Former Vice President Mike Pence joins Dr. Jordan Peterson on Daily Wire Plus to discuss his run for President in 2020 and why he decided to run for the highest office in the land. Mike and his wife, Karen Pence, discuss the challenges facing the country today and how they came to the conclusion that the country needs a new generation of leaders to take the country back to a more "normal" and "sane" America. They discuss the need for a president who is willing to stand up and speak truth to power and stand up to the liberal agenda, and why they believe it's time to elect someone who will bring a return to a "normalcy" and sanity to American politics. Jordan Peterson is a pediatrician who specializes in treating depression and anxiety. With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way, and offers a roadmap towards healing. He provides a roadmap toward healing, showing that, while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward. If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better. Go to Dailywire Plus now and start watching Jordan B. Peterson's new series on Depression and Anxiety. Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve. - let this be a step towards a brighter, more normalized, more sane, more productive, more peaceful, more prosperous, more hopeful America! Dr. B.B. Peterson to help you find a brighter future that you deserve and a more opportunities to live your best life. . - Dr. Dr. Michael Peterson - Dailywire on Dailywireplus is a new series that could be a lifeline for those struggling with Depression and Anxiousness in a world that's better than the rest of us all . . . and a way to feel better than we could be a better version of ourselves. , and a place where we can all be a better, not just better, so we can be more like each other more like us better than us , more or less like us, more like , more like you, and more like ourselves, more than we can do better, and a better place ... more like a better country I hope you like it
00:00:00.960Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.
00:00:06.480Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:12.740We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:20.100With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:27.420He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:00:35.360If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:00:41.780Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:00:47.460Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:00:57.420Hello everyone watching and listening.
00:01:10.640Today I'm speaking with former Vice President and now 2024 Presidential Candidate Mike Pence.
00:01:17.460We discuss U.S. government overreach in economic matters when it should be playing referee.
00:01:23.980The indoctrination of our youngest citizens.
00:01:27.620How parents are being purposefully alienated from their children via ideological capture.
00:01:33.000The realistic way forward on the Russia-Ukraine front.
00:01:37.260The loss of international respect due to our current administration.
00:01:40.920And how we might finally stabilize a nation wrought with cultural warfare.
00:01:45.720It's very good to have you on this podcast, Mr. Vice President.
00:01:50.160It's quite the honor, as a matter of fact.
00:01:53.200I guess that's actually my first question.
00:01:55.800You know, this, having presidential candidates sit down and do long-form podcasts like this is, it's a new, it's new.
00:02:30.940Look, the decision to run for the highest office in the land is one that no American would ever take lightly.
00:02:41.220And my family and I have given great thought, great prayer, and deliberation to this question over the last two years.
00:02:49.280And frankly, ultimately, it comes down to two things.
00:02:52.060Number one, it's the privileges that we've had to serve, the experiences that we've developed.
00:02:58.120I was not only vice president serving American home and abroad, but I was also a governor of a successful state in Indiana where we cut taxes and expanded educational choice.
00:03:08.900And before that, for 12 years, I was a leader of House conservatives in the Congress of the United States.
00:03:17.000And the sum total of that 20 years of experience gives us the confidence that if we were given the privilege of serving as president of the United States, that we'd be prepared.
00:03:29.640We'd be prepared to bring this country back, which leads me to the second reason why we decided to run, and that was, you know, I think this country's in a lot of trouble.
00:03:40.400I mean, as I've traveled around the country over the last two years, it's clear to me that Joe Biden and the radical left have weakened America at home and abroad.
00:03:51.420And we need new leadership, I believe, in the Republican Party and in the White House that will set this country back on a path of a strong national defense, of limited government, of a commitment to freedom and to traditional values.
00:04:08.560And it's in response to that, it's in the belief on which I was raised, I don't know if it made it in 12 rules, but it's an old rule in my life that to whom much is given, much will be required.
00:04:22.120And my family and I have been given much.
00:04:24.740We've been given incredible privileges and opportunities to lead.
00:04:28.580And when we look at the challenges facing our country today, we just felt we had a duty to step forward.
