The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 439. Microplastics, Global Greening, & the Dangers of Radical Alarmism ｜ Dr. Patrick Moore

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00:00:44.240 Hello, everyone. I have the opportunity today to talk to Dr. Patrick Moore. I'd been following Dr.

00:00:52.340 Moore for quite a long time, and I had the privilege of hearing him live in a little meeting

00:00:58.500 on Vancouver Island here recently, and we decided to do a podcast together. Dr. Moore is in the

00:01:04.800 interesting position of being skeptical, to say the least, and unconvinced of the doomsaying

00:01:14.420 prognostications of the climate apocalypse mongers, but also have been active in the

00:01:21.260 environmentalist movement for 50 years. He was one of the founding members of Greenpeace back when

00:01:28.360 they were working primarily on anti-nuclear campaigns and on campaigns to protect the remaining whales

00:01:38.000 in the tragedy of the Commons oceans against overfishing. Dr. Moore became convinced that

00:01:45.780 the environmentalist organizations as such were in the process of being taken over by

00:01:53.280 actors whose primary interest was not the green movement in the environmental sense or the peace

00:02:01.480 that Greenpeace once stood for, but more the promotion of a kind of radical self-interest

00:02:07.920 combined with the hysterical doom-mongering that's now typical of the apocalypse promoters. And so we go

00:02:18.220 through the evidence of climate change and environmental composition over about a 500 million year period,

00:02:25.440 concentrating particularly on the last 2 million years, and present the hypothetically appropriate

00:02:32.920 conclusions in that climate denialism festival. So join us.

00:02:39.560 Well, hello, Dr. Moore. Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me and to everybody else on this platform today.

00:02:45.660 We met recently in Vancouver Island. It was the first time I'd heard you speak publicly, and I was very interested in

00:02:52.000 the story you walked through. And so I thought today we could start with your adventures, your early adventures with

00:02:57.960 Greenpeace and what you were hoping for from that environmentalist organization, and move

00:03:02.380 from that to your divergences with their current worldview, let's say, and the reason that

00:03:10.600 that divergence was necessary and right. So let's start with Greenpeace. Let's begin with that.

00:03:19.560 Well, Jordan, I was doing my PhD in ecology at the University of British Columbia.

00:03:23.920 I had excelled in the life sciences all through high school and in my undergraduate years,

00:03:29.160 mainly interested in evolutionary biology, photosynthesis, ecology in general. And I was

00:03:39.100 radicalized by the Vietnam War, the threat of all-out nuclear war, and the concern for the environment,

00:03:46.800 which was a new thing. The word ecology had not yet been used in the popular press.

00:03:53.920 It was an obscure scientific term. And I think I was the first PhD ecologist to graduate in Canada,

00:04:02.380 as far as I don't know of any others. And so I learned through a little piece in the newspaper that

00:04:10.840 a small group of people were beginning to meet in the basement of the Unitarian Church, which is a church

00:04:16.840 that accepts all religions. And not that I'm particularly religious, but I agree with that sort of thing

00:04:25.200 of peace and an end to warring and all of that sort of thing. I'm a pacifist, I guess you could say.

00:04:33.180 But I'm also fantastically interested in nature and the evolution of life from no life to life.

00:04:43.520 I think there's two things that we can probably be sure we will never know the answer to.

00:04:49.120 One of them is, how did life begin? And the other one, is there anyone else in this universe besides us?

00:04:56.020 It hasn't become apparent to date. And we've got all kinds of listening devices and we're a young star.

00:05:05.580 The sun is a young star. So many of the stars that would have planets around them that are billions of years

00:05:11.080 older than our star, you'd think if life was going to happen on them, it might have done so by now.

00:05:15.680 So those are kind of my basic philosophies where I think there are things that we can never know.

00:05:25.100 Many of them probably, maybe some that we don't even know how to speak about.

00:05:30.680 But ecology, the science of how all living things are interrelated, not only with other living things,

00:05:39.080 but also with the planet as a whole and even the solar system.

00:05:43.560 Because Saturn has an effect on tides and it has an effect on these cycles of glaciation

00:05:51.180 and interglacial periods that have been going on for 2.6 million years during the Pleistocene Ice Age.

00:05:58.300 So that's how I see the world as everything being interconnected.

00:06:02.880 And that brings me to, well, what is really the fundamental meaning of science and scientific discovery.

00:06:14.460 Science is about discovery primarily.

00:06:18.080 And I have three steps that describe the scientific method.

00:06:24.180 The first one being observation.

00:06:25.720 And if you can't observe something, either with your own senses or with the machines we've made,

00:06:32.560 like x-ray machines and all the other things we have that we can see inside people,

00:06:39.620 we can have radiation detectors and all that sort of thing.

00:06:43.240 So they're part of our ability to observe what's going on in nature or in the world and in the outer world.

00:06:51.000 So that's what's needed is first observation.

00:06:54.980 And then second comes verification, where you observe something and then you see if it repeats itself over and over again

00:07:05.060 by very carefully trying to prevent outside forces from interfering with the two things you're looking at

00:07:14.580 where you think there might be a cause and an effect relationship.

00:07:17.840 And that's mostly what science is about, is discovering cause-effect.

00:07:23.600 And so you do that yourself to make sure that when you tell other people what you think you've found,

00:07:30.020 you'll be on solid ground.

00:07:32.280 And then there is replication, where other people see if they can do what you did.

00:07:37.060 And if they can, especially if it's a 100% kind of thing,

00:07:42.180 then you have a theory, a scientific theory.

00:07:45.160 And the reason that most of the scare stories today are about things that are either invisible,

00:07:56.620 like CO2, radiation, and the bad thing that's supposed to be in GMOs, which doesn't have a name.

00:08:03.140 Everything has a name.

00:08:04.620 So if it doesn't have a name, it doesn't exist.

00:08:06.620 And that's my opinion on the subject, is there's nothing in GMOs that is harmful.

00:08:12.220 Otherwise, it would probably harm people.

00:08:15.640 And many people are eating them by the millions.

00:08:18.680 So that's just a total hoax, as much as the climate emergency or climate crisis,

00:08:24.520 as they like to call it, is a total hoax.

00:08:27.060 Because people cannot see what carbon dioxide is doing.

00:08:31.080 They cannot do the first thing in science, which is observation.

00:08:34.960 And therefore, for some reason, the sort of mass hysteria effect takes place around many subjects.

00:08:46.640 And so it's not just things that are invisible, though.

00:08:50.240 It's also things that are so remote that no one hardly can go and look at it for themselves.

00:08:56.800 And I use the two examples of polar bears and coral reefs.

00:09:01.420 Very opposite.

00:09:02.540 One's in the hottest tropics.

00:09:03.980 The other's in the coldest Arctic.

00:09:06.560 And hardly anybody gets the seed of them.

00:09:09.680 I mean, I've been lucky.

00:09:10.920 I'm a diver and a snorkeler.

00:09:12.960 And I've been to Indonesia on three two-week trips to all the coral reefs there,

00:09:17.760 which is the richest in the world.

00:09:19.520 Happens to be also the warmest ocean in the world.

00:09:22.380 And yet people can't see for themselves when they heard in early 2016

00:09:28.260 that 93% of the Great Barrier Reef was dying or terminal or in its final terminal stage,

00:09:36.220 as if there were other terminal stages before the final one.

00:09:40.260 And you notice they never said dead.

00:09:42.380 They said dying terminal or, you know, also bleached.

00:09:49.840 They love to use that word.

00:09:51.280 Whereas bleached isn't like bleach that you make clothes white with.

00:09:56.600 Bleached means they've ejected their phytoplankton.

00:09:59.400 They're a symbiotic relationship between a polyp, which is an animal related to jellyfish,

00:10:06.360 which is in the little holes in the coral.

00:10:08.960 The tiny trillions of them in a very small area.

00:10:12.820 And then the phytoplankton are taken in by the polyps and put under their skin, which is translucent.

00:10:21.680 And so they can still photosynthesize in there and give some of their sugar to the polyp.

00:10:27.180 And the polyp gives them protection from predation.

00:10:30.760 So that's it's a perfect example.

00:10:32.820 But the point is, last year, in the middle of the summer, it was announced by the whole group of people who are studying the Great Barrier Reef that in the 36 years since they've been doing it thoroughly, it was the highest coral cover yet known.

00:10:48.100 So weigh those things.

00:10:52.720 It's 93% dying.

00:10:54.880 Oh, no, sorry.

00:10:56.240 It's got more cover than it ever has in the last 36 years.

00:11:00.040 And that gets in some tiny amount of media, whereas the other one went worldwide that it was dying.

00:11:07.120 And the thing is, is that the highest biodiversity of all coral reefs is in the warmest ocean in the world, which is Indonesia.

00:11:16.820 It's protected from the north by Asia and it's protected from the south by Australia to cold water incursions that come into the Great Barrier Reef and many others.

00:11:30.180 But they say if it gets warmer, the corals will die.

00:11:34.280 No, they will spread because we're coming out right now of a period when the Earth was so much warmer.

00:11:45.460 The Eocene Thermal Maximum happened 15 million years after the dinosaur extinction, which was almost certainly caused by that asteroid that hit Yucatan and sent ash into the stratosphere where it blocked the sun and caused plants to die and mass extinctions to occur.

00:12:03.200 And if the planet warms from what it is now, which is actually one of the coldest periods in the history of the Earth, this is the great irony.

00:12:13.440 Now, I'll try and go just quickly into the three most important points about climate change.

00:12:20.980 One is that this is one of the coldest periods in the history of the Earth.

00:12:24.340 That's why the ice caps are huge ice caps are covering both the North and South Poles.

00:12:29.040 There were forests in the South Pole and there was no ice in the Arctic until about three million years ago.

00:12:35.900 Since 250 million years before that, when the Karoo Ice Age, which lasted 100 million years, 0.95

00:12:44.500 the same sort of thing we're in now, where the poles are all covered in big sheets of ice,

00:12:50.820 since 250 million years ago when it ended, the Earth has been warmer than it is now.

00:12:58.440 So you're focusing on time frame, and this is something that's perplexed me continually with regards to both the climate debate

00:13:07.600 and the carbon dioxide debate, because my sense is that you can derive whatever conclusion you want,

00:13:15.600 essentially, about temperature and about carbon dioxide and about the relationship between temperature and carbon dioxide

00:13:22.720 by merely arbitrarily choosing a particular period of time to study.

