The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 191. Justin Trudeau and the Election that Should Have Never Been

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00:00:16.080 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

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00:01:09.120 Welcome to the Jordan B. Peterson podcast.

00:01:12.120 This is season four, episode 45.

00:01:14.580 Today's episode is a very timely episode with repeat guest Rex Murphy.

00:01:19.280 Canada's currently going through a rapid and honestly very strange election,

00:01:22.640 and dad wanted to discuss the election and the recent debate before the vote on the 20th of September.

00:01:28.800 For those of you who don't know, Rex is a renowned commentator, author, and former radio host

00:01:33.780 who has decades of experience writing and speaking about Canadian politics and social matters.

00:01:38.400 I hope you enjoy this fairly fiery episode.

00:01:40.800 Keep an eye out or an ear out for our next episode this Friday with Maxime Bernier,

00:01:46.340 leader of the People's Party of Canada.

00:01:49.040 It's going to be a fun week.

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00:03:02.520 If the result of this election comes that at the end of this exercise in which he exposes

00:03:07.980 so many people, the liberals return with a minority, what was the point of this?

00:03:16.160 And what happens if the result is, let's be generous to him, the liberal government is

00:03:21.760 returned in a minority position.

00:03:23.520 So we're two years in, 400 billion deficit, no one wanted the election, you can't tell

00:03:29.640 me what it's about, and at the end of it, we're in the same spot?

00:03:33.960 Is this a country or is this some sort of playground?

00:03:36.520 I'm pleased today to be able to discuss the Canadian political landscape with Mr. Rex Murphy.

00:04:01.420 Rex is a journalist, extremely well known to Canadians.

00:04:05.240 He was a regular host of CBC Radio 1's Cross Country Checkup, a nationwide call-in show for

00:04:11.660 21 years before stepping down in September 2015.

00:04:15.480 I spoke with Rex about his career on, and various other matters, June 3rd, 2021, a few

00:04:21.460 months ago, and that video has accrued about 800,000 views.

00:04:24.600 It's been very popular, and I read one of Rex's columns about our Prime Minister, Justin

00:04:30.540 Trudeau, a couple of days ago, and then watched the leaders debate, and it struck me that it

00:04:36.520 would be a really good time to talk to him again about, all about a variety of things,

00:04:40.580 but obviously, most importantly for Canadians, the current election.

00:04:44.500 So we're going to talk about the election, its whys and wherefores, we're going to talk

00:04:48.960 about the leaders, and we're going to talk about the debate.

00:04:51.520 And so, thanks very much, Rex, for agreeing to talk to me today.

00:04:55.440 I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to say about all this.

00:04:58.040 Let's start with the election.

00:04:59.380 So, what's going on?

00:05:00.900 Why was this election called?

00:05:02.260 What's it about?

00:05:03.400 That is the key question of this election, and it has been the key question from the very

00:05:10.480 first moment.

00:05:11.960 And we're in the fourth week now, by the way, for the benefit of listeners.

00:05:14.980 And for the first couple of weeks, it actually threatened to become the issue of the election.

00:05:20.220 In other words, the so-called ballot question, which is how the experts talk to this, will

00:05:25.820 be, why did you call the election?

00:05:28.560 Well, here's something, here's background, and it's necessary to have this background.

00:05:32.660 Mr. Trudeau has been in office for two years.

00:05:35.540 He's received the mandate just two years ago or less.

00:05:38.840 He's had one of the most comfortable runs as a minority, you want a minority, as a minority

00:05:44.800 prime minister that anybody has ever had.

00:05:46.800 Now, it's true we were visited by COVID, but this arranged two dynamics.

00:05:52.960 First of all, Mr. Trudeau and the NDP, which is the supporting party, have obviously reached

00:05:58.520 some great accord.

00:05:59.980 So, Mr. Trudeau has had no real challenge in administering his parliamentary or executive

00:06:05.240 functions.

00:06:05.880 And secondly, with the arrival of the pandemic in particular, this gave great license for

00:06:12.600 abrogating or staying away from or diminishing the active and full role of the parliament

00:06:19.460 itself.

00:06:20.600 So, two things, a very comfortable alliance with the NDP and the bloc when the occasion

00:06:25.880 demanded it.

00:06:27.080 And secondly, because parliament was effectively eviscerated or gutted.

00:06:31.060 It was closed down.

00:06:32.940 Decessions were limited.

00:06:34.820 Committees folded.

00:06:36.360 Mr. Trudeau himself stayed away from parliament.

00:06:38.520 All his major announcements for a single year.

00:06:41.280 By the way, totaling $400 billion into deficit.

00:06:46.380 Imagine a minority politician.

00:06:48.100 O'Toole said during the debate that the Trudeau government is borrowing $500 million a day.

00:06:54.900 Yeah.

00:06:55.120 Can that possibly be true?

00:06:56.920 I can't do the mental arithmetic, but if you talk about $400 billion, then obviously, and

00:07:02.860 we have it now, we have a debt, that's the deficit, a debt of some recorded at $1.3 trillion.

00:07:11.160 And one of the public officers who accounts for Canada's finances is saying that it may

00:07:16.940 not be paid off till 2070.

00:07:19.680 And at which point it will all have totaled something like $3 trillion.

00:07:23.260 Now, when he called the election, I'm giving you all these things that he had an unhindered

00:07:28.620 hand in racking up the largest amounts of public spending since the Confederation began.

00:07:35.900 He didn't have to face parliament to any degree like other prime ministers because, again,

00:07:40.520 closed down.

00:07:41.660 All these announcements came from the steps of his cottage.

00:07:45.320 And on the day, I'm getting to your question, on the day he called the election, the justification

00:07:50.120 offered that day, and this is why I wanted to start here, was that he was meeting so much

00:07:55.040 obstruction in parliament.

00:07:57.380 And I said to myself, well, holy lord, you know, you could combine his father, John Thiefenbaker,

00:08:03.720 Lester Pearson, and John A. MacDonald, put them all in one man, and they wouldn't have had

00:08:08.140 anything like the ease, the control, and the absolute dominance of the parliamentary function.

00:08:14.840 The committees were dissolved.

00:08:17.020 The accountability people didn't have enough funds.

00:08:19.720 The Auditor General asked, with all this money going out the window, I need more people

00:08:24.880 to keep it checked.

00:08:26.240 There was no money for the Auditor General, even as you spent $400 billion.

00:08:33.360 We are not the U.S.

00:08:34.560 That's the deficit.

00:08:35.320 And he made a pledge in 2015 that by 2019, the deficit of Canada would be gone.

00:08:43.400 We would have a balanced budget.

00:08:44.740 So let's start with that one.

00:08:46.820 The reason I'm calling this election is that the opposition is obstructionist, and I cannot

00:08:52.880 get my way through.

00:08:54.240 That was so palpably, so absolutely, adamantly empty as a reason.

00:09:00.780 The real reason, and a lot of them, is that during that period, the polls were showing

00:09:07.320 that because of all the money flowing out, Canadians have never received directly so many

00:09:12.000 dollars before.

00:09:14.060 And that despite, and we'll go back to this, despite his initial stumblings, and there were

00:09:18.360 many over this pandemic and scandals, nonetheless, he was very popular versus Mr. O'Toole.

00:09:24.800 So there was a hope of a majority.

00:09:26.520 And I'll wind this little section down, but it's a very important thing to ask.

00:09:30.780 The hope of a majority said to his advisors and him, okay, we have two full years left.

00:09:37.480 We have an extremely compliant parliament.

00:09:40.820 No other foreign minister has had it as easy as us.

00:09:43.560 However, if we went now, we might get a majority.

00:09:47.300 And there are only two reasons why you would throw away two years of an already established

00:09:53.100 mandate for the hope of four years on a gamble.

00:09:57.660 The one is the polls.

00:09:59.460 The second is this.

00:10:00.280 And this is the deeper one for me anyway.

00:10:02.080 And I'm not a conspiracy guy.

00:10:04.040 All that money going out, not being properly accounted for.

00:10:07.760 Parliament not exercising its functions.

00:10:10.320 Is it possible that the Chudro government is really, really worried that when the pandemic

00:10:15.400 slows down and people return their attention to the administration of government and how and

00:10:21.060 where these huge amounts of money went and how they were supervised, how well they were

00:10:27.620 administered, who received them, I think there was a fear that if he remained in minority

00:10:33.820 and the pandemic reduced the pressure so that the parliament could resume its function,

00:10:39.960 the press could get off the one topic, and they would start to look at the record of that

00:10:45.080 spending, how it was decided, who established their priorities.

00:10:49.320 And on top of all of that, of course, we get into those.

00:10:51.680 He's had, as you know, a reign, R-A-I-N, a reign of scandals during this particular period.

00:10:57.300 And maybe he thought an election could kind of wash that off him.

00:11:00.960 But it was called for only one reason, to secure a majority for the next four years.

00:11:06.620 Now, how that's going, we will talk about it.

00:11:08.420 Well, it seems like a strange gamble to take if your initial supposition is correct, too,

00:11:15.640 which is that he was essentially leading a de facto majority government because of the

00:11:22.800 unconditional support of the NDP.

00:11:24.660 So it seems strange to throw that away if that's been functioning.

00:11:28.780 I mean, it's going to tilt the liberal policy to the left to some degree, but I can't imagine

00:11:32.380 that that's really that big a problem for Mr. Trudeau.

00:11:35.900 Well, you're pinpointing what is, again, to me, this is the unanswerable question.

00:11:41.640 This is not the partisan observation.

00:11:44.120 Everyone will tell you this.

00:11:45.840 Parliament rarely met.

00:11:47.560 It met only in Zoom calls.

00:11:50.440 The press had to stand every morning outside the cottage.

00:11:53.760 The normal scrutinies, the normal dynamics, the internal committees, all of this was abruptly

00:11:58.740 just gone with at the same time.

00:12:01.140 At the very same time, there was a motion made by the then finance minister that he wanted

00:12:07.380 the minority government to have the authority to expend monies for two years.

00:12:15.540 It's not made up without parliamentary approval.

00:12:19.240 That shocked even them, and that was denied.

00:12:21.800 However, because of, as I say, the closet arrangements between the BQ and the NDP, whenever he wanted

00:12:30.540 to shovel out $6 billion here, $10 billion there, $4 billion there, up to $400 billion he has.

00:12:38.560 Okay, so let me play devil's advocate here a bit.

00:12:41.340 So we could say, Mr. Trudeau said he would have Canadians' backs, desperate times require

00:12:46.960 desperate measures, Canada is rich enough to afford this largesse, so why not open the

00:12:52.420 pumps and flood people with money while they're in this crisis situation?

00:12:56.540 What do you see as the benefits of that, say, but also the long-term, medium- and long-term

00:13:01.500 dangers?

00:13:02.020 Well, in any crisis, like the 2008 recession, Prime Minister Harper released more money than

00:13:13.200 the Prime Minister Harper would normally do.

00:13:15.700 However, you see, there's a double problem with this particular—sure, you have to respond

00:13:19.660 to the pandemic, but some of the responses are very far from the actual problem that he's

00:13:25.820 dealing with.

00:13:26.760 Secondly, and this is a very crucial thing, the pandemic had a second dynamic.

00:13:32.020 It shut down all of the businesses, service things, hotels, taxis, construction, projects,

00:13:40.380 schools, everything is shut down, and the economy of Canada during the last year and a half to

00:13:46.100 two, we haven't got the measure of it.

00:13:48.520 It has taken a devastating, a devastating and a savage hit.

