Dr. Jordan B. Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety. We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling. With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way. In his new series, he provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn t easy, it s absolutely possible to find your way forward. If you re suffering, please know you are not alone. There s hope, and there s a path to feeling better. Go to Dailywireplus.me/jordanbpeterson and start watching Season 4, Episode 1 of the Jordan Peterson Podcast on Depression and Anxiety. This episode is brought to you by Helix, the place I haven t spoken about in ages. I love this mattress, and I m here to give you some good salesy stuff. Can t sleep because 2021 didn t magically fix 2020? Toss and turn because aliens might be a thing now? That s all I ve got for you. Helix is offering up to $200 off all your mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners at helixsleep. That s a deal that s better than the last deal you ve ever heard of. And given GQ s interview with dad, we know how trustworthy they are, we ll even give you the best overall mattress pick of the year. Thanks you can t sleep on it. This episode also comes with a 10 year warranty and a 10-year warranty, so you ll get to try it out for 100 nights risk-free and a $200 discount, and you ll even pick it up for $200 and two pillows and two FREE pillows. You can t do everything you ve got in the world, right? Thanks to Smart Asset, Smart Asset Smart Asset is also bring you by Smart Asset. Smart Asset helps you find a financial advisor that s a 15% up to 15% more than the average person you can do it all the last time you spend 15% in the last five years, right up to save 15% of the last week. But that s $5,000, right, smart Asset Smart. That s the deal you think you ll do it right, right?! Smart Asset? You can do everything in the first half of the world.
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00:09:12.800So let's start with, well, we can start with whatever you want to start with, but let's start with the book, I think.
00:09:18.340Tell me why you wrote it, and when you wrote it, and what you want people to know about it.
00:09:26.680Yeah, so I've been keeping journals since I was 14 years old.
00:09:30.840And so I guess starting 15 years ago, I always carried this treasure chest full of the journals I'd been keeping, and they were filling up that treasure chest.
00:09:42.940And I would take it with me to any place that we went for an extended amount of time, put it over there to the right of my proverbial desk, and go, have it there.
00:09:49.900Because if you get the itch and you get some time, I dare you to go in that treasure chest and see what's in there.
00:09:56.360Well, I've threatened to open up that treasure chest and see what those journals held for the past 15 years.
00:10:01.360Didn't have the courage really to open it up.
00:10:04.460Didn't want to make the time to go in there because I was intimidated of looking back at 50 years or however many years of my life.
00:10:12.800I'm not one for really liking to look back over my shoulder.
00:10:16.100I'm somebody who likes to, you know, I'm still someone who rather enjoys making the sandwich more than eating it.
00:10:21.220I like making my movies more than I even like watching them.
00:10:23.660I like doing things, moving on, and heading forward.
00:10:27.940Well, you must have had some idea, too, when you were making those journals, at least in principle, that you owed an obligation to yourself at some point to look back over them.
00:10:36.740And I can see that that would be intimidating because you're creating a task for yourself, a task of reconsideration and contemplation, I suppose.
00:10:46.980Well, my excuse was, oh, when I die, Camillo, open them up, and if there's something worth sharing, she'll do it.
00:10:56.260Which was an excuse in martyrdom, you know, if there's something worth it.
00:11:04.680Consciously, I didn't think about 50 as a number of a time to be retrospective, but I had some time on my hands, and I had read an article in the New York Times that a young man had written, and I liked the article.
00:11:19.740In a way that it was the first article I read where he had weaved all different times of my career life into a thread instead of sort of like saying, he was this then, and now he's this, and this then, and now he's this.
00:11:33.300So he'd strung them all together, and I liked his style of writing, and I asked him to come on and be a ghostwriter for a book.
00:11:41.740We thought it was going to be a book, a little hardback book that you could put on the back of the toilet that every college kid could take to school and could open it up any page, maybe read a truthism or a bumper sticker or something and have a little aspiration to head about their day.
00:11:57.160Well, the New York Times pulled him off because evidently they weren't allowing the writers to work with celebrities.
00:12:01.860And just as he got pulled off, and I was in the room in my office with Camilla, my wife, I said, oh, I think I need to find a new ghostwriter.
00:12:10.860And I stopped at the same time she stopped, and she said, you know what this means.
00:12:16.320I went, yeah, I do know what it means, which is I need to go off and write it myself.
