The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 476. Crime and Punishment

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00:00:58.620 So, everybody, I'm talking with my wife and Tommy Robinson again today.

00:01:19.780 Many of you know Tommy Robinson is, I don't know, maybe he's the most controversial person in the Western world at the moment.

00:01:29.980 I mean, there's always Trump, and it's hard to beat Trump for sheer controversy, but Robinson is definitely in the forefront.

00:01:38.300 He was the whistleblower on the grooming gangs, the rape gangs in the UK, and he's been the enemy of the leftists, but also the establishment, so to speak, in the UK for many, many years,

00:01:52.300 and has paid a big price for his work as a political activist and as a journalist.

00:01:59.880 And Tammy and I talked to him about a month ago after, just before he organized an assemblage of working-class British people in Truffaut Square,

00:02:10.620 about 100,000 people, very, very peaceful.

00:02:12.860 And that, in turn, was just before there was a terrible mass murder in the UK that precipitated a series of protests and riots,

00:02:22.920 and then a real crackdown by the UK government, a crackdown that I do believe threatens free speech in a major way.

00:02:30.440 The podcast that Tammy and I did with Tommy has been interfered with in a major way by YouTube and by Google.

00:02:37.700 It's been deprioritized in the search engines, the comments have been turned off, it's been demonetized, people can't share it,

00:02:44.080 there's a community warning on it, and I think all of that is a consequence of the fact that what we were discussing is actually dead on target,

00:02:51.700 and that's an indication that that's the case.

00:02:55.020 And I guess in for a penny, in for a pound, I was very interested in talking to Robinson.

00:03:00.500 I'm trying to get to the bottom of things, I'm trying to sort out the story, and so is my wife.

00:03:04.680 And we didn't finish doing that the last time we talked, and so I took the opportunity today,

00:03:10.360 I hope, to roast Robinson over somewhat of a slow fire insofar as I'm capable of doing that,

00:03:16.980 to face him with the allegations that have been levied against him with regards to being a right-wing activist

00:03:23.100 and to his past history of behavior that's resulted in convictions and imprisonment in the British judicial system and the penitentiary system.

00:03:35.280 We walked through all that to the degree that we were capable, and that's what you're going to be presented with today.

00:03:40.980 So thank you very much for your time and attention in that regard.

00:03:44.380 It's a very controversial podcast.

00:03:48.540 Yeah.

00:03:49.640 Hello, Mr. Robinson.

00:03:51.220 Hello, Tammy.

00:03:52.020 Nice to see you guys again, I suppose, if nice is the word.

00:03:55.820 Hi, Jordan.

00:03:56.400 Hi, Tammy.

00:03:57.000 Good to see you both.

00:03:58.240 Lots has happened.

00:04:00.200 Yeah, well, and lots has happened.

00:04:02.900 Well, it's been a month, and so let's maybe start with a review of what's actually happened as a consequence of our video.

00:04:10.760 So the first thing is that it's probably accrued something approximating 4 million views, although it's hard to tell at the moment,

00:04:19.300 partly because YouTube is up to the sorts of tricks that have become standard in today's media, I would say.

00:04:27.920 So this is what YouTube has done.

00:04:29.880 Certain features have been disabled for this video.

00:04:33.580 In response to user reports, we have disabled some features, such as comments, sharing, and suggested videos,

00:04:42.740 because this video contains content that may be inappropriate or offensive to some audiences.

00:04:49.000 And so what does that mean?

00:04:50.400 Well, it's hard to tell exactly what it means.

00:04:52.600 It does mean that we don't get to see how people are responding to the video.

00:04:56.500 Now, this happened relatively recently, and I can tell you because I've been tracking the comments that the overwhelming majority of them are extremely positive.

00:05:04.660 And so obviously that isn't going to fly, and people don't get to say what they have to say about this video,

00:05:10.320 because, well, some people, some user reports, or some of the people who are submitting user reports have decided that this was inappropriate content.

00:05:20.900 So what else has happened?

00:05:21.960 Well, if you search for our video on Google, it's really hard to find.

00:05:27.260 And if you search for it on YouTube, it's also really hard to find.

00:05:31.160 If you type in Jordan Peterson, Tommy Robinson, our video comes up about 10th.

00:05:36.220 The first one that comes up has like 3,000 views instead of the multiple million views that our video had.

00:05:43.460 And then it's the same thing on Google.

00:05:45.260 And so we've had our behind-the-scenes people at YouTube investigating, and, you know, the scuttlebutt.

00:05:53.140 And who the hell knows if this is true, is that, you know, YouTube is bowing to external pressure,

00:05:58.240 and some of that's submitted, well, by the powers that be in the UK.

00:06:02.440 And so the reason I'm highlighting this is because, from a personal perspective, it's really, really annoying.

00:06:08.180 It's really annoying that the comments are turned off.

00:06:11.900 It's really annoying that it's demonetized and that it can't be shared.

00:06:16.680 It's even more annoying that the search engine is being mucked around with so that our video doesn't come up first,

00:06:23.380 as it should, so that it's not easy to find.

00:06:26.140 This is a real perversion of public communication, and this is completely independent of the validity of your stance.

00:06:31.540 And I don't know how to respond to this, because, you know, my sense is, if you're over the target, people get annoyed.

00:06:42.040 Okay, and then what else has happened?

00:06:45.820 Well, I've got a lot of feedback about our conversation.

00:06:50.120 I knew it was going to be contentious, and most of that feedback has been positive.

00:06:54.820 People, reasonable people, I suppose, thought I should have raked you over the coals more.

00:06:59.160 Or Tammy, as well, should have raked you over the coals more about some of the issues in your past,

00:07:04.360 and so we're going to do that today.

00:07:07.580 And then I guess we could talk about, too, Tommy, let's talk about what's happened to you in the last month.

00:07:12.040 So bring everybody up to date, and then we'll continue our conversation.

00:07:29.160 By shopping at Stickermule.com slash Daily Wire, you're not just getting awesome merch, you're supporting free speech and standing up against leftist groupthink.

00:07:58.260 Plus, a portion of every sale goes directly to support The Daily Wire.

00:08:02.180 So what are you waiting for?

00:08:03.620 Head over to Stickermule.com slash Daily Wire today.

00:08:06.700 That's Stickermule.com slash Daily Wire.

00:08:10.840 So what your experience is now is what I've experienced since my activism.

00:08:16.140 And this is their ability to take away my voice or anyone from hearing from me,

00:08:21.200 so that they can continually tell people how I think and what I think.

00:08:24.160 That's all this is.

00:08:24.820 This is them controlling the public's opinion based upon me.

00:08:28.740 So they don't want people sitting and hearing my long-form discussion.

00:08:31.940 They would rather their controlled, weaponized media is able to give headlines,

00:08:36.340 as which we'll get onto over the last two weeks have been absolutely incredibly false,

00:08:40.900 and they've lied about me to the entire world.

00:08:43.300 Based on getting onto the fact that there's been riots in the UK,

00:08:46.260 and the media have said that I instigated them and directed them.

00:08:49.640 There's no truth in that.

00:08:50.640 There's no evidence of it.

00:08:51.460 Not a single piece of evidence, what they use is once the media say it once,

00:08:55.960 and I've gone on to watch as journalist after journalist.

00:08:58.420 Once it was put out by the Daily Mail, journalist after journalist have continued to regurgitate it.

00:09:04.400 And now it's spoken about, as a matter of fact, is that I controlled and I instigated the riots in the UK.

00:09:08.700 Whereas the evidence is that I made video after video after video, calling for people to remain calm and not go out in violence.

00:09:15.920 I just understood why they were angry.

00:09:17.740 So the truth, and when we get onto the media, so the Daily Mail, and the Daily Mail run a headline,

00:09:25.400 Peter and Tammy, that you've probably seen, where they tracked down where I was with my family.

00:09:30.440 I was on a vacation.

00:09:31.460 If I can go through the sequence of events, if that's best off starting, from the 20th.

00:09:36.160 So on the 27th of July, we held a peaceful rally, which we spoke about prior in our last discussion, was the build up to it.

00:09:44.940 And we didn't know what to expect.

00:09:46.160 We knew what we were going to try and do and what we wanted to do.

00:09:49.260 And we were totally successful in both of them.

00:09:51.480 We held 100,000 people in the largest gathering of British patriots the country's ever seen,

00:09:56.500 in Trafalgar Square, for a celebration of all the things that have been taken from us.

00:10:00.200 And when I say that, our identity, our culture, celebrating who we are as a community and as a country and as a people,

00:10:07.680 and all the things that they've wanted to weaken about us.

00:10:10.000 We brought about every community.

00:10:12.720 The diversity of our crowd was everyone from every background to celebrate being British.

00:10:19.220 And we sent a message to the establishment on the 27th of July that if we had 100,000 people there on the streets,

00:10:25.740 and we had almost a million watching live, and it was totally peaceful.

00:10:30.580 And I'll explain why it was peaceful.

00:10:32.480 It was peaceful because we organised ourselves and we didn't allow any infiltration.

00:10:36.520 We've seen the allegations and the suspicions on January 6th that many of the people instigating the violence were working with the government.

00:10:43.460 How could they do that on our demonstration when we made sure that all of our men,

00:10:47.040 we had influential men, tough men from across the UK, who came with the same mindset for a peaceful demonstration.

00:10:55.020 And we made the rule that if anyone covers their faces, if anyone turns up wearing all black,

00:10:59.960 and we'll get on to why this is important, because we've seen riots in the UK.

00:11:03.380 And if you look at each of the videos of the riots and at the hotels,

00:11:06.960 the people at the leading front of it are wearing exactly the same full disguises,

00:11:11.740 where no one can see their identity, and they're the ones instigating the violence.

00:11:14.840 So we made it impossible for them to do that because they would have known

00:11:18.060 that if anyone turned up with a face covering, 100 English men would be turning on them.

00:11:23.020 Take down the face mask. What are you doing, Ian? Who are you from?

00:11:26.120 So we held a peaceful rally. It was impossible to infiltrate our movement without being confronted.

00:11:31.840 And we made sure everyone knew that.

00:11:33.800 And we made sure that all the different groups of men that were coming from across the UK,

00:11:37.480 which we held meetings beforehand, saying if there's five men, 10 men, 20 men, we must confront them.

00:11:42.980 If anyone turns up to instigate violence on the streets in our name, we will confront them.

00:11:47.800 And the security services, which I'm sorry, but it's the security services who have instigated violence in many demonstrations.

00:11:53.720 In fact, if your people want to Google special demonstration squad, as you're watching this video,

00:11:59.780 you will see secretive organisations in the UK that were from the government,

00:12:02.960 which infiltrate demonstration movements to instigate a narrative that they want.

00:12:08.000 They want us to be violent. They want us wearing masks and they want to be able to delegitimise what we stand for.

00:12:14.580 And what's happened since the 27th of July, we had 100,000 people on the street.

00:12:19.160 We had a celebration. It wouldn't have gone the way the authorities or the security services or any of them would have wanted it to go.

00:12:24.780 And that was we have gone from working class. We are now peeling to the middle class.

00:12:29.440 We're now reaching the masses in our movement.

00:12:31.920 We have a larger reach than ever before. And the way they've managed to tarnish us and taint us for a decade has not been successful in the last six months.

00:12:40.160 And the reason being, I have an account here on X. I can I can reach the public myself.

00:12:44.720 So the way they've censored us, as you're now experiencing on your YouTube channel, is they've silenced our voice.

00:12:50.140 And then they've told people how to think using their media. It's 27th of July.

00:12:53.760 We have a successful event. The next day I travel to the border of the UK and I'm arrested under counterterrorism legislation.

00:13:00.420 What does that mean? That means that as I got in my car and as I travel through the border, I was detained.

00:13:06.380 I was told it's under Article 7 of the Terrorism Legislation Act, I believe, where they read, they actually read out and it says,

00:13:13.760 we believe you're in the instigation and preparation of acts of terrorism so we can now detain you.

00:13:18.760 And both the officers said, well, we don't believe that. But this legislation gives us the power to now do this.

00:13:24.540 So give us your phone. They seize my phone. They can seize all electrical devices.

00:13:28.420 Then they sat me down for six hours under interrogation, where you do not have a right to remain silent.

00:13:34.540 Now, this should terrify everyone because these sorts, it's like the Patriot Act in the United States.

00:13:39.780 They bring in this legislation to prohibit terrorism.

00:13:42.940 So legitimate reasons that then take our freedoms away.

00:13:46.940 And then they turn it and use it against citizens.

00:13:49.240 So I'm sitting there as a journalist. I've held a peaceful rally.

00:13:51.720 And here I am for six hours being questioned about certain things.

00:13:55.680 One of the questions I was asked is, how do you think you're going to stop the Great Replacement?

00:14:00.140 This is a question from counterterrorism in a six-hour interview where I do not have a right to remain silent.

00:14:05.680 When I ask what that means, if you don't answer our questions, we'll charge you under terrorism legislation.

00:14:10.620 So if you do not give us a password to your phone, you'll be charged under terrorism legislation.

00:14:14.560 So I sit there under interview for six hours, answer the most absurd questions about why there can't be a two-state solution in Palestine.

00:14:23.220 What's my opinion on that?

00:14:24.520 Wanting to know, wanting to question about who's organised behind the scenes in our movement that we've just held.

00:14:30.980 What are we planning next?

00:14:32.480 These are all legitimate things that have absolutely no business of the British state.

00:14:37.720 But here they are infringing on my rights and our rights, and especially my rights as a journalist.

00:14:42.080 Because when they got into then seizing my phone and asking me for the passcode in my phone, at which point I said, well, I'm sorry, you're not having the passcode in my phone.

00:14:51.200 Because I work as a journalist, that's my phone.

00:14:54.020 And before they got me into interview, I read their legislation, and they weren't allowed to question me in an interview that would do anything that would reveal sources of information for my work as a journalist.

00:15:04.780 So I said, well, by opening my phone, you're going to reveal privileged information between me and my lawyers, because they're aware I've got a full-on legal battle with them now about the film that I've made, Jordan.

00:15:16.300 I don't want to go off on tangents here, but I probably will.

00:15:19.660 We spoke before.

