The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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00:00:57.420 Hello, everybody.

00:01:09.320 So, I had the privilege of speaking with musician John Rich today, and we really focused on a new song he released called Revelation.

00:01:20.580 And I guess we hit that from two different perspectives, because by John's testimony, the song came to him like a revelation.

00:01:31.020 The lyrics and the music sort of pre-made, and that's a fairly common phenomena among expert musicians.

00:01:39.180 And I wanted to delve into the psychological preconditions for that to occur.

00:01:44.880 It's a very religiously oriented song, and so we talked about his movement away from the typical studio musician relationship and his foray into being an independent musician,

00:01:59.120 and why that happened and what it meant and how it freed him up creatively.

00:02:02.620 And we also talked about the psychological and theological or spiritual implications of the song,

00:02:09.220 because the song itself, Revelation, is a revelation of the spirit of the book by that name.

00:02:18.980 And so, we talked about all of that, and the personal elements of it, too,

00:02:24.520 because Rich regards himself as somewhat of a prodigal son who went way out as a young man into the domain of extreme temptation,

00:02:35.940 and then straightened out his life.

00:02:38.200 And so, we also discussed why he did that, and how he realized that that was necessary,

00:02:43.760 and what that has meant to him as a man, and as a father, as a musician,

00:02:48.440 and as an agent of public influence as well.

00:02:54.020 So, join us for that.

00:02:57.500 Hello, sir.

00:02:58.460 Well, we might as well jump right into this.

00:03:00.280 I listened to your song, Revelation, three or four times on the way over here,

00:03:04.200 and I guess I'm kind of curious, you made some references to it,

00:03:10.080 making the case that it kind of came to you in a way that was different, if I understand properly,

00:03:14.960 it was different from many of the songs that you've written.

00:03:17.040 And so, you want to lay out the structure of the song for people who haven't heard it yet,

00:03:21.340 and then we can talk about the inspiration behind it,

00:03:25.240 and also what it is that you're trying to either understand or convey.

00:03:30.180 Well, first of all, thanks for having me on.

00:03:31.900 I've watched you a long time, and I've written over 2,000 songs in my career.

00:03:38.320 So, I'm 50.

00:03:39.780 I started right on the road at 19 years old.

00:03:42.660 So, I've got 31 years of being on the road and writing songs and making music videos and all those things.

00:03:49.120 And this particular song, it was November of 2023, minding my own business,

00:03:57.600 not thinking about writing a song of any type, much less this one.

00:04:01.120 And out of nowhere, it felt like a wave hit me from behind, like something you didn't expect.

00:04:13.000 It felt like a hammer hit me in the back of the head,

00:04:15.600 and I had this melody with these lyrics rolling with it firmly implanted in my mind,

00:04:21.960 almost like a download that hit my brain.

00:04:24.760 And it was saying, oh, revelation, I can feel it coming like a dark train running.

00:04:30.160 Oh, get ready, because the king is coming.

00:04:32.400 The king is coming back again.

00:04:34.020 And it just was rolling over and over,

00:04:36.440 almost like when you've heard a song before and it gets stuck in your head.

00:04:39.660 That's what it felt like, except this song didn't exist,

00:04:43.000 except it's stuck in my head and rolling.

00:04:45.460 And so, I thought, okay, I guess I should probably write this down.

00:04:50.880 And I mean, the hair on my arms was standing up at that point.

00:04:54.080 So, I pulled the guitar off the wall, grabbed a pencil, grabbed a notepad,

00:04:58.620 went to a quiet room in my house, and I sat down and started to write what I was hearing in my head.

00:05:05.900 Wrote the chorus first, and then spent some time writing these verses,

00:05:10.100 and in not very much time, the song Revelation was written.

00:05:13.600 Well, that's when you, as a songwriter, that's when you pull out your iPhone,

00:05:17.260 you turn on the voice notes, because you don't want to forget what you just played.

00:05:22.040 So, you make a little work tape, is what we call it in Nashville.

00:05:25.140 You turn on the record button, and I sang it into the phone,

00:05:28.280 and then put my earbuds in and just walked around the house listening to it over and over and over again.

00:05:34.780 And I had this, just this, like, basically chills all over myself hearing this thing coming back,

00:05:41.640 because I felt like I didn't even write that.

00:05:44.740 Truly, that's what it, like, where did this come from?

00:05:47.120 How did, why did this happen? Where did it come from?

00:05:50.060 And after about an hour of listening to it, walked over to the window of my house,

00:05:54.620 and I looked up, and I said, what do you want me to do with this?

00:05:57.900 Because this is, this is not, this is not a hit song.

00:06:01.720 Like, this is not something you would write ever, and if you did,

00:06:05.180 you definitely wouldn't probably put that out.

00:06:07.640 What do you want me to do with it?

00:06:09.340 Because I knew where it came from.

00:06:10.760 And the message I got back, the phrase that hit me was, take it all the way to the mat.

00:06:18.220 Take it all the way.

00:06:20.260 Meaning, what I took from that was every bit of skill you've got,

00:06:24.600 every bit of know-how you have over these past 30 plus years.

00:06:28.620 Make that audio as great as you possibly can,

00:06:32.740 and make a video that is as compelling as you can possibly come up with.

00:06:38.120 And when you get those two things done,

00:06:40.500 blast it out to the world as wide and as far and as loud as you possibly can.

00:06:45.340 That was the task.

00:06:46.460 I felt like I'd been tasked with this.

00:06:48.540 And so, wrote the song in November.

00:06:52.940 In February of 24, we shot this video, which if people haven't seen this video,

00:06:59.100 I urge you after this interview to go find it.

00:07:01.540 It's just look up John Rich Revelation and you'll find it.

00:07:04.660 And the video is depicting spiritual warfare.

00:07:07.420 It's depicting what's going on on the other side of what the Bible calls the veil.

00:07:12.100 If you could see on the other side of the veil, what would that look like?

00:07:15.080 What would it look like to see good and evil actually battling it out,

00:07:18.960 outside of the physical realm?

00:07:20.920 So, the video is actually my attempt anyway of showing people

00:07:25.520 what it would look like if that was happening.

00:07:28.720 So, we got that done.

00:07:30.800 And then the thought was, okay, how do we get this out there?

00:07:34.680 Because I don't have a record deal.

00:07:36.480 I don't have a publishing deal.

00:07:38.340 I don't work for anybody, doctor, nobody.

00:07:41.840 Which I used to think was a bad thing.

00:07:43.760 You know, when you grow up your whole life and your American dream is,

00:07:47.840 I want to land a big record deal.

00:07:49.320 I want to be on country radio.

00:07:51.040 I want to write hit songs, which I did all those things.

00:07:55.020 And so, to not be on a record label, to step away from that industry,

00:07:59.860 at the time, seemed like a terrible thing.

00:08:02.700 But what I've realized, especially with a song like Revelation,

00:08:06.140 is that if I still had a record deal,

00:08:08.620 if I was still answering to a big company,

00:08:12.260 this song would have never been heard by anyone.

00:08:15.060 They would have taken this song, shoved it off on a shelf,

00:08:18.080 and said, okay, cool song, John.

00:08:20.480 What else you got?

00:08:21.620 They would have never promoted this.

00:08:23.300 So, I don't have that physical machine behind me,

00:08:26.520 but I do have a spiritual machine behind me.

00:08:30.740 And I did what he told me to do.

00:08:33.200 He gave me the song.

00:08:34.660 He told me to make it as great as I could.

00:08:36.600 I did that.

00:08:37.700 Then he said, blast it out there.

00:08:39.380 So, I did that.

00:08:40.580 So, at that point, I said, all right, what's on you now?

00:08:44.640 Do what you will.

00:08:46.660 You're my booking agent, and you're my marketing director.

00:08:50.260 So, I have at it, boss.

00:08:52.000 And next thing I know, doctor,

00:08:53.500 this thing has got millions and millions of views.

00:08:56.960 Tucker Carlson is calling.

00:08:58.400 I'm going on his show, did his show.

00:09:00.820 People like yourself start reaching out and going,

00:09:03.240 hey, let's talk about this for a minute.

00:09:04.780 And then online, it's unbelievable

00:09:07.580 what has happened with this.

00:09:09.700 And I think that speaks to the nature of where it came from,

00:09:14.400 that it was thrust upon me.

00:09:18.500 And trust me, it's somewhat of an unnerving experience

00:09:21.460 to take a song like that about that subject

00:09:25.000 and just blast it right out,

00:09:26.660 especially knowing how our culture works these days

00:09:29.700 and how much pushback you're going to get from people

00:09:36.040 or look at you funny or whatever.

00:09:38.480 But nevertheless, I was told to do it, so I did it.

00:09:41.480 So, that brings us to this conversation where,

00:09:44.920 you know, to me, the song is what it is,

00:09:48.000 and it says a lot.

00:09:49.480 I mean, it says a whole lot,

00:09:50.580 and we can go through those lyrics.

00:09:52.360 What it's really done is it crowbarred the door open

00:09:56.680 just enough where we get to have the big conversation,

00:10:00.040 the really big, more than just a three-and-a-half-minute song.

00:10:03.140 We get to go in-depth now and talk about

00:10:05.200 what that song really means and where we really are today.

00:10:08.260 Well, let's do that.

00:10:09.980 I got a couple of questions from what you just said,

00:10:13.280 but then I would like to walk through it lyric by lyric

00:10:16.780 and discuss that.

00:10:18.920 I think that would be very, very interesting.

00:10:21.920 I do some piano improvisation for what it's worth,

00:10:26.200 and one of the things I've noticed that's quite strange

00:10:29.240 is that if I haven't played for a while and I sit down,

00:10:33.540 I usually have something new right at hand.

00:10:36.420 It's as if there's something operating in the background

00:10:38.740 that's continually working that I'm not really aware of,

00:10:43.480 but that's available.

00:10:44.900 Like, I only play, I suppose, every couple of weeks

00:10:47.740 because I'm on the road so much and moving around,

00:10:49.980 but there is a stream of melody

00:10:53.240 that's running in the back of my mind.

00:10:56.000 It appears to be constant in some ways

00:10:58.960 because it's there when I play,

00:11:02.120 and that's very interesting.

00:11:04.140 It's interesting to speculate about

00:11:05.960 why that might be the case.

00:11:07.300 You said with this song

00:11:08.480 that it was both melody and lyrics that came to you,

00:11:10.840 and you said that that was different

00:11:12.420 from other experiences of musical writing that you've had,

00:11:16.720 so I would like to know how it differed,

00:11:18.520 but I'd also like to know,

00:11:20.460 there's something else you said that's quite curious,

00:11:22.260 which is that when you wrote the song,

00:11:25.080 and perhaps at the moment,

00:11:26.260 I don't know your contractual arrangements at the moment,

00:11:29.920 but that you're not beholden to any record label

00:11:32.040 or any industry.

00:11:33.500 And so I guess one of the things you might suppose

00:11:36.300 is that you think that freed up your creative imagination

00:11:40.200 in a way that was new

00:11:41.500 and allowed this to sort of spring forth?

00:11:44.560 Like, do you think there's a relationship

00:11:46.160 between the fact that you're not bound

00:11:48.280 by industry contractual obligations

00:11:51.280 or even by the necessity of serving a particular market

00:11:54.000 that increased the probability

00:11:56.560 that you would have a song like this

00:11:58.180 enter the theater of your imagination?

00:12:01.720 Yes.

00:12:02.300 So let me take those questions.

00:12:03.940 So the first question is,

00:12:06.440 why is this,

00:12:07.380 how do you normally write a song?

00:12:08.560 I think basically is your question.

00:12:10.120 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:10.740 You know, I've written over a couple of thousand songs

00:12:12.840 in my career.

00:12:14.800 Generally, when you're writing a song

00:12:17.020 to try to write a hit song,

00:12:18.560 which is what I have always tried to do,

00:12:21.220 you've got a particular thing,

00:12:22.680 you kind of looking at the trend

00:12:25.100 in my world to be country music.

00:12:26.900 You're looking at the trends

00:12:28.000 of what hit songs are sounding like right now.

00:12:30.840 You look at the top 40,

00:12:32.080 you go, what's hitting, what's not hitting.

00:12:34.000 And so you try to land

00:12:35.200 in that kind of a vein of a song.

00:12:37.540 And then you'll sit around

00:12:39.160 and think up song titles

00:12:40.640 or think up some angle

00:12:41.860 of how to come at a love song

00:12:43.660 or a sad song or a party song

00:12:46.280 or whatever it is you're trying to write.

00:12:47.840 And then you'll go after it.

00:12:49.320 And you may write eight or 10

00:12:51.560 trying to land that perfect one

00:12:53.640 that sounds like it's a hit

00:12:54.740 where all the factors about it

00:12:55.960 has just got that hit factor to it.

00:12:57.920 I've also written a lot of songs

00:12:59.320 for other people.

00:13:00.960 So I've had songs,

00:13:02.180 everybody from Taylor Swift

00:13:04.280 to Faith Hill, Gretchen Wilson.

00:13:07.460 I mean, if you go look me up,

00:13:08.720 it's a lot of songs.

00:13:10.140 And in those instances,

00:13:12.140 they'll come to me and say,

00:13:14.540 I want you to write me a song

00:13:16.580 about that, about this.

