The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 400. Message from the United Arab Emirates ｜ His Excellency Saeed Al Nazari

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00:00:57.420 Hello everyone watching and listening.

00:01:11.020 Today I am speaking with the Secretary General of Great Arab Minds, His Excellency Saeed Al-Nathari.

00:01:18.480 We discuss the origins of the United Arab Emirates, how the Abraham Peace Accords and the Tri-Faith Initiative have taken effect and opened dialogue between the peoples of the Abrahamic faiths.

00:01:31.920 We discuss the projects spearheaded by Saeed for the education, entrepreneurial development, and empowerment of young Emiratis.

00:01:40.460 And how the unique vision and strong values of the United Arab Emirates have lifted the country to heights unimaginable only half a century ago.

00:01:49.840 So, I've interviewed a fair number of people from the Arab world and from the Muslim world more broadly.

00:01:55.600 And I've also delved to some degree into the Abraham Accords, which I'm very excited about.

00:02:03.540 And I'm very much interested in talking to you today about the United Arab Emirates.

00:02:09.040 And so, I thought we might as well start with some really basic questions because lots of people who are listening won't know as much about your country as they might.

00:02:17.080 And so, the first obvious thing to talk about is tell me, tell us exactly where you're situated geographically, who your immediate neighbors are, and the size of the country, just the basic details.

00:02:29.900 Well, Jordan, thank you to have me on.

00:02:32.700 It's great to see you screen to screen, and hopefully very soon we'll be meeting face-to-face in the UAE.

00:02:41.180 The United Arab Emirates, located in the Middle East,

00:02:44.480 I'm not sure how accurate is Wikipedia, but it says you were born in 1962.

00:02:54.140 Jordan, if you look at the United Arab Emirates, in 1962, you would see an area of sand.

00:03:00.680 It had almost every single reason for it not to be successful, for it not to exist.

00:03:10.300 It had every single factor for it to be an impossible nation.

00:03:15.580 Located in the Middle East, one of the world's most unstable region. 0.77

00:03:20.560 Ongoing conflicts in the Middle East, tensions, failed states.

00:03:27.720 And then beside that, you have the environment, the harsh climate, heat waves.

00:03:33.300 I just recently saw an article that there are some Western cities who may face an environment or weather

00:03:42.100 that's somehow close to what the Middle East is experiencing.

00:03:47.020 But in 2100, that risk comes 70 years to experience what we have been experiencing for 50 years.

00:03:56.780 And then you also had the infrastructure, basic infrastructure.

00:04:03.960 I grew up listening to stories about how hard it was to move from one place to another.

00:04:10.440 How small were the houses, families were, and very limited small houses where you barely have a place for your bed.

00:04:19.960 You had all these factors, the unstable region, the environment, the infrastructure.

00:04:27.740 Yet here I am, living in one of the most secured, safe, cleanest, diverse cities on Earth.

00:04:39.160 And that's the UAE. 0.69

00:04:40.860 The UAE we live in today, along with 200 different nationalities.

00:04:44.920 It has one of the world's top competitive cities, Dubai, Guzhabi, and many other cities.

00:04:52.880 It has been a beacon of hope.

00:04:55.640 It has been a model that is homegrown in the Middle East.

00:05:01.360 And it proved one thing that you have been discussing for so long, vision.

00:05:06.960 What does it mean to actually visualize a vision, visualize a goal?

00:05:12.780 I think the UAE is the ultimate case study to showcase the power and impact of a vision.

00:05:20.540 And so tell me, let's go over some basics again, and then we'll talk about the vision.

00:05:26.420 What's the population of the UAE now?

00:05:29.340 It's almost 9.5 million.

00:05:32.540 And Dubai itself? How many people live there?

00:05:35.220 Well, the exact numbers, I don't have the exact numbers handy now, but there are millions as well.

00:05:41.320 And who are your immediate neighbors?

00:05:44.460 Who are you surrounded by?

00:05:47.160 We're surrounded by Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, Oman, and many other countries there in the Gulf states.

00:05:55.520 All right.

00:05:56.060 Now, you talked about the vision of the UAE.

00:05:58.360 And I presume, since we started talking about 1962, that there was very little in the UAE in 1962.

00:06:07.160 And you talked about the importance of a vision.

00:06:10.260 So what was that vision, and how did the UAE develop both economically and socially?

00:06:16.760 Jordan, if you look at the history of the United Arab Emirates, how it was formed from basic infrastructure,

00:06:26.080 some Bedouin families living in many different areas, small houses, small towns, divided areas.

00:06:37.700 Our founding father, the late Sheikh Zayed, came with a vision, thought the power comes in unity.

00:06:45.500 The power and futures also could be made by unity.

00:06:52.340 He thought we should unite different Emirates, different tribes under one vision.

00:06:58.900 That vision was to create hope out of this region.

00:07:02.460 That vision was to actually build a nation that represents us in a way that should be represented globally.

00:07:12.740 Who are we as people of this region?

00:07:15.840 What are our values?

00:07:17.380 What are our culture, tradition?

00:07:19.640 How can we turn every single challenge into a solution, into an opportunity?

00:07:25.860 Well, if you look at the location, being in the Middle East is not something easy.

00:07:31.080 It's filled with challenges.

00:07:32.700 It fills with instability.

00:07:34.380 But then you could also turn that into a huge opportunity.

00:07:37.860 You are a hub to the whole world.

00:07:39.320 You are a hub to two billion people.

00:07:42.740 You could reach East and West.

00:07:45.560 That's how you turn a challenge into an opportunity.

00:07:49.240 If you hear the messages that have been recorded by the founder, Sheikh Zayed,

00:07:57.700 he was a very wise leader who believed that he would see this future coming.

00:08:04.480 He could visualize stuff.

00:08:06.460 I can still hear some of his TV interviews in 1971 and 1975 as if he speaks about today's reality.

00:08:14.820 He thought, yes, we will grow.

00:08:18.140 Yes, we will focus on education.

00:08:20.360 Yes, we will focus on trade, on economy.

00:08:22.600 But then we will also stick to our identity, to our culture, to our values.

00:08:30.240 We will send a message of hope out of this region.

00:08:34.960 Because I think our neighbors, the 108 million young Arabs, would love to see a message of hope out of this region.

00:08:44.580 We have seen for so long many challenges, many conflicts happening.

00:08:50.360 And I think there is a huge hunger and need to see more messages of hope coming out of this region, from this region, for this region, to show a model that works.

00:09:04.720 What were the Emirates?

00:09:07.440 You made reference to tribal groups that were united.

00:09:10.440 What were the Emirates exactly?

00:09:12.660 And when did they unite?

00:09:14.200 When was the country established?

00:09:15.740 The country was established in 2nd December 1971, at that day.

00:09:21.880 So it's a very, very new country.

00:09:23.780 Yes, it's a young country.

00:09:25.320 And I think being young made us all see how vision and hard work could actually turn the impossible into possible.

00:09:35.960 Who thought that in 50 years' time, you could turn a place in the middle of the desert into the world's trade hub, into a place where it's among the top 10 most competitive cities in safety and security and trade and business.

00:09:53.700 And you name it, I think if I'll speak about the rankings and I'll speak about the competitiveness of the cities in the United Arab Emirates, I can speak for the next hour about how many stuff that have been done in a way or in a quality that could compete with any city around the whole world.

00:10:13.500 And what were the Emirates?

00:10:15.500 If you look at it, well, I wasn't born in 1971, but what I heard from my family, my father, my grandfather, it was desert, sandy area where you had tents in some areas.

00:10:32.140 You had people who would work in farming in some areas, people who would go into fishing, into pearl diving, into trading.

00:10:43.240 I think what was there back then, it was a trade hub.

00:10:48.720 It has always been a trade hub because you trade with India, you trade with many other countries around.

00:10:56.340 But then the skills were different, the products were completely different, the services worked.

00:11:02.140 They were completely different.

00:11:04.680 One thing was in commons, people wanted to actually invest in themselves and their families so they would even fly to get educated.

00:11:12.720 They would also go and meet in many different universities or schools to actually get access to education.

00:11:21.700 Education was very limited in the whole region.

00:11:25.420 Most of the services were very limited.

00:11:27.980 But I think our founding fathers, the leadership, saw a potential, saw an opportunity, saw a belief.

00:11:38.800 And this goes back to the history of this region.

00:11:42.400 If you look at the golden age of the Arab world, this region were behind many contributions, were behind many sciences.

00:11:52.360 You name it, algebra, al-khawarizmi, in medicine, names of the exploration of different stars.

00:12:02.080 There were many people in this region who contributed to the fundamentals of these sciences.

00:12:08.740 I think this has been building our confidence that we can do it.

00:12:14.080 And that's the way today.

00:12:18.340 So you said that, say, back before 1971, the economy was rather rudimentary and the governmental structure was essentially tribal.

00:12:28.500 And Sheikh Zayed united all those various tribes.

00:12:33.280 Now, they had been fractious for a long time.

00:12:35.280 What did he do that brought the unity about?

00:12:39.900 You made reference to identity, culture, and value.

00:12:42.440 But I'd like to know in more detail, why did these tribal groups decide to band together?

00:12:49.560 And why has that maintained itself, given, as you also pointed out, the tremendous instability that has characterized the Middle East for, well, forever, as far as all of us living today are concerned?

00:13:02.620 So how did he manage this vision?

