The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 448. Alternative Walk of Fame ｜ Brett Cooper

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

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00:00:57.420 Hello, everybody. I'm talking today to Brett Cooper, a YouTube phenomenon, but in the prepared manner that many people who are explosively successful are prepared.

00:01:23.740 Brett started acting when she was very young. She was very dedicated to her pursuit of her artistic career.

00:01:33.980 She was aided in that by the efforts of her mother, and so she had that working for her.

00:01:38.820 But by the time she was 10, she had a pretty decent CV on the acting side behind her.

00:01:44.960 She spent a fair bit of time in Hollywood, expanding her abilities, protected from whatever toxicity that environment might offer by the aforementioned commitment of her mother.

00:01:59.040 And then she got a stellar opportunity, but also had set that up with Daily Wire.

00:02:05.480 She had worked with Dennis Prager and some other conservative organizations, making short-form social media content and learning how to do that, and that's a real skill in and of itself.

00:02:16.460 And got the opportunity to expand that into something of longer form with Daily Wire.

00:02:23.160 I was hesitant and afraid about that, felt at 19 because that's when the offer came in that perhaps that was beyond her, but took the plunge and has produced, out of whole cloth, a spectacularly successful YouTube channel.

00:02:40.540 And with about four and a half million subscribers, that's been built up in the short span of a couple of years, and also has a plethora of exciting acting opportunities arrayed in front of her as a consequence of her partnership with the Daily Wire.

00:02:56.360 And so, join us for all that.

00:02:59.300 So, you've made a big splash in recent years.

00:03:02.480 That's what I've been told.

00:03:03.860 Yeah.

00:03:04.380 Yeah.

00:03:05.060 Why?

00:03:05.540 Why do you think that is?

00:03:06.860 What are you doing that's working?

00:03:11.860 I think I'm filling a niche that I myself wanted and that I was lacking.

00:03:19.840 Growing up, I didn't have influences online that I felt like spoke to me, that shared my values like a common young person with more traditional values.

00:03:33.680 I did not see that, especially growing up in Hollywood.

00:03:35.600 I was not surrounded by that whatsoever.

00:03:39.300 And so, when we created the common section when I came to Daily Wire, I wanted to reach young people in general, but I specifically wanted to talk to young women.

00:03:46.500 Yeah?

00:03:46.960 And is that fundamentally your audience?

00:03:49.520 No, it's growing.

00:03:50.200 It's becoming more female-oriented, but it's always been more male-dominant.

00:03:55.040 I think that's just because more young men are on YouTube.

00:03:57.600 Yeah, well, that's a big thing to fight against, so to speak.

00:04:00.440 I mean, I think the last time I looked, which is a couple of years ago, like YouTube was 80% male-dominated.

00:04:06.040 So, it's hard to not have a majority male audience.

00:04:10.000 But my female audience continues to grow. 0.87

00:04:11.900 And when I meet fans in public, when any member of my audience comes up to me, obviously I'm thrilled to meet all of them, and they're always such kind and interesting people, and they always, you know, share interesting stories.

00:04:26.280 But the people that speak to me the most are the young women, where I see myself in them.

00:04:31.960 Yeah, and what are they telling you?

00:04:34.000 They thank me for sharing their values on such a public platform.

00:04:40.520 They thank me for showing that it does not have to be scary to espouse common sense and traditional values.

00:04:50.140 They say, you feel like a big sister that I never had, or like a little sister, or you give me hope for my daughters.

00:04:56.280 And it's incredibly touching.

00:04:59.500 I was just talking about it while I was getting my makeup done.

00:05:02.360 But I am incredibly blessed and incredibly grateful to have been given the platform that I have.

00:05:08.780 Right, right, right.

00:05:10.000 I'm honored.

00:05:11.120 So, when you grew up in Hollywood, let's talk about that a little bit.

00:05:15.940 I understand that you were emancipated at the age of 15 to pursue acting.

00:05:20.940 Okay, so let's start with that.

00:05:22.460 I don't think we have to go any earlier than that.

00:05:26.280 Now, was that the point at which you moved to Hollywood?

00:05:29.600 No, I moved to Hollywood when I was 10.

00:05:33.820 When you were 10?

00:05:34.820 From where?

00:05:35.840 From Chattanooga, Tennessee.

00:05:37.800 Oh, yeah.

00:05:39.340 Okay, then I guess you have to start.

00:05:41.840 I have to go back a little earlier?

00:05:42.800 Well, I would say so.

00:05:44.080 How was it that you, and I presume your family, decided that it was a good idea to move from Chattanooga, Tennessee to Hollywood?

00:05:52.420 Okay.

00:05:52.600 Like, what was behind that?

00:05:55.540 The short of it, and I'll get into the long of it, but the short of it was me.

00:05:59.060 It's, I felt like I needed to perform like I needed to breathe.

00:06:04.860 I loved telling stories.

00:06:06.780 I loved being on stage, and...

00:06:09.580 And you had been on stage in Tennessee?

00:06:11.500 Yes, at a community theater.

00:06:12.840 Oh, yeah.

00:06:13.160 Okay.

00:06:13.500 I, my, the first production that I ever did, and I started in theater, love musical theater, was being a munchkin in my brother's high school production of The Wiz.

00:06:22.820 And they needed a couple of, like, younger siblings to get up on stage, do a little munchkin dance, and be in this high school production.

00:06:28.880 Mm-hmm.

00:06:29.420 One of my mom's friends, whose children also went to this private school, said, you know, Brett's six, five, would she like to come and be in this?

00:06:37.120 I was terrified.

00:06:38.920 I was deathly shy.

00:06:40.540 My, one of my brothers had passed away the year prior.

00:06:43.860 And it had absolutely wrecked my family.

00:06:46.360 Just absolutely cracked us open.

00:06:48.280 And I was reeling from that.

00:06:52.660 My family dynamic was completely different, and I just shut down.

00:06:56.260 And did not want to get on stage.

00:06:58.080 Had no interest in doing it.

00:06:59.380 I remember we were doing construction on our house in Chattanooga, and I would hide in, like, a credenza like that.

00:07:04.080 And I would get in cabinets and hide.

00:07:06.060 I was just like, I don't want to be seen.

00:07:07.020 Don't want to be heard.

00:07:08.580 And my mom was noticing that.

00:07:10.480 It was making a conscious effort to push me.

00:07:13.180 Go in and speak to somebody in a gas station by yourself.

00:07:15.580 Here's five dollars.

00:07:16.340 Go buy a candy bar.

00:07:18.060 And so when I was just absolutely, I don't want to get on stage.

00:07:21.220 I don't want to do this.

00:07:21.660 She was like, well, no, I think that this is something that you should do if you're afraid of it.

00:07:25.600 And I got on stage, and I've, like, never felt that way.

00:07:29.460 And she said that me being on stage, I just came alive.

00:07:33.460 And that's how I felt, even at six years old.

00:07:35.140 And that was at six?

00:07:36.080 That was at six.

00:07:36.540 Okay.

00:07:36.860 And so what did you, what performances did you undertake after that?

00:07:40.800 How did that develop?

00:07:41.540 I did multiple at that high school.

00:07:44.560 Then I started doing community theater productions.

00:07:46.800 And then I was begging my mom to do more.

00:07:48.820 I was like, let me find other things.

00:07:50.180 Can I do a community theater production here?

00:07:51.960 She was originally from Atlanta, and Atlanta was two hours away.

00:07:55.040 Could I go do Annie?

00:07:56.640 Annie is being, you know, produced in Georgia.

00:07:59.960 Can I, can we drive out there and I'll audition?

00:08:01.540 Because I really want to play, you know, the little orphan Molly in Annie.

00:08:04.740 Um, the Atlanta Symphony and Opera, I was, uh, I started doing, like, singing lessons.

00:08:09.900 They were doing La Boheme and had a children's choir.

00:08:12.240 Please let me go audition for this.

00:08:13.740 And so my mom would put me in the car, and we would drive two hours, and she would sit

00:08:19.320 outside while I would be in rehearsals and dance classes.

00:08:22.360 And I just came alive, and there was nothing that I loved more.

00:08:26.180 And so-

00:08:26.620 Why did you like performing?

00:08:27.720 What did it do for you?

00:08:29.720 It gave me, it gave me an outlet to express things I didn't feel comfortable with.

00:08:34.740 Expressing at all.

00:08:36.760 What kind of things?

00:08:42.140 I think it was, it was less of a specific emotion, and it was more of, I was just able

00:08:46.280 to be completely, openly me.

00:08:49.380 I was able to put myself in other people's shoes.

00:08:52.300 It's like that Atticus Finch quote, where, you know, you get to put on somebody else's

00:08:55.640 shoes and walk a while, not walk a mile on them, or what he says in film Mockingbird.

00:08:59.280 It gave me the opportunity to do that, to put myself in character circumstances that

00:09:11.080 were completely unlike my own.

00:09:12.320 It was an escape in a lot of ways.

00:09:14.180 Well, it's play.

00:09:15.220 It is.

00:09:16.100 You know what I mean?

00:09:16.620 Kids love to play.

00:09:17.960 Yeah.

00:09:18.100 And even though we don't really, like, let them anymore, that's why they, I think that's

00:09:24.040 why they play so intensely when they go off to university.

00:09:26.880 I'm sure.

00:09:27.420 And switch roles and transform identities.

00:09:29.960 Sure.

00:09:30.840 Yeah, I think most of it's repressed play.

00:09:33.020 Not most of it.

00:09:33.900 Much of it is repressed play.

00:09:35.660 Yeah.

00:09:35.900 Well, you have to play a lot of roles before you find your part.

00:09:39.800 Yeah.

00:09:40.120 Right?

00:09:40.300 And that's what kids are doing.

00:09:41.680 That's what they should be doing between the ages of two and a half and, like, well,

00:09:48.740 that really intense play period lasts probably till around 10.

00:09:54.620 But then there are variants of it in adolescence as well, as people find their way and find their

00:10:00.480 role.

00:10:00.840 And what you were doing was a very structured variant of that.

00:10:07.560 And I think I needed that because so much of it was suppressed at home.

00:10:11.760 I was, I think I was constantly trying to make myself as small as possible to not rock

00:10:16.440 the boat my entire life.

00:10:18.740 Because of things, because of how upset things had become?

00:10:22.800 Yes.

00:10:23.300 And in the aftermath, particularly?

00:10:24.940 Yes, after my brother's death.

00:10:26.640 My parents, their relationship was not great from the beginning.

00:10:29.300 And they stayed together for me.

00:10:31.020 My brothers are all older than me.

00:10:32.580 And so that, the death in the family just broke that open even more.

00:10:37.780 And so I, and I knew from a very young age, I was very self-aware.

00:10:41.060 I knew that they were staying together for me.

00:10:43.040 It was very uncomfortable.

00:10:44.520 And I just wanted to cause as few problems as possible.

00:10:49.220 I see.

00:10:49.400 And ironically, that turned into then me traveling around the country doing theater.

00:10:53.500 Causing problems constantly.

00:10:54.080 Causing problems, logistical problems.

00:10:55.960 Yeah, right, right.

00:10:56.820 But those are, those are, you know, those are better problems than pointless and horrible

00:11:01.660 problems.

00:11:02.260 Yeah, they were fun problems.

00:11:03.420 They were adventurous.

00:11:04.340 Okay.

00:11:04.660 So you accrued quite a lot of experience by the time you were 10.

00:11:08.500 Yes.

00:11:08.860 All right.

00:11:09.180 And then so your family up and moved to?

00:11:12.520 My mom and I did.

00:11:13.200 Your mom and you did.

00:11:14.920 My parents' relationship, I would say, was already on the fritz, like I said.

00:11:18.600 And I had been working in New York a little bit while I was nine or 10.

00:11:24.120 And I actually don't know if I've ever told this story on a podcast before, but I desperately

00:11:29.420 wanted to play Jane Banks in Mary Poppins.

00:11:32.300 And it was a musical that was on Broadway in the early 2000s, desperately.

00:11:36.240 And the show had been running for a couple of years.

00:11:38.660 And I would sit on my mom's big desktop computer and I would avidly watch YouTube videos of all

00:11:43.540 the girls who were playing Jane Banks.

00:11:45.040 This, you know, 12-year-old character.

00:11:46.320 And I learned who their managers were and who their agents were.

00:11:49.960 And there was one guy and he managed four of the different girls who had played Jane

00:11:55.560 Banks over the course of three years.

00:11:57.320 I wrote him a letter, a handwritten letter.

00:11:59.380 And I said, my name is Brett Cooper.

00:12:01.040 I love performing.

00:12:02.360 These are all the things I've done.

00:12:03.620 I'm attached to my resume.

00:12:04.700 My biggest dream is to play Jane Banks.

00:12:06.280 And then I painted a photo of me as Jane Banks on Broadway and I mailed it to him.

00:12:11.140 And then I got an email back somehow and brought me out to New York and I auditioned there.

00:12:16.320 And so then I started working more in the big leagues, I would say.

00:12:19.500 And so I started auditioning for Broadway shows, doing workshops at Broadway shows.

00:12:24.700 And...

00:12:25.060 How old were you then?

00:12:26.220 Nine.

00:12:26.860 Nine.

00:12:27.240 Okay.

00:12:27.660 Okay.

00:12:27.960 So this is still prior to the move.

00:12:29.760 Yes, prior to the move.

00:12:30.380 So this is in New York.

00:12:31.520 So you did all that research when you were, what, eight?

00:12:33.640 Yeah, eight and nine.

00:12:34.860 Hmm.

00:12:35.960 And I, it was completely self-directed.

00:12:39.200 Hmm.

00:12:40.020 And I hit my growth spurt very young.

00:12:42.160 And on Broadway, if you are under the age of 18 and you're playing a children's role,

00:12:47.480 if you're playing a 12-year-old, an 8-year-old, a 15-year-old, they want you under a certain

00:12:51.180 height limit.

00:12:51.580 So the people in the back of the house can distinguish an adult from a child on stage.

00:12:57.460 And so I think for Jane Banks, the specific role, and for most of the young roles at that

00:13:01.500 time, it was 4-11.

00:13:03.020 And I had auditioned for Jane Banks time and time again, the national tour, the Broadway

00:13:07.580 show.

00:13:08.120 Somebody's, you know, a girl is being replaced because, you know, you have like a six-month

00:13:11.500 contract.

00:13:12.900 And finally got to one where it seemed like it was going to happen.

00:13:15.920 I was pinned and they said, come back in two months, it's going to be you and a few

00:13:18.820 other girls. 0.98

00:13:19.840 Over that two months, I hit the biggest growth spurt of my life.

00:13:23.180 Came back and I was way too tall.

00:13:25.100 And I remember sitting up there and they literally measure you before you can go in

00:13:28.960 and audition.

00:13:29.440 And I was like, let me shrink myself as much as possible.

00:13:32.320 That's hard.

00:13:32.880 Yeah.

00:13:33.800 And they said, no, we're not going to hire you.

00:13:36.920 Not because of my talent or anything like that, but you are just too tall.

00:13:40.740 Something you cannot.

00:13:41.640 Sizeism, I would say.

00:13:42.580 Yes, yeah, exactly.

00:13:43.540 You were a victim.

00:13:44.400 I was a victim of sizeism at nine years old.

00:13:47.340 That's right, yeah.

00:13:48.460 And it was heartbreaking, just crushing at nine years old.

00:13:51.020 And one of my best friends at the time got the role of Michael Banks.

00:13:54.540 So he played, he was playing Jane Banks, his brother.

00:13:56.780 And it was crushing because I saw him, you know, traveling around the country on the

00:14:00.640 national tour.

00:14:02.500 And my management team, I ended up signing with the guy who had represented all of those

00:14:07.600 actresses, was with him for 10 plus years, adore him.

00:14:11.500 He said, you basically can wait until you turn 18 and then you can play adult roles or

00:14:16.960 you can go to Los Angeles and you can do film on TV.

00:14:19.740 My mom said, absolutely not.

00:14:20.980 She was originally born in California.

00:14:22.560 My brothers were all born in California.

00:14:23.960 She said, I'm not going back.

00:14:25.320 That industry, specifically film and television, is disgusting.

00:14:28.340 I don't want my child in it.

00:14:29.200 And I just begged, begged, like, this is all I want to do.

00:14:33.780 And I was homeschooled at the time already just for academic reasons.

00:14:37.020 And I basically just laid it out for her.

00:14:39.660 And I said, we have the flexibility.

00:14:41.600 We want to be in Tennessee.

00:14:42.960 You don't really want to be in this marriage, basically.

00:14:45.580 And I'm like, this is all I want to do.

00:14:48.500 And so she said, let's go and try it.

00:14:50.300 And so we went there for three months.

00:14:53.080 And she said, and we'll see if you like it.

00:14:54.900 And I loved it.

00:14:56.580 And things started taking off, signed with an agent out there.

00:14:59.740 And then we would do three months on and then three months off with my father.

00:15:03.040 And he would drive across the country with us and, you know, get us to the apartment.

00:15:06.340 And then I'd stay there for three months and then go home.

00:15:07.860 And then I think at 14 was when we permanently moved out there.

00:15:14.540 And then I emancipated.

00:15:15.720 We mean you and my mother again.

00:15:18.260 Yeah.

00:15:18.380 And so what were you doing in Hollywood between 10 and 14?

00:15:22.200 Auditioning and doing small roles on different TV shows and short films and training.

00:15:27.460 That's the biggest part of being an actor is that you are in acting classes four times a week.

00:15:33.820 You are doing singing lessons.

00:15:35.900 You are dancing.

00:15:37.020 You're building your skill set.

00:15:38.460 I remember, you know, I had to do a, I was on a TV show and I had to learn how to fence.

00:15:42.400 So you're in, you know, fencing classes.

00:15:44.260 And in addition to that, I think this is important.

00:15:47.780 I had a lot of things outside of acting that I think kept me more well-rounded so that my identity did not completely get wrapped up in this industry that is very vapid.

00:15:56.520 And it is very based on vanity and selfishness and fame.

00:16:00.340 And I was, you know, a horseback rider and I was a ballet dancer for 15 years.

00:16:06.100 I did gymnastics.

00:16:07.040 I played tennis.

00:16:08.060 I was very, very involved in school.

00:16:10.020 I went to an online private school.

00:16:11.300 Incredibly, incredibly academic.

00:16:13.320 And my, I would say my identity was obviously more wrapped up in my education at that point in my life than it was in acting.

00:16:18.220 And acting was just something that I got to do.

00:16:20.060 And was your mother facilitating all of this?

00:16:22.200 Was she helping you out?

00:16:23.180 Yeah.

00:16:23.780 Right.

00:16:24.340 So you enjoyed your time in Los Angeles between 10 and 14?

00:16:27.980 I loved it.

00:16:28.400 There has been a lot of rumors about child actors in Hollywood recently.