00:13:28.600 Now, what struck me about the presentation of yours that I saw was that you circumvented that to some degree

00:13:36.000 by using extremely long spans of time.

00:13:39.900 And so the claim that you just made, let me just lay it out again for everyone who's watching and listening,

00:13:45.460 is that over the last 250 million years, we've rarely been in a period that's as cold as it is now.

00:13:55.000 And that for much of that time, when there was no shortage, we never have been.

00:14:01.360 Okay, we never have been.

00:14:03.060 Now, there have been periods of time in the Earth's history when the whole Earth was an ice ball.

00:14:08.480 How long ago were those periods of time?

00:14:12.880 Two billion years ago. It's theoretical. It isn't proven.

00:14:16.860 It is possible that there were ice ages that were more extreme than the three that have occurred in the last half billion years.

00:14:26.840 The Silurian was a shorter ice age that occurred when CO2 was at 6,000 parts per million.

00:14:35.160 You know, it's 400 and some now, and they're saying it's going to make the Earth go on fire.

00:14:42.240 So, and then the Carew was 100 million years long.

00:14:47.940 That was during the time when forests evolved.

00:14:50.560 And it was very similar in temperature to the one we're in now.

00:14:54.280 You see, the International Stratigraphy Institution, I think that's not quite its name,

00:15:02.140 but stratigraphy is the layers of the Earth that you can read, the ages and the fossils and stuff like that.

00:15:08.680 They have declared this Holocene interglacial period as a new epoch.

00:15:15.120 The Pleistocene is an epoch, and it's lasted for 2.5 million years,

00:15:20.340 and there have been at least 40 interglacial periods no different from this one during that time.

00:15:27.460 None of them are now an epoch.

00:15:29.340 Okay, that's a span of how long did you say, the Pleistocene?

00:15:32.160 2.6 million years is, it's arbitrary, but it was going down, down, down, down, and they said,

00:15:40.500 okay, this is where we'll call it the Pleistocene, because it had become so much colder than it was 50 million years ago.

00:15:48.360 And it had gone down quickly, and then it leveled off for a while for about another 10 million years.

00:15:53.800 And then it crashed down to where we are now with the fact that we are in as cold a period as has ever existed in the past 550 million years.

00:16:06.940 Now, as for Ice Ball Earth, Ice Ball Earth is too long ago to have accurate records.

00:16:14.220 There's all kinds of, I've read a lot about it, and there's a lot of speculation involved in it.

00:16:23.940 Obviously, the world didn't freeze over completely, or there wouldn't be any life here again.

00:16:30.400 I mean, life had already occupied all the oceans of the world by that time, and there was no life to speak of on land.

00:16:38.740 I'm not sure about bacterial forms.

00:16:40.560 I mean, there's so much we don't know.

00:16:43.180 The reason I don't go back except to say that photosynthesis and sexual reproduction both evolved during that earlier period,

00:16:52.320 going back 2-3 billion years.

00:16:54.940 But multicellular life never came into existence until about 560 million years ago.

00:17:01.960 Before that, everything, every living thing, had been unicellular, microscopic, and confined to the sea.

00:17:09.980 So, to me, that's where we start.

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00:18:51.940 Really?

00:18:54.040 Okay, okay, okay.

00:18:55.320 Okay, so let's get the biggest picture here and zoom in a little bit.

00:19:00.840 So 4.5 billion years ago about we have the emergence of the Earth.

00:19:04.740 We have the emergence of life, what, three and a half billion years ago?

00:19:09.840 And we have an unbelievable...

00:19:11.000 We think, yes.

00:19:11.360 Yeah, something like that.

00:19:12.680 We have an unbelievably long span of essentially three billion years then when life is unicellular.

00:19:19.040 500 million years ago, we get the emergence of multicellular life.

00:19:23.920 And that's the time when you start to focus in on the data, thinking that, at least in part, the evidence for anything that happened before that is thin and speculative.

00:19:36.660 How good is the evidence for our conception of climate and atmospheric composition from 550 million years ago to now?

00:19:48.280 And also, from what sources is that evidence derived?

00:19:52.460 Like, how do we know what the temperature was?

00:19:54.520 How do we know how much carbon dioxide there was in the atmosphere across that 500 million year period?

00:20:01.380 And how much more accurate do our estimates get as the millions of years progress?

00:20:09.200 Very good question.

00:20:11.280 Yes, we have a lot of proxies.

00:20:15.120 The best evidence started to occur in 1958 in the International Geophysical Year when ships went out all over the world and drilled deeply into the marine sediments

00:20:27.200 to look at various proxies, oxygen 18 is a really important one.

00:20:33.160 It has to do with different decay rates of different isotopes of various elements.

00:20:40.900 I'm not an expert on this, but I know that's how it's done.

00:20:45.020 Also, the foraminifera, which are a tiny shelled animal that lives in the sea and is of huge abundance,

00:20:57.200 we know from the shape of their shells how long ago it was, along with the proxy radiation stuff.

00:21:06.220 So we can look deep down into these sediments and see the evolution of life.

00:21:12.060 And the first multicellular life was pretty well all just like jellyfish.

00:21:18.380 There were no shells yet or bones.

00:21:21.100 And the clam family went off to make a shell like a knight in armor, like a protective plating around its whole body 1.00

00:21:32.060 and made it much less susceptible to predation.

00:21:36.080 But the bony fish decided to have, then they started from way, way back, you know, that same sort of 500 million year period.

00:21:49.600 And the skeleton and the central spine became a very desirable thing to have, to hold the fleshy part together.

00:21:59.940 And academics could learn from that, Patrick, I would say, the importance of a spine, you might say.

00:22:08.420 Yes, quite important.

00:22:12.080 But you'll find that everything that has a spine can run pretty fast because we don't have a shell around us.

00:22:18.840 Whereas the bivalves and univalves and all of the other shelled species in the sea in particular,

00:22:26.960 there are freshwater clams and mussels, which is proof that the oceans won't become so acidic, as they like to say,

00:22:35.520 less alkaline is what they really mean, that it's going to melt all the shells of the shelled creatures in the sea.

00:22:42.320 That's ocean acidification. 0.89

00:22:44.160 I have a paper on it called, basically, a re-look at this idea.

00:22:52.620 Because it only emerged, the whole idea of ocean acidification emerged when the temperature stopped rising in the late 90s.

00:23:00.220 There was a flattening out period.

00:23:02.020 And everybody's going, oh, no, we have to create a new scare story because this one isn't working as well as it used to.

00:23:08.220 And that's the kind of thing that drives a person, like me, nuts, because they get away with this.

00:23:16.760 And so the shelled creatures, though, can be, what's the word for stay in one place? 0.99

00:23:26.220 You know.

00:23:26.700 Sedentary.

00:23:27.260 Sedentary.

00:23:27.940 Sedentary, yes.

00:23:29.000 And they can be, like oysters and all those shelled species.

00:23:34.800 But the jellyfish are still around, but most of them have stingers.

00:23:40.880 So they don't have to be able to run away too fast because the other species know that it's not a very pleasant experience to swallow one. 0.77

00:23:47.700 and so all the all these different uh strains the the phylum of life many phylum have emerged

00:23:56.560 in this 500 million year period and the only reason they're still here is because they were

00:24:01.400 successful now people say that when i say well the eocene thermal maximum was like way hotter

00:24:09.160 than it is now there was no ice anywhere for 250 million years and life thrived the dinosaurs

00:24:15.820 thrived if it hadn't been for the asteroid they'd still be here but it made room for us mammals

00:24:23.000 to fill the gap and so they say but no but humans couldn't have lived through that

00:24:28.340 no but their ancestors did if if we wouldn't be here if our ancestors hadn't lived through the hot

00:24:34.840 period and so that that this 500 million years gives you absolute proof that the the climate

00:24:43.160 emergency and and this strong relationship between co2 and temperature they are out of sync

00:24:50.520 through that 500 million year period more than they're in sync and that is not not a cause-effect

00:24:57.600 relationship okay so let's review this so so far we've established that we have reasonable records

00:25:05.980 of climate and atmosphere for a 500 million year period let's say and we've derived that in part

00:25:12.000 from the study of um radioactive isotopes and partly from the study of the shells of shelled animals

00:25:18.820 that have been around for an extraordinarily long period of time and so we can get a pretty decent

00:25:22.480 picture of both climate and atmospheric uh composition during that period of time and what we see

00:25:30.420 is that for much of that period of time in fact for all of it in in your estimation um the planet was in

00:25:39.100 fact much warmer than it is now to the point where there was no ice for most of that period of time

00:25:43.860 on either pole yet during that period life flourished abundantly also during that period

00:25:51.540 is 500 million year period for almost all of that time there not only was more carbon dioxide in the

00:25:58.240 atmosphere than there is now there was like there was way more five times more ten times more and the

00:26:05.640 consequence of that was that plants flourished also the carbon dioxide and the temperature during that

00:26:14.220 period are radically out of sync and not obviously causally related is does that is that a good summary of

00:26:22.940 the 500 million year evidence so indeed it is okay well i just say that the the caroo ice age lasted 100

00:26:34.020 million years the silurian only lasted for about 10 million years ours is only 2.5 million years and

00:26:40.080 they're declaring it over without any evidence whatsoever that it's anything like over as a matter

00:26:45.940 of fact of the 40 interglacial periods that have occurred the the most recent ones have shown a

00:26:53.460 continuing decline in the warmth of the warm periods which are the short periods it goes it takes

00:26:59.600 85 000 years to sink from where we are now back to the next major glaciation see they call it the last

00:27:07.380 ice age the one that occurred 20 000 years ago no it was the most recent glacial maximum of which there

00:27:15.180 have been 40 during the place to see an ice age and the the amazing thing is is that the the cycles

00:27:23.260 that are occurring here are are asynchronous like for the first half one and a half million years it was a

00:27:32.460 40 000 year cycle in keeping with the shape of the earth's orbit which is affected by the mag by

00:27:41.140 by jupiter's gravitational field jupiter affects both our our our our circle around the it's not a circle

00:27:50.520 it's a oval but it changes shape in tune with jupiter's gravitational effect as as it goes around

