In this episode, Dr. Jordan Peterson delivers a lecture in Montreal with Jonathan Pajot as moderator. They discuss the problem of perception, the feeling of awe, the Bible, why going to church matters, and much more. Dr. Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety. We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling. With decades of experience helping patients, Jordan B. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way, and in his new series, he provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn t easy, it s absolutely possible to find your way forward. If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better. Go to Dailywire Plus now and start watching Dr. B.P. Peterson on Depression and Anxiety. Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve. I hope you enjoy this episode and that you find some solace in knowing that you're not alone, and that there's hope and a way to feel better! Thank you for listening, Mikayla and I appreciate your support. -Mikayla Peterson This episode is based on a lecture he did in Montreal, Canada. by Dr. JVP on the Symbolic World Podcast, hosted by Jonathan Paajot, on the topic of "The Problem of Perception: The Problem of Seeing Through The Bible, The Feeling of Awakened by the Bible and the Bible." This was a unique conversation I had with Dr. It's a conversation that I had a chance to sit down with him in Montreal and ask him a question and he answered it. I hope that you enjoy the questions he had a lot of questions that he answered. I would like to know what he had to say about the question: "Why do we do these strange things like that? - What does the Bible matter to us all? - I can't wait to hear back from you, do you have questions you have a question you want me to ask me about it? or would you like me to send me back to me? I'll get back to you, please let me know what you'd like to hear me back on the next episode of the podcast? If you have any questions or suggestions?
00:00:01.000Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.
00:00:06.000Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:12.000We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:19.000With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:27.000He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:00:35.000If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:00:41.000Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:00:47.000Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:00:51.000Welcome to episode 262 of the JVP podcast. I'm Mikayla Peterson.
00:01:00.000This episode is a lecture Dad did in Montreal with Jonathan Pajot as moderator.
00:02:42.000And he's saying things that I am not used to hearing on the CBC.
00:02:48.000The way that he was speaking, the references that he was making.
00:02:55.000He was going through Solzhenitsyn and Milton and Dostoevsky.
00:03:00.000He was talking about the nature of reality, using words like logos, which you usually don't hear on the radio.
00:03:08.000I was really surprised. I was very surprised because he was saying things that were connecting to something that I was already thinking.
00:03:18.000And this is an experience that I've heard many people say about Jordan's work, which is that when they hear him,
00:03:25.000he's expressing something that they had on the tip of their mind that they could almost see, that they could kind of perceive.
00:03:32.000And Jordan is able to bring it together for them in a more succinct and very powerful way.
00:03:39.000And I was so excited that I was hitting the steering wheel. I was like screaming in the car.
00:03:44.000I am not like that. This is not usually the way that I act.
00:03:48.000I was so excited that I went to get my son and all I could think about was what I'd heard on the radio.
00:03:53.000I couldn't believe it. I got home and I'm online on Google.
00:03:56.000Who is this Jordan Pearson fellow? I find him U of T. You know, he's a professor of psychology.
00:04:01.000I start listening to some of his lectures and every lecture I'm astounded at the way in which he's talking about the world.
00:04:09.000And especially for me, what was fascinating was that he was giving, he was helping the secular world understand what some of the religious patterns,
00:04:21.000some of the mythology, some of the rituals that we engage with, what it is that they could mean for them.
00:04:27.000Why do they make sense? Why do we do these strange things like have rituals?
00:04:32.000Why do we, you know, why do we have these strange stories that when you look at them on the surface are completely absurd?
00:04:40.000He was really helping people to gather that together.
00:04:43.000So I was so excited. I wrote him a little email and, you know, I said, thank you so much for everything you do.
00:04:49.000And I sent him a link to a talk that I had given, talk that I had given at a university, also at a college in Ontario, at King's University, I think.
00:04:58.000And I was talking about similar things as Jordan in that conference.
00:05:03.000I was talking about the problem of complexity and how, you know, how patterns come together and manifest certain realities.
00:05:10.000But, you know, I just said, I'll just thank him because, like I said, I've never done this before.