00:12:20.780So she said, I packed up all the journals.
00:12:24.780She said, don't come back until you got something.
00:12:27.160And I headed off with 15 gallons of water.
00:12:31.780I don't know how many pounds of red meat and my favorite libation.
00:12:58.660And I feared seeing an arrogant little SOB that I was in the past.
00:13:03.240And I crossed all those things in looking back at my last 50 years.
00:13:07.980But what I noticed was that a lot of things I thought I'd be embarrassed about, I giggled at.
00:13:13.100A lot of things I thought I'd be ashamed about, I had already forgiven myself for or now forgave myself for.
00:13:19.440And a lot of the times where I was an arrogant little SOB, what I realized is that if I wasn't the arrogant little SOB at that time, I may not have had the confidence to put myself in a situation to get absolutely humiliated and humbled.
00:14:03.380I had a big stack of stories, a big stack of people, a big stack of places, a big stack of prescribes, a big stack of poems, prayers, and bumper stickers.
00:15:59.500And so there's nothing negative about that.
00:16:01.680But feeling that you had taken that as far as it could be taken productively and creatively and then took a risk of really being bounced out of the system.
00:16:12.940I mean, one of the things I think that people perhaps don't understand about a society or a situation as intensely competitive as Hollywood is that it's virtually impossible to be successful there.
00:16:26.820And the probability that you'll fail, even if you are successful, is extremely high because the competition is beyond belief.
00:17:23.300Trip out was to the desert for the first 12 days, and that was basically to see what I had.
00:17:28.080And I came back from that feeling like I had something that was that was personal that might be worthy of being between, you know, two, two hardback covers.
00:17:40.840I remember writing early on going, OK, now you're going to have a lot of people that are going to buy this book, even if it's the words are crap on the page because of who you are.
00:17:52.760And I said, you're going to have a lot of people who are not going to purchase this book, even if what you put on the page was awesome, because you're Matt McConaughey.
00:18:00.020So I remember saying to myself, one of the first things I wrote down, I was like, the words on the page need to be worthy of being put on the page if they were signed by anonymous.
00:18:09.800But at the same time, need to be words that only Matt McConaughey could have written.
00:18:14.440And that was sort of my little bubble gone, because this is not about you've read.
00:18:19.420No, in fact, there's very little in it that's celebrity like.
00:18:23.600I was actually struck by how infrequently you made reference to your to to the milieu that that that you inhabited while you were while while you've been pursuing your career as an actor.
00:18:36.200There's there's no celebrity gossip in it.
00:18:38.440It's very it's it's it's family centered and very intimate.
00:18:42.520I actually I actually wanted it left me wanting to know more about your career.
00:18:49.080And so we can also talk about that today, flesh that out.
00:18:53.000But so that was quite remarkable for, you know, a celebrity memoir, let's say it's a terrible way of phrasing it.
00:19:00.440A memoir by someone who happens to be a celebrity.
00:19:17.160So I was like, OK, I think I got something.
00:19:18.820And then I'd come back, handle my honey dues at home, get everything back, make sure I didn't fall too much in the deficit of being a father and a husband back home.
00:19:26.040And then as soon as I could head off again, I was fortunate to have a wife who was like, get out of here each time.
00:19:33.560You know, when I came to tell how, you know, the first the first 12 days were like a purge.
00:19:38.420I mean, I came back and no family like saw me.
00:19:46.920Gone back and looked at 50 years of my life and had them down and all of a sudden was crying.
00:19:50.760There was a joy of this love story that I was seeing and to face certain things that I looked at in the past or forgot in the past or thought I forgot, but noticed that actually I'd remembered was all.
00:20:21.140And then the next year and a half was basically editing it.
00:20:25.280It and, you know, I didn't have as many of the stories in there early, which I would say served as sort of the narrative backbone throughout that string the whole piece together.
00:21:38.000Telling them as long as they had a vitality that they felt active, which they felt like they were.
00:21:42.540And then I had that that that thing that is so obvious when you say it, but it didn't seem obvious to me at the time, which was the more personal I got, the more I started to notice that it was probably more relatable.
00:21:55.460The more into the eye that I went subjective, the more I noticed that, oh, it's actually relatable to more of the human condition.
00:22:22.680What would you say without undo editing the African story, for example, the dream story, that's quite that was quite remarkable for me.