00:16:33.980 What do you make of all that?

00:16:35.380 It's all true.

00:16:36.580 So what happened?

00:16:37.880 What did you escape unscathed?

00:16:39.780 I did.

00:16:40.440 I would say I saw a lot of it.

00:16:43.380 I was not.

00:16:44.120 What did you see?

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00:18:23.060 For example, I worked on a children's TV show on a major network, and one of the writers, after we wrapped on the show, after the show was canceled,

00:18:37.340 had incredibly inappropriate relationships with young women like me who were on the show.

00:18:44.800 Young women in my—

00:18:46.160 How young?

00:18:47.420 14.

00:18:48.520 Okay.

00:18:48.820 And to my knowledge, this was not sexual, but it was objectively grooming.

00:18:57.620 It was inappropriate relationships between an adult and minors because Hollywood goes ahead and it blurs the lines between what is appropriate between adults and children.

00:19:05.920 Because you're working with adults constantly.

00:19:07.500 Right, right.

00:19:07.980 My entire life, I spent—my entire childhood, I spent more time with adults than I did with children.

00:19:13.300 My management team, they were all adults, obviously.

00:19:16.300 Agents, managers, directors, casting directors, producers, wardrobe assistants, you're surrounded by adults constantly.

00:19:21.880 Writers, in this case.

00:19:23.680 And those lines get really blurred, so if a writer on a TV show that you worked on invites you and one of your co-stars out to lunch

00:19:30.760 to talk about another TV show that he's working on, your parents go, oh, okay, yeah, well, you've worked with him for two years at this point.

00:19:36.400 Let's take you to lunch.

00:19:37.680 Mm-hmm.

00:19:38.060 And then you're sitting here with this girl who's a year older than you, and he starts talking about the lesbian fantasies that he has about you and your friend.

00:19:44.140 Mm-hmm.

00:19:45.460 Like, that's—nothing happened, but that's the fact that he thought that that was appropriate.

00:19:50.880 The fact that he—

00:19:51.940 Well, that's a testing behavior.

00:19:52.960 Yeah, and then the fact that later we're walking around the restaurant and he puts his hand in my friend's back pocket, who's 15 years old, and I was just, you know, I'd get me out of here.

00:20:02.140 Completely inappropriate.

00:20:03.840 She was, I think—

00:20:06.160 How many of the young people in Hollywood are sold into that, so to speak, by their parents?

00:20:10.080 Now, you characterized your mother as someone who was loath to take you on the Hollywood adventure.

00:20:16.720 Mm-hmm.

00:20:17.780 But there's no shortage of parents.

00:20:20.540 Is it more common among mothers?

00:20:24.940 Probably.

00:20:26.520 The cluster B-type mothers who use their children to their own advantage, come hell or high water. 1.00

00:20:35.640 Yeah.

00:20:36.440 Jazz Jennings, for example, swings to mind.

00:20:39.140 Yeah.

00:20:39.340 Right, in the most brutal and horrible possible manner.

00:20:42.580 Right, but there's a lot—you can see a lot of this on social media.

00:20:46.740 Yeah.

00:20:47.300 You know, parents pimping out their children, transforming them as well, you know, and then proclaiming their moral virtue in consequence of the transformation.

00:20:56.820 You know, my child is very, very deviant, but I'm such a wonderful person.

00:21:01.840 Yeah.

00:21:02.160 That I still love them deeply.

00:21:03.740 Yeah.

00:21:04.600 Right, right.

00:21:05.880 But it was them in the first place that pushed them in that direction in the first place.

00:21:09.880 And then you—

00:21:10.200 You might say so.

00:21:11.160 Yeah.

00:21:11.400 And I think another example, did you read I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy?

00:21:16.440 No, I haven't read it.

00:21:17.880 Fantastic.

00:21:18.940 And that, I mean, that I think is the most incredible example of what a lot of these young people—

00:21:26.720 Jeanette McCurdy.

00:21:27.280 Jeanette McCurdy.

00:21:27.860 She's from my Carly.

00:21:28.600 Jeanette, Jeanette, you haven't talked to her on your podcast.

00:21:30.880 No, I have not.

00:21:33.280 I believe she talked to Michaela.

00:21:35.240 Ah, okay.

00:21:36.460 Okay.

00:21:37.700 It was just an incredible book.

00:21:39.040 I remember sitting—I read it last year when it came out, and I was just, I mean, full, just tears reading it.

00:21:43.980 Because these are the stories of the people that I grew up with.

00:21:47.540 They're the things that I saw but was protected against.

00:21:49.460 My mom was very wary about me being involved in this industry, and she was a shark.

00:21:54.960 She set firm boundaries.

00:21:57.700 She was always watching.

00:21:58.720 She was always within eyeshot.

00:22:00.160 Right, right.

00:22:00.640 So you had a guardian.

00:22:01.680 Oh, yes.

00:22:02.420 Right.

00:22:02.960 And the other thing that I think was incredibly important that she did was, again, like I said, I had so many other things going on in my life,

00:22:07.780 so my identity was not wrapped up in this industry.

00:22:10.600 I never connected it to money at all because my money was put in savings accounts.

00:22:15.720 My parents never touched it.

00:22:16.520 My mom never touched it.

00:22:17.840 The state takes 15% of whatever a young actor makes and puts it into your Coogan account.

00:22:22.840 So if you are in a situation where your parents are exploiting you, at least by 18 you have some money.

00:22:27.860 I never touched any of that and never wanted me to connect Hollywood and making money because I would see, she saw people in my circle, these kids,

00:22:38.020 they would do an episode on a TV show, and then their parents would go out and buy six American Girl dolls,

00:22:43.600 and they would buy a fancy new car for the family, and the parents would take a huge vacation that the kid at eight years old paid for.

00:22:49.160 Right.

00:22:49.400 And my mom always wanted to ensure that I stuck in this industry because I loved it, because I couldn't live without it, because I loved telling stories.

00:22:57.260 And at least once a month, she would say, are you sure you want to do this?

00:22:59.860 Because if you ever want to stop, we'll stop.

00:23:01.520 I don't care how much money we've invested in your acting classes and your dance classes.

00:23:04.800 If you want to stop, if you want to go home, we'll pack up and we'll move to Tennessee.

00:23:07.980 What made her so sensible?

00:23:10.540 She's just a brilliant woman. 0.77

00:23:12.160 She's incredible.

00:23:12.680 Well, she's one of the most resilient people I've ever met.

00:23:16.980 She has been to hell and back a million times.

00:23:19.880 Her first husband passed away.

00:23:21.200 Her child then passed away. 0.88

00:23:24.380 My older brother, in light of my brother's passing, has severe mental illness.

00:23:30.240 He's permanently in a psychiatric facility for schizophrenia.

00:23:34.700 Very, very hard marriage with my father.

00:23:36.940 Very, very hard upbringing where she was often the black sheep.

00:23:40.640 She is very comfortable being non-traditional and doing things that would be considered unconventional in whatever circumstance she's in.

00:23:49.880 How did you end up with traditional values then?

00:23:52.780 Because she's very traditional.

00:23:53.940 I realized that as I said that, I contradicted myself.

00:23:57.480 She is willing to be unconventional in the given circumstances.

00:24:02.220 So in Hollywood, we're in—

00:24:03.120 So she's daring.

00:24:04.020 She's daring.

00:24:04.820 And the majority of people that we were surrounded by were parents who were pushing their kids into this.

00:24:09.600 Because she was willing to be the one that says, no, my kid is not doing that.

00:24:13.020 My kid isn't doing this kind of project.

00:24:14.400 My kid is not going out for this project that is run by a producer that we know has a bad track record.

00:24:23.580 She was incredibly involved.

00:24:24.880 Right.

00:24:25.060 Well, so fundamentally, I mean, the case you're laying out, it's always useful to look at situational determinants of unfortunate outcomes, let's say.

00:24:34.240 And, you know, the first thing you said was, well, there are kids working with adults, and so the lines are blurred.

00:24:40.820 And, okay, so that sets the stage.

00:24:44.540 And then you can imagine that within those relationships, there's no shortage of people always whose ability to obtain intimacy, like, in a relationship or sexually is, like, stunningly compromised.

00:25:00.740 And so those people, at minimum, are going to, like, just as a consequence of their inability, are going to be looking for opportunity and maybe not even that good at distinguishing inappropriate from an inappropriate opportunity.

00:25:16.940 And then there's the ones that are really bent because they're resentful and because they're isolated.

00:25:22.700 They're actually looking for innocence to subvert and destroy.

00:25:28.160 Those are the more people who tilt more in the explicitly narcissistic and sadistic direction.

00:25:34.100 And your circumstance was such that you had a mother who was watching out for you.

00:25:40.420 And so that, instead of a mother who was complicit and exploiting you. 1.00

00:25:45.180 Who turned to black, yeah. 1.00

00:25:46.060 Now, you said you had a growth spurt when you were how old?

00:25:49.280 Nine?

00:25:49.760 Yeah.

00:25:50.180 So what, how physically mature were you by the time you were 14?

00:25:55.740 Um, relatively.

00:25:57.260 I always looked older for my age.

00:25:59.040 One, so I...

00:26:00.140 That's another thing that blurs the lines, of course, right?

00:26:03.040 Yeah.

00:26:03.340 And if you're around adults and you learn to act like an adult, you're going to also present yourself, you know, in a more mature manner.

00:26:11.340 Yeah.

00:26:11.540 And if you physically look like one. 0.83

00:26:13.700 I mean, I...

00:26:14.420 Yeah, yeah.

00:26:14.620 Well, that's...

00:26:15.460 Yeah.

00:26:16.100 Mm-hmm.

00:26:16.740 It makes it very, very complicated.

00:26:20.100 However, it also, it just shouldn't be complicated.

00:26:21.780 What did you, what did you do, do you think that...

00:26:24.260 So, often girls, bully victims in general, girls who are subject to exploitation are not very good at subtle signaling.

00:26:42.460 Mm-hmm.

00:26:43.240 They don't know how to say no.

00:26:45.640 They don't know when to say no.

00:26:47.220 They don't know how to broadcast no.

00:26:50.680 Yeah.

00:26:50.980 Like, right from the initial interactions, right?

00:26:55.820 So, how do you think you conducted yourself so that...

00:27:01.980 Because I know you said your mother was protecting you.

00:27:04.120 Yeah.

00:27:04.160 But did you conduct yourself so that nothing got going?

00:27:09.120 Yeah.

00:27:09.360 Okay, how?

00:27:10.660 I would say just intrinsically I'm very self-aware and have been for a long time.

00:27:17.700 And I think that that is because I had to grow up very quickly in terms of my family.

00:27:22.920 I was just very aware of everything that was going on.

00:27:25.180 You also said you didn't want to cause trouble.

00:27:27.460 Yeah.

00:27:27.660 But I don't think that means that I was not willing to stand up for myself because in situations that were this severe in terms of my safety, my innocence.

00:27:43.900 Anyway, I think that I was very self-aware.

00:27:45.720 And then it goes back to my mother.

00:27:47.380 Again, when we moved out to Los Angeles, she knew everything, all the rumors about Hollywood, the casting couch.

00:27:52.840 She put me in women's self-defense against sexual assault classes when I was 10.

00:27:59.020 And I did those classes until I...

00:28:01.800 And that was useful?

00:28:02.880 The most incredible thing I've ever done.

00:28:05.220 Hands down.

00:28:06.340 I was put in situations.

00:28:08.400 I started out doing group classes.

00:28:10.140 And you learn how to fight against a male opponent that is bigger than you.

00:28:14.180 Because you can do jiu-jitsu.

00:28:15.540 You can do karate.

00:28:16.200 I think that those disciplines are incredible.

00:28:20.480 They often do not translate to real-world fighting for women.

00:28:24.960 Yeah, right.

00:28:25.380 Specifically.

00:28:25.640 Of course.

00:28:26.700 Women, we hold our strength in different parts of our bodies. 0.99

00:28:29.940 When you are dealing with an assault, their situational awareness is so important.

00:28:35.300 Your voice is so important.

00:28:36.300 Just being able to scream no.

00:28:37.980 Yeah.

00:28:39.740 It was incredible.

00:28:41.040 And so, I mean, I was put in situations in these classes where a man comes up behind you,

00:28:44.860 my instructor, comes up behind you, holding a knife to your throat.

00:28:48.520 Knowing how to get out of that. 1.00

00:28:49.680 Holding a gun to your head. 1.00

00:28:50.920 I see. 0.98

00:28:51.280 You were on the ground.

00:28:51.980 So you at least were run through situations.

00:28:54.600 I was run through, but I think...

00:28:55.740 The situation you described in the restaurant, where this writer, I think you said was a writer,

00:29:02.360 slipped his hand into the back pocket of your friend.

00:29:06.120 Yes.

00:29:06.440 You said she was a little older than you? 0.95

00:29:07.780 Yeah.

00:29:08.220 She was 16.

00:29:08.960 Why didn't he do the same thing to you?

00:29:10.980 He tried to, and I moved away.

00:29:12.960 And I said, that's weird.

00:29:13.720 Don't do that.

00:29:14.480 Okay.

00:29:15.040 Did she do that? 1.00

00:29:16.120 Yeah.

00:29:16.780 Okay.

00:29:17.380 So that's the perfect example of what you were just saying.

00:29:19.440 Yeah.

00:29:19.660 Well, that's exactly my point.

00:29:21.520 Those are the micro no's that stop things from proceeding.

00:29:25.980 Yes.

00:29:26.460 Right.

00:29:27.180 Yeah.

00:29:27.620 And so...

00:29:29.280 And I credit a lot of that to these classes that I did.

00:29:33.060 Yeah.

00:29:33.320 Because as you said, and as you brought up again, I was unwilling to rock the boat.

00:29:38.760 I was a doormat in my family.

00:29:40.340 And still, that's something that I'm still working through as an adult now.

00:29:44.060 I'm being very, very nervous about that in my immediate family, just because of the way that I was raised.

00:29:49.220 Are you an agreeable person?

00:29:50.920 Do you like to please people?

00:29:52.220 I do.

00:29:53.040 Uh-huh.

00:29:53.720 Right, right, right.

00:29:54.680 Well, you can also see the complexity because if you're an entertainer and you're on the stage, you're obligated as part of your role to be magnetically attractive, charismatic, and all of that.

00:30:07.780 And to capitalize on that.

00:30:10.940 Mm-hmm.

00:30:11.320 And so, drawing the line, Marilyn Monroe.

00:30:18.860 She said she could walk down the street as Norma Rae. 0.52

00:30:22.540 Norma Jean.

00:30:23.300 Norma Jean.

00:30:24.140 Norma Jean.

00:30:24.880 Or as Marilyn.

00:30:25.920 Mm-hmm.

00:30:26.200 Right?

00:30:26.520 And if she walked down the street as Norma Jean, no one paid any attention to her.

00:30:30.020 But if she walked down the street as Marilyn Monroe, then she was magnetically attractive. 1.00

00:30:34.480 Exactly.

00:30:34.640 And so, those are obviously, well, she was a master of that seductress role. 1.00

00:30:40.920 She's still iconic because of that.

00:30:42.440 And it's like 70 years later.

00:30:43.900 That's really quite something.

00:30:45.140 And it certainly destroyed her.

00:30:46.840 Yeah.

00:30:47.220 Right?

00:30:47.540 Because that was too much.

00:30:49.000 Well, if you're an actor, an actress, then you have this conundrum because you're rewarded for your attractiveness.

00:30:56.840 You're capitalizing on your attractiveness.

00:30:59.260 You're among adults, but you have to hem that in so that you're not exploited.

00:31:05.040 Yeah.

00:31:05.320 Right?

00:31:05.740 Well, when exactly are you being exploited and when exactly are you exploiting yourself?

00:31:11.180 It's not like that's obvious.

00:31:12.440 So, it's a very good thing that you had your mother along with you.

00:31:16.240 Yeah.

00:31:16.460 The courses, too, that's interesting because you were at least placed in frightening situations.

00:31:21.980 Yeah.

00:31:22.060 And you were at least alerted to the fact that those sorts of things existed.

00:31:25.160 How do you think what you learned in the course has translated into changes in your day-to-day behavior?

00:31:30.500 They addressed my doormat behavior.

00:31:35.560 They addressed my agreeableness.

00:31:36.620 Oh, yeah.

00:31:37.080 Because more than any of the physical fighting that I was doing, and that was fun and it was an energy release that made me feel powerful.

00:31:44.460 Yeah.

00:31:45.500 Emotionally, I held myself differently.

00:31:48.120 My confidence skyrocketed.

00:31:49.620 Oh, yeah.

00:31:49.800 Because for the first time in my life, I was given permission to say no.

00:31:54.020 I was given permission to draw a line in the sand.

00:31:56.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:57.220 And I think that is what my mom wanted more than anything.

00:31:59.080 I think that obviously she wanted me to be able to defend myself.

00:32:02.220 And as I got older, that's when we started doing more of the, you know, date rape simulations.

00:32:06.340 Like, we weren't doing that at 10 years old.

00:32:08.840 What she wanted me to learn, because she had watched me grow up and be very, very shy and refusing to get on stage.

00:32:16.440 And I think that she knew that I had this desperate urge to perform, that I wanted to tell stories.

00:32:22.840 She didn't want that mixed with my doormat behavior to then open the door for exploitation. 1.00

00:32:30.960 So women are more empathic, compassionate, agreeable than men on average.

00:32:37.840 And from what you've told me, you tilt more in the agreeable direction.

00:32:41.860 And the problem with being agreeable, one of the problems with being agreeable, is that your agreeable people feel the pain of others quite acutely.

00:32:52.760 Like, literally.

00:32:53.800 So I'm an agreeable person, so if I'm watching you in pain, the same circuits that are mediating your pain are active in me.

00:33:01.660 Now, if I'm not so agreeable, that doesn't happen.

00:33:04.040 And that makes it easier for, what does that mean?

00:33:06.420 Well, the downside is it makes it easier for me to be selfish, because I don't give a damn about my effects on other people. 0.56

00:33:12.400 But the upside is, I can tell you to go to hell when it's necessary, and I don't care what your response is.

00:33:17.540 Now, I worked with a lot of women in my clinical practice who were, like, sequentially abused. 0.78

00:33:22.900 And one of the things I noticed about them was that, well, first of all, they generally were very badly socialized,

00:33:29.240 and so I had no idea where to draw those initial lines, and that's what continually got them into trouble.

00:33:35.460 But they're also very unwilling to reject and to say no.

00:33:40.280 And the reason for that's obvious.

00:33:43.000 Like, if you reject someone, if you say no to someone, if you stop their advances,

00:33:48.000 you're definitely going to do something like offend them or hurt their feelings.

00:33:52.500 And so if you're an agreeable person, that's a very difficult thing to do.