00:13:53.960 So at the very period that your economy is actually unmeasured, because we're not having

00:13:59.560 the measurements done, hitting a crater, we're shooting a deficit past Uranus.

00:14:07.680 And there's no one, the parliamentary budget officer can't get the thing, the auditor general

00:14:11.680 can't get the press, and this great flood of money keeps everybody happy.

00:14:16.000 So the normal, again, the accoutrements of parliamentary oversight and accountability

00:14:21.240 are not there.

00:14:22.640 It was a flood.

00:14:23.540 So let's continue the discussion with regards to what this election is about.

00:14:29.500 And I watched the debate last week.

00:14:31.940 And when I was about halfway through watching it, I had this idea, which was the responses

00:14:41.100 that the leaders, that all the different leaders of the federal parties had to the questions,

00:14:45.660 that isn't really where the debate was being won or lost.

00:14:49.020 The debate was won or lost before it even started.

00:14:53.460 And the reason for that was because of the topics that were chosen.

00:14:58.360 And so let's look at the debate from, as a, what would you say, as an entity in itself.

00:15:07.480 Forget about the content.

00:15:08.760 And the first thing that happened was that there was a land acknowledgement, indigenous land

00:15:13.100 acknowledgement.

00:15:13.940 And so that, you know, I've seen those things happen over and over, and they always make

00:15:18.680 me wonder.

00:15:19.320 It's like, well, who decided that every important occasion in Canadian life, political life,

00:15:24.880 was going to be signified by one of these land acknowledgements?

00:15:28.100 And who benefits from them?

00:15:31.780 And what do they really mean?

00:15:33.260 And what are they setting us up for?

00:15:35.260 And so I would say, regardless of their intrinsic merit, it's certainly the case that the idea

00:15:41.220 of indigenous land acknowledgement and that that should precede every discussion of import

00:15:46.440 is a progressive idea.

00:15:49.620 And so what that means is the debate is framed instantly from the perspective of the progressives.

00:15:55.280 And then you look at the structure of the debate.

00:15:57.040 You have the NDP left, Green Party left, Liberals left, and you have the lone conservative, Aaron

00:16:05.120 O'Toole.

00:16:06.000 And then you have the choice of questions.

00:16:07.880 And I found this, so imagine that the most significant piece of information that emerges

00:16:14.580 from the debate is not how the leaders responded, but what the questions were.

00:16:19.740 Because if I wanted to ask a leader something, I'd say, well, what do you think the most pressing

00:16:24.560 issues facing Canadians are?

00:16:27.540 And then I'd like to hear the answers, but I'd like to know what are the questions?

00:16:30.720 What are the issues?

00:16:31.760 And then by participating in this debate, as it was structured, Aaron O'Toole, the putative

00:16:37.040 conservative, ceded the conceptual territory so that half the debate was taken up on climate

00:16:46.500 change and reconciliation.

00:16:49.040 And only a quarter of it on affordability of all the absurd topics.

00:16:55.040 That means the economy.

00:16:56.960 That means the entire business of governance.

00:17:01.920 And so it's so strange to see us framing our entire national discussion in this haphazard,

00:17:11.340 ad hoc way that brings a set of presuppositions to the table before the debate even starts.

00:17:18.340 And to see no one object to that.

00:17:20.660 It's like, is climate change really that crucial, a crisis right now?

00:17:25.780 I can tell you, first of all, I got to agree with one very big point.

00:17:30.600 It's a conceptual point.

00:17:32.000 When you set these things up, as you say, with a ritual invocation, obviously from the

00:17:37.440 both progressive side, you said the prayer of land acknowledgement, you're back in some

00:17:41.300 sort of progressive church.

00:17:43.080 So now you've established the ethos and the atmosphere.

00:17:46.300 And then, and you're absolutely correct.

00:17:48.000 I'm not saying that just to please you.

00:17:49.700 If, if they call it a debate, the selection of what is to be talked about is the debate.

00:17:56.720 Yes, absolutely.

00:17:58.000 If that is, we should say that over and over.

00:18:00.040 We should say that over and over.

00:18:01.100 The selection of what to talk about is the debate.

00:18:03.960 Yeah.

00:18:04.240 So it's lost to begin with by the conservatives.

00:18:06.440 Now to get to a particular, the climate change, I think you, you timed it.

00:18:11.160 It was something like 26 minutes in Quebec, in Quebec.

00:18:15.680 Uh, there was a poll on yesterday of the seven main issues in Quebec.

00:18:21.120 The seventh issue, the seventh, the seventh was climate change.

00:18:26.400 If you go down to Newfoundland and you try to tell someone down there that climate change

00:18:30.620 is the number one issue, they'll throw you off a wharf.

00:18:33.900 Yeah.

00:18:34.040 How about Albertans, Albertans, if you go out there and tell them that the ruination of

00:18:38.680 Alberta and that the war against it's, it's, it's, it's central and abiding industry and

00:18:45.520 the threat of taking all the oil workers off their jobs and sending them out to mold windmills.

00:18:51.520 I was out in Alberta just a week ago, Alberta, I'm stopping there.

00:18:57.400 Alberta should be a topic of the debate.

00:19:00.980 How has it been treated in the last 10 years?

00:19:03.040 The elimination of the pipelines, the, the, the, the Niagara of, of obstruction and protest

00:19:09.480 over a legitimate industry and the demonization of a single province.

00:19:14.020 There are no demonstrations against China, Venezuela, Russia, any of the oil producing

00:19:18.920 countries.

00:19:19.680 One province.

00:19:20.480 The Arabs.

00:19:20.960 One province in one country is attacked by its own.

00:19:25.320 And Mr. Trudeau, when he opens his mouth without the usual guards, speaks about, oh, we can't

00:19:31.320 close the oil industry tomorrow.

00:19:33.840 Instead, go back to your point.

00:19:35.820 Climate change gets set up in that thing as if it's a mobile block.

00:19:40.440 The science is a single word.

00:19:44.040 Okay.

00:19:44.700 I want to talk a little bit more about that too.

00:19:46.760 I could go ahead on this.

00:19:47.420 People should be warned about this.

00:19:49.000 Okay.

00:19:49.220 So I was thinking more about climate change is that there is no conceptual difference from

00:19:54.320 a governance perspective between the terms climate change and the terms global governance.

00:20:01.180 And here's why it's because climate is the entire planet.

00:20:06.560 It's every system in the planet.

00:20:09.440 And change doesn't mean change.

00:20:10.980 It means existential crisis, to paraphrase the green leader, Annamie Paul.

00:20:15.880 So think about what we're doing, Canadians.

00:20:18.460 Think about what we're doing.

00:20:19.800 We're taking this phrase, climate change.

00:20:22.380 We conceptualize it as a problem.

00:20:24.280 Then we conceptualize it perhaps as a crisis.

00:20:27.120 All right.

00:20:27.420 And then we're ceding administrative power to governmental officials who parade their commitment

00:20:33.640 to climate change as a high moral virtue.

00:20:36.960 And then they can say, they can point to any piece of evidence they want that supports

00:20:42.280 the crisis nature of the climate change.

00:20:44.580 And that's always going to be there.

00:20:45.620 A flood, a drought, fire, hurricanes that proves that climate change is not only real,

00:20:51.340 but it's an instant existential crisis and that you're immoral if you don't put it at

00:20:55.620 the top of the list.

00:20:56.500 And because it means global governance, you essentially cede all your moral authority and all your policy

00:21:03.500 making power to any government that wants to do anything they want as long as they use

00:21:08.260 climate change as a justification.

00:21:10.180 And that should worry environmentalists too, because what that does, using that catch-all

00:21:16.300 buzz phrase, which really means global governance and nothing else, is that it obscures the attempts

00:21:22.420 of anybody serious to deal with micro problems of the environment that could actually be solved.

00:21:27.340 It's a terrible thing.

00:21:29.060 Well, I could link it, by the way.

00:21:32.680 I don't think this is at all a far-fetched idea.

00:21:36.060 We're being herded in some degree under the demands of the pandemic itself.

00:21:45.640 We're becoming more relaxed in the suspension or the abridgment or the abandonment of some

00:21:52.520 of our normal, legitimate, democratic functions.

00:21:56.160 And I see that the pandemic, in certain ways, is almost a preparatory course.

00:22:02.840 Yes.

00:22:03.240 That once you build a habit, oh, well, this, by the way, but people's health is sacred,

00:22:07.340 so you really can't object to us moving into this territory.

00:22:10.180 If you have a good enough cause, you can build up the administrative state to heights never

00:22:15.780 seen before.

00:22:16.680 But, you know, we're doing this because of health.

00:22:18.040 Yes, and climate change is the perfect excuse.

00:22:19.760 It's the perfect excuse for that.

00:22:21.280 And you can see, and you'd say, well, climate change is a terrible catastrophe and all of

00:22:25.600 that.

00:22:25.920 Well, I've interviewed Bjorn Lomberg a number of times.

00:22:29.360 And if you want an intelligent discussion about the dangers, he's sane.

00:22:34.040 And the thing about Lomberg, too, is he cares.

00:22:36.780 He's an environmentally minded person.

00:22:39.400 Yes, he is.

00:22:39.880 And he does his cost benefit analysis with the input of the best economists in the world.

00:22:46.500 And he'll take a look at a country.

00:22:48.260 His team takes a look at a country and says, well, first of all, let's specify the problems

00:22:53.120 that face us, rank order them, and then rank order them again in terms of how we can spend

00:22:57.580 money, the most efficient way to make progress on these areas.

00:23:00.920 They do it.

00:23:01.580 They have a policy generating apparatus, an analytic apparatus that does that.

00:23:06.120 Now, if you want good information about the climate, I think Lomberg is a reliable source.

00:23:11.680 We can't overstate the danger of precisely what you said.

00:23:16.060 And we both sound increasing like a couple of conspiracy theorists.

00:23:19.840 And that's a terrible thing.

00:23:21.180 I mean, you've been a mainstream journalist forever and a very reliable one.

00:23:24.520 But it is definitely the case that we are getting accustomed to the ceding of our civil liberties.

00:23:30.140 And as you pointed out, as long as the reason is good enough, and you're immoral for even

00:23:36.660 objecting to the fact of the reason, then you're dead in the water to begin with.

00:23:40.660 And this is happening to the conservatives all the time.

00:23:43.200 And they don't object.

00:23:44.920 And it's not good.

00:23:46.520 Two points to come out of this.

00:23:47.980 I go back to your, let's say, before this particular period, to your main talks three and

00:23:53.920 four years ago, one of the aspects of our current culture is that a set of managerial or clerical

00:24:01.000 minds, the bureaucrats, the academics, the woke, they've given themselves or arrogated to

00:24:06.520 themselves the right to determine when a topic is finished and when it is not.

00:24:10.300 And the earliest indication of so-called cancel culture, and I think the most damning one,

00:24:16.240 goes back to Al Gore, goes back to 2001 and Academy Awards that once this global warming,

00:24:21.900 a.k.a. climate change, a.k.a. global weirding, once it became a big international political

00:24:28.400 ball, the line was, the science is settled.

00:24:32.620 In other words, our version of what this thing is, but much more importantly, the measures

00:24:38.640 that we are saying are necessary, get folded into inverted commas.

00:24:42.000 Yes, that's the crucial thing.

00:24:43.300 That's the crucial thing.

00:24:45.400 They're trying to tell you in advance you can't argue the main point.

00:24:48.880 My difficulty with Mr. O'Toole in that debate goes exactly again to your understanding.

00:24:54.740 Mr. O'Toole is sliding along with that one.

