The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 289. Why Are Young People Converting to Conservatism？｜ Eric Duhaime

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00:00:57.420 Oh, hello everyone. I'm pleased to be talking today with Mr. Eric Duhem, and he is the leader of the Conservative Party in the province of Quebec,

00:01:19.720 the French-language-dominant province in Canada, and he is the fourth or the fifth Conservative leader to speak with me on my platform over the last year or so,

00:01:37.040 a process that's actually been accelerating in recent months.

00:01:40.620 I've spoken with a number of the candidates who are vying for the leadership of the Conservative Party in Canada at the federal level.

00:01:49.060 The Conservatives, for those of you who aren't Canadian or who are Canadian but don't know,

00:01:55.100 the Conservatives and the Liberals at the federal level in Canada battle continually,

00:02:00.020 have battled continually throughout Canadian history for the leadership position,

00:02:04.800 and generally it's the Liberals who win, although the Conservatives perhaps occupy the throne, so to speak, about a third of the time.

00:02:13.460 And so the basic political landscape in Canada is centre-right versus centre-left,

00:02:20.380 and we have a Socialist Party, the New Democratic Party, that also shows reasonably well federally,

00:02:27.700 and they're farther left, generally speaking.

00:02:31.500 And for most of Canadian history, that's been the balance at the federal level.

00:02:36.160 There are additional parties playing a federal role, but they're relatively minor players now and historically.

00:02:43.840 Generally in Canada, over our entire history, which is since 1867 formally,

00:02:49.860 although the country in many ways goes back hundreds of years before that,

00:02:52.820 all the parties have been credible players and likely to do approximately what they claim they'll do in some fundamental sense,

00:03:05.620 which means they're no worse and maybe no better than generally respectable and responsible human enterprises.

00:03:13.640 And that's enabled Canadians to develop and maintain a fair bit of trust in their fundamental institutions.

00:03:19.980 And I would say that trust has been shaken quite profoundly in the last five or six years in a very large number of ways.

00:03:28.420 One of the consequences of that is that the relationship between the political class and the media class has shifted quite dramatically.

00:03:37.740 The legacy media everywhere in the world is dying a relatively painful death as network broadcasting becomes an untenable enterprise

00:03:47.340 and as the proliferation of online publishing platforms has led to the demise of the dominance of centralized print journalists

00:03:57.360 and all of that shaking out in all sorts of odd ways.

00:04:00.780 One of them is that the legacy media increasingly colludes with people in power,

00:04:08.440 but also, and logically following from that, no longer serves its role as proper critic of democratic leadership, let's say.

00:04:20.340 And so, the political class in Canada, particularly on the conservative side, seems to be waking up to this reality,

00:04:29.120 perhaps because they're treated worse by the legacy media than the other parties, more unfairly because of the left-leaning bias that characterizes the legacy media.

00:04:37.580 And so, one consequence of that apparently is that these leaders have been increasingly willing to talk on YouTube

00:04:47.420 and then more specifically to talk with me.

00:04:51.900 And recently, Mr. Douaim reached out to me.

00:04:56.360 He is the leader of the Conservative Party in Quebec and wanted to engage in a long-form discussion,

00:05:04.840 which I think is a very good thing, given that it's a form of political discussion that isn't filtered through arbitrary editing

00:05:16.520 or the necessary process of parsing out trenchant soundbites.

00:05:22.620 And so, it's actually possible to have a discussion that involves thought

00:05:25.840 that also isn't a competition between the journalists, which would be me in this case, and the politician.

00:05:32.200 So, I'm going to give you a bit of a bio of Mr. Douaim, and I'd like to thank him for being willing to speak with me

00:05:39.960 and for having the courage to submit himself to a long-form discussion in public, because that's not nothing to do that.

00:05:48.140 It's quite a daring form of self-exposure to do this without pre-preparation.

00:05:55.880 And none of the questions that I'm going to ask him were agreed upon beforehand.

00:06:00.440 There's no tricks here, except for the ones I can't help but play.

00:06:05.000 So, I'll give you a little bio about Mr. Douaim, and then I think probably what we'll do is

00:06:09.320 we'll try to situate the political landscape.

00:06:13.760 We'll try to describe the political landscape in Quebec and to situate that within the broader political landscape in Canada

00:06:20.460 so that people who are listening have a sense of what's going on there.

00:06:24.560 And we'll also attempt to describe why knowing such things, well, first of all, should be relevant to Canadians, obviously,

00:06:32.440 but might also be relevant to people around the world who increasingly, at their political level,

00:06:39.100 especially in the West, are grappling with very similar problems.

00:06:41.980 It's a very weird convergence around the world of the assemblage of problems and potential political solutions.

00:06:49.040 So, Mr. Douaim earned a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from the University of Montreal

00:06:56.120 and a Master's degree from École Nationale d'Administration Publique.

00:07:01.000 He writes for the Journal to Montreal.

00:07:03.780 He's had a long career as a journalist.

00:07:05.280 And the National Post, which is one of Canada's national newspapers,

00:07:08.520 and works on various non-legacy journalistic endeavors online and elsewhere.

00:07:13.300 He's one of the early adopters in Canada on the political horizon of the non-legacy media forms

00:07:19.220 like the podcast that we're engaging in at the moment.

00:07:22.780 He spent more than a decade as a political advisor in Ottawa, Canada's capital, and Quebec City,

00:07:29.620 which is Quebec's capital.

00:07:31.120 He advised Stockwell Day, a leader of one of Canada's conservative parties,

00:07:36.920 which have now amalgamated, by the way,

00:07:38.400 when he led the Canadian Alliance from 2001 to 2004,

00:07:42.400 for Mario Dumont, who was leader of the Action Démocratique du Québec from 2003 to 2008,

00:07:49.200 and later Gilles Duceppe of the Bloc Québécois,

00:07:52.880 which, paradoxically and strangely, is a separatist party for Quebec

00:07:57.240 that operates nationally in Canada,

00:07:59.640 because we have a very peculiar political system.

00:08:02.420 Douaim also co-founded the Réseau Liberté Québec,

00:08:05.400 a movement aimed at a revival of conservatism and libertarianism in Quebec,

00:08:12.120 because Mr. Douaim leans on the conservative side

00:08:16.800 towards the more individualistic libertarian end of the distribution.

00:08:24.200 In November 2020, Douaim ran to succeed Conservative Party of Quebec leader

00:08:30.300 Adrian D. Puglio, winning with 95% of the vote.

00:08:36.180 And so, I thought we'd start our discussion first by welcoming you, Mr. Douaim,

00:08:40.360 and then letting you expound for a bit on,

00:08:44.400 maybe you can explain Quebec to our listeners.

00:08:51.400 Let's talk about the province a bit,

00:08:53.120 and about its interesting situation in the Canadian political landscape,

00:08:57.860 and then we'll talk about the current Quebec political landscape

00:09:02.080 and what you're endeavouring to achieve.

00:09:04.540 Thank you very much for welcoming me.

00:09:07.760 Well, you want me to talk about Quebec?

00:09:09.580 For those who are not aware, of course,

00:09:11.400 we're the French province in Canada,

00:09:14.860 you know, 25%, 23% of Canadians.

00:09:21.280 We, you know, we've, politically speaking,

00:09:25.420 over the last 50 years,

00:09:27.040 Quebec has been a battleground between the separatists and the federalists.

00:09:31.600 So, there's those who wanted Quebec to separate from Canada

00:09:34.700 and those who wanted Quebec to stay within Canada.

00:09:37.580 For many decades, you know, since I was born,

00:09:40.840 we've always been fighting between those two political sides.

00:09:45.760 And now the political landscape is changing in Quebec slowly but surely.

00:09:50.300 There were two defeats for the yes side,

00:09:52.940 so for the separatist side in 1980 and in 1995.

00:09:57.160 And that's where probably many people all around the world

00:09:59.540 heard the most about Quebec

00:10:00.820 because it was a very, very tight result,

00:10:05.020 especially in 95,

00:10:06.120 whether it was like not even 51% against 49.4%.

00:10:10.120 So, that's been a, you know, a huge political thing going on.

00:10:15.940 But nowadays, there's not as much appetite,

00:10:18.840 especially not among the youngest generation,

00:10:21.640 to talk about those divisive issues or elsewhere.

00:10:24.940 And we see that the two old parties

00:10:27.100 that used to split us between federalists and separatists,

00:10:31.820 the yes camp and the no camp, are melting down.

00:10:34.460 And now we have five political parties.

00:10:37.000 You know, it's very, very unusual for the kind of system that we're in.

00:10:41.660 And so there's five main political parties

00:10:43.780 in this upcoming election at the provincial level.

00:10:46.320 There's one socialist party, Quebec Solidaire.

00:10:49.680 There's the governing party, the Coalition Avenir Québec,

00:10:52.440 which is a nationalist centrist party.

00:10:54.940 There's the liberals who are the former federalist side,

00:10:58.880 who are still federalists,

00:10:59.900 but more leaning on the left as well.

00:11:02.860 And the separatist party historically,

00:11:05.520 the Parti Québécois,

00:11:07.040 who's also more on the left of the political spectrum.

00:11:10.100 So, it's going to,

00:11:11.300 it's a very, very interesting period of time in our history,

00:11:15.260 politically speaking.

00:11:16.220 And this election could be a very historical election

00:11:18.680 that is going to mark the end of a cycle

00:11:21.780 and hopefully the beginning of a new one.

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00:13:01.000 Canada's been a somewhat difficult country

00:13:08.000 to cobble together

00:13:08.900 because of the linguistic divide,

00:13:10.700 because of the massive scale

00:13:12.320 of the geographic enterprise

00:13:14.960 and because of the distinction

00:13:17.640 and differences

00:13:19.120 between the French civil law system

00:13:22.520 and the English common law system.

00:13:24.320 And so it's been a real tricky balancing act

00:13:26.740 for Canadians to keep the country unified

00:13:29.740 from coast to coast

00:13:30.880 with Quebec sitting

00:13:32.180 not precisely in the middle

00:13:33.760 but approximately in the middle.

00:13:35.800 And so, as Mr. Duame said,

00:13:39.060 that just about came to destruction

00:13:40.900 twice in the last 45 years.

00:13:45.040 We escaped with our country intact

00:13:47.220 by the narrowest of margins.

00:13:49.540 It might be of some interest

00:13:51.080 for people listening to know

00:13:52.460 that in many ways,

00:13:53.980 and please correct me

00:13:54.860 if you believe my interpretation

00:13:56.360 to be incomplete,

00:13:57.740 Quebec was one of the last countries 0.56

00:13:59.520 so to speak,

00:14:01.340 nations in the Western world

00:14:03.260 that underwent the transition

00:14:05.480 from traditional Catholicism

00:14:09.380 to modernity.

00:14:12.960 The awakening in Quebec,

00:14:15.960 let's say,

00:14:17.240 occurred in the late 1950s.

00:14:19.380 Before that,

00:14:20.140 Quebec was an extremely

00:14:21.580 traditional Catholic enclave

00:14:24.180 with extremely large families.

00:14:26.400 I did genetic research

00:14:27.640 in Quebec for quite a long time

00:14:29.540 and it was very common

00:14:31.020 for the older people

00:14:32.660 in our research samples

00:14:34.380 to have had 10 siblings,

00:14:37.000 very large families.

00:14:38.920 And then,

00:14:40.200 and so Quebec was united

00:14:43.000 on the French side

00:14:44.200 and very tightly kin-related

00:14:46.860 because Quebec was also settled

00:14:48.280 by a relatively small number

00:14:50.000 of French settlers.

00:14:51.180 And so Quebec was also

00:14:52.780 tightly kin-related society.

00:14:54.440 And the French

00:14:55.560 were under the rubric

00:14:58.620 of this intense Catholicism.

00:15:00.920 The English in Quebec

00:15:02.200 had more financial power,

00:15:04.960 generally speaking,

00:15:05.800 although they were

00:15:06.260 a very small minority

00:15:07.740 of people

00:15:08.740 compared to the French.

00:15:10.460 In the 60s,

00:15:12.600 Catholicism dissolved precipitously.

00:15:15.680 Church attendance plummeted.

00:15:17.500 Family size crashed

00:15:19.220 to the point where

00:15:20.120 in many recent decades,

00:15:22.280 Quebec has had one

00:15:23.300 of the lowest birth rates

00:15:24.400 in the Western world.

00:15:25.920 The marriage rate collapsed 0.70

00:15:27.320 and along with that collapse,

00:15:29.260 interestingly enough,

00:15:30.840 there was a real rise

00:15:31.980 in nationalism.

00:15:33.100 And to me,

00:15:33.940 it's always been the case

00:15:36.020 that that was sort of

00:15:38.080 a microcosm

00:15:38.960 in many ways

00:15:39.960 of what also happened

00:15:40.820 in Europe

00:15:41.280 as classical Christianity

00:15:42.800 deteriorated.

00:15:44.220 Other systems

00:15:45.700 of group-fostered belief

00:15:47.760 flourished.

00:15:48.720 And part of what drove

00:15:50.320 Quebec separatism

00:15:51.340 was in some real sense

00:15:52.580 a substitute

00:15:53.640 for the religious impulse

00:15:55.880 that had united

00:15:56.620 Quebecois before.

00:15:58.060 I talked to a Gallup pollster

00:16:00.260 probably 20 years ago.

00:16:03.240 He answered a question

00:16:04.040 I always had

00:16:05.400 been curious about.

00:16:07.580 He said that their research

00:16:08.740 had indicated

00:16:09.320 that if you were

00:16:09.900 a lapsed Catholic

00:16:10.940 in Quebec

00:16:12.220 compared to

00:16:13.340 a continual churchgoer,

00:16:15.400 let's say,

00:16:15.900 and someone who maintained

00:16:16.740 their faith,

00:16:17.440 you were five times

00:16:18.600 more likely

00:16:19.240 to be an advocate

00:16:20.060 for separatism.

00:16:21.680 And now,

00:16:22.120 Mr. Duhame has pointed out

00:16:23.360 that in recent years,

00:16:25.320 and that would be

00:16:25.800 post-1995

00:16:26.900 when we had the last

00:16:27.980 referendum

00:16:28.560 on Quebec separatism,

00:16:30.700 the Quebec separatist

00:16:31.820 cause has

00:16:32.640 attracted less and less

00:16:35.420 fervor,

00:16:37.460 especially among

00:16:38.300 the young.

00:16:39.220 And you mentioned to me

00:16:40.300 in a bit of a brief

00:16:41.440 conversation that we had

00:16:42.540 before this podcast

00:16:43.500 started that

00:16:44.220 you're actually,

00:16:45.900 the Conservatives

00:16:46.800 have actually started

00:16:47.640 to become

00:16:48.180 more popular.

00:16:51.240 They're showing

00:16:52.160 their greatest growth

00:16:53.200 in popularity

00:16:53.840 among people

00:16:54.400 who are relatively

00:16:55.040 young in Quebec,

00:16:56.120 which is really

00:16:56.780 not what you'd expect.

00:16:58.020 So maybe you could

00:16:58.980 explain a little bit

00:16:59.720 about how you see

00:17:00.860 the relative demographics

00:17:02.440 and positions

00:17:03.120 of the various

00:17:03.780 political parties

00:17:04.520 in Quebec.

00:17:05.500 Well, first off,

00:17:06.520 I want to talk to you

00:17:07.260 about the,

00:17:07.940 as you rightly pointed out,

00:17:09.780 what we call it here

00:17:11.320 was the quiet revolution

00:17:12.560 in the late 50s,

00:17:14.000 early 60s,

00:17:14.740 when that shift happened,

00:17:16.000 when the Catholic Church

00:17:17.100 lost control

00:17:18.180 at a certain extent

00:17:19.220 of what was going

00:17:20.300 on in Quebec

00:17:20.880 and where the nanny state 1.00

00:17:23.380 became, you know,

00:17:24.720 growing and growing.

00:17:25.780 That's been happening

00:17:27.380 for the last 50 years.

00:17:30.200 So there was

00:17:31.580 a complete shift

00:17:32.520 and Quebec didn't

00:17:33.540 do anything different

00:17:34.420 from other societies

00:17:35.400 except that it was done

00:17:37.020 much faster.

00:17:38.260 Like it was a fast track

00:17:39.800 of everything

00:17:40.380 that we observed

00:17:41.140 in the Western world.

00:17:42.100 We did it in a very

00:17:43.200 short period of time.

00:17:44.500 Why so?

00:17:45.060 Probably because

00:17:45.680 we're a more

00:17:46.240 homogenous people

00:17:48.360 and so that's probably

00:17:50.120 why the shift

00:17:50.820 happened so quickly.

00:17:52.920 And that being said,

00:17:54.140 the impact politically,

00:17:56.720 as you said,

00:17:57.740 was that the Anglophones

00:17:59.180 who were dominant,

00:18:00.520 you know,

00:18:00.820 economically speaking,

00:18:02.440 well, there was a shift

00:18:04.420 on that side as well

00:18:05.540 with the growth

00:18:06.220 of the nationalist

00:18:07.440 and the separatist movement.

00:18:08.780 And I want to make sure here

00:18:10.080 that we differentiate nationalism

00:18:11.560 and separatism in Quebec.

00:18:13.420 I define myself

00:18:14.560 as a nationalist,

00:18:16.020 which means that I,

00:18:16.980 you know,

00:18:17.180 I'm proud of being francophone.

00:18:18.900 I do believe that

00:18:19.680 the common language

00:18:20.420 in Quebec is French.

00:18:22.000 And I think that

00:18:22.760 even Anglophones agree

00:18:24.580 with that here in Quebec.

00:18:25.680 There's one million

00:18:26.360 non-francophones in Quebec

00:18:27.980 who choose to stay here.

00:18:30.640 And the profile

00:18:31.660 of those people today

00:18:33.000 is very different

00:18:34.420 than the one we had

00:18:35.340 in the 60s or 70s.

00:18:37.260 The English community,

00:18:38.520 to give you an example,

00:18:39.440 75% of parents

00:18:41.780 who have kids at school

00:18:42.940 here in Montreal

00:18:44.020 and elsewhere in Quebec

00:18:45.580 who are non-francophones,

00:18:47.800 75% of them

00:18:49.100 now send their kids

00:18:50.280 to a French school,

00:18:51.840 immersion programs

00:18:53.340 or bilingual schools,

00:18:54.500 you know,

00:18:54.660 so they want their kids 0.65

00:18:55.780 to be bilingual

00:18:56.520 and to grow in French

00:18:58.000 and in English.

00:18:59.020 So it's not French 0.90

00:19:00.760 against English.

00:19:01.640 And I think that nowadays

00:19:03.040 my nationalism is positive.

00:19:05.760 Like,

00:19:05.900 I see Anglophones

00:19:07.020 as allies

00:19:08.140 to keep our uniqueness

00:19:09.720 in America

00:19:10.800 as a French society.

00:19:12.700 I don't see them

00:19:13.660 as a threat.

00:19:14.360 I don't see them

00:19:15.040 as enemies.

00:19:16.520 And that's,

00:19:17.180 but I'm a nationalist.

00:19:18.080 Like,

00:19:18.260 I do believe,

00:19:19.480 I don't believe

00:19:20.180 that Quebec

00:19:20.580 should become English

00:19:21.380 and we should assimilate.

00:19:22.420 That's not the point here.

00:19:23.680 So it's very different

00:19:24.860 to say we want

00:19:25.520 to break up Canada

00:19:26.600 and we want

00:19:27.120 to completely separate

00:19:28.020 and have it our own

00:19:28.880 and saying we want

00:19:29.960 to promote French.

