genetic code to add another leg set of legs to a centipede it's

01:52:31.820 sort of like that with your brain it's made out of all these columns and the columns are basically

01:52:35.920 already quite wired up and then as you learn the columns wire together okay so there's some

01:52:42.500 pre-existent structure there but there's more pre-existent structure than what that was thought

01:52:46.880 so it's it's basically that there are already tracks that link columns together that are in

01:52:54.980 different parts of the brain and the columns can or the columns themselves can send out dendrites to

01:53:01.200 these super highways which are already there and then the super highway is there and then it can

01:53:06.800 generate connections to the columns at the end of the super highway so what that means is that

01:53:12.340 there's a tremendous amount of cortical structure already in place but there's plasticity around

01:53:17.180 that and when i read that i thought well that's part of the source of the archetypes there's already an

01:53:20.740 archetypal structure there that as well as the subcortical structures so you could say that like the kid

01:53:26.840 already had within him not only the capacity to represent not only the monster but the class of

01:53:34.320 all possible monsters and the fact that the problem wasn't monsters the problem was that monsters could

01:53:39.440 continually be generated which is a way worse problem and then the answer to that isn't to kill an

01:53:44.860 individual monster the answer to that is go to the source of the monstrous itself and defeat it

01:53:50.660 so it's absolutely staggering and you could imagine that it would take a tremendous amount of

01:53:55.480 meditative effort for people to have come up with that solution over a very long period of time

01:54:00.700 so now the point of the representation is to formulate a picture of what it is that's the threat

01:54:09.460 so that you can then formulate a general purpose solution and so there's this image of kelly which i

01:54:16.880 really like because kelly is sort of the goddess of the darkness let's say and destruction and so kelly is

01:54:22.520 she has a headdress of fire her hair is on fire and she has a headdress of skulls and she has hands 1.00

01:54:29.500 cut off all around her neck and she has a belt that's often snakes but is sometimes she's sometimes 0.93

01:54:36.080 eating the intestines of this guy that she's just given birth to and that she's sitting on she has 0.98

01:54:41.000 eight legs like a spider and she's in a web of fire and so she's a monster in some sense that represents 0.98

01:54:47.420 everything that might terrify and devour you and the question is so you you come up with that

01:54:53.600 representation as an image to represent the class of all terrifying things and then you have to

01:54:58.900 generate a solution in the face of that class and sacrifice is one of the solutions but that heroic

01:55:05.100 encounter is another one of the solutions and that's the one that he catalyzed now he'd been read

01:55:11.320 lots of books he'd watched lots of disney movies you know and and he'd seen the heroic pattern

01:55:17.600 portrayed many many places and his little brain was working like mad to extract out the essence of that

01:55:24.660 and to embody it and when i asked him that question it just went snap and all those things lined up and

01:55:31.220 his night terrors went away that was it and i followed up with his mom because it was really quite

01:55:36.960 remarkable the whole set of occurrences you know and he didn't have night terrors that night even

01:55:41.920 though he'd been having them nightly and that was the end of them because he'd solved his problem like

01:55:46.460 he needed to be the courageous knight that went after the dragon and so that is what people need to be

01:55:53.660 so i think when we go into solitude we shut off the external stimulation and we let the dreaming part of

01:56:04.600 our mind emerge and that's this non-verbal pattern detector that thinks in images and it's it's the

01:56:14.780 thing that mediates between what we don't understand and what we do understand like if you understand it

01:56:19.380 completely you can say it and you can act it out if you don't understand it you represent it in images

01:56:24.400 and there it's like it's the emotion fear withdrawal paralysis and then that manifests itself in an image

01:56:32.580 of what that might be and that image is the basis for the story and it's the basis for further

01:56:38.460 development of the idea and to go into isolation is to let those images emerge and to dream a little

01:56:44.820 bit and then that moves you that moves you ahead into the future so to use your language um that used

01:56:52.280 before it's it's not enough just to map out the danger that is imminent in front of you but all the

01:56:58.780 potential dangers that you could come up with in abstract form yeah well remember what happens

01:57:04.660 when god throws adam and eve out of out of paradise they become aware that they're going to die right

01:57:12.720 the future becomes a problem because you could say the future is the place of all potential monsters

01:57:18.620 right and so just the monster that you have right in front of you it's like yeah well you get rid of

01:57:23.360 that but that doesn't solve your problem does it the problem is how do you exist in a world full of

01:57:28.600 monsters and part of that answer is well you become a monster yourself that's a big part of the answer

01:57:34.900 but it's an incomplete answer because if you're just a monster then you're just as bad as the monsters

01:57:40.320 so you have to trans you have to be a monstrous enough to contend with the monsters but then you 1.00

01:57:45.800 have to be civilized enough so that you're not a monster yourself and that's more or less equivalent to