00:15:21.100 I made a decision on the 27th of July.

00:15:24.100 I had 100,000 people watching, almost a million online.

00:15:26.940 I made a decision to play a movie that was banned.

00:15:31.260 It was banned for three years prior.

00:15:33.820 I had been prohibited from showing evidence to the British public, again, because they wish to control how people think.

00:15:39.680 They had used their media to tell the public that I had lied.

00:15:43.500 I had made a documentary that three years prior, I failed.

00:15:48.060 I failed as a journalist.

00:15:49.300 I failed, as I'd say, as a father, as an Englishman.

00:15:52.460 It's my job to protect and expose corruption, especially when it comes from the British state.

00:15:58.060 When the British state are weaponising courts, and what you're all witness now in the last two weeks is what I've known.

00:16:05.280 They have weaponised the judiciary.

00:16:07.400 Within seven days, some people were arrested and some people committed a crime, and within two or three days,

00:16:11.900 it was televised to the British public as they were sent to prison for years for things they'd said on Facebook.

00:16:17.500 What this has been an attempt to do is to scare the British public, intimidate them into silence.

00:16:23.840 The reason being, we are on the verge of a cultural revolution in Great Britain.

00:16:28.980 And what does that have the ability to do?

00:16:30.900 What we've done on the 27th of July has the ability to inspire the entire West.

00:16:35.540 It has the ability to inspire the sleeping population of Europe.

00:16:40.540 The population who know everything that's happening to Europe right now with open border mass immigration is wrong.

00:16:46.020 OK, they're destroying our culture and identity, nation by nation, people by people.

00:16:50.560 They're attacking us. This is an attack on the West.

00:16:53.360 Now, bringing 100,000 people on the street in a peaceful celebration and sending a message to the establishment is not certainly not what they want.

00:17:01.280 So what we've witnessed since that day is a full on attack and especially against me.

00:17:06.080 And if I can go on talking about this, but if it's OK, I will so that people get the full context of what's happened here.

00:17:12.920 I'm taken in by counter-terrorism by the time I'm released.

00:17:17.580 And I've got a question about the film that I played.

00:17:19.920 I make an allegation in that film.

00:17:22.600 In that film, the film is about...

00:17:25.260 That's silence, great.

00:17:25.940 This is silence.

00:17:27.340 The film is called Silenced, yeah.

00:17:28.640 The film is called Silence. It's pinned on my Twitter, which is at T. Robinson New Era.

00:17:32.280 The problem they have, they can't stop people viewing or restrict the comments on X because they don't have control of Elon Musk.

00:17:40.040 That is why they're upset with Elon Musk.

00:17:41.760 It's why Elon Musk is now being called a danger to our country.

00:17:45.340 It's why he's now being labelled as far right, as an extremist.

00:17:48.260 All the same labelling they give to us is now what he faces because they don't have control.

00:17:52.980 So at the minute, I think when we spoke before, I was hoping that 10 million people would watch the film.

00:17:57.300 And the reason I was hoping that was because it totally exposes the corruption of the judiciary,

00:18:02.840 the weaponisation of the judiciary, and the way the media and all of them conspire together to control the narrative,

00:18:08.280 and the way they destroy anyone who gets in the way of the narrative, which is what I've currently faced.

00:18:12.220 That film is currently on 44 million views.

00:18:15.200 I currently face, as people of the media have said, that I'm currently on the run.

00:18:19.620 That's what they've said is I'm on the run and I fled a court case.

00:18:23.380 So I go to leave the country the next day, I'm detained by counter-terrorism, I'm held.

00:18:29.460 They then make the...

00:18:30.760 When I refuse to give my pin code, I say no, and I'll give the reason so people understand.

00:18:36.400 As a journalist, I've made a five-part documentary series called The Rape of Britain.

00:18:40.440 In that, we uncover corrupt police officers.

00:18:43.580 In episode six, we're about to uncover a corrupt politician in the same town

00:18:49.040 who has allegations of child abuse against him.

00:18:51.940 We have covert recordings of this.

00:18:54.280 Why would they want access to my phone?

00:18:55.880 Which is what I was asking them.

00:18:57.620 Am I going to give you access to my phone when I have my sources of information on there for this?

00:19:02.420 And so people understand my concerns, because they're legitimate concerns.

00:19:06.180 In Rotherham, one of the towns hit by the rape scandal of Muslim men raping young English girls,

00:19:13.300 the police actually deleted evidence.

00:19:15.360 When young girls went in and gave them their underwear, which had the DNA of men on it,

00:19:19.500 who had raped them, when they then went back in for the prosecution of the case,

00:19:23.100 the underwear had gone missing.

00:19:25.000 In Rochdale, in Telford, in all of these cases, the police worked against the interests of the public.

00:19:31.040 They worked to hide the evidence in these cases, to get rid of evidence and protect the rapists.

00:19:36.180 And not just protect the rapists, but protect the dirty hands of lead police officers

00:19:40.540 and lead government officials who had allowed this rape to continue for a generation.

00:19:44.440 So many of them had dirty hands.

00:19:46.660 So I told the police, why would I give you?

00:19:49.320 These girls have come to me to tell their stories.

00:19:51.920 They trust me, not you.

00:19:53.920 And the reason they do that is because whatever you put on your computer system,

00:19:57.760 and in fact, in episode five of our investigation,

00:20:01.960 it was the police who gave the address of our survivor to the Muslim gangs.

00:20:06.680 It was the police who leaked the information to families at the school.

00:20:10.320 It was the police.

00:20:10.960 So no, I'm not about to put the jeopardy or the safety of the survivors

00:20:14.920 or anyone who's given me their trust in confiding in me with information so I can expose it.

00:20:22.440 And that goes for whether it be about corruption of the court cases,

00:20:25.160 the judiciary, or the rape gang.

00:20:26.960 So I told the police in uncertain terms, you're not going to get a pin code off of me.

00:20:30.820 And if you want to charge me under terrorism legislation, then you do that.

00:20:34.320 And at which point I was transferred from the port to a police station to be charged.

00:20:39.480 I then had a solicitor, because up until this point,

00:20:42.340 you don't have a right to remain silent under terrorism legislation.

00:20:45.300 I then get a solicitor.

00:20:47.100 We're both told, including my solicitor, that we're about to be prosecuted.

00:20:50.320 I undergo an interview where I explain exactly what I'd already said to the police.

00:20:53.660 No, you're not having it.

00:20:55.140 And this is an abuse of police power.

00:20:57.780 The first question to me was, what is your opinion in terrorism legislation?

00:21:02.660 What is your opinion of the UK right now?

00:21:05.080 And I said, a totalitarian state.

00:21:07.580 And they said, do you care to explain that?

00:21:09.700 I said, yes, I'm currently sat here under no investigation.

00:21:11.900 You don't believe I've committed any offence.

00:21:14.600 But here I am, without a right to remain silent, being quizzed about my legal and lawful

00:21:19.260 activism and journalism, and under terrorism legislation.

00:21:24.140 This is a totalitarian state.

00:21:25.680 This stinks of nothing more.

00:21:27.100 This exposes nothing more than a totalitarian state.

00:21:30.240 So I went through all of this.

00:21:31.520 And then when it gets to, I'd undergo my interview and I'm sat in my cell for five or six hours

00:21:35.160 and I don't get charged.

00:21:36.640 So I haven't yet been charged.

00:21:38.160 So something happened between this and this for them to make a decision, bail him.

00:21:42.160 And that's what they've done.

00:21:43.120 But they took my phone.

00:21:44.220 They took my phone to download every bit of data.

00:21:47.600 This is the government and the state receiving every bit of data off of my phone to do with

00:21:51.940 my work, my activism.

00:21:52.860 Even after I told them I'm a journalist, that's my work phone.

00:21:56.460 But they've still gone in.

00:21:57.620 So this is what happens on the 28th of July.

00:22:00.140 I'm then released.

00:22:01.760 I'm released on the 28th of July at 11pm.

00:22:04.540 I don't have a phone, but I continue to make my way where I was going.

00:22:08.480 I drive through France.

00:22:09.880 By the time I actually get a phone in Spain, by the time I get a 16 or 18 hour drive, I'm

00:22:16.000 then informed when I get online that there's been a murder of young girls in Southport,

00:22:23.140 in the north of England, where a man has gone in and he's butchered lots of children in Southport.

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00:23:37.920 That's all that was given to us at that time, okay?

00:23:40.560 Now, the alarming bell for me, not the alarming bell, but whether this is conspiracy or not,

00:23:44.960 because this proves it is, is that evening, there was a vigil, or the evening after.

00:23:50.880 There's a vigil for all the children who have been killed.

00:23:53.500 Southport is a close-knit, working-class community, and all of the families have come out,

00:23:57.880 and they're there.

00:23:59.160 And so people can understand what were they going through in this community.

00:24:02.360 A few days later, I spoke to one of the uncles of these children who were attacked.

00:24:06.680 His seven-year-old niece, the man entered the building, he grabbed her by the hair,

00:24:10.900 he stabbed her in the face, he stabbed her and took her bicep off, and he stabbed her in the body.

00:24:15.600 Then he dropped her.

00:24:16.780 Then he walked in, and he continued butchering.

00:24:19.020 Now, this one family and the uncle I spoke to, that was his niece.

00:24:22.620 The goddaughter on the other side of the family was nine years old,

00:24:25.460 and she was dead after being stabbed seven times.

00:24:27.780 So just so you can imagine the anguish, the anger from this community that was going on,

00:24:34.600 they've all come out to hold a vigil.

00:24:36.580 And around the corner from the vigil, a man of Arab appearance has been detained with another big knife and a balaclava.

00:24:45.040 So word has quickly spread amongst the vigil that there's another planned attack on the community.

00:24:50.500 That has boiled over into anger, into frustration, and into clashes with the police.

00:24:55.860 Now, I didn't organise this.

00:24:57.480 I hadn't even had a comment on it at this point.

00:24:59.360 But that night, when riot started ensuing by the British public, not by any organised group,

00:25:06.520 the police come out and made a statement saying it was members of the English Defence League.

00:25:11.320 Now, as soon as I heard that, so your viewers and listeners understand,

00:25:15.680 I formed the English Defence League in 2009.

00:25:18.580 It ended in 2015.

00:25:20.600 That's a decade.

00:25:22.200 There's not been an English Defence League for a decade.

00:25:24.940 There's no organisation.

00:25:26.560 There's no membership.

00:25:27.620 There's no meetings.

00:25:28.660 There's nothing.

00:25:29.520 It's unheard of.

00:25:30.800 OK?

00:25:31.060 It's unheard of.

00:25:32.060 But by blaming, rather than the...

00:25:33.860 I was trying to work out why they were doing this, and then I received this,

00:25:37.700 probably to land it on my feet, yeah, so they can tarnish me with...

00:25:41.620 If they have to accept, why are people rioting on the streets of Southport?

00:25:45.520 It's the British public.

00:25:46.860 It's not an organised far-right group.

00:25:48.620 But by straightaway labelling these British people as far-right,

00:25:53.580 they don't have to discuss why they're angry.

00:25:56.240 I'm taking four of my esteemed colleagues, and you, across the world...

00:26:01.280 Oh, wow.

00:26:01.840 This is amazing.

00:26:02.680 ...to rediscover the ways our ancient ancestors developed the ideas that shaped modern society.

00:26:08.360 It was a monument to civic greatness.

00:26:11.720 ...to visit the places where history was made.

00:26:13.900 That is ash from the actual fires when the Babylonians burned Jerusalem from 2,500 years ago.

00:26:21.540 To walk the same road...

00:26:23.160 We are following the path of the crucifixion...

00:26:25.680 ...and experience the same wonder.

00:26:35.740 We are on the site of a miracle.

00:26:38.480 What kind of resources can human beings bring to a mysterious but knowable universe?

00:26:46.880 Science, art, politics, all that makes life wonderful.

00:26:55.320 And something new about the world is revealed.

00:27:00.740 Foundations of the West.

00:27:02.340 Watch now on Daily Wire+.

00:27:04.320 Let me ask you a couple of things about that, Tommy, if you don't mind.

00:27:08.860 So, you should probably walk people through what the English Defence League was,

00:27:13.500 because that's one of the accusations that's levelled against you with regards to being far-right.

00:27:19.340 We should also probably take apart this massacre of these young girls,

00:27:25.040 because my understanding is when that first occurred,

00:27:28.160 that rumours were spread that that was like a first-generation immigrant was involved in the stabbing.

00:27:34.720 Now, it turned out that it was the...

00:27:36.880 It was a second-generation...

00:27:39.340 It was the child of first-generation immigrants.

00:27:42.200 And I'm not trying to make a case for that.

00:27:44.320 I'm just trying to lay out the facts.

00:27:46.520 And so, it isn't obvious to me, how do you understand the uproar about the stabbings,

00:27:57.080 the murders, in relationship to the furor that's developed on the immigration front?

00:28:03.700 So, let's walk through the English Defence League.

00:28:05.920 Also, I'd like to talk about the British National Party, too,

00:28:10.620 which you were involved in, that Wikipedia defines as fascist.

00:28:14.080 And so, those are two things we can deal with.

00:28:17.180 And then, I also want to know how you understand, conceptually,

00:28:21.720 the connection between your activism and that big rally that you had that was peaceful.

00:28:28.300 And because that had an effect,

00:28:29.900 and there's no reason to assume that that didn't increase the probability that

00:28:35.840 protests of the sort that we saw in the aftermath of the stabbing were likely to occur.

00:28:43.440 And how do you construe your own responsibility

00:28:46.900 for the heightened probability that such riots, for example, were likely to occur?

00:28:55.040 So, there's a lot of things to walk through.

00:28:56.900 English Defence League, British National Party,

00:28:59.460 and then your understanding of the relationship between your rally

00:29:03.240 and the protests that did degenerate into violence in the UK.

00:29:10.200 OK, let's see if we can sort that out.

00:29:13.020 We'll start on the British National Party.

00:29:14.300 So, you're right, the British National Party was a fascist political party.

00:29:17.900 And when I was 21 years old, I held my first ever rally,

00:29:21.920 and it was called Ban the Luton Taliban.

00:29:23.480 It was against the increased Islamisation and jihadist organisations.