00:04:35.300We do so with great enthusiasm, and we've been very humbled at the outpouring of support that we've received, MikePence2024.com, and what we've heard out on the road already since we announced a little earlier this week in the great state of Iowa.
00:05:01.880And I walked away from that thinking, if Mike Pence was president, we might see a return to something like blessed normality.
00:05:13.000And that's a compliment, you know, because I think the times when politics gets radically interesting, something has gone dreadfully wrong.
00:05:24.440Like, I'd rather see something approximating a sane and normative administration than a continual, exciting, like, even hyper-charismatic battle.
00:05:38.180And so let me delve into that a little bit.
00:05:42.460You just outlined your qualifications.
00:05:44.620Well, I'm very humbled by those words, and, you know, it actually makes me think of another time, maybe a century ago.
00:05:51.860And I'm not someone that looks backwards or wants to turn the clock back.
00:05:55.060We could stop that conversation with anyone else now.
00:05:59.180But, you know, there was a season after World War I where a Republican ticket stepped forward.
00:06:06.820Literally, their message was a return to normalcy.
00:06:11.080I get a sense that the American people would like to get back to the policies that were advanced under a president I deeply admire, which was President Calvin Coolidge.
00:06:24.100He oversaw an incredible time of American prosperity.
00:06:27.240But at the core of his philosophy was an often quoted Calvin Coolidge statement that the business of America is business.
00:06:38.680And by that, he meant the business of America is not the government itself, that the federal government should not or the White House should not be the center of American life.
00:06:50.400And they actually—Calvin Coolidge's restraint and his instinctive conservatism really set a tone that allowed for a period of incredible innovation in the country.
00:07:03.260That's where we heard all the incredible stories about progress in manufacturing and industry.
00:07:09.480And I hold to the view that it's the free market.
00:07:21.320I know who makes this country go every day.
00:07:25.380And the government should be playing the role of the referee of the private sector and not at center court with all the attention focused there.
00:07:34.720Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight.
00:07:40.280Most of the time, you'll probably be fine.
00:07:42.320But what if one day that weird yellow mask drops down from overhead and you have no idea what to do?
00:07:47.740In our hyper-connected world, your digital privacy isn't just a luxury.
00:07:53.160Every time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe, hotel, or airport, you're essentially broadcasting your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept it.
00:08:02.480And let's be clear, it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this.
00:08:05.680With some off-the-shelf hardware, even a tech-savvy teenager could potentially access your passwords, bank logins, and credit card details.
00:08:12.740Now, you might think, what's the big deal?
00:09:20.640Now, I spent some time working with Democrats, and I just interviewed Robert F. Kennedy.
00:09:25.320And I asked him the same question that I've asked every Democrat I've met in the last five years.
00:09:30.520And the question I asked was, when does the left go too far?
00:09:35.880And I believe this to be true, that none of the Democrats that I've spoken with, and we spoke in good faith, and we had serious conversations, were able to or willing to answer that question.
00:09:46.900Now, you made a comment about the radical left.
00:09:48.920And so, when do you think the left goes too far, and what do you think, if they are going too far, those who are on the far left, like, how do you identify that?
00:09:59.080And what do you think might be, what's the appropriate response to that?
00:10:04.240Well, look, I've been at this a while, but I never thought I'd live to see the day that socialism was the animating economic philosophy of one of America's two major political parties.
00:10:18.760You know, I like to say to people, Joe Biden won the nomination of his party in 2020, but Bernie Sanders won the party.
00:10:27.700I mean, all the policies that you've seen flowing out of the Democratic Party and out of the Biden administration are driven by European-style socialism and welfare state policies.
00:10:39.660I mean, as I said, we're a nation that was founded on the constitutional principles of a limited federal government.
00:10:48.760Free enterprise, free market, private property, all of those things have been a wellspring, along with our faith, our family as a foundation of creating the strongest and freest, most prosperous nation in the history of the world by far.
