The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - December 05, 2024


504. Fired for Honesty and Competence: One Genuine Teacher's Story | Warren Smith


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 29 minutes

Words per minute

169.4134

Word count

15,094

Sentence count

1,102

Harmful content

Misogyny

12

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

J.K. Rowling has a history of bigoted opinions. Warren Smith, a teacher, recorded himself having a discussion with a student about a rather contentious topic. That topic turned out to be J. K. Rowling's reactions to the trans propaganda insanity that plagues our culture in 15 different ways.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:30.980 Hello, everybody.
00:00:31.960 I had the opportunity to sit down in person today with Warren Smith.
00:00:36.900 Warren was a teacher and he recorded himself having a discussion with a student
00:00:42.800 about a rather contentious topic.
00:00:44.840 Turned out to be J.K. Rowling's reactions to the trans propaganda insanity 0.95
00:00:50.540 that plagues our culture in 15 different ways.
00:00:54.160 Do you still like her work?
00:00:56.060 Despite her bigoted opinions.
00:00:59.300 So let's get specific, though.
00:01:01.540 Let's define bigoted opinions.
00:01:03.320 What opinions are bigoted?
00:01:04.500 She has had a history of being extremely transphobic, I've heard.
00:01:08.820 And you've heard.
00:01:09.740 So can you give me an example?
00:01:11.360 In 2019, she said,
00:01:13.900 Live your best life in peace and security,
00:01:17.040 but force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real.
00:01:21.620 So you find that bigoted?
00:01:23.240 What do you find about...
00:01:24.680 It was...
00:01:25.320 The video, which was remarkable, I would say,
00:01:29.300 for the good sense that Warren brought to it,
00:01:33.620 the calm demeanor, the intelligent questioning of the student,
00:01:37.820 really the professional way that he handled the discussion,
00:01:40.240 which is now so rare among those who purport to be teachers,
00:01:44.820 that the mere fact of its professionalism was remarkable in and of itself,
00:01:49.900 enough so that it went viral.
00:01:51.520 Do you find that transphobic yourself?
00:01:53.640 Uh, I don't really have an opinion on it,
00:01:56.420 but I'm just going with what a lot of other people have said.
00:02:00.000 So let's pause it.
00:02:01.060 Let's not go with what other people are saying.
00:02:03.000 Let's try and learn how to critically think.
00:02:05.060 So let's analyze the tweet ourselves.
00:02:07.260 So that statement,
00:02:08.860 do you see anything problematic?
00:02:10.720 It was shared by Elon Musk among many other people.
00:02:13.640 And as you might imagine,
00:02:16.260 that produced an explosive effect on Warren's life.
00:02:20.480 So it happened yesterday.
00:02:21.820 I was fired from my full-time teaching position.
00:02:26.780 That was followed up by a Pierce Morgan interview,
00:02:30.580 which I guess was the secondary explosion
00:02:33.160 in the two explosions that rocked his life.
00:02:35.780 I am absolutely surprised by this completely.
00:02:38.780 I never expected this at all.
00:02:40.040 This came out accidentally.
00:02:42.700 Just, we have interactions like this on a daily basis.
00:02:45.820 This one just happened to be captured on camera.
00:02:47.880 Which was also quite distressing, as you might expect,
00:02:51.880 given his level of commitment to his teaching profession.
00:02:55.720 I have devoted four years of my life
00:02:58.160 to this school.
00:03:02.660 And yesterday, it was like being a character in a video game
00:03:06.700 and just being deleted.
00:03:08.080 I wanted to talk to Warren
00:03:09.420 because I really liked the video that he made.
00:03:11.240 I thought it was remarkable for its sanity,
00:03:14.660 especially given the time.
00:03:15.840 And I was very curious about everything that had happened to him
00:03:19.360 in consequence of the viral explosion
00:03:22.140 of what he had done as a teacher.
00:03:23.760 And so, we sat down for an hour and a half
00:03:26.860 to talk all that through.
00:03:28.980 The consequences of saying what you think
00:03:32.260 when the situation is set up to reward you
00:03:35.780 for maintaining your silence.
00:03:37.920 Join us for that discussion.
00:03:40.600 Hello, Mr. Smith.
00:03:41.740 Thank you for coming in today.
00:03:43.460 It's an honor.
00:03:44.280 Thank you.
00:03:44.900 Yeah, no problem.
00:03:45.840 Yeah, I probably came across you
00:03:48.540 the way most people did.
00:03:49.940 And I guess that was with the video that went viral
00:03:52.740 that Musk shared, eh?
00:03:56.260 Lots of people who are watching and listening
00:03:58.160 won't know anything about you.
00:03:59.640 So, why don't we start from the beginning?
00:04:04.440 What was it that brought you to public attention?
00:04:07.300 And tell us the story about your teaching career.
00:04:10.500 Well, public attention,
00:04:11.460 it was that video that you're talking about.
00:04:14.820 But the beginning,
00:04:16.180 I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot
00:04:17.680 because I've had time to reflect on it more.
00:04:20.700 After that video,
00:04:21.860 it was a strange experience
00:04:23.760 because suddenly you have one five-minute video
00:04:26.980 and suddenly you have this perceived value.
00:04:31.820 But, I mean,
00:04:32.940 I was the exact same person as before that video.
00:04:35.580 Now, I mean, it was not,
00:04:37.200 for me, it was life-changing though.
00:04:39.460 So, I have people,
00:04:41.060 some people wanting to talk to me,
00:04:42.680 which was people that I have genuinely admired.
00:04:45.320 Like, I mean, this is a bit
00:04:48.060 kind of the Dave Rubin,
00:04:52.820 just opportunities that I never just,
00:04:55.580 never expected.
00:04:57.000 And so, I've been reflecting on those conversations
00:05:00.060 because I often,
00:05:01.660 I found myself kind of feeling like
00:05:03.620 I was trying to live up to something
00:05:06.780 from that video.
00:05:08.260 So, this idea of what,
00:05:09.400 suddenly I was labeled this,
00:05:11.140 kind of like this critical thinking,
00:05:12.300 Socratic Method guy.
00:05:14.080 And I wasn't intentionally doing that at all.
00:05:16.080 I have no background in Socratic Method
00:05:18.300 or critical thinking.
00:05:19.220 I was just doing what I thought
00:05:21.560 was sensible in the moment.
00:05:23.400 You don't necessarily know who you are,
00:05:25.480 you know, that's the thing.
00:05:27.140 And it wasn't exactly chance
00:05:30.840 that made the video go viral, right?
00:05:33.420 You obviously touched on a nerve
00:05:35.180 and in a manner that people admired.
00:05:39.240 Tell the story of the video
00:05:40.820 and talk about your work too.
00:05:42.760 You were working as a high school teacher
00:05:45.060 when you released that video.
00:05:46.740 Tell people the story of the video
00:05:48.680 and how it came to be
00:05:49.660 and why it was recorded to begin with.
00:05:52.160 Sure, sure.
00:05:53.700 So, I, after graduate school,
00:05:55.720 I found myself as a public school teacher
00:05:57.820 right up before COVID,
00:06:00.600 the year leading into COVID,
00:06:02.040 just teaching what I majored in.
00:06:05.180 And my plans were always to be a college professor.
00:06:07.760 And I teach some courses,
00:06:10.040 but I'm not tenure track or anything.
00:06:11.800 And perhaps one day,
00:06:13.300 but I found myself in this unlikely position
00:06:17.820 and I enjoyed it,
00:06:19.180 teaching the same subject matter,
00:06:20.460 video technology,
00:06:21.440 what we're doing right here.
00:06:23.020 Two high school kids.
00:06:24.480 Two high school kids.
00:06:25.440 Now you had a MFA?
00:06:26.940 Yes.
00:06:27.620 And what was the specialty?
00:06:29.460 Video production.
00:06:30.500 In video production.
00:06:31.560 And when did you graduate
00:06:33.040 with a master's degree?
00:06:34.500 19, 2019.
00:06:35.500 2019.
00:06:36.520 And then you were looking,
00:06:37.820 what kind of jobs were you looking for?
00:06:39.620 In education.
00:06:40.560 In education.
00:06:41.520 And you landed a job as a high school teacher.
00:06:43.460 High school teacher,
00:06:44.740 just by pure kind of just chance.
00:06:47.780 And I really enjoyed it.
00:06:49.960 COVID hits.
00:06:51.520 Everything goes.
00:06:53.320 Ape.
00:06:54.000 Crazy.
00:06:55.840 The school shuts down.
00:06:57.600 They make cuts
00:06:58.820 because of the teacher's union.
00:07:00.600 All first year hires
00:07:01.740 are gone.
00:07:04.620 So that kind of left
00:07:05.540 a taste in my mouth about unions.
00:07:08.980 One of my first experiences with unions.
00:07:11.760 And so I started looking for another job
00:07:13.440 and I found a school
00:07:15.840 that specialized in
00:07:18.040 kids with behavioral challenges.
00:07:20.080 And this is kind of
00:07:23.040 what I was alluding to
00:07:23.780 at the beginning.
00:07:24.360 There are things that I've not,
00:07:26.200 I've wanted to talk about
00:07:28.360 in these kind of interviews
00:07:29.660 that happen
00:07:30.280 or when someone wants to discuss this,
00:07:32.060 they want to discuss the video.
00:07:33.380 And I find myself,
00:07:34.840 because you've spoken about
00:07:35.660 when you feel your words
00:07:37.080 making you
00:07:39.520 not what you could be
00:07:40.980 or weaker.
00:07:41.980 You can feel it.
00:07:43.740 I decided that I would start
00:07:45.340 practicing
00:07:46.900 not saying things
00:07:48.480 that would make me weak.
00:07:49.780 And what happened was
00:07:50.940 that I had to stop saying
00:07:52.340 almost everything
00:07:53.500 that I was saying.
00:07:54.980 And that's how it feels.
00:07:55.540 You practiced with that, have you?
00:07:57.060 To say that you had an impact
00:07:58.320 on my life,
00:07:58.820 which is why this is surreal,
00:08:00.480 to say you had an impact
00:08:01.420 on my life
00:08:01.860 would be an understatement.
00:08:03.120 And we can get into that.
00:08:04.500 Okay.
00:08:04.920 That was in graduate school.
00:08:06.100 Okay.
00:08:07.460 But I was feeling that
00:08:09.080 in those conversations,
00:08:11.180 trying to live up
00:08:11.940 to something in a way.
00:08:13.520 I mean,
00:08:13.840 it was,
00:08:16.100 you're kind of saying
00:08:16.880 what people want to hear,
00:08:20.160 not trying to sound intelligent,
00:08:22.820 but something like that.
00:08:26.540 And I never expected
00:08:28.580 anything like this to happen,
00:08:30.580 but I did tell myself,
00:08:31.820 if I ever by some miracle
00:08:33.640 had the chance to speak to you,
00:08:35.000 I would allow myself permission
00:08:37.360 to allow my words
00:08:39.460 to have that vulnerability
00:08:40.300 and to go to that place
00:08:41.360 that I have not allowed myself
00:08:42.920 to go to
00:08:43.420 because I think
00:08:43.860 there is value there.
00:08:45.180 But the reason I bring that,
00:08:46.400 because that is kind of,
00:08:47.940 I've never spoken about
00:08:49.040 the reality of the school
00:08:50.100 where I was teaching.
00:08:50.760 Yeah, okay.
00:08:51.480 Okay.
00:08:51.820 Well, let's go down that path.
00:08:53.700 So these are kids
00:08:54.440 with behavioral challenges
00:08:56.220 that could not,
00:08:58.180 other schools
00:08:58.680 could not handle them.
00:08:59.860 So they put them all together.
00:09:01.580 It's a last line
00:09:02.760 of defense, sort of.
00:09:03.740 So they're specialized.
00:09:04.680 It's funded through
00:09:05.620 public school system.
00:09:07.860 So a student
00:09:08.980 is so challenging.
00:09:10.300 It could be for any reason.
00:09:11.580 Some are involved
00:09:12.600 with gangs,
00:09:14.220 substance abuse challenges.
00:09:15.760 Some are bullies.
00:09:17.000 Some are the bullied.
00:09:18.620 For whatever reason,
00:09:19.320 that school can't,
00:09:21.720 they're just not equipped.
00:09:23.100 They pay,
00:09:24.260 I think it's $50,000 a head,
00:09:25.940 something along those lines,
00:09:27.380 to send them
00:09:28.660 to the school,
00:09:30.220 which is governed by a board
00:09:31.580 and an executive director.
00:09:33.060 And here I am.
00:09:36.380 And you were hired
00:09:37.240 at that school?
00:09:37.860 With COVID going on.
00:09:40.580 Did you have any experience
00:09:42.140 at all dealing
00:09:42.760 with behaviorally challenged kids?
00:09:44.720 No.
00:09:45.260 So why'd they hire you?
00:09:48.120 I interviewed well.
00:09:49.540 I'm going to be,
00:09:51.080 I'm going to strive
00:09:51.620 to be as honest as I can
00:09:52.620 throughout this.
00:09:53.260 So I interviewed well.
00:09:54.620 Yeah.
00:09:54.940 I think they saw potential.
00:09:57.420 They were,
00:09:57.940 I think they were looking
00:10:00.580 for young teachers
00:10:02.540 that could weather
00:10:04.300 that kind of storm.
00:10:05.940 Were they mostly boys
00:10:07.240 in the school?
00:10:08.460 Yes.
00:10:09.260 What proportion?
00:10:10.940 I would say 80%.
00:10:12.580 Yeah, yeah.
00:10:12.880 Well, that's what you'd expect
00:10:14.040 if you brought
00:10:14.660 behaviorally challenged kids together
00:10:16.360 because they're much more,
00:10:17.180 they'd be much more likely
00:10:18.080 to be boys.
00:10:18.860 How old?
00:10:19.840 High school age,
00:10:20.820 whether there are
00:10:21.580 some middle school.
00:10:22.700 It was interesting
00:10:23.300 the way the building
00:10:24.200 is divided
00:10:25.120 to where a subset
00:10:26.060 of middle school
00:10:26.920 specialized with one group.
00:10:29.220 But because of COVID,
00:10:30.460 it was divided up
00:10:31.200 into pods
00:10:31.720 because they were worried
00:10:32.360 about cross-contamination
00:10:33.580 of COVID.
00:10:34.100 So there was 10 students
00:10:35.760 approximately to one site
00:10:37.040 and I was assigned
00:10:37.760 to one site
00:10:38.580 as the multimedia teacher
00:10:40.780 teaching the same thing
00:10:41.700 I've always taught
00:10:43.280 and there was no crossover
00:10:44.400 and then there was
00:10:45.120 three teachers assigned
00:10:46.420 to one site
00:10:47.100 to manage those 10 students
00:10:48.780 which ratio
00:10:50.020 of teacher to student
00:10:50.980 is quite high.
00:10:52.800 That's what their needs
00:10:54.260 necessitate.