00:05:15.000So I write him, I'm like, thank you so much.
00:05:17.000And the next day I get an answer, nice little answer, you know, thank you so much for your message with a link to a few more videos.
00:05:25.000But then two hours later, he calls me.
00:17:04.000So, like, when you talk about the deepest things, and so those would be the things that move you the most or the things that are your ultimate aim.
00:17:12.000You're in the landscape that produces religious experiences when people are in that domain.
00:18:25.000And it's a primary religious experience.
00:18:27.000And so, and it's tied into perception in an extraordinarily deep level.
00:18:32.000Partly because the things that you're in awe of will be the things towards which you orient your perceptions and your actions at the highest level of organization.
00:18:41.000And so, that's actually what the awe experience in some sense is for, right?
00:18:46.000It's to show you what is at the top of the structure that directs your attention.
00:18:52.000And that happens with everything you do.
00:18:54.000So, in a way, it also becomes a way to understand two aspects of the religious, we could say.
00:19:00.000One which is the terrible aspect of it, this idea of this terrifying figure.
00:19:05.000And the other is the imitative part, right?
00:19:07.000So, you have this notion that the cat sees the dog or let's say a young boy sees this giant warrior that, you know, walks out in front of him.
00:19:16.000And he feels this sense of mixture of fear, of being impressed, and of wanting something from that.
00:19:23.000Or like wanting to move up towards that thing.
00:20:33.000And that's, in one part of that, that's a humility, like the cat might feel in relationship to a dog.
00:20:40.000But in another thing, it's a call to imitate even the cosmos.
00:20:43.000Because along with that sense of being awe-inspired by the heavens and feeling insignificant in some sense and humble,
00:20:52.000there's also a call to a greater form of being.
00:20:55.000And that's, you know, one of the things human beings did because we were preyed upon and became predators.
00:21:04.000One of the things we did was imitate the predator.
00:21:07.000You know, and so we were in awe of a predatory animal like we still might be if you meet a grizzly bear in the woods.
00:21:14.000You know, it's, you might freeze and you're certainly going to attend to it.
00:21:18.000But then there's part of you that is deeply called upon to imitate the capacity for aggression of the predator
00:21:27.000so that you can defend your loved ones against predatory action.
00:21:32.000And some of that would be to be the warrior that can fight off the grizzly bear.
00:21:36.000But then abstracted up into the religious sense, it would be to be the ethical actor who can protect your family from unscrupulous psychopaths.
00:21:49.000You know, forces of malevolence that border on the satanic.
00:21:55.000And so and that's all part of the ethical enterprise.
00:21:58.000And weirdly enough, all of your acts of perception are necessarily nested inside a structure that's pointing to what's what is at the highest or you're incoherent.
00:22:23.000And if you're with someone and your hierarchies of value aren't unified, then you are in conflict or you're aimless or you're hopeless or you're anxious or you're lost.
00:22:33.000That's the phenomenological consequence of lacking this united pyramidal, pyramidal ethic.
00:22:42.000So you can't get away from the necessity of this unless you want to live, you know, aimless, nihilistic, confused, hopeless, all of that.
00:22:52.000So we've got awe and we've got the desire to imitate.
00:22:56.000And I think the third part that that I'd like to bring up and hear what you want to you think about that is the notion of celebrating.
00:23:02.000That is something that's something that I don't know, it seems to be particularly human.
00:23:06.000Maybe there's examples of that in the animal world.
00:23:09.000But there's something about humans which celebrate.
00:23:12.000And in celebrating, what we're doing is we're recognizing these pinnacles, whether it be celebrating a great basketball player or celebrating the images of our nation or the, you know, the unity of our family when we come for Thanksgiving.
00:23:25.000There seems to be something that you really helped me understand the relationship, the technical relationship between the concept of worship and the concept of celebration.
00:23:35.000Because you might say, well, you know, what does it mean to worship?
00:23:38.000And a cynical person would say, it means to believe things that no one but a damn fool would believe, you know.