00:19:30.760 And when you want

00:19:31.660 to become Quebec Premier,

00:19:33.340 as I do,

00:19:34.440 you have to understand

00:19:35.580 that one of your

00:19:36.360 first duties

00:19:37.300 is that you're not

00:19:38.760 just the leader

00:19:39.360 of a province

00:19:40.000 like elsewhere

00:19:40.720 or a state in the U.S.

00:19:42.160 You're also

00:19:42.920 the political leader

00:19:44.080 of the French minority

00:19:45.600 in America.

00:19:46.520 There's no one politically

00:19:47.620 that has more power

00:19:48.720 than you do.

00:19:49.840 And one of your

00:19:50.540 primary roles

00:19:51.520 is of course

00:19:52.160 to promote

00:19:52.780 and to protect French.

00:19:54.420 And I want to do that.

00:19:56.260 And I think it's important

00:19:57.200 for the Quebec Premier

00:19:58.140 to do that as well.

00:19:59.080 So that's on

00:20:01.400 the linguistic front

00:20:02.840 if I could say so

00:20:04.260 the way that we see it

00:20:06.940 and it does

00:20:09.140 as you said

00:20:09.860 the youth

00:20:10.560 has a different approach

00:20:11.840 because people who are

00:20:14.260 I would say

00:20:15.040 the shift is between

00:20:15.880 55 and 60 years old

00:20:17.520 right now in Quebec.

00:20:18.340 When you look at the polls

00:20:19.240 we're dominating

00:20:20.220 the latest

00:20:21.340 Main Street research

00:20:22.760 was saying that

00:20:24.200 we're dominating

00:20:25.320 between 18 and 50-ish

00:20:27.420 and then there's

00:20:28.300 a complete switch

00:20:29.300 and then when you're

00:20:30.320 at 65 and over

00:20:31.520 it's like 11 to 1

00:20:33.160 in favour of the CAC

00:20:34.260 the governing party

00:20:35.700 right now in Quebec.

00:20:36.700 So you see

00:20:37.380 it's a completely reversal

00:20:38.660 and we're especially

00:20:39.980 popular as Conservatives

00:20:41.480 among people

00:20:42.680 between 35 and 50

00:20:44.300 who still have kids

00:20:45.560 at home.

00:20:46.300 Those people

00:20:46.780 are the most

00:20:47.380 hardcore Conservatives

00:20:48.760 that you can find

00:20:49.900 right now in Quebec.

00:20:50.860 So it's interesting

00:20:51.680 to look at the demographics

00:20:52.880 but we have to understand

00:20:56.100 also that we're

00:20:57.000 post-crisis

00:20:58.600 and the crisis

00:21:00.480 changed the political

00:21:01.500 landscape as well.

00:21:02.680 You cannot lock down

00:21:04.580 a society for over two years

00:21:06.260 and think it's not going

00:21:07.400 to have any political impact.

00:21:09.220 The people who suffered

00:21:10.580 the most

00:21:11.140 and who were the less

00:21:12.520 at risk

00:21:13.240 are now

00:21:14.980 politically intervening

00:21:17.620 and expressing

00:21:18.240 their frustration

00:21:19.060 at a certain extent

00:21:20.080 and that also explains

00:21:22.300 why we're particularly

00:21:24.180 popular among parents

00:21:25.920 of young kids

00:21:26.720 compared to seniors.

00:21:28.920 So it's a

00:21:29.540 for a guy like you

00:21:31.400 who likes to analyse

00:21:32.140 what's going on

00:21:32.900 in societies

00:21:33.500 I think Quebec

00:21:34.200 is an interesting case

00:21:35.640 because we had

00:21:37.200 in North America

00:21:38.080 we were the most

00:21:39.000 locked down society

00:21:40.040 right?