00:10:56.200 How long did you teach
00:10:57.520 at that school?
00:10:58.520 up until losing my job
00:11:00.580 so four years?
00:11:02.160 Four years.
00:11:03.300 Okay, so you stuck it out too.
00:11:05.080 Well, I remember
00:11:05.940 when the first speech
00:11:08.560 they gave,
00:11:09.400 the principal that hired me
00:11:10.780 I really was,
00:11:11.380 I'm very fond of
00:11:12.480 and the assistant principal.
00:11:14.600 They are no longer there.
00:11:17.060 They were dismissed
00:11:17.580 a year prior to me
00:11:18.500 but they are the ones
00:11:19.440 that hired me
00:11:19.940 so when you ask
00:11:20.500 why they hire you,
00:11:21.400 he's the only person
00:11:22.060 that could answer that.
00:11:22.680 I remember he,
00:11:23.520 I was in the interview
00:11:24.520 and this assistant principal
00:11:28.280 walks in
00:11:29.020 and he's like dressed,
00:11:30.500 there was really no dress code
00:11:31.680 because he,
00:11:33.060 and he walks in
00:11:33.820 and he's like
00:11:35.240 blow my mind
00:11:35.880 in eight seconds
00:11:36.560 and then I forget
00:11:38.740 what I said
00:11:39.180 and then he just walked out
00:11:40.140 and didn't say
00:11:40.500 a single word
00:11:41.160 and I left thinking
00:11:41.800 I just blew that interview
00:11:43.000 but I got the job.
00:11:44.460 So anyways,
00:11:45.060 we're there on the first day
00:11:46.360 and he's like,
00:11:46.760 look guys,
00:11:48.120 if you're still teaching
00:11:49.260 at this school
00:11:49.960 in four years,
00:11:52.220 something's probably
00:11:53.020 wrong with you
00:11:54.420 or you have
00:11:55.400 some sadomasochistic
00:11:57.460 or you just have some,
00:11:59.540 I think he was alluding to
00:12:00.460 that there's some reason
00:12:01.380 you have that,
00:12:02.420 like this is not
00:12:03.580 your typical pathway
00:12:06.860 for educators.
00:12:08.260 He's trying to
00:12:08.900 illustrate the reality
00:12:10.440 that most times
00:12:11.600 they get traditional educators
00:12:13.080 that realize
00:12:13.940 where they are
00:12:14.700 and it's too late
00:12:16.020 at that point
00:12:16.440 and then they just vanish
00:12:17.340 and they're like,
00:12:18.020 I mean,
00:12:18.220 they last a week
00:12:19.280 if that.
00:12:19.720 We've had teachers
00:12:20.260 come in and last
00:12:21.060 a day,
00:12:22.420 one day
00:12:23.140 and just get in their car
00:12:24.040 and leave.
00:12:24.940 What happens to them?
00:12:26.960 They just,
00:12:27.600 they're like,
00:12:28.060 this is chaos.
00:12:29.180 This is,
00:12:31.080 I can't,
00:12:31.520 I can't survive this
00:12:32.640 for a year.
00:12:33.520 We were walking around
00:12:34.540 with walkie-talkies
00:12:35.800 so that you can respond quickly.
00:12:37.560 We're trained in safety care
00:12:39.580 so that you can go
00:12:40.680 hands-on if needed.
00:12:42.780 I mean,
00:12:43.100 fights breaking out.
00:12:44.620 It's not juvie
00:12:45.640 but it's one step
00:12:46.660 away from juvie.
00:12:48.360 Though,
00:12:49.160 you also have students
00:12:50.660 that are not headed
00:12:51.880 to juvie
00:12:52.480 but they're the ones
00:12:53.620 that get bullied
00:12:54.580 or for whatever
00:12:56.380 reason,
00:12:58.140 they have an IEP plan
00:12:59.560 that,
00:13:00.360 And what's that?
00:13:01.380 An individualized
00:13:02.760 education plan.
00:13:03.880 Yeah.
00:13:05.820 I have dyslexia
00:13:07.100 though,
00:13:09.120 some students
00:13:11.000 would have dyslexia
00:13:12.180 to a degree
00:13:12.800 where they need,
00:13:13.520 it was a special
00:13:14.360 education school
00:13:15.260 and it's designed
00:13:17.140 so that we can
00:13:18.220 accommodate
00:13:18.720 everything.
00:13:21.280 And so,
00:13:21.840 the students
00:13:22.260 that are hyper-aggressive
00:13:23.500 are put in one,
00:13:25.220 there's going to be
00:13:25.980 flaws to this logically,
00:13:27.580 are put in one
00:13:28.600 quadrant,
00:13:30.960 one site.
00:13:31.800 They were divided
00:13:32.220 into sites,
00:13:32.820 one, two, three,
00:13:33.400 four, whatnot.
00:13:34.360 So that there's no,
00:13:35.380 you can't put the bullies
00:13:36.300 with the bullied.
00:13:37.760 Right.
00:13:38.780 But then you have
00:13:39.500 hyper-aggressive
00:13:40.400 people together.
00:13:41.340 A bunch of males.
00:13:41.900 Yeah.
00:13:42.300 A lot of fights.
00:13:43.160 Right, of course.
00:13:43.640 That's the site I was on.
00:13:45.780 So let's just get
00:13:46.820 this timeline
00:13:47.400 exactly right.
00:13:48.220 So you got your
00:13:48.740 master's degree
00:13:49.400 in 2000,
00:13:50.260 at the end of 2019?
00:13:52.000 1977,
00:13:52.320 1978,
00:13:52.660 19.
00:13:53.300 And then you had
00:13:54.200 a teaching job
00:13:55.240 in a relatively
00:13:55.900 run-of-the-mill high school.
00:13:58.040 Right.
00:13:58.580 And COVID put an end
00:13:59.700 to that
00:14:00.140 and then
00:14:01.280 as COVID lifted,
00:14:02.860 you found a job
00:14:03.840 in this school
00:14:05.040 that was for
00:14:06.140 behaviorally challenged kids
00:14:07.640 and it was a very
00:14:08.820 mixed bag
00:14:09.920 of behaviorally challenged kids,
00:14:11.240 which is also
00:14:11.720 a very interesting
00:14:12.600 administrative decision.
00:14:14.020 I mean,
00:14:14.360 the idea that you would put
00:14:16.040 all the kids
00:14:17.060 with all the problems
00:14:18.260 in the same school
00:14:19.320 is a strange idea.
00:14:20.880 It's not like
00:14:21.480 problems
00:14:22.820 constitutes a category.
00:14:25.560 Yeah.
00:14:25.780 It's not a category at all.
00:14:27.220 And then,
00:14:28.160 while you alluded
00:14:28.800 to this as well,
00:14:29.780 it isn't the least bit
00:14:31.380 evident from the evidence
00:14:32.980 that putting
00:14:33.620 aggressive kids together
00:14:35.320 is anything
00:14:36.180 but a really bad idea.
00:14:38.380 Right?
00:14:38.600 There's immense
00:14:39.640 clinical literature
00:14:40.520 demonstrating exactly that.
00:14:42.200 And you said
00:14:42.980 you ended up
00:14:44.620 with the aggressive kids.
00:14:46.280 Okay.
00:14:46.900 But you also pointed out
00:14:48.420 that you taught there
00:14:49.260 for four years.
00:14:50.760 So it changed.
00:14:51.740 The landscape transformed.
00:14:53.680 Okay.
00:14:54.240 Those first two years
00:14:55.260 were the most chaotic.
00:14:56.260 Perhaps that had something
00:14:57.020 to do with COVID.
00:14:58.580 So,
00:14:59.160 because I arrived
00:15:00.660 during COVID,
00:15:02.220 suddenly there's
00:15:02.800 kind of an outbreak
00:15:03.840 at the school.
00:15:05.060 I remember driving
00:15:05.980 into the parking lot
00:15:06.700 one morning.
00:15:07.540 Half the staff
00:15:08.460 are coming out
00:15:09.440 of the parking lot,
00:15:10.220 getting into their cars
00:15:11.080 and they're like,
00:15:11.680 they're telling us to leave.
00:15:13.680 So I'm on site one.
00:15:15.200 For whatever reason,
00:15:16.880 all the teachers
00:15:18.940 were sent home
00:15:19.600 on site one
00:15:20.160 except me.
00:15:21.460 Now,
00:15:21.960 there was no students
00:15:22.920 in the building though
00:15:23.660 for three or four weeks
00:15:25.080 this went on.
00:15:25.920 And so I was teaching
00:15:26.620 remotely
00:15:27.020 in my classroom
00:15:28.320 on my computer.
00:15:29.220 And I kind of expanded
00:15:31.700 the curriculum
00:15:32.280 to like help.
00:15:33.200 They needed me
00:15:33.560 to fill in
00:15:34.000 with other things.
00:15:34.940 I remember that distinctly.
00:15:37.220 And so then we get
00:15:38.840 through that.
00:15:39.380 That might have happened.
00:15:40.240 It was like every few months
00:15:41.600 there was an outbreak
00:15:42.240 on this site
00:15:42.960 and they're gone.
00:15:43.780 And so,
00:15:44.060 you know,
00:15:44.220 and you can't walk
00:15:44.960 through these doors
00:15:45.780 for contamination
00:15:47.160 and COVID ends.
00:15:50.340 And over the course
00:15:51.500 of the next two years
00:15:52.480 it changed
00:15:53.720 because originally
00:15:54.640 multimedia,
00:15:55.280 I was able to
00:15:56.560 I was able to
00:15:58.140 grow the program
00:15:59.300 to where I was able
00:16:00.100 to work with
00:16:00.500 the entire building.
00:16:01.640 It was no longer
00:16:02.640 just limited
00:16:03.840 to one site.
00:16:05.960 Which was remarkable
00:16:07.420 because in upstairs
00:16:08.560 they have students
00:16:10.280 with severe
00:16:11.420 physical challenges,
00:16:14.100 Down syndrome,
00:16:15.480 challenges such as that.
00:16:16.760 And that requires
00:16:17.640 a completely different
00:16:18.860 specialty.
00:16:20.520 No doubt.
00:16:21.120 And a different type
00:16:21.940 of staff
00:16:22.580 and professionalism even
00:16:24.100 because you can't
00:16:25.540 afford a mistake.
00:16:26.780 It's life or death.
00:16:29.420 What if the key
00:16:30.260 to humanity's future
00:16:31.140 has been hidden
00:16:31.800 in playing sight
00:16:32.560 for thousands of years?
00:16:34.040 In his new series,
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00:16:48.700 conversation about
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00:17:16.800 And I began to work
00:17:23.160 with those students
00:17:23.800 as well.
00:17:24.260 And you're always
00:17:26.340 going to have
00:17:26.620 inner politics,
00:17:28.380 office place politics
00:17:29.360 and whatnot,
00:17:30.040 and certain cliques form.
00:17:31.880 And I mentioned
00:17:32.720 the principal
00:17:34.140 and assistant principal
00:17:35.020 both just got fired
00:17:36.580 in the middle of the day,
00:17:37.640 same day.
00:17:39.700 And they put out a reason,
00:17:42.200 you know,
00:17:42.600 and they're like,
00:17:43.480 oh, they just,
00:17:44.240 they keep it vague.
00:17:45.100 And it was clearly,
00:17:47.440 it was kind of a,
00:17:48.600 in the first year
00:17:49.220 the school tried
00:17:49.720 to unionize,
00:17:50.360 there was a movement
00:17:50.820 to unionize.
00:17:51.660 And that principal
00:17:52.460 that hired me
00:17:53.080 was very against it.
00:17:54.360 And I voted against it
00:17:55.640 because my previous
00:17:56.700 experience with unions
00:17:57.560 was starting to wake up
00:17:58.420 to the reality
00:17:59.020 of the drawbacks.
00:17:59.940 I understand the motivation
00:18:01.040 behind unions,
00:18:01.880 but,
00:18:03.660 so there was,
00:18:04.700 my point is
00:18:05.260 that interplace politics
00:18:06.560 and it took them out.
00:18:09.800 But I was able to,
00:18:12.460 this new principal
00:18:13.220 arose who was
00:18:14.080 a very nice guy.
00:18:16.200 There was originally
00:18:16.860 two assistant principals
00:18:17.900 and one was the kind
00:18:18.960 of the guy who,
00:18:20.980 in my mind,
00:18:21.620 I'm almost positive,
00:18:22.340 kind of led
00:18:23.320 that formation
00:18:25.020 of what caused them
00:18:26.140 to leave
00:18:26.560 and he ascended in power,
00:18:28.140 became the only
00:18:30.060 assistant principal
00:18:31.160 and his good buddy
00:18:32.520 who was 30 years old
00:18:34.460 at the time
00:18:34.860 became the principal,
00:18:36.780 which is pretty young
00:18:37.560 to be a principal.
00:18:38.480 And he was a very nice guy
00:18:39.700 though,
00:18:40.020 you know,
00:18:40.380 and for whatever,
00:18:43.220 reason,
00:18:43.840 I got moved
00:18:45.040 across the street
00:18:45.880 into a separate building
00:18:47.180 though,
00:18:47.520 which I actually liked
00:18:48.380 because it gave me
00:18:49.260 more room to grow
00:18:51.300 and so the students
00:18:52.120 would,
00:18:52.860 when the teachers,
00:18:53.560 I had,
00:18:54.600 all the students
00:18:55.280 would rotate,
00:18:56.120 the teachers would bring
00:18:56.780 them across the street.
00:18:57.540 I had this great lab,
00:18:58.660 multimedia lab
00:18:59.440 with a 3D printer.
00:19:01.320 We were investing
00:19:02.220 in new equipment,
00:19:03.840 camera technology,
00:19:05.640 Photoshop.
00:19:06.040 I had 11 iMacs
00:19:09.140 running Premiere Pro
00:19:11.100 and Photoshop.
00:19:12.600 How were the kids
00:19:13.480 responding to this?
00:19:14.440 Well,
00:19:14.640 you're describing a program,
00:19:16.360 it sounds to me
00:19:16.940 like you're describing
00:19:17.640 a program
00:19:18.240 that was successful
00:19:19.740 and that grew.
00:19:20.820 Is that the case?
00:19:21.940 And the kids,
00:19:22.960 were they responding well
00:19:24.160 to what you were teaching?
00:19:25.760 I think that
00:19:26.620 it was really interesting
00:19:27.820 to notice the difference.
00:19:28.860 The students downstairs,
00:19:31.180 behavioral versus
00:19:32.260 physical challenges,
00:19:33.080 the students upstairs
00:19:34.620 were the ones
00:19:35.240 that resonated the most
00:19:36.520 with Photoshop,
00:19:38.920 video editing.
00:19:39.640 There was an enthusiasm
00:19:40.600 that,
00:19:41.960 so a student with autism,
00:19:43.100 something about
00:19:43.740 some of these skills,
00:19:44.860 they just love,
00:19:46.120 you get them going
00:19:46.740 on video editing.