00:27:58.380 the sun and then the the tilt of the earth is is affected by jupiter's gravitational effect

00:28:06.080 and so is the wobble the north star won't always be the north star because the tilt wobbles like this

00:28:14.520 in a 20 000 year cycle right i'm using round numbers it's like 21 or something but so this period we've

00:28:22.500 had now for the last 2.5 million years the graph shows very clearly from ocean sediment analysis

00:28:29.060 that it's still getting colder in the cold periods okay so that's the place to see that last two and a

00:28:36.020 half million years and that's the time that's been characterized by 40 processions of ice

00:28:41.920 yes the last of which was the last ice age no no the most recent mate

00:28:48.100 recent glaciation the ice age is the place to see oh yes sorry yes yes and and but people you've got

00:28:55.700 that in your head because they're pouring it into you every day that it was the last ice age when when

00:29:01.060 it is this is the last ice age it's called the place to see and it's the most

00:29:05.620 recent ice age but we also have these glacial maximums occurring and and and so this is called

00:29:16.620 the place to see and conundrum because no one knows quite exactly how that happened okay so let me

00:29:21.320 rephrase that so two and a half million per year period which in in totality is an ice age that's

00:29:28.260 characterized by the movement and the reset the movement forward and the recession of of the ice

00:29:34.140 masses and the last major movement forward was 20 000 years ago but we're still in and and now

00:29:43.500 are we're at the tail end of the recession where are we in that process no we're at the tail end of

00:29:50.320 the interglacial period if it's anything like pretty well all of the previous ones it really only lasts

00:29:55.960 about 10 000 years and the first part of it is warmer than it is people are not even willing to

00:30:02.340 look at 10 000 years they want to say from 1850 right yeah that's when the industrial era began and

00:30:09.680 now it's the industrial area that is causing this slight change in in global temperature when in fact

00:30:16.420 this change started more like in 1600 that was the peak of the little ice age as it was called and it

00:30:22.820 wasn't an ice age either it was just a a cold period during an interglacial period during a warm period

00:30:31.600 so but the little ice age was the coldest it's been since about 10 000 years ago as it was coming up

00:30:38.800 out of the real glacial maximum i can't tell right at the beginning exactly how many there were and where

00:30:46.500 you really start and all that stuff but it's in the neighborhood of 40 glacial maximums first on 100 000

00:30:52.620 year cycles sudden switch to 40 000 year cycles both of which tie in with the uh jupiter

00:31:01.520 gravitational theory um this was discovered in the 1920s uh but they didn't have that they didn't have

00:31:09.520 the detail that we have today um the the fact is is what i call it is the most recent glacial maximum

00:31:18.180 was 20 000 years ago they call it the last because last can also mean final as well as most recent

00:31:25.760 right so most recent is much more accurate than final i don't know why final would would be used

00:31:33.440 unless they thought it was the last one and there's absolutely no evidence for that because we have

00:31:39.160 already started about 6 000 years ago going downwards slowly till we came to the little ice age and it was

00:31:46.500 only 400 and some years ago that that happened people starved in the northern parts of europe because

00:31:52.300 it was too cold to grow food and and it doesn't take that much temperature a couple three degrees celsius

00:31:59.200 makes the area where you can grow food move quite a bit just like the in the glacial maximums there was a

00:32:07.520 mile of ice over and two miles of ice and three miles of ice and around churchill like four miles of

00:32:16.600 ice on top of the land and and there was almost nowhere in canada that wasn't completely glaciated

00:32:22.920 a few places where there's very little precipitation in the in the alaska area yukon area but basically

00:32:30.460 the whole country was covered in a massive sheet of ice which went way down into the northern tier u.s states

00:32:35.900 new york had a mile of ice on it so and that was only 20 000 years ago and that had occurred

00:32:41.680 time after time after time for 2.5 million years and again there is absolutely no indication

00:32:50.280 that the pleistocene is anywhere near coming to an end everything points to it getting colder

00:32:57.060 or staying the same maybe the chance of it going back up is five percent if you look at the evidence

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00:34:13.080 okay so if we look at the last two and a half million years we're in an age that's cold enough to

00:34:21.700 frequently have the progression of the glaciers and that's happened and they've receded 40 times now you

00:34:28.520 made allusion to some of the forces that are multiple forces that are causing that you talked

00:34:35.120 about the the um the tilt of the earth's orbit and the and what would you say the irregularities in

00:34:41.880 that tilt so that's a source of variability you talked about yes what if the earth points more

00:34:47.360 towards the sun then the solar radiation goes further north and further south and in our winter there

00:34:53.320 summer so it it it can that seems to be where it was triggered was was by these the cycles fit

00:35:02.680 perfectly so you you sort of have to go well that looks like it's a cause-effect relationship right

00:35:08.120 and it happens so many times and and you said the wobble itself is affected by even more distal forces

00:35:17.660 like the the gravitational pull of jupiter so there's many many forces at play that are determining

00:35:23.880 these large-scale cycles of climate over tens of thousands of years tens of thousands of year periods

00:35:30.220 and it you don't believe that there's any evidence whatsoever there are cycles upon cycles upon cycles

00:35:37.420 upon cycle right and you don't believe that carbon dioxide production per se that is one of the major

00:35:43.800 okay so so let's still drag into that because or drill into that because i'm going to do everything

00:35:49.260 i can push back against you to to evaluate that argument because we want to give the devil his due

00:35:55.320 so i could say all right so the first thing i might say is well you could be right in that

00:36:01.080 there's been a tremendous amount of variation across large spans of time but the rate of change

00:36:09.920 change at the moment since 1850 is sufficient so that those perturbations will be hard for natural systems

00:36:17.660 to adapt to and they threaten the stability of the cultures that we've generated predicated as they are

00:36:25.320 on a particular uh what would you say manifestation of weather and climate and so

00:36:30.860 the right span of time is a 200 year period and not these tens of thousands of years or millions of years

00:36:37.280 even that you're insisting upon so how would you respond to that objection well john clauser

00:36:44.620 who got the nobel prize in physics in 22 or 3 has just joined the co2 coalition of which i'm

00:36:53.060 a director founding director and we're a group that only accepts people that we want to come in you

00:37:00.160 can't just pay money and be a member uh we we know what we're talking about we've got uh some of the top

00:37:07.280 uh atmospheric scientists and et cetera in the world as as as our group and we're also associated

00:37:14.120 with clintel in europe uh which is a climate international uh alliance i believe it's that

00:37:21.740 stands for and we're we're pretty much on the same page because it's the only page that makes any sense

00:37:29.400 uh the the the fact is is and john clauser said it this way the difference between the temperature 200

00:37:38.240 years ago and the temperature now and you're going to this 1.5 degrees and the earth is going to burn up

00:37:45.060 or whatever that's let that's less than that's less than between breakfast and lunch everywhere in the

00:37:52.540 world 1.5 degrees celsius it it is so stupidly ridiculous to say that a 1.5 degrees celsius

00:38:02.720 increase in global atmospheric temperature is going to be a disaster as a matter of fact it will open up

00:38:09.520 vast areas of farmland that were too cold before a lot of this you know i live in comox uh where i'm

00:38:17.580 just barely halfway to the north pole and it's too cold for things to grow for large parts of the year

00:38:25.520 and it would be nice if it was warmer and the other thing that not many people know is that when the

00:38:32.860 earth warms uh say back in the day this is many millions of years ago when it was much warmer than

00:38:39.260 it is now uh it it it does go more towards the poles the equator doesn't change it it's a a constant

00:38:49.720 that like the poles actually became subtropical uh during some of the interglacial periods before the

00:38:57.960 ice age came the ice didn't start building up in antarctica until about 30 million years ago

00:39:04.200 and the ice didn't start building up in the arctic until about 5 million years ago the south pole is

00:39:10.960 always colder than the north pole the southern hemisphere is colder because it's mostly ocean and

00:39:17.060 it takes a lot more energy to heat up the oceans than it does to heat up the land you're only

00:39:23.240 heating up a little bit like this but the oceans are like the atmosphere are in in cycle they're in

00:39:30.160 lots of lots of different cycles exchanges so they're moving heat all over the place whereas

00:39:36.620 the land doesn't move heat it just absorbs it and so the the the the northern hemisphere has always

00:39:44.100 been colder than the southern well since the land masses were reasonably in the same place they are now

00:39:49.840 over of course over the hundreds of millions of years the tectonic plates have moved around quite a bit

00:39:55.940 and at one time they were all in one continent with all the rest of the world being ocean gone gone

00:40:01.780 to wanna land i think that's what that was um and so the the the the flows of heat uh but the the point

00:40:10.580 is is that in the eothene thermal maximum the temperature was at least five to seven degrees celsius

00:40:18.180 warmer than it is now maybe even more and how long were we topics it there were

00:40:25.940 50 million years ago was the peak of the eocene thermal maximum as it's called and coming out of

00:40:31.940 the glacial uh coming out of the dinosaur extinction there were 15 million years where it still was

00:40:38.820 going up it had gone it had gone down about halfway to where it is now in the middle of this 250 million

00:40:46.660 year period but it was nowhere near and cold enough for any ice to be on the earth and at the same time co2

00:40:52.980 was going in the exact opposite direction than the the whole of the um temperature was and that you can

00:41:01.300 see that in the in the graphs that that there is no clear relationship but the thing about co2 is

00:41:08.820 actually it is a greenhouse gas but clouds are so much more important you know water is the most

00:41:16.660 interesting one because they're not properly modeled i also understand that in the client the

00:41:23.140 climate models don't have sufficient resolution to appropriately model the clouds so you talked

00:41:28.180 about 1.5 degrees and that number has always bothered me because um i i understand if i'm correct that

00:41:36.420 that's within the error margin of the estimates of the forcing effect of water vapor i understand that it

00:41:43.780 it's a small enough measurement so that we can't determine um if it can be validly detected in terms

00:41:50.740 of an increase given our inability to model the effects of clouds i understand that we don't have

00:41:57.700 temperature measurements from terrestrial weather stations that are sufficiently reliable over even

00:42:04.180 a period of several hundred years to ensure that our estimates are accurate within a degree and a half

00:42:09.780 i mean i learned this not least by reading michael crichton about or crichton about 20 years ago when he

00:42:17.460 wrote one of the first exposés on the climate scam pointing out that most of our terrestrial weather

