The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 322. College of Psychologists vs Jordan B Peterson ｜ Mikhaila Peterson

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

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00:00:57.420 Hello everybody watching and listening on YouTube and perhaps on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

00:01:14.140 I'm having a discussion today with my daughter Michaela.

00:01:18.640 I asked her to interview me, I suppose, about what's happening in Toronto, Ontario, Canada at the moment on the professional front relationship to me.

00:01:28.840 The Ontario College of Psychologists, which is the board that regulates the practice of psychology in Ontario and hypothetically protects the public interest,

00:01:37.460 has levied a series of what are in essence lawsuits against me for unprofessional conduct pertaining primarily to my social media communication.

00:01:49.940 And so they have decided in their wisdom that I am to be required to undertake a series of re-education lessons

00:02:01.120 designed to ensure that I communicate in a manner they deem appropriate.

00:02:06.060 And I have told them that there are no circumstances I can imagine under which I would be willing to do that.

00:02:12.960 And the next step is to bring me before a public disciplinary hearing and then to suspend my clinical license.

00:02:19.980 And so I'm making all of this public because I think people need to weigh in on whether I'm an alt-right Nazi,

00:02:26.520 harmful, you know, bastion of intolerable political thought with a troll-like army of pathological followers, 0.89

00:02:36.040 or whether the college itself is a corrupt nest of social justice vipers, 0.95

00:02:43.060 hell-bent on envy and revenge and using the tiny fraction of people who are complaining

00:02:47.680 to put forward their own brand of personal pathology and vindictiveness.

00:02:53.100 And, well, I'll make everything public except for that which I can't do on legal grounds

00:02:58.540 and let everybody decide for themselves.

00:03:00.860 That's the plan.

00:03:02.200 Because I might be wrong.

00:03:03.860 And I guess if I am, I need to learn how.

00:03:07.180 In any case, Michaela is going to talk to me for 90 minutes.

00:03:09.960 And we're going to walk through some of this and maybe you'll find that interesting and maybe you won't.

00:03:16.720 Why would you care?

00:03:18.620 Well, that's, I guess, what you'll figure out if you listen to the talk.

00:03:22.880 One reason might be, it's my opinion that the regulatory boards that govern professional conduct

00:03:30.600 in Canada, particularly in the U.S. as well and in the West more broadly,

00:03:34.600 have become so corrupted by the woke ideology that the professionals you depend on in moments of crisis

00:03:41.220 for legal advice and medical advice and psychological counseling,

00:03:44.900 some of which can be life and reputation saving,

00:03:49.280 they can no longer be trusted because they're being required by the professional bodies to lie to you

00:03:53.980 in the service of this warped, radical leftist ideology that's now become,

00:03:59.940 what would you call it, mandatory for right speakers wherever they might exist.

00:04:04.600 And so that's why you might want to listen and decide for yourself whether you think that might be true.

00:04:10.020 So anyways, onward with the discussion.

00:04:12.460 And thanks, Michaela, for agreeing to do this.

00:04:16.120 Hey guys, I'm coming on my dad's channel to interview him

00:04:20.000 because he's dealing with some serious things right now, like usual, kind of like usual.

00:04:27.080 So first off, how are you? How are you doing, dad?

00:04:30.560 Well, not too bad.

00:04:36.980 I've been preparing my public response to the decision of the Ontario College of Psychologists

00:04:45.020 to require me to do mandatory social media communication retraining.

00:04:52.840 They've, they have, the College of Psychologists is the regulatory board for the practice of psychology in Ontario.

00:05:04.040 There are a variety of regulated professions, medicine, dentistry, teaching, architecture, psychology.

00:05:11.740 That's not all of them.

00:05:13.380 And these regulated professions have a board that's appointed by the government

00:05:22.020 whose mandate is to protect the public from unprofessional behavior

00:05:27.220 on the part of the members of the regulated professions.

00:05:30.020 And people can submit complaints to those bodies if they believe that they've been treated unprofessionally

00:05:39.360 or unethically or otherwise inappropriately by a college member.

00:05:45.500 So a member of the relevant profession.

00:05:47.900 And the college has been after me non-stop with complaints since I rose to public prominence in 2016,

00:06:01.540 although not once before that in the 20 years that I practiced as a clinical psychologist.

00:06:06.020 So this isn't the university that's after me like it was in 2017, 2016.

00:06:13.060 This is the College of Psychologists, which has started pursuing me in 2016 and has never let up.

00:06:20.300 Now what happens is that people, anyone anywhere can submit a complaint about me

00:06:26.300 for anything I've done or said, hypothetical or otherwise.

00:06:31.220 And then the college can, and that doesn't matter if they're a client of mine or ever have been,

00:06:36.280 or if I've had any dealings with them,

00:06:38.080 or even if they're the person who has hypothetically been harmed by my behavior.

00:06:45.040 And the college has decided to pursue a sequence of such complaints,

00:06:50.140 even though it's in their power to dismiss them as vexatious or frivolous,

00:06:54.200 which is what I asked for,

00:06:55.840 on the grounds that my social media communication has caused harm to people.

00:07:03.700 And so they've essentially taken out what are the equivalent of more than a dozen lawsuits against me.

00:07:11.180 And I say they're equivalent to lawsuits because the penalty for being found guilty of such misbehavior is quite serious.

00:07:20.620 It can involve re-education, public apology, or even the removal of my ability to practice

00:07:28.340 or to describe myself as a clinical psychologist.

00:07:30.840 And, of course, it took me about 10 years, all things considered, to get licensed.

00:07:35.260 It's a very difficult process, and I'm not inclined to give it up lightly.

00:07:39.600 In any case, they have been after me to a tremendous degree in 2022.

00:07:45.820 I think there's 13 or 14 complaints, each of which culminated in one of these lawsuits.

00:07:51.160 I'm represented by legal counsel.

00:07:53.320 There's so many of them that they're difficult to keep track of.

00:07:55.900 I probably went through 400 pages of documentation this week.

00:08:01.880 And you asked me how I'm doing.

00:08:03.960 Well, you know, first of all, I found it extremely difficult to keep my rage under control

00:08:11.640 because a tremendous amount of my time is being wasted.

00:08:16.660 It's extremely expensive.

00:08:19.500 The allegations are not only utterly preposterous, but entirely political in nature.

00:08:24.320 And then I was also afraid of it.

00:08:26.960 You know, the first complaint came in 2017, 2016 in December, at the same time the university

00:08:34.200 was after me, and at the same time the Canadian Revenue authorities were after me for a mistake

00:08:39.700 they admitted making six months later.

00:08:42.220 And you remember, that was an extremely stressful time.

00:08:44.820 I was accused at that point of inappropriate personal conduct in relationship to one of my clients.

00:08:52.040 All of that was dismissed, by the way, without hesitation, although the college did decide

00:08:58.460 at that point because they needed to decide I was guilty of something, even though I wasn't

00:09:03.240 guilty of what I was most seriously accused of.

00:09:08.260 They decided I hadn't handled my email properly at that point when I was getting thousands of emails

00:09:13.920 a day, and that that made it difficult for my clients to get a hold of me, even though I had given

00:09:20.800 every single one of my clients my personal phone number and could contact me by text,

00:09:26.200 which is something, by the way, that psychologists never do, you know, for obvious reasons.

00:09:31.980 So in any case, it's been a continuous stream of investigations and legal defense.

00:09:37.900 Since then, I found that kind of accusation of serious personal misconduct unbelievably stressful

00:09:45.940 in 2016.

00:09:47.600 It certainly contributed to me becoming ill.

00:09:51.680 And then I didn't really want to revisit it, you know, and so I started going through

00:09:55.560 all that documentation last week so that I could lay out everything that's been levied at me.

00:10:01.980 And, you know, I went through all that stuff from 2017.

00:10:06.420 Even talking about it now, it makes me shake to some degree.

00:10:09.620 Afterwards, I could hardly stand up.

00:10:11.880 I, like, just about fainted three or four times and, you know, had a real hard time keeping myself

00:10:18.180 composed.

00:10:19.860 It's very off-putting to, let's say, to have attempted to conduct myself extremely carefully

00:10:29.260 in my professional occupations as a professor and as a clinical psychologist for decades,

00:10:35.960 you know, to step very carefully.

00:10:38.880 Of course, I never had any behavioral accusations levied against me at Harvard or the University

00:10:43.180 of Toronto or as a clinical psychologist.

00:10:45.380 In the 30 years I was a professor and 20 years of private practice.

00:10:50.940 And then to be accused of serious personal misconduct, the essential claim was my seductive behavior

00:10:58.520 as a therapist.

00:10:59.640 And the evidence offered was that when I was offering my advice, I would spin my wedding

00:11:05.780 ring, which was apparently some Freudian indication that I was, you know, sexually interested in a

00:11:11.780 particular complaining client.

00:11:13.260 Now, I don't particularly blame her.

00:11:15.240 I mean, had she not had her problems, she wouldn't have come and seen me, you know.

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00:12:55.960 But the college has a tremendous gavel to wield, a tremendous hammer, and to have that brought

00:13:07.260 down on you is, it's no joke.

00:13:10.600 You know, and I've known a lot of people now who've been investigated for that sort of

00:13:14.340 thing by mobs, let's say, of one form or another.

00:13:19.120 And it's very, very hard on them.

00:13:20.800 So when I revisited all this, it was really, and I'd probably been avoiding doing it to

00:13:27.620 some degree.

00:13:28.520 You know, although, you know, we had to wait until we moved forward with our legal challenge

00:13:33.460 before we could make any of this public.

00:13:35.420 There was still an element of avoidance.

00:13:37.560 And no wonder, you know, it really lit me on fire again when I was going through this

00:13:42.020 stuff.

00:13:42.280 But one of the upsides was, you know, I reviewed the, and organized the complaints that are

00:13:48.500 levied against me now, the accusations for which I've already been sentenced, essentially.

00:13:53.100 And the upside of it was that, well, these accusations are so incredibly preposterous and political

00:14:03.200 that it's almost incomprehensible.

00:14:05.800 You know, I'm literally being, well, the requirement is, so the college has decided after,

00:14:12.280 pursuing these complaints, that I don't know how to regulate my behavior properly in my

00:14:17.380 social media communications.

00:14:19.460 And so I need to be taught by their experts how to conduct myself appropriately.

00:14:25.080 And so I have to undergo a series of courses, one-on-one coaching sessions with their deemed

00:14:31.740 experts.

00:14:32.900 And they're going to tell me how I should craft my words and what I should say and what I

00:14:37.460 shouldn't say.

00:14:38.580 And I am required to pay for that.

00:14:41.280 It's about $250 an hour, which, you know, in our current circumstances, isn't a concern

00:14:46.620 in and of itself.

00:14:47.420 But you can understand that for many people, that would be tremendously burdensome.

00:14:52.380 And the person who's teaching me is going to submit regular reports to the college, and

00:14:58.060 they're going to decide when I've learned how to be the sort of person I should be so that

00:15:03.820 I don't bring disgrace upon the profession and harm people.

00:15:07.440 And so the claims of harm are absolutely unwarranted.

00:15:13.080 Not a single person who submitted a complaint in this latest round is a client of mine, although

00:15:19.000 half of them falsely claimed to be.

00:15:22.000 Oh, so they're stable people.

00:15:23.120 And the college pursued their complaints anyways.

00:15:24.460 Well, I think some of it is they're probably confused about how they're required to identify

00:15:31.720 themselves in the complaint form to be fair.

00:15:35.260 Okay.

00:15:35.800 Or they're just unstable people who spend their time complaining about celebrities on Twitter.

00:15:41.440 Well, that's the other option.

00:15:43.980 If that's what you're doing with your life, you're probably not the most stable person.

00:15:47.960 And yeah, and so anyways, I've gone through all these complaints.

00:15:53.580 And so here's some of them.

00:15:55.600 I retweeted Pierre Poliev, who's Canada's leader of the opposition, when he was making, when

00:16:02.440 he was criticizing the mask lockdowns.

00:16:07.000 I just retweeted him and I said, I said essentially that I agreed with him.