00:19:48.500 That's very detail-oriented.
00:19:50.460 Yeah,
00:19:51.080 and so I had,
00:19:52.500 I just loved
00:19:53.420 working with those students
00:19:54.720 and I didn't get to do that
00:19:55.820 until my
00:19:56.400 last two years.
00:19:59.880 So,
00:20:00.700 but it was
00:20:01.520 the first two years
00:20:02.380 with those other students,
00:20:03.080 I still think
00:20:03.620 I was making progress
00:20:04.400 with them,
00:20:05.000 like bringing in digital.
00:20:06.140 I had,
00:20:07.040 as a teacher,
00:20:07.780 you're not supposed
00:20:08.220 to have favorites,
00:20:09.020 but this,
00:20:10.760 the student
00:20:11.460 that I was probably
00:20:11.940 the most fond of
00:20:12.800 who ended up
00:20:13.700 getting kicked out
00:20:14.400 over something
00:20:14.920 that,
00:20:16.460 he was just
00:20:17.680 a brilliant illustrator.
00:20:19.720 He could draw,
00:20:20.680 which I keep,
00:20:21.300 just incredible
00:20:22.100 and came from nothing.
00:20:24.600 And most of these kids,
00:20:27.200 it was the,
00:20:28.020 I think the core issue
00:20:29.060 was just there was no parents.
00:20:30.500 The parents,
00:20:31.240 I mean,
00:20:31.420 we would have open house
00:20:32.300 and no one
00:20:33.180 would show up.
00:20:35.100 Right.
00:20:35.900 So they were on their own.
00:20:37.820 Yeah.
00:20:38.320 And that student
00:20:40.260 in particular,
00:20:41.340 I found something
00:20:42.060 that resonated with him.
00:20:43.320 We invested in like
00:20:44.080 a critter drawing tablet
00:20:45.120 and he accelerated
00:20:46.760 with that,
00:20:47.380 but the problem came
00:20:48.260 in the form,
00:20:48.900 I noticed,
00:20:49.280 when they would say,
00:20:50.320 he's drawing
00:20:52.120 illustrations
00:20:53.000 of samurais in combat.
00:20:55.920 What good
00:20:56.520 is that going to do him?
00:20:57.840 We want him
00:20:58.460 to do projects
00:20:59.540 that are relevant
00:21:00.140 to the school,
00:21:01.660 but then they would
00:21:02.160 give me no
00:21:03.080 criteria of,
00:21:05.960 or set plans.
00:21:07.880 There was no curriculum
00:21:08.820 in place.
00:21:09.300 I developed it all myself,
00:21:10.520 which I wasn't.
00:21:12.280 There's pros and cons
00:21:13.460 to that.
00:21:14.660 There's a lot
00:21:15.020 of freedom to that,
00:21:15.920 but the challenge
00:21:16.900 is that it allows
00:21:18.040 them to come in
00:21:18.880 at their convenience
00:21:20.180 if they...
00:21:21.100 And who was they?
00:21:23.300 Leadership,
00:21:24.700 which I never
00:21:25.980 had an issue with.
00:21:26.820 I never had an issue
00:21:27.800 until I published
00:21:28.880 that video.
00:21:29.920 Okay,
00:21:30.340 so let's talk
00:21:31.820 about that.
00:21:32.900 Tell everybody
00:21:33.680 about what the video was.
00:21:35.660 We'll clip it into this
00:21:36.880 so that people
00:21:37.460 can see it,
00:21:38.120 obviously,
00:21:38.760 but describe
00:21:39.940 why was it
00:21:41.840 that you were
00:21:42.320 posting videos
00:21:43.160 and how did
00:21:45.940 this particular one
00:21:46.760 come about?
00:21:47.280 So these guys
00:21:48.880 want to talk
00:21:49.380 about J.K. Rowling?
00:21:51.240 So what's going on
00:21:52.340 with that?
00:21:52.620 What do you want
00:21:52.920 to know?
00:21:55.400 She's had a pretty
00:21:56.240 controversial past.
00:21:57.580 I just want to know
00:21:58.140 what are your thoughts
00:21:59.060 on it?
00:21:59.940 Do you still like
00:22:01.060 her work 0.89
00:22:01.640 despite her
00:22:02.720 bigoted opinions?
00:22:05.240 So let's get
00:22:05.920 specific, though.
00:22:07.500 Let's define
00:22:08.160 bigoted opinions.
00:22:09.060 She has had a history
00:22:10.720 of being extremely
00:22:11.680 transphobic,
00:22:12.520 I've heard.
00:22:13.600 You've heard,
00:22:14.260 so can you give
00:22:14.880 me an example?
00:22:15.320 So one of
00:22:17.260 these tweets
00:22:18.140 that she came
00:22:18.880 out with
00:22:19.480 in 2019,
00:22:21.280 she said,
00:22:22.640 dress however
00:22:23.200 you please,
00:22:24.100 call yourself
00:22:24.800 whatever you like,
00:22:26.000 sleep with any
00:22:27.040 consenting adult
00:22:28.120 who will have
00:22:28.960 you live
00:22:31.140 your best life
00:22:32.460 in peace
00:22:33.240 and security,
00:22:34.140 but force women 1.00
00:22:35.040 out of their jobs
00:22:36.060 for stating
00:22:36.720 that sex 0.95
00:22:39.500 is real.
00:22:40.860 So you find
00:22:41.500 that bigoted?
00:22:41.960 I don't really
00:22:42.800 have an opinion
00:22:43.480 on it,
00:22:44.000 but I'm just
00:22:44.820 going with what
00:22:45.680 a lot of other
00:22:46.700 people have said.
00:22:47.800 So let's pause it.
00:22:48.640 Let's not go with
00:22:49.580 what other people
00:22:50.160 are saying.
00:22:50.580 Let's try and
00:22:51.260 learn how to
00:22:51.800 critically think.
00:22:52.640 So let's
00:22:53.080 analyze the tweet
00:22:54.060 ourselves.
00:22:54.920 So that statement,
00:22:56.400 do you see
00:22:56.920 anything problematic?
00:22:58.160 Force women 1.00
00:22:58.960 out of their jobs
00:23:00.480 for stating
00:23:01.340 that sex 0.95
00:23:02.440 is real.
00:23:03.240 So when I hear
00:23:03.960 that, I'm
00:23:04.340 interpreting that
00:23:05.100 as meaning
00:23:05.600 if a woman 0.96
00:23:07.200 says that,
00:23:08.120 you know,
00:23:08.340 saying that there's
00:23:09.120 a difference between
00:23:09.800 men and female
00:23:10.480 and then being
00:23:11.440 attacked as
00:23:12.520 transphobic,
00:23:13.600 I think that's
00:23:14.100 what she's saying
00:23:15.240 by attacking
00:23:16.300 someone for stating
00:23:17.220 that sex is real.
00:23:18.300 That is exactly
00:23:19.100 what she's saying.
00:23:20.020 Is that transphobic
00:23:21.020 to you?
00:23:21.980 So,
00:23:22.680 to me,
00:23:25.240 no.
00:23:26.060 So is there
00:23:26.480 anything you disagree
00:23:27.220 with in that tweet?
00:23:29.080 Uh,
00:23:29.640 in that tweet,
00:23:32.280 I can't really
00:23:33.300 see anything
00:23:34.060 that I myself
00:23:35.260 disagree with.
00:23:36.440 So now that
00:23:37.120 we're looking at it
00:23:37.760 like, oh,
00:23:38.200 there's not much
00:23:38.600 difference between
00:23:39.120 me or her,
00:23:39.580 do you,
00:23:40.020 why do you,
00:23:41.860 do you think
00:23:42.260 it's fair
00:23:42.760 that there's a,
00:23:45.100 that she's being
00:23:45.940 attacked by a large
00:23:47.020 group of people
00:23:47.600 and people are
00:23:48.120 calling her,
00:23:48.640 like you said,
00:23:49.440 at the beginning
00:23:49.940 of this conversation,
00:23:50.740 you said,
00:23:51.380 given the fact
00:23:52.360 that J.K. Rowling
00:23:53.480 is transphobic,
00:23:54.660 how do you feel
00:23:55.240 about Harry Potter?
00:23:56.480 Now,
00:23:57.200 retroactively looking
00:23:58.140 at that statement,
00:23:59.380 do you think that
00:23:59.860 that was the best
00:24:00.400 way to phrase?
00:24:01.300 No,
00:24:01.720 I feel like an idiot
00:24:02.420 now.
00:24:03.400 That's okay,
00:24:04.000 though,
00:24:04.180 but this is why
00:24:04.960 we do this,
00:24:05.480 to learn how to think.
00:24:07.020 I discovered
00:24:07.740 2017 a video
00:24:10.060 of a professor,
00:24:12.320 low-quality video
00:24:13.460 in this classroom
00:24:15.060 that looked like mine.
00:24:15.940 You're standing
00:24:16.280 in front of the
00:24:16.580 classroom talking
00:24:17.140 about archetypes
00:24:17.960 of Harry Potter.
00:24:18.840 It was you,
00:24:19.580 and I was like,
00:24:20.020 that's cool.
00:24:21.540 And this is 2017.
00:24:25.120 That was the first
00:24:25.620 video I saw of you,
00:24:26.560 and I went down
00:24:27.200 in the rabbit hole,
00:24:27.740 caffeine,
00:24:28.140 and all that,
00:24:29.060 classics.
00:24:30.200 And I said to my,
00:24:32.920 I'm going to try this
00:24:33.860 because I was teaching
00:24:35.080 students about filmmaking
00:24:36.320 and movies.
00:24:37.740 And I was teaching
00:24:39.060 a journalism class,
00:24:40.360 and I was like,
00:24:42.240 this ties in directly,
00:24:43.660 and I just,
00:24:43.980 I loved this style.
00:24:45.280 I was like,
00:24:45.940 teaching is a performance.
00:24:47.880 There's a performance
00:24:48.600 art element to this
00:24:49.620 because you have
00:24:50.240 to be engaging
00:24:50.880 to be able to stand
00:24:51.660 in front of a classroom
00:24:52.420 and get them engaged.
00:24:54.320 There's an artistic
00:24:56.540 element to that
00:24:57.440 that I'm not quite,
00:24:58.680 not sure how to
00:24:59.400 articulate that.
00:25:00.400 It might not be right.
00:25:01.040 No, you did.
00:25:01.840 It's a performance.
00:25:02.980 But that's what I saw
00:25:03.640 in your video.
00:25:04.260 So I went in,
00:25:06.280 it was probably
00:25:06.840 a few weeks later,
00:25:07.940 and I,
00:25:08.740 we have all the cameras,
00:25:09.780 and I was teaching
00:25:10.540 a student how to use it.
00:25:11.600 I said,
00:25:11.980 okay, now you know
00:25:12.560 how to use the camera.
00:25:13.140 Let's try and record
00:25:13.860 this lecture.
00:25:14.420 I saw this thing
00:25:15.020 on YouTube.
00:25:15.660 Yeah.
00:25:16.100 And I essentially
00:25:17.480 ran through archetypes
00:25:18.560 in Harry Potter,
00:25:19.160 and they loved it.
00:25:20.200 And that video
00:25:20.860 is on YouTube.
00:25:21.860 People can watch it.
00:25:22.960 No one watched it
00:25:23.940 at the time.
00:25:25.080 But it's up there,
00:25:26.000 and that's years ago.
00:25:27.480 It'd be five years ago.
00:25:28.540 That's how it started.
00:25:29.280 So I started,
00:25:29.760 and I was like,
00:25:31.040 this is a great,
00:25:32.120 I agree with you
00:25:32.840 that YouTube
00:25:33.460 is a Gutenberg revolution
00:25:34.840 that we cannot comprehend
00:25:36.260 what it means.
00:25:38.640 It is massive potential,
00:25:42.360 and it's exciting.
00:25:44.820 So I fell in love
00:25:47.400 with that aspect of it.
00:25:48.400 Started to,
00:25:49.340 because there's
00:25:49.920 teaching portfolios.
00:25:51.180 What better way,
00:25:51.920 what better thing
00:25:52.660 to have in a teaching portfolio
00:25:54.060 than a recording
00:25:56.780 of you actually teaching.
00:25:58.480 So they ask you
00:25:59.440 to have artifacts,
00:26:00.560 provide artifacts
00:26:01.260 of your teaching.
00:26:02.580 Here's a video
00:26:03.440 of me teaching.
00:26:04.320 Right.
00:26:04.580 Beat that.
00:26:05.300 It's like,
00:26:06.140 so that was the thinking.
00:26:08.000 And I had,
00:26:08.420 and also in multimedia,
00:26:09.840 we would do
00:26:10.720 reviews of movies
00:26:12.720 like The Queen's Gambit.
00:26:14.200 It did,
00:26:14.720 you know,
00:26:15.060 it was just a way
00:26:16.260 to get students
00:26:17.000 to practice
00:26:18.040 articulating themselves.
00:26:19.340 Public speaking,
00:26:20.220 when you don't have
00:26:21.180 a room full of people
00:26:23.120 for them to practice
00:26:24.300 in front of,
00:26:25.260 a camera
00:26:25.840 is not a bad substitute
00:26:27.820 because it allows them
00:26:28.740 to watch it back,
00:26:30.120 hear their voice,
00:26:31.320 which at first,
00:26:32.620 no one likes.
00:26:33.500 It causes you to cringe.
00:26:34.780 It's a very interesting response.
00:26:36.200 Right, right.
00:26:37.200 But you can learn
00:26:38.160 so much from watching
00:26:39.220 and those repetitions
00:26:41.040 and doing it again
00:26:42.540 and again
00:26:42.980 and they loved it.
00:26:45.000 Some of the students
00:26:45.520 just really loved it.
00:26:47.340 So to bring us
00:26:47.960 to that video,
00:26:49.200 they asked me
00:26:50.340 to do a newscast.
00:26:51.960 They're like,
00:26:52.160 we want to try a new idea.
00:26:53.740 Can you do a newscast
00:26:54.620 for the school
00:26:55.160 once a week,
00:26:55.920 which is what I was doing
00:26:56.920 in that public school.
00:26:58.920 We would,
00:26:59.200 but that was a legit newscast
00:27:01.020 that would go out live
00:27:02.020 to every classroom
00:27:03.260 once a week on Friday.
00:27:04.920 They had all this
00:27:05.780 technology to do it.
00:27:07.180 And they would upload
00:27:10.620 everything to social media.
00:27:11.800 That's why I have a Twitter.
00:27:13.060 That was the only reason
00:27:13.640 I even had a Twitter account
00:27:14.980 at the time.
00:27:16.700 That was the original school.
00:27:18.540 The original school of public school.
00:27:19.800 I can even say that.
00:27:20.600 It was Neshoba Regional High School
00:27:22.200 in Massachusetts.