00:42:24.020 stations were placed in outside of cities to begin with but that they've been the subject of encroachment

00:42:31.780 by the urban heat island since and that in consequence their temperature estimates have to be

00:42:37.780 corrected for that encroachment and there's error in that measurement as well so yes and not only that

00:42:45.540 they're they're playing with the numbers they're making it seem colder before that they're actually

00:42:50.820 noah the national oceanic and atmospheric administration is actually it's they're lying they're

00:43:00.020 they're saying oh there's a good reason to show that it was hotter now and colder than and then

00:43:04.500 they change the numbers and they're doing it without telling anybody and then the graphs go out i mean

00:43:10.740 this whole thing is still corrupt and it's basically the problem is is that politicians who uh work by

00:43:18.740 scaring people uh that if this happens you know you vote for me and i'll make sure this doesn't happen

00:43:25.060 uh but they quietly get their bureaucrats to give billions of money to scientists in universities who 0.76

00:43:34.980 know that if they don't go along with the story they're going to get fired never never mind they

00:43:42.740 actually cannot counter this without being shunned and if you've seen what's happened recently with the

00:43:50.500 the big universities and the the kind of horrible stuff coming out from these people not just on

00:43:59.540 climate but on social issues and war and all that sort of stuff and that's not i don't talk about that too

00:44:06.180 much yeah but i follow it i follow it very closely and there there there's so so the all these scientists

00:44:15.620 publish all these papers with with doom and gloom as the main theme you don't see the big corporations

00:44:23.060 doing that sort of stuff they're trying to make things that are useful and now they're being forced

00:44:28.900 into this electric vehicle thing you know that using fossil fuels to make electricity is only 35

00:44:36.100 to 40 percent efficient and then you're going to use that use that electricity to run your car

00:44:43.540 and it's only so efficient i mean it's more efficient than burning fossil fuels but you're

00:44:47.940 burning fossil fuels 65 of all the electricity in the united states is still bought by fossil fuels

00:44:54.900 and they're pretending that that doesn't have any co2 emissions because the cars don't okay so let's let

00:45:00.740 let's turn our attention momentarily to to the co2 issue so i became aware six or seven years ago

00:45:10.740 of the greening global greening phenomenon so now we've been told for 60 years that as the carbon

00:45:19.700 dioxide rates increase and the temperatures inexorably rise that what will inevitably happen

00:45:26.180 is that the semi-arid areas will turn arid and the deserts will expand but what's actually happened

00:45:34.740 and yeah not just the opposite in a little way the opposite in an absolutely mind-blowing and

00:45:43.460 unequivocal way which is what's happened is that because we're actually in a carbon dioxide drought which

00:45:50.180 is also what your data point to we're down to about 4 30 parts per million and plants start to die

00:45:56.100 at 150 parts per million the plants are literally gasping for metaphorically gasping for breath and so

00:46:03.540 they have their stomata open too wide and that means they lose a lot of water and that means that the

00:46:10.340 semi-arid areas in the earth are wider than they should be larger than they could be could be so now

00:46:16.900 carbon dioxide levels have gone up and not even that much and the consequence of that is that the

00:46:22.420 plants are thriving in comparison and this has happened over only a 20-year period and so the

00:46:29.060 the amount of the earth that's greened since the year 2000 is equivalent to the total land area of the

00:46:35.940 united states right it not only that there's been a market improvement in crop production it's like 13 to

00:46:43.060 15 percent so not only is the planet not desertifying it's doing the opposite and near the deserts right

00:46:51.540 in semi-arid areas plus instead of that being a threat to food production it's actually enhanced

00:46:57.460 food production worldwide so my sense is that if we weren't ideologically addled and we were looking

00:47:04.580 just at the straight data with the with the eyes of let's say new investigators we'd look at the release

00:47:11.380 of carbon dioxide of the of the plant-based carbon dioxide sequestration from the fossil fuel reservoirs

00:47:21.060 as the return of a necessary nutrient to the atmosphere and we would consider it a net positive

00:47:28.420 and so what do you think about that is that like i just can't draw any other conclusion when i found out

00:47:35.060 that the the area of green on the planet had expanded that much in 20 years it was well it was i didn't

00:47:43.220 know what to think of that because not only does it indicate that the desertification by carbon dioxide

00:47:52.020 hypothesis is erroneous it's actually the opposite of that it's literally an anti-truths the notion that

00:48:00.180 carbon dioxide will cause desertification and it seems to me that environmentally oriented people

00:48:06.340 should be thrilled that the planet has become substantially greener and that agricultural

00:48:12.340 land is more productive because it means we'd have to use less of it so you know i've gone so far as to

00:48:18.100 delude myself into thinking that adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is one of the most effective

00:48:24.500 ways we can possibly distribute fertilizer so given that we need to burn fossil fuels for all sorts of

00:48:31.460 other reasons and so that's so far away from the current narrative that it seems like a delusion so

00:48:37.220 what do you think of that what do you make of that you studied well um yes it that's all of what you said

00:48:44.900 is absolutely true and many of us like you and i know about this and it falls on deaf ears for some

00:48:51.300 reason and and i go back to uh burning witches then throwing virgins into volcanoes um people did these

00:48:59.220 things and the rest of the people accepted it or even supported it and so i i what is it some kind of

00:49:08.020 collective death wish because the fact is during the most recent glacial maximum as i like to call it

00:49:14.340 20 000 years ago co2 sank to 180 ppm in the atmosphere that's because when the oceans cool

00:49:22.580 they absorb more co2 and when they warm they outgas co2 i i use the example of taking a glass of cold

00:49:30.900 water out of the fridge and putting it on your counter in a few minutes bubbles begin to form on the glass

00:49:37.060 inside that's the gas coming out of the water put it back in the fridge they disappear so henry's law

00:49:44.020 is the is an actual scientific formula that determines the equilibrium between co2 in the

00:49:50.900 water and in the atmosphere and given that the water is 70 of the land's area this is a fairly

00:49:57.700 major factor in things and so it went down to 180 and as you know at 150 plants die right so it is

00:50:06.900 thought that many of the high elevation plants did die for lack of co2 because as you go up the air thins

00:50:12.740 out so 150 150 parts per million becomes a lower number as you go up yeah and and so that because

00:50:23.060 there's ash ash deposits at those altitudes that seem to seem to be like pervasive uh that and i think

00:50:31.700 that's a logical uh conclusion uh i mean in other words it it's not a bad hypothesis uh because it was so

00:50:40.660 low and and and and and so i say that human emissions of co2 are salvation not not a not a destructive

00:50:50.580 tragedy or emergency or crisis it is actually that we this species has not only figured out how to build

00:51:00.180 airplanes and spaceships and computers but we have also reversed the continuous downward trend for the

00:51:10.020 last 500 million years with a few blips up and down in between but for the last say 150 million years

00:51:19.060 it's been a steady downward line when you're a cpa numbers are beautiful chartered professional

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00:51:43.860 numbers be part of cpa canada join now at cpa canada.ca backslash join starting with regards with with

00:51:53.860 regards to carbon dioxide percentage from 2500 ppm 150 million years ago to 180 20 000 years ago and when

00:52:02.820 we came out of that most recent glaciation took about 10 000 years to get up to what's called the

00:52:09.460 holocene climate optimum because the first 10 the first 5 000 years of the holocene were warmer than it is

00:52:18.100 now the sahara was green co2 was a little bit higher it went up to about 280 after the after the the 180

00:52:29.540 the warming of the oceans caused outgassing and made it 280 by the time industry began and then industry

00:52:37.780 has taken it from 280 to 425 or 6 or something right now and it just keeps getting greener but the

00:52:46.100 sahara's not green yet yeah right because it isn't yet i've read that it's shrinking on its southern

00:52:53.220 expense yes it is but uh the the fact is there are red dots on maps showing all the villages that were

00:53:01.620 all across the sahara desert with goat herders and sheep and stuff like back then for for thousands of

00:53:07.460 years and one of the reasons they say the egyptian civilization began was they all had to move into the 0.98

00:53:14.020 the nile valley uh because it was the only place where there was enough water to live

00:53:19.780 and the sahara became a desert six thousand years ago or five thousand something like that but anyways

00:53:26.100 that's the time when when uh everybody had to move move and and that created one of the first big urban

00:53:33.140 centers along with the middle east okay so so so let me let me extend the criticism of the current

00:53:43.460 climate apocalypse mongering on a different ground and then let's let's investigate for a brief period of

00:53:51.380 time why this story might be making itself manifest you already pointed to some degree to the corruption

00:53:58.020 of the scientific enterprise but but there's that's not the whole story so so um my license in

00:54:06.180 canada to practice is is being threatened right by my professional board one of the reasons for that by

00:54:11.380 the way is that some complainant some random complainant in the united states who i never had

00:54:17.700 any professional dealings with whatsoever like all the people who complained about me by the way

00:54:23.060 submitted the entire transcript of a joe rogan interview that i did on where i discussed climate

00:54:30.420 in some of the same ways that we're discussing it and one of the things i pointed out was that

00:54:35.860 the models that we use are radically dependent on a set of initial presuppositions they're not very

00:54:43.300 accurate in their estimates of such things as terrestrial temperature they don't model water vapor well or

00:54:48.980 clouds and and so they're and they're not data they're models and so they're not reliable and

00:54:56.980 then they are fueled in their development by the people who want the apocalypse mongering to continue

00:55:03.700 so that makes me very skeptical of them but then there's something even worse they use those models to

00:55:09.380 generate a hundred year prognostication which is a long way out there and and that means the farther

00:55:16.020 you go out with your models the more the errors multiply but then they stack an economic model on

00:55:22.100 top of that and claim that the consequence of the 1.5 degree elevation in temperature is computable

00:55:30.740 economically one century from now and that the consequences will be devastating well you know i read

00:55:37.540 all of bjorn lomberg's careful work and bjorn has accepted the iocc prognostications about temperature

00:55:45.380 increase and he's calculated what that's likely to cost us in relationship to the fact that our

00:55:51.860 economies continue to grow and that people are flourishing and his conclusion is that not only is

00:55:58.420 there no climate apocalypse because that's a complete bloody lie in the way that you just described but

00:56:03.700 there's also no economic uh uh apocalypse even if the climate scientists are right because our proclivity

