The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 378. Posie Parker： Anti-Trans Activist or Women's Rights Champion？

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00:00:57.420 Hello everyone watching and listening.

00:01:11.700 Today I have the privilege of speaking with women's rights activist Kelly J. Keene, also known as Posey Parker.

00:01:20.200 We discuss the co-opting and invading of women's spaces, the hatred, jealousy, and attraction,

00:01:26.880 toward what women naturally possess, which underlies the transgender movement,

00:01:32.880 the rise of false compassion as a means to censor and control,

00:01:37.820 what Posey Parker aims to accomplish with her Let Women Speak events,

00:01:42.820 and how social pressure ideologically captured police and terrorizing mobs have not and will not silence her.

00:01:52.380 Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me today, Kelly J.

00:01:57.780 Tell me about the name Parker Posey first.

00:02:01.880 So when I was expecting one of my babies, there were two names on our list, Posey and Parker,

00:02:09.980 and so when I joined an online forum, I just used those as an anonymous name, and it stuck.

00:02:15.940 But I go with my real name these days.

00:02:20.680 I see.

00:02:21.240 Okay.

00:02:21.540 And so do you want to, maybe you could let everybody who's watching and listening know a little bit about you.

00:02:28.720 And I don't know much about you.

00:02:30.760 I've read your Wikipedia page and done some background research as well.

00:02:34.300 You sound like quite the monster when you read your Wikipedia page, but it's a Wikipedia page,

00:02:40.040 so, you know, that has to be taken with the requisite grain of salt, and we can go through that.

00:02:46.440 I mean, it's quite interesting, for example, that you're described as an anti-transgender rights activist.

00:02:52.720 That's pretty convenient for the people who don't like what you're saying, right,

00:02:55.860 that you're an anti-transgender rights activist.

00:02:59.020 The left, you've got to give the leftist radicals a certain amount of credit for being able to warp language like nobody's business.

00:03:05.620 So, but who are you, and why are you doing what you're doing?

00:03:09.480 So, I am a mother of four and a happily married woman.

00:03:14.420 I've been with my husband for 25 years, and then in 2015, this issue came along.

00:03:19.680 I was a full-on Labour voting lefty, and I joined an online forum of women,

00:03:26.660 and then loads of men started populating it, and unlike the women who actually were completely ineffective

00:03:33.340 in their campaigning, unlike the men, women weren't talking about themselves, what they looked like.

00:03:39.380 They weren't posting photos, but these men did, and they were really masculine-looking men with wigs

00:03:45.760 and sort of 1980s secretary looks, and I just asked one of them one day,

00:03:51.520 do you really identify as a woman?

00:03:53.420 And the vitriol from him was bad enough, but from other women was just astounding.

00:04:00.140 And I just thought, well, I'm not allowed to talk about this, so I want to talk about this,

00:04:05.100 and I'm not having anybody telling me that I can't talk about something so significant.

00:04:09.520 And then I just started.

00:04:11.680 2018, I put a billboard up with the dictionary definition of the word woman,

00:04:15.720 and that really sort of solidified my place in this movement.

00:04:19.320 Yeah, the billboard, that was adult human female?

00:04:23.420 Yeah.

00:04:25.200 Hateful.

00:04:26.880 Yeah, well, that's pretty, yeah.

00:04:29.040 Yeah, okay, so you said a couple of things there that I found interesting.

00:04:32.520 So that the first was that you asked one of these men who was in this woman's forum whether

00:04:41.720 or not he identified as a woman and received a lot of hate and vitriol in response.

00:04:48.900 So, well, first question is, do you feel that you crafted your question in a manner that might

00:04:53.320 have invited that sort of response, or what other explanation do you have for it?

00:04:56.940 And then the second thing you said, which I think is equally relevant, is that not only

00:05:02.440 did you receive a lot of vitriol from the person to whom you directed the question, but you received

00:05:08.140 excess vitriol from women.

00:05:11.980 And so, first of all, let's inquire into the question that you posed to see if there was

00:05:17.780 anything provocative about it.

00:05:19.300 And second, I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you have experienced the fact that women

00:05:26.080 are very likely to jump on this particular bandwagon, for example, and provide noisy and

00:05:36.860 self-righteous support for the people that you are hypothetically pilloring.

00:05:44.000 So let's start with the question, like, do you feel that you asked a fair question?

00:05:47.900 And of this particular man?

00:05:51.400 I actually don't think I asked a question, and that's because my knowledge in 2023 means

00:05:57.600 I think it probably wasn't provocative enough.

00:05:59.920 I think I should have basically not asked the question, do you identify, but just told him

00:06:03.880 that he wasn't a woman, and it was insulting to pretend to be one.

00:06:08.720 So, yeah, it was the wrong question, but I've learned a lot since then.

00:06:13.680 As for women, I think I'm supposed to say as a women's rights campaigner that women are

00:06:21.820 oppressed under the patriarchy, and therefore they're just trying to struggle to get their

00:06:27.720 place at the table.

00:06:28.760 And I don't think it's that.

00:06:29.960 I think it's currency.

00:06:31.360 And I think the reason women compete in who can be the quickest to give women's rights

00:06:36.360 away is because then they have currency of being these really nice people.

00:06:40.300 And I think women often use psychological warfare and ostracizing and niceness, shall

00:06:49.100 we say, as a strategy to win against other women.

00:06:53.560 So that's why I think women do that.

00:06:56.800 So, well, two things about that.

00:06:59.480 So there is a pattern of antisocial behavior among women that's been well documented in the

00:07:06.700 relevant psychiatric research.

00:07:08.620 And so antisocial men tend to use, to devolve towards physical violence, but antisocial women

00:07:15.900 use gossip, malicious slander, and reputation savaging.

00:07:21.400 And so that's been documented for decades.

00:07:24.840 And that's the female pattern of antisocial behavior.

00:07:27.540 But you tied it into something.

00:07:29.860 You tied it into currency, you know?

00:07:32.540 And so I want to tell you a little story.

00:07:34.340 So I interviewed this very deep religious thinker.

00:07:38.660 His name is Matthew Paggio.

00:07:40.640 And he wrote a book called, what is it, The Sacred?

00:07:43.780 I'll remember it momentarily.

00:07:46.800 It's about Genesis.

00:07:48.620 And I talked to him about the sin of Eve in the story of the Garden of Eden.

00:07:55.200 And it's a sin of pride, right?

00:07:58.240 It leads to the fall.

00:07:59.500 And the sin of pride is that Eve proclaims that it's something like she can even clasp

00:08:06.860 the serpent to her breast, the poisonous serpent.

00:08:09.920 So imagine that it is the case that women are caregivers, and especially caregivers of infants,

00:08:15.900 and that their ability to provide care is one of their true strengths.

00:08:20.620 But it's also a potential source of status.

00:08:24.040 And so a woman who wants to make a false and prideful status claim

00:08:29.180 can claim that her maternal embrace is so all-encompassing

00:08:34.120 that even the serpents can be included.

00:08:38.360 Right now, the next thing, of course, that happens is Adam hearkens to her claim.

00:08:44.960 And I think what happens there is that men will enable women by telling them

00:08:51.600 that their desire to embrace even the poisonous is laudable,

00:08:56.340 and that the social structure, which is what Adam's responsible for, say, in the Genesis story,

00:09:02.320 the social structure can be modified to accommodate to their wish.

00:09:08.160 Of course, that precipitates the fall, all of that.

00:09:10.680 And so you said, the reason I brought this up is because you said your conclusion has been

00:09:16.980 that the women who are defending the indefensible,

00:09:21.000 which would be, let's say, the male claim that femininity, femalehood,

00:09:26.600 is merely subjective identification,

00:09:30.620 that women are claiming to support that because they want to obtain currency.

00:09:34.880 Okay, so why have you become convinced of that, and what exactly do you mean by that?

00:09:38.720 Well, I just think it becomes, I guess, status is part of it.

00:09:43.260 But I think everybody does something for self-serving reasons.

00:09:47.900 And I think by a process of elimination, I just can't think why else a woman would do it.

00:09:54.720 And I've thought about it a lot.

00:09:56.480 You know, I've already tried to think, like, what is in it for someone who says,

00:10:02.420 yeah, your 16-year-old daughter can share a space with a man getting addressed.

00:10:05.740 You know, how else could it be justified besides some sort of self-serving motive?

00:10:11.440 And I think it just comes to currency, that they can maybe pretend

00:10:15.460 that they don't have these feelings, which may just be heaps of cognitive dissonance.

00:10:22.040 But I just don't buy it.

00:10:23.920 I think it's dishonest.

00:10:25.540 I don't buy it that somebody who's experienced any female-only space where men have entered,

00:10:31.040 and most of us women have, and what happens in those moments is we breathe quietly,

00:10:37.560 we wait until the threat is gone, and we understand it.

00:10:40.340 Before I can rationalize it, I understand it as a threat.

00:10:43.460 And I just don't buy that other women don't do that, so they must have self-serving motives.

00:10:48.140 You said, when we first started our discussion, that, you know, several years ago,

00:10:54.120 within the span of a decade, you were a card-carrying member of the Labour Party,

00:10:58.560 and that your political ideology was tilting towards the left.

00:11:03.080 And I suppose the classic leftist rejoinder to what you just said was that,

00:11:07.860 no, you've just developed an unreasonable prejudice on behalf of,

00:11:12.080 that's directed towards the poor, oppressed, marginalized, trans men, let's say.

00:11:18.140 The men who are claiming to be women, and that all that happened to you

00:11:21.620 was that you reached the limits of your tolerance and that your genuine prejudice was revealed,

00:11:26.300 and that you're rationalizing the emergence of that prejudice

00:11:30.280 by gaslighting the women who were genuinely compassionate about the marginalized.

00:11:34.500 And the reason I'm formulating the question like this is because you were or are,

00:11:39.720 I don't know which, on the left politically, and the left historically has been,

00:11:46.220 at least in principle, campaigning for the rights and the inclusion of the dispossessed.

00:11:52.020 And so, look, Kelly, I've gone to Washington several times and talked to Democrats in the House and in the Senate.

00:12:00.660 And I did the same with Robert Kennedy when I interviewed him recently.

00:12:05.880 And I always ask the Democrats that I meet the same question.

00:12:09.860 And that is, when does the left go too far?

00:12:14.140 And I've never received an answer to that question.

00:12:19.260 No, and they ask me at reverse.

00:12:21.200 And I always say, well, I think they go too far when they push for equity

00:12:24.460 because that's equality of outcome, and that's a complete bloody disaster.

00:12:27.960 And their response uniformly is, no, no, no, they just mean equality of opportunity,

00:12:33.440 which they most decidedly don't.

00:12:35.900 But you are or are on the left, and maybe we can delve into that a little bit,

00:12:41.460 but for some reason you appear to be proclaiming and do believe that

00:12:47.080 there's something false about the compassion that's being manifested,

00:12:51.960 at least in this particular case.

00:12:53.620 How do you square that with your original leftist presuppositions?

00:12:58.660 And how do you distinguish genuine compassion for the marginalized and oppressed

00:13:04.160 from whatever it is that you're objecting to now?

00:13:09.080 Well, I think I had a journey, shall we say, in this X-factor world in which we live,

00:13:15.280 where I realized that I was being lied to about this.

00:13:19.140 And then I realized that what underpinned it was a total hatred and dismissive

00:13:25.280 attitudes towards women and our fears and the reality of our lives.

00:13:31.300 And, you know, wider and potentially more important, but for me, I'm a women's rights

00:13:36.280 campaigner, but also a disregard of the truth in favor of a point of view, an ideology,

00:13:42.280 some sort of power that's handed over to these people.

00:13:46.720 So it was at that moment that I then have to really question, because I'd be a fool if not to,

00:13:52.820 why else do I believe the things I believe?

00:13:55.440 And are they true?

00:13:56.720 Do they really exist?

00:13:58.380 And the answer I came up with was categorically, no, they're not.

00:14:02.380 Is it true that the left is less misogynist than the right?

00:14:06.720 Absolutely, categorically not.

00:14:09.640 The trade union movements, like when you look at those in the UK, they didn't really care about

00:14:13.580 women's workers' rights.

00:14:15.360 And I don't mean gender pay gaps or any ethereal kind of concepts that we can discuss in 2023,

00:14:21.460 whether we agree with them or not.

00:14:22.980 And I think you and I are probably closer to agreeing on that it doesn't really exist.

00:14:27.460 Um, but yeah, it just, it just made me think, were the left always like this and I was just

00:14:34.020 stupid and naive or have they really dramatically changed?

00:14:37.960 And I haven't answered that question fully because maybe I just don't want to admit that

00:14:42.100 I've been stupid most of my life.

00:14:44.180 But no, I can't possibly, I don't think, I don't think women right now with this ideology

00:14:49.400 and nobody really standing up for us, I don't think we can place our flag in any political camp.

00:14:55.000 Mm-hmm.

00:14:56.160 Well, you know, I worked for a leftist political party when I was a kid.

00:15:00.220 That was a long time ago, from the time I was 14 to the time I was 17.

00:15:03.980 And the, I got to know the wife of the leader of the socialist party in my home province of Alberta.

00:15:12.780 And I liked her a lot.

00:15:14.100 She was a librarian from our local junior high school.

00:15:17.060 And, uh, me and all the other delinquents used to go out during recess and lunch hour

00:15:21.960 and go hang out in the library and bother Mrs. Notley.

00:15:25.200 And we did that partly because she treated us like adults.

00:15:28.300 And I did it partly because she used to give me things to read.

00:15:31.240 And she gave me a lot of great books to read.

00:15:33.620 And she was the first person who really introduced me to serious literature.

00:15:36.820 And I got to know her and her husband.

00:15:38.440 So that kind of gave me privileged access to the stratospheres of the Labour Party,

00:15:44.460 the Socialist Party, the NDP in Canada.

00:15:47.180 And I met a lot of the leaders.

00:15:49.180 And this was back in 1977, about, uh, 77.

00:15:54.400 So a long time ago.

00:15:55.780 And, uh, you know, I found a lot of them admirable.

00:15:59.440 I thought they were, they were often Labour leader types, you know, union types.

00:16:03.020 And they had done a fair bit to give the working class in Canada a voice.

00:16:10.220 And they emerged out of farmers cooperatives in Saskatchewan.

00:16:14.480 And so that seemed to be like a genuine political movement and a genuine voice

00:16:19.360 for those who were shut out of the political process.

00:16:22.560 The Conservative Party at that time was clearly the party of big business

00:16:26.360 and sort of unashamedly so.

00:16:27.920 And the Liberal Party was in the middle.

00:16:29.780 But, uh, the NDP, they had admirable people in them, you know,

00:16:34.200 but I watched the activists back then and they really bothered me.

00:16:38.320 I thought they were resentful and bitter and whiny and narcissistic.

00:16:43.460 And that was eventually why I stopped working with the NDP.

00:16:48.120 And that was in 1979, I guess.

00:16:50.660 So I would say, I don't think the left has always been like this.

00:16:56.440 You know, I think that the working class needed a political voice.

00:17:00.400 And I think that's still true.

00:17:01.980 Now, whether they can find it on the left or not now, I don't think they can.

00:17:05.920 But I don't think that you were merely blind your entire life

00:17:11.760 and that the left has always been pathological.

00:17:13.980 But I do think that compassion is the best camouflage for narcissistic serpents.

00:17:19.300 And so if the left proclaims itself as the party of the oppressed,

00:17:25.060 then it opens up the door to being invaded by those who will use claims of compassion

00:17:31.120 to put forward their narcissistic, what would you say,

00:17:34.980 clamoring and groping for power.

00:17:37.740 And one of the problems with being on the left is that

00:17:40.600 it's very hard for liberal types to draw boundaries.

00:17:43.740 And so you risk being invaded by the real predators.

00:17:50.320 And I really think in some ways that's what's happened to the left,

00:17:53.140 is that the narcissists have invaded and they now dominate.

00:17:57.960 And this is an age-old story, right?

00:18:00.080 This has been a danger to organizations since the dawn of time.

00:18:06.480 And it's certainly happening now.

00:18:08.260 So I don't think it was a complete existential catastrophe,

00:18:13.420 you know, what you believed.

00:18:15.140 But I do think that that inability to draw distinctions on the left

00:18:19.520 is potentially fatal.

00:18:22.940 So where do you find, how do you conceptualize yourself now?

00:18:28.020 I think I pointed out that if you read your Wikipedia page,

00:18:31.540 then what you are apparently is an anti-transgender rights activist.

00:18:36.100 And that sounds like a pretty damn reprehensible sort of person,

00:18:39.040 because, I mean, here's these poor, marginalized, transgender men, let's say,

00:18:45.040 who are just trying to struggle forward, you know, what would you say,

00:18:48.340 bravely, as President Biden would say,

00:18:51.060 and a world hell-bent on their oppression and genocide.

00:18:54.180 And there you are, you know, opposing their rights.

00:18:57.660 And so what's your, this is a horrible thing to ask,

00:19:02.180 but what's your self-definition?

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00:20:40.580 Oh, I struggle with it on a daily basis.

00:20:47.520 It's so fluid.

00:20:48.480 I'm just an adult human female.

00:20:50.360 I'm a mother.