00:24:57.780 If he really believes that climate change is existential and that Alberta has to rip up

00:25:02.400 its own economy, let him say it.

00:25:04.520 I would much rather see someone in opposition who said, I haven't fully accepted that this

00:25:09.800 apocalyptic menace that you've been peddling for 25 years is an established thing.

00:25:14.740 And I certainly don't accept that I can't argue with you over the proposals that come

00:25:19.560 out of it.

00:25:20.220 But on that debate, everyone had to be holy.

00:25:22.680 And everyone, what's your climate change plan?

00:25:25.460 There is no plan in Canada to stop a world event.

00:25:29.140 It's illogical.

00:25:30.600 Not only that, it isn't obvious.

00:25:33.940 It's by no means obvious that we know how to stop it anyways.

00:25:37.220 And it certainly isn't clear that we know what measures should be taken.

00:25:40.700 I mean, the Americans have actually decreased their carbon output.

00:25:43.680 I think it's 14% over the last 10 years.

00:25:46.280 Why?

00:25:47.520 Fracking.

00:25:48.600 Now, you find me one progressive who bloody well predicted that.

00:25:53.360 And that's, that's, see, you made the point exactly right, is that people jump up and down

00:25:59.460 about climate change.

00:26:00.320 And they say the science is settled.

00:26:01.640 And you're a flat earth or a backward son of a bitch if you don't agree with it.

00:26:04.900 But that is just a proxy for their claim that I know how to deal with it.

00:26:10.000 And these policies, all of which just happen to be progressive, are the only means by which

00:26:14.940 this can possibly be redressed.

00:26:16.500 And that is not only patently untrue.

00:26:19.080 It's, it's quite clear to me that in all probability, the cure is going to be far greater

00:26:25.520 than the disease.

00:26:26.480 Oh, absolutely.

00:26:27.540 You, well, again, take the state candidate at the present minute that we're in the election

00:26:31.620 again.

00:26:31.920 The fact that there has, the Trudeau government in particular, because flying virtue flags is

00:26:38.040 about the only exercise they know how to do perfectly.

00:26:41.060 Climate change, global warming, saving the world, the COP meetings, the IPCC.

00:26:45.020 This, this is, this is to Justin Trudeau, his idea of the Eucharist.

00:26:48.780 And he hired one of the most, most adamant, intense climate activists ever, Gerald Butts,

00:26:53.900 to be his principal man.

00:26:54.940 This is the key big idea.

00:26:57.580 And it's obsessional, ritualistic, and in Trudeau's case, possibly even religious.

00:27:02.780 Yes, I agree that it's, I agree that it's religious.

00:27:05.200 One of the things I've been thinking through psychologically most recently is the, it's the

00:27:10.320 psychological ramifications and the political ramifications of the old New Testament statement

00:27:15.160 to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's.

00:27:18.940 And the problem seems to me to be psychologically is that once you stop rendering unto God what

00:27:25.340 is God, so you, you, you muddy up the religious domain, you remove it, then all sorts of things

00:27:31.280 that shouldn't become, that shouldn't be religious, become religious.

00:27:35.260 There's no getting rid of the instinct.

00:27:36.940 It just transfers to something else.

00:27:38.820 And this save the planet mentality.

00:27:41.940 Well, your land acknowledgements are a ritual token submission.

00:27:46.520 By the way, even that the fact that the nation's flag is at half staff, I don't know now for

00:27:52.760 how many weeks.

00:27:54.040 Yep.

00:27:54.580 Yep.

00:27:54.760 That's another religious, by the way, our flag is at half mass during an election.

00:28:00.760 And we haven't even mentioned Afghanistan, but I must go back one more quick point on the

00:28:05.860 cost of global warming politics.

00:28:08.820 You've estranged the entire Western provinces.

00:28:12.680 There is, there is real anger.

00:28:14.260 There is real passion.

00:28:15.420 And there are certainly disenchantment that Alberta, a full, vigorous, helpful province

00:28:20.440 that provided jobs for half of Canada during a recession is now being targeted because global

00:28:26.900 warming as the mandarins of Ottawa and Montreal and Toronto and the news media, they want to

00:28:33.000 be holy on this one as well.

00:28:34.980 Alberta has become a leprous state.

00:28:36.840 It's a pariah.

00:28:38.740 And we're risking our own confederation because of the obsessions of some of these high-class

00:28:44.060 ideologues who do not know reality.

00:28:47.680 Yes.

00:28:47.900 Well, we could think broadly speaking, even in terms of the future security of the West

00:28:52.880 as a whole.

00:28:53.540 It's like the Americans should be buying oil from Canada and not from the Arabs, obviously.

00:28:59.460 And all that's going to happen if we shut down the Alberta industry, apart from the unbelievable

00:29:04.640 economic damage that it's going to do and the alienation to that province and the catastrophic

00:29:10.680 stupidity that's involved is to cede more power to states that have held us over a barrel,

00:29:17.140 so to speak, a barrel of oil ever since 1971.

00:29:19.900 It's like you saw what happened to Germany when they became over-dependent on Russia for

00:29:26.620 their pet petroleum resources.

00:29:29.660 Yeah.

00:29:29.840 It's like we're being run by naive, moralistic children.

00:29:36.520 You talked about this academic coterie of people who are holier than thou.

00:29:40.720 I really found that characteristic of Anna Mee Paul, the green leader.

00:29:45.780 She reminds me of everything that I detest about academics, the worst academics.

00:29:50.520 And there's this moral superiority combined with this absolute certainty that a particular

00:29:57.440 kind of intellectual approach is so much superior that anyone who would dare to question it has

00:30:03.840 to be both ignorant and malevolent.

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00:35:29.120 That a particular kind of intellectual approach is so much superior that anyone who would dare

00:35:38.860 to question it has to be both ignorant and malevolent.

00:35:41.580 You're seeing that also in this election now.

00:35:46.280 Mr. Trudeau goes around like a spin top.

00:35:49.180 He's now onto this thing about vaccination.

00:35:52.460 And that if you have a disposition or a set of arguments, I'm not getting into the vaccination

00:35:57.800 debate as vaccination.

00:35:59.960 People who have civil liberties, from the mistrust they have of certain institutions,

00:36:05.020 they're now anti-vaxxers.

00:36:06.720 In other words, they're climate deniers.

00:36:08.200 You see, we're getting camps and he's really coming down on that.

00:36:11.880 But this comes as you...

00:36:13.240 Yeah, he said that he wouldn't...

00:36:14.660 He had no sympathy for people.

00:36:16.300 No sympathy for them at all.

00:36:17.040 No sympathy.

00:36:18.040 Yep.

00:36:18.360 It's so interesting to see because, you know, a leader should be in some sense agnostic about

00:36:24.800 such things.

00:36:25.360 I would say...

00:36:26.540 I talked to John Anderson, who used to be the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, about

00:36:30.520 COVID policy.

00:36:31.620 And this is something we talked about.

00:36:33.160 I'd like your thoughts on it.

00:36:34.460 So this is obviously just a sketch, a proposal.

00:36:38.200 So we have all these vaccines and we've...

00:36:41.880 And I'm vaccinated, by the way.

00:36:43.100 I have two vaccinations.

00:36:44.240 And I'm not saying that because I'm proud of it or anything like that.

00:36:46.680 I just...

00:36:47.220 That's what I did.

00:36:47.980 And if people don't want to do it, there are people in my family who don't want to get

00:36:50.700 vaccinated.

00:36:51.320 It's like, that's your right.

00:36:53.880 It's a fundamental right, I would say, guaranteed by the UN, among other organizations, the right

00:36:58.680 to refuse medical treatment.

00:36:59.880 And in any case, so we have all these vaccines and hypothetically, they're for everyone's

00:37:05.080 benefit.

00:37:05.400 So you say, look, you have until December 15th to be vaccinated.

00:37:11.500 We're opening everything up then.

00:37:13.880 And it's on you.

00:37:15.480 We're going to increase ICU spending in case you get sick, in case the unvaccinated gets

00:37:21.600 sick.

00:37:21.920 We're still going to take care of you.

00:37:23.540 But we think the vaccines are effective, and they're available to you, and we can't risk

00:37:28.480 any more damage to the economy.

00:37:30.160 Like Anderson's comment was, well, we've been letting doctors, physicians, for example, of

00:37:35.240 a certain stripe, let's say, drive political policy without paying any attention whatsoever

00:37:40.400 to the burgeoning economic cost of this.

00:37:43.780 And what are we going to see, Rex?

00:37:44.900 Are we going to see a massive return of inflation in the aftermath of this when the economy teeters?

00:37:50.960 I think that's, again, go back right to the very beginning.

00:37:55.140 Why this election?

00:37:56.420 Apart from the vanity of perhaps getting his majority, that the consequences of the last

00:38:02.000 two years of policies that have been enacted, the various positions that have been taken,

00:38:06.740 and by the way, the multiple confusions from the beginning, we're going to start seeing

00:38:11.100 some of that.

00:38:11.680 And then when the pandemic finally lifts and the economy is revealed as the rubble it has

00:38:17.760 become, the anger out there that we may have done all of this, and it may not have been

00:38:23.360 either the most efficient or even the most correct, and in the meantime, we've bankrupted

00:38:28.060 the entire national treasury.

00:38:29.900 There is an awful wind coming down from the north over the next year or two, and that wind

00:38:36.020 would have been too strong, once it gets to the violent peak that it would, for his minority

00:38:41.840 government arrangement to sustain itself.

00:38:44.580 He needs a majority.

00:38:46.140 I'm thinking of the damn throne, the chain of buzzard, the Game of Thrones.

00:38:51.840 He needs his ice wall of a majority government to stay there for the next four years.

00:38:58.040 By the way, here's another little subtext.

00:39:00.140 This is very interesting.

00:39:01.440 We're having an election.

00:39:02.440 He summoned all the people of Canada, almost 40 million, in the middle of a pandemic in which

00:39:09.480 social contact is governed, and distancing and masking, but he has called an event together,

00:39:15.700 the most multitudinous that you possibly could, in the middle of the damn pandemic, to discuss

00:39:21.560 the pandemic.

00:39:23.280 And if the result of this election comes that at the end of this exercise, in which he exposes

00:39:29.160 so many people, the liberals return with a minority, what was the point of this?

00:39:36.620 And what happens if the result is, let's be generous to him, the liberal government is

00:39:42.940 returned in a minority position.

00:39:45.100 So we're two years in, 400 billion deficit.

00:39:48.560 No one wanted the election.

00:39:50.080 You can't tell me what it's about.

00:39:51.960 And at the end of it, we're in the same spot.

00:39:55.140 Is this a country or is this some sort of playground?

00:39:57.700 Well, it looks, let me ask you a question, too, about the topics of the debate.

00:40:07.140 Again, because I want to hit that over and over, the fact that that territory was seeded

00:40:11.500 to begin with.

00:40:12.200 People really have to understand this, is that the topics are the debate, because that tells

00:40:17.020 what everyone says is important.

00:40:19.120 Okay, so reconciliation, we haven't talked about that.

00:40:22.480 Yeah, it took up a tremendous chunk of the debate.

00:40:24.460 That's in the middle of a pandemic and during the initial phases of what's likely to be

00:40:29.600 an economic crisis.

00:40:31.640 Okay, so one of the things the debate should have been about, as far as I can tell, in a

00:40:37.360 serious way, is the COVID shutdown.

00:40:40.480 It's like, we need an array of opinions about exactly what, do you want to stay locked down,

00:40:45.860 everyone?

00:40:46.500 Like, what sort of risk are we willing to take?