00:13:18.460 I want it to sound like this

00:13:19.880 and talk about that and be X, Y, Z.

00:13:22.360 Like they gave you

00:13:22.940 really specific instructions

00:13:24.320 as to what they're trying to cut.

00:13:26.560 So I call that sniper songwriting.

00:13:28.560 That's like, okay,

00:13:29.420 they showed me the target.

00:13:30.960 Now I got to find that target

00:13:32.280 and I got to hit it with this song,

00:13:34.140 whatever that is.

00:13:35.020 And I've had a lot of success

00:13:36.300 doing that as well.

00:13:37.980 Revelation was neither of those things.

00:13:40.220 Revelation,

00:13:41.420 I wasn't even in a songwriting frame of mind.

00:13:43.760 Like you're talking about your music.

00:13:46.400 That hits you as a musician.

00:13:48.460 Sometimes you're just in the frame of mind.

00:13:50.760 It's just, wow, I just, okay.

00:13:52.880 I feel like my mind is opened up right now

00:13:55.080 on the musical side.

00:13:56.120 I feel the incoming.

00:13:57.740 It's like Tom Petty.

00:13:58.800 I got to sit with Tom Petty one time

00:14:00.580 at a songwriter conference in Los Angeles.

00:14:04.900 And a lady out in the audience says,

00:14:07.360 Mr. Petty,

00:14:08.820 how do you get your ideas for your songs?

00:14:11.160 And Tom Petty goes,

00:14:13.700 you know,

00:14:13.880 he's slouched back in the chair

00:14:15.260 and he goes,

00:14:15.780 well,

00:14:16.740 I just stretched my antenna out there

00:14:18.960 and wait for a song

00:14:20.820 to pass across it like that.

00:14:23.760 He has stick my antenna out

00:14:25.120 and wait for one.

00:14:26.900 And there's,

00:14:27.340 there's a lot of truth to that

00:14:28.460 when you're a songwriter

00:14:29.300 or a musician.

00:14:30.560 Revelation was none of those things.

00:14:32.440 This was something that

00:14:33.720 hit me out of nowhere.

00:14:36.640 I used the word thrust upon me.

00:14:38.700 It was,

00:14:39.440 it was downloaded to me.

00:14:43.120 And I had no choice

00:14:44.760 but to sit down

00:14:45.680 and put pencil to paper

00:14:47.100 and try to capture

00:14:48.000 what this was

00:14:49.340 and bring it into the physical.

00:14:51.920 All right.

00:14:52.240 So number of things there.

00:14:54.000 So one of the ways

00:14:56.660 that you distinguished

00:14:57.740 what you had been doing previously

00:14:59.860 from whatever happened

00:15:01.220 when you produced this song

00:15:03.040 or when this song came to you

00:15:04.220 was that

00:15:04.680 it was funny

00:15:06.280 while you were talking

00:15:07.080 I wrote down the word target

00:15:08.540 before you said the word.

00:15:10.680 Right.

00:15:10.960 So

00:15:11.180 one of the ways

00:15:13.420 you can think about

00:15:14.320 your imagination operating

00:15:16.500 is that

00:15:16.980 your imagination

00:15:17.860 and your verbal thoughts

00:15:20.640 are

00:15:21.900 what would

00:15:23.420 they

00:15:23.880 search for

00:15:26.340 abstract ways

00:15:28.500 of moving you forward

00:15:29.460 to a goal.

00:15:31.620 And so you

00:15:32.240 you specified

00:15:33.060 the goal

00:15:33.720 you said

00:15:34.460 that you were

00:15:35.200 attempting to hit

00:15:36.560 with your more commercial work.

00:15:38.660 You said

00:15:39.060 you familiarize yourself

00:15:40.800 with what was popular

00:15:42.220 so that means

00:15:43.340 you're communicating

00:15:43.900 with your audience.

00:15:45.300 Comedians kind of do that

00:15:46.440 when they go to their clubs

00:15:47.480 before they do a big tour

00:15:48.880 and they try out jokes.

00:15:50.620 Right.

00:15:50.760 You kind of want to see

00:15:51.580 what's hot

00:15:52.400 in the popular culture

00:15:53.900 and hit that.

00:15:55.720 And then you said as well

00:15:56.720 that you were

00:15:57.300 you're listening to top 40

00:15:58.900 you're aiming at

00:15:59.440 something commercial

00:16:00.260 and that's the target

00:16:01.620 and that people

00:16:02.100 are actually hiring you

00:16:03.100 for that.

00:16:03.560 So in some ways

00:16:04.760 you're harnessing

00:16:06.000 your imagination

00:16:06.680 to that end.

00:16:08.300 And obviously

00:16:08.760 that's been extremely successful

00:16:10.280 as you pointed out

00:16:11.160 because you've written

00:16:11.880 you can do that.

00:16:13.120 You have the ability

00:16:13.840 to do that.

00:16:14.900 But it also means that

00:16:16.140 and this isn't a criticism

00:16:17.440 it's an observation.

00:16:18.900 It also means

00:16:19.740 that you're subordinating

00:16:20.940 your creative imagination

00:16:22.240 or you're directing

00:16:23.640 your creative imagination

00:16:24.840 to something

00:16:26.200 approximating

00:16:26.920 a commercial goal.

00:16:28.500 Now you know

00:16:28.840 there's artistry in that.

00:16:30.280 But I have a friend

00:16:30.960 named Greg Hurwitz

00:16:32.020 who very very smart guy

00:16:33.480 and he writes

00:16:34.120 popular

00:16:35.360 slick popular

00:16:36.540 movie oriented fiction.

00:16:38.500 You know

00:16:38.620 and that's his niche

00:16:39.560 and that's a valid niche.

00:16:41.740 It's sort of the niche

00:16:42.900 that film noir

00:16:43.680 came out of

00:16:44.320 and there's art

00:16:47.020 in hitting that target

00:16:48.380 squarely.

00:16:49.420 But that is quite a lot

00:16:50.320 different from

00:16:51.140 you might say

00:16:52.800 that's quite a bit different

00:16:53.960 from letting your imagination

00:16:56.200 or the revelation

00:16:57.520 take you wherever it will.

00:16:59.320 Now you said

00:17:00.680 you know

00:17:00.920 you also didn't exactly

00:17:01.960 have the luxury

00:17:02.800 so to speak

00:17:03.480 to do that

00:17:04.020 if you're bound

00:17:04.620 by contractual obligation

00:17:07.000 to people

00:17:07.740 who expect you

00:17:08.720 to produce hits

00:17:09.560 and you can understand

00:17:10.460 why

00:17:10.840 because things have

00:17:11.640 to be commercially successful.

00:17:13.320 So when did you

00:17:14.160 when did you stop

00:17:15.860 being bound

00:17:17.780 by those sorts

00:17:19.280 of contractual obligations

00:17:20.740 that were directing you

00:17:22.380 more in the

00:17:23.120 specifically commercial direction?

00:17:25.180 Going online

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00:17:34.860 that weird yellow mask

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00:19:00.640 slash jordan.

00:19:01.360 It's been probably

00:19:05.700 six or seven years

00:19:06.660 at this point

00:19:07.320 and the way

00:19:08.020 that that began

00:19:08.880 that relationship

00:19:09.660 began to unravel

00:19:10.600 was

00:19:11.900 for a long time

00:19:13.820 I played their game.

00:19:14.940 You know people think

00:19:15.580 Nashville, Tennessee

00:19:16.380 is

00:19:16.780 that's all the good

00:19:17.960 country boys and girls

00:19:18.940 you know

00:19:19.320 and

00:19:20.120 what they don't realize

00:19:21.840 is

00:19:22.180 is Music Row

00:19:23.280 Nashville, Tennessee

00:19:24.300 it's owned by the same

00:19:25.940 basically the same

00:19:26.860 big three companies

00:19:27.680 that own Hollywood.

00:19:28.340 It's Sony, Universal

00:19:30.340 and Warner Brothers

00:19:31.460 and between those

00:19:32.260 big three conglomerates

00:19:33.480 you got 90%

00:19:34.580 of every record label

00:19:35.460 wrapped up

00:19:36.100 there.

