The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast


289. Why Are Young People Converting to Conservatism？ ｜ Eric Duhaime


Summary

In this episode of Daily Wire Plus, I speak with Eric Douha, the leader of the Conservative Party in the province of Quebec, about the challenges facing Canada's political class, and why it's important to have a long-form discussion about the political landscape in Canada. Dr. Jordan B. Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety. We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling. With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way, and in his new series, he provides a roadmap towards healing. In this episode, we talk about: 1. The challenges facing the political class in Canada 2. The role of the media 3. The impact of social media 4. Conservative leadership 5. Conservative Party Candidates 6. Conservative Leadership 7. Conservative Candidates in the Canadian Political Landscape 8. Conservative Debates 9. Conservative Issues 10. Conservative Priorities 11. Conservative Identities 12. Conservative Problems 13. Conservative Views 14. Conservative Beliefs 15. Conservative Facts 16. Conservative Approval 17. Conservative Criticism 18. Conservative Support Conservative Belief 19. Conservative Reaction Support for Conservative Candidacy 21. Conservative Strategy 22. Conservative Future 23. Conservative Direction 24. Conservative Vision Listen to the Podcast, I'll Tell You What I'm Working On 25. 26. Conservative Perspective 27. Conservative Experience 29. Conservative Thought 30. Conservative Opinion 31. Conservative Outlook 32. Conservative Media Introvert 35. Conservative Problem 36. Conservative Voice 35, Conservative Party of Canada? 34. Conservative Presentation 39. Conservative Growth 41. Conservative Response 44. Conservative Approach 45. Conservative Opportunity 42. Conservative Success 46. Conservative Identity 47. Conservative Position 49. Conservative Path 51. Conservativeism 56. Conservative Connections Theme Music by Ian Duce_ , & Other? , "Canadians Can I Talk About It? & , , etc., etc., Download a Podcast by , We Can t Talk About This?


Transcript

00:00:00.940 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.
00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:12.740 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:20.100 With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:27.420 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:00:35.360 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:00:41.780 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:00:47.460 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:00:57.420 Oh, hello everyone. I'm pleased to be talking today with Mr. Eric Duhem, and he is the leader of the Conservative Party in the province of Quebec,
00:01:19.720 the French-language-dominant province in Canada, and he is the fourth or the fifth Conservative leader to speak with me on my platform over the last year or so,
00:01:37.040 a process that's actually been accelerating in recent months.
00:01:40.620 I've spoken with a number of the candidates who are vying for the leadership of the Conservative Party in Canada at the federal level.
00:01:49.060 The Conservatives, for those of you who aren't Canadian or who are Canadian but don't know,
00:01:55.100 the Conservatives and the Liberals at the federal level in Canada battle continually,
00:02:00.020 have battled continually throughout Canadian history for the leadership position,
00:02:04.800 and generally it's the Liberals who win, although the Conservatives perhaps occupy the throne, so to speak, about a third of the time.
00:02:13.460 And so the basic political landscape in Canada is centre-right versus centre-left,
00:02:20.380 and we have a Socialist Party, the New Democratic Party, that also shows reasonably well federally,
00:02:27.700 and they're farther left, generally speaking.
00:02:31.500 And for most of Canadian history, that's been the balance at the federal level.
00:02:36.160 There are additional parties playing a federal role, but they're relatively minor players now and historically.
00:02:43.840 Generally in Canada, over our entire history, which is since 1867 formally,
00:02:49.860 although the country in many ways goes back hundreds of years before that,
00:02:52.820 all the parties have been credible players and likely to do approximately what they claim they'll do in some fundamental sense,
00:03:05.620 which means they're no worse and maybe no better than generally respectable and responsible human enterprises.
00:03:13.640 And that's enabled Canadians to develop and maintain a fair bit of trust in their fundamental institutions.
00:03:19.980 And I would say that trust has been shaken quite profoundly in the last five or six years in a very large number of ways.
00:03:28.420 One of the consequences of that is that the relationship between the political class and the media class has shifted quite dramatically.
00:03:37.740 The legacy media everywhere in the world is dying a relatively painful death as network broadcasting becomes an untenable enterprise
00:03:47.340 and as the proliferation of online publishing platforms has led to the demise of the dominance of centralized print journalists
00:03:57.360 and all of that shaking out in all sorts of odd ways.
00:04:00.780 One of them is that the legacy media increasingly colludes with people in power,
00:04:08.440 but also, and logically following from that, no longer serves its role as proper critic of democratic leadership, let's say.
00:04:20.340 And so, the political class in Canada, particularly on the conservative side, seems to be waking up to this reality,
00:04:29.120 perhaps because they're treated worse by the legacy media than the other parties, more unfairly because of the left-leaning bias that characterizes the legacy media.
00:04:37.580 And so, one consequence of that apparently is that these leaders have been increasingly willing to talk on YouTube
00:04:47.420 and then more specifically to talk with me.
00:04:51.900 And recently, Mr. Douaim reached out to me.
00:04:56.360 He is the leader of the Conservative Party in Quebec and wanted to engage in a long-form discussion,
00:05:04.840 which I think is a very good thing, given that it's a form of political discussion that isn't filtered through arbitrary editing
00:05:16.520 or the necessary process of parsing out trenchant soundbites.
00:05:22.620 And so, it's actually possible to have a discussion that involves thought
00:05:25.840 that also isn't a competition between the journalists, which would be me in this case, and the politician.
00:05:32.200 So, I'm going to give you a bit of a bio of Mr. Douaim, and I'd like to thank him for being willing to speak with me
00:05:39.960 and for having the courage to submit himself to a long-form discussion in public, because that's not nothing to do that.
00:05:48.140 It's quite a daring form of self-exposure to do this without pre-preparation.
00:05:55.880 And none of the questions that I'm going to ask him were agreed upon beforehand.
00:06:00.440 There's no tricks here, except for the ones I can't help but play.
00:06:05.000 So, I'll give you a little bio about Mr. Douaim, and then I think probably what we'll do is
00:06:09.320 we'll try to situate the political landscape.
00:06:13.760 We'll try to describe the political landscape in Quebec and to situate that within the broader political landscape in Canada
00:06:20.460 so that people who are listening have a sense of what's going on there.
00:06:24.560 And we'll also attempt to describe why knowing such things, well, first of all, should be relevant to Canadians, obviously,
00:06:32.440 but might also be relevant to people around the world who increasingly, at their political level,
00:06:39.100 especially in the West, are grappling with very similar problems.
00:06:41.980 It's a very weird convergence around the world of the assemblage of problems and potential political solutions.
00:06:49.040 So, Mr. Douaim earned a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from the University of Montreal
00:06:56.120 and a Master's degree from École Nationale d'Administration Publique.
00:07:01.000 He writes for the Journal to Montreal.
00:07:03.780 He's had a long career as a journalist.
00:07:05.280 And the National Post, which is one of Canada's national newspapers,
00:07:08.520 and works on various non-legacy journalistic endeavors online and elsewhere.
00:07:13.300 He's one of the early adopters in Canada on the political horizon of the non-legacy media forms
00:07:19.220 like the podcast that we're engaging in at the moment.
00:07:22.780 He spent more than a decade as a political advisor in Ottawa, Canada's capital, and Quebec City,
00:07:29.620 which is Quebec's capital.
00:07:31.120 He advised Stockwell Day, a leader of one of Canada's conservative parties,
00:07:36.920 which have now amalgamated, by the way,
00:07:38.400 when he led the Canadian Alliance from 2001 to 2004,
00:07:42.400 for Mario Dumont, who was leader of the Action Démocratique du Québec from 2003 to 2008,
00:07:49.200 and later Gilles Duceppe of the Bloc Québécois,
00:07:52.880 which, paradoxically and strangely, is a separatist party for Quebec
00:07:57.240 that operates nationally in Canada,
00:07:59.640 because we have a very peculiar political system.
00:08:02.420 Douaim also co-founded the Réseau Liberté Québec,
00:08:05.400 a movement aimed at a revival of conservatism and libertarianism in Quebec,
00:08:12.120 because Mr. Douaim leans on the conservative side
00:08:16.800 towards the more individualistic libertarian end of the distribution.
00:08:24.200 In November 2020, Douaim ran to succeed Conservative Party of Quebec leader
00:08:30.300 Adrian D. Puglio, winning with 95% of the vote.
00:08:36.180 And so, I thought we'd start our discussion first by welcoming you, Mr. Douaim,
00:08:40.360 and then letting you expound for a bit on,
00:08:44.400 maybe you can explain Quebec to our listeners.
00:08:51.400 Let's talk about the province a bit,
00:08:53.120 and about its interesting situation in the Canadian political landscape,
00:08:57.860 and then we'll talk about the current Quebec political landscape
00:09:02.080 and what you're endeavouring to achieve.
00:09:04.540 Thank you very much for welcoming me.
00:09:07.760 Well, you want me to talk about Quebec?
00:09:09.580 For those who are not aware, of course,
00:09:11.400 we're the French province in Canada,
00:09:14.860 you know, 25%, 23% of Canadians.
00:09:21.280 We, you know, we've, politically speaking,
00:09:25.420 over the last 50 years,
00:09:27.040 Quebec has been a battleground between the separatists and the federalists.
00:09:31.600 So, there's those who wanted Quebec to separate from Canada
00:09:34.700 and those who wanted Quebec to stay within Canada.
00:09:37.580 For many decades, you know, since I was born,
00:09:40.840 we've always been fighting between those two political sides.
00:09:45.760 And now the political landscape is changing in Quebec slowly but surely.
00:09:50.300 There were two defeats for the yes side,
00:09:52.940 so for the separatist side in 1980 and in 1995.
00:09:57.160 And that's where probably many people all around the world
00:09:59.540 heard the most about Quebec
00:10:00.820 because it was a very, very tight result,
00:10:05.020 especially in 95,
00:10:06.120 whether it was like not even 51% against 49.4%.
00:10:10.120 So, that's been a, you know, a huge political thing going on.
00:10:15.940 But nowadays, there's not as much appetite,
00:10:18.840 especially not among the youngest generation,
00:10:21.640 to talk about those divisive issues or elsewhere.
00:10:24.940 And we see that the two old parties
00:10:27.100 that used to split us between federalists and separatists,
00:10:31.820 the yes camp and the no camp, are melting down.
00:10:34.460 And now we have five political parties.
00:10:37.000 You know, it's very, very unusual for the kind of system that we're in.
00:10:41.660 And so there's five main political parties
00:10:43.780 in this upcoming election at the provincial level.
00:10:46.320 There's one socialist party, Quebec Solidaire.
00:10:49.680 There's the governing party, the Coalition Avenir Québec,
00:10:52.440 which is a nationalist centrist party.
00:10:54.940 There's the liberals who are the former federalist side,
00:10:58.880 who are still federalists,
00:10:59.900 but more leaning on the left as well.
00:11:02.860 And the separatist party historically,
00:11:05.520 the Parti Québécois,
00:11:07.040 who's also more on the left of the political spectrum.
00:11:10.100 So, it's going to,
00:11:11.300 it's a very, very interesting period of time in our history,
00:11:15.260 politically speaking.
00:11:16.220 And this election could be a very historical election
00:11:18.680 that is going to mark the end of a cycle
00:11:21.780 and hopefully the beginning of a new one.
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00:13:01.000 Canada's been a somewhat difficult country
00:13:08.000 to cobble together
00:13:08.900 because of the linguistic divide,
00:13:10.700 because of the massive scale
00:13:12.320 of the geographic enterprise
00:13:14.960 and because of the distinction
00:13:17.640 and differences
00:13:19.120 between the French civil law system
00:13:22.520 and the English common law system.
00:13:24.320 And so it's been a real tricky balancing act
00:13:26.740 for Canadians to keep the country unified
00:13:29.740 from coast to coast
00:13:30.880 with Quebec sitting
00:13:32.180 not precisely in the middle
00:13:33.760 but approximately in the middle.
00:13:35.800 And so, as Mr. Duame said,
00:13:39.060 that just about came to destruction
00:13:40.900 twice in the last 45 years.
00:13:45.040 We escaped with our country intact
00:13:47.220 by the narrowest of margins.
00:13:49.540 It might be of some interest
00:13:51.080 for people listening to know
00:13:52.460 that in many ways,
00:13:53.980 and please correct me
00:13:54.860 if you believe my interpretation
00:13:56.360 to be incomplete,
00:13:57.740 Quebec was one of the last countries
00:13:59.520 so to speak,
00:14:01.340 nations in the Western world
00:14:03.260 that underwent the transition
00:14:05.480 from traditional Catholicism
00:14:09.380 to modernity.
00:14:12.960 The awakening in Quebec,
00:14:15.960 let's say,
00:14:17.240 occurred in the late 1950s.
00:14:19.380 Before that,
00:14:20.140 Quebec was an extremely
00:14:21.580 traditional Catholic enclave
00:14:24.180 with extremely large families.
00:14:26.400 I did genetic research
00:14:27.640 in Quebec for quite a long time
00:14:29.540 and it was very common
00:14:31.020 for the older people
00:14:32.660 in our research samples
00:14:34.380 to have had 10 siblings,
00:14:37.000 very large families.
00:14:38.920 And then,
00:14:40.200 and so Quebec was united
00:14:43.000 on the French side
00:14:44.200 and very tightly kin-related
00:14:46.860 because Quebec was also settled
00:14:48.280 by a relatively small number
00:14:50.000 of French settlers.
00:14:51.180 And so Quebec was also
00:14:52.780 tightly kin-related society.
00:14:54.440 And the French
00:14:55.560 were under the rubric
00:14:58.620 of this intense Catholicism.
00:15:00.920 The English in Quebec
00:15:02.200 had more financial power,
00:15:04.960 generally speaking,
00:15:05.800 although they were
00:15:06.260 a very small minority
00:15:07.740 of people
00:15:08.740 compared to the French.
00:15:10.460 In the 60s,
00:15:12.600 Catholicism dissolved precipitously.
00:15:15.680 Church attendance plummeted.
00:15:17.500 Family size crashed
00:15:19.220 to the point where
00:15:20.120 in many recent decades,
00:15:22.280 Quebec has had one
00:15:23.300 of the lowest birth rates
00:15:24.400 in the Western world.
00:15:25.920 The marriage rate collapsed
00:15:27.320 and along with that collapse,
00:15:29.260 interestingly enough,
00:15:30.840 there was a real rise
00:15:31.980 in nationalism.
00:15:33.100 And to me,
00:15:33.940 it's always been the case
00:15:36.020 that that was sort of
00:15:38.080 a microcosm
00:15:38.960 in many ways
00:15:39.960 of what also happened
00:15:40.820 in Europe
00:15:41.280 as classical Christianity
00:15:42.800 deteriorated.
00:15:44.220 Other systems
00:15:45.700 of group-fostered belief
00:15:47.760 flourished.
00:15:48.720 And part of what drove
00:15:50.320 Quebec separatism
00:15:51.340 was in some real sense
00:15:52.580 a substitute
00:15:53.640 for the religious impulse
00:15:55.880 that had united
00:15:56.620 Quebecois before.
00:15:58.060 I talked to a Gallup pollster
00:16:00.260 probably 20 years ago.
00:16:03.240 He answered a question
00:16:04.040 I always had
00:16:05.400 been curious about.
00:16:07.580 He said that their research
00:16:08.740 had indicated
00:16:09.320 that if you were
00:16:09.900 a lapsed Catholic
00:16:10.940 in Quebec
00:16:12.220 compared to
00:16:13.340 a continual churchgoer,
00:16:15.400 let's say,
00:16:15.900 and someone who maintained
00:16:16.740 their faith,
00:16:17.440 you were five times
00:16:18.600 more likely
00:16:19.240 to be an advocate
00:16:20.060 for separatism.
00:16:21.680 And now,
00:16:22.120 Mr. Duhame has pointed out
00:16:23.360 that in recent years,
00:16:25.320 and that would be
00:16:25.800 post-1995
00:16:26.900 when we had the last
00:16:27.980 referendum
00:16:28.560 on Quebec separatism,
00:16:30.700 the Quebec separatist
00:16:31.820 cause has
00:16:32.640 attracted less and less
00:16:35.420 fervor,
00:16:37.460 especially among
00:16:38.300 the young.
00:16:39.220 And you mentioned to me
00:16:40.300 in a bit of a brief
00:16:41.440 conversation that we had
00:16:42.540 before this podcast
00:16:43.500 started that
00:16:44.220 you're actually,
00:16:45.900 the Conservatives
00:16:46.800 have actually started
00:16:47.640 to become
00:16:48.180 more popular.
00:16:51.240 They're showing
00:16:52.160 their greatest growth
00:16:53.200 in popularity
00:16:53.840 among people
00:16:54.400 who are relatively
00:16:55.040 young in Quebec,
00:16:56.120 which is really
00:16:56.780 not what you'd expect.
00:16:58.020 So maybe you could
00:16:58.980 explain a little bit
00:16:59.720 about how you see
00:17:00.860 the relative demographics
00:17:02.440 and positions
00:17:03.120 of the various
00:17:03.780 political parties
00:17:04.520 in Quebec.
00:17:05.500 Well, first off,
00:17:06.520 I want to talk to you
00:17:07.260 about the,
00:17:07.940 as you rightly pointed out,
00:17:09.780 what we call it here
00:17:11.320 was the quiet revolution
00:17:12.560 in the late 50s,
00:17:14.000 early 60s,
00:17:14.740 when that shift happened,
00:17:16.000 when the Catholic Church
00:17:17.100 lost control
00:17:18.180 at a certain extent
00:17:19.220 of what was going
00:17:20.300 on in Quebec
00:17:20.880 and where the nanny state
00:17:23.380 became, you know,
00:17:24.720 growing and growing.
00:17:25.780 That's been happening
00:17:27.380 for the last 50 years.
00:17:30.200 So there was
00:17:31.580 a complete shift
00:17:32.520 and Quebec didn't
00:17:33.540 do anything different
00:17:34.420 from other societies
00:17:35.400 except that it was done
00:17:37.020 much faster.
00:17:38.260 Like it was a fast track
00:17:39.800 of everything
00:17:40.380 that we observed
00:17:41.140 in the Western world.
00:17:42.100 We did it in a very
00:17:43.200 short period of time.
00:17:44.500 Why so?
00:17:45.060 Probably because
00:17:45.680 we're a more
00:17:46.240 homogenous people
00:17:48.360 and so that's probably
00:17:50.120 why the shift
00:17:50.820 happened so quickly.
00:17:52.920 And that being said,
00:17:54.140 the impact politically,
00:17:56.720 as you said,
00:17:57.740 was that the Anglophones
00:17:59.180 who were dominant,
00:18:00.520 you know,
00:18:00.820 economically speaking,
00:18:02.440 well, there was a shift
00:18:04.420 on that side as well
00:18:05.540 with the growth
00:18:06.220 of the nationalist
00:18:07.440 and the separatist movement.
00:18:08.780 And I want to make sure here
00:18:10.080 that we differentiate nationalism
00:18:11.560 and separatism in Quebec.
00:18:13.420 I define myself
00:18:14.560 as a nationalist,
00:18:16.020 which means that I,
00:18:16.980 you know,
00:18:17.180 I'm proud of being francophone.
00:18:18.900 I do believe that
00:18:19.680 the common language
00:18:20.420 in Quebec is French.
00:18:22.000 And I think that
00:18:22.760 even Anglophones agree
00:18:24.580 with that here in Quebec.
00:18:25.680 There's one million
00:18:26.360 non-francophones in Quebec
00:18:27.980 who choose to stay here.
00:18:30.640 And the profile
00:18:31.660 of those people today
00:18:33.000 is very different
00:18:34.420 than the one we had
00:18:35.340 in the 60s or 70s.