01:57:50.820 the union integration of the shadow so yep yep

01:57:56.640 hi dr peterson i've been wanting to ask you this uh for a while now since i started watching your

01:58:09.980 lectures um after i started reading a nietzsche's beyond good and evil i came upon a paragraph in his

01:58:17.960 chapter on scholars that really uh really bothered me it's actually bothers me to this day

01:58:23.680 he he talked about this kind of person like they were just a mirror like they stretched he said every

01:58:30.440 part of their skin basically to allow every new piece of information that they took on and that all

01:58:37.020 they ever were was just an instrument they were just a mirror and reflecting what they had learned

01:58:41.600 never actually having generated anything on their own and it's it's bothered me because i feel like in a

01:58:47.340 way it's sort of like it's it's it's impacted my identity a lot because i i don't know how are you

01:58:52.860 supposed to create something you know so okay well that's okay that that's a really good question i

01:58:58.720 mean nietzsche is often classed with the existentialists right and so one of the tenets of existentialism

01:59:05.120 there's two real tenets of existentialism there's more but obviously we're oversimplifying but

01:59:10.900 one is that life is a problem it isn't because there's something wrong with you it's that life is

01:59:17.920 a problem and so that's often contrasted with the freudian view which is that if you have a problem

01:59:23.700 it's because something went wrong during your development the existentialist said no no it's like

01:59:29.480 life is a problem make no mistake about it and that the purpose of

01:59:36.140 the purpose of scholarship is in some sense to solve that problem and so for nietzsche like he said

01:59:45.020 all truths are bloody truths to me and what he meant by that was that if an idea didn't incarnate

01:59:52.000 itself in you and transform your perceptions and your actions then you were merely possessed by the

01:59:58.000 idea you're merely a spokesperson for the idea or you could say that the idea possessed you you're a

02:00:03.600 puppet for the idea it's not you it's the idea is in you and it has you you haven't taken the idea and

02:00:11.360 incorporated it with you and made it part of your life and so there's a romanticism that's associated with

02:00:17.520 that right that's the passionate scholar the person for whom ideas are not merely they're not merely what

02:00:24.260 would you call abstracted representations that can be tossed about as if they're commodities

02:00:32.020 they're they're they're they're more like per they're more like personalities that might be another

02:00:36.800 way of thinking about it and so if you're if if those ideas are compelling then you don't

02:00:44.420 like one thing i learned a long time ago and i think this is probably relevant i know when i was a kid i

02:00:52.140 like to argue and i like to win arguments or or or lose them although i like winning them a lot better

02:00:58.540 but i didn't really mind so much what the content of the argument was you know i i could engage in it

02:01:05.360 like a sparring match and it was in some sense to establish dominance right to establish intellectual

02:01:11.160 dominance i quit doing that when i was in my mid-20s because i thought that that was too shallow

02:01:18.380 an approach to the ideas they they're not commodities of that sort they're they're they have tendrils

02:01:26.940 that reach down into the living that's the right way to think about it and so nietzsche's criticism of

02:01:32.420 scholars and he did this a lot was that they were bloodless you know they didn't they were full of

02:01:39.080 performative contradictions that's another way of thinking about they'd say one thing and do another

02:01:43.240 because their intellect was completely dissociated from their from their actions and he he he thought

02:01:49.980 that was a very bad idea and i think that that's a good criticism i think it is a bad idea i also think

02:01:56.920 it makes for an extraordinarily boring lecturer you know because you can tell if you're listening to

02:02:02.080 someone whether the ideas that you're hearing are merely being passed through the person as if they're

02:02:07.400 being memorized say or whether they're part of the dynamic core of the person and if they're part of

02:02:14.040 the dynamic core of the person then they're almost always engaging and gripping and so he wasn't a fan

02:02:20.280 of bloodless scholars and i think that's correct because one of the things that i see it's not a good

02:02:26.760 idea to have ideas possess you unless you know what the ideas are up to and lots of people are possessed

02:02:35.180 by ideas rather than possessing them and that what that means is they haven't taken the ideas and

02:02:39.700 integrated them into their own being they haven't it's like an incarnation in a sense they haven't

02:02:46.200 incarnated the ideas in in embodied form and and so they're incomplete you know nietzsche also in thus

02:02:54.940 spake zarathustra when zarathustra comes down the mountain he sees a bunch of people gathered around

02:03:00.020 a famous individual i think maybe a scholar but doesn't really matter and when zarathustra goes and looks

02:03:05.660 at the person all he sees is a little tiny midget with a gigantic ear and so he's a hyper specialist 0.96

02:03:11.460 right and so he has a pretty impressive ear but he's only this big and that was nietzsche's

02:03:16.980 imagistic commentary on the danger of hyper specialization and also on the danger of

02:03:22.000 adulation for hyper specialization and and because he thought about it as a kind of deformity