00:19:36.800 So it's the same

00:19:37.560 ideology

00:19:38.140 of the Hollywood companies

00:19:40.200 just now in Nashville

00:19:41.360 and so because of that

00:19:42.920 the presidents

00:19:43.480 those labels

00:19:44.180 the head of their

00:19:44.700 A&R departments

00:19:45.480 now not all of them

00:19:46.660 but most of them

00:19:47.840 that are in charge

00:19:48.580 it was coming down

00:19:49.920 to me that

00:19:50.620 hey

00:19:50.960 we really don't want you

00:19:52.440 to go on that network

00:19:53.680 we really don't want you

00:19:54.620 to talk about that subject

00:19:55.880 we really don't want you

00:19:56.860 to post about this

00:19:57.960 hey John

00:19:58.940 we need to have a meeting

00:20:00.100 this is too controversial

00:20:02.280 and

00:20:03.220 I played that game

00:20:04.320 with them for a while

00:20:05.100 because

00:20:05.580 you know

00:20:06.360 you got a lot

00:20:06.900 on the line there man

00:20:07.860 I mean

00:20:08.100 you've been working

00:20:08.660 at this your whole life

00:20:09.680 you've got records

00:20:11.440 coming out

00:20:11.960 you've got

00:20:12.340 you've got band

00:20:13.340 and light guys

00:20:14.300 and sound guys

00:20:15.160 and bus drivers

00:20:16.240 and you know

00:20:16.940 all kinds of people's

00:20:18.240 income depend

00:20:19.020 on you

00:20:20.100 on you maintaining

00:20:21.060 your career

00:20:21.700 and so I played

00:20:22.940 that game

00:20:23.340 for a little while

00:20:24.080 but at one point

00:20:25.060 it got to the point

00:20:26.860 where I said

00:20:27.440 you know what

00:20:28.020 my two sons

00:20:29.520 were getting old enough

00:20:30.480 to really start

00:20:31.240 paying attention to me

00:20:32.140 they're 14 and 12 now

00:20:33.620 at this point

00:20:34.420 they were

00:20:34.880 probably 7 and 9

00:20:36.500 and

00:20:38.540 I said

00:20:39.500 well what kind of example

00:20:40.600 is that

00:20:41.220 for me to set

00:20:42.160 for these boys

00:20:42.900 I mean

00:20:43.280 I'm gonna sit here

00:20:44.640 and

00:20:45.520 rant and rail

00:20:47.440 against the system

00:20:48.560 and how bad it is

00:20:49.940 but then I'm gonna

00:20:51.220 shut my mouth

00:20:52.040 and put on my gear

00:20:53.000 and walk down

00:20:53.520 a red carpet

00:20:54.080 with these people

00:20:54.860 and still

00:20:55.300 and go in here

00:20:56.080 and do what

00:20:56.540 they're telling me

00:20:57.060 to do

00:20:57.440 so at that point

00:20:59.500 I said

00:20:59.780 so my integrity

00:21:00.560 is for sale

00:21:01.460 and my freedom

00:21:03.620 of speech

00:21:04.000 apparently is for sale

00:21:05.080 it has a price tag

00:21:06.380 because that's the game

00:21:07.580 I'm playing right now

00:21:08.420 and when my boys

00:21:09.480 got old enough

00:21:10.140 where I realized

00:21:10.760 they saw what I was doing

00:21:11.920 it hit me really hard man

00:21:13.480 I mean really hard

00:21:14.680 because

00:21:15.100 if it's this bad

00:21:16.560 for me

00:21:16.940 what's it gonna be like

00:21:17.800 for my boys

00:21:18.540 when they grow up

00:21:19.340 and leave

00:21:19.660 they're gonna run

00:21:20.240 right into the buzzsaw

00:21:21.140 and their blueprint

00:21:22.300 is well how did dad

00:21:23.660 handle it

00:21:24.200 well dad just rolled over

00:21:26.020 and kept taking the paychecks

00:21:27.640 what dad did

00:21:28.240 so I guess that's the right way

00:21:29.180 to do it

00:21:29.580 I said yeah

00:21:30.280 we're not gonna let that happen

00:21:31.440 so we broke away

00:21:33.600 from that system

00:21:34.420 broke away from the record labels

00:21:35.800 the publishing companies

00:21:36.740 and all those levers

00:21:38.480 of power

00:21:39.420 that exist over music

00:21:40.980 now because of that

00:21:42.180 I've never had another

00:21:44.060 hit song at country radio

00:21:45.520 I've never had another song

00:21:46.960 that you know

00:21:47.920 blew up

00:21:48.860 like that

00:21:49.800 like some of our

00:21:50.760 big career songs

00:21:51.700 but the inverse

00:21:53.600 of that is

00:21:54.620 the people out there

00:21:57.600 the American people

00:21:58.680 that know I don't have

00:22:00.340 that system in place

00:22:01.380 behind me anymore

00:22:02.160 if I give them content

00:22:03.900 that strikes them

00:22:05.380 whatever that is

00:22:06.260 if it moves them

00:22:07.220 here they come

00:22:08.780 and I would say

00:22:09.840 that I think

00:22:10.700 that the amount of support

00:22:11.720 I have today

00:22:12.900 out there amongst

00:22:14.140 just the general public

00:22:15.180 as compared to back

00:22:16.120 when I had a record deal

00:22:17.240 has multiplied

00:22:18.260 three or four hundred percent

00:22:19.680 I mean I wouldn't go back

00:22:21.580 I wouldn't go back

00:22:22.540 for anything in the world

00:22:23.480 never

00:22:24.000 and so

00:22:24.960 as far as freedom goes

00:22:26.880 Dr. Peterson

00:22:27.980 I've never been more free

00:22:29.820 to do what I want to do

00:22:31.800 than I am right now

00:22:32.980 and I will say

00:22:34.080 I will say that

00:22:34.660 a song like Revelation

00:22:35.620 like I said before

00:22:36.540 if I still had a contract

00:22:38.400 like that

00:22:39.020 you guys would have

00:22:40.000 never heard it

00:22:40.580 and to me

00:22:41.480 that is disconnecting

00:22:43.320 that is short circuiting

00:22:45.340 what God's plan is

00:22:47.200 for me

00:22:47.960 and for the abilities

00:22:49.240 he's given me

00:22:49.960 and the talent

00:22:50.500 and the opportunities

00:22:51.400 he's given me

00:22:52.200 if I'm still connected

00:22:53.580 to some nasty record label

00:22:55.060 that doesn't believe

00:22:56.620 in what I'm doing

00:22:57.400 and what I'm saying

00:22:58.180 that can stop that

00:22:59.760 well that had to go away

00:23:00.920 even though at the time

00:23:02.040 I really

00:23:02.540 I hated to lose it

00:23:04.460 because I knew

00:23:05.800 how powerful that is

00:23:07.360 and I'd been in it

00:23:07.860 my whole life

00:23:08.500 but it wasn't too long

00:23:09.900 after that

00:23:10.560 a matter of weeks

00:23:12.120 that I realized

00:23:13.160 wow

00:23:13.540 I'm actually free

00:23:14.520 at this point

00:23:15.200 I'm actually a free man

00:23:16.940 I can say whatever I want

00:23:18.740 sing whatever I want

00:23:19.960 promote it however I want to

00:23:21.460 and that led

00:23:22.720 to answer your question

00:23:23.860 from earlier

00:23:24.400 that led to

00:23:25.280 yes

00:23:25.600 my songwriting

00:23:26.520 my artistry

00:23:27.880 and what I want to do

00:23:28.820 literally became

00:23:30.040 wide open at that point

00:23:31.500 I could do whatever

00:23:32.780 I wanted to do

00:23:33.840 which brought us

00:23:34.800 to this song Revelation

00:23:35.820 okay okay

00:23:38.300 okay so let me

00:23:39.380 let me weave my way

00:23:41.140 through that a bit here

00:23:42.200 so you started by

00:23:44.140 talking about

00:23:45.020 the fact that

00:23:45.920 when you wrote

00:23:47.340 the majority

00:23:48.140 of the 2000 songs

00:23:49.560 that you wrote

00:23:50.400 you did have

00:23:51.580 commercial

00:23:52.620 top 40 success

00:23:54.180 in mind

00:23:54.640 and were often

00:23:55.380 commissioned

00:23:55.820 specifically to do that

00:23:57.160 and we talked about

00:23:58.360 the fact that

00:23:58.960 there can be

00:23:59.380 real artistry

00:24:00.220 involved

00:24:00.720 in that

00:24:01.740 now

00:24:02.540 but then it sounds

00:24:03.700 like the additional

00:24:05.120 necessity

00:24:06.360 to

00:24:07.540 toe the

00:24:08.880 party line

00:24:10.020 let's say

00:24:10.640 started to put

00:24:11.900 constraints

00:24:12.660 on your

00:24:13.700 creative ability

00:24:15.600 but also on

00:24:16.380 your conscience

00:24:17.120 that began

00:24:18.820 to plague you

00:24:19.900 and you

00:24:20.500 said that

00:24:21.320 one of the things

00:24:21.920 that plagued you

00:24:22.480 about that

00:24:22.980 in particular

00:24:23.600 was your sense

00:24:25.000 that you were

00:24:25.600 giving the wrong

00:24:26.400 message to your

00:24:27.340 boys

00:24:27.800 and they were

00:24:28.560 pretty young

00:24:29.080 when you started

00:24:30.180 thinking about that

00:24:31.040 so let me ask you

00:24:32.620 two questions

00:24:33.220 about that

00:24:33.840 the first is

00:24:34.720 what risks

00:24:37.000 do

00:24:37.360 see

00:24:37.740 the reason

00:24:39.260 that it bothers

00:24:39.960 me so much

00:24:40.680 to see

00:24:41.280 creative people

00:24:42.620 become ideologically

00:24:44.340 possessed

00:24:44.820 is that

00:24:45.600 the only thing

00:24:46.700 that creative

00:24:47.200 people have

00:24:48.160 is the

00:24:50.000 genuine

00:24:51.000 creativity

00:24:52.000 of their production

00:24:52.960 right

00:24:53.520 and that's really

00:24:54.340 the goose that

00:24:55.020 lays the golden eggs

00:24:56.040 and that's rather

00:24:57.700 a fragile beast

00:24:58.840 I mean

00:24:59.420 first of all

00:25:00.100 most people

00:25:01.480 don't have it

00:25:02.380 high level

00:25:03.440 creativity

00:25:04.000 is a relatively

00:25:04.700 rare trait

00:25:05.480 and then

00:25:06.380 it's

00:25:08.180 easily crushed

00:25:09.580 and it only

00:25:10.060 flourishes

00:25:10.560 under some

00:25:11.160 conditions

00:25:11.660 and one of

00:25:12.260 the conditions

00:25:12.820 it flourishes

00:25:13.620 under

00:25:14.000 by all appearances

00:25:15.240 is something

00:25:15.900 like freedom

00:25:16.740 right

00:25:17.540 now you can

00:25:18.200 well you can

00:25:19.360 maybe put

00:25:19.840 a couple

00:25:20.500 of constraints

00:25:21.220 on it

00:25:21.700 as we discussed

00:25:23.000 with regards

00:25:23.600 to your commercial

00:25:24.320 aim

00:25:24.640 but if you

00:25:25.040 keep piling

00:25:25.620 on the

00:25:26.240 impossibilities

00:25:28.560 or the

00:25:29.280 arbitrary

00:25:29.760 restrictions

00:25:30.400 the arbitrary

00:25:31.440 restrictions

00:25:32.000 then you risk

00:25:33.080 doing yourself

00:25:33.740 damage

00:25:34.200 so two

00:25:35.600 questions there

00:25:36.420 like what

00:25:37.380 did you notice

00:25:38.340 if anything

00:25:39.040 happening to

00:25:40.000 your ability

00:25:40.680 to write

00:25:41.440 creatively

00:25:42.180 under those

00:25:42.740 constraints

00:25:43.200 and also

00:25:44.220 like how

00:25:44.840 did you become

00:25:45.520 aware

00:25:45.960 for example

00:25:47.000 that you

00:25:47.440 weren't setting

00:25:48.060 a good example

00:25:48.840 for your boys

00:25:49.640 and like

00:25:50.580 how did you

00:25:51.500 discover that

00:25:52.260 or come to

00:25:52.700 realize that

00:25:53.480 so under

00:25:54.000 those constraints

00:25:54.900 your songwriting

00:25:55.980 at that point

00:25:56.680 is completely

00:25:58.280 superficial

00:25:59.020 it's only

00:26:00.160 to make a check

00:26:01.080 it's only

00:26:01.540 to make a dollar

00:26:02.340 it's only

00:26:02.820 to get a plaque

00:26:03.740 it's only

00:26:04.660 to further

00:26:05.220 yourself

00:26:05.860 which is

00:26:07.680 highly superficial

00:26:09.280 to me

00:26:10.240 and so

00:26:11.360 when you start

00:26:12.540 talking about

00:26:13.060 my two sons

00:26:14.260 well man

00:26:15.140 that's as deep

00:26:15.760 as you're gonna get

00:26:16.540 I mean

00:26:16.960 there's nothing

00:26:17.560 more important

00:26:18.160 than that

00:26:18.700 to me

00:26:19.280 and so

00:26:20.240 when I saw

00:26:20.900 that the example

00:26:22.080 I was setting

00:26:23.280 and that they

00:26:23.740 were gonna be

00:26:24.300 following

00:26:24.740 was superficial

00:26:26.040 in nature

00:26:27.040 that

00:26:27.400 wow dad's

00:26:28.780 we know dad's

00:26:30.300 a real McCoy

00:26:31.020 but dad's

00:26:32.100 willing to go

00:26:32.620 superficial

00:26:33.220 if it means

00:26:34.020 he keeps

00:26:34.400 getting that money

00:26:35.140 and getting

00:26:35.460 those plaques

00:26:36.400 that is no way

00:26:37.460 to live

00:26:37.720 I'd rather you

00:26:38.240 be completely

00:26:38.880 broke

00:26:39.400 in your life

00:26:40.860 poor as a church

00:26:41.740 mouse

00:26:42.120 but have your

00:26:43.440 constitution about you

00:26:44.660 and have integrity

00:26:45.480 about you

00:26:46.260 and be a

00:26:47.120 be a real McCoy

00:26:48.480 as we would call

00:26:49.200 them in the country

00:26:49.800 I'd much rather

00:26:50.640 my boys be that

00:26:51.600 I don't care

00:26:52.480 about them

00:26:52.940 what they do

00:26:53.940 when it comes

00:26:54.760 to financial stuff

00:26:55.880 and so

00:26:56.860 turning that corner

00:26:58.400 and getting away

00:26:59.360 from those shackles

00:27:00.400 of what the industry

00:27:01.540 was limiting me to

00:27:03.460 turned me loose

00:27:05.140 I mean it turned me loose

00:27:06.540 for a minute

00:27:07.020 it's almost like

00:27:07.900 wait you mean

00:27:08.700 I can actually

00:27:09.400 step over here

00:27:10.540 and nobody's gonna

00:27:11.180 pop me

00:27:11.760 okay

00:27:12.940 and so I step over there

00:27:14.240 well can I take

00:27:15.120 another step

00:27:15.820 yep

00:27:16.600 and nobody

00:27:17.340 popped me then

00:27:18.020 as far as the industry

00:27:19.320 nobody popped me

00:27:20.100 now the press

00:27:21.180 and other people

00:27:21.840 they come at me

00:27:22.600 all the time

00:27:23.140 but the way I look

00:27:24.240 at people attacking

