439. Microplastics, Global Greening, & the Dangers of Radical Alarmism ｜ Dr. Patrick Moore
Summary
Dr. Patrick Moore was one of the founding members of the environmentalist organization, Greenpeace, and was a founding member of the anti-nuclear campaign to protect the oceans. But Dr. Moore s early career as an environmentalist was cut short when he was recruited into a climate denialist faction within the organization, and he left to pursue a PhD in ecology at the University of British Columbia. In the process, he became disillusioned with environmentalism and joined the ranks of climate deniers, and later became a self-proclaimed climate skeptic. In this episode, we talk about his early days in the environmental movement, and how he found his way into the climate denialism faction within it, and why he left it all to become a skeptic in the first place. He also shares his views on climate change and climate change denialism, and what he believes about the existence of life on other planets and the origin and evolution of life in general. This episode is sponsored by Smartflow, a Canadian company that makes clean energy products. For a limited time, sign up and get up to $1,000 in bill credits and apply for up-to-$3,000 worth of rebates. Learn more at Smartflow.org/sustain. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more about the Smartflow Membership Program at Enbridge Sustain. The Smartflow membership opportunity is open until December 31st, 2019. Enbridge Smartflow is a limited-edition membership program that includes early-bird pricing, early bird and plant-based membership, and early bird pricing, with earlybird pricing available through Dec. 31st and Dec. May 1st through June 1st, 2020. All you can get 20% off your first month for $99, $99/month, and a total of $99.99/year, plus a discount of $150/month from Enbridge, plus an additional $25/month after that, plus you get a discount on the second year, and you'll get access to the 3-year membership offer, and all other options available for full-up to $150,99/choice, plus they'll get an additional 2 years, plus I'll get $5,000 and a discount, and they'll receive $25,000, and I'll receive an additional discount, plus the option of a discount starts after that gets you get an ad-only course starting in March, and an additional 4 months, and $16,99 and a mentor gets $4,000 gets $24,000.
Transcript
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Hello, everyone. I have the opportunity today to talk to Dr. Patrick Moore. I'd been following Dr.
00:00:52.340
Moore for quite a long time, and I had the privilege of hearing him live in a little meeting
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on Vancouver Island here recently, and we decided to do a podcast together. Dr. Moore is in the
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interesting position of being skeptical, to say the least, and unconvinced of the doomsaying
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prognostications of the climate apocalypse mongers, but also have been active in the
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environmentalist movement for 50 years. He was one of the founding members of Greenpeace back when
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they were working primarily on anti-nuclear campaigns and on campaigns to protect the remaining whales
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in the tragedy of the Commons oceans against overfishing. Dr. Moore became convinced that
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the environmentalist organizations as such were in the process of being taken over by
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actors whose primary interest was not the green movement in the environmental sense or the peace
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that Greenpeace once stood for, but more the promotion of a kind of radical self-interest
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combined with the hysterical doom-mongering that's now typical of the apocalypse promoters. And so we go
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through the evidence of climate change and environmental composition over about a 500 million year period,
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concentrating particularly on the last 2 million years, and present the hypothetically appropriate
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conclusions in that climate denialism festival. So join us.
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Well, hello, Dr. Moore. Thank you very much for agreeing to talk to me and to everybody else on this platform today.
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We met recently in Vancouver Island. It was the first time I'd heard you speak publicly, and I was very interested in
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the story you walked through. And so I thought today we could start with your adventures, your early adventures with
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Greenpeace and what you were hoping for from that environmentalist organization, and move
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from that to your divergences with their current worldview, let's say, and the reason that
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that divergence was necessary and right. So let's start with Greenpeace. Let's begin with that.
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Well, Jordan, I was doing my PhD in ecology at the University of British Columbia.
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I had excelled in the life sciences all through high school and in my undergraduate years,
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mainly interested in evolutionary biology, photosynthesis, ecology in general. And I was
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radicalized by the Vietnam War, the threat of all-out nuclear war, and the concern for the environment,
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which was a new thing. The word ecology had not yet been used in the popular press.
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It was an obscure scientific term. And I think I was the first PhD ecologist to graduate in Canada,
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as far as I don't know of any others. And so I learned through a little piece in the newspaper that
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a small group of people were beginning to meet in the basement of the Unitarian Church, which is a church
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that accepts all religions. And not that I'm particularly religious, but I agree with that sort of thing
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of peace and an end to warring and all of that sort of thing. I'm a pacifist, I guess you could say.
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But I'm also fantastically interested in nature and the evolution of life from no life to life.
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I think there's two things that we can probably be sure we will never know the answer to.
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One of them is, how did life begin? And the other one, is there anyone else in this universe besides us?
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It hasn't become apparent to date. And we've got all kinds of listening devices and we're a young star.
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The sun is a young star. So many of the stars that would have planets around them that are billions of years
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older than our star, you'd think if life was going to happen on them, it might have done so by now.
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So those are kind of my basic philosophies where I think there are things that we can never know.
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Many of them probably, maybe some that we don't even know how to speak about.
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But ecology, the science of how all living things are interrelated, not only with other living things,
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but also with the planet as a whole and even the solar system.
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Because Saturn has an effect on tides and it has an effect on these cycles of glaciation
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and interglacial periods that have been going on for 2.6 million years during the Pleistocene Ice Age.
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So that's how I see the world as everything being interconnected.
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And that brings me to, well, what is really the fundamental meaning of science and scientific discovery.
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And I have three steps that describe the scientific method.
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And if you can't observe something, either with your own senses or with the machines we've made,
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like x-ray machines and all the other things we have that we can see inside people,
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we can have radiation detectors and all that sort of thing.
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So they're part of our ability to observe what's going on in nature or in the world and in the outer world.
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And then second comes verification, where you observe something and then you see if it repeats itself over and over again
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by very carefully trying to prevent outside forces from interfering with the two things you're looking at
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where you think there might be a cause and an effect relationship.
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And that's mostly what science is about, is discovering cause-effect.
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And so you do that yourself to make sure that when you tell other people what you think you've found,
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And then there is replication, where other people see if they can do what you did.
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And if they can, especially if it's a 100% kind of thing,
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And the reason that most of the scare stories today are about things that are either invisible,
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like CO2, radiation, and the bad thing that's supposed to be in GMOs, which doesn't have a name.
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So if it doesn't have a name, it doesn't exist.
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And that's my opinion on the subject, is there's nothing in GMOs that is harmful.
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And many people are eating them by the millions.
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So that's just a total hoax, as much as the climate emergency or climate crisis,
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Because people cannot see what carbon dioxide is doing.
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They cannot do the first thing in science, which is observation.
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And therefore, for some reason, the sort of mass hysteria effect takes place around many subjects.
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And so it's not just things that are invisible, though.
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It's also things that are so remote that no one hardly can go and look at it for themselves.
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And I use the two examples of polar bears and coral reefs.
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And I've been to Indonesia on three two-week trips to all the coral reefs there,
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Happens to be also the warmest ocean in the world.
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And yet people can't see for themselves when they heard in early 2016
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that 93% of the Great Barrier Reef was dying or terminal or in its final terminal stage,
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as if there were other terminal stages before the final one.
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They said dying terminal or, you know, also bleached.
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Whereas bleached isn't like bleach that you make clothes white with.
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Bleached means they've ejected their phytoplankton.
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They're a symbiotic relationship between a polyp, which is an animal related to jellyfish,
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The tiny trillions of them in a very small area.
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And then the phytoplankton are taken in by the polyps and put under their skin, which is translucent.
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And so they can still photosynthesize in there and give some of their sugar to the polyp.
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And the polyp gives them protection from predation.
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But the point is, last year, in the middle of the summer, it was announced by the whole group of people who are studying the Great Barrier Reef that in the 36 years since they've been doing it thoroughly, it was the highest coral cover yet known.
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It's got more cover than it ever has in the last 36 years.
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And that gets in some tiny amount of media, whereas the other one went worldwide that it was dying.
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And the thing is, is that the highest biodiversity of all coral reefs is in the warmest ocean in the world, which is Indonesia.
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It's protected from the north by Asia and it's protected from the south by Australia to cold water incursions that come into the Great Barrier Reef and many others.
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But they say if it gets warmer, the corals will die.
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No, they will spread because we're coming out right now of a period when the Earth was so much warmer.
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The Eocene Thermal Maximum happened 15 million years after the dinosaur extinction, which was almost certainly caused by that asteroid that hit Yucatan and sent ash into the stratosphere where it blocked the sun and caused plants to die and mass extinctions to occur.
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And if the planet warms from what it is now, which is actually one of the coldest periods in the history of the Earth, this is the great irony.
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Now, I'll try and go just quickly into the three most important points about climate change.
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One is that this is one of the coldest periods in the history of the Earth.
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That's why the ice caps are huge ice caps are covering both the North and South Poles.
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There were forests in the South Pole and there was no ice in the Arctic until about three million years ago.
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Since 250 million years before that, when the Karoo Ice Age, which lasted 100 million years,
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the same sort of thing we're in now, where the poles are all covered in big sheets of ice,
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since 250 million years ago when it ended, the Earth has been warmer than it is now.
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So you're focusing on time frame, and this is something that's perplexed me continually with regards to both the climate debate
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and the carbon dioxide debate, because my sense is that you can derive whatever conclusion you want,
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essentially, about temperature and about carbon dioxide and about the relationship between temperature and carbon dioxide
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by merely arbitrarily choosing a particular period of time to study.
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Now, what struck me about the presentation of yours that I saw was that you circumvented that to some degree
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And so the claim that you just made, let me just lay it out again for everyone who's watching and listening,
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is that over the last 250 million years, we've rarely been in a period that's as cold as it is now.
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And that for much of that time, when there was no shortage, we never have been.
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Now, there have been periods of time in the Earth's history when the whole Earth was an ice ball.
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Two billion years ago. It's theoretical. It isn't proven.
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It is possible that there were ice ages that were more extreme than the three that have occurred in the last half billion years.
