The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 340. Dutch Farmers： Canaries in the Globalist Coal Mine

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00:00:57.420 Hello everyone. I'm pleased today to have the opportunity to have a discussion with Michael Yawn, who's one of the world's great roving journalists.

00:01:18.140 He's been in all the hell holes around the world, maybe not all of them, but a good proportion of them over the last few decades.

00:01:23.520 And he's written for many of the major news outlets across the world.

00:01:26.860 At the moment, he's in the Netherlands covering the Dutch farmers' protest, among other things.

00:01:33.500 He's accompanied by Eva Vlardinger-Brook, who is a political figure in Europe, in the Netherlands.

00:01:41.900 And they've been both attending the Dutch farmer protests.

00:01:45.520 And I wanted to get them together today to talk about, well, why anyone should care about the fact that Dutch farmers are protesting,

00:01:53.580 how many of them are protesting, what it means, and what the broader issues are at stake.

00:02:00.940 Because what's happening in the Netherlands is a reflection of a socio-political struggle that's going on at a very deep level

00:02:09.500 between worldviews that are truly in opposition.

00:02:13.100 And the Dutch farmer protest, in my estimation, is a, what would you say,

00:02:18.020 it's a microcosm of a much larger battle that's raging and will continue to rage for the next while.

00:02:25.140 So, Michael, maybe let's start with you.

00:02:28.200 How long have you been in the Netherlands now, in this span of time?

00:02:32.640 Well, during this trip in particular, I've been back for about one week.

00:02:35.760 As you know, we were together, you and I were together here last year, and I came on your podcast last year.

00:02:41.480 I was down in Mexico watching the migration, if you want to call it that, into Texas.

00:02:47.960 And then I saw that the Dutch farmers were blocking the streets in Netherlands.

00:02:52.700 And having lived in Europe for more than six years, I realized that was significant.

00:02:57.360 So I jumped on an airplane, I left Mexico, came straight here to the Netherlands,

00:03:01.920 and went out to the first farmers I could find blocking streets.

00:03:05.140 And I said, why are you blocking the streets?

00:03:07.820 And so, because, you know, in every country that I go to around the world,

00:03:11.220 I've spent more than half of my life traveling around the world to places like Afghanistan and Iraq and India.

00:03:17.120 And I go straight to the farmers, because that's where you get one of the pulses, right?

00:03:21.160 And I said, what's going wrong here?

00:03:22.980 And they started telling me and giving me an earful.

00:03:25.360 And I realized we have a significant problem.

00:03:27.840 And as you know, I've written three books on, unfortunately, they're only in Japanese language.

00:03:32.480 I wrote them in English, but they're about information war, right?

00:03:36.280 So I study information war.

00:03:38.780 As you know, information war is the PhD level of warfare.

00:03:41.620 All the kinetics, which I did for years in various wars, Iraq, Afghanistan, whatever,

00:03:46.320 that's certainly very important, especially when you're in it.

00:03:50.260 But the PhD level of warfare is information war.

00:03:52.860 And I realized that the Dutch were at an epicenter of the information war, as are the Japanese.

00:03:58.080 That's why I wrote those three books, warning the Japanese that they are being targeted by the CCP,

00:04:03.620 the Chinese Communist Party, in an information campaign that's designed to split the Koreans

00:04:08.520 and the Japanese and the Americans apart.

00:04:11.640 It's now, I wrote those, I started writing those books in 2014.

00:04:14.900 And in 2019 and 20, actually, the split was relatively complete with the Japanese and the Koreans,

00:04:22.820 all based on information war.

00:04:24.220 I'll turn back to the information war issue, the legacy media coverage of what's happening

00:04:28.800 on the Dutch farmer protest front, because that's relevant to the information war.

00:04:34.660 But let's turn to Eva for a moment.

00:04:36.940 Eva, do you want to just explain to people who you are and what you do and how long you've been doing it,

00:04:42.180 and then why you're interested in the Dutch farmers' protest and how you got tangled up

00:04:45.980 with such a nefarious character as Michael?

00:04:49.040 Well, I'm Dutch, so let's start there.

00:04:51.240 So I was born and raised here, and that's partly why I'm so interested in the cause of the Dutch farmers.

00:04:57.580 So I've been able to follow what has been happening to them for years now,

00:05:01.680 because it's important for people to know that even though, you know,

00:05:04.660 the protests of last summer and the protests that are happening now are being televised quite widely,

00:05:09.880 this is a fight that has been going on for years.

00:05:12.960 You know, our government is really fighting a war of attrition against our farmers.

00:05:16.880 So that is one.

00:05:18.580 Personally, I have a background in law.

00:05:20.540 I'm a legal philosopher, and my academic time wasn't that long.

00:05:26.180 My university decided to kick me out of my PhD program, basically,

00:05:29.520 because I was deemed too controversial, politically speaking.

00:05:33.000 So I decided to turn the other way, and I have been focusing on international media

00:05:38.400 and making videos and putting out my content in English, mostly, and in German now.

00:05:44.320 But so I'm mostly focused on the international market.

00:05:47.560 I'm a conservative commentator, I could say.

00:05:50.520 And I've met Michael.

00:05:51.760 We met in person yesterday, actually, for the first time.

00:05:54.820 But I've seen Michael's work online, and I admire him immensely.

00:05:59.140 So I'm very happy to meet him now, finally, and talk to him.

00:06:02.520 Jordan, Ava was leading the way yesterday,

00:06:06.160 and there was some fear for some people attending the protests.

00:06:10.500 In fact, one of the opposition parties, the BB Better Party, Build Back Better,

00:06:14.880 it's the, how do you say it in Dutch?

00:06:16.540 Borenbefokeringbewegung, right?

00:06:20.140 Borenbefokeringbewegung, yeah.

00:06:21.820 It's supposed to mean citizen-farmers movement.

00:06:24.440 The leader of that, Caroline Vander Plaas, she was afraid to attend the protests yesterday,

00:06:30.380 afraid for her safety, she said.

00:06:32.120 So what did Ava do?

00:06:33.260 She took the front tractor and was the first one to arrive in a tractor yesterday.

00:06:38.980 So that was pretty good leadership on your part.

00:06:42.100 It got everybody psyched up.

00:06:43.980 So Ava, are you, you're primarily focusing on political commentary.

00:06:48.520 Gary, do you have any official or traditional political position,

00:06:53.180 or are you functioning primarily as an investigative journalist and commentator?

00:06:57.780 No, I function independently from any political party at the very moment, at this very moment.

00:07:03.040 I have been involved in Dutch politics briefly, in parliamentary politics,

00:07:07.340 but that really wasn't for me.

00:07:09.280 I don't want to be in that system again,

00:07:11.580 and I really enjoy my newfound freedom of being able to say exactly what I think

00:07:16.280 and what I want to say to the world.

00:07:18.500 So I'm planning on keeping it this way.

00:07:21.740 Okay, so do you want to outline for the people who are watching what,

00:07:25.520 you said that the battle, so to speak, between the Dutch farmers

00:07:29.220 and the Dutch government has been going on for quite a long time.

00:07:33.560 Now, is it reasonable to construe it as a battle between the Dutch farmers and the Dutch government,

00:07:38.260 or is it a faction of farmers and a faction of the government?

00:07:42.260 Like, I'd like to know how widespread the discontent among Dutch farmers is

00:07:47.420 and whether there is a fracture within the farming community itself.

00:07:51.680 And then the same thing obtains, obviously, at the political level.

00:07:54.920 These things are seldom monolithic.

00:07:57.820 So let's start with the farmers.

00:08:00.440 What percentage of farmers are upset?

00:08:04.000 What percentage are complaining, and why are they upset?

00:08:06.400 Okay, yeah, I think that there is not one Dutch farmer right now

00:08:10.640 that is happy with the Dutch government, the current Dutch cabinet.

00:08:15.240 So that's important to note.

00:08:16.580 It is definitely a fight from the Dutch farmers against the government

00:08:20.620 or the other way around, I should rather say.

00:08:22.920 Everybody is upset, and of course, there are differences within the farmers.

00:08:27.820 There are people, I would say the most important split between the farmers that exist right now

00:08:33.340 is the group of farmers that is willing to compromise, that is willing to talk to the government

00:08:38.280 and say, okay, we'll still negotiate, and the group that is completely done with that.

00:08:43.300 So I think the most important split between those two groups is the group that accepts the narrative

00:08:49.280 of the idea that there is a nitrogen crisis, so to say,

00:08:53.120 and the group that says, no, there isn't, there is no nitrogen crisis,

00:08:56.880 we have done everything that you have asked of us for the past, I don't know,

00:09:00.940 at least three years now in terms of reorganizing our businesses,

00:09:05.140 doing everything that you asked of us, and you are still coming after us, and we are done.

00:09:09.600 So I think that is probably ideologically also the most important question in this war

00:09:16.280 that the government is waging against our farmers.

00:09:18.460 Do you still believe the narrative that the government presents you with, or do you not?

00:09:24.000 Okay, so let's go in two directions there.

00:09:26.720 You talked about a nitrogen crisis, so we should outline what constitutes the government narrative

00:09:31.560 on the nitrogen crisis side, and you also mentioned that a substantial proportion of the farmers

00:09:36.840 are now done with negotiating.

00:09:39.080 They feel that they've been pushed to the wall, that they've done everything they possibly could,

00:09:42.720 and that there's nothing left but the opportunity to say no.

00:09:47.940 I mean, one of the things that struck me about the Dutch farmers' protest immediately

00:09:52.300 was that I know farmers, and I know that modern farmers are very sophisticated,

00:09:56.940 and they're also very hardworking, and they don't have time to muck around.

00:10:01.000 And the machinery, for example, that they're using, the tractors and so forth,

00:10:05.100 to bring to the protests is extremely expensive machinery,

00:10:10.120 and it's not generally within the easy means of a farmer to put their machinery to any other use

00:10:17.660 than productive use on the farm.

00:10:19.280 And I know Dutch farmers are hyperproductive, maybe the best in the world,

00:10:22.980 or certainly among the best.

00:10:24.160 And so my sense was that if the Dutch farmers are upset, a substantial proportion of them,

00:10:29.220 they're like a canary in the coal mine.

00:10:30.920 There's probably something to be upset about.

00:10:32.480 But what percentage of the Dutch farmers do you think are in a situation

00:10:37.080 where they're seriously done with negotiation?

00:10:39.740 And then what does it mean for people in a peaceful polity to be done with negotiation?

00:10:46.380 Right.

00:10:46.960 Well, let's talk about what our government wants to do.

00:10:50.720 So with this nitrogen crisis that they say we now have,

00:10:54.140 they're saying that they need to reduce nitrogen emissions.

00:10:56.860 And what that comes down to is that 50% of the Dutch farmers will have to go by the year of 2030.

00:11:05.080 Those are their goals.

00:11:06.400 So imagine, you know, if 50% of the farmers have to go,

00:11:09.560 then hopefully you'd think that 50% of all those farmers in our country are done with our government.

00:11:15.400 I think that would be a fair estimate, so to say.

00:11:19.160 Okay, okay.

00:11:20.060 And that means that at least 30% of the livestock will have to be abolished as well.

00:11:25.760 And our government has been, you know, like I said, it's been a war of attrition.

00:11:30.600 They've been doing negotiations for all these years, going back and forth,

00:11:35.140 and over the last couple of months even more so.

00:11:38.420 But what you can really see is the strategy of our government is always the same.

00:11:42.760 They say, oh, we'll negotiate with you.

00:11:44.620 You know, they sit down with a group of farmers that is maybe a bit more moderate group,

00:11:49.360 you know, rather than the people that go out to these rallies, for example, that we were at yesterday.

00:11:54.340 And then they go back to the boardroom.

00:11:57.680 They take a couple of extra months, you know.

00:11:59.840 Nobody knows really what's going on.

00:12:01.740 And then they come back with a new report.

00:12:03.900 And it says exactly the same thing, but with different words,

00:12:06.840 and usually phrased a little bit nicer, you know.

00:12:09.700 But if you really read what it says, nothing ever changes.

00:12:12.500 Actually, the last report that came out was a report that doubled down.

00:12:16.000 So, in the last report, what they said, they used words that confuse the population.

00:12:21.160 They used a word saying that the peak polluters have to go.

00:12:25.860 So, 600 peak polluters, which would include some other, you know, businesses,

00:12:31.480 not just farmers, but some other businesses as well, predominantly farmers though,

00:12:35.360 600 of them will have to go in the next year.

00:12:37.540 See?

00:12:38.960 So, you know, we go from cutting 50% by 2030 to now, oh, by the way,

00:12:44.600 600 peak polluters have to be gone in the next year.

00:12:48.540 And we're not doing that with expropriation.

00:12:50.920 No, it all has to be on a voluntary basis.

00:12:54.060 But, you know, the reality of the matter is that nothing about this is voluntary.

00:12:59.000 It's a war of attrition.

00:13:00.040 They've been pushing these farmers to despair.

00:13:01.940 You know, we've had so many cases of farmers who've committed suicide already.

00:13:06.040 These people are being tormented by our government.

00:13:09.440 And then if they end up selling at the very end because their license isn't renewed,

00:13:13.680 for example, then our government can still say that it was voluntary.

00:13:17.100 But we all know that nothing about this, in fact, is voluntary.

00:13:22.160 Okay.

00:13:22.840 So, my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the part of the reason that the Dutch

00:13:28.920 government is down the necks, on the necks, let's say, of the farmers is because

00:13:34.640 environmentalist activists have taken the Dutch government to court to force them to comply

00:13:40.580 with European Union top-down environmental apocalypse-oriented European Union regulations

00:13:49.840 that are aimed at reducing, let's say, carbon output, but also reducing other forms of pollution.

00:13:56.000 Now, nitrogen pollution can be a problem if excess fertilizer enters waterways and so forth.

00:14:01.460 It can cause algal blooms.

00:14:03.500 And obviously, it's the case that we want to pollute the least amount possible well-growing

00:14:07.980 food.

00:14:09.160 So, but why do you think, like, first of all, have I got that story right?

00:14:13.260 Have the Dutch, has the Dutch government itself been cornered by the courts?

00:14:18.060 And is that a consequence of European Union pressure?

00:14:20.640 I think that they are very happy that that happened, though.

00:14:23.600 And they go further than what the European Union has told them to do.

00:14:27.600 So, the Dutch government isn't innocent in this case.

00:14:30.280 You know, they're not completely just cornered by the courts.

00:14:33.000 They have gone further than what Brussels has told them to do.

00:14:36.600 So, I think that is very important because it shows you their true intent.

00:14:40.240 And I think that the true intent that the government has is to get rid of our farmers.

00:14:45.340 They want the land because they need the land.

00:14:47.680 And I'm sure we'll get to that in a bit.

00:14:49.920 But it's definitely, I would say that there's definitely intent here.

00:14:53.500 And it goes further than just being cornered by courts.

00:14:58.420 They've been cornered by the courts.

00:15:00.700 But they're perfectly happy with that cornering.

00:15:02.940 And they're willing to take it farther.

00:15:05.040 So, why does the EU and the courts and the environmentalists and the government have

00:15:11.400 their panties in a knot, so to speak, about nitrogen per se?

00:15:14.940 Like, what's the problem exactly that they're trying to address here?

00:15:18.240 And why do they think that demolishing the farming industry is going to solve that problem?

00:15:22.260 What's their goal?

00:15:23.640 Like, if you had to frame it positively, what would their goal be?

00:15:26.800 Well, the story is that they want to preserve nature.

00:15:30.900 So, there are designated areas in the Netherlands that are natural reserves, so to say.

00:15:36.380 And they have decided, it's a political decision, that that landscape cannot change.

00:15:41.600 So, it has to remain the same.

00:15:43.680 It has to remain the same as it was, for example, 25 years ago.

00:15:47.120 So, that means that certain sand dunes, for example, can't have vegetation or certain plants

00:15:53.460 can't grow there.

00:15:54.320 It needs to look exactly the same.

00:15:56.160 So, they say that that is to protect nature.

00:15:59.160 But it's a political choice of how you want your country to look, how you want, you know,

00:16:03.960 the landscape, the countryside to look.

00:16:06.320 So, to me, that shows you that...

00:16:08.460 Okay, so the start of this is real.

00:16:10.220 Yeah, well, so they're pushing the pristine nature narrative.

00:16:13.940 Yes.

00:16:14.700 Fundamentally.

00:16:15.340 How many farmers do you think are protesting at the moment, actively protesting, in terms

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00:17:59.920 I would think that's hard to say.

00:18:01.460 I will look at Michael for that as well.

00:18:03.460 Because like I said, we have 50,000 farms.

00:18:06.240 And it's definitely not, I wouldn't say it's the majority.

00:18:08.940 Because a lot of people have already lost a fair bit of hope.

00:18:12.660 So what do you think, Michael?

00:18:14.100 How many farmers do you think are currently protesting?

00:18:18.500 Physically protesting?

00:18:19.520 Keeping in mind, I do these things around the world.

00:18:22.260 So most of the people will be the support base that never go to a protest.

00:18:26.860 So your support base is always difficult to measure, actually.

00:18:29.940 But everybody, all the farmers that I speak with now, Ava just mentioned sort of apathy

00:18:36.360 may have set in or resignation that they may not be able to defeat this government.

00:18:42.660 Actually, if we're talking about nitrogen, we're talking about the wrong level, by the way.

00:18:46.520 Where if we're talking about the details of this, we're already losing.

00:18:49.920 Because this is not about schtickstoffe, as they call it here, nitrogen.

00:18:52.940 This is about taking those farms and making tri-state city.

00:18:56.540 Tri-state city is this giant city.

00:18:58.800 You can see the maps.

00:18:59.600 You and I have talked about it before when you were here, Jordan.

00:19:02.420 Tri-state city is called tri-state city because it will take most or all of the Netherlands,

00:19:07.040 part of Belgium and part of Germany, into this mega smart city.

00:19:10.700 Basically a control city.

00:19:12.000 And it happens to end at Rotterdam, which is at the end of the railhead, all the way from Shanghai.

00:19:17.520 So the railway, all the way from Shanghai, China, all the way across Asia, will go right

00:19:21.700 through the middle of tri-state city and will be sitting in tri-state city right now.

00:19:25.720 So you've got to take that farmland.

00:19:27.500 If we go back in history and we look what Stalin did in the Ukraine, 32 and 33 in the Holodomor,

00:19:35.440 one of the things that the main people that he targeted were the kulaks, the farmers, right?

00:19:40.120 So he did an information campaign.

00:19:42.080 This is all about information war.

00:19:43.680 He targeted the kulaks, labeled the kulaks.