00:23:45.000And that's kind of the dismissive modern attitude, but that isn't what it means.
00:23:49.000Like, worship is, it has this celebratory aspect, and that is tied into this instinct to imitate.
00:23:56.000So if you have a sports hero, first of all, he's a hero, and he is someone you put on a pedestal, which indicates a kind of, right, an elevation towards the divine or towards the sky, metaphorically speaking.
00:24:08.000And then there is this compulsion to imitate, and that's no different than celebration.
00:24:13.000And so partly what's happening in a church ceremony, for example, is that an object of celebratory worship is specified.
00:24:22.000And in the Christian tradition, that's Christ, which is a very strange thing because, of course, he met an absolutely abysmal end.
00:24:29.000And that's an unbelievably complicated idea, too, that the tragic, the ultimately tragic element of human life is to be voluntarily apprehended in the deepest possible sense.
00:24:46.000And that what that produces, paradoxically, is a celebration, and then also a vision of the resurrection.
00:24:51.000And that's an idea that's so deep, you could lose yourself in that while we've lost ourselves in it for 2,000 years.
00:24:58.000Because one of the things that this attention problem brings about is the question of sacrifice, too.
00:25:03.000And you see it in religious ceremonies, but you realize that in order to exist in the world, you're constantly having to sacrifice.
00:25:10.000That is, you have to sacrifice the idiosyncrasies in order to be able to grasp the object, because this can be all kinds of things, right?
00:25:17.000It could be a dog's chew toy, it could be a million things, but in order to be able to grasp it, I have to sacrifice idiosyncrasies.
00:25:24.000And I also have to somehow, let's say, recognize it in its highest form, or kind of move it towards its highest form.
00:25:31.000And that seems to be an aspect of religious thinking which is actually part of attention, which is sacrifice.
00:25:38.000Well, the sacrificial aspect of attention, in part, is that whenever you see something as that thing, you sacrifice the possibility of all the other things it could be.
00:25:48.000And that's delimiting to a large degree.
00:25:51.000You know, it hems you in, but that's also a relief, because, you know, how many bloody million things do you want to attend to at one time?
00:25:58.000But so, part of the reason, you know, the idea of sacrifice, conscious idea of sacrifice emerges very easy, early on, for example, in the biblical writings.
00:26:09.000Because the second story in Genesis, I think it's Genesis 3, is that the Canaan, is that the Canaan Abel story, is Genesis 3 or 2?
00:26:17.000I think it would be after Genesis 3, Genesis 4, I guess.
00:26:19.000Okay, so it's very early on, and there's this insistence that, so human beings are already destined to work, as a consequence of the fall out of the Garden of Eden.
00:26:29.000But the Cain and Abel story is specifically about sacrifice, and about the degree to which a sacrifice has to be of the highest quality.
00:26:36.000So you have this one protagonist, Abel, who's a prototype for a mode of being that stretches throughout history.
00:26:44.000And Abel's sacrifices are to the highest, to that which is the highest imaginable.
00:30:10.000And so the sacrificial pattern enters into pretty much any type of excellence or excellent behavior we can.
00:30:16.000Yeah, well, and it also might, so it's integrally tied with the problem of perception itself and the fact that we have to sacrifice a multiplicity of potential interpretations or patterns of action to focus on one.
00:30:28.000But it's also integrally associated with the idea of the future, because to ensure that, you know, people are aware of the future in ways that animals aren't or animals are only partially aware.
00:30:41.000We're very aware of the future and aware of our mortal limitations in a manner that seems unique to human beings.
00:30:46.000And we sacrifice, we constantly sacrifice the present to the future.
00:30:51.000That's actually the definition of work.
00:30:53.000And that emerges very early on in the biblical narrative corpus.
00:30:58.000The idea that humans are destined to work, but that also work is the sacrifice of the present.
00:31:04.000And that's part of the fall, in some sense.
00:31:06.000It's the sacrifice of the present to the future.