00:29:26.940 We spoke about them in our last meeting.

00:29:29.440 Now, when you're drowning, you clutch at straws.

00:29:31.860 And Luton and my town was drowning.

00:29:34.540 And I looked for anyone talking about this issue.

00:29:37.080 The only people I found talking about were the British National Party.

00:29:39.900 Now, the reason why people know I was a member of the British National Party

00:29:42.320 is because there was a leaked list in this year that I'm talking about.

00:29:46.040 Now, the leaked list showed five years.

00:29:48.020 So, I joined one year.

00:29:49.740 I don't join the next year.

00:29:51.200 I don't renew my membership.

00:29:52.600 OK, and I'll explain why.

00:29:54.160 So, I joined the British National Party.

00:29:55.840 I looked for someone talking about they held a meeting.

00:29:58.220 I turned up to their meeting.

00:29:59.320 I spoke about it in our last sit-down.

00:30:01.940 I said that I was part of a football culture,

00:30:03.980 and there was a large group of us who went to football together.

00:30:06.040 So, the British National Party would have been excited

00:30:07.960 that they had boots on the ground in Luton.

00:30:10.300 Young men who were boots on the ground for their activism.

00:30:13.740 Now, when I joined the British National Party,

00:30:15.120 I had no idea that Nick Griffin, who was the leader of it,

00:30:18.420 was a former member of the National Front.

00:30:20.000 As I said, I wasn't political.

00:30:21.160 I was just a young nut.

00:30:22.340 And their first 10 points would...

00:30:24.680 You'd have to be brain-dead not to agree with them.

00:30:26.440 When you go on the website,

00:30:27.780 homes for British pensioners and all the 10 points you'd agree with, yeah?

00:30:32.760 So, they hold a meeting.

00:30:33.840 And we turn up to the meeting as young lads.

00:30:35.880 And this is actually documented by a far-left magazine called Searchlight.

00:30:40.440 And it's called When the MIGS, which is Luton's football community,

00:30:45.400 Luton's football hooligan element,

00:30:47.140 the men in gear fell out with the BMP.

00:30:50.160 So, we went to a meeting.

00:30:51.460 And when we got to the door, they said,

00:30:53.060 he can't come in, he can't come in.

00:30:54.480 And it was the black lads.

00:30:56.120 And we said, what do you mean they can't come in?

00:30:57.400 And they said, well, you can't be a member of the BMP unless you're white.

00:31:02.600 So, we told them, you're not having a meeting in our town then.

00:31:05.700 You're having no meetings in our town.

00:31:07.280 And the BMP was non-existent from this point, yeah?

00:31:10.200 So, non-existent.

00:31:11.400 So, four years later is when I formed the English Defence League.

00:31:14.020 And from the offset, we were welcome to every colour, every race, everybody.

00:31:18.160 So, I formed the English Defence League in 2009.

00:31:20.920 I want to get onto the far-right label, because this is provable as well.

00:31:23.980 So, the media called it far-right.

00:31:26.680 From the start, we had a Sikh leader, Guramit Singh.

00:31:29.140 Okay, great lad.

00:31:30.140 We've done more to educate the British public and the white,

00:31:33.320 predominantly white working class community of what Sikhs have given,

00:31:37.520 what other minorities have given into the UK.

00:31:39.860 And the reason being, I'm from Luton Towns.

00:31:41.960 The majority of my friends aren't white.

00:31:43.760 So, the ethos of the English Defence League started with my mindset.

00:31:47.100 We had a Sikh division, a Hindu division.

00:31:49.340 We had a lesbian and gay division.

00:31:50.800 We had a Jewish division.

00:31:52.040 We had divisions from every community.

00:31:54.680 Doesn't sound very far-right.

00:31:56.120 Now, let's not allow the media to decide whether an organisation is far-right.

00:32:01.100 There's a national extremism unit within the Metropolitan Police Force.

00:32:04.720 And it's their job to define groups like the English Defence League and the BNP.

00:32:08.620 The BNP, what categorised as extreme far-right,

00:32:11.780 the English Defence League, the entire time I led it, centre its organisation.

00:32:15.800 So, because the media say it once and then say it a hundred times,

00:32:18.460 and then it gets regurgitated by the media and politicians and all alike,

00:32:21.760 it was far-right, it was far-right.

00:32:23.440 It was never far-right.

00:32:24.820 And it was always judged by the national extremism unit of the Metropolitan Police Force

00:32:30.460 who are professionals and whose job it is to do this,

00:32:33.100 and look at groups as to what constitutes actually far-right,

00:32:36.520 is that Muslims should enter dialogue.

00:32:38.280 This was their advice, which the officer got absolutely hammered for.

00:32:41.240 But their advice was the English Defence League is a centre-ish organisation

00:32:45.040 and Muslims should enter dialogue with them.

00:32:47.320 People should listen to them.

00:32:48.640 That was the entirety of the time I led the English Defence League.

00:32:51.640 So, I left the English Defence League in 2014-15.

00:32:54.440 So, your viewers understand what it was.

00:32:56.320 We were an organisation that brought to the forefront issues

00:32:59.460 which government, media, politicians didn't want to have discussed.

00:33:03.080 They were issues that bring about the failures of open border mass immigration,

00:33:07.360 the effect it has on society,

00:33:08.700 and the reality of living in a town that's been...

00:33:11.680 that they've flooded with people of all different cultures.

00:33:14.420 So, a group that come about to highlight and bring to the forefront.

00:33:18.880 And remember, grooming, which we spoke about,

00:33:21.800 no one even knew...

00:33:22.480 There was no word grooming.

00:33:23.700 It's a pretty word they give it.

00:33:25.080 There was no word grooming.

00:33:26.300 No one knew of these rape gangs.

00:33:27.860 In fact, everyone was attacked or we were demonised for trying to talk about them.

00:33:31.280 Now, years on, everyone accepts they were a reality,

00:33:34.220 as were many of the problems we spoke about,

00:33:36.360 are now accepted as legitimate and accepted as truthful,

00:33:40.140 which is why videos I made years ago have aged well for me and not well for my opposition.

00:33:45.120 It's why people are listening to me now and realising that they lie.

00:33:49.160 It's why it puts them in a bad position and not me.

00:33:51.500 I can sit here and say, well, I told you the truth.

00:33:54.080 And the public, who have been crying out for the truth,

00:33:56.560 who are angered, who are scared,

00:33:58.280 at a time like this, when our culture is disappearing,

00:34:01.320 when our country's being flooded,

00:34:02.540 they're looking back over 10, 15 years and they're saying,

00:34:05.760 well, he was telling us the truth.

00:34:07.080 He wasn't lying.

00:34:08.100 And against all the flack and all the attacks and all the imprisonment,

00:34:11.400 they still maintain telling the truth.

00:34:13.440 And that truth isn't far right.

00:34:15.200 It's not even extreme.

00:34:16.680 It's the truth.

00:34:18.600 Okay, well, so a couple of things there.

00:34:21.280 So you said, for example,

00:34:23.300 you're objecting to the labelling of far right.

00:34:25.900 You make the claim that many of your friends aren't Caucasian or aren't white,

00:34:30.200 a very difficult thing to define.

00:34:32.380 You talk about the English Defence League bringing in Sikhs and Jews

00:34:35.700 and people from all sorts of different ethnic groups.

00:34:39.000 But there's also an anti-mass immigration through story in your discussions.

00:34:47.080 And so how do you distinguish between the kind of immigration

00:34:50.560 that has brought you the people that you have had friendships with in Luton

00:34:56.500 and the, what is it?

00:35:00.460 Is it the grooming gangs that's drawing the distinction?

00:35:03.520 Like, what is it that you're trying to tell people about immigration,

00:35:07.160 given that you also have friends from all sorts of different ethnic groups and races?

00:35:11.200 And you're also denying any allegations of racism

00:35:14.140 or even ethnic prejudice for that matter.

00:35:16.120 And partly you point to the fact that your English Defence League

00:35:19.140 had different groups of people in it, but also your own friendship.

00:35:21.640 So what makes you convinced that you're not a far right figure?

00:35:26.080 And what is it specifically about immigration that you're trying to object to?

00:35:30.640 I'm not denying it.

00:35:31.900 I'm actually hated by the far right.

00:35:34.120 I'm despised as a race traitor.

00:35:36.160 As I've made comments, Angela Merkel, David Cameron,

00:35:39.980 these were all the leaders at the time of the English Defence League.

00:35:41.960 They all come out and said multiculturalism has failed.

00:35:44.520 I went on record as saying, actually, you're all cowards.

00:35:46.840 Yeah, because what's failed, if we want to admit what's failed, Islam's failed.

00:35:52.480 Sikhism hasn't failed to integrate or assimilate into British society.

00:35:55.600 The Jews haven't failed.

00:35:57.000 St. Lucian's haven't failed.

00:35:58.280 Everyone else, they haven't failed.

00:36:00.120 You are taking a problem that what's failed,

00:36:03.020 and I just speak about my experience from growing up in Luton.

00:36:05.460 And again, I'll set the record straight.

00:36:07.220 Not every Muslim, OK?

00:36:08.620 I'm not saying every Muslim.

00:36:09.980 Some of the best people I've met growing up are Muslim.

00:36:12.020 Some of the people I love and still have relationships are Muslim.

00:36:14.320 But per se, Islam and the community of Islam have looked inward.

00:36:19.760 They've created ghettos, and there is no integration.

00:36:22.120 And I challenge any journalist, any journalist,

00:36:25.140 come to Luton and find me Muslims with non-Muslims.

00:36:27.980 And every time when I was leading the English Defence League

00:36:30.680 and a journalist would come and interview me, I said,

00:36:32.300 you walk through the town and you try and find me Muslims with non-Muslims.

00:36:35.760 You won't find them.

00:36:37.000 You'll have the Muslims and the non-Muslims.

00:36:39.020 Now, we didn't create that.

00:36:40.420 We can't be on our school.

00:36:41.920 I speak about when I grew up.

00:36:43.180 It was the Muslim playground and the non-Muslim playground.

00:36:45.500 So I grew up experiencing this.

00:36:47.600 I experienced the separation, the segregation, the zero assimilation.

00:36:51.760 And I knew something was very, very different.

00:36:54.400 And until, I think in 2011, I was spending 22 weeks of solitary confinement.

00:36:58.640 And I challenge, again, anyone listening to do this.

00:37:01.440 Take the Koran.

00:37:02.200 I was sent in the Koran by a Muslim outreach organisation trying to convert me.

00:37:05.980 So I took the Koran and thought, right, let's look at this.

00:37:08.440 And I opened it.

00:37:09.420 And I challenge any of you to do this.

00:37:10.780 And every time it says, do not be friends with Christians or Jews, just write the verse number.

00:37:16.000 You will have pages and pages of verse numbers.

00:37:19.500 So then what you have is children being brought up.

00:37:22.220 And if I brought my children up and all of us as white people brought our children up to do not be friends with black children,

00:37:29.440 we would see hostility and violence sooner.

00:37:31.500 When you have a superior ideology that teaches them they're better than people based on the colour of their skin or their faith.

00:37:38.440 And that's what Islam is.

00:37:39.300 It's a supremacist ideology.

00:37:40.560 And all of a sudden, when I started dissecting this book, everything I'd seen my entire life growing up made sense.

00:37:46.780 Everything.

00:37:47.860 And these Muslims are being brought up to believe this, to believe that this is the word of God, that this is what they want.

00:37:53.420 That's why we don't have assimilation or integration.

00:37:55.280 So when I talk about the problems, I've only ever spoke.

00:37:57.980 I haven't spoke against immigration, which is why I'm under attack by people who are against total immigration.

00:38:02.820 Quite currently, right now, I believe we need to end immigration.

00:38:05.480 But the whole time I led the English Defence League, I said, no, I'm against Islamic immigration.

00:38:09.900 And that's because you're mixing oil and water and it doesn't work.

00:38:12.340 And I can only speak from experience of what I've seen.

00:38:15.860 The more Islam, the less freedom.

00:38:16.660 Why is it a problem?

00:38:17.900 Let's assume that, at least in part, that your argument is valid and that you did experience the Muslim tendency in Luton to be more segregated compared to the other ethnic groups that you're describing.

00:38:34.860 So I could say, well, that's okay.

00:38:36.740 If people want to associate with their own kind as a consequence of their belief, that's part and parcel of a multicultural vision.

00:38:43.260 And so why is it that you object to it?

00:38:46.920 And why even do you have the temerity to object to it?

00:38:50.380 People can associate with who they want.

00:38:52.680 And so then it's not reasonable for you to call out a specific religion, regardless of what it believes.

00:38:58.460 And so what do you think of an objection like that?

00:39:02.260 Because we have, within that Islamic, within that confined Islamic community, and we've had documentaries go down and speak to Muslims in Luton who said, I've never met a non-Muslim.

00:39:11.400 I've never met one.

00:39:12.080 They're growing up in Luton.

00:39:13.560 They've never met a non-Muslim.

00:39:15.140 So they're going to go through inward looking.

00:39:17.540 And within that community, it's a problem anyway for integration and assimilation.

00:39:21.660 But within that community, and again, I bring on our last episode, I spoke about Al-Majra Deen.

00:39:26.400 Al-Majra Deen are now a prescribed terrorist organization, but they never were.

00:39:30.000 And I try to explain it to members of the Muslim community like this.

00:39:33.380 You've got a close-knit Islamic community.

00:39:35.640 And within that close-knit Islamic community, there's a bunch of activists who are active every day, 25 hours a day, seven days a week.

00:39:42.640 This group are active.

00:39:44.060 And they're teaching all the non-Muslims that they're teaching supremacy and violence against non-Muslims.

00:39:49.600 Because within that community, that's what's happening.

00:39:51.040 Al-Majra Deen, 60% of terrorists, UK Muslims on terrorism charges or in jail for terrorism are ex-members of this group.

00:39:59.380 Now, within that community, if you change it to the white community of Luton, and you have the non-Muslim community,

00:40:06.440 and within there you have a thousand Nazis who have pace tables set up and are continually promoting Nazism,

00:40:13.820 sooner or later, the violence is going to come out of that community.

00:40:16.600 Well, that's what we've experienced.