00:20:51.060 I'm a wife.

00:20:51.860 I'm a subject of the United Kingdom.

00:20:54.940 I'm just a person.

00:20:57.420 But it's just so...

00:20:59.260 I'm just not having it that these men are vulnerable.

00:21:03.240 Like, if you feel vulnerable and you don't want to be,

00:21:05.240 and you genuinely feel that the world hates you so very much,

00:21:09.460 I don't know why you put on women's clothes to leave the house.

00:21:13.600 I mean, it's just...

00:21:14.800 I'm just not having such a nonsensical, silly ideology

00:21:19.020 taking over what my spaces look like and the spaces of my daughter.

00:21:24.020 So I call myself a women's rights activist

00:21:26.560 because I believe that women's language,

00:21:29.160 I mean, so much goes back to that word woman

00:21:33.620 and what it means and who can use it.

00:21:37.080 And we are now debating what sex means in the Equality Act,

00:21:41.860 which is just fundamentally just ridiculous.

00:21:46.540 We know what sex means,

00:21:48.080 and now we're having to re-clarify what it means in law

00:21:51.400 in our Rights Act so that women can have spaces.

00:21:56.660 And for me, the Equality Act is a nonsense anyway.

00:22:00.160 I'll digress slightly on this.

00:22:01.620 But for me, the Equality Act just doesn't make any sense

00:22:05.860 because surely a proportionate reason,

00:22:08.600 and that's one of the things you need

00:22:10.000 to justify a women-only space or a women-only group,

00:22:13.400 is proportionate means.

00:22:14.960 Well, if I say I just want women in my group,

00:22:18.940 then that's proportionate.

00:22:21.060 If I said I just wanted women on my board of a company,

00:22:24.060 maybe not so.

00:22:24.880 But if I say that I just want a social group

00:22:28.160 that's women-only for women,

00:22:30.640 I don't know why I need to justify

00:22:33.020 keeping a man out who says he's a woman.

00:22:35.800 And then it goes back to the GRA,

00:22:37.320 and I'm sure we'll get onto that.

00:22:38.540 But I fundamentally think having a legal fiction

00:22:41.060 in this country is preposterous

00:22:44.460 and has led to all of the fallout we now see.

00:22:48.880 If we were tolerant, we'd just let these men

00:22:52.120 do what they like, call themselves whatever they like,

00:22:54.600 stay out of women's spaces,

00:22:56.400 and just all get on with our days.

00:22:59.060 But we don't.

00:22:59.780 We have to pretend that they are actually women,

00:23:02.080 and I'm not doing it.

00:23:04.040 So there's a lot of issues that you just brought up there.

00:23:09.420 Yeah, sorry.

00:23:09.980 The, well, I would like, if you would,

00:23:13.920 to explain for those who are watching and listening

00:23:16.220 a little bit more about the Equality Act,

00:23:18.160 and then maybe we could turn to this issue of,

00:23:21.280 I think it's a hatred and jealousy of women.

00:23:25.380 It's a hatred, jealousy, and attraction

00:23:27.660 to what women hypothetically have

00:23:30.460 that's part of the, what would you say,

00:23:32.880 nexus of psychopathology

00:23:34.520 that's driving this desire

00:23:36.960 to tread on the grounds of women's rights,

00:23:42.220 to appropriate the domain of femininity.

00:23:45.900 So this is cultural appropriation

00:23:47.720 in its most fundamental sense.

00:23:49.260 I'd like to delve into that a little bit,

00:23:51.100 because, you know, I watched Dylan Mulvaney

00:23:52.560 very carefully,

00:23:53.880 and Dylan Mulvaney makes quite an effective comedian.

00:23:58.160 You know, he's good at parodying women

00:24:00.960 in the same way,

00:24:02.740 in a manner that's akin

00:24:04.280 to what the Monty Python folks used to do,

00:24:06.360 although, because they were,

00:24:07.520 they were, you know, very masculine-looking men,

00:24:10.420 they had to parody,

00:24:11.760 they made themselves into particularly hideous

00:24:13.780 middle-aged women and parodied them.

00:24:16.020 And they were very funny about it.

00:24:17.680 And Dylan Mulvaney is actually quite funny,

00:24:19.940 except that he doesn't know

00:24:21.560 when to stop telling the joke, you know.

00:24:24.160 And there is this element of parody

00:24:26.100 in his behavior

00:24:27.040 that's absolutely paramount.

00:24:28.980 When I first saw him,

00:24:30.000 I thought,

00:24:30.440 there is absolutely no way

00:24:32.580 this guy is serious.

00:24:33.560 He's trolling everyone.

00:24:34.800 He's just,

00:24:35.500 this is just a very elaborate joke.

00:24:37.740 And I thought maybe

00:24:38.540 it had a touch of genius in it,

00:24:39.900 because it was

00:24:41.260 an incredibly elaborate joke.

00:24:43.080 But, you know,

00:24:44.140 he's taken the joke

00:24:45.760 a little too far,

00:24:46.660 and it seems to me

00:24:47.740 to be quite clear

00:24:48.560 that he will shred

00:24:50.620 his connection with reality

00:24:52.600 to elevate himself

00:24:53.880 narcissistically

00:24:54.780 in the public eye.

00:24:56.360 And that means

00:24:57.420 that he's gone too far.

00:24:58.660 And the people

00:24:59.200 who enable him,

00:25:00.900 who are these,

00:25:02.240 what would you say,

00:25:03.040 narcissists of compassion

00:25:04.460 on the left,

00:25:05.260 are doing him

00:25:06.020 absolutely no favors.

00:25:07.520 Because I can't see

00:25:08.280 a good end

00:25:08.820 for Dylan Mulvaney.

00:25:09.980 I can't see

00:25:11.040 how you can go

00:25:11.700 where he's gone

00:25:13.540 and continue.

00:25:15.200 Anyways,

00:25:15.640 let's start with

00:25:16.340 the Equality Act.

00:25:17.200 Will you bring everybody

00:25:18.100 watching and listening

00:25:19.020 up to speed

00:25:19.620 about that?

00:25:21.080 So there are

00:25:21.800 different characteristics.

00:25:23.040 Might be disability,

00:25:24.040 religion,

00:25:24.640 freedom of religion

00:25:25.360 and freedom from religion,

00:25:28.200 sexual orientation,

00:25:30.300 gender assignment.

00:25:32.720 So when that started,

00:25:33.720 that used to be,

00:25:34.540 oh sorry,

00:25:35.060 gender reassignment.

00:25:36.040 So that would,

00:25:36.800 that used to be transsexuals.

00:25:38.260 And what they did

00:25:38.820 is they made it so vague

00:25:39.940 and opaque

00:25:41.060 that they could revise

00:25:42.460 what gender reassignment

00:25:44.000 actually meant.

00:25:44.860 So you could be protected.

00:25:47.100 To what extent,

00:25:48.040 I'm not actually sure,

00:25:49.500 but you can't be

00:25:50.220 discriminated against

00:25:51.320 for having gender

00:25:51.980 reassignment.

00:25:52.700 Well,

00:25:53.840 I think there are

00:25:54.680 points at which

00:25:56.340 it would be inappropriate.

00:25:57.440 For example,

00:25:58.240 we do have bra fitters

00:25:59.640 in the UK

00:26:00.140 who now have got jobs.

00:26:02.940 So men

00:26:03.420 who don't have much surgery,

00:26:05.700 who call themselves women,

00:26:06.640 now are bra fitters

00:26:07.540 in large shops.

00:26:11.060 And you're skeptical

00:26:12.200 of that,

00:26:12.740 I take it?

00:26:14.460 There's no way.

00:26:15.200 Well,

00:26:15.400 look,

00:26:15.860 I'm a prude British,

00:26:17.320 so there's very few

00:26:18.460 chances I would take

00:26:19.940 to go and get

00:26:20.440 a bra fitting anyway.

00:26:21.340 But certainly,

00:26:21.880 if it was a man,

00:26:25.400 a person I would call a man,

00:26:27.280 i.e.

00:26:27.620 an actual man,

00:26:28.820 then I wouldn't do it.

00:26:30.180 And also,

00:26:31.020 I've been,

00:26:31.940 you know,

00:26:32.220 I've got a teenage daughter.

00:26:34.240 You go for a first bra fitting,

00:26:35.840 it's incredibly embarrassing.

00:26:38.220 And to hear a male voice

00:26:39.540 in that space

00:26:40.400 would be horrendous.

00:26:41.980 Because as we know,

00:26:43.260 girls,

00:26:43.580 when they develop through puberty,

00:26:44.740 it's the most embarrassing time

00:26:46.900 and also the time

00:26:48.160 when they most need

00:26:48.820 to fit in with their peers.

00:26:49.960 And so those two things

00:26:51.080 are really hideous anyway.

00:26:54.320 But anyway,

00:26:55.160 I digress.

00:26:55.740 So the Equality Act

00:26:57.060 is a balance

00:26:57.700 of different rights

00:26:59.500 based upon

00:27:00.420 different characteristics.

00:27:02.620 And

00:27:03.140 at the moment,

00:27:05.080 in the

00:27:06.120 Westminster Hall debate

00:27:07.760 yesterday,

00:27:08.200 there was a debate

00:27:10.320 on whether or not

00:27:11.380 the Equality Act,

00:27:12.880 when it talks about sex,

00:27:14.300 even though we've got

00:27:14.920 gender reassignment

00:27:15.720 in the Equality Act,

00:27:16.820 now sex is supposed to,

00:27:18.760 according to people

00:27:19.860 mainly on the left,

00:27:21.300 include men

00:27:22.520 who call themselves women,

00:27:23.900 which then makes

00:27:24.820 the whole thing

00:27:25.560 pretty damn laughable

00:27:27.040 if sex,

00:27:28.280 in our law,

00:27:29.160 in our legal system,

00:27:30.100 actually means

00:27:30.700 someone who says

00:27:31.580 they're a particular sex

00:27:33.760 as opposed to someone

00:27:34.700 who is

00:27:35.320 a particular sex.

00:27:37.180 And I just,

00:27:37.980 I just think

00:27:38.620 this is where we are.

00:27:39.580 We have a gender,

00:27:40.520 for example,

00:27:40.900 we have a Gender Recognition Act,

00:27:44.020 which means

00:27:44.640 that you can change

00:27:45.420 your gender,

00:27:46.540 but there is no such thing

00:27:47.900 as gender

00:27:48.500 throughout most of our laws

00:27:50.500 that actually has

00:27:52.900 any definition.

00:27:54.280 And it's the same

00:27:54.800 in the States,

00:27:55.380 I should imagine

00:27:56.020 it's the same in Canada

00:27:56.880 where they flooded

00:27:57.660 all of our laws

00:27:59.240 that actually are reliant

00:28:00.380 on biological sex.

00:28:01.580 They flooded

00:28:02.000 with the word gender,

00:28:02.960 so therefore

00:28:03.460 it becomes mixed up

00:28:05.160 and then you can pretend

00:28:05.960 all along

00:28:06.780 you just meant people

00:28:07.620 who identify

00:28:08.360 as one sex or another.

00:28:10.420 So,

00:28:11.360 you know,

00:28:11.640 for me,

00:28:11.940 the Equality Act

00:28:12.700 is a little dated now

00:28:15.240 and I think

00:28:15.620 very confusing anyway

00:28:16.620 and I think

00:28:17.280 we need to

00:28:17.940 rip it up

00:28:19.020 and start all over again.

00:28:20.420 Okay,

00:28:20.680 so on the bra fitting question,

00:28:23.360 let's say,

00:28:24.060 so why isn't

00:28:25.440 the proper response

00:28:27.120 to your concerns,

00:28:29.320 well,

00:28:29.620 it's the modern age,

00:28:30.720 we've already dispensed

00:28:32.820 almost all together

00:28:34.180 with men-only spaces,

00:28:36.540 it's now time

00:28:38.340 to do the same

00:28:39.080 to female-only spaces

00:28:40.780 and maybe

00:28:41.620 the right attitude

00:28:43.000 for you

00:28:43.520 and your daughter

00:28:44.120 is to just get over

00:28:45.700 your prudishness

00:28:46.580 and to accept

00:28:47.220 the fact that

00:28:48.020 people who want

00:28:49.760 to do something,

00:28:51.220 including bra fitting,

00:28:52.520 can do it

00:28:53.220 regardless of their

00:28:54.300 sex or their gender.

00:28:55.440 So,

00:28:55.960 why would you

00:28:56.540 appear to reject

00:28:58.020 that proposition

00:28:58.880 and why do you think

00:29:00.980 that,

00:29:01.600 so,

00:29:02.300 two questions,

00:29:03.040 I guess,

00:29:03.280 why do you think

00:29:03.860 it's appropriate

00:29:04.480 for you to reject

00:29:05.480 that claim

00:29:06.740 and for you

00:29:08.660 and on behalf

00:29:09.400 of your daughter,

00:29:10.160 let's say,

00:29:10.920 and then

00:29:11.480 there's a thornier

00:29:12.720 question underneath that

00:29:13.920 which is,

00:29:14.420 well,

00:29:15.180 under what conditions

00:29:16.340 is discrimination,

00:29:17.960 which,

00:29:18.600 by the way,

00:29:19.020 used to mean judgment

00:29:19.940 as well as any

00:29:21.020 number of other things,

00:29:22.740 what are the situations

00:29:23.740 under which

00:29:24.360 discrimination

00:29:25.080 actually becomes

00:29:26.260 not only appropriate

00:29:28.120 but,

00:29:28.640 say,

00:29:28.740 ethically mandated?

00:29:30.180 This is a conversation

00:29:31.100 we haven't had

00:29:31.660 in our culture for,

00:29:32.660 and I would say

00:29:33.380 this is the fault

00:29:34.220 of the left,

00:29:34.840 although the right-wingers

00:29:35.800 have enabled it

00:29:36.480 by being so hapless.

00:29:38.020 Yeah.

00:29:38.460 We haven't had a discussion

00:29:39.540 about what constitutes

00:29:40.520 appropriate discrimination

00:29:41.540 for,

00:29:42.460 you know,

00:29:42.700 since like 1964.

00:29:44.560 It's a very long time.

00:29:45.940 So,

00:29:46.180 first of all,

00:29:46.600 why do you think

00:29:47.180 you're justified

00:29:47.880 in your phobia,

00:29:49.660 there we go,

00:29:50.660 in your phobia

00:29:51.420 about going to

00:29:52.280 have a bra fitting

00:29:53.200 with a man

00:29:53.960 who claims to be a woman?

00:29:56.080 Well,

00:29:56.900 I think if society

00:29:58.500 had moved on

00:29:59.160 to a point

00:29:59.640 where women and men

00:30:00.660 weren't uncomfortable

00:30:01.620 naked around each other,

00:30:03.460 if there was no such thing

00:30:04.360 as sexual assault,

00:30:05.240 if there was no such thing

00:30:06.100 as like low-level sexual assault,

00:30:07.600 which is voyeurism

00:30:08.560 and indecent exposure,

00:30:10.120 which is an opportunist crime,

00:30:12.020 and we know that

00:30:12.680 most of the people

00:30:13.660 that would do that

00:30:14.240 will be men,

00:30:15.140 and most of the victims

00:30:15.940 will be women and children.

00:30:17.540 So,

00:30:17.860 I think in that regard,

00:30:19.180 if that had changed

00:30:20.140 and that no longer existed,

00:30:22.580 then maybe

00:30:23.280 I would be open

00:30:24.120 to listening.

00:30:25.360 But we know

00:30:25.920 that men and women

00:30:26.680 don't particularly like

00:30:27.860 to be undressed

00:30:28.720 in front of each other,

00:30:29.520 and if you're in the UK,

00:30:30.740 that includes everybody,

00:30:32.260 whatever sex they are.

00:30:34.020 We're relatively prudish,

00:30:35.480 I'm quite happy to be so.

00:30:37.420 But, you know,

00:30:38.360 I just think

00:30:39.200 we have naked bodies

00:30:40.580 and we have boundaries

00:30:41.600 around those sort of

00:30:42.620 naked bodies

00:30:43.280 and in situations

00:30:44.820 where women feel

00:30:45.620 more uncomfortable

00:30:46.300 and in a state of undress.

00:30:48.180 And I know that boys

00:30:49.240 feel like that too

00:30:50.320 around the opposite sex

00:30:52.880 at certain stages

00:30:53.700 of their lives,

00:30:54.400 if not all of their lives.

00:30:56.240 And so I think

00:30:56.960 that's why,

00:30:58.580 I mean,

00:30:58.880 we sort of joke

00:31:00.140 about this question,

00:31:01.220 but we both know

00:31:02.860 that that question is asked.

00:31:04.420 It's a genuine

00:31:05.740 sort of question

00:31:07.560 from the left

00:31:08.140 or from trans activists

00:31:09.760 when you speak about this.

00:31:11.400 And my first question

00:31:14.100 used to be,

00:31:15.040 does my 11-year-old daughter

00:31:16.640 have the right

00:31:18.000 to be in a female-only space

00:31:19.400 and not see an adult penis?

00:31:20.780 And I would ask that

00:31:21.540 in female-only labor

00:31:23.140 women groups online.

