The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 443. The Brutal Reality of the Middle East ｜ Mosab Hassan Yousef

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00:00:57.420 Hello, everybody.

00:01:10.960 I had the opportunity today to talk to Mr. Mossab Hassan Youssef, who's a very complicated person.

00:01:23.080 He spent a lot of his life north of Jerusalem.

00:01:26.220 His father is Sheikh Hassan Youssef, who's a co-founder of Hamas. 0.55

00:01:35.200 He told me that he loved his father, but came to believe that his orientation in the world was deeply misguided.

00:01:43.780 He said the same thing about his culture in general.

00:01:48.180 He had a very brutal childhood.

00:01:50.300 He grew up during a sequence of antifadas, became conversant with bloodshed and the death of children at a very early age in his life.

00:02:02.820 And that isn't the worst of it by a large margin.

00:02:08.340 He started to work for the Israeli intelligence in 1997.

00:02:15.580 He was born in 1978 and was a very reliable source for them in relationship to the doings of Hamas.

00:02:23.700 He involved himself in the prevention of suicide bombings, most particularly.

00:02:31.260 We talked quite broadly about the situation in the Middle East, about the culture that he was raised in,

00:02:40.660 about the transformation of his attitude towards Israel as a state, the Israelis as a people,

00:02:51.120 his understanding of what constituted Palestine, and the general situation in the Middle East.

00:02:58.220 It's a very intense interview, to say the least.

00:03:00.580 I suppose part of what I walked away from it concluding was that, you know,

00:03:07.760 fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and everybody has an opinion about Israel and Gaza,

00:03:14.080 and most of us don't have the wisdom or the experience to do anything but remain silent in the face of what's happening there. 0.99

00:03:25.200 You can watch, listen to Wasab Youssef, and draw your own conclusions about the catastrophe unfolding in the Middle East.

00:03:38.140 His conclusion was that alliance with the Israelis is the best pathway forward,

00:03:44.280 not only for the West, but for the Arab world.

00:03:47.240 There's many people in the Arab world who believe that as well.

00:03:49.820 You know, it's why the Abraham Accords are holding in face, even in the face of Iran's attempts to tear that Accord to shreds. 0.98

00:03:59.500 So, buckle up, it's a wild ride.

00:04:03.740 So, obviously there's a terrible mess in the Middle East, and everybody has an opinion about it, 1.00

00:04:09.580 but everyone's also woefully under, what would you call it?

00:04:16.560 under-informed with regards to the situation there, because it's unbelievably complicated.

00:04:23.800 And so, I think people take sides and make opinions without knowing the first thing about what's actually happening.

00:04:31.400 And so, I want to ask you a bunch of, like, really basic questions,

00:04:35.480 and we can flesh out the landscape for everybody who's watching and listening.

00:04:41.380 So, the first question I'd like to ask you is, what is Hamas, exactly?

00:04:47.540 How would you characterize it?

00:04:49.720 You know, before actually we say, what is Hamas?

00:04:53.080 We need to ask ourselves, what is Palestine?

00:04:56.460 Okay.

00:04:57.080 Because Palestine is non-existential. 1.00

00:05:02.020 And it was never a country.

00:05:04.620 It's not an ethnic group.

00:05:06.560 It's not a religion.

00:05:07.960 It's not a faith.

00:05:08.820 It's a colonial entity created by the British that lived for about 25 years.

00:05:18.100 And Jews, Arabs, Druze, Christians, Zionists, were called Palestinians before the termination of the British Mandate.

00:05:33.460 It was called the British Mandate of Palestine.

00:05:37.160 So, the Mandate itself had the name Palestine.

00:05:43.520 And this is all taking place after World War I.

00:05:46.580 After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

00:05:48.540 Right, right, right.

00:05:49.660 So, the empire collapses.

00:05:52.160 There's questions about how the political boundaries should be drawn.

00:05:57.800 The British establish.

00:06:00.440 Establish.

00:06:01.140 Yeah.

00:06:02.420 This state known as Palestine.

00:06:05.640 And so, what should people think about that exactly?

00:06:09.300 Like, what do you think people should think about the fact that the British were involved?

00:06:12.900 I mean, they won World War I and the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

00:06:16.780 So, there was some mopping up to do.

00:06:18.780 And often, those things are done in a hurry and with less than optimal information, let's say.

00:06:25.220 Yes.

00:06:25.480 Well, the Ottoman Empire continued for about 400 years.

00:06:31.120 During that time, they ethnically cleansed the Jewish people from their land, which explains why the Jewish people were all over the place. 1.00

00:06:38.980 After World War I and all the atrocities and the persecution of the Jewish people, they felt the need to seek a refuge.

00:06:50.200 And the homeland was the best option for the Jewish people.

00:06:54.420 Now, this led to clashes between the colonizer, which was the British Empire, and the Jewish people.

00:07:03.260 The Jewish people fought for their independence and they shed blood in the process. 0.56

00:07:06.980 Also, the Arabs did the same.

00:07:09.900 In 1948, when the United Nations divided the land, given the opportunity to the Jews and the Arabs to build and establish their own states,

00:07:24.540 the Jews declared their independence, but the Arabs declared war against the Jews.

00:07:32.640 And I think this is a very important point to understand.

00:07:37.820 There was no such a thing as Palestine.

00:07:41.780 And when we talk about the British Mandate of Palestine, it was never a state.

00:07:47.140 It was just a transitional period from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to the termination of the British Mandate.

00:07:58.600 And that was less than 28 years.

00:08:01.940 So that termination was in 1948?

00:08:04.080 In 1947.

00:08:05.900 Seven.

00:08:06.700 Okay.

00:08:08.160 Okay.

00:08:08.980 So why, in your estimation, weren't two states established at that time?

00:08:16.520 A state for the Palestinian Arabs and a state for the Jews? 0.74

00:08:20.940 From Muslim point of view, and this is where it gets tricky.

00:08:26.620 This is where nobody wants to talk about the ideological religious dimension of this war.

00:08:32.160 From Islamic point of view, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the surrounding areas does not define boundary.

00:08:43.600 The surrounding areas could be 100 miles, could be 500 miles.

00:08:47.960 It's an Islamic trust that no Muslim leader has the authority to give it away to the non-Muslims.

00:08:56.240 So when the Jewish people returned to their homeland, the Muslims outraged.

00:09:04.900 And that's the most fundamental reason and motive for the Arabs and Muslims to fight against Israel,

00:09:11.640 because they consider that territory as an Islamic land.

00:09:17.200 Right.

00:09:17.600 And that's the mosque that's built on what was the Temple Mount.

00:09:23.300 Exactly.

00:09:23.860 Actually, the history of the mosque is about approximately 1,300 years.

00:09:29.880 But the Jewish temple beneath is a lot older than that.

00:09:34.340 And the Jewish ruins in Judea and Samaria are still erected, actually.

00:09:39.860 And the Jewish people have overwhelming evidence of artifacts and archaeology

00:09:47.800 that support their existence over centuries, millennia, but the Muslims don't. 1.00

00:09:58.000 There is no currency.

00:09:59.220 There is no book.

00:10:00.020 There is no Bible.

00:10:00.860 There is only a building that is 1,300 years old.

00:10:05.360 And this is why, for the Jewish people, don't have a problem in principle to coexist with other ethnic groups.

00:10:14.380 Like even the Zionist movement did not have a problem to have a two-state solution back in the day, 0.97

00:10:22.540 while the Muslims refuse completely having Jewish existence on that land.

00:10:28.880 The same way in Mecca, non-Muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca, even to drive through Mecca. 0.99

00:10:35.260 But the same thing they want the situation to be in Jerusalem.

00:10:39.340 How did you come to these conclusions?

00:10:44.100 I mean, I don't imagine this is how you looked at the world when you were young.

00:10:49.400 So how did you come to these conclusions?

00:10:52.740 I understand that your father, Sheikh Hassan Youssef, was a co-founder of Hamas.

00:10:58.180 So obviously that's complicated, to say the least.

00:11:01.740 So tell me how you looked at things when you were a young man, and then what events in your life started to change your mind?

00:11:14.220 Since I was very young, I had critical thinking.

00:11:16.800 How old are you now?

00:11:17.940 I'm 45 years old.

00:11:18.740 45, okay.

00:11:19.700 So you were born in about 1980?

00:11:22.820 1978.

00:11:24.200 78, yeah.

00:11:25.500 So I had critical thinking from the early beginning of my life.

00:11:30.640 When the mullah told the funeral crowd that the angels of heaven are going to come back and interrogate this deceased in the grave,

00:11:47.880 they're going to bring his soul back, they're going to torture him,

00:11:50.460 and if he does not answer the right question, it's going to be an open hell.

00:11:56.420 I went back to the graveyard and I investigated.

00:11:58.940 I was only 10 years old.

00:12:00.640 And since that point of my life, I did not find death intimidating as much as actually became my drive to seek a higher truth.

00:12:12.640 So tell me about that again.

00:12:14.580 I don't understand that story exactly.

00:12:16.580 What event was that?

00:12:18.840 So basically in the Islamic belief, there is something called the grave torture.

00:12:24.640 This is a device the religious authorities use to control the Muslim population. 0.62

00:12:33.100 When the person dies in the grave, supposedly there is torture and there is interrogation.

00:12:40.460 If the person doesn't know who is his God, who is his prophet, if he fails to answer the questions regarding the religion, they're going to be tortured painfully.

00:12:53.860 So it's like a last judgment sort of thing.

00:12:57.760 Yes, but it happens in the transitional period.

00:13:01.720 Yeah.

00:13:02.600 So because people die, you know, and they've been dying for thousands of years.

00:13:07.880 So when the afterlife hell is going to happen, which is a fundamental thing in Islam, the afterlife, heaven and hell. 0.95

00:13:18.000 So many people die.

00:13:21.080 And is there torture?

00:13:23.900 So they come up with the story that there is grave torture, whether Muhammad said this or not, but it's widely believed in the Islamic faith.

00:13:32.900 And many people were afraid.

00:13:35.200 When I was very young, I asked all my friends to go back with me to the cemetery, and none of them agreed.

00:13:44.500 And when I went back, I was terrified.

00:13:46.180 Eventually, I did not hear any screaming, any torture, and I put my ear to the ground trying to listen.

00:13:57.280 You did this alone?

00:13:58.180 I did this alone because nobody, none of my friends would come back with me to the graveyard.

00:14:03.140 It was terrifying.

00:14:03.860 Was this during the day?

00:14:05.260 It was during the day.

00:14:06.240 During the day.

00:14:06.920 But eventually, I found my peace even at nighttime.

00:14:09.980 And this might sound a bit psychic, but I reached the point that was my challenge to myself, where was I able to lay down in an open grave and look at the stars at midnight?

00:14:26.060 How old were you when you did that?

00:14:28.080 I was maybe 12, 13 years old.

00:14:31.020 What do you think drove you to do that?

00:14:33.160 It's my fear of death.

00:14:34.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:35.260 Because the entire culture—

00:14:36.220 Usually people avoid it, though, rather than confronting it.

00:14:39.100 Well, it sounds strange, but this is when I made peace with death.

00:14:43.640 And this is actually what empowers me, what empowered me throughout my journey.

00:14:48.800 Right.

00:14:49.120 So that's very young when you did that.

00:14:50.760 Yes.

00:14:51.060 How many times did you go visit a grave?

00:14:53.180 So basically, we were just next to the graveyard.

00:14:56.700 And this is not actually the most important thing of observing death and having an early-age encounter with death.

00:15:10.480 That the first Palestinian Intifada started when I was living in that neighborhood.

00:15:15.560 And you were living where exactly?

00:15:20.360 Right next to the cemetery.

00:15:22.080 Okay.

00:15:22.360 So here is the cemetery wall and here is my bed.

00:15:26.720 Okay.

00:15:26.960 And where are you geographically located at that point?

00:15:29.000 That's Ramallah and Al-Bira to the north of Jerusalem.

00:15:34.760 Okay.

00:15:35.340 It's to be the capital of what's the Palestinian apartment.

00:15:39.580 Okay.

00:15:39.960 Basically.

00:15:40.380 Okay.

00:15:40.760 So you're north of Jerusalem.

00:15:42.220 Yes.

00:15:42.520 All right.

00:15:43.020 But this was—we were at the heart of the conflict.

00:15:45.920 And now all the bloodshed, all the youngsters who got shot during the first Palestinian Intifada were buried next door.

00:15:55.220 So I guarantee you that there is no one in that conflict that witnessed firsthand bloodshed as much as they did as a child.

00:16:06.620 Hundreds of people were buried next door.

00:16:10.000 Whether they died naturally or they died because of the conflict or internal conflict between Hamas and Fatah where, you know, they shot each other or stabbed each other.

00:16:20.740 So the entire conflict was displayed in front of my eyes as a child.

00:16:28.220 And I couldn't find a stronger motive.

00:16:32.340 Why are we suffering?

00:16:33.560 Why are we dying?

00:16:34.680 And who's doing this to us? 0.98

00:16:36.060 Of course, the narrative on the Palestinian street that this is Israel, this is the Jewish people killing us. 0.62

00:16:44.680 And as a child, I did not have the power to discern, to see a higher truth.

00:16:49.600 How could I?

00:16:50.780 Same thing with the children now in Gaza.

00:16:53.920 They suffer the consequences of war, but they don't realize or understand how the war originated.

00:17:01.960 So in that situation, I had the trauma of the first Palestinian Intifada and all the memories stay with me. 0.78

00:17:09.900 This is what empowers me to carry on.

00:17:12.300 And that was when about, that would be?

00:17:14.100 1987.

00:17:15.060 87, okay.

00:17:16.160 1987 to 1992, 1993.

00:17:21.680 What's the definition of Antifada?

00:17:24.680 Chaos.

00:17:25.200 People call it uprising, but the very definition, not only of Intifada, of Palestine, very similar definitions.

00:17:33.980 It's chaos.

00:17:34.580 It's disorder.

00:17:35.820 It's anti-establishment.

00:17:38.280 How does it arise?

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00:19:20.500 Simply, Yasser Arafat sitting in Tunisia.

00:19:24.140 This is supposed to be the father of the Palestinian revolution.

00:19:28.380 Yeah, the same Yasser Arafat who died with like $4 billion, that Yasser Arafat?

00:19:33.800 A lot more.

00:19:35.080 Yasser Arafat was an Egyptian Khan artist.

00:19:39.060 He was born in Egypt with an Egyptian accent.

00:19:43.340 It was so obvious to know that he's Egyptian, but everybody was in denial that he's Palestinian.

00:19:48.780 And he's the father of the Palestinian revolution.

00:19:55.160 After they were kicked out of Jordan, of Lebanon, and they end up in Tunisia, some 2,000 miles away,

00:20:02.700 they came up with the idea to engineer the Intifada.

00:20:08.740 They wanted trouble, but from within.

00:20:11.040 They knew that this could be a lot more effective than trying to destroy Israel from outside. 0.87

00:20:17.180 And they sent children to die.

00:20:20.440 This has been their mechanism, their strategy.

00:20:23.220 And who's they?

00:20:24.300 When I say they, all those who are complicit in this continuous crime.

00:20:29.780 All those who sacrifice children for power and for money.

00:20:38.240 It's a fundamental part of that culture.

00:20:40.540 We have to understand this.

00:20:41.760 First was the ideological dimension that I told you about.

00:20:44.800 Then sacrificing children is not something that makes them feel guilty.

00:20:50.040 It's acceptable in that culture.

00:20:53.920 So now, as a student, masked men used to come, and we were just fifth and sixth grade.

00:21:02.400 We were very young.

00:21:03.660 And they would force all students to evacuate the school.

00:21:09.080 They paralyzed the educational system.

00:21:11.540 They paralyzed economy, transportation.

00:21:15.120 And they wanted complete chaos.

00:21:17.700 And until today, I ask myself, if you were fighting against Israel, why would you stop the education and the economy and all other aspects of the Arab life in the West Bank?

00:21:32.560 This is what Intifada means.

00:21:35.720 So instead of going to school, we stayed at home for the first two or three years of the first Palestinian Intifada.

00:21:46.080 We did not go to school.

00:21:48.460 Now, instead, many of the children got engaged in stone throwing.

00:21:55.160 And this became our game.

00:21:56.440 I was part of that game.

00:21:58.260 And many of my friends got shot in the process, throwing stones at the IDF or what we used to call them settlers, just clashing.

00:22:08.660 Of course, many civilians got hurt in the process.

00:22:14.900 So they did not want us to go to schools.

00:22:18.020 And I did not understand why.

00:22:19.880 What about the economy?

00:22:21.080 What about the people who were forced to shut down their stores?

00:22:25.920 And if they did not obey, they became traitors.

00:22:30.240 And in the morning, they came back to their stores and they were burnt down to ashes.

00:22:35.280 So by the means of intimidation, Yasser Arafat sitting in luxury, like Haniyeh today, sitting in luxury in Qatar.

00:22:46.800 And what's in common between all these Khan artists that they were outsiders, living outside while they wanted the children to die on their behalf? 1.00

00:22:57.560 Because what really globalized the Intifada or the Palestinian cause is the children.

00:23:08.680 During the first Palestinian Intifada, when the world saw a child in the face of a modern army, that was outrageous.

00:23:19.740 And everybody sympathized with the cults.

00:23:22.440 So how did the leaders of the Intifada benefit personally from putting children on the front line?

00:23:32.000 What's the money pipeline precisely?