00:40:18.000 We've experienced something we never even understood.

00:40:19.960 We had to learn about jihad before anyone knew what jihad was, because it was being taught.

00:40:24.860 Jihad was being taught as part and parcel of the Islamic community within my town.

00:40:29.180 So all of these problems, and that's not just that.

00:40:32.220 There's so many problems that come from the community.

00:40:34.220 The hostile view, the mainstream hostile view against women, especially non-Muslim women.

00:40:40.780 Well, those non-Muslim women are my daughter.

00:40:43.600 They're my mum.

00:40:44.540 And they're walking through the streets of Luton.

00:40:46.260 And you've got a community that's promoting a negative view of women, but especially our women.

00:40:52.920 And we look at the Quran, and we look at scripture, we might understand why.

00:40:56.300 But unfortunately, as soon as you try and have that discussion, you're far-right, you're racist, or you're extremist.

00:41:01.020 And the people that are calling you that have no knowledge of Islam.

00:41:03.980 They don't know anything like what they're talking about.

00:41:05.300 They don't know Mohammed's teachings, and you're not even allowed to talk about Mohammed's teachings.

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00:42:44.620 Well, sorry, Tommy.

00:42:48.780 Let me bring Tammy into this for a moment.

00:42:50.960 And so I'm going to introduce her with a couple of different questions.

00:42:55.160 I mean, there are many forces within the Muslim world that are trying to establish something approximating a detente and a peace with the Western world.

00:43:06.540 That's exemplified most particularly with the Abraham Accords.

00:43:10.560 And the Abraham Accords have stayed intact despite what's happened after October 7th and all the activism on the side of Iran, for example, doing everything it possibly can to destabilize the Western universities and to bring out the demise of the peace process that was established under the Trump administration.

00:43:32.680 And so there are positive forces operating within the Muslim community that are trying to bring something approximating peace.

00:43:38.760 And so it's dangerous to segregate Islam as such.

00:43:49.360 You could make this case.

00:43:50.280 It's dangerous to segregate Islam as such because if we can't continue to communicate with the moderates,

00:43:56.760 then the more fundamentalist types that are likely misusing what might be a core religious doctrine to push their fundamentalism and their and their essentially their race hatred and their sadism.

00:44:11.020 And so it's very difficult to walk through that and separate the weak from the trap.

00:44:15.480 Tammy, what I wanted to ask you is like you insisted before we did that first interview that you trusted Tommy Robinson.

00:44:24.480 And I asked you why, and I want you to reiterate that.

00:44:29.040 I also want you to tell me if that's still true.

00:44:31.160 And I want to see if you have some questions that you'd also like to levy Adam.

00:44:35.780 You've watched what's happened in the last month since we did our interview.

00:44:38.640 And so maybe you could reiterate for people why you thought we should do this interview and what drew you to want to talk to Robinson to begin with.

00:44:47.720 And while what your conclusions have been given, what we've gone through in the last month.

00:44:53.180 Well, first of all, I'd say that I'm for free speech.

00:44:56.260 And I see Tommy as putting a light to issues that nobody else will talk about, and that's important.

00:45:07.820 And he's also outlined his experience personally that has been his guiding light to, it looks like, what has been his guiding light in what he has done.

00:45:19.280 And I guess my question would be, why is it that Muslim culture has become so strong?

00:45:29.140 And I know that there's lots of people there, but what happened to the Christian?

00:45:34.400 What happened to the Christian word and the Christian values that uphold our societies?

00:45:45.460 I think there's a, from my point of view, I think that there's been a, you know, a disillusion of our Christian values.

00:45:53.620 And so this other, more aggressive force has come in and taken our place, and taken the place of what used to be a place of Christianity.

00:46:08.140 And so I think that it's complicated.

00:46:10.340 So I think it's complicated.

00:46:11.600 Yes, I think that immigration isn't as orderly as it was.

00:46:15.580 So now, you know, people are getting into, not just the UK, but into Canada, into the United States, into Sweden, into lots of different places, and people aren't using their common sense to regulate that.

00:46:34.320 And their faith.

00:46:35.500 Common sense and faith, well, common sense and faith go together in some way, because it means you're using your intuition, which is using something that's smarter than you to find your way, that you're not guiding, but you're finding, you know, it from within your heart to do what's best.

00:46:55.820 And everybody here is now so self-guided that I think we're getting in each other's way, way more often.

00:47:03.680 And I can't speak for, I've looked at the Quran some, and I am making my way through it.

00:47:10.720 And I agree with you, Tommy, that we should be reading that book, because everybody should know, if we're not going to read the Bible, let's read the Quran.

00:47:20.980 I mean, we have to know what we're up against.

00:47:23.900 And we've left the Bible.

00:47:27.200 We've left the Bible, and we're not going by those values anymore.

00:47:31.440 And so we're going to be lost, and those policemen and those government officials, who are those people?

00:47:37.500 Who are those people that they're not willing to stand up for British values, and they're not willing to tell the truth?

00:47:46.280 Like, what's going on with them?

00:47:47.620 Why don't they have the conviction to be, I mean, these are their families and their communities that are going to suffer if they don't stand up.

00:47:57.900 So what's going on that Tommy has to shout from the rooftops what's going on with the Muslims?

00:48:06.140 Okay, so let me take that apart a little bit.

00:48:08.240 So from what I understand, well, you made reference to what might be a broader social problem, which is, well, there is an incursion of fundamentalism, let's say.

00:48:18.660 And that's coming in arguably primarily from the fundamentalist Muslim side, and it's making major inroads in places like Luton, and people like Tommy are at the forefront of that.

00:48:29.360 And so you're highlighting the fact that it's a tremendous weakness in the West, perhaps primarily on the faith front, that is allowing that, and that we should look to that and attempt to address it.

00:48:42.180 And that you feel that Tommy has found himself and also adopted the position of being the canary in the coal mine with regards to that warning.

00:48:53.520 So, okay, so I have another question for you, Tammy.

00:48:56.480 It's like your personal response to Tommy is also interesting to me.

00:49:02.180 I mean, you know, we put ourselves, you and I, we put ourselves at substantial risk as a consequence of that interview, and I don't regret that a bit.

00:49:10.300 I think it was the right thing to do.

00:49:12.160 But that was partly based on your intuition that we could trust this man, and so I'm still curious.

00:49:18.640 So let's divide this into two things.

00:49:20.180 I'm curious about why you trust him, and if that's still the case, despite all the things that have been levied against him, let's say, some of which we haven't gone into yet.

00:49:29.920 And then, Tommy, I'm also interested in your comments about Tammy's sense that the West has allowed itself to be weak in the way that has produced the situation that we're describing, and that we bear, you know, as Westerners, we bear a tremendous amount of responsibility for that.

00:49:45.620 So, Tammy, you start first.

00:49:47.060 Well, first of all, I think that the working class in the UK are trying to stand up and to protect, and the rest of the people in the UK, the people who are more of an upper class, are hesitant, are hesitant to join or even support that kind of movement.

00:50:13.080 And that's a question, and that's definitely a question.

00:50:17.980 You know, I'm from a working class place, and so are you, Jordan, and I was raised in a working class town.

00:50:26.860 And so, I think that what Tommy is doing isn't foreign to me.

00:50:34.400 His response isn't foreign to me.

00:50:37.240 It seems like something that if we had, you know, friends in high school, one of our high school friends would have been doing that, or maybe even ourselves would have been doing that if we were in that situation.

00:50:49.480 So, I can see myself in Tommy in a way that makes me less sceptical of what he's doing, because I can see the necessity for speaking up and telling people what's going on so that they have a chance.

00:51:08.400 Tommy, yep, I think so.

00:51:10.260 Tommy, you got any questions about that?

00:51:12.020 Yeah, my point is, look at what you've faced, or look at the attacks.

00:51:17.380 Has anyone actually gone for anything we've said and drawn a factual, said this is factually incorrect?

00:51:23.260 No.

00:51:23.920 No one's challenging the discussion.

00:51:26.360 Well, and I would also point out, Tommy, that, you know, you talked about the corruption of the judiciary.

00:51:32.440 You know, I'm in trouble with my college licensing board in Canada for saying things that people, you know,

00:51:37.920 this, the trouble that I've, that I, Tammy and I have encountered as a consequence of interviewing you is a variant of trouble that we're quite familiar with.

00:51:46.900 My governing board, the College of Psychologists, is doing everything they can to re-educate me and to suspend my license,

00:51:52.980 and the judiciary in Canada has essentially refused to hear any of my appeals.

00:51:57.260 And so, you know, so I sit there wondering whether I'm far right and didn't know it,

00:52:04.220 or if I'm in the same kind of situation that you're in and facing a judiciary and a political system that's become corrupted in some manner that's so fundamental that it's kind of a miracle.

00:52:14.720 Corrupted, corrupted, and it's, well, if someone has a problem with what we said, tell me what it was that I said that was wrong.

00:52:20.600 And this is the problem.

00:52:21.520 They don't, and this, and the reason being that they want to attack, if they attack, why, why aren't people speaking up?

00:52:27.740 I think you said, Tammy, why aren't there more people speaking up?

00:52:29.920 Well, look, look what they do to anyone that does.

00:52:32.200 Do you know how many whistleblowers there were that attempted to talk up during the grooming scandal?

00:52:36.800 We found out once it all become knowledgeable, they were destroyed.

00:52:40.460 They had their reputations destroyed.

00:52:42.220 People within, people within charities in those towns and cities, and people within the police force that attempted to speak,

00:52:48.360 had their lives and reputations destroyed.

00:52:50.320 So what's happening to me, you get to hear my story.

00:52:53.760 Do you know how many people this is happening to that you don't get to hear?

00:52:56.100 Across, and that's why the weaponisation of the judiciary, you hear my story, you hear Donald Trump's story,

00:53:01.660 people can make their mind up on what it is.

00:53:03.320 Do you know how many people are being silenced across the West by that judiciary?

00:53:06.580 How many people are having, like, injunctions put against them or are being bankrupt and the targets?

00:53:13.280 I actually think, Jordan, that since we last, and Tammy, since we last spoke, everything that's happened since has totally proven everything I said.

00:53:23.240 In the matter of fact of, what have they said by the headlines that I instigated the riots?

00:53:27.900 That's what they're saying.

00:53:28.740 The British media have said, and what they did is they came and found out where I was with my family, and then they made me front-page news.

00:53:37.440 They actually doxed where my children were in the resort.

00:53:41.800 They said that I fled the country and that I was in hiding.

00:53:44.960 That holiday was booked for 18 months.

00:53:46.980 That holiday was booked for 18 months.

00:53:48.960 Now, they said that, and they put me as the instigator for the riots.

00:53:52.420 And that was published everywhere.

00:53:54.840 And then characters like Piers Morgan, you know, earlier you said there was allegations that it was a Syrian.

00:54:01.280 I never shared those allegations.

00:54:03.420 So there's not one person that can point to anything I shared that was factually incorrect about the Southport killer,

00:54:09.340 yet they want to say that I'm the instigation of the riots.

00:54:12.040 So Nigel Farage shared that it was a Syrian refugee.

00:54:15.080 I didn't.

00:54:15.940 I didn't share any information until I had the knowledge of who it was.

00:54:20.020 So that no one can levy that against me.

00:54:21.900 Piers Morgan said I'd done that, factually incorrect again.

00:54:25.120 But then I'm not the one with the media.

00:54:26.840 They're the one with the mainstream media.

00:54:28.480 So the mainstream media have gone out.

00:54:30.300 What I've done is I took what I've said and what my advice has been.

00:54:35.500 And do you know what they use?

00:54:36.480 In the Daily Mail article that put me as the bearer and the instigator of the violence,

00:54:42.020 the example they gave of my inflammatory tweets was mass deportation is needed.

00:54:47.380 So once again, what we've seen, I'm the scapegoat.

00:54:50.340 I'm facing total imprisonment, calling for my extradition, terrorism charges.

00:54:55.560 There's not one single shed of evidence.

00:54:58.060 Not one person can point to what I've said or what I've done, whether it be a tweet or a comment that instigated violence.

00:55:04.920 In fact, all of the evidence is the total opposite.

00:55:07.620 So luckily, the people who have seen my videos, which is millions and millions on X, they know that they're being lied to.

00:55:13.540 But I don't think the authorities or the government or all the powers that be care about that because they have the power of the media.

00:55:19.800 So they continually every day.

00:55:21.640 If you go on now and Google Tommy Robinson, look how many negative stories there are about me today.

00:55:25.480 Every single day, since I put 100,000 people on the street, since I had a massive peaceful rally,

00:55:31.860 every single day I've become under complete and utter onslaught by the media without one shred of evidence.

00:55:39.240 Let me delve into some of those again because I want to go through everything that we've gathered that people are coming after you about.

00:55:47.580 And so I'm just going to read the listing of allegations that we've gathered.

00:55:55.340 Convictions for assaults, public order offenses and mortgage fraud.

00:56:00.480 Allegedly violated court orders leading to imprisonment in 2018.

00:56:04.520 We talked about that a little bit in the previous discussion.

00:56:07.520 Defamation of 15-year-old Syrian refugee 2021.

00:56:10.960 Allegedly linked to the 2017 Finsbury Park mosque attack.

00:56:15.380 Exited Britain with an Irish passport.

00:56:18.320 Banned from multiple social media platforms, including Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram,

00:56:23.320 for violating their policies on hate speech and incitement to violence.

00:56:26.620 Well, I was banned on Twitter, so, you know, join the club.

00:56:30.320 Accusations of mis...

00:56:31.260 In fact, I think you and I were reinstated at about exactly the same time.

00:56:35.120 Accusations of misleading and inaccurate reporting.

00:56:38.060 Robinson has been criticized for spreading misinformation and making inaccurate claims in his reports and documentaries,

00:56:44.660 particularly regarding the grooming gang scandals.

00:56:46.880 So, we could start with convictions for assault, public order offenses, and mortgage fraud.

00:56:51.980 Maybe we could do this, Tommy.

00:56:53.740 I mean...

00:56:54.140 Let's do this.

00:56:54.660 Like, if you look back and...

00:56:56.160 Let's do this.

00:56:56.660 Okay.

