The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 306. Showdown with Ottawa： Alberta's New Premier ｜ Danielle Smith

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00:00:57.540 Hello, everyone watching and listening on YouTube and on the Associated Podcast.

00:01:16.100 I'm very honored today to have the new Premier of Alberta speaking with me, Danielle Smith,

00:01:22.100 who's quite a firebrand from the West.

00:01:24.840 Alberta, that's Canada's version of Texas, I suppose, and it's the province in Canada

00:01:29.740 that's blessed or cursed, depending on how you look at it, with, I think, the fourth largest

00:01:34.960 fossil fuel reserves in the world, which that province struggles continually to get to market 0.97

00:01:40.840 for reasons of idiocy that we're going to discuss in some detail in this podcast.

00:01:46.600 Premier Smith newly occupies the premiership role in Alberta and is starting to put her government in order 0.98

00:01:56.960 and to do battle, I would say, with the Liberals in Ottawa.

00:02:02.440 And that's partly what we're going to start talking about today, about the relationship between Alberta

00:02:08.040 and the federal government, historically and current.

00:02:11.900 Welcome to the conversation, Premier Smith.

00:02:15.000 It's very good to have you here.

00:02:16.800 Well, Professor Peterson, it's a delight to talk to you.

00:02:19.120 Thanks for having me on today.

00:02:20.080 So let's talk about Trudeau and the Liberals and what you have to offer Albertans as an alternative,

00:02:26.740 and Canadians, for that matter.

00:02:28.200 I know the Conservatives in Quebec are pretty interested in Alberta's push for increased provincial sovereignty.

00:02:34.400 So it's not as if you'd only be speaking for Albertans when you talk about a more distributed

00:02:39.840 balance of powers in this country, benighted country of ours.

00:02:44.400 I wonder if people know how our country has been established compared to others,

00:02:48.960 because as a confederation, there's a great deal of powers that have been given to the

00:02:54.440 provincial order or subnational level of government.

00:02:57.380 Not all governments are structured that way, and I think it creates a little bit of confusion

00:03:01.800 about why we have these battles in Canada.

00:03:04.500 I think because we have an international audience, I think walking through that would be very useful

00:03:08.960 for people as a beginning of the conversation.

00:03:11.800 Well, I might go back to an academic journal, because as soon as I started talking about the

00:03:16.140 Alberta Sovereignty Act, of course, there was a mass freakout in the

00:03:18.940 Eastern media.

00:03:20.180 And so I went back to an academic paper that had been written just after the Canada-U.S.

00:03:24.680 Free Trade Agreement had been written in 1993.

00:03:28.700 And at that time, they said, you have to be very mindful of how you implement international

00:03:33.840 trade agreements in the Canadian context, because there is a sovereign exclusive level

00:03:39.120 of jurisdiction at the federal level and a sovereign exclusive level of jurisdiction

00:03:42.840 at the provincial level.

00:03:44.480 And they used the term sovereignty interchangeably with autonomy.

00:03:49.760 It wasn't a provocative term back then.

00:03:52.580 And that is really the appropriate way of talking about how we are supposed to operate as a country,

00:03:57.280 that I have no more right to legislate in the federal areas of government.

00:04:02.480 I can't set up military bases.

00:04:04.220 I can't go out and negotiate international trade agreements on my own.

00:04:07.860 I can't, sadly, even manage passport offices, much as my residents here would probably wish

00:04:13.780 I could because they've been managed so poorly.

00:04:15.900 But it's supposed to be a two-way street.

00:04:18.540 That means that the federal government should not be legislating or interfering in our areas

00:04:22.820 of jurisdiction either.

00:04:24.680 And they do it all the time.

00:04:25.820 They pass legislation that is unconstitutional, force us to go to court to strike it down.

00:04:31.840 They are constantly reaching in to whether it's our municipal level of government or our

00:04:36.480 universities or our middle-level management in every single department, trying to get funding

00:04:42.340 deals so that we end up compromising what we want to do here in service of Ottawa interests.

00:04:48.060 And at the same time, they show massive disrespect to us as a province in being able to develop

00:04:53.700 our own resources.

00:04:55.160 So I can tell you that Albertans have had just about enough of this.

00:04:59.660 And we've had times in the past where we've had conservative governments at the federal level

00:05:04.500 who've been far more respectful of our jurisdiction and our rights.

00:05:07.680 Even we've had liberal governments in the past that were far more respectful of our jurisdiction

00:05:11.880 and rights.

00:05:12.420 The past seven years have been a catastrophe in our relationship with the federal government.

00:05:17.580 And as a result, we have to take some pretty dramatic steps in order to save Confederation,

00:05:22.620 to get the country working like it was originally intended to work.

00:05:26.740 And that's what the Sovereignty Act is about.

00:05:29.240 It's telling Ottawa, stay in your own lane.

00:05:32.180 Otherwise, we're going to put up a shield and we're just not going to enforce any of the

00:05:35.840 laws you're trying to impose on us that fall in our areas of jurisdiction or that violate

00:05:40.120 the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

00:05:41.380 And I've been delighted to see that having this conversation, it was initially sort of

00:05:45.820 shocking, I think, for the country, for Alberta to be talking this way.

00:05:49.360 But if you notice, Saskatchewan recently has put forward the Saskatchewan First Act, which

00:05:54.520 is very much along the lines of what we're proposing here.

00:05:57.400 So I think that we've started a bit of a trend.

00:05:59.340 And I think it is going to lead to a better country, a better Confederation.

00:06:04.760 Right.

00:06:05.180 So for everyone listening, Canada has 10 provinces and three territories.

00:06:09.120 And the provinces, as Premier Smith just pointed out, have a fair degree of autonomy and power

00:06:17.320 ceded to them.

00:06:18.340 So it's a distributed Confederation.

00:06:20.120 And Alberta is one of the most economically, has been one of the most economically successful

00:06:27.680 provinces in Canada for the last 30 or 40 years, primarily because of the energy industry when

00:06:32.620 it's not being cut off at the knees by the federal government.

00:06:35.320 And as Premier Smith pointed out, there's a constant battle for power, depending on how

00:06:41.560 centralized the federal government is between the federal government in Canada and the provinces.

00:06:47.660 And that's really reached a head again over the energy issue in Alberta.

00:06:53.480 So what's happened to the energy sector in Alberta since the Trudeau Liberals took power?

00:07:00.840 It's been devastated since 2014.

00:07:03.000 And some of that is technological change.

00:07:05.940 There was a new type of development called horizontal multi-stage fracking, which allowed

00:07:11.160 for us to open up massive oil and gas fields.

00:07:15.960 And as a result, the prices ended up collapsing.

00:07:18.180 So that happened just before the federal government got elected.

00:07:21.580 So we were already struggling in this province.

00:07:23.580 But then as we've been trying to find our feet, find new markets, we have been stymied at

00:07:29.220 every single step.

00:07:30.180 There are multiple, multi-billion dollar transmission projects, whether it's an Energy East pipeline

00:07:36.560 that was supposed to go to the Atlantic coast or the Northern Gateway project that was supposed

00:07:40.620 to go to the Western coast, or whether it's even Keystone XL that was supposed to go to

00:07:45.060 the U.S. Gulf coast.

00:07:46.600 Every single time that we have tried to find a way to get more of our products to market,

00:07:51.140 we have either had a federal government that has actively canceled it, in the case of the

00:07:55.940 Northern Gateway, actively stood in the way on the regulatory environment.

00:07:59.820 Energy East, they'd spent a billion dollars in the regulatory environment before pulling

00:08:03.760 the plug because they couldn't see a way to get to the finish line.

00:08:06.720 Or even Keystone XL.

00:08:08.000 Billion dollars.

00:08:08.560 Which U.S. President Joe...

00:08:09.560 Billion dollars.

00:08:11.040 Just in the regulatory process.

00:08:12.860 And then you had the Keystone XL project as well, which U.S. President Joe Biden canceled

00:08:17.900 within five seconds of becoming president.

00:08:19.720 We didn't have a single word of support that came from our national government.

00:08:23.720 And so that has been...

00:08:25.120 When you don't have takeaway capacity, now what's the point?

00:08:29.280 The international investors are looking and saying, what's the point in developing new

00:08:32.480 fields if there is no place for us to be able to get our product to market?

00:08:36.740 And so we have seen multi-billion dollar projects that have been canceled.

00:08:39.840 There have been...

00:08:40.560 Those I was just talking about with oil.

00:08:42.120 There was a major oil sands project called the Tech Frontier Mine.

00:08:47.700 Same story.

00:08:48.400 It would have been a 20 billion dollar project.

00:08:50.780 A billion dollars into the regulatory approval process.

00:08:53.140 They couldn't see a way to the finish line.

00:08:54.620 They pulled the plug.

00:08:55.740 There have been 18, I believe, different LNG projects that have been proposed.

00:09:00.380 Starting around the same time...

00:09:01.600 That's liquefied natural gas.

00:09:03.420 Yeah, well, that's the liquefied natural gas that the new leader of Germany came looking

00:09:08.960 for cap in hand, talking to Trudeau, who said that he couldn't make a business case for

00:09:13.300 that kind of transaction.

00:09:14.320 And then decided to make an agreement with SHOTS to ship non-existent hydrogen from non-existent

00:09:21.000 green plants on the East Coast to a country that's desperate for energy now.

00:09:25.200 You're following it very closely.

00:09:26.540 And we started talking about developing these plants at the same time Australia did and the

00:09:31.340 same time the U.S. did.

00:09:32.400 They are well along on that.

00:09:34.040 And we haven't even really gotten to square one.

00:09:36.460 And all of that is because of federal interference.

00:09:39.500 We have the ability to develop our resources at the provincial level.

00:09:44.080 So when we're talking about the subnational level of government, we have the exclusive

00:09:46.680 right to develop our resources, to develop conservation policy around them.

00:09:50.720 But the federal government has the right to develop the pipelines that go cross-border.

00:09:55.660 And they have stymied us at every single step.

00:09:58.280 And that is part of the reason we find ourselves at the impasse that we're at today.

00:10:01.900 I just feel like there is an absolute hostility on the part of Justin Trudeau and his environment

00:10:09.220 minister, Stephen Gibbo, towards our industry.

00:10:12.720 I mean, to talk about the ultimate slap in the face, when we had a referendum to try to

00:10:19.060 talk about a better way to share the wealth in the country, they take a lot of wealth out

00:10:23.280 of Alberta and don't have it come back our way.

00:10:26.300 When we had a referendum on that, the answer from the federal government was to give us Stephen

00:10:29.920 Gibbo, who earned his stripes by climbing the CN Tower to protest oil and gas development.

00:10:36.360 And so if that's the answer that the federal government gave us when we were trying to,

00:10:41.120 in good faith, seek a new arrangement with the rest of the country, we know where we stand.

00:10:45.120 And that's part of the reason why we're taking such a strong stance and pushing back.

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00:12:29.080 So I'm curious, so for those of you listening who aren't Canadian, and for many of those who

00:12:34.420 are, it's the case that there are transfer payments in Canada from richer provinces to

00:12:39.600 poorer provinces to try to balance out the economic status of the different regions of

00:12:45.160 the country.

00:12:45.720 And Alberta sends a tremendous amount of money out of the province.

00:12:49.540 And this referendum that you were referring to, I believe, was one that put the question

00:12:55.520 to Albertans about whether or not they wanted, essentially, they wanted the transfer payments

00:12:58.980 to continue, given the hostility of many of the recipient provinces to the mode by which

00:13:06.480 Alberta generates its revenue.

00:13:08.200 And I believe Albertans voted to cease offering the transfer payments.

00:13:13.900 What is it?

00:13:14.980 Have I got the story right?

00:13:16.000 And what became of that, all things considered?

00:13:19.080 I believe the transfer payments are still occurring as they were.

00:13:22.200 Yeah, it was essentially ignored by the federal government.

00:13:24.540 And we got a 62% mandate from Albertans.

00:13:27.340 And I think the thing to understand is that Albertans are very generous, because we've

00:13:31.400 put up with this disproportionate way of distributing resources for decades.

00:13:38.360 If you look at the amount of money that has come out of our little province to fuel the rest

00:13:43.380 of the country, it's $600 billion since the 1960s.

00:13:47.760 And the fact that we haven't put up a fuss before now is because we realized that there was a partnership

00:13:54.200 with the rest of the country, that we would develop our resources, we would ship them

00:13:58.920 to Eastern Canada, Eastern Canada would use our energy to develop products that we would

00:14:03.840 need, we would purchase them back.

00:14:05.820 And they've now broken that compact.

00:14:09.040 Not only do they want the dollars to keep on flowing to Eastern Canada, but they want

00:14:14.900 to stand in the way of us being able to develop more of our resources.

00:14:18.020 And that's part of the reason why I think, loud and clear, I'm hearing from Albertans

00:14:22.800 saying, you know, if that's the way you want to operate, maybe we should start thinking

00:14:27.320 regionally.

00:14:28.320 Maybe we should start developing partnerships with just the coalition of the willing, the

00:14:31.940 two adjacent provinces who share our values, maybe the American states, maybe going up

00:14:37.660 to northern Canada.