00:33:55.620 It's the worst thing you could do.

00:33:56.640 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:33:57.380 A disagreeable person will just say...

00:33:58.540 It's so crushing.

00:33:59.160 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:59.700 A disagreeable person will just say, well, no, and I don't care what you think about it, 0.98

00:34:04.620 or feel about it, like, screw off. 0.95

00:34:07.740 Yeah. 0.98

00:34:08.140 Right?

00:34:08.480 And you need that.

00:34:10.820 You need that.

00:34:12.020 Especially if you're attractive, especially if you're charismatic,

00:34:14.960 or especially if people are coming at you for a variety of reasons.

00:34:19.620 There are kind of two main reasons why people go to therapy.

00:34:23.760 One is to deal with negative emotion, let's say, depression and anxiety.

00:34:28.020 The other main category is to learn how to stand up for themselves.

00:34:31.640 That's why I went to therapy.

00:34:32.440 I was going to say no.

00:34:33.200 Uh-huh.

00:34:34.220 And how are you at that now?

00:34:36.280 I'm much better.

00:34:37.080 How are you at contractual negotiations?

00:34:39.260 Much better.

00:34:39.980 Yeah?

00:34:40.320 Much better.

00:34:40.760 How did you do negotiating with Daily Wire?

00:34:42.380 I think I did pretty well.

00:34:43.240 Did you do great?

00:34:44.620 I think I did pretty well.

00:34:45.520 I've gotten better since then.

00:34:48.260 Yeah, it's good to surround yourself with sharks,

00:34:50.260 as long as they're not, like, gnawing on you.

00:34:52.400 Yeah.

00:34:53.240 But it's been a...

00:34:54.360 Have you had good agents?

00:34:55.740 I've had great agents.

00:34:56.700 That's good.

00:34:57.360 Yeah.

00:34:57.480 That's good.

00:34:57.920 So you have had people other than your mother that have been on your side?

00:35:01.300 Yeah.

00:35:01.860 Long-term relationships with them?

00:35:03.500 Yeah.

00:35:04.020 Oh, yeah.

00:35:04.380 That's a good deal.

00:35:05.600 I think one thing, and I think we're going to talk about this later,

00:35:08.920 but another thing is my now husband,

00:35:12.000 I think has probably been the most influential in that.

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00:36:28.080 How long have you known him?

00:36:31.040 Two years.

00:36:32.280 In influential in what way?

00:36:33.960 In encouraging me to stand up for myself.

00:36:39.080 I am very agreeable.

00:36:40.740 And I think that was something that I didn't want to be

00:36:43.360 for a long time.

00:36:44.660 And I think that it was important that I learned how to control that.

00:36:48.460 Because I think that it can be used really beautifully

00:36:49.940 and to your advantage.

00:36:50.700 And I think it makes me a very empathetic person.

00:36:52.340 If you started crying, I would start crying right now.

00:36:54.320 It's great with infants.

00:36:55.040 Yes.

00:36:55.300 And so, you know, that's the place where agreeableness

00:37:04.380 most appropriately manifests itself.

00:37:06.440 And it's partly because, think about it this way,

00:37:08.620 when you have an infant, especially in the first,

00:37:11.700 let's say, nine months, it's not quite that long,

00:37:14.160 but it's certainly the first six,

00:37:16.700 you have to agree with everything, right?

00:37:19.180 Every single demand that new creature makes,

00:37:23.300 you are obliged to say yes to, right?

00:37:26.940 And so, if you're agreeable and empathic

00:37:29.100 and compassionate and responsive,

00:37:30.900 then that's a perfect match for that relationship.

00:37:33.560 Problem is, is that the relationship with infants

00:37:37.040 isn't the same as the relationship with,

00:37:39.120 well, certainly not, with predatory adults.

00:37:41.240 No.

00:37:41.540 Right?

00:37:41.920 Those are very different.

00:37:44.000 Yeah.

00:37:44.460 Yeah.

00:37:45.220 Yeah.

00:37:45.760 Opposite.

00:37:46.240 And so, it takes a whole different set of personality skills

00:37:49.900 to be able to manage both levels of relationship.

00:37:52.220 It does.

00:37:52.920 And that could be developed.

00:37:54.720 So, let's talk about, let's move from Hollywood

00:38:00.380 to the beginning of the comment section, right?

00:38:05.180 Because is that when the trend, that's when...

00:38:07.060 Yes.

00:38:07.780 Yeah, that's when your life transformed.

00:38:09.740 Yes?

00:38:10.240 Yes.

00:38:10.580 Yes.

00:38:10.840 Okay, so tell us that story.

00:38:12.080 It was during COVID and I, Hollywood shut down

00:38:15.780 as the world did.

00:38:17.040 I was in college.

00:38:17.660 I was at UCLA.

00:38:18.820 What were you taking?

00:38:20.120 I was an English literature major.

00:38:21.080 Yeah.

00:38:21.340 How did that go at UCLA?

00:38:24.020 I feel like I...

00:38:25.340 You're in English?

00:38:25.740 You're in the English department?

00:38:27.080 That's so awful.

00:38:28.660 Really, that's so awful.

00:38:30.340 I wanted to be...

00:38:32.160 Were you crawling out of your skin?

00:38:33.360 I was.

00:38:33.960 But the good thing is, this was a blessing in disguise,

00:38:36.460 I had a much better experience in a twisted way

00:38:41.040 because of COVID, because I got to go home.

00:38:43.340 And because I was in online classes, I didn't...

00:38:46.940 I see.

00:38:47.040 You were protected from the university.

00:38:49.180 Yes, yes.

00:38:49.500 Oh, God.

00:38:49.960 I know.

00:38:50.280 That's so awful.

00:38:50.720 But I had a unique experience because I emancipated myself at 15.

00:38:55.360 That's when I graduated high school.

00:38:57.740 Started doing...

00:38:59.320 So, you graduated from high school at 15?

00:39:01.140 Yes.

00:39:01.360 Oh, well, congratulations on that.

00:39:03.420 Thank you.

00:39:04.740 And why did you emancipate yourself?

00:39:07.520 I think a lot of people assumed that it was all for acting,

00:39:12.380 but it was mainly family.

00:39:13.860 My parents' divorce had gotten pretty messy.

00:39:16.520 My...

00:39:17.760 I was being used in the middle of it.

00:39:21.200 Inadvertently so.

00:39:23.520 And that was not a position that I wanted to be in.

00:39:26.320 And I was making enough money to remove myself from that situation.

00:39:30.280 And I think the most important one was my...

00:39:34.120 My brother's schizophrenia had really taken off at that point.

00:39:37.680 And it became a physically dangerous situation to be at home.

00:39:42.020 And there was a lot of turmoil.

00:39:43.740 There were just a lot of outbursts.

00:39:46.180 My mom was splitting her time between California

00:39:48.300 and then flying back to Tennessee to handle the divorce 0.99

00:39:51.400 and the division of my parents' estate

00:39:53.220 while simultaneously coming back out to Los Angeles.

00:39:55.380 My brother was homeless at the time, was using drugs.

00:39:58.120 When she was gone, I would be the one to go literally find him

00:40:02.560 on the streets of California.

00:40:04.120 And he would be, you know, passed out, drugged out of his mind.

00:40:08.660 And that mixed with my parents' divorce.

00:40:12.620 And then also I had a career on top of that.

00:40:15.300 And I was getting offers for jobs.

00:40:18.040 But because I was so technically under the age of 18,

00:40:20.320 I had to have a legal guardian.

00:40:21.500 You know, within six feet, eyesight, earshot.

00:40:25.800 And my mom could not be there because she was handling this.

00:40:30.580 She was handling too many other things.

00:40:31.480 Did your relationship with your mother maintain itself?

00:40:34.160 Yes, she was in support.

00:40:35.340 And what about your father?

00:40:37.220 It struggled.

00:40:38.160 But my father and I have had a very tumultuous relationship

00:40:41.260 for the majority of my life.

00:40:43.880 And so that wasn't like a real breaking point.

00:40:46.200 It was just kind of like, okay, here we go.

00:40:47.820 So it was more, I see.

00:40:49.300 So you had practical reasons for this.

00:40:50.920 Very practical.

00:40:51.880 Was it a good decision?

00:40:53.440 It was the best, yeah.

00:40:55.080 And it was not contentious.

00:40:56.640 I came to my parents and I said,

00:40:58.940 this makes logical sense.

00:41:00.280 I have a career.

00:41:01.540 Yeah.

00:41:01.840 I am in college.

00:41:03.380 Oh, you graduated.

00:41:04.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:41:04.600 And I'm in college, yeah.

00:41:05.940 So you were ahead of the curve.

00:41:06.980 I was ahead of the curve.

00:41:08.380 And I'm, you know, sitting here in Los Angeles.

00:41:10.400 And my mom basically, I mean, she agreed.

00:41:12.480 And she said, this, if I leave,

00:41:13.780 that means you're going to have to leave

00:41:14.620 because I can't leave a 15-year-old child

00:41:16.100 here in Los Angeles with a drug addict, 0.57

00:41:18.800 schizophrenic brother on the street.

00:41:20.320 I'm not going to do that.

00:41:21.060 So you'll have to come back to Chattanooga.

00:41:22.260 And I said, I don't want to do that.

00:41:22.940 I don't want to go back to Chattanooga.

00:41:24.300 I don't want to live in the middle of your mess,

00:41:26.060 of your divorce.

00:41:27.380 I'm not going to do that again.

00:41:28.700 And I have opportunities.

00:41:29.800 And so we...

00:41:30.440 So there's a time you said no.

00:41:31.780 Yeah.

00:41:32.580 And I said, I'm going to do this.

00:41:33.480 And so we went to court in Chattanooga.

00:41:34.920 My oldest brother helped me.

00:41:36.860 My parents signed off on it.

00:41:38.900 And, you know, I lived with my mom after that.

00:41:41.920 Like, it was not like I was ever around her.

00:41:43.300 But I got a job at Trader Joe's that I would have a stable income

00:41:46.680 in between acting jobs.

00:41:48.960 And I worked there for five years and just kept that job

00:41:51.500 until I left California.

00:41:52.600 Best job I ever had.

00:41:54.100 What did you do at Trader Joe's?

00:41:55.600 Just a, you know, a bad girl, basically.

00:41:57.580 We did.

00:41:57.940 People at Trader Joe's do everything.

00:41:59.200 You stock the shelves.

00:42:00.080 You bring in orders.

00:42:00.740 And you liked that?

00:42:01.380 I loved it.

00:42:02.160 Why?

00:42:04.580 I felt physically useful.

00:42:06.620 I see.

00:42:07.320 So there was immediate reward element to it.

00:42:09.080 Yeah, immediate reward.

00:42:10.360 I loved the appreciation from the customers.

00:42:14.500 And I loved meeting interesting people.

00:42:15.640 Because if you go to Trader Joe's, you're always talking to people.

00:42:18.280 Like, the joke with Trader Joe's is that,

00:42:20.120 is the cashier flirting with you or not?

00:42:22.480 And you go there to have social hour.

00:42:24.160 And I loved that aspect of it.

00:42:25.700 I loved meeting new people.

00:42:27.220 I loved feeling like I had a purpose every single day.

00:42:30.540 In a very, acting in Hollywood is very...

00:42:34.000 Sporadic.

00:42:34.800 Yes.

00:42:35.340 And you can be working on a series,

00:42:37.960 you know, be a series regular,

00:42:38.860 and then they cancel the show.

00:42:40.120 You have no work, or you might not work for...

00:42:42.080 Right, right, so you're going like this.

00:42:42.380 Yeah.

00:42:42.760 And I am a very...

00:42:45.680 I'm pretty habitual.

00:42:46.900 And I like knowing exactly...

00:42:47.800 Everyone, everyone is.

00:42:49.020 Okay, that's good to know.

00:42:49.900 I'm not crazy.

00:42:50.860 Well, my suspicions are you're probably far less that way than most people.

00:42:54.940 Yeah.

00:42:55.340 Well, because you take all sorts of risks.

00:42:57.260 That's true.

00:42:57.420 And you're able to tolerate, you know, a very dynamic life.

00:42:59.820 It's like, people are creatures of habit,

00:43:02.240 like you can't possibly imagine.

00:43:03.840 And they go crazy way faster than you think if their habits are disrupted.

00:43:08.380 It's really hard on people.

00:43:10.080 We're pack animals, right?

00:43:12.440 We like an orderly social environment.

00:43:14.440 Yeah.

00:43:14.580 We like a high degree of predictability.

00:43:16.500 And we like the same things,

00:43:19.260 at least a fair number of the same things happening

00:43:21.680 on a regular and predictable daily schedule.

00:43:24.400 You know, weekly, monthly, all of that.

00:43:26.340 Otherwise, the threads start to show.

00:43:30.200 Yeah.

00:43:30.340 Do you think it was because I was experiencing such an extreme high and low?

00:43:36.180 Because you are right.

00:43:37.120 Because I do take risks.

00:43:38.680 I have been in very unconventional situations my whole life.

00:43:42.660 Yeah, constantly.

00:43:43.020 So I wonder, I also think it might have been a,

00:43:46.680 again, going back to family,

00:43:47.880 it was so turbulent,

00:43:49.960 it was so up and down,

00:43:50.940 that I think I just needed some kind,

00:43:53.620 I had no structure.

00:43:54.360 Well, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever

00:43:56.900 to have to formulate a rationale

00:43:59.800 for wanting some habitual predictability.

00:44:02.880 Yeah.

00:44:03.300 Right.

00:44:03.640 People, they cannot function without that.

00:44:06.940 Right.

00:44:07.100 People think of anxiety as something inside their head.

00:44:11.300 That's not right.

00:44:12.940 You're anxious when everything around you is coming apart.

00:44:16.680 And so the anxiety is a reflection of that.

00:44:18.880 Now, you can find yourself in situations

00:44:22.100 where your physiological state or your psychological state

00:44:25.700 makes you overreact to uncertainty in the environment.

00:44:29.080 But generally, for example,

00:44:32.320 when someone develops major depressive disorder,

00:44:34.560 it's in the aftermath of something truly awful.

00:44:37.340 Yes.

00:44:37.900 Like they just don't fall apart for no reason.

00:44:39.820 Now, having been broken once,

00:44:41.920 they may be more susceptible to being broken again in the future.

00:44:44.800 But it's not exactly a psychological problem.

00:44:48.400 And anxiety is not a psychological problem.

00:44:50.640 It's a navigation problem.

00:44:52.480 And, you know, you had a complicated and mutable home life

00:44:57.940 and your career was very complex and multidimensional.

00:45:02.280 The fact that you found a job

00:45:04.420 that had this level of predictability and sameness

00:45:07.980 and found that, what would you say,

00:45:11.440 that offered you a certain degree of security,

00:45:13.540 that requires no explanation whatsoever.

00:45:16.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:16.760 Well, I loved it.

00:45:17.320 This is a good thing to know about kids, too.

00:45:19.320 Like, you want to routinize your children.

00:45:22.520 Right.

00:45:24.320 They get up at the same time.

00:45:26.260 They eat at the same time.

00:45:27.940 They get read to at night at the same time.

00:45:30.000 Like, they need these little islands of stability.

00:45:32.360 Then they can use those islands of stability

00:45:34.120 as places to explore from.

00:45:36.340 But if they're in chaos all the time,

00:45:38.600 if you put your children in chaos all the time,

00:45:40.440 they will torture you to death.

00:45:42.660 And you deserve it for not setting them up 0.99

00:45:45.180 with these predictable daily routines.

00:45:48.120 That's how they organize their...

00:45:51.140 Those are the islands.

00:45:52.420 It's like at the beginning of time,

00:45:53.960 when the earth emerges from the primordial waters.

00:45:58.180 It's these islands of stability.

00:46:00.140 That's what allows people to plant their flag in the ground

00:46:03.040 and to establish themselves.

00:46:05.300 It's a very good thing to know, too, about marriage,

00:46:07.600 is that you need routines and rituals.

00:46:09.860 They have to repeat,

00:46:11.120 because otherwise you don't know which way is up.

00:46:13.400 Yeah.

00:46:13.560 All right, so tell me how you got involved

00:46:16.600 with the Daily Wire Club.

00:46:17.400 Finally, yeah.

00:46:17.880 Yeah.

00:46:18.420 We'll make it there.

00:46:20.340 During COVID, I was...

00:46:24.120 I got involved in conservative media,

00:46:28.700 I would say, in Los Angeles.

00:46:30.480 I lost a lot of friends at UCLA

00:46:31.980 because of my political beliefs.

00:46:33.720 I felt incredibly isolated,

00:46:35.840 not just from friends,

00:46:39.060 but campus life in general.

00:46:39.980 What conservative beliefs?

00:46:41.620 Like, what was it, you know...

00:46:42.860 Yeah.

00:46:43.200 First of all,

00:46:43.860 one of the things I really have observed about the left,

00:46:46.340 and I do not believe that this is true

00:46:48.220 of classic liberals or conservatives,

00:46:50.900 the left, especially the radical types,

00:46:52.720 they will drop you in a moment

00:46:54.080 if you say or do anything

00:46:55.820 that's out of that ideological sink.

00:46:58.780 And that is not equally true

00:47:00.440 of people on the liberal or the right side.

00:47:02.660 Yep.

00:47:02.980 And that's what I experienced.

00:47:04.420 So the lefties, they will cancel and exclude.

00:47:06.120 That's part of the entanglement

00:47:07.460 of the radical left

00:47:08.440 with cluster B psychopathology,

00:47:10.860 with narcissism,

00:47:11.880 with psychopathy,

00:47:13.440 with borderline personality disorder,

00:47:15.640 with antisocial behavior.

00:47:17.300 Like, that's all behavior

00:47:19.540 that's associated with social exclusion.

00:47:21.760 It's very, very aggressive.

00:47:23.340 Like, it's passive aggressive

00:47:24.480 because it doesn't involve fists,

00:47:26.240 but social exclusion

00:47:27.480 is a very effective form of punishment.

00:47:29.780 And the radicals on the left

00:47:31.020 are masters at using it.

00:47:32.600 So what sort of views

00:47:33.800 were you being alienating yourself with?

00:47:39.100 So the first one was that

00:47:41.360 I did not want to vote for Biden

00:47:44.220 in the primaries.

00:47:45.240 It was going to be my first time

00:47:46.300 voting in a presidential election.

00:47:47.800 And you were going to vote for Trump?

00:47:49.080 I was.

00:47:50.040 And how old were you?

00:47:51.340 18.

00:47:51.860 So like you were the one

00:47:52.840 18-year-old female.

00:47:53.760 I was 18, yeah.

00:47:55.000 And I walked into,

00:47:56.580 this is my favorite story from college,

00:47:57.620 I walked into a party

00:47:58.820 at one of my best friend's apartments.