00:27:24.060 So if you go to my Twitter feed,
00:27:25.500 the very only first tweets,
00:27:27.280 they're all just
00:27:27.740 Neshoba student broadcast
00:27:29.080 because,
00:27:29.920 and the head of my department
00:27:31.000 would ask me
00:27:31.560 to just share them.
00:27:32.640 I thought that was just normal.
00:27:34.980 And there was no,
00:27:35.640 students loved it.
00:27:37.920 So how much recording
00:27:39.240 of your teaching
00:27:40.000 were you doing
00:27:40.760 in your classes
00:27:41.520 in the second school?
00:27:44.460 Not too much.
00:27:45.240 I mean,
00:27:45.500 I would not,
00:27:46.540 I would,
00:27:46.920 it was more projects
00:27:48.020 like the Queen's Gambit review.
00:27:51.080 I had a colleague,
00:27:52.260 the music teacher,
00:27:53.340 had a passion
00:27:53.880 for camera technology as well.
00:27:55.640 And he was my closest collaborator
00:27:57.460 because we were voc teachers,
00:27:59.400 vocational teachers,
00:28:00.480 meaning we worked
00:28:01.220 with the whole building.
00:28:02.640 We were the only ones
00:28:03.460 that everyone else
00:28:04.340 worked with just their sites.
00:28:06.880 There was like a culinary teacher,
00:28:09.060 landscaping,
00:28:10.500 and they were always
00:28:10.980 experimenting with the vocations,
00:28:12.380 but music and multimedia
00:28:13.880 always remained consistent.
00:28:15.960 How big a school?
00:28:17.640 Only,
00:28:18.860 downstairs,
00:28:20.200 50 students.
00:28:22.000 Upstairs,
00:28:22.680 50,
00:28:23.020 about 50 students.
00:28:23.920 Okay.
00:28:24.400 And how many teachers?
00:28:26.180 Well,
00:28:26.420 the ratio was-
00:28:27.400 You said it was
00:28:27.880 three to one,
00:28:28.540 about, eh?
00:28:29.460 That's what they strive for,
00:28:30.940 but they're constantly
00:28:32.440 battling understaffing
00:28:33.720 because teachers
00:28:34.480 just vanish
00:28:35.220 often.
00:28:36.780 Had you done a lot of videos
00:28:38.160 in the build-up
00:28:39.080 to the video
00:28:39.760 that you,
00:28:40.760 that got so much attention?
00:28:42.520 I had been posting
00:28:43.100 little things,
00:28:44.540 like,
00:28:45.300 just like I was mentioning,
00:28:46.320 like,
00:28:46.860 reviews and things,
00:28:47.720 but no one was watching them
00:28:48.960 and no one cared.
00:28:49.900 It wasn't,
00:28:51.440 you know,
00:28:51.940 and working with
00:28:53.920 the music teacher,
00:28:54.660 we would do,
00:28:55.280 like,
00:28:55.680 the mathematics
00:28:56.280 of the Fibonacci sequence
00:28:57.740 and music,
00:28:58.720 things which are still
00:28:59.720 up there.
00:29:00.640 So,
00:29:01.160 if you're curious
00:29:01.620 to dig in the,
00:29:02.220 you can,
00:29:03.160 if anyone's watching this,
00:29:04.200 but,
00:29:05.500 but,
00:29:05.860 to answer your question
00:29:06.940 about how this video
00:29:07.660 came about,
00:29:08.520 so they asked me
00:29:09.060 to do a news broadcast.
00:29:10.280 We're not equipped
00:29:10.780 to do that,
00:29:11.340 but we tried anyways.
00:29:12.760 And they're like,
00:29:13.080 we want this kid
00:29:13.780 to,
00:29:14.180 to be the person
00:29:15.960 on camera
00:29:16.560 and just go through.
00:29:17.300 This is what happened
00:29:17.940 in the school this week.
00:29:19.040 So,
00:29:19.480 we go in the room,
00:29:19.980 we go to set it up
00:29:20.660 and he's,
00:29:21.180 uh,
00:29:21.620 getting stage fright,
00:29:22.900 camera shy.
00:29:23.700 He's just,
00:29:24.980 and I think it's
00:29:26.140 very important in teaching
00:29:26.860 to lead by example.
00:29:28.320 So,
00:29:28.900 let's just treat,
00:29:30.620 let's just do a warmup.
00:29:31.880 All set on camera.
00:29:33.380 You operate it,
00:29:34.180 let's just have a conversation.
00:29:35.600 Treat it like a podcast
00:29:36.920 real quick.
00:29:37.480 Let's do like a five minute
00:29:38.400 warmup.
00:29:39.300 Just ask me something
00:29:40.280 that you want to,
00:29:41.740 that would interest you.
00:29:42.860 Okay,
00:29:43.240 he hits record.
00:29:44.900 All right,
00:29:45.200 so how have your views
00:29:46.040 on J.K. Rowling changed
00:29:47.320 given her bigoted opinions?
00:29:48.980 Or how have your views
00:29:49.840 on Harry Potter changed
00:29:50.920 given J.K. Rowling's
00:29:52.240 bigoted opinions?
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00:31:27.660 Well, first we need
00:31:31.660 to address that
00:31:32.200 and then just walk
00:31:32.740 through it
00:31:33.180 and I thought,
00:31:34.540 that's interesting,
00:31:36.120 you know,
00:31:36.380 and maybe I'll try
00:31:37.680 something new
00:31:38.200 with this YouTube thing
00:31:39.120 and I just uploaded it.
00:31:40.180 I was like,
00:31:40.380 that's interesting enough
00:31:41.820 to post.
00:31:42.400 I didn't think anyone
00:31:43.020 would watch it.
00:31:44.060 Walk us through
00:31:44.680 your response.
00:31:45.560 What did you know
00:31:46.120 about,
00:31:46.800 you mentioned
00:31:47.640 watching the Harry Potter,
00:31:50.000 an analysis
00:31:50.580 of Harry Potter
00:31:51.260 I had done
00:31:51.880 and let's walk
00:31:52.700 through it.
00:31:53.300 Well, first we need
00:31:54.240 to address,
00:31:55.460 is she bigoted?
00:31:57.280 That's the glaring
00:31:58.080 presupposition.
00:31:58.920 Right, right, right.
00:32:00.360 So that constitutes
00:32:01.440 a loaded question.
00:32:03.380 Right.
00:32:04.180 So what are you
00:32:05.260 basing that upon?
00:32:08.460 Well, you know,
00:32:09.600 I've heard that she has,
00:32:10.620 she's,
00:32:11.000 tweets.
00:32:13.300 Okay, do you have any other,
00:32:14.880 I can show you the tweets
00:32:16.180 if you want.
00:32:17.700 Sure, let's take a look.
00:32:19.740 Dig some tweets out.
00:32:22.120 We read the tweets.
00:32:23.480 Okay, so do you find that,
00:32:25.020 what about that
00:32:25.860 is transphobic?
00:32:28.220 And I don't remember
00:32:28.820 the exact tweet
00:32:29.500 and we clarify it
00:32:30.680 and then he goes,
00:32:31.880 oh, but she did apologize 0.99
00:32:32.840 as well for this other thing,
00:32:34.460 this other piece of evidence.
00:32:35.880 Okay, let's take a look.
00:32:38.060 Same process.
00:32:41.200 Then we,
00:32:41.860 so I point out,
00:32:42.500 okay, so there's really
00:32:43.540 no much difference,
00:32:44.180 there's not much difference
00:32:44.920 between you and her.
00:32:47.180 You understand that
00:32:47.980 she's stating that
00:32:50.320 it's important to her
00:32:51.480 her experience
00:32:53.000 as a woman.
00:32:54.820 She has no issue
00:32:55.800 with someone
00:32:56.300 identifying how they want
00:32:57.600 to identify,
00:32:58.300 but that's not going to change.
00:32:59.940 That shouldn't impact
00:33:01.100 her experience
00:33:02.460 and her,
00:33:02.920 the reality
00:33:03.540 that she's a woman
00:33:04.640 and what that means
00:33:05.720 in reality.
00:33:09.380 No, I agree with that.
00:33:10.540 Okay, so now looking back
00:33:11.880 at the beginning
00:33:12.300 of this conversation,
00:33:13.600 that claim you made
00:33:14.820 when you say,
00:33:15.660 call her bigoted,
00:33:16.500 do you think that was
00:33:17.000 a fair thing to say?
00:33:18.660 No, now I feel stupid.
00:33:21.840 That's okay.
00:33:22.640 That's why we do this.
00:33:25.580 And often,
00:33:26.320 I would have
00:33:27.520 interesting conversations
00:33:28.600 when they arose,
00:33:29.420 going back to the idea of,
00:33:30.800 and there was some blowback
00:33:31.780 about that,
00:33:32.280 of why are you having
00:33:33.260 conversations,
00:33:33.980 your job is to teach students
00:33:35.420 how to set up cameras
00:33:38.120 and shoot videos
00:33:39.180 and do photo editing
00:33:41.140 and 3D printing
00:33:41.920 and using this technology.
00:33:44.580 But as we just pointed out,
00:33:46.700 there's extreme,
00:33:47.780 if the goal
00:33:48.800 is to use this technology
00:33:50.560 with students
00:33:51.160 in the way that is going
00:33:51.960 to most benefit them,
00:33:54.820 well, that should be.
00:33:56.360 Use of the technology
00:33:57.760 isn't independent
00:33:58.680 of the content,
00:34:00.640 especially if you're doing
00:34:01.740 video recording.
00:34:03.980 And there's so much utility
00:34:06.140 in teaching students
00:34:09.640 how to think,
00:34:11.860 how to articulate themselves,
00:34:14.440 how to,
00:34:14.920 and often they have questions
00:34:16.020 about things in the world.
00:34:17.180 I've had students ask me,
00:34:18.540 what's a Republican
00:34:20.480 versus a Democrat?
00:34:21.580 And you're like,
00:34:22.000 you're a senior in high school,
00:34:23.020 we need to,
00:34:23.560 let's talk about it.
00:34:24.520 And then we can kill
00:34:25.380 two birds with one stone
00:34:26.440 and then we'll have
00:34:27.320 stuff to edit,
00:34:28.780 you know,
00:34:29.200 and it's things
00:34:29.800 that interest you.
00:34:30.600 So if we're going to,
00:34:31.240 we need footage to edit.
00:34:33.200 Might as well
00:34:33.840 make it interesting.
00:34:35.460 And if we can make it,
00:34:37.760 if we can talk about
00:34:38.680 something that actually
00:34:39.480 matters in the world
00:34:40.320 and you can learn
00:34:40.920 something from it,
00:34:41.760 well, why not?
00:34:43.280 You can't learn
00:34:44.260 to edit footage
00:34:45.740 without having
00:34:46.680 something interesting
00:34:47.760 that you're interested in
00:34:48.840 because there's
00:34:49.600 nothing to edit.
00:34:51.080 And you could just
00:34:52.100 film music videos
00:34:53.140 and things,
00:34:53.760 but I see more utility.
00:34:56.560 And if a student
00:34:57.220 wants to discuss
00:34:58.280 something like that,
00:34:59.220 I see no.
00:35:00.100 That was my reasoning
00:35:00.900 behind it.
00:35:02.400 Well, that's especially
00:35:03.160 relevant with regards
00:35:04.160 to editing
00:35:04.620 because you want to
00:35:05.540 clip and cut
00:35:06.560 so that you get
00:35:07.280 to the gist of the matter.
00:35:08.340 And that means
00:35:09.240 there has to be
00:35:09.820 something there
00:35:10.400 to focus on.
00:35:12.400 So if you're watching,
00:35:14.180 if a student is watching,
00:35:15.320 they shoot a music video
00:35:16.380 and they're watching
00:35:16.860 themselves playback,
00:35:17.880 dancing,
00:35:18.240 and they're editing that,
00:35:19.500 okay, but when you
00:35:20.400 watch yourself
00:35:21.120 speaking,
00:35:23.820 debating,
00:35:24.620 or just,
00:35:26.280 you're learning
00:35:27.360 those oratory skills,
00:35:29.860 you're getting over
00:35:30.700 public speaking
00:35:31.560 fright,
00:35:33.280 there's more utility,
00:35:35.800 I believe,
00:35:36.300 than simply,
00:35:37.980 there's nothing wrong
00:35:38.740 if a student wants
00:35:39.460 to do something
00:35:40.200 like a music video.
00:35:41.220 Well, you could do
00:35:41.680 something creative too,
00:35:42.760 but even then,
00:35:43.460 it's got to have a point.
00:35:45.600 Why not encapsulate
00:35:46.740 as much as possible
00:35:47.540 if our objective
00:35:48.760 is to use
00:35:50.460 what we have
00:35:51.140 to help students
00:35:51.860 as best we can?
00:35:54.120 Well,
00:35:54.780 obviously,
00:35:55.760 also,
00:35:56.460 the technique
00:35:57.900 that you're using,
00:35:58.860 so to speak,
00:35:59.500 insofar as it's
00:36:00.240 a technique,
00:36:01.440 is asking
00:36:02.580 pertinent questions,
00:36:04.620 there isn't any
00:36:05.300 difference between
00:36:05.920 that and teaching
00:36:06.540 people how to think
00:36:07.460 because if you're
00:36:08.700 thinking,
00:36:09.220 you're asking
00:36:09.760 yourself pertinent
00:36:10.960 questions,
00:36:11.660 and you're certainly
00:36:12.480 not going to learn
00:36:13.020 to do that
00:36:13.540 without an example.
00:36:15.140 The whole point
00:36:15.800 of being a teacher
00:36:16.520 is to,
00:36:17.360 or at least
00:36:17.900 one of the main
00:36:18.500 points of being
00:36:19.080 a teacher,
00:36:19.660 is to teach people
00:36:21.680 how to ask
00:36:22.320 themselves pertinent
00:36:23.300 questions and to
00:36:24.200 model that.
00:36:25.760 So,
00:36:26.180 why do you think,
00:36:28.720 so it's interesting
00:36:30.200 that it was the
00:36:30.980 conversation about
00:36:31.860 J.K. Rowling
00:36:32.620 that went viral,
00:36:33.560 and she certainly
00:36:34.420 caused an endless
00:36:36.840 stream of political
00:36:37.860 upset in the U.K.,
00:36:39.520 turned into quite a
00:36:41.060 stunning advocate
00:36:41.720 for free speech,
00:36:42.600 and she has,
00:36:43.960 in fact,
00:36:44.300 focused on this
00:36:45.220 trans issue,
00:36:46.400 which is likely
00:36:47.780 the most bizarre
00:36:48.800 issue that's ever
00:36:49.900 dominated the
00:36:50.660 political space,
00:36:51.480 as far as I can tell,
00:36:53.120 and I guess
00:36:54.560 one of the things
00:36:55.720 that your video
00:36:56.320 demonstrated was
00:36:57.400 the pertinence
00:36:58.400 of that issue
00:37:00.020 to students
00:37:01.720 who have
00:37:03.840 questionable
00:37:04.320 reasons for being
00:37:05.260 concerned about it
00:37:06.020 to begin with.
