The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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00:00:57.420 Hello everyone, I'm here today talking to Majid Nawaz, a colleague and, well, dawning friend of mine.

00:01:16.180 We've spoken a number of times in a variety of different circumstances.

00:01:19.200 Most recently, Majid had contacted me with some opposition to things I had said or allowed to be said.

00:01:29.720 Or facilitated the transmission of, let's say, talking to Benjamin Netanyahu about the situation in Palestine.

00:01:36.800 And so we've been going back and forth on that front and decided to have a conversation.

00:01:40.260 And so that's what's happening today.

00:01:42.440 Here and also on the Daily Wire, on YouTube and also on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

00:01:46.420 Majid Nawaz is a British anti-extremist, political commentator, activist, and podcast host.

00:01:55.100 He was recently released from his LBC radio show as a consequence of his views on the COVID-19 pandemic.

00:02:04.080 He wasn't really in favor of the mandated vaccines and has been, as has roots as one of the original

00:02:09.300 named members of the hypothetical intellectual dark web, along with characters such as myself, Douglas Murray, and Ben Shapiro, among others.

00:02:19.520 Good to have a chance to talk to Majid again today.

00:02:24.080 Hi, Majid. It's been a while since we've had a chance to talk.

00:02:27.480 I don't, I think I, the last time we spoke, I think was probably on your show, wasn't it?

00:02:32.560 And that was what, is that four years ago, three years ago?

00:02:36.840 Thank you for remembering.

00:02:38.200 I was very proud to be the first national broadcaster to conduct a long-form interview with you in Britain on the national airwaves.

00:02:47.540 A job I have since cancelled from.

00:02:49.260 But it was around the time of your own incredibly interesting conversation on Channel 4, when what became a meme, of course, from there, if you remember, was.

00:02:59.200 So what you're saying is, and your responses to that persistent question, basically were the stuff of legend.

00:03:05.380 So it's a pleasure being here again with you, Jordan.

00:03:08.380 And as I said, thank you for remembering that we had that conversation.

00:03:11.860 They had some sound issues.

00:03:12.940 Oh, yeah.

00:03:13.460 It's still on YouTube, and people can still catch that.

00:03:15.920 And it was before the world went mad, I think, even though we could probably both see it was on the way to going mad.

00:03:22.320 It was definitely on the way.

00:03:24.180 Yeah, that Channel 4 interview with Kathy Newman, I think, has 30 million views now.

00:03:29.920 Still doesn't, it refuses to die.

00:03:32.440 But interesting, you know, I was interviewed a couple, probably two years later, by Helen Lewis for the GQ on, putatively, for their issue on masculinity, strangely enough.

00:03:43.880 And that interview, Helen had more tricks in her bag than Kathy Newman, and that interview now has 60 million views.

00:03:53.300 But they're both reflections of the same underlying surreal strangeness that we see ourselves constantly surrounded with now.

00:04:02.040 But that's not where I first met you, though.

00:04:05.340 I first met you when I had just finished my touring with Sam Harris, and you had just come on the scene there with Sam and began your dialogues.

00:04:14.200 Right.

00:04:14.500 And I was in the audience, actually, for some of those, especially the ones in London.

00:04:18.420 And again, thank you for having us at your recent London event, Usman and I, my brother, Usman, that you met.

00:04:24.940 We were very happy to see you there as well.

00:04:27.360 We met, I think, with Douglas Murray, didn't we, at that point, for a dinner, for lunch?

00:04:33.560 Yep.

00:04:34.060 Yeah.

00:04:34.420 Tammy was there.

00:04:35.240 Tammy was there.

00:04:35.960 Douglas was there.

00:04:36.620 You were there.

00:04:37.200 And I think it was in his London flat at the time that he had.

00:04:40.140 And we had a lovely conversation then as well.

00:04:42.840 Yeah, it's been a while.

00:04:43.380 It's been many years we've been in touch.

00:04:44.580 But this is, I think, the first time we've sat down on your show, and it's actually, I'm very happy that we're doing this because I think the time is, it's a good time.

00:04:53.280 Yeah.

00:04:54.200 So for everybody watching and listening, I've been corresponding with Majid for the last couple of months trying to set this up.

00:05:00.820 And a fair bit of that has circulated around the Abraham Accord issue that I've been speaking about and the Israel-Palestine situation.

00:05:10.740 And so I thought we might as well hash that out to begin with.

00:05:15.040 And so I'm not exactly sure how to begin that.

00:05:17.680 Maybe I'll start by talking about my experience on the Abraham Accord front.

00:05:22.280 And you can tell me, you know, what you think about that.

00:05:24.900 And then we'll dive into the weeds.

00:05:26.360 So I was very ill for a good while from 2000 and even 2018 when I was on tour.

00:05:34.580 But it got really bad by 2021.

00:05:36.680 I was kind of out of commission for about three years.

00:05:39.160 And when I started to spring back to life, some people in my circle alerted me to the emerging fact of the Abraham Accords.

00:05:49.260 And I started to keep an eye on them and was very struck by what was happening.

00:05:53.580 The fact that this peace process, putative peace process, was emerging outside of the confines of the State Department under the tender auspices of Donald Trump and his organization.

00:06:08.260 And it looked to me like an extraordinarily, it had the potential to be an extraordinarily significant advance.

00:06:14.600 And then I was struck by how much it was downplayed in the, let's say, legacy press and also by the Democrats that I was working with.

00:06:25.180 Because I worked with some Democrats behind the scenes for a very long time and was unable to elicit from them any real enthusiasm for this move forward.

00:06:36.040 Which struck me as very, very odd, to say the least, and still does.

00:06:42.520 And since then I've investigated the process by which the Abraham Accords were negotiated with a number of the people who were directly involved.

00:06:54.220 Including the former Israel ambassador to the U.S. and the American ambassador to Israel and still am of the opinion that this looks like an avenue to something approximating peace in an area that has been characterized by very little peace for a very long time.

00:07:16.980 So, in any case, that's the situation on my front and we've exchanged a bit of email about that topic and I'm, well, I'm very interested in your views about the Abraham Accord and about, to the degree that you regard that as relevant, about my involvement with publicizing it.

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00:09:11.180 Well, first of all, it's something I raised as well before I was cancelled on my previous show on LBC.

00:09:22.720 I was cancelled for the record three months before my contract was due to expire,

00:09:26.820 and the reason I was cancelled was very evident and clear to me.

00:09:30.540 I have all the receipts and, in fact, five years remaining on a legal case that I initiated,

00:09:36.000 and the lawyers were so happy with the case that they're doing it without charge.

00:09:39.740 And my basic point was that I was cancelled for raising COVID mandates,

00:09:45.100 being what I believe one of the greatest crimes ever committed or attempted to be committed against humanity.

00:09:51.180 And I objected to the mandates and refused as a conscientious objector to take from the booster shot onwards.

00:09:57.680 Having been coercively injected in prison against my will,

00:10:01.260 I thought that it was absolutely unacceptable for the state to put me back in that position.

00:10:07.640 Because everything I had been fighting for since up until that point,

00:10:13.800 including on LBC, and this relates to the Abraham Accords question you've just asked me, Jordan,

00:10:18.500 was for universal peace and love.

00:10:21.880 And with the background that I have, which I won't go into now, it's well known,

00:10:26.280 and if anyone wants to catch up on that, they can watch my other interviews.

00:10:29.720 But with the background I have, I thought it was particularly important for me to reach out to all communities in peace

00:10:37.240 and extend a hand of peace.

00:10:39.460 We say, salam alaikum, when we meet people.

00:10:41.800 And I did so with, you know, I don't need to go over that as well.

00:10:45.340 The track record there for the last decade, what I've been doing is very clear.

00:10:48.500 It culminated in my dialogue with Sam Harris, Islam, and the future of tolerance.

00:10:52.940 And that turned into a film.

00:10:54.540 So when the Abraham Accords came about, in that spirit, Jordan,

00:10:58.060 of course you'd expect me to want to give peace a chance.

00:11:02.540 And my views in reaction to that are on the record.

00:11:06.500 They're all there online.

00:11:07.680 And again, before my job was cancelled, in fact, clips were uploaded of me embracing the opportunity for peace.

00:11:13.800 What I'd like to say in response to your question,

00:11:17.020 but I think it was necessary, that preamble was necessary,

00:11:21.320 because I think peace, though it must be embraced,

00:11:25.860 it has to be, regardless of power dynamics,

00:11:29.520 I believe it has to be presented,

00:11:33.060 the opportunity has to be presented as if we are speaking to equals.

00:11:38.300 And I don't mean equals in terms of physical strength, war capabilities.

00:11:43.300 I mean human equals, I mean cognitive equals, I mean spiritual equals.

00:11:50.300 And for that reason, I'm probably, again, a caveat for what I'm about to say.

00:11:56.480 I'm probably one of the most vocal Muslim voices in the West

00:11:59.960 who has advocated for giving peace a chance.

00:12:02.520 Considering my background and where I've come from,

00:12:04.620 I have every excuse not to want to give peace a chance

00:12:08.160 when it comes to how the world has treated certain people, including me, in the past.

00:12:12.380 But I think it's really important that we have to fight for peace.

00:12:17.640 And one of the ways that it's possible is,

00:12:21.160 regardless of material power dynamics,

00:12:23.280 we approach the so-called adversary,

00:12:25.520 who is really a mirror of ourselves, as an equal.

00:12:29.640 And the reason I mention that is that there's certain language

00:12:32.280 around the entire question of the Middle East.

00:12:35.500 And it's what I think I gave you a bit of a telling off.

00:12:38.160 I'm sorry, Jordan.

00:12:38.760 And it's better in person with a smile than it is online.

00:12:44.560 So I'm happy to have this opportunity to explain why I believe this is a much better way for us to progress.

00:12:51.580 And that is because there are certain language that is used around,

00:12:55.800 not just the Abraham Accords, but peace in the Middle East,

00:12:58.060 which can be unintentionally can come with stigmatizing connotations

00:13:06.040 that build up a feeling of otherness as opposed to bringing people closer together,

00:13:12.660 which is a prerequisite for peace.

00:13:14.240 Our language has to bring people closer together.

00:13:17.200 If our language is stigmatizing while we're saying that we want peace,

00:13:21.060 then unfortunately that's not the behavior of somebody that wants peace.

00:13:24.160 That's the behavior of somebody who wants to blame the adversary for still being angry

00:13:28.580 while they've extended a hand of peace.

00:13:30.400 And the only persons that have the ability to do that are those that have the material power,

00:13:35.180 in other words, the luxury, to be able to afford speaking in tones that are divisive

00:13:41.200 while saying, I'm extending a hand in peace.

00:13:43.720 So a person that has nothing but their dignity to try and defend in any war situation

00:13:50.180 will only ever expect people to address them as a cognitive and a spiritual equal on a human level.

00:13:56.980 So when I say language, you're no stranger to this, Jordan,

00:13:59.820 because of your own expertise and what in fact has led you to prominence around the world,

00:14:06.560 because you understand the importance of language and context and symbolism and tradition.

00:14:11.100 So I would love to revisit this question of language, actually, as we continue speaking later on.

00:14:18.960 But for now, I'll just say the example, because I think it goes all the way back to the oral tradition

00:14:24.700 and why it's important to remember before the written word how language was received and given,

00:14:32.200 which I'm sure you're aware to what I'm alluding in terms of the Semitic tradition as well.

00:14:36.380 But we can come to that later.

00:14:38.080 For the moment, what I'd like to say is, write down to, if we want the Abraham Accords to work,

00:14:42.880 write down to the adjectives we use to describe it.

00:14:48.500 As I said, I've probably done with respect, and I don't mean this to be in any sense arrogant, Jordan.

00:14:53.440 I don't mean to boast and I don't mean to put you down.

00:14:55.920 I've probably done more than you for peace in the Middle East.

00:14:59.960 That wouldn't surprise me at the least.

00:15:01.620 And I've suffered for it.

00:15:04.640 And so take this from a brother who says it to you, that I think that, for example,

00:15:09.320 when we say things like Judeo-Christian civilization, when we know for a fact that historically,

00:15:15.660 all of the philosophies and the principles that we cherish so dearly in our small S open societies,

00:15:24.400 because I don't want to endorse Soros' program of open society.

00:15:27.460 So all of the principles and values we endorse in our small O and small S open societies

00:15:32.660 were protected, cherished, and then translated by the golden era in the Middle East

00:15:39.040 during the time of the ancient caliphates.

00:15:41.800 And we know the heritage of Andalusia, Islamic Spain,

00:15:45.380 and the way in which the philosophies were preserved from there,

00:15:47.820 how Maimonides and others emerged from there.

00:15:49.940 And we understand, therefore, that part of this equation, Judeo-Christian civilization,

00:15:55.120 it's a deliberate amputation of a limb, not to include Muslims within that conversation.

00:16:04.200 And so Abrahamic is more inclusive.

00:16:06.320 But I've noticed people increasingly use Judeo-Christian civilization

00:16:10.340 when talking about challenging the woke, for example.

00:16:13.700 Another problem there is that what does that lead to?

00:16:15.900 Why am I raising that?

00:16:16.780 Because the othering, words for me, I believe, are spells.

00:16:20.980 And when we cast spells, we create feelings in people that receive those words.

00:16:26.240 So when we speak in those terms, that excludes one key element of that,

00:16:31.280 from that conversation.

00:16:33.060 Though, of course, I know I'm a British citizen,

00:16:35.900 and I'm welcome here in this discourse.

00:16:38.540 If it's a Judeo-Christian civilization I'm expected to assimilate into,

00:16:44.260 then I will always be the other.

00:16:45.700 And I will always be approaching this discourse from an outside perspective,

00:16:50.860 and will be heard as the other by those on the inside.

00:16:55.180 But if we understand that our civilization isn't only Judeo-Christian,

00:16:58.900 and in fact, right down to algebra coming from al-Jabr,

00:17:02.860 al-Khwarizmi, who invented the concept,

00:17:06.240 the sifr or the zero either coming from the Sanskrit in Indian

00:17:09.600 or from the Arabic numerals.

00:17:12.780 You know, I could go on and on.

00:17:14.480 If we understand that, then there's no way that philosophically

00:17:18.940 we could ever find ourselves in a position where,

00:17:21.780 whether we've thought or not, we don't raise,

00:17:23.940 there's no way we could ever raise a question

00:17:25.560 that erases the existence of a people.

00:17:28.440 And that's what I believe happened when you spoke to Netanyahu.

00:17:32.160 I believe the attempt to erase the existence of Palestinians.

00:17:36.780 I believe the attempt to present the squatter analogy.

00:17:40.960 In other words, as was expressly stated in that conversation

00:17:44.160 between you and Benjamin Netanyahu,

00:17:47.400 that this was empty land, had no occupiers,

00:17:49.940 and therefore when we arrived, like the squatters in an empty property,

00:17:53.620 we immediately have right over this land.

00:17:55.460 And that recognises absolutely no claim for Palestinians.

00:18:00.500 I believe that's exclusionary language

00:18:02.100 and doesn't aid the spirit of what's called the Abraham Accords.

00:18:05.500 It in fact denies a people.

00:18:07.860 And last thing I'll say, Jordan.

00:18:09.260 Last thing I'll say very quickly.

00:18:10.380 Yeah, please.

00:18:10.980 Yeah, no, no, go ahead.

00:18:12.020 It's not a new point.

00:18:12.920 It's not a new point.

00:18:15.360 So when we do that, of course,

00:18:17.200 how do we expect Palestinians to receive that language?

00:18:20.360 If they receive it being excluded, that leads to reaction.

00:18:23.760 In other words, anger.

00:18:25.160 It leads to a separation, not a bringing together.

00:18:28.540 And I acknowledge one thing, by the way,

00:18:30.380 that the term Palestinian in our language is a modernist term.

00:18:33.960 So I'm not getting stuck on semantics.

00:18:36.080 I'm saying that there were an Arab people there as well.

00:18:39.160 And they must be acknowledged.

00:18:40.640 Whether you want to call them Palestinians,

00:18:42.500 whether you want to call them Shami Yin, Levantine,

00:18:45.680 today they happen to be in the area

00:18:47.240 that is within Israeli military authority called the West Bank.

00:18:50.180 Today they happen to say, okay, you know,

00:18:52.420 this is, we're Palestinian because this is the ancient land of Palestine.

00:18:55.500 I don't prefer, I prefer not to get stuck on semantics.

00:18:58.080 I know Netanyahu's argument is,

00:18:59.760 oh, but there was no such thing as Palestine.

00:19:01.120 There was no such thing as Israel before 1948.

00:19:03.140 There was no such thing as Pakistan,

00:19:04.400 my parents' country of origin, of which I have a national ID card.

00:19:07.680 I'm not dismissing or lowering or belittling any country.

00:19:10.320 Yeah?

00:19:10.900 So we have to, I think, acknowledge identity

00:19:13.400 so that we can have the conversation,

00:19:16.500 the spirit for which Abraham accords,

00:19:18.480 the spirit for which it was named.

00:19:19.840 I hope that makes sense.

00:19:22.160 Okay, so you brought up three very complex issues there.

00:19:26.040 And so let me walk through them one by one.

00:19:29.680 So one of the things that has struck me very positively

00:19:34.820 in my life in the last five years

00:19:39.140 is the fact that the work that I've done,

00:19:43.700 particularly with regards to the elucidation

00:19:46.520 of the meaning of Genesis,

00:19:48.420 has attracted a very large number of Muslims.

00:19:52.500 And I'm very happy about that.

00:19:54.860 And I've had completed a number of podcasts

00:19:57.740 with Muslim thinkers,

00:19:59.140 I would say across the entire spectrum of Muslim thought,

00:20:03.460 not comprehensively, obviously,

00:20:05.540 but people ranging from pretty traditionalist,

00:20:08.940 I would say Muslim fundamentalists,

00:20:10.820 to people who are as liberal on the Muslim side as it gets.

00:20:13.980 And then also critics of the Muslim tradition,

00:20:17.040 like Ayaan Hirsi Ali,

00:20:19.000 trying to understand more deeply

00:20:22.340 the situation that we find ourselves in.

00:20:25.080 And I need to say a couple of things.

00:20:27.000 I mean, I'm extraordinarily ignorant

00:20:28.760 in relationship to my understanding of Islamic culture.

00:20:34.960 It's a closed book to me in many ways.

00:20:37.840 I've done what I could to rectify that,

00:20:40.840 but it's very difficult to come to an understanding

00:20:43.200 of your own culture,

00:20:44.100 much less to try to claim expertise

00:20:45.980 in the niceties of someone else's culture,

00:20:48.480 especially when it's an extraordinarily diverse culture.

00:20:51.080 So, you know, I'm stumbling around in a sea of ignorance.

00:20:53.940 And I would also say the same thing

00:20:55.600 with regards to the situation in Jerusalem.

00:20:59.140 I mean, I was just in Jerusalem

00:21:00.520 a couple of months ago for the first time.

00:21:03.180 And one of the things you learn very rapidly

00:21:06.080 if you're in Jerusalem for even a few days

00:21:07.960 is that that place is so bloody complicated

00:21:09.900 that it's amazing it's not on fire all the time.

00:21:14.300 And so, and clearly it's also the case

00:21:16.900 that whenever there's ongoing conflict,

00:21:19.400 like there is in the Middle East,

00:21:21.340 it's because the situation is so complex

00:21:24.820 that no one and everyone has a handle on it.

00:21:29.360 No one understands and that's why it descends into warfare.

00:21:33.360 There's no agreement on what the realities are.

00:21:36.500 And so people fight.

00:21:38.060 And so the problem with commenting on that

00:21:41.020 or putting a toe in the water

00:21:42.840 is that the probability

00:21:44.140 that you're going to say something stupid

00:21:45.900 and the certainty that you're going to eat by piranhas

00:21:48.940 approaches 100%.

00:21:50.460 So, well, so now having said that,

00:21:55.600 I would also say that I'm very sympathetic

00:22:00.520 to your notion that

00:22:02.220 there's something very important to accomplish here

00:22:08.780 in the next 10 or 15 years

00:22:11.240 on the Abrahamic side.

