The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 477. Stopping the Socialist Trainwreck in British Columbia

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00:00:57.420 Hello everybody. I have the privilege today of speaking with John Rustad.

00:01:13.260 He's a conservative MLA member of the Legislative Assembly in a province called British Columbia in Canada.

00:01:18.560 A very resource-rich province and one that's on the coast.

00:01:23.480 It holds a crucial position with regards to the transportation of Canadian resources all around the world.

00:01:30.140 So he's a member of the Legislative Assembly, the provincial government, in a riding called, a constituency called N'Chaco Lakes.

00:01:38.200 But he's also the leader of the Conservative Party in British Columbia.

00:01:41.360 Now, British Columbia is an interesting province because it has a pretty pronounced left-right dichotomy in its political history.

00:01:48.800 And the left-wingers, in the guise of the new Democratic Party, have had control over British Columbia for the last seven years.

00:01:55.520 And that hasn't been good, to put it bluntly, for all the reasons that are associated with everything that's transpiring everywhere in the West on the culture war front.

00:02:04.780 And so, now we talked about John's past.

00:02:08.460 He's an interesting candidate because he has a history.

00:02:11.800 He's an entrepreneur.

00:02:12.580 He's started his own business, which was very successful.

00:02:15.320 Then he transitioned into the political domain, serving as a member of the Legislative Assembly and also as a cabinet member.

00:02:21.560 And so he's the rare politician who has the administrative, managerial, entrepreneurial and political background to actually be a credible leader.

00:02:29.600 He thinks he's got enough people around him that are competent to put together an effective government.

00:02:34.940 And so that could all happen.

00:02:37.020 And so we talked about, well, we talked about the culture wars.

00:02:40.040 We talked about the forestry and energy and other resource situation in British Columbia.

00:02:46.340 We talked about the state of relations with the indigenous people.

00:02:49.940 And he was very successful as the Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation in dealing with the First Nations.

00:02:57.680 So that's also a big deal in British Columbia in particular.

00:03:01.340 And so, and we talked more broadly about the culture war in general that's, you know, tearing the West apart, as most of you watching and listening know.

00:03:08.700 This election in British Columbia, it's another crucial election, as is the federal election in Canada a year from this October.

00:03:17.080 So we're hoping, we're hoping that the province flips and I had a good chance to talk to John today about his vision and to assess his competence, which is something you'll be able to do as a consequence of watching this video.

00:03:29.800 Well, Mr. Ostad, thank you very much for joining me here in Fairview, Alberta, live from Fairview, Alberta.

00:03:36.660 Well, it'll be pre-recorded actually, but it's live at the moment.

00:03:39.520 And there's an election coming up in British Columbia.

00:03:43.300 So I guess we should start probably because we'll also have an international audience.

00:03:47.360 Maybe you could start by just describing British Columbia and letting everybody know where it is.

00:03:52.920 And then we'll focus in on this election.

00:03:55.500 Well, British Columbia, of course, is on the West Coast of Canada, sometimes referred to as the left coast politically.

00:04:00.420 But obviously, it's a major port.

00:04:03.860 It's a major gateway for all of Canada to be able to access the world.

00:04:08.460 Many goods actually move from Asia through British Columbia and down into the United States.

00:04:13.140 It's a province that is very rich with resources.

00:04:16.360 It's got a tremendous amount to be able to offer, including everything from oil and gas to mining, forestry.

00:04:24.320 It's got a very good high-tech sector.

00:04:26.020 It is a very interesting province, actually, but many people look at it and think, you know,

00:04:32.140 that unfortunately it's hopelessly managed because of the politics that it's being mired in for many years.

00:04:37.420 Yeah, well, and British Columbia has always had a sort of strange provincial political scene

00:04:42.740 because of all the provinces in Canada, it's the one that flips to the most radical left and to the most conservative.

00:04:51.280 It flips back and forth.

00:04:52.540 And so that's very interesting.

00:04:53.740 And you also brought up the issue of resources, and this is something that we might want to delve into right off the bat.

00:05:02.760 I mean, it tends to be a left-wing trope that the poor should be well served and also that the environment should be well served.

00:05:11.620 The problem is, or a problem is, is that those two desires now run into conflict with one another.

00:05:19.520 And my sense is that the left, the radical left, is pretty willing to sacrifice the poor to the planet ineffectively, too,

00:05:29.820 because this has happened in Germany where the Greens have taken control and Germany is de-industrializing

00:05:34.600 and Germany actually pollutes more per kilowatt of energy produced now under the Green regimes than it did before under more, like, more pure capitalism.

00:05:43.880 The point I'm making here, and this is relevant for the international audience that might be watching this,

00:05:49.560 is that British Columbia is very resource-rich, and as you pointed out, it's a very important part.

00:05:55.160 And Canada has a lot of low-cost, raw materials, especially on the energy side, but not only on the energy side,

00:06:02.520 that could be brought to people all around the world to alleviate their poverty.

00:06:06.520 And it's very counterproductive to make it more difficult for people to live,

00:06:14.080 not least because they don't take a long-term view of the future then

00:06:17.100 and aren't likely to be concerned in their own localities with environmental issues.

00:06:21.220 So my sense is British Columbia and Canada could do a great job,

00:06:25.740 especially on the energy side, of getting natural gas, in particular,

00:06:30.660 off to markets all around the world, and British Columbia controls that in a large degree.

00:06:35.160 You're absolutely right.

00:06:36.720 I mean, I think it was over the last, I don't know how many decades,

00:06:39.740 2.4 billion people have been lifted out of abject poverty because of affordable energy.

00:06:45.520 And obviously, Canada has a tremendous amount of energy.

00:06:48.540 British Columbia has a tremendous amount of gas.

00:06:50.480 There's a billion people in the world today that do not have electricity.

00:06:53.780 I think it's somewhere between 400 and 600 million people

00:06:56.300 that only have enough electricity to run a refrigerator.

00:06:59.300 I mean, and those countries want to be able to have a quality of life.

00:07:02.580 We have the resources and the ability to be able to take the resources we have and export them

00:07:07.820 and use that for the benefit of our own people, to be able to improve our quality of life,

00:07:11.920 but at the same time, you know, be a real global player in terms of helping these other countries.

00:07:16.520 And so it's something that has always puzzled me in terms of why the left does not want to do this.

00:07:22.540 You know, do they not care about the people in other parts of the world?

00:07:26.740 Do they not care about the quality of life of the people in our own province?

00:07:29.460 By taking advantage of these resources, by providing that revenue to us

00:07:34.780 and providing those resources to other countries,

00:07:37.680 we're not only improving our quality of life, but we are playing our part in the globe,

00:07:42.660 making sure that other people have that quality of life.

00:07:45.060 And as you know, as people have more energy, as people have that higher quality of life,

00:07:50.520 they care more about the environment.

00:07:51.700 They actually do more for the environment than they can otherwise.

00:07:55.420 And so, you know, we can play a big role in that, but like I say,

00:07:58.240 it's just our policies seem to be blocking us from being able to be a major player.

00:08:02.440 Well, and the Chinese are building coal-fired plants like MADD,

00:08:06.300 and Canada has plenty of coal, but we also have plenty of liquid natural gas,

00:08:10.700 which is a good replacement for coal.

00:08:12.480 I mean, it looks to me like countries that are industrializing,

00:08:17.000 and they're doing that because they want to live longer,

00:08:20.700 more productive, and more opportunity-rich lives, just like we did.

00:08:25.400 They go through a relatively predictable sequence in terms of energy development,

00:08:29.860 and perhaps it starts with wood and peat and that sort of thing,

00:08:32.820 biomass, which is very polluting and not very efficient,

00:08:35.700 and hard on the forests, and terrible for indoor pollution.

00:08:38.640 And they transition to coal, which is much better in all regards than ordinary biomass,

00:08:44.580 and then, let's say, to natural gas and oil,

00:08:46.620 and then, potentially, if we were also weren't completely stupid about that,

00:08:50.080 to something approximating nuclear.

00:08:52.100 And so, the succession of improvement on the efficiency and cost front

00:08:57.880 in the energy world seems clear.

00:09:00.100 And it is a mystery that that isn't an accepted principle on the left,

00:09:06.100 because, and it's really shocked me,

00:09:08.060 because one of the things I've seen over the last 10 years is the,

00:09:12.000 every single time I've watched this in every Western country,

00:09:15.060 when the left has the choice between worshipping at the feet of the environment,

00:09:20.460 and in a stunningly counterproductive manner,

00:09:23.100 or serving the poor, they always serve the environment.

00:09:26.620 And my sense is that that's a consequence of,

00:09:30.780 likely, an anti-human and Malthusian ethos that emerged in the 1960s,

00:09:36.980 with claims by Paul Ehrlich and others, biologists mostly,

00:09:40.160 that the world was, by necessity, a place of finite resources,

00:09:44.640 that we would be running short of everything by the year 2000,

00:09:48.020 that the planet can't support more than a couple of hundred million people

00:09:51.280 at anything approximating the standard of living we have in the West.

00:09:55.800 And that anti-human ethos seems to have dominated the thinking of the left,

00:10:02.320 much to the terror and hardship of the poor.

00:10:06.240 I've been following this guy online named Jasper Manchugo,

00:10:10.300 and he's an African and a subsistence farmer,

00:10:13.220 but he's quite literate when it comes to the use of social media.

00:10:17.720 And he posts continually,

00:10:19.960 showing how much work he and his family have to do

00:10:24.060 to scratch out a living without fossil fuels,

00:10:27.760 trying to subsistence farm,

00:10:29.660 and to show that that's not the romantic dream of,

00:10:33.020 what would you say,

00:10:33.820 a noble, savage living that seems to possess the idiot Rossoeans of the left,

00:10:38.160 but a terrible hardship for him and everyone around him.

00:10:42.180 And he is trying to bring to public attention the fact that

00:10:46.160 the world desperately needs,

00:10:48.360 well, not least the fossil fuels that Canada can provide.

00:10:51.660 And Alberta wants to do that, obviously.

00:10:54.720 Alberta is the most,

00:10:56.160 for everybody listening who don't know,

00:10:58.640 Alberta is a very fossil fuel rich province,

00:11:00.840 but it's landlocked, it's right next to British Columbia,

00:11:03.320 and Canada's had a hell of a time getting its act together

00:11:05.920 with regards to the export of,

00:11:07.880 well, natural gas in particular.

00:11:10.120 Yeah, I know that there's no question in my mind,

00:11:12.440 you know, those natural resources,

00:11:14.840 those hydrocarbons could do a lot

00:11:16.300 to lift up the people in many places around the world.

00:11:19.620 But more importantly in that,

00:11:20.960 you know, you mentioned farming in Africa

00:11:22.440 and that side of things.

00:11:23.900 There seems to be this bent by populations around the world,

00:11:27.120 governments around the world,

00:11:27.800 that they want to stop the use of nitrogen-based fertilizer.

00:11:31.440 For nitrogen-based fertilizer,

00:11:32.740 I'm sure you know Norman Borlaug,

00:11:34.820 I think his name was,

00:11:35.820 who received the Nobel Prize for his work

00:11:38.420 in what was called the Green Revolution, right?

00:11:40.840 The massive increase in agricultural productivity

00:11:43.900 because of nitrogen-based fertilizer,

00:11:46.060 artificial fertilizers,

00:11:47.160 as well as water management and better land management.

00:11:50.380 And I just think of it,

00:11:51.340 and now we want to go backwards.

00:11:52.760 I mean, 40% of the world's food supply

00:11:54.740 comes from using nitrogen-based fertilizer.

00:11:56.800 So if you're going to stop using that,

00:11:58.960 and of course you need hydrocarbons for that,

00:12:00.760 you need a, you know, natural gas for the feedstock,

00:12:03.820 you're talking about significant amount

00:12:06.060 of shortage of food, people starving.

00:12:08.120 Which has already happened.

00:12:09.100 And I'm sorry, I'm not up for that.

00:12:10.620 I mean, that is not the way we should be as a world, right?

00:12:13.440 We should actually be trying to do everything we can

00:12:15.480 to improve global lives

00:12:17.040 and to be able to provide those goods.

00:12:18.640 And I just look at British Columbia as well,

00:12:20.260 and from an agriculture perspective,

00:12:22.080 we only procure 34% of the food we consume from BC.

00:12:25.340 Two-thirds of the food that we need

00:12:27.320 comes from outside our borders.

00:12:28.980 Now, we produce lots of cows,

00:12:31.320 you know, calves and send them off for finishing.

00:12:33.260 We produce lots of wine

00:12:34.340 and these types of things for export.

00:12:36.360 But the basics,

00:12:37.680 we're not meeting the needs of our own population.

00:12:40.100 And so if you've got these governments

00:12:41.280 around the world

00:12:42.000 that are talking about reducing food production,

00:12:44.400 it leaves our population vulnerable.

00:12:46.600 And so this was actually the reason

00:12:47.840 I was kicked out of my former political party,

00:12:50.220 because I started looking at this saying,

00:12:51.860 wait a second, this is not right.

00:12:53.740 We as a government should be putting the priority

00:12:56.240 of looking after our own people,

00:12:57.540 making sure that we meet their basic needs.

00:12:59.900 And similarly, you know,

00:13:01.340 we should take apart a role,

00:13:02.880 you know, nationally, internationally,

00:13:04.220 making sure that other people

00:13:05.900 can look after themselves as well.

00:13:07.360 It's just the right thing to do.

00:13:08.720 And yet, you're right.

00:13:09.580 The left seems to be hell-bent on,

00:13:11.600 you know, this ideology that probably,

00:13:14.260 yeah, like I say,

00:13:14.800 probably rooted out of the 60s

00:13:16.100 that just seems to be carrying forward.

00:13:17.500 It's the most humanitarian policy possible,

00:13:22.220 policies possible.

00:13:24.160 It seems to me it's pretty straightforward.

00:13:26.540 It's cheap energy and cheap food.

00:13:29.060 If you have cheap energy and cheap food,

00:13:30.900 you don't have poor people.

00:13:32.920 And so, and then the additional benefit,

00:13:35.620 as we already pointed out,

00:13:36.600 is that as soon as people

00:13:37.720 aren't scrabbling around in the muck

00:13:39.720 for their next meal,

00:13:41.240 they can start to take something approximating

00:13:43.840 a multi-generational perspective.

00:13:45.700 And that is what people do.

00:13:46.920 I mean, part of the reason

00:13:48.140 that we live so long

00:13:49.220 is because as grandparents,

00:13:50.940 we also help care for children.

00:13:52.380 Like human beings are wired

00:13:53.440 to take a longer view if they can.

00:13:56.420 But if you're desperately poor,

00:13:59.200 you default to what is necessary right now.

00:14:02.460 And that's often agricultural practices

00:14:05.560 and so forth that aren't sustainable

00:14:08.620 over the long run.

00:14:09.620 And so, you know,

00:14:10.400 I figured this out about 15 years ago

00:14:12.220 that we could all have our cake

00:14:13.940 and eat it too.

00:14:14.620 If we used our energy resources wisely,

00:14:18.080 if we knocked energy costs down,

00:14:20.020 which should be a primary goal

00:14:21.340 of politicians at every level of analysis,

00:14:23.920 regardless of political party,

00:14:25.280 if we knocked our energy costs down,

00:14:27.260 we could eradicate poverty worldwide

00:14:30.420 and we could feed everybody.

00:14:31.960 And then everybody would start

00:14:32.960 taking care of their environment locally.

00:14:35.500 It seems like an optimal,

00:14:37.320 it's very,

00:14:38.960 well, it borders on,

00:14:40.180 the alternative policies,

00:14:41.800 in my estimation,

00:14:42.640 border on genocidal.

00:14:43.620 And I know already

00:14:44.520 that the fact that energy costs

00:14:46.300 have spiraled upwards

00:14:48.300 is putting tremendous mortal pressure

00:14:51.480 on the poorest people

00:14:53.160 all around the world.