00:37:07.040 Why do you think
00:37:08.740 that this particular
00:37:09.620 student was
00:37:11.380 possessed by
00:37:12.220 the belief
00:37:12.760 that transphobia
00:37:14.800 was a thing
00:37:15.940 to begin with,
00:37:16.760 because that's also
00:37:17.560 a bastardization
00:37:18.520 of words
00:37:19.040 in the most
00:37:20.000 manipulative
00:37:20.920 possible way,
00:37:22.000 to take a
00:37:22.860 clinical terminology,
00:37:24.480 phobia,
00:37:25.120 and then to
00:37:25.840 append it to
00:37:26.680 objection to
00:37:28.040 anything that
00:37:28.900 the person
00:37:29.440 who's objecting,
00:37:30.740 or what would
00:37:31.540 you say,
00:37:32.080 I can object
00:37:33.840 to something,
00:37:34.800 if someone's
00:37:35.380 irritated about
00:37:36.100 that,
00:37:36.480 they're going
00:37:36.840 to medicalize
00:37:37.900 my objection
00:37:38.840 and describe
00:37:39.880 it as a
00:37:40.300 pathology.
00:37:41.020 That's what
00:37:41.380 happens when
00:37:41.920 you use the
00:37:42.440 term phobia.
00:37:43.740 It's unbelievably
00:37:44.940 manipulative,
00:37:45.840 and I would say
00:37:46.360 the radical
00:37:46.840 leftists are
00:37:47.540 stunningly good
00:37:49.000 at that
00:37:49.400 manipulation
00:37:49.880 of language.
00:37:50.920 But now
00:37:51.180 you have a
00:37:51.640 student who
00:37:52.320 is objecting
00:37:54.060 to J.K.
00:37:54.940 Rowling on
00:37:55.620 the basis
00:37:56.220 of transphobia,
00:37:57.540 and you're
00:37:57.900 asking questions
00:37:58.800 about it.
00:37:59.280 Now, is that
00:38:00.020 part of what
00:38:00.780 also got you?
00:38:01.580 It's obviously
00:38:02.160 one of the
00:38:02.680 things that
00:38:03.040 made this
00:38:03.380 go viral,
00:38:04.260 but was it
00:38:05.180 also one of
00:38:05.760 the things
00:38:06.080 that got
00:38:06.400 you in
00:38:06.740 trouble?
00:38:08.040 Well, there's
00:38:08.340 no way for
00:38:08.820 me to know
00:38:10.240 exactly.
00:38:11.660 I think that
00:38:12.220 in a,
00:38:13.900 I think there's
00:38:14.640 a, as you
00:38:15.540 know, most
00:38:15.920 things in life
00:38:16.460 are far more
00:38:17.060 complex than
00:38:18.200 a singular
00:38:18.640 explanation.
00:38:19.740 I think that
00:38:20.480 a lot of it
00:38:21.140 was the
00:38:21.780 virality
00:38:22.540 itself, given
00:38:25.340 that we're a
00:38:26.480 school where
00:38:27.020 there are some
00:38:27.740 loose practices.
00:38:29.200 There's been
00:38:29.800 things like the
00:38:30.940 two principals
00:38:31.880 just being
00:38:32.340 removed.
00:38:33.480 There was a
00:38:34.120 tax scandal
00:38:34.920 a few years
00:38:35.600 prior to my
00:38:36.180 arrival.
00:38:37.800 Because we
00:38:38.340 have, the way
00:38:38.940 grades are
00:38:39.480 assigned, often
00:38:40.300 it's the
00:38:41.180 site sitting
00:38:41.740 there, it's
00:38:42.100 like, okay,
00:38:42.500 what's Jimmy
00:38:43.000 going to get
00:38:43.500 in your
00:38:43.800 class?
00:38:45.620 Give him
00:38:45.940 like a
00:38:46.400 73.
00:38:47.800 And there's
00:38:48.380 no record,
00:38:49.800 there's no
00:38:50.100 reasoning to
00:38:50.800 it, and
00:38:51.260 that's literally
00:38:51.860 how it
00:38:52.340 occurs.
00:38:53.780 So, why
00:38:55.060 did they
00:38:55.420 offer me
00:38:55.900 $9,000 to
00:38:57.240 shut up, or 0.99
00:38:59.560 why, to
00:39:00.020 sign this, and
00:39:00.940 like, why
00:39:02.160 do you need
00:39:02.580 an NDA?
00:39:03.500 It's, so
00:39:04.020 it's, there's...
00:39:06.560 So, there
00:39:07.260 was worry
00:39:07.760 about potential
00:39:09.180 public attention.
00:39:10.800 Well, you can
00:39:11.260 understand, I
00:39:11.920 mean, the
00:39:12.560 school that
00:39:13.060 you're operating
00:39:13.640 in is
00:39:14.260 insanely
00:39:15.100 complex.
00:39:16.060 There's
00:39:16.380 absolutely no
00:39:17.440 way to run
00:39:17.920 a school like
00:39:18.420 that that
00:39:18.780 isn't full of
00:39:19.640 trouble, obviously,
00:39:21.260 because the
00:39:21.680 whole school's
00:39:22.260 built on
00:39:22.680 trouble, and
00:39:23.180 so I can
00:39:24.220 imagine that
00:39:24.860 the people who
00:39:25.360 are running
00:39:25.680 the school
00:39:26.080 would be
00:39:26.440 nervous about
00:39:27.040 that, because
00:39:27.520 I can't
00:39:28.040 possibly see
00:39:28.740 that there's
00:39:29.160 any way that
00:39:29.680 you could do
00:39:30.140 it right, right?
00:39:31.560 I mean...
00:39:32.140 That's a good
00:39:32.540 point.
00:39:32.940 Well, you
00:39:33.320 mentioned that
00:39:34.020 teachers come
00:39:34.660 for one day
00:39:35.280 and they
00:39:35.560 leave, or
00:39:35.900 they come
00:39:36.220 for a week.
00:39:36.760 It's a system
00:39:39.880 designed to
00:39:41.120 collate chaos
00:39:43.240 and to try
00:39:43.960 to produce
00:39:44.380 some sort
00:39:44.860 of order, but
00:39:45.480 it seems to
00:39:46.220 me to be
00:39:46.600 entirely
00:39:47.160 impossible.
00:39:48.100 Pretty much, no
00:39:48.640 matter what
00:39:49.020 you do, you're
00:39:49.540 going to do
00:39:50.460 something wrong.
00:39:51.560 I mean, how
00:39:52.160 the hell could
00:39:52.760 you possibly
00:39:53.340 avoid it?
00:39:54.020 Every single
00:39:54.700 one of those
00:39:55.180 kids is a
00:39:55.820 pitfall, and
00:39:57.020 I don't mean
00:39:57.580 that in the...
00:39:59.100 That's not a
00:40:00.140 criticism, it's
00:40:01.340 just...
00:40:01.760 Well, the
00:40:02.600 system's designed
00:40:03.580 so that
00:40:04.040 every single
00:40:04.540 kid that
00:40:04.960 comes there
00:40:05.440 is trouble
00:40:07.100 on stilts, and
00:40:08.760 so...
00:40:09.520 And then you're
00:40:10.520 also going to
00:40:11.120 have the case
00:40:11.640 that many of
00:40:12.540 the teachers
00:40:13.020 who are going
00:40:13.540 to apply are
00:40:14.240 going to be
00:40:14.700 people who
00:40:15.160 are applying
00:40:15.600 to that
00:40:15.980 school because
00:40:16.500 it's a
00:40:16.900 last-ditch
00:40:17.580 possibility.
00:40:19.820 And so...
00:40:20.560 I often...
00:40:21.960 Yeah, you
00:40:24.100 often...
00:40:24.960 I wondered
00:40:27.040 that sometimes.
00:40:27.760 I'm like, why
00:40:28.160 am I here?
00:40:28.760 I mean, the
00:40:29.000 health insurance
00:40:29.540 is awful.
00:40:30.600 It's like,
00:40:31.520 pay is not...
00:40:33.580 Why choose?
00:40:34.980 That's why
00:40:35.380 people leave.
00:40:36.280 But there's a
00:40:37.820 lot of good
00:40:38.480 people there
00:40:39.140 that aren't...
00:40:40.300 It's not like
00:40:40.780 this is the
00:40:41.220 bottom of the
00:40:41.700 barrel, teachers
00:40:42.380 that can't...
00:40:42.760 There are some
00:40:43.240 of those.
00:40:44.040 It's like, dude,
00:40:44.660 what are you
00:40:44.920 doing?
00:40:45.040 Right, there'd
00:40:45.440 be some of
00:40:45.960 those, yes.
00:40:46.720 But there are
00:40:47.220 also many good
00:40:49.580 people that are
00:40:50.520 doing it because
00:40:51.740 there's something
00:40:52.220 fulfilling about
00:40:53.420 it that I miss,
00:40:54.880 to be honest.
00:40:56.540 There's...
00:40:57.220 I miss it.
00:40:58.680 I think what
00:40:59.940 drew my attention
00:41:00.800 to your video
00:41:01.940 and also what
00:41:03.120 made me want
00:41:04.040 to talk to
00:41:04.500 you is because
00:41:05.140 I think the
00:41:06.340 reason that
00:41:06.820 that video
00:41:07.420 went viral
00:41:08.460 and drew the
00:41:10.420 attention of
00:41:12.160 the people
00:41:12.680 whose attention
00:41:13.760 it did draw
00:41:14.500 was because
00:41:15.220 you were
00:41:16.360 obviously very
00:41:17.580 sane and
00:41:18.220 careful in an
00:41:20.180 insane situation
00:41:21.180 discussing something
00:41:22.160 utterly preposterous.
00:41:24.120 And it was all
00:41:25.520 of that contrast
00:41:26.340 that made it
00:41:27.460 fascinating.
00:41:28.240 I mean, the
00:41:31.100 fact that that
00:41:31.760 issue even
00:41:32.400 arose in a
00:41:33.180 school is
00:41:34.060 ridiculous under
00:41:35.400 anything approximating
00:41:37.200 normal times.
00:41:39.340 And yet you
00:41:39.960 handled it
00:41:40.780 carefully and
00:41:43.100 thoughtfully and
00:41:44.000 you did it in a
00:41:44.640 way that was
00:41:45.420 obviously of
00:41:46.240 educational benefit
00:41:47.360 to the students.
00:41:49.540 And none of
00:41:51.400 that should be
00:41:52.100 surprising,
00:41:53.000 actually, like
00:41:53.840 the manner in
00:41:55.120 which you
00:41:55.400 addressed it.
00:41:56.020 But it's also
00:41:57.960 the fact that
00:41:58.720 that sane
00:41:59.320 response to
00:42:00.100 that question
00:42:00.700 is surprising
00:42:01.640 in the education
00:42:02.460 system that
00:42:03.140 made it go
00:42:03.660 viral.
00:42:05.160 And so,
00:42:05.860 because we're
00:42:06.640 so accustomed
00:42:07.600 to seeing
00:42:09.600 crazily woke,
00:42:12.460 ideologically
00:42:13.100 possessed,
00:42:13.980 ranting
00:42:14.340 narcissists acting
00:42:16.000 as teachers,
00:42:17.600 ideologically
00:42:18.360 addling children
00:42:19.700 when they ask
00:42:20.460 questions that
00:42:21.160 they should have
00:42:21.780 no concern
00:42:22.400 about whatsoever.
00:42:23.800 Like, it just
00:42:24.440 strikes me as
00:42:25.360 utterly preposterous
00:42:26.380 that a 15-year-old
00:42:28.000 kid would think
00:42:28.980 that it was
00:42:29.520 necessary for him
00:42:30.600 to accuse
00:42:31.620 J.K. Rowling
00:42:32.480 of transphobia.
00:42:34.100 17.
00:42:34.800 17.
00:42:35.520 Okay, so that's
00:42:36.440 just an indication
00:42:38.160 of the state
00:42:39.040 of the school
00:42:40.160 system in general.
00:42:41.300 I don't think he
00:42:41.760 was even
00:42:42.380 accusing her.
00:42:43.420 I think he was
00:42:43.720 just repeating
00:42:44.440 what he thought
00:42:45.060 was reality.
00:42:45.760 Of course,
00:42:46.320 of course,
00:42:46.920 of course,
00:42:47.840 exactly.
00:42:48.320 Well, you said
00:42:48.860 that as you
00:42:50.000 investigated with,
00:42:51.340 you know,
00:42:51.940 some relatively
00:42:52.780 elementary,
00:42:54.280 but also
00:42:55.060 eminently
00:42:55.700 sane questions,
00:42:56.820 that revealed
00:42:57.680 itself very
00:42:58.340 quickly.
00:42:58.980 He was just
00:42:59.740 spouting the
00:43:01.140 cliches of the
00:43:02.040 moment, right?
00:43:02.980 The radical
00:43:03.460 cliches of the
00:43:04.260 moment.
00:43:04.620 And was he
00:43:05.240 doing that
00:43:05.640 because he
00:43:06.040 thought he
00:43:06.440 should?
00:43:07.120 Like, what
00:43:07.600 was your
00:43:08.180 impression of
00:43:08.820 the reasons
00:43:09.280 for his
00:43:09.660 questions?
00:43:10.340 He genuinely
00:43:10.960 believed that
00:43:11.700 that was
00:43:12.480 what the
00:43:13.420 truth was.
00:43:14.480 He thought
00:43:14.700 that was
00:43:14.900 reality.
00:43:15.660 He articulates
00:43:16.900 that.
00:43:17.260 I've heard
00:43:17.880 many classmates
00:43:18.620 state this,
00:43:19.320 so it must
00:43:19.720 be true.
00:43:20.620 In the same
00:43:21.260 way, you hear
00:43:21.700 this often
00:43:22.300 with people.
00:43:23.520 I just made
00:43:24.440 a critique
00:43:24.880 video with
00:43:25.560 Barry Weiss
00:43:26.020 doing this.
00:43:26.460 I was a
00:43:26.660 little hard
00:43:27.020 on her,
00:43:27.900 on Joe
00:43:28.680 Rogan,
00:43:29.200 and she's
00:43:29.600 saying it's
00:43:30.840 the same
00:43:31.140 pattern.
00:43:31.760 She's applying
00:43:32.440 this to
00:43:32.720 Lacey Gabbard
00:43:33.400 and he
00:43:35.140 presses her
00:43:35.900 on it
00:43:36.140 slightly and
00:43:37.260 it dissolves.
00:43:39.700 And we
00:43:40.400 all are
00:43:41.180 capable of
00:43:41.780 doing,
00:43:41.960 we all do
00:43:42.840 do this
00:43:43.380 in our
00:43:43.820 lives.
00:43:44.160 I'm not
00:43:44.520 above it,
00:43:45.800 but no
00:43:46.580 one's above
00:43:47.080 it.