00:16:11.320 That's a complaint.

00:16:13.100 They actually listed that as a complaint.

00:16:14.480 That's one of the complaints.

00:16:15.320 That's insane.

00:16:16.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:17.780 They listed the fact that I criticized Justin Trudeau on multiple occasions.

00:16:24.140 There's a complaint that at one point the police in Ottawa were threatening to act with

00:16:29.680 children's aid to take the children away from the truckers in Ottawa and apprehend them on 0.82

00:16:37.240 the grounds that their parents who were involved in the protest were endangering them.

00:16:41.400 And I tweeted and said, I'm not so sure that we should get the police involved in taking

00:16:47.300 away the children of protesters.

00:16:49.360 And we should think about this.

00:16:51.080 And apparently that makes me an untrustworthy advocate for child, advocate for children who

00:16:59.620 face childhood sexual abuse.

00:17:01.360 Oh my gosh. 0.78

00:17:01.980 You're a mandatory reporter as a psychologist.

00:17:04.340 And so if it comes to your attention that someone has been abused, you're mandated to report

00:17:10.980 it.

00:17:12.360 And so apparently I'm now untrustworthy in that regard because I didn't want the police 0.99

00:17:17.120 to conspire with idiot social workers in Ottawa to apprehend the children of protesters. 0.99

00:17:25.560 And so that's another example of my reprehensible behavior. 0.99

00:17:29.860 I'm being called out for the fact that I objected to Ellen Page's surgical mutilation at the hands

00:17:39.760 of her physicians and her consequent advertisement of her new torso on social media.

00:17:46.160 And I'm also required to submit to this media retraining education because I objected to the Sports

00:17:57.260 Illustrated cover of that relatively overweight young model.

00:18:03.940 And there's other complaints, but that's the bulk of them.

00:18:08.660 And so at least half, oh yes, I criticized.

00:18:11.160 Oh, I tweeted out to Jacinda Ardern that I was coming to New Zealand with my army of

00:18:16.920 alt-right wing trolls, you know, which was clearly a joke.

00:18:20.860 And that's also a complaint because I guess that sort of joke isn't funny when you're dealing

00:18:25.460 with, you know, woke progressives like Jacinda Ardern and Justin Trudeau. 0.86

00:18:30.760 And so, oh yes, I counseled people to commit suicide. 0.61

00:18:35.240 That's another one. 0.55

00:18:36.760 So-

00:18:36.940 Wait, wait, wait.

00:18:37.420 You should describe.

00:18:38.900 Oh yeah, describe that.

00:18:41.160 Yeah, yeah, well, somebody had tweeted out their idea that the planet had too many people

00:18:47.860 on it.

00:18:48.700 And this is not a statement I am very fond of because every time I hear someone say that,

00:18:54.000 I think, okay, who exactly are these excess people that you're referring to?

00:18:59.380 And who gets to decide that?

00:19:02.200 And how do you know that when they decide that something terrible won't happen given that

00:19:06.520 these are excess people?

00:19:07.980 And isn't it okay if I question the humanitarian intent of your motives for making such a reprehensible

00:19:14.080 comment?

00:19:14.500 And so I tweeted to someone who made an argument like that, I tweeted and said, feel free to leave

00:19:21.100 at any time.

00:19:23.140 And which is obviously an ironic joke, but some bloody social worker in the United States 1.00

00:19:28.700 decided that that was like an incitation to suicide and so complained about that.

00:19:35.560 And yeah, and so, and that's, I think, I think that's all the complaints.

00:19:40.260 So let's review this.

00:19:41.720 Not a single one of them was levied by a client of mine, present or former.

00:19:45.580 Not a single one of them was levied by anyone I had actually said anything directly to,

00:19:52.000 private or public.

00:19:54.080 There's no evidence whatsoever that I've produced anything regarding harm because no one has stepped

00:20:02.260 forward to claim harm who is directly harmed.

00:20:05.260 So it's third-party indirect supposition of so-called harm to someone they don't know.

00:20:12.800 And that's the level of evidence that the College of Psychologists is willing to accept as critical.

00:20:19.500 You know, now, when they responded to me, they said that I've, you know, brought disgrace

00:20:25.160 to the profession and caused undue harm to people.

00:20:27.880 And I responded, I'll make this public too, with about 40 questions about their methods.

00:20:33.380 So here's one.

00:20:34.740 Said, well, before I submit myself to this media training re-education, because I'm bound

00:20:41.540 by the ethical standards of my profession, I'm not willing to go get educated unless there's

00:20:46.860 evidence that the contents of the educational program are directly related to the practice

00:20:51.380 of my profession.

00:20:52.360 And that there's evidence that undertaking such re-education actually makes me a more competent

00:20:57.580 therapist.

00:20:58.580 Do you have any independent documentation that these experts that you have hired and foisted

00:21:04.420 upon me have anything approximating genuine expertise?

00:21:08.380 And do you have any evidence whatsoever that such training programs are effective?

00:21:12.380 And of course, they said, we don't have to answer questions like that.

00:21:17.140 And I asked them, I said, you know, there's some evidence that I've done some good in the

00:21:22.660 world.

00:21:24.560 About 7 million people bought my first public book, and I have 15 million subscribers on

00:21:31.500 the three main platforms we operate on, on social media.

00:21:36.020 And lots of people seem to come to my lectures when I am out publicly speaking, saying that I've

00:21:42.980 really helped them in their lives, and that's thousands or hundreds of thousands or possibly

00:21:47.800 even millions of people.

00:21:49.860 And so I think I can stack up a pretty good, plus all the students that I taught at Harvard

00:21:54.160 and the University of Toronto, and all my clinical clients, who by and large were pretty damn

00:21:59.980 happy to be working with me and vice versa.

00:22:02.420 It's like, how do you calculate the harm to benefit ratio?

00:22:06.020 So, and, you know, what evidence do you have that I actually constitute a sufficient threat

00:22:12.640 to the integrity of the profession that you're willing to bring the second harshest actions

00:22:18.020 you have in your arsenal against me?

00:22:20.620 And the answer to that was, we don't have to answer questions like that.

00:22:24.980 And I had like 40 questions like that, none of which were answered.

00:22:28.580 Their answer basically was, we can do whatever the hell we want.

00:22:32.040 And we're telling you, you better go get re-educated, or you face a disciplinary hearing.

00:22:39.200 That's the next step, is that I'd have to face a disciplinary hearing.

00:22:42.620 And what I'm going to do for that, I do believe they videotape that, and I'll take the videotape

00:22:48.540 and put it on my YouTube channel, and people can decide for themselves, which is exactly

00:22:53.320 what I want to have happen in this situation.

00:22:55.200 Like, you and I talked about our strategy here, you know, and I have been unbelievably angry

00:23:00.900 about this, so it's been very hard for me to control my anger, you know, and I know that's

00:23:05.220 not right, and that my desire to seek vengeance is inappropriate, as is the desire in general

00:23:13.940 to seek vengeance, right?

00:23:16.140 But it's very difficult to read through these allegations and to face this waste of my time

00:23:24.780 and the stress it puts on us, to me and your mother and, well, and our whole family, without

00:23:30.520 being outraged at this, you know, and a lot of the battle for the last couple of weeks

00:23:35.780 has just been to keep my temper under control.

00:23:39.640 But you and I, we talked through this, and I talked through it with your mum and with Julian,

00:23:43.840 you know, about the fact that our attitude in general has been just to tell everybody

00:23:50.100 what's going on as clearly as we possibly can, and I want to make it all public, I'm preparing

00:23:55.560 a document today redacting all the names of the complainants, which I have been provided

00:23:59.860 with by the college, by the way.

00:24:01.920 I'm going to redact all their names and identifying information.

00:24:05.140 That's also ridiculous.

00:24:06.660 This just isn't set up very well. 0.96

00:24:09.660 Like, you'd think that if you were a problematic psychologist, you shouldn't be provided with

00:24:14.220 the people's names that complained about you.

00:24:17.180 That doesn't seem smart.

00:24:20.320 Yeah, well, I don't know what to make of that, and it's also problematic that people

00:24:24.620 can levy accusations that bring down the heavy hand of a bureaucratic organization and bear

00:24:31.120 absolutely no personal responsibility to that.

00:24:33.780 But in a sane society, so that would have been Canada up until about five or six years ago,

00:24:40.120 people didn't weaponize the colleges, generally speaking.

00:24:43.220 You know, professionals weren't afraid of their regulatory bodies, because generally the

00:24:48.680 only people who complained were either people who were clearly disturbed, you know, in some

00:24:54.280 fundamental sense, or people who had legitimate reason to believe that they had suffered harm

00:24:59.220 as a consequence of unprofessional behavior on the part of a lawyer or teacher or physician

00:25:04.120 or psychologist.

00:25:04.940 But the radical leftist types have figured out how to weaponize these investigative boards,

00:25:12.760 and the boards themselves have become staffed pretty much uniformly with social justice-oriented,

00:25:21.200 politically correct, faux-compassionate, narcissistic commissars.

00:25:25.800 And they do everything they can to make life miserable for anyone who doesn't share their 0.72

00:25:29.720 political opinions.

00:25:30.380 I mean, it's actually almost beyond comprehension to me that I'm engaged in a battle in my country

00:25:37.840 of Canada, where I have to defend my right to practice my profession as a licensed psychologist.

00:25:45.020 And I would say, especially with my educational pedigree, I mean, Jesus, I was a professor at

00:25:50.080 Harvard and the University of Toronto.

00:25:51.640 I trained clinical psychologists, you know.

00:25:54.740 And the fact that I have to defend my right to conduct my own profession because I retweeted

00:26:01.880 a tweet from the official leader of Canada's Conservative Opposition Party and criticized

00:26:09.060 Justin Trudeau and have made, at least upon occasion, conservative political pronouncements.

00:26:15.280 The fact that that has now made me subject to heavy-handed punishment and investigation by a government-sponsored

00:26:27.100 regulatory board is, I just, it's absolutely incomprehensible.

00:26:32.240 And so that's also, I would say, difficult emotionally because I just can't believe it's happening.

00:26:41.780 Like, what the hell?

00:26:42.960 This is insane. 1.00

00:26:45.400 And so, I mean, and it's, you know, the other thing I think, too, it's so strategically foolish 0.98

00:26:51.180 on the part of the college.

00:26:52.680 I mean, it's one thing to go after me for, let's say, saying something not so pleasant about

00:27:02.220 Ellen Page or about the swimsuit illustrated model.

00:27:06.820 At least you could have an argument about whether or not I was using undue force in my argumentation

00:27:13.360 on those grounds, you know.

00:27:15.280 But to pillory me for engaging in what are clearly political conversations is, well,

00:27:25.340 I don't even know what to say about it.

00:27:30.120 I can't believe it's happening.

00:27:32.100 It's beyond comprehension to me.

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00:28:40.000 And so, you know, and that makes me think, well, you know, is it just me?

00:28:48.220 You know, because people tweet out at me, well, Peterson, you always seem to be in trouble

00:28:52.040 with one authority or another.

00:28:53.400 Maybe it's just you.

00:28:54.500 It's like where there's smoke, there's fire, you know, and I can understand why people think

00:29:00.700 that way.

00:29:01.260 And if something happens to you repeatedly, you have to start wondering if it's you or the

00:29:05.820 situation, but the way that I'm dealing with this, the way that we've dealt with this as

00:29:10.880 a family right from the beginning is just to make it all public, right?

00:29:14.520 And to allow light to be shone on the situation and to derive our conclusions mostly as a consequence

00:29:20.280 of watching the broad public response.

00:29:23.480 And I'm trying to do exactly the same thing here.

00:29:25.580 Like, you know, I'm a very guilt-prone person.

00:29:28.240 And when someone comes after me with accusations, I'm very likely to assume that there is a core

00:29:34.920 of truth in them.

00:29:36.660 And, but I also believe that I have the right to defend myself.

00:29:40.220 And one of the ways of doing that in this situation, this is why we're having this conversation

00:29:45.080 is, I don't believe, I don't have faith that I can expect fair treatment at the hands of

00:29:51.820 this board.