00:13:05.260 And what are the elements of identity, culture, and value you think that unite you and allow you to be prosperous?

00:13:11.780 I think, Jordan, one thing that was clear enough for everyone, that the direct intention that the late Sheikh Zayed had, he wanted good for everyone.

00:13:26.000 He wanted to ensure that unity brings better good for everyone.

00:13:29.840 It didn't happen in one day or one month.

00:13:34.520 He had been into that continuous conversation with the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Rashid bin Zayed, with the ruler of different areas at the United Arab Emirates, discussing how we can bring unity.

00:13:46.540 How can we build something that's bigger than all of us?

00:13:49.300 That's what we study in history.

00:13:52.800 That's what our parents actually have experienced and lived.

00:13:56.440 So my dad was following these discussions.

00:14:01.520 And everyone celebrated on the 2nd December 1971 when it happened, actually happened.

00:14:06.560 Because they heard about many trials of unity in the region, many of them failed and many of them didn't work.

00:14:15.060 But what made it work, I think, that deep, bold, hard work, plan to stick to a vision and showcase a vision with good intentions, with purpose, and with passion.

00:14:33.040 And if you hear the late Sheikh Zayed speaks about unity or human resources, he usually does it with passion.

00:14:41.800 You can know how honesty is.

00:14:45.380 You can know how he actually visualized that vision.

00:14:50.040 And that's, look at the UAE today, went from a sandy place to exploring Mars to, right now we have an astronaut at the International Space Station.

00:15:03.840 So one of the things that everybody who's watching and listening might do well to consider is that, Saeed just made reference to the honesty of Sheikh Zayed.

00:15:16.740 And we have this idea often in our culture, especially among the people who are more cynical and nihilistic, that if you're manipulative and you take advantage and you win in your business dealings and you're a hard-ass, sort of wolf of Wall Street kind of character, then you'll come up on top with your dominance and your willingness and ability to use force.

00:15:40.800 And almost all that's nonsense.

00:15:42.880 I mean, most of the criminally psychopathic-oriented types who use dominance, they end up, well, they often meet a violent end, but they're very rarely successful.

00:15:52.920 And the reason for that is that you can fool people once or twice, but you can't fool them consistently.

00:15:58.120 And this is actually why I was so interested in why, in how the unity of the UAE was brought about.

00:16:04.260 Because in order to make something work over, well, let's say generations, but even over the span of a lifetime, you better not be lying to the people that you're negotiating with.

00:16:14.620 Because if you do, especially if you've come, you know, like a wolf in sheep's clothing, they will not be happy about that and they will absolutely take their revenge.

00:16:27.460 And so if you want to be successful, you said he did genuinely want the best for the people of the region.

00:16:33.660 So he was aiming up and he was honest.

00:16:36.300 And you can get an awful long way aiming up and being honest.

00:16:39.660 And so, all right, so he had a vision and he was a trustworthy person and he spoke with passion.

00:16:45.060 Now, how did the UAE develop economically?

00:16:48.620 That was primarily oil, I presume.

00:16:52.640 And people might think, well, the reason the UAE is doing so well is because it has oil and that's basically cheap riches.

00:17:00.340 And it doesn't take a lot of work to do well when you're receiving billions of dollars.

00:17:05.620 But I would counter that by saying that there are plenty of countries on the planet that have no shortage of natural resources, that are corrupt beyond belief and that are miserable beyond imagination.

00:17:19.060 And all of whose wealth is devoted to a very small number of people who are, in fact, very crooked and everything is hell.

00:17:26.540 And so money alone is not going to bring the kind of stability and vision that you're talking about in relationship to the UAE.

00:17:35.460 So tell us how the economy of the area has grown and how you guys have determined to diversify and to, like, stabilize your economy across time.

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00:19:24.980 Well, you say that Jordan, oil is an enabler and you can't be over-depending on oil.

00:19:37.200 Actually, if you look at many different countries, oil could be a curse sometimes because over-dependence on oil would let you make short-term decisions to actually increase your revenue and so on.

00:19:50.400 What has been made in the UAE is completely different.

00:19:54.300 Actually, we started thinking of diversification of the economy right away.

00:20:01.120 Let's say Dubai, for example, today, 95% of the GDP is not coming from the oil.

00:20:08.020 Less than 5% depends on oil.

00:20:10.820 That's Dubai, one of the most competitive economies in the whole region.

00:20:15.680 I think what we did very well is turning the real problem into an opportunity.

00:20:26.640 We used location very well to be a hub and a trade.

00:20:30.800 But then to actually be a hub, you need a complete redesign of the environment.

00:20:37.760 You need to design logistics.

00:20:39.700 You need to design enablers.

00:20:41.820 You need to design an environment where people feel safe to chase their dreams, feel safe to actually be part of what's being built.

00:20:52.680 And I think that what made today's economy, the economy we see, because everyone felt that they want to be part of this thing happening in the UAE.

00:21:05.080 Part of bringing hope to life, part of bringing vision to reality, part of challenging every single obstacle.

00:21:14.700 I think it became a sort of a movement that humanity felt we could see a civilization being built here right in the Middle East, in the UAE.

00:21:24.920 And then you see many companies have trusted the UAE and its stability.

00:21:31.660 They moved their headquarters to the UAE.

00:21:34.280 There are many homegrown companies like Emirates Airline, which is among the world's top airlines.

00:21:41.620 Etihad Airline, another great company.

00:21:44.700 And then you have DP World handling many ports worldwide.

00:21:47.760 You have many other companies, one after another, and then you have foreign investors coming.

00:21:55.680 I think we also went into advancing our skills in many different industries.

00:22:04.360 We have now many Emiratis actually in many different industries in logistics and transportation and materials and engineering.

00:22:15.080 They have different companies, they have products, and we maintain to have credibility in the way we work.

00:22:22.960 We maintain to have also consistency.

00:22:26.380 Because if you look at the UAE in 1971 and then 1975 and then 1990s, 2005, 2020,

00:22:33.060 every year makes the UAE stronger, brighter, it turns the story into a story of vision that came true and a vision that guides us for the next 50 years.

00:22:52.480 Yeah, well, you know, my daughter has spent time in Dubai and she's enjoyed it a lot.

00:22:58.480 She said that the entrepreneurial buzz there is remarkable, I suppose, analogous in some ways to Silicon Valley or maybe analogous at the moment to also modern Israel, a real hub of development.

00:23:12.760 She also said that it's an extraordinarily safe and clean and well-run city.

00:23:17.280 And I have some questions about that.

00:23:19.140 So I had talked to her about potentially considering moving some of the operations that I'm involved in to Dubai.

00:23:28.920 And let me ask you the questions that came to mind as a consequence of that.

00:23:34.900 And you must obviously know the answers because you've attracted all sorts of companies.

00:23:39.080 I know the tax situation in Dubai is favorable to people who are engaged in entrepreneurial enterprises.

00:23:45.140 The concern, one of the concerns I had was, let's say, the sanctity of private property.

00:23:53.080 I mean, a lot of people who've invested in China have had second thoughts in recent years because they've found that it isn't obvious exactly what they own.

00:24:04.620 You know, and one of the advantages to being located in somewhere like the United States, in particular the United States,

00:24:09.440 but you could say the same thing about Great Britain and most of the countries derived from English common law tradition,

00:24:15.340 is that if you own something, you can be pretty damn sure that it's yours.

00:24:21.160 And that's a really hard thing to establish, right?

00:24:23.620 Because in the entire history of humankind, one of the most likely consequences of owning something was that someone was going to take it from you.

00:24:30.460 Now, you said, you know, the UAE has had a pretty good track record for now on 50 years,

00:24:35.320 and that's starting to become a reasonable amount of time.

00:24:38.140 Why do you think it is that companies have trusted you to move their assets to the UAE?

00:24:44.700 And why do you think it is that they can trust you?

00:24:48.020 Jordan, well, I'm glad that your daughter experienced what Dubai is.

00:24:52.560 And I'm very excited for you to experience what Dubai and the UAE is.

00:24:56.380 I think they didn't just move their companies and businesses.

00:25:03.280 I think they moved their most valuable asset, their families.

00:25:07.980 I hear hundreds and thousands of stories of people who have been moving to Dubai and Abu Dhabi and the UAE

00:25:16.860 with their families, growing their children here in this environment.

00:25:21.220 I think what we did very well, and I can't speak about the whole government or the UAE,

00:25:28.160 but with my own personal view, is we designed an environment where we feel we own what we work hard for.

00:25:39.920 Now, currently, the real estate market is booming in Dubai.

00:25:46.160 There are thousands of people moving into Dubai.

00:25:50.140 There are thousands of people buying in Dubai.

00:25:52.920 They do that because, basically, they trusted the system.

00:25:57.460 They trusted the government.

00:25:59.060 They trusted the environment.

00:26:01.040 And you can't buy trust.

00:26:02.920 There is no way you can buy trust.

00:26:04.760 But you can build it, and you can earn it.

00:26:08.300 And this earning and build comes in a result of a long, credible, consistent, hard work, and a system that works.

00:26:19.400 I live in this neighborhood in Dubai.

00:26:23.360 In every single neighborhood, you would find a Marathi family.

00:26:28.480 You would find families from Canada, from UK, from China, from Bangladesh, you name it, from India.

00:26:38.580 Many other people, 200 different nationalities, have chosen Dubai to be a place for their business,

00:26:46.060 for their families, for their growth.