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The Silurian was a shorter ice age that occurred when CO2 was at 6,000 parts per million.
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You know, it's 400 and some now, and they're saying it's going to make the Earth go on fire.
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So, and then the Carew was 100 million years long.
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And it was very similar in temperature to the one we're in now.
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You see, the International Stratigraphy Institution, I think that's not quite its name,
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but stratigraphy is the layers of the Earth that you can read, the ages and the fossils and stuff like that.
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They have declared this Holocene interglacial period as a new epoch.
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The Pleistocene is an epoch, and it's lasted for 2.5 million years,
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and there have been at least 40 interglacial periods no different from this one during that time.
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Okay, that's a span of how long did you say, the Pleistocene?
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2.6 million years is, it's arbitrary, but it was going down, down, down, down, and they said,
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okay, this is where we'll call it the Pleistocene, because it had become so much colder than it was 50 million years ago.
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And it had gone down quickly, and then it leveled off for a while for about another 10 million years.
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And then it crashed down to where we are now with the fact that we are in as cold a period as has ever existed in the past 550 million years.
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Now, as for Ice Ball Earth, Ice Ball Earth is too long ago to have accurate records.
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There's all kinds of, I've read a lot about it, and there's a lot of speculation involved in it.
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Obviously, the world didn't freeze over completely, or there wouldn't be any life here again.
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I mean, life had already occupied all the oceans of the world by that time, and there was no life to speak of on land.
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The reason I don't go back except to say that photosynthesis and sexual reproduction both evolved during that earlier period,
00:16:54.940
But multicellular life never came into existence until about 560 million years ago.
00:17:01.960
Before that, everything, every living thing, had been unicellular, microscopic, and confined to the sea.
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Okay, so let's get the biggest picture here and zoom in a little bit.
00:19:00.840
So 4.5 billion years ago about we have the emergence of the Earth.
00:19:04.740
We have the emergence of life, what, three and a half billion years ago?
00:19:12.680
We have an unbelievably long span of essentially three billion years then when life is unicellular.
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500 million years ago, we get the emergence of multicellular life.
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And that's the time when you start to focus in on the data, thinking that, at least in part, the evidence for anything that happened before that is thin and speculative.
00:19:36.660
How good is the evidence for our conception of climate and atmospheric composition from 550 million years ago to now?
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And also, from what sources is that evidence derived?
00:19:54.520
How do we know how much carbon dioxide there was in the atmosphere across that 500 million year period?
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And how much more accurate do our estimates get as the millions of years progress?
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The best evidence started to occur in 1958 in the International Geophysical Year when ships went out all over the world and drilled deeply into the marine sediments
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to look at various proxies, oxygen 18 is a really important one.
00:20:33.160
It has to do with different decay rates of different isotopes of various elements.
00:20:40.900
I'm not an expert on this, but I know that's how it's done.
00:20:45.020
Also, the foraminifera, which are a tiny shelled animal that lives in the sea and is of huge abundance,
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we know from the shape of their shells how long ago it was, along with the proxy radiation stuff.
00:21:06.220
So we can look deep down into these sediments and see the evolution of life.
00:21:12.060
And the first multicellular life was pretty well all just like jellyfish.
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And the clam family went off to make a shell like a knight in armor, like a protective plating around its whole body
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and made it much less susceptible to predation.
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But the bony fish decided to have, then they started from way, way back, you know, that same sort of 500 million year period.
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And the skeleton and the central spine became a very desirable thing to have, to hold the fleshy part together.
00:21:59.940
And academics could learn from that, Patrick, I would say, the importance of a spine, you might say.
00:22:12.080
But you'll find that everything that has a spine can run pretty fast because we don't have a shell around us.
00:22:18.840
Whereas the bivalves and univalves and all of the other shelled species in the sea in particular,
00:22:26.960
there are freshwater clams and mussels, which is proof that the oceans won't become so acidic, as they like to say,
00:22:35.520
less alkaline is what they really mean, that it's going to melt all the shells of the shelled creatures in the sea.
00:22:44.160
I have a paper on it called, basically, a re-look at this idea.
00:22:52.620
Because it only emerged, the whole idea of ocean acidification emerged when the temperature stopped rising in the late 90s.
00:23:02.020
And everybody's going, oh, no, we have to create a new scare story because this one isn't working as well as it used to.
00:23:08.220
And that's the kind of thing that drives a person, like me, nuts, because they get away with this.
00:23:16.760
And so the shelled creatures, though, can be, what's the word for stay in one place?
00:23:29.000
And they can be, like oysters and all those shelled species.
00:23:34.800
But the jellyfish are still around, but most of them have stingers.
00:23:40.880
So they don't have to be able to run away too fast because the other species know that it's not a very pleasant experience to swallow one.
00:23:47.700
and so all the all these different uh strains the the phylum of life many phylum have emerged
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in this 500 million year period and the only reason they're still here is because they were
00:24:01.400
successful now people say that when i say well the eocene thermal maximum was like way hotter
00:24:09.160
than it is now there was no ice anywhere for 250 million years and life thrived the dinosaurs
00:24:15.820
thrived if it hadn't been for the asteroid they'd still be here but it made room for us mammals
00:24:23.000
to fill the gap and so they say but no but humans couldn't have lived through that
00:24:28.340
no but their ancestors did if if we wouldn't be here if our ancestors hadn't lived through the hot
00:24:34.840
period and so that that this 500 million years gives you absolute proof that the the climate
00:24:43.160
emergency and and this strong relationship between co2 and temperature they are out of sync
00:24:50.520
through that 500 million year period more than they're in sync and that is not not a cause-effect
00:24:57.600
relationship okay so let's review this so so far we've established that we have reasonable records
00:25:05.980
of climate and atmosphere for a 500 million year period let's say and we've derived that in part
00:25:12.000
from the study of um radioactive isotopes and partly from the study of the shells of shelled animals
00:25:18.820
that have been around for an extraordinarily long period of time and so we can get a pretty decent
00:25:22.480
picture of both climate and atmospheric uh composition during that period of time and what we see
00:25:30.420
is that for much of that period of time in fact for all of it in in your estimation um the planet was in
00:25:39.100
fact much warmer than it is now to the point where there was no ice for most of that period of time
00:25:43.860
on either pole yet during that period life flourished abundantly also during that period
00:25:51.540
is 500 million year period for almost all of that time there not only was more carbon dioxide in the
00:25:58.240
atmosphere than there is now there was like there was way more five times more ten times more and the
00:26:05.640
consequence of that was that plants flourished also the carbon dioxide and the temperature during that
00:26:14.220
period are radically out of sync and not obviously causally related is does that is that a good summary of
00:26:22.940
the 500 million year evidence so indeed it is okay well i just say that the the caroo ice age lasted 100
00:26:34.020
million years the silurian only lasted for about 10 million years ours is only 2.5 million years and
00:26:40.080
they're declaring it over without any evidence whatsoever that it's anything like over as a matter
00:26:45.940
of fact of the 40 interglacial periods that have occurred the the most recent ones have shown a
00:26:53.460
continuing decline in the warmth of the warm periods which are the short periods it goes it takes
00:26:59.600
85 000 years to sink from where we are now back to the next major glaciation see they call it the last
00:27:07.380
ice age the one that occurred 20 000 years ago no it was the most recent glacial maximum of which there
00:27:15.180
have been 40 during the place to see an ice age and the the amazing thing is is that the the cycles
00:27:23.260
that are occurring here are are asynchronous like for the first half one and a half million years it was a
00:27:32.460
40 000 year cycle in keeping with the shape of the earth's orbit which is affected by the mag by
00:27:41.140
by jupiter's gravitational field jupiter affects both our our our our circle around the it's not a circle
00:27:50.520
it's a oval but it changes shape in tune with jupiter's gravitational effect as as it goes around
00:27:58.380
the sun and then the the tilt of the earth is is affected by jupiter's gravitational effect
00:28:06.080
and so is the wobble the north star won't always be the north star because the tilt wobbles like this
00:28:14.520
in a 20 000 year cycle right i'm using round numbers it's like 21 or something but so this period we've
00:28:22.500
had now for the last 2.5 million years the graph shows very clearly from ocean sediment analysis
00:28:29.060
that it's still getting colder in the cold periods okay so that's the place to see that last two and a
00:28:36.020
half million years and that's the time that's been characterized by 40 processions of ice
00:28:41.920
yes the last of which was the last ice age no no the most recent mate
00:28:48.100
recent glaciation the ice age is the place to see oh yes sorry yes yes and and but people you've got
00:28:55.700
that in your head because they're pouring it into you every day that it was the last ice age when when
00:29:01.060
it is this is the last ice age it's called the place to see and it's the most
00:29:05.620
recent ice age but we also have these glacial maximums occurring and and and so this is called
00:29:16.620
the place to see and conundrum because no one knows quite exactly how that happened okay so let me