02:03:27.520 now nietzsche was a pretty harsh guy but um but he did address the issue of the relationship between

02:03:34.620 intellectual knowledge and and action because for nietzsche those things are not to be separated

02:03:40.840 in some sense so yeah so maybe i don't know why it maybe it bothered you like it's hard to say why

02:03:50.220 it bothered you it might have bothered you because it sort of undermined the idea of scholar but the

02:03:55.540 other possibility and this isn't an accusation because obviously i don't know anything about you but

02:03:59.460 it might also be that it struck a chord you know and that maybe you were doubtful or questioning

02:04:05.940 how tightly associated your intellectual endeavor was with your actual character and your practice

02:04:16.900 so that's another possibility i mean that's a really good thing to think about because generally

02:04:21.220 speaking that integration is it is very much lacking people are a lot smarter and fluid with their

02:04:27.480 ideas than they are ethical and consistent and characterized by integrity so yep

02:04:35.720 hey um so last week you talked about how you hated people asking you if you believe in god or do you

02:04:51.160 believe in miracles or you dislike those questions at least but you also talked about how and i won't

02:04:55.940 put words in your mouth but i think you said something about the idea of an empirical evidence

02:04:59.800 for religious experiences or spiritual experiences and i wonder how those two ideas like can a spiritual

02:05:06.660 existence or can a spiritual experience exist without god or how did i i had trouble who knows

02:05:12.820 who knows you know i don't know what i don't know what to make of that i mean you could it depends on

02:05:18.880 what you're willing to accept as proof i suppose that's where things get tricky you know if you have to

02:05:25.380 demonstrate the existence of god objectively then subjective experiences of the transcendent are

02:05:31.220 irrelevant right but and and that's a perfectly reasonable standpoint if your initial presupposition

02:05:38.600 is the only thing that has actual existence is those things that can be demonstrated objectively

02:05:43.740 and i'm not putting that down like that's a powerful methodology our technology is basically

02:05:49.600 dependent on the acceptance at least the partial acceptance of those axioms but i also think that

02:05:56.100 it's difficult for me to deny the existence of these patterns of thinking that seem to exist cross-culturally

02:06:05.860 like the existence of the representation of the dragon for example especially given that i can see an

02:06:12.920 evolutionary rationale for the emergence of these representations so and then there's also the

02:06:19.380 indisputable fact that religious experiences are accessible to people through a number of different avenues

02:06:28.380 now and one of the things i mentioned when i discussed this before is well you could say well those

02:06:34.760 are no different than experiences of psychopathology but they are different because the experiences of

02:06:41.420 psychopathology damage people whereas the evidence is that the transcendent experiences actually help

02:06:47.920 people so unless you can unless you're willing to say well there are some forms of psychopathological

02:06:53.240 experience that actually facilitate health which is a possibility but you know i think you're you're

02:06:59.580 pushing your hyper your hypothesis at that point would it hurt to define what a religious experience is in

02:07:04.940 this case then because i feel like the semantics like i'm not sure if what you're saying about a

02:07:09.420 religious experience is what i'm understanding well generally a religious experience is something like

02:07:15.800 um an experience of the of the renewal of the world that might be one way of of thinking about it so that

02:07:22.080 everything sort of leaps forward as crystalline and perfect as if you had been viewing it from behind

02:07:29.000 a mask before another would be a sense of the union of everything and so you're a singular being and you're

02:07:37.140 isolated and in the religious experiences so for example there's a book written recently by a

02:07:41.920 neuroscientist uh my stroke of what's it called my stroke of insight yeah that's right and i believe she

02:07:51.900 had a left hemisphere stroke if i remember correctly and she was a sufficiently well-developed neuroscientist to

02:08:01.600 understand what was happening as she had the stroke and and she had a intense religious experience as a consequence of that

02:08:09.960 and she experienced it as a dissolution of the ego into this state of union with everything and this

02:08:16.600 transcendent experience of awe and and the open well i don't remember the rest of it i mean there are other elements

02:08:23.900 of religious experience that are quite common the idea of the opening of the heavens

02:08:27.500 that's one the communion with the ancestors that's another the reduction of the body to a skeleton

02:08:34.020 that's another the movement up into heaven like these are well documented phenomena and a lot of them

02:08:40.860 are associated well a fair number of them are associated with psychedelic use but that's not the only avenue

02:08:46.760 to experiences like that and epilepsy can produce experiences like that too and and people usually report

02:08:53.120 a near-death experience as well you know people usually report that those experiences have life-altering

02:08:59.020 significance now that in and of itself only proves that people are capable of having subjective religious

02:09:06.780 experiences right it doesn't definitively prove that there's anything outside of that so jung carl jung for

02:09:14.600 example most of the time he didn't talk about god he talked about the god image which is not the same thing