00:26:48.140 They chose the UAE because they know that living in one neighborhood, walking at 3 a.m. at night,

00:26:58.960 they wouldn't even face a 0.1% of a threat to their safety, to their security, to their assets, to their privacy.

00:27:09.040 We have respect, but we also have order, and order that works, to maintain a lifestyle that humanity deserves.

00:27:20.400 I think what we managed very well is now they speak a lot about micro-ecosystems and micro-environments

00:27:29.820 when you try to design a micro-environment, a garden, a shading system in your house where you design your own micro-environment.

00:27:38.240 I think what the UAE have been doing, it designed a whole micro-world in Dubai and in Moldabi and the UAE, 0.99

00:27:46.900 where you would see the whole world, the ideal part of the world, being flourished here.

00:27:52.960 And that's why people trust, because they trust the system, they trust the order, they trust the way it was designed.

00:28:00.900 Okay, so let me ask you some questions about that.

00:28:03.760 You know, I spent a fair amount of time 25 years ago looking at the difference between Japan and the United States

00:28:13.540 on the education front and also the economic front.

00:28:16.660 And this was at a time, I guess it was in the 1980s, so I guess that's more like 40 years ago,

00:28:22.700 when there was concern throughout the Western world or apprehension that Japan was going to be a monolithic

00:28:29.400 and dominating economic force because it had, you know, exploded onto the scene in an absolutely remarkable manner,

00:28:37.140 produced a huge economy.

00:28:38.360 And one of the things that struck me about Japan was that it was in some ways a very, very conservative society.

00:28:48.760 Now, there are some advantages to that.

00:28:51.380 The Japanese education system before university is top rate.

00:28:56.020 Their universities aren't very good, though, and that's relevant to the place that I'm going.

00:29:01.700 Now, in the U.S., the grade school system isn't as good as the Japanese school, but the universities are a lot better.

00:29:09.120 And in the U.S., there's more crime, but there's also more creativity.

00:29:13.360 And if you look at the curves for criminality and the curves for creativity across the age span,

00:29:21.700 they actually match pretty closely.

00:29:24.720 And that's because there's actually a fair bit of entrepreneurial drive in criminal activity.

00:29:30.860 So, for example, among drug dealers in the United States,

00:29:33.480 drug dealers are more likely than their peers to also be employed.

00:29:37.320 And so, now, I'm not making a case for the benefit of criminal entrepreneurial activity.

00:29:45.180 My point is this, is that it's very difficult to get the balance between security and freedom right, right?

00:29:52.660 And if you tilt too much towards security, you risk suppressing people to the point where you'll interfere

00:30:01.260 with creative, free enterprise expression, not just on the business side, but on the generally creative side.

00:30:09.040 And so, I know that from all reports that Dubai is an incredibly safe environment.

00:30:17.320 And, you know, you hear about, you hear exactly the same thing, for example, with regards to Singapore.

00:30:23.260 And Singapore also is doing extremely well economically.

00:30:25.840 But the question arises in my mind is that, well, are you buying that security at the price of a necessary freedom?

00:30:35.900 And what's the evidence that that's a reasonable medium to long-term trade?

00:30:42.640 So, have at or I'd like to know your thoughts on that.

00:30:47.140 Well, Jordan, if you look at the security, there are many parts of it.

00:30:51.460 Yes, one part is government interference, regulations, laws, and stuff that we maintain to maintain security and order.

00:31:01.080 But then another part goes deep into who we are, our DNA, which character we build in our people.

00:31:08.900 And that goes into the society, into the environment, into generations.

00:31:13.860 I think what we managed to do is we managed to build people, or attract even people, who can know the difference between order and chaos.

00:31:24.800 Who can know the difference between having a secured environment, safe environment, and having a creative environment, which also could be along with that environment.

00:31:39.480 I think the issue is not with how security restricts creativity, but how you actually have a room for creativity while you maintain security.

00:31:51.620 And there are many opportunities where you can see that happening in Dubai.

00:31:57.200 If you just Google Dubai, or Google, do a search on the most beautiful buildings worldwide, or when did humanity actually showcase their creativity in the way they build stuff, in the way they design stuff, you would always hear Dubai.

00:32:18.140 You would always see Dubai.

00:32:19.220 We have creative artists, designers from all over the world came to this place to actually showcase their creativity, to actually also showcase where humans can show different ideas.

00:32:34.540 We have ideas on tolerance, ideas on connectivity, ideas on culture differences and similarities.

00:32:41.780 We hosted the word expo, where almost every single country participated, designed something that represent that nation, and showed the whole world on what are their values and beliefs and their culture.

00:32:59.460 And it was like a beautiful competition where we compete on building better civilization, better future for our generations.

00:33:09.360 And that's happening right away, it was live in Expo 2020, in Dubai.

00:33:15.240 And yet, zero crimes at Expo 2020, extremely safe environment, I guess the number reached 25 million visitors to that show, the Expo 2020 show.

00:33:28.540 And you see that happening every day.

00:33:31.400 You have zones, you have clusters like the Dubai Internet City, Dubai Design District, Dubai Media City, where you have people from all over the world coming in to work and build and design something.

00:33:47.000 So I think if you design the right environment and then build the right or embed the right values in people's DNA, you can actually hit the formula right.

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00:35:08.200 Okay, okay, so let's talk about that for a minute.

00:35:11.800 I mean, one of the major contributors to criminality and general chaos in the West, and that's particularly true at the moment in the United States, is the rise of single-parent families, right?

00:35:28.240 Fatherlessness kids, especially fatherless boys, because they're much more likely to grow up to engage in untoward behavior.

00:35:35.220 And so that raises a question, which is, if you're not going to rely on oppression and the police, for example, to maintain security, but you want to build a society that's predicated on values that are solid so that security and creativity can both flourish, what are the values that you have to instantiate?

00:35:55.580 And so what do you think that you're doing right on the value side with regards to your culture that's providing this more optimized mix of security and creativity?

00:36:08.200 I think, Jordan, part of that comes from who we are.

00:36:11.980 If you look at the Arabic values, Arabic culture, the values of this region, for decades have been based on tolerance, based on accepting others, based on generosity, based on the golden rule that many different faiths and religions speaks about, that you wish for others what you wish for yourself.

00:36:35.160 We have hundreds of hundreds of quotes and examples and stories about that, that what our parents and families speaks about, that our responsibilities towards the community, towards neighbors, you will find it in our faith, you would find it in Islam, you would find it in Arabic culture.

00:36:54.240 Hospitality is a huge thing in the Arabic culture.

00:36:57.340 You would see it in the traditions, you would see it in every single part of our culture.

00:37:02.820 And looking at all of this, I think we managed to build a character.

00:37:10.340 And character building is something that somehow turned to show its results today.

00:37:18.040 Because when you build a character with the right set of values, you embed the right set of values, you actually also build immunity.

00:37:24.740 Immunity against different thoughts that may not work aligned with who we are.

00:37:34.040 And that's something very, very important for us to maintain as a legacy, that yes, we are a global city.

00:37:41.440 Yes, we are part of the whole world.

00:37:44.460 But then we also know exactly how to differentiate between what represents our value and what doesn't represent our value.

00:37:53.880 This doesn't mean that we will disrespect the other.

00:37:56.920 This doesn't mean that we may always put a block in different thoughts.

00:38:04.300 We learn, we grow.

00:38:05.840 But then when you build that immunity system, I think it works like how our body works.

00:38:11.480 It knows which vitamins or which part to take and which part to leave or actually defend against.

00:38:17.380 And that's what we made.

00:38:19.600 I think it happened.

00:38:21.720 I see it.

00:38:22.280 I see it every day.

00:38:23.400 I see it in families.

00:38:24.520 I see it in parents.

00:38:25.440 I see it in school.

00:38:26.360 I see it in universities.

00:38:27.440 Where even before you see an action in government, I think you would see people mentioning that, oh, this idea actually represents who I am.

00:38:38.020 And this doesn't represent who I am.

00:38:40.140 I think we should maintain this for the next generation.

00:38:44.580 Because you see how the world is getting scary to see where the world is heading in some areas.

00:38:52.460 You scroll down on your phone.

00:38:54.800 You may see Jordan Peterson speaks about vision and personality.

00:39:01.560 But then you swipe and see some horrible ideas on different acts or different beliefs that aims to take us back 100 years ago or 200 years ago or takes us into chaos.

00:39:16.720 And here is, I think, where we build the immunity and the wisdom of picking the right decision.

00:39:24.800 So, I'm particularly curious on the family front.

00:39:30.520 To what degree are families in the UAE still traditionally intact rather than broken?

00:39:42.300 What's your divorce rate like?

00:39:44.500 I don't know if you have those stats at hand.

00:39:46.080 And maybe you don't.

00:39:46.820 And what's the birth rate?

00:39:50.000 Because, you know, in the West, the birth rate in many countries has plummeted far below replacement.

00:39:55.360 And it's part of the fractionation of the family.

00:39:58.200 And that seems like a very, very bad long-term strategy.

00:40:01.260 So, how are you guys doing on the birth rate and divorce front?

00:40:03.760 And what's the typical structure of a family in the UAE?

00:40:07.280 Well, I usually prefer to be accurate when it comes to numbers.

00:40:12.360 But then I don't have the numbers handy yet.

00:40:16.760 If you look at how the lifestyle of families here in the United Arab Emirates, I could see my family itself.