00:11:06.860But I will tell you, this whole issue of advancing through critical race theory in our schools, literally teaching our kids to judge their peers not by the content of their character, but by the color of their skin, the opposite of the vision of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
00:11:31.800And then beyond that, the radical gender ideology that is afoot in our schools, in our universities, and in the culture today, I think has literally shocked the conscience of many parents who might never identify with mainstream conservative philosophies that we share and traditional values that we share, Jordan.
00:11:59.820I mean, my foundation in Washington, D.C., actually weighed in on a federal lawsuit.
00:12:06.780The Linmar community schools in Iowa require students to bring in a permission slip from their parents to get a Tylenol.
00:12:14.640But under the school policy, a student could get a gender transition plan from the health department at that high school without ever informing their parents.
00:12:24.720And as I said, when we went to Iowa and spoke about it, that's not just bad policy.
00:12:31.000And I see parents' rights groups are rising up all over the country and pushing back on the radical left's effort to indoctrinate our kids about our history.
00:12:45.000And also this whole business of trying to communicate this radical gender ideology.
00:12:54.060I think there's a wellspring of support pushing back on that.
00:12:57.800I think you're going to see that show up in 2024.
00:13:00.400Yeah, well, two things on that, I would say.
00:13:04.280The first, it was yesterday, you know, the National Health Service of the U.K. declared that they would no longer allow the use of puberty blockers for children except in research situations.
00:13:17.060And so I believe it's the U.K., Finland, Norway, Sweden, and Holland have all dropped, and Holland is where this started, by the way, the Netherlands, they're dropping the gender affirming model of care.
00:13:30.980And so the second thing is, yeah, this is a question I've been trying to put forward to Republicans, particularly at the level of the governor.
00:13:40.460So, you know, the faculties of education in the United States and in Canada have a hammerlock on teacher certification.
00:13:49.000And public education eats up about 50% of the state budgets.
00:13:53.020Now, I know this isn't a federal issue precisely, but I can't understand for the life of me why Republicans haven't noticed that by allowing the faculties of education,
00:14:04.340which are among the most corrupt institutions in higher education, by allowing them to maintain their hammerlock on teacher certification, which they've done nothing to deserve,
00:14:14.920they're essentially handing over half the state budgets to the worst students at the universities who are the most ideologically addled, who have direct contact with children.
00:14:25.260So, I mean, from a strategic perspective, this seems to me to be a very bad idea.
00:14:29.640And, you know, it's hard to push back against a system of ideas like the woke congregation of ideas without also stepping into sensorial territory,
00:14:39.900you know, which is the threat, I suppose, to some degree with regard to what's happening in Florida.
00:14:44.820When you think about strategy to forestall the narcissistic progressive agenda,
00:14:53.180what sort of strategies do you have in mind that could be employed at the federal level?
00:14:56.700Well, first, I'm, you know, I'm heartened to hear the progress in other countries protecting kids from chemical or surgical gender transition.
00:15:07.860I strongly support efforts in my home state of Indiana and around the country to prohibit gender transition, chemical or surgical treatment for children under the age of 18.
00:15:20.200I look at, I'm libertarian enough to say, if you're an adult, live while you live, you know, I may not agree with decisions you make, but we'll love you and love our neighbor as ourselves as my faith requires, right?
00:15:42.480I did a town hall on CNN not long ago, and the host of the show insisted on asking me, I think about five times in a row, about why I took such a strong stand on that.
00:15:53.780And I said, look, I'm standing here not just as a former vice president and a governor.
00:16:00.300This is really about protecting our kids from making decisions early in their lives when they're not equipped to make them.
00:16:07.360There's a reason we don't let kids drive cars until they're 16, and, you know, you can't even get a tattoo under the age of 18 in my home state.
00:16:16.760So this principle of protecting kids from irreversible choices, and you know and have spoken more eloquently than maybe anyone else about the deleterious effects.
00:16:28.920Now, go back to your question, because I think it's the fundamental question, and that is, so how do we push back?
00:16:35.860And I will tell you, I believe that giving parents the ability to choose where their children go to school, public, private, parochial, or homeschool, is the cure for what ails education in America.
