The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 347. Parental Trauma in a World of Gender Insanity ｜ Miriam Grossman MD

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:12.740 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

00:00:20.100 With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.

00:00:27.420 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.

00:00:35.360 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.

00:00:41.780 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.

00:00:47.460 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.

00:00:57.420 Hello everybody. I'm speaking today to Dr. Miriam Grossman, who I first encountered as a consequence of watching Matt Walsh's documentary,

00:01:17.240 What is a Woman?, where she made quite a spectacular appearance. 1.00

00:01:20.840 Miriam Grossman, MD, is a physician, author, and public speaker. 0.97

00:01:24.560 She has been vocal for many years about the capture of her profession, psychiatry, by ideologues leading to dangerous and experimental treatments on children and betrayal of parents.

00:01:37.140 As I said, Dr. Grossman was featured in the Daily Wire's hit documentary, What is a Woman? 0.87

00:01:42.100 She's the author of four books, and her work has been translated into 11 languages.

00:01:47.340 After graduating with honors from Bryn Mawr College, Dr. Grossman attended New York University Med School.

00:01:53.080 She completed an internship in pediatrics at Beth Israel Hospital in New York,

00:01:58.380 and a residency in psychiatry through Cornell Medical College, followed by a fellowship in child and adolescent psychiatry.

00:02:07.360 Dr. Grossman is board-certified in psychiatry and in the subspecialty of child and adolescent psychiatry.

00:02:15.300 And so I thought it would be interesting, especially given our shared interest as well in clinical matters,

00:02:22.120 because Dr. Grossman is a practicing clinician.

00:02:26.060 I thought it would be interesting to have a further conversation.

00:02:29.000 So that's what we're doing today.

00:02:30.360 She wrote, You're Teaching My Child What? back in 2009.

00:02:34.720 It's pretty damn early, all things considered.

00:02:36.900 And she has a new book coming out later this year.

00:02:39.780 It's already available for pre-order.

00:02:41.220 You can check that out in the video description via URL link there.

00:02:46.780 It's called Lost in Transnation, A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness. 0.91

00:02:52.800 And so out of the madness, that's pretty forthright terminology, you might say.

00:02:57.560 So why don't we start on the biographical side a bit?

00:03:01.820 You started to become concerned about the issues you've been writing and speaking about, well, obviously before 2009,

00:03:09.500 because you wrote a book in 2009, and that usually takes a year or two.

00:03:13.680 And so you're an early observer of things going seriously sideways on the clinical front.

00:03:20.200 And so let's go back to, well, the decade of the 2000s.

00:03:25.820 What were you seeing, and why do you think you were concerned about it when so many of your colleagues, my colleagues,

00:03:33.240 are still not concerned about it, let's say?

00:03:36.040 Yes.

00:03:37.140 Well, what happened is that I was researching sex education and what young people are taught in their sex education.

00:03:45.780 And I was doing that because I was working with students at UCLA at the time.

00:03:51.140 And there was such an alarming degree of sexually transmitted infections and abortions and so on

00:04:01.000 that I was curious to know exactly what kids are being taught about sexuality.

00:04:08.280 And I was quite shocked to see what they were being taught.

00:04:14.840 But one of the things that shocked me, I think, more than anything, was I discovered this, I like to call it a belief system

00:04:24.680 or an ideology of gender that kids were being told that there's something called gender, which is separate from sex.

00:04:39.160 And it's sort of like a psychological sex and that a person can have a gender that's at odds with their physical reality

00:04:50.260 and that that is normal and healthy.

00:04:53.840 And in fact, it's wonderful to explore what your gender might be and so on and so forth,

00:05:00.360 all the things that we know about that are being said right now.

00:05:03.600 And that, I mean, I just couldn't believe it.

00:05:09.620 I couldn't believe that.

00:05:12.080 First of all, you know, it's not so.

00:05:16.280 You cannot simply claim that you can divorce your identity from your physical reality

00:05:26.940 and all that is just all fine and good.

00:05:31.960 That's dangerous.

00:05:32.940 And I knew from the second that I saw it, I was very concerned about the destabilizing

00:05:41.640 and confusing effect that that would have on young people.

00:05:46.120 I mean, we want, as you know, in psychiatry and psychology,

00:05:53.020 we want people to have a stable identity.

00:05:58.160 People want to know who they are.

00:06:00.800 They don't want to be confused about who they are.

00:06:02.960 And they certainly don't want to be confused about something as important

00:06:06.740 as whether they're male or female.

00:06:10.360 And so...

00:06:11.400 When the pronoun legislation came out in Canada, Bill C-16,

00:06:17.920 which mandated gender-ideological-related pronoun usage,

00:06:25.320 well, in personal conversation,

00:06:28.300 I told the Canadian Senate that that would cause enough confusion

00:06:34.240 to produce a psychological epidemic among young women 0.98

00:06:38.500 because the literature on that's quite clear going back several hundred years.

00:06:42.000 And I think you can make a pretty strong case,

00:06:44.800 and you do this to some degree in your book in Chapter 7,

00:06:47.440 that there are few more fundamental perceptual categories than male and female.

00:06:55.280 I think they might be, that category system might be as fundamental as up or down,

00:07:00.880 or black and white, or light and dark.

00:07:03.320 Those would be the only ones that I can think of that are in the same,

00:07:06.600 at the same depth of cognitive necessity, perceptual necessity.

00:07:11.560 You know, one of the things that people tend to think when they think casually

00:07:15.060 is that if you have more choice, you have more freedom,

00:07:19.160 and more choice and more freedom is always good.

00:07:21.740 But the problem with that is that a plethora of choice,

00:07:26.040 so excess choice, excess option,

00:07:29.320 produces not freedom but anxiety

00:07:32.280 because there's only a limited amount of information

00:07:36.060 that you can deal with at any given moment.

00:07:38.760 And if people are put in a situation where everything is up for grabs,

00:07:44.400 they're not free, they're terrified.

00:07:47.080 And that's part of the reason, as far as I can tell,

00:07:49.240 why rates of depression and anxiety among young people have skyrocketed recent years,

00:07:53.520 especially among young women who are also the ones

00:07:56.220 who are most likely to fall prey to psychological epidemics in general,

00:08:00.220 and the one that we're in now specifically.

00:08:02.620 And I certainly agree with that.

00:08:07.900 And especially when one of those many choices

00:08:10.640 that we're providing to young people is to deny reality.

00:08:15.140 So it's not just that we're providing them with too many choices.

00:08:19.040 You know, like when you walk down the cereal aisle

00:08:22.460 and there's like 200 different kinds of cereal

00:08:24.960 and you get dizzy from it.

00:08:26.380 That's not what we're talking about.

00:08:27.780 We're talking about one of the options here

00:08:29.860 is to actually deny reality.

00:08:31.800 And it's not, I would even go further than that.

00:08:35.780 There's a celebration of denying reality.

00:08:40.120 There's a celebration of being confused.

00:08:43.680 Now, you'll note that in the, you know,

00:08:46.740 that LGBTQ includes that Q. 0.52

00:08:52.480 And I think that's very important to look at.

00:08:55.260 When you include the letter Q in the list of different identities,

00:08:59.900 LGBTQ and then plus, the Q stands for questioning. 0.97

00:09:05.740 Now, since when can questioning actually be an identity?

00:09:10.360 And the meaning of identity is that it's something that is more or less fixed.

00:09:18.880 Not that it's something that's a big question mark.

00:09:21.880 Well, identity, it would be useful to delve into that too,

00:09:27.480 because people don't really understand what an identity does. 0.99

00:09:33.220 And we have lapsed into this idiot subjectivity 0.99

00:09:37.440 that's predicated on the assumption that you are whatever you feel. 0.99

00:09:43.200 Now, first of all, that's a very bad measurement

00:09:45.260 from a scientific or clinical perspective,

00:09:47.520 because you never rely as a good clinician merely on what people feel.

00:09:52.260 You need multiple converging sources of evidence to make a diagnosis.

00:09:56.860 But the second part is more relevant,

00:10:00.180 which is that your identity is actually a framework

00:10:03.980 of attentional prioritization and action

00:10:06.760 that enables you to function well in the natural and social environments.

00:10:11.220 You could say the psychological, natural, and social environments.

00:10:15.000 And what you feel you are is not going to be a useful identity

00:10:19.500 if it's not integrated with other people.

00:10:23.320 You know, Piaget pointed out, for example,

00:10:26.040 that developmental psychologists,

00:10:27.460 that children have to integrate their ability to play in a social context.

00:10:33.920 They have to negotiate an identity,

00:10:35.900 even when they're just playing a game with their friends.

00:10:38.060 And identity itself is socially negotiated,

00:10:41.840 which the lefties should know,

00:10:43.020 because they're all bang on about constructivism constantly.

00:10:46.840 And so the idea that identity is only subjective

00:10:49.980 and that it's only defined by what you feel is unethical.

00:10:54.560 That's an unethical stance for clinicians to adopt,

00:10:56.860 but it's also completely impractical,

00:10:58.620 because your identity is the game you play with your intimate partner.

00:11:03.920 It's the game you play with your family.

00:11:05.620 It's the game you play with your community.

00:11:07.240 Like, you have to be nested socially at multiple levels of the social hierarchy

00:11:12.400 in order to have a functional identity,

00:11:14.400 and then to replace that with merely what you feel

00:11:18.300 and to enforce that by fiat.

00:11:20.800 Well, the only thing that could be more counterproductive than that

00:11:23.780 is, as you pointed out,

00:11:26.080 an identity that's only based on questioning,

00:11:28.340 which is just a pathway to, you know, existential angst and hopelessness.

00:11:32.700 Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight.

00:11:39.260 Most of the time, you'll probably be fine,

00:11:41.240 but what if one day that weird yellow mask drops down from overhead

00:11:44.620 and you have no idea what to do?

00:11:46.920 In our hyper-connected world, your digital privacy isn't just a luxury.

00:11:50.700 It's a fundamental right.

00:11:51.880 Every time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe, hotel, or airport,

00:11:56.320 you're essentially broadcasting your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept it.

00:12:01.360 And let's be clear, it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this.

00:12:04.560 With some off-the-shelf hardware,

00:12:06.140 even a tech-savvy teenager could potentially access your passwords,

00:12:09.700 bank logins, and credit card details.

00:12:11.940 Now, you might think,

00:12:13.220 what's the big deal?

00:12:14.040 Who'd want my data anyway?

00:12:15.320 Well, on the dark web, your personal information could fetch up to $1,000.

00:12:20.220 That's right, there's a whole underground economy built on stolen identities.

00:12:24.280 Enter ExpressVPN.

00:12:26.040 It's like a digital fortress,

00:12:27.500 creating an encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet.

00:12:30.720 Their encryption is so robust that it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to crack it.

00:12:36.320 But don't let its power fool you.

00:12:38.180 ExpressVPN is incredibly user-friendly.

00:12:40.500 With just one click, you're protected across all your devices.

00:12:43.240 Phones, laptops, tablets, you name it.

00:12:45.760 That's why I use ExpressVPN whenever I'm traveling or working from a coffee shop.

00:12:49.880 It gives me peace of mind knowing that my research, communications, and personal data are shielded from prying eyes.

00:12:55.860 Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash jordan.

00:13:00.600 That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash jordan,

00:13:04.500 and you can get an extra three months free.

00:13:07.000 ExpressVPN dot com slash jordan.

00:13:08.860 Well, we have to acknowledge that aside from being unethical and confusing,

00:13:17.080 it's extremely dangerous because it puts...

00:13:21.060 Well, yes.

00:13:21.620 And we have to always keep that in front of us.

00:13:27.300 You know, I spend a lot of time talking with families, parents, kids, and people who have been through this ordeal.

00:13:37.840 And so I always have in front of me, Dr. Peterson, their faces and their words.

00:13:48.060 And one of the reasons that I wanted to do this interview with you is to give those people a voice.

00:13:57.760 There's a whole population of individuals, and I'm speaking here.

00:14:01.600 People have already talked about the detransitioners, and you had Chloe Cole on, which was amazing.

00:14:07.860 But I want to speak about a different population, and that is the parents.

00:14:13.320 The parents of these young people who have fallen into, I'm going to say, this darkness and this confusion.

00:14:24.680 These parents are traumatized.

00:14:32.880 And let me just tell you a little story.

00:14:36.420 A few years ago, I joined a support group, an online support group of parents who were new,

00:14:49.740 whose kids had recently announced that they were the opposite sex or neither sex.

00:14:56.820 And, you know, there are these private Facebook groups and other groups that parents attend,

00:15:04.180 and they generally are anonymous, and they have to be vetted.

00:15:08.800 And, you know, there's this huge process that they have to go through that takes weeks and weeks

00:15:14.860 in order to get the support that they need.

00:15:18.740 Because our profession, the mental health profession, is not giving them—our profession is demonizing them.

00:15:27.080 So they have to go—

00:15:28.320 You're saying demonizing the parents who are concerned about what's happening to their kids on the gender education front?

00:15:33.880 Yes, the parents that will not immediately, you know, jump into affirmation,

00:15:40.420 and that are feeling very strongly that this is not, you know, the real issue.

00:15:47.240 That the real issue is that the child has underlying trauma or autism or anxiety or what have you.