00:21:40.480 There's nowhere else

00:21:41.520 in the continent

00:21:42.260 where restaurants

00:21:43.300 were shut down

00:21:44.240 as long as they were here

00:21:45.500 where even the

00:21:46.400 construction industry

00:21:47.460 was shut down

00:21:48.300 where even

00:21:49.180 we had passports

00:21:51.040 the longest time

00:21:52.140 to show passports

00:21:53.240 vaccine passports

00:21:54.200 to get in restaurants

00:21:56.520 or bars

00:21:57.180 or gyms

00:21:57.820 where we had

00:22:00.580 the carefew

00:22:01.680 the longest carefew

00:22:03.360 the most severe carefew

00:22:04.640 50,000 Quebecers

00:22:06.760 got caught

00:22:08.980 by the police

00:22:09.800 were either arrested

00:22:10.940 or given tickets

00:22:12.500 for $1,500

00:22:13.840 each on average

00:22:15.680 so I mean

00:22:16.580 we went through

00:22:17.220 a very very

00:22:18.060 strong period

00:22:19.600 the government

00:22:20.040 was the most severe

00:22:22.320 at many extent

00:22:23.660 and so it's probably

00:22:25.380 having a biggest

00:22:26.220 political impact

00:22:27.080 so it's not surprising

00:22:28.080 that you see

00:22:29.120 a political leader

00:22:29.920 like me

00:22:30.440 raising as quickly

00:22:31.720 as we did

00:22:32.420 over the last year

00:22:33.820 because you know

00:22:35.060 the government

00:22:35.540 went way way

00:22:36.420 very far

00:22:37.160 with the authority

00:22:39.040 and now there's

00:22:40.280 kind of a counterbalance

00:22:41.360 of people

00:22:41.880 who are looking

00:22:42.480 for a politician

00:22:43.780 that respects much more

00:22:45.140 their civic rights

00:22:46.140 and their individual freedoms

00:22:47.780 so it's a counterbalance

00:22:50.320 I think we are

00:22:51.100 and I want to also

00:22:52.580 to point out one thing

00:22:53.600 because that may be

00:22:55.180 of interest to everybody

00:22:56.060 as well

00:22:56.580 here in Quebec

00:22:57.540 you know

00:22:58.360 we have never seen

00:22:59.440 a political party

00:23:00.440 raising as quickly

00:23:01.900 as the Conservative Party

00:23:03.120 has over the last year

00:23:04.680 when I decided

00:23:06.520 to run for the leadership

00:23:07.700 of the party

00:23:08.320 less than two years ago

00:23:09.600 there were 500 members

00:23:11.260 in the party

00:23:11.780 as we speak

00:23:12.880 we have 60,000 members

00:23:14.580 we're by far

00:23:15.280 the largest party

00:23:16.380 in terms of membership

00:23:18.020 we went from 1%

00:23:19.780 in the polls

00:23:20.600 to somewhere

00:23:21.680 between 15 and 20%

00:23:24.200 right now

00:23:24.940 and we are the party

00:23:27.280 that has the largest

00:23:28.120 amount of donors

00:23:29.060 in Quebec this year

00:23:30.200 we're now represented

00:23:31.140 at the National Assembly

00:23:32.220 because I convinced

00:23:33.480 one of the members

00:23:34.140 of the CAC

00:23:34.680 to cross the floor

00:23:36.020 and join us

00:23:36.700 we're going to participate

00:23:37.980 in the leaders debate

00:23:39.100 I mean

00:23:39.880 we're going up

00:23:41.260 very very quickly

00:23:42.260 and we've never seen that

00:23:44.380 usually for a political party

00:23:46.320 it takes a few elections

00:23:47.420 to reach the point

00:23:49.360 where we're at right now

00:23:50.420 for us

00:23:51.100 it took us a year

00:23:52.000 and when you spoke

00:23:53.020 about the media

00:23:53.780 the impact of the media

00:23:54.980 I just want to underline

00:23:56.980 that during my leadership race

00:23:58.680 between November 2020

00:24:00.780 and April 2021

00:24:02.880 that I got one single article

00:24:05.740 in the Main Street newspaper

00:24:07.420 a daily paper in Quebec

00:24:08.720 it was in Le Devoir

00:24:09.620 when José Verner

00:24:10.480 a senator

00:24:11.040 decided to support me

00:24:14.180 and become the president

00:24:15.120 of my leadership race

00:24:16.420 and Le Devoir wrote an article

00:24:18.580 which is not the main

00:24:19.520 daily paper

00:24:20.340 and that was the only article

00:24:22.420 and at the end

00:24:23.100 of the leadership race

00:24:24.060 I had 15,000 members

00:24:26.220 I had more members

00:24:27.220 than the governing party

00:24:28.360 of the Premier of Quebec

00:24:29.840 and not one single other media

00:24:32.360 did talk about us

00:24:33.400 they didn't even acknowledge

00:24:34.440 our existence

00:24:35.160 so it shows the shift

00:24:37.100 and it explains

00:24:38.100 why people like you

00:24:39.080 are more popular

00:24:40.000 than complete networks now

00:24:41.620 and it explains

00:24:43.740 the difference

00:24:44.940 and also the generational clash

00:24:48.480 at a certain extent

00:24:49.460 in terms of media

00:24:50.940 Right, right, right

00:24:52.420 Well I should also

00:24:53.520 point out for the listeners

00:24:54.920 so I know Quebec

00:24:56.580 reasonably well

00:24:57.460 because I lived in Montreal

00:24:58.660 from 1985 to 1993

00:25:01.440 and I loved Montreal

00:25:03.060 and for all of you

00:25:03.980 who are listening

00:25:04.540 especially in North America

00:25:06.060 where it's easy

00:25:06.700 there is no better place

00:25:08.700 on the North American continent

00:25:10.220 to visit in many ways

00:25:12.020 if you're interested

00:25:12.800 in an urban holiday

00:25:13.860 than Montreal

00:25:14.480 Montreal is a great city

00:25:16.180 and I say that

00:25:18.240 despite the fact

00:25:21.000 that the province

00:25:22.200 that I grew up in

00:25:23.320 Alberta

00:25:23.860 is in many ways

00:25:26.020 the most

00:25:27.460 it has the most

00:25:29.160 fractious relationship

00:25:30.420 in many ways

00:25:31.180 with Quebec

00:25:31.780 partly because

00:25:33.540 Alberta is

00:25:34.500 very English

00:25:36.020 in its linguistic

00:25:37.240 traditions

00:25:38.200 I took French

00:25:39.140 in school

00:25:39.960 throughout my entire life

00:25:41.260 but

00:25:41.480 no one in Alberta

00:25:43.240 speaks French

00:25:43.900 to speak of

00:25:44.500 and it's very difficult

00:25:45.180 to pick up a language

00:25:46.160 when even your teachers

00:25:47.560 can't really speak it

00:25:49.240 and there's no

00:25:50.020 use of it in public

00:25:51.620 I moved to Montreal

00:25:53.080 when

00:25:54.380 the separatist movement

00:25:56.120 was really quite strong

00:25:58.020 and I moved there

00:25:59.100 with my wife

00:26:00.420 who had a very difficult time

00:26:02.100 obtaining employment

00:26:03.120 although she could speak French

00:26:04.740 reasonably well

00:26:05.600 she was Anglophone

00:26:06.820 and there were

00:26:07.680 real obstacles

00:26:08.480 in her path

00:26:09.260 I went to an English university

00:26:11.140 and so that

00:26:11.800 protected me

00:26:12.720 in some sense

00:26:13.320 from my linguistic

00:26:14.140 the consequences

00:26:15.260 of my linguistic ignorance

00:26:16.500 but

00:26:17.160 I loved Montreal

00:26:18.780 and although

00:26:20.000 I was not very happy

00:26:21.460 in some sense

00:26:22.400 being a Westerner

00:26:23.220 about Quebec nationalism

00:26:24.520 or Quebec separatism

00:26:25.840 in particular

00:26:26.360 one of the things

00:26:27.380 I did understand

00:26:28.300 very rapidly

00:26:29.000 was that

00:26:29.560 part of this

00:26:30.700 stunning charm

00:26:31.620 of Montreal

00:26:32.200 and part of what

00:26:33.100 makes it unique

00:26:33.920 was a consequence

00:26:35.800 of the very real

00:26:37.800 barriers

00:26:38.380 that those

00:26:39.560 who were determined

00:26:40.360 to protect

00:26:41.080 Quebec culture

00:26:42.000 had erected

00:26:43.480 around the

00:26:44.640 local institutions

00:26:46.460 in Quebec

00:26:47.920 and so one of the things

00:26:49.060 that's very interesting

00:26:49.880 about Montreal

00:26:50.540 downtown

00:26:51.040 it's a very walkable city

00:26:52.860 by the way

00:26:53.240 it has great restaurants

00:26:54.240 and great bars

00:26:56.060 and

00:26:56.640 an unbelievably

00:26:58.600 vibrant

00:26:59.600 and safe

00:27:00.480 and dynamic

00:27:01.300 and interesting

00:27:02.140 and creative

00:27:02.840 street life

00:27:03.740 and the

00:27:04.920 Montreal municipal

00:27:05.940 authorities

00:27:06.440 have done a lovely job

00:27:07.540 of regenerating

00:27:08.300 the old city

00:27:08.940 and the old port

00:27:09.780 looks great

00:27:10.480 and Montreal

00:27:11.620 is just a wonderful city

00:27:12.940 and because

00:27:14.680 of the barriers

00:27:16.160 to

00:27:16.720 Anglophone dominance 0.98

00:27:18.360 that's the

00:27:19.180 Canadian word

00:27:20.120 for English dominance

00:27:21.100 let's say

00:27:21.720 the city never

00:27:23.680 became homogenized

00:27:24.860 in its corporate culture

00:27:26.480 and there were

00:27:27.000 a tremendous

00:27:27.760 proliferation

00:27:28.960 of local businesses

00:27:30.140 and that

00:27:31.160 they all had

00:27:31.820 all the charm

00:27:32.540 of local businesses

00:27:33.360 so they weren't

00:27:34.080 chains of restaurants

00:27:35.260 that were

00:27:35.820 exactly the same

00:27:37.060 as restaurants

00:27:37.600 everywhere else

00:27:38.440 and so

00:27:39.700 despite the fact

00:27:41.260 that these barriers

00:27:42.620 linguistic barriers

00:27:44.980 made life

00:27:45.880 in some ways

00:27:46.800 more difficult

00:27:47.360 for me personally

00:27:48.380 as an English speaker

00:27:49.680 and despite the fact

00:27:51.000 that I was somewhat

00:27:51.840 irritated about the fact

00:27:53.140 that the English

00:27:54.660 had been routed

00:27:55.860 out of Quebec

00:27:56.420 in some fundamental way

00:27:57.860 and that the relationship

00:28:00.180 between Alberta

00:28:01.000 and Quebec

00:28:01.500 was fractious

00:28:02.300 I loved Montreal

00:28:03.700 and every time

00:28:04.400 I go back there

00:28:05.160 I'm thrilled

00:28:06.300 to be there

00:28:06.880 it really is

00:28:07.720 a remarkably

00:28:08.760 wonderful city

00:28:09.560 and so

00:28:09.940 it begs the question

00:28:11.420 you know

00:28:11.740 how do you

00:28:13.260 preserve the local

00:28:14.680 while maintaining

00:28:16.240 integration

00:28:16.960 with the

00:28:17.820 superordinate

00:28:19.120 and we have that

00:28:19.960 problem in the world

00:28:20.680 right now

00:28:21.220 because the world

00:28:22.040 is increasingly

00:28:22.700 international

00:28:23.740 in some real sense

00:28:24.860 there's a real

00:28:26.200 utility

00:28:27.500 in preserving

00:28:28.220 local culture

00:28:29.060 and

00:28:29.400 at the town level

00:28:31.380 at the province level

00:28:32.560 at the state level

00:28:34.480 at the national level

00:28:35.700 to preserve

00:28:36.640 the autonomy

00:28:38.600 and unique charms

00:28:40.860 of each of those levels

00:28:42.000 but also to integrate

00:28:43.340 the whole

00:28:44.200 into a harmonious union

00:28:45.640 and all of us

00:28:46.640 are struggling

00:28:47.080 with that

00:28:47.560 in a major way

00:28:48.340 and Canada

00:28:48.880 struggles with that

00:28:49.800 internally

00:28:50.300 in a way

00:28:51.060 in some sense

00:28:51.680 that mirrors

00:28:52.140 the situation

00:28:52.840 in the entire world

00:28:53.840 and so that also

00:28:54.940 complicates

00:28:55.560 the political landscape

00:28:56.520 and so

00:28:57.660 now

00:28:58.300 having said that

00:28:59.460 you also said that

00:29:01.000 so Quebec

00:29:04.980 is also this

00:29:05.720 very interesting

00:29:06.480 contrast

00:29:07.120 because

00:29:08.360 Montreal is a

00:29:10.020 very free city

00:29:11.080 people

00:29:12.980 pursue their own

00:29:14.260 artistic interests

00:29:15.140 it has a very

00:29:15.840 dynamic

00:29:16.400 street life

00:29:17.720 people

00:29:18.840 people who live

00:29:20.200 in Montreal

00:29:20.680 live there

00:29:21.940 it isn't

00:29:22.700 a city that feels

00:29:23.740 like it's made up

00:29:24.520 of people who

00:29:25.140 move there

00:29:25.740 and

00:29:26.600 it's a very

00:29:27.700 free culture

00:29:28.340 but Quebec

00:29:29.420 also has this

00:29:30.440 other element

00:29:31.100 which exists

00:29:32.060 in paradoxical

00:29:32.900 juxtaposition

00:29:33.680 which is in some

00:29:35.120 ways

00:29:35.480 more authoritarian

00:29:36.720 in its proclivity

00:29:38.940 than any other

00:29:39.700 jurisdiction in Canada

00:29:40.940 I really saw that

00:29:41.880 when I interacted

00:29:43.040 with the government

00:29:44.480 at the municipal

00:29:45.800 level in Quebec

00:29:46.680 which was also

00:29:47.620 often breeding

00:29:48.540 all sorts of

00:29:49.520 regulations

00:29:49.960 that were just

00:29:50.560 absolutely unreasonable

00:29:51.700 and that was hard

00:29:52.280 to negotiate with

00:29:53.100 and you said that

00:29:53.840 Quebec

00:29:54.220 like France

00:29:55.480 had implemented

00:29:57.280 extremely

00:29:58.180 stringent

00:29:59.600 COVID lockdowns

00:30:01.060 which is so much

00:30:01.940 at odds

00:30:02.480 with the spirit

00:30:03.140 of a city

00:30:03.600 like Montreal

00:30:04.640 and you also

00:30:05.520 pointed out

00:30:06.040 that that's

00:30:06.520 bred a

00:30:07.400 desire for

00:30:09.060 would you say

00:30:09.880 a desire for

00:30:10.600 the more

00:30:10.920 libertarian

00:30:11.760 kind of

00:30:12.300 conservatism

00:30:13.080 that

00:30:13.340 if I've got

00:30:14.520 that right

00:30:14.920 that you represent

00:30:15.680 and would like

00:30:16.280 to make a case

00:30:16.900 for

00:30:17.140 yeah the

00:30:17.780 well you have

00:30:18.420 to understand

00:30:18.880 that as you

00:30:19.880 rightly pointed

00:30:20.420 out earlier

00:30:20.980 as well

00:30:21.500 when we talked

00:30:22.100 about the fact

00:30:22.780 that the

00:30:23.120 religious factor

00:30:24.040 was melting

00:30:25.760 down since the

00:30:26.580 60s

00:30:27.020 social conservatism

00:30:28.800 in Quebec

00:30:29.300 is almost

00:30:30.560 inexistent

00:30:31.320 like you know

00:30:32.180 I'm the first

00:30:34.420 openly gay 0.98

00:30:35.520 leader of a 0.86

00:30:37.140 conservative party

00:30:38.140 in Canada's

00:30:38.980 history

00:30:39.280 provincial or

00:30:40.100 federal

00:30:40.480 so I mean

00:30:42.420 that's

00:30:42.840 and it's not a

00:30:43.540 surprise that it's

00:30:44.260 happening here in

00:30:45.120 Quebec

00:30:45.360 because social

00:30:46.000 conservatism

00:30:46.720 is not part of

00:30:47.880 the coalition of

00:30:48.660 conservatives

00:30:49.240 that we are

00:30:50.500 we have fiscal

00:30:51.180 conservatives

00:30:51.780 and more

00:30:52.320 libertarian

00:30:52.940 conservatives

00:30:53.480 but there's no

00:30:55.020 there's not

00:30:55.620 we're very few

00:30:56.460 social conservatives

00:30:57.860 do you want to

00:30:58.660 outline the

00:30:59.180 difference between

00:30:59.900 those so that

00:31:00.520 everybody who's

00:31:01.160 listening understands

00:31:02.080 so you said

00:31:02.800 social fiscal

00:31:04.200 and libertarian

00:31:05.140 it isn't obvious

00:31:06.900 to people what

00:31:07.600 the differentiation

00:31:08.280 between the

00:31:09.080 various forms of

00:31:09.860 conservatism is

00:31:10.720 especially because

00:31:11.360 the legacy media

00:31:12.140 almost never talks

00:31:13.020 about it so

00:31:13.580 fiscal conservatism

00:31:15.640 is people who

00:31:16.520 want lower taxes

00:31:17.480 smaller state

00:31:18.680 you know

00:31:19.740 so that's

00:31:20.860 generally speaking

00:31:21.800 how we define

00:31:23.060 fiscal conservatives

00:31:24.320 social conservatives

00:31:26.380 are usually more

00:31:27.800 towards moral issues

00:31:29.580 so it's more

00:31:31.220 you know

00:31:32.160 gay rights

00:31:32.920 or abortion

00:31:33.660 or all those

00:31:35.220 hot issues

00:31:36.120 that we hear a lot

00:31:37.020 and the media

00:31:37.940 talks about

00:31:38.680 a lot about that

00:31:39.900 normally when they

00:31:40.740 talk about conservatives

00:31:41.760 and the third one

00:31:43.440 is the libertarian

00:31:44.320 it's the individual

00:31:45.820 rights

00:31:46.420 the respect

00:31:47.360 of civic rights

00:31:50.100 of individual

00:31:51.080 freedoms

00:31:51.660 so that's more

00:31:52.640 the aspect

00:31:55.000 the part

00:31:56.440 that I'm in

00:31:57.360 but you know

00:31:58.340 as a leader

00:31:59.020 you have to be

00:31:59.800 representing

00:32:00.760 all the wings

00:32:02.220 within your party

00:32:03.140 but there's

00:32:05.700 really three

00:32:06.440 I see three main

00:32:08.020 kind of conservatives

00:32:10.720 in Canada

00:32:12.040 and in Quebec

00:32:12.820 we only have two

00:32:13.840 out of the three

00:32:14.520 that's what I wanted

00:32:15.300 to point it out

00:32:16.000 and so it might be

00:32:18.200 a little bit different

00:32:18.860 than elsewhere

00:32:19.360 because even if

00:32:21.620 it's a contradiction

00:32:22.500 for many people

00:32:23.320 because they recall

00:32:24.240 Quebec before

00:32:25.060 pre-1960

00:32:26.040 which was the most

00:32:26.880 religious society

00:32:27.920 with a lot of kids

00:32:29.200 for everyone

00:32:29.760 and we went

00:32:31.860 from one side

00:32:33.880 to the other

00:32:34.460 completely

00:32:34.980 and now

00:32:35.480 the religious practices

00:32:37.000 here are much lower

00:32:38.260 and especially

00:32:39.440 among the youth

00:32:40.180 and that's why

00:32:41.080 our voters

00:32:42.160 are even younger

00:32:43.020 so it's a complete

00:32:44.840 shift as well

00:32:46.640 so the conservative

00:32:48.060 movement in Quebec

00:32:48.860 is different

00:32:49.540 and there's a

00:32:50.280 nationalist element

00:32:51.720 as well

00:32:52.300 that's probably not

00:32:53.160 existent elsewhere

00:32:54.860 in Canada

00:32:55.480 of people who want

00:32:57.240 to promote

00:32:57.660 and protect French

00:32:58.560 and our culture

00:32:59.520 and our uniqueness

00:33:00.280 because that's also

00:33:02.520 conserving

00:33:03.200 where we're from

00:33:04.680 and our roots

00:33:05.280 and our heritage

00:33:06.000 so what is it

00:33:08.400 that you're doing

00:33:09.140 or the conservative

00:33:10.080 party is doing

00:33:11.120 in Quebec

00:33:11.960 specifically

00:33:13.460 apart from

00:33:14.440 the reaction

00:33:15.900 against the

00:33:16.860 authoritarian

00:33:17.520 clampdowns

00:33:18.680 justified

00:33:19.720 hypothetically

00:33:20.540 by COVID

00:33:21.220 what do you think

00:33:22.540 that you're doing

00:33:23.580 that's working

00:33:24.940 let me give you

00:33:27.140 an example

00:33:27.720 one of the things

00:33:28.480 I found

00:33:29.040 as I've toured

00:33:29.880 around

00:33:30.320 and I suppose

00:33:31.740 making a case

00:33:32.520 at least for certain

00:33:33.540 conservative virtues

00:33:34.440 is that people

00:33:36.080 particularly young people

00:33:37.720 seem to respond

00:33:39.120 very well

00:33:39.900 to the idea

00:33:40.740 that there is

00:33:42.540 an intrinsic meaning

00:33:43.640 in life

00:33:44.560 and that intrinsic meaning

00:33:45.860 is not to be found

00:33:47.800 in the hedonistic

00:33:50.500 limitless freedom

00:33:52.160 that's characteristic

00:33:53.340 of an impulsive life

00:33:55.200 but more likely

00:33:56.180 to be found

00:33:56.820 especially under

00:33:57.580 conditions of duress

00:33:58.860 as a consequence

00:34:01.640 of adopting

00:34:02.480 the responsibility

00:34:04.340 of a mature life

00:34:06.960 and so that would be

00:34:08.160 well

00:34:09.080 existing

00:34:10.020 to some degree

00:34:11.360 in service

00:34:11.960 for other people

00:34:12.840 especially the people

00:34:13.900 that you love

00:34:14.660 in your family

00:34:15.520 accepting responsibility

00:34:17.260 for a marriage

00:34:18.900 and a long-term relationship

00:34:20.140 and accepting responsibility

00:34:22.980 welcoming it

00:34:23.780 for kids

00:34:24.780 and taking care

00:34:25.820 of your extended family

00:34:27.620 and serving your community

00:34:29.020 and this is all something

00:34:30.560 that conservatives

00:34:31.300 can really promote

00:34:32.620 and I think there's

00:34:33.360 an unbelievable hunger

00:34:34.420 for it

00:34:34.800 because one of the things

00:34:35.780 I've noticed

00:34:36.260 and I have discussed

00:34:37.040 this publicly a lot

00:34:38.000 I pay a lot of attention

00:34:39.440 to my audiences

00:34:40.220 and everywhere I go

00:34:42.080 in the world

00:34:42.700 if I make a case

00:34:45.520 for the nexus

00:34:47.240 let's say

00:34:47.820 between suffering

00:34:48.960 which is inevitable

00:34:49.880 and the meaning

00:34:51.960 that emerges

00:34:53.220 out of the voluntary

00:34:54.200 adoption of responsibility

00:34:55.760 everyone

00:34:56.900 falls silent

00:34:58.820 and that happens

00:35:00.000 all the time

00:35:01.100 and my sense

00:35:02.660 of that is

00:35:03.260 and this is part

00:35:03.960 of the reason

00:35:04.420 why I think

00:35:05.020 there's a conservative

00:35:05.800 opportunity

00:35:06.560 that's beckoning

00:35:07.440 in a major way

00:35:08.260 that you might be

00:35:09.060 tapping into

00:35:09.700 is that

00:35:10.180 what conservatives

00:35:11.460 have to offer

00:35:12.280 young people

00:35:13.120 and that's the first time

00:35:14.360 I've ever seen this

00:35:15.120 really be the case

00:35:15.980 is

00:35:16.320 the meaningful existence

00:35:18.700 that characterizes

00:35:20.440 it's so absurd

00:35:22.420 that it has to be said

00:35:23.420 that characterizes

00:35:24.560 genuine maturation

00:35:25.820 and sacrifice

00:35:26.660 on behalf of others

00:35:27.860 like as a real

00:35:28.720 viable pathway forward

00:35:30.840 existentially

00:35:31.780 and psychologically

00:35:32.580 to have

00:35:33.220 the kind of life

00:35:34.320 that enables you

00:35:35.580 to not be bitter

00:35:36.620 in the face of catastrophe

00:35:38.060 and so

00:35:38.680 now

00:35:39.700 it's a paradoxical thing

00:35:41.580 right

00:35:41.800 because apparently

00:35:42.560 what you're offering

00:35:43.360 on the libertarian side

00:35:44.540 is something like

00:35:45.160 freedom from

00:35:45.900 authoritarian constraint

00:35:47.200 that's an odd thing

00:35:48.760 in some sense

00:35:49.540 for a conservative

00:35:50.280 to be offering

00:35:51.120 but do you see

00:35:52.320 why is it that

00:35:54.440 what you're selling

00:35:56.940 so to speak

00:35:57.860 what you're promoting

00:35:59.280 is resonating

00:36:00.900 deeply among

00:36:02.460 younger people

00:36:03.660 in Quebec

00:36:04.120 and how do you

00:36:05.540 conceptualize that

00:36:06.560 from the perspective

00:36:07.560 of the development

00:36:08.420 let's say

00:36:08.840 of a political vision

00:36:09.780 which is something

00:36:10.780 that conservatives

00:36:11.440 tend to struggle to do

00:36:12.760 we have to understand

00:36:14.280 that historically

00:36:15.180 because we were stuck

00:36:16.360 in the old debate

00:36:17.160 in the old constitutional

00:36:18.180 fights and feuds

00:36:19.440 almost all the political parties

00:36:22.580 in Quebec

00:36:23.140 were more center left

00:36:24.560 it was all

00:36:25.400 they were all social democrats

00:36:26.820 and they were all

00:36:28.140 in favor of the nanny state

00:36:29.480 and that's why

00:36:30.100 in Quebec

00:36:30.580 we had

00:36:31.040 you know

00:36:31.660 a bigger state

00:36:33.100 the state intervention

00:36:34.140 was much stronger

00:36:35.160 than elsewhere

00:36:36.320 and even at the federal level

00:36:38.040 we used to vote

00:36:39.360 more liberal

00:36:40.040 and we

00:36:41.620 you know

00:36:42.200 it's always been

00:36:43.420 there was kind of

00:36:43.860 a consensus

00:36:44.400 on that side

00:36:45.300 and now that

00:36:46.460 that debate

00:36:47.940 is over

00:36:48.680 there's a new one

00:36:49.880 that is emerging

00:36:50.540 and of course

00:36:51.580 the fact that it's new

00:36:53.080 and the fact that it's fresh

00:36:54.120 and the fact that it's different

00:36:55.240 is attracting

00:36:55.820 already a younger crowd

00:36:57.760 because

00:36:58.120 you're not

00:36:59.440 you're not scaring them off

00:37:00.460 they love change

00:37:01.360 but there's also

00:37:02.480 the fact that

00:37:03.540 I do believe

00:37:04.960 that they're

00:37:05.540 you know

00:37:05.840 because of the social media

00:37:07.060 because of the new world

00:37:08.280 that we're in

00:37:08.880 they're much more open

00:37:10.160 towards the world

00:37:11.920 if I could say so

00:37:12.980 and they

00:37:14.300 that's something

00:37:15.600 you know

00:37:16.000 they want to be part

00:37:17.180 of something also larger

00:37:18.440 and for that

00:37:20.520 you need a little bit

00:37:21.160 more freedom

00:37:21.700 and you don't want to be

00:37:22.860 just limited to Quebec

00:37:24.040 and with the state intervention

00:37:26.420 everything is limited

00:37:27.260 to Quebec

00:37:27.760 everything is

00:37:28.460 so there's a vision

00:37:29.980 of looking outside

00:37:31.220 of the box

00:37:31.820 I think that helps out

00:37:33.060 a lot

00:37:33.580 the fact also

00:37:35.720 and I'm back

00:37:37.000 to what happened

00:37:37.720 over the last two years

00:37:38.740 who suffered the most

00:37:40.180 during those days

00:37:41.020 you know

00:37:41.320 you and I probably

00:37:42.540 you know

00:37:42.880 I care if you at 8 or 9 p.m

00:37:44.740 it's not the end of the world

00:37:45.840 but if I were 20

00:37:46.940 if I recall what I was doing

00:37:48.580 after 9 p.m

00:37:49.480 when I was 20

00:37:50.220 the impact was much larger on me

00:37:52.360 and I think they took

00:37:53.740 much more than seniors

00:37:55.740 they realized

00:37:56.620 how the state could

00:37:58.300 you know

00:37:59.360 ruin your life

00:38:00.800 at a certain extent

00:38:01.760 when they're pushing

00:38:02.540 the envelope

00:38:03.040 a little bit too far

00:38:04.140 and so that woke up

00:38:06.360 a lot of people

00:38:07.300 a lot of people

00:38:08.120 who were completely apolitical

00:38:09.600 it's not necessarily

00:38:10.460 people coming from

00:38:11.280 other parties

00:38:11.800 that are joining us

00:38:12.600 it's people who used

00:38:13.900 to not even vote

00:38:14.880 and now they're

00:38:16.140 card carrying members

00:38:17.080 and they're volunteers

00:38:18.020 on our campaigns

00:38:18.920 are even running for us

00:38:20.100 so there's something

00:38:21.880 very very different

00:38:22.760 the paradigm also

00:38:23.880 has shift

00:38:24.960 on that side

00:38:26.340 and

00:38:26.740 it's a

00:38:28.080 you know

00:38:30.000 for many of us

00:38:30.860 we realize

00:38:31.740 that politics

00:38:32.660 could intervene

00:38:33.780 a lot in our life

00:38:34.760 and that's why

00:38:35.300 we're standing up

00:38:36.060 to say look

00:38:36.780 you know

00:38:37.460 stay out of it

00:38:38.360 there's limits

00:38:38.960 and that's why

00:38:39.820 even the slogan

00:38:40.540 of our campaign

00:38:41.300 is

00:38:41.560 libre chez nous

00:38:42.600 we didn't know

00:38:44.020 you can't translate

00:38:45.220 that perfectly

00:38:45.940 in English

00:38:46.500 but if we translate

00:38:47.420 it word to word

00:38:48.200 it's free at home

00:38:49.780 so it's

00:38:51.320 but

00:38:51.540 and

00:38:52.940 what it says

00:38:54.640 is that

00:38:55.100 you know

00:38:55.460 there's limits

00:38:56.340 I want to have

00:38:57.020 the control

00:38:57.400 we're talking about

00:38:58.160 your family

00:38:58.800 your unit

00:39:00.040 so even our slogan

00:39:01.400 refers to that

00:39:02.420 you know

00:39:03.300 like the state

00:39:03.980 cannot cross

00:39:04.980 my entrance door

00:39:06.540 without my will

00:39:07.520 and

00:39:08.640 the

00:39:09.380 so

00:39:10.260 you know

00:39:11.360 we want

00:39:11.720 we want to go back

00:39:12.560 to give

00:39:12.920 to be empowered

00:39:13.980 of what we're doing

00:39:15.260 within our own houses

00:39:16.880 and

00:39:17.740 it's

00:39:18.820 and that for

00:39:19.640 a new generation

00:39:20.760 is probably something

00:39:21.740 that is

00:39:22.300 you know

00:39:23.560 is more interesting

00:39:24.260 and

00:39:24.560 and even

00:39:25.120 worldwide right now

00:39:26.560 we see that

00:39:27.480 you know

00:39:28.100 our parents

00:39:29.100 were more

00:39:29.760 collectivist

00:39:30.800 in many ways

00:39:31.540 you know

00:39:31.840 like just

00:39:32.300 when you were talking

00:39:32.940 about the separatist movement

00:39:33.980 the separatist movement

00:39:34.960 at the base

00:39:36.360 was a collective movement

00:39:38.340 you know

00:39:38.620 it was

00:39:38.940 as francophones

00:39:40.360 as old

00:39:41.280 French Canadians

00:39:42.560 you know

00:39:44.000 it had something

00:39:44.620 very collective

00:39:45.340 and nowadays

00:39:46.780 because of social media

00:39:48.460 we're a little bit

00:39:49.040 more individualistic

00:39:50.140 I think

00:39:50.580 at many extent

00:39:51.340 and you know

00:39:52.260 we

00:39:52.480 yes we are

00:39:54.020 francophone

00:39:54.580 yes we are

00:39:55.120 Quebecers 0.66

00:39:55.700 but we're also

00:39:56.520 part of all sorts

00:39:57.340 of groups

00:39:57.820 and all sorts

00:39:58.440 of friends

00:39:58.880 all over the world

00:39:59.680 and we unite

00:40:00.620 based on different

00:40:01.640 issues

00:40:02.180 than just our

00:40:02.860 language

00:40:03.220 or our

00:40:03.700 geographic

00:40:04.220 limitations

00:40:05.720 so

00:40:06.640 the

00:40:07.000 it also has

00:40:08.740 an impact

00:40:09.380 on your

00:40:10.140 political reality

00:40:11.120 when it's time

00:40:11.680 to vote

00:40:12.100 so

00:40:12.360 well

00:40:13.000 you can imagine

00:40:14.120 that

00:40:14.460 okay

00:40:14.920 so

00:40:15.180 Quebec was united

00:40:16.580 in some sense

00:40:17.360 on the French side

00:40:18.180 under the Catholic Church

00:40:19.260 and then

00:40:19.700 that fragmented

00:40:21.000 and then

00:40:22.040 Quebec

00:40:22.500 attempted to unite

00:40:23.860 under the auspices

00:40:25.320 of a collective

00:40:26.360 nationalism

00:40:27.040 and so

00:40:28.260 and then

00:40:29.020 one of the consequences

00:40:30.280 was that

00:40:31.180 was that people

00:40:32.100 were turning

00:40:32.680 to a

00:40:33.340 powerful

00:40:34.160 and unified

00:40:34.760 state

00:40:35.200 as a vehicle

00:40:35.820 for their dreams

00:40:36.700 and that meant

00:40:37.880 that the state

00:40:38.460 became

00:40:38.960 as it became

00:40:40.180 the vehicle

00:40:40.900 for those dreams

00:40:41.540 it also became

00:40:42.400 more intrusive

00:40:44.160 in the ways

00:40:45.060 that would be

00:40:45.520 associated

00:40:46.100 with excess

00:40:47.080 let's say

00:40:48.000 pretensions

00:40:48.780 of benevolence

00:40:49.720 and then

00:40:50.560 you're making

00:40:51.060 the case

00:40:51.560 that

00:40:51.840 that became

00:40:53.520 the limitations

00:40:54.320 of that approach

00:40:55.080 became radically

00:40:55.920 evident to young

00:40:56.760 people

00:40:57.140 when the state

00:40:58.200 overplayed its hand

00:40:59.360 in the aftermath

00:41:00.420 of the COVID

00:41:01.240 pandemic

00:41:02.080 and locked them

00:41:03.280 down way too hard

00:41:04.400 and that woke up

00:41:05.680 a generation

00:41:06.320 of young people

00:41:07.100 to the dangers

00:41:08.040 of the overweening

00:41:09.380 state

00:41:09.820 even if that

00:41:11.020 was allied

00:41:11.580 with some

00:41:12.860 desirable expression

00:41:14.500 of nationalism

00:41:15.600 and group identity

00:41:16.640 does that seem

00:41:17.400 about right?