00:19:46.880 Labeling somebody a kulak was like, in a sense, labeling them Jewish or Polish in different

00:19:51.460 eras, right?

00:19:52.520 Or similar, same era, actually.

00:19:54.500 But labeling people kulaks, then using the information war, convinced people that all

00:19:59.780 their problems were the result of the kulaks.

00:20:01.940 And if you just take their farms, your problems will go away.

00:20:05.440 So basically did a replacement strategy, right?

00:20:07.760 And so people came in, killed the kulaks, and took their farms and had a massive famine,

00:20:12.920 right?

00:20:13.160 Because the ability to farm—I talked with a fisherman yesterday at the protest.

00:20:17.960 His family has been fishing since the 1400s, as far back as he can track it, right?

00:20:22.860 This is—they—fishing and farming is what they know how to do, right?

00:20:26.600 So when you do these replacement strategies, for instance, that Mao did, of course, Mao studied

00:20:30.980 Stalin, you've got to get rid of the farmers.

00:20:33.820 So it's not about—it's not just about—it has nothing to do with nitrogen.

00:20:37.540 That's completely irrelevant.

00:20:39.020 Again, if we're talking nitrogen, we're losing.

00:20:41.180 Now, on a bigger picture, you know that I study migration deeply.

00:20:45.200 Hop, the human osmotic pressure.

00:20:46.940 The hop—the human osmotic pressure is the push and pull of the migration.

00:20:50.560 I just left Darien.

00:20:51.760 I just left the Darien gap between Panama and Colombia again.

00:20:55.920 That's why I dressed in these funny clothes.

00:20:57.540 And so I was just down there watching Chinese come through in large numbers, mostly military-age males.

00:21:03.640 The Darien gap is that area between Colombia and South America—between Colombia and Panama,

00:21:08.700 where people can—it's an hourglass from Africa and Asia and South America through Panama up to the United States.

00:21:16.120 So we have about 1,000 people a day coming through there right now from about 140 countries.

00:21:21.340 Now, back to where—let's bring this back to Netherlands.

00:21:24.060 There's a clear replacement strategy going on.

00:21:26.400 That's what Stalin did with the Baltimore, right?

00:21:29.000 Replacing the Kulaks.

00:21:30.300 That's what Mao did.

00:21:31.340 That's what Pol Pot did.

00:21:32.440 That's what so many other people—that's what they're working on now in South Africa and have done in other African countries, right?

00:21:38.400 They're doing—right now, people are coming in from about 140 countries just through the Darien gap.

00:21:43.600 Here in Netherlands—or let's go over to Luxembourg, a neighbor of Netherlands.

00:21:47.040 I was there last year, and approximately half of the country now is actually migrants.

00:21:51.360 You can see that on their official website.

00:21:53.260 Now, the migrants who are coming in are not monocultural.

00:21:56.940 It's not just Afghans or Pakistanis or Yemenis or something like that.

00:22:00.860 So the divide and conquer is already done in that regard.

00:22:04.040 For instance, one pig farmer that I was with in Netherlands last week, I asked if he's hiring any migrants.

00:22:10.600 He said, yes, he had a bunch of Afghans who were great workers, he said, but then they suddenly got their residence cards to live in Netherlands, and now they're getting paid to stay here, so they had to quit their work, right?

00:22:22.000 He grows pigs and pears and Christmas trees.

00:22:24.860 So then he hired some other people from Africa and other countries, Ukraine and other places.

00:22:30.660 But he hires people from different countries that are migrants, right?

00:22:34.800 But now they're already prepping, and Ava can talk more about this.

00:22:39.200 They're prepping the Dutch mind, and they're doing the same in Finland and other places, to start taking in migrants into your homes.

00:22:46.940 They're not doing it yet.

00:22:47.960 They're not ordering it.

00:22:49.000 But Ava can talk more about this.

00:22:51.620 There is a law in the Dutch books that in a case of emergency, you'll have to take people into your homes, right?

00:22:56.680 And they're prepping this now in the news cycles.

00:22:59.800 Like, you know, they're not doing it, but just to put that in the back of your mind, one lady that lives in a big farmhouse after her family is gone and her husband has died, she doesn't need that big farmhouse.

00:23:09.440 She can bring in some Somalis to live with her, right?

00:23:12.300 They're prepping a replacement strategy.

00:23:14.320 It's right in your face.

00:23:15.700 It's right in your grill.

00:23:16.640 I was down in Morocco last year watching the Moroccan government push people to Suta and Melilla, which are two Spanish cities that are in Morocco.

00:23:26.680 And I was down in Greece watching the Turks push them over the border into Greece.

00:23:31.520 I was up in Lithuania watching Belarus.

00:23:33.440 That's when I started warning that something was about to happen.

00:23:36.640 When we saw the Belarusians pushing migrants, they tried to push them into Poland.

00:23:41.940 Poland did not allow it, of course.

00:23:43.760 And then Lithuania allowed some in.

00:23:45.480 I was up there for five weeks.

00:23:46.720 The Lithuanians gave me complete access to their camps because I know people in the Lithuanian army because I was with them in Afghanistan.

00:23:53.760 So they gave me complete access to the camps and to the border and to their intelligence people and their army and whatnot.

00:24:00.680 And this was a clear weaponization of migration.

00:24:03.920 It's weaponization of migration.

00:24:05.480 This has gone on since forever.

00:24:07.320 Again, that's what's started.

00:24:08.140 So what's the goal?

00:24:09.860 Okay, so Michael, now you've opened up like 15 different cans of worms.

00:24:14.720 So let me walk through a couple of them.

00:24:16.400 I have a specific question for you and for Eva.

00:24:19.920 First of all, if the Dutch government manages to eliminate 50% of farmers and 30% of livestock by 2030, which is pretty much tomorrow,

00:24:30.200 why do they think that the entire infrastructure that supports the agricultural industry in the Netherlands will survive?

00:24:37.920 Because there's obviously a whole supply chain that's dependent on the Dutch farmer production.

00:24:43.760 And they're going to be running on very tight margins.

00:24:46.060 And that would include grocery stores and food processing plants and all of that.

00:24:50.240 And if they lose 50% of their inputs, well, they're going to collapse.

00:24:54.260 There's not going to be half of them left.

00:24:55.780 There's going to be zero of them left.

00:24:58.020 And so is that being taken into account in the government plans?

00:25:01.740 And then what does the Dutch government make of the fact that, well, you know, Dutch people need food and maybe they need local food.

00:25:10.960 And there's every bit of evidence to assume that the Dutch farmers can provide food much more efficiently and with much less pollution than farmers anywhere else because food's going to have to be imported.

00:25:21.500 Like, is there a vision at all on the government side for what's going to happen when the entire food supply infrastructure is stressed and threatened by the lack of the farmers and the lack of the livestock?

00:25:31.740 And are they giving no credence whatsoever to the necessity for food security?

00:25:37.000 It's very weird in Holland since it had a bloody famine just after World War II.

00:25:43.060 So what's going on in the food provision front?

00:25:45.660 Eva, maybe you could take it up for a second and then I'll return to some of Michael's comments.

00:25:50.540 Yeah, I don't think they care about that.

00:25:52.420 And that's exactly the problem.

00:25:53.640 So it shows you what their true agenda behind all of this is.

00:25:56.300 And as Michael said, that is an agenda of control.

00:25:58.240 So I think the Dutch farmers are being targeted for two reasons.

00:26:02.420 One of them being that our farmers, like you said, they're so effective.

00:26:06.700 You know, they're such good.

00:26:08.520 We're the second largest exporter of agricultural products and we're such a tiny country.

00:26:12.760 You would think that this sector is celebrated by our government.

00:26:16.500 The fact that it's not, the fact that it's under attack is to a rational mind, just completely insane, really.

00:26:22.660 You know, it's insane.

00:26:23.600 And so you have to start thinking, what is the real reason that they're doing this then?

00:26:28.880 Why would you start coming after farmers in a time of food scarcity?

00:26:33.280 And that's where you come to the question of intent.

00:26:35.620 And I know that people find that to be a scary question.

00:26:38.640 I understand that people are like, oh, well, this is, you know, we live in a liberal democracy.

00:26:43.300 We're in the Western world.

00:26:44.760 Our government would never want us to be hungry.

00:26:47.540 Our government would never want us to starve.

00:26:49.540 Well, I think that that is plain wrong.

00:26:51.320 I think if you control the food supply, you control the people.

00:26:54.920 And our government knows that just as well as China does.

00:26:58.020 You know, that is not something that has left the modern mind, so to say, of the people who rule us.

00:27:02.740 And our farmers are, quite frankly, the only people with the courage and the manpower to stand up to our government.

00:27:10.180 They are an independent group.

00:27:11.940 They function freely, you know, without help of the government oftentimes.

00:27:17.180 They are hardworking.

00:27:18.780 They are Christian.

00:27:19.480 They represent the Dutch spirit.

00:27:23.080 More than just, you know, an agricultural sector.

00:27:26.740 They represent, I would say, our culture as a nation.

00:27:30.960 You know, they are a very, very important group.

00:27:33.340 Oftentimes, these businesses have been in Dutch families for centuries on end.

00:27:37.760 It is the backbone of our society.

00:27:40.240 So I think that that is one of the main reasons why they want them gone.

00:27:44.400 You know, really, it's an attack on our identity.

00:27:46.460 Okay, so now, okay, now Michael made a complex case for intent, and I'm going to return to that.

00:27:52.160 But I want to make a simpler case for intent, and then I want to discuss this, the idea of the Tri-City, for example,

00:28:00.060 and the theft of land from the farmers and what might be behind that.

00:28:06.700 So when I look at what's happening on the woke environmentalist front, what I fundamentally see are venal politicians who are not very competent at anything,

00:28:17.440 except attempting to look competent in a narcissistic way, that manipulate opinion polls and public opinion in general,

00:28:26.100 so that they can appear as though they're providing people with what they want.

00:28:30.560 Now, I saw this on the COVID front.

00:28:32.720 So, for example, in Canada, I talked to senior advisors of even conservative governments in Canada,

00:28:38.060 who told me flat out and to their own great shame that all the COVID policy lockdowns were driven 100% by opinion polls,

00:28:46.640 100%, and then justified with science post-hoc.

00:28:50.400 And I found that out with a reporter friend of mine who's a brilliant political analyst and who's been doing it for decades.

00:28:56.540 And I got to tell you that that was shocking to both of us, that it had actually got to that extreme.

00:29:02.580 And so what I see happening on the political front is, as I said, there's politicians who really have no long-term vision.

00:29:09.040 They're trying to cling to power in one way or another.

00:29:11.600 They can cotton on to this environmentalist ethos where they're protecting the virginal planet.

00:29:16.480 They're looking like heroes.

00:29:18.060 It doesn't take any effort on their part.

00:29:19.920 They can tell other people what to do.

00:29:21.560 And they look like they're actually making progress towards some desired end.

00:29:26.600 And then they can frighten people with idiot apocalyptic narratives.

00:29:30.580 And because people are frightened, they consider any environmental movement forward as positive.

00:29:34.860 And, of course, people like parks and nature and that sort of thing.

00:29:37.580 So it's not that hard to sell.

00:29:39.660 It isn't obvious to me that it's necessary to dig for deeper motives in the way that Michael is digging.

00:29:45.240 And we'll turn to that because I'm obviously going to give him full reign to justify his apprehensions.

00:29:51.020 When you're looking at deeper intent, like you're alluding to the idea that there's some plot to, let's say, to destroy core Dutch identity,

00:30:01.640 what do you think is behind this other than ignorance and narcissistic venality?

00:30:08.220 And what do you think of the Tri-City hypothesis, for example, and the notion that this is actually a planned program to depopulate the farm areas so that the land can be turned over to, well, to whoever it is that's interested in getting control of it?

00:30:23.880 I think there is definitely nothing conspiratorial about the idea that our government, you know, caters to the interests of globalists rather than to the people.

00:30:31.100 You know, if they were to listen to what the Vox Populi says, they wouldn't do this.

00:30:36.680 I would say that the majority of Dutch people, although you will never hear that in the mainstream media, do not agree with this.

00:30:42.580 You know, they don't think that expropriation is a good thing.

00:30:45.660 But they are being indoctrinated from all sides that this, in fact, will help nature, that this, in fact, will help the climate.

00:30:54.700 And so the fact that all the models that our government is using to calculate these nitrogen emissions, that they are faulty, that they are wrong,

00:31:01.380 which I think does show you, you know, that they are aware of the fact that this is a premise, that this is not actually their actual agenda.

00:31:09.300 You know, I think that that shows you that they don't have our best interests at heart.

00:31:14.820 So I think that is, it's very safe to say that that is not, you know, a conspiracy in any way, shape or form.

00:31:21.460 Then the, you know, the financial and political gain that they will get when they are able to seize these farmers' land.

00:31:28.660 Our country is a small country, but 80% of it is made up out of farmland.

00:31:32.760 So imagine what the state could do with that land, you know, what type of benefits that would bring them.

00:31:38.120 And of course, you know, they're happy to push this agenda of virtue, like, oh, look at us protecting nature.

00:31:43.960 And that is something that the mainstream media will also push.

00:31:47.240 So that is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a way.

00:31:51.000 Right, absolutely.

00:31:52.280 Well, okay, so in Canada, I believe it's clearly the case that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Deputy Prime Minister Freeland,

00:32:00.980 and also the socialist, hypothetically, Yagmik Singh, who's propping up the Trudeau government,

00:32:07.020 are aficionados of the WEF, of the World Economic Forum.

00:32:10.660 That's absolutely crystal clear.

00:32:12.320 And Trudeau has put forth a set of policies just transitioned recently that are essentially aimed at eviscerating the Canadian energy industry,

00:32:21.720 demolishing the forestry industry, and doing exactly the same thing to the Canadian farmers that the Dutch government is doing to the Dutch farmers.

00:32:28.980 They've called for a 35% reduction in fertiliser use across the board, independent of how much fertiliser any given farmer uses per unit of food,

00:32:40.480 not knowing at all that the farmers have strived diligently for the last six decades to be so hyper-efficient with fertiliser use,

00:32:47.780 because it's expensive, not least, that it beggars description.

00:32:51.820 I mean, they use satellite technology in the machines that distribute the fertiliser to make sure that it's never overused,

00:32:58.660 and they're unbelievably productive, but all of that's going by the wayside.

00:33:03.040 And it is definitely because, as far as I can tell, because Trudeau and Freeland and Singh are trying to please their globalist masters,

00:33:10.560 and they don't give a damn about Canada as a nation, because as our own Prime Minister has said,

00:33:15.860 the whole idea of the nation-state is archaic and anachronistic and also dangerous.

00:33:21.440 And so you think the same thing is happening on the Dutch side.

00:33:27.540 And so what do you think has characterized the globalist agenda for me?

00:33:33.220 Well, let's first say that Trudeau and Margrette, our Prime Minister,

00:33:37.120 are, I would say, almost basically the same person in terms of their political agenda, their political ideas.

00:33:42.860 You know, they've been seen holding hands and hugging during the pandemic

00:33:46.760 when they told everybody else to stay at least a meter and a half apart from each other,

00:33:51.600 and they were cracking down on our constitutional rights.

00:33:54.360 So Canada and the Netherlands are both pilot countries for the WEF.

00:33:59.560 We are both pilot countries for the globalist agenda.

00:34:02.420 But I think that the Netherlands is maybe even an easier target,

00:34:05.540 because we are already part, in a way, of a supranational organization, which is the EU.

00:34:09.840 You know, all of these policies come from the European Union,

00:34:14.820 and they obviously base their policies, again, on the sustainable development goals

00:34:18.720 that come from the United Nations and the World Economic Forum adopts those as well.

00:34:22.660 So, you know, when I hear you talk about Trudeau, it's as if I hear you talk about Margrette.

00:34:28.140 They're quite literally the same person when it comes to ideology.

00:34:31.700 So that is really important to know.

00:34:33.760 And these people cater to that globalist ideal, which I think they are able to sell, again,

00:34:40.740 to the population with this fake idea of virtue.

00:34:46.540 So if you look, for example, at the sustainable development goals of the United Nations,

00:34:51.080 you know, there are 30 of them, or 17, I think, 17 sustainable development goals.

00:34:55.920 All of them, if you look at them, sound wonderful.

00:34:58.440 You know, you would think, oh, this is perfect.

00:35:01.300 Of course I want to, I don't want anybody to be hungry.

00:35:03.840 Of course we want to abolish poverty worldwide.

00:35:06.720 Of course we want the sexists to have equal opportunities.

00:35:09.840 But the answer is always a crackdown on actually your freedom.

00:35:14.840 And on being Dutch.

00:35:16.300 Can you tell, back to the killing your identity,

00:35:20.140 can you tell Jordan about how the Dutch government does not even want you to use the word Holland anymore?

00:35:27.140 Absolutely, yeah.

00:35:28.460 No, I mean, we, our prime minister will not stop, I think, until we don't have a border anymore.

00:35:34.900 I mean, technically, you know, our border doesn't mean anything already with all the mass migration that we have coming in,

00:35:40.940 which Michael did make a fair point about.

00:35:43.080 For example, last year, we broke a migration record again.

00:35:46.360 400,000 people came into our tiny little piece of land that is already so incredibly densely populated.

00:35:54.020 The majority of the Dutch people have been against them.

00:35:56.180 How many people are there in Holland altogether?

00:35:57.840 We have about 18 million people.

00:36:00.880 What's the population?

00:36:01.740 18 million, and we are about half the size of the American state of Indiana.

00:36:05.240 Okay, 18.

00:36:05.860 To the point of the borders and stealing national identity.

00:36:09.000 Just yesterday, that the protest, where you led the way, where some people chickened out, but you took the lead truck.

00:36:17.720 Excellent.

00:36:18.560 Thank you.

00:36:19.260 While that protest was going on, the Extinction Rebellion tried to interrupt the protest that we were at,

00:36:26.320 which was very peaceful and a very happy event, actually, the one that we were at with 5,000 or 10,000 people.

00:36:31.760 I don't even know how many were there.

00:36:34.600 The Extinction Rebellion was blocking A-12, right?

00:36:37.820 Highway A-12.

00:36:39.160 And so the Dutch police actually asked the German Polizei to send water cannons over, which they did.

00:36:45.780 They sent water cannon trucks from Germany.

00:36:48.860 Polizei were driving in, you know, Policist trucks, and they started spraying down Dutch protesters.

00:36:55.780 This is amazing to think about.

00:36:57.700 You would never have thought that 80 years ago, that we would join forces again in a military sense with the Germans.

00:37:02.340 But now we have.