00:29:52.360 And I also don't have any faith, partly because I've talked to a bunch of my legal friends.

00:29:56.780 I don't have a lot of faith in the Canadian judiciary.

00:29:59.780 I mean, people have told me, law professors have told me now that they see continually.

00:30:04.920 Canadian courts who are extremely activist in nature, dispensing completely with such

00:30:10.320 niceties as common law precedent when they're rendering their judgments.

00:30:14.360 And so, I certainly don't believe that the College of Psychologists will treat me fairly.

00:30:19.240 I have seen them treat very few people fairly.

00:30:22.840 And I don't believe that even if we push this forward on the judicial front, which is our

00:30:28.180 plan at the moment, like implementing a challenge to their ruling, for example, on Canadian constitutional

00:30:34.540 grounds, because at least in principle, we have the right to free speech and freedom

00:30:37.800 of conscience in this country, although I don't think we do.

00:30:41.440 Yeah, in principle.

00:30:42.500 Yeah, the protection, as turned out, with the Canadian Charter of Rights is an unbelievably

00:30:46.760 weak and poorly written document that provides Canadians with almost no protection for their

00:30:52.320 rights whatsoever.

00:30:53.360 It was definitely a giant step backwards in relationship to the English common law tradition.

00:30:58.720 And we're now subject to an extraordinarily badly written document whose fundamental propositions

00:31:05.680 can be superseded by the government any time they think there's a sufficiently dire state

00:31:10.840 of affairs.

00:31:12.580 So, I'm making it public and people can decide for themselves.

00:31:17.000 I'll release every bit of correspondence between the College and me over the next few days,

00:31:23.440 you know, redacting out the identifiers.

00:31:25.340 And, you know, I've been...

00:31:26.640 On your website?

00:31:27.340 I've been ambivalent.

00:31:29.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:30.320 I've been ambivalent about that, too, because part of me thinks, well, these people who are

00:31:34.180 complaining to me, they shouldn't get to do it anonymously and hidden away from any consequences

00:31:40.340 of their accusations.

00:31:42.000 But I believe that I'm legally and hypothetically, ethically required to maintain privacy, even in

00:31:50.500 the face of these, what are essentially legal attacks.

00:31:53.940 And, you know, like I said, I'm ambivalent about that because I don't see why I should

00:31:58.480 be made public in such a manner without my accusers having to bear the weight of some

00:32:04.160 responsibility for weaponizing this bureaucracy against me.

00:32:11.320 Now, whatever, it doesn't matter because I'm not going to do it.

00:32:14.320 It's because you've been harming people on Twitter and they're saving people from your

00:32:19.180 harm.

00:32:20.720 Yeah, that's the rationale.

00:32:22.520 Well, you know, it's also been difficult to formulate a defense because I'm not even

00:32:27.180 sure.

00:32:27.940 And this is, I think, part and parcel either of the ignorance of the college or their

00:32:33.500 incompetence.

00:32:34.380 I can't even tell what I'm being accused of.

00:32:37.000 So, for example, one of the complaints submitted as evidence the entire transcript of my three

00:32:42.260 hour discussion with Joe Rogan.

00:32:44.900 And so, you know, and I said all sorts of horrible things on that.

00:32:47.480 Yeah, I know, everything this man ever said.

00:32:50.240 That entire podcast was harmful.

00:32:53.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:54.440 So how do you defend yourself against that?

00:32:57.500 You know, I mean, I think they were objecting primarily to my comments about climate change

00:33:02.580 models and the apocalyptic conclusions that have been derived from them.

00:33:06.480 And, you know, and complaining that I'm not a scientist and bloody well, I am a scientist,

00:33:11.760 by the way.

00:33:12.440 I have 100 scientific publications and that's a lot.

00:33:15.940 And I can read a scientific paper and understand it, unlike those who are accusing me or the

00:33:20.620 people who sit on the college, by the way.

00:33:22.880 And so I'm perfectly capable of understanding a scientific paper.

00:33:27.600 And I believe, and many scientists who are very solid scientists, like Richard Franzen of MIT,

00:33:34.020 who has a pedigree that's absolutely impeccable, agree with everything I said.

00:33:39.000 And so, now that doesn't mean it's right.

00:33:42.220 That's not my claim.

00:33:43.760 But my claim is, is that I'm not going off, you know, with a half-loaded gun here.

00:33:47.900 And I don't say things lightly.

00:33:49.360 But anyways, it's not easy to figure out exactly what I'm being accused of.

00:33:54.380 And so, you know, so the upshot is essentially that I either submit myself to this media retraining

00:34:00.500 program with their experts.

00:34:03.760 Yeah, well, that's not happening.

00:34:05.000 There's just not a chance that that will ever happen.

00:34:07.700 I can't imagine a circumstance under which I would be willing to do that.

00:34:11.120 I mean, I can't imagine how I would possibly sit through such a thing.

00:34:14.220 That sounds awful.

00:34:14.780 You know, somebody said I should just record it and put it on.

00:34:17.660 No way.

00:34:18.180 On, online.

00:34:19.560 You wouldn't be able to stand yourself.

00:34:22.380 You'd last like 30 seconds in there.

00:34:26.880 Yeah, well, I don't know if I'd like to put any educator through the horrible process of having to

00:34:31.400 come and try to re-educate me either, because I can't see how that would go particularly well for them.

00:34:36.300 Yeah.

00:34:36.840 So, I'm not sure who would end up re-educated in a situation like that.

00:34:41.260 But I have my doubts that it would be me, because people have been trying to re-educate me for a long time, and it really hasn't worked that well.

00:34:49.800 So, and that's generally because I don't say things that I haven't investigated right to the bottom.

00:34:55.840 So, in any case, it's very stressful, this.

00:35:00.120 And I've spent, you know, hundreds of hours just trying to organize the arguments that have been marshaled against me and understand what the hell they are.

00:35:09.660 You know, part of the process that's punitive, and the bloody activists know this, is that as soon as you have complaints levied against you,

00:35:17.780 you're basically snowed under by the obligations of what's essentially a serious lawsuit.

00:35:23.080 And, you know, you might say, well, it's not a lawsuit, it's just an investigation.

00:35:26.460 Like, well, the college itself suggests that once one of these investigations is levied, that the person being investigated acquire legal counsel.

00:35:37.860 So, they know bloody well right that this is essentially a criminal, a quasi-criminal investigation, or at least it has that element of process about it.

00:35:48.360 And the social justice warriors who are utilizing these colleges have figured that out, and they're perfectly willing to use third-party bureaucracies as cudgels to enforce their oh-so-compassionate, narcissistic worldview, and to be censorious.

00:36:06.000 You know, and you see this on Twitter, too, as I've made this public.

00:36:09.380 There are good thinkers everywhere who are saying, you know, I got what I deserved, even though it isn't obvious exactly why I deserved it.

00:36:16.640 And I'm not perfectly happy to see this happening.

00:36:19.700 And, you know, that shows you what kind of motivations a large percentage of the population has.

00:36:26.080 You know, in Eastern Germany, a third of the population were KGB informers.

00:36:32.680 And so, there's a very large swath of the public who would be perfectly happy to see anybody who doesn't share their political views punished harshly for their audacity.

00:36:43.720 And I think that's particularly true of radical leftists in relationship to anything that's centrist or conservative.

00:36:50.540 And it's very interesting.

00:36:51.840 Every, you know, I don't only say conservative things, although in the current political climate, I suppose I am more conservative.

00:36:59.880 But every single complaint that's been levied against me is because I uttered a conservative perspective.

00:37:10.080 And so, you know, the probability that that's merely a consequence of chance is vanishingly small.

00:37:15.980 It's one-half times one-half, 12 times.

00:37:20.460 And that's a pretty damn tiny number.

00:37:22.420 So, the idea that this isn't politically motivated is preposterous, conceptually and statistically.

00:37:30.060 I feel like we've had a lot of people reach out to specifically from Canada that are working professionals like doctors.

00:37:37.120 I've spoken with a lot of them who've had generally former patients decide that they didn't like what they were saying on Twitter, specifically.

00:37:46.160 So, conservative doctors, and they're like, oh, I don't like what you're saying on Twitter, and then sending complaints to colleges to get their licenses.

00:37:53.640 So, I don't think this is just happening to you.

00:37:56.000 I think we've talked to a lot of people in Canada that it's happening to, which means, what profession does that mean you can't exactly trust to tell you the truth anymore?

00:38:05.480 Well, you certainly can't trust physicians or psychologists, because they're mandated with regard to affirmative care now.

00:38:16.140 So, for example, you can't assume that if you take a child of yours who's gender dysphoric in for professional evaluation, that they're going to get any evaluation at all.

00:38:26.160 Because psychologists and physicians are mandated to do nothing but agree with the gender dysphoric individual.

00:38:32.200 And lawyers are in the same situation as well, is that they're not, if, for example, a while back, the governing body of the legal profession in Ontario mandated diversity, equity, and inclusivity requirements in relationship to hiring,

00:38:51.340 even on small law firms in Ontario, with the clear implication that if you didn't buy the DEI social justice warrior political line,

00:39:02.400 that you were, that your law firm was no longer in concordance with the dictates of the professional governing body.

00:39:08.640 Now, Bruce Pardy, a law professor at Queen's, fought that back forthrightly with some success.

00:39:15.000 But I've had discussions with all sorts of teachers and nurses and lawyers and physicians.

00:39:20.460 All these people, Canadians need to know this, all these people are so terrified of, a good proportion of these people are so terrified of the regulatory bodies,

00:39:28.700 that there isn't a hope in hell that they're going to be able to tell you the truth when you're in the middle of a medical, educational, or legal crisis.

00:39:36.340 And so, you know, and Canadians are in a real bind because, you know, for 175 years, it was okay in Canada to basically put trust in the public institutions,

00:39:50.020 educational institutions, and professional colleges, and even the political parties, you knew what they stood for,

00:39:55.640 and generally they played the game straight.

00:39:58.080 And that's flipped completely upside down in the last seven years.

00:40:01.200 And that's a terrible, bitter pill for Canadians to swallow.

00:40:04.920 And most of them don't even know it's happened because their primary sources of news, like CBC,

00:40:10.740 is completely corrupted by its $1.4 billion a year payoff from the federal government.

00:40:17.380 CTV isn't much better.

00:40:19.340 Most ordinary people have no idea where to get news.

00:40:22.060 And so they're faced with this terrible conundrum, which is, well, either things have gone badly sideways,

00:40:27.920 especially toward the left in Canada,

00:40:29.680 or the people complaining, like me, let's say, or the truckers, for that matter, 0.99

00:40:35.360 are misogynist, racist, alt-right-wing, confederate, Nazi bigots. 0.99

00:40:40.420 And it's a hell of a lot easier to buy the latter than the former, and no wonder. 0.99

00:40:46.000 But the unfortunate truth is, well, people can decide that for themselves.

00:40:51.280 We'll walk through this again.

00:40:52.400 Again, I retweeted Pierre Poliev.

00:40:56.040 He's the leader of the opposition in Canada.

00:40:59.780 And because of that, I'm being investigated by my regulatory body,

00:41:04.140 my public reputation is at stake,

00:41:06.560 and I may no longer be able to practice or describe myself as a clinical psychologist.

00:41:12.980 And that's how it is.

00:41:15.140 And it isn't just Poliev.

00:41:16.660 It's also the fact that I criticized Trudeau,

00:41:20.400 and I criticized an Ottawa city councillor,

00:41:22.860 and I made a joke at Jacinda Ardenne.

00:41:25.320 And it's not just fluke that every single one of them is on the left.

00:41:30.580 And that's how we are in Canada.

00:41:32.860 And it's not like I don't have some sympathy for the left.

00:41:35.500 You know, I like Russell Brand.

00:41:37.540 Brand does what he can to stand up for working class types

00:41:42.100 against corporate overreach and corporate government collusion

00:41:46.900 to produce a kind of fascist, oppressive fascist overreach

00:41:51.860 in relationship to the working class.