00:43:47.480 No one's 0.64
00:43:47.800 above it.
00:43:48.140 We seek
00:43:51.220 to establish
00:43:52.080 consensus
00:43:52.920 rapidly and
00:43:54.020 radically.
00:43:55.100 And if
00:43:55.600 there's no
00:43:56.180 challenge to
00:43:56.680 the consensus,
00:43:57.360 that's good
00:43:57.800 because it
00:43:58.200 means that
00:43:58.560 we're unified,
00:43:59.260 but it
00:43:59.640 also means
00:44:00.120 that we
00:44:00.440 can build
00:44:00.840 a false
00:44:01.580 consensus.
00:44:02.720 And that
00:44:03.120 happens
00:44:03.440 continually.
00:44:04.680 And I
00:44:05.500 mean,
00:44:05.640 that's one
00:44:05.960 of the
00:44:06.140 dangers of
00:44:06.680 so-called
00:44:07.360 populism,
00:44:08.200 is that
00:44:08.440 it's a
00:44:09.400 false
00:44:09.840 consensus,
00:44:10.680 right?
00:44:10.840 It's a
00:44:11.080 consensus
00:44:11.460 of the
00:44:11.880 moment.
00:44:12.220 It's got
00:44:12.460 no staying
00:44:13.000 power.
00:44:13.620 It can't
00:44:14.220 iterate
00:44:14.500 across time.
00:44:16.160 The
00:44:16.340 antidote
00:44:16.900 to
00:44:17.200 populist
00:44:18.560 consensus
00:44:19.100 is something
00:44:19.760 like alignment
00:44:20.820 with eternal
00:44:21.660 tradition,
00:44:22.500 because it
00:44:23.200 stops the
00:44:23.920 proclivity for
00:44:24.960 rapid consensus
00:44:26.360 from pathologizing.
00:44:28.260 I mean,
00:44:28.460 it's actually a
00:44:29.040 good thing,
00:44:29.560 all things
00:44:29.980 considered,
00:44:30.520 because if
00:44:30.940 human beings
00:44:31.460 couldn't reach
00:44:32.500 agreement on
00:44:34.020 most things
00:44:34.620 rapidly,
00:44:35.360 all we would
00:44:36.060 ever do is
00:44:36.540 fight.
00:44:38.140 But the
00:44:40.100 danger,
00:44:40.560 of course,
00:44:40.880 is a false
00:44:41.420 consensus.
00:44:42.480 And that's
00:44:43.100 obviously what
00:44:43.760 you were
00:44:44.080 questioning.
00:44:44.940 And you
00:44:45.160 did it in
00:44:46.700 an extremely
00:44:47.300 thoughtful
00:44:47.780 manner.
00:44:48.720 Okay,
00:44:48.960 so you
00:44:50.400 recorded that.
00:44:51.320 Your students
00:44:51.720 edited it?
00:44:53.140 How did it
00:44:53.620 end up
00:44:54.480 edited?
00:44:55.440 There was
00:44:57.000 one edit
00:44:57.460 when he
00:44:58.000 takes out
00:44:58.360 his phone
00:44:58.800 because he's
00:44:59.300 looking for
00:44:59.820 the tweet
00:45:00.900 for a few,
00:45:02.260 maybe a
00:45:02.860 minute.
00:45:03.700 And so I
00:45:04.400 cut that
00:45:05.160 out and
00:45:07.160 uploaded it
00:45:07.980 to my
00:45:09.100 YouTube
00:45:09.360 channel.
00:45:09.740 I had been
00:45:11.660 uploading everything
00:45:12.280 in the past.
00:45:13.340 Right,
00:45:13.720 so this
00:45:14.040 was just
00:45:14.460 standard
00:45:15.080 practice on
00:45:15.800 your YouTube.
00:45:16.080 You have to
00:45:16.440 be very
00:45:16.760 careful about
00:45:17.320 what you
00:45:17.640 upload to
00:45:18.140 YouTube,
00:45:18.740 as I
00:45:19.180 found out
00:45:19.600 in 2016.
00:45:21.300 Right,
00:45:21.840 because it's
00:45:22.540 an unbelievably
00:45:23.100 powerful technology
00:45:24.340 and you never
00:45:24.940 know what's
00:45:25.380 going to
00:45:25.740 happen.
00:45:26.740 So,
00:45:27.460 as you
00:45:27.940 also found
00:45:29.080 out.
00:45:29.740 And so,
00:45:30.420 okay,
00:45:30.800 so you
00:45:31.180 uploaded this
00:45:32.180 and I
00:45:33.040 presume you
00:45:33.620 thought nothing
00:45:34.200 of it.
00:45:35.120 Okay,
00:45:35.460 what happened?
00:45:36.940 Lay out the
00:45:37.720 story.
00:45:38.020 It started
00:45:38.600 getting a
00:45:39.080 few views
00:45:39.640 and then
00:45:40.980 it got
00:45:42.260 13,000
00:45:44.500 views.
00:45:44.920 The music
00:45:45.280 teacher I
00:45:46.480 was telling
00:45:46.740 you about
00:45:47.160 who had
00:45:49.180 been on
00:45:50.180 this journey
00:45:50.700 with me in
00:45:51.180 a way,
00:45:51.700 we were
00:45:51.980 exploring this
00:45:52.620 technology,
00:45:53.660 even making
00:45:54.600 videos where
00:45:55.120 there was no
00:45:56.040 students on
00:45:56.640 our free
00:45:56.980 time,
00:45:57.240 like the
00:45:57.440 Fibonacci
00:45:57.840 sequence in
00:45:58.360 music was
00:45:58.900 just two
00:46:00.080 of us.
00:46:00.820 Uh-huh.
00:46:02.220 He texts
00:46:03.200 me, he says
00:46:03.660 he's got 13,000
00:46:04.540 views.
00:46:04.940 Oh, for me,
00:46:05.560 that's whoa.
00:46:06.200 And over
00:46:06.520 what period of
00:46:07.200 time?
00:46:07.480 Maybe, uh,
00:46:08.560 this is probably
00:46:09.000 like a week,
00:46:10.100 two weeks.
00:46:11.440 Okay, right.
00:46:12.300 That afternoon,
00:46:15.020 I get a text
00:46:15.640 from my brother
00:46:16.340 and he says
00:46:17.700 Elon Musk
00:46:18.560 tweeted a
00:46:19.100 video of
00:46:20.020 you.
00:46:20.540 Oh, yeah.
00:46:21.300 I thought
00:46:21.900 there's the
00:46:22.320 kiss of death.
00:46:23.100 Ha, ha, ha.
00:46:25.080 Right.
00:46:27.380 And I
00:46:28.320 didn't, I
00:46:28.800 hadn't opened
00:46:29.680 my Twitter
00:46:30.160 account since
00:46:30.920 that Neshoba 1.00
00:46:31.600 school, so I
00:46:32.600 couldn't log in.
00:46:33.360 I didn't have
00:46:33.700 my password and
00:46:34.560 figure it out
00:46:35.680 and I was
00:46:35.900 like, let me,
00:46:36.520 any, oh,
00:46:38.480 whoa, okay.
00:46:41.240 I don't know.
00:46:42.240 That was, then
00:46:43.500 two days later,
00:46:44.700 well, then I go
00:46:45.180 to school the
00:46:45.680 next day.
00:46:48.140 When we think
00:46:49.020 about wildly
00:46:49.680 successful businesses,
00:46:50.980 we often focus on
00:46:51.980 their great products,
00:46:53.100 cool branding,
00:46:53.640 and brilliant
00:46:54.400 marketing.
00:46:55.160 But there's an
00:46:55.880 unsung hero in
00:46:56.920 their success stories,
00:46:57.960 the business behind
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00:47:58.760 Don't say a
00:47:59.560 word.
00:47:59.800 I'm like, I'm
00:48:00.320 just gonna not
00:48:00.760 say anything.
00:48:01.940 Maybe no one
00:48:02.560 saw it.
00:48:03.180 I don't really
00:48:04.020 comprehend what's
00:48:04.980 going on with
00:48:05.520 there.
00:48:07.280 When you're in
00:48:08.060 it, it
00:48:08.440 doesn't.
00:48:09.960 The principal
00:48:10.620 calls me in
00:48:11.220 his office.
00:48:13.560 He's like, yeah,
00:48:15.660 not talking about
00:48:16.860 it is not gonna
00:48:17.960 work.
00:48:18.580 Like, everybody's
00:48:19.520 seen the video.
00:48:21.840 He was on the
00:48:24.360 fence of how to
00:48:25.160 feel about it.
00:48:26.680 Yeah.
00:48:26.920 Because he was
00:48:27.180 obviously worried,
00:48:28.200 as anyone would
00:48:28.820 be about his
00:48:30.380 responsibilities and
00:48:31.660 getting in trouble
00:48:32.240 with the higher
00:48:33.320 ups.
00:48:34.000 Is this against
00:48:35.100 the policy?
00:48:35.820 We have releases.
00:48:37.460 I have the
00:48:38.020 releases where
00:48:38.660 there's no student
00:48:39.560 on camera.
00:48:40.560 We have an audio
00:48:41.660 release.
00:48:43.280 It's...
00:48:43.760 And you'd be
00:48:44.840 doing this anyway.
00:48:45.920 I've been doing
00:48:46.400 this for a while.
00:48:47.600 But this is
00:48:49.780 different.
00:48:51.400 And I think it's
00:48:52.800 totally understandable
00:48:53.500 to be a little
00:48:54.900 shocked.
00:48:56.960 We're in new
00:48:57.820 territory here.
00:48:58.680 Yeah, right.
00:49:00.320 Pierce Morgan's
00:49:01.400 team reaches out.
00:49:02.900 Would you like to
00:49:03.540 come on Pierce
00:49:04.200 Morgan tomorrow?
00:49:06.660 Uh-huh.
00:49:07.820 Well, I'm at a
00:49:10.020 crossroads.
00:49:10.720 It's like, do I
00:49:12.740 run with this as
00:49:13.900 far as...
00:49:14.280 There's two options.
00:49:16.060 Let it pass over.
00:49:17.620 Go back to my
00:49:18.240 life.
00:49:18.760 Or I recognize...
00:49:19.240 Maybe.
00:49:19.980 Maybe go back to
00:49:21.020 your life.
00:49:21.440 Or I recognize
00:49:23.580 that this is a
00:49:24.700 once-in-a-lifetime.
00:49:26.220 Potentially.
00:49:27.380 I don't know what
00:49:28.200 it means, where it
00:49:29.120 could go.
00:49:29.960 If it's...
00:49:30.480 But it could be an
00:49:31.460 opportunity.
00:49:32.020 There's only one way
00:49:32.700 to find out, and
00:49:33.300 that's to run with
00:49:33.880 it.
00:49:34.960 Well, if I say...
00:49:36.020 I know this much
00:49:36.760 from my life and
00:49:37.480 regret.
00:49:38.060 If I say no to
00:49:39.280 this going on
00:49:40.300 Pierce Morgan, which
00:49:40.900 could go badly,
00:49:42.360 I might regret this
00:49:43.000 thing, but I know
00:49:44.180 I will regret it
00:49:45.340 forever.
00:49:46.160 How did you know
00:49:46.880 that?
00:49:47.380 Why did you
00:49:47.860 conclude that?
00:49:48.680 Because I have
00:49:49.080 regretted things in
00:49:49.900 my life before.
00:49:51.440 I know that
00:49:52.540 regret...
00:49:53.580 It's worse to
00:49:55.100 try something and
00:49:56.520 to fail in the
00:49:57.180 pursuit of that.
00:49:57.800 I would rather try
00:49:58.700 and run with this
00:49:59.480 ball as far as I
00:50:00.440 can, take it as
00:50:01.180 far as I can
00:50:01.980 until I get
00:50:02.560 tackled, than
00:50:04.340 to refuse to
00:50:06.260 pick it up.
00:50:07.920 Yeah, well, you
00:50:08.740 know, there is
00:50:09.740 clinical evidence
00:50:11.020 for that.
00:50:11.920 If you ask
00:50:12.840 people, older
00:50:14.560 people, to look
00:50:16.220 back on their
00:50:16.720 life and to
00:50:18.360 list their
00:50:18.840 regrets, it's
00:50:21.300 much more
00:50:21.800 common for
00:50:22.400 them to have
00:50:23.100 serious regrets
00:50:23.860 about chances
00:50:25.000 they didn't
00:50:25.540 take than
00:50:26.880 failures that
00:50:28.120 they experienced.
00:50:32.000 The thing
00:50:32.300 about failure is
00:50:33.740 a weird thing,
00:50:34.560 you know, because
00:50:35.120 my experience in
00:50:36.900 life has been
00:50:37.640 that nothing I
00:50:38.620 ever actually did
00:50:39.800 failed.
00:50:41.760 I didn't
00:50:42.600 necessarily...
00:50:43.440 It didn't
00:50:43.920 necessarily produce
00:50:44.980 the result that I
00:50:46.200 intended when I
00:50:48.000 intended it.
00:50:48.900 But if it was a
00:50:50.200 genuine effort
00:50:51.160 and I
00:50:52.960 followed through
00:50:54.120 on it, there
00:50:55.000 was some benefit
00:50:56.020 that emerged in
00:50:56.960 consequence of
00:50:57.720 that that
00:50:58.360 justified the
00:51:00.020 effort.
00:51:00.540 And sometimes
00:51:01.100 that was quite a
00:51:02.220 long time later.
00:51:03.680 And I think
00:51:04.320 that kind of
00:51:05.320 stands to reason
00:51:06.080 in a sense,
00:51:06.760 too, because
00:51:07.180 the alternative
00:51:08.840 explanation would
00:51:09.900 be that you
00:51:10.520 could try to do
00:51:12.860 something difficult
00:51:13.660 well and see it
00:51:15.060 through and there'd
00:51:16.460 be zero impact
00:51:17.500 of that.
00:51:18.400 Well, that
00:51:19.520 makes no sense.
00:51:20.840 You're going to
00:51:21.200 learn something.
00:51:22.800 Maybe what you
00:51:24.680 learn is how
00:51:25.360 you could have
00:51:25.860 done it better
00:51:26.460 or how you
00:51:26.940 could do it
00:51:27.500 better, but
00:51:28.200 you're going to
00:51:28.460 learn something.
00:51:29.560 Okay, so
00:51:29.960 what kind of
00:51:31.800 regrets had you
00:51:32.680 had in the
00:51:33.220 past?
00:51:33.860 If you don't
00:51:34.380 mind, maybe you
00:51:35.260 can share some
00:51:35.900 of those, maybe
00:51:36.440 not, but what
00:51:37.260 came to mind?
00:51:39.520 My original
00:51:42.000 plan was movies.
00:51:44.220 All I wanted to
00:51:45.040 do growing up
00:51:45.640 was make
00:51:46.520 movies.