00:56:12.420 to become more productive will radically overwhelm the slight detrimental effect of any climate

00:56:18.740 transformation and so anyways for stating all that that's part of the reason that my license as a

00:56:26.020 clinical psychologist is being threatened which is you know sort of an indication of the current state

00:56:30.660 of the world and so i don't know if you have anything to say about the economic models or if we should just

00:56:36.420 leave that lie and so so what do you think of that line of reasoning economics is sort of in the middle of

00:56:45.700 real hard science uh and i don't know naturopathy or something um not that i don't agree with a lot of

00:56:58.660 naturopathy but it's soft versus hard science type thing and you know it's just so insane that

00:57:08.340 they are doing this because the ipcc itself the intergovernmental panel on climate change

00:57:15.700 part of the united nations apparatus it's partly the meteorological

00:57:20.340 uh association uh and the uh environmental center in nairobi and they're very political of course but

00:57:29.300 twice during the publication of their large volume they they they have a public one for the public but

00:57:37.300 they also have a big volume that they put out every four years and twice they have said to effect

00:57:44.180 it is impossible to determine future climate trends you see chaos the very definition of chaos is

00:57:54.980 is that you can't see through it i i've been a boater all my life and built a few of them too

00:58:01.540 and uh i love the bow wave uh because at a certain speed you're going slow and it's a beautiful

00:58:09.940 laminar flow around the bow it's there's no turbulence and then you get going a little

00:58:16.100 faster a little faster it becomes turbulent and frothy it's impossible to predict where each of the atoms

00:58:23.620 are in that chaotic system and that's the same thing as the climate there's no possibility that anybody

00:58:32.020 can predict the future with a computer it's especially well you can predict some things with a

00:58:39.300 computer if you've got a perfectly linear thing that you're looking at yeah but you can't predict

00:58:45.380 something as complicated as the global climate another point i'd like to make is that you know

00:58:52.900 people are saying that it's going to get too hot to live on the earth we are a tropical species

00:59:00.020 we're not polar bears that's why we're not covered in massive fur coats because we we evolved at the

00:59:06.980 equator and we we stayed there for a very very long time and couldn't come out of there even my place

00:59:14.260 here in baja on the tropic of cancer is too cold for people if they don't have shelter and fire so i

00:59:21.700 believe that the control of fire was the beginning of the species called humans and that it went from there

00:59:30.100 to clothing and needles for knitting hides together and then nice houses and with nice fireplaces and

00:59:39.780 lots of wood around and you know one of the reasons the forest fires are so bad in the western u.s

00:59:44.900 is they don't clean the wood off the ground and they let trees die and just stand there back in the day

00:59:50.900 before there was any fossil fuels every village every tribe every town every city they collected all the

00:59:57.300 dead wood for miles around their dwelling places and used it for their firewood in the winter

01:00:03.220 because it was dry already and easy to get because it was already on the ground right and so people

01:00:08.660 don't recognize that and you got to manage a forest properly if you don't want it to turn into a

01:00:13.300 conflagration like they have done in california and many of the other western states it but back to uh

01:00:20.980 clouds johnie mitchell i've looked at clouds from both sides now from up and down and still somehow

01:00:32.100 it's clouds illusions i recall we really don't know clouds at all she said one of the most prophetic

01:00:40.500 scientific things of any modern singer and this is true we cannot predict the clouds

01:00:48.100 clouds and and and they have multiple forces they they reflect sunlight off the top they keep the

01:00:54.980 earth's heat in at the bottom they rain all over the place and make everything wet and then you've got

01:01:00.980 the fact that that h2o name me another compound that has all three states gas liquid and solid the ice

01:01:11.940 has a huge effect too when it comes like it has now so water is really the one that we should be

01:01:19.060 focusing on right right but i don't think i don't think we would come to the conclusion that we should

01:01:23.700 get rid of the water in the same way they're saying we should get rid of the co2 these people who are 1.00

01:01:29.700 building billion dollar things to to store co2 yeah i know co2 sequestration it's stunning they

01:01:37.780 they really they really should be put in chains and not allowed to do that you know it's so ridiculous

01:01:46.500 it'd be just as effective to go to door to door with a with a pistols take people's money and burn

01:01:52.020 it in the backyard it's it's equally insane okay so so it is about that that's a good yeah yeah it's about

01:02:00.980 it's about it's insane okay so so let's let's look underneath this and this also will tap into

01:02:08.420 something paradoxical about you i would say so let me lay this out and tell me tell and then you tell

01:02:14.180 me what you think about it okay so my sense is that the great climate apocalypse narrative emerged

01:02:21.860 essentially out of the concerns of people like the club of rome and the concerns in the 1960s that

01:02:29.060 the human race was going to that we were basically we could be modeled like mold in a petri dish and

01:02:36.740 that we would expand our population till we consumed all available resources and perish in a

01:02:42.420 in a cataclysm and that that had to be stopped and that was the sort of um dire situation put forth by

01:02:50.820 the biologist paul ehrlich for example who's been beating this drum ever since the mid-60s okay so the

01:02:57.460 club of rome people got together in the mid-60s and they decided that there were way too damn many

01:03:03.300 people on the planet something radical had to be done about that which is a bit of a dangerous

01:03:07.860 presumption in my estimation right and a bit of an anti-human presumption but um in any case

01:03:16.500 the consequence of that was the emergence of the more radical side of the environmentalist movement now

01:03:22.980 i hesitate to say just that and this is where i would really like your input because there are a

01:03:29.700 number of reasons for wise people to be cautious and concerned about the relationship between human

01:03:38.660 beings and the and the broader ecological system so i spent a lot of time analyzing human effects on

01:03:45.940 the so-called environment and i came to the conclusion that we're misdirecting our apocalyptic

01:03:53.540 attention in a variety of pathological matters because for example i think that the fact that we're

01:03:59.620 we've devastated the um natural abundance of the coastal waters and really intensely in the last hundred years

01:04:09.460 is a much more pressing concern than our production of carbon dioxide but it's a concern that it is

01:04:15.460 impossible to get people to attend to now it's not the only environmental concern so you could imagine

01:04:20.820 that there are genuine environmental concerns and then there's this anti-human screeching about

01:04:26.180 overpopulation and the combination of those two forces drives the demand for an apocalyptic narrative

01:04:34.340 and then that feeds into the politician's venal wish to be seen as the saviors for a problem whose

01:04:42.900 progress towards solving can't be measured and that also enables them to proclaim themselves as

01:04:50.100 something like the saviors of the natural world right so so the reason i'm asking you this is because

01:04:56.820 i'm trying to delve into the reasons why the apocalypse narrative surrounding climate

01:05:04.180 got going to begin with now you were there at the onset of the environmental movement say with the

01:05:10.260 with the green peace types and you had your environmental concerns so what was driving your

01:05:15.380 concern at the onset and the concern of your compatriots and why did your paths deviate

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01:06:17.460 so we're we're trying to you were you were trying to get me started on that at the beginning and we

01:06:22.340 got off on too many other things but yeah i'd like to explain why i joined greenpeace and why i left

01:06:27.700 greenpeace i i think i did say that i was doing a phd in ecology and that led me into environmental

01:06:33.780 concerns and there was a hydrogen bombs being detonated by the united states in the illusion islands

01:06:40.180 and there was still atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons by france in french polynesia and that was

01:06:46.340 the first target of greenpeace's campaign it it was greenpeace the peace in in greenpeace is about

01:06:53.060 people it's not about the environment green is about the environment and so we were at the

01:06:59.220 beginning uh we were actually doing humanitarian work rather than an ecological work in some ways

01:07:05.540 i mean we were trying to stop the possibility of an all-out nuclear war by waking people up to the

01:07:11.300 arms race and all of that that was going on at the time and we actually when that was when what 1971

01:07:18.420 was 1971 was the voyage to to amchitka uh with 12 of us on a small fishing boat 85 foot boat across the

01:07:27.300 pacific ocean got arrested by the coast guard made melter cronkite's evening news and had tens of

01:07:32.980 thousands of people marching in the streets and so uh there were lots of other people involved but we

01:07:39.300 were the tip of the spear on that because we got up out and did something and quit our regular lives

01:07:45.380 and went on a three-month uh campaign uh on a on an old fish boat uh and learned a whole lot of stuff

01:07:52.900 and i had a great time and uh and and because we we all had a a motto the the revolution should be a

01:08:01.860 celebration uh not killing people and stuff and so we did that and then the next year we've had such

01:08:10.020 success we had defeated the world's most powerful organization the u.s atomic energy commission

01:08:15.060 because they stopped their next test that they were going to do nixon did that and it was very

01:08:20.660 shortly after this the bomb we were going against they did set that one off i guess they couldn't

01:08:26.740 lose that much face but uh they started they stopped that program so we said well let's head

01:08:32.580 for murray atoll in french polynesia and stop the atmospheric tests and it only took two years to do that

01:08:38.660 in a 26-foot sailboat going from new zealand while the rest of us went over to europe and the first

01:08:45.300 thing we did was we asked for an audience with the pope which he gave us and mentioned our name during

01:08:50.180 his speech from up on his porch there uh and that was pretty thrilling and and then we went to paris

01:08:58.340 and occupied notre dame cathedral just a half a dozen of us handing out pamphlets because

01:09:04.180 even le monde at that time was controlled by the state no one in france knew about the

01:09:08.500 atmospheric nuclear tests in french polynesia it wasn't a subject to be discussed and so

01:09:15.060 we are handing out these pamphlets and then we sat in the pews and as it was time for closure

01:09:20.020 the surete came in and we said we are occupying this church overnight as a demonstration and they

01:09:27.620 said excuse me sir but this is not a church it is a national monument and you will come to jail with

01:09:33.140 us if you don't get out if you're right now so we're we're actually quite smart about these things

01:09:38.500 we didn't want to go to jail and we got out but we made lamont the next morning for the first time

01:09:44.740 there'd been a story about the french atmospheric nuclear testing and then we went to stockholm

01:09:50.500 where the first international meeting on the environment took place uh where uh they were talking

01:09:56.820 about all kinds of environmental things but they sure weren't going to talk about nuclear that's what the

01:10:02.340 the superpowers as they were called in the nuclear weapon states uh made it very clear that war was

01:10:09.460 not an environmental issue and so therefore atmospheric testing wasn't an environmental issue even though