00:14:54.480 You can see too in Canada,

00:14:56.600 grocery prices have gone up so much

00:14:58.460 that it's actually hard to believe.

00:15:02.020 It's 22 or 23% that they've gone up

00:15:04.200 just in the last couple of years.

00:15:06.100 And you look at it,

00:15:07.000 but you're right about energy as well.

00:15:08.720 And you look at what's going on in the world

00:15:10.320 and you think,

00:15:10.780 okay, so we're driving up their energy prices.

00:15:12.600 And I think it was,

00:15:13.600 I can't remember which country it was,

00:15:15.500 the president of the country in Africa said,

00:15:17.620 look, no country's ever been able to develop

00:15:20.120 and to be able to meet its needs

00:15:22.640 by going with wind and solar.

00:15:24.400 They've had to use more dense energy,

00:15:26.600 such as coal and then natural gas.

00:15:29.280 And then obviously we need to get to nuclear.

00:15:31.000 And I'll talk about nuclear in a minute

00:15:32.080 because it's a very interesting situation for BC.

00:15:34.240 Okay, okay.

00:15:34.720 But when I look at that,

00:15:36.660 there's a clear correlation

00:15:37.800 between affordable energy and quality of life.

00:15:41.320 And in British Columbia right now,

00:15:42.560 because of the carbon tax and prices going up

00:15:44.600 and we've got the highest gas prices in the country,

00:15:47.300 people are struggling.

00:15:48.340 I mean, there's a third of British Columbians

00:15:49.720 that's looking at leaving the province.

00:15:52.420 One in two youth are looking at leaving the province

00:15:54.280 because they can't make a go of it.

00:15:56.820 In a province that is so rich,

00:15:58.180 that's got so much to offer.

00:16:00.000 And yet this is what has happened

00:16:02.140 from poor government policies,

00:16:03.940 driving up the cost of the basics,

00:16:05.540 food, energy, housing.

00:16:07.700 And they're saying, wait a second here,

00:16:09.100 I can't ever hope to buy a home.

00:16:11.920 I can't raise a family.

00:16:13.100 Why would I stay here?

00:16:14.140 I'm going to go find another place

00:16:15.860 to be able to build my life.

00:16:17.340 I mean, and that's what British Columbia

00:16:19.440 actually was founded on.

00:16:21.000 It was people from other parts of the world

00:16:22.880 that had those problems and said,

00:16:24.480 let's go to British Columbia

00:16:25.560 because I can build a life there.

00:16:27.260 And it's now flipped.

00:16:28.040 And so this is what needs to change.

00:16:30.260 And fundamentally, it has to change

00:16:32.440 at the political level

00:16:33.440 in order for it to be able to change

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00:19:22.960 Well, and we could

00:19:23.940 examine wind and solar

00:19:25.700 for a moment too

00:19:26.660 because

00:19:27.060 I've got nothing

00:19:29.060 personally against

00:19:30.060 wind or solar

00:19:31.160 although I think that

00:19:32.200 the windmills are hideous

00:19:33.980 and they devastate

00:19:35.300 and they devastate

00:19:35.320 the landscapes

00:19:35.900 that they're placed in

00:19:36.800 and that actually matters

00:19:37.840 because

00:19:38.240 well

00:19:39.160 one of the environmentalist

00:19:42.420 contentions

00:19:43.040 is that

00:19:43.520 the beauty of nature

00:19:44.700 is a value

00:19:45.460 in and of itself

00:19:46.220 as well as

00:19:46.880 something that's

00:19:48.140 of obvious benefit

00:19:49.180 to human beings

00:19:49.920 and windmill littered

00:19:51.500 landscapes are

00:19:52.180 by no means beautiful

00:19:53.300 and I actually think

00:19:54.320 that that's a problem

00:19:55.100 because ugly matters

00:19:56.120 but there's

00:19:57.040 issues that are

00:19:58.700 much more relevant

00:19:59.500 than that.