00:29:21.320
rephrase that so two and a half million per year period which in in totality is an ice age that's
00:29:28.260
characterized by the movement and the reset the movement forward and the recession of of the ice
00:29:34.140
masses and the last major movement forward was 20 000 years ago but we're still in and and now
00:29:43.500
are we're at the tail end of the recession where are we in that process no we're at the tail end of
00:29:50.320
the interglacial period if it's anything like pretty well all of the previous ones it really only lasts
00:29:55.960
about 10 000 years and the first part of it is warmer than it is people are not even willing to
00:30:02.340
look at 10 000 years they want to say from 1850 right yeah that's when the industrial era began and
00:30:09.680
now it's the industrial area that is causing this slight change in in global temperature when in fact
00:30:16.420
this change started more like in 1600 that was the peak of the little ice age as it was called and it
00:30:22.820
wasn't an ice age either it was just a a cold period during an interglacial period during a warm period
00:30:31.600
so but the little ice age was the coldest it's been since about 10 000 years ago as it was coming up
00:30:38.800
out of the real glacial maximum i can't tell right at the beginning exactly how many there were and where
00:30:46.500
you really start and all that stuff but it's in the neighborhood of 40 glacial maximums first on 100 000
00:30:52.620
year cycles sudden switch to 40 000 year cycles both of which tie in with the uh jupiter
00:31:01.520
gravitational theory um this was discovered in the 1920s uh but they didn't have that they didn't have
00:31:09.520
the detail that we have today um the the fact is is what i call it is the most recent glacial maximum
00:31:18.180
was 20 000 years ago they call it the last because last can also mean final as well as most recent
00:31:25.760
right so most recent is much more accurate than final i don't know why final would would be used
00:31:33.440
unless they thought it was the last one and there's absolutely no evidence for that because we have
00:31:39.160
already started about 6 000 years ago going downwards slowly till we came to the little ice age and it was
00:31:46.500
only 400 and some years ago that that happened people starved in the northern parts of europe because
00:31:52.300
it was too cold to grow food and and it doesn't take that much temperature a couple three degrees celsius
00:31:59.200
makes the area where you can grow food move quite a bit just like the in the glacial maximums there was a
00:32:07.520
mile of ice over and two miles of ice and three miles of ice and around churchill like four miles of
00:32:16.600
ice on top of the land and and there was almost nowhere in canada that wasn't completely glaciated
00:32:22.920
a few places where there's very little precipitation in the in the alaska area yukon area but basically
00:32:30.460
the whole country was covered in a massive sheet of ice which went way down into the northern tier u.s states
00:32:35.900
new york had a mile of ice on it so and that was only 20 000 years ago and that had occurred
00:32:41.680
time after time after time for 2.5 million years and again there is absolutely no indication
00:32:50.280
that the pleistocene is anywhere near coming to an end everything points to it getting colder
00:32:57.060
or staying the same maybe the chance of it going back up is five percent if you look at the evidence
00:33:04.340
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okay so if we look at the last two and a half million years we're in an age that's cold enough to
00:34:21.700
frequently have the progression of the glaciers and that's happened and they've receded 40 times now you
00:34:28.520
made allusion to some of the forces that are multiple forces that are causing that you talked
00:34:35.120
about the the um the tilt of the earth's orbit and the and what would you say the irregularities in
00:34:41.880
that tilt so that's a source of variability you talked about yes what if the earth points more
00:34:47.360
towards the sun then the solar radiation goes further north and further south and in our winter there
00:34:53.320
summer so it it it can that seems to be where it was triggered was was by these the cycles fit
00:35:02.680
perfectly so you you sort of have to go well that looks like it's a cause-effect relationship right
00:35:08.120
and it happens so many times and and you said the wobble itself is affected by even more distal forces
00:35:17.660
like the the gravitational pull of jupiter so there's many many forces at play that are determining
00:35:23.880
these large-scale cycles of climate over tens of thousands of years tens of thousands of year periods
00:35:30.220
and it you don't believe that there's any evidence whatsoever there are cycles upon cycles upon cycles
00:35:37.420
upon cycle right and you don't believe that carbon dioxide production per se that is one of the major
00:35:43.800
okay so so let's still drag into that because or drill into that because i'm going to do everything
00:35:49.260
i can push back against you to to evaluate that argument because we want to give the devil his due
00:35:55.320
so i could say all right so the first thing i might say is well you could be right in that
00:36:01.080
there's been a tremendous amount of variation across large spans of time but the rate of change
00:36:09.920
change at the moment since 1850 is sufficient so that those perturbations will be hard for natural systems
00:36:17.660
to adapt to and they threaten the stability of the cultures that we've generated predicated as they are
00:36:25.320
on a particular uh what would you say manifestation of weather and climate and so
00:36:30.860
the right span of time is a 200 year period and not these tens of thousands of years or millions of years
00:36:37.280
even that you're insisting upon so how would you respond to that objection well john clauser
00:36:44.620
who got the nobel prize in physics in 22 or 3 has just joined the co2 coalition of which i'm
00:36:53.060
a director founding director and we're a group that only accepts people that we want to come in you
00:37:00.160
can't just pay money and be a member uh we we know what we're talking about we've got uh some of the top
00:37:07.280
uh atmospheric scientists and et cetera in the world as as as our group and we're also associated
00:37:14.120
with clintel in europe uh which is a climate international uh alliance i believe it's that
00:37:21.740
stands for and we're we're pretty much on the same page because it's the only page that makes any sense
00:37:29.400
uh the the the fact is is and john clauser said it this way the difference between the temperature 200
00:37:38.240
years ago and the temperature now and you're going to this 1.5 degrees and the earth is going to burn up
00:37:45.060
or whatever that's let that's less than that's less than between breakfast and lunch everywhere in the
00:37:52.540
world 1.5 degrees celsius it it is so stupidly ridiculous to say that a 1.5 degrees celsius
00:38:02.720
increase in global atmospheric temperature is going to be a disaster as a matter of fact it will open up
00:38:09.520
vast areas of farmland that were too cold before a lot of this you know i live in comox uh where i'm
00:38:17.580
just barely halfway to the north pole and it's too cold for things to grow for large parts of the year
00:38:25.520
and it would be nice if it was warmer and the other thing that not many people know is that when the
00:38:32.860
earth warms uh say back in the day this is many millions of years ago when it was much warmer than
00:38:39.260
it is now uh it it it does go more towards the poles the equator doesn't change it it's a a constant
00:38:49.720
that like the poles actually became subtropical uh during some of the interglacial periods before the
00:38:57.960
ice age came the ice didn't start building up in antarctica until about 30 million years ago
00:39:04.200
and the ice didn't start building up in the arctic until about 5 million years ago the south pole is
00:39:10.960
always colder than the north pole the southern hemisphere is colder because it's mostly ocean and
00:39:17.060
it takes a lot more energy to heat up the oceans than it does to heat up the land you're only
00:39:23.240
heating up a little bit like this but the oceans are like the atmosphere are in in cycle they're in
00:39:30.160
lots of lots of different cycles exchanges so they're moving heat all over the place whereas
00:39:36.620
the land doesn't move heat it just absorbs it and so the the the the northern hemisphere has always
00:39:44.100
been colder than the southern well since the land masses were reasonably in the same place they are now
00:39:49.840
over of course over the hundreds of millions of years the tectonic plates have moved around quite a bit
00:39:55.940
and at one time they were all in one continent with all the rest of the world being ocean gone gone
00:40:01.780
to wanna land i think that's what that was um and so the the the the flows of heat uh but the the point
00:40:10.580
is is that in the eothene thermal maximum the temperature was at least five to seven degrees celsius
00:40:18.180
warmer than it is now maybe even more and how long were we topics it there were
00:40:25.940
50 million years ago was the peak of the eocene thermal maximum as it's called and coming out of
00:40:31.940
the glacial uh coming out of the dinosaur extinction there were 15 million years where it still was
00:40:38.820
going up it had gone it had gone down about halfway to where it is now in the middle of this 250 million
00:40:46.660
year period but it was nowhere near and cold enough for any ice to be on the earth and at the same time co2
00:40:52.980
was going in the exact opposite direction than the the whole of the um temperature was and that you can
00:41:01.300
see that in the in the graphs that that there is no clear relationship but the thing about co2 is
00:41:08.820
actually it is a greenhouse gas but clouds are so much more important you know water is the most
00:41:16.660
interesting one because they're not properly modeled i also understand that in the client the
00:41:23.140
climate models don't have sufficient resolution to appropriately model the clouds so you talked
00:41:28.180
about 1.5 degrees and that number has always bothered me because um i i understand if i'm correct that
00:41:36.420
that's within the error margin of the estimates of the forcing effect of water vapor i understand that it
00:41:43.780
it's a small enough measurement so that we can't determine um if it can be validly detected in terms
00:41:50.740
of an increase given our inability to model the effects of clouds i understand that we don't have
00:41:57.700
temperature measurements from terrestrial weather stations that are sufficiently reliable over even
00:42:04.180
a period of several hundred years to ensure that our estimates are accurate within a degree and a half
00:42:09.780
i mean i learned this not least by reading michael crichton about or crichton about 20 years ago when he
00:42:17.460
wrote one of the first exposés on the climate scam pointing out that most of our terrestrial weather
00:42:24.020
stations were placed in outside of cities to begin with but that they've been the subject of encroachment
00:42:31.780
by the urban heat island since and that in consequence their temperature estimates have to be
00:42:37.780
corrected for that encroachment and there's error in that measurement as well so yes and not only that
00:42:45.540
they're they're playing with the numbers they're making it seem colder before that they're actually
00:42:50.820
noah the national oceanic and atmospheric administration is actually it's they're lying they're
00:43:00.020
they're saying oh there's a good reason to show that it was hotter now and colder than and then
00:43:04.500
they change the numbers and they're doing it without telling anybody and then the graphs go out i mean
00:43:10.740
this whole thing is still corrupt and it's basically the problem is is that politicians who uh work by
00:43:18.740