00:40:48.380 And that's, so that, in my way of thinking, that was the number one topic.

00:40:54.700 And this affordability issue is also so comical.

00:40:57.720 It's like, were the people who put the debate topics together so ignorant about the way that

00:41:06.660 reality is structured that they believe that shoveling every bit of the discussion about

00:41:12.080 the economy into one 20-minute section of the debate under the heading affordability, that

00:41:19.940 that wasn't appropriate conceptually?

00:41:22.040 I mean, isn't that reminiscent of Trudeau's statement that he isn't interested in monetary

00:41:25.800 policy?

00:41:26.880 Isn't that the same thing?

00:41:29.720 Reminiscent, but think about it for a second.

00:41:32.040 I'll underline it a different way.

00:41:33.460 I've said twice or three times, we have a $400 billion deficit, it's historic, a $1.3 trillion

00:41:40.860 debt, it's historic, brought in by a prime minister who then announces, this is $400 billion, $1 trillion

00:41:46.960 three, I don't think about monetary policy.

00:41:49.640 Well, put those two together.

00:41:52.460 This is so much a disjunctive.

00:41:56.280 Anyone who, you could only have someone who doesn't know what monetary policy is, not worry

00:42:02.000 about these things, and money is there to be printed or thrown out, it's the economy.

00:42:08.360 Yeah, well, that's what I see, that's what I see conceptually in the structure of the

00:42:11.480 debate.

00:42:11.800 It's like, oh, we'll just, that, all that kind of detailed nonsense, that's for lesser

00:42:16.000 minds.

00:42:16.340 Yeah, exactly.

00:42:16.800 We'll just shovel that under affordability, and we'll donate 20 minutes to it, because we

00:42:21.220 know how important can that possibly be compared to, well.

00:42:25.900 Well, on that debate, there's one that I'd like you to consider.

00:42:29.340 This election was called, as I said, in the middle of a pandemic, but it also happened

00:42:35.440 on the same day, and I really like your opinion on this, and on the same hour almost, that an

00:42:40.940 episode in Afghanistan that took 20 years, and in the case of some of our soldiers, well

00:42:45.260 over a decade, 158 dead, so many wounded families, we had honor trips, we had journalists

00:42:51.280 going to Afghanistan, we made pledges to the girls and women, feminism was going on, and

00:42:56.800 when the day that it shuts down, and the Taliban walk in and nullify, and Canadian citizens

00:43:02.380 are stranded, and fixers and interpreters that work with our soldiers and our journalists

00:43:07.680 are there, and he calls it an election.

00:43:11.540 Boris Johnson was the next day resummoned Parliament.

00:43:15.020 Do you realize how little debate we've had on an issue?

00:43:18.380 I was at the National for this, the amount of coverage of the Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan

00:43:24.140 and what they were doing and what they were suffering, and the highway of heroes, the great

00:43:30.840 boost, the trip stroke, and suddenly, it's just not there.

00:43:35.620 Why is not the government saying to the mothers and fathers of those veterans that lost their

00:43:40.620 lives, to the soldiers who were there, we now wish to speak to you.

00:43:44.440 You gave us 11 years of limb and life, and it's just, it turns to a nullity.

00:43:50.440 I must direct some of my political advice or understanding to you, because you must be sitting

00:43:58.900 there saying, why did I go over there?

00:44:01.920 What about my friend that I can't get back?

00:44:04.680 Okay, so let's take a brief foray in that direction.

00:44:07.880 I mean, I've been watching to some degree.

00:44:10.300 I'm certainly no expert.

00:44:11.580 Well, I'm no expert in any of this, that's for sure.

00:44:14.120 I'm just watching with my jaw agape, fundamentally.

00:44:18.840 The State Department, the U.S., keeps sending out missives that are sort of reminiscent of

00:44:24.700 our federal cabinet minister's comment about the Taliban being our brothers.

00:44:29.240 It's like, they're surprised.

00:44:30.840 They seem surprised that, they seem to expect that the Taliban would, first of all, abide

00:44:35.520 by some sort of, like, quasi-progressive international standards, that they would have something

00:44:40.480 resembling an inclusive government, which meant, including women, and for example, just to

00:44:47.840 begin with, that they would act like people who are completely unlike the Taliban.

00:44:54.740 And now, and now with that, that isn't happening, which everyone could have predicted with absolute

00:45:01.620 certainty, the State Department missives seem to be those of surprise.

00:45:05.900 It's like, well, this isn't what we expected.

00:45:07.940 It's, and so I would presume that that sort of thinking must have permeated the Trudeau cabinet.

00:45:15.360 It looks like it, because otherwise, why would she say such a thing?

00:45:18.540 Or are they pretending?

00:45:19.960 You, you, you'd have to be, you'd have to be a beach rock not to know what the Taliban is like.

00:45:26.320 And if you look, even, even yesterday, even yesterday, I saw pictures of two journalists

00:45:32.780 who were stripped to the waist, and their legs were bare, and they were striped with awful stripes.

00:45:39.440 You saw another woman getting savagely beaten.

00:45:42.840 You've seen now that they've divided the roles.

00:45:46.540 You know that this is a fundamentalist, tyrannical, barbarous government.

00:45:51.520 But what, what upsets me, and what I think should be, or almost, not almost, morally in this election,

00:45:58.460 we made a moral commitment, which we didn't have to make, but if you make them, you better hang on to them.

00:46:03.360 And we talked so loud and so proudly of what Canada, Canada's back, was doing for all these wretched people

00:46:09.960 in Afghanistan who had suffered, but now we're building schools, and we're building water stops.

00:46:15.840 And we were, and some of the Canadians, I met many Canadian soldiers coming back, you know,

00:46:20.240 they were so happy that they were doing something for people less well-off.

00:46:24.580 And when the whole enterprise collapses, the next speech the next day is,

00:46:30.300 we're going to send $500 million to seniors.

00:46:33.000 Do you not speak to the biggest foreign policy issue of the last 10 years,

00:46:38.580 involving the most respected institution in this country, which is its military,

00:46:43.180 and to go to your point, on a debate, and we only have one in English,

00:46:49.180 you don't have Afghanistan on it at all. Can you?

00:46:53.240 Yeah, well, that's military policy. That's another one of those sort of messy details, you know,

00:46:57.460 that people who are high-minded don't ever give any consideration to,

00:47:01.600 especially not when we can have discussions about global salvation and climate change.

00:47:06.780 And that climate change is lovely, too, for people who can speak,

00:47:14.240 who want to speak in, what would you call them, impressive clichés,

00:47:19.460 because it isn't an actual problem, in that an actual problem has to be conceptualized

00:47:26.500 as small enough, in some sense, so that you could hypothetically take action

00:47:31.540 that would have a fairly determinate outcome, right?

00:47:34.120 So you have to break it down into a problem that's manageable,

00:47:37.720 a very, very difficult thing to do when you're talking about something like climate change,

00:47:42.200 which involves everything.

00:47:42.920 I'm going to fix the world's weather, yeah.

00:47:45.420 Yeah, exactly.

00:47:45.980 I tell you what, here's the test.

00:47:46.900 Or I'm going to retool energy policy globally.

00:47:50.180 It's like, really, are you? You really, you can't even,

00:47:52.480 you don't even know how your car works.

00:47:54.660 Here's the test, and this is a really good one,

00:47:56.960 and I think it's extremely pertinent.

00:47:59.580 I wrote a little thing, not because I wrote it.

00:48:01.540 I wrote a little thing, I believe you on climate change,

00:48:05.020 and I believe you have the technical expertise to do it,

00:48:08.080 and I believe that Canada can actually be the fundamental lever

00:48:11.440 to change the climate of the world.

00:48:13.640 But first, I want a small demonstration.

00:48:16.020 You promised that we wouldn't have any boil water advisories

00:48:19.020 on a number of localized indigenous reserves.

00:48:23.200 These are small projects, environmental projects, too,

00:48:25.980 when you think about them, tell you what,

00:48:27.880 when every single boil advisory is cancelled,

00:48:31.060 and when the water on all the reserves is completely safe,

00:48:35.280 and the promises you have made for 30 years

00:48:37.240 on this minuscule problem, minuscule in comparison

00:48:39.980 to global warming, then bring in your global warming agenda.

00:48:43.560 The problems they can deal with, they depart from.

00:48:47.000 The problems that they know they can't handle,

00:48:49.220 they're more than willing to talk forever about them,

00:48:51.660 and they're all in 2050 or 2075 or 2120.

00:48:56.780 They elect the problems 50 years out.

00:48:58.940 The one up north and the promise made in 2015

00:49:01.700 that these advisories would be over.

00:49:03.760 Ah, that's just, well, that's a problem we could solve.

00:49:06.800 So obviously, we're not going to.

00:49:09.080 Give us the ones we can't.

00:49:10.800 So let's talk a bit about this reconciliation issue, too,

00:49:13.740 because that was one-fifth of the debate.

00:49:16.080 And so the basic proposition is something like

00:49:20.860 the Indigenous people of Canada have had a hard time,

00:49:25.840 historically speaking,

00:49:27.280 and the federal and provincial governments

00:49:29.700 have been complicit in that,

00:49:30.860 and by extension,

00:49:32.280 all those who are part of that governmental structure,

00:49:34.780 and fair enough.

00:49:37.380 But then I was listening,

00:49:39.240 and I have some familiarity with Native culture,

00:49:42.900 not a lot,

00:49:43.660 and some real sympathy for people

00:49:47.760 who survived the worst of the residential schools,

00:49:50.200 and I know someone,

00:49:51.020 I'm very close to someone

00:49:51.920 who was brutalized beyond comprehension

00:49:54.280 in such a system.

00:49:56.580 It's appalling what happened to him

00:49:59.480 and to people like him.

00:50:00.820 But then I didn't hear any straight talk

00:50:04.100 about the reserves themselves,

00:50:05.800 and I'm going to go way out of limb here,

00:50:08.340 but, you know, that's what you do.

00:50:09.740 I think if you want to address these things

00:50:12.620 with some amount of content,

00:50:14.420 most of the reserves that I'm familiar with

00:50:17.140 are like small towns.

00:50:18.720 That's the closest analogy.

00:50:21.060 And if you go out west, for example,

00:50:22.460 and you see this all across North America,

00:50:24.700 all the small towns have dried up.

00:50:26.800 All of them.

00:50:27.420 There's hundreds and hundreds

00:50:28.560 of basically abandoned small towns in Saskatchewan.

00:50:31.920 And so what's the long-term economic viability

00:50:35.200 of these small-town reserves?

00:50:37.280 Is anybody ever going to talk about that?

00:50:39.160 Because there is none, as far as I can tell,

00:50:41.060 even hypothetically.

00:50:42.120 How is it possible for that system

00:50:44.760 and structure to survive?

00:50:46.400 And if we don't address that

00:50:47.940 in something like a national debate

00:50:49.300 that's focused on reconciliation,

00:50:50.940 which I think is the elephant under the rug,

00:50:53.520 it's like, why in the world should we assume

00:50:55.260 that we're any more honest

00:50:56.460 than our ancestors

00:50:58.840 who we're continually apologizing for?

00:51:01.040 So am I way out of line there?

00:51:04.320 Well, again, you've hit climate change as well.

00:51:07.500 And this is not false.

00:51:08.480 This is actually the case.

00:51:10.040 Climate change is one of the sacred topics

00:51:12.180 for 85% of journalists, politics,

00:51:15.360 you consult in class.

00:51:16.260 You're not supposed to go to the center of the thing.