00:16:51.660I think your point about teacher certification is a profound one, but I'm very struck by the fact that someone who I'm sure you respect a great deal,
00:17:00.260in fact, a couple, Milton and Rose Friedman, maybe one of the great free market economic minds of the last century.
00:17:09.220He left his entire state to a foundation to promote one idea, and that was educational choice.
00:17:18.100Because Milton Friedman said, our form of government will not survive without an educated citizenry,
00:17:26.700and that the only power strong enough to transform and renew American education is the free market.
00:17:37.380I'm proud to say the state of Indiana, Jordan, was one of the pioneers in educational choice.
00:17:42.560We were home to the very first privately funded school voucher program in the country that's been replicated all over the country for decades.
00:17:51.520But when I was governor, we had a small educational choice program.
00:17:58.720I don't know if the viewers and listeners of your podcast know this, but we really turned a corner very recently in this debate when the state of Arizona,
00:18:13.100under Governor Doug Ducey, in the last year in office, passed the first ever universal school choice program in the country.
00:18:23.320The state of Indiana has essentially followed.
00:18:27.260About 98% of people of our state now have educational choice.
00:18:35.000And I would submit to you that whether we're talking about the radical left's agenda in our schools,
00:18:41.840whether it's critical race theory, woke politics, or some of the profound issues in higher education you're speaking about,
00:18:48.120you give parents the ability to choose where their kids go to school, to be able to take their business down the street and find a school that, you know,
00:18:59.000it gives them a more classical education that, you know, my schoolteacher wife would tell you that teaches phonics to kids.
00:19:07.760I mean, parents will go shop and they will, I don't, I believe what, wherever people are on that ladder of success in America,
00:19:17.940everybody loves their kids, everybody loves their grandkids, and you give them the power to choose where their kids go to school
00:19:25.340and will turn education around in America faster than you could imagine.
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00:19:42.620From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage,
00:21:30.000And I grew up in a family that ran gas stations.
00:21:34.060I actually worked for five years, helped pay my way through college pumping gas.
00:21:39.260And so I would kind of break it down this way.
00:21:41.580I'd say to people, look, if there's only one gas station in town
00:21:44.260and you had to buy your gas there, how clean do you think the men's room would be, right?
00:21:52.080So it's competition for customers makes everybody better.
00:21:58.660And I will tell you, our experience in Indiana has been that our public schools have gotten better.
00:22:04.300They have stepped into that competition and improved once parents become empowered.
00:22:13.560We've seen parents in Indiana over the decades choose another public school over the public school that's failing them.
00:22:20.860And I will tell you, it's always been impressive to me that from very early on,
00:22:29.080the African-American community in this country has been a generation ahead of the rest of the country in support for educational choice.
00:22:41.360Jordan, I mean, literally, literally back in the 1990s in Indiana, when the overall population,
00:22:50.300even in a state that was promoting school choice, maybe get 50, 55 percent of Hoosiers that would support allowing parents to choose where their kids go to school,
00:23:00.440the number in the African-American community in our state was closer to 70 to 75 percent.
00:23:33.100I've heard the argument your friend made, and look, I don't mean to demean it, but it's just not been our experience.
00:23:39.600I mean, literally, I think of, you know, John F. Kennedy back when he talked about cutting taxes across the board, including the capital gains tax.
00:23:48.520And he said, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats.
00:23:52.020You know, you create competition in education in America, as we have in Indiana, as states around the country are doing.
00:24:01.940And as someone who's married to a woman that taught for 15 years in a public school, 15 years in a Christian school, I could tell you firsthand, there's an overwhelming majority that are teaching in our public schools or dedicated public servants, men and women that care deeply.
00:24:19.760It's just the management not being responsive, pushing down some sort of a liberal agenda, watering down some of the fundamentals and criteria for a good education.
00:24:32.280I think that washes away through the force of the free market.
00:24:38.840So, I feel obligated to warn you that, according to the dictates of YouTube, apparently, we've both now engaged in hate speech and the incitement of violence.
00:24:49.320So, I had a YouTube video taken off my channel yesterday, an interview with Helen Joyce, who wrote a book on the trans minor surgery phenomenon.
