The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 253. Canada's Biggest Problems ｜ Pierre Poilievre

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00:00:51.000 Welcome to episode 253 of the JBP podcast. I'm Michaela Peterson.

00:00:59.000 This is a unique episode because Dad had Pierre Poilièvre on, a lifelong conservative who has a very good shot at replacing the slowly sinking ship that is Trudeau's government.

00:01:11.000 Pierre has served as a member of parliament and as a trusted senior cabinet minister.

00:01:16.000 Dad spoke to him about the broad problems facing Canada today, of which there are many.

00:01:21.000 His election campaign, Canada's energy infrastructure, economic policy, and Pierre's mission to tackle the housing crisis,

00:01:28.000 lower the cost of living, defund Canadian media, and develop Canadian natural resources.

00:01:34.000 I hope you enjoy this special episode.

00:01:37.000 Hello, everyone. I'm very pleased today to have with me Mr. Pierre Poiliev.

00:02:01.000 He is the current front runner in the race for leadership of the Federal Conservative Party of Canada,

00:02:08.000 and he is therefore a likely candidate for Prime Minister of Canada within the foreseeable future, within the next few years.

00:02:16.000 The Conservatives in Canada have served historically alternatively to lead Canada,

00:02:22.000 competing with the Liberals primarily at the federal or national and provincial or state level.

00:02:29.000 Although the Liberals, their primary opponents, have been more historically successful.

00:02:34.000 They've served more terms.

00:02:36.000 Mr. Poiliev served as a senior cabinet minister in Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government

00:02:43.000 prior to the recent election of Justin Trudeau and the Liberals,

00:02:47.000 and has served as a member of parliament for seven terms.

00:02:51.000 And with that brief introduction, I'm going to turn the discussion over to Mr. Poiliev,

00:02:56.000 who can fill us in on a little biographical information so we know who he is,

00:03:01.000 and then we'll turn to more specific issues.

00:03:03.000 Thanks very much for agreeing to talk to me today, and welcome.

00:03:07.000 Thanks very much, Dr. Peterson. Great to be with you.

00:03:10.000 So we'll do Jordan and Pierre. How is that?

00:03:13.000 That's fine by me.

00:03:14.000 All right. Away we go.

00:03:15.000 So let's start. Who are you? Who are you? Where do you come from?

00:03:19.000 And how do you get interested in politics? And why are you the man for the job here?

00:03:23.000 Thank you. Well, like you, I'm from Alberta, although further south.

00:03:28.000 I come from Calgary. And my folks are from Saskatchewan.

00:03:33.000 They married in 77, moved to Calgary, where they adopted me.

00:03:38.000 I was born of a 16-year-old unwed mother whose mother had just died,

00:03:44.000 and so she was in no position to raise a child. 0.92

00:03:47.000 So she put me up for adoption, and I was blessed to be adopted by Marlene and Don Poiliev,

00:03:54.000 two teachers from Saskatchewan and a pretty normal upbringing.

00:03:58.000 I grew up in the 80s, and I was born in 79, so my early childhood was in the 80s.

00:04:04.000 It was kind of a brutal time to be a homeowner or a family because there was these monstrous interest rates.

00:04:11.000 So some of my earliest memories as a child were the financial stress that my folks were going through,

00:04:18.000 and a lot of people were losing their homes and their livelihoods at that time.

00:04:23.000 And I think that made an early impression on my thinking, even though at the time I didn't really understand what was happening or why,

00:04:32.000 I was able later on to look back at that strain and stress and then try to diagnose it when I was old enough to understand.

00:04:41.000 And that kind of formulated some of my political ideologies.

00:04:46.000 We can return to that later on.

00:04:48.000 But I grew up middle-class, a couple of teachers who got divorced when I was in my mid-teens

00:04:56.000 and sort of bounced back and forth between mom and dad's place throughout my teenage years.

00:05:02.000 Went to University of Calgary.

00:05:04.000 Yeah, so we do have a fair bit in common because one of my parents, my father, is a teacher.

00:05:09.000 Both my parents are from Saskatchewan.

00:05:11.000 They moved to Alberta.

00:05:12.000 Lots of people from Saskatchewan did.

00:05:14.000 I got interested in politics at an early age.

00:05:17.000 I remember that period of inflation because, well, my father and maybe your parents,

00:05:24.000 did they lose their pensions when the banks collapsed?

00:05:26.000 Because the teachers did.

00:05:28.000 Mine didn't lose their pensions.

00:05:30.000 We did have to move because I think in retrospect that was because of the interest rate hikes.

00:05:35.000 I'm guessing that my folks were not able to pay the mortgage at the higher rates.

00:05:40.000 And then we had moved to a smaller place and we had to sell our car and downgrade our automobile

00:05:49.000 and all of the above just to kind of keep our heads above water.

00:05:53.000 And that would have been, I'm guessing, around sort of 83, 84.

00:05:57.000 And that was a really kind of hellish time, particularly in Alberta, because the central government

00:06:02.000 had unleashed a wicked assault on the energy sector called the National Energy Program.

00:06:08.000 And simultaneously, the worst of the Trudeau socialist years were coming to bear on the entire national economy.

00:06:16.000 So you had 12 percent inflation and 12 percent unemployment.

00:06:20.000 24 percent mortgage rates.

00:06:22.000 That's real fun for everyone.

00:06:24.000 Yes.

00:06:25.000 And highest misery index in Canadian history.

00:06:28.000 That's unemployment plus inflation.

00:06:30.000 And that was under Justin's father.

00:06:32.000 Yes.

00:06:33.000 Surprise, surprise.

00:06:34.000 Yes.

00:06:35.000 Same policies leading to the same results. 1.00

00:06:38.000 Just as the dog returns to its vomit and the sow returns to its mire, the burn fool's bandaged 0.98

00:06:43.000 finger goes wobbling back to the fire, as Kipling would write. 0.51

00:06:47.000 But, you know, it was a miserable time for a lot of people.

00:06:51.000 Now, I was blessed because my folks were teachers, so they ultimately didn't lose their livelihoods.

00:06:56.000 And, you know, we were able to, we had a modest upbringing, but I would never have called myself poor.

00:07:02.000 And my folks worked hard to make sure we could play hockey and enjoy life and go on camping trips.

00:07:08.000 So I'm not, I would not cry poor, but it was a modest upbringing, one I'm very proud of,

00:07:15.000 and one I'd like to pass on to my kids as well.

00:07:18.000 How old were you when you got interested in politics?

00:07:21.000 And what were you like in high school?

00:07:24.000 Well, I was a scrappy kid who loved sports, and then I got a terrible tendinitis in my shoulder,

00:07:30.000 which made it impossible for me to do any amateur wrestling or football or any other sports that I enjoyed.

00:07:37.000 So I'd get home from school and be bored out of my skull.

00:07:40.000 My mom used to go and attend progressive conservative meetings. 0.99

00:07:44.000 And so I said, why don't you take me to one of these meetings, because I've got nothing to do.

00:07:48.000 And she took me and I fell in love with it.

00:07:50.000 And I just started reading books of all kinds about-

00:07:54.000 Oh God, you shouldn't do that.

00:07:56.000 I'm still recovering from all.

00:07:59.000 And-

00:08:00.000 So why in the world were you attracted to conservatism?

00:08:03.000 Because that's not a particularly, what would you say?

00:08:06.000 It's not necessarily an attractive proposition for the typical young person,

00:08:09.000 although, you know, maybe something could be done about that.

00:08:12.000 So, but what attracted you to conservative philosophy?

00:08:17.000 It was a bit of a winding road.

00:08:19.000 I started off by reading a lot of left-wing books and commentary and was very, very briefly persuaded by that.

00:08:27.000 But then I stumbled on a book called Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman.

00:08:32.000 And I, you know, I didn't agree with a hundred percent of what he wrote.

00:08:37.000 I still don't.

00:08:38.000 However, the fundamental logic of the free market system to me is inescapable.

00:08:44.000 Okay.

00:08:45.000 What is that logic as far as you're concerned?

00:08:47.000 Why is that?

00:08:49.000 Why is it inescapable?

00:08:51.000 Because in a free and open market, you can't get ahead unless you make someone else better off.

00:08:58.000 So I use the old apple orange ideology.

00:09:01.000 If you have an apple and want an orange and I have an orange and want an apple and we trade,

00:09:06.000 we're both better off, even though we still have an apple and orange between us.

00:09:10.000 It's like when you go to a coffee shop and you buy a coffee, you say, thank you to the lady who gave it to you.

00:09:19.000 And then she says, not you're welcome.

00:09:21.000 But she says, thank you back.

00:09:23.000 Now, why is that?

00:09:24.000 Well, the answer is because each of you has something, has gained something more valuable than you had before.

00:09:31.000 You have the cup of coffee that's worth more than the $250 you paid for it.

00:09:35.000 The coffee shop has the $250.

00:09:37.000 And why do you think the free part of that is important?

00:09:40.000 So that's the trade part.

00:09:41.000 Why is the free part important?

00:09:43.000 Because that's the only way to guarantee both sides believe they're better off, right?

00:09:48.000 Because in the form of taxation, government forcefully imposes a transaction.

00:09:55.000 It is considered to be a transaction, taxes, right?

00:09:58.000 You're paying for a whole plethora of services, but you didn't choose it.

00:10:02.000 So even if you've decided that the cost of your tax bill is not worth the benefit of the government services, you have to pay it anyway.

00:10:11.000 Whereas back to the coffee shop, if you don't believe the coffee is worth more than the money, you won't pay it.

00:10:17.000 And if they don't believe the money is worth more than the coffee, they won't sell it.

00:10:21.000 So the only way in a market system to make yourself better off is to make someone else simultaneously better off.

00:10:28.000 So why did you?

00:10:30.000 Now, look, lots of young people today either are not exposed to the ideas that you just put forward or they don't find them persuasive, say, in contrast to what appears on the surface to be the more compassionate left wing view that's characterized frequently.

00:10:45.000 And sometimes realistically, you know, by concern for the working class, like I worked for the NDP when I was a kid.

00:10:51.000 And at that time in Alberta, Grant Notley ran the NDP and he was an old union guy in some fundamental sense.

00:10:57.000 And so are most of the people he associated with, you know, and they they did have a real concern for the working class.

00:11:03.000 At least some of them did.

00:11:04.000 And I would say that was particularly true of the leadership, not so much the activists.

00:11:08.000 But, you know, you were pretty young when you came across Friedman.