00:23:34.680 I mean, Arafat ended up with an absolute bloody fortune, like an insane fortune.

00:23:38.700 And I know the same thing is happening.

00:23:40.280 But how exactly is that monetized?

00:23:42.980 Is the suffering of children produces an influx of foreign aid that's then pocketed, essentially?

00:23:50.880 Yes, because on one hand, they delegitimize Israel.

00:23:57.140 Israel become a child killer. 0.99

00:24:00.440 Right, right. 0.96

00:24:01.960 Then there is no one in the world that does not sympathize with children dying.

00:24:09.280 Right.

00:24:09.480 So there is no more destructive or powerful weapon in the hands of a corrupt revolution that don't want to fight.

00:24:25.160 They don't have the courage to actually fight in combat.

00:24:28.900 But they prefer that their children would die on their behalf, in the meantime, delegitimize Israel and globalize their cause. 0.90

00:24:40.260 The international community don't know the reality 100% on the ground.

00:24:46.460 They don't understand this game.

00:24:47.720 Even up to now, they see Hamas using children as human shields, which is very obvious.

00:24:53.240 This is what Hamas wanted from this war. 0.74

00:24:57.840 The international community is still in denial.

00:25:02.400 So when children die, this will lead to more chaos.

00:25:07.120 It would lead to war. 0.62

00:25:08.620 It would lead to, today, a global chaos.

00:25:12.380 But how do you deflate the tension?

00:25:14.500 You deflate the tension by going to the middleman, pay him off, and he's going to stop the madness.

00:25:25.360 And this is how they paid off Yasser Arafat, paid off Hamas. 0.79

00:25:30.100 This is the Gaza war today.

00:25:32.380 This is not the first one.

00:25:33.600 This is the fifth one.

00:25:34.860 And every time Hamas started the war, they used human shields.

00:25:38.940 Children died.

00:25:40.380 Hamas exaggerated the numbers, the statistics.

00:25:43.260 They weren't accurate.

00:25:44.880 The international community bent over and submitted to a ceasefire, which basically guaranteed Hamas staying in power.

00:25:53.460 But now, how do you silence Hamas for a while?

00:25:56.320 By giving them lots of money.

00:25:58.620 But this time, Hamas thought they could double down on human shields by putting boogie traps all over the place.

00:26:09.100 Schools, hospitals, mosques.

00:26:10.980 They did not leave any secret location in Gaza without using it as a shooting pad. 0.90

00:26:21.100 Digging hundreds of miles of tunnels beneath one of the most populated areas on earth.

00:26:27.180 How come that wasn't widely known?

00:26:31.520 How come that wasn't widely known in the West?

00:26:33.260 Well, this is obvious.

00:26:34.540 This is obvious.

00:26:35.240 But the world is in denial because it's much easier to condemn Israel.

00:26:39.460 You know, when we have close to two billion Muslims repeating a certain narrative, a false narrative that is baseless, that say Palestine. 0.98

00:26:49.000 And we say the very foundation of this narrative, there is no such a thing as Palestine.

00:26:53.100 It never existed.

00:26:54.580 But everybody suddenly became a pro-Palestine.

00:26:58.220 All the...

00:26:58.800 Well, it fits into the oppressor, oppressed narrative, right?

00:27:02.020 It's the victim narrative.

00:27:04.460 It's a victim mentality.

00:27:05.500 So now, even in the United States, the anti-bankers, those who are in debt or anti-establishment, communists, feminists, socialists, Islamists, are coming in the same room protesting or opposing as pro-Palestine.

00:27:21.120 Well, what is Palestine?

00:27:22.760 Well, you are extreme opposites that you should not be in the same avenue at all.

00:27:30.660 Yeah.

00:27:31.340 Without Israel, you would be conspiring to destroy each other, Islamists and communists. 0.99

00:27:38.000 Clearly.

00:27:38.460 But suddenly now you are pairing.

00:27:40.800 So this phenomenon of Palestine, it just, it's basically, it shows you falsehood versus truth. 0.99

00:27:46.940 Yeah, well, there's something really fundamental to that victim-victimizer narrative, right, that's underlying all of this.

00:27:53.400 And if you can tap into that, then you get all the, well, you certainly get all the left-wing radicals on your side instantly because they're, of course, 100% bought into the victim-victimizer narrative.

00:28:04.340 And it enables them to explain the world and also to be moral because all you have to do is identify with the hypothetical victim.

00:28:11.860 The thing I see happening in Palestine, and you can clear up any misconceptions on my part, is like, I've thought for decades that the Palestinians are sacrificial victims for any outside powers that want to delegitimize Israel.

00:28:26.020 And it doesn't matter how many Palestinians die because they're essentially expendable. 1.00

00:28:31.140 And that seems to me particularly true in relationship to Iran.

00:28:34.100 So it's completely in Iran's fundamental interest to foment this chaos that you described. 1.00

00:28:42.980 It's not in the best interest of the Palestinians in anything like the medium to long run, but it doesn't matter as long as the trouble keeps occurring.

00:28:50.200 It's hard on Israel.

00:28:51.400 It's hard on the United States.

00:28:53.340 It helps Iran maintain its, like, its iron grip. 0.99

00:28:58.240 It obviously seems to be obvious that many people in the Arab world are waking up to that, have woken up to that.

00:29:06.520 I think that's why the Abraham Accords have more or less held through this because there are powerful forces allied against Iran, most fundamentally.

00:29:18.700 But it's in their best interest to keep the misery in Palestine going as long as it possibly can. 1.00

00:29:25.220 And my suspicions are that what happened on October 7th was command directly, please, you know, feel free to disagree with me, but this is how it looks to me, is that the Iranians decided that it was time to stir the pot and they produced this massacre. 0.91

00:29:41.060 And they hope they provoke Israel into exactly the sort of reaction that Israel is having and that Israel would take the threat extraordinarily seriously and move in. 0.79

00:29:51.160 And as their military victory mounted, public opinion would turn against them and it would fragment the Abraham Accords.

00:29:57.900 I suspect that was their plan.

00:29:59.960 What do you think about that?

00:30:01.320 Is that in accordance with your understanding of the situation?

00:30:05.160 Absolutely.

00:30:06.340 You know, this is Iran's attempt to actually rearrange the region. 0.99

00:30:10.540 Right.

00:30:10.780 But I don't want to go too far that also China and Russia have ambition of reshaping the world.

00:30:20.080 Yes, yes.

00:30:20.640 Changing the world order.

00:30:21.840 Yes.

00:30:22.260 But we don't want to go too far.

00:30:25.360 No, because God only knows how that's going to turn out.

00:30:27.580 But it's basically Iran, Russia, China, they made it very clear that they don't want the United States monopoly over power.

00:30:39.620 They want to change the world order.

00:30:40.860 Yeah.

00:30:41.540 Putin understands, he understands completely what it really meant for Hamas to go and ethnically cleanse 20 Jewish communities.

00:30:50.860 And it was not coincidental right after the Ukraine-Russian war, where all the attention was at Europe.

00:31:01.340 And we saw after what happened in Gaza, nobody talked about Ukraine.

00:31:05.580 Right, right, right, right.

00:31:06.680 When you bring the three major religions and make them clash somehow. 0.96

00:31:14.800 Hamas was the trigger.

00:31:16.740 Probably, I doubt that Hamas understands the KGB and Putin's play. 0.65

00:31:25.840 But they are part of it.

00:31:28.180 And Putin is complicit in this situation.

00:31:32.760 So Iran does not act on its own.

00:31:35.420 You know, when they launched, for example, hundreds of ballistic missiles in the 21st century, this is a major attack.

00:31:44.160 Like, I haven't witnessed this in our lifetime, maybe during the Iraqi war, but it was not on this scale.

00:31:52.220 So anyway, yes, these people don't care for the global security.

00:31:57.180 They are irresponsible.

00:31:58.920 And worse than this, that we have experience with the communists, or let's say communist Islamic ideologies, that they reached a dead end. 0.58

00:32:07.880 They failed.

00:32:09.280 The communist Islamic model did not bear fruit.

00:32:14.720 It did not emancipate humanity, did not solve the human problem.

00:32:21.040 And they still insist on replacing capitalism.

00:32:25.580 Yeah.

00:32:25.800 I don't think capitalism is the perfect solution, but it's the better option for sure.

00:32:31.800 So anyway, they're insisting and they want this to keep going.

00:32:36.760 And when we have a weak leadership, with due respect, the Biden administration, it's not showing leadership.

00:32:48.800 And in the Muslim culture, the Arab culture, they don't understand tolerance. 1.00

00:32:54.980 There is no such a thing.

00:32:56.240 Not in the Muslim consciousness. 1.00

00:32:59.500 Maybe forgiveness, but not tolerance.

00:33:01.880 And tolerance is mostly perceived as weakness.

00:33:05.200 And I speak as someone who grew up in that culture.

00:33:09.620 So every time, you know, when Trump was there, for example, everybody was terrified of him.

00:33:15.440 Impredictable.

00:33:16.660 And you don't know what he's going to do next.

00:33:18.840 So he moved the American embassy to Jerusalem.

00:33:23.480 Nobody dared even to challenge him.

00:33:25.340 Yeah, right.

00:33:26.500 Yes.

00:33:26.920 Not even riots or any of that.

00:33:28.420 Right, yeah.

00:33:29.120 But now, the Obama administration, then now the Biden administration, the Americans and the American power is not respected.

00:33:43.540 They've enabled Iran. 0.98

00:33:45.180 Yes.

00:33:45.560 Yeah, one of the things that appalled me when Biden took office is that I'd been following the Abraham Accords quite closely because I thought they were, well, really quite the miracle.

00:33:55.640 And I knew from talking to people who were involved firsthand that the Saudis were very interested in having that process continue and very inclined to sign on.

00:34:06.800 And my sense with the Biden administration was that that got scuttled because the Democrats were completely unwilling to give Trump any credit for anything he did during his administration.

00:34:17.620 And I thought that was absolutely unforgivable because it would have been – and the Democrats could have pulled this off.

00:34:24.260 They could have brought Saudi Arabia into the Abraham Accords and they squandered the opportunity.

00:34:30.900 And that's a complete catastrophe as far as I'm concerned, an unforgivable catastrophe.

00:34:35.480 And, you know, here we are now as a consequence of it, at least in part.

00:34:39.160 Let's go back to when you were 13.

00:34:41.200 I want to pick up the thread of that story.

00:34:42.900 Okay, so you're seeing all this catastrophe, this chaos that you described that redounds to the benefit of the con men who are running the show, for example, and that is there to delegitimize Israel and the United States and to redound to the credit, let's say, of the Iranians operating in the background. 0.95

00:35:01.960 You're seeing all the consequences of this firsthand.

00:35:04.340 And you decide that for a variety of complicated reasons, you decide that you're going to face your fear of death.

00:35:12.720 You have this graveyard next.

00:35:14.900 You're going there to investigate and to experiment.

00:35:19.320 What was the consequence of doing that for you?

00:35:21.740 And then how does that tie in with your transformation of worldview over time?

00:35:27.460 When I was very young, and this is stuff I don't like to talk about because I choose not to be a victim.

00:35:34.440 And also, I don't like to become vulnerable because people think that you are weak.

00:35:41.880 Stuff that I don't have to talk about, but I think there is no way around it.

00:35:47.320 Because many people ask, you know, what motivates you and where are you coming from? 0.54

00:35:52.880 When I was very, very young, I was raped. 0.97

00:35:57.460 In a culture, in a culture that would kill the rapist, but also they would kill the rape victim. 0.98

00:36:12.540 So I never told anybody about that story. 0.93

00:36:16.980 I never got any support.

00:36:18.900 And how old were you?

00:36:19.900 I was five or six years old when that happened.

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00:37:29.560 Now, I had to heal on my own, and it was a hill of a journey in a society that did not have mercy, that they preferred that I would disappear, so I don't bring shame on them.

00:37:46.860 Right.

00:37:47.180 And I witnessed so many women being killed after being raped, that the father would prefer to kill his daughter to bury the shame with her, not to have to face the society that his daughter was raped. 0.96

00:38:06.880 What type of mentality is this? 0.97

00:38:08.660 What type of religion is this?

00:38:09.980 And this is not just a culture.

00:38:12.320 Okay.

00:38:12.780 Does it reflect on his inability to protect her?

00:38:15.580 Is that the source of the shame?

00:38:16.820 It's his status.

00:38:18.180 It's his status.

00:38:19.020 It's his, the father of, he could not protect his daughter.

00:38:22.420 Yeah.

00:38:23.380 Yeah.

00:38:24.020 And now maybe the daughter is pregnant. 0.51

00:38:27.160 This was before abortion, et cetera. 0.90

00:38:29.220 Okay, the daughter is pregnant. 0.99

00:38:31.940 What is he going to do with the child? 1.00

00:38:33.800 No, he prefers to kill the daughter. 0.99

00:38:35.360 He does not want to go even to the degree that his grandchild is a result of a rape incident. 0.96

00:38:46.820 So, and from the seventh century, in Islam, or in Arabia, they killed infants.

00:38:57.140 So, when I say sacrificing children, this is not coincidental.

00:39:04.500 It's rooted in that culture.

00:39:06.120 So, for me, it was unjust that I had to actually carry the burden instead of getting the support from the family, from the society, like at least to come and say, who did it?

00:39:21.880 Today, I'm 45 years old.

00:39:24.260 I'm a very strong man.

00:39:25.660 I can confront the whole universe if necessary.

00:39:29.380 And up to now, none of them asked the question, who did it? 0.62

00:39:32.440 And by the way, I had the power to kill the predator down the road.

00:39:39.720 He's probably living in a nightmare.

00:39:41.800 Why I didn't actually harm him?

00:39:43.220 Because later on, I got lots of power, even when I was back in the territory.

00:39:47.360 But I chose not to.

00:39:48.980 Instead of going after the rapist, I went after the belief system.

00:39:54.300 And this is where I need to create the change.

00:39:59.200 I see.

00:40:00.180 So, what's so-called Islam?

00:40:04.440 And I know this is a very sensitive topic.

00:40:08.080 If the belief system, if Allah thinks that the rapist and the raped are equal, and they deserve the same punishment, then this God does not have authority over my life.

00:40:20.220 And this is where I start questioning the entire belief system.

00:40:23.240 And I rebelled.

00:40:24.220 How come you're still alive? 0.89

00:40:27.040 Well, they tried to kill me, and they're still trying to kill me. 0.86

00:40:29.600 I bet. 0.93

00:40:30.480 They have been trying to assassinate me, politically at least, all these progressives and Muslim brotherhood wearing all type of masks in the United States. 1.00

00:40:41.020 They have been trying to discredit me so I cannot even speak for myself, to defend myself.

00:40:45.740 Because I'm speaking on behalf of all the wounded children in the region.

00:40:49.560 And I know their game.

00:40:50.660 And I know they don't care for the children.

00:40:53.240 Instead, my father sacrificed me.

00:40:57.060 He said, this is not my son, and I don't know him if he wants to kill him.

00:40:59.900 His blood is allowed.

00:41:01.100 So when you have to choose between a hypothetical God that does not even exist and the future of children or your own child, well, we have a fundamental problem here.

00:41:14.260 Then you come posing to tell the rest of the universe that Islam is a religion of peace.

00:41:19.960 Well, no.

00:41:20.580 We have a big problem here.

00:41:21.840 We have to talk about it.

00:41:22.800 And when I start talking about this, I got canceled.

00:41:26.440 Yeah, Pat, you got canceled.

00:41:30.140 So I, and now I'm labeled Islamophobe.

00:41:33.960 What Islamophobe?

00:41:35.320 I'm confronting this thing and I'm willing to die in its pursuit because there is no other way.

00:41:42.060 Only the truth can set people free.

00:41:44.220 Only the truth.

00:41:44.900 The same thing with Palestine. 0.81

00:41:47.840 It totally depends on the destruction of Israel in order for us to see what Palestine is.

00:41:55.260 And the manifestation of Palestine requires the destruction of Israel. 0.97

00:42:01.140 Same thing with the Islamic State. 0.61

00:42:03.440 It requires the destruction of civilization.

00:42:06.240 All civilizations combine in order to achieve this global state called Khilafah. 0.64

00:42:15.220 But we don't know how it is going to look like then.

00:42:19.320 So we have first to die. 0.71

00:42:21.880 For them to live, then they can prove themselves. 0.83

00:42:26.100 It's, if there is anything that defines madness, this is madness.

00:42:34.060 So you were hurt very badly when you were very young.

00:42:37.900 And then you lived through the Antifada and you were right beside the graveyard.

00:42:43.960 And you decided that you're going to confront death relatively directly and overcome your fear of it.

00:42:50.420 You were doing some religious experimentation really at the same time then.

00:42:54.360 You said that you were testing out this hypothesis that there was torture in the grave.

00:42:59.160 You did that alone because your friends wouldn't come along with you, which is like hardly surprising.

00:43:04.720 So you said that you also decided with regards to being raped that the proper response to that wasn't to go after the person specifically who was responsible,

00:43:16.860 but to go after something deeper than that, which was the belief system that gave rise to this problem.

00:43:24.060 So, all right, so now you're 13.

00:43:27.160 Are these ideas already in your imagination?

00:43:29.640 Like, when do you start sorting?

00:43:31.720 When was it that you started sorting this out?

00:43:35.720 Some of them were in the form of feelings, just gut feeling.

00:43:39.860 I did not have the meaning to express them, but I knew them.