00:37:03.560 And one of the trucks, in a spate of just irony, it was Hun 2.

00:37:09.880 Hun 2.

00:37:10.480 You know, basically the Huns are in Netherlands.

00:37:12.120 Oh, wow.

00:37:12.940 Wow.

00:37:13.160 You can't even make up this stuff.

00:37:14.360 I think I sent it to you, Jordan.

00:37:15.720 So they took the side of Extinction Rebellion, essentially, which is as radical an environmentalist as a group.

00:37:21.020 No, no, no.

00:37:21.520 They were spraying Extinction Rebellion.

00:37:23.300 They were spraying Extinction Rebellion.

00:37:26.640 But the funny thing is, is that the German police were in Netherlands using their water cannon yesterday.

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00:38:39.960 So even from like a legal perspective, most of what is important, I think, to know for a country like mine and any country in the European Union is that a lot of our laws already aren't made in our country.

00:38:55.920 You know, they come from the European Union.

00:38:58.060 So that democratically leaves a huge gap between the citizen and the laws that come in.

00:39:04.600 And then in my country specifically, any international law has more legal power than the national law.

00:39:12.640 How is that for democracy, right?

00:39:14.760 So just that mere fact shows you, I think, you know, that we can no longer speak of a really strong national identity and democracy in that sense.

00:39:25.020 Well, you know, I was in the Netherlands about five years ago talking to a group of Dutch intellectuals, comedians, artists, and so forth.

00:39:33.820 And one of the things they told me was that they were having very grave doubts about the integrity of the Dutch identity.

00:39:43.040 And that really came as a shock to me because as a Canadian, I come from this little town in northern Alberta, which is only about 50 years old.

00:39:50.960 And Canada, especially Western Canada, is a very, very new country.

00:39:55.120 And so when I come to a place like Holland and I hear the Dutch people, especially the intellectuals and the artistic leaders, express doubts about the integrity of their culture,

00:40:03.420 it's just absolutely shocking to me because when I come in as an outsider, I think Holland is one of the great cultures, has one of the great cultures of the world,

00:40:11.980 but technologically, because your society runs so smoothly, it's an absolute bloody miracle, especially because you should be underwater.

00:40:19.500 And then culturally as well, I mean, Amsterdam's an absolutely beautiful city.

00:40:22.920 It has a rich artistic tradition, a rich religious tradition.

00:40:26.740 And if you, if you Dutch, are starting to doubt the validity of your own identity, there's no hope for, well, let's say for Canadians.

00:40:34.260 And of course, our prime minister has already famously announced that Canada has no core identity and that we're the first post-national state.

00:40:41.120 And so, but how do you, Eva, how do you read the fundamental motivation of the globalists?

00:40:47.920 I mean, you talked about the Sustainable Development Goals, and I have to admit or also pronounce that I helped write the original Sustainable Goal document,

00:40:57.920 and that was probably 10 years ago.

00:40:59.640 And in my defense, I can tell you that the drafts that were produced before the team that I was working on rewrote them

00:41:06.480 were a hell of a lot more vicious and troublesome than the drafts that we ended up with.

00:41:12.400 We took a lot of idiotic Cold War pro-socialist pros out of the descriptions and tried to make sense out of it.

00:41:20.500 I came out of that with a sense that I was extraordinarily confused at the multitude of the goals because there was no prioritization,

00:41:28.760 and also about the potential danger of precisely the top-down machinations that you're describing.

00:41:34.920 But as you said, if you look at the Sustainable Development Goals one by one, it's very difficult to take issue with them.

00:41:41.900 They all look positive.

00:41:43.720 The problem is that they're converted into top-down policy that's implemented by force.

00:41:49.980 And you pointed out something else that's extraordinarily troublesome,

00:41:52.900 which is that as we move toward international governance,

00:41:56.840 which is obviously necessary to some degree because nations have to communicate,

00:42:02.700 we're moving the distance between people at the local level like the Dutch farmers and those who putatively govern them.

00:42:10.200 We're putting in such a distance between them in terms of communication that there is no communication.

00:42:15.820 There's just top-down edict.

00:42:17.640 That's a real Tower of Babel situation.

00:42:20.260 And the reason I think the Dutch farmers are bellwethers or canaries in the coal mine

00:42:24.320 is because they are so-called ordinary, competent people, hyper-competent people,

00:42:29.700 and they're shaking their fist in the air saying,

00:42:32.100 look, you're demolishing our livelihoods here

00:42:34.220 while you're pursuing your virtue-signaling, self-aggrandizing, hyper-moral goals.

00:42:41.700 And not only are you not accomplishing those goals,

00:42:44.300 you're actually working at counter-purposes to them,

00:42:46.580 like the German government has managed on the energy front.

00:42:49.200 And so we're seeing a danger of a very intrusive form of global governance.

00:42:55.080 And that's, as you said, is taking priority over all national, local, and individual concerns.

00:43:00.860 And that's a huge danger.

00:43:02.880 And I don't think people are cognizant of that at all yet.

00:43:07.900 Lost as they are in this delusion that we're doing something like serving the environment.

00:43:13.300 It's a very, very simple narrative.

00:43:15.580 But so what do you see, though?

00:43:16.780 So, you know, you made a bit of a case there for the beneficial motives of some of the globalists,

00:43:23.680 at least, in relationship to these goals.

00:43:25.660 But there's a nefarious element to what's going on.

00:43:28.920 What do you think the fundamental intent is?

00:43:33.860 You know, like I worry about statements like,

00:43:35.980 the planet has too many people on it,

00:43:37.920 and we've exceeded the carrying capacity of the biosphere, etc., etc.,

00:43:41.720 which sound to me like implicitly murderous.

00:43:45.680 Of course, it's essentially murderous sentiment or suicidal.

00:43:49.040 But what do you think the intent of the globalists is if you had to give the devil his due?

00:43:54.760 Yes, okay.

00:43:55.460 So globalists, I mean, obviously, they're people.

00:43:57.860 So the flaws that are in our human souls,

00:44:01.280 the want for power and money lives inside of them as well.

00:44:05.680 And they want to do it on a global scale.

00:44:08.660 So the biggest evil, I would say imaginable, gets its chance if you let the globalists take rule.

00:44:16.160 So what do you want to do if you are a globalist who wants to, you know, open up all borders,

00:44:22.400 have essentially the biggest consumer base in the world, which is the entire world, right?

00:44:27.640 Well, then things like Christianity, national identity, cultural identity are just things that stand in your way.

00:44:35.500 If you want to create the perfect consumer, then you want somebody who doesn't know who he is,

00:44:41.240 who doesn't know what he stands for.

00:44:42.700 You know, a devout Christian, for example, who wants nothing more than to start a family and work hard and live for God

00:44:50.580 is not going to be the perfect consumer that sits on its couch, watches Netflix all day,

00:44:56.680 orders his food from Uber Eats, you know, and does nothing more than that, does nothing more than just consume.

00:45:03.920 So I think that the, it's, for me at least, it's hard not to see, again, the question of intent,

00:45:10.480 you know, of trying to uproot people so that they are confused and aimless souls

00:45:15.900 that will buy what these globalists offer and do as they say.

00:45:21.060 And I think that that is exactly what we are witnessing today.

00:45:24.080 Most of us are turning into perfect consumers without a higher purpose.

00:45:28.600 Oh, well, you sound, when you talk like that, you sound more like Joe Rogan or Russell Brand,

00:45:33.620 which, and maybe even Bernie Sanders, you know, these people on the left who are still genuine leftists

00:45:38.860 in some sense who are hyper-concerned about corporate gigantism, which I think is a genuine,

00:45:44.640 a genuine element of concern.

00:45:46.340 And what you're seeing expressing is an unholy, and I would say truly fascist level of collusion

00:45:52.440 between corporate giants who are essentially motivated by very little else than a kind of self-serving greed.

00:46:01.440 And maybe, which might work at a local level when there's lots of competition,

00:46:06.660 but when they're large enough to engage in regulatory capture and to engage in collusion

00:46:11.140 with government and media, that poses another one of these Tower of Babel threats to all of us.

00:46:16.060 And so that ties back into Michael, what Michael had brought up earlier,

00:46:19.540 all the snakes that he'd, what would you say, exposed underneath the carpet.

00:46:23.520 So Michael, I made the case to Eva that you could argue that you could attribute intent to the globalists

00:46:34.360 merely as a consequence of their desire to mask their incompetence with virtue signaling to the masses.

00:46:40.900 And then you could say corrupted by their unrecognized greed on the corporate front

00:46:46.860 and all the dark motivations that that puts in place for government corporate collusion.

00:46:51.420 But you're pointing to something that's more nefarious.

00:46:54.940 And as they say in the scientific community, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

00:47:01.840 So I don't know anything except for what we've talked about briefly about this Tri-City hypothesis.

00:47:08.900 And that seems to be like, I wouldn't want to wander down that rabbit hole unless it was absolutely necessary,

00:47:15.420 given that there's already alternative explanations.

00:47:17.100 It's not a hypothesis.

00:47:18.260 You're very, well, this is, that's what I want you to make a case for that and tell people why.

00:47:25.280 Web search Tri-State City and you'll see the map instantly.

00:47:28.240 They've got it mapped out.

00:47:29.440 We would be sitting right in the middle of it right here.

00:47:31.640 The map is mapped out.

00:47:33.320 They're doing research to make it now.

00:47:36.560 And when I see Trump talking about beautiful cities, I mean, it sounds like Tri-State City,

00:47:41.460 which is a smart city, which is meant for complete control.

00:47:44.540 I mean, they're already doing, at Brainport City, their experiment, I've been to Brainport City over there looking at things.

00:47:51.460 Look, we could have the same, I'm going to Japan again next week.

00:47:54.760 Again, I've written three books that are only in Japanese about this subject.

00:47:58.280 And I'm going there again next week.

00:47:59.980 We could have this exact same discussion.

00:48:02.200 If we take this to the orbital view, the exact same discussion in Japan,

00:48:06.640 and the details would sound almost like they do here, like little details.

00:48:10.920 They don't talk about shtick stuff, nitrogen, but they talk about other things.

00:48:14.540 For instance, Ava could be Masako Ganaha and she would be saying the exact same things,

00:48:20.640 except with little details.

00:48:21.880 Okay, so in Canada, Google attempted to collude with the Ontario government

00:48:30.140 to make the new port development in Toronto into a smart city.

00:48:35.320 And a person I know well who knows more about technological issues

00:48:39.320 and issues of potential technological control probably than anybody I've ever talked to in the world

00:48:44.300 more or less fought that to a standstill

00:48:47.200 so that Google didn't get their hands on the port development in Canada.

00:48:51.600 And his primary concern was that what Google essentially wanted

00:48:55.920 was all the data that would be generated as a consequence of constant monitoring

00:48:59.920 of absolutely everything that went on in the smart city

00:49:03.180 because that data is part of the extended digital self

00:49:06.780 and has tremendous commercial value.

00:49:08.500 Because if I can track you in all your purchases

00:49:10.700 and where you're going and where you are,

00:49:12.560 I can target you for marketing in a way that's been unheard of up until now.

00:49:16.940 And so that's a huge can of worms.

00:49:19.560 And in any case, that didn't happen in Canada.

00:49:21.600 Now, it's reminiscent to me as well of what's happening in the UK,

00:49:28.620 most particularly in Oxford and Cambridge,

00:49:30.740 in relationship to the 15-minute cities.

00:49:33.600 Now, the 15-minute cities are put forward as a solution

00:49:37.640 to the problem of undue distance to travel.

00:49:41.120 And so the idea is that wouldn't it be lovely

00:49:43.620 if we had walkable neighbourhoods where everything you needed was within easy reach?

00:49:48.260 And, you know, I have some sympathy for that

00:49:50.000 because I've gone to monoculture suburbs, let's say,

00:49:54.420 that are nothing but row upon row upon row of identical houses

00:49:57.780 with no churches and no bars and no community centres.

00:50:00.700 And, you know, the shopping centres at a distance.

00:50:03.180 And that doesn't look like an optimal urban model.

00:50:06.000 But I looked into the C40 websites.

00:50:08.780 The C40 is the consortium of municipalities that have signed on to the 15-minute city plan.

00:50:14.440 And I read in their own documentation,

00:50:16.700 this is relevant to the tri-state city idea,

00:50:19.900 that their goals are to reduce caloric consumption to 2,500 calories a day

00:50:25.460 by force, essentially, within the next 15 years,

00:50:28.720 to ensure that the peasant class, which is everybody but the elitists,

00:50:32.680 can't fly more than one time every three years,

00:50:35.060 to not merely shift private car ownership from fossil fuel to electric,

00:50:41.980 which is fundamentally impossible because the grid can't handle it,

00:50:44.880 but to eliminate 90% of private car ownership

00:50:49.080 so that people are forced to take, you know,

00:50:51.660 unbelievably expensive in terms of time utilisation

00:50:54.920 and non-existent public transportation systems,

00:50:58.240 and to limit the amount of travel that people can do outside of their neighbourhoods.

00:51:02.460 And, you know, I find, and then I watch the legacy media

00:51:05.420 claim that pointing that out is something akin to a right-wing conspiracy,

00:51:10.200 which it most certainly isn't,

00:51:11.700 because you can just find the bloody documentation online.

00:51:14.960 And then I look at places like China,

00:51:16.820 which have taken this to an extreme,

00:51:18.860 400, 600 million closed-circuit TV cameras in China,

00:51:24.620 one for every one and a half persons,

00:51:26.840 watching the Chinese all the time,

00:51:28.760 able to monitor them 100% by face,

00:51:31.120 and also to identify them by gait,

00:51:33.860 and to limit their ability to do absolutely anything,

00:51:37.380 to buy, to sell, to travel, to move,

00:51:40.500 to leave their neighbourhood,

00:51:41.720 with this top-down surveillance system

00:51:44.960 that perversely and consciously,

00:51:48.280 some of the Chinese engineers have actually named Skynet,

00:51:52.620 and in a conscious attempt to produce a positive version

00:51:55.500 of, you know, the absolutely catastrophic,

00:51:57.800 apocalyptic, artificial intelligence

00:51:59.980 that was in the bloody Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.

00:52:02.460 And you can't even talk about this stuff

00:52:04.160 without sounding like a raving conspiratorialist,

00:52:06.620 but there it is.

00:52:07.880 Now, tell me more about the Tri-State City.

00:52:10.800 So what have you seen?

00:52:11.800 Because I don't know anything about it,

00:52:13.400 neither does anybody else watching, I presume,

00:52:15.660 except for, you know,

00:52:16.880 those who've gone down the rabbit hole with you.

00:52:18.600 Yeah, you know, I love to read voraciously on pandemic

00:52:22.520 because I'm a war correspondent,

00:52:24.120 and pandemic, famine, and war, they go together, right?

00:52:26.840 They are co-sanguinated.

00:52:28.660 And I was reading a book about cholera

00:52:30.980 a couple of years ago.

00:52:31.980 I think it was called Ghost Map.

00:52:33.840 And interestingly, towards the end of the book,

00:52:36.660 the author in an otherwise excellent book

00:52:39.400 started talking about these smart cities

00:52:41.620 where, you know, basically everything,

00:52:43.920 we don't have to worry about any disease anymore,

00:52:46.080 that sort of thing.

00:52:46.780 And last time I was in China,

00:52:49.460 you know, I got kicked out of Hong Kong in 2020.

00:52:51.760 I was a bad boy.

00:52:53.000 I was watching the protests,

00:52:54.360 and they finally kicked me out after seven months.

00:52:56.580 But that was Hong Kong.

00:52:57.700 But when I was, last time I was in mainland China,

00:52:59.720 I was actually researching information war.

00:53:02.860 I was in places like Nanjing and Shanghai

00:53:04.880 and that sort of thing.

00:53:05.800 But I was in southern China,

00:53:07.380 where the Uyghurs are, for part of that trip.

00:53:10.500 And I was talking with restaurant owners

00:53:12.520 and farmers and that sort of thing.

00:53:14.420 And the restaurant, various restaurant owners

00:53:16.300 told me that when a Uyghur comes in,

00:53:18.540 they are mandated by law to call the police immediately.

00:53:21.840 The police immediately come to check.

00:53:23.860 So the smart city goes beyond mere optics.

00:53:26.760 You know, they're installing those cameras

00:53:28.220 all over Hong Kong.

00:53:29.220 They were doing that when I left.

00:53:30.640 That's in Hong Kong.

00:53:31.700 But over in mainland China,

00:53:33.200 it's not just the cameras everywhere.

00:53:35.280 It's also, you know, you're mandated to call.

00:53:37.720 When I was in Hong Kong, by the way,

00:53:39.000 in the protest,

00:53:40.140 the protesters would take their lasers

00:53:42.220 and shine them in the cameras

00:53:43.500 and burn out the sensors.

00:53:45.260 Actually, my camera got a little damaged by it.

00:53:47.760 But, you know,

00:53:48.260 that's not a long-term solution, obviously.

00:53:50.560 But what I'm getting to is,

00:53:52.000 these smart cities are clearly coming

00:53:53.780 and they're already here to some degree

00:53:55.860 every time we use our cards

00:53:57.540 and that sort of thing.

00:53:58.560 But they're clearly taking it

00:54:00.120 to a higher level of complete control.

00:54:02.620 And again, this isn't conspiratorial.

00:54:05.640 They say they're going to do it.

00:54:07.460 And when you talk about Mark Rutte,

00:54:08.680 the prime minister of Netherlands,

00:54:10.140 you can see Klaus Schwab going,

00:54:12.160 where do you find such prime ministers

00:54:14.360 as Mark Rutte?

00:54:15.800 You know, did you see him say,

00:54:17.420 I watch your Twitter, Jordan,

00:54:20.040 and I watch a lot of your podcast.

00:54:22.260 I know you know what's going on

00:54:23.660 because you talk about it all the time.

00:54:25.560 You attack Trudeau,

00:54:26.900 it seems like every two hours, right?

00:54:28.740 I mean, you know exactly what's happening.

00:54:31.040 This is a-

00:54:31.260 That's because I don't have enough time

00:54:32.840 to do it more.

00:54:33.960 Yeah, well, digital currency front.

00:54:36.360 I mean, well, one of the things

00:54:37.580 we should point out to everybody

00:54:38.900 who's watching and listening

00:54:39.940 is that we're already three quarters

00:54:41.620 of the way down

00:54:42.280 the digital currency pipeline

00:54:44.140 because there isn't really much difference

00:54:46.720 between a credit card

00:54:48.340 or a bank card and digital currency.