00:11:11.000 I didn't have that experience when I was, say, the same age as you.

00:11:15.000 Why did you find that persuasive in contrast to the left wing ideas, the ideas of socialism, this rooted in this hypothetical compassion that seems so attractive to kids today?

00:11:26.000 Because I didn't see the compassion playing itself in any out in any real way.

00:11:32.000 It was it's a it's a catchphrase.

00:11:35.000 But what is what we're actually debating is not who's more compassionate and there's no evidence that people on the socialist left are especially generous with their own money.

00:11:45.000 Sure, they like to spend other people's money.

00:11:48.000 But what you see is really with socialism is an animal house playing itself out over and over again.

00:11:55.000 You know, when the animal farm, excuse me, animal farm playing itself over and over again.

00:12:00.000 That's a definite difference.

00:12:02.000 Yeah, definite difference.

00:12:03.000 Animal farm.

00:12:04.000 You know, the pigs didn't say they wanted to take the house so that they could be more comfortable and spoiled.

00:12:10.000 They said they were doing it to make everyone equal and to remove the oppression. 0.95

00:12:14.000 But then when the when they actually took the house, they basically they became the new masters and serve themselves.

00:12:21.000 And that's what you that's what actually happens in the socialism.

00:12:24.000 It doesn't eliminate hierarchy.

00:12:26.000 So why did you why did you buy that argument?

00:12:29.000 Was it as a consequence of encountering Orwell as well?

00:12:32.000 Or I think it's because I witnessed it again and again in as I was I studied what actually happens in socialist models.

00:12:43.000 It became very clear that the rhetoric about economic equality never actually came to pass.

00:12:51.000 It was used as a tool to mobilize the masses.

00:12:54.000 But ultimately, the outcome was to give concentrate power more in the hands of the political elite.

00:13:02.000 Look, government is really legalized force.

00:13:06.000 So if you believe in big government, you believe in expanding force.

00:13:10.000 Relationships of force always favor the powerful.

00:13:13.000 And so in reality, those who have more political power then benefit from a bigger government.

00:13:19.000 And those people are all rich, right?

00:13:22.000 They are disproportionately powerful in the system.

00:13:25.000 And so when this big beast called government gets bigger and more powerful, those who have the ability to steer that beast are the ones who are going to profit from it.

00:13:34.000 So what do you what do you think of the success of countries like the Scandinavian countries?

00:13:39.000 Let's say, well, in the relative success of Canada, because there's been a fair, solid socialist influence, more the English socialist type than the than the communist derived type fair socialist influence in Canada.

00:13:50.000 And it's formed some of our fundamental institutions, our health care system, our pension system, a fair bit of labor legislation.

00:13:56.000 I mean, when you look at and then, of course, the Scandinavian countries, small, though they are and homogenous, though they are.

00:14:02.000 They're quite radically successful in in in function.

00:14:06.000 So what do you make of that?

00:14:08.000 And how do you how do you balance that against your emphasis on while more conservative philosophy and and your your support of the freest markets possible in some sense?

00:14:18.000 All right.

00:14:19.000 So let's start with the Scandinavians.

00:14:22.000 I mean, there's some really uncomfortable facts about the Scandinavian countries that the left would not like to talk about.

00:14:28.000 Like Norway, 25 percent of Norway's economy is oil.

00:14:32.000 So that's really tough to grapple with if you're a modern socialist.

00:14:38.000 Moving to the other countries, Sweden welcomes all kinds of free enterprise and choice, including in the provision of public services.

00:14:47.000 And they have, in fact, in the in the 90s, the Swedes moved quite dramatically to reduce the cost of government and open up markets and free enterprise.

00:14:59.000 So it's not as simple as to say that that these countries are socialistic and therefore successful.

00:15:04.000 And I think it was even the one of the Danish leaders came to you to the United States and he was speaking at Harvard.

00:15:11.000 And he was saying, you know, he was all the socialist kids were expecting him to pump his fist in the air and and champion socialism.

00:15:19.000 He said, no, actually, we're not a socialist country.

00:15:22.000 And so, you know, there's no question that they definitely do have a strong social safety net.

00:15:29.000 I don't I don't object to that, but I wouldn't say that they are state commanded economies like like we're seeing Trudeau attempt to adopt here in Canada.

00:15:38.000 Right. So you see this as variation within the free market world, right?

00:15:42.000 I do.

00:15:43.000 There's a variation like there is between the Democrats and the Republicans in the U.S., but fundamentally, it's a free market.

00:15:49.000 Everything is a question of degree.

00:15:51.000 But, you know, there's a lot of academic literature that shows that government that countries with smaller governments as a share of GDP tend to have less poverty and better social and economic growth outcomes.

00:16:05.000 And that is true in both the developing world and the developed world.

00:16:09.000 So I do believe that you can provide a solid social safety net at the same time as having a powerful free market economy that generates the wealth to fund that safety net.

00:16:22.000 Okay. So you got interested in politics.

00:16:25.000 Were you a popular kid in high school, would you say?

00:16:28.000 Off and on.

00:16:29.000 There were times when I was interested in hanging out and being part of the club, but there were other times where I just didn't care.

00:16:35.000 Once I got involved in politics, I couldn't care less about the social life at high school anymore.

00:16:41.000 Hmm. How old were you? How old were you when that transition took place?

00:16:45.000 16, 17. Like I said, I kind of wasn't able to do any more sports.

00:16:51.000 And so I said, you know, I'm going to go do something else.

00:16:55.000 And once I took that part of my life took off the social life.

00:16:59.000 You didn't look back.

00:17:00.000 No, I had like a lot of my early teens.

00:17:02.000 I'd been I loved hanging out with my friends and playing sports and stuff.

00:17:06.000 But once once I found a new passion, I became more focused on that.

00:17:11.000 How did that influence your choice of education when you went off to university and that that was it?

00:17:16.000 Did you say University Calgary?

00:17:18.000 That's right. Yes.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, I wanted to do a generalist liberal arts kind of program.

00:17:25.000 And so I did international relations, which had some econ, a lot of history, some strategic studies, a little bit of poli sci.

00:17:33.000 And and it was a good over.

00:17:36.000 It was a good overview, a jack of all trades kind of bachelor of arts.

00:17:40.000 And it worked well.

00:17:42.000 And was that in in hypothetical service of your political ambitions at that point or had they catalyzed?

00:17:50.000 I don't know that my political ambitions were clearly defined at that point.

00:17:55.000 I just knew I was generally interested in politics and that international relations would give me an overview of almost all parts of the of that one confronts in a political environment.

00:18:08.000 Did you have a conception of a career path at that time?

00:18:12.000 Or I mean, lots of people don't, you know, they go to take a Bachelor of Arts.

00:18:16.000 They have an interest.

00:18:17.000 And I'm and I'm not saying that a career path, you know, specifying one is necessary.

00:18:20.000 I'm just curious as to what what how you envisioned your future when you were pursuing your degree and and then what happened afterwards?

00:18:28.000 I'm trying to remember exactly, but I don't think I knew exactly what paths I was going to take.

00:18:34.000 I just knew that I wanted.

00:18:36.000 To fight for certain things that I believed in.

00:18:39.000 And that that would that that would probably take me into the political theater.

00:18:44.000 Were you active in campus politics?

00:18:47.000 Yeah, I was involved with the campus.

00:18:49.000 It was then the campus Progressive Conservatives and Reform Party and involved in the debate club and stuff like that.

00:18:57.000 We used to have a place called Speaker's Corner.

00:18:59.000 It was like three floors of balconies where people could look down and someone would stand on a big stool in the middle and shout out a speech.

00:19:09.000 And they Speaker's Corner would meet every Friday and there'd be lots of heckling. 0.90

00:19:14.000 And it was a rowdy affair and but mostly mostly about hilarity and joking around and giving silly, ridiculous addresses. 0.82

00:19:22.000 And that was a that was the Friday tradition. 0.70

00:19:26.000 We'd go in and belt out these speeches to sometimes 70 or 80 students would come and take in these speeches.

00:19:33.000 And I imagine what if we had had the phone cameras back then, they'd probably be circulating wildly on the Internet right now.

00:19:41.000 No doubt. God, what a horrible fate to have everything you do when you're young, recorded and never forgotten.

00:19:46.000 So, yeah, well, you seem to have a sense of humor about such things, too.

00:19:50.000 And you're kind of viciously satirical in the House of Commons.

00:19:53.000 And so what what rule do you think having a sense of humor plays in what you do?

00:19:58.000 I think it's important. I try to remember it because.

00:20:03.000 Politics is a combat sport, but there has to be some joy in it as well.

00:20:11.000 And you have to make people feel good.

00:20:14.000 You know, the rabbi Hillel said people won't always remember what you do or what you say, but they'll always remember how you made them feel.

00:20:23.000 And so I think it's important to make people feel good when you're giving a political speech, make them, you know, there's a tendency to get up and and and spill doom and gloom all over the room.

00:20:34.000 But I think it's important to make people feel good about the moment and also good about the future.

00:20:40.000 And the most powerful way to do is is is humor.

00:20:43.000 Well, this is very interesting to me because you've got a lot of people coming out to your rallies and that I should let everyone know who's listening internationally.

00:20:52.000 That's not really a Canadian thing.

00:20:54.000 There have been times when that's occurred, but it's not run of the mill.

00:20:57.000 But you have a lot of people coming to your rallies and you've been attacked fairly viciously, I would say, by the press for the nature of the despicable people that you're attracting, you know, otherwise known as Canadians. 0.99

00:21:07.000 And so what is it that you're doing that's working to attract people?

00:21:12.000 And is it related to this sense of humor and and to an optimism that you're projecting, despite some of the dire things that might be characterizing the Canadian state?

00:21:22.000 I think it's I think people are desperate for hope in Canada right now.

00:21:29.000 These these rallies have been really emotional events like people come with incredible stories.

00:21:40.000 And I do this thing after every speech, I plant myself in front of my sign and I just let everyone come up one by one and talk to me.

00:21:49.000 And I don't think the political class in this country appreciates how much suffering there is in Canada right now.

00:21:58.000 Well, they did get honked on at a lot, you know, and that's pretty rough.

00:22:03.000 Yeah, I know, because they've had I mean, the political class has had a wonderful two years.

00:22:08.000 They have an unbelievable amount of power and a tremendous amount of comfort.

00:22:13.000 All of their homes have gone up by 50 percent in value and their stock portfolios up until recently have been inflated.

00:22:21.000 And so they're sort of looking down at the working class and saying, oh, what are you complaining about?