00:48:01.320 Big rage were happening.

00:48:01.980 And this is after I had just had like a,

00:48:04.700 I wouldn't even call it a fight.

00:48:06.400 It was just kind of like a reckoning

00:48:08.260 in my friend group

00:48:08.980 of they realized

00:48:09.780 that I was not on their team.

00:48:11.940 And I had never considered myself Republican.

00:48:13.980 I had never considered myself.

00:48:15.740 I just didn't even think about it.

00:48:17.160 My family.

00:48:17.760 Right, so you weren't political up to that.

00:48:19.120 No, I was not.

00:48:19.740 My family was always more on the right.

00:48:22.400 My mom studied under Ayn Rand.

00:48:24.100 She was a libertarian.

00:48:25.420 My oldest brother,

00:48:26.440 who was one of the most important people

00:48:27.660 in my life.

00:48:29.180 Incredibly, incredibly libertarian,

00:48:30.600 as libertarian as you can get.

00:48:32.280 And my mom raised us

00:48:34.820 based on values instead of politics.

00:48:37.760 She didn't talk about politics.

00:48:38.800 She didn't talk about current events.

00:48:40.220 But she talked about personal responsibility.

00:48:42.280 She talked about accountability.

00:48:43.940 One of the greatest things

00:48:45.000 that she taught me,

00:48:45.580 sort of what you touched on

00:48:46.440 when you were talking about anxiety

00:48:48.120 being, you know,

00:48:49.540 the mirror in something that's external

00:48:50.600 is that you can only control your response

00:48:52.980 to the circumstances in your life.

00:48:54.460 Again, that you are in control.

00:48:57.580 She valued freedom and independence.

00:49:01.220 And then the more political stuff

00:49:02.660 was fiscal responsibility,

00:49:03.860 but we didn't even talk about that

00:49:05.020 in terms of politics.

00:49:06.300 It was just, you know,

00:49:07.840 we would sort of touch on taxation

00:49:09.380 in my homeschool, you know, civics class.

00:49:11.340 Right, so your mother really helped you

00:49:12.840 with the understanding

00:49:13.680 that you had some choices

00:49:15.180 to make in your life

00:49:16.140 and that you could make them well

00:49:17.280 and then you emancipated yourself.

00:49:18.820 So that's your short curve.

00:49:19.440 I sure made my choice, yeah.

00:49:21.400 Independence.

00:49:22.680 And this all really came to a head

00:49:24.320 as COVID was taking off.

00:49:28.280 Did you finish your degree at UCLA?

00:49:30.020 I did.

00:49:30.460 Oh, congratulations.

00:49:31.520 Thank you.

00:49:31.720 Good for you.

00:49:32.260 You stuck it out.

00:49:33.380 I did.

00:49:33.940 I did.

00:49:34.640 Even though you took online courses.

00:49:36.360 Were any of your online courses worth taking?

00:49:41.340 Yeah.

00:49:42.020 They were?

00:49:42.620 What percentage of them do you think?

00:49:45.880 Oh, gosh.

00:49:49.800 60%.

00:49:50.240 I'm a major English litner.

00:49:54.220 Like, I loved English lit

00:49:57.560 all throughout high school.

00:49:58.440 Since the fifth grade,

00:49:59.360 I knew that I wanted to be an English major

00:50:00.820 because I just, again, I love stories.

00:50:02.380 I love stories.

00:50:03.340 I love understanding the human condition

00:50:05.900 through stories.

00:50:06.820 And I wanted to study British literature.

00:50:08.960 And so I did it.

00:50:10.060 I did my final capstone on Barnaby Rudge

00:50:13.560 by Charles Dickens.

00:50:14.400 And I was just, I mean, I was obsessed.

00:50:16.180 And so a lot of the classes,

00:50:18.300 I made it through just because I,

00:50:22.180 number one, I already knew my values.

00:50:23.700 I had a great foundation.

00:50:24.680 I wasn't easily deterred.

00:50:25.760 And I cared more about stories.

00:50:27.260 And I did have a few good professors.

00:50:29.260 Actually, the best and most

00:50:30.820 common sense-driven professor I ever had

00:50:33.040 was at Berkeley

00:50:33.760 because I did a business program

00:50:34.940 at Berkeley's grad school.

00:50:36.220 And she was the most right-wing, 0.99

00:50:39.720 commonsensical.

00:50:40.900 At Berkeley.

00:50:41.340 At Berkeley's grad school

00:50:42.440 at the Haas School of Business.

00:50:43.540 Oh, okay.

00:50:44.080 Well, you might find someone like that

00:50:45.460 hiding in the business school.

00:50:46.620 And she was fantastic.

00:50:48.400 How did you,

00:50:49.100 how did your professors respond

00:50:50.960 to your essays and so forth at UCLA?

00:50:53.260 The worst case of this

00:50:55.660 was actually in my first semester at UCLA.

00:50:59.640 So just a little bit of context.

00:51:00.980 So, you know,

00:51:01.240 I know we keep getting off

00:51:02.020 of the Daily Wire thing,

00:51:02.640 but I think you'll find this interesting.

00:51:03.580 You'll find this interesting.

00:51:04.760 I did community college

00:51:05.800 for the first two years.

00:51:07.080 So I didn't go to university

00:51:07.980 for all four.

00:51:08.580 And I think that was also

00:51:09.260 a very important thing.

00:51:10.640 Yeah, right, right, right.

00:51:11.720 I believe that I got

00:51:12.420 a better education.

00:51:12.880 In person at community?

00:51:13.620 Yes.

00:51:13.960 Yeah, I went to community college

00:51:15.040 for the first two years too.

00:51:16.380 And I got the best education

00:51:17.540 of my life at community college.

00:51:19.100 I had a better education there.

00:51:19.840 The professors actually cared

00:51:20.880 about teaching.

00:51:21.900 Yeah.

00:51:22.220 And I had a personal relationship

00:51:23.460 with them.

00:51:23.980 I loved them.

00:51:24.820 Yeah.

00:51:25.200 Because they were willing.

00:51:26.320 Small classes?

00:51:27.160 Yes.

00:51:27.820 And they wanted to be there

00:51:29.920 because of the students

00:51:30.700 and because they loved the subject,

00:51:33.720 not because they got the notoriety

00:51:35.380 of being at UCLA

00:51:36.240 or because they got the resources

00:51:39.800 for their research

00:51:40.620 or the book that they were writing.

00:51:41.780 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:42.680 And I think that I was

00:51:43.640 much better off for it.

00:51:44.600 I would recommend it to anyone.

00:51:45.780 I saved so much money.

00:51:46.460 I think I got my full bachelor's

00:51:48.580 for under $20,000.

00:51:50.180 Yeah.

00:51:50.640 Because of that,

00:51:52.060 I got to explore so many subjects

00:51:54.660 that I would have never gotten

00:51:55.420 to explore at UCLA.

00:51:55.600 Right, and you were still able

00:51:56.680 to concentrate on the literature.

00:51:58.820 Yes.

00:51:58.960 Actually, literature, right?

00:52:01.100 So I studied that

00:52:03.140 and then came to UCLA.

00:52:04.200 My first semester at UCLA,

00:52:05.600 I had to take one of those

00:52:08.080 intersectional literature classes,

00:52:10.740 which actually since my leaving UCLA,

00:52:12.480 they have, I believe,

00:52:13.400 adapted their English literature department

00:52:15.560 where now it is less about

00:52:17.520 the Miltons and the Shakespeare

00:52:19.060 and the Brontes

00:52:20.160 and it's more about feminism 1.00

00:52:22.520 through the, you know,

00:52:24.860 Bronte through the lens

00:52:25.720 of feminism.

00:52:26.480 That's wonderful.

00:52:27.700 And that, when I was there,

00:52:29.200 you had to do...

00:52:29.740 Bronte through the lens

00:52:30.600 of resentful bitterness.

00:52:31.960 Yes, there you go.

00:52:32.620 That's probably what I mean.

00:52:33.200 Yeah, lovely, lovely.

00:52:34.140 Or how we as professors

00:52:37.200 are morally superior

00:52:38.360 to all the great artists

00:52:39.660 of the past.

00:52:40.420 Exactly.

00:52:40.940 Right.

00:52:41.260 That's basically it.

00:52:41.720 Jesus.

00:52:42.220 But when I was there,

00:52:43.720 you only had to do one of those.

00:52:45.060 Mm-hmm.

00:52:45.340 And it changed after I left.

00:52:46.720 I'm just...

00:52:47.040 I think I got there

00:52:47.860 at the perfect time.

00:52:48.440 And so my first semester,

00:52:49.400 I did that class

00:52:50.020 and it was race, religion,

00:52:53.280 sexuality,

00:52:54.020 and Asian American literature.

00:52:55.860 And it was the one

00:52:57.000 intersectional class

00:52:58.300 available that semester

00:52:59.560 and I just thought,

00:53:00.280 let me just get it out of the way.

00:53:02.180 And my final paper,

00:53:04.060 I don't remember

00:53:04.400 what the book was,

00:53:06.040 but it was the story

00:53:07.280 of a man who had immigrated here,

00:53:09.560 possibly from Taiwan,

00:53:13.420 and told his story

00:53:15.860 of assimilating

00:53:17.580 into American culture

00:53:18.380 the struggle

00:53:18.900 of being an immigrant.

00:53:21.120 Alleged racism, 0.72

00:53:22.320 he was also gay 0.57

00:53:24.600 and was dealing with that.

00:53:26.540 And what my professor,

00:53:31.320 her conclusion

00:53:32.340 from this novel

00:53:33.540 was that he had faced racism

00:53:35.680 and that was the...

00:53:36.980 He had endured racism

00:53:37.780 and that was why

00:53:38.440 he had all of these

00:53:38.960 mental health struggles

00:53:39.540 and the character

00:53:39.980 was incredibly flawed,

00:53:41.720 incredibly depressed,

00:53:43.540 was just a terrible human being.

00:53:45.640 And the thing that she 0.85

00:53:46.920 did not bring up

00:53:48.140 or did not touch

00:53:48.680 was that he was sexually assaulted

00:53:50.180 halfway through the book.

00:53:51.800 And that's when

00:53:52.560 all the behavior started.

00:53:53.460 So my take on it

00:53:55.940 was I argued

00:53:57.000 that it was not

00:53:57.820 necessarily racism.

00:53:59.240 I said I'm sure

00:53:59.920 that he experienced some

00:54:01.880 immigrating to America

00:54:03.100 in the 70s.

00:54:04.420 However,

00:54:04.920 all of this behavior

00:54:05.540 started after he was

00:54:06.660 sexually assaulted

00:54:07.460 and then he became depressed. 1.00

00:54:09.280 He was mentally ill. 0.99

00:54:10.100 Where could you possibly 1.00

00:54:10.980 go in the world

00:54:11.780 that would be less racist

00:54:13.600 than California

00:54:15.240 in the 1970s?

00:54:16.460 Yeah, right.

00:54:17.020 Oh my God.

00:54:17.620 And so that was my argument.

00:54:19.300 And we had to give her

00:54:21.340 our thesis statement

00:54:22.240 prior to writing the essay

00:54:23.740 and signed off on it.

00:54:26.120 She said,

00:54:26.880 sounds so interesting.

00:54:27.560 We had to go around 0.50

00:54:28.400 the class,

00:54:29.280 read it out loud.

00:54:30.040 People would give notes on it.

00:54:30.980 That's really interesting.

00:54:32.100 When I got my paper back,

00:54:34.620 I think I got a D

00:54:36.260 and I had never,

00:54:38.400 that was the first time

00:54:39.060 that I had not gotten

00:54:39.900 the sound so pompous.

00:54:41.560 I had never gotten anything

00:54:42.340 other than an A

00:54:42.920 on a paper before.

00:54:43.860 I was a 4.0 student.

00:54:46.360 I had gotten a,

00:54:47.340 you know,

00:54:48.560 a B

00:54:49.020 in my

00:54:50.080 entry-level statistics class

00:54:51.540 my first year

00:54:52.360 of community college.

00:54:53.320 Other than that,

00:54:53.920 straight A's.

00:54:54.640 I was crushed.

00:54:55.960 Absolutely crushed.

00:54:57.320 And

00:54:57.720 in the

00:54:59.080 margins,

00:55:00.280 she had written

00:55:00.860 I fundamentally disagree

00:55:02.240 with your thesis.

00:55:04.080 And then all of her notes

00:55:05.880 where she had a couple

00:55:06.580 about the way

00:55:07.040 that I had structured it,

00:55:08.040 but they were that

00:55:08.920 your take on this novel

00:55:10.420 is fundamentally wrong.

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00:56:31.440 Hell of a thing

00:56:33.140 for a post-modernist

00:56:34.060 to say.

00:56:35.020 Shattered my worldview

00:56:35.940 about English literature

00:56:37.500 and about the higher

00:56:38.440 education system.

00:56:39.380 I was just like,

00:56:39.780 okay, well,

00:56:40.060 I'm in for a treat

00:56:40.740 for the next,

00:56:41.520 you know,

00:56:42.400 two years of my life.

00:56:43.880 And after that,

00:56:45.620 I was able to skate by.

00:56:47.080 I did not do any more

00:56:47.820 of those intersectional classes.

00:56:49.360 My schedule,

00:56:50.100 I would give,

00:56:50.960 I would make myself wake up.

00:56:53.340 I lived off campus.

00:56:54.220 I'd make myself wake up

00:56:54.860 at 5 a.m.

00:56:55.440 to beat the traffic

00:56:56.200 to take an 8 a.m.

00:56:57.820 class all the way

00:56:58.980 across town.

00:56:59.680 conservative value.

00:57:00.720 Yeah, I would get up.

00:57:01.340 Waking up in the morning.

00:57:03.380 To avoid doing classes

00:57:04.500 like that.

00:57:04.880 So I would only do

00:57:06.060 Milton from this year

00:57:07.920 to this year.

00:57:09.080 I would only do Dickens.

00:57:10.060 It was very,

00:57:10.640 very author-focused.

00:57:11.660 And that was intentional.

00:57:12.000 So you took a very proactive

00:57:13.100 strategy.

00:57:14.540 And so that's why.

00:57:15.180 Yeah, okay, got it.

00:57:16.220 And because of that,

00:57:16.920 I loved it.

00:57:17.620 Right.

00:57:17.920 I truly did.

00:57:18.580 Well, look,

00:57:19.200 one of the ways

00:57:20.720 that it,

00:57:23.080 one of the things

00:57:23.700 you have to do

00:57:24.360 to be successful

00:57:25.420 at university

00:57:26.240 is to take

00:57:27.240 an active role

00:57:27.920 in finding the professors

00:57:29.680 and finding the courses.

00:57:30.980 You have to,

00:57:31.480 you have to

00:57:33.800 search them out.

00:57:34.820 And once you have

00:57:35.500 a good professor,

00:57:36.140 you need to stick with them.

00:57:37.280 But you have to discover them.

00:57:38.540 You have to explore.

00:57:39.440 And job opportunities

00:57:40.320 on top of that,

00:57:41.140 I think one thing

00:57:41.860 that I've been

00:57:42.500 just witnessing

00:57:43.800 as I saw some friends

00:57:45.260 that are graduating

00:57:45.880 from college

00:57:47.120 is that they are

00:57:49.300 not being set up

00:57:50.400 for career success

00:57:51.980 whatsoever.

00:57:52.660 There's no push

00:57:53.680 for internships.

00:57:54.500 There's no push

00:57:55.260 for work.

00:57:55.740 And that friend group

00:57:56.700 where I got hit in the head,

00:57:57.600 I don't think I finished

00:57:58.160 that story,

00:57:58.480 but I was hit in the head

00:57:59.040 with a communist manifesto

00:58:00.500 at a party.

00:58:01.180 Oh, yeah.

00:58:01.580 Yeah. 0.97

00:58:01.880 Hit in the head, 0.51

00:58:02.480 like literally?

00:58:03.280 Yeah, when I walked

00:58:03.940 into this party,

00:58:04.520 you know,

00:58:04.700 that was after my

00:58:05.600 I'm not going to vote

00:58:06.160 for Biden.

00:58:06.740 Yeah.

00:58:07.140 Popped in the head. 0.98

00:58:08.900 Throat chucked at my face.

00:58:10.140 Many people have been

00:58:10.980 hit in the head

00:58:11.500 by the communist manifesto. 0.95

00:58:13.160 I'm proud of it.

00:58:14.020 Yeah.

00:58:15.880 Where was I going

00:58:17.240 with this?

00:58:17.560 Oh, but in that friend group,

00:58:19.140 I was the only one

00:58:20.280 who had a job.

00:58:21.560 Not just a Trader Joe's job.

00:58:23.640 They did not have internships.

00:58:25.200 In their junior year,

00:58:26.960 and like their third quarter

00:58:28.560 junior year,

00:58:30.020 they got their first internship.

00:58:31.380 I had had an internship

00:58:32.380 every single semester.

00:58:33.260 I was working.

00:58:34.480 I took that proactive stance.

00:58:35.980 Right.

00:58:37.280 And colleges

00:58:37.940 do not encourage it.

00:58:39.020 Parents aren't encouraging it.

00:58:40.320 And so kids are going

00:58:41.000 into this four-year

00:58:41.840 environment thinking,

00:58:43.180 you know,

00:58:44.040 I'm going to go in,

00:58:44.680 you know,

00:58:44.980 $80,000 into debt.

00:58:46.860 I mean,

00:58:47.140 you talk about it

00:58:47.660 on Twitter all the time

00:58:48.460 and on your show

00:58:48.980 that, you know,

00:58:49.440 then you're popped out

00:58:50.220 into the world.

00:58:50.760 You're in debt.

00:58:51.560 You have a meaningless degree

00:58:53.020 and you have no job opportunities

00:58:55.740 because they haven't encouraged.

00:58:56.900 Yeah, none.

00:58:57.540 Yeah, yeah.

00:58:58.020 And my generation

00:58:58.680 is entering the workforce

00:58:59.720 later than any other generation 0.58

00:59:01.100 ever has before.

00:59:02.080 Mm-hmm.

00:59:02.900 It's just shocking.

00:59:04.120 So yes, you do.

00:59:04.660 If you are going to go to college,

00:59:05.660 and I still am

00:59:06.680 a lover of the liberal arts,

00:59:09.280 I still do love university.

00:59:10.600 I love that I went.

00:59:11.680 I love the things that I learned.

00:59:13.100 I love the essays that I wrote.

00:59:14.960 I'm such a nerd.

00:59:15.900 I, you know,

00:59:16.260 I had my transcript up on the wall

00:59:17.840 because I was so proud of it

00:59:18.680 in high school.

00:59:19.180 Like, I just,

00:59:19.660 I truly love it.

00:59:20.260 But you have to be

00:59:21.160 incredibly proactive.