02:09:21.540 because you could have a god image that was even evolutionarily instantiated without that necessarily being

02:09:27.580 rep related to any transcendent being beyond the image right so who knows who knows um again i think it depends

02:09:39.440 on what you're willing to accept as proof now the proof the this beyond question that people can have

02:09:47.880 life-changing religious experiences another example of that is that um the best treatment for alcoholism

02:09:54.160 is religious conversion it's well documented in the literature and i studied alcoholism for a long time

02:09:59.480 so one of the cures that sticks is religious conversion and the 12-step programs essentially attempt

02:10:06.580 to instantiate religious conversion and it's hard to document their success because they succeed

02:10:12.660 for the people who stick with it but that's not a very good measure right it's sort of it's sort of

02:10:19.260 self-evident that they work for the people who stick with it i'm not cynical about about alcoholics

02:10:25.260 anonymous or anything but we don't have good data on on outcome but there is good data showing that

02:10:31.660 religious transformation is a good cure for for alcoholism so and that's an interesting phenomena too 0.95

02:10:38.180 it's too complicated i probably can't okay i'll try i'll try this for a second so here's how i think

02:10:45.380 a religious conversion might work so imagine you've got the left hemisphere and it's the place where your

02:10:51.000 habitual interpretations reside so i can give you a quick example of this so this guy ramachandran who's

02:10:59.980 a neurophysiologist or i think that's his that's his field of study i think he's at ucla he studied

02:11:06.940 people who had neglect and neglect is a very very bizarre phenomena so if you have a stroke that

02:11:13.080 damages your right parietal lobe you'll lose the left part of your being not just your body it's

02:11:19.560 really weird it's like so for example if you have a right parietal stroke and you look at a clock you

02:11:26.380 only see you only only half the clock exists for you it's not like you only see half the clock it's

02:11:32.300 weirder than that it's that there's only the right side of the clock there's only the right side of

02:11:37.460 you there's only the right side of my body i don't know that this exists and so sometimes people with

02:11:43.600 right parietal damage will wake up after the stroke and grab their left arm and throw it out of bed and

02:11:49.700 or their leg and throw it out of bed because it's not theirs and then of course they fall out of bed

02:11:54.040 which is quite a shock to them so and so they'll only eat half the food on the plate nobody can

02:12:00.740 really understand this phenomenologically right because we can't imagine what that must be like

02:12:05.500 i think it must be like you know how you know there's things behind you but you don't not see them

02:12:11.860 they're just not there it's not like it's black or anything or there's a space it's just not there 0.95

02:12:17.380 and so i think what happens is the not there extends to three quarters of the field instead

02:12:23.500 of half the field that's a guess anyway so ramish now the funny thing about people with neglect is

02:12:30.760 that if you tell them if you point it out you say well i noticed that you're not moving your left

02:12:35.640 foot today they'll say well it's it's arthritic and i i can't move it and say well why don't you

02:12:41.920 just try to move it so no look doctor i already told you it's in too much pain to move it was working

02:12:45.680 fine this morning that can be months after the the accident so it's a denial and and people thought

02:12:51.980 actually that that was trauma induced denial for a long time before they figured it out was actually

02:12:56.440 a consequence of the neurophysiological damage now ramachandran found that if you irrigated the

02:13:03.460 contralateral ear say now if you pour cold water in someone's ear it upsets their vestibular system

02:13:12.140 and their eyes will move back and forth like this you can try that at a party if you want and

02:13:17.140 anyways ramachandran was testing vestibular function on these patients and he irrigated the right ear

02:13:24.180 with cold water and they woke up and maybe what happened was that that was shocking enough

02:13:31.000 so imagine the networks in the right hemisphere were degraded but not completely gone and they needed

02:13:37.060 a really high threshold of activation to snap into function so here's an example of that if you have

02:13:42.840 parkinson's disease imagine you're frozen there okay and i throw a ball at you you'll go like this

02:13:47.960 and catch it but you can't throw it back so you can the stimulus is enough that's enough to push you

02:13:56.300 past threshold but you can't do it voluntarily now if you have parkinson's like right to the nth degree 0.97

02:14:01.620 you won't even be able to catch it but there's a stage where you can still do that there's a great

02:14:05.840 case study where this grandpa was in a wheelchair he had parkinson's and his young grandson was playing

02:14:12.260 out on the dock and fell in the water and started to drown and he got out of his wheelchair went into

02:14:18.140 the ocean rescued him brought him onto the beach sat back down in his wheelchair and was paralyzed again

02:14:24.420 so that was enough so you can imagine there was enough network left so if the emotional

02:14:29.020 tension became high enough that the degraded circuits could still function

02:14:34.060 so okay so back to ramachandran so you irrigate the ear all of a sudden the right hemisphere