00:41:53.840 And I understand perfectly well that there's a need

00:41:55.940 for a left-wing political voice to stand for the working class,

00:42:01.840 and especially perhaps against the depredations of monopolistic capitalists.

00:42:06.700 But that isn't what's happening on the left

00:42:10.900 in relationship to the sorts of things we're talking about in the least.

00:42:15.100 So, well, so, and it's going to be very hard for Canadians

00:42:19.820 to wake up to this reality.

00:42:21.280 I see no evidence whatsoever that they've woken up yet.

00:42:24.220 Oh, not at all.

00:42:25.880 Not at all, no.

00:42:27.340 So, well, so we'll see what happens when we make all of this public.

00:42:31.460 The next step for the college is to haul me in front of a disciplinary board

00:42:34.780 and, you know, rake me over the coals personally.

00:42:37.440 And I don't imagine I'll accept their diktats when that happens.

00:42:42.680 I can't imagine any circumstances under which that would occur.

00:42:45.440 And then their next step is to publicly announce my refractory nature.

00:42:50.540 They've already defined me as a repeat offender, by the way,

00:42:53.540 highly likely to re-offend.

00:42:55.520 Well, you are highly likely.

00:42:56.400 That's their terminology.

00:42:58.420 Seems like accurate terminology to me.

00:43:01.820 Yeah, well, yeah, I know.

00:43:03.300 Oh, well, if the offenses are defined as saying what I think publicly,

00:43:06.520 then it's pretty much certain I'm going to re-offend.

00:43:09.220 But it's a hell of a terminology to be pasted with, you know,

00:43:13.940 repeat offender with a high likelihood of re-offending, you know.

00:43:18.660 So do we have a timeline about how long this is going to take?

00:43:23.340 And what do you think the percentage,

00:43:26.040 what do you think the likelihood is that they'll take your license?

00:43:28.560 Well, I don't see what choice they have because the next thing,

00:43:36.640 look, what I would like from them, because I might as well make it clear,

00:43:40.480 I want every single one of them to resign and to apologize to me.

00:43:43.840 Well, that's not going to happen.

00:43:46.420 They can't resign.

00:43:47.060 That seems highly unlikely.

00:43:48.760 That seems very unlikely, and I don't know if they're going to.

00:43:51.180 Well, they could resign.

00:43:52.280 What if they just said, you know what, out of 15 million people,

00:43:58.720 12 complaints isn't that bad given they're about tweets

00:44:02.280 and we've decided to stop investigating you.

00:44:05.880 What if they just said that?

00:44:06.780 Well, I don't see how they can do that without admitting

00:44:10.300 that the whole bloody thing was a scam to begin with.

00:44:12.660 Because if it was just one complaint, they could say,

00:44:16.520 well, you know, we've reconsidered and, you know,

00:44:19.280 we may have acted too hastily, but when you do it 13 times,

00:44:23.160 you know, three times is a pattern.

00:44:25.880 13 times, that's pretty much a decision.

00:44:29.720 And if you have to announce publicly that you were wrong 13 times,

00:44:34.560 you're probably so wrong that you're not fit for the job.

00:44:40.100 So the alternative is I'm going to make this public. 0.98

00:44:43.620 I've already told them essentially to go to hell, 0.93

00:44:45.880 although I did it politely.

00:44:47.020 And now they have to drag me in front of a disciplinary hearing,

00:44:52.520 which I will make unbelievably public.

00:44:56.620 And so, and then because I won't move in that regard,

00:45:00.480 as far as I can tell, I don't see that they have a leg to stand on.

00:45:04.180 You know, not only am I being accused in the vast majority

00:45:08.640 of the accusations of having unacceptable political beliefs,

00:45:14.480 but half the people who complained claimed they were clients of mine.

00:45:18.440 So procedurally, this is also a nightmare for them,

00:45:22.660 as far as I can tell,

00:45:24.360 because at minimum,

00:45:25.920 they should have inquired in relationship

00:45:28.360 to these claims that the complainants were clients of mine.

00:45:32.520 They should have noted to them that they weren't,

00:45:35.560 and they should have required them to re-initiate the complaint process

00:45:41.440 without falsehood.

00:45:43.120 And they didn't do any of that repeatedly.

00:45:46.720 And, you know, that's particularly germane,

00:45:48.520 because if the complaint is levied by someone who was a client,

00:45:53.560 the college is obligated,

00:45:55.700 and also tends to take those complaints much more seriously,

00:45:59.000 and to facilitate their movement forward.

00:46:01.280 So I think they've demonstrated such a brutal level of incompetence and corruption

00:46:10.200 that I can't see that they have any way forward

00:46:13.280 except to continue to pursue me,

00:46:15.460 or to resign en masse.

00:46:17.720 And they're not going to do the latter.

00:46:21.320 And so, you know, and this is a dreadful...

00:46:25.520 You know, I've met people.

00:46:27.040 Douglas Murray is a good example.

00:46:28.440 I've met people in my voyage through this weird political landscape

00:46:32.160 who really like this sort of fight, you know, who are up for it.

00:46:36.200 And this is not a criticism of such people.

00:46:38.720 It's...

00:46:39.280 We need people like that, you know,

00:46:40.780 who are capable and willing to have a scrap.

00:46:43.460 Now, the danger of that is that you have more scraps than you should,

00:46:47.660 you know, and that you might be inclined to take pleasure in it when you shouldn't.

00:46:51.480 But I'm not that sort of person.

00:46:53.420 I hate this.

00:46:54.340 It's just...

00:46:55.560 It's really...

00:46:56.380 I find it really, really difficult.

00:46:59.600 I like peace.

00:47:00.980 I mean, part of the reason I engage in conflict is because I...

00:47:03.980 It's paradoxical in some sense.

00:47:06.400 I really want peace.

00:47:07.820 And so, if I have a problem with someone,

00:47:10.100 I want to address it right now.

00:47:12.180 100% right to the bottom

00:47:13.920 to get it the hell out of the way

00:47:15.700 so we don't fight about it for the next 10 years.

00:47:18.360 You know, and your mother and I

00:47:19.480 have conducted our whole relationship with that.

00:47:22.040 You know, it's so funny.

00:47:23.260 We had a date the other night upstairs, you know,

00:47:25.960 and she comes upstairs,

00:47:27.160 and this has happened probably the last three dates we shared,

00:47:29.320 and she always has three bitchy things to say to me 1.00

00:47:31.700 before the date starts.

00:47:32.840 And what she does, though,

00:47:34.180 is she tells me some of the things that are on her mind

00:47:36.520 that are maybe interfering a bit with our relationship.

00:47:39.960 And they're minor things,

00:47:41.100 like I think the last thing is

00:47:42.460 we were discussing how to clean the sink.

00:47:45.340 So we were both happy about it.

00:47:46.700 She wasn't exactly happy with how I was cleaning the sink. 0.80

00:47:48.960 And, you know, and then it was out of the way.

00:47:53.020 And then it was completely out of the way, you know,

00:47:55.780 and then we had a very peaceful time together

00:47:57.480 because there wasn't anything boiling away on the back burner.

00:48:00.700 And when you and Julian were home,

00:48:02.600 you know, we conducted our family life the same way.

00:48:05.080 If we had a bloody problem,

00:48:06.500 we were going to have a discussion about it right now

00:48:10.160 and get to the bottom of it and fix it

00:48:13.140 so that we didn't hate each other.

00:48:15.440 And so I don't like,

00:48:16.640 and I never liked those conversations.

00:48:18.280 I find them very stressful.

00:48:20.600 I'm too high in negative emotion

00:48:23.020 and too high in agreeableness

00:48:24.880 to enjoy that sort of thing.

00:48:27.140 That's my, you know,

00:48:28.580 the detrimental consequences of my feminine temperament

00:48:33.220 to the degree that I have that.

00:48:34.880 And it's quite the degree, actually.

00:48:37.780 And I suppose that's partly what tilted me

00:48:39.760 towards being a clinician in the first place, right?

00:48:41.920 So, and you know, it has its advantages

00:48:44.900 because I do feel the pain of other people quite deeply,

00:48:50.280 but that also makes it very hard for me to fight,

00:48:55.240 even though I'll fight when I know the consequences

00:48:59.360 of not fighting is more fighting.

00:49:01.980 So, yeah, well, that's a paradox, you know,

00:49:06.140 but it isn't because I enjoy it.

00:49:07.700 And, you know, I tried to let the college know

00:49:10.780 through backdoor channels

00:49:13.180 that it might be reasonable for them to consider

00:49:16.440 not doing this

00:49:17.720 because the consequences of making it public

00:49:20.440 would not be positive for the,

00:49:24.000 in my estimation,

00:49:25.260 for the people involved.

00:49:26.400 And I don't want to bring public pressure

00:49:28.660 to bear on people without necessity

00:49:31.360 because it's very unpleasant

00:49:33.300 to be at the center of that kind of focal attention.

00:49:36.580 Well, and you shouldn't bully people,

00:49:39.840 hide behind this pseudo-government organization

00:49:43.360 and pressure people.

00:49:45.900 I think if they get negative feedback,

00:49:48.340 then they have more than that coming to them.

00:49:51.480 Canada is like...

00:49:52.400 Yeah, says the disagreeable person. 0.94

00:49:54.600 Even being in Canada is unpleasant now.

00:49:57.740 I feel like the political landscape

00:49:59.860 has ruined the country

00:50:01.360 and it's because of people who hide behind,

00:50:06.020 or just hide in anonymity

00:50:08.140 and pressure other people

00:50:09.540 for being harmful.

00:50:11.760 Using bureaucracies.

00:50:12.480 Yeah, so whatever.

00:50:14.480 They shouldn't be bullying people.

00:50:15.680 Yeah, well...

00:50:17.060 And they're not just bullying you.

00:50:19.200 Like, obviously,

00:50:19.980 we've had other doctors reach out

00:50:21.820 to say that they're being pressured.

00:50:23.980 Their license is being pressured

00:50:26.240 because of their conservative opinions on Twitter.

00:50:30.260 That's not what these regulatory courts are for. 0.88

00:50:33.620 I talked to one of my great friends this week,

00:50:36.320 a physician, as well as a lawyer,

00:50:38.300 and I suggested that maybe the three of us

00:50:40.460 write an article for the National Post

00:50:43.540 about the state of regulatory bodies

00:50:46.940 in Ontario and in Canada more generally,

00:50:49.040 in the West more generally,

00:50:50.080 because I thought maybe a one, two, three punch

00:50:53.160 might be more effective, you know.

00:50:54.960 But my friend said that,

00:50:59.480 and he's a very brave man

00:51:00.840 and also very, very careful

00:51:02.140 in what he says and does,

00:51:03.800 he said his financial house

00:51:06.240 wasn't in sufficient order

00:51:07.940 to initiate that battle yet.

00:51:10.860 He wants to do it, you know,

00:51:12.280 but he still has...

00:51:13.180 But the point is that

00:51:14.300 even though he's a very brave man

00:51:16.000 and he's made a lot of public statements already,

00:51:18.820 he's intimidated enough

00:51:20.180 by the College of Physicians

00:51:22.140 so that even though he knows

00:51:24.580 that this would be politically effective,

00:51:27.180 he feels that he's not well defended enough yet

00:51:29.980 to take this on fully.

00:51:31.360 And, you know, I can understand that.

00:51:33.200 One of the things that made me able to do this

00:51:35.620 from the beginning,

00:51:36.560 when the university came after me,

00:51:38.740 was that I had three independent streams of income, right?

00:51:42.180 You know, as a professor,

00:51:43.000 I had a clinical practice

00:51:43.960 and I had a pretty successful business.

00:51:46.980 And so I could lose two of those,

00:51:49.000 any two of those,

00:51:49.960 without, you know, being destitute

00:51:52.240 and putting my family at risk.

00:51:53.820 And I'm still in that position now,

00:51:55.400 which is also partly why

00:51:56.480 I'm willing to do this publicly,

00:51:58.240 you know, because I don't want this

00:52:00.700 precisely to be about me

00:52:02.580 because that's just annoying.

00:52:04.140 I want to shed light on the fact

00:52:05.940 that this is a...