00:22:26.000 Isn't that you've never had it so good? Well, that's the exact opposite has been true for the working folks. 1.00

00:22:34.000 If you don't own a home, you're purchasing your like if you didn't have a home before 2019.

00:22:41.000 Likelihood is you'll never own one unless and until there's a major reduction in housing prices.

00:22:47.000 And so you've got this whole generation of people of young people who have concluded that they'll never be able to afford a home.

00:22:54.000 So they're 32 years old living in their mom's basement.

00:22:57.000 You can imagine the psychological impact that has on someone's personal security.

00:23:01.000 But how do you start a family?

00:23:03.000 So people come to my rallies and they're looking for an explanation about why things are the way they are and looking for some hope about how we might make them better.

00:23:14.000 The situation doesn't make sense to people because like I have one perfect example.

00:23:21.000 There's a guy living in the south end of my riding in South Ottawa, and he has the same job that his mother has.

00:23:30.000 And he ironically works at the same desk that she worked at when she was there.

00:23:36.000 Yet she was able to buy a house in South Ottawa 40 years ago that he could not even dream of affording today.

00:23:45.000 And so what he's saying, I was like, how does this make sense?

00:23:49.000 I thought we were supposed to be getting better off.

00:23:51.000 And now after 40 years, our family is far worse off.

00:23:55.000 And I'm stuck in my parents basement and I can't get married.

00:23:59.000 I can't start a family.

00:24:00.000 I don't even I don't know where my life is going.

00:24:03.000 And so they're they see me actually explaining why this is happening and then offering solutions.

00:24:10.000 And they say to me that I'm actually giving them a sense of hope.

00:24:14.000 That's the number one word I hear from people when they come up to me in the line.

00:24:17.000 They say we feel like we have hope again.

00:24:19.000 So that's what's bringing people out.

00:24:21.000 OK, so you're listening to people.

00:24:24.000 One of the things I've learned about good politicians, and I know people think that's an oxymoron,

00:24:29.000 but that's not an acceptable amount of cynicism in my estimation.

00:24:33.000 They and I think this was really true of Preston Manning, for example.

00:24:37.000 They're really good at listening.

00:24:39.000 And if they listen, then people tell them what their problems are.

00:24:42.000 And so you just focused on housing and housing crisis for young people.

00:24:47.000 When you're talking to people individual to individual,

00:24:50.000 what's tugging at your heartstrings and and making you understand the problems apart?

00:24:55.000 Housing is a big one, obviously.

00:24:57.000 What else do you hear and what's really concerning you?

00:25:01.000 People feel like they've lost control of their lives,

00:25:04.000 whether it's the the people who have made a decision not to get vaccinated for their own reasons

00:25:12.000 and have been had a had the government basically steal their livelihoods,

00:25:18.000 prevent them from getting on an airplane, ban them from ever leaving the country. 0.99

00:25:22.000 Or whether it's the single mom who's skipping meals or kids don't have to. 0.55

00:25:28.000 Or, you know, the guy who can't fill up his tank to go and drive and see his parents for one last time before they die in in Thunder Bay.

00:25:37.000 People feel like they can't make the normal decisions that a free person could could make in a free society.

00:25:46.000 And there's devastating personal consequences to it.

00:25:50.000 And then what they hear from the government is they speak out.

00:25:53.000 Right. They speak out.

00:25:54.000 They hold a protest.

00:25:55.000 They post something online instead of the prime minister saying, you know what?

00:25:59.000 I know you're suffering.

00:26:00.000 I'm sorry. We're going to work harder to make your life better.

00:26:03.000 We hear you.

00:26:05.000 I feel your pain. 0.99

00:26:06.000 What he says is you're a nasty, unacceptable fringe element.

00:26:11.000 And not only are we going to seize your bank account and bring in the emergencies act, 0.97

00:26:18.000 we're also going to double down on the same on the things that have made your life so miserable in the first place.

00:26:25.000 And so people people feel like they're under attack from a big bullying government that takes their money and tells them what to do.

00:26:34.000 And what they see in my campaign is is an opportunity to take back control of their lives,

00:26:39.000 to remove the gatekeeper so that we can build affordable housing to unleash the energy sector.

00:26:48.000 So our working class can get good jobs again to stop the money printing and bring inflation back down so folks can afford things again.

00:26:56.000 And that gives them hope that there's actually a better day coming.

00:27:00.000 And that's why we're attracting so many people.

00:27:02.000 Well, so why do you think it's so interesting listening to you?

00:27:06.000 Because, you know, your your your your narratives center around the individual individuals who make up the working class,

00:27:16.000 the working class under duress and isn't necessarily the way in that you might regard as most probable for a conservative.

00:27:25.000 You know, and so why is it so I think that's extremely interesting.

00:27:29.000 And in this upside down world of ours, why is it, though, do you think that people find you capable of delivering hope?

00:27:37.000 And I mean, there's other candidates on the conservative front.

00:27:40.000 We should talk about that soon. But what makes you credible on the hope front?

00:27:45.000 Do you think in terms of your what you're offering and who you are?

00:27:50.000 Because I speak clear.

00:27:53.000 You know, I'm I'm a believer in.

00:28:03.000 Using simple.

00:28:06.000 Anglo-Saxon words.

00:28:09.000 That strike right at the. 0.98

00:28:13.000 The meaning that I'm trying to convey.

00:28:16.000 And so I say things that people say, yeah, that actually makes sense.

00:28:21.000 So that folks say, well, why is it why is inflation running rampant?

00:28:25.000 And I explained to them in.

00:28:28.000 Direct language that when you print more money, you have more dollars chasing fewer goods.

00:28:33.000 At least it leads to higher prices.

00:28:36.000 Folks say, yeah, that actually makes sense.

00:28:38.000 Isn't that what we were taught in grade school?

00:28:40.000 And the explanations they get from everyone else are a bunch of convoluted, nonsensical, irrational excuses.

00:28:50.000 And so they like my direct blunt style, not because it's simplistic, but because it's simply true.

00:29:00.000 So what do you like about the political life?

00:29:03.000 It's a rough life and you take a lot of flack.

00:29:05.000 I mean, it obviously from your bio and I think from the way you comport yourself, it's obvious that you've you've got the constitution to some degree of a fighter.

00:29:15.000 You know, which is, I think, would say something I lack.

00:29:18.000 But what is it about your what is it about you that that attracts you to the political on the in terms of the interpersonal domain?

00:29:26.000 You talked about it intellectually in some sense, you know, these and you talk a little bit about your care for people one on one.

00:29:32.000 You like to listen, apparently.

00:29:33.000 And why do you care about ordinary people and why should people believe that you care?

00:29:39.000 Well, I think that I what what bothers me most about politics in Canada is that there's a comfortable establishment that sits on top and governs for itself at everyone else's expense.

00:29:55.000 And that the people who do the nation's work, the plumber, the electrician, the truck driver, the police officer have almost no share of voice.

00:30:07.000 I want to empower those people and disempower the political establishment.

00:30:15.000 And that's my mission. It's my purpose.

00:30:18.000 And I believe in it. I actually do believe in what I say.

00:30:22.000 I truly believe that the ideas and the political approach that I advance are right.

00:30:29.000 So having that purpose.

00:30:33.000 Allows me to persevere through all of the nastiness and the exhaustion of political life, because if you don't believe in it, then it just becomes an egotistical vanity project of which there are many in politics.

00:30:51.000 But it seems to me to be a pointless life.

00:30:55.000 All you're doing is trying to advance, trying to keep your name in the news and in high office as long as possible, just so that you can say you were there.

00:31:03.000 I think you have to have a fulfilling political career.

00:31:07.000 You actually have to have a purpose.

00:31:09.000 And I do.

00:31:10.000 My purpose is very simply.

00:31:11.000 I want to put people back in charge of their own lives.

00:31:14.000 I don't want the state to run people's lives anymore.

00:31:17.000 I want them to be masters of their own destiny.

00:31:20.000 OK, so so let's drill down into that a little bit.

00:31:23.000 So I would ask you two things.

00:31:25.000 One would be, you know, I'll put a little bit of a prodroma in front of it.

00:31:30.000 I watched the federal leadership debate in the last election, and I thought the conservatives lost before they opened their mouths because they accepted the diagnosis that was brought to the table.

00:31:41.000 There were five topics of conversation, if I remember correctly, and two of them were basically progressive talking points.

00:31:47.000 No one was truth and reconciliation.

00:31:49.000 Another was climate change.

00:31:50.000 There was 20 minutes devoted to the economy, you know, and I thought you guys made a big mistake because you let the you let the progressive types define the questions.

00:32:00.000 And so I would say because it may be the diagnosis in some sense is more important than the cure.

00:32:05.000 At least, you know that, you know, you've got your finger on the problem.

00:32:07.000 And so when you look at Canada at the moment, what are our problems?

00:32:13.000 Well, the central underlying illness is a monstrous growth in the power and cost of the state at the expense of the agency and freedom of the people.

00:32:26.000 That is the the override. Now, you can I can then give specific examples of how that.

00:32:31.000 So let's just take let's just take monetary policy.

00:32:35.000 So there's no way Justin Trudeau could get away with spending all the money he has in the last two years if he had to use real cash, because people would never accept the many thousands of dollars of tax increases that it would require.

00:32:50.000 So he has basically turned our central bank into an ATM machine for his spending.

00:32:57.000 They've created 400 billion dollars of new money in two years, which has given us a 30 year high in inflation and bumped up boosted real estate prices by 50 percent.

00:33:07.000 And how does that compare to previous expense expenditures by government?

00:33:11.000 Well, it's not even there. It's not off the charts.

00:33:14.000 If you look at the balance sheet of the Bank of Canada during the Harper area, even during the Great Global Recession, there was a minor bump in the assets it held, which is represented, which indicates that, you know, how much money it was injecting.

00:33:27.000 Whereas right now it's it's shot off the charts.

00:33:30.000 So the balance sheet of the central bank is up something like three hundred and fifty percent.

00:33:35.000 And all that cash has particularly ballooned asset prices.

00:33:40.000 That's the unspoken story here.

00:33:42.000 It's everyone thinks about consumer inflation, which is horrible as it is.

00:33:46.000 Then there's asset price inflation.

00:33:48.000 And what that's doing is creating kind of an aristocratic economy where people with where the bigger the asset you have before the inflation, the richer you've become after it.

00:33:58.000 And it is almost like the housing is attached to a balloon and it's being lifted higher and higher up.