00:43:46.060 It was not coincidental that I could not tell my own father about this situation, but later on, I knew that my punishment is death.

00:43:56.420 So, today I have the power to express myself.

00:44:00.260 I didn't know everything at that time, but believe it or not, I felt that this society cannot be trusted.

00:44:11.880 And this is why today when I stand and I tell the world, anyone who identifies as a Muslim, I consider them as a threat. 1.00

00:44:23.300 I don't trust them.

00:44:24.860 And people say, well, you cannot generalize.

00:44:26.480 This is like insane what you say.

00:44:27.900 No, it's not insane.

00:44:30.580 Because if their belief system has sentenced me to death many times for crimes that I haven't committed,

00:44:40.960 then you pause as a Muslim.

00:44:43.200 You carry that identity.

00:44:44.860 How am I supposed to feel towards you?

00:44:47.640 It's like coming to a Jewish refugee during the Nazi era and say, I am a Nazi.

00:44:52.880 Come with me.

00:44:53.420 I'm not going to hurt you.

00:44:54.480 No, you're taking the identity of a Nazi regime.

00:44:59.560 And whether you are the bad cop or the good cop, it doesn't matter.

00:45:04.420 You are serving the same establishment.

00:45:06.500 And I'm tired of this moderate versus extremist.

00:45:09.920 Every individual has the responsibility to know what they are identifying with.

00:45:17.480 My individuality is above all religions and above all gods.

00:45:21.240 I don't accept to just take a label for myself, not knowing what I'm getting myself involved into.

00:45:28.020 Because only my parents pushed that religious identity on me.

00:45:32.520 And if I am at that level of consciousness, then how can I trust you with anything?

00:45:37.780 I cannot trust you with my woman.

00:45:39.340 I cannot trust you with my property.

00:45:41.000 I cannot trust you with my money.

00:45:42.440 I cannot trust you being even close to me.

00:45:46.240 Because you don't qualify.

00:45:47.840 You don't know your individuality.

00:45:50.820 You are unpredictable.

00:45:52.440 You can be friendly now.

00:45:54.380 But five minutes later, you can be a part of a crowd.

00:45:57.480 And you are going to show me your tasks.

00:45:59.620 You might bite me.

00:46:01.160 So then I have a problem.

00:46:02.400 What do you make of moves on the part of countries like the UAE and the other countries that are involved in the Abraham Accords, let's say?

00:46:13.360 Because it looks to me like that's a pathway forward much different than the pathway laid out in Iran that holds out the possibility of something like a rapprochement between, let's say, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

00:46:29.220 Do you see any hope on that side of things?

00:46:32.080 Yes.

00:46:32.400 First, with the statement that I made, this is my fundamental stand.

00:46:37.140 I don't compromise this truth.

00:46:39.500 And I don't respect anyone who identifies themselves as a Muslim in principle. 1.00

00:46:44.680 Because why?

00:46:46.400 But this is my fundamental stand because I aim to reform a generation.

00:46:52.480 I need people to get out of their cave of delusion and think for themselves.

00:46:57.100 Like, for example, I don't have a problem with the Sufis.

00:46:59.200 And I don't have a problem, actually, with Muslims who don't pose as Muslims. 1.00

00:47:05.120 They don't have to bring their religious identity as they are entitled to something.

00:47:13.520 They want to intimidate me or maybe tempt me with something.

00:47:16.980 Sincere, devotional people don't need a religious identity at all.

00:47:22.820 And those exist in the Arab and the Muslim world.

00:47:26.080 But also hypocrisy is the other side of the coin.

00:47:32.120 I just did a seminar on the Gospels with some scholars, the same group that I walked through the story of Exodus with.

00:47:40.720 You know, we spent 20 hours going through the Gospel accounts. 0.98

00:47:44.720 And the biggest enemies of Christ are the religious hypocrites. 0.98

00:47:49.080 That's the Pharisees in that story. 0.98

00:47:51.260 And there are people who proclaim allegiance to God while acting in their own service, right?

00:47:57.260 The deepest of all possible sins, right?

00:47:59.260 To invert the moral order so that you serve yourself while claiming to serve what's properly put in the highest place, right? 0.97

00:48:09.640 There's no shortage of religious hypocrisy.

00:48:11.920 And I think it is the worst of all possible sins because it inverts the cosmic order, right? 0.77

00:48:18.000 It makes everything good subservient to what it is that you want. 0.94

00:48:23.220 And that's a very, I mean, that can be, obviously, that's a problem faced by any religious system because any religious system can become overrun with hypocrites.

00:48:35.920 But that's really what you're pointing to is the distinction between hypocrisy and it says in the Gospels that you shouldn't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.

00:48:46.480 And what that really means is that it's something like practice your devotion in solitude and secrecy and don't trumpet it.

00:48:55.320 Don't make a show of it.

00:48:56.420 But the activists in the West are exactly the same sort of people, right?

00:49:03.100 They're wearing their morality on a stick.

00:49:05.680 Look how good I am because I'm on the right side.

00:49:08.400 It has nothing to do with them organizing their lives in any sense of the word.

00:49:12.000 All they have to do is proclaim allegiance to the victim and they're on the top of the moral order.

00:49:17.060 Regardless of who they have to crawl in bed with to manage that particular stunt, which is what we're seeing everywhere in the West at the moment, after October 7th, obviously.

00:49:27.960 And all this moral decay, of course, there isn't coming.

00:49:30.540 It's a human condition.

00:49:32.360 You know, it's this why we're saying if we want to see the new man, if we want to integrate to a higher state of consciousness, then we need to drop this political correctness.

00:49:44.560 And what's the difference?

00:49:45.720 It's the same thing.

00:49:46.620 It's the same game.

00:49:47.860 Yeah.

00:49:48.320 You know, I was born in that belief.

00:49:49.960 That's why they end up on the same side.

00:49:52.940 And I was born in that belief, like at least when it comes to me.

00:49:57.080 I don't have the right to criticize my own belief system.

00:50:01.080 And if I do, it becomes a hateful speech.

00:50:06.600 Who says this?

00:50:09.080 This is my birthright to rebel and to criticize.

00:50:13.200 This is what makes us superior to animals, especially that there is no such a thing as Islam. 1.00

00:50:19.840 We have so many denominations.

00:50:21.740 So basically, at least what we can do now, we can push them back.

00:50:27.480 They have to back off.

00:50:29.620 And we probably can apply political pressure where, you know, they will have to hold extremists accountable. 0.58

00:50:42.600 But after October 7th, what I saw, and this is why I went outrageous, and I really told the Arab world, listen, if it comes down to choose between the entire Muslim population and a cow, I choose a cow. 1.00

00:50:55.260 Like at least the cow is very peaceful.

00:50:57.700 It gives us milk.

00:50:58.840 It gives us leather.

00:51:00.580 It gives us meat.

00:51:01.800 It is very peaceful.

00:51:02.820 It's harmless.

00:51:03.520 But you, what's your contribution?

00:51:07.560 And now we have this global crisis where a minority, a religious minority, being persecuted, suffering ethnic cleansing on October 7th.

00:51:19.720 And instead of siding with truth to say that this does not represent us as a Muslim world, instead they have been weaponizing their religious identity against this religious minority that is most creative with the greatest contribution to life. 0.80

00:51:38.000 And I don't see, like, this is the blueprint of our society.

00:51:41.500 I mean, I cannot imagine the Western civilization or our civilization without the Jews. 1.00

00:51:47.140 So how do you account for the fact that the Abraham Accords haven't collapsed? 0.85

00:51:51.800 I mean, they haven't, right?

00:51:53.000 They've held.

00:51:54.500 And that's, again, that seems to me to be a very positive thing.

00:51:57.340 I mean, I think you could make a case that perhaps the people who are on the Abraham Accords side of the world could have been more forthright in their defense of Israel after October 7th.

00:52:07.840 But at least the whole bloody process hasn't collapsed.

00:52:10.060 I mean, that's what Iran was hoping for. 0.99

00:52:12.140 It's not collapsed.

00:52:12.620 It's not collapsed.

00:52:13.600 And I think it is going to be rejuvenated after this war because it's in the interest of everybody.

00:52:18.780 Yes.

00:52:19.300 And now the thing is, Israel is showing everyone that violence is dead end. 0.64

00:52:24.620 So what I am hoping for that I don't know if we have to go to the point where we have to deal with Iran and Hezbollah and this war could be a lot longer than people expecting. 0.90

00:52:35.100 But eventually, the Middle East is going to reach the point. 0.96

00:52:39.260 Especially Muslims and Arabs, that violence is a dead end. 1.00

00:52:43.900 We are not going to tolerate violence. 0.95

00:52:46.940 You want to worship the stone, worship it as much as you want, but don't throw it at me.

00:52:51.960 Don't dare to throw it at me because I will retaliate.

00:52:55.740 And this was the final result, the use of force.

00:53:03.500 After exhausting every possibility with Islamists, with the Muslim Brotherhood especially, which is Hamas, there is no difference. 0.99

00:53:10.260 Now that they learned the lesson, they can stay in their delusion.

00:53:16.500 It's not my responsibility to go and try to pull them out of their cave.

00:53:21.140 But if they choose to act on it and manifest their delusion in the form of violence, in the form of terrorism, then we have very tough warriors and we are going to fight.

00:53:32.860 I personally am fighting for my very existence.

00:53:35.900 I'm not an expert on the topic.

00:53:37.740 They want me to cease to exist.

00:53:41.280 Hence, my relationship and my understanding of Israel.

00:53:44.540 Because Israel didn't do anything wrong to the Arabs and to the Jews except, you know, just being who they are. 0.98

00:53:51.200 And they want them to cease to exist.

00:53:54.080 This is how I feel, why I feel with Israel. 0.97

00:53:56.920 There is no difference.

00:53:58.400 We are in the same situation where I didn't commit a crime against my people.

00:54:04.080 I didn't commit a crime against anyone.

00:54:06.180 Even later on, when I collaborated with Israel in the intelligence service, my main goal was to just stop the madness, stop suicide bombers from targeting civilians indiscriminately.

00:54:19.520 This was my goal.

00:54:21.440 This was my moral compass.

00:54:23.060 I didn't do it because of a national motivation.

00:54:26.460 But I still became a traitor.

00:54:33.360 I said, why, why, why, why you label me as a traitor?

00:54:36.180 Why you condemn me to death?

00:54:37.600 I did not only save Jewish life.

00:54:39.720 I saved also Palestinian lives.

00:54:41.600 I saved my father's life and other Hamas leaders' lives. 1.00

00:54:45.080 Believe it or not, for 10 years, I don't have blood on my hands.

00:54:47.880 I did not take part of killing any human being.

00:54:52.020 Throughout 10 years of war and chaos and bloodshed, working around the clock to save people from their madness, trying to just juggle with the whole situation.

00:55:04.700 I was very young.

00:55:06.200 And I almost got killed so many times in the process.

00:55:09.760 Sitting in a room full of explosives with potential suicide bombers, 19 years old, discussing who's going to die first.

00:55:18.500 That kind of situation.

00:55:20.320 And I am trying, how can I stop this kid from killing so many other people?

00:55:28.000 This is not about treason.

00:55:31.020 It's about pro-life.

00:55:32.480 This is what we were doing. 0.99

00:55:34.240 Yet, a society that prays suicide bombing attacks, prays death, because blinded with hatred towards the Jewish people. 0.96

00:55:44.340 That, by the way, they don't know nothing about the Jewish history. 0.94

00:55:46.900 They don't know nothing about the Jewish suffering.

00:55:49.780 They are not willing to study about the Holocaust.

00:55:52.640 Instead, they're teaching people the wrong and the false narrative.

00:55:57.180 And this is how they guarantee to stay in this victimhood for eternity.

00:56:02.400 So, basically, it's so complicated, you know, in my matrix that I learned a lot about myself.

00:56:12.180 And I fought the good fight.

00:56:13.680 But right now, I reached the point that I don't need to explain to anybody anything.

00:56:19.460 There is a volcano inside me that is about to erupt.

00:56:22.540 And I don't care what people are going to say.

00:56:24.640 Whether they're going to say mad, crazy, out of control, they can say whatever they want. 0.98

00:56:30.460 We have to eradicate Hamas. 1.00

00:56:32.200 We have to finish Islamists. 1.00

00:56:34.120 There is no room for savages in our civilization.

00:56:37.920 And anyone who pose a threat against innocent civilians don't have equal rights.

00:56:43.220 It's as simple as that.

00:56:45.380 And all the voices coming from the United States say, hey, Palestinians, give the Palestinians equal rights.

00:56:51.460 I say, no.

00:56:52.780 First, I want to see equal responsibility.

00:56:56.520 Show me equal responsibility and we can discuss equal rights.

00:56:59.880 But you don't compare savages to decent civilians or to decent civilized people who know their responsibility towards themselves and towards their neighbor.

00:57:10.800 And compare, say, hey, Israel is democracy. 0.50

00:57:13.960 Why you treat the Palestinians in such manner?

00:57:17.940 Well, there is no such a thing as Palestine to begin with.

00:57:20.860 And the entire social structure needs to be studied before we decide what Palestine is.

00:57:28.380 Because it's not a nation.

00:57:30.120 Just political gangs fighting against each other, fighting in Israel as a common enemy.

00:57:37.000 And when Israel is not there, they will kill each other. 0.99

00:57:39.660 I promise you that.

00:57:42.720 So what happens to you at 13?

00:57:46.880 Walk me through your life from 13 onward to the point where you start working with the Israelis.

00:57:52.340 So just walk me through that whole biography.

00:57:56.340 So that was the first person in the Intifada.

00:58:02.460 Yeah.

00:58:02.620 But it looks like I developed so many disorders because of the traumas of childhood.

00:58:08.580 And instead, a society that can understand a child and what's going on, what they did, they beat me up.

00:58:16.640 Everybody.

00:58:17.040 From the Hamas leaders, to my parents, to the teachers at school, to the principal, to the other kids in the streets.

00:58:26.260 Everywhere I went.

00:58:27.320 And at some point, I got beaten up by a mob.

00:58:30.360 In fact, in my life, I got beaten up by a mob multiple times to the point where I went unconscious.

00:58:36.200 And why were you a target of that sort of island?

00:58:39.600 I was just a troublemaker.

00:58:41.580 And I'm still a troublemaker.

00:58:43.900 It's one of my best qualities.

00:58:46.260 So basically, they wanted me to behave accordingly.

00:58:51.200 According to the religious laws and the cultural laws.

00:58:56.100 But I didn't know I was behaving that way.

00:58:58.460 I just wanted to rebel.

00:58:59.600 There was lots of anger inside me.

00:59:01.820 And there is still lots of anger inside me.

00:59:03.280 So what were you doing that was causing trouble?

00:59:05.940 I broke the rules.

00:59:07.420 At the mosque, I played.

00:59:09.620 I just was a very playful kid.

00:59:13.300 And they wanted me to just not do anything.

00:59:16.320 If I ran in the mosque, once the imam of the mosque lift me up above his head and throw me flat on my back where I lost my breath.

00:59:26.660 And in other occasions, I was whipped by a Hamas leader with the electric cable to the point I lost conscious.

00:59:38.600 How old were you?

00:59:39.300 Between the 10 and 18 years old, this is like where the brutality of the society took place.

00:59:48.700 So if I was only a rape victim when I was very young, I would say, okay, you know, that was one event.

00:59:54.360 But come on.

00:59:55.140 You know, everybody was conspiring against me.

00:59:58.040 And I still wonder why so many forces wanted me dead.

01:00:02.020 And they still don't have compassion to just look and say, it's like, wow, this guy went through a lot.

01:00:07.880 Like maybe, you know, whatever he's saying, he has the right at least to express it.

01:00:13.240 But they want to strip me even the right to talk about it.

01:00:18.480 So it's a brutal culture.

01:00:23.300 When some say what happened on October 7 was barbaric, it's not only Hamas.

01:00:29.760 There is a majority in the Gaza society that is complicit in this crime. 0.71

01:00:35.080 In fact, for those who watched the footage of the October 7 crimes, it was not only Hamas that committed a crime. 0.51

01:00:45.660 Most of the crimes, especially raping and kidnapping, were committed by guns and civilians.

01:00:50.460 And I know now this is considered, or somebody can discredit me because I'm generalizing.

01:00:57.080 But I say the vast majority of that society don't have mercy when it comes to children.

01:01:01.100 And no woman can walk freely and feel safe at midnight anywhere in the Palestinian territories.

01:01:08.460 This is why a father is willing to kill his daughter if she would leave the house without a companion. 0.74

01:01:16.140 Because if she leaves the house without a companion, there's a big chance that she's going to be raped on the streets. 1.00

01:01:21.700 And why are you taking such a risk?

01:01:23.220 They would beat them up if they leave the house alone. 0.67

01:01:27.420 So it's a troubled society.

01:01:29.540 It's a death culture. 0.87

01:01:31.640 And I don't mean to label them as savages.

01:01:34.980 And I don't want to say this because it's so hard.

01:01:37.980 It's my biological family.

01:01:40.080 This is where I came from.

01:01:41.280 And I love the people.

01:01:42.560 I want the people to integrate.

01:01:44.900 But they want me dead still.

01:01:48.580 And as long as they are not able to make peace with their own child,

01:01:54.000 I don't know how they can make peace with other nations, with other people, with others.

01:01:59.580 What was your relationship with your father like?

01:02:02.420 I loved my father.

01:02:04.920 I loved him.