00:15:54.880 The real issue may be that the family has had a lot of—you know, there's been crisis

00:16:00.840 or there's been losses or deaths or COVID or what have you.

00:16:04.380 And the family is saying, look, my child is now saying that, you know, that they're transgender,

00:16:11.360 but I really feel that there's other things going on here.

00:16:14.740 Why are you immediately giving us a referral to an endocrinologist for blockers and testosterone?

00:16:22.840 And those parents are traumatized because—well, they're traumatized for lots of reasons.

00:16:30.280 Okay, let's list their traumas, and I have a whole chapter about this in my book.

00:16:35.540 Because honestly, Dr. Peterson, I am so troubled by how these parents have been treated and are being treated

00:16:45.100 by the mental health profession, by the medical profession, by the media.

00:16:51.480 Yeah, well, you know, the most common problem that I've seen emerge out of that is this.

00:16:59.240 So the American Psychological Association announced in its Guidelines for Gender-Affirming Care

00:17:04.360 that there were no valid long-term studies of the psychological consequences of transitioning.

00:17:09.880 And they attributed that to the prejudice on the part of clinicians and researchers against the trans community,

00:17:15.920 which is, of course, an absolutely preposterous accusation.

00:17:20.900 But be that as it may.

00:17:23.500 But then three or four pages later, they said, well, you know, the evidence is very clear

00:17:26.920 that if you don't help people transition early, that their mental health outcome is much worse,

00:17:31.860 including the risk for suicide.

00:17:33.260 Now, both of those can't be true.

00:17:35.820 We can't have an absolute dearth of long-term follow-up studies on the gender transformation front

00:17:41.000 because of prejudice in the research field,

00:17:43.260 and know without a doubt that youthful transition is the best pathway to mental health,

00:17:48.800 which it most certainly and 100% is not. 0.99

00:17:52.560 But that hasn't stopped idiot coward psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, etc., 1.00

00:17:58.640 from saying such things to parents as, well, would you rather have a dead child or a live trans child? 1.00

00:18:09.780 And so they put that at the feet of the parents, which is, well, if you object to this,

00:18:14.380 then all you're doing is increasing the suicide risk for your troubled child,

00:18:19.700 which is about as cruel a thing as you could possibly say to parents.

00:18:24.760 I can't imagine something more manipulative and also something so ungrounded in anything approximating clinical fact.

00:18:33.740 Now, it is the case, perhaps, that a young woman who is troubled emotionally,

00:18:39.520 who takes testosterone might feel a momentary improvement in mood

00:18:44.120 that's a consequence of the physiological effects of the testosterone.

00:18:48.040 But there's no evidence whatsoever that that's actually linked to the gender transition process.

00:18:52.700 Now, you don't see the same elevation in mood, by the way,

00:18:56.240 as far as I've been able to tell from the research literature,

00:18:58.860 in the case of boys who are transitioning to girls.

00:19:02.000 And that also indicates that it's more than likely pharmacological.

00:19:05.720 But it is the case that the medical profession, the counseling profession,

00:19:09.580 has been enticed into this situation and also compelled by legislation,

00:19:13.980 gender-affirming care legislation,

00:19:15.920 to outright lie to parents about the relative risks.

00:19:19.480 And you know, like I know, that these kids who are gender dysphoric,

00:19:24.660 their underlying condition is something in the broader depression-anxiety realm

00:19:30.200 and that the gender dysphoria is only a variant expression of that underlying broader psychopathology.

00:19:37.840 So, if we look at what's happened in our conversation here just the past few minutes,

00:19:45.760 we can see the pattern of what is happening on a broader scale in all these discussions,

00:19:52.740 which is that we always return to the child.

00:19:56.380 Now, I'm not saying, of course, we have to talk about the kids.

00:20:00.220 Obviously, we have to talk about the kids.

00:20:02.260 But we have to talk about the parents and what all this is doing to families.

00:20:08.780 It's a destabling, destructive event in the family.

00:20:16.360 It's an ordeal that they'll have to go through for years and years.

00:20:21.860 And, you know, the way that I'm going to describe it to you,

00:20:26.020 I don't know if you saw the movie Gone with the Wind,

00:20:29.740 but there's an iconic scene in Gone with the Wind,

00:20:35.500 and I'm going to use the description of that scene to help you understand where I'm coming from.

00:20:42.580 So, the scene that I'm talking about is when Scarlett O'Hara is panicked

00:20:47.940 because Melanie is going to have a baby.

00:20:52.180 And she runs to find the doctor to help with the delivery of the baby.

00:20:57.360 And she goes, in order to find the doctor, she goes to this,

00:21:01.300 it's like a makeshift hospital on the grounds of a train station.

00:21:06.620 And you see Scarlett O'Hara walking through this just massive area of hundreds,

00:21:18.220 thousands of injured, moaning, you know, bleeding soldiers.

00:21:26.360 And some of them are dead.

00:21:28.320 And a lot of them are being carried away on stretchers.

00:21:31.180 And they're moaning and they're calling out to her.

00:21:34.260 Well, Dr. Peterson, that's what I'm seeing.

00:21:46.300 That's what I'm hearing.

00:21:47.560 All the families.

00:21:49.620 Remember, for every kid that has fallen into the gender ideology trap,

00:21:58.580 or whatever we're going to call it, the ideology, the pit,

00:22:01.400 there are lots of other people, not just parents, there's siblings, there's grandparents,

00:22:09.200 there's aunts and uncles and cousins.

00:22:11.620 There's a huge ripple effect on people.

00:22:16.840 And we need to see that because it's not only the kids that are the casualties,

00:22:21.680 the parents, the parents, the parents have trauma and they are grieving.

00:22:29.240 And it's all, none of it is acknowledged except by each other in these secret groups that they have.

00:22:37.260 And so what I did about a year and a half ago, I felt so troubled by what I saw going on.

00:22:44.860 And all these people calling me and, well, not calling me, but emailing me and, you know,

00:22:50.680 the parents and I'd meet them and hear their stories and see their anguish.

00:22:56.480 And, you know, a lot of their anguish was over my colleagues, my colleagues in medicine.

00:23:05.860 So I felt that I wanted to speak to these parents, not just individually, but as a group.

00:23:13.820 So I'm in touch with a lot of the parents of ROGD kids.

00:23:19.520 And we arranged an online Zoom.

00:23:23.580 An ROGD, ROGD is what?

00:23:27.500 Rapid onset gender dysphoria.

00:23:30.540 Yes, yes.

00:23:31.580 Right, right.

00:23:32.340 That's the psychogenic epidemic.

00:23:34.840 Correct.

00:23:35.580 Okay, so you arranged.

00:23:37.800 Yeah.

00:23:38.220 These are not the kids who, like Jazz Jennings, for example, from the age of two,

00:23:43.320 is, you know, comes to their parents and says, you know, I'm the opposite sex.

00:23:46.780 This is a whole other thing.

00:23:48.000 This is a social contagion.

00:23:51.480 It's fueled by social media.

00:23:54.120 Lisa Lipman described it.

00:23:55.540 I'm sure that you've had other people probably discuss that.

00:23:58.400 But, yeah, so I did a few Zooms with the parents, 50, 60 parents.

00:24:06.300 And I did it as much for them as for myself, honestly.

00:24:11.060 I really felt that I needed to say a few things to them.

00:24:14.340 And the gist of what I told them was I wanted to acknowledge the horrific ordeal that they're going through.

00:24:26.100 I wanted to acknowledge the trauma that they are going through.

00:24:31.120 Real trauma.

00:24:31.820 I'm not using that word, you know, people talk about, you know, being triggered from some little thing and they get upset.

00:24:39.640 You know, they got a bad haircut or something.

00:24:41.880 They got triggered.

00:24:42.560 I'm not talking about that.

00:24:43.780 Their equestrian hat doesn't fit.

00:24:46.340 Right.

00:24:47.080 That's the newest one.

00:24:47.940 Yeah.

00:24:48.060 Okay, this is genuine, you know, this is genuine post-traumatic stress disorder, but it's not post.

00:24:57.340 They're still going through it.

00:25:00.100 The trauma is ongoing.

00:25:02.880 Okay, day after day and week after week and sometimes year after year.

00:25:08.080 So they have a stress disorder and they also have grief from their losses.

00:25:17.680 And so when I went on to that Zoom with them, I wanted to recognize that because my profession is not recognizing it.

00:25:28.460 And I thought that it was important that they hear from a psychiatrist that I knew how traumatized they were and how many losses and how much grief they were dealing with.

00:25:43.580 And that I knew that my profession has abandoned them, by and large.

00:25:49.100 Are there exceptions?

00:25:50.100 Well, of course, there's exceptions.

00:25:51.720 But by and large, if you look at the mainstream authorities, right, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the Endocrine Society, the American Medical Association, on and on and on.

00:26:08.280 We have abandoned these parents and their children, I believe.

00:26:13.600 But I'm just talking about the parents.

00:26:15.240 How do you account for that, the fact that in such short order, all of these high-level governing bodies and associations, not only on the psychological front, but as you pointed out, on the psychiatric and medical front, have gone full, have announced their full support for all of the presuppositions that are producing this psychological epidemic?

00:26:40.200 I mean, how do you understand that?

00:26:42.320 And how did you see it make itself manifest in 2009?

00:26:47.340 Yeah.

00:26:48.540 Can I want to go just go back?

00:26:51.220 I didn't finish with my talks to the parents.

00:26:53.700 Oh, please do finish that.

00:26:55.760 Yeah, I just want to finish that one part.

00:26:58.560 So what I, you know, I was looking at my screen, you know, at the grid of all the different, the parents that were listening in.

00:27:10.220 And I said to them that as a psychiatrist, I am acknowledging the ordeal, the terrible ordeal they're going through, and that they have experienced and are experiencing trauma.

00:27:23.460 And when you're, you know, your daughter comes home and her voice has dropped and she's growing facial hair, that's traumatic.

00:27:30.600 Starting a business can be tough, but thanks to Shopify, running your online storefront is easier than ever.

00:27:39.380 Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.

00:27:43.660 From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage, Shopify is here to help you grow.

00:27:50.220 Our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise, and we love how easy it is to add more items, ship products, and track conversions.

00:27:58.700 With Shopify, customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful tools, alongside an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing, accounting, and chatbots.

00:28:10.240 Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout, up to 36% better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms.

00:28:18.000 No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level.

00:28:25.020 Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp, all lowercase.

00:28:30.980 Go to shopify.com slash jbp now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in.

00:28:36.300 That's shopify.com slash jbp.

00:28:38.660 And when your son comes down the stairs to go to the prom, wearing a dress and heels and makeup, that's traumatic.

00:28:54.460 And worse, of course, there's much worse than those things.

00:29:00.380 You know, when you learn that your daughter is scheduled to have a mastectomy, when you learn that your son is having genital surgery and their kids are going to be sterilized, and you're not going to have grandchildren.

00:29:13.120 These things are traumatic and they are losses.

00:29:16.240 And I apologized on behalf, not that anyone from my profession chose me to speak for them, but I decided that I wanted to do that.

00:29:31.780 And I apologized.

00:29:32.940 And I looked out, I looked at that grid, you know, when you're doing a Zoom and there's a lot of people there.

00:29:40.620 And I noticed that almost, you know, more than half the cameras, 80% of the cameras were turned off.

00:29:49.380 I could only see really a few faces.

00:29:53.040 And at the time, I really, I didn't know why that would have been.

00:29:57.300 I thought maybe, you know, they're in the kitchen or they're busy or, I really didn't know.

00:30:03.580 And then I found out later on, Dr. Peterson, that their cameras were off because they were crying.

00:30:12.020 Uh-huh.

00:30:12.700 They were crying just to hear a professional, a mental health professional, say to them, yeah, yeah, you're traumatized.

00:30:29.320 You are dealing with grief, with serious grief, just like the trauma of someone that went through a natural disaster or 9-11.

00:30:40.120 Just like the trauma of parents who are told their kid has cancer.

00:30:45.600 No less than that.

00:30:46.980 And in fact, more complicated than that.

00:30:50.560 Because your trauma and grief is not acknowledged.

00:30:55.380 It's disenfranchised.

00:30:57.420 And as you know, disenfranchised grief, complicated grief, is much more difficult to live with, to deal with, and to heal with.

00:31:08.340 So when you have a terrible loss and grief, and you can't even share it with people at work, or maybe even your own family,

00:31:24.260 and maybe your other children are endorsing the unreality and are using the new name and pronouns.

00:31:34.260 Maybe even your parents, maybe even your spouse is.

00:31:36.760 And so some of these parents are living with such deep loneliness in their grief.

00:31:43.160 And I just feel a calling to speak out for those parents and to give them a voice.

00:31:55.140 Because they are terrified to be identified, most of them.

00:32:01.740 They, for various reasons, they don't want to be recognized for their beliefs in terms of their profession.

00:32:10.260 They don't, they're still hoping that their child is going to desist and come out of the gender confusion. 0.61

00:32:18.520 And they don't want their child to be aware that they're speaking out.

00:32:23.620 So, when I speak to parents, you have to understand, they're very often in their cars.

00:32:30.180 They're in the basement.

00:32:31.640 They're in the garage.