00:56:56.720 If you look back at your past, I mean, what do you think you've done that hasn't been right,

00:57:04.740 that has increased the probability that you're going to be the target of these sorts of allegations?

00:57:11.180 I've opened my mouth...

00:57:11.660 So, there's the mortgage fraud, the public order offenses.

00:57:14.260 Let's walk through that.

00:57:15.600 Let's walk through them.

00:57:16.560 Let's walk through them.

00:57:17.540 Bearing in mind what you've witnessed in the last seven days,

00:57:20.200 that British pensioners are being put to jail for gesturing their arms aggressively at a demonstration.

00:57:25.100 That's what everyone does at a demonstration, but they're getting 20 months.

00:57:27.600 A man who said, Allah, Allah, who the... is Allah, just got 18 months for saying that, yeah?

00:57:32.140 So, what you've witnessed is not actual crimes, but you've witnessed being people sent to jail to set an example, yeah?

00:57:38.960 And I'll give an example again.

00:57:40.900 Muslims drove from Manchester down to Golders Green, the Jewish area of London.

00:57:45.320 They drove through on a tannoy system out of their car, saying,

00:57:48.100 we're going to rape your daughters, no prosecution.

00:57:51.280 The leader of Hizp At-Tahir stood on our capital city under a banner calling for Muslim armies

00:57:56.020 and demanded jihad in the name of Islam, no conviction.

00:58:00.680 So, what the country has seen, and I'll go through my experiences,

00:58:04.720 let's start on the mortgage fraud, Jordan.

00:58:06.980 When I started my activism in 2009, between me and my wife, we had seven properties,

00:58:12.380 two businesses and seven properties.

00:58:14.620 All of my mortgages were 100% legit.

00:58:17.060 Now, what they'd done is they went and got a five-year investigation,

00:58:20.820 and in their warrants, they went through my mum's accounts, my dad's accounts,

00:58:23.880 every family member, bank accounts.

00:58:26.540 Now, what they got on my brother-in-law, my brother-in-law who was 21 or 22 at the time,

00:58:30.440 yeah, he bought his first property.

00:58:32.480 Now, when he bought his first property, the banks used to have...

00:58:36.140 they used to encourage self-certification mortgages.

00:58:39.420 So, it was encouraged by the banks.

00:58:41.480 So, basically, if you want to get a mortgage, as long as you put down 20% deposit,

00:58:45.280 you could just self-certify how much you earn.

00:58:48.160 You don't have to show your wage.

00:58:49.360 You don't have to show your contract from your company.

00:58:51.200 You self-certify.

00:58:52.460 Now, as I said, I had seven properties.

00:58:54.480 I was buying repossessions and doing them up and keeping them with remortgaging the money.

00:58:58.720 There's no question about any of my mortgages, yeah?

00:59:01.040 So, my brother-in-law, he...

00:59:03.040 I lent him £20,000 as a young man to get his first property.

00:59:07.220 He bought a property.

00:59:08.720 He said it was £80,000.

00:59:10.780 He bought it.

00:59:11.700 He put £20,000 down, £60,000.

00:59:14.020 He spent nine months doing it up.

00:59:15.960 He sold it nine months later, yeah?

00:59:18.040 So, he buys the property.

00:59:19.540 He said he earned £20,000 a year, but really, he earned £12,000.

00:59:23.240 So, he buys it.

00:59:24.380 He gets a mortgage.

00:59:25.440 He sells it.

00:59:26.480 The mortgage company are paid back.

00:59:28.380 Three or four years later, after this, they come in.

00:59:32.400 They go for all the forms and they say, well, he lied on his mortgage form, yeah?

00:59:36.320 Which the whole country lied on their self-certification mortgage forms.

00:59:40.000 It was encouraged.

00:59:41.340 They had no evidence against me.

00:59:43.540 So, he lied on his form.

00:59:45.260 What he lies on his form has nothing to do with me.

00:59:47.540 So, they get him and then they say that when he sells the property,

00:59:50.740 so he buys it for £80, he sells it for £120,000 after doing the property up after nine months.

00:59:55.080 He makes a profit.

00:59:55.820 The mortgage company are paid back, so there's no one been defrauded.

00:59:59.800 They then say that the profit then becomes the proceeds of crime because he lied on his mortgage form.

01:00:05.840 What do they do?

01:00:06.620 They nick him and they nick me.

01:00:08.700 They then charge me on tax evasion.

01:00:11.120 They go through my companies.

01:00:12.640 They charge me on tax evasion.

01:00:13.900 They say, I owed the bank.

01:00:15.140 I owed them £137,000 tax.

01:00:18.300 They hold me on these conditions for four years, Jordan.

01:00:21.460 They freeze my assets.

01:00:23.200 They close.

01:00:23.760 I had two successful companies.

01:00:24.960 Both of them were closed down, yeah?

01:00:26.760 So, people understand the truth of what went on with the mortgage fraud.

01:00:30.980 I had no mortgage fraud.

01:00:32.280 They got me on tax.

01:00:33.960 I got not guilty within two hours of the tax investigation.

01:00:37.440 What they then done in court was they listed my wife to stand trial for tax.

01:00:42.420 Now, no one knows what my wife looks like or my children, even though the Daily Mail tried to expose them last week.

01:00:47.800 No one knows.

01:00:48.420 So, I can't walk down the street in the UK, yeah, without being prepared to fight.

01:00:53.000 My wife can.

01:00:54.180 So, they then put her on trial.

01:00:56.500 Then they pull me out of the court case.

01:00:58.600 They sit me down and say, plead guilty to these charges.

01:01:01.960 We drop your wife.

01:01:03.280 We drop your other family members.

01:01:05.080 So, I took a plea deal.

01:01:06.700 And I took a plea deal that got me 18 months in prison for a mortgage that had nothing to do with me, where a bank lost no money.

01:01:12.340 So, when people want a list, remember, if you look now, when you look, and it frustrates me because I've never been tried by a jury, Jordan, all the other allegations you're going to read, look what they say in there.

01:01:24.080 I lied about a Syrian refugee.

01:01:25.980 Watch my documentary, Silence.

01:01:27.540 I didn't lie about anything.

01:01:28.520 I told the truth.

01:01:29.700 They lied.

01:01:30.660 They continuously lie.

01:01:32.220 Now, I'm not saying I'm perfect.

01:01:34.120 The assault charge, and again, this is all documented, the assault charges.

01:01:38.660 I'm leading the English Defence League at the time.

01:01:40.440 And every time we say we're against racism and we're not far right, the media say we are.

01:01:45.760 So, we had a problem with certain far right nationalist groups trying to attach themselves to our organisation.

01:01:52.220 There's actually a film that was made by Channel 4.

01:01:56.560 And when I sit down on the coach and they say, what do we expect today from the demonstration?

01:02:00.560 I say, I'm going to kick all hell off.

01:02:02.580 And they said, what do you mean?

01:02:03.420 I said, we need a clear out, yeah?

01:02:04.940 So, I got on the stage at a demonstration.

01:02:07.540 And I'm telling you this because I had no other choice.

01:02:10.680 I'm leading a street protest movement.

01:02:12.500 That's what I was leading.

01:02:13.520 And we needed a clear out because the far right were continually trying to attach themselves to our movement.

01:02:18.040 So, I got on the stage at this.

01:02:19.760 And this is on a documentary.

01:02:21.260 I hold a Sikh lad's hand, Gurumit Singh.

01:02:23.900 And I say, if you're in the crowd and you don't like what you see here, you're in the wrong place.

01:02:28.520 This is our England, yeah?

01:02:30.100 Not your England.

01:02:31.200 Not what you want for it.

01:02:32.560 So, show yourself.

01:02:33.700 And I name a far right group that were called the North East Sinfadels.

01:02:37.840 I say, where are you?

01:02:39.160 You go against everything we stand for, but you're in amongst our thousands of supporters.

01:02:43.920 There's a little group of you, but you keep coming in our crowd and we don't want you here.

01:02:47.860 So, I call them out.

01:02:48.980 Now, what I do is I leave the stage and I knock one of them out.

01:02:52.680 And that was to cause a separation of the groups.

01:02:55.580 And it totally worked.

01:02:56.780 So, when they talk about my assault, they don't want to explain it was for a far right Nazi wearing a Combat 18 t-shirt.

01:03:02.500 They don't give you the context of what it was.

01:03:04.660 Now, that was us making a conservative.

01:03:07.140 I had to do that as a leader of an organisation when Nazis were trying to come on the streets with us.

01:03:11.780 So, I let them know you're not coming.

01:03:13.300 And then I made a video afterwards, Jordan, saying if anyone has a problem with that,

01:03:17.360 if any of you, next time we come to us on the streets with you, it's on.

01:03:21.720 And it's on from English men who don't want you there.

01:03:24.280 They never come on the streets again, Jordan, yeah?

01:03:26.220 They had masqueraded themselves within our movement.

01:03:29.180 So, that's the assault charge.

01:03:31.080 So, when they give this list of charges, one of the others is the mortgage fraud, the contempt proceedings.

01:03:37.280 What you're going to soon read, Jordan, on my Wikipedia page is that I got two years in jail,

01:03:42.280 which I face now, because I lied about a Syrian refugee.

01:03:46.100 Watch the film.

01:03:47.060 I didn't lie.

01:03:48.160 I told the truth.

01:03:49.520 So, yes, they've tried to set an example about me.

01:03:52.200 Are our courts weaponised?

01:03:53.880 What have you seen in the last seven days?

01:03:55.420 We have seen knife crime out of control, migrant gangs out of control, jihadists out of control,

01:04:00.220 40,000 Muslims on a terror watch list, and they manage to clear our prisons out to open

01:04:05.160 spaces for pensioners who might have said something on Facebook?

01:04:08.360 That's what you...

01:04:08.860 And then they've live-streamed those court cases?

01:04:11.560 They've let the...

01:04:12.260 What you've witnessed in the last seven days is to terrify the British public into remaining silent.

01:04:18.260 You better shut up while we open your borders.

01:04:20.620 You better shut up while we're bringing hostile people into community.

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01:05:28.360 That's shopify.com slash jbp.

01:05:30.740 I think Constantine Kissin has pointed out from Trigonometry that there's been more than

01:05:38.740 3,000 convictions in the UK for, essentially for Facebook crimes.

01:05:44.840 So this has been building for a long time.

01:05:45.780 There was only 600 in Russia.

01:05:47.080 There was only 600 in Russia.

01:05:48.960 Right, right.

01:05:49.600 So this has been building for a long time.

01:05:51.400 And, you know, I also think that what happened to our interview on YouTube is emblematic of

01:05:57.020 exactly this proclivity to define certain kinds of speech as criminal, as far right,

01:06:03.460 and to suppress it entirely.

01:06:06.040 Tammy, one of the things you and I talked about leading up to this interview was

01:06:10.100 the gathering of the kind of information that I'm torturing Tommy about right now.

01:06:14.160 And we should talk about allegations linked to the 2017 Finsbury Park mosque attack.

01:06:20.960 But Tammy, are there other things, other questions that we haven't addressed that you have on your list?

01:06:25.760 Well, I'm kind of curious about the passport, the Irish passport.

01:06:30.480 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:31.040 Can I quickly, do you know when I just said, so on my mortgage fraud case, I get sent to jail on

01:06:35.820 mortgage fraud.

01:06:36.740 I leave the English Defence League.

01:06:38.600 And this is factual.

01:06:39.520 Yeah, no one can deny this.

01:06:40.680 I get taken into a prison cell.

01:06:42.520 I'm sat in prison.

01:06:43.460 I'm in Winchester prison.

01:06:44.600 I've been violently battered.

01:06:45.940 I lost my teeth in Woodhill.

01:06:47.660 So I'm sitting in Winchester.

01:06:49.060 I then get a legal meeting.

01:06:50.740 I go to my legal meeting.

01:06:51.800 And I go sit, and this is all, I sit down in my legal meeting and two young men come

01:06:56.120 in and they're younger than me.

01:06:57.340 And then you wouldn't think they're police officers.

01:07:00.100 And they said, no one knows we're in here visiting you.

01:07:02.800 No one.

01:07:03.600 Only the head governor.

01:07:04.980 Yeah.

01:07:05.160 So when you go back to the wing of prisoners, you can say whatever you want as to who's

01:07:08.720 come to see you here.

01:07:09.800 I said, OK.

01:07:10.860 They said, why aren't we from the Metropolitan Intelligence Bureau, MIB.

01:07:15.500 What's the MIB?

01:07:16.540 It's a secretive unit within Scotland Yard.

01:07:18.660 But, OK, the reasons you've got for leaving the English Defence League, if you're true

01:07:23.760 and you want to help your country, which is what you've said, and you're opposed to

01:07:26.800 these far-right ideologies, we're asking you, when you leave prison, will you work for

01:07:30.840 us?

01:07:31.940 I said, what do you mean work for you?

01:07:33.380 I said, just left hand not know what right hand's doing.

01:07:35.640 You've just absolutely tried to destroy my life for so long.

01:07:38.440 So I refuse.

01:07:39.480 And they say, where do you, and I give the recordings of this, where do you see yourself

01:07:44.140 in five years' time?

01:07:45.180 And at this time in my life, I'd had enough about talking about Islam.

01:07:49.360 I've been battered in jail.

01:07:50.440 I've lost everything.

01:07:51.360 I've been to jail.

01:07:52.500 I was in prison.

01:07:54.020 But I'd managed to hold on to the seven properties that my wife and me had.

01:07:59.340 So I said, when I get out of jail, they said, what's your plans?

01:08:02.080 I said, well, I'm going to sell my properties and I'm going to go back into building.

01:08:04.900 They said, where will you be in five years' time?

01:08:06.280 I said, I'll be a multimillionaire.

01:08:07.720 I'll be a successful young man and a multimillionaire.

01:08:10.400 They said, OK, well, we're asking you again.

01:08:12.120 Will you agree to work with us?

01:08:14.080 Will you contemplate?

01:08:15.080 I said, not a chance.

01:08:16.140 I'm no one's slave.

01:08:17.280 I'm not working.

01:08:18.300 I'm not a grass.

01:08:18.980 I'm not working for anyone.