00:41:18.000 yeah that's about

00:41:18.860 that's about

00:41:19.420 how I feel

00:41:20.420 it's like

00:41:20.700 that's what we saw

00:41:21.580 over the last few months

00:41:22.860 the last few years

00:41:23.600 here in Quebec

00:41:24.060 it's

00:41:24.480 it happened elsewhere

00:41:25.980 as well

00:41:26.420 it's not

00:41:26.860 we're not unique

00:41:27.640 in the world

00:41:28.120 where it did happen

00:41:28.940 but I think here

00:41:29.960 it hit a little bit

00:41:30.820 faster and stronger

00:41:32.140 so the difference

00:41:34.340 and that's why

00:41:34.920 Quebec society

00:41:35.640 is an interesting case

00:41:36.640 because of that

00:41:37.460 because as I said

00:41:38.800 we usually react quickly

00:41:40.140 and more homogeneously

00:41:42.460 than elsewhere

00:41:43.220 and so from a

00:41:45.120 sociological perspective

00:41:46.420 that's what you can

00:41:48.260 observe right now

00:41:49.180 so on the policy side

00:41:51.800 so let's

00:41:53.160 there's a principle

00:41:54.120 that governs

00:41:55.160 conservative thinking

00:41:56.140 that's actually

00:41:56.860 derived from the

00:41:57.580 Catholic Church

00:41:58.200 and then even more

00:41:59.480 deeply derived

00:42:00.240 from an older

00:42:00.860 biblical tradition

00:42:01.820 based on the

00:42:02.580 Old Testament

00:42:03.160 Exodus story

00:42:04.200 that proper governance

00:42:06.960 proper distribution

00:42:09.040 of responsibility

00:42:10.000 should follow

00:42:10.600 the principle

00:42:11.200 of subsidiarity

00:42:13.020 and so the notion is

00:42:14.320 and Edmund Burke

00:42:15.380 developed this as well

00:42:16.300 it's a very good notion

00:42:17.420 and I think it's correct

00:42:18.540 it's one of the things

00:42:19.340 that attracts me

00:42:20.140 in some fundamental sense

00:42:21.580 to conservative thinking

00:42:22.620 which is that

00:42:23.320 well

00:42:24.660 you can imagine a state

00:42:25.980 where there's a single

00:42:27.180 executive

00:42:27.660 who has all the power

00:42:28.860 and the people have none

00:42:30.180 and then you'd think

00:42:31.200 of that as a tyranny

00:42:32.120 and that's obviously

00:42:32.960 not desirable

00:42:33.780 and then you might think

00:42:35.480 well what's the alternative

00:42:36.420 to a tyranny

00:42:37.480 and you might say

00:42:38.160 well direct democracy

00:42:39.760 where the voice

00:42:41.820 of the people

00:42:42.360 rules supreme

00:42:43.120 and the leader

00:42:43.640 must follow

00:42:44.660 the whims

00:42:46.100 of the crowd

00:42:47.360 but the problem

00:42:48.280 with that is

00:42:48.940 that it's not that easy

00:42:50.460 to figure out

00:42:50.980 what the crowd thinks

00:42:52.060 and the entire system

00:42:53.460 can fall prey

00:42:54.400 to suddenly arising

00:42:56.360 poorly organized

00:42:57.740 deviant impulses

00:42:59.200 and so

00:43:00.200 what the founders

00:43:01.800 of the American state

00:43:02.900 did

00:43:03.200 and many other states

00:43:04.340 as well

00:43:04.740 is set up a series

00:43:05.840 of intermediary

00:43:07.020 structures of power

00:43:08.400 let's say

00:43:09.960 and so you could

00:43:10.660 sort of list them up

00:43:11.520 hierarchically

00:43:12.300 there would be

00:43:12.900 the domain of

00:43:14.120 responsibility

00:43:14.720 of the individual

00:43:15.780 there'd be the domain

00:43:17.180 of the responsibility

00:43:18.160 of the married couple

00:43:19.940 of the family

00:43:21.340 of the local community

00:43:23.040 then the town

00:43:24.740 then the state

00:43:25.800 or province

00:43:26.900 and then the country

00:43:27.840 and then

00:43:28.820 each of those levels

00:43:31.020 would be

00:43:31.800 requested

00:43:33.880 to take

00:43:35.340 as much responsibility

00:43:36.460 for what they could

00:43:37.980 at the local level

00:43:39.300 and the relationship

00:43:40.940 between all those levels

00:43:42.260 should be governed

00:43:42.900 by the principle

00:43:43.660 that if it can be decided

00:43:45.540 at a lower level

00:43:47.400 then it should be

00:43:49.640 and the reason

00:43:51.520 that that's useful

00:43:52.340 is twofold

00:43:53.120 one is that

00:43:53.840 it's a really

00:43:54.920 good way

00:43:56.300 of distributing

00:43:57.200 of delegating

00:43:58.460 responsibility

00:43:59.160 it's very efficient

00:44:00.280 if everyone

00:44:01.040 plays their role

00:44:01.860 the second is

00:44:03.220 and this is another thing

00:44:04.360 the conservatives

00:44:04.920 really have on their side

00:44:06.280 you know

00:44:07.040 if the state

00:44:07.660 does everything

00:44:08.420 for you

00:44:09.060 let's say

00:44:09.760 well in a sense

00:44:11.440 you're secure

00:44:12.360 although you're not

00:44:14.320 because you're beholden

00:44:15.740 to the benevolence

00:44:17.520 of the state

00:44:18.180 and that can be

00:44:18.960 taken away arbitrarily

00:44:20.240 but the downside is

00:44:21.920 this is one of the downsides

00:44:24.500 of universal basic income proposals

00:44:26.180 it's like

00:44:26.680 well what the hell

00:44:27.740 is there left 0.66

00:44:28.320 for you to do

00:44:29.140 if the state

00:44:30.560 does everything

00:44:31.140 for you

00:44:31.880 well you're secure

00:44:33.940 but you're

00:44:35.020 what's your life then

00:44:36.300 you have no purpose

00:44:37.120 and if the purpose

00:44:38.400 of life

00:44:38.880 and this is another thing

00:44:39.820 that the more libertarian

00:44:40.860 conservatives

00:44:41.480 could be offering

00:44:42.300 is like

00:44:42.700 imagine that the purpose

00:44:43.940 of your life

00:44:44.520 isn't security

00:44:45.320 and satiation

00:44:46.240 because you're not

00:44:47.040 just an overgrown infant

00:44:48.680 imagine instead

00:44:50.480 that the purpose

00:44:51.120 of your life

00:44:51.680 is something like

00:44:52.580 responsible

00:44:54.620 productive

00:44:55.420 generous

00:44:56.300 adventure

00:44:57.260 and then the call

00:44:59.980 would be

00:45:00.520 make space

00:45:02.460 for people

00:45:02.920 to manifest that

00:45:03.980 in the particularities

00:45:05.800 of their own life

00:45:06.840 and then everyone

00:45:08.720 has a real part

00:45:09.660 to play

00:45:10.080 and no one

00:45:10.720 in some real sense

00:45:11.700 is subordinate

00:45:12.400 to anyone else

00:45:13.200 like there'd be

00:45:13.660 a hierarchical structure

00:45:15.240 and some people

00:45:15.920 like you

00:45:16.340 would be leading

00:45:17.080 at the more abstract

00:45:18.640 levels

00:45:19.340 but your power

00:45:20.740 would be

00:45:21.220 or your authority

00:45:22.120 and your responsibility

00:45:22.980 would be properly

00:45:24.080 delimited

00:45:24.880 and everything else

00:45:26.680 everybody else

00:45:27.420 was doing

00:45:27.860 all the way down

00:45:28.540 the hierarchy

00:45:29.100 right to the level

00:45:29.960 of running

00:45:30.900 their individual

00:45:31.600 enterprise

00:45:32.240 would in some sense

00:45:33.900 be just as meaningful

00:45:36.100 and just as crucial

00:45:37.880 and that strikes me

00:45:39.780 as an extraordinarily

00:45:40.640 useful vision

00:45:42.180 of governance

00:45:42.960 especially in the aftermath

00:45:44.380 of the COVID fiasco

00:45:45.820 and it's interesting

00:45:47.500 because that's something

00:45:48.960 that you're right

00:45:49.600 the conservatives

00:45:50.260 in Canada

00:45:51.000 have not exploited

00:45:52.180 as much as they could

00:45:53.300 because you're

00:45:54.600 you know

00:45:55.020 philosophically

00:45:55.820 we want power

00:45:57.040 to be the closest

00:45:57.960 to the citizen

00:45:58.800 as possible

00:45:59.520 we're supposed

00:46:00.340 to be the party

00:46:01.240 of decentralization

00:46:02.500 and especially

00:46:03.620 with the Quebec question

00:46:05.100 you know

00:46:07.160 the conservatives

00:46:07.940 should be the party

00:46:09.380 that is the closest

00:46:10.160 to the Quebec

00:46:10.860 aspiration traditionally

00:46:12.240 because one of the

00:46:14.080 big problems

00:46:14.820 in Canada

00:46:15.340 was the one size

00:46:16.540 fits all

00:46:17.080 from Ottawa

00:46:17.720 and it didn't fit

00:46:19.260 in Quebec

00:46:19.640 because we were different

00:46:20.680 in many aspects

00:46:21.560 for all sorts

00:46:22.320 of linguistic

00:46:22.940 historical reasons

00:46:24.300 and so

00:46:25.820 many conservatives

00:46:27.260 that I know

00:46:27.900 in Ottawa

00:46:28.340 are the most

00:46:29.080 decentralist politicians

00:46:30.300 of them all

00:46:30.980 on the national stage

00:46:31.920 but unfortunately

00:46:32.860 conservatives

00:46:33.880 have never been

00:46:34.600 it's never been

00:46:35.080 a stronghold

00:46:35.720 for conservatism

00:46:36.620 in Quebec

00:46:37.040 well not for

00:46:38.340 like a century

00:46:39.040 but and it's

00:46:40.540 there's a

00:46:41.380 it should be

00:46:42.520 the opposite

00:46:42.980 and when you were

00:46:43.740 talking about Alberta

00:46:44.940 earlier on

00:46:45.660 because where you're

00:46:46.520 where you're from

00:46:47.120 originally

00:46:47.560 the Alberta

00:46:48.980 after Quebec

00:46:49.880 is the most

00:46:50.620 decentralist province

00:46:51.880 in Canada

00:46:52.420 and we should be

00:46:53.960 the strongest allies

00:46:55.380 but as you said

00:46:56.700 we're often

00:46:58.020 on opposite sides

00:47:00.260 because

00:47:00.920 for all sorts

00:47:02.040 of other reasons

00:47:02.920 but philosophically

00:47:04.060 in terms of

00:47:04.880 decentralization

00:47:05.740 and power

00:47:06.400 vis-a-vis citizen

00:47:07.760 we're the ones

00:47:09.380 who share

00:47:09.860 the similar view

00:47:11.440 like

00:47:11.700 and we should

00:47:12.620 always be

00:47:13.460 on the same side

00:47:14.160 and we should not

00:47:14.860 be a centralist

00:47:16.320 and look at Ottawa

00:47:17.620 and think

00:47:18.580 that they know best

00:47:19.460 so the

00:47:20.520 and that's what

00:47:21.900 I'm trying to

00:47:22.540 propose as well

00:47:23.440 I think it will be

00:47:24.240 important

00:47:24.620 if we can have

00:47:25.380 a real

00:47:25.880 conservative party

00:47:27.520 in Quebec

00:47:28.040 at the provincial level

00:47:29.700 and it's important

00:47:30.360 because Quebecers

00:47:31.340 unlike other Canadians 1.00

00:47:32.660 we do identify

00:47:33.960 ourselves

00:47:34.560 first and foremost

00:47:35.880 to our provincial

00:47:36.820 government

00:47:37.320 more than the federal

00:47:38.440 you know

00:47:39.000 the federal

00:47:39.360 it's like having

00:47:40.460 you know

00:47:40.860 our nationality

00:47:42.060 is Quebec

00:47:42.500 and our passport

00:47:44.000 is Canadian

00:47:44.640 so that's how

00:47:47.280 we define ourselves

00:47:48.320 and so

00:47:49.140 the most important

00:47:50.200 government for us

00:47:51.220 is our provincial

00:47:52.080 government

00:47:52.440 because you know

00:47:53.280 all the main things

00:47:54.380 education

00:47:54.920 health care

00:47:55.540 and all sorts

00:47:56.360 of things

00:47:56.680 it's provincial

00:47:57.340 the federal government

00:47:58.420 is managing

00:47:59.000 things that are

00:47:59.540 very far away

00:48:00.240 from us

00:48:00.620 international relations

00:48:01.720 and the army

00:48:02.520 and Canada Post

00:48:04.140 but that's how

00:48:04.760 we see it

00:48:05.320 like so

00:48:05.980 our sense of

00:48:07.960 community

00:48:08.320 is related

00:48:09.000 to the provincial

00:48:09.640 government

00:48:10.020 and in Alberta

00:48:10.680 after Quebec

00:48:11.380 it's the province

00:48:12.000 where they have

00:48:12.580 that as high

00:48:13.620 as we do

00:48:14.140 there's a strong

00:48:15.820 sentiment

00:48:16.340 of Alberta

00:48:17.680 first

00:48:18.180 and

00:48:18.920 so

00:48:20.700 if we have

00:48:21.420 a true

00:48:22.140 conservative

00:48:22.680 movement

00:48:23.120 in Quebec

00:48:23.540 that could last

00:48:24.740 not just for an election

00:48:25.780 but for a generation

00:48:26.740 or two

00:48:27.240 I think we're going

00:48:28.540 to see new

00:48:29.580 alliances

00:48:31.240 between

00:48:32.040 conservatives

00:48:33.520 in Quebec

00:48:34.140 and elsewhere

00:48:34.820 in Canada

00:48:35.360 and it could have

00:48:36.420 a huge impact

00:48:37.260 on the federal level

00:48:38.360 and as you said

00:48:40.160 the dominant party

00:48:41.420 historically

00:48:41.860 has been the liberals

00:48:42.740 but if we're able

00:48:43.880 to switch Quebec

00:48:44.720 which has always been

00:48:46.020 one of the reasons

00:48:47.060 why the liberals

00:48:47.880 were much more in power

00:48:48.900 than the conservatives

00:48:50.800 because the French

00:48:52.740 Canadian Catholics

00:48:53.820 used to vote more

00:48:55.020 for the liberals

00:48:55.780 historically

00:48:56.320 it was more

00:48:56.980 the Catholics

00:48:57.880 were voting

00:49:00.060 more liberal

00:49:00.700 and if that shifts

00:49:03.220 and if the decentralists

00:49:04.580 start to link together

00:49:06.220 in Canada

00:49:06.800 and those who want

00:49:07.720 to have

00:49:08.160 the power closest

00:49:09.940 to them

00:49:10.400 the subsidiarity

00:49:11.380 as you talked about

00:49:13.220 then it could

00:49:14.940 we're going to reshape

00:49:16.100 not just Quebec politics

00:49:17.400 but Canadian politics

00:49:18.660 all together

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00:50:25.820 well you could imagine