00:51:46.960 There was
00:51:47.080 nothing more
00:51:47.540 exciting than
00:51:48.420 seeing people
00:51:49.120 be able to
00:51:49.980 alter time and
00:51:51.520 space.
00:51:51.920 It's like they
00:51:52.280 were using the
00:51:52.940 fabric of reality
00:51:53.760 to create worlds
00:51:54.700 which are real
00:51:56.780 when you're
00:51:57.200 watching it.
00:51:58.100 You've explored
00:51:58.840 this idea.
00:52:00.040 And the
00:52:00.940 logical course of
00:52:03.100 action, what
00:52:03.580 else would I
00:52:04.000 possibly want to
00:52:05.080 do than that?
00:52:07.080 There was nothing
00:52:07.500 more exciting.
00:52:08.740 And I was
00:52:09.180 undergrad, one of
00:52:10.140 the top film
00:52:11.180 schools in the
00:52:11.860 country, UNC
00:52:12.420 School of the
00:52:12.940 Arts, and I
00:52:14.120 excelled and I
00:52:14.860 was nailing
00:52:16.720 these opportunities
00:52:17.580 and it kind of
00:52:19.180 got to my
00:52:19.680 head.
00:52:20.820 I found
00:52:22.480 short film
00:52:23.480 after short
00:52:24.060 film, suddenly
00:52:24.820 it's in a
00:52:26.680 pattern that
00:52:27.260 had not
00:52:27.700 going to
00:52:30.000 LA, like
00:52:30.540 writing and
00:52:31.700 producing a
00:52:32.260 feature film
00:52:32.940 right out of
00:52:33.620 the gate, using
00:52:34.220 that momentum
00:52:34.820 with this team
00:52:36.620 of the students
00:52:37.920 that have come
00:52:38.480 together and
00:52:39.080 become this
00:52:39.520 pirate band
00:52:41.180 almost.
00:52:41.740 we raised
00:52:44.060 $25,000 to
00:52:45.480 make this
00:52:45.860 feature film
00:52:46.540 and we're
00:52:46.900 going to
00:52:47.340 camp out and
00:52:48.000 everyone's
00:52:48.360 going to
00:52:48.540 work for
00:52:48.900 free and
00:52:49.480 film it on
00:52:50.280 the farm
00:52:50.700 where I
00:52:50.960 grew up so
00:52:51.500 we can get
00:52:51.800 all the
00:52:52.020 locations for
00:52:52.720 free and it
00:52:53.200 would cost at
00:52:53.780 least a half a
00:52:54.920 million dollars
00:52:55.480 in production
00:52:55.960 value if you
00:52:56.560 were to do a
00:52:57.000 one-on-one
00:52:57.340 comparison because
00:52:58.380 everyone was
00:52:58.800 working for
00:52:59.280 free.
00:52:59.540 I feel like
00:53:03.800 I blew it
00:53:04.440 a lot.
00:53:04.980 I feel like I
00:53:05.400 blew a lot of
00:53:06.120 opportunities and
00:53:07.780 I'm trying to
00:53:08.100 think of any
00:53:08.340 specifics but in
00:53:09.180 general I did
00:53:11.560 come to the
00:53:11.960 realization that
00:53:12.660 LA is not
00:53:13.280 somewhere, LA
00:53:14.940 is not where I
00:53:15.500 want to live,
00:53:16.580 Hollywood is not
00:53:17.300 a game in which
00:53:17.900 I want to
00:53:18.340 participate for
00:53:19.760 the long term
00:53:20.560 so I knew I
00:53:22.600 wanted to get
00:53:23.940 out of that, I
00:53:24.920 didn't know what
00:53:25.380 I would do, I
00:53:26.940 went freelance
00:53:27.540 videography and
00:53:28.980 eventually graduate
00:53:29.700 school as it
00:53:30.280 took me to
00:53:30.600 graduate school
00:53:31.200 and I left
00:53:31.920 LA but those
00:53:34.420 students, the
00:53:36.260 colleagues, the
00:53:37.400 friends, making
00:53:40.160 a movie is
00:53:41.160 challenging, there's
00:53:42.980 a lot of, it
00:53:44.940 presses relationships
00:53:46.200 and this is a
00:53:47.620 deeper idea of
00:53:49.420 why that is
00:53:50.020 because often I
00:53:50.560 think there's some
00:53:51.020 people who are
00:53:51.340 subconsciously just
00:53:52.120 want it to be
00:53:52.600 over because when
00:53:53.400 you're making a
00:53:53.860 movie it takes
00:53:54.220 like a year and
00:53:55.380 then you have the
00:53:55.820 editor and he's
00:53:57.160 editing for, you
00:53:57.980 know, that's the
00:53:58.960 part that takes a
00:53:59.720 year, the
00:54:00.160 production itself a
00:54:01.100 month or two or
00:54:02.100 whatnot but then
00:54:02.920 it's just like this
00:54:03.800 has to be over and
00:54:04.840 there's so much
00:54:05.300 pressure and then
00:54:06.060 that causes people
00:54:06.780 to kind of dissolve
00:54:07.520 under the pressure
00:54:08.180 and it's like this
00:54:09.140 is a once-in-a-lifetime
00:54:10.140 opportunity, we're
00:54:10.820 never going to have
00:54:11.220 all these people
00:54:11.700 come together and
00:54:12.760 work for free.
00:54:14.160 Okay, so you saw
00:54:14.940 the same thing
00:54:15.880 beckoning there with
00:54:18.100 the Pierce Morgan
00:54:19.080 opportunity, obviously
00:54:20.380 that you, and it
00:54:21.820 is the case, I
00:54:22.520 mean, and this is
00:54:23.500 the case in life, is
00:54:24.440 that not now and
00:54:26.700 then something, many
00:54:28.940 impossible things come
00:54:30.240 together and a door
00:54:31.080 opens and if you
00:54:34.420 don't walk through it
00:54:35.180 then the probability
00:54:37.100 that those impossible
00:54:38.040 things will come
00:54:38.980 together again is zero
00:54:40.340 and so, okay, so you
00:54:42.380 decided to go on Pierce
00:54:43.380 Morgan, so what
00:54:44.160 happened?
00:54:45.300 It was just me for a
00:54:46.780 15-minute interview.
00:54:48.480 Okay.
00:54:48.880 At the end of a
00:54:49.280 segment.
00:54:49.820 Yeah.
00:54:50.040 So I'm in
00:54:52.260 Massachusetts in this
00:54:53.320 little town in the
00:54:54.100 woods.
00:54:55.400 I didn't know what
00:54:56.160 to expect.
00:54:56.760 I was like, is a
00:54:57.160 crew coming?
00:54:57.980 Like, what's going
00:54:58.440 on?
00:54:58.900 A guy in a van pulls
00:55:00.220 up to my house.
00:55:00.440 Oh, yeah, you had
00:55:01.120 to talk directly to
00:55:01.860 the camera, did you?
00:55:03.000 He's like, here, I'm
00:55:04.020 going to mic you up.
00:55:05.220 I don't know what's
00:55:06.200 going on.
00:55:06.700 No instructions.
00:55:07.740 He's like, I jump in
00:55:10.140 the back of a van right
00:55:11.540 after school.
00:55:12.220 So I'm at school
00:55:12.860 talking to the music
00:55:13.680 teacher.
00:55:14.060 I'm like, dude, they
00:55:15.260 want me to go on
00:55:15.680 Pierce Morgan.
00:55:16.200 I'm like, do you
00:55:17.460 think I'll get in
00:55:17.880 trouble if I do this?
00:55:19.260 And he's like,
00:55:20.040 you got to do it.
00:55:21.000 I got to do it.
00:55:22.020 Right, right.
00:55:22.680 And I said the same
00:55:23.360 thing I said to you.
00:55:24.800 And he said, just
00:55:25.480 don't.
00:55:26.060 It's better to ask for
00:55:27.020 forgiveness than for
00:55:28.140 permission.
00:55:28.680 Because I knew that if
00:55:29.760 I were to ask for
00:55:30.600 permission and they
00:55:31.500 were to say no, I'd
00:55:32.720 be in a predicament
00:55:33.400 now.
00:55:34.100 Right.
00:55:34.580 I'm not going to turn
00:55:35.600 that down because I
00:55:36.180 know what that feeling
00:55:36.940 would be.
00:55:38.020 Well, it's also not
00:55:39.080 the least bit obvious
00:55:40.100 that you're required
00:55:41.220 to ask for permission.
00:55:43.260 Besides that, this is
00:55:45.220 something that
00:55:45.700 everybody who's
00:55:46.320 watching and listening
00:55:47.140 should understand.
00:55:48.040 the answer to
00:55:50.600 if you go to
00:55:52.540 an authority,
00:55:53.520 especially a
00:55:54.080 bureaucratic authority,
00:55:54.960 and you ask for
00:55:56.740 permission, why
00:55:58.600 wouldn't they say
00:55:59.460 no?
00:56:00.600 All there is in it
00:56:01.700 for them is risk
00:56:02.700 and perhaps jealousy
00:56:04.960 and fear.
00:56:07.920 So why would,
00:56:09.440 of course, they're
00:56:10.080 going to say no.
00:56:11.520 Why wouldn't they
00:56:12.420 say no?
00:56:13.400 And so then you
00:56:14.120 think, well, how do
00:56:14.620 you deal with that?
00:56:15.220 The answer is, well,
00:56:16.680 you're a free agent.
00:56:18.440 What's the indication
00:56:20.980 that you're required
00:56:21.780 to ask for permission?
00:56:23.620 No, in fact, if it's
00:56:24.500 not illegal or if
00:56:26.400 you're not violating
00:56:27.120 your, you know, an
00:56:28.020 explicit, and really,
00:56:29.480 I mean explicit
00:56:30.300 contract, it's like,
00:56:32.480 don't ask.
00:56:34.020 It's hard enough to
00:56:34.840 convince yourself that
00:56:35.700 you should do it, much
00:56:36.420 less convince someone
00:56:37.340 else who's also not
00:56:38.260 going to benefit from
00:56:39.260 it in the least.
00:56:40.860 You know, the other
00:56:41.420 thing to understand,
00:56:42.220 too, is that
00:56:42.960 entrepreneurial
00:56:44.400 motivation is
00:56:45.680 relatively rare.
00:56:46.980 It's only about one
00:56:47.920 person in 50 who
00:56:49.080 wants to start their
00:56:49.920 own business.
00:56:51.200 I really learned this
00:56:52.980 when I started selling
00:56:54.280 to corporations and
00:56:55.580 dealing with middle 0.97
00:56:56.640 management people.
00:56:58.520 The fundamental
00:56:59.560 motivation of 95%
00:57:03.200 of people in middle
00:57:04.320 management is never
00:57:05.800 to do anything that
00:57:06.920 makes them get
00:57:07.760 noticed for any
00:57:08.940 reason, good or
00:57:10.340 bad.
00:57:10.820 they want to do
00:57:12.120 their job, they
00:57:12.980 want to do it in
00:57:13.660 complete and utter
00:57:15.220 invisibility.
00:57:16.840 And if an
00:57:17.200 entrepreneurial opportunity
00:57:18.840 comes along, they
00:57:20.200 say, that's risky,
00:57:22.220 no.
00:57:23.220 And you might say,
00:57:24.020 yeah, well, you know,
00:57:25.100 there's an immense
00:57:26.280 potential payoff.
00:57:28.780 Rather low probability,
00:57:30.960 immense potential
00:57:31.760 payoff.
00:57:32.260 That's the
00:57:32.660 entrepreneurial game.
00:57:33.560 And their attitude
00:57:34.480 is, I don't want
00:57:37.480 to be this marked
00:57:38.880 zebra that the
00:57:39.980 lions cut out of
00:57:40.820 the herd.
00:57:41.640 You know that story?
00:57:43.280 So, you know the
00:57:45.220 zebra story, I'll just
00:57:46.180 tell it for people who
00:57:47.060 might not have heard
00:57:47.740 it.
00:57:48.360 So, zebras in 1.00
00:57:50.180 principle are
00:57:50.740 camouflaged, but it's
00:57:52.040 kind of a weird idea
00:57:53.280 because they live on
00:57:54.660 the veld and they're
00:57:55.720 black and white
00:57:56.340 striped and you can
00:57:57.200 seriously see a
00:57:58.040 zebra.
00:57:58.720 So, the question is,
00:57:59.780 what's the
00:58:00.260 camouflage?
00:58:01.280 And the answer
00:58:01.900 seems to be that
00:58:02.820 it's against the
00:58:03.700 herd camouflage because
00:58:04.740 there's no single
00:58:05.800 zebras.
00:58:06.420 There's herds of
00:58:07.060 zebras.
00:58:07.520 And so, when the
00:58:08.740 zebras are milling 1.00
00:58:09.660 about together in a
00:58:10.640 herd, because the
00:58:12.080 black and white
00:58:12.720 stripes are edges, if
00:58:14.640 you look away and
00:58:15.420 then you look again,
00:58:16.600 you can't tell what
00:58:17.360 zebra you were 0.99
00:58:17.940 looking at.
00:58:18.800 Now, the reason
00:58:19.720 that's relevant is
00:58:20.620 because lions can't
00:58:22.100 organize themselves to
00:58:23.340 hunt a zebra unless
00:58:24.480 they can identify
00:58:25.560 one.
00:58:26.680 Okay, so you don't
00:58:27.540 want to be an
00:58:27.980 identifiable zebra.
00:58:29.340 So, biologists
00:58:30.080 discovered this
00:58:31.000 because they were
00:58:32.260 studying zebras and
00:58:33.940 trying to figure out
00:58:34.940 how to watch a given
00:58:36.020 zebra so they could
00:58:36.940 figure out what it
00:58:37.540 was up to, but they
00:58:38.580 lose track.
00:58:39.480 So, they would
00:58:40.600 either clip their
00:58:41.340 ears with a plastic
00:58:42.500 clip or put a dab of
00:58:43.840 paint on their
00:58:44.440 haunches.
00:58:44.980 And as soon as they
00:58:45.860 did that, the lions
00:58:46.640 killed them.
00:58:48.440 The lions could mark
00:58:49.420 out the zebra and
00:58:50.240 organize their hunt and
00:58:51.200 then that was a dead
00:58:52.040 zebra.
00:58:52.580 And, you know, you
00:58:53.180 hear that in the
00:58:54.320 natural world that
00:58:55.220 lions often cull the
00:58:56.780 herd and they take the
00:58:57.700 weak and the unfit.
00:58:59.320 It's like, no, they 0.84
00:59:00.120 take the identifiable
00:59:01.440 zebra.
00:59:02.360 And the instinct of
00:59:04.620 many, many people is
00:59:06.620 do not be the
00:59:07.740 identifiable prey animal.
00:59:09.860 Right.
00:59:10.440 And so, if you're going
00:59:11.020 to ask for permission,
00:59:12.700 even permission from
00:59:13.840 yourself in an odd way,
00:59:15.460 the default answer is
00:59:16.780 clearly no.