00:14:40.520 Maybe there isn't much point in us continuing this relationship where we have such a trade

00:14:46.280 imbalance with Quebec and Ontario if they're not going to assist us in getting our product

00:14:50.340 to market.

00:14:50.860 And that's the conversation that we're beginning now.

00:14:53.040 It seems a bit much to both have to deliver the money that's produced by the oil and gas

00:15:00.380 industry, and also to have the oil and gas industry demonized and shut down.

00:15:05.240 Like, you can't have both of those, right?

00:15:07.440 You could maybe get away with one.

00:15:09.640 But to get to, to ask for both is just, you know, it's funny, I used to live in Alberta,

00:15:14.400 it's a long time ago now, and I was, I would say fairly federally inclined when I lived

00:15:20.420 in Alberta.

00:15:21.180 I like the idea of Canada, but as I've been out in the East and watching what's been

00:15:25.580 happening to Alberta over the last, especially the last 10 years, and Saskatchewan for that

00:15:30.440 matter, I keep thinking it makes less and less sense.

00:15:33.880 The arrangement just makes less and less sense, especially now, especially given what's happening

00:15:38.320 on the oil and gas front.

00:15:39.680 It's so pathological.

00:15:40.900 And so why, why is Alberta still delivering the transfer payments? 0.91

00:15:45.000 We don't have, have much control over that because what happens is they overtax us at

00:15:49.300 the federal level.

00:15:50.000 This is sort of the, the, one of the flaws of our constitutional arrangement that we set

00:15:54.000 up is that the federal government can tax us into oblivion and then they hoard a pot of

00:15:58.600 money and then they sort of dribble it back to us saying, oh, if you run your programs

00:16:03.360 our way, then we'll transfer you some of the dollars back.

00:16:06.100 So they, the, the real problem with the, with the way the country operates is that the federal

00:16:11.040 government is, is taxing and taking more money than they, than they need.

00:16:14.360 And then they're using that federal spending power to essentially dictate to the provinces.

00:16:18.240 And that's a real problem.

00:16:19.340 That's part of the reason why, when you look at what Quebec has done, they start taking

00:16:22.360 back more authority over their provincial powers.

00:16:25.000 So they, they collect their own, their own income taxes.

00:16:28.220 And the reason why I think they ultimately want to do that is one day I think they want to

00:16:32.300 move to a more European style of system where each of the sub-national governments collect

00:16:36.660 all their own taxes and then they pay to the central authority only those dollars that go

00:16:42.080 to, to, to support the federal areas of jurisdiction.

00:16:45.220 And that I think is, is it, when Quebec moves in that direction, we need to be prepared to

00:16:49.280 move in that direction too.

00:16:50.380 But I think that's the evolution of where we're going.

00:16:52.360 Is Quebec farther ahead on that road than Alberta?

00:16:55.600 And is your plan to, to bring Alberta down that route?

00:16:58.740 And, and is Saskatchewan on board with that?

00:17:00.920 We are going to take as, as, as much action in our areas of jurisdiction as Quebec.

00:17:06.200 We want to be treated just like Quebec.

00:17:07.720 And Quebec has had the, the, the, the provincial tax collection powers for a number of years.

00:17:12.260 In fact, a couple of years ago, they put forward the motion exactly as I described.

00:17:16.140 They said, okay, now we want to be able to collect all taxes and we'll just remit to Ottawa

00:17:20.240 our share.

00:17:20.900 And even the Conservatives supported that motion.

00:17:23.660 So they're very close, I think, if there's a change of government at the federal level,

00:17:27.500 they're very close, I think, to being able to, to get that kind of arrangement.

00:17:30.920 And we don't want to be left behind.

00:17:32.520 We want exactly the same, the same treatment.

00:17:35.520 What stands in your way at the moment in, in, in, in practical terms in implementing

00:17:40.860 that?

00:17:41.200 What, why not?

00:17:42.720 Is there a reasons not to just move ahead with it?

00:17:45.440 I mean, it does seem to me to be that it's time for push to come to shove in, in Alberta

00:17:50.980 and Canada, because things are so absurd on the energy front.

00:17:54.080 And Alberta is fighting for its life, economic life in many ways.

00:17:58.440 I can't imagine that any, any investors with any sense are going to have the kind of confidence

00:18:04.020 that's necessary to invest in major oil and gas exploration projects, given the absolute

00:18:09.060 uncertainty with regards to delivery.

00:18:10.800 And, and to spend, you, you, you pointed out that in two different projects, two billion

00:18:17.340 dollars had been spent merely on trying to overcome regulatory hurdles before anything

00:18:23.980 of any practical significance whatsoever was brought.

00:18:26.720 It's no bloody wonder Trudeau could make a business case for liquid natural gas for

00:18:31.240 shots when his policies have made it bloody impossible for the entire country to produce

00:18:36.360 enough oil and gas to ship to our allies in Europe, let's say, even when they're freezing

00:18:40.700 in the dark.

00:18:42.020 Completely.

00:18:42.620 And this is the, the fundamental problem we have in Canada is that the, the power of trade

00:18:47.400 and commerce was given to our federal level of government with the idea that provinces

00:18:51.280 might be scrapping over jurisdiction and might be wanting to block each other's products.

00:18:55.600 And so the federal government was given that power so that they could streamline the process

00:19:00.080 to make sure that we could get our products to market.

00:19:02.260 They're using it in an offensive way.

00:19:03.880 They're using it to block access for our products to get to market.

00:19:07.280 So my view of it is this, that we were prepared to work collaboratively with the federal government

00:19:12.360 taking the lead, and now we're going to take the lead.

00:19:15.300 And what that looks like, and I just recently wrote a letter to Scott Moe, the premier of

00:19:20.260 Saskatchewan, and Heather Stephenson, the premier of Manitoba, because if we could get an economic

00:19:25.620 trade route along our northern territories between our three provinces, we can get access to a

00:19:31.200 port that will allow us to export our products internationally.

00:19:35.000 And so I, I propose that we meet in Churchill, which is the foundation for a port that, that

00:19:39.740 might be able to begin that, that process.

00:19:41.940 And, but that's not the only one.

00:19:43.320 I mean, we could, and I'll tell you the difference on this, because the, the issue that we have

00:19:47.660 right now is we've been making our proponents of a pipeline fight every little battle on their

00:19:51.860 own.

00:19:52.180 So they propose the route.

00:19:54.160 Then they have to negotiate with every single landowner.

00:19:56.820 They have to negotiate with every single municipality.

00:19:58.580 They have to negotiate with the different levels of government.

00:20:00.940 They have to negotiate with the federal government.

00:20:02.320 Then they have to go through court and there's First Nations.

00:20:04.160 And then on top of that, you can have a court process that throws the whole thing out.

00:20:08.480 So if we reverse that process and said, you know what, we're going to do the work in

00:20:12.320 advance, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, we're going to get together and we're going to

00:20:16.620 identify the corridor.

00:20:17.620 We're going to work with our First Nations and Métis to make them equal partners in ownership.

00:20:21.000 We're going to address the environmental issues of caribou habitat and other endangered

00:20:25.820 species.

00:20:26.780 We're going to make sure that we're avoiding the areas that are archaeologically or ceremonially

00:20:32.840 significant for our First Nations communities.

00:20:35.640 And once this corridor is built, then we'll invite the proponent to come in because then

00:20:40.740 we will have done our work of clearing away all those hurdles and be able to reduce those

00:20:44.920 billions of dollars in regulatory costs.

00:20:46.920 And that's a scrap that I'm willing to have with the federal government.

00:20:49.580 This is their work and they have failed to do this.

00:20:52.600 We've been asking for them to do this since the 1930s.

00:20:55.120 We've got a fantastic relationship with our First Nations communities, of which a hundred

00:20:59.980 of them are oil and gas producers themselves.

00:21:02.540 They want to get their product to market too.

00:21:04.940 And so I believe if it comes down to it and the federal government tells us, wait a minute,

00:21:09.420 you're invading our jurisdiction, I'll just say, look, we've got the right to develop our

00:21:13.000 resources, conserve them, get them to market.

00:21:15.120 Our First Nations, under the UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous People, they have the

00:21:19.620 right to be able to develop their resources too.

00:21:21.540 And I think that we'll win that scrap if it goes to the court.

00:21:24.760 But I think we have to start taking the lead, stop acting like a junior player, start acting

00:21:28.780 like a senior partner and get some of these built.

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00:22:40.880 Yeah, well, for everyone watching and listening, Alberta is a landlocked province.

00:22:45.580 The provinces in Canada are stacked up from east to west, and so the province to the

00:22:51.460 west of Alberta is British Columbia, and they have a huge coast, but British Columbia tends

00:22:56.720 to vote more left and socialist, and it's been very difficult.

00:23:00.220 Again, stop me if I'm speaking out of turn here, but it's been very difficult over many

00:23:04.880 decades for Alberta to negotiate with British Columbia to get its products out to the west

00:23:10.040 coast.

00:23:10.420 And so that's a big problem.

00:23:12.300 But is Churchill, is the Hudson Bay, because the Hudson Bay is the coastline of Manitoba,

00:23:18.680 it's in the centre of Canada, is the coastline, are the ports in Manitoba suitable for export

00:23:28.540 use for these sorts of projects?

00:23:30.800 I have a number of technical experts who've been working on developing different proposals,

00:23:36.440 and my understanding is the answer to that is yes.

00:23:39.280 There is also a port a little bit further south that I think is open and ice-free more

00:23:44.920 months year-round.

00:23:46.440 But look at Russia. 0.56

00:23:48.320 I mean, Russia is not, they're not saying, oh, there's some ice in the way, we can't

00:23:52.080 build there.

00:23:53.060 They said, oh, there's ice in the way, let's get 47 icebreakers. 0.99

00:23:57.360 And to me, if we have the technology to be able to keep these ports cleared year-round,

00:24:02.560 we just have to have the political will to work together on getting the work done.

00:24:06.780 And in the past, maybe it's because you have to deal with multiple jurisdictions, there's

00:24:11.220 election cycles, and it becomes difficult.

00:24:13.060 I think we were also holding out hope that some sense of sweet reason might set in at

00:24:18.380 the federal level.

00:24:19.220 Yeah, well, you can forget that.

00:24:21.120 It appears not.

00:24:21.740 I mean, if even in this environment where we are facing, because of the Russian invasion

00:24:27.240 of Ukraine, we're facing massive disruption in our supply chains, massive disruption in

00:24:32.960 our ability to get a secure supply of energy, massive disruption in affordability for our

00:24:39.280 citizens all around the world, great fears about what might happen in winter in Germany

00:24:43.620 if we don't fill this gap.

00:24:44.640 If reason hasn't set in with that as a backdrop, then we owe it to the world to take the lead

00:24:51.320 in making sure that we provide energy security as well as energy affordability.

00:24:55.720 And we can't wait for the federal government to negotiate on this on our behalf.

00:25:00.780 Yeah, well, it sounds like that could be a real boon to the people of Manitoba, too.

00:25:04.900 I mean, Manitoba is often a kind of economically underpowered province.

00:25:08.260 There's not that many people there, but a thriving port industry there seems like just the ticket

00:25:13.600 for Manitoba.

00:25:14.600 It'd be lovely to see Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba form a coalition that had the kind

00:25:20.460 of political power and population that could serve as a buttress against the centralists.

00:25:25.300 And the people in the East who think they don't need oil and gas or energy, except they still

00:25:30.260 want the money from the West, which I still, it's so appalling, that attitude, that it's

00:25:35.060 almost indescribable.

00:25:36.380 Well, let me add a layer to that, too, because when I spoke with Premier Stephenson, I'd asked

00:25:40.720 her if they had ever scoped out what it would look like to build transmission lines back to

00:25:46.120 Alberta so that we could have non-carbon dioxide emissions fuel in the form of hydroelectric

00:25:53.780 power coming to fuel our oil sands development.

00:25:56.940 And I gather they've never really even considered that.

00:26:00.020 But that's the kind of win-win that we're looking for.

00:26:02.520 Because the other part, too, is that as our bitumen becomes more valuable, it gets put

00:26:07.300 on rail cars because we can't put it into pipelines.

00:26:10.200 When you put it on rail cars, now you're crowding out all of our grain producers.

00:26:14.380 And so we need to not only build pipelines for oil, for gas.

00:26:18.780 We can build transmission lines.

00:26:20.380 We can also look at building new highway, new rail line.

00:26:23.460 And that's when you start getting a full-service corridor.

00:26:25.800 That's the kind of proposal that our First Nations communities have told us that they want

00:26:29.800 to see so that we can start building out some of our northern territories as well.

00:26:33.600 But this notion as well that if we can bring in some lower emissions electricity and power

00:26:40.300 to be able to develop our resources, then what in the world would Stephen Gabbot and Justin

00:26:46.200 Trudeau have to complain about?

00:26:47.660 That's the vision that our oil sense producers have, incidentally.

00:26:51.660 They don't, the green types, they don't even support nuclear power. 0.98

00:26:55.500 They don't support liquid natural gas.

00:26:57.440 The fact that Americans used fracking allowed the U.S. to cut its carbon dioxide emissions

00:27:03.080 15% from 2000 to 2015, or I think it was 12%.

00:27:08.240 They're the only industrialized country that has done that.

00:27:10.840 And they did it because of fracking.