00:34:05.000 And anybody who's not already in the house will never be able to grab it, get inside.

00:34:09.000 Right. And so we're but but it is all the result of this massive expansion of the money supply.

00:34:16.000 And so we're basically seeing a transfer of wealth from the the have nots to the have yachts, as I like to say.

00:34:24.000 And and and those in the the managerial class, the CEOs whose stocks have been artificially inflated and they've been able to give themselves a pay share buybacks with with exceptionally low interest rates.

00:34:39.000 They can borrow money and then buy back shares, which increases share value and gives them a bonus.

00:34:45.000 The the folks who own mansions and protected in neighborhoods that are protected by zoning laws against anyone else moving in.

00:34:53.000 These people have done exceptionally well over the last two years.

00:34:58.000 And yet the people who are doing the nation's work are now having their salaries destroyed by inflation.

00:35:04.000 You know, and then at the local level, you have municipalities bringing in our zoning laws that prevent new construction so that you have artifacts.

00:35:13.000 They're invisible gates. They're gated communities, but they're invisible gates.

00:35:17.000 The invisible gate is government bureaucracy that prevents construction.

00:35:20.000 So we have fewer houses per capita than any country in the G7, even though we have the most land to build on.

00:35:26.000 So what I'm proposing in both cases, stop printing money, start building houses.

00:35:32.000 I'm going to tell the big city mayors that if they don't remove their bureaucratic zoning rules and let builders build, then I'm going to cut back on some of their infrastructure funds,

00:35:42.000 because I think it's going to be need something that drastic to get these gatekeepers out of the way and actually build houses so that our youth have a place to call home.

00:35:52.000 And, you know, but it's across the economy. Ironically, all of these big government interventions seem to hurt the most disadvantaged.

00:35:59.000 Our immigrants come here as doctors and engineers, but they can't work in those fields because of occupational licensing protectionism, the gatekeepers.

00:36:08.000 So I want to incentivize provinces to speed up recognition of foreign credentials so an immigrant doctor can actually work as a doctor and remove the gatekeepers from our energy sector. 0.73

00:36:19.000 So we can build pipelines and and dig for resources and become energy self-sufficient and then remove the gatekeepers and speech.

00:36:28.000 And, you know, all of those, you know, the government is now pushing new censorship laws on the Internet.

00:36:34.000 And I'm I promise very clearly that I'm going to get rid of all of those laws and restore freedom of expression on the Internet.

00:36:42.000 So really what I see is the need to remove the governmental gatekeepers to restore freedom, let people take back control of their lives.

00:36:50.000 OK, so let's delve into economic policy a bit.

00:36:54.000 So the OECD recently predicted this is lovely that Canada's economy will be the worst performing advanced economy over 2020 to 2030 and then three decades after.

00:37:07.000 Now, we haven't been doing very well as a country, not only under the liberals, we weren't doing that great before under the conservatives as well.

00:37:16.000 You know, especially compared to the US and many other and many other countries that in some sense are peers.

00:37:22.000 And so that's a pretty damn gloomy forecast, right?

00:37:25.000 40 years out, we're going to be the worst performing advanced economy in the world.

00:37:30.000 And so what do you what what do you think the conservatives conceivably did wrong in the past to fail to stave that off?

00:37:39.000 And what do you think you can do differently?

00:37:41.000 And maybe we can make so you're interested in housing, you're interested in deregulation, especially on the housing front.

00:37:46.000 I want to focus in as we progress through this part on energy in particular, because that's a killer topic for everyone in the world at the moment, I would say.

00:37:55.000 So what did the conservatives do wrong? What has Canada done wrong?

00:37:59.000 What what have the liberals done wrong apart from, you know, printing money like madmen and and instituting these arbitrary rules?

00:38:07.000 And what do you think you can do differently?

00:38:09.000 Right. Well, I would respectfully disagree on the conservative economic track record.

00:38:15.000 If you look at the 07 financial, sorry, the 0809 financial crisis, we came through better than any of the other G7 countries, certainly way better than the Americans.

00:38:27.000 We didn't have a housing crash here. We didn't have a banking crisis.

00:38:30.000 We didn't have to bail out a single bank.

00:38:32.000 We had very modest inflation. I don't think it ever cracked 4%.

00:38:37.000 And I don't think it was above 3% for more than one or two quarters in the entire 10 year period.

00:38:43.000 Harper was around and unemployment stayed relatively low.

00:38:47.000 You could buy the average house when Harper left office in Canada was $434,000.

00:38:52.000 It's kind of hard to imagine that now.

00:38:55.000 But on a fast forward to energy, we need to repeal C-69.

00:39:01.000 That's the bill that makes it effectively impossible to build an energy project in Canada today because it has introduced a whole series of sociological questions that that into the process that make sense to nobody.

00:39:20.000 Trudeau has said that energy projects cause gender imbalances and therefore when someone applies to build one, they have to write a sociological report on what the pipeline or the mine will do for gender relations.

00:39:41.000 Well, with that, in addition to being sort of ridiculous pop culture sociology, it introduces massive uncertainty for investors because they don't really know how and why a project will be approved or rejected.

00:39:57.000 And they don't have seven years to sit around, so they'll take their money and invest it in other parts of the world.

00:40:04.000 And that's why the projects aren't happening here.

00:40:07.000 We don't mine lithium in Canada, even though we have lots of lithium in this electric car battery era.

00:40:13.000 You know, we're importing lithium from China because they actually get projects built.

00:40:21.000 However, they burn coal to refine their lithium.

00:40:24.000 So ironically, we're just inducing pollution in other countries when we buy electric cars that are made in whose lithium is refined in that country.

00:40:35.000 So if we could approve a lithium mine in Canada, we could actually mine the stuff, refine it, manufacture it here.

00:40:41.000 We have the third biggest supply of oil on planet Earth, but we're importing 130,000 barrels of overseas oil every day.

00:40:48.000 The solution to which is so obvious is that right next door to the St. John port where we bring in the oil,

00:40:57.000 we have St. John's Newfoundland is capable of adding another 400,000 barrels of Canadian production.

00:41:05.000 If we could just approve that production, then we could ban foreign oil, overseas oil from Canada altogether.

00:41:12.000 And that would mean that the dollars wouldn't be leaving our country for overseas dictatorships,

00:41:16.000 but would be staying here paying Canadian wages instead.

00:41:20.000 And natural gas, we got 1,300 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

00:41:25.000 And you know what you do, you know, you get natural gas onto a ship, you have to freeze it down to a liquid.

00:41:31.000 Well, what do we have in Canada? Cold weather, as you know.

00:41:36.000 And so it takes a hell of a lot less energy to liquefy natural gas in Canada, yet we haven't got a-

00:41:42.000 Jesus, finally an advantage for cold weather.

00:41:44.000 Finally an advantage.

00:41:46.000 And we have also geographic advantage.

00:41:49.000 We're the closest point in North America to Asia is BC.

00:41:52.000 The closest point in North America to Europe is Newfoundland.

00:41:55.000 So we have a shorter shipping distance, less energy needed to liquefy gas, and yet we haven't succeeded in building a single major liquefaction facility in Canada,

00:42:07.000 despite the fact that in 2015, there were about 18 proposed projects.

00:42:12.000 So you could approve those projects, we could be bringing hundreds of billions of dollars of opportunity to our people, particularly our First Nations people.

00:42:22.000 But it takes getting those regulatory gatekeepers out of the way to let it happen.

00:42:27.000 What makes you think you could take on the woke crowd in relationship to such things?

00:42:32.000 So we could say, well, what about the planet?

00:42:37.000 What about the climate crisis?

00:42:38.000 You're going to turn back to fossil fuels.

00:42:40.000 You're going to demolish the globe in the next 30 years.

00:42:43.000 We should be moving towards net zero.

00:42:45.000 You're going to doom the poor to catastrophe while you're pretending to elevate them economically.

00:42:49.000 It's like, and you're going to be like cut into ribbons by that crowd.

00:42:53.000 And so let's talk about climate change and the Paris Accords and all that.

00:42:58.000 We want to promote, you want to promote Canadian energy.

00:43:01.000 There's a foreign policy reason for doing that.

00:43:04.000 You made a case for liquefaction.

00:43:06.000 Like exactly what should Canada's position be in relationship to climate change and then the development of our energy infrastructure?

00:43:12.000 Well, our resources are not the problem.

00:43:16.000 They're the solution.

00:43:17.000 For example, if we export our natural gas, we can displace foreign coal burning electricity.

00:43:24.000 The energy hungry Asian markets are desperate for non coal sources of electricity, but they need things like natural gas to replace coal with.

00:43:36.000 And we have that gas.

00:43:38.000 We also have the biggest supply of civilian grade uranium in the world right in Saskatchewan that could be used to export to regenerate emissions free pollution free nuclear energy.

00:43:49.000 We have an overabundance of hydroelectricity in Manitoba and Quebec that we could be exporting to the northern United States to displace their coal fired electricity.

00:43:59.000 We have we could be using small modular nuclear reactors to decarbonize the electrical grid for the oil sands.

00:44:08.000 And and we have the ability to do that right here in Canada.

00:44:14.000 We have carbon the carbon capture and storage techniques in our home province of Alberta are second to none.

00:44:22.000 There are some, you know, white cap resources.

00:44:25.000 A midsize company there says that it's actually a now a carbon negative company.

00:44:30.000 In other words, they bury more carbon in the ground than they put into the air.

00:44:34.000 And so we have the technology and the resources to do it.

00:44:39.000 But what we're right now what we're doing is punishing our own resource sector to the advantage of heavily polluting foreign dictatorships with no environmental standards and who use the money to great mal. 0.59

00:44:53.000 And so we would be better off to displace their energy with ours and use that as a method of fighting for the environment while enhancing the well being of our working class at the same time.

00:45:05.000 Well, so if this optimistic view is true, which is a view that basically says, in some sense, we can have our cake and share it with others and eat it, too.

00:45:13.000 Right, because we can make progress on the economic front and on the climate front at the same time.

00:45:19.000 And I would like to point out that America's turn to natural gas has knocked their carbon dioxide output substantially down over the last 15 years, which is not a statistic you hear from the typical environmentalist types.

00:45:31.000 Okay, so if the world could turn to Canadian energy and as a consequence, the net impact on the carbon economy would be positive, meaning reducing carbon, carbon dioxide output, and we could get wealthier in doing so, then why in the world aren't the liberals already doing this?

