The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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00:00:14.700 Hello, everyone.

00:00:31.060 Today, I'm speaking with Carol Markowitz, writer of the new book, Stolen Youth, and a columnist at the New York Post.

00:00:40.480 We discussed the ideological capture, not just of our school systems, but of our children.

00:00:47.080 From the pornographic books being peddled into libraries, to the authoritarian doctrines letting bad teachers preach, keeping good teachers silent.

00:00:57.260 This interview is vital for parents worried about the state of the K-12 public school system.

00:01:02.860 So, Carol, you have a book, Stolen Youth, and that's being published by Daily Wire.

00:01:10.480 By the Daily Wire crew.

00:01:12.760 And so, is that out?

00:01:15.300 And if not, when is it out?

00:01:16.780 And then, even more importantly, what is it about?

00:01:20.320 It is out.

00:01:21.380 It came out March 15th.

00:01:23.520 And it's about the way the woke are targeting our children for indoctrination and what parents can do about it.

00:01:31.520 All right.

00:01:31.860 So, let me ask you a specific question about that.

00:01:34.560 I've been trying to think this through, watching the American public school system implode.

00:01:43.840 So, I want to walk a hypothesis by you, and maybe then you can tell me what you think of it in light of what you've been researching.

00:01:51.340 So, our whole society decided, a couple of decades ago, to include gay relationships under the broader umbrella of socially acceptable and or desirable relationships.

00:02:08.740 That was the gay marriage issue, and that started out as a progressive movement, but eventually, the classic liberals and the conservatives came on board.

00:02:20.220 And we made a societal decision to expand the definition of conjugal union, let's say, if not on the religious front, at least on the state front, and often on the religious front.

00:02:32.040 Now, that produces a thorny problem, you might say, because what you've done then as a society is to sacralize same-sex sexual activity.

00:02:47.680 Now, that brings up the next problem, which is, well, once you've decided that there's no moral or qualitative distinction between homosexual sex and heterosexual sex,

00:03:04.640 and you've already decided that you're also going to educate your children on the sex front,

00:03:11.540 then you have to solve the problem of exactly what you teach children about sex.

00:03:16.680 And you might say the default would be, well, you spend half the time teaching them about heterosexual processes, let's say,

00:03:25.920 and you spend half the time teaching them about homosexual practices, because since there's no distinction in value, there's no reason to draw a boundary.

00:03:37.400 And then the problem gets even worse after that, because if the default rule of thumb now is every proclivity has an equal opportunity to be put forward on the educational front,

00:03:52.160 you have to face the problem of, well, what if all the books that your children are reading feature only heterosexual couples?

00:04:01.120 Do you now have to transform the entire canon of children's literature so that all other forms of sexual encounter get equal airtime?

00:04:10.980 And it seems to me, number one, that the answer to that is, we don't know how to do that.

00:04:18.780 Number two, we're trying to give every proclivity equal airtime.

00:04:24.740 And number three, that's destroying the public education system.

00:04:29.260 So, what do you think of that?

00:04:31.980 What's your take on the situation?

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00:06:12.940 So it's interesting because one of the things that we cover in the book is how children's books have gotten so inappropriate in so many different ways.

00:06:27.200 And I think a lot of the time, these books are allowed into the classroom or into the children's libraries because they're specifically LGBT.

00:06:39.800 A lot of the pornographic books, for example, that Ron DeSantis in Florida, my governor, is trying to pull out of elementary school libraries are pornography books.

00:06:50.700 But they're specifically gay pornography, and they use that as cover to say, if you don't like these pornographic books in your elementary school library, then perhaps you're anti-gay, perhaps you're homophobic.

00:07:04.520 And so they use this all as an excuse to kind of get these things in front of children.

00:07:10.020 It's a wider issue of much younger sexualization and just pitching ideas to kids that are completely inappropriate.

00:07:21.140 They wouldn't allow this kind of thing to go on if it were straight sex.

00:07:25.100 They wouldn't let a pornographic book with straight couples into libraries.

00:07:30.860 They wouldn't let, let's say, a stripper grind and dance in front of children.

00:07:35.260 But drag queens are okay.

00:07:37.080 And if you challenge that, then you're the problem.

00:07:41.420 So two things come out of that.

00:07:43.580 Like, who do you think is the they in question exactly?

00:07:47.960 It's a wide they.

00:07:50.260 It's, we try to answer this question in the book because this is a really good question.

00:07:55.140 It's not some vague they.

00:07:57.000 And in fact, a lot of it is, I don't like the idea of saying it's an ideology that targets children.

00:08:02.980 No, it's people that target children with their ideology.

00:08:07.360 A lot of it does come at the top.

00:08:09.760 So you have like teachers unions, teachers accreditation societies.

00:08:14.600 All of that is, has been captured by the ideologically woke.

00:08:20.080 And so this is being spread throughout the U.S. and I'm sure elsewhere, really from the top.

00:08:26.540 And there, if you look at like library associations, and I know that that sounds crazy.

00:08:31.540 Before we started researching this book, I would have thought, oh, this is a conspiracy

00:08:35.340 theory.

00:08:37.180 Why would the libraries want to push this kind of thing?

00:08:39.760 But they do.

00:08:40.780 And they have like these annual meetings where they decide what kind of books are going to

00:08:45.520 be in our libraries.

00:08:46.860 And they specifically say things like, it's okay to not tell the parents what the kids are

00:08:51.980 taking out of the library.

00:08:53.780 That's crazy.

00:08:54.460 Parents should be the last line of defense for their kids, but they can't be if they don't

00:08:58.640 know what's going on.

00:09:00.240 So your sense is that there are, well, targeted groups of activists fundamentally who are pushing

00:09:06.260 this agenda.

00:09:08.200 That brings up two additional questions, I suppose.

00:09:11.780 One is, why would they do that?

00:09:13.420 And the second is, what exactly constitutes pornographic content?

00:09:18.300 And I know that's a particularly thorny question.

00:09:20.560 Let's talk about why, first of all.

00:09:22.640 Like my sense of this, looking at it historically, because there have been pushes for, let's say,

00:09:30.480 liberalization of childhood sexual behavior that have been mounted for decades now.

00:09:37.160 There was a famous petition signed back in the early 70s by a whole coterie of French intellectuals

00:09:42.960 aiming at radically lowering the age of consent, making the claim that children were perfectly

00:09:47.400 capable of consenting to, essentially, to sexual relationships.

00:09:52.860 Now, you might ask why adults would be interested in doing that.

00:09:57.900 And I suppose the positive side is that they're trying to free children from unnecessary constraints

00:10:05.120 by tyrannical adults.

00:10:06.400 But the darker end of that is something more like the entire movement to promote sexual freedom

00:10:19.500 is grounded in a very narrow hedonism.

00:10:22.520 And I would say it's narrow, because narrow means willing to sacrifice everything to the pleasures

00:10:30.400 of the moment.

00:10:32.040 Now, you know, there is a psychological literature on the personality attributes of people who

00:10:39.900 engage in short-term mating strategies.

00:10:42.040 So that would be casual sex mating strategies.

00:10:46.460 And the tilt towards casual mating strategies, rather than long-term relationships, let's say

00:10:53.640 committed relationships, is associated with what's been called the dark tetrad group of

00:10:59.840 personality traits.

00:11:01.060 And that's narcissistic, manipulative or Machiavellian, psychopathic, that's parasitic and predatory,

00:11:09.740 and, because that wasn't enough, sadistic.

00:11:14.820 And so what you have is a group of people, and arguably, there is a small minority of people

00:11:21.120 who are extremely oriented towards maximizing short-term pleasure, their own short-term pleasure,

00:11:26.800 and perfectly willing to sacrifice everything to that, and also perfectly capable to demonize

00:11:32.840 and destroy reputations in that pursuit.

00:11:35.020 And they attempt, I think what's happening is that they're attempting in every desperate way possible

00:11:41.440 to ensure that their hedonism moves forward in an untrammeled manner,

00:11:46.540 but also that they can make a moral claim that any objection to their hedonistic behavior is nothing

00:11:52.380 but prejudice, right?

00:11:53.840 Which is, the radical leftists are extremely good at maneuvering and manipulating on that front.

00:11:59.380 So that seems to be associated with the why.

00:12:02.980 In your investigations, you talk about the they that are pushing this agenda, for example,

00:12:08.760 in library groups and among teacher groups and so forth.

00:12:11.700 What's your sense of the underlying motivation?

00:12:15.440 I think it's a cultural revolution.

00:12:17.880 And I think we've seen it before in so many countries.

00:12:21.080 We open the book with a history chapter.

00:12:23.540 I was born in the Soviet Union.

00:12:26.360 I came to the U.S. as a small child.

00:12:28.940 And these, so many things that I heard throughout my life,

00:12:32.240 I feel like are happening right now in our country.

00:12:35.760 And I don't know that, you know, I ever felt like this before.

00:12:40.340 Throughout my life, people have said,

00:12:42.060 oh, doesn't this feel Soviet to you?

00:12:43.740 Like the 1990s, the early 2000s, like, isn't this Soviet feeling?

00:12:47.760 And I would always say no.

00:12:49.360 But now I see it.

00:12:51.500 I see that we're moving in the direction of an authoritarian system

00:12:56.020 where neighbors inform on each other and people are afraid to speak.

00:13:01.800 And so much of this, to me, began under COVID, but has really accelerated.

00:13:07.680 They've managed to force this cultural revolution on all of us.

00:13:11.700 And they're starting with the kids, just like all the revolutions before them.

00:13:15.840 And the only difference is that in places like the U.S.,

00:13:20.360 you know it's happening.

00:13:23.880 My Soviet ancestors could probably say that they didn't know it was happening.

00:13:28.340 They didn't have the internet.

00:13:29.440 They didn't have much news.

00:13:31.200 And in other countries, too, in China and Cambodia,

00:13:34.140 these places could say that we didn't know.

00:13:37.220 We didn't know what the leaders were doing.

00:13:38.820 We didn't know what people in charge were doing.

00:13:40.860 I don't think people in America can say that.

00:13:43.520 And for us, part of the reason of writing this book

00:13:45.660 is to make sure that they can't say that.

00:13:48.320 So the overt sexualization of children,

00:13:53.460 let me add another wrinkle to this just to make things further complicated.

00:13:58.080 A long while back, five years ago, I interviewed Milo Yiannopoulos.

00:14:06.240 And Milo was quite an interesting person, extraordinarily extroverted,

00:14:12.780 dramatic, charismatic.

00:14:15.380 He made quite a splash on university campuses for a couple of years

00:14:18.700 as a right-wing provocateur, you might say,

00:14:22.760 but coming from the LGBT side of the community spectrum.

00:14:28.660 And I talked to him a little bit about his early sexual experiences.

00:14:34.960 He was inducted, you might say, into homosexual activity

00:14:40.760 when he was about 14, something like that,

00:14:43.520 at the hands, as it turned out, of someone who was a member of a religious community

00:14:47.360 who was about 29 or so.

00:14:51.820 And he said that that was consensual

00:14:55.340 and that it was welcome on his part

00:14:57.820 and also that he was capable of making that decision even though he was 14.

00:15:03.100 That was his retrospective memory.

00:15:06.440 But I had my doubts about that when I talked to him,

00:15:11.940 listening as a clinician, first of all,

00:15:13.920 because I don't care how smart you are when you're 14,

00:15:17.220 you're still only 14.

00:15:20.600 And just because you thought you were competent at that point

00:15:26.480 to make decisions like that doesn't mean that that was an accurate memory

00:15:31.120 to carry forward, let's say, into your adult years.

00:15:34.000 And Milo didn't seem to harbor any malice or resentment towards the person

00:15:39.900 who he had been involved with.

00:15:41.920 But later on, his star plummeted, let's say,

00:15:45.760 and things got pretty twisted and bent for Milo.

00:15:48.640 He ended up converting to a rather radical form of Christian evangelism

00:15:54.060 and eschewing his homosexual lifestyle.

00:15:57.820 And I'm not saying that he saw the light or anything like that.

00:16:02.260 I'm saying that all of that was evidence

00:16:05.340 of an extraordinarily deep-seated existential confusion.

00:16:09.160 But one of the things Milo did say,

00:16:11.420 and this is a very thorny issue,

00:16:13.480 was that that practice of having young gay men

00:16:17.080 inducted into active homosexual activity by older men

00:16:22.140 is an extremely common part of the subculture.

00:16:25.200 Now, nobody talks about that outside of the subculture, let's say.

00:16:29.900 And part of the reason for that is that if you even bring it up,

00:16:32.920 I understand that this is also common in organizations like,

00:16:37.360 well, there isn't any evidence that I know of

00:16:40.240 that shows that the rate of child abuse among Roman Catholic clergy

00:16:44.520 is any higher than it is among other groups of people

00:16:48.120 that have access to children, let's say.

00:16:50.160 But I have heard through the grapevine

00:16:53.440 and as a consequence of my investigations

00:16:56.380 that this practice of older men

00:16:59.200 inducting younger men into active homosexual practice

00:17:04.040 is, what would you say?

00:17:07.520 It's a subcultural given.

00:17:10.680 And so that complicates the situation very much as well.

00:17:13.800 You know, there's a proclivity among the gay male community

00:17:16.400 to be attracted to youth.

00:17:19.920 Now, it's not different, really different,

00:17:21.660 than heterosexual male attraction to heterosexual female

00:17:24.440 because there's a proclivity for men to like younger women.

00:17:28.120 And this is an extension of that.

00:17:29.900 But it certainly makes the discussion of all of this

00:17:32.100 much more complicated,

00:17:34.540 especially when you're also talking about the motives.

00:17:36.860 I think part of the question we're dealing with is,

00:17:39.540 you know, is it possible to develop a society

00:17:41.720 that manifests tolerance of or even depreciation

00:17:45.900 for committed homosexual relationships

00:17:50.100 that doesn't run aground on the problem

00:17:53.340 of what to teach children about sex?

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00:19:02.140 So I would say that, first of all,

00:19:06.960 everything that Milo says should be taken with a grain of salt.

00:19:10.900 I think that when he said that,

00:19:12.860 it's one of the many controversial,

00:19:15.040 splashy things that he says to get into our news,

00:19:18.480 which I've met him.

00:19:20.320 He is very personable.

00:19:21.960 He's very magnetic.

00:19:23.320 I get it.

00:19:24.040 But, you know,

00:19:25.780 I think that there was a level of disgust

00:19:29.340 when he said that

00:19:30.440 and also a pushback from a lot of gay people,

00:19:34.860 not just on the left.

00:19:36.940 The idea that they're predators,

00:19:39.300 and obviously I think that that's something

00:19:41.540 that they argued very strongly against.

00:19:45.740 So Milo isn't the best to me example,

00:19:48.840 but your question is right.

00:19:50.880 How do we protect children in any case from anyone?

00:19:55.960 And I think that a lot of what we address in the book

00:19:58.420 is that you have to have sort of open conversations

00:20:01.460 with your kids about what happens out in the world

00:20:05.100 and how to protect them

00:20:06.860 is to lay a foundation at home

00:20:09.260 and to make sure that there is this open line

00:20:11.600 of communication.

00:20:12.820 I think a lot of the work that you do,

00:20:15.380 for example,

00:20:15.980 is to help adults be resilient.

00:20:18.840 Well, what if we didn't mess up kids in the first place?

00:20:21.420 What if we didn't have to have unresilient adults

00:20:24.220 that needed fixing or help?

00:20:26.700 What if we treated childhood

00:20:29.340 as a time to teach them how to be in the world

00:20:33.540 instead of to indoctrinate them

00:20:36.200 with far-left ideas in their schools

00:20:38.620 and libraries and doctor's office

00:20:40.680 and media companies and every other avenue?

00:20:45.540 What do you think,

00:20:46.900 where do you think the line is crossed

00:20:49.460 in relationship to children's literature,

00:20:51.700 let's say,

00:20:52.720 on the sex education versus pornography front?

00:20:57.220 I mean, it's famously difficult to define pornography.