00:25:01.720And so, I'm sure we've broken the YouTube rules already in this discussion.
00:25:05.780So, it'll be interesting to see what they do as a consequence of that.
00:25:23.040So, that's a good foray in that direction.
00:25:27.680Let me ask you a couple of questions in a different direction, if you don't mind.
00:25:33.000I think often at the moment that we're all fiddling while Rome burns because, possibly, because of the situation in Russia and Ukraine.
00:25:41.540And, you know, one of the things that I found heartening, let's say, about the Trump presidency, where you served as vice president, was that there were four years without a major war.
00:25:51.940And your administration or that administration also advanced the Abraham Accords, which was a major move in the direction of peace in the Middle East.
00:25:59.920And now we have this war percolating away madly between Russia and Ukraine.
00:26:05.800And it's really a proxy war in many ways for the West and Russia.
00:26:09.080And, you know, it doesn't look very good to me.
00:26:12.760And so, if you became president, first of all, what do you think the way forward is on that front?
00:26:18.480I know the hawks are saying, the hawks on the Republican side in particular, and I think this is also true on the Democrat side, are taking this as an opportunity to demolish Russia's conventional forces.
00:26:28.860And to take them permanently out as a conventional enemy, let's say.
00:26:32.780Now, the problem I see in that is that when you push someone as powerful as Russia into a corner when they're nuclear armed and their conventional forces are weak, that that loosens the finger on the nuclear trigger.
00:26:44.440And it also doesn't seem to me that given how dependent we are on Russia and Ukraine for food and for energy, that weakening both of those countries on something approximating a permanent basis strikes me as reasonable long-term policy.
00:27:00.220So, what do you think the danger is on the Russia-Ukraine front, and what would your administration, what steps would your administration take in that direction?
00:27:07.740Well, I'm someone that believes that America is the leader of the free world.
00:27:15.040In 1985, Ronald Reagan, in a State of the Union address, articulated what came to be known as the Reagan Doctrine, which essentially said,
00:27:22.540it'll be the policy of the United States that if you're willing to fight the communists in your country, we'll give you the means to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here.
00:27:31.760And it was part and parcel of what ultimately brought down the Soviet Union.
00:27:37.760And I believe that that wisdom is still true today, that Ukraine is not our war, but freedom is our fight.
00:27:46.480Now, I know there are people in the presidential contest in my party who have spoke admiringly of Vladimir Putin's genius.
00:27:59.440Others have said that it's simply a territorial dispute.
00:28:02.480Well, I can tell you, I know the difference between a genius and a war criminal.
00:28:05.600And I know the difference between a territorial dispute and a Russian invasion.
00:28:11.580I mean, what's happening in Ukraine today is an unprovoked invasion that is claiming hundreds of thousands of lives.
00:28:17.780And I believe it's incumbent on the United States of America to continue to lead the West and provide the Ukrainian military what they need to repel the Russian invasion and reclaim their sovereignty.
00:28:30.700Now, I believe that's the right thing to do.
00:28:34.280My wife and I, Jordan, about a year ago, were visiting a Christian relief group in Poland that was assisting refugees.
00:28:42.840And when we arrived, we were told that we were cleared to go into Ukraine.
00:28:47.920This was a month after hostilities had begun.
00:28:51.020And we went 10 miles across the border to a refugee center.
00:28:55.320And Jordan, I say this with a broken heart.
00:28:57.380I saw things I thought I'd never see other than in black and white films from 75 years ago.
00:29:05.040I mean, there were all crowds of all women of every age, children of every age, carrying everything they could carry on their backs, literally fleeing this unconscionable Russian invasion.
00:29:19.620And so I think we have an obligation to be there.
00:29:22.740But I also want to say to you, I think it's in our national interest.
00:29:26.000There's others have said that it's not.
00:29:28.980I believe it was no coincidence that ours was the only administration in the 21st century where Putin did not attempt to redraw international lines by force.
00:29:42.140I mean, he rolled the tanks into the country of Georgia under the Bush administration.
00:29:46.320He, of course, took Crimea under the Obama administration.
00:29:48.600And now he's rolled across the border to Ukraine.