00:22:14.800 So you said that the notion of Judeo-Christian culture

00:22:19.040 is exclusionary,

00:22:20.180 and then you outlined a variety of problems with that.

00:22:22.740 And that's an extraordinarily complicated problem

00:22:28.120 because I do believe that there are affinities

00:22:31.520 between Christians and Jews and Muslims

00:22:34.580 that are very, very deep.

00:22:36.900 And they're particularly important right now

00:22:40.480 because Muslims, Jews, and Christians

00:22:43.200 have more in common

00:22:45.180 than any of the members of those three groups

00:22:48.860 have in common with this woke ideology

00:22:51.480 that's pervasively sweeping the planet

00:22:54.320 that poses an equal threat

00:22:56.820 to all three of those groups

00:22:58.600 and whatever civilization

00:22:59.860 might be founded on their

00:23:02.780 joint and separate contributions.

00:23:05.520 And the fact that Muslims, Jews, and Christians

00:23:08.120 are squabbling amongst themselves in the rubble

00:23:11.180 while the idiot woke ideology

00:23:13.120 rages madly out of control

00:23:15.020 is counterproductive to say the least.

00:23:19.800 And so, you know, on the religious front,

00:23:23.360 the Abrahamic religions

00:23:25.200 share the belief in the centrality of the book.

00:23:29.900 They share a fundamental monotheism.

00:23:33.160 And then after that,

00:23:36.080 well, then differences that are difficult to reconcile

00:23:38.900 start to emerge

00:23:39.940 and no one really knows how to deal with them.

00:23:41.960 So, I mean, obviously one of the problems

00:23:44.680 on the religious front

00:23:45.900 with regards to Jews, Christians, and Muslims

00:23:48.580 is conceptualization of the figure of Christ

00:23:51.920 and also of the figure of Muhammad.

00:23:54.400 And no one knows how to sort that mess out.

00:23:57.820 And what you get are dogmatic insistences

00:24:00.360 on both sides

00:24:01.440 with the Jews taking a completely different perspective.

00:24:05.680 And, you know, wars have been fought

00:24:07.980 for hundreds of years

00:24:09.040 or even thousands over exactly those issues.

00:24:11.360 So, I do believe there are important historical,

00:24:17.340 what would you say?

00:24:18.820 There's an important history that unites us

00:24:21.400 and there's an important body of conceptions

00:24:23.480 that unites us on the religious side

00:24:25.960 in the broad West.

00:24:29.540 But we're still in the early stages

00:24:32.600 of the kind of conversation

00:24:33.840 that would allow those remaining points of contention,

00:24:37.700 which are very severe,

00:24:39.140 to be ironed out.

00:24:40.440 But to your point,

00:24:44.400 what that at least implies in part

00:24:47.860 is that language that is predicated

00:24:50.240 on the assumption

00:24:51.040 that the central civilizing tendency

00:24:53.180 in the West is only Judeo-Christian,

00:24:56.940 well, you know,

00:24:57.780 that brings with it a host of potential problems

00:25:00.320 like the ones you outlined.

00:25:01.660 And then you talked about

00:25:03.500 the Netanyahu conversation

00:25:06.160 with regards to the Palestinians

00:25:07.740 and their erasure.

00:25:09.840 And that's extraordinarily complicated as well.

00:25:14.220 And maybe I'll make a case

00:25:16.640 for my viewpoint

00:25:19.440 or the viewpoint that I tentatively hold at the moment

00:25:22.920 and you can tell me what you think about it.

00:25:25.300 Sure, sure.

00:25:26.000 Okay, so clearly having the Palestinians

00:25:30.080 drawn centrally into the process

00:25:33.640 that's unfolding on the Abraham Accord side

00:25:35.920 is desirable.

00:25:37.700 Now, let's see if we can figure out

00:25:40.940 some of the impediments to that.

00:25:43.340 I mean, one impediment for me is that

00:25:45.380 it's very convenient for actors

00:25:48.140 outside of the immediate locale

00:25:50.180 of Palestine and Israel

00:25:51.800 to ensure that the conflict rages

00:25:56.160 untrammeled for as long as possible.

00:26:00.340 And it isn't obvious to me at all

00:26:02.120 that the Palestinians have been well served

00:26:04.660 by their own structures of governance.

00:26:07.140 And I think that's partly because

00:26:09.080 the tradition of democratic governance

00:26:13.240 is not well founded

00:26:15.420 in many places in the Middle East.

00:26:17.780 And because, as I said,

00:26:19.400 it's very convenient for bad external actors

00:26:23.780 to ensure that the conflict with Israel

00:26:26.960 rages unabated.

00:26:29.480 And then I would say

00:26:33.260 I'm also sympathetic to the Israeli claim.

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00:27:43.360 For a variety of reasons

00:27:48.440 and let me lay those out

00:27:51.740 and I don't know

00:27:52.380 how those can be pursued

00:27:53.600 without being

00:27:54.460 while also taking into account

00:27:57.580 the fact that

00:27:58.320 this is unfortunately done

00:28:00.220 not infrequently

00:28:01.720 at someone's expense.

00:28:04.580 I mean,

00:28:04.900 the founder of

00:28:06.040 Zionism

00:28:08.480 rightly observed

00:28:09.440 that there was

00:28:10.060 a dawning wave

00:28:11.060 of vicious anti-Semitism

00:28:12.460 in Europe

00:28:13.180 that was going to be

00:28:14.040 incredibly destructive

00:28:15.040 and that was definitely

00:28:16.600 the case.

00:28:17.980 And then

00:28:18.600 it was the case

00:28:20.080 that the West

00:28:20.960 in the guise of the UN

00:28:22.340 let's say

00:28:22.960 decided

00:28:24.080 that

00:28:25.580 the establishment

00:28:26.540 of a Jewish state

00:28:27.520 was going to be

00:28:28.880 all things considered

00:28:30.000 something like

00:28:30.800 a universal good

00:28:32.860 and

00:28:33.840 it's definitely the case

00:28:35.660 that the establishment

00:28:36.520 of that state

00:28:37.400 has been

00:28:38.340 incredibly problematic

00:28:39.660 but that one of the

00:28:41.040 consequences is

00:28:41.960 that there's a flourishing

00:28:43.120 nation in that area

00:28:44.720 now that is doing

00:28:46.080 quite well economically

00:28:47.340 and on the governance

00:28:48.180 side

00:28:48.700 and that has become

00:28:49.860 powerful enough

00:28:50.720 economically

00:28:51.360 and morally

00:28:53.180 I suppose

00:28:54.740 but at least

00:28:55.700 practically

00:28:56.360 to be regarded

00:28:58.100 as a worthy

00:28:59.820 ally

00:29:00.600 by the countries

00:29:02.440 that have signed

00:29:03.080 the Abraham Accords

00:29:04.220 and

00:29:05.220 what that has meant

00:29:07.160 is that

00:29:07.660 the Palestinian

00:29:08.720 situation

00:29:09.840 is still

00:29:10.860 unaddressed

00:29:11.560 and the catastrophes

00:29:12.940 that are associated

00:29:13.660 with that

00:29:14.240 still

00:29:14.740 playing themselves out

00:29:17.060 and

00:29:17.780 it isn't obvious

00:29:19.140 to me

00:29:19.660 it isn't obvious

00:29:21.340 to me at all

00:29:21.960 what can be done

00:29:22.640 about that.

00:29:23.540 Now your point

00:29:24.220 was well

00:29:24.820 one thing that could be

00:29:26.060 done is not

00:29:26.680 to exclude

00:29:27.360 the Palestinians

00:29:28.800 linguistically

00:29:30.540 or practically

00:29:31.440 and I would say

00:29:32.320 fair enough

00:29:32.980 but

00:29:33.320 I don't

00:29:34.460 I don't know

00:29:35.500 how we address

00:29:36.780 the bad actor

00:29:37.740 problem

00:29:38.220 which is partly

00:29:39.020 the fact

00:29:39.500 that it's pretty

00:29:40.040 damn convenient

00:29:40.940 for people

00:29:41.960 who are

00:29:42.400 anti-Israel

00:29:43.840 in the most

00:29:44.340 fundamental sense

00:29:45.340 to keep

00:29:46.160 the Palestinian

00:29:46.880 conflict raging

00:29:47.920 for their own

00:29:49.500 particular narrow

00:29:50.380 self-interest

00:29:51.180 and that's a

00:29:52.280 true impediment

00:29:53.060 to peace.

00:29:53.840 It was also

00:29:54.420 a true impediment

00:29:55.460 to peace

00:29:55.980 that the bloody

00:29:56.880 State Department

00:29:57.740 has insisted

00:29:58.600 for the last

00:29:59.240 70 years

00:30:00.060 that there's

00:30:00.900 no possibility

00:30:01.740 whatsoever

00:30:02.320 of moving

00:30:03.580 even incrementally

00:30:05.060 towards peace

00:30:05.720 in the Middle East

00:30:06.320 without a full

00:30:06.960 solution to the

00:30:07.640 Palestinian problem

00:30:08.600 which the people

00:30:10.300 who established

00:30:11.500 the Abraham Accord

00:30:12.480 demonstrated

00:30:13.060 in a very short

00:30:14.100 period of time

00:30:14.800 was a preposterous

00:30:16.320 claim.

00:30:17.580 So okay

00:30:18.740 so let's

00:30:19.340 let's go from there.

00:30:20.540 I would much

00:30:21.440 rather see

00:30:22.120 the Muslims

00:30:23.340 and the Jews

00:30:24.120 and the Christians

00:30:25.400 what would you say

00:30:27.080 arm and arm

00:30:27.700 together

00:30:28.220 on the monotheistic

00:30:29.600 front.