00:22:29.580That was a highlight of the book, I would say, where you related the dream you had, a recurring dream, or at least one that recurred twice.
00:22:36.660And and on the basis of that dream voyage to South America and to Africa.
00:22:44.620The second time I had the dream, which was the exact same dream, 11 frames, 11 seconds.
00:22:50.720The second time I had it is when I chased down the first half of the dream, which was South America.
00:22:54.880I thought I'd finish it in five years after that, I had the dream for the third time, which made me say, oh, I got to chase down the second half, which was their African tribes been on the banks of the river to the left.
00:23:08.300I mean, you staked a lot on the pursuit of a dream.
00:23:11.980And I mean, maybe we could say that's the motif of your book that you staked a lot on the pursuit of a dream, but it's much more concrete in that episode.
00:23:20.480You had an actual dream, a literal nighttime dream that recurred.
00:23:24.800And as a consequence of that, you you took a large risk or a series of risks.
00:23:29.980Merely going to Africa was a risk, I would say, and not something that would be expected.
00:23:34.960It's quite out of the ordinary to do that, obviously.
00:23:37.640Well, I've never had, I've had dreams that are similar to each other, but I've never, it's the only dream I've ever had that one was so specifically, I mean, it was exact.
00:23:48.500When I say 11 frames, I mean like film frames, picture one, two, three, or 11 seconds.
00:23:55.360The exact same frames, exact same editing sequence in my mind, 11 seconds that ended in such a, I don't know if ironic's the right way word, ended, it was the elements of a nightmare, but it was the opposite of a nightmare.
00:26:11.320And so that may enable you to exist in a way that would be much unlike the manner in which you have to exist where people know where you are or who you are.
00:27:08.360How many of those I love you's or mint or how many of them were just following because I just had a big box office hit?
00:27:13.140And wait a minute, the person that I've had dinner with their kids and spent Christmases with who have shared I love you's and hugs, then now I have two movies that didn't do well and that person won't return my call.
00:28:09.800Yeah, well, I could see in the book that you were snapping yourself out of your fame, even while you were doing things like the motorhome adventures, because you were living a life that certainly wasn't what I expected to read.
00:28:23.240That you would voluntarily abandon what so many people value as, like, the pinnacle of cultural achievement, say, at the popular level, and shed all that and set out, like, any person who doesn't have that.
00:28:48.480Well, what I was, like, for instance, in the South American trip, and it happened in the Molly trips and all the walkabouts, it was, I needed to go to a place where nobody, I had just become famous, too.
00:29:03.080I mean, my world was, like, all of a sudden, all the options were mine, and two days before, none of those options were there.
00:29:10.480And now it was a world of yes, and I'm going, I only got 24 hours in a day, and I would do any of this work, and you're now telling me I can do it all?
00:29:17.600I mean, you're asking me to be discerning right now?
00:29:20.860And, again, I went away to go, I need to go where someone doesn't know my name.
00:29:25.400I need to go away where no one's seen my movies.
00:29:30.180I want to go where there's no electricity.
00:29:31.660I want to go someplace where those hugs and tears, when I say goodbye 22 days later, are based only off of the man they met 22 days ago.
00:29:40.000Well, you managed to abandon them, too.
00:29:43.840One of the problems with being famous is, and I suspect this is particularly the case with the kind of fame that you have, is that it must be very difficult to distinguish between people wanting something from you and people enjoying your company and liking you.
00:29:59.840And it might even be difficult for them to distinguish between those things, because fame is a very difficult thing to deal with, even as an onlooker, even as a family member.
00:30:11.940You wrote about your mom's reaction, for example.
00:31:35.160You know, I, I got through enough time where I felt stable enough in my career that I was like, her loose lips aren't going to sink my ship.
00:31:45.000And actually, I let her know the reins.
00:31:47.020And as soon as I said, you go, mom, here's the mic, hit that red carpet line.
00:32:16.340So I just had to kind of block her out for a certain amount of time that ended up being eight years until I was stable enough to go, go for it.
00:32:25.260You know, all through that time, she didn't love me less.
00:32:29.840She just loved me in a new, different way, as well as being her son.
00:32:32.960What I was needing was just, I needed her to double down on being a mom to me, where instead of, she didn't double down, she didn't even cut it in half.
00:32:41.040She kind of was really wanting to know about the fame part.