00:29:51.340I think the reason he didn't do that during our years was because we had the largest increase in military spending in more than a generation.
00:30:03.000We unleashed our military against ISIS, and they took them down without firing a shot.
00:30:07.920We actually took down 100 Russian mercenaries in a conflict in Syria without one American casualty.
00:30:15.300We shut down the Nord Stream 2 pipeline for all of the rhetorical efforts by my old running mate to reopen dialogue with Russia.
00:30:27.760We were very tough on Russia, and we were willing to use American military force to defend our interest and defend our allies around the world.
00:30:36.320And I think that kept Russia in check.
00:30:39.760So I think this is a moment that needs to be met with American strength.
00:30:44.360And I'm going to continue to advocate for that.
00:30:47.240I also think at the end of the day, if Russia was able to overrun Ukraine, in my judgment, it would not be long before the Russian military was crossing a border where we would have to send troops like my son, the Marine, my son-in-law, the Navy pilot.
00:31:07.920If he crosses into a NATO ally, then we're involved.
00:31:11.940We should not ever send American troops into Ukraine.
00:31:15.040We should hasten the delivery of military equipment and give them the ability to defend themselves.
00:31:21.840But I think stopping Russia there is also in the interest of the United States.
00:31:25.720And it sends a deafening message to China.
00:31:29.060Lastly, Jordan, it sends a deafening message to China.
00:31:32.380If we repel, we give Ukraine the ability to repel the Russian invasion, then I have no doubt in my mind that President Xi, who I've also met and spoken to privately,
00:31:43.060I think he'll get more instruction from that regarding his potential military ambitions in the Asia-Pacific than anything else that we could do.
00:31:57.280I was just informed your team once, 30 seconds to speak with you.
00:32:30.440So, let me ask you then, more specifically, if the war in Russia plays out the way that would be most beneficial to the West,
00:32:41.520what's your vision for victory and the cessation of conflict?
00:32:45.440What is it, do you suppose, that Russia has to leave on the table or bring to the table in order to bring this war to a halt?
00:32:52.700Yeah, I just think, I think we have to support the Ukraine military until they repel this Russian invasion from across their borders.
00:33:02.260I don't, now, I'll defer to President Zelensky and the government in Ukraine if they have a different view.
00:33:11.200But I think that giving them the means to push Russia out from where it commenced this invasion is absolutely essential to sending a message to the wider world that America is the leader of the free world and will support those that are standing for their freedom and sovereignty.
00:33:34.440In today's chaotic world, many of us are searching for a way to aim higher and find spiritual peace.
00:33:40.020But here's the thing, prayer, the most common tool we have, isn't just about saying whatever comes to mind.
00:33:45.880It's a skill that needs to be developed.
00:36:19.440We provided them resources that they were able to use in this fight over the four years of our administration.
00:36:26.480And the Biden administration immediately ended that when they came in.
00:36:31.200But at the initiation of hostility, he started to catch up.
00:36:34.200But I want to be clear, all of your viewers and listeners, Joe Biden has been slow on the uptake.
00:36:40.420And I think that, frankly, the disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan created the conditions that embolden the enemies of freedom.
00:36:48.620Now, Vladimir Putin is the one that's responsible for this unconscionable invasion.
00:36:53.440But I have no doubt in my mind that that disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan emboldened him to move.
00:37:00.060And I honestly believe that it's been the failed policies of the Biden administration that are contributing to not only war in Eastern Europe, Chinese provocations,
00:37:12.360but for heaven's sakes, Jordan, after we achieved the first peace accord in nearly 30 years in the Middle East,
00:37:21.220the Biden administration did nothing to build on the Abraham Accords, sent ambiguous signals to Israel about our support,
00:37:31.100and then stood idly by while China negotiated a treaty between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
00:37:40.340I mean, there is a vacuum of American leadership on the world stage today.
00:37:47.320And the antidote here is American engagement, American leadership, and American strength.
00:37:53.980It's also worth folks that are looking on knowing the Biden administration has been busy cutting military spending since day one.