00:54:50.580 And the reason I say

00:54:51.500 there's not much difference

00:54:52.420 is because when you use a credit card

00:54:54.560 or a bank card

00:54:55.380 to make a transaction,

00:54:57.960 there's a digital record

00:54:59.140 of the transaction

00:55:00.080 and then that digital record

00:55:01.420 can be brokered.

00:55:02.920 And so far, mostly,

00:55:04.200 it's brokered to other corporations,

00:55:06.160 which isn't as totalitarian

00:55:08.420 as it might be

00:55:09.220 because so far,

00:55:11.080 most corporations

00:55:11.960 just want your money

00:55:12.980 so they can sell you things.

00:55:14.620 Now, that can be problematic

00:55:16.660 because you can have things

00:55:18.420 pushed on you

00:55:19.340 by what you call corporations

00:55:22.040 that are going a little bit farther

00:55:23.380 than they should

00:55:24.060 that you don't really need or want,

00:55:25.520 but at least you get something

00:55:27.140 out of the bar.

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00:56:47.400 But once we're fully digital

00:56:50.360 in our currency,

00:56:51.240 that'll mean the government

00:56:52.040 will be able to track

00:56:52.880 absolutely every bloody thing

00:56:54.760 you ever do

00:56:55.560 and also be able to do things

00:56:57.540 like they're already doing

00:56:58.420 in China.

00:56:59.020 So the Chinese government

00:57:00.340 has put expiry dates

00:57:01.520 on some digital currency.

00:57:03.440 So they, you know,

00:57:04.160 if they need to have

00:57:05.480 the population spend more,

00:57:07.400 let's say,

00:57:07.840 because there is a recession,

00:57:09.300 they could just put in an edict

00:57:10.820 that would make sure

00:57:12.040 that your money depreciated

00:57:13.820 by 2% every month

00:57:15.280 so that that would be

00:57:16.760 an impetus to spending.

00:57:18.560 And they could do the reverse

00:57:20.220 if they wanted you to save.

00:57:21.460 And so it means,

00:57:22.840 it means in potential

00:57:24.300 the emergence of a system

00:57:26.640 for comprehensive control

00:57:28.200 that's so complete

00:57:28.960 that we can barely imagine it.

00:57:30.460 And, you know,

00:57:31.180 we might say,

00:57:31.840 well, isn't that paranoid?

00:57:32.780 And I would say,

00:57:33.960 look,

00:57:34.620 we still think

00:57:35.640 we were in a COVID epidemic.

00:57:37.480 What we were really in

00:57:38.400 was an epidemic

00:57:39.180 of imitating

00:57:39.880 the Chinese communists.

00:57:41.420 And we ran to imitate them

00:57:43.100 as fast as we possibly could.

00:57:44.580 And that Chinese communist regime,

00:57:46.740 they just reelected

00:57:47.340 reelected Xi Jinping

00:57:48.560 the other day

00:57:49.360 with a 2,952 to zero margin

00:57:53.720 for the next five years.

00:57:55.400 The probability

00:57:56.040 that he's president for life

00:57:57.560 is extraordinarily high.

00:57:59.220 And so we are in danger

00:58:00.940 of using the Chinese communist party

00:58:02.760 and its vaunted efficiencies

00:58:04.220 on the energy

00:58:05.040 and environment front

00:58:06.020 as a model

00:58:06.880 for totalitarian governance

00:58:08.280 across the world.

00:58:09.420 You know,

00:58:09.720 we thought

00:58:10.220 when we integrated China

00:58:11.420 into the world economy

00:58:12.440 that the Chinese

00:58:13.540 would turn into

00:58:14.380 a Western democracy.

00:58:16.500 But what's happening instead,

00:58:18.360 I would say,

00:58:18.980 is that because we've invited

00:58:20.000 the Chinese to the table,

00:58:21.220 we're turning into the CCP.

00:58:23.540 Yeah,

00:58:23.900 and people are certainly not.

00:58:25.360 And we're doing it

00:58:26.080 under the guise

00:58:26.660 of this idiot

00:58:27.380 protect the virginal planet

00:58:28.820 environmentalism

00:58:29.860 that's all motivated

00:58:31.160 by this,

00:58:31.960 what would you say,

00:58:32.680 fear-mongering apocalypse

00:58:34.100 narrative.

00:58:35.600 That's probably

00:58:36.140 the fundamental question

00:58:38.340 of our time.

00:58:39.240 So that's why

00:58:39.700 we have to say no

00:58:40.600 to all of these things.

00:58:41.600 We have to say no

00:58:42.240 to CBDCs.

00:58:43.520 We have to say no

00:58:44.160 to digital identity.

00:58:45.280 We have to say no

00:58:46.020 to 15-minute cities

00:58:47.060 because they're all

00:58:48.240 the same thing.

00:58:49.200 But it's problematic.

00:58:50.240 It's hard in Western society

00:58:52.020 in the mind of modern men

00:58:53.540 nowadays

00:58:54.040 to tell them

00:58:55.460 that, you know,

00:58:56.460 those nice little pretexts

00:58:57.880 that they use

00:58:58.560 to sell this to us

00:58:59.820 are not actually the truth.

00:59:02.080 We need a return

00:59:03.200 to real ethical debate

00:59:05.040 about where we want to go

00:59:07.220 as a civilization.

00:59:08.800 And that's why

00:59:09.240 it's so important,

00:59:09.880 I think,

00:59:10.160 what you are trying to do

00:59:11.240 also with an alternative

00:59:12.340 to something like

00:59:13.640 the World Economic Forum

00:59:14.740 because those discussions

00:59:15.700 are not being held.

00:59:17.540 We are being sold lies.

00:59:19.220 We are being sold

00:59:20.160 false premises,

00:59:21.420 pretext,

00:59:22.060 and we are forced

00:59:22.920 to debate

00:59:23.360 within that circle

00:59:24.440 of lies oftentimes.

00:59:26.120 And it's the exact same thing

00:59:27.540 with the Dutch farmers.

00:59:29.560 You know,

00:59:29.780 that's why

00:59:30.340 they're all,

00:59:31.300 all these subjects

00:59:32.280 are related

00:59:33.440 to each other

00:59:34.160 because they're all

00:59:34.780 a matter of

00:59:35.540 are we going

00:59:36.820 to give up

00:59:37.540 our freedom

00:59:38.160 for a bit

00:59:39.040 of convenience

00:59:39.700 or for,

00:59:41.140 you know,

00:59:41.400 those nice words

00:59:42.180 that they try

00:59:42.620 to sell us.

00:59:43.580 And I think

00:59:43.960 the answer

00:59:44.280 should be

00:59:44.680 absolutely not.

00:59:46.140 But it's hard.

00:59:47.600 Yeah, yeah.

00:59:48.100 Well,

00:59:48.280 and then on the

00:59:48.820 digital currency front,

00:59:49.940 and Eva,

00:59:50.300 I'll turn to this

00:59:50.980 alternative that you

00:59:51.800 described in a minute.

00:59:52.760 On the digital currency front,

00:59:54.420 I think something

00:59:55.280 like a digital currency

00:59:56.340 is inevitable

00:59:56.940 because we're already

00:59:57.880 three quarters

00:59:58.420 of the way there.

00:59:59.680 And the only real

01:00:00.480 alternative I can see

01:00:01.600 to the top-down

01:00:02.420 centralized digital currency

01:00:03.840 that's being offered

01:00:04.700 by the governments

01:00:06.140 in collusion,

01:00:07.060 let's say,

01:00:07.420 with the WEF

01:00:08.300 is going to be

01:00:08.780 something like

01:00:09.280 a decentralized system.

01:00:10.400 And it looks to me

01:00:11.640 like the best

01:00:12.160 decentralized system

01:00:13.160 that's in place

01:00:13.780 for currency

01:00:14.280 at the moment

01:00:14.780 is Bitcoin.

01:00:16.040 And, you know,

01:00:16.420 I don't know

01:00:16.880 if Bitcoin's

01:00:17.520 the solution,

01:00:18.240 but I don't think

01:00:19.220 any of the other

01:00:20.040 electronic coins,

01:00:21.400 digital currencies,

01:00:22.120 have the same

01:00:23.120 advantages

01:00:23.660 or the same

01:00:24.680 genuine radical

01:00:25.940 decentralization

01:00:26.960 as Bitcoin.

01:00:27.840 And then,

01:00:28.640 Eva,

01:00:28.900 you mentioned

01:00:29.340 this alternative

01:00:30.040 to the WEF

01:00:31.400 that has been

01:00:32.280 generated in the UK.

01:00:33.220 So I'm going

01:00:34.240 to release

01:00:34.800 the statement

01:00:35.800 of vision

01:00:36.400 for that enterprise

01:00:37.500 on my YouTube channel

01:00:38.980 tomorrow.

01:00:39.400 That's March 13th.

01:00:40.640 I'm not sure

01:00:41.100 when this will air.

01:00:42.360 You know,

01:00:42.540 and one of the things

01:00:43.780 we're working through

01:00:44.900 is what the story

01:00:46.060 that might unite us

01:00:47.320 might be.

01:00:48.100 And the story

01:00:49.200 that we're being

01:00:49.740 presented right now

01:00:50.780 is that human activity,

01:00:52.920 especially at the

01:00:53.540 industrial level,

01:00:54.360 is intrinsically

01:00:55.400 destructive

01:00:56.020 in relationship

01:00:56.920 to pristine nature

01:00:58.080 and has to be

01:00:58.960 limited by force

01:01:00.240 if necessary

01:01:01.080 because there's

01:01:02.300 an apocalyptic

01:01:03.300 emergency at hand.

01:01:05.140 And I do not

01:01:06.400 believe for a moment

01:01:07.240 that there is

01:01:08.040 a single apocalyptic

01:01:09.580 emergency at hand.

01:01:11.000 There may be

01:01:11.540 a multitude of them

01:01:12.620 in many different

01:01:13.340 directions,

01:01:14.000 but to assume

01:01:14.880 that it's a mere

01:01:15.500 consequence,

01:01:16.240 let's say,

01:01:16.580 of nitrogen overproduction

01:01:17.740 or carbon overproduction

01:01:18.860 is a radical

01:01:20.060 oversimplification

01:01:21.020 of pathological

01:01:22.440 magnitude.

01:01:23.640 And I also don't

01:01:24.540 believe the idea

01:01:25.500 that limits

01:01:26.940 to growth

01:01:27.580 that are opposed

01:01:28.200 from the top down

01:01:29.100 are the only way

01:01:29.960 that human beings

01:01:30.920 can manage,

01:01:31.940 what would you say,

01:01:32.500 harmonious relationships

01:01:33.560 with the broader

01:01:34.240 biosphere.

01:01:35.860 I think instead

01:01:36.740 that if we got

01:01:37.880 our structures

01:01:38.380 of governance

01:01:39.200 put in place

01:01:40.380 properly,

01:01:40.900 like they generally

01:01:41.920 are in free

01:01:42.940 Western countries,

01:01:44.480 that people could

01:01:45.240 cooperate well enough

01:01:46.560 so that everyone

01:01:47.240 could be rich,

01:01:48.060 including the absolutely

01:01:49.040 poor around the world,

01:01:50.100 and that rich people

01:01:51.500 who have opportunity

01:01:53.060 and a certain degree

01:01:53.880 of security

01:01:54.400 would start to attend

01:01:55.660 to local environmental

01:01:57.000 concerns in a manner

01:01:58.000 that would make

01:01:58.520 the planet greener

01:01:59.420 and more sustainable.

01:02:01.060 So I think we could

01:02:02.120 have our cake

01:02:02.720 and eat it too.

01:02:03.420 And this enterprise

01:02:04.520 you described,

01:02:05.380 which is the Alliance

01:02:06.260 for Responsible Citizenship,

01:02:08.000 is going to have

01:02:08.540 its inaugural conference

01:02:09.800 October 31st,

01:02:11.420 November 1st,

01:02:12.200 and November 2nd.

01:02:13.040 I hope you two

01:02:13.600 can attend

01:02:14.200 and with a big

01:02:15.380 public event

01:02:16.060 right in the middle

01:02:16.680 of it that we hope

01:02:17.340 to bring 20,000,

01:02:18.600 approximately 20,000

01:02:19.760 people to.

01:02:20.340 But we're trying

01:02:21.180 to put forward

01:02:21.780 a vision of abundance

01:02:23.260 and freedom

01:02:24.460 and, let's say,

01:02:27.140 environmental stewardship,

01:02:29.380 so mature,

01:02:30.640 mature relationship

01:02:32.320 and so that's

01:02:33.500 definitely underway

01:02:34.320 and we have a lot

01:02:35.180 of people,

01:02:36.640 a lot of public,

01:02:38.200 a lot of the public

01:02:39.060 have already

01:02:39.660 clambered on board.

01:02:40.840 I've got a mailing list

01:02:41.700 of about 40,000 people

01:02:43.100 and we have

01:02:44.200 a large number

01:02:45.600 of well-positioned

01:02:48.100 cultural,

01:02:49.620 artistic,

01:02:50.580 business,

01:02:51.200 and political leaders

01:02:52.420 on board as well.

01:02:54.060 We're trying not to make

01:02:55.360 an elitist enterprise

01:02:56.800 for the reasons

01:02:58.440 that we've already described

01:02:59.540 and I think everybody

01:03:00.480 who's part of the core group

01:03:02.000 really is afraid

01:03:02.960 of elitist enterprises

01:03:04.200 and also concerned

01:03:06.220 that any attempts

01:03:07.500 on the international level

01:03:08.720 are likely to turn

01:03:09.860 into nothing

01:03:10.380 but an elitist enterprise.

01:03:11.800 But we're at least

01:03:12.640 going to try

01:03:13.080 to put forward

01:03:13.740 a vision that's

01:03:14.960 much more voluntary

01:03:15.980 and decentralized

01:03:16.840 and positive

01:03:17.660 than this bloody

01:03:18.600 top-down Tower of Babel

01:03:20.140 centralized apocalypse narrative

01:03:21.840 that everybody's

01:03:22.920 being force-fed now.

01:03:24.060 It's so funny to me

01:03:25.660 always how

01:03:26.140 they attack

01:03:27.420 the minds

01:03:28.360 of people really

01:03:30.080 and especially

01:03:30.600 young minds

01:03:31.260 from both ways.

01:03:32.260 It's on the one hand

01:03:33.020 this apocalyptic

01:03:34.420 like the whole world

01:03:35.780 is going to come

01:03:36.580 to an end

01:03:37.280 really alarmist

01:03:38.920 story

01:03:39.880 and then on the other hand

01:03:41.340 on the individual level

01:03:42.500 it's an anything-goes story.

01:03:44.800 Everything is relative.

01:03:46.220 You know,

01:03:46.660 there's just

01:03:47.240 there's your truth

01:03:48.280 there's my truth

01:03:49.120 there's nothing

01:03:49.800 such as an absolute truth

01:03:51.460 you know,

01:03:51.960 there's no God

01:03:52.840 there's no real morality

01:03:55.240 everything goes

01:03:56.500 and that combination

01:03:57.520 is so incredibly deadly

01:03:59.940 and that's why

01:04:00.900 I think it's so important

01:04:01.780 what you're doing

01:04:02.440 with this

01:04:02.820 and we need to counter it.

01:04:04.600 Well,

01:04:05.000 it's absolutely right Eva.