00:31:25.080 And I was told,

00:31:26.060 no, she's transphobic,

00:31:27.440 you're raising a bigot,

00:31:28.420 why is your daughter

00:31:29.020 staring at genitals,

00:31:30.100 is she a pervert?

00:31:31.760 You know,

00:31:32.020 and so I think

00:31:34.260 at that point

00:31:34.720 you realize

00:31:35.160 it's a quasi-religious cult

00:31:36.900 and it's dogmatic

00:31:38.160 and it doesn't make any sense

00:31:39.920 and it's indefensible

00:31:41.200 because they don't have arguments,

00:31:42.560 they have mantras.

00:31:43.820 Well, and you know,

00:31:45.360 that's also a good place

00:31:46.900 to observe as well

00:31:47.760 that that issue of currency

00:31:48.960 that you just described

00:31:50.240 also rears its hideous head

00:31:52.180 at that point.

00:31:52.920 It's like,

00:31:53.720 it's a competition

00:31:54.560 between the women

00:31:55.360 that you're talking about

00:31:56.200 to see who can virtue signal

00:31:58.060 the loudest

00:31:58.700 about their loving,

00:31:59.760 kindness and tolerance.

00:32:00.740 And that becomes

00:32:02.160 monstrous and devouring

00:32:03.300 when taken beyond

00:32:04.140 a certain point.

00:32:04.880 That's certainly

00:32:05.320 what Freud observed,

00:32:06.320 for example,

00:32:06.860 when he wrote extensively

00:32:07.940 about the Oedipal complex

00:32:09.160 because what we're seeing

00:32:10.740 in the culture right now

00:32:11.800 is the Oedipal complex

00:32:13.440 gone mad on a scale

00:32:15.460 that would,

00:32:16.120 I'm sure,

00:32:16.600 is making Freud

00:32:17.300 rotate in his coffin

00:32:18.480 at about 150,

00:32:19.880 you know,

00:32:20.760 150 spins per second.

00:32:23.220 No one could have

00:32:23.880 possibly envisioned

00:32:24.800 that this onslaught

00:32:27.360 of tyrannical compassion

00:32:29.120 would devour

00:32:29.760 the whole culture.

00:32:31.140 You know,

00:32:31.640 it's,

00:32:32.000 what would you say,

00:32:32.740 the onset of a new

00:32:33.780 kind of totalitarianism

00:32:35.200 that's predicated

00:32:35.980 in an antisocial

00:32:37.880 feminine ethos.

00:32:39.540 So,

00:32:40.000 so here's some things

00:32:41.180 that you might find interesting.

00:32:43.680 So,

00:32:44.300 of course,

00:32:44.680 girls hit puberty

00:32:45.520 earlier than boys.

00:32:47.500 And so,

00:32:48.660 and it's in some ways

00:32:50.240 more dramatic.

00:32:51.020 And I would say

00:32:52.000 it's more dramatic

00:32:52.760 because women

00:32:54.100 are clearly more vulnerable

00:32:55.320 on the sexual front.

00:32:56.580 And the reason

00:32:57.420 they're more vulnerable

00:32:58.320 is manifold.

00:33:00.180 First of all,

00:33:00.820 they're physically smaller.

00:33:02.380 And so,

00:33:02.640 that's a problem.

00:33:03.820 And second,

00:33:05.100 smaller and weaker,

00:33:06.900 especially in the upper body,

00:33:08.380 right?

00:33:08.600 So,

00:33:08.840 they're not that good

00:33:09.600 at fending off

00:33:10.480 like full-scale

00:33:11.420 physical assaults,

00:33:12.580 let's say,

00:33:13.020 from a large man.

00:33:14.440 And second,

00:33:15.820 they're sexually vulnerable

00:33:16.960 because a sexual mishap

00:33:18.580 for a woman

00:33:19.120 can result in pregnancy,

00:33:20.980 obviously,

00:33:21.600 and the dangers

00:33:22.180 that are associated

00:33:22.980 with that.

00:33:23.660 And social shame

00:33:25.040 that's associated

00:33:25.860 with inadvertent pregnancy

00:33:28.120 and then

00:33:28.600 that lengthy period

00:33:29.700 of dependence

00:33:30.300 that's associated

00:33:31.180 with the child.

00:33:31.920 And those are all

00:33:32.540 real costs.

00:33:34.200 And so,

00:33:34.660 what happens

00:33:35.300 biologically to girls

00:33:36.640 is that

00:33:37.300 when they hit puberty,

00:33:39.080 two things happen.

00:33:40.320 Their levels

00:33:40.800 of negative emotion

00:33:41.780 increase

00:33:42.740 because there's no difference

00:33:44.300 between negative emotion,

00:33:45.660 baseline negative emotion

00:33:46.760 for boys and girls.

00:33:48.040 But at puberty,

00:33:48.920 the negative emotion

00:33:49.660 of women increases

00:33:50.580 and it never returns

00:33:52.560 to,

00:33:54.040 what would you say,

00:33:54.780 parity with men.

00:33:56.200 It's raised up

00:33:57.340 and it's permanently raised up.

00:33:59.040 This is why women

00:33:59.860 are four to five times

00:34:01.440 more likely,

00:34:02.320 something like that,

00:34:03.120 to suffer from

00:34:03.980 negative emotion

00:34:05.140 related disorders,

00:34:06.800 including anxiety

00:34:08.040 and depression.

00:34:08.860 And the reason for that,

00:34:10.500 I think,

00:34:10.920 is because

00:34:11.480 if you're vulnerable

00:34:13.800 on the sexual front,

00:34:15.020 which is the case

00:34:15.800 for women,

00:34:16.420 then you should be

00:34:17.200 more sensitive

00:34:17.920 to threat

00:34:18.480 because the world's

00:34:19.380 more dangerous.

00:34:21.360 And now,

00:34:21.740 the other thing

00:34:22.260 that happens,

00:34:23.360 so women's anxiety

00:34:25.260 and negative emotion

00:34:26.240 also tends to take

00:34:28.400 the form

00:34:29.020 of bodily self-consciousness.

00:34:31.560 And that's more true

00:34:32.740 for women

00:34:33.180 than for men.

00:34:34.400 And I think it's because

00:34:35.360 the body,

00:34:36.580 that's one way

00:34:37.140 of thinking about it,

00:34:37.860 is the locus

00:34:38.700 of vulnerability

00:34:39.300 for women

00:34:40.000 for the reasons

00:34:40.680 that we just outlined.

00:34:42.060 And it's also because

00:34:43.040 women are evaluated

00:34:44.660 in terms of their status

00:34:45.980 more harshly

00:34:47.040 on the basis

00:34:48.320 of their physical

00:34:49.040 appearance

00:34:49.480 than men are.

00:34:50.520 Men are evaluated

00:34:51.360 more harshly

00:34:52.040 on the basis

00:34:52.600 of their,

00:34:53.620 let's say,

00:34:54.200 socioeconomic status,

00:34:55.860 like way more harshly.

00:34:57.500 But so there's

00:34:58.040 some equivalence

00:34:58.900 of harshness,

00:34:59.720 let's say,

00:35:00.080 across the sexes,

00:35:01.000 but it's differentiated.

00:35:02.720 And so your daughter

00:35:04.400 has every reason

00:35:06.160 to be leery

00:35:07.720 and wary

00:35:08.660 in any situation

00:35:10.100 that she might

00:35:10.740 be exploited.

00:35:12.000 And the reason

00:35:12.520 for that is,

00:35:13.760 well,

00:35:14.080 she might be exploited.

00:35:15.860 And it's not trivial.

00:35:17.360 I mean,

00:35:18.120 I don't think

00:35:18.740 there's any less

00:35:19.500 trivial form

00:35:20.340 of exploitation

00:35:21.260 than exploitation

00:35:22.580 on the sexual front,

00:35:23.840 especially for women.

00:35:25.480 You know,

00:35:25.720 is rape worse

00:35:27.520 than death?

00:35:28.980 Well,

00:35:30.440 it's arguably worse.

00:35:34.800 No,

00:35:35.040 and it's not taken

00:35:35.820 with requisite seriousness.

00:35:37.280 And so I think

00:35:38.420 you have every leg,

00:35:39.140 you and your daughter

00:35:39.760 have every leg

00:35:40.360 to stand on

00:35:41.040 when you say,

00:35:41.680 well,

00:35:42.680 it isn't obvious

00:35:43.400 to me that

00:35:44.100 it's compassion

00:35:45.500 allowing these

00:35:46.500 unbelievably narcissistic

00:35:48.700 and self-centered men

00:35:49.780 into women's spaces.

00:35:51.360 It's like,

00:35:51.680 what the hell

00:35:52.120 are they doing?

00:35:52.840 If a man wants

00:35:53.940 to turn himself

00:35:54.520 into a woman

00:35:55.120 and then just

00:35:55.660 ride off into the sunset

00:35:56.860 and not bother anyone

00:35:57.820 for the rest of his life,

00:35:58.880 it's like,

00:35:59.580 you know,

00:35:59.920 go to hell

00:36:00.400 in a handbasket

00:36:01.140 your own way there,

00:36:02.080 buddy.

00:36:02.820 But when you start

00:36:03.480 proclaiming that

00:36:04.260 you should have access

00:36:05.040 to, let's say,

00:36:06.180 barely pubescent girls

00:36:07.720 and to hell

00:36:08.520 with their feelings

00:36:09.400 because you're all

00:36:10.180 that matters,

00:36:10.780 I think you've gone

00:36:11.780 a little bit too far

00:36:12.580 down the narcissistic

00:36:13.620 path myself.

00:36:14.780 Yeah.

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00:37:22.200 Well, we've always had

00:37:26.000 terrible people, right?

00:37:27.060 People have always existed

00:37:28.340 that want to do bad things

00:37:29.620 and want to impose

00:37:30.880 themselves on others.

00:37:32.700 We just now have

00:37:33.660 a state-sanctioned

00:37:35.500 like narcissists' charter

00:37:37.660 where it means

00:37:38.560 that those men

00:37:39.260 can go into women's spaces

00:37:41.180 and celebrate it

00:37:42.640 for doing so

00:37:43.140 because they're so stunning

00:37:44.140 and brave

00:37:45.320 for getting undressed

00:37:46.360 in front of teenage girls.

00:37:48.300 It's like it's

00:37:50.260 if it wasn't so serious

00:37:51.860 it would be amusing

00:37:52.900 that it just doesn't

00:37:55.260 make sense

00:37:55.820 and coherent adults

00:37:57.800 like sensible,

00:37:59.500 intelligent adults

00:38:00.580 with sensible jobs

00:38:02.380 will actually talk like this

00:38:04.660 will say that

00:38:05.460 what's the harm

00:38:06.960 of a man?

00:38:08.660 You mean like the President

00:38:09.820 of the United States?

00:38:11.040 I presume you've been

00:38:11.940 watching what happened

00:38:12.920 in the last week

00:38:15.080 which again falls under

00:38:16.800 that heading of

00:38:19.480 if it wasn't true

00:38:20.820 and dangerous

00:38:21.380 it would be so funny

00:38:22.360 that it's unbearable category

00:38:24.260 and so the White House

00:38:27.000 invited this

00:38:27.800 you know

00:38:28.220 absolutely narcissistic

00:38:29.880 exhibitionist

00:38:30.680 trans

00:38:31.280 I never know

00:38:32.800 trans man, trans woman

00:38:34.140 I can never get

00:38:34.660 the damn terminology right

00:38:35.680 a man who's deluded himself

00:38:37.780 into believing

00:38:39.280 that he's a woman

00:38:40.480 and who's insisting

00:38:41.560 that everyone else

00:38:42.400 participate in his lie

00:38:43.780 how about that?

00:38:45.080 And what did he do?