00:51:19.000 In other words,

00:51:19.760 why would you want to close down Alberta,

00:51:22.840 but you want to criticize China?

00:51:24.220 That's logic.

00:51:25.080 In the case of the indigenous issues in this country,

00:51:27.540 I don't have anything like the amount of knowledge

00:51:30.280 you have, and even the viewers are scant.

00:51:32.240 But I do know this,

00:51:33.740 that if you wish to talk about indigenous affairs,

00:51:37.900 there's already a structure.

00:51:40.040 There's already a set of attitudes.

00:51:42.700 You're only supposed to speak in a certain direction.

00:51:45.400 And especially if you're a white journalist

00:51:48.840 who wants to comment on it at all,

00:51:51.400 this is already surrounded by a number of media taboos.

00:51:55.420 You can't put topics off limits

00:51:57.700 and then demand the change.

00:52:00.500 Again, it's like the global warming debate.

00:52:03.160 I would like to see finally

00:52:04.620 some people of genuine disinterest,

00:52:07.880 disinterest, high intelligence,

00:52:10.200 and perfect credentials

00:52:11.340 with no ties to anything else

00:52:13.640 but science.

00:52:15.160 Give me a reading.

00:52:16.280 In the case of the indigenous reserves,

00:52:19.080 it's the same and not,

00:52:20.480 it's a parallel in Newfoundland.

00:52:22.200 We have the small outboards collapsing

00:52:24.340 because the economy is dying

00:52:25.700 over the last five or six years.

00:52:26.860 There is no way in the world

00:52:28.660 that these towns that lasted for so, so long

00:52:31.640 can live any longer.

00:52:33.460 Now, you're not allowed precisely

00:52:34.620 to ask that question in the current context.

00:52:37.060 And so the debate is not only crippled,

00:52:39.000 it's stultified from the beginning.

00:52:41.800 So what that means is that

00:52:43.440 the whole reconciliation exercise

00:52:45.340 is going to end up being...

00:52:46.340 It's a show.

00:52:46.960 ...being nothing but another pack of lies.

00:52:48.760 Well, they remember, again,

00:52:51.560 the tremendous inquiry

00:52:53.160 of missing women and murdered women.

00:52:55.980 That was supposed to be

00:52:58.320 a great opening of the doors

00:53:00.360 and a final effort.

00:53:01.820 It becomes something else.

00:53:03.820 We had the tremendous parliamentary apology

00:53:06.020 when Harper was prime minister

00:53:08.240 in which the leaders, women and male,

00:53:11.080 of the aboriginal,

00:53:11.780 were in the House of Commons.

00:53:13.320 That was supposed to be

00:53:14.320 a significant constitutional moment.

00:53:16.460 It meant that, okay,

00:53:18.160 we can abandon the structure of hostility

00:53:20.440 under which we're talking,

00:53:21.800 and now we can bend our minds

00:53:23.240 to the future

00:53:23.960 and to the actual fixing

00:53:25.660 of the physical things

00:53:26.760 that need to be done.

00:53:28.140 However, as soon as the great glory

00:53:29.640 and the ceremony was over,

00:53:31.420 and it was a formal parliamentary apology,

00:53:35.640 we're still having apologies.

00:53:37.900 Most people wake up and see

00:53:39.120 that this is just form.

00:53:40.620 This is degenuflection in the church.

00:53:43.320 This is another one of those rites

00:53:45.020 that we go through,

00:53:45.840 not substance.

00:53:47.360 Send 200 civil servants

00:53:49.740 with engineering degrees

00:53:51.100 to these places

00:53:51.820 if it's just a water problem.

00:53:53.980 And I cannot believe

00:53:55.060 in the 21st century

00:53:56.120 you can't get the wells clean

00:53:58.380 or the streams dry.

00:54:00.040 And yet, we talked about that in 2015,

00:54:02.760 and you're talking about it in 2021.

00:54:04.400 So when you hear reconciliation

00:54:05.920 or a new understanding

00:54:07.780 or a land acknowledgement,

00:54:09.740 that's the kind of spiritual tax

00:54:11.460 that you pay

00:54:12.120 because you don't do anything.

00:54:13.800 And so do you think

00:54:17.160 that my analogy

00:54:18.080 between the

00:54:19.020 at least

00:54:21.060 a sizable

00:54:22.080 proportion

00:54:23.340 of the reserves

00:54:24.060 and the doomed

00:54:24.820 small towns

00:54:25.580 across Canada,

00:54:26.480 does that seem accurate to you?

00:54:28.260 Then there's the problem

00:54:29.280 of endemic alcohol abuse,

00:54:32.120 which no one will talk about.

00:54:33.400 And I'm not pointing a finger

00:54:34.680 and blaming.

00:54:35.460 I mean,

00:54:35.820 not at all.

00:54:36.560 And I come from

00:54:37.200 an isolated northern community,

00:54:38.620 and I know what that's like.

00:54:39.760 But it's like we are children.

00:54:41.520 We can't have a serious discussion

00:54:42.900 about these things.

00:54:43.800 It's like,

00:54:44.140 OK, there's a terrible problem.

00:54:45.980 Yeah, well,

00:54:46.460 terrible problems

00:54:47.160 are really hard to talk about.

00:54:48.520 Just exactly what is the problem?

00:54:50.520 This is the mark

00:54:51.720 of current culture

00:54:53.720 and civilization and media.

00:54:55.260 You have crime problems

00:54:56.900 in Toronto.

00:54:58.360 What's the solution?

00:54:59.760 Ban long rifles.

00:55:00.580 We know it's not

00:55:01.360 ban long rifles.

00:55:02.820 We know that there are thugs

00:55:04.200 with handguns

00:55:05.480 that they get from the states.

00:55:06.960 They are in specific quarters

00:55:08.160 of these cities.

00:55:09.480 We have had this gun argument

00:55:11.120 unrelated to the actual facts

00:55:13.580 of the case,

00:55:14.540 because if you cite

00:55:15.540 those facts specifically,

00:55:17.380 you will be hounded

00:55:18.200 with all sorts

00:55:19.040 of the new anathemas

00:55:19.980 of racism and whatever

00:55:22.140 the particular cause is.

00:55:24.100 If you bring up

00:55:24.860 the actual items

00:55:26.040 that give great disparity

00:55:27.800 to native peoples

00:55:28.760 in this country,

00:55:29.760 all of them,

00:55:30.780 then you will be under attack

00:55:32.160 for something else again.

00:55:33.260 It is a mark

00:55:34.380 of Western discussions

00:55:35.800 and Western politics

00:55:37.040 that we have an automatic

00:55:40.120 and silent cancellation mechanism.

00:55:43.100 Here's the amount

00:55:43.960 of intelligent remark

00:55:45.820 which we'll permit

00:55:47.280 in an open room.

00:55:48.960 And by the way,

00:55:49.540 so many people

00:55:50.200 who make these little discussions

00:55:51.600 and have these grand conferences,

00:55:53.720 they know they are empty

00:55:55.080 from the beginning

00:55:55.820 because they know

00:55:56.680 they're not saying 90%

00:55:58.240 of what they know.

00:55:59.780 And it goes to other issues too.

00:56:01.300 It goes to teaching in school,

00:56:03.500 the trans movement,

00:56:04.400 the idea that this special services guy

00:56:07.480 yesterday,

00:56:08.500 180 pounds or something,

00:56:09.940 strangled some woman

00:56:10.800 and no one will stand up

00:56:12.440 and say,

00:56:13.300 you know something,

00:56:14.260 you're mad,

00:56:15.360 you're crazy,

00:56:16.400 and the idea

00:56:17.000 we let a special service

00:56:18.160 And you're sadistic.

00:56:19.780 And you're sadistic.

00:56:20.680 And you're narcissistic.

00:56:22.460 And you're a man

00:56:23.220 who just beat the hell

00:56:24.160 out of a woman

00:56:24.740 and is bragging about it.

00:56:25.960 Yeah,

00:56:26.160 but it's an index.

00:56:28.200 I'm going to use an example.

00:56:29.300 It's an index

00:56:29.940 of this curious

00:56:30.860 bending of the mind,

00:56:33.540 the shutting down

00:56:34.520 of three quarters

00:56:35.700 of the processes

00:56:36.440 of the mind

00:56:37.060 to accommodate

00:56:38.200 woke culture,

00:56:39.300 political correctness.

00:56:40.720 In the last interview

00:56:42.180 we had,

00:56:42.640 the more calm one,

00:56:44.500 we were throwing away

00:56:45.520 the intellectual credibility

00:56:47.040 and integrity

00:56:48.420 of Western thought.

00:56:50.560 And it finally rolled

00:56:51.760 into politics.

00:56:51.940 You can sure see,

00:56:52.840 yeah,

00:56:53.580 you'd look and see

00:56:54.540 what's happening.

00:56:55.260 Just watch as that

00:56:56.160 continues to deteriorate.

00:56:58.000 We're going to have

00:56:58.740 debates structured

00:56:59.560 like the one we just saw,

00:57:01.360 where we cede the territory

00:57:03.240 right from the beginning

00:57:04.300 and we don't even notice.

00:57:06.900 And Erno too,

00:57:08.040 if he were a real

00:57:09.100 opposition leader,

00:57:10.460 instead of going along

00:57:11.660 with the group here,

00:57:13.040 he would have stood

00:57:13.680 in the middle

00:57:14.160 when his turn came

00:57:15.260 and said,

00:57:16.200 I've seen the debate

00:57:17.120 function and I've seen

00:57:18.240 the list of questions here.

00:57:19.860 They're all off.

00:57:21.380 You're not dealing

00:57:22.200 with the central ones.

00:57:23.300 I disagree with the format.

00:57:24.660 I think they're,

00:57:25.340 make the case,

00:57:26.500 challenge the assumptions,

00:57:27.660 but no, no.

00:57:29.160 We're a conference society.

00:57:30.880 I've seen this time

00:57:31.760 and time again

00:57:32.320 with conservatives.

00:57:33.680 They don't notice

00:57:35.300 when they've been beat

00:57:36.540 to begin with.

00:57:38.000 And they won't object.

00:57:39.420 And a lot of it's terror.

00:57:40.660 A lot of it's terror

00:57:41.480 about being singled out

00:57:42.620 and mobbed.

00:57:44.140 And like this,

00:57:44.720 this incursion

00:57:46.340 of morality

00:57:47.060 into the political domain

00:57:48.280 is really hard on people

00:57:49.400 because it is hard

00:57:50.320 to be singled out

00:57:51.480 and mobbed.

00:57:52.160 And it is hard

00:57:53.060 to be pilloried

00:57:53.980 for your immorality

00:57:55.200 just because you're

00:57:56.160 trying to think.

00:57:57.360 But it's also subtle.

00:57:59.360 You know,

00:57:59.580 it took me till halfway

00:58:00.480 through the debate

00:58:01.160 till I realized that,

00:58:02.280 oh, I see.

00:58:03.240 This was lost

00:58:04.020 on the center

00:58:05.080 and on the right.

00:58:06.380 This was lost

00:58:06.980 to begin with.

00:58:07.820 Of course it was.

00:58:08.440 Who cares what anyone says?

00:58:09.900 It's like you already

00:58:11.020 agreed to the terms

00:58:12.180 of the conversation.

00:58:13.740 And a bigger point

00:58:14.520 about the debate

00:58:15.200 is something else.

00:58:16.340 As I've noted,

00:58:17.100 there were two in Quebec

00:58:18.080 and one in...

00:58:19.200 We are a democracy

00:58:20.920 of 40 million people,

00:58:22.720 10 provinces,

00:58:23.500 three vast landscape.