00:45:49.020 If the pathway forward is so clear, and they're concerned about the environment in some genuine sense, and also, let's say, secondarily about economic matters, is there something wrong with your reasoning that they know that's made this impossible?

00:46:02.600 Or how do you understand the fact that this isn't already happening?

00:46:06.080 You know, it is hard to understand, I think that it goes in line, their environmental policies seem more designed to give the state more control of the economy, than they are designed to deliver an environmental outcome.

00:46:25.620 By attacking the energy sector, it gives them the ability to create more of a command and control economy, which is what they believe in.

00:46:34.060 And to redistribute wealth between industries, and towards political friends, in a very parasitical manner. 0.81

00:46:46.540 But, you know, we have a total nut, as our environment minister right now, Stéphane Guilbeault, he is bonkers.

00:46:56.120 And he's against nuclear.

00:46:59.800 It's not just oil and gas.

00:47:01.360 He would get rid of nuclear as well.

00:47:02.860 So, I don't know what would be left.

00:47:05.060 Like, you can't power...

00:47:05.620 Well, you know, all you have to do to get electricity is put a plug in the wall here.

00:47:10.300 That's right.

00:47:11.240 Out it comes, you know, plentiful.

00:47:13.240 I don't know why I'm overcomplicating it here.

00:47:15.080 I don't know either.

00:47:16.580 And, yeah, yeah.

00:47:18.420 So, it is quite a mystery to me, all of this.

00:47:21.360 The fact that, because I do believe, at least to some degree, that the reality that you put forward is actually valid.

00:47:28.540 That we could have our cake and eat it, too.

00:47:30.260 I certainly think the Americans have managed that as they've turned to fracking and have become a net exporter of fossil fuel. 0.97

00:47:38.300 I can't see that that's done the damn world one bit of harm. 0.88

00:47:41.040 And, well, in this situation with Russia is one of the things that shows just how foolish we are in depending on, well, countries other than, say, standard, reliable, forward-moving, stable democracies like Canada. 0.96

00:47:56.860 Canada, so it would be lovely if that could all occur.

00:48:00.340 So, okay, so let's turn away from economic policy just for a moment.

00:48:03.420 Why do you think the press in Canada is so, dislikes you to such a degree?

00:48:09.980 And are there exceptions to that rule?

00:48:13.480 Well, there are exceptions.

00:48:15.000 I find the independent media gives me a fair shake.

00:48:18.220 But, and there are some columnists, even in the mainstream publications, that are fair and reasonable.

00:48:27.560 But the political media in the parliamentary press gallery are part of the establishment.

00:48:34.480 And that finds me threatening because I'm upsetting the apple cart.

00:48:39.860 They are part of the ecosystem of big government.

00:48:44.800 When it comes to the CBC, they are big government.

00:48:47.660 Their entire budget comes from government.

00:48:52.440 And the corporate own...

00:48:55.040 We might want to tell our international listeners and viewers just how big a subsidy the CBC gets every year and what the CBC is.

00:49:03.920 And then we could talk about media subsidies in general and the collusion between the federal government and the Canadian media establishment.

00:49:11.380 So maybe we start with CBC.

00:49:13.120 It's $1.2 billion a year, is that right?

00:49:15.280 In that range, yeah.

00:49:16.000 It's $1.2 billion a year.

00:49:17.040 And produce a negligible audience?

00:49:18.780 A very, very small audience.

00:49:21.560 And produce almost no original content that you couldn't find somewhere else.

00:49:27.100 But what this does is creates a massive state-funded ecosystem. 0.50

00:49:31.840 And even the journalists who don't work for CBC, they get these contracts to comment on CBC.

00:49:40.060 So they go on these panels and they get paid, I'm told, $300, $400, $500 a pop to go and offer their opinion.

00:49:47.080 And this, so as a result, they all want to regurgitate the acceptable state-generated opinion.

00:49:55.000 And then they, so it basically creates a monolithic ideology and political narrative that comes from the center of the government and is designed to uphold the Trudeau government to keep them in power for as long as possible.

00:50:13.380 And so, yeah, I'm running against that.

00:50:15.780 And is that going to be hard?

00:50:16.960 Absolutely.

00:50:17.520 They're going to do everything they can to tear me apart.

00:50:20.340 I have no doubt about that.

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00:53:09.580 Would you defund the CBC?

00:53:12.080 Yes.

00:53:12.240 I mean, you've made that claim.

00:53:13.480 You absolutely would do that.

00:53:15.200 Yes.

00:53:15.440 Even though, okay, so let me push back against that for a bit, okay?

00:53:18.600 Because this is an important question to me, because I'm not very fond of the CBC,

00:53:22.780 especially as it's managed itself over the last decade, let's say.

00:53:27.320 I used to watch it a lot when I was a kid.

00:53:29.060 I used to listen to CBC radio a lot too, and I thought it was a reasonably credible and reliable purveyor of information.

00:53:35.760 I think those days are long gone.

00:53:37.740 In any case, many conservative politicians in Canada have made gestures in that direction.

00:53:45.020 And then the people who are going to come after you are going to say, well, you know, you're not a fan of Canadian culture, and because of the overwhelming influence of the United States and foreign media, we need to subsidize Canadian journalistic and entertainment activities, because otherwise we'll have nothing at all.

00:54:01.880 And generally what happens is the CBC continues to survive regardless of government.

00:54:08.660 So what makes you think you'd do it?

00:54:11.880 And how do you think you could survive?

00:54:14.000 And this is back to that question before, right?

00:54:16.000 How do you think you can push back against the woke types who are so good at savaging reputation and interfering with the kind of, well, policies that you're trying to put forward? 0.92

00:54:25.500 So on the CBC, there was a time when you could make an argument for a market failure.

00:54:33.540 You could say, look, here we are.

00:54:35.260 American culture is so massive and noisy. 1.00

00:54:39.660 Competing it with it is like trying to have an argument with a marching band, right?

00:54:43.600 It's just so loud, and it'll just drown out everything in Canada.

00:54:47.700 But that was only the case because the massive cost of production and distribution made it very hard for Canadian talent to even get on the airwaves without some assistance.

00:55:03.860 But now there are almost, like the cost of production and distribution of culture, information, and content is negligible.

00:55:14.760 I mean, any teenager with, you know, $700 or $800 can use his or her phone to start producing content, put it online if people want to see it.

00:55:28.500 Or any disgraced university professor.

00:55:31.360 That's right.

00:55:32.600 But no, I mean, like the reality is that, you know, if you had a, if you were a Canadian artist in 1980, you didn't have the capital to compete with Hollywood.

00:55:45.180 Now, you actually don't need a lot of capital.

00:55:48.060 And so with the free and open internet, anyone can break through as long as they have a willing audience.

00:55:55.180 So the reason that CBC's content requires subsidy is not because of some market failure.

00:56:02.220 It's because it's not appealing to Canadians.

00:56:05.380 No, that's just because Canadians aren't smart enough to appreciate it, you know. 1.00

00:56:09.360 Well, that's the narrative, right?

00:56:10.680 You know, that, and that's the irony about the Canadian media today.

00:56:14.580 They think their job is to hold the people accountable to the government rather than the government accountable to the people.

00:56:22.880 So what about other media subsidies?

00:56:25.420 What's your policy on that?

00:56:26.580 Because during COVID in particular, but over the last few years, you know, obviously print journalists have taken a beating from the internet because, well, for the same reasons you just outlined.

00:56:36.880 I mean, what do you think?

00:56:38.780 Is there a role for the subsidy of the press in Canada?

00:56:41.760 And if there is a role, what is it?

00:56:44.140 And if not, what would you do?

00:56:47.100 Well, I haven't, the Trudeau policies are definitely designed to basically make the entire media apparatus dependent on the goodwill and the goodwill of the state.

00:57:01.400 They have a government bureaucracy that determines what is considered to be a qualified journalistic company.

00:57:11.960 And they pick and choose based on their own political views who then qualifies and therefore gets the subsidy.

00:57:20.360 I think this is designed to, again, create more dependency on the government and curry more favor with the state.

00:57:28.900 I think I haven't made an announcement on exactly how I'm going to fix that problem yet, but I guess I would say stay tuned on that.

00:57:38.280 I want to depoliticize that and basically restore the freedom of the press in this country again by getting the state out of it.

00:57:49.560 So you're at least philosophically opposed to the idea of, let's call it government press collusion and might take.

00:57:57.580 See, part of the problem is, I think, that once you obtain power, let's say, the temptation to have the media under your thumb in some sense as a consequence of such subsidies, you can see how that would tempt people, right?

00:58:12.720 I think it's very useful to be cognizant of the sorts of temptations that do beset someone as they acquire a position of authority and power.

00:58:22.300 And this is why I wanted to push hard on the CBC issue, because it's a signal issue.

00:58:26.760 It would be quite a dramatic move to defund the CBC, because it has been a standard bearer in some sense of a whole vision of Canadian culture.

00:58:35.340 And so that would send a powerful message.

00:58:38.300 Look, if they do have such an incredibly loyal audience, then they can support themselves through their audience like other institutions do.

00:58:48.720 I mean, you know, there are countless other journalistic organizations that support themselves through subscriptions, sponsorship, advertising and other means.

00:58:59.200 And I think that's what we need to do with CBC.

00:59:03.100 If they genuinely have an audience, then they can go get support from their audience.

00:59:07.580 I don't I know there's lots of publications to which I subscribe.

00:59:10.620 I don't ask the taxpayer to pay for my subscriptions.

00:59:13.940 I pay for it out of my pocket and I watch either that or I suffer the advertising.

00:59:19.320 But I don't expect that other people are going to pay for me to consume the media that I like.

00:59:26.220 So why should I why should other Canadians be forced to pay for this far left liberal propaganda that makes up most of CBC's coverage?

00:59:37.440 All right. Well, I'd be it'll be interesting to see what all comes to that.

00:59:40.800 That should make even some more friends on the journalistic front.

00:59:44.240 So, but, you know, at the end of the day, they're not going to be fair anyway.

00:59:48.420 That's the thing. People say, well, you're going to you're picking a fight with CBC.

00:59:51.820 They're going to come after you in the next election.

00:59:53.620 Well, they went after Harper. They went after Scheer. They went after O'Toole.

00:59:57.980 We found is that by not proposing to defund them, they're just as vicious as they were what would otherwise be.

01:00:06.180 They campaigned full time to get Justin Trudeau elected prime minister, even though Harper had run a 10 year government without defunding them.

01:00:14.180 So, yeah, they're going to come at me guns blazing.