00:18:37.260 The English community,
00:18:38.520 to give you an example,
00:18:39.440 75% of parents
00:18:41.780 who have kids at school
00:18:42.940 here in Montreal
00:18:44.020 and elsewhere in Quebec
00:18:45.580 who are non-francophones,
00:18:47.800 75% of them
00:18:49.100 now send their kids
00:18:50.280 to a French school,
00:18:51.840 immersion programs
00:18:53.340 or bilingual schools,
00:18:54.500 you know,
00:18:54.660 so they want their kids
00:18:55.780 to be bilingual
00:18:56.520 and to grow in French
00:18:58.000 and in English.
00:18:59.020 So it's not French
00:19:00.760 against English.
00:19:01.640 And I think that nowadays
00:19:03.040 my nationalism is positive.
00:19:05.760 Like,
00:19:05.900 I see Anglophones
00:19:07.020 as allies
00:19:08.140 to keep our uniqueness
00:19:09.720 in America
00:19:10.800 as a French society.
00:19:12.700 I don't see them
00:19:13.660 as a threat.
00:19:14.360 I don't see them
00:19:15.040 as enemies.
00:19:16.520 And that's,
00:19:17.180 but I'm a nationalist.
00:19:18.080 Like,
00:19:18.260 I do believe,
00:19:19.480 I don't believe
00:19:20.180 that Quebec
00:19:20.580 should become English
00:19:21.380 and we should assimilate.
00:19:22.420 That's not the point here.
00:19:23.680 So it's very different
00:19:24.860 to say we want
00:19:25.520 to break up Canada
00:19:26.600 and we want
00:19:27.120 to completely separate
00:19:28.020 and have it our own
00:19:28.880 and saying we want
00:19:29.960 to promote French.
00:19:30.760 And when you want
00:19:31.660 to become Quebec Premier,
00:19:33.340 as I do,
00:19:34.440 you have to understand
00:19:35.580 that one of your
00:19:36.360 first duties
00:19:37.300 is that you're not
00:19:38.760 just the leader
00:19:39.360 of a province
00:19:40.000 like elsewhere
00:19:40.720 or a state in the U.S.
00:19:42.160 You're also
00:19:42.920 the political leader
00:19:44.080 of the French minority
00:19:45.600 in America.
00:19:46.520 There's no one politically
00:19:47.620 that has more power
00:19:48.720 than you do.
00:19:49.840 And one of your
00:19:50.540 primary roles
00:19:51.520 is of course
00:19:52.160 to promote
00:19:52.780 and to protect French.
00:19:54.420 And I want to do that.
00:19:56.260 And I think it's important
00:19:57.200 for the Quebec Premier
00:19:58.140 to do that as well.
00:19:59.080 So that's on
00:20:01.400 the linguistic front
00:20:02.840 if I could say so
00:20:04.260 the way that we see it
00:20:06.940 and it does
00:20:09.140 as you said
00:20:09.860 the youth
00:20:10.560 has a different approach
00:20:11.840 because people who are
00:20:14.260 I would say
00:20:15.040 the shift is between
00:20:15.880 55 and 60 years old
00:20:17.520 right now in Quebec.
00:20:18.340 When you look at the polls
00:20:19.240 we're dominating
00:20:20.220 the latest
00:20:21.340 Main Street research
00:20:22.760 was saying that
00:20:24.200 we're dominating
00:20:25.320 between 18 and 50-ish
00:20:27.420 and then there's
00:20:28.300 a complete switch
00:20:29.300 and then when you're
00:20:30.320 at 65 and over
00:20:31.520 it's like 11 to 1
00:20:33.160 in favour of the CAC
00:20:34.260 the governing party
00:20:35.700 right now in Quebec.
00:20:36.700 So you see
00:20:37.380 it's a completely reversal
00:20:38.660 and we're especially
00:20:39.980 popular as Conservatives
00:20:41.480 among people
00:20:42.680 between 35 and 50
00:20:44.300 who still have kids
00:20:45.560 at home.
00:20:46.300 Those people
00:20:46.780 are the most
00:20:47.380 hardcore Conservatives
00:20:48.760 that you can find
00:20:49.900 right now in Quebec.
00:20:50.860 So it's interesting
00:20:51.680 to look at the demographics
00:20:52.880 but we have to understand
00:20:56.100 also that we're
00:20:57.000 post-crisis
00:20:58.600 and the crisis
00:21:00.480 changed the political
00:21:01.500 landscape as well.
00:21:02.680 You cannot lock down
00:21:04.580 a society for over two years
00:21:06.260 and think it's not going
00:21:07.400 to have any political impact.
00:21:09.220 The people who suffered
00:21:10.580 the most
00:21:11.140 and who were the less
00:21:12.520 at risk
00:21:13.240 are now
00:21:14.980 politically intervening
00:21:17.620 and expressing
00:21:18.240 their frustration
00:21:19.060 at a certain extent
00:21:20.080 and that also explains
00:21:22.300 why we're particularly
00:21:24.180 popular among parents
00:21:25.920 of young kids
00:21:26.720 compared to seniors.
00:21:28.920 So it's a
00:21:29.540 for a guy like you
00:21:31.400 who likes to analyse
00:21:32.140 what's going on
00:21:32.900 in societies
00:21:33.500 I think Quebec
00:21:34.200 is an interesting case
00:21:35.640 because we had
00:21:37.200 in North America
00:21:38.080 we were the most
00:21:39.000 locked down society
00:21:40.040 right?
00:21:40.480 There's nowhere else
00:21:41.520 in the continent
00:21:42.260 where restaurants
00:21:43.300 were shut down
00:21:44.240 as long as they were here
00:21:45.500 where even the
00:21:46.400 construction industry
00:21:47.460 was shut down
00:21:48.300 where even
00:21:49.180 we had passports
00:21:51.040 the longest time
00:21:52.140 to show passports
00:21:53.240 vaccine passports
00:21:54.200 to get in restaurants
00:21:56.520 or bars
00:21:57.180 or gyms
00:21:57.820 where we had
00:22:00.580 the carefew
00:22:01.680 the longest carefew
00:22:03.360 the most severe carefew
00:22:04.640 50,000 Quebecers
00:22:06.760 got caught
00:22:08.980 by the police
00:22:09.800 were either arrested
00:22:10.940 or given tickets
00:22:12.500 for $1,500
00:22:13.840 each on average
00:22:15.680 so I mean
00:22:16.580 we went through
00:22:17.220 a very very
00:22:18.060 strong period
00:22:19.600 the government
00:22:20.040 was the most severe
00:22:22.320 at many extent
00:22:23.660 and so it's probably
00:22:25.380 having a biggest
00:22:26.220 political impact
00:22:27.080 so it's not surprising
00:22:28.080 that you see
00:22:29.120 a political leader
00:22:29.920 like me
00:22:30.440 raising as quickly
00:22:31.720 as we did
00:22:32.420 over the last year
00:22:33.820 because you know
00:22:35.060 the government
00:22:35.540 went way way
00:22:36.420 very far
00:22:37.160 with the authority
00:22:39.040 and now there's
00:22:40.280 kind of a counterbalance
00:22:41.360 of people
00:22:41.880 who are looking
00:22:42.480 for a politician
00:22:43.780 that respects much more
00:22:45.140 their civic rights
00:22:46.140 and their individual freedoms
00:22:47.780 so it's a counterbalance
00:22:50.320 I think we are
00:22:51.100 and I want to also
00:22:52.580 to point out one thing
00:22:53.600 because that may be
00:22:55.180 of interest to everybody
00:22:56.060 as well
00:22:56.580 here in Quebec
00:22:57.540 you know
00:22:58.360 we have never seen
00:22:59.440 a political party
00:23:00.440 raising as quickly
00:23:01.900 as the Conservative Party
00:23:03.120 has over the last year
00:23:04.680 when I decided
00:23:06.520 to run for the leadership
00:23:07.700 of the party
00:23:08.320 less than two years ago
00:23:09.600 there were 500 members
00:23:11.260 in the party
00:23:11.780 as we speak
00:23:12.880 we have 60,000 members
00:23:14.580 we're by far
00:23:15.280 the largest party
00:23:16.380 in terms of membership
00:23:18.020 we went from 1%
00:23:19.780 in the polls
00:23:20.600 to somewhere
00:23:21.680 between 15 and 20%
00:23:24.200 right now
00:23:24.940 and we are the party
00:23:27.280 that has the largest
00:23:28.120 amount of donors
00:23:29.060 in Quebec this year
00:23:30.200 we're now represented
00:23:31.140 at the National Assembly
00:23:32.220 because I convinced
00:23:33.480 one of the members
00:23:34.140 of the CAC
00:23:34.680 to cross the floor
00:23:36.020 and join us
00:23:36.700 we're going to participate
00:23:37.980 in the leaders debate
00:23:39.100 I mean
00:23:39.880 we're going up
00:23:41.260 very very quickly
00:23:42.260 and we've never seen that
00:23:44.380 usually for a political party
00:23:46.320 it takes a few elections
00:23:47.420 to reach the point
00:23:49.360 where we're at right now
00:23:50.420 for us
00:23:51.100 it took us a year
00:23:52.000 and when you spoke
00:23:53.020 about the media
00:23:53.780 the impact of the media
00:23:54.980 I just want to underline
00:23:56.980 that during my leadership race
00:23:58.680 between November 2020
00:24:00.780 and April 2021
00:24:02.880 that I got one single article
00:24:05.740 in the Main Street newspaper
00:24:07.420 a daily paper in Quebec
00:24:08.720 it was in Le Devoir
00:24:09.620 when José Verner
00:24:10.480 a senator
00:24:11.040 decided to support me
00:24:14.180 and become the president
00:24:15.120 of my leadership race
00:24:16.420 and Le Devoir wrote an article
00:24:18.580 which is not the main
00:24:19.520 daily paper
00:24:20.340 and that was the only article
00:24:22.420 and at the end
00:24:23.100 of the leadership race
00:24:24.060 I had 15,000 members
00:24:26.220 I had more members
00:24:27.220 than the governing party
00:24:28.360 of the Premier of Quebec
00:24:29.840 and not one single other media
00:24:32.360 did talk about us
00:24:33.400 they didn't even acknowledge
00:24:34.440 our existence
00:24:35.160 so it shows the shift
00:24:37.100 and it explains
00:24:38.100 why people like you
00:24:39.080 are more popular
00:24:40.000 than complete networks now
00:24:41.620 and it explains
00:24:43.740 the difference
00:24:44.940 and also the generational clash
00:24:48.480 at a certain extent
00:24:49.460 in terms of media
00:24:50.940 Right, right, right
00:24:52.420 Well I should also
00:24:53.520 point out for the listeners
00:24:54.920 so I know Quebec
00:24:56.580 reasonably well
00:24:57.460 because I lived in Montreal
00:24:58.660 from 1985 to 1993
00:25:01.440 and I loved Montreal
00:25:03.060 and for all of you
00:25:03.980 who are listening
00:25:04.540 especially in North America
00:25:06.060 where it's easy
00:25:06.700 there is no better place
00:25:08.700 on the North American continent
00:25:10.220 to visit in many ways
00:25:12.020 if you're interested
00:25:12.800 in an urban holiday
00:25:13.860 than Montreal
00:25:14.480 Montreal is a great city
00:25:16.180 and I say that
00:25:18.240 despite the fact
00:25:21.000 that the province
00:25:22.200 that I grew up in
00:25:23.320 Alberta
00:25:23.860 is in many ways
00:25:26.020 the most
00:25:27.460 it has the most
00:25:29.160 fractious relationship
00:25:30.420 in many ways
00:25:31.180 with Quebec
00:25:31.780 partly because
00:25:33.540 Alberta is
00:25:34.500 very English
00:25:36.020 in its linguistic
00:25:37.240 traditions
00:25:38.200 I took French
00:25:39.140 in school
00:25:39.960 throughout my entire life
00:25:41.260 but
00:25:41.480 no one in Alberta
00:25:43.240 speaks French
00:25:43.900 to speak of
00:25:44.500 and it's very difficult
00:25:45.180 to pick up a language
00:25:46.160 when even your teachers
00:25:47.560 can't really speak it
00:25:49.240 and there's no
00:25:50.020 use of it in public
00:25:51.620 I moved to Montreal
00:25:53.080 when
00:25:54.380 the separatist movement
00:25:56.120 was really quite strong
00:25:58.020 and I moved there
00:25:59.100 with my wife
00:26:00.420 who had a very difficult time
00:26:02.100 obtaining employment
00:26:03.120 although she could speak French
00:26:04.740 reasonably well
00:26:05.600 she was Anglophone
00:26:06.820 and there were
00:26:07.680 real obstacles
00:26:08.480 in her path
00:26:09.260 I went to an English university
00:26:11.140 and so that
00:26:11.800 protected me
00:26:12.720 in some sense
00:26:13.320 from my linguistic
00:26:14.140 the consequences
00:26:15.260 of my linguistic ignorance
00:26:16.500 but
00:26:17.160 I loved Montreal
00:26:18.780 and although
00:26:20.000 I was not very happy
00:26:21.460 in some sense
00:26:22.400 being a Westerner
00:26:23.220 about Quebec nationalism
00:26:24.520 or Quebec separatism
00:26:25.840 in particular
00:26:26.360 one of the things
00:26:27.380 I did understand
00:26:28.300 very rapidly
00:26:29.000 was that
00:26:29.560 part of this
00:26:30.700 stunning charm
00:26:31.620 of Montreal
00:26:32.200 and part of what
00:26:33.100 makes it unique
00:26:33.920 was a consequence
00:26:35.800 of the very real
00:26:37.800 barriers
00:26:38.380 that those
00:26:39.560 who were determined
00:26:40.360 to protect
00:26:41.080 Quebec culture
00:26:42.000 had erected
00:26:43.480 around the
00:26:44.640 local institutions
00:26:46.460 in Quebec
00:26:47.920 and so one of the things
00:26:49.060 that's very interesting
00:26:49.880 about Montreal
00:26:50.540 downtown
00:26:51.040 it's a very walkable city
00:26:52.860 by the way
00:26:53.240 it has great restaurants
00:26:54.240 and great bars
00:26:56.060 and
00:26:56.640 an unbelievably
00:26:58.600 vibrant
00:26:59.600 and safe
00:27:00.480 and dynamic
00:27:01.300 and interesting
00:27:02.140 and creative
00:27:02.840 street life
00:27:03.740 and the
00:27:04.920 Montreal municipal
00:27:05.940 authorities
00:27:06.440 have done a lovely job
00:27:07.540 of regenerating
00:27:08.300 the old city
00:27:08.940 and the old port
00:27:09.780 looks great
00:27:10.480 and Montreal
00:27:11.620 is just a wonderful city
00:27:12.940 and because
00:27:14.680 of the barriers
00:27:16.160 to
00:27:16.720 Anglophone dominance
00:27:18.360 that's the
00:27:19.180 Canadian word
00:27:20.120 for English dominance
00:27:21.100 let's say
00:27:21.720 the city never
00:27:23.680 became homogenized
00:27:24.860 in its corporate culture
00:27:26.480 and there were
00:27:27.000 a tremendous
00:27:27.760 proliferation
00:27:28.960 of local businesses
00:27:30.140 and that
00:27:31.160 they all had
00:27:31.820 all the charm
00:27:32.540 of local businesses
00:27:33.360 so they weren't
00:27:34.080 chains of restaurants
00:27:35.260 that were
00:27:35.820 exactly the same
00:27:37.060 as restaurants
00:27:37.600 everywhere else
00:27:38.440 and so
00:27:39.700 despite the fact
00:27:41.260 that these barriers
00:27:42.620 linguistic barriers
00:27:44.980 made life
00:27:45.880 in some ways
00:27:46.800 more difficult
00:27:47.360 for me personally
00:27:48.380 as an English speaker
00:27:49.680 and despite the fact
00:27:51.000 that I was somewhat
00:27:51.840 irritated about the fact
00:27:53.140 that the English
00:27:54.660 had been routed
00:27:55.860 out of Quebec
00:27:56.420 in some fundamental way
00:27:57.860 and that the relationship
00:28:00.180 between Alberta
00:28:01.000 and Quebec
00:28:01.500 was fractious
00:28:02.300 I loved Montreal
00:28:03.700 and every time
00:28:04.400 I go back there
00:28:05.160 I'm thrilled
00:28:06.300 to be there
00:28:06.880 it really is
00:28:07.720 a remarkably
00:28:08.760 wonderful city
00:28:09.560 and so
00:28:09.940 it begs the question
00:28:11.420 you know
00:28:11.740 how do you
00:28:13.260 preserve the local
00:28:14.680 while maintaining
00:28:16.240 integration
00:28:16.960 with the
00:28:17.820 superordinate
00:28:19.120 and we have that
00:28:19.960 problem in the world
00:28:20.680 right now
00:28:21.220 because the world
00:28:22.040 is increasingly
00:28:22.700 international
00:28:23.740 in some real sense
00:28:24.860 there's a real
00:28:26.200 utility
00:28:27.500 in preserving
00:28:28.220 local culture
00:28:29.060 and
00:28:29.400 at the town level
00:28:31.380 at the province level
00:28:32.560 at the state level
00:28:34.480 at the national level
00:28:35.700 to preserve
00:28:36.640 the autonomy
00:28:38.600 and unique charms
00:28:40.860 of each of those levels
00:28:42.000 but also to integrate
00:28:43.340 the whole
00:28:44.200 into a harmonious union
00:28:45.640 and all of us
00:28:46.640 are struggling
00:28:47.080 with that
00:28:47.560 in a major way
00:28:48.340 and Canada
00:28:48.880 struggles with that
00:28:49.800 internally
00:28:50.300 in a way
00:28:51.060 in some sense
00:28:51.680 that mirrors
00:28:52.140 the situation
00:28:52.840 in the entire world
00:28:53.840 and so that also
00:28:54.940 complicates
00:28:55.560 the political landscape
00:28:56.520 and so
00:28:57.660 now
00:28:58.300 having said that
00:28:59.460 you also said that
00:29:01.000 so Quebec
00:29:04.980 is also this
00:29:05.720 very interesting
00:29:06.480 contrast
00:29:07.120 because
00:29:08.360 Montreal is a
00:29:10.020 very free city
00:29:11.080 people
00:29:12.980 pursue their own
00:29:14.260 artistic interests
00:29:15.140 it has a very
00:29:15.840 dynamic
00:29:16.400 street life
00:29:17.720 people
00:29:18.840 people who live
00:29:20.200 in Montreal
00:29:20.680 live there
00:29:21.940 it isn't
00:29:22.700 a city that feels
00:29:23.740 like it's made up
00:29:24.520 of people who
00:29:25.140 move there
00:29:25.740 and
00:29:26.600 it's a very
00:29:27.700 free culture
00:29:28.340 but Quebec
00:29:29.420 also has this
00:29:30.440 other element
00:29:31.100 which exists
00:29:32.060 in paradoxical
00:29:32.900 juxtaposition
00:29:33.680 which is in some
00:29:35.120 ways
00:29:35.480 more authoritarian
00:29:36.720 in its proclivity
00:29:38.940 than any other
00:29:39.700 jurisdiction in Canada
00:29:40.940 I really saw that
00:29:41.880 when I interacted
00:29:43.040 with the government
00:29:44.480 at the municipal
00:29:45.800 level in Quebec
00:29:46.680 which was also
00:29:47.620 often breeding
00:29:48.540 all sorts of
00:29:49.520 regulations
00:29:49.960 that were just
00:29:50.560 absolutely unreasonable
00:29:51.700 and that was hard
00:29:52.280 to negotiate with
00:29:53.100 and you said that
00:29:53.840 Quebec
00:29:54.220 like France
00:29:55.480 had implemented
00:29:57.280 extremely
00:29:58.180 stringent
00:29:59.600 COVID lockdowns
00:30:01.060 which is so much
00:30:01.940 at odds
00:30:02.480 with the spirit
00:30:03.140 of a city
00:30:03.600 like Montreal
00:30:04.640 and you also
00:30:05.520 pointed out
00:30:06.040 that that's
00:30:06.520 bred a
00:30:07.400 desire for
00:30:09.060 would you say
00:30:09.880 a desire for
00:30:10.600 the more
00:30:10.920 libertarian
00:30:11.760 kind of
00:30:12.300 conservatism
00:30:13.080 that
00:30:13.340 if I've got
00:30:14.520 that right
00:30:14.920 that you represent
00:30:15.680 and would like