00:27:12.980 And the greens oppose fracking.

00:27:14.400 And they oppose nuclear.

00:27:15.300 And so looking for logic in that rat's nest of, what would you say, utopian moralizing

00:27:22.620 is absolutely pointless.

00:27:24.060 And you pointed out something very germane, I think, is that given the severity of the

00:27:30.260 energy crisis that's confronting Europe, if that in and of itself isn't enough to wake

00:27:36.700 up the people who are putting the brakes on nuclear power and on liquid natural gas development,

00:27:42.920 then nothing short of mass starvation is going to wake them up, and probably not even that.

00:27:48.300 And so it does look to me like the time, the iron is hot and it's time to strike it.

00:27:53.160 And the West could, not only I think could the West do an excellent job of this, Saskatchewan,

00:27:58.240 Manitoba, and Alberta, but I think that that triad of provinces would find tremendous amount

00:28:04.640 of international support for doing so.

00:28:06.460 And that's another thing that might be worth considering on the strategic front is to be

00:28:11.960 looking for allies in Europe and in the UK and in the United States that would put their

00:28:17.460 full weight behind such projects.

00:28:19.540 And those people definitely exist.

00:28:21.760 And we do absolutely need to do that.

00:28:23.880 I want to talk just for a minute, if I could, about this environmental piece, because I think

00:28:28.880 that this is the problem, is that the extinction rebellion types, you know, the ones who are

00:28:33.840 gluing themselves to sidewalks and the top of subway cars and the headquarters of buildings,

00:28:40.080 I have no idea why anyone is giving them any airtime whatsoever.

00:28:45.200 That is an extremist group that I do not think represents the genuine concern that more moderate

00:28:51.500 environmentalists have about the challenges that we face.

00:28:53.940 I'm looking at someone like Michael Schellenberger, who has emerged as such a reasonable voice

00:28:59.700 on the environment.

00:29:00.520 He's very concerned about emissions, and I get that.

00:29:02.900 But he also has realized that we are not going to address issues of emissions and environmental

00:29:09.420 harms by focusing on wind and solar and battery power.

00:29:15.700 And I think he's done some brilliant work on this, because we, and also, I might also give

00:29:20.200 a shout out to Michael Moore with his Planet of the Humans documentary.

00:29:23.200 That kind of blew it all wide open, where we now have begun to have a conversation that

00:29:28.400 guess what?

00:29:29.100 You cannot produce a wind turbine with a wind turbine, because there's a lot of steel that

00:29:33.800 comes from coal, and there's a lot of fiberglass that also comes from fossil fuels.

00:29:37.720 And you have to transport 1,500 truckloads to get it to a site using fossil fuels.

00:29:42.840 And so until you have a situation where you've got solar and concrete and transportation fuels

00:29:50.200 and fiberglass that are emissions-free, those are not emissions-free sources of production.

00:29:55.520 And besides that, they're intermittent.

00:29:57.380 So because they're intermittent, you have to build three times as many of them.

00:30:00.000 And when you have to build three times as many of them, you're eating up a lot of landscape.

00:30:03.880 And when you're eating up a lot of landscape and putting these turbines up, well, now you're

00:30:06.520 also putting, if they're in the path of migratory birds, you're killing birds and bats.

00:30:10.260 And why aren't we talking about all of the environmental impacts that come from that,

00:30:15.480 so that we can have a fulsome discussion?

00:30:17.260 This is the thing that I...

00:30:18.280 Well, look, I think part of the reason is that people are looking for easy moral virtue,

00:30:23.940 you know?

00:30:24.300 And so it's easy to be virtuous by having a messy life and saving the planet.

00:30:30.840 And then it's simplest to save the planet by concentrating on one thing.

00:30:34.660 And then it's simplest to concentrate on carbon dioxide, as if that's the only environmental

00:30:39.900 challenge that confronts us. 0.94

00:30:41.340 And so you have this overweening, prideful, and ignorant requirement to put yourself forward 0.97

00:30:48.600 as some kind of planetary savior. 0.93

00:30:50.960 You reduce the complexity of that problem to opposing carbon.

00:30:54.680 And then if you can stick it to the rich just as an additional benefit to your envy, so much

00:31:00.100 the better.

00:31:00.540 No one wants to talk like Bjorn Lomberg talks about the multidimensional environmental challenges

00:31:06.280 that confront us, about rank ordering them in some kind of economically intelligent way,

00:31:11.380 you know, and in treating the challenges that confront us like adults might do it instead

00:31:16.740 of like Greta Thunberg might do it. 1.00

00:31:18.980 And I think the treatment that's been handed out to her is exactly emblematic of the whole

00:31:23.340 problem.

00:31:24.040 She's a relatively eccentric 13-year-old girl.

00:31:29.460 She doesn't know anything about how the world works.

00:31:32.640 And yet, green leaders around the world kowtow to her like she's some sort of Dionysian prophetess.

00:31:39.760 And that's a real indictment of the situation that we find ourselves in.

00:31:44.220 You know, what I think we have to do, though, is that we've got to elevate the voices that

00:31:49.560 are aligned with us.

00:31:50.460 Voices like Bjorn Lomberg and voices like Michael Schellenberger.

00:31:53.400 Because this notion of energy density is really the key to being able to reduce the impact

00:32:00.100 on the planet.

00:32:01.060 And this is why Schellenberger is a supporter not only of nuclear and small modular nuclear

00:32:07.320 reactors are becoming increasingly of interest to different jurisdictions.

00:32:11.580 But also, he's a supporter of LNG because you can have a smaller footprint in developing

00:32:17.600 those.

00:32:17.980 And when you have a smaller footprint, you're going to have, just by definition, less impact

00:32:22.540 on the environment.

00:32:23.340 And that, to me, I think what I worry about in the—I call myself a libertarian conservative.

00:32:28.600 Maybe we'll get into what that actually means.

00:32:30.180 But what I worry about on our side of the spectrum is that we only talk in dollars and

00:32:35.680 cents.

00:32:35.980 And we don't address this environmental piece.

00:32:38.460 This is the emotional piece that everybody cares about.

00:32:41.300 I mean, I was born in 71.

00:32:42.900 The first Earth Day was 1970.

00:32:44.920 So I grew up surrounded by that environmental messaging.

00:32:48.980 And I think we have ceded the ground to the extremists, like Extinction Rebellion.

00:32:54.240 And we haven't elevated the more moderate environmental voices.

00:32:57.620 And that, to me, is going to be my big challenge, is that I want people to understand that, yes,

00:33:02.620 we can provide energy security.

00:33:04.620 Yes, we can address issues of affordability.

00:33:06.380 And we can do it in a way that is going to be the most environmentally responsible, bar

00:33:11.060 none, looking at all of the other options and all of the other producers around the

00:33:14.400 world.

00:33:14.780 That is going to be, I think, our big communication challenge.

00:33:17.660 But I think that that's the way that we start building those allies that you're talking

00:33:21.300 about in Europe.

00:33:21.940 Yeah, well, it would be great for conservatives in Canada, and I would say across the world,

00:33:26.980 to reach out to people like Schellenberger and Lombard, perhaps above all else.

00:33:31.000 Because they have extraordinarily well thought out arguments on the environmental front, and

00:33:38.840 also are astute economically.

00:33:41.740 And that's a rare combination.

00:33:43.840 And the conservatives have erred tremendously, and the central liberals as well, the middle

00:33:48.980 of the road liberals, by letting the radicals take the moral upper hand on the environment

00:33:54.200 front.

00:33:54.560 And their story, you know, you look at what's going to happen in Europe and around the world,

00:33:59.980 likely this winter, as we put tremendous stress on poor people by jacking up energy

00:34:05.260 and food prices.

00:34:06.280 All that's going to be disastrous for the planet.

00:34:09.200 In the terms that the environmentalists themselves hypothetically hold dear, the idea that we

00:34:14.300 can make the planet more habitable on the environmental front by impoverishing poor people, by raising 0.99

00:34:21.400 energy prices and food prices, is absolutely, it's not only absurd logically, but I think

00:34:29.900 it's tantamount to genocidal in its intent.

00:34:33.260 It's really appalling.

00:34:34.600 It creates grave danger.

00:34:36.660 For those who are on fixed income going into an environment, especially in our northern climates,

00:34:42.160 January, February, March, April, it's dangerous not to have reliable power, not to be able to

00:34:48.080 have reliable home heating.

00:34:49.980 And we have to be mindful that, as you say, the people most impacted by that are the ones

00:34:54.520 at the lower end of the income scale.

00:34:56.180 And so if you are forcing a senior citizen to make a choice of reducing their food bill

00:35:01.120 or reducing their pharmaceuticals so that they can keep their electricity and their heating

00:35:04.580 on, those are not decisions that any government should be forcing their people to make.

00:35:09.980 But that's the decision that this is logically where the policies of those on the extreme

00:35:16.420 green left have led to, is that they are now sacrificing those at the lower end of the

00:35:21.400 income scale, which they put their heart on the sleeve and they say that that's who they

00:35:24.640 care about.

00:35:25.640 But it is just demonstrably untrue when you see the impact of it.

00:35:30.740 And I'll add one more to it.

00:35:32.200 The only people that I have heard talk about the plight of those who are living in countries

00:35:37.920 that do not have reliable energy and the impoverishment that occurs from it are some of the energy

00:35:43.200 executives that are at our global conferences.

00:35:45.700 This is part of the reason why we need to get reliable natural gas around the world, because

00:35:50.140 when you look at some of the most impoverished countries in the world, they're using wood

00:35:54.720 and dung and coal to heat their homes.

00:35:58.880 I talked to somebody, a researcher in British Columbia, who said we have 44 million deaths per

00:36:04.540 year because of indoor air quality problems.

00:36:08.820 And so why is that not elevated as an issue that we know we can solve by having these secure

00:36:15.280 types of energy?

00:36:16.820 The LNG is going to be a solution.

00:36:18.960 And specifically, that's a great question.

00:36:21.180 If there were 5,000 deaths from nuclear power a year, which there aren't, the legacy press

00:36:28.920 and the left-wing liberal types would be all over that like mad.

00:36:33.400 But the fact that there are 40 million people or thereabouts a year who die from indoor pollution

00:36:38.080 from using substandard fuels, which, by the way, are not environmentally friendly in the

00:36:41.900 broader sense either, that just goes under the radar completely.

00:36:44.920 And so you look at facts like that, and that's a bloody, blatant fact, that one.

00:36:50.680 And it's children that are disproportionately affected on that front, too.

00:36:54.080 And then you also look at the willingness of the so-called leftists who are hypothetically

00:36:59.520 in favor of the poor to impoverish the poor as a consequence of their non-effective green

00:37:05.520 policies.

00:37:06.160 And you really have to ask, well, just what the hell is driving this?

00:37:09.020 And the only answer that I can think of is that it's something fundamentally predicated

00:37:14.180 on envy and that the desire to bring down the capitalist system that produces those who

00:37:20.340 are richer than the typical environmentalist, let's say, that takes precedence over everything.

00:37:25.700 It takes precedence over care for the poor.

00:37:27.940 It takes precedence even over hypothetical care for the planet.

00:37:31.860 It's like tear the bloody capitalist system down, and it doesn't matter what or who gets

00:37:36.480 destroyed in the process.

00:37:37.960 Because otherwise, how do you explain it?

00:37:39.460 Like the indoor air pollution fact alone, it's like that's incomprehensible.

00:37:44.300 Obviously, the thing to do is to get cheap energy that's clean, as clean as possible,

00:37:49.960 to developing countries as fast as possible.

00:37:52.940 And then, you know, on the environmental side, the stats are pretty damn clear that if you

00:37:56.500 can get the gross domestic product of a country up to something averaging approximately $5,000

00:38:01.980 U.S. a year, then people start taking a long view and caring about the environment.

00:38:07.480 And so it's quite obvious that if we did everything we could to eradicate absolute poverty,

00:38:13.920 mostly by driving energy prices down, then we could get people off of their reliance on

00:38:19.460 those primitive biofuels that poisoned them and poisoned the planet and denued the territory, 0.78

00:38:24.660 and we could get them caring about the environment.

00:38:27.020 And so why not do that?

00:38:29.780 Okay, now do you want to become Premier of Alberta?

00:38:32.120 Because this is exactly the points that I want to see made on the international stage.

00:38:37.480 And I don't know why it's so hard to get these messages out.

00:38:40.680 It does seem, and maybe it is, that we're facing something that is more of a culture war

00:38:45.560 underneath the surface, that we think it's about solving environmental issues, and we think

00:38:50.360 it's about caring for those who are vulnerable, and we think it's about obliterating international 0.94

00:38:56.180 poverty.

00:38:56.840 And it's not.

00:38:57.660 It's about something else altogether.

00:38:59.180 And I would say I need to be very, very clear, because I know the world keeps on talking about

00:39:04.140 some transition to some other fuel that might someday exist in the future.

00:39:09.840 And I'm going to tell you that our messaging here is going to be very, very different.

00:39:14.320 We are not going to transition out of oil or natural gas.

00:39:19.060 We're going to transition away from emissions.

00:39:21.100 We're going to produce these products in a way that has lower and lower emissions.

00:39:24.240 And we've got great technology to be able to do it.