00:40:25.700 The bonding, the family is always a big thing here.

00:40:28.940 The family always comes first.

00:40:31.700 The family always is the first guiding campus for us on where are we heading, who we are, what are our beliefs and values.

00:40:44.780 And I think we have many rituals where we actually always allocate some time to spend days, spend different occasions with family.

00:40:57.920 Like, just last week was the Eid holiday, where you'd see families gathering, it's a celebration for everyone.

00:41:05.500 And then I know most of the families around, where they meet every week.

00:41:10.780 And we used to have way bigger families before, where almost every family consists of five to six members.

00:41:20.200 Maybe with the current busy lifestyle, numbers sometimes get decreased a bit.

00:41:29.780 But I think the value of families stayed very, very strong.

00:41:35.020 Well, I've got some stats here that are very interesting.

00:41:37.840 So in 2018 in the UAE, the divorce rate stood at 12%, and then it was 13% in 2019 and 20, but it dropped in 2021 to nine and continued its downward trend in 2022 to 3%, testifying to the development of processes and interactive programs that have proven beneficial to the parties to the conflict.

00:42:02.900 So it looks like Abu Dhabi judicial outreach program succeeds in reducing divorce rate to 3%.

00:42:08.700 So it looks like you're doing pretty good on the divorce rate front.

00:42:13.820 The birth rate, let me just check that, because that's also an issue of interest.

00:42:20.960 Let's see, what have we got here on the birth rate?

00:42:23.480 1.46 per woman.

00:42:25.800 So it's low, but not as low as it is in many countries.

00:42:30.640 So now, okay, so now you talked about the values that stabilize the country, that make it secure, and that also allow for creativity.

00:42:40.080 And maybe we've gone over this, but I'm going to hit it one more time.

00:42:43.700 Those values in the Middle East have been around for a long time, including the value of hospitality.

00:42:48.260 But the region still has been extremely fractious.

00:42:53.480 Now, you've quelled that to a large degree in the UAE, and so I'm still curious about that.

00:42:58.360 You've obviously done something like universalize these values so that they can embrace a larger number of people.

00:43:05.460 But, and you said you did that through passionate leadership and vision and trust, and then fortunate economic circumstances.

00:43:14.220 And maybe that's a sufficient answer.

00:43:16.780 Maybe we'll turn to something else.

00:43:19.100 Yes, a couple of other things.

00:43:22.660 What's the situation with women's rights in the UAE? 1.00

00:43:25.920 And how is that similar or different to the state that obtains in the countries around you?

00:43:33.420 Well, the case for women's rights and gender balance in the UAE is very, very unique.

00:43:41.900 I think it's competitive worldwide.

00:43:45.420 If you look at the workforce in our government, for example, more than 60% are women. 0.71

00:43:52.220 I have worked in 12 different jobs.

00:43:55.780 Six of them, I had female managers in many cases. 1.00

00:43:59.980 Women's rights is something we have been raising and growing and having it as a priority. 0.99

00:44:12.800 It's part of who we are, again.

00:44:15.220 I have a daughter who I think every single member of this family have celebrated from the day she was born.

00:44:27.560 When she is born, she got a letter from the UAE president telling her that we want you to actually represent the values of the late Sheikh Zayed.

00:44:38.800 We want you to carry that legacy forward and then women get educated. 1.00

00:44:44.900 And I think we are on the top highest rates from moving to school to university worldwide in terms of how many graduates women we have. 0.99

00:44:56.360 I think the rights women have in every aspect of the quality of life here in the United Arab Emirates.

00:45:06.080 You could see the balance.

00:45:08.660 You could see the support.

00:45:13.780 You could see everyone enable her to flourish, enable her to be with she, to build a family, to build a career, to build a success.

00:45:23.640 Look at marriage.

00:45:26.300 There are hundreds of policies to actually support marriage.

00:45:31.580 Look at being in the workforce.

00:45:36.100 There are lots of policies.

00:45:37.860 Now, with hybrid model of work, with flexibility in hours and timings and attendance and all this stuff,

00:45:46.180 I think it made it even, not only easier, but also made it even safe to be who you are.

00:45:56.720 If you decided to focus on your family or you focus on your studies or focus on your office working hours or focus on your career growth or your business,

00:46:06.960 you can basically get support and the government will handle its responsibility

00:46:11.340 and families will handle its responsibility to celebrate you wherever you are.

00:46:16.280 And so you may hear that many people actually call, let's say, my name is Saeed,

00:46:23.680 but some people call me Abu Shammah, which means the father of Shammah.

00:46:28.500 And we have that in our Arabic tradition where they know that the most valuable thing for a man is his daughter or his son.

00:46:36.040 So they name me after my daughter.

00:46:38.860 That's how much we respect, actually, women or how much I respect my daughter.

00:46:45.480 And actually, I feel proud every time I hear her name.

00:46:48.740 And I want to be the best father I could or be the best employee I could for her and for many others.

00:46:56.200 So, now, it seems to me, although Saudi Arabia has been liberalizing its attitude towards women's rights in recent years,

00:47:07.860 it seems to me that there's a marked difference between the UAE and Saudi Arabia on the women's rights front.

00:47:14.200 And so, why did those two societies develop in different directions?

00:47:19.140 And what do you see happening in Saudi Arabia on the women's rights front? 1.00

00:47:24.380 Well, I like how I think the region is diverse.

00:47:31.980 If you spend time in Dubai and then go and spend time in Cairo or spend time in Masqat or spend time in Oman, it's different.

00:47:40.420 Yes, there are common values.

00:47:42.240 There are always Arabic language.

00:47:44.480 There is always Islamic traditions.

00:47:46.700 But then the way the societies live or grow is completely different.

00:47:52.440 There's different opinions.

00:47:54.020 There are different points of views.

00:47:56.960 And I think the region is somehow heading to a very bright, positive side.

00:48:03.980 I see something happening in the region.

00:48:06.180 I see hope in the region.

00:48:07.680 When I meet young Arabs, when I meet decision makers in their report, Dubai just hosted World Expo.

00:48:16.380 And now Saudi Arabia is applying to host World Expo.

00:48:19.700 Doha hosted the World Cup.

00:48:21.120 You have many other cities are planning to build new cities, build on new islands, have new tourism experiences.

00:48:29.200 And I think that goes back to an event that I attended in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, where the Crown Prince had a talk there.

00:48:38.720 And he said back in the 90s, he saw a man or a leader that showed and proved to the whole region what could be possible and how to design and build something global out of this region.

00:48:57.280 And that person was Hizayna Sheikh Mohammed, the UAE Prime Minister.

00:49:02.240 It made me feel proud at that moment of who we are and what's our impact.

00:49:09.420 But then I see it everywhere, Jordan.

00:49:11.680 I don't see it only on GCC.

00:49:13.500 I even see it across the globe.

00:49:16.320 I see articles.

00:49:17.540 I saw an article on BBC where it was about the next Dubai of Africa.

00:49:25.180 Where could be the next Dubai be in Africa?

00:49:27.900 Where could be where are the next growing cities in the Middle East or many different areas?

00:49:33.260 I like how the UAE, how Dubai, how Abu Dhabi became a model that works and that shows you can actually achieve what your dreams or vision are in a very short time.

00:49:47.260 In your age, in my age, we can actually build a whole nation.

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00:51:08.940 So let's talk about, I'd like to talk about the international scene a little bit now.

00:51:15.320 And so, how are your relationships with your immediate neighbors?

00:51:23.120 And so I want to know that.

00:51:25.460 And what direct influence do you think the success of the UAE has had on their development strategies?

00:51:33.300 Let's start with that.

00:51:34.160 How are your relationships with your immediate neighbors?

00:51:36.380 Who are your strong allies?

00:51:38.040 Who do you feel that you're collaborating with to build a more positive vision of the future on the Arab side?

00:51:45.160 Okay.

00:51:45.600 I'm not a diplomat.

00:51:47.260 I won't speak on behalf of our embassies or our ambassadors.

00:51:52.680 But what I see is UAE have maintained a positive relationship, a respecting relationship with almost every single country worldwide.

00:52:02.840 That's why we gain trust from many different countries.

00:52:06.320 That's why we became the world, a smaller world in this nation.

00:52:10.700 You would see us participating in every single mission or act that helps humanity grow.

00:52:21.300 Look at the numbers.

00:52:22.520 Look at the numbers.

00:52:23.900 You would see the UAE always among the top five when it comes to foreign aid, when it comes to support humanitarian activities.

00:52:32.480 That goes back to 1971.

00:52:34.000 You would see many hospitals, many schools, many universities, many clinics worldwide are named after the late Sheikh Zayed or named after the UAE.

00:52:46.620 Just recently, I was in Washington, D.C. and I met a friend of mine there.

00:52:51.860 He told me, I actually go for my clinic appointments to a hospital where the UAE invested heavily in for its research, for its services.

00:53:04.000 In Washington, D.C.

00:53:05.920 And the same, you would hear it in many different countries where actually you would see the UAE's and its leadership footprint there, that there is something good happening.

00:53:19.060 There is that what again built credibility in this country.

00:53:23.040 That's again built why this country is special.

00:53:26.680 This country is different.

00:53:27.820 You would hear many head of states speak proudly about their partnership with the UAE.

00:53:35.880 It's a small country, but it showed the whole world that you could actually have a huge impact.