00:21:00.020 I think there was a famous Supreme Court decision

00:21:02.800 at one point

00:21:03.720 where the justice involved in deciding whether

00:21:08.360 a particular, I believe it was a magazine,

00:21:11.160 transgressed against community standards.

00:21:14.460 He said something approximating.

00:21:16.940 I can't define pornography,

00:21:18.740 but I know it when I see it.

00:21:20.940 And that's not a completely unreasonable answer

00:21:23.820 because there are lots of things we know

00:21:25.900 when we see that we can't define or make explicit.

00:21:30.380 But when push comes to shove,

00:21:32.420 which is what's happening in the schools right now,

00:21:34.420 it's no easy matter to clearly define the line

00:21:38.180 between what constitutes pornography

00:21:40.180 and what constitutes open and frank discussion

00:21:42.860 about sexuality.

00:21:44.620 And of course, what's happening in Florida

00:21:46.480 is that the more radical types,

00:21:48.620 the more progressive types,

00:21:49.660 and also, by the way,

00:21:51.260 some people who are concerned with censorship

00:21:52.900 is that the attempt to regulate

00:21:56.020 what's being shown to children

00:21:57.540 can easily degenerate

00:22:00.380 into a form of heavy-handed state censorship.

00:22:04.020 And so, for you personally,

00:22:06.200 you've been researching this book for a long time,

00:22:09.240 thinking about these matters.

00:22:11.280 I mean, do you regard yourself,

00:22:14.000 like, are you a conservative

00:22:16.380 on the sexual morality front?

00:22:18.420 Is that embedded in your own,

00:22:21.460 what would you say,

00:22:23.040 your own concerns about purity and propriety?

00:22:27.060 And how do you think that

00:22:28.720 we can draw a line

00:22:31.020 between what constitutes appropriate

00:22:32.960 sexually informative material

00:22:37.060 and what constitutes pornography?

00:22:39.440 These books that you've been objecting to,

00:22:41.140 that DeSantis has been objecting to,

00:22:43.240 what line is it that they're crossing

00:22:45.460 as far as you're concerned?

00:22:47.500 So DeSantis has been asked this,

00:22:49.940 and he held a press conference,

00:22:52.140 and he said,

00:22:52.900 I'm going to show you the books.

00:22:54.740 And the news agencies

00:22:56.480 had to pull away

00:22:57.680 from his press conference

00:22:58.840 because they couldn't show

00:23:00.260 what was in the books on the news.

00:23:02.780 I think that's a fairly good standard.

00:23:05.100 If you can't show it on the news to adults,

00:23:07.400 then you can't show it to my kindergartner.

00:23:09.580 And that's not a crazy thing to say.

00:23:11.940 I'm generally very permissive

00:23:14.100 about, you know, written material,

00:23:16.520 not to kids.

00:23:17.460 I don't think it should be

00:23:18.900 immediately because something's okay

00:23:21.460 to be published means that

00:23:23.220 it should be acceptable for children.

00:23:25.140 It's not.

00:23:25.740 Not everything is made for kids.

00:23:27.580 And I don't just mean books.

00:23:28.820 A lot of things in the world

00:23:29.960 are not appropriate for children.

00:23:32.560 And so in these books,

00:23:34.880 it's not simply sex acts.

00:23:38.460 There's things like sexting in the books.

00:23:41.240 Again, this is in the library

00:23:43.340 for elementary school.

00:23:45.380 So until fifth grade,

00:23:46.840 which in the U.S.

00:23:47.900 is like 11, 12 years old, 11.

00:23:51.700 And so these books are accessible

00:23:53.960 to really small children.

00:23:55.940 And it's drawing.

00:23:57.580 So it looks almost cartoony.

00:24:00.200 And librarians suggest it to kids.

00:24:03.500 There's graphic sex acts.

00:24:06.180 There's, I don't know how much

00:24:07.580 I'm allowed to say here,

00:24:09.260 but, you know, there's oral sex.

00:24:10.580 Say exactly what you have to say.

00:24:15.700 There's language like blowjob.

00:24:17.900 So to speak.

00:24:19.220 You know, blowjobs, butt plugs, etc.

00:24:22.760 In these books that are available

00:24:24.940 to small children.

00:24:26.480 Now, should they be available

00:24:27.920 to high school children,

00:24:29.420 to, you know, teenagers?

00:24:31.060 Even that I'm iffy on.

00:24:32.380 Why should it be available

00:24:33.300 in their school library?

00:24:35.480 But to smaller children?

00:24:36.560 I don't even think it's a question.

00:24:38.480 I don't understand why we're,

00:24:39.820 you know, having this debate

00:24:41.200 because it's so clear

00:24:43.140 that if we can't read it on the news,

00:24:44.900 we shouldn't have it in their library.

00:24:46.400 Right, so that's a practical demonstration

00:24:49.140 of the violation of community standards.

00:24:51.400 Well, okay, this brings up another issue.

00:24:53.620 So, you might say

00:24:56.380 that there's a certain minimum

00:24:58.260 degree of sex education

00:25:00.860 that should be provided

00:25:01.900 as part of the public education system

00:25:03.900 and that children

00:25:05.460 who are properly educated

00:25:07.640 in sexual matters, for example,

00:25:09.060 might be less likely

00:25:10.780 to end up pregnant as teenagers.

00:25:13.140 Now, I would say

00:25:14.620 the empirical evidence

00:25:16.140 for the utility

00:25:17.460 of sexual education

00:25:18.760 in public schools

00:25:19.680 as a preventative measure

00:25:21.480 for teenage pregnancy

00:25:22.680 is damn dismal.

00:25:24.620 There's no real evidence

00:25:26.120 that providing

00:25:27.500 just the facts, ma'am,

00:25:30.400 so to speak,

00:25:31.660 to kids

00:25:32.260 had any effect whatsoever

00:25:34.260 on the remediation

00:25:36.760 of childhood teenage pregnancy,

00:25:38.560 let's say.

00:25:39.040 And I would also say

00:25:41.280 that kids can get

00:25:43.000 so much information

00:25:43.920 about sex

00:25:44.780 on the net.

00:25:46.240 Now, not that that's

00:25:47.460 a particularly good way

00:25:48.460 of going about it,

00:25:49.240 but it's certainly available

00:25:50.200 that the additional value

00:25:52.200 of having teachers

00:25:53.300 teach sexual education

00:25:56.000 seems debatable at best.

00:25:58.560 But then,

00:25:59.680 you could perhaps say

00:26:01.200 that there's a place

00:26:02.280 in the schools

00:26:02.860 for discussion

00:26:04.740 of the biology

00:26:05.620 of reproduction,

00:26:06.480 maybe in a biology class,

00:26:08.920 because obviously

00:26:09.740 reproduction is a major

00:26:10.880 element of biology.

00:26:12.340 But then that

00:26:13.160 brings up another

00:26:14.360 thorny issue,

00:26:15.240 which is,

00:26:16.680 is it possible

00:26:18.720 or desirable

00:26:21.820 to offer

00:26:23.820 value-free

00:26:25.060 sex education?

00:26:26.820 You know,

00:26:27.020 or is that a contradiction

00:26:28.080 in terms?

00:26:29.380 Because if you describe

00:26:30.520 the process merely

00:26:31.620 in terms of its mechanics,

00:26:33.520 you're making

00:26:35.120 the case implicitly

00:26:36.840 that,

00:26:37.820 what would you say,

00:26:39.900 that sex can be viewed

00:26:41.080 purely through

00:26:41.760 the lens of objectivity.

00:26:43.780 And it isn't obvious

00:26:44.960 at all that that's the case.

00:26:46.460 Like, it seems to me,

00:26:47.680 and this is my

00:26:48.440 socially conservative

00:26:49.440 prejudice,

00:26:50.440 you might say,

00:26:51.080 that it's actually

00:26:52.320 unethical to teach kids

00:26:53.580 about sex

00:26:54.400 outside the context

00:26:56.460 of simultaneously

00:26:57.500 teaching them

00:26:58.380 about the necessity

00:26:59.320 of long-term,

00:27:01.280 committed,

00:27:01.780 loving,

00:27:03.720 mutually reciprocal

00:27:04.920 relationships,

00:27:07.760 right?

00:27:08.080 Marriages,

00:27:08.720 for all intents

00:27:09.440 and purposes.

00:27:10.160 And that if you

00:27:10.800 divorce one

00:27:11.440 from the other,

00:27:12.040 you're already

00:27:12.660 halfway down

00:27:14.080 the slippery slope

00:27:15.060 to the kind of

00:27:15.780 perdition that

00:27:16.420 we're facing now.

00:27:18.140 Well, and then

00:27:18.620 you might say,

00:27:19.160 well, the simplest

00:27:19.720 solution on that front

00:27:20.940 would just be

00:27:21.480 to pull the schools

00:27:22.220 out of the sex

00:27:22.880 education business

00:27:23.820 altogether.

00:27:25.300 So,

00:27:26.060 what do you,

00:27:26.740 what do you think

00:27:27.640 about that?

00:27:28.260 And you've been

00:27:29.020 talking to political

00:27:29.860 figures,

00:27:30.600 you're somewhat

00:27:31.100 involved with

00:27:31.700 the DeSantis people.

00:27:33.300 Like, what's

00:27:33.860 the solution

00:27:34.520 from the conservative

00:27:35.440 side to this

00:27:36.300 conundrum?

00:27:37.540 Well, there,

00:27:38.200 I think,

00:27:39.420 is a range

00:27:40.040 of solutions.

00:27:41.200 So, one thing

00:27:41.760 I would say

00:27:42.260 is a number

00:27:42.820 of years ago

00:27:43.460 there was this

00:27:44.020 show called

00:27:44.600 Teen Mom

00:27:45.400 on MTV.

00:27:46.940 And there was

00:27:47.300 a study that

00:27:48.000 showed that

00:27:48.540 this show

00:27:49.540 actually did

00:27:50.460 more to

00:27:51.200 reduce teen

00:27:51.940 pregnancies

00:27:53.480 than all

00:27:55.560 of these

00:27:55.860 sex education

00:27:56.520 classes.

00:27:57.040 because they

00:27:57.780 saw

00:27:58.600 what it was

00:28:00.280 like for

00:28:00.760 a teenager

00:28:01.300 to be a

00:28:01.780 mother and

00:28:02.260 they thought,

00:28:02.860 God, I

00:28:03.180 don't want

00:28:03.580 this.

00:28:04.440 And so,

00:28:05.020 you know,

00:28:05.300 for all the

00:28:05.780 conversations

00:28:06.440 in sex education

00:28:07.560 class about

00:28:09.080 how not to

00:28:10.320 get pregnant

00:28:10.760 or why not

00:28:11.380 to get pregnant,

00:28:12.680 you know,

00:28:12.980 the image of

00:28:13.820 it really did

00:28:14.740 solidify for

00:28:16.320 kids,

00:28:16.720 I don't want

00:28:17.200 this.

00:28:18.100 The other

00:28:18.640 thing I would

00:28:19.080 say is that

00:28:19.880 the biology

00:28:20.420 classes are

00:28:21.440 running into

00:28:22.180 a different

00:28:22.960 problem at

00:28:23.540 this point

00:28:24.100 because we

00:28:25.220 can't be

00:28:25.680 honest about

00:28:26.400 a lot of

00:28:26.800 biology.

00:28:27.820 We have a

00:28:28.360 chapter in

00:28:28.860 the book

00:28:29.200 on

00:28:29.460 transgenderism.

00:28:30.980 How do

00:28:31.300 they address

00:28:31.780 transgenderism

00:28:32.940 in biology

00:28:34.380 or sex

00:28:34.920 education

00:28:35.500 classes?

00:28:36.420 They don't

00:28:37.000 address it

00:28:37.720 with any

00:28:38.020 facts.

00:28:38.540 It's all

00:28:38.980 very feelings

00:28:40.020 based and

00:28:41.000 what people

00:28:41.920 think and

00:28:42.660 feel as

00:28:43.320 opposed to

00:28:43.740 what things

00:28:44.200 actually are.

00:28:46.380 So I

00:28:47.360 would love

00:28:47.720 to see a

00:28:48.180 straight

00:28:48.460 discussion

00:28:49.040 in biology

00:28:50.320 class about

00:28:51.300 the way the

00:28:52.060 human body

00:28:52.660 works,

00:28:53.240 but we're

00:28:53.860 moving further

00:28:54.580 and further

00:28:55.040 away from

00:28:55.600 that and

00:28:56.260 it's being

00:28:56.720 filled in

00:28:57.520 with a bunch

00:28:58.140 of woke

00:28:58.620 nonsense that

00:29:00.080 our kids

00:29:00.460 aren't going

00:29:01.020 to be able

00:29:01.520 to process

00:29:02.200 at the age

00:29:03.140 that they're

00:29:03.460 at and

00:29:05.300 carry forward

00:29:06.380 into being

00:29:07.420 these resilient

00:29:08.180 capable adults.

00:29:10.040 I would say

00:29:10.700 that the

00:29:11.040 conversation about

00:29:12.480 what to teach

00:29:13.180 kids and

00:29:14.620 at what age

00:29:15.480 is larger

00:29:16.320 than just

00:29:16.840 sex either.

00:29:17.900 I don't know

00:29:18.480 why we're

00:29:19.320 teaching climate

00:29:21.060 change fear

00:29:22.160 to small

00:29:22.900 children.

00:29:23.860 There's a

00:29:24.680 lot of

00:29:24.940 evidence that

00:29:25.660 anxiety among

00:29:26.620 teenagers and

00:29:27.480 young people

00:29:28.020 is very high

00:29:28.860 because of

00:29:29.360 stuff like

00:29:29.780 this.

00:29:30.600 And why?

00:29:31.640 What are

00:29:31.980 these kids

00:29:32.360 going to do

00:29:32.740 to fight

00:29:33.100 climate change?

00:29:34.020 What are

00:29:34.300 they going to

00:29:34.660 do other

00:29:35.140 than lay

00:29:35.580 in their

00:29:35.840 bed at

00:29:36.260 night and

00:29:36.840 be afraid

00:29:37.300 that the

00:29:37.620 world is

00:29:38.000 going to

00:29:38.320 end?

00:29:39.280 So for

00:29:40.000 us,

00:29:40.980 and what

00:29:41.420 we say a

00:29:41.860 lot in

00:29:42.160 Stolen Youth

00:29:42.740 is that age

00:29:44.020 appropriateness is

00:29:45.140 such a big

00:29:45.620 part of all

00:29:46.200 of this,

00:29:46.960 and the

00:29:47.400 left really

00:29:47.940 wants to

00:29:48.480 remove the

00:29:49.460 boundaries of

00:29:50.480 age

00:29:50.680 appropriateness.

00:29:51.500 And you

00:29:51.720 could see

00:29:52.020 this with

00:29:52.440 the drag

00:29:52.920 queen shows.

00:29:54.320 It started

00:29:54.740 with drag

00:29:55.220 queen story

00:29:55.840 hour where

00:29:56.760 a drag

00:29:57.240 queen would

00:29:57.600 read a book

00:29:58.020 to kids.

00:29:59.280 Where's the

00:29:59.740 last time we

00:30:00.320 saw a book

00:30:00.940 in any of

00:30:01.980 these events?

00:30:02.820 Now it's

00:30:03.300 twerking and

00:30:04.260 dancing, and

00:30:05.780 they would never

00:30:06.200 stand for it if

00:30:07.160 it were a

00:30:07.580 straight woman

00:30:08.140 stripping and

00:30:08.920 doing the

00:30:09.300 same thing.

00:30:10.440 But because

00:30:10.980 it's, again,

00:30:11.660 they use the

00:30:12.260 LGBT shield,

00:30:13.440 this really

00:30:16.440 inappropriate

00:30:17.000 behavior becomes

00:30:18.680 something that

00:30:19.340 you must not

00:30:20.140 only accept,

00:30:21.180 you must also

00:30:21.920 support.

00:30:22.980 And a lot of

00:30:23.500 what we go

00:30:23.900 through in the

00:30:24.340 book as well

00:30:25.020 is how the

00:30:26.420 spectacle of

00:30:27.580 leftism is such

00:30:28.360 a big part of

00:30:29.040 it.