00:52:07.000 on my belief that this is a universal problem

00:52:10.500 of public concern in Canada and elsewhere.

00:52:13.000 And I can do that

00:52:13.920 because the worst thing the college can do to me

00:52:15.880 is...

00:52:17.380 Well, the worst thing they can do

00:52:20.480 is suspend my license

00:52:21.540 and make a public statement

00:52:22.960 that because of my refusal

00:52:24.440 to comply with their dictates,

00:52:26.300 I'm no longer acceptable

00:52:29.420 as a licensed clinical psychologist.

00:52:31.900 And I don't want them to do that

00:52:33.660 because I don't want...

00:52:35.080 I believe that I earned my license

00:52:38.000 and am also a good advocate

00:52:40.520 on the clinical front.

00:52:41.960 And I don't want to be in a position

00:52:44.520 where faceless bureaucrats

00:52:47.780 motivated by a political agenda

00:52:50.080 and whatever envy and resentment

00:52:51.740 they carry in their dark

00:52:53.020 and nasty little hearts 0.98

00:52:54.160 have the opportunity to strip me

00:52:56.160 of something that I spent a decade

00:52:57.880 of extremely hard work earning.

00:53:01.020 And...

00:53:01.200 But, you know, if I...

00:53:02.480 If they do strip it from me,

00:53:04.420 well, first of all,

00:53:06.320 that's not going to redound

00:53:07.360 to their credit.

00:53:08.100 Second, I can probably get licensed

00:53:10.900 in a jurisdiction like Florida

00:53:12.720 with a bit of work

00:53:13.920 if I wanted to.

00:53:14.860 That would be satisfying.

00:53:15.780 Who wants to be part of this

00:53:17.100 creepy little club of psychologists

00:53:20.400 that are just telling people lies anyway?

00:53:23.760 If the entire profession

00:53:25.060 is being forced to not tell

00:53:27.420 their clients the truth,

00:53:28.980 then maybe you should drop that club.

00:53:31.100 It's worse than that.

00:53:31.940 It's worse than that, Michaela.

00:53:33.660 The bodies that govern

00:53:36.720 the training programs

00:53:39.320 for clinical psychologists in Canada,

00:53:41.580 the Canadian Psychological Association,

00:53:43.940 has increasingly moved

00:53:46.200 to make it mandatory

00:53:47.320 for universities

00:53:49.220 that offer clinical psychology training

00:53:51.520 to do that

00:53:53.120 under the rubric of social justice

00:53:55.540 or face the suspension

00:53:57.840 of the accreditation

00:53:59.160 of their programs.

00:54:00.440 And that's also happening

00:54:01.380 in medicine.

00:54:02.060 Everyone listening,

00:54:03.120 you bloody well better

00:54:04.040 listen to this, people, 0.55

00:54:05.320 because we're entering

00:54:06.200 a situation where

00:54:07.320 the universities themselves

00:54:08.920 are required to ensure

00:54:10.480 that your physicians

00:54:11.960 and your psychologists

00:54:13.060 are of a particular

00:54:15.160 political stripe,

00:54:16.940 which essentially means

00:54:17.960 radically left.

00:54:18.960 Not just left,

00:54:19.880 but radically left,

00:54:20.880 like social justice,

00:54:22.720 full, woke,

00:54:24.220 critical, racist theory,

00:54:26.800 oppressive, patriarchal narrative,

00:54:29.040 feminist left wing,

00:54:30.720 or the institution itself

00:54:33.580 will not be allowed

00:54:34.540 to train physicians

00:54:36.280 or psychologists.

00:54:37.940 And I know that sounds

00:54:38.900 like a conspiracy theory,

00:54:40.320 and well,

00:54:41.340 go look it up for yourself

00:54:42.640 and see if it's true,

00:54:43.920 because it's true

00:54:44.600 right down to the last word.

00:54:46.680 And so if you Canadians,

00:54:47.960 you think you're going

00:54:48.880 to be served well

00:54:49.940 by craven political ideologues

00:54:52.960 who are primarily selected

00:54:54.460 to be physicians

00:54:55.340 on the basis

00:54:56.360 of their political purity, 0.82

00:54:57.860 you've got a bloody

00:54:58.760 another thing coming.

00:54:59.960 That didn't work out

00:55:00.840 so well in Eastern Europe.

00:55:02.400 Let me tell you,

00:55:03.800 it's not going to work out

00:55:04.680 very well for us either.

00:55:06.280 And so part of the reason

00:55:07.140 I'm willing to make

00:55:07.800 this battle public

00:55:08.700 is to try to alert people

00:55:10.820 to the fact that

00:55:11.560 we're a hell of a lot

00:55:12.680 farther down this road

00:55:13.800 than we think.

00:55:15.180 You know,

00:55:15.520 I went through Eastern Europe

00:55:16.680 for four months this spring,

00:55:18.540 talking to people there.

00:55:20.120 I had the privilege

00:55:21.920 of meeting,

00:55:22.680 you know,

00:55:23.300 30 or 40 people

00:55:24.260 in each country

00:55:24.920 who were political

00:55:25.660 or cultural leaders

00:55:26.800 across the political spectrum,

00:55:28.860 including leftists

00:55:29.860 who'd be mobbed like mad

00:55:31.560 by their own compatriots.

00:55:33.400 And every single one

00:55:34.580 of the people I talked to,

00:55:36.140 virtually without exception,

00:55:37.300 in Eastern Europe,

00:55:38.400 said something like,

00:55:40.000 do you know what happened here

00:55:41.380 between the end

00:55:42.860 of the Second World War

00:55:43.900 in 1989

00:55:44.620 when we were dominated

00:55:46.500 by the communists?

00:55:47.960 Do you know how awful

00:55:48.900 it was here?

00:55:49.860 That was particularly

00:55:50.540 true in Albania.

00:55:51.640 Do you know you people

00:55:52.660 in the West

00:55:53.100 are walking down

00:55:54.080 exactly the same road? 0.62

00:55:56.000 What the hell's wrong with you?

00:55:57.920 Don't you notice? 0.99

00:55:59.560 And this included

00:56:00.200 the socialists

00:56:01.060 in those Eastern European countries,

00:56:03.480 you know,

00:56:03.780 who remember

00:56:04.500 the tender mercies

00:56:05.700 of the radical leftists

00:56:08.080 and the fact that,

00:56:09.540 you know,

00:56:09.760 one out of three people

00:56:11.020 in most of those countries,

00:56:12.700 even if they were

00:56:13.240 within your own family,

00:56:14.300 were government informers.

00:56:15.740 And where the joke was,

00:56:17.240 we pretend to work

00:56:18.380 and they pretend to pay us

00:56:19.640 and where people

00:56:20.440 spent hours in bread lines

00:56:21.980 and fought over

00:56:23.220 terrible little

00:56:24.420 rat hole apartments 0.58

00:56:25.460 as they were

00:56:26.420 quasi-starving to death,

00:56:27.940 unable to ever tell

00:56:28.900 the truth or speak.

00:56:31.120 Yeah.

00:56:32.840 That's not good.

00:56:35.620 No.

00:56:36.360 No, and that's why

00:56:37.460 you're in Florida.

00:56:38.200 I know.

00:56:39.300 Florida's great.

00:56:40.640 It's weird.

00:56:41.820 People here are weird,

00:56:43.060 but it's good weird.

00:56:44.740 It's free weird.

00:56:45.980 Yeah.

00:56:46.240 It's not stifled

00:56:48.060 like Toronto right now.

00:56:50.540 I hate it there.

00:56:51.640 Yeah, yeah.

00:56:52.200 Like, I don't know

00:56:52.680 how you felt

00:56:53.340 going back there

00:56:54.160 and I don't know how,

00:56:55.380 I've got lots of friends

00:56:56.220 in Toronto,

00:56:57.100 but it is not

00:56:58.380 the same Toronto

00:56:59.160 as it was

00:57:00.080 in 2015

00:57:01.820 or 2016.

00:57:03.260 You go there,

00:57:04.200 it's kind of like California.

00:57:05.660 You can feel the weight

00:57:07.220 of silence

00:57:09.480 in that place.

00:57:11.880 Yeah, well,

00:57:12.820 your mom and I

00:57:13.520 have been back here

00:57:14.380 for a month.

00:57:15.060 You know,

00:57:15.240 we're pretty worried

00:57:16.000 about coming back

00:57:16.760 because we've faced

00:57:17.480 a fair bit of resistance

00:57:18.800 in our neighborhood.

00:57:20.580 Like, I'm probably

00:57:21.180 more unpopular

00:57:22.080 in some sense

00:57:23.420 in Toronto

00:57:24.100 and more particularly

00:57:25.080 in my neighborhood

00:57:25.880 than I am anywhere else

00:57:27.040 in the world.

00:57:27.640 Yeah.

00:57:28.140 And so,

00:57:28.720 it was somewhat worrisome

00:57:30.060 to come back to Toronto.

00:57:31.280 It's very worrisome.

00:57:31.980 My son moved

00:57:32.660 out of our neighborhood

00:57:33.620 in part because

00:57:34.580 it was uncomfortable

00:57:35.660 for him to be there

00:57:36.800 even though that's

00:57:37.520 where he grew up

00:57:38.340 thanks to the machinations

00:57:40.460 of certain neighbors.

00:57:41.920 It's been hard

00:57:42.380 on your mom too,

00:57:43.140 because I come downstairs

00:57:44.360 well, the other day

00:57:45.560 when I was going through

00:57:46.420 what happened in 2016.

00:57:48.920 You know,

00:57:49.200 I came downstairs

00:57:49.860 I could hardly stand up.

00:57:51.200 A lot of the symptoms

00:57:51.880 I had over the last

00:57:52.800 couple of years

00:57:53.360 came back

00:57:54.060 and that's

00:57:55.080 really pretty frightening

00:57:56.840 for me

00:57:58.140 and for her

00:57:58.880 to see.

00:57:59.860 You know,

00:58:00.080 I had to sit down

00:58:01.020 on the floor

00:58:01.600 five or six times.

00:58:04.880 That sounds like PTSD.

00:58:09.520 Well,

00:58:10.000 who knows,

00:58:10.620 you know,

00:58:10.900 what it is

00:58:11.920 but I recovered

00:58:13.000 fairly quickly

00:58:13.860 which is,

00:58:14.660 you know,

00:58:14.900 an indication

00:58:15.400 of my return to health.

00:58:18.080 So,

00:58:18.520 but it's hard

00:58:18.960 on your mom too 0.98

00:58:19.680 because I'm bitchy 1.00

00:58:20.500 as can possibly be 0.87

00:58:21.620 after going upstairs

00:58:22.580 and wrestling

00:58:23.100 with this material

00:58:24.000 and,

00:58:24.760 you know,

00:58:24.940 we had a big conversation

00:58:25.860 this week

00:58:26.540 about how she should

00:58:27.940 be involved

00:58:28.540 because I don't want

00:58:29.200 to drag her into this

00:58:30.420 and,

00:58:31.360 you know,

00:58:31.680 and she doesn't want 0.98

00:58:33.640 to blame me

00:58:34.780 for being entangled

00:58:35.980 in it

00:58:36.660 and we don't want

00:58:38.200 to stress

00:58:38.700 our relationship,

00:58:40.400 you know,

00:58:40.700 so I don't know

00:58:41.260 how much to protect

00:58:42.160 her from this

00:58:42.980 and how much

00:58:44.120 to share with her.

00:58:45.580 You know,

00:58:45.840 I thought,

00:58:46.260 well,

00:58:46.340 maybe when I'm

00:58:47.480 writing out

00:58:48.080 my college defense,

00:58:49.540 I should go

00:58:50.540 to a hotel room

00:58:51.440 and,

00:58:51.720 you know,

00:58:52.480 grapple with it there

00:58:53.420 because

00:58:53.820 I'm much more irritable

00:58:56.800 at least for some

00:58:57.620 period of time

00:58:58.380 after confronting

00:58:59.780 all of this.

00:59:00.620 Like,

00:59:00.900 it's calmed down a bit

00:59:01.820 now that I've got

00:59:02.460 my argument,

00:59:03.360 you know,

00:59:03.620 in order.