00:31:08.000And we regard that as the hallmark of maturity, fundamentally, right?
00:33:30.000And that's another reason why we don't have general purpose robots yet.
00:33:34.000Is that they're just not embedded in that ethic that stretches all the way up from the most minute motor patterns of action and perception.
00:33:44.000To the highest possible ethical striving.
00:39:59.000And as you go up the mountain, that picture starts to become clearer and clearer.
00:40:03.000And when you reach the summit of the mountain, you have, you, you have the experience of seeing all reality in one breath, like in one moment.
00:40:12.000And that is really this kind of hierarchy of a perception, but it's also the hierarchy of the good.
00:40:17.000So we have the idea that ultimately that's the same thing for ethics, that there is something, there is a good up there.
00:40:23.000There's something which binds them all together.
00:40:25.000And that structure, it's, it's, this is a difficult leap, but that structure manifests itself with every active perception you make.
00:40:32.000So for example, you know, I can look at the scene I'm in in a lot of different ways.
00:40:36.000I can look at, most of you are in the dark, so I can't see very clearly, but I can, I can, you know, see a bunch of people, or I can see one person, or I can see the arm of one person, or I can look at the floor here, or, or I can focus on this.
00:40:49.000And, you know, by focusing on this, I center it.
00:40:59.000Because now you've determined that this is the most important thing that you can do at this moment, at, in this place, in relationship to the entire ethic that you inhabit.
00:41:10.000And you can't see this without doing that.
00:41:13.000And if you get it wrong, you pay for it.
00:43:46.000And, you know, to some degree, the Christian idea of the Logos, and the Greek idea as well, is the expression of the recognition of the precondition for the real itself.
00:43:58.000And that's really something to understand as well.
00:44:01.000You know, scientists, I talked to Richard Dawkins when I was at Oxford, you know, and one of the things that characterizes Dawkins is that Dawkins believes that the truth will set you free.
00:44:13.000That is not a scientific presupposition.
00:44:17.000But it also might be the religious presupposition without which science is not possible.
00:44:22.000Because all the scientists I know who are real scientists, they abide by the truth to an unbelievable degree.
00:44:28.000You know, if you're a social scientist, and you have a data set in front of you, you know, say, 200 columns of 500 rows, you know, a complex data set.
00:44:39.000Man, there are a lot of ways you can get that to talk to you statistically.
00:44:44.000And you make thousands of decisions when you're doing a statistical analysis.
00:44:48.000And every single one of those is an ethical decision.
00:44:51.000And one of the decisions is, well, do I prioritize my career, or do I prioritize my pursuit of the truth?
00:44:57.000And often those are antagonistic, because if you have a big data set, you want to discover something in it.
00:45:03.000And maybe there's nothing there, and then you've wasted two years, and, like, that's pretty hard on your career.
00:45:09.000And so that battle between career promotion and adherence to the truth goes on with every statistical decision.
00:45:17.000And so much of social science is just not true, because the incentive structures are set up badly.
00:45:23.000And so people will falsify their data with a million micro decisions and produce nonsensical patterns as a consequence.
00:46:02.000One of the things that you've been able to bring about as well is this idea that, of aiming, or the notion of sin as missing the mark, let's say.
00:46:11.000There's a great quote by St. Paul that says, right, everybody knows it, says, the wages of sin is death.
00:46:16.000But there's a manner in which that's even technically, it seems like something that we could defend.
00:46:21.000Like, that if you do not aim properly, right, so the wage of, the price of not aiming properly.
00:50:47.000And it's pretty much a postmodern neo-Marxist view of primate sociology.
00:50:53.000And that is that the biggest, ugliest, meanest male dominates by brute force.
00:51:00.000And so now he's at the top of the pyramid.
00:51:02.000And so the implicit claim there from the biologists is that power, those who express power most effectively, power being the ability to compel,
00:51:14.000those who express power most effectively will dominate the pyramid of dominance, of social hierarchy.
00:51:43.000He told me flat out that frequently, a small male can become alpha, especially if he has the support of an influential female.