00:32:44.880And I remember telling her things like, well, you keep wanting to come out here and see me, but what if I was an accountant in Chicago?
00:32:49.820Would you want to come see me as much?
00:32:51.220And my two brothers were like, you don't want to come see us as much.
00:34:58.060You play a dark role, and it invades you.
00:35:00.000But it isn't obvious to me how you can play a dark role without it invading you.
00:35:04.580And then, or at least you have to allow something dark in yourself to come out and respond to that.
00:35:10.760And you're very different on the screen playing Rustin Cole than you are in a romantic comedy role, clearly.
00:35:18.880And it's somewhat surprising to see that transition, which I guess is why other people might be surprised by that too, which is why you actually had a bit of a hiatus when you stopped taking rom-com roles.
00:35:31.820But I'm curious, like, what did it, what were the consequences for you of playing that character in particular, but dark characters in general?
00:35:40.280The dark characters, the baddie, usually has so much more identity than the white knight, than the hero in stories that I read in scripts and things.
00:36:00.640The dark characters, and they're also, they're always usually outsiders.
00:36:09.660And I, the consequences that I'm really going to portray one of those well in that part of myself, I'm putting myself on an island.
00:36:19.360And I love, and I'm, and that excites me.
00:36:22.500I want it to be, I want to feel like the underdog.
00:36:25.380I want to feel like I don't have to pander to manners or graces.
00:36:31.280And not even to prove a point, but just to say in a Rustin Cole's position, someone who just, you know, I didn't make big acting choices with Rustin Cole.
00:36:41.520I just did what I could to understand the text so well that I could just say it and not have to solicit it.
00:36:48.380Or again, Rustin Cole was a guy who preferred his own company to anyone else's.
00:36:55.680And, and, and, and, and, and that solidity.
00:36:57.100That was a vacation for me also to, as a person who is a believer, to have to, to, to, to be in a, in a, in a, inhabit a character who is not a believer at all.
00:37:09.580Um, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I've always thought this was odd.
00:37:18.340But at the time that I chose and wanted to go and inhabit Rustin Cole was the time that my faith was strongest.
00:37:26.220And if my faith would have been as strong, I might've been a little more fearful of going so deep into this man's mind, spirit, and ethos.
00:37:37.620And so you had some protection, but, but I trust very nihilistic, the character Cole, he's, he reminds me, there's a philosopher in South Africa, who's an anti-natalist.
00:37:48.820Um, unfortunately, his name escapes me for a moment.
00:37:52.600I, I had a debate with him a couple of years ago, but his basic premise is that.
00:37:57.740Conscious suffering is so morally untenable as a phenomenon that all life should cease.
00:38:06.980And if we were making the proper moral choices, we'd stop reproducing.
00:38:10.840But not only that, that we'd, we'd also do what we could.
00:38:14.840Well, we can leave it at that, that we'd stop reproducing because if you sum up a life, it's, it's bitter and, and the bitterness overwhelms the sweet.
00:38:55.260That's the strange thing, you know, and I felt too, I mean, I can certainly understand the argument.
00:39:00.920I, I, I, I hear it and I, and it adds up, but if that's inevitable, which I think we can all say that's inevitable.
00:39:10.980It's like, we're on the way to dying. It's over. What's that? We don't, we'll never know if this is the end or not.
00:39:16.240So hell, you know, or, or, or if there's anything after it and it is, it's hardships and overcome.
00:39:21.200Okay. Since that's inevitable and we got to do this thing anyway, if we're choosing to stay in life another day.
00:39:27.300So what's a better way to go about it? Say that it's all for nothing or realizing right there when you go, it's all for nothing. No, that's why the fuck can it's all for everything.
00:39:35.660Yeah. Well, it also seems to me that if your objection to life is it's suffering, adopting an attitude that will make that suffering worse is probably not a reasonable solution.
00:39:51.340And that's, that's where that grounds out for me. There's no construction in there. What, what, what, what, I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing affirmative or like giving a bath.
00:40:02.420It's not making the best of the situation if the situation's doonday. So, you know, I'm not for Hallmark cards and, and delusional optimism, but I mean, and, and in this way, I would say optimism is survival.
00:40:14.260It's like, well, okay, if it's all for nothing.
00:40:17.000I think optimism is courage. If it's not naive. And one of the things I liked about your book too, was that your optimism wasn't naive.