02:14:39.720 connections flash the remainders managed to connect and the person goes oh my god i've had a terrible

02:14:46.460 stroke i've lost the left side of my body they're crying they're like completely catastrophically

02:14:52.000 overwhelmed by it and then 20 minutes later the the effects wear off and they snap back in and

02:14:57.940 now they they've lost their left side again they don't remember it and so what seems to happen is

02:15:03.580 that the right hemisphere is collecting anomalous information that's what it does that's what it

02:15:11.760 does when you're dreaming it's it's it's it's representing that anomalous information in image form

02:15:18.420 and sort of slowly passing it to the left hemisphere so it doesn't overwhelm it and maybe if it gets

02:15:24.260 overwhelming you wake up and you're afraid and you tell someone about the dream that helps you figure

02:15:28.380 out what it was but anyways so that the right hemisphere is always trying to tap the left hemisphere

02:15:34.000 into transformation right so now imagine that that can happen a little bit or a lot so maybe you're just

02:15:43.780 ignoring a little bit of anomalous information you just have some mildly frightening dreams or maybe

02:15:49.520 you've just stacked up a whole bunch of things that you're ignoring and there's some major league

02:15:53.680 monsters that you haven't contended with maybe there's situations where the right hemisphere is

02:16:00.200 stored up enough counter enough of a counter hypothesis let's say about how the world works

02:16:07.480 make making sense out of all those things that you've ignored that one day it just goes snap

02:16:13.300 and you're a new personality and maybe the new personality isn't addicted so it's something like it's

02:16:21.360 something like that i think so yeah okay

02:16:26.080 good morning citizen peterson

02:16:35.800 i've got i've prepared a real doozy for you here oh good it's a good thing you've got extra time to

02:16:43.320 handle this one i'd even say it's rehearsed a little bit so it's going to be ultra ineffective you know

02:16:48.860 okay okay now i understand that a lecture on the psychological significance of anything really

02:16:57.620 is going to indubitably is going to indubitably wander off into an anthropocentric world view

02:17:02.620 but as a practitioner of the hard sciences i wanted to dig a little bit deeper you know so i sought out

02:17:13.000 i guess a religious interpretation of both creative freedom and i guess the very nature of time itself

02:17:23.060 and i found it obviously that's why i'm here

02:17:27.300 and if you think you have an anthropocentric world view it's nothing compared to joseph cardinal ratzinger's

02:17:34.820 you know

02:17:35.800 now i like to think that you know this microphone here

02:17:41.220 the one that you keep muting out on me

02:17:43.940 you know this microphone is an object which exists outside of our individual perceptions

02:17:49.920 that's just the way i like to look at it but then i think about the concept beauty is in the eye of

02:17:56.560 the beholder and certainly i mean when you're talking about art the appreciation of art there

02:18:03.680 has to be some sort of subjective element integrated into that but there also must be a limit as well

02:18:11.280 i mean certain works of art that we appreciate as absolute masterpieces like michelangelo's pieta for

02:18:19.680 example which you bring up frequently because it really is that good but there's other things

02:18:25.520 which are just by comparison they're like vandalism you know um now there's always a temptation

02:18:34.400 all right to invoke the principle of a non-overlapping magisteria but that seems like sort of a cop-out

02:18:42.720 right so i formulated i guess for myself four standards of measure which help me separate what's

02:18:48.720 the difference between art and mediocrity and uh here's the four number one education

02:18:57.040 number two time commitment you got to put in the time if you're an artist it's probably going to

02:19:02.800 become your full-time occupation it's that you have to be that passionate about it number three public

02:19:08.640 display art isn't something that you own for yourself you hide it in your basement then it's not

02:19:14.480 art it's something which you have to express you know something which you've got to share and number

02:19:19.760 four and i think this is the most important one

02:19:24.880 efficacy of vision if you're an artist you've got to have a vision and we talk about the dream state

02:19:31.360 here a lot you go into the dream state you have inspiration but it's not enough to just have the

02:19:36.640 inspiration because that's totally subjective for you the art the art part about it is having the

02:19:43.440 techniques and the skill and the intent and i guess the capacity to turn that into something real

02:19:49.120 you know that you can then express or share so can you read cardinal ratzinger's explanation

02:19:55.840 for the nature of time and then address the concept of beauty in the eye of the beholder

02:20:01.200 with specific reference to the body positivity movement how

02:20:09.920 jesus

02:20:14.400 you don't have to be a mouthpiece

02:20:28.400 i don't think i can

02:20:29.520 i think i think

02:20:40.320 i think that's

02:20:45.440 i think i think that you you tangled together so many things and this is also a tangle of things

02:20:53.120 not that that's a criticism that i can't pull them all together with sufficient rapidity not to bore