01:10:15.700 it was sending radiation around the whole southern hemisphere for months of the year and uh but but we

01:10:22.420 didn't go to the alternative conference in all of these conferences there's an alternative hippie conference

01:10:27.780 with colorful flags and dancing girls and all that sort of thing we went to the real conference because

01:10:34.740 six months earlier jim bolan and his his wife marie and i jim bolan was one of the leaders of the

01:10:41.620 early greenpeace group he's uh an engineer who worked with buckminster fuller on the on the on the domes

01:10:48.900 up north uh the dew line domes really smart guy and uh i went i went with him as an ecologist and

01:10:57.300 and his wife and we lobbied every southern hemisphere country especially the ones on the pacific

01:11:04.100 about the situation and that we were going to send a boat and all that stuff and then we went to the

01:11:09.380 stockholm conference and convinced the french uh sorry the new zealand delegation who had been the

01:11:15.380 sort of strongest against this all along and uh the new zealand delegation put a motion on the floor

01:11:22.660 against uh atmospheric nuclear testing and won by a landslide so it was a great embarrassment

01:11:29.780 uh to them all and the next year they quit they they did do one more one more year yeah they did but

01:11:37.140 then they went underground and now now they're not doing it at all and then they sank our boat in new

01:11:41.860 zealand with with land with bombs on the on the hull while people were in it one person died uh that

01:11:49.860 was that was that was the only time uh there was a fatality during a greenpeace campaign we were very

01:11:55.780 careful at our boat with our boats because boats can kill people pretty quick if the weather gets bad

01:12:02.740 and uh and i've been i've been uh i grew up on a floating village so there was nothing but boats and uh

01:12:10.340 my dad's logging camp in winter harbor on the north tip of vancouver island which we still have

01:12:16.100 a family compound there we were not in the forestry business anymore but we were for about 100 years

01:12:22.580 and uh so i grew up on a tide flat with a dock and a few houses and uh a couple of rivers and a lot of

01:12:32.340 forests and so i i i was naturally interested in uh in nature uh so i i joined greenpeace we went on these

01:12:42.420 voyages and as time went on we then uh moved into uh more environmental issues uh such as uh toxic waste

01:12:54.260 pollution uh cleaning up the rivers in europe uh north america had already passed passed good clean water and

01:13:02.100 air acts earlier than we were in the late late night late 60s but europe had not and almost every

01:13:10.020 big river the elbe the rhine the river in london the thames uh they were pretty much dead and so we

01:13:18.020 got a smaller boat the river boat we called it about a 50 foot boat and went up these rivers with

01:13:23.300 divers and plugged the pipes of the factories that were putting poison in the rivers underwater where no

01:13:28.820 one could see it going in and we so we plugged the pipes and it backed up into the factories and

01:13:33.620 that made the newspapers happy and uh we won and so that that was good and then uh a bit about the

01:13:43.380 early 80s a change occurred where environmental groups were now describing the human species as the

01:13:50.740 enemies of the earth right the cancer on the planet yeah amps and you know disaster for human for for

01:13:59.620 life and all of that so we kind of the green got dropped sorry the piece got dropped out of the green

01:14:06.180 piece and uh but it's too much like original sin for me to think that humans are the only evil animal

01:14:13.940 on the planet or evil species on the planet uh i just don't go for that i'm not into that and but the

01:14:21.540 but i stayed for a bit even though they were saying these things and how did that happen what like why do

01:14:27.140 you think that happened what what changed we were infiltrated by the political left yeah okay so that was

01:14:36.740 a it was a it was a marxist incursion yeah yeah that that makes perfect sense yeah because that that kind 0.93

01:14:43.060 of puts that anti-capitalist spin on it right yeah yeah then what happened jordan is in an

01:14:49.540 international meeting of which i was one of the directors and we had maybe 50 people around the

01:14:54.500 table by this time from all kinds of countries david mctaggart who was our chairman and had become so

01:15:02.340 in political ways uh and i negotiated the founding of greenpeace international with him in a conflict over

01:15:09.540 the use of the word greenpeace uh the san francisco office was trying to take it away from us the

01:15:15.300 founding office and of course the u.s has 20 times the fundraising capacity as canada and so it became

01:15:24.260 a civil war within greenpeace and and i we've got my our lawyer negotiated with me and david that the

01:15:31.540 contract of greenpeace international which he would become chairman and i would be the representative for

01:15:37.780 canada and i represented for u.s and i represented australia germany uh nor uh germany netherlands uk

01:15:46.580 we had nine or ten countries all with offices by this time and good fundraising going on and uh so

01:15:55.060 david was one of these people who is scared of chemicals right chemophobia it's been described as

01:16:02.900 it's sort of like being scared of the climate uh and he decided with advice from others that the

01:16:11.620 greenpeace should start a campaign to ban chlorine worldwide with capital letters and i'm going you guys

01:16:23.300 salt is sodium chloride it is an essential nutrient it is why gandhi marched to the sea to make salt

01:16:29.300 because the brits were taxing the poor people of india for an essential nutrient that they couldn't

01:16:34.340 afford and so come on but not only that adding chlorine to drinking water was the biggest advance

01:16:40.420 in the history of public health and to spas and pools and hot tubs etc and 85 of our pharmaceuticals

01:16:48.980 are based on chlorine chemistry and 25 of them actually have chlorine in them if you look at your

01:16:53.860 cold medicine you'll see a little cl there on a lot of them and so i said we can't do that you guys

01:16:59.460 we cannot ban chlorine worldwide if you have a particular chlorinated compound that you think

01:17:04.420 should be banned from industry or whatever let me know but i'm gone if you do that and i was gone and

01:17:12.660 it was peaceable it was friendly um but i i was gone and i went home to my winter harbor home and with

01:17:20.260 my brother and brother-in-law we started a salmon farm just when norway was taking off with that

01:17:25.380 industry and i ran a salmon farm for 10 years and in the end we couldn't grow them for as cheap as

01:17:32.020 they were being sold because the market is one of those things where the market just flips and suddenly

01:17:37.460 you're in a buyer's market and the early days we were in a seller's market it's a beautiful product

01:17:42.820 and i still eat a lot of salmon in particular the this the steelhead that are being grown in fresh

01:17:50.180 water i that they've got some way of making a rainbow trout get this big uh in fresh water and

01:18:00.900 baker lake is one of the main uh places where they're growing them and so is the columbia river

01:18:06.740 and it's a fantastic product and your comment about the the sea uh did did you read the book

01:18:14.820 the tragedy of the commons by garrett hardy yes do you know that yes yeah it's it it really laid it

01:18:21.380 out very clearly that unless you have and this is why this whole thing about no borders is as completely

01:18:27.780 ridiculous you you have to have jurisdictions if you're going to stop overfishing and over whatever

01:18:34.580 right right right uh and and the internet the international oceans are are are the place

01:18:41.140 where this should be figured out somehow and and actually canada and the united states and japan and

01:18:46.100 russia all have a treaty over crabs and salmon uh that keeps it from being overfished and gives quotas and

01:18:53.700 all that sort of thing so it is being practiced in some places the atlantic side though yeah there's 25

01:18:59.380 countries out there and uh and japan is this you know they don't they don't care who says what they

01:19:06.420 they own the sea and and and they're very i mean and they're on an island and you can sort of i mean

01:19:13.460 it's sort of like england yeah like great britain in that way and as you know the french and the english

01:19:20.260 have been fighting over whose fish they are for a long long time and uh the same thing goes on in other

01:19:25.620 parts of the world too and and my my grandfather was and his three brothers were salmon fishermen out

01:19:32.100 of winter harbor and my dad married his daughter and uh a logger and a fisherman and that's what we

01:19:41.620 were up there that was about all there was there was no road there was no road to winter harbor

01:19:46.740 when i was a child until i was 16 and uh when the road finally came a 75 mile gravel road from port hardy

01:19:54.100 across the north end of vancouver island to the most westerly port winter harbor on the island

01:20:00.420 and and and and on the very near the very tip of it we thought wow now this place is going to boom

01:20:06.980 half the people use the road to get out that's that's human nature for you because they had to stay

01:20:13.780 there all year and many of them never got out at all because they couldn't afford to go to town

01:20:18.180 because getting to town was a two-day trip on two boats a a taxi and and a big steamer going to

01:20:27.540 vancouver the north and south of vancouver island weren't joined together by roads until about the

01:20:32.580 1970s so the north island was a whole other place cool place to grow up so when you started to

01:20:42.180 separate yourself from greenpeace you said that the two things happened to greenpeace if i've got it

01:20:47.220 right one was the incursion of the marxist anti-capitalist types and and the anti-human

01:20:53.620 types as well who were proclaiming that human beings were something approximating a cancer on

01:20:58.660 the face of the planet so it's a real radicalization of the green element then there's the incursion of 0.96

01:21:04.500 the marxists and you also said that there was some um what would you say neurotic over concern with

01:21:11.140 chemicals as such right so that's something more like uh it's more like a phobia than a than a reasoned

01:21:19.060 position a new paper just came out that said there are more than 9 000 toxic chemicals in plastic

01:21:27.380 and they didn't name one of them but they did find 9 000 of them in there apparently and that's the

01:21:33.860 kind of stuff that's coming out they've been saying that plastic is toxic forever it is the primary

01:21:39.220 product used in health care for for blood bags for vinyl tubing you can take vinyl is the most

01:21:45.940 interesting plastic because it and it contains chlorine polyvinyl chloride so it's the the only uh

01:21:53.220 one of these polymers the plastics that has chlorine in it and because it has that different chemistry

01:22:01.140 it's able to absorb nearly anything you can put uh anti germ chemicals into it and you can use it as

01:22:10.420 flooring and wall covering in hospitals so that the germs can't grow on the floor of the walls and all the

01:22:17.780 gloves and caps and and all kinds of things are made out of plastic in health care because it is

01:22:24.100 non-toxic that's the whole point of it did i go into the the the marine plastic the the great pacific

01:22:32.580 garbage patch we haven't talked about that have we no no no well so it it's it's um it's easy for

01:22:40.980 the environmental movement to be captured in a variety of ways and that's essentially what seemed to

01:22:47.540 happen in the 1980s so what now how exactly did did you separate yourself from the group and when did