00:53:42.840 What's your relationship?

00:53:44.640 Let's talk a little bit about the Abraham Accords and your relationship with Israel.

00:53:48.060 What's happening on that front?

00:53:49.760 And what are the challenges and advantages to such initiatives?

00:53:54.200 You have lived it, you have heard it for 20, 30 years.

00:54:01.280 Conflicts and tensions, we didn't see a result.

00:54:05.920 I think there were no winners in conflicts and tensions.

00:54:10.880 The UAE took a whole different direction.

00:54:14.060 The UAE took the direction of actually looking at peace and tolerance, but then be brave and bold enough to act on peace and tolerance.

00:54:23.360 We all want, we all in campaigns and strategies say that we want to be more tolerant, more accepting, more respecting.

00:54:34.020 But then what proves all these campaigns or all these beautiful messages is what are your actions or what are your movements toward peace?

00:54:45.240 And I think that's something we have shown very clearly in the UAE, where you would see everyone from any nationality, any religion that will feel respected, it will feel safe, and actually feel inspired.

00:55:01.840 Feel inspired to accept the other and feel inspired to see what brings us together.

00:55:07.280 I can spend this hour, Jordan, to speak about how close we are when it comes to thoughts, or I can also look at it from a very dark lens where we see how different we are.

00:55:19.980 I think we chose the right lens, we chose to be also a beacon of hope, to send that message loud, to even inspire others.

00:55:30.200 If it works in the UAE, and you see peace actually in action in the UAE, you see respecting different cultures and nations are happening here right now.

00:55:42.400 So why do you want to wait for you to actually be more tolerant?

00:55:49.040 I think no one will win against tolerance.

00:55:53.240 So you mentioned earlier that you see in Dubai a competition between different modes of productivity and generosity, let's say.

00:56:08.100 Who can make the best offer?

00:56:09.560 You know, and I've been thinking this through on the religious front, in the world, we have three major religions emerging from the Middle East, all part of the Abrahamic tradition, all monotheistic, all people of the book,

00:56:28.080 embroiled internally in conflict over nominally religious matters for centuries in the West and in the Middle East, and then also engaged in conflict between the major religions.

00:56:42.460 And it seems to me that, you know, we're at a point in our historical development where what we should be engaging in is something like a competition of invitation.

00:56:51.440 And you could say, well, you know, if you have faith in your tradition, then you could be an avatar of that tradition, and you could live in the most noble manner you could possibly imagine.

00:57:02.060 And if you turn out to be a shining beacon on the hill and other people are attracted, well, then you win, and that's a good competition.

00:57:10.120 And now, I know there have been multi-faith initiatives in UAE.

00:57:16.000 It has a tradition of, I don't think religious tolerance is exactly the right word. 0.83

00:57:20.960 It's more like something approximating a genuine appreciation for diversity.

00:57:26.940 Do you want to talk a little bit about what's been happening in the UAE on the faith side?

00:57:33.020 Because I think that strikes me as extremely important.

00:57:37.460 In the UAE, you would find mosques, you would find churches, you would find synagogues.

00:57:43.200 We have the Abrahamic House in Boulbabi.

00:57:46.160 I think what we have been building here in the UAE is actually an environment where we respect every single religion and we respect our differences in a way that we accept others, we accept what's different, and we focus on what brings us together.

00:58:07.660 Like, I had a conversation with many from different faiths, and we were speaking about leadership building and about character building.

00:58:18.860 And then the name Prophet Moses came, a prophet who we do respect.

00:58:23.920 And the counterparty spoke to me about a leadership program where they designed based on the journey of Prophet Moses and how he actually became who he is and who he was.

00:58:39.340 And that's something we really appreciate in the Islamic culture and Islamic tradition, because that story is in our Quran, you would see it in the Bible, you would see it in many other books.

00:58:49.320 And I think focusing on areas where we see how different faith brings different messages or different stories or different values and see where are the common areas.

00:59:07.220 I think that's where our strength comes from.

00:59:09.520 And there are hundreds and thousands of areas where you could agree, and I could agree, and many other people from many different faiths could agree that, yes, this is part of who we are, or this is part of who we believe in, or this is the God we worship.

00:59:25.780 And that's how we worship Him, and that's how we actually serve our nation, our planet, our community.

00:59:33.920 Well, one of the most remarkable initiatives that I've seen in recent years, along with the Abraham Accords, which established peace between Israel and a variety of Arab states, is the Abrahamic Family House, which is a very impressive complex that has on the same site a mosque, a church, and a synagogue.

00:59:57.260 And, you know, that seems to me to be symbolically emblematic of what's happening in the UAE.

01:00:05.500 Now, that just opened recently, I believe, right?

01:00:09.320 That's opened, what, in the last, is it the last six months?

01:00:12.360 It's certainly within the last year.

01:00:13.780 Yes, it is.

01:00:14.400 And so, what has been the consequence of that enterprise, and how was it set in motion?

01:00:24.080 Why did it succeed?

01:00:25.040 Today, I was spending some time on social media, and a video of a student, I think almost seven years old, a student, came up, that he actually went to a tour with his family to that Abrahamic house.

01:00:41.000 And he was telling the whole world, I think, sorry, he was among 10, 12 years old, I'm not sure how old he was.

01:00:48.780 But he was telling the whole world that, oh, look at this place where actually Muslims, Christians, Jews could worship in different buildings that represent their different worships or different faiths.

01:01:03.000 Worshiping one God, worshiping one God, actually happened here right away in Dubai, in Abu Dhabi.

01:01:10.620 This place is public.

01:01:13.340 It built on an idea that's simple, yet bold and sharp.

01:01:18.300 Just think about it.

01:01:23.300 Many different religions, faiths, people from many different faiths, coming together in one place, living with peace.

01:01:33.320 It's actually possible.

01:01:35.260 It's happening.

01:01:36.300 You don't need a magic stick for it to happen.

01:01:38.320 You will need to design the right environment for it to happen.

01:01:42.880 The right conversations, the right dialogue, the right inspiration for the next generation.

01:01:48.500 And I don't see any challenge to bring it to life, to bring us, all of us, together and closer.

01:01:57.500 Yeah.

01:01:58.340 Well, wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

01:02:00.280 I mean, you know, I was ill for a couple of years and wasn't paying much attention to initiatives on the international front.

01:02:08.280 But when I sort of sprang back to life in 2020, one of the first things I turned my attention to was the Abraham Accords and the fact that something genuinely new and positive seemed to be emerging in the Middle East.

01:02:23.000 And, like, it was a big deal.

01:02:24.040 And I was quite stunned by, in some ways, by how little attention was paid to that in the West, because it struck me as one of the most vital developments on the international front, well, certainly in the last 50 to 70 years, but perhaps even beyond that, especially if it's allied, as you're pointing out, with an actual transformation of vision.

01:02:45.860 You know, if we could tilt things, the collective we, if we could tilt things so that we started to regard people of faith, let's say, as allies instead of as mortal enemies, then God only knows what we could produce.

01:03:00.500 And I would also say that the people of the Abrahamic faiths, let's say, have bigger fish to fry on the enmity front than each other. 0.99

01:03:09.020 You know, there's, and this is particularly relevant in the West, if the traditional religious structures collapse, all sorts of bizarre systems of belief make themselves manifest as a replacement.

01:03:26.040 And as far as I can tell, those replacements aren't all that desirable.

01:03:29.860 And so it's, it seems to me to be only wise on the part of Jews, Christians, and Muslims to look to what they have in common and to foster that.

01:03:42.980 And it's very, very heartening to see a country like the UAE, which can punch above its weight and which is small enough to be governable, but large enough to be a model to actually take the initiative on this front.

01:03:54.100 I'm, I'm very much looking forward, I'm going to go to UAE, I think I'm going in October, in early October, I'm very much looking forward to going to Abu Dhabi and seeing this tri-faith establishment, that's for sure.

01:04:07.080 And then also, obviously, to see the other cities.

01:04:09.460 I'm very much looking forward to that, because I think it's a huge deal.

01:04:12.440 This is, this is something of historical significance, the establishment of the Abrahamic house, you know, the fact that you were able to do it, that it's been successful.

01:04:20.940 I know that it was in, let me see here, the Pope visited in 2019.

01:04:30.080 It was the first by a Pope to the Arabian Peninsula.

01:04:33.900 During that trip, he signed a joint declaration with the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar that called for religious tolerance and dialogue.

01:04:41.580 It's like, well, you know, hey, a little more of that would be a very, very good thing.

01:04:46.800 So that's all extraordinarily positive.

01:04:49.680 And so, all right, so let's turn our attention a little bit more specifically to the sorts of projects that you've been involved with.

01:05:00.980 You have spearheaded 50 projects, a lot of them concentrating on youth.

01:05:06.680 So why don't you delve into what you've been doing on that front?

01:05:10.240 Because I'm very curious.

01:05:12.220 We talked before, this is partly what brought this podcast about.

01:05:15.500 We had a conversation previously about what might be done on the psychological front to end the demoralization of young people and to provide them with a certain amount of hope.

01:05:28.040 And it's certainly the case that helping young people develop a vision for the future is, well, an obvious necessity, but also an extraordinarily cost-effective and efficient way of guiding developing souls into a beneficial and productive and generous future.

01:05:48.300 You've been doing such things for a very long time.

01:05:51.360 So why don't you walk us through some of your projects?