00:30:30.260 That'd be nice

00:30:31.060 but how the hell

00:30:32.200 we do that

00:30:32.920 that's

00:30:33.500 Yeah

00:30:33.780 well listen

00:30:35.020 you mentioned

00:30:36.820 you entered

00:30:37.240 this debate

00:30:37.700 from the Abraham

00:30:38.340 Accords onwards

00:30:39.040 so forgive me

00:30:40.260 if I assume that

00:30:41.100 but that's what

00:30:41.800 I gathered

00:30:42.240 if it's wrong

00:30:42.880 I can assure you

00:30:45.580 I've been living

00:30:46.060 this debate

00:30:46.500 for my entire life

00:30:47.340 I have been

00:30:49.420 to Jerusalem

00:30:50.580 and the West Bank

00:30:51.740 to Ramallah

00:30:52.220 and to Tel Aviv

00:30:54.780 and up and down

00:30:55.460 the country

00:30:55.860 to the Golan Heights

00:30:56.760 and down

00:30:57.220 into the south

00:30:58.080 I've been

00:30:59.160 on the Egyptian

00:30:59.620 side

00:31:00.100 of the border

00:31:01.340 with Gaza

00:31:02.620 I have been

00:31:04.640 right into

00:31:05.360 the various sites

00:31:06.860 there

00:31:07.180 I've prayed there

00:31:08.100 in the Masjid

00:31:08.840 Al-Aqsa

00:31:09.300 and the Qubba

00:31:10.160 Al-Sakhra

00:31:10.640 and one thing

00:31:11.760 I can assure you

00:31:12.420 with the last decade

00:31:13.500 of my work

00:31:14.320 on this front

00:31:15.380 is

00:31:16.240 I'm not really

00:31:17.560 interested

00:31:17.980 in the last thing

00:31:19.800 you mentioned there

00:31:20.400 which is presenting

00:31:21.120 obstacles to peace

00:31:22.500 and so I'm with you

00:31:24.360 on that

00:31:24.660 I think

00:31:25.080 there are vested

00:31:26.140 interests

00:31:26.620 that want

00:31:27.760 the conflict

00:31:28.800 to continue

00:31:29.520 the question

00:31:30.300 is Jordan

00:31:31.020 that it be

00:31:32.100 overly simplistic

00:31:32.880 to assume

00:31:33.660 that those vested

00:31:34.300 interests

00:31:34.780 are only on one

00:31:36.320 side of the debate

00:31:37.060 fair enough

00:31:39.140 yeah I come at this

00:31:40.760 as somebody who

00:31:41.700 again it's all open

00:31:43.400 you can look it up

00:31:44.580 I have

00:31:45.420 gone further

00:31:46.620 than

00:31:47.040 almost any Muslim

00:31:49.440 you will find

00:31:50.040 in the English language

00:31:51.180 on this conversation

00:31:52.040 and I refuse to go

00:31:54.040 any further

00:31:54.540 because

00:31:55.260 I find

00:31:57.220 the people

00:31:58.000 purporting themselves

00:31:59.140 to be partners

00:32:00.040 speaking the language

00:32:01.520 of alienation

00:32:03.080 demonization

00:32:03.780 and exclusion

00:32:04.840 so let's agree

00:32:06.540 on one thing

00:32:07.200 if it holds

00:32:08.660 as you said

00:32:09.340 that there is

00:32:09.980 more in common

00:32:10.940 than there's different

00:32:11.680 which I believe

00:32:12.820 is self-evident

00:32:13.500 then

00:32:15.060 and it then

00:32:16.600 holds by definition

00:32:17.580 that if we were

00:32:18.760 to be able

00:32:19.460 to somehow

00:32:20.300 rally around

00:32:21.400 the fact

00:32:22.260 that we have

00:32:22.740 more in common

00:32:23.280 than what's different

00:32:24.480 and I think

00:32:25.600 that's also

00:32:26.080 self-evident

00:32:26.680 that we'd have

00:32:27.580 then

00:32:27.880 we would achieve

00:32:29.400 a great prize

00:32:30.260 for peace

00:32:31.020 on planet Earth

00:32:32.540 if we were able

00:32:33.560 to do that

00:32:34.140 so by definition

00:32:35.720 I don't need an answer

00:32:36.740 to the question

00:32:37.360 how can we do that

00:32:38.520 to say to you

00:32:39.440 with the full confidence

00:32:40.380 of somebody

00:32:40.940 whose heart

00:32:41.480 is where your heart is

00:32:42.840 that the way to do that

00:32:44.060 isn't to use

00:32:44.640 exclusionary language

00:32:45.740 and I think

00:32:48.540 that needs to be

00:32:49.080 the starting point

00:32:49.840 because you know

00:32:51.160 and I know

00:32:51.700 how it feels

00:32:52.520 to be excluded

00:32:53.160 you've been cancelled

00:32:54.040 your voice

00:32:55.200 has been taken

00:32:55.920 by people

00:32:56.780 that have wanted

00:32:57.300 to silence you

00:32:58.260 and this Muslim

00:33:00.060 who's been to prison

00:33:01.000 for a belief

00:33:03.320 in Islam

00:33:03.780 that I now

00:33:04.260 no longer

00:33:04.660 subscribe to

00:33:05.500 but we're all

00:33:06.380 products to a certain

00:33:07.220 extent of our

00:33:07.800 environment and

00:33:08.380 experiences

00:33:08.940 I was one of the

00:33:10.920 first national

00:33:11.440 broadcasters in Britain

00:33:12.460 to reach out to you

00:33:13.200 and say your voice

00:33:13.880 was taken away

00:33:14.680 my belief

00:33:16.400 in infinite love

00:33:17.560 demands that your

00:33:18.440 voice is now heard

00:33:19.320 on a point of principle

00:33:20.400 regardless of whether

00:33:22.000 I agree with you or not

00:33:22.920 now that's the

00:33:24.500 philosophy I approach

00:33:25.380 this conversation with

00:33:26.360 which is why

00:33:27.000 when anti-semitism

00:33:29.320 was rising in this

00:33:30.240 country

00:33:30.580 again you will find

00:33:31.780 that my voice

00:33:32.440 was the one

00:33:32.980 despite how difficult

00:33:34.280 it was considering

00:33:35.200 my background

00:33:35.900 that was the voice

00:33:37.180 in Britain

00:33:37.600 that was raised

00:33:38.360 probably among

00:33:39.300 the loudest

00:33:39.940 to say

00:33:40.700 I have a covenant

00:33:41.840 with my Jewish

00:33:43.360 cousins

00:33:44.060 that as far as

00:33:45.840 we're concerned

00:33:46.500 they must feel

00:33:47.600 that their rights

00:33:48.420 of life and property

00:33:49.240 and family

00:33:50.180 and all of that

00:33:50.760 is kept sacred

00:33:51.560 and so

00:33:52.880 the point I'm making

00:33:54.240 is that

00:33:54.960 if it holds

00:33:55.720 as I believe it does

00:33:56.600 and you've stated it

00:33:57.380 yourself

00:33:57.660 that we have

00:33:58.140 more in common

00:33:58.720 than is different

00:33:59.420 and if our only problem

00:34:01.380 is how do we arrive

00:34:02.600 at a common basis

00:34:05.220 for that sharing

00:34:06.420 of what we have

00:34:07.020 in common

00:34:07.340 and celebrating it

00:34:08.280 then it's a no-brainer

00:34:09.880 that the language

00:34:10.760 we're using

00:34:11.240 in the meanwhile

00:34:11.800 while we're trying

00:34:12.880 to work out

00:34:13.460 how to arrive there

00:34:14.360 will be language

00:34:15.380 that brings people

00:34:16.120 closer

00:34:16.560 not pushes people

00:34:17.800 further apart

00:34:18.460 and that would be

00:34:19.240 what I'd say

00:34:19.680 to Kanye West

00:34:20.480 by the way

00:34:21.200 that is what actually

00:34:21.860 I have said

00:34:22.480 to people that speak

00:34:23.560 like Kanye West

00:34:24.320 who have started

00:34:25.140 encouraging me

00:34:25.820 to speak like that

00:34:26.660 but likewise

00:34:27.620 I'd expect people

00:34:28.500 like Netanyahu

00:34:29.280 to abide by

00:34:30.580 the very thing

00:34:31.360 that he says

00:34:32.180 he fears arising

00:34:33.260 from other people

00:34:34.080 and that is people

00:34:34.980 denying his identity

00:34:36.740 his country's identity

00:34:38.260 and their own trauma

00:34:39.420 in their own history

00:34:40.340 I have visited

00:34:41.340 Yad Vashem

00:34:42.000 I have been many times

00:34:44.480 with my brethren

00:34:46.180 in the Jewish community

00:34:47.180 to Holocaust museums

00:34:48.540 and I have cried

00:34:49.980 because it's human suffering

00:34:51.820 just like I cry

00:34:53.080 in the mosque

00:34:53.640 when I'm asking

00:34:54.560 Allah

00:34:55.320 to elevate suffering

00:34:56.720 in Turkey

00:34:57.180 in Syria right now

00:34:58.140 with the thousands

00:34:58.980 and thousands

00:34:59.500 who have died

00:35:00.000 in the earthquake

00:35:00.560 it's human suffering

00:35:01.500 and so if it holds

00:35:03.540 that that's the intention

00:35:04.720 that we have

00:35:05.420 our language

00:35:06.240 will not divide

00:35:07.440 it will only try

00:35:08.660 and bring people

00:35:09.560 closer together

00:35:10.200 I can't sit here

00:35:11.160 and claim to you

00:35:11.860 I have the answer

00:35:12.820 to peace in the Middle East

00:35:14.200 that would also be

00:35:15.340 incredibly arrogant

00:35:16.120 what I can say to you

00:35:17.640 is that that answer

00:35:18.980 whenever and however

00:35:19.760 it's arrived at

00:35:20.580 one day I believe

00:35:21.280 it will be arrived at

00:35:22.280 because you know

00:35:24.120 at the end of the day

00:35:24.880 we don't want to start

00:35:25.900 engaging in self-fulfilling prophecies

00:35:27.560 if we believe peace

00:35:29.040 is never possible

00:35:29.680 we will be in perpetual war

00:35:31.220 that's how language works

00:35:32.580 we're casting spells

00:35:33.820 so if I as I am

00:35:35.600 I believe that peace

00:35:36.460 is possible

00:35:36.900 because I believe

00:35:37.560 in the human condition

00:35:38.380 enough to sacrifice

00:35:39.780 for that

00:35:40.380 in terms of my own

00:35:41.640 background

00:35:42.580 and where I'm coming from

00:35:43.660 and to have people

00:35:45.480 attack me

00:35:46.500 for saying peace

00:35:47.260 is possible

00:35:47.760 then what I expect

00:35:49.240 is my interlocutor

00:35:50.200 will adhere

00:35:51.240 to the same

00:35:51.940 language

00:35:53.180 that reflects

00:35:53.760 their intention

00:35:54.420 I believe you're

00:35:55.640 a smart man

00:35:56.140 I believe you're

00:35:56.620 understanding

00:35:57.040 what I'm saying

00:35:57.660 but I believe

00:35:58.480 that there are

00:35:58.900 vested interests

00:35:59.460 on both sides

00:36:00.180 of this war

00:36:00.760 because there are

00:36:01.620 people that believe

00:36:02.280 in the Hegelian dialect

00:36:03.160 they've subscribed

00:36:04.160 to dialectical materialism

00:36:05.580 what they want

00:36:06.540 is conflict

00:36:07.220 to create change

00:36:08.220 we know

00:36:08.920 Klaus Schwab

00:36:09.520 subscribes to that

00:36:10.260 he calls it

00:36:10.900 build back better

00:36:11.680 after a great reset

00:36:12.700 and the way

00:36:13.520 that they bring change

00:36:14.620 is by encouraging

00:36:15.720 division

00:36:16.460 this dialectical materialism

00:36:18.400 was created

00:36:19.260 by materialists

00:36:20.300 and they understand

00:36:21.440 that if they want

00:36:22.980 to advance

00:36:24.380 their interests

00:36:25.060 they need to pick

00:36:25.740 groups against each other

00:36:26.840 the British Empire

00:36:27.580 did it in the name

00:36:28.280 of divide and conquer

00:36:29.120 but actually

00:36:30.260 it's theoretical

00:36:30.880 underpinning

00:36:31.440 as you're aware

00:36:32.020 of Jordan

00:36:32.440 is the Hegelian dialect

00:36:34.520 upon which was built

00:36:35.640 the communist idea

00:36:36.640 of dialectical materialism

00:36:37.980 and it's this belief

00:36:39.420 that only conflict

00:36:40.920 advances civilization

00:36:42.380 now that conflict

00:36:43.860 can come in many forms

00:36:45.360 at this month's

00:36:47.080 One World Government Summit

00:36:48.580 which was also

00:36:50.120 happened to be

00:36:50.960 I believe hosted

00:36:52.040 in one of the countries

00:36:53.200 that is subscribed

00:36:54.280 to the Abraham Accords

00:36:55.400 the speakers

00:36:59.000 Klaus Schwab

00:37:00.080 and the usual suspects

00:37:01.040 told us

00:37:02.360 that they believe

00:37:03.280 shocks to planet Earth

00:37:05.920 are what are required

00:37:07.200 to bring about

00:37:08.260 the great reset

00:37:10.020 that they are pursuing

00:37:11.120 those shocks

00:37:11.920 that they're talking about

00:37:13.240 whether it's a cyber blackout

00:37:14.720 whether it's

00:37:15.860 the COVID mandate period

00:37:17.280 and the shocks

00:37:17.800 being depriving us

00:37:18.660 of our civil liberties

00:37:19.520 those shocks

00:37:20.960 in the form of

00:37:21.640 net zero carbon targets

00:37:23.120 where they want to

00:37:24.020 enslave us

00:37:25.280 within 15 minute zone cities

00:37:26.880 as if we're serfs

00:37:28.220 those shocks

00:37:29.440 are designed

00:37:30.560 to bring about

00:37:31.500 conflict and riots

00:37:32.960 so that they can create change

00:37:34.880 through this

00:37:35.640 dialectical materialism

00:37:36.820 now there's people

00:37:37.900 that subscribe

00:37:38.440 to that methodology

00:37:40.360 on the Israeli side

00:37:41.680 of the debate

00:37:42.120 which is hence

00:37:43.100 Pfizer being a major culprit

00:37:44.580 with the Israeli government

00:37:45.880 in all of this

00:37:47.040 the Israeli government

00:37:47.800 today has just been released

00:37:49.420 some documents

00:37:50.220 name the three ingredients

00:37:51.280 in those COVID mandates

00:37:52.420 but there are also people

00:37:53.700 of course

00:37:54.160 on all sides

00:37:55.680 of the debate

00:37:56.200 not just the Israeli side

00:37:57.380 in Canada

00:37:58.520 where you're from

00:37:59.340 just today

00:38:00.480 or yesterday

00:38:01.580 Christia Freeland

00:38:02.540 the Deputy PM

00:38:05.040 has announced the result

00:38:06.360 of the emergency inquiry

00:38:08.820 and stated that

00:38:10.240 they were right

00:38:10.980 to cut everyone's money off

00:38:12.400 now the thing is Jordan

00:38:13.460 they're not

00:38:13.880 yeah

00:38:14.500 they're not stupid people

00:38:15.760 they know this angers people

00:38:17.280 they know there's a risk

00:38:18.240 of riots

00:38:18.740 they know there's a risk

00:38:19.560 of terrorism

00:38:20.120 but that's why

00:38:21.060 they're doing it

00:38:21.840 because if you can

00:38:22.740 if you can bring about

00:38:23.980 the conditions

00:38:24.580 in which people can't eat

00:38:25.840 because they can't buy food

00:38:27.440 and as was published

00:38:29.580 in the Times newspaper

00:38:30.580 of London today

00:38:31.600 they're now suggesting

00:38:33.240 rationing

00:38:34.320 rationing

00:38:35.300 in Britain

00:38:36.000 to bring about

00:38:37.000 the carbon targets

00:38:38.440 the agenda

00:38:38.960 that doesn't surprise me

00:38:40.500 in the least

00:38:41.220 I watched yesterday

00:38:42.960 someone at the WF

00:38:44.060 talk about demand management

00:38:45.700 on the power provision side

00:38:47.540 so their bloody excuse is

00:38:49.180 well

00:38:49.420 we can't provide you

00:38:50.780 with reliable power anymore

00:38:52.080 so we want centralized control

00:38:53.840 over your appliances

00:38:54.860 so we can shut down

00:38:56.140 your use of energy

00:38:57.020 when it becomes inconvenient

00:38:58.200 for the system

00:38:59.060 now we've got to understand

00:39:00.720 why they're doing this

00:39:01.420 Jordan though

00:39:01.800 they're doing it

00:39:02.360 so that

00:39:02.740 the conflict increases

00:39:04.000 on both sides

00:39:04.500 that's why you're noticing

00:39:05.680 polarization go up everywhere

00:39:07.280 not just on the Israeli side

00:39:09.020 of the debate

00:39:09.480 on the terrorism

00:39:10.460 everywhere

00:39:11.160 there's polarization

00:39:12.020 because that's their method

00:39:13.380 for change

00:39:14.100 and so we've got to be careful

00:39:15.720 we're not being useful patsies

00:39:17.160 for dialectical materialism

00:39:18.760 by using language

00:39:19.600 that continues the divide

00:39:21.220 increases the divide

00:39:22.300 rather than bring people together

00:39:23.880 okay

00:39:25.000 so

00:39:25.400 the first thing I would say

00:39:27.020 about all that

00:39:27.740 is that

00:39:28.240 I just re-watched

00:39:31.000 Eisenhower's speech

00:39:32.260 on the military

00:39:33.040 industrial complex

00:39:34.280 his 1961 speech

00:39:35.780 with my wife this week

00:39:36.980 because I was curious

00:39:38.920 once again

00:39:39.620 what had motivated

00:39:40.940 someone who

00:39:41.720 was so well versed

00:39:43.460 in the machinations

00:39:44.400 of the behind the scenes