00:50:29.940 you could imagine

00:50:31.380 a vision

00:50:32.000 that

00:50:33.520 made the case

00:50:35.460 that

00:50:35.960 Quebec has 0.62

00:50:37.900 maintained

00:50:38.440 its distinct

00:50:39.280 and valuable

00:50:39.980 culture

00:50:40.520 particularly

00:50:42.000 reflected

00:50:42.680 I would say

00:50:43.200 in Montreal

00:50:43.680 although Quebec City

00:50:44.620 is also quite a remarkable

00:50:45.760 place

00:50:46.260 and I don't know

00:50:47.400 rural Quebec as well

00:50:48.400 that it's the principle

00:50:50.620 of local autonomy

00:50:51.880 that in some sense

00:50:52.980 has made that possible

00:50:54.560 and that actually

00:50:55.360 what's trying

00:50:56.420 to be protected

00:50:57.340 in some real sense

00:50:59.300 is that local autonomy

00:51:01.860 which would be

00:51:02.460 the special flavor

00:51:03.500 of well the small

00:51:05.000 business community

00:51:05.820 in Quebec

00:51:06.220 and the services

00:51:07.280 that it manages

00:51:08.040 and the street life

00:51:09.100 and the festivals

00:51:09.820 and the food culture

00:51:12.120 and the joie de vivre

00:51:13.640 which is definitely

00:51:14.540 present in Montreal

00:51:15.520 and the safety

00:51:16.660 of the streets

00:51:17.460 there's a lot of value

00:51:18.560 in that local culture

00:51:19.580 and what Quebec

00:51:20.880 Quebecois

00:51:21.660 presumed for the longest time

00:51:23.580 and maybe with some

00:51:24.720 justification

00:51:25.220 was that it was

00:51:26.040 necessary to centralize

00:51:27.540 under a powerful

00:51:28.780 provincial government

00:51:29.760 and a nationalist movement

00:51:31.000 to ensure autonomy

00:51:33.700 on the cultural side

00:51:35.360 but you could make

00:51:36.620 a strong case

00:51:37.360 I think

00:51:37.760 and this is the case

00:51:38.800 that you're outlining

00:51:39.580 that no

00:51:40.960 the long-term survival

00:51:43.180 of the uniqueness

00:51:44.940 of local

00:51:46.080 Francophone culture

00:51:47.740 is actually dependent

00:51:49.040 on the delivery

00:51:50.000 of maximal autonomy

00:51:51.340 to the citizenry

00:51:52.960 and the subsidiary institutions

00:51:54.720 and that would mean

00:51:55.980 that you could

00:51:56.520 as a conservative

00:51:57.500 you could make

00:51:58.100 a simultaneous call

00:51:59.280 to the nationalism

00:52:00.220 that's part of

00:52:01.080 the Quebec ethos

00:52:02.460 and this desire

00:52:03.820 for individual autonomy

00:52:05.040 that's emerging

00:52:05.860 in the aftermath

00:52:06.580 of let's say

00:52:07.740 the overreach

00:52:08.340 of the nanny state

00:52:09.300 that's a nice vision

00:52:10.740 it gives everyone

00:52:12.100 a place

00:52:12.680 and also a role

00:52:14.060 in living their life

00:52:16.320 and preserving

00:52:17.120 their cultural institutions

00:52:18.400 responsibly

00:52:19.360 at the same time

00:52:21.680 I don't believe

00:52:24.060 that the state

00:52:24.800 can impose

00:52:25.840 a language

00:52:26.520 or a way of life

00:52:27.680 it's each of us

00:52:29.220 who have to make

00:52:29.880 those decisions

00:52:30.640 and you know

00:52:32.140 if young

00:52:33.260 the young generation

00:52:34.300 let's say

00:52:34.760 like now

00:52:35.140 they don't want

00:52:35.600 to talk about separation

00:52:36.740 so even if you

00:52:38.080 wanted to push

00:52:38.840 it's not because

00:52:39.520 the Parti Québécois

00:52:40.280 is going to deliver

00:52:40.920 20 speeches a day

00:52:42.120 that everybody

00:52:43.100 is going to become

00:52:43.680 separatist

00:52:44.220 and it's going to

00:52:44.720 happen overnight

00:52:45.360 you can't do

00:52:47.760 those projects

00:52:48.580 if you have

00:52:49.560 that project

00:52:50.160 if you have

00:52:50.600 the youth

00:52:50.980 against you

00:52:51.500 against yourself

00:52:52.360 and you know

00:52:53.880 we have to make sure

00:52:55.240 that we bring it back

00:52:56.480 at an individual level

00:52:57.720 to make sure

00:52:58.640 that you know

00:52:59.320 we're promoting

00:53:00.540 the fact

00:53:01.160 that you should

00:53:02.640 speak French

00:53:03.320 you should be bilingual

00:53:04.240 and it's working

00:53:05.220 actually at many levels

00:53:08.140 Quebecers 0.66

00:53:09.080 Francophones

00:53:09.880 and Anglophones

00:53:10.740 have never been

00:53:11.480 as bilingual

00:53:12.200 as they are today

00:53:13.300 and you know

00:53:14.820 that's a richness

00:53:16.000 I mean

00:53:16.540 we're the most bilingual

00:53:17.760 I'm currently in Montreal

00:53:19.060 in the most bilingual

00:53:20.000 city in America

00:53:20.920 and I think

00:53:22.580 it should be a richness

00:53:23.400 but unfortunately

00:53:24.180 over the last decade

00:53:25.620 or half a century

00:53:26.460 it's been considered

00:53:27.840 a source of division

00:53:29.220 and fights

00:53:29.960 and that needs to change

00:53:32.720 we need to

00:53:33.680 and even if you say

00:53:35.300 I'm bilingual

00:53:36.020 it doesn't mean

00:53:36.700 that Quebec is bilingual

00:53:38.120 or the common language

00:53:39.160 or both languages

00:53:40.400 are equal

00:53:41.000 on the territory

00:53:41.980 of course

00:53:42.540 because we're

00:53:43.480 a small minority

00:53:44.960 we need to make sure

00:53:45.920 that the common language

00:53:46.920 remains French

00:53:47.860 but it doesn't mean

00:53:49.460 that at an individual

00:53:50.500 level

00:53:51.100 we cannot all be bilingual

00:53:52.420 and every parent

00:53:53.720 I know in Quebec

00:53:54.740 they all want their kids

00:53:55.960 to be bilingual

00:53:56.640 you know

00:53:56.920 my parents don't speak English

00:53:58.280 and my mom

00:54:00.380 was a school bus driver

00:54:01.860 and my father

00:54:02.960 was a sheet metal worker

00:54:05.440 hard working parents

00:54:07.560 perfect parents

00:54:08.560 but they didn't have

00:54:09.980 the opportunity

00:54:10.440 to learn English

00:54:11.360 and they sent me

00:54:12.240 to a kindergarten

00:54:13.180 in English

00:54:13.800 and they did

00:54:14.340 huge sacrifice

00:54:15.100 to make sure

00:54:16.660 that I was

00:54:18.100 I had better tools

00:54:19.380 in my toolbox

00:54:20.420 than they did

00:54:21.340 and I think

00:54:22.580 every single parent

00:54:23.600 wants that

00:54:24.360 and it was not

00:54:25.320 the state

00:54:25.820 that imposed that

00:54:26.620 to them

00:54:27.040 they made a decision

00:54:28.200 as good parents

00:54:29.440 like all good parents

00:54:30.980 do everywhere

00:54:31.720 and you want your kid

00:54:33.640 to do better

00:54:34.220 than yourself

00:54:34.980 and you should have

00:54:37.160 the freedom

00:54:37.700 and to do that

00:54:39.420 and the encouragement

00:54:40.380 and the space

00:54:41.620 to do that

00:54:42.280 because it is definitely

00:54:43.120 well you see

00:54:43.620 this is happening

00:54:44.240 in the US too

00:54:45.080 is that as the nanny state

00:54:47.680 and the radical leftist

00:54:49.760 incursion

00:54:50.580 into federal

00:54:52.100 and state institutions

00:54:54.680 proceeds apace

00:54:55.940 where that's hit

00:54:58.120 the most resistance

00:54:59.040 is on the issue

00:55:01.300 of parent rights

00:55:02.380 and people are pulling

00:55:03.960 their children

00:55:04.740 in the US

00:55:05.440 out of the public education system

00:55:08.280 at a remarkable rate

00:55:09.520 because people will accept

00:55:12.260 without protest

00:55:13.520 a fair bit of interference

00:55:15.140 with their lives

00:55:16.320 on behalf of a

00:55:17.500 hypothetically benevolent

00:55:18.840 but ultimately 0.91

00:55:19.980 totalitarian state

00:55:21.500 but they will not

00:55:23.020 accept

00:55:23.780 the

00:55:24.760 propaganda

00:55:27.340 campaigns

00:55:28.940 directed at their children

00:55:30.140 and so

00:55:30.820 the reason I'm saying that

00:55:32.040 isn't for a political reason

00:55:33.100 exactly

00:55:33.560 it's to point out

00:55:34.440 the logic of the principle

00:55:35.820 of subsidiarity

00:55:36.840 because

00:55:37.200 you should have parents

00:55:39.320 making decisions

00:55:40.500 for their children

00:55:41.400 precisely because

00:55:42.880 there's no one

00:55:44.220 who is going to care

00:55:45.200 for children

00:55:45.860 more than parents

00:55:47.000 exactly

00:55:47.520 and if the state

00:55:48.360 says it will

00:55:49.520 it's delusional

00:55:51.100 because

00:55:51.800 well how in the world

00:55:52.980 can an abstract organization

00:55:54.660 distant from

00:55:56.820 the children it's serving

00:55:58.540 unrelated to them

00:55:59.740 and not knowing

00:56:01.400 them personally

00:56:02.180 possibly care for them

00:56:04.580 in all their individual

00:56:05.560 particularity

00:56:06.520 as well as

00:56:07.420 biologically related

00:56:08.820 kin

00:56:09.260 who are immediately

00:56:10.280 living with them

00:56:11.380 I mean it's a preposterous

00:56:13.180 assumption

00:56:13.600 on all fronts

00:56:14.640 and people will

00:56:15.620 definitely rebel

00:56:16.540 against that

00:56:17.160 when their children

00:56:17.800 are threatened

00:56:18.420 so

00:56:19.520 let me turn

00:56:21.160 to a different issue

00:56:22.540 I'm also interested

00:56:25.000 and I think

00:56:26.060 this might be interesting

00:56:26.880 to our international

00:56:28.080 viewers

00:56:29.260 and listeners

00:56:30.020 now

00:56:31.420 Quebec has a very

00:56:33.180 unique political culture

00:56:34.220 and so does

00:56:35.340 your

00:56:35.700 party

00:56:36.680 provincially

00:56:38.220 now

00:56:39.020 when is the election

00:56:42.240 going to be held

00:56:42.860 in Quebec

00:56:43.220 that's the first question

00:56:44.180 October 3rd

00:56:45.700 okay

00:56:46.020 October 3rd

00:56:46.680 so you're in the run-up

00:56:47.640 to an election

00:56:48.260 now at the same time

00:56:50.000 as some of those

00:56:51.700 listening know

00:56:52.360 Canada is involved

00:56:54.080 in a leadership

00:56:54.980 race

00:56:55.620 for the leadership

00:56:56.640 of the Conservative Party

00:56:58.040 federally in Canada

00:56:59.100 so to become

00:56:59.920 Prime Minister

00:57:00.480 in Canada

00:57:01.020 you have to first

00:57:02.360 rise to head

00:57:03.820 a political party

00:57:05.100 that has a chance

00:57:05.920 of being elected

00:57:07.140 in a majority

00:57:08.460 of seats

00:57:09.020 and then

00:57:09.840 if that does happen

00:57:11.040 and you're the leader

00:57:11.920 of the party

00:57:12.400 you become Prime Minister

00:57:13.360 and at the moment

00:57:14.140 there are five candidates

00:57:16.140 on the leadership

00:57:18.200 front

00:57:18.920 for the federal

00:57:21.120 Conservatives

00:57:21.820 and I've interviewed

00:57:22.800 three of them

00:57:23.520 Pierre Polyev

00:57:24.520 Roman Barber

00:57:26.220 and Leslie Lewis

00:57:27.100 and I was quite impressed

00:57:28.520 with all three of them

00:57:29.320 they're quite different

00:57:30.560 as people

00:57:31.360 they're very different

00:57:32.420 in their backgrounds

00:57:33.320 but it seemed to me

00:57:35.800 like the adults

00:57:36.800 were in the room

00:57:37.600 fundamentally

00:57:38.440 and they all

00:57:39.340 had a certain degree

00:57:40.620 of expertise

00:57:41.220 and a fair degree

00:57:42.200 of moral integrity

00:57:43.260 Jean Charest's people

00:57:45.800 decided that I

00:57:47.460 that they wouldn't

00:57:49.600 talk to me

00:57:50.140 for one reason

00:57:50.900 or another

00:57:51.280 although I invited

00:57:52.980 them several times

00:57:54.560 and I haven't

00:57:56.380 been as successful

00:57:58.660 in my pursuit

00:57:59.520 of Scott Aitchison's people

00:58:01.180 and that really

00:58:02.460 has nothing to do

00:58:03.220 with him

00:58:03.560 and perhaps

00:58:04.000 little to do

00:58:04.560 with me

00:58:04.960 it's just been

00:58:05.720 circumstances

00:58:06.560 unfortunately

00:58:07.220 how do you

00:58:08.780 construe the

00:58:09.520 relationship

00:58:10.060 between your

00:58:11.140 party

00:58:12.140 provincially

00:58:14.100 and the

00:58:15.760 Conservative Party

00:58:17.460 federally

00:58:18.320 and the other

00:58:18.880 Conservative parties

00:58:19.720 in Canada

00:58:20.340 so let's start

00:58:21.340 with that

00:58:21.840 how do you think

00:58:22.700 that balance

00:58:23.380 should be

00:58:24.100 established

00:58:24.840 and what are you

00:58:25.640 hoping for

00:58:26.440 on the federal

00:58:27.540 Conservative front

00:58:28.600 in relationship

00:58:29.680 to your aspirations

00:58:30.660 on the provincial

00:58:31.760 Conservative front

00:58:33.220 well first off

00:58:34.640 you have to know

00:58:35.240 that we have

00:58:35.760 no organic links

00:58:36.800 like unlike

00:58:37.600 some other provinces

00:58:39.420 there's no link

00:58:40.440 we were two

00:58:41.560 completely separate

00:58:42.780 entities

00:58:43.260 of course we have

00:58:44.060 the exact same name

00:58:45.220 we're both

00:58:46.400 Conservatives

00:58:47.020 and we are

00:58:47.840 centre-right

00:58:48.940 we're you know

00:58:49.500 we were defined

00:58:50.420 on the same

00:58:51.020 on the political

00:58:51.560 spectrum

00:58:51.980 we're not far away

00:58:52.900 from each other

00:58:53.580 but there's no

00:58:54.900 direct links

00:58:55.700 that being said

00:58:56.600 for me the most

00:58:58.080 important part

00:58:59.020 as a Conservative

00:59:01.320 within Canada

00:59:02.560 is to build bridges

00:59:04.420 with other Conservative

00:59:05.740 parties provincially

00:59:06.980 first and foremost

00:59:08.460 because I'm a

00:59:09.100 Decentralist

00:59:09.720 I'm an Autonomist

00:59:10.620 and I do believe

00:59:11.880 that it's important

00:59:12.640 to reach out

00:59:13.660 to those people

00:59:14.320 I think we have

00:59:14.980 strong allies

00:59:15.740 that Quebec

00:59:16.500 has never exploited

00:59:17.380 because you know

00:59:18.300 when you're in

00:59:18.700 a separatist dynamic

00:59:19.840 where you have a party

00:59:21.040 that is a very

00:59:21.760 very Federalist party

00:59:22.940 like the Liberals

00:59:23.680 in Quebec have been

00:59:24.600 over the last few decades

00:59:26.140 and on the other hand

00:59:27.180 you have the Separatists 1.00

00:59:28.200 well the Separatists 1.00

00:59:29.160 don't want to work

00:59:30.000 with anyone in Canada

00:59:30.940 even those who would

00:59:31.880 like a little bit

00:59:32.520 of decentralization

00:59:33.420 to make sure

00:59:34.020 that they don't show

00:59:35.300 that Canada could work

00:59:36.420 you know

00:59:36.740 and on the other hand

00:59:39.300 the Federalists

00:59:40.420 you know

00:59:41.320 they want to be perceived

00:59:42.600 as pro-Canada

00:59:43.540 as much as they can

00:59:44.520 so the more centralists

00:59:45.800 they become

00:59:46.340 the better

00:59:46.840 so there was no room

00:59:49.440 for someone

00:59:50.380 who was trying

00:59:51.080 to build bridges

00:59:51.920 with provincial parties

00:59:53.280 to decentralize Canada

00:59:54.540 when we have

00:59:55.220 common goals

00:59:56.560 and that's

00:59:57.980 that's for me

00:59:58.720 where I want to go

00:59:59.660 politically speaking

01:00:00.680 who do you

01:00:01.340 who do you see as

01:00:02.540 okay so let's start

01:00:03.440 on the provincial front

01:00:04.340 so again

01:00:05.480 for the international

01:00:06.380 viewers

01:00:07.100 every Canada

01:00:08.780 is made up

01:00:09.300 of an assembly

01:00:09.940 of provinces

01:00:10.660 and

01:00:11.580 the political structure

01:00:13.880 at the federal level

01:00:14.780 tends to be

01:00:15.560 somewhat mirrored

01:00:16.740 at the provincial level

01:00:18.260 so there are

01:00:18.880 federal

01:00:19.420 conservative

01:00:20.040 liberal

01:00:20.500 and socialist parties

01:00:21.680 and there are

01:00:22.500 provincial

01:00:22.940 conservative

01:00:24.320 liberal

01:00:24.920 and socialist parties

01:00:26.160 and they're

01:00:27.080 either tightly

01:00:28.080 or loosely affiliated

01:00:29.120 in the manner

01:00:29.680 that Mr. Dwayne

01:00:31.480 just mentioned

01:00:32.720 you're interested

01:00:34.140 in coalition building

01:00:35.840 at the provincial level

01:00:37.400 on the conservative side

01:00:39.840 or with other

01:00:40.420 perhaps interested

01:00:41.900 welcoming partners

01:00:42.960 who do you see

01:00:44.400 across the political landscape

01:00:46.340 at the provincial level

01:00:47.700 in Canada

01:00:48.720 that you

01:00:50.000 would regard

01:00:51.040 as

01:00:51.580 reasonable

01:00:53.040 and probable allies

01:00:54.740 with whom

01:00:55.420 you could build

01:00:56.200 a tighter

01:00:57.560 confederation

01:00:58.940 I don't think

01:00:59.800 it's necessarily

01:01:00.440 just personalities

01:01:01.540 or it's also

01:01:03.120 provinces

01:01:04.160 because as we said

01:01:05.720 earlier on

01:01:06.340 you know

01:01:06.620 your home province

01:01:07.940 where you were born

01:01:09.540 in Alberta

01:01:10.140 it's always been

01:01:12.160 the province

01:01:13.380 that has been asking

01:01:14.280 for more power

01:01:15.220 from Ottawa

01:01:16.140 outside of Quebec

01:01:17.460 so they're natural

01:01:19.160 allies on that front

01:01:20.500 and it was true

01:01:21.340 even when René Lévesque

01:01:22.360 was there

01:01:22.740 an old

01:01:23.340 Quebec separatist premier

01:01:25.080 his best ally

01:01:26.400 was Peter Lougheed

01:01:27.480 at the time

01:01:28.040 the Alberta premier

01:01:29.640 of the time

01:01:30.760 and it's always

01:01:32.760 you know

01:01:33.240 when you look at it

01:01:34.740 objectively

01:01:35.360 Alberta

01:01:36.260 is probably

01:01:37.740 the strongest ally

01:01:38.760 of Quebec

01:01:39.300 in terms of

01:01:40.440 decentralization

01:01:41.380 and I've

01:01:42.540 you know

01:01:43.200 I'm a good friend

01:01:43.780 of Jason Kenney

01:01:44.520 the current premier

01:01:45.500 Daniel Smith

01:01:47.200 who's running

01:01:47.700 for his leaders

01:01:48.440 for the leadership

01:01:49.080 of the party

01:01:49.540 is also a close friend

01:01:50.640 I've always had

01:01:51.860 a lot of friends

01:01:52.560 in Alberta

01:01:53.060 among conservatives

01:01:54.260 and I think

01:01:55.900 that the first

01:01:56.680 province

01:01:57.660 that is normally

01:01:58.900 and historically

01:01:59.660 an ally

01:02:00.900 should be Alberta

01:02:02.000 well it would be

01:02:02.860 lovely to see that