00:30:16.280 to make a case
00:30:16.900 for
00:30:17.140 yeah the
00:30:17.780 well you have
00:30:18.420 to understand
00:30:18.880 that as you
00:30:19.880 rightly pointed
00:30:20.420 out earlier
00:30:20.980 as well
00:30:21.500 when we talked
00:30:22.100 about the fact
00:30:22.780 that the
00:30:23.120 religious factor
00:30:24.040 was melting
00:30:25.760 down since the
00:30:26.580 60s
00:30:27.020 social conservatism
00:30:28.800 in Quebec
00:30:29.300 is almost
00:30:30.560 inexistent
00:30:31.320 like you know
00:30:32.180 I'm the first
00:30:34.420 openly gay
00:30:35.520 leader of a
00:30:37.140 conservative party
00:30:38.140 in Canada's
00:30:38.980 history
00:30:39.280 provincial or
00:30:40.100 federal
00:30:40.480 so I mean
00:30:42.420 that's
00:30:42.840 and it's not a
00:30:43.540 surprise that it's
00:30:44.260 happening here in
00:30:45.120 Quebec
00:30:45.360 because social
00:30:46.000 conservatism
00:30:46.720 is not part of
00:30:47.880 the coalition of
00:30:48.660 conservatives
00:30:49.240 that we are
00:30:50.500 we have fiscal
00:30:51.180 conservatives
00:30:51.780 and more
00:30:52.320 libertarian
00:30:52.940 conservatives
00:30:53.480 but there's no
00:30:55.020 there's not
00:30:55.620 we're very few
00:30:56.460 social conservatives
00:30:57.860 do you want to
00:30:58.660 outline the
00:30:59.180 difference between
00:30:59.900 those so that
00:31:00.520 everybody who's
00:31:01.160 listening understands
00:31:02.080 so you said
00:31:02.800 social fiscal
00:31:04.200 and libertarian
00:31:05.140 it isn't obvious
00:31:06.900 to people what
00:31:07.600 the differentiation
00:31:08.280 between the
00:31:09.080 various forms of
00:31:09.860 conservatism is
00:31:10.720 especially because
00:31:11.360 the legacy media
00:31:12.140 almost never talks
00:31:13.020 about it so
00:31:13.580 fiscal conservatism
00:31:15.640 is people who
00:31:16.520 want lower taxes
00:31:17.480 smaller state
00:31:18.680 you know
00:31:19.740 so that's
00:31:20.860 generally speaking
00:31:21.800 how we define
00:31:23.060 fiscal conservatives
00:31:24.320 social conservatives
00:31:26.380 are usually more
00:31:27.800 towards moral issues
00:31:29.580 so it's more
00:31:31.220 you know
00:31:32.160 gay rights
00:31:32.920 or abortion
00:31:33.660 or all those
00:31:35.220 hot issues
00:31:36.120 that we hear a lot
00:31:37.020 and the media
00:31:37.940 talks about
00:31:38.680 a lot about that
00:31:39.900 normally when they
00:31:40.740 talk about conservatives
00:31:41.760 and the third one
00:31:43.440 is the libertarian
00:31:44.320 it's the individual
00:31:45.820 rights
00:31:46.420 the respect
00:31:47.360 of civic rights
00:31:50.100 of individual
00:31:51.080 freedoms
00:31:51.660 so that's more
00:31:52.640 the aspect
00:31:55.000 the part
00:31:56.440 that I'm in
00:31:57.360 but you know
00:31:58.340 as a leader
00:31:59.020 you have to be
00:31:59.800 representing
00:32:00.760 all the wings
00:32:02.220 within your party
00:32:03.140 but there's
00:32:05.700 really three
00:32:06.440 I see three main
00:32:08.020 kind of conservatives
00:32:10.720 in Canada
00:32:12.040 and in Quebec
00:32:12.820 we only have two
00:32:13.840 out of the three
00:32:14.520 that's what I wanted
00:32:15.300 to point it out
00:32:16.000 and so it might be
00:32:18.200 a little bit different
00:32:18.860 than elsewhere
00:32:19.360 because even if
00:32:21.620 it's a contradiction
00:32:22.500 for many people
00:32:23.320 because they recall
00:32:24.240 Quebec before
00:32:25.060 pre-1960
00:32:26.040 which was the most
00:32:26.880 religious society
00:32:27.920 with a lot of kids
00:32:29.200 for everyone
00:32:29.760 and we went
00:32:31.860 from one side
00:32:33.880 to the other
00:32:34.460 completely
00:32:34.980 and now
00:32:35.480 the religious practices
00:32:37.000 here are much lower
00:32:38.260 and especially
00:32:39.440 among the youth
00:32:40.180 and that's why
00:32:41.080 our voters
00:32:42.160 are even younger
00:32:43.020 so it's a complete
00:32:44.840 shift as well
00:32:46.640 so the conservative
00:32:48.060 movement in Quebec
00:32:48.860 is different
00:32:49.540 and there's a
00:32:50.280 nationalist element
00:32:51.720 as well
00:32:52.300 that's probably not
00:32:53.160 existent elsewhere
00:32:54.860 in Canada
00:32:55.480 of people who want
00:32:57.240 to promote
00:32:57.660 and protect French
00:32:58.560 and our culture
00:32:59.520 and our uniqueness
00:33:00.280 because that's also
00:33:02.520 conserving
00:33:03.200 where we're from
00:33:04.680 and our roots
00:33:05.280 and our heritage
00:33:06.000 so what is it
00:33:08.400 that you're doing
00:33:09.140 or the conservative
00:33:10.080 party is doing
00:33:11.120 in Quebec
00:33:11.960 specifically
00:33:13.460 apart from
00:33:14.440 the reaction
00:33:15.900 against the
00:33:16.860 authoritarian
00:33:17.520 clampdowns
00:33:18.680 justified
00:33:19.720 hypothetically
00:33:20.540 by COVID
00:33:21.220 what do you think
00:33:22.540 that you're doing
00:33:23.580 that's working
00:33:24.940 let me give you
00:33:27.140 an example
00:33:27.720 one of the things
00:33:28.480 I found
00:33:29.040 as I've toured
00:33:29.880 around
00:33:30.320 and I suppose
00:33:31.740 making a case
00:33:32.520 at least for certain
00:33:33.540 conservative virtues
00:33:34.440 is that people
00:33:36.080 particularly young people
00:33:37.720 seem to respond
00:33:39.120 very well
00:33:39.900 to the idea
00:33:40.740 that there is
00:33:42.540 an intrinsic meaning
00:33:43.640 in life
00:33:44.560 and that intrinsic meaning
00:33:45.860 is not to be found
00:33:47.800 in the hedonistic
00:33:50.500 limitless freedom
00:33:52.160 that's characteristic
00:33:53.340 of an impulsive life
00:33:55.200 but more likely
00:33:56.180 to be found
00:33:56.820 especially under
00:33:57.580 conditions of duress
00:33:58.860 as a consequence
00:34:01.640 of adopting
00:34:02.480 the responsibility
00:34:04.340 of a mature life
00:34:06.960 and so that would be
00:34:08.160 well
00:34:09.080 existing
00:34:10.020 to some degree
00:34:11.360 in service
00:34:11.960 for other people
00:34:12.840 especially the people
00:34:13.900 that you love
00:34:14.660 in your family
00:34:15.520 accepting responsibility
00:34:17.260 for a marriage
00:34:18.900 and a long-term relationship
00:34:20.140 and accepting responsibility
00:34:22.980 welcoming it
00:34:23.780 for kids
00:34:24.780 and taking care
00:34:25.820 of your extended family
00:34:27.620 and serving your community
00:34:29.020 and this is all something
00:34:30.560 that conservatives
00:34:31.300 can really promote
00:34:32.620 and I think there's
00:34:33.360 an unbelievable hunger
00:34:34.420 for it
00:34:34.800 because one of the things
00:34:35.780 I've noticed
00:34:36.260 and I have discussed
00:34:37.040 this publicly a lot
00:34:38.000 I pay a lot of attention
00:34:39.440 to my audiences
00:34:40.220 and everywhere I go
00:34:42.080 in the world
00:34:42.700 if I make a case
00:34:45.520 for the nexus
00:34:47.240 let's say
00:34:47.820 between suffering
00:34:48.960 which is inevitable
00:34:49.880 and the meaning
00:34:51.960 that emerges
00:34:53.220 out of the voluntary
00:34:54.200 adoption of responsibility
00:34:55.760 everyone
00:34:56.900 falls silent
00:34:58.820 and that happens
00:35:00.000 all the time
00:35:01.100 and my sense
00:35:02.660 of that is
00:35:03.260 and this is part
00:35:03.960 of the reason
00:35:04.420 why I think
00:35:05.020 there's a conservative
00:35:05.800 opportunity
00:35:06.560 that's beckoning
00:35:07.440 in a major way
00:35:08.260 that you might be
00:35:09.060 tapping into
00:35:09.700 is that
00:35:10.180 what conservatives
00:35:11.460 have to offer
00:35:12.280 young people
00:35:13.120 and that's the first time
00:35:14.360 I've ever seen this
00:35:15.120 really be the case
00:35:15.980 is
00:35:16.320 the meaningful existence
00:35:18.700 that characterizes
00:35:20.440 it's so absurd
00:35:22.420 that it has to be said
00:35:23.420 that characterizes
00:35:24.560 genuine maturation
00:35:25.820 and sacrifice
00:35:26.660 on behalf of others
00:35:27.860 like as a real
00:35:28.720 viable pathway forward
00:35:30.840 existentially
00:35:31.780 and psychologically
00:35:32.580 to have
00:35:33.220 the kind of life
00:35:34.320 that enables you
00:35:35.580 to not be bitter
00:35:36.620 in the face of catastrophe
00:35:38.060 and so
00:35:38.680 now
00:35:39.700 it's a paradoxical thing
00:35:41.580 right
00:35:41.800 because apparently
00:35:42.560 what you're offering
00:35:43.360 on the libertarian side
00:35:44.540 is something like
00:35:45.160 freedom from
00:35:45.900 authoritarian constraint
00:35:47.200 that's an odd thing
00:35:48.760 in some sense
00:35:49.540 for a conservative
00:35:50.280 to be offering
00:35:51.120 but do you see
00:35:52.320 why is it that
00:35:54.440 what you're selling
00:35:56.940 so to speak
00:35:57.860 what you're promoting
00:35:59.280 is resonating
00:36:00.900 deeply among
00:36:02.460 younger people
00:36:03.660 in Quebec
00:36:04.120 and how do you
00:36:05.540 conceptualize that
00:36:06.560 from the perspective
00:36:07.560 of the development
00:36:08.420 let's say
00:36:08.840 of a political vision
00:36:09.780 which is something
00:36:10.780 that conservatives
00:36:11.440 tend to struggle to do
00:36:12.760 we have to understand
00:36:14.280 that historically
00:36:15.180 because we were stuck
00:36:16.360 in the old debate
00:36:17.160 in the old constitutional
00:36:18.180 fights and feuds
00:36:19.440 almost all the political parties
00:36:22.580 in Quebec
00:36:23.140 were more center left
00:36:24.560 it was all
00:36:25.400 they were all social democrats
00:36:26.820 and they were all
00:36:28.140 in favor of the nanny state
00:36:29.480 and that's why
00:36:30.100 in Quebec
00:36:30.580 we had
00:36:31.040 you know
00:36:31.660 a bigger state
00:36:33.100 the state intervention
00:36:34.140 was much stronger
00:36:35.160 than elsewhere
00:36:36.320 and even at the federal level
00:36:38.040 we used to vote
00:36:39.360 more liberal
00:36:40.040 and we
00:36:41.620 you know
00:36:42.200 it's always been
00:36:43.420 there was kind of
00:36:43.860 a consensus
00:36:44.400 on that side
00:36:45.300 and now that
00:36:46.460 that debate
00:36:47.940 is over
00:36:48.680 there's a new one
00:36:49.880 that is emerging
00:36:50.540 and of course
00:36:51.580 the fact that it's new
00:36:53.080 and the fact that it's fresh
00:36:54.120 and the fact that it's different
00:36:55.240 is attracting
00:36:55.820 already a younger crowd
00:36:57.760 because
00:36:58.120 you're not
00:36:59.440 you're not scaring them off
00:37:00.460 they love change
00:37:01.360 but there's also
00:37:02.480 the fact that
00:37:03.540 I do believe
00:37:04.960 that they're
00:37:05.540 you know
00:37:05.840 because of the social media
00:37:07.060 because of the new world
00:37:08.280 that we're in
00:37:08.880 they're much more open
00:37:10.160 towards the world
00:37:11.920 if I could say so
00:37:12.980 and they
00:37:14.300 that's something
00:37:15.600 you know
00:37:16.000 they want to be part
00:37:17.180 of something also larger
00:37:18.440 and for that
00:37:20.520 you need a little bit
00:37:21.160 more freedom
00:37:21.700 and you don't want to be
00:37:22.860 just limited to Quebec
00:37:24.040 and with the state intervention
00:37:26.420 everything is limited
00:37:27.260 to Quebec
00:37:27.760 everything is
00:37:28.460 so there's a vision
00:37:29.980 of looking outside
00:37:31.220 of the box
00:37:31.820 I think that helps out
00:37:33.060 a lot
00:37:33.580 the fact also
00:37:35.720 and I'm back
00:37:37.000 to what happened
00:37:37.720 over the last two years
00:37:38.740 who suffered the most
00:37:40.180 during those days
00:37:41.020 you know
00:37:41.320 you and I probably
00:37:42.540 you know
00:37:42.880 I care if you at 8 or 9 p.m
00:37:44.740 it's not the end of the world
00:37:45.840 but if I were 20
00:37:46.940 if I recall what I was doing
00:37:48.580 after 9 p.m
00:37:49.480 when I was 20
00:37:50.220 the impact was much larger on me
00:37:52.360 and I think they took
00:37:53.740 much more than seniors
00:37:55.740 they realized
00:37:56.620 how the state could
00:37:58.300 you know
00:37:59.360 ruin your life
00:38:00.800 at a certain extent
00:38:01.760 when they're pushing
00:38:02.540 the envelope
00:38:03.040 a little bit too far
00:38:04.140 and so that woke up
00:38:06.360 a lot of people
00:38:07.300 a lot of people
00:38:08.120 who were completely apolitical
00:38:09.600 it's not necessarily
00:38:10.460 people coming from
00:38:11.280 other parties
00:38:11.800 that are joining us
00:38:12.600 it's people who used
00:38:13.900 to not even vote
00:38:14.880 and now they're
00:38:16.140 card carrying members
00:38:17.080 and they're volunteers
00:38:18.020 on our campaigns
00:38:18.920 are even running for us
00:38:20.100 so there's something
00:38:21.880 very very different
00:38:22.760 the paradigm also
00:38:23.880 has shift
00:38:24.960 on that side
00:38:26.340 and
00:38:26.740 it's a
00:38:28.080 you know
00:38:30.000 for many of us
00:38:30.860 we realize
00:38:31.740 that politics
00:38:32.660 could intervene
00:38:33.780 a lot in our life
00:38:34.760 and that's why
00:38:35.300 we're standing up
00:38:36.060 to say look
00:38:36.780 you know
00:38:37.460 stay out of it
00:38:38.360 there's limits
00:38:38.960 and that's why
00:38:39.820 even the slogan
00:38:40.540 of our campaign
00:38:41.300 is
00:38:41.560 libre chez nous
00:38:42.600 we didn't know
00:38:44.020 you can't translate
00:38:45.220 that perfectly
00:38:45.940 in English
00:38:46.500 but if we translate
00:38:47.420 it word to word
00:38:48.200 it's free at home
00:38:49.780 so it's
00:38:51.320 but
00:38:51.540 and
00:38:52.940 what it says
00:38:54.640 is that
00:38:55.100 you know
00:38:55.460 there's limits
00:38:56.340 I want to have
00:38:57.020 the control
00:38:57.400 we're talking about
00:38:58.160 your family
00:38:58.800 your unit
00:39:00.040 so even our slogan
00:39:01.400 refers to that
00:39:02.420 you know
00:39:03.300 like the state
00:39:03.980 cannot cross
00:39:04.980 my entrance door
00:39:06.540 without my will
00:39:07.520 and
00:39:08.640 the
00:39:09.380 so
00:39:10.260 you know
00:39:11.360 we want
00:39:11.720 we want to go back
00:39:12.560 to give
00:39:12.920 to be empowered
00:39:13.980 of what we're doing
00:39:15.260 within our own houses
00:39:16.880 and
00:39:17.740 it's
00:39:18.820 and that for
00:39:19.640 a new generation
00:39:20.760 is probably something
00:39:21.740 that is
00:39:22.300 you know
00:39:23.560 is more interesting
00:39:24.260 and
00:39:24.560 and even
00:39:25.120 worldwide right now
00:39:26.560 we see that
00:39:27.480 you know
00:39:28.100 our parents
00:39:29.100 were more
00:39:29.760 collectivist
00:39:30.800 in many ways
00:39:31.540 you know
00:39:31.840 like just
00:39:32.300 when you were talking
00:39:32.940 about the separatist movement
00:39:33.980 the separatist movement
00:39:34.960 at the base
00:39:36.360 was a collective movement
00:39:38.340 you know
00:39:38.620 it was
00:39:38.940 as francophones
00:39:40.360 as old
00:39:41.280 French Canadians
00:39:42.560 you know
00:39:44.000 it had something
00:39:44.620 very collective
00:39:45.340 and nowadays
00:39:46.780 because of social media
00:39:48.460 we're a little bit
00:39:49.040 more individualistic
00:39:50.140 I think
00:39:50.580 at many extent
00:39:51.340 and you know
00:39:52.260 we
00:39:52.480 yes we are
00:39:54.020 francophone
00:39:54.580 yes we are
00:39:55.120 Quebecers
00:39:55.700 but we're also
00:39:56.520 part of all sorts
00:39:57.340 of groups
00:39:57.820 and all sorts
00:39:58.440 of friends
00:39:58.880 all over the world
00:39:59.680 and we unite
00:40:00.620 based on different
00:40:01.640 issues
00:40:02.180 than just our
00:40:02.860 language
00:40:03.220 or our
00:40:03.700 geographic
00:40:04.220 limitations
00:40:05.720 so
00:40:06.640 the
00:40:07.000 it also has
00:40:08.740 an impact
00:40:09.380 on your
00:40:10.140 political reality
00:40:11.120 when it's time
00:40:11.680 to vote
00:40:12.100 so
00:40:12.360 well
00:40:13.000 you can imagine
00:40:14.120 that
00:40:14.460 okay
00:40:14.920 so
00:40:15.180 Quebec was united
00:40:16.580 in some sense
00:40:17.360 on the French side
00:40:18.180 under the Catholic Church
00:40:19.260 and then
00:40:19.700 that fragmented
00:40:21.000 and then
00:40:22.040 Quebec
00:40:22.500 attempted to unite
00:40:23.860 under the auspices
00:40:25.320 of a collective
00:40:26.360 nationalism
00:40:27.040 and so
00:40:28.260 and then
00:40:29.020 one of the consequences
00:40:30.280 was that
00:40:31.180 was that people
00:40:32.100 were turning
00:40:32.680 to a
00:40:33.340 powerful
00:40:34.160 and unified
00:40:34.760 state
00:40:35.200 as a vehicle
00:40:35.820 for their dreams
00:40:36.700 and that meant
00:40:37.880 that the state
00:40:38.460 became
00:40:38.960 as it became
00:40:40.180 the vehicle
00:40:40.900 for those dreams
00:40:41.540 it also became
00:40:42.400 more intrusive
00:40:44.160 in the ways
00:40:45.060 that would be
00:40:45.520 associated
00:40:46.100 with excess
00:40:47.080 let's say
00:40:48.000 pretensions
00:40:48.780 of benevolence
00:40:49.720 and then
00:40:50.560 you're making
00:40:51.060 the case
00:40:51.560 that
00:40:51.840 that became
00:40:53.520 the limitations
00:40:54.320 of that approach
00:40:55.080 became radically
00:40:55.920 evident to young
00:40:56.760 people
00:40:57.140 when the state
00:40:58.200 overplayed its hand
00:40:59.360 in the aftermath
00:41:00.420 of the COVID
00:41:01.240 pandemic
00:41:02.080 and locked them
00:41:03.280 down way too hard
00:41:04.400 and that woke up
00:41:05.680 a generation
00:41:06.320 of young people
00:41:07.100 to the dangers
00:41:08.040 of the overweening
00:41:09.380 state
00:41:09.820 even if that
00:41:11.020 was allied
00:41:11.580 with some
00:41:12.860 desirable expression
00:41:14.500 of nationalism
00:41:15.600 and group identity
00:41:16.640 does that seem
00:41:17.400 about right?