00:39:45.780 military industrial enterprise

00:39:47.420 to put forward

00:39:48.720 that warning

00:39:49.400 60 years ago

00:39:50.440 and it's certainly

00:39:51.500 the case

00:39:52.740 that that situation

00:39:53.800 hasn't improved

00:39:54.660 and it's

00:39:56.400 it is

00:39:56.960 definitely the case

00:39:58.540 that as you point out

00:39:59.740 there are vested interests

00:40:02.180 promoting conflict

00:40:04.640 everywhere

00:40:05.360 on both sides

00:40:06.560 of every conflict

00:40:07.360 I mean we're certainly

00:40:08.120 seeing that play out

00:40:09.360 on the Russia-Ukraine front

00:40:10.520 at the moment

00:40:11.080 and that this is a

00:40:11.880 who are they

00:40:12.500 who are they

00:40:14.160 that's the question

00:40:14.720 okay well okay

00:40:15.520 now

00:40:15.740 I think it's the wrong question

00:40:17.900 Majid

00:40:18.360 and here's why I think that

00:40:19.760 so

00:40:20.540 well

00:40:21.700 there's this idea

00:40:22.960 that is deeply rooted

00:40:24.800 in

00:40:25.240 in

00:40:26.040 in the

00:40:27.620 in Christian traditional thought

00:40:29.420 of the idea

00:40:30.620 of principalities

00:40:31.780 and a principality

00:40:33.660 I'm going to think about it

00:40:35.300 psychologically

00:40:35.880 instead of

00:40:37.360 religiously

00:40:38.380 sure

00:40:39.220 so

00:40:39.540 what we're in at the moment

00:40:41.240 is a war of

00:40:42.320 of idea

00:40:43.260 networks

00:40:44.340 and

00:40:45.700 an idea network

00:40:47.380 has

00:40:48.500 an animating

00:40:49.820 essence

00:40:50.240 so

00:40:51.080 you

00:40:51.480 you

00:40:51.860 you see that reflected

00:40:53.260 in the use of terms

00:40:54.700 such as zeitgeist

00:40:55.860 you know

00:40:56.160 the spirit of the times

00:40:57.360 and you see that

00:40:58.700 the animating

00:41:00.700 nature

00:41:02.840 of a set

00:41:04.000 of ideas

00:41:04.760 when you look at

00:41:05.920 photographs

00:41:06.420 from different decades

00:41:07.720 you see how

00:41:08.560 styles move

00:41:10.100 and shift

00:41:10.680 everybody across

00:41:11.620 the decades

00:41:12.200 and that becomes

00:41:12.860 very evident

00:41:13.440 as you move away

00:41:14.460 from the decades

00:41:15.260 I mean

00:41:15.500 people in the 60s

00:41:16.860 didn't think

00:41:17.380 they looked like

00:41:18.120 people in the 60s

00:41:19.220 but you could sure

00:41:19.960 tell now

00:41:20.540 that they did

00:41:21.260 and

00:41:22.240 that's partly

00:41:23.240 because

00:41:23.660 we're all

00:41:24.620 imitating each other

00:41:25.640 all the time

00:41:26.400 and we're all

00:41:27.200 striving for consensus

00:41:28.420 and we're all

00:41:29.480 possessed by

00:41:30.600 webs of ideas

00:41:32.100 that happen to be

00:41:33.020 au courant

00:41:33.660 during the time

00:41:34.460 and place

00:41:34.920 that we happen

00:41:35.500 to be born

00:41:36.120 and we have

00:41:37.480 a rat's nest

00:41:38.800 of

00:41:39.260 post-modern

00:41:40.460 slash

00:41:41.060 neo-Marxist

00:41:42.340 ideas

00:41:42.900 operating behind

00:41:44.220 the scenes

00:41:44.740 at the moment

00:41:45.400 that is rooted in

00:41:47.120 it's rooted in

00:41:48.240 a corrupt

00:41:48.740 enlightenment

00:41:49.420 and it's rooted

00:41:51.440 beyond that

00:41:52.620 in an envious

00:41:54.100 spirit of Cain

00:41:56.600 like vengefulness

00:41:58.320 that's ancient

00:41:59.720 and that system

00:42:01.700 of ideas

00:42:02.400 tends to act

00:42:04.000 like a conspiracy

00:42:05.080 and so imagine

00:42:06.520 that there's a

00:42:08.020 so with one of my

00:42:09.480 graduate students

00:42:10.260 just before I got

00:42:11.140 cancelled as a

00:42:11.900 professor

00:42:12.300 we undertook

00:42:14.020 a formal

00:42:16.200 statistical

00:42:17.240 evaluation

00:42:18.040 of the universe

00:42:19.860 of politically

00:42:20.600 correct ideas

00:42:21.740 okay so here

00:42:23.180 were the questions

00:42:23.800 we were trying

00:42:24.380 to answer

00:42:24.880 the first question

00:42:26.420 was

00:42:26.860 was there a

00:42:28.580 coherent set

00:42:29.720 of ideas

00:42:30.600 that could be

00:42:31.580 identified as

00:42:32.940 politically correct

00:42:33.880 and the way

00:42:35.040 you assess that

00:42:35.900 is you gather

00:42:36.540 a tremendous

00:42:37.540 number of

00:42:38.540 questions about

00:42:39.900 political opinion

00:42:40.920 as diverse a

00:42:42.400 range as you

00:42:43.000 can manage

00:42:43.600 gather them

00:42:44.580 everywhere

00:42:45.040 and then you

00:42:45.980 give those to

00:42:46.740 thousands of

00:42:47.380 thousands of

00:42:47.940 people and

00:42:48.500 find out their

00:42:49.200 opinions

00:42:49.700 and then you

00:42:51.220 conduct a

00:42:51.800 statistical analysis

00:42:52.860 and you see

00:42:53.840 if people answer

00:42:55.940 question A

00:42:57.140 in a particular

00:42:58.140 direction

00:42:58.680 what other

00:42:59.440 questions are

00:43:00.360 they likely to

00:43:01.140 answer in the

00:43:02.000 same direction

00:43:02.840 and are there

00:43:05.320 correlations

00:43:06.220 between those

00:43:07.900 are there

00:43:08.620 does that

00:43:09.340 constitute a

00:43:10.040 correlation pattern

00:43:10.900 across many

00:43:11.640 many people

00:43:12.280 so the question

00:43:13.240 is what

00:43:14.140 ideas hang

00:43:15.520 together as

00:43:16.500 a set

00:43:17.000 and we found

00:43:18.740 there were two

00:43:19.420 domains of ideas

00:43:21.140 that hung together

00:43:21.980 as sets

00:43:22.840 on the clearly

00:43:24.200 politically correct

00:43:25.060 side and one

00:43:25.780 was a kind of

00:43:26.620 inclusive

00:43:27.900 compassionate

00:43:29.560 liberalism

00:43:30.440 and the other

00:43:31.340 was something

00:43:31.900 more like an

00:43:32.820 authoritarian

00:43:33.420 political correctness

00:43:35.760 so imagine

00:43:36.560 you took the

00:43:37.180 liberal

00:43:37.480 compassion

00:43:38.160 inclusive

00:43:39.100 domain of

00:43:40.260 ideas

00:43:40.620 and you

00:43:41.200 allied that

00:43:42.200 with willingness

00:43:42.860 to use

00:43:43.420 compulsion

00:43:43.980 and force

00:43:44.760 okay so

00:43:46.740 that set

00:43:47.880 of ideas

00:43:48.300 clearly two

00:43:49.160 of them

00:43:49.460 hung together

00:43:50.080 and those

00:43:50.760 two sets

00:43:51.440 were correlated

00:43:52.120 so the

00:43:53.000 notion that

00:43:53.740 there is a

00:43:54.340 web of

00:43:54.820 ideas

00:43:55.300 that are

00:43:56.380 part of

00:43:56.760 this

00:43:56.960 dialectical

00:43:57.680 materialism

00:43:58.400 that you

00:43:58.720 described

00:43:59.140 or that

00:43:59.460 would be

00:43:59.700 a subset

00:44:00.140 of it

00:44:00.420 that's

00:44:01.100 clearly

00:44:01.540 the case

00:44:02.320 now we

00:44:03.100 also looked

00:44:03.780 at what

00:44:04.180 predicted

00:44:04.760 that

00:44:05.120 so let's

00:44:06.040 say there

00:44:06.420 is that

00:44:06.860 system

00:44:07.240 of ideas

00:44:07.840 who's

00:44:08.600 most likely

00:44:09.280 to be

00:44:09.660 possessed

00:44:10.200 by it

00:44:10.900 and the

00:44:12.540 answer

00:44:12.880 was

00:44:13.300 well the

00:44:14.540 first

00:44:14.820 the biggest

00:44:15.600 predictor

00:44:16.060 was low

00:44:16.520 verbal

00:44:16.860 intelligence

00:44:17.580 and it's

00:44:19.220 partly because

00:44:19.920 at the

00:44:20.540 core of

00:44:21.000 that idea

00:44:21.700 is set

00:44:22.720 is a

00:44:23.060 very simple

00:44:23.780 proposition

00:44:24.620 which is

00:44:25.360 that you

00:44:25.720 can understand

00:44:26.460 all of

00:44:27.080 human

00:44:27.420 social

00:44:27.960 and

00:44:28.560 psychological

00:44:29.100 dynamics

00:44:29.900 merely by

00:44:30.900 referring to

00:44:31.500 the principle

00:44:32.000 of power

00:44:32.540 and oppression

00:44:33.180 and so

00:44:34.700 it's a

00:44:35.360 radical

00:44:35.760 simplification

00:44:36.720 and that

00:44:37.220 turns out

00:44:37.720 to be

00:44:37.980 attractive

00:44:38.380 to people

00:44:38.880 who aren't

00:44:39.320 very verbally

00:44:40.100 sophisticated

00:44:40.860 okay the

00:44:41.920 next predictor

00:44:42.740 was being

00:44:43.640 female

00:44:44.180 the next

00:44:45.240 predictors

00:44:45.840 were having

00:44:47.100 a feminine

00:44:47.620 temperament

00:44:48.320 and the

00:44:48.940 final major

00:44:49.640 predictor

00:44:50.140 was having

00:44:50.740 ever taken

00:44:51.540 a course

00:44:52.100 that was

00:44:52.520 overtly

00:44:53.160 propagandistic

00:44:54.240 on the

00:44:54.880 politically

00:44:55.180 correct

00:44:55.620 side

00:44:56.100 and so

00:44:57.360 that was

00:44:58.360 all very

00:44:58.800 worrisome

00:44:59.280 as you

00:44:59.640 might

00:44:59.920 imagine

00:45:01.260 but here's

00:45:02.600 the reason

00:45:02.960 I'm telling

00:45:03.420 you all

00:45:03.800 this

00:45:04.040 is that

00:45:04.400 we're

00:45:06.020 seeing

00:45:06.400 a situation

00:45:07.140 where

00:45:07.660 it looks

00:45:08.620 like there

00:45:09.080 are

00:45:09.320 conspiracies

00:45:10.080 at work

00:45:10.740 and sometimes

00:45:11.860 there are

00:45:12.520 but what's

00:45:13.260 actually

00:45:13.640 happening

00:45:14.100 is that

00:45:14.540 people are

00:45:15.200 possessed

00:45:15.680 to a

00:45:16.140 greater

00:45:16.460 or lesser

00:45:17.100 degree

00:45:17.620 by this

00:45:18.200 web of

00:45:18.640 ideas

00:45:19.040 they reflect

00:45:19.720 that in

00:45:20.200 their own

00:45:20.700 perception

00:45:21.460 and action

00:45:22.180 as individuals

00:45:23.960 but then when

00:45:25.140 they get

00:45:25.460 together as

00:45:26.100 groups

00:45:26.620 like imagine

00:45:27.500 that a given

00:45:28.020 person is

00:45:28.660 25%

00:45:29.840 possessed

00:45:30.380 by the

00:45:30.860 politically

00:45:31.180 correct

00:45:31.660 web

00:45:31.940 of

00:45:32.100 ideas

00:45:32.560 but then

00:45:33.860 you get

00:45:34.120 a hundred

00:45:34.480 people like

00:45:35.100 that in

00:45:35.440 a room

00:45:35.880 let's say

00:45:36.900 at Davos

00:45:37.800 and then

00:45:38.700 you have

00:45:39.040 the whole

00:45:39.440 web of

00:45:39.900 ideas

00:45:40.280 and it

00:45:40.700 has an

00:45:41.200 animating

00:45:41.800 ethos

00:45:42.360 like it

00:45:42.760 looks at

00:45:43.900 the world

00:45:44.220 in a

00:45:44.520 certain way

00:45:44.980 and is

00:45:45.280 aiming at

00:45:45.800 certain

00:45:46.120 ends

00:45:46.580 and then

00:45:47.220 that entire

00:45:47.880 system

00:45:48.420 of ideas

00:45:49.060 works to

00:45:50.640 promote

00:45:51.060 that

00:45:51.500 and it

00:45:52.460 can do

00:45:52.800 that

00:45:53.000 and writes

00:45:53.420 books

00:45:53.660 promoting

00:45:54.120 it

00:45:54.420 and writes

00:45:55.160 books

00:45:55.440 promoting

00:45:55.880 it

00:45:56.180 and speeches

00:45:57.060 promoting

00:45:57.500 it

00:45:57.740 yeah

00:45:58.000 absolutely

00:45:59.140 well and

00:45:59.800 it also

00:46:00.680 means that

00:46:01.220 it can

00:46:01.520 operate

00:46:01.920 in a

00:46:02.240 distributed

00:46:02.660 manner

00:46:03.160 because

00:46:03.520 to the

00:46:03.960 degree

00:46:04.200 that any

00:46:04.680 given

00:46:05.000 person

00:46:05.480 is

00:46:05.960 possessed

00:46:06.620 by some

00:46:07.580 fraction

00:46:08.220 of those

00:46:08.760 ideas

00:46:09.220 they'll go

00:46:10.080 off into

00:46:10.560 their own

00:46:10.980 domain

00:46:11.440 and agitate

00:46:13.140 on behalf

00:46:14.100 of the

00:46:14.500 idea system

00:46:15.280 and that's

00:46:15.680 a principality

00:46:16.420 and that

00:46:17.600 will act

00:46:18.200 to further

00:46:18.780 the entire

00:46:19.600 catastrophe

00:46:21.660 and really

00:46:22.780 the entire

00:46:23.800 idea system

00:46:24.700 in its

00:46:25.400 most fundamental

00:46:26.780 element

00:46:27.520 is a

00:46:28.380 it's an

00:46:29.060 idol

00:46:29.340 it's a false

00:46:30.040 idol

00:46:30.360 it's a

00:46:30.800 false

00:46:31.100 religion

00:46:31.620 so

00:46:32.420 can I say

00:46:33.840 I agree

00:46:34.280 with everything

00:46:34.660 you've just

00:46:35.160 described

00:46:35.580 I think

00:46:36.540 it's a

00:46:36.880 beautiful way

00:46:37.600 of describing

00:46:38.580 what I was

00:46:39.960 alluding to

00:46:40.660 I don't think

00:46:41.640 there's one

00:46:42.120 mastermind

00:46:42.680 stroking a

00:46:43.300 cat

00:46:43.560 sitting behind

00:46:44.920 a bit like

00:46:45.460 Danger Mouse

00:46:46.500 which was a

00:46:47.440 very famous

00:46:48.000 British cartoon

00:46:48.680 that I used

00:46:49.160 to watch

00:46:49.460 as a child

00:46:50.000 and it had

00:46:50.820 this character

00:46:51.320 called Baron

00:46:51.920 Greenback

00:46:52.500 and he used

00:46:53.180 to stroke

00:46:53.600 the white

00:46:53.980 cat

00:46:54.280 and laugh

00:46:55.740 and cackle

00:46:56.220 as Danger

00:46:56.660 Mouse

00:46:56.900 and Penfold

00:46:57.560 his sidekick

00:46:58.380 bespectacled

00:46:59.960 sidekick

00:47:00.440 called Penfold

00:47:01.140 who bless him

00:47:03.200 happened to be

00:47:03.680 quite short

00:47:04.280 and balding

00:47:04.740 with spectacles

00:47:06.740 I think the

00:47:07.140 whole point

00:47:07.520 was that

00:47:07.920 they want to

00:47:08.680 outshine

00:47:09.160 Danger Mouse

00:47:09.720 and Danger

00:47:10.680 Mouse's

00:47:11.020 presence

00:47:11.340 but I don't

00:47:11.960 think there's

00:47:12.340 some Baron

00:47:12.780 Greenback

00:47:13.220 figure

00:47:13.580 stroking a

00:47:14.580 cat

00:47:14.820 because I've

00:47:15.860 met enough

00:47:16.900 of the

00:47:17.220 front line

00:47:18.040 candidates

00:47:18.560 for those

00:47:18.980 who fancy

00:47:19.880 themselves

00:47:20.340 as Baron

00:47:20.860 Greenback

00:47:21.340 figures

00:47:21.640 and I don't

00:47:22.160 respect their

00:47:22.980 abilities

00:47:23.820 to pull

00:47:24.280 off such

00:47:24.660 a feat

00:47:25.020 having looked

00:47:26.120 at them

00:47:26.380 in the eyes

00:47:26.780 and shaking

00:47:27.100 their hands

00:47:27.220 Well that's

00:47:27.640 the other

00:47:27.900 well

00:47:28.300 yes exactly

00:47:30.220 that's the

00:47:30.680 other problem

00:47:31.140 with conspiratorial

00:47:32.280 theories

00:47:32.660 is that

00:47:33.080 Yeah so I agree

00:47:34.100 with your

00:47:34.400 description of it

00:47:35.060 where I would

00:47:36.420 perhaps push

00:47:37.440 you a bit

00:47:37.840 to go

00:47:38.220 a bit more

00:47:39.320 into this

00:47:40.200 description

00:47:40.660 perhaps upper

00:47:41.720 layer

00:47:42.040 if I may

00:47:42.820 Jordan

00:47:43.140 is to say

00:47:44.080 that it

00:47:44.380 struck me

00:47:45.400 as

00:47:46.460 as describing

00:47:49.760 the reality

00:47:50.560 from

00:47:51.360 one end

00:47:53.900 of a

00:47:54.300 dualist

00:47:54.720 perspective

00:47:55.240 and

00:47:56.920 I need

00:47:57.720 to elaborate

00:47:58.140 that

00:47:58.440 I need

00:47:58.640 to unpack

00:47:59.020 that

00:47:59.400 to really

00:48:00.180 explain

00:48:00.560 what I

00:48:00.840 mean

00:48:01.080 that

00:48:02.560 happens

00:48:02.940 what you

00:48:03.220 described

00:48:03.500 the reason

00:48:03.900 people engaging

00:48:04.600 in dialectical

00:48:05.200 materialism

00:48:05.740 are seeking

00:48:06.160 to do

00:48:06.540 this

00:48:06.840 and

00:48:07.940 utilize

00:48:08.800 or

00:48:09.020 weaponize

00:48:09.980 political

00:48:10.480 ideas

00:48:10.920 for the

00:48:11.260 purposes

00:48:11.600 of bringing

00:48:12.060 change

00:48:12.620 to exploit

00:48:14.000 conflict

00:48:14.620 for a

00:48:15.780 direction

00:48:16.300 of travel

00:48:17.000 which is

00:48:17.420 what

00:48:17.720 dialectical

00:48:18.560 materialism

00:48:19.140 essentially

00:48:19.480 boils down

00:48:19.980 to

00:48:20.180 the

00:48:20.520 exploitation

00:48:20.920 of conflict