00:38:46.280 He stood up

00:38:47.160 on the White House lawn

00:38:48.220 with one of his idiot friends

00:38:50.040 who had had a double mastectomy

00:38:51.420 and she showed off

00:38:53.440 the remnants of her chest

00:38:54.900 proudly

00:38:55.720 and he showed off

00:38:56.840 his silicon breasts

00:38:57.840 and you know

00:38:58.740 that was pretty damn comical

00:39:00.020 given that it was

00:39:00.680 the White House

00:39:01.200 but what was even more comical

00:39:02.700 was the White House response

00:39:04.100 because Biden had proclaimed

00:39:06.020 the very same day

00:39:06.900 that there's almost nothing

00:39:08.360 braver than a trans man

00:39:10.080 which you know

00:39:11.000 is really quite the bloody claim

00:39:12.500 and then claimed

00:39:13.840 retrospectively

00:39:15.460 to be shocked

00:39:16.300 and appalled

00:39:16.800 by the fact

00:39:17.420 that the people celebrated

00:39:18.980 for doing exactly

00:39:19.900 the things they did

00:39:20.760 on the White House law

00:39:21.600 and actually came out

00:39:22.400 and did them

00:39:22.980 and so yeah

00:39:24.240 it's an evil parody

00:39:25.420 you know

00:39:25.840 and I think there is

00:39:27.000 an evil parody element

00:39:28.320 to totalitarianism

00:39:30.360 that needs to be called out

00:39:32.360 and noted

00:39:32.860 because everybody

00:39:34.180 in a totalitarian system

00:39:35.820 is an evil clown

00:39:36.920 playing this demented game

00:39:39.460 that's a parody of real life

00:39:40.900 and there is an element

00:39:41.680 of unbelievably black humor

00:39:43.580 in it

00:39:43.860 and I see that

00:39:44.860 in the behavior

00:39:45.400 of people like Dylan Mulvaney

00:39:46.840 right

00:39:47.740 because he's obviously

00:39:48.840 parodying women

00:39:49.800 and I think he does it

00:39:51.420 because he's insanely jealous

00:39:53.640 of what he thinks

00:39:54.420 they have

00:39:55.040 right

00:39:55.320 it's the unearned privilege

00:39:56.720 of being a woman

00:39:57.700 to be elevated

00:39:59.000 onto a kind of pedestal

00:40:00.740 and to

00:40:01.520 and to what

00:40:02.660 to have the world

00:40:03.500 at your feet

00:40:04.120 because of what

00:40:04.940 your beauty

00:40:05.580 because that seems to be

00:40:06.540 what he's chasing

00:40:07.300 and all the

00:40:09.380 rights and privileges

00:40:10.880 you accrue

00:40:11.540 merely because

00:40:13.160 you're feminine

00:40:13.840 and so it's the deluded

00:40:15.600 vision

00:40:17.100 of resentful men

00:40:19.140 who think that

00:40:20.240 those

00:40:20.720 of the opposite sex

00:40:22.420 have an elevated position

00:40:24.320 in creation

00:40:25.060 right

00:40:25.380 have all the rights

00:40:26.200 and none of the responsibilities

00:40:27.540 have all the beauty

00:40:28.920 and none of the ugliness

00:40:30.400 and they're jealous of that

00:40:32.200 and they can't have it

00:40:33.040 and as a consequence of that

00:40:34.140 I think they hate women

00:40:35.140 yeah

00:40:35.820 something like that

00:40:37.280 I definitely think

00:40:38.600 they hate women

00:40:39.240 I wonder with Dylan

00:40:40.760 whether or not

00:40:41.460 this is not just a vehicle

00:40:42.540 for narcissism

00:40:43.380 as opposed to

00:40:44.240 I wonder if the rest of it

00:40:45.820 is a bit of a sideshow

00:40:47.120 for him

00:40:47.620 being feminine

00:40:48.820 being jealous of women

00:40:50.040 you know

00:40:51.220 he said some pretty dreadful things

00:40:52.500 but I wonder if he just

00:40:53.360 hated women always

00:40:54.380 and this

00:40:55.280 you know

00:40:55.920 this just happens to

00:40:56.860 to coincide

00:40:58.160 but I think he's driven

00:40:59.620 by extreme narcissism

00:41:01.660 and wanting to be famous

00:41:03.020 probably more than

00:41:04.560 he's driven by

00:41:05.580 wanting to be

00:41:06.440 a woman

00:41:07.000 which I don't actually

00:41:08.520 think he does

00:41:09.320 I think

00:41:10.200 yeah I think

00:41:10.660 I think

00:41:11.140 well I think that's right

00:41:12.680 although I also think

00:41:13.880 watching him

00:41:14.600 like

00:41:14.820 he is very feminine

00:41:16.540 in his mannerisms

00:41:17.700 and

00:41:18.140 this is where the

00:41:20.060 distinction between

00:41:21.160 sex and gender

00:41:22.080 becomes complex

00:41:22.960 right

00:41:23.340 because I don't believe

00:41:24.060 that there's any such thing

00:41:25.000 as gender

00:41:25.640 me too

00:41:27.080 I think the people

00:41:28.380 who came up

00:41:28.940 with the notion of gender

00:41:30.240 to call them

00:41:31.480 appallingly

00:41:33.180 underqualified

00:41:34.040 and incoherent

00:41:35.080 academics

00:41:35.600 is to say

00:41:36.360 almost nothing

00:41:37.280 about how unqualified

00:41:38.440 and incoherent

00:41:39.360 they are

00:41:39.840 however

00:41:40.640 people do

00:41:42.040 vary temperamentally

00:41:43.300 and there is

00:41:44.360 a relatively

00:41:45.660 large proportion

00:41:46.700 of men

00:41:47.740 let's say

00:41:48.460 who have

00:41:49.540 temperaments

00:41:50.620 that on average

00:41:51.560 are more like

00:41:52.560 female temperaments

00:41:53.860 than male temperaments

00:41:54.820 and

00:41:55.000 the reverse

00:41:56.080 is also true

00:41:56.980 because there's

00:41:57.560 wide temperamental

00:41:58.560 variability among

00:41:59.580 human beings

00:42:00.720 and so

00:42:01.780 there are lots

00:42:02.740 of feminine men

00:42:03.660 and masculine women

00:42:04.860 now that doesn't mean

00:42:06.060 they're born in the wrong

00:42:07.040 damn body

00:42:07.720 it just means

00:42:08.420 that the range

00:42:09.380 of temperament

00:42:10.080 within the sexes

00:42:11.040 is actually quite broad

00:42:12.440 and I think

00:42:13.520 Dylan

00:42:13.840 is a

00:42:14.860 relatively feminine

00:42:16.240 in his temperament

00:42:18.260 and I think

00:42:19.160 that probably

00:42:19.720 is confusing

00:42:20.500 for him

00:42:20.940 especially because

00:42:21.640 he's also very high

00:42:22.560 in openness

00:42:23.020 which is

00:42:23.560 creativity dimension

00:42:24.920 right

00:42:25.160 I mean

00:42:25.400 he's been an actor

00:42:26.540 forever

00:42:26.960 and he still is one

00:42:28.020 and actors

00:42:28.960 and creative people

00:42:29.760 do have relatively

00:42:30.880 fluid identities

00:42:31.900 because

00:42:32.480 being creative

00:42:33.940 and having a fluid

00:42:34.660 identity

00:42:35.120 are the same thing

00:42:36.200 now

00:42:37.160 if you combine that

00:42:38.460 with his narcissism

00:42:40.080 which is that desire

00:42:41.180 for fame

00:42:42.180 that untrammeled

00:42:43.560 and

00:42:43.740 what would you call it

00:42:45.180 it's

00:42:45.860 viciously

00:42:46.720 unidventional

00:42:47.340 desire for fame

00:42:48.580 you do get the kind

00:42:49.380 of behavior

00:42:49.800 that he's manifesting

00:42:51.360 which is

00:42:51.800 like he

00:42:52.420 it looks like

00:42:53.100 he'll sacrifice himself

00:42:54.720 on the altar

00:42:55.840 of his own fame

00:42:56.840 but that's

00:42:59.120 that's also

00:42:59.560 not that uncommon

00:43:00.440 it's certainly

00:43:00.920 what school shooters

00:43:01.780 do for example

00:43:02.700 right

00:43:03.060 they'll

00:43:03.580 they'll commit suicide

00:43:04.780 to

00:43:05.180 to get a front page

00:43:06.500 headline

00:43:06.960 and

00:43:07.900 you know

00:43:08.380 that's

00:43:08.960 that's deeply rooted

00:43:11.880 in the

00:43:12.500 motivational structure

00:43:13.960 of men

00:43:14.400 because of course

00:43:15.180 men are judged

00:43:16.680 on the basis

00:43:17.320 of their social status

00:43:18.440 and so they're highly

00:43:19.540 motivated

00:43:21.580 to attain

00:43:22.220 that status

00:43:22.940 you know

00:43:23.900 by fair means

00:43:24.680 or foul

00:43:25.120 come hell

00:43:26.200 or high water

00:43:26.940 no I just wanted

00:43:28.580 to make a comment

00:43:29.140 about femininity

00:43:29.900 because I find it

00:43:30.520 really interesting

00:43:31.120 when men are

00:43:31.740 accused

00:43:32.440 if you like

00:43:33.340 of being feminine

00:43:34.200 because I think

00:43:35.840 so-called effeminate men

00:43:38.160 take up a lot of space

00:43:39.840 a lot of public space

00:43:41.440 and I don't mean

00:43:42.000 like man spreading

00:43:42.820 I mean

00:43:43.860 like literally

00:43:45.420 volume wise

00:43:46.700 what they're willing

00:43:47.980 to do

00:43:48.600 how they enter a room

00:43:49.900 it doesn't strike me

00:43:51.360 as particularly feminine

00:43:52.560 if we look at

00:43:53.320 stereotypical feminine

00:43:54.520 which is make

00:43:55.220 make yourself small

00:43:56.280 stay quiet

00:43:56.980 be submissive

00:43:57.900 I don't think

00:43:59.000 flamboyant effeminate men

00:44:00.460 are

00:44:01.420 remotely feminine

00:44:02.940 I don't know

00:44:03.540 what else to call it

00:44:04.500 certainly not masculine

00:44:05.620 but it is

00:44:06.880 it just doesn't seem

00:44:09.080 to for me

00:44:09.760 neatly fit

00:44:10.600 into what is feminine

00:44:11.940 but

00:44:14.120 yeah

00:44:15.420 yeah well I think

00:44:16.140 maybe there's

00:44:16.680 that's a good

00:44:17.420 that's a good

00:44:18.020 distinction

00:44:18.560 well I think

00:44:19.300 archetypally

00:44:20.300 there's sort of

00:44:20.860 two classes

00:44:21.540 of feminine

00:44:22.200 right

00:44:22.560 you could think

00:44:23.440 about it as

00:44:24.000 the virgin

00:44:24.440 and the whore

00:44:25.160 and so

00:44:27.000 and there's

00:44:27.720 an uneasy

00:44:28.120 tension between

00:44:28.940 those two

00:44:29.460 obviously

00:44:30.000 and

00:44:31.320 the

00:44:32.200 kind of

00:44:32.840 feminine

00:44:33.320 behavior

00:44:33.820 that you're

00:44:34.520 claiming to be

00:44:35.360 not feminine

00:44:36.060 is more on

00:44:36.740 the whore side

00:44:37.400 of things

00:44:37.880 and it's

00:44:38.700 histrionic

00:44:39.380 and demonstrative

00:44:40.160 and

00:44:41.240 you know

00:44:41.860 you can see

00:44:42.460 elements of it

00:44:43.120 you know

00:44:43.360 you can see

00:44:43.940 elements of that

00:44:44.760 in the

00:44:45.320 in the

00:44:46.980 icons

00:44:47.740 that gay men

00:44:48.820 for example

00:44:49.440 choose to

00:44:50.400 idolize

00:44:51.520 on the

00:44:51.980 feminine

00:44:52.280 side

00:44:52.820 you know

00:44:53.520 and they

00:44:53.760 would be

00:44:54.260 they would

00:44:55.080 be people

00:44:55.600 like

00:44:56.120 Marilyn Monroe

00:44:56.980 for example

00:44:57.620 who's an

00:44:58.040 icon among

00:44:58.600 the gay

00:44:58.920 community

00:44:59.360 and that's

00:45:00.320 because

00:45:00.640 her

00:45:02.040 femininity

00:45:03.060 is

00:45:03.420 I don't want

00:45:05.500 to be unfair

00:45:06.080 to Marilyn Monroe

00:45:06.800 because that's

00:45:07.380 that's not

00:45:07.780 my point

00:45:08.280 but

00:45:08.520 she's

00:45:09.620 her persona

00:45:11.040 was very

00:45:11.640 glamorous

00:45:12.160 and demonstrative

00:45:13.080 and when

00:45:14.480 that gets

00:45:15.060 pathologized

00:45:16.100 the psychiatric

00:45:17.220 community

00:45:17.740 the psychological

00:45:18.380 community

00:45:18.940 describes that

00:45:19.620 as histrionic

00:45:20.520 and it's

00:45:21.300 certainly the

00:45:21.720 case that

00:45:22.240 the behavior

00:45:23.300 and that's

00:45:23.940 from hysteria

00:45:24.860 by the way

00:45:25.540 which meant

00:45:26.260 wandering womb

00:45:27.160 and wandering

00:45:27.720 uterus to begin

00:45:28.600 with and

00:45:29.060 back in the

00:45:30.000 dark Victorian

00:45:30.980 times

00:45:31.360 sometimes

00:45:31.840 histrionic

00:45:32.480 women were

00:45:32.980 cured by

00:45:34.220 hysterectomy

00:45:36.440 which cured

00:45:37.600 their hysteria

00:45:38.720 right

00:45:39.360 so that's

00:45:40.060 all

00:45:40.280 interestingly

00:45:40.920 and bizarrely

00:45:42.060 intertwined

00:45:42.660 but the

00:45:43.600 femininity

00:45:44.520 that the men

00:45:45.180 that you're

00:45:45.560 describing flaunt

00:45:46.480 isn't the

00:45:47.240 reserved

00:45:47.840 chaste

00:45:48.620 end of

00:45:49.260 the

00:45:49.460 femininity

00:45:50.080 distribution

00:45:50.820 it's the

00:45:51.540 more

00:45:51.840 histrionic

00:45:52.980 demonstrative

00:45:53.760 attention-seeking

00:45:55.140 femme fatale

00:45:56.460 end of the

00:45:57.060 distribution

00:45:57.540 like your

00:45:58.300 typical trans

00:45:59.080 man like

00:45:59.620 Dylan

00:46:00.040 dresses up

00:46:01.360 like a

00:46:01.700 movie star

00:46:02.240 not like

00:46:02.840 you know

00:46:03.360 not like

00:46:03.800 a nun

00:46:04.200 unless he's

00:46:05.300 parodying

00:46:05.840 nuns

00:46:06.760 yes he does

00:46:08.420 yeah you're

00:46:08.780 right

00:46:09.000 so let's

00:46:10.300 talk about

00:46:10.760 what happened

00:46:11.280 to you

00:46:11.680 in your

00:46:12.420 public

00:46:13.040 speeches

00:46:13.480 so what

00:46:14.220 are you

00:46:14.500 what are

00:46:14.980 what is it

00:46:15.820 that you're

00:46:16.220 what are

00:46:16.760 you trying

00:46:17.160 to accomplish

00:46:17.760 with your

00:46:18.300 public

00:46:18.920 your public

00:46:21.280 communications

00:46:21.940 and

00:46:22.960 let's

00:46:24.460 would you

00:46:25.320 tell a few

00:46:25.760 stories about

00:46:26.360 what's happened

00:46:26.860 to you

00:46:27.160 so for

00:46:27.680 example

00:46:28.060 what happened

00:46:29.520 to you

00:46:29.700 in New

00:46:29.920 Zealand

00:46:30.200 became

00:46:30.960 worldwide

00:46:31.400 news

00:46:31.960 if you'd

00:46:33.660 like we

00:46:33.960 could start

00:46:34.340 with that

00:46:34.720 or maybe

00:46:35.040 you could

00:46:35.440 maybe you

00:46:36.360 could trace

00:46:36.780 the development

00:46:37.400 of your

00:46:38.020 of your

00:46:39.040 public

00:46:39.340 speaking

00:46:39.920 so that

00:46:40.720 this must

00:46:41.220 have all

00:46:41.500 come as

00:46:41.800 somewhat of

00:46:42.140 a shock

00:46:42.520 to you

00:46:42.920 and produced

00:46:43.760 a lot of

00:46:44.200 changes

00:46:44.500 in your

00:46:44.840 life

00:46:45.140 maybe we'll

00:46:45.720 do it

00:46:45.940 that way

00:46:46.340 when did

00:46:47.120 you start

00:46:47.540 speaking

00:46:48.000 publicly

00:46:48.560 so after

00:46:51.040 the billboard

00:46:51.760 got taken

00:46:52.680 down

00:46:53.120 I was sort

00:46:54.940 of my

00:46:55.440 banning

00:46:56.000 from this

00:46:56.500 public square

00:46:57.340 the modern

00:46:57.820 public square

00:46:58.520 i.e.