00:59:04.520 I've looked

00:59:05.080 through all the material.

00:59:06.100 There isn't any snakes

00:59:07.040 left under the carpet

00:59:08.020 to bite me

00:59:08.780 and so I think

00:59:09.780 I'm through the

00:59:10.540 most demanding

00:59:12.820 part of it

00:59:13.480 although God only knows

00:59:14.440 what's going to happen

00:59:15.100 as this unfolds

00:59:16.260 because there's always

00:59:16.840 the possibility

00:59:17.540 I'll make a mistake

00:59:18.860 while I'm defending

00:59:19.780 myself too,

00:59:20.780 you know,

00:59:21.300 because I could easily

00:59:22.000 do that

00:59:22.500 because it's so complicated

00:59:23.620 but,

00:59:25.020 you know,

00:59:26.420 your mom and I

00:59:27.000 are on the same page

00:59:27.800 in relationship to this

00:59:28.840 which is,

00:59:30.100 you know,

00:59:30.340 she believes that

00:59:31.080 if I just say

00:59:32.060 what's happening,

00:59:33.320 if I do my best

00:59:34.060 to tell the truth

00:59:34.880 without adornment

00:59:35.880 and to try to keep

00:59:37.220 my volatile temper

00:59:40.720 under control

00:59:42.420 that this will turn out

00:59:45.000 the way things

00:59:45.800 have turned out

00:59:46.440 for us in the past

00:59:47.500 which is it'll be

00:59:48.380 rather dreadful

00:59:49.720 in the short term

00:59:50.540 but resolve itself

00:59:54.280 somewhat favorably

00:59:56.020 in the medium

00:59:56.540 to long run

00:59:57.260 but that's easy to say

00:59:59.220 when the medium

00:59:59.820 to long run

01:00:00.460 hasn't made itself

01:00:01.280 manifest yet.

01:00:02.520 Yeah.