00:20:00.100 It's like

00:20:00.380 solar panels

00:20:01.680 don't last very long

00:20:02.680 they're very susceptible

00:20:03.760 to hailstorms

00:20:04.720 for example

00:20:05.260 they're very

00:20:06.060 energy demanding

00:20:07.380 in their production

00:20:08.660 they're often

00:20:10.580 manufactured in China

00:20:12.820 and often using

00:20:13.840 slave labor

00:20:14.480 which doesn't strike me

00:20:15.480 as a particularly

00:20:16.040 positive benefit

00:20:16.900 they tend to work

00:20:17.840 very badly at night

00:20:19.000 and wind power

00:20:20.220 of course

00:20:20.720 both wind and solar

00:20:22.140 costs

00:20:23.280 spiral up

00:20:25.020 towards the infinite

00:20:25.780 as the supply

00:20:26.660 decreases right

00:20:27.580 so there's no solar

00:20:28.540 at night

00:20:29.060 and my understanding

00:20:30.720 of what that means

00:20:31.540 is that even if

00:20:32.240 we had a wind

00:20:32.840 and solar grid

00:20:33.640 which we don't

00:20:34.460 that was reliable

00:20:35.300 and that plentiful

00:20:36.300 which we certainly

00:20:37.100 don't and are

00:20:37.740 nowhere near doing

00:20:38.680 we need a backup

00:20:39.920 system anyways

00:20:40.800 like and this is

00:20:41.920 what's happened

00:20:42.400 in Germany

00:20:42.920 and they took

00:20:43.960 their bloody

00:20:44.420 nuclear plants

00:20:45.400 offline

00:20:45.820 and then they

00:20:46.840 defaulted to coal

00:20:47.920 and then they

00:20:48.800 burn lignite

00:20:49.700 which is the most

00:20:50.400 polluting form of coal

00:20:51.440 and now in Germany

00:20:52.360 they have much less

00:20:53.280 electricity

00:20:53.800 it's much more

00:20:54.560 unstable

00:20:55.080 they're much more

00:20:55.740 dependent on foreign

00:20:56.760 tyrants for their

00:20:57.740 energy

00:20:58.560 and they pollute

00:21:00.480 more while they're

00:21:01.160 de-industrializing

00:21:02.280 exactly

00:21:02.780 and they've also

00:21:04.600 driven up the cost

00:21:05.340 of the energy

00:21:05.800 yeah five times

00:21:06.740 what it should be

00:21:07.360 the quality of life

00:21:08.360 for the people in

00:21:09.300 Germany is in decline

00:21:10.220 and it's a straight

00:21:11.760 correlation

00:21:12.240 high energy costs

00:21:13.380 lower quality of life

00:21:14.440 and so I

00:21:15.360 you know I look

00:21:15.860 wind and solar

00:21:16.340 has their place

00:21:17.100 but they're additives

00:21:18.280 to our energy mix

00:21:19.800 they are not

00:21:20.900 baseload

00:21:21.620 they can't be baseload

00:21:22.860 not to mention

00:21:23.660 as I said

00:21:24.440 you really

00:21:25.300 where you get

00:21:26.240 the value in energy

00:21:27.240 where you can drive

00:21:27.920 down the cost

00:21:28.600 is the higher

00:21:29.180 density energy

00:21:30.220 describe that

00:21:31.240 for people

00:21:31.640 because people

00:21:32.080 don't understand

00:21:32.760 what that means

00:21:33.280 well you think

00:21:33.640 about you think

00:21:34.260 about you know

00:21:35.080 wood for example

00:21:36.300 right it's it's

00:21:37.360 not very dense

00:21:38.100 has lots of energy

00:21:39.060 in it but it's

00:21:39.600 not very dense

00:21:40.060 so the huge

00:21:41.100 advancement was

00:21:41.740 going to coal

00:21:42.260 because it was

00:21:42.900 a far smaller

00:21:43.680 amount of product

00:21:44.880 to produce the

00:21:45.800 same amount

00:21:46.400 of energy

00:21:47.020 then you get

00:21:48.020 to oil

00:21:48.560 and natural gas

00:21:49.580 which is similar

00:21:50.140 once again

00:21:50.700 you're using

00:21:51.200 less product

00:21:51.940 to get the same

00:21:52.520 amount of energy

00:21:53.080 and the real

00:21:54.000 genie

00:21:54.420 the best we have

00:21:56.240 so far

00:21:56.800 is when you look

00:21:57.460 at nuclear

00:21:57.800 when you look

00:21:58.260 at uranium

00:21:58.660 the amount

00:21:59.440 of energy

00:21:59.940 you can generate

00:22:00.760 out of uranium

00:22:01.620 is phenomenally

00:22:03.160 better from

00:22:03.940 the amount

00:22:04.740 of material

00:22:05.160 you need

00:22:05.580 as opposed

00:22:06.060 to the other

00:22:06.680 products

00:22:07.120 and you know

00:22:07.900 in British Columbia

00:22:08.420 it's interesting

00:22:08.940 you think

00:22:09.260 the left

00:22:09.900 doesn't support

00:22:11.080 you know

00:22:11.560 nuclear power

00:22:12.260 which is crazy

00:22:13.860 but in British Columbia

00:22:15.520 it was actually

00:22:16.140 a centre-right party

00:22:17.100 that actually banned

00:22:17.940 nuclear power

00:22:18.440 from being used

00:22:19.020 in BC

00:22:19.360 which is weird

00:22:20.440 and it was

00:22:21.740 because of politics

00:22:22.440 it's too many

00:22:23.200 politicians

00:22:23.820 today

00:22:24.840 they chase

00:22:25.840 you know

00:22:26.400 where they think

00:22:26.920 the vote is

00:22:27.520 as opposed to

00:22:28.040 standing on the principles

00:22:29.040 standing on the values

00:22:30.220 that are needed

00:22:30.720 to be able to create

00:22:31.620 a you know

00:22:32.640 a good society

00:22:33.520 and quality of life

00:22:34.500 and so that to me

00:22:36.000 is where

00:22:36.920 you know

00:22:37.640 politics needs to go

00:22:38.620 and often

00:22:38.940 that's not necessarily

00:22:40.060 politics of the right

00:22:41.100 or the left

00:22:41.560 it's just you know

00:22:42.480 politics that is

00:22:43.600 willing to actually

00:22:44.240 stand up and say

00:22:44.820 no these are the values

00:22:45.960 that we stand for

00:22:46.700 this is what we're

00:22:47.980 going to go

00:22:48.400 and say that we need

00:22:49.620 to do for a society

00:22:50.380 and then ask people

00:22:51.080 to support that

00:22:51.700 make the case

00:22:52.440 as opposed to

00:22:53.460 trying to you know

00:22:54.400 pander to

00:22:55.100 to the various

00:22:55.940 political positioning

00:22:57.000 so okay

00:22:57.640 so back to the

00:22:58.380 nuclear issue

00:22:59.040 so it is the case

00:23:00.680 that the radicals

00:23:02.380 on the left

00:23:02.880 oppose nuclear

00:23:03.620 although as you

00:23:04.280 pointed out

00:23:04.820 the conservative

00:23:05.740 types

00:23:06.240 and the more

00:23:07.060 classic liberals

00:23:07.780 can also get

00:23:08.540 entirely confused

00:23:09.540 about this

00:23:10.120 in a kind of

00:23:10.740 stupid populist

00:23:11.780 manner

00:23:12.160 but let's lay

00:23:14.040 a few things

00:23:15.020 out here

00:23:15.380 so well

00:23:16.760 as you pointed out

00:23:18.340 nuclear energy

00:23:19.620 is very energy

00:23:20.400 dense

00:23:20.760 and that means

00:23:21.740 you get more

00:23:22.280 energy per unit

00:23:23.280 of matter

00:23:23.840 okay why is

00:23:24.520 that relevant

00:23:25.040 well it decreases

00:23:25.860 transportation costs

00:23:27.080 for example

00:23:27.720 and that also

00:23:28.620 reduces environmental

00:23:29.580 load

00:23:30.080 and so it's much

00:23:31.200 more effective

00:23:31.920 to ship

00:23:32.540 coal than wood

00:23:34.320 and it's much

00:23:35.060 more efficient

00:23:35.920 to ship natural

00:23:36.800 gas than coal

00:23:37.720 right so

00:23:38.600 and that also

00:23:39.520 has its

00:23:39.960 environmental benefit

00:23:41.000 okay and then

00:23:42.060 you might say

00:23:43.300 on the downside

00:23:44.260 on the nuclear

00:23:45.040 side

00:23:45.480 you know people

00:23:46.440 are afraid of

00:23:47.060 nuclear radiation

00:23:47.880 and they're afraid

00:23:48.620 of what to do

00:23:49.280 with the nuclear

00:23:49.880 waste

00:23:50.260 but nuclear power

00:23:51.960 has historically

00:23:52.920 been very safe

00:23:53.920 more people

00:23:56.140 die from solar

00:23:57.200 power every year

00:23:58.100 than from nuclear

00:23:58.820 power and the

00:23:59.640 fundamental reason

00:24:00.420 for that is

00:24:01.420 because they fall

00:24:02.160 off roofs

00:24:02.800 when they're

00:24:03.200 installing the

00:24:03.920 panels

00:24:05.140 I mean life's

00:24:06.560 complicated right

00:24:07.300 it's not something

00:24:07.940 that you'd predict

00:24:08.720 but

00:24:08.960 no you're absolutely

00:24:09.920 right

00:24:10.220 but I look at it

00:24:11.280 this way

00:24:11.560 so as a province

00:24:12.820 in British Columbia

00:24:13.880 they've got this

00:24:14.600 green agenda

00:24:15.480 and what they want

00:24:17.600 to do is they want

00:24:18.200 to go to using

00:24:18.980 heat pumps instead

00:24:19.780 of using natural

00:24:20.440 gas

00:24:20.800 and so you look

00:24:22.500 at it and think

00:24:22.900 okay well that

00:24:23.440 sounds good

00:24:23.860 why wouldn't you

00:24:24.340 do that

00:24:24.740 you know heat

00:24:25.140 pumps

00:24:25.360 other than the

00:24:25.980 fact that they're

00:24:26.620 very ineffective

00:24:27.420 when it's cold

00:24:28.140 which is a real

00:24:29.040 problem in Canada

00:24:29.900 which is the vast

00:24:30.460 majority of British

00:24:31.160 Columbia right

00:24:31.880 in the winter

00:24:32.360 however when you

00:24:34.140 look at it

00:24:34.660 and say if every

00:24:35.360 house in British

00:24:36.040 Columbia would

00:24:37.180 require a heat

00:24:38.000 pump and every

00:24:38.720 business and you

00:24:40.040 know in British

00:24:40.560 Columbia required a

00:24:41.140 heat pump we

00:24:41.980 would need to

00:24:42.440 build the equivalent

00:24:43.040 of six or seven

00:24:44.020 more sightsee dams

00:24:45.160 right

00:24:45.520 we're not going

00:24:45.920 to likely build

00:24:46.520 another major dam

00:24:47.360 in BC so where's

00:24:48.100 that power going to

00:24:48.620 come from

00:24:49.000 we're already net

00:24:49.900 importers of

00:24:50.560 electricity into

00:24:51.320 British Columbia

00:24:51.800 I mean we've got

00:24:52.620 these vast amounts

00:24:53.600 of hydroelectric

00:24:54.920 power you know

00:24:55.880 our grid is is

00:24:56.740 almost all green

00:24:57.680 if you consider

00:24:58.660 hydro power green

00:25:00.280 but it's we don't

00:25:02.720 have enough and

00:25:03.660 so and they want to

00:25:04.520 put these restrictions

00:25:05.260 on saying we need

00:25:06.460 to use more of it

00:25:07.160 but there's no plan

00:25:07.840 to build it out

00:25:08.460 and this is where

00:25:09.340 we actually have to

00:25:10.080 start having that

00:25:10.740 conversation about

00:25:11.500 nuclear whether it's

00:25:12.780 small modular reactors

00:25:13.740 or other types of

00:25:14.460 nuclear technology

00:25:15.280 we're going to need

00:25:16.480 that power in

00:25:17.360 British Columbia

00:25:17.920 and so it's

00:25:19.040 something that I

00:25:19.640 think as a

00:25:20.300 government we need

00:25:21.040 to go out and

00:25:21.400 have an honest

00:25:21.840 conversation with

00:25:22.640 people about

00:25:23.220 like let's talk

00:25:24.280 about what it

00:25:24.900 means and what

00:25:26.040 the cost is for

00:25:27.340 for people and

00:25:28.060 what that means for

00:25:28.760 your quality of life

00:25:29.580 and what the

00:25:30.080 options are and

00:25:31.360 let's just be

00:25:31.820 straight up with

00:25:32.340 people and let

00:25:33.620 them decide where

00:25:34.360 they would like to

00:25:34.960 go

00:25:35.180 so so let's

00:25:37.100 we'll delve in

00:25:38.720 one more way into

00:25:39.740 the nuclear issue

00:25:40.580 so the fundamental

00:25:43.720 shibboleth of the

00:25:44.780 left with regards to

00:25:45.920 the environment is

00:25:46.940 carbon dioxide

00:25:47.780 production now

00:25:48.860 personally and I'm

00:25:50.020 not going to push

00:25:50.620 you on this to any

00:25:51.300 degree but personally

00:25:52.180 I'm very skeptical

00:25:53.300 of the climate

00:25:54.580 change science

00:25:55.940 science science is a

00:25:58.140 complicated business

00:25:59.080 and what the media

00:26:00.140 reports is not

00:26:00.980 necessarily science

00:26:01.980 I've been struck to

00:26:03.860 the core I would say

00:26:05.060 by the NASA reported

00:26:06.940 findings that the

00:26:08.140 planet has greened

00:26:08.940 20% since the year

00:26:10.080 2000 and that one

00:26:12.080 consequence of that

00:26:13.040 is that crops are

00:26:14.260 much more productive

00:26:14.980 like 13 to 15% more

00:26:16.740 productive and that

00:26:17.780 is directly because of

00:26:19.420 carbon dioxide

00:26:20.400 increase and so I

00:26:21.560 truly believe that a

00:26:22.780 dispassionate scientist

00:26:23.940 who wasn't being

00:26:25.260 affected by the

00:26:26.280 hangover of the

00:26:27.360 anti-human

00:26:28.020 Malthusian agenda

00:26:29.120 from the 1960s would

00:26:30.440 look at the data and

00:26:31.280 say well the planet's

00:26:32.940 20% greener and most

00:26:34.820 of that greening

00:26:35.540 occurred in semi-arid

00:26:36.800 areas so the deserts

00:26:37.960 are actually shrinking

00:26:38.820 how the hell is that

00:26:40.000 not a net good from

00:26:41.020 the environmental side

00:26:41.980 independent of that

00:26:43.680 if you do believe

00:26:44.780 that carbon dioxide

00:26:45.580 is the villain and

00:26:47.180 you believe that

00:26:48.140 independently of your

00:26:50.820 anti-human Malthusian

00:26:52.960 anti-industrialization

00:26:54.440 what drive there's too

00:26:56.940 many people on the

00:26:57.680 planet well then you

00:26:58.580 do everything you

00:26:59.240 could to reduce

00:26:59.900 carbon dioxide

00:27:00.580 okay and if you're

00:27:02.380 not going to

00:27:02.760 impoverish and starve

00:27:03.800 people then you're

00:27:06.000 going to use nuclear

00:27:06.740 but the left opposes

00:27:08.560 nuclear so how what

00:27:09.840 can you do but

00:27:10.500 conclude that there's

00:27:12.140 something other than

00:27:12.980 even an anti-carbon

00:27:13.960 dioxide agenda that's

00:27:15.160 driving that that

00:27:16.420 system of ideas it

00:27:18.040 has to be something

00:27:18.920 like an anti-capitalist

00:27:21.640 anti-industrialization

00:27:23.120 anti-human population

00:27:25.040 agenda because nothing

00:27:26.240 else accounts for the

00:27:27.200 left's opposition to

00:27:28.180 nuclear power you know

00:27:29.360 I always I always like

00:27:30.820 to joke and I mean

00:27:32.340 this is it's a sad

00:27:33.440 reality but how is it

00:27:35.040 that we've convinced

00:27:35.980 carbon-based beings that

00:27:37.780 carbon is a problem

00:27:38.740 yeah well the carbon

00:27:40.340 based beings are the

00:27:41.320 problem well certainly

00:27:43.240 the thinking I don't

00:27:43.980 necessarily mean the

00:27:44.660 carbon-based beings are

00:27:45.540 a problem but no I

00:27:46.900 meant that in terms of

00:27:47.840 how the left is

00:27:48.680 conceptualized yes but I

00:27:50.380 I look at it from a

00:27:51.560 perspective in British

00:27:52.300 Columbia like this is

00:27:53.080 why we want to get rid

00:27:54.020 of the carbon tax I

00:27:54.880 mean taxing people into

00:27:55.940 poverty in some vain

00:27:57.060 attempt to change the

00:27:57.940 weather is absolute

00:27:58.720 lunacy it makes no

00:28:00.100 sense whatsoever so that

00:28:01.320 sort of stuff has got to

00:28:02.160 go not to mention it

00:28:03.420 drives up your energy

00:28:04.280 cost which means you're

00:28:05.280 lowering your quality of

00:28:06.300 life and you're you're

00:28:07.580 costing people you know

00:28:09.140 their ability to build

00:28:10.280 put food on the table

00:28:11.160 and pay their rent

00:28:11.860 doesn't make any sense

00:28:13.020 to be doing this and so

00:28:14.840 that's not an approach

00:28:15.940 that we're going to be

00:28:16.500 worried about in

00:28:17.040 British Columbia should

00:28:17.660 the conservatives have a

00:28:18.460 chance to win a

00:28:19.380 government and it's just

00:28:21.180 because it's it we can't

00:28:23.220 make a difference even if

00:28:24.060 you think CO2 is the

00:28:25.160 problem many people

00:28:26.500 you'll still believe that

00:28:27.500 we can't make a

00:28:28.360 difference one way or

00:28:28.960 the other anyway even if

00:28:30.140 we stop everything we

00:28:31.200 did we're a fraction of a

00:28:32.620 percentage we're not

00:28:33.740 we're a rounding error

00:28:34.460 everything the West does

00:28:36.060 with regards to the

00:28:38.200 green agenda on

00:28:39.800 atmospheric grounds is

00:28:41.160 rendered 100 percent

00:28:43.000 irrelevant by China and

00:28:44.280 India and the leftists

00:28:45.720 say well we can be an

00:28:46.760 example it's like I don't

00:28:48.260 think we're posing much

00:28:49.340 of an example to the

00:28:50.240 Chinese how many coal

00:28:51.120 plants have they built in

00:28:52.100 the last two years it's

00:28:53.080 like 600 it's some

00:28:54.560 ridiculous to me I also

00:28:55.900 look at and think okay

00:28:56.840 who we we're a small

00:28:58.340 trading jurisdiction

00:28:59.140 British Columbia is

00:28:59.980 and Canada to a degree is

00:29:01.660 well we depend very much

00:29:02.840 on exporting our goods

00:29:03.820 so if we're driving up

00:29:05.240 the cost of our goods

00:29:06.600 you know the simple

00:29:08.220 supply and demand if

00:29:09.500 you want to buy an

00:29:10.280 apple and I've got an

00:29:11.320 apple for sale for

00:29:12.000 three dollars and

00:29:12.740 somebody else has an

00:29:13.420 apple for sale for

00:29:14.200 two dollars you're going

00:29:15.300 to go get the apple for

00:29:16.100 two dollars right I

00:29:17.520 mean you're going to

00:29:18.560 stretch your dollars as

00:29:19.420 much as you can and so

00:29:20.660 if we're driving up the

00:29:21.460 cost of our goods

00:29:22.400 through carbon taxes and

00:29:24.180 other policies in

00:29:25.340 British Columbia we

00:29:26.580 can't compete on a

00:29:27.320 global scale and so we

00:29:28.560 actually lose our

00:29:29.280 market share we

00:29:30.000 actually create more

00:29:31.400 problems in our

00:29:32.060 society we actually

00:29:33.080 once again drive down

00:29:34.120 our quality of life

00:29:34.940 our GDP growth you

00:29:36.500 know starts shrinking

00:29:37.260 which it is which it

00:29:38.660 is right I mean as

00:29:39.440 you know right I mean

00:29:40.420 it's a horrendous

00:29:41.380 record in British

00:29:42.460 Columbia and in

00:29:43.380 Canada yeah well

00:29:44.300 Canadians now we

00:29:46.020 have 60 percent of

00:29:47.260 the GDP per capita

00:29:48.500 that Americans have

00:29:49.380 60 percent like

00:29:50.820 we're we're entering

00:29:53.140 an era where we we

00:29:54.740 are where the

00:29:55.560 American typical

00:29:56.360 American is twice as

00:29:57.640 rich as the typical

00:29:58.520 Canadian it's insane

00:30:00.020 and that doesn't

00:30:01.060 factor in the fact

00:30:02.000 that our housing

00:30:02.860 costs are in

00:30:04.020 Canada where we

00:30:05.580 have quite a lot of

00:30:06.420 land our housing

00:30:07.980 costs are generally

00:30:09.240 twice what they are

00:30:10.160 in the US so we're

00:30:11.420 half as wealthy

00:30:12.700 approximately and our

00:30:14.440 real estate is twice as

00:30:15.480 expensive and for what

00:30:17.080 and then the other

00:30:18.200 environmental conundrum

00:30:20.060 that perplexes me about

00:30:21.700 Canada is like okay

00:30:22.920 well people around the

00:30:25.660 world are going to get

00:30:27.200 their energy somewhere

00:30:28.080 as we can see by the

00:30:29.320 fact that China is

00:30:30.220 building coal-fired

00:30:31.020 plants at a rate that

00:30:32.080 swamps anything

00:30:33.720 possible as is India

00:30:35.180 as is India and of

00:30:36.300 course they are and

00:30:37.300 of course Africa will

00:30:38.340 do the same thing if

00:30:39.300 if the international

00:30:40.540 neo-colonialists don't

00:30:42.180 stop them by refusing to

00:30:44.000 lend them money and so

00:30:44.820 forth which they are

00:30:45.880 so the developing world

00:30:47.780 is going to develop and

00:30:48.860 we have absolutely no

00:30:50.080 right whatsoever to put

00:30:52.260 anything approximating a

00:30:53.560 halt on that because

00:30:54.600 that really means that

00:30:55.500 we're killing the world's

00:30:56.580 poor people and depriving

00:30:57.740 their children of any

00:30:58.540 opportunity we have no

00:30:59.780 moral right to do that

00:31:00.740 whatsoever okay so then

00:31:03.300 you might say well

00:31:04.060 Canada should be an

00:31:05.040 example and we can set

00:31:06.340 an example for green

00:31:07.400 technology that the rest

00:31:08.440 of the world could

00:31:08.960 adopt I mean first of

00:31:09.960 all no I don't think we

00:31:10.940 can do that because we're

00:31:11.880 not innovative enough to

00:31:13.060 do that and it's also

00:31:13.820 very difficult but also

00:31:15.340 the best rejoinder to

00:31:16.700 that is well do you

00:31:18.200 want Europeans the

00:31:20.440 Japanese do you want

00:31:21.360 them dependent on the

00:31:23.020 dictatorships that

00:31:23.900 control the oil supply

00:31:24.960 or Putin and do you

00:31:26.800 want them dependent for

00:31:27.760 their energy on

00:31:28.440 jurisdictions that

00:31:29.380 unlike Canada are much

00:31:30.580 more lax in their

00:31:31.360 environmental regulations

00:31:32.420 I mean one thing you can

00:31:33.860 say about the Canadian

00:31:35.120 fossil fuel industry is

00:31:36.500 that it's arguably the

00:31:38.580 most attentive in the

00:31:39.860 world to environmental

00:31:41.020 considerations now that

00:31:42.160 doesn't make it perfect

00:31:43.180 but nothing's perfect so

00:31:44.760 again I don't understand

00:31:46.340 the objection it's like

00:31:47.520 why can't Canada play its

00:31:49.220 proper role as provider of

00:31:51.100 raw resources to the

00:31:52.340 world I have a theory

00:31:53.480 around that and I mean

00:31:54.720 certainly there's a lot

00:31:56.180 of the left thinking

00:31:56.900 that's in there but I

00:31:57.980 actually think quite

00:31:58.760 frankly we're also being

00:31:59.860 influenced by other

00:32:01.600 countries agendas I mean

00:32:03.380 obviously look if if

00:32:04.860 Canada is exporting its

00:32:06.260 energy to around the

00:32:07.220 world then we're not

00:32:08.360 selling cheap energy to

00:32:09.320 the United States and so

00:32:11.300 there's a there's a very

00:32:13.020 specific agenda you think

00:32:14.160 about it we sell our oil

00:32:15.680 down to the United States

00:32:17.260 at a you know $20 a

00:32:18.600 barrel discount 15 to 20

00:32:20.040 you know sometimes more

00:32:21.220 sometimes less well what do

00:32:23.020 they do they take that

00:32:23.920 oil find it and ship it

00:32:25.480 out to the East Coast

00:32:26.200 and so they make money on

00:32:29.080 the arbitrage on this and

00:32:30.180 so this doesn't make

00:32:31.140 sense to me and it's

00:32:32.180 actually one of the

00:32:32.680 reasons why I think you

00:32:33.620 know it should we have

00:32:34.800 that opportunity from

00:32:35.620 government I actually want

00:32:36.840 to try to create a

00:32:37.700 Canada-wide free trade

00:32:38.620 agreement it makes no

00:32:39.840 sense to me that I can

00:32:41.000 trade easier with the

00:32:42.100 United States and Mexico

00:32:43.180 than I can with other

00:32:44.480 provinces we have no

00:32:45.720 sense of who we are as a

00:32:46.720 country we need to be

00:32:47.920 able to create that sense

00:32:48.940 of the country so let's

00:32:49.940 start talking about how we

00:32:51.560 actually build trade

00:32:52.660 across this country and

00:32:53.620 have a sense of who we

00:32:54.540 are yeah well our PM

00:32:56.120 famously announced that

00:32:57.220 we really have no

00:32:57.960 national identity in

00:32:59.060 Canada right so as you

00:33:00.260 and I think that's more

00:33:02.520 what would you say an

00:33:04.020 indication of his sense

00:33:06.420 of what constitutes Canada

00:33:07.780 his belief that seems to

00:33:09.300 be quite prevalent in the

00:33:10.280 West is that there's no

00:33:11.320 uniting ethos that defines

00:33:13.440 us as a country and I

00:33:14.940 mean it's a it's a

00:33:15.820 preposterous notion and

00:33:17.460 it's unbelievably

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00:34:25.580 you know I think about it