00:46:58.960 Twitter

00:46:59.180 Facebook

00:46:59.680 etc

00:47:00.120 that began

00:47:01.120 so I was

00:47:01.720 banned

00:47:02.200 from Twitter

00:47:02.720 for nearly

00:47:03.220 five years

00:47:03.920 so my

00:47:04.940 voice in

00:47:05.680 the public

00:47:06.040 square

00:47:06.340 just

00:47:06.720 disappeared

00:47:07.320 I'm not

00:47:08.160 even allowed

00:47:08.620 to sign

00:47:09.100 a petition

00:47:09.560 on change.org

00:47:10.600 like I'm

00:47:11.720 so banned

00:47:12.820 people won't

00:47:15.340 make things

00:47:15.820 for me

00:47:16.240 anyway

00:47:16.560 so I was

00:47:17.400 banned from

00:47:17.820 everywhere

00:47:18.080 so I was

00:47:18.460 like well

00:47:18.800 let's go

00:47:19.420 back to

00:47:19.960 the actual

00:47:20.820 public square

00:47:21.700 and make

00:47:23.200 real life

00:47:23.640 connections

00:47:24.040 with people

00:47:24.580 and so I

00:47:25.620 started doing

00:47:26.100 that in

00:47:26.340 about 2019

00:47:27.160 and we

00:47:28.660 started doing

00:47:29.200 speeches at

00:47:29.860 Speakers Corner

00:47:30.460 and inviting

00:47:31.100 women to

00:47:31.520 come and

00:47:31.780 speak

00:47:32.120 and then

00:47:33.480 women all

00:47:33.960 over the

00:47:34.240 country

00:47:34.640 couldn't get

00:47:35.720 to those

00:47:36.180 events

00:47:36.660 I also

00:47:37.880 did one

00:47:38.240 in lockdown

00:47:38.660 so we

00:47:40.360 did a

00:47:40.600 speech

00:47:40.840 we went

00:47:41.600 to Leeds

00:47:42.300 which is

00:47:42.820 in the north

00:47:43.140 of England

00:47:43.480 during lockdown

00:47:44.100 but because

00:47:45.480 we weren't

00:47:46.000 marching about

00:47:46.960 Black Lives Matter

00:47:48.020 we could

00:47:48.580 catch COVID

00:47:49.300 so we all

00:47:50.620 got arrested

00:47:51.120 for trying

00:47:51.760 to speak

00:47:52.120 in the public

00:47:53.240 and then I

00:47:55.040 was in a

00:47:55.420 cell that

00:47:55.820 was covered

00:47:56.220 in sort

00:47:56.580 of body

00:47:56.900 fluids

00:47:57.240 so I

00:47:58.660 think I

00:47:58.960 was more

00:47:59.420 at risk

00:48:00.080 of catching

00:48:00.520 COVID

00:48:00.880 in that

00:48:01.340 cell

00:48:01.720 but I

00:48:02.000 got arrested

00:48:02.420 live

00:48:02.840 on my

00:48:04.140 live stream

00:48:04.860 but it

00:48:06.600 just about

00:48:07.340 it's

00:48:08.140 twofold

00:48:08.760 or maybe

00:48:09.820 more than

00:48:10.320 that

00:48:10.740 there's

00:48:11.440 one it

00:48:12.780 means that

00:48:13.220 women get

00:48:13.600 to speak

00:48:14.000 in public

00:48:14.480 about their

00:48:15.180 fears

00:48:15.760 for their

00:48:16.960 children

00:48:17.360 for the

00:48:17.860 education

00:48:18.220 system

00:48:18.600 for the

00:48:18.920 state

00:48:19.260 specifically

00:48:21.720 to do

00:48:22.260 with this

00:48:22.860 quasi-religious

00:48:24.140 cult of

00:48:24.820 transgenderism

00:48:25.760 so that

00:48:26.600 will be

00:48:26.780 one element

00:48:27.300 of it

00:48:27.740 so free

00:48:28.480 speech

00:48:28.820 is a

00:48:29.080 really

00:48:29.220 important

00:48:29.560 part

00:48:29.900 of that

00:48:30.280 enabling

00:48:31.360 women

00:48:31.640 to come

00:48:32.000 along

00:48:32.360 who don't

00:48:33.120 have to

00:48:33.400 buy a

00:48:33.720 ticket

00:48:33.940 to watch

00:48:34.480 a few

00:48:34.760 special

00:48:35.180 women

00:48:35.460 on a

00:48:35.780 platform

00:48:36.200 and a

00:48:36.520 panel

00:48:36.780 speak

00:48:37.160 about

00:48:37.380 their

00:48:37.600 lives

00:48:37.860 but

00:48:38.060 ordinary

00:48:38.880 women

00:48:39.240 speaking

00:48:39.640 about

00:48:39.940 their

00:48:40.160 lives

00:48:40.500 and we

00:48:41.180 live stream

00:48:41.660 it

00:48:41.780 which means

00:48:42.380 other women

00:48:43.360 maybe in

00:48:43.900 very similar

00:48:44.560 situations

00:48:45.140 will hear

00:48:45.600 their story

00:48:46.240 and it

00:48:46.460 will resonate

00:48:46.940 and it's

00:48:47.920 about waking

00:48:48.420 everybody up

00:48:49.200 to what the

00:48:50.000 dangers are

00:48:50.580 of this

00:48:51.080 cult

00:48:51.860 and the

00:48:53.460 and the

00:48:53.480 other thing

00:48:53.820 is that

00:48:54.160 we

00:48:54.480 we basically

00:48:55.920 through

00:48:56.480 through bait

00:48:57.720 and perfect

00:48:59.100 fishing

00:48:59.560 conditions

00:49:00.560 we bring

00:49:01.840 out the

00:49:02.200 misogyny

00:49:02.840 and we

00:49:03.700 we conjure

00:49:04.780 we basically

00:49:06.680 play the

00:49:07.580 opposition

00:49:08.040 who come

00:49:10.340 along and

00:49:11.100 object violently

00:49:11.960 and aggressively

00:49:12.560 to women

00:49:13.240 speaking in

00:49:13.880 public

00:49:14.240 and so then

00:49:15.080 we show

00:49:15.420 everybody just

00:49:16.060 exactly what's

00:49:16.640 going on

00:49:17.180 so you

00:49:18.140 started that

00:49:18.680 at Speaker's

00:49:19.260 Corner

00:49:19.520 and you

00:49:20.440 you've

00:49:20.960 traveled around

00:49:21.460 the world

00:49:21.840 now

00:49:22.180 holding these

00:49:23.300 events

00:49:23.660 what countries

00:49:24.500 have you

00:49:24.800 gone to

00:49:25.260 well we

00:49:26.340 did the

00:49:26.620 US

00:49:26.960 so I did

00:49:27.320 about 10

00:49:27.780 dates in

00:49:28.180 the US

00:49:28.440 I couldn't

00:49:28.980 go to

00:49:29.300 Portland

00:49:29.620 you won't

00:49:30.020 be surprised

00:49:30.740 because there

00:49:31.380 were incredible

00:49:32.220 death threats

00:49:32.880 in Portland

00:49:33.300 so we didn't

00:49:34.460 go there

00:49:34.940 we went

00:49:35.860 to San

00:49:36.140 Francisco

00:49:36.640 I

00:49:38.600 objected

00:49:39.940 to a

00:49:40.500 senator

00:49:40.800 who brought

00:49:41.420 in the

00:49:41.800 bill

00:49:42.120 SB132

00:49:43.200 which is

00:49:43.600 about men

00:49:44.060 and women

00:49:44.320 was that

00:49:44.660 Scott

00:49:45.140 Wiener

00:49:46.000 yes it

00:49:46.920 was

00:49:47.240 what a

00:49:47.600 oh yeah

00:49:48.420 he's real

00:49:48.840 fun

00:49:49.120 man

00:49:49.540 yeah

00:49:50.020 perfect

00:49:51.820 so

00:49:52.920 Chicago

00:49:54.700 and I

00:49:56.080 made a

00:49:56.480 documentary

00:49:56.820 about it

00:49:57.560 and what

00:49:58.580 I learned

00:49:59.400 in America

00:49:59.880 is you

00:50:00.500 may have

00:50:00.840 the right

00:50:01.300 to free

00:50:03.180 speech

00:50:03.540 but you

00:50:03.900 do not

00:50:04.300 have the

00:50:04.660 right to

00:50:04.960 be heard

00:50:05.440 so we

00:50:06.640 got protested

00:50:07.720 as long as

00:50:08.900 people didn't

00:50:09.400 touch our

00:50:09.800 faces

00:50:10.280 or touch

00:50:11.460 us

00:50:11.880 in front

00:50:12.900 of the

00:50:13.100 police

00:50:13.400 they were

00:50:13.760 allowed to

00:50:14.220 just be

00:50:14.820 this close

00:50:15.600 to our

00:50:16.140 faces

00:50:16.520 banging

00:50:16.980 making

00:50:17.820 noise

00:50:18.180 so we

00:50:18.480 couldn't

00:50:18.700 be heard

00:50:19.080 so that

00:50:20.160 was very

00:50:20.520 interesting

00:50:20.960 and then I

00:50:22.420 thought well I'll

00:50:23.340 go to Australia

00:50:24.300 and New Zealand

00:50:24.900 they're relatively

00:50:25.960 lovely places to

00:50:27.360 visit

00:50:27.580 and I went to

00:50:29.200 Australia and I

00:50:29.920 got defamed by

00:50:31.220 one of the

00:50:32.000 politicians who

00:50:33.000 read my

00:50:33.440 Wikipedia page

00:50:34.500 didn't fact check

00:50:35.300 a single word of

00:50:36.100 it and put it

00:50:37.820 out on the

00:50:38.180 television which

00:50:39.260 then made my

00:50:39.780 life very

00:50:41.080 vulnerable

00:50:41.480 and I went to

00:50:42.480 New Zealand

00:50:42.840 and I was

00:50:43.340 mobbed

00:50:44.320 by the

00:50:45.800 estimate

00:50:46.160 is about

00:50:46.720 sort of

00:50:47.000 three to

00:50:47.340 five thousand

00:50:48.020 people who

00:50:48.960 really did

00:50:50.240 want something

00:50:51.280 terrible to

00:50:52.160 happen to me

00:50:52.840 and I

00:50:53.720 did

00:50:53.840 that's a lot

00:50:54.400 of people

00:50:54.800 in New Zealand

00:50:55.500 yeah

00:50:56.200 it's nearly

00:50:57.740 half the

00:50:58.160 country I'm

00:50:58.700 told

00:50:59.000 and so

00:51:01.800 they

00:51:02.320 came to

00:51:03.580 protest

00:51:04.360 and it was

00:51:05.220 very aggressive

00:51:05.720 and then

00:51:06.340 I had to

00:51:07.360 go into

00:51:07.600 police protection

00:51:08.300 until I could

00:51:09.200 leave the

00:51:09.480 country

00:51:09.800 and even

00:51:10.600 in the

00:51:11.060 police station

00:51:11.740 it was only

00:51:12.920 on a need

00:51:13.320 to know

00:51:13.560 basis

00:51:13.920 so even

00:51:14.400 police officers

00:51:15.140 didn't know

00:51:15.740 I was in

00:51:16.180 the police

00:51:16.460 station

00:51:16.860 to keep

00:51:17.720 me safe

00:51:18.220 what was

00:51:20.120 that like

00:51:20.560 for you

00:51:20.940 in New

00:51:21.240 Zealand

00:51:21.480 I mean

00:51:21.780 I watched

00:51:22.260 the footage

00:51:22.720 and it

00:51:23.640 was quite

00:51:24.040 the show

00:51:25.260 I mean

00:51:25.640 what did

00:51:27.000 that do

00:51:27.400 to you

00:51:27.800 and why

00:51:29.020 haven't

00:51:29.600 you stopped

00:51:30.400 I mean

00:51:31.940 you could

00:51:32.220 just go back

00:51:32.740 to your

00:51:32.980 life in

00:51:33.640 principle

00:51:34.040 maybe you

00:51:34.600 can't

00:51:34.940 maybe you're

00:51:35.280 too far

00:51:35.660 into this

00:51:36.100 now so

00:51:36.560 that you

00:51:37.320 know your

00:51:37.600 life will

00:51:37.980 never be

00:51:38.340 what it

00:51:38.640 was

00:51:38.880 that's

00:51:39.220 possible

00:51:39.620 but in

00:51:40.440 principle

00:51:40.780 you could

00:51:41.360 stop saying

00:51:42.600 the things

00:51:43.040 that you're

00:51:43.360 saying

00:51:43.660 and you

00:51:44.180 could stop

00:51:44.680 exposing yourself

00:51:45.600 to this

00:51:46.100 pretty high

00:51:47.140 level of

00:51:47.600 public threat

00:51:48.280 I mean

00:51:48.540 I've been

00:51:48.940 in nasty

00:51:49.780 nasty

00:51:50.180 demonstrations

00:51:50.900 and they're

00:51:51.720 not exactly

00:51:52.400 fun

00:51:52.860 especially

00:51:53.520 when people

00:51:54.100 are you

00:51:54.980 know six

00:51:55.480 inches from

00:51:56.020 your face

00:51:56.500 and screaming

00:51:57.160 madly away

00:51:58.000 and I'm

00:51:59.100 always afraid

00:51:59.600 I'm going

00:51:59.960 to do

00:52:00.280 something

00:52:00.740 that I

00:52:02.720 would regret

00:52:03.340 in a

00:52:03.740 situation

00:52:04.180 like that

00:52:04.660 I mean

00:52:04.920 I have

00:52:05.180 security

00:52:05.540 people

00:52:05.940 and part

00:52:06.340 of the

00:52:06.520 reason

00:52:06.680 for that

00:52:07.000 is so

00:52:07.260 they don't

00:52:07.660 let me

00:52:08.060 do anything

00:52:08.580 I'll regret

00:52:09.200 when someone

00:52:09.760 is screaming

00:52:10.480 madly six

00:52:11.420 inches from

00:52:11.920 my face

00:52:12.440 or using

00:52:13.360 an air horn

00:52:14.080 you know

00:52:14.940 to shut

00:52:16.160 me down

00:52:16.600 but really

00:52:17.040 so that

00:52:17.540 they're sadistic

00:52:18.560 the little

00:52:18.940 sadistic devil

00:52:19.920 that they've

00:52:20.420 allowed to

00:52:20.860 dwell inside

00:52:21.440 them can

00:52:21.920 what would you

00:52:22.880 say

00:52:23.160 delight in the

00:52:24.420 fact that

00:52:24.840 they're

00:52:25.460 potentially

00:52:26.360 deafening

00:52:26.960 someone

00:52:27.420 and that's

00:52:28.460 happened

00:52:28.720 multiple times

00:52:29.460 but I mean

00:52:29.940 that was a lot

00:52:30.860 of people

00:52:31.220 who are after

00:52:31.820 you and

00:52:32.360 that was a

00:52:33.720 pretty

00:52:33.900 tense

00:52:35.180 situation

00:52:35.780 to say the

00:52:36.360 least

00:52:36.640 so what

00:52:37.780 did that

00:52:38.120 do to

00:52:38.400 you

00:52:38.580 psychologically

00:52:39.180 and why

00:52:40.320 are you

00:52:40.780 continuing

00:52:41.480 to speak

00:52:43.740 out

00:52:44.160 let's say

00:52:44.680 I don't

00:52:45.520 know

00:52:45.660 maybe I'm

00:52:46.100 a sociopath

00:52:46.640 because it

00:52:47.180 didn't actually

00:52:47.920 you know

00:52:48.980 people say

00:52:49.400 how are you

00:52:49.980 recovering

00:52:50.420 are you

00:52:51.420 okay

00:52:51.720 and in

00:52:53.520 those moments

00:52:54.060 I just put

00:52:54.540 one foot

00:52:54.940 in front

00:52:55.300 of the

00:52:55.560 other

00:52:55.720 I think

00:52:56.060 you do

00:52:56.480 when you're

00:52:56.940 in moments

00:52:57.620 like that

00:52:57.960 you focus

00:52:58.780 on the

00:52:59.120 things

00:52:59.360 that you

00:52:59.600 can

00:52:59.860 control

00:53:00.360 and for

00:53:01.220 me it

00:53:01.480 was about

00:53:01.880 stepping

00:53:02.200 forward

00:53:02.520 and not

00:53:02.820 letting

00:53:03.080 anybody

00:53:03.420 fall

00:53:03.700 over

00:53:04.020 so

00:53:04.440 not

00:53:05.240 letting

00:53:05.440 the

00:53:05.580 person

00:53:05.820 in

00:53:06.280 front

00:53:06.440 of

00:53:06.580 me

00:53:06.720 when

00:53:06.900 there

00:53:07.000 was a

00:53:07.200 bench

00:53:07.440 coming

00:53:07.700 up

00:53:07.920 fall

00:53:08.140 over

00:53:08.320 the

00:53:08.460 bench

00:53:08.760 because

00:53:09.040 I

00:53:09.200 just

00:53:09.400 felt

00:53:09.620 that

00:53:09.800 we

00:53:10.000 would

00:53:10.200 be

00:53:11.040 stomped

00:53:11.520 and

00:53:11.700 probably

00:53:12.140 killed

00:53:12.520 if we

00:53:12.940 hit

00:53:13.160 the

00:53:13.280 floor

00:53:13.540 but I

00:53:15.420 say a lot

00:53:16.100 on my

00:53:16.520 channel

00:53:17.100 like if

00:53:17.580 not

00:53:17.840 you

00:53:18.720 then who

00:53:19.320 and it's

00:53:20.300 me

00:53:20.680 you know

00:53:22.040 in this

00:53:22.420 entire

00:53:23.000 movement

00:53:23.860 to be

00:53:25.500 rather

00:53:25.760 immodest

00:53:26.300 I probably

00:53:27.100 am the

00:53:27.500 most known

00:53:28.140 female

00:53:29.840 in this

00:53:31.360 women's rights

00:53:32.080 movement

00:53:32.440 not in the

00:53:32.900 broader

00:53:33.800 free speech

00:53:34.580 movement

00:53:34.960 but in

00:53:35.340 this

00:53:35.500 women's

00:53:35.860 rights

00:53:36.060 movement

00:53:36.440 and

00:53:37.660 I

00:53:38.460 am

00:53:38.720 really

00:53:38.940 lucky

00:53:39.220 I

00:53:39.480 don't

00:53:39.760 have

00:53:39.980 an

00:53:40.100 employer

00:53:40.440 I'm

00:53:41.980 self-funded

00:53:42.700 I sell

00:53:43.600 merchandise

00:53:44.080 in order

00:53:44.820 for me

00:53:45.440 to do

00:53:45.740 these

00:53:45.980 things

00:53:46.240 I now

00:53:46.620 need

00:53:47.020 two

00:53:48.600 sort of

00:53:49.580 very

00:53:50.100 expensive

00:53:50.660 security

00:53:51.660 whenever I

00:53:52.960 go and

00:53:53.200 do a

00:53:53.380 public

00:53:53.600 event

00:53:53.980 because I

00:53:54.820 can't be

00:53:55.140 certain

00:53:55.380 that I'm

00:53:55.760 going to

00:53:55.920 be

00:53:56.260 okay

00:53:56.780 and we

00:53:58.120 have

00:53:58.300 sort of

00:53:58.540 exit

00:53:58.820 strategies

00:53:59.320 and plans

00:53:59.980 but

00:54:00.300 yeah I

00:54:01.540 just

00:54:01.720 you know

00:54:02.920 there's a

00:54:03.140 bit of

00:54:03.340 me

00:54:03.440 that thinks

00:54:03.780 how dare

00:54:04.860 they

00:54:05.180 who do

00:54:05.980 they think

00:54:06.300 they are

00:54:06.780 why would

00:54:07.380 I stop

00:54:07.960 there's

00:54:09.840 girls in

00:54:11.120 the United

00:54:11.420 States of

00:54:11.820 America

00:54:12.080 age 13

00:54:12.680 having their

00:54:13.160 breasts removed

00:54:13.740 probably dozens

00:54:14.520 today

00:54:14.960 why would I

00:54:16.120 stop

00:54:16.560 I'm an

00:54:18.880 atheist

00:54:19.240 but I would

00:54:20.200 say that if

00:54:20.900 anything was

00:54:21.440 going to convince

00:54:22.780 me that there

00:54:23.400 was a devil

00:54:24.500 it would be

00:54:25.740 this

00:54:26.120 it's just

00:54:27.140 plain evil

00:54:28.080 yeah well

00:54:28.340 lots of

00:54:28.740 lots of

00:54:28.760 people

00:54:29.040 lots of

00:54:29.660 people

00:54:29.920 come to

00:54:30.420 God

00:54:30.700 through

00:54:30.960 contact

00:54:31.380 with

00:54:31.660 the

00:54:31.820 devil

00:54:32.100 that's

00:54:33.200 for

00:54:33.380 sure

00:54:33.660 yeah well

00:54:34.400 you know

00:54:35.260 the thing

00:54:35.660 is

00:54:35.900 once you

00:54:37.440 have

00:54:38.160 encountered

00:54:38.780 malevolence

00:54:39.660 you start

00:54:41.380 to understand

00:54:41.960 the reality

00:54:42.520 of evil

00:54:43.040 and once

00:54:44.700 you start

00:54:45.200 to understand

00:54:45.700 the reality

00:54:46.180 of evil

00:54:46.600 you're

00:54:47.360 compelled

00:54:47.840 by logical

00:54:48.720 necessity

00:54:49.260 to posit

00:54:49.860 the reality

00:54:51.240 of good

00:54:51.880 you know

00:54:52.680 and God

00:54:53.160 has been

00:54:53.500 defined

00:54:53.940 for a very

00:54:54.940 long time

00:54:55.500 as the

00:54:56.600 pinnacle

00:54:56.960 of what

00:54:57.400 constitutes

00:54:58.020 good

00:54:58.460 and if