00:30:29.520 It's not just

00:30:30.300 that you need

00:30:30.700 to believe

00:30:31.280 certain things.

00:30:32.200 You need to

00:30:32.820 demonstrate that

00:30:33.580 you believe

00:30:34.020 them.

00:30:34.460 You can't

00:30:34.800 just think

00:30:35.540 Black Lives

00:30:36.140 Matter, which

00:30:36.860 is an idea

00:30:38.260 as controversial

00:30:38.900 as the earth

00:30:39.740 is round.

00:30:40.500 You need to

00:30:41.000 put the sign

00:30:41.560 in your window.

00:30:42.320 And so all

00:30:43.460 of this is

00:30:44.200 very, again,

00:30:45.020 Soviet,

00:30:45.720 totalitarian,

00:30:46.680 authoritarian,

00:30:47.660 and it's

00:30:48.480 coming here

00:30:49.180 and it's

00:30:49.700 aimed at

00:30:50.020 our kids.

00:30:52.400 So let

00:30:54.440 me make

00:30:56.980 some suggestions

00:30:57.760 about the

00:30:58.400 inadequacy of

00:30:59.500 the conservative

00:31:00.160 response to

00:31:01.020 all of this.

00:31:02.840 So 30

00:31:04.900 years ago

00:31:05.540 in the

00:31:05.840 1990s,

00:31:07.700 I was

00:31:08.660 beginning

00:31:10.160 investigations

00:31:11.020 into

00:31:11.640 predicting

00:31:12.300 long-term

00:31:13.500 success

00:31:13.960 in life.

00:31:15.800 And the

00:31:16.140 basic

00:31:17.060 measurable

00:31:17.680 predictors

00:31:18.380 are

00:31:18.780 general

00:31:19.840 cognitive

00:31:20.340 ability

00:31:20.940 and

00:31:22.120 formally

00:31:22.720 that's

00:31:23.160 measured

00:31:23.440 as IQ

00:31:24.020 often.

00:31:24.980 That's

00:31:25.180 age-corrected

00:31:26.300 general

00:31:27.260 cognitive

00:31:27.680 ability

00:31:28.160 and trait

00:31:29.320 conscientiousness

00:31:30.500 at least

00:31:31.280 for many

00:31:31.700 occupations.

00:31:33.100 And so

00:31:33.480 those are

00:31:34.060 measurable

00:31:34.480 and they're

00:31:35.460 pretty good

00:31:35.840 predictors

00:31:36.320 of long-term

00:31:36.860 outcome.

00:31:37.460 And while I

00:31:38.360 was investigating

00:31:39.040 all of that

00:31:39.780 for purely

00:31:41.000 practical reasons,

00:31:42.040 by the way,

00:31:42.460 I was trying to

00:31:43.020 figure out how

00:31:43.440 to help people

00:31:44.240 select better

00:31:45.000 employees and

00:31:45.720 how to select

00:31:46.200 better students,

00:31:47.380 those who had a

00:31:48.000 better chance of

00:31:48.680 succeeding,

00:31:49.220 let's say,

00:31:49.880 I started

00:31:50.920 investigating

00:31:51.700 alternative

00:31:52.980 theories of

00:31:55.120 human ability

00:31:56.740 and that led

00:31:57.900 me into

00:31:58.540 research that

00:32:00.340 was being

00:32:00.740 conducted

00:32:01.120 primarily at

00:32:02.000 education

00:32:02.840 schools.

00:32:03.640 Howard Gardner,

00:32:05.180 Robert Sternberg,

00:32:06.540 those were big

00:32:07.060 names in those

00:32:07.760 days.