00:48:21.580 for a

00:48:21.980 direction

00:48:22.440 of travel

00:48:22.960 they would

00:48:24.380 call that

00:48:24.720 direction

00:48:25.120 progressive

00:48:25.660 the reason

00:48:27.660 they're doing

00:48:28.140 that is

00:48:28.560 because

00:48:29.000 they are

00:48:29.460 very upset

00:48:30.840 with the

00:48:31.220 status quo

00:48:31.800 and they

00:48:33.020 believe

00:48:33.500 that the

00:48:34.180 status quo

00:48:34.820 has not only

00:48:36.020 failed us

00:48:36.740 but is

00:48:37.960 actively

00:48:38.680 harming us

00:48:39.940 now

00:48:41.080 the problem

00:48:41.640 I have

00:48:42.160 with what

00:48:42.500 you said

00:48:42.820 isn't what

00:48:43.220 you said

00:48:43.640 again

00:48:44.280 I emphasize

00:48:44.880 I agree

00:48:45.280 with everything

00:48:45.840 you said

00:48:46.200 I just

00:48:46.600 believe

00:48:46.820 you described

00:48:47.400 half the

00:48:48.320 picture

00:48:48.660 the other

00:48:49.780 half of

00:48:50.240 the picture

00:48:50.660 is everything

00:48:51.460 you said

00:48:51.900 is also

00:48:52.240 being done

00:48:52.860 by those

00:48:53.660 to whom

00:48:54.080 it's being

00:48:54.540 done

00:48:54.840 to

00:48:55.140 in other

00:48:56.980 words

00:48:57.300 those engaging

00:48:58.560 in woke

00:49:00.960 political

00:49:01.460 activism

00:49:02.000 cancelling

00:49:03.160 they're reacting

00:49:04.680 to the way

00:49:06.120 in which

00:49:06.560 the machine

00:49:07.460 the state

00:49:08.980 has such a

00:49:10.440 power hegemony

00:49:11.060 over them

00:49:11.660 that it also

00:49:12.820 by the way

00:49:13.340 believes that

00:49:13.900 the ends

00:49:14.220 justify the

00:49:14.880 means

00:49:15.080 let's not

00:49:15.560 pretend

00:49:15.960 that when

00:49:16.720 the state

00:49:17.100 in Canada

00:49:17.660 shuts off

00:49:18.500 people's

00:49:18.940 money

00:49:19.220 that it

00:49:20.220 doesn't

00:49:20.580 believe

00:49:20.900 the ends

00:49:21.260 justify

00:49:21.700 the means

00:49:22.200 and the

00:49:23.260 problem

00:49:23.500 here we've

00:49:23.900 got

00:49:24.140 is that

00:49:24.920 we've got

00:49:25.460 people resisting

00:49:26.280 the status quo

00:49:28.700 opposing it

00:49:29.320 with something

00:49:29.820 just as

00:49:30.400 absurd

00:49:30.880 because

00:49:31.600 the vision

00:49:32.400 they want

00:49:32.720 to get

00:49:32.980 to

00:49:33.240 equality

00:49:34.620 not equity

00:49:35.400 results

00:49:36.540 in tyranny

00:49:37.320 but what

00:49:39.760 they're

00:49:40.540 opposing

00:49:40.940 also has

00:49:41.820 an element

00:49:42.480 of the

00:49:42.880 absurd

00:49:43.220 in it

00:49:43.600 because

00:49:44.160 we saw

00:49:44.940 some of

00:49:45.280 that

00:49:45.420 with

00:49:45.600 the

00:49:45.760 unbridled

00:49:46.540 corporatism

00:49:47.380 that is

00:49:48.640 on display

00:49:49.480 through the

00:49:50.740 big

00:49:50.940 pharmaceutical

00:49:51.400 companies

00:49:52.020 and the

00:49:52.240 way in which

00:49:52.540 they're

00:49:52.720 prepared to

00:49:53.120 kill human

00:49:53.560 beings for

00:49:53.940 profit

00:49:54.240 now the

00:49:55.960 problem here

00:49:56.720 that's why

00:49:57.060 I said

00:49:57.240 what you've

00:49:57.760 described

00:49:58.120 in my

00:49:58.540 view

00:49:59.080 is a

00:50:00.440 critique

00:50:00.740 of half

00:50:01.200 of the

00:50:01.460 problem

00:50:01.740 and if

00:50:03.660 we can

00:50:04.020 zoom out

00:50:04.440 here

00:50:04.640 and understand

00:50:05.240 that this

00:50:06.340 whole thing

00:50:07.040 is caught

00:50:07.540 in

00:50:07.960 the entire

00:50:09.780 thing is caught

00:50:10.240 in problem

00:50:10.620 reaction

00:50:10.980 solution

00:50:11.460 right

00:50:12.060 and if

00:50:12.660 we understand

00:50:13.100 then that

00:50:13.880 the problem

00:50:14.300 here

00:50:14.640 isn't the

00:50:15.500 proton

00:50:15.820 or the

00:50:17.060 neutron

00:50:17.320 but actually

00:50:18.020 both of them

00:50:18.780 recognizing

00:50:19.260 they're part

00:50:19.700 of an

00:50:19.920 atom

00:50:20.140 you know

00:50:21.020 and if

00:50:22.100 they understand

00:50:22.620 they're part

00:50:23.000 of an

00:50:23.220 atom

00:50:23.460 if they

00:50:24.020 understand

00:50:24.420 they're part

00:50:24.800 of one

00:50:25.340 whole

00:50:26.080 then perhaps

00:50:27.780 they won't

00:50:28.920 approach

00:50:29.600 the world's

00:50:30.980 problems

00:50:31.360 through a

00:50:32.680 subject object

00:50:33.840 lens

00:50:34.300 and othering

00:50:35.040 through a

00:50:35.940 perspective of

00:50:36.700 my grievance

00:50:37.760 my pain

00:50:38.460 my victimization

00:50:39.380 is valid

00:50:40.180 and yours

00:50:40.980 is invalid

00:50:41.540 because you're

00:50:43.060 the one

00:50:43.360 doing it

00:50:43.840 to me

00:50:44.120 that's

00:50:44.520 subject

00:50:44.820 to object

00:50:45.160 it's

00:50:45.460 separation

00:50:45.960 and I

00:50:47.360 believe that

00:50:47.780 separation

00:50:48.320 is that the

00:50:48.860 root cause

00:50:49.320 of all of

00:50:49.700 this

00:50:49.860 if we

00:50:50.160 could

00:50:50.320 understand

00:50:50.880 that in

00:50:52.260 fact we

00:50:52.640 are all

00:50:53.200 in our

00:50:54.080 own ways

00:50:54.680 one part

00:50:56.320 of an

00:50:56.500 indivisible

00:50:57.040 whole

00:50:57.400 there is no

00:51:00.640 single center

00:51:01.340 in a sphere

00:51:02.020 for example

00:51:02.500 every point

00:51:03.260 on a sphere

00:51:03.720 is its center

00:51:04.340 and yet it's

00:51:05.620 still a point

00:51:06.160 right

00:51:06.540 if we look

00:51:07.140 at the world

00:51:07.580 in a different

00:51:08.160 way

00:51:08.500 I think

00:51:09.560 that we

00:51:09.840 could escape

00:51:10.340 this trap

00:51:10.900 because the

00:51:11.360 problem I've

00:51:11.860 got isn't

00:51:12.240 just with

00:51:12.620 the woke

00:51:12.920 people

00:51:13.200 Jordan

00:51:13.460 and I'm

00:51:13.780 very happy

00:51:14.280 with your

00:51:14.620 work on

00:51:15.020 that front

00:51:15.400 and I

00:51:15.700 think that

00:51:16.340 more so

00:51:16.740 than most

00:51:17.920 other people

00:51:18.460 I can think

00:51:19.060 of

00:51:19.360 if not all

00:51:20.220 other people

00:51:20.660 I can think

00:51:21.220 of

00:51:21.440 your interviews

00:51:22.760 on that front

00:51:23.400 have been

00:51:23.980 game changing

00:51:24.600 and I

00:51:26.000 congratulate you

00:51:27.080 for that

00:51:27.560 but my

00:51:28.420 problem is

00:51:28.880 a lot

00:51:29.200 deeper than

00:51:29.680 that

00:51:29.880 my problem

00:51:30.440 is

00:51:30.680 what I'm

00:51:31.280 calling

00:51:31.560 the machine

00:51:32.260 it

00:51:33.000 demonstrated

00:51:33.720 its

00:51:34.220 power

00:51:34.900 now

00:51:35.700 COVID mandates

00:51:36.660 and the

00:51:37.080 imposition

00:51:37.800 of

00:51:39.240 mandatory

00:51:39.980 injections

00:51:40.720 against a

00:51:41.740 population

00:51:42.240 and being

00:51:43.580 told that

00:51:44.020 we would

00:51:44.260 lose our

00:51:44.680 jobs

00:51:44.960 for example

00:51:45.440 we would

00:51:45.880 remain locked

00:51:47.300 in our

00:51:47.640 homes

00:51:47.940 unless we

00:51:48.620 consented

00:51:49.200 that's not

00:51:49.700 a woke

00:51:50.380 thing to

00:51:51.020 do

00:51:51.700 in the

00:51:52.840 caricature

00:51:53.280 of the

00:51:53.580 sense of

00:51:53.920 the woke

00:51:54.260 idea that

00:51:55.260 we have

00:51:55.500 in our

00:51:55.720 heads

00:51:55.920 that

00:51:56.660 to put it

00:51:57.800 candidly

00:51:58.400 for you

00:51:58.740 that is

00:51:59.460 the state

00:52:00.600 flexing

00:52:01.740 its muscles

00:52:02.300 and demonstrating

00:52:03.660 that it can

00:52:04.560 do what

00:52:05.060 it wants

00:52:05.800 because it's

00:52:06.300 been captured

00:52:06.860 the second

00:52:07.960 part is

00:52:08.520 my analysis

00:52:09.220 of it

00:52:09.500 because it's

00:52:09.880 been captured

00:52:10.460 by corporate

00:52:11.500 interests

00:52:12.160 and in this

00:52:13.240 case they are

00:52:13.700 big pharmaceutical

00:52:14.400 corporate

00:52:14.980 interests

00:52:15.540 so we've

00:52:17.980 got

00:52:18.220 I think we

00:52:19.940 need to

00:52:20.240 understand

00:52:20.760 that

00:52:21.660 they're also

00:52:23.740 engaging in

00:52:24.500 subject-object

00:52:25.120 they're also

00:52:25.880 engaging in

00:52:26.760 otherizing

00:52:27.660 and I think

00:52:29.100 that's where

00:52:29.540 the problem

00:52:30.040 begins

00:52:30.540 and therefore

00:52:30.980 of course

00:52:31.300 the solution

00:52:31.700 isn't political

00:52:32.360 the solution

00:52:33.220 isn't in

00:52:34.080 any way

00:52:34.520 short-term

00:52:35.240 this is a

00:52:36.200 long-term

00:52:37.100 solution

00:52:37.600 to heal

00:52:38.040 what I

00:52:38.360 believe

00:52:38.600 has become

00:52:39.060 a global

00:52:39.700 problem

00:52:41.400 of human

00:52:43.820 beings living

00:52:44.540 in a state

00:52:44.980 of permanent

00:52:45.500 psychosis

00:52:46.260 or separation

00:52:47.180 from the

00:52:48.940 life source

00:52:49.640 separation

00:52:50.860 from being

00:52:51.520 connected

00:52:52.240 infinite love

00:52:54.340 an externalization

00:52:58.140 of the other

00:52:58.960 and that's

00:53:00.040 happening

00:53:00.340 across the

00:53:01.060 board

00:53:01.260 which is

00:53:01.600 why we're

00:53:02.080 seeing

00:53:02.420 polarization

00:53:03.320 I can't

00:53:04.040 think of a

00:53:04.400 time in

00:53:04.720 my lifetime

00:53:05.240 and I'm

00:53:05.660 younger than

00:53:06.180 you

00:53:06.340 I accept

00:53:07.680 that I've

00:53:08.800 seen a

00:53:09.180 polarization

00:53:09.660 this severe

00:53:11.600 around the

00:53:12.240 world

00:53:12.460 and that's

00:53:13.820 because everyone

00:53:14.300 is the

00:53:14.660 victim

00:53:14.940 and everyone

00:53:16.200 else is their

00:53:16.660 oppressor

00:53:17.160 okay so

00:53:18.380 let me

00:53:19.100 take that

00:53:20.580 apart in

00:53:21.120 two different

00:53:21.620 ways

00:53:22.020 all right

00:53:23.680 so I

00:53:25.000 would say

00:53:25.300 the most

00:53:25.720 sophisticated

00:53:26.540 metaphysical

00:53:27.960 solution

00:53:28.680 to that

00:53:30.160 problem

00:53:30.700 of

00:53:31.240 externalized

00:53:33.080 oppressor

00:53:34.760 narrative

00:53:35.300 is

00:53:36.380 it's

00:53:38.520 the

00:53:39.120 spiritualization

00:53:40.760 of that

00:53:41.300 so let me

00:53:42.380 walk through

00:53:42.860 that very

00:53:43.940 carefully

00:53:44.340 and you

00:53:44.680 tell me

00:53:45.020 what you

00:53:45.620 think about

00:53:46.120 it

00:53:46.260 so

00:53:46.500 there's

00:53:49.100 this idea

00:53:49.720 it's very

00:53:50.600 difficult to

00:53:51.100 know where

00:53:51.340 to start

00:53:51.740 this

00:53:52.120 so there's

00:53:54.260 this idea

00:53:54.820 that's laid

00:53:55.380 out in the

00:53:55.900 story of

00:53:56.340 Genesis

00:53:56.800 in the

00:53:57.600 story of

00:53:57.960 Adam and

00:53:58.320 Eve that

00:53:58.900 the garden

00:54:00.660 that human

00:54:01.300 beings inhabit

00:54:02.100 is permanently

00:54:03.180 co-inhabited

00:54:05.560 by a serpent

00:54:06.280 and that

00:54:08.060 serpent is

00:54:09.020 the eternal

00:54:09.860 predator of

00:54:10.740 mankind

00:54:11.120 you can look

00:54:12.340 at it

00:54:12.580 biologically

00:54:13.260 and you

00:54:14.260 can look

00:54:14.620 at it

00:54:14.940 for example

00:54:15.500 as reflecting

00:54:16.360 the fact

00:54:16.940 that mammals

00:54:17.940 and reptiles

00:54:18.840 have been

00:54:19.340 in conflict

00:54:20.240 for 60

00:54:20.960 million years

00:54:21.840 and you

00:54:22.760 can look

00:54:23.140 at it

00:54:23.520 as a

00:54:24.640 reflection

00:54:25.000 of the

00:54:25.400 fact

00:54:25.640 that snakes

00:54:26.300 themselves

00:54:26.860 have been

00:54:27.300 the enemies

00:54:27.780 of us

00:54:28.520 and our

00:54:29.020 tree dwelling

00:54:29.720 ancestors

00:54:30.320 since time

00:54:31.140 immemorial

00:54:31.720 and you

00:54:32.640 can look

00:54:33.060 at it

00:54:33.360 as a

00:54:33.580 reflection

00:54:33.920 of the

00:54:34.280 fact

00:54:34.500 that human

00:54:35.000 beings

00:54:35.380 are subject

00:54:36.220 to the

00:54:37.700 ravages

00:54:38.700 of predation

00:54:39.640 and that's

00:54:40.420 particularly

00:54:40.820 true of

00:54:41.420 infants

00:54:41.900 and so

00:54:43.060 part of

00:54:44.300 our mammalian

00:54:45.020 heritage

00:54:45.480 as well as

00:54:46.060 our spiritual

00:54:46.620 heritage

00:54:47.020 is the fact

00:54:47.660 that we

00:54:48.620 can be

00:54:49.160 prey animals

00:54:50.000 and that we

00:54:50.560 always have

00:54:51.200 to contend

00:54:51.760 with that

00:54:52.240 now the

00:54:53.980 question

00:54:54.380 emerges from

00:54:55.180 that and

00:54:55.580 this is a

00:54:55.960 very deep

00:54:56.360 metaphysical

00:54:57.220 question

00:54:57.740 what is

00:54:59.520 the essence

00:55:00.420 of what's

00:55:01.180 predatory

00:55:01.820 and then

00:55:02.600 what is

00:55:03.120 the best

00:55:03.560 response

00:55:04.340 to the

00:55:04.860 fact of

00:55:05.400 that essence

00:55:06.120 and so

00:55:07.380 what happens

00:55:09.440 in the

00:55:10.460 corpus of

00:55:11.660 Christian

00:55:12.100 thought

00:55:12.540 surrounding

00:55:13.120 the story

00:55:14.280 of the

00:55:15.420 serpent

00:55:15.700 in the

00:55:16.840 book of

00:55:17.340 Genesis

00:55:17.760 is that

00:55:18.540 the serpent

00:55:19.480 there becomes

00:55:20.400 assimilated

00:55:21.060 to the

00:55:21.480 figure of

00:55:21.940 Lucifer

00:55:22.440 and

00:55:22.660 Mephistopheles

00:55:23.460 to the

00:55:23.960 figure of

00:55:24.400 Satan

00:55:24.740 and

00:55:26.220 Satan

00:55:27.480 this is

00:55:28.060 Milton's

00:55:28.580 take in

00:55:29.100 particular

00:55:29.540 Satan

00:55:30.400 is identified

00:55:31.280 with the

00:55:31.920 serpent

00:55:32.220 and what

00:55:32.680 that means

00:55:33.280 is that

00:55:33.780 the image

00:55:35.060 of Satan

00:55:35.720 symbolically

00:55:36.780 is put

00:55:37.740 forward as

00:55:38.480 the most

00:55:38.980 apt

00:55:39.460 representative

00:55:40.220 of the

00:55:41.100 predator

00:55:41.560 and so

00:55:43.120 here's how

00:55:43.960 it might

00:55:44.380 go psychologically

00:55:45.360 in terms

00:55:46.040 of depth

00:55:46.580 of insight

00:55:47.160 so you

00:55:48.940 want to

00:55:49.260 protect your

00:55:49.800 children from

00:55:50.580 actual

00:55:51.780 natural

00:55:52.360 predators

00:55:52.880 and you

00:55:53.920 could throw

00:55:54.280 snakes into

00:55:54.980 that category

00:55:56.400 and wolves

00:55:57.580 and just

00:55:58.840 the natural

00:56:00.500 the animals

00:56:01.680 that would

00:56:02.160 pose a

00:56:02.940 predatory

00:56:03.540 danger

00:56:04.080 but then

00:56:04.800 that isn't

00:56:05.560 the only

00:56:06.020 predator

00:56:06.540 and it's

00:56:07.480 not predator

00:56:08.140 as such

00:56:09.080 it's a

00:56:09.520 specific predator

00:56:10.400 a snake

00:56:10.940 or a bear

00:56:11.540 or a wolf

00:56:12.140 it's not

00:56:13.060 the concept

00:56:13.780 of predator

00:56:14.460 or predation

00:56:15.460 as such

00:56:16.360 and then

00:56:17.640 you might

00:56:17.940 think

00:56:18.220 well

00:56:18.500 you need

00:56:19.980 a more

00:56:20.420 global

00:56:21.820 and coherent

00:56:22.580 representation

00:56:23.480 of predator

00:56:24.420 and that's

00:56:25.240 what a

00:56:25.540 dragon is

00:56:26.380 a dragon

00:56:27.060 is a

00:56:27.480 meta predator

00:56:28.200 it's a

00:56:29.380 it's a cat

00:56:30.600 it's a snake

00:56:31.720 it's fire

00:56:32.720 it's a

00:56:33.820 predatory bird

00:56:34.900 it's all

00:56:35.920 entangled

00:56:36.540 into one image

00:56:37.500 and that's

00:56:38.180 the image

00:56:38.560 of the predator