00:54:59.480 you start

00:54:59.840 to believe

00:55:00.260 in radical

00:55:00.800 evil

00:55:01.200 well

00:55:01.640 you start

00:55:02.580 to have

00:55:02.900 to posit

00:55:03.360 that its

00:55:03.800 opposite

00:55:04.160 exists

00:55:04.880 right

00:55:05.420 and so

00:55:05.920 that's an

00:55:07.160 interesting

00:55:07.580 you might

00:55:08.100 say that's

00:55:08.540 a very

00:55:08.760 interesting

00:55:09.180 road to

00:55:09.640 walk down

00:55:10.160 and you're

00:55:11.040 trying to

00:55:11.420 figure out

00:55:11.920 in part

00:55:12.540 you know

00:55:13.520 what's your

00:55:14.180 moral obligation

00:55:15.160 under such

00:55:15.840 circumstances

00:55:16.480 and you

00:55:17.480 alluded to

00:55:18.220 the fact

00:55:18.620 that you

00:55:18.980 think that

00:55:19.480 somebody has

00:55:20.160 to speak

00:55:21.360 for people

00:55:21.960 let's say

00:55:22.440 like Chloe

00:55:22.980 Cole

00:55:23.320 who was

00:55:23.860 I think

00:55:24.400 she had

00:55:24.700 a double

00:55:24.980 mastectomy

00:55:25.620 when she

00:55:26.000 was 15

00:55:26.660 and the

00:55:27.640 wounds

00:55:27.860 never healed

00:55:28.460 properly

00:55:28.940 surprise

00:55:29.400 surprise

00:55:29.820 because you

00:55:30.900 know it's

00:55:31.260 butchery

00:55:31.700 and not

00:55:32.080 surgery

00:55:32.480 and but

00:55:33.600 you know

00:55:33.840 you also

00:55:34.740 alluded to

00:55:35.480 the fact

00:55:35.860 that you

00:55:36.140 think in

00:55:36.540 some ways

00:55:36.940 that it's

00:55:37.280 self-evident

00:55:37.780 that people

00:55:38.300 should stand

00:55:38.840 up against

00:55:39.280 this because

00:55:39.900 well look

00:55:40.800 at what's

00:55:41.200 right in

00:55:41.520 front of

00:55:41.800 you folks

00:55:42.340 but most

00:55:43.600 people don't

00:55:44.380 and you're

00:55:45.180 pilloried

00:55:45.660 quite roundly

00:55:46.500 I mean

00:55:47.060 your Wikipedia

00:55:47.640 page is

00:55:48.240 actually quite

00:55:48.920 a work of

00:55:49.360 art because

00:55:49.880 you definitely

00:55:50.720 come across

00:55:51.360 as quite

00:55:52.220 the reprehensible

00:55:53.000 creature

00:55:53.520 on that

00:55:55.000 page

00:55:55.420 and you know

00:55:55.840 that's an

00:55:56.280 example of

00:55:56.760 exactly how

00:55:57.320 you're

00:55:57.540 pilloried and

00:55:58.060 painted by

00:55:58.520 the radicals

00:55:59.100 on the left

00:55:59.660 and you know

00:56:01.280 one of the

00:56:02.700 interesting issues

00:56:04.420 here is

00:56:04.980 well just

00:56:05.700 exactly what

00:56:06.340 it is that

00:56:06.860 what is it

00:56:07.620 that you're

00:56:08.000 fighting

00:56:08.360 you know

00:56:09.700 I read the

00:56:10.320 other day

00:56:10.780 this is a very

00:56:11.460 interesting paper

00:56:12.260 there's about

00:56:12.740 10 papers

00:56:13.440 now

00:56:13.800 that are

00:56:15.620 looking at

00:56:16.400 the

00:56:17.020 what would

00:56:18.000 you say

00:56:18.300 the nature

00:56:18.940 and

00:56:19.500 the

00:56:21.480 psychological

00:56:22.460 traits

00:56:24.880 associated

00:56:26.620 the nature

00:56:27.240 of left-wing

00:56:27.840 authoritarianism

00:56:28.800 and the

00:56:29.140 psychological

00:56:29.620 traits that

00:56:30.300 are associated

00:56:30.920 with it

00:56:31.480 and so

00:56:33.100 some of the

00:56:33.880 latest research

00:56:34.620 shows very

00:56:35.240 clearly that

00:56:36.100 malignant

00:56:37.320 narcissism

00:56:38.200 psychopathy

00:56:39.100 machiavellianism

00:56:40.260 and sadism

00:56:41.320 are very

00:56:41.980 very good

00:56:42.460 predictors of

00:56:43.580 left-wing

00:56:43.960 authoritarianism

00:56:44.880 and left-wing

00:56:46.160 authoritarianism

00:56:47.080 seems to be

00:56:47.680 a pastiche

00:56:48.500 of sort of

00:56:49.060 progressive

00:56:49.580 left-wing

00:56:50.320 political views

00:56:51.780 which would

00:56:52.680 include the

00:56:53.620 expansion of

00:56:54.320 rights and

00:56:54.720 this kind of

00:56:55.240 compassion that

00:56:56.200 perhaps originally

00:56:57.260 attracted you to

00:56:58.200 the left

00:56:58.580 you know

00:56:59.120 years ago

00:56:59.700 but also the

00:57:00.760 insistence that

00:57:01.900 all of that

00:57:02.760 can be

00:57:03.220 could and

00:57:03.980 should be

00:57:04.500 imposed by

00:57:05.180 force

00:57:05.640 and through

00:57:07.080 the means of

00:57:07.680 compulsion

00:57:08.180 so it's the

00:57:09.200 aggregate

00:57:10.100 of those

00:57:10.540 two things

00:57:11.060 and the

00:57:12.120 people who

00:57:12.720 hold those

00:57:13.720 viewpoints

00:57:14.240 are remarkably

00:57:16.600 disproportionately

00:57:17.580 likely to be

00:57:18.860 sadistic

00:57:20.400 psychopathic

00:57:21.260 machiavellian

00:57:21.980 narcissists

00:57:22.860 and so you

00:57:24.040 know you might

00:57:24.480 ask yourself

00:57:25.120 are you engaged

00:57:26.060 in a political

00:57:26.600 fight or are you

00:57:27.420 just engaged

00:57:28.260 in the age

00:57:29.040 old

00:57:29.480 what would you

00:57:30.580 say

00:57:30.900 requirement of

00:57:32.280 women to

00:57:33.060 put the

00:57:34.360 serpent under

00:57:35.020 their heel

00:57:35.580 right you know

00:57:37.320 that's what God

00:57:38.020 calls upon women

00:57:38.940 to do at the

00:57:39.600 end of the

00:57:39.980 story the

00:57:40.680 Adam and Eve

00:57:41.080 story in

00:57:41.560 Genesis right

00:57:42.340 is to bruise

00:57:44.000 the head of

00:57:44.440 the serpent

00:57:44.840 with your

00:57:45.360 heel

00:57:45.660 there's this

00:57:46.720 great image

00:57:47.280 of Mary

00:57:47.840 that's a

00:57:48.340 renaissance

00:57:48.680 image

00:57:49.280 it was very

00:57:50.440 common

00:57:51.200 renaissance

00:57:51.640 image

00:57:52.180 and it's

00:57:53.620 an attempt

00:57:54.040 to lay

00:57:55.300 out the

00:57:55.780 symbolic

00:57:56.220 image of

00:57:56.900 the divine

00:57:57.360 feminine

00:57:57.840 and so what

00:57:58.840 you see

00:57:59.180 is Mary

00:57:59.780 who's the

00:58:01.240 mother of

00:58:02.260 the savior

00:58:02.820 the eternal

00:58:03.360 mother of

00:58:03.840 the savior

00:58:04.300 the mother

00:58:04.720 of the hero

00:58:05.320 let's say

00:58:05.880 and she

00:58:06.900 has

00:58:07.240 like a

00:58:08.640 crown

00:58:08.920 of stars

00:58:09.600 12 stars

00:58:10.460 around her

00:58:10.920 head

00:58:11.140 and that

00:58:11.740 means that

00:58:12.160 her head

00:58:12.460 is in the

00:58:12.960 stars

00:58:13.380 and her

00:58:14.840 foot is on

00:58:15.600 the head

00:58:15.980 of a serpent

00:58:16.560 very common

00:58:17.880 motif

00:58:18.420 and what

00:58:20.280 that does

00:58:20.840 mean is that

00:58:21.480 if you

00:58:21.900 aim for the

00:58:23.140 highest aim

00:58:24.240 possible

00:58:24.880 you will

00:58:26.240 simultaneously

00:58:26.960 put your

00:58:27.640 foot on the

00:58:28.360 head of the

00:58:28.820 serpent

00:58:29.100 and that

00:58:30.040 that's actually

00:58:30.700 your

00:58:31.540 what would you

00:58:32.440 say that's

00:58:32.920 your divine

00:58:33.480 obligation as a

00:58:34.620 female

00:58:35.020 you know that

00:58:36.780 and women of

00:58:37.560 course forever

00:58:38.280 have protected

00:58:39.300 the vulnerable

00:58:39.860 from the real

00:58:40.540 serpents

00:58:41.140 you know and

00:58:42.500 in our

00:58:42.980 mammalian

00:58:43.540 heritage

00:58:44.160 going back

00:58:45.240 60 million

00:58:45.900 years

00:58:46.360 that often

00:58:47.320 meant

00:58:47.740 what would you

00:58:50.120 say doing

00:58:50.580 everything possible

00:58:51.460 to stop your

00:58:52.120 children from

00:58:52.740 being eaten

00:58:53.400 right well

00:58:54.860 there's there's

00:58:55.580 being eaten in

00:58:56.340 the real world

00:58:57.040 concretely as

00:58:58.600 a consequence of

00:58:59.380 exposure to

00:59:00.060 genuine predators

00:59:01.620 reptiles and

00:59:03.100 otherwise but

00:59:03.720 there's also

00:59:04.240 all sorts of

00:59:04.880 being eaten that

00:59:05.660 your children

00:59:06.100 can face on

00:59:07.540 the abstract

00:59:07.960 front and

00:59:09.100 so well these

00:59:11.340 are all what

00:59:12.000 would you say

00:59:12.560 religious ideas

00:59:13.800 lurking beneath

00:59:14.560 the surface of

00:59:15.460 this strange

00:59:16.540 political situation

00:59:18.840 that we find

00:59:19.640 ourselves in so

00:59:21.180 you feel a moral

00:59:21.820 obligation to do

00:59:22.760 this and tell me

00:59:25.760 again when that

00:59:26.360 started to emerge

00:59:27.400 in 2015 when we

00:59:30.400 elected a

00:59:30.940 conservative

00:59:31.340 government because

00:59:32.040 I don't think

00:59:33.160 many of us

00:59:33.780 because I was

00:59:34.360 in the left

00:59:34.820 so I had no

00:59:35.580 idea what was

00:59:36.840 going on outside

00:59:37.680 and I didn't

00:59:39.400 know that we

00:59:39.860 were going to

00:59:40.140 elect a

00:59:40.860 conservative

00:59:41.260 government and

00:59:41.880 we did and

00:59:42.580 so in 2015

00:59:43.840 and then you

00:59:45.680 know I wrote

00:59:46.400 a letter called

00:59:48.360 grieving the

00:59:48.840 left when I

00:59:49.540 was in 2016

00:59:50.640 about you know

00:59:52.420 I just I

00:59:53.040 couldn't tolerate

00:59:53.840 being part of

00:59:55.100 something and

00:59:56.380 even now women

00:59:57.340 that are on the

00:59:57.980 left trying to

00:59:58.740 fight this from

01:00:00.180 inside they

01:00:02.600 still haven't

01:00:03.480 gone on that

01:00:04.380 sort of discovery

01:00:05.260 of what else

01:00:06.220 am I what else

01:00:07.400 is wrong with

01:00:08.680 my assumptions

01:00:09.260 so I think

01:00:10.580 that's you know

01:00:13.000 I think about

01:00:13.940 Chloe Cole and

01:00:15.800 girls like her

01:00:16.940 and I think

01:00:18.180 overwhelmingly the

01:00:19.800 thing I think is

01:00:21.400 the greatest harm

01:00:22.240 is that they have

01:00:23.720 themselves to blame

01:00:24.600 now I don't

01:00:25.280 really think they

01:00:25.920 do because they're

01:00:27.280 children and they

01:00:27.960 can't consent and

01:00:28.960 normally in

01:00:29.660 situations we would

01:00:30.980 say that children

01:00:31.540 aren't to blame for

01:00:32.600 things that happen

01:00:33.260 to them like the

01:00:34.500 medical mutilation of

01:00:35.820 their bodies but

01:00:37.380 she must have to

01:00:39.040 wrestle with that

01:00:39.740 they all must when

01:00:40.900 they come to the

01:00:42.060 decision that what

01:00:43.700 they've done to

01:00:44.780 themselves is wrong

01:00:45.740 and they must

01:00:47.000 definitely wear some

01:00:48.800 of that blame and

01:00:49.460 I just can't

01:00:50.720 well if you're

01:00:51.600 if you're a lying

01:00:52.940 therapist let's

01:00:54.320 say and your

01:00:55.280 goal as a lying

01:00:56.280 therapist is to

01:00:57.260 elevate your own

01:00:58.360 moral standing in

01:01:00.560 your own eyes even

01:01:02.960 at the cost of

01:01:03.820 your clients then

01:01:05.660 you enable their

01:01:06.540 darkest motivations

01:01:07.640 and so and you do

01:01:10.280 that under the

01:01:10.840 guise of compassion

01:01:11.700 and so Chloe told

01:01:12.760 me when I

01:01:13.240 interviewed her that

01:01:14.320 when she was

01:01:16.480 starting to go

01:01:17.720 through puberty

01:01:18.360 she was a real

01:01:19.840 admirer of the

01:01:22.420 Kardashian girl with

01:01:24.820 her you know

01:01:25.960 exaggerated

01:01:26.820 hypersexualized

01:01:28.740 female hourglass

01:01:30.240 figure and I'm

01:01:32.300 not critiquing that

01:01:33.360 by the way I'm

01:01:34.600 saying that Chloe

01:01:36.000 had adopted that

01:01:37.020 as an ideal and

01:01:39.020 she became convinced

01:01:40.860 and I don't think

01:01:41.480 she's ever told

01:01:42.180 anyone this she

01:01:42.960 might have she

01:01:43.480 certainly didn't

01:01:44.100 tell her demented

01:01:45.080 idiot lying

01:01:46.020 therapists who

01:01:46.940 enabled her her

01:01:48.560 worst impulses she

01:01:50.960 decided and this was

01:01:52.060 all part of you

01:01:53.080 might say prepubescent

01:01:54.540 fantasy that she

01:01:57.260 wasn't going to

01:01:58.040 make a very good

01:01:59.060 woman because she

01:02:00.760 realized rightly

01:02:02.740 wrongly when she

01:02:04.380 started to go

01:02:04.920 through puberty and

01:02:05.660 that happened fairly

01:02:06.420 early that she was

01:02:07.620 likely to have a

01:02:08.480 comparatively boyish

01:02:09.500 figure now I mean

01:02:10.580 compared to

01:02:11.580 Kardashian virtually

01:02:14.260 all women have a

01:02:15.140 boyish figure so you

01:02:16.260 know you could say

01:02:17.180 that her standard of

01:02:18.160 comparison was not

01:02:19.380 precisely wisely

01:02:20.660 chosen but you

01:02:21.460 could understand why

01:02:22.220 she might have done

01:02:22.800 it and she decided

01:02:24.080 that well she was

01:02:25.360 never going to be a

01:02:26.040 very good woman so

01:02:26.920 maybe she could she

01:02:28.400 could do better as a

01:02:29.300 boy you know and

01:02:30.720 there's a there's a

01:02:31.860 temptation in that

01:02:32.960 right and and that

01:02:34.620 board bears on this

01:02:35.860 issue of moral

01:02:36.760 culpability is she

01:02:38.180 was toying with

01:02:39.420 irresponsible ideas

01:02:40.820 right they were

01:02:42.220 dwelling they were

01:02:43.500 they were attempting

01:02:44.420 to dwell within her

01:02:45.500 that's a good way of

01:02:46.260 thinking about it now

01:02:47.020 a good therapist would

01:02:48.120 have listened to her

01:02:49.420 so hard that he

01:02:51.540 would have elicited

01:02:52.300 that realm of

01:02:53.760 fantasy let's say

01:02:55.300 and then walked her

01:02:56.440 through it you know

01:02:57.400 because the right

01:02:57.920 discussion is well

01:02:59.740 why did you pick

01:03:00.460 Kardashian as your

01:03:01.740 as your target for

01:03:03.620 femininity and isn't

01:03:04.720 it the case that

01:03:05.480 there are an immense

01:03:06.900 variety of female

01:03:08.400 forms of beauty like

01:03:09.620 Audrey Hepburn wasn't

01:03:11.420 Kardashian you know

01:03:13.440 she looked she had

01:03:14.680 that gammon I think

01:03:15.660 that's what they call

01:03:16.460 it look which is more

01:03:17.440 waif-like and and in

01:03:18.760 some ways more boyish

01:03:19.960 and there was no

01:03:21.040 reason for Khloe to

01:03:22.200 assume that the only

01:03:23.080 acceptable female adult

01:03:24.640 human female form was

01:03:26.120 that exaggerated

01:03:28.020 hourglass femininity

01:03:30.900 characterized by

01:03:31.820 Kardashian and that

01:03:33.060 should have been

01:03:33.480 delved into and but

01:03:35.080 she got her to call

01:03:36.600 her psychological care

01:03:37.940 poor is to give far

01:03:39.980 more credit to her

01:03:41.120 therapists than they

01:03:42.020 deserve because not

01:03:43.420 only was it poor it

01:03:44.820 was it was the reverse

01:03:46.780 of helpful you know

01:03:48.500 and so she was

01:03:49.300 enticed down the

01:03:50.300 garden path by her

01:03:51.340 own fantasies but

01:03:52.420 still more fundamentally

01:03:54.040 she was enabled by

01:03:55.160 the liars and the

01:03:55.980 butchers that she ran

01:03:56.920 into

01:03:57.260 yeah I mean it's

01:03:59.960 it's unfathomable I

01:04:02.440 mean if we really

01:04:03.200 if we think about a

01:04:05.320 hospital in America

01:04:06.120 right now you know

01:04:08.100 sedating somebody

01:04:09.100 getting ready for a

01:04:10.220 double mastectomy in

01:04:11.380 their teens it's it's

01:04:13.420 just it's difficult to

01:04:15.400 think that why I

01:04:16.440 can't I just can't I

01:04:18.460 can't leave it like I

01:04:19.980 can't stop until it

01:04:21.000 stops because I've got

01:04:24.340 four children I want

01:04:25.180 them to live in a world

01:04:25.920 where they can speak

01:04:26.880 like my one of my

01:04:28.180 sons is at university I

01:04:29.200 can't even drop him

01:04:30.040 off like nobody can

01:04:31.900 know that I'm his

01:04:32.660 mother you know it's

01:04:33.980 um I don't want my

01:04:35.900 kids to live in that

01:04:36.620 world where they

01:04:37.780 should be able to

01:04:38.160 talk about everything

01:04:38.800 even really terrible

01:04:39.940 ideas they should be

01:04:41.040 able to express um in

01:04:42.860 a in public or to

01:04:44.120 their friends and they

01:04:45.960 can't do that so I

01:04:47.480 just think it it's

01:04:48.860 yeah nothing would

01:04:50.340 persuade me I don't

01:04:51.240 think to to stop

01:04:53.340 because the more

01:04:54.180 people try to stop

01:04:55.200 me the more I think

01:04:55.860 I'm I'm right and I'm

01:04:57.180 on the right path and

01:04:58.540 it has to be done

01:04:59.340 yeah well that's a

01:05:01.380 good that's a good UK

01:05:02.860 tradition you know

01:05:03.940 that's for sure what

01:05:05.600 do your kids think

01:05:06.620 about you and what

01:05:09.100 you're doing well

01:05:10.560 they're all quite

01:05:11.000 lovely actually even

01:05:12.000 if I do say so

01:05:12.760 myself so I have four

01:05:13.740 children I have a 21