02:21:00.000 the audience to death so i'm gonna i'm gonna wait i'm gonna wait

02:21:06.800 okay dr peterson um i'm fascinated by the idea of faith uh what faith means uh jacob listens to a

02:21:17.360 voice and believes it um he probably heard other voices why did he believe this one um why what

02:21:27.840 there must have been an a priori sort of functional necessity for him to believe the voice that told him

02:21:36.880 one thing or another and and i think that that's a string that runs through the bible and then through

02:21:41.600 the new testament um we are expected as well i confess i'm a christian i'm i act like i believe

02:21:47.840 god is real and and so there is this uh a call of faith and also the in in every hero's story we we

02:21:56.720 see now there is always a moment in that story where the hero must believe something beyond the

02:22:04.080 evidence that is before them which is to say they must take a leap of faith so i'm wondering if you

02:22:08.480 could you just kind of unpack that experience of faith and the understanding of how a human being

02:22:13.680 makes the choice to believe one thing or another god that's a great question i mean uh is this still

02:22:20.160 on is this still working okay okay good um i don't i don't precisely know the answer to that it's it's a

02:22:30.720 very peculiar thing because we think many things or you could say many voices appear in our minds

02:22:36.720 because when nietzsche took descartes i think therefore i am a part and he said well it isn't

02:22:42.240 so obvious that there's an eye first of all that it's a unity like a no a try a unity transparent

02:22:48.880 unto itself which of course the psychoanalysts picked up in a big way and then he wasn't sure

02:22:53.600 that it was the eye who thought in some causal manner he said well no it's more like thoughts it's

02:22:59.680 something like thoughts appear in the phenomenal field and maybe you choose between them or maybe they

02:23:04.880 possess you like there's lots of other ways of thinking about it it isn't exactly obvious to me

02:23:09.680 why we choose to take one pathway rather than another when so many of them could offer themselves

02:23:17.920 to us you know people tend to talk about that as something like conscience right and now maybe it's

02:23:25.440 that it's got to have something to do i think it's an endless regress because you can always ask why

02:23:33.280 the why any assumption became primary but i'll put that aside for a moment it seems to me to have

02:23:39.760 something to do with your aims you know that you're more likely to listen to a voice that is in keeping with

02:23:49.280 your most fundamental aims and then the question is where do your most fundamental aims come from and

02:23:55.360 from what i've been able to determine and i'll speak psychologically again is that to begin with

02:24:00.960 you're a concatenation of rather primitive sub-personalities hungry ones tired ones upset

02:24:07.920 ones laughing ones you can see that in babies you know they cycle through those states very rapidly

02:24:12.480 there's a uh infantile unity above all that but it doesn't have control right and so

02:24:20.160 then the developing individual has to figure out how to integrate those

02:24:24.880 primitive sub-personalities into a unified personality at the same time they integrate the

02:24:31.280 unified personality into a social unity so it's partly individual integration but it's fed by social

02:24:41.280 forces i mean even when you watch a an infant breastfeed it's established a relationship with

02:24:47.840 its mother and there's a reciprocity that's already at play there so then that underlying multiplicity

02:24:55.120 starts to form itself into a unity and then the question and i would say that's something like

02:25:01.440 that's something like the emergence of the the individual out of out of the the titans that's a

02:25:08.080 reasonable way of thinking about it like a sovereign out of the titans it's something like that

02:25:13.680 but then there's another division which seems to me to parallel parallel the the cain-enabled

02:25:19.760 division is that that integration can be oriented towards something that's positive but it can also

02:25:24.560 be oriented towards something that's negative and that's the split of the world into good and evil i

02:25:30.880 think and then it looks like you're navigating between those and i can only account for that

02:25:35.920 with something like choice like i think the free choice even though i don't understand it

02:25:41.840 i'm unwilling to deny the existence of free choice merely because i don't understand it because it

02:25:48.080 looks to me like that's how people act that's how they expect to be treated and that societies who

02:25:54.560 that structure themselves in accordance with the idea that people have free choice actually work now

02:26:00.640 that doesn't prove that there's free choice but people have been arguing about that forever so

02:26:05.600 but it looks to me so those are two possible means of integration and then i think what you're doing is

02:26:12.080 feeding one or the other constantly and i think you probably choose which one to feed i think that's

02:26:19.360 and i mean that's how it feels that way to me as well like when i look at my own you know

02:26:24.240 maybe you're really aggravated with something maybe you're aggravated with your wife you know

02:26:30.480 or or or your child or something like that you know and you're feeling kind of nasty and maybe even

02:26:37.280 know that you're in the wrong and an idea comes into your head you think i could say that

02:26:42.480 and you know you could say it and you know what it would do but then you pause and you think

02:26:48.960 would that make it better or worse and then maybe you go to hell with it which is 0.81

02:26:52.960 quite the thing to say i've got a little story about that in a minute and then you say it but