00:27:25.720 what I have to say

00:27:26.660 is it's validation

00:27:27.580 that I hit the mark

00:27:28.780 it's validation

00:27:29.660 that I said it correctly

00:27:31.020 you know

00:27:31.640 if everybody likes

00:27:32.520 what you have to say

00:27:33.380 you're not saying it correctly

00:27:34.680 that's the way

00:27:35.760 I've always thought

00:27:36.940 and that's the way

00:27:37.500 I feel today

00:27:38.120 so it loosened me up

00:27:40.200 doctor in such a way

00:27:41.300 that I could

00:27:41.940 I could

00:27:42.360 I think be more of a

00:27:44.160 just a wide open instrument

00:27:46.360 for whatever comes in

00:27:48.680 that I think's important

00:27:49.760 that's been laid on me

00:27:50.860 that's important

00:27:51.580 then I can make that happen

00:27:53.080 there's no guarantee

00:27:53.820 it's gonna be a

00:27:54.860 quote success

00:27:55.720 but I can make it a reality

00:27:57.660 that's all you can really ask for

00:27:59.520 I think about

00:28:00.260 the Declaration of Independence

00:28:01.900 when it says

00:28:02.940 we have the rights

00:28:03.880 to life

00:28:04.420 liberty

00:28:04.800 and the pursuit

00:28:05.580 of happiness

00:28:06.260 it doesn't say

00:28:06.960 we have the right

00:28:07.680 to be happy

00:28:08.740 or the right

00:28:09.660 to be successful

00:28:10.620 the right to be rich

00:28:12.160 or any of these other things

00:28:12.960 says you have the right

00:28:13.900 to pursue happiness

00:28:15.560 to go after it

00:28:16.600 the word pursuit

00:28:17.580 in itself

00:28:18.120 means in motion

00:28:19.060 that means happiness

00:28:20.240 is a moving target

00:28:21.220 I'm sure you would tell me

00:28:22.880 what's happiness

00:28:23.680 to you in your 20s

00:28:24.760 30s

00:28:25.240 40s

00:28:25.740 50s

00:28:26.340 well it does change

00:28:27.420 as your life changes

00:28:28.800 so those are the principles

00:28:30.720 that I look at

00:28:31.480 and at the end of the day

00:28:32.420 I know who gave me

00:28:33.340 the ability to do it

00:28:34.280 in the first place

00:28:35.100 you know

00:28:35.760 I yielded to him

00:28:36.600 a long time ago

00:28:37.500 and so

00:28:37.960 if you're yielded to him

00:28:39.780 to the Lord

00:28:40.400 and then he knows

00:28:41.780 that you're willing

00:28:42.580 to run through a door

00:28:44.120 that he opens for you

00:28:45.300 he'll give you stuff

00:28:47.060 he'll send you things

00:28:48.540 and revelation

00:28:49.420 is one of those things

00:28:50.620 okay

00:28:51.560 so a couple of questions

00:28:53.100 about that

00:28:53.940 the first one is

00:28:55.120 you

00:28:55.800 I guess I have

00:28:56.800 three questions really

00:28:57.860 like

00:28:58.580 what gave you

00:29:00.760 the sense

00:29:01.420 that you were

00:29:02.600 leading your boys

00:29:03.520 astray

00:29:04.000 I mean they were

00:29:04.580 very young

00:29:05.220 and the sorts of things

00:29:06.080 that you're talking about

00:29:07.180 are relatively subtle

00:29:09.220 and so

00:29:10.340 was it guilt

00:29:11.860 on your part

00:29:12.640 or was it something

00:29:13.480 that you think

00:29:14.280 they could actually see

00:29:15.640 or was it something

00:29:16.700 that you were afraid

00:29:17.540 they were going to be able

00:29:18.480 to see

00:29:18.920 you know

00:29:19.280 like

00:29:19.540 I'm not clear

00:29:21.080 about the actual details

00:29:22.280 but what was plaguing

00:29:23.400 your conscience

00:29:23.960 now

00:29:24.460 I can understand

00:29:25.800 that you were

00:29:26.620 increasingly

00:29:27.340 uncomfortable

00:29:28.220 with the

00:29:29.820 constraints

00:29:30.520 on your free speech

00:29:31.720 and obviously

00:29:32.460 that's at least

00:29:33.500 in part

00:29:33.920 because those constraints

00:29:35.000 pose a danger

00:29:35.760 to your creative ability

00:29:37.040 but I still don't

00:29:38.420 quite exactly

00:29:39.180 understand

00:29:39.860 how it was

00:29:41.000 that you became

00:29:41.740 convinced

00:29:42.200 that you were

00:29:42.840 setting the wrong

00:29:43.680 wrong model

00:29:45.520 let's say

00:29:45.960 for your sons

00:29:46.720 what do you think

00:29:47.460 it was that

00:29:47.920 they were seeing

00:29:48.720 was it reflected

00:29:50.620 in the way

00:29:51.000 you were talking

00:29:51.560 to them

00:29:51.880 or in a bitterness

00:29:53.120 like what

00:29:53.840 what was going on

00:29:55.400 yeah well I think

00:29:56.360 we've all found

00:29:56.920 ourselves watching

00:29:57.700 the evening news

00:29:58.640 and going

00:29:59.020 can you believe

00:29:59.700 these people

00:30:00.300 can you believe

00:30:00.980 what's going on

00:30:01.620 in our country

00:30:02.080 right now

00:30:02.580 or you know

00:30:03.320 they'd overhear me

00:30:04.280 talking to my wife

00:30:05.160 about can you believe

00:30:06.060 what this record label

00:30:07.080 is doing

00:30:07.520 or I just got in trouble

00:30:08.480 for doing an interview

00:30:09.300 with this guy

00:30:09.940 and they're hearing

00:30:11.340 these things

00:30:12.080 but then I'll

00:30:13.440 gear back up

00:30:14.260 and walk right back

00:30:15.080 out there

00:30:15.440 and go play ball

00:30:16.220 with the exact same people

00:30:17.320 that I've been yelling

00:30:18.000 at the house

00:30:18.520 that's called

00:30:19.040 being a hypocrite

00:30:19.980 that is the essence

00:30:21.280 of being a hypocrite

00:30:22.400 which is probably

00:30:23.460 the worst thing

00:30:24.100 you could be

00:30:24.700 I mean even in the bible

00:30:26.100 it says

00:30:26.580 I'd rather you be hot

00:30:27.920 or be cold

00:30:28.620 but if you're lukewarm

00:30:29.640 I'll spit you out

00:30:30.540 of my mouth

00:30:31.120 that was from

00:30:32.040 the son of God

00:30:33.200 himself said that

00:30:34.180 so you do not want

00:30:35.100 to be lukewarm

00:30:36.220 if you're going

00:30:37.780 to be a bad guy

00:30:38.520 be a real bad guy

00:30:39.580 if you're going

00:30:40.240 to be a good guy

00:30:40.880 be a really good guy

00:30:42.140 don't be in the middle

00:30:43.280 there's a lot

00:30:43.720 of fence riders

00:30:44.360 and so I felt like

00:30:45.640 just looking at myself

00:30:46.680 I'm trying to ride

00:30:47.760 the fence here

00:30:48.420 with this deal

00:30:49.180 and I'm commanded

00:30:50.700 to not do that

00:30:51.880 and so knowing

00:30:53.480 my boys were on the edge

00:30:55.020 of really starting

00:30:55.960 to maybe put

00:30:56.580 those things together

00:30:57.440 bothered me

00:30:58.580 but what bothered me

00:30:59.660 at that moment

00:31:00.640 was knowing

00:31:01.200 I was bothered by it

00:31:02.740 I realized

00:31:03.560 that's who I had become

00:31:04.800 and that's the game

00:31:06.260 I was playing

00:31:06.880 and I'm not really

00:31:07.500 much of a game player

00:31:08.640 as you can probably tell

00:31:10.260 so I said

00:31:10.880 yeah I think

00:31:11.660 I'm going to exit

00:31:12.260 this game

00:31:12.900 now I know

00:31:13.540 that means

00:31:13.880 I've got to let go

00:31:14.760 of what I've been doing

00:31:15.880 for 25 years

00:31:16.980 at a high level

00:31:18.020 in this town

00:31:19.320 and I don't know

00:31:20.160 what I'm going to be able

00:31:21.600 to grab onto

00:31:22.280 when I let go

00:31:23.020 of this one

00:31:23.500 I'm in free fall

00:31:24.680 for a while

00:31:25.300 but hey

00:31:26.460 you got it

00:31:28.680 so make something

00:31:30.740 be there

00:31:31.600 that I can grab onto

00:31:32.560 and he certainly did

00:31:34.260 so that's really

00:31:35.240 how it played out

00:31:36.060 I was bothered by it

00:31:37.440 it was bothering

00:31:38.200 my conscience

00:31:38.980 and my spirit

00:31:40.000 was upset by it

00:31:41.020 and you know

00:31:41.760 if you can't

00:31:42.240 sleep well at night

00:31:43.580 because you know

00:31:44.260 you're being a hypocrite

00:31:45.360 you better fix that

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00:32:54.260 yeah well

00:32:57.560 you see

00:32:58.200 that's a very

00:32:59.300 interesting observation

00:33:00.460 because

00:33:00.960 I've just written

00:33:02.320 a new book

00:33:02.940 called

00:33:03.300 We Who Wrestle

00:33:03.980 with God

00:33:04.580 and it comes out

00:33:05.420 November 12th

00:33:07.420 and

00:33:08.040 it's a

00:33:09.600 journey

00:33:10.860 through the

00:33:11.560 characterizations

00:33:12.540 of God

00:33:13.360 in 10

00:33:14.620 Old Testament

00:33:15.520 stories

00:33:16.180 about 10

00:33:17.160 there's

00:33:17.840 some forays

00:33:19.220 into New Testament

00:33:20.100 material

00:33:20.620 but I'm saving

00:33:21.560 most of that

00:33:22.160 for another book

00:33:23.000 and

00:33:23.940 God is

00:33:25.480 characterized

00:33:25.980 in these stories

00:33:27.760 at least in part

00:33:29.140 in two ways

00:33:30.240 and

00:33:30.640 one is

00:33:32.260 as the spirit

00:33:33.660 of what calls

00:33:34.620 to you

00:33:35.100 so grabs your interest

00:33:36.760 compels you forward

00:33:38.040 it fills you

00:33:39.240 with enthusiasm

00:33:40.000 makes you want

00:33:41.480 to move

00:33:41.820 towards a goal

00:33:42.680 makes you want

00:33:43.360 to hit the target

00:33:44.200 properly

00:33:44.840 and the other

00:33:46.160 another characterization

00:33:47.680 is the constraints

00:33:49.160 of conscience

00:33:50.040 you know

00:33:50.900 and I think

00:33:51.660 about this

00:33:52.300 biologically

00:33:53.300 and instinctively

00:33:54.320 too

00:33:54.680 because I think

00:33:55.900 the thing

00:33:56.320 that those things

00:33:57.380 dovetail

00:33:58.100 it looks to me

00:34:00.160 like conscience

00:34:01.060 the voice of conscience

00:34:02.400 is something

00:34:03.240 like the voice

00:34:04.180 of the longest

00:34:05.060 possible term

00:34:06.420 game

00:34:07.000 so you could imagine

00:34:08.800 that in your situation

00:34:09.920 there's two forces

00:34:10.940 that are

00:34:11.620 striving inside

00:34:13.680 of you

00:34:14.080 and one is

00:34:14.780 the forces

00:34:15.720 that say

00:34:16.540 maintain your

00:34:17.620 relationship

00:34:18.220 with what's

00:34:19.560 essentially

00:34:20.160 high level

00:34:22.280 commercial success

00:34:23.560 that comes

00:34:24.780 at the price

00:34:25.440 of pleasing

00:34:26.400 the marketplace

00:34:27.340 and also

00:34:28.220 not displeasing

00:34:29.560 the people

00:34:30.100 who control

00:34:30.700 your access

00:34:31.300 to that

00:34:31.900 and that's

00:34:33.120 not nothing

00:34:33.880 as you pointed out

00:34:34.880 but then your

00:34:35.460 conscience comes up

00:34:36.680 and it's saying

00:34:37.340 something like

00:34:37.960 yeah but

00:34:38.940 you might be

00:34:39.920 giving up

00:34:40.380 something more

00:34:40.980 important here

00:34:41.800 and you don't

00:34:42.780 want to do that

00:34:43.460 because that's

00:34:44.600 a bad

00:34:45.560 long term

00:34:46.200 game

00:34:46.660 bad for you

00:34:47.620 bad for your

00:34:48.360 kids

00:34:48.760 bad for society

00:34:49.980 it's a bad

00:34:50.480 social game

00:34:51.140 too

00:34:51.360 and if you

00:34:52.120 play the

00:34:52.620 longer term

00:34:53.260 game

00:34:53.580 you might

00:34:53.960 pay a

00:34:54.380 short term

00:34:54.900 price

00:34:55.440 right

00:34:56.260 that's the

00:34:56.720 price

00:34:57.060 you pay

00:34:57.540 for speaking

00:34:59.100 your mind

00:34:59.660 when there's

00:35:00.120 a certain

00:35:00.440 amount of

00:35:01.040 pressure

00:35:02.300 against doing

00:35:03.120 so

00:35:03.480 but it's

00:35:04.500 an unbeatable

00:35:06.380 long term

00:35:07.120 game

00:35:07.540 in my estimation

00:35:08.480 if your

00:35:08.920 conscience

00:35:09.280 is clean

00:35:09.980 now you

00:35:10.780 said something

00:35:11.360 interesting

00:35:11.920 though too

00:35:12.460 from the

00:35:13.440 practical

00:35:13.860 perspective

00:35:14.540 two things

00:35:15.840 you said

00:35:16.980 that you

00:35:17.680 let go

00:35:18.140 of the

00:35:18.440 sure thing

00:35:19.160 although you

00:35:20.960 were paying

00:35:21.340 a price

00:35:21.740 for that

00:35:22.100 but what

00:35:22.620 you gained

00:35:23.300 in consequence

00:35:24.380 were two

00:35:25.080 things

00:35:25.460 you gained

00:35:26.140 an increase

00:35:29.020 in creative

00:35:30.020 freedom

00:35:30.480 that was

00:35:32.940 at least

00:35:33.360 in part

00:35:33.820 unexpected

00:35:34.580 right

00:35:35.100 that you

00:35:35.560 could now

00:35:36.060 make forays

00:35:37.220 into various

00:35:38.000 in various

00:35:39.840 directions

00:35:40.340 that you

00:35:40.920 had hesitated

00:35:41.760 to tread

00:35:42.280 on before

00:35:42.840 I was kind

00:35:43.620 of wondering

00:35:43.960 about how

00:35:44.460 that might

00:35:45.380 have made

00:35:45.620 itself

00:35:45.980 manifest

00:35:46.420 musically

00:35:47.120 you know

00:35:47.440 because you

00:35:47.860 can imagine

00:35:48.300 that you

00:35:48.640 might have

00:35:48.860 been restricting

00:35:49.460 yourself with

00:35:50.200 regard to the

00:35:50.920 content of the

00:35:51.600 lyrics but you

00:35:52.780 might have also

00:35:53.280 been restricting

00:35:53.960 yourself with

00:35:54.720 regard to the

00:35:55.600 plethora of

00:35:56.920 musical forms that

00:35:58.020 you might introduce

00:35:58.740 into your music

00:35:59.580 one of the things

00:36:00.700 that strikes me

00:36:01.340 about your music

00:36:02.000 is that you