01:22:56.900 you start to become aware that the climate issue was a a tempest in a teapot let's say or even or even

01:23:04.500 something antithetical to the truth and what has been the consequence for you of that discovery

01:23:11.060 well i pretty early on i realized that co2 was one of the most essential elements for life on

01:23:17.380 earth and all of those things i mean and and between co2 and water uh there's nothing else that comes

01:23:25.140 close to the importance of those two molecules that nitrogen would be the next thing you would think

01:23:31.380 about and uh night nitrogen is interesting in that life cannot absorb nitrogen directly it has to go

01:23:40.980 through nitrogen fixing bacteria uh to in that and they they they are in plants mostly in the roots of plants

01:23:50.340 and the nitrogen fixers uh are what makes gives the nitrogen to life we can't we nitrogen is a is a really

01:24:00.180 really really weird element uh that nitrogen no2 nitrogen nitrogen dioxide it would be called uh

01:24:09.700 we can't metabolize it it has to be broken down by microscopic life forms in order for us to be able to live

01:24:18.740 so i see after learning all these things um it's just so clear to me that we we are not evil uh in in the

01:24:32.180 collective sense uh but at the same time we there is this mass confusion issue where people dress up in

01:24:43.380 weird costumes and glue themselves to roads and throw tomato juice at mona lisa and all this ridiculous

01:24:50.900 stuff you know i mean it's absolutely ridiculous but and what they're what they want i'm not quite

01:24:56.420 sure they keep saying they want the climate to get better but it is a fact that we are a tropical species

01:25:03.940 and we would they're also well the environmentalists also tend to be stridently anti-nuclear which is

01:25:10.020 extremely strange if their primary concern is actually carbon dioxide so you know that's a real

01:25:16.980 that's a real conundrum in my estimation because that seems like an obvious way forward if if that's

01:25:22.900 actually your concern i mean you can you can have an intelligent debate about the relative merits of

01:25:27.140 nuclear but if you're convinced that carbon dioxide is going to destroy the planet then nuclear seems a

01:25:32.980 perfectly reasonable alternative but the greens also fulminate actively against nuclear plants and are

01:25:39.300 having them closed down in places like california and and in germany much to the detriment both of

01:25:45.860 the economy and the environment the germans turned to burning lignite because they closed their because

01:25:52.020 they closed their nuclear plants which is so they managed to come out of the the green energy movement

01:25:59.220 producing more carbon dioxide more particulate matter less energy less reliable energy they increase their

01:26:08.900 dependence on the fascist regimes that provide fossil fuels like russia and they quintupled the price of

01:26:18.100 energy so that's nobody's nobody said logic would prevail that's for sure because the real the real

01:26:25.700 problem is is in the beginning the the the political side of the of the movement associated nuclear war and

01:26:35.140 nuclear yeah right right and and they should have nuclear nuclear energy should be in the same category

01:26:42.900 as nuclear medicine not as nuclear war right nuclear yeah nuclear energy is one of the most wonderful

01:26:50.740 things and we've had 30 years of stagnation and even reduction there's over a hundred still over a hundred

01:26:56.660 hundred reactors in north america and not one person has died from nuclear plant in north america

01:27:02.340 three mile island didn't kill anybody fukushima didn't kill anybody it was a comedy of stupidity 0.59

01:27:08.980 that yeah fukushima thing that first they built through four reactors eight feet above sea level where

01:27:15.860 they knew there had been tsunamis in the past second right that seems like a bad idea yeah the backup generators

01:27:23.540 for if the the uh plant went down which they had to at the earthquake had to shut all the plants down

01:27:31.460 but they also lost access to the grid the power lines went down so they all they had was their

01:27:37.220 backup diesel generators they started them up everything worked fine for an hour but guess where the

01:27:42.900 diesel generators were in front of the reactors towards the sea on skids they weren't even nailed down

01:27:49.940 they didn't have any houses around them and the gas tanks the diesel tanks were connected by a hose and

01:27:56.660 they were also on their own set of skids and the tsunami came and just took them up in the mountains

01:28:01.780 somewhere and that was the end of that and then one by one they melted down and then even stupider

01:28:11.060 each of those glass towers those are the westinghouse style of reactor the g the g ones are sorry those are 0.53

01:28:17.540 the ge reactor no yes that's right the westinghouse one is the one with the dome like three mile island

01:28:23.860 uh and all that is is a protection from the weather the reactors is is down low and in surrounded by a

01:28:31.540 concrete structure so those are just in case there's a leak and they don't want water falling on the

01:28:36.980 reactor or whatever and that that but when the melted a core produces hydrogen by the disassociation of

01:28:46.580 water because the cladding around the fuel is a is a catalyst for water separation so it makes

01:28:55.540 hydrogen which goes up into those towers and as soon as hydrogen gets to eight percent any spark

01:29:01.140 causes a massive explosion and they let that happen three times in a row on three separate days

01:29:07.300 because the prime minister if he in in the united states at least probably canada too if there's an

01:29:13.060 accident at a nuclear plant the head of the plant phones the prime minister or the president and

01:29:19.060 briefs them on what's happening and what he is doing about it in japan you brief them on what's happening

01:29:25.940 and then ask permission if you can do some things and he said no to the breaching of those towers

01:29:33.060 because he didn't want those uh the the radiation that was in them to get out three mile island just

01:29:39.700 if it did let it get out if three mile island would have blown up too if they had not let the

01:29:46.180 hydrogen out and there's so little radiation there's so little radiation it isn't even consequential

01:29:52.420 and this whole fear of radiation is just another fear of an invisible thing that you can't see what

01:29:57.860 it's doing and and and the rules have been made so strict that it's almost doubled the price of

01:30:03.940 building and maintaining nuclear reactors which is absolutely unnecessary whereas with windmills and

01:30:09.300 solar panels they're getting massive subsidies uh and and china's strategy

01:30:16.980 is to build lots of solar panels and windmills for themselves and then export even more than that

01:30:24.180 and tack another 10 percent onto them so theirs are pretty well free and that that's what's going on

01:30:31.060 there this whole thing about electric vehicles i mean i thought it was a free country but not when

01:30:39.300 it comes to co2 so we are allowing carbon dioxide which is actually one of the most important and benign

01:30:46.980 substances in this world absolutely the most essential element for life because we are carbon-based

01:30:53.540 life all life is carbon-based and there is absolutely no evidence that it is having any effect

01:31:00.420 whatsoever on the temperature theoretically it might have a little bit but it doesn't show in the

01:31:06.340 record yeah it has any significant there's obviously many other things that are far more important in in

01:31:14.820 in determining the temperature of the earth and one of them is the position of the tectonic plates

01:31:20.500 these cycles that we've seen the ice ages and such that the oceans are ocean currents on top and

01:31:27.220 diving below at the poles when it reaches four degrees c i mean it's it's all water is also the

01:31:32.740 only liquid that gets lighter as it gets colder that's why it breaks any other liquid the the the

01:31:40.820 the solid would float go to the bottom so if if water acted like any other element any other liquid

01:31:48.900 the the ice would have built up to within about 15 feet of the surface that's all you'd have

01:31:53.860 and then right life may not have evolved in the oceans under those circumstances let's review patrick

01:32:01.620 because we're going to run out of time and i want to just make sure that we've covered everything and

01:32:05.300 give you a chance to make a few final comments as well so we started out by talking about the fact that

01:32:12.420 we have decent records of both climate and atmosphere over about a half a billion year period and that was

01:32:19.060 about the time when multicellular life evolved and we can detect atmospheric change and temperature

01:32:26.500 looking at uh the remnants of life in the in the sedentary strata and using um the the activity of

01:32:35.300 activity of elements that decay in a radioactive and predictable manner and what we see across that

01:32:42.340 large period of time are three things we see a a planet that's often much warmer than it is now

01:32:49.220 up to seven degrees warmer and that's a planet where life is perhaps even more abundant because of the

01:32:55.540 additional warmth we see an atmosphere that almost across that entire span has far more carbon dioxide

01:33:03.940 than it does now and we see very little evidence of a profound relationship between carbon dioxide

01:33:10.500 proportion and temperature and then in the last okay okay so good we've got that we've got that

01:33:18.500 established and now over the last two and a half million years we're in an ice age the pleistocene and

01:33:25.380 that ice age is characterized by periodic movements forward of the ice and recession and there's been about

01:33:33.300 40 of them and at the moment we're actually in a period that's not only cold by immense standards

01:33:41.380 hundreds of millions of years but relatively cold by the pleistocene standard and also characterized by

01:33:47.700 an almost fatal absence of carbon dioxide that so we're close to the point where plants start to

01:33:55.460 get desperate and we're already at the point where if you give them more carbon dioxide they actually grow a

01:34:00.740 lot better and so what we're actually doing by burning fossil fuels is returning to the atmosphere

01:34:08.660 the carbon dioxide that was actually sequestered in the remains of plants and giving the plants an

01:34:14.980 opportunity to flourish which is what they're doing in consequence of carbon dioxide production as we

01:34:21.940 know because an area the size of the united states has greened in the last two decades and our crops are

01:34:27.540 actually more abundantly productive than they have been and then we all of that all of that is true

01:34:34.500 okay and then we also pointed to the fact that in the 1960s and then again in the 1980s an environmental

01:34:41.700 movement that had its utility because human beings should act as stewards for the planet got demented

01:34:49.140 first by the overpopulation advocates who were freaking out about like paul ehrlich about something that just

01:34:55.460 not only was not going to occur but didn't occur which was the widespread famine that was predicted in

01:35:02.820 consequence of the population explosion combined with the incursion of the marxists into the 1.00

01:35:08.580 environmental movement and a kind of phobia about industrial activity and nuclear activity that developed in

01:35:14.740 tandem and so here we are now spending untold tens of billions of dollars fighting against an invisible

01:35:23.940 enemy that can't be measured properly that is actually more likely to be in the final analysis our ally

01:35:31.700 there's no doubt whatsoever there's no doubt whatsoever that our emissions of co2 are the

01:35:37.380 salvation of life on earth the next interglacial period the next glacial maximum which is expected to

01:35:44.580 be about 70 000 years from now it would go below 150 if it had continued on the same path it was on

01:35:51.860 i've got the graph made out very clearly that it would it might take two more inter two more glacial