01:04:06.320 Well,

01:04:06.560 you get the worst

01:04:07.940 look

01:04:08.780 the most intense

01:04:11.700 and totalitarian tyranny

01:04:13.640 will necessarily emerge

01:04:16.080 in the midst

01:04:16.900 of the most fragmented

01:04:18.080 and individualized population

01:04:19.780 and so

01:04:20.820 and you see this

01:04:21.720 on the identity front

01:04:22.880 you know,

01:04:23.220 because the radicals claim now

01:04:24.780 is that your identity

01:04:25.780 is nothing at all

01:04:27.980 other than

01:04:28.620 what you feel it to be

01:04:30.300 at this moment

01:04:31.340 which is

01:04:32.100 as hedonistic

01:04:33.420 and whim-driven

01:04:34.260 an identity

01:04:34.840 as you can possibly imagine

01:04:36.320 and the consequence

01:04:37.500 of that

01:04:38.000 isn't freedom

01:04:38.900 except the freedom

01:04:39.980 of idiot whim

01:04:40.840 the consequence

01:04:41.720 is that you will

01:04:42.420 100%

01:04:44.860 hand over

01:04:45.740 all the responsibility

01:04:46.720 that you've abdicated

01:04:47.900 to top-down tyrants

01:04:49.120 and they will control

01:04:50.180 every element

01:04:50.900 of your life

01:04:51.560 you can't have a tyranny

01:04:53.040 without fractionated individuals

01:04:54.620 and it is

01:04:55.360 it is a perverse marriage

01:04:57.300 right

01:04:57.560 of that intense

01:04:58.440 subjective

01:04:59.180 so-called freedom

01:05:00.640 with this

01:05:01.240 insane

01:05:02.300 top-down

01:05:03.040 international

01:05:03.720 distant tyranny

01:05:04.860 and we're definitely

01:05:05.800 drifting in that direction

01:05:06.960 super fast

01:05:07.720 go ahead Michael

01:05:08.280 that weaponized migration

01:05:10.060 again

01:05:10.820 with massive people

01:05:11.920 coming from

01:05:12.480 massive numbers

01:05:13.480 of countries

01:05:14.040 into places

01:05:15.060 like the United States

01:05:15.980 and all across the EU

01:05:17.160 that creates that fracture

01:05:19.060 not at the

01:05:19.940 personal

01:05:21.560 level

01:05:22.660 in one mind

01:05:23.780 but in the whole population

01:05:25.260 you know

01:05:25.960 nobody's going to be able

01:05:26.800 to come together

01:05:27.460 you're not going to have

01:05:28.520 Dutch farmers

01:05:29.180 in Netherlands

01:05:29.680 they're going to be able

01:05:30.520 to stand up

01:05:31.060 because they're going

01:05:31.780 to be replaced

01:05:32.480 right

01:05:33.060 and then you're going

01:05:33.580 to have a bunch

01:05:34.020 of people from Somalia

01:05:35.140 and other places

01:05:35.980 that are all mixed together

01:05:37.420 they won't have

01:05:39.020 any centralized ability

01:05:40.840 to organize

01:05:41.640 perfect slaves

01:05:42.780 I mean this is very easy

01:05:44.080 this is what they say

01:05:45.200 they're going to do

01:05:45.880 you've spent a lot of time

01:05:48.020 in poverty stricken

01:05:50.120 and war torn countries

01:05:51.300 and my suspicions are

01:05:53.100 I don't want to put words

01:05:53.980 in your mouth

01:05:54.480 that you've developed

01:05:55.420 a certain degree of

01:05:56.420 what would you say

01:05:57.500 understanding of

01:05:58.680 and empathy

01:05:59.560 for the world's

01:06:01.140 poor and dispossessed

01:06:02.240 and I suppose

01:06:03.520 the globalists

01:06:04.460 who are anti-border

01:06:06.140 would make a case

01:06:06.960 that the poor people

01:06:08.060 around the world

01:06:08.660 should have the opportunity

01:06:09.580 to come to the west

01:06:10.560 and flourish

01:06:11.120 and so

01:06:11.600 and when you speak

01:06:13.360 of the danger of migration

01:06:14.780 then it's easy to paint you

01:06:16.480 as someone who's

01:06:17.340 you know

01:06:17.760 anti-third world

01:06:18.820 and anti-ethnic minority

01:06:20.280 but there is a real problem

01:06:22.540 of poverty

01:06:23.160 around the world

01:06:23.880 and so

01:06:24.300 what's your sense

01:06:25.720 about how that poverty

01:06:27.180 could be properly

01:06:28.180 ameliorated

01:06:29.280 around the world

01:06:30.320 without that poverty

01:06:31.260 without us falling

01:06:32.860 into this

01:06:33.520 like homogenized

01:06:34.840 globalist

01:06:35.480 utopian

01:06:36.080 fractionated

01:06:37.240 individual trap

01:06:38.400 well

01:06:39.820 keep in mind

01:06:40.740 I've spent

01:06:41.200 more than half

01:06:41.800 of my life

01:06:42.400 overseas

01:06:42.860 outside of the

01:06:43.700 United States

01:06:44.360 more than half

01:06:45.320 of my life

01:06:45.900 in about 90 countries

01:06:47.000 right

01:06:47.280 so I understand

01:06:48.420 that some fish

01:06:49.240 just don't mix well

01:06:50.200 in the same aquariums

01:06:51.240 right

01:06:51.440 I mean

01:06:52.140 there's some

01:06:53.100 you know

01:06:53.320 if you had

01:06:53.660 the aquarium fish chart

01:06:55.680 there are some fish

01:06:56.960 like let's say

01:06:58.160 Filipinos

01:06:58.740 that are green

01:06:59.380 green green green

01:07:00.240 yellow

01:07:00.540 they don't get along

01:07:01.140 with Filipinos as well

01:07:02.020 but green

01:07:02.400 Filipinos get along

01:07:03.540 with everybody

01:07:04.100 right

01:07:04.400 they just

01:07:05.600 they're like

01:07:06.160 the universal donor

01:07:07.000 and blood

01:07:07.500 and then there's

01:07:08.260 Chechens

01:07:08.700 red red red red

01:07:09.900 red red red

01:07:10.580 some don't get along

01:07:12.140 very well with each other

01:07:13.020 for instance

01:07:13.460 when I was in the

01:07:14.180 migrant camps

01:07:15.120 in Lithuania

01:07:15.740 I asked specifically

01:07:17.580 do you have any

01:07:18.580 Chechens

01:07:19.020 and they said yes

01:07:20.060 we keep them separately

01:07:21.200 I said what's the

01:07:22.400 critical mass

01:07:23.160 in other words

01:07:23.860 how many

01:07:24.200 they said

01:07:24.840 actually we have

01:07:25.560 a critical mass

01:07:26.200 we never have more

01:07:27.180 than six Chechens

01:07:28.420 together

01:07:28.840 if you have

01:07:30.180 seven Chechens

01:07:30.900 or more

01:07:31.240 it's kind of a joke

01:07:32.080 but it's not

01:07:32.580 they go

01:07:32.960 super critical

01:07:34.180 right

01:07:34.600 they become a gang

01:07:35.480 right

01:07:35.840 a lot of

01:07:36.720 something that

01:07:38.060 a lot of people

01:07:38.620 don't understand

01:07:39.320 is that you're not

01:07:40.220 importing individuals

01:07:41.880 you're importing

01:07:42.700 like Somali tribes

01:07:44.080 or Nigerian tribes

01:07:45.180 when you meet a Nigerian

01:07:46.600 like I was with a Nigerian

01:07:47.800 a few months ago

01:07:48.460 in Ireland

01:07:48.960 and I asked him

01:07:50.400 what people he was from

01:07:51.560 was it the Igbo

01:07:52.380 or whatever

01:07:53.080 you know what I was asking

01:07:53.840 there's different groups

01:07:54.680 over there

01:07:55.000 and you know

01:07:56.060 the Nigerians

01:07:57.660 don't come and get together

01:07:58.700 with Nigerians

01:07:59.480 they come and get together

01:08:00.400 with people

01:08:00.840 from their tribe

01:08:01.780 right

01:08:02.080 so when you have

01:08:03.020 Kurdish people come in

01:08:04.080 I love the Kurds

01:08:04.900 I'm out with Kurds a lot

01:08:05.960 when I'm over in that part

01:08:06.880 of the world

01:08:07.320 or Yazidis

01:08:08.300 I've spent a lot of time

01:08:09.300 with Yazidis

01:08:09.840 up in Nineveh province

01:08:10.980 in Iraq

01:08:11.500 and I met some Yazidis

01:08:12.880 in the camps

01:08:13.580 over in Lithuania

01:08:15.740 for instance

01:08:16.400 and one's still there

01:08:17.340 he messages me

01:08:18.120 he's stuck in a camp

01:08:18.960 actually he doesn't even

01:08:20.480 speak English

01:08:20.960 he speaks German

01:08:21.780 so we have to communicate

01:08:22.580 in German

01:08:23.100 he lived in Germany

01:08:24.300 before

01:08:24.760 the point is

01:08:25.760 some of these people

01:08:26.400 get along very well

01:08:27.460 others come in

01:08:28.700 as gangs

01:08:29.440 or they become gangs

01:08:30.440 later right

01:08:31.100 and this is designed

01:08:32.560 to split us apart

01:08:33.440 now of course

01:08:34.200 we can always

01:08:34.880 take migrants in

01:08:35.780 and we should

01:08:36.320 but we should

01:08:37.040 take them in

01:08:37.620 in the amount

01:08:38.240 that can actually

01:08:39.060 sort of dissolve

01:08:40.560 within our

01:08:41.480 or at least become

01:08:42.680 time to digest

01:08:45.460 let's say

01:08:46.040 but this is weaponized

01:08:47.160 integrate

01:08:47.640 this is weaponized

01:08:48.900 that's what Stalin

01:08:49.800 did in the Huladamore

01:08:51.160 in 1932-33

01:08:52.640 and well actually

01:08:53.540 before and after that

01:08:54.400 as well

01:08:54.800 that's what Mao did

01:08:56.640 Pol Pot

01:08:57.120 always trying to get rid

01:08:58.460 of these base groups

01:08:59.400 that have some

01:09:00.500 cultural identity

01:09:01.460 the farmers

01:09:02.220 I keep telling

01:09:03.400 Dutch farmers

01:09:04.060 because

01:09:04.320 I'm looking at this

01:09:05.700 from the orbital view

01:09:06.540 because I go from

01:09:07.220 country to country

01:09:08.080 and I'm looking for patterns

01:09:09.540 and they're very

01:09:10.300 like I said

01:09:10.940 we could go to Japan

01:09:11.820 and you would hear

01:09:12.380 the same conversation

01:09:13.420 only the little details

01:09:14.840 would change

01:09:15.500 and they're trying

01:09:16.440 to prepare the Japanese

01:09:17.640 actually

01:09:18.240 to bring in migrants

01:09:19.840 and the Japanese

01:09:20.860 are

01:09:21.280 some are falling for it

01:09:22.520 for instance

01:09:23.040 if you go to Okinawa

01:09:24.440 well they have a demographic

01:09:25.820 they have a demographic

01:09:27.360 collapse in Japan

01:09:28.520 so

01:09:29.000 you know

01:09:29.920 the Japanese

01:09:30.960 haven't managed

01:09:31.900 to reproduce

01:09:32.400 enough to keep

01:09:33.260 their young population

01:09:34.400 at a sufficient number

01:09:36.140 likely to support

01:09:37.080 their industrial enterprise

01:09:38.240 across time

01:09:38.900 and China has exactly

01:09:39.920 the same problem

01:09:40.680 I mean

01:09:41.020 do you think Japan

01:09:42.180 has any option

01:09:43.120 other than to

01:09:43.900 open itself up

01:09:45.060 to a certain degree

01:09:45.820 of immigration?