00:41:18.000 yeah that's about
00:41:18.860 that's about
00:41:19.420 how I feel
00:41:20.420 it's like
00:41:20.700 that's what we saw
00:41:21.580 over the last few months
00:41:22.860 the last few years
00:41:23.600 here in Quebec
00:41:24.060 it's
00:41:24.480 it happened elsewhere
00:41:25.980 as well
00:41:26.420 it's not
00:41:26.860 we're not unique
00:41:27.640 in the world
00:41:28.120 where it did happen
00:41:28.940 but I think here
00:41:29.960 it hit a little bit
00:41:30.820 faster and stronger
00:41:32.140 so the difference
00:41:34.340 and that's why
00:41:34.920 Quebec society
00:41:35.640 is an interesting case
00:41:36.640 because of that
00:41:37.460 because as I said
00:41:38.800 we usually react quickly
00:41:40.140 and more homogeneously
00:41:42.460 than elsewhere
00:41:43.220 and so from a
00:41:45.120 sociological perspective
00:41:46.420 that's what you can
00:41:48.260 observe right now
00:41:49.180 so on the policy side
00:41:51.800 so let's
00:41:53.160 there's a principle
00:41:54.120 that governs
00:41:55.160 conservative thinking
00:41:56.140 that's actually
00:41:56.860 derived from the
00:41:57.580 Catholic Church
00:41:58.200 and then even more
00:41:59.480 deeply derived
00:42:00.240 from an older
00:42:00.860 biblical tradition
00:42:01.820 based on the
00:42:02.580 Old Testament
00:42:03.160 Exodus story
00:42:04.200 that proper governance
00:42:06.960 proper distribution
00:42:09.040 of responsibility
00:42:10.000 should follow
00:42:10.600 the principle
00:42:11.200 of subsidiarity
00:42:13.020 and so the notion is
00:42:14.320 and Edmund Burke
00:42:15.380 developed this as well
00:42:16.300 it's a very good notion
00:42:17.420 and I think it's correct
00:42:18.540 it's one of the things
00:42:19.340 that attracts me
00:42:20.140 in some fundamental sense
00:42:21.580 to conservative thinking
00:42:22.620 which is that
00:42:23.320 well
00:42:24.660 you can imagine a state
00:42:25.980 where there's a single
00:42:27.180 executive
00:42:27.660 who has all the power
00:42:28.860 and the people have none
00:42:30.180 and then you'd think
00:42:31.200 of that as a tyranny
00:42:32.120 and that's obviously
00:42:32.960 not desirable
00:42:33.780 and then you might think
00:42:35.480 well what's the alternative
00:42:36.420 to a tyranny
00:42:37.480 and you might say
00:42:38.160 well direct democracy
00:42:39.760 where the voice
00:42:41.820 of the people
00:42:42.360 rules supreme
00:42:43.120 and the leader
00:42:43.640 must follow
00:42:44.660 the whims
00:42:46.100 of the crowd
00:42:47.360 but the problem
00:42:48.280 with that is
00:42:48.940 that it's not that easy
00:42:50.460 to figure out
00:42:50.980 what the crowd thinks
00:42:52.060 and the entire system
00:42:53.460 can fall prey
00:42:54.400 to suddenly arising
00:42:56.360 poorly organized
00:42:57.740 deviant impulses
00:42:59.200 and so
00:43:00.200 what the founders
00:43:01.800 of the American state
00:43:02.900 did
00:43:03.200 and many other states
00:43:04.340 as well
00:43:04.740 is set up a series
00:43:05.840 of intermediary
00:43:07.020 structures of power
00:43:08.400 let's say
00:43:09.960 and so you could
00:43:10.660 sort of list them up
00:43:11.520 hierarchically
00:43:12.300 there would be
00:43:12.900 the domain of
00:43:14.120 responsibility
00:43:14.720 of the individual
00:43:15.780 there'd be the domain
00:43:17.180 of the responsibility
00:43:18.160 of the married couple
00:43:19.940 of the family
00:43:21.340 of the local community
00:43:23.040 then the town
00:43:24.740 then the state
00:43:25.800 or province
00:43:26.900 and then the country
00:43:27.840 and then
00:43:28.820 each of those levels
00:43:31.020 would be
00:43:31.800 requested
00:43:33.880 to take
00:43:35.340 as much responsibility
00:43:36.460 for what they could
00:43:37.980 at the local level
00:43:39.300 and the relationship
00:43:40.940 between all those levels
00:43:42.260 should be governed
00:43:42.900 by the principle
00:43:43.660 that if it can be decided
00:43:45.540 at a lower level
00:43:47.400 then it should be
00:43:49.640 and the reason
00:43:51.520 that that's useful
00:43:52.340 is twofold
00:43:53.120 one is that
00:43:53.840 it's a really
00:43:54.920 good way
00:43:56.300 of distributing
00:43:57.200 of delegating
00:43:58.460 responsibility
00:43:59.160 it's very efficient
00:44:00.280 if everyone
00:44:01.040 plays their role
00:44:01.860 the second is
00:44:03.220 and this is another thing
00:44:04.360 the conservatives
00:44:04.920 really have on their side
00:44:06.280 you know
00:44:07.040 if the state
00:44:07.660 does everything
00:44:08.420 for you
00:44:09.060 let's say
00:44:09.760 well in a sense
00:44:11.440 you're secure
00:44:12.360 although you're not
00:44:14.320 because you're beholden
00:44:15.740 to the benevolence
00:44:17.520 of the state
00:44:18.180 and that can be
00:44:18.960 taken away arbitrarily
00:44:20.240 but the downside is
00:44:21.920 this is one of the downsides
00:44:24.500 of universal basic income proposals
00:44:26.180 it's like
00:44:26.680 well what the hell
00:44:27.740 is there left
00:44:28.320 for you to do
00:44:29.140 if the state
00:44:30.560 does everything
00:44:31.140 for you
00:44:31.880 well you're secure
00:44:33.940 but you're
00:44:35.020 what's your life then
00:44:36.300 you have no purpose
00:44:37.120 and if the purpose
00:44:38.400 of life
00:44:38.880 and this is another thing
00:44:39.820 that the more libertarian
00:44:40.860 conservatives
00:44:41.480 could be offering
00:44:42.300 is like
00:44:42.700 imagine that the purpose
00:44:43.940 of your life
00:44:44.520 isn't security
00:44:45.320 and satiation
00:44:46.240 because you're not
00:44:47.040 just an overgrown infant
00:44:48.680 imagine instead
00:44:50.480 that the purpose
00:44:51.120 of your life
00:44:51.680 is something like
00:44:52.580 responsible
00:44:54.620 productive
00:44:55.420 generous
00:44:56.300 adventure
00:44:57.260 and then the call
00:44:59.980 would be
00:45:00.520 make space
00:45:02.460 for people
00:45:02.920 to manifest that
00:45:03.980 in the particularities
00:45:05.800 of their own life
00:45:06.840 and then everyone
00:45:08.720 has a real part
00:45:09.660 to play
00:45:10.080 and no one
00:45:10.720 in some real sense
00:45:11.700 is subordinate
00:45:12.400 to anyone else
00:45:13.200 like there'd be
00:45:13.660 a hierarchical structure
00:45:15.240 and some people
00:45:15.920 like you
00:45:16.340 would be leading
00:45:17.080 at the more abstract
00:45:18.640 levels
00:45:19.340 but your power
00:45:20.740 would be
00:45:21.220 or your authority
00:45:22.120 and your responsibility
00:45:22.980 would be properly
00:45:24.080 delimited
00:45:24.880 and everything else
00:45:26.680 everybody else
00:45:27.420 was doing
00:45:27.860 all the way down
00:45:28.540 the hierarchy
00:45:29.100 right to the level
00:45:29.960 of running
00:45:30.900 their individual
00:45:31.600 enterprise
00:45:32.240 would in some sense
00:45:33.900 be just as meaningful
00:45:36.100 and just as crucial
00:45:37.880 and that strikes me
00:45:39.780 as an extraordinarily
00:45:40.640 useful vision
00:45:42.180 of governance
00:45:42.960 especially in the aftermath
00:45:44.380 of the COVID fiasco
00:45:45.820 and it's interesting
00:45:47.500 because that's something
00:45:48.960 that you're right
00:45:49.600 the conservatives
00:45:50.260 in Canada
00:45:51.000 have not exploited
00:45:52.180 as much as they could
00:45:53.300 because you're
00:45:54.600 you know
00:45:55.020 philosophically
00:45:55.820 we want power
00:45:57.040 to be the closest
00:45:57.960 to the citizen
00:45:58.800 as possible
00:45:59.520 we're supposed
00:46:00.340 to be the party
00:46:01.240 of decentralization
00:46:02.500 and especially
00:46:03.620 with the Quebec question
00:46:05.100 you know
00:46:07.160 the conservatives
00:46:07.940 should be the party
00:46:09.380 that is the closest
00:46:10.160 to the Quebec
00:46:10.860 aspiration traditionally
00:46:12.240 because one of the
00:46:14.080 big problems
00:46:14.820 in Canada
00:46:15.340 was the one size
00:46:16.540 fits all
00:46:17.080 from Ottawa
00:46:17.720 and it didn't fit
00:46:19.260 in Quebec
00:46:19.640 because we were different
00:46:20.680 in many aspects
00:46:21.560 for all sorts
00:46:22.320 of linguistic
00:46:22.940 historical reasons
00:46:24.300 and so
00:46:25.820 many conservatives
00:46:27.260 that I know
00:46:27.900 in Ottawa
00:46:28.340 are the most
00:46:29.080 decentralist politicians
00:46:30.300 of them all
00:46:30.980 on the national stage
00:46:31.920 but unfortunately
00:46:32.860 conservatives
00:46:33.880 have never been
00:46:34.600 it's never been
00:46:35.080 a stronghold
00:46:35.720 for conservatism
00:46:36.620 in Quebec
00:46:37.040 well not for
00:46:38.340 like a century
00:46:39.040 but and it's
00:46:40.540 there's a
00:46:41.380 it should be
00:46:42.520 the opposite
00:46:42.980 and when you were
00:46:43.740 talking about Alberta
00:46:44.940 earlier on
00:46:45.660 because where you're
00:46:46.520 where you're from
00:46:47.120 originally
00:46:47.560 the Alberta
00:46:48.980 after Quebec
00:46:49.880 is the most
00:46:50.620 decentralist province
00:46:51.880 in Canada
00:46:52.420 and we should be
00:46:53.960 the strongest allies
00:46:55.380 but as you said
00:46:56.700 we're often
00:46:58.020 on opposite sides
00:47:00.260 because
00:47:00.920 for all sorts
00:47:02.040 of other reasons
00:47:02.920 but philosophically
00:47:04.060 in terms of
00:47:04.880 decentralization
00:47:05.740 and power
00:47:06.400 vis-a-vis citizen
00:47:07.760 we're the ones
00:47:09.380 who share
00:47:09.860 the similar view
00:47:11.440 like
00:47:11.700 and we should
00:47:12.620 always be
00:47:13.460 on the same side
00:47:14.160 and we should not
00:47:14.860 be a centralist
00:47:16.320 and look at Ottawa
00:47:17.620 and think
00:47:18.580 that they know best
00:47:19.460 so the
00:47:20.520 and that's what
00:47:21.900 I'm trying to
00:47:22.540 propose as well
00:47:23.440 I think it will be
00:47:24.240 important
00:47:24.620 if we can have
00:47:25.380 a real
00:47:25.880 conservative party
00:47:27.520 in Quebec
00:47:28.040 at the provincial level
00:47:29.700 and it's important
00:47:30.360 because Quebecers
00:47:31.340 unlike other Canadians
00:47:32.660 we do identify
00:47:33.960 ourselves
00:47:34.560 first and foremost
00:47:35.880 to our provincial
00:47:36.820 government
00:47:37.320 more than the federal
00:47:38.440 you know
00:47:39.000 the federal
00:47:39.360 it's like having
00:47:40.460 you know
00:47:40.860 our nationality
00:47:42.060 is Quebec
00:47:42.500 and our passport
00:47:44.000 is Canadian
00:47:44.640 so that's how
00:47:47.280 we define ourselves
00:47:48.320 and so
00:47:49.140 the most important
00:47:50.200 government for us
00:47:51.220 is our provincial
00:47:52.080 government
00:47:52.440 because you know
00:47:53.280 all the main things
00:47:54.380 education
00:47:54.920 health care
00:47:55.540 and all sorts
00:47:56.360 of things
00:47:56.680 it's provincial
00:47:57.340 the federal government
00:47:58.420 is managing
00:47:59.000 things that are
00:47:59.540 very far away
00:48:00.240 from us
00:48:00.620 international relations
00:48:01.720 and the army
00:48:02.520 and Canada Post
00:48:04.140 but that's how
00:48:04.760 we see it
00:48:05.320 like so
00:48:05.980 our sense of
00:48:07.960 community
00:48:08.320 is related
00:48:09.000 to the provincial
00:48:09.640 government
00:48:10.020 and in Alberta
00:48:10.680 after Quebec
00:48:11.380 it's the province
00:48:12.000 where they have
00:48:12.580 that as high
00:48:13.620 as we do
00:48:14.140 there's a strong
00:48:15.820 sentiment
00:48:16.340 of Alberta
00:48:17.680 first
00:48:18.180 and
00:48:18.920 so
00:48:20.700 if we have
00:48:21.420 a true
00:48:22.140 conservative
00:48:22.680 movement
00:48:23.120 in Quebec
00:48:23.540 that could last
00:48:24.740 not just for an election
00:48:25.780 but for a generation
00:48:26.740 or two
00:48:27.240 I think we're going
00:48:28.540 to see new
00:48:29.580 alliances
00:48:31.240 between
00:48:32.040 conservatives
00:48:33.520 in Quebec
00:48:34.140 and elsewhere
00:48:34.820 in Canada
00:48:35.360 and it could have
00:48:36.420 a huge impact
00:48:37.260 on the federal level
00:48:38.360 and as you said
00:48:40.160 the dominant party
00:48:41.420 historically
00:48:41.860 has been the liberals
00:48:42.740 but if we're able
00:48:43.880 to switch Quebec
00:48:44.720 which has always been
00:48:46.020 one of the reasons
00:48:47.060 why the liberals
00:48:47.880 were much more in power
00:48:48.900 than the conservatives
00:48:50.800 because the French
00:48:52.740 Canadian Catholics
00:48:53.820 used to vote more
00:48:55.020 for the liberals
00:48:55.780 historically
00:48:56.320 it was more
00:48:56.980 the Catholics
00:48:57.880 were voting
00:49:00.060 more liberal
00:49:00.700 and if that shifts
00:49:03.220 and if the decentralists
00:49:04.580 start to link together
00:49:06.220 in Canada
00:49:06.800 and those who want
00:49:07.720 to have
00:49:08.160 the power closest
00:49:09.940 to them
00:49:10.400 the subsidiarity
00:49:11.380 as you talked about
00:49:13.220 then it could
00:49:14.940 we're going to reshape
00:49:16.100 not just Quebec politics
00:49:17.400 but Canadian politics
00:49:18.660 all together
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00:50:25.820 well you could imagine
00:50:29.940 you could imagine
00:50:31.380 a vision
00:50:32.000 that
00:50:33.520 made the case
00:50:35.460 that
00:50:35.960 Quebec has
00:50:37.900 maintained
00:50:38.440 its distinct
00:50:39.280 and valuable
00:50:39.980 culture
00:50:40.520 particularly
00:50:42.000 reflected
00:50:42.680 I would say
00:50:43.200 in Montreal
00:50:43.680 although Quebec City
00:50:44.620 is also quite a remarkable
00:50:45.760 place
00:50:46.260 and I don't know
00:50:47.400 rural Quebec as well
00:50:48.400 that it's the principle
00:50:50.620 of local autonomy
00:50:51.880 that in some sense
00:50:52.980 has made that possible
00:50:54.560 and that actually
00:50:55.360 what's trying
00:50:56.420 to be protected
00:50:57.340 in some real sense
00:50:59.300 is that local autonomy
00:51:01.860 which would be
00:51:02.460 the special flavor
00:51:03.500 of well the small
00:51:05.000 business community
00:51:05.820 in Quebec
00:51:06.220 and the services
00:51:07.280 that it manages
00:51:08.040 and the street life
00:51:09.100 and the festivals
00:51:09.820 and the food culture
00:51:12.120 and the joie de vivre
00:51:13.640 which is definitely
00:51:14.540 present in Montreal
00:51:15.520 and the safety
00:51:16.660 of the streets
00:51:17.460 there's a lot of value
00:51:18.560 in that local culture
00:51:19.580 and what Quebec
00:51:20.880 Quebecois
00:51:21.660 presumed for the longest time
00:51:23.580 and maybe with some
00:51:24.720 justification
00:51:25.220 was that it was
00:51:26.040 necessary to centralize
00:51:27.540 under a powerful
00:51:28.780 provincial government
00:51:29.760 and a nationalist movement
00:51:31.000 to ensure autonomy
00:51:33.700 on the cultural side
00:51:35.360 but you could make
00:51:36.620 a strong case
00:51:37.360 I think
00:51:37.760 and this is the case
00:51:38.800 that you're outlining
00:51:39.580 that no
00:51:40.960 the long-term survival
00:51:43.180 of the uniqueness
00:51:44.940 of local
00:51:46.080 Francophone culture
00:51:47.740 is actually dependent
00:51:49.040 on the delivery
00:51:50.000 of maximal autonomy
00:51:51.340 to the citizenry
00:51:52.960 and the subsidiary institutions
00:51:54.720 and that would mean
00:51:55.980 that you could
00:51:56.520 as a conservative
00:51:57.500 you could make
00:51:58.100 a simultaneous call
00:51:59.280 to the nationalism
00:52:00.220 that's part of
00:52:01.080 the Quebec ethos
00:52:02.460 and this desire
00:52:03.820 for individual autonomy
00:52:05.040 that's emerging
00:52:05.860 in the aftermath
00:52:06.580 of let's say
00:52:07.740 the overreach
00:52:08.340 of the nanny state
00:52:09.300 that's a nice vision
00:52:10.740 it gives everyone
00:52:12.100 a place
00:52:12.680 and also a role
00:52:14.060 in living their life
00:52:16.320 and preserving
00:52:17.120 their cultural institutions
00:52:18.400 responsibly
00:52:19.360 at the same time
00:52:21.680 I don't believe
00:52:24.060 that the state
00:52:24.800 can impose
00:52:25.840 a language
00:52:26.520 or a way of life
00:52:27.680 it's each of us
00:52:29.220 who have to make
00:52:29.880 those decisions
00:52:30.640 and you know
00:52:32.140 if young
00:52:33.260 the young generation
00:52:34.300 let's say
00:52:34.760 like now
00:52:35.140 they don't want