00:58:25.420 And there are,

00:58:25.880 in my judgment,

00:58:26.900 there are five

00:58:27.420 separate mentalities

00:58:28.400 or maybe six in Canada.

00:58:29.740 The Atlantic region,

00:58:30.580 Quebec has its own,

00:58:31.400 obviously.

00:58:31.780 Ontario,

00:58:32.260 do you understand?

00:58:32.860 The prairies.

00:58:33.640 BC has its own place,

00:58:34.700 the north and other things.

00:58:36.320 There are no...

00:58:37.800 There's no possible reason

00:58:39.460 in a national election

00:58:41.020 that you don't at least

00:58:42.680 visit five

00:58:43.700 of the separate regions

00:58:45.040 and have the local people

00:58:46.740 in those regions,

00:58:48.040 but as an audience

00:58:48.920 and as a panel,

00:58:50.500 tell the politicians

00:58:51.600 what the issues are.

00:58:53.340 Instead,

00:58:53.760 we've shrunk it

00:58:54.600 to one little tiny thing

00:58:56.420 with a gallery

00:58:57.580 of the most cases,

00:58:58.780 the usual journalists.

00:59:00.280 We cram four

00:59:01.240 and five leaders,

00:59:02.080 three of whom

00:59:02.460 shouldn't be there.

00:59:03.800 The debate itself

00:59:04.820 was nugatory.

00:59:06.000 It was odious.

00:59:06.900 It was empty.

00:59:08.220 We need much more.

00:59:10.540 We're allowing politics

00:59:11.840 to be managed

00:59:12.840 by the politicians

00:59:13.760 and the journalists.

00:59:15.320 And this election

00:59:16.060 is one of the most

00:59:16.740 cynical I've ever seen.

00:59:20.140 So let's talk

00:59:21.140 about the leaders,

00:59:22.080 let's say.

00:59:22.420 Okay.

00:59:22.760 Also about the

00:59:23.900 sort of stunning absence

00:59:25.700 of Maxime Bernier.

00:59:27.480 I mean,

00:59:28.100 you have...

00:59:31.300 The person

00:59:32.460 that I was most impressed with,

00:59:33.900 I would say,

00:59:34.380 in the debate,

00:59:34.960 all things considered,

00:59:35.840 was probably

00:59:36.640 the Bloc Québécois,

00:59:37.800 leader,

00:59:38.300 much as I hate

00:59:38.880 to say that.

00:59:39.480 I mean,

00:59:39.640 there's lots

00:59:40.020 of his policies

00:59:40.700 that I find rather,

00:59:43.280 well,

00:59:43.520 let's say,

00:59:43.860 not in the best

00:59:44.560 interests of Canadians

00:59:45.640 per se,

00:59:46.400 but I mean,

00:59:46.760 he makes no bones

00:59:47.560 about that.

00:59:48.540 But he was the only

00:59:49.680 person who I saw

00:59:51.300 in that whole debate

00:59:52.080 sort of hold his own

00:59:53.220 against the moralizing

00:59:54.280 of the journalists.

00:59:55.540 Yeah.

00:59:55.940 and also who dared

00:59:58.060 at least upon occasion

00:59:59.140 to say what he thought.

01:00:01.460 And it was...

01:00:02.660 The rest of it

01:00:03.180 seemed to me

01:00:03.700 to be an exercise

01:00:04.580 in not stepping on a mine,

01:00:06.800 something like that.

01:00:07.900 Mm-hmm.

01:00:08.280 An exercise

01:00:08.820 in not saying anything

01:00:09.800 that was going to cause trouble.

01:00:11.360 You've got it.

01:00:11.860 And so,

01:00:13.740 Anna Mee Paul,

01:00:15.920 it was strange

01:00:17.100 that she had...

01:00:18.020 It's a strange thing

01:00:18.940 to see her

01:00:19.740 discuss on equal footing

01:00:22.920 in some sense

01:00:23.740 with the prime minister

01:00:24.680 and the leader

01:00:25.900 of the opposition.

01:00:27.520 That's a very strange thing

01:00:29.300 because she doesn't have

01:00:31.340 the political support

01:00:35.300 to justify that.

01:00:36.420 And I know that's hard.

01:00:37.400 It's hard to figure out

01:00:38.080 who to include

01:00:38.660 in these leadership debates

01:00:39.920 or not,

01:00:40.400 but that was another example

01:00:42.160 of ceding the territory

01:00:43.280 in a terrible way.

01:00:46.440 So...

01:00:46.920 Well, there's two things

01:00:48.220 I'd like to say

01:00:48.760 about that particular one.

01:00:50.740 Green is another

01:00:52.420 religious subject,

01:00:53.380 so it's a lot harder

01:00:54.300 from the point of view

01:00:56.780 of correctness

01:00:57.380 to keep out a green person.

01:00:59.160 But the biggest objection

01:01:00.800 to Anna Mee Paul,

01:01:01.600 not on our person at all,

01:01:03.660 is that we've seen

01:01:04.640 in the last two

01:01:05.280 and three and four weeks

01:01:06.200 that her green party

01:01:08.720 is essentially

01:01:09.360 a live grenade

01:01:10.240 busily destroying itself.

01:01:12.960 And the idea

01:01:13.840 that the leader

01:01:14.440 of a party

01:01:14.900 that is obviously

01:01:16.040 in self-dissolution

01:01:18.260 gets to stand up

01:01:19.900 in the full leader's debate,

01:01:21.860 that's comical.

01:01:23.200 She's a nice woman.

01:01:24.200 She's very smart.

01:01:25.240 A couple of really good lines.

01:01:26.980 But what is this party of two

01:01:29.660 of which she is not the one

01:01:31.420 in the House of Parliament

01:01:33.460 eating up the time

01:01:35.480 on the state?

01:01:36.000 We should have a debate

01:01:36.960 between leaders

01:01:38.080 who can become prime ministers

01:01:40.160 and secondary debates

01:01:41.860 among those who aspire,

01:01:43.180 and they should be Canada-wide,

01:01:45.240 and they should not be limited

01:01:46.560 to one English debate

01:01:48.240 with about 400 people on stage.

01:01:50.760 This is really a folly.

01:01:53.640 And as far as you get,

01:01:54.860 she's there,

01:01:55.760 but Elizabeth May is still,

01:01:57.660 whatever she's doing,

01:01:58.780 she is still the Green Party,

01:02:00.040 and the Green Party

01:02:00.660 is now more anti-Israel

01:02:02.280 than it is pro-Earth.

01:02:03.260 So tell me,

01:02:07.840 let's, okay,

01:02:08.660 do you have anything else

01:02:09.600 that you wanted to say

01:02:10.440 about the debate?

01:02:12.100 We really, really haven't talked

01:02:13.540 anything about the content,

01:02:14.920 about what the various leaders

01:02:16.940 actually had to say

01:02:17.920 on each of these topics.

01:02:19.000 Well, just one more thing

01:02:21.360 on the debate.

01:02:22.960 In Canada over the years,

01:02:24.500 we have allowed the actions

01:02:26.560 of politics

01:02:27.180 to become so professionalized.

01:02:29.900 It used to be an amateur effort,

01:02:31.760 and you'd round up your buddies,

01:02:32.780 and you'd do all this campaigning

01:02:34.100 even a year in advance.

01:02:35.460 Now you have the consultants,

01:02:37.000 the strategy teams,

01:02:38.340 the experts hired

01:02:39.500 from down in the States.

01:02:40.960 You've got people

01:02:41.760 who make a living

01:02:42.740 just running political campaigns.

01:02:45.000 You have the TV consultants

01:02:46.560 and the fashion consultants,

01:02:48.260 and it's all some

01:02:49.380 great, glorious meeting

01:02:50.940 of these very brilliant

01:02:52.480 and yuppie fixers.

01:02:56.300 But as far as going out

01:02:57.700 and saying,

01:02:58.320 oh, I think I'll take three,

01:03:00.100 Justin or Erno to,

01:03:02.540 really,

01:03:03.640 I'll drop the goddamn entourage.

01:03:06.400 I'll go up

01:03:07.000 and I'm going to sit

01:03:07.880 in this reserve

01:03:08.940 for a week and a half.

01:03:10.600 I'm going to actually look

01:03:11.900 and see what it's like.

01:03:13.000 Or I'll go over to Northern BC

01:03:15.320 and see what those guys are at.

01:03:17.040 How many cabinet meetings

01:03:18.440 have been held

01:03:19.000 in Fort McMurray

01:03:20.000 to actually hear

01:03:21.220 the views of those

01:03:22.660 who are under the assailant

01:03:24.300 of their principal policy?

01:03:26.480 You can go to Paris,

01:03:27.580 you can go to Rio de Janeiro,

01:03:29.240 you can go to Glasgow in November,

01:03:31.140 but you can't visit the site

01:03:32.680 where the people,

01:03:34.340 the people are working.

01:03:35.880 It's become professionalized,

01:03:37.420 it's become a hobby,

01:03:38.760 it's become a game.

01:03:40.700 And the calling

01:03:41.820 of this election,

01:03:42.960 there was no motive for it,

01:03:44.200 there was no national crisis,

01:03:46.000 there was no specific occasion

01:03:47.580 on which Mr. Trudeau

01:03:48.640 looked around

01:03:49.500 in the House of Commons

01:03:50.540 and said,

01:03:51.380 this house

01:03:52.680 can no longer function,

01:03:54.560 I must call it,

01:03:55.480 and here is the issue.

01:03:57.540 So the debates

01:03:58.360 are all part

01:03:59.580 of that plastic effort

01:04:01.080 to make it look real.

01:04:02.960 It's a game played

01:04:03.860 by the people within it,

01:04:05.560 and people I talk to

01:04:07.140 generally,

01:04:08.100 the people you meet

01:04:09.340 on the streets

01:04:10.260 and everywhere else.

01:04:11.980 They have no time

01:04:12.900 for this at all.

01:04:14.280 They really say,

01:04:15.080 get it over with.

01:04:16.360 What are we doing here?

01:04:17.980 And it's in the middle

01:04:20.000 of the pandemic

01:04:20.860 at the time

01:04:22.320 that Afghanistan

01:04:23.080 is being overrun

01:04:24.200 by militant fundamentalists.

01:04:26.240 I think it's so sad.

01:04:31.200 So let me ask you,

01:04:32.320 you've been watching politics

01:04:33.440 for a very,

01:04:34.120 very long time

01:04:34.880 and thinking about it

01:04:36.840 for a very,

01:04:37.400 very long time.

01:04:38.100 And so,

01:04:38.960 when you look at

01:04:39.800 Justin Trudeau,

01:04:41.380 I'd like your opinion

01:04:42.340 about Trudeau

01:04:43.060 and who he is

01:04:44.380 and what he's done

01:04:45.000 over the last couple of years.

01:04:46.320 and I'd like you

01:04:48.100 to maybe contrast him

01:04:49.320 with other leaders

01:04:50.880 that Canada's had

01:04:51.960 that you've been

01:04:52.660 rather intimately familiar with

01:04:54.640 or at least compared

01:04:55.840 to most people.

01:04:56.820 So,

01:04:57.300 what do you see?

01:05:00.580 Well,

01:05:00.820 I've seen the case

01:05:01.380 of Mr. Trudeau,

01:05:02.500 and I'll keep it

01:05:03.220 as mild as I can.

01:05:06.360 The capacity

01:05:07.360 is not there.