00:32:33.360 They're in their bathrooms, whispering.

00:32:35.400 So, you're not speaking merely of disenfranchised grief.

00:32:42.860 So, we could define that as someone isolated who's unable to pour out their heart, let's say, to anyone who's willing to listen.

00:32:50.340 You're actually talking about demonized grief. 0.99

00:32:52.940 Because the understory here is that in our current political and ideological climate, if you dare to grieve about the fact that your child is being pushed towards surgical sterilization by idiot ideologues, then not only is that inappropriate, it's positively morally unacceptable. 0.98

00:33:14.000 Because, apparently, this is something that all good-thinking people, including parents, should only celebrate. 1.00

00:33:21.300 And if you oppose it in any manner whatsoever, not only is that inappropriate, it's positive evidence that you're a bigoted, misogynistic, exclusionary, racist, homophobe. 0.95

00:33:32.600 All the satanic adjectives you can possibly imagine are going to be dumped on you. 0.96

00:33:36.040 So, it's worse than mere disenfranchisement. 0.97

00:33:39.340 And that you are the reason that your child's mental health has plummeted.

00:33:44.380 Right.

00:33:44.660 You are the reason, if your child makes a suicide, it is your fault for not affirming that child immediately.

00:33:52.080 And what I have in my book is advice for parents on how to deal with that.

00:33:58.860 For example, if they have to admit their child to the hospital for a suicide attempt, how to talk with the staff at the hospital about this issue.

00:34:08.720 When the staff is going to sit down with them, the treatment team is going to sit down with the parents and say,

00:34:14.380 well, you know, you really, you have to affirm your child.

00:34:18.880 This is why your child is trying to commit suicide.

00:34:21.460 So, I give parents very detailed advice on that conversation that they need to have with the staff at the hospital or with their therapist or at the schools.

00:34:36.020 You know, I am, what I'm trying to do is to provide parents with the tools that they need in order, you know,

00:34:43.660 they're trying to protect their child, not only against the ideology, but against all the institutions that we used to trust.

00:34:54.040 Our schools, our mental health, medicine, the field of medicine, hospitals, you know, the list goes on and on.

00:35:03.560 Those institutions that we used to trust, parents need the ammunition and the wherewithal and the confidence to be able to go to them and say,

00:35:15.260 well, hold on a minute, let me just tell you about A, B, C, and D.

00:35:21.320 And I give them the information that they need.

00:35:24.800 So, there is no consensus on this issue.

00:35:27.560 You know, parents and everyone is being led to believe that there's a consensus on this issue of how do we take care of these kids.

00:35:39.100 There is no consensus.

00:35:41.660 There is an all-out war going on on a professional level that no one is hearing about

00:35:51.320 because it's not being covered outside of people like yourself and other, you know, conservative media,

00:35:57.680 is covering the fact that there is an international debate going on

00:36:02.400 and that there are countries who have made a 180,

00:36:05.280 the most liberal LGBT-friendly countries, such as Finland and Sweden and England,

00:36:13.280 as you know, have made a 180 in this direction and so that a child living in Stockholm or Oslo

00:36:23.280 is not going to be able to get those puberty blockers and that testosterone without, in general, cannot get them

00:36:31.940 if they are entered into, you know, a very rare instance in which they perhaps are part of a study

00:36:41.800 in which they're closely going to be monitored and watched and given a lot of psychotherapy and so on and so forth.

00:36:48.080 But in general, kids are not going to be able to access those treatments.

00:36:53.360 Whereas in this country, in this country, you walk in and get blockers after half an hour.

00:36:59.440 In this country, you walk into Planned Parenthood.

00:37:02.420 Planned Parenthood has been particularly pathological on that front.

00:37:05.840 They had a gender euphoria promotion advertising to kids the ease of access and low cost of the minimal counseling 0.50

00:37:19.200 necessary to start them on puberty blockers, which then turns into hormone therapy,

00:37:23.620 which then generally leads down the garden path to surgery.

00:37:26.220 This advice for parents, is this in your 2009 book, Your Teaching My Child What, or in your new book, Lost in Transnation?

00:37:35.000 No, no. It's coming up. It's coming up.

00:37:37.420 In 2009, I had no idea that things would explode like this.

00:37:42.340 In 2009, I thought that when I described what kids were being taught in sex education, using our tax dollars,

00:37:52.160 that they were being taught all this rubbish about gender and, you know, born in the wrong body.

00:37:58.080 And, you know, it's a matter of, it's oppressive to be taught that we are all either male or female

00:38:05.160 and that we have to break out of that oppressive, you know, way of thinking.

00:38:10.220 Binary.

00:38:11.460 Binary, yeah.

00:38:12.440 That oppressive gender binary. 0.99

00:38:14.600 I thought that when I demonstrated that kids were being taught that, there would be, you know, a huge reaction.

00:38:23.400 Sadly, that did not happen.

00:38:25.400 And this huge reaction is only taking place many years later when we are being faced with this terrible crisis.

00:38:32.920 Okay. Well, so I thought, unless you have another direction you want to take this in,

00:38:36.640 I thought we might delve into the gender issue for a moment, both scientifically and historically.

00:38:41.960 I want to, I would like you to tell the audience a few things about John Money, for example.

00:38:47.580 So let's foray that way.

00:38:49.180 Okay. I'm just, I'll say one more thing.

00:38:51.460 I was just to say one more thing about the parent.

00:38:53.120 I'm very devoted to the parents.

00:38:56.120 Okay.

00:38:57.120 We, you know, everyone is terribly concerned about the suicide rate among kids who are questioning

00:39:09.320 or confused about their gender identity.

00:39:13.460 And of course, we have to always be concerned.

00:39:16.540 One suicide is too many.

00:39:19.240 We're all on the same page about preventing suicide.

00:39:22.340 Okay.

00:39:24.080 But no one is talking about the fact that, you know what?

00:39:28.520 Some of the parents are suicidal.

00:39:32.800 This whole thing is driving some of the parents to feeling suicidal.

00:39:38.420 And I'm talking about parents who have gone through the most terrible things in their lives.

00:39:45.380 And this issue, this particular ordeal with their child, seeing their child slip away and become

00:39:54.260 someone unrecognizable, both in terms of their personality and their physical persona, and in terms of their future losses,

00:40:07.720 will this child be totally estranged from the family?

00:40:12.240 Is this child going to come visit me when I'm sick in the hospital?

00:40:17.200 Is this child, you know, going to come to their siblings' weddings?

00:40:20.780 So you have to understand that even parents who are, you know, who went through divorces or cancer or 9-11 or what have you, terrible things,

00:40:33.960 and they were able to go through those things without psychiatric help, without medication.

00:40:40.880 This particular issue, they tell me this is worse than all of that.

00:40:46.820 And now they do need medication.

00:40:48.600 And now they can't sleep.

00:40:50.680 And now they can't get through the day. 1.00

00:40:53.720 Well, I can barely imagine anything worse than being in a situation where you have a child who's being pressured by idiot ideologues 1.00

00:41:02.380 and potentially your spouse as well to radically transform themselves in an extraordinarily destructive way 0.99

00:41:08.740 in a manner that's going to echo down the decades, that's going to disrupt the entire family structure permanently,

00:41:16.760 and that's going to turn the person you love into something like a confused monstrosity,

00:41:22.320 which I think is the most general outcome,

00:41:25.180 and that you are powerless and made powerless as well by the courts to do anything about it,

00:41:30.840 and also subject to the punishment of law if you dare to voice your anti-transition opinion.

00:41:38.580 I mean, that's a pretty dismal corner of hell.

00:41:40.760 Okay, so yeah, so I also address that.

00:41:43.720 I address schools.

00:41:45.240 I have a chapter on schools in this upcoming book, understanding what's going on in the schools.

00:41:51.700 This book that's coming out, Lost in Transnation, is not only a book for parents who have a child that is currently in this ordeal.

00:42:03.680 It's a book for parents whose children are little or who have not yet been influenced to go in this direction.

00:42:12.900 I want to help parents to be proactive so that they can dodge this nuclear bomb and not be ambushed by it.

00:42:24.900 Parents are being ambushed by this.

00:42:27.680 They don't expect it.

00:42:29.340 They think it's not going to happen in their family.

00:42:31.760 And I want parents to know that no family is immune, and they must be prepared for this.

00:42:39.560 They have to get educated.

00:42:41.320 They have to understand what they're dealing with, what the ideology is about.

00:42:45.480 I prefer to call it a belief system, but whatever.

00:42:49.460 You know, what's going on in the schools, in the courts?

00:42:52.920 What if CPS, what if the Department of Family and Services knocks on your door and they're there with the police?

00:43:01.240 What are you going to do?

00:43:02.760 I have, I tell parents what to do when that happens.

00:43:09.080 What are their rights?

00:43:10.320 That's another experience that's extremely stressful for families, for a family that's been striving to act in a decent and appropriate manner,

00:43:21.300 to have Child Protection Services show up on the doorstep, especially with the police,

00:43:25.900 especially when they threaten the other kids, let's say, with being removed from the family,

00:43:30.300 and also make a public display so the neighbours can watch,

00:43:35.480 and also set the parents who are conscientious back on their heels with regards to grief and guilt

00:43:41.680 for being accused by the authorities of doing such things as abusing their children,

00:43:46.120 is that that's absolutely devastating to people.

00:43:48.460 I know many people to whom that's happened, and that's just one bit of the nightmare that you're describing.

00:43:56.880 It's unfathomable how bad this is.

00:44:00.300 How evil this is.

00:44:02.520 Well, so let's delve into that a little bit.

00:44:05.020 So I wrote an article a while back, which I tried to make as hard-hitting as I possibly could.

00:44:10.280 We published that in The Telegraph, and I described the people who were engaged in this on the counselling side,

00:44:16.700 so our professions, let's say, as liars, and the surgeons who are participating in this utter greed-inspired,

00:44:23.900 delusional, sadistic madness as butchers, and called for jail sentences, for example,

00:44:30.380 for the people who were involved, which is about as harsh as I could manage.

00:44:33.540 And, you know, the response to that column was remarkably positive.

00:44:39.260 First of all, it was published, which shocked the hell out of me.

00:44:41.960 And second, the responses, generally speaking, were extraordinarily positive.

00:44:46.180 And given that, and given as well that, you know, I know many of my clinical colleagues and many, many clinicians around the world,

00:44:55.020 and it's not as if they don't have more sophisticated theories of identity than those are being put forth by the gender ideologues,

00:45:02.460 how the hell do you account for two things?

00:45:05.180 I asked you this question earlier.

00:45:07.300 The absolute capture of these once respectable institutions, which is appalling beyond comprehension,

00:45:13.840 but also the unbelievable cowardice demonstrated by members of the psychiatric, psychological, and counselling communities.

00:45:21.020 I mean, some of it's ignorance. 0.97

00:45:22.600 You know, you talk to counsellors now and then who are so damn poorly educated that they buy the gender ideology. 0.91

00:45:27.620 But there's the vast majority of well-trained clinicians are wise and perspicacious enough to know perfectly well

00:45:34.540 that these identity theories are, to call them simplistic and deluded, is barely to scratch the surface.

00:45:40.120 But they're unbelievably timid about coming forward.

00:45:44.680 And so what the hell happened?

00:45:46.240 Like, how did this capture take place?

00:45:47.880 And how do you account for this stunningly widespread dereliction of duty and utter cowardice?

00:45:55.280 Well said, well said.

00:45:57.620 In today's chaotic world, many of us are searching for a way to aim higher and find spiritual peace.

00:46:05.220 But here's the thing.

00:46:06.420 Prayer, the most common tool we have, isn't just about saying whatever comes to mind.

00:46:10.560 It's a skill that needs to be developed.

00:46:12.980 That's where Hallow comes in.

00:46:14.600 As the number one prayer and meditation app, Hallow is launching an exceptional new series called How to Pray.

00:46:20.460 Imagine learning how to use scripture as a launchpad for profound conversations with God.

00:46:25.080 How to properly enter into imaginative prayer.

00:46:28.360 And how to incorporate prayers reaching far back in church history.

00:46:31.840 This isn't your average guided meditation.

00:46:34.760 It's a comprehensive two-week journey into the heart of prayer, led by some of the most respected spiritual leaders of our time.

00:46:41.660 From guests including Bishop Robert Barron, Father Mike Schmitz, and Jonathan Rumi, known for his role as Jesus in the hit series The Chosen,

00:46:49.300 you'll discover prayer techniques that have stood the test of time, while equipping yourself with the tools needed to face life's challenges with renewed strength.

00:46:56.780 Ready to revolutionize your prayer life?

00:46:59.540 You can check out the new series, as well as an extensive catalog of guided prayers, when you download the Hallow app.

00:47:05.540 Just go to Hallow.com slash Jordan and download the Hallow app today for an exclusive three-month trial.

00:47:11.420 That's Hallow.com slash Jordan.

00:47:13.780 Elevate your prayer life today.

00:47:15.340 Okay, well, this is one of my goals of the book also, is to educate parents so that they understand the background.

00:47:29.220 So you mentioned John Money.

00:47:30.540 Of course, this goes back to John Money.

00:47:33.040 John Money introduced the idea of gender identity.