01:00:17.260 I know that. But they would do that even if I weren't taking the principled stand on defunding them.

01:00:22.700 Right. So. So, OK, so that's that's a good that's a good point.

01:00:25.620 You've got nothing to lose on that front in some sense.

01:00:27.980 So that's a problem with depriving people of theirs, of their support for you.

01:00:32.340 You know, you can't take anything away when there's nothing there to begin with.

01:00:35.720 So, OK, so let's if you don't mind, let's turn to Trudeau and to Singh.

01:00:42.200 These are your two. Well, the two people who will you'll be facing off against in some real sense.

01:00:48.120 And you do face off against quite regularly in the house.

01:00:50.940 What do you think of Mr. Trudeau?

01:00:57.180 So I think he's an egomaniac and I think everything he does is comes back to his egomania.

01:01:05.680 Even his political ideology, you really think about his his expansionistic role of the state.

01:01:12.780 Um, it never comes back to serving an individual objective other than to make him more powerful or his legacy.

01:01:27.020 More grand.

01:01:28.620 So let me give you a few examples.

01:01:29.960 So he.

01:01:32.260 He slashed the amount you can put into a tax free savings account.

01:01:36.880 But then he simultaneously increased the amount you were forced to pay into the state savings plan.

01:01:44.320 He.

01:01:46.840 Killed multiple pipelines.

01:01:48.420 Then he invested state money.

01:01:50.840 In a pipeline.

01:01:52.940 He attacked parents ability to take care of their own children by by removing tax fairness for families with a state home parent.

01:02:01.280 And then he brings in a government program to replace it.

01:02:04.680 Um, so what you're seeing there is you say, well, this sounds like these are utterly inconsistent positions.

01:02:10.320 And the answer.

01:02:10.900 No, they're not.

01:02:11.480 They're all very consistent.

01:02:12.760 In all cases, what he does is takes away the ability of business or individuals or families to do things for themselves.

01:02:19.260 And it requires they do things through him and through the state.

01:02:22.160 Um, and, and his ideology is always about creating a pretext in order to justify the state garnering more control over every aspect of your life.

01:02:37.680 Your, how you raise your kids, how your business functions, what you see and say on the intranet.

01:02:43.140 That he believes the state has to be everywhere always, but that's because as, as, uh, King Louis would say, let's say, well, the state is him.

01:02:53.480 Well, you know, that, that's okay.

01:02:55.020 So let's, I got a couple of things to throw at that.

01:02:58.180 The first is, you know, I think it's a very dangerous thing to attack the man rather than the ideas, but you're making, you know, as a rule of thumb.

01:03:04.600 Um, but you're making a case that in this case that can't be done because there is a personality trait that is uniting diverse policy decisions that isn't ideational or ideological, even it is in fact personal.

01:03:18.300 And so my sense of Trudeau initially, I was very upset with it, with his decision to run for prime minister, because I thought, well, you don't know anything.

01:03:27.700 And you're attractive and you can behave well in public and you, and you have a, a charming facade, but you don't know anything in any real sense.

01:03:38.420 And there's no, and there's no indication that you do.

01:03:41.240 You're not particularly well-educated and you're not particularly accomplished.

01:03:44.380 And this is actually a hard job, but worse than that, the only reason you even have the vaguest possibility of succeeding is because you have the same last name as your father.

01:03:54.520 And so, and then he ran and I thought, well, how do you justify that to yourself?

01:03:59.420 Because the gap of knowledge must've been painfully evident to him.

01:04:04.060 And the fact that the Trudeau name, you could, you could say, well, you know, the liberal party came to me, that's his justification. 0.95

01:04:09.760 They came to me and there wasn't another person that could win on the liberal side and better a Trudeau liberal, even if it's a consequence of family name than any damn conservative, let's say. 0.93

01:04:20.460 But I still saw it as a manifestation of a really profound narcissism. 0.79

01:04:26.180 I think a reasonable person would have said, I'm not prepared for this, certainly not yet.

01:04:31.880 And I'm not the man that need, that there needs to be in this position.

01:04:35.760 And so I don't know what you think about those musings, but that's how I looked at Trudeau.

01:04:40.800 And I certainly haven't seen anything in the preceding years that has disabused me of any of those notions.

01:04:47.300 I mean, I think there's some truth in that he is, his victory was definitely not a meritocratic one.

01:04:53.600 And he was probably the least vetted prime ministerial candidate in our history.

01:04:58.440 The media just glossed over so much of his life to go straight to, to, to help him and protect him.

01:05:05.740 It was almost like they built a protective cocoon around him.

01:05:11.960 And, and, you know, like he had, he had dressed up in grotesque, racist costumes.

01:05:19.800 So many times he says he, by his own claim, he can't remember them all.

01:05:24.820 I mean, the average politician had done that once it would have been exposed.

01:05:28.580 Then that person would have been expelled from politics altogether, you know, but, you know, he, he had run as a middle-class champion, even though, while he sheltered the millions he inherited from his grandfather in a tax preferred trust fund.

01:05:43.440 And all these things would have been front and center in the public sphere, had it been anyone other than a Trudeau.

01:05:51.800 And, but he was protected by, by the media who still protect him because he really is their camp candidate.

01:05:58.100 He, he, he, he represents the political class and the establishment in Canada, uh, those who profit off a big, um, bloated bureaucracy and regulatory state, um, in the, the old, uh, upper Canada era aristocracy, uh, know that he, he will always deliver for them.

01:06:18.700 And he has, he's delivered, he's delivered mightily for them.

01:06:21.480 That's why they're doing so well.

01:06:22.720 And that's why they'll fight tooth and nail to keep them there.

01:06:24.840 Why do you think he was, and still remains attractive to a substantial subset of Canadians?

01:06:31.840 I mean, people seem to regard him as charming and caring.

01:06:36.940 And I think he is charming in a, in a kind of shallow sense, but it isn't obvious to me at all that he's caring, but he, he, he seems to play the part and he plays it well enough so that while many people, and this is true of people all over the world, certainly by the,

01:06:53.640 by the, by the act.

01:06:55.560 So why do you think that is?

01:06:57.140 And, and how do you combat that?

01:07:00.600 Yeah, look, I, he is charming.

01:07:02.220 I won't deny that.

01:07:03.720 Um, and he's a good looking dude.

01:07:06.240 Uh, but I don't think he's actually that popular.

01:07:09.160 So people, people forget he got, he got 32% of the vote in the last election.

01:07:15.020 68% of those who cast ballots voted against him.

01:07:18.760 That's the lowest, he got the, he got the lowest share of vote of any prime minister in Canadian history.

01:07:25.140 And before him, the record was set by him in the previous election.

01:07:29.720 He got 33% of the vote.

01:07:31.580 Um, he never actually reached the height, uh, the vote share that Harper got in 2011.

01:07:36.920 Um, so we, we, sometimes we think he's an extremely popular guy because of the adulation he gets

01:07:43.000 from the mainstream media, but in fact, he's not that popular with ordinary Canadians.

01:07:47.300 What he succeeded at doing to his credit is engineering a very efficient distribution of

01:07:53.180 votes so that with 32% of the vote, I think he got something like 45 or 46% of the seats.

01:07:59.340 Um, and that is the nut we need to crack.

01:08:01.900 He wins a lot of seats with, with, with, with, with few votes.

01:08:05.320 We win few seats with lots of votes.

01:08:07.580 Um, in fact, the last two elections conservatives have beat him in the popular vote.

01:08:12.160 We just haven't got them in the right places.

01:08:13.840 So we need to, we need, that's the change we need to make.

01:08:16.600 And I believe we will make in the fourth coming election.

01:08:19.280 So you don't think that it is a preponderance of Canadians who have had the wool pulled over

01:08:24.520 their eyes.

01:08:25.040 It's no, he's not by, by any objective analysis of the data.

01:08:30.200 He's not an especially popular prime minister.

01:08:33.220 Um, and in fact, he's probably more on the side of an unpopular prime minister.

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01:09:55.840 What about Mr. Jagmeet Singh, who for our international watchers and listeners is the leader of the

01:10:02.240 Canadian Socialist Party and in some sense the NDP, New Democratic Party, and in some sense

01:10:07.380 the person who holds the balance of power right now in Canada's House of Commons, and therefore

01:10:12.540 the keys in some real sense to the federal government?

01:10:15.540 What do you think about Mr. Singh?

01:10:18.000 Well, he lacks a raison d'etre, right?

01:10:20.460 Why does he exist?

01:10:21.840 You've already got an NDP Prime Minister, a Socialist Prime Minister in Justin Trudeau.

01:10:26.580 So that means the Socialist Party has to try to figure out what to do with itself.

01:10:30.180 And so far, Jagmeet has said, well, he'll just support Trudeau in a coalition.

01:10:38.860 And the problem is when you go back to the electorate, people are going to say, well, you're

01:10:43.400 part of the same problem.

01:10:45.140 Like I had a gentleman in, I was in Chambly in Quebec, lifelong NDP supporter, very upset

01:10:53.400 with how life is.

01:10:54.220 The guy was telling me he's had to reduce his diet to one meal a day because food is so

01:10:58.900 expensive, and he was voting for the NDP until he signed the NDP formed a coalition with

01:11:04.020 Trudeau, the guy who's caused all the misery.

01:11:06.460 So it's going to be very hard for Jagmeet to go to the people and claim that he represents

01:11:09.820 anything other than the Trudeopian status quo.

01:11:12.680 And I think that in the next election, people will be looking for a drastic departure from

01:11:16.680 Trudeau.

01:11:17.560 So they'll be looking for the anti-Trudeau.

01:11:20.540 And so what do you think of him on the personal front?

01:11:22.960 I mean, one of the things that's really struck me about Singh, apart from his unconditional support

01:11:28.000 for Trudeau in exactly the manner you described, is that he seems almost stunningly and singularly

01:11:36.060 devoid of ideas.

01:11:37.560 I haven't seen anything come out of the NDP federally that isn't just woke nonsense, that

01:11:43.480 constitutes a genuine appeal, let's say, to the working class.

01:11:47.540 And I also thought that his, and we can talk about this too, his response to the trucker's

01:11:52.500 envoy was something remarkable to behold, because here you had the party, the putative party

01:11:58.000 of the oppressed working class, if anything, even more dismissive of that protest than the

01:12:05.200 liberals, which is really saying something, because Trudeau, as you pointed out, called

01:12:08.660 them misogynists and bigots and claimed completely falsely with the collusion of the CBC that

01:12:16.800 the vast preponderance of the money that funded that protest had come first from the bloody 0.99

01:12:21.540 Russians.