01:00:03.460 This also might

01:00:04.520 just be

01:00:05.340 this might just be

01:00:07.560 something that's

01:00:08.160 happening that no one

01:00:09.520 can really get out of

01:00:10.520 and by that I mean

01:00:12.020 we see what direction

01:00:14.140 the universities

01:00:14.740 are going in

01:00:16.000 so you can fight

01:00:17.260 back against that

01:00:18.320 but basically

01:00:19.840 at the moment

01:00:20.600 going to get

01:00:21.320 a university degree

01:00:22.340 seems like

01:00:23.160 maybe not the best idea

01:00:25.160 if you end up

01:00:26.220 in hundreds of thousands

01:00:27.320 of dollars of debt

01:00:28.260 being taught

01:00:29.000 by ideologues

01:00:30.220 and then being taught

01:00:31.640 information that won't

01:00:33.180 lead to a job

01:00:33.980 just seems like

01:00:34.900 a scam right

01:00:36.160 and if this is

01:00:37.320 what's going on

01:00:37.940 with colleges

01:00:38.520 and if they're controlling

01:00:39.700 working professionals

01:00:40.720 so that the working

01:00:41.920 professionals have to

01:00:43.060 work in a way

01:00:43.720 that isn't truthful

01:00:45.020 I mean

01:00:45.940 how do you even fight

01:00:47.080 how do you fight

01:00:48.180 back against that

01:00:49.200 at what point

01:00:49.980 do you just stop

01:00:50.820 playing in that game

01:00:52.680 well that

01:00:54.720 you know

01:00:55.120 people have asked me

01:00:55.900 that too

01:00:56.260 why don't you just

01:00:56.880 give up your license

01:00:57.880 and I would say

01:00:58.680 well

01:00:58.980 because I wouldn't

01:01:00.280 be giving it up

01:01:01.260 I would be allowing

01:01:03.040 it to be taken

01:01:04.300 away from me

01:01:05.260 like if I decide

01:01:06.880 in a year

01:01:07.280 that I don't want

01:01:08.020 to be a licensed

01:01:08.780 clinical psychologist

01:01:09.660 because the whole 1.00

01:01:10.420 damn profession 1.00

01:01:11.140 has become corrupt 1.00

01:01:12.120 that's a whole

01:01:13.160 different issue

01:01:13.800 than letting

01:01:14.740 this pack 0.97

01:01:15.440 of craven 1.00

01:01:16.600 commissar cowards 0.99

01:01:18.020 organize

01:01:19.260 behind the scenes

01:01:20.940 utilize the complaints

01:01:23.380 of random

01:01:24.660 people online

01:01:25.560 trying to justify

01:01:26.480 their own

01:01:27.600 envy

01:01:28.320 and desire

01:01:29.000 to prosecute

01:01:29.940 and then fold

01:01:31.020 in the face

01:01:31.620 of that opposition

01:01:32.460 it's like

01:01:32.980 I'm not going

01:01:33.600 to do that

01:01:34.280 now you say

01:01:35.600 well what do you do

01:01:36.460 and I think

01:01:37.260 the only answer

01:01:37.960 to that is

01:01:38.560 I think

01:01:39.500 the only thing

01:01:41.340 you have

01:01:41.880 in a complex

01:01:42.520 situation

01:01:43.280 is the truth

01:01:45.260 that's all you have

01:01:47.340 that's why you have

01:01:48.540 to abide by the truth

01:01:49.660 you know

01:01:49.940 because when things

01:01:51.040 get complex

01:01:51.700 around you

01:01:52.320 how do I deal

01:01:53.180 with this politically

01:01:53.940 how do I deal

01:01:54.720 with this personally

01:01:55.620 what do I say

01:01:56.860 in this terribly

01:01:58.080 complex situation

01:01:59.380 all you have

01:02:01.100 there that's

01:02:01.720 solid ground

01:02:02.280 is the truth

01:02:03.080 and one of the

01:02:04.440 things to reflect

01:02:05.160 upon in relationship

01:02:06.040 to that is

01:02:06.680 that's also why

01:02:07.800 you have to live

01:02:08.580 honestly

01:02:09.140 you know

01:02:10.040 because it's very

01:02:10.700 hard to tell

01:02:11.440 the truth

01:02:12.100 if you're

01:02:12.900 simultaneously worried

01:02:14.180 that the evidence

01:02:15.060 of your past

01:02:15.800 misbehavior

01:02:16.620 your past

01:02:17.220 deceitful misbehavior

01:02:18.400 is going to come

01:02:18.920 to light

01:02:19.380 and so the reason

01:02:20.600 you abide by

01:02:21.300 the truth

01:02:21.780 is so that

01:02:22.360 you can say

01:02:23.680 what you have

01:02:24.340 to say

01:02:24.700 about what

01:02:25.180 you've done

01:02:25.600 and who you are

01:02:26.400 and you can do

01:02:27.360 that under

01:02:28.000 impossibly

01:02:29.220 difficult circumstances

01:02:30.900 and possibly

01:02:32.500 that will

01:02:33.260 sustain you

01:02:34.920 through that

01:02:35.660 in you know

01:02:37.020 in circumstances

01:02:37.860 where if that's

01:02:39.480 not possible

01:02:40.120 you're just

01:02:40.520 going to get

01:02:40.920 crushed

01:02:41.380 you know

01:02:42.380 and people

01:02:42.700 might say

01:02:43.140 well being

01:02:43.660 investigated

01:02:44.280 by your

01:02:45.220 professional body

01:02:46.080 isn't exactly

01:02:46.860 a life-threatening

01:02:47.640 event

01:02:47.980 and you're just

01:02:48.620 whining

01:02:49.020 it's like

01:02:49.440 look

01:02:50.080 for all you

01:02:51.380 people who think

01:02:52.860 that this is

01:02:53.380 such a walk

01:02:54.080 in the park

01:02:54.640 I'll tell you

01:02:55.900 two things

01:02:56.520 number one

01:02:57.420 I've known

01:02:58.300 about 200 people

01:02:59.460 who face this

01:03:00.220 sort of thing

01:03:00.720 now

01:03:00.980 and every single

01:03:02.240 one of them

01:03:02.840 every single

01:03:03.920 one of them

01:03:04.640 with the exception

01:03:06.600 of those people

01:03:07.460 who like a fight

01:03:08.960 right

01:03:09.580 of tiny tiny

01:03:10.580 minority of people

01:03:11.600 maybe one or two

01:03:12.680 in that entire 200

01:03:13.760 they reacted

01:03:15.140 as if

01:03:15.600 they or someone

01:03:16.540 they loved

01:03:17.000 had contracted

01:03:17.620 a life-threatening

01:03:18.360 illness

01:03:18.760 I've known

01:03:19.700 people

01:03:20.100 very stable

01:03:21.280 people

01:03:21.780 extremely

01:03:22.760 elegant

01:03:23.560 polished

01:03:24.260 educated

01:03:25.000 well positioned

01:03:26.460 well supported

01:03:27.500 people

01:03:27.860 who literally

01:03:28.820 ended up

01:03:29.340 in psych wards

01:03:30.100 because of the

01:03:30.980 pressure that was

01:03:31.980 brought to bear

01:03:32.540 on them

01:03:32.860 by the

01:03:33.780 accusatory mob

01:03:35.340 and so those of you

01:03:36.420 who think this is a

01:03:37.260 cakewalk

01:03:37.740 you just bloody well

01:03:38.980 wait till your

01:03:39.660 neighbors show up

01:03:40.340 on your doorstep

01:03:41.140 with pitchforks

01:03:42.240 and torches

01:03:42.760 and you just see

01:03:43.860 what that's like

01:03:44.560 for yourself

01:03:45.240 so you better

01:03:46.520 watch yourself

01:03:47.260 very carefully

01:03:47.980 if you think

01:03:49.100 that the people

01:03:49.700 who are complaining

01:03:50.300 about being mobbed

01:03:51.280 are just complaining

01:03:52.380 because they can't

01:03:53.200 take it

01:03:53.700 yeah

01:03:54.140 so

01:03:54.880 well that

01:03:55.460 you also hear

01:03:56.220 you hear about

01:03:56.880 I mean that 0.90

01:03:57.340 that's a silly 0.84

01:03:58.180 thing to think too 0.95

01:03:59.220 you hear about

01:04:00.640 university students

01:04:01.820 who

01:04:02.140 you can get

01:04:02.860 bullied online

01:04:03.840 it's not

01:04:04.780 life-threatening

01:04:05.680 but it is

01:04:06.220 life-threatening

01:04:06.880 to some people

01:04:07.700 like it makes

01:04:08.540 some people

01:04:09.020 suicidal from stress

01:04:10.320 well look

01:04:11.560 there's two great

01:04:12.360 there's two great

01:04:13.280 classes of fear

01:04:14.340 Michaela

01:04:14.860 there's only two

01:04:16.840 one of them is

01:04:18.120 death

01:04:19.080 death and physiological

01:04:21.020 and psychological

01:04:22.120 disintegration

01:04:23.120 so you could think

01:04:24.080 about that as

01:04:24.760 the terror of

01:04:25.980 biological

01:04:26.640 vulnerability

01:04:27.640 that's one class

01:04:29.640 of fears

01:04:29.880 the second great

01:04:30.920 class of fear

01:04:31.560 is fear of

01:04:32.840 social exclusion

01:04:33.660 and part of the

01:04:34.900 reason is

01:04:35.420 is that historically

01:04:36.420 if you're socially

01:04:37.760 excluded

01:04:38.380 you're dead

01:04:39.640 so they're the

01:04:42.080 same fear

01:04:42.900 you know

01:04:43.520 because your

01:04:44.040 social inclusion

01:04:45.060 protects you

01:04:46.460 from dying

01:04:47.220 right

01:04:48.020 you work with

01:04:48.640 other people

01:04:49.120 you cooperate

01:04:49.780 with them

01:04:50.340 you play with

01:04:51.020 them

01:04:51.220 you eat with

01:04:52.640 them

01:04:52.880 you're dependent

01:04:53.560 on their labor

01:04:54.340 you're literally

01:04:56.000 sustained in your

01:04:57.560 life by your

01:04:59.260 social desirability

01:05:01.240 and your inclusion

01:05:02.540 and so if that's

01:05:03.660 taken away from

01:05:04.520 you your reputation

01:05:05.500 is sullied or

01:05:06.360 shattered

01:05:06.800 people shun you

01:05:08.100 not only are you 1.00

01:05:09.140 loathsome and 1.00

01:05:09.720 isolated but

01:05:10.440 you're really in

01:05:11.960 trouble

01:05:12.300 and your nervous

01:05:13.240 system reacts to

01:05:14.360 that as if it's a

01:05:15.200 mortal threat

01:05:15.920 which it is

01:05:16.880 and so you know

01:05:18.120 one of the problems

01:05:18.800 with online culture

01:05:21.520 and the culture of

01:05:22.640 anonymity

01:05:23.240 you know people have

01:05:23.920 been pointing to

01:05:24.580 this and saying

01:05:25.120 well now are you

01:05:26.020 sorry that you've

01:05:27.280 gone after anonymous

01:05:28.380 trolls because look

01:05:29.580 at what happens if 0.96

01:05:30.940 you're not anonymous

01:05:31.740 as I think no I

01:05:32.660 still think you 0.95

01:05:33.320 people are cowardly 0.99

01:05:34.320 and most of you 1.00

01:05:35.240 are narcissists

01:05:36.160 and you don't have

01:05:37.560 the courage of

01:05:38.080 your convictions

01:05:38.740 and the problem

01:05:41.900 of anonymity is

01:05:43.600 that the anonymous

01:05:44.420 denouncers get the

01:05:46.660 upper hand and 0.99

01:05:47.420 there the research

01:05:48.980 is clear on this

01:05:50.080 I just talked to

01:05:50.740 Del Paulus this

01:05:51.660 week the the

01:05:52.860 developer of the

01:05:53.640 idea of the dark

01:05:54.420 triad and the dark

01:05:55.420 tetrad and there's

01:05:56.220 a huge body of

01:05:57.100 research that's

01:05:58.380 emerging showing

01:05:59.280 that online trolls

01:06:00.980 especially the

01:06:01.760 anonymous types are

01:06:03.020 much more likely to

01:06:04.220 be this is fun

01:06:05.300 narcissistic

01:06:07.020 so that means they

01:06:08.360 want social status

01:06:09.620 they believe they

01:06:10.700 deserve social

01:06:11.460 status and that

01:06:12.120 they should get it

01:06:12.720 without earning it

01:06:13.540 machiavellian which

01:06:15.440 means they'll

01:06:16.000 manipulate other

01:06:16.720 people instrumentally

01:06:17.640 to get what they

01:06:18.200 want independent of

01:06:19.320 the consequences for

01:06:20.320 that person

01:06:20.940 psychopathic which 0.82

01:06:23.340 means they're 0.98

01:06:23.960 predatory and

01:06:25.480 parasitical

01:06:26.480 parasitical meaning

01:06:27.700 they're perfectly

01:06:28.300 willing to use your

01:06:29.860 work as means for

01:06:31.100 their sustenance

01:06:32.180 and this is the

01:06:34.160 new part of the

01:06:34.880 dark tetrad which

01:06:35.880 has expanded it

01:06:36.740 beyond the triad

01:06:37.560 sadistic

01:06:38.960 lovely

01:06:39.540 which means taking

01:06:40.640 a positive

01:06:41.380 positive delight

01:06:43.000 in the evident

01:06:44.280 suffering of others

01:06:45.340 not only failure to

01:06:47.240 experience that

01:06:48.160 suffering so that

01:06:49.080 callousness that

01:06:50.180 might be part and

01:06:50.940 parcel of you know

01:06:52.080 being disagreeable and

01:06:53.400 and tough but

01:06:54.900 actually experiencing

01:06:56.260 a positive delight in

01:06:57.680 the suffering of

01:06:58.340 others that's what

01:06:59.180 lolz means right

01:07:00.260 lolz the plural of

01:07:02.680 lulz of

01:07:04.000 sorry lulz

01:07:05.700 l-u-l-z 1.00

01:07:06.540 is the plural of

01:07:07.880 lol laugh out loud

01:07:09.500 and to do something

01:07:10.680 for the lulz is

01:07:12.520 literally to do it

01:07:13.560 online so that you

01:07:14.480 can watch other

01:07:15.160 people squirm and

01:07:16.060 suffer and that's

01:07:17.240 sadism and so

01:07:18.700 Paulus has been

01:07:19.560 just you know has

01:07:20.500 been investigating

01:07:22.060 ordinary dark

01:07:24.500 tetrad behavior and

01:07:25.760 looking at its

01:07:26.400 contribution to

01:07:27.360 online behavior and

01:07:28.780 it's certainly the

01:07:29.400 case that you know

01:07:30.720 some of the

01:07:31.600 complaints that are

01:07:32.280 levied against me

01:07:33.400 by the ontario

01:07:34.740 college of

01:07:35.240 psychologists were

01:07:36.300 just submitted to

01:07:37.360 the college as

01:07:38.280 tweets so they

01:07:39.860 just used the

01:07:41.320 college tagline at

01:07:43.320 cp ontario to

01:07:45.340 point my college to

01:07:47.320 one of my tweets

01:07:48.180 and that was the

01:07:49.200 complaint and so

01:07:50.560 these people who

01:07:51.720 are willing to use

01:07:52.660 their anonymity to

01:07:54.520 inform and accuse

01:07:55.900 have the upper hand in

01:07:57.440 a virtualized society

01:07:58.600 you know and that's

01:07:59.720 another reason why

01:08:00.720 I've you know I've

01:08:01.940 had some moral

01:08:03.860 doubts about whether

01:08:05.140 I should just make

01:08:05.900 all of this public

01:08:07.100 like every bit of

01:08:08.140 the documentation

01:08:08.980 everything the

01:08:10.060 college sent me

01:08:10.900 which would include

01:08:11.820 the identifiers of

01:08:12.900 the complainants

01:08:13.620 but and I'm still

01:08:15.920 not sure that in the

01:08:17.340 fundamental most

01:08:18.520 fundamental manner

01:08:19.740 that's not the

01:08:20.520 appropriate thing to

01:08:21.420 do but because I'm

01:08:23.020 not sure and

01:08:24.120 because at least

01:08:25.380 technically my

01:08:26.280 understanding at the

01:08:27.120 moment is that

01:08:27.760 that's not that I

01:08:29.640 wouldn't be abiding by

01:08:30.540 the dictates of the

01:08:31.360 college I'm still

01:08:32.280 more than willing to

01:08:33.440 play by the rules

01:08:34.320 and those rules might

01:08:35.700 be right you know I

01:08:36.580 still I don't know

01:08:38.380 what to do with that

01:08:39.340 because under normal

01:08:40.180 circumstances I can

01:08:41.240 understand why the

01:08:43.160 anonymity of the

01:08:44.400 complainant publicly

01:08:46.000 would be maintained

01:08:47.160 right because it

01:08:48.420 stops people who have

01:08:49.560 a legitimate grievance

01:08:51.580 from being intimidated

01:08:52.900 by those against whom

01:08:54.240 they have the

01:08:54.720 grievance but those

01:08:55.940 rules only apply when

01:08:57.140 people aren't

01:08:57.740 weaponizing the

01:08:58.620 colleges and as soon

01:09:00.340 as the colleges are

01:09:01.140 weaponized when when

01:09:02.360 you can manipulate

01:09:03.000 bureaucracy into being

01:09:04.500 a club for your

01:09:05.500 viewpoint then what

01:09:07.720 constitutes ethical

01:09:08.720 behavior on the part

01:09:09.660 of the defendant starts

01:09:10.700 to become murky and

01:09:13.260 that's also part of

01:09:14.040 what makes this

01:09:14.600 stressful yeah well I

01:09:16.420 think just ignoring the

01:09:17.740 people who actually did

01:09:18.560 the complaints is the

01:09:19.460 right way to go because

01:09:20.220 they don't matter and

01:09:21.360 if they weren't there

01:09:22.260 somebody else would be

01:09:23.220 making the same kind

01:09:24.400 complaint it's a college

01:09:26.340 issue right but that's a