00:47:38.280 He coined the term gender identity and he said that the gender identity is completely separate from biology and that it is something, it is one's identity as male or female.

00:47:58.740 Because back then, of course, we didn't have the non-binary and, you know, in between all that, you know, 47 different genders stuff. 0.74

00:48:06.320 So in the 50s, when John Money was writing and speaking about all this, we had male and female.

00:48:13.540 And his theory was that male and female is something that is foisted on a baby, a child, by society.

00:48:28.980 And that it is unrelated to biology.

00:48:31.640 He further said that men and women, males and females, have biological distinctions, but they are limited to menstruating, gestating, and lactating.

00:48:49.480 And that that was it.

00:48:53.220 Aside from those three things, everything else in terms of personality and preferences for activities or, you know, cognitive abilities, emotional styles, perceptions, that is all, it's a social construct, okay?

00:49:19.800 It's all put on the child in the first two and a half to three years of life.

00:49:26.400 And then John Money said it's fixed.

00:49:28.700 So, you know, when you put the pink blanket on the little girl and the blue blanket on the boy and then you give them the toys and you give them, you know, you have certain expectations based on whether it's a boy or a girl.

00:49:44.420 And all those things, the frilly dresses and the, you know, the 50s was a time, of course, of stereotypes.

00:49:53.020 So he spoke about it in terms of, you know, the girl's going to be in the kitchen making cookies and the boy's going to be out, you know, fixing the car with his dad.

00:50:02.000 And he said, if you take a girl, you know, with ambiguous, okay, I'm sorry, let me go back a minute.

00:50:11.980 John Money's specialty, his interest was in hermaphrodites, okay?

00:50:17.440 Very rare babies that are born with ambiguous genitalia.

00:50:24.420 And those ambiguous genitalia are due to some congenital issue, either endocrinological or due to chromosomal abnormality.

00:50:37.220 And the baby is born.

00:50:39.320 They take a look at the genitals. 0.95

00:50:41.120 It's just not clear what's going on.

00:50:43.520 And that's where the term comes from, this is important, assigned sex at birth, assigned.

00:50:54.220 Because in those cases, and these were the cases that John Money became an expert in, and he opened up a center specifically having to do with, I mean, his PhD that he wrote in the 50s was on the issue of sex assignment of hermaphrodites.

00:51:13.520 What do you do?

00:51:14.900 It's a crisis.

00:51:16.440 You have to say, we had a girl or we had a boy.

00:51:19.980 And so, what do you do in those cases?

00:51:22.820 And he had a special interest in this.

00:51:25.420 Now, you and I know that when someone has a certain interest in their life that consumes them to the point that they're writing their PhD about it, they're studying it, they make it their career, there's usually a reason behind it.

00:51:41.100 And it's worthwhile exploring that reason.

00:51:46.560 Now, when you look at John Money, when you look at John Money and his early life, and he wrote about this, he was very open about it.

00:51:56.900 He grew up in a, he grew up in a, under the hand of an abusive, alcoholic, out-of-control father who would beat him and his mother.

00:52:15.220 So, John Money, as a child, was not only beaten, but watched his mother being beaten.

00:52:24.300 He no doubt had a terrible childhood and that, that influenced his, his image of masculinity was this monstrous individual.

00:52:40.480 And he wrote later on, he grew up on a farm, by the way.

00:52:46.200 And he wrote later on in one of his books that he realized that the world might be better off if not only animals, but men were gelded at birth, castrated.

00:53:01.940 Okay, so gelded is the word, you know, used for animals.

00:53:05.320 So he said that the world might be a better place if men were gelded. 1.00

00:53:11.700 And he also wrote, he said, I wear the vile mark of male sexuality.

00:53:26.080 In other words, we would call that gender dysphoria. 0.93

00:53:29.800 He was talking about his own body and he's saying that his genitals were vile to him.

00:53:44.400 That is gender dysphoria. 0.97

00:53:47.000 We didn't call it then.

00:53:48.400 We didn't have a name for it back then.

00:53:49.940 So clearly, John Money was uncomfortable, to say the very least, with his own masculinity and his own body.

00:54:02.000 So it's not a surprise that he would come up with a theory that, if true, would comfort him on some level.

00:54:13.840 That he is not going to become his father.

00:54:16.980 He's not his father. 0.95

00:54:18.680 Even though he shares the same type of physical reality, his body, his genitals are of a man. 0.88

00:54:28.300 But if his theory is true, and there's such a thing as gender, which is completely separate than biology,

00:54:39.220 then it gave John Money like a way out of not identifying with a monster.

00:54:48.540 Well, so you can imagine, you can imagine the psychological impetus there is,

00:54:54.220 if you make the initial assumption that there's a certain degree of innate pathological aggression associated with masculinity,

00:55:02.380 and then you develop a counter-theory that much of that is in fact socialized,

00:55:07.520 then there's a root out of it.

00:55:08.960 And that gives him, well, that gives him an easy out.

00:55:11.520 That's the thing, is that instead of having to contend with that internally,

00:55:15.260 he can also externalize that and make that a sociological phenomenon.

00:55:19.260 I see this with the insistence on the trans activist's part,

00:55:24.760 that trans identity is much more common than it truly is,

00:55:29.440 and that it's immoral to interfere with its manifestation.

00:55:33.200 I see that as an extension of Freudian rationalization.

00:55:36.400 You know, if you've taken a dramatic route in your life or something dramatic has happened to you,

00:55:42.620 you have every reason to justify your decision post-hoc.

00:55:47.700 And so let's walk through what happened with Money.

00:55:51.100 So he got involved in a very famous case, which is worth paying out.

00:55:56.180 He certainly did.

00:55:56.980 But let's just tell your audience furthermore that he wrote his PhD on hermaphrodites

00:56:08.060 and on how to assign their sex.

00:56:11.480 And then he went on to open the first clinic in the United States for hermaphrodites 0.99

00:56:19.280 for their treatment, including their surgeries.

00:56:23.100 So he made available for the first time in the United States a place where there would be gender reassignment 0.96

00:56:35.820 or sex reassignment, including the surgeries.

00:56:39.680 And the surgeries involved castration, of course.

00:56:44.360 So we go back to what he said about being gelded.

00:56:48.140 And, you know, I can't help but think that on some level he might have been thinking,

00:56:54.640 you know, I'm helping these kids. 0.86

00:56:58.480 I'm helping these little boys by gelding them, by castrating them, and making them into women. 1.00

00:57:05.800 Of course, they can't be made into women, but the way that he was thinking about it.

00:57:10.520 So he had his theory, and he didn't have any way of proving it because, I mean, how do you prove

00:57:19.920 something like that?

00:57:21.900 Until this family showed up at his doorstep, and it was a family, a Canadian family from 0.98

00:57:32.960 Winnipeg, I think, right?

00:57:34.660 I think that's right, yeah.

00:57:37.280 Yeah.

00:57:37.940 And they were, the Reamer family, a blue-collar, very young couple, 20, 21 years old.

00:57:46.280 And they had a horrific tragedy in their family, which is that they gave birth to twin boys.

00:57:52.220 The boys were fine.

00:57:53.920 And when the boys were, well, actually, they had phimosis. 0.97

00:57:57.100 Phimosis is an abnormality of the opening of the urethra at the tip of the penis. 0.92

00:58:07.960 So the boys had phimosis.

00:58:11.820 And so the doctors recommended circumcision for the boys.

00:58:16.140 And they went in when they were eight months old for circumcision.

00:58:19.960 And the first boy to go in for the circumcision was Bruce.

00:58:25.040 And the equipment, there was a malfunction of the equipment. 0.83

00:58:38.040 And they were cauterizing the penis in order to circumcise it. 1.00

00:58:44.780 And instead of just that small amount of tissue that was supposed to be cauterized, 0.99

00:58:52.740 apparently the settings were incorrect and the entire penis was burnt. 0.99

00:59:00.660 So Bruce's penis was burnt beyond any functionality. 0.99

00:59:07.020 So these poor parents went home. 0.99

00:59:11.820 The other boy was not circumcised, just obviously.

00:59:15.980 They went home, and what are they supposed to do? 0.99

00:59:19.640 They have a boy without a penis. 1.00

00:59:23.000 What the hell are they supposed to do? 1.00

00:59:24.880 So months later, they were watching television.

00:59:34.020 And John Money happened to be on there.

00:59:37.780 And you have to know also that John Money was an extremely pompous,

00:59:43.860 self-assured individual.

00:59:48.180 He was sophisticated.

00:59:51.520 When he talked, you listened.

00:59:55.460 He came across as being definitive,

00:59:59.040 calling the shots, knowing what was going on,

01:00:04.140 knowing the research, knowing the truth.

01:00:05.960 And he, in this interview on television,

01:00:11.960 said that a boy can be raised as a girl,

01:00:16.780 and a girl can be raised as a boy,

01:00:18.780 if it's caught, if it's done early enough.

01:00:22.520 And that early enough means before the age of two and a half or three.

01:00:27.960 And the parents, the Reamer parents, 1.00

01:00:33.080 immediately took note of that,

01:00:36.400 and they thought, here's the answer.

01:00:39.960 This is the answer for Bruce.

01:00:42.560 This is what we're supposed to do.

01:00:45.320 So they contacted Dr. Money down in Baltimore,

01:00:52.200 and they made an appointment

01:00:54.980 and took the twins down to Baltimore

01:00:56.720 and went down there.

01:00:57.960 Again, you have to understand

01:01:01.200 that this was an uneducated, young, blue-collar family.

01:01:06.940 And when they were interviewed later

01:01:08.820 about their meetings with John Money,

01:01:11.940 they described him as like,

01:01:14.560 we just thought he was God.

01:01:17.500 We just thought, you know, this is,

01:01:20.240 I mean, he's a professor,

01:01:21.840 and he's got all the diplomas,

01:01:24.300 and he's the head of this entire clinic at an outstanding university,

01:01:32.600 one of the major universities in the world.

01:01:35.480 That was at Johns Hopkins, right?

01:01:36.980 Yes, yes.

01:01:38.420 So you have to imagine this young couple coming,

01:01:41.200 and they're at a loss,

01:01:42.920 and they are looking for an answer.

01:01:45.940 They've been praying.

01:01:47.100 They're looking for an answer to their prayers.

01:01:48.940 What are we going to do with Bruce?

01:01:50.120 And John Money says,

01:01:53.180 well, we have an answer for you.

01:01:55.780 Because male and female

01:01:58.040 is actually not related to chromosomes.

01:02:01.680 It's not related to hormones.

01:02:04.180 It's not innate.

01:02:05.500 We can take little Bruce,

01:02:09.000 and we have to do some surgery on Bruce.

01:02:13.080 We have to castrate him, 0.99

01:02:14.780 and we'll remove his testicles. 1.00

01:02:18.380 He already didn't have a penis. 1.00

01:02:21.720 We're going to remove his testicles. 1.00

01:02:23.800 We're going to make, 1.00

01:02:24.880 we're going to fashion, you know, 0.98

01:02:26.180 some sort of elementary sort of female genitalia. 1.00

01:02:31.920 You're going to give him a girl's name, 0.95

01:02:34.920 and you're going to put him in pink dresses 0.86

01:02:37.680 and give him dolls and raise him as a girl.

01:02:40.880 And you are never, ever,

01:02:43.400 Dr. Money told the parents,

01:02:45.380 never to tell him

01:02:47.220 that this was truly what happened,

01:02:50.200 and, you know, after he was born.

01:02:52.120 Never tell him,

01:02:53.300 because that will ruin everything.

01:02:55.900 And it's up to you.

01:02:58.040 You have to just work your hardest

01:03:01.320 to raise him as a girl

01:03:02.920 and make sure that everyone around him

01:03:05.740 is considering him a girl,

01:03:08.880 because essentially he is a girl.

01:03:11.600 And so not only was this the answer

01:03:14.260 to the Reamer's prayers,

01:03:16.660 this was, as you can understand now,

01:03:18.720 the answer to Dr. Money's prayers.

01:03:20.880 Right, right.

01:03:21.920 He had an experiment.

01:03:23.680 This was the experiment.

01:03:25.680 This was his proof of concept.

01:03:27.520 His concept was that being male and female

01:03:32.760 is completely separate from biology.

01:03:35.500 It's imposed by society.

01:03:38.820 It's a social construct.

01:03:41.680 And this was his proof of concept.

01:03:45.360 And so the Reamers went home. 0.99

01:03:48.060 Well, he had his surgery.

01:03:50.200 They took him home.

01:03:52.060 They named Bruce Brenda.

01:03:55.940 They put him in all the girls' clothing, 1.00

01:03:58.640 and they gave him dolls,

01:03:59.920 and they, you know,

01:04:01.540 they did all the things.

01:04:03.200 And he peed sitting down sometimes,

01:04:06.540 because as we'll learn later,

01:04:09.000 he actually preferred urinating standing up,

01:04:11.760 which is astonishing.

01:04:12.920 We learned later

01:04:16.380 that he always wanted to urinate standing up.

01:04:22.040 And from the time he was in diapers,

01:04:26.240 I think,

01:04:28.700 he was told he was a girl.

01:04:32.440 So that really is fascinating.

01:04:34.520 But anyway,

01:04:36.360 so they took him home,

01:04:38.480 raised him as a girl,

01:04:39.420 and Dr. Money started to follow the twins every year.