01:08:20.340 I leave prison.

01:08:21.660 So I come out of prison.

01:08:22.880 I'm driving.

01:08:23.860 And again, I put the recordings.

01:08:25.880 Anyone who, you might be able to find this speech, because they try and hide them all.

01:08:29.100 It's called Tommy Robinson, York Free Speech.

01:08:32.520 And I put the recordings in here.

01:08:34.140 So I'm driving in my car and I'm on the motorway.

01:08:36.040 Boom, police come from everywhere.

01:08:37.460 I'm shut down.

01:08:38.480 I'm arrested for burglary.

01:08:40.460 I'm taken in and I'm questioned about a burglary.

01:08:42.580 My head's thinking, what is this all about?

01:08:44.480 Yeah, what is this all about?

01:08:45.880 I get released the next day, bearing in mind I've got nine months of prison license left

01:08:50.000 to do.

01:08:50.620 So I get released.

01:08:51.480 I go home.

01:08:52.740 I get in and my wife says, Winchester Prison's been on the phone.

01:08:55.940 I say, which is where I've just been released from, which is where they made an approach

01:08:59.380 to me in Winchester Prison.

01:09:00.660 So she gives me a phone number.

01:09:02.020 It's 0207.

01:09:03.100 Well, 0207 is London.

01:09:04.220 It's not Winchester.

01:09:05.360 I say, why have they been on the phone?

01:09:06.480 She said, you've left property there.

01:09:07.840 I said, OK.

01:09:08.560 So I ring the number.

01:09:09.820 He says, Tommy, it's Ollie.

01:09:11.480 Ollie from the MIB.

01:09:12.620 I come and saw you in jail.

01:09:14.280 I said, OK.

01:09:15.500 They said, well, you're in a predicament now, aren't you?

01:09:18.300 I said, how am I in a predicament?

01:09:19.960 They said, what's it going to look like if the media get you on a burglary charge?

01:09:23.820 I said, I haven't burgled anywhere.

01:09:24.960 I'm not in a predicament.

01:09:25.840 I haven't left the motorway.

01:09:27.240 They said, OK, well, if you get charged when you answer bail in four weeks time, you're

01:09:31.560 on a licensed recall for nine months.

01:09:33.200 Now, for me, prison's death, possibly, because jihadists control the prison.

01:09:37.140 So I sat there, and I swear to God, I cried my eye.

01:09:39.360 I come off the phone.

01:09:40.120 They said, all you have to do is agree to have a meeting with us.

01:09:43.360 I said, I'm never having a meeting with you.

01:09:45.740 I hung up the phone.

01:09:46.660 I cried my eyes out.

01:09:47.560 I said, what am I meant to do here?

01:09:49.060 What am I meant to do?

01:09:50.140 And if you look at every single terrorist that's gone on to commit acts of jihad in our

01:09:53.960 country, they've all had prior involvement with our security services.

01:09:57.540 The MIB are the security services.

01:09:59.580 Now, they tried to approach me.

01:10:00.700 What happens then is I'm out of jail.

01:10:02.620 I then get a letter after refusing, I get a letter from my lawyer saying they've launched

01:10:07.580 confiscation orders against me, and they want £125,000 off me.

01:10:12.720 Now, the £125,000 comes from the house that was sold by my brother-in-law.

01:10:17.960 Well, he bought it for $80,000 and sells it for $120,000 or $125,000.

01:10:21.620 They want me to pay the entirety of the money.

01:10:24.320 Even though $80,000 or $60,000 was a mortgage, they want me to have to pay it back, even though

01:10:29.220 it had nothing to do with me.

01:10:30.460 So I get a letter, I then get a court date to go to court.

01:10:34.060 I then get contacted again.

01:10:35.660 Tommy, you will never have to pay this money.

01:10:37.340 Come and have a meeting with us.

01:10:38.740 This is blackmailed by the security services.

01:10:40.940 At this time, and I urge any of you to go watch this, I sit down with the lead officer from

01:10:45.480 counter-terrorism.

01:10:46.500 My probation officer for being released from prison was counter-terrorism.

01:10:50.160 Why?

01:10:50.600 Apparently, I was in prison for mortgage fraud.

01:10:52.360 What's that got to do with counter-terrorism?

01:10:53.640 When I got released from prison, all my conditions were not to contact the English Defence League

01:10:57.020 and not to talk about Islam.

01:10:58.200 Well, how is this?

01:10:58.880 What's this got to do with the mortgage fraud I'm supposedly in jail with?

01:11:01.760 So I then sit down with the lead officer of counter-terrorism.

01:11:04.760 I said, you know what?

01:11:05.780 I've got a date to talk at Oxford University.

01:11:08.460 I'm blowing the lid on this.

01:11:10.420 This is blackmailed by the security services to get the blackmailing me in position to work

01:11:15.180 for them.

01:11:15.760 I'm blowing the lid.

01:11:16.980 Two days before I'm due to talk at Oxford University, boom, I'm on my licence recalls.

01:11:21.240 I'm put back in prison for 28 days on a recall.

01:11:23.800 And they used the fact that someone threatened to rape my mum.

01:11:27.420 I went online and posted saying, well, you don't need to look for me because that's what

01:11:30.460 the threat said.

01:11:31.000 And it was on Twitter.

01:11:32.020 I'll be here tomorrow and I'll give where I'd be if you want to come and find me.

01:11:35.360 They used that to licence recall me.

01:11:37.540 I spent 28 days in custody.

01:11:39.440 I come out of jail.

01:11:40.840 I sit down with my probation officer again.

01:11:42.800 I'm pretty stubborn if anyone hasn't noticed.

01:11:44.900 I refuse to back down.

01:11:46.000 So I said, I've arranged to talk at Oxford University.

01:11:48.960 You're not going to stop what I'm doing here.

01:11:50.280 Watch my speech at Oxford University.

01:11:52.960 Do you know how it starts?

01:11:53.800 If you watch it from 2015, the speech, she sits down, they come back to me and they give

01:11:58.900 me a list of things I'm not allowed to talk about or I'll end up in jail.

01:12:01.820 Islam, the police, security services.

01:12:04.620 So I said, so I don't have free speech.

01:12:07.020 Now, if you watch my speech from 2015 at Oxford University, what I say is the speech I wanted

01:12:13.060 to give you, I'm not allowed to give you.

01:12:14.540 I've been threatened with prison if I come and tell you my whole speech was going to be

01:12:18.200 about the British police state and how they operate.

01:12:20.980 And I'm now not allowed to do that.

01:12:22.680 So the security services have been looking since 2015 saying, well, how do we deal with

01:12:26.560 this guy?

01:12:27.120 Yeah, because I sold my house.

01:12:29.920 You know, I paid them £125,000.

01:12:32.160 I paid them £125,000.

01:12:34.140 I had to sell everything and give them £125,000 or be in their pocket forever.

01:12:39.180 And I refuse to be in their pocket.

01:12:40.940 So when we talk about the different cases, that's my mortgage fraud.

01:12:44.140 The passport case, it wasn't actually an Irish passport.

01:12:47.020 I went to America, to your American audience.

01:12:49.760 I apologise for disregarding your laws.

01:12:52.120 But in 2011 or 12, I come to the United States.

01:12:56.860 I landed in 2011.

01:12:58.580 I was detained at JFK airport and I was told on no uncertain terms I'm getting deported back.

01:13:03.260 I got sent back because the British had requested me not to be allowed in.

01:13:07.560 The next year I decided to come.

01:13:09.480 I used my friend's passport.

01:13:11.040 That's where I used my friend's passport.

01:13:12.660 I got entry into America and I gave a speech after a New York State Senator and I recently

01:13:17.680 dug up that speech.

01:13:19.380 And in that speech, I say, I wish someone had come to my hometown 30 years ago and warned

01:13:24.700 us of what was going to happen.

01:13:26.020 Well, I'm here to warn you because I'm not talking about what I've read.

01:13:28.780 I'm talking about what I've seen and lived through open border mass immigration and what's

01:13:32.360 going to happen to the United States of America.

01:13:34.460 I gave a speech.

01:13:35.340 I land back in the UK.

01:13:37.200 I was reminded I spent 22 weeks on solitary confinement for that crime.

01:13:40.700 22 weeks on solitary confinement.

01:13:42.060 So that's the passport case.

01:13:43.980 Was it wrong for me to enter America illegally?

01:13:46.560 Yes, it was.

01:13:47.520 Did I come with a very important message for the United States of America?

01:13:50.480 A massive message that if they'd listened to it in 2011, they might be in a better place

01:13:55.020 to protect the United States of America now.

01:13:56.980 As I said, I can go through every one of these instances.

01:14:00.320 No one can refute these.

01:14:02.620 There's no evidence to refute what I'm saying.

01:14:04.180 In fact, I played the recordings in my York speech of the police interviewing me on burglary.

01:14:10.240 Now, many people, I can have every allegation you want against me.

01:14:13.200 Everyone knows I'm not a house burglar, but they use that to get me in a position.

01:14:17.540 I don't doubt that they're blackmailing Muslims day in, day out, the security services, to

01:14:22.460 act and work in a certain way.

01:14:24.120 I have no doubt at ever the dark powers that play in the British state.

01:14:28.380 And that's what I've spoke openly against.

01:14:29.900 So when I say they don't know how to deal with me, simply, they don't know what to

01:14:34.100 do.

01:14:34.660 And that's why I think now I face two years in prison again.

01:14:37.640 And so tell me about that.

01:14:39.700 Like, so you're out of the country.

01:14:41.660 I don't want to ask you where you are, although maybe you want to enlighten people as to your

01:14:46.800 whereabouts.

01:14:48.060 What is your legal situation at the moment in the UK?

01:14:51.160 And what are your plans?

01:14:52.700 And then, Tam, if you have any other questions, maybe you can follow up after that.

01:14:56.280 So where are you?

01:14:58.420 What's your legal situation?

01:14:59.940 What are your plans at the moment?

01:15:02.100 I'm in Russia.

01:15:03.740 No, I'm only joking.

01:15:05.180 I'm only joking.

01:15:06.920 Have that as headlines yet.

01:15:08.780 I'm not in Russia.

01:15:10.140 My plans, everyone's telling me to run and everyone's telling me not to come home.

01:15:14.420 I'm coming home.

01:15:15.600 I'm not running.

01:15:16.660 I don't believe I'm on trial.

01:15:18.820 I believe the British judiciary is on trial.

01:15:21.060 The problem that they have is 44 million people have watched that film.

01:15:24.240 That means there's 44 million people, including influential people across the world, that

01:15:28.080 know that I told the truth.

01:15:29.500 If they wish to lock me up for that, lock me up.

01:15:32.080 They will lock me up.

01:15:33.000 We've seen what they're doing with the current state of things.

01:15:35.260 Will I be in danger?

01:15:36.140 Yes, I will.

01:15:37.520 Am I worried?

01:15:38.460 Yeah, totally.

01:15:39.380 Totally worried.

01:15:40.780 Worry for me, worry for my family.

01:15:44.060 I'm in court on the 28th and 29th of October.

01:15:47.140 So I currently don't have to be in the UK.

01:15:50.440 I'm, again, something I haven't talked about.

01:15:53.620 In the last seven days, they've knocked out all my, the police have gone to my family's

01:15:57.340 addresses, including my mother and father's, and told them their lives are in danger.

01:16:01.580 So I've had a hell of a lot to deal with.

01:16:04.520 Do you know what it's like sitting somewhere, knowing that you called for calm, knowing that

01:16:08.860 you held a totally peaceful rally twice in a row, knowing that you haven't instigated

01:16:13.080 violence or attacks against mosques, but watching as the entire world's media say you

01:16:16.880 have?

01:16:17.080 There's no evidence to it.

01:16:19.120 No evidence at all.

01:16:20.380 They are putting me in danger.

01:16:21.720 They're putting a target on me.

01:16:23.180 Since then, Somalians, certain Somalians have said they want to kill me.

01:16:27.200 There's been Muslims making videos with machine guns.

01:16:29.980 All of them have been lied to.

01:16:31.600 They resurrected a dead organisation of the English Defence League that hasn't been around

01:16:35.900 for a decade, and they told the entire British Muslim community, they're all about misinformation.

01:16:41.340 They're all about prosecuting people for misinformation.

01:16:44.320 The British government and its politicians and police forces told the whole Muslim community

01:16:49.060 of the UK that the English Defence League was coming to attack their mosques.

01:16:52.500 There is no English Defence League.

01:16:54.460 There hasn't been for a decade.

01:16:55.540 The British public were on the streets, but what they've successfully managed to do by

01:17:00.700 labelling everyone as far right, by putting an ideological spin on the reason people are

01:17:06.800 angry, they haven't once had to talk about open border mass immigration.

01:17:10.680 They haven't once even had to address why people are angry.

01:17:13.520 It's just they're angry because they're far right and they're racist.

01:17:16.060 No.

01:17:16.720 Yeah.

01:17:16.820 And they've had a total successful campaign by the government.

01:17:21.300 If you look at what they've done, there was an uprising on the streets of the UK.

01:17:25.020 And rather than have to address one of those issues, the Labour Party, not one of they had

01:17:29.260 to address, what they've instead done is turn it on the British public, then have show trials

01:17:34.120 in order to intimidate and silence the British public into saying, you do not get angry.

01:17:38.520 This has been our January 6th moment.

01:17:40.260 And right on the end of us having the most successful cultural revolution organisation

01:17:47.440 in the country seen, they've just blocked it, totally blocked it, used the mass media,

01:17:53.260 used the politicians, used their weapons to totally deceive and lie.

01:17:57.800 And again, I ask, if I've done all these things, and I keep asking Piers Morgan, I know he was

01:18:02.020 on the show with him last week, why don't you sit down with me, Piers, and show me where

01:18:06.080 I've instigated violence or attacks against mosques.

01:18:08.100 Show me what I've said that's encouraged violence.

01:18:10.560 Do you know what?

01:18:11.300 Do you know what?

01:18:12.060 I've heard one news reporter say, well, he said that there was attacks by Somalians against

01:18:17.360 a woman in Ipswich.

01:18:18.560 Yeah, that was a Times newspaper.

01:18:20.040 Yeah, I quoted the Times newspaper.