scaring people uh that if this happens you know you vote for me and i'll make sure this doesn't happen
00:43:25.060
uh but they quietly get their bureaucrats to give billions of money to scientists in universities who
00:43:34.980
know that if they don't go along with the story they're going to get fired never never mind they
00:43:42.740
actually cannot counter this without being shunned and if you've seen what's happened recently with the
00:43:50.500
the big universities and the the kind of horrible stuff coming out from these people not just on
00:43:59.540
climate but on social issues and war and all that sort of stuff and that's not i don't talk about that too
00:44:06.180
much yeah but i follow it i follow it very closely and there there there's so so the all these scientists
00:44:15.620
publish all these papers with with doom and gloom as the main theme you don't see the big corporations
00:44:23.060
doing that sort of stuff they're trying to make things that are useful and now they're being forced
00:44:28.900
into this electric vehicle thing you know that using fossil fuels to make electricity is only 35
00:44:36.100
to 40 percent efficient and then you're going to use that use that electricity to run your car
00:44:43.540
and it's only so efficient i mean it's more efficient than burning fossil fuels but you're
00:44:47.940
burning fossil fuels 65 of all the electricity in the united states is still bought by fossil fuels
00:44:54.900
and they're pretending that that doesn't have any co2 emissions because the cars don't okay so let's let
00:45:00.740
let's turn our attention momentarily to to the co2 issue so i became aware six or seven years ago
00:45:10.740
of the greening global greening phenomenon so now we've been told for 60 years that as the carbon
00:45:19.700
dioxide rates increase and the temperatures inexorably rise that what will inevitably happen
00:45:26.180
is that the semi-arid areas will turn arid and the deserts will expand but what's actually happened
00:45:34.740
and yeah not just the opposite in a little way the opposite in an absolutely mind-blowing and
00:45:43.460
unequivocal way which is what's happened is that because we're actually in a carbon dioxide drought which
00:45:50.180
is also what your data point to we're down to about 4 30 parts per million and plants start to die
00:45:56.100
at 150 parts per million the plants are literally gasping for metaphorically gasping for breath and so
00:46:03.540
they have their stomata open too wide and that means they lose a lot of water and that means that the
00:46:10.340
semi-arid areas in the earth are wider than they should be larger than they could be could be so now
00:46:16.900
carbon dioxide levels have gone up and not even that much and the consequence of that is that the
00:46:22.420
plants are thriving in comparison and this has happened over only a 20-year period and so the
00:46:29.060
the amount of the earth that's greened since the year 2000 is equivalent to the total land area of the
00:46:35.940
united states right it not only that there's been a market improvement in crop production it's like 13 to
00:46:43.060
15 percent so not only is the planet not desertifying it's doing the opposite and near the deserts right
00:46:51.540
in semi-arid areas plus instead of that being a threat to food production it's actually enhanced
00:46:57.460
food production worldwide so my sense is that if we weren't ideologically addled and we were looking
00:47:04.580
just at the straight data with the with the eyes of let's say new investigators we'd look at the release
00:47:11.380
of carbon dioxide of the of the plant-based carbon dioxide sequestration from the fossil fuel reservoirs
00:47:21.060
as the return of a necessary nutrient to the atmosphere and we would consider it a net positive
00:47:28.420
and so what do you think about that is that like i just can't draw any other conclusion when i found out
00:47:35.060
that the the area of green on the planet had expanded that much in 20 years it was well it was i didn't
00:47:43.220
know what to think of that because not only does it indicate that the desertification by carbon dioxide
00:47:52.020
hypothesis is erroneous it's actually the opposite of that it's literally an anti-truths the notion that
00:48:00.180
carbon dioxide will cause desertification and it seems to me that environmentally oriented people
00:48:06.340
should be thrilled that the planet has become substantially greener and that agricultural
00:48:12.340
land is more productive because it means we'd have to use less of it so you know i've gone so far as to
00:48:18.100
delude myself into thinking that adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is one of the most effective
00:48:24.500
ways we can possibly distribute fertilizer so given that we need to burn fossil fuels for all sorts of
00:48:31.460
other reasons and so that's so far away from the current narrative that it seems like a delusion so
00:48:37.220
what do you think of that what do you make of that you studied well um yes it that's all of what you said
00:48:44.900
is absolutely true and many of us like you and i know about this and it falls on deaf ears for some
00:48:51.300
reason and and i go back to uh burning witches then throwing virgins into volcanoes um people did these
00:48:59.220
things and the rest of the people accepted it or even supported it and so i i what is it some kind of
00:49:08.020
collective death wish because the fact is during the most recent glacial maximum as i like to call it
00:49:14.340
20 000 years ago co2 sank to 180 ppm in the atmosphere that's because when the oceans cool
00:49:22.580
they absorb more co2 and when they warm they outgas co2 i i use the example of taking a glass of cold
00:49:30.900
water out of the fridge and putting it on your counter in a few minutes bubbles begin to form on the glass
00:49:37.060
inside that's the gas coming out of the water put it back in the fridge they disappear so henry's law
00:49:44.020
is the is an actual scientific formula that determines the equilibrium between co2 in the
00:49:50.900
water and in the atmosphere and given that the water is 70 of the land's area this is a fairly
00:49:57.700
major factor in things and so it went down to 180 and as you know at 150 plants die right so it is
00:50:06.900
thought that many of the high elevation plants did die for lack of co2 because as you go up the air thins
00:50:12.740
out so 150 150 parts per million becomes a lower number as you go up yeah and and so that because
00:50:23.060
there's ash ash deposits at those altitudes that seem to seem to be like pervasive uh that and i think
00:50:31.700
that's a logical uh conclusion uh i mean in other words it it's not a bad hypothesis uh because it was so
00:50:40.660
low and and and and and so i say that human emissions of co2 are salvation not not a not a destructive
00:50:50.580
tragedy or emergency or crisis it is actually that we this species has not only figured out how to build
00:51:00.180
airplanes and spaceships and computers but we have also reversed the continuous downward trend for the
00:51:10.020
last 500 million years with a few blips up and down in between but for the last say 150 million years
00:51:19.060
it's been a steady downward line when you're a cpa numbers are beautiful chartered professional
00:51:25.460
accountants of canada is your national body representing you and your interests nationally and
00:51:31.140
internationally championing your profession your business and your career one national voice the
00:51:37.540
number that matters most yours together we make the profession stronger because there's strength in
00:51:43.860
numbers be part of cpa canada join now at cpa canada.ca backslash join starting with regards with with
00:51:53.860
regards to carbon dioxide percentage from 2500 ppm 150 million years ago to 180 20 000 years ago and when
00:52:02.820
we came out of that most recent glaciation took about 10 000 years to get up to what's called the
00:52:09.460
holocene climate optimum because the first 10 the first 5 000 years of the holocene were warmer than it is
00:52:18.100
now the sahara was green co2 was a little bit higher it went up to about 280 after the after the the 180
00:52:29.540
the warming of the oceans caused outgassing and made it 280 by the time industry began and then industry
00:52:37.780
has taken it from 280 to 425 or 6 or something right now and it just keeps getting greener but the
00:52:46.100
sahara's not green yet yeah right because it isn't yet i've read that it's shrinking on its southern
00:52:53.220
expense yes it is but uh the the fact is there are red dots on maps showing all the villages that were
00:53:01.620
all across the sahara desert with goat herders and sheep and stuff like back then for for thousands of
00:53:07.460
years and one of the reasons they say the egyptian civilization began was they all had to move into the
00:53:14.020
the nile valley uh because it was the only place where there was enough water to live
00:53:19.780
and the sahara became a desert six thousand years ago or five thousand something like that but anyways
00:53:26.100
that's the time when when uh everybody had to move move and and that created one of the first big urban
00:53:33.140
centers along with the middle east okay so so so let me let me extend the criticism of the current
00:53:43.460
climate apocalypse mongering on a different ground and then let's let's investigate for a brief period of
00:53:51.380
time why this story might be making itself manifest you already pointed to some degree to the corruption
00:53:58.020
of the scientific enterprise but but there's that's not the whole story so so um my license in
00:54:06.180
canada to practice is is being threatened right by my professional board one of the reasons for that by
00:54:11.380
the way is that some complainant some random complainant in the united states who i never had
00:54:17.700
any professional dealings with whatsoever like all the people who complained about me by the way
00:54:23.060
submitted the entire transcript of a joe rogan interview that i did on where i discussed climate
00:54:30.420
in some of the same ways that we're discussing it and one of the things i pointed out was that
00:54:35.860
the models that we use are radically dependent on a set of initial presuppositions they're not very
00:54:43.300
accurate in their estimates of such things as terrestrial temperature they don't model water vapor well or
00:54:48.980
clouds and and so they're and they're not data they're models and so they're not reliable and
00:54:56.980
then they are fueled in their development by the people who want the apocalypse mongering to continue
00:55:03.700
so that makes me very skeptical of them but then there's something even worse they use those models to
00:55:09.380
generate a hundred year prognostication which is a long way out there and and that means the farther
00:55:16.020
you go out with your models the more the errors multiply but then they stack an economic model on
00:55:22.100
top of that and claim that the consequence of the 1.5 degree elevation in temperature is computable
00:55:30.740
economically one century from now and that the consequences will be devastating well you know i read
00:55:37.540
all of bjorn lomberg's careful work and bjorn has accepted the iocc prognostications about temperature
00:55:45.380
increase and he's calculated what that's likely to cost us in relationship to the fact that our
00:55:51.860
economies continue to grow and that people are flourishing and his conclusion is that not only is
00:55:58.420
there no climate apocalypse because that's a complete bloody lie in the way that you just described but
00:56:03.700
there's also no economic uh uh apocalypse even if the climate scientists are right because our proclivity
00:56:12.420
to become more productive will radically overwhelm the slight detrimental effect of any climate
00:56:18.740
transformation and so anyways for stating all that that's part of the reason that my license as a
00:56:26.020
clinical psychologist is being threatened which is you know sort of an indication of the current state
00:56:30.660
of the world and so i don't know if you have anything to say about the economic models or if we should just