01:05:54.900 So, Jordan, I'm also very excited for you to visit and experience the UAE.

01:06:02.160 And one part of UAE being a young country, most of our population are actually young people.

01:06:08.180 Almost 50% of the UAE's population are young, under the age of 35.

01:06:15.160 The UAE government have established a Minister of State for Youth Affairs and have established, I think, it took the boldest and biggest steps when it comes to youth empowerment.

01:06:27.560 You would hear people speaking about youth empowerment in many different countries, in panel discussion and roundtables.

01:06:36.300 And in many occasions, these are strategies that management consultant offered, 500-pager strategies that end up in the desk or sometimes end up to be a recommendation or a discussion.

01:06:49.720 And you don't see it all from a reality or you don't see actual steps taken by the government to transform all these recommendations into actionable results or facts and figures.

01:07:04.220 The case is completely different in the United Arab Emirates.

01:07:08.300 I used to work as a Director General for the Federal Youth Authority.

01:07:14.880 My main ultimate mandate was to actually ensure we design the right environment for young people to reach their full potential.

01:07:25.000 And today, if you look at the young people of the United Arab Emirates, you would see that spark in their eyes.

01:07:31.520 They want to be part of something bigger.

01:07:34.720 That's something that I always wanted to be part of.

01:07:38.120 Back in 2009, when I was a high school student, like many other young people, I thought, what would I want to be part of?

01:07:48.840 Why do I do? Where am I heading? What's the work I want to accomplish? Or what are my achievements?

01:07:58.680 One ultimate source of inspiration was the UAE leadership.

01:08:02.600 I saw the Prime Minister working on many different projects, working on delivering different clusters, different economic achievements, different stuff when it comes to infrastructure and so on.

01:08:19.140 So like many other young people, I went and asked the big question on where I'm heading.

01:08:27.220 Where do I want to be 10 years from now?

01:08:31.300 That was back in 2009.

01:08:33.280 So I found the Prime Minister's webpage.

01:08:36.940 And back then, Hotmail was something cool and everyone used to mail others.

01:08:42.660 And I found a link to actually email the Prime Minister.

01:08:46.520 And I ended up emailing the Prime Minister, telling him that I'm amazed with all these achievements.

01:08:53.980 I'm amazed with the way you transform vision and reality.

01:08:58.640 And I want to be part of this.

01:09:00.400 I want to be part of your team.

01:09:01.820 I want to be part of this purpose.

01:09:03.480 I want to actually help others the way I saw you guys inspired me.

01:09:12.080 Inspired me to be part of something bigger.

01:09:14.500 And I sent that email.

01:09:15.660 In many countries, you would think there are 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 of the emails goes to the leadership and are sometimes ending up with assistance.

01:09:27.580 I didn't have big expectation.

01:09:30.400 I thought maybe, maybe one day among the 100 or 1,000 emails that my email could reach to the Prime Minister.

01:09:38.560 Surprisingly enough, a few days later, I get an email.

01:09:45.520 It says, Dear Saint, Ambitious is great.

01:09:50.660 Work hard.

01:09:51.800 Look at the role models around.

01:09:53.760 Believe in what we are building.

01:09:55.820 And one day you will have the opportunity because every single young person here in this country would have an opportunity.

01:10:02.300 It was signed personally by the Prime Minister himself.

01:10:05.720 I kept that email printed and framed in my office.

01:10:12.800 I remember 10 years from that email.

01:10:16.040 I met the Prime Minister for one of the events.

01:10:19.120 He was in my office.

01:10:21.420 During that time, the smile I saw, the moment I lived, I felt every second.

01:10:29.440 And deep inside, I felt that's the power of having the right role model.

01:10:35.720 That's the power of actually having and visualizing a vision and then working hard for that vision to happen.

01:10:43.420 And that's the moment where I thought I should be part of and be responsible to help others find their goal, find their path, find their role models.

01:10:58.180 That's when I ended up being part of the youth empowerment initiatives and policies.

01:11:04.400 We have many policies and projects where it sets young people into their priority.

01:11:11.400 They are the ones who design their strategy.

01:11:14.040 They are the ones who design their policies.

01:11:15.820 We used to have circles where we actually have the top decision makers, young people, students, discussing certain problems or certain challenges, and then actually empower them to design the solution.

01:11:33.140 Stuff related to education, to mental health, to housing.

01:11:36.060 And let me give you an example on housing.

01:11:40.320 We had the public policy advisor.

01:11:45.180 We had a decision maker participating in one of the circles.

01:11:48.560 And we were, young people, discussing, well, building a house is not a task that is as easy as we think because many of us are not designers or not engineers.

01:11:58.240 And sometimes you will need proper budgeting, you would need proper timeline, processes, and so on.

01:12:04.400 And we discussed maybe part of the solution could be actually to have a one-on-one fundamental course or guideline to help young people take that step.

01:12:16.060 And there were, the government, a week later, signed a policy by the prime minister where actually it took quips and train people to take that milestone forward, to actually be prepared to build their house.

01:12:30.920 And we have the same for building a family.

01:12:33.980 We have the same to actually joining a workforce or a university.

01:12:38.760 We have a lot of enablers and we have policies.

01:12:40.780 Okay, the same meaning, okay, yeah, okay, so the same meaning, you talked about family, you talked about career, you talked about education.

01:12:50.600 These enabling processes, what exactly do you do and how many people is that affecting and how do you know what the effect is?

01:13:00.160 So how do you enable the young people on all these fronts?

01:13:03.640 Well, we design products, products and policies and services.

01:13:07.060 So one example, we have a policy where in every single government authority or department or agency, you allocate a seat for young people where a young person would be part of that board, would be part of that board meeting, would be part of that discussion to actually transfer young people's views into the ultimate decision-making layer at that authority.

01:13:30.460 That's one, that policy is signed, you have seats allocated for young people, you wouldn't find that in any government worldwide, where we allocate a seat for young person in every single board.

01:13:43.380 Another initiative or policy was actually designing different youth councils across the country, across institutions, across cities.

01:13:54.280 We have the Dubai Youth Council, we have the Dubai Youth Council, the Abu Dhabi Youth Council, we have councils across companies like Emirates Youth Council, DP Wards Youth Council, we have agencies and ministries where you have the Ministry of Economy Youth Council.

01:14:08.760 This Youth Council acts as representation of what young people aspire from these different ministries or these different corporations, and they sit high enough to have a direct engagement with the leadership.

01:14:28.820 So they actually have some influence.

01:14:31.280 Exactly.

01:14:32.140 It's not just pro forma.

01:14:33.660 Yes, they do have influence, they have the toolkit, they have the support, they have the enablers.

01:14:38.760 And I think what's very, very special in the United Arab Emirates is that direct bonding between young people and the leadership.

01:14:49.480 Go in the streets, in the neighbourhood, during your visit.

01:14:52.440 A random survey on how many young Emiratis actually met the president himself, you would find numbers and answers that you couldn't find in any other country worldwide.

01:15:06.600 In fact, our president, our president, as I know, Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed, I think he designed an engagement model between leadership and young people that doesn't exist anywhere.

01:15:19.240 He opens his place every week, sometimes every Monday, sometimes every Tuesday, where anyone, I could go and visit and discuss some of my aspirations or discuss some of the challenges I'm facing.

01:15:33.260 He is part of where are we heading.

01:15:37.320 I think when I got married, I got a letter from him on congratulations on your marriage.

01:15:45.400 And then he also, I have met him almost five times.

01:15:50.460 That's me.

01:15:51.040 I think there are hundreds of others and thousands of people who met him maybe 10 times or 20 times.

01:15:56.240 But that built the trust.

01:15:59.740 So if you look at the formula on why the UAE is successful in terms of youth, in terms of economy, we have the vision.

01:16:07.080 We have a leadership that we trust.

01:16:09.820 And we trust because they represent who we are when it comes to values.

01:16:14.380 But they also show performance.

01:16:18.020 Performance that is exceptional.

01:16:19.980 I think if you look at the achievements and the deliverables and the policies signed during crisis, during hardest times, it shows that this leadership not only cares about this country, but cares also about the generation which would come 10, 20, 30 years from now.

01:16:41.920 And part of it comes from the responsibility of representing the founding father's value.

01:16:50.920 I remember one of the occasions where the UAE president had to meet one of the state leaders in one of the buildings.

01:16:59.280 And I was there at that building and I saw his agenda.

01:17:03.340 I know he had a long program then.

01:17:05.940 While he walked in, in the building, he actually spent time to have a direct interaction.

01:17:13.900 He came not only to say hi, but to also ask about any challenges we face or ask about our dreams, have that conversation.

01:17:25.800 I think what this leadership show in the United Arab Emirates, it gives people the value, the value they deserve.

01:17:34.200 I have been living in the United Arab Emirates, I never, ever saw any part of the ruling family cross a signal, the street.

01:17:45.440 I saw them in our weddings.

01:17:47.500 I saw them in our, with us in our hardest time.

01:17:51.120 I saw them actually leading projects and going into the field to see their projects and vision coming to life.

01:17:58.920 And I don't, and you would see that and you would experience that during your visit because it's facts and figures, it's numbers, it's achievements.

01:18:08.960 It's not an emotional opinion, but it's a credible opinion.

01:18:14.100 Do you feel like there's, there, I would say there's widespread demoralization among young people in the West.

01:18:22.260 And I think that's particularly true of young men.