00:59:22.140 It's not something

00:59:22.620 that you can just passively

00:59:23.480 skate through

00:59:24.620 if you want to,

00:59:25.360 you know, 0.98

00:59:25.600 suck the marrow out of it. 0.97

00:59:27.000 All right. 0.99

00:59:27.460 So let's talk about

00:59:28.660 your current projects.

00:59:29.840 Let's start with the podcast.

00:59:31.440 How did that set itself up?

00:59:32.900 I was doing social media

00:59:35.120 for a couple of different

00:59:35.840 political organizations,

00:59:37.220 Young Americans for Liberty,

00:59:38.440 Liberty,

00:59:39.480 Prager U in Los Angeles,

00:59:40.480 which is where I really

00:59:41.520 found community

00:59:42.100 in the midst of COVID

00:59:43.360 and BLM

00:59:44.000 and losing a lot of friends

00:59:44.740 at UCLA

00:59:45.140 and Foundation

00:59:46.420 for Economic Education.

00:59:47.840 How did you run across

00:59:48.660 Prager's group?

00:59:49.900 They have an incredible

00:59:51.880 student group

00:59:52.360 called Prager Force.

00:59:53.700 And at UCLA?

00:59:55.080 No.

00:59:55.960 Just generally.

00:59:57.100 Yes.

00:59:57.440 I see.

00:59:57.780 And it's an online group

00:59:59.360 and they have a Facebook group

01:00:00.460 and they have webinars

01:00:02.580 that you can join.

01:00:04.380 And I was,

01:00:05.740 I think if you had asked me

01:00:07.060 a year prior,

01:00:07.840 I would have been like,

01:00:08.320 I don't need that.

01:00:08.960 I don't want to go join

01:00:09.740 like a Zoom call

01:00:10.600 with a bunch of,

01:00:11.280 you know,

01:00:11.500 like-minded individuals

01:00:12.320 or whatever

01:00:12.760 because I didn't think

01:00:13.900 I needed it.

01:00:14.500 But I was so alienated.

01:00:15.560 The world was shut down.

01:00:16.300 I was living in California.

01:00:17.000 There was nothing I could do.

01:00:18.480 I felt so alone

01:00:19.620 and I was becoming

01:00:20.240 more and more political

01:00:21.620 by the day,

01:00:22.440 becoming much more aware

01:00:23.640 of the world around me,

01:00:24.720 current events.

01:00:25.200 My values were transforming

01:00:27.080 into something

01:00:27.580 that was very tangible

01:00:28.500 around me.

01:00:29.620 And I joined Prager Force.

01:00:31.200 I got to know

01:00:32.020 other young people

01:00:33.000 around the country,

01:00:33.860 around the world

01:00:34.300 that had similar values

01:00:35.240 and I got to know

01:00:35.980 the people at PragerU.

01:00:37.180 They knew that I was an actor.

01:00:38.460 They're also based

01:00:39.160 in Los Angeles

01:00:39.900 and they invited me

01:00:40.860 into their offices

01:00:41.920 and said,

01:00:42.240 we'd like to make videos for us.

01:00:43.500 I was like,

01:00:44.580 yes,

01:00:45.180 I have nothing else to do.

01:00:46.280 Hollywood is shut down

01:00:47.160 and bored out of my mind.

01:00:48.540 I want to do something

01:00:49.540 that's meaningful.

01:00:51.700 And then I jumped

01:00:52.800 from that to writing

01:00:54.020 and did some economic journalism

01:00:55.980 at Foundation for Economic Education

01:00:57.540 and did social media

01:00:58.180 for them as well.

01:00:59.200 Jumped to Young Americans 0.96

01:01:00.140 for Liberty,

01:01:01.060 running their TikTok

01:01:01.900 and Instagram accounts.

01:01:02.800 Oh yeah, oh yeah.

01:01:03.720 And so I had a growing,

01:01:07.120 I wouldn't say big

01:01:07.820 because it's more compared

01:01:08.760 to where I am now,

01:01:09.360 but I had a growing

01:01:10.140 Instagram presence

01:01:11.040 just through TikToks

01:01:12.860 and Reels,

01:01:13.280 all short form.

01:01:14.360 And then I woke up one day

01:01:17.320 and saw a DM

01:01:17.940 from Daily Wire

01:01:18.600 and they said,

01:01:19.360 hey, we've been loving

01:01:20.000 your content on Instagram.

01:01:22.400 Would you want to-

01:01:23.040 And that was what year?

01:01:24.300 That was 2021.

01:01:26.540 2021.

01:01:27.280 Okay, so it's three years ago now.

01:01:28.880 Yeah.

01:01:29.140 Yeah, okay.

01:01:29.720 So you got a DM from who?

01:01:32.060 It was a producer at Daily Wire.

01:01:33.760 I see.

01:01:34.200 And she was like

01:01:34.640 the social media video producer.

01:01:36.700 And she had been tasked

01:01:38.260 with finding a couple of people

01:01:40.780 that were doing well

01:01:42.300 on social media,

01:01:42.900 young people.

01:01:44.660 And because they,

01:01:45.740 a member of their team

01:01:46.680 who worked on the YouTube channels,

01:01:48.240 he had the idea

01:01:49.400 that we needed a YouTube show.

01:01:51.360 And he was,

01:01:52.240 these were all people

01:01:53.020 that were around my age.

01:01:54.120 And it was very, very cool.

01:01:54.960 And I think a lot of people

01:01:55.800 look at my show

01:01:57.360 and people that have critiqued me before

01:01:58.960 and they imagine,

01:01:59.920 you know,

01:02:00.100 Jeremy Boring sitting in his glass office

01:02:01.520 being like,

01:02:02.080 I need to get the youth.

01:02:03.660 So like,

01:02:03.820 I knew whatever,

01:02:04.200 it was all this was,

01:02:05.160 like,

01:02:05.260 I'm going to create something

01:02:06.200 for the young people.

01:02:07.380 It was all people my age.

01:02:09.580 They were sitting

01:02:10.320 in the Daily Wire offices

01:02:11.140 saying,

01:02:11.820 we need content for us.

01:02:14.300 We want something

01:02:15.440 that we will watch,

01:02:16.640 that we relate to,

01:02:17.260 that is based on YouTube,

01:02:18.420 that's based on the internet.

01:02:19.300 And so,

01:02:20.140 they tasked this video producer

01:02:22.280 with findings people

01:02:23.320 that were already out in the world

01:02:24.060 doing that.

01:02:24.580 So I got a DM

01:02:25.080 and they said,

01:02:25.800 would you be interested

01:02:26.360 in launching a show with us?

01:02:29.660 Well,

01:02:30.060 they say,

01:02:30.480 you know,

01:02:30.660 it takes 10 years

01:02:31.460 to become an overnight success.

01:02:33.000 And you've certainly put in

01:02:33.820 your 10 years

01:02:34.500 and you said

01:02:35.020 you'd accumulated

01:02:35.660 all the social media experience

01:02:37.940 and you'd said yes

01:02:39.440 to a lot of things.

01:02:40.400 You said yes to Prager,

01:02:41.560 you said yes to

01:02:42.500 Young Americans for Liberty,

01:02:44.600 et cetera.

01:02:45.680 Funnily,

01:02:46.200 I almost said no to Daily Wire.

01:02:48.000 Uh-huh.

01:02:48.560 I was too scared

01:02:49.440 because it felt like

01:02:50.680 the big leagues.

01:02:51.500 Like,

01:02:51.660 I had looked at Daily Wire,

01:02:52.500 I had applied for,

01:02:53.900 I had applied to be

01:02:54.600 Candace's assistant.

01:02:55.680 This was all during

01:02:56.720 my graduating year,

01:02:58.720 like that spring.

01:02:59.480 I had applied to be

01:03:00.200 Candace's assistant.

01:03:01.120 I had applied to be

01:03:01.900 a producer on Ben's show.

01:03:04.200 I had applied

01:03:04.980 for some social media role.

01:03:06.760 I just,

01:03:06.980 and then you got

01:03:08.260 a bigger offer.

01:03:09.120 I got a bigger offer

01:03:09.960 and I got no interviews

01:03:11.480 for any of those roles.

01:03:12.480 And granted,

01:03:12.900 I was not really qualified

01:03:13.800 for any of them

01:03:14.600 and I could have.

01:03:16.440 So what scared you

01:03:17.460 about the Daily Wire offer?

01:03:19.740 It felt huge.

01:03:20.940 I felt like I wasn't ready.

01:03:22.420 And I also think I was.

01:03:23.280 Well, you probably weren't.

01:03:23.920 No,

01:03:24.420 and you know,

01:03:24.700 that's the good thing.

01:03:25.360 You just,

01:03:25.720 you know,

01:03:25.900 jump in head first. 0.76

01:03:26.420 Yeah,

01:03:26.600 well,

01:03:26.840 that's the thing.

01:03:27.780 You know,

01:03:27.940 when you make

01:03:28.380 a status transition,

01:03:29.900 if it's a major transition,

01:03:33.060 you can't be ready

01:03:34.720 when it first happens.

01:03:35.700 Because this is partly

01:03:37.040 why faith is necessary

01:03:38.580 in life,

01:03:39.240 because when you make

01:03:42.720 a major transition,

01:03:43.760 first of all,

01:03:44.200 you don't know

01:03:44.560 what you're in for.

01:03:45.400 You have no idea.

01:03:46.580 Like,

01:03:46.780 maybe it'll work

01:03:47.340 and maybe it won't,

01:03:48.060 but the evidence isn't there,

01:03:49.980 you know?

01:03:50.520 And then the next thing is,

01:03:52.820 well,

01:03:53.020 you don't necessarily know

01:03:54.160 that you can do it.

01:03:55.160 Why?

01:03:55.580 Well,

01:03:55.720 you haven't done it.

01:03:56.640 It's a new thing.

01:03:57.980 Well,

01:03:58.160 so how else can you move forward

01:04:00.180 in a situation like that

01:04:02.020 except in faith,

01:04:03.100 you know?

01:04:03.280 And you said your mother

01:04:04.180 helped you with this,

01:04:05.200 but that you had

01:04:06.080 already learned

01:04:08.140 that you could take tasks

01:04:09.980 upon yourself

01:04:10.760 and grow into them,

01:04:11.880 right?

01:04:12.180 And so,

01:04:13.100 you said,

01:04:13.680 even though you had done

01:04:14.860 a lot of that,

01:04:15.620 that the Daily Wire

01:04:16.780 offer intimidated you.

01:04:18.220 What was the offer exactly?

01:04:19.500 Was it to start

01:04:20.080 your own YouTube channel?

01:04:21.140 Yes,

01:04:21.440 it was to start the show.

01:04:22.560 Okay,

01:04:22.960 and how was that outlined?

01:04:24.460 Like a number of times a week?

01:04:25.820 Like the full-fledged

01:04:26.820 YouTube show?

01:04:26.980 It was not even,

01:04:27.640 and so I turned it down

01:04:29.860 even before any of that.

01:04:31.460 I,

01:04:32.040 and obviously didn't

01:04:32.720 fully turn it down,

01:04:33.660 but I didn't even want

01:04:35.500 to send in an audition tape

01:04:36.580 at first

01:04:37.100 because they wanted me,

01:04:38.420 they knew that I had done

01:04:39.220 short form videos

01:04:41.000 and they said,

01:04:42.340 could you,

01:04:42.660 here's a couple of things

01:04:43.400 that are going on

01:04:43.820 in the world right now.

01:04:44.420 Could you do a longer form

01:04:45.420 reaction to this

01:04:46.580 and just,

01:04:47.440 you know,

01:04:47.740 talk off the top

01:04:48.520 of your head,

01:04:49.240 give your tape

01:04:49.720 on culture.

01:04:50.760 Yes,

01:04:51.160 and I got so scared

01:04:54.020 and I didn't even want

01:04:54.820 to send in a tape

01:04:55.540 and I think that it was

01:04:56.220 because I was out of practice

01:04:57.560 taking risks.

01:04:58.800 For 10 years

01:04:59.800 in Hollywood,

01:05:01.520 I would audition

01:05:02.200 four to five times a week.

01:05:04.120 I was told no

01:05:05.440 99% of the time

01:05:06.760 and you have to be okay

01:05:07.660 with that.

01:05:08.280 Right.

01:05:08.380 I would take huge risks.

01:05:10.640 I, you know,

01:05:10.860 moved across the country

01:05:11.960 writing a letter

01:05:12.720 to a manager.

01:05:13.620 That's why kids

01:05:13.980 have to be allowed to fail.

01:05:15.580 Yes.

01:05:15.720 That's why they have to lose

01:05:17.060 in competitions.

01:05:18.360 They have to learn.

01:05:19.180 Yeah.

01:05:19.580 I lost a lot.

01:05:20.560 Well,

01:05:21.080 the thing is,

01:05:22.160 you know,

01:05:22.360 you skipped over something there

01:05:23.900 and you said,

01:05:24.560 you know,

01:05:24.760 when you went to

01:05:25.280 all these auditions,

01:05:26.080 you've been successful

01:05:26.940 but your success rate

01:05:28.760 was like 1%.

01:05:29.780 Right.

01:05:30.820 Well,

01:05:30.920 that's a lot of failure

01:05:31.900 and most occupations

01:05:33.680 are like that.

01:05:34.480 Most,

01:05:34.780 like a job search

01:05:35.520 is like that.

01:05:36.020 Yes.

01:05:36.560 Right.

01:05:36.800 If you do a comprehensive

01:05:37.620 job search,

01:05:38.400 the probability

01:05:39.000 that you'll get rejected

01:05:40.660 for any given position

01:05:41.640 is like above 90%.

01:05:44.100 And so if you're not

01:05:45.620 accustomed to that,

01:05:46.900 well,

01:05:47.180 what are you going to do?

01:05:48.100 Exactly.

01:05:48.400 You think that,

01:05:49.460 you think the world

01:05:51.140 is against you

01:05:52.000 when the situation

01:05:53.880 is actually that

01:05:54.920 moving forward

01:05:56.920 productively

01:05:57.640 is rather unlikely

01:05:58.720 and the default answer

01:06:00.140 is generally no.

01:06:01.800 Most jobs

01:06:02.540 that are advertised,

01:06:03.300 for example,

01:06:03.680 don't even exist.

01:06:04.500 They have an internal candidate.

01:06:05.640 Yeah.

01:06:05.900 So you're not going to get that job.

01:06:07.480 It's posted for,

01:06:08.600 like,

01:06:09.660 technical reasons.

01:06:11.260 So they're going to say no to you.

01:06:12.980 It has nothing to do with you.

01:06:14.220 It has to do with

01:06:14.900 base rate of rejection.

01:06:16.620 Yes.

01:06:17.020 Right.

01:06:17.280 The base rate of rejection

01:06:18.520 in the world

01:06:18.980 is very, very high,

01:06:19.980 but it's not 100%.

01:06:21.060 Right.

01:06:22.340 So you keep on plugging away

01:06:23.880 and you have to be resilient

01:06:25.420 enough to do that.

01:06:26.480 Okay.

01:06:26.700 So how did you change your mind?

01:06:28.580 My mom yelled at me. 1.00

01:06:29.780 Oh, good.

01:06:30.180 Yeah.

01:06:30.620 She did.

01:06:31.080 Oh, yeah.

01:06:32.500 And she said, 1.00

01:06:33.280 you were being an idiot. 1.00

01:06:33.980 And she said, 1.00

01:06:34.360 I don't care if you don't get this.

01:06:35.880 I don't care if you don't

01:06:36.620 actually take the job later on. 0.80

01:06:38.320 But you are shooting yourself

01:06:39.460 in the foot.

01:06:39.760 This opportunity does,

01:06:40.760 you know,

01:06:40.980 it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

01:06:42.260 Right, right.

01:06:42.560 And she said,

01:06:42.900 you've been trying to get in

01:06:44.140 with The Daily Wire.

01:06:44.720 I had already seen what

01:06:45.340 Jeremy was talking about

01:06:46.420 with what he wanted to do

01:06:48.120 with creating a parallel

01:06:49.500 to Hollywood.

01:06:50.160 All of it.

01:06:50.620 I was completely bought in.

01:06:52.540 I watched Matt and Michael constantly.

01:06:54.740 They had just brought on Candace. 0.87

01:06:56.060 I was just like,

01:06:56.800 I,

01:06:57.200 these are my people.

01:06:58.740 And I felt like I could

01:07:00.020 learn a lot from them.

01:07:00.940 But then when this opportunity

01:07:01.840 came around that was so big,

01:07:02.980 I went,

01:07:03.240 oh,

01:07:03.840 no,

01:07:04.500 no,

01:07:04.640 no,

01:07:04.740 no.

01:07:04.840 I didn't teach you to ask for it.

01:07:06.640 Yeah.

01:07:07.360 And she yelled at me. 1.00

01:07:08.860 And I did it.

01:07:10.660 And it all took place.

01:07:12.000 And I also think

01:07:12.720 what you were saying

01:07:13.680 about humans needing

01:07:14.800 routine and habit.

01:07:16.880 For my entire life,

01:07:17.980 like we've already outlined,

01:07:20.500 it's been up and down tumultuous.

01:07:21.820 For the first time

01:07:22.700 at this point in my life,

01:07:23.580 I had normalcy

01:07:25.800 and structure.

01:07:26.740 And my mom had just bought a farm

01:07:28.340 and I was living

01:07:29.100 five minutes away from her.

01:07:30.460 I was working as a waitress

01:07:32.100 at a really nice restaurant

01:07:33.760 and I was doing

01:07:34.600 these social media jobs.

01:07:36.040 I had gotten into law school.

01:07:38.320 I withdrew from law school

01:07:39.200 because I decided

01:07:39.660 there's no reason for me

01:07:41.180 to be a liar. 0.74

01:07:41.680 I should not be a liar. 0.63

01:07:42.720 But I was going to,

01:07:44.980 I was wanting to plant

01:07:46.220 down roots where I was.

01:07:48.060 Where were you living?

01:07:49.160 I was in Boise, Idaho.

01:07:50.220 This is a whole,

01:07:51.420 we don't need to spend

01:07:52.200 that time to do that.

01:07:52.940 But yes.

01:07:53.840 And I thought,

01:07:55.280 this is where I just want to be.

01:07:56.380 I want to find a nice guy.

01:07:58.060 I want to get married.

01:07:58.700 I want to work in marketing.

01:07:59.900 I want to be near my mom.

01:08:01.320 And I had bought two horses

01:08:02.600 that were on her farm.

01:08:03.600 I just want to live.

01:08:04.840 This is just normal

01:08:05.620 and it's safe.

01:08:07.040 And I think for the first time

01:08:08.740 it was just so comfortable.

01:08:10.560 And I didn't want to,

01:08:11.520 I didn't want to ruin that.