01:09:46.760 certainly

01:09:47.140 I mean

01:09:47.700 encourage the kids

01:09:48.580 to have more babies

01:09:49.440 I mean

01:09:49.760 to get married

01:09:50.540 and have babies

01:09:51.140 you know what I'm saying

01:09:51.760 yeah

01:09:52.240 well

01:09:52.860 very few countries

01:09:54.340 have managed that

01:09:55.280 you know

01:09:55.560 Hungary has tried that

01:09:56.700 quite assiduously

01:09:57.560 and they've managed

01:09:58.300 to stop the decline

01:09:59.640 in birth rate

01:10:00.380 and raise it slightly

01:10:01.420 but it's proved

01:10:02.640 very difficult

01:10:03.280 for Western countries

01:10:04.340 to encourage young people

01:10:06.120 to reproduce enough

01:10:07.200 to you know

01:10:08.020 surpass that replacement

01:10:09.460 that replacement barrier

01:10:10.920 that's another problem

01:10:11.880 we're trying to address

01:10:12.940 with this Alliance

01:10:13.680 for Responsible Citizenship

01:10:15.140 I was there last year

01:10:16.020 checking it out

01:10:16.640 in Hungary

01:10:17.000 I mean

01:10:17.320 it's a clear problem

01:10:18.240 it's absolutely true

01:10:19.220 that it's a very

01:10:19.960 very hard question

01:10:21.200 to solve

01:10:21.720 but the answer

01:10:22.540 can never be

01:10:23.360 a solution

01:10:23.900 that doesn't work

01:10:24.820 I mean

01:10:25.380 the mass migration

01:10:26.220 of radically different cultures

01:10:27.980 especially to Europe

01:10:28.940 has proven to be

01:10:30.700 very very unsuccessful

01:10:32.380 and something that

01:10:33.500 the majority

01:10:34.000 at least of Western

01:10:35.340 well most Western countries

01:10:36.900 are actually against

01:10:37.940 but they are never heard

01:10:39.820 their questions

01:10:40.720 are never answered

01:10:42.020 so democracy

01:10:43.360 in that sense

01:10:43.860 already does not function

01:10:45.220 we don't have borders

01:10:46.280 they are not protected

01:10:47.380 and the consequences

01:10:48.620 have been quite

01:10:49.820 I would say

01:10:50.320 quite detrimental

01:10:50.980 for any major European city

01:10:53.140 and the answer

01:10:54.260 to poverty

01:10:55.000 in other parts

01:10:55.740 of the world

01:10:56.220 I don't think

01:10:57.320 can ever be

01:10:58.220 let's have

01:10:59.080 all the young

01:11:00.020 you know

01:11:00.680 capable men

01:11:01.600 move abroad

01:11:02.660 you know

01:11:03.680 or move continent even

01:11:05.120 how are they going

01:11:06.420 to build those countries

01:11:07.360 up themselves

01:11:07.980 so I don't think

01:11:09.360 that it's a solution

01:11:10.140 for Europe

01:11:10.880 nor is it

01:11:11.680 for example

01:11:12.120 for Africa

01:11:12.780 nor

01:11:13.520 and also

01:11:14.120 we're setting

01:11:14.800 we're just

01:11:16.000 you know

01:11:16.380 there's this demographic

01:11:17.420 demographic demise

01:11:18.720 of course it's happening

01:11:19.420 with Russia as well

01:11:20.260 in many countries

01:11:20.880 right

01:11:21.120 not in the United States

01:11:22.720 but in some countries

01:11:24.080 it's obviously a problem

01:11:25.380 but does that mean

01:11:26.140 it's the end of Japan

01:11:27.160 no it doesn't mean that

01:11:28.360 you know

01:11:29.100 it's not

01:11:29.960 it's non sequitur

01:11:30.900 to think

01:11:31.300 hey they don't have

01:11:32.560 a sufficient replenishment rate

01:11:33.840 so therefore

01:11:34.380 we should bring in

01:11:35.100 a bunch of Somalis

01:11:35.940 I mean

01:11:36.580 they're just like

01:11:37.640 where are they

01:11:37.940 that's like

01:11:38.400 I have a headache

01:11:38.980 so let me pour gas

01:11:39.940 on myself

01:11:40.480 right

01:11:40.820 it just doesn't work

01:11:41.900 so Michael

01:11:42.580 let's turn to this

01:11:43.560 tri-state city again

01:11:44.900 because I'm still unclear

01:11:46.140 as to its

01:11:47.080 function and purpose

01:11:48.840 and so

01:11:49.440 tell me

01:11:50.320 in some detail

01:11:51.180 what the tri-state city is

01:11:52.640 and

01:11:52.900 and then

01:11:53.740 let's turn

01:11:54.440 to more practical

01:11:55.400 considerations

01:11:56.140 again on the

01:11:56.960 farmer protest front

01:11:58.080 if you don't mind

01:11:59.020 so tell me a bit more

01:11:59.940 about the tri-state city plan

01:12:01.500 tri-state city is a

01:12:03.620 it's a

01:12:04.140 they've already mapped it out

01:12:05.480 they're starting to build it now

01:12:06.600 they have to take out

01:12:07.800 your farmers

01:12:08.280 for multiple reasons

01:12:09.800 one is

01:12:10.200 that also undermines

01:12:11.420 the entire culture

01:12:12.540 of Netherlands

01:12:13.280 the Dutch will

01:12:14.340 cease to exist

01:12:15.440 other than

01:12:16.260 in museums

01:12:17.180 right

01:12:17.560 and so

01:12:18.840 like the Kulaks

01:12:20.040 in Ukraine

01:12:20.660 right

01:12:21.020 and so

01:12:22.220 that

01:12:24.000 then you can take

01:12:24.900 their land

01:12:25.240 the Dutch

01:12:25.660 arguably

01:12:26.160 or the farmers

01:12:27.160 arguably

01:12:27.740 about 62%

01:12:28.760 of the land

01:12:29.200 I'm not sure

01:12:29.660 this number

01:12:30.100 is a moving number

01:12:31.140 and

01:12:31.820 and

01:12:32.460 I'm not sure

01:12:33.140 what the true numbers are

01:12:33.980 is that about right

01:12:34.840 and

01:12:35.500 yeah even a little bit higher

01:12:36.740 yeah

01:12:37.140 okay

01:12:37.660 so anyway

01:12:38.980 say 60 to 70%

01:12:40.460 the highest number

01:12:41.160 I've seen is 70

01:12:41.960 so you need that land

01:12:43.660 to make tri-state city

01:12:44.740 because most of Netherlands

01:12:45.960 is obviously

01:12:47.340 a farm

01:12:48.460 and so

01:12:49.480 but

01:12:49.800 as you pointed out

01:12:51.040 before Jordan

01:12:51.860 you've said this last year

01:12:52.920 why would you replace

01:12:54.580 the most efficient

01:12:55.540 farmers in the world

01:12:56.460 or arguably

01:12:57.100 among the most

01:12:58.660 efficient farmers

01:12:59.420 in the world

01:12:59.940 to start

01:13:00.960 there's going to be

01:13:01.560 a nitrogen problem

01:13:02.420 all right

01:13:02.900 but it's not a

01:13:03.700 stick stuff

01:13:04.280 a gift

01:13:04.840 a poison

01:13:05.520 a gift

01:13:05.920 is a German word

01:13:06.800 for poison

01:13:07.180 it's not a

01:13:08.040 poison problem

01:13:09.120 there's not going to be

01:13:10.120 enough nitrogenous

01:13:11.060 fertilizers

01:13:11.580 we talked about that

01:13:12.620 in regard to

01:13:13.440 BASF

01:13:14.140 fertilizer plant

01:13:14.940 over in

01:13:15.380 Ludwigshafen Germany

01:13:16.320 where I went to

01:13:17.140 twice last year

01:13:17.960 last week

01:13:18.760 they announced reducing

01:13:19.740 2,600 more workers

01:13:21.280 you and I talked about

01:13:22.480 this at length

01:13:23.080 last year

01:13:23.600 and they just announced

01:13:24.880 it last week

01:13:25.940 and they're cutting off

01:13:27.140 one of their ammonia

01:13:27.840 plants

01:13:28.300 and so this is a

01:13:30.280 there's definitely

01:13:31.580 going to be a nitrogen

01:13:32.360 problem

01:13:32.820 there's not going to be

01:13:33.720 enough nitrogenous

01:13:34.640 fertilizers

01:13:35.180 for instance

01:13:35.920 a pig farmer

01:13:36.580 I was at here

01:13:37.320 in Netherlands

01:13:37.740 last week

01:13:38.540 he was happy

01:13:40.360 that he said

01:13:40.900 his system

01:13:42.140 is circular

01:13:42.820 he takes the pig poop

01:13:44.020 and he fertilizes

01:13:45.220 the Christmas trees

01:13:46.100 and the pear trees

01:13:46.900 with it

01:13:47.180 or maybe just

01:13:47.980 the pear trees

01:13:48.660 but he said

01:13:49.380 it's circular

01:13:50.020 so it's quite good

01:13:51.740 and I said

01:13:52.360 where do you get

01:13:52.900 your pig feed

01:13:53.540 he gets it

01:13:54.420 from Brazil

01:13:55.560 where does Brazil

01:13:56.940 get their nitrogenous

01:13:58.320 fertilizers

01:13:58.840 you remember

01:13:59.660 the gentleman

01:14:00.100 we had dinner

01:14:00.720 with last year

01:14:01.400 an old CEO

01:14:02.400 of a Dutch

01:14:03.080 chemical plant

01:14:04.640 DSM

01:14:05.220 he said

01:14:06.040 Brazil gets

01:14:07.300 their fertilizers

01:14:08.120 from Europe

01:14:08.920 and Brazil

01:14:09.820 he told us

01:14:10.400 at dinner

01:14:10.780 they're not going

01:14:11.800 to have enough

01:14:12.280 fertilizer this year

01:14:13.120 and as you know

01:14:13.600 the United States

01:14:14.280 gets a lot of

01:14:15.300 bar protein

01:14:15.860 from Brazil

01:14:16.920 so India's

01:14:18.480 got the same problem

01:14:19.440 you know

01:14:20.020 after you and I

01:14:21.100 met in Netherlands

01:14:22.040 I flew over to Ireland

01:14:23.080 and talked with

01:14:24.100 Mary Lou McDonald

01:14:24.980 the leader of Sinn Féin

01:14:26.220 and all she wanted

01:14:26.920 to talk about

01:14:27.440 was equity

01:14:28.000 and bringing in

01:14:29.080 migrants

01:14:29.580 you know

01:14:30.180 and didn't want

01:14:31.280 to talk about

01:14:31.780 food or energy

01:14:32.500 so I flew over

01:14:33.500 to London

01:14:33.900 and I heard

01:14:34.320 the same story again

01:14:35.340 I flew to Thailand

01:14:36.140 and I was having coffee

01:14:37.560 with an ex-prime minister

01:14:38.600 Abhisset

01:14:39.120 I know him

01:14:39.640 from old days

01:14:40.560 you can see me

01:14:41.520 and him flying around

01:14:42.480 back during

01:14:43.120 the fighting days

01:14:43.900 and I have an office

01:14:45.100 in Thailand

01:14:45.600 and I said

01:14:46.420 you know

01:14:46.620 you've got problems

01:14:47.540 you're going to have problems

01:14:48.960 you import 92%

01:14:51.040 of your nitrogenous

01:14:52.020 fertilizers

01:14:52.520 you only create

01:14:53.700 8%

01:14:54.960 and that's

01:14:56.280 5 million metric tons

01:14:57.680 that you may not

01:14:58.700 be able to get

01:14:59.280 sometime in 2023

01:15:00.460 may not

01:15:01.460 it's unknown

01:15:02.100 and if you can't

01:15:03.320 he said

01:15:03.620 oh Michael

01:15:04.160 you know

01:15:04.500 we export

01:15:05.180 X amount of rice

01:15:06.100 I'm well aware

01:15:08.380 of that

01:15:08.760 how much rice

01:15:09.380 you export

01:15:09.960 however

01:15:10.760 rice is basically

01:15:12.420 a nitrogen vacuum

01:15:13.400 it sucks out

01:15:14.480 the nitrogen

01:15:14.940 into the rice

01:15:15.760 and you export

01:15:16.460 that nitrogen

01:15:17.120 Thai soil

01:15:18.140 is very poor

01:15:19.120 in nitrogen

01:15:19.700 you have to have

01:15:21.320 that nitrogenous

01:15:22.380 fertilizer

01:15:22.580 where are you going

01:15:23.060 to get it from

01:15:23.560 he said

01:15:24.100 we'll get it

01:15:24.620 from China

01:15:25.100 I'm like

01:15:25.460 check it out

01:15:26.400 you're not getting

01:15:27.040 it from China

01:15:27.560 right now

01:15:28.160 and you're not

01:15:28.860 going to get it

01:15:29.260 from Russia

01:15:29.720 or at least

01:15:30.360 it's very seriously

01:15:31.340 in doubt

01:15:31.820 if you can get it

01:15:32.420 from Russia

01:15:32.900 you're not going

01:15:33.800 to get it

01:15:34.100 from Europe

01:15:34.600 where are you

01:15:35.220 going to get it

01:15:35.620 from

01:15:35.820 you're going

01:15:36.140 to be bidding

01:15:36.620 against Japan

01:15:37.540 Japan needs it

01:15:38.560 too

01:15:38.840 Malaysia

01:15:39.540 cut off the

01:15:40.060 natural gas

01:15:40.640 I mean

01:15:41.080 this is a big

01:15:41.760 I'm looking at this

01:15:43.100 from the orbital view

01:15:44.000 from the orbital view

01:15:45.000 we've talked about

01:15:45.820 food issues before

01:15:46.820 you're no more

01:15:47.920 optimistic

01:15:48.560 you're no more

01:15:49.360 optimistic

01:15:49.900 on the fertilizer

01:15:50.780 side

01:15:51.240 than you were

01:15:51.880 a year ago

01:15:52.440 when we spoke

01:15:53.180 I mean

01:15:53.520 you know

01:15:54.200 the winter

01:15:55.260 hasn't been

01:15:55.900 as catastrophic

01:15:56.860 as we had

01:15:59.140 bandied back

01:15:59.960 and forth

01:16:00.500 for a variety

01:16:01.320 of different reasons

01:16:02.240 and the energy

01:16:03.000 crisis didn't

01:16:03.820 come to

01:16:04.260 well

01:16:05.040 hey

01:16:05.680 fair enough

01:16:06.400 but

01:16:06.920 you're still

01:16:08.140 convinced

01:16:08.760 that

01:16:09.140 a fertilizer

01:16:10.600 shortage

01:16:11.100 so radical

01:16:11.700 increase

01:16:12.220 in fertilizer

01:16:12.720 prices

01:16:13.120 at the

01:16:13.520 minimum

01:16:13.760 is in

01:16:14.400 the

01:16:14.660 offing

01:16:15.320 sometime

01:16:15.900 in the next

01:16:16.560 what year

01:16:17.260 or two years

01:16:18.020 and why are you

01:16:19.280 still convinced

01:16:19.900 of that Michael

01:16:20.620 well as you know

01:16:21.380 food prices

01:16:22.040 are non-elastic

01:16:22.840 I was meeting

01:16:23.620 with a Dutch

01:16:24.120 farmer

01:16:24.560 just the other

01:16:25.760 day

01:16:25.980 he has 17

01:16:27.020 acres of

01:16:27.600 greenhouses

01:16:28.100 it's obviously

01:16:29.100 massive

01:16:29.560 and I asked

01:16:30.620 him about that

01:16:31.400 and he said

01:16:32.160 yes

01:16:32.440 I didn't ask

01:16:33.140 him about

01:16:33.540 actually

01:16:34.040 about famine

01:16:35.020 I asked him

01:16:35.580 what he thought

01:16:36.240 how does the future

01:16:37.260 look with food

01:16:38.000 and he said

01:16:38.920 he talked about

01:16:39.660 hunger's note

01:16:40.360 which in Dutch

01:16:41.100 is famine

01:16:41.900 right

01:16:42.180 and so

01:16:43.760 he talked about

01:16:45.500 this famine

01:16:46.040 and I said

01:16:46.920 what's the time

01:16:47.860 window

01:16:48.100 and he said

01:16:48.500 probably

01:16:49.040 four to five

01:16:49.700 years

01:16:50.000 and this guy

01:16:51.440 has actually

01:16:51.920 started selling

01:16:52.660 electricity

01:16:53.340 he just bought

01:16:54.460 a generator

01:16:55.040 from France

01:16:55.760 a diesel

01:16:56.260 generator

01:16:56.780 and he's

01:16:57.940 a farmer

01:16:58.440 but he saw

01:16:59.360 that the

01:16:59.840 windmills

01:17:00.620 and the solar

01:17:01.160 that is all

01:17:01.820 over the place

01:17:02.320 here

01:17:02.560 you know

01:17:03.340 solar

01:17:03.700 what months

01:17:04.420 does that

01:17:04.760 actually work

01:17:05.340 in

01:17:05.540 what starts

01:17:06.400 in maybe

01:17:06.780 May

01:17:07.100 I'm not even

01:17:07.600 sure

01:17:07.860 but I mean

01:17:08.540 there's solar

01:17:08.980 you've seen

01:17:09.620 them Jordan

01:17:10.000 there's a massive

01:17:10.900 amount of solar

01:17:11.640 panels in a place

01:17:12.640 I mean

01:17:13.000 if this was

01:17:13.540 Florida

01:17:13.900 it'd make

01:17:14.320 complete sense

01:17:15.100 but you know

01:17:15.800 the windmills

01:17:16.360 outside of his

01:17:17.120 office

01:17:17.400 when I just

01:17:17.860 met him

01:17:18.180 were not

01:17:18.480 spinning

01:17:18.800 so I said

01:17:19.720 when do you

01:17:20.740 sell electricity

01:17:21.460 back to the grid

01:17:22.300 I mean

01:17:22.660 I see those

01:17:23.120 windmills

01:17:23.520 aren't spinning

01:17:24.080 he said

01:17:24.660 well I look

01:17:25.100 out my window

01:17:25.720 and those

01:17:26.160 windmills

01:17:26.560 are not spinning

01:17:27.240 and it's

01:17:27.580 cloudy

01:17:27.880 I'm making

01:17:28.680 money

01:17:29.020 so he talked

01:17:30.020 about

01:17:30.340 he just bought

01:17:31.220 he was renting

01:17:32.360 a generator

01:17:32.920 for $75,000

01:17:34.080 a month

01:17:34.700 he said

01:17:35.320 he's making

01:17:35.760 a couple

01:17:36.400 hundred thousand

01:17:36.980 dollars

01:17:37.380 a month

01:17:38.440 off of it

01:17:38.960 at that point

01:17:39.620 he just returned

01:17:40.420 that generator

01:17:41.080 just bought

01:17:41.840 two more

01:17:42.280 and he just

01:17:42.680 bought a third

01:17:43.300 one

01:17:43.540 this one

01:17:44.040 from France

01:17:44.620 which he's

01:17:45.000 about to install

01:17:45.760 so he has

01:17:46.540 these computer

01:17:47.600 screens

01:17:48.020 which he allows

01:17:48.480 is he contributing

01:17:49.100 to the grid

01:17:49.840 is he contributing

01:17:51.140 directly to the grid

01:17:52.060 how is he selling

01:17:52.760 the electricity

01:17:53.240 oh he has

01:17:54.160 he has these

01:17:54.860 computer screens

01:17:55.640 he let me

01:17:56.120 video on me

01:17:57.080 it was okay

01:17:57.580 with him

01:17:58.020 you know

01:17:58.700 if I publish

01:17:59.220 the video

01:17:59.600 which I haven't

01:18:00.140 done yet

01:18:00.480 but I can

01:18:01.000 send it to you

01:18:01.820 but he's got

01:18:02.240 these basically

01:18:03.040 two screens

01:18:03.780 in particular

01:18:04.320 and it shows

01:18:05.320 the price

01:18:06.080 of the

01:18:06.420 every minute

01:18:07.560 it updates

01:18:08.260 so at any

01:18:09.120 minute he might

01:18:09.800 start selling

01:18:10.440 electricity

01:18:10.900 so as soon

01:18:11.440 as it goes

01:18:11.860 below this

01:18:12.380 one line

01:18:13.900 which the line

01:18:14.640 is moving

01:18:15.080 based on how

01:18:16.120 much is diesel

01:18:16.740 cost

01:18:17.220 and how much

01:18:18.120 the electricity

01:18:19.020 cost at that

01:18:19.800 minute

01:18:20.080 as soon

01:18:20.600 as it goes

01:18:20.980 below that

01:18:21.460 line

01:18:21.760 he dumps

01:18:22.320 his one

01:18:22.620 megawatt

01:18:23.120 hour

01:18:23.440 or I think

01:18:24.980 it was a

01:18:25.260 one megawatt

01:18:25.900 actually electrical

01:18:27.520 engineers helped

01:18:28.300 me out

01:18:28.620 battery

01:18:29.600 which he

01:18:30.420 that huge

01:18:31.780 battery

01:18:32.180 dumps out

01:18:32.720 in 20 minutes

01:18:33.380 but while

01:18:33.700 that battery

01:18:34.240 is dumping

01:18:34.680 out

01:18:35.040 he's starting

01:18:35.840 his generators

01:18:36.500 and as soon

01:18:37.440 as the price

01:18:37.960 goes above

01:18:38.480 that line

01:18:38.860 he turns

01:18:39.280 them off

01:18:39.660 recharges

01:18:40.200 the battery

01:18:40.660 and so

01:18:41.460 multiple times

01:18:42.240 a day

01:18:42.540 he's turning

01:18:42.900 on the

01:18:43.180 generators

01:18:43.540 and turning

01:18:44.000 them back

01:18:44.340 off

01:18:44.540 and he's

01:18:44.740 making a

01:18:45.160 fortune

01:18:45.380 he told

01:18:46.060 me

01:18:46.220 that that

01:18:46.620 generator

01:18:47.660 that he's

01:18:48.120 about to

01:18:48.420 pay

01:18:48.640 or he

01:18:48.880 just

01:18:49.020 paid

01:18:49.380 450,000

01:18:51.420 euros

01:18:51.700 about

01:18:51.940 $475,000

01:18:53.180 he said

01:18:54.060 he should

01:18:54.360 get a

01:18:54.780 full return

01:18:55.400 on investment

01:18:56.040 in four

01:18:56.940 months

01:18:57.280 he said

01:18:57.620 three to

01:18:57.940 four months

01:18:58.400 so let's

01:18:58.680 say four

01:18:59.060 months

01:18:59.440 you know

01:19:00.120 so he's

01:19:00.780 already

01:19:01.000 stopped

01:19:01.500 growing

01:19:02.060 some of

01:19:02.420 the goods

01:19:03.180 in his

01:19:03.400 right

01:19:03.540 right

01:19:03.840 so he's

01:19:04.320 concerned

01:19:04.680 about

01:19:04.980 energy

01:19:05.440 reliability

01:19:05.980 and also

01:19:06.740 about

01:19:07.340 fertilizer

01:19:07.980 availability

01:19:08.680 oh yeah

01:19:09.800 right