00:40:26.960And, you know, cause you had enough harsh experiences so that any naive optimism would have vanished.
00:40:35.020Even your, even your, the way you grew up. I mean, it wasn't traumatic, but it wasn't, it wasn't, uh, it had its harshness about it.
00:40:44.220Sure. Yeah. It was, it was immediate. It was physical. The same hands that hugged are the same hands that could harm.
00:40:52.080Yes. And you all, there was also very little sign of, and maybe none, no sign of bitterness about that.
00:40:58.160And, and, and no sign. I didn't think of any excuses for it either. Like when you portrayed your father, like you said, he was a man who could hug and hit and both of them were meant and they weren't casual.
00:41:11.600I never got the impression from, from your book that your father's actions were casual, his physical altercations with you and, and your brothers.
00:41:20.700Um, it was a different, it's a different ethos. That's not an ethos that's well understood today, I would say, or one that's, that's ever appreciated.
00:41:28.260And I didn't, I suppose that's because of its harshness, but I didn't detect any sign of bitterness from you emanating towards that.
00:41:36.440No, and I, and I, and I have, I have none. Um, while I choose to maybe give consequences to my children in different ways than my father and mother did, um, there was absolutely no casualness to why and when he did punish us.
00:41:56.480None. None. I talk about in there, you know, the values that were instilled even by the antonyms of the words that we got in trouble for saying to not to, to get my first butt whooping for saying, I can't.
00:42:11.660Oh, geez. Okay. I need, you know, can't brings the thought of can't brings pain. Oh, don't think can't. Okay. You have trouble. There's a difference.
00:42:22.000And to say the second butt whooping for saying, I hate you to my brother. I didn't know what the hell I hate you meant. I heard it from older kids at school and I thought it might be cool to throw it out there. I hate you.
00:42:32.100Well, that was my own birthday party. My mom stopped the whole party and said, what'd you say? You don't ever tell your brother, anyone you hate them. Bent me over right there. Embarrassed the heck out of me. Again, the next one for lying.
00:42:45.700So what do I learn out of those? Don't say I can't. Don't hate. Don't lie. Boy, when I did those, I felt pain. So what are the antonyms of those?
00:42:59.760Love instead of hate. Understand you're having trouble, but don't believe you can't. And tell the truth, don't lie. Those are three great values.
00:43:07.320He was preparing me for, you're going to need this in, in life. You know, it was also the time when I called, when I called him to go to tell him I want to go to film school instead of law school. And he tells me, don't pass it.
00:43:22.320And you know what happened? I've realized now, many years later, I think what happened in that moment is he heard in the conversation that lasted 25 seconds.
00:43:34.840What do you got, little buddy? Don't want to go to law school. I want to go to film school. You sure that's what you want to do? Yes, sir.
00:43:41.340Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Well, don't half-ass it. Boom, sent me into flight.
00:43:46.660But what he heard in that conversation was his son, who we were brought up in a very structured family, disciplined.
00:43:55.180You work your way up a ladder. You follow the rules. He heard his son calling him to tell him he could tell I wasn't asking for permission.
00:44:03.720He could tell I wasn't calling kind of, well, you know, I was thinking maybe. No, he heard my voice.
00:44:09.920I want to go to film school instead of law school.
00:44:11.960You also weren't calling because of failure, because you'd worked at law school.
00:44:16.660Right. But he heard that I was not bluffing. I was not really calling to ask his permission.
00:44:22.180And in that moment, I think he heard what all parents want to hear. Yes, my child's going their own way.
00:54:17.540The benefits, I suppose, of the ego benefits, perhaps, of being known rather than unknown.
00:54:24.820And then, especially in the Hollywood community, I would say it's more difficult to generate sympathy for celebrities who are hurt by their fame because.
00:54:37.540The price, it's so obvious that that's the price that has to be paid to be successful in something that's mass marketed like a movie where your face is associated with the product.
00:54:50.620Right. You can't extract out the success.
00:54:53.920You can't distinguish between the success and the fame.
00:54:56.460But, but I don't think it's possible to understand what fame does to your life until it's happened to you.
00:55:08.880So I'm curious, like, and you protect yourself, you hide.
00:55:13.780I don't mean in a withdrawing sort of way, but I mean, you live in Texas, you don't live in L.A.