00:56:36.420
leave that lie and so so what do you think of that line of reasoning economics is sort of in the middle of
00:56:45.700
real hard science uh and i don't know naturopathy or something um not that i don't agree with a lot of
00:56:58.660
naturopathy but it's soft versus hard science type thing and you know it's just so insane that
00:57:08.340
they are doing this because the ipcc itself the intergovernmental panel on climate change
00:57:15.700
part of the united nations apparatus it's partly the meteorological
00:57:20.340
uh association uh and the uh environmental center in nairobi and they're very political of course but
00:57:29.300
twice during the publication of their large volume they they they have a public one for the public but
00:57:37.300
they also have a big volume that they put out every four years and twice they have said to effect
00:57:44.180
it is impossible to determine future climate trends you see chaos the very definition of chaos is
00:57:54.980
is that you can't see through it i i've been a boater all my life and built a few of them too
00:58:01.540
and uh i love the bow wave uh because at a certain speed you're going slow and it's a beautiful
00:58:09.940
laminar flow around the bow it's there's no turbulence and then you get going a little
00:58:16.100
faster a little faster it becomes turbulent and frothy it's impossible to predict where each of the atoms
00:58:23.620
are in that chaotic system and that's the same thing as the climate there's no possibility that anybody
00:58:32.020
can predict the future with a computer it's especially well you can predict some things with a
00:58:39.300
computer if you've got a perfectly linear thing that you're looking at yeah but you can't predict
00:58:45.380
something as complicated as the global climate another point i'd like to make is that you know
00:58:52.900
people are saying that it's going to get too hot to live on the earth we are a tropical species
00:59:00.020
we're not polar bears that's why we're not covered in massive fur coats because we we evolved at the
00:59:06.980
equator and we we stayed there for a very very long time and couldn't come out of there even my place
00:59:14.260
here in baja on the tropic of cancer is too cold for people if they don't have shelter and fire so i
00:59:21.700
believe that the control of fire was the beginning of the species called humans and that it went from there
00:59:30.100
to clothing and needles for knitting hides together and then nice houses and with nice fireplaces and
00:59:39.780
lots of wood around and you know one of the reasons the forest fires are so bad in the western u.s
00:59:44.900
is they don't clean the wood off the ground and they let trees die and just stand there back in the day
00:59:50.900
before there was any fossil fuels every village every tribe every town every city they collected all the
00:59:57.300
dead wood for miles around their dwelling places and used it for their firewood in the winter
01:00:03.220
because it was dry already and easy to get because it was already on the ground right and so people
01:00:08.660
don't recognize that and you got to manage a forest properly if you don't want it to turn into a
01:00:13.300
conflagration like they have done in california and many of the other western states it but back to uh
01:00:20.980
clouds johnie mitchell i've looked at clouds from both sides now from up and down and still somehow
01:00:32.100
it's clouds illusions i recall we really don't know clouds at all she said one of the most prophetic
01:00:40.500
scientific things of any modern singer and this is true we cannot predict the clouds
01:00:48.100
clouds and and and they have multiple forces they they reflect sunlight off the top they keep the
01:00:54.980
earth's heat in at the bottom they rain all over the place and make everything wet and then you've got
01:01:00.980
the fact that that h2o name me another compound that has all three states gas liquid and solid the ice
01:01:11.940
has a huge effect too when it comes like it has now so water is really the one that we should be
01:01:19.060
focusing on right right but i don't think i don't think we would come to the conclusion that we should
01:01:23.700
get rid of the water in the same way they're saying we should get rid of the co2 these people who are
01:01:29.700
building billion dollar things to to store co2 yeah i know co2 sequestration it's stunning they
01:01:37.780
they really they really should be put in chains and not allowed to do that you know it's so ridiculous
01:01:46.500
it'd be just as effective to go to door to door with a with a pistols take people's money and burn
01:01:52.020
it in the backyard it's it's equally insane okay so so it is about that that's a good yeah yeah it's about
01:02:00.980
it's about it's insane okay so so let's let's look underneath this and this also will tap into
01:02:08.420
something paradoxical about you i would say so let me lay this out and tell me tell and then you tell
01:02:14.180
me what you think about it okay so my sense is that the great climate apocalypse narrative emerged
01:02:21.860
essentially out of the concerns of people like the club of rome and the concerns in the 1960s that
01:02:29.060
the human race was going to that we were basically we could be modeled like mold in a petri dish and
01:02:36.740
that we would expand our population till we consumed all available resources and perish in a
01:02:42.420
in a cataclysm and that that had to be stopped and that was the sort of um dire situation put forth by
01:02:50.820
the biologist paul ehrlich for example who's been beating this drum ever since the mid-60s okay so the
01:02:57.460
club of rome people got together in the mid-60s and they decided that there were way too damn many
01:03:03.300
people on the planet something radical had to be done about that which is a bit of a dangerous
01:03:07.860
presumption in my estimation right and a bit of an anti-human presumption but um in any case
01:03:16.500
the consequence of that was the emergence of the more radical side of the environmentalist movement now
01:03:22.980
i hesitate to say just that and this is where i would really like your input because there are a
01:03:29.700
number of reasons for wise people to be cautious and concerned about the relationship between human
01:03:38.660
beings and the and the broader ecological system so i spent a lot of time analyzing human effects on
01:03:45.940
the so-called environment and i came to the conclusion that we're misdirecting our apocalyptic
01:03:53.540
attention in a variety of pathological matters because for example i think that the fact that we're
01:03:59.620
we've devastated the um natural abundance of the coastal waters and really intensely in the last hundred years
01:04:09.460
is a much more pressing concern than our production of carbon dioxide but it's a concern that it is
01:04:15.460
impossible to get people to attend to now it's not the only environmental concern so you could imagine
01:04:20.820
that there are genuine environmental concerns and then there's this anti-human screeching about
01:04:26.180
overpopulation and the combination of those two forces drives the demand for an apocalyptic narrative
01:04:34.340
and then that feeds into the politician's venal wish to be seen as the saviors for a problem whose
01:04:42.900
progress towards solving can't be measured and that also enables them to proclaim themselves as
01:04:50.100
something like the saviors of the natural world right so so the reason i'm asking you this is because
01:04:56.820
i'm trying to delve into the reasons why the apocalypse narrative surrounding climate
01:05:04.180
got going to begin with now you were there at the onset of the environmental movement say with the
01:05:10.260
with the green peace types and you had your environmental concerns so what was driving your
01:05:15.380
concern at the onset and the concern of your compatriots and why did your paths deviate
01:05:24.100
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so we're we're trying to you were you were trying to get me started on that at the beginning and we
01:06:22.340
got off on too many other things but yeah i'd like to explain why i joined greenpeace and why i left
01:06:27.700
greenpeace i i think i did say that i was doing a phd in ecology and that led me into environmental
01:06:33.780
concerns and there was a hydrogen bombs being detonated by the united states in the illusion islands
01:06:40.180
and there was still atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons by france in french polynesia and that was
01:06:46.340
the first target of greenpeace's campaign it it was greenpeace the peace in in greenpeace is about
01:06:53.060
people it's not about the environment green is about the environment and so we were at the
01:06:59.220
beginning uh we were actually doing humanitarian work rather than an ecological work in some ways
01:07:05.540
i mean we were trying to stop the possibility of an all-out nuclear war by waking people up to the
01:07:11.300
arms race and all of that that was going on at the time and we actually when that was when what 1971
01:07:18.420
was 1971 was the voyage to to amchitka uh with 12 of us on a small fishing boat 85 foot boat across the
01:07:27.300
pacific ocean got arrested by the coast guard made melter cronkite's evening news and had tens of
01:07:32.980
thousands of people marching in the streets and so uh there were lots of other people involved but we
01:07:39.300
were the tip of the spear on that because we got up out and did something and quit our regular lives
01:07:45.380
and went on a three-month uh campaign uh on a on an old fish boat uh and learned a whole lot of stuff
01:07:52.900
and i had a great time and uh and and because we we all had a a motto the the revolution should be a
01:08:01.860
celebration uh not killing people and stuff and so we did that and then the next year we've had such
01:08:10.020
success we had defeated the world's most powerful organization the u.s atomic energy commission
01:08:15.060
because they stopped their next test that they were going to do nixon did that and it was very
01:08:20.660
shortly after this the bomb we were going against they did set that one off i guess they couldn't
01:08:26.740
lose that much face but uh they started they stopped that program so we said well let's head
01:08:32.580
for murray atoll in french polynesia and stop the atmospheric tests and it only took two years to do that
01:08:38.660
in a 26-foot sailboat going from new zealand while the rest of us went over to europe and the first
01:08:45.300
thing we did was we asked for an audience with the pope which he gave us and mentioned our name during
01:08:50.180
his speech from up on his porch there uh and that was pretty thrilling and and then we went to paris
01:08:58.340
and occupied notre dame cathedral just a half a dozen of us handing out pamphlets because
01:09:04.180
even le monde at that time was controlled by the state no one in france knew about the
01:09:08.500
atmospheric nuclear tests in french polynesia it wasn't a subject to be discussed and so
01:09:15.060
we are handing out these pamphlets and then we sat in the pews and as it was time for closure
01:09:20.020
the surete came in and we said we are occupying this church overnight as a demonstration and they
01:09:27.620
said excuse me sir but this is not a church it is a national monument and you will come to jail with
01:09:33.140
us if you don't get out if you're right now so we're we're actually quite smart about these things
01:09:38.500
we didn't want to go to jail and we got out but we made lamont the next morning for the first time
01:09:44.740
there'd been a story about the french atmospheric nuclear testing and then we went to stockholm
01:09:50.500
where the first international meeting on the environment took place uh where uh they were talking
01:09:56.820
about all kinds of environmental things but they sure weren't going to talk about nuclear that's what the
01:10:02.340
the superpowers as they were called in the nuclear weapon states uh made it very clear that war was
01:10:09.460
not an environmental issue and so therefore atmospheric testing wasn't an environmental issue even though