00:36:03.060 know you

00:36:03.380 you cover a

00:36:04.360 very wide range

00:36:05.240 of genres

00:36:05.780 so I'm curious

00:36:07.060 about whether

00:36:07.640 your

00:36:08.660 willingness to

00:36:10.420 detach yourself

00:36:11.380 from the dictates

00:36:12.440 of the politicized

00:36:13.380 marketplace

00:36:13.900 increased your

00:36:15.340 musical creativity

00:36:16.480 as well as your

00:36:17.360 lyrical creativity

00:36:18.460 and then

00:36:19.440 what was there

00:36:20.520 was one other

00:36:21.060 thing oh yes

00:36:21.780 the other thing

00:36:22.380 you said was

00:36:23.080 that the other

00:36:24.540 advantage was

00:36:25.540 that you

00:36:26.180 established a

00:36:27.220 more genuine

00:36:27.940 connection with

00:36:29.400 your audience

00:36:30.120 and so let's

00:36:32.020 take those apart

00:36:32.820 step by step

00:36:34.540 so the first

00:36:35.140 thing is

00:36:35.640 when you freed

00:36:37.120 yourself and you

00:36:37.960 stop being in

00:36:39.100 your own words a

00:36:39.840 hypocrite what

00:36:41.220 happened to you

00:36:42.040 on the musically

00:36:43.280 creative side as

00:36:44.280 well as the

00:36:44.800 lyrically creative

00:36:45.840 side and then

00:36:46.540 let's talk about

00:36:47.400 why the effect

00:36:49.360 that had on your

00:36:50.200 audience and why

00:36:50.940 you think that

00:36:51.580 happened do you

00:36:52.520 know what a

00:36:52.840 Tennessee walking

00:36:53.620 horse is no

00:36:56.300 what's a Tennessee

00:36:57.220 walking horse go

00:36:58.220 look that up after

00:36:59.280 we get through

00:36:59.680 talking so a

00:37:00.240 Tennessee walking

00:37:00.900 horse is a big

00:37:02.360 powerful black

00:37:03.760 horse and they

00:37:05.540 start these horses

00:37:06.420 off when they're

00:37:07.280 cults and they

00:37:08.220 put these really

00:37:09.080 heavy weights on

00:37:10.560 their front two

00:37:12.140 feet and they

00:37:13.340 make those horses

00:37:14.040 walk with those

00:37:14.840 for years and

00:37:15.600 years and years

00:37:16.180 and years even

00:37:16.720 when they're

00:37:17.060 adults but when

00:37:18.340 they want the

00:37:18.900 Tennessee walking

00:37:19.660 horse to do what

00:37:20.640 the Tennessee

00:37:21.080 walking horse is

00:37:21.940 known for they

00:37:23.020 take the weights

00:37:23.880 off the feet of

00:37:24.980 the horse and

00:37:25.960 they get up and

00:37:26.660 they spruce the

00:37:27.300 horse up and the

00:37:28.240 Tennessee walking

00:37:28.940 horse walks like

00:37:29.760 this and their

00:37:30.900 front feet are just

00:37:31.840 going up and

00:37:32.600 down and it's

00:37:33.220 one of the most

00:37:33.800 impressive things

00:37:34.560 you've ever seen

00:37:35.240 and it's because

00:37:36.300 they finally took

00:37:37.040 the shackles off

00:37:38.720 that horse and

00:37:39.340 that horse is

00:37:39.840 like look at me

00:37:40.680 now and the rest

00:37:41.700 of the time the

00:37:42.240 horse is like man

00:37:42.960 I wish somebody

00:37:43.460 would get this

00:37:43.900 weight off my

00:37:44.700 feet I can't I'm

00:37:45.860 not doing what

00:37:46.800 I'm capable of

00:37:47.580 doing please get

00:37:48.360 these off and

00:37:49.240 then they do I

00:37:50.080 think it's possibly

00:37:51.300 somewhat cruel

00:37:52.080 honestly to do

00:37:52.880 that to those

00:37:53.880 horses but the

00:37:55.020 same thing would

00:37:55.560 be how I felt is

00:37:56.660 that yeah I could

00:37:57.520 still just like the

00:37:58.600 horse I could

00:37:59.160 still walk I could

00:38:00.060 still run you're

00:38:00.920 just weighed down

00:38:01.800 with it and so the

00:38:03.580 second you break

00:38:04.300 away from that and

00:38:05.280 that the chains and

00:38:06.100 the shackles are

00:38:06.780 broken now you're

00:38:07.780 free you almost

00:38:08.360 don't know what

00:38:08.860 to do with it for

00:38:09.940 a little while

00:38:10.460 because you're not

00:38:11.040 used to being able

00:38:11.880 to do what you

00:38:13.200 want to do and say

00:38:14.020 what you want to

00:38:14.540 say without somebody

00:38:16.120 trying to restrain

00:38:17.120 you and so what

00:38:18.840 that does on the

00:38:19.560 creative side and

00:38:20.500 being a musician you

00:38:21.440 know this can you

00:38:22.140 imagine what that

00:38:23.100 does I mean once

00:38:24.200 you finally figure

00:38:24.920 out I can I can

00:38:26.420 write a song like

00:38:27.200 revelation if I

00:38:28.980 want to like if

00:38:30.180 that's something that

00:38:30.880 hits me hard I can

00:38:31.820 write that and I

00:38:32.520 can actually put that

00:38:33.300 out yes you can

00:38:34.320 actually do that and

00:38:35.700 so you know you

00:38:37.740 got to know this

00:38:38.700 that when you go

00:38:40.440 look at Jesus

00:38:41.060 Christ and what he

00:38:41.980 talked about he

00:38:43.000 talked a lot about

00:38:43.780 freedom he talked a

00:38:45.540 lot about it he

00:38:46.480 talked about the

00:38:47.060 truth he talked

00:38:47.800 about freedom and

00:38:50.360 he says the truth

00:38:51.120 will set you free

00:38:52.140 I mean what a

00:38:53.440 statement that is

00:38:54.260 the truth will set

00:38:55.360 you free so if you

00:38:56.620 look at my

00:38:57.120 situation was I

00:38:59.020 living truthfully at

00:39:00.100 that point when I

00:39:01.040 was when I was

00:39:01.660 shackled down no I

00:39:02.720 wasn't because I

00:39:03.320 was playing a game I

00:39:04.220 was I was living a

00:39:05.400 hypocritical existence

00:39:06.520 at that point that's

00:39:07.560 not truthful so the

00:39:09.400 second I was able to

00:39:10.260 be totally truthful and

00:39:11.600 come on with it exactly

00:39:12.700 how I wanted to do it

00:39:13.780 which was that's the

00:39:14.720 truth here comes the

00:39:16.400 freedom part they

00:39:17.300 coexist the truth and

00:39:18.780 the freedom the truth

00:39:19.580 will set you free and

00:39:21.020 so that's where I find

00:39:21.900 myself currently is

00:39:23.580 that we're speaking the

00:39:24.980 truth and I've never

00:39:25.840 been more free in my

00:39:26.840 life now it doesn't

00:39:27.640 mean it's it's easy and

00:39:28.960 that everybody likes it

00:39:30.040 it doesn't say that at

00:39:30.960 all but it does say

00:39:32.460 those two things

00:39:33.400 absolutely coexist so

00:39:35.180 what you're seeing in

00:39:36.420 this song revelation and

00:39:38.020 what's happening with

00:39:38.820 that song right now is a

00:39:40.180 is a result of the

00:39:41.860 truth will set you

00:39:42.540 free right right okay

00:39:44.400 so that well that makes

00:39:45.500 sense to me it also

00:39:46.600 psychologically it makes

00:39:47.840 sense to me too because

00:39:48.960 you know you describe the

00:39:52.060 appearance of that song

00:39:53.800 sort of as a unit and

00:39:55.540 also as a surprise and

00:39:58.400 because thought and

00:40:00.340 imagination serves aim I

00:40:02.940 was very curious about

00:40:04.080 what must have or might

00:40:05.840 have transformed in your

00:40:07.140 aim to make that sort of

00:40:08.340 thing possible the song

00:40:09.840 is reminiscent to me of

00:40:11.860 two other songs that I

00:40:13.200 really like it's

00:40:14.600 reminiscent of a song

00:40:15.800 democracy by Leonard

00:40:18.160 Cohn which is a very

00:40:19.620 revelatory song I mean

00:40:21.080 Leonard Cohn had a lot of

00:40:22.260 revelatory songs but

00:40:23.320 that's definitely one of

00:40:24.200 them and Johnny Cash

00:40:26.420 recorded a great song

00:40:27.640 when the man comes

00:40:28.780 around which is that's a

00:40:30.440 deadly song I don't know

00:40:31.680 where the hell that came

00:40:32.540 from I mean that's a

00:40:34.020 I mean that's that's a

00:40:35.280 killer Johnny Cash

00:40:36.200 wouldn't playing around

00:40:36.980 with that one no that's

00:40:39.840 for sure yeah that's for

00:40:41.860 sure that's a definitely

00:40:43.000 a hair stands up on the

00:40:44.500 back of your neck song and

00:40:46.740 that's that's actually a by

00:40:48.600 the way that feeling of

00:40:49.820 having your hair stand up

00:40:51.160 on the back of your neck

00:40:52.040 that's piloerection so the

00:40:55.400 reason that happens at

00:40:56.640 least biologically the

00:40:57.800 reason that happens is for

00:40:59.140 the same reason that a

00:41:00.160 cat puffs up when it

00:41:01.300 sees a big dog right it's

00:41:03.620 a it's a it's an

00:41:05.100 instinctual reaction to

00:41:06.360 something that inspires

00:41:07.600 awe and so and people

00:41:10.540 who are high in openness

00:41:11.660 which is a dimension of

00:41:12.880 creativity are much more

00:41:14.520 likely to experience that

00:41:16.400 particular phenomena and

00:41:18.380 it is a phenomena that

00:41:19.660 emerges when people are in

00:41:21.180 the presence of something

00:41:23.100 that inspires awe so

00:41:25.140 that's very that's very

00:41:26.360 cool that's another place

00:41:27.620 where the biology and the

00:41:28.900 divinity seem to unite

00:41:30.260 okay now all right so

00:41:32.140 we got we got that

00:41:33.360 established so you

00:41:34.700 changed what you were

00:41:36.340 aiming at now you said

00:41:38.720 that that's put you in

00:41:40.280 touch with your audience

00:41:41.500 in a different way and

00:41:43.460 also in a way where where

00:41:46.180 a lot has come to you in

00:41:48.080 consequence right it's been

00:41:49.160 a positive thing so walk

00:41:51.120 me through that what's

00:41:52.220 changed what's changed in

00:41:54.720 how you treat your

00:41:55.660 audience what's changed

00:41:57.340 and how your audience

00:41:58.240 treats you what's that

00:42:00.060 meant commercially on tour

00:42:01.720 what's that meant in

00:42:02.720 terms of how you're

00:42:04.700 promoting and presenting

00:42:06.520 your music in the new

00:42:08.260 media landscape well I

00:42:11.080 think we all realize now

00:42:12.540 regardless of your

00:42:13.780 politics or anything else

00:42:15.700 that we are being lied to

00:42:18.880 have been lied to and

00:42:21.320 will continue to be lied to

00:42:22.900 this entire time your

00:42:24.920 entire life you've been

00:42:26.420 swimming in a sea of

00:42:28.740 either lies or contorted

00:42:30.840 versions of the truth and

00:42:32.280 people know that now they

00:42:33.920 really have woken up to

00:42:35.360 this I think I think when

00:42:36.820 COVID rolled through and we

00:42:38.720 saw and busted them on a

00:42:40.620 lot of their lives people

00:42:41.560 just were in shock that

00:42:43.300 these these people actually

00:42:44.580 would lie to us like that

00:42:45.680 and they all realize that

00:42:46.860 now so to answer your

00:42:49.520 question they know I'm not

00:42:51.260 lying to them and they

00:42:52.700 know when they hear that

00:42:54.260 song for instance

00:42:55.020 revelation you don't

00:42:56.320 write that song as a as an

00:42:59.980 angle as a lie as an

00:43:02.480 angle as a maneuver as a

00:43:04.240 way to have a hit I mean

00:43:05.600 really I mean who would do

00:43:07.000 that it makes no sense to

00:43:08.280 even do that so they know

00:43:09.920 that what I'm telling them

00:43:11.500 in my music and also what I

00:43:13.240 what I talk about in

00:43:14.320 interviews like this one

00:43:15.440 we're doing right now they

00:43:17.660 know I have absolutely

00:43:18.700 nothing to gain from saying

00:43:20.800 those things nothing nothing

00:43:23.120 this world is gonna is gonna

00:43:24.600 bestow upon me thank you

00:43:26.680 John for singing about

00:43:27.880 revelation thank you John

00:43:29.680 for talking about spiritual

00:43:31.980 warfare thank you for doing

00:43:33.600 all this that's never gonna

00:43:34.740 happen it's quite the

00:43:35.680 opposite of that so I think

00:43:37.280 my audience has has grown

00:43:39.960 because they know I'm not

00:43:42.240 lying to them they know that

00:43:43.620 if I say it I mean it it's an

00:43:45.440 authentic position and I

00:43:47.080 I won't back up off of it

00:43:48.320 because they see me get

00:43:49.180 banged up pretty good you go

00:43:50.720 on social media and read the

00:43:51.800 comments it's it's pretty

00:43:53.100 nasty as I'm sure it is for

00:43:54.340 you sometimes but you keep

00:43:56.080 coming and and the bigger

00:43:57.920 point of that is when you do

00:44:02.260 what the Lord tells you to do

00:44:05.680 and it is a difficult thing to

00:44:08.120 do but you do it anyway he's

00:44:11.560 told us time and time again in

00:44:13.100 the word if you'll do what I

00:44:14.540 tell you to do go where I tell

00:44:16.140 you to go and be what I told

00:44:17.580 you to be if you'll do those

00:44:19.380 things the world's gonna hate

00:44:21.420 you a lot of them are gonna

00:44:22.260 hate you but I'm gonna reward

00:44:24.380 you and you'll get your reward

00:44:26.020 whenever you get it but trust

00:44:27.480 me it's coming so there's your

00:44:29.720 marching orders now that's that's

00:44:31.580 a tough set of rules because that

00:44:33.100 is an uncomfortable position just

00:44:34.620 as a human being to step into

00:44:37.020 those things but my position is I

00:44:40.280 fear him a lot more than I fear

00:44:42.300 them you know there's a scripture

00:44:44.660 that says do not fear the one who

00:44:47.140 can only kill your body fear the

00:44:49.680 one who can kill your body and