01:04:46.420 They would come down for a visit.

01:04:49.060 The parents would spend time speaking to Dr. Money,

01:04:53.620 and then the money,

01:04:54.800 I mean, the money.

01:04:56.960 Here's a slip.

01:04:58.620 Freudian slip for you.

01:05:01.160 Dr. Money would take the twins

01:05:03.660 without the parents

01:05:05.340 into his office

01:05:07.200 and spend time with the twins.

01:05:09.420 So this went on for years.

01:05:15.060 And Dr. Money began to report

01:05:17.140 on his study

01:05:19.440 that became a famous landmark study.

01:05:23.560 And he called them,

01:05:25.840 he called her Joan

01:05:27.340 in his study.

01:05:29.040 He was beginning to write about this

01:05:30.800 and lecture.

01:05:31.840 And he was claiming

01:05:32.840 that Joan,

01:05:35.520 a.k.a.

01:05:36.540 Brenda, a.k.a. Bruce,

01:05:38.220 was doing great.

01:05:41.560 I mean,

01:05:42.380 she was adjusting.

01:05:44.580 She was,

01:05:45.500 she may be a bit of a tomboy. 1.00

01:05:47.360 He would acknowledge that.

01:05:49.400 But in every way,

01:05:51.240 you know,

01:05:51.680 she was adjusting

01:05:52.640 and she was doing well

01:05:54.300 with friends

01:05:54.940 and with schools

01:05:55.880 and she liked playing with dolls

01:05:58.020 and she would mimic her mom.

01:06:01.360 And he was giving this glowing,

01:06:03.880 glowing report

01:06:04.640 from year to year.

01:06:05.700 And in his,

01:06:07.080 you know,

01:06:09.620 professional writing

01:06:10.860 of his studies,

01:06:13.000 his report,

01:06:13.860 and he was giving talks.

01:06:16.160 And he was getting,

01:06:17.360 you might imagine,

01:06:18.380 tremendous attention for this.

01:06:21.180 I mean,

01:06:21.460 you have to understand,

01:06:22.260 this was by now

01:06:23.320 maybe,

01:06:24.440 you know,

01:06:25.380 the early 60s.

01:06:27.180 This is feminism, 1.00

01:06:29.320 okay?

01:06:29.940 This is the sexual revolution.

01:06:32.400 This is a time

01:06:33.340 when society,

01:06:35.060 or at least part of society,

01:06:37.900 wanted nothing more to say

01:06:39.920 that male and female

01:06:41.540 is a social construct.

01:06:42.980 and that in order

01:06:46.040 to gain,

01:06:47.520 you know,

01:06:48.020 full equality,

01:06:49.640 women have to be considered 1.00

01:06:51.020 the same as men.

01:06:53.580 And,

01:06:54.360 you know,

01:06:55.420 to have a study

01:06:57.100 such as this study

01:06:58.520 of John Money's

01:06:59.520 in which

01:07:00.440 he was reporting

01:07:01.760 that this baby

01:07:03.900 who was

01:07:04.600 X,

01:07:05.300 Y,

01:07:05.480 you know,

01:07:05.720 normal chromosomes,

01:07:07.740 normal everything

01:07:08.760 biologically,

01:07:10.100 but is being

01:07:10.860 successfully raised

01:07:12.300 as a girl

01:07:13.120 because he has

01:07:14.480 a girl's name

01:07:15.440 and girls

01:07:16.280 and dresses

01:07:17.040 and dolls

01:07:18.080 and all,

01:07:19.760 you know,

01:07:19.960 his entire society,

01:07:22.080 his teachers

01:07:22.840 and his grandparents

01:07:24.000 and everyone

01:07:24.860 is reinforcing

01:07:26.320 the idea

01:07:27.160 that he's a delicate

01:07:28.760 girl 0.91

01:07:30.360 who likes to cook

01:07:32.420 and,

01:07:32.740 you know,

01:07:33.500 is going to grow up

01:07:34.460 to have babies.

01:07:35.820 I mean,

01:07:36.440 this was huge.

01:07:38.420 Now,

01:07:42.440 what happened

01:07:44.060 is that

01:07:45.020 this theory

01:07:46.440 of John Money's

01:07:47.780 became,

01:07:51.200 was accepted

01:07:52.160 over the decades.

01:07:54.980 We didn't find out

01:07:56.580 what really happened

01:07:58.360 with the twins

01:07:59.940 until decades later

01:08:02.820 and in the meantime,

01:08:06.000 during those decades,

01:08:07.860 his theory

01:08:08.760 became doctrine.

01:08:12.140 Okay,

01:08:12.420 his theory

01:08:13.060 became

01:08:13.660 just baked

01:08:14.440 into,

01:08:15.580 you know,

01:08:17.260 so many fields

01:08:18.680 of both

01:08:20.540 soft and hard

01:08:21.440 science

01:08:22.140 so that

01:08:23.320 it was standard

01:08:24.740 that whenever

01:08:25.280 you had,

01:08:26.700 for example,

01:08:28.220 an X,

01:08:29.220 Y

01:08:29.560 or any

01:08:31.400 child

01:08:32.220 that had

01:08:33.280 ambiguous genitalia,

01:08:34.840 if they could

01:08:35.360 be raised

01:08:35.900 as a girl,

01:08:36.980 they'd be raised

01:08:37.600 as a girl. 1.00

01:08:38.620 So they'd be castrated 0.99

01:08:39.720 just automatically. 0.98

01:08:40.860 Why?

01:08:41.620 Because of the

01:08:42.640 great success,

01:08:43.620 because of what

01:08:44.180 John Money

01:08:44.860 proved to us,

01:08:47.920 proved to us.

01:08:49.360 And so lots

01:08:50.140 and lots of boys

01:08:51.100 all over the world.

01:08:52.480 I mean,

01:08:52.760 this was written

01:08:53.440 into the,

01:08:54.480 you know,

01:08:55.840 the textbooks

01:08:56.440 of endocrinology

01:08:57.640 and the textbooks

01:08:58.300 of genetics.

01:09:00.340 I mean,

01:09:00.860 this became

01:09:01.620 truth,

01:09:02.700 so to speak.

01:09:03.500 Not that there

01:09:04.240 weren't people,

01:09:06.040 you know,

01:09:06.280 other scientists

01:09:07.520 that were

01:09:08.180 standing up

01:09:09.120 and saying,

01:09:10.640 John,

01:09:11.600 you know,

01:09:11.820 this isn't proven yet.

01:09:12.980 You know,

01:09:13.160 let's look a little closer.

01:09:14.520 I don't,

01:09:14.820 this is not necessarily

01:09:15.940 the case.

01:09:16.620 But what did he do?

01:09:17.940 He wouldn't tolerate that.

01:09:20.060 John Money,

01:09:20.980 you know, 0.81

01:09:21.860 was a tyrant.

01:09:23.220 He would not tolerate 0.77

01:09:24.400 another psychologist

01:09:27.100 or biologist

01:09:28.900 or geneticist

01:09:29.820 standing up

01:09:30.520 and trying to

01:09:31.700 publish something

01:09:32.600 that would challenge

01:09:34.760 his great

01:09:36.420 gender theory.

01:09:38.260 He would,

01:09:38.820 he would arrange,

01:09:40.280 you know,

01:09:40.500 he would intimidate

01:09:42.120 the editors

01:09:43.980 at the scientific journals

01:09:45.420 to not publish

01:09:46.420 those articles.

01:09:49.120 It's a lot of what's

01:09:50.140 actually going on

01:09:51.000 right now

01:09:51.440 is very similar.

01:09:52.760 Right.

01:09:53.280 So what happened

01:09:55.460 with the twins

01:09:56.200 is that

01:09:57.440 after decades,

01:10:01.840 in fact,

01:10:02.800 John Money

01:10:03.400 wrote a book

01:10:04.100 in 1997

01:10:05.040 in which he said

01:10:06.800 yet again

01:10:07.700 that his twin study,

01:10:11.580 that his,

01:10:12.200 that his gender theory

01:10:13.780 had been

01:10:14.640 confirmed

01:10:15.780 and supported

01:10:16.600 by the results

01:10:17.540 of this experiment

01:10:18.440 with the twins.

01:10:19.320 and the following

01:10:20.880 One,

01:10:21.680 one person experiment,

01:10:23.220 by the way.

01:10:23.760 A one person experiment.

01:10:24.780 Yeah,

01:10:25.420 but even that one person

01:10:26.920 it didn't work.

01:10:28.620 Okay,

01:10:28.880 so in 19,

01:10:29.940 Right.

01:10:30.240 Yeah,

01:10:30.640 so in 1998,

01:10:32.820 what do we call him now?

01:10:36.780 Not Brenda,

01:10:38.680 not Bruce,

01:10:40.400 but what happened

01:10:41.400 is that

01:10:41.920 we,

01:10:42.700 we,

01:10:43.120 we,

01:10:43.520 we discovered

01:10:44.320 that he stood up

01:10:45.800 and he said,

01:10:46.940 he just blew the cover

01:10:49.720 of this whole thing

01:10:50.860 was a hoax

01:10:51.580 and he,

01:10:53.220 his name was now David.

01:10:55.120 Brenda had become David

01:10:56.460 and he was

01:10:58.540 not only,

01:10:59.640 not only a man,

01:11:01.080 but he was married

01:11:02.220 to a woman

01:11:03.040 with,

01:11:04.240 and he had adopted

01:11:05.180 three stepchildren

01:11:06.680 and he worked

01:11:08.160 as a janitor

01:11:10.920 in a slaughterhouse.

01:11:15.200 Right.

01:11:15.800 So that was David.

01:11:16.940 David Reamer

01:11:17.880 and people can go

01:11:19.080 onto YouTube

01:11:19.960 and hear him

01:11:20.800 being interviewed

01:11:21.480 about his experience

01:11:23.340 of what it was like

01:11:24.260 to be told

01:11:25.560 for 14 years

01:11:27.620 of his life

01:11:28.300 that he's a girl

01:11:30.440 and to never,

01:11:32.080 ever,

01:11:32.740 ever feel

01:11:33.760 that that was,

01:11:34.720 that that was his truth.

01:11:36.960 And,

01:11:37.260 and what happened

01:11:39.280 is that during

01:11:39.980 all those years,

01:11:41.240 he,

01:11:41.900 he was not happy

01:11:43.740 with his dresses

01:11:44.580 and with his dolls.

01:11:45.700 he was,

01:11:47.080 he was,

01:11:48.080 he wanted to go

01:11:49.040 play with his brothers

01:11:50.400 tours.

01:11:51.180 He wanted to

01:11:52.340 pee standing up.

01:11:54.100 He wanted to,

01:11:55.500 you know,

01:11:55.980 he was rough.

01:11:56.880 He was,

01:11:57.320 he,

01:11:57.640 he,

01:11:58.240 he was,

01:11:59.240 he was so boyish

01:12:00.820 that,

01:12:02.020 and aggressive

01:12:02.720 that kids called him

01:12:05.560 cave woman.

01:12:08.320 okay,

01:12:09.480 they made fun of him

01:12:10.560 because the way,

01:12:11.680 the way that he walked

01:12:12.640 and his gestures

01:12:14.080 and his interests

01:12:15.780 were all so masculine. 0.98

01:12:18.400 And he was a miserable child 0.94

01:12:20.300 and the, 0.96

01:12:21.080 and the family was miserable.

01:12:22.420 And on top of everything,

01:12:24.220 when he was going back,

01:12:25.980 when the family was going back

01:12:27.060 for those yearly visits

01:12:28.320 to Johns Hopkins

01:12:29.300 with Dr. Money,

01:12:30.720 Dr. Money was sexually 0.97

01:12:32.040 abusing those twins. 0.96

01:12:33.560 Okay,

01:12:33.940 how?

01:12:35.040 He was forcing them

01:12:36.300 to undress

01:12:37.120 and to,

01:12:39.240 to mimic 0.98

01:12:41.140 sexual intercourse. 0.99

01:12:42.760 And he would say, 0.93

01:12:43.500 you know,

01:12:43.700 this is how,

01:12:44.920 this is what men

01:12:45.980 and women do together. 1.00

01:12:47.080 And he would,

01:12:48.160 you know, 0.55

01:12:48.500 humiliate them 0.99

01:12:49.700 and show them pictures.

01:12:51.760 And the point came,

01:12:53.280 why did they stop

01:12:54.160 going down to Johns Hopkins?

01:12:55.620 The boys refused to go.

01:12:58.560 They refused to go back

01:13:00.340 to see Dr. Money.

01:13:01.320 And the parents

01:13:01.840 couldn't understand why.

01:13:04.320 He was quite the stunning creep,

01:13:06.480 all things considered.

01:13:07.400 Now,

01:13:07.560 the Johns Hopkins

01:13:08.260 also closed that clinic down,

01:13:10.060 eh?

01:13:10.220 Not,

01:13:11.000 how long after

01:13:11.980 these revelations emerged

01:13:13.460 did they close them down?

01:13:13.680 Well,

01:13:14.040 then that would have been

01:13:15.040 Dr. Paul McHugh,

01:13:16.660 who was a,

01:13:17.760 is a,

01:13:19.520 you know,

01:13:20.360 a giant in this area.