01:09:28.060 weird argument right

01:09:29.000 because and I you may

01:09:30.320 well be right and that's

01:09:31.280 obviously what we've

01:09:32.120 decided to do too but

01:09:33.220 there is part of me that

01:09:34.240 also thinks no you know

01:09:35.980 any given individual can

01:09:37.900 cause a lot of trouble

01:09:38.960 if they set out to do

01:09:39.960 that and the idea that

01:09:41.580 you shouldn't be

01:09:42.600 responsible for your

01:09:43.980 accusations is

01:09:45.860 questionable especially

01:09:47.380 when what you're

01:09:48.040 essentially doing is

01:09:48.920 levying the equivalent of

01:09:50.540 a legal charge yeah I

01:09:52.600 think that's the right

01:09:53.380 option it also I think

01:09:54.720 just on a more

01:09:56.160 selfish level I think

01:09:57.340 it'll be easier given

01:09:58.980 the fact that this is

01:09:59.780 going to be a battle for

01:10:00.600 a while and it might

01:10:02.020 end it might end badly

01:10:04.860 I don't know how it's

01:10:05.640 going to end I don't

01:10:06.280 trust Canada it would be

01:10:07.900 better for you

01:10:08.700 emotionally not to be

01:10:09.920 involved in a personal

01:10:10.880 way as much as you can

01:10:12.460 so like forget who the

01:10:14.140 people who made the

01:10:14.880 complaints are even

01:10:16.440 though they're probably 0.68

01:10:17.780 despicable human beings 0.92

01:10:19.320 there's tons of 0.99

01:10:21.340 despicable human beings 0.98

01:10:22.480 out there better to just 1.00

01:10:23.580 ignore them and tell

01:10:25.260 everybody what's going

01:10:26.080 on and ideally have a

01:10:27.820 backup plan like if they

01:10:29.040 do come for your

01:10:29.780 license can you just I

01:10:31.840 mean I assume getting a

01:10:32.760 license yeah well it's

01:10:33.540 it's hard to know you

01:10:34.480 know it's hard to know

01:10:35.380 if it's better to ignore

01:10:36.540 them there's lots of

01:10:37.360 psychological studies

01:10:38.500 about what people do to

01:10:41.320 cheaters in games and

01:10:43.540 people are so motivated to

01:10:45.320 punish cheaters that

01:10:46.220 they'll give up some of

01:10:47.400 their own privileges for

01:10:48.560 the right to do so and

01:10:50.500 some of that's actually

01:10:51.500 salutary well look

01:10:52.700 Michaela if you let the

01:10:54.280 cheaters get away with

01:10:55.600 it they dominate and

01:10:57.460 take everything that's

01:10:58.820 the psychopathic niche

01:11:00.460 that's why it even

01:11:01.680 exists biologically is

01:11:03.600 because you can get

01:11:04.840 somewhere with

01:11:05.520 exploitation and you

01:11:07.100 particularly get

01:11:07.920 somewhere with

01:11:08.440 exploitation if the

01:11:10.020 people you are

01:11:10.580 exploiting don't object

01:11:12.180 and so you actually have

01:11:14.220 a moral obligation to

01:11:15.400 object you know to not

01:11:16.800 let people get away with

01:11:17.840 breaking the rules when

01:11:19.240 people come after me

01:11:20.340 well I don't they can't

01:11:21.960 just be let off the

01:11:23.660 hook right so it it's

01:11:27.300 very but I we look I

01:11:28.340 think we've walked this

01:11:29.400 through quite appropriately

01:11:30.440 is that no I should

01:11:31.540 really be concentrating on

01:11:32.620 the college and not the

01:11:33.820 individual complainants I

01:11:35.440 should be concentrating on

01:11:36.440 the college in a way that

01:11:37.240 has broad public

01:11:38.280 significance because it

01:11:39.900 shouldn't just be about

01:11:41.020 me it's about a broader

01:11:42.740 social problem that we

01:11:44.660 should use the truth and

01:11:46.000 public exposure transparency

01:11:48.900 to mount the best defense

01:11:51.860 and we should all keep

01:11:53.720 our heads while doing so

01:11:55.160 but that's a well there's

01:11:58.140 no better strategy than

01:11:59.280 that but it's a tight rope

01:12:01.280 to walk that's for sure

01:12:03.180 and the other problem is

01:12:04.560 Mick it's so easy to slip

01:12:07.000 off this you know it's like

01:12:08.240 when I've been in the most

01:12:09.620 tendentious interviews that

01:12:11.260 have been directed at me

01:12:13.160 um Helen Lewis comes to

01:12:15.380 mind in particular every

01:12:17.160 single comment that some

01:12:19.200 of these journalists have

01:12:20.160 made is a trap right and

01:12:23.740 the trap is I think I

01:12:25.940 could goad you into saying

01:12:27.320 something that would be

01:12:28.360 impulsive and aggressive

01:12:29.640 enough to blacken your 0.71

01:12:31.500 reputation permanently so

01:12:35.440 and therefore to destroy

01:12:36.540 your life in some

01:12:37.320 fundamental sense just so

01:12:39.260 that it would redound to

01:12:40.880 my moral credit and if you

01:12:43.020 all listening think that

01:12:44.080 I'm being paranoid you go

01:12:45.280 read Nellie Bowles apology

01:12:46.980 for what she did as a New

01:12:48.480 York Times journalist yeah

01:12:50.120 and you tell me that this

01:12:51.540 isn't true because she came

01:12:53.120 right out and said that's

01:12:55.200 exactly what she did when

01:12:56.640 she worked at the New York

01:12:57.720 Times now she thinks she's 0.88

01:13:00.100 learned better but I would

01:13:01.320 say if you already went that

01:13:03.180 far in that direction you

01:13:05.520 have an awful lot of

01:13:06.740 learning to do yeah and I

01:13:08.320 would be very hesitant to

01:13:09.700 claim you've now learned

01:13:11.300 your lesson and or a good

01:13:12.620 person you know there's

01:13:14.500 some things that it takes a

01:13:15.800 long time to come back

01:13:17.040 from and that's certainly

01:13:18.480 one of them I would happily

01:13:20.020 destroy someone's reputation

01:13:21.640 just so that my articles got

01:13:23.920 more attention online it's like

01:13:25.580 oh yeah really and you knew

01:13:27.860 that too you didn't just do it

01:13:29.880 unconsciously you did it

01:13:31.600 consciously and you did it

01:13:33.080 repeatedly and you did it for

01:13:35.240 the New York Times and now

01:13:37.400 you're sorry it's like yeah

01:13:39.600 10 years in a convent

01:13:42.760 flagellating yourself might

01:13:45.260 make you sorry maybe like I've

01:13:48.980 watched people in my clinical

01:13:50.380 practice try to walk back from

01:13:52.700 significant moral errors it is

01:13:55.240 not that easy you know there's

01:13:56.780 that Catholic doctrine that you

01:13:58.280 can be saved and redeemed no

01:14:00.240 matter what your sin it's like

01:14:02.420 that's true but that doesn't

01:14:03.760 mean you have you don't have to

01:14:05.180 face the consequences of what

01:14:06.700 you've done and like if you want

01:14:09.000 to repent and you've done

01:14:10.280 something seriously wrong so

01:14:12.400 much of you have to change has

01:14:14.420 to change that it's almost like

01:14:16.180 you have to die in order to be

01:14:18.000 reborn so anyways for those who

01:14:22.900 are listening that's another

01:14:23.880 reason why you should try to

01:14:25.240 step forward carefully in your

01:14:26.880 life you know because you will be

01:14:29.000 called to attend for your

01:14:31.060 misbehavior and it will occur

01:14:32.720 during a period of crisis and if

01:14:34.820 you're a mess and a deceitful mess

01:14:36.820 you're going to find yourself in 0.99

01:14:38.580 trouble so profound you can

01:14:40.760 barely imagine it so anyways I

01:14:46.020 don't know kid this isn't really

01:14:47.640 what I wanted to do on your

01:14:48.880 birthday this is exactly what I

01:14:51.500 wanted to do on my birthday I think

01:14:55.440 that I think that's good I think I

01:14:57.300 think we covered what's going on and

01:15:00.880 we'll keep people updated we can do

01:15:02.960 another update podcast and you're

01:15:06.260 going to record anything that

01:15:07.640 happens in the future I think

01:15:08.780 that's more than fair record

01:15:10.380 everything as much as possible and

01:15:12.480 just yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely

01:15:15.880 yeah yeah I'm not doing any of this

01:15:17.540 behind closed doors so enough of

01:15:20.240 that if it has to be done behind

01:15:21.560 closed doors you know unless I'm

01:15:23.400 convinced that there's a real

01:15:24.480 concern for confidentiality if it has

01:15:26.840 to be done behind closed doors the

01:15:28.400 reason for that is either you know

01:15:29.780 justifiable concerns for privacy or a

01:15:32.380 kind of corruption that can't bear

01:15:33.780 public scrutiny and since this is a

01:15:36.040 public inquiry as to my suitability to

01:15:39.600 speak publicly as a clinical

01:15:41.120 psychologist I'm perfectly willing to

01:15:43.740 what ensure that the show trial is as

01:15:47.820 broadly attended to as possible so

01:15:51.080 anyways I have no idea how this is

01:15:53.260 going to go Mick I mean who do I I'm

01:15:56.200 gonna oh I wrote Trudeau I wrote

01:15:59.480 Justin yesterday and just let him

01:16:01.820 know what was happening yeah yeah I

01:16:05.040 and said you know turns out that I'm

01:16:07.380 having my professional license

01:16:08.740 threatened because I don't agree with

01:16:10.920 you which I certainly don't and I just

01:16:14.660 thought you know you might be

01:16:15.760 interested in knowing that this is

01:16:17.040 occurring on your watch and so

01:16:18.460 anyways I wrote him and then I sent

01:16:20.520 that to the National Post and they

01:16:22.600 said they wanted to publish it as an

01:16:24.040 op-ed so I added a introductory

01:16:27.280 paragraph and a concluding paragraph

01:16:28.980 just to let everybody know the

01:16:30.320 context and that's going to be

01:16:32.040 published tomorrow and I know a

01:16:33.920 number of reporters who are going to

01:16:35.520 cover this in the next few days and

01:16:37.260 it'll get some international

01:16:39.560 attention soon and so what do you

01:16:43.100 think is going to happen

01:16:43.940 hmm I think I had to guess I think if I

01:16:52.260 had to guess I think that they'll say

01:16:55.660 you know what after looking into these

01:16:58.620 we realized that these are just random

01:17:01.120 people on Twitter complaining and we're

01:17:04.140 going to throw them throw them out and

01:17:06.580 not pursue you further I think that's

01:17:09.340 what my guess is the alternative is they

01:17:11.940 literally take your license and I think

01:17:14.020 that that's also easily possible but

01:17:16.640 it would be such a public war and it

01:17:19.520 just it shows that their system is

01:17:22.920 broken it's obvious that the system is

01:17:25.620 broken if that's what happens if they

01:17:27.340 take your license for your opinion

01:17:30.500 tweets it shows that their system is

01:17:33.540 broken I don't think that they can let

01:17:34.840 that happen and eventually someone will

01:17:36.720 figure out what's happening and say

01:17:37.860 guys you have to let this go somebody

01:17:39.680 at the top yeah what do you think well

01:17:42.540 I don't know I don't know I don't know

01:17:44.740 you know because I keep thinking that

01:17:46.220 you know the tide will turn and this is

01:17:48.220 self-correcting but everything's

01:17:49.980 self-correcting in the long run yeah but

01:17:53.220 you know when the Israelites were

01:17:55.100 wandering through the desert that was

01:17:56.500 three generations so the long run can

01:17:58.980 be a very long time and things self

01:18:00.800 corrected in the Soviet Union to some

01:18:02.880 degree but it took 60 years and you know

01:18:06.120 30 to 40 million deaths and so things

01:18:09.400 can fall apart pretty damn badly and if

01:18:11.420 we think we're immune to that in a place

01:18:13.060 like Canada it's just because we're you 0.61

01:18:14.960 know so sheltered we're naive beyond

01:18:17.460 belief it isn't clear to me at all that

01:18:19.600 a third of Canadians have virtually no

01:18:22.960 allegiance whatsoever to the ideas of

01:18:25.440 freedom of association allegiance conscience

01:18:28.680 and expression the rapidity with which

01:18:32.500 Canadians particularly in Toronto leapt forward

01:18:36.100 to adopt all the restrictions of the

01:18:37.960 mask mandates was absolute evidence of

01:18:40.660 that and there's still plenty of people

01:18:42.100 here who are more than happy to have

01:18:44.480 their masks on and who I think would

01:18:45.960 wear them for the rest of their lives

01:18:47.560 especially if they had the extra delight

01:18:49.920 of being to tell of being able to tell

01:18:52.080 other people that they also had to wear

01:18:54.060 them so I don't know what will happen

01:18:56.680 kiddo I mean what do I think will

01:19:01.120 happen I think I don't think that they'll

01:19:06.660 do what you said at least in the

01:19:09.320 immediate future because I think they

01:19:11.320 made too many decisions already to

01:19:13.480 backtrack without the kind of

01:19:16.280 embarrassment that should necessitate

01:19:17.880 resignation and so I think what will

01:19:20.080 happen is they'll pray devoutly that I

01:19:22.080 go the hell away and I'm actually afraid

01:19:24.200 of their you know their their public

01:19:27.460 hearing but I'm not in fact I'm much

01:19:30.100 less afraid of that because I can

01:19:31.980 represent myself then I'm much less

01:19:34.320 afraid of that than of anything we're

01:19:35.720 doing presently and so I think they'll

01:19:37.860 go through with that I think they have

01:19:39.700 to I don't know there's two end points

01:19:43.200 they resign and apologize or they walk

01:19:48.040 this through and take my license those

01:19:50.240 are the options so I guess it depends

01:19:53.440 how badly Canada is going to fall before

01:19:56.240 it corrects itself because I think the

01:19:58.520 universities are dead I think the

01:20:00.700 universities are dead I don't know if

01:20:02.320 you know colleges that are around for

01:20:06.580 doctors those might be dead too so it can

01:20:10.460 get pretty bad no the classic the classic

01:20:13.020 hallmark of a tyrant is that under duress

01:20:16.720 they double down so I suspect what they'll

01:20:20.380 do now is they'll release something like a

01:20:23.040 public statement indicating that my

01:20:25.300 vociferous attempts to defend myself

01:20:27.980 are nothing but my utility of my own

01:20:31.300 proclivity for bullying to bring the

01:20:33.920 weight of my alt-right followers unfairly

01:20:36.660 to bear on this issue

01:20:38.000 so they'll play the victim card right

01:20:42.260 despite the fact that

01:20:43.420 that I have left them alone 100% and

01:20:50.280 that the reverse isn't true now they'll

01:20:51.840 say well they're just doing their

01:20:52.880 professional duty it's like well I

01:20:54.400 guess that's what the dispute's about

01:20:55.720 I don't think you're just doing your

01:20:58.240 professional duty I think you're a pack 0.99

01:21:01.360 of envious scoundrels hiding your own 1.00

01:21:03.920 incompetence behind the opportunity to 0.96

01:21:05.960 persecute that's what I think and so

01:21:09.000 you know when you think I'm a

01:21:10.380 reprehensible alt-right bully it's like

01:21:12.740 okay I think you're wrong about that let's

01:21:16.160 have it out we'll see what everyone

01:21:19.000 thinks when the dust settles so I guess

01:21:22.160 that's where we're at kiddo yep and

01:21:24.960 we'll keep everybody posted online

01:21:26.700 we'll link the article in the YouTube

01:21:30.060 description yep and all and we'll link

01:21:33.400 this document that makes all the

01:21:35.040 correspondence that's relevant and

01:21:37.600 legally appropriate available

01:21:39.600 you

01:21:40.600 you

01:21:42.760 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - January 12, 2023

322. College of Psychologists vs Jordan B Peterson ｜ Mikhaila Peterson

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