00:51:51.000And the small male becomes alpha and has the support of the influential female, not because he expresses arbitrary power, but because he's unbelievably good at mutual reciprocation.
00:52:05.000And so he has friends, and he does things for his friends, and they do things for him, and they trust each other.
00:52:11.000And he has lots of friends, which also means he has no enemies, which turns out to be really important because the brute chimps, like the psychopath alphas, they do rule now and then.
00:52:22.000But they get torn to shreds by their enemies because, you know, they're tough, let's say, and mean, but they have an off day.
00:52:28.000And two chimps they stomped a week before ally together and tear them, literally tear them into shreds.
00:52:35.000And so the psychopath chimp types who use power to attain dominance have very short rules and end in a very bloody way.
00:52:46.000And so de Waal has pointed out, like Piaget did among children, that power is an unstable ethic upon which to base a social hierarchy, even for chimps.
00:52:58.000And chimps are male-dominated, they have a patriarchal society, and they're relatively brutal.
00:53:03.000And it doesn't even work for them. It certainly doesn't work for human beings.
00:53:07.000So whatever is at the apex of the pyramid, it's not, as the bloody Marxists insist, you know, the raw expression of power and exploitation.
00:53:17.000Wrong. Wrong. Not the case. Doesn't even work in nature. Doesn't work for rats. Doesn't work for chimpanzees.
00:53:24.000Certainly doesn't work for people. And then there is a kind of natural ethic that emerges out of that, right?
00:53:29.000Because with rats and with chimps and other social animals, it varies to some degree from species to species,
00:53:35.000there's the necessity for something like mutual reciprocity as the basis for successful social organization.
00:53:42.000And that's something like treat your neighbor like you would want to be treated.
00:53:48.000It's something like that. It's the behavioral equivalent of that.
00:53:51.000And you asked earlier, you know, from whence does the highest injunction emerge?
00:53:59.000Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's strange, right? Because some of it's bottom up.
00:54:02.000It's like, even among animals, mutual reciprocity seems to be a cardinal organizing feature, even done in the spirit of play, interestingly enough.
00:54:13.000Because play is a mammalian universal. And that's kind of bottom up. But then at the same time, and this, I suppose, pertains to the role of the mysterious role of consciousness in the world.
00:54:24.000It's like, well, we're also aware of this, right? And we also think about it abstractly as a good.
00:54:30.000And we don't only learn it bottom up, we also conceptualize it top down, and then they meet.
00:54:35.000And that's Moses coming down the mountain with the tablets. And so what did he meet on the mountain?
00:54:41.000Well, God? Well, he met whatever's at the highest place. And we all are stuck with the problem of determining what we are going to put in the highest place.
00:54:49.000And increasingly, I've been viewing the biblical corpus as an attempt to cast narrative light on the nature of the spirit that should be at the highest place.
00:54:59.000So I can give you an example of that. So in the earliest stages of Genesis, God is, so what should be in the highest place?
00:55:07.000Remember, that's ineffable and unutterable in some sense, and also incomprehensible.
00:55:11.000That's technically insisted upon by the religious types.
00:55:15.000But whatever it is, it's that which encounters chaotic potential, and then uses truthful language rooted in love to extract habitable order.
00:55:26.000That's what should be in the highest place, and then that's the spirit after which men and women are fashioned.
00:55:35.000And you might say, well, I don't believe that. It's like, well, I don't know what you mean when you say that.
00:55:39.000Because, like, do you believe that people have intrinsic worth?
00:55:43.000And you might say, no. It's like, well, is that how you treat the people around you?
00:55:48.000Because if you don't treat them like they have intrinsic worth, if they have any sense, they're gonna get the hell away from you real fast.
00:55:54.000Right? Because that's the one thing that everyone wants, is they want the relationship they have with another person to be predicated on mutual recognition of intrinsic worth.
00:56:06.000And that's very much tied in with the idea of the logos that inhabits us all.
00:56:12.000It's certainly tied in with the idea of self-evidence in the Declaration of Independence, the American Declaration of Independence.