00:32:08.680 Gardner

00:32:09.020 invented the

00:32:10.780 theory of

00:32:11.280 multiple

00:32:11.700 intelligences

00:32:12.460 and Sternberg,

00:32:14.280 the proposition

00:32:14.940 that there was

00:32:15.500 a kind of

00:32:15.900 practical

00:32:16.380 intelligence

00:32:16.940 that was

00:32:17.520 different

00:32:18.080 and could

00:32:18.820 be,

00:32:19.740 what would

00:32:20.040 you call,

00:32:20.760 promoted,

00:32:21.920 independent of

00:32:22.780 general

00:32:23.080 cognitive

00:32:23.440 ability

00:32:23.860 and I

00:32:24.500 looked into

00:32:24.900 that research

00:32:25.640 in great

00:32:26.060 detail

00:32:26.520 and concluded

00:32:27.240 along with

00:32:27.720 my colleagues

00:32:28.200 that it was

00:32:28.620 absolute

00:32:29.080 100%

00:32:30.220 nonsense

00:32:30.880 and rubbish

00:32:31.660 that all

00:32:32.560 that Gardner

00:32:33.160 had done

00:32:33.620 with his

00:32:33.980 theory of

00:32:34.440 multiple

00:32:34.760 intelligences

00:32:35.420 was repackage

00:32:36.900 the idea

00:32:37.500 of talent

00:32:38.420 and call it

00:32:39.540 intelligence

00:32:40.060 and that

00:32:40.720 all Sternberg

00:32:41.880 had done

00:32:42.300 was hand

00:32:42.840 wave about

00:32:43.380 a form of

00:32:44.100 cognitive

00:32:44.640 ability

00:32:45.080 that he

00:32:45.600 couldn't

00:32:45.940 measure

00:32:46.300 nor

00:32:46.560 demonstrate

00:32:47.100 but it

00:32:48.100 was

00:32:48.440 politically

00:32:49.220 what would

00:32:50.940 you say

00:32:51.300 welcome

00:32:51.740 because

00:32:52.220 it

00:32:52.820 challenged

00:32:53.220 the idea

00:32:53.820 that

00:32:54.240 general

00:32:55.820 cognitive

00:32:56.260 ability

00:32:56.740 is a

00:32:57.160 unitary

00:32:57.560 phenomena

00:32:58.140 which it

00:32:59.440 is

00:32:59.780 by the

00:33:00.200 way

00:33:00.440 and

00:33:01.220 that

00:33:02.980 led me

00:33:03.380 to take

00:33:03.860 a look

00:33:04.160 at what

00:33:04.640 education

00:33:05.140 schools

00:33:05.520 were doing

00:33:05.960 in more

00:33:06.700 detail

00:33:07.040 and what

00:33:07.900 I learned

00:33:08.400 and I

00:33:08.840 certainly

00:33:09.200 have learned

00:33:10.320 more of

00:33:10.920 this as

00:33:11.380 the years

00:33:11.740 have progressed

00:33:12.260 that there

00:33:13.500 isn't any

00:33:14.020 worse research

00:33:15.160 done on the

00:33:15.780 social science

00:33:16.500 front than

00:33:17.520 the research

00:33:18.120 that's done

00:33:18.760 in faculties

00:33:19.880 of education

00:33:20.540 they're

00:33:21.620 responsible

00:33:22.200 for more

00:33:22.760 pathological

00:33:23.780 educational

00:33:25.220 fads than

00:33:26.160 any other

00:33:27.360 single academic

00:33:28.260 source which

00:33:28.900 is really

00:33:29.220 saying something

00:33:29.820 because they

00:33:30.140 have to

00:33:30.420 compete with

00:33:30.880 departments

00:33:31.300 of English

00:33:31.740 and say

00:33:32.800 fields of

00:33:33.500 like faculties

00:33:34.640 of social

00:33:35.080 work and

00:33:35.600 all the

00:33:36.520 what do they

00:33:37.280 call those

00:33:37.860 grievance

00:33:38.480 study

00:33:38.840 disciplines

00:33:39.360 so you

00:33:39.880 have to

00:33:40.200 work pretty

00:33:40.580 hard to

00:33:40.920 be the

00:33:41.140 worst of

00:33:41.500 that bunch

00:33:42.000 but the

00:33:42.360 faculties

00:33:42.780 of education

00:33:43.340 have truly

00:33:43.880 managed it

00:33:44.580 now

00:33:45.180 and they're

00:33:46.160 the people

00:33:46.560 who are

00:33:46.940 training our

00:33:47.900 teachers

00:33:48.340 but it's

00:33:49.260 worse than

00:33:49.900 that

00:33:50.300 because

00:33:51.060 the students

00:33:53.040 that enroll

00:33:53.940 in faculties

00:33:54.620 of education

00:33:55.240 are not

00:33:55.980 exactly the

00:33:56.600 cream of the

00:33:57.080 crop

00:33:57.380 generally

00:33:57.820 speaking

00:33:58.380 they're often

00:33:59.440 kids who

00:34:00.000 haven't figured

00:34:00.520 out

00:34:00.880 who go into

00:34:01.840 education

00:34:02.340 as a kind

00:34:02.840 of default

00:34:03.420 because they

00:34:03.900 don't know

00:34:04.180 what else

00:34:04.500 to do

00:34:04.900 they're

00:34:06.040 not

00:34:06.840 stringently

00:34:08.040 selected

00:34:08.600 for their

00:34:09.020 academic

00:34:09.460 prowess

00:34:10.180 and they're

00:34:11.220 often people

00:34:11.820 who are

00:34:12.140 interested in

00:34:12.760 a rather

00:34:13.080 permanent

00:34:13.520 career

00:34:13.880 with a

00:34:14.260 pretty

00:34:14.440 decent

00:34:14.900 shot

00:34:15.340 of

00:34:15.640 holidays

00:34:16.260 and so

00:34:18.000 we're not

00:34:18.760 getting the

00:34:19.200 cream of the

00:34:19.660 crop

00:34:19.920 as students

00:34:20.420 and we

00:34:20.800 certainly

00:34:21.160 don't have

00:34:21.620 the cream

00:34:21.940 of the crop

00:34:22.420 as researchers

00:34:23.040 in the faculties

00:34:23.780 of education

00:34:24.340 however

00:34:25.180 the faculties

00:34:27.160 of education

00:34:27.700 have a

00:34:28.100 hammerlock

00:34:28.600 on teacher

00:34:29.080 certification

00:34:29.660 certification

00:34:29.900 and that

00:34:31.700 means that

00:34:32.360 the woke

00:34:34.520 enterprise

00:34:35.280 enters the

00:34:36.320 general

00:34:36.860 population

00:34:37.560 because of

00:34:38.840 the faculties

00:34:39.480 of education

00:34:40.260 hammerlock

00:34:41.160 control

00:34:41.680 of teacher

00:34:42.160 certification

00:34:42.840 and so my

00:34:44.020 question is

00:34:44.700 why in the

00:34:45.800 world are the

00:34:46.440 republicans

00:34:47.200 daft enough

00:34:48.220 and have been

00:34:48.960 for like

00:34:49.440 50 years

00:34:50.640 to not only

00:34:52.520 allow this

00:34:53.480 insane

00:34:54.140 monopoly

00:34:54.740 to exist

00:34:55.860 but to

00:34:56.400 continue

00:34:56.960 especially given

00:34:58.200 also that

00:34:58.820 in many states

00:34:59.960 in the US

00:35:00.440 there's actually

00:35:01.040 a teacher

00:35:01.500 shortage

00:35:01.960 and

00:35:03.140 given also

00:35:04.580 that there's

00:35:04.980 no evidence

00:35:05.520 whatsoever

00:35:06.040 that faculties

00:35:06.780 of education

00:35:07.380 have ever

00:35:07.800 produced

00:35:08.180 to show

00:35:08.620 that their

00:35:09.060 attempts

00:35:09.420 to train

00:35:10.080 teachers

00:35:10.540 actually

00:35:11.360 make

00:35:11.840 teachers

00:35:12.380 better

00:35:12.860 so you

00:35:14.220 know

00:35:14.360 we can

00:35:14.780 complain

00:35:15.180 about

00:35:15.500 the radical

00:35:16.240 leftists

00:35:16.840 pushing

00:35:17.240 their idiot

00:35:17.880 agenda

00:35:18.360 and there's

00:35:19.080 no shortage

00:35:19.580 of useful

00:35:20.100 complaining

00:35:20.540 to do

00:35:20.900 on that

00:35:21.260 front

00:35:21.500 but I

00:35:22.260 would say

00:35:22.800 well if

00:35:23.480 the bloody

00:35:23.960 conservatives

00:35:24.520 are going

00:35:24.960 to roll

00:35:25.280 over like

00:35:25.780 dimwits

00:35:26.280 and allow

00:35:26.800 the monopoly

00:35:27.560 of the

00:35:27.980 leftists

00:35:28.500 to continue

00:35:29.140 on the

00:35:29.840 teacher

00:35:30.060 certification

00:35:30.560 front

00:35:31.080 they get

00:35:31.440 exactly

00:35:31.860 we

00:35:32.500 get exactly

00:35:33.440 what we

00:35:33.840 deserve

00:35:34.200 so

00:35:35.360 we're talking

00:35:37.500 about ideology

00:35:38.180 here

00:35:38.680 and we're

00:35:38.940 talking about

00:35:39.540 the sway

00:35:39.960 of these

00:35:40.280 ideas

00:35:40.640 and even

00:35:41.020 the sway

00:35:41.460 of these

00:35:41.820 radical

00:35:42.160 individuals

00:35:42.700 but the

00:35:43.800 fundamental

00:35:44.120 problem

00:35:44.760 technically

00:35:45.280 is that

00:35:45.740 there's a

00:35:46.100 monopoly

00:35:46.520 on teacher

00:35:47.040 certification

00:35:47.560 that's been

00:35:48.280 granted

00:35:48.580 to the

00:35:48.920 faculties

00:35:49.300 of education

00:35:49.900 and they're

00:35:50.760 woke

00:35:51.180 nightmares

00:35:51.740 so

00:35:52.400 like

00:35:52.960 how in

00:35:53.540 the world

00:35:53.860 can the

00:35:54.240 republicans

00:35:54.860 and the

00:35:55.120 conservatives

00:35:55.600 in general

00:35:56.360 be so blind

00:35:57.240 hey everyone

00:35:59.380 real quick

00:35:59.940 before you

00:36:00.380 skip

00:36:00.680 i want to

00:36:01.260 talk to you

00:36:01.580 about something

00:36:02.040 serious and

00:36:02.860 important

00:36:03.300 dr jordan peterson

00:36:04.820 has created a

00:36:05.660 new series that

00:36:06.460 could be a

00:36:06.980 lifeline for

00:36:07.620 those battling

00:36:08.200 depression and

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00:36:09.540 we know how

00:36:10.780 isolating and

00:36:11.660 overwhelming these

00:36:12.380 conditions can be

00:36:13.240 and we wanted to

00:36:14.200 take a moment to

00:36:14.820 reach out to those

00:36:15.440 listening who may

00:36:16.340 be struggling

00:36:16.840 with decades of

00:36:18.200 experience helping

00:36:19.100 patients dr

00:36:20.120 peterson offers a

00:36:21.220 unique understanding

00:36:22.160 of why you might be

00:36:23.160 feeling this way in

00:36:23.980 his new series

00:36:24.720 he provides a

00:36:25.880 road map towards

00:36:26.640 healing showing

00:36:27.480 that while the

00:36:28.080 journey isn't

00:36:28.760 easy it's

00:36:29.740 absolutely possible

00:36:30.840 to find your

00:36:31.460 way forward

00:36:32.060 if you're

00:36:33.000 suffering please

00:36:33.860 know you are

00:36:34.560 not alone

00:36:35.280 there's hope and

00:36:36.960 there's a path to

00:36:37.920 feeling better

00:36:38.520 go to daily

00:36:39.600 wire plus now and

00:36:40.560 start watching dr

00:36:41.760 jordan b peterson on

00:36:43.100 depression and

00:36:43.800 anxiety let this be

00:36:45.380 the first step towards

00:36:46.580 the brighter future

00:36:47.520 you deserve

00:36:48.400 if i had a dollar

00:36:52.780 for every time i

00:36:53.900 wondered how could

00:36:54.920 republicans be so

00:36:55.960 daft i would be a

00:36:57.780 gazillionaire you're

00:36:59.240 absolutely right

00:37:00.100 they're not doing

00:37:01.280 anything i i think

00:37:02.800 in places like

00:37:03.740 florida i have a lot

00:37:05.100 of faith in governor

00:37:05.940 ron de santis but

00:37:06.920 obviously there's only

00:37:07.700 so much he can do

00:37:08.800 our family moved from

00:37:10.640 new york to florida

00:37:11.640 about a year ago

00:37:12.980 because we saw

00:37:14.240 saner policies but

00:37:16.260 you're right and so

00:37:17.240 much of what you're

00:37:17.840 saying is right it's

00:37:18.960 not even just

00:37:19.840 political stuff like

00:37:21.480 a discussion happening

00:37:22.680 right now in america

00:37:23.740 is about the way that

00:37:25.240 we've been teaching

00:37:25.880 children to read

00:37:26.940 now i have three kids

00:37:28.480 13 10 and 7

00:37:30.080 about a year and a

00:37:31.740 half ago i realized

00:37:33.020 that my youngest kid

00:37:34.360 does not know how to

00:37:35.560 read despite everybody

00:37:37.000 around him thinking

00:37:38.280 that he does and the

00:37:40.040 thing was he had

00:37:41.500 managed because he's a

00:37:42.440 smart kid he had

00:37:43.480 managed to memorize

00:37:44.500 enough words to make

00:37:46.880 it seem like he's

00:37:47.820 he knows how to

00:37:48.360 read so i would

00:37:49.460 have these

00:37:49.960 conversations with

00:37:50.800 his teachers and

00:37:51.760 they would say oh

00:37:52.480 no you're wrong he

00:37:53.340 knows how to read he's

00:37:54.260 really smart and i'd

00:37:55.520 say i know he's really

00:37:56.460 smart he's managed to

00:37:57.540 convince you he knows

00:37:58.420 how to read and he

00:37:59.140 doesn't because the

00:38:00.440 way that we've taught

00:38:01.220 reading in america for

00:38:02.560 the last decade plus

00:38:03.880 has been memorize these

00:38:05.620 words and somehow that

00:38:07.180 worked for my whole

00:38:08.040 word reading yeah it's

00:38:09.580 not reading it's no

00:38:10.360 sounding out so my

00:38:11.940 older two managed to

00:38:13.020 still read the right

00:38:14.200 way but my younger one

00:38:15.600 took the lesson

00:38:16.460 memorized all these

00:38:17.420 words a lot of words

00:38:18.960 and went through life

00:38:20.360 pretending to read now

00:38:22.400 we're having the

00:38:22.980 conversation of like

00:38:23.940 wow that was a really

00:38:24.820 dumb thing to do for a

00:38:26.420 while in our schools but

00:38:28.140 why did it happen in the

00:38:29.080 first place why are we

00:38:30.140 throwing random i can

00:38:31.340 tell you i can tell you

00:38:32.740 why i can tell you how

00:38:35.240 that happened i looked

00:38:36.220 into that because that's

00:38:37.320 one of the preposterously

00:38:39.960 stupid theories put

00:38:41.680 forward by faculties of

00:38:43.060 education so here's how

00:38:44.900 it happened so if you

00:38:47.820 analyze imagine that you

00:38:50.160 might start by thinking

00:38:51.340 that if you wanted to

00:38:53.780 teach children how to do

00:38:55.060 something you'd look at

00:38:55.920 how experts do it and

00:38:58.500 teach them the way the

00:38:59.660 experts do it okay well

00:39:01.160 that's not a bad theory

00:39:02.180 it's not necessarily true

00:39:04.160 because experts and

00:39:05.300 beginners might use

00:39:06.260 different strategies but

00:39:07.320 as far as theories go it

00:39:08.960 could be stupider so

00:39:10.460 let's start with that okay

00:39:11.700 so now let's analyze the

00:39:13.200 behavior of expert

00:39:14.060 readers well expert

00:39:17.300 readers read words at a

00:39:20.100 glance they don't sound

00:39:21.520 them out and not only

00:39:23.500 that expert readers if

00:39:24.860 they're really expert can

00:39:25.860 probably read a whole

00:39:26.720 phrase at a glance with

00:39:28.120 one eye movement and so

00:39:30.860 and so the theory was

00:39:33.220 well experts read at the

00:39:35.500 whole word level so

00:39:38.340 perhaps we should teach

00:39:39.380 children to do that now

00:39:40.480 there's other evidence

00:39:41.400 supporting that idea so

00:39:42.980 for example if I showed

00:39:44.240 you a paragraph made up

00:39:46.300 of English words where

00:39:48.980 each word had the first

00:39:51.020 letter and the last

00:39:52.240 letter in the right place

00:39:53.580 but all the intermediary

00:39:55.020 letters were scrambled you

00:39:57.500 could still read that and

00:39:59.260 almost as fast and so by

00:40:02.780 the time you're an expert

00:40:03.800 reader you do recognize

00:40:06.200 whole words as units and

00:40:09.940 so the theory was well

00:40:11.440 why don't we just teach

00:40:12.460 children to recognize

00:40:13.720 whole words now the

00:40:16.660 problem with that is well

00:40:18.380 just because that's how

00:40:19.420 experts do it doesn't mean

00:40:20.660 that's how they learn to do

00:40:21.960 it so that's one problem

00:40:24.000 and the second problem is

00:40:25.140 that basically converts

00:40:26.380 English into a form of

00:40:27.720 Chinese now Chinese words

00:40:32.040 exactly is that each

00:40:33.280 character becomes

00:40:34.160 something like a like an

00:40:35.940 image instead of a

00:40:37.360 sequence of letters the

00:40:38.420 whole point of the bloody

00:40:39.320 alphabet is to have an

00:40:40.300 alphabetic language and the

00:40:42.120 whole point of that is to

00:40:43.180 allow for phonetic learning

00:40:44.580 to break down the sounds

00:40:45.840 into their units to allow

00:40:47.680 children to piece together

00:40:48.820 the units and then to to

00:40:51.080 memorize the words now so

00:40:52.300 what happens when you learn

00:40:53.520 a phonetic when you learn

00:40:55.000 phonetically is that you

00:40:56.000 first of all master the 40

00:40:57.900 sounds or so that are

00:40:59.020 associated with the

00:40:59.880 alphabet then you learn how

00:41:01.920 to chunk them into say

00:41:03.840 two-letter or three-letter

00:41:05.020 combinations then you

00:41:06.720 learn how to put them

00:41:07.460 together in words and as

00:41:08.720 you do that you build up

00:41:10.020 the neural circuitry that

00:41:11.460 enables you to identify

00:41:12.680 the words at a glance but

00:41:14.280 you do it from the bottom

00:41:15.180 up well the idiot

00:41:16.600 researchers it just seems

00:41:17.800 like we're teaching kids

00:41:19.100 you know using a

00:41:20.760 philosophy that we haven't

00:41:21.920 thought through I don't

00:41:23.100 know very much about

00:41:24.100 education I'm not

00:41:25.000 haven't thought it through