01:05:09.160 If you contrast him

01:05:10.740 with Stephen Harper

01:05:12.120 or his father,

01:05:13.160 and I did have

01:05:14.940 a couple

01:05:15.540 of lengthy sessions

01:05:16.640 with Pierre Trudeau,

01:05:19.600 and it's not to be mean,

01:05:21.620 but the contrast

01:05:22.660 between the capacity,

01:05:24.580 the range of knowledge,

01:05:26.800 depth of personality

01:05:28.060 is really something else.

01:05:30.320 In the case of Mr. Harper,

01:05:31.660 the contrast there is,

01:05:33.440 and just a side note,

01:05:35.640 I do not understand

01:05:36.900 why Harper

01:05:38.160 has become such a symbol

01:05:40.160 of a venomous bear.

01:05:41.360 He's the sauron.

01:05:42.220 He's a very intelligent,

01:05:45.040 quite diligent,

01:05:46.860 introspective,

01:05:48.480 and concerned about

01:05:50.000 actually doing the task.

01:05:52.220 I think Harper

01:05:52.900 was one of the most modest

01:05:55.040 in terms of public display.

01:05:58.600 But when we come now

01:05:59.660 to the current situation,

01:06:01.740 the preparation is not there.

01:06:03.880 It was a kind of idle life.

01:06:06.500 I found the episode

01:06:07.640 in India

01:06:08.340 more distressing

01:06:10.460 than probably

01:06:10.940 in most other people.

01:06:11.720 it wasn't the fact

01:06:12.520 that he adopted

01:06:13.880 the costume

01:06:14.440 of a foreign country

01:06:15.300 and he's a prime minister

01:06:16.180 of this one.

01:06:17.500 It was that he was done

01:06:18.240 for so long.

01:06:19.700 It was five or six days

01:06:21.360 in which a prime minister

01:06:23.180 of a great first world country

01:06:25.260 visiting another

01:06:26.020 of deep civilization

01:06:27.380 conducts this play

01:06:30.320 with his whole family.

01:06:31.480 And then we come to this present moment.

01:06:33.860 And then we come to this present moment.

01:06:34.360 He makes these commitments.

01:06:36.200 He's a feminist.

01:06:37.420 Well,

01:06:37.760 he chases the three strongest women

01:06:39.560 in his cabinet.

01:06:40.560 One is a white doctor.

01:06:41.860 One is an aboriginal lawyer.

01:06:44.180 One is one of the most dynamic

01:06:46.420 black candidates

01:06:48.880 that we have ever seen.

01:06:50.400 He hits all the bases

01:06:51.540 that he's supposed to admire.

01:06:52.840 Every single major theme,

01:06:56.360 diversity,

01:06:57.440 respect,

01:06:58.060 equality,

01:06:58.800 inclusion,

01:06:59.460 women,

01:06:59.960 feminism,

01:07:00.960 every single one of these

01:07:02.260 have been tumbled down.

01:07:03.800 And you said

01:07:04.640 the contrast with others.

01:07:05.840 I could contrast

01:07:07.120 with some premiers.

01:07:08.680 I know that Joey Smallwood

01:07:10.220 in his day

01:07:10.820 became hectic,

01:07:12.740 careless,

01:07:13.320 and scandal-ridden.

01:07:14.800 I know other premiers

01:07:15.520 were as well.

01:07:16.740 If I were to contrast

01:07:17.880 it with Peter Lougheed,

01:07:19.620 Lougheed had the gravitas

01:07:20.900 that when he spoke,

01:07:22.980 there's something,

01:07:23.680 yeah,

01:07:23.880 that's a very good point.

01:07:25.280 In this particular period

01:07:26.880 of the pandemic,

01:07:28.440 the economic distresses

01:07:29.660 that are going

01:07:30.120 to hundreds of thousands

01:07:31.700 of houses in this country

01:07:32.880 and the shadow of Afghanistan,

01:07:35.840 our leaders

01:07:37.000 should have a podium

01:07:38.260 some once or twice

01:07:39.680 to come out

01:07:40.620 and speak

01:07:41.140 as the Prime Minister

01:07:42.440 of Canada,

01:07:43.140 not the Liberal Council.

01:07:44.380 Not that.

01:07:45.220 Canada,

01:07:45.820 here's where we are.

01:07:47.260 People of Canada,

01:07:48.180 I know what you are enduring.

01:07:49.880 Not sloganizing,

01:07:50.960 we got your back

01:07:51.840 and I'm spending this money

01:07:52.980 so you...

01:07:53.560 No.

01:07:54.560 Here's the serious situation

01:07:56.200 and there are bigger things

01:07:57.840 coming up,

01:07:58.680 maybe harder things.

01:08:00.400 Maybe the next two years

01:08:01.460 won't be building back better.

01:08:03.780 Maybe we're going

01:08:04.340 to be facing a period

01:08:05.320 of real urgency

01:08:06.480 and demanding more work

01:08:08.420 than we've ever done

01:08:09.340 and we may have to cut back

01:08:10.980 but I want you to know

01:08:12.340 I'm here

01:08:12.900 and I'm not here

01:08:13.840 to divide you

01:08:14.680 and I'd like to,

01:08:15.760 you know,

01:08:16.000 take the pressure off

01:08:17.040 of Alberta

01:08:17.500 if it's at all possible.

01:08:18.900 Stop picking on one province.

01:08:21.560 Where's the leader doing that?

01:08:23.460 Mr. O'Toole,

01:08:24.120 by the way,

01:08:24.460 I'm saying all that

01:08:25.100 about Mr. Trudeau.

01:08:26.340 Mr. O'Toole

01:08:27.040 is a quieter man

01:08:28.460 and I think he probably

01:08:29.380 has more depth

01:08:30.380 in terms of character

01:08:31.760 because of what he was

01:08:32.740 but he seems to me

01:08:34.160 to be playing

01:08:34.940 a political game.

01:08:36.780 Where's the strong

01:08:38.080 North core?

01:08:38.400 I think that he's been

01:08:40.220 handled into

01:08:41.720 No, that's a bad sign.

01:08:43.120 A liberal, essentially,

01:08:44.500 into basically adopting

01:08:46.220 the liberal policy.

01:08:48.700 He's accepting the ethos

01:08:50.240 that you don't offend.

01:08:51.680 Yes.

01:08:52.460 Yes.

01:08:53.240 And that's a bad sign

01:08:54.480 because you need spine,

01:08:56.360 you need the integrity

01:08:57.340 of someone.

01:08:57.900 I've actually thought about it,

01:08:58.960 meaning the leader.

01:09:00.020 I've actually thought about this

01:09:01.240 and you know,

01:09:02.180 it's going to be hard news

01:09:03.220 for you folks

01:09:03.760 but this is what

01:09:04.620 we're going to do now.

01:09:05.580 But this campaign so far,

01:09:07.800 they've jumped from abortion

01:09:08.800 to gun rights

01:09:10.580 to the anti-vaxxers.

01:09:12.820 I'm skipping a couple.

01:09:14.200 They've tried out

01:09:15.060 various little buttons

01:09:16.340 to see if they can make

01:09:17.800 the puppets dance

01:09:18.740 which tell me

01:09:19.800 only one thing.

01:09:21.040 They do not have an issue.

01:09:23.040 They called it for nothing

01:09:24.160 except they're either worried

01:09:25.340 about the next two years

01:09:26.320 and wanted better cover

01:09:27.940 or because the polls told them

01:09:29.840 they could get a majority.

01:09:30.620 In other words,

01:09:31.640 it was internal.

01:09:32.760 It was of them.

01:09:34.320 It was of the politicians.

01:09:36.020 Not of the public.

01:09:38.760 I'm preaching at you.

01:09:39.760 So what made me

01:09:41.020 skeptical about Trudeau

01:09:42.800 to begin with,

01:09:43.800 I'd like your opinion

01:09:45.100 on this,

01:09:46.260 is that

01:09:46.680 it wasn't obvious to me

01:09:51.060 that he had the

01:09:52.080 preparation for the job

01:09:53.820 by any stretch

01:09:55.100 of the imagination.

01:09:55.740 It's a very hard job

01:09:56.940 and it is a job

01:09:58.180 that would be too hard for me.

01:09:59.780 I know that.

01:10:01.320 And so I'm not saying

01:10:03.000 this as someone

01:10:03.820 who thinks he could step in

01:10:05.060 and do this properly.

01:10:06.820 It's a very stressful job

01:10:07.980 and it's very complicated.

01:10:09.640 But I think that also means

01:10:11.060 that you have to

01:10:11.840 be very careful

01:10:12.760 when you decide

01:10:13.480 that you're the guy

01:10:14.060 to do it.

01:10:14.620 And if Mr. Trudeau's

01:10:17.380 last name had been

01:10:18.220 anything other than Trudeau,

01:10:19.980 he wouldn't have ever been

01:10:21.740 the leader of the Liberal Party

01:10:23.260 or the Prime Minister

01:10:24.560 of Canada.

01:10:25.080 and it seems to me,

01:10:27.160 it isn't clear to me

01:10:28.060 how you'd have to think

01:10:29.520 in order to think

01:10:31.120 that that was actually okay.

01:10:33.700 Like, what do you,

01:10:34.680 what do you have to think

01:10:35.580 to believe that,

01:10:36.960 oh, well, you know,

01:10:37.720 I really don't know

01:10:38.620 how to do this.

01:10:39.420 I'm not prepared for it.

01:10:40.400 I don't have the educational

01:10:41.280 background

01:10:41.740 or the experiential background,

01:10:43.500 but everyone knows my name.

01:10:46.760 I've got name brand recognition,

01:10:48.360 man.

01:10:48.540 I've really got that.

01:10:49.520 And so it's okay

01:10:50.420 if I'm Prime Minister.

01:10:51.780 It's like, actually,

01:10:52.460 it's not okay.

01:10:54.180 Actually.

01:10:54.900 That's requiring

01:10:56.240 a degree of introspection

01:11:00.160 that I wouldn't anticipate.

01:11:01.560 But here's a real answer.

01:11:03.600 And it just doesn't relate

01:11:05.820 just to him at all.

01:11:07.540 We've now entered

01:11:08.460 this new world

01:11:09.420 where the celebrity,

01:11:11.100 the word celebrity

01:11:11.700 has changed since 1970.

01:11:13.500 You know,

01:11:14.120 where someone

01:11:14.660 pumps up their rear end

01:11:16.500 and becomes

01:11:16.980 an international star.

01:11:18.840 People who exist

01:11:20.520 only on the tinsel

01:11:22.260 of celebrity,

01:11:23.720 which is celebrity

01:11:24.300 is fame without achievement.

01:11:25.600 If you want to have

01:11:26.380 a real definition,

01:11:27.760 fame with nothing behind it.

01:11:29.800 And in this new world,

01:11:31.380 if you have a name

01:11:32.560 or if you're flashed

01:11:33.420 on a screen

01:11:33.960 or if you can get

01:11:34.680 in Vogue magazine,

01:11:36.260 you take the advantages

01:11:38.220 that come with it.

01:11:39.620 And if that means

01:11:40.660 a hundred million dollars

01:11:41.620 to do with Netflix

01:11:42.420 for Dreary Megan

01:11:43.880 and whatever his name is,

01:11:45.340 or if I can wander

01:11:46.740 into the political office

01:11:47.920 for five years

01:11:48.700 and I have my subordinates

01:11:50.880 and friends

01:11:51.360 take care of the problems.

01:11:53.220 I like the altitude

01:11:54.660 and I like the exhibition

01:11:56.760 and I like the fact

01:11:58.600 that, you know,

01:11:59.160 the world's going

01:11:59.780 to be looking at me.