01:10:15.700
it was sending radiation around the whole southern hemisphere for months of the year and uh but but we
01:10:22.420
didn't go to the alternative conference in all of these conferences there's an alternative hippie conference
01:10:27.780
with colorful flags and dancing girls and all that sort of thing we went to the real conference because
01:10:34.740
six months earlier jim bolan and his his wife marie and i jim bolan was one of the leaders of the
01:10:41.620
early greenpeace group he's uh an engineer who worked with buckminster fuller on the on the on the domes
01:10:48.900
up north uh the dew line domes really smart guy and uh i went i went with him as an ecologist and
01:10:57.300
and his wife and we lobbied every southern hemisphere country especially the ones on the pacific
01:11:04.100
about the situation and that we were going to send a boat and all that stuff and then we went to the
01:11:09.380
stockholm conference and convinced the french uh sorry the new zealand delegation who had been the
01:11:15.380
sort of strongest against this all along and uh the new zealand delegation put a motion on the floor
01:11:22.660
against uh atmospheric nuclear testing and won by a landslide so it was a great embarrassment
01:11:29.780
uh to them all and the next year they quit they they did do one more one more year yeah they did but
01:11:37.140
then they went underground and now now they're not doing it at all and then they sank our boat in new
01:11:41.860
zealand with with land with bombs on the on the hull while people were in it one person died uh that
01:11:49.860
was that was that was the only time uh there was a fatality during a greenpeace campaign we were very
01:11:55.780
careful at our boat with our boats because boats can kill people pretty quick if the weather gets bad
01:12:02.740
and uh and i've been i've been uh i grew up on a floating village so there was nothing but boats and uh
01:12:10.340
my dad's logging camp in winter harbor on the north tip of vancouver island which we still have
01:12:16.100
a family compound there we were not in the forestry business anymore but we were for about 100 years
01:12:22.580
and uh so i grew up on a tide flat with a dock and a few houses and uh a couple of rivers and a lot of
01:12:32.340
forests and so i i i was naturally interested in uh in nature uh so i i joined greenpeace we went on these
01:12:42.420
voyages and as time went on we then uh moved into uh more environmental issues uh such as uh toxic waste
01:12:54.260
pollution uh cleaning up the rivers in europe uh north america had already passed passed good clean water and
01:13:02.100
air acts earlier than we were in the late late night late 60s but europe had not and almost every
01:13:10.020
big river the elbe the rhine the river in london the thames uh they were pretty much dead and so we
01:13:18.020
got a smaller boat the river boat we called it about a 50 foot boat and went up these rivers with
01:13:23.300
divers and plugged the pipes of the factories that were putting poison in the rivers underwater where no
01:13:28.820
one could see it going in and we so we plugged the pipes and it backed up into the factories and
01:13:33.620
that made the newspapers happy and uh we won and so that that was good and then uh a bit about the
01:13:43.380
early 80s a change occurred where environmental groups were now describing the human species as the
01:13:50.740
enemies of the earth right the cancer on the planet yeah amps and you know disaster for human for for
01:13:59.620
life and all of that so we kind of the green got dropped sorry the piece got dropped out of the green
01:14:06.180
piece and uh but it's too much like original sin for me to think that humans are the only evil animal
01:14:13.940
on the planet or evil species on the planet uh i just don't go for that i'm not into that and but the
01:14:21.540
but i stayed for a bit even though they were saying these things and how did that happen what like why do
01:14:27.140
you think that happened what what changed we were infiltrated by the political left yeah okay so that was
01:14:36.740
a it was a it was a marxist incursion yeah yeah that that makes perfect sense yeah because that that kind
01:14:43.060
of puts that anti-capitalist spin on it right yeah yeah then what happened jordan is in an
01:14:49.540
international meeting of which i was one of the directors and we had maybe 50 people around the
01:14:54.500
table by this time from all kinds of countries david mctaggart who was our chairman and had become so
01:15:02.340
in political ways uh and i negotiated the founding of greenpeace international with him in a conflict over
01:15:09.540
the use of the word greenpeace uh the san francisco office was trying to take it away from us the
01:15:15.300
founding office and of course the u.s has 20 times the fundraising capacity as canada and so it became
01:15:24.260
a civil war within greenpeace and and i we've got my our lawyer negotiated with me and david that the
01:15:31.540
contract of greenpeace international which he would become chairman and i would be the representative for
01:15:37.780
canada and i represented for u.s and i represented australia germany uh nor uh germany netherlands uk
01:15:46.580
we had nine or ten countries all with offices by this time and good fundraising going on and uh so
01:15:55.060
david was one of these people who is scared of chemicals right chemophobia it's been described as
01:16:02.900
it's sort of like being scared of the climate uh and he decided with advice from others that the
01:16:11.620
greenpeace should start a campaign to ban chlorine worldwide with capital letters and i'm going you guys
01:16:23.300
salt is sodium chloride it is an essential nutrient it is why gandhi marched to the sea to make salt
01:16:29.300
because the brits were taxing the poor people of india for an essential nutrient that they couldn't
01:16:34.340
afford and so come on but not only that adding chlorine to drinking water was the biggest advance
01:16:40.420
in the history of public health and to spas and pools and hot tubs etc and 85 of our pharmaceuticals
01:16:48.980
are based on chlorine chemistry and 25 of them actually have chlorine in them if you look at your
01:16:53.860
cold medicine you'll see a little cl there on a lot of them and so i said we can't do that you guys
01:16:59.460
we cannot ban chlorine worldwide if you have a particular chlorinated compound that you think
01:17:04.420
should be banned from industry or whatever let me know but i'm gone if you do that and i was gone and
01:17:12.660
it was peaceable it was friendly um but i i was gone and i went home to my winter harbor home and with
01:17:20.260
my brother and brother-in-law we started a salmon farm just when norway was taking off with that
01:17:25.380
industry and i ran a salmon farm for 10 years and in the end we couldn't grow them for as cheap as
01:17:32.020
they were being sold because the market is one of those things where the market just flips and suddenly
01:17:37.460
you're in a buyer's market and the early days we were in a seller's market it's a beautiful product
01:17:42.820
and i still eat a lot of salmon in particular the this the steelhead that are being grown in fresh
01:17:50.180
water i that they've got some way of making a rainbow trout get this big uh in fresh water and
01:18:00.900
baker lake is one of the main uh places where they're growing them and so is the columbia river
01:18:06.740
and it's a fantastic product and your comment about the the sea uh did did you read the book
01:18:14.820
the tragedy of the commons by garrett hardy yes do you know that yes yeah it's it it really laid it
01:18:21.380
out very clearly that unless you have and this is why this whole thing about no borders is as completely
01:18:27.780
ridiculous you you have to have jurisdictions if you're going to stop overfishing and over whatever
01:18:34.580
right right right uh and and the internet the international oceans are are are the place
01:18:41.140
where this should be figured out somehow and and actually canada and the united states and japan and
01:18:46.100
russia all have a treaty over crabs and salmon uh that keeps it from being overfished and gives quotas and
01:18:53.700
all that sort of thing so it is being practiced in some places the atlantic side though yeah there's 25
01:18:59.380
countries out there and uh and japan is this you know they don't they don't care who says what they
01:19:06.420
they own the sea and and and they're very i mean and they're on an island and you can sort of i mean
01:19:13.460
it's sort of like england yeah like great britain in that way and as you know the french and the english
01:19:20.260
have been fighting over whose fish they are for a long long time and uh the same thing goes on in other
01:19:25.620
parts of the world too and and my my grandfather was and his three brothers were salmon fishermen out
01:19:32.100
of winter harbor and my dad married his daughter and uh a logger and a fisherman and that's what we
01:19:41.620
were up there that was about all there was there was no road there was no road to winter harbor
01:19:46.740
when i was a child until i was 16 and uh when the road finally came a 75 mile gravel road from port hardy
01:19:54.100
across the north end of vancouver island to the most westerly port winter harbor on the island
01:20:00.420
and and and and on the very near the very tip of it we thought wow now this place is going to boom
01:20:06.980
half the people use the road to get out that's that's human nature for you because they had to stay
01:20:13.780
there all year and many of them never got out at all because they couldn't afford to go to town
01:20:18.180
because getting to town was a two-day trip on two boats a a taxi and and a big steamer going to
01:20:27.540
vancouver the north and south of vancouver island weren't joined together by roads until about the
01:20:32.580
1970s so the north island was a whole other place cool place to grow up so when you started to
01:20:42.180
separate yourself from greenpeace you said that the two things happened to greenpeace if i've got it
01:20:47.220
right one was the incursion of the marxist anti-capitalist types and and the anti-human
01:20:53.620
types as well who were proclaiming that human beings were something approximating a cancer on
01:20:58.660
the face of the planet so it's a real radicalization of the green element then there's the incursion of
01:21:04.500
the marxists and you also said that there was some um what would you say neurotic over concern with
01:21:11.140
chemicals as such right so that's something more like uh it's more like a phobia than a than a reasoned
01:21:19.060
position a new paper just came out that said there are more than 9 000 toxic chemicals in plastic
01:21:27.380
and they didn't name one of them but they did find 9 000 of them in there apparently and that's the
01:21:33.860
kind of stuff that's coming out they've been saying that plastic is toxic forever it is the primary
01:21:39.220
product used in health care for for blood bags for vinyl tubing you can take vinyl is the most
01:21:45.940
interesting plastic because it and it contains chlorine polyvinyl chloride so it's the the only uh
01:21:53.220
one of these polymers the plastics that has chlorine in it and because it has that different chemistry
01:22:01.140
it's able to absorb nearly anything you can put uh anti germ chemicals into it and you can use it as
01:22:10.420
flooring and wall covering in hospitals so that the germs can't grow on the floor of the walls and all the
01:22:17.780
gloves and caps and and all kinds of things are made out of plastic in health care because it is
01:22:24.100
non-toxic that's the whole point of it did i go into the the the marine plastic the the great pacific
01:22:32.580
garbage patch we haven't talked about that have we no no no well so it it's it's um it's easy for
01:22:40.980
the environmental movement to be captured in a variety of ways and that's essentially what seemed to
01:22:47.540
happen in the 1980s so what now how exactly did did you separate yourself from the group and when did
01:22:56.900