00:56:39.320 and the great

00:56:40.340 mythological

00:56:41.020 stories of

00:56:41.940 the hero

00:56:42.420 confronting the

00:56:43.220 dragon

00:56:43.660 is the

00:56:44.560 human being

00:56:45.360 taking a stance

00:56:46.740 against the

00:56:47.380 predator

00:56:47.760 but the

00:56:49.360 greatest

00:56:49.840 dragon

00:56:51.340 isn't merely

00:56:52.720 a dragon

00:56:53.340 it's something

00:56:54.660 metaphysical

00:56:55.420 and so what

00:56:56.140 does that mean

00:56:56.760 well if you're

00:56:57.900 a mother and

00:56:58.440 you're protecting

00:56:58.980 children

00:56:59.440 your children

00:57:00.280 from snakes

00:57:01.260 and then from

00:57:02.100 predators

00:57:02.540 and then from

00:57:03.260 dragons

00:57:03.720 you're also

00:57:04.640 protecting them

00:57:05.620 against the

00:57:06.360 evil in your

00:57:07.500 own house

00:57:08.260 and the evil

00:57:09.400 in your

00:57:09.820 neighbor's

00:57:10.340 heart

00:57:10.880 and evil

00:57:12.820 within the

00:57:13.660 breast of

00:57:14.540 your own

00:57:14.960 children

00:57:15.480 and that

00:57:16.940 starts to

00:57:17.460 become something

00:57:18.080 increasingly

00:57:18.720 metaphysical

00:57:19.440 and the

00:57:20.000 the final

00:57:21.440 transmutation of

00:57:22.540 that idea

00:57:23.120 is that the

00:57:23.940 most profound

00:57:25.900 battle against

00:57:27.440 the predator

00:57:28.240 is the battle

00:57:29.380 that's undertaken

00:57:30.060 within

00:57:30.580 so you say

00:57:31.900 well we shouldn't

00:57:32.600 other and

00:57:33.160 exclude

00:57:33.620 we shouldn't

00:57:34.500 other people

00:57:35.180 and we shouldn't

00:57:35.780 exclude them

00:57:36.420 we shouldn't

00:57:37.080 look for a

00:57:37.660 convenient place

00:57:38.420 to put Satan

00:57:39.240 that's

00:57:40.200 that's the

00:57:41.860 danger that

00:57:42.420 Rene Girard

00:57:43.280 has pointed to

00:57:44.280 with regards to

00:57:45.040 the idea of

00:57:45.640 scapegoating

00:57:46.200 is we want to

00:57:46.840 offload the

00:57:47.780 moral burden

00:57:48.520 onto those

00:57:49.640 we regard as

00:57:50.820 essentially

00:57:52.140 demonic in

00:57:53.000 their motivation

00:57:54.020 we want to be

00:57:55.320 on the side of

00:57:56.040 the good

00:57:56.500 by offloading

00:57:57.860 that we want

00:57:58.540 to do that

00:57:58.960 without doing

00:57:59.560 any of the

00:58:00.080 work and

00:58:01.060 that's part of

00:58:01.720 the motivation

00:58:02.340 for using

00:58:02.880 exclusionary

00:58:03.580 language

00:58:03.980 when the

00:58:04.800 proper attitude

00:58:05.560 is to take

00:58:06.380 on the

00:58:06.800 apocalyptic

00:58:07.400 nightmare of

00:58:08.380 separating the

00:58:09.340 wheat from

00:58:09.760 the chaff

00:58:10.320 inside our

00:58:11.320 own spirits

00:58:12.160 and to

00:58:12.920 clean ourselves

00:58:13.880 so to speak

00:58:14.600 so that we're

00:58:15.200 no longer

00:58:15.980 unwitting

00:58:17.940 agents

00:58:19.280 possessed by

00:58:20.180 that predatory

00:58:21.060 spirit

00:58:21.600 and that makes

00:58:22.360 it into a

00:58:23.400 psychological

00:58:24.180 process

00:58:25.500 rather than

00:58:26.260 something we

00:58:26.760 have to act

00:58:27.460 out in the

00:58:27.960 world

00:58:28.240 and my sense

00:58:29.360 at the moment

00:58:29.880 is that we're

00:58:30.420 all making

00:58:30.820 that decision

00:58:31.500 we're either

00:58:32.320 going to

00:58:32.720 undertake this

00:58:33.780 looming

00:58:35.380 transformation

00:58:36.080 as a

00:58:37.320 psychological

00:58:37.840 enterprise

00:58:38.600 or we're

00:58:39.300 going to

00:58:39.500 play it

00:58:39.920 out as

00:58:40.320 fate in

00:58:40.900 the world

00:58:41.240 that was

00:58:41.640 jung's

00:58:42.020 diagnosis

00:58:42.540 by the way

00:58:43.060 at the end

00:58:43.480 of the

00:58:43.720 second world

00:58:44.220 war

00:58:44.600 and so

00:58:46.120 your attempts

00:58:46.960 right now

00:58:47.400 to engage

00:58:48.000 with me

00:58:48.540 to say

00:58:49.220 well let's

00:58:49.720 not use

00:58:50.300 exclusionary

00:58:51.040 language

00:58:51.540 and dump

00:58:52.280 all the

00:58:52.600 moral culpability

00:58:53.500 onto someone

00:58:54.240 else

00:58:54.600 the palestinians

00:58:55.700 for example

00:58:56.340 because we're

00:58:57.460 just playing

00:58:58.080 into the hands

00:58:58.820 of those

00:58:59.300 that are

00:58:59.760 engaging

00:59:00.500 in this

00:59:01.080 conspiratorial

00:59:02.100 possession

00:59:02.580 i think

00:59:03.560 that's all

00:59:04.080 true

00:59:04.400 it's murky

00:59:05.180 and it's

00:59:05.680 difficult

00:59:06.040 to straighten

00:59:07.380 out

00:59:07.700 but it's

00:59:08.220 true

00:59:09.060 one more

00:59:09.760 thing

00:59:10.000 on one

00:59:11.680 of the

00:59:11.860 points

00:59:12.140 you made

00:59:12.540 so you

00:59:13.780 talked about

00:59:14.400 the use

00:59:15.580 of fascist

00:59:16.340 collusion

00:59:16.960 to further

00:59:17.880 what looks

00:59:18.460 like something

00:59:19.320 even more

00:59:19.880 extensive

00:59:20.360 than the

00:59:20.800 woke agenda

00:59:21.480 i also agree

00:59:22.620 with that

00:59:23.200 and this is

00:59:23.740 where my

00:59:24.200 thinking

00:59:24.520 i would say

00:59:25.180 tilts more

00:59:26.700 towards the

00:59:27.280 classical

00:59:27.740 left

00:59:28.340 is that

00:59:29.220 the left

00:59:29.660 has always

00:59:30.120 been good

00:59:30.580 at pointing

00:59:31.060 out the

00:59:31.480 dangers

00:59:31.860 of corporate

00:59:32.480 gigantism

00:59:33.320 but what

00:59:34.120 we're seeing

00:59:34.620 now is an

00:59:35.760 emergence of

00:59:36.380 gigantism

00:59:37.040 that's not

00:59:37.600 merely corporate

00:59:38.560 it's corporate

00:59:39.820 governmental

00:59:40.600 and media

00:59:41.680 all coming

00:59:43.380 together at

00:59:44.180 the utmost

00:59:45.160 levels of

00:59:45.920 the power

00:59:46.320 hierarchy

00:59:46.880 all devoted

00:59:48.060 towards something

00:59:48.980 like the

00:59:49.500 imposition

00:59:50.060 of stricture

00:59:52.080 and the use

00:59:52.680 of compulsion

00:59:53.340 and force

00:59:54.060 to produce

00:59:55.480 something like

00:59:56.220 this revolutionary

00:59:57.240 change

00:59:58.120 that you've

00:59:58.740 been alluding

00:59:59.300 to

00:59:59.680 mostly

01:00:00.720 motivated

01:00:01.360 at least

01:00:02.060 hypothetically

01:00:02.740 by you know

01:00:03.940 the stated

01:00:04.560 desire to

01:00:05.360 save the

01:00:05.880 virginal planet

01:00:06.700 from being

01:00:07.220 ravaged at

01:00:07.940 the hands

01:00:08.380 of the

01:00:08.680 industrial

01:00:09.120 nightmare

01:00:09.580 and so

01:00:10.660 that's all

01:00:11.180 going on

01:00:11.640 behind the

01:00:12.100 scenes

01:00:12.320 at the

01:00:12.680 same time

01:00:13.360 yeah

01:00:14.940 well

01:00:15.200 they're all

01:00:16.040 unfortunately

01:00:17.360 Jordan

01:00:17.900 they're all

01:00:18.640 dancing to

01:00:19.460 the same

01:00:19.780 tune

01:00:20.120 on all

01:00:21.440 sides

01:00:21.780 of this

01:00:22.100 debate

01:00:22.420 and that's

01:00:23.360 why i said

01:00:23.880 essentially

01:00:24.220 it comes

01:00:24.580 down to

01:00:25.380 this

01:00:26.620 subject

01:00:27.460 object

01:00:27.840 problem

01:00:28.380 or

01:00:28.740 dilemma

01:00:29.120 because

01:00:29.580 you've got

01:00:31.360 valid

01:00:31.860 critiques

01:00:32.400 on both

01:00:33.160 sides

01:00:33.460 i'm not

01:00:34.160 too offended

01:00:34.860 by the

01:00:35.820 communist

01:00:36.140 critique

01:00:36.520 of

01:00:36.740 capitalism

01:00:37.200 and i'm

01:00:38.120 not too

01:00:38.500 offended

01:00:38.740 by the

01:00:39.120 capitalist

01:00:39.440 critique

01:00:39.780 of

01:00:39.980 communism

01:00:40.360 my problem

01:00:41.240 is when

01:00:41.880 the

01:00:42.020 communists

01:00:42.400 say we've

01:00:42.740 got the

01:00:43.000 solution

01:00:43.360 and you're

01:00:44.040 going to

01:00:44.140 have to

01:00:44.460 follow it

01:00:44.900 or when

01:00:45.860 unchecked

01:00:46.480 corporatism

01:00:47.140 says everything's

01:00:48.000 for sale

01:00:48.380 everything's a

01:00:49.080 product

01:00:49.400 and you

01:00:50.180 shouldn't

01:00:50.840 regulate

01:00:51.240 and you know

01:00:52.340 to the extent

01:00:52.860 where these

01:00:53.280 days as you know

01:00:54.120 Jordan if you've

01:00:54.640 been following

01:00:55.040 even traffic

01:00:55.920 children are

01:00:56.780 for sale

01:00:57.140 so i think

01:00:58.160 the problem

01:00:59.300 is that there

01:01:00.400 is legitimate

01:01:01.240 critique on both

01:01:02.340 sides of the

01:01:02.960 other but because

01:01:04.080 there's a subject

01:01:04.800 to object problem

01:01:05.680 the solution

01:01:06.840 each side is

01:01:08.020 proposing is

01:01:08.600 otherizing of

01:01:09.620 the people that

01:01:11.120 they see as

01:01:12.380 their adversaries

01:01:13.040 and that's the

01:01:13.500 classic dilemma

01:01:14.200 let's put it

01:01:15.660 whether it's the

01:01:16.360 political compass

01:01:17.040 you're going to

01:01:17.400 use or the

01:01:17.880 political horseshoe

01:01:18.720 even the symbolism

01:01:20.740 of the cross is

01:01:21.760 this you've got the

01:01:22.220 left and the right

01:01:22.760 and the up and

01:01:23.180 the down

01:01:23.540 but that makes

01:01:24.340 the whole

01:01:24.700 we've got to

01:01:25.220 have a way

01:01:25.960 to look at

01:01:27.140 the world

01:01:27.620 by first looking

01:01:28.640 at ourselves

01:01:29.260 in a holistic way

01:01:30.720 so if we can

01:01:31.600 step back

01:01:32.160 from subject

01:01:32.700 to object

01:01:33.080 and the problem

01:01:34.080 really began

01:01:34.660 with the

01:01:35.060 advent of writing

01:01:36.660 where this

01:01:38.060 shift in psychology

01:01:39.240 began occurring

01:01:40.060 the Kali Yuga

01:01:40.680 period in India

01:01:42.140 for example

01:01:42.680 I am an

01:01:45.080 Arabic linguist

01:01:45.820 I come with

01:01:47.080 a particular

01:01:47.680 love in my heart

01:01:48.720 for the oral

01:01:49.840 tradition of the

01:01:50.640 classical Arabic

01:01:51.420 language

01:01:51.820 which is

01:01:53.900 the closest

01:01:54.320 language surviving

01:01:55.240 today that

01:01:56.120 has a continuous

01:01:57.020 heritage because

01:01:58.120 Hebrew from the

01:01:58.920 Aramaic family

01:01:59.580 of languages

01:02:00.100 had to be

01:02:01.060 revived

01:02:01.460 but the

01:02:02.100 closest living

01:02:03.520 language to

01:02:05.960 Yeshua's

01:02:07.380 Aramaic

01:02:07.980 is Quranic

01:02:09.280 Arabic

01:02:09.560 and perhaps

01:02:11.020 Amharic as well

01:02:11.880 you could argue

01:02:12.500 as well there

01:02:14.120 but I think

01:02:14.820 that this is

01:02:15.640 why I reflect

01:02:16.360 on this subject

01:02:17.040 issue a lot

01:02:18.200 because that

01:02:19.080 was a

01:02:19.420 the Bedouin

01:02:20.020 culture was a

01:02:20.640 very oral

01:02:21.340 tradition

01:02:22.100 and when you

01:02:23.160 put

01:02:23.480 what happens

01:02:24.580 is when you

01:02:25.060 put words

01:02:25.780 into letters

01:02:27.780 on a page

01:02:28.420 I think

01:02:31.700 you engage

01:02:32.360 then in

01:02:32.960 the kind

01:02:33.540 of inversion

01:02:34.240 that leads

01:02:35.780 to the

01:02:36.340 subject

01:02:36.680 object

01:02:37.120 otherisation

01:02:38.020 because those

01:02:38.920 words that

01:02:39.560 I say are

01:02:40.280 spells

01:02:40.600 those words

01:02:41.420 that we use

01:02:42.100 they had

01:02:43.980 a context

01:02:45.860 in which

01:02:46.440 they were

01:02:47.040 allocated to

01:02:48.520 the thing

01:02:48.900 they were

01:02:49.200 used to

01:02:49.580 describe

01:02:49.960 or the

01:02:50.260 verb

01:02:50.520 the action

01:02:51.040 that was

01:02:51.620 said to

01:02:51.960 be done

01:02:52.320 they had

01:02:52.720 that context

01:02:53.460 there

01:02:53.760 the minute

01:02:54.800 we put

01:02:55.220 them down

01:02:55.640 on paper

01:02:56.080 and then

01:02:56.440 memorise

01:02:56.900 them

01:02:57.100 and allow

01:02:57.820 the analytical

01:02:58.460 mind

01:02:59.060 to process

01:02:59.800 their meanings

01:03:00.440 whether we

01:03:01.420 like it

01:03:01.820 or not

01:03:02.140 it's

01:03:02.520 impossible

01:03:03.180 to ever

01:03:04.220 rediscover

01:03:04.760 the experience

01:03:05.700 that was there

01:03:06.280 in the oral

01:03:06.660 tradition

01:03:07.040 for how

01:03:07.760 the words

01:03:08.220 were used

01:03:08.720 in their

01:03:09.260 proper

01:03:09.560 context

01:03:10.180 now there's

01:03:11.660 loads of

01:03:12.020 examples

01:03:12.400 for this

01:03:12.940 but I'll

01:03:13.220 give you

01:03:13.460 one example

01:03:14.040 in Arabic

01:03:15.560 often the word

01:03:16.780 haram

01:03:17.220 is translated

01:03:18.580 to mean

01:03:19.240 prohibited

01:03:19.700 nothing could

01:03:21.160 be further

01:03:21.560 from the

01:03:22.000 truth

01:03:22.280 and by the

01:03:23.480 way

01:03:23.660 as you

01:03:24.200 would know

01:03:24.480 again

01:03:24.720 from my

01:03:25.100 own

01:03:25.260 history

01:03:25.560 I include

01:03:26.480 Muslim

01:03:26.900 common

01:03:27.680 everyday

01:03:28.100 Muslim

01:03:28.500 translations

01:03:29.040 of the

01:03:29.640 word

01:03:29.900 you know

01:03:30.480 I'm not

01:03:30.780 here to

01:03:31.400 say this

01:03:31.740 is a

01:03:32.020 orientalist

01:03:32.680 problem

01:03:33.060 but the

01:03:34.360 because

01:03:35.060 translations

01:03:35.620 here and

01:03:36.000 the way

01:03:36.200 I'm using

01:03:36.600 them is

01:03:36.880 psychological

01:03:37.280 translations

01:03:38.020 not the

01:03:38.620 which

01:03:39.360 particular

01:03:39.720 language

01:03:40.020 you choose

01:03:40.540 to translate

01:03:43.240 this into

01:03:43.820 it could

01:03:44.140 even be

01:03:44.480 modern

01:03:44.800 usage

01:03:45.520 of Arabic

01:03:46.320 by Arabs

01:03:46.900 but psychologically

01:03:47.660 they're translating

01:03:48.460 it wrong

01:03:48.900 it doesn't

01:03:49.480 mean

01:03:49.640 prohibited

01:03:50.140 haram

01:03:50.840 actually

01:03:51.340 means

01:03:51.720 sacred

01:03:52.120 if you

01:03:52.920 go to

01:03:53.260 Makkah

01:03:53.600 and you

01:03:54.280 see the

01:03:54.640 black house

01:03:55.240 of Allah

01:03:55.620 there

01:03:55.880 that's

01:03:56.160 called

01:03:56.340 the sacred

01:03:58.320 house

01:03:58.620 it's

01:03:58.800 the same

01:03:59.160 word

01:03:59.460 haram

01:04:00.240 right

01:04:01.340 why I

01:04:02.280 raise that

01:04:02.660 example

01:04:03.100 is because

01:04:04.060 what is

01:04:04.780 the so

01:04:05.300 called

01:04:05.580 prohibited

01:04:06.100 if you

01:04:06.620 shift

01:04:07.180 into an

01:04:07.680 oral

01:04:07.900 tradition

01:04:08.340 there was

01:04:09.340 nothing

01:04:09.680 prohibited

01:04:10.120 in that

01:04:10.640 sense

01:04:10.960 what was

01:04:11.540 prohibited

01:04:11.860 about it

01:04:12.480 was the

01:04:12.840 context

01:04:13.300 around

01:04:13.680 which

01:04:13.960 it

01:04:14.140 occurred

01:04:14.600 so

01:04:15.840 sex

01:04:16.860 outside

01:04:17.220 of

01:04:17.780 a

01:04:18.400 sacred

01:04:19.320 partnership

01:04:20.020 and I

01:04:20.360 use that

01:04:20.760 word again

01:04:21.180 on purpose

01:04:21.600 and not

01:04:21.860 the word

01:04:22.120 marriage

01:04:22.440 just to drive

01:04:23.060 home the

01:04:23.340 point I'm

01:04:23.660 trying to

01:04:23.900 make

01:04:24.120 yeah

01:04:24.300 sex

01:04:24.980 outside

01:04:25.320 of a

01:04:25.760 sacred

01:04:26.140 partnership

01:04:26.660 is the

01:04:27.060 very

01:04:27.360 same

01:04:27.880 act

01:04:28.420 but in

01:04:29.280 one

01:04:29.600 context

01:04:30.120 it's

01:04:30.880 sacred

01:04:31.520 i.e.