01:02:05.860 He was my God.

01:02:07.500 Even though he beat me up so many times, I loved him.

01:02:11.400 And I loved my mother as well.

01:02:13.600 I loved my people.

01:02:14.700 I did not hate them.

01:02:15.580 I was just a troublemaker.

01:02:16.560 But it's not out of hatred.

01:02:18.740 Even the ones who hurt me the most, I was able to let go.

01:02:22.020 Even my rapists or that guy I told you he beat me up or the teacher.

01:02:26.740 I did not go after them.

01:02:29.140 And it was not coincidental that existence gave me so much power during the second Palestinian Intifada,

01:02:36.020 which I had the capacity to pretty much give the permission to an army to kill somebody.

01:02:48.420 And I refused, especially when they were my opponents.

01:02:51.500 So how did you come to be in that position?

01:02:55.500 So you're a young man, 13 to 18.

01:02:59.980 What's happening in your life and where do you end up?

01:03:02.820 So basically at the age of 18, the gap between me and that society was really wide.

01:03:09.980 And I questioned many things about the culture, who we are, and why people are just so cruel.

01:03:21.580 And I wanted to take revenge.

01:03:23.720 But I thought I'd take revenge from Israel. 1.00

01:03:27.420 And somehow I wanted to go just suicidal. 0.98

01:03:30.400 Because it was very hard, you know, to take a gun and go shoot my people.

01:03:34.080 So I thought, okay, how about I go against the occupiers, our enemies. 0.99

01:03:38.400 And I decided that I'm going to buy a purchase gun and shoot some Israelis and just go as a shaheed. 1.00

01:03:45.180 That was my only escape. 0.98

01:03:47.680 And that was only at the age of 18.

01:03:49.920 So I got the guns.

01:03:52.140 And before I did anything, thankfully, I was arrested by the Israeli intelligence.

01:03:59.620 During the interrogation, they offered me to work for them.

01:04:04.400 And I thought it was an opportunity to actually say yes and destroy them from with them.

01:04:13.680 On one hand, I would be released from prison.

01:04:15.860 And I would have a lot more information, a lot more power, and I can't do something against them.

01:04:22.680 Because there was no way for any intelligence service to buy me.

01:04:27.220 Let's say by money or by intimidation or any of that.

01:04:31.620 So that was actually my real motive.

01:04:33.420 And it's described in detail in my books.

01:04:37.640 But instead of releasing me, they said, you must go to prison.

01:04:45.620 If we release you, people will get suspicious and you will get killed.

01:04:52.280 So I ended up going to prison for 16 months.

01:04:55.400 This was my first imprisonment.

01:04:58.640 In prison.

01:04:59.220 I told Hamas about this encounter with the Israeli intelligence.

01:05:05.040 In prison.

01:05:05.680 Yeah, prison.

01:05:06.220 I told them the truth.

01:05:07.540 And this is my plan.

01:05:09.080 But they said, is this everything?

01:05:10.800 I said, this is everything.

01:05:11.700 They said, no, you write more.

01:05:12.840 So there is nothing else.

01:05:14.560 So who's your handler?

01:05:15.920 What's your mission?

01:05:16.780 So they did not give me any mission.

01:05:18.800 Hamas became suspicious of me.

01:05:21.860 Instead of helping me, I became a suspect.

01:05:25.600 But my father is one of the founders of the movement.

01:05:29.220 So they could not torture me.

01:05:31.240 But in the meantime, they were torturing hundreds of other prisoners for suspicion of collaborating with Israel.

01:05:39.480 Dozens were killed during that time and hundreds were tortured.

01:05:43.100 They destroyed their lives completely.

01:05:44.920 And they were brutal.

01:05:46.940 Some of this was taking place in the prison you were in?

01:05:49.240 In prison.

01:05:49.760 All of it.

01:05:50.240 All of it.

01:05:50.720 I see.

01:05:50.980 So I'm talking about the 16 months of a nightmare beyond anyone's imagination.

01:05:57.560 Where I am a suspect, but they are not touching me.

01:06:01.120 While everyone else, everyone around me is being tortured and killed for 16 months.

01:06:08.480 And I was wondering, is my turn going to come?

01:06:12.360 Because of my father's status and their hypocrisy and, of course, their shame, they did not do anything to me.

01:06:23.460 But the thing is, up to that point, I did not betray.

01:06:28.720 I just told them the truth, not under pressure.

01:06:31.280 I thought, you know, they could help me, that this is my plan.

01:06:34.180 And this is how things went wrong between me and Hamas to the core. 0.59

01:06:40.960 When I was released from prison after 16 months, Hamas followed up outside prison.

01:06:47.100 My father was still in prison, but different Israeli prison at that time.

01:06:50.660 So he wasn't there to protect me.

01:06:53.040 And I was outraged.

01:06:56.080 Was he in prison with you?

01:06:57.560 No, no, no.

01:06:58.680 My father was in a high security prison.

01:07:01.340 I was in like more of a jail.

01:07:04.140 Okay, okay.

01:07:04.720 So he was in inside prison to protect me.

01:07:07.360 And when I was released, he was still in Israeli prison.

01:07:10.280 My father spent some 30 years of his life in Israeli prisons.

01:07:14.260 So now, outside the prison, Hamas is coming after me to say, it's like, just keep us posted what's going on.

01:07:24.060 And now, I don't want to say blackmailing me, but in the human nature, the handler of Hamas found the opportunity actually to take a total advantage. 0.99

01:07:40.540 He wanted me to become somehow like his bitch. 0.99

01:07:44.260 And I was in a situation, I prefer to die. 0.99

01:07:48.060 You know, I did not betray my people.

01:07:50.440 I don't have any intention to betray anybody.

01:07:53.560 I just thought that, okay, you know, we're fighting against occupation.

01:07:56.840 And this is the way to just become a Shaheed and exit all this tragedy for good.

01:08:03.040 So I was going suicidal.

01:08:04.340 I did not mean, you know, to sell my people for money.

01:08:09.520 So the only refuge was left on the table.

01:08:14.260 It's to actually go to the Israeli intelligence and ask them for help.

01:08:19.600 From Hamas this time. 0.98

01:08:21.920 Because Hamas... 0.91

01:08:23.560 What were they requiring of you, the Hamas handler?

01:08:27.400 What was being required of you?

01:08:28.860 The moment they put you at defense and you are in a society like this, where everything is ruled based on shame and honor, it's the most shameful thing.

01:08:40.040 They can ask you to do whatever they want you to do.

01:08:44.680 And it's up to the individual.

01:08:46.600 It's not even to the Hamas movement.

01:08:50.380 So, and they are going to hold it against you for eternity.

01:08:54.400 What kind of life is this?

01:08:55.800 It's like someone is holding something against you, and nothing will clean that shame, no matter what you do, except if you die.

01:09:07.840 Even if I became a suicide bomber, the shame will hunt me to my grave.

01:09:12.860 This was the reality of it.

01:09:14.140 So, this is where I think everything just went out of control.

01:09:19.380 I was like, since childhood, I had no mercy from these people.

01:09:24.740 And right now, trying to actually just escape my misery by dying for Allah, by dying for the nation, against the Zionist occupation.

01:09:38.740 They're coming after me.

01:09:40.440 So this is my psychic.

01:09:41.980 And I was, no matter what I do, even if I die, I will never be able to please them.

01:09:47.740 And why would I die?

01:09:50.040 So, in the first encounter with the Israeli intelligence, I told them the whole truth.

01:09:56.200 How did you make contact with them?

01:09:57.920 They made contact with me.

01:09:59.260 After I was released from prison, this was the original plan, wasn't it?

01:10:02.060 Yeah, okay.

01:10:02.940 So, after I was released from prison, they contact me.

01:10:06.600 And in the first meeting, I asked them, why didn't you come to help the people who were tortured in prison?

01:10:17.220 Listen, if you now want me really to work for you, you abandoned money.

01:10:22.160 You abandoned me.

01:10:24.560 They said, none of these people who were tortured and killed had any relationship with the Israeli intelligence.

01:10:30.320 It's all in Hamas head. 1.00

01:10:31.580 The handler said, I have been working with the agency for 18 years.

01:10:38.020 One asset in our district was cut in the action.

01:10:44.520 And this man is still alive in the United States.

01:10:46.880 And he gave me the name of that person.

01:10:50.100 He said, this is the only one.

01:10:51.380 This is the only true story.

01:10:53.260 The hundreds of others who have been killed had no relation.

01:10:57.640 They are all innocent people.

01:10:58.840 Well, if he was telling me the truth, this is even more disastrous.

01:11:09.560 And I decided to go back to the second meeting and the third meeting.

01:11:16.800 And every meeting, they were just building me up.

01:11:20.100 I was so broken.

01:11:22.360 Building you up in what way?

01:11:23.600 Building me up in education, conversation, open conversation about who they are, what they do.

01:11:34.200 And so this is when your political attitude started to switch, your attitude towards history.

01:11:39.040 Not yet.

01:11:39.340 This was just the early beginning.

01:11:40.760 Okay.

01:11:40.920 It was the early beginning.

01:11:41.780 Because simply, they said, here's money.

01:11:47.460 You go back to school.

01:11:50.360 And they gave me enough money, exact amount, that pays for my school.

01:11:55.220 And when I needed to do anything financial, they said, not possible.

01:12:03.660 We cannot give you any amount of money. 0.94

01:12:06.360 Because if we give you money and you cannot prove where you got this money from, they will kill you.

01:12:11.580 So I said, you only go to school.

01:12:13.160 What's my mission?

01:12:13.940 There is no mission.

01:12:15.480 There was no gun.

01:12:16.640 There is no go spy.

01:12:17.900 What school did you go?

01:12:19.000 So did you go back to high school?

01:12:20.300 I went back to the high school.

01:12:21.660 I graduated from high school.

01:12:23.280 But also they wanted me to go to college.

01:12:24.860 And I graduated four years college.

01:12:27.140 And during that entire time, they funded my education and my education only.

01:12:32.520 And there was no other deal than that.

01:12:34.120 There was no other deal than that.

01:12:35.580 Why did they do that?

01:12:36.560 Because this is how they work.

01:12:39.000 And this is how the Israeli intelligence work. 0.99

01:12:42.340 From the beginning, they said, listen, we don't work with losers. 0.99

01:12:45.500 It doesn't matter. 0.98

01:12:46.360 Like the fact that you are son of a Hamas leader does not qualify you.

01:12:51.000 You must be like us.

01:12:54.240 You need to think like us.

01:12:56.160 And you need to be a part of your society.

01:12:57.800 And you need to be productive. 0.98

01:12:59.060 You cannot be a loser. 0.97

01:13:00.460 If you are a loser, you will not gain the respect of your own society. 0.99

01:13:06.280 And they did a long process of fooling Hamas that we don't have a relationship. 0.99

01:13:15.860 That included some attack on our house, some arrests in the future.

01:13:20.300 All type of allusion orchestrated by the Israeli intelligence to just convince the society that I was a wanted person at some point.

01:13:30.600 That there was no way in the world that I had a relationship with the Israeli intelligence.

01:13:36.940 Especially when Hamas started building their trust with me again and I had top secrets of the movement. 0.96

01:13:44.780 But the Israelis did not act upon my intelligence or my information to just keep Hamas feeling safe for as long as possible. 0.76

01:13:54.740 So part of the building me up, you know, it was we had hundreds of meetings and they showed me many of the values.

01:14:07.480 For example, when we got into operation later on, civilians were involved.

01:14:13.820 We avoid civilians every time. 0.99

01:14:15.400 The civilian involvement was a big concern for the agency.

01:14:22.180 And I was really surprised because I thought that the wisdom on the Palestinian street that the Israelis will give you poison to put in the town's water. 1.00

01:14:32.020 They will give you a gun to shoot your own people. 0.99

01:14:34.540 They will make you rape women and take footage of them so you can blackmail them. 1.00

01:14:39.800 They will all type of crazy stories that they had. 0.99

01:14:45.100 It had nothing in reality.

01:14:47.460 And I was on my own.

01:14:48.440 They never connect me with anyone else.

01:14:50.920 And after my college, this is, I think, was the period where I was ready to do something good for myself.

01:14:59.560 What did you take in college?

01:15:02.080 I studied history.

01:15:04.860 In what aspect of history?

01:15:06.480 It was history and social studies.

01:15:11.560 But I studied world history, Middle East history, the history of religion.

01:15:18.380 Of course, you cannot cover everything in four years, but I did as much as I could and I was very interested in the topic.

01:15:27.160 So what did your education change for you?

01:15:30.540 Education was just the first step.

01:15:39.940 I had to educate myself.

01:15:42.440 Like, for example, when I was in prison, I studied English.

01:15:50.740 I memorized Oxford Dictionary.

01:15:54.540 I was reading 16 hours a day.

01:15:59.060 And I spent lots of time in Israeli prison.

01:16:01.840 This is how I spent my time.

01:16:03.360 When I was released, I opened up to Christianity, especially the Bible.

01:16:08.340 And the Bible had a huge impact on my life, especially, you know, the New Testament and the teachings of Christ,

01:16:16.580 which to me, you know, it's not Christianity as much as Christ consciousness, it's a state, advanced state of consciousness.

01:16:25.120 And the challenge of love, love thy enemy.

01:16:28.660 And that came in a place where I was conflicted.

01:16:33.240 Where you actually had enemies.

01:16:34.540 Exactly.

01:16:35.700 And who is my enemy?

01:16:37.360 Like, is it my people?

01:16:38.600 Is it my rapist? 0.99

01:16:39.680 Is it my torturer? 1.00

01:16:40.940 Is it Israel?

01:16:43.380 Is it?

01:16:44.020 Who is it?

01:16:45.280 So the challenge of love thy enemy really made peace with the world somehow.

01:16:53.900 And I decided that I don't have enemies anymore.

01:16:57.940 And this is what helped me actually heal and progress.

01:17:00.880 So I made a principle that I did not want to kill any of my opponents.

01:17:07.400 But I have to say that today I regret it.

01:17:10.340 Today I regret it.

01:17:12.160 The influence of Christ consciousness of just love everybody unconditionally

01:17:16.660 did not get me to where I needed to be.

01:17:24.680 Because today I'm under the influence of cause and effect.

01:17:30.880 Not right and wrong.

01:17:33.180 And I think there is no escape for anybody from karma or from their own actions.

01:17:38.440 Nobody is above this universal law.

01:17:40.320 It has nothing to do with cultures.

01:17:42.320 And I tried so hard to save my father's life.

01:17:45.880 If I wasn't in the picture, they would have killed him a thousand times.

01:17:50.400 Saying that he's, I thought to myself, he's moderate.

01:17:53.080 He's in a political wing.

01:17:54.560 He's not a military wing.

01:17:58.640 But this is the problem of this is a moderate and this is extremist.

01:18:03.440 Then you go into this rabbit hole and you never find your way out.

01:18:07.180 I thought to myself, no.

01:18:09.620 You are complicit in Hamas crimes. 0.97

01:18:11.520 Then you qualify for the same punishment as any of their attackers on October 7th.

01:18:23.700 And this is why I had to take a moral stand and say, 0.99

01:18:26.820 all Hamas leaders must be executed. 0.92

01:18:31.280 What happened on October 7th was a capital crime. 0.99

01:18:35.740 A genocide cannot be taken lightly.

01:18:40.020 This is not just an act of resistance.

01:18:43.000 To wipe out 20 plus communities based on their ethnic background, 1.00

01:18:52.280 based on their religion is not an act of resistance.

01:18:57.880 It's not justified. 0.96

01:18:59.600 Killing babies, killing children, raping women, kidnapping hostages, 0.99

01:19:04.520 killing animals, burning trees. 1.00

01:19:09.560 Nothing gets worse than this.

01:19:11.680 And it requires captive crime.

01:19:14.120 And I had the thought, what about my father?

01:19:17.920 Who I loved very much.

01:19:19.560 Who disowned me 14 years ago.

01:19:25.300 I never gave up on him.

01:19:27.520 I was like always, you know, in my heart, this is my father.

01:19:30.640 I love you.

01:19:31.800 Whatever, you know, you didn't necessarily to just shun me

01:19:34.560 and throw me to the mouth of death. 0.91

01:19:38.220 It's no problem. 0.95

01:19:39.040 I'm, as long as you are okay.

01:19:44.400 But after October 7th, I had to make a very difficult choice

01:19:48.700 because this is where or when we have to draw the line.

01:19:54.720 All of us are connected to a certain interest that this is a family relationship,

01:20:02.420 this is a love relationship, my relationship to this property,

01:20:06.580 my personal interest to a certain degree.

01:20:09.340 Hence, we compromise the truth, even though the obvious truth that what happened on October 7th is wrong.

01:20:17.440 It doesn't matter.

01:20:19.220 If Muslims did it, they are wrong. 1.00

01:20:22.460 I don't care.

01:20:23.660 If they are Buddhists, if they are Americans, it doesn't matter who they are. 1.00

01:20:27.340 It was wrong.

01:20:28.220 And I take the moral stand.

01:20:31.900 My father is complicit in this.

01:20:35.520 And especially when I saw him on the top of a demonstration,

01:20:38.880 supporting Hamas in our town, in Ramallah,

01:20:41.660 this was the moment that I thought,

01:20:44.720 he's not my father anymore.

01:20:47.260 Cannot be.

01:20:47.860 And the hostage situation was very hard

01:20:52.700 that I didn't know how Israel is going to bring those hostages back.