00:44:51.980 kill your soul fear him fear the

00:44:54.500 creator feel the fear the alpha the

00:44:56.380 omega fear him and that is who I

00:44:59.220 fear and so even though it's an

00:45:01.480 uncomfortable thing sometimes or a

00:45:03.280 nerve-wracking thing to come with

00:45:04.680 something like revelation and then

00:45:06.020 do an interview like this where we're

00:45:07.220 talking about it it's a lot less

00:45:10.020 scary to do that than than not doing

00:45:11.960 what he told me to do right right

00:45:15.200 well that's interesting that's very

00:45:16.840 interesting you know people often

00:45:19.580 compliment me on my bravery let's say

00:45:23.700 hey and that doesn't sit very well with

00:45:27.120 me fundamentally because that's not

00:45:29.220 actually accurate it's I'm just afraid

00:45:32.140 of different things so for example

00:45:35.440 like I I spent a lot of time studying

00:45:37.380 totalitarianism like a lot of time I

00:45:40.380 spent half my life likely for 40 years

00:45:44.580 studying the psychology of

00:45:47.560 totalitarianism and what that meant for

00:45:50.100 me was by the psychology of

00:45:52.980 totalitarianism I was very interested in

00:45:55.260 what it was like to participate in a

00:45:59.640 totalitarian state to let that take you

00:46:01.720 over and totalitarian states take you

00:46:06.200 over by requiring your submission to the

00:46:10.540 lie like we like to think of a

00:46:12.720 totalitarian state as a state where an

00:46:15.640 evil charismatic leader like Stalin or

00:46:19.200 Hitler or Mao takes over the state and

00:46:22.500 forces otherwise freedom-loving people to

00:46:25.300 bend the knee and and shut their mouths

00:46:28.600 but that's not how it works what happens

00:46:31.580 is that a society starts to become

00:46:33.640 possessed by lies and then everyone

00:46:36.080 starts to lie and eventually everyone

00:46:38.640 lies about absolutely everything they're

00:46:41.120 saying and doing to everyone including

00:46:43.880 themselves and everyone they love 100% of

00:46:47.760 the time and that's hell when a woman

00:46:52.940 experiences an unplanned pregnancy she

00:46:55.200 often feels alone and afraid too often her

00:46:58.120 first response is to seek out an abortion

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00:48:04.740 and if you know that then you're way more

00:48:11.940 afraid of that than of anything else

00:48:13.680 because there isn't anything worse than

00:48:15.680 that including death and there's plenty of

00:48:19.060 death that accompanies it too and so part

00:48:21.580 of being willing to abide by the truth

00:48:25.600 let's say is getting your fears in order I

00:48:29.500 kind of think that's what Christ means in

00:48:32.300 the Gospels when he says get thee behind

00:48:35.120 me Satan it's something like you want to

00:48:38.500 have your fear it's more than this but it's

00:48:41.180 something like you want to have your fear

00:48:43.100 behind you pushing you forward in the right

00:48:46.560 direction rather than your fear in front of

00:48:48.960 you stopping you and making you cowardly

00:48:51.800 it doesn't mean you get rid of the fear

00:48:53.980 but it's put in the right place now I'm

00:48:56.120 curious about something here that's quite

00:48:59.080 personal like you made a comment earlier

00:49:01.720 about yielding and then obviously you're

00:49:05.680 motivated by religious considerations and so

00:49:09.200 and then you talked more specifically in our

00:49:13.080 last about our last exchange about the truth

00:49:17.540 setting you free and also you being afraid of

00:49:21.200 the judge of your soul let's say more afraid

00:49:24.000 of that than afraid of public opinion or loss of

00:49:27.880 financial stability or opportunity how did you

00:49:32.500 come to these conclusions and when well when I

00:49:36.280 was a kid my dad has been my dad's been

00:49:41.560 preaching since he was about 19 he's now in his

00:49:44.160 early 70s preaches in a lot of prisons my dad did

00:49:49.320 a lot of street preaching now you want to talk

00:49:51.320 about a you want to talk about a challenge my dad

00:49:54.140 hit about 34 Mardi Gras in a row standing on the

00:49:59.580 French Quarter as the parades are coming by got a

00:50:02.460 guitar around his neck a little speaker standing

00:50:04.860 next to him and he's singing and he's preaching and

00:50:08.380 the ridicule coming back at him was like a tidal wave and

00:50:11.840 I've asked him why did you keep standing there letting

00:50:15.060 them do that to you and he said because about one out

00:50:18.140 of a hundred of them would stop and ask me what I was

00:50:20.860 talking about and then I had a chance to witness to that

00:50:23.460 person on the street and he goes the reason I'm not in

00:50:26.560 some big church somewhere is because the people that

00:50:29.120 really need to hear it are never going to walk into one of

00:50:31.060 those church buildings they're out there in the world

00:50:33.220 they're stuck behind bars they're at they're at Mardi Gras

00:50:36.160 they're at wherever they are so his calling was to go to

00:50:39.440 where they are go out there in the middle of it and do it

00:50:41.780 you talk about a courageous I mean that's something else

00:50:45.480 and so I come from that you got to understand that if you

00:50:50.840 look at Jesus Christ himself he went to where the people

00:50:53.660 were he had a real problem with the Pharisees and the

00:50:56.780 Sadducees the religious elite of his day he had a real

00:50:59.880 problem with them and they had obviously had a real problem

00:51:02.820 with him too and so he would speak the truth and he was he

00:51:07.080 was performing miracles he was drawing big crowds and man it

00:51:10.100 was driving them crazy because what are we going to do with

00:51:12.640 this Jesus guy you know and so if you follow the example of what

00:51:17.060 he said we are supposed to speak the truth and go out boldly

00:51:21.020 and speak it knowing that they're not going to like it matter of

00:51:25.260 fact he said if if if they persecute me what do you think

00:51:28.500 they're going to do to you and he says rejoice when you're

00:51:31.440 persecuted for bearing my name not have a grin on your face or clap

00:51:35.320 your hands rejoice like be exuberant when you are persecuted for bearing

00:51:40.460 my name Jesus Christ saying this I mean that's quite a thing to ask

00:51:45.840 people to do that run that runs counter to the entire human condition

00:51:50.020 but that's the point that's the point you can't do those things on your own

00:51:55.060 doctor you can't I can't do it my dad can't do it Billy Graham couldn't do it

00:51:59.980 anybody you want to name it's humanly impossible on your own speed to do those

00:52:05.640 things but when you accept Jesus and you really do and I use the word yield on

00:52:10.460 purpose with you to it knowing knowing that Jesus existed no knowing all those

00:52:17.060 things well the devil knows those things the devil's been battling him for

00:52:20.920 millennia you know you think he's going to heaven I don't think so knowing it is

00:52:26.180 one thing but yielding your will turning yourself over turning over all authority

00:52:31.660 to him as it refers to it in the New Testament is basically being a bond

00:52:35.960 servant to him like you you become his property at that point where your will no

00:52:41.680 longer matters what what your aspirations are do not matter if you get to that

00:52:47.360 point that's what that's what an actual saved person is okay well I got some more

00:52:52.420 questions about that so you said that one of the influences on you was your

00:52:56.960 father and so I presume that you respected and admired your father and so

00:53:02.180 we could talk about that because that's an important detail but then I'm also

00:53:06.220 curious about two other things like how do you distinguish between doing your will

00:53:12.800 let's say and pursuing the path of truth how do you distinguish between those two you

00:53:19.380 know I think it was Saint Paul who said that we have to test the spirits to see

00:53:23.020 if they're of God right and it's I suppose you might say that there's a

00:53:27.580 certain proportion of religious hypocrites who truly believe perhaps truly believe

00:53:32.300 who certainly have told themselves and tell other people that they're walking the

00:53:37.780 straight and narrow path even though they're not you know their deception can reach

00:53:44.080 very deeply into people's hearts and so I'm curious what it means to you okay why

00:53:50.920 exactly you admired what your father was doing and what other sources of revelation led you

00:53:59.380 to the religious realizations that you had I'm curious about how you know the

00:54:05.560 difference between your will and what should be done right what's the prayer to do the

00:54:12.040 father's will on earth as it is in heaven that's different than pursuing your own

00:54:16.240 short-term interests but that doesn't mean I mean you can be deluded about that

00:54:20.940 so how do you know how do you test your own motivation to determine whether what

00:54:27.220 you're doing is truthful or just another snare of deception let's say I think I think

00:54:32.120 one place with respect that I think you you are wrong on this subject and that you

00:54:36.880 miss it is that you think human beings have the capability to divine between decide between

00:54:44.280 left right truth lie all these things that are going on and we're just not capable of

00:54:49.800 it I mean we are I'll put it to you this way the I am not looking at the real Jordan

00:54:56.020 Peterson I'm looking at what Jordan Peterson lives in for a while you're not looking at John

00:55:01.320 Rich I just live in this thing for a while the real Jordan Peterson lives forever he's

00:55:06.960 an eternal being he was created by the creator and he was put in that body that you're in

00:55:12.320 right now to last as long as it's going to last and then that body is going to die and

00:55:16.480 then the real Jordan is released from that body same way it goes for me so the only way

00:55:21.600 a human being can discern what is true and what is a lie is you better have Jesus inside

00:55:27.300 of you because he's the ultimate truth so when things come at you that are lies which

00:55:31.680 is every single day including lies you might tell yourself or make yourself think something

00:55:35.840 that's not true have a notion about something and it seems really strong you ask him is that

00:55:41.460 true like am I thinking about this right and you pray about it and you go if this is wrong

00:55:45.820 man don't let me do that you know put me in the right spot even though it seems totally

00:55:50.060 obvious that I should do this in my own eyes and he will but the only way that works is

00:55:55.960 if you have yielded to him turned over the entire control to him become a bond

00:56:00.640 servant to him he's the ultimate truth if a lie comes into contact with the ultimate

00:56:05.620 truth which one is more powerful at that point is the truth more powerful than the

00:56:09.960 lie of course it is it's the ultimate power is the real truth so if you've got

00:56:15.120 the real truth living in you which is not something you have on your own we're

00:56:18.740 inherently evil doctor we are born into sin sin is anything that is less than

00:56:24.720 perfection you don't have to be a murderer to be a sinner you don't have to be

00:56:28.940 something terrible to be a sinner anything less than absolute perfection in

00:56:33.760 the eyes of the Lord is sin so we are sin we are in a continual state of it and you

00:56:40.200 can't escape it but the only way you're able to navigate through that and and go

00:56:44.840 to heaven when you die is that you brought the son of God you've asked him to

00:56:47.940 come in and turned over your will to him and so when when this body that I have to

00:56:52.760 live in here for a while finally kicks the bucket and I'm out of here and I take

00:56:56.600 off and I stand before the ultimate judge before the father the son the Holy

00:57:02.080 Spirit you're standing there looking at him they're not looking at nasty old John

00:57:06.840 Rich in his sinful form he sees his son he sees his own son there because you you

00:57:13.140 invited him in you gave your will over to him and that's who he sees well you

00:57:17.460 think he's gonna let his son into heaven well of course because you belong to him

00:57:21.520 that's what it means to be a child of him he's gonna let his kids come on in

00:57:25.580 perfection is not even anything you can shoot at matter of fact understanding

00:57:29.940 that that you live in a constant state of imperfection that's the point and for

00:57:35.940 human beings and psychologists and anybody else to go well there's a moral

00:57:39.760 compass blah blah nonsense humans don't have the capability in my opinion on

00:57:45.320 their own to be moral we are inherently immoral we were put in these situations

00:57:51.100 to as a test even if you live to be 200 years old it's just like that he takes

00:57:56.820 something that is eternal which is your spirit and my spirit he takes an eternal

00:58:01.440 situation places in a very very temporary badly made very flawed human body and

00:58:09.260 then the whole entire world is turned loose on us we can make any decision we want

00:58:13.460 to make and the toughest one we have to make is to give up our own control over

00:58:18.780 to the one that created us in the first place okay okay so that that's the