00:56:19.000You know, we hold these truths as self-evident.
00:58:12.000And we, if you look at it historically, you can see that at the first moment when there, let's say the religious ideal starts to crack, you get some positive things like, you know, science and the enlightenment.
00:58:22.000But the Marquis de Sade is right there, waiting to manifest the spirit that Dostoevsky finds in Raskolnikov.
00:58:31.000In terms of Sam, one of the things that I haven't heard you talk about too much, but there's something about what you said with him that brings it up to me, is that he sees this hierarchy or this religious structure as a totalitarian impulse, as this kind of structure that comes down and manifests itself.
00:58:48.000One of the things that comes down from the mountain, let's say, in religious stories is also compassion.
00:58:55.000Without the hierarchy, there is, is it possible for there to be compassion?
00:59:00.000Because compassion is also the manner in which we accept that nothing ever reaches the ideal, that we can recognize it.
00:59:09.000But we also know that it's always kind of beyond us.
00:59:12.000And so there is a sense that it's judging us.
00:59:14.000There's also a sense in which it kind of yields because, you know, every glass is imperfect and everything, every, every house is imperfect.
00:59:23.000Every building, everything that we notice, all we can also see that it doesn't reach that ideal.
00:59:28.000I don't know if you ever thought about that a little bit.
00:59:30.000Well, let me think about that for a second.
00:59:33.000We've never talked about compassion before, so.
00:59:35.000Yeah, well, when I, when I think about compassion, I mean, first of all, I do not believe that compassion is an untrammeled moral virtue.
00:59:44.000And I think one of the terrible things about our society, one of the deadly Oedipal things about our society, is that we've put compassion in the highest place unthinkingly.
01:00:29.000One is that there's our arms race, an evolutionary arms race, between the circumference of the infant's head and the dimensions of the pelvic hole through which the baby has to pass to be born.
01:00:40.000And if the pelvis of women was any wider, they couldn't run.
01:00:44.000And if it was any narrower, then the child would die, like many children did, right?
01:00:50.000I mean, the human birth mortality rate was abysmal right up to about, well, certainly 100 years ago.
01:00:56.000And the baby's heads are compressible, right?
01:00:58.000The bones aren't fully formed when they're born.
01:01:00.000And often kids are born and their heads are cone-shaped because they've been subject to such pressure during birth.
01:01:07.000So it's a really, it's a, it's a narrow needle to thread.
01:01:11.000And there's been a lot of evolutionary tinkering to get that right.
01:01:30.000So, so, you know, our infants are born unbelievably helpless and they are basically prenatal until they can crawl.
01:01:41.000And that's seven, say seven or eight months.
01:01:43.000And so prior to that, because they're so utterly helpless, everything they do has to be regarded as above moral reproach and 100% right.
01:01:53.000And so if you have an infant who is crying, who's six months old or four months old, your job is not to judge the infant or to punish the infant or to discipline the infant.
01:02:13.000And that's great for people who are under six months.
01:02:16.000But it's deadly, it's increasingly deadly as the child matures, because that kind of all-encompassing, I will do everything for you, is also the enemy of development.
01:02:29.000And that's, that's the whole Freudian nightmare.
01:02:31.000I mean, that's what Freud put his finger on and he knew that that was the pathology of the age, the Oedipal mother.
01:02:36.000And it's like, yeah, well, welcome to the age of the Oedipal mother, everyone, because that's certainly what we see now.
01:02:42.000And so, if you put compassion in the highest place, well, then that's what you have, is you have a state of being where everything is an infant.
01:02:49.000And the only hallmark of ethic is pity.
01:02:53.000Now, Jung talked about classic conceptions of what is in the highest place, God.
01:02:58.000He said, well, God rules with two hands, mercy and justice.
01:03:43.000And I think the most dismal thing you can tell, 18 year old boys in particular, especially if they're miserable, is, well, you're just okay the way you are.
01:03:58.000No one gives a damn about malfunctioning 18 year old boys.