01:12:21.940 And then from the, like from the American Republicans who were apparently, you know,

01:12:27.080 trying to stage a coup in a country they don't even really, it isn't even really on their

01:12:31.280 radar for reasons that no one's been able to.

01:12:35.560 I was in the States, you know, for three months, I went to 50 cities in the last three months.

01:12:40.260 And I talked during the Q&A period about, people kept asking, what's going on with Canada?

01:12:46.140 And I said, well, you're not going to believe this, but our government and our media have

01:12:50.140 told Canadians that MAGA type Republicans basically tried to stage a coup to destabilize our democracy.

01:12:59.500 And they would ask, and this was Democrats and Republicans alike, they would ask,

01:13:04.540 well, why would we do that?

01:13:08.000 What possible motive, if we cared, which we don't, why in the world would we possibly want

01:13:14.120 to destabilize Canada's democracy?

01:13:17.320 And the answer to that is, well, I always felt, as a representative of Canada in that situation,

01:13:22.880 I always felt like I was in some sense out of my mind, because I couldn't believe that

01:13:26.960 I could present that complex of ideas as a reality, and that there wasn't just something

01:13:34.460 wrong with the way I was looking at the whole situation.

01:13:36.540 It's so utterly preposterous.

01:13:39.080 So, well, back to Mr. Singh, he didn't support the truckers at all.

01:13:45.460 No, and the NDP has abandoned the working class.

01:13:49.480 They've become another party of the elite institutional aristocracy.

01:13:55.920 They represent those with big salaries doing managerial work,

01:14:02.960 many of whom have been able to work from home with fully protected salaries and incomes for

01:14:10.300 the last two years, which is fine.

01:14:13.560 I mean, there's nothing wrong with having, I don't begrudge anyone for having had that

01:14:19.240 good fortune, but it's certainly, if you are such a person, then you shouldn't be judging

01:14:25.480 those who are protesting because they've lost everything over the last two years.

01:14:30.820 And you would think that the NDP would have actually stood for the downtrodden,

01:14:35.900 but that is not what they really believe.

01:14:38.560 And that goes back to what I was saying earlier, like you were saying, isn't it the left,

01:14:43.620 isn't it the socialist parties that really care about the downtrodden and the disadvantaged?

01:14:49.160 And the answer is, of course not.

01:14:50.820 That is the rhetoric.

01:14:52.260 What they really care about is a powerful state, and anyone who threatens the state is the enemy.

01:14:57.340 And that's what we saw with Jagmeet Singh.

01:14:58.980 And you saw a group of people who were independently raising their voices for their freedom.

01:15:02.920 And he said, we can't have that.

01:15:04.180 We're going to, I'm going to join with Trudeau and call them a bunch of horrible names.

01:15:08.460 And that's what he did, which is exactly the opposite of what you're supposed to do if you

01:15:12.600 really care about working class people.

01:15:14.920 Well, they seem, the people who purported to care for the working class, and this certainly 1.00

01:15:20.460 happened with the American Democrats under Clinton, seemed perfectly willing to sacrifice

01:15:26.060 the economic interests of the real working class, those people who exist right now, to

01:15:31.280 some hypothetical utopian future.

01:15:33.840 And every time push comes to shove, the real working class takes a walloping hit in the 1.00

01:15:38.620 name of this hypothetical future utopia.

01:15:41.280 You see that on the energy front.

01:15:42.760 We talked about policy there.

01:15:44.540 And that's certainly not only the case in Canada.

01:15:46.640 It's like Churchill, when he visited our home province of Alberta, and he saw the working

01:15:56.760 classes in the energy sector.

01:16:00.380 And his son, Randolph, said, these are not members of the cultural elite. 0.99

01:16:10.280 And he said, Churchill said to his son, yes, but the elite are but the glittering scum that 0.99

01:16:18.480 floats upon the river of production. 0.99

01:16:21.500 Yeah, well, I think maybe that was part of the backlash against the truckers, you know,

01:16:25.760 because these real people came out and said, we got a problem here with you guys.

01:16:30.040 You're pushing us down a little too hard, and maybe you could stop doing it.

01:16:33.940 You're fundamentally violating our civil liberties.

01:16:36.480 And we might point out that this is in a country that still does not allow its citizens to travel.

01:16:42.820 Yes, that's right.

01:16:43.640 And, you know, what I think the real backlash by the elites against the truckers was this

01:16:49.960 idea that truckers have no business going to Ottawa and raising their voices.

01:16:56.820 That's the idea that the elites were trying to push back against.

01:17:00.540 They think that the working classes should just shut up and pay up.

01:17:06.480 And let the experts just run things for us and provide, and the population should provide

01:17:17.880 total deference to these institutional elites to just run our lives for us and do what we're

01:17:24.900 told.

01:17:26.080 Now, you stood up for the truckers.

01:17:28.280 So now you've had some time.

01:17:29.720 It's been a couple of months.

01:17:30.860 You've had some time to consider your position.

01:17:32.960 And so can you tell me what you think happened with the trucker protest?

01:17:38.300 And then I'd like to segue into the imposition of the Emergencies Act, which, you know, is

01:17:44.680 grist for the mill, let's say, in terms of discussion.

01:17:47.500 So tell me your response to the truckers' protest and convoy and where you stood and where you

01:17:53.420 stand.

01:17:53.740 So I, as I said before, the truckers even arrived on Parliament Hill when media asked me about

01:18:01.440 it.

01:18:02.960 I support those peaceful, law-abiding truckers who came to Ottawa to peacefully protest for

01:18:13.680 their livelihoods and liberties.

01:18:14.960 And I simultaneously condemn any individuals who broke laws, behaved badly, or blockaded

01:18:23.420 critical infrastructure.

01:18:24.560 I think it's possible to hold individually accountable bad actors without painting every

01:18:32.660 single person with the same brush.

01:18:34.440 If you went to any protest that had 9,000 or 10,000 people, you will find bad actors.

01:18:41.240 But that doesn't mean that all 9,000 or 10,000 are themselves bad actors.

01:18:46.900 You know, for example, I was confronted by a journalist the other day who said, yes, but

01:18:51.220 what about those journalists who, sorry, what about those truckers that were angry at journalists

01:18:56.440 and behaved badly or conducted themselves poorly?

01:19:00.400 What do you say to them?

01:19:01.280 Well, I said, well, they should be individually held to account for their behavior.

01:19:04.800 But he said, well, don't you take some responsibility for supporting the cause?

01:19:08.640 And I said, well, let me ask you this.

01:19:10.580 Do you hold every single environmentalist personally responsible for the axe-wielding terrorists who

01:19:18.400 went to the coastal gas link pipeline construction site and started trying to kill pipeline workers?

01:19:25.680 Does every single person who's spoken out against pipelines take personal responsibility for

01:19:30.840 what those axe-wielding terrorists did?

01:19:33.400 Or are the axe-wielders themselves personally responsible?

01:19:37.300 I mean, even I would say, no, you can criticize a pipeline.

01:19:42.360 I disagree with you.

01:19:43.460 You can criticize a pipeline without taking personal responsibility for the violence of

01:19:47.640 some eco-terrorist you've never even met.

01:19:50.780 And so I walked around.

01:19:53.080 I saw the truckers on Parliament Hill.

01:19:54.800 By the way, most people weren't actually there.

01:19:57.280 The media depiction was total nonsense.

01:20:00.160 If you watched it on television, you would think that it was Armageddon.

01:20:05.000 Jordan, every single member of Parliament that condemned the truckers in the House of Commons

01:20:10.200 during the protest had to walk right through the Tucker Trucker Convo, right?

01:20:14.400 Because they were parked right up front.

01:20:16.100 There was no way to get in without walking through them.

01:20:18.140 And not one of them were prevented from walking through.

01:20:20.620 It was peaceful.

01:20:23.800 It was most of the time sort of a jubilant type celebration.

01:20:28.620 And people came and went.

01:20:31.120 They walked around on Parliament Hill.

01:20:33.320 Members of Parliament of all political stripes walked through the protest every day without

01:20:37.520 incident.

01:20:39.200 And yes, some businesses were inconvenienced and lost money.

01:20:45.400 They should be compensated.

01:20:46.560 But by and large, it was a peaceful protest by people who generally don't get involved

01:20:53.680 in political activism.

01:20:55.340 They're truckers.

01:20:56.320 They drive truck all day.

01:20:58.280 Yeah, they have things to do, man.

01:20:59.700 They have things.

01:21:00.280 And you know, the thing is, why didn't they all go home after the first week?

01:21:04.660 Jordan, they had nowhere to go because the government had taken away their jobs.

01:21:10.120 They weren't allowed to go back to their jobs.

01:21:12.460 You can imagine if Trudeau had just said, we're going to lift the mandate on the truckers, they

01:21:16.860 would have fired up their machines and hit the road to go back to work.

01:21:20.820 But he took away their jobs and their livelihoods.

01:21:23.580 No wonder they stayed there for so long.

01:21:25.580 And it was absolutely unscientific and malicious.

01:21:28.740 Look, if anyone is going to spread a virus, it sure as hell is not the guy who's sitting

01:21:34.380 alone by himself all day in a truck.

01:21:37.460 So this was never about medical science.

01:21:40.720 It was about political science.

01:21:42.360 It was about demonizing a small minority for political gain.

01:21:47.740 And I'm proud of the fact that people stood up and fought for their freedoms in that case.

01:21:54.260 Yeah, well, there is a contempt associated with that on the Liberal and the NDP side that

01:21:58.860 was really quite striking to see, like really quite mind-boggling to see.

01:22:02.520 And you know, the other thing that struck me about the truckers, because I talked to quite

01:22:06.620 a few of them also publicly when the protest was occurring and suggested nearer the time

01:22:12.320 when they did decide to leave, that they should probably leave because the crazies were going

01:22:16.860 to show up and cause trouble.

01:22:18.100 Because I think if you occupy anything, if you protest long enough, and the people who

01:22:22.800 want to cause trouble are going to gravitate.

01:22:24.640 And I think they left about exactly when they should, and that they reached a lot of their

01:22:29.060 goals.

01:22:29.360 I mean, first of all, they did blow up the Conservative Party, which I know they didn't

01:22:33.720 exactly intend to, but that wasn't nothing.