00:52:35.600 to talk about separation
00:52:36.740 so even if you
00:52:38.080 wanted to push
00:52:38.840 it's not because
00:52:39.520 the Parti Québécois
00:52:40.280 is going to deliver
00:52:40.920 20 speeches a day
00:52:42.120 that everybody
00:52:43.100 is going to become
00:52:43.680 separatist
00:52:44.220 and it's going to
00:52:44.720 happen overnight
00:52:45.360 you can't do
00:52:47.760 those projects
00:52:48.580 if you have
00:52:49.560 that project
00:52:50.160 if you have
00:52:50.600 the youth
00:52:50.980 against you
00:52:51.500 against yourself
00:52:52.360 and you know
00:52:53.880 we have to make sure
00:52:55.240 that we bring it back
00:52:56.480 at an individual level
00:52:57.720 to make sure
00:52:58.640 that you know
00:52:59.320 we're promoting
00:53:00.540 the fact
00:53:01.160 that you should
00:53:02.640 speak French
00:53:03.320 you should be bilingual
00:53:04.240 and it's working
00:53:05.220 actually at many levels
00:53:08.140 Quebecers
00:53:09.080 Francophones
00:53:09.880 and Anglophones
00:53:10.740 have never been
00:53:11.480 as bilingual
00:53:12.200 as they are today
00:53:13.300 and you know
00:53:14.820 that's a richness
00:53:16.000 I mean
00:53:16.540 we're the most bilingual
00:53:17.760 I'm currently in Montreal
00:53:19.060 in the most bilingual
00:53:20.000 city in America
00:53:20.920 and I think
00:53:22.580 it should be a richness
00:53:23.400 but unfortunately
00:53:24.180 over the last decade
00:53:25.620 or half a century
00:53:26.460 it's been considered
00:53:27.840 a source of division
00:53:29.220 and fights
00:53:29.960 and that needs to change
00:53:32.720 we need to
00:53:33.680 and even if you say
00:53:35.300 I'm bilingual
00:53:36.020 it doesn't mean
00:53:36.700 that Quebec is bilingual
00:53:38.120 or the common language
00:53:39.160 or both languages
00:53:40.400 are equal
00:53:41.000 on the territory
00:53:41.980 of course
00:53:42.540 because we're
00:53:43.480 a small minority
00:53:44.960 we need to make sure
00:53:45.920 that the common language
00:53:46.920 remains French
00:53:47.860 but it doesn't mean
00:53:49.460 that at an individual
00:53:50.500 level
00:53:51.100 we cannot all be bilingual
00:53:52.420 and every parent
00:53:53.720 I know in Quebec
00:53:54.740 they all want their kids
00:53:55.960 to be bilingual
00:53:56.640 you know
00:53:56.920 my parents don't speak English
00:53:58.280 and my mom
00:54:00.380 was a school bus driver
00:54:01.860 and my father
00:54:02.960 was a sheet metal worker
00:54:05.440 hard working parents
00:54:07.560 perfect parents
00:54:08.560 but they didn't have
00:54:09.980 the opportunity
00:54:10.440 to learn English
00:54:11.360 and they sent me
00:54:12.240 to a kindergarten
00:54:13.180 in English
00:54:13.800 and they did
00:54:14.340 huge sacrifice
00:54:15.100 to make sure
00:54:16.660 that I was
00:54:18.100 I had better tools
00:54:19.380 in my toolbox
00:54:20.420 than they did
00:54:21.340 and I think
00:54:22.580 every single parent
00:54:23.600 wants that
00:54:24.360 and it was not
00:54:25.320 the state
00:54:25.820 that imposed that
00:54:26.620 to them
00:54:27.040 they made a decision
00:54:28.200 as good parents
00:54:29.440 like all good parents
00:54:30.980 do everywhere
00:54:31.720 and you want your kid
00:54:33.640 to do better
00:54:34.220 than yourself
00:54:34.980 and you should have
00:54:37.160 the freedom
00:54:37.700 and to do that
00:54:39.420 and the encouragement
00:54:40.380 and the space
00:54:41.620 to do that
00:54:42.280 because it is definitely
00:54:43.120 well you see
00:54:43.620 this is happening
00:54:44.240 in the US too
00:54:45.080 is that as the nanny state
00:54:47.680 and the radical leftist
00:54:49.760 incursion
00:54:50.580 into federal
00:54:52.100 and state institutions
00:54:54.680 proceeds apace
00:54:55.940 where that's hit
00:54:58.120 the most resistance
00:54:59.040 is on the issue
00:55:01.300 of parent rights
00:55:02.380 and people are pulling
00:55:03.960 their children
00:55:04.740 in the US
00:55:05.440 out of the public education system
00:55:08.280 at a remarkable rate
00:55:09.520 because people will accept
00:55:12.260 without protest
00:55:13.520 a fair bit of interference
00:55:15.140 with their lives
00:55:16.320 on behalf of a
00:55:17.500 hypothetically benevolent
00:55:18.840 but ultimately
00:55:19.980 totalitarian state
00:55:21.500 but they will not
00:55:23.020 accept
00:55:23.780 the
00:55:24.760 propaganda
00:55:27.340 campaigns
00:55:28.940 directed at their children
00:55:30.140 and so
00:55:30.820 the reason I'm saying that
00:55:32.040 isn't for a political reason
00:55:33.100 exactly
00:55:33.560 it's to point out
00:55:34.440 the logic of the principle
00:55:35.820 of subsidiarity
00:55:36.840 because
00:55:37.200 you should have parents
00:55:39.320 making decisions
00:55:40.500 for their children
00:55:41.400 precisely because
00:55:42.880 there's no one
00:55:44.220 who is going to care
00:55:45.200 for children
00:55:45.860 more than parents
00:55:47.000 exactly
00:55:47.520 and if the state
00:55:48.360 says it will
00:55:49.520 it's delusional
00:55:51.100 because
00:55:51.800 well how in the world
00:55:52.980 can an abstract organization
00:55:54.660 distant from
00:55:56.820 the children it's serving
00:55:58.540 unrelated to them
00:55:59.740 and not knowing
00:56:01.400 them personally
00:56:02.180 possibly care for them
00:56:04.580 in all their individual
00:56:05.560 particularity
00:56:06.520 as well as
00:56:07.420 biologically related
00:56:08.820 kin
00:56:09.260 who are immediately
00:56:10.280 living with them
00:56:11.380 I mean it's a preposterous
00:56:13.180 assumption
00:56:13.600 on all fronts
00:56:14.640 and people will
00:56:15.620 definitely rebel
00:56:16.540 against that
00:56:17.160 when their children
00:56:17.800 are threatened
00:56:18.420 so
00:56:19.520 let me turn
00:56:21.160 to a different issue
00:56:22.540 I'm also interested
00:56:25.000 and I think
00:56:26.060 this might be interesting
00:56:26.880 to our international
00:56:28.080 viewers
00:56:29.260 and listeners
00:56:30.020 now
00:56:31.420 Quebec has a very
00:56:33.180 unique political culture
00:56:34.220 and so does
00:56:35.340 your
00:56:35.700 party
00:56:36.680 provincially
00:56:38.220 now
00:56:39.020 when is the election
00:56:42.240 going to be held
00:56:42.860 in Quebec
00:56:43.220 that's the first question
00:56:44.180 October 3rd
00:56:45.700 okay
00:56:46.020 October 3rd
00:56:46.680 so you're in the run-up
00:56:47.640 to an election
00:56:48.260 now at the same time
00:56:50.000 as some of those
00:56:51.700 listening know
00:56:52.360 Canada is involved
00:56:54.080 in a leadership
00:56:54.980 race
00:56:55.620 for the leadership
00:56:56.640 of the Conservative Party
00:56:58.040 federally in Canada
00:56:59.100 so to become
00:56:59.920 Prime Minister
00:57:00.480 in Canada
00:57:01.020 you have to first
00:57:02.360 rise to head
00:57:03.820 a political party
00:57:05.100 that has a chance
00:57:05.920 of being elected
00:57:07.140 in a majority
00:57:08.460 of seats
00:57:09.020 and then
00:57:09.840 if that does happen
00:57:11.040 and you're the leader
00:57:11.920 of the party
00:57:12.400 you become Prime Minister
00:57:13.360 and at the moment
00:57:14.140 there are five candidates
00:57:16.140 on the leadership
00:57:18.200 front
00:57:18.920 for the federal
00:57:21.120 Conservatives
00:57:21.820 and I've interviewed
00:57:22.800 three of them
00:57:23.520 Pierre Polyev
00:57:24.520 Roman Barber
00:57:26.220 and Leslie Lewis
00:57:27.100 and I was quite impressed
00:57:28.520 with all three of them
00:57:29.320 they're quite different
00:57:30.560 as people
00:57:31.360 they're very different
00:57:32.420 in their backgrounds
00:57:33.320 but it seemed to me
00:57:35.800 like the adults
00:57:36.800 were in the room
00:57:37.600 fundamentally
00:57:38.440 and they all
00:57:39.340 had a certain degree
00:57:40.620 of expertise
00:57:41.220 and a fair degree
00:57:42.200 of moral integrity
00:57:43.260 Jean Charest's people
00:57:45.800 decided that I
00:57:47.460 that they wouldn't
00:57:49.600 talk to me
00:57:50.140 for one reason
00:57:50.900 or another
00:57:51.280 although I invited
00:57:52.980 them several times
00:57:54.560 and I haven't
00:57:56.380 been as successful
00:57:58.660 in my pursuit
00:57:59.520 of Scott Aitchison's people
00:58:01.180 and that really
00:58:02.460 has nothing to do
00:58:03.220 with him
00:58:03.560 and perhaps
00:58:04.000 little to do
00:58:04.560 with me
00:58:04.960 it's just been
00:58:05.720 circumstances
00:58:06.560 unfortunately
00:58:07.220 how do you
00:58:08.780 construe the
00:58:09.520 relationship
00:58:10.060 between your
00:58:11.140 party
00:58:12.140 provincially
00:58:14.100 and the
00:58:15.760 Conservative Party
00:58:17.460 federally
00:58:18.320 and the other
00:58:18.880 Conservative parties
00:58:19.720 in Canada
00:58:20.340 so let's start
00:58:21.340 with that
00:58:21.840 how do you think
00:58:22.700 that balance
00:58:23.380 should be
00:58:24.100 established
00:58:24.840 and what are you
00:58:25.640 hoping for
00:58:26.440 on the federal
00:58:27.540 Conservative front
00:58:28.600 in relationship
00:58:29.680 to your aspirations
00:58:30.660 on the provincial
00:58:31.760 Conservative front
00:58:33.220 well first off
00:58:34.640 you have to know
00:58:35.240 that we have
00:58:35.760 no organic links
00:58:36.800 like unlike
00:58:37.600 some other provinces
00:58:39.420 there's no link
00:58:40.440 we were two
00:58:41.560 completely separate
00:58:42.780 entities
00:58:43.260 of course we have
00:58:44.060 the exact same name
00:58:45.220 we're both
00:58:46.400 Conservatives
00:58:47.020 and we are
00:58:47.840 centre-right
00:58:48.940 we're you know
00:58:49.500 we were defined
00:58:50.420 on the same
00:58:51.020 on the political
00:58:51.560 spectrum
00:58:51.980 we're not far away
00:58:52.900 from each other
00:58:53.580 but there's no
00:58:54.900 direct links
00:58:55.700 that being said
00:58:56.600 for me the most
00:58:58.080 important part
00:58:59.020 as a Conservative
00:59:01.320 within Canada
00:59:02.560 is to build bridges
00:59:04.420 with other Conservative
00:59:05.740 parties provincially
00:59:06.980 first and foremost
00:59:08.460 because I'm a
00:59:09.100 Decentralist
00:59:09.720 I'm an Autonomist
00:59:10.620 and I do believe
00:59:11.880 that it's important
00:59:12.640 to reach out
00:59:13.660 to those people
00:59:14.320 I think we have
00:59:14.980 strong allies
00:59:15.740 that Quebec
00:59:16.500 has never exploited
00:59:17.380 because you know
00:59:18.300 when you're in
00:59:18.700 a separatist dynamic
00:59:19.840 where you have a party
00:59:21.040 that is a very
00:59:21.760 very Federalist party
00:59:22.940 like the Liberals
00:59:23.680 in Quebec have been
00:59:24.600 over the last few decades
00:59:26.140 and on the other hand
00:59:27.180 you have the Separatists
00:59:28.200 well the Separatists
00:59:29.160 don't want to work
00:59:30.000 with anyone in Canada
00:59:30.940 even those who would
00:59:31.880 like a little bit
00:59:32.520 of decentralization
00:59:33.420 to make sure
00:59:34.020 that they don't show
00:59:35.300 that Canada could work
00:59:36.420 you know
00:59:36.740 and on the other hand
00:59:39.300 the Federalists
00:59:40.420 you know
00:59:41.320 they want to be perceived
00:59:42.600 as pro-Canada
00:59:43.540 as much as they can
00:59:44.520 so the more centralists
00:59:45.800 they become
00:59:46.340 the better
00:59:46.840 so there was no room
00:59:49.440 for someone
00:59:50.380 who was trying
00:59:51.080 to build bridges
00:59:51.920 with provincial parties
00:59:53.280 to decentralize Canada
00:59:54.540 when we have
00:59:55.220 common goals
00:59:56.560 and that's
00:59:57.980 that's for me
00:59:58.720 where I want to go
00:59:59.660 politically speaking
01:00:00.680 who do you
01:00:01.340 who do you see as
01:00:02.540 okay so let's start
01:00:03.440 on the provincial front
01:00:04.340 so again
01:00:05.480 for the international
01:00:06.380 viewers
01:00:07.100 every Canada
01:00:08.780 is made up
01:00:09.300 of an assembly
01:00:09.940 of provinces
01:00:10.660 and
01:00:11.580 the political structure
01:00:13.880 at the federal level
01:00:14.780 tends to be
01:00:15.560 somewhat mirrored
01:00:16.740 at the provincial level
01:00:18.260 so there are
01:00:18.880 federal
01:00:19.420 conservative
01:00:20.040 liberal
01:00:20.500 and socialist parties
01:00:21.680 and there are
01:00:22.500 provincial
01:00:22.940 conservative
01:00:24.320 liberal
01:00:24.920 and socialist parties
01:00:26.160 and they're
01:00:27.080 either tightly
01:00:28.080 or loosely affiliated
01:00:29.120 in the manner
01:00:29.680 that Mr. Dwayne
01:00:31.480 just mentioned
01:00:32.720 you're interested
01:00:34.140 in coalition building
01:00:35.840 at the provincial level
01:00:37.400 on the conservative side
01:00:39.840 or with other
01:00:40.420 perhaps interested
01:00:41.900 welcoming partners
01:00:42.960 who do you see
01:00:44.400 across the political landscape
01:00:46.340 at the provincial level
01:00:47.700 in Canada
01:00:48.720 that you
01:00:50.000 would regard
01:00:51.040 as
01:00:51.580 reasonable
01:00:53.040 and probable allies
01:00:54.740 with whom
01:00:55.420 you could build
01:00:56.200 a tighter
01:00:57.560 confederation
01:00:58.940 I don't think
01:00:59.800 it's necessarily
01:01:00.440 just personalities
01:01:01.540 or it's also
01:01:03.120 provinces
01:01:04.160 because as we said
01:01:05.720 earlier on
01:01:06.340 you know
01:01:06.620 your home province
01:01:07.940 where you were born
01:01:09.540 in Alberta
01:01:10.140 it's always been
01:01:12.160 the province
01:01:13.380 that has been asking
01:01:14.280 for more power
01:01:15.220 from Ottawa
01:01:16.140 outside of Quebec
01:01:17.460 so they're natural
01:01:19.160 allies on that front
01:01:20.500 and it was true
01:01:21.340 even when René Lévesque
01:01:22.360 was there
01:01:22.740 an old
01:01:23.340 Quebec separatist premier
01:01:25.080 his best ally
01:01:26.400 was Peter Lougheed
01:01:27.480 at the time
01:01:28.040 the Alberta premier
01:01:29.640 of the time
01:01:30.760 and it's always
01:01:32.760 you know
01:01:33.240 when you look at it
01:01:34.740 objectively
01:01:35.360 Alberta
01:01:36.260 is probably
01:01:37.740 the strongest ally
01:01:38.760 of Quebec
01:01:39.300 in terms of
01:01:40.440 decentralization
01:01:41.380 and I've
01:01:42.540 you know
01:01:43.200 I'm a good friend
01:01:43.780 of Jason Kenney
01:01:44.520 the current premier
01:01:45.500 Daniel Smith
01:01:47.200 who's running
01:01:47.700 for his leaders
01:01:48.440 for the leadership
01:01:49.080 of the party
01:01:49.540 is also a close friend
01:01:50.640 I've always had
01:01:51.860 a lot of friends
01:01:52.560 in Alberta
01:01:53.060 among conservatives
01:01:54.260 and I think
01:01:55.900 that the first
01:01:56.680 province
01:01:57.660 that is normally
01:01:58.900 and historically
01:01:59.660 an ally
01:02:00.900 should be Alberta
01:02:02.000 well it would be
01:02:02.860 lovely to see that
01:02:03.960 as speaking
01:02:05.040 as an Albertan
01:02:05.900 and maybe I can
01:02:06.780 do a little
01:02:07.560 sideways move here
01:02:08.780 Canada
01:02:09.700 is in a quandary
01:02:11.920 like the rest
01:02:13.480 of the world
01:02:14.200 on the energy
01:02:15.700 and environment
01:02:16.400 front
01:02:16.920 and Quebec
01:02:18.300 and Alberta
01:02:18.860 have been
01:02:19.500 at serious odds
01:02:20.880 on that issue
01:02:21.620 for the last decade
01:02:22.800 as well as Alberta
01:02:23.900 and the federal government
01:02:24.940 and the chickens
01:02:26.820 in many ways
01:02:27.700 are coming home
01:02:28.340 to roost
01:02:28.880 I mean
01:02:29.280 the German
01:02:30.280 chancellor
01:02:31.000 came to Canada
01:02:31.960 a few weeks ago
01:02:33.300 cap in hand
01:02:34.580 and asked his
01:02:35.980 old ally
01:02:36.900 the Canadians
01:02:37.860 for help
01:02:39.000 with liquid
01:02:40.060 natural gas
01:02:40.820 provision
01:02:41.320 for example
01:02:42.040 to help reduce
01:02:43.560 this catastrophic
01:02:45.000 German dependence
01:02:46.040 on Russian
01:02:47.460 fossil fuel exports
01:02:49.120 and Trudeau
01:02:50.120 basically sent him
01:02:51.260 away
01:02:51.600 empty-handed
01:02:52.860 stating
01:02:53.700 in a manner
01:02:54.840 so utterly
01:02:55.700 preposterous
01:02:56.520 that it's a form
01:02:57.280 of idiot miracle
01:02:58.700 that no business
01:03:00.140 case could be made
01:03:01.300 for Canada
01:03:01.960 to export
01:03:03.160 liquid natural gas
01:03:04.800 to Europe