01:02:03.960 as speaking

01:02:05.040 as an Albertan

01:02:05.900 and maybe I can

01:02:06.780 do a little

01:02:07.560 sideways move here

01:02:08.780 Canada

01:02:09.700 is in a quandary

01:02:11.920 like the rest

01:02:13.480 of the world

01:02:14.200 on the energy

01:02:15.700 and environment

01:02:16.400 front

01:02:16.920 and Quebec

01:02:18.300 and Alberta

01:02:18.860 have been

01:02:19.500 at serious odds

01:02:20.880 on that issue

01:02:21.620 for the last decade

01:02:22.800 as well as Alberta

01:02:23.900 and the federal government

01:02:24.940 and the chickens

01:02:26.820 in many ways

01:02:27.700 are coming home

01:02:28.340 to roost

01:02:28.880 I mean

01:02:29.280 the German

01:02:30.280 chancellor

01:02:31.000 came to Canada

01:02:31.960 a few weeks ago

01:02:33.300 cap in hand

01:02:34.580 and asked his

01:02:35.980 old ally

01:02:36.900 the Canadians

01:02:37.860 for help

01:02:39.000 with liquid

01:02:40.060 natural gas

01:02:40.820 provision

01:02:41.320 for example

01:02:42.040 to help reduce

01:02:43.560 this catastrophic

01:02:45.000 German dependence

01:02:46.040 on Russian

01:02:47.460 fossil fuel exports

01:02:49.120 and Trudeau

01:02:50.120 basically sent him

01:02:51.260 away

01:02:51.600 empty-handed

01:02:52.860 stating

01:02:53.700 in a manner

01:02:54.840 so utterly

01:02:55.700 preposterous

01:02:56.520 that it's a form 1.00

01:02:57.280 of idiot miracle 1.00

01:02:58.700 that no business 1.00

01:03:00.140 case could be made

01:03:01.300 for Canada

01:03:01.960 to export

01:03:03.160 liquid natural gas

01:03:04.800 to Europe

01:03:06.780 to Germany

01:03:07.600 in particular

01:03:08.080 and that's so

01:03:09.160 utterly preposterous

01:03:10.360 because we have

01:03:11.080 so much natural gas

01:03:12.380 and we have

01:03:12.840 the facilities

01:03:13.500 to liquefy it

01:03:14.480 and the only reason

01:03:15.780 a business case

01:03:16.520 can't be made

01:03:17.460 is because

01:03:18.220 the federal liberals

01:03:19.080 have made it

01:03:19.700 economically impossible

01:03:21.120 for any actors

01:03:22.540 to build the pipelines

01:03:24.660 for example

01:03:25.360 build the infrastructure

01:03:26.440 and make this energy

01:03:27.840 accessible

01:03:28.420 and so

01:03:28.920 if you were

01:03:29.860 leader of the

01:03:31.000 provincial government

01:03:32.960 in Quebec

01:03:33.460 what do you think

01:03:35.480 you could do

01:03:36.080 what would you be

01:03:36.820 inclined to do

01:03:37.620 let's say

01:03:38.460 with Alberta

01:03:39.160 and the rest

01:03:40.320 of Canada

01:03:40.840 to rectify that

01:03:43.060 well the first thing

01:03:44.160 regarding oil

01:03:45.480 and gas

01:03:46.080 a few days ago

01:03:48.260 I was in the

01:03:49.080 Saguenay region

01:03:50.060 northeast of Quebec

01:03:52.520 to say that

01:03:53.960 I'm the only

01:03:54.920 political leader

01:03:55.720 right now

01:03:56.320 who's in favour

01:03:57.320 of the LNG

01:03:58.400 Quebec project

01:03:59.600 which is natural

01:04:00.500 liquefied gas

01:04:01.560 project

01:04:04.160 a 14 billion

01:04:05.460 dollars investment

01:04:06.720 our Quebec government

01:04:08.360 initially

01:04:08.900 was in favour

01:04:09.740 of it

01:04:10.160 Mr. Legault

01:04:11.200 the current premier

01:04:12.040 even met

01:04:12.940 with the Alberta

01:04:14.320 premier

01:04:14.740 and he was all

01:04:15.400 in favour of it

01:04:16.160 and then a few

01:04:16.980 environmentalists

01:04:17.940 stood up in Montreal

01:04:19.040 and Mr. Legault

01:04:19.820 flip-flopped

01:04:20.580 and decided

01:04:21.400 that now

01:04:21.960 he did even worse

01:04:23.180 than that

01:04:23.580 he did adopt

01:04:24.420 a bill

01:04:24.760 three months ago

01:04:25.580 to say that

01:04:26.480 in Quebec

01:04:26.900 it's forbidden

01:04:27.680 to explore

01:04:28.520 and exploit

01:04:29.280 any kind

01:04:30.140 of oil

01:04:30.520 and gas

01:04:31.060 he went

01:04:32.060 to the other

01:04:32.460 extreme

01:04:32.880 he denied

01:04:34.180 the rights

01:04:35.380 of the companies

01:04:36.180 who already

01:04:36.720 had rights

01:04:37.320 given by the

01:04:37.940 Quebec government

01:04:38.540 and now

01:04:39.300 we're sued

01:04:39.980 we're sued

01:04:41.420 I mean

01:04:41.680 the Quebec government

01:04:42.560 is sued

01:04:43.180 for billions

01:04:44.700 I think it's

01:04:45.440 18 billion dollars

01:04:46.640 because we

01:04:48.220 were denying

01:04:49.000 rights

01:04:49.800 of companies

01:04:50.680 that were given

01:04:51.320 by the government

01:04:52.080 so it's

01:04:53.200 a real mess

01:04:54.080 so he scuttled

01:04:55.560 a 14 billion dollar

01:04:56.860 project

01:04:57.340 and then

01:04:58.340 accrued

01:05:00.200 18 billion dollars

01:05:01.360 in potential

01:05:02.200 legal liability

01:05:03.820 to not

01:05:05.120 produce

01:05:05.820 fossil fuel

01:05:06.860 to look good

01:05:09.560 in front of

01:05:10.040 the environmentalist

01:05:10.940 let's put it

01:05:11.400 that way

01:05:11.740 I'm going to push

01:05:12.920 you on that

01:05:13.380 because

01:05:13.620 it needs

01:05:15.180 to be done

01:05:15.660 so I'm going

01:05:17.160 to be environmentalist

01:05:18.200 here and I'm going

01:05:18.860 to say

01:05:19.220 we need to

01:05:20.720 transfer away

01:05:23.900 from these

01:05:24.700 despicable

01:05:25.900 fossil fuels

01:05:26.620 as rapidly

01:05:27.180 as possible

01:05:27.860 there's going

01:05:28.640 to be a

01:05:28.960 substantial amount

01:05:29.840 of economic

01:05:30.420 disruption

01:05:30.960 as a consequence

01:05:31.700 people are going

01:05:32.500 to have to

01:05:32.960 bear

01:05:33.240 more costs

01:05:34.480 on the energy

01:05:35.080 front

01:05:35.480 but that's

01:05:36.380 okay

01:05:36.700 because they

01:05:37.480 should be

01:05:37.800 burning less

01:05:38.460 fossil fuel

01:05:39.160 anyways

01:05:39.700 because of

01:05:40.400 the liability

01:05:41.560 accrued

01:05:42.040 by the planet

01:05:42.760 these are

01:05:43.660 necessary

01:05:44.340 disruptions

01:05:45.200 as we move

01:05:45.800 toward a

01:05:46.300 sustainable

01:05:46.720 economy

01:05:47.300 and

01:05:48.220 if

01:05:49.300 a few

01:05:49.960 eggs

01:05:50.320 have to

01:05:50.700 be broken

01:05:51.140 to make

01:05:51.520 an omelette

01:05:52.020 then c'est la vie

01:05:53.160 and so

01:05:54.240 what do you

01:05:55.240 think about

01:05:55.720 that line

01:05:56.420 of argumentation

01:05:57.240 how do you

01:05:57.820 respond to it

01:05:59.140 how do you

01:05:59.720 counter it

01:06:00.400 do you

01:06:00.900 accept it

01:06:01.620 there's a few

01:06:02.920 things we need

01:06:03.480 to say

01:06:03.820 first off

01:06:04.520 our dependence

01:06:05.740 on gas

01:06:07.620 and oil

01:06:08.140 is not going

01:06:08.860 to stop

01:06:09.280 tomorrow

01:06:09.780 the transition

01:06:10.800 is going

01:06:11.280 to take

01:06:11.600 a few

01:06:11.920 decades

01:06:12.400 actually

01:06:13.080 we're even

01:06:13.780 estimating

01:06:14.360 right now

01:06:14.860 that for gas

01:06:15.680 let's say

01:06:16.200 for the next

01:06:17.000 50 years

01:06:17.820 there's going

01:06:18.220 to be a

01:06:18.580 growth

01:06:19.020 in terms

01:06:19.880 of demand

01:06:20.420 so you

01:06:21.220 know

01:06:21.380 yes we're

01:06:21.880 going to

01:06:22.060 get out

01:06:22.380 of it

01:06:22.640 but it's

01:06:22.960 not going

01:06:23.220 to happen

01:06:23.540 overnight

01:06:23.920 it could

01:06:24.440 happen

01:06:24.740 in five

01:06:25.140 six

01:06:25.460 seven

01:06:25.860 eight

01:06:26.180 decades

01:06:26.720 okay so

01:06:27.660 I say

01:06:28.240 well that's

01:06:28.720 that's too

01:06:29.280 that's too

01:06:29.840 long

01:06:30.180 we're going

01:06:31.260 to be

01:06:31.520 roasting

01:06:31.940 in our

01:06:32.480 in our

01:06:33.200 oven-like

01:06:34.220 homes

01:06:34.700 in ten

01:06:35.680 years

01:06:36.060 we have

01:06:36.900 to act

01:06:38.020 more

01:06:38.300 precipitously

01:06:39.040 and if it

01:06:39.580 requires

01:06:40.100 force and

01:06:40.880 fear

01:06:41.220 so be it

01:06:42.020 so what

01:06:43.020 why is that

01:06:43.720 a problematic

01:06:44.260 argument

01:06:44.860 if it is

01:06:45.560 it is a

01:06:46.060 you

01:06:46.260 it does

01:06:47.040 it doesn't

01:06:47.620 make sense

01:06:48.040 in my book

01:06:48.580 because

01:06:48.960 what are you

01:06:49.740 going to do

01:06:50.320 in the

01:06:50.760 main time

01:06:51.180 like tomorrow

01:06:52.020 morning

01:06:52.380 we're 100%

01:06:53.400 dependent

01:06:53.920 right now

01:06:54.480 in quebec

01:06:54.960 of oil

01:06:55.800 and gas

01:06:56.300 coming from

01:06:56.800 outside

01:06:57.300 okay from

01:06:57.900 and so

01:06:59.360 if you know

01:07:00.460 and we saw

01:07:00.960 what's happening

01:07:01.820 in western

01:07:02.600 europe right

01:07:03.260 now because

01:07:03.700 they were

01:07:04.020 dependent

01:07:04.460 of gas

01:07:05.600 coming from

01:07:06.160 russia

01:07:06.520 and we see

01:07:07.480 how it's

01:07:08.180 a huge

01:07:08.820 problem

01:07:09.300 not to be

01:07:10.340 autonomous

01:07:11.140 in terms

01:07:12.080 of energy

01:07:12.620 so

01:07:13.360 are you

01:07:14.720 proposing

01:07:15.160 and the

01:07:15.600 parties are

01:07:16.100 always good

01:07:16.660 currently in

01:07:17.260 quebec 0.58

01:07:17.520 all the

01:07:17.940 parties

01:07:18.260 all the

01:07:18.580 other

01:07:18.740 political

01:07:19.040 parties

01:07:19.420 they have

01:07:20.040 goals

01:07:20.420 you know

01:07:20.680 and they're

01:07:21.220 promising

01:07:21.700 that they're

01:07:22.200 going to

01:07:22.520 cut our

01:07:23.100 gas emission

01:07:24.320 by 37.5%

01:07:27.120 45%

01:07:28.660 55%

01:07:29.920 it's like

01:07:30.420 you know

01:07:31.000 it's like

01:07:31.340 an auction

01:07:32.040 to know

01:07:32.480 which one

01:07:32.940 is going

01:07:33.420 to have

01:07:33.700 the highest

01:07:34.100 percentage

01:07:34.620 of cutting

01:07:35.580 gas emission

01:07:37.040 but when you

01:07:37.980 look at it

01:07:38.620 no one's

01:07:39.360 ready to tell

01:07:40.060 you how

01:07:40.580 they're going

01:07:40.940 to do that

01:07:41.380 how many

01:07:41.860 factories

01:07:42.340 are they

01:07:42.700 going to

01:07:42.940 shut down

01:07:43.440 how many

01:07:44.140 million people

01:07:44.860 are going

01:07:45.180 to say

01:07:45.460 they can't

01:07:45.980 drive their

01:07:46.420 cars anymore

01:07:47.200 how many

01:07:47.960 you know

01:07:48.720 skidoos 1.00

01:07:49.400 and yachts

01:07:50.320 and every

01:07:50.660 how are they

01:07:51.640 going to do

01:07:52.100 that

01:07:52.320 they never

01:07:52.920 ever say

01:07:53.600 it

01:07:53.780 and every

01:07:54.660 single time

01:07:55.300 those politicians

01:07:56.220 promise that

01:07:56.980 they're always

01:07:57.800 lying

01:07:58.220 they never

01:07:59.040 ever achieve

01:07:59.840 their goal

01:08:00.400 it's always

01:08:01.140 easy to

01:08:01.820 look good

01:08:02.420 and that's

01:08:03.160 the problem

01:08:03.560 with the left

01:08:04.120 often

01:08:04.500 they want

01:08:05.140 to show

01:08:05.600 off

01:08:05.920 well we

01:08:06.360 could also

01:08:06.860 point out

01:08:07.580 we could also

01:08:09.240 point out

01:08:09.840 that the

01:08:10.580 Americans

01:08:10.980 turned radically

01:08:12.160 to natural

01:08:13.320 gas fracking

01:08:14.160 after the

01:08:14.780 year 2000

01:08:15.480 and let's

01:08:16.680 just outline

01:08:17.580 the consequences

01:08:18.360 of that

01:08:18.800 so the

01:08:19.340 first bloody

01:08:19.960 consequence

01:08:20.460 was that

01:08:21.100 they cut

01:08:21.620 their carbon

01:08:22.140 dioxide output

01:08:23.000 by 15%

01:08:24.080 and so

01:08:25.860 and that was

01:08:26.600 not something

01:08:27.300 that any

01:08:27.700 environmentalists

01:08:28.520 predicted

01:08:28.920 and certainly

01:08:29.520 would have

01:08:29.840 opposed

01:08:30.240 but it

01:08:31.120 turned out

01:08:31.500 to be the

01:08:31.860 case that

01:08:32.360 while the

01:08:33.180 Americans

01:08:33.600 essentially

01:08:34.140 made themselves

01:08:34.860 not only

01:08:35.440 energy

01:08:36.160 self-sufficient

01:08:37.680 but capable

01:08:38.640 of then becoming

01:08:39.860 one of the

01:08:40.260 world's biggest

01:08:40.840 potential exporters

01:08:42.160 of fossil fuel

01:08:42.920 products

01:08:43.420 they did it

01:08:44.480 in a manner

01:08:44.980 that simultaneously

01:08:46.020 reduced the

01:08:46.940 carbon load

01:08:47.480 and so I

01:08:48.960 look at

01:08:49.380 policies like 0.98

01:08:50.340 Trudeau's

01:08:50.780 policy and I

01:08:51.420 think okay

01:08:52.340 so what the 0.67

01:08:52.820 hell is the

01:08:53.180 goal here

01:08:53.660 exactly

01:08:54.140 you're going

01:08:54.880 to demonize

01:08:55.880 liquid natural

01:08:57.000 gas in

01:08:57.540 particular which

01:08:58.080 is an

01:08:58.320 exceptionally

01:08:58.800 clean fuel

01:08:59.660 which is

01:09:00.080 extremely

01:09:00.520 abundant

01:09:00.960 and which

01:09:01.400 is also

01:09:01.840 extremely

01:09:02.900 inexpensive

01:09:03.620 which you

01:09:04.820 think would

01:09:05.400 appeal to

01:09:05.960 the lefties

01:09:06.760 because

01:09:07.280 hypothetically

01:09:08.140 they're

01:09:08.480 compared about

01:09:09.100 the poor

01:09:09.580 and instead

01:09:10.440 of noticing

01:09:11.120 that and

01:09:12.260 touting

01:09:12.820 liquid natural

01:09:14.020 gas as a

01:09:14.640 replacement for

01:09:15.360 coal and

01:09:16.320 for a

01:09:17.420 wood which

01:09:18.120 of course the

01:09:18.740 Germans are 1.00

01:09:19.300 madly gathering

01:09:20.300 at the moment

01:09:20.940 to the point

01:09:21.700 of driving

01:09:22.500 firewood into

01:09:23.260 shortage

01:09:23.760 instead of

01:09:25.500 pointing out

01:09:25.900 that that's

01:09:26.280 a legitimate

01:09:27.080 clean and

01:09:28.320 accessible

01:09:28.940 alternative

01:09:30.140 that's also

01:09:31.000 cheap compared

01:09:32.140 to say coal

01:09:33.360 in China or

01:09:34.300 coal in Europe

01:09:34.940 for that matter

01:09:35.580 the notion

01:09:36.960 seems to be

01:09:37.600 no we have

01:09:38.820 to do something

01:09:39.400 that we can't

01:09:40.200 do in an

01:09:40.920 impossible manner

01:09:41.800 and create

01:09:42.500 panic and

01:09:43.080 economic havoc

01:09:44.200 while doing

01:09:45.160 it to

01:09:45.940 pretend to

01:09:47.280 do something

01:09:48.040 on the

01:09:48.320 environmental

01:09:48.700 front that

01:09:49.520 absolutely will

01:09:50.540 not happen

01:09:51.380 at all

01:09:52.160 it's even

01:09:52.860 worse than

01:09:53.280 that you

01:09:54.000 talked about

01:09:54.880 the German

01:09:55.380 delegation that

01:09:56.240 came in

01:09:56.700 Canada a few

01:09:57.340 days ago

01:09:57.820 they even

01:09:58.140 came here

01:09:58.540 in Quebec

01:09:58.860 now you're

01:10:01.020 right to say

01:10:01.480 they're going

01:10:01.800 to have to

01:10:02.180 switch over

01:10:02.700 the winter

01:10:03.220 from natural

01:10:04.560 gas to

01:10:05.460 coal which

01:10:06.240 is much

01:10:06.760 worse it's

01:10:07.580 60% more

01:10:08.440 emissions and

01:10:09.020 everything like

01:10:09.460 if Canada

01:10:10.220 was exporting

01:10:11.020 our LNG

01:10:13.600 project with

01:10:14.460 gas we

01:10:15.980 would reduce

01:10:16.740 emissions so

01:10:17.460 we would do

01:10:17.960 much better

01:10:18.620 for the

01:10:18.920 environment and

01:10:19.560 on top of

01:10:20.160 creating very

01:10:21.020 good jobs in

01:10:21.840 our regions

01:10:22.320 here in

01:10:22.680 Canada but

01:10:23.460 it's worse

01:10:23.780 than that

01:10:24.200 we're probably

01:10:24.880 going to have

01:10:25.260 to export

01:10:25.900 coal because

01:10:27.120 they're also

01:10:27.640 going to run

01:10:28.100 out of coal

01:10:28.660 so that and

01:10:29.800 that's going

01:10:30.120 to be okay

01:10:30.620 according to

01:10:31.280 Mr. Trudeau

01:10:31.960 standards and

01:10:32.700 the left

01:10:33.080 standards and

01:10:33.780 the environmentalist

01:10:34.660 standards the

01:10:36.100 net you know

01:10:37.320 it's all to

01:10:38.000 look good but

01:10:39.140 when you look

01:10:40.220 at the data

01:10:40.840 when you look

01:10:41.360 at the results

01:10:42.120 it's terrible

01:10:43.140 what they're

01:10:43.600 proposing it's

01:10:44.320 even worse than

01:10:45.080 what they're

01:10:45.820 fighting against

01:10:47.120 well let's go

01:10:48.260 on that looking

01:10:49.000 good side so

01:10:49.840 one of the

01:10:50.260 things I found

01:10:51.080 out this was

01:10:52.000 also true of

01:10:52.680 the conservative

01:10:53.200 party in

01:10:53.880 Ontario and

01:10:57.540 I'm you know

01:10:58.440 relatively positively

01:10:59.660 predisposed to

01:11:00.620 the conservatives

01:11:01.200 in Ontario

01:11:01.860 especially given

01:11:02.660 the nature of

01:11:04.060 the alternative

01:11:04.620 during COVID

01:11:06.400 and I know

01:11:07.240 this because I

01:11:07.820 was told this

01:11:08.400 by senior

01:11:09.100 members of

01:11:10.820 the Ontario

01:11:11.920 government

01:11:13.200 as well as

01:11:15.240 discussing

01:11:17.160 recently with

01:11:18.620 journalist

01:11:19.120 Ruba Subramania

01:11:20.700 and a group

01:11:21.620 of people who

01:11:22.400 are suing the

01:11:23.620 Canadian government

01:11:24.320 the court

01:11:25.140 documents have

01:11:25.800 revealed for

01:11:26.820 example that

01:11:27.500 the travel ban

01:11:31.620 that Trudeau

01:11:32.320 implemented

01:11:33.020 had

01:11:34.400 hypothetically

01:11:36.520 to stop the

01:11:37.300 spread of COVID

01:11:37.860 had so little

01:11:39.900 scientific justification

01:11:41.400 despite being

01:11:42.260 touted as

01:11:42.920 scientifically

01:11:43.360 justifiable that

01:11:44.260 even though the

01:11:45.400 Trudeau cabinet

01:11:46.340 gave direct

01:11:47.700 orders to the

01:11:48.720 people working in

01:11:49.500 their health

01:11:49.980 departments to

01:11:51.280 formulate a

01:11:52.600 scientific rationale

01:11:53.660 to justify the

01:11:55.120 ban the people 0.99

01:11:57.060 so ordered

01:11:58.040 couldn't even

01:12:00.260 though that some

01:12:01.060 of them were

01:12:01.520 willing to

01:12:02.340 attempt to do

01:12:04.080 so.