00:41:25.700 at all but I know that

00:41:26.860 that was crazy

00:41:29.020 it was it was research

00:41:31.080 that was shoddy in the

00:41:32.960 utter extreme and this

00:41:34.380 isn't new the whole word

00:41:36.400 reading dispute goes back

00:41:38.800 at least 40 years and

00:41:40.580 it's absolutely 100%

00:41:43.080 self-evident in the

00:41:44.180 literature that if you

00:41:45.100 take a school system this

00:41:46.400 happened in California

00:41:47.260 that used a phonetic

00:41:49.760 approach to reading and

00:41:51.700 you transform that into a

00:41:53.800 school system that uses a

00:41:55.140 whole word approach to

00:41:56.220 reading that you decimate

00:41:58.380 the ability of the

00:41:59.300 education system to teach

00:42:00.600 children how to read and

00:42:02.080 we've known that for 40

00:42:03.600 years and the faculties of

00:42:05.760 education are still debating

00:42:07.260 whether or not this is true

00:42:08.500 and that's only one of the

00:42:10.040 many unbelievably foolish

00:42:11.760 things they managed to do and

00:42:13.200 here's some more they're the

00:42:15.140 originators of the self-esteem

00:42:16.620 movement and because of their

00:42:19.000 cockeyed version of what

00:42:20.460 constituted self-esteem they

00:42:21.980 ended up teaching children to be

00:42:23.320 narcissistic instead of to be

00:42:24.940 confident and narcissists pretend

00:42:27.640 to be confident that's how

00:42:29.780 they and mimic it and when you

00:42:31.760 do explicit self-esteem training

00:42:33.500 you you train narcissism not

00:42:35.400 confidence we have social

00:42:37.180 emotional learning we have

00:42:38.920 learning styles we have all

00:42:40.680 these idiot educational fads that

00:42:43.580 and there's not an iota of good

00:42:45.620 research data suggesting that they

00:42:47.400 do anything but harm and that's

00:42:49.280 all that can all be put at the

00:42:51.580 foot of the faculties of

00:42:52.620 education but they're entirely

00:42:54.140 enabled by idiot republicans for

00:42:56.220 example who aren't smart enough

00:42:57.500 to notice that they're losing the

00:42:58.820 cultural war because they've

00:43:00.000 handed over the entire

00:43:00.960 educational enterprise to social

00:43:03.120 justice warriors and it doesn't

00:43:05.240 take that much thinking to figure

00:43:06.700 that out yeah i mean one of the

00:43:08.580 other discoveries that we made in

00:43:10.720 researching stolen youth and

00:43:12.360 again this is something that i

00:43:13.580 would have thought was a

00:43:14.400 conspiracy theory before we

00:43:15.780 started writing this book but in

00:43:17.560 teachers colleges they use

00:43:19.100 marxist books to teach the

00:43:21.720 teachers so the teachers

00:43:23.260 themselves get indoctrinated and

00:43:25.340 then they spread out throughout

00:43:26.300 the country and they

00:43:27.540 indoctrinate the kids they don't

00:43:28.920 even know what's happening they

00:43:30.720 don't know that they've learned

00:43:31.780 critical theory and that they're

00:43:33.280 passing it along to children

00:43:34.620 they they think that they've

00:43:36.360 learned something good um so i

00:43:38.340 think a lot of this like i don't

00:43:39.440 know why republicans don't spend

00:43:40.900 all their time talking about it i

00:43:42.400 think the reason i would have

00:43:43.480 thought it was a conspiracy theory

00:43:45.140 is because how can it be in

00:43:47.460 america that the teachers

00:43:49.340 colleges are using marxist books

00:43:51.700 and they're coming up with

00:43:52.760 content concepts like two plus

00:43:54.540 two is not always four and it's

00:43:56.560 not front page news every day it's

00:43:58.320 not the main thing that all of our

00:43:59.900 politicians talk about all the

00:44:02.060 time how could that be and that's

00:44:04.540 really again part of the reason

00:44:06.220 that we needed this book to be

00:44:07.880 published is because we felt like

00:44:09.960 for a long time you could say i

00:44:12.220 didn't know i don't know these

00:44:13.740 politicians can say i don't know

00:44:15.380 well again read our book and

00:44:17.540 there's no way to say i didn't

00:44:19.800 know yeah well you know i see this

00:44:21.900 happening in canada there's a

00:44:23.340 conservative government in ontario

00:44:24.980 and not and there's a conservative

00:44:27.500 minister of education in ontario and

00:44:29.660 nonetheless the school system there is

00:44:31.440 as woke as hell and what happens

00:44:33.020 consistently is that these bloody

00:44:35.320 marxist doctrines are put forward

00:44:37.180 under the rubric of anti-racism let's

00:44:39.700 say and idiot politicians who don't do

00:44:42.800 their homework or who are afraid of

00:44:44.840 being pilloried see the word

00:44:47.360 anti-racist and they think because

00:44:49.320 the leftists are very sneaky in this

00:44:51.240 regard they think oh well if it's

00:44:52.580 anti-racist we have to be for it and

00:44:55.180 they don't look at all to see what is

00:44:57.400 being transmitted what ideas are being

00:44:59.360 transmitted in the guise of this so

00:45:01.080 called anti-racism and they are a

00:45:03.760 strange hybrid of post-modernism you

00:45:06.540 know and the post-modernists dispute the

00:45:09.180 existence of any uniting narratives

00:45:11.340 whatsoever and the marxists well i

00:45:14.760 suppose they trump that by claiming

00:45:16.380 that there's nothing else but power

00:45:18.020 and the conservatives are so damn

00:45:20.100 blind that this goes up on under their

00:45:22.040 noses constantly and they often

00:45:23.780 facilitate its movement forward and

00:45:26.420 it's because they're they're either

00:45:27.700 ignorant that's part of the problem or

00:45:29.500 they're afraid on the moral front and

00:45:31.140 neither of those are excusable

00:45:32.880 especially when hypothetically they're

00:45:34.620 concerned about losing the cultural war

00:45:36.620 which they are definitely losing well

00:45:39.520 look at the abuse and pushback that

00:45:41.800 governor de santis gets even from other

00:45:44.080 republicans you know people that are in

00:45:46.460 the public eye the the chris christie's

00:45:48.580 of the world and such they say things

00:45:50.460 like he de santis sparks cultural wars

00:45:53.920 well cultural wars are really important

00:45:55.740 because a war for the culture matters

00:45:58.240 culture matters so yes we should be

00:46:00.480 fighting these wars i think so much of

00:46:03.060 what we talk about is dismissed by the

00:46:06.600 left and we let them dismiss it we let

00:46:09.100 them say oh this doesn't matter but it

00:46:11.320 does matter and we should be talking

00:46:12.720 about it all the time i think that the

00:46:14.340 schools and the fight for our schools

00:46:17.120 is so important so another thing the

00:46:19.640 republicans are doing right now look i

00:46:21.900 love the idea of school choice which is

00:46:24.360 you know supplying vouchers to parents

00:46:26.660 so that they could pull their kids out of

00:46:28.260 failing public schools and go to

00:46:29.800 parochial schools or private schools but

00:46:32.080 that's nowhere near enough most people

00:46:34.220 still send their kids to the local public

00:46:36.260 school so the idea that republicans have

00:46:38.660 like oh i passed a school voucher bill

00:46:40.780 i'm done is ridiculous we have to fight

00:46:44.040 for the schools we have to fight for the

00:46:45.700 curriculums we have to fight for the

00:46:47.420 kids who go to those schools we can't

00:46:49.560 just give up on them and say like oh we'll

00:46:51.240 hand out vouchers that's just simply not

00:46:53.180 enough well if if all your voucher

00:46:55.780 choice is between one woke school or

00:46:57.920 another it's not helpful in the least and

00:46:59.840 well that's part of the reason too why i

00:47:01.700 think it's necessary to go to the source

00:47:03.540 of the problem and the faculties of

00:47:05.520 education which i think should just be

00:47:07.420 abolished they're certainly their

00:47:09.420 monopoly on teacher certification should

00:47:11.400 be revoked like tomorrow and permanently

00:47:13.860 because there's no excuse for it

00:47:15.560 whatsoever the other thing that's so

00:47:17.280 bloody idiotic about this that it's

00:47:19.000 almost a kind of miracle of stupidity is

00:47:21.200 that if you look at the teachers unions

00:47:23.720 for example and you look at where they

00:47:26.500 donate all of their monetary support i

00:47:30.080 think it's 99 percent democrat so what

00:47:34.380 you have is this strange spectacle where

00:47:36.420 not only do the republicans hand over

00:47:39.860 children and the future to the woke mob

00:47:44.240 via the vehicle of the faculties of

00:47:46.500 education but they actually facilitate

00:47:50.000 the development of these immense

00:47:51.720 organizations the teachers unions and so

00:47:54.080 forth that do nothing but fundraise for

00:47:57.360 their for their opponents 100 percent of

00:48:00.720 the time i mean it's no bloody wonder

00:48:03.380 that the conservatives are being rolled

00:48:05.020 over you know and and it's it's not even

00:48:07.580 that the leftists are what would you say

00:48:11.500 pushing the conservatives or circumventing

00:48:15.200 the conservatives the conservatives are

00:48:17.100 so damn blind that they help the leftists do

00:48:20.000 this no by and i see this very very clearly in

00:48:23.780 canada for example right i think i saw this

00:48:26.220 very clearly during the pandemic where

00:48:28.700 places like maryland that had a republican

00:48:31.140 governor nevertheless had schools closed

00:48:34.200 one of the longest in the country because

00:48:36.660 the republican governor was so cowered by the

00:48:39.360 teachers unions he didn't want to be

00:48:40.980 criticized as wanting teachers to die which

00:48:43.340 is again you know what ron de santis was

00:48:45.100 getting what the governor of texas was

00:48:46.760 getting he didn't want to have parade of

00:48:49.020 caskets outside of his office like what's

00:48:51.120 happening in places that were trying to open

00:48:52.900 schools and so you have these weak republicans

00:48:56.380 who don't stand up to their political enemies

00:48:59.540 like nobody's even saying you know um fight

00:49:03.660 the people on your own side which is a lot

00:49:05.400 of times necessary at least fight the people

00:49:07.640 that hate you and it's such an easy kind of

00:49:10.080 decision to make but even they can't even do

00:49:12.340 that 100 of the time i mean it's no bloody

00:49:17.740 wonder that the conservatives are being

00:49:19.340 rolled over you know and and it's it's not even

00:49:22.240 that the leftists are what would you say pushing

00:49:26.980 the conservatives or circumventing the

00:49:30.020 conservatives the conservatives are so damn

00:49:32.320 blind that they help the leftists do this

00:49:35.100 no by and i see this very very clearly in canada for

00:49:39.020 example right i think i saw this very clearly during

00:49:41.880 the pandemic where places like maryland that had a

00:49:45.460 republican governor nevertheless had schools closed

00:49:48.860 one of the longest in the country because the

00:49:51.760 republican governor was so coward by the teachers

00:49:54.280 unions he didn't want to be criticized as wanting

00:49:56.740 teachers to die which is again you know what ron

00:49:59.140 de santis was getting what the governor of texas was

00:50:01.420 getting he didn't want to have parade of caskets

00:50:04.220 outside of his office like what's happening in places

00:50:06.640 that were trying to open schools and so you have these weak

00:50:10.220 republicans who don't stand up to their political enemies

00:50:14.220 like nobody's even saying you know um fight the people on

00:50:18.940 your own side which is a lot of times necessary at least

00:50:21.680 fight the people that hate you and such an easy kind of

00:50:24.740 decision to make but even they can't even do that

00:50:27.420 so there's another issue here that's interesting too so

00:50:30.980 i've been playing with this notion which i think is

00:50:34.000 true in a very deep level which is that

00:50:39.440 any civic responsibility that you abdicate

00:50:43.840 will be taken up by tyrants and used against you

00:50:47.620 and so what we see in canada and i uh the the local school boards have a

00:50:53.560 fair bit of sway over how the schools conduct themselves

00:50:58.040 and many of the positions on the school boards are elected

00:51:02.240 and it's those are low level positions and they're not well paid and they

00:51:07.000 require a fair bit of work and so

00:51:08.760 we could say let's say they don't necessarily attract the best candidates

00:51:14.220 or we could even say they often attract people who

00:51:17.880 for whom that avenue to some power is the only avenue they have

00:51:24.280 and who have the same kind of pathology that

00:51:27.380 idiot radicals in universities who take over the students unions have because

00:51:32.540 they're the same sort of people and resentful and power mad and devious

00:51:38.260 and neurotic and narcissistic and so they end up on the school boards

00:51:43.820 but and we could say well that's a terrible thing that the school boards have

00:51:49.000 been taken over by the woke radicals but by the same token the same people

00:51:54.400 so let's say the centrist conservative and liberal types

00:51:58.480 they're not putting their names forward to occupy these

00:52:04.820 low-level political positions it's the same within political parties

00:52:09.040 you know the the woke mob can't take over the political landscape unless

00:52:15.300 normal sane people abdicate their responsibility

00:52:19.580 and that certainly happens so in your book for example

00:52:23.780 you talk about what parents can and should do and one of the things

00:52:30.280 they can and should do is get involved with their child's education in some

00:52:34.300 in some manner well so what sort of things do you see as low-hanging fruit

00:52:38.920 on the parental front well in the u.s in the last three years

00:52:43.720 that what you're describing has been changing

00:52:46.040 for a long time it was only people on the left running for school boards

00:52:52.500 and so the majority of the school boards throughout the country were run by committed leftists

00:52:58.960 and what happened in the last three years and covid sparked so much of this

00:53:03.480 it was covid plus the george floyd riots

00:53:05.780 those two things combined to open a lot of eyes

00:53:09.700 and so what parents saw was wow my school board does not represent my values at all

00:53:15.540 and isn't fighting for my kids at all

00:53:17.660 isn't trying to get my schools open

00:53:19.260 isn't trying to get the masks off the kids while 80 year olds were you know living freely

00:53:24.480 the curriculum's ridiculous

00:53:27.640 they saw it over their kid's shoulder while the kids were studying from home

00:53:31.500 they suddenly realized that math is racist

00:53:33.940 and reading isn't taught correctly at all

00:53:37.720 and so much is filled in with this woke nonsense

00:53:41.100 a lot of critical race theory gender theory at a very young age

00:53:45.500 so there has been a parental revolution across the u.s. where more moderate or right-of-center parents have been running for school board

00:53:55.900 but again the left has like a 20-year head start on this

00:53:59.480 it's not going to be an overnight thing

00:54:01.520 and it'd be great if republican politicians

00:54:04.140 instead of talking about the presidential election

00:54:06.940 would talk about run for your school board

00:54:09.820 push people to do it

00:54:11.300 say this is how we fight back

00:54:14.060 this is how we win the culture

00:54:15.580 and if you don't step up and do it

00:54:18.040 the left will

00:54:19.060 and so many leftists who run for school boards

00:54:21.700 don't even have kids

00:54:23.260 they're just there to influence the culture

00:54:25.620 and the right doesn't seem to have the same verb to do the same

00:54:29.460 now you're

00:54:30.740 you have an extensive background as a journalist

00:54:34.040 you've worked for the New York Post

00:54:36.040 for Fox

00:54:36.800 and so forth

00:54:38.180 and yet you wrote this book

00:54:40.620 what was your pathway into this issue

00:54:45.720 and why did it start to

00:54:47.980 well obsess you sufficiently so that

00:54:50.720 you know you wrote a book

00:54:52.260 which is non-trivial

00:54:53.640 takes a non-trivial devotion

00:54:56.700 and

00:54:57.120 to manage on the time and resource front

00:55:01.240 what pulled you into this?