01:18:27.220 And I think the reasons are basically threefold.

01:18:32.140 The first is, is that we do a very bad job of managing the play preference and the activity preference of boys in our early education system.

01:18:43.240 And so our elementary schools are not well designed for what boys need.

01:18:48.660 And then, on the ideological front, we insist at every possible turn that any manifestation of masculine ambition is part of the system of patriarchal oppression that's, what would you call, wreaked havoc in a demonic way since the beginning of time.

01:19:08.820 And so the boys learn to identify their ambition with pathological power.

01:19:15.100 And then if they manage to escape those two things, then the next thing they're told is that all human activity is nothing but destructive, that we're taking the planet into an environmental apocalypse and that everything's going to collapse.

01:19:27.920 In any case, and it's the fault of human action.

01:19:32.080 And the combination of those three things is, you could add pornography into the mix just to mop up any boys that might have escaped from those three things.

01:19:41.520 And we've done a pretty spectacular job of demoralizing young people in the West, and it's not pretty.

01:19:47.580 And so would you say that in the UAE, that the young people that are part of your culture are looking to the future with hope?

01:19:55.540 I mean, I know you're putting forward an optimistic vision, and it's a credible vision, and it's credible because there are markers of its success, right?

01:20:05.780 It's not just talk.

01:20:07.020 But you know, at least to some degree, what's happening in the West on the ideological front and the demoralization front.

01:20:13.760 Do you think that you guys have been successful at providing a positive vision and motivating, well, young men in particular?

01:20:20.720 We talked about young women already.

01:20:22.500 You've got the women's rights approach fully active. 0.99

01:20:26.800 You said women are well integrated into your culture at every level. 1.00

01:20:30.360 Are your young people looking forward to the future with a certain degree of hope?

01:20:35.460 So, Jordan, I have studied with young people, worked with young people, and also been offering public service to young people.

01:20:45.140 Part of my mandate was to actually interact with young people on a daily basis.

01:20:49.180 And what I saw is not just hope.

01:20:53.220 I actually saw a drive, a drive to build something big, to build the next big thing for this nation, to actually turn another impossible into possible.

01:21:04.060 And we have many examples on stuff that happens in schools and universities.

01:21:09.880 Ten years ago, if you asked a young man, would you ever dream to go to this space?

01:21:19.880 Or what would be your dream?

01:21:23.160 I don't think the answer about going or exploring a space would exist back then in that report.

01:21:30.980 It was something almost impossible.

01:21:34.300 It was something that's far away.

01:21:36.400 You don't see young Arabs actually exploring space for decades, for 30, 40 years.

01:21:43.340 Now, if you go to the schools in the United Arab Emirates and meet many young kids and young men, many of them would say,

01:21:52.500 we want to be the next astronaut who goes and explore space.

01:21:56.720 Because they have someone and they have a role model that exists today.

01:22:01.340 We ticked that box.

01:22:04.100 We made it possible.

01:22:05.560 We turned something impossible into possible.

01:22:08.960 We turned the whole dream into an actual visual story.

01:22:14.400 And we have many of these stories in the UAE where actually men could see others do it.

01:22:21.960 And they feel that, oh, I can also do it.

01:22:25.040 I can also design my own startup.

01:22:27.200 I can also be part of this mission.

01:22:28.880 I can also be part of this program.

01:22:33.280 Actually, if you look at the cabinet, many members of the cabinets are young ministers.

01:22:39.020 They are under the age of 35.

01:22:40.900 They are under the age of 30.

01:22:43.420 They are ministers of economy, ministers of artificial intelligence, minister of youth affairs, minister of community development.

01:22:51.660 And in a way, showcase again hope in many different formats.

01:22:56.860 And that goes back to the whole region.

01:23:02.920 There were a survey called the Arab Youth Survey.

01:23:06.040 Now they did it almost 10 times.

01:23:08.820 Every time they questioned almost 3,000 young Arabs.

01:23:13.540 Every time the UAE became the ideal location for them to actually follow their dreams.

01:23:21.260 And every time they saw the UAE model as a model of hope and a model of optimistic future.

01:23:28.760 And not only when it comes to views or how we see the future, but actually how we design it and how we build it.

01:23:36.200 You go and walk in the United Arab Emirates, you would find incubators everywhere for young entrepreneurs.

01:23:43.560 You would find youth hubs where actually, either if you were an artist, a musician, a scholar, a writer, a researcher, where you can have a whole path.

01:23:54.500 One thing that we did very well, Jordan, is basically we taught people how to find their point B and then how to go and walk that way toward point B.

01:24:10.400 Because not knowing the destination is scary and it creates that gap.

01:24:17.180 And hopeless.

01:24:18.000 Yes, exactly.

01:24:19.120 If you look at most of the challenges Arab youth face, a big part of it, because many of them are hopeless or many of them didn't find hope in a way.

01:24:29.040 Almost 70% of PhD holders in the Arab world are living outside the Arab world.

01:24:36.400 And there where we have an initiative called the Greater Arab Minds, an initiative that was launched last year.

01:24:44.440 The ultimate idea and purpose and objective of this initiative is actually to build role models in medicine, in physics, in chemistry, in economy, in technology and engineering and in design.

01:25:01.480 It's an award that's not only contributes with the financial rewards, but actually it's recognized different contribution, it's recognized the gems we have in the Arab world.

01:25:16.040 For so long, many of our scientists and scholars were hidden gems in our society and sadly in our communities in the Arab world. 0.83

01:25:25.860 If you look at the numbers, many are leaving the Arab world and that's something, I don't mind people chasing their future anywhere, but then we should also understand that the Arab world needs them the most.

01:25:40.800 It needs more role models for the 108 million young Arabs in science and economy and design.

01:25:47.000 That's where the UAE came up with this initiative, which I'm currently busy with, is actually not to explore who are our hidden gems and turn them into visible gems, but also to recognize them, to empower them, to reward them.

01:26:03.760 Sometimes all what they need is a pat on the back.

01:26:06.280 They want someone to tell them, well done, you have done it.

01:26:09.820 You are a role model for our kids.

01:26:11.740 And sometimes we do that late.

01:26:15.480 You have many names in that report.

01:26:17.860 Like look at Zaha Hadid.

01:26:19.600 She was a designer. 0.64

01:26:21.800 She built and designed buildings in many different places in the whole world.

01:26:27.040 I think today we value her and we notice her value.

01:26:33.100 But then who is our current Zaha Hadid?

01:26:35.680 Who is our current Ibn Khaldun of psychology?

01:26:38.860 Who is our current Khawarizmi in the whole Arab world? 0.98

01:26:44.080 And that's what we are trying to find.

01:26:46.160 And I think this is the ultimate message of hope and confidence.

01:26:51.560 Because part of what we do is we build confidence in people.

01:26:56.220 If the UAE made it, if someone made it to the space station, if someone built a city in 50 years,

01:27:03.840 the most ideal and one of the world's best cities, you can also do it.

01:27:09.620 So let's turn for a moment to tell me a little bit about what problems you see besetting the UAE.

01:27:19.840 What are the major challenges that you guys are dealing with at the moment?

01:27:23.360 And maybe we can conclude after that with a description of where you'd like to see things head over the next 10 years.

01:27:29.700 But let's start with challenges.

01:27:31.180 What are the major challenges that you face in the UAE?

01:27:35.180 I think we face challenges that are similar challenges that many nations and generations are facing worldwide.

01:27:45.260 One thing is the impact of social media and the impact of bringing everything closer.

01:27:55.160 Well, that had a very positive impact on doing business, on work, on studying, on education.

01:28:07.160 But also showed some threats that I see in many different areas worldwide.

01:28:16.060 People are losing their identity.

01:28:18.300 They are losing their hope.

01:28:19.840 Or sometimes, I don't know how can I define what we see in many different parts of the whole world.

01:28:27.880 So my ultimate goal always, that's I see it for myself and my family,

01:28:34.400 how to ensure that we have that immunity and we have that guarding values

01:28:41.140 to ensure that not only my generation can take the right decision,

01:28:46.180 but my daughter's generation could take, again, the right decision

01:28:49.280 and her next generation could also take the right generation. 0.92

01:28:53.740 Well, the problem with that information influx, as you said, is very, very rich.

01:28:59.460 But it's also sufficiently overwhelming to be a dissolvent and an agent of chaos, right?

01:29:09.480 I mean, when you have access to everything, it's hard to be something.

01:29:14.100 And we don't know what this extension of our nervous system,

01:29:18.100 because that's definitely what the social media platforms are,

01:29:21.140 we don't know what that extension exactly is going to do for us.

01:29:24.240 And, you know, you made reference back to some of the earlier points you made in the discussion,

01:29:28.100 is that you guys are trying to identify your core values

01:29:32.060 and to leave them in bedrock position in your culture.

01:29:37.420 And you're hoping that that will enable your young people to turn to the benefits of our interconnectedness

01:29:42.740 without falling prey to the possibility of chaos being induced.

01:29:48.300 You know, it's very hard to set up a complex information system that's optimally interconnected.

01:29:55.660 So the brain is set up so that it has areas that only communicate locally,

01:30:02.240 and then those areas communicate distally.

01:30:05.380 Like every neuron isn't connected to every other neuron.

01:30:08.740 You get nothing but chaos in that situation.

01:30:11.040 And so there has to be a balance between order and stability and connectivity.