01:04:03.000Like, you know, but you, but you can say with the proper admixture of justice and mercy, it's like, yeah, well, you know, you're not so bad for 18.
01:04:16.000And, and you could be way more and good for you.
01:04:19.000And then you can encourage that and, and that's a, that's the spirit of justice.
01:04:25.000Fundamentally, it's the encouragement and the calling forth of further development.
01:04:29.000And so you could see it like in terms of a, we bring it back to something very ground, like very technical, which is walking down the street.
01:04:37.000And so I'm walking from this point to that point.
01:04:40.000And there is a perfect way which I could get there.
01:04:44.000But I, if I do that, I might spend all my time trying to figure what that out.
01:06:27.000And, and there's, and there's the real, which, you know, we're all wondering about now.
01:06:31.000This is one of the things that I think is quite comical.
01:06:33.000And I talked to Dawkins about this is, you know, the, the rationalists, the scientists, the atheists, and the postmodernists as well, really took the idea of the divine to pieces.
01:06:45.000And even in the dismissive way that you see with someone, say, like Harris, although, like I said, he has his meditation and his, he dwells in the realm of the sacred.
01:07:47.000And I really think it came out of, well, partly Greece, but certainly came out of ideas that are associated with the logos on the logic side and on the, and on the religious side.
01:07:56.000It's like, there's a transcendent world.
01:07:58.000It's material, but it's transcendent world.
01:30:34.000So, you would have to be at the 85th percentile as a man for interest in people to be as interested in people as the average 50th percentile woman.
01:30:46.000And you'd have to be at the 85th percentile among females interested in things to be as interested in things as the average male.
01:30:55.000And the reason why in the Scandinavian countries there's a preponderance of male engineers and a preponderance of female nurses,
01:31:02.000and that that differential has increased as the Scandinavian countries have become more egalitarian,
01:31:08.000is because that intrinsic interest is fundamentally biological.
01:31:14.000And so, if you make the society egalitarian, it maximizes rather than decreasing.
01:31:18.000And of course, social constructionist, post-modernist Marxist types just hate that,
01:31:25.000because it implies that there's some sort of limit, necessary limit on their social engineering.
01:31:30.000It implies that human beings have an intrinsic nature, that that nature is, that there's a female nature and a male nature,
01:31:38.000which is so weird, because this is another sign of our insanity.
01:31:41.000It's like, there's no difference between men and women, at all.
01:31:44.000And if there is, and there isn't, it's only cultural, unless you're a girl who's trapped in a boy's body,
01:31:52.000in which case the difference is all of a sudden so important that it has to be mediated biologically,
01:42:50.000It's like, because I've watched the Babylon Bee guys.
01:42:53.000And I watched their interview with you, which was like the weirdest interview I've ever seen in my life.
01:42:58.000These crazy frat boy Christian fundamentalists, which is weird enough in itself, interviewing you about sacred architecture and monstrous gargoyles in Renaissance architecture and the relationship between that and cognitive categorization.
01:43:14.000And then making like weird frat boy jokes the whole bloody time while you were keeping up with some producer laughing maniacally in the background.
01:46:56.000And I've talked to some very sophisticated economic players in the Canadian market.
01:47:00.000And they believe that our basic legal framework and our economic framework is 40 years out of date.
01:47:06.000And these are people who've played, let's say, on the international market and got burned badly by hyper-qualified American legal experts who just tore them into shreds when they tried to compete, you know, on broad scale in international markets.
01:47:26.000We don't have good policies for data ownership in Canada.
01:47:30.000We're way out of sync with the digital age.
01:47:32.000We have no idea what we should be owning and what we shouldn't be owning in terms of our personal information, our data.
01:47:40.000And it isn't obvious that Polyev has the sophistication to develop those policies.
01:48:13.000Because the faster they go, the better, man.
01:48:15.0001.2 billion dollars a year to generate zero audience and to lie and to lie to their funders so that he can continue to believe all the idiot things he believes.