01:05:15.000 year old boy 20

01:05:16.020 year old boy 16

01:05:17.140 year old girl and a

01:05:17.940 14 year old boy um

01:05:20.060 my 14 year old is the

01:05:21.940 most likely to try and

01:05:23.520 engage in the topic

01:05:24.520 with his friends which

01:05:25.840 has not been very

01:05:26.540 successful um my

01:05:28.620 daughter said to me

01:05:29.380 quite some years ago

01:05:30.760 mummy I think you'll

01:05:31.900 be in the history book

01:05:32.740 so she's on side they

01:05:34.580 all they all think I'm

01:05:35.720 right I'm very lucky

01:05:36.600 I've known about this

01:05:37.820 since 2015 and before

01:05:39.860 it was really poisoned

01:05:40.920 uh all the way through

01:05:42.200 the school so uh I

01:05:44.280 had a really good

01:05:44.760 chance and we're quite

01:05:46.360 open you know in my

01:05:47.920 house and I don't mean

01:05:48.820 like we sit around

01:05:49.720 saying singing kumbaya I

01:05:51.720 mean that if my kids

01:05:53.100 had an issue they can

01:05:53.980 come to me and talk

01:05:54.760 about stuff so yeah

01:05:56.580 okay so so you said

01:05:58.060 it's partly because

01:05:58.800 you're open and in

01:06:00.360 your communication style

01:06:01.420 but it seems to be

01:06:02.560 likely from what you've

01:06:04.140 just said that they

01:06:04.980 must trust you I mean

01:06:06.180 this must have been

01:06:07.560 quite troublesome for

01:06:08.500 them to see all this

01:06:09.340 happening around you

01:06:10.220 and so why do you

01:06:11.480 think you've been

01:06:12.080 fortunate enough to

01:06:13.060 continue to have that

01:06:14.880 familial support I

01:06:15.900 mean these issues

01:06:16.460 sometimes break families

01:06:17.600 up so what why hasn't

01:06:19.980 that happened in your

01:06:20.800 case well I think

01:06:22.160 because I'm a parent

01:06:23.180 and I've parented my

01:06:25.220 children I think

01:06:26.520 there's a you know

01:06:27.580 women come to my

01:06:28.320 meetings where their

01:06:29.100 children can't be told

01:06:30.280 that they're there

01:06:30.880 because their children

01:06:31.820 might fall out with

01:06:32.600 them and I just think

01:06:33.420 no I'm the role of

01:06:34.620 the parent in my

01:06:35.520 children's lives I'm

01:06:36.340 not their friend they

01:06:37.820 don't have to agree

01:06:38.520 with me I don't have

01:06:39.840 to agree with them it's

01:06:40.660 not like they have to

01:06:41.300 think every everything

01:06:42.280 that comes out of my

01:06:43.040 mouth is right but I

01:06:45.460 am their parent and so

01:06:47.320 they trust me because

01:06:48.680 throughout their lives

01:06:50.320 when I've said

01:06:50.940 something I'm telling

01:06:52.880 the truth in an age

01:06:55.200 appropriate way and so

01:06:57.000 I think they understand

01:06:58.240 that my sort of I

01:07:00.040 don't know if I'm an

01:07:00.640 authoritarian although

01:07:01.660 I'm relatively close I

01:07:03.360 suspect when it comes

01:07:05.140 to my parenting but

01:07:06.120 you know I'm they if

01:07:07.880 I say that something

01:07:09.020 is okay that I'm

01:07:10.720 going to be fine that

01:07:11.560 I'll do it and it

01:07:12.440 will be done they've

01:07:13.420 seen time and time

01:07:14.200 again that that

01:07:14.840 happens one of my

01:07:16.860 children in their

01:07:18.720 school they they were

01:07:20.340 going to have a lobby

01:07:20.840 group go in and give

01:07:21.800 a presentation about

01:07:23.460 gender identity so I

01:07:24.960 I said to myself well

01:07:26.660 I'll go and sort this

01:07:27.700 out and I went into

01:07:30.020 the school and I had

01:07:30.800 a meeting with the

01:07:31.540 head of PSHE and I

01:07:33.820 she said oh well we

01:07:35.440 don't really know what

01:07:36.400 we're teaching so we've

01:07:37.740 got this lobby group in

01:07:38.780 and I said who oh well

01:07:41.180 she said an education

01:07:42.140 group but they're not

01:07:42.800 they're a lobby group

01:07:43.900 they're a pro-trans

01:07:44.880 lobby group they're

01:07:45.660 trying to indoctrinate

01:07:46.820 children in schools and

01:07:48.200 she said oh it's Giles

01:07:50.140 and I said oh no you

01:07:51.280 won't no and she said

01:07:55.400 oh any reason I said

01:07:56.320 no you won't be doing

01:07:57.000 that because it's harmful

01:07:58.640 to children and if you

01:07:59.600 don't know what you're

01:08:00.160 teaching why would you

01:08:01.400 let someone else teach

01:08:02.180 it no that that will

01:08:03.420 not happen and I think

01:08:06.040 I have enough authority

01:08:07.220 in my voice and it did

01:08:09.000 not happen because I

01:08:10.300 said it wouldn't happen

01:08:11.160 and my kids know that

01:08:12.500 if if I do that it

01:08:13.880 happens I could put

01:08:16.460 your mind at ease on

01:08:17.280 one front perhaps so

01:08:19.280 there are a variety of

01:08:20.100 different parenting

01:08:21.200 styles and one of them

01:08:24.320 is authoritarian but in

01:08:26.880 the other the opposite

01:08:27.900 of that is I don't

01:08:29.500 remember the technical

01:08:30.300 term but it's basically

01:08:31.700 it's basically lax and

01:08:34.720 progressive but what it

01:08:35.880 really is is irresponsible

01:08:37.320 in the guise of

01:08:38.460 inclusivity and compassion

01:08:39.800 and then in the middle

01:08:40.680 there's authoritative

01:08:41.680 right and kids with

01:08:43.420 authoritative parents do

01:08:44.800 better I'll be that one

01:08:47.220 then so well right right

01:08:49.240 well that's not the same

01:08:50.180 as authoritarian and it's

01:08:51.360 really useful to know this

01:08:52.400 especially for people on

01:08:54.260 the left because people

01:08:55.320 on the left tend to think

01:08:56.340 that anything authoritative

01:08:57.820 is authoritarian and

01:09:00.180 that's just not true right

01:09:02.320 and you're well I would

01:09:03.900 say that's partly what

01:09:06.860 you've been clarifying for

01:09:08.600 yourself conceptually as

01:09:10.040 you've wrestled with the

01:09:11.340 what would you say the

01:09:14.100 problematic elements of

01:09:15.440 your your previous your

01:09:19.160 previous leftist stance

01:09:20.760 right where do you draw

01:09:21.820 the line authoritative

01:09:23.440 authoritative people draw the

01:09:24.800 line and when you draw the

01:09:26.900 line what you mean when

01:09:28.160 you draw the line is no

01:09:30.380 you're not going to do

01:09:32.760 that and no means something

01:09:34.920 like if you continue to do

01:09:37.180 that something you do not

01:09:40.520 like will will happen to you

01:09:43.040 with 100% what you

01:09:46.040 certainty that's what no

01:09:48.120 means you know and there's a

01:09:49.220 certain harshness in that and

01:09:50.500 if that's applied all the

01:09:52.020 time well then it becomes

01:09:53.160 authoritarian obviously

01:09:54.480 because authoritarians say no

01:09:55.940 to everything but people who

01:09:57.760 are judicious say no to the

01:09:59.160 things that should be should

01:10:00.980 that should have no said to

01:10:02.240 them and that is very what

01:10:04.200 would you say it's it's

01:10:05.460 anxiety relieving for

01:10:07.080 children because children want

01:10:10.120 to know where the walls are

01:10:11.340 because they want to know in

01:10:14.020 what space they can play and

01:10:15.540 what's there to keep the

01:10:16.600 predators at bay and so they

01:10:19.120 push and push their parents

01:10:21.300 and everyone around them to

01:10:23.160 find out where the walls are

01:10:24.440 if you're asking you know why

01:10:25.760 do children misbehave and test

01:10:27.420 the limits is because one if

01:10:30.100 they find limits then they can

01:10:32.060 relax comfortably within them

01:10:34.140 people do that in the context of

01:10:35.980 the romantic relationships all

01:10:37.480 the time too they provoke to see

01:10:39.720 where the walls are and if the

01:10:41.560 answer is well there are no walls

01:10:44.100 anywhere then the upshot of that

01:10:47.600 is that you're exposed to

01:10:48.680 everything in the world and

01:10:49.740 you're terrified and so the

01:10:51.560 progressive parents terrify their

01:10:53.260 children because there are no

01:10:54.360 boundaries and so then their

01:10:56.180 children just explode in every

01:10:58.060 direction testing the limits

01:11:00.060 praying desperately to

01:11:02.160 themselves that they'll find them

01:11:03.580 somewhere and the progressive

01:11:05.860 types say well you know there are

01:11:07.320 no limits because all limits are

01:11:08.740 nothing but authority and their

01:11:10.540 children are are desperate and and

01:11:13.220 lost yeah well all that's not much

01:11:16.660 fun that's for sure so so would

01:11:20.660 you tell me a little bit about

01:11:21.920 about mermaids because people in

01:11:24.260 North America don't know very much

01:11:25.620 about that story and you've had

01:11:26.940 some entanglements with that

01:11:28.280 particularly lovely organization so

01:11:31.000 I've been interviewed under caution by

01:11:33.180 the British police on two occasions

01:11:36.400 at the behest of mermaids so

01:11:38.900 mermaids is a charity in the UK I

01:11:42.640 would class them as a pro-trans in

01:11:45.480 kids lobby group who claims to

01:11:49.240 protect trans kids which I think is a

01:11:53.780 is a nonsensical thing that doesn't

01:11:56.340 exist there is no such thing as a

01:11:58.480 trans child just like there's no such

01:12:00.560 thing as a vegan cat and you have

01:12:04.140 Susie Green when her son was 12 she

01:12:07.220 took him out of the country to see

01:12:09.000 doctor I think his name's doctor quack

01:12:11.580 it might not be but I've remembered it

01:12:15.000 like that and I think you just wanted

01:12:16.900 to be it might actually be done oh no

01:12:21.260 it's back but I've remembered it as

01:12:23.000 doctor quack I just put it in my memory

01:12:25.320 bank so sorry anyway she took him and

01:12:28.100 got puberty blockers we didn't give them

01:12:29.600 out in the country back then and then at

01:12:32.480 16 she took him to Thailand and had his

01:12:35.500 testicles removed which I called

01:12:37.060 castrated on Twitter and I got which is

01:12:40.700 what it is by the way yeah although in

01:12:43.160 my in my police interview which I did no

01:12:45.300 comment all the way through but in the

01:12:46.600 interview the hate crime officer which is

01:12:49.440 an actual thing in the UK the hate crime

01:12:52.220 officer said did you know sex reassignment

01:12:54.820 surgery doesn't include castration and I

01:12:57.920 wasn't allowed to say anything but I just

01:12:59.360 thought what did he think that he came

01:13:00.880 home with what testicles for earrings

01:13:02.640 like of course it includes castration

01:13:05.300 but yeah he was 16 and and since then in

01:13:08.980 Thailand they don't do surgeries on

01:13:10.980 children and cut their testicles off and

01:13:14.420 slice and invert their penises into a

01:13:16.740 never a healing hole but yeah I got in

01:13:21.120 trouble by the British police Twitter

01:13:23.340 released my information to the police and

01:13:26.400 then I was interviewed under caution and

01:13:28.280 they were going to charge me with what

01:13:29.820 does that mean what does it mean to be

01:13:31.700 interviewed under caution it's kind of

01:13:34.540 like you have the right to remain silent

01:13:36.000 so it's a it's recorded and anything you

01:13:39.100 say in that can be used in a court against

01:13:41.560 you so I see I see you know they said

01:13:43.880 they said it was voluntary but if I didn't

01:13:45.900 go to the interview oh yeah yeah right if I

01:13:48.880 didn't go to the interview they would

01:13:50.520 maybe come and arrest me at my house or if I

01:13:53.780 was pulled over for a traffic offense they

01:13:55.600 would arrest me or if I tried to leave the

01:13:57.580 country they would arrest me that's I see

01:14:00.900 so it was voluntary except for the force

01:14:03.220 part yeah it was voluntary but yeah like

01:14:06.020 like punishment yeah right yeah yeah you

01:14:09.760 guys are having a lot of fun in the UK with

01:14:11.420 this whole hate crime officer thing and

01:14:13.420 interviewed under caution and yeah and I

01:14:16.300 guess the Irish are running down that road

01:14:18.360 pretty much as fast as they can now putting

01:14:20.400 forward the world's most reprehensible

01:14:22.200 hate speech policy which I always think

01:14:26.140 that hate speech policy is inevitably

01:14:28.940 derived by people who hate speech and so

01:14:31.560 that's actually why they they call it that

01:14:33.640 yes well it precisely and so so what was

01:14:36.620 it like for you to be to be interviewed by

01:14:39.960 the police in the UK right the this the home

01:14:43.640 of Liberty Central you might say for the

01:14:45.720 world because I think that's a fair

01:14:47.160 description of the UK I mean you people

01:14:50.200 broadly speaking brought liberty to the

01:14:54.860 world that's not a bad way of thinking

01:14:56.780 about it I mean you had some help from

01:14:58.680 the Judeo-Christian tradition that's for

01:15:00.700 sure but the UK has performed a pretty

01:15:04.180 stellar job on that front and now here you

01:15:06.660 are with hate crime officers and people

01:15:09.740 like you being interviewed under caution and

01:15:11.680 so what does that do to you as a UK

01:15:14.360 citizen well at first for a start I

01:15:17.560 thought it was a joke because they text me

01:15:19.300 so I just I just assumed I didn't know we

01:15:22.020 were so strapped for cash that they would

01:15:23.920 send me a text to ask me to go to an

01:15:26.160 interview but I think the realization that

01:15:29.340 the police are ideologically captured should

01:15:31.520 should instill fear into everybody like

01:15:35.320 whatever that even if it was an ideology

01:15:36.860 that I agreed with I think it should still

01:15:39.740 make you afraid because the law should be

01:15:41.980 the law and it should just be quite cold

01:15:45.520 black and white right or wrong I'm quite

01:15:48.240 happy with those things so to know that

01:15:50.860 they've been added ideologically captured

01:15:52.780 was significant the fact that they sent

01:15:55.360 officers from the opposite side of the

01:15:56.760 country and they stayed a night in a hotel in

01:15:59.460 order to interview me oh that's interesting

01:16:01.680 was so they didn't use local officers no no oh yeah

01:16:06.820 that's sneaky I mean this is I've done this

01:16:09.820 three times for one of them was saying that

01:16:13.440 there was a so in Brighton last year I said

01:16:17.340 that a woman who called herself trans man and

01:16:21.140 then non-binary just actually she'd said

01:16:23.840 disparaging things about lesbians because she

01:16:25.560 wished she could have been one and accepted

01:16:28.040 herself and I was I was in front of the police

01:16:31.420 again that was a that was police from the

01:16:33.540 opposite side of the country from Brighton to

01:16:35.320 the west where I live um and it's just utterly

01:16:39.680 insane the other occasion I had police at my

01:16:42.420 door two police officers because and I quote I

01:16:46.000 had been untoward about pedophiles and I don't

01:16:49.480 know about you Jordan but I thought they were

01:16:51.800 one group of people if any that you could be

01:16:54.800 untoward about were pedophiles oh yes well

01:16:58.040 spoken like a true fascist you and your prejudice

01:17:00.700 against pedophiles so yeah well hopefully hopefully

01:17:04.380 you won't well we're probably going to get

01:17:06.600 cancelled on YouTube for this interview anyways but

01:17:08.880 now you've made it a virtual certainty so you and

01:17:11.460 your prejudice against minor attracted persons let's

01:17:14.540 say do you know that 53 percent of mothers with

01:17:18.900 children who purport to have gender dysphoria have

01:17:23.040 borderline personality disorder or something roughly

01:17:26.440 equivalent you know and so you could say as a

01:17:29.940 clinician if you weren't lying and or compelled

01:17:32.840 to lie by your government which is by the way now

01:17:35.560 the case for all clinicians that any that the

01:17:39.720 suspicion properly raised when confronted by any

01:17:42.940 child who has gender dysphoria is that the mother

01:17:46.340 has borderline personality disorder and borderline

01:17:49.120 personality disorder is a very very serious disorder

01:17:52.020 and it's associated with cluster B in the DSM-4 and

01:17:55.900 that's that's where all the traits like antisocial

01:17:59.120 personality and narcissism and psychopathy and

01:18:02.180 childhood conduct disorder etc all cluster and so the

01:18:06.140 mermaid's mother you know she's one to be viewed with

01:18:09.660 suspicion to say the least especially given what she did

01:18:12.640 to her son which to call it reprehensible and inexcusable

01:18:15.820 is to is to say that Joseph Mengele was not a very nice

01:18:19.700 boy and and she it's very interesting to see that you're in

01:18:24.700 a situation in the UK where someone who's as bent and twisted as that can

01:18:29.220 operate in an entire charity and wield social influence and also set up