01:18:21.740 How dare I?

01:18:22.900 So no one's even been able to show me what I've said that's misinformation, because I haven't.

01:18:28.200 I wasn't part of the campaign to push it was a Syrian refugee.

01:18:31.080 I remained silent on that fact.

01:18:32.800 In fact, I come out and corrected certain falsehoods.

01:18:35.520 Yeah, and I, but again, what the people need to understand is, in the seven days prior to

01:18:42.980 the riots, seven days prior to the riots, I don't know if you're aware that today there's

01:18:47.460 been a terrorist attack.

01:18:48.760 Will I get done for misinformation in that?

01:18:51.200 A, okay, a migrant has gone and stabbed a bishop walking out of an army barracks in the

01:18:55.580 Republic of Ireland whilst muttering about the Irish army's involvement in the Middle East.

01:18:59.120 That's what's come out right now, today, in Galway, I believe, in Ireland.

01:19:03.520 Now, in the seven days prior, and this is very important that people understand what

01:19:07.520 built up the frustrations of the British public, yeah?

01:19:10.300 We've watched since October 7th as Hamas have took over the capital city, calls for jihad

01:19:14.480 by mosques and imams, desecration of war memorials, no arrests.

01:19:17.880 We're continually told by the police we can't arrest people for burning flags.

01:19:21.120 This is freedom of the speech.

01:19:22.520 They've committed no crimes.

01:19:23.560 So we've watched all of that, and then we sit and we watch as a migrant gets off a

01:19:28.280 motorbike, he's been in the country six months, he waits for an army officer in uniform, he

01:19:33.320 doesn't attack anyone who's not in uniform, even though people who aren't in uniform are

01:19:36.280 there, and he butchers that army officer.

01:19:38.580 This doesn't even make lead news.

01:19:40.180 I remember making a video the next day saying, why is it, why am I not watching this on the

01:19:44.060 news?

01:19:44.560 An army officer has been attacked in full uniform and stabbed to pieces.

01:19:47.760 It's not even making the news.

01:19:49.400 What's going on?

01:19:50.180 And then we get told, of course, it's mental health.

01:19:53.560 So that incident is sidelined as mental health.

01:19:56.740 The British public are watching because we're able to tell them, actually, an army officer

01:19:59.900 has been attacked in a ferocious knifing.

01:20:02.500 His wife comes out of the house and jumps on the man that's attacking him.

01:20:05.840 The man that's attacking him doesn't stab his wife.

01:20:08.040 He continues stabbing the officer.

01:20:09.400 The only person he attacks is in a military uniform.

01:20:11.640 Very similar to what happened to Lee Rigby when he was beheaded by Michael Adobalajo.

01:20:15.380 They didn't attack the bystanders in the street because they said that they're not the

01:20:18.640 targets.

01:20:19.080 The military are the targets for the British involvement in Muslim lands.

01:20:22.100 So this looks very similar.

01:20:24.600 Why don't I believe that the police and government, why they tell us it's mental health?

01:20:29.580 And again, anyone listening to this, go on Google now and type in Russell Square attack.

01:20:35.980 You will see an attack in Russell Square.

01:20:38.300 A Muslim goes into his mosque in the morning, says he wants to kill non-Muslims.

01:20:41.520 They don't report him to the police.

01:20:44.160 They say a prayer for him.

01:20:45.360 What he then does, he leaves.

01:20:47.420 He leaves the Muslim community.

01:20:49.140 So he don't come out with a mental attack and start stabbing anyone.

01:20:52.640 He leaves the Muslim community.

01:20:53.920 He travels to Russell Square.

01:20:55.220 He stabs seven non-Muslims.

01:20:57.680 He murders an American citizen who's a tourist.

01:21:01.540 He gets stabbed to death.

01:21:02.800 In between each of these attacks, he shout, Allah Akbar.

01:21:05.900 Now try and find this on the terrorist attack list.

01:21:07.860 You won't because it wasn't deemed a terrorist attack.

01:21:10.400 It was an incident of mental health like so many others.

01:21:13.760 And then when they have these mental attacks, they don't go and kill anyone that's Muslim.

01:21:18.180 There is non-Muslims that are killed.

01:21:19.600 So we don't believe them.

01:21:21.080 So this happens.

01:21:22.400 Then we have the riots up in Leeds, where basically a Romanian child went into hospital

01:21:30.440 with a fractured skull.

01:21:31.520 Now we have protections for children, where if there's questions about the parenting,

01:21:38.220 which I don't believe the parents were at home when this child had a fractured skull,

01:21:41.800 so they see it as neglect.

01:21:43.680 They went in to take the children as protection.

01:21:46.380 So they take the children.

01:21:47.720 As they do that in this close-knit Muslim and Romanian gypsy community,

01:21:51.760 the Muslims and the Romanians, both of them, because there's evidence it was both of them,

01:21:55.340 come out and burn police cars, buses, and attack the police.

01:21:58.780 Now the images that the British public watched were as the police run away.

01:22:03.180 They didn't get their dogs out, horses out.

01:22:05.460 They didn't come in with batons.

01:22:06.660 They literally legged it and left them to burn the estate.

01:22:09.560 Now as they burn the estate, an English mother comes out of her house,

01:22:13.240 went the next night when all the crowds there again, and starts saying,

01:22:16.420 will you please go in your houses?

01:22:17.880 Stop causing the problems.

01:22:18.940 I have to live here.

01:22:20.000 The police arrest the English mother.

01:22:21.540 They take her away.

01:22:22.820 So what we've seen, and then the Romanian gypsies make a statement saying,

01:22:27.580 unless the children are given back tonight,

01:22:29.920 you are going to talk about these riots for 100 years in this country.

01:22:33.360 Now as soon as they said that, I put a post out on X saying,

01:22:35.860 guarantee they give the kids back.

01:22:37.280 I know they're going to, because this is what works in Britain.

01:22:40.220 By that late at night, the children are given back to the parents.

01:22:43.740 There's no riots.

01:22:44.740 All the gypsies and all the Muslims go off the streets.

01:22:47.000 So this is what the public are watching.

01:22:50.100 Then, all in this quick seven days,

01:22:52.360 then what we see is a Muslim at Manchester airport is kicked in the head.

01:22:56.840 You may have seen it go viral.

01:22:58.240 He's kicked in the head by a police officer whilst laying on the floor.

01:23:01.860 It doesn't look great.

01:23:03.000 Yeah, it looks ferocious by the police officer.

01:23:05.340 But we have no context as to what happens before that.

01:23:08.540 Now what we then see are thousands of Muslims target Rochdale Police Station,

01:23:12.900 where the Muslims have been arrested.

01:23:15.140 And we then find out three officers have been injured,

01:23:17.460 including a police woman who's had a broken nose.

01:23:20.880 So the Muslims come to the police station.

01:23:22.560 They attack the police station.

01:23:24.160 There's not a police officer in sight.

01:23:25.740 There's no dogs.

01:23:26.600 There's no horses.

01:23:27.540 There's no riot shield.

01:23:28.880 Literally, the Muslims are given free reign.

01:23:30.800 We then hear Muslim commentator after commentator in the UK

01:23:33.980 threaten the establishment and say that they better prosecute the police officer.

01:23:40.020 Then the police come out and give a statement saying they've released the Muslims.

01:23:43.640 They're released.

01:23:44.600 They're not remanded in jail.

01:23:45.900 Even though you've seen all these people being remanded for Facebook posts,

01:23:48.900 they're released.

01:23:50.680 And then they say a criminal investigation has been opened against them.

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01:25:13.000 Police officer.

01:25:14.080 So they give the Muslim community what they're demanding.

01:25:16.440 The next day, we see the video released of what happened prior to him getting kicked in the head.

01:25:21.420 Guess what happened?

01:25:22.100 The Muslims violently attacked the police in unprovoked attack.

01:25:26.260 I mean, punching and beating police officers,

01:25:28.860 which is a straightaway you'd get remanded if you do that.

01:25:31.500 How are they out on the streets?

01:25:33.180 And then the police had already give a statement saying they've been released

01:25:36.100 because of insufficient evidence.

01:25:38.000 Well, now we're watching a video.

01:25:39.440 You had the evidence.

01:25:40.980 You were about to sacrifice the police officer who actually done a fabulous job.

01:25:46.220 Literally, he gets attacked from behind.

01:25:48.380 He pulls the man down who's been tasered and instantly kicks him.

01:25:51.620 He didn't even have a second to think, yeah?

01:25:54.240 And he's an armed response police officer.

01:25:55.980 So these Muslims violently attack him, could have got hold of their guns.

01:25:59.500 So the public have watched all of this and they're asking the questions as to,

01:26:02.720 why did you release them?

01:26:04.640 Why are you prosecuting the police officer that done nothing wrong?

01:26:07.500 It's the whole situation again from the United States.

01:26:11.660 It's the whole situation with George Floyd.

01:26:13.860 They've surrendered and they've got the police officer over for a lawful arrest.

01:26:17.900 Whether it looked bad or not, it was within the law.

01:26:20.440 And that's what they've done to this police officer.

01:26:22.240 So this all happens.

01:26:23.700 What message of the British government told the country?

01:26:26.660 If you riot, we'll listen.

01:26:28.340 That's what they told them.

01:26:29.540 And then an attack happens straight after this.

01:26:32.920 So you have to understand the prelude to what's happened, yeah?

01:26:36.000 And you have to understand that attack after attack and aggression after aggression has not been dealt with.

01:26:40.400 The police have not made arrests against the Islamic community.

01:26:43.160 They literally run away from them.

01:26:44.860 And literally, at the same time as this, they attack British protesters, whether it be on St. George's Day.

01:26:50.360 Now, yesterday was Independence Day for Pakistan.

01:26:52.640 The scenes we've seen across our country are the police dancing with Pakistanis, celebrating Pakistani Day.

01:26:57.680 Well, that's not what we saw for our St. George's Day.

01:26:59.880 We saw police with batons and riot shields attacking English men, dragging their St. George's flags off of them and beating them.

01:27:05.640 So what you have is a British public who feel totally oppressed by their government and police force.

01:27:11.620 And if they didn't feel that now, then as we're watching people be in prison for comments on Facebook, many of them anti-establishment comments.

01:27:19.100 You're putting people in jail for anti-establishment comments, whereas you haven't put people in jail or arrested them for calls for jihad, for calls from the river to the sea.

01:27:27.620 Oh, that's legit.

01:27:28.940 But you dare to say Allah, Allah, who is Allah, you're getting 18 months.

01:27:31.960 So they have actually ingrained on the world stage, two-tier policing and two-tier judiciary.

01:27:36.920 And the public have had the opportunity to see exactly what I've known for 15 years of my activism.

01:27:42.680 I know that we have a two-tier policing and two-tier judiciary.

01:27:46.020 And in the last seven days, that judiciary has been totally weaponized.

01:27:50.220 And the target is the British public who are standing up.

01:27:53.180 And yes, there were men committing crimes.

01:27:54.860 And yes, there were riots.

01:27:56.080 And if you wanted to, deal with them.

01:27:57.780 But how come the four Muslims who got arrested, or the three Muslims, they still haven't even faced prosecution?

01:28:04.780 Yet women are in jail for Facebook posts within seven days.

01:28:07.520 What is going on?

01:28:08.840 That's what the whole country is asking.

01:28:10.740 It was very, very rapid.

01:28:12.480 Very rapid and very public.

01:28:14.280 It was really something to see.

01:28:16.660 So, okay.

01:28:17.180 So, Tommy, I want to bring Tammy back in here for a minute.

01:28:20.660 But before I do that, I want to ask you, look, you're at the center of a major controversy, and that's not going to go away.

01:28:29.160 And what would you say—this is kind of a stock question, but I don't know how to more intelligently formulate it—what frightens you about yourself?

01:28:38.280 What do you think about you is—what are your characterological weaknesses?

01:28:41.720 Like, you're in a rough position, and it's necessary when you're in a position like yours is to be very aware of your various sins and stupidities.

01:28:50.340 And so, you know, you said you've been very emotionally upset about what's happened to you, and you've been traumatized in prison, and you've had your finances demolished, and you've been the target of judiciary investigations for a very long time.

01:29:03.760 And that's very stressful.

01:29:05.260 It can make people, what would you say, touchy and volatile, you know?

01:29:10.300 And I can actually understand that.

01:29:12.500 And so, like, what do you see in yourself that's dangerous, and how are you trying to control what, I suppose, the terrible things that you could purposefully or inadvertently bring about?

01:29:25.200 Okay, so, yeah. So, yes, when the country was at its highest point, again, when Lee Rigby was beheaded, when Lee Rigby was beheaded, I held a demonstration to 10,000 people.

01:29:36.320 No one wants to pick up what I've said. I stood up and said, there's 660 Muslims serving in our armed forces, yeah?

01:29:41.940 They're doing more for the country than me. If you attack a Muslim woman, you're a coward.

01:29:46.040 I've always educated and been pivotal on my points of nonviolence, always.

01:29:49.760 But, yeah, what is the danger for me? The danger for me personally is I'm going to back down. It's simple.

01:29:56.260 And that doesn't mean I'm not scared. I'm scared now. I'm terrified.

01:29:59.120 I have felt under attack at times. I've never felt what I felt for the last two weeks. Never.

01:30:04.920 I've never, ever felt this. I have got it coming from every angle, from everywhere.

01:30:10.440 What does that do to me? Does it make me cower? No, it makes me come out fighting.

01:30:14.040 And it makes me come out fighting in the sense that I'm willing to be the sacrificial lamb for you, yeah?

01:30:19.940 I'm willing to. And you better believe it to the establishment.

01:30:22.920 If you think putting me in jail and getting me killed is going to solve your problems,

01:30:26.200 you're going to spark the revolution like you cannot imagine.

01:30:28.980 And I'm willing to be in that position. So I keep putting myself in the way, saying,

01:30:33.040 go on then. What are you going to do? Because I'm not going to back down on the sense.

01:30:36.660 And why am I not going to back down? Because I wholeheartedly, Jordan, Tammy,

01:30:40.220 to anyone watching, I wholeheartedly believe our country is at stake. The future safety of our

01:30:45.740 children is at stake. We're supposed to shut up and remain silent whilst we're replaced,

01:30:50.940 whilst hostile communities are brought into our nation, whilst our rights and freedoms are taken.