02:26:58.640 you knew you knew that you took the low road right and you know it and then you're guilty about that

02:27:05.360 and defensive and that makes the fight way worse because then there's no damn way you're going to

02:27:09.120 admit that you actually did that and so things do go to hell and so so here's here's an ugly little idea 0.52

02:27:16.960 so that's that's that's relevant to the question so imagine you're playing around with cocaine

02:27:25.600 now i'm using cocaine because it's very addictive but it's a very interesting chemical because

02:27:30.720 it's a dopaminergic agonist and what what dopamine does is two things it makes you feel

02:27:36.560 like what you're doing is worthwhile but it also imagine that there's a bunch of neural circuits that

02:27:42.240 are active and then they get a hit of dopamine or you do then those neural circuits get a little

02:27:47.680 bit more powerful okay so it it has a rewarding property which is that it makes you feel like what

02:27:54.240 you're doing is important and it has a reinforcing property which is it makes neural circuits grow so

02:28:01.680 now what that means is that whatever you were doing just before you took cocaine grows

02:28:08.160 okay so now imagine there's a bunch of different things that you do just before you take cocaine

02:28:14.800 but there's a string of decisions and at one decision point is the same for all of those

02:28:20.320 different occurrences and that decision point is because you know you're in trouble and that decision

02:28:25.200 point is well to hell with it okay so then you think that each of the 200 times that you take cocaine

02:28:33.600 even though you do it in different places but that one thought is there all the time and that

02:28:38.480 thing grows because you're reinforcing it and it grows and it grows and it grows and so now that's in

02:28:44.320 you that's that's part of you and it's the thing that says to hell with it okay so now and maybe that's not

02:28:51.840 such a good thing to grow inside your brain so then you you're addicted and they take you to a cocaine

02:28:57.920 treatment center and after a week you're no longer physically physiologically addicted you're not

02:29:03.360 craving you don't have a problem as long as you're there but then they take you back to your normal

02:29:09.040 environment and you see like cocaine joe your friend and as soon as you see him up that thing comes and

02:29:16.320 bang you're back on the you're back on the to hell with the track and that's where you're in well 0.54

02:29:22.800 you're where you will end up too if you reinforce that particular perspective long enough so that's

02:29:30.560 akin in a sense to the this decision making process you know if you if you take the low road then that

02:29:37.280 wins and it gets a little stronger because everything that wins neurologically gets a little stronger it's

02:29:44.720 like a darwinian competition so one rule is don't practice what you don't want to become because you

02:29:51.120 really do become that it builds it builds itself right into your neural architecture and that's

02:29:56.880 one of the terrifying things about addiction you know because you think well it's kind of

02:30:00.000 psychological it's like yeah kind of it's also kind of neurophysiological and you build a one-eyed

02:30:06.160 cocaine monster in your head if you hit yourself enough with something that reinforcing so yeah

02:30:21.120 last question i guess hallelujah um just a really simple question then about take that

02:30:30.080 long suffering so when it one of the things that was noticing from the stories of jacob and a lot of

02:30:36.560 these biblical narratives is you do have this all-powerful god who's able to kind of

02:30:42.640 essentially be the hidden protagonist in the narrative but then the funny thing is that he's kind of

02:30:48.720 revealing some of his qualities throughout the course of the story so you were talking about

02:30:54.160 the weird paradox of the fact that god somehow allows jacob israel to win the fight and he does

02:31:01.520 that with abraham too yeah so my question is relating to pansept's thing about the rats that you told like

02:31:08.000 three or four times on the number of occasions i saw one of your recent videos you talked about it

02:31:12.080 where the bigger rat lets the smaller rat win because then the other the smaller rat won't engage in the

02:31:16.880 game so the question is is twofold for me one is god allowing humanity to win periodically so that's

02:31:24.320 to allow us to actually engage in the dialogue through these stories and two is it a much more

02:31:30.480 primitive version of the virtue of humility which you wouldn't normally characterize of an

02:31:36.560 of an omnipotent deity well those are excellent questions that's i really like the second one in

02:31:43.200 particular that that that god's decision to allow human victory from time to time is actually a

02:31:50.080 manifestation of something approximating humility or at least mercy but humility is an interesting

02:31:56.080 take on it well it's also connected to paul's image of how christ hand hands himself over and allows

02:32:03.920 himself to be defeated by men and therefore conquer sin which is man's enemy it's a weird it's the same

02:32:10.800 paradox where god enters into that dynamic with people and loses and willingly loses yeah well that's a

02:32:20.160 okay so the first thing i would say is that that's a really interesting analogy i i i can't it's

02:32:28.320 complicated enough questions so that i can't go beyond i don't think i can go beyond the question

02:32:34.000 actually because it's so complicated that i don't think i can formulate it any better than you already did