00:34:29.200 so 160 years ago we had the

00:34:31.040 thinking that brought this

00:34:31.900 country together right the

00:34:32.900 rail line tied in the

00:34:34.080 country we had the sense of

00:34:35.700 who we were you know based

00:34:36.880 on our identity if we were

00:34:39.060 to take the 10 provinces in

00:34:40.400 the three territories today

00:34:41.400 and say let's build this

00:34:42.980 entity called Canada what

00:34:45.460 would we have to do to

00:34:46.440 achieve that right well

00:34:48.160 obviously you know trade

00:34:49.300 would be a big part of it

00:34:50.260 but we'd also have to be

00:34:51.340 having a conversation about

00:34:52.480 you know where the

00:34:53.120 authorities and powers are

00:34:54.340 because there's obviously

00:34:55.160 some overlaps and problems

00:34:56.280 we have today but we'd

00:34:57.620 have to you know have that

00:34:58.820 sense of what is it that

00:34:59.820 would bind us what is it

00:35:00.920 that it would keep us

00:35:01.720 together what is it that

00:35:02.460 would benefit us what's the

00:35:03.940 benefit for Atlantic Canada

00:35:05.280 and Western Canada and

00:35:06.560 Central Canada to come

00:35:08.060 together and this is a

00:35:10.100 conversation we should

00:35:10.900 actually not be afraid to

00:35:11.820 have as Canadians because

00:35:13.800 this is the best country in

00:35:14.800 the world I mean you've

00:35:15.320 done a lot of traveling

00:35:15.980 I've done a little bit of

00:35:16.720 traveling I've seen places

00:35:18.060 all around the world this

00:35:19.200 is the best place in the

00:35:20.400 world we have everything we

00:35:21.940 could ever want in this

00:35:23.500 in this country we have all

00:35:24.900 the opportunity and

00:35:25.700 potential we ever want I

00:35:26.840 mean we're hopelessly

00:35:27.480 managed at all levels in

00:35:28.500 government but you know

00:35:29.760 this is why I look at it

00:35:31.340 and think I don't want to

00:35:33.100 tear this country apart

00:35:33.920 let's figure out how we

00:35:34.940 actually strength this

00:35:36.060 country because it can be

00:35:37.520 such a great place it can

00:35:39.200 be the promise quite

00:35:40.720 frankly that it used to be

00:35:42.000 many many decades ago we

00:35:43.880 still have all the

00:35:44.740 building blocks to be

00:35:45.720 able to do that

00:35:46.260 well part of the reason I

00:35:47.560 wanted to talk to you

00:35:48.560 because the podcast has a

00:35:51.040 relatively international

00:35:52.120 audience and so it's

00:35:53.760 always hard to tell when

00:35:55.420 drawing attention to

00:35:56.380 something that's somewhat

00:35:57.240 more local is useful and

00:35:59.720 interesting to that broader

00:36:01.300 audience although it is

00:36:02.560 also quite peculiar and

00:36:04.480 noteworthy that Canadian

00:36:07.040 politics have become of

00:36:08.480 international interest in the

00:36:09.600 last 10 years that's a real

00:36:11.060 change and there are real

00:36:12.320 reasons for that and I

00:36:13.200 think that what's

00:36:14.480 happening in Alberta and

00:36:15.600 in British Columbia are

00:36:16.980 particularly emblematic of

00:36:18.380 why Canada has has become

00:36:20.960 centered in the

00:36:21.620 international spotlight and

00:36:22.800 it's because those are the

00:36:24.200 provinces where the war

00:36:25.600 between the free market

00:36:27.780 people who believe in

00:36:28.980 private property and the

00:36:30.660 kind of free trade that

00:36:32.020 allows people to make

00:36:32.820 choices and genuinely lifts

00:36:34.860 them out of poverty which we

00:36:36.120 know beyond a shadow of a

00:36:37.580 doubt especially after the

00:36:38.680 collapse of the Cold War

00:36:40.400 the collapse of the Soviet

00:36:42.620 Union in the 1980s and the

00:36:44.480 fact that most most

00:36:46.380 countries regardless of how

00:36:47.880 ideologically warped they

00:36:49.120 are started getting a lot

00:36:50.100 richer when they weren't

00:36:51.040 outright communists you

00:36:52.560 really see this battle

00:36:53.500 playing out in Canada in

00:36:54.680 Alberta and in British

00:36:55.640 Columbia the battle

00:36:57.080 between the utopian

00:36:58.520 environment worshipers of

00:37:00.280 the left and their

00:37:01.100 de-industrialization

00:37:02.140 strategy and people who

00:37:03.460 believe more in an English

00:37:05.080 common law tradition private

00:37:06.880 property and the free

00:37:08.500 exchange of goods and

00:37:10.000 services freedom in a word

00:37:11.980 productive freedom and and

00:37:13.620 so let let's delve into the

00:37:15.740 situation in British

00:37:16.700 Columbia now in British

00:37:19.000 Columbia the socialists the

00:37:20.360 new democratic party in

00:37:21.480 Canada have been in power

00:37:22.440 how long have they been in

00:37:23.340 power in power seven years

00:37:24.800 seven years okay and so in

00:37:26.780 your estimation what is the

00:37:28.580 consequence of that well

00:37:30.220 when you look at it I mean

00:37:31.880 our quality of life has

00:37:33.080 declined we've lost almost

00:37:34.600 two-thirds of our forest

00:37:36.160 sector you know people

00:37:37.980 aren't investing in mining

00:37:38.880 nobody wants to invest in

00:37:39.920 this province I think it

00:37:41.360 was something like 70,000

00:37:42.420 people left the province

00:37:43.380 last year a third of

00:37:44.220 British Columbians were

00:37:44.940 looking at leaving people

00:37:46.220 can't buy a house there is

00:37:48.800 this huge problem with

00:37:50.700 drugs and addiction with

00:37:52.220 their safe supply and

00:37:53.320 decriminalization approach

00:37:54.540 that they've taken which

00:37:55.420 is just devastated lives and

00:37:57.280 families and communities and

00:37:58.960 in addition to that you

00:38:00.520 know the efforts they're

00:38:01.280 doing with with

00:38:02.160 indigenous populations

00:38:03.040 first nations is actually a

00:38:04.660 direct assault now on private

00:38:06.200 property rights it's really

00:38:07.660 quite something to see how

00:38:09.340 this is changing in the

00:38:10.360 province and people are

00:38:11.160 waking up and looking and

00:38:12.060 thinking wait a second

00:38:12.860 what's really going on here

00:38:14.500 and I think that's a

00:38:15.700 tributes a lot to why the

00:38:16.960 conservative party in

00:38:17.740 British Columbia has risen so

00:38:19.720 rapidly I mean it's it's a

00:38:21.140 party that's the oldest

00:38:21.900 party in BC's history it was

00:38:23.200 first founded in 1903 but it

00:38:25.260 hasn't formed a government

00:38:25.980 since 1927 it hasn't elected

00:38:28.040 anybody since the 1970s so

00:38:30.200 this is a party that's been in

00:38:31.240 the wilderness but because

00:38:32.640 we're coming with a very

00:38:33.540 different approach talking

00:38:34.540 about this there is a huge

00:38:35.820 appetite for change to move

00:38:37.560 away from these ideologically

00:38:39.000 driven governments that we

00:38:40.560 have had into something

00:38:42.060 that's more focused you know

00:38:43.280 on just the average

00:38:44.020 everyday person so okay a

00:38:46.280 couple of issues there so

00:38:47.920 there is this phenomenon

00:38:49.760 known as the natural resource

00:38:52.700 curse so economists have

00:38:55.340 studied economies all around

00:38:56.720 the world and concluded that

00:38:58.200 polities that are rich in so

00:39:00.720 called natural resources are

00:39:02.040 not more likely than other

00:39:04.100 countries to be wealthy and

00:39:06.120 this is a very important

00:39:07.200 finding because another

00:39:08.920 accepted truism on the left

00:39:11.460 is that wealth is a

00:39:13.100 consequence let's say of

00:39:14.320 natural resources I don't

00:39:15.560 really believe in the concept

00:39:16.540 of natural resource at all

00:39:17.980 air maybe is a natural

00:39:20.200 resource other than that

00:39:21.620 fresh water fresh water is

00:39:23.980 not a bloody natural resource

00:39:25.220 it takes a lot of work to

00:39:26.580 provide a city with natural

00:39:27.940 with fresh water and many

00:39:30.440 people around the world

00:39:31.320 don't have fresh water and

00:39:32.980 certainly fossil fuels and

00:39:36.040 so forth are by no means

00:39:37.180 natural resources because

00:39:38.640 you have to discover them and

00:39:39.840 you have to pump them and

00:39:40.740 you have to refine them and

00:39:41.720 you have to ship them and

00:39:42.660 then you might ask yourself

00:39:44.440 well what is all that

00:39:46.320 activity dependent on and my

00:39:48.560 sense is that activity is

00:39:50.020 dependent on well a complex

00:39:51.960 social environment and one

00:39:53.540 that's predicated on private

00:39:55.160 property and diligent work

00:39:57.860 and trust and so the only

00:40:00.380 real natural resource is one

00:40:02.020 of trust and then the

00:40:03.860 question becomes how do you

00:40:05.000 set up the kind of high

00:40:05.940 trust society that enables

00:40:07.240 people to utilize what's

00:40:08.720 right in front of them

00:40:09.460 productively and this is the

00:40:10.960 war that's going on in

00:40:11.900 British Columbia now you

00:40:13.280 said that two-thirds of the

00:40:14.920 forest sector for example in

00:40:16.420 British Columbia this reminds

00:40:17.860 me I just did a podcast on

00:40:19.180 Venezuela right 70% of what

00:40:22.560 there's been a 70% decrease in

00:40:24.420 GDP in Venezuela and one

00:40:25.740 third of the population

00:40:26.660 one-quarter of the

00:40:27.540 populations actually moved

00:40:29.140 out of Venezuela like

00:40:30.320 vanished completely right

00:40:31.500 and so that's a more

00:40:33.080 extensive form of socialism

00:40:34.420 but you're seeing something

00:40:35.680 that's the Canadian

00:40:38.060 equivalent in British

00:40:39.200 Columbia two-thirds of the

00:40:41.040 forest sector what's

00:40:41.860 happened to the forest

00:40:42.620 sector well what's

00:40:43.680 happened is you've had

00:40:45.000 successive policies that

00:40:46.380 have been brought in by the

00:40:47.240 NDP that have driven up

00:40:48.220 our costs so that we are

00:40:49.800 now certainly by a long

00:40:50.960 shot the highest cost

00:40:51.840 producers and access to the

00:40:54.120 fiber has been severely

00:40:55.260 restricted because of these

00:40:56.500 policies that have been put

00:40:57.620 in place and so you've got a

00:40:59.420 combination of not being

00:41:00.560 able to access the wood you

00:41:02.600 need to run a facility and

00:41:04.840 the cost is so high that you

00:41:06.920 can't make a go of it and so

00:41:08.020 companies are just saying

00:41:09.000 we're out of here we just we're

00:41:10.760 closing our doors we're

00:41:11.620 leaving and and it's just it's

00:41:13.940 it's wrong we have I mean

00:41:15.300 forest products is the most

00:41:16.920 sustainable it's the most

00:41:18.020 environmentally friendly

00:41:18.880 product we can producing we as

00:41:21.180 a province in British

00:41:22.100 Columbia have a tremendous

00:41:23.380 landmass and a tremendous

00:41:24.820 resource of of forest

00:41:26.420 opportunity but it's because

00:41:28.760 of these ideologies and

00:41:30.340 these these cost-driven

00:41:31.400 factors it's you've got a

00:41:32.780 government quite frankly

00:41:33.580 that's more focused on the

00:41:34.740 environmental movement than

00:41:36.080 they are on families and

00:41:37.520 workers and communities and

00:41:39.380 actually providing these

00:41:40.420 products that the world

00:41:41.460 needs well and it's it's the

00:41:43.200 as we pointed out previously

00:41:44.760 too it's a false

00:41:45.880 environmentalism because

00:41:48.080 forests can be managed

00:41:49.400 properly and that can also

00:41:50.580 reduce their fire risk for

00:41:52.160 example if it's done well and

00:41:53.700 that it hasn't been done well

00:41:55.260 at all and there's high fire

00:41:56.560 risk that's blamed on climate

00:41:57.880 change but it's much more

00:41:59.220 appropriate and responsible to

00:42:01.280 blame it on mismanagement and so

00:42:03.480 and you said a third of British

00:42:04.940 Columbians are thinking about

00:42:06.040 leaving and that's absolutely

00:42:07.680 staggering because all the

00:42:10.120 opportunity for British Columbia

00:42:11.600 to be as rich as Norway I would

00:42:13.420 say is it's right there in front of

00:42:15.000 people if they're willing to take

00:42:16.280 it exactly and that's and that is

00:42:18.360 you know where when you got a

00:42:20.320 government that is running

00:42:21.460 massive deficits that's that's

00:42:22.900 born from the future that has

00:42:24.680 you know believes in everything

00:42:26.340 should be run by the public

00:42:27.880 service that's you know has no

00:42:29.920 problem trampling freedoms and no

00:42:31.380 problem trampling you know

00:42:32.680 democratic process you know and

00:42:35.140 and you have a cost structure that

00:42:36.900 is going up and a quality life

00:42:38.640 that's dropping because you've got

00:42:39.720 low GDP and people are just

00:42:42.060 saying okay we're out of here and

00:42:43.420 this is this is a huge thing but

00:42:44.780 you know property rights is in my

00:42:46.580 opinion is is a fundamental core

00:42:48.240 for freedoms in a in a society

00:42:50.260 if your property rights are at

00:42:52.360 risk you know that really

00:42:55.120 underlines or undermines just the

00:42:57.300 core values that you have in a

00:42:58.580 society and we're seeing right now

00:42:59.960 for example there are many

00:43:01.500 properties along the ocean front in

00:43:03.860 certain areas that were sold based

00:43:06.740 on having water access that's how

00:43:09.060 you got access to your property and

00:43:10.920 now the government's coming along

00:43:11.940 taking away that water access we've

00:43:14.020 got situation for example in

00:43:16.140 Haida Gwaii where there has been an

00:43:18.760 agreement between the Haida people

00:43:20.280 and the government to address title

00:43:22.760 and title needs to be addressed and

00:43:24.220 it's part of our constitution but what

00:43:26.320 they've done is they've actually

00:43:27.500 identified title underneath private

00:43:29.980 property rights and so indigenous

00:43:32.560 law will now apply to private

00:43:35.940 properties indigenous law will now say

00:43:38.160 what you can and can't deal with

00:43:39.440 the indigenous law is the indigenous

00:43:41.540 government yeah and then what does

00:43:43.380 that mean like I have a lot of native

00:43:45.280 friends and I just spent some time on

00:43:47.920 Vancouver Island and one of the

00:43:49.160 things that we discussed in detail was

00:43:50.820 banned corruption like there's no

00:43:52.620 reason to assume whatsoever that the

00:43:54.900 indigenous governments that were set

00:43:57.100 up under what what the Indian Act

00:43:59.500 that that produced a wealth of

00:44:02.120 counterproductive and poverty inducing

00:44:03.960 policies have anything to do with

00:44:06.220 indigenous land title and so that's

00:44:09.720 another that's another what would you

00:44:11.440 say that's another nest of snakes that

00:44:13.120 Canadians won't touch because they're

00:44:14.980 afraid of being branded let's say

00:44:16.420 racist but but I tell you so I mean I

00:44:18.820 spent a lot of years as an minister

00:44:21.080 associated with this file and you know I

00:44:23.680 signed 435 agreements with First

00:44:25.620 Nations we did a lot of what I called

00:44:27.340 economic reconciliation with First

00:44:29.460 Nations which is about getting them

00:44:30.660 engaged economically but what we're

00:44:32.440 seeing here now particularly in places

00:44:34.200 like Haida Gwaii so so the property

00:44:35.920 private property rights now you're still

00:44:38.060 going to have the rights to your

00:44:38.760 property but you may not have the rights

00:44:40.580 to be able to do certain things in your

00:44:41.860 property depending on what the laws will

00:44:43.400 be but more importantly now with the

00:44:45.680 Sokutin case which was the first title

00:44:47.680 case in Canada which was the Sokutin

00:44:50.340 people in the Caribou in British Columbia

00:44:52.420 what that said is that indigenous people

00:44:55.440 have the rights to benefit from crown

00:44:58.120 land or from title land and so and where

00:45:01.240 those benefits are taken away by government

00:45:03.440 or government actions government needs to

00:45:05.200 provide an accommodation and so on Haida Gwaii

00:45:07.920 because of private property clearly that

00:45:10.340 would alienate that title land take away

00:45:12.920 the indigenous right to be able to

00:45:14.360 benefit from that property and so there's

00:45:16.660 going to need to be a compensation

00:45:17.700 required and you think Haida Gwaii

00:45:19.540 there's not that much it's two percent of

00:45:20.960 the property it's not that big a deal

00:45:22.220 think of what compensation compensation

00:45:23.980 would be for downtown Vancouver or

00:45:26.060 downtown Victoria or any of the other

00:45:27.880 communities in the province should title

00:45:29.600 be found underneath those areas I mean

00:45:32.220 it's also going to drive racial tension

00:45:33.860 well it's actually it's going to bankrupt

00:45:35.400 the province and and these policies and

00:45:37.480 stuff is is might be fine government to

00:45:39.620 government but it's creating friction from

00:45:41.620 a people to people and to me that's not

00:45:43.600 reconciliation and so these are big issues

00:45:46.300 in British Columbia and that's they've been

00:45:48.760 just idly or just carelessly tossed around by

00:45:52.560 our current government okay let's turn a little

00:45:55.120 bit to to the conservative party more

00:45:58.020 specifically so as you said it's the you said it

00:46:00.740 was the oldest political party in British