00:55:03.400 it really was the COVID era

00:55:05.040 we were living in Brooklyn

00:55:06.640 we were lifelong New Yorkers

00:55:08.920 my husband and I both grew up in New York

00:55:11.000 we were going to raise our children in New York

00:55:13.340 we had just finished our dream home

00:55:15.220 moved in March 2020

00:55:16.760 and

00:55:18.200 what I saw around me

00:55:20.640 shook me so hard

00:55:22.700 that I needed to

00:55:24.200 talk about it

00:55:25.240 and so I would talk about it all the time

00:55:26.660 I would say before 2020

00:55:28.480 I wrote about all kinds of things

00:55:30.400 I wrote about sex

00:55:31.840 I wrote about marriage

00:55:32.880 I wrote about immigration

00:55:34.000 but 2020 hits

00:55:35.840 and I see kids as being uniquely targeted

00:55:38.840 so my co-author Bethany Mandel and I

00:55:41.840 would talk a lot about

00:55:43.120 what was going on with children in the country

00:55:45.240 I have three kids

00:55:46.800 they were all in public school in New York City

00:55:48.640 she has six kids now

00:55:51.320 all homeschooled

00:55:53.140 so very different paths she and I take

00:55:55.360 but what I saw happening in New York

00:55:58.180 and across the country

00:55:59.440 where kids were so disregarded

00:56:01.460 the COVID pandemic really just exposed

00:56:04.500 how kids were put last

00:56:05.780 in New York for example

00:56:06.960 when the reopening plans were announced

00:56:09.880 by Governor Cuomo

00:56:11.160 kids were like

00:56:12.800 it was like concerts

00:56:13.840 Broadway shows

00:56:15.020 schools

00:56:15.800 it was like the last thing that he thought of

00:56:18.300 like oh right

00:56:19.360 kids need to go back to schools

00:56:20.760 and things like

00:56:22.180 I lived in a super left neighborhood

00:56:24.240 and my neighbors all marched for equity

00:56:28.140 and they all put the BLM signs

00:56:30.440 and the defund police signs in their window

00:56:32.580 and then when schools didn't open

00:56:35.960 they sent their kids to private schools

00:56:38.260 which obviously were open

00:56:40.080 because that's safe

00:56:41.400 or they formed pods for their own kids

00:56:44.400 or they moved to their beach house

00:56:46.260 and sent their kids to school there

00:56:48.240 and they didn't say a word

00:56:49.940 for any of the kids around the city

00:56:51.980 who didn't have the same opportunities

00:56:53.980 as their children

00:56:54.880 I grew up poor in Brooklyn

00:56:57.280 I was an immigrant

00:56:58.420 I lived in an immigrant enclave

00:57:01.340 where things were tough

00:57:03.500 and so the people that I grew up with

00:57:05.540 were not enjoying the pandemic

00:57:07.860 and baking banana bread

00:57:09.440 and ordering Uber Eats

00:57:11.200 they were struggling

00:57:12.180 and I saw that nobody cared about them

00:57:14.740 and particularly nobody cared about their children

00:57:17.120 so we have a COVID chapter in the book

00:57:19.780 which I don't, you know

00:57:20.940 I admit it doesn't exactly fit

00:57:23.060 because a lot of the book is about fighting

00:57:25.080 and moving forward

00:57:26.080 and what you need to do

00:57:27.780 to get your kids out of this crazy system

00:57:29.740 but the COVID chapter was so important

00:57:32.080 because I think that that's where

00:57:33.940 a lot of the eye-opening began

00:57:35.360 for me and for so many other parents

00:57:37.520 where I realized that something really bad

00:57:40.760 was happening to the children

00:57:41.920 maybe it had been happening for a while

00:57:43.840 but that was the moment

00:57:45.000 where I realized we had to do something

00:57:46.960 Yeah, well one of the things that struck me

00:57:50.220 I live in a pretty leftist neighborhood too

00:57:54.020 in Toronto

00:57:54.480 in fact, I think I'm probably more unpopular

00:57:56.600 in my own neighborhood

00:57:57.660 than I am anywhere else in the world

00:57:59.440 which is rather annoying

00:58:00.680 consequence of everything

00:58:03.260 that's transpired around me

00:58:04.620 in the last six years

00:58:05.500 but one of the things I was quite struck by

00:58:08.180 in Toronto in particular

00:58:09.640 was the two things

00:58:12.360 one was the willingness of the left

00:58:14.200 to sacrifice the poor

00:58:15.500 to their purity concerns

00:58:16.760 that was really quite interesting

00:58:18.560 and also to align themselves

00:58:20.380 with the pharmaceutical companies

00:58:22.040 because that was kind of a miraculous reversal

00:58:24.820 that was virtually incomprehensible

00:58:26.580 I mean, for decades

00:58:28.080 the only enemy the left had

00:58:30.820 that was as significant

00:58:32.320 let's say as big energy companies

00:58:34.240 was big pharma

00:58:35.200 and for the left to align themselves

00:58:37.520 with the pharmaceutical companies

00:58:38.960 struck me as a

00:58:39.940 what would you say

00:58:41.300 a philosophical reversal

00:58:44.100 of miraculous proportions

00:58:46.160 I still haven't wrapped my head

00:58:47.760 around that entirely

00:58:48.680 and I was also shocked

00:58:50.500 and I would really say shocked

00:58:52.300 by the absolute pleasure

00:58:54.120 that people seem to take

00:58:56.220 in the side effect

00:58:59.060 of the COVID lockdowns

00:59:00.480 which was the opportunity

00:59:01.620 to spy and inform on your neighbors

00:59:04.040 and my sense was that in Toronto

00:59:06.360 first of all

00:59:07.060 70% of people

00:59:08.280 would have worn those goddamn masks

00:59:10.240 happily for the rest of their lives

00:59:12.000 and half of that group

00:59:14.480 would have done it happily

00:59:15.720 merely because it gave them

00:59:17.240 an opportunity

00:59:17.860 to spy on and inform

00:59:20.020 on their neighbors

00:59:20.880 and you know

00:59:21.940 I knew that in places

00:59:23.040 like East Germany

00:59:23.900 under the Soviets

00:59:24.820 that one third of citizens

00:59:27.080 were government informers

00:59:28.720 which is a pretty damn dismal statistic

00:59:31.140 but I

00:59:32.580 and I knew that that proclivity

00:59:35.120 was embedded deep in the heart

00:59:37.500 of the human soul

00:59:39.260 let's say

00:59:39.880 if a soul can have a heart

00:59:41.680 you get my point

00:59:42.560 but it was still a shock to me

00:59:44.300 to see how rapidly

00:59:45.220 that desire

00:59:47.160 made itself manifest

00:59:48.280 when the

00:59:49.000 when the social

00:59:50.320 and political conditions

00:59:51.620 made it

00:59:52.140 made it possible

00:59:53.380 and morally necessary

00:59:55.420 and so

00:59:56.800 yeah

00:59:57.200 I was

00:59:57.800 and it was also very interesting

00:59:59.360 please go ahead

01:00:01.100 no I was gonna say

01:00:01.980 I think I was naive

01:00:03.040 I did not think

01:00:04.440 that Americans

01:00:05.360 or Canadians

01:00:06.220 or free people

01:00:07.680 in general

01:00:08.400 had that inside them

01:00:10.160 I knew that

01:00:11.660 people who had been

01:00:12.800 under totalitarian rule

01:00:14.480 who didn't know anything else

01:00:16.360 yes

01:00:17.220 they could be made

01:00:18.220 to inform on their neighbors

01:00:19.440 but free people

01:00:21.360 who didn't have anything to lose

01:00:23.520 were telling on people

01:00:25.220 for having too many friends

01:00:26.620 in their backyard

01:00:27.320 and that was happening

01:00:28.460 frequently in my neighborhood

01:00:30.460 another interesting

01:00:32.660 moment was

01:00:34.580 so I lived in

01:00:35.520 this neighborhood

01:00:36.380 Park Slope in Brooklyn

01:00:37.360 and there was like a board

01:00:38.380 on Facebook

01:00:38.980 and

01:00:40.200 a woman wrote in

01:00:42.000 and she said

01:00:42.780 I'm Asian

01:00:43.720 I was bicycling

01:00:45.340 without my mask

01:00:46.660 and an older white couple

01:00:48.280 yelled racial epithets

01:00:50.260 at me

01:00:50.700 this is at the height

01:00:51.720 of the pandemic

01:00:52.300 you know

01:00:52.720 spring 2020

01:00:53.580 and

01:00:54.760 in normal times

01:00:56.460 obviously everybody

01:00:57.640 would be supportive

01:00:58.460 of her

01:00:59.020 and oh how dare

01:01:00.060 this white couple

01:01:00.900 say racist things to you

01:01:02.540 but the majority

01:01:03.580 of the comments

01:01:04.340 were like well

01:01:05.060 you should have been

01:01:05.660 wearing your mask

01:01:06.580 and that's

01:01:07.860 where they got to

01:01:09.140 where they threw away

01:01:10.300 their own previous ideas

01:01:12.160 in order for this

01:01:13.200 new mask god

01:01:14.720 and

01:01:15.860 it was really wild

01:01:17.040 to watch that

01:01:17.780 I don't

01:01:18.600 I didn't expect that

01:01:19.700 look I'm a lifelong

01:01:21.080 conservative

01:01:21.680 my husband is a conservative

01:01:23.520 and

01:01:24.160 we were going to live

01:01:25.280 in this liberal area

01:01:26.280 and that would have been fine

01:01:27.880 until the pandemic hit

01:01:29.420 and we saw

01:01:30.300 what was really going on

01:01:31.820 we couldn't unsee it

01:01:32.920 so Carol

01:01:33.880 you were

01:01:34.420 locked down

01:01:35.780 in

01:01:36.100 in New York

01:01:37.920 with your progressive

01:01:39.840 neighbors

01:01:40.260 and you started

01:01:41.420 to become aware

01:01:42.180 that children

01:01:43.440 were being

01:01:44.040 placed pretty damn

01:01:45.600 low on the hierarchy

01:01:46.800 of importance

01:01:47.500 I mean

01:01:47.820 we certainly saw that

01:01:49.240 in two ways

01:01:50.040 right

01:01:50.300 we saw that

01:01:51.020 with the

01:01:51.560 100%

01:01:53.400 insane insistence

01:01:54.640 that children

01:01:55.180 should wear masks

01:01:56.300 which was

01:01:57.360 appalling

01:01:59.460 given the

01:02:00.820 absolute

01:02:01.720 paucity of evidence

01:02:03.120 that children

01:02:03.700 were at any risk

01:02:04.680 whatsoever

01:02:05.200 for mortality

01:02:05.940 in relationship

01:02:06.660 to COVID

01:02:07.200 and

01:02:08.480 the notion

01:02:09.560 that the children

01:02:10.340 were presenting

01:02:11.140 a danger

01:02:11.780 therefore

01:02:12.200 to the teachers

01:02:12.940 I mean

01:02:13.380 the first thing

01:02:13.940 I would say

01:02:14.420 is well

01:02:14.760 there's an

01:02:15.240 occupational hazard

01:02:16.180 for you

01:02:16.660 and you can

01:02:17.120 walk along

01:02:17.680 with it

01:02:18.020 the same way

01:02:18.540 the bloody nurses

01:02:19.300 do

01:02:19.640 and the doctors

01:02:20.360 but

01:02:21.380 having said that

01:02:23.880 I would also say

01:02:24.640 that the evidence

01:02:25.380 that teachers

01:02:26.320 were at particular

01:02:27.200 risk

01:02:27.640 because of the

01:02:28.380 you know

01:02:29.440 the

01:02:29.700 infectious nature

01:02:32.300 of the children

01:02:32.840 was also lacking

01:02:33.860 but it didn't make

01:02:34.580 any difference

01:02:35.040 we put the damn

01:02:35.820 masks on the kids

01:02:36.800 and wreaked

01:02:38.660 havoc

01:02:39.200 on their

01:02:40.060 psycholinguistic

01:02:41.680 and emotional

01:02:42.320 development

01:02:42.860 for two years

01:02:43.720 and then we

01:02:44.660 locked them at home

01:02:45.360 where they didn't

01:02:45.900 learn a god damn

01:02:46.680 thing

01:02:47.040 and the poor

01:02:49.000 kids in particular

01:02:49.840 are going to pay

01:02:50.440 for that

01:02:50.880 perhaps for the rest

01:02:52.000 of their life

01:02:52.520 and we're going to

01:02:53.000 pay a walloping

01:02:53.860 economic price

01:02:54.820 as well

01:02:55.760 because we

01:02:57.040 failed to educate

01:02:57.880 a very large

01:02:58.520 number of people

01:02:59.240 and so they

01:02:59.820 won't be as

01:03:00.420 productive

01:03:00.820 as they might

01:03:01.720 have otherwise

01:03:02.160 been

01:03:02.540 so that's

01:03:03.280 quite the

01:03:03.640 bloody

01:03:03.840 catastrophe

01:03:04.440 but then

01:03:05.600 we also

01:03:09.360 you also

01:03:10.180 dug further

01:03:10.900 into that

01:03:11.440 and realized

01:03:12.000 that children's

01:03:12.840 interests

01:03:13.220 weren't being

01:03:13.840 served on a

01:03:14.540 broader front

01:03:15.360 and that's

01:03:16.320 how you moved

01:03:17.100 more into

01:03:18.020 the

01:03:18.340 let's say

01:03:20.320 the gender

01:03:21.340 dispute

01:03:22.180 the culture

01:03:22.820 war

01:03:23.300 domain

01:03:24.160 that started

01:03:24.860 to occupy

01:03:25.400 your attention

01:03:26.440 before that

01:03:27.080 how concerned

01:03:27.680 had you been

01:03:28.420 with the

01:03:30.040 broader issues

01:03:30.880 of the culture

01:03:31.460 war

01:03:31.740 somewhat

01:03:32.120 concerned

01:03:32.700 but nowhere

01:03:33.980 near

01:03:34.480 what ended

01:03:35.600 up happening

01:03:36.120 so I would

01:03:36.940 say that

01:03:37.520 I should have

01:03:38.500 begun

01:03:38.900 speaking up

01:03:40.160 earlier

01:03:40.580 when my

01:03:42.100 middle son

01:03:43.000 was in

01:03:44.180 first grade

01:03:44.820 he switched

01:03:45.760 schools

01:03:46.160 after the

01:03:46.700 school year

01:03:47.100 had begun

01:03:47.620 and his

01:03:48.180 new school

01:03:48.760 had a climate

01:03:49.460 march

01:03:49.960 in their

01:03:50.520 courtyard

01:03:51.060 and I

01:03:52.620 didn't want

01:03:53.060 him to be

01:03:53.480 the weird

01:03:53.940 kid who

01:03:54.520 just got

01:03:54.960 to the

01:03:55.260 school

01:03:55.640 and didn't

01:03:56.140 participate

01:03:56.620 and sat

01:03:57.140 it out

01:03:57.540 so I

01:03:58.240 let him

01:03:58.560 march around

01:03:59.240 when he

01:03:59.800 was seven

01:04:00.160 years old

01:04:00.660 with his

01:04:01.140 earth dies

01:04:01.780 we die

01:04:02.320 sign

01:04:02.840 and obviously

01:04:04.480 in retrospect

01:04:05.040 I would

01:04:05.700 never allow

01:04:06.780 that ever

01:04:07.340 again

01:04:07.780 but that's

01:04:08.580 the kind

01:04:08.900 of thing

01:04:09.240 that I

01:04:09.540 think parents

01:04:10.200 don't even

01:04:10.780 really see

01:04:11.700 until it's

01:04:12.420 too late

01:04:12.900 that they're

01:04:13.440 using your

01:04:13.960 children as

01:04:14.600 little activists

01:04:15.380 and this

01:04:16.880 is happening

01:04:17.300 so much

01:04:17.900 in Brooklyn

01:04:18.340 kids marched

01:04:19.240 obviously against

01:04:20.340 climate change

01:04:21.180 they marched

01:04:21.920 for gun

01:04:22.300 control

01:04:22.760 they marched

01:04:23.580 vaguely

01:04:24.020 against hate

01:04:24.740 after the

01:04:25.320 2016 election

01:04:27.220 and so

01:04:28.280 they have

01:04:29.120 this idea

01:04:30.240 that they

01:04:30.720 could turn

01:04:31.120 the kids

01:04:31.520 into child

01:04:32.120 soldiers

01:04:32.580 and then

01:04:33.520 their ideas

01:04:34.120 will be

01:04:34.440 unassailable

01:04:35.020 how are you

01:04:35.920 going to argue

01:04:36.440 about climate

01:04:37.040 change with a

01:04:37.700 first grader

01:04:38.260 you're not

01:04:38.780 and how are

01:04:39.440 you going to

01:04:39.700 argue about

01:04:40.140 gun control

01:04:41.220 with a

01:04:41.540 teenager

01:04:41.940 I think a

01:04:42.800 lot of

01:04:43.040 politicians

01:04:43.480 tried to

01:04:44.020 do that

01:04:44.480 after the

01:04:45.360 storm

01:04:45.900 and douglas

01:04:46.400 shooting in

01:04:46.980 florida

01:04:47.340 a few years

01:04:47.860 ago

01:04:48.120 and they

01:04:48.780 ended up

01:04:49.100 looking ridiculous

01:04:49.800 on tv

01:04:50.400 because you

01:04:50.960 can't argue

01:04:51.540 with kids

01:04:52.120 it just

01:04:52.520 doesn't work

01:04:53.040 out that

01:04:53.600 way

01:04:53.880 and so

01:04:54.960 that's why

01:04:55.400 the left

01:04:55.740 is using

01:04:56.160 them

01:04:56.540 greta

01:04:57.060 thunberg

01:04:57.540 it's not

01:04:58.040 an accident

01:04:58.560 it actually

01:04:59.160 well there's

01:04:59.740 there's another

01:05:00.540 there's another

01:05:01.600 reason too

01:05:02.420 i think which

01:05:03.080 is even

01:05:03.900 more perverse

01:05:04.980 if possible

01:05:05.900 i mean it's

01:05:07.140 pretty damn

01:05:07.620 perverse to

01:05:08.280 turn children

01:05:09.080 into activists

01:05:09.800 and it's

01:05:10.460 but it's more

01:05:11.360 perverse to do

01:05:12.260 this and this

01:05:12.980 is what's been

01:05:13.600 happening particularly

01:05:14.580 with young

01:05:15.240 men and i've

01:05:16.380 seen thousands

01:05:17.020 of examples

01:05:17.760 of this in

01:05:18.500 fact i had a

01:05:19.480 friend who

01:05:20.040 eventually committed

01:05:20.900 suicide he was

01:05:22.320 an early victim of

01:05:23.360 exactly this sort

01:05:24.300 of thinking i would

01:05:25.100 say he committed

01:05:26.120 suicide about it's

01:05:27.280 got to be 15

01:05:28.020 years ago after

01:05:28.960 living a pretty

01:05:29.860 damn dismal life

01:05:31.020 and he was

01:05:32.080 racked with

01:05:33.080 existential guilt

01:05:34.680 as a consequence

01:05:35.520 of his

01:05:36.200 intolerable

01:05:37.000 masculinity and

01:05:38.540 so that didn't

01:05:39.540 work out very

01:05:40.220 well for him as a

01:05:41.240 let's call it a

01:05:42.200 life plan and

01:05:43.700 so here's what i

01:05:45.140 see happening in

01:05:45.960 the schools with

01:05:47.300 young men in

01:05:48.140 particular and i

01:05:48.780 think it's worth

01:05:49.280 concentrating on them

01:05:50.240 because boys are

01:05:51.440 not doing well in

01:05:52.340 school teenage boys

01:05:54.640 are not doing well

01:05:55.460 in junior high

01:05:56.320 men are not going to

01:05:59.580 university and if

01:06:00.400 they do they don't

01:06:01.120 graduate an increasing

01:06:02.280 number of men aren't

01:06:03.260 picking up let's say

01:06:04.560 gainful employment or

01:06:06.020 mature relationships

01:06:07.340 when they head

01:06:07.860 adulthood and more

01:06:09.220 and more men are

01:06:09.860 bailing entirely out

01:06:10.880 of the entire

01:06:11.620 uh bailing out of

01:06:13.700 the entire sexual

01:06:14.760 dynamic process as

01:06:16.160 well not only not

01:06:17.560 having relationships

01:06:18.380 with women but not

01:06:19.340 having sex at all not

01:06:20.700 even with themselves

01:06:21.720 and that's becoming

01:06:22.820 more and more

01:06:23.300 widespread it's it's

01:06:24.940 part of the broad

01:06:25.840 scale demoralization

01:06:27.520 of men and boys

01:06:30.180 and so how does that

01:06:31.420 start well it starts

01:06:33.440 in school and the

01:06:34.320 reason it starts in

01:06:35.180 school is because the

01:06:36.240 more boisterous boys

01:06:37.480 so more extroverted

01:06:38.780 and and less

01:06:39.900 agreeable so

01:06:41.160 actually more hard

01:06:42.800 to discipline and

01:06:44.160 control they don't

01:06:45.460 want to sit still for

01:06:46.400 six hours a day and

01:06:47.280 shut up and not say

01:06:48.120 anything they want to

01:06:48.840 run around and play

01:06:49.820 and they want to do

01:06:50.520 it competitively and

01:06:51.840 that is like verboten

01:06:53.080 in school if you're

01:06:54.800 the sort of boy who

01:06:55.580 wants that you're

01:06:56.440 nothing but trouble

01:06:57.220 and so right at the

01:06:59.660 beginning the boys

01:07:00.360 are taught that their

01:07:01.240 deepest intrinsic desire

01:07:04.120 for let's say active

01:07:05.180 exploration and

01:07:06.040 engagement certain

01:07:06.920 degree of competitive

01:07:07.740 dominance that's like

01:07:09.380 that's bad that's

01:07:10.980 morally bad and so

01:07:12.560 that's brutal especially

01:07:14.180 when it's medicated out

01:07:15.680 of them which is

01:07:16.280 exactly what happens on

01:07:17.360 the attention deficit

01:07:18.360 disorder front let's

01:07:19.760 say because a ritalin

01:07:23.180 suppresses play that's

01:07:25.760 what it does

01:07:26.360 pharmacologically it

01:07:28.260 doesn't calm kids down