01:20:57.440 And Hamas want mass murderers to be released.

01:21:01.800 Happened to be the same people who were torturing prisoners on my watch.

01:21:08.420 And happened to be the same mass murderers

01:21:12.240 who carried suicide bombing attacks during the Second Palestinian Intifar,

01:21:16.400 like Ibrahim Hamid and Abdullah al-Bargouti,

01:21:19.220 people I knew personally.

01:21:21.340 This people, Hamas is asking to release.

01:21:26.400 And we cannot release them.

01:21:28.060 We cannot put them back to the streets for innocent hostages.

01:21:31.800 Such impossible situation.

01:21:33.900 So my suggestion, and this is, again, you know,

01:21:37.220 I knew the Israeli government will not do that. 0.94

01:21:40.520 But I give them the permission to execute all these mass murderers. 0.78

01:21:46.820 Because if they were executed from the beginning, 0.96

01:21:50.780 Hamas would have not kidnapped a one-year-old hostage 0.77

01:21:54.240 asking for their release.

01:21:57.040 But then what about my father, my own father?

01:22:00.300 Is he an exception?

01:22:01.460 He could not be an exception.

01:22:07.260 No one can be an exception if they are complicit in a genocide.

01:22:12.520 So this is where, you know, since October 7,

01:22:15.480 it's just as chaotic as it is in the Middle East, 1.00

01:22:18.520 and my life also is chaotic, and I don't have way around it.

01:22:22.180 To see the Muslim population weaponizing their religious identity 1.00

01:22:26.160 against the Jewish as a religious minority.

01:22:29.040 And I have known the Jewish people for about 27 years now.

01:22:34.000 Actually, my relationship with the Jewish nation

01:22:36.000 is a lot deeper than my relation with the Muslim nation.

01:22:41.120 It's a lot longer, a lot deeper.

01:22:45.100 Many of the Jewish mothers throughout this journey,

01:22:47.600 they took me in, you know, a country, a nation

01:22:50.660 that really gave me so much support.

01:22:53.220 I'm not talking about financial support

01:22:54.880 as much as, like, sincere concern for my well-being.

01:23:01.840 I've been to hundreds of Jewish families,

01:23:04.880 Shabbat dinners.

01:23:07.660 I have adopted nephews, Jewish nephews,

01:23:11.280 that they're fighting in Gaza today.

01:23:12.840 So in the face of such a situation,

01:23:18.040 how can I abandon the Jewish people?

01:23:21.260 Those are my people right now.

01:23:23.500 And the Arabs also, the Arab children.

01:23:26.340 I see myself, this is me.

01:23:28.100 And I see how the predators, the pro-Palestine 1.00

01:23:33.400 and the Hamas billionaires 0.65

01:23:35.880 and the other criminals

01:23:40.160 taking advantage of the situation on a global scale.

01:23:45.660 I find myself just fighting at so many fronts

01:23:48.560 that it just, it makes out of me an absolute mad person.

01:23:53.100 So you, your education was paid for

01:23:58.660 by the Israeli Intelligence Agency

01:24:03.300 and you started to question

01:24:05.700 your concept of their work.

01:24:11.780 And then you broadened your education formally.

01:24:17.220 How is it that you worked

01:24:19.040 for the Israeli Intelligence Organization?

01:24:21.960 How did that come about?

01:24:23.280 And what sort of work did you do?

01:24:25.840 So, because you said to begin with,

01:24:27.640 they were just paying for your education

01:24:29.060 and you were talking to them.

01:24:30.440 Right.

01:24:30.640 And you were learning that they were different

01:24:32.120 than you thought.

01:24:33.480 Yes.

01:24:33.720 And I was also very young at that point.

01:24:40.380 Things became serious

01:24:43.700 at the beginning of the

01:24:45.140 Second Palestinian Intifada.

01:24:48.280 And that was, so the beginning of this journey

01:24:50.920 with the Israeli Intelligence started in 1996.

01:24:55.060 The Second Palestinian Intifada started in 2000,

01:24:58.300 right before 9-11.

01:25:02.900 So I was already towards the end of my school

01:25:07.460 and I knew enough about Hamas, 0.79

01:25:12.640 about the Palestinian Authority.

01:25:16.480 And it happened that I was part of Yasser Arafat meetings.

01:25:20.500 And I was part of other Palestinian factions meetings,

01:25:24.540 Islamic Jihad, Fatah.

01:25:26.040 And my relation, based on my father's public status,

01:25:35.100 I was able to go pretty much anywhere I wanted to go.

01:25:38.860 And people knew me from my childhood,

01:25:40.920 even though I was a troublemaker, you know,

01:25:43.220 at that time I was a lot more stable.

01:25:45.040 What position exactly did your father play or hold?

01:25:50.920 So basically, my father's position, of course, is changing,

01:25:56.720 but because of internal elections.

01:26:00.340 And his status would never be revealed to the public,

01:26:03.920 not even to Hamas members,

01:26:05.740 because the voting for his status would be only limited to the Hamas leadership.

01:26:09.940 At that time, I think he was from the,

01:26:15.020 or he maintained throughout his career with Hamas,

01:26:19.180 top, top leadership in the Hamas Shura Council,

01:26:22.360 plus a huge chance that he's one of the founders of Hamas,

01:26:27.100 but he never revealed that.

01:26:29.280 I knew this from other Hamas leaders, 0.55

01:26:31.900 but he would never reveal that information to me.

01:26:34.680 Okay.

01:26:36.000 Okay.

01:26:36.440 They usually reveal this information after his death.

01:26:38.880 So we're talking about he's not only a leader of the movement,

01:26:43.620 he's also the spiritual leader of the movement.

01:26:47.220 Today, he could be the spiritual father of the movement.

01:26:51.300 This is his significance.

01:26:53.240 So not just logistical.

01:26:57.060 Okay.

01:26:57.860 And, of course, after my story came out,

01:27:02.880 his status in the movement was shaken.

01:27:06.420 Right.

01:27:06.620 But somehow they wanted to give him as much support as they could.

01:27:13.480 Okay.

01:27:13.760 So now we're at the second intifada.

01:27:15.720 This is about,

01:27:16.660 this you said,

01:27:17.260 this is just before 9-11.

01:27:18.580 This is around the year 2000.

01:27:20.340 Right.

01:27:20.860 Okay.

01:27:21.240 So what's happening?

01:27:22.540 And you have access to all these meetings.

01:27:25.040 Right.

01:27:25.360 But you've already established a relationship with the Israeli intelligence.

01:27:29.800 Yes.

01:27:30.000 So basically,

01:27:31.840 trust between me and the Israeli intelligence was already established.

01:27:38.460 And I was highly motivated to capture a suicide bomber before they reached their target.

01:27:47.540 Israel was really struggling with this issue.

01:27:50.540 We had...

01:27:51.540 So that became your mission?

01:27:52.820 It was suicide bomber prevention oriented?

01:27:56.100 Yes.

01:27:56.540 The thing is,

01:27:57.460 everything was happening in front of my eyes.

01:27:59.860 The only thing I just needed to set my intention,

01:28:03.860 that do I want to do this job?

01:28:05.680 Do I want to do this very difficult job or not?

01:28:08.480 Because even though I established the relationship with the Israeli intelligence,

01:28:12.540 but did not mean that I was forced to do anything.

01:28:16.680 So I was in the mosque.

01:28:19.180 I was in the meetings.

01:28:20.580 I was in the safe houses.

01:28:22.200 I was pretty much everywhere.

01:28:24.280 And any strange encounter between two Hamas members,

01:28:29.540 I was able to just detect that this is unusual.

01:28:32.540 We have to look into it.

01:28:33.760 Now, what was more important than the Israeli intelligence had lots of information,

01:28:40.880 but it would take an expert hours and hours to go through thousands of pages to come to a conclusion.

01:28:50.400 For me, if I hear the story, I would come to the conclusion immediately.

01:28:54.900 So I was able to piece the puzzle.

01:28:57.180 And many people think that I was informant, like going and bringing information.

01:29:00.860 But what they didn't realize, actually, the Israeli intelligence had the information already.

01:29:05.960 And all I was just in a meeting, piece in the puzzle.

01:29:11.520 And then when I go back to the society, I act based on what I know now from the meetings.

01:29:19.380 So the information, the intelligence that I received from the Shin Bet helped me navigate a thousand times stronger

01:29:31.260 than if I was only a son of Hamas leader.

01:29:37.940 So I ended up knowing about Hamas a lot more than what my father knew about Hamas operation.

01:29:43.300 So being part of that culture and having whatever information, it made my position very, very strong

01:30:00.220 that I was able to reach a suicide bomber before they reached their target.

01:30:08.740 How many times did you do that?

01:30:10.560 Okay.

01:30:10.820 And I hate to talk about this.

01:30:12.800 I hate to talk about it because this is where I start playing the hero.

01:30:16.860 And even in the book, I would talk about it.

01:30:18.640 But I think right now it's inevitable because many people are trying to discredit my journey.

01:30:25.080 And it's a vow.

01:30:26.340 It's also that I'm supposed not to talk about operation

01:30:30.680 and reveal the secrets of our work to the enemy.

01:30:35.720 But you can say the least dozens of suicide bombing attacks, dozens on a regular basis,

01:30:48.320 from capturing five suicide bombers at the time to seven suicide bombers at the time,

01:30:55.500 to capturing the masterminds that includes the bomb maker, and that was our biggest concern.

01:31:05.280 In fact, somebody like Abdullah al-Barguthi, which was a very, very dangerous Hamas asset, 0.95

01:31:12.060 the most dangerous Hamas bomb maker. 0.66

01:31:14.280 He's in an Israeli prison today.

01:31:17.800 I was the first to reach his location, his lab, and recognize him.

01:31:29.320 Responsible for the death of at least 100 people at that time before he was arrested.

01:31:34.120 Ibrahim Hamid and the entire Hamas military wing of the West Bank,

01:31:41.960 which they were using a research center as their cover.

01:31:50.960 They never come to the mosque.

01:31:53.440 They never participate in Hamas activities.

01:31:56.180 They're all shaved.

01:31:56.960 They don't have beards.

01:31:58.620 They're intellectuals, et cetera, historians.

01:32:02.260 And I had my suspicion, but the agency did not have any information about this guy.

01:32:08.380 Guys, there were five of them.

01:32:11.720 And I kept arguing for about three years,

01:32:16.020 arguing with the agency that these people are doing something wrong,

01:32:19.640 doing something, and nobody would listen to me.

01:32:22.480 Until finally, we realized that these people have been the core group

01:32:27.500 behind 95% of the suicide bombing attacks during the Second Paris Sinai Intifada.

01:32:33.860 Just, they were there, and we could not make the connection.

01:32:38.080 Then finally, the agency is like, how did you come to this conclusion?

01:32:41.980 So many times, they were just like a gut feeling.

01:32:44.840 Or like literally, I would just be taking my little sister to the school in the morning,

01:32:50.380 and all of a sudden, I see this most wanted entering a building.

01:32:56.260 And this was his apartment, his safe house.

01:32:59.100 Then I called the agency, and I say, I found him.

01:33:02.000 But how did you find him?

01:33:02.940 I was just driving, and he just entered in the building.

01:33:06.140 They could not believe it.

01:33:07.580 Ibrahim Hamid.

01:33:08.680 The agency did not see him in eight years.

01:33:10.840 They did not see his face in eight years.

01:33:12.960 And I finally looked at him.

01:33:16.500 So it was, at some point, I remember,

01:33:18.980 Avi Dikhtar was the head of the agency at that time.

01:33:21.760 He said, get him out.

01:33:23.540 Get him out. 0.99

01:33:24.260 He's going to get killed. 0.95

01:33:25.520 Because the amount of operation, 0.99

01:33:28.660 whether in Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad,

01:33:33.300 public front for liberation of Palestine.

01:33:35.340 In fact, Yasser Arafat, after winning the Nobel Prize Prize,

01:33:40.420 I was the source that brought the information

01:33:45.320 of his relation to suicide bombing attacks,

01:33:48.880 because I was in that meeting.

01:33:51.320 And the information that was given to Ariel Sharon,

01:33:53.780 the Israeli prime minister at that time,

01:33:57.400 my identity was never revealed.

01:34:00.040 The same information that was used in the UN Security Council.

01:34:04.660 So why am I telling you this?

01:34:06.960 Not to brag about it.

01:34:08.080 But the amount of intelligence of my life

01:34:10.980 was on the line every day,

01:34:13.200 every single day during the Second Palestinian Intifada,

01:34:16.920 all the way up to Hamas coup in Gaza.

01:34:22.440 And I told the Israeli intelligence

01:34:23.780 that Hamas is up to something.

01:34:25.880 They said, but this is too hard to believe.

01:34:29.620 The Palestinian Authority has 35,000 police officers.

01:34:35.020 Hamas has only 5,000.

01:34:36.460 It's not possible for them

01:34:38.820 to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.

01:34:41.380 I told them, this is Hamas' plan, 1.00

01:34:43.500 and this is what's going to happen.

01:34:45.300 And that was three months

01:34:47.120 before Hamas took over Gaza Strip.

01:34:49.600 Okay, now,

01:34:51.340 where it's going to get tricky,

01:34:52.700 you know,

01:34:52.880 this is stuff that I don't like to talk about.

01:34:56.480 Nobody gave a damn.

01:34:58.780 And three months later,

01:35:00.140 Hamas was in power. 0.99

01:35:01.020 And instead of destroying Hamas

01:35:03.180 and not allowing them to grow,

01:35:06.060 the world pressure against Israel

01:35:09.180 that this is an election,

01:35:10.840 and Hamas won the elections,

01:35:12.280 and we have to accept them

01:35:14.020 as a legitimate political party.

01:35:16.720 And they just kept playing this game,

01:35:20.780 and Israel agreed to go into their rabbit hole 0.99

01:35:23.060 until Hamas became the power it became. 0.92

01:35:25.720 And even from the first war with Hamas, 0.53

01:35:29.380 Israel was determined 0.94

01:35:30.540 to destroy Hamas completely.

01:35:33.140 But the world came,

01:35:34.300 sees fire now.

01:35:36.220 And we sees fire.

01:35:37.520 The first war,

01:35:38.220 the second war,

01:35:38.900 the third war,

01:35:39.440 the fourth war.

01:35:40.760 And every time,

01:35:41.480 they use children as human sheets.

01:35:44.380 And this time,

01:35:45.220 there is no way around it. 0.99

01:35:46.900 You'll have to eradicate them. 0.96

01:35:48.400 Otherwise, 0.99

01:35:48.940 they will do a lot worse

01:35:51.180 in the next war.

01:35:53.020 How do you understand

01:35:53.980 the relationship

01:35:54.680 between Hamas and Iran?

01:35:59.180 It's a very weird

01:36:00.240 and awkward relationship

01:36:01.360 because Shia and Sunni, 0.50

01:36:03.080 they hate each other.

01:36:03.840 So there is a bloody history

01:36:05.340 between both sects.

01:36:08.660 But it's in Iran's interest 1.00

01:36:13.300 to destabilize the region.

01:36:16.400 They find in Hamas a device. 0.95

01:36:19.700 They give Hamas 0.99

01:36:22.620 billions of dollars.

01:36:24.500 But they...

01:36:25.360 Why do you think

01:36:25.880 the Americans,

01:36:26.760 especially the Democrats,

01:36:27.860 why do you think

01:36:28.280 they can't see this?

01:36:31.320 Because everybody

01:36:32.260 is after their interest.

01:36:33.640 Like, for example,

01:36:34.360 right now,

01:36:35.360 we have Iran's 1.00

01:36:36.680 full attack on Israel.

01:36:40.180 Ballistic missiles,

01:36:41.320 such as...

01:36:41.460 Okay,

01:36:41.740 we downed many of those

01:36:43.240 and the United States

01:36:44.060 helped the UK,

01:36:45.340 other NATO countries.

01:36:47.500 This is...

01:36:47.920 Other Arab states.

01:36:48.960 Arab states.

01:36:49.700 Okay,

01:36:50.040 this is great.

01:36:51.120 But are we supposed

01:36:52.740 to be a defense?

01:36:54.300 Is this the best

01:36:55.360 we could do?

01:36:56.620 That we just stand

01:36:57.680 a defense?

01:36:58.280 The superpower?

01:37:02.300 I would destroy

01:37:03.660 the Iranian nuclear program 0.81

01:37:05.960 immediately.

01:37:06.900 This is what I called

01:37:07.780 from day one.

01:37:08.620 I said,

01:37:08.900 the most adequate response

01:37:10.920 to October 7th

01:37:12.080 is the destruction

01:37:12.940 of Iran's nuclear program.

01:37:15.500 You cannot give

01:37:16.640 a Muslim country 0.90

01:37:18.220 a nuclear power.

01:37:19.340 It was a big mistake

01:37:20.860 to let Pakistan

01:37:21.860 to become

01:37:22.360 a nuclear power.

01:37:24.260 This could lead

01:37:25.880 to a global situation,

01:37:28.720 a very ugly situation.

01:37:30.840 They are not responsible.

01:37:32.120 They are dictatorship.

01:37:33.300 They are not

01:37:34.900 accountable

01:37:36.460 to anybody

01:37:37.660 but Allah.

01:37:38.520 How can you give them

01:37:39.500 our intellectual...

01:37:39.980 Their interpretation

01:37:40.640 of Allah.

01:37:41.500 Of course,

01:37:42.480 yeah.