01:35:59.540 maximums for it to get to the earth dying but it would get to the earth dying there was no way

01:36:05.780 that that was going to be stopped after 150 million years of continuous decline i'd like to talk just for

01:36:12.420 a minute about the great pacific garbage patch and and the issue of pacific of plastic in the oceans it's

01:36:19.780 nothing but beneficial in the oceans in the same way that driftwood is is beneficial in the oceans and

01:36:26.420 actually many species of wood have toxic substances in them to prevent them from rotting i like like

01:36:32.660 cedar for example and redwood they have quite a few toxic substances in them and they won't build

01:36:38.500 playgrounds with them anymore in case the children bite the wood or whatever they're supposed to do

01:36:43.300 um but the fact is there's two reasons why driftwood is important in the sea first it becomes a habitat

01:36:50.340 or a feeding ground for many many species of marine life but must especially uh deep sea uh barnacles

01:36:59.140 gooseneck barnacles they just grow all over them and then other things eat those and so there's there's

01:37:04.260 nothing wrong with it whatsoever and they of course they say it turns toxic when it goes in the ocean and i go

01:37:10.340 yeah are you kidding we wrap all our food in plastic to keep it from becoming contaminated

01:37:16.020 and then you say when it goes in the ocean it becomes a toxic hazard like give me a break it

01:37:21.460 doesn't change its chemistry it's one of the most inert things in the world you keep saying it takes

01:37:26.100 two thousand years to break down and then you say it's all turned to microplastic games getting lodged

01:37:30.900 in the livers and kidneys of fish which is another lie because microplastic of course is invisible

01:37:36.900 and no one's ever actually found it but uh but the other wonderful thing is that the pacific garbage

01:37:44.420 patch is fake doesn't exist go on the internet and look for images of the pacific garbage patch

01:37:50.820 and you will see that they are all photoshopped there's not a single one of them that shows an

01:37:55.540 actual patch of plastic twice the size of texas which is what they said but nobody can see it so it might

01:38:02.020 as well be invisible just like polar bears and coral reefs it's in that's that's why i titled my book

01:38:07.220 fake invisible catastrophes and threats of doom because all of the all of these so-called

01:38:14.980 catastrophe stories are based on things that are either invisible or are remote i call it the universal

01:38:24.740 theory of scare stories and there's this this fantasy and physics that there will be a universal

01:38:30.660 theory of everything someday like time all the different right right right right i don't i doubt

01:38:35.700 that that'll happen but i don't think the world is that unified uh to be able to do that but it is true

01:38:43.620 that uh the universal theory of scare stories is a fact that they are they deal with all of them deal

01:38:51.300 with things that are either invisible or remote or in the case of gmos non-existent

01:38:57.060 and then the other thing is is that seabirds benefit from plastic immensely all birds have

01:39:04.740 a gizzard and they don't have teeth so they have to swallow things whole some of them have sharp beaks

01:39:11.700 to tear things apart but they still have to take big gulps and if it's something that can't be easily

01:39:17.300 digested in an acid stomach which they also have they have two stomachs one like ours and another one

01:39:23.460 though where they they shorebirds i mean land birds and shorebirds put pebbles they all their life they

01:39:32.740 swallow pebbles as the grinding agent in their gizzard and when the chicks are on the nest they

01:39:37.940 have to bring petals pebbles to the chicks well albatross and other seabirds there's no pebbles out

01:39:43.940 in the ocean there so they use pumice as their favorite thing but it's not available all the time because

01:39:49.860 it comes from undersea volcanoes that aren't erupting all the time but when they find that

01:39:54.100 they make a cache of it and the other thing they use is bits of wood that are of the appropriate size

01:39:59.460 and shape and today bits of plastic of the appropriate size and shape and there's one picture

01:40:05.700 of a mother albatross giving not feeding that awful man in england who does the bbc scare stories about

01:40:13.540 walruses committing suicide uh because of plastic or something i forget what he said it was it was

01:40:21.460 because a pack of polar bears we're going to eat them and they decided they'd rather fall off a cliff

01:40:26.500 than be eaten alive by polar bears uh but uh but all over the world seabirds are using bits of plastic

01:40:33.940 as a substitute for the other rare things that they have to find for their chicks and then 0.59

01:40:39.860 what's his name the tv personality on bbc who does the nature battenborough yes he's a fake

01:40:50.340 and he he says he shows a young woman as assistant of his holding up a big clear plastic bag saying this

01:40:59.220 plastic bag was given to the chick and when the chick died we did an autopsy and we found this plastic bag in

01:41:05.380 the chick it's a total lie no mother albatross or father albatross would give a plastic bag to its 0.99

01:41:10.820 chick what they give is little pieces of uniformly sized plastics that go into the gizzard and and

01:41:17.220 do this when they when they give a whole squid to a bird a baby and and themselves the squid gets ground

01:41:25.380 up and the poop gets pooped out but the beak stays in there as a grinding agent so that's one of the

01:41:32.420 ways one of the ways they get a hard object in there and uh it's it's fascinating but the smithsonian

01:41:39.220 goes along with the story that they're feeding plastic to their chicks uh and it and that it's

01:41:45.300 a negative thing it's been studied for 50 years and no one's ever found a negative thing about it

01:41:50.980 it's just a substitute for all the other little hard objects that they've got in their

01:41:56.020 in their in their region and and and and as i say there is there's it's rare to find pebbles

01:42:03.140 on a windswept rocky island and that's just the way it is and they should be telling people that it's

01:42:10.740 a great story that that our little bits of plastic are be are useful and there is no pacific garbage

01:42:17.780 patch one only one picture on the internet that i found i've looked all over for the pacific garbage

01:42:24.100 patch on on the images in the internet and there's one that shows the massive area of debris over the

01:42:31.540 ocean and a diver coming up and underneath it says part of the great pacific garbage patch

01:42:37.860 i studied that photo for a little while and realized there's mountains in the background

01:42:41.860 right in the background there's no mountains in the middle of pacific ocean

01:42:46.020 it's the debris from the tsunami that killed 18 000 people and they're using it to lie about the

01:42:55.380 plastic garbage patch because there there was 20 towns swept into the ocean and and 18 000 people

01:43:03.380 killed the the nuclear plant didn't kill anybody but cnn had a headline in the middle of of that

01:43:10.740 disaster and but it wasn't a disaster from a human life point of view two people did die they were

01:43:17.300 swept away by the tsunami but uh on the headline said nuclear crisis deepens as bodies wash ashore

01:43:27.060 that was right right right right right right and i i've looked it up and it's gone i i guess they

01:43:32.660 decided it wasn't really a very good thing for people to know about because imagine that blaming blaming

01:43:39.540 the the 18 000 bodies on the nuclear disaster so that's the kind of thing we've got going in this

01:43:45.940 world these days and i'm doing everything i can to try to straighten it out and i i think you you

01:43:51.860 saw my presentation i cover a wide number of topics and i do not believe for a minute that these scare

01:43:59.540 stories are true uh like what is it in the gmo that you're that this is a multi-billion dollar

01:44:06.260 anti-gmo campaign where the europeans are refusing to buy crops from africa if they adopt the improved 1.00

01:44:14.420 product when in fact every single one of us is genetically modified none of us are identical

01:44:19.940 to our parents that's what sexual reproduction is mixes the genes up and all they're doing 0.70

01:44:26.020 is very methodically taking a gene that they know exactly what it does in the species they're

01:44:30.740 taking it from and putting it into one that doesn't have it and that's what golden rice

01:44:35.700 is all about i worked yeah i i campaigned for five years on golden rice i came back into the

01:44:41.220 into the movement in 2013 and my brother and my wife and i and got a team of people from germany and

01:44:48.500 india and and and and and and australia and went to all the greenpeace office locations and

01:44:55.380 demonstrated in front of them and got to 30 million people by the media but it didn't it just then we

01:45:02.820 couldn't do it because they've they've got control of the environmental apparatus in the governments

01:45:08.420 uh in the same way as the this whole uh so-called what do they call it

01:45:16.100 no i forget the name of of what they what the movement what's the name of the movement woke that's

01:45:22.740 right the yeah movement i i i probably want to forget the word because it's so stupid but but

01:45:30.660 they're just they're they're they're every anything but woke and and just don't have lost all

01:45:37.060 scientific and and communicative uh faculties uh they they they're insane uh it's some kind of

01:45:45.380 mental disease as for from from my way of thinking and the climate thing is no different

01:45:51.620 than all of these other social and political things i mean equity yeah sure that's a good word

01:45:57.860 but they're using it like a sledgehammer and because all people aren't the same and and and

01:46:04.980 and good good for that we don't want all people to be the same and and to to say that white people

01:46:12.180 are all racist if that isn't racist i don't know what is how how can anybody think that way well this

01:46:19.540 is the mystery that we're trying to unpack with with podcasts exactly like this yeah yeah well all

01:46:25.540 right sir we should we should stop this um for everybody watching and listening i'm going to

01:46:32.180 continue to talk to dr patrick moore for another half an hour on the daily wire side and i think i'm

01:46:37.300 going to talk to him at least in part about the consequences of putting himself outside the more

01:46:43.460 radical um faction of the environmentalist movement so that should be a fascinating discussion and

01:46:49.380 if you want to join us on the daily wire side and throw some support their way they make these

01:46:55.060 podcasts a consequence of their generosity and uh and have helped me a lot to expand the

01:47:01.700 professionalism of the of the production and to distribute the content to a hypothetically wider

01:47:08.660 audience dr moore thank you very much for talking to me today and for walking through all that

01:47:14.020 complex material for shedding a bit more light on the relationship between um the lengthy history of

01:47:21.780 the world the climate variation that's been part and parcel of that since day one the composition of

01:47:27.460 the atmosphere the relationship between the atmosphere and climate and also the pathologies of

01:47:33.540 what would you say the modern politicization of the environmental movement much appreciated sir

01:47:39.620 and uh for everybody watching and listening thank you for your time and attention the film crew here

01:47:44.580 in jacksonville florida because that's where i am today thank you very much for your help

01:47:49.220 dr moore we'll take five and then we'll reconvene on the daily wire side thanks dr peterson it's been a pleasure

01:48:03.540 uh

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - April 11, 2024

439. Microplastics, Global Greening, & the Dangers of Radical Alarmism ｜ Dr. Patrick Moore

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