00:39:27.120 We're learning how to capture CO2 and to embed it into products to make them more durable

00:39:31.560 or bury them underground.

00:39:33.360 We're talking about developing out our hydrogen economy.

00:39:36.900 LNG is going to be one way that we're able to reduce more polluting fuels around the world

00:39:40.780 and reduce global emissions.

00:39:42.360 But when you start doing all of these things, one of the things I don't think is well understood

00:39:46.020 is that out of a barrel of oil comes about 6,000 different products.

00:39:51.240 And not all of them are combustion.

00:39:52.540 About 70% of them aren't.

00:39:54.020 We've got lubricants and plastics and building material, asphalt.

00:39:58.160 So even the enthusiasts of zero-emission vehicles, they're going to need roads to drive them on,

00:40:03.320 which means that we are going to need to produce bitumen.

00:40:05.680 And if we can produce bitumen with lower and lower emissions, then this is a win for everybody.

00:40:11.100 This is a win for the environment.

00:40:12.320 It's a win for the economy.

00:40:13.640 It's a win for affordability.

00:40:14.860 It's even a win for the environmentalists, though they don't realize this.

00:40:17.260 And so we need to get away from any notion that these fuels are going to be kept in the ground. 0.55

00:40:23.880 I think it's as ludicrous to talk about phasing out oil and natural gas as it is ludicrous

00:40:30.520 to talk about phasing out concrete or phasing out steel.

00:40:34.680 We are increasingly using our base products for construction materials, for plastics.

00:40:41.160 And we are always going to need to have those.

00:40:43.440 And as Michael Schellenberger has pointed out, again, quite brilliantly, is that when you start

00:40:47.920 using these types of alternative construction materials, it means that you don't need to

00:40:52.780 go to the natural environment to be able to harvest them there.

00:40:56.620 And so you're able to preserve more habitat.

00:40:58.460 You're able to preserve more of the environment.

00:41:00.700 We just need a paradigm shift in how we talk about the environment.

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00:41:34.820 You said you don't necessarily think that what's going on is about the kind of micro-issues

00:41:40.540 that you just described.

00:41:41.720 And I think that's absolutely true.

00:41:43.460 You know, I've been working with conservatives internationally and centralist liberals, too,

00:41:48.160 on the construction of something like a more profound underlying traditionalist narrative.

00:41:55.760 And I think what's happened, too, is the conservatives, the traditionalists, and the liberals increasingly

00:42:02.000 have been set back on their heels by the increasingly strident moralistic claims of the radical leftists

00:42:08.060 and haven't really been able to respond to that properly and have been, in some sense,

00:42:13.080 what would you say, the victims of their own guilt.

00:42:17.660 You know, because the thing about conservative types is that they tend to be conscientious.

00:42:22.540 And so if you go after them for not doing their duty, they tend to take that quite seriously.

00:42:27.360 And so when the left levies on accusations of less than dutiful behavior against conservatives,

00:42:34.420 the first thing the conservatives do is get guilty.

00:42:36.540 It's like, well, we probably could pollute a little less more.

00:42:39.020 We could be a little less sexist.

00:42:40.740 We could be a little less racist.

00:42:42.440 We're sorry.

00:42:43.100 It's like, it's time to stop being sorry.

00:42:45.240 It really is on the conservative front to say, look, your bloody policies are not only raising

00:42:51.080 energy prices to levels that are absolutely unconscionable, but certainly dooming a large

00:42:56.340 percentage of the population in the world and in the Western world as well to undo poverty

00:43:02.540 and privation.

00:43:03.500 And you're not doing a damn thing on the planetary front.

00:43:05.920 In fact, you're making the situation worse.

00:43:07.780 And so we've had enough of your cheap moralizing.

00:43:10.020 We're going to go ahead with what the adults do, which is to deal with the world as it is.

00:43:14.160 You know, I got some stats from Bjorn Lomborg recently.

00:43:17.680 I just wrote an article for The Telegraph that's quite popular about delusional, genocidal

00:43:24.200 globalists and their willingness to sacrifice the poor.

00:43:27.960 And Lomborg pointed out that the International Energy Agency and the Biden government have both

00:43:33.920 projected that we won't be at 100% renewable energy till at least 2240.

00:43:41.920 Right?

00:43:42.400 Not 2035 or 2050.

00:43:44.640 That'll still be at best at something like 20%, assuming everything that's planned works

00:43:49.680 out, which it won't.

00:43:51.480 And so the idea that we're going to somehow transition to these magical technologies that

00:43:56.180 are just going to suddenly appear is absolutely preposterous, even when you don't take into

00:44:00.580 account the facts that you laid out, which is we make all sorts of other things from oil.

00:44:05.380 And so what are we going to do?

00:44:06.320 Stop making them?

00:44:07.260 It's like, well, maybe, because you don't need those if you're going to decrease your

00:44:11.140 carbon load.

00:44:11.980 You know, I mean...

00:44:12.800 We're never going to get to 100% renewable.

00:44:15.020 I may as well just put that on the table.

00:44:17.400 Because when you think about what you need to get to 100% renewable, especially if you're

00:44:20.940 talking about battery power to back it up, where are we going to get the lithium and

00:44:24.960 the cobalt and the nickel?

00:44:26.420 You have to mine the surfaces in order to do that.

00:44:30.460 But the environmentalists are opposed to mining as well.

00:44:32.600 Every time you try to get a mining operation going, you've got a wall and an army of environmentalists

00:44:37.920 trying to stop you there also.

00:44:39.720 You have to move a lot of Earth in order to be able to develop all of those resources to

00:44:45.460 be able to feed the battery power.

00:44:46.940 And you have to use a lot of landscape in order to put on the solar panels and the wind

00:44:50.840 turbines.

00:44:51.420 I think Lomburg has estimated that there is something under 10 minutes of battery power, sufficient

00:44:57.080 battery power in Europe to power the European power grid at the moment.

00:45:01.120 Something like, I think it's actually three minutes.

00:45:04.060 It's somewhere between three and 10 minutes.

00:45:06.260 And all the vaunted improvements in battery technology that we're supposed to be zipping

00:45:10.300 along like mad by now haven't manifested themselves.

00:45:13.260 And so that's a non-starter as well.

00:45:16.200 Well, let me tell you what I think the future is, honestly.

00:45:18.400 And I think Canada is well on its way in helping to develop this future.

00:45:22.280 I think hydroelectric power is the future.

00:45:24.360 I think nuclear is the future, particularly small modular nuclear reactors, which we're going

00:45:28.760 to be rolling out in Ontario and New Brunswick very shortly.

00:45:31.840 And then on top of that, developing natural gas and using carbon technology to capture the

00:45:36.880 emissions so that you're not putting anything into the atmosphere.

00:45:39.620 Those to me are the, and perhaps even geothermal.

00:45:42.520 We have to be looking at ways that you can get secure, reliable baseload that doesn't have

00:45:47.180 a huge external impact on the environment across the whole range of environmental impacts.

00:45:53.580 And I think we have to get away from this idea that solar and wind are the only answer.

00:45:58.080 It's sort of interesting you said that there's this envy or this hostility to capitalism.

00:46:03.300 I see it a little differently.

00:46:05.180 I feel like those on the other side of the spectrum have their own favorite capitalists

00:46:10.240 that they like to support.

00:46:11.720 You mean like pharmaceutical companies?

00:46:14.660 Well, there's a heck of a lot of subsidies that go to wind and solar panels, solar power

00:46:19.200 as well.

00:46:20.100 And so I think really that's what we're seeing is that there's a multi-trillion dollar market

00:46:24.200 at play here and that we've got two different interests that are lining up.

00:46:30.820 And one of those interests on the other side is also seeking to have a huge amount of government

00:46:36.200 support for it.

00:46:36.980 And I tend to believe in free enterprise.

00:46:39.840 If something is going to be supported, it should be able to be supported on the basis of

00:46:44.220 the market, that it's the best use of the resources, the lowest cost, delivering the

00:46:49.960 best product for the lowest price.

00:46:52.060 That is how we're supposed to be operating.

00:46:54.260 If we're going to be operating from a position of crony capitalism where you just have to

00:46:59.400 get your guy elected and then you can secure a bunch of grants so that you can push your

00:47:04.080 agenda forward, that's, I think, what has been driving things for the last 10 or 20 years.

00:47:09.780 Yeah, well, I also think that's another undiscovered area for genuine traditionalists, conservatives

00:47:17.040 and liberals alike to start making headway on the moral front is that a little less crony

00:47:22.620 capitalism would be a good thing because crony capitalism is really fascism, to give it its

00:47:26.940 proper terminology.

00:47:28.340 And this collusion between huge industry and huge government, that's got to stop.

00:47:32.320 It's not the free enterprise market that properly responds to transformations of demand and supply.

00:47:42.480 It's top-down collusion and it's aided and abetted by very large players.

00:47:46.360 And that's really got out of hand as well.

00:47:48.380 I think the conservatives would do well to address that as much as they possibly can.

00:47:52.300 You're very right.

00:47:53.360 You talked about small nuclear modular reactors.

00:47:56.360 What's happening on the Canadian front in relationship to that?

00:48:00.240 What do you see as promising?

00:48:01.300 Well, we have an expert in nuclear development in Ontario.

00:48:06.440 The Ontario market is powered 60% on their power grid by nuclear.

00:48:10.960 And so they are looking at ways of bringing these smaller units.

00:48:15.020 I think some as low as 15 megawatts, some in the 50 to 200 megawatt range.

00:48:21.220 And this is proven technology.

00:48:22.940 I mean, if you look at nuclear submarines, we've managed to find a way very safely to have men

00:48:27.600 men and women in nuclear submarines powered by this kind of small-scale technology.

00:48:33.120 So now it's a matter of going through the regulatory process, getting it approved, getting it implemented,

00:48:37.240 proving it out so that we can get it into other markets.

00:48:40.840 So in New Brunswick, my understanding is they're rolling out one of these very small ones under 15 megawatts by 2026.

00:48:48.000 And in Darlington in Ontario, they're rolling out a small one in 2028.

00:48:52.500 And so once that begins, there's no reason why our oil sands producers wouldn't be able to use that technology to develop their products.

00:49:01.060 And that also then will reduce the overall emissions of our energy sector.

00:49:05.300 So those are the things that we're watching.

00:49:07.340 But of course, the federal government stands in the way, even on these promising technologies,

00:49:11.740 they stand in the way of allowing those to go through a streamlined regulatory approval.

00:49:16.860 And it's because, again, we have an environment minister who takes this paradigm view

00:49:21.940 that the only way that we can develop electricity is to use the sources that he thinks we ought to use.

00:49:29.800 And that excludes natural gas and that excludes nuclear.

00:49:32.680 So that's another big battle coming up because I think that Canada will be able to export that to the world

00:49:39.680 and also reduce overall global emissions if we can just get our policies right.

00:49:44.280 I should say, incidentally, Europe is already there.

00:49:46.740 Europe has already allows for green bonds to be issued for nuclear developments

00:49:51.880 as well as for natural gas developments with a carbon capture component to it.

00:49:58.740 It's Canada who has also an advantage in developing these types of energy sources

00:50:03.900 that our federal government is standing in the way.

00:50:05.680 And so I think that gives us some common cause with our friends in the rest of the country,

00:50:09.300 particularly Ontario, in making that argument more broadly.

00:50:11.900 So what's happening on the political front in Alberta at the moment?

00:50:18.620 When's the next election?

00:50:19.960 How are the Conservatives doing in Alberta?

00:50:22.520 How are you negotiating with your primary opponents, which is the Socialists, the NDP in Alberta?

00:50:28.760 And what does the political horizon look like for you at the moment in Alberta?

00:50:35.880 We had a change in leadership because, obviously, we had some internal conflict in our party.

00:50:41.900 Around some of the issues that we've been talking about, are we getting our fight out to Ottawa enough?

00:50:48.200 I think some of our supporters were feeling that we weren't fighting Ottawa enough on our areas of jurisdiction.

00:50:55.320 We weren't getting progress on being able to get our energy to market.

00:50:58.680 We weren't getting progress on changing the transfer program in our country.

00:51:03.840 And also on issues of liberty, that our government didn't do a good enough job of standing up for freedoms.

00:51:09.620 And so we have some repair work to do with our Conservative movement to stitch it back together.

00:51:15.960 Leadership races help in that regard because it gets everybody out there talking and meeting with people and making apologies where apologies need to be made.

00:51:23.000 So I feel like our movement is pretty unified.

00:51:25.540 But we are facing a very tough competitor in the NDP.

00:51:29.380 They have cemented themselves as the progressive vote.

00:51:35.560 And they have been polling strongly ever since they left government last time around.

00:51:40.540 So I don't want to take it for granted.

00:51:42.640 But I think these are the issues that are going to turn the election.

00:51:46.260 That is, as much as the NDP and all of the socialist parties like to act as though they're looking out for the middle class, they are not.

00:51:55.600 They used to be a party that looked out for the little guy.

00:51:57.900 Now they want to maintain the elite institutions and the elite structures that we have, which only benefit those at the very top and also benefit those who are in decision-making roles in the bureaucracy.

00:52:09.200 And it hurts the little person.