01:13:22.140 And he had the wisdom

01:13:23.860 and the foresight,

01:13:26.100 you know,

01:13:26.360 to understand

01:13:27.040 what was going on.

01:13:28.340 He,

01:13:29.020 he,

01:13:29.800 there were some studies

01:13:31.500 that were done

01:13:32.080 that would follow up

01:13:33.220 on the individuals

01:13:35.180 who had the sex reassignment

01:13:36.960 to see how they were doing.

01:13:38.660 And those studies

01:13:39.740 showed that they were no,

01:13:41.500 they were,

01:13:41.920 they were,

01:13:42.300 they were still

01:13:43.060 really suffering.

01:13:44.620 They,

01:13:45.200 they weren't,

01:13:45.780 they hadn't necessarily,

01:13:47.140 necessarily benefited

01:13:49.660 from that surgery

01:13:50.980 and that sexual reassignment.

01:13:53.240 So,

01:13:53.940 and he wrote about that

01:13:55.040 in a great book,

01:13:56.060 Dr. Paul McHugh,

01:13:57.500 his book called

01:13:58.380 The Mind Has Mountains

01:13:59.400 and he wrote a chapter

01:14:00.980 called Surgical Sex,

01:14:02.960 explaining how

01:14:03.940 we would be wise

01:14:05.680 if we pay attention

01:14:06.920 to their psyches

01:14:08.000 and help them

01:14:09.500 emotionally

01:14:10.380 and psychologically

01:14:11.240 and not try

01:14:12.160 to change their bodies.

01:14:13.720 So,

01:14:14.100 Dr. McHugh

01:14:14.780 closed up

01:14:15.840 John Money's clinic.

01:14:17.520 That is true.

01:14:18.300 But,

01:14:18.900 you know what?

01:14:19.560 The harm was already done.

01:14:21.380 By the time

01:14:22.160 it became

01:14:23.320 public knowledge

01:14:24.740 and,

01:14:25.080 and actually it's not even

01:14:26.200 to this day

01:14:26.940 such public knowledge,

01:14:27.980 unfortunately,

01:14:29.500 when it became

01:14:32.180 public knowledge

01:14:33.060 and a book

01:14:33.860 was written

01:14:34.400 by John Colopinto

01:14:35.940 called

01:14:36.460 As Nature Made Him,

01:14:38.800 the boy that was raised

01:14:39.760 as a girl

01:14:40.380 and it just told

01:14:41.380 this entire story

01:14:43.660 from A to Z.

01:14:44.760 It's a shocking,

01:14:45.800 shocking story

01:14:46.620 and everyone should

01:14:48.280 read that book.

01:14:51.180 So,

01:14:51.860 by the time

01:14:52.560 that book came out

01:14:53.440 in 1999

01:14:54.060 or 2000,

01:14:56.220 it was already,

01:14:57.020 you know,

01:14:58.000 that theory

01:14:58.580 was already

01:14:59.280 baked into

01:15:00.580 sex education

01:15:02.720 and,

01:15:03.380 you know,

01:15:04.640 sociology

01:15:05.580 and,

01:15:06.460 and psychology

01:15:07.900 and not,

01:15:09.920 I mean,

01:15:10.320 look,

01:15:11.540 I have a book,

01:15:12.680 Dr. Peterson,

01:15:13.420 I have a book

01:15:14.020 that was published

01:15:14.660 in 1998

01:15:15.900 for kids.

01:15:19.480 I brought it with me,

01:15:20.800 show and tell.

01:15:21.380 this book came out.

01:15:27.060 It's called

01:15:27.800 My,

01:15:28.500 My Gender Workbook

01:15:31.080 and it has

01:15:33.760 on the cover,

01:15:36.360 if you see,

01:15:36.700 the picture here

01:15:37.460 is half,

01:15:38.440 half a Barbie

01:15:39.580 and half a Ken.

01:15:42.540 Uh-huh.

01:15:43.160 Okay.

01:15:43.960 Obviously,

01:15:44.760 a book for young people

01:15:45.940 and the entire

01:15:50.200 premise of this book

01:15:51.800 is that

01:15:53.280 the gender binary

01:15:55.960 is false,

01:15:59.360 that we are not,

01:16:01.720 we do not all fit

01:16:03.080 into this category

01:16:04.740 of male and female

01:16:06.020 and they're not talking

01:16:07.780 about hermaphrodites

01:16:09.020 or intersex,

01:16:10.120 okay?

01:16:11.340 They're talking

01:16:12.180 about none of us.

01:16:14.520 No one fits into it.

01:16:16.320 It's oppressive

01:16:17.320 and we need

01:16:19.180 to rebel against it.

01:16:21.000 So clearly

01:16:21.920 written by

01:16:22.860 the author

01:16:23.800 is Kate Bornstein,

01:16:25.760 an individual

01:16:26.340 who

01:16:27.040 has had

01:16:29.520 a very interesting

01:16:30.600 gender journey

01:16:32.320 going back

01:16:33.240 and forth,

01:16:33.980 born as a male,

01:16:34.940 then a female,

01:16:35.740 then back

01:16:36.300 and then neither.

01:16:37.720 And

01:16:38.080 this individual

01:16:40.100 Kate Bornstein

01:16:41.120 in 1998,

01:16:43.500 again,

01:16:43.880 I'm just,

01:16:44.320 I want to emphasize

01:16:45.060 how long ago

01:16:46.860 this book

01:16:48.180 was available

01:16:48.920 and written

01:16:50.040 for young people

01:16:51.700 to challenge them

01:16:54.080 and to

01:16:55.400 indoctrinate them

01:16:59.660 with the idea

01:17:00.520 that society

01:17:01.820 is placing

01:17:02.720 on you

01:17:03.660 these false

01:17:05.360 restrictions.

01:17:07.000 Society

01:17:07.440 is telling you

01:17:08.380 that you have

01:17:09.360 to be a boy

01:17:10.160 or a girl

01:17:10.700 and that

01:17:11.380 is

01:17:11.980 something

01:17:13.880 that is

01:17:14.420 it's like

01:17:15.140 racism.

01:17:16.180 It's like

01:17:17.080 sexism.

01:17:18.160 It's a terrible 0.73

01:17:18.920 thing.

01:17:19.720 It's patriarchal

01:17:20.960 oppression.

01:17:21.340 Yes,

01:17:21.620 and we have to

01:17:22.360 break

01:17:22.720 in its purest form.

01:17:24.440 So,

01:17:24.920 you know,

01:17:25.580 you have to

01:17:26.160 understand

01:17:26.800 that

01:17:27.700 this is

01:17:28.680 very enticing

01:17:29.880 for

01:17:31.160 teenagers

01:17:32.220 who

01:17:32.820 want to

01:17:33.740 believe in

01:17:34.420 something

01:17:34.780 and want

01:17:35.420 the world

01:17:35.920 to be a

01:17:36.380 better place

01:17:37.180 and they

01:17:38.000 want to

01:17:38.380 fight

01:17:38.780 against

01:17:39.220 something.

01:17:39.680 They want

01:17:39.940 to fight

01:17:40.320 against

01:17:40.620 the evil.

01:17:42.180 So,

01:17:42.900 this is

01:17:43.600 presented

01:17:44.020 as another

01:17:44.760 evil

01:17:45.280 that exists

01:17:46.140 in society.

01:17:47.040 So,

01:17:49.980 you know,

01:17:51.380 and this

01:17:51.720 book actually

01:17:52.900 was recommended

01:17:53.800 by,

01:17:56.960 oh gosh,

01:17:58.820 I'm going to

01:17:59.660 say,

01:18:00.300 I'm not

01:18:00.700 sure,

01:18:01.720 the American

01:18:02.220 Psychiatric

01:18:02.820 Association

01:18:03.560 or maybe

01:18:04.300 it was the

01:18:05.580 American

01:18:05.820 Psychological

01:18:06.560 Association,

01:18:07.720 one of those

01:18:08.800 major

01:18:09.840 professional

01:18:11.000 mental health

01:18:11.760 organizations

01:18:12.540 way before

01:18:14.640 the DSM

01:18:17.580 acknowledged

01:18:19.120 gender dysphoria

01:18:20.520 was not

01:18:21.320 a disorder.

01:18:22.060 So,

01:18:22.440 let me just

01:18:23.060 be clear.

01:18:24.020 A book

01:18:24.500 like this,

01:18:25.940 a book

01:18:26.780 like this

01:18:27.580 and an

01:18:28.460 individual

01:18:28.940 such as

01:18:29.960 Kate Bornstein

01:18:31.040 who had a

01:18:32.140 very active

01:18:32.840 schedule,

01:18:33.540 speaking on

01:18:34.180 campuses,

01:18:35.460 public

01:18:35.760 appearances,

01:18:37.440 you know,

01:18:38.240 all over the

01:18:38.900 place,

01:18:39.320 being made

01:18:40.160 into a

01:18:40.620 celebrity,

01:18:41.080 this is

01:18:43.200 all happening

01:18:44.120 at a

01:18:44.880 time when

01:18:45.900 psychiatry

01:18:47.200 still considered

01:18:48.320 this a

01:18:48.880 disorder.

01:18:50.080 I mean,

01:18:50.620 on paper.

01:18:52.280 On paper,

01:18:53.860 not identifying

01:18:55.200 as male

01:18:56.300 or female,

01:18:57.580 not identifying,

01:18:58.540 I'm sorry,

01:18:59.000 with your

01:18:59.400 biology in a

01:19:00.300 way that's

01:19:00.660 consistent with

01:19:01.320 your biology,

01:19:02.240 was still

01:19:03.120 called at

01:19:03.680 that time

01:19:04.160 a disorder.

01:19:06.020 Okay,

01:19:06.180 this is

01:19:06.600 1998.

01:19:08.560 The APA

01:19:09.520 only changed

01:19:10.380 the DSM

01:19:11.160 in 2013.

01:19:13.940 So this

01:19:14.500 is 15 years

01:19:15.640 before that.

01:19:17.100 So what

01:19:17.340 I'm trying

01:19:17.760 to say

01:19:18.220 is...

01:19:19.140 Now,

01:19:19.420 what happened

01:19:20.420 to David

01:19:21.020 Reimer?

01:19:22.000 What happened?

01:19:22.720 David Reimer

01:19:23.580 committed suicide

01:19:24.440 eventually,

01:19:25.000 didn't he?

01:19:26.260 Yeah.

01:19:27.860 Yeah.

01:19:28.240 Yes.

01:19:28.660 So that's

01:19:29.180 the denouement

01:19:30.140 of that

01:19:30.560 particularly

01:19:31.040 trial.

01:19:31.380 And his

01:19:32.360 twin...

01:19:32.880 So not only

01:19:33.560 was this a

01:19:34.160 failure,

01:19:34.660 it was a...

01:19:35.560 Go ahead.

01:19:36.720 Oh,

01:19:36.960 no.

01:19:37.200 It was a

01:19:38.280 disaster,

01:19:40.380 terrible disaster.

01:19:42.420 He committed

01:19:43.420 suicide, 0.90

01:19:44.540 and his

01:19:45.520 twin brother

01:19:46.360 died of an

01:19:47.980 opiate overdose

01:19:49.440 before him.

01:19:52.200 His twin

01:19:52.660 died first.

01:19:54.800 The entire

01:19:55.480 family was...

01:19:58.760 You know,

01:19:59.400 what...

01:19:59.660 What are the...

01:20:01.220 What kind of words?

01:20:02.420 I mean,

01:20:02.920 traumatized...

01:20:03.580 It's not enough.

01:20:05.220 Trauma is not

01:20:06.060 enough to

01:20:06.640 describe what

01:20:07.400 that family

01:20:08.020 went through.

01:20:09.020 My parents

01:20:09.640 didn't know

01:20:10.280 a lot that

01:20:10.800 was going on.

01:20:12.780 And if they

01:20:13.240 would have

01:20:13.500 known,

01:20:14.940 it would never

01:20:16.620 would have

01:20:16.900 happened.

01:20:18.020 By me not

01:20:18.660 saying anything,

01:20:20.900 the medical

01:20:21.500 community

01:20:22.120 was under

01:20:24.380 the impression

01:20:24.960 that my case

01:20:25.760 was a success

01:20:26.440 story.

01:20:28.200 And I was

01:20:28.760 shocked when

01:20:29.780 I heard that

01:20:30.500 people thought

01:20:31.360 that my case

01:20:32.520 was a success

01:20:33.200 story.

01:20:34.400 So what we

01:20:35.620 should point

01:20:36.060 out here

01:20:36.520 is that

01:20:37.060 this experiment

01:20:39.000 couldn't possibly

01:20:40.080 have gone more

01:20:40.980 cataclysmically

01:20:41.800 wrong than it

01:20:42.580 did.

01:20:43.560 Not only was

01:20:44.300 what Money was

01:20:44.940 saying was not

01:20:45.980 true in the

01:20:46.760 technical scientific

01:20:47.520 sense,

01:20:48.180 it was an

01:20:48.800 anti-truth and

01:20:49.800 he falsified the

01:20:50.840 data and it

01:20:51.800 culminated in the

01:20:52.980 death of two

01:20:53.700 people, the

01:20:54.340 demolition of a

01:20:55.100 family and the

01:20:56.060 perversion of an

01:20:56.880 entire culture.