01:19:10.600 right

01:19:10.920 got it

01:19:11.360 got it

01:19:11.680 so

01:19:11.860 I want

01:19:13.900 to know

01:19:14.140 a little

01:19:14.420 bit more

01:19:14.760 about

01:19:14.980 the

01:19:15.160 farmers

01:19:15.460 so

01:19:15.760 you guys

01:19:16.540 indicated

01:19:17.300 that there's

01:19:17.800 somewhere

01:19:18.060 between

01:19:18.440 five and

01:19:18.940 ten thousand

01:19:19.520 farmers

01:19:20.300 protesting

01:19:20.980 can you

01:19:21.800 tell us

01:19:22.300 the nature

01:19:23.160 of those

01:19:23.600 protests

01:19:24.100 like how

01:19:24.500 many tractors

01:19:25.280 are involved

01:19:25.860 what cities

01:19:26.600 are they

01:19:27.220 in

01:19:27.560 what are

01:19:28.540 they doing

01:19:29.220 to

01:19:30.220 what effect

01:19:31.700 is this

01:19:32.140 having on

01:19:32.680 Dutch society

01:19:33.440 practically

01:19:34.060 and metaphysically

01:19:35.120 and what are

01:19:35.800 the farmers

01:19:36.320 plans

01:19:37.100 so last

01:19:38.320 last summer

01:19:38.660 there were

01:19:38.980 massive

01:19:39.380 protests

01:19:39.940 going on

01:19:40.460 that were

01:19:40.780 quite

01:19:41.200 I would

01:19:42.300 say for

01:19:42.680 Dutch

01:19:42.960 standards

01:19:43.420 quite

01:19:43.900 radical

01:19:44.640 quote unquote

01:19:45.260 and I don't

01:19:45.820 mean that

01:19:46.180 in a negative

01:19:46.600 sense of

01:19:47.040 the word

01:19:47.380 but just

01:19:47.840 the fact

01:19:48.620 that they

01:19:49.120 went out

01:19:49.540 in such

01:19:49.980 fast

01:19:50.400 numbers

01:19:50.820 was something

01:19:51.240 that we

01:19:51.540 don't

01:19:51.820 often

01:19:52.200 see

01:19:52.620 in our

01:19:53.040 country

01:19:53.400 so for

01:19:54.180 example

01:19:54.420 the word

01:19:54.920 bolder

01:19:55.620 culture

01:19:56.040 is very

01:19:57.460 telling

01:19:57.860 for who

01:19:58.940 we are

01:19:59.400 as a

01:19:59.840 nation

01:20:00.140 that sort

01:20:00.720 of signifies

01:20:01.340 something like

01:20:01.920 we're a

01:20:02.600 nation of

01:20:02.980 compromise

01:20:03.380 we're a

01:20:03.860 nation of

01:20:04.240 dialogue

01:20:04.860 you know

01:20:06.320 one of

01:20:06.640 our

01:20:06.760 favorite

01:20:07.040 sayings

01:20:07.540 is like

01:20:07.940 oh

01:20:08.520 just

01:20:09.060 behave

01:20:09.400 normally

01:20:09.880 then you're

01:20:10.400 already

01:20:10.680 acting

01:20:11.060 crazy

01:20:11.460 enough

01:20:11.820 that is

01:20:12.220 really

01:20:12.600 typical

01:20:13.060 for the

01:20:13.600 Dutch

01:20:13.900 so to

01:20:14.620 have

01:20:14.980 all these

01:20:15.500 Dutch

01:20:15.800 farmers

01:20:16.240 in the

01:20:16.620 summer

01:20:16.860 go out

01:20:17.400 and protest

01:20:17.820 take their

01:20:18.260 tractors

01:20:18.720 onto the

01:20:19.220 highway

01:20:19.580 for example

01:20:20.180 block

01:20:20.880 the highway

01:20:21.480 block

01:20:21.900 distribution

01:20:22.480 centers

01:20:22.920 even go

01:20:23.480 towards

01:20:24.100 the airport

01:20:24.540 and basically

01:20:25.160 show our

01:20:25.740 government

01:20:26.040 who is

01:20:26.340 boss

01:20:26.620 because

01:20:26.840 that is

01:20:27.200 really

01:20:27.420 what

01:20:27.620 they

01:20:27.800 did

01:20:28.080 you know

01:20:28.400 within

01:20:29.000 a day

01:20:29.500 we saw

01:20:30.300 food

01:20:30.600 shortages

01:20:30.900 in the

01:20:31.240 supermarket

01:20:31.720 so it

01:20:32.500 really

01:20:32.780 reminded

01:20:33.280 people

01:20:33.720 of the

01:20:34.060 fact

01:20:34.240 that

01:20:34.460 farmers

01:20:34.860 you know

01:20:35.800 produce

01:20:36.300 our

01:20:36.500 food

01:20:36.780 they're

01:20:37.500 not just

01:20:37.820 businessmen

01:20:38.280 they produce

01:20:38.840 our

01:20:39.160 everyday

01:20:39.780 nutrition

01:20:40.300 for us

01:20:40.940 and they

01:20:42.020 were really

01:20:42.540 successful

01:20:43.040 with those

01:20:43.720 protests

01:20:44.220 a bit

01:20:44.760 too successful

01:20:45.640 and then

01:20:46.540 what happened

01:20:47.120 was the

01:20:47.580 Dutch

01:20:47.800 state

01:20:48.240 intervened

01:20:49.120 so they

01:20:49.500 sent

01:20:49.740 police

01:20:50.060 forces

01:20:50.500 they sent

01:20:51.440 actually

01:20:52.400 the military

01:20:52.960 to those

01:20:53.900 protests

01:20:54.260 and at a

01:20:55.160 certain point

01:20:55.660 they even

01:20:56.140 started using

01:20:56.880 violence

01:20:57.380 and shot

01:20:58.120 at a

01:20:58.900 16 year

01:20:59.460 old boy

01:21:00.000 that was

01:21:00.360 driving away

01:21:01.380 from the

01:21:02.220 protest

01:21:02.700 and mind

01:21:03.340 you

01:21:03.540 these

01:21:03.800 protests

01:21:04.120 are

01:21:04.540 completely

01:21:05.180 peaceful

01:21:05.720 so we

01:21:06.560 don't

01:21:06.860 you know

01:21:07.420 obviously

01:21:07.720 in the

01:21:07.940 Netherlands

01:21:08.120 we don't

01:21:08.440 have

01:21:08.720 that shooting

01:21:08.740 was on

01:21:09.120 video

01:21:09.420 from multiple

01:21:10.120 angles

01:21:10.520 that boy

01:21:11.000 didn't do

01:21:11.360 anything

01:21:11.700 that boy

01:21:12.000 didn't do

01:21:12.340 anything

01:21:12.640 he was

01:21:13.060 16 years

01:21:13.580 old

01:21:13.780 he was

01:21:14.020 on a

01:21:14.240 tractor

01:21:14.500 and he

01:21:14.700 was driving

01:21:15.080 away

01:21:15.400 that should

01:21:16.100 not happen

01:21:16.800 in a free

01:21:17.440 western

01:21:17.880 country

01:21:18.400 and the fact

01:21:19.260 that it

01:21:19.580 did happen

01:21:20.260 and the fact

01:21:20.980 that we

01:21:21.400 don't have

01:21:22.400 a first

01:21:22.900 amendment

01:21:23.220 and we

01:21:23.600 definitely

01:21:24.320 don't have

01:21:24.820 a second

01:21:25.160 amendment

01:21:25.600 became

01:21:26.400 very very

01:21:27.460 apparent

01:21:27.940 to me

01:21:28.500 what do

01:21:29.320 you do

01:21:29.880 in that

01:21:30.440 type of

01:21:30.800 situation

01:21:31.220 when you

01:21:31.540 are dealing

01:21:31.920 with a

01:21:32.280 government

01:21:32.580 that thinks

01:21:33.220 that it

01:21:33.760 can take

01:21:34.120 away

01:21:34.340 everything

01:21:34.700 that you

01:21:35.020 have ever

01:21:35.360 worked for

01:21:35.920 everything

01:21:36.460 that you

01:21:36.780 have ever

01:21:37.180 done

01:21:38.120 in your

01:21:38.460 entire

01:21:38.780 life

01:21:39.140 just like

01:21:39.760 this

01:21:40.160 because

01:21:40.420 they

01:21:40.640 create

01:21:40.980 a crisis

01:21:41.400 out of

01:21:41.740 thin air

01:21:42.100 and they

01:21:42.640 say

01:21:42.840 you have

01:21:43.440 to give

01:21:43.700 up your

01:21:43.980 rice

01:21:44.220 you have

01:21:44.480 to give

01:21:44.680 up your

01:21:44.900 property

01:21:45.260 and we're

01:21:45.900 just

01:21:46.060 going

01:21:46.220 to take

01:21:46.600 your

01:21:46.760 land

01:21:47.000 because

01:21:47.260 mind

01:21:47.520 you

01:21:47.680 our

01:21:47.880 farmers

01:21:48.180 are not

01:21:48.600 free

01:21:48.960 to sell

01:21:49.800 their

01:21:50.080 land

01:21:50.360 to the

01:21:50.700 market

01:21:51.000 you know

01:21:51.600 it has

01:21:52.160 to go

01:21:52.480 to the

01:21:52.820 state

01:21:53.100 so again

01:21:53.920 that shows

01:21:54.440 you

01:21:54.660 I think

01:21:55.300 the state's

01:21:56.240 true intent

01:21:56.800 okay so I

01:21:57.440 didn't know

01:21:57.880 that so tell

01:21:58.520 me that

01:21:58.860 okay so tell

01:21:59.700 me that

01:22:00.040 tell me that

01:22:00.700 again

01:22:01.000 yeah so

01:22:02.580 no that

01:22:03.240 all these

01:22:04.040 nitrogen

01:22:04.420 policies

01:22:05.060 the consequence

01:22:06.140 of those

01:22:06.820 are always

01:22:07.420 either

01:22:07.740 voluntary

01:22:08.320 selling

01:22:09.500 which like

01:22:10.600 we just

01:22:10.880 discussed

01:22:11.260 is never

01:22:11.760 really actually

01:22:12.540 voluntary

01:22:13.000 you know

01:22:13.560 you could be

01:22:14.360 pointing a gun

01:22:15.020 at me

01:22:15.480 from that

01:22:15.960 room and

01:22:16.500 then I

01:22:17.200 could say

01:22:17.580 oh yeah

01:22:17.860 here's my

01:22:18.480 you know

01:22:18.780 here's my

01:22:19.180 property

01:22:19.540 is that

01:22:19.900 voluntary

01:22:20.260 no of

01:22:20.680 course not

01:22:21.100 you know

01:22:21.340 that's

01:22:21.680 that's

01:22:22.200 basically a

01:22:22.720 metaphor for

01:22:23.160 what is

01:22:23.440 happening

01:22:23.740 with the

01:22:24.120 farmers

01:22:24.400 right now

01:22:24.920 and otherwise

01:22:25.800 it's going

01:22:26.300 to be

01:22:26.800 expropriation

01:22:27.800 forceful

01:22:28.440 buyouts

01:22:29.100 if they

01:22:29.560 don't say

01:22:30.140 yes now

01:22:30.800 it will

01:22:31.440 become

01:22:31.860 forced

01:22:32.400 later on

01:22:33.520 during the

01:22:34.420 next couple

01:22:34.860 of years

01:22:35.300 so just

01:22:36.780 that fact

01:22:37.520 alone that

01:22:37.980 they are

01:22:38.300 not you

01:22:39.060 know allowed

01:22:39.560 to sell

01:22:40.100 their farms

01:22:40.640 to the

01:22:41.080 market

01:22:41.360 for maybe

01:22:42.500 even potentially

01:22:43.120 a better

01:22:43.520 price

01:22:43.980 should tell

01:22:44.700 you all

01:22:44.980 that you

01:22:45.220 need to

01:22:45.480 know

01:22:45.680 right

01:22:46.400 right

01:22:46.720 okay so

01:22:47.240 what effect

01:22:48.000 is the

01:22:48.720 are the

01:22:50.380 farmers

01:22:50.700 protests

01:22:51.260 having on

01:22:52.460 dutch society

01:22:54.120 practically

01:22:54.780 and conceptually

01:22:57.020 are the

01:22:57.580 dutch people

01:22:58.280 you claimed

01:22:58.920 earlier that

01:22:59.440 the dutch people

01:23:00.120 are on the

01:23:01.260 side of the

01:23:01.840 farmers which

01:23:02.500 begs the

01:23:02.980 question then

01:23:03.640 why do you

01:23:04.080 have the

01:23:04.400 government

01:23:04.700 that you

01:23:05.120 have

01:23:05.480 you know

01:23:06.100 if that's

01:23:06.820 so clearly

01:23:07.220 the case

01:23:07.760 and is

01:23:09.080 there a

01:23:09.400 backlash

01:23:09.760 against the

01:23:10.440 farmers

01:23:10.700 protests

01:23:11.120 and what

01:23:11.920 are they

01:23:12.260 doing to

01:23:12.800 dutch society

01:23:13.700 like are

01:23:14.300 they shutting

01:23:14.800 what are

01:23:15.420 they shutting

01:23:15.840 down what's

01:23:16.660 the effect

01:23:17.100 on food

01:23:17.540 production

01:23:18.200 and on

01:23:18.980 public

01:23:19.280 confidence

01:23:19.880 etc

01:23:20.320 well after

01:23:21.280 those protests

01:23:21.940 in the summer

01:23:22.460 where they

01:23:22.900 shot at

01:23:23.380 the boy

01:23:23.820 and you

01:23:24.740 know the

01:23:25.060 protests

01:23:25.340 became more

01:23:25.920 and more

01:23:26.200 heated

01:23:26.780 the mainstream

01:23:27.860 media did

01:23:28.840 exactly what

01:23:29.500 our government

01:23:29.980 wants it to

01:23:30.580 do and they

01:23:31.100 started vilifying

01:23:31.960 our farmers

01:23:32.640 and you know

01:23:33.800 they are trying

01:23:34.460 to test the

01:23:35.320 people's patience

01:23:36.220 so when things

01:23:37.060 go on for too

01:23:37.940 long especially

01:23:38.900 in the Netherlands

01:23:39.560 people get tired

01:23:40.340 of it you know

01:23:40.960 the news cycle

01:23:42.020 they're like oh

01:23:42.520 these farmers

01:23:43.100 again the

01:23:44.620 government starts

01:23:45.340 saying we need

01:23:46.160 to renegotiate

01:23:47.320 like I said the

01:23:48.200 renegotiations

01:23:48.960 never lead to

01:23:49.600 anything they

01:23:50.460 just change

01:23:51.080 the tune but

01:23:52.200 their aim is

01:23:53.460 their hope is

01:23:54.200 that people

01:23:54.760 will get tired

01:23:55.340 of it and

01:23:56.140 sadly that was

01:23:57.080 the case so

01:23:58.200 for a couple

01:23:58.920 of months after

01:24:00.000 the Dutch

01:24:00.460 farmers were

01:24:00.960 worldwide news

01:24:01.980 during the

01:24:02.500 summer we

01:24:03.120 didn't hear

01:24:03.460 anything from

01:24:04.240 our farmers

01:24:04.740 for the longest

01:24:05.360 time and there

01:24:06.420 are a lot of

01:24:06.960 farmers that

01:24:07.580 are still because

01:24:08.500 you know usually

01:24:09.480 that is a good

01:24:10.340 Dutch mindset

01:24:11.160 open to dialogue

01:24:12.220 open to

01:24:12.740 negotiations you

01:24:14.160 know they were

01:24:15.020 they were willing

01:24:16.200 to sit around

01:24:17.160 the table with

01:24:17.720 our government

01:24:18.140 again and

01:24:18.940 and then when

01:24:19.900 the new report

01:24:20.680 came out and

01:24:21.480 nothing changed

01:24:22.440 the mainstream

01:24:23.800 media again started

01:24:24.800 ramping it up and

01:24:25.720 I think a lot of

01:24:26.600 people got afraid

01:24:27.700 they got fearful

01:24:28.680 a lot of farmers

01:24:29.460 that they had lost

01:24:30.160 the support of

01:24:30.760 the people because

01:24:31.640 if they read what

01:24:32.560 the mainstream

01:24:33.360 papers write about

01:24:34.720 them then if I

01:24:36.140 were them I would

01:24:36.780 also think that

01:24:37.540 I had no support

01:24:39.660 from the Dutch

01:24:40.160 people anymore

01:24:40.860 but I think

01:24:41.700 inherently the

01:24:43.260 opposite is true

01:24:44.080 I think if you

01:24:44.740 ask most people

01:24:45.840 on the street

01:24:46.600 in Holland do

01:24:47.820 you think that

01:24:48.300 this is right

01:24:48.880 they will say

01:24:49.820 no I don't

01:24:50.600 think that that

01:24:51.080 is right

01:24:51.540 but they don't

01:24:52.560 quite make the

01:24:53.580 next step

01:24:54.280 where they

01:24:55.060 translate that

01:24:55.940 into this

01:24:56.980 government is

01:24:57.560 actually what

01:24:58.240 they're doing

01:24:58.560 is actually

01:24:58.920 criminal

01:24:59.300 you know I

01:25:00.160 don't want to

01:25:00.880 do that

01:25:01.280 they're still

01:25:02.140 stuck in that

01:25:03.760 lie of well

01:25:05.480 you know if

01:25:06.260 there's really a

01:25:06.980 crisis then maybe

01:25:07.720 we should do

01:25:08.300 something

01:25:08.720 maybe we should

01:25:09.700 negotiate a little

01:25:10.720 bit whereas I

01:25:11.640 personally have

01:25:13.000 made it my

01:25:13.440 mission to say

01:25:14.020 none of this is

01:25:15.200 real it's a

01:25:16.400 political decision

01:25:17.440 we should not

01:25:18.880 negotiate with

01:25:19.820 people who are

01:25:21.180 driving our

01:25:21.780 farmers to

01:25:22.540 well to despair

01:25:23.660 and who want to

01:25:24.580 take away their

01:25:25.120 lands they're

01:25:25.700 thieves you know

01:25:26.720 if a thief comes

01:25:27.680 into my house I

01:25:29.200 will not go and

01:25:30.000 negotiate with them

01:25:30.880 and say well

01:25:31.740 please don't take

01:25:32.600 my laptop but you

01:25:33.480 can take the TV

01:25:34.200 are we good now

01:25:35.120 you know of course

01:25:35.980 you would never do

01:25:36.820 that but with the

01:25:37.940 government people

01:25:38.600 expect our farmers

01:25:39.680 to do it and I

01:25:41.380 think that is the

01:25:42.000 strategy like I

01:25:42.840 said a war of

01:25:43.640 attrition they

01:25:44.620 to try to drag

01:25:45.400 it out so long

01:25:46.400 well so if you

01:25:47.080 can't negotiate in

01:25:48.420 good faith because

01:25:49.280 your partners aren't

01:25:50.220 negotiating in good

01:25:51.160 faith what

01:25:52.640 alternative is left

01:25:53.840 for the Dutch

01:25:54.380 farmers and what's

01:25:55.520 the plan I mean

01:25:56.460 they they're they're

01:25:57.680 bringing their

01:25:58.180 tractors en masse to

01:25:59.360 what cities where

01:26:00.180 are the protests

01:26:00.740 taking place right

01:26:01.560 now well they were

01:26:02.540 all over the country

01:26:03.580 really during the

01:26:04.740 summer and now we

01:26:05.620 had a rally yesterday

01:26:06.740 that was at the

01:26:07.540 Hague and that was

01:26:08.520 because the Hague is

01:26:09.960 where our parliament

01:26:10.760 resides and we have

01:26:12.360 elections coming up in

01:26:13.660 a couple of days

01:26:14.600 those are regional

01:26:15.740 elections but they

01:26:16.540 are important because

01:26:17.360 they dictate what

01:26:18.380 our senate looks

01:26:19.320 like so if our

01:26:20.880 senate changes in

01:26:22.460 you know in

01:26:23.620 composition and if

01:26:24.380 the cabinet the

01:26:25.120 current cabinet

01:26:25.640 loses its majority

01:26:26.900 then obviously new

01:26:28.400 legislation will not

01:26:29.520 pass so it is

01:26:30.960 incredibly important

01:26:32.040 that this happens

01:26:32.960 right now and

01:26:34.100 they but the

01:26:34.980 farmers were very

01:26:35.680 afraid leading up to

01:26:36.660 this this rally that

01:26:37.580 we had yesterday this

01:26:38.440 protest that we had

01:26:39.100 yesterday to even

01:26:39.880 take their tractors

01:26:41.020 because the mayor of

01:26:42.300 the Hague said you

01:26:43.500 cannot bring your

01:26:44.240 tractors which I

01:26:45.040 think is a massive

01:26:45.740 violation of our

01:26:46.560 right to protest

01:26:47.140 because you know

01:26:47.820 tractors are not

01:26:48.980 weapons but they

01:26:50.140 symbolize who the

01:26:51.440 farmers are you

01:26:52.280 have to stop asking

01:26:53.440 for permission freedom

01:26:54.980 is not granted freedom

01:26:56.120 is taken I agree by

01:26:57.520 any means necessary the

01:26:58.820 the by any means

01:27:00.480 necessary that sounds

01:27:01.720 familiar these days

01:27:02.560 they the Dutch

01:27:04.060 farmers have to go

01:27:04.900 full French you know

01:27:06.380 the front what happens

01:27:07.340 when you push French

01:27:08.200 farmers you know the

01:27:10.200 the French government

01:27:11.560 is terrified of their

01:27:12.480 farmers I used to

01:27:13.700 think the French

01:27:14.260 farmers were wrong to

01:27:15.280 protest every little

01:27:16.200 thing like you know

01:27:17.300 when I go to France

01:27:18.440 and you know the

01:27:19.100 farmers will give you

01:27:19.900 an earful and but now

01:27:22.140 I realize the wisdom

01:27:23.260 of their ways oh yeah

01:27:24.640 absolutely you've got

01:27:25.680 to go full French and

01:27:27.460 if you play defense

01:27:28.720 you're absolutely going

01:27:29.880 to lose and you

01:27:30.860 cannot compromise with

01:27:32.060 this it's like you

01:27:32.780 said it's like

01:27:33.480 compromising with a

01:27:34.420 robber you have to go

01:27:35.600 full on and and be

01:27:37.620 offensive and I don't

01:27:38.420 mean kill people but I

01:27:39.380 mean do it the way the

01:27:40.180 French do it the French

01:27:41.140 farmers aren't out

01:27:41.900 killing people but

01:27:42.900 they'll sure block the

01:27:43.860 roads and terrify the

01:27:44.820 government they'll

01:27:45.620 terrify them at the

01:27:46.760 election polls and it

01:27:48.520 works yeah I'm going to

01:27:49.880 go back to France and

01:27:50.840 learn some more of

01:27:51.540 their tricks so this is

01:27:53.000 you know my last hope

01:27:54.700 with the farmers is that

01:27:55.520 they will start to see

01:27:56.380 this so obviously we're

01:27:58.000 now going to wait and

01:27:58.940 see what happens during