00:52:11.040 I mean, when you have our government talking about a 300% increase in the carbon tax at the federal level,

00:52:17.400 and the provincial opposition leader is walking 100% behind that and then trying to do videos about how much she cares about affordability, it's baffling.

00:52:28.620 You can't do that.

00:52:29.360 It's impossible.

00:52:30.200 You can't say, we're going to increase the cost of all of your energy use by 300%.

00:52:35.400 But my goodness, what happened?

00:52:37.320 Why is food going up in price?

00:52:39.020 Why is electricity and home heating going up in price?

00:52:42.000 Why is gasoline and diesel going up in price?

00:52:44.600 You have no credibility.

00:52:45.360 The only way you have credibility is you say, remove the retail carbon tax to give people a break while we're going through this inflation crisis.

00:52:53.320 So I think that that's going to be one of the big points of difference between us and the guys on the other side,

00:52:58.780 is I think they are revealing that they aren't who everybody thought they were.

00:53:03.080 And this is why we have to show our heart a lot more.

00:53:05.840 Conservatives, sadly, when conservatives often, when we run campaigns,

00:53:10.500 we often talk about how much we're going to cut and we're going to reduce taxes.

00:53:14.580 And anybody who relies on a government service, whether it's health care or education or post-secondary or children's services or social services,

00:53:22.560 they think, are you cutting the things that I need to be able to survive?

00:53:26.060 And so we have to develop a different philosophy of government so that we can also address those needs.

00:53:31.460 It's not such a vision, you know, but one vision that conservatives can offer,

00:53:36.020 which I think is pretty damn straightforward, is cheap, plentiful, relatively clean energy for everyone.

00:53:42.980 Because everyone, obviously, everyone knows, if they have an iota of political or economic sense,

00:53:48.080 that energy costs drive everything.

00:53:51.200 They drive their transportation.

00:53:52.840 They drive their food costs.

00:53:54.560 They drive their heating costs.

00:53:56.820 And the best thing you can possibly do for poor people over any reasonable span of time

00:54:01.260 is to drive energy costs down to the lowest possible level.

00:54:05.480 And that's a great way of combating the moralism of the left.

00:54:09.340 It's like, you guys, you've already shown your colors.

00:54:11.420 You're perfectly willing to sacrifice the poor to not save the planet.

00:54:14.980 It's a very bad strategy.

00:54:16.560 I think the NDP is weak on the federal front, too, because maybe you can clue me in on this a bit.

00:54:21.040 I do not understand Jagmeet Singh.

00:54:23.180 So here's a proposition for you.

00:54:26.520 So this is a man who wants to run for the leadership of the country in principle.

00:54:31.600 And he essentially established a coalition government with the Trudeau liberals

00:54:35.960 who wouldn't be able to hold on to power without them.

00:54:39.280 And he didn't even negotiate to get a cabinet seat,

00:54:41.960 even though what he produced was essentially a coalition.

00:54:44.980 So you have a man who is so unable to govern

00:54:47.420 that he couldn't even get himself a seat at the table

00:54:50.160 for the price of selling his soul to the liberals.

00:54:54.320 And he's the leader of the socialists in Canada.

00:54:56.760 Now, can you explain any of that to me?

00:54:59.300 For the life of me, I can't understand what the hell is motivating him.

00:55:03.140 And I cannot understand what that means for the socialists and the NDP.

00:55:07.160 I think that there is a story that the socialists tell themselves,

00:55:12.160 that the last time they were most effective in getting their agenda passed

00:55:15.680 was when there was a minority liberal government and they had the balance of power.

00:55:20.080 I think that's when the pension came in.

00:55:21.380 Or there's certain things that they believe that they take credit for

00:55:24.240 because they formed the balance of power at that time.

00:55:26.820 So I think they believe it's enough to just have that threat

00:55:29.780 of being able to call an election at any time.

00:55:31.900 I think it's even worse for my opponent, Rachel Notley,

00:55:35.120 because as you know, since you were involved in NDP politics,

00:55:38.240 you don't actually buy a membership in the federal NDP.

00:55:41.120 You buy a membership in the provincial NDP,

00:55:43.700 which gives you your membership in the federal NDP.

00:55:45.800 They're embedded.

00:55:47.300 And I don't know how in the world she's going to run a campaign saying, 1.00

00:55:51.660 yeah, my federal leader is in this partnership with Justin Trudeau

00:55:54.780 and both of them are taking actions that are damaging Alberta.

00:55:58.180 I don't think that's a very strong position for her to be in. 0.80

00:56:00.320 So I'm sort of mystified about why she's walking in lockstep

00:56:04.400 and supporting that agenda, which is stopping our development,

00:56:07.340 and that agenda, which is raising the price of everything.

00:56:10.100 So I don't pretend to understand the world of socialism.

00:56:14.180 The one thing I do understand is that I think that this is probably

00:56:18.020 the most left-wing liberal government we have ever had.

00:56:21.260 And so maybe they should have a formal coalition.

00:56:24.140 I got accustomed to seeing more moderate liberals in those positions in the past,

00:56:29.520 like Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin, which ran balanced budgets and surpluses

00:56:34.100 and helped to develop the economy.

00:56:36.160 I mean, a liberal who wants us to do well so they can steal our wealth

00:56:40.300 is a liberal government I can understand.

00:56:43.500 Like, let's scrap over who gets to the benefit of the wealth creation.

00:56:47.880 A liberal who wants to destroy wealth creation

00:56:50.440 and then think that you can have phony wealth creation by printing money

00:56:53.680 is somebody who I simply don't understand.

00:56:56.160 But that might explain why the two of them are actually more in lockstep

00:57:00.140 than you might have thought, is because I think foundationally,

00:57:03.540 they just believe in central government planning,

00:57:07.260 central government decision-making, central bureaucrats making all of the decisions,

00:57:11.300 printing money, and everything will be fine.

00:57:13.240 I just don't...

00:57:13.920 I think they have a foundational hostility towards free enterprise.

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00:57:49.400 If the Liberals are already doing that, why the hell have an NDP at all?

00:57:53.480 Completely.

00:57:54.480 And I mean, that's got to be the question that's on the minds of thoughtful Canadians,

00:57:58.800 I would presume, when they're looking at the current situation,

00:58:02.100 is that if the Liberal government is so aligned with the NDP

00:58:05.100 that it isn't even useful for the NDP to oppose them,

00:58:07.980 which seems to be the case,

00:58:09.100 and to really require no commitment from the Liberals for doing so,

00:58:13.520 then the party's superfluous.

00:58:15.160 And you saw what happened in the Ontario election.

00:58:17.640 I mean, the NDP got obliterated, and I think that's a big part of the reason.

00:58:21.280 And I don't know how Rachel Notley is going to justify her alliance with Singh, 0.88

00:58:27.500 given precisely what you said.

00:58:28.940 And it's especially the case when, as far as I can tell,

00:58:31.940 there's zero evidence whatsoever that the green higher energy cost agenda

00:58:37.260 has done anything but harm the environmental outlook.

00:58:40.360 And we're going to see a lot more of that making itself well.

00:58:42.680 And look at what it did with regards to precipitating a war between Russia and Ukraine.

00:58:47.980 That's also something, an impossible-to-win war,

00:58:51.180 that's also something that beggars the imagination.

00:58:53.760 Far be it for me to give advice to the NDP,

00:58:57.700 but let me tell you what they have done.

00:59:00.760 They've really cannibalized their own base of support,

00:59:03.720 because the NDP used to be the party of the working person.

00:59:07.820 They used to be the party of labor.

00:59:09.280 They used to be the party of the blue-collar guys and gals.

00:59:12.400 And they're not that anymore,

00:59:14.020 because every single time a resource project comes up,

00:59:18.160 they end up taking the opposite position.

00:59:20.400 They take a position that makes it more difficult to get those projects approved.

00:59:23.340 And they take the environmental position,

00:59:25.280 which actually sacrifices all of those building trades workers

00:59:29.460 who would be commissioned to build those pipelines and build those projects.

00:59:33.580 So this is, I think, the fundamental insight that Doug Ford had,

00:59:37.600 is that that is a pool of voters that are no longer represented by the left.

00:59:42.900 And so he's reached out his hand and said,

00:59:44.520 come and join the Conservative Party.

00:59:46.040 We want you to have a good-paying job.

00:59:47.640 We want you to take care of your family.

00:59:49.200 We want you to feel secure.

00:59:50.420 We want you to be proud of your industry.

00:59:53.620 And that's what we're saying as well.

00:59:55.020 I just don't, I can't imagine why anybody in one of those resource sector jobs,

01:00:00.180 one of those blue-collar trades,

01:00:01.300 I can't imagine why they would vote for such an extreme green agenda

01:00:05.360 that's being manifest in the NDP party,

01:00:08.140 and especially with that partnership with the Liberals.

01:00:10.320 So I think that they have created an opportunity for us as Conservatives.

01:00:13.860 And we just have to make sure that we're addressing those issues in a meaningful way.

01:00:18.800 And I think we are.

01:00:19.600 I think we're beginning to understand that we've got to speak more broadly

01:00:22.500 about those aspirational issues.

01:00:25.060 It looked like Pierre Poliev did a pretty good job of that on the leadership front

01:00:28.820 in the Conservative campaign.

01:00:30.160 And I want to talk to you a little bit about that, strategically speaking,

01:00:33.340 because Poliev basically circumvented the legacy media

01:00:36.740 and went directly online to people.

01:00:39.300 And I know that's part of the reason that you're also graciously agreeing

01:00:42.600 to do this conversation with me.

01:00:44.120 I mean, it does look to me like there is absolutely no reason,

01:00:47.840 and increasingly this is going to be the case for Conservatives and Centralist Liberals

01:00:52.580 to talk to the legacy media types at all.

01:00:54.900 You just run your own show.

01:00:56.400 And I mean, Poliev was producing his own ads,

01:00:58.620 and they were getting like 500,000 views on YouTube,

01:01:01.240 which is quite much, much greater than he could possibly hope for

01:01:05.580 on a legacy platform like CBC, curse be its name.

01:01:10.620 And so it's possible, I think, for Conservatives and traditionalist Liberals

01:01:15.100 to take their message, their political message,

01:01:17.240 or their cultural message, their philosophical message,

01:01:20.080 directly to people in conversations exactly like this,

01:01:23.100 and to say, look, and I do think it was the case that back in the 1970s,

01:01:28.060 you know, the NDP was a genuine working-class party

01:01:31.040 because most of the people who ran it and many of the people who were members

01:01:34.480 were actually Labour representatives, right?

01:01:37.480 Union types, back when the unions were powerful.

01:01:40.080 And many of the leaders, regardless of their stance

01:01:43.800 with regards to the basics of free market competition,

01:01:46.480 really were for the working class.

01:01:48.360 But as you pointed out, that's all disappeared in the last 10 or 15 years.

01:01:52.020 You saw that with Hillary Clinton.

01:01:53.440 I mean, she basically abandoned the working class in the United States

01:01:57.400 to go with the woke types, and that cost her the election 1.00

01:01:59.940 and certainly contributed to Trump's popularity.

01:02:03.940 And so the Conservatives, and I think Poliev did this,

01:02:06.700 Conservatives could capture, I think, not only the working class,

01:02:09.900 quite straightforwardly, especially working class men,

01:02:12.440 but could probably also capture the immigrant population

01:02:15.240 because immigrants are a lot more conservative in Western countries

01:02:20.060 than the population at large.

01:02:21.980 And the fact that they generally vote for the Liberal Left

01:02:24.440 is really a consequence of egregious errors

01:02:28.440 that have been made by Conservatives

01:02:30.100 in communicating with immigrant populations

01:02:32.040 because the message to them should be,

01:02:34.420 look, we want you to come here and thrive,

01:02:36.580 and we basically share your values.

01:02:39.200 And so don't be voting for the handout people

01:02:41.920 because they make false claims of, you know,

01:02:44.840 diversity and ethnic inclusivity.

01:02:46.720 It's all a bloody ruse, and that isn't what you came here for.

01:02:50.080 There's a lot of lip service paid, I think,

01:02:52.760 on the progressive side of the spectrum to reaching out,

01:02:55.660 whereas I think you're very right

01:02:57.580 that the values that we have in the Conservative movement

01:03:00.120 are really reflective of newcomers who come to Canada.

01:03:04.780 I don't want it to sound sloganeering,

01:03:06.680 but I do frame out how we build our coalition out

01:03:10.800 and how we describe what it is that we want to do

01:03:13.120 from a philosophical point of view

01:03:14.960 on a range of six different values.

01:03:19.240 So obviously freedom.

01:03:20.520 And you saw that Pierre Polyev really talked a lot

01:03:24.300 about freedom of the individual to make their own choices,

01:03:26.620 get the gatekeepers out of the way,

01:03:28.280 and just allow people to have more control over their lives.

01:03:32.380 But there's also family,

01:03:33.740 and this is the other part that I think builds out our coalition

01:03:36.840 to include social conservatives,

01:03:38.740 is we know that the best environment

01:03:40.360 for an individual to be able to thrive

01:03:41.980 is when they're surrounded by a supportive family.

01:03:44.380 So any policies we can do to support families

01:03:46.640 staying together, thriving, helping each other

01:03:49.080 is going to be something that builds our movement.

01:03:51.240 Then there's faith.