01:03:06.780 to Germany
01:03:07.600 in particular
01:03:08.080 and that's so
01:03:09.160 utterly preposterous
01:03:10.360 because we have
01:03:11.080 so much natural gas
01:03:12.380 and we have
01:03:12.840 the facilities
01:03:13.500 to liquefy it
01:03:14.480 and the only reason
01:03:15.780 a business case
01:03:16.520 can't be made
01:03:17.460 is because
01:03:18.220 the federal liberals
01:03:19.080 have made it
01:03:19.700 economically impossible
01:03:21.120 for any actors
01:03:22.540 to build the pipelines
01:03:24.660 for example
01:03:25.360 build the infrastructure
01:03:26.440 and make this energy
01:03:27.840 accessible
01:03:28.420 and so
01:03:28.920 if you were
01:03:29.860 leader of the
01:03:31.000 provincial government
01:03:32.960 in Quebec
01:03:33.460 what do you think
01:03:35.480 you could do
01:03:36.080 what would you be
01:03:36.820 inclined to do
01:03:37.620 let's say
01:03:38.460 with Alberta
01:03:39.160 and the rest
01:03:40.320 of Canada
01:03:40.840 to rectify that
01:03:43.060 well the first thing
01:03:44.160 regarding oil
01:03:45.480 and gas
01:03:46.080 a few days ago
01:03:48.260 I was in the
01:03:49.080 Saguenay region
01:03:50.060 northeast of Quebec
01:03:52.520 to say that
01:03:53.960 I'm the only
01:03:54.920 political leader
01:03:55.720 right now
01:03:56.320 who's in favour
01:03:57.320 of the LNG
01:03:58.400 Quebec project
01:03:59.600 which is natural
01:04:00.500 liquefied gas
01:04:01.560 project
01:04:04.160 a 14 billion
01:04:05.460 dollars investment
01:04:06.720 our Quebec government
01:04:08.360 initially
01:04:08.900 was in favour
01:04:09.740 of it
01:04:10.160 Mr. Legault
01:04:11.200 the current premier
01:04:12.040 even met
01:04:12.940 with the Alberta
01:04:14.320 premier
01:04:14.740 and he was all
01:04:15.400 in favour of it
01:04:16.160 and then a few
01:04:16.980 environmentalists
01:04:17.940 stood up in Montreal
01:04:19.040 and Mr. Legault
01:04:19.820 flip-flopped
01:04:20.580 and decided
01:04:21.400 that now
01:04:21.960 he did even worse
01:04:23.180 than that
01:04:23.580 he did adopt
01:04:24.420 a bill
01:04:24.760 three months ago
01:04:25.580 to say that
01:04:26.480 in Quebec
01:04:26.900 it's forbidden
01:04:27.680 to explore
01:04:28.520 and exploit
01:04:29.280 any kind
01:04:30.140 of oil
01:04:30.520 and gas
01:04:31.060 he went
01:04:32.060 to the other
01:04:32.460 extreme
01:04:32.880 he denied
01:04:34.180 the rights
01:04:35.380 of the companies
01:04:36.180 who already
01:04:36.720 had rights
01:04:37.320 given by the
01:04:37.940 Quebec government
01:04:38.540 and now
01:04:39.300 we're sued
01:04:39.980 we're sued
01:04:41.420 I mean
01:04:41.680 the Quebec government
01:04:42.560 is sued
01:04:43.180 for billions
01:04:44.700 I think it's
01:04:45.440 18 billion dollars
01:04:46.640 because we
01:04:48.220 were denying
01:04:49.000 rights
01:04:49.800 of companies
01:04:50.680 that were given
01:04:51.320 by the government
01:04:52.080 so it's
01:04:53.200 a real mess
01:04:54.080 so he scuttled
01:04:55.560 a 14 billion dollar
01:04:56.860 project
01:04:57.340 and then
01:04:58.340 accrued
01:05:00.200 18 billion dollars
01:05:01.360 in potential
01:05:02.200 legal liability
01:05:03.820 to not
01:05:05.120 produce
01:05:05.820 fossil fuel
01:05:06.860 to look good
01:05:09.560 in front of
01:05:10.040 the environmentalist
01:05:10.940 let's put it
01:05:11.400 that way
01:05:11.740 I'm going to push
01:05:12.920 you on that
01:05:13.380 because
01:05:13.620 it needs
01:05:15.180 to be done
01:05:15.660 so I'm going
01:05:17.160 to be environmentalist
01:05:18.200 here and I'm going
01:05:18.860 to say
01:05:19.220 we need to
01:05:20.720 transfer away
01:05:23.900 from these
01:05:24.700 despicable
01:05:25.900 fossil fuels
01:05:26.620 as rapidly
01:05:27.180 as possible
01:05:27.860 there's going
01:05:28.640 to be a
01:05:28.960 substantial amount
01:05:29.840 of economic
01:05:30.420 disruption
01:05:30.960 as a consequence
01:05:31.700 people are going
01:05:32.500 to have to
01:05:32.960 bear
01:05:33.240 more costs
01:05:34.480 on the energy
01:05:35.080 front
01:05:35.480 but that's
01:05:36.380 okay
01:05:36.700 because they
01:05:37.480 should be
01:05:37.800 burning less
01:05:38.460 fossil fuel
01:05:39.160 anyways
01:05:39.700 because of
01:05:40.400 the liability
01:05:41.560 accrued
01:05:42.040 by the planet
01:05:42.760 these are
01:05:43.660 necessary
01:05:44.340 disruptions
01:05:45.200 as we move
01:05:45.800 toward a
01:05:46.300 sustainable
01:05:46.720 economy
01:05:47.300 and
01:05:48.220 if
01:05:49.300 a few
01:05:49.960 eggs
01:05:50.320 have to
01:05:50.700 be broken
01:05:51.140 to make
01:05:51.520 an omelette
01:05:52.020 then c'est la vie
01:05:53.160 and so
01:05:54.240 what do you
01:05:55.240 think about
01:05:55.720 that line
01:05:56.420 of argumentation
01:05:57.240 how do you
01:05:57.820 respond to it
01:05:59.140 how do you
01:05:59.720 counter it
01:06:00.400 do you
01:06:00.900 accept it
01:06:01.620 there's a few
01:06:02.920 things we need
01:06:03.480 to say
01:06:03.820 first off
01:06:04.520 our dependence
01:06:05.740 on gas
01:06:07.620 and oil
01:06:08.140 is not going
01:06:08.860 to stop
01:06:09.280 tomorrow
01:06:09.780 the transition
01:06:10.800 is going
01:06:11.280 to take
01:06:11.600 a few
01:06:11.920 decades
01:06:12.400 actually
01:06:13.080 we're even
01:06:13.780 estimating
01:06:14.360 right now
01:06:14.860 that for gas
01:06:15.680 let's say
01:06:16.200 for the next
01:06:17.000 50 years
01:06:17.820 there's going
01:06:18.220 to be a
01:06:18.580 growth
01:06:19.020 in terms
01:06:19.880 of demand
01:06:20.420 so you
01:06:21.220 know
01:06:21.380 yes we're
01:06:21.880 going to
01:06:22.060 get out
01:06:22.380 of it
01:06:22.640 but it's
01:06:22.960 not going
01:06:23.220 to happen
01:06:23.540 overnight
01:06:23.920 it could
01:06:24.440 happen
01:06:24.740 in five
01:06:25.140 six
01:06:25.460 seven
01:06:25.860 eight
01:06:26.180 decades
01:06:26.720 okay so
01:06:27.660 I say
01:06:28.240 well that's
01:06:28.720 that's too
01:06:29.280 that's too
01:06:29.840 long
01:06:30.180 we're going
01:06:31.260 to be
01:06:31.520 roasting
01:06:31.940 in our
01:06:32.480 in our
01:06:33.200 oven-like
01:06:34.220 homes
01:06:34.700 in ten
01:06:35.680 years
01:06:36.060 we have
01:06:36.900 to act
01:06:38.020 more
01:06:38.300 precipitously
01:06:39.040 and if it
01:06:39.580 requires
01:06:40.100 force and
01:06:40.880 fear
01:06:41.220 so be it
01:06:42.020 so what
01:06:43.020 why is that
01:06:43.720 a problematic
01:06:44.260 argument
01:06:44.860 if it is
01:06:45.560 it is a
01:06:46.060 you
01:06:46.260 it does
01:06:47.040 it doesn't
01:06:47.620 make sense
01:06:48.040 in my book
01:06:48.580 because
01:06:48.960 what are you
01:06:49.740 going to do
01:06:50.320 in the
01:06:50.760 main time
01:06:51.180 like tomorrow
01:06:52.020 morning
01:06:52.380 we're 100%
01:06:53.400 dependent
01:06:53.920 right now
01:06:54.480 in quebec
01:06:54.960 of oil
01:06:55.800 and gas
01:06:56.300 coming from
01:06:56.800 outside
01:06:57.300 okay from
01:06:57.900 and so
01:06:59.360 if you know
01:07:00.460 and we saw
01:07:00.960 what's happening
01:07:01.820 in western
01:07:02.600 europe right
01:07:03.260 now because
01:07:03.700 they were
01:07:04.020 dependent
01:07:04.460 of gas
01:07:05.600 coming from
01:07:06.160 russia
01:07:06.520 and we see
01:07:07.480 how it's
01:07:08.180 a huge
01:07:08.820 problem
01:07:09.300 not to be
01:07:10.340 autonomous
01:07:11.140 in terms
01:07:12.080 of energy
01:07:12.620 so
01:07:13.360 are you
01:07:14.720 proposing
01:07:15.160 and the
01:07:15.600 parties are
01:07:16.100 always good
01:07:16.660 currently in
01:07:17.260 quebec
01:07:17.520 all the
01:07:17.940 parties
01:07:18.260 all the
01:07:18.580 other
01:07:18.740 political
01:07:19.040 parties
01:07:19.420 they have
01:07:20.040 goals
01:07:20.420 you know
01:07:20.680 and they're
01:07:21.220 promising
01:07:21.700 that they're
01:07:22.200 going to
01:07:22.520 cut our
01:07:23.100 gas emission
01:07:24.320 by 37.5%
01:07:27.120 45%
01:07:28.660 55%
01:07:29.920 it's like
01:07:30.420 you know
01:07:31.000 it's like
01:07:31.340 an auction
01:07:32.040 to know
01:07:32.480 which one
01:07:32.940 is going
01:07:33.420 to have
01:07:33.700 the highest
01:07:34.100 percentage
01:07:34.620 of cutting
01:07:35.580 gas emission
01:07:37.040 but when you
01:07:37.980 look at it
01:07:38.620 no one's
01:07:39.360 ready to tell
01:07:40.060 you how
01:07:40.580 they're going
01:07:40.940 to do that
01:07:41.380 how many
01:07:41.860 factories
01:07:42.340 are they
01:07:42.700 going to
01:07:42.940 shut down
01:07:43.440 how many
01:07:44.140 million people
01:07:44.860 are going
01:07:45.180 to say
01:07:45.460 they can't
01:07:45.980 drive their
01:07:46.420 cars anymore
01:07:47.200 how many
01:07:47.960 you know
01:07:48.720 skidoos
01:07:49.400 and yachts
01:07:50.320 and every
01:07:50.660 how are they
01:07:51.640 going to do
01:07:52.100 that
01:07:52.320 they never
01:07:52.920 ever say
01:07:53.600 it
01:07:53.780 and every
01:07:54.660 single time
01:07:55.300 those politicians
01:07:56.220 promise that
01:07:56.980 they're always
01:07:57.800 lying
01:07:58.220 they never
01:07:59.040 ever achieve
01:07:59.840 their goal
01:08:00.400 it's always
01:08:01.140 easy to
01:08:01.820 look good
01:08:02.420 and that's
01:08:03.160 the problem
01:08:03.560 with the left
01:08:04.120 often
01:08:04.500 they want
01:08:05.140 to show
01:08:05.600 off
01:08:05.920 well we
01:08:06.360 could also
01:08:06.860 point out
01:08:07.580 we could also
01:08:09.240 point out
01:08:09.840 that the
01:08:10.580 Americans
01:08:10.980 turned radically
01:08:12.160 to natural
01:08:13.320 gas fracking
01:08:14.160 after the
01:08:14.780 year 2000
01:08:15.480 and let's
01:08:16.680 just outline
01:08:17.580 the consequences
01:08:18.360 of that
01:08:18.800 so the
01:08:19.340 first bloody
01:08:19.960 consequence
01:08:20.460 was that
01:08:21.100 they cut
01:08:21.620 their carbon
01:08:22.140 dioxide output
01:08:23.000 by 15%
01:08:24.080 and so
01:08:25.860 and that was
01:08:26.600 not something
01:08:27.300 that any
01:08:27.700 environmentalists
01:08:28.520 predicted
01:08:28.920 and certainly
01:08:29.520 would have
01:08:29.840 opposed
01:08:30.240 but it
01:08:31.120 turned out
01:08:31.500 to be the
01:08:31.860 case that
01:08:32.360 while the
01:08:33.180 Americans
01:08:33.600 essentially
01:08:34.140 made themselves
01:08:34.860 not only
01:08:35.440 energy
01:08:36.160 self-sufficient
01:08:37.680 but capable
01:08:38.640 of then becoming
01:08:39.860 one of the
01:08:40.260 world's biggest
01:08:40.840 potential exporters
01:08:42.160 of fossil fuel
01:08:42.920 products
01:08:43.420 they did it
01:08:44.480 in a manner
01:08:44.980 that simultaneously
01:08:46.020 reduced the
01:08:46.940 carbon load
01:08:47.480 and so I
01:08:48.960 look at
01:08:49.380 policies like
01:08:50.340 Trudeau's
01:08:50.780 policy and I
01:08:51.420 think okay
01:08:52.340 so what the
01:08:52.820 hell is the
01:08:53.180 goal here
01:08:53.660 exactly
01:08:54.140 you're going
01:08:54.880 to demonize
01:08:55.880 liquid natural
01:08:57.000 gas in
01:08:57.540 particular which
01:08:58.080 is an
01:08:58.320 exceptionally
01:08:58.800 clean fuel
01:08:59.660 which is
01:09:00.080 extremely
01:09:00.520 abundant
01:09:00.960 and which
01:09:01.400 is also
01:09:01.840 extremely
01:09:02.900 inexpensive
01:09:03.620 which you
01:09:04.820 think would
01:09:05.400 appeal to
01:09:05.960 the lefties
01:09:06.760 because
01:09:07.280 hypothetically
01:09:08.140 they're
01:09:08.480 compared about
01:09:09.100 the poor
01:09:09.580 and instead
01:09:10.440 of noticing
01:09:11.120 that and
01:09:12.260 touting
01:09:12.820 liquid natural
01:09:14.020 gas as a
01:09:14.640 replacement for
01:09:15.360 coal and
01:09:16.320 for a
01:09:17.420 wood which
01:09:18.120 of course the
01:09:18.740 Germans are
01:09:19.300 madly gathering
01:09:20.300 at the moment
01:09:20.940 to the point
01:09:21.700 of driving
01:09:22.500 firewood into
01:09:23.260 shortage
01:09:23.760 instead of
01:09:25.500 pointing out
01:09:25.900 that that's
01:09:26.280 a legitimate
01:09:27.080 clean and
01:09:28.320 accessible
01:09:28.940 alternative
01:09:30.140 that's also
01:09:31.000 cheap compared
01:09:32.140 to say coal
01:09:33.360 in China or
01:09:34.300 coal in Europe
01:09:34.940 for that matter
01:09:35.580 the notion
01:09:36.960 seems to be
01:09:37.600 no we have
01:09:38.820 to do something
01:09:39.400 that we can't
01:09:40.200 do in an
01:09:40.920 impossible manner
01:09:41.800 and create
01:09:42.500 panic and
01:09:43.080 economic havoc
01:09:44.200 while doing
01:09:45.160 it to
01:09:45.940 pretend to
01:09:47.280 do something
01:09:48.040 on the
01:09:48.320 environmental
01:09:48.700 front that
01:09:49.520 absolutely will
01:09:50.540 not happen
01:09:51.380 at all
01:09:52.160 it's even
01:09:52.860 worse than
01:09:53.280 that you
01:09:54.000 talked about
01:09:54.880 the German
01:09:55.380 delegation that
01:09:56.240 came in
01:09:56.700 Canada a few
01:09:57.340 days ago
01:09:57.820 they even
01:09:58.140 came here
01:09:58.540 in Quebec
01:09:58.860 now you're
01:10:01.020 right to say
01:10:01.480 they're going
01:10:01.800 to have to
01:10:02.180 switch over
01:10:02.700 the winter
01:10:03.220 from natural
01:10:04.560 gas to
01:10:05.460 coal which
01:10:06.240 is much
01:10:06.760 worse it's
01:10:07.580 60% more
01:10:08.440 emissions and
01:10:09.020 everything like
01:10:09.460 if Canada
01:10:10.220 was exporting
01:10:11.020 our LNG
01:10:13.600 project with
01:10:14.460 gas we
01:10:15.980 would reduce
01:10:16.740 emissions so
01:10:17.460 we would do
01:10:17.960 much better
01:10:18.620 for the
01:10:18.920 environment and
01:10:19.560 on top of
01:10:20.160 creating very
01:10:21.020 good jobs in
01:10:21.840 our regions
01:10:22.320 here in
01:10:22.680 Canada but
01:10:23.460 it's worse
01:10:23.780 than that
01:10:24.200 we're probably
01:10:24.880 going to have
01:10:25.260 to export
01:10:25.900 coal because
01:10:27.120 they're also
01:10:27.640 going to run
01:10:28.100 out of coal
01:10:28.660 so that and
01:10:29.800 that's going
01:10:30.120 to be okay
01:10:30.620 according to
01:10:31.280 Mr. Trudeau
01:10:31.960 standards and
01:10:32.700 the left
01:10:33.080 standards and
01:10:33.780 the environmentalist
01:10:34.660 standards the
01:10:36.100 net you know
01:10:37.320 it's all to
01:10:38.000 look good but
01:10:39.140 when you look
01:10:40.220 at the data
01:10:40.840 when you look
01:10:41.360 at the results
01:10:42.120 it's terrible
01:10:43.140 what they're
01:10:43.600 proposing it's
01:10:44.320 even worse than
01:10:45.080 what they're
01:10:45.820 fighting against
01:10:47.120 well let's go
01:10:48.260 on that looking
01:10:49.000 good side so
01:10:49.840 one of the
01:10:50.260 things I found
01:10:51.080 out this was
01:10:52.000 also true of
01:10:52.680 the conservative
01:10:53.200 party in
01:10:53.880 Ontario and
01:10:57.540 I'm you know
01:10:58.440 relatively positively
01:10:59.660 predisposed to
01:11:00.620 the conservatives
01:11:01.200 in Ontario
01:11:01.860 especially given
01:11:02.660 the nature of
01:11:04.060 the alternative
01:11:04.620 during COVID
01:11:06.400 and I know
01:11:07.240 this because I
01:11:07.820 was told this
01:11:08.400 by senior
01:11:09.100 members of
01:11:10.820 the Ontario
01:11:11.920 government
01:11:13.200 as well as
01:11:15.240 discussing
01:11:17.160 recently with
01:11:18.620 journalist
01:11:19.120 Ruba Subramania
01:11:20.700 and a group
01:11:21.620 of people who
01:11:22.400 are suing the
01:11:23.620 Canadian government
01:11:24.320 the court
01:11:25.140 documents have
01:11:25.800 revealed for
01:11:26.820 example that
01:11:27.500 the travel ban
01:11:31.620 that Trudeau
01:11:32.320 implemented
01:11:33.020 had
01:11:34.400 hypothetically
01:11:36.520 to stop the
01:11:37.300 spread of COVID
01:11:37.860 had so little
01:11:39.900 scientific justification
01:11:41.400 despite being
01:11:42.260 touted as
01:11:42.920 scientifically
01:11:43.360 justifiable that
01:11:44.260 even though the
01:11:45.400 Trudeau cabinet
01:11:46.340 gave direct
01:11:47.700 orders to the
01:11:48.720 people working in
01:11:49.500 their health
01:11:49.980 departments to
01:11:51.280 formulate a
01:11:52.600 scientific rationale
01:11:53.660 to justify the
01:11:55.120 ban the people
01:11:57.060 so ordered
01:11:58.040 couldn't even
01:12:00.260 though that some
01:12:01.060 of them were
01:12:01.520 willing to
01:12:02.340 attempt to do
01:12:04.080 so.