00:58:22.340 question that's the that's the place I'd like to drill down into two things so one

00:58:28.580 more practical which is when you were deciding to move away from the studio and

00:58:35.180 record label life how did you come to the determination you you mentioned prayer but

00:58:43.000 how did you come to determine to determine that that was the appropriate path that

00:58:47.440 it wasn't just another form of ego game let's say I know I know you said it said

00:58:52.180 part of it well why would anyone do that there's a big risk in it and obviously you

00:58:56.080 were so there's an obvious sacrificial component to that which speaks of its

00:59:00.080 truth but I'm really interested in the details and then the other the other issue

00:59:05.000 issue that I'm that I'm curious about is when you talk about prayer and you're using your prayer to

00:59:14.180 discern the truth let's say what is it that you're praying for that enables you to to benefit from that

00:59:22.860 discernment what a great question so the Holy Spirit it says in the Bible that he will send to his

00:59:30.280 children hit the real ones the ones that have turned it over to him that he will send the

00:59:35.260 Holy Spirit to help you and guide you and navigate for you you have to ask for that you

00:59:41.880 have to say you know you pray and say please send the Holy Spirit to me because I can't figure this out

00:59:47.420 I'm having trouble I don't know what to do what am I supposed to do right now you ask for that

00:59:52.320 and he will send it and then in your in your being you feel if something is if I'm making a wrong move

01:00:00.300 make am I supposed to go left right straight or not move at all or a step back which one am I

01:00:05.060 supposed to do it will become very clear to you it's called discernment we're told we're commanded

01:00:09.940 multiple times if you read Proverbs you read what King David wrote discernment was everything I mean

01:00:15.760 that's like King Solomon asked for that King Solomon asked for wisdom and discernment he wanted to be

01:00:22.160 able to discern because it's the hardest thing for a human being to do how do I know how do I know

01:00:26.480 what I'm supposed to do and if you're only relying on your own physical self to figure that out you're

01:00:31.160 never going to get it right ever you're never going to get it right and so the Holy Spirit that that's

01:00:36.540 who comes in and he that is the discernment that you're asking for now he may not tell you the second

01:00:41.940 you ask for it but if you ask for it and you're serious about it and you that's what you really want

01:00:46.900 he'll send it to you and you'll get it and so I think to your conversation about the music industry

01:00:52.800 and all that stuff I could feel it I could feel he was telling me it's time for you to get out of here

01:00:58.780 bud time to go time to go and he was things like my kids reacting to things my wife reacting to things

01:01:06.960 me personally reacting to things that was his way of going ding ding ding ding ding pay attention John

01:01:12.960 time for you to move I know you've been doing this your whole life I know this was your American

01:01:17.140 dream I know this is what you think you were built to do and maybe you were for a period of time I got

01:01:22.040 something else for you to do and it's gonna hurt a little bit but rip and pull you pull you away from

01:01:27.720 it and then put you on the path he wants it's like do you know what repentance is I'll give you a great

01:01:32.460 analogy for for repentance repentance is let's say I'm driving down the road and I look over there on the

01:01:40.500 side of the highway and there's Jesus Christ standing there on the side of the highway and he needs a ride

01:01:44.900 and I go that's Jesus standing on the side of the highway so you pull over and you roll down the wind

01:01:51.080 and you go hey Jesus come on in you need a ride and instead of him getting in on the pastor's side he

01:01:56.020 walks around to your window knocks on the window and says scoot over and so you do and he takes the

01:02:02.120 steering wheel and does a u-turn and now he's driving the car and he takes you wherever he wants to

01:02:07.420 take you that's what repentance actually is it's like what's the difference between belief and faith

01:02:12.700 you know you're sitting in a chair right now I'm sitting in a chair right now the only reason we're

01:02:18.300 sitting in these chairs is because first of all we walked up to the chairs and we looked at them

01:02:22.120 and we believed those chairs would hold us up look like a pretty good chair pretty strong chair I

01:02:27.620 believe that chair will hold me up but until we sat down in the chairs that we're sitting in right now

01:02:32.740 we didn't have faith that the chair would hold us up that's the difference a lot of people in the

01:02:37.600 world believe in Jesus they believe he's real they but they believe he existed they believe

01:02:42.340 they read the bible and they go okay yeah I mean I believe that but so does the devil so does every

01:02:47.880 demon that ever existed every they all believe in Jesus do they have faith in Jesus now that's a

01:02:54.720 totally different question do they lean on him do they rest on him do they give their give

01:03:00.860 their own security up I gave my security up for this chair I'm sitting in right now you got to

01:03:05.760 give your security up all the way around to him and you'll never get it right it is a constant struggle

01:03:11.300 because you are you always want to grab the reins and pull it back that's just your your nature so it's

01:03:16.560 a constant exercise of letting you you're going to grab and go ah okay I'll let it go again it's a

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01:04:41.880 how much of your decision to leave the say traditional commercial confines of the music

01:04:53.600 industry behind how much of that dovetailed with the development of your faith I mean did those

01:05:00.540 occur at the same time or what what's the or is it a constant sort of unfolding what's the sequence

01:05:07.380 there because I'm still curious about why you decided to you made a very important distinction

01:05:13.940 there it says in the gospels Christ says to his followers that not everyone who says lord lord will

01:05:19.500 enter the kingdom of heaven and what he means by that at least in part is the mere proclamation of a

01:05:26.280 conscious belief is not sufficient to to ensure redemption or salvation it has a lot more to do with

01:05:32.720 let's say putting your money where your mouth is and and that's the faith that you described you

01:05:39.060 used the analogy of of the the hitchhiker and the and the passenger and the driver right to to let

01:05:46.320 something that isn't your narrow self-interest take control well you obviously made a decision when

01:05:53.760 you decided to say and create what you needed to say and create instead of staying within the confines of

01:06:01.020 your contractual obligations how is that related to the revelation or the development of your faith

01:06:07.080 well listen there was a long time that you know the story of the prodigal son I'm sure you know that

01:06:12.940 one well well man I was the I was the embodiment of that I mean imagine what my dad the street preacher

01:06:18.760 who had been to Mardi Gras 34 times must have thought when he sees his young son saying I'm not going to

01:06:25.280 go to college I'm going to go out on the road and play in places I'm not even old enough to be in

01:06:30.160 all over the United States because I want to have a career in country music can you imagine what my

01:06:35.520 dad must have thought I mean and then to make matters worse I was really successful at it and I lived

01:06:41.980 that lifestyle for a very long time very long time and and at one point it got to the point I think I

01:06:48.800 had upset the boss so bad because I knew what the truth was I was just going ah some other time I'm busy

01:06:55.200 doing what I want to do I upset him so bad I remember I was sitting in a hotel room

01:07:00.240 and felt like I got abandoned I felt like all of a sudden I could feel like something left the room

01:07:10.240 like completely unprotected at all like like the Lord just walked out of the room he had had enough

01:07:17.760 okay you you know what to do you're gonna call your own shots good luck with that buddy like that

01:07:23.600 and walked out of the room and I felt it like a like ice water rolling down your back you could feel it

01:07:29.720 and that persisted for several months and I it was horrible matter of fact in Psalms David writes about

01:07:37.040 that a lot about he said I cry out to you but you don't answer you know because David did a lot of

01:07:42.820 things wrong I mean he did some really bad stuff that he had to repent for and come back from but

01:07:48.360 stuff that his punishment was God just left him standing there just left him and so I felt that I

01:07:54.500 felt that many years ago and I didn't want to ever feel that again and so I realized at that point

01:07:59.560 okay it's it's time to it's time to put this nonsense away and and go be who I'm supposed to be

01:08:06.540 because otherwise what's the point of life were you how old were you when that happened I was in

01:08:12.660 my late 30s oh yeah oh yeah yeah so you'd been on the road a long time by that been on the road a

01:08:18.700 long time by then yeah I certainly had you know people say well I'm a good person I'm a good person

01:08:26.100 I'm gonna go to heaven I'm a good person I feed the homeless I give money to charity I'm whatever I go

01:08:32.360 to church every Sunday I'm a good person the problem with that is if you believe that the words

01:08:38.400 of the bible are true which I do it says all your righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of

01:08:46.820 God meaning there is no such thing as a good person none of us are good nobody not even the ones that

01:08:53.780 wrote the books of the bible they're not good either the only good in any of us is him it's like we

01:09:00.300 talked about earlier how do you discern how do you discern what a lie is the only way you can discern

01:09:04.720 what a lie is is to put it up against the actual truth and you put it up against the actual truth

01:09:09.120 it's obviously a lie at that point and Jesus Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

01:09:15.600 and no man comes to the father except by me he said that so there you go so if you really want to

01:09:22.580 know what the truth is you got to bang those lies up against him there's a lot of people that that

01:09:26.940 get in these comfortable positions and I think that the churches in America are largely to blame

01:09:32.800 for it that they will not preach what I would call the hard parts of the bible they will not preach

01:09:39.000 the parts that prick the hearts of the people that are sitting in those pews they won't say the things

01:09:44.640 that make them uncomfortable they want to keep the church full they want to keep the offering plates

01:09:49.660 full they want the money to keep coming right but that doesn't work it's well ultimately it's certainly

01:09:55.960 not working in Europe that's for sure well no I mean the churches still have some people in the U.S.

01:10:01.080 but the Christian church is having a hell of a time most of the west and I think it is in part

01:10:06.540 because the demands aren't high enough on the people who are attending well they're not the

01:10:10.380 road's being made too easy yeah they're not they're not preaching and teaching things that convict people

01:10:15.580 that make them have to step up to the plate and realize oh wow I'm not I'm not doing what what

01:10:21.100 Jesus wants me to do I'm not living up to what he said I haven't really given my will over to him

01:10:27.040 I've just been lip service this whole time and feeling good about everything and that is so

01:10:31.840 dangerous doctor because when your body dies and that spirit is cut loose and the next thing you see

01:10:39.140 is him he's not going to care how many times you went to church he's not going to care how much

01:10:46.060 academia or intellectualism or any kind of things that you applied to him and what he said he's not

01:10:54.180 going to care all he's going to do is say do you belong to me or not did you ever yield to me did

01:11:01.400 you turn yourself over to me or not and there's a lot of people going to be disappointed when that

01:11:06.440 day happens and and that is a dangerous thing for people there's so many people with so much potential

01:11:11.800 in this world that have swallowed that lie and swallowed versions of it and they they put themselves

01:11:17.300 in a state of being comfortable about it and go you know I think I'm good I think I'm good

01:11:21.940 yeah I checked my IRS statement I gave a lot of money last year to charity I'm good I'm good with

01:11:27.020 them that's what they think that is not how that's going to work and so the reason people are so afraid

01:11:34.940 to turn their will over to become a bond servant to Jesus Christ is because it scares them to death

01:11:44.240 because because I'm I'm used to controlling I'm in control of what's going on and to turn that over

01:11:53.880 to him he's going to control what I'm doing well what's he going to do how am I going to change what's

01:11:59.860 my life going to be like at that point it scares them to death and a lot of people have have a lot

01:12:05.160 of built-up barriers around them a lot a lot of people as you well know were abused when they were a

01:12:09.780 kid for instance they were treated terribly they were abused some people abused so bad you wouldn't

01:12:15.460 even mention it in this interview it's so horrible it's going on right now and you're talking about

01:12:19.260 an epidemic of this has happened and a lot of people then wrap themselves in various things to

01:12:24.540 protect themselves from from anybody ever been able to get to them again including the son of God

01:12:29.920 including him they don't want to give it over to anybody because it scares them too much to think

01:12:34.580 about what would that be like I actually I actually watched uh I watched a lot of your a lot of your

01:12:40.040 stuff and there was one time it said it was three years ago I don't know if that's accurate or not

01:12:45.940 but actually I actually wrote down what you said and I wondered if you'd let me quote you for a minute

01:12:50.980 oh can I quote you in our in your it's your interview can I quote you okay hey man go right

01:12:57.360 I appreciate that all right this is this is Dr. Jordan Peterson here a quote from him

01:13:04.600 what you have in the figure of Christ is the actual person who actually lived plus a myth

01:13:12.960 and in some sense Christ is the union of those two things the problem is that I probably believe that

01:13:21.120 but I'm amazed at my own belief and I don't understand it because I've seen that sometimes the

01:13:27.320 objective world and the narrative world touch that's union synchronicity and I've seen that

01:13:33.560 many times in my own life and so in some sense I believe it's undeniable you know we have a narrative

01:13:40.740 sense of the world for me that's been the world of morality that's the world that tells us how to act

01:13:46.040 it's real we treat it like it's real it's not the objective world but sometimes the narrative and the

01:13:53.980 objective world touch and the ultimate example of that in principle is supposed to be Christ

01:14:00.140 and that seems to me oddly plausible but I still don't know what to make of it partly because

01:14:08.620 it's too terrifying of a reality to fully believe I don't know what would even happen to you if you

01:14:16.220 fully believed it yeah so what struck me about that when I heard you say that was was the terrified part

01:14:26.280 because to me I would think it'd be the greatest thing in the world if Jesus is who the Bible says

01:14:34.280 he is if that is true then you should go running straight to him because he controls heaven and hell