01:20:58.280 That's John

01:20:59.140 Money's legacy.

01:21:00.600 He never

01:21:01.100 publicly

01:21:02.540 acknowledged it.

01:21:04.400 He never

01:21:05.580 publicly

01:21:06.120 acknowledged that

01:21:07.580 the twins had

01:21:09.040 well that one

01:21:10.520 of the, I

01:21:11.480 don't know what

01:21:11.940 the, John

01:21:12.620 Money died I

01:21:13.280 think in 2006

01:21:14.680 and I think he

01:21:15.480 had dementia.

01:21:16.680 But when the

01:21:17.640 book came out

01:21:18.420 and when John

01:21:19.900 Colapinto's book

01:21:20.780 came out that

01:21:21.460 just like exposed

01:21:23.060 this whole calamity,

01:21:24.500 there was nothing

01:21:25.640 from John Money.

01:21:26.740 He was still

01:21:27.620 alive.

01:21:28.400 He could have

01:21:29.100 made a statement.

01:21:30.980 Nothing.

01:21:31.540 I'm just saying

01:21:33.220 that that's just

01:21:33.860 another, you

01:21:35.340 know, indication

01:21:37.120 of what the

01:21:38.660 morality, the

01:21:39.520 immorality of

01:21:40.420 this person and

01:21:41.420 the, you know,

01:21:42.660 the lack of

01:21:44.220 acknowledgement,

01:21:45.920 you know, of

01:21:46.860 what they're

01:21:47.940 guilty of doing.

01:21:49.100 I mean, you know,

01:21:49.560 I guess it's too

01:21:50.140 much to expect.

01:21:51.460 Well, you were

01:21:52.020 making a case a

01:21:53.540 bit, you were

01:21:55.180 making a case a

01:21:55.980 bit that part of

01:21:56.660 the reason the

01:21:57.220 psychiatric and

01:21:58.020 psychological

01:21:58.540 professions, the

01:21:59.380 medical professions

01:22:00.140 did tilt in this

01:22:01.900 gender-affirming

01:22:02.660 direction was

01:22:03.780 because money's

01:22:04.680 research was

01:22:05.680 taken as gold

01:22:06.500 standard and

01:22:07.840 the pathology of

01:22:09.180 that research

01:22:09.720 wasn't revealed

01:22:10.460 until like 25

01:22:11.660 years later.

01:22:12.500 And so that

01:22:12.920 excuses the

01:22:13.860 profession to

01:22:14.440 some degree.

01:22:15.280 But by your

01:22:16.280 testimony as well,

01:22:17.680 all of this

01:22:18.240 started to become

01:22:18.980 pretty public

01:22:19.700 knowledge by

01:22:20.380 about the year

01:22:20.980 2000 that the

01:22:22.000 money experiment

01:22:22.560 had actually gone

01:22:23.320 cataclysmically

01:22:24.080 wrong.

01:22:24.920 And yet what

01:22:25.380 we've seen on

01:22:26.520 the psychological,

01:22:27.700 psychiatric, and

01:22:28.400 counseling front,

01:22:29.300 medical as well,

01:22:30.240 is a doubling down

01:22:31.360 of the insistence

01:22:32.900 that gender is 1.00

01:22:33.960 nothing but

01:22:34.500 something that's

01:22:35.140 socialized and

01:22:35.960 that medical

01:22:36.460 transition is the

01:22:37.400 appropriate move.

01:22:38.560 Okay, so that's

01:22:40.680 all flying in the

01:22:41.620 face of evidence

01:22:42.480 now instead of

01:22:43.300 being supported by

01:22:44.220 evidence.

01:22:44.840 And so, do you

01:22:47.180 have any thoughts

01:22:47.740 about...

01:22:48.140 Yeah, but not

01:22:48.620 only that, not

01:22:49.820 only that, it

01:22:50.600 became more and

01:22:51.720 more and more

01:22:52.300 radical.

01:22:53.740 So where we are

01:22:54.640 today and where

01:22:55.760 we are, I mean,

01:22:56.800 even this book in

01:22:57.860 1998 is much

01:22:59.780 more radical than

01:23:00.860 John Money.

01:23:01.880 This, at least

01:23:02.600 John Money said,

01:23:04.080 you know, you're

01:23:04.580 either male or

01:23:05.320 female and that 0.83

01:23:06.280 you need and

01:23:06.860 that that's fixed

01:23:07.600 by the age of

01:23:08.400 three.

01:23:09.940 Okay, by

01:23:10.920 1998, kids were

01:23:12.900 being told, no,

01:23:14.220 no, no, no,

01:23:14.600 that's an

01:23:15.620 oppressive false

01:23:16.660 binary.

01:23:17.540 It's all on a

01:23:18.680 spectrum.

01:23:19.400 It's all fluid.

01:23:21.340 And it's fluid for

01:23:22.860 your entire life.

01:23:23.980 And it's

01:23:26.040 wonderful to

01:23:27.000 explore and to

01:23:28.800 question, and no

01:23:30.080 one can tell you

01:23:30.820 who you are, and

01:23:32.100 just a million

01:23:32.860 different ways.

01:23:33.840 It's so much more

01:23:35.160 radical.

01:23:36.360 I mean, I wish

01:23:37.280 almost, you know,

01:23:38.140 that we were back

01:23:38.920 with John Money's

01:23:40.360 theory because it

01:23:41.440 would be so easy

01:23:42.520 to, you know,

01:23:44.840 defeat...

01:23:46.400 It's so easy now.

01:23:48.900 We have so much

01:23:49.960 information from

01:23:51.520 hard science.

01:23:53.200 In fact, if John

01:23:54.140 Money were living

01:23:54.800 today, he could

01:23:56.160 never get published

01:23:58.580 with such a theory

01:23:59.500 that he had about

01:24:00.240 gender and biology. 0.98

01:24:02.100 I mean, it's 0.99

01:24:03.480 ridiculous. 0.73

01:24:04.440 We have too much 0.98

01:24:05.460 information about

01:24:06.380 the impact of

01:24:07.560 the chromosomes

01:24:09.000 prenatally and,

01:24:11.640 you know, the

01:24:12.920 impact of

01:24:14.360 hormones.

01:24:15.460 So we know

01:24:16.460 now that men

01:24:17.560 and male and

01:24:18.380 female, you know, 1.00

01:24:19.160 it's not only

01:24:19.700 different genitalia,

01:24:22.360 not only what

01:24:23.180 John Money pointed

01:24:24.000 out, you know,

01:24:24.900 lactating and

01:24:25.660 menstruating.

01:24:26.520 We have each

01:24:28.140 cell in our

01:24:29.080 bodies, except

01:24:30.940 for cells that

01:24:32.140 don't have a

01:24:32.580 nucleus, which are

01:24:33.280 very few, but

01:24:34.720 every cell that

01:24:35.480 has a nucleus is

01:24:36.840 stamped male or

01:24:37.920 female, and it 0.99

01:24:39.020 makes a difference.

01:24:40.240 Right.

01:24:41.100 Okay, so there's

01:24:41.840 a female heart. 0.93

01:24:43.680 You know, we

01:24:44.800 know now in

01:24:45.520 cardiology that when

01:24:47.440 it comes to, for

01:24:48.140 example, arrhythmias,

01:24:49.640 there's a difference

01:24:50.760 in the type of

01:24:51.800 arrhythmias that a

01:24:53.060 woman might get 1.00

01:24:53.740 as opposed to a

01:24:54.960 man.

01:24:55.520 There's a difference

01:24:56.540 in the way that a

01:24:58.940 woman who sustains a 1.00

01:25:00.900 very difficult

01:25:02.220 burn, how her 0.99

01:25:04.440 body might react to

01:25:05.600 it, as opposed to

01:25:06.420 a man.

01:25:07.280 And this is true

01:25:08.220 for every system

01:25:09.540 of the body.

01:25:12.240 So your point is

01:25:14.440 that not only do

01:25:15.540 you see a gender 0.94

01:25:17.400 difference, a sex

01:25:18.380 difference, at the

01:25:19.360 chromosomal level, but

01:25:20.380 you see it at the

01:25:21.080 cellular level, and

01:25:22.020 you see it at the

01:25:22.760 level of systems of

01:25:24.400 cells, so organs.

01:25:25.960 You see it at the

01:25:26.880 level of broad

01:25:27.640 physiology.

01:25:28.620 We talked about

01:25:29.160 lactation and

01:25:29.920 menstruation and

01:25:30.680 gestation.

01:25:31.760 But there's the

01:25:32.160 entire menstrual

01:25:33.040 cycle.

01:25:33.540 There's the

01:25:33.860 completely different

01:25:34.700 effect of hormones.

01:25:35.960 All of that

01:25:36.400 manifests itself in

01:25:37.520 different perceptual

01:25:38.380 patterns and in

01:25:39.160 temperamental patterns

01:25:40.040 that are sex-type to a

01:25:41.260 large degree.

01:25:42.480 And so the point

01:25:43.320 here is that what

01:25:44.400 constitutes sex is

01:25:46.040 instantiated as part

01:25:47.440 of identity at every

01:25:48.600 single level of the

01:25:49.640 hierarchies that people

01:25:50.500 are embedded in,

01:25:51.540 biologically and then

01:25:52.800 also socially, because

01:25:54.660 the social roles that

01:25:55.840 are assigned to men and

01:25:56.740 women are not merely 1.00

01:25:58.240 arbitrary, right?

01:25:59.600 I mean, part of what

01:26:00.680 you see with parents is

01:26:01.860 that the manner in

01:26:03.300 which parents socialize

01:26:04.700 their children is much

01:26:05.700 more directed by the

01:26:06.720 children than people

01:26:07.540 had originally

01:26:08.180 presupposed.

01:26:09.600 And so parents who

01:26:11.540 are establishing a

01:26:13.780 genuine relationship

01:26:15.240 with their children

01:26:16.180 use the cues from

01:26:18.000 the child's behavior

01:26:19.080 to govern their

01:26:19.960 interactions with the

01:26:20.860 child.

01:26:21.260 And so more feminine 0.98

01:26:22.620 girls tend to be 1.00

01:26:23.540 treated by their

01:26:25.060 parents as more

01:26:26.060 feminine creatures

01:26:26.840 and more masculine

01:26:27.680 boys, etc.

01:26:28.780 But the idea that

01:26:30.480 that's all top-down

01:26:31.680 socialization instead of

01:26:33.360 bottom-up influence of

01:26:34.480 biology is utterly

01:26:35.900 preposterous, even

01:26:37.420 though human beings are

01:26:38.860 quite flexible in the

01:26:40.020 manner in which they

01:26:40.740 can be socialized.

01:26:42.820 Well, the thing is,

01:26:44.380 kids are being led to

01:26:45.620 believe and parents are

01:26:46.960 being led to believe

01:26:48.060 that you can step in

01:26:50.000 with these very powerful

01:26:51.800 medications, these

01:26:52.840 hormones, and you can 1.00

01:26:55.380 deny biology, and you

01:26:57.280 can pause biology, and

01:26:59.900 you can create a persona

01:27:03.880 of the opposite sex 1.00

01:27:05.540 without paying a huge

01:27:08.460 price.

01:27:10.020 That is the lie that's

01:27:11.460 being told, that you're

01:27:13.400 not going to pay a price

01:27:14.620 for this.

01:27:15.640 Oh, yeah, there might be

01:27:16.520 a few side effects.

01:27:17.640 No, no, no, no.

01:27:18.500 You mean like a whole

01:27:19.280 missing forearm, for 0.97

01:27:20.560 example, and a penis that 0.99

01:27:21.820 doesn't work, and 0.99

01:27:22.720 sterility, and lowered

01:27:24.200 voice, and decreased

01:27:26.340 bone density, and the

01:27:27.620 increased probability of

01:27:29.100 the development of cancer,

01:27:30.260 and no evidence

01:27:30.960 whatsoever that there's

01:27:32.040 any mental health

01:27:33.200 benefit, and all the

01:27:34.400 trauma that you put your

01:27:35.860 family through, and all

01:27:36.700 the regret that's going

01:27:37.740 to emerge later in life

01:27:38.940 when you find out that

01:27:39.840 you're sterile, no

01:27:41.060 ability to breastfeed,

01:27:42.420 and complete loss of

01:27:43.600 erotic sensation in the

01:27:45.240 nipples, and et cetera,

01:27:47.020 et cetera.

01:27:47.480 You mean those risks?

01:27:48.640 Those trivial, by-the-wayside

01:27:50.780 risks that are completely

01:27:52.260 ignorable, given all the

01:27:53.500 euphoria you're going to 0.97

01:27:54.800 experience when you put

01:27:56.200 yourself in the hands of 0.92

01:27:57.700 liars and butchers? 1.00

01:27:58.900 You mean that story?

01:27:59.740 Okay, so this is what

01:28:00.960 parents don't know that

01:28:03.280 they must understand, and

01:28:05.960 they have to understand

01:28:06.800 this before their kid

01:28:08.760 comes home and says,

01:28:10.140 Mom, I'm not your

01:28:11.700 daughter, I'm your son.