01:37:43.560 Allah itself,

01:37:44.760 I don't want to say

01:37:45.440 even interpretation

01:37:46.140 because Allah

01:37:46.860 as is in the Quran

01:37:48.320 is a very dangerous entity.

01:37:50.480 So it's not a matter

01:37:51.200 of misinterpretation

01:37:52.420 that the guy

01:37:53.240 is a very good guy

01:37:53.980 in the Quran

01:37:54.480 and the Islamists 0.93

01:37:56.140 or extremists

01:37:57.140 see him

01:37:57.920 as a bad guy.

01:37:59.920 No,

01:38:00.100 he is a bad guy.

01:38:01.400 Sooner or later

01:38:02.180 the world is going

01:38:03.000 to wake up

01:38:03.500 on a disaster

01:38:04.140 and realize

01:38:04.840 what we are saying

01:38:05.600 is the truth.

01:38:06.460 So the United States

01:38:10.800 is not doing their job.

01:38:12.760 We have advanced weaponry

01:38:15.300 like, for example,

01:38:17.660 the electromagnetic bomb.

01:38:19.980 We'll drop one of these, 0.99

01:38:21.140 paralyze their entire system. 0.83

01:38:22.500 No civilians 1.00

01:38:23.080 will die in this process.

01:38:24.800 Just send them back 0.99

01:38:25.820 to the Stone Age

01:38:26.840 and in the meantime

01:38:27.640 destroy their nuclear program.

01:38:29.780 Show them, you know,

01:38:30.420 who is the boss.

01:38:32.780 But instead,

01:38:33.740 we are compromising

01:38:34.900 so they can get access

01:38:36.120 to our intellectual property

01:38:37.820 and use our weapons

01:38:39.320 against us.

01:38:41.640 This is insanity.

01:38:44.040 But why the Biden administration

01:38:46.020 doing this?

01:38:46.700 Because he's trying

01:38:47.300 to please the voters.

01:38:49.720 He's trying to please

01:38:50.920 Rashida Tlaib.

01:38:52.360 He's trying to

01:38:53.420 please the LGBT.

01:38:55.880 That's all part of that

01:38:56.780 victim-victimizer narrative.

01:38:58.680 Yes.

01:38:59.080 He's trying to please everybody.

01:39:00.300 And I say, you know,

01:39:00.940 if his strong leaders

01:39:02.400 take risk.

01:39:04.400 Take risk.

01:39:06.120 Weak leaders

01:39:07.760 try to please everybody.

01:39:09.840 And I think this is

01:39:10.540 the situation

01:39:11.040 of this administration.

01:39:12.480 You cannot please everybody.

01:39:14.160 You cannot please Israel 1.00

01:39:15.140 and please Rashida Tlaib

01:39:17.060 simultaneously.

01:39:18.880 You cannot.

01:39:19.720 You need to choose

01:39:20.420 who's my ally

01:39:21.160 in this situation.

01:39:22.480 Israel is a reliable ally

01:39:24.020 and they are under attack

01:39:25.320 and they are protecting

01:39:28.860 the American interests

01:39:29.840 in the region.

01:39:31.360 They are maintaining

01:39:32.620 the stability

01:39:33.660 of the region.

01:39:36.940 I don't want to say

01:39:37.560 the world.

01:39:38.320 It's not just an ally.

01:39:40.540 But then

01:39:41.020 they come and

01:39:41.960 accuse America

01:39:44.720 of giving support

01:39:45.780 to Israel.

01:39:46.680 Well, how much

01:39:47.420 support

01:39:48.400 Israel give 0.72

01:39:49.240 the United States?

01:39:49.960 How much support

01:39:51.040 the Jewish

01:39:52.620 population

01:39:54.100 in the United States?

01:39:55.080 American Jews

01:39:55.960 give the

01:39:56.840 American treasury

01:39:58.200 from their tax

01:39:59.760 money

01:40:00.420 and

01:40:00.820 in every aspect

01:40:03.160 of economy.

01:40:05.460 What conclusions

01:40:06.680 did you draw

01:40:07.680 about the

01:40:08.500 Jewish society

01:40:09.540 in Israel

01:40:10.020 as you became

01:40:10.860 more and more

01:40:11.740 familiar with

01:40:12.540 its nature?

01:40:15.080 Well, first of all,

01:40:15.880 it's democracy.

01:40:16.880 that it's

01:40:18.520 a diverse

01:40:19.920 society.

01:40:21.560 There are

01:40:21.940 the Muslims,

01:40:22.740 there are

01:40:23.000 the Jews,

01:40:23.800 the Christians,

01:40:25.240 there are

01:40:25.560 human rights.

01:40:27.140 You know,

01:40:27.340 one of the things

01:40:28.180 that was

01:40:29.700 just unbelievable

01:40:30.600 during the

01:40:31.620 Second Parisian

01:40:32.280 Intifada,

01:40:34.000 when a building

01:40:34.640 collapsed

01:40:35.220 and there were

01:40:37.640 clashes on the

01:40:38.440 checkpoints

01:40:38.980 everywhere,

01:40:40.360 shooting at 0.68

01:40:40.840 soldiers,

01:40:41.240 and it was

01:40:41.480 very dangerous

01:40:42.160 for the Israelis

01:40:42.940 to enter

01:40:44.540 the city

01:40:45.100 of Ramallah.

01:40:45.580 But when the

01:40:46.520 building collapsed,

01:40:47.520 we did not

01:40:48.040 have a rescue

01:40:48.620 team,

01:40:48.980 we did not

01:40:49.300 have a fire

01:40:49.800 department

01:40:50.300 because it's 0.53

01:40:50.880 such a corrupt

01:40:51.540 system that

01:40:53.080 invested all

01:40:53.720 the money

01:40:54.020 in luxury

01:40:54.580 and they

01:40:55.560 never invest

01:40:56.800 the money

01:40:57.180 in infrastructure.

01:40:59.420 So the

01:41:00.580 dozens of

01:41:01.860 workers are

01:41:02.480 stuck under

01:41:02.960 the rubble

01:41:03.400 and we

01:41:03.700 cannot get

01:41:04.100 them out.

01:41:05.260 So we

01:41:06.000 had to call

01:41:06.740 the Israelis

01:41:08.120 during the

01:41:08.820 Second Intifada

01:41:09.800 while we

01:41:10.980 were shooting 0.60

01:41:11.380 at them,

01:41:11.880 say,

01:41:12.160 please come

01:41:12.840 into Ramallah

01:41:13.920 to the city

01:41:14.460 center and

01:41:15.000 help us.

01:41:16.340 So the

01:41:17.640 Israel sent 1.00

01:41:18.640 the fire

01:41:19.060 department,

01:41:20.000 of course,

01:41:20.500 with the

01:41:20.700 IDF to

01:41:21.200 protect them.

01:41:23.240 The entire

01:41:24.360 day evacuating

01:41:25.500 the victims,

01:41:27.800 taking them

01:41:28.780 to Israeli

01:41:29.380 hospitals.

01:41:30.600 And after

01:41:31.040 a long

01:41:33.620 day,

01:41:35.160 the IDF

01:41:35.960 exit the

01:41:37.020 city of

01:41:37.400 Ramallah

01:41:37.760 and people

01:41:38.740 rewarded them,

01:41:40.000 shooting at 0.99

01:41:40.580 them, 0.99

01:41:41.180 throwing

01:41:41.400 morotov

01:41:42.320 cocktails,

01:41:43.480 throwing

01:41:43.720 stones,

01:41:45.220 etc.

01:41:46.500 I was

01:41:47.500 there because

01:41:48.020 my job

01:41:48.580 was just

01:41:49.200 to be

01:41:49.380 there to

01:41:49.820 make sure

01:41:50.200 that the

01:41:51.040 troops are

01:41:51.580 okay.

01:41:52.740 So the

01:41:53.380 troops protecting

01:41:54.360 the rescue

01:41:54.960 team, I

01:41:56.100 am there to

01:41:56.540 make sure

01:41:56.800 that the

01:41:57.140 troops are

01:41:57.620 okay and

01:41:58.860 the civilians

01:41:59.980 of Ramallah

01:42:00.840 are waiting

01:42:01.320 for the

01:42:01.720 troops to

01:42:02.200 evacuate after

01:42:03.640 helping the

01:42:04.760 Palestinians by

01:42:06.180 throwing stones,

01:42:07.040 molotov,

01:42:07.500 cocktails, and

01:42:08.360 shooting at 0.99

01:42:09.140 them. 0.96

01:42:09.300 this type

01:42:11.380 of events,

01:42:12.500 you know,

01:42:12.780 are just 1.00

01:42:13.120 insane.

01:42:14.700 And it

01:42:15.900 just keeps

01:42:16.560 going like

01:42:17.140 this.

01:42:17.560 Everything

01:42:17.960 about the

01:42:20.860 Palestinian

01:42:22.960 mentality,

01:42:24.740 the Arab

01:42:25.180 culture,

01:42:26.220 and you

01:42:27.280 see the

01:42:27.820 law and

01:42:28.760 order that

01:42:29.340 there is

01:42:29.580 protocol.

01:42:30.260 The Israeli

01:42:30.680 intelligence

01:42:31.200 follow a

01:42:32.040 protocol.

01:42:32.480 no one

01:42:34.780 was arrested

01:42:35.660 if Israel

01:42:36.700 did not

01:42:37.280 have evidence

01:42:38.200 of their

01:42:38.780 involvement

01:42:39.420 in terrorism.

01:42:41.380 And no

01:42:41.940 one was

01:42:42.420 assassinated,

01:42:43.660 especially

01:42:44.060 the most

01:42:45.400 dangerous 0.93

01:42:45.940 terrorists 0.98

01:42:46.380 that Israel

01:42:46.860 could not

01:42:47.360 arrest,

01:42:48.080 that they

01:42:48.320 were hiding

01:42:48.920 in the

01:42:50.320 city centers,

01:42:51.800 that none

01:42:53.900 of them

01:42:54.280 were killed 0.97

01:42:55.400 if they

01:42:56.060 did not

01:42:56.460 have direct

01:42:57.240 relationship

01:42:58.040 to suicide

01:42:58.900 bombing

01:42:59.240 attacks and

01:42:59.760 they had

01:43:00.100 blood on

01:43:00.560 their hands.

01:43:01.380 None.

01:43:02.480 So you

01:43:03.380 saw an

01:43:03.740 organization

01:43:04.320 that ran

01:43:04.960 by rule

01:43:05.420 of law?

01:43:07.120 Absolutely.

01:43:08.000 And there

01:43:08.340 is no doubt

01:43:08.900 about it.

01:43:09.380 And this

01:43:09.580 is why I'm

01:43:09.960 heartbroken

01:43:11.000 because I

01:43:11.600 know what's

01:43:12.080 happening in

01:43:12.580 Gaza right

01:43:13.040 now really

01:43:13.820 pushed Israel 0.99

01:43:14.820 to the

01:43:15.200 corner,

01:43:16.220 that they

01:43:16.940 had no

01:43:17.660 other choice

01:43:18.600 and there

01:43:20.700 was no

01:43:21.240 possibility to

01:43:22.220 avoid civilian 0.93

01:43:23.700 casualties after

01:43:25.280 October 7th.

01:43:26.000 Because I

01:43:26.500 know at their

01:43:27.240 heart they

01:43:28.200 would never

01:43:28.940 hurt an

01:43:30.780 innocent

01:43:31.180 civilian.

01:43:32.480 And they

01:43:33.260 gave the

01:43:33.720 Why did

01:43:34.220 you become

01:43:34.620 convinced of

01:43:35.220 that?

01:43:36.080 Because in

01:43:36.700 our operation

01:43:37.420 this is how

01:43:37.980 we dealt

01:43:38.460 with the

01:43:38.780 situation.

01:43:40.040 So you

01:43:40.320 saw this

01:43:40.940 firsthand?

01:43:41.640 Yes.

01:43:42.480 Like later

01:43:43.560 on one of

01:43:44.040 the exceptions

01:43:44.660 of my

01:43:46.180 entire career

01:43:46.980 that it

01:43:47.780 was a

01:43:51.040 day where

01:43:52.300 the agency

01:43:52.740 had no

01:43:53.320 choice but 0.99

01:43:56.540 to kill 1.00

01:43:57.060 one of 1.00

01:43:58.700 Yasser Arafat's

01:43:59.720 bodyguards.

01:44:01.840 His name

01:44:02.300 was

01:44:02.520 Mohamed

01:44:02.880 Abu

01:44:03.040 Halawa.

01:44:04.900 This guy

01:44:05.820 killed about

01:44:07.680 13 Israelis

01:44:08.620 and he was

01:44:09.480 hiding in

01:44:09.960 Yasser Arafat

01:44:10.680 compound.

01:44:11.680 I was the

01:44:12.120 one who

01:44:12.380 discovered him.

01:44:13.400 So I was

01:44:14.020 the only one

01:44:14.560 who could

01:44:16.260 recognize him.

01:44:16.980 And the

01:44:21.580 Israeli

01:44:21.860 intelligence

01:44:22.240 said,

01:44:22.720 listen,

01:44:23.060 we have

01:44:23.480 no one

01:44:23.980 else except

01:44:25.040 you.

01:44:25.440 And this

01:44:25.760 guy is

01:44:26.140 going every

01:44:27.040 night shooting 0.99

01:44:27.920 and killing 1.00

01:44:28.780 people. 1.00

01:44:30.640 Yasser Arafat

01:44:31.480 gave him

01:44:32.040 immunity.

01:44:33.640 The Israeli

01:44:34.760 intelligence could

01:44:35.460 not go into

01:44:36.000 Yasser Arafat

01:44:36.580 compound and

01:44:37.220 arrest him.

01:44:38.080 And they could

01:44:38.600 not predict

01:44:39.260 where he's

01:44:39.680 going.

01:44:39.940 And they

01:44:40.160 didn't know

01:44:40.520 how he

01:44:40.820 looked like.

01:44:41.340 So they

01:44:41.620 wanted him 0.99

01:44:42.120 dead. 0.98

01:44:42.420 That was

01:44:42.860 the only

01:44:43.220 way to

01:44:43.960 deal with

01:44:44.340 him.

01:44:44.920 So the

01:44:45.280 agency said,

01:44:45.920 listen,

01:44:46.200 you have

01:44:46.500 your moral

01:44:47.060 thing.

01:44:47.460 You don't

01:44:47.720 want to

01:44:48.020 kill anybody. 0.73

01:44:48.680 But if 1.00

01:44:49.520 this guy

01:44:49.920 is not

01:44:50.320 dead,

01:44:52.060 he's going 1.00

01:44:52.560 to kill 1.00

01:44:52.960 people tonight, 1.00

01:44:54.060 tomorrow night,

01:44:54.700 and he's

01:44:55.140 going to go

01:44:55.480 like this.

01:44:57.360 So this

01:44:58.600 is when I

01:44:59.300 had to

01:44:59.520 compromise.

01:45:03.000 The

01:45:03.480 first

01:45:05.660 attempt,

01:45:08.380 a top

01:45:08.960 Fatah leader

01:45:10.040 was in the

01:45:10.660 car.

01:45:11.160 His name

01:45:11.540 is Marwan

01:45:12.000 Barghouti.

01:45:12.520 He's

01:45:12.720 today in

01:45:13.160 Israeli

01:45:13.520 prison.

01:45:14.100 And everybody

01:45:14.500 said that

01:45:14.940 this could

01:45:15.280 be the

01:45:15.640 next

01:45:15.860 Palestinian

01:45:16.300 president.

01:45:18.740 And the

01:45:19.320 operation was

01:45:19.920 canceled.

01:45:21.280 Because there

01:45:21.940 was other

01:45:22.520 terrorists in

01:45:23.340 the car.

01:45:24.020 I'm not

01:45:24.380 talking about

01:45:24.920 like a

01:45:25.920 civilian in

01:45:26.660 the car.

01:45:27.840 And this

01:45:28.500 guy was so

01:45:29.140 hard to

01:45:29.680 find.

01:45:30.920 Like the

01:45:31.520 agency would

01:45:32.160 say, it's

01:45:32.380 like, you

01:45:32.640 know what?

01:45:33.960 Eliminate

01:45:34.420 both of 0.99

01:45:34.740 them.

01:45:35.280 We are not

01:45:36.020 going to

01:45:36.300 take a

01:45:36.720 risk that

01:45:37.220 he's going

01:45:37.520 to kill 1.00

01:45:37.820 more Israeli 1.00

01:45:39.100 civilians.

01:45:39.740 And the

01:45:40.060 operation was

01:45:40.660 canceled.

01:45:40.960 I was

01:45:41.500 really

01:45:41.840 shocked.

01:45:43.480 I was

01:45:44.000 shocked.

01:45:44.920 So our

01:45:45.940 job was

01:45:46.480 many times

01:45:47.120 when we

01:45:47.660 knew about

01:45:48.100 a safe

01:45:48.460 house of 0.97

01:45:49.260 terrorists, 0.99

01:45:49.860 okay, is 0.80

01:45:50.620 his family

01:45:51.480 there?

01:45:52.800 Okay, when

01:45:53.520 is his

01:45:54.100 family

01:45:54.540 leaving?

01:45:57.400 It's always

01:45:58.120 civilian

01:45:58.740 situation was

01:46:00.500 taken into

01:46:01.180 consideration.

01:46:02.180 And this is a

01:46:02.760 10-year

01:46:03.120 experience.