01:07:29.860 that's complete bloody

01:07:31.000 rubbish and it certainly

01:07:31.920 doesn't calm hyperactive

01:07:34.220 kids down differentially

01:07:35.600 none of that's the least

01:07:36.820 bit true but those

01:07:38.080 medications are widely

01:07:39.080 used and so boys are

01:07:40.840 demoralized right at the

01:07:42.160 beginning in school

01:07:42.880 because their natural

01:07:44.020 proclivity for boisterous

01:07:45.620 activity is deemed

01:07:47.240 inappropriate and then

01:07:49.100 there's explicit training

01:07:50.600 that happens next and the

01:07:51.940 explicit training is a

01:07:53.420 bloody leftist claim that

01:07:54.820 you know history is to be

01:07:56.360 read as nothing but a

01:07:57.260 patriarchal nightmare the

01:07:59.040 inference being that all of

01:08:01.140 the competitive striving that

01:08:02.700 characterizes masculinity is

01:08:04.440 nothing but the force that

01:08:06.580 manifests itself as

01:08:08.760 patriarchal domination and

01:08:10.960 tyranny and so any boy that

01:08:13.940 has any degree of

01:08:15.100 compassion let's say and who

01:08:17.240 might feel guilty for his

01:08:19.480 toxic masculinity is going to

01:08:22.080 be demoralized by the

01:08:23.560 suggestion that his ambition

01:08:24.820 is nothing but the

01:08:26.660 manifestation of implicit

01:08:28.100 tyrannical force and if he

01:08:30.100 escapes that well then the

01:08:32.180 leftists are there to mop up

01:08:33.660 whatever you know bit of

01:08:34.840 courage might be left by

01:08:36.060 accusing him of being part of

01:08:37.480 the force that's eternally

01:08:38.940 raping the planet and so

01:08:41.520 you you see and I've seen

01:08:43.520 thousands of cases of this

01:08:44.900 it's been devastating to me to

01:08:46.400 see how widespread this is the

01:08:47.920 degree of demoralization that

01:08:49.900 characterizes young men is is

01:08:52.620 it's almost incomprehensible it's

01:08:55.040 incomprehensibly deep and it's

01:08:56.640 hurting people in a very deep

01:08:57.960 way and it's not just hurting

01:08:59.920 boys and men obviously because

01:09:02.400 if women are then faced with an

01:09:04.840 entire cohort of demoralized

01:09:06.560 men it's like well what the hell

01:09:08.340 are they going to do for a

01:09:09.460 partner you know there's lots of

01:09:11.540 universities now where it's two

01:09:13.040 to one women to men well that's

01:09:15.160 no damn good for the women how

01:09:16.940 are they going to find a

01:09:17.780 partner right and the idea you

01:09:20.260 know women say there are no good

01:09:21.500 men well yeah this is what

01:09:22.740 happened they they destroyed boys

01:09:25.080 they destroyed men and then

01:09:26.820 obviously women are unable to

01:09:28.860 find somebody because the pool

01:09:30.340 has gotten like this I have a

01:09:32.700 daughter and two sons I

01:09:34.160 absolutely think that there's a

01:09:36.500 difference between the two sexes

01:09:38.360 they're born different there it's

01:09:40.820 not just something that they grow

01:09:42.180 into their day one they were

01:09:44.040 different and the idea that

01:09:46.000 they're the same and that we

01:09:47.080 should treat them the same and

01:09:48.620 that we should give preference to

01:09:51.160 girls I think that that's a real

01:09:53.000 problem I I don't know that we've

01:09:56.480 gotten to a point where we can

01:10:00.180 treat them equally I that would be

01:10:02.020 you know obviously the the the

01:10:03.660 goal but you know in the meantime I

01:10:05.640 think we need to do more for boys I

01:10:07.420 think we're we're really raising a

01:10:09.020 lost generation of boys and it's

01:10:11.480 scary to me that it's so easily

01:10:13.340 dismissed because oh who cares about

01:10:15.500 boys they've done well enough in

01:10:18.540 history that we don't need to worry

01:10:19.920 about this group of boys now I

01:10:22.660 definitely worry about my sons more

01:10:24.480 than I worry about my daughter

01:10:25.420 there's also there's a lurking

01:10:26.920 there's a lurking danger there too so

01:10:29.520 the the rising attractiveness of

01:10:34.200 figures like Andrew Tate speaks to

01:10:38.700 the danger of demoralizing young men

01:10:41.480 because if you demoralize young men

01:10:45.200 you make what would you say

01:10:48.460 charismatic bad men become much more

01:10:51.180 attractive because they're the men who

01:10:54.720 say well to hell with all of this

01:10:56.560 idiot constraint and pathetic morality

01:10:59.300 I'm just going to go and do whatever

01:11:00.740 the hell I want which is a kind of a

01:11:02.700 narcissistic route to self

01:11:04.460 aggrandizement and attainment right

01:11:06.600 but if the alternative to that is to

01:11:08.940 lay you know half comatose in your

01:11:12.800 basement being depressed about the

01:11:15.060 impending apocalypse a little bit of

01:11:17.720 attractive criminality beckons as

01:11:19.800 quite the compelling alternative and

01:11:23.180 that can easily be make itself

01:11:25.140 manifest on the political front you

01:11:26.960 know if you raise a generation of

01:11:29.080 demoralized men and then you wave a

01:11:30.940 leader in front of them who says

01:11:32.500 some forthright self-aggrandizing

01:11:38.700 semi-criminal behavior would be in your

01:11:41.780 best interest the probability that

01:11:43.960 they're going to find that attractive

01:11:45.240 that kind of well that's that's a good

01:11:48.680 route to a kind of fascist populism

01:11:50.780 let's say the probability that people

01:11:53.260 are going to find that attractive is

01:11:54.500 extremely high I mean I think that part

01:11:56.360 of the reason that Trump was

01:11:57.860 attractive and I am not going to you

01:12:00.580 know grind away negatively and

01:12:02.540 simple-mindedly on Trump because he's a

01:12:04.520 complicated character but part of the

01:12:06.480 reason that Trump was attractive was

01:12:08.180 because he had that you know up yours

01:12:11.720 attitude that giant make middle finger

01:12:14.140 attitude towards the woke mob that was a

01:12:17.040 hell of a lot more attractive than the

01:12:18.840 half-baked cowardly kowtowing that the

01:12:22.620 typical conservatives do when faced with a

01:12:24.960 woke onslaught and you know Trump at least

01:12:28.060 had the gall to tell people to go to hell

01:12:29.980 when it was necessary and maybe he did that

01:12:32.640 more often than he should have I mean he's

01:12:34.600 not the world's he's definitely a bull in a

01:12:37.820 china shop but you know maybe it's better

01:12:40.240 to have a bloody bull in the china shop

01:12:42.500 than a castrated gelding you've covered

01:12:45.280 Trump you know and you have your

01:12:46.900 ambivalent what would you say feelings

01:12:49.620 about him I mean how do you read Trump's

01:12:52.680 popularity in light of the culture wars

01:12:55.040 that we've been describing and what do

01:12:56.920 you think is going to happen on the

01:12:58.140 republican front you know you've been

01:12:59.620 involved with the DeSantis enterprise and

01:13:01.660 DeSantis looks like the prime challenger

01:13:04.580 to Trump but at the moment Trump seems to

01:13:06.860 be trumping him in terms of overall

01:13:08.980 popularity and I think the bloody

01:13:10.540 democrats are pretty happy about that so

01:13:12.660 how do you see this playing out you're

01:13:15.160 right that he has stood up to the woke

01:13:18.860 mob etc and he's been himself the whole

01:13:21.720 time I think a lot of what his campaign

01:13:24.440 is doing now though I wrote about it

01:13:27.240 recently where I really don't like that

01:13:29.420 he's trashing Florida's policies I

01:13:32.020 understand that political campaigns get

01:13:35.180 very dirty I expect if Ron DeSantis gets

01:13:38.160 into the race that the primary is going

01:13:39.720 to be a really dirty one but attacking

01:13:42.140 conservative policies that are actually

01:13:44.140 working in the model republican state

01:13:46.500 really makes no sense to me and I hope

01:13:50.380 that his campaign takes what I wrote to

01:13:52.800 heart and doesn't just dismiss it because

01:13:55.640 whoever ends up the candidate I want to

01:13:58.340 see them be strong and be able to defend

01:14:01.280 ideas and not just be a cult of

01:14:04.280 personality I'm obviously a big fan of

01:14:07.680 Governor DeSantis I moved to Florida in

01:14:10.300 large part because of his policies but

01:14:13.140 obviously the move you know I moved my

01:14:15.100 whole family it's not just because of a

01:14:17.120 politician we saw a sanity in Florida that

01:14:20.600 had been missing and I had never really

01:14:22.240 experienced in New York so it definitely

01:14:25.600 was Governor DeSantis leading the way I

01:14:27.640 think a lot of what he's doing and

01:14:29.060 especially on things like woke my sons are

01:14:31.640 in a public school in Florida and I don't

01:14:33.900 worry about them learning gender

01:14:35.240 ideology in school I don't worry about

01:14:37.200 them learning critical race theory in

01:14:38.740 school I just worry a lot less I mean I'm

01:14:41.660 still worried about things like reading but

01:14:43.480 I just have a lot less to be concerned

01:14:46.480 with in Florida and idea of the Trump

01:14:49.740 campaign attack so now you're now you're

01:14:52.940 worried about what he's not being now

01:14:55.160 you're worried about what he's not being

01:14:56.800 taught instead of what he is well I would

01:14:58.660 say that I have found Florida school to be

01:15:00.840 incredible like I feel like a lot of what I

01:15:04.580 talk about when I talk about Florida it

01:15:05.920 sounds like I drank the Kool-Aid and I

01:15:07.760 have because it's really a magnificent

01:15:09.900 place it's such a great place to raise a

01:15:12.020 family I didn't know what I was missing for

01:15:15.160 so long and you know we have a lot of

01:15:17.740 discussions with some of our mutual

01:15:19.640 friends about getting Jordan Peterson to

01:15:21.600 make the move someday I think you'd really

01:15:23.940 enjoy it but it's a great we have an

01:15:27.440 enterprise we have an enterprise we have

01:15:29.980 an enterprise in Miami and my daughter

01:15:32.160 spent some time there and so I've enjoyed

01:15:34.660 being in Florida let's talk about that

01:15:36.400 personally for a minute now you're you

01:15:38.600 were a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker and

01:15:41.400 you lived in the liberal neighborhood and I

01:15:43.020 mean New York has its attractions it's an

01:15:45.060 incredibly exciting it's an incredibly

01:15:47.380 exciting city and so and it tends to evoke a

01:15:51.500 substantial amount of what patriotic

01:15:54.200 identification among its inhabitants you

01:15:56.980 know there's no place in the world like New

01:15:58.820 York and that's particularly what New

01:16:00.600 Yorkers think and they have some reason

01:16:02.200 for that but you moved to Florida which

01:16:04.680 was a major move and you said that you've

01:16:08.680 experienced being in Florida as a relief

01:16:10.940 and so like exactly why is that you're not

01:16:13.160 worried you said you're not worried about

01:16:14.500 your kids in school now but what else did

01:16:18.300 you see that changed for you when you got

01:16:21.700 out of that liberal hothouse atmosphere of

01:16:24.120 New York and how and how do you think that

01:16:26.320 was affecting you now when you look at it

01:16:28.960 in retrospect I was a New York supremacist I

01:16:32.360 thought New York was not just the best but

01:16:35.620 the only place to live I couldn't even

01:16:37.840 imagine a life outside of it and getting to

01:16:41.500 Florida and every time I fly back to

01:16:43.660 Florida and landing in Florida I just feel

01:16:47.920 this sense of freedom that I've never felt

01:16:50.620 before freedom to say what you want to raise

01:16:54.080 your kids how you want to say things that

01:16:58.000 people know to be true but have to pretend

01:17:00.720 that are not true in New York I don't I

01:17:03.540 don't have to do that in Florida we don't

01:17:05.000 have to pretend we everybody that I've met

01:17:07.540 even people who are politically on the left

01:17:09.800 can be themselves and don't have to worry

01:17:12.840 about their neighbors coming for them

01:17:15.940 which actually was happening in New York

01:17:18.580 City and I think that the New York of my

01:17:22.640 childhood and the New York of my dreams

01:17:24.580 really got crushed during COVID we had been

01:17:28.540 through so many tough times before the post

01:17:30.600 9-11 period the blackout of 2003 various

01:17:35.420 hurricanes in New York that did a lot of

01:17:37.440 damage but we always came out of it

01:17:40.540 stronger and this was the first time that I

01:17:42.900 really felt like New York came out of it

01:17:44.780 weaker and they just the pandemic exposed

01:17:50.100 that the New Yorkers that I had always loved

01:17:52.720 the independent strong unique New Yorkers

01:17:56.040 were going to be sheep going forward and

01:17:59.460 that they felt the pressure to conform and

01:18:02.980 they became this conformist blob that I

01:18:05.740 could no longer you know defend and

01:18:08.600 appreciate Florida is just it's a beacon

01:18:13.780 of freedom and it's been for the last

01:18:15.460 three years I think it's really become

01:18:17.660 something unique where if you want to be

01:18:20.860 free if you want to be bold if you want to

01:18:23.220 say what you want to say Florida is the

01:18:24.840 place to do it yeah well you know there's

01:18:26.880 an interesting parallel between your

01:18:28.740 parents leaving the Soviet Union and you

01:18:30.760 leaving New York and I don't want to make

01:18:32.820 a lot of that but here's the parallel you

01:18:34.780 know and and I spent quite a lot of time

01:18:37.860 working with Democrats over the last

01:18:40.380 decade and one of the things that I found

01:18:43.740 very difficult was that I was trying to

01:18:46.320 help the people that I was consulting with

01:18:48.760 let's say pull the party to the center

01:18:51.520 away from the grip of the woke radicals and

01:18:55.660 I didn't I wouldn't say I had a lot of

01:18:58.060 success on that front I had some success

01:19:00.660 for better or for worse but I got very

01:19:03.940 tired of having to watch every bloody

01:19:05.820 thing I said you know because I would

01:19:07.860 rather be around people where I can just

01:19:10.480 say what I think and sometimes that's a

01:19:12.640 joke and sometimes it's harsh and

01:19:14.220 sometimes it's real harsh and but I can do

01:19:17.580 it and they can do it and that's just

01:19:19.580 fine and this sense of walking on eggs

01:19:22.580 constantly gets extraordinarily wearing but

01:19:24.960 there's something deep and horrible about

01:19:26.900 that because you know people think that

01:19:29.680 when you're in a totalitarian state the

01:19:32.220 reason that the state is totalitarian

01:19:34.000 because everyone is the victim of top-down

01:19:36.860 pressure from tyrants and that's completely

01:19:40.120 that's not how it works at all a state

01:19:43.400 becomes totalitarian when every single

01:19:45.800 person is lying about absolutely everything

01:19:49.220 all the time and you said that you started

01:19:51.120 to experience that in New York because you

01:19:53.020 had to pretend all the time you had to

01:19:55.740 watch your language you had to couch what

01:19:58.300 you say and you did because you were

01:20:00.460 afraid of how other people would react and

01:20:02.420 that is the totalitarian ethos and when

01:20:05.500 that's distributed across the population in

01:20:07.780 general you still have tyrants who are in

01:20:10.500 control but they're just mouthpieces of

01:20:12.500 that more generalized lie and you know I've

01:20:15.720 traveled a lot in the last three or four

01:20:17.880 years and I've been in places that were

01:20:19.560 very woke especially on the lockdown front

01:20:23.220 and I would say Toronto was first and

01:20:25.780 foremost among them worse than New York

01:20:28.480 worse than San Francisco worse than LA

01:20:31.120 worse than Washington a sense of real

01:20:35.260 oppression descended on me arriving say

01:20:38.220 back in Toronto airports and a sense of

01:20:40.860 real freedom emerged going to places like

01:20:43.700 well Tennessee Texas Florida where I could

01:20:46.800 say what the hell I wanted and everyone

01:20:48.520 wasn't half insane with mask frenzy and

01:20:51.120 frenzy and the associated COVID

01:20:53.600 authoritarianism you know and I'm more and

01:20:55.960 more convinced that there was no damn

01:20:57.440 pandemic at all I'm convinced on that front

01:21:00.560 not least in part because there's not a lot

01:21:02.560 of data showing excess mortality in Sweden

01:21:05.660 for example during the pandemic years what we

01:21:08.400 had instead and conservatives should probably

01:21:11.320 stop talking about the pandemic as such what we

01:21:13.900 had was an outbreak of two years of totalitarian

01:21:16.540 governance and that was the bloody pandemic it

01:21:20.080 was a lot worse than the virus by any stretch of

01:21:22.500 the imagination and there were some places that

01:21:24.860 managed to stay relatively free of that you know

01:21:27.480 Tennessee is a good example but so is Florida you

01:21:30.420 can go there and there is a sense of lightness

01:21:33.520 that I think it's palpable on landing and maybe it's

01:21:38.820 because the airports aren't quite as authoritarian as

01:21:41.260 they are in the more you know in the more lockdown

01:21:43.640 oriented states and provinces it's true I remember

01:21:47.320 landing in New York on you know various trips during

01:21:50.980 that time and there would be National Guard there you

01:21:54.100 know asking you where you're going the idea that that

01:21:57.860 would be happening in America is wild and you're

01:22:00.440 right it is some I mean look I don't want to discount I

01:22:03.620 when I say it's similar to my parents leaving the Soviet

01:22:05.860 Union it's similar because I'm moving towards freedom just

01:22:08.480 like they were and maybe we didn't come from the same

01:22:11.680 terrible totalitarian system but we both felt the social

01:22:16.540 pressure to conform and I didn't want to conform anymore I

01:22:19.680 wanted to be free I cannot tell you how many well-known

01:22:24.360 famous people were in my direct messages during that time

01:22:29.120 saying I agree with you but I can't say anything how many

01:22:32.800 news people in the media who are like yeah I think schools

01:22:36.780 should be open but I'm afraid to say anything well like in the

01:22:39.820 beginning I felt sorry for them and I was like I would

01:22:42.720 respond like I get it you know I understand you can't speak

01:22:45.700 out but after a while I came to really hate them and think

01:22:48.860 like you can't speak out about really basic things that you

01:22:52.980 know are affecting your children and other children and

01:22:55.700 you can't speak out because what you're gonna get a nasty

01:22:58.480 comment on Facebook it's just I I came to lose so much

01:23:03.000 respect for people who were conforming even when they didn't

01:23:06.860 have to yeah well I felt the same thing with regard to the

01:23:10.400 professoriate and the influx of the woke administrators it's

01:23:13.920 like look you guys you have tenure you are the most protected people

01:23:20.320 in the world right be brave you have this privileged position well

01:23:24.060 it's it's your uphold your bloody ethical responsibility the price you pay

01:23:29.280 for your tenured privilege is the requirement that you speak your mind

01:23:34.180 at whatever risk that poses to you now the culture has done everything it