01:27:59.900 the elections but I

01:28:01.200 personally don't have

01:28:02.320 much hope because

01:28:03.520 sadly a lot of people

01:28:05.360 don't realize you know

01:28:07.020 that our governing

01:28:08.220 party the VVD Mark

01:28:09.600 Rutgers party they say

01:28:11.260 that they are right

01:28:12.060 wing you know they're

01:28:13.140 the typical neoliberal

01:28:14.620 globalists of this

01:28:15.640 world and a lot of

01:28:16.740 people who don't read

01:28:17.720 any alternative media

01:28:19.060 will still think that

01:28:21.000 that's true and they

01:28:22.460 think that that's a

01:28:23.240 fair party to vote for

01:28:24.600 so I'm not hopeful that

01:28:27.020 this time around you

01:28:28.940 know that they will lose

01:28:29.860 their majority actually

01:28:31.060 so then the next

01:28:32.120 question is what will

01:28:33.160 they do what will the

01:28:34.600 farmers do are they

01:28:35.340 going to stay afraid of

01:28:37.260 the demonization and

01:28:38.140 the filification that

01:28:39.000 is going on in the

01:28:39.760 mainstream media or

01:28:40.980 will they say enough

01:28:42.220 is enough we don't

01:28:43.180 want to negotiate

01:28:43.920 anymore and we will

01:28:45.520 indeed bring our

01:28:47.000 government to its

01:28:47.880 knees because they have

01:28:49.100 the manpower to do it

01:28:50.040 they are just afraid to

01:28:51.040 use it if they do it

01:28:52.120 again I will I

01:28:53.680 honestly I think that

01:28:54.700 if the Dutch farmers

01:28:55.500 were for example to

01:28:56.980 block the roads to the

01:28:58.840 the port in Rotterdam

01:29:01.320 our haven there and if

01:29:03.360 the fishermen will come

01:29:04.380 from the other side and

01:29:05.660 the dock workers will

01:29:06.780 say we stopped working

01:29:07.920 within a week Margaret

01:29:09.800 will be brought to his

01:29:10.820 knees I'm 100% convinced

01:29:12.720 of that because then

01:29:13.460 they'll start to feel

01:29:14.160 okay so so okay okay so

01:29:16.400 that's starting to get

01:29:17.380 you know that's starting

01:29:18.280 to those those options

01:29:20.080 are starting to become

01:29:20.920 quite radical and I'm

01:29:22.260 I'm not saying anything

01:29:23.420 positive or negative about

01:29:24.540 that at the moment just

01:29:25.600 pointing that out I do

01:29:26.920 have a question though is

01:29:27.920 that if the Dutch

01:29:29.000 government has bringing

01:29:29.820 the police bringing the

01:29:30.940 police and the military to

01:29:32.300 bear on the farmers why

01:29:34.460 are the police and the

01:29:35.840 military cooperating

01:29:36.940 because my sense for

01:29:37.920 example in Canada was

01:29:39.080 that among the military

01:29:40.640 and the police there was

01:29:41.720 a tremendous amount of

01:29:42.680 support for the Canadian

01:29:44.440 truckers fundamentally you

01:29:47.000 know because they're the

01:29:47.560 same people all things

01:29:48.760 considered and and

01:29:50.460 nonetheless the military

01:29:51.680 and the police did their

01:29:52.760 betters bidding which is

01:29:54.060 of course what should

01:29:54.820 happen in a state that's

01:29:55.880 still functioning property

01:29:56.840 but in Holland to what

01:29:59.840 degree are the police and

01:30:01.060 the military as far as you

01:30:02.660 can tell aligned with the

01:30:03.900 government compared to to

01:30:05.300 what degree are they

01:30:06.140 aligned in a more true

01:30:07.240 sense with the farmers and

01:30:08.460 the fishermen and the

01:30:09.100 dock workers so on a lower

01:30:10.700 level what I've noticed

01:30:11.740 yesterday for example at

01:30:12.820 the protest as well the

01:30:13.740 police officers that we

01:30:14.920 have encountered were all

01:30:15.840 incredibly friendly and you

01:30:16.920 could just tell that they

01:30:17.860 loved what we were doing I

01:30:19.420 think that that is probably

01:30:21.180 sadly the reality of our

01:30:22.900 police forces the officer on

01:30:25.380 the street supports the

01:30:26.580 farmers but the top level

01:30:29.100 listens to the

01:30:30.440 establishment and

01:30:31.680 obviously those are the

01:30:32.560 people that call the shots

01:30:33.700 and so younger generation

01:30:35.560 police officers are afraid

01:30:37.660 to lose their job if they

01:30:39.180 stand up against it and

01:30:41.320 obviously you don't you

01:30:42.240 only need a couple of

01:30:43.200 really brave and courageous

01:30:44.260 souls to make some good

01:30:46.260 shots in in those cases

01:30:48.120 with the protests but

01:30:49.100 sadly I think the majority

01:30:51.380 just listens to whomever

01:30:54.080 gives them orders and the

01:30:56.060 top layer of the police

01:30:57.340 forces isn't in the pocket of

01:30:59.000 the state okay so so what

01:31:01.940 would you suggest that

01:31:03.240 people who are watching and

01:31:04.740 listening in the Netherlands

01:31:06.260 what is it that they could

01:31:08.280 do to make their concerns

01:31:09.680 known and how could they

01:31:10.940 express support for the

01:31:12.200 Dutch farmers and and the

01:31:14.940 same thing applies on a

01:31:15.940 broader scale there's going

01:31:16.760 to be people all over the

01:31:17.640 world watching this podcast

01:31:18.800 what would you recommend to

01:31:20.940 people who are watching and

01:31:22.120 listening so that they can

01:31:23.220 stay properly apprised of

01:31:25.540 what's actually going on in

01:31:26.600 the Netherlands given that the

01:31:27.720 legacy media is corrupt

01:31:28.900 beyond comprehension like

01:31:30.540 how do people inform

01:31:31.460 themselves properly and

01:31:32.480 what would the Dutch

01:31:33.580 farmers want to see and

01:31:35.060 need to see in terms of

01:31:36.260 support from people around

01:31:37.420 the world so I think that

01:31:39.080 the international support

01:31:40.060 has been incredibly

01:31:41.320 important to the Dutch

01:31:42.520 farmers because they've

01:31:44.280 seen you know that the

01:31:45.300 world is watching and that

01:31:46.160 they understand that this

01:31:47.080 is something that will

01:31:47.980 eventually you know not

01:31:49.940 just stay a Dutch issue

01:31:51.580 but will spread and and

01:31:53.160 could affect others other

01:31:54.580 nations other people around

01:31:55.840 the world so that support

01:31:57.520 has been incredibly vital

01:31:59.040 what the Dutch people can

01:32:01.080 do first of all they can

01:32:02.060 go and vote vote the

01:32:03.760 current parties out of at

01:32:05.920 least the Senate that

01:32:07.240 would be incredibly

01:32:08.060 important of course in

01:32:09.560 favor of who in favor of

01:32:11.260 who well true opposition

01:32:13.820 parties there are a few

01:32:15.340 left I will not sit here

01:32:17.700 and tell people who to

01:32:18.620 vote for but I would say

01:32:20.440 if any of these parties are

01:32:22.520 in favor of negotiating about

01:32:24.660 the nitrogen crisis or and

01:32:26.500 or expropriating our

01:32:27.500 farmers you shouldn't vote

01:32:28.540 for them that's that's

01:32:29.660 very simple and I think

01:32:31.200 that's a losing strategy

01:32:32.200 to negotiate the power of

01:32:33.900 symbolism is very very

01:32:35.600 important very strong it's

01:32:37.800 it doesn't take much to

01:32:39.020 take your Dutch flag put it

01:32:40.580 on your you know on your

01:32:41.960 window and turn it upside

01:32:42.840 down signify that you are a

01:32:44.700 nation in distress it's

01:32:45.660 become the symbol for the

01:32:46.600 Dutch farmers protest for

01:32:48.020 farmers to see that on the

01:32:49.420 trucker side exactly I think

01:32:51.060 for farmers to see that you

01:32:52.300 know that's a silent sign

01:32:54.260 of support I think will

01:32:55.560 will make them feel like

01:32:57.220 they're not alone can I

01:32:58.580 say something I think

01:32:59.300 that's important yeah of

01:33:00.260 course the the Canadian

01:33:01.880 farmers uh they keep the

01:33:04.120 Dutch farmers uh Canadian

01:33:06.200 truckers Dutch farmers keep

01:33:07.960 bringing them up them up

01:33:09.380 they did yesterday again the

01:33:11.000 guys on stage and whatnot

01:33:12.140 the Canadian farmer example

01:33:14.300 then spread to America which

01:33:15.780 I went with our Canadian

01:33:16.920 our American truckers all the

01:33:18.480 way from California to DC I

01:33:20.060 rode all the way across the

01:33:21.020 country with them and now

01:33:22.360 the Dutch farmers talk about

01:33:23.620 the Canadians that spark was

01:33:25.560 important just note and I'll

01:33:27.640 leave it at that courage is

01:33:28.840 contagious it is that is

01:33:30.940 that's really what we need

01:33:32.180 right now Canadians led the

01:33:33.460 way on that one and it was

01:33:34.440 really an important spark

01:33:35.520 there were a lot of Canadian

01:33:36.400 flags yesterday at the rally

01:33:37.620 too there were yeah there

01:33:39.120 were absolutely because they

01:33:40.380 understand that we're all in

01:33:41.320 the same boat you know the

01:33:42.980 world's upside down when

01:33:44.140 Dutch farmers are protesting

01:33:45.440 and Canadian truckers take the

01:33:47.160 political lead I mean

01:33:48.340 something seriously gone

01:33:49.840 astray well first of all when

01:33:51.300 Canada is even interesting and

01:33:52.860 you know on the political

01:33:53.940 scene and I would say the

01:33:55.020 same thing in some sense

01:33:56.000 about Holland I mean there

01:33:57.520 are a few countries I've ever

01:33:58.700 visited that are more deeply

01:34:00.200 civilized in the most positive

01:34:02.000 positive possible sense than

01:34:04.020 Holland it's an absolutely

01:34:05.620 amazing country an incredible

01:34:08.200 balance of beauty and freedom

01:34:09.980 and order you know and that's so

01:34:12.600 difficult to attain and broad

01:34:14.080 public trust and and all all

01:34:17.300 within that that great acceptance

01:34:19.420 of wide difference in wide range

01:34:21.420 of individual potential for

01:34:24.420 action it's an amazing thing that

01:34:26.220 you people have accomplished as

01:34:27.540 people like I and her ZLE have

01:34:29.220 been at point pains to point out

01:34:30.780 and the same can be said on a

01:34:33.140 somewhat lesser scale of Canada

01:34:35.380 but then when you see the people

01:34:37.760 who are in fact the competent

01:34:40.100 hard-working backbone on the manual

01:34:43.600 labor and productivity side the

01:34:45.420 truckers and the farmers rise up

01:34:46.940 and say you know government has

01:34:48.460 become so intolerable that we can

01:34:49.800 no longer do our job then

01:34:51.720 everyone who's awake in the

01:34:53.680 least whether they're on the

01:34:54.720 right or the left should wake up

01:34:56.100 and think oh my god you know the

01:34:57.560 people who normally do nothing but

01:34:59.220 put their nose to the grindstone

01:35:00.880 are complaining perhaps something

01:35:03.320 seriously wrong that well there is

01:35:05.300 something seriously wrong and if

01:35:07.240 the Dutch farmers lose man there's

01:35:09.020 going to be hell to pay because

01:35:10.180 they're courageous in the extreme

01:35:12.940 competent in the extreme and true

01:35:15.200 canaries in the coal mine and I

01:35:16.900 think the most likely outcome at

01:35:18.340 the moment sad to say is that the

01:35:20.000 the Dutch government will keep

01:35:21.720 grinding away on its in its

01:35:23.800 incremental fashion and it will

01:35:25.360 pick them off one by one and they'll

01:35:27.320 reduce the damn Dutch farmer

01:35:28.740 population to 50 percent devastate the

01:35:31.000 agricultural sector and that'll

01:35:32.900 produce shock waves of dismay across

01:35:35.600 the otherwise across the western world

01:35:39.100 among those who might otherwise

01:35:40.380 object and it'll also produce a

01:35:42.760 terrible catastrophe on the food and

01:35:44.540 tyranny front so this is a

01:35:46.440 watershed moment as far as I'm

01:35:47.940 concerned if this were a lost war I

01:35:49.900 would not even be here they can

01:35:51.580 definitely win but they have to go

01:35:53.100 offensive they will absolutely lose

01:35:55.140 if they stay defensive and you

01:35:56.700 talked about the polder kultur which

01:35:58.520 is the the culture of negotiation and

01:36:01.820 which the anthropologists who

01:36:04.620 specialized in information who

01:36:06.340 specialized in information war they

01:36:08.360 will find these weaknesses in the

01:36:09.800 culture like the polder the polder

01:36:11.540 kultur which is you know fine

01:36:13.140 compromise that's the same in

01:36:14.980 Japan that's the same with

01:36:16.060 Canadians the strongest part of the

01:36:18.460 Canadian culture and the Dutch

01:36:20.360 culture and the Japanese culture is

01:36:22.300 it's highly civilized that makes you

01:36:24.240 highly vulnerable to savages

01:36:26.200 well Michael you know there are

01:36:28.060 there are simulations of this sort of

01:36:30.480 thing that have been played out

01:36:31.820 biologists by biologists on large

01:36:34.320 scale trying to account for the

01:36:36.420 persistence of narcissism and

01:36:38.780 psychopathy Machiavellianism and so

01:36:40.740 forth that that manipulative attitude

01:36:43.600 and often manipulative people and

01:36:46.540 what happens is if you produce a

01:36:48.440 population of people who do nothing

01:36:50.080 but cooperate they can cooperate like

01:36:52.680 mad and that can be extraordinarily

01:36:54.020 productive but if you drop a single

01:36:55.940 shark into the tank a tank full of

01:36:58.600 cooperators the shark takes

01:37:00.540 everything and so on the one hand

01:37:03.460 that willingness to negotiate and

01:37:05.200 agree can be the driver of civil society

01:37:08.160 but the problem is is that it opens up

01:37:10.660 the it opens up a niche for the

01:37:13.300 manipulative psychopaths to play a

01:37:15.100 winner take all take all game and they

01:37:17.540 do do that precisely by exploiting the

01:37:20.340 weak part of cooperation go ahead yeah

01:37:22.660 that's why I don't mind in this day and

01:37:24.820 age you know where evil is so prevalent

01:37:26.380 to be called a radical I don't mind to

01:37:28.580 be called a radical in the fight against

01:37:30.240 evil and I think that is really the fight

01:37:31.700 that we're fighting right now so to be

01:37:33.420 moderate in the face of evil it means

01:37:35.180 that evil will win and our government

01:37:37.460 our country thank you for your kind

01:37:39.600 words about my country because I

01:37:40.940 completely full heartedly agree with

01:37:43.240 you we have such a rich history we're

01:37:45.500 such a beautiful nation and yesterday

01:37:47.680 at the rally when I was giving my

01:37:49.100 speech I said this as well the fact

01:37:51.160 that we have a government that has

01:37:53.360 launched an attack on its own people you

01:37:55.620 know that has turned on its own people

01:37:57.220 to me is some of the worst kinds of

01:37:59.300 injustice that you can find like

01:38:00.840 imaginable and and and so we really

01:38:03.400 need to put up a fight against that

01:38:05.020 it's a captured government as is

01:38:06.800 Trudeau he's he's he's Ruta's boy

01:38:09.120 Ruta here the prime minister of

01:38:11.060 lapdogs there is this is a captured

01:38:14.340 country the government is captured it

01:38:16.100 has it cannot exist with this

01:38:18.280 government I mean this government is

01:38:20.120 captured by the way they call it the

01:38:21.620 WEF here right and the WEF and the

01:38:23.320 CCP are co-sanguinated I used to look

01:38:25.160 at them as cooperating but it's very

01:38:26.940 clear that they're that they're so

01:38:28.620 entwined that they're one at this point

01:38:30.660 later they'll fight each other but yeah

01:38:32.600 it's very important to to it's time to

01:38:36.660 put your game faces on you know what I

01:38:38.580 mean it's time to stop negotiating it's

01:38:40.700 time to stop being polite it's time to

01:38:43.020 say you out and that's it I mean you're

01:38:46.060 going out one way or the other or it's

01:38:48.540 gonna are you gonna lose and you're

01:38:49.700 gonna be slaves all right well that's

01:38:53.080 probably a high note so to speak to end

01:38:55.780 on very dismal and dark conversation in

01:38:58.960 many ways and but it's an extension of

01:39:01.120 the sorts of conversations we've had in

01:39:02.560 the past Michael and I do wish the dark

01:39:05.080 Dutch farmers well I mean I really can't

01:39:07.160 think of a more reliable substrata of a

01:39:09.720 more reliable population in the world and

01:39:12.060 so when they're upset enough to take

01:39:13.960 their tractors to the Hague something

01:39:15.840 rotten is going on that's deep and

01:39:17.740 pervasive and and I think people around

01:39:19.580 the world should wake up and smell the

01:39:21.500 coffee so to speak before there's no

01:39:23.100 coffee to smell and we're closer to that

01:39:25.560 than people realize and so thank you

01:39:28.300 very much for your time and attention

01:39:30.100 and contributions today and for all the

01:39:32.640 things that you're doing around the

01:39:33.820 world Michael and in Netherlands the

01:39:35.480 same to you Ava appreciate you talking

01:39:37.500 to me today for all you watching and

01:39:39.100 listening you know keep your ears to

01:39:41.140 the ground and your eyes peeled because

01:39:42.800 you should know what the hell's going on

01:39:44.620 in Europe in places like Holland

01:39:46.120 especially with regards to this protest

01:39:48.140 because there's something brewing there

01:39:50.120 that's a microcosm of a much larger

01:39:52.320 struggle that's for sure and so we're

01:39:54.920 going to turn now to the daily wear plus

01:39:57.320 side of the platform I'm going to talk

01:39:59.420 to Eva and Michael for another half an

01:40:02.300 hour delve a bit more into their

01:40:04.220 autobiographical history so I can get to

01:40:06.140 know them better thanks to the daily

01:40:08.360 wear plus people for facilitating this

01:40:10.120 conversation and also for helping send

01:40:11.960 Michael to the Netherlands which was very

01:40:13.820 helpful obvious in relationship to this

01:40:15.680 conversation and those of you who are

01:40:19.320 watching might consider popping over to

01:40:21.320 the daily wire plus platform to catch the

01:40:23.080 last half an hour of of our interaction

01:40:25.180 and all right so thank you all to all who

01:40:29.460 are watching listening I'm in Puebla Mexico

01:40:31.440 at the moment thank you to the film crew

01:40:33.000 here for facilitating this that's much

01:40:34.600 appreciated and to all those of you

01:40:36.660 watching listening ciao and we'll see you

01:40:38.740 in the next podcast and then we'll turn

01:40:40.560 over to the to the next half hour thanks

01:40:43.100 very much Michael and Eva hello everyone I

01:40:46.840 would encourage you to continue listening to

01:40:48.820 my conversation with my guest on daily wire

01:40:51.980 plus dot com

01:40:53.220 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - March 16, 2023

340. Dutch Farmers： Canaries in the Globalist Coal Mine ｜ Michael Yon & Eva Vlaardingerbroek

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