00:46:02.840 Columbia but hasn't been in power since the

00:46:04.600 1920s so when did you let well let's walk a

00:46:09.220 little bit through your political history

00:46:10.660 let's walk a little bit through your

00:46:11.920 biography so sure so tell us well tell it

00:46:15.180 tell us to begin with about your political

00:46:17.500 history let's start at the beginning and

00:46:19.380 walk us through that it looks about how far

00:46:21.720 back to go but you know born and raised in

00:46:23.140 Prince George married living just west of

00:46:25.720 Prince George what did your parents do so

00:46:27.560 my parents my dad was in forestry and my

00:46:29.580 mom was actually a stay-at-home mom and to

00:46:33.040 help raise the kids right I had two older

00:46:34.520 brothers through this and so my dad and my

00:46:39.160 mom instilled on me you know entrepreneurial

00:46:41.520 nature that's well so that all my life that

00:46:44.520 was sort of my goal and objective so as I

00:46:46.300 went through you know I ended up starting my

00:46:48.600 own company I had an office in Houston BC and

00:46:50.880 office of Prince George and a dozen people and I

00:46:53.140 was so upset with where politics was going in

00:46:55.880 BC from the 90s when the NDP was in power

00:46:58.100 again I actually sat down with my wife and

00:46:59.960 said what do you think about moving to

00:47:00.880 Calgary I can take my company and do the

00:47:04.360 same business for the resource sector in

00:47:05.860 Alberta's I was doing in British Columbia and

00:47:08.040 so I thought okay we'll wait this out and

00:47:10.020 ultimately we made the decision to stay and

00:47:12.360 in Prince George and that left me with two

00:47:14.400 options either I just live with it yeah or I

00:47:17.260 get involved and try to change it yeah and

00:47:19.040 I'm not kind of person so it was called

00:47:21.080 Western Geographic Information Systems it was

00:47:23.060 doing data analysis for the forest sector a lot

00:47:26.880 of things like forest development plans and

00:47:28.540 timber supply analysis those types of things

00:47:30.260 so I decided like I say we decided to stay and

00:47:33.940 being that I'm not the kind of person that

00:47:36.120 just lives with it I decided to get involved

00:47:38.040 and change it politics was never an ambition

00:47:40.060 of mine it wasn't a goal or objective and so I

00:47:43.220 got involved in the 90s yeah yeah and so in

00:47:45.980 the early 2000s I got involved in politics and

00:47:48.000 then decided actually you know I kind of enjoy

00:47:50.060 this you know I enjoy the fact that you can

00:47:52.100 actually create some policies and make a

00:47:54.140 difference and be able to help people and so I

00:47:56.200 was first elected provincially as a school

00:47:58.360 trustee for three years and then I was first

00:47:59.780 elected provincially in 2005 re-elected you know

00:48:04.060 ever since so it's been almost 20 years now in

00:48:06.000 provincial politics and I served a term in in the

00:48:09.380 Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation

00:48:11.180 I served a very short time as Minister for Forest

00:48:13.520 Lands and Natural Resource Operations and then

00:48:16.000 that was when that was 2013 to 2017

00:48:19.200 so let me let me ask you about your business again one

00:48:22.180 of the things that people who are listening need to

00:48:24.540 understand is that if you're imbued with an

00:48:28.340 entrepreneurial spirit which is actually rather

00:48:30.660 rare right people like to think that everybody's a

00:48:33.580 creator everybody's creative and that you know if you

00:48:37.240 scratch deep enough into everyone's soul you'll find

00:48:39.440 someone who's entrepreneurial and that's not true it's

00:48:41.540 actually quite rare and it's associated with a

00:48:44.120 personality trait known as openness to experience so

00:48:47.200 people tend to be temperamentally entrepreneurial and

00:48:50.060 they're more akin to creative people in general now one of

00:48:53.980 the things about being a creative entrepreneur is that if

00:48:56.560 you're also conscientious and dedicated to your company's

00:48:59.540 success and if you're not it's you're not going to succeed

00:49:03.240 you'll more or less do anything that's appropriate and

00:49:09.720 effective to make your company work because you're not going

00:49:14.300 to throw all your resources into something like that and

00:49:16.380 take those sorts of risks with your capital with your time and

00:49:20.400 then with your employees without being bloody well committed

00:49:23.200 to its success and that does mean you'll move right and so

00:49:27.580 you see this happening in the United States is that the

00:49:29.920 entrepreneurial types are flooding out of California

00:49:32.040 they're flooding out of the more socialist states because

00:49:34.860 it's just too annoying and uncertain and so and it's very

00:49:40.120 dangerous to get a flight like that because it's a small

00:49:42.920 number of people a small percentage of people who are

00:49:45.080 entrepreneurial and if you get rid of them then you don't have

00:49:48.220 anybody who wants to run businesses so you said you were

00:49:50.880 tempted in the 90s to move but you went into the political

00:49:53.340 realm instead and what tell me tell me how your party

00:49:57.480 affiliation has worked across the span of your engagement in

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00:51:18.960 so when i decided to go into politics of course i'm not disposed to the ideology of

00:51:27.000 the left i've always been more on the conservative side of politics although i

00:51:31.460 find it odd because sometimes the federal conservatives think i'm too liberal and

00:51:34.460 the federal liberals think i'm too conservative so who knows what all that

00:51:37.680 means but so i was i looked for the party that most aligned with where i was which

00:51:42.400 was at the time the bc liberal party the bc liberal party was born out of the old

00:51:47.240 social credit party when the social credit party collapsed in 1991 and so i joined that

00:51:52.700 party and i was like i said i was elected and served all the way through up until 2022

00:51:57.260 with that party and you served as a member of the legislative assembly member of the

00:52:00.820 legislative assembly and uh like i say in a couple of cabinet positions as well

00:52:05.500 and in and uh in uh 2022 was a very tough year uh for my family uh my father passed in

00:52:13.540 january my father-in-law passed in february and my mother passed in july or in july and so i was

00:52:20.860 talking with kim about just leaving politics i mean i don't need to be doing this right and so we kind

00:52:25.540 of had this discussion and then along came a paper out of the federal government called the farm

00:52:31.200 farm emissions reduction strategy oh yeah yeah right which was this reduction of the nitrogen-based

00:52:38.100 fertilizer and stopping cows from farting and belching because they think somehow for some reason

00:52:41.740 that's going to change the weather right it's just nonsense but it would have a very negative impact

00:52:45.720 on my riding and so i tried within the party to have a discussion about this the party i was part

00:52:50.100 of and i kept getting shut down shut down so then why why because the leader of the party uh which is

00:52:56.920 now the the bc united party was saying we need to be leaders in fighting climate change we need to be

00:53:02.400 up on the forefront and and that was his whole motto in terms of what he wanted to do and he wasn't

00:53:07.860 willing to look at any evidence or have any discussions about anything that would have an

00:53:11.720 impact on do you think that was a vote getting strategy or a commitment of course it was it was

00:53:16.500 all about votes it was a you know political party that was more about chase trying to chase where they

00:53:21.360 thought they needed to be in the political spectrum as opposed to having any values and so

00:53:25.980 in december i put out a or i mean in august i should say i put out a um a retweet of a patrick

00:53:31.800 more tweet which right questioned some of the role of co2 and talked about the great barrier reef

00:53:36.000 didn't think you mean the thriving great barrier reef the one that is you know doing better than

00:53:41.840 it ever has on record at the moment um so um i've forgotten all about that i even put this thing out

00:53:48.240 there so on wednesday my phone lights up and i was like you know all these phone calls coming i was

00:53:52.860 taking the day off because the next day was my birthday this was august 2022 august yes that was

00:53:57.560 august 17 2022 okay so i made arrangements to talk to the leader on on august 18th which just happened

00:54:03.440 to be my birthday and he called i called him and he was angry i get it you know nobody wants to be

00:54:08.140 put off when there's an issue you want to be able to deal with it right away so i talked to him about

00:54:12.240 it and i said well this is what the problem was and this is what i've been trying to do and and he

00:54:15.400 said look you have a choice you either have to pair to our party position on climate or you can't be

00:54:20.920 part of our caucus and i told him i said look i was elected to represent my riding i was elected to

00:54:26.060 represent the people and they're asking me and they they want a voice that is going to be about

00:54:31.540 helping them not hurting them and he said i'm sorry you know if that's what you feel that's fine

00:54:36.040 he hung up on me and half an hour later is kicked out of caucus and so that then created a very

00:54:41.640 interesting problem for me because once again i was back at the same place i was in the year 2000

00:54:46.680 which was i'm not happy with where things are going on the province there's no chance of a

00:54:52.200 political change because the both parties were basically fighting for the same territory on the

00:54:56.260 left side of the spectrum right and so what do i do do i leave the province do i retire and just

00:55:01.140 leave the province or do i stay involved and actually try to change it and so my wife actually

00:55:05.740 said to me no you need to you need to work on this you need to stay involved but you've got my full

00:55:09.500 support so i so i looked at it and thought okay so i spent some time that fall you know exploring

00:55:14.580 some options and ultimately uh looked at the conservative party which was just a very you know

00:55:19.400 small party representing only about three percent of the people in bc at the time and thought you

00:55:23.540 know what it's time to resurrect it it's time to actually try to do it so i joined that in

00:55:27.400 february of 2023 and took on the leadership at the end of uh march of 2023 and uh you know we've gone

00:55:35.400 from three percent in the polls to tied with the ndp and some polls were actually ahead of the ndp

00:55:40.400 right now going into the election okay there's a few things i want to delve into there on the more

00:55:45.280 personal side the the first is this is a terrible political conundrum that people should be aware of

00:55:51.900 in my experience there is an awful lot of narcissistic exhibitionism in politics and

00:55:58.700 that's not a useful brush to tar all politicians with but it's something worth focusing on so you

00:56:04.280 see this in entertainment you see it in the media and you see it in politics and the reason for that

00:56:09.100 is that people who are temperamentally narcissistic so they're extroverted and disagreeable those are

00:56:14.340 the personality predictors and it's even worse if they're unconscientious that's you're starting to

00:56:18.340 border on psychopathy at that point that's not good because you want to be the center of attention

00:56:22.900 you don't give a damn about other people that's low agreeableness and you're completely unreliable

00:56:27.860 with regards to your word those are that's a bad combination there's a disproportionate number of

00:56:32.860 people like that in any domain where there's a lot of public attention okay so it's it's going to

00:56:39.300 happen on the political front okay so now how do you get competent politicians well this is a real

00:56:45.560 problem because most competent people are already doing something especially if they're say 40 and

00:56:52.740 above they've got a career that's usually well established that's quite productive or if they

00:56:57.700 happen to be overachievers they've got quite a little empire you know i have some friends who are

00:57:01.620 hyper successful and i've talked to them about entering the political arena and their comment often

00:57:06.800 is i would be less effective in the political role than i am doing what i'm already doing because

00:57:11.960 they'd have to put all that on hold as well and so what that means is that not only are there a

00:57:17.100 disproportionate number of self-serving narcissists in the political realm is that it's very difficult

00:57:22.300 to get people who are actually competent playing the political game because it's difficult it is very

00:57:29.480 difficult you have to have a very thick hide too to withstand the slings and arrows of your opponents

00:57:34.980 and all the lies that come at you like i don't think i can tolerate that quite frankly i don't think i have

00:57:39.820 the constitution for it um in any case you have this option because you had your own company which

00:57:46.520 you could expand more or less in accordance with your competence but you decided repeatedly to stay

00:57:52.180 in the political realm you also said your wife supported you and that's that's also very interesting

00:57:56.660 because it would have been easier in some ways for her to just have you around and to have all that

00:58:02.480 stress out of your life so what is it about the relationship you have with your wife that

00:58:06.840 has held you two together in the political realm and why is she supporting you given the

00:58:13.880 personal costs let's say that might be associated with that well and i guess it goes back when we

00:58:19.940 were married uh which was in 1995 we've been married now uh you know 29 years coming up on 30 years

00:58:25.140 uh shortly after uh we got married you know we talked about raising a family and um so unfortunately

00:58:31.800 my wife had cancer and uh she had cervical cancer which uh was caught at an early stage

00:58:37.380 and um and so she was treated and and she's now 24 years um cancer free which is which is wonderful

00:58:44.260 right i mean the the today in in in british columbia i have doctors telling me that it was fortunate

00:58:49.960 it happened back then because that may not have been the same outcome today yeah that's for sure so

00:58:53.640 that's the health care stuff and we can get into that yes definitely you know and so my wife knew i

00:58:58.540 wanted to have children so yeah she actually said to me um at the time uh shortly after in recovery

00:59:04.640 she said you know i release you from our marriage because i know you would like to have children and

00:59:09.700 i told her i said no we were married for better for worse for sickness and health for richer for

00:59:14.580 poorer so we're building this life together and so we've been partners in everything that we have

00:59:19.100 done uh throughout our life uh whether it's going into business and these kinds of these kinds of

00:59:23.820 approaches and so when it came to politics um she she could see that uh there was an opportunity

00:59:29.940 but more importantly she could see that there was a need in our society which is why she was so

00:59:33.920 she pushed me so hard she'd been pushed me for years to go into leadership and i never wanted to

00:59:38.320 because it wasn't a burning desire but there's a job that needs to be done and you know i'm willing

00:59:43.420 to step up and do that job and so that's so she she like i say she was one who really pushed me

00:59:48.760 to actually come in and do what i'm doing here today so so let's talk about your experiences in

00:59:55.220 politics so you you weren't this wasn't a burning desire but you became an mla a member of the

01:00:01.500 legislative assembly a representative of your constituency what did you what did you learn

01:00:07.120 as an mla that you hadn't learned as a business person how did that expand your conception of the

01:00:13.980 world you know it's it's interesting that the most stress i've ever felt and believe me i've i've

01:00:18.540 talked to crowds of tens of thousands right and and you've public speaking as you know can be a

01:00:22.560 terrifying experience for many people the most stress i've ever felt actually was when i hired my

01:00:27.200 first um person out of ontario because that person now i've uprooted them from their life they're just

01:00:34.240 out of school they're coming over and they're very reliant now on me providing them with work and

01:00:38.300 providing them with their future and i took that experience from the work side and a lot about that

01:00:42.940 from politics and and so the most rewarding thing in politics is the same thing

01:00:47.180 being able to find ways to be able to support people and help people so for example you know

01:00:52.440 a grandmother that's trying to adopt their grandchild helping them through the system to be able to do

01:00:56.640 that or you know two elderly parents that need to get a wheelchair for their 42 year old daughter

01:01:02.800 and needing you know help to help to get through these systems all those sort of things it's there's

01:01:07.660 a certain amount of reward that comes with doing that and so when i was the minister for aboriginal

01:01:12.240 relations reconciliation uh with all the agreements i signed uh there was one time where one of the

01:01:17.860 chiefs assigned agreement was in tears and i and i thought oh my gosh no like what have we done

01:01:22.600 this isn't good and he said no no you don't understand five children five kids had attempted

01:01:28.340 suicide the previous week and tragically one had died and this was an agreement that could make a