01:12:04.800 So it lacked

01:12:06.180 such scientific

01:12:07.820 justification that

01:12:08.800 even under

01:12:09.380 duress the 0.62

01:12:10.540 people tasked

01:12:11.300 with generating

01:12:12.680 the rationale

01:12:13.200 post-hoc

01:12:13.760 couldn't do it

01:12:14.420 and that the

01:12:15.640 reason the

01:12:16.180 bloody travel

01:12:16.860 ban was

01:12:17.320 implemented to

01:12:17.980 begin with

01:12:18.440 which deprived

01:12:19.300 about 7 million

01:12:20.180 people of the

01:12:20.800 right to visit

01:12:22.200 their dying

01:12:22.900 relatives in

01:12:23.680 hospitals for

01:12:24.780 example the

01:12:26.880 actual rationale

01:12:29.140 was that the

01:12:30.580 liberal minority

01:12:31.800 government federally

01:12:32.960 headed by Trudeau

01:12:34.120 wanted to launch

01:12:35.840 a precipitous

01:12:36.520 election to put

01:12:37.700 themselves in the

01:12:38.340 majority position

01:12:39.200 and was looking

01:12:40.100 for a wedge issue

01:12:41.420 to divide Canadians

01:12:42.480 so that they

01:12:43.020 could ramp up

01:12:43.660 their grip on

01:12:44.300 power.

01:12:45.100 This has all

01:12:45.500 been revealed in

01:12:46.280 court documents.

01:12:47.360 It's utterly

01:12:48.540 preposterous and

01:12:51.040 so I'm pointing

01:12:53.500 that out as part

01:12:54.220 of a broader

01:12:54.700 trend this

01:12:55.580 trend of let's

01:12:56.360 say looking

01:12:57.700 good well why

01:12:58.800 are we implementing

01:12:59.820 a travel ban

01:13:00.680 well because we're

01:13:02.100 so concerned about

01:13:02.940 your health it's

01:13:03.920 like well no that's

01:13:04.840 not why you want

01:13:05.580 to look like you're 0.68

01:13:06.320 concerned about our

01:13:06.980 health but actually

01:13:07.640 you want to you

01:13:08.700 want to catalyze

01:13:10.080 your grip on power

01:13:11.140 in the most

01:13:11.640 manipulative way

01:13:12.500 possible but then

01:13:13.820 I also know let's

01:13:15.320 say on the

01:13:15.720 conservative side

01:13:16.520 when COVID

01:13:18.180 policies were being

01:13:19.120 formulated and they

01:13:20.180 were being touted as

01:13:21.300 driven by the

01:13:22.020 science all that

01:13:23.480 was happening

01:13:24.080 was that they

01:13:25.680 were generating

01:13:26.960 opinion polls that

01:13:28.360 were sampling

01:13:29.000 people's fear

01:13:30.020 noting what they

01:13:31.440 were most afraid

01:13:32.200 of reacting to

01:13:33.600 that fear with

01:13:34.400 draconian lockdowns

01:13:35.700 although not as bad

01:13:36.480 in Ontario as in

01:13:37.380 Quebec and then

01:13:38.440 post hoc justifying

01:13:39.900 that with a science

01:13:41.280 that didn't exist

01:13:42.440 and then demonizing

01:13:44.060 anyone who claimed

01:13:45.920 that the science did

01:13:47.500 not support that and

01:13:48.580 that the measures were

01:13:49.440 overreaching.