01:14:43.980 he created the universe he's the alpha the omega he is he is the way the truth and the life he's every

01:14:51.500 answer you ever wanted to have every answer to every question he is the ultimate he he loves you more than

01:15:00.080 anybody will ever love you he created you you you you are his creation the last thing he wants to see

01:15:07.600 happen to you is for you to go and follow the other way and wind up in eternity separated from him

01:15:13.800 so I had I know it's your interview but I wanted to ask you what terrifies you about the notion

01:15:20.180 that Jesus might be who the Bible actually says he is

01:15:23.800 well it's been as you pointed out a number of years since I said those things and

01:15:32.640 I know more and understand more than I did when I said those words um

01:15:40.060 I've I've reconceptualized my perspective I suppose or deepened it partly as a consequence of

01:15:51.680 writing these new books because I have three books finished and one of them is coming out soon and

01:15:56.660 they're all analysis of the biblical narratives this is something we can talk about in relationship

01:16:02.920 to what happened to you after you decided to leave the confines of the safe confines let's say of the

01:16:08.320 music industry see I started to understand in the story of Abraham for example God comes to Abraham as

01:16:14.320 the voice of adventure right because Abraham is an old man by the time God shows up and he's living in

01:16:22.240 comfort and he has everything you might need if all you wanted to be is a satiated infant and God is

01:16:29.960 really what calls Abraham out into the world and he has the whole catastrophic adventure of his life

01:16:35.540 right he encounters famine and totalitarianism and war and malevolence and the destruction of cities and

01:16:42.700 the necessity to offer up even his own son I mean Abraham's life is quite the spectacular catastrophe

01:16:49.140 and that what would you say the religious injunction the deepest religious injunction is to

01:16:57.260 have exactly that catastrophe of adventure and there's no real limit to that and that's part of

01:17:04.160 what's terrifying you know you said that if the terror wasn't there that holy terror in a sense

01:17:11.360 you wouldn't have had any compunctions about giving up your contractual relationships and the

01:17:17.640 financial stability and the fame that that offered right you already had that it's there's a there's a

01:17:25.680 terror in letting that go let's say and only doing what what would you say what you're commanded to

01:17:34.040 do or what you're invited to do by the spirit of the truth but the payoff is an adventure that's so

01:17:40.720 disproportionately greater than whatever you would have gained by staying with your what would you

01:17:47.960 say your hedonistic comfort that they're not even in the same universe right and that is it's the kind

01:17:53.400 of terror so you know when God casts Adam and Eve out of the garden or when they separate themselves

01:18:00.960 from God God puts a sword to bar the way back to the eternal garden and this the sword is on fire and

01:18:10.680 it turns every which way and what that means is that it's a sword that cuts and burns away everything

01:18:17.000 that isn't worthy of being in the kingdom of heaven and everything that's not worthy is a lot and there's a

01:18:26.440 terror there's a terror in being subjected to that even though it's a necessary sub subjugation it's

01:18:34.240 the most necessary of subjugations and so so what's the bigger gamble though I mean what's the bigger

01:18:40.340 terror let's be real french fries are the only good tasting vegetable out there but unfortunately

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01:19:23.940 balance of nature dot com promo code wire is the bigger terror oh that is the question in in this

01:19:30.020 very temporary body that we sit in this very short span of time we have to live in it that we don't

01:19:36.720 that he's going to take over and he's going to burn and cut and move things off of us and by the way

01:19:41.360 for everything he burns and cuts off he adds back by the way okay that he he adds things on where he

01:19:48.420 cut things off oh yeah more much more multiples of it is it a bigger terror to undergo that process

01:19:54.940 or to roll all the way through your life and the second your heart stops and your eyes open up you're

01:20:00.460 standing in front of him and you knew the truth and you rejected the truth and now what now he says

01:20:07.200 depart from me depart from me i never knew you and then it's eternal terror then it's eternal terror

01:20:13.240 forever forever and ever and there's no coming back you don't get a second chance at that that's

01:20:18.280 the ultimate terror so i would i would ask you one more question if if use the word if here

01:20:25.160 for you if jesus is truly who the bible says he is he is the creator he is the one who exists and

01:20:37.480 creates existence which is how he's defined he is the alpha and the omega he holds the keys to life

01:20:43.980 and death to heaven and hell if he is that person would you ever turn your life over to him if you

01:20:52.200 truly believed he was would you turn your life over to him well if you truly believed that turning

01:20:57.840 your life over to him under those conditions would be exactly the same as believing it belief isn't as

01:21:04.140 you already pointed out belief isn't a set of statements about what you believe to be true

01:21:08.280 it's a way of living well but i'm asking online what that way of living is well but i'm asking you

01:21:14.300 is just as as one of the most i would say one of the smartest guys in the world one of the most

01:21:18.240 intellectual people alive today it's why people watch you someone like yourself if you if you became

01:21:24.360 absolutely convinced yes that's real wow it is terrifying it is terrible but you said if you told him

01:21:32.560 i am turning my life over to you do what you will with me and you really did that

01:21:37.880 if you were if you were willing to do that um i already did that what a situation long time ago you

01:21:46.260 did i did that a long time ago yeah so so how is it that how is it that i know the truth sets you free

01:21:52.180 yeah i understand so so so in your life in your life it's not the doctor calling the shots

01:21:57.740 not when i'm oriented properly

01:22:02.900 what orients you

01:22:06.320 holy terror look i'm i'm trying to say the things that i believe serve the truth

01:22:16.480 like and i have reason for that like because i know that i know what the alternative is

01:22:22.940 if the alternative is bleak like bleaker than you can imagine and so step carefully that's my

01:22:31.320 presumption and hope and pray that you're careful enough to walk the straight narrow path

01:22:40.640 but it's but it's impossible you can't do that i can't do it you can't do it oh i understand i

01:22:46.040 understand what you mean i don't take any issue with what you've said yeah no i don't i don't think

01:22:50.400 you do and i'm i'm not trying to have an issue i'm just no i understand i've studied what you've

01:22:55.620 been saying and i know you look at the bible it seems at least very metaphorically and very

01:23:00.980 intellectually you look at it in those kinds of terms and at the end of the day it's it's not a

01:23:07.780 metaphor and it's not intellectualism like when when you die and you see him what's he going to say

01:23:14.800 to you what are you going to say to him i mean that's the ultimate question that everybody watching

01:23:20.280 this interview is going to have to deal with everybody it says every knee shall bow every

01:23:25.420 tongue shall confess that jesus christ is lord every knee including john rich and jordan peterson and

01:23:32.380 the devil himself and everybody else every knee is going to have to bow and so whether you believe

01:23:38.700 that or not doesn't change the fact that that is what is going to happen and i i happen to believe

01:23:43.480 because it says in the scripture that the lord reveals himself to every man every man knows it

01:23:49.240 he says i stand at the door and knock and if any man hears my voice and opens the door i'll come in

01:23:56.860 with him i'll sit down with him i'll dine with him i'll have dinner with him and he with me and so

01:24:02.620 you hear him knocking on that door and you walk up you open it and you let him in that is what that

01:24:09.740 means you have invited him into your house let's call your body this is my house i invite him in

01:24:14.600 he sits down he becomes he's living in my house now that's what that means it also says he won't

01:24:20.480 knock forever he will not knock forever if you if you reject said you experienced that yeah experienced

01:24:27.920 that when you felt abandoned yep yep uh he he won't knock forever at some point if you reject him long

01:24:35.400 enough it says he'll just turn you over to your desires and go well we gave it a good shot move on

01:24:41.540 and brother you don't want to get to that point so anybody watching this if you feel him you feel him

01:24:46.860 knocking at the door open the door it's very simple you don't need a preacher you don't need a priest

01:24:54.020 you don't need anybody that to sit down with to give your life to jesus and go to heaven you don't need

01:25:00.000 anybody you can sit there all by yourself and you can reach out to him you can give your life to him

01:25:05.740 right there anytime you want to that's one problem with religion you've used the word religious about

01:25:11.640 me there's nothing religious about me religion religion in my opinion has built these constructs

01:25:19.200 where they make people think you have to go confess your sins to this person or you have to go through

01:25:24.540 a preacher you have to go through some other earthly sinful human being i mean tell me where it says that

01:25:29.740 anywhere it doesn't doesn't say that anywhere that's their way of keeping people under control

01:25:35.260 making them come through those doors they think if they don't do it that way then they're not going

01:25:38.800 to get there and that's that's another one of the big deceptions that are out there that's why

01:25:42.540 i don't like uh i don't like that old notion of religion jesus was not a religious person the

01:25:48.480 religious people persecuted jesus back in the day so it's important for people to know these

01:25:54.160 distinctions i mean you you can have one-on-one with him he's right there he's literally right

01:26:00.200 there it's as simple as that we don't have to intellectualize everything about him and try to

01:26:05.840 figure out every single nook and cranny of every single word that he said just go look at what he said

01:26:11.000 he made it real simple and again we're all going to have to go to that point everybody's going to die

01:26:17.720 everybody and the second you die it says to be absent from the flesh is to be present with god

01:26:24.580 like boom just like that and you're standing in front of the boss and what are you going to say to

01:26:30.720 him what's he going to say to you that's the only conversation any human being should be concerned about

01:26:35.600 john that's probably a good time to end this part of the conversation i wanted to talk to you about

01:26:44.360 the meaning of the lyrics that you wrote down in this song but i think we'll do that on the daily

01:26:51.140 wire side because that'll be a good additional half an hour and this is actually a very good time to

01:26:58.140 end and so i guess what i would say in closing to what you said is that obviously you have a specific

01:27:08.020 idea about what constitutes faith and your faith and you use the metaphor of the driver to lay that

01:27:18.480 forward and that seems to me to be a very good representation of what constitutes faith because it

01:27:27.300 does come down to let's say who you invite in to take charge exactly right that's

01:27:38.000 not the same as stating words of faith right correct so that's that's that's the whole point

01:27:48.240 good thing doctor that's the whole point you said the whole point right there exactly right

01:27:52.300 yeah well that's that's that's what do you say that's the that's the truth protection against

01:27:58.700 religious hypocrisy as well you know part of the reason i'm loath in many ways to talk about

01:28:04.100 directly about what i believe let's say is because i'm not really that interested in taking credit for

01:28:11.920 what i believe you know what i mean for me it's something to kind of hold secret because it's not

01:28:18.440 for public display because the problem with public display is that that's the pathway of the pharisees

01:28:25.300 and so it's it's dangerous to to pray in public and to and to make your case known in the streets

01:28:35.500 let's say so that's well that's well but it does say and i know you want to wrap up so obviously we

01:28:41.260 will but it does say go out and preach the gospel to every nation yeah every human being out there

01:28:46.180 and now what the pharisees and sadducees did we look look how holy we are we're giving all this money

01:28:51.540 look at us we're we're we're so benevolent we're so holy it says give give your gifts in secret that's

01:28:58.300 what it's talking about when you make a donation or you help somebody don't advertise it all over

01:29:03.040 the world he doesn't appreciate that but when it talks about go out and tell everybody about the

01:29:08.600 truth of who i am and what the bible says and what the what the stakes are the eternal stakes out here

01:29:15.000 you are supposed to go say that and and let me tell you something doctor as we wrap you you could be

01:29:22.300 one of the most powerful weapons in the hand of god that he ever that he ever slung ever because of

01:29:30.280 because of the intellect that you have because of the platform that you have because of the millions

01:29:36.060 of people and what you've learned you've read every word of the bible you've dissected it you know what

01:29:40.820 it is and the day that becomes absolutely life and death real to you you sir could be one of the

01:29:46.360 most powerful human beings in my opinion that ever walked the face of the earth

01:29:50.320 well i think you'll like my new book john looking forward to it all right sir well thank you for the

01:30:00.240 conversation today and thank you and thank you to everybody who's watching and listening to and paying

01:30:04.740 attention to this and as i alluded to i'm going to continue to talk to john for another half an hour on

01:30:10.220 the daily wire side and i think we'll delve more into the lyrics of his song revelation since we've

01:30:15.280 uncovered the motivation behind the song and also the preconditions for it to make itself manifest you

01:30:22.900 might say and so uh yeah well it's complicated eh how these things come about and i'd also like to

01:30:28.860 talk to you a little bit more about how it's been received so for everybody who is watching and

01:30:32.940 listening you could join us on the daily wire side to complete this conversation that give you an

01:30:38.600 opportunity to throw some support their way too because uh at least in my experience they are a

01:30:43.660 platform that promotes free speech uh they've left me the hell alone to do exactly what it is that i do

01:30:50.580 and also enabled me to bring most of it to people while on youtube for public consumption and which is a

01:30:57.380 very generous offer on the part of the company so in any case you can join us there if you're inclined to

01:31:02.340 thank you very much sir that was extremely interesting and uh yeah well thanks for uh for

01:31:09.980 letting everybody know how you you know how you came to the conclusions that you've come to and what

01:31:16.160 that's meant much appreciated thank you for the opportunity i appreciate it sir

01:31:20.000 you

01:31:23.500 you

01:31:25.540 you

01:31:27.040 you

01:31:29.100 you

01:31:29.600 you

01:31:41.620 you

470. Prophecy, Revelation, & the Spiritual Battle ｜ John Rich

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