01:30:16.880 And we are all wrestling with that around the world, right?

01:30:19.780 I mean, these new technologies are absolutely amazing,

01:30:22.080 but they definitely do have the possibility of spreading chaos at the same rate they distribute benevolent information.

01:30:31.100 I think that, again, goes to the way we want this generation to raise and grow.

01:30:40.320 Part of it we take full responsibility on.

01:30:43.280 I think we should take full accountability and responsibility on what are the values we want to embed

01:30:53.620 in the community's DNA, in our family's DNA, and how do we do that often in different doses.

01:31:00.960 We do it in school, we do it at home, we do it in university, we do it in workplaces.

01:31:06.520 I'll give you an example.

01:31:09.700 I had a program called the National Values Program here at the United Arab Emirates.

01:31:14.640 And one of the main products of that program was to actually measure values in the society and in the community.

01:31:23.200 So we used to do social experiments.

01:31:26.460 And then one of the social experiments, I said,

01:31:28.720 OK, let's take a permission where we have a car by the side of the street where someone who needs help with his mechanics of his car,

01:31:40.660 his car is not working, it's at 2 p.m. afternoon in the summer,

01:31:45.720 it's a time where maybe most people would be busy having lunch with their families.

01:31:50.140 And we said, let's record that and see how many actually young Emiratis would come and provide help or provide support.

01:32:01.600 Jordan, in one hour, the number of people who actually stopped and paused their journey to wherever they were heading

01:32:12.000 and paused by and parked beside that car to actually offer help, it was more than 15 young people.

01:32:22.020 They decided to actually, voluntarily, something in them felt that, oh, I should offer help.

01:32:29.580 And that's something I see on a daily basis.

01:32:31.880 I don't think you will see a single incident where we think twice before providing support or before providing help to people around.

01:32:46.920 And that's that value.

01:32:48.600 That's part of that tradition of hospitality.

01:32:50.900 Yes, that was part of our generation's hospitality and the way we have been raised.

01:32:56.200 But then my ultimate concern is always, I have to be as good as my father and my grandfather and building that and my daughter

01:33:08.240 and building that in the next generation to ensure that I embed the same values that grows in her the way I saw it happening in me and in many other people.

01:33:19.600 During one of my latest visits, I was waiting for a plane.

01:33:24.980 And watching the news on TV.

01:33:28.920 And there were an incident in one of the cities in the Western world where someone was being killed in a subway.

01:33:37.200 And people were filming that.

01:33:39.380 And people were standing still and filming that.

01:33:42.020 It's scary.

01:33:43.080 To me, at that moment, I felt, where are we heading as human beings?

01:33:48.580 That's something I don't want to ever see, not in 50 years, but in 100 years in our country.

01:33:54.040 And I'm sure it won't happen because we are taking full responsibility and accountability on defining who we are.

01:34:01.720 Because that has been happening since 1971 and it will keep happening until 2071 for the years ahead.

01:34:10.840 But then also that reminds me to a story we all know, Cain and Abel.

01:34:16.320 I think, yes, Cain was angry.

01:34:21.980 He was jealous of his brother.

01:34:24.060 And he ended up killing him.

01:34:26.160 But then if you look at the world today, I think Cain and Abel exist almost in every single community.

01:34:32.120 And sometimes maybe some people would say they exist even in you.

01:34:38.600 But then you decide on who wins.

01:34:41.420 And you decide that you're never allowed to kill Abel in your community or you kill Abel in yourself.

01:34:47.380 And that's something very, very important to us.

01:34:50.400 Because we know that sometimes in some communities, and we saw it happening, people lose it.

01:34:59.420 I think they lose the idea of being a human being.

01:35:03.860 The being part gets lost.

01:35:06.660 They don't define their values or they don't define what's right and what's wrong.

01:35:12.560 I think that's something we do very well.

01:35:14.500 And my ultimate passion is to continue to do that.

01:35:20.020 I want to close this with an invitation to you.

01:35:24.660 I've been working with a group of people centered in London, but with active participants all through Europe and Australia and Canada and the US.

01:35:38.880 And then increasingly in other places in the world where we can manage the reach.

01:35:46.320 We have a conference coming up in London at the end of October, October 31st, 30th, 31st and November 1st.

01:35:54.340 And followed by a public event at the O2.

01:36:01.320 The group is the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship.

01:36:04.980 And what we're trying to do is to formulate a positive story for the future, a positive vision.

01:36:10.880 And I would like to extend an invitation to you.

01:36:14.420 And also, what would you say, CODISIL on that invitation.

01:36:20.120 It would be delightful and helpful if you could also help us identify key people that we might invite in the UAE and in your broader network of contacts to bring people there.

01:36:32.100 Because we want to get everybody on board to the degree that that's possible.

01:36:35.380 And we are doing kind of what we discussed during this podcast.

01:36:39.420 You know, we want to put together a vision of the future that isn't going to involve compulsion and force, but that offers an active invitation to the kind of future that we might all want to have.

01:36:50.660 If we could pick the future we would actually want to have if we were being able and not Cain, let's say.

01:36:56.000 And so, you know, it sounds like our interests in that regard are very much aligned.

01:37:02.000 And I'm also looking very much forward to coming to the UAE and to meeting you in person and to seeing what's going on in there.

01:37:08.140 And I would like to thank you for talking to me and to everybody else here today to clue us in about the positive developments in the Middle East.

01:37:18.180 I mean, we've, in the West, you know, we've sat through decades of stories of misery and dread emanating from the Middle East. 1.00

01:37:25.300 And, you know, that's kind of par for the historical course in some ways.

01:37:28.580 And it's so bloody positive to see things switch around and to see peace break out and to see the possibility of real generous cooperation emerge.

01:37:41.980 And so, you know, congratulations on that front.

01:37:44.600 It's such a major accomplishment.

01:37:46.300 And hopefully that ethos can spread throughout the Arab world and everywhere else.

01:37:51.920 Wouldn't that be good?

01:37:55.880 Jordan, well, thank you for hosting me.

01:37:58.180 Thank you for your invitation.

01:38:01.520 You're a psychologist.

01:38:02.520 And I think, you know, that feeling when you have a dinner with your wife and you eat something that's tasty and delicious and you go and tell her, oh, I think you should try this.

01:38:13.340 Or you watched a movie that's somehow moved apart on you and then you said, oh, I think you should watch this movie.

01:38:20.720 It's that feeling where you want the other side or the other part or the other community or friends or family to enjoy what you have enjoyed or to actually have something good or experience something good as you did it as a human being.

01:38:40.620 And I think that feeling, you would see it in the Marathis, in UAE Nationals.

01:38:45.880 We feel our leadership did and built something that works and something that shows results, something that built hope, something that made me feel I'm unstoppable when it comes to serving, when it comes to building something better.

01:39:05.920 And I wish I see that in more communities.

01:39:08.800 I wish I see that in many different areas because I have tasted it, I have lived it, I have experienced it.

01:39:17.300 And that's my ultimate purpose in life, to actually help others see the good we saw and we experienced.

01:39:26.800 Because part of being who we are or part of defining your purpose is seeing the good in others and having a good impact on others as well.

01:39:41.160 Well, amen to that, brother.

01:39:43.020 So, well, I'll see you in the UAE in not so many months.

01:39:48.140 And I'm looking forward to collaborating with you on that front and to having you in London.

01:39:52.560 And for everyone watching and listening, I'm going to continue speaking with Saeed on the Daily Wire Plus platform.

01:39:59.980 We're going to delve a little bit more into his personal history and to discussion on the autobiographical front.

01:40:06.300 And so give some consideration to joining us there if you're inclined.

01:40:10.980 Otherwise, I'll say sayonara to you all.

01:40:13.200 And thank you very much for your time and attention to the film crew here in northern Ontario and also in the UAE.

01:40:21.300 Thanks for your participation and always to the Daily Wire Plus folks for making this possible.

01:40:25.460 It's much appreciated.

01:40:26.740 Very good to talk with you, sir.

01:40:28.140 And we'll take five.

01:40:29.980 And for the rest of you watching and listening, you know, join me in the next podcast as well.

01:40:35.140 Very good to talk to you today.

01:40:36.380 Thank you.

01:40:37.080 Thank you, doctor.

01:40:38.740 I enjoyed the conversation.

01:40:41.180 I think I see your clips more often in the feed of our young people.

01:40:47.220 I see my nephews watching some of your clips because actually your content when it comes to setting goals, setting vision, character building or exploring character.

01:41:02.020 And a lot of the values you are speaking about, it's somehow the same language we understand and we see.

01:41:10.020 I'm not sure how much you dig deep into the culture of the Middle East, the Arab world and the Islamic world.

01:41:17.820 But I could say that the areas where we could see alignment agreements are huge and that represent who we are.

01:41:27.340 I think it does, the news you hear about this region and the conflicts and the people of this region, I think we, again, we didn't do enough when authoring our own story.

01:41:42.020 Many people spoke about who we are, but I think we know better who we are and we should send that narrative to the whole world.

01:41:50.240 Great. Well, you know, all of that shared foundation means that, in principle, we have something to build, solid to build on in the future.

01:41:59.980 And so, you know, hooray for that.

01:42:02.440 All right. Good to talk to you, sir.

01:42:04.480 Bye-bye, everybody.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - November 27, 2023

400. Message from the United Arab Emirates ｜ His Excellency Saeed Al Nazari

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