01:12:04.800 So it lacked
01:12:06.180 such scientific
01:12:07.820 justification that
01:12:08.800 even under
01:12:09.380 duress the
01:12:10.540 people tasked
01:12:11.300 with generating
01:12:12.680 the rationale
01:12:13.200 post-hoc
01:12:13.760 couldn't do it
01:12:14.420 and that the
01:12:15.640 reason the
01:12:16.180 bloody travel
01:12:16.860 ban was
01:12:17.320 implemented to
01:12:17.980 begin with
01:12:18.440 which deprived
01:12:19.300 about 7 million
01:12:20.180 people of the
01:12:20.800 right to visit
01:12:22.200 their dying
01:12:22.900 relatives in
01:12:23.680 hospitals for
01:12:24.780 example the
01:12:26.880 actual rationale
01:12:29.140 was that the
01:12:30.580 liberal minority
01:12:31.800 government federally
01:12:32.960 headed by Trudeau
01:12:34.120 wanted to launch
01:12:35.840 a precipitous
01:12:36.520 election to put
01:12:37.700 themselves in the
01:12:38.340 majority position
01:12:39.200 and was looking
01:12:40.100 for a wedge issue
01:12:41.420 to divide Canadians
01:12:42.480 so that they
01:12:43.020 could ramp up
01:12:43.660 their grip on
01:12:44.300 power.
01:12:45.100 This has all
01:12:45.500 been revealed in
01:12:46.280 court documents.
01:12:47.360 It's utterly
01:12:48.540 preposterous and
01:12:51.040 so I'm pointing
01:12:53.500 that out as part
01:12:54.220 of a broader
01:12:54.700 trend this
01:12:55.580 trend of let's
01:12:56.360 say looking
01:12:57.700 good well why
01:12:58.800 are we implementing
01:12:59.820 a travel ban
01:13:00.680 well because we're
01:13:02.100 so concerned about
01:13:02.940 your health it's
01:13:03.920 like well no that's
01:13:04.840 not why you want
01:13:05.580 to look like you're
01:13:06.320 concerned about our
01:13:06.980 health but actually
01:13:07.640 you want to you
01:13:08.700 want to catalyze
01:13:10.080 your grip on power
01:13:11.140 in the most
01:13:11.640 manipulative way
01:13:12.500 possible but then
01:13:13.820 I also know let's
01:13:15.320 say on the
01:13:15.720 conservative side
01:13:16.520 when COVID
01:13:18.180 policies were being
01:13:19.120 formulated and they
01:13:20.180 were being touted as
01:13:21.300 driven by the
01:13:22.020 science all that
01:13:23.480 was happening
01:13:24.080 was that they
01:13:25.680 were generating
01:13:26.960 opinion polls that
01:13:28.360 were sampling
01:13:29.000 people's fear
01:13:30.020 noting what they
01:13:31.440 were most afraid
01:13:32.200 of reacting to
01:13:33.600 that fear with
01:13:34.400 draconian lockdowns
01:13:35.700 although not as bad
01:13:36.480 in Ontario as in
01:13:37.380 Quebec and then
01:13:38.440 post hoc justifying
01:13:39.900 that with a science
01:13:41.280 that didn't exist
01:13:42.440 and then demonizing
01:13:44.060 anyone who claimed
01:13:45.920 that the science did
01:13:47.500 not support that and
01:13:48.580 that the measures were
01:13:49.440 overreaching.
01:13:50.080 it was not just
01:13:51.060 federally by the way
01:13:52.020 here in Quebec we
01:13:52.840 went to even worse
01:13:53.740 than that with the
01:13:54.800 carefew there was
01:13:56.300 not one single
01:13:57.380 study showing that a
01:13:59.000 carefew is having an
01:14:00.580 impact to stop
01:14:01.820 COVID actually there's
01:14:03.420 even people who and
01:14:04.660 suggestions that it's
01:14:05.980 even worse because
01:14:06.740 you're concentrating more
01:14:07.880 people in a few
01:14:09.740 hours so you're there
01:14:11.240 it's spreading faster
01:14:12.520 the and when we were
01:14:14.380 asked when the premier
01:14:16.140 was asked for studies we
01:14:17.800 found out afterwards
01:14:18.780 that the public health
01:14:22.100 director was trying
01:14:23.800 sending notes to his
01:14:25.380 bureaucrats trying can
01:14:26.380 you find me a study
01:14:27.360 just before the press
01:14:28.640 conference they were
01:14:29.300 looking for and they
01:14:30.040 couldn't find one and
01:14:31.060 when they were asked
01:14:32.040 what scientific evidence
01:14:33.580 do you have that
01:14:34.420 carefews could stop the
01:14:36.040 spreading of COVID you
01:14:37.600 know what they came out
01:14:38.400 with a public opinion
01:14:39.740 poll that's the science
01:14:41.240 they had and they said
01:14:42.400 look this is what people
01:14:43.640 want so that's not
01:14:45.780 science I understand
01:14:46.580 there's a methodology
01:14:47.420 that is scientific but
01:14:48.600 that's about it it's
01:14:49.680 political science
01:14:50.620 that's what frightened
01:14:52.060 people want when you
01:14:53.300 ask them stupid
01:14:54.980 questions that they
01:14:56.480 answer impulsively when
01:14:58.380 they've been frightened
01:14:59.360 specifically and and
01:15:01.720 pointedly by their
01:15:02.960 governments in
01:15:03.880 collusion with the
01:15:05.720 idiot legacy media that
01:15:07.160 they're subsidizing so
01:15:08.800 it isn't even because
01:15:09.780 people will say well
01:15:10.640 that's what people
01:15:11.260 wanted and maybe you
01:15:12.200 should give it to
01:15:12.820 them it's like and
01:15:13.840 this is back to that
01:15:14.640 principle of
01:15:15.300 subsidiarity and
01:15:16.320 distributed political
01:15:17.240 responsibility you do
01:15:18.840 not randomly sample
01:15:20.520 impulsive public opinion
01:15:22.120 and derive your
01:15:23.360 doctrines of governance
01:15:24.380 so I would ask you how
01:15:25.720 would you protect
01:15:26.500 yourself if you were
01:15:27.640 the leader of the
01:15:29.360 conservative party in
01:15:30.520 Quebec and the
01:15:31.080 premier from from
01:15:32.140 falling into that
01:15:33.160 trap because I've seen
01:15:34.160 people all across the
01:15:35.160 political spectrum claim
01:15:37.120 allegiance to
01:15:38.040 principles but then
01:15:38.920 governed by opinion
01:15:40.280 poll two things I want
01:15:41.320 to say first I want to
01:15:42.200 go back to the oil and
01:15:43.100 gas exploitation because
01:15:44.660 it's another example of
01:15:45.880 also government
01:15:46.540 misusing public opinion
01:15:48.860 polls we've done public
01:15:50.940 opinion polls here as
01:15:52.020 well and what we see is
01:15:53.720 that when you ask people
01:15:54.780 do you want Quebec to
01:15:55.720 exploit oil and gas
01:15:56.900 people say no no no no
01:15:58.180 the majority says no
01:15:59.280 because you know they
01:16:00.260 they think we're going to
01:16:01.240 pollute and blah and
01:16:02.400 then when you say okay
01:16:03.200 there's a war currently in
01:16:04.580 Ukraine it's having this
01:16:05.940 impact on Germany do you
01:16:07.600 think we should have we
01:16:08.560 should send them our
01:16:10.060 liquefied gas yes or no
01:16:12.220 then you have a strong
01:16:13.340 majority that's saying
01:16:14.160 yes yes yes yes yes
01:16:15.180 yeah so so you have to
01:16:16.980 be very cautious with the
01:16:18.200 data of those polls you
01:16:19.460 can't govern by polls
01:16:20.740 because depending of how
01:16:22.460 you put the context in
01:16:24.000 you're going to have
01:16:24.440 different results you know
01:16:26.600 I'm not in politics to
01:16:28.140 follow polls I'm in
01:16:29.640 politics to lead polls and
01:16:31.880 I as opposed to our
01:16:33.600 government hey we we
01:16:34.700 never had a government
01:16:35.720 here in Quebec that has
01:16:36.720 been polling as much
01:16:37.720 people it's two three
01:16:39.120 polls per day on average
01:16:40.960 that they've done over
01:16:41.820 the last few years it's
01:16:43.460 crazy never they probably
01:16:45.020 pulled more in this
01:16:46.200 mandate than in Quebec's
01:16:47.880 history all together and
01:16:49.740 so me you know I I
01:16:52.040 decided to run for a
01:16:53.020 party that was at one
01:16:53.920 percent and had five
01:16:54.780 hundred members you know
01:16:56.640 I was not attracted by
01:16:57.840 the limousine or the
01:16:59.140 title or power what you
01:17:01.060 know what what drives me
01:17:02.620 is my ideas is my ideal is
01:17:05.240 my is what I'm looking for
01:17:06.480 my vision for Quebec for
01:17:07.740 the future and I think
01:17:09.280 that's a huge difference and
01:17:10.740 people know and and they
01:17:12.320 could say and I could
01:17:13.100 testify that I'm not there
01:17:14.640 I'm not an opportunist I'm
01:17:16.300 and what I'm telling them
01:17:17.640 I'm not telling them 50
01:17:18.680 things there I'm not going
01:17:19.540 to change Quebec all
01:17:20.440 together overnight but
01:17:22.660 there's four or five things
01:17:23.840 that I want to change you
01:17:25.580 know I'm going to put some
01:17:26.520 private in health care I'm
01:17:28.120 going to lower taxes for
01:17:29.340 people I'm going to exploit
01:17:30.960 and even export our oil and
01:17:33.480 gas in Quebec I will I will
01:17:35.640 give more freedom of choice
01:17:36.920 to parents and the education
01:17:38.200 of their kids and even for
01:17:39.380 kindergarten because here we
01:17:40.560 have a a a public daycare
01:17:42.960 that is becoming almost a
01:17:44.280 public monopoly that scares
01:17:45.500 me off I'm going to you
01:17:46.880 know so there there's a few
01:17:48.200 things like that that we're
01:17:49.340 going to focus on for the
01:17:50.900 first first four years and I
01:17:52.660 think that if we just
01:17:53.780 achieve that it's going to be
01:17:54.780 huge yeah even even if you
01:17:57.340 just achieved that on the
01:17:59.160 energy front I mean look at
01:18:00.280 the situation that Canada is
01:18:01.700 in is that we could be rich
01:18:04.620 you know we're we're about
01:18:05.960 35 percent behind the
01:18:07.640 Americans now in terms of
01:18:08.840 our level of wealth and the
01:18:11.120 the the the economic
01:18:13.760 foreseers I don't remember
01:18:15.940 which group but it was a
01:18:17.620 reputable group estimated
01:18:20.080 that of the G20 countries
01:18:22.500 Canada would have the lowest
01:18:23.520 economic growth for the last
01:18:25.100 for the next four decades by
01:18:27.860 which time we should be 50
01:18:29.720 percent or 75 percent behind
01:18:31.680 the Americans when instead
01:18:33.340 imagine what we have in
01:18:34.740 front of us Saskatchewan I
01:18:36.440 think has more uranium than
01:18:37.580 the rest of the world
01:18:38.300 combined if I remember that
01:18:39.840 correctly we have almost
01:18:42.200 inexhaustible oil and gas
01:18:43.580 reserves despite what people
01:18:44.840 think natural gas is
01:18:46.760 extremely clean compared to
01:18:48.000 the alternatives particularly
01:18:49.060 coal we could we can ramp up
01:18:51.740 our production of fossil fuels
01:18:52.980 in the clean and sustainable
01:18:54.840 and moral manner that ethical
01:18:57.940 Canadian businesses could offer
01:18:59.700 we could make ourselves rich
01:19:02.220 and make our lives abundant
01:19:04.620 for our children while doing
01:19:06.320 so we could provide that
01:19:08.500 energy to China so that they
01:19:10.060 could be less reliant on coal
01:19:11.380 and to Europe so that the
01:19:13.460 Europeans would have a
01:19:14.240 diversified energy supply at a
01:19:15.860 much lower cost and so we
01:19:17.160 could make poor people rich
01:19:18.700 around the world by doing so
01:19:20.640 we could increase geopolitical
01:19:24.620 stability massively by
01:19:26.620 differentiating our energy
01:19:28.780 supplies and the net consequence
01:19:31.740 for the environment by the
01:19:33.440 environmental standards would
01:19:34.920 be beneficial compared to the
01:19:36.380 alternative which is well
01:19:38.240 we'll destabilize things so
01:19:39.520 rapidly like we did in Sri
01:19:40.780 Lanka that we're going to
01:19:41.600 throw people into poverty and
01:19:43.280 blow the whole system of
01:19:45.060 international trade which is
01:19:46.560 bloody well what we're risking
01:19:47.780 right now in places like Europe
01:19:49.580 it'll be a miracle if the
01:19:51.040 European Union even survive
01:19:52.400 survives as far as I can tell
01:19:53.840 the next year because when the
01:19:55.900 energy crunch hits this winter
01:19:57.560 which is very likely to do
01:19:59.220 there's going to be absolute
01:20:00.620 hell to pay 70,000 people were
01:20:03.200 demonstrating yesterday in
01:20:04.320 Czechoslovakia so we're
01:20:07.380 playing with fire and it is this
01:20:08.920 bloody virtue signaling that
01:20:10.440 says well of course I care about
01:20:12.100 the environment and so it's time
01:20:13.900 to put the forcible clamps down
01:20:16.480 on the access that poor people
01:20:19.280 have to energy as if that's going
01:20:21.480 to do anything whatsoever except
01:20:23.020 make a bad situation worse on
01:20:25.080 every possible front and then
01:20:26.880 another sacred cow that we're
01:20:28.520 attacking and that's going to be
01:20:29.960 of interest for Canadians outside
01:20:32.020 of Quebec is is health care
01:20:34.220 because that's another thing that
01:20:35.840 the virtue signaling is very very
01:20:37.520 important you know we want
01:20:39.580 everybody to have universal access
01:20:41.660 free and the best in the world and
01:20:43.400 blah blah we know the the rest of
01:20:45.460 how they see it but the reality is
01:20:49.080 that our system is inefficient and
01:20:51.540 in Quebec one of the reasons why we
01:20:53.140 had to lock down our population more
01:20:54.980 than anywhere else in the continent
01:20:56.980 is because our health care system is
01:20:58.480 probably the most inefficient and we
01:21:00.880 need to fix that and obviously it's
01:21:02.760 not some small reform within a public
01:21:04.660 monopoly that is going to achieve
01:21:06.220 that monopolies are not good it's not
01:21:08.520 efficient and we need to open up we
01:21:10.920 need to increase we need to have
01:21:12.160 competition we need to decentralize and
01:21:14.900 unfortunately the centrally planned
01:21:16.900 system that we have right now is not
01:21:19.200 good Quebecers are spending a billion
01:21:21.600 dollar every single week in a system
01:21:23.940 that couldn't handle two or three
01:21:26.100 hundred patients in the intensive
01:21:28.280 health care facilities like well did
01:21:30.440 Quebec build it in most of Canada while
01:21:33.520 the pandemic was raging the government
01:21:35.980 seemed to be utterly unable to build
01:21:38.940 more emergency beds despite the fact that
01:21:43.620 the pandemic raged for a couple of
01:21:45.060 years and despite the fact that there was
01:21:46.520 a tremendous amount of money spent so what
01:21:48.800 kind of differentiated and detailed vision
01:21:51.140 do you have for improving the health
01:21:54.200 care system by introducing some private
01:21:56.480 public diversification and why shouldn't
01:21:58.340 people be afraid of that well first off we
01:22:00.940 have to respect the Canada Health Act
01:22:02.840 which says that everybody should have
01:22:05.180 could have access to free services and
01:22:07.260 it's universal so we're going to respect
01:22:10.120 the Canada Health Act we're not running
01:22:11.720 federally we're running provincially but we
01:22:14.060 want to also make sure you know the the
01:22:16.900 principle is that it's an insurance that
01:22:19.300 is public it doesn't mean that you have to
01:22:21.500 deliver the services in a public
01:22:23.560 monopoly so what we're saying is that we
01:22:26.580 already have clinics that are private in
01:22:28.300 Quebec but currently it's a hundred or
01:22:30.380 zero which means like a physician needs to
01:22:33.440 say this to work for the public system a
01:22:36.480 hundred percent or for the private system a
01:22:38.960 hundred percent he can't he can't go 50 50 or
01:22:42.280 70 30 it's it's it's you're either with us or
01:22:45.220 with the enemy like kind of thing we want to
01:22:47.880 change that we want to give the freedom of
01:22:49.420 fit to physicians to say look if you can't
01:22:51.920 work more than two or three days because
01:22:54.020 that's a lot of them are stuck with that
01:22:56.200 because they don't have access to operation
01:22:58.360 facilities or all sorts of things so then
01:23:00.760 you can spend your your extra time and go in
01:23:03.640 the private sector and give more services to
01:23:06.040 the population that's one thing the second
01:23:08.500 thing we want to say is that you can have an
01:23:11.140 insurance you can invest in your health you
01:23:13.240 know it's it's crazy in Canada you can
01:23:15.380 invest to drink as much as you want if you
01:23:17.480 go to a liquor store a public monopoly of
01:23:19.920 liquor store or you can invest that you can
01:23:22.580 gamble in a in a public utility also with as
01:23:26.820 much money as you want but you can't invest
01:23:28.900 a penny in what's the most important in
01:23:31.060 your life and the life of your family which
01:23:32.800 is your health yeah so well so for those who
01:23:35.440 are listening some of you are going to
01:23:37.000 especially the younger people with perhaps
01:23:38.760 somewhat less experience you're going to
01:23:40.100 think well we don't want to compromise the
01:23:42.720 principle of universal free access but
01:23:45.360 let's so my father for example he's been he
01:23:50.780 had waited for a knee operation he's an he's
01:23:53.800 an older man he's in his mid 80s he waited
01:23:56.720 for a knee replacement for two and a half
01:23:58.740 years now one of the things I'd like to
01:24:01.220 point out is that is a cost of course and
01:24:04.720 it's lucky it didn't kill him and so there
01:24:06.920 one of the ways that the universally
01:24:08.840 accessible free health care system that
01:24:11.360 Canada hypothetically possesses and that
01:24:13.340 is hypothetically the best in the world
01:24:15.080 which is a very dubious claim by the way
01:24:17.280 is that it just rations it and so what
01:24:21.020 happens is that as you pointed out there
01:24:23.000 are nowhere near enough operating rooms
01:24:24.980 not even close and so people are on
01:24:27.280 waiting lists for long enough often to
01:24:30.340 kill them which I suppose is a cost
01:24:32.340 savings of a sort because they're waiting
01:24:34.480 to gain access to operating rooms that
01:24:36.660 just don't exist even though the
01:24:38.260 physicians are ready to do the
01:24:39.500 operations and so you limit the cost by
01:24:41.700 just limiting access but you don't
01:24:43.480 bloody well limit the cost no you just
01:24:46.120 make it impossible for people ever to
01:24:48.560 pay enough to actually get cured yeah and
01:24:51.360 this is a this is a very pervasive problem
01:24:53.400 in the Canadian health care establishment
01:24:54.900 it's not some little trivial problem there's
01:24:57.780 much better systems around the world they I've
01:24:59.940 visited the for example Sweden a few
01:25:02.500 years ago in Sweden you can have a private
01:25:04.600 hospital next to a public hospital and
01:25:07.540 the public hospital cannot provide you the
01:25:10.180 services that you need within a reasonable
01:25:13.880 delays you can cross over go to the private
01:25:16.300 facility and the government's going to pay
01:25:17.840 for it which makes makes more sense or even
01:25:20.240 if there's no even no matter what the
01:25:22.620 delays are if the private sector can do it
01:25:24.940 for cheaper than the public sector you can go
01:25:27.400 directly to the private sector so why don't
01:25:30.580 we have those systems you know Europe has
01:25:32.440 much more efficient systems than we have
01:25:34.560 right now in Canada and but we're for some
01:25:37.880 odd reasons we think that our system is the
01:25:40.060 best of the world but it's not at all and we
01:25:43.120 saw it with the pandemic if you know we saw
01:25:45.700 how fast the system cracked down and how we
01:25:48.560 weren't able to to to provide services that
01:25:51.540 people were paying for well and one of the
01:25:53.520 consequences of that too and this is
01:25:55.580 partly because the government dominated the
01:25:57.440 health care industry is that well we can't
01:25:59.900 actually cope with this influx of sick
01:26:01.820 people because our system is dreadfully
01:26:03.480 inefficient so what will what do we do
01:26:05.280 instead because we can't actually offer
01:26:07.260 medical services we'll say well how about
01:26:09.580 you don't get to go outside because that
01:26:12.560 looks like something to do and it looks
01:26:14.420 like action on the part of the bureaucrats or
01:26:16.300 how about you can't travel in your own
01:26:18.140 country that's it and so the degeneration
01:26:20.920 and and lack of utility of the public health
01:26:24.560 care system was a direct it was an indirect
01:26:27.440 contributor to the authoritarian crackdown at
01:26:30.800 the federal and provincial levels absolutely
01:26:33.060 and so and have you toyed at all with the
01:26:36.260 idea of because I'm always interested in the
01:26:38.860 issue of experimentation if you were going to
01:26:41.080 transform the the health care system in
01:26:43.980 Quebec by allowing for private competition
01:26:48.320 and diversification of health care provision
01:26:50.260 would you be able to do you have a vision of
01:26:53.200 how you might do that in a manner that would be
01:26:55.440 technically experimental so that you could
01:26:58.360 build toy projects and evaluate their utility
01:27:01.160 with some half decent set of metrics before
01:27:03.360 scaling it up absolutely we'll start in in
01:27:05.740 larger cities obviously because for for all
01:27:08.080 sorts of reasons it's much more it makes more