01:03:52.180 And I would say that there's an open hostility

01:03:55.140 to faith on the other side of the spectrum,

01:03:57.780 whereas we embrace faith communities across the full range

01:04:00.920 because we know that that adds that additional layer of support

01:04:04.160 if something goes wrong.

01:04:05.220 Our faith communities are some of the most generous communities

01:04:07.780 when you look at how they support members

01:04:09.480 who end up in trouble.

01:04:10.900 On top of that, then I would add fellowship

01:04:13.020 because there are some people who are no longer

01:04:15.400 part of a faith community,

01:04:16.520 but they'll join their Rotary Club or their Elks Club

01:04:19.300 or their Lions Club.

01:04:20.520 And that's another way that you can build community.

01:04:22.720 And some of the most amazing initiatives

01:04:24.420 happen in a community at a local level

01:04:26.940 when they're able to identify an individual issue

01:04:29.640 and come together and government stays out of their way.

01:04:32.640 And then on top of that,

01:04:34.020 free enterprise, it won't surprise you,

01:04:35.420 I was an intern at the Fraser Institute from years ago.

01:04:38.580 And to me, free enterprise,

01:04:40.460 genuine free enterprise,

01:04:42.320 where a person with an entrepreneurial spark

01:04:44.600 is able to get together the capital

01:04:46.400 and try something new

01:04:47.600 and have that creative destruction that happens

01:04:50.100 when you come up with something truly transformational

01:04:53.060 to the economy.

01:04:53.920 That's what we've got to nurture

01:04:55.520 because that is what genuine entrepreneurship

01:04:58.200 and capitalism is really all about.

01:05:00.940 And then the last one is philanthropy.

01:05:02.820 And we always forget that,

01:05:04.020 that our biggest supporters of all of our institutions,

01:05:07.920 funders of hospitals and wings at universities

01:05:11.120 and all of our charitable organizations

01:05:13.280 are the people who really did well

01:05:15.200 through a free enterprise

01:05:16.240 and they feel like they need to give back

01:05:18.260 to their community.

01:05:19.040 That is the full cycle of what conservatism is about.

01:05:22.480 And I don't know why we don't talk about all of that

01:05:24.620 because that to me is a full vision.

01:05:26.540 One of the things that's worth pointing out is,

01:05:29.440 you know, part of what's tearing our culture apart

01:05:32.540 at the moment are battles about identity

01:05:35.080 and progressive solution to the problem of identity,

01:05:39.180 which is really the problem of meaning and purpose in life,

01:05:42.300 let's say, is subjective definition.

01:05:45.460 I'm whatever I say I am.

01:05:47.800 What I say I am is whatever I feel I am,

01:05:50.060 moment to moment.

01:05:51.280 It's intrinsic to me. 0.91

01:05:53.840 And that's a really pathological, narcissistic 0.75

01:05:57.480 and egocentric viewpoint.

01:05:58.860 And it's doomed to failure.

01:06:00.740 And the reason, and I mean this technically,

01:06:02.840 the reason it's doomed to failure

01:06:04.100 is because your mental health

01:06:06.560 isn't something you carry around in your subjectivity.

01:06:10.960 Your mental health is in large part a consequence

01:06:13.620 of being properly and harmoniously nested

01:06:17.400 in that hierarchy of institutions

01:06:19.660 that you just described.

01:06:21.140 And this isn't taught properly to young people

01:06:24.140 because, and young people are looking for purpose,

01:06:26.400 which the left, by the way, provides them with, right?

01:06:28.660 Because it provides them with a messianic vision.

01:06:31.060 You don't know what you're doing.

01:06:32.160 You could be saving the planet, right?

01:06:33.780 You could be a rebel who's saving the planet.

01:06:35.980 And that's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

01:06:37.940 But the conservatives can say,

01:06:39.540 look, you need to get married. 0.99

01:06:41.820 You need to have a long-term partner.

01:06:43.960 Because without that, well, first of all,

01:06:46.100 you're not going to grow up.

01:06:47.000 And second, you're going to be lonesome.

01:06:48.320 And third, you're going to need love.

01:06:49.960 And it's like, find a partner.

01:06:51.560 That's the basis for a family.

01:06:53.240 And then, you know, you should probably think

01:06:55.060 about having some children

01:06:56.120 in a stable, monogamous, heterosexual, long-term family.

01:07:00.140 Why?

01:07:00.820 Because you're not going to be sane without that.

01:07:02.760 Now, sometimes you're not going to be sane with it either.

01:07:05.400 But, you know, otherwise, you're lonesome

01:07:07.200 and alienated and juvenile and depressed and nihilistic. 0.79

01:07:10.780 And your life is pointless.

01:07:12.360 And then, well, you need that civic engagement.

01:07:15.800 Because you need to contribute to the community.

01:07:17.880 And with regards to faith-based organizations,

01:07:20.600 is the left and the radicals are opposed to such things.

01:07:23.260 But it's not like they don't have

01:07:24.480 their own faith-based propositions.

01:07:26.720 They just substitute, they substitute for traditional religion, 1.00

01:07:31.240 idiot, rational religion. 1.00

01:07:33.160 And it's completely counterproductive and preposterous. 1.00

01:07:36.780 Most of that religion is based on something like a recounting

01:07:40.000 of the Marxist story.

01:07:41.360 And every time the Marxist religion has taken the reins of power

01:07:45.160 in any country whatsoever, ever,

01:07:47.760 all there was was genocide and poverty.

01:07:50.780 And so that's, if you want an example of a pathological religion, 0.99

01:07:53.700 you can certainly point to Marxism and the young people 1.00

01:07:57.460 that I've been communicating with around the world

01:08:00.160 are dying to hear a proper story about identity.

01:08:04.180 And if you say to them, look, take on some responsibility,

01:08:08.900 have some entrepreneurial dairy, establish a long-term relationship,

01:08:12.920 get married, have children, engage civically, right?

01:08:17.120 Grow up and become part of your family, your community,

01:08:21.060 your state, your province, your country.

01:08:23.700 And dedicate yourself to a high-level religious view of the world.

01:08:28.060 Then you have an identity.

01:08:29.400 You're embedded in multiple layers.

01:08:30.840 And that actually constitutes psychological stability and purpose.

01:08:34.020 And the conservatives have done a very bad job

01:08:36.880 of delineating that vision for young people.

01:08:39.440 But if you do, they're extraordinarily receptive.

01:08:43.000 I think you're very right.

01:08:44.120 And I think part of the challenge was that we've had so much social change

01:08:47.340 over the last 20 years.

01:08:49.080 And the conception of what it meant to have that strong, stable relationship

01:08:53.660 was very binary.

01:08:54.900 It was one man, one woman.

01:08:56.460 I think now that we've broadened out the understanding

01:08:58.460 that everybody needs a life mate.

01:09:00.740 And it doesn't matter whether that's someone of the same gender 0.54

01:09:03.160 or the opposite gender.

01:09:04.560 Having a life mate is what is important.

01:09:06.580 And now we've also broadened out so that those who have married

01:09:11.660 in even same-sex relationships also are developing families as well.

01:09:15.480 And I think that that has made the conservative movement

01:09:17.760 far more inclusive than it might have been historically.

01:09:21.440 And you see this all the time.

01:09:23.000 I mean, there is this notion that those who have that sort of characteristic

01:09:31.640 from the LGBTQ plus community are automatically aligned with the progressives.

01:09:35.720 And I can tell you that is not the case.

01:09:38.340 That we have gay leaders in the conservative movement. 0.73

01:09:41.960 We have gay staff members in the conservative movement. 0.65

01:09:44.320 We actually have a transgender woman who heads up our chief firearms office 1.00

01:09:48.280 in Alberta.

01:09:49.440 I don't know why nobody has written that story,

01:09:51.620 because it's a really amazing story.

01:09:53.260 And she's an amazing woman.

01:09:54.300 And she has great support from the firearms community

01:09:58.400 because we are able to have a broad enough reach

01:10:03.400 and broad enough coalition that everybody is invited in.

01:10:05.860 And we agree on the core values that we were talking about.

01:10:09.300 We agree on the issues associated with individual rights and freedom

01:10:13.340 and entrepreneurship and family and community.

01:10:15.500 And when you can have that common ground,

01:10:17.360 then you can have a very broad coalition.

01:10:19.020 So I think we had a bit of a bumpy ride for a couple of decades

01:10:23.980 as we were trying to sort some of those traditional values out.

01:10:27.560 But I am very proud of where the conservative movement is today

01:10:31.020 and how inclusive it is.

01:10:32.200 And I want to make sure that we continue to be that inclusive.

01:10:34.720 Now, you wanted to talk a little bit, too,

01:10:36.760 about your philosophy of government and social issues

01:10:40.240 from a conservative viewpoint.

01:10:41.800 And we've talked a fair bit about energy and the environment.

01:10:44.200 And we've touched now a little bit on social issues.

01:10:46.360 But I'd like you to talk a little bit more

01:10:48.420 about your views on social issues.

01:10:52.700 You said the conservatives generally present themselves

01:10:54.980 really fiscally in some sense, right?

01:10:57.320 We're going to make government efficient.

01:10:58.960 We're going to cut back taxes.

01:11:00.240 We're going to let you do your own thing.

01:11:01.900 And that's a negative vision.

01:11:04.600 And I don't mean negative emotionally.

01:11:06.360 I mean, we're here to pair things back.

01:11:11.980 And that's not an expansive vision, let's say, of care in some sense.

01:11:15.840 And I understand why that is.

01:11:17.320 But you talked about some of the ideas you had.

01:11:19.660 We briefly talked about them on the social front.

01:11:22.340 So maybe I could get you to elaborate a bit on that.

01:11:25.760 I'll tell you, because I see Alberta, we've gone from, in the 1970s,

01:11:31.020 having 1.5 million population to 4.5 million today.

01:11:34.860 We are continuing to attract people from around the province

01:11:38.920 and around the globe.

01:11:40.100 I want to create Alberta's little bastion of freedom and free enterprise

01:11:44.360 amid a bit of a sea of chaos that we're seeing in North America right now.

01:11:48.600 And I think that that message is causing people to look here and want to come here.

01:11:52.740 And so if we're going to continue growing our population,

01:11:55.180 and I think we'll double if we continue this attraction by 2050.

01:12:01.120 So if we're going to double our population, it means we're going to need more teachers

01:12:04.800 and more nurses and more social workers and more doctors and more roads built

01:12:07.940 and more schools built and more hospitals built.

01:12:09.680 So talking about cutting in that framework doesn't really make much sense.

01:12:13.980 What also doesn't make much sense, I don't think, is that this is what conservatives do,

01:12:18.200 is that we spend a lot of time creating an excellent business environment

01:12:22.020 to attract investment and grow the amount of revenue, which is fantastic.

01:12:26.120 That's one of the things that I think people can reliably count on conservatives to do.

01:12:30.080 But then what we do is we take that big pot of money

01:12:32.240 and we hand it to the central planners and say, go deliver stuff.

01:12:36.880 We hire the exact same people that the socialists hire.

01:12:40.400 And somehow we just think, oh, well, we'll hire better central planners

01:12:44.100 without realizing that central planning is the fundamental flaw

01:12:48.120 in how we're delivering our programs.

01:12:50.380 And conservatives fall victim to this all the time,

01:12:53.060 is that we think, oh, well, if we just eliminate that layer of government

01:12:56.520 and centralize, we'll eliminate administration

01:12:58.980 and we'll end up delivering better services.

01:13:01.880 And it never, ever happens.

01:13:03.860 Because the more you centralize, the more you're creating layers of managers

01:13:06.880 who are disconnected from delivering those services.

01:13:09.640 So you end up with a very costly system that gets worse and worse results.

01:13:13.720 So what I have been, I started on the free enterprise side,

01:13:18.260 as I mentioned, with my internship at the Fraser Institute.

01:13:21.500 So I've always been thinking, how do we apply our free enterprise values

01:13:26.340 to the delivery of public programs?

01:13:28.940 And if we were to apply our free enterprise values,

01:13:31.760 then we would say it all begins with the individual,

01:13:34.440 giving individual choice, empowering them with dollars

01:13:37.100 so that they can then go and purchase the things that they need to purchase.

01:13:41.020 You would have competition.

01:13:42.440 You would have not only public sector providers,

01:13:45.060 but non-profit providers and charitable providers and for-profit providers

01:13:49.040 all competing with each other to deliver the best service at the lowest cost.

01:13:53.780 You would also make sure that you, we have this bizarre situation

01:13:57.060 where we give all this money to a central planner,

01:14:00.220 they use it to deliver services themselves,

01:14:02.320 and then they evaluate their own performance and say,

01:14:04.620 we're doing such a bang-up job, give us more money.

01:14:07.100 And we always do.

01:14:08.040 Those are not roles that in any enterprise are concentrated in one entity.

01:14:14.480 You have to have a different purchaser and a different provider

01:14:16.820 and then somebody else evaluating the performance to see how you're doing.

01:14:20.340 And this is the way that you apply conservative principles

01:14:23.500 to how you deliver health care, how you deliver seniors' care,

01:14:26.980 how you deliver advanced education, how you deliver K-12 education.

01:14:30.840 And that's the project that I want to engage and get started on.

01:14:35.100 Conservatives normally shy away from these types of issues.