01:22:36.800 And also, and maybe you disagree with that interpretation, but also Canada really started

01:22:42.460 to move on the mandate front pretty much at the same time the truckers jumped up and down

01:22:47.260 about it.

01:22:47.780 And so I thought they did extremely well.

01:22:49.980 And I also think the world responded that way because that protest became a model for similar

01:22:55.760 and peaceful and useful protests all across the world.

01:22:59.700 So now, what do you think happened to the Conservatives in the aftermath of the truckers' 0.97

01:23:04.980 protest?

01:23:05.540 Am I being too harsh?

01:23:07.400 No, look, I don't know that there's a direct link between the two.

01:23:14.120 But I think by and large, it was a difficult political challenge or hot potato for any political

01:23:24.320 party to manage.

01:23:26.480 But I can't speak for how everyone else in the caucus managed it or commented on it.

01:23:32.320 But I'm happy with where I landed.

01:23:35.300 I pushed through the controversy and stood my ground.

01:23:40.400 And I'm happy to say that my position on that protest is exactly the same as it was before

01:23:48.340 it even arrived in Ottawa.

01:23:50.720 And I believe I can defend everything I did and said on it.

01:23:54.980 I'm going to ask you one last question.

01:23:57.220 I'd like to talk to you for about two more hours, but we can't do that.

01:24:00.240 And I don't want to push the patience of the viewers and listeners either.

01:24:04.540 Let's talk about the Emergencies Act.

01:24:07.940 So what do you have to say about that?

01:24:10.040 Well, I mean, it's ironic that Trudeau brought in the Emergencies Act after the border crossings

01:24:20.100 were cleared of protest, which is the only, you know, the blockades of the border were

01:24:25.440 wrong.

01:24:26.180 I said so at the time.

01:24:28.660 But that being said, they had been resolved by the time Trudeau actually brought in the

01:24:35.300 Emergencies Act.

01:24:36.100 And so what we effectively had at that point was about, you know, 10 or 11 blocks in downtown

01:24:42.700 Ottawa that were blocked by trucks.

01:24:46.420 You know, to put this into perspective, the Emergencies Act is sort of like a War Measures

01:24:50.960 Act, almost, almost kind of like martial law.

01:24:54.440 Yeah, a lot like it.

01:24:55.340 We haven't actually done that in Canada since this law was actually instituted.

01:25:02.140 His father used the War Measures Act to tackle some terrorist attacks by the, by a radical

01:25:11.120 Quebec separatist group.

01:25:12.260 But since that time, we've not done it.

01:25:14.280 Even 9-11, when 24 or 25 Canadians were killed in a terrorist attack in New York, or when a

01:25:23.360 terrorist shot dead a soldier at the war monument and then stormed Parliament, spraying bullets

01:25:28.840 around in all directions.

01:25:31.400 We didn't use it then.

01:25:32.900 And so we've never really used this law.

01:25:37.300 You would think that it would be used in a case where there was a foreign invasion, or

01:25:41.720 a monstrous terrorist attack, or something of that magnitude.

01:25:46.320 But we never did.

01:25:48.020 And then we, Trudeau did it for this protest.

01:25:50.300 I think he ultimately was just angry that he was personally facing a political protest and

01:25:57.740 didn't want to, to, to, to face the, the political consequences of a democratic protest.

01:26:04.260 He also wanted to be as malicious as possible to deter any similar protests.

01:26:10.540 So he, he actually seized bank accounts, which caused a lot of people to have fear that if they

01:26:16.620 ever donated to the wrong political cause, that the state might freeze their account

01:26:21.260 and shut them out of business.

01:26:23.020 So, um, I think there's a lot of, um, um, you know, fear is a powerful political tool.

01:26:28.660 And I think that's what he was trying to invoke with the use of this act.

01:26:33.260 So what do you think should be done about the fact that he did in fact invoke it?

01:26:37.240 Because this is a major league suspension of civil liberties.

01:26:40.440 This along with the fact that unvaccinated Canadians still can't leave the country or fly within 1.00

01:26:45.820 the country or take a train.

01:26:47.500 And I see no excuse whatsoever for the imposition of those restrictions.

01:26:51.300 As of now, it's maliciousness.

01:26:54.580 It's a vengefulness as far as I can tell.

01:26:56.780 So how, how is the government going to be held accountable when we have what's essentially

01:27:01.600 a coalition in place?

01:27:03.840 Well, it's, it's going to be hard.

01:27:05.340 I mean, I think it's going to have to be voters that will hold them into account when

01:27:07.800 we finally have an election.

01:27:08.900 Uh, but, um, they will, you know, they've appointed, uh, someone who was a former liberal,

01:27:13.560 liberal staffer to be the, uh, to, to oversee the inquiry into the use of the act.

01:27:19.240 Um, I think, uh, we need, I'm consulting with scholars, legal scholars on how we can curtail

01:27:26.280 the power and limit the use of the emergencies act in the future.

01:27:31.520 Um, I want to be very careful though, and how I do it.

01:27:35.740 Cause I, you know, this is an incredibly blunt instrument, but it, you know, in, uh, in,

01:27:40.900 uh, in times of war or foreign attack or something like that, you could understand why there might

01:27:47.160 be an occasion where these powers might be needed.

01:27:50.080 So we need, but I do think we need to craft changes to the act that will prevent it from

01:27:56.480 being abused for political purposes like this.

01:27:59.320 Again, so I said at the beginning, I would be mindful of your time in our private conversation

01:28:06.920 before we started, and we are unfortunately running out of time and there's at least twice

01:28:11.580 as many things as we got to that I would like to get to.

01:28:14.280 And so maybe we can do that in the future.

01:28:15.540 So I'd like to give you the opportunity at the end just to, well, is there anything we

01:28:20.300 didn't talk about today?

01:28:21.240 That's of signal importance that you would like to bring up today and, and, and, and close

01:28:26.180 with.

01:28:26.460 Yeah, I, I would just say, um, you know, I think that we're, we're divided right now

01:28:33.680 in Canada because, um, of a deliberate strategy of divide and conquer, um, governments that want

01:28:42.340 to enhance their control, they have to turn citizens against each other.

01:28:46.960 Um, they have to make you afraid of your neighbor, your coworker, your trucker, so that you'll turn

01:28:52.320 to the state for protection against your fellow citizenry.

01:28:56.880 And that's the oldest trick in the book, divide and conquer, um, control is by its definite by

01:29:03.540 its nature divisive because it's a zero sum game.

01:29:08.140 If one gets more control, another must have less freedom is not the, is the, quite the

01:29:15.800 contrary.

01:29:16.980 Um, if you, your neighbor gets more freedom, you don't get less freedom, but likelihood

01:29:21.820 is you'll have more as well.

01:29:23.360 So if you, if, if your friend has more freedom of speech, well, you'll have freedom of speech.

01:29:27.100 If you are, if the immigrant has the freedom to work as a doctor, then you'll have the freedom

01:29:32.580 to have a doctor.

01:29:33.420 If the local small businessman has the freedom to function without red tape, uh, then you'll

01:29:39.740 probably have the freedom to buy his products more affordably, or your teenager might get a

01:29:44.080 job with the freedom to have a job with them.

01:29:46.660 Um, you know, if the Muslim or Jew gets more religious freedom, then the Christian gets 0.85

01:29:51.200 more religious freedom.

01:29:52.360 And that's why freedom is a unifying, um, principle.

01:29:58.060 It brings people together because it allows each of them to be masters of their own destiny

01:30:03.000 without taking anything from each other.

01:30:05.520 We fight over control.

01:30:08.360 Whereas we fight for freedom.

01:30:10.880 That is the difference.

01:30:12.160 And, um, I, I believe we can bind up the nation's wounds by reinstating the ancient freedoms that

01:30:19.900 we inherited from our ancestors.

01:30:22.520 Uh, and so I really see my role as quite an, uh, an unimportant one.

01:30:27.440 I'm here simply restoring what can already belong to Canadians, um, by virtue of their 800 year 1.00

01:30:35.040 inheritance of English liberties going back to the Magna Carta.

01:30:39.300 Um, I'm just among the common people who are custodians of that freedom while we're alive.

01:30:45.980 You know, Edmund Burke said, it's a contract between the dead, the living, and the yet to

01:30:49.260 be born.

01:30:49.740 Um, and we're the, the living generation has the duty to pass on that inheritance.

01:30:56.900 And that's what I, I see myself doing is to, to re kindle that inheritance and pass it on

01:31:03.400 to my kids.

01:31:04.700 And so they can pass it on to their kids.

01:31:06.640 And, uh, I'll pass away into the, uh, fade away into the, the past one day, but hopefully

01:31:15.080 we'll have secured the freedom that we inherited for many more generations to come.

01:31:20.720 And that's, that's what I mean when I want to give people back control of their life in

01:31:24.000 the present.

01:31:24.360 It's also, um, to extend it into the future.

01:31:28.080 So that's my purpose.

01:31:30.480 That's why I'm running.

01:31:31.600 I, you know, people want to support me by Pierre4pm.ca, um, is that's Pierre4, the number

01:31:38.760 four, pm.ca is how you can sign up, become a member and do that.

01:31:42.700 And I would be honored to have people support in this enterprise.

01:31:46.780 Mr. Pierre Poliev, thank you very much for talking with me today.

01:31:51.960 Much appreciated.

01:31:53.020 I hope we get a chance to continue this conversation.

01:31:55.500 There's many more things that it would be a pleasure to jointly bring to the attention

01:32:01.780 of Canadians.

01:32:03.340 So, and I would also say thank you for your, I think your courage in allowing me to do this.

01:32:08.760 You know, I've asked other politicians, including some on the conservative side, and I've had

01:32:13.180 some agree, um, to speak with me, but generally they seem intimidated by the span of time that

01:32:21.060 stretches out in front of them, or perhaps, you know, not cognizant fully of the power

01:32:26.140 of YouTube dialogue.

01:32:27.340 But, um, you, well, thank you very much for participating and, and for talking to me.

01:32:34.940 Much appreciated.

01:32:35.940 Thank you, Dr. Peterson.

01:32:37.180 I really appreciate your prodigious work.

01:32:40.180 And, um, we, I've enjoyed your books and, um, look forward to continuing our conversation

01:32:45.800 into the future.

01:32:46.500 Thank you.

01:32:48.380 Thank you.

01:32:48.580 Thank you.

01:32:49.700 Thank you.

01:33:02.880 Thank you.

01:33:08.120 Thank you.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - May 16, 2022

253. Canada's Biggest Problems ｜ Pierre Poilievre

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