01:08:13.700 And she said,

01:08:15.720 this is not the time

01:08:16.540 to be afraid.

01:08:17.760 This is not the time

01:08:18.420 to be risk averse.

01:08:19.720 This is what you've been working for

01:08:20.880 for 10 years.

01:08:21.680 Right, right, right.

01:08:22.180 And you get to be.

01:08:22.960 You know, it's very common.

01:08:24.440 I see this,

01:08:25.140 I saw this a lot

01:08:26.080 when I was working with people.

01:08:27.760 Mm-hmm.

01:08:28.040 People say no

01:08:30.960 to what they want.

01:08:31.880 Yeah.

01:08:32.420 Right.

01:08:32.880 And they do that

01:08:33.680 in micro ways, right?

01:08:35.760 And then they do it

01:08:36.620 now and then in major ways.

01:08:37.940 And then the opportunities

01:08:38.940 dry up.

01:08:39.680 They do.

01:08:40.040 And they think,

01:08:40.960 why are there no opportunities

01:08:42.300 coming my way?

01:08:43.160 It's like,

01:08:44.080 you have to say,

01:08:45.640 you have to be prepared

01:08:46.540 for a lot of failure

01:08:47.720 and you have to say yes

01:08:49.460 enthusiastically

01:08:51.060 whenever an opportunity

01:08:53.240 makes itself present.

01:08:54.580 And then they multiply.

01:08:55.520 But boy,

01:08:57.340 it's partly too

01:08:59.500 because people actually,

01:09:00.840 they don't have faith

01:09:02.620 that it's okay

01:09:04.560 if good things happen to them.

01:09:07.080 Right?

01:09:07.380 They don't feel

01:09:07.940 that they're worthy of it.

01:09:09.200 Mm-hmm.

01:09:09.460 And so,

01:09:10.500 you know,

01:09:10.740 and sometimes that's understandable.

01:09:12.080 It's not surprising

01:09:12.980 that you were nervous

01:09:13.760 about having to move

01:09:14.940 from making short-form content

01:09:16.360 that's,

01:09:16.980 was it scripted

01:09:17.740 to short-form content?

01:09:18.440 No.

01:09:18.580 No, okay.

01:09:19.180 So at least you had that.

01:09:20.060 I still had that, yeah.

01:09:20.580 Right, so you were doing it.

01:09:21.700 And it was a physical move

01:09:22.600 across the country.

01:09:23.280 It was leaving

01:09:23.820 my mother

01:09:25.080 who had been my rock

01:09:27.100 through this entire career,

01:09:29.080 obviously my entire childhood,

01:09:30.240 moving across the country

01:09:31.060 within two weeks.

01:09:32.220 Right.

01:09:32.840 To, as I said.

01:09:33.760 To Nashville.

01:09:34.700 To Nashville.

01:09:35.160 Yeah, yeah.

01:09:35.820 And again,

01:09:36.500 just working the big leagues.

01:09:37.980 Like, I mean,

01:09:38.560 I walked in and just,

01:09:40.620 you know,

01:09:40.860 Matt Walsh walks by

01:09:41.640 and I'm like,

01:09:42.380 you know,

01:09:42.940 this is somebody

01:09:43.420 who I've looked up to.

01:09:45.960 It was incredibly intimidating.

01:09:47.520 I'm so,

01:09:47.880 I'm so glad

01:09:50.060 that I did.

01:09:50.580 When I think about it

01:09:51.420 too much,

01:09:52.140 it just makes me want to cry

01:09:53.200 because interestingly,

01:09:56.700 and I was talking about this

01:09:57.400 on a live stream,

01:09:58.360 at my wedding

01:09:59.160 just a couple of weeks ago,

01:09:59.960 one of my bridesmaids

01:10:00.680 gave a speech

01:10:01.240 and she's been my friend

01:10:02.560 for 11 years or so.

01:10:04.580 We were 15,

01:10:05.380 we were at Disneyland

01:10:05.940 and she remembers

01:10:07.480 a specific conversation

01:10:08.320 where I said,

01:10:08.880 there's three things

01:10:09.320 that I want in my life.

01:10:10.240 I want to be married,

01:10:11.960 I want to have a farm,

01:10:12.860 and I want to be successful

01:10:13.820 at whatever I'm doing.

01:10:15.140 I want to have

01:10:15.420 a successful career.

01:10:16.120 And at that time,

01:10:16.720 I thought that it was going to be,

01:10:17.640 you know,

01:10:17.880 a producer,

01:10:19.380 Reese Witherspoon-esque,

01:10:20.480 running some kind of

01:10:21.520 production company like that.

01:10:23.200 And so she stood up

01:10:24.220 at our rehearsal dinner

01:10:25.360 and she said,

01:10:27.300 you have just bought a farm.

01:10:29.440 I just bought,

01:10:30.280 you know,

01:10:30.480 60 acres

01:10:31.180 or something like that

01:10:32.080 and I,

01:10:33.240 and you're now

01:10:35.260 getting married tomorrow

01:10:36.100 to an incredible man

01:10:37.520 and you are successful.

01:10:40.200 And I think about

01:10:41.500 if I had not taken that risk,

01:10:43.280 I might have,

01:10:43.620 I might have had the farm,

01:10:45.180 my mom had a farm 0.99

01:10:46.080 a few minutes away,

01:10:46.700 it wouldn't have been mine,

01:10:47.800 it would have taken

01:10:48.160 a long time to do that.

01:10:49.120 I might have married

01:10:50.160 a really nice guy

01:10:51.680 but it would not have been

01:10:52.940 Alex who I adore.

01:10:54.540 I just think he,

01:10:55.620 worship the grounds

01:10:56.500 he walks on.

01:10:57.680 He's incredible.

01:10:58.980 And I would not have

01:11:00.100 this career now

01:11:01.500 that is so

01:11:02.420 perfectly harmonious

01:11:03.860 with everything

01:11:04.440 that I

01:11:05.060 loved about Hollywood.

01:11:07.320 I loved telling stories,

01:11:08.540 I loved being on camera,

01:11:09.420 I loved reaching people

01:11:10.560 through media

01:11:12.000 while also

01:11:14.000 being true to myself

01:11:15.200 and not compromising

01:11:16.660 my values.

01:11:17.960 It is perfectly harmonious.

01:11:19.960 So your channel

01:11:20.840 grew like mad. 0.95

01:11:21.880 Crazy. 0.98

01:11:22.240 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:22.820 I had a million subscribers

01:11:23.860 in five months.

01:11:25.500 Right.

01:11:25.900 And you're up to

01:11:26.420 about 4.3,

01:11:28.300 something like that

01:11:28.960 now on YouTube.

01:11:29.400 In two years.

01:11:30.520 Right, right, right.

01:11:31.640 So obviously

01:11:33.040 you could do it.

01:11:34.080 Yeah.

01:11:34.600 Right, right.

01:11:35.560 So that's,

01:11:36.020 well,

01:11:36.480 so that's extremely interesting.

01:11:38.400 And I will say,

01:11:40.080 and it wasn't,

01:11:40.720 I think,

01:11:40.980 that we found

01:11:42.500 an important niche

01:11:44.640 and,

01:11:46.100 but I also do believe,

01:11:47.200 as you said,

01:11:47.700 I did put in the time.

01:11:48.960 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:49.500 I had 10 years

01:11:50.000 and so I think

01:11:50.460 it's a combination of that

01:11:51.500 and I will often discredit that.

01:11:52.860 Preparation and opportunity,

01:11:53.980 like they have to melt,

01:11:55.060 melt.

01:11:55.260 And then,

01:11:55.920 and then you have to strike

01:11:57.320 when the iron is hot.

01:11:58.480 I mean,

01:11:59.200 timing is crucial

01:12:00.680 and you had this opportunity

01:12:01.980 and you did take it.

01:12:03.100 What are you doing?

01:12:04.740 Why is what you're doing working?

01:12:06.600 And why did it start

01:12:07.520 working so quickly?

01:12:08.380 What do you think,

01:12:09.140 like you're very upbeat,

01:12:10.740 you're very enthusiastic,

01:12:12.420 you're,

01:12:12.920 you,

01:12:13.260 so you've got the charisma

01:12:14.280 that goes along with that.

01:12:15.920 What,

01:12:16.680 why don't you characterize

01:12:17.600 a typical show

01:12:18.560 and,

01:12:18.960 and why don't you walk me through

01:12:20.260 why you think it works?

01:12:22.280 I think it works because,

01:12:24.880 like you said,

01:12:27.460 I do approach things

01:12:28.360 with a positive attitude.

01:12:30.120 I think a lot of

01:12:31.360 content online right now

01:12:33.500 is incredibly

01:12:34.460 angry,

01:12:36.580 especially things that are,

01:12:39.120 you know,

01:12:39.340 I don't want to just say political,

01:12:40.440 but also cultural,

01:12:41.460 cultural commentary.

01:12:42.440 It's very angry.

01:12:43.400 It's very intense.

01:12:44.600 Yeah.

01:12:45.360 And,

01:12:45.740 with my personality,

01:12:48.020 I think I have been able,

01:12:48.980 and my sense of humor

01:12:50.200 and my levity

01:12:51.000 and the fact that I,

01:12:51.920 you know,

01:12:52.860 I take myself,

01:12:53.800 my work very seriously,

01:12:55.240 but,

01:12:55.580 you know,

01:12:55.760 I can laugh at anything.

01:12:57.060 I think that if you're not laughing

01:12:57.900 about something,

01:12:58.240 you're crying about it,

01:12:58.940 so you might as well find humor

01:12:59.820 and I think that humor

01:13:00.320 is an incredibly important way

01:13:01.740 to reach people.

01:13:03.020 I think that is something

01:13:03.640 that my show does

01:13:04.220 really,

01:13:04.620 really well

01:13:04.980 and it's the kind of show

01:13:07.460 that I would want to watch

01:13:08.240 and kind of like I said

01:13:08.840 at the beginning

01:13:09.300 when we sat down,

01:13:11.300 this is something

01:13:11.900 I did not have.

01:13:12.700 I knew that this

01:13:13.860 needed to exist

01:13:14.760 because I would look around

01:13:17.260 and I,

01:13:18.420 like I've said,

01:13:18.920 like,

01:13:19.020 you know,

01:13:19.180 I watched your YouTube videos.

01:13:20.860 I would watch Michael.

01:13:22.860 I would watch Ben debate.

01:13:24.280 You know,

01:13:24.500 I have,

01:13:25.080 you know,

01:13:25.380 his line about,

01:13:28.720 you know,

01:13:28.900 in that debate,

01:13:29.700 I don't remember where it was.

01:13:30.660 It might have been

01:13:30.940 UC Santa Barbara

01:13:31.660 or something

01:13:32.140 where,

01:13:33.020 you know,

01:13:33.320 that kid said,

01:13:34.300 well,

01:13:35.520 how do you know

01:13:35.980 that girls can't be 1.00

01:13:36.580 in Boy Scouts?

01:13:37.100 He's like,

01:13:37.320 it's in the name.

01:13:37.840 Like,

01:13:37.960 I watched all of those debates.

01:13:39.840 I was constantly consuming that.

01:13:41.440 I didn't see myself represented

01:13:44.600 and it's weird for me to say that

01:13:46.060 because I will often critique Hollywood,

01:13:48.800 always saying,

01:13:49.180 you need to be represented,

01:13:49.800 you need to be represented,

01:13:50.440 but in this case,

01:13:51.120 I do believe that it was important

01:13:52.120 because I did not see

01:13:53.220 a young person.

01:13:55.020 Well,

01:13:55.240 that means you occupied.

01:13:55.860 Look,

01:13:56.260 there's two ways of looking at that.

01:13:57.620 You can whine and complain

01:13:58.640 about the victimization

01:13:59.680 or you can see

01:14:00.460 that that's a market opportunity

01:14:01.680 because the niche

01:14:02.380 has been filled.

01:14:03.260 Yeah.

01:14:03.520 Right.

01:14:03.780 Well,

01:14:03.900 the social media landscape

01:14:04.940 is pretty new.

01:14:06.020 It's not surprising

01:14:06.900 that all the niches 1.00

01:14:07.780 aren't filled.

01:14:08.560 Yeah.

01:14:09.300 And so you filled,

01:14:11.020 and this is why

01:14:11.580 I compared you a bit

01:14:12.440 to Candice earlier,

01:14:13.260 is that you filled

01:14:14.260 a relatively rare niche,

01:14:16.140 which is young,

01:14:17.220 female,

01:14:17.880 conservative,

01:14:18.540 commentators,

01:14:19.380 right?

01:14:19.520 And I also think-

01:14:20.340 Who are entertaining,

01:14:20.960 right?

01:14:21.160 And engaging.

01:14:21.940 Well,

01:14:22.460 you know,

01:14:22.840 that's a lot of combinations of,

01:14:24.860 that's a lot of rare traits combined.

01:14:27.440 And I also think

01:14:28.120 on more on the right,

01:14:29.500 whether you're a libertarian

01:14:30.540 or conservative

01:14:31.020 or classical liberal,

01:14:32.360 the women that I saw

01:14:33.500 were either,

01:14:34.340 and this is not talking down

01:14:35.780 to any of them whatsoever,

01:14:36.640 it just wasn't me.

01:14:37.720 I either saw,

01:14:38.940 you know,

01:14:39.160 the Trump intern type girls 0.99

01:14:40.720 in their pencil skirts,

01:14:41.640 the DC,

01:14:42.880 you know,

01:14:43.260 politicos.

01:14:44.060 Right, right.

01:14:44.560 Or I saw,

01:14:45.680 you know,

01:14:46.900 the hunters and the-

01:14:48.080 You're a creative conservative.

01:14:49.260 Those are very rare creatures.

01:14:50.380 Yeah.

01:14:50.660 I saw like the outdoorsy hunters.

01:14:52.480 Yeah.

01:14:52.640 I think that they're amazing,

01:14:53.560 but that wasn't like,

01:14:54.680 I was in a very weird box

01:14:57.460 where I just felt like

01:14:58.600 I'm a normal girl

01:14:59.980 and why do I not have anybody

01:15:02.920 to watch that sharing my values

01:15:04.680 that has a take on things

01:15:05.960 that I can relate to

01:15:07.260 that I feel like I'm,

01:15:08.680 like I'm not crazy

01:15:09.780 for the things that I believe.

01:15:11.200 And so I think

01:15:11.620 that is one of the primary reasons

01:15:12.760 why it just took off immediately

01:15:15.540 because young people-

01:15:16.960 Well,

01:15:17.120 you hit the target.

01:15:18.280 I did, yeah.

01:15:18.860 There was a gap there.

01:15:19.960 Yeah.

01:15:20.440 Yeah, yeah.

01:15:20.860 And I think,

01:15:21.480 you know,

01:15:22.060 again,

01:15:22.360 the humor and my personality

01:15:23.820 and I really,

01:15:24.840 I care about it

01:15:26.020 and I care about my audience a lot.

01:15:28.020 I genuinely care about them.

01:15:30.140 I genuinely want to get good content for them

01:15:31.840 when I meet them in person.

01:15:33.360 Yeah, that's really important.

01:15:34.480 It is.

01:15:35.060 And I,

01:15:35.900 because I see myself in them

01:15:37.280 and I still do.

01:15:38.120 I don't look at them as like,

01:15:39.200 oh, you were me a few years ago.

01:15:40.260 Like I am creating things

01:15:41.660 that if I wasn't doing this,

01:15:42.720 I would want to be watching.

01:15:43.700 Right.

01:15:43.980 And I would want somebody

01:15:44.760 to care about me.

01:15:45.380 How's the Daily Wire

01:15:46.180 been to work with in that regard?

01:15:47.840 Incredible.

01:15:48.360 Yeah, I've had the same experience.

01:15:50.280 Yeah.

01:15:50.460 Yeah, they,

01:15:51.440 there's two things they do for me.

01:15:53.080 Mm-hmm.

01:15:53.360 The first is,

01:15:54.380 they leave me the hell alone.

01:15:55.480 Yeah.

01:15:56.160 Well, the thing is,

01:15:57.100 if you hire someone

01:15:58.060 who's on a journey,

01:16:02.520 let's say,

01:16:02.860 a creative journey,

01:16:04.140 and you box them in,

01:16:06.180 then that's the end of them.

01:16:07.860 Right?

01:16:08.080 I struggled with this continually

01:16:09.520 at the university

01:16:10.480 as it degenerated

01:16:11.860 because I loved my job.

01:16:13.320 I loved doing research.

01:16:14.320 I loved being a professor.

01:16:15.980 I very much enjoyed being a clinician.

01:16:19.760 But I wanted to be left alone

01:16:21.300 so I could do it.

01:16:22.400 At minimum.

01:16:23.360 At minimum.

01:16:24.280 Just don't get in my way

01:16:27.380 when I'm doing the job

01:16:28.740 you hired me to do.

01:16:29.620 Yeah.

01:16:29.740 Like, that's the minimum requirement.

01:16:31.320 There's another requirement, too,

01:16:32.700 which is,

01:16:33.980 well, how about I bring you

01:16:34.920 a creative idea

01:16:35.820 and you jump on board?

01:16:36.940 And one of the things

01:16:37.960 that's really characterized

01:16:38.960 my relationship

01:16:39.800 with the Daily Wire

01:16:40.620 is that they've said yes

01:16:42.340 to preposterous projects

01:16:43.820 and, like, right away

01:16:44.760 and backed them.

01:16:45.660 They did that

01:16:46.100 with the Exodus seminar I did,

01:16:47.460 which is very high risk.

01:16:48.640 It's a very high risk project.

01:16:50.740 We did a gospel seminar

01:16:51.900 and a Western civilization project.

01:16:53.640 These were complex projects.

01:16:55.220 They whipped them up very quickly.

01:16:57.380 They did that well?

01:16:58.680 Very quickly.

01:16:59.840 It was stunning.

01:17:00.660 And they,

01:17:01.460 not only did they

01:17:02.420 green light them

01:17:03.780 almost immediately

01:17:04.920 and then we went ahead

01:17:05.920 with them right away,

01:17:07.220 but they also

01:17:08.160 edited them

01:17:09.120 extremely professionally,

01:17:10.380 produced them

01:17:10.840 extremely professionally

01:17:11.620 and did that all rapidly, too.

01:17:13.080 and enthusiastically.

01:17:14.480 So, we're in a fortunate position

01:17:16.140 with that company

01:17:16.800 because we're in a growth phase

01:17:18.140 of that enterprise.

01:17:19.220 And they're, you know,

01:17:19.960 they're, they,

01:17:21.500 as far as I can tell,

01:17:22.700 not only do they put their money

01:17:23.800 where their mouth is,

01:17:24.640 but the people there

01:17:25.800 are fully

01:17:27.920 and enthusiastically

01:17:29.180 and non-resentfully

01:17:30.400 and efficiently on board.

01:17:31.980 And so, that's,

01:17:32.860 that's very,

01:17:33.960 it's been very helpful.

01:17:35.620 And even when,

01:17:36.000 they don't completely

01:17:36.900 understand it,

01:17:38.000 they're on board.

01:17:38.540 I mean, just from the beginning,

01:17:39.800 I sat in a meeting

01:17:40.480 with Jeremy

01:17:41.060 and Caleb

01:17:42.520 and the whole team

01:17:43.140 and we pitched

01:17:44.340 comment section

01:17:45.360 and we,

01:17:45.960 we had produced a pilot

01:17:47.040 and the marketing team

01:17:48.220 and the social media team

01:17:48.980 was developing it.

01:17:49.700 Yeah.

01:17:49.960 They brought me in.

01:17:50.760 I could have been fired

01:17:51.500 at any moment.

01:17:52.080 If they had not greenlit the show,

01:17:53.380 my job would have been next.

01:17:54.500 I had nothing else to do.

01:17:56.020 Not my show would have been next.

01:17:56.860 I would have been next.

01:17:58.260 Sat in this meeting with Jeremy.

01:18:00.040 We played the pilot

01:18:00.980 and he got through it.

01:18:02.760 We watched all three,

01:18:04.040 you know,

01:18:04.400 looking back on it,

01:18:05.320 it's,

01:18:05.720 it was terrible,

01:18:06.700 terrible pilot.

01:18:07.700 But he looked over at me.

01:18:08.840 He was silent

01:18:09.360 in his normal Jeremy way.

01:18:11.220 Contemplating things

01:18:11.900 and looked at me

01:18:12.380 and he said,

01:18:13.000 I don't understand this show,

01:18:15.500 but I know other people will.

01:18:17.160 And I think,

01:18:17.800 you know,

01:18:17.960 he was willing

01:18:18.600 to take that risk on me.

01:18:19.900 I would,

01:18:20.580 when they hired me,

01:18:21.140 I was 19 years old.

01:18:23.300 Right.

01:18:23.980 Jesus.

01:18:24.500 Yeah.

01:18:24.720 I just graduated college.

01:18:25.920 It's no wonder you were nervous.

01:18:27.160 You should be nervous.

01:18:27.920 Nervous.

01:18:28.400 Yes.

01:18:29.020 I was 19.

01:18:30.220 They were giving me,

01:18:31.620 you know,

01:18:32.320 all,

01:18:32.880 I wouldn't say

01:18:33.220 they were giving me a platform.

01:18:34.360 They were helping me

01:18:35.020 with a platform,

01:18:35.560 but we were starting with zero.

01:18:36.940 They gave me resources,

01:18:38.680 an incredible team.

01:18:40.000 Yeah.

01:18:41.320 And they took a chance.

01:18:42.620 Yeah,

01:18:43.100 definitely.

01:18:43.400 And even when Jeremy watched it,

01:18:45.440 he said,

01:18:45.660 this show's not for me.

01:18:47.160 Like,

01:18:47.340 I don't get the memes.

01:18:48.500 I don't understand

01:18:49.220 the TikToks that you're talking about,

01:18:50.740 the lingo you're using,

01:18:52.040 but I know it's important

01:18:53.060 because I know

01:18:53.960 that this doesn't exist.

01:18:54.460 He has enough confidence

01:18:55.460 to allow people

01:18:56.680 to generate autonomous projects.

01:18:58.680 Yeah,

01:18:58.840 yeah,

01:18:58.980 which is also the hallmark

01:19:00.100 of a confident

01:19:01.700 and creative manager

01:19:02.860 and also something

01:19:04.200 that makes that group

01:19:06.440 a pleasure to work with,

01:19:10.540 like a genuine pleasure

01:19:11.320 to work with.

01:19:12.060 Let's talk about

01:19:12.980 your other projects

01:19:13.880 as well.

01:19:14.800 So,

01:19:15.440 we're circling back

01:19:16.920 into Hollywood

01:19:17.460 four years later.

01:19:18.400 Yeah,

01:19:18.580 well,

01:19:18.800 so,

01:19:18.940 okay,

01:19:19.360 so you have,

01:19:20.200 you have,

01:19:21.260 um,

01:19:22.640 Mr. Bertram.

01:19:23.700 Yes.

01:19:24.540 The Pendragon Cycle

01:19:25.740 and Snow White

01:19:27.560 and the Evil Queen, 1.00

01:19:28.620 right?

01:19:28.800 Yes.

01:19:28.940 So,

01:19:29.520 is that a good order

01:19:30.200 to discuss them in?

01:19:31.220 They are,

01:19:31.700 yes.

01:19:32.120 Good start with Mr. Bertram.

01:19:33.260 Mr. Bertram is coming out

01:19:34.560 very soon.

01:19:35.240 And what is that?

01:19:36.300 Mr. Bertram is an animated comedy.

01:19:40.300 Here's a look

01:19:40.920 at the trailer

01:19:41.400 for Mr. Bertram.

01:19:43.120 When I was a kid,

01:19:45.920 men were men.

01:19:47.080 Now everyone's

01:19:47.820 wrapped up in feelings.

01:19:49.620 Real men stuff feelings down 1.00

01:19:51.660 with red meat,

01:19:52.620 cigarettes,

01:19:53.160 and violence.

01:19:55.580 You and a jury

01:19:56.800 and a half your Girl Scouts

01:19:58.260 will be passed out

01:19:59.340 in an hour!

01:20:00.420 Bertram?

01:20:00.980 Bertram.

01:20:01.520 Mr. Bertram.

01:20:02.280 Bertram.

01:20:03.360 Bertram.

01:20:03.980 Richard Bertram.

01:20:05.300 Let the record show 1.00

01:20:06.380 him a dick. 1.00

01:20:07.280 Watch Mr. Bertram, 0.99

01:20:08.440 an all-new animated series

01:20:09.920 from Daily Wire Plus.

01:20:11.880 Now streaming

01:20:12.720 It is inspired

01:20:16.380 by a character

01:20:17.520 that Adam Carolla

01:20:18.260 has been doing

01:20:18.740 on his radio show

01:20:19.560 for years.

01:20:20.880 He's a...

01:20:21.520 Is this a series?

01:20:22.360 A TV series?

01:20:23.120 A TV series, yeah.

01:20:24.620 It is, you know,

01:20:25.960 he is a curmudgeony 0.98

01:20:26.980 shop teacher

01:20:27.900 that is, like,

01:20:29.680 wood shop teacher

01:20:30.340 in schools

01:20:30.860 who is

01:20:31.820 incredibly traditional,

01:20:33.820 incredibly, you know,

01:20:34.560 everything he does

01:20:35.220 is tangible.

01:20:36.260 It is about as traditional

01:20:37.000 as you can get

01:20:37.600 working with, you know,

01:20:39.300 tools and wood.

01:20:40.500 And he's watching

01:20:41.340 as the world

01:20:41.800 just changes around him

01:20:43.000 as things get

01:20:43.480 more technologically advanced,

01:20:44.760 as the world

01:20:45.060 gets more progressive,

01:20:46.000 as the school

01:20:46.560 is trying to push him out.

01:20:47.800 Yeah.

01:20:49.240 Saying your job

01:20:50.100 is not as important.

01:20:51.040 And so it follows his...

01:20:53.560 And what role do you play?

01:20:54.720 Play his daughter.

01:20:55.800 I see.

01:20:56.340 Yes.

01:20:56.880 And what's the character

01:20:58.180 of his daughter?

01:20:59.380 She's incredibly... 0.97

01:21:00.600 She actually reminds me

01:21:01.200 a lot of myself.

01:21:02.280 She's incredibly precocious,

01:21:05.300 very smart,

01:21:06.520 very close with her father.

01:21:07.640 And who's the target market

01:21:11.560 for it?

01:21:13.000 I think the target market

01:21:14.320 is people that have felt

01:21:16.500 abandoned by comedy.

01:21:18.520 Who watch, you know,

01:21:19.940 animated TV shows who...

01:21:21.400 Adult?

01:21:21.980 Is it an adult series?

01:21:22.700 Yes, yes.

01:21:22.980 It's an adult series.

01:21:23.820 Yes, yes.

01:21:24.160 It's an adult series.

01:21:24.980 Okay.

01:21:27.180 And who are wanting comedy

01:21:29.140 that is truthful,

01:21:32.140 that is not afraid

01:21:34.340 to pull punches,

01:21:35.080 that I think that

01:21:36.700 the common man

01:21:37.500 will relate to.

01:21:39.640 It has some satirical...

01:21:40.640 I wouldn't say

01:21:41.060 that it is satire,

01:21:42.020 but it has many

01:21:42.860 satirical elements to it.

01:21:44.180 The writing is incredible.

01:21:46.500 They brought me on

01:21:47.300 and I didn't really know

01:21:47.840 what to expect.

01:21:48.400 And I had done voiceover a lot.

01:21:50.260 I had not done it

01:21:51.120 in a few years.

01:21:51.860 And that's always interesting

01:21:52.560 because it...

01:21:54.780 You know, I...

01:21:55.520 We recorded this whole series.

01:21:56.880 I play a very significant role in it.

01:21:58.760 Have not met Adam yet.

01:22:00.660 I have not...

01:22:01.220 You know,

01:22:01.380 Megyn Kelly plays my mother in it.

01:22:02.780 Oh, yeah.

01:22:03.140 I have never met Megyn yet.

01:22:04.340 I'm meeting her next week

01:22:05.680 for the first time.

01:22:06.660 But you record all of this

01:22:07.840 completely remote.

01:22:08.020 She's quite a powerful force. 0.97

01:22:09.660 She is.

01:22:10.180 Yeah.

01:22:10.620 Yeah, and she's done...

01:22:11.460 She's done extremely well

01:22:12.680 on her own.

01:22:14.280 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:15.080 So, you know,

01:22:15.680 two thumbs up for her.

01:22:16.800 Yes.

01:22:17.140 Yeah, we brought her in for that. 1.00

01:22:18.860 And...

01:22:19.580 But you record it all remote.

01:22:21.320 And so I only got to see

01:22:22.340 bits and pieces of it.

01:22:23.160 I knew that the scripts

01:22:23.880 were fantastic.

01:22:25.020 And then I started

01:22:25.960 to sort of see the animations.

01:22:26.920 When does it launch?

01:22:28.220 It launches this month.

01:22:29.440 Oh, it does?

01:22:30.020 Yeah.

01:22:30.420 Okay.

01:22:30.920 Okay.

01:22:31.200 And that's on the Daily Wire.

01:22:32.420 Yes, that'll be on Daily Wire.

01:22:33.440 Okay, let's talk about

01:22:34.420 the Pendragon Cycle.

01:22:35.380 Yes.

01:22:36.000 That's a huge enterprise

01:22:37.240 for Daily Wire.

01:22:38.020 Huge.

01:22:38.120 They've poured a tremendous

01:22:38.940 amount of resources into it.

01:22:40.260 It's the biggest wave

01:22:41.120 we've ever taken.

01:22:41.840 Yeah, yeah.

01:22:42.220 That Jeremy has ever taken.

01:22:43.160 So walk through it.

01:22:43.940 I talked to Jeremy a bit

01:22:44.940 about it on my podcast,

01:22:46.060 but let's hear it

01:22:46.640 from your perspective.

01:22:47.860 So, the Pendragon Cycle,

01:22:49.500 and I'm sure Jeremy

01:22:50.160 told you this,

01:22:51.100 it is his favorite book series.

01:22:53.280 Yeah.

01:22:53.700 From the beginning.

01:22:54.580 I mean, he has wanted

01:22:55.440 to create this TV show

01:22:57.040 for 30 plus years.

01:22:58.240 This is something he's

01:22:58.920 thought about,

01:23:00.320 dreamed about,

01:23:00.800 has physically written

01:23:02.320 scripts for,

01:23:03.780 and it was finally the time

01:23:04.800 when we had the resources.

01:23:06.360 It was a cultural moment.

01:23:07.940 He was able to step away

01:23:08.980 to direct a majority of it.

01:23:11.700 He was the showrunner.

01:23:12.640 He produced it.

01:23:14.020 He wrote a significant

01:23:15.100 portion of it.

01:23:16.740 This truly is his,

01:23:19.560 I mean, I can't speak for him,

01:23:20.840 but in speaking with him

01:23:22.300 while we were there

01:23:22.820 and seeing him work,

01:23:23.460 this is probably

01:23:24.860 the most important thing

01:23:25.620 that he's ever done.

01:23:27.280 And we went to Hungary.

01:23:30.220 I was there for five months.

01:23:32.220 He was there for seven months.

01:23:34.720 And I was the...

01:23:35.580 Were you recording

01:23:36.340 your podcast during that as well?

01:23:37.620 Same time.

01:23:37.900 Yeah, yeah.

01:23:38.420 Yeah.

01:23:38.760 So, I was the only

01:23:40.260 Daily Wire host

01:23:41.720 that is in the show.

01:23:43.200 What role did you play?

01:23:44.960 I play Merlin's wife.

01:23:47.800 So, it is an Arthurian legacy.

01:23:49.360 The tale of...

01:23:50.060 And it follows

01:23:52.360 the rise of Christianity

01:23:53.500 through the lens

01:23:55.660 of an Arthurian...

01:23:56.540 I'm not speaking right now,

01:23:59.000 not the legacy.

01:24:00.800 And so, I play Merlin's wife.

01:24:03.500 And she is...

01:24:04.480 Is she a good wife? 0.99

01:24:05.520 She's a very good wife. 1.00

01:24:06.020 She's a very good wife. 1.00

01:24:06.980 She's a good character.

01:24:08.360 She is, yes.

01:24:08.940 She's a very, very fun

01:24:09.860 character to play.

01:24:10.740 She is...

01:24:12.060 She has a really

01:24:13.060 beautiful balance

01:24:13.980 of being incredibly strong,

01:24:16.480 but also being very feminine

01:24:19.220 and very empathetic

01:24:21.920 and very sympathetic

01:24:22.840 to Merlin's

01:24:24.960 very unique experiences.

01:24:27.920 And it was just

01:24:28.960 a very, very fun

01:24:29.800 character to play

01:24:30.560 and I saw a lot

01:24:31.340 of myself in her.

01:24:32.120 I got to do stunts

01:24:33.300 that I've never done before.

01:24:35.600 She's a huntress. 0.99

01:24:36.460 Sounds like a wild time.

01:24:36.940 It was amazing.

01:24:37.560 It was fantastic.

01:24:38.040 It was very, very hard work

01:24:40.120 because we were filming the show.

01:24:41.620 How long did you do it for?

01:24:42.760 Five months.

01:24:43.040 Five months.

01:24:43.780 Right.

01:24:44.000 How many hours were filled

01:24:46.920 for the final series?

01:24:49.120 Any idea what's

01:24:49.760 going to come out of it?

01:24:50.460 I have no idea yet.

01:24:51.080 Okay, okay.

01:24:51.520 And I know that they'll probably

01:24:52.340 have a first edit

01:24:53.500 and then they'll cut it down

01:24:54.380 and that kind of stuff.

01:24:55.200 Have you seen any of the edits?

01:24:56.400 I haven't yet.

01:24:57.160 Jeremy's protected.

01:24:57.620 And when is that supposed to launch?

01:25:00.240 I'm not sure yet.

01:25:01.020 Okay.

01:25:01.440 Yeah.

01:25:02.060 They're in full post-production now.

01:25:03.920 I think that there is already

01:25:04.880 a first round of edits

01:25:06.700 that is finished

01:25:07.420 and now we have so much VFX

01:25:09.060 that is going to go into this,

01:25:11.260 so many VFX.

01:25:14.000 There's just a lot of post-production

01:25:15.160 that has to be done.

01:25:15.600 But the very cool thing is

01:25:16.480 even though we are using

01:25:17.200 some VFX,

01:25:18.220 we did 90% of everything

01:25:19.620 that you will see on the screen

01:25:20.600 practically.

01:25:21.720 We physically did it all.

01:25:23.700 There was a,

01:25:24.760 the series starts

01:25:26.980 with an incredible sequence

01:25:28.740 with Spanish bull leapers

01:25:30.560 and they were physically

01:25:32.220 jumping over these bulls.

01:25:33.680 One of my best friends

01:25:34.260 who played the lead

01:25:35.120 in Pendragon, Rose Reed,

01:25:36.640 she was in the arena

01:25:37.620 with these bulls.

01:25:38.660 She trained for months

01:25:40.160 to be able to look like

01:25:42.520 one of these bull leapers.

01:25:44.180 She was having to navigate

01:25:45.280 around the bulls.

01:25:46.080 I was on horseback

01:25:47.500 with a spear

01:25:48.280 jumping over streams,

01:25:50.480 you know, chasing a boar.

01:25:52.460 We were physically fighting.

01:25:54.340 If there was an explosion

01:25:55.180 that you see on screen,

01:25:56.740 we felt the fire.

01:25:57.620 There's a scene

01:25:58.220 where I'm, you know,

01:25:58.860 running through,

01:25:59.540 putting out a fire.

01:26:00.780 I was basically covered

01:26:03.240 in fire protection,

01:26:06.040 which is like a goop

01:26:06.900 that you put on

01:26:07.380 so that you can't be set on fire,

01:26:08.420 running through fire

01:26:09.420 as people were being

01:26:10.480 fully set on fire around me.

01:26:11.520 It was absolutely incredible.

01:26:13.140 There was,

01:26:14.800 I mean,

01:26:15.100 they did not hold back.

01:26:16.260 Good thing you said yes

01:26:17.440 to the Daily Wire.

01:26:18.540 Isn't that awesome?

01:26:18.940 No kidding.

01:26:19.500 And it's also,

01:26:20.400 it's very special because

01:26:21.680 it's very full circle

01:26:23.680 because I get to go back

01:26:24.720 and do what I love

01:26:26.760 more than anything,

01:26:27.720 which is tell stories,

01:26:29.020 but I get to do it

01:26:30.460 with people who I love

01:26:31.640 and trust,

01:26:32.960 who are not exploiting me

01:26:34.780 as a child actor,

01:26:35.860 who share my values

01:26:37.920 and are genuinely creating content

01:26:39.340 for the betterment

01:26:40.080 of other people.

01:26:40.880 Right.

01:26:41.440 Well, that's a good deal.

01:26:42.600 It is.

01:26:43.040 That's a good deal.

01:26:43.800 I would read scripts

01:26:44.580 that would be sent

01:26:45.280 in Hollywood

01:26:45.720 and I would look at it.

01:26:47.680 I would say,

01:26:47.940 I don't want to watch this.

01:26:49.180 Like, these are terrible characters.

01:26:51.060 They're sharing terrible messages.

01:26:53.560 I don't even want to be a vessel

01:26:55.480 through which this gets out

01:26:57.560 to the public.

01:26:58.220 Right, right.

01:26:59.180 And I knew that at a young age.

01:27:00.180 And you didn't have that feeling

01:27:01.420 with the Pendragon cycle at all?

01:27:02.260 No, it's an incredible story.

01:27:03.780 I haven't had that feeling

01:27:04.580 with anything that I've done

01:27:05.420 with Daily Wire.

01:27:05.980 I think Mr. Burcham is,

01:27:07.160 incredible.

01:27:08.660 I can stand behind that completely.

01:27:10.840 The Pendragon cycle

01:27:11.620 is a perfect mix

01:27:12.920 of something that is meaningful

01:27:16.620 in terms of its values

01:27:18.140 and what it promotes

01:27:19.300 and the values of the characters

01:27:21.040 that you will fall in love with

01:27:22.320 while also being something

01:27:25.200 that is beautiful

01:27:26.840 and that people objectively

01:27:27.900 can enjoy.

01:27:28.440 You're not going to sit down

01:27:29.380 and say,

01:27:29.760 oh, I'm watching, you know,

01:27:30.520 I'm watching a Christian TV show.

01:27:32.160 Right, right.

01:27:32.580 You're going to enjoy it

01:27:33.740 because it actually is very good.

01:27:36.080 But you can know

01:27:37.280 that the people who made it,

01:27:39.280 the hours that were put in,

01:27:40.540 I mean, Jeremy barely slept

01:27:41.560 for seven months.

01:27:42.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:27:43.300 But I've also never seen him happier

01:27:44.820 because this was...

01:27:46.080 It's green.

01:27:47.160 Yeah, I gained massive respect

01:27:49.720 for him watching this take place.

01:27:52.380 And he did it masterfully.

01:27:54.060 And so you can feel good watching that.

01:27:55.580 And it's incredible being an actor

01:27:58.080 in that environment

01:27:58.800 and being a vessel

01:27:59.540 because you really are a vessel.

01:28:00.900 You go there,

01:28:01.940 you stand,

01:28:03.520 and you mold yourself

01:28:04.300 to the character.

01:28:04.900 Mm-hmm.

01:28:05.660 And you lose a lot of yourself

01:28:07.300 in doing that

01:28:08.440 if you hate the project

01:28:09.520 and if you hate the character

01:28:10.380 you're playing.

01:28:11.180 Mm-hmm.

01:28:11.440 But if you're able

01:28:12.260 to love the character,

01:28:13.220 if you're able to love

01:28:13.780 the production

01:28:14.220 and the story you're telling,

01:28:15.120 it makes it so much more meaningful

01:28:16.240 and you feel like

01:28:16.760 you're actually part of something

01:28:17.680 that can impact audiences,

01:28:18.880 can impact the culture

01:28:19.800 in a really important way.

01:28:22.160 So let's talk about...

01:28:23.280 Let's close with Snow White

01:28:24.520 and the Evil Queen. 0.98

01:28:26.300 So you picked to play Snow White?

01:28:28.020 Yes.

01:28:28.520 Yeah.

01:28:33.800 Once upon a time

01:28:37.320 In time a prince

01:28:44.360 Once upon a time

01:28:52.240 But now that time is gone

01:28:57.820 So we announced it

01:29:15.040 when we announced Bent Key,

01:29:17.440 which is our children's division.

01:29:19.660 And I think a lot of people assume

01:29:22.320 that we had already filmed the movie

01:29:23.980 when we released the trailer.

01:29:25.380 It was very backwards.

01:29:26.380 We did not do that.

01:29:28.120 We were maybe a week

01:29:30.080 into filming Pendragon

01:29:30.920 and I get a text from Jeremy

01:29:31.960 and he just goes,

01:29:32.480 Where are you?

01:29:33.280 I'm like,

01:29:33.520 I'm at my apartment.

01:29:34.640 And he says,

01:29:34.960 I need you to beat me at the Parisi.

01:29:36.640 Can you be here in five minutes?

01:29:37.720 And that was maybe an eight-minute walk.

01:29:39.580 I was like,

01:29:40.040 Yes.

01:29:40.360 If Jeremy asks anything,

01:29:41.540 you say,

01:29:41.780 Yes, I'll be there.

01:29:43.740 Sprinted out of the apartment.

01:29:45.220 I get to the lobby of the Parisi.

01:29:46.540 I sit down.

01:29:48.000 And he says,

01:29:49.180 We want to do something

01:29:51.140 that could be,

01:29:52.860 it might be impossible.

01:29:54.280 And this was at the time that,

01:29:57.020 it was during the SAG strike,

01:29:58.440 but everything was going viral

01:29:59.740 about Disney's Snow White.

01:30:02.660 Everything Disney.

01:30:03.860 Everything Disney.

01:30:04.420 The diversion of the social order

01:30:05.620 and the demolition of the narrative.

01:30:07.640 Yep.

01:30:07.960 What?

01:30:08.360 The destruction of values.

01:30:09.380 Traditional narrative.

01:30:10.380 Yes.

01:30:10.820 Let's just rewrite this.

01:30:12.520 Be great every time.

01:30:13.380 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:30:14.020 We'll improve it.

01:30:15.360 Yeah.

01:30:15.640 Yeah, these ancient stories. 0.99

01:30:17.020 With their not-so-secret gay agenda. 0.99

01:30:18.480 Mm-hmm. 0.98

01:30:20.560 And so that was in the middle

01:30:21.680 of all of this happening

01:30:22.500 and I had obviously been following it.

01:30:23.760 I had done episodes about it. 0.96

01:30:25.120 No, the gay agenda's a mask. 0.99

01:30:26.840 It's just a destructive agenda. 1.00

01:30:28.540 It is.

01:30:28.820 It's just a demolition agenda with-

01:30:32.580 Of all traditional values.

01:30:33.980 We're pro-inclusion. 0.97

01:30:36.420 Mm-hmm.

01:30:36.600 That's the mask.

01:30:37.720 That's the mask.

01:30:38.520 That's so that if you attack it,

01:30:40.160 you sound like a bigot. 0.81

01:30:41.360 Yeah.

01:30:41.660 Then you can't.

01:30:42.360 It's their wall.

01:30:43.340 Yeah, no.

01:30:44.040 No, we're just bringing in the marginalized.

01:30:46.260 It's like, yeah,

01:30:47.000 wait till you invite the real monsters out

01:30:48.800 from underneath the rocks.

01:30:50.180 You and you are bringing in the marginalized.

01:30:52.140 We're starting to see that happen already.

01:30:54.080 Oh, yeah.

01:30:54.480 Yeah.

01:30:54.940 The maps, the maps.

01:30:56.260 Yeah.

01:30:56.600 Oh, yeah.

01:30:57.320 Oh, no, there's worse monsters.

01:30:58.660 No, no, no.

01:31:00.100 No matter how bad,

01:31:01.780 there's no limit to what people are capable of doing.

01:31:04.900 Right.

01:31:05.140 And so, as you see one extreme emerge,

01:31:08.060 you can be absolutely 100% sure

01:31:10.840 that that new margin

01:31:13.340 has a multiplicity of more extreme margins on its fringe.

01:31:17.920 Right.

01:31:18.100 And there's no end to that.

01:31:19.440 Well, the end is that everything collapses.

01:31:21.380 Yes.

01:31:21.500 That's how this has happened historically.

01:31:23.400 Yes.

01:31:23.740 So, okay.

01:31:24.660 So, Snow White, where are you with this project?

01:31:28.760 We are in pre-production.

01:31:30.880 Yeah, you went to see Jeremy,

01:31:32.220 and he told me that.

01:31:32.700 Oh, yeah.

01:31:33.060 So, I went to see Jeremy,

01:31:34.020 and this was as everything with Snow White was happening,

01:31:36.420 and people were very disappointed,

01:31:39.060 very upset about the way that Disney was rolling out this project.

01:31:43.300 The way that they were-

01:31:44.240 Oh, they picked such a fun actress, too. 0.99

01:31:46.640 Yeah.

01:31:47.120 It was, um, and you know, I'm a-

01:31:49.800 You've now heard me speak for I don't know how many hours we've been talking,

01:31:52.460 but about my love of literature and stories.

01:31:54.920 Yeah.

01:31:55.020 And I grew up reading classic literature.

01:31:56.620 I grew up reading the traditional stories.

01:31:58.240 I grew up reading Grimm's,

01:31:59.260 and I love the stories underneath these fairy tales.

01:32:01.640 And so, as somebody who is more traditional

01:32:03.560 and has a love and appreciation for stories,

01:32:05.260 it's very-

01:32:05.960 It's sad to watch these stories be completely destructed for that agenda.

01:32:10.820 And so, I had been watching this and commenting on it,

01:32:12.740 and so Jeremy brings me in and says-

01:32:14.020 Luckily, they fail.

01:32:15.740 They do.

01:32:16.320 Right.

01:32:16.620 Because they're dull and preachy and obvious and transgressive 1.00

01:32:22.880 in the casual manner, not in the creative manner.

01:32:27.460 Right.

01:32:29.140 But yeah, Jeremy said we want to do the impossible,

01:32:31.560 and we want to do our own Snow White.

01:32:34.140 And we want to do it in line with the values with which it was written.

01:32:40.360 We want to honor the story, and we want you to play Snow White.

01:32:44.500 Mm-hmm.

01:32:45.200 And Jeremy had been watching me work.

01:32:47.720 No audition.

01:32:48.460 Well, I think my audition had been the first month of Pendragon.

01:32:51.120 I understand your audition.

01:32:53.360 But he hadn't even really seen me act before that.

01:32:55.740 He had watched my TV shows and that kind of thing,

01:32:58.040 but he really saw me during Pendragon.

01:32:59.660 Uh-huh.

01:33:00.080 Right, right.

01:33:00.860 And so this was about a month into Pendragon or so.

01:33:02.420 And he said, I'm going to keep you updated.

01:33:05.140 We're working on a script.

01:33:06.280 And at that time, I think he had a very ambitious goal,

01:33:09.640 because that's when Snow White was still going to be released,

01:33:11.280 right around this time.

01:33:13.420 He was like, let's try to film it during Pendragon.

01:33:16.300 And I was like, okay, well, we'll see how this goes.

01:33:18.660 That did not happen, and I'm very glad that it didn't,

01:33:20.880 because I think we will do the story...

01:33:24.760 Justice.

01:33:25.480 Justice, yes, with the right amount of time in the prep.

01:33:28.440 But as we got back from...

01:33:31.360 No, actually, I'm skipping over the story of how we created the trailer.

01:33:34.700 But Jeremy started working on music,

01:33:36.740 and he had this idea for the trailer.

01:33:38.520 Knew that we were going to be announcing the raw rollout of Benke,

01:33:41.820 and the 100 episodes of children's content that we had on the platform.

01:33:44.480 He wanted Snow White and the Evil Queen

01:33:45.700 to be the first feature film that we do on Benke.

01:33:49.420 And so I got a call probably at 4 o'clock in the afternoon,

01:33:54.840 and he said, I want you to fly to Trento, Italy tomorrow,

01:33:57.360 because that's where we had been filming Pendragon that week.

01:34:00.520 We jumped back and forth between Italy and Hungary.

01:34:02.860 I want you to get on a plane, and you're going to fly out,

01:34:05.040 and we have a costume that's being worked on for you.

01:34:08.620 They're going to finish it in the next six hours on the plane with you,

01:34:11.220 and you're going to fly out to Trento, drive...

01:34:13.340 You're going to fly into Milan, drive four hours up to Trentino,

01:34:16.420 wake up the next morning, you're going to come up onto a mountain,

01:34:19.380 another hour of drive, and then stand in this forest and sing.

01:34:23.640 And Jeremy was sending me...

01:34:25.920 Gosh, I still have the recordings on my phone.

01:34:28.340 One day I'll leak them to the public.

01:34:30.040 But it's Jeremy on his...

01:34:31.960 On a piano app on his phone.

01:34:34.480 And it's what you hear in the trailer.

01:34:37.080 And he's singing it.

01:34:38.740 He has an amazing voice, and he's an incredibly musician.

01:34:41.780 And so he sent me the lyrics, he sent me the song,

01:34:43.560 and he said, can you have this ready by tomorrow?

01:34:45.440 I said, sure.

01:34:46.420 And this man, he...

01:34:48.480 I've never had to sing this high before.

01:34:50.880 And I'm a soprano, but I'm not that soprano.

01:34:52.960 I texted him back, I said, Jeremy, this is not going to...

01:34:54.600 You know, I sound like Tweety Bird.

01:34:56.260 And so we went back and forth, and he sent me one in the lower octave.

01:34:59.980 I said, this is much better.

01:35:00.840 And he was all nervous.

01:35:01.500 He was going to the breath.

01:35:01.920 This sounds really low.

01:35:02.680 Meanwhile, I'm thinking, this is still really high.

01:35:05.300 So I get up to Italy.

01:35:06.500 We record it.

01:35:09.420 We record it in the middle of shooting Pendragon.

01:35:11.620 So in the middle of the scene, some of my other Pendragon cast is six feet away.

01:35:16.480 And at this point, they don't even know we're doing so much,

01:35:17.700 because it has not been announced to anyone.

01:35:19.360 Jeremy said, do not tell your mom.

01:35:20.780 Do not tell Alex.

01:35:22.140 Do not tell anybody.

01:35:23.180 We have like three people who know that this is happening.

01:35:25.080 Nobody can know.

01:35:26.080 So I'm sitting here in this princess dress,

01:35:28.080 thinking this is really not the wardrobe that everybody else is wearing.

01:35:31.080 They're going to know.

01:35:31.620 I'm like huddled up, literally hidden.

01:35:33.840 The rest of the cast is over doing something else.

01:35:35.740 Jeremy says, hey, we're going to film a little commercial for a Daily Wire thing that we have to do.

01:35:38.680 So gets the crew to turn around, points the cameras on me, and we film this teaser.

01:35:43.120 And then I fly back to Budapest, and I keep going on Comment Section and keep going on Pendragon.

01:35:48.220 And then I wait to hear what we're going to do with it.

01:35:50.220 And then it launches with Benke, with a Benke rollout.

01:35:53.560 It's a huge success.

01:35:54.540 And then I keep, I just sit and I wait.

01:35:56.240 I'm like, all right, Jeremy, when are we going to film this?

01:35:58.120 Got back to Nashville.

01:36:00.560 We wrapped Pendragon.

01:36:01.480 It was a raging success.

01:36:02.580 I truly think people are going to love the series.

01:36:04.480 And then we've now rolled into pre-production for Snow White and the Evil Queen.

01:36:08.280 So I'm in voice lessons, you know, three to four times a week.

01:36:12.800 I was classically trained as a singer when I was young, but I moved more into pop when I was older and have not sung seriously in many years.

01:36:21.840 And so I'm retraining that muscle.

01:36:24.700 I'm in dance classes every week.

01:36:26.860 It's a musical.

01:36:28.280 We're super excited about it.

01:36:30.220 And that's what I can tell you.

01:36:31.760 And there's a lot of people that I see comments every single day, and they're like, what can you tell us about X, Y, and Z?

01:36:36.840 It's all coming soon.

01:36:38.800 We'll be able to share more soon.

01:36:40.080 But it is an incredible adventure, and it's just always a joy and an honor to collaborate with Jeremy specifically.

01:36:47.120 I mean, he's incredibly creative.

01:36:49.300 He takes incredible risks.

01:36:51.040 I think I've learned, I've learned even more about risk-taking by working for him and working with him.

01:36:56.920 That was one thing that I felt incredibly comfortable with and excited about when I came to Nashville and I came to Daily Wire was I could not have asked for better mentors than the people that I'm surrounded with.

01:37:08.700 And again, I told you, I got this job when I was 19.

01:37:11.840 And I walk into a room, and I was, you know, with Jeremy Boring and Dallas Sonier, who was one of the, you know, greatest producers to come out of Hollywood in recent years.

01:37:20.560 Has just an incredible story.

01:37:21.780 Hey, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, Ben, you know, Ken, I mean, just you.

01:37:26.340 I mean, just the fact that I remember meeting you when we were about to announce that you were joining Daily Wire, and you were doing a photo shoot.

01:37:34.500 And I was in my studio, and I think you would ask, can I meet the YouTube girl?

01:37:37.200 And I about just, like, fell out of my chair.

01:37:38.960 But I just could not have asked for a better group of people.

01:37:44.740 And, you know, they encourage me.

01:37:47.460 I grow every single day, not just in my career, but I learn from all of you, you know, emotionally and spiritually and in my personal life.

01:37:56.040 And that's just an incredible, incredible gift.

01:37:59.060 Typical Hollywood story.

01:38:02.320 All right.

01:38:03.040 Well, look, that's a good place to stop this part of the discussion.

01:38:05.960 I think what we'll do, for everyone watching and listening, I think what we'll do on the Daily Wire side is talk about women.

01:38:13.380 Sounds great.

01:38:14.060 Yep.

01:38:14.480 Because we haven't done that.

01:38:15.760 And marriage, because you're newly married.

01:38:17.760 And the, well, the conception of women in the modern world as it is, and perhaps how it might be if it was tilted in, let's say, a more conservative direction.

01:38:30.600 And what attraction there might be in that, and what obstacles there are in the way of communicating that to young women.

01:38:37.680 So, that's what we'll do for half an hour on the Daily Wire side.

01:38:41.020 If you who are watching and listening want to continue to join us, that also enables you to throw some support the Daily Wire away.

01:38:49.160 Which, well, if you're happy with the state of the world, then there's not much point in doing that.

01:38:54.160 But if you think that things are a little unstable and that some additional voices on the side of something approximating tradition and reason might be useful, well, you know, they're fighting a pretty good, they're putting up a pretty good scrap.

01:39:06.540 And so, also, to all of you who are watching and listening, thank you very much for your time and attention.

01:39:14.180 It's always much appreciated and hopefully never taken for granted.

01:39:17.320 And to the film crew here in Scottsdale, Arizona, which is where I am today, with Brett.

01:39:23.820 And Brett, thank you very much for coming in today to do this.

01:39:26.380 It's a pleasure to talk to you.

01:39:27.540 You're a very entertaining character. 0.99

01:39:29.160 And congratulations on having enough daring to play the fool. 0.96

01:39:35.760 Thank you. 0.99

01:39:36.800 Yeah, no kidding.

01:39:37.900 Well, seriously.

01:39:38.840 Yeah.

01:39:39.160 You know, it takes a lot of daring to throw yourself over the edge.

01:39:44.800 It's true.

01:39:45.240 Yeah, yeah.

01:39:46.000 Happy to be here.

01:39:46.800 Yeah.

01:39:47.920 All right, everyone.

01:39:48.720 Thank you.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - May 13, 2024

448. Alternative Walk of Fame ｜ Brett Cooper

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