01:14:38.380 And we normally don't put forward a vision of how we want to do it differently.

01:14:42.320 And what I observe with the left, and the left does this very well,

01:14:45.500 is that they will do polling on a particular issue

01:14:48.300 and find that there's very little support for it.

01:14:50.740 So then they go out and they advocate and they get their fellow travelers

01:14:54.020 and they write columns and then they poll again.

01:14:55.840 And now the support is a little bit higher.

01:14:58.480 And they keep on inching up the level of support

01:15:00.380 until they've got 50% plus one saying yes, and then they act on it.

01:15:04.460 Whereas conservatives do the opposite.

01:15:06.080 We say, oh, we've got this idea.

01:15:08.220 Let's go out and poll on it.

01:15:09.460 Oh, people don't like it.

01:15:10.560 Well, let's put that back on the shelf.

01:15:12.300 That is not what our job is if we want to win the ideas war.

01:15:15.800 I also think that reliance on polls is also devastating to conservatives

01:15:20.640 because conservatives take a medium to long-term view of things.

01:15:24.160 And polls sample a short-term whim.

01:15:28.080 And what the conservatives need to do, I believe,

01:15:30.860 in order to maintain anything even vaguely traditional,

01:15:33.600 which means to maintain society itself,

01:15:35.620 is to put forth the kind of vision that you were talking about today

01:15:39.020 and to rely much less on the hypothetical expertise

01:15:43.500 of hypothetically expert pollers.

01:15:45.700 You know, as a clinical and research psychologist,

01:15:49.220 I know full well that asking people questions

01:15:52.420 to find out what they think is way more difficult than it looks.

01:15:56.960 You know, if you, as a research psychologist,

01:15:59.160 if you want to find out what a group of people think

01:16:01.720 about any given political issue,

01:16:04.040 that probably takes one dedicated PhD researcher

01:16:08.100 two years to manage.

01:16:10.340 Because you can't just ask the questions that you think are obvious

01:16:13.640 because they beg the answer.

01:16:15.120 And you're not sampling anything that has any longevity

01:16:18.160 in terms of attitude.

01:16:19.860 And if you phrase the question slightly differently,

01:16:22.840 you can get completely opposite responses.

01:16:25.700 And so conservatives get set back on their heels

01:16:28.720 when they do opinion polling.

01:16:30.560 And I think they do that very frequently

01:16:32.760 to abdicate responsibility.

01:16:34.820 It's like, well, we can't do this because it's unpopular.

01:16:37.180 Well, you know, maybe it's unpopular.

01:16:40.420 Maybe it's your responsibility to put forth

01:16:42.520 a coherent medium to long-term vision

01:16:44.860 and to hope that you can communicate it well enough

01:16:47.680 so that people come on board.

01:16:48.920 You have to tell the right story.

01:16:50.620 You have to tell the right story

01:16:52.040 and you have to find the advocates

01:16:53.740 who will help tell that story for you as well.

01:16:56.140 Your audience may not know my history,

01:16:58.660 but I have been in this world of public policy

01:17:01.000 for 27 years.

01:17:02.220 I've been at a think tank with the Fraser Institute.

01:17:04.720 I've done landowner advocacy

01:17:06.820 with the Canadian Property Rights Research Institute,

01:17:08.980 business advocacy with a couple of different business groups.

01:17:12.100 I've been in media, in print media, television media,

01:17:15.500 as well as radio media.

01:17:16.880 I've had my own podcast.

01:17:18.640 And so I've seen the, and I own my own business.

01:17:21.920 So I've seen the full spectrum

01:17:23.180 of how you try to push ideas along.

01:17:24.940 And I'll tell you what I would observe

01:17:26.460 is that the conservative movement

01:17:28.120 has pretty well seeded the ground

01:17:30.540 on so many of the culture-shaping institutions

01:17:34.280 that we have in K-12 education.

01:17:37.460 We don't have a large number of conservative,

01:17:39.860 libertarian-minded teachers

01:17:41.420 helping to connect kids

01:17:42.900 with all of the different ideas that are out there,

01:17:44.820 as well as all of the different jobs out there.

01:17:45.640 Yeah, you have like zero of them.

01:17:47.280 Completely.

01:17:48.340 We've even pulled trades education

01:17:50.060 out of most of our schools.

01:17:51.600 So how is some young kid supposed to know

01:17:53.800 he wants to be an electrician or a plumber or a welder

01:17:56.080 if he doesn't have access

01:17:57.480 to the opportunities to try it out?

01:17:59.560 So that's one thing that we've seeded.

01:18:01.280 We've also seeded the universities,

01:18:02.940 and you know this probably better than anyone else,

01:18:04.900 how difficult it is to get your research funded

01:18:07.200 if you happen to have something beyond woke views.

01:18:10.600 It seems like there's only one particular type

01:18:12.740 of research that gets funded these days.

01:18:14.540 So our universities, I don't think,

01:18:16.940 are giving us the support that we need

01:18:19.060 in the conservative and libertarian movement.

01:18:21.280 On top of that, all of our arts organizations,

01:18:24.840 our filmmakers, the messages that come through

01:18:27.900 all of our Hollywood and other popular film

01:18:32.460 is almost uniformly negative to conservative ideals

01:18:36.700 or capitalism or liberty.

01:18:38.520 Although, you know, there are some notable exceptions.

01:18:41.600 And then, of course, I think as well,

01:18:44.500 we haven't cultivated our friends in the union movement

01:18:47.640 in the way that we should have

01:18:48.660 because increasingly they're having

01:18:50.800 the same conservative values

01:18:52.640 that we're talking about here.

01:18:54.460 And so I feel like so many of the different forces

01:18:57.320 that shape society and shape the conversation,

01:18:59.220 I should add media.

01:19:00.160 I mean, media as well.

01:19:01.220 I remember years ago, Lydia Milgen,

01:19:03.900 who was a researcher at one of the Ontario universities,

01:19:07.860 but she worked for the Fraser Institute.

01:19:09.540 It's almost like a mirror image

01:19:11.280 of how many people in the media

01:19:13.800 self-describe as being atheist or agnostic

01:19:17.180 compared to the general public.

01:19:18.540 And that shapes the kind of stories that get told.

01:19:21.620 So all of the opinion shaping that is done

01:19:25.000 is done by and large

01:19:26.920 by the progressive side of the spectrum.

01:19:29.260 Even on the advocacy groups,

01:19:31.880 we have far more active advocacy groups

01:19:34.320 on environmental and social issues

01:19:36.420 from a leftist perspective

01:19:37.460 than we have from a libertarian conservative perspective.

01:19:40.200 So I'm talking about the things that I need to do

01:19:42.860 to try to advance the message,

01:19:44.180 but I'm not going to succeed

01:19:45.720 unless we also have the backup.

01:19:47.600 We need to have the advocacy groups

01:19:49.240 and the think tanks

01:19:49.980 and the academics in the universities.

01:19:51.860 And we need to be hiring teachers and filmmakers

01:19:53.980 who are going to tell our stories.

01:19:55.780 And I think that this is a 20 or 30-year project

01:19:59.000 because it took 20 or 30 years

01:20:00.360 to get to the place we are right now.

01:20:01.740 It's going to take 20 or 30 years

01:20:03.060 to get us to some sort of balance.

01:20:04.580 But we've got to start by recognizing

01:20:06.740 the nature of the problem we created for ourselves

01:20:09.080 and starting to undo it.

01:20:10.940 So what's your strategy at the present time

01:20:14.440 for communicating the ideas

01:20:15.880 that we've talked about today to Albertans?

01:20:18.480 You can't obviously rely

01:20:20.280 on the centralized legacy media,

01:20:22.120 especially given that they're government-funded now,

01:20:24.140 which doesn't exactly help their bias.

01:20:26.940 So how is it that you plan to get the ideas

01:20:30.500 that you're describing out there to Albertans,

01:20:32.480 especially in short order?

01:20:33.660 Because as you said,

01:20:34.440 you have, what, seven months till the election, eh?

01:20:36.500 Is that, and that's when it has to be called?

01:20:39.480 Yes, it does.

01:20:40.620 I'm losing a bit of,

01:20:41.760 I had lost a bit of heart in the legacy media.

01:20:44.420 As I mentioned, I started there.

01:20:46.180 I was an editorial writer and columnist

01:20:48.460 at the Calgary Herald beginning in 1999.

01:20:50.700 And the mantra when I was there by my bosses

01:20:53.480 was that I had to be fair,

01:20:55.520 I had to be accurate,

01:20:57.200 and I had to be balanced.

01:20:59.040 And that's all I ask of the legacy media

01:21:01.380 is just go back to the kind of journalism

01:21:03.760 that we used to do,

01:21:05.760 because that is, I think,

01:21:06.860 what is alienating people

01:21:09.060 when they're looking at the mainstream media.

01:21:10.980 If they don't see that their view

01:21:12.520 is going to be presented in a balanced way,

01:21:15.040 then they're going to go to alternative media sites.

01:21:17.500 And this has led to a number of alternative media sources,

01:21:22.540 some more credible than others,

01:21:23.940 but we're seeing a polarization now of views,

01:21:26.700 so that if you're going and looking for confirmation bias

01:21:29.400 and you're on the left,

01:21:30.340 you've got your handful of left-wing sources you'll go to.

01:21:33.400 If you're looking for confirmation bias on the right,

01:21:35.540 you'll have your handful of confirmation bias sources to go to.

01:21:38.740 But what really moves us forward as a society

01:21:41.300 is when those can meet in a public square,

01:21:43.460 thrash it out,

01:21:44.120 so that we can come to some common understanding

01:21:45.900 on how we move forward.

01:21:47.240 So I maintain a great hope

01:21:50.080 that some of these legacy media

01:21:52.240 will either get back to their original foundational purpose

01:21:54.880 or that some of the new media

01:21:57.220 is going to develop those same principles

01:21:59.740 of being fair and accurate and balanced.

01:22:01.580 And I think some are,

01:22:02.400 and I think that's very positive.

01:22:03.660 So I will continue to do interviews

01:22:05.520 with the mainstream media,

01:22:06.900 but I do so knowing

01:22:08.200 that they're sitting and waiting for me

01:22:10.820 to say the one sentence that they know

01:22:13.680 that they can light up on Twitter

01:22:15.960 to get something trending

01:22:17.280 so that they can then write a follow-up story

01:22:19.680 about how I had some gaffe.

01:22:21.360 That is not journalism in my view.

01:22:24.300 Journalism is,

01:22:25.600 here's an issue,

01:22:26.680 let's talk to three or four different sources,

01:22:28.960 let's educate people and analyze.

01:22:30.820 And I would love to see that return.

01:22:32.780 But you are getting some of that

01:22:34.040 in these long-form interviews on podcasts,

01:22:36.000 you're getting it in some of the alternative media

01:22:38.940 that has developed.

01:22:39.760 And quite frankly, Elon Musk taking over Twitter,

01:22:43.500 I think is going to be a net positive for humanity,

01:22:46.360 that we are going to be able to finally have

01:22:48.520 some genuine balance in the discussion

01:22:50.300 that we haven't had for probably about a decade.

01:22:53.620 So I'm watching it.

01:22:55.840 I will continue to do my own videos

01:22:59.440 and my own memes

01:23:01.900 that I push out on those different platforms.

01:23:03.860 I'll do these kinds of interviews.

01:23:05.220 I will talk to the mainstream media.

01:23:06.660 But I do remain very concerned

01:23:10.880 that we don't have anything approaching

01:23:13.040 any kind of balance

01:23:14.500 when we're looking at what we see out there

01:23:16.580 in the legacy media.

01:23:17.400 And that's a real problem.

01:23:18.980 Yeah.

01:23:19.640 So what's in the immediate future for you now?

01:23:22.720 Like both on the policy front,

01:23:25.520 on the strategy front,

01:23:26.780 on the communications front,

01:23:27.980 what do you see unfolding in front of you

01:23:29.720 in Alberta in the next seven months?

01:23:31.700 Well, number one,

01:23:32.760 before the end of the year,

01:23:33.880 we are going to make major strides

01:23:35.800 in improving the health experience

01:23:37.920 of people who are having to use an ambulance

01:23:40.960 or appear in an emergency room at a hospital.

01:23:44.720 We have studied this to death.

01:23:46.940 We know what the issues are.

01:23:49.140 And we just need to have the political will

01:23:50.820 to act on them.

01:23:51.620 So before the end of the year,

01:23:52.660 people will begin to see

01:23:53.800 some major improvement in that part.

01:23:56.720 We'll also start clearing the surgical backlog

01:23:58.780 because we'll do the kind of things

01:23:59.960 that I was describing.

01:24:00.980 I've already asked all of our,

01:24:02.580 whenever I go to any speech,

01:24:04.120 I ask people to talk to their doctors

01:24:06.520 and surgeons who are at local hospitals

01:24:09.120 to engage with us

01:24:11.140 on trying to bring some entrepreneurship

01:24:12.640 into how we deliver healthcare.

01:24:14.400 So that's going to be the most important thing.

01:24:17.180 We also have to address the affordability issues.

01:24:19.620 I mean, I have an economics professor

01:24:22.160 from university

01:24:24.560 who always told me that

01:24:26.000 inflation is always and everywhere

01:24:27.920 a monetary phenomenon.