01:12:00.360 For the first year

01:12:00.980 and a half, incidentally,

01:12:02.440 it was difficult

01:12:03.480 to determine

01:12:04.360 whether he was going

01:12:05.800 to end up

01:12:06.200 in People magazine

01:12:06.960 or foreign policy,

01:12:07.900 but it was obviously

01:12:08.780 People magazine.

01:12:10.120 I'm using an old reference.

01:12:12.820 Celebrity culture,

01:12:13.760 modern culture

01:12:14.360 is all over itself

01:12:16.180 giving positions

01:12:17.360 and authority

01:12:18.560 to those

01:12:19.740 who wield them

01:12:20.540 only for the status

01:12:21.860 attached to them

01:12:22.740 and not for the competence

01:12:24.200 that they bring

01:12:24.860 to the task.

01:12:25.740 Look at journalism.

01:12:27.520 Well, so the question

01:12:28.840 is there,

01:12:29.440 how is it

01:12:30.400 that you justify

01:12:31.220 that to yourself

01:12:32.120 in your own mind?

01:12:33.000 Do you say something

01:12:33.780 like, well,

01:12:34.800 look,

01:12:35.100 the Liberal Party

01:12:36.640 came to me

01:12:37.520 and they did come to him

01:12:39.420 and, you know,

01:12:40.660 maybe better the Liberals

01:12:42.240 than anyone else

01:12:43.160 and I do have

01:12:43.960 the name brand recognition

01:12:45.400 and, I mean,

01:12:47.060 what's the rationalization there?

01:12:48.600 Well, there's the,

01:12:49.460 and the other rationalization

01:12:50.640 and I pity them

01:12:51.860 if they believe it.

01:12:53.620 I pity them

01:12:54.280 if they believe it.

01:12:55.960 On hardcore Liberals,

01:12:57.880 I'm not a Liberal

01:12:58.500 or a Conservative

01:12:59.160 in any formal sense.

01:13:00.760 On hardcore Liberals,

01:13:02.620 Conservatives

01:13:03.520 are looked down

01:13:04.560 upon as Neanderthal,

01:13:06.540 they're racist,

01:13:07.420 they're Nazis.

01:13:08.680 Harper really is a demon.

01:13:11.140 Now, if you can believe that,

01:13:13.160 you've either taken leave

01:13:14.540 of your mental faculties

01:13:15.860 or they never visited

01:13:17.060 in the first place.

01:13:18.340 But there are some Liberals,

01:13:19.680 and I adjust this one.

01:13:20.540 He said there

01:13:21.040 before he was Prime Minister,

01:13:22.960 he was in an interview

01:13:23.820 in Quebec,

01:13:25.040 that, you know,

01:13:25.560 if the policies

01:13:26.260 of Stephen Harper

01:13:27.260 were to continue

01:13:29.040 in Canada,

01:13:30.300 if Canada became

01:13:31.440 the Canada

01:13:32.000 of the Stephen Harper

01:13:33.400 policies,

01:13:33.980 then he would have

01:13:34.960 to consider separation.

01:13:37.080 I don't know

01:13:37.840 where he got that,

01:13:39.680 but the idea

01:13:40.340 that Stephen Harper

01:13:41.280 was a malignant

01:13:42.120 administrator

01:13:43.120 of this country

01:13:44.020 is worse than insult.

01:13:46.660 And then,

01:13:47.140 because I'm so honorable,

01:13:48.720 I would have to say,

01:13:50.060 let's take Quebec

01:13:51.040 out of Canada.

01:13:52.260 That's a delusion.

01:13:53.620 And even two days ago,

01:13:55.260 when he's asked

01:13:55.980 other questions

01:13:56.660 about vaccinations

01:13:57.560 and stuff,

01:13:59.080 he hauls,

01:13:59.980 poor old Stephen Harper

01:14:00.900 must be very tired

01:14:01.880 getting hauled

01:14:03.280 out of the closet

01:14:03.840 every six days

01:14:04.680 by Justin Trudeau.

01:14:07.300 Now,

01:14:08.020 it's the carelessness

01:14:08.680 of the modern age.

01:14:10.120 People take on tasks

01:14:11.140 they're not acquainted with.

01:14:12.700 Liberals are

01:14:13.480 the savior of the world.

01:14:14.460 Oh, yes,

01:14:15.080 go back to the very beginning.

01:14:16.620 I'm also one,

01:14:17.940 I will be leading

01:14:18.900 the salvation

01:14:19.840 of the world

01:14:20.520 because I will tackle

01:14:22.240 global climate change.

01:14:24.440 Religious messianism

01:14:26.260 is a well-known phenomenon.

01:14:28.240 You've got a slight

01:14:29.180 instance of it here

01:14:30.340 transferred to politics.

01:14:31.940 It's not the introspection

01:14:32.900 you're looking for.

01:14:34.380 The cloud comes down.

01:14:35.180 He said,

01:14:35.740 as he said it

01:14:36.280 to his wife Sophie,

01:14:37.240 I was put on earth

01:14:39.040 for this.

01:14:40.180 That's a bad attitude

01:14:41.080 to have

01:14:41.520 if you're entering politics.

01:14:43.060 It really is.

01:14:47.800 So,

01:14:48.440 we've done a lot

01:14:49.420 of complaining,

01:14:50.240 you and me.

01:14:50.780 Oh, I'm great complaining.

01:14:53.060 Yeah, yeah.

01:14:54.100 And so,

01:14:54.620 and we're,

01:14:55.300 you know,

01:14:55.600 we're fortunate

01:14:56.400 to be in the position

01:14:57.440 where we can complain

01:14:58.920 and we can complain freely.

01:15:00.760 So far.

01:15:01.240 And so far,

01:15:03.160 so far.

01:15:06.420 Where do we go

01:15:07.360 from here?

01:15:08.140 Like,

01:15:09.240 where do Canadians

01:15:10.380 go from here?

01:15:11.780 What do we do

01:15:12.380 with this election?

01:15:13.820 And,

01:15:14.000 and what do you see

01:15:16.040 our way forward properly?

01:15:17.840 I know those are,

01:15:18.940 they're naive questions

01:15:20.560 in some sense,

01:15:21.500 I suppose.

01:15:22.200 But,

01:15:22.280 but they are the questions.

01:15:23.820 but not the problem.

01:15:26.240 The fact is,

01:15:27.260 of course,

01:15:27.540 the election

01:15:28.000 is only the illustration

01:15:29.200 of the deeper problem.

01:15:31.140 And the deeper problem,

01:15:32.420 and I'm not being pretentious,

01:15:34.600 is what we had,

01:15:35.340 we talked about

01:15:35.980 for a considerable time

01:15:37.040 in the previous interview.

01:15:39.040 This is just an instance

01:15:40.460 of an ethic,

01:15:42.080 of a style.

01:15:43.200 It's an instance

01:15:44.020 of the new Western attitude

01:15:46.100 where you self-derogate,

01:15:47.780 where you attempt

01:15:48.960 to cripple

01:15:49.560 your own advantage,

01:15:51.200 when you take on

01:15:52.000 guilts that are not your own,

01:15:54.000 when you assume virtues,

01:15:55.940 and you assume

01:15:56.760 that the assumption

01:15:57.520 of the virtues

01:15:58.140 is the performance

01:15:59.140 of the virtues,

01:16:00.560 which is not true.

01:16:01.800 In other words,

01:16:02.520 it's idle in that sense,

01:16:03.840 it's vain in another,

01:16:05.320 and we've allowed

01:16:06.020 our intellectual capacity

01:16:08.140 to greatly devolve.

01:16:11.300 We've outlawed

01:16:12.580 honest,

01:16:13.400 strong argument,

01:16:15.400 and instead we traffic,

01:16:16.440 and this is mainly

01:16:17.060 from the left,

01:16:18.100 we traffic in

01:16:18.740 ugly insults

01:16:19.840 and horrible terms

01:16:22.000 and chase people

01:16:22.780 off platforms.

01:16:24.000 This is the 21st century

01:16:25.520 in a Western democracy,

01:16:27.600 as we said

01:16:28.200 in the last one.

01:16:29.120 So how do you think

01:16:30.820 that in such a context,

01:16:31.960 when the schools

01:16:32.720 are running mad

01:16:34.580 with their cult-favorite causes

01:16:36.540 rather than doing

01:16:37.340 the job of teaching

01:16:38.280 literature and music

01:16:39.300 and mathematics,

01:16:40.860 when the universities

01:16:41.780 have allowed

01:16:42.920 great streams

01:16:43.960 of third-rate

01:16:44.860 and fourth-rate

01:16:45.700 fallacious thought

01:16:46.720 wander in,

01:16:47.380 how do you think

01:16:48.480 politics would be

01:16:49.340 spared from this?

01:16:50.580 We are a harvest

01:16:51.920 of things past.

01:16:53.060 Where do we go

01:16:53.480 from here?

01:16:54.540 I suppose

01:16:55.400 it is feeble.

01:16:57.640 You just keep

01:16:58.480 pointing that

01:16:59.560 we must return

01:17:01.120 to some solid

01:17:02.480 sanity,

01:17:03.280 some solid

01:17:03.820 rationality.

01:17:04.820 We must respect

01:17:05.780 the virtues

01:17:06.300 that got us

01:17:07.060 where we are.

01:17:08.460 We must be grateful

01:17:09.560 to the people

01:17:10.220 who went before us,

01:17:11.640 and we must

01:17:12.420 become serious

01:17:13.260 again.

01:17:13.640 I think

01:17:14.800 by our

01:17:16.180 standing of

01:17:17.360 living

01:17:17.680 and the fact

01:17:18.640 that we've

01:17:18.960 been secure

01:17:19.640 since the Second

01:17:21.100 World War

01:17:21.620 in the main sense,

01:17:22.940 and we have

01:17:23.700 not had the

01:17:24.240 privations of

01:17:25.060 our pioneer

01:17:25.660 fathers or mothers

01:17:26.680 has made us

01:17:27.860 careless

01:17:28.220 and has

01:17:29.360 allowed to

01:17:30.200 evaporate

01:17:30.980 the very

01:17:31.860 central

01:17:33.400 characteristics

01:17:34.680 of personal

01:17:35.620 character

01:17:36.180 that brought

01:17:36.940 us here.

01:17:38.020 Maybe hurt

01:17:39.380 will remind us

01:17:40.700 that we have

01:17:41.720 to relearn

01:17:42.560 the very

01:17:43.960 things that

01:17:44.900 gave us

01:17:45.280 what now

01:17:45.860 we seem

01:17:46.720 to be

01:17:46.980 abandoning.

01:17:48.640 Sorry to go on.

01:17:50.660 No,

01:17:51.360 I think

01:17:52.120 that's a good

01:17:52.920 place to close.

01:17:53.880 Last

01:18:07.520 effectively

01:18:08.240 will

01:18:10.760 you

01:18:11.580 will

01:18:13.600 투

01:18:14.660 together

01:18:15.480 with

01:18:16.920 Sophia

01:18:17.060 of

01:18:17.660 Will

01:18:17.980 the

01:18:18.060 Hmm

01:18:19.140 will

01:18:19.660 you

01:18:20.220 will

01:18:20.980 and

01:18:21.100 the

01:18:21.820 EM

01:18:21.940 will

01:18:21.980 and

01:18:22.160 Will

01:18:22.480 you

01:18:23.060 will

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 14, 2021

191. Justin Trudeau and the Election that Should Have Never Been ｜ Rex Murphy

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