01:27:10.360 sense because the competition is going to be
01:27:12.320 easier to do we're also it looks very stupid
01:27:17.540 it's a small change but it could be a huge it could
01:27:21.260 have a huge impact currently our hospitals the way
01:27:24.420 they're funded is that they have fixed budgets
01:27:26.800 year after year and with a few you know a few
01:27:29.300 percentage increase from one year to the other no
01:27:32.120 matter how many patients they're receiving every
01:27:34.640 year and no so we want just to make sure that the
01:27:38.880 money follows the patient so so at least the
01:27:41.960 institution has an interest of bringing you in and
01:27:45.000 providing you services instead of like currently
01:27:47.500 the less people come in and the better it is most more
01:27:50.660 profitable they are so we want just to reverse the
01:27:53.660 way the state funds the system we're not going to
01:27:56.440 have fixed budgets for hospitals with a small
01:27:58.660 increase every year we're going to fund every
01:28:01.160 intervention they're doing and as many patients more
01:28:03.660 patients they have more money they will get so at least
01:28:06.200 they're going to have an incentive even as public
01:28:08.600 institutions to attract people and provide better
01:28:11.200 services and make sure that patients are like
01:28:13.460 clients and they want to make sure that they're
01:28:15.540 satisfied when they get out of the hospital so next
01:28:17.980 time they come to their facility instead of the
01:28:20.100 neck the one next door and so it's very small things
01:28:24.040 that could be done to send a free market economy
01:28:27.500 message that will improve the system any any ideas
01:28:32.780 for it I'll ask you two more sets of questions the
01:28:35.180 first would be do you have any ideas for innovations on
01:28:38.180 the education front from K through 12 to through the
01:28:42.300 university system which in my estimation has become
01:28:45.240 well the whole bloody system has become remarkably
01:28:47.460 corrupt and then also I'd like to have your opinion
01:28:52.500 about we haven't talked much about the federal
01:28:54.740 conservatives yet and the leadership race and I'd be
01:28:57.400 interested in your what would you say your opinions and
01:29:00.960 also your hopes on that front so maybe we can start with the
01:29:04.160 issue of education if that's a reasonable place to go
01:29:06.360 education in Quebec English Canadians need to know
01:29:09.900 something that the private sector is a little bit more
01:29:12.340 present and that's also another it's also another lasting
01:29:17.660 how could I say a thing of the past because of the Catholic
01:29:21.500 Church many of those old schools you know they were
01:29:25.600 Catholic schools and they were transformed into private
01:29:28.140 schools so we have more competition in education in
01:29:31.000 Quebec than elsewhere and the state also funds public private
01:29:35.600 institutions private schools in Quebec as high as 75% of what
01:29:39.800 they do for the public sector so there's already a competition we
01:29:44.360 want to increase that and because of that the public system has
01:29:47.960 been much better so now they provide you know international
01:29:52.100 programs or or exports and also there's all our arts and all sorts of
01:29:57.740 activities to make sure that they have to listen to parents because
01:30:00.560 otherwise parents go to the private sector it has put a good pressure and
01:30:04.360 it's exactly what we want to do in the in the healthcare system we've done it at
01:30:08.560 in part in the in schools but we want to increase it that that a little bit more
01:30:12.940 by going with you know kind of vouchers so they could parents could have more
01:30:18.520 freedom of choice of which school they're sending their kids you know we do
01:30:23.760 believe that it's the parents again it comes back to all the discussion we're
01:30:27.160 having since the beginning we want to give more power in the hands of the
01:30:30.340 parents to decide for the the school of their kids so that's part of it but the
01:30:35.860 big big issue on education the most important one right now is regarding
01:30:41.020 daycare because we have as I said a public daycare in Quebec it's called the you
01:30:46.960 know the kindergarten of of young kids that has been funded by the state largely
01:30:53.560 funded by the state and there's over a hundred thousand kids right now that go
01:30:58.300 into that public system and but there's fifty two thousand kids that are on
01:31:03.700 waiting list because this is what you know states intervention does it creates
01:31:09.280 waiting list that's how the the cost well that's where the yeah exactly that's
01:31:13.060 where the cost is hidden like your father and his knee like it's you know the
01:31:17.380 cost it's not this is credit card it's the fact that he has to wait for over two
01:31:21.400 years to get a surgery so what we're saying is that this is unacceptable and
01:31:27.700 those parents pay taxes by the way and they don't they cannot they cannot have
01:31:32.200 the service that they're paying for and also with the new reality there's more
01:31:36.220 and more parents nowadays that do not work Monday to Friday nine to five the you
01:31:40.960 know and with some of them now are just working two or three days outside their
01:31:45.360 homes so that what they need in terms of daycare is very different than what
01:31:49.220 their parents or their grandparents needed for their kids so we want to make
01:31:53.160 sure that we have a more flexible system and obviously the state can't provide
01:31:56.840 that we need to go in the private sector and that's why we want to give $200 per
01:32:01.760 week per kid to parents who are not within the public monopoly so they could
01:32:06.720 decide for themselves where they could you know which kind of kindergarten they're
01:32:11.900 looking for and bring that to a private facility no matter what it is so it's a
01:32:16.780 voucher system that's child-centered exactly are you aware by any chance a more
01:32:23.400 technical matter are you aware of any chance of the details of the of Hungary's
01:32:27.880 policy on families no I'm not okay well let me just run that through briefly I can
01:32:32.540 send you some material I think they've done an unbelievably effective job on a
01:32:37.480 variety of fronts well in Hungary I hope I have the details of this exactly right but I
01:32:44.500 definitely have the picture correct so the Hungarians were very concerned about
01:32:49.320 their extremely low birth rate and I think rightly so because I think a very
01:32:53.140 low birth rate is a sign that something has gone wrong in a society the priorities
01:32:56.900 aren't right so are Quebecers by the way I know I know well that's partly why I'm
01:33:01.020 bringing this up so what the Hungarians decided to do and they spend about six or
01:33:04.880 seven percent of their GDP now or their budget I don't remember it's the budget or the
01:33:09.980 GDP but it's a large proportion of their governmental spending and it's the
01:33:14.880 fundamental policy objective so if you're a Hungarian mother and this tends to be
01:33:21.260 focused particularly on people who are within stable long-term monogamous
01:33:26.240 relationships with children if you have four children you never pay income tax again
01:33:31.440 in your life I think if you have three it's 75 percent reduction if you have two it's
01:33:36.920 50 percent if you have one it's 25 percent and they've raised the birth rate in Hungary
01:33:41.960 substantively they've also cut the abortion rate by 40 percent over the last about 12
01:33:48.700 years with no compulsion with no real change in the underlying abortion laws and so they
01:33:53.520 have a very very family-friendly policy and they have very very smart people working on
01:33:58.920 it and so that's well that's that's something I found extremely interesting and promising
01:34:03.780 now also this is so cool at the same time they've increased female participation in
01:34:09.820 the labor force by 13 percent so the people who opposed the family policy
01:34:14.520 structure made the case that you were going to lock women at home and you know and revert
01:34:20.840 them to a more traditional role and this was part of some something approximating a
01:34:25.040 patriarchal plot but the reality is is that women are receiving recognition for the
01:34:30.940 long-term contribution they make to to the growth of society and its stability and are
01:34:37.560 more able to operate in the present and in the near future in the economic realm and so
01:34:43.200 so anyways I'll send you that material absolutely I'm looking forward to read that yeah yeah it's
01:34:48.000 very it's very interesting okay so let's close this off if you unless there's something else that
01:34:52.240 you specifically want to address afterward with your with your comments about the federal leadership
01:34:59.120 race in Canada your relations if any with the front runners and with your hopes about what might be
01:35:07.660 accomplished you know because we could have a conservative government in Quebec and a conservative
01:35:12.540 government federally hypothetically at some point in the next relatively short period of time you know
01:35:18.140 next few years uh maybe even sooner than that on the Quebec front who knows so what what what do you
01:35:25.040 see as the appropriate and desirable way forward in terms of your relationship with the federal
01:35:31.660 conservatives well to talk about my personal relation with the candidates running right now
01:35:37.340 uh you have to know that Jean Charest who's from Quebec who's the one of the the the the participant
01:35:43.700 in that race when he's uh he's a former premier so he was with the liberal party of Quebec I've been a
01:35:50.000 political opponent at the provincial level with him for uh for several years uh I know him but I we
01:35:56.020 never worked together uh Pierre Polyev is uh who's perceived as a front runner was a uh you know was a guy
01:36:03.160 that I worked with for many years even when he was a student uh working on Stockwell Day's leadership race
01:36:08.980 that's when I met him many many years ago um he even campaigned for me when I ran for the ADQ for
01:36:15.380 the Action Démocratique du Québec he he was a student working in Ottawa and decided to come for a
01:36:21.200 I think he spent a month with me campaigning on the in my constituency during those days so I've
01:36:26.820 known Pierre for ages uh and uh so we'll see but the you know it's not just the leader that is going
01:36:33.200 to be important but it's the direction that the party is going to take uh that for me is the most
01:36:37.980 important um I I hope that the party is going to be nationalist not not just Quebec nationalist but
01:36:44.320 Canada nationalist because I think that that's something lacking in Canada and Quebec right now
01:36:49.060 it's not normal that it's truckers and protesters that are using the flag and that the prime minister
01:36:54.600 is not like you know the just the fact that we saw that over the last few months should ring a bell
01:37:01.080 to many people um you know usually when you raise a flag it's because you're supporting the institution
01:37:07.660 uh the democratic institution of your country it's not because you're protesting against the people
01:37:12.560 who are supposed to represent you um and so the uh so I hope that you know the uh that's one that's
01:37:20.020 going to be one thing that the person is going to defend our interests nationally and uh that also it's
01:37:25.500 going to be a decentralist that is going to respect provincial rights and I think both both frontrunners
01:37:30.900 are uh are decentralists at a certain extent because Mr. Charest was a Quebec premier so he knows how
01:37:36.680 important it is for you know he knows provinces and and their powers uh I know Pierre I know that Pierre
01:37:42.800 is also a strong decentralist so I I think that's very important and it's going to be uh interesting and
01:37:49.040 it could you know if if there is a force provincially uh since Quebecers identify themselves more with the
01:37:55.580 provincial level than the federal level the conservative brand in Quebec could also have a push federally I
01:38:02.060 think uh because we're you know more and more people now are identifying themselves as conservatives
01:38:07.380 in Quebec and I'm 100% sure that it's going to have an impact even if it's not the same party uh you
01:38:13.560 know there's a link at many extent and people will it's going to be much easier to identify as a
01:38:19.500 conservative so I I think we could both help each other out but the the opposite is also true if I do
01:38:26.140 stupid things or the conservatives at the federal level do stupid things we're going to impact badly each
01:38:31.260 other and have a negative overall impact yeah well hopefully the conservatives in Canada will be able
01:38:37.100 to get themselves together on the organizational front and and be uh useful allies rather than
01:38:43.180 counterproductive and accidental opponents and so are there any other issues I that you would like to
01:38:52.540 put before the people who are viewing and listening and maybe also if people are interested in supporting you
01:38:59.660 um and and helping along with this with with the realization of your vision what would you recommend
01:39:08.780 that they do well if they're in Quebec of course they could get much more involved be they could
01:39:13.220 become member they could give us money you know that here it's limited to 200 dollars per just for the
01:39:19.420 election year the other years it's only 100 dollars we have laws that forbid anybody but people who have a
01:39:24.680 right to vote in Quebec to give money so corporations or anyone outside of Quebec it's forbidden um and
01:39:31.160 uh for the uh but every single Canadian 16 years old and older could become member of the party you can go
01:39:39.080 on conservative.quebec and then you can be a card carrying member even if you're outside of Quebec as
01:39:43.720 many Quebecers as an Albertan you know that many Quebecers live in Alberta nowadays because that's where
01:39:49.800 the jobs are for the oil and gas industry since we're depriving our people to have a right to work
01:39:55.320 in that industry in Quebec um so that's one thing they can do the uh and the strength of the movement
01:40:02.520 is also because it's not I don't see what's going on in Quebec right now honestly as a um as a political
01:40:09.480 party it's a movement it's not it's not because of me it's not because of conservative party it's something
01:40:14.680 coming from the grassroots and uh the uh there's a huge movement and those people are talking on the
01:40:21.640 social media talking to their neighbors their colleagues their families you know it's that's
01:40:27.000 the way it works and it becomes organic right now and just commenting and liking things on Facebook is
01:40:32.360 having an impact and we see it uh sharing this video right now will have an impact uh the you know
01:40:38.920 it's we it's small little things that we think don't change anything but it does have an impact as
01:40:44.360 much as I voting well you're you're a political operative and you have been for a long time
01:40:49.160 and you've learned how the system works I mean it's easy for young people in particular to think that
01:40:54.200 well there's no point for example in joining a political party because they just can't they'll just
01:41:00.200 be ignored and my experience because I've worked in political parties is exactly the opposite of that
01:41:05.000 is that if you're willing to commit especially initially on the volunteer front and you're good at it
01:41:11.960 the probability that doors will open to you with regard to your advancement is unbelievably high
01:41:17.640 and so has that has that been reflected in your experience huge and and uh and even more than that
01:41:23.720 for the upcoming election it's the participation rate we'll have to look at um because everything
01:41:29.960 that we're talking about and the fact that we're talking to crowds who usually don't even vote
01:41:34.040 uh is very very important we need to make sure that we motivate those people and they do you know
01:41:41.480 they they get out on on october 3rd and they go cast their vote and because we're probably going to
01:41:46.760 figure out the results before we even counted one single ballot just by looking at the participation
01:41:52.200 rate we're going to know if we won or lost the election and because this is all this is what and
01:41:57.560 it's not just in quebec and provincially it's everywhere right now I think when there's a movement like
01:42:02.040 this there's a grassroots movement if you want to know if it's successful or not look at the
01:42:06.440 participation rate if the participation rate is going up the roof you know that they're winning
01:42:11.480 and and in quebec last election for example two-thirds of voters did get out and vote so one-third of
01:42:17.080 people didn't go at all and that's for for us it's huge because we participate much more at the
01:42:22.120 provincial level than at the federal level that's another difference between quebec and canada
01:42:26.040 um the uh we you know the the people are more involved at the provincial than at the federal
01:42:31.480 level when it's time to vote and but this time we have to look at the participation rate and we have
01:42:36.360 to increase that so everything we're doing and the fact that we're not in the mainstream media
01:42:41.480 is also a reflect of uh that we're going outside of the normal box of voters and so people who are
01:42:48.360 listening then we can say to them well listen if you want to get involved if you're interested in the
01:42:53.640 ideas that have been discussed here and you find them in the least compelling you could take a risk
01:42:58.120 and join a political party um the party of your choice obviously in this case it would be the
01:43:02.760 conservatives it's not an expensive thing to do and if you're looking for something meaningful to be
01:43:08.120 engaged in participational political party can open that up to you and then the next most important
01:43:13.800 thing or perhaps even the more important thing given the immediacy of what's going on in quebec is that
01:43:19.480 if you are interested in these things and you think they're important then please vote get out and
01:43:26.280 vote yeah get out and vote because it matters and you know it's been the case in many elections
01:43:32.040 especially over the last couple of decades in many countries that the vote is actually determined by a
01:43:37.240 very small minority of people because they're so close exactly and so while you talk you talked about
01:43:42.120 the separatist vote 1995 what were the what was it 49.9 to 50.1 was it that close 49.6 to
01:43:49.400 50.4 if i recall properly uh right right so so so everyone's vote really did count and more
01:43:56.440 elections are like that than you think yeah and now we have five parties we have five parties in
01:44:00.760 quebec also which means that you don't need 50 percent plus one to win it's the the party that's
01:44:05.800 going to win it's going to be under 40 it's probably it's 30-ish percent that is going to make
01:44:10.200 a difference and 30-ish percent of two-thirds of people not voting so it means 22 percent so you
01:44:15.800 could lose 78 percent of voters and win an election right right right right so one of the
01:44:21.640 things i've been trying to do as i've been touring around is to suggest to people who've become cynical
01:44:26.280 that they shoulder a bit more civic responsibility it's like if you if you think the system can't be
01:44:31.720 changed in some incremental fundamental and responsible sense and you justify your own cynicism
01:44:38.360 and apathy with that presupposition you might want to test that out by doing something like joining a
01:44:43.640 civic organization or a political party and what you will find is that if you have the will the way
01:44:49.160 for you will be made way faster than you could possibly imagine and i think that might be more
01:44:53.880 true on the political front than in any other domain of activity because every political party i've ever
01:44:59.240 been associated with in any way is constantly starving for manpower work and money absolutely
01:45:05.880 so well it was really good talking to you today i'm i'm very pleased with the fact that you agreed
01:45:14.040 to speak with me and delighted to offer you the opportunity to delineate your views in some
01:45:20.200 more comprehensive sense in a relatively public square is there anything else you would like to say to
01:45:26.120 the people who are watching and listening either provincially federally or internationally before we close i
01:45:31.240 want to say merci beaucoup thank you very much it was a great talking to you and hopefully next time
01:45:36.520 we can chat face to face in in toronto or montreal that'd be good i'm coming to montreal in a month
01:45:42.360 and a half or so and so maybe we can arrange to do that then i might be premier at that time that well
01:45:47.480 then that would make it even even uh in some sense more exciting so um pleasure to meet you and i hope we
01:45:53.800 do get a chance to meet in person in the relatively near future hello everyone i would encourage you to
01:45:59.800 continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com