01:01:33.920 difference that could actually give those children hope give them an opportunity to be able to build a

01:01:38.620 future there's a certain amount certain thing that's very rewarding in terms of being able to

01:01:42.940 do those types of things for society and so to me that's that's what really drives what i'm doing is

01:01:48.260 because in politics it's unlike anything else there's nothing else no other experience like it

01:01:53.040 where you can actually make decisions that can improve people's quality of lives that can

01:01:57.680 help people to be able to become whoever it is that they're going to be and so there's a real appeal

01:02:04.280 to that for me personally and it's it's very gratifying yeah well you know huh i talked to this

01:02:10.520 navy ex-navy seal i think it was next i think it was a navy seal it's one of the american special

01:02:16.000 forces jocko willink and jocko's quite the bloody monster he's about three feet thick and he's

01:02:21.060 he makes joe joe joe rogan isn't very tall but he's tough and and built and you know jocko makes joe

01:02:27.540 look like a midget he's a really tough guy and he said that you know when he was a kid he could have

01:02:32.520 been a pretty bad guy he wanted to be a soldier from the time he was three and he's just wired that

01:02:37.320 way physically and mentally and then he went off to military training and he started mentoring other

01:02:43.060 people and he said that was so much more rewarding than anything else he ever did that nothing compared

01:02:47.540 and it's very interesting you know because it's so easy and this has to do with narcissism as well

01:02:53.040 it's so easy for people to feel that you know if they had resources at their disposal that they could

01:02:58.360 do anything they want and and and and and be let's say more sexually attractive and to to have

01:03:06.620 the advantages that they assume would go along with unlimited power resources and the pathological

01:03:12.800 part of that is that there isn't anything that is more meaningful in the deep sense than being of

01:03:18.240 service to other people and like that's a deep paternal instinct and it's a mark of paternal maturity that

01:03:25.640 you find gratification in that right and it's it's a sacrificial gratification and it is the basis for

01:03:32.140 a competent society you know the the lefties in particular the post-modern types who insist that

01:03:39.240 everything is about power they just reveal their own narcissistic hand as far as i'm concerned in that

01:03:44.300 philosophy because everything isn't about power if you think everything's about power you haven't got

01:03:49.480 anywhere near the core of what makes it valuable to be a human being because you find all of that value

01:03:55.340 in service to other people well this is something i see more you know time and time again with the

01:04:00.400 people on the left um their ideology is more important than anything else and so they will often

01:04:08.360 sometimes be violent um they will take away rights of other people because they believe that the ends

01:04:14.860 is justified and so it's it's it's crazy you know when you look at what the negative impact will be

01:04:21.700 uh for what they're actually doing because but they think it's for this greater good

01:04:25.860 and it's an ideology that i struggle with quite frankly i i just something that just doesn't come

01:04:31.500 to me naturally yeah well and it would be all right as far as i was concerned if it was actually

01:04:35.460 for the greater good if that was actually at the bottom of it but i don't think it is i think that

01:04:40.100 the easy moralizing that's part and parcel of the utopian strain of central planning thinking

01:04:47.420 it has very little to do with even the end what it has to do with is the possibility that you can

01:04:54.360 be identified in the moment with someone promoting a positive end as someone promoting a positive end

01:05:00.060 and also with no sacrificial requirement on your part if other people have to pay for your utopia you

01:05:05.820 don't have any skin in the game yes and so we have these false solutions see this is the this goes

01:05:11.320 back to the environmental issue it's like the left the worldwide green left is willing to sacrifice

01:05:16.800 the poor of the present for their hypothetical poor of the future and that's that's that's that

01:05:23.200 borders on that borders on evil or crosses the line as far as i'm concerned you know and i often think

01:05:29.080 about it just from perspective of people ask me why why am i doing this and i i explain this you know

01:05:34.480 in terms of what i'm doing but really it's it's you know i'm i'm planting my flag on a hill i'm saying

01:05:39.460 this is it this is the fight that is worth fighting this is the battle that is worth taking on

01:05:44.140 because it's the society i want to live in right i don't want to live in that society that you've

01:05:50.400 just described and that they're trying to build i don't want to live in that because in my opinion

01:05:55.020 if that's what it's going to be i'm going to look at going elsewhere yeah i mean why would i why would

01:05:59.040 i live there right it does it's not an enjoyable experience it's not something that is fulfilling

01:06:03.740 why would you want to live in that kind of misery and so to me this is the fight that is worth

01:06:09.780 that is worth taking on okay so let's delve into the nitty-gritty this is another reason i wanted

01:06:14.340 to talk to you too because i'm i'm always interested in talking to politicians who have

01:06:18.980 done something that's of that's what um difficult to believe the first politician i spoke with

01:06:28.120 publicly this is way before things blew up around me was preston manning and i was interested in it

01:06:33.760 was also the first time i ran into cancel culture it was so interesting because i'd run this little

01:06:38.420 salon at the university of toronto that was composed of graduate students and professors

01:06:42.840 and these were all friends of mine and colleagues and very very smart people it was really fun we met

01:06:47.740 about every week and uh i'd invite people in and we'd have a discussion and the graduate students

01:06:53.120 would join in it was great fun and then preston manning reached out to me because his nephew i think

01:06:58.700 no his son was in my class and liked it and suggested to his father that he make contact with me so that

01:07:05.980 happened and so i invited him to come to this salon and not to discuss political issues i wanted to

01:07:11.580 ask him how in the world he managed to create a political party from scratch because that's really

01:07:16.800 hard you know like what did you do to bring people together so rapidly because he rose from nowhere to

01:07:23.200 become leader of the opposition and then eventually joined rejoined forces with the conservative party

01:07:28.660 with the and but but but it's a remarkable story it happens now in the then in the west you're kind

01:07:33.980 of doing it again in bc so i wanted him to come and just say how he did it you know and a bunch of my

01:07:39.940 professor friends wouldn't come this was like in 2014 2013 i thought what do you mean he won't come

01:07:47.160 it's like he was leader of the opposition because they thought he was far right you know which was

01:07:52.400 absolutely preposterous but in any case i actually didn't care about his politics at that point it was

01:07:58.460 like well you built a political party how do you do that that's hard and it's psychologically

01:08:03.040 interesting anyways three or four of my friends didn't show up which well like i said that was the

01:08:09.480 first time i ran into cancel culture now you didn't start a political party from scratch but you did

01:08:14.760 more or less like you took something that had a history and preston had done in some ways the same thing

01:08:19.360 how exactly have you managed to bring the conservatives from essential obscurity up into

01:08:26.980 the position where they're an actual contender for the throne in the next election the elections win

01:08:30.860 october october 19th october 19th okay so so we're getting we're cutting close to the wire here so

01:08:36.140 what did you do what's the nitty-gritty of what you did and why do you think it was effective

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01:10:03.040 for the formula of doing this it's just hard work and so the first time you go out and you talk to

01:10:08.980 people you have seven or ten or twelve people that'll come out then they like what they hear and so they

01:10:16.020 invite friends next time you come back you've got 30 or 40 people next time you come back you've got 70

01:10:20.180 or 80 people and if you've hit it right if you've hit it right if you're if you're hitting the tones that

01:10:25.200 they want to hear and if you what you're talking about is reflective in what they're looking for

01:10:31.620 and i also you know i'm a firm believer that politics is not so much about policy although

01:10:37.780 policy obviously is it drives everything that the that results from politics but if i talk to people

01:10:44.440 and give a speech more often than not most people won't remember much of what i've said yeah they might

01:10:49.940 latch on to a few little ideas or things that they've touched into but what they get from it is

01:10:55.480 is a feeling yeah it's whether it is you know you're authentic or whether it is they're happy or whether

01:11:00.320 they're angry or whatever that may be and that often drives people far more than you know they're

01:11:06.540 trying to figure out if they can trust you or get something from you let's say those might be the

01:11:10.720 options it's whether it's whether or not you know you align whether or not they're comfortable

01:11:14.720 and you know no one will ever be 100 aligned with everybody but that has been a big piece of what

01:11:20.340 we've been doing and so right from day one of doing this i hit the road i just went out and lived out

01:11:26.180 of a suitcase and went traveling everywhere around the province connecting with people talking to

01:11:29.940 business people talking to the average everyday person and just you know slowly building up these

01:11:35.460 these groups of support and uh and it's just it's been this multiplier effect that's just been

01:11:40.840 growing okay what it's tapped into really is that desire for change because there's people that are

01:11:46.200 so upset with what is going on in society i mean when you've got these tent cities and these drug

01:11:50.880 dens and all these things happening all over the place and crime is rampant and criminals are just

01:11:55.420 getting a slap on the wrist and put it back out on the street um you know and and they don't like

01:11:59.680 what's going on the education system and and the economy you know is sputtering and the inflation

01:12:04.360 all that people are just looking at it thinking this is nuts we need change and so you know we're

01:12:09.020 tapping into that desire for change many ways um that is in a way that people can look at and say

01:12:14.760 yes that is the direction that we would like to go with okay so we talked earlier with regards to

01:12:20.840 the liberal party because you said you have to hit the right tones let's say okay but when we talked

01:12:26.180 earlier about the liberal party one of the things you pointed out was that and and your unhappiness with

01:12:31.000 the fact that the liberal party in your estimation was using the climate issue as a means of garnering

01:12:37.580 votes and that that was inappropriate so what's the difference in your estimation between attending

01:12:44.100 to the people that you're speaking with and providing them with a message that they need and

01:12:48.900 want to hear and playing a false populist game like how do you personally how do you balance the

01:12:55.040 necessity of having principles in your discussions in your speeches and and pandering to the crowd

01:13:01.980 and and do you think you've walked that line successfully how do you distinguish those things

01:13:06.560 so what it has to come down to is just the principles of what you're trying to do and so when you're when

01:13:12.940 you're talking to the crowd you always have to talk from the perspective of you know what's in your

01:13:17.860 heart what is what is the belief what are the things that you are are standing for what is it that

01:13:23.120 you've planted your flag on and saying this is who we are this is what we're going to do and there's

01:13:28.220 many people initially that were very skeptical that you know weren't supportive but as you start

01:13:32.800 talking through the issues and and showing the approach that you can take more and more people

01:13:37.520 open up to the idea and to and to what you're trying to do so that's i haven't had to compromise

01:13:42.420 any of the sort of values or principles that i've been trying to promote right from the beginning

01:13:47.120 we've carried forward with those same principles all the way through and i think that's the only way

01:13:51.940 that people can judge you as to whether you're authentic or not is you know are you flip-flopping

01:13:56.360 around on issues do you change you know are you putting your finger up in the air trying to figure

01:14:01.060 out where to go or are you standing on your values and plowing forward so one of the strangest things

01:14:05.740 we've seen in recent years and there are plenty of them is this emergent confusion about just what

01:14:11.040 constitutes a woman and a man and we saw that played out pretty dramatically at the olympics and

01:14:15.500 that's not over yet because the boxer who won is going to sue elon musk and jk rowling essentially for

01:14:21.640 defamation and hate speech i know that your party has been involved in clarifying the distinction

01:14:28.120 between the men men and women with regards to say participation in sports and also for the

01:14:33.560 protection of women's private spaces you have a little badge there made of moose hide i believe

01:14:38.060 that's emblematic about you want to explain that a little bit sure so um this this fall or yeah this

01:14:44.480 sorry this past spring we introduced a piece of legislation the first in canada that actually was

01:14:49.840 called the fairness for women and girls in sports and what it's designed to do is say that biological

01:14:54.840 men cannot compete against women and girls in sports in british columbia and the intent to that

01:14:59.920 is not to exclude anybody but not to take the rights of one people to give to the rights of another

01:15:06.160 people and i think quite frank it's important that the rights of everybody should be able to be

01:15:10.780 protected and particularly for you know women and girls if they want to you know for example go

01:15:15.140 after scholarships or whatever it is and they want to be able to compete at high levels you know

01:15:19.720 they should be able to compete fairly and the reason for actually bringing that in is because of

01:15:23.720 uh i so in my riding first nation started up a program called the moose hide campaign and it

01:15:29.820 actually started from the fellow me and paul assert his daughter's now taking on raven and and they've

01:15:34.340 expanded it gone right across the country and we were actually as minister we actually gave them

01:15:37.880 some seed money to get this program up and running and be able to expand but what it is is about men

01:15:43.460 talking to men about honoring and protecting women and girls and trying to end the violence against women

01:15:48.180 and girls and so you know i i wear this frequently in uh in reflection of that but it's also you know

01:15:54.700 part of the inspiration to be able to to move forward and act like we were like we did last spring

01:15:59.200 and the interesting part was the left wouldn't even allow it on the floor they voted against it they

01:16:04.220 wouldn't even let it pass first reading and first reading is usually just a formality

01:16:07.640 before and then it gets called for further debate they wouldn't even let it get past first reading

01:16:12.080 they voted against it so leah sapir tweeted out yesterday some data in the u.s that seemed to

01:16:18.100 indicate that about somewhere around 8 000 minor girls in the last five years have used insurance

01:16:26.320 money to obtain double mastectomies with the gender affirming on the gender affirming front which i

01:16:32.620 have tweeted out and made a fair a lot of noise about this is i think that that is i think it's the

01:16:39.500 worst form of quasi-criminal behavior that i've seen among the professional community since the

01:16:44.460 horrors of world war ii and i know that danielle smith brought in legislation pretty early to address

01:16:49.880 the issue of surgical transformation sterilization and so forth of minors in alberta and took a fair

01:16:57.220 bit of flack for that um any comments about that domain it's related to what you just described so

01:17:02.920 my perspective is um you know we need to make sure that we're supporting people whoever they are

01:17:07.400 and make sure that we have that support in place particularly through education you know through

01:17:11.920 the very challenging formative years in terms of having that support for them having that support

01:17:15.840 that even can extend to families but as a province um i do not believe it is the right thing to do

01:17:21.640 to support any kind of procedure that would sterilize a child they are not old enough to make those kind

01:17:27.860 of decisions uh who knows where they'll want to be in their future and i just think as a as a

01:17:32.500 province we need to do everything we can to be able to protect children and children defined as what up

01:17:37.220 to what age have you well that's that's that's a good question yeah i mean it's at least 15 16 but

01:17:41.560 it could very easily be considered 18 but regardless of that i just don't believe that as a province

01:17:46.560 that we should be doing that like i say children i mean having children is is precious taking that away

01:17:52.420 from children before they have their formative years and and are able to understand who they are and

01:17:57.140 what they want to be in life uh i just think it's just the wrong thing to do okay okay all right well

01:18:03.180 we'll leave that issue at that i think for now you said that when you first hit the road your initial

01:18:10.520 crowds weren't crowds at all they were very small groups of people and then it was essentially word

01:18:14.900 of mouth which is a much more powerful force than people think that started the crowds to expand

01:18:20.480 so i'm curious why weren't you what it was it in your attitude and approach that allowed you not to

01:18:28.700 be demoralized when you were first going out and speaking to very small groups of people you know

01:18:34.300 why did you conclude that this was worth pursuing despite the fact that you know you were starting

01:18:38.440 from a three percent baseline like were you curious or did you believe that much in your principles or

01:18:42.900 like what is it that made you think that that was worth pursuing so as i mentioned before

01:18:49.460 right i looked at this from perspective of we need change um and i didn't want to just you know

01:18:55.160 live with it and so for me this was a matter of going out and and presenting an option and i was

01:19:02.560 fully prepared to go through if it didn't connect it didn't connect with people i was okay with that

01:19:06.900 it's not okay i'm not on some why were you okay with that because it's not about narcissism it's not

01:19:12.200 about you know any sort of anything for me personally this is just it's to me it's the right thing to do

01:19:18.080 we need to get society going into different directions so i was perfectly prepared and i

01:19:22.720 still am prepared right to go forward these are the things i stand for this is what i what i'm

01:19:26.820 trying to do in british columbia and try to convince people to support us because it's the right thing to