01:24:29.260 And if I knew that,

01:24:30.200 that printing more money

01:24:31.040 would lead to inflation

01:24:31.920 from the time I was 23 years old.

01:24:33.660 I don't know why it is

01:24:34.680 that the Bank of Canada

01:24:35.520 and the politicians making the decisions

01:24:37.620 didn't understand that would happen.

01:24:39.080 So we are now in a position

01:24:40.680 where I didn't create this problem,

01:24:42.420 but we at the provincial level,

01:24:44.000 we have to solve it.

01:24:45.220 We have to make sure

01:24:45.980 that we're addressing the issues

01:24:48.240 of cost of foods

01:24:49.300 by supporting our food banks.

01:24:50.820 We've got to address issues

01:24:51.580 of electricity and home heating

01:24:52.900 by providing offsets.

01:24:54.280 We've got to address the issues

01:24:55.420 of cost of gasoline and diesel,

01:24:57.800 at least for this temporary period of time,

01:24:59.960 until we start seeing prices stabilize.

01:25:02.620 So that's going to be

01:25:03.320 another big focus of ours.

01:25:05.140 Another area is going to be

01:25:06.820 telling the Alberta story

01:25:08.180 on the international stage.

01:25:09.740 In the past,

01:25:10.440 our governments have defaulted

01:25:12.360 and allowed the federal government

01:25:13.520 to represent us

01:25:14.680 at conferences like COP27.

01:25:16.960 We're not doing that anymore.

01:25:18.060 No, no, that's a bad idea.

01:25:19.840 It was a terrible idea.

01:25:21.160 So we're going to be sending

01:25:21.920 our environment minister,

01:25:23.120 and it's not to offer

01:25:24.240 a counter message,

01:25:25.500 it's to offer an accurate message

01:25:27.500 that Alberta is at the lead

01:25:29.400 on addressing issues of emissions,

01:25:31.720 and our companies have carbon technology

01:25:33.680 and hydrogen and want to export LNG,

01:25:36.080 and we are here to help.

01:25:37.420 So you'll see us be a lot more aggressive

01:25:41.220 in getting our own message out

01:25:42.660 on the international stage.

01:25:44.780 And we're going to keep this fight

01:25:46.580 going with Ottawa,

01:25:47.620 that we have to fix this country.

01:25:49.860 We have to get to a point

01:25:51.260 where each province realizes

01:25:52.760 that they have sovereign powers

01:25:54.660 in their own right,

01:25:55.420 and they should stop allowing Ottawa

01:25:57.060 to push them around.

01:25:58.440 Ottawa will always try

01:25:59.780 to take more money, more power,

01:26:01.360 more decision-making away

01:26:02.380 from the provincial level,

01:26:03.780 and small provinces

01:26:04.820 maybe felt that the federal government

01:26:07.480 was here to help.

01:26:08.520 We now know they are not.

01:26:09.920 And so we are going to be working

01:26:11.840 very hard to make sure

01:26:12.860 that all of our areas of jurisdiction

01:26:14.800 come back to us

01:26:15.860 at the provincial level.

01:26:16.860 So that's going to be

01:26:17.520 an ongoing project,

01:26:19.860 and I'm just delighted

01:26:20.520 that we've got other provinces

01:26:21.580 who are thinking very much

01:26:22.680 along the same lines.

01:26:23.700 Those will be the main things

01:26:24.780 that we work on.

01:26:25.920 Great.

01:26:26.240 Well, it'd be very interesting

01:26:27.340 to see a solid Western

01:26:30.460 Prairie Province coalition

01:26:32.420 form itself

01:26:33.860 and start to act more independently

01:26:37.140 in some sense

01:26:37.940 within the confines of Canada.

01:26:39.420 At the moment,

01:26:40.160 I can't think of anything

01:26:41.000 that would be better

01:26:41.700 for the West,

01:26:42.820 certainly for the country

01:26:43.940 in the long run,

01:26:45.080 and also for people

01:26:46.340 everywhere else,

01:26:47.200 given that Canada

01:26:48.080 has abundant sources

01:26:49.280 of clean, cheap energy

01:26:50.640 and could provide them

01:26:52.260 in the most politically

01:26:54.140 and economically stable

01:26:55.320 manner possible.

01:26:56.820 Why is that not a good story

01:26:58.820 to tell everyone in the world?

01:27:00.400 And I guess that's part

01:27:01.240 of what we're doing today.

01:27:02.920 It's an excellent story

01:27:03.860 to tell the world,

01:27:04.540 and I'll add to it

01:27:05.320 food security as well.

01:27:06.700 I mean, I'm very concerned

01:27:08.060 that you've got

01:27:08.960 this same strange

01:27:10.800 don't build anything attitude

01:27:14.360 that is now being applied

01:27:15.440 to our agriculture

01:27:16.280 food producers as well.

01:27:17.960 that you've seen

01:27:18.880 in the Netherlands

01:27:20.380 that they want

01:27:21.140 to dramatically reduce

01:27:22.740 the amount of fertilizer use,

01:27:24.600 and we see that

01:27:25.320 our federal government

01:27:26.200 is preposterously

01:27:28.560 proposing the same thing.

01:27:30.640 And fortunately,

01:27:31.400 you've seen in our province here

01:27:32.960 as well as in Saskatchewan,

01:27:34.060 we've said,

01:27:34.420 no way,

01:27:34.720 we're not going to abide

01:27:36.120 by some arbitrary

01:27:37.000 fertilizer reduction limits

01:27:38.720 because it means

01:27:39.380 we're going to reduce

01:27:40.080 the amount of food

01:27:40.640 we can produce

01:27:41.320 at a time that we've got

01:27:42.300 a global food security crisis.

01:27:44.460 I was just speaking

01:27:45.120 to a woman

01:27:46.040 who's involved

01:27:46.700 in trying to find

01:27:48.240 food aid for Africa,

01:27:49.740 and she was saying

01:27:51.140 that the projections

01:27:52.260 for starvation

01:27:53.320 are in the 40 million

01:27:54.820 person range.

01:27:56.180 Why are we not talking

01:27:57.400 about that

01:27:58.040 and all the things

01:27:58.840 that we can do

01:27:59.440 to address it?

01:27:59.960 Well, you know that the planet

01:28:00.240 has too many people

01:28:01.280 on it anyways,

01:28:02.300 and so there's always

01:28:03.460 that little bugbear 0.97

01:28:04.460 lurking in the background,

01:28:05.640 that genocidal statement.

01:28:07.760 So, yeah,

01:28:08.380 I know,

01:28:08.960 well,

01:28:09.180 the World Bank

01:28:10.480 already estimates

01:28:11.820 that at least 220 million

01:28:13.620 people are in a situation

01:28:15.700 of food insecurity,

01:28:17.660 which means

01:28:18.120 borderline starvation.

01:28:20.060 You know,

01:28:20.160 and if the winter

01:28:20.700 is particularly brutal,

01:28:21.840 and maybe it won't be,

01:28:22.840 and good if it isn't,

01:28:24.140 then we're going to see,

01:28:25.580 well,

01:28:25.960 and those sorts of things

01:28:27.380 tend to spiral out of control

01:28:28.640 once they get started.

01:28:29.860 So, no,

01:28:30.880 it's absolutely appalling.

01:28:32.840 Cheap energy

01:28:33.480 and cheap food,

01:28:34.380 that's good for the poor.

01:28:35.720 It is.

01:28:36.160 It's good for the poor,

01:28:36.840 and it's good

01:28:37.200 for the planet too.

01:28:38.060 I read a book

01:28:40.440 by Hans Rosling

01:28:41.420 called Factfulness.

01:28:42.560 I don't know if you read it

01:28:43.420 a couple of years ago.

01:28:44.500 It's a great book.

01:28:45.180 It is a great book,

01:28:46.100 and he talks about

01:28:46.840 what a great new story

01:28:47.860 we have about

01:28:48.740 the elevation

01:28:49.560 of people out of poverty

01:28:50.580 that has taken place

01:28:51.500 over the last number

01:28:52.260 of decades.

01:28:53.260 And it also,

01:28:54.140 we also find that

01:28:55.180 when women have 1.00

01:28:57.140 economic choices,

01:28:58.460 rather than having

01:28:59.240 10 or 15 children,

01:29:00.520 they end up having

01:29:01.140 two or three children.

01:29:02.160 And so,

01:29:02.640 even those who are concerned

01:29:04.020 about the impact

01:29:05.160 on our resources

01:29:05.860 and whether or not

01:29:06.580 we can support

01:29:07.340 the increase

01:29:08.400 in population,

01:29:09.620 the solution to that

01:29:11.400 is to make sure

01:29:12.380 that we have

01:29:13.020 a good supply of food,

01:29:14.160 a good supply of energy,

01:29:15.460 economic opportunities

01:29:16.460 for men and women,

01:29:18.040 so that we can see

01:29:19.300 everybody elevated

01:29:20.280 to the same standard

01:29:21.180 of living.

01:29:21.920 The prescriptions

01:29:22.880 of the extreme greens

01:29:24.220 is the exact opposite,

01:29:25.880 and it's going to lead

01:29:27.080 to more poverty

01:29:28.320 and more devastation,

01:29:29.380 and it's not going

01:29:30.140 to address some of these

01:29:30.980 issues of economic opportunities

01:29:32.380 for women as well.

01:29:33.380 So,

01:29:33.680 I think that we've got

01:29:34.660 such a good story to tell,

01:29:36.700 not only here in Alberta,

01:29:38.300 but also across

01:29:39.700 the country nationally,

01:29:41.060 and also a message

01:29:42.100 for the international community,

01:29:43.420 and I can't wait

01:29:44.340 to get out there

01:29:45.020 and start talking about it.

01:29:47.600 Great, great.

01:29:48.540 Well, that's a very useful

01:29:50.580 and profound place to end,

01:29:52.980 and so thank you very much

01:29:54.540 for talking to me today.

01:29:56.280 I look forward,

01:29:57.360 hopefully,

01:29:57.700 to meeting you

01:29:58.300 in January

01:29:59.280 when I'm in Alberta.

01:30:00.640 If we happen to overlap,

01:30:02.200 that would be lovely,

01:30:02.820 and I'll put you in touch

01:30:05.060 with some of the people

01:30:05.700 that I talked about earlier,

01:30:07.040 and I appreciate very much

01:30:09.540 your willingness

01:30:10.080 to talk unscripted

01:30:12.280 in such a courageous way

01:30:13.720 for an hour and a half

01:30:14.680 so that everybody

01:30:15.340 can actually hear

01:30:16.120 what you're thinking

01:30:16.760 instead of being forced

01:30:17.860 into 15-second,

01:30:19.660 carefully machined sound bites,

01:30:22.240 and so it's a nice new style

01:30:24.200 of political discourse,

01:30:25.360 you know,

01:30:25.600 and I think it enables people

01:30:26.840 who can actually think

01:30:27.800 to shine,

01:30:28.880 so more power to that

01:30:30.640 as far as I'm concerned.

01:30:32.260 Well, it's my pleasure.

01:30:33.520 The last thing you want

01:30:34.360 to call a politician

01:30:35.640 is courageous.

01:30:36.560 I used to watch

01:30:37.340 Yes Minister

01:30:37.860 and Yes Prime Minister,

01:30:38.800 and that was something

01:30:39.460 that the Deputy Minister

01:30:40.420 would always say

01:30:41.440 when he wanted a politician

01:30:43.540 not to do something.

01:30:45.360 I'm going to keep 0.77

01:30:46.020 on doing this, though,

01:30:46.820 so thanks for the conversation today.

01:30:49.640 Yeah, my pleasure,

01:30:50.560 really, my pleasure.

01:30:51.660 So thank you to everyone

01:30:53.040 who was watching and listening,

01:30:54.480 and I'm going to continue

01:30:56.060 my conversation

01:30:56.940 with the Premier of Alberta,

01:30:59.760 Danielle Smith,

01:31:00.480 on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

01:31:02.420 We'll talk a little bit

01:31:03.100 about the development

01:31:03.820 of her career,

01:31:04.560 which is what I do

01:31:05.460 for an additional half an hour.

01:31:06.980 For those of you

01:31:07.540 who are interested,

01:31:08.720 please consider subscribing

01:31:10.640 to the Daily Wire Plus platform.

01:31:12.480 They've professionalized my podcast,

01:31:14.560 made a lot of projects possible

01:31:15.800 that I wouldn't have been

01:31:16.520 otherwise able to do,

01:31:17.720 and also allowed me

01:31:18.620 to continue doing

01:31:19.320 all the other things

01:31:20.040 I was doing,

01:31:20.620 and so consider heading

01:31:22.460 on over there

01:31:23.100 and checking out

01:31:24.600 what they have to offer.

01:31:25.960 And thanks again,

01:31:26.820 Premier Smith.

01:31:27.520 Much appreciated.

01:31:30.480 Hello, everyone.

01:31:31.580 I would encourage you

01:31:32.280 to continue listening

01:31:33.460 to my conversation

01:31:34.480 with my guest

01:31:35.320 on DailyWirePlus.com.

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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - November 17, 2022

306. Showdown with Ottawa： Alberta's New Premier ｜ Danielle Smith

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