01:04:32.420 harama

01:04:32.900 sacred

01:04:33.500 in the

01:04:33.920 other context

01:04:34.480 it's

01:04:34.680 haram

01:04:35.160 profane

01:04:36.480 and that's

01:04:37.500 why the

01:04:37.840 sacred

01:04:38.180 and the

01:04:38.500 profane

01:04:39.020 are simply

01:04:39.800 the silver

01:04:40.460 and dark

01:04:40.980 side

01:04:41.220 of a

01:04:41.500 mirror

01:04:41.700 the

01:04:43.040 meaning

01:04:43.360 of the

01:04:43.680 word

01:04:43.860 changes

01:04:44.300 only

01:04:44.820 because

01:04:45.220 of its

01:04:45.520 context

01:04:46.060 and again

01:04:46.560 marriage

01:04:46.940 to continue

01:04:47.500 that

01:04:47.720 example

01:04:48.180 why I said

01:04:49.280 sacred

01:04:49.640 partnership

01:04:50.120 and not

01:04:50.460 the word

01:04:50.740 marriage

01:04:51.100 is because

01:04:51.680 the word

01:04:52.040 in Arabic

01:04:52.380 is

01:04:52.640 zawjah

01:04:53.260 for your

01:04:55.020 life partner

01:04:55.640 your sacred

01:04:56.180 partner

01:04:56.600 zawjah

01:04:57.420 means

01:04:57.700 pair

01:04:58.220 it doesn't

01:04:58.940 mean wife

01:04:59.520 and it doesn't

01:05:00.200 mean subservient

01:05:01.000 it means

01:05:01.900 pair

01:05:02.340 in Arabic

01:05:02.880 yeah

01:05:03.320 you're pairing

01:05:04.000 so what

01:05:05.120 we have

01:05:05.580 is

01:05:05.800 an

01:05:06.360 aqd

01:05:06.720 zawaj

01:05:07.460 aqd

01:05:08.880 which again

01:05:09.700 commonly mistranslated

01:05:10.740 as the contract

01:05:11.480 of marriage

01:05:12.020 means

01:05:12.700 aqd

01:05:13.100 zawaj

01:05:13.600 means

01:05:13.920 the tying

01:05:14.980 of a pair

01:05:15.580 aqd

01:05:16.440 comes from

01:05:16.840 the word

01:05:17.160 knot

01:05:17.560 now that word

01:05:18.880 knot

01:05:19.240 aqda

01:05:19.880 yeah

01:05:20.340 which today

01:05:20.980 is again

01:05:21.640 mistranslated

01:05:22.560 to mean

01:05:22.920 contract

01:05:23.420 which takes

01:05:23.980 all the spirit

01:05:24.560 and love

01:05:24.880 out of that

01:05:25.400 yeah

01:05:25.920 which is why

01:05:26.400 you have

01:05:26.560 these prenuptial

01:05:27.140 agreements

01:05:27.480 as well

01:05:27.820 aqd

01:05:28.620 actually means

01:05:29.160 tie

01:05:29.540 to tie

01:05:30.120 a knot

01:05:30.500 so the aqd

01:05:31.220 zawaj

01:05:31.740 the tying

01:05:32.360 of a pair

01:05:33.580 they don't have

01:05:34.420 to be married

01:05:34.820 they have

01:05:35.100 to be in

01:05:35.340 a sacred

01:05:35.900 relationship

01:05:36.480 that knot

01:05:37.560 that you're

01:05:38.180 tying there

01:05:38.920 happens to be

01:05:40.120 the word

01:05:40.720 for again

01:05:41.640 commonly mistranslated

01:05:42.840 to doctrine

01:05:44.100 aqd

01:05:45.340 is from the

01:05:46.200 same root

01:05:46.760 there

01:05:47.000 aqda

01:05:47.520 which means

01:05:48.260 again

01:05:48.540 to have

01:05:48.880 a knot

01:05:49.220 with Allah

01:05:50.000 so you see

01:05:51.300 how the

01:05:51.820 context

01:05:52.520 around those

01:05:53.220 words

01:05:53.620 are fundamentally

01:05:54.640 different

01:05:55.360 we've lost

01:05:55.900 that context

01:05:56.600 because we've

01:05:57.380 lost that

01:05:57.760 oral tradition

01:05:58.240 which is why

01:05:58.700 you and I

01:05:59.120 agree

01:05:59.420 that traditionally

01:06:00.420 can go a

01:06:01.560 long way

01:06:02.000 to restoring

01:06:02.840 and healing

01:06:03.280 those wounds

01:06:04.100 that the

01:06:05.240 overly analytical

01:06:06.240 mind

01:06:06.780 has

01:06:07.780 inflicted

01:06:08.900 upon itself

01:06:09.560 by what

01:06:10.700 we lost

01:06:11.240 when we lost

01:06:11.940 the oral

01:06:12.920 tradition

01:06:13.340 why is all

01:06:14.160 of that

01:06:14.400 relevant

01:06:14.760 because

01:06:15.420 and forgive

01:06:16.540 me for the

01:06:17.040 long anecdote

01:06:18.040 there

01:06:18.300 linguistic

01:06:18.780 anecdote

01:06:19.200 or hermeneutic

01:06:19.960 anecdote

01:06:20.260 why all of

01:06:21.180 that in my

01:06:21.700 view is

01:06:22.000 relevant

01:06:22.300 is because

01:06:22.960 it comes

01:06:23.400 back to

01:06:23.880 the problem

01:06:24.320 we're

01:06:25.100 speaking

01:06:25.420 of

01:06:25.680 once we

01:06:27.820 take words

01:06:28.940 out of their

01:06:29.460 context

01:06:29.920 and put

01:06:30.320 them on

01:06:30.640 paper

01:06:30.920 and I'm

01:06:31.220 no

01:06:31.380 Luddite

01:06:31.840 so I'm

01:06:32.620 not saying

01:06:33.100 the written

01:06:34.180 word should

01:06:34.600 never have

01:06:35.020 been invented

01:06:35.700 the prophet

01:06:37.580 Muhammad

01:06:38.040 blessings be

01:06:39.680 upon him

01:06:40.100 didn't write

01:06:40.540 the Quran

01:06:40.880 down

01:06:41.160 it was

01:06:41.440 never

01:06:41.640 written down

01:06:42.060 during his

01:06:42.400 lifetime

01:06:42.640 it was

01:06:43.000 actually

01:06:43.260 collected

01:06:43.660 on stones

01:06:44.440 and leaves

01:06:44.860 and it was

01:06:45.440 the third

01:06:45.860 caliph

01:06:46.280 Uthman

01:06:46.880 who collected

01:06:47.680 it in one

01:06:48.280 book

01:06:48.540 which is why

01:06:49.120 today it's

01:06:49.520 called

01:06:49.680 Mashaf Uthman

01:06:50.500 the one that

01:06:51.000 you know

01:06:51.340 and that

01:06:51.600 everyone sees

01:06:52.440 as the Quran

01:06:52.940 is called

01:06:53.640 Mashaf Uthman

01:06:54.500 that was only

01:06:55.640 brought about

01:06:56.360 and collected

01:06:56.780 during the

01:06:57.180 third caliph

01:06:57.740 during the

01:06:58.160 caliphate

01:06:58.600 or the

01:06:59.580 successorship

01:07:00.140 again a word

01:07:00.860 very mistranslated

01:07:02.180 caliph means

01:07:03.320 successor to

01:07:04.120 Allah and his

01:07:04.700 messenger

01:07:05.000 that's all it

01:07:05.560 means in the

01:07:06.540 temporal sense

01:07:07.380 because no one

01:07:07.920 can succeed him

01:07:08.500 in the

01:07:08.700 prophethood

01:07:09.120 so that

01:07:10.480 successor

01:07:10.960 Abu Bakr

01:07:11.620 and then

01:07:11.920 after him

01:07:12.340 Umar

01:07:12.600 they did

01:07:13.020 not

01:07:13.240 collate the

01:07:13.720 Quran

01:07:13.920 for the

01:07:14.320 very same

01:07:14.780 reason

01:07:15.100 instead it

01:07:15.940 was memorized

01:07:16.440 in the

01:07:16.900 hearts

01:07:17.140 because people

01:07:17.640 didn't want

01:07:18.020 to lose

01:07:18.560 the context

01:07:20.000 of the words

01:07:20.580 around them

01:07:21.100 that tradition

01:07:22.200 by the way

01:07:22.660 of memorizing

01:07:23.260 as you know

01:07:23.640 carries on

01:07:24.140 until today

01:07:24.620 I've memorized

01:07:25.160 half of it

01:07:25.680 myself

01:07:26.060 though I

01:07:27.220 am a bit

01:07:27.600 rusty

01:07:27.900 but it was

01:07:29.260 the third

01:07:29.660 caliph

01:07:30.000 that then

01:07:30.380 put that

01:07:30.860 so I'm

01:07:31.980 not against

01:07:32.460 putting things

01:07:33.000 down in writing

01:07:33.640 what I'm

01:07:34.000 saying is

01:07:34.360 we've got

01:07:34.860 to be

01:07:35.160 cognizant

01:07:35.560 of what

01:07:35.780 we lose

01:07:36.460 when we

01:07:36.860 do that

01:07:37.260 so that

01:07:37.740 we can

01:07:38.060 try

01:07:38.520 and maintain

01:07:39.500 the connection

01:07:40.440 that we

01:07:41.200 lose

01:07:41.600 when we

01:07:42.120 do that

01:07:42.520 and it's

01:07:43.060 that connection

01:07:43.680 or the

01:07:44.000 knot

01:07:44.340 that I'm

01:07:45.080 saying has

01:07:45.520 been lost

01:07:45.980 today

01:07:46.240 and you

01:07:46.600 with your

01:07:47.580 advocacy

01:07:48.640 for a

01:07:49.360 deeper

01:07:50.560 appreciation

01:07:51.080 of traditional

01:07:51.940 mythologies

01:07:52.440 and wisdom

01:07:52.960 I think

01:07:53.620 hopefully

01:07:53.980 would understand

01:07:54.660 when I say

01:07:55.540 that connection

01:07:56.160 we've lost

01:07:56.600 so if we

01:07:57.420 can strengthen

01:07:58.160 that connection

01:07:58.980 pre-subject

01:08:00.080 object

01:08:00.640 recognize

01:08:02.020 that we're

01:08:02.880 all a point

01:08:03.560 on a sphere

01:08:04.100 in other words

01:08:04.680 we're all part

01:08:05.380 of an indivisible

01:08:06.100 whole

01:08:06.480 then the othering

01:08:08.220 is declined

01:08:09.420 of course

01:08:09.860 it's always

01:08:10.600 a struggle

01:08:11.080 because that

01:08:11.720 connection

01:08:12.060 can be weak

01:08:12.800 sometimes

01:08:13.300 but that's

01:08:13.740 why you

01:08:14.000 engage

01:08:14.300 in spiritual

01:08:14.740 practice

01:08:15.220 to strengthen

01:08:16.140 it

01:08:16.340 and whatever

01:08:16.900 way that is

01:08:17.660 personally

01:08:18.340 my teacher

01:08:19.340 is Sheikh Ali

01:08:20.240 Al-Qadri

01:08:20.700 I'm of the

01:08:21.460 Sufi way

01:08:22.020 but the

01:08:23.040 Sufi way

01:08:23.440 by definition

01:08:24.140 would say

01:08:24.660 that listen

01:08:25.220 I'm not going

01:08:25.640 to say to you

01:08:26.100 you have to

01:08:26.540 follow me

01:08:26.960 this is like

01:08:28.460 the Sharia

01:08:28.860 it means

01:08:29.460 the path

01:08:29.900 to water

01:08:30.480 in the desert

01:08:31.180 you go to

01:08:32.120 water for life

01:08:32.960 and then you

01:08:33.540 carry on

01:08:33.900 traveling

01:08:34.240 that's all

01:08:34.960 Sharia means

01:08:35.460 by the way

01:08:35.800 the path

01:08:36.180 to water

01:08:36.600 so if we

01:08:37.460 can understand

01:08:37.980 what we've

01:08:38.500 lost

01:08:38.720 when we put

01:08:39.680 words down

01:08:40.340 in writing

01:08:40.840 is we lost

01:08:41.820 the relational

01:08:42.540 aspect

01:08:43.240 of the

01:08:45.880 technology

01:08:46.360 writing

01:08:46.720 was technology

01:08:47.420 why all

01:08:48.960 of that

01:08:49.320 is relevant

01:08:49.760 I believe

01:08:50.220 is today

01:08:50.860 as I mentioned

01:08:51.540 in my conversation

01:08:52.500 a year ago

01:08:53.000 with Joe

01:08:53.480 Rogan

01:08:54.480 today

01:08:55.580 the version

01:08:56.360 of writing

01:08:56.920 writing today

01:08:57.800 is big tech

01:08:59.420 is social media

01:09:00.440 it's taking us

01:09:01.560 to that next stage

01:09:02.600 of separation

01:09:03.400 in the name

01:09:04.040 of togetherness

01:09:04.760 in the name

01:09:05.600 of community

01:09:06.180 it's actually

01:09:06.960 pulling us apart

01:09:07.700 and as you see

01:09:08.380 with your own

01:09:09.120 concerns on

01:09:09.800 anonymity on Twitter

01:09:11.180 it's psychologically

01:09:12.640 allowing people

01:09:13.760 to abuse others

01:09:14.740 and speak to them

01:09:15.560 in another rising tone

01:09:17.140 which is precisely

01:09:18.140 what your concern

01:09:19.020 was with

01:09:19.840 anonymous people

01:09:21.360 on Twitter

01:09:21.700 so I don't think

01:09:22.160 by the way

01:09:22.500 the solution

01:09:22.940 is anonymity

01:09:23.660 but that's another

01:09:24.360 topic

01:09:24.760 you know

01:09:25.120 yeah well

01:09:26.020 there's something

01:09:26.540 there that

01:09:27.100 you're pointing to

01:09:28.440 I'm going to go

01:09:28.940 in a couple

01:09:29.280 directions on this

01:09:30.060 you're pointing

01:09:30.460 to the dangers

01:09:31.360 of

01:09:31.900 what would you say

01:09:35.120 it's a formalized

01:09:36.820 abstraction

01:09:37.520 I mean

01:09:38.380 as we build

01:09:39.800 conceptual systems

01:09:41.380 that are linguistic

01:09:42.340 they get more

01:09:43.540 and more distant

01:09:44.380 from the embodied

01:09:46.220 experience

01:09:46.860 that's that

01:09:47.420 contextualized

01:09:48.280 embodied experience

01:09:49.140 that you were

01:09:49.760 referring to

01:09:50.460 and they lose

01:09:51.680 their connection

01:09:52.380 with what's

01:09:53.940 most real

01:09:54.680 and we could

01:09:56.020 define what's

01:09:56.740 most real

01:09:57.320 as the domain

01:09:58.920 of the sacred

01:09:59.580 I'm going to

01:10:00.300 give you an analogy

01:10:01.080 this is something

01:10:01.820 extraordinarily

01:10:02.500 interesting

01:10:03.280 a couple of

01:10:04.820 months ago

01:10:05.300 there was a

01:10:05.780 paper published

01:10:06.500 in the journal

01:10:07.040 Nature

01:10:07.460 about the

01:10:10.020 nature of

01:10:10.940 genetic mutation

01:10:12.300 okay so it's

01:10:14.140 been thought

01:10:14.560 for a long

01:10:15.120 time that

01:10:15.660 genetic mutations

01:10:16.560 are essentially

01:10:17.320 random

01:10:17.880 and the reason

01:10:20.280 for that is

01:10:20.940 that the

01:10:22.520 molecular structure

01:10:23.800 the atomic

01:10:24.380 structure of a

01:10:25.240 given strand

01:10:25.820 of DNA can be

01:10:26.920 detrimentally affected

01:10:28.120 by all sorts of

01:10:29.200 environmental assaults

01:10:30.920 including radiation

01:10:32.620 cosmic radiation

01:10:33.780 will knock pieces

01:10:34.700 of the genetic

01:10:35.400 code out

01:10:36.100 and that produces

01:10:37.200 a mutation

01:10:37.880 there's other ways

01:10:38.880 that can happen

01:10:39.580 and then those

01:10:40.460 mutations are part

01:10:41.560 of what produces

01:10:42.260 natural variation

01:10:43.440 and natural

01:10:44.520 selection draws

01:10:45.460 on that natural

01:10:46.380 variation to

01:10:47.260 further evolution

01:10:48.540 but the idea

01:10:49.900 was that the

01:10:50.560 mutations were

01:10:51.380 random and they

01:10:52.220 have to be in

01:10:52.860 some sense

01:10:53.360 because cosmic

01:10:54.460 rays don't care

01:10:55.640 what part of the

01:10:56.460 DNA chain they

01:10:57.460 affect

01:10:57.860 but it's been

01:10:59.880 recently discovered

01:11:01.180 that although the

01:11:03.020 mutations themselves

01:11:04.220 may be random

01:11:05.380 the repair process

01:11:07.820 isn't

01:11:08.540 and so DNA

01:11:10.680 when it replicates

01:11:11.940 it error

01:11:12.480 corrects

01:11:13.280 and if there

01:11:14.580 are parts of

01:11:15.220 the DNA strand

01:11:16.200 that have been

01:11:17.460 damaged and are

01:11:18.340 no longer viable

01:11:19.280 they will be

01:11:20.300 corrected

01:11:20.740 but there's a

01:11:21.940 hierarchy of

01:11:22.820 correction

01:11:23.360 and so the

01:11:25.320 more fundamental

01:11:26.440 a DNA code

01:11:27.720 is to the

01:11:28.560 basic necessary

01:11:29.980 morphology of

01:11:31.140 the organism

01:11:31.840 the higher the

01:11:32.980 probability that

01:11:33.880 the error

01:11:34.340 correction will be

01:11:35.260 100%

01:11:36.600 and so what

01:11:38.180 happens is that

01:11:39.280 evolution tinkers

01:11:41.100 on the fringes

01:11:42.060 and not at the

01:11:42.980 core

01:11:43.360 and the core

01:11:45.460 in this

01:11:47.560 hierarchy of

01:11:48.480 DNA importance

01:11:49.300 is analogous

01:11:51.640 to the

01:11:52.480 sacred

01:11:52.880 so you imagine

01:11:54.100 in a conceptual

01:11:54.860 structure

01:11:55.480 there are some

01:11:56.660 presuppositions

01:11:57.820 that are

01:11:58.940 that many other

01:12:00.400 presuppositions

01:12:01.320 depend upon

01:12:02.160 they're fundamental

01:12:03.500 and those

01:12:05.000 fundamental

01:12:05.600 presuppositions

01:12:06.500 are sacred

01:12:07.220 and the reason

01:12:08.200 it's forbidden

01:12:08.880 to mess with

01:12:09.600 them is it's

01:12:10.300 like touching

01:12:10.780 the Ark of

01:12:11.260 the Covenant

01:12:11.680 is if you

01:12:12.780 if you touch

01:12:13.800 what's properly

01:12:14.580 sacred with a

01:12:15.780 profane hand

01:12:16.660 you will be

01:12:17.440 struck dead

01:12:18.260 and that's the

01:12:19.740 truth

01:12:20.160 now the question

01:12:21.340 is what's

01:12:22.500 validly sacred

01:12:23.540 now the

01:12:24.260 enlightenment

01:12:24.780 types would

01:12:25.820 say everything's

01:12:27.620 equally up for

01:12:28.560 grabs

01:12:29.020 but they don't

01:12:30.760 even abide by

01:12:31.460 that principle

01:12:32.080 in their own

01:12:32.560 investigations

01:12:33.240 because for

01:12:34.000 example someone

01:12:34.720 like Richard Dawkins

01:12:35.780 holds it as

01:12:36.660 holy the

01:12:37.740 notion that

01:12:38.520 the truth

01:12:39.540 will set you

01:12:40.200 free and

01:12:41.320 that the

01:12:41.740 cosmos has a

01:12:42.860 logos whose

01:12:43.560 investigation will

01:12:44.760 enlighten and

01:12:46.180 and further

01:12:47.540 our struggle

01:12:48.720 forward and

01:12:49.780 those are

01:12:50.180 sacred religious

01:12:51.160 presuppositions

01:12:52.060 that underlie

01:12:52.920 the practice

01:12:53.940 of science

01:12:54.660 just like they

01:12:55.640 underlie the

01:12:56.180 practice of any

01:12:56.880 religious tradition

01:12:57.680 there is a

01:12:58.600 hierarchy of

01:12:59.520 presumption

01:13:00.160 and the

01:13:01.460 presumptions at

01:13:02.520 the deepest

01:13:02.960 level are the

01:13:03.720 sacred

01:13:04.060 presumptions

01:13:04.760 now you

01:13:05.280 talked about

01:13:05.900 marriage and

01:13:07.140 the ability

01:13:08.280 of a sacred

01:13:09.540 bond to

01:13:10.280 render sex

01:13:11.760 sacred instead

01:13:13.320 of profane

01:13:14.140 and I think

01:13:15.160 that is one

01:13:16.180 of the sacred

01:13:17.460 realizations of

01:13:18.560 mankind that

01:13:19.480 the sexual act

01:13:20.820 has to be

01:13:21.580 sanctified

01:13:22.860 has to be

01:13:23.860 placed in a

01:13:24.820 domain of

01:13:26.020 fundamental

01:13:26.880 relationship

01:13:27.660 before it

01:13:28.920 can act as

01:13:29.900 anything other

01:13:30.460 than a

01:13:30.820 destructive

01:13:31.280 impulsive

01:13:31.900 hedonistic

01:13:32.580 force

01:13:33.120 and I

01:13:34.060 think that

01:13:34.460 that's as

01:13:35.300 true as

01:13:35.800 anything is

01:13:36.420 true

01:13:36.660 now part

01:13:37.700 of what's

01:13:38.520 ripping us

01:13:40.180 apart on

01:13:41.480 the international

01:13:42.160 landscape and

01:13:42.980 psychologically at

01:13:44.120 the moment is

01:13:44.740 that it's very

01:13:45.360 difficult for us

01:13:46.280 number one to

01:13:47.000 agree that there

01:13:47.780 are such things

01:13:48.980 as sacred

01:13:50.160 propositions

01:13:51.060 and second to

01:13:52.460 agree on what

01:13:53.480 those are

01:13:54.220 and this is part

01:13:55.440 of what's also

01:13:56.080 making it difficult

01:13:56.980 for the

01:13:57.640 Islamic

01:13:58.680 Christian and

01:13:59.860 Jewish faiths

01:14:00.860 to come together

01:14:01.480 so one

01:14:02.300 example of

01:14:02.880 that for

01:14:03.260 example would

01:14:04.160 be well

01:14:04.700 would be

01:14:05.320 continued debate

01:14:06.160 about the

01:14:06.660 centrality of

01:14:07.320 the figure of

01:14:07.860 Christ and

01:14:08.860 so perhaps we

01:14:10.840 can delve into

01:14:11.460 that to some

01:14:12.000 degree but

01:14:12.620 that elucidates

01:14:14.620 the landscape

01:14:15.440 that we're

01:14:15.980 dealing with in

01:14:16.580 a little bit

01:14:16.900 more detail

01:14:17.580 May I say on

01:14:19.280 your first

01:14:19.740 challenge what

01:14:20.940 is sorry is

01:14:23.140 there a sacred

01:14:23.700 as opposed to

01:14:24.380 what is it I

01:14:25.300 think there is a

01:14:26.180 way a gentle

01:14:27.980 way forward on

01:14:28.660 that one and

01:14:29.540 actually that would

01:14:30.280 help even if

01:14:30.860 we could like

01:14:31.800 like the other

01:14:32.500 point about

01:14:32.900 language I was

01:14:33.420 trying to make

01:14:33.960 that if we can

01:14:34.960 at least agree

01:14:35.500 that our

01:14:36.060 language shouldn't

01:14:36.720 be exclusionary

01:14:37.620 we at least

01:14:38.620 have a way to

01:14:39.400 try and have a

01:14:40.520 conversation I

01:14:41.120 think likewise

01:14:41.740 if we can at

01:14:43.720 least agree that

01:14:44.540 there should be

01:14:46.040 that there is a

01:14:46.760 sacred then the

01:14:47.620 next level

01:14:48.160 challenge is what

01:14:49.120 is that sacred

01:14:50.040 and I think there

01:14:50.600 is a way forward

01:14:51.240 here because

01:14:52.060 back to the

01:14:53.420 back to the

01:14:55.440 relationship between

01:14:56.060 words and their

01:14:56.600 context and why I

01:14:58.060 believe when you

01:14:58.500 put words down

01:14:59.780 again I'm not a

01:15:00.440 Luddite and

01:15:01.320 again so in

01:15:02.440 today's context

01:15:03.100 why this is

01:15:03.640 relevant again just

01:15:04.340 for everyone and

01:15:04.960 I know you're

01:15:05.600 following me Jordan

01:15:06.120 but why this is

01:15:06.760 relevant for

01:15:07.180 everyone is the

01:15:08.080 equivalent of

01:15:08.800 inventing writing

01:15:09.680 today is you

01:15:10.760 know social media

01:15:11.360 big tech and

01:15:11.940 it's a new

01:15:12.720 invention that's

01:15:13.360 forcing us to

01:15:13.960 cognitively evolve

01:15:15.240 in a certain way

01:15:15.940 and that's what

01:15:16.440 we're seeing all

01:15:17.380 these challenges

01:15:17.880 it's like the

01:15:18.600 30 years war I

01:15:19.520 made this point

01:15:20.060 with Rogan a year

01:15:20.760 ago so I think

01:15:22.360 there is a way

01:15:22.920 forward to say

01:15:23.440 that there should

01:15:23.980 be a sacred and

01:15:24.720 why that is is

01:15:25.620 back to the

01:15:26.100 invention of writing

01:15:26.900 to serve as the

01:15:27.640 case study for

01:15:28.460 or as the

01:15:29.580 symbol for

01:15:30.060 today's big tech

01:15:30.780 and its impact

01:15:32.360 on us and

01:15:32.860 its consequences

01:15:34.680 we're having to

01:15:35.260 live with

01:15:35.600 when they put

01:15:36.940 writing down

01:15:37.800 what it did is

01:15:41.120 it made us

01:15:41.480 believe our

01:15:41.840 future is ahead

01:15:42.460 of us and

01:15:42.900 our past is

01:15:43.460 behind us

01:15:44.060 when in truth

01:15:46.360 our future is

01:15:47.140 behind us and

01:15:47.980 our past is

01:15:49.460 ahead of us

01:15:50.180 and I need to

01:15:51.060 unpack that

01:15:51.640 and I need to

01:15:53.740 write history

01:15:53.960 down in a book

01:15:54.800 when you write

01:15:56.540 history down in a

01:15:57.240 book you're going

01:15:57.600 in chronology in

01:15:58.480 chronological order

01:15:59.340 because that's the

01:16:00.680 inherent capabilities

01:16:01.800 that we have and

01:16:02.920 how we write and

01:16:03.720 where whether in

01:16:04.600 Arabic from right to

01:16:05.380 left in Hebrew from

01:16:06.120 right to left in

01:16:06.940 Aramaic family

01:16:07.540 languages or from

01:16:08.740 left to right in

01:16:09.340 English you're writing

01:16:12.360 in a certain

01:16:13.320 timeline it's his

01:16:15.260 story right it's the

01:16:17.100 story of the author

01:16:18.060 and they cannot

01:16:20.260 but either write

01:16:21.640 from their

01:16:22.560 perspective or

01:16:23.760 from the perspective

01:16:24.500 of the king they

01:16:25.280 serve or from

01:16:26.840 their perspective

01:16:28.840 being a culmination

01:16:30.800 of the efforts to

01:16:31.620 gather the people's

01:16:32.500 perspectives but it

01:16:33.300 will still always be

01:16:34.320 their perspective on

01:16:35.760 the people's

01:16:36.240 perspective of what

01:16:37.160 happened in history

01:16:37.940 so we cannot but

01:16:40.100 help try and

01:16:41.040 write in a

01:16:41.680 chronological order

01:16:42.440 now what that

01:16:43.040 leads to is another

01:16:43.800 illusion that our

01:16:45.140 past is behind us

01:16:46.000 and our future is

01:16:46.900 ahead of us the

01:16:49.340 written word

01:16:49.900 psychologically does

01:16:50.800 that to us I

01:16:51.700 believe the truth

01:16:53.480 is why is our past

01:16:55.200 ahead of us and our

01:16:55.900 future behind us

01:16:56.620 because actually if

01:16:58.840 you look at it if

01:17:00.160 you look at it from

01:17:00.640 the oral tradition

01:17:01.400 if you look at it

01:17:02.300 from the Aramaic

01:17:03.740 family of languages

01:17:04.540 Bedouins people that

01:17:05.720 lived for that

01:17:07.060 connection they were

01:17:08.340 all about survival of

01:17:09.740 their genes you

01:17:10.300 brought up DNA it was

01:17:12.760 about survival their

01:17:13.820 family if they lost a

01:17:15.440 child in that

01:17:16.160 context I mean that

01:17:18.700 means more than

01:17:19.420 losing a child today

01:17:20.260 if you get my drift

01:17:21.160 because it meant

01:17:21.900 cutting off of their

01:17:23.100 entire ability to

01:17:24.780 exist that child could

01:17:26.440 well have been the one

01:17:27.220 that continued the

01:17:28.500 future of that tribe

01:17:29.360 your child is therefore

01:17:31.660 your future even though

01:17:34.160 it comes after you

01:17:35.000 which is what I meant

01:17:36.260 by the past is ahead

01:17:37.260 of us your your child

01:17:40.000 is your future the

01:17:40.900 people the things you

01:17:41.780 leave behind are the

01:17:43.080 future the things you've

01:17:46.380 done you know it it

01:17:49.780 doesn't matter what

01:17:50.480 matters is if you build

01:17:51.980 it for your future

01:17:52.940 which is the thing you

01:17:53.680 left behind are your

01:17:54.480 children if we understand

01:17:56.120 it like that and that

01:17:57.240 comes from the Bedouin

01:17:58.400 collective kind of and

01:18:00.640 when I say collective I

01:18:01.560 don't mean in the

01:18:02.000 communist Soviet sense I

01:18:03.500 hope you understand I

01:18:04.260 mean in the every every