00:38:02.600And the only thing positive about that gigantic supplemental bill that passed at the end of the last Congress was that it caught up on military budget cuts that the Biden administration had been advancing.
00:38:18.540But with this new debt ceiling deal, people deserve to know that after you net out inflation, it's got a 1% cut in military spending.
00:38:26.600China's floating a new battleship every month and has doubled its military budget in the last 15 years.
00:38:34.540And here we have an administration that is cutting military spending, all the while they're carrying that political correctness and critical race theory and radical gender ideology into the Pentagon's hallways itself.
00:39:02.620So your sense is that the best strategy for dealing with Russia and also, tell me if I've got this right, and also simultaneously China is to bolster the American military to ensure that Russia, that the sufficient aid is provided to Ukraine to stop Russia in its tracks.
00:39:24.300That that sends the proper message to China, that that would require further support for the American military, and that that's the best way to stop Russian adventurism.
00:39:35.520What do you think of arguments that Russia had felt threatened as a consequence of NATO incursion into Ukraine, and that a fair part of this conflict emerged because the Russians felt that they were being encroached upon by the expansion of the NATO alliance and the potential inclusion of Ukraine into that domain?
00:39:56.540I mean, and you know, it's also the case that Putin certainly has appealed to his people on that front.
00:40:02.760He's also told his people that he is a buttress against the kind of woke ideology that we've also discussed.
00:40:12.600And then the third problem, I suppose, is that I'm still concerned, understanding your argument, I'm still concerned that pushing the Russians into a corner where they become dangerously weak heightens the probability of, let's say, limited exchange of nuclear weapons on the battlefield.
00:40:29.900So, you said, we frighten China, we keep Russia at bay.
00:40:34.800I'm concerned about the fact that the Russians perhaps share some of the more conservative Western views with regard to the woke nightmare, and also that if we push them into a corner, they're more likely to have an itchy nuclear trigger finger.
00:40:49.220Well, I just honestly believe the NATO argument, the threat from NATO, that's all just posturing by Putin.
00:40:55.980You carefully examine his public statements for years, Jordan.
00:41:00.160He's been very clear that his ambition is to reestablish what was the old Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe.
00:41:11.060And so there's, I mean, look, NATO has been a peaceful alliance of the West, forged as it was in the aftermath of World War II.
00:41:22.460And I think there's one reason and there's one person to blame for the unconscionable invasion and war that's raging in Ukraine today, and that's Vladimir Putin.
00:41:37.200And we just simply need to hold him to account.
00:41:39.020With regard to the fact that we never want to forget that Russia is the second largest nuclear power in the world, I believe we need to make it clear that our military support for Ukraine is for repelling the Russian invasion in Ukraine and restoring their sovereignty.
00:42:03.320I think that it's absolutely essential that the commander chief of the United States make it clear to the Ukrainian military and our alliance how far our support goes.
00:42:17.200And I think that making it clear that this is about reestablishing what's been claimed and not intruding upon or attempting to, you know, move into the sovereign territory of Russia is important.
00:42:36.400And look, but this is statecraft, this is real, and I just have to hold view that weakness arouses evil, but peace comes through strength.
00:42:51.040And I think that by electing a new president that understands that basic principle that's able to marshal the support in the Congress to build a military fitted to the times by hastening the support, if the war isn't already over, hastening the support of the Ukrainian military to repel the Russian invasion.
00:43:10.540I think the world quiets down very quickly.
00:43:14.540And again, the argument that I really reject is people that say, well, no, the real issue in the world today is China.
00:43:30.520I've met with all of our allies in the region.
00:43:32.380I understand what China's up to and how broad their ambitions are.
00:43:39.680But I also believe that, as you can see, the alliance has been forged between Xi and Putin, that Xi is looking very carefully at how the West responds to Russia's attempt to redraw international lines by force.
00:43:58.740And while it's continued its provocations, even over the last two weeks, with Navy ships at sea in the Taiwan Straits and in the air,
00:44:10.760sending a message to them that the free world will not tolerate redrawing international lines by military force,
00:44:20.300will contribute greatly to tamping down China's ambitions in the Asia-Pacific.