02:32:38.640 like it's an interesting string of ideas i'd have to play with it a while to see it does shed an

02:32:45.120 interesting light on why god is amenable to negotiation in the old testament which is really

02:32:51.760 a strange as you pointed out it's really a strange thing it's like this is omnipotent god who obviously

02:32:57.120 can do whatever he wants and yet he allowed he can be bargained with and that also opens up the

02:33:03.360 question of why like your hypothesis is well if you don't let the little rat win now and then then

02:33:08.400 they get dejected and and quit playing and that's i mean that's that's a pretty good observation if

02:33:13.520 people don't get to win now and then you know they that's kind of what happens to cain god says well

02:33:19.680 you're not playing a straight game that's why you're not winning but there's an intimation in

02:33:24.720 the old testament and i think it's more developed in the new testament maybe not that the straighter the

02:33:30.080 game you play the more likely you are to win and so maybe part of the reason that god lets abraham

02:33:38.320 bargain and and even jacob is because they've started to play very straight games and so maybe

02:33:44.640 you do win in your wrestling with god if you play a straight game i mean i think that's i actually think

02:33:50.080 that's i think the reason that's true is because that's actually why we would define it as a straight

02:33:55.600 game now then we could speak psychologically again i think that what we've come to recognize

02:34:01.840 as a straight game is the game that in the broadest number of situations across the widest range of

02:34:08.880 time spans is most likely to produce a positive outcome and that's that's actually the grounds for

02:34:14.800 our sense of ethics that it's really practical not to belabor it too much because there was there

02:34:20.160 was an interesting insight from chesterton's the man who was thursday where god sets himself up as

02:34:25.520 the benevolent antagonist so as to accelerate the game yeah well i think that's a really interesting

02:34:34.160 idea i mean there is there is hints i would say throughout the biblical stories that the reason

02:34:41.520 that god tolerates satan let's say is because without an adversary you're soft

02:34:47.760 yeah and that's i mean that's tied in with the notion that life is something like a moral struggle

02:34:54.320 you know that that's the fundamental essence of being a moral struggle now it i think that that's

02:34:59.840 phenomenologically uh a reasonable observation maybe it's maybe other people don't experience it that

02:35:05.840 way but it seems to me like within my own experience that that's accurate now i don't know what again

02:35:11.920 i don't know what that says about the fundamental nature of reality but i had a vision at one point

02:35:17.680 that i was in a ring with satan actually uh believe it or not and um it was like a roman coliseum

02:35:27.680 and you know i was rather upset to find myself there but i won and i asked god afterwards why he

02:35:37.040 would do such a thing and his answer was he knew i could win that's interesting you know because like i

02:35:44.960 i don't know what to make of that believe me i have no idea what to make of that but the idea was that

02:35:51.280 if you're trying to encourage someone rather than protect them because those are really different

02:35:56.800 things right to protect someone isn't to make them strong to encourage them is to make them strong

02:36:01.600 then you set them a series of challenges right right at the point where they may win

02:36:10.160 and maybe you could make a case that that's what you do if you really care for someone now i know

02:36:16.160 that that's it i'm not saying that that interpretation is correct i'm not i'm not but but there's something

02:36:23.600 i mean you definitely with your children you know when you're wrestling with them say when you're playing

02:36:28.160 with them you use you push them to the limit of their ability because otherwise they don't

02:36:36.400 transcend their current abilities yep

02:36:44.240 if you found this conversation meaningful you might think about picking up dad's books maps of

02:36:48.640 meaning the architecture of belief or his newer bestseller 12 rules for life an antidote to chaos

02:36:54.480 both of these works delve much deeper into the topics covered in the jordan b peterson podcast

02:36:59.760 see jordanbpeterson.com for audio ebook and text links or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller

02:37:05.920 remember to check out jordanbpeterson.com slash personality for information on his new course

02:37:11.120 which is now 50 off i hope you enjoyed this podcast if you did please let a friend know or leave a review

02:37:18.080 next week's episode is a continuation of the biblical series and is titled joseph and the code of many

02:37:23.680 colors talk to you next week follow me on my youtube channel jordan b peterson on twitter at jordan b

02:37:31.600 peterson on facebook at dr jordan b peterson and at instagram at jordan.b.peterson details on this show

02:37:40.960 access to my blog information about my tour dates and other events and my list of recommended books

02:37:47.520 can be found on my website jordanbpeterson.com my online writing programs designed to help people

02:37:54.400 straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a sophisticated vision

02:37:59.840 and strategy for the future can be found at self-authoring.com that's self-authoring.com

02:38:06.480 from the westwood one podcast network

02:38:17.440 in today's chaotic world many of us are searching for a way to aim higher and find spiritual peace

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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - July 12, 2020

127. Biblical Series： A Wrestling with God

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