you start to become aware that the climate issue was a a tempest in a teapot let's say or even or even
01:23:04.500
something antithetical to the truth and what has been the consequence for you of that discovery
01:23:11.060
well i pretty early on i realized that co2 was one of the most essential elements for life on
01:23:17.380
earth and all of those things i mean and and between co2 and water uh there's nothing else that comes
01:23:25.140
close to the importance of those two molecules that nitrogen would be the next thing you would think
01:23:31.380
about and uh night nitrogen is interesting in that life cannot absorb nitrogen directly it has to go
01:23:40.980
through nitrogen fixing bacteria uh to in that and they they they are in plants mostly in the roots of plants
01:23:50.340
and the nitrogen fixers uh are what makes gives the nitrogen to life we can't we nitrogen is a is a really
01:24:00.180
really really weird element uh that nitrogen no2 nitrogen nitrogen dioxide it would be called uh
01:24:09.700
we can't metabolize it it has to be broken down by microscopic life forms in order for us to be able to live
01:24:18.740
so i see after learning all these things um it's just so clear to me that we we are not evil uh in in the
01:24:32.180
collective sense uh but at the same time we there is this mass confusion issue where people dress up in
01:24:43.380
weird costumes and glue themselves to roads and throw tomato juice at mona lisa and all this ridiculous
01:24:50.900
stuff you know i mean it's absolutely ridiculous but and what they're what they want i'm not quite
01:24:56.420
sure they keep saying they want the climate to get better but it is a fact that we are a tropical species
01:25:03.940
and we would they're also well the environmentalists also tend to be stridently anti-nuclear which is
01:25:10.020
extremely strange if their primary concern is actually carbon dioxide so you know that's a real
01:25:16.980
that's a real conundrum in my estimation because that seems like an obvious way forward if if that's
01:25:22.900
actually your concern i mean you can you can have an intelligent debate about the relative merits of
01:25:27.140
nuclear but if you're convinced that carbon dioxide is going to destroy the planet then nuclear seems a
01:25:32.980
perfectly reasonable alternative but the greens also fulminate actively against nuclear plants and are
01:25:39.300
having them closed down in places like california and and in germany much to the detriment both of
01:25:45.860
the economy and the environment the germans turned to burning lignite because they closed their because
01:25:52.020
they closed their nuclear plants which is so they managed to come out of the the green energy movement
01:25:59.220
producing more carbon dioxide more particulate matter less energy less reliable energy they increase their
01:26:08.900
dependence on the fascist regimes that provide fossil fuels like russia and they quintupled the price of
01:26:18.100
energy so that's nobody's nobody said logic would prevail that's for sure because the real the real
01:26:25.700
problem is is in the beginning the the the political side of the of the movement associated nuclear war and
01:26:35.140
nuclear yeah right right and and they should have nuclear nuclear energy should be in the same category
01:26:42.900
as nuclear medicine not as nuclear war right nuclear yeah nuclear energy is one of the most wonderful
01:26:50.740
things and we've had 30 years of stagnation and even reduction there's over a hundred still over a hundred
01:26:56.660
hundred reactors in north america and not one person has died from nuclear plant in north america
01:27:02.340
three mile island didn't kill anybody fukushima didn't kill anybody it was a comedy of stupidity
01:27:08.980
that yeah fukushima thing that first they built through four reactors eight feet above sea level where
01:27:15.860
they knew there had been tsunamis in the past second right that seems like a bad idea yeah the backup generators
01:27:23.540
for if the the uh plant went down which they had to at the earthquake had to shut all the plants down
01:27:31.460
but they also lost access to the grid the power lines went down so they all they had was their
01:27:37.220
backup diesel generators they started them up everything worked fine for an hour but guess where the
01:27:42.900
diesel generators were in front of the reactors towards the sea on skids they weren't even nailed down
01:27:49.940
they didn't have any houses around them and the gas tanks the diesel tanks were connected by a hose and
01:27:56.660
they were also on their own set of skids and the tsunami came and just took them up in the mountains
01:28:01.780
somewhere and that was the end of that and then one by one they melted down and then even stupider
01:28:11.060
each of those glass towers those are the westinghouse style of reactor the g the g ones are sorry those are
01:28:17.540
the ge reactor no yes that's right the westinghouse one is the one with the dome like three mile island
01:28:23.860
uh and all that is is a protection from the weather the reactors is is down low and in surrounded by a
01:28:31.540
concrete structure so those are just in case there's a leak and they don't want water falling on the
01:28:36.980
reactor or whatever and that that but when the melted a core produces hydrogen by the disassociation of
01:28:46.580
water because the cladding around the fuel is a is a catalyst for water separation so it makes
01:28:55.540
hydrogen which goes up into those towers and as soon as hydrogen gets to eight percent any spark
01:29:01.140
causes a massive explosion and they let that happen three times in a row on three separate days
01:29:07.300
because the prime minister if he in in the united states at least probably canada too if there's an
01:29:13.060
accident at a nuclear plant the head of the plant phones the prime minister or the president and
01:29:19.060
briefs them on what's happening and what he is doing about it in japan you brief them on what's happening
01:29:25.940
and then ask permission if you can do some things and he said no to the breaching of those towers
01:29:33.060
because he didn't want those uh the the radiation that was in them to get out three mile island just
01:29:39.700
if it did let it get out if three mile island would have blown up too if they had not let the
01:29:46.180
hydrogen out and there's so little radiation there's so little radiation it isn't even consequential
01:29:52.420
and this whole fear of radiation is just another fear of an invisible thing that you can't see what
01:29:57.860
it's doing and and and the rules have been made so strict that it's almost doubled the price of
01:30:03.940
building and maintaining nuclear reactors which is absolutely unnecessary whereas with windmills and
01:30:09.300
solar panels they're getting massive subsidies uh and and china's strategy
01:30:16.980
is to build lots of solar panels and windmills for themselves and then export even more than that
01:30:24.180
and tack another 10 percent onto them so theirs are pretty well free and that that's what's going on
01:30:31.060
there this whole thing about electric vehicles i mean i thought it was a free country but not when
01:30:39.300
it comes to co2 so we are allowing carbon dioxide which is actually one of the most important and benign
01:30:46.980
substances in this world absolutely the most essential element for life because we are carbon-based
01:30:53.540
life all life is carbon-based and there is absolutely no evidence that it is having any effect
01:31:00.420
whatsoever on the temperature theoretically it might have a little bit but it doesn't show in the
01:31:06.340
record yeah it has any significant there's obviously many other things that are far more important in in
01:31:14.820
in determining the temperature of the earth and one of them is the position of the tectonic plates
01:31:20.500
these cycles that we've seen the ice ages and such that the oceans are ocean currents on top and
01:31:27.220
diving below at the poles when it reaches four degrees c i mean it's it's all water is also the
01:31:32.740
only liquid that gets lighter as it gets colder that's why it breaks any other liquid the the the
01:31:40.820
the solid would float go to the bottom so if if water acted like any other element any other liquid
01:31:48.900
the the ice would have built up to within about 15 feet of the surface that's all you'd have
01:31:53.860
and then right life may not have evolved in the oceans under those circumstances let's review patrick
01:32:01.620
because we're going to run out of time and i want to just make sure that we've covered everything and
01:32:05.300
give you a chance to make a few final comments as well so we started out by talking about the fact that
01:32:12.420
we have decent records of both climate and atmosphere over about a half a billion year period and that was
01:32:19.060
about the time when multicellular life evolved and we can detect atmospheric change and temperature
01:32:26.500
looking at uh the remnants of life in the in the sedentary strata and using um the the activity of
01:32:35.300
activity of elements that decay in a radioactive and predictable manner and what we see across that
01:32:42.340
large period of time are three things we see a a planet that's often much warmer than it is now
01:32:49.220
up to seven degrees warmer and that's a planet where life is perhaps even more abundant because of the
01:32:55.540
additional warmth we see an atmosphere that almost across that entire span has far more carbon dioxide
01:33:03.940
than it does now and we see very little evidence of a profound relationship between carbon dioxide
01:33:10.500
proportion and temperature and then in the last okay okay so good we've got that we've got that
01:33:18.500
established and now over the last two and a half million years we're in an ice age the pleistocene and
01:33:25.380
that ice age is characterized by periodic movements forward of the ice and recession and there's been about
01:33:33.300
40 of them and at the moment we're actually in a period that's not only cold by immense standards
01:33:41.380
hundreds of millions of years but relatively cold by the pleistocene standard and also characterized by
01:33:47.700
an almost fatal absence of carbon dioxide that so we're close to the point where plants start to
01:33:55.460
get desperate and we're already at the point where if you give them more carbon dioxide they actually grow a
01:34:00.740
lot better and so what we're actually doing by burning fossil fuels is returning to the atmosphere
01:34:08.660
the carbon dioxide that was actually sequestered in the remains of plants and giving the plants an
01:34:14.980
opportunity to flourish which is what they're doing in consequence of carbon dioxide production as we
01:34:21.940
know because an area the size of the united states has greened in the last two decades and our crops are
01:34:27.540
actually more abundantly productive than they have been and then we all of that all of that is true
01:34:34.500
okay and then we also pointed to the fact that in the 1960s and then again in the 1980s an environmental
01:34:41.700
movement that had its utility because human beings should act as stewards for the planet got demented
01:34:49.140
first by the overpopulation advocates who were freaking out about like paul ehrlich about something that just
01:34:55.460
not only was not going to occur but didn't occur which was the widespread famine that was predicted in
01:35:02.820
consequence of the population explosion combined with the incursion of the marxists into the
01:35:08.580
environmental movement and a kind of phobia about industrial activity and nuclear activity that developed in
01:35:14.740
tandem and so here we are now spending untold tens of billions of dollars fighting against an invisible
01:35:23.940
enemy that can't be measured properly that is actually more likely to be in the final analysis our ally
01:35:31.700
there's no doubt whatsoever there's no doubt whatsoever that our emissions of co2 are the
01:35:37.380
salvation of life on earth the next interglacial period the next glacial maximum which is expected to
01:35:44.580
be about 70 000 years from now it would go below 150 if it had continued on the same path it was on