01:46:03.900 So when

01:46:04.180 people come

01:46:05.000 to me today,

01:46:05.580 it's like

01:46:05.900 that Israel

01:46:06.600 is ethnically

01:46:07.660 cleansing

01:46:08.140 the 0.97

01:46:09.460 Palestinians.

01:46:10.260 It's a 0.94

01:46:10.560 lie.

01:46:11.620 Israel is

01:46:13.020 accountable to

01:46:13.700 international

01:46:14.220 law.

01:46:15.260 Israel cannot 1.00

01:46:15.960 do this.

01:46:16.380 Even if

01:46:16.680 there was

01:46:17.000 corruption,

01:46:17.480 let's say,

01:46:17.900 some racist

01:46:18.660 within the

01:46:19.620 IDF and

01:46:20.700 they did

01:46:21.060 something

01:46:21.540 illegal,

01:46:22.380 they would

01:46:22.680 be held

01:46:25.000 accountable.

01:46:26.480 But this

01:46:26.820 is not a

01:46:27.280 state policy.

01:46:28.240 It cannot

01:46:28.660 be.

01:46:29.840 But people

01:46:30.980 want to see

01:46:31.680 it in black

01:46:32.100 and white.

01:46:32.900 If you come

01:46:33.200 try to bring

01:46:33.700 them other

01:46:34.020 truth, like

01:46:34.800 for example,

01:46:35.220 what's

01:46:35.480 happening

01:46:35.700 today is

01:46:36.240 collateral

01:46:37.100 damage.

01:46:39.040 And it's

01:46:40.140 not only

01:46:40.560 that.

01:46:41.480 Who's

01:46:41.820 killing the

01:46:42.220 civilians?

01:46:43.280 Did people

01:46:44.000 take into

01:46:44.580 consideration

01:46:45.120 that Hamas 0.99

01:46:46.000 put booby

01:46:47.200 traps

01:46:47.620 everywhere?

01:46:49.260 And how

01:46:50.000 would we

01:46:50.300 know the

01:46:50.640 difference

01:46:51.040 between

01:46:51.540 Israeli

01:46:52.160 airstrike

01:46:52.800 and Hamas

01:46:53.500 booby

01:46:53.800 trap that

01:46:54.340 targeted

01:46:54.720 civilians?

01:46:55.780 And how

01:46:56.700 do we

01:46:56.980 know,

01:46:57.240 actually,

01:46:57.500 that it's

01:46:57.940 not in

01:46:58.380 Hamas' 0.99

01:46:58.680 interest to 0.98

01:47:00.120 kill 0.99

01:47:01.500 civilians? 0.99

01:47:03.780 So,

01:47:04.340 then how

01:47:06.000 many Hamas...

01:47:06.660 It's clearly

01:47:06.940 in their

01:47:07.300 interest.

01:47:07.880 Of course.

01:47:08.760 This is

01:47:09.840 the most

01:47:10.920 powerful weapon

01:47:11.800 in their

01:47:12.240 hands to

01:47:12.820 delegitimize

01:47:13.680 Israel and

01:47:14.840 get legitimacy

01:47:15.600 on a global

01:47:16.120 level.

01:47:16.600 I think it's

01:47:17.360 impossible to

01:47:18.060 understand the

01:47:18.700 situation in

01:47:19.380 Israel without 0.99

01:47:19.980 understanding that

01:47:20.840 the Palestinians 0.97

01:47:21.460 are expendable. 0.98

01:47:23.480 Yeah.

01:47:24.780 So, Hamas is 0.52

01:47:25.760 committing not

01:47:26.780 only a capital

01:47:27.340 crime by

01:47:27.920 committing a

01:47:28.460 genocide on

01:47:28.960 October 7,

01:47:29.600 which actually

01:47:30.180 defines a

01:47:30.880 genocide.

01:47:31.220 then the 1.00

01:47:32.600 Muslims around

01:47:33.760 the world

01:47:34.320 outnumber Israel 0.88

01:47:37.740 and change

01:47:40.780 the narrative

01:47:41.300 so fast that

01:47:42.520 we go from

01:47:43.180 a Jewish

01:47:43.660 genocide on

01:47:44.940 October 7

01:47:45.940 to a

01:47:47.120 Palestinian

01:47:47.620 genocide in

01:47:49.360 less than

01:47:49.980 70 days.

01:47:51.920 This is how

01:47:52.320 fast...

01:47:52.820 That's effective

01:47:53.440 work on Iran's

01:47:54.320 part, my

01:47:54.840 estimation.

01:47:55.660 So, let me...

01:47:56.640 We're running

01:47:57.100 near the end of

01:47:57.940 the time we

01:47:58.460 have in this

01:47:59.400 session.

01:47:59.720 And for

01:47:59.920 everybody

01:48:00.240 watching and

01:48:00.860 listening, I'm

01:48:01.860 going to

01:48:02.140 continue this

01:48:02.700 conversation on

01:48:04.080 the Daily Wire

01:48:04.580 Plus side for

01:48:05.340 another half an

01:48:05.960 hour.

01:48:07.320 So, you

01:48:08.200 know, be

01:48:09.740 welcome to

01:48:10.240 join us

01:48:10.620 there.

01:48:11.640 I guess I'd

01:48:12.460 like to ask

01:48:13.020 you...

01:48:13.820 There's many

01:48:14.780 things, obviously,

01:48:15.620 that we've left

01:48:16.260 undiscussed, but

01:48:17.020 that's going to

01:48:17.840 be how it is.

01:48:18.860 I would like

01:48:19.520 you to tell

01:48:20.900 me what you

01:48:22.900 think about

01:48:23.500 what's happening

01:48:24.180 on the

01:48:25.900 streets in

01:48:26.780 Western cities,

01:48:27.700 but most

01:48:28.280 specifically on

01:48:29.340 university

01:48:29.800 campuses with

01:48:31.140 regards to

01:48:31.860 the pro-Hamas 1.00

01:48:32.960 movements that

01:48:34.020 seem to be

01:48:34.980 everywhere.

01:48:36.220 And if you

01:48:37.200 were speaking

01:48:38.060 with a group

01:48:38.600 of students

01:48:39.280 who are

01:48:40.780 acolytes of

01:48:42.520 the victim-victimizer

01:48:43.560 narrative and

01:48:44.840 portraying their

01:48:45.820 moral superiority

01:48:46.660 by adopting

01:48:48.880 the identity

01:48:49.620 of allies of

01:48:50.460 Hamas, it's 1.00

01:48:51.560 like, what do

01:48:51.860 you have to

01:48:52.140 say about

01:48:52.500 that?

01:48:52.740 again, it's

01:48:57.940 not one

01:48:59.760 phenomenon.

01:49:04.620 It's many

01:49:05.560 with different

01:49:08.540 motives are

01:49:09.800 coming to

01:49:11.500 claim to be

01:49:12.520 a pro-Palestine.

01:49:13.580 it's not

01:49:15.600 only a pro-Hamas.

01:49:17.440 Hamas is 0.99

01:49:18.280 actually

01:49:19.160 igniting the

01:49:24.100 bloodlust in

01:49:25.760 many of the

01:49:26.460 demonstrators.

01:49:27.920 So when

01:49:28.100 Hamas scores 0.87

01:49:30.240 and

01:49:31.820 shed blood,

01:49:35.280 this gives

01:49:36.180 them the

01:49:38.040 pleasure of

01:49:38.860 inflicting pain

01:49:40.000 on their

01:49:40.520 opponent.

01:49:41.680 They say,

01:49:42.120 oh, they

01:49:42.340 deserve it

01:49:43.000 because they

01:49:44.280 are the

01:49:44.600 Zionists, 1.00

01:49:45.140 they're the

01:49:45.480 colonizers,

01:49:46.300 they're the

01:49:46.560 occupiers,

01:49:47.220 they're the

01:49:47.540 bankers,

01:49:48.740 they are the

01:49:50.220 ones who

01:49:50.820 control the

01:49:51.320 economy,

01:49:52.320 those are the

01:49:52.980 ones we are

01:49:54.080 in debt to.

01:49:55.800 So many

01:49:57.700 people come

01:49:58.640 with a different

01:49:59.140 motive and

01:50:00.020 this is just

01:50:00.760 the hatred

01:50:01.320 against the

01:50:02.560 successful

01:50:02.980 minority.

01:50:04.160 This is the

01:50:05.120 curse when you

01:50:05.720 are a successful

01:50:06.260 minority that

01:50:07.020 many people are

01:50:07.700 going to come

01:50:08.280 after you,

01:50:08.860 especially if

01:50:09.560 you are

01:50:10.000 down or

01:50:10.640 if you are

01:50:11.120 wounded,

01:50:12.180 that they

01:50:12.520 will come

01:50:12.880 and try to 0.99

01:50:13.440 kick you 1.00

01:50:13.760 while you're 1.00

01:50:14.120 down.

01:50:15.280 So many

01:50:16.040 forces that

01:50:18.100 they are,

01:50:19.000 as we discussed

01:50:19.640 in the beginning,

01:50:20.460 that they are

01:50:20.900 opposing forces,

01:50:21.940 but somehow

01:50:22.520 they got

01:50:23.260 united in

01:50:24.800 a very

01:50:26.140 disgusting way

01:50:26.920 that shows

01:50:28.240 you the

01:50:28.720 moral decay

01:50:29.680 of such

01:50:30.700 groups.

01:50:31.660 And I'm

01:50:32.020 not talking

01:50:32.380 only about

01:50:32.880 students.

01:50:34.380 There are

01:50:34.800 historians,

01:50:35.980 there are

01:50:36.180 intellectuals,

01:50:37.160 there are

01:50:37.460 lawyers who

01:50:38.780 bought into

01:50:39.900 the BDS

01:50:43.660 or the

01:50:44.500 pro-Palestine

01:50:45.880 propaganda,

01:50:47.380 which is

01:50:47.700 basically that

01:50:48.840 Israel is an 1.00

01:50:49.460 apartheid

01:50:49.920 state,

01:50:51.120 that Israel

01:50:53.660 has been,

01:50:55.040 or the

01:50:55.520 Zionists, 1.00

01:50:56.460 been ethnically

01:50:57.980 cleansing the

01:50:58.500 Palestinian people.

01:50:59.740 If the

01:51:00.840 Palestinians had 0.99

01:51:01.900 a Palestinian

01:51:02.380 state,

01:51:02.960 we would have

01:51:03.760 not been in

01:51:04.540 this situation.

01:51:05.500 Hamas is a 1.00

01:51:08.460 resistant group,

01:51:09.820 and everybody

01:51:11.580 projects their

01:51:13.080 hatred based

01:51:14.980 on their

01:51:15.340 intelligence,

01:51:16.780 and based

01:51:17.620 on their

01:51:18.680 ability to

01:51:23.160 express

01:51:23.820 that.

01:51:24.820 So some

01:51:25.200 intellectuals,

01:51:26.060 they can

01:51:26.380 represent

01:51:27.100 their hatred,

01:51:29.540 but in a

01:51:31.320 deceptive way

01:51:32.000 that does not

01:51:32.600 show hatred,

01:51:33.080 just like show...

01:51:35.120 It's always

01:51:35.600 allyship for

01:51:36.420 the victim,

01:51:37.560 you know.

01:51:38.080 Yes.

01:51:38.600 Yeah,

01:51:39.040 that's the

01:51:39.460 best possible

01:51:40.860 mask for

01:51:41.500 like a

01:51:41.960 sadistic hatred,

01:51:42.980 that's for

01:51:43.380 sure.

01:51:43.860 Yeah.

01:51:45.160 So...

01:51:46.640 Are you

01:51:47.240 speaking anywhere?

01:51:48.340 Like,

01:51:48.760 do you have

01:51:49.860 the opportunity

01:51:50.400 to speak

01:51:50.940 publicly?

01:51:52.320 Well,

01:51:52.820 I have been

01:51:53.220 cancelled from

01:51:54.040 many universities

01:51:55.020 because you

01:51:56.000 probably now

01:51:56.520 understand why.

01:51:58.620 Yeah,

01:51:59.100 I'd say so.

01:52:00.240 But I'm

01:52:00.960 okay with that,

01:52:01.680 you know,

01:52:01.860 I'm not afraid

01:52:02.380 of being

01:52:02.620 cancelled.

01:52:03.080 I've been

01:52:03.660 cancelled by

01:52:04.200 my own

01:52:04.600 family,

01:52:04.980 by my

01:52:05.240 own people.

01:52:05.840 So when

01:52:06.380 I have

01:52:07.340 American

01:52:09.160 campuses or

01:52:10.300 American

01:52:10.780 universities

01:52:11.380 cancelling me,

01:52:12.640 I'm not

01:52:13.360 affected,

01:52:14.320 like I don't

01:52:14.720 feel ashamed

01:52:16.100 that,

01:52:17.420 oh my God,

01:52:17.980 you know,

01:52:18.160 this is a threat

01:52:18.680 to my career.

01:52:19.540 I never intend

01:52:20.440 to make a career,

01:52:21.340 you know,

01:52:21.580 and I don't care

01:52:22.280 about my public

01:52:22.960 image as much

01:52:23.680 as I care about

01:52:24.960 where do I

01:52:25.660 stand morally

01:52:26.720 and am I at

01:52:27.940 peace with myself

01:52:28.740 or not.

01:52:29.160 But anyway,

01:52:29.540 I find my

01:52:32.260 way to speak

01:52:33.200 to the

01:52:33.920 students and

01:52:34.620 I challenge

01:52:35.140 them.

01:52:35.780 Yesterday we

01:52:36.480 had a

01:52:36.740 debate.

01:52:39.180 I thought

01:52:39.960 I've been

01:52:41.740 trying to

01:52:42.480 get the

01:52:43.380 pro-Palestine

01:52:44.520 advocates,

01:52:45.900 anyone,

01:52:46.900 to an

01:52:48.600 open debate.

01:52:49.680 Let's go,

01:52:50.200 let's talk

01:52:50.620 about the

01:52:51.020 thing.

01:52:51.320 This is the

01:52:51.780 way of the

01:52:52.320 West,

01:52:52.920 dialogue.

01:52:54.120 We cannot

01:52:54.600 be clashing

01:52:55.340 like this,

01:52:55.860 inciting for

01:52:56.560 violence, 0.99

01:52:57.860 harassing Jewish 1.00

01:52:58.800 people, 0.99

01:52:59.400 harassing

01:52:59.780 successful

01:53:00.360 people,

01:53:01.360 bringing the

01:53:02.400 Hamas nightmare 0.95

01:53:03.500 into the

01:53:04.800 American soil,

01:53:06.040 globalizing the

01:53:07.100 intifada,

01:53:07.820 globalizing the

01:53:08.820 chaos.

01:53:09.420 Well,

01:53:09.580 these are very

01:53:10.200 dangerous terms

01:53:11.060 that we don't

01:53:11.660 know what we're

01:53:12.240 talking about.

01:53:13.100 From the river

01:53:13.740 to the sea.

01:53:14.520 They don't

01:53:14.900 understand that

01:53:15.920 back in 1987

01:53:17.920 when people

01:53:18.720 start chanting

01:53:19.520 from the river

01:53:20.120 to the sea,

01:53:21.020 violence followed

01:53:21.900 just shortly

01:53:22.860 after that.

01:53:23.860 And this is my

01:53:24.620 childhood trauma.

01:53:25.620 And when I saw

01:53:26.300 the people

01:53:26.940 chanting from

01:53:28.400 the river to

01:53:29.180 the sea,

01:53:29.520 I knew we

01:53:29.960 were in

01:53:30.360 trouble.

01:53:32.020 So this is

01:53:32.820 why I tried

01:53:33.980 to counter

01:53:35.800 this force.

01:53:38.040 But nobody

01:53:38.960 wants to

01:53:39.340 listen.

01:53:40.440 So I thought

01:53:40.940 to myself,

01:53:41.240 Yeah,

01:53:41.360 well,

01:53:41.500 that narrative,

01:53:42.360 that underlying

01:53:42.860 narrative of

01:53:43.660 victim,

01:53:44.100 victimizer,

01:53:44.760 that's very

01:53:45.300 intractable.

01:53:46.260 It's a very

01:53:46.760 difficult thing

01:53:47.320 to move.

01:53:47.960 It's so

01:53:48.440 morally

01:53:48.760 attractive.

01:53:49.980 Well,

01:53:50.200 and try to

01:53:50.660 get them out

01:53:51.160 of their

01:53:51.380 comfort,

01:53:52.460 out of their

01:53:53.020 convenient truth,

01:53:54.720 and they 0.97

01:53:55.080 will crucify 1.00

01:53:55.760 you. 1.00

01:53:56.380 This is

01:53:56.660 the price

01:53:57.140 you pay.

01:53:58.600 So

01:53:58.880 practically,

01:54:00.540 just two

01:54:02.000 days ago,

01:54:03.300 we had

01:54:04.120 a debate.

01:54:06.340 I had

01:54:07.020 to pay

01:54:07.340 somebody

01:54:07.840 $20,000

01:54:11.360 from my

01:54:13.500 pocket

01:54:13.880 to debate

01:54:15.540 me on

01:54:16.520 the topic

01:54:16.940 because no

01:54:17.640 one else

01:54:18.360 agreed to

01:54:20.580 where was

01:54:21.360 that debate?

01:54:22.180 Berkeley

01:54:22.620 University.