01:19:31.500 do right and if that doesn't work you can go back to your other life if it doesn't work you know well

01:19:36.000 then you know i can sleep well at night i know that i stood for for the values and principles that

01:19:42.000 i feel were important and that i think i want to be able to see reflected in our society okay so

01:19:47.320 you you mentioned when when we first met when we met today you also said that you're not using

01:19:53.500 pre-prepared speeches so what do you do what do you do when you speak then and how do you decide what

01:19:58.840 you're going to talk about often i read the crowd okay but it's but many times there's there's

01:20:04.160 set things that i want to talk about the values and things that we want to do whether it's changing

01:20:08.400 the education system whether it is you know ending decriminalization and and safe supply that kind

01:20:13.940 of thing whether it's getting our economy going the significant change that's needed in our health

01:20:18.320 care system our health care system is absolutely crazy we need to be looking at those european

01:20:22.840 models for example that are universal health care but delivered by both government and non-government

01:20:27.180 agencies right so there's all these changes so i'll talk about those i'll talk about what the

01:20:31.740 problems are and i'll talk about what i think the solutions can be in terms of what we do as a

01:20:36.420 society and so and it depends on you know which crowd i'm in whether it's you know up in the north

01:20:41.060 or in the terry or whether it's down in the lower mainland or on the island as to i doesn't i don't

01:20:45.640 change what i'm saying i change the topics that i may be talking about and focusing on just because

01:20:51.780 you know i know i i believe those topics are more relevant for a crowd say in victoria than it

01:20:57.780 is for a crowd in in say fort st john yeah well it's been remarkable to watch what's happened to

01:21:03.420 the health care system in the last particularly in the last five years i think my wife we live in

01:21:08.300 ontario i think my wife has been without a physician for four years and my physician is moving and i have

01:21:13.780 no idea how i'm going to replace him fundamentally i mean i have options obviously but and options that

01:21:20.640 most people don't have but it's it's very it's very very interesting to me to watch what's

01:21:27.640 happening to the health care system because it's been a it's been a real pride point for

01:21:35.100 canadians and even more specifically for the left the success of canada's socialized medicare

01:21:40.640 medicare system and it's not an easy problem to solve partly because even the concept of health

01:21:47.940 care in some ways is ridiculous it's much too comprehensive to be considered as something that's

01:21:52.720 a unit but we have free health care in canada it's not free because we pay taxes but it's also

01:21:59.260 not free in a very another very fundamental way which is that dying waiting is not free

01:22:06.240 wondering you know having for example when my daughter needed an ankle replacement when she was 16

01:22:13.280 the waiting list was three years and she was walking essentially walking around at that point on two

01:22:19.060 broken legs it's like three years hey that that's not three years that's death because there's no way

01:22:25.940 you walk around on two broken legs for three years and make it through that that doesn't happen to

01:22:30.260 people and so the waiting list approach to cost is not effective and so in canada now we're in a

01:22:39.600 situation where you can't get the care you need often you can't even get on a waiting list to to see a

01:22:44.800 specialist that would provide that care and you can't have private insurance to cover you and you

01:22:50.720 can't pay for it so the rationing system in canada for health care is you get to die waiting right

01:22:57.360 that's not free in british columbia and we don't actually collect these stats because government likes

01:23:02.720 to operate in secret which is a whole different topic but looking at the national stats we have the

01:23:10.360 number of people dying in british columbia today on a daily basis waiting for diagnostic services or

01:23:16.560 surgery is comparable to the number of people who are dying from the opioid crisis and nobody's

01:23:21.120 talking about it yeah and it's crazy like this is i find that completely unexpected say that again

01:23:26.400 the number of people who are dying wait on a waiting list for diagnostic services and surgery

01:23:31.840 in british columbia is comparable to the number of people who are dying of overdose deaths in british

01:23:38.680 columbia because of the opioid crisis right right well it seems to me that in canada right now and

01:23:43.100 i truly believe this that there are so many things happening that at a level that's actually

01:23:49.840 scandalous that no one can keep up i've really watched this with trudeau because it's something

01:23:55.260 remarkable for me to see like about every two weeks the trudeau government has a scandal of

01:24:01.300 sufficient magnitude under normal circumstances to collapse a competent government and yet nothing

01:24:07.980 happens and then the next scandal comes along it's because people have lost faith in reporting

01:24:13.300 because there's so much information out there so actually i actually one of the things i want to do

01:24:18.060 is change politics forever in british columbia and what i want to do is we have what's called freedom

01:24:21.940 of information requests right you have all this information which is public information and if you

01:24:26.280 want it you have to pay a certain amount of money and you can you can apply to access it and you'll

01:24:31.280 months later you might get some redacted document right that you get i'm going to change that i'm going to get

01:24:36.400 rid of a freedom of information request because i'm going to make all of the information that can

01:24:39.460 be made public public like they didn't live in mania of the freedom information officer should

01:24:43.880 be to say what can't be made public right give the people the facts yeah give them the information

01:24:49.240 and then it's no longer politicians that are giving spin but politicians that are responding to the facts

01:24:55.460 and you can judge political parties based on facts as opposed to based on whatever spin they're giving

01:25:01.020 try to build some confidence and a little bit you know restore some of that confidence back in

01:25:06.480 government and government institutions that's being lost and continually eroded particularly because of

01:25:10.640 what's going on with the with the politics of the left okay do you think that you have garnered

01:25:16.240 sufficient management and administrative experience to run a province from from the combination of your

01:25:24.560 work as a private entrepreneur an mla you were a cabinet minister for a while so how do you feel

01:25:30.980 about your competence as an administrative leader but then also equally importantly what makes you

01:25:37.140 convinced that among the ranks of the conservative party you have enough talent to formulate a cabinet

01:25:42.560 that will be made of people who are competent enough to do the job properly i know for example when the

01:25:48.860 democrats took power in washington i know this for a fact that they knew amongst themselves that they

01:25:54.980 didn't have anywhere near enough competent people to fill the positions that needed to be filled hence

01:25:59.060 the situation and part of the problem with the situation in the u.s but it is a big problem it's like

01:26:03.800 you're you're running a huge enterprise it's certainly equivalent to a major corporation like a major

01:26:10.140 international 85 billion 89 billion right right right so so why you what do you bring to the table as a

01:26:17.720 not only as a leader who can speak directly to people but more importantly as an administrator

01:26:22.820 and a manager and and how do you know that you have people around you that can actually do this job

01:26:28.860 credibly well i mean i'm perfectly willing to admit that you know i'm probably going to make a few

01:26:37.020 mistakes i mean that's just no one's perfect however what i do know is i know how government works i know

01:26:43.340 the process of how government works um you know i'm more than capable from my perspective of being

01:26:48.880 able to to manage and govern and direct uh both the people involved as well as the bureaucracy which

01:26:54.940 is a huge part of the change that is going to be needed uh in terms of getting things done we've got a

01:27:00.640 very good group of people that are running for us with a an enormous variety of skill sets everything

01:27:06.640 from lawyers and doctors to uh you know prominent business people very successful business people

01:27:12.120 entrepreneurs to farmers um you know to local politicians and i also have a handful of people

01:27:19.040 who have been in government for not in not in cabinet um but one of the persons being cabinet but

01:27:24.540 have been you know as mlas and so i've got a good mix of people to be able to draw from that i think have

01:27:30.000 the experience that we need to be able to move forward the agenda on top of that of course one of the big

01:27:34.480 pieces is the transition right you're coming into this and the ndp have had seven years to put all

01:27:40.580 other people in place and all their ideology driven everywhere infiltrated throughout throughout the

01:27:44.940 system so we need to come in and i've got a transition team that we've already been building

01:27:49.580 and working on to come in and help us with making some changes that are needed so that we have that

01:27:54.900 supportive layers within the bureaucracy to be able to push forward our agenda as well and so i mean

01:28:01.240 it's going to be a lot of change believe me there's a lot of work that needs to be done and

01:28:04.220 over a very short period of time but i've said to my colleagues that are running for me i've said

01:28:09.400 look be prepared for a lot of work you're going to be putting in long hours there is a lot to do

01:28:14.440 in a short period of time and uh you know i'm going to be i guess you could say quite a taskmaster

01:28:19.720 make sure that it gets done yeah well it's you have that combination of entrepreneurial business

01:28:26.620 and political experience that's relatively rare to have all three of those so that's well that's

01:28:31.960 something you definitely have under your belt let's talk about education for a minute so i want

01:28:36.140 to put forward um a couple of propositions and tell you tell me what you think about them so i've been

01:28:42.660 speaking with republican governors and the republicans i know in the u.s and that's quite a few of them as

01:28:47.380 well as conservatives in canada about the k-12 education system as well as the higher education

01:28:53.380 system but let's start with k-12 so i want to run another proposition by you so i worked in the

01:28:59.720 universities for a long time and i saw how they worked and i worked at harvard which was

01:29:04.120 an unbelievable unbelievably functional institution in the 1990s i'd never been anywhere like it mcgill

01:29:10.120 was good i went to school as a graduate student at mcgill and i had a very good educational

01:29:15.100 experience there and mcgill did a lot of things right but harvard was really knocking it out of the

01:29:19.120 park when i was there in the 90s um the senior faculty were the smartest people i'd ever met and the

01:29:24.800 most educated the uh undergraduates were unbelievably high quality like a third of them were the smartest

01:29:30.800 kids you'd ever seen and the other two-thirds were they were contenders you know and so and uh

01:29:37.700 the place really served excellence and so and then you could see the edges of the politically correct

01:29:43.700 movement manifesting itself around the fringes in the 1990s but they really didn't have any real

01:29:49.100 power the last time i was down in boston was about a month ago i met some of my former colleagues

01:29:54.600 great people really and uh they've all joined the free speech movement at harvard and they set

01:29:59.500 themselves at odds with the administration which is an appalling thing to see you know and that's

01:30:04.520 harvard and then i was at the university of toronto for a long time and it made a lot of noise about

01:30:10.000 excellence but really had no fun no real fundamental clue about what it meant or how to pursue it and

01:30:15.080 and uh but i had a very good time there and and i liked it a lot but i learned a lot about what was

01:30:21.560 wrong with higher education and emblematic of what's wrong with higher education is the faculties

01:30:27.400 of education okay they're full of educational psychologists and that's a corrupt discipline

01:30:31.800 and almost everything that it's produced is a lie whole word learning that's a lie that antiphonics

01:30:36.960 movement the self-esteem movement that's complete bloody lie and all it did was produce a pack of

01:30:41.620 narcissists um multiple intelligences that's complete bloody lie like the educational psychologists

01:30:48.500 have been a negative influence consistently for 60 years and the the faculties of education have

01:30:55.820 arguably the worst students in the university and arguably the worst faculty now why is that a problem

01:31:01.520 well they're radical and incompetent that's a big problem in the united states they control 50 percent of

01:31:07.660 the state budgets 50 percent okay and the faculties of education are why the conservatives lost the

01:31:14.420 culture war and the conservatives have been too blind for four generations to see this and there's a

01:31:21.160 nexus point the faculties of education have a hammerlock on teacher certification and i don't

01:31:28.280 understand that they there's no evidence whatsoever that their training regimens produce qualified teachers

01:31:33.800 none we also even know what makes a teacher effective conscientiousness is the trait high cognitive ability

01:31:39.980 and conscientiousness you can select them why what's your view of what's corrupted the k-12 education system

01:31:47.200 and what do you think might be done about it because like i think that the faculties of education should have

01:31:52.080 the right to certify teachers stripped from them it would kill them and they deserve it

01:31:56.800 and i think the reason that classic liberals and the conservatives have lost the culture wars because

01:32:03.800 the faculties of education have had a hammerlock on teacher certification so i know that's a mouthful

01:32:09.420 and it's a radical analysis and a radical proposition but i'm wondering what you think of what's going on

01:32:14.760 in the k-12 system as a homeowner some of the most tedious and easily forgotten maintenance tasks are often

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01:33:27.920 senior or military discount one discount per household so i'm smiling because uh when i think about the

01:33:34.720 education system the big first thing that comes to mind is our education system in british columbia today

01:33:39.660 is teaching kids what to think it's not teaching kids how to think it's not teaching kids how to be

01:33:45.660 critical thinkers and that is to me is the fundamental problem within the system itself and so there's

01:33:52.540 material that is within our education system which is designed for more of an indoctrination as opposed to

01:34:02.880 actually providing kids with the skills they need kids are coming out of school and university professors

01:34:07.720 called specialists are telling me they're not prepared for anything secondary they can't read and they don't

01:34:12.960 know anything some people can't even write their own name and so i look at the system i think okay

01:34:17.600 what is needed to start with is we need to do a full review of all the material that's being made available

01:34:22.760 for teachers so and look at it from the perspective of being neutral who would review it do you know

01:34:29.720 how i think you've got to put a team together that's going to review it and so it's going to be some educators

01:34:34.520 going to be some people that are not educators who are going to go through and look at the material

01:34:38.580 from that critical lens and so you know for example there's i think a book in grade four math i think

01:34:44.080 it's called math that matters and the math is correct two plus two equals four but the language being used

01:34:49.700 is all about environmentalism it's all social justice oriented exactly it's all about you know

01:34:54.100 anti-development and that whole side of things so we wonder when the kids go to school why

01:34:58.520 the wife got this bent and because this is what they've been taught yeah it's what they've been

01:35:02.640 documented from day one day for 12 years yeah so we're going to try to change all of that right

01:35:07.660 in terms of material make sure it's all neutral in terms of how the information is being provided

01:35:11.880 and quite frankly we need to bring in something you know that i think is critical fiscal management

01:35:16.440 you know teaching kids about how money actually works compound interest and you know debt and all

01:35:21.720 those sort of things so those those will be some big shifts that we need to do and the fight

01:35:26.380 okay so let me let me ask you a question about that so why neutral exactly like why not unabashedly

01:35:34.260 anti-communist unabashedly pro-free market unabashedly western tradition of freedom you know

01:35:40.740 because i think i'm i'm it seems to me that one of the errors that conservatives and classic liberals

01:35:48.800 have made consistently across time is a kind of apologetic neutrality so i'll give you one example

01:35:56.360 so at the university of toronto in my personality course so it's a psychology course second year

01:36:02.880 psychology course i used to teach the kids about what happened in stalinist russia and i did that

01:36:08.480 because i used alexander solzhenitsyn as an example of existential psychology because he was an

01:36:14.180 existential psychologist like victor frankl now one of the shocking things to me was that none of my

01:36:20.520 students had ever heard about what had happened in russia between 1920 and 1989 let's say

01:36:26.280 even though we fought we just about torched the planet and we fought a cold war over it they had

01:36:32.080 no idea what the stalinists had done and so that's a good example of something that where even neutrality

01:36:39.080 isn't sufficient it's like the communists were brutal genocidal murderers wherever they've set up

01:36:45.580 shop it's happening again in venezuela it's still happening in cuba it threatens all of south america

01:36:49.980 china is a complete bloody catastrophe on the on the ideological front and they're permeating the world

01:36:56.080 it's a catastrophe and our education system tells students nothing about that and you know

01:37:02.800 conservatives are this is particularly true in canada although it's starting to shift is that

01:37:08.400 they're so terrified of being demolished by the woke mob and also of being accused of something

01:37:13.840 approximating social conservatism is that they do take refuge in something like neutrality but

01:37:18.360 i'm not sure it's time for neutrality it depends what you mean by neutrality okay so in terms of it

01:37:23.880 and by the way regarding the cancel culture cancel culture only works if you allow them to cancel

01:37:27.660 you yes you just have to stand up and say you know take a hike and and it goes away right because

01:37:33.000 when if they can't cancel you then they have to find someone something else to do so but with garden

01:37:38.400 school what i mean by neutrality is not that we won't teach about communism that we won't teach

01:37:43.620 about the holocaust because we will we need to show that from a perspective this is the facts that

01:37:48.780 happened this is the evil that happened this is this is the damage that was done with it