01:30:56.420 If you know how after the last seven days you can't see our rights and freedoms are being taken,

01:31:00.140 well, we're not going to remain silent while they take them. And I'm going to scream it from

01:31:03.200 the hilltop. So what faults do I have? That's my fault. My fault is that I should have backed down a

01:31:08.760 long time ago. I should remain silent. Probably anyone reviewing this may say I come across as

01:31:13.740 aggressive. I'm passionate. And I'm passionate because I've had every thought and every worry

01:31:19.560 going through my mind for the last two weeks as I've watched the entire establishment's media,

01:31:25.200 government, politicians lie about me. But I also know there's an army of people watching this who

01:31:29.920 have seen their lies. So there's people that you think you can just silence me. It's not going to

01:31:34.760 work. You're going to martyr me and I'm not going to back down. And do you know what? You're going to

01:31:39.040 create a thousand Tommy Robinson's. You've already done that with your actions over the last seven

01:31:42.460 days. They've already done that. So there's no, there is no winning for them at this current

01:31:47.100 situation. People are awake. People aren't backing down. Our fight for freedom without your weight,

01:31:52.360 without our fight and love for freedom will outweigh your want for tyranny. And right now we're facing

01:31:57.340 tyrannical forces. Tyrannical forces that wish to enslave us and take our speech. Something that's our

01:32:02.980 God-given right. You're not taking it. Not without a fight. So people are, and what does that fight

01:32:08.140 assume? I'm not calling for people to commit violence. I never have. What I'm saying is we

01:32:12.340 will use our platform. We will awaken people and whatever move they make next, whether it's been

01:32:17.580 my imprisonment, you see, putting people in prison for 30 months or something said on Facebook,

01:32:21.800 you're actually doing our job. Our cause to awaken people, you're helping with it. So each time they try

01:32:26.980 to crush it, you're actually creating more people and they think that they can scare people into silence.

01:32:32.220 And as I said, I stood on, I stood in Trafalgar Square and said to the establishment,

01:32:36.700 what you're witnessing now is the British spirit. Do you see what they've done since that day?

01:32:40.580 It's tried to break that British spirit. I don't think they'll be successful. And the reason they

01:32:45.240 need to censor this video you're watching now, they need to censor it because it has the ability to

01:32:50.000 awaken more people. It has the ability to inspire more people. And they know that. They know that,

01:32:54.920 which is why they must have total control. You're going to go back to the UK, you said,

01:32:59.700 if I've got this right, near the end of October to face the music. That's the plan.

01:33:03.820 And in the meantime, I presume your strategy so far has been certainly not to involve yourself in the

01:33:11.900 demonstrations and so forth that have been occurring in the UK over the last few weeks,

01:33:16.080 except you also said that you were correcting certain misapprehensions about what's being said

01:33:21.500 about you and also the information that's been spread around. So you're going to,

01:33:25.760 your plan is to stay out of the, to let the events unfold as they will, but, but that you're going

01:33:33.280 to go back to the UK and face the music. That's the, that's the plan.

01:33:36.760 My, my plan is my documentary is currently on 44 million views. By the time they get me in jail,

01:33:41.220 it'll be on a hundred million. So by all means, send me to jail. You'll put more eyes in that film

01:33:45.500 than I could ever dream of where people need to realize the weaponization of the court system

01:33:50.100 against the people. It's not right. It's not right. And people need to know what they're doing

01:33:54.860 and how they're silencing dissident voices across the West. They need to understand it.

01:33:59.700 If we're going to stop it, people need to understand it. If Donald Trump gets elected,

01:34:02.660 he needs to break this. Okay. The weaponization of the courts, the unfair judiciary. Do you know,

01:34:07.200 I will watch what I say when I get into court before the judge. Have you watched the film,

01:34:11.100 your honour? If you have watched the film and I'm still sat here facing prosecution,

01:34:14.420 you're corrupt as well. Because that film categorically proves all I done was report the truth.

01:34:18.480 In what sane freedom loving world are we standing in where someone faces two years for reporting the truth?

01:34:24.860 Do we believe in the journalism or not? Do we believe in freedom of the press or not?

01:34:28.360 The problem is so many journalists don't believe in it. They believe in activism. They're activists,

01:34:32.900 not journalists. They're total activists. So my intention is on the 28th and 29th of October

01:34:38.640 to put the British judiciary on trial in the world's eyes. Now, so long as they don't kill Elon Musk

01:34:45.360 between now and then, that's my intention. Because everyone on X through my account will be able

01:34:50.440 to witness and watch the truth be told. That's my plans, Jordan. That's not something I'm looking

01:34:55.580 forward to. I had two weeks booked for my children because I knew what was coming. After three days,

01:35:01.460 they found me and my children. They doxxed them and put them in danger. They purposely done that.

01:35:05.700 So I had that time. That was my time with my loved ones because I know what's coming for me.

01:35:10.080 And they broke that. They broke that. So I'm not doing this because I want to do this. I don't want to do

01:35:15.660 this. I'd much rather just be enjoying my time with my children. But I'm not prepared for my

01:35:20.140 children to become enslaved. I'm not prepared for their freedom of speech to be taken. I'm not

01:35:24.400 prepared for them to be totally controlled by a manipulated media. They want total control of

01:35:30.580 the narrative. The centering of your YouTube channel is to control the narrative. Nothing more.

01:35:34.860 They can't pick fault with anything I've said. Otherwise, they'd highlight it. They say you've gone

01:35:38.800 against guidelines. Well, show us what guidelines I've gone against. How come you can't show us?

01:35:42.640 This is total and utter control. We've become slaves and allow censorship through big tech,

01:35:49.240 through all the corporations, or we fight it. I'm going to play my part and fight it.

01:35:54.160 Tam, do you want to bring this to a close, make some comments, ask Tommy some questions?

01:36:01.520 Well, you inspired me. You're inspiring us.

01:36:06.280 And our countries and our values are worth fighting for. And it's time for people, I think,

01:36:21.940 it's time for people to see the next right thing to do and then to do it, not to turn away.

01:36:28.180 Not to turn away and not to think it's someone else's fight. Because, I mean, if it's your fight,

01:36:35.340 then it's my fight. If it's your fight, then it's my son's fight. It's my daughter's fight.

01:36:44.160 Because they have children. And we're fighting for our kids. We're fighting for our grandchildren

01:36:50.260 to be able to have a place that they can call home like we have had a place to call home.

01:36:58.420 You know, I don't really have any questions. I think Tommy ended it on a very good note. I think that

01:37:05.680 it's his bravery and his conviction. That's what we need. We need to

01:37:13.040 look at ourselves and to see what it is that is calling us to do and to take one step in that

01:37:21.000 direction and see where it takes us. And if that's a scary place, and it's going to be a scary place

01:37:27.080 because we're in an inflection point, are you going to stay with the matrix or are you going to tell

01:37:36.360 the truth and free us from this tyranny? Well, Jordan, thank you, Tammy. Do you know what?

01:37:42.900 Thank you both of you because you didn't have to give me, you didn't have to sit down with me

01:37:46.040 ever and sit and talk to me. With the way they've made me toxic, I understand that probably the fears

01:37:50.580 that would have come with it. You've done it as supporters of free speech. I'm very grateful for

01:37:54.640 that. I'm sure the British public are grateful as well because many British public who feel

01:37:58.180 silenced and censored see me talking on their behalf, which is why they feel a connection with me,

01:38:04.700 a very passionate connection with me. Jordan, do you know the censored one now that can't be

01:38:09.200 shared and can't be commented on? Would you put that on X? Would you try and-

01:38:13.140 Yes, yes. We're planning to do that right now. We're planning to do that. I think we're doing

01:38:16.800 that today, Tommy. I think we're doing that today.

01:38:18.260 Are you? So you're going to put the entirety on X? Because as they censor, as they censor and take

01:38:22.380 the comments, X is now the home of free speech. It's the only place that they cannot control the

01:38:29.660 discussion, which means they don't control the narrative. I've said time and time again,

01:38:33.660 Elon Musk has as well, is that mainstream media and the controlled mainstream media is the cancer

01:38:40.060 and citizen journalism, i.e. any show willing to have debate and discussion, that's the cure.

01:38:45.440 More discussion, more free speech. I'll sit down and debate anyone on my issues. And that doesn't

01:38:49.760 mean I'm perfect or right about everything, but they should not be censoring or controlling what

01:38:53.960 you, the public hear. They want to silence me to control you. They want to silence this. They don't

01:38:59.100 want the comments or being able to share this discussion because they want to control how you think.

01:39:02.720 You're the target. We're in their way. You are the target.

01:39:05.940 Well, I do think, I mean, I do think, like, if I've had trouble with YouTube, in many ways,

01:39:14.440 they've left me alone, but they've taken down three of my discussions in the past, focusing

01:39:20.980 most particularly on the issue of the butchery of children by the sadistic, greedy, ideologically

01:39:27.540 captured medical elite, which is an absolutely appalling scandal in every possible manner.

01:39:34.080 And so they took those down, which I find absolutely reprehensible. And then they have

01:39:38.320 been gerrymandering our discussion and playing tricks on it, with it. And I think if the powers

01:39:45.840 that be, so to speak, at Google can gerrymander my discussions, which I'm trying to do in as

01:39:52.440 good a faith as I can possibly manage, then what the hell chance does the typical person

01:39:57.280 have to have their perspective noted and expressed? And I'm looking at what's happening in the

01:40:03.980 UK with these, as you call it, show trials, which are taking place with amazing rapidity,

01:40:09.740 given the general congested nature of the courts in an extraordinarily public manner. And I can't

01:40:15.780 help but conclude that that's being done to intimidate. And all of the worst fears I had

01:40:20.740 about Keir Starmer have come true. He's a totalitarian, utopian, narcissistic leftist,

01:40:27.380 and that's been on full display in the last month. And so it's a hell of a thing to see. And

01:40:33.580 this is absolutely no fun for anyone. And, you know, I can commiserate, at least to some degree,

01:40:39.580 with what you've been through. And I guess we're going to see what unfolds. Maybe Tommy will talk

01:40:46.560 again after October, after you go back to the UK. That's probably the next logical thing to do.

01:40:54.060 I'll be in jail, bro. I'll be in jail.

01:40:57.860 Yeah, well, I guess we'll see about that, won't we? Yeah, well, maybe, maybe, maybe,

01:41:01.940 maybe that's what I need. If there was any chance that Elon must watch this film, Elon,

01:41:06.440 please share the film silenced. I know it's a long film and I know you're a busy man,

01:41:11.280 but if he could get to watch that film and share it before I go prison, it may well be the thing

01:41:16.660 that saves me. Because once the world sees it, the world's politicians, the world's leaders,

01:41:21.480 which that Elon Musk shared it would have the ability to do, then it'd be more difficult. The

01:41:26.780 more views on that film, the more difficult it is to lock me up. That's what I think. So I'm grateful

01:41:31.280 for your time, everyone. And if I come across, you know what, I'm stressed now thinking I've come

01:41:35.020 across as aggressive or come across as, I am passionate about what I believe in. I'm passionate,

01:41:39.420 it's my life that I feel in danger here. The effect on my family, I've watched it all the

01:41:43.640 last two weeks. The problems from my mum, my dad, the problems from my children, all coming from what?

01:41:49.460 Because we tell the truth. Because we told the truth and there's no truth in what they're saying.

01:41:53.460 So again, they don't back it up, but I'm grateful for the time you've given me again. I'm grateful

01:41:57.280 for the opportunity to tell my story. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And thank you for

01:42:01.960 talking to us and taking the risk that goes along with it. And we appreciate that.

01:42:08.520 Terrifying though it is. And I guess we're going to talk for another 20 minutes on the Daily Wire

01:42:14.260 side and I'll take three minutes after this relatively stressful conversation. In terms of

01:42:19.060 how you displayed yourself today, look, Tommy, I think that being nice is an overrated virtue.

01:42:25.460 I don't think it's a virtue at all when it's indiscriminate. And the fact that you have enough

01:42:29.540 spine to stand up, especially against those bloody grooming gangs, which was the worst scandal I

01:42:36.800 think I've ever seen in my lifetime, bar none, the fact that you were willing to put yourself in the

01:42:41.360 front line with regards to those grooming gangs, that bestows a fair bit of credit on you in my

01:42:47.380 estimation, because that is so scandalous and so brutal and so dark and so malevolent and so

01:42:52.760 widespread that it's no bloody wonder people don't want to look at it and that it's easier for them

01:42:58.380 to write you off as a right-wing provocateur. Because the alternative is so bloody gruesome and horrible

01:43:04.440 that I can see why people don't want to face it. Who wants to face that?

01:43:08.860 And it's their failures.

01:43:09.840 Well, that's that bloody cowardice that Tammy talked about that's pervasive in the West and

01:43:14.860 it is a consequence of the collapse of our fundamental values and our spineless weakness

01:43:19.720 in the face of any assault on our core identity and our culture. So, oh well, we'll watch how it

01:43:26.240 plays out over the next month. And so, everybody watching and listening on YouTube, assuming that you

01:43:31.700 get to do that, well, thank you very much for your time and attention. And, you know, we'll stay on

01:43:36.600 top of this as much as we possibly can and bring you the closest account, the closest approximation

01:43:42.800 to the truth that we can possibly manage. And thanks again, Tommy and Tammy, for spending the

01:43:48.480 time and the effort to do this. And if you guys who are watching and listening want to join us on

01:43:53.340 the Daily Wire side, we'll continue this conversation for another 20 or 25 minutes. And so, thanks again,

01:43:59.320 Tommy. Yep. Good to see you both. Thank you. Thank you very much.

01:44:04.220 Hey, everyone. Real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and

01:44:09.200 important. Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling

01:44:14.540 depression and anxiety. We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we

01:44:20.100 wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling. With decades of

01:44:24.540 experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling

01:44:29.700 this way in his new series. He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey

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01:44:53.080 brighter future you deserve.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - August 29, 2024

476. Crime and Punishment ｜ Tommy Robinson

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