01:54:23.740 And that's

01:54:24.060 one of the

01:54:24.460 most respectful

01:54:25.220 educational

01:54:26.880 institutions

01:54:27.660 that they

01:54:28.280 cannot even

01:54:28.900 host a

01:54:29.720 debate on

01:54:30.420 their own.

01:54:31.740 A debater

01:54:32.580 had to pay

01:54:33.120 from his

01:54:33.520 own pocket

01:54:34.040 to bring

01:54:34.420 his opponent

01:54:35.020 to have

01:54:35.420 a discussion.

01:54:36.940 And the

01:54:37.420 funny thing

01:54:38.120 that this

01:54:38.600 guy acts

01:54:39.680 like a

01:54:40.200 giant outside

01:54:41.680 of the

01:54:42.200 debate,

01:54:42.640 like when

01:54:42.900 you see

01:54:43.200 him at

01:54:43.460 Jazeera,

01:54:43.760 he's

01:54:43.900 a Jazeera

01:54:44.420 host and

01:54:46.500 was a

01:54:46.880 CNN anchor.

01:54:48.680 Delivered

01:54:49.240 the speech

01:54:49.620 to the

01:54:49.940 United

01:54:50.180 Nation

01:54:50.500 and called

01:54:51.080 from a

01:54:52.160 United

01:54:52.460 Nation

01:54:53.000 podium from

01:54:54.240 the river

01:54:54.640 to the

01:54:55.040 sea.

01:54:56.920 But when

01:54:57.540 he came

01:54:57.860 to the

01:54:58.120 debate,

01:54:58.700 he agreed

01:54:59.360 with 90%

01:55:00.500 of the

01:55:00.840 things that

01:55:01.180 I was

01:55:01.460 saying.

01:55:01.720 I was

01:55:01.840 like,

01:55:03.020 then who

01:55:05.900 are you?

01:55:07.160 That you're

01:55:07.560 outside,

01:55:08.180 you know,

01:55:08.420 just this

01:55:09.460 outrageous

01:55:10.500 anti-Zionist, 0.82

01:55:13.660 anti-Israel,

01:55:14.720 pro-Palestine,

01:55:15.800 and all of

01:55:16.440 a sudden

01:55:16.780 here,

01:55:18.120 you're just

01:55:18.480 chickened

01:55:18.880 out.

01:55:19.160 and I

01:55:20.620 cannot

01:55:20.780 find a

01:55:21.320 debate,

01:55:21.680 like a

01:55:21.900 decent

01:55:22.140 debate,

01:55:22.600 I've been

01:55:23.060 calling

01:55:23.400 them out,

01:55:24.120 you know,

01:55:24.380 come debate

01:55:24.920 me,

01:55:25.100 let's talk

01:55:25.440 about this.

01:55:26.760 This is

01:55:27.220 not a

01:55:27.800 joke.

01:55:29.120 Children

01:55:29.560 are dying.

01:55:31.380 This is

01:55:31.740 not a

01:55:32.040 political

01:55:32.300 stand,

01:55:32.960 this is

01:55:33.200 not a

01:55:33.480 career.

01:55:34.280 I'm

01:55:34.460 not your

01:55:34.820 typical

01:55:35.300 expert

01:55:36.160 coming on

01:55:36.740 the

01:55:36.880 topic.

01:55:38.300 You get

01:55:39.100 in the

01:55:39.480 way

01:55:39.920 where I'm

01:55:41.740 trying to

01:55:42.260 stop the

01:55:42.780 death of

01:55:43.760 innocent

01:55:44.700 children,

01:55:46.120 protect them

01:55:46.700 from predators

01:55:47.440 that have

01:55:47.920 been killing

01:55:49.020 them for 1.00

01:55:49.440 70 years

01:55:50.560 by the

01:55:51.320 name of

01:55:51.760 Palestine.

01:55:53.460 You get

01:55:53.800 in my

01:55:54.080 way,

01:55:54.280 I destroy 1.00

01:55:54.780 you if 1.00

01:55:55.400 necessary.

01:55:57.420 So I'm

01:55:58.120 not politically

01:55:59.080 correct,

01:55:59.660 I cannot

01:56:00.080 be,

01:56:00.560 and I

01:56:00.780 don't care

01:56:01.260 if you

01:56:01.660 cancel me

01:56:02.420 or not,

01:56:03.000 and I'm

01:56:03.340 not in a

01:56:03.780 position even

01:56:04.400 to reason

01:56:06.220 with you.

01:56:07.100 We are at

01:56:07.720 war right

01:56:08.280 now,

01:56:08.620 it's finished,

01:56:09.300 we can talk

01:56:09.820 about it

01:56:10.240 later,

01:56:11.580 but it

01:56:12.080 breaks my

01:56:12.700 heart.

01:56:14.540 America is

01:56:15.280 my country

01:56:15.800 now.

01:56:16.700 And I

01:56:17.300 have

01:56:17.480 responsibility

01:56:18.020 towards the

01:56:18.680 people that

01:56:20.480 we don't

01:56:20.920 want to

01:56:21.320 bring the

01:56:21.740 intifada

01:56:22.160 here.

01:56:22.840 We don't

01:56:23.320 want to

01:56:23.660 globalize

01:56:24.220 the

01:56:24.360 intifada.

01:56:25.080 In fact,

01:56:25.480 we want

01:56:25.860 to de-globalize

01:56:27.240 it.

01:56:27.720 We want

01:56:28.180 to localize

01:56:29.440 it.

01:56:30.160 We want

01:56:30.620 to cut

01:56:31.060 all the

01:56:32.060 foreign

01:56:33.780 entities that

01:56:34.900 have been

01:56:35.160 trying to

01:56:35.740 take advantage

01:56:36.440 of this

01:56:37.400 conflict.

01:56:39.720 And we

01:56:40.420 have to

01:56:40.780 give the

01:56:41.120 power to

01:56:42.160 the people,

01:56:43.240 to the

01:56:43.620 Arabs.

01:56:44.420 They are

01:56:44.760 Arabs.

01:56:45.600 They are

01:56:45.800 not

01:56:46.000 Palestinians.

01:56:47.260 So please

01:56:47.820 help me

01:56:48.300 with this.

01:56:48.700 This is

01:56:48.920 what I've

01:56:49.240 been trying

01:56:49.660 to spread,

01:56:50.640 that there

01:56:50.840 is no

01:56:51.080 such a

01:56:51.400 thing as

01:56:51.800 Palestine.

01:56:52.980 Palestinian

01:56:53.460 is a

01:56:54.000 political

01:56:54.320 identity.

01:56:54.900 It's a 0.98

01:56:55.300 corrupt 0.98

01:56:55.660 one, a 0.98

01:56:56.260 colonial

01:56:56.760 one.

01:56:57.520 It's

01:56:57.740 actually

01:56:58.000 very

01:56:58.360 disrespectful

01:56:58.980 for the 0.99

01:56:59.660 Arabs who 0.68

01:57:00.140 were born

01:57:00.640 in that

01:57:01.140 region to

01:57:01.880 call themselves

01:57:02.540 after a

01:57:03.740 colonial

01:57:04.260 entity and

01:57:05.940 adapt it as

01:57:06.980 a national

01:57:07.640 identity.

01:57:08.440 It's just

01:57:08.880 absurd.

01:57:10.380 This is

01:57:10.700 why I don't

01:57:11.240 use the

01:57:11.800 term for

01:57:12.540 myself.

01:57:13.420 No, keep 0.96

01:57:14.500 them Arabs. 0.80

01:57:15.020 They were

01:57:15.560 born there.

01:57:16.140 They have

01:57:16.480 the birth

01:57:17.000 right to

01:57:17.360 be there.

01:57:18.760 But what

01:57:19.100 they need,

01:57:19.580 they don't

01:57:19.880 need a

01:57:20.220 state.

01:57:21.300 They need

01:57:21.680 a police

01:57:22.080 force.

01:57:22.940 They need

01:57:23.300 education.

01:57:24.200 They need

01:57:24.600 economy.

01:57:26.000 They need

01:57:26.720 decent leadership

01:57:27.620 that works

01:57:28.180 towards building

01:57:28.980 a nation.

01:57:29.580 They need

01:57:30.460 a civil

01:57:30.880 constitution.

01:57:32.500 They need

01:57:32.900 to be

01:57:33.200 friends with

01:57:33.800 Israel and

01:57:34.660 drop their 1.00

01:57:35.380 stupid idea 1.00

01:57:36.260 of destroying 1.00

01:57:36.800 Israel because 1.00

01:57:37.360 Israel is

01:57:37.840 going nowhere.

01:57:39.840 If they

01:57:40.660 cannot see

01:57:41.380 Israel as

01:57:42.160 just the

01:57:42.980 same way

01:57:43.420 they see

01:57:43.880 themselves,

01:57:45.140 when they

01:57:45.500 look at an

01:57:46.020 Israeli child,

01:57:47.580 like they

01:57:48.020 see them as

01:57:48.860 their own

01:57:49.360 child,

01:57:50.720 then we

01:57:51.400 have a

01:57:51.720 problem.

01:57:52.920 We cannot

01:57:53.300 justify the

01:57:54.040 killing of 0.94

01:57:54.620 Jewish 1.00

01:57:54.900 children because

01:57:55.700 they are

01:57:56.060 Jewish.

01:57:56.500 this is

01:57:58.960 where I

01:57:59.360 need this

01:58:00.140 to be.

01:58:06.860 And I

01:58:07.540 don't want

01:58:07.980 this whole

01:58:08.680 nationalism,

01:58:09.460 this whole

01:58:09.800 Palestine.

01:58:10.580 So, of

01:58:11.420 course, when

01:58:11.960 I see now

01:58:12.620 globalizing the

01:58:13.500 issue,

01:58:14.340 bringing the

01:58:14.860 states and

01:58:15.800 making

01:58:17.140 free,

01:58:18.160 free Palestine,

01:58:19.400 what is,

01:58:20.500 well, your

01:58:20.880 Palestine is 0.96

01:58:21.620 not a hostage

01:58:22.180 in my

01:58:22.580 basement.

01:58:23.240 Stop saying

01:58:23.720 free, free

01:58:24.220 Palestine.

01:58:25.340 You know,

01:58:25.540 decent human

01:58:26.160 beings, decent

01:58:26.860 Americans,

01:58:27.560 will say

01:58:27.780 free the

01:58:28.180 hostages,

01:58:29.620 not tear

01:58:30.160 down the

01:58:30.820 posters of

01:58:31.940 hostages,

01:58:32.680 you know,

01:58:32.880 not even

01:58:33.280 allowing their

01:58:34.000 families to

01:58:34.640 represent their

01:58:35.280 case in

01:58:36.220 the land

01:58:37.220 of the

01:58:37.660 free.

01:58:40.080 And what

01:58:40.920 they want

01:58:41.240 to free?

01:58:41.680 They want

01:58:41.940 to free a

01:58:43.240 concept, a

01:58:44.440 dangerous

01:58:44.820 political

01:58:45.280 concept that

01:58:46.380 actually depends

01:58:47.620 on the

01:58:48.060 destruction of

01:58:49.060 order.

01:58:51.620 At the

01:58:52.260 expense of

01:58:52.860 children, at

01:58:53.420 the expense of

01:58:54.120 generations, at

01:58:54.860 the expense of

01:58:55.580 individuality,

01:58:57.600 who are we?

01:58:59.160 You know, we

01:58:59.620 are Americans.

01:59:00.760 I mean, not

01:59:01.660 only Americans,

01:59:02.420 anybody in the

01:59:03.180 West, this is

01:59:03.780 our value

01:59:04.320 system.

01:59:05.900 So this is

01:59:06.320 where it gets

01:59:06.920 really, as

01:59:08.000 you see, like I

01:59:08.880 speak about it

01:59:09.740 with lots of

01:59:10.860 strong emotions

01:59:11.700 because there is

01:59:12.360 no way, there is

01:59:13.200 no other medium

01:59:14.240 for me.

01:59:14.740 What's happening

01:59:15.340 is absurd, not

01:59:16.980 only on the

01:59:17.660 American campuses.

01:59:19.400 Before you say

01:59:20.120 free Palestine,

01:59:21.060 at what expense?

01:59:22.220 At the expense of

01:59:22.980 Israel, you want 0.99

01:59:23.660 ethnic cleansing

01:59:24.420 from the river

01:59:25.020 to the sea so

01:59:25.780 this hypothetical

01:59:27.320 political entity

01:59:28.740 would take place

01:59:30.200 in reality?

01:59:32.040 And who's

01:59:33.000 going to pay

01:59:33.460 the price?

01:59:35.160 The Palestinian

01:59:36.040 children and

01:59:36.800 for how long?

01:59:37.720 We have been

01:59:38.560 paying this

01:59:39.160 price for 70

01:59:40.040 years and

01:59:41.440 all we

01:59:43.880 received in

01:59:44.520 return,

01:59:45.600 suffering,

01:59:46.360 pain,

01:59:46.980 confusion,

01:59:47.500 and a

01:59:49.980 minority of

01:59:52.120 Khan

01:59:52.560 artists

01:59:53.280 became

01:59:54.140 billionaires.

01:59:55.120 Yasser Arafat

01:59:55.800 had $9 billion

01:59:56.700 in his bank

01:59:57.600 account before

01:59:58.240 he died and

01:59:58.900 it vanished

01:59:59.700 because his

02:00:01.180 wife stole it 1.00

02:00:02.080 after she 0.97

02:00:02.920 killed him.

02:00:04.320 And this is 0.96

02:00:04.660 the first time

02:00:05.200 I see it

02:00:05.760 in public.

02:00:07.160 Yes, after

02:00:07.760 his wife

02:00:08.520 unplugged

02:00:09.820 the life

02:00:10.220 support and

02:00:10.900 he died.

02:00:11.600 Even the

02:00:11.960 Palestinian people

02:00:12.660 don't know

02:00:13.200 this.

02:00:14.040 And let them

02:00:14.480 go figure.

02:00:16.120 His wife

02:00:17.000 is his 0.95

02:00:17.420 killer.

02:00:19.040 So we're 0.63

02:00:20.020 talking about

02:00:20.820 such corruption

02:00:22.980 and fight

02:00:23.760 for money

02:00:24.200 where the

02:00:25.040 first lady 0.96

02:00:25.660 is killing 1.00

02:00:26.160 the father 0.99

02:00:27.220 of the

02:00:27.820 nation.

02:00:29.280 And in

02:00:29.900 the meantime 0.99

02:00:30.520 screwing 0.70

02:00:32.580 a Mossad

02:00:34.660 agent.

02:00:35.900 So I'm

02:00:37.760 done with

02:00:38.400 this.

02:00:39.080 I don't

02:00:39.360 want to

02:00:39.620 see more 0.98

02:00:40.180 children die 0.69

02:00:40.740 and I

02:00:41.060 don't care

02:00:41.620 for the 0.79

02:00:43.220 Palestinian

02:00:46.460 entity.

02:00:47.940 All right,

02:00:48.380 sir.

02:00:49.760 Thank you.

02:00:50.800 We'll pick

02:00:51.300 this up on

02:00:51.940 the Daily

02:00:52.500 Wire Plus

02:00:53.060 side for

02:00:53.740 everybody

02:00:54.060 watching and

02:00:54.640 listening.

02:00:55.780 Thank you

02:00:56.560 very much

02:00:57.000 for talking

02:00:57.780 to me

02:00:58.020 today.

02:00:59.240 Thank you

02:00:59.680 all for

02:01:00.280 your attention

02:01:02.060 and as I

02:01:04.280 said, if you

02:01:05.020 want to join

02:01:05.440 us on the

02:01:05.880 Daily Wire

02:01:06.240 Plus side to

02:01:07.360 conclude this

02:01:07.860 conversation,

02:01:08.660 please feel

02:01:09.140 more than

02:01:09.500 welcome to

02:01:09.960 do so.

02:01:13.220 What's it

02:01:22.960 like to

02:01:23.320 trade crypto

02:01:23.900 on Kraken?

02:01:24.780 Let's say

02:01:25.380 I'm in a

02:01:25.740 state-of-the-art

02:01:26.200 gym surrounded 1.00

02:01:26.800 by powerful

02:01:27.400 looking machines.

02:01:28.720 Do I head

02:01:29.160 straight for

02:01:29.640 the squat

02:01:30.000 rack?

02:01:30.660 I could,

02:01:31.300 but this

02:01:31.580 gym has

02:01:31.980 options like

02:01:32.700 trainers,

02:01:33.320 fitness pros,

02:01:34.120 spotters to

02:01:34.540 back me up.

02:01:35.660 That's

02:01:36.000 crypto on

02:01:36.460 Kraken,

02:01:37.000 powerful

02:01:37.420 crypto tools

02:01:38.120 backed by

02:01:38.540 24-7 support

02:01:39.560 and multi-layered

02:01:40.260 security.

02:01:41.000 Go to

02:01:41.200 kraken.com

02:01:41.920 and see

02:01:42.380 what crypto

02:01:42.860 can be.

02:01:44.340 Not investment

02:01:44.680 advice.

02:01:45.040 Crypto trading

02:01:45.320 involves risk

02:01:45.680 of loss.

02:01:46.080 Seek kraken.com

02:01:46.660 slash legal

02:01:47.020 slash ca-pru

02:01:48.000 dash disclaimer

02:01:48.440 for info on

02:01:48.900 Kraken's undertaking

02:01:49.400 to register in

02:01:49.840 Canada.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - April 25, 2024

443. The Brutal Reality of the Middle East ｜ Mosab Hassan Yousef

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