01:37:52.840 not just from an ideological perspective but from a facts base and that's what i mean by neutral i

01:37:58.760 don't mean neutral as we won't talk about communism we won't talk about you know fascism we won't talk

01:38:03.620 about you know democracy or capitalism whatever case may be we will but in terms of providing facts

01:38:08.920 and information so that people the kids can look at this and come to their own conclusions and because

01:38:14.640 you're going to have people still on the left and the right and families are still going to have

01:38:17.140 lots of influence i think that's okay that's around in society i think it gets it where society

01:38:22.460 runs into trouble so it gets too far on any one particular side you know the pendulum swinging

01:38:26.240 back and forth and so you want to try to keep that as much as you can into a place where it creates

01:38:30.940 positive opportunities and people who are informed and critical thinkers and are able to look at

01:38:36.580 information that comes forward with a critical eye and ask the questions based on facts that they have

01:38:42.140 that you know particularly from our history and so that's what i'm hoping our education system will become

01:38:46.960 so i have mixed feelings about this because for a conservative to stand up and say all the

01:38:56.220 institutions that we relied on the west are corrupt in some ways plays directly into the hands of the

01:39:01.240 leftist radicals who say all the institutions in the west are irreparably corrupt right and and this is a

01:39:06.580 real problem it's a real problem and then i look at the k-12 education system and i think well we could

01:39:12.300 look at what happened at twitter when musk took it over he fired like 85 of the people no decrement in

01:39:18.160 twitter performance in fact quite the contrary but he had to do that in order to dispense with the

01:39:24.640 ideological corruption because it was that deep it's like it strikes me as highly probable that that's

01:39:30.620 the case with the education system and it because it's been four generations of this so you know in

01:39:35.160 in british companies i was a school trustee for three years yeah yeah and uh there was uh one of one of the

01:39:40.140 schools i looked after there was two grade four classes um you know all the kids going into one

01:39:44.880 class were at or about a grade three reading level and left at or about a grade four reading level

01:39:48.720 all the kids going into the other class were at or about a grade three reading level left at or about

01:39:53.160 a grade three right right right and so i looked at it and went wait a second this teacher is obviously

01:39:58.080 there's something going on here if this is happening year after year after year there's obviously

01:40:02.500 you know performance performance problem well in the education system british clumber you can't

01:40:07.480 remove somebody for pad performance it's not possible i think there's only one person since

01:40:11.900 1986 and in a system that's got 42 000 teachers i mean as you know there's going to be a certain

01:40:17.080 percentage just by statistics that are going to be problematic 65 percent of managers add negative

01:40:23.000 net value to their companies exactly right once i had the old rule 20 percent getting work done right

01:40:27.800 in terms of it so you look at this and you think okay um this is this is a real problem but

01:40:33.660 because the the union has such a lock on this it is extremely difficult to change that so there are

01:40:41.440 some shifts that i am looking at and considering uh in terms of the education system but i need to

01:40:46.220 start with the basics first and then see how that can improve and then look at what the next level needs

01:40:52.600 to be in terms of making those shifts and i and the reason why i'm saying that is um there's only so much

01:40:58.980 change people will accept absolutely as you know right most people won't accept any change except

01:41:05.680 when you get these these moments in time like i think we have in british columbia where people are

01:41:10.300 expecting and wanting change right so you have a window so you've got a window to be able to do a

01:41:14.800 number of things right and build and so there's a lot of change that's needed and so how far do you

01:41:20.040 push on some of those things before you prevent yourself from actually being able to get changes that you

01:41:25.460 need in other areas well you're you're going to be in the same position as polyev i think because

01:41:29.720 whatever you think the state of the british economy is it or the british columbian economy it's worse

01:41:35.400 yeah and so that's going to be dumped on you the moment you take office assuming that you win

01:41:40.320 and the same thing's going to happen to polyev so you're going to have the problem of having to

01:41:45.160 make radical changes well simultaneously having to bear the burden of every bad decision that's been

01:41:51.460 made in the last who knows how long at least seven years so yeah that's a very tough that's a very

01:41:57.260 tough road and so and the number one thing we need to do right i mean there's all these changes we need

01:42:01.860 on the social side and structure within government all that kind of stuff but the number one thing we

01:42:05.360 need to do is we actually need to get our economy going i mean they've driven the economy into the

01:42:09.060 ground and so we're going to basically have a bit of a slogan which is just to get stuff done i might

01:42:14.460 use a different word yes word yeah but we just have to do this right we have to get the permits out the

01:42:19.460 door we have to you know change that structure in place so that we can actually start driving the

01:42:24.080 economy and creating the environment where people want to stay in british columbia and to give them

01:42:29.060 hope for that they can build their future so that's going to be a big focus while we are doing the

01:42:33.380 structural changes on all the social side like in health and education the stuff we need to change

01:42:38.500 on the criminal codes and the stuff we need to change you know in the drugs and that whole side of

01:42:42.880 things so there's a there's a lot that's going to be going on all at the same time but as a priority

01:42:48.080 you've got to think okay we've got to be able to pay for this we're running an eight billion dollar

01:42:51.360 deficit the largest deficit in bc's history we're running a 10 deficit just about um and you want

01:42:56.620 to be able to get tax relief you got to get rid of things like the carbon tax it's another three and

01:42:59.800 a half billion dollars that you're that are taken out of people's pockets so you've got to do that

01:43:03.800 structural change but at the same time you need the money to do it so you have to be able to get the

01:43:08.700 environment where people will want to invest in british columbia again and create those jobs

01:43:11.820 and drive you know quite frankly wage growth which is another big factor that needs to be done to deal

01:43:16.760 with affordability okay so well so i wanted to close with a discussion of priorities because i

01:43:20.940 thought it would be useful for you to tell your voters you know what your priorities are in the

01:43:27.000 near future if you become premier and you just alluded to that so let's let's close by delving into

01:43:33.580 priorities so you said that your first priority is going to be to get the economy moving and so

01:43:39.640 what relatively short-term measures do you think that you could take that would give you that 80

01:43:46.540 percent return for 20 investment like what are the egregious errors that are being committed right

01:43:52.120 now that you could in principle reverse rapidly that would signal to people that if those who can

01:43:58.460 will now be allowed and encouraged to do what what could they look forward to in the first three or

01:44:04.200 four months so we have 17 mines that are either permitted or about to be permitted in british

01:44:08.820 columbia that represents a 38 billion dollar investment that will generate between 20 and

01:44:13.400 30 000 jobs with an average wage benefit of 138 000 a year and we'll add 500 to 800 billion to british

01:44:20.280 columbia's gdp over the life of those mines so we're just going to get those things out the door and get

01:44:25.480 started obviously there's going to be work with first nations and things that need done that's going

01:44:28.720 to be a priority to get done there are three more natural gas pipelines permitted to the coast

01:44:33.880 those permits will start expiring in november of this year they've already had five-year extensions

01:44:39.500 they can't apply for another extension so on day one we are going to do a pass and order in council

01:44:45.040 to give a 10-year extension to those permits because there's a linear project they don't need to go

01:44:49.840 through nothing has changed we're going to be then changing the need for using electricity for

01:44:54.720 compression of lng of natural gas to using natural gas for compression so these are the basic things that

01:45:02.000 we'll do right at the beginning to start getting the investment back into british columbia then

01:45:06.680 there's some structural changes on forestry we need to do and then of course there's there's some

01:45:10.860 structural change we need to do just from the economic side period for example in british columbia

01:45:15.500 it takes two years or longer to get something as simple as a warehouse built south of the border it's

01:45:20.560 three months yeah and so we need to so everybody just moves south so we're just we got to strip away

01:45:25.800 all that all that permitting process and go to a place that's one project one permit right and clean

01:45:32.740 up a bunch of these things so there's all of that stuff is designed to set the stage but then the key

01:45:38.100 is you still have to get people to invest you still get people that want to do work in british columbia

01:45:42.540 and so you set the stage and then you have to build the confidence that they can come in and actually make

01:45:47.580 for the long run for the long run and know that when they're putting 38 billion dollars into the

01:45:52.260 ground for various projects uh that they have a reasonable expectation for return within a reasonable

01:45:58.340 time frame and so and and the certainty when they go in that you know the the land's not going to

01:46:04.420 shift from underneath them okay so if i was an environmentalist radical listening to what you just

01:46:09.780 said i'd be rubbing my hands in anticipation of all the protests that i could mount so if you go ahead

01:46:15.200 with rapid uh um what would you say restructuring so that these projects could take place you'll be

01:46:21.580 facing a substantial amount of pretty radical opposition and so that's a very difficult thing

01:46:27.700 to deal with right because people have a right except for one thing yeah this is a democratic

01:46:32.220 society at least it should be and if we're given the mandate to do this then that's what we will do

01:46:38.220 it's not like we're not putting being up front and talking to people and saying this is what we're

01:46:42.600 going to do this is what we're going to do and we will have the people's mandate should we be

01:46:47.080 elected to actually be able to implement these things now we're not throwing environmental standards

01:46:51.020 out the window of course we're going to meet the environmental standards we want to make sure that

01:46:54.000 we are we are good citizens of our environment and of the land that we have but we're not going

01:47:00.040 to be jumping through these enormous hoops and the barriers that are put in place that have been

01:47:04.480 intentionally put in to stymie the opportunity to actually do anything and so if there's going to

01:47:09.400 be people that are protesting i get it there's going to be but they're not people have the right

01:47:13.460 to protest if they want to fill the lawn of the legislature that's fine you know what and i list

01:47:18.800 them if there's reasonable arguments to be made but if they're just going to be you know just

01:47:22.300 protesting because they want everybody to be naked running under the trees you know fill your boots

01:47:27.060 i'm not interested in going down that path but if they want to come forward with reasonable things

01:47:31.240 that we need to address okay we'll look at that but the one thing i will not allow is i'm not going

01:47:35.740 to allow hate and i'm not going to allow um you know violence in in terms of our society like what

01:47:42.180 we're seeing right now for example the uh the anti-semitism that is going on in british columbia

01:47:47.220 in the protests where people are calling for the destruction of the jewish people and the genocide

01:47:51.540 of jewish people wait a second that is hate by its very definition that should not be allowed in our

01:47:58.020 society it should not be it should it needs to be stopped government needs to step up and say no that

01:48:02.880 is not acceptable because if that's allowed where does that carry on where does that go i was talking

01:48:08.220 with one family one jewish family she's 67 her her mom uh you know grew up through uh through the

01:48:14.660 holocaust and she is making plans to leave british columbia and i asked her why and she said because

01:48:19.400 yeah what's happening today reminds her very much of the stories her mother told about 1932 in

01:48:26.780 germany it's unbelievable i never thought i'd see this encounter that scares me and so that's a

01:48:31.500 fundamental shift that we need to do to get back to a society that is open that is fair that is treating

01:48:37.180 people uh you know fairly and safely and that's it's a it's a shift you know on that side that is

01:48:43.080 desperately needed okay so i'm going to summarize our conversation and for everybody watching and

01:48:47.780 listening i think i'll continue to talk to john rustad about um the philosophy of conservatism and

01:48:53.500 small l liberalism in some detail on the daily wire side so that's and to contrast that with the

01:48:59.380 radical utopianism of let's say the progressive neo-marxist left i'd like to go more into the

01:49:05.620 philosophy of of government and governance so we'll do that on the daily wire side

01:49:09.560 to summarize essentially well british columbia is a province where the war between the utopian

01:49:17.580 socialists and the free market um classic english liberals really is particularly market intense and

01:49:27.760 the utopian socialist green types anti-human green types i think have had the upper hand for a good

01:49:34.820 long time in british columbia and there's been a fair amount of very little environmental progress

01:49:39.460 and a fair amount of economic havoc wreaked as a consequence and so you want to take um the reins

01:49:47.960 let's say and return the province to something approximating a free market orientation your primary

01:49:54.980 considerations upon taking govern taking the reins of the government will be economic you want to get

01:50:01.300 rid of the obstacles in the way of allowing the people of british columbia to have a high quality

01:50:07.660 economic future so you talked about mines you talked about forestry you talked about fossil fuels it's

01:50:12.840 low-hanging fruit in a sense if you can clear away the red tape and keep the protesters at bay at least

01:50:18.020 stop them from stopping everything and so that's your short-term plan on the longer term you're looking at

01:50:24.620 education reform health care reform um maybe some additional fortification of property rights um

01:50:33.140 and you think that you can get the economic ball rolling in relatively short order you think that

01:50:39.920 you're the man for the job at least in part because you made a decision to run on principle even though

01:50:46.500 you don't exactly need the job you have private enterprise experience as an entrepreneur and as a

01:50:52.800 manager you're an mla for a good period of time and you're in the cabinet and you think that you

01:50:57.960 have enough people around you so that you could do a a competent job is there anything that i missed as

01:51:03.100 a summary that's a that's a pretty good summary uh from my perspective and uh i always like to say

01:51:09.000 you know what i what we stand for is just to stand for what's right and fight for the average everyday

01:51:13.060 person you know when you look at the at the class differences you know the left has really become

01:51:17.540 a party of elites and environmentalists and the average person is being left out of that equation

01:51:23.420 entirely and so that's got to be a focus of us as a government it's so funny sure you and i you know

01:51:28.720 we're about the same age and when when we were younger it was pretty obvious that the ndp was a

01:51:34.200 working class party run in large by labor union leaders the conservatives were the party of big

01:51:39.900 business and the liberals were sort of in the middle and everyone knew that and everybody played

01:51:43.820 that game in a pretty straight way i would say it's pretty damn weird that pierre balieff is

01:51:50.440 attracting all the people in work boots now and that the conservatives have become the party of the

01:51:54.020 working class you know and in british columbia we are getting large number of people from the ndp

01:51:59.060 actually coming over and joining us and being part of our party i've got a former ndp mla running for us

01:52:03.660 the former leader of the green party has come out and endorsed policies and approaches that we're doing

01:52:08.480 because they just make sense as opposed to much of this ideology that quite frankly is going too far so

01:52:13.580 um we put together a very interesting coalition in british columbia and we call it conservatism yeah

01:52:19.160 and we call it the conservative party yeah really like i say it's it's more of that just standing for

01:52:23.380 what's right instead of you know on ideologies right right all right sir well good luck on the

01:52:29.440 october 19th election i'll be watching that with great interest and and uh not a little trepidation

01:52:35.500 because it would really be an awful thing to have the ports of british columbia closed

01:52:40.080 for canada to aid the world with let's say energy provision that would really be quite the

01:52:45.540 catastrophe for many people not just the people in british columbia for the japanese arguably for

01:52:51.100 the europeans yeah so i really hope that right across the world you bet right across the world it

01:52:56.660 is our hope that we can bring back just a little common sense even though common sense isn't very

01:53:01.020 common but just get back to the basics yeah um and uh you know open up our province and quite

01:53:06.500 frankly help that to open up the country as well yeah in terms of what can happen and what should

01:53:10.960 happen for what i truly believe is the best country in the world yeah yeah all right thanks sir very

01:53:16.420 much very good talking to you thank you yeah and thank you to everybody watching and listening uh

01:53:20.620 another what would you say slice of the ongoing culture war making itself manifest in what should be

01:53:28.060 and easily could be canada's richest province british columbia is a remarkably beautiful place

01:53:33.040 with an immense amount of opportunity and possibility and it's a real catastrophe to watch it degenerate

01:53:39.920 into this idiot counterproductive socialist utopia so to speak um and put the entire economy of the

01:53:46.700 country at risk so i'm hoping that there'll be some change on october 19th thank you to everybody who's

01:53:51.880 watching and listening thank you to the film crew here in fairview alberta where we managed to do this

01:53:56.680 live so that was quite an unexpected bonus and uh um a welcome opportunity and thanks again sir for

01:54:03.260 taking the time to talk with me thank you very much i've enjoyed our chat

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 02, 2024

477. Stopping the Socialist Trainwreck in British Columbia ｜ John Rustad

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