01:28:12.800 They need to know this way

01:28:14.520 before that happens, and

01:28:16.820 that's what I want to do

01:28:17.660 for them.

01:28:18.660 Yeah.

01:28:19.560 Now, look, the way that

01:28:22.060 the legacy media and the

01:28:24.180 left-wing activists react to

01:28:26.140 a conversation such as

01:28:27.660 ours is to point out that

01:28:29.840 we're scaremongering and

01:28:31.760 that this doesn't really

01:28:33.500 pose a threat to, let's

01:28:35.120 say, the vast majority of

01:28:36.280 people, and it's of much

01:28:37.240 more help to the small

01:28:38.440 minority that it's aimed

01:28:39.520 at than it is harm, and

01:28:41.220 that what we're doing is

01:28:42.420 stirring up fear and

01:28:43.820 gaslighting and, you know,

01:28:44.800 all the sorts of defensive

01:28:46.380 maneuvers that the radicals

01:28:48.220 engage in.

01:28:49.300 So why do you think it's

01:28:51.260 necessary for all parents,

01:28:53.360 and so this isn't just

01:28:54.220 parents who have kids with

01:28:55.440 gender dysphoria, why do 1.00

01:28:57.120 you think it's necessary for

01:28:58.440 all parents to be a

01:28:59.840 what would you say, aware

01:29:01.400 of what's going on in the

01:29:02.520 schools, and why do you

01:29:03.960 think that that's of

01:29:04.800 sufficient widespread

01:29:05.940 concern so that your

01:29:07.460 concerns shouldn't be just

01:29:09.060 dismissed as

01:29:09.940 conspiratorial delusion,

01:29:12.500 let's say?

01:29:13.200 Well, first of all, let's

01:29:14.700 look at the numbers just in

01:29:17.260 the past five years, ten

01:29:19.940 years, of this explosive

01:29:22.120 growth of individuals who

01:29:26.120 are coming in for treatment

01:29:27.840 for gender dysphoria, so

01:29:29.640 there is a hysteria that

01:29:31.100 we're in the midst of.

01:29:34.100 You know, it's a wave, it's

01:29:35.980 a tsunami.

01:29:37.000 I hope that we're at the

01:29:38.760 crest of the wave right now,

01:29:40.440 but we could just be at the

01:29:41.520 beginning.

01:29:42.900 I mean, you know, just ten

01:29:44.340 years ago, we had rates of,

01:29:47.520 you know, one in ten to thirty

01:29:51.080 to a hundred thousand people

01:29:52.840 with this particular disorder.

01:29:56.380 We didn't even have numbers.

01:29:58.260 It was so rare, let's say

01:30:00.600 twenty years ago, it was so

01:30:02.160 rare for a teenager to present

01:30:04.800 as opposed to a little kid or

01:30:06.800 an older person.

01:30:08.540 It was so rare for, I mean,

01:30:10.780 even they were rare, but it was

01:30:12.900 even more rare for an adolescent

01:30:15.320 to suddenly come out with this

01:30:19.020 new identity and with gender

01:30:20.420 dysphoria.

01:30:21.620 So, those people were so rare

01:30:24.660 just ten, fifteen years ago,

01:30:26.400 and now we have studies showing,

01:30:28.900 you know, ten percent, twenty

01:30:31.420 percent of a high school class

01:30:33.260 in an urban high school might

01:30:35.180 identify as not being male or

01:30:37.220 female.

01:30:38.100 So, I don't know where this is

01:30:39.780 going.

01:30:40.320 Is it, you know, is it going to

01:30:41.980 forty percent?

01:30:43.900 That's why parents have to be

01:30:45.400 aware of this.

01:30:46.380 I would also say, in terms of

01:30:49.020 fear-mongering, you know, the

01:30:50.160 charge of fear-mongering, and

01:30:51.740 it's really only a minority of

01:30:53.720 people who are going to suffer,

01:30:55.800 we have no data whatsoever to

01:30:59.560 support that, no long-term data

01:31:01.580 whatsoever.

01:31:02.520 The data that we do have shows

01:31:05.340 us that the regret over this,

01:31:09.240 you know, massive life change and

01:31:11.480 these surgeries might take eight

01:31:13.760 to ten years to develop.

01:31:14.940 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:17.700 Yeah, and I would add that not

01:31:21.880 only does it take time to

01:31:24.320 develop, it takes time to

01:31:27.020 acknowledge it and to come out

01:31:29.320 with it publicly.

01:31:33.580 And the research that we do have...

01:31:35.640 So, do you have any advice?

01:31:38.320 I was going to say that those

01:31:39.700 people that regret it, they're not

01:31:42.000 going back to the clinics and

01:31:43.380 telling them, there's no one

01:31:44.600 keeping the statistics on them.

01:31:47.240 They're not coming back to their

01:31:48.660 doctors and saying, how did you do

01:31:50.500 this to me?

01:31:51.620 They can't sue, it's too late.

01:31:55.960 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:57.940 So, why have you got away with it?

01:31:59.800 I mean, you know, people are

01:32:01.160 cancelled pretty hard, and it's

01:32:03.000 really devastating for people to be

01:32:04.760 cancelled.

01:32:05.220 Like, I've seen, I know about 200

01:32:07.120 people who've been mobbed for

01:32:08.920 expressing opinions that aren't in

01:32:10.920 accordance with the radical leftist

01:32:12.580 ideology.

01:32:13.700 Most people respond to that being

01:32:15.360 mobbed and excluded as if they've

01:32:17.320 contracted a pretty damn serious 0.90

01:32:18.940 illness, you know.

01:32:20.020 I've seen very...

01:32:21.040 Well, Jay Bhattacharya, the

01:32:22.360 physician from Stanford who was

01:32:24.180 mobbed for his views on COVID, he

01:32:26.200 lost 35 pounds in three months when

01:32:28.400 Stanford basically turned its back

01:32:30.280 on him.

01:32:30.660 And I've seen my colleagues hounded

01:32:32.700 into, well, into asylums in some 0.96

01:32:35.140 circumstances as a consequence of

01:32:36.860 this.

01:32:37.340 Now, you've been standing up against

01:32:39.600 this for a long time, and you

01:32:41.460 dared to go on Mount Walsh's

01:32:43.180 documentary, which was, you know,

01:32:45.140 quite the provocative move.

01:32:47.320 What is a woman? 1.00

01:32:48.940 Can you tell me that?

01:32:53.020 Well, you're at the Women's March,

01:32:54.080 you must have some idea.

01:32:54.900 Please, if one person could tell me

01:32:56.540 what a woman it is.

01:32:57.140 You are not here for women! 1.00

01:32:58.860 We ask you to leave!

01:33:00.220 What is that?

01:33:02.220 Why is it that you've been able to

01:33:04.180 get away with this, so to speak,

01:33:06.640 and to be able to withstand it?

01:33:08.180 What's different in your case, do

01:33:09.620 you think?

01:33:10.040 Oh, no, I've paid a price.

01:33:12.520 Oh, I've certainly paid a price.

01:33:15.700 Years ago, when I worked at UCLA,

01:33:18.920 my first book came out in 2008

01:33:21.760 called Unprotected, and I challenged

01:33:25.720 the political correctness of what

01:33:27.960 was going on in that student health

01:33:29.800 clinic.

01:33:31.020 Oh, I paid a very heavy price.

01:33:34.220 I was shunned.

01:33:35.040 People who I thought were my friends

01:33:37.380 stopped talking to me.

01:33:39.280 After 11 years of very high, you know,

01:33:43.200 positive annual reviews of my work,

01:33:47.220 suddenly, after my book came out,

01:33:49.160 I got a negative review.

01:33:52.140 And eventually, I had to leave.

01:33:54.180 I left because I became,

01:33:56.460 I was marginalized.

01:33:57.280 So why did you continue?

01:34:00.900 Why didn't that stop you?

01:34:02.600 I mean, look, people often apologize,

01:34:04.600 right?

01:34:04.800 They apologize and they backpedal.

01:34:06.620 And you continued moving forward

01:34:09.120 despite the fact that you were facing

01:34:10.940 substantial opposition for your views.

01:34:12.900 Like, why do you, because this is rare.

01:34:15.460 This is why I'm concentrating on it.

01:34:17.020 You know, lots of psychiatrists and

01:34:19.180 psychologists and counselors know perfectly

01:34:21.220 well that the sorts of things that we've

01:34:23.360 been discussing today are 100% true.

01:34:27.000 They know it, but they will not stand up

01:34:29.620 and say it.

01:34:30.360 Now, you did and you got punished for it.

01:34:32.360 Why didn't you apologize and quit?

01:34:34.240 Okay.

01:34:34.560 I think there are two reasons.

01:34:36.520 I'm going to say, number one,

01:34:38.560 is that my parents were Holocaust survivors.

01:34:42.060 And all of my grandparents and a good bit

01:34:46.220 a good bit of both sides of the family

01:34:49.100 were exterminated, were victims of the Holocaust. 0.63

01:34:55.880 So I understand tyranny and I understand lies

01:34:59.640 and I understand when dangerous people

01:35:03.960 stand up and say falsehoods

01:35:06.960 and they are followed out of fear and intimidation.

01:35:13.100 I understand that too well.

01:35:16.220 And I would say the other reason is that

01:35:18.660 I'm a person of faith, deep faith,

01:35:22.260 and I believe that there are eternal truths.

01:35:27.380 And I believe that part of why I'm here in the world

01:35:32.140 is to stand up in my small way when I can

01:35:38.740 to stand up for truth and to protect

01:35:44.080 especially young people and their families

01:35:47.140 from this terrible darkness of lies.

01:35:52.240 Okay.

01:35:53.120 Okay.

01:35:53.780 Well, that's a good place to end, Dr. Grossman,

01:35:56.560 I would say.

01:35:57.860 Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me

01:36:00.520 on YouTube today and its associated platforms.

01:36:03.240 For everybody watching and listening,

01:36:05.840 Dr. Grossman, I'll just remind you,

01:36:07.900 has wrote a book called

01:36:09.020 You're Teaching My Children What?

01:36:10.700 back in 2009 and a new one coming out very soon,

01:36:14.400 Lost in Transnation,

01:36:16.180 A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness.

01:36:18.680 She also appeared on Matt Walsh's documentary,

01:36:21.480 What is a Woman? 1.00

01:36:22.080 which is where I encountered her work.

01:36:25.300 I'm going to talk to Dr. Grossman

01:36:27.540 for another half an hour

01:36:28.440 on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

01:36:30.280 Those of you who would like to hear

01:36:32.000 the continuation of this conversation

01:36:33.780 in a slightly different direction

01:36:35.320 are more than welcome to do so.

01:36:36.980 Show some support for the Daily Wire Plus people

01:36:39.900 who've also facilitated this conversation

01:36:42.280 and many like it.

01:36:43.960 For all of you who are watching and listening,

01:36:46.040 your time and attention is not taken for granted.

01:36:48.220 It's certainly appreciated.

01:36:49.240 And to Dr. Grossman,

01:36:51.100 well, thank you very much

01:36:51.920 for agreeing to talk to me today

01:36:53.140 and for, well, telling all the stories

01:36:55.320 you told to everybody who's listening.

01:36:56.880 I'm sure there are many parents out there

01:36:58.880 who are tearing their hair out

01:37:00.640 in utter desperation,

01:37:02.060 who desperately need something approximating

01:37:04.520 the runes of a life raft to cling to.

01:37:07.120 And at least you can provide some evidence

01:37:09.380 that not every psychiatrist and counselor

01:37:11.580 in the entire bloody country

01:37:13.280 or the West for that matter 0.97

01:37:14.780 has gone stark raving mad 1.00

01:37:16.420 and become cowardly and delusional. 0.99

01:37:18.480 And so we much appreciated on that front. 0.74

01:37:21.540 And I do think the tide is turning.

01:37:23.500 The closure of the Tavistock Clinic in the UK

01:37:25.520 is a big deal,

01:37:27.020 especially given the bombshell revelations

01:37:29.140 that emerged in the aftermath.

01:37:31.000 And as you said,

01:37:32.220 the Scandinavians and the Brits

01:37:33.700 have adopted a much more sensible stance

01:37:37.060 and comparatively rapidly.

01:37:38.980 And so I can't see that the US and Canada,

01:37:41.800 Australia, New Zealand

01:37:42.740 can withstand that for very long.

01:37:44.480 So we'll pray, you know,

01:37:46.700 that all this butchery and lies

01:37:48.620 starts to come to an end relatively quickly.

01:37:51.460 And then if it does,

01:37:52.300 well, you've played some cardinal role in that.

01:37:54.420 So hooray for that.

01:37:56.360 Thank you.

01:37:58.920 You bet.

01:37:59.620 All right, everyone.

01:38:00.820 We'll see you, well,

01:38:02.320 on the next YouTube discussion

01:38:04.700 or on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

01:38:07.700 Ciao.

01:38:09.400 Hello, everyone.

01:38:10.720 I would encourage you to continue

01:38:12.020 listening to my conversation

01:38:13.680 with my guest on dailywireplus.com.

01:38:17.260 and I'll see you next time.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - April 10, 2023

347. Parental Trauma in a World of Gender Insanity ｜ Miriam Grossman MD

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript