The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 459. Texas Children's Hospital Exposed for Illegal Gender Affirming Care ｜ Dr. Eithan Haim

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00:00:57.420 Hello everybody. I had the pleasure and the discomfort as well of talking with Dr. Itan Haim today.

00:01:18.180 And he is a general and trauma surgeon operating in Greenville, Texas.

00:01:26.000 More relevant to this story, he's come out as a whistleblower recently against the largest children's hospital in the world, in Texas.

00:01:34.760 Which has been conducting illegal sex change operations, pediatric sex change operations.

00:01:43.020 And if that's not bad enough, after he came out as a whistleblower, the Department of Justice sent federal agents to his house twice.

00:01:52.320 The second time armed, the second time to lay charges against him, which are very likely to prove, shall we say, spurious and motivated.

00:02:06.140 And so, that's the state of the medical justice and also psychological communities today in the face of this absolutely catastrophic and pathological onslaught of the gender-affirming care radicals. 0.91

00:02:24.520 And so, we discuss all that. Join us.

00:02:29.080 Dr. Haim, start by situating yourself for everybody.

00:02:34.840 Say who you are, where you are in your career, where you're working, where you're located geographically.

00:02:39.800 Just contextualize this for everyone.

00:02:42.840 Yeah. And thank you for having me on.

00:02:45.420 My name is Itan Haim.

00:02:47.200 I'm a general and trauma surgeon in a small town outside of Dallas.

00:02:51.980 I grew up in Florida.

00:02:53.380 I have a brother and a sister, two parents, very close with all of them.

00:02:56.500 And I went to college in Florida and then medical school there as well.

00:03:01.220 And I went to did my surgical training at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas.

00:03:08.680 And, you know, this was a big deal for me because it's one of the most prestigious surgery programs in the country.

00:03:14.660 You know, a lot of legendary surgeons have come from that program.

00:03:18.200 So, I started that program in 2018 and was there for five years until 2023.

00:03:26.260 So, I was able to see the world of medicine and surgery before COVID and the transgender insanity and then afterwards. 1.00

00:03:35.380 So, I had a unique perspective because I was at the bottom of the rung during this time.

00:03:41.840 And, you know, it had completely changed my life, changed the way that I perceive medicine and the world around me.

00:03:47.320 And it was during my time at this residency program where we rotate at a few different hospitals.

00:03:54.780 So, the program is Baylor College of Medicine, but we'll rotate a few different hospitals, one of those being Texas Children's Hospital, which is the largest children's hospital in the world.

00:04:04.700 One of the best hospitals, too.

00:04:06.080 So, you spoke in that brief description of the dawning transgender insanity. 1.00

00:04:13.480 Now, those are pretty harsh words.

00:04:15.700 And you said you were in a very unique position to be able to observe that.

00:04:20.060 And that was associated to some degree with COVID.

00:04:22.540 So, do you want to flesh that out a bit?

00:04:24.200 What exactly did you see happening and why do you refer to it in those terms?

00:04:28.140 Yeah, because so, when you're a surgical resident, you're at the very bottom of the totem pole of these big teams that take care of a bunch of patients.

00:04:37.700 So, all the grunt work is done by the residents, talking to these patients, doing the consents, seeing them every single day.

00:04:45.440 And these are these big county hospitals, big children's hospitals.

00:04:48.880 So, when I started in 2018, you know, this was like the apex of American medicine, where people would be taken to the operating room, you know, cut from the sternum to the belly, you know, have their entire aorta replaced if they had disease.

00:05:03.880 And these people would go home, and I was able to see this, and it was amazing.

00:05:08.240 You know, this is what I always dreamed of doing, because my dad's a doctor, he would tell me stories.

00:05:12.620 And, you know, during that time, there was vigorous debate about issues in medicine and surgery.

00:05:18.120 We would have these meetings every week where we would discuss these topics, and we would discuss them freely.

00:05:23.680 We would have these different points of view that were fleshed out, you know, in really rigorous ways.

00:05:31.840 But in 2020, all that changed.

00:05:34.700 And this was, again, the time where I was at the bottom of the totem pole, right?

00:05:38.020 It was like my second year in training.

00:05:40.200 And it was in March of 2020 that everything had changed, where the medical profession and really our society's institutions had been transformed, I think, in two ways, where they had, instead of pursuing medicine based on morality and evidence and science, it was based on ideology.

00:06:03.580 And what I mean by that is this belief that truth is subjective, that it's not reflective of the objective world, right?

00:06:13.580 So that something is true if you say it's true, not because you can observe it or record it or measure it.

00:06:20.440 All you have to do is just say it's true.

00:06:22.620 And this is a problem when you see it in, like, a college classroom.

00:06:25.340 But it's a totally different thing when it's guiding the interventions that you're recommending for patients.

00:06:33.620 And that's what happened during COVID with the masks, the lockdowns, the social distancing.

00:06:40.320 None of this was ever based on any type of scientific thought.

00:06:45.220 It was simply because someone said it and everyone, you know, believed in it.

00:06:49.780 But the second component that changed was censorship.

00:06:53.160 The ideology had taken hold, but no one was able to question it.

00:06:57.660 No one was able to debate it because of the censorship.

00:07:00.820 It happened in the media.

00:07:02.300 It happened in the news.

00:07:03.360 But in academic medical centers, I can attest that it was, this is where the effect was most powerful.

00:07:10.800 Where if you questioned anything, you would have the most severe repercussions to your job, to your future, to your opportunities, everything.

00:07:19.980 So, a lot of people saw that in, like, this very kind of bird's eye level.

00:07:25.840 But I was in the hospital.

00:07:27.400 I saw how people would die alone.

00:07:30.980 They would suffer for weeks in the hospital.

00:07:33.320 And then the last day they're alive, there's no one in the room with them except for me.

00:07:39.420 And I would see them pass away like this and suffer.

00:07:43.360 And the most important people in their lives were not there.

00:07:46.680 And then they have to live with that guilt.

00:07:48.080 But the worst thing I saw is what was happening to the children.

00:07:52.320 Because when these lockdowns were happening, you know, we would see bad cases of abuse before.

00:07:57.700 But the abuse we saw afterwards was the most shocking thing I've ever seen.

00:08:01.320 Where you would have kids come in so frequently, you know, because they weren't in school, the signs of abuse weren't being picked up.

00:08:08.140 So, it's like during that time that I became very familiar with the sound a mother makes when you tell her that her child is dead.

00:08:13.520 You know, that's a horrifying thing.

00:08:15.960 So, that was my first few years of training.

00:08:18.360 Let me summarize that just to make sure that we've got it.

00:08:21.140 So, the case you're making, you talked about this, the dawn of something approximating a subjective theory of truth.

00:08:27.940 And you say that things really changed in March 2020.

00:08:31.280 And then you make a causal claim.

00:08:33.600 You said that in the throes of the pandemic lockdown, there were medical, hypothetically medical practices that were implemented that weren't based on evidence at all.

00:08:50.000 The social distancing, for example, and the use of masks.

00:08:54.080 And if you opposed that, the introduction of a very strict form of censorship.

00:09:01.420 And your sense is that that actually changed medical culture quite dramatically and quite suddenly and maybe quite comprehensively.

00:09:10.380 And you saw that extend to the degree where we were allowing or hospitals were allowing or insisting that people who were ill suffered and died alone because they weren't allowed to see their loved ones.

00:09:23.680 And that perverted the entire medical enterprise.

00:09:29.700 And then you said that you also saw the dramatic effects of that, of the lockdown practices on children who I presume were exposed to more abuse.

00:09:40.320 Partly because they weren't, that wasn't being monitored by schools, but also partly I would imagine that the additional economic stress and sheer proximity to children that was produced by the lockdowns also exaggerated the conditions that would lead to abuse to begin with.

00:09:58.480 And so, and how did, so then you, maybe you'll tell us how that ties into the transgender insanity, because that's the next step, right? 1.00

00:10:08.080 So, okay, so you're, you saw a perversion of the medical enterprise that you believed was quite profound.

00:10:13.800 Now, why do you think you experienced that more dramatically in some sense, because you were at the bottom of the medical hierarchy at that point?

00:10:21.700 Why do you think that gave you a particularly insightful viewpoint?

00:10:25.520 You know, and the reason is because we would see these people every single day.

00:10:29.560 The ones who would have to make the phone calls to the families was, was us.

00:10:33.240 The people who would stay after and talk to the patients was us.

00:10:36.840 You know, the, the, the breakdowns these people would have were experienced by us.

00:10:42.440 We would see all the worst parts of it.

00:10:44.240 And so, yeah, that, that I believe laid the groundwork because when you have the entire medical establishment, every doctor who participates in this, right?

00:10:55.500 They, they like adopt this sin, right?

00:10:57.780 The shame, because everyone knows it's wrong, but everyone's doing it.

00:11:01.920 And, and you, it's kind of like you prepare them for what's next, because if they don't speak out on that, then they're not going to speak out on anything else.

00:11:10.720 And it's in that environment because the transgender thing, if you remember, was always there.

00:11:15.920 Like the Jazz Jennings, he was, he was like 10 years before that, but it was after COVID where the only way this becomes as universal, as institutional as it has now is if doctors don't say anything.

00:11:33.740 Because what these people are proposing has zero therapeutic rationale.

00:11:38.320 Now, and, and that goes before evidence, that's upstream from evidence.

00:11:43.660 Like if I take out an appendix, right?

00:11:45.680 I take out someone's gallbladder, a colon mass, because I think it's a tumor.

00:11:49.400 I have to have a logic, a rationale.

00:11:52.700 I have to be able to identify a problem, make sure that the risks, that the, sorry, the benefits outweigh the risks.

00:11:59.500 Because whatever intervention we're applying, you have to do that calculus.

00:12:05.200 But in this case, with these transgender interventions, there's none of that. 1.00

00:12:08.560 The only way it happens is if doctors don't say anything about it, don't point out how completely insane what they're doing truly is.

00:12:16.520 And it was after that, around 2022, 23, that you saw the transgender ideology proliferate. 0.93

00:12:24.940 It was like a wildfire, right?

00:12:27.000 Where you saw it wash.

00:12:27.940 Yeah, so that's an interesting, it's an interesting hypothesis.

00:12:31.580 You see, I hadn't considered the fact that acceptance of the lockdown lies, especially on the medical side, and the emergence of that cancel culture around any criticism, set the stage for the next sequence of lies.

00:12:51.100 I mean, there's other causal reasons, I presume.

00:12:54.060 I mean, I read a PDF a while back that was prepared by a marketing agency that described the growth opportunities on the transgender treatment front, the so-called gender-affirming side of medicine, which that gender-affirming phrase, that's like one of the most manipulative lies I've ever heard in my life.

00:13:13.880 It goes along with the legislation to forbid so-called conversion therapy, which I, as a therapist, know that nobody has been doing for like 70 years.

00:13:24.400 That was a complete bloody lie right from the beginning.

00:13:27.040 And the idea that this care is gender-affirming is, it's the antithesis of the truth.

00:13:33.440 And so your claim is, part of the reason that spread so quickly was because there was a culture of compliance and silence that had already established itself firmly in the medical community.

00:13:46.720 Can you think of any other reasons?

00:13:49.400 Have any other reasons occurred to you to account for why this new idea, which is so utterly insane, right?

00:13:57.720 I think it's Joseph Mengele level of insanity.

00:14:00.480 I've never seen the medical and psychiatric community do anything worse in my entire life than what's been happening with so-called gender-affirming care.

00:14:10.100 And so what other reasons do you know that made this occur?

00:14:15.040 So, and just one more thing about what you say for the language.

00:14:18.360 So it's anti-language, right?

00:14:20.460 It's not just a euphemism.

00:14:22.180 It's not just a few degrees off from the truth.

00:14:25.880 It's not oriented towards the truth.

00:14:27.640 It's oriented towards the exact opposite.

00:14:29.660 It's a complete lie.

00:14:31.120 It's an anti-truth.

00:14:32.160 It's anti-truth.

00:14:33.280 It's anti-language.

00:14:34.280 And it's anti-medicine.

00:14:35.640 What this is, is not medicine.

00:14:37.220 Completely.

00:14:37.800 It's diametrically opposed to reality and to the truth.

00:14:41.540 You bet.

00:14:42.180 It's really something to see.

00:14:43.760 And like, as you are implying, most lies are just slightly off kilter, right?

00:14:49.580 And that's how people get away with them.

00:14:51.280 But there are specific forms of lies that are diametrically opposed to the truth.

00:14:56.700 And they're obviously insanely pernicious.

00:15:00.720 And that's exactly the situation with so-called gender-affirming care. 0.89

00:15:05.020 Okay.

00:15:05.160 So what did you start seeing?

00:15:07.400 You talked about the kids that you'd seen who'd been damaged by the COVID lockdowns and the increase in abuse.

00:15:14.160 But that's a separate issue.

00:15:15.200 Apart from the establishment of the culture that we're describing, that's a separate issue from the issues surrounding gender-affirming care, which is at the heart of the matter that you're concerned with.

00:15:24.760 Okay.

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00:17:02.580 Yeah, so it was around 2021, 2022.

00:17:08.720 Everything with COVID is happening, and I'm a part of it, right?

00:17:12.120 So there's a part where I've adopted this shame.

00:17:14.440 I know this is wrong.

00:17:15.580 I know these people are being harmed.

00:17:17.400 I know that what medicine is doing is wrong, and people are losing things that can never be taken back.

00:17:24.420 And that I'm a part of that, because I was playing a role in it.

00:17:30.500 I mean, I tried to fight back every way I could, but, you know, in my inside, I knew that there was a sense of shame, right, within me.

00:17:38.980 But then it was during that time that the transgender issue proliferated, right?

00:17:44.960 It became nationwide, worldwide.

00:17:46.800 And you think that these things are happening in Washington State, Oregon, New York, California, but you don't think it's happening in Texas.

00:17:57.640 So the story starts in March 2022, where I was still a resident.

00:18:03.420 The hospital, Texas Children's Hospital, had issued a public statement unequivocally saying they were going to shut down their transgender clinic because of potential criminal liability.

00:18:17.740 And that last part is important, because they acknowledged that issue, potential criminal liability.

00:18:23.820 The reason they released that statement in March of 2022 is because a few weeks before, the Attorney General of Texas, Ken Paxton, had issued an opinion saying that these interventions could be investigated as child abuse, which they are.

00:18:39.940 So it makes sense why the hospital would release that statement, right?

00:18:43.100 They need to protect themselves, avoid this criminal liability.

00:18:46.800 So they say, we're shutting down the program.

00:18:48.960 And I knew that that was a lie, unequivocally.

00:18:56.520 The reason I knew that is because I worked there.

00:18:58.760 I did surgery there.

00:18:59.960 The people who were doing these procedures had told me they were doing these procedures.

00:19:04.320 So over the next couple of months, people I worked with had told me that, man, you know, I just implanted some puberty-blocking device in some 11-, 12-, 13-year-old kid who believes they're transgender.

00:19:15.540 And I thought, man, that's odd.

00:19:17.880 But they released this statement a few weeks, you know, a few weeks before, a few months before.

00:19:23.020 So I thought maybe this, maybe like a few holdover cases.

00:19:28.420 Maybe they were scheduled beforehand.

00:19:30.600 You know, I didn't believe it.

00:19:32.140 It just seemed so absurd that the hospital would be lying about something like this.

00:19:35.680 I just didn't think it was possible, right?

00:19:37.540 So over the next couple of months, it just gets worse and worse, more and more frequent, where it's becoming more frequent.

00:19:45.320 But also the stories are getting crazier, where you have these kids with tons of psychiatric issues.

00:19:50.840 All of those are being ignored, and they're just getting these drugs, whether blockers, hormones, to affirm their gender.

00:19:59.740 So, but I still didn't believe it, right?

00:20:02.740 Took me months.

00:20:03.640 But then it was January of 2023 that all doubt was gone because it was during that time that the directors of the program, the transgender program, the one that supposedly did not exist, were given the opportunity to speak at the hospital's most prestigious lecture series.

00:20:21.820 It's called Grand Rounds.

00:20:24.000 This is a lecture that's given every single week.

00:20:26.360 It's like, demonstrates the priorities of the hospital.

00:20:29.940 So you have the directors of the transgender program who are talking to the entire department, you know, talking about their algorithmic approach to the, you know, the hormones and the blockers.

00:20:41.940 You know, advising general pediatricians to ask about gender identity behind the backs of their parents, talking about fertility preservation in 11, 12-year-old kids, talking about mastectomies when, you know, kids get a little bit older.

00:20:57.200 And that was mind-blowing.

00:21:00.080 But then even, there was a few weeks after that, there was a Zoom conference with a few members of the transgender program with a group of 150 medical students, right?

00:21:10.440 Like a public Zoom conference where you had one of the social workers who talked about how they actively concealed the existence of the program from governing state bodies, right?

00:21:20.620 Governing medical bodies by saying, instead of documenting consoles, right, or giving documentation to parents, she would defer documentation, like just call in consoles or just tell parents. 0.94

00:21:34.100 The reason is to not leave a paper trail.

00:21:36.960 So these people were explicitly talking about how they were hiding this program.

00:21:41.360 How did you get access to that Zoom call?

00:21:44.240 Because they were public.

00:21:46.540 The entire medical school.

00:21:48.300 It was a medical student group who put on this conference so anyone could join.

00:21:54.020 There were like 150 people there.

00:21:56.420 And the Graham Rounds lectures are open to every person at Texas Children's, every person at Baylor.

00:22:02.360 So you have like hundreds, if not like over a thousand people who know the hospital said one thing, but they're doing the exact opposite thing behind closed doors.

00:22:11.640 And so it took me months to make that conclusion because it's just so insane.

00:22:20.080 And it's shocking.

00:22:21.360 Right, right.

00:22:21.860 Of course, of course.

00:22:23.620 Well, you know, I talked to Michael Schellenberger after he broke the WPATH files.

00:22:28.040 And Michael is obviously a journalist who, he broke the Twitter files too, him and Tybee.

00:22:35.780 And Barry Weiss, I think, was involved in that too.

00:22:39.640 So he's not a coward.

00:22:40.640 And he told me when we discussed the WPATH revelations that he had watched Abigail Schrier and I talk about her book, Irreversible Damage and the harm that gender-affirming care, care, God, I just, I can't even use those words, is doing to children. 0.94

00:22:59.680 And he said that he couldn't believe it.

00:23:04.160 It took him two years.

00:23:05.900 It took him two years to admit to what might be going on.

00:23:12.640 And, you know, it's obvious that you were suffering from the same conundrum.

00:23:16.240 And it's not that surprising, right?

00:23:17.580 Because watching something like that unfold is the sort of thing that makes you question your own sanity.

00:23:24.100 Because you're forced into a position where you think, well, either I'm seeing what's going on and a thousand people are ignoring it, even though it seems extremely pathological and illegal and anti-medical and immoral, and that that's casting a dim light on the entire profession.

00:23:41.960 Or you're going to wonder if maybe there's something wrong with your, the way you're looking at the world.

00:23:48.660 Both of those are really stark and terrible choices.

00:23:51.160 And so, it's not surprising it took you a number of months before you would even fully admit to what was going on.

00:24:00.640 What was your emotional state like at that, at that point?

00:24:04.360 You really look at who you are, right?

00:24:06.380 Like, like, who am I as a person, right?

00:24:09.480 Am I really a doctor?

00:24:11.220 Am I a surgeon?

00:24:11.880 Because that was like the question, that was a question that was going through my mind.

00:24:15.040 I never thought about it.

00:24:15.760 I never answered that question before.

00:24:18.120 But because everything that happened during COVID, you know, I was so angry.

00:24:23.480 Every day I was angry.

00:24:25.120 And my wife would tell me, like, Aton, you're angry.

00:24:27.700 My parents would tell me you're angry.

00:24:28.920 And I'm like a very not angry person by disposition.

00:24:33.140 Like, I never have been angry in the operating room.

00:24:36.860 And that's saying something, you know, for a surgeon to not be angry in the operating room.

00:24:40.320 But I was angry and I was, because I hated to see what was happening to these people, to these kids, to even these adults, everyone, because everyone was taking on these lies.

00:24:54.640 But people were being harmed by it.

00:24:58.060 People were dying alone.

00:24:59.440 These kids were suffering.

00:25:00.820 And I was seeing, I was seeing it every single day.

00:25:03.500 So when I would come home, I was angry.

00:25:05.040 But what I realized is that I was angry with myself, because even though I'm at the bottom of the totem pole, like, I still have a responsibility.

00:25:13.540 If I'm a doctor, I'm a surgeon, I have to do something.

00:25:17.300 Because my dad's a doctor.

00:25:18.900 And he always told me, like, you have to take care of your patients.

00:25:22.680 That's the most important thing above anything else.

00:25:25.000 But he also said, you have to take care of the profession.

00:25:28.340 You have to be a good doctor.

00:25:30.280 You have to represent yourself well.

00:25:32.040 And I thought about everything he had told me.

00:25:36.120 And was I representing medicine, like, surgery?

00:25:40.240 Like, was I being a doctor in that moment?

00:25:41.760 I thought, if I don't do something about this, I could never live with myself, right?

00:25:47.280 You have the biggest children's hospital in the world lying to the public about a program that is manipulating, mutilating, and sterilizing young children.

00:25:57.660 You have probably hundreds, if not 1,000 people who know about it.

00:26:02.440 And I know about it.

00:26:04.300 So if I didn't do something, right?

00:26:07.400 You know, for my wife's pregnant. 0.80

00:26:09.820 She's, my kids, she's due in October.

00:26:13.880 My first girl, she's going to be a daughter.

00:26:16.740 If, when she grows up and she looks back, what is she going to think of her father if I didn't do something?

00:26:24.260 And just let this happen.

00:26:25.340 Because she's going to know.

00:26:27.220 So I thought I had to do something.

00:26:29.460 And that was in January of 2023 where I thought, you know, the reason I'm angry is because the shame within myself for not doing something.

00:26:40.000 So, right?

00:26:41.480 I knew that there were risks.

00:26:42.540 I knew that there were things to fear.

00:26:43.920 But there's something greater to fear rather than the consequences within this world.

00:26:49.460 Okay, so I've got three questions.

00:26:53.120 Like, how many kids and adults do you think were affected by this so-called care during that time?

00:26:59.120 Um, what, how did you come to the conclusion about what to do?

00:27:06.600 Because that's not straightforward, right?

00:27:08.720 Not at all.

00:27:09.680 And then what do you think was the highest, the higher order issue that was at hand that was compelling you to both feel guilty and to speak?

00:27:21.420 Do you mind if I answer those in reverse order?

00:27:25.000 Sure.

00:27:26.080 Yeah.

00:27:27.500 So, in medicine, just like in anything else, the only way to live appropriately is to orient yourself by the truth, to live by the truth.

00:27:37.300 There's nothing you can get away with.

00:27:40.580 If you lie, you're going to pay for it.

00:27:43.620 Um, so, that's the higher order principle that was in my mind that was driving that.

00:27:52.460 But also that, but number two is something more, more physical, more granular, is that there were kids being harmed.

00:27:59.940 That I could do something about it.

00:28:02.300 There were, there were children who were in imminent threat of being harmed.

00:28:05.760 Um, so, uh, how many, how many?

00:28:09.660 Second question, a lot.

00:28:12.160 Um, I can't necessarily give you the exact numbers because what I saw was limited.

00:28:16.780 Maybe probably hundreds, a lot.

00:28:19.760 Okay.

00:28:20.240 A lot.

00:28:20.580 Okay.

00:28:20.880 Yeah.

00:28:21.580 Yeah.

00:28:21.800 But then your first question is, so I have this information, right?

00:28:27.380 Um, I have to orient myself towards truth, right?

00:28:29.920 In order to live, but also to, to fix this problem.

00:28:32.380 There's kids who are being, going to be hurt.

00:28:33.800 Um, and I have the information, but what do I do about it?

00:28:38.240 Like, I'm a no one, right?

00:28:40.000 I'm like, I don't have social media.

00:28:42.500 I, you know, I'm, I'm very private.

00:28:45.100 Um, you know, like I live in a very small town now.

00:28:47.500 So I thought, well, we have to find someone who can do something about this.

00:28:52.080 So we just started reaching out to anyone, everyone, anyone who might do something about

00:28:57.420 it.

00:28:57.980 Um, so it took us five months to get ahold of someone who would take this story.

00:29:03.020 And we reached out like tons of emails.

00:29:05.840 I just sent emails, like emails to dozens of people.

00:29:09.560 Who's us?

00:29:10.240 You said us.

00:29:11.740 Well, just me.

00:29:12.460 In terms of.

00:29:13.480 Yeah, me.

00:29:14.380 Yeah.

00:29:14.600 Okay.

00:29:14.840 Fine, fine.

00:29:15.440 I just wonder, well, the reason I asked, well, the reason I asked is because, and this

00:29:19.940 is useful maybe for anybody watching and listening, is that one of the things that's useful to

00:29:24.860 do if you ever find yourself in a situation like this is to see if there's a couple of

00:29:29.760 other people around that you can trust, that you can ally with.

00:29:32.960 Because it's relatively easy to fire one person, but it's, and to pillory them, but it's, it's

00:29:38.360 a lot harder to do that with two, and it's probably impossible to do it with four.

00:29:42.680 So, but you were doing this, you were doing this alone.

00:29:45.240 And why do you think you had to do it alone?

00:29:47.900 Because the American academic medical system is like East Germany. 0.97

00:29:53.060 Like, no joke.

00:29:54.020 If there was a, you know, a colleague who kind of thought the same way, we would, we would

00:30:00.760 physically go to dark, quiet corners and talk about these things, right?

00:30:06.920 But no, no, it's, it's, there is a culture of censorship and fear that is very, very real.

00:30:17.540 And I can attest to it because I was there.

00:30:19.520 I lived through it.

00:30:21.300 It's unimaginable.

00:30:23.000 So no one's going to do anything like this.

00:30:25.440 And I wouldn't want to necessarily involve people, you know, because

00:30:28.500 you know, you, you, especially we sacrifice so much to get to that point.

00:30:34.440 I mean, you know, many people would be, that's why it's, it's so easy for doctors to say,

00:30:41.520 I'm just not going to do anything.

00:30:43.000 I'm not going to, I'm going to stay silent.

00:30:44.780 Right.

00:30:45.240 But their calculus is incorrect.

00:30:46.680 Um, so yeah, it was, it was, it was during that time.

00:30:50.460 I just would send emails.

00:30:52.400 It's like news organizations I thought would be receptive to the story or journalists took

00:30:57.520 me five months because I think people just didn't believe me.

00:31:00.640 Well, that may be part of the reason.

00:31:02.180 The other part of the reason might be that they're in a culture that's the same as yours,

00:31:05.620 you know, because it's shocking.

00:31:07.960 Look, I know what you're saying already to some degree.

00:31:12.700 I mean, I'm being investigated by my college in Ontario for daring to question the gods

00:31:18.540 of the transgender movement primarily.

00:31:22.300 And so I know how pernicious and pervasive this is, but I don't know the extent of it.

00:31:29.260 And it could easily be that if it's a movement of silence that's infiltrated the medical and

00:31:37.160 the psychological communities, that it's no better in the world of, especially in legacy

00:31:42.960 media.

00:31:43.620 In fact, maybe it's worse and that could easily be the case.

00:31:47.020 So who did you, who did you reach out to just out of curiosity?

00:31:50.720 And then who finally responded?

00:31:53.520 Yeah.

00:31:53.780 So I won't, I won't say the names of the organizations, but these are the conservative

00:31:57.780 organizations who would take a story like this.

00:32:00.060 You know, so I, I want to, I want to be, you know, uh, uh, um, I want to have a degree

00:32:06.660 of charitable, yeah, because, you know, they may have not believed me.

00:32:11.180 They had other things going on.

00:32:12.320 Like, I get it, you know, like I'm just some random guy who's like emailing them a bunch

00:32:16.060 of times, probably the same thing.

00:32:17.460 I'm some weirdo.

00:32:18.600 So, um, yeah, but then, you know, after months, I finally get in touch with Christopher

00:32:24.880 Ruffo in like early to mid May of 2023 and he demonstrated some interest in his story.

00:32:33.740 So we go through the vetting process to make sure I'm not, you know, um, I'm a real person.

00:32:38.200 I'm a surgeon.

00:32:38.680 I work there.

00:32:39.280 That story is true. 0.70

00:32:40.880 And it was the perfect timing because I didn't know this at the time, but the Texas Senate

00:32:45.980 was voting on the bill to ban these interventions in the state of Texas, like a week later.

00:32:52.680 So we go through this process to get the story ready.

00:32:56.800 And then the story comes out on May 16th, 2023 and blows up in the news.

00:33:04.000 It's everywhere.

00:33:04.900 I think you even retweeted about it.

00:33:06.720 Uh, I, I, if I, uh, remember correctly, but the story does exactly what we hoped it would

00:33:12.160 do, right?

00:33:13.080 I was the anonymous whistleblower.

00:33:15.720 No one knew my name.

00:33:17.180 The story had outlined how the hospital had lied to the public and can not only continue

00:33:22.640 the program, but expanded it behind closed doors within 24 hours, within 24 hours, that

00:33:28.380 story coming out, the Texas Senate passed that bill with bipartisan support, banning

00:33:35.160 the interventions that we had exposed.

00:33:37.540 And it was passed with bipartisan support, partly because our story came out the day before,

00:33:42.320 because there were multiple Democrats who didn't know this kind of thing was happening

00:33:45.420 in their districts.

00:33:46.600 And the reason I know that is because I spoke with the guy who wrote that law and he had

00:33:51.320 told me that they had printed out physical copies of our story and handed out to every

00:33:56.220 single member of the Texas Senate.

00:33:58.560 So within 24 hours of our story coming out, the, the conduct we had exposed was voted to

00:34:05.380 become illegal in the, in the state of Texas.

00:34:07.700 Yeah, well, it was probably the case too, that the Democrats that you're speaking of and the

00:34:14.420 Republicans as well, were also very loath to believe this.

00:34:19.920 You know, I've talked to many Democrat congressmen and senators, especially at the federal level.

00:34:26.680 And especially the, the Republicans are often blind to what's really going on, let's say

00:34:35.100 in higher education, in the medical schools, for example, there are 10 years behind the

00:34:40.540 time or 15 years behind the time.

00:34:42.440 But the Democrats are, I would say, willfully blind to the pervasiveness and danger of the

00:34:49.280 radicals that are within their midst.

00:34:51.020 They say, for example, that when someone like Kamala Harris says equity, that all she 0.99

00:34:58.800 means is equality of opportunity, which is complete bloody rubbish. 0.97

00:35:03.100 She uses a different word. 1.00

00:35:04.940 And if she's not smart enough to know the difference, then she's too stupid to be vice president. 1.00

00:35:09.120 That's for sure. 1.00

00:35:10.140 And if she does know the difference, then she's too ideologically corrupt to even be a proper 1.00

00:35:14.760 citizen of the United States. 0.98

00:35:16.900 And so she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, as far as I'm concerned. 1.00

00:35:21.020 And the fact that the moderate Democrats enable that kind of idiot ideology is, it's unforgivable, 1.00

00:35:28.260 as you can see, in consequence of the trans catastrophe, because it is a catastrophe. 0.99

00:35:35.060 Okay, so you got a hold of Chris Rufo, and he brought the story forward.

00:35:40.200 You're anonymous at this point.

00:35:42.480 It makes a legislative difference.

00:35:45.100 What happens at the hospital?

00:35:47.240 Bring us forward from May 2023.

00:35:49.600 So I'm anonymous at this point.

00:35:52.620 No one knows who I am.

00:35:53.620 I'm so busy with surgery.

00:35:55.080 It's like nothing even happened.

00:35:57.220 A few days after that, another whistleblower comes out, someone who worked in the transgender

00:36:01.260 clinic, who actually worked with these doctors and was horrified by what was happening.

00:36:07.020 So this person comes out in another story released by Christopher Rufo a few days later.

00:36:12.860 The attorney general, a few days after that, announces an investigation to the hospital.

00:36:18.000 And then about a week and a half after, the CEO of Texas Children's says that he's going

00:36:23.420 to shut down the program in accordance with SB 14.

00:36:27.240 After that, everything goes quiet.

00:36:30.100 That was May of 2023.

00:36:32.140 I was getting ready to finish my residency, my surgical training, because that was my chief

00:36:38.140 year of the program.

00:36:40.200 So you're doing all this while you're not even completely finished your medical training.

00:36:46.560 So this really is your introduction into modern medicine as it's practiced currently.

00:36:52.720 I can't believe, I can't imagine how demoralizing that would be.

00:36:57.140 But it's for that reason that I did it, right?

00:36:59.460 It's because of, I was seeing what was happening.

00:37:02.760 Of course, someone has to do something about it.

00:37:06.100 Because if I want to pass on a career, a profession to my children, a world to my children,

00:37:11.980 I have to do it when it's the most difficult thing to do, right?

00:37:15.240 It's like, what options did I have?

00:37:17.300 So, of course, you know, but it's kind of funny you say that.

00:37:22.660 Because it was on the day of my graduation from surgical training that the next part

00:37:28.280 of the story where it gets really wild.

00:37:31.200 Because five weeks later, the day I'm graduating from surgical training, one of the most important

00:37:36.260 days of my life, right?

00:37:37.560 You spend all this time sacrificing.

00:37:39.900 You miss all these important events.

00:37:41.820 So it's a Friday, June 23rd.

00:37:43.960 We have the ceremony in a couple of hours about to meet with my family.

00:37:48.140 My wife and I are just getting ready in our apartment.

00:37:50.560 When all of a sudden, I get an aggressive knock on the door.

00:37:55.240 I think, man, like, that's weird.

00:37:56.700 Like, who could this be?

00:37:57.740 So I shuffle over.

00:37:59.200 I open it.

00:38:00.400 And standing outside are two federal agents with Health and Human Services.

00:38:04.620 They show me their badges and tell me that they're investigating a case regarding medical

00:38:08.780 records.

00:38:09.180 So in that moment, everything just, you freeze, right?

00:38:14.100 Your mind just shuts down.

00:38:16.260 And, but in the back of my mind, like, you know, in like my cerebellum somewhere, you know,

00:38:20.800 I just knew.

00:38:22.380 They were there to make an example out of me because I was anonymous.

00:38:26.460 We were able to tell this story.

00:38:28.240 A bill got passed.

00:38:29.320 Another whistleblower came out.

00:38:30.520 They had to shut down the program.

00:38:31.720 If I was able to do this, how many other people were able to do this, right?

00:38:35.940 It was a challenge to the dominant political ideology.

00:38:39.520 Of course, I knew that's kind of what was going on, but you freak out in the moment.

00:38:44.540 So I invite them in.

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00:39:54.960 So we sit down and they want to set up-

00:39:57.540 So you figured that out right away.

00:39:58.920 You basically figured that out right away.

00:40:01.000 How the hell did they know who you were, given that the story had broken anonymously?

00:40:04.880 Well, they had most likely used a huge amount of federal resources to pursue this investigation

00:40:14.160 in that time to find out it was me.

00:40:16.400 They had to mobilize the agents, do an investigation, right?

00:40:22.280 Find all their evidence, surveil me to find out when I was going to be home, surveil me to

00:40:27.220 find out when I was graduating, find out where my address was, and then come to my home a few

00:40:31.760 hours before I was graduating.

00:40:32.860 So, you know, it's like when you have the most-

00:40:34.840 Do you think they timed that?

00:40:35.380 Do you think they timed that to coincide with your graduation?

00:40:39.180 And also, who is they, as far as you know?

00:40:42.740 Like, obviously the hospital wouldn't be very happy with you because they had to shut down

00:40:48.120 this program.

00:40:48.880 And then there are people pulling the strings behind the scenes to keep the program going.

00:40:52.880 But who do you believe, or perhaps know, was behind the investigation into the whistleblowing?

00:41:00.780 Well, you know who runs Health and Human Services and the FBI and the, you know, different legal

00:41:09.980 organizations, right, that want to see this pursued.

00:41:13.980 So, yeah, you have the most powerful people in the country who I believe are behind this.

00:41:19.360 And I think the timing was exactly what they were intending because they have to use the

00:41:25.860 value of that accomplishment, the meaning of that day as their method to extort the threat,

00:41:32.700 right?

00:41:33.200 They have to use that as the extortion for my compliance because they know I'm starting my

00:41:40.480 career.

00:41:40.820 In order to preserve that, they need to do that so that I comply with them.

00:41:46.740 I admit to something that never happened so that I can participate in some phony investigation

00:41:51.540 and then close the door permanently for other whistleblowers in the country.

00:41:55.900 But as they're coming to find out, you know, they knocked on the wrong door because that

00:42:02.120 day we decided to fight.

00:42:03.220 But, you know, when they were setting up their, you know, little tripod to do an interview,

00:42:08.880 my wife comes out.

00:42:10.060 She was getting ready.

00:42:11.400 And luckily, my wife is a brilliant attorney. 1.00

00:42:14.060 She's actually an assistant U.S. attorney at the Department of Justice.

00:42:18.620 So my wife works at the Department of Justice. 0.94

00:42:20.540 She's a lawyer in the Northern District of Texas.

00:42:23.880 She had been hired at the time.

00:42:25.300 And that's an important point later in the story.

00:42:27.040 Just kind of put that in the back of your mind.

00:42:28.600 But she comes out and we both look at each other and we'd say, bad idea.

00:42:32.380 We go to our bedroom and we both say, you know what?

00:42:36.400 Not a good idea to speak with them without an attorney present.

00:42:39.260 We go back out and we tell them, you know, we won't speak with them further.

00:42:43.300 They say, okay.

00:42:44.560 They pack up their things.

00:42:46.000 Before leaving, they hand me a target letter.

00:42:48.160 And it's just a piece of paper that says, I am a potential target of a criminal investigation.

00:42:55.240 And it's signed by a assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of Texas.

00:42:59.820 So we knew that a few minutes after that door opened, you know, the door closes, our lives are going to be changed forever.

00:43:08.360 Because we had a choice, just like before.

00:43:11.060 You know, do we fight back?

00:43:12.740 Do I fight back?

00:43:14.080 Right?

00:43:14.500 You know, do I submit to this ideology?

00:43:17.140 Do I compromise everything I believe in?

00:43:20.480 You know, everything I believe my profession be?

00:43:22.020 You know, do I, you know, compromise what was happening to these children?

00:43:27.060 So there was no question.

00:43:29.500 There was no way I would allow that to happen.

00:43:32.400 So, you know, I decided to fight that day.

00:43:36.880 And we've been fighting ever since.

00:43:38.140 What do you think, what do you think, what do you think they wanted from you?

00:43:42.520 Like, they presumed, I imagine, or knew that you were the whistleblower at that point.

00:43:47.340 And they came using these very sophisticated, I would say, and well thought through intimidation

00:43:53.500 tactics, extraordinarily well timed, I would say, sadistically well timed.

00:43:58.120 And, but you've already broken the story.

00:44:02.960 And so you've done most of the damage that you could do, arguably.

00:44:08.060 What do you think they wanted from you at that point?

00:44:11.100 Fear and compliance.

00:44:14.380 Because they needed, right, it's like, it's not the typical justice system, right?

00:44:20.380 Where it's these people who are actually pursuing the truth in order to obtain justice.

00:44:25.880 This is the exact opposite.

00:44:28.120 When you become a target of a corrupt justice system investigation, people believe that

00:44:33.740 when you comply, when you give in to them, you're actually going to make it better for

00:44:37.280 yourself.

00:44:37.640 But it's the exact opposite.

00:44:39.380 Because it's their virtue, it's the truth that they are targeting.

00:44:44.460 It's, so you believe that your participation, right, if you're innocent, will exonerate you.

00:44:51.680 But it's the exact opposite.

00:44:52.860 It's because you're innocent, because you're virtuous, that they're targeting you in the first

00:44:57.520 place.

00:44:57.820 And I knew that at that point, because I was able to see all these investigations over the

00:45:03.220 previous couple of years where this was happening.

00:45:05.940 So at that point, I already had the framework in my mind, like, this is a corrupt Department

00:45:10.620 of Justice.

00:45:10.980 What kind of investigations are you referring to that you had seen over the previous years?

00:45:16.600 If you think about the main political investigations into political opponents of the Democratic Party over the past four years.

00:45:27.100 So, for example, if you look at anyone who spoke out during COVID, if you look at Douglas Mackey, if you look at the abortion protesters who are being sent to prison for 10, 20 years for the FACE Act for sitting in front of a clinic, right?

00:45:50.560 Like, you know, your compliance does not exonerate you, right?

00:45:56.060 It's because of your innocence, because of your virtue that you're being targeted in the first place.

00:46:00.880 So I knew that.

00:46:01.720 It was obvious.

00:46:02.360 So I still don't exactly understand what, okay, say they wanted your compliance, but compliance with regard to what?

00:46:10.400 For you to retract your accusations?

00:46:12.600 You're telling me that you knew that complying wasn't going to help you, but I still don't understand exactly what they hope to accomplish other than to intimidate you and to stop other whistleblowers.

00:46:22.580 Is that the gist of it?

00:46:24.260 And, you know, that's actually a really good question, because compliance towards what?

00:46:30.260 I believe they needed me to comply, right, in order to admit to a crime, to grovel at their feet, to issue some meeting, you know, some fake apology for doing the right thing.

00:46:42.600 So basically, outline for us what exactly the charges were.

00:46:49.140 So I see.

00:46:49.860 So they brought these charges forward to you, and the presumption was that possibly you could admit to them.

00:46:57.480 Hypothetically, that would mean things would go easier for you, which is completely not true, but then it would also discredit you and serve as an object warning to anybody who was going to pull the curtain back in the future.

00:47:10.880 Okay, so what exactly did they accuse you of?

00:47:14.540 So at that point, completely unclear.

00:47:17.520 And that's where it goes into the next part of the story.

00:47:20.460 But I think it's the point where they needed to make an example out of me.

00:47:25.640 They needed to make me into a criminal, right?

00:47:28.440 Because if they could do that, they shut the door permanently to every other whistleblower in the healthcare system in our country.

00:47:36.600 Yeah.

00:47:36.940 They shut it permanently.

00:47:37.640 Well, and they discredit you, too.

00:47:40.460 Exactly.

00:47:41.260 Right.

00:47:41.520 And that's going to be very convenient because, you know, you could imagine that the Ken Paxton, for example, and the rest of the Texican Republicans aren't going to take the rebellion of the Texas Children's Hospital and their lies lying down.

00:47:56.180 And so you play a pivotal role in that.

00:47:58.980 Their best strategy is to discredit you and turn you into a criminal, obviously.

00:48:03.620 Okay, so continue with the story.

00:48:05.860 Let it continue to unfold.

00:48:07.820 Yep.

00:48:08.240 So after that, right, what do we do, right?

00:48:10.700 So my wife and I, we had the graduation.

00:48:12.480 We go on our patio.

00:48:13.380 And we celebrate.

00:48:16.000 So we put on Vietnam War music.

00:48:18.020 We open a bottle of champagne.

00:48:20.020 And we celebrate.

00:48:21.180 Because at that point, what do you do?

00:48:24.740 Well, good for you.

00:48:25.720 So you went on with the celebration.

00:48:27.720 Of course.

00:48:28.500 Yeah.

00:48:29.160 Yeah.

00:48:29.760 Yeah.

00:48:30.460 Now we have you.

00:48:31.340 Okay.

00:48:31.560 And it was kind of one of those moments where you look back and you're like, oh, my God, like, that's completely insane.

00:48:36.260 But, like, what else could you do, right?

00:48:38.540 When the federal government comes knocking at your door, right, you have to fight back.

00:48:42.320 Well, I also think when you're shocked, when you're shocked like that, you tend to revert to what would be typical and habitual behavior, you know, because you don't know what else to do.

00:48:53.300 I mean, what the hell do you do when the feds come knocking at your door because you've blown the whistle on people in your children's hospital who are mutilating kids?

00:49:04.160 Like, that's a nightmare that's really beyond comprehension.

00:49:07.620 And so it's not like you're going to know how to react.

00:49:11.000 Yeah.

00:49:11.180 And it was at that point that where it's like, once you cross the Rubicon, you know, you're never going to go back to that life.

00:49:17.700 That you become this new person, like you're entering this unknown world where you don't know what it's going to be, right?

00:49:25.720 It's like complete darkness, but, you know, you have faith it's the right place to go.

00:49:30.540 So we got in touch with our attorneys, right, through Christopher Rufo, brilliant people.

00:49:36.620 Marcella Burke, she's amazing.

00:49:38.420 She's a fighter. 1.00

00:49:39.300 So we knew she was the right person for the case.

00:49:41.460 Because over the next couple of months, we go into like this state of legal purgatory where we have no idea what's going on, what they're investigating, anything.

00:49:51.500 Because, right, we had exposed that the hospital was lying.

00:49:54.660 They were doing something that they acknowledged held criminal liability, right?

00:49:58.100 It's like I'm a whistleblower.

00:49:59.080 I had made this public.

00:50:00.720 A law got passed within 24 hours.

00:50:02.460 Like, what could they be potentially doing?

00:50:04.480 But it was over the next six months that the corruption we saw coming from the Department of Justice was so severe that I had no choice but to take this story public.

00:50:17.000 Because I had no intention of doing this.

00:50:20.840 You know, we moved to a very small town.

00:50:22.940 And I work in an even smaller town.

00:50:25.000 And we just wanted to get on with our lives, you know, like, you know, have a family, you know, operate on my patients and take care of them.

00:50:35.800 But it was during those six months where we knew that I would be destroyed if I stayed silent.

00:50:43.000 And that's why I took my story public.

00:50:45.660 But to outline that a little bit more, after I took my story public in January of 2024, six months after, my attorneys had sent a letter to Congress outlining that misconduct in a letter to Jim Jordan.

00:51:00.300 And just to give you an example of a few things, you know.

00:51:03.360 Oh, yes.

00:51:04.000 So the misconduct, you're speaking of the misconduct.

00:51:06.400 Sorry, you're speaking of the misconduct of the Department of Justice officials specifically?

00:51:10.760 Yeah.

00:51:11.580 Yeah.

00:51:11.800 Okay, and the misconduct you're referring to is, is it limited to their intervention in your case and their ill-defined threats towards you?

00:51:22.780 Or were there more things you said that you became aware of more corruption?

00:51:26.220 So, obviously, they came to intimidate you with ill-formed and false charges.

00:51:33.560 And obviously, that's bad enough.

00:51:35.420 But you alluded to the fact that you discovered other things as well.

00:51:38.620 Yeah, well, it was the interactions between my attorney and the prosecutor, my attorneys and the prosecutor.

00:51:47.080 And it was so shocking that my attorneys felt obligated to blow the whistle themselves in this letter.

00:51:53.460 So it was, for example…

00:51:55.680 Oh, okay.

00:51:56.720 Yeah, so the prosecutor, you know, in this letter says that she was going to bring me to a jury trial, even if she was going to lose, even on a technicality.

00:52:05.440 And what that means is, if there's no crime, then you just pursue it if you're going to lose.

00:52:12.980 The implication being, right, the belief is that they're doing this to an innocent person because I had blown the whistle, right?

00:52:23.560 So they were essentially telling us this.

00:52:25.480 They had threatened my wife.

00:52:26.920 My wife was undergoing a background check for the Department of Justice.

00:52:32.560 And, you know, during those instances, you know, in this letter, it says that one of the first things I was brought up was that she says, well, you know, I'm surprised Andrea would interfere with an investigation like this.

00:52:46.800 And, you know, she won't have any issues unless she continues to become a problem. 1.00

00:52:54.140 And what she was referring to was my wife advising me of my constitutional rights.

00:52:58.800 Not only that, you know, it's also saying I had no right to blow the whistle.

00:53:03.080 That for, you know, my job as a doctor, it was not my job to blow the whistle on what was happening.

00:53:09.200 That if I had an issue, I should have just stood outside with a sign.

00:53:15.020 And it was over those months where, you know, I made the conclusion, these people are going to come after me no matter what, no matter what I do.

00:53:24.860 Well, you said something very relevant.

00:53:26.760 It's like I told you earlier that Schellenberger had a hard time believing what Schreier and I had discussed.

00:53:33.920 And then I've also, and so that just shows you how difficult it is for people to believe what's actually going on.

00:53:41.780 But then also it's the case that when someone like you pops up or arguably someone like me, say, in relationship specifically to the Ontario College of Psychologists,

00:53:54.060 it's a lot easier for everyone to assume that you're a troublemaker or that I'm a troublemaker, that there's something fundamentally wrong with us and that the institution that we're criticizing couldn't possibly be that corrupt.

00:54:09.520 And like that impulse to demonize the whistleblower is valid when institutions are mostly sane and have integrity.

00:54:24.660 And our institutions were mostly sane and had integrity until quite recently.

00:54:30.080 And what that also implies is that it's very hard for anyone to overcome their suspicion of, let's say, someone like you.

00:54:38.080 When I first heard about your case in detail, I had tweeted you out a year ago or so, as you pointed out.

00:54:44.100 But I became more aware of what was going on with you again in recent months.

00:54:48.600 There's this little part in the back of my mind thinking, oh, this guy, he's probably just a troublemaker.

00:54:54.880 He's probably just a narcissist, you know, because even though I know that that could well be not true, right?

00:55:02.940 And I have more reason to know that than most people.

00:55:05.080 And so what that also implies is that moving ahead with a case against you is perfectly, it's a perfectly logical, strategic move, even if they know you're innocent and if it's doomed to failure.

00:55:16.840 Because the mere fact that you'll be dragged through the courts is enough to have 25% of people or 50% of people write you off as probably a criminal.

00:55:29.180 You know, where there's smoke, there's fire.

00:55:31.100 There's no way you would be being prosecuted if you hadn't done something wrong.

00:55:35.160 So it's a very smart strategy.

00:55:37.600 Yeah, and especially, it's especially smart because there's going to be no consequences for them, right?

00:55:43.520 They can bring this case, right?

00:55:45.160 It's based on nothing.

00:55:46.040 And they will become princes and princesses in this new empire of lies, right?

00:55:52.740 Their loyalty to the cause to go after an innocent person is like their own blood sacrifice.

00:56:01.720 If they can protect this evil ideology, if they can protect the harming of these children, then they are demonstrated to be, you know, loyal subservience.

00:56:12.660 But then I thought it's like, like people are waking up to it, right?

00:56:16.820 Like people are seeing the justice system for what it is.

00:56:19.400 Like this is a corrupt investigation.

00:56:22.140 This whole thing is corrupt. 0.93

00:56:23.520 And I'm going to be destroyed, right?

00:56:25.700 Or worse, especially when you think about what's happened to other whistleblowers, right?

00:56:31.520 Like in Boeing's case, where-

00:56:34.460 Yeah, right.

00:56:35.120 No kidding.

00:56:35.780 If you're a problem.

00:56:36.560 No kidding.

00:56:36.760 So I thought the only way to survive this, you know, both theoretically and possibly physically, is to tell this story because it's going to happen either way.

00:56:46.700 Yeah.

00:56:47.080 Right?

00:56:47.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:48.760 Okay, so let me ask you again here.

00:56:50.840 So you mentioned earlier who was leading the charge in the legal battle against you.

00:56:58.920 So let's return to that for a minute, because insofar as it's possible and correct, I would like the people who are doing this not to be hidden.

00:57:09.020 Now, you mentioned an assistant attorney general in the south of Texas.

00:57:14.240 Is that the person who's pursuing this case?

00:57:17.720 Yep, yep.

00:57:18.720 And people can-

00:57:19.580 And who is that?

00:57:20.580 Yeah.

00:57:20.980 Who is that?

00:57:22.360 People can find it, you know, if they're interested, they can find out who that person is.

00:57:27.720 Okay, okay, fine, fine.

00:57:29.180 So we'll leave it at that.

00:57:30.520 All right.

00:57:31.000 And so why are you loath to make the name public now?

00:57:35.300 Just out of- I'm not going to pressure you.

00:57:36.860 I'm just curious.

00:57:38.380 Just out of caution.

00:57:39.960 Yeah, and also just for that-

00:57:41.620 Yeah, okay, okay.

00:57:42.000 Yeah.

00:57:42.380 Okay, that's fine.

00:57:43.520 That's fine.

00:57:44.000 All right.

00:57:44.320 So, oh, and you mentioned, I believe it was Paxton's or maybe the Senate's proclamation that

00:57:51.620 the practices that the Children's Hospital were engaging in could be construed as criminal.

00:57:58.360 You know, I'm curious at an international crimes level because I think there's every

00:58:05.500 reason to assume that the sterilization and mutilation of children is actually a crime

00:58:10.860 against humanity.

00:58:11.740 It's not a mere form of criminal activity, mere.

00:58:16.000 And I do believe, I mean, I'm not a lawyer and that's a problem, but I read the relevant

00:58:20.740 description of what constitutes a crime against humanity.

00:58:25.040 And if this doesn't qualify, then, well, either my comprehension is addled or the legislation

00:58:33.340 is written badly.

00:58:34.360 Those are the options as far as I can tell.

00:58:36.280 And, you know, just to take a little detour for a second, you know, I would actually challenge

00:58:41.240 that, right?

00:58:42.000 Like, Dr. Pearson, would you, I would say that this is already a crime, right?

00:58:48.680 It's always been a crime.

00:58:50.160 If a patient comes into my clinic, right?

00:58:53.060 I was doing surgery earlier today.

00:58:54.800 I'm in clinic tomorrow.

00:58:56.660 Someone comes into my clinic and they say, Dr. Heim, right?

00:59:00.240 I, I, uh, I'm, I'm so overweight, right?

00:59:05.380 I, I'm so overweight.

00:59:06.560 I need a gastric sleeve.

00:59:08.300 Um, and, uh, uh, you know, they say it's my body image.

00:59:12.220 I need this surgery.

00:59:13.100 I need it because I, you need to affirm who I am, but they're, they're skinny, right?

00:59:17.380 If, and their BMI is like 15, right?

00:59:19.380 Yeah.

00:59:19.480 Yeah.

00:59:19.960 If I were to operate on that person and do a gastric sleeve, right?

00:59:23.880 Because they told me that I lose my license.

00:59:26.580 I go to prison.

00:59:27.240 What's happening here is no different, but it's worse.

00:59:31.360 Right, right.

00:59:32.780 Yeah.

00:59:33.060 So it's, it's our Overton window.

00:59:35.100 Our Overton window has shifted for this one single issue.

00:59:39.400 Everywhere else it's correct.

00:59:41.060 But because this was infused from, with politics from the beginning, our Overton window has shifted.

00:59:46.500 All we have to do is shift it back.

00:59:47.780 Well, and you already, well, all you already showed too, though, in your earlier description

00:59:52.840 is the Overton window for what constituted acceptable medical evidence shifted terribly during the

00:59:58.800 pandemic.

00:59:59.560 And that set the stage for this next sequence of lies.

01:00:02.840 The fact that we've accepted the shift of that Overton window with regard to medical practice

01:00:07.220 in this one domain means for sure it's going to shift in other ways, right?

01:00:13.680 You can see this happening already.

01:00:15.360 There are already papers being published in psychological journals disputing the validity

01:00:22.520 of the diagnosis of borderline personality disorder, for example.

01:00:27.660 And now it's not surprising that the borderline personality disordered people are pushing that

01:00:32.520 agenda because that's exactly what you'd expect from people with borderline personality disorder.

01:00:36.960 But it's definitely an indication of the increasing politicization of the diagnostic and counseling

01:00:44.580 clinical slash medical enterprise, right?

01:00:47.880 And so once you get some of that poison in the system, it's not going to just sit there.

01:00:51.520 It's going to disseminate through the whole system.

01:00:53.920 Okay, so now by this point, now you're in January, you've sent this letter to Jim Jordan.

01:01:00.760 Walk us through the letter and then what his response was, if you would.

01:01:06.220 Yeah, so the letter-

01:01:08.680 Say who Jim Jordan is too for people, because Lord, everyone will know.

01:01:12.640 Yeah, so Jim Jordan is a congressman who is the chairman of the House Subcommittee on the

01:01:18.940 Weaponization of the Department of Justice.

01:01:20.800 He's a patriot.

01:01:21.700 He's a great guy.

01:01:23.080 We had released this letter.

01:01:24.840 The letter had outlined this profound misconduct that the letter says that the prosecutor didn't

01:01:31.580 even know the details of the case before sending agents to my home.

01:01:35.960 Despite the fact that she didn't know the details of the case, she did enough research

01:01:39.760 to find out my wife was undergoing a background check and use that as a threat. 1.00

01:01:44.620 You know, the letter says that, you know, I had no right to blow the whistle.

01:01:48.580 I had no right to try to protect these kids who were being harmed.

01:01:52.220 The letter says that they were going to take me to a jury trial, even if they were going

01:01:55.940 to lose, even if it's on a technicality, indicating that the law doesn't matter to them,

01:02:01.160 that they're going to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whoever they want.

01:02:05.460 And it was at that point that I knew for sure, as an absolute fact, that I had to do something.

01:02:11.880 So we sent that letter.

01:02:13.480 That was after I took my story public.

01:02:15.460 And the reason I took it public, you know, as I said before, was because once you tell

01:02:19.940 this story publicly, the corruption becomes self-evident.

01:02:22.780 Because it's like what, and what you said earlier, it's like when people hear it, like

01:02:26.820 they naturally think, man, there's, this guy's probably a criminal. 1.00

01:02:29.700 He's probably a scumbag. 1.00

01:02:31.340 But like, I wouldn't let them define the story. 1.00

01:02:35.940 If I'm going to go through this, it's going to be on my terms, right?

01:02:39.360 I'm not going to let them lie.

01:02:40.880 That's a better strategy.

01:02:42.080 That's a better strategy.

01:02:43.060 I'm not, I'm not going to let them lie.

01:02:46.100 Just like they have everything else to, to manipulate, to cheat, to coerce.

01:02:52.360 In this case, I have control, even though, you know, everyone would think I'm like the

01:02:57.520 one who's least in control.

01:02:58.820 When you're the focus of an investigation by a corrupt Department of Justice, you think

01:03:04.860 you're not in control, but you have all the control.

01:03:07.300 Because the only way for them to maintain their legitimacy is through your compliance,

01:03:11.960 right?

01:03:12.600 But it's only through your compliance that you get destroyed.

01:03:15.900 So I took the story public.

01:03:17.720 And the reason was just to, to protect myself, but also because the story is meaningless unless

01:03:24.140 there's offense.

01:03:25.760 Right?

01:03:26.200 And most of our politicians aren't doing it, right?

01:03:29.960 Most of the people who we elect to represent us aren't doing it.

01:03:33.240 There's some good ones.

01:03:34.940 But now it's our responsibility, right?

01:03:37.960 And during those six months where I was anonymous, we had spent over $250,000, all of our savings,

01:03:44.520 our investments, everything.

01:03:45.760 Like we're broke.

01:03:46.580 We're going to be broke for a long time.

01:03:48.120 That's okay.

01:03:48.940 But we had gone on the offense too, you know, to try to defend these bills, to try to develop

01:03:55.600 cases, not only to protect whistleblowers, but also to, to, um, uh, make sure this doesn't

01:04:01.320 happen in the future.

01:04:02.500 But, um, uh, so I come out in January of 2024 with my story publicly over the next few months

01:04:10.780 until June, a week and a half ago, I'm just public, right?

01:04:15.920 I, you know, uh, I was working as a surgeon at the time.

01:04:20.080 So walk us through that.

01:04:21.480 Walk us through that.

01:04:22.980 You, you was, you brought it out publicly with Chris Rufo again, and then what happened to

01:04:28.160 the story?

01:04:29.480 Yeah, well, it's, it kind of blew up, you know, it was, um, like my whole world kind of

01:04:35.840 turned inside out in some ways, but then in many ways it was just completely normal because

01:04:40.680 I go to work, I see my patients, I operate and, and I just do that.

01:04:46.140 And I'm very busy, but then there's this other world where it's like, this thing is

01:04:49.800 hanging over my head where you, you, we still have no idea what's going to happen.

01:04:55.000 Right.

01:04:56.120 But we wanted to be able to tell the story, right.

01:04:59.060 To make sure that people knew the truth.

01:05:01.220 So, you know, um, you know, I did interviews with Tucker Carlson.

01:05:05.080 Who have you talked to?

01:05:05.500 Who have you?

01:05:06.260 Yeah.

01:05:06.700 Yeah.

01:05:06.960 Yeah.

01:05:07.620 Yeah.

01:05:07.940 Like Carlson, who else?

01:05:09.040 Tucker Carlson, Dr. Phil, um, uh, John Popolo, Dad Saves America, um, Laura Ingram.

01:05:17.140 Um, I mean, so many people, it's so many, Stella O'Malley.

01:05:20.820 Um, uh, and, and I know I'm probably missing a lot.

01:05:24.780 Uh, Kyle Serafin, the FBI whistleblower, um, really, really good people.

01:05:29.960 Um, Gays Against Groomers, I talked to them, um, really good people. 1.00

01:05:34.080 And, um, I actually got the WPATH files before it came out from Schellenberger's team because

01:05:40.280 it was a few months after.

01:05:41.940 Now, I read, I believe that there are four charges, specific charges pending against you

01:05:49.280 now.

01:05:49.600 Is that the case that they have something to do with illegal access of medical records?

01:05:54.120 Can you do us a favor and, and, like, steel man the charges against you so that we understand

01:06:00.160 what case they're trying to build?

01:06:02.400 What are they claiming that you did now?

01:06:04.180 You said it was very amorphous to begin with and that the prosecutor hadn't even really

01:06:08.000 reviewed the case before she sent the agents to your house.

01:06:11.560 I presume that they've sharpened the case now.

01:06:15.060 They've sharpened the dagger.

01:06:16.300 And so, I, I've heard that you're facing, like, a very high fine and actually a fairly

01:06:21.840 extensive potential prison sentence, something in the neighborhood of 10 years.

01:06:27.000 So, so walk us through that, if you would.

01:06:30.200 Yeah, so over this, these six months, right, I have no idea what's going on, but June 4th,

01:06:35.440 so not too long ago, three federal, uh, U.S. Marshals, heavily armed, show up to my door

01:06:40.700 at 7 a.m., right, another show of force, and hand me a, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, for sure,

01:06:47.480 for sure, yeah, um, you know, bulletproof vests, guns, everything.

01:06:51.860 Um, so they hand me an indictment saying that I am, uh, being charged with four felonies.

01:06:57.240 This past Monday, two days, or, yeah, a few days ago, um, the indictment was unsealed.

01:07:05.440 Because I'm facing this trial, I can't talk about the indictment in any detail, um, you

01:07:12.080 know, just, just out of caution, out of prudence, uh, you know, there's, people, people, people

01:07:16.520 can read it themselves, but the, the one thing I will say.

01:07:19.500 Where would they find it and then walk us through it?

01:07:23.020 Yep, um, so, yeah, I, unfortunately, I can't go through the indictment, but it's, it's related

01:07:28.260 to, yeah, it's, yeah, it's related to HIPAA.

01:07:30.720 The, but the one thing I will say is that, um, you know, people can find it at like the

01:07:35.220 U.S. DOJ website.

01:07:36.720 There's like a press release about it.

01:07:38.800 Um, and, you know, there's stories written in, um, different, uh, media, uh, journals.

01:07:47.100 Um, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head, but, um, the one thing I will say about

01:07:52.700 it, you know, I, uh, is, is my reaction to it, right?

01:07:55.740 Because on Monday when the indictment wasn't sealed, when I read it for the first time,

01:07:59.800 I had two emotions, right?

01:08:01.420 And the first one sounds odd, but it was, um, vindication, right?

01:08:07.260 Almost a degree of relief where I thought my heart was going to sink, but then I read

01:08:11.600 it and I was like, oh my God, like these, the, these charges are as divorced from reality

01:08:18.800 as the interventions they're trying to cover up.

01:08:21.980 So it's, you know, you know, I had that, that same experience, you know, last Christmas,

01:08:28.160 I have 13 charges against me.

01:08:30.760 Now they're not criminal charges, but they're charges that would culminate in me either being

01:08:36.900 reeducated, which is what I'm hypothetically sentenced to now or losing my license, right?

01:08:41.720 So now, um, I had to review all 13 charges last Christmas, and that was quite an onerous

01:08:50.860 task.

01:08:51.340 As you can imagine, there's like 30 pages of documentation per charge.

01:08:56.480 So that's like 400 pages of charges.

01:08:58.580 And, you know, um, I have a bit of a guilty conscience as a temperamental feature.

01:09:05.720 And so I suppose I regarded myself the same way I might regard another troublemaker and

01:09:12.740 think, well, you know, maybe I did something wrong that I haven't paid attention to.

01:09:17.260 And so I was leery about going through these charges.

01:09:20.540 But what happened, it took me three days.

01:09:22.700 What happened at the end was two things.

01:09:25.160 I was relieved and I was, my jaw was dropped further open at the sheer magnitude of the incompetence 1.00

01:09:34.340 and stupidity of my opponents. 1.00

01:09:37.980 The things they charged me of were, with were, first of all, virtues. 0.99

01:09:43.220 I came away from that thinking, oh, well, you know, if these are the people I'm up against,

01:09:48.300 fundamentally, there's no real problem.

01:09:52.400 So I can understand your paradoxical emotion as a consequence of reviewing the charges, even

01:10:00.120 though it's a pain in the neck and it's hyper expensive, as you've already discovered.

01:10:04.700 And, you know, they can do me reputational damage as they can do you.

01:10:08.580 You know, it's funny you say relief because that's, that's what it is, you know, but, um,

01:10:13.780 because you look at it, you're like, this can't be real, but I don't think it's incompetence.

01:10:17.940 It's not incompetence, right?

01:10:20.400 Because there's no way the most powerful federal investigative agency on this planet can be so

01:10:28.020 incompetent.

01:10:28.880 This is intentional, just like in your case, right?

01:10:32.080 And I knew, so at first, right, it's like, I feel a degree of relief, vindication.

01:10:36.740 This is a political prosecution.

01:10:38.360 Like I said, you know, I knew it was the right thing to take this story public, to tell it

01:10:42.420 so that people knew the truth.

01:10:43.840 But then the second thing was just this visceral fear, right?

01:10:47.840 This visceral, visceral fear, because I know that I face 10 years in prison.

01:10:53.580 I might miss the birth of my first daughter, right?

01:10:57.000 She's due in October.

01:10:58.320 I couldn't lose everything I've ever worked for, right?

01:11:02.540 I couldn't lose everything.

01:11:04.140 We've already lost everything we've ever, you know, saved up, all of our investments,

01:11:08.780 our retirement, everything.

01:11:10.360 But the thought on Monday of standing in front of that judge, right, where, um, you know,

01:11:16.840 you have these other people who are in there and then, you know, these cocaine traffickers

01:11:20.680 and, you know, some people who are pedophiles, then I'm there too, right?

01:11:25.140 And, um, there's fear.

01:11:28.180 There's a visceral, visceral fear.

01:11:30.340 But then there's that, but there's also one thing more, right?

01:11:34.940 It's like this fear of what happens if I don't fight back, if we don't push forward.

01:11:40.580 The fear of kneeling to this ideology, of submitting to these corrupt, vicious people

01:11:46.780 who want to take away all the virtues that makes this country great.

01:11:50.400 Because it's like, these are things in the physical world that they can do to us, but

01:11:55.460 there's something I believe that's beyond that, that there's, that's something that

01:11:59.220 transcends what happens in our lives.

01:12:02.280 And if I submit to this, I fear what happens then.

01:12:07.340 So even though I'm scared of what I face moving forward, what kind of world is my daughter

01:12:18.060 going to have if I don't do something about it?

01:12:20.640 We have to do something now.

01:12:22.140 So it's, you know, since then, you know, there's fear, but, but there's, there's resolve, right?

01:12:28.780 We have to fight.

01:12:29.720 We have to stand up.

01:12:30.860 We have to make this right.

01:12:32.140 Because if, if we don't, then what kind of, we say we, we love our children.

01:12:37.680 We're willing to sacrifice for them.

01:12:40.160 But what does that mean?

01:12:41.220 Like, are we really willing to sacrifice for our kids if we're not willing to do something

01:12:44.320 like this, do we really love our kids if we're not willing to, to stand up for them in this

01:12:49.020 way to sacrifice, you know, every part of ourselves?

01:12:52.980 No, you can't say you, I just, I don't believe that.

01:12:55.560 I believe that if you love your children, the only way to really love them is to sacrifice

01:13:01.120 for them.

01:13:01.620 And if that means sacrificing what's happening to me, then, then I'll take this fight.

01:13:08.500 So let, let me ask you another question here, if that's okay.

01:13:14.320 So this is just a practical question.

01:13:18.800 And then I'll ask something that's more conceptual.

01:13:23.900 How is it that you're still practicing?

01:13:27.260 I work with good people, the best people.

01:13:34.300 And I'm a good doctor.

01:13:37.000 I'm a good surgeon.

01:13:37.700 Right before I did this interview, you know, it, it, it sounds, it might be hard to believe,

01:13:42.980 but I mean, I, a very, very complicated surgery.

01:13:46.320 Yeah.

01:13:46.940 But I'm amazed they haven't suspended, has, haven't suspended you or, or done something

01:13:52.180 to trump up a situation that makes it impossible for you to continue.

01:13:55.940 You know, I'll tell you what, there's one thing I realized, right?

01:13:58.280 Once I took my story public, you, you think you're, you think you're going into this world

01:14:03.900 that is darkness, right?

01:14:05.760 That you're going to be destroyed, that everyone's going to come after you.

01:14:09.000 And, um, you think you're going to lose everything.

01:14:10.940 But then what I realized that it's the exact opposite, right?

01:14:14.060 Um, where, uh, you gain everything, where you meet the best people in the world, where

01:14:21.500 people from all over the world will support you, where, um, uh, you can live for the first

01:14:27.740 time with dignity.

01:14:28.740 You can look at yourself in the mirror and you can say, um, you know, I'm not lying to

01:14:34.060 myself.

01:14:34.440 I can call myself a doctor, but this is true.

01:14:37.420 This is not something that is, is, is not real.

01:14:40.600 Right.

01:14:41.040 And, um, uh, people understand that, right?

01:14:44.580 People can see that, like he told this story, he took a risk with telling the story and he,

01:14:52.040 and he, by whatever he faces, right.

01:14:54.460 But he told the story and you know what, people have been willing to stand behind me.

01:14:58.500 And that includes my patients, the people I work with.

01:15:02.520 And, um, it's the most amazing thing because, uh, you know, you know, the day the federal agents

01:15:08.080 came, you know, of course it was crazy.

01:15:10.380 I had to take like an hour to like, you know, recollect myself, but I went to work.

01:15:16.000 I rounded on like 20 patients, sick patients.

01:15:18.860 I operated because that's my job.

01:15:23.100 I have to take care of these people no matter what.

01:15:26.360 And it doesn't mean anything if, if I don't do that, because I believe I was put on this

01:15:31.560 earth to take care of sick people.

01:15:33.120 So no matter what happens, I have to do that.

01:15:38.160 So, um, I'm still working because I think that people understand that people understand

01:15:46.320 more what this, what's happening to this country, right?

01:15:49.840 They understand what this is and they understand my story because it's happening to other people.

01:15:54.820 It's happening to me.

01:15:55.520 They know it's going to happen to them next.

01:15:57.580 Next question.

01:15:59.800 What were your political beliefs and your degree of political involvement before you started

01:16:06.900 to see the ideological corruption and cowardice emerge in the medical profession?

01:16:13.800 Were you a political person?

01:16:15.160 And if so, where would have you placed yourself on the political spectrum?

01:16:20.640 You know, I think like, uh, like so many, um, kind of prominent or like a lot of people

01:16:27.640 may, and I think yourself included, I was a big time lefty for a long time, um, up until

01:16:33.900 about college.

01:16:35.600 Um, you know, you know, I, I kind of just, you, you become part of this milieu, right?

01:16:41.000 This social, cultural, educational milieu where your natural state is just to be on the

01:16:50.680 left.

01:16:51.280 So that's where I was, but it was in my twenties that, um, I kind of started to wake up to what

01:16:57.660 was happening in the world.

01:16:59.220 And a lot of it was because of Israel, like my family's from Israel.

01:17:02.160 You know, my, my dad's from Iraq, they're Iraqi Jews and they moved to Israel in the

01:17:05.600 beginning.

01:17:06.220 My mom is German.

01:17:07.380 She's Christian, but she converted.

01:17:08.800 That's where she met my dad.

01:17:09.760 She moved to Israel and they met, but, um, it kind of started this, this kind of, my

01:17:16.320 eyes started to open, you know, over the next decade, you know, between like 21, 22 and like

01:17:22.120 now where, and it was also during that time that I just started reading like hundreds

01:17:26.860 and hundreds of books about history and, and fiction and everything, politics, economics.

01:17:33.020 And, um, cause I always thought I read, I would read these books and I thought like, our lives

01:17:39.540 are so tame, right?

01:17:40.880 They're there.

01:17:41.560 We live in such a privileged time that nothing like this is ever going to happen.

01:17:44.800 You know, reading stories about World War II and, and before, and, and, you know, like what my

01:17:50.360 family had to go through in Israel or in Germany.

01:17:52.520 Um, and, uh, I thought that it would never happen.

01:17:57.200 Right.

01:17:57.740 But then, um, over the next couple, it really, you know, since 2020, I thought everything's

01:18:04.660 changed right now.

01:18:05.840 Now people like us are in the center of those stories and what we, what I thought would never

01:18:12.480 happen in my lifetime is now happening.

01:18:15.120 But one thing I always remember from those stories is that the people that there's, there's

01:18:22.400 no lying to yourself.

01:18:23.620 There's no giving in and getting away with it because the truth will, will always prevail.

01:18:29.000 It might take, you might have to sacrifice your life.

01:18:31.980 You might have to sacrifice a lot, but in those cases, the truth always prevails and people

01:18:36.220 always remember the people who did the right thing when it was the most difficult thing to

01:18:39.600 do.

01:18:39.920 So I kind of made that transformation towards becoming more conservative.

01:18:43.540 Um, but yeah, for a long time, I was a big old lefty.

01:18:47.860 So I, I'm curious, Dr.

01:18:49.300 Haim, I've spent an ungodly amount of money fighting off the bureaucrats from the Ontario

01:18:54.820 College of Psychologists. 0.97

01:18:56.100 It's, it's ridiculous.

01:18:57.740 And so luckily, I suppose I have the money, um, although that's not just luck I might point

01:19:06.300 out.

01:19:06.960 Um, but I don't understand how you're managing this.

01:19:10.560 You said you already spent all your savings and, and, and, and all your money at hand,

01:19:17.280 something approximating $250,000.

01:19:19.700 How in the world are you funding it?

01:19:21.480 And is there anything people can do to help?

01:19:24.340 Uh, yeah.

01:19:24.940 So ever since the agents came to my home, June 23rd, 2023, we knew we had to take this case

01:19:31.000 forward.

01:19:31.360 So we were funding, funding it, uh, completely by ourselves.

01:19:36.280 So we spent at this point, oh, probably almost $300,000 at this point.

01:19:41.640 Um, everything we've ever invested, all of our savings, all of our retirement, every paycheck

01:19:46.860 we get goes to it.

01:19:48.500 And I don't say that as, as like a victim because to be able to fight this, it's a privilege

01:19:53.780 to be able to fight for a future for our children.

01:19:56.300 But, uh, if people do want to help, you know, the funds, we need it.

01:20:01.020 You know, we absolutely need it to fight this case in federal trial.

01:20:04.280 Uh, it's going to be upwards of a million dollars.

01:20:06.460 And if they do want to donate, they can go to it conservatively give send go.com forward

01:20:12.400 slash Texas underscore whistleblower.

01:20:15.200 And it's the most amazing thing to see, you know, how many people have come out in support,

01:20:20.800 you know, every single message, every single donation.

01:20:23.400 My wife and I, we read it every single night, every single message.

01:20:27.820 We read it multiple times because it's like, like I said before, where it's like this, this

01:20:32.160 world that you think you're going into, you think it's darkness and you think you're going

01:20:36.180 to be destroyed, but there's actually this entire world where, um, that there's people

01:20:41.620 who are willing to support you and, and, um, but, but we need to fight, uh, and that's what

01:20:46.340 we're going to do.

01:20:46.980 And there's no way that I'm going to dishonor the sacrifices of everyone who've donated to our

01:20:52.760 legal fund.

01:20:53.840 Yeah.

01:20:53.920 Well, that's one of the mysteries of telling the truth is that you end up being surrounded

01:20:58.680 by people who have devoted themselves to telling the truth.

01:21:02.320 And that's a really good deal.

01:21:04.940 Okay.

01:21:05.180 So let's close with this.

01:21:07.100 When, when we go over to the daily wire side, everybody watching and listening, I'm going

01:21:11.460 to spend another half an hour with Dr.

01:21:14.400 Heim on the daily wire side.

01:21:16.040 I think what we're going to talk about there rather than the autobiographical tack that I often 0.74

01:21:21.240 take it, I think what we'll talk about is why he thinks specifically the transgender madness 1.00

01:21:28.640 has taken over the clinical and medical world because there's other ways the lie could have

01:21:35.560 gone.

01:21:36.100 So we're going to delve into that a bit more.

01:21:38.400 What I would like to close this part with, unless there's something else specifically that

01:21:42.880 you'd like to bring up that we haven't covered is what the hell's going to happen next to you?

01:21:49.340 What do you think is going to happen?

01:21:51.260 And what, what do you want to have happen?

01:21:54.060 What's your plan?

01:21:55.840 So what happens from here is we fight, we go to trial, we have to win because if we don't,

01:22:02.860 the ability for people in American healthcare to blow the whistle, that door will be closed

01:22:08.120 forever.

01:22:10.280 I have to do it for my profession.

01:22:12.060 I have to do it for, for my children.

01:22:13.980 But right now there are children who are being harmed by this practice.

01:22:18.320 We have to do it for them because they're the ones who are in most imminent risk of,

01:22:23.040 of their lives being unalterably changed.

01:22:25.760 And, you know, like, like how much I look forward to seeing my daughter and having children.

01:22:30.900 This is being taken away from them at the time when they at least understand the ability,

01:22:35.360 the, the, the implications of their actions, when they at least understand the consequences.

01:22:40.400 OK, so you alluded earlier to something I just want to get straight.

01:22:44.280 I saw, I think his name is Cenk Ugyur.

01:22:48.200 He's one of the young Turks, particularly, well, we won't get into that.

01:22:54.560 He claimed the other day on, on Piers Morgan that it's a very, very small number of children,

01:23:02.420 if any, that this is happening to.

01:23:04.320 But you made the case earlier in the podcast that at the Texas Children's Hospital alone,

01:23:09.900 it was something in the run of hundreds that are at least being put on puberty blockers.

01:23:15.020 And that's no trivial thing, that hormonal intermediation. 0.90

01:23:18.620 The idea that that's fully reversible is absolute bloody nonsense.

01:23:21.600 But do you have a sense of just what magnitude this problem is and then of what the magnitude is

01:23:30.780 in terms of the full movement towards surgical intervention among, specifically among minors, let's say?

01:23:38.100 I know that the rate, the diagnosis rate has gone way up.

01:23:41.380 It's now at minimum thousands and thousands of children who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

01:23:47.260 But this is more specific on the medical side, being administered hormonal interventions.

01:23:55.780 And then I know once that happens, the probability of progressing towards surgery is quite high.

01:24:01.580 So what kind of numbers do you think we're looking at here?

01:24:04.460 So I want to answer your question in two ways.

01:24:07.080 So specifically the numbers, I would say hundreds of thousands.

01:24:11.440 And it's important for people to understand that once these children are being put in this position,

01:24:17.360 right, they become a chronic medical patient for life.

01:24:20.320 Because puberty blockers are not reversible, right?

01:24:23.500 And especially because by their own protocols, they shut off any exit ramp.

01:24:29.060 They shut off any alternative.

01:24:30.960 Because any alternative is prevented by the threat of their own suicide.

01:24:36.120 They're blackmailed into one pathway forward.

01:24:38.820 So they're not meant to be on puberty blockers for a short period of time.

01:24:43.020 Like I would implant puberty blockers in kids who actually had precocious puberty,

01:24:47.120 this early onset when they're like six years old, they start, you know, having sons.

01:24:51.220 But you take them out right when they become, you know, 11, 12, 13 years old.

01:24:55.000 But in this case, they're meant to block the entirety of puberty, then hormones, then surgery.

01:25:00.580 But the reason we can't give you an exact number is because there's illicit uses of drugs over the internet.

01:25:09.180 Right, right.

01:25:09.820 For everyone.

01:25:10.300 Right, yes.

01:25:11.280 But then I want to answer your question in a second way.

01:25:14.260 Because those are numbers.

01:25:16.000 Those are just statistics.

01:25:17.060 The, after I took my story public, I got in touch with like this underground network of mothers and fathers in Dallas.

01:25:26.480 These people reached out to me because they wanted to involve me in what they were doing.

01:25:31.680 These are mothers and fathers who've had a child affected by this.

01:25:35.540 People like me and you, right?

01:25:37.280 Many of them are classical liberals, conservatives.

01:25:39.400 But their kids have been taken in by this transgender ideology. 1.00

01:25:44.360 And there was no network for them.

01:25:47.280 So these, this underground network of parents had formed like in the shadows.

01:25:51.480 Like they all use signal.

01:25:52.700 They're like very shadowy, but they have a huge amount of impact behind the scenes.

01:25:57.140 Like they work on legislation.

01:25:59.480 They work on bills.

01:26:00.420 It's amazing.

01:26:01.380 But I recently went to a meeting at one of their homes.

01:26:05.000 I'm very close with one of them.

01:26:06.160 I can't even say her name because they, they, none of them want to be public, but these people are, I've never heard stories like this.

01:26:14.860 I mean, it's, you know, but they would tell me stories about their kids and, you know, whether they're in high school or middle school, or if they're older and how they got groomed by, you know, a counselor, a friend, someone online.

01:26:30.880 And they come to them one day and say, I'm transgender.

01:26:35.700 I need these drugs.

01:26:37.400 And then a lot of them, you know, they don't know what to do.

01:26:40.120 Right.

01:26:40.380 And, and they lose their children.

01:26:42.620 So they tell these stories about how these children are gone.

01:26:46.240 They haven't talked to them in years.

01:26:47.860 Some of them are being trafficked.

01:26:49.760 Some of them, you know, have lost their jobs.

01:26:52.040 They're addicted to drugs.

01:26:53.040 But you see the pain in their eyes, right, that the, the person they love the most is gone forever, that the things they wanted for, for their children is gone forever.

01:27:03.900 So when, when Cenk Uygur says that this is only a few kids, first of all, that's not true, but these statistics, they have faces, right?

01:27:12.060 This is a person.

01:27:13.180 This is a mother and a father.

01:27:15.120 This is a brother and a sister.

01:27:16.560 These are people who've lost the person they love, love the most.

01:27:19.340 And it's, it's-

01:27:49.340 Especially for healthy breasts. 1.00

01:27:50.380 Oh, yeah.

01:27:50.580 It's like, I do, you know, I do, I do these surgeries and we do it for cancer, right?

01:27:55.040 We do it for a reason.

01:27:56.760 And, and to think that I would take a patient to an operating room with healthy breasts and just take them off is, is horrific.

01:28:03.040 But it's, it's the surgery itself, but it's everything that comes after that.

01:28:07.340 And that's why I learned from these parents, because it's the day-to-day of, of anguish, of depression, of like this existential crisis of never knowing who you are.

01:28:17.220 And your family goes through that suffering too.

01:28:19.400 And they're put on this road from the very beginning, from their 11, 12 years old.

01:28:24.460 And it's like, one day they wake up, they look in the mirror and they think, you know, what's happened to me?

01:28:31.460 And, and the people who are, the people who are supposed to love me were the ones who are supposed to protect me.

01:28:36.220 But these were the people, you know, the ones who were-

01:28:38.920 But, you know, there's that on that too.

01:28:41.160 See, one of the things I found most reprehensible about all of this, the biggest lie in all of this was, well, would you rather have a live trans child or a dead child, right? 1.00

01:28:54.040 This insistence that to parents, that if they dared voice opposition to this absolutely barbaric and unconscionable medical process, that they were basically dooming their children to death.

01:29:07.080 I really, I've studied atrocity for a very long time and I've listened to and read things that were so terrible that it took me a long time to recover.

01:29:21.000 And I swear, I don't know if I've ever come across anything worse than the lie that if you don't facilitate your child's sterilization and mutilation, you're responsible for the death.

01:29:32.280 That is, that's like Auschwitz level brutality and worse.

01:29:37.080 There's no excuse for it.

01:29:38.880 It's prison for those people.

01:29:40.900 It's the most evil lie told in the history of medicine.

01:29:45.120 Because when you think about in the past-

01:29:47.000 Yeah, I think that's right.

01:29:47.320 I think that's right.

01:29:47.980 In the past, when people were harmed by doctors, they would never have had the audacity to make it so that the people they were harming would appear that it was the doctors who were harming them were their salvation.

01:30:02.740 That's never been done in the history of medicine.

01:30:04.980 That's right.

01:30:05.000 That's right.

01:30:05.500 Even the Nazis. 0.82

01:30:06.440 Even the Nazis hid their crimes. 0.87

01:30:08.820 That's right.

01:30:09.660 That's right.

01:30:10.160 Even the people who were being harmed in those camps knew that these doctors were not helping them.

01:30:15.440 But in this case, what they're saying is that we are your salvation.

01:30:18.980 But what they're doing is they're actually, they're existential destruction.

01:30:24.700 Because these children are born perfect.

01:30:27.260 They're perfect people, right?

01:30:30.500 And they're going to grow up.

01:30:31.620 It's hard.

01:30:32.440 But it's those challenges that you go through during that time that make you who you are.

01:30:37.000 And they're taking that away from them.

01:30:38.500 They didn't even tell Chloe Cole that body dysmorphia is a standard symptom of mild juvenile depression.

01:30:52.500 The most obvious psychological fact, right?

01:30:55.520 The sort of thing that any counselor who was trained at all or who wasn't outright lying would have said to her first was never told to her at all.

01:31:05.080 And that's the depth of lies that the therapeutic community is engaged in when they're allies to the trans butchers. 0.92

01:31:15.140 So, and is it, should we be parsing between the differences of this study versus that study when this is accessible to basic universal human logic, which is really the foundation of medicine?

01:31:29.180 If someone's bleeding, if someone's bleeding, you stop the bleeding, right?

01:31:33.240 If you have a confused young child, you do not give them cancer drugs, hormones, and you don't operate on them, right?

01:31:43.080 You tell them to love who they are.

01:31:46.880 And, you know, it's an unimaginable thing.

01:31:51.300 And we should, we just have to see it for what it is.

01:31:54.660 This is not medicine.

01:31:56.520 It's not oriented towards what medicine is.

01:31:59.320 It's not a few degrees off.

01:32:00.940 This is anti-medicine.

01:32:02.860 This is oriented towards not the healing of a patient, but the destruction of a patient.

01:32:08.700 Their destruction, absolutely.

01:32:10.680 All right, sir.

01:32:11.300 Well, that's a good and terrible place to end.

01:32:14.220 And so, as I mentioned earlier, we're going to continue this discussion on the Daily Wire side, and we're going to delve more into the anti-human and anti-medicine origins of the trans insanity that the medical and psychological communities have allowed to possess their entire endeavor. 0.92

01:32:37.880 And so, for all of you watching and listening, you can join us on the Daily Wire Plus side for that discussion.

01:32:44.240 Thank you very much, sir.

01:32:45.840 Thank you.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - June 27, 2024

459. Texas Children's Hospital Exposed for Illegal Gender Affirming Care ｜ Dr. Eithan Haim

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