01:18:34.380 circumstances so that someone like you can be persecuted by the police

01:18:38.320 yeah that's quite the inversion see this doesn't seem to me to be political

01:18:42.320 anymore when it comes to that it's something far darker than the mere

01:18:45.960 political I don't know what do you think about that you said that you're not

01:18:49.260 religious that you're atheistic but you you understand that there's a strange sort

01:18:54.780 of battle going on and do you still construe it fundamentally in political

01:18:59.440 terms that that it's a battle between say belief systems or how do you how do you

01:19:04.120 conceptualize the war that you find yourself in

01:19:08.000 I think my view on it is instinctive and perhaps I'm quite lucky that I don't try

01:19:13.640 and rationalize my instincts I just go with them uh it's always kept me pretty

01:19:19.040 safe and that's what I talk to my children about that's like one of the big

01:19:22.520 lessons is if it feels wrong it's wrong and and if you're if actually it was a

01:19:26.460 safe situation that you left there's no harm um but you know trust your instincts

01:19:31.320 uh I think it's I think a lot has happened in order to get to this point I

01:19:39.280 think one of the biggest things as I move through this movement is the lack of

01:19:44.780 community and I wonder if if we didn't all move so far away from our natural

01:19:48.880 communities um I wonder if people would get away with this stuff because we

01:19:53.220 would have a broad range of people in our lives of all different ages uh that

01:19:57.320 would be talking to us all the time and we would get a wide sort of plethora of

01:20:02.260 views on any given anything and I think we'd learn actually that human behavior is

01:20:06.780 pretty standard whether you're in the 1400s the 1800s or right now I think our

01:20:12.060 impulses and urges are pretty similar if if not the society in which we live maybe

01:20:16.900 we don't exercise them in the same way or express them in the same way but I

01:20:20.600 think that we are we are as old as time and and I don't think we we change that

01:20:26.020 much um but I think it just goes down to currency again and I think um borderline

01:20:34.120 personality disorder or not uh and I'm inclined to agree with you but women

01:20:39.580 women get sort of social kudos from transitioning their kids I mean I always

01:20:45.160 say to people you know if somebody said oh I live next door to John he's a racist

01:20:51.020 you should he's nobody would say oh that's great well done you must be so

01:20:55.760 lucky but if someone said I live next door to someone she's got a beautiful

01:21:00.320 trans son um people are then engage in this nonsensical kind of why that's so

01:21:07.960 great um and I say to people all the time you should say oh gosh that's awful

01:21:12.140 that poor kid that's what you should be saying that poor kid because we know

01:21:16.780 apparently the apparently the actress Megan Fox has three boys who are all

01:21:21.640 trans I'm so shocked because she seems such a such a resolute sensible woman

01:21:27.820 yeah well the I think the the odds of that I think are one in 27 million

01:21:34.420 because you the odds of having one trans kid this is before all this blew up and

01:21:40.880 became you know a statistical morass because you can't really estimate the

01:21:45.020 prevalence accuracy anymore of course because it's become a social contagion but

01:21:49.360 originally the estimates were something like one in three thousand and I think

01:21:55.580 that was probably an overestimate but whatever it's close enough and so the

01:21:59.020 probability you'll have two trans kids is one in nine million and the

01:22:03.320 probability that you'll have three is one in 27 million so you think well the

01:22:09.240 odds that the mother is a what would you say a narcissist willing to sacrifice

01:22:15.620 her children to Moloch for the elevation of her own moral stature is 26,999,999 to 1

01:22:24.580 so then you've got Jazz Jennings haven't you you've got Jazz Jennings having a whole

01:22:30.220 program about about him and his distress I mean if that isn't an advertisement for

01:22:35.400 do not do anything to your kids I don't know what is it's yeah well the

01:22:40.520 question is what has that been an advertisement for I mean when someone

01:22:44.240 like you watches that program you think oh my god there's a little what you say

01:22:48.920 window into the abysmal but I would say in all probability that that has the

01:22:55.780 fundamental consequence of that show has been that a whole parade of currency

01:23:01.460 seeking virtue signaling narcissistic compassionate mothers have figured out a great way to exploit

01:23:08.360 their children to gain social currency yeah I mean because they don't care yeah for Paris Hilton

01:23:15.300 and Kim Kardashian they just they just made a sex tape um they haven't sacrificed their kids

01:23:21.480 you know maybe maybe mothers should be encouraged to do that instead I am joking

01:23:25.900 and being facetious but it's like I don't know why see you're on Dante territory there right

01:23:32.220 you're on Dante territory trying to trying to organize out the different levels of hell

01:23:37.780 right well I think we're I think we are in we are kind of in one in a country you know in both of our

01:23:45.160 well in Canada in America in the UK Australia New Zealand where actually there is there is a

01:23:51.780 a churning through of children into this cult I think it's it's a certain level of hell all of

01:23:57.440 its own and the fact that you can't yeah well in Canada we pride ourselves we pride ourselves in

01:24:02.300 Canada on being on the cutting edge of that particular bit of butchery so to speak and you

01:24:07.660 know our prime minister he's like virtue signaling king of the universe and one of the things that's

01:24:12.380 really appalling about that is that he really does have Canadian women fooled you know and it's

01:24:17.380 really something to watch because most Canadian women still think that Justin Trudeau is the

01:24:21.540 right leader for the times and it's because he's got that superficial charm and grace that goes along

01:24:27.940 with his consummate acting ability and he can use compassion to guise his true nature like nobody's

01:24:33.600 business and so Canada is in rough shape in consequence on all sorts of fronts and you know

01:24:39.480 thank God we lost Jacinda Ardern and also Nicola Sturgeon she was a really interesting example to me

01:24:46.320 you know I thought it was so fascinating to see because she really fell into the leftist abyss

01:24:51.400 in in a most profound way because her stance was well of course any man who says he's a woman is a

01:24:57.980 woman and the right rejoinder to that was the one that the journalist who really nailed her

01:25:03.020 provided which was every man eh everyone eh how about the psychopathic serial sex offenders

01:25:12.520 how about them well of course they're women too it's like okay fair enough let's play that out and

01:25:18.660 see how it goes right trans men trans women whatever the hell they are demented men who claim to be women

01:25:24.520 so that they can get access to women you're going to feel sorry for them that's your that's your doctrine

01:25:30.260 on the political front you know that pretty much did Nicola Sturgeon in and it was well deserved

01:25:35.020 Kelly what do you want what is it that you're trying to accomplish like if you look five years down the road

01:25:40.940 and you're successful in whatever it is that you're doing what does success look like to you

01:25:46.500 I think it looks like a repealing of the GRA so there's no more legal fiction the GRA is a gender

01:25:52.300 recognition act in which men or women can pretend that they're the opposite sex and be legally recognized

01:25:57.400 I think if we if we take that away I think we begin to get this out of our institutions

01:26:04.240 I'd like to I'd like women to be able to go to hospital and if they ask for a female member of

01:26:11.540 staff that that's what's delivered here at standing for women with my organization we do some research

01:26:16.980 and only four out of all NHS trusts in the UK which are plentiful so every single area has a different

01:26:24.680 NHS trust they only recognize four percent I think it was or four out of all of them recognized a man who

01:26:32.560 called himself a woman as a different thing to an actual woman so what that would mean for example

01:26:38.620 there is an acute mental health ward for women in a hospital I think it's in Sussex and the head nurse

01:26:47.500 there is a man who wears fetish nurse gear for kicks outside of the hospital he now calls himself a

01:26:54.340 woman and the first thing he did as the head nurse of this acute psychiatric ward for women who clearly have

01:27:01.180 been through probably uh you know a good 50 percent maybe uh trauma at the hands of men and male

01:27:07.440 violence um he moved his office down to where these women sleep and he was celebrated for that so I want

01:27:16.040 women oh that's fun that's that's great that's that's one of the most demented stories I've ever

01:27:20.380 heard so thank you for I know I'll send you some full details everyone please do have a look at the

01:27:25.440 photos it's I just don't think I could make up some of the things that I know that are happening I know

01:27:31.800 I know senior police officers who are autogynophiles who um yeah make excuses to go and speak to female

01:27:39.960 victims of crime where they normally wouldn't because they're far too senior right so this is once you

01:27:46.540 can lie to people and say a woman has a penis or a baby has a sexuality once you can tell these

01:27:53.520 massive lies and people go along with it they're susceptible to go along with pretty much anything

01:27:59.740 that's yeah that you really put your finger on it there that's I think that's exactly right if you

01:28:04.440 can force people to swallow the insistence that a man is a woman then you've blown out the law of

01:28:13.320 non-contradiction completely and you are now allowed not only to say any damn thing you want

01:28:18.580 but to insist that everybody abide by it like it's the dictates of God himself yeah absolutely quite the

01:28:24.840 trick it's quite the they must not question it I mean we we know I did theology as a degree uh it's a

01:28:31.540 very long story but I am a gold star atheist so I've never had belief in God at all I was brought up

01:28:36.340 in an atheist household with a relapsed Catholic mother um but I I there's there's just there's

01:28:46.020 something so religious about it in the sort of dogmatic way that you cannot question it at all

01:28:51.120 it is like a it's it's like a religion from like the the 1500s it's it's so insane

01:28:58.220 the thing that frightens me I'm afraid is that there there are no non-religious beliefs that

01:29:07.180 not in the final analysis and if the religious belief that properly unifies people is sacrificed

01:29:14.380 this is sort of the Nietzschean observation about the death of God what you see is you don't even see

01:29:20.720 the rise of new religions Kelly I don't think what you see is a regression to

01:29:25.980 archaic forms of religious belief and that's essentially a polytheistic paganism and so

01:29:32.860 you know it's interesting to talk to you because it looks to me like you're someone who's come to

01:29:38.400 believe in the devil but not in God and I did make allusion to that earlier and I'm not I'm not by the

01:29:43.440 way rendering judgment on that one way or another but you're also seeing that there is a religious

01:29:49.940 element to this cult-like move that you're opposing and you might ask yourself and I suspect

01:29:55.980 you probably do is that well what's the alternative to that you know and what I've seen is that the

01:30:02.140 kind of humanism that's been put forward as a moral alternative by the humanist types and they're

01:30:07.360 generally atheistic has proved to be not only a force that's absolutely 100% unable to stop this

01:30:16.680 tide of strange polytheistic paganism but has actually enabled it you know and that does beg the

01:30:22.280 question well what do you have as a replacement your replacement today was you know you rely on your

01:30:28.020 you said on your instincts you know and and your your intrinsic sense of what's right and what's wrong

01:30:33.560 and you let that guide you and you know that works out pretty well if if you're well constituted and

01:30:38.900 your moral sentiments are properly what functioning properly in the absence of too much delusion

01:30:46.340 but you know it's it's it's not a reliable source for people who are unbelievably and deeply confused

01:30:53.080 and so we're all going to have to contend with the question of what is it that we should believe

01:30:58.740 as an alternative to this strange cult-like narcissistic nonsense that seems to be spread

01:31:06.160 threatening us on all fronts so what so what's next for you sorry maybe you have some comments about

01:31:13.640 that i just i i just think about the the the religion i'm i'm not so stupid and that i don't

01:31:20.220 acknowledge that i was brought up in a country that was religious uh certainly in my formative years and

01:31:26.440 i i do think the lack of religion and common purpose and community that i think religion and faith brings

01:31:33.940 i do think when there is a vacuum created then we do fill it with some some pretty terrible things

01:31:41.900 so i wonder if after all this chaos people will be looking for a very prescriptive religion and i

01:31:48.620 i wonder if islam will be the thing that slots very happily into that place because it it does give

01:31:54.780 people order and i i just think that what comes after no boundaries and i think people will be looking

01:32:00.560 for really clear concise boundaries to keep them safe because we are going to end up in a place where

01:32:05.960 we don't feel very safe because oh not even the ground that we stand upon will feel particularly

01:32:11.060 solid so i am i've got a lot of very religious friends who tell me that i'm the most christian

01:32:17.500 atheist they've they've ever met um yeah and i'll i'll probably end up being some sort of uh

01:32:25.160 evangelical pastor before my my days on this earth probably yeah you'll end up canonized that that

01:32:30.600 would be that would be good revenge on you that's for sure that'd be god's little joke for you yeah

01:32:35.720 yeah so well look we're kind of running out of time here on this front for everybody watching and

01:32:40.500 listening i'm going to flip over to the daily wire plus platform and continue to talk to kelly and get

01:32:45.720 to know her a little bit better walk her through her biography so that i can and everyone listening

01:32:50.940 can understand where she's coming from and why and so if you'd be inclined to join us there that

01:32:56.520 you'd be more than welcome of course and that would also give you the opportunity to support the

01:33:00.300 daily wire which you really might want to think about doing especially because at the moment

01:33:04.580 all the people who are participating in that venture are under pretty sustained attack from

01:33:10.400 youtube and the google puppet masters that are behind it god only knows what sort of weird radicals are

01:33:15.820 you know nested in the crevices of that organization and that's become rather dire recently i'm sure the

01:33:23.000 discussion i have with kelly here is going to be banned by youtube but probability that's really high

01:33:27.760 because youtube banned my discussion with helen joyce and of course helen joyce is you know just

01:33:33.920 an just a journalist for the economist and a very well-regarded person so what the hell does she know

01:33:39.040 so the probability that this talk will disappear upon its emergence is quite high and the probability

01:33:46.280 that my youtube channel is going to go up in flames in the next year is also quite high so anyways having

01:33:51.860 said all that you might want to give some consideration to lending some support to the daily wire plus

01:33:56.900 platform because they're at least somewhat of an alternative i know they're made out of reprehensible

01:34:01.960 conservatives and you know fascists of all stripes but compared to the woke mob and their carnivorous

01:34:08.280 motivations i think they're quite preferable so you could join kelly and i on the daily wire plus

01:34:14.500 platform if you're inclined to and kelly thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me today uh

01:34:19.140 i appreciate that very much and it's it's good that you had an opportunity to share your experiences

01:34:24.420 with everybody who's watching and listening and good luck i hope the bloody i hope the bloody tooth

01:34:30.220 mob stays the hell away from you and and and it allows you to continue what you're doing and

01:34:35.580 you know um we'll talk about that a little bit more when we go over to the daily wire plus side

01:34:40.320 thank you so much for having me it was an absolute pleasure

01:34:43.740 thank you

01:34:56.960 you

01:35:00.960 you

01:35:02.960 you

01:35:04.960 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - August 03, 2023

378. Posie Parker： Anti-Trans Activist or Women's Rights Champion？｜ Kellie-Jay Keen

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