00:55:17.940And you go on these sojourns where no one knows you.
00:55:20.960So you, you set up escape mechanisms, let's say, or.
00:57:45.120I know more of what I'm not than maybe more than what I do or what I am.
00:57:51.460But I'm aware enough of who I don't want to be.
00:57:55.940And I'm aware enough that I don't want to, that I need some discernation in this now optionless yeses that are coming at me in my world.
00:58:06.000I'm aware that I need to, again, be less impressed and more involved and go, hey, now that I have the chance, now that I've got the wheel and I can go wherever I want, where am I going to go?
00:58:16.840Which was the first unbalancing sort of very scary proposition, which is why I took off the first couple of times to the monastery and then to Christ in the desert.
00:58:26.760Hear my damn self think, try and decipher and disseminate what matters from what, who am I in this, what I actually want to do, what I not want to do, what I want to make stands on.
00:58:38.980Look, I remember for a while there, I had such a, my life was so many like things on top, the frequency of events were on top of me, from just walking, walking down the street to interviews, to talking to somebody.
00:59:15.780And I gave some boring ass interviews, but I was a gentleman and I didn't lie.
00:59:19.520But I just said like, don't even try and get colorful.
00:59:21.280Don't even try and have an opinion on anything.
00:59:23.140Just, just right now, ride through this and be a gentleman and don't lie.
00:59:26.100And I gave the same interview 50 times in a row over a few months.
00:59:29.720Yeah, well, there is something to be said when you're exposed to that degree, to adopting a strategy of don't do anything stupid for a while.
01:00:33.460Don't take it so personally when that person I talked about earlier, won't even call you, won't even call your, call you back because your last couple of movies have failed.
01:00:42.480And you spent, you know, you were on the list to be their children's godfather five years ago.
01:00:46.780Don't take that personally or don't take it personally when that person now, because you did get hit, is calling you and wants to go out and hang out again.
01:00:55.900Don't even bring up that, hey, you wouldn't even answer.
01:00:58.740Don't even, don't even tell them you understand the score about how they wouldn't call you then, but now they do.
01:01:04.000Well, that's a good, that's a good technique to avoid resentment.
01:01:12.840Well, that's what the, that's what getting the joke of not understanding that wasn't personal.
01:01:16.660Well, yeah, I've done that with people who are looking for work, you know, because it's difficult to find a new job.
01:01:25.940And you're going to get turned down a lot in all likelihood, you're going to send your resumes out to 50 places and get one positive reply.
01:01:32.560If you're, you know, you can expect that it might not be that bad, but it could be, it's not personal.
01:02:28.240It is a, it is a betrayal, but, but what do you want your father to put forward the worst version of himself and use that as what he teaches you?
01:02:37.040See, this goes back to that nihilistic view.
01:02:39.440If it's all for nothing, then come on, let's make it all for everything.
01:02:53.800So, but I could tell maybe if that had happened two years earlier, I wouldn't have been in the emotional space.
01:02:58.820I might've been, because it was flabbergasting.
01:03:01.080It's like meeting a hero and they turn out to be an asshole.
01:03:04.500And you're like, well, they're, and they're very likely to turn out badly in comparison to your idealization of them.
01:03:10.640A hundred percent, which, and, but, but at the same time, you know, you go talk to your favorite musician who you followed, who you performed, who your version of patriotism and fairness in the world.
01:03:21.460And you go meet them, they turn out to be an asshole.
01:03:23.100And you go like, they don't even believe in what they wrote.
01:03:28.440Well, if flawed people were incapable of creativity, we wouldn't have any creativity, you know?
01:03:35.460And so I think what you have to do when you're dealing with creative people is realize that, or people who are creative and accomplished even, is realize that the fact that they've managed that despite all their flaws is the thing that's truly remarkable because they have as many flaws as the next person.
01:03:53.080So, so, so thank God there, this is why, you know, when I see someone like Louis CK, for example, pilloried terribly, I think, well, yeah, he did some things that were unseemly, certainly even by his own standards, obviously.
01:04:43.400Now, is, can that, you know, in the name of rehabilitation, does it, do we have to have a world in which we are able to grow and evolve if that's what we're trying to do now?
01:04:59.960Oh, I mean, you know, I'm not for repeat offenders or tyrants, but if someone screws up and they have sincere, they sincerely want retribution.