01:18:06.020 point on a sphere is the

01:18:07.300 centre of the sphere and

01:18:08.520 yet it's still a point

01:18:09.380 yeah when you understand

01:18:11.420 it in that context you

01:18:12.540 understand that sacred if

01:18:13.960 it were to mean anything

01:18:15.100 at all would be to be

01:18:16.440 doing actions as an

01:18:17.700 individual and as a

01:18:19.180 community that don't harm

01:18:20.960 that child what we've

01:18:24.240 come to today because of

01:18:25.940 the way in which

01:18:26.480 psychologically we have

01:18:27.640 inverted everything's up

01:18:30.200 for sale again back to

01:18:31.820 subject object the minute

01:18:32.880 we separate from that

01:18:34.160 connection the minute we

01:18:36.080 cause that separation which

01:18:37.600 in metaphysical terms would

01:18:39.100 be or let's call them

01:18:40.220 in let's say you know in

01:18:42.440 in Sufi terms that's

01:18:44.040 without yeah as opposed

01:18:45.480 to with yeah so with a

01:18:47.060 minute we are la ilaha or

01:18:49.340 that there is no idol rather

01:18:50.800 than illallah except the

01:18:53.160 one indivisible whole of

01:18:54.760 infinite love infinite power

01:18:56.220 99 names whichever attribute

01:18:57.920 we choose they're all

01:18:59.160 serving the same purpose

01:19:00.120 the minute we cause that

01:19:01.420 disassociative state the

01:19:02.940 psychosis the separation from

01:19:05.360 that source we are in

01:19:07.180 in subject object when you're

01:19:08.460 in subject object when you're

01:19:08.480 in subject object everything

01:19:10.160 is for sale when everything's

01:19:12.480 for sale there is no reason

01:19:13.980 not to include children and

01:19:15.440 that's where we find

01:19:16.280 ourselves today now whether

01:19:18.160 it's the trafficking I raised

01:19:19.420 earlier which by the way is

01:19:21.040 not just I mean it's

01:19:22.820 everywhere you know the reason

01:19:24.580 I say is not just because

01:19:25.740 it's also in Kiev the war that

01:19:27.440 we are so yeah arrogantly

01:19:29.060 supporting you know so so the

01:19:31.920 problem is it's not just the

01:19:32.920 trafficking as you know Jordan

01:19:34.820 with the um with the uh this

01:19:39.040 decision that underage

01:19:40.420 prepubescent children have the

01:19:42.180 right to consent to their

01:19:43.380 genital mutilation without

01:19:44.980 parental involvement at all

01:19:46.780 again is a profane stance to

01:19:49.480 take

01:19:49.800 it's unforgivable

01:19:52.020 yeah and but that demonstrates

01:19:54.420 the subject object problem we

01:19:56.060 have commodified everything and

01:19:58.720 that can only that's only

01:20:00.080 possible because of separation

01:20:01.360 and I've come to these

01:20:02.840 conclusions Jordan not that I

01:20:04.740 don't don't get me wrong this

01:20:05.840 is the evolution of my own

01:20:07.520 thinking on this because uh it

01:20:09.420 would began with the Uyghur

01:20:10.640 genocide I was pre-cancellation

01:20:13.080 on LBC the Uyghur situation

01:20:16.300 shocked me to my core and I saw

01:20:19.540 a coming technocracy and how it

01:20:22.040 can enslave an entire people and

01:20:23.920 then when COVID hit I had

01:20:25.440 already because I don't know if

01:20:26.540 you were followed any of it and

01:20:27.540 forgive me again this is not to

01:20:28.620 boast in any way but I did a um

01:20:30.560 a four-day hunger strike uh for

01:20:33.120 the Uyghur Muslims you know

01:20:34.900 complaining of the Chinese

01:20:35.900 Communist Party's treatment of

01:20:37.080 their of and disrespect of the

01:20:38.800 heritage they could have been

01:20:39.660 Tibetan uh Buddhists they could

01:20:41.380 have been Chinese Christians um

01:20:43.480 and in many campaigns I've been

01:20:45.880 involved in they have been for

01:20:47.300 every not just Muslims right

01:20:48.380 that's why I'm making that

01:20:49.080 point um but it shocked me to

01:20:51.120 my core because I saw a coming

01:20:52.540 technocracy and what's possible

01:20:54.120 with the uh the end result of the

01:20:57.560 direction of travel that certain

01:20:58.760 people through their dialectical

01:20:59.900 materialism would like to take us

01:21:01.660 to and that's what I call the

01:21:03.100 technocratic tyranny yeah so that

01:21:05.320 when COVID by the time COVID came

01:21:07.000 I had already been shocked to a

01:21:09.440 point where I left my work I was on

01:21:10.960 a live show and I went on a four

01:21:12.800 day silent hunger strike risking being

01:21:15.240 cancelled at that point but

01:21:16.460 thankfully uh that isn't what got me

01:21:18.640 cancelled but by the time COVID came

01:21:20.280 I was already primed and my own uh my

01:21:23.720 own um experiences had started on a

01:21:27.400 new journey post uh not just from

01:21:30.280 post prison but post even everything

01:21:31.740 I've done in the last 10 years that

01:21:33.480 evolution had to carry on because I

01:21:35.560 had to look at myself and and see

01:21:37.560 what things have I participated in in

01:21:40.980 my own last 10 years of uh of

01:21:43.260 campaigning that could have perhaps

01:21:45.240 helped that techno technocratic train

01:21:48.140 along its tracks uh uh whether

01:21:50.780 unwittingly or not and I realized

01:21:52.640 yeah for example I've said things

01:21:54.420 like um you know these nations are

01:21:56.780 undemocratic uh they don't have

01:21:59.800 democracy inherent to their cultural

01:22:01.480 traditions which is probably true

01:22:03.120 yeah and I say these here referring any

01:22:05.640 non-democratic nation not singling

01:22:07.520 anyone out here probably true that

01:22:09.760 they didn't have but then I realized

01:22:11.260 that during COVID if the very people

01:22:13.700 that were peddling this myth that we

01:22:17.220 are in charge of our own destiny those

01:22:19.240 very people locked a roughly 70% of

01:22:23.420 the world into their homes until they

01:22:25.840 consented to a forced injection those

01:22:29.600 very same people could turn off your

01:22:31.660 money supply just because you are

01:22:34.740 protesting out on the streets of Ottawa

01:22:37.160 and I realize we've noticed that we've

01:22:39.740 noticed that yeah Canada they can do so

01:22:42.040 I realize Canadians think that's a good

01:22:44.220 idea by the way crazy right but I

01:22:46.680 realized I had been unwittingly

01:22:48.400 participating in the problem it's why

01:22:50.580 I'm explaining it in this way to say

01:22:51.900 I've also been on a journey in that

01:22:54.920 way to realize that I had been

01:22:56.200 participating in a problem because my

01:22:58.000 belief up until that point was that

01:23:00.100 there were certain countries in the

01:23:01.440 world that were under tyranny and that

01:23:04.180 others that were free and the truth is

01:23:07.460 there are certain countries in the world

01:23:09.020 that are under the illusion of freedom

01:23:12.120 and the rest of the world is under

01:23:13.560 tyranny and the illusion of freedom

01:23:16.220 is still okay comfortable but you

01:23:18.540 better bet that when they want to turn

01:23:20.340 off your food supply your money your

01:23:22.560 ability to trade and buy and sell

01:23:24.520 agenda 2030 Jordan have a look at it

01:23:27.940 their ideal is zero meat consumption

01:23:31.560 consumption I know I know yeah no cars

01:23:34.020 yeah I know I know so I realized that

01:23:37.400 I had but I had become an unwitting tool

01:23:40.020 for advocating for certain civilizations

01:23:42.120 values that I still hold dear to and by

01:23:44.320 the way I have sacrificed for and the

01:23:46.580 people I thought that were my allies in

01:23:48.440 advocating for those values are actually

01:23:50.640 my enemy but enemy in a I don't mean in a

01:23:53.400 warlike sense I mean intellectually you

01:23:55.140 know I my adversary to put to be

01:23:57.660 politer about the situation they don't

01:23:59.900 subscribe to these values whatsoever and

01:24:02.520 so then I realized what what was wrong in

01:24:04.880 me to be unable to see that and I

01:24:08.420 realized that I had also fallen prey to

01:24:10.360 this problem I was describing one half of

01:24:12.560 the dualism I referred to earlier I was in

01:24:14.640 the yin and not the yang or the yang not the

01:24:16.360 yin and not realizing if you zoom out there

01:24:18.280 there's an entire atom and if we understand

01:24:20.960 that we cannot but approach it with love and

01:24:23.620 and you mentioned you wanted to talk about

01:24:25.180 Yeshua but this is the same I want to

01:24:28.040 comment on your your circle on your sphere

01:24:30.760 metaphor okay so I read a I read a very

01:24:34.480 interesting description of God once and

01:24:37.760 this is derived from Jewish thought and I

01:24:40.200 believe I encountered this when I was

01:24:41.940 reading you so the proposition is God is a

01:24:46.340 circle whose circumference is nowhere and

01:24:49.860 whose center is everywhere yeah and that's

01:24:52.880 allied with this idea that each person is of

01:24:57.080 divine worth and made in the image of God it's

01:25:00.660 the same idea right is that each of us is a

01:25:03.920 center and that's a very strange thing

01:25:06.780 because we tend to think of things as

01:25:08.320 having a single center but whatever the

01:25:10.860 world is is complex enough so that it has a

01:25:13.560 multiplicity of centers and I do believe

01:25:16.020 that to be the case and I do believe that

01:25:18.100 each of us is for better or worse at that

01:25:21.540 center I also think that center by the way is

01:25:24.260 symbolized by the cross because the cross

01:25:26.860 is the center and the point of maximal

01:25:29.240 suffering so that's part of what that

01:25:31.780 symbol means psychologically and so now you

01:25:35.600 say that things go astray when we forget

01:25:38.100 that right you're using the metaphor of the

01:25:40.280 sphere and I think that's right things go

01:25:42.740 astray when we lose the notion that each

01:25:45.780 human being is a locus of divinity in the

01:25:48.940 most fundamental sense and that it's the

01:25:51.440 moral responsibility of each person to make

01:25:54.500 that divinity manifest to the degree that

01:25:56.640 they're possible and that the world is a

01:25:58.660 much lesser place when people don't do

01:26:01.180 that and it's incumbent on you to take

01:26:05.560 yourself apart to see where you're failing

01:26:08.000 to do that long before you worry about

01:26:10.660 whether someone else is failing to do

01:26:12.560 that yeah which doesn't mean that you

01:26:14.500 should you know lay yourself open to

01:26:16.400 idiot victimization on the tyranny front

01:26:18.780 but it does mean that you shouldn't put the

01:26:20.880 cart before the horse and it is very easy

01:26:23.400 to see the problem as out there in the world

01:26:27.320 which it also is instead of it being

01:26:29.760 something that has to be contended with

01:26:32.080 within the confines of your own heart and it

01:26:35.320 does start and this also ties back to our

01:26:37.680 discussion about what constitutes what's

01:26:39.860 sacred so in the in the tradition emerging

01:26:43.940 did you agree with my basic proposition on

01:26:46.100 that on that note there on the what there is a

01:26:48.480 sacred yes absolutely and that's absolutely

01:26:52.000 well in that that idea that that sacrality is

01:26:54.720 associated with the notion of diverse centers is

01:26:58.880 metaphorically and symbolically and historically

01:27:02.020 appropriate and then you might ask well what

01:27:04.380 does it mean to be such a center and I would

01:27:07.500 say and you've been stressing the idea of love for

01:27:10.480 example in this conversation and so here's a here's

01:27:13.400 a couple of definitions of love all right so one

01:27:17.040 would be the the commitment to the the commitment to

01:27:23.240 the proposition that it would be better if everything

01:27:25.400 flourished so that's the notion of life more abundant

01:27:28.320 and that's the anti the opposite of an

01:27:31.120 anti-natalist approach so the the the the sacred

01:27:37.040 approach that insists upon the centrality of each

01:27:40.320 individual is predicated on the idea that existence

01:27:42.840 itself is fundamentally good if existence is

01:27:46.960 operating according to the principles of love and

01:27:49.620 according to the principles of truth so you see in

01:27:52.200 the Genesis story for example God uses the divine

01:27:55.560 word to create order out of chaos and the divine

01:28:00.120 word is honest but also devoted towards love and

01:28:03.240 the idea is that words spoken in that spirit bring

01:28:06.800 about the order that is good and transmute the cosmos as

01:28:10.880 a consequence and that each of us is doing that

01:28:13.600 wittingly or unwittingly worse or better with every word

01:28:17.440 we speak and that's partly why the idea of the logos which

01:28:21.040 is the divine word is so central particularly to Christian

01:28:24.000 thought but obviously also to Islamic and Jewish thought

01:28:28.320 because there's a tremendous stress laid on the

01:28:31.200 sacrality of the word but this is why it's because the word spoken properly

01:28:37.280 produces a cosmos that's habitable that's habitable and good and that's the

01:28:42.880 fundamental sacred principle and I think it's I think it's just true it's it's true

01:28:48.400 metaphorically traditionally it's true scientifically it's true at every

01:28:53.200 possible level of analysis and then it's incumbent on people to act in

01:28:57.040 accordance with that and it's incumbent on our political and economic

01:29:02.000 organizations to organize themselves in what would you say in a manner that's

01:29:06.720 commensurate with that individual sacrality that that's also the source of our

01:29:11.840 idea of individual right it's not state it's not state granted which is

01:29:17.280 something insisted upon by enlightenment rationalists

01:29:20.560 precisely and and if I may if we arrive at that and what you've just echoed is

01:29:24.800 also Ibn Arabi so in the uh in the Islamic mystical tradition

01:29:28.880 Ibn Arabi's ideas of uh uh or the oneness of being

01:29:33.920 um is a similar approach to this and if we if we can tap into that one thing we

01:29:38.720 understand as again I agree with you is that everyone if everyone is sacred

01:29:42.560 what we've got a problem with is is when we invent technology

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01:31:01.200 we are uh engaging in that process of the separation and every time a civilizational uh steering uh

01:31:12.240 intervention technological intervention is is created it takes us further along that path of

01:31:17.200 separation because we are appropriating the divine in the thing we make it's a reflection of it it's

01:31:24.720 only ever you know where the tv is i looked at my eye and thought how do i copy it yeah uh so whenever we

01:31:31.040 do that um uh make a record of the human experience we're separating now that doesn't mean again that we're

01:31:38.720 luddites but if we acknowledge this if we're cognizant of this behavior then we understand that not only

01:31:44.800 must we constantly nourish that connection to the source so that it guides that technological uh

01:31:52.560 invention as it comes about and i could apply the same the written word what can be said about the

01:31:58.320 written word i did say on rogan about the printing press and i believe again what i did say that we're in

01:32:03.920 that moment again now with the advent of um uh the big tech that's the tower of babel problem so what

01:32:11.840 happens immediately after the flood in the genesis narrative is the emergence of the tower of babel

01:32:17.840 as a let's call it you can think about it as a as an antidote to the flood too much chaos what will

01:32:24.000 we do well we'll build a a tower of technological artifacts that stretches to the sky and then we won't

01:32:32.880 need god right and so it isn't the problem the tower isn't the problem it's the presumption of

01:32:39.040 the tower builders and the tower inhabitants that the tower now supplants the transcendent and that's

01:32:45.280 the problem let's say of the communist doctrine which is fundamentally materialistic it's like

01:32:49.840 and that's why it becomes totalitarian that's its attempt to supplant what's transcendent and the

01:32:55.680 consequence of that so interestingly in the tower of babel story is that the presumptuous

01:33:00.800 technocrats and bureaucrats and perhaps scientists and technologists build the tower of babel

01:33:07.040 as an alternative to the proper divine uh uh what would you call it uh liana between heaven and earth

01:33:15.220 and then it takes on this nightmarish quality and the end consequence of that majeet is that no one can

01:33:21.780 speak to each other anymore is that the most fundamental elements of communication become fragmented to the

01:33:27.200 point where no communication is possible because everything truly sacred that would ground

01:33:32.160 communication has now been dispensed with and then we're in the situation where we ask well what is

01:33:37.440 a woman for example yeah so you know exactly what you've just said there is exactly what i've been

01:33:42.980 trying to say as well so we're on the same page on all of this and so extending that tech analogy

01:33:48.560 if we're not constantly nourishing that connection to the source in other words the with rather than

01:33:54.880 the without yeah so uh if we're not constantly aware of this danger and it happened with the

01:34:00.840 printing press it happened with the written word it's now happening we're in the moment i believe

01:34:04.100 where big tech is doing that to us it's creating that tower of babel division separation in the name

01:34:09.080 of unity in the name of unity the uh we're encouraging homogenization with absurdly no foundation upon which

01:34:17.660 we we can ever agree upon for consensus uh so right it's a very strange situation we're finding

01:34:23.240 ourselves in that if if we understand what that does we understand that institutions and systems

01:34:29.860 have inherent within them the tendency to create and further that separation and disconnect or psychosis or

01:34:37.120 or disassociative experience institutions and systems do that by definition which is why the

01:34:43.140 worst example of it is the communist state uh but but but if we understand that then we understand

01:34:48.260 another thing another great insight i believe uh and that is that the void that is created by the

01:34:54.520 invention of this tech which leads to becoming incorporated in systems and institutions the void that is

01:34:59.660 created uh between the dot on the sphere in the sphere itself in other words in recognizing that

01:35:06.460 indivisible whole while also recognizing that we're each a point yeah we're a wavelength we're a

01:35:10.640 particle so that gap between being a wavelength and a particle being a dot on the sphere and being the

01:35:15.600 sphere itself the the institutions are the thing that are widening that gap systems are i call it the

01:35:20.860 machine this is why yeshua is important because yeshua comes with love and one thing again that we have

01:35:27.820 in common by the way is the understanding of the abiding importance of yeshua and yeshua's return

01:35:32.600 why because symbolically what does that mean is the void and by we by we do you mean muslims and

01:35:40.220 christians in yes yes yes here here i'm talking to you in the in the singular here the we here is

01:35:45.640 yeah but yeah but metaphorically of course what it means for the broader conversation

01:35:49.440 is that void that is created there when we have systems adopting new tech and the separation that

01:35:56.040 creates between the human and the machine that void has to be filled with love it's the only way we can

01:36:02.300 go forward and this is the the sacred version of it as opposed to the profane version of it but if we

01:36:07.100 take out that love if we take out the sacred connection you will end up with the profane you

01:36:11.340 will end up with this technocratic tyranny we're in it we see it coming yeah yeah it's already above us

01:36:16.180 it's over us and the uh uh the the the sense for human dignity respect for the individual's choices

01:36:23.060 the the sacredness of the individual is being erased yeah and that's what the covid mandate period

01:36:28.940 demonstrated it's what the 15 minute cities are demonstrating oxford in in the united kingdom

01:36:33.640 the famous oxford city has already passed this the only to my knowledge the only city in the world

01:36:39.220 that actually proposed it as a council and then decided to backtrack and then promise they would never

01:36:44.620 enforce it was ironically the uh my the town i was it's a city now it's a town then the town i was

01:36:50.020 born in south end on sea in essex uh which recently announced it would permanently no longer consider

01:36:55.040 adopting this 15 minute city oh good other than yep other than the city of south end in essex

01:37:00.820 all other cities are adopting this and so we're seeing uh the uh encroachment of this technocratic

01:37:06.660 tyranny because i believe we have this separation is going to become exacerbated unless we remember our

01:37:12.520 connection to the source and in that vein it's again why i believe that otherizing language

01:37:17.920 in this moment we're in is so we have to be so careful about it because it's ready to blow jordan

01:37:24.380 yeah across the world right you look at modi in india you look at netanyahu and israel you look at the

01:37:29.620 covid mandates in the west you look at hamas you look at the whole world is ready to blow the

01:37:34.700 polarization has got to iran which you and i again uh with our posts online uh you know we we interacted on

01:37:41.720 the topic of iran the whole world is the tectonic plates have shifted to a point where some shocks

01:37:47.840 are coming our way and uh we're at a crossroads and in the only way we're going to get through this in

01:37:53.620 a way i believe ultimately we will get through it by the way but i i cannot but advocate uh or do

01:37:59.140 perform the role that i believe i'm here for which is to advocate that we get through this in a uh in a

01:38:03.900 sacred way in a way that is not profane in a way that uh protects the sanctity of the human being

01:38:08.900 uh but i but we we uh all of us who believe in that need allies in that task because we're in a

01:38:15.260 i believe we're at a crossroads it's a very very sensitive moment we're in and i don't believe

01:38:19.520 most of our colleagues appreciate the moment we're in most of them as the blues singers from the

01:38:25.160 american south know well you meet the devil at the crossroads so precisely and and you know there's

01:38:30.660 friends of ours that we have in common that i'm you know i believe have failed they've missed this

01:38:35.480 completely well you know we we keep talking all of us in the hopes that we get smarter as we do so

01:38:42.340 and we'll hope we manage that and maybe we manage that together to some degree today i'm we're out of

01:38:47.660 time on the youtube front here and that's a pretty good place to end even though obviously we could

01:38:52.420 keep talking endlessly which is pretty much what both you and i do and so i hope we get a chance to

01:38:57.680 pick this up again in the not ridiculously distant future i'm coming to the uk in april maybe we could

01:39:04.760 meet then um i've also started an enterprise called the alliance for responsible citizenship

01:39:10.840 that's an attempt to provide something like an alternative to this tower of babel horror that

01:39:16.880 seems to be descending upon us and in any case for everyone who's watching and listening on the youtube

01:39:22.740 platform and its associated channels thank you very much for your time and attention and to the

01:39:27.840 dailywire plus for facilitating this conversation and setting it up technically that's much appreciated to

01:39:33.140 the film crew here in in seattle thanks for your time and efforts and majid everyone i'm going to

01:39:39.780 continue talking to majid for another half an hour on the dailywire plus platform and we'll do something

01:39:44.280 more autobiographical uh delving into majid's history and the manner in which his interests and

01:39:52.600 problems have made themselves manifest in his life and so if you're interested in that head over to

01:39:57.440 the dailywire plus side of things and thank you very much majid it was very good talking to you and

01:40:02.360 i think we got some distance today so hooray for that thank you and you're always welcome uh to london

01:40:09.300 anytime you come and tammy as well we've met obviously on many an occasion i'm yet to meet mikaela but

01:40:14.360 you're always welcome and uh our door is always open for you and uh you're also always welcome to appear on

01:40:19.960 any of the platforms we have um at any time of your choosing and comfort whenever you are uh ready or not

01:40:25.660 it's up to you but our door remains open for you so thank you very much jordan great man appreciate

01:40:30.160 the invitation all right well thank you all very much and uh ciao majid hello everyone i would

01:40:37.340 encourage you to continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com

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337. In Response to Netanyahu ｜ Maajid Nawaz

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