01:23:39.300 possibly could to ameliorate that risk for you

01:23:41.900 everything it can and yet you don't have enough courage to

01:23:46.020 oppose you know the HR person who's pushing forward a diversity

01:23:50.820 inclusivity and equity proposal it's like well we we can't say anything about

01:23:54.980 that we have to go along with what the administration wants you know what

01:23:58.180 happened in the universities it's so interesting to watch and I watched this

01:24:01.400 over a 30-year period the first thing that happened was the administration

01:24:05.340 took over the universities and that's well documented all you have to do is look

01:24:10.760 at the statistics that show how much the administration increased in terms of

01:24:15.540 sheer numbers compared to how much the professoriate or the student body

01:24:20.040 increased and you see a massive increase in administrators and no a slight

01:24:25.020 increase in students and almost no increase whatsoever in faculty and the

01:24:29.180 reason that happened was because the administrators pushed and they could see

01:24:33.240 a good thing when they had one and they figured out how to pick the future

01:24:36.080 pockets of their students in a parasitical manner but and so that's on the

01:24:41.140 administrators but the faculty allowed it to happen just like the bloody

01:24:47.080 republicans have allowed the woke mob to take over the education system exactly the

01:24:51.940 same thing so it's on the faculty as far as I'm concerned cowards cowards thousand

01:24:58.380 micro retreats or ten thousand micro retreats but then what happened and this

01:25:02.380 was so bloody interesting is that once the administrators had taken over the

01:25:07.540 university the woke mob used the same tactics to take over the administration and

01:25:13.880 it probably took 30 years for the administrators to take over the

01:25:17.460 university it took like four years for the woke mob to take over the administration

01:25:21.860 and that's where we are now and that's for me that's a hundred percent on the

01:25:27.880 faculty because it was their job to to not allow this to happen and so and these

01:25:35.240 people that you're talking about I can understand why people are afraid of being

01:25:38.560 singled out and mobbed you know but if you're a journalist or an academic or a

01:25:43.120 politician you know you're someone on the front lines of the culture war it's your

01:25:46.680 bloody ethical responsibility to put yourself at some risk to say what you

01:25:51.440 believe to be the truth and so you know I might get mobbed well that's a reason

01:25:57.040 but it's not an excuse yeah I just I my thinking on them was what is the point of

01:26:02.220 you what is the point of you doing this job what is the point of any of this if

01:26:06.580 you're not able to speak really basic truths and it's gonna get harder it's like

01:26:12.160 it wasn't that hard to say schools should be open I think it gets a lot harder when

01:26:17.000 there they have to say look there are actually only two sexes there are only two genders and

01:26:22.000 there is no such thing as gender non-binary all of this becomes really difficult to to say

01:26:29.180 when you've already laid the foundation where you don't say anything controversial at all

01:26:33.260 um I it's just the lack of bravery it was scary to me it was scary to me not only among like famous

01:26:40.680 journalists etc but among parents the fact that they weren't fighting for their own kids and they

01:26:45.460 were expecting somebody else to do it I think is a really bad path to go down and if you're

01:26:51.300 expecting the culture or the school or somebody else to teach your kids values um you're gonna find

01:26:57.720 that they're gonna learn values that are not aligned with yours and that is what happens what

01:27:01.240 happens all the time well it's so interesting hey to think you know you were talking about the fact

01:27:07.360 now that it's risky to make the case for uh a sexual binary it's like it's so interesting hey because

01:27:13.820 people backtracked as a consequence of the onslaught of the reputation savaging woke mob and they made

01:27:23.700 little compromises along the way so to speak little compromises uh which weren't little at all but

01:27:29.100 appeared that appeared that way and within a period of a very short number of years

01:27:34.980 it's probably the last six years we've gone to we've got to the point where

01:27:40.120 stating the most what you could argue is the most self-evident fact

01:27:46.300 is enough to put your reputation on the line like I think cognitively speaking it isn't obvious to me

01:27:53.320 at all that there is a distinction that is more real than the distinction between male and female

01:28:00.240 because organisms that can't make that distinction don't propagate right it's and sex is extremely

01:28:08.680 old it's hundreds of millions of years old it's older than nervous systems by a large margin it's way

01:28:15.160 older than trees I think it's probably older than the distinction between up and down

01:28:20.620 I don't think there is any piece of differentiated perception that's more fundamental to the integrity

01:28:29.980 of our psyches and to the integrity of our social systems than agreement on the distinction between

01:28:36.820 male and female and the fact that we've gone from cowardly you know what would you say cowardly

01:28:44.820 adherence to the woke mob routine to the point where we can't even claim that there's a difference

01:28:49.760 between men and women just shows you exactly how dangerous the totalitarian slippery slope

01:28:56.120 precisely is so I mean Matt Walsh is getting pilloried like mad did they just throw him off

01:29:03.280 YouTube because he dares to do such a thing as stand up to Dylan Mulvaney who's like the most

01:29:09.020 preposterous human being that's ever existed narcissistic right to the bloody core as is obvious to anyone

01:29:16.000 who has the eyes to see playing this idiot game uh that's dementing the culture for not for no other

01:29:23.020 purpose than his own self-aggrandizement and the consequence of that is someone who points out the

01:29:28.560 completely obvious well god it's I mean when I first saw Dylan Mulvaney I actually thought he was

01:29:34.540 pretty damn funny his little routines running through the forest where he's pretending to be female

01:29:39.580 that's high comedy man unless you're taking it seriously in which case it's just an absolutely

01:29:45.460 dismal parody and I can never make up my mind with Mulvaney whether or not he's a comedic troll

01:29:51.540 and who's just playing this for the laughs or whether he's tied up in his own pathology and

01:29:56.480 and believes it's a serious endeavor I think it's half and half and I think that contradiction will

01:30:01.620 eventually tear him apart because there's no way someone can sustain that sort of thing over any

01:30:06.980 reasonable amount of time but the notion that he's some kind of cultural hero that he was welcome

01:30:12.420 to the White House that Kamala Harris sent him a note of commendation it's like you just can't make

01:30:17.820 and that Matt Walsh is being canceled for objecting to this absolutely absurd narcissistic parody you can't

01:30:25.280 make this up and it's so interesting to see that that silence you know that all the right thinkers who

01:30:32.060 are afraid of being mobbed uh allied themselves with has led us to a place where you were confusing

01:30:38.220 children regularly about whether or not they're boys or girls and that's moral you know god it's

01:30:44.940 something to behold man yeah I was just gonna say the cancellation factor it is affecting not just

01:30:51.420 you know moderate or left culture we had a hard time getting this book published Daily Wire took a chance

01:30:58.120 on us we are two fairly well-known writers in the conservative space of you know fairly large

01:31:04.860 followings publishers were very interested in our books we had meetings with all the conservative

01:31:09.740 publishers they they openly said to us we want this but a can you turn tone down the fighting a little

01:31:16.100 bit and then other publishers said to us the transgender chapter we're afraid Amazon's not going to sell

01:31:22.380 this we you know it was during the time when Abigail Schreier's book was in danger of being pulled

01:31:26.740 down off Amazon um Ryan Anderson's book had been pulled down they were afraid so when Daily Wire

01:31:32.680 offered us this deal it really was taking a chance and they knew that they were taking a chance on us

01:31:39.360 and that's that should be scary to everybody where do we live that even the conservative publishers

01:31:43.980 are afraid to publish books yeah yeah absolutely absolutely so now your book is available on Amazon

01:31:51.640 it is yes for now case okay so that's good so so we can be happy about that and so if people want to

01:32:01.320 pick up your book is that the best place to do it where else can they find it are all the bookstores

01:32:05.320 are so far distributing it all the bookstores and I yeah all the bookstores distributing it

01:32:10.100 on on Daily Wire books uh selling it Amazon how's it doing it's a bestseller well congratulations on

01:32:18.920 that front so it shows well so that's optimistic eh because you did write this book you did get it

01:32:24.240 published it isn't being cancelled and I you know I think there has been a shift in the tide in recent

01:32:29.960 in recent months especially after the closing of the Tavistock clinic in the UK which was a major blow to

01:32:36.740 to the to the uh to the to the woke gender transition mob and that hasn't fully unfolded

01:32:44.960 yet on the culture front but will over the next few years you know I suspect that you know I think in

01:32:50.240 10 years you won't be able to find a person who will admit to having ever supported the idea that

01:32:54.660 children should be medically transitioned that'll be as taboo as lobotomies you know it'll be as taboo as

01:33:00.640 right well or the fact that nobody everybody now says they didn't support lockdowns right and there

01:33:05.700 was nobody who supported lockdowns yeah Justin Trudeau uh didn't push anybody to get vaccinated

01:33:10.500 right right exactly exactly we're going to see a spate of historical revisionism the likes of which

01:33:16.160 we've never seen you know so with any luck your book along with Schreier's book there's a number of

01:33:22.380 them that have come out recently that have been decimating the arguments made on the uh gender

01:33:28.840 transition front especially for minors there's not a bloody shred of evidence that that so-called

01:33:33.580 gender-affirming care does one iota of good and it's preposterous to assume that it does but there's

01:33:39.700 certainly no evidence that it does and so it's very nice to see that there is some well-documented

01:33:46.840 journalistic work um like Schreier's for example and yours that is making a strong case for the

01:33:55.420 elimination of this particular brand of

01:33:58.040 unforgivable and malevolent stupidity virtue signaling stupidity fact that we're willing to

01:34:05.360 sacrifice children in the name of this perverse woke propaganda is i think it's beyond criminal

01:34:12.760 you know and it's funny because the telegraph really supported me you know i wrote one vicious

01:34:17.500 article about childhood surgery the most vicious article i could produce i was actually afraid of it you

01:34:25.280 know calling the counselors who enabled this and the surgeons liars and the surgeons who perform the

01:34:32.900 process as butchers which i think they are and calling outright for their imprisonment and criminal

01:34:39.720 prosecution which is exactly what i think should happen and the telegraph published both of those

01:34:45.120 articles which was extremely brave of them and it was so weird to launch them into the public sphere

01:34:50.000 because 99 of the comments were positive so it's not like people think this is a good idea but

01:34:58.200 a very loud minority of very nasty creatures think it's a good idea and they're perfectly willing to do

01:35:04.180 everything they can to ruin your life if you dare to uh to object um their their teeth are being pulled

01:35:11.740 though they're a very loud minority um they implement what they want through force and they try to force

01:35:20.320 conformity and that's how they get it done um but yeah they're a tiny minority uh they're gonna grow

01:35:26.120 right now i would say seven percent of the of the u.s refers to themselves as very liberal and i bet that

01:35:32.060 number for woke is even lower um but it they they certainly will grow if we let them yeah yeah well you

01:35:39.340 what that really highlights i would say and maybe we can close with this before we move over to the

01:35:43.840 daily wire plus side of things you know it's if you look at the course of revolutions throughout human

01:35:50.820 history especially the more pathological revolutions like the russian revolution it was a tiny minority

01:35:56.920 of people who fomented the revolution it doesn't take that many people this is the thing that everyone

01:36:02.600 has to realize you might think well it's a tiny minority of people who are pushing this it's like yeah well

01:36:07.480 it's always a tiny minority of people that upset the apple cart and the thing is they can especially

01:36:13.360 when they get organized i mean andy no told me andy studied antifa probably more than anyone else in the

01:36:18.680 world and uh i had a bunch of democrats at one point tell me that antifa didn't exist and these were

01:36:25.120 smart people and i thought what the hell do you mean and they said well you know they have no formal

01:36:29.640 organization there's no hierarchy they're not a charitable institution no they don't they're not a

01:36:35.560 they're not a recognized organization and i thought well fair enough that's a point and so i asked andy

01:36:41.360 about antifa and he i asked him how many cells he thought there were and he thought about something

01:36:48.640 approximating 40 and i said well how many full-time employee equivalents do these cells have

01:36:54.820 and he figured 20 per cell and that's 800 people and there's 320 320 million people in the u.s so that's

01:37:03.740 one person in 400 000 and so that's kind of statistically indistinguishable from zero people

01:37:10.320 right in a city of a million you'd have two people but the terrifying aspect of that is that's actually

01:37:16.820 enough like 800 well-organized people especially given electronic resources they can wreak an awful

01:37:25.600 lot of havoc and so minority or not we're still in a position of how can this be regulated so that

01:37:32.920 you know they don't bring the whole bloody thing crashing to a halt which is certainly

01:37:36.680 certainly their aim so all right well i would recommend to everyone who's listening that you check out

01:37:43.900 you check out carol's book stolen youth apparently you can get it where books are sold online and

01:37:50.280 otherwise and so that's good you haven't been cancelled and in fact your book is a bestseller so

01:37:55.060 you know kudos to daily wire and also to you um have have there been any critical reviews um there have

01:38:03.840 uh there have been um i think in sleet or salon one of those uh where they call us names like you know

01:38:13.040 gender phobes or i don't know i don't even know what they're saying at this point um but nothing

01:38:18.020 that oh it was a daily beast yeah it didn't make any sense oh yeah well that yeah well that daily

01:38:25.020 beast specializes in things that don't make sense so but any any thoughtful critical reviews

01:38:31.420 no i you know i would love to do adversarial interviews about the book um but we you know i

01:38:38.800 haven't been offered any and i would love to argue with somebody about the concepts that we talk about

01:38:43.900 in the book i would love for cnn msnbc to invite me on and have a reasoned debate even if it's a you

01:38:51.940 know the the five minute cable news clip where they mostly yell at me let's do it like let's get the

01:38:58.260 conversation going but they'll never do it because you're not allowed to even platform have you reached

01:39:03.200 out to you know people well of course not of course not evil people like you that's right yeah

01:39:08.860 have you reached out to anna kasparian and the and the young turks maybe they would have you on

01:39:13.720 you know anna seems to have decided maybe everything the bloody woke left thinks isn't

01:39:19.180 she sure is and and so is i don't remember how to say his name uh ugyr how do you say chink chink yeah

01:39:26.700 chink yeah yeah well both of them both of them seem to be well it's so interesting watching them

01:39:31.680 because they're claiming that you know the woke mob is just a tiny proportion of progressives you

01:39:36.240 know it's like yeah like kamala harris for example who pushes equity non-stop so they're hand waving

01:39:42.320 about how this is just a right-wing fantasy this progressive nightmare but it is interesting to see

01:39:48.260 both of them you know take stock again and realize that indeed the left can and has gone too far

01:39:55.160 so yeah fun to see you on the young turks but you know that probability that strikes me as pretty much

01:40:01.260 zero anyways everyone who's watching and listening you can pick up this book stolen youth and

01:40:06.740 you know especially if you're a parent or maybe an interested teenager it might be a book you want

01:40:12.260 to pick up and thanks carol very much for agreeing to talk to me today and good luck with the promotion

01:40:17.800 of your book and your further work and uh thank you to the dailyware plus for making this conversation

01:40:23.080 possible facilitating this studio here in portugal i'm in porto portugal today which is beautiful old

01:40:29.260 town and uh to everybody watching and listening um thank you for your time and attention and also

01:40:35.100 i'm going to talk to carol for another half an hour on the dailywire plus platform we'll do more

01:40:40.060 autobiographical interview uh talking about the manner in which her career path made itself obvious and

01:40:48.000 accessible to her and so if you're interested in that uh please consider subscribing to the dailywire

01:40:56.220 plus they could use your support anyways because they're one of the few organizations brave enough

01:41:01.180 for example to publicize matt walsh's documentary what is a woman and to publish your book and so you

01:41:08.880 know that kind of courage arguably could use some support if we want to facilitate and reward its

01:41:15.480 existence anyways carol thanks a lot for talking to me today hello everyone i would encourage you to

01:41:23.160 continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com

01:41:28.820 you

01:41:29.820 you

355. Who’s Holding Sway Over Your Kids？｜ Karol Markowicz

Summary

Transcript

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

355. Who’s Holding Sway Over Your Kids？ ｜ Karol Markowicz

Summary

Transcript

355. Who’s Holding Sway Over Your Kids？｜ Karol Markowicz