01:35:51.860
i've got the graph made out very clearly that it would it might take two more inter two more glacial
01:35:59.540
maximums for it to get to the earth dying but it would get to the earth dying there was no way
01:36:05.780
that that was going to be stopped after 150 million years of continuous decline i'd like to talk just for
01:36:12.420
a minute about the great pacific garbage patch and and the issue of pacific of plastic in the oceans it's
01:36:19.780
nothing but beneficial in the oceans in the same way that driftwood is is beneficial in the oceans and
01:36:26.420
actually many species of wood have toxic substances in them to prevent them from rotting i like like
01:36:32.660
cedar for example and redwood they have quite a few toxic substances in them and they won't build
01:36:38.500
playgrounds with them anymore in case the children bite the wood or whatever they're supposed to do
01:36:43.300
um but the fact is there's two reasons why driftwood is important in the sea first it becomes a habitat
01:36:50.340
or a feeding ground for many many species of marine life but must especially uh deep sea uh barnacles
01:36:59.140
gooseneck barnacles they just grow all over them and then other things eat those and so there's there's
01:37:04.260
nothing wrong with it whatsoever and they of course they say it turns toxic when it goes in the ocean and i go
01:37:10.340
yeah are you kidding we wrap all our food in plastic to keep it from becoming contaminated
01:37:16.020
and then you say when it goes in the ocean it becomes a toxic hazard like give me a break it
01:37:21.460
doesn't change its chemistry it's one of the most inert things in the world you keep saying it takes
01:37:26.100
two thousand years to break down and then you say it's all turned to microplastic games getting lodged
01:37:30.900
in the livers and kidneys of fish which is another lie because microplastic of course is invisible
01:37:36.900
and no one's ever actually found it but uh but the other wonderful thing is that the pacific garbage
01:37:44.420
patch is fake doesn't exist go on the internet and look for images of the pacific garbage patch
01:37:50.820
and you will see that they are all photoshopped there's not a single one of them that shows an
01:37:55.540
actual patch of plastic twice the size of texas which is what they said but nobody can see it so it might
01:38:02.020
as well be invisible just like polar bears and coral reefs it's in that's that's why i titled my book
01:38:07.220
fake invisible catastrophes and threats of doom because all of the all of these so-called
01:38:14.980
catastrophe stories are based on things that are either invisible or are remote i call it the universal
01:38:24.740
theory of scare stories and there's this this fantasy and physics that there will be a universal
01:38:30.660
theory of everything someday like time all the different right right right right i don't i doubt
01:38:35.700
that that'll happen but i don't think the world is that unified uh to be able to do that but it is true
01:38:43.620
that uh the universal theory of scare stories is a fact that they are they deal with all of them deal
01:38:51.300
with things that are either invisible or remote or in the case of gmos non-existent
01:38:57.060
and then the other thing is is that seabirds benefit from plastic immensely all birds have
01:39:04.740
a gizzard and they don't have teeth so they have to swallow things whole some of them have sharp beaks
01:39:11.700
to tear things apart but they still have to take big gulps and if it's something that can't be easily
01:39:17.300
digested in an acid stomach which they also have they have two stomachs one like ours and another one
01:39:23.460
though where they they shorebirds i mean land birds and shorebirds put pebbles they all their life they
01:39:32.740
swallow pebbles as the grinding agent in their gizzard and when the chicks are on the nest they
01:39:37.940
have to bring petals pebbles to the chicks well albatross and other seabirds there's no pebbles out
01:39:43.940
in the ocean there so they use pumice as their favorite thing but it's not available all the time because
01:39:49.860
it comes from undersea volcanoes that aren't erupting all the time but when they find that
01:39:54.100
they make a cache of it and the other thing they use is bits of wood that are of the appropriate size
01:39:59.460
and shape and today bits of plastic of the appropriate size and shape and there's one picture
01:40:05.700
of a mother albatross giving not feeding that awful man in england who does the bbc scare stories about
01:40:13.540
walruses committing suicide uh because of plastic or something i forget what he said it was it was
01:40:21.460
because a pack of polar bears we're going to eat them and they decided they'd rather fall off a cliff
01:40:26.500
than be eaten alive by polar bears uh but uh but all over the world seabirds are using bits of plastic
01:40:33.940
as a substitute for the other rare things that they have to find for their chicks and then
01:40:39.860
what's his name the tv personality on bbc who does the nature battenborough yes he's a fake
01:40:50.340
and he he says he shows a young woman as assistant of his holding up a big clear plastic bag saying this
01:40:59.220
plastic bag was given to the chick and when the chick died we did an autopsy and we found this plastic bag in
01:41:05.380
the chick it's a total lie no mother albatross or father albatross would give a plastic bag to its
01:41:10.820
chick what they give is little pieces of uniformly sized plastics that go into the gizzard and and
01:41:17.220
do this when they when they give a whole squid to a bird a baby and and themselves the squid gets ground
01:41:25.380
up and the poop gets pooped out but the beak stays in there as a grinding agent so that's one of the
01:41:32.420
ways one of the ways they get a hard object in there and uh it's it's fascinating but the smithsonian
01:41:39.220
goes along with the story that they're feeding plastic to their chicks uh and it and that it's
01:41:45.300
a negative thing it's been studied for 50 years and no one's ever found a negative thing about it
01:41:50.980
it's just a substitute for all the other little hard objects that they've got in their
01:41:56.020
in their in their region and and and and as i say there is there's it's rare to find pebbles
01:42:03.140
on a windswept rocky island and that's just the way it is and they should be telling people that it's
01:42:10.740
a great story that that our little bits of plastic are be are useful and there is no pacific garbage
01:42:17.780
patch one only one picture on the internet that i found i've looked all over for the pacific garbage
01:42:24.100
patch on on the images in the internet and there's one that shows the massive area of debris over the
01:42:31.540
ocean and a diver coming up and underneath it says part of the great pacific garbage patch
01:42:37.860
i studied that photo for a little while and realized there's mountains in the background
01:42:41.860
right in the background there's no mountains in the middle of pacific ocean
01:42:46.020
it's the debris from the tsunami that killed 18 000 people and they're using it to lie about the
01:42:55.380
plastic garbage patch because there there was 20 towns swept into the ocean and and 18 000 people
01:43:03.380
killed the the nuclear plant didn't kill anybody but cnn had a headline in the middle of of that
01:43:10.740
disaster and but it wasn't a disaster from a human life point of view two people did die they were
01:43:17.300
swept away by the tsunami but uh on the headline said nuclear crisis deepens as bodies wash ashore
01:43:27.060
that was right right right right right right and i i've looked it up and it's gone i i guess they
01:43:32.660
decided it wasn't really a very good thing for people to know about because imagine that blaming blaming
01:43:39.540
the the 18 000 bodies on the nuclear disaster so that's the kind of thing we've got going in this
01:43:45.940
world these days and i'm doing everything i can to try to straighten it out and i i think you you
01:43:51.860
saw my presentation i cover a wide number of topics and i do not believe for a minute that these scare
01:43:59.540
stories are true uh like what is it in the gmo that you're that this is a multi-billion dollar
01:44:06.260
anti-gmo campaign where the europeans are refusing to buy crops from africa if they adopt the improved
01:44:14.420
product when in fact every single one of us is genetically modified none of us are identical
01:44:19.940
to our parents that's what sexual reproduction is mixes the genes up and all they're doing
01:44:26.020
is very methodically taking a gene that they know exactly what it does in the species they're
01:44:30.740
taking it from and putting it into one that doesn't have it and that's what golden rice
01:44:35.700
is all about i worked yeah i i campaigned for five years on golden rice i came back into the
01:44:41.220
into the movement in 2013 and my brother and my wife and i and got a team of people from germany and
01:44:48.500
india and and and and and and australia and went to all the greenpeace office locations and
01:44:55.380
demonstrated in front of them and got to 30 million people by the media but it didn't it just then we
01:45:02.820
couldn't do it because they've they've got control of the environmental apparatus in the governments
01:45:08.420
uh in the same way as the this whole uh so-called what do they call it
01:45:16.100
no i forget the name of of what they what the movement what's the name of the movement woke that's
01:45:22.740
right the yeah movement i i i probably want to forget the word because it's so stupid but but
01:45:30.660
they're just they're they're they're every anything but woke and and just don't have lost all
01:45:37.060
scientific and and communicative uh faculties uh they they they're insane uh it's some kind of
01:45:45.380
mental disease as for from from my way of thinking and the climate thing is no different
01:45:51.620
than all of these other social and political things i mean equity yeah sure that's a good word
01:45:57.860
but they're using it like a sledgehammer and because all people aren't the same and and and
01:46:04.980
and good good for that we don't want all people to be the same and and to to say that white people
01:46:12.180
are all racist if that isn't racist i don't know what is how how can anybody think that way well this
01:46:19.540
is the mystery that we're trying to unpack with with podcasts exactly like this yeah yeah well all
01:46:25.540
right sir we should we should stop this um for everybody watching and listening i'm going to
01:46:32.180
continue to talk to dr patrick moore for another half an hour on the daily wire side and i think i'm
01:46:37.300
going to talk to him at least in part about the consequences of putting himself outside the more
01:46:43.460
radical um faction of the environmentalist movement so that should be a fascinating discussion and
01:46:49.380
if you want to join us on the daily wire side and throw some support their way they make these
01:46:55.060
podcasts a consequence of their generosity and uh and have helped me a lot to expand the
01:47:01.700
professionalism of the of the production and to distribute the content to a hypothetically wider
01:47:08.660
audience dr moore thank you very much for talking to me today and for walking through all that
01:47:14.020
complex material for shedding a bit more light on the relationship between um the lengthy history of
01:47:21.780
the world the climate variation that's been part and parcel of that since day one the composition of
01:47:27.460
the atmosphere the relationship between the atmosphere and climate and also the pathologies of
01:47:33.540
what would you say the modern politicization of the environmental movement much appreciated sir
01:47:39.620
and uh for everybody watching and listening thank you for your time and attention the film crew here
01:47:44.580
in jacksonville florida because that's where i am today thank you very much for your help
01:47:49.220
dr moore we'll take five and then we'll reconvene on the daily wire side thanks dr peterson it's been a pleasure