01:13:50.080 it was not just

01:13:51.060 federally by the way

01:13:52.020 here in Quebec we

01:13:52.840 went to even worse

01:13:53.740 than that with the

01:13:54.800 carefew there was

01:13:56.300 not one single

01:13:57.380 study showing that a

01:13:59.000 carefew is having an

01:14:00.580 impact to stop

01:14:01.820 COVID actually there's

01:14:03.420 even people who and

01:14:04.660 suggestions that it's

01:14:05.980 even worse because

01:14:06.740 you're concentrating more

01:14:07.880 people in a few

01:14:09.740 hours so you're there

01:14:11.240 it's spreading faster

01:14:12.520 the and when we were

01:14:14.380 asked when the premier

01:14:16.140 was asked for studies we

01:14:17.800 found out afterwards

01:14:18.780 that the public health

01:14:22.100 director was trying

01:14:23.800 sending notes to his

01:14:25.380 bureaucrats trying can

01:14:26.380 you find me a study

01:14:27.360 just before the press

01:14:28.640 conference they were

01:14:29.300 looking for and they

01:14:30.040 couldn't find one and

01:14:31.060 when they were asked

01:14:32.040 what scientific evidence

01:14:33.580 do you have that

01:14:34.420 carefews could stop the 0.99

01:14:36.040 spreading of COVID you

01:14:37.600 know what they came out

01:14:38.400 with a public opinion

01:14:39.740 poll that's the science

01:14:41.240 they had and they said

01:14:42.400 look this is what people

01:14:43.640 want so that's not

01:14:45.780 science I understand

01:14:46.580 there's a methodology

01:14:47.420 that is scientific but

01:14:48.600 that's about it it's

01:14:49.680 political science

01:14:50.620 that's what frightened

01:14:52.060 people want when you 1.00

01:14:53.300 ask them stupid 1.00

01:14:54.980 questions that they 1.00

01:14:56.480 answer impulsively when

01:14:58.380 they've been frightened

01:14:59.360 specifically and and

01:15:01.720 pointedly by their

01:15:02.960 governments in

01:15:03.880 collusion with the 1.00

01:15:05.720 idiot legacy media that 1.00

01:15:07.160 they're subsidizing so 1.00

01:15:08.800 it isn't even because

01:15:09.780 people will say well

01:15:10.640 that's what people

01:15:11.260 wanted and maybe you

01:15:12.200 should give it to

01:15:12.820 them it's like and

01:15:13.840 this is back to that

01:15:14.640 principle of

01:15:15.300 subsidiarity and

01:15:16.320 distributed political

01:15:17.240 responsibility you do

01:15:18.840 not randomly sample

01:15:20.520 impulsive public opinion

01:15:22.120 and derive your

01:15:23.360 doctrines of governance

01:15:24.380 so I would ask you how

01:15:25.720 would you protect

01:15:26.500 yourself if you were

01:15:27.640 the leader of the

01:15:29.360 conservative party in

01:15:30.520 Quebec and the

01:15:31.080 premier from from

01:15:32.140 falling into that

01:15:33.160 trap because I've seen

01:15:34.160 people all across the

01:15:35.160 political spectrum claim

01:15:37.120 allegiance to

01:15:38.040 principles but then

01:15:38.920 governed by opinion

01:15:40.280 poll two things I want

01:15:41.320 to say first I want to

01:15:42.200 go back to the oil and

01:15:43.100 gas exploitation because

01:15:44.660 it's another example of

01:15:45.880 also government

01:15:46.540 misusing public opinion

01:15:48.860 polls we've done public

01:15:50.940 opinion polls here as

01:15:52.020 well and what we see is

01:15:53.720 that when you ask people

01:15:54.780 do you want Quebec to

01:15:55.720 exploit oil and gas

01:15:56.900 people say no no no no

01:15:58.180 the majority says no

01:15:59.280 because you know they

01:16:00.260 they think we're going to

01:16:01.240 pollute and blah and

01:16:02.400 then when you say okay

01:16:03.200 there's a war currently in

01:16:04.580 Ukraine it's having this

01:16:05.940 impact on Germany do you

01:16:07.600 think we should have we

01:16:08.560 should send them our

01:16:10.060 liquefied gas yes or no

01:16:12.220 then you have a strong

01:16:13.340 majority that's saying

01:16:14.160 yes yes yes yes yes

01:16:15.180 yeah so so you have to

01:16:16.980 be very cautious with the

01:16:18.200 data of those polls you

01:16:19.460 can't govern by polls

01:16:20.740 because depending of how

01:16:22.460 you put the context in

01:16:24.000 you're going to have

01:16:24.440 different results you know

01:16:26.600 I'm not in politics to

01:16:28.140 follow polls I'm in

01:16:29.640 politics to lead polls and

01:16:31.880 I as opposed to our

01:16:33.600 government hey we we

01:16:34.700 never had a government

01:16:35.720 here in Quebec that has

01:16:36.720 been polling as much

01:16:37.720 people it's two three

01:16:39.120 polls per day on average

01:16:40.960 that they've done over

01:16:41.820 the last few years it's

01:16:43.460 crazy never they probably

01:16:45.020 pulled more in this

01:16:46.200 mandate than in Quebec's

01:16:47.880 history all together and

01:16:49.740 so me you know I I

01:16:52.040 decided to run for a

01:16:53.020 party that was at one

01:16:53.920 percent and had five

01:16:54.780 hundred members you know

01:16:56.640 I was not attracted by

01:16:57.840 the limousine or the

01:16:59.140 title or power what you

01:17:01.060 know what what drives me

01:17:02.620 is my ideas is my ideal is

01:17:05.240 my is what I'm looking for

01:17:06.480 my vision for Quebec for

01:17:07.740 the future and I think

01:17:09.280 that's a huge difference and

01:17:10.740 people know and and they

01:17:12.320 could say and I could

01:17:13.100 testify that I'm not there

01:17:14.640 I'm not an opportunist I'm

01:17:16.300 and what I'm telling them

01:17:17.640 I'm not telling them 50 1.00

01:17:18.680 things there I'm not going

01:17:19.540 to change Quebec all 0.98

01:17:20.440 together overnight but

01:17:22.660 there's four or five things

01:17:23.840 that I want to change you

01:17:25.580 know I'm going to put some

01:17:26.520 private in health care I'm

01:17:28.120 going to lower taxes for

01:17:29.340 people I'm going to exploit

01:17:30.960 and even export our oil and

01:17:33.480 gas in Quebec I will I will

01:17:35.640 give more freedom of choice

01:17:36.920 to parents and the education

01:17:38.200 of their kids and even for

01:17:39.380 kindergarten because here we

01:17:40.560 have a a a public daycare

01:17:42.960 that is becoming almost a

01:17:44.280 public monopoly that scares

01:17:45.500 me off I'm going to you

01:17:46.880 know so there there's a few

01:17:48.200 things like that that we're

01:17:49.340 going to focus on for the

01:17:50.900 first first four years and I

01:17:52.660 think that if we just

01:17:53.780 achieve that it's going to be

01:17:54.780 huge yeah even even if you

01:17:57.340 just achieved that on the

01:17:59.160 energy front I mean look at

01:18:00.280 the situation that Canada is

01:18:01.700 in is that we could be rich

01:18:04.620 you know we're we're about

01:18:05.960 35 percent behind the

01:18:07.640 Americans now in terms of

01:18:08.840 our level of wealth and the

01:18:11.120 the the the economic

01:18:13.760 foreseers I don't remember

01:18:15.940 which group but it was a

01:18:17.620 reputable group estimated

01:18:20.080 that of the G20 countries

01:18:22.500 Canada would have the lowest

01:18:23.520 economic growth for the last

01:18:25.100 for the next four decades by

01:18:27.860 which time we should be 50

01:18:29.720 percent or 75 percent behind

01:18:31.680 the Americans when instead

01:18:33.340 imagine what we have in

01:18:34.740 front of us Saskatchewan I

01:18:36.440 think has more uranium than

01:18:37.580 the rest of the world

01:18:38.300 combined if I remember that

01:18:39.840 correctly we have almost

01:18:42.200 inexhaustible oil and gas

01:18:43.580 reserves despite what people

01:18:44.840 think natural gas is

01:18:46.760 extremely clean compared to

01:18:48.000 the alternatives particularly

01:18:49.060 coal we could we can ramp up

01:18:51.740 our production of fossil fuels

01:18:52.980 in the clean and sustainable

01:18:54.840 and moral manner that ethical

01:18:57.940 Canadian businesses could offer

01:18:59.700 we could make ourselves rich

01:19:02.220 and make our lives abundant

01:19:04.620 for our children while doing

01:19:06.320 so we could provide that

01:19:08.500 energy to China so that they 0.97

01:19:10.060 could be less reliant on coal

01:19:11.380 and to Europe so that the 0.53

01:19:13.460 Europeans would have a

01:19:14.240 diversified energy supply at a

01:19:15.860 much lower cost and so we

01:19:17.160 could make poor people rich

01:19:18.700 around the world by doing so

01:19:20.640 we could increase geopolitical

01:19:24.620 stability massively by

01:19:26.620 differentiating our energy

01:19:28.780 supplies and the net consequence

01:19:31.740 for the environment by the

01:19:33.440 environmental standards would

01:19:34.920 be beneficial compared to the

01:19:36.380 alternative which is well

01:19:38.240 we'll destabilize things so

01:19:39.520 rapidly like we did in Sri

01:19:40.780 Lanka that we're going to

01:19:41.600 throw people into poverty and

01:19:43.280 blow the whole system of

01:19:45.060 international trade which is

01:19:46.560 bloody well what we're risking

01:19:47.780 right now in places like Europe

01:19:49.580 it'll be a miracle if the

01:19:51.040 European Union even survive 0.96

01:19:52.400 survives as far as I can tell

01:19:53.840 the next year because when the

01:19:55.900 energy crunch hits this winter

01:19:57.560 which is very likely to do

01:19:59.220 there's going to be absolute

01:20:00.620 hell to pay 70,000 people were

01:20:03.200 demonstrating yesterday in

01:20:04.320 Czechoslovakia so we're

01:20:07.380 playing with fire and it is this

01:20:08.920 bloody virtue signaling that

01:20:10.440 says well of course I care about

01:20:12.100 the environment and so it's time

01:20:13.900 to put the forcible clamps down

01:20:16.480 on the access that poor people

01:20:19.280 have to energy as if that's going

01:20:21.480 to do anything whatsoever except

01:20:23.020 make a bad situation worse on

01:20:25.080 every possible front and then

01:20:26.880 another sacred cow that we're 0.99

01:20:28.520 attacking and that's going to be

01:20:29.960 of interest for Canadians outside

01:20:32.020 of Quebec is is health care

01:20:34.220 because that's another thing that

01:20:35.840 the virtue signaling is very very

01:20:37.520 important you know we want

01:20:39.580 everybody to have universal access

01:20:41.660 free and the best in the world and

01:20:43.400 blah blah we know the the rest of

01:20:45.460 how they see it but the reality is

01:20:49.080 that our system is inefficient and

01:20:51.540 in Quebec one of the reasons why we

01:20:53.140 had to lock down our population more

01:20:54.980 than anywhere else in the continent

01:20:56.980 is because our health care system is

01:20:58.480 probably the most inefficient and we

01:21:00.880 need to fix that and obviously it's

01:21:02.760 not some small reform within a public

01:21:04.660 monopoly that is going to achieve

01:21:06.220 that monopolies are not good it's not

01:21:08.520 efficient and we need to open up we

01:21:10.920 need to increase we need to have

01:21:12.160 competition we need to decentralize and

01:21:14.900 unfortunately the centrally planned

01:21:16.900 system that we have right now is not

01:21:19.200 good Quebecers are spending a billion

01:21:21.600 dollar every single week in a system

01:21:23.940 that couldn't handle two or three

01:21:26.100 hundred patients in the intensive

01:21:28.280 health care facilities like well did

01:21:30.440 Quebec build it in most of Canada while

01:21:33.520 the pandemic was raging the government

01:21:35.980 seemed to be utterly unable to build

01:21:38.940 more emergency beds despite the fact that

01:21:43.620 the pandemic raged for a couple of

01:21:45.060 years and despite the fact that there was

01:21:46.520 a tremendous amount of money spent so what

01:21:48.800 kind of differentiated and detailed vision

01:21:51.140 do you have for improving the health

01:21:54.200 care system by introducing some private

01:21:56.480 public diversification and why shouldn't

01:21:58.340 people be afraid of that well first off we

01:22:00.940 have to respect the Canada Health Act

01:22:02.840 which says that everybody should have

01:22:05.180 could have access to free services and

01:22:07.260 it's universal so we're going to respect

01:22:10.120 the Canada Health Act we're not running

01:22:11.720 federally we're running provincially but we

01:22:14.060 want to also make sure you know the the

01:22:16.900 principle is that it's an insurance that

01:22:19.300 is public it doesn't mean that you have to

01:22:21.500 deliver the services in a public

01:22:23.560 monopoly so what we're saying is that we

01:22:26.580 already have clinics that are private in

01:22:28.300 Quebec but currently it's a hundred or

01:22:30.380 zero which means like a physician needs to

01:22:33.440 say this to work for the public system a

01:22:36.480 hundred percent or for the private system a

01:22:38.960 hundred percent he can't he can't go 50 50 or

01:22:42.280 70 30 it's it's it's you're either with us or

01:22:45.220 with the enemy like kind of thing we want to

01:22:47.880 change that we want to give the freedom of

01:22:49.420 fit to physicians to say look if you can't

01:22:51.920 work more than two or three days because

01:22:54.020 that's a lot of them are stuck with that

01:22:56.200 because they don't have access to operation

01:22:58.360 facilities or all sorts of things so then

01:23:00.760 you can spend your your extra time and go in

01:23:03.640 the private sector and give more services to

01:23:06.040 the population that's one thing the second

01:23:08.500 thing we want to say is that you can have an

01:23:11.140 insurance you can invest in your health you

01:23:13.240 know it's it's crazy in Canada you can

01:23:15.380 invest to drink as much as you want if you

01:23:17.480 go to a liquor store a public monopoly of

01:23:19.920 liquor store or you can invest that you can

01:23:22.580 gamble in a in a public utility also with as

01:23:26.820 much money as you want but you can't invest

01:23:28.900 a penny in what's the most important in

01:23:31.060 your life and the life of your family which

01:23:32.800 is your health yeah so well so for those who

01:23:35.440 are listening some of you are going to

01:23:37.000 especially the younger people with perhaps

01:23:38.760 somewhat less experience you're going to

01:23:40.100 think well we don't want to compromise the

01:23:42.720 principle of universal free access but

01:23:45.360 let's so my father for example he's been he

01:23:50.780 had waited for a knee operation he's an he's

01:23:53.800 an older man he's in his mid 80s he waited

01:23:56.720 for a knee replacement for two and a half

01:23:58.740 years now one of the things I'd like to

01:24:01.220 point out is that is a cost of course and

01:24:04.720 it's lucky it didn't kill him and so there

01:24:06.920 one of the ways that the universally

01:24:08.840 accessible free health care system that

01:24:11.360 Canada hypothetically possesses and that

01:24:13.340 is hypothetically the best in the world

01:24:15.080 which is a very dubious claim by the way

01:24:17.280 is that it just rations it and so what

01:24:21.020 happens is that as you pointed out there

01:24:23.000 are nowhere near enough operating rooms

01:24:24.980 not even close and so people are on

01:24:27.280 waiting lists for long enough often to 0.83

01:24:30.340 kill them which I suppose is a cost 0.99

01:24:32.340 savings of a sort because they're waiting 1.00

01:24:34.480 to gain access to operating rooms that

01:24:36.660 just don't exist even though the

01:24:38.260 physicians are ready to do the

01:24:39.500 operations and so you limit the cost by

01:24:41.700 just limiting access but you don't

01:24:43.480 bloody well limit the cost no you just

01:24:46.120 make it impossible for people ever to

01:24:48.560 pay enough to actually get cured yeah and

01:24:51.360 this is a this is a very pervasive problem

01:24:53.400 in the Canadian health care establishment

01:24:54.900 it's not some little trivial problem there's

01:24:57.780 much better systems around the world they I've

01:24:59.940 visited the for example Sweden a few

01:25:02.500 years ago in Sweden you can have a private

01:25:04.600 hospital next to a public hospital and

01:25:07.540 the public hospital cannot provide you the

01:25:10.180 services that you need within a reasonable

01:25:13.880 delays you can cross over go to the private

01:25:16.300 facility and the government's going to pay

01:25:17.840 for it which makes makes more sense or even

01:25:20.240 if there's no even no matter what the

01:25:22.620 delays are if the private sector can do it

01:25:24.940 for cheaper than the public sector you can go

01:25:27.400 directly to the private sector so why don't

01:25:30.580 we have those systems you know Europe has

01:25:32.440 much more efficient systems than we have

01:25:34.560 right now in Canada and but we're for some

01:25:37.880 odd reasons we think that our system is the

01:25:40.060 best of the world but it's not at all and we

01:25:43.120 saw it with the pandemic if you know we saw

01:25:45.700 how fast the system cracked down and how we

01:25:48.560 weren't able to to to provide services that

01:25:51.540 people were paying for well and one of the

01:25:53.520 consequences of that too and this is

01:25:55.580 partly because the government dominated the

01:25:57.440 health care industry is that well we can't

01:25:59.900 actually cope with this influx of sick

01:26:01.820 people because our system is dreadfully

01:26:03.480 inefficient so what will what do we do

01:26:05.280 instead because we can't actually offer

01:26:07.260 medical services we'll say well how about

01:26:09.580 you don't get to go outside because that

01:26:12.560 looks like something to do and it looks

01:26:14.420 like action on the part of the bureaucrats or

01:26:16.300 how about you can't travel in your own

01:26:18.140 country that's it and so the degeneration

01:26:20.920 and and lack of utility of the public health

01:26:24.560 care system was a direct it was an indirect

01:26:27.440 contributor to the authoritarian crackdown at

01:26:30.800 the federal and provincial levels absolutely

01:26:33.060 and so and have you toyed at all with the

01:26:36.260 idea of because I'm always interested in the

01:26:38.860 issue of experimentation if you were going to

01:26:41.080 transform the the health care system in

01:26:43.980 Quebec by allowing for private competition

01:26:48.320 and diversification of health care provision

01:26:50.260 would you be able to do you have a vision of

01:26:53.200 how you might do that in a manner that would be

01:26:55.440 technically experimental so that you could

01:26:58.360 build toy projects and evaluate their utility

01:27:01.160 with some half decent set of metrics before

01:27:03.360 scaling it up absolutely we'll start in in

01:27:05.740 larger cities obviously because for for all

01:27:08.080 sorts of reasons it's much more it makes more

01:27:10.360 sense because the competition is going to be 1.00

01:27:12.320 easier to do we're also it looks very stupid 0.88

01:27:17.540 it's a small change but it could be a huge it could 0.94

01:27:21.260 have a huge impact currently our hospitals the way

01:27:24.420 they're funded is that they have fixed budgets

01:27:26.800 year after year and with a few you know a few

01:27:29.300 percentage increase from one year to the other no

01:27:32.120 matter how many patients they're receiving every

01:27:34.640 year and no so we want just to make sure that the

01:27:38.880 money follows the patient so so at least the

01:27:41.960 institution has an interest of bringing you in and

01:27:45.000 providing you services instead of like currently

01:27:47.500 the less people come in and the better it is most more 0.88

01:27:50.660 profitable they are so we want just to reverse the

01:27:53.660 way the state funds the system we're not going to

01:27:56.440 have fixed budgets for hospitals with a small

01:27:58.660 increase every year we're going to fund every

01:28:01.160 intervention they're doing and as many patients more

01:28:03.660 patients they have more money they will get so at least

01:28:06.200 they're going to have an incentive even as public

01:28:08.600 institutions to attract people and provide better

01:28:11.200 services and make sure that patients are like

01:28:13.460 clients and they want to make sure that they're

01:28:15.540 satisfied when they get out of the hospital so next

01:28:17.980 time they come to their facility instead of the

01:28:20.100 neck the one next door and so it's very small things

01:28:24.040 that could be done to send a free market economy

01:28:27.500 message that will improve the system any any ideas

01:28:32.780 for it I'll ask you two more sets of questions the

01:28:35.180 first would be do you have any ideas for innovations on

01:28:38.180 the education front from K through 12 to through the

01:28:42.300 university system which in my estimation has become

01:28:45.240 well the whole bloody system has become remarkably

01:28:47.460 corrupt and then also I'd like to have your opinion

01:28:52.500 about we haven't talked much about the federal

01:28:54.740 conservatives yet and the leadership race and I'd be

01:28:57.400 interested in your what would you say your opinions and

01:29:00.960 also your hopes on that front so maybe we can start with the

01:29:04.160 issue of education if that's a reasonable place to go

01:29:06.360 education in Quebec English Canadians need to know

01:29:09.900 something that the private sector is a little bit more

01:29:12.340 present and that's also another it's also another lasting

01:29:17.660 how could I say a thing of the past because of the Catholic 1.00

01:29:21.500 Church many of those old schools you know they were

01:29:25.600 Catholic schools and they were transformed into private

01:29:28.140 schools so we have more competition in education in

01:29:31.000 Quebec than elsewhere and the state also funds public private

01:29:35.600 institutions private schools in Quebec as high as 75% of what

01:29:39.800 they do for the public sector so there's already a competition we

01:29:44.360 want to increase that and because of that the public system has

01:29:47.960 been much better so now they provide you know international

01:29:52.100 programs or or exports and also there's all our arts and all sorts of

01:29:57.740 activities to make sure that they have to listen to parents because

01:30:00.560 otherwise parents go to the private sector it has put a good pressure and

01:30:04.360 it's exactly what we want to do in the in the healthcare system we've done it at

01:30:08.560 in part in the in schools but we want to increase it that that a little bit more

01:30:12.940 by going with you know kind of vouchers so they could parents could have more

01:30:18.520 freedom of choice of which school they're sending their kids you know we do

01:30:23.760 believe that it's the parents again it comes back to all the discussion we're

01:30:27.160 having since the beginning we want to give more power in the hands of the

01:30:30.340 parents to decide for the the school of their kids so that's part of it but the

01:30:35.860 big big issue on education the most important one right now is regarding

01:30:41.020 daycare because we have as I said a public daycare in Quebec it's called the you

01:30:46.960 know the kindergarten of of young kids that has been funded by the state largely

01:30:53.560 funded by the state and there's over a hundred thousand kids right now that go

01:30:58.300 into that public system and but there's fifty two thousand kids that are on

01:31:03.700 waiting list because this is what you know states intervention does it creates

01:31:09.280 waiting list that's how the the cost well that's where the yeah exactly that's

01:31:13.060 where the cost is hidden like your father and his knee like it's you know the

01:31:17.380 cost it's not this is credit card it's the fact that he has to wait for over two

01:31:21.400 years to get a surgery so what we're saying is that this is unacceptable and

01:31:27.700 those parents pay taxes by the way and they don't they cannot they cannot have

01:31:32.200 the service that they're paying for and also with the new reality there's more

01:31:36.220 and more parents nowadays that do not work Monday to Friday nine to five the you

01:31:40.960 know and with some of them now are just working two or three days outside their

01:31:45.360 homes so that what they need in terms of daycare is very different than what

01:31:49.220 their parents or their grandparents needed for their kids so we want to make

01:31:53.160 sure that we have a more flexible system and obviously the state can't provide

01:31:56.840 that we need to go in the private sector and that's why we want to give $200 per

01:32:01.760 week per kid to parents who are not within the public monopoly so they could

01:32:06.720 decide for themselves where they could you know which kind of kindergarten they're

01:32:11.900 looking for and bring that to a private facility no matter what it is so it's a

01:32:16.780 voucher system that's child-centered exactly are you aware by any chance a more

01:32:23.400 technical matter are you aware of any chance of the details of the of Hungary's

01:32:27.880 policy on families no I'm not okay well let me just run that through briefly I can

01:32:32.540 send you some material I think they've done an unbelievably effective job on a

01:32:37.480 variety of fronts well in Hungary I hope I have the details of this exactly right but I

01:32:44.500 definitely have the picture correct so the Hungarians were very concerned about

01:32:49.320 their extremely low birth rate and I think rightly so because I think a very 1.00

01:32:53.140 low birth rate is a sign that something has gone wrong in a society the priorities

01:32:56.900 aren't right so are Quebecers by the way I know I know well that's partly why I'm 1.00

01:33:01.020 bringing this up so what the Hungarians decided to do and they spend about six or

01:33:04.880 seven percent of their GDP now or their budget I don't remember it's the budget or the

01:33:09.980 GDP but it's a large proportion of their governmental spending and it's the

01:33:14.880 fundamental policy objective so if you're a Hungarian mother and this tends to be

01:33:21.260 focused particularly on people who are within stable long-term monogamous

01:33:26.240 relationships with children if you have four children you never pay income tax again

01:33:31.440 in your life I think if you have three it's 75 percent reduction if you have two it's

01:33:36.920 50 percent if you have one it's 25 percent and they've raised the birth rate in Hungary 0.98

01:33:41.960 substantively they've also cut the abortion rate by 40 percent over the last about 12

01:33:48.700 years with no compulsion with no real change in the underlying abortion laws and so they

01:33:53.520 have a very very family-friendly policy and they have very very smart people working on

01:33:58.920 it and so that's well that's that's something I found extremely interesting and promising

01:34:03.780 now also this is so cool at the same time they've increased female participation in

01:34:09.820 the labor force by 13 percent so the people who opposed the family policy

01:34:14.520 structure made the case that you were going to lock women at home and you know and revert 1.00

01:34:20.840 them to a more traditional role and this was part of some something approximating a

01:34:25.040 patriarchal plot but the reality is is that women are receiving recognition for the 1.00

01:34:30.940 long-term contribution they make to to the growth of society and its stability and are

01:34:37.560 more able to operate in the present and in the near future in the economic realm and so

01:34:43.200 so anyways I'll send you that material absolutely I'm looking forward to read that yeah yeah it's

01:34:48.000 very it's very interesting okay so let's close this off if you unless there's something else that

01:34:52.240 you specifically want to address afterward with your with your comments about the federal leadership

01:34:59.120 race in Canada your relations if any with the front runners and with your hopes about what might be

01:35:07.660 accomplished you know because we could have a conservative government in Quebec and a conservative

01:35:12.540 government federally hypothetically at some point in the next relatively short period of time you know

01:35:18.140 next few years uh maybe even sooner than that on the Quebec front who knows so what what what do you

01:35:25.040 see as the appropriate and desirable way forward in terms of your relationship with the federal

01:35:31.660 conservatives well to talk about my personal relation with the candidates running right now

01:35:37.340 uh you have to know that Jean Charest who's from Quebec who's the one of the the the the participant

01:35:43.700 in that race when he's uh he's a former premier so he was with the liberal party of Quebec I've been a

01:35:50.000 political opponent at the provincial level with him for uh for several years uh I know him but I we

01:35:56.020 never worked together uh Pierre Polyev is uh who's perceived as a front runner was a uh you know was a guy

01:36:03.160 that I worked with for many years even when he was a student uh working on Stockwell Day's leadership race

01:36:08.980 that's when I met him many many years ago um he even campaigned for me when I ran for the ADQ for

01:36:15.380 the Action Démocratique du Québec he he was a student working in Ottawa and decided to come for a

01:36:21.200 I think he spent a month with me campaigning on the in my constituency during those days so I've

01:36:26.820 known Pierre for ages uh and uh so we'll see but the you know it's not just the leader that is going

01:36:33.200 to be important but it's the direction that the party is going to take uh that for me is the most

01:36:37.980 important um I I hope that the party is going to be nationalist not not just Quebec nationalist but

01:36:44.320 Canada nationalist because I think that that's something lacking in Canada and Quebec right now

01:36:49.060 it's not normal that it's truckers and protesters that are using the flag and that the prime minister

01:36:54.600 is not like you know the just the fact that we saw that over the last few months should ring a bell

01:37:01.080 to many people um you know usually when you raise a flag it's because you're supporting the institution

01:37:07.660 uh the democratic institution of your country it's not because you're protesting against the people

01:37:12.560 who are supposed to represent you um and so the uh so I hope that you know the uh that's one that's

01:37:20.020 going to be one thing that the person is going to defend our interests nationally and uh that also it's

01:37:25.500 going to be a decentralist that is going to respect provincial rights and I think both both frontrunners

01:37:30.900 are uh are decentralists at a certain extent because Mr. Charest was a Quebec premier so he knows how

01:37:36.680 important it is for you know he knows provinces and and their powers uh I know Pierre I know that Pierre

01:37:42.800 is also a strong decentralist so I I think that's very important and it's going to be uh interesting and

01:37:49.040 it could you know if if there is a force provincially uh since Quebecers identify themselves more with the

01:37:55.580 provincial level than the federal level the conservative brand in Quebec could also have a push federally I

01:38:02.060 think uh because we're you know more and more people now are identifying themselves as conservatives

01:38:07.380 in Quebec and I'm 100% sure that it's going to have an impact even if it's not the same party uh you

01:38:13.560 know there's a link at many extent and people will it's going to be much easier to identify as a

01:38:19.500 conservative so I I think we could both help each other out but the the opposite is also true if I do 0.96

01:38:26.140 stupid things or the conservatives at the federal level do stupid things we're going to impact badly each 0.98

01:38:31.260 other and have a negative overall impact yeah well hopefully the conservatives in Canada will be able 0.99

01:38:37.100 to get themselves together on the organizational front and and be uh useful allies rather than

01:38:43.180 counterproductive and accidental opponents and so are there any other issues I that you would like to

01:38:52.540 put before the people who are viewing and listening and maybe also if people are interested in supporting you

01:38:59.660 um and and helping along with this with with the realization of your vision what would you recommend

01:39:08.780 that they do well if they're in Quebec of course they could get much more involved be they could

01:39:13.220 become member they could give us money you know that here it's limited to 200 dollars per just for the

01:39:19.420 election year the other years it's only 100 dollars we have laws that forbid anybody but people who have a

01:39:24.680 right to vote in Quebec to give money so corporations or anyone outside of Quebec it's forbidden um and

01:39:31.160 uh for the uh but every single Canadian 16 years old and older could become member of the party you can go

01:39:39.080 on conservative.quebec and then you can be a card carrying member even if you're outside of Quebec as

01:39:43.720 many Quebecers as an Albertan you know that many Quebecers live in Alberta nowadays because that's where

01:39:49.800 the jobs are for the oil and gas industry since we're depriving our people to have a right to work

01:39:55.320 in that industry in Quebec um so that's one thing they can do the uh and the strength of the movement

01:40:02.520 is also because it's not I don't see what's going on in Quebec right now honestly as a um as a political

01:40:09.480 party it's a movement it's not it's not because of me it's not because of conservative party it's something

01:40:14.680 coming from the grassroots and uh the uh there's a huge movement and those people are talking on the

01:40:21.640 social media talking to their neighbors their colleagues their families you know it's that's

01:40:27.000 the way it works and it becomes organic right now and just commenting and liking things on Facebook is

01:40:32.360 having an impact and we see it uh sharing this video right now will have an impact uh the you know

01:40:38.920 it's we it's small little things that we think don't change anything but it does have an impact as

01:40:44.360 much as I voting well you're you're a political operative and you have been for a long time

01:40:49.160 and you've learned how the system works I mean it's easy for young people in particular to think that

01:40:54.200 well there's no point for example in joining a political party because they just can't they'll just

01:41:00.200 be ignored and my experience because I've worked in political parties is exactly the opposite of that

01:41:05.000 is that if you're willing to commit especially initially on the volunteer front and you're good at it

01:41:11.960 the probability that doors will open to you with regard to your advancement is unbelievably high

01:41:17.640 and so has that has that been reflected in your experience huge and and uh and even more than that

01:41:23.720 for the upcoming election it's the participation rate we'll have to look at um because everything

01:41:29.960 that we're talking about and the fact that we're talking to crowds who usually don't even vote

01:41:34.040 uh is very very important we need to make sure that we motivate those people and they do you know

01:41:41.480 they they get out on on october 3rd and they go cast their vote and because we're probably going to

01:41:46.760 figure out the results before we even counted one single ballot just by looking at the participation

01:41:52.200 rate we're going to know if we won or lost the election and because this is all this is what and

01:41:57.560 it's not just in quebec and provincially it's everywhere right now I think when there's a movement like

01:42:02.040 this there's a grassroots movement if you want to know if it's successful or not look at the

01:42:06.440 participation rate if the participation rate is going up the roof you know that they're winning

01:42:11.480 and and in quebec last election for example two-thirds of voters did get out and vote so one-third of

01:42:17.080 people didn't go at all and that's for for us it's huge because we participate much more at the

01:42:22.120 provincial level than at the federal level that's another difference between quebec and canada

01:42:26.040 um the uh we you know the the people are more involved at the provincial than at the federal

01:42:31.480 level when it's time to vote and but this time we have to look at the participation rate and we have

01:42:36.360 to increase that so everything we're doing and the fact that we're not in the mainstream media

01:42:41.480 is also a reflect of uh that we're going outside of the normal box of voters and so people who are

01:42:48.360 listening then we can say to them well listen if you want to get involved if you're interested in the

01:42:53.640 ideas that have been discussed here and you find them in the least compelling you could take a risk

01:42:58.120 and join a political party um the party of your choice obviously in this case it would be the

01:43:02.760 conservatives it's not an expensive thing to do and if you're looking for something meaningful to be

01:43:08.120 engaged in participational political party can open that up to you and then the next most important

01:43:13.800 thing or perhaps even the more important thing given the immediacy of what's going on in quebec is that

01:43:19.480 if you are interested in these things and you think they're important then please vote get out and

01:43:26.280 vote yeah get out and vote because it matters and you know it's been the case in many elections

01:43:32.040 especially over the last couple of decades in many countries that the vote is actually determined by a

01:43:37.240 very small minority of people because they're so close exactly and so while you talk you talked about

01:43:42.120 the separatist vote 1995 what were the what was it 49.9 to 50.1 was it that close 49.6 to

01:43:49.400 50.4 if i recall properly uh right right so so so everyone's vote really did count and more

01:43:56.440 elections are like that than you think yeah and now we have five parties we have five parties in

01:44:00.760 quebec also which means that you don't need 50 percent plus one to win it's the the party that's

01:44:05.800 going to win it's going to be under 40 it's probably it's 30-ish percent that is going to make

01:44:10.200 a difference and 30-ish percent of two-thirds of people not voting so it means 22 percent so you

01:44:15.800 could lose 78 percent of voters and win an election right right right right so one of the

01:44:21.640 things i've been trying to do as i've been touring around is to suggest to people who've become cynical

01:44:26.280 that they shoulder a bit more civic responsibility it's like if you if you think the system can't be

01:44:31.720 changed in some incremental fundamental and responsible sense and you justify your own cynicism

01:44:38.360 and apathy with that presupposition you might want to test that out by doing something like joining a

01:44:43.640 civic organization or a political party and what you will find is that if you have the will the way

01:44:49.160 for you will be made way faster than you could possibly imagine and i think that might be more

01:44:53.880 true on the political front than in any other domain of activity because every political party i've ever

01:44:59.240 been associated with in any way is constantly starving for manpower work and money absolutely

01:45:05.880 so well it was really good talking to you today i'm i'm very pleased with the fact that you agreed

01:45:14.040 to speak with me and delighted to offer you the opportunity to delineate your views in some

01:45:20.200 more comprehensive sense in a relatively public square is there anything else you would like to say to

01:45:26.120 the people who are watching and listening either provincially federally or internationally before we close i

01:45:31.240 want to say merci beaucoup thank you very much it was a great talking to you and hopefully next time

01:45:36.520 we can chat face to face in in toronto or montreal that'd be good i'm coming to montreal in a month

01:45:42.360 and a half or so and so maybe we can arrange to do that then i might be premier at that time that well

01:45:47.480 then that would make it even even uh in some sense more exciting so um pleasure to meet you and i hope we

01:45:53.800 do get a chance to meet in person in the relatively near future hello everyone i would encourage you to

01:45:59.800 continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 19, 2022

289. Why Are Young People Converting to Conservatism？｜ Eric Duhaime

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 19, 2022

289. Why Are Young People Converting to Conservatism？ ｜ Eric Duhaime

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

289. Why Are Young People Converting to Conservatism？｜ Eric Duhaime