00:59:18.480 And so, and obviously
00:59:20.340 so.
00:59:21.220 And so, you're going to
00:59:22.220 have to step outside the
00:59:23.320 herd.
00:59:23.720 Now, the question with
00:59:24.920 human beings is, is
00:59:25.980 there advantages in
00:59:26.960 stepping outside the
00:59:27.880 herd and the
00:59:29.000 advantage is, well,
00:59:31.060 you get noticed.
00:59:32.720 And that's not so
00:59:33.880 good if there are
00:59:34.460 predators around, but
00:59:35.500 it's also the pathway
00:59:37.560 to extreme success,
00:59:39.760 which has massive
00:59:41.400 potential payoffs.
00:59:43.020 Now, I'm not saying
00:59:43.760 that everybody should
00:59:44.540 pursue that or that
00:59:45.360 everybody should want
00:59:46.240 it, but that's the
00:59:47.760 landscape of risk.
00:59:49.540 So, you decided you'd
00:59:51.000 already learned enough
00:59:52.780 in your life to know
00:59:53.720 that you don't
00:59:55.040 casually throw away
00:59:56.200 spectacular opportunities.
00:59:58.040 Yeah, right.
00:59:58.560 The pain of regret.
00:59:59.800 Yeah.
01:00:00.120 A unique form of pain.
01:00:02.260 Yes.
01:00:02.840 Yeah, well, it's a kind
01:00:03.880 of self-betrayal, right?
01:00:05.840 Because you had the
01:00:06.520 chance.
01:00:07.160 You had the opportunity.
01:00:07.780 Yes, that's what it was.
01:00:08.820 The door opened.
01:00:09.240 That's what I was trying
01:00:09.940 to put my finger on
01:00:11.800 earlier, and I had no
01:00:13.720 one to blame but myself
01:00:14.800 on how, like, that
01:00:15.360 would be turned out.
01:00:15.480 That's seriously annoying.
01:00:17.100 And that's what eats
01:00:18.040 you.
01:00:18.520 Yeah, right.
01:00:19.200 Definitely.
01:00:19.920 Definitely.
01:00:20.340 Well, it's bad enough
01:00:23.140 when someone else gets
01:00:24.180 in your way, but when
01:00:25.700 you get in your way,
01:00:26.800 it's like, well, how
01:00:28.320 do you?
01:00:28.680 Far worse.
01:00:29.760 Definitely.
01:00:30.500 Definitely.
01:00:31.720 You know, it's also
01:00:32.380 useful to know, too,
01:00:33.480 that I think this is
01:00:35.260 extremely useful, is
01:00:36.400 that you have to
01:00:37.620 deeply understand that
01:00:38.720 no risk is, first of
01:00:40.000 all, not desirable.
01:00:40.860 You actually don't want
01:00:41.660 a risk-free life.
01:00:42.780 You want the risks
01:00:44.640 you voluntarily take,
01:00:46.280 and maybe you want
01:00:47.000 high-stakes risks
01:00:48.680 you voluntarily take.
01:00:49.680 But even more
01:00:51.200 fundamentally, there is
01:00:52.760 no risk pathway.
01:00:55.520 You're screwed no
01:00:56.440 matter what you do.
01:00:57.620 And that's terrible,
01:00:58.760 but it's also freeing.
01:01:00.740 And so once you know
01:01:01.700 that there's no safety,
01:01:03.880 well, then you can take
01:01:04.720 the most interesting
01:01:05.520 risk, and why not?
01:01:07.640 And then maybe you
01:01:08.300 don't need safety.
01:01:09.420 Okay, so you decided to
01:01:10.520 go on Pierce Morgan.
01:01:11.140 That ties directly into
01:01:12.260 what happened on
01:01:13.040 Pierce Morgan.
01:01:13.980 Yes.
01:01:14.620 Okay.
01:01:15.080 So 15 minutes, and he
01:01:16.260 asked the usual
01:01:17.000 questions you would
01:01:17.700 expect around...
01:01:18.340 How was he with you?
01:01:19.220 He was really nice.
01:01:20.960 He was very charismatic,
01:01:25.420 likable kind, and very...
01:01:27.140 Well, he's a funny guy.
01:01:28.500 He is.
01:01:29.020 He's kind of like
01:01:29.900 Simon Cowell, in a way.
01:01:32.940 You know, you can see
01:01:34.420 in America's Got...
01:01:35.380 I mean, they both worked
01:01:36.240 on America's Got Talent
01:01:37.240 and Britain's Got Talent.
01:01:38.320 You can see if Cowell
01:01:39.640 likes somebody, he's
01:01:40.520 really on their side.
01:01:41.380 If he doesn't like them,
01:01:42.160 he's really not on their
01:01:43.200 side, and Morgan is like
01:01:44.620 that, and he's also
01:01:45.420 the sort of guy who...
01:01:46.940 He'll give you the
01:01:47.620 benefit of the doubt,
01:01:48.520 but if you start
01:01:49.580 playing games, then
01:01:50.780 you're in serious
01:01:51.480 trouble.
01:01:52.180 And so he obviously
01:01:53.040 started by giving you
01:01:54.280 the benefit of the doubt.
01:01:55.260 He was probably, you
01:01:56.240 know, reasonably pleased
01:01:57.280 with the video that he
01:01:58.240 had seen and thought,
01:01:59.260 you know, that he would
01:02:00.040 be inviting to begin
01:02:02.280 with.
01:02:02.620 So that worked out well.
01:02:03.680 Okay, so...
01:02:04.440 And he asked the
01:02:04.900 question...
01:02:05.360 The last question was
01:02:06.300 interesting.
01:02:06.760 It's the one that
01:02:07.140 stands out in my mind.
01:02:08.260 And he goes,
01:02:08.640 in all your hair...
01:02:09.280 Because he watched the
01:02:10.100 video.
01:02:10.680 He was a producer.
01:02:11.600 Someone went to the
01:02:12.260 YouTube channel in the
01:02:13.300 research, and I was like,
01:02:14.160 give me something to...
01:02:15.520 They found the me
01:02:17.020 talking about archetypes
01:02:18.120 in Harry Potter.
01:02:19.260 Ah.
01:02:19.920 That I have from you.
01:02:20.740 Oh, yes.
01:02:21.280 I see.
01:02:21.740 I see.
01:02:22.080 And he goes, so...
01:02:23.260 And he thought I was
01:02:23.740 some Harry Potter scholar
01:02:24.680 or something.
01:02:25.300 He goes, so, given all
01:02:26.740 your Harry Potter studies,
01:02:28.540 what would the best piece
01:02:30.100 of life advice be?
01:02:31.700 And from all your Harry
01:02:32.820 Potter studies...
01:02:33.860 I said, voluntarily enter
01:02:36.840 the unknown.
01:02:37.700 Uh-huh.
01:02:38.580 Which is what you were
01:02:39.080 just talking about.
01:02:39.460 Uh-huh.
01:02:40.060 Uh-huh.
01:02:41.160 Like, it might be, you
01:02:43.900 know, the unknown beneath
01:02:45.400 the surface of Hogwarts.
01:02:46.860 Uh-huh.
01:02:47.200 It might be facing the
01:02:48.460 serpent that could turn
01:02:49.500 you to stone when you
01:02:50.860 see it.
01:02:51.340 Uh-huh.
01:02:52.000 Like, fear.
01:02:53.900 But you must do so
01:02:55.240 voluntarily in order to
01:02:56.400 save Ginny. 1.00
01:02:57.740 Uh-huh.
01:02:59.300 And it's the voluntary
01:03:01.820 aspect of that that is...
01:03:04.040 Which is just classic.
01:03:05.120 Everyone echoes that.
01:03:07.100 They're like, okay.
01:03:09.080 Yeah, well, it's a very
01:03:09.940 good thing to know.
01:03:10.720 But it's true.
01:03:11.600 Yeah, well, it's also
01:03:12.580 surprising because it
01:03:16.460 belies the, what would
01:03:19.600 you say, the merely
01:03:20.900 objective sense of the
01:03:22.300 real.
01:03:23.240 A situation is the same
01:03:24.780 no matter how you
01:03:25.640 encounter it.
01:03:26.540 That's an objectivist
01:03:28.160 perspective.
01:03:29.300 It's, no, a situation
01:03:31.280 is radically different
01:03:32.440 depending on how you
01:03:34.000 encounter it.
01:03:35.000 Kicking and screaming is
01:03:36.140 very different than
01:03:37.320 voluntarily.
01:03:39.080 Even if the stressor is
01:03:40.380 the same and there
01:03:42.040 doesn't seem to be any
01:03:43.380 particular limit to
01:03:45.380 that, which is why, of
01:03:46.700 course, all the heroic
01:03:48.080 quest archetypal
01:03:49.720 narratives are voluntary
01:03:51.800 confrontation with truly
01:03:53.800 terrible things.
01:03:54.820 Otherwise, the quest has no
01:03:55.980 real deep significance.
01:03:57.600 Okay, so the Pierce
01:03:58.440 Morgan interview, that
01:04:00.440 went well.
01:04:01.180 That was a success.
01:04:02.460 Yeah.
01:04:02.580 And what was the
01:04:03.100 consequence of that?
01:04:04.180 The next day, I go back
01:04:06.620 into school, they call me
01:04:07.380 back into the principal's
01:04:08.320 office and they say,
01:04:09.480 dude, you went on
01:04:10.580 Pierce Morgan?
01:04:11.780 Like, can you at least
01:04:12.980 check in with us before
01:04:14.360 you do Pierce Morgan?
01:04:15.640 Those are the exact words
01:04:16.640 that I was presenting.
01:04:17.100 Right, right.
01:04:17.800 Can you at least check with
01:04:19.020 us?
01:04:19.400 Yeah, but, you know,
01:04:20.240 what you just articulated
01:04:21.640 was masterful and that's
01:04:23.560 the best logical read that
01:04:25.060 you could provide on that
01:04:26.860 situation, I think.
01:04:27.760 All bureaucratic entities
01:04:30.420 will always say no to
01:04:31.740 anything that's
01:04:32.540 quest related.
01:04:33.580 Obviously.
01:04:34.560 There's no benefit to
01:04:35.000 them.
01:04:35.800 There's only risk, right?
01:04:37.720 There's only downside.
01:04:38.640 Of course, yeah, this is
01:04:40.740 partly why I think research
01:04:41.900 has been almost completely
01:04:43.200 stifled in universities.
01:04:44.660 You cannot do risk-free
01:04:46.280 research.
01:04:47.800 Period.
01:04:48.440 It's not possible.
01:04:49.500 You can't just do the next
01:04:50.800 safe thing.
01:04:52.000 It's too obvious, first of
01:04:53.840 all, and there's no
01:04:55.540 excitement in the discovery.
01:04:57.240 It has to be a risk and
01:04:58.900 the risk has to be real.
01:05:00.480 And, you know, we don't
01:05:01.420 want to be too cynical
01:05:02.180 about this either.
01:05:03.420 You know, it's not
01:05:04.940 obviously the role of
01:05:06.360 bureaucracies to take
01:05:07.440 risks, right?
01:05:08.980 It's the role of
01:05:09.940 bureaucracies to set
01:05:11.380 policies and strategies
01:05:13.780 and to abide by the
01:05:15.460 rules and move forward.
01:05:16.380 Well, you see that in
01:05:17.140 Harry Potter, too, because
01:05:18.220 there's a weird dynamic
01:05:19.240 constantly in the Harry
01:05:20.720 Potter stories that
01:05:21.460 Rowling is.
01:05:22.240 She was great at this
01:05:23.440 because Harry's band,
01:05:25.680 like they're academically
01:05:27.520 oriented and they're
01:05:28.520 upward striving, but
01:05:29.480 they're always rule
01:05:30.480 breakers, right?
01:05:31.640 And the the grand
01:05:33.100 wizard at the top of
01:05:34.300 the ladder, he put
01:05:37.480 all the rules that
01:05:38.380 govern the educational
01:05:39.560 institution in place and
01:05:41.100 knows what they are, but
01:05:42.400 is perfectly happy that
01:05:43.680 Harry and his, you
01:05:45.440 know, band of ethical
01:05:47.220 miscreants break rules.
01:05:49.140 Yeah.
01:05:49.320 And he knows about it
01:05:50.360 almost.
01:05:50.800 They insinuate that he
01:05:51.780 knows what they're doing
01:05:52.900 and lets it go
01:05:54.760 anyways.
01:05:55.700 Yeah.
01:05:55.960 Well, that's that
01:05:56.700 that's that constant
01:05:58.080 paradox.
01:05:59.840 It's really the paradox
01:06:00.900 of it's really the
01:06:02.720 paradox of something
01:06:03.600 like liberal versus
01:06:04.840 conservative.
01:06:05.940 You know, the
01:06:06.480 conservatives fundamentally
01:06:08.160 I hate to call the
01:06:09.820 conservatives the
01:06:10.500 bureaucrats because in
01:06:11.720 our weird political
01:06:12.500 world, things have all
01:06:13.460 got flipped around.
01:06:14.380 But generally speaking,
01:06:15.720 the conservative types
01:06:16.880 are much more rule
01:06:18.480 oriented and much less
01:06:19.960 entrepreneurial.
01:06:20.580 And so but there's
01:06:23.300 there's a there's a
01:06:24.340 dance between those
01:06:25.280 two that's absolutely
01:06:26.040 necessary.
01:06:26.520 And there's no getting
01:06:27.300 rid of the conflict
01:06:28.100 because most of the
01:06:30.000 time you should follow
01:06:30.780 the rules.
01:06:31.740 But some of the time
01:06:33.100 you definitely shouldn't.
01:06:34.840 And wisdom is the
01:06:35.800 ability to and daring
01:06:37.620 that's the ability to
01:06:38.540 tell the difference.
01:06:39.260 Well, so you went on
01:06:40.040 Piers Morgan.
01:06:40.760 And so I don't blame
01:06:43.480 your administrator for
01:06:45.140 either do objecting.
01:06:47.480 Although, you know,
01:06:48.840 what you would have
01:06:49.540 hoped for is something
01:06:50.760 like a little elbow
01:06:52.160 saying, you know,
01:06:53.240 you should have done
01:06:53.840 that.
01:06:54.020 Good work.
01:06:54.840 There was.
01:06:55.480 Oh, good.
01:06:56.060 There was that.
01:06:56.640 Well, the assistant
01:06:57.560 principal who ascended
01:06:58.600 and led that whole
01:06:59.920 coup and there was
01:07:01.960 something different
01:07:02.500 about his response.
01:07:03.280 But the principal,
01:07:04.060 the 30 year old
01:07:04.620 principal, who was
01:07:05.280 always very helpful
01:07:06.060 to me and like,
01:07:06.860 yeah, helping me to
01:07:08.900 get or, you know,
01:07:10.700 like, Warren, you
01:07:11.220 should get your
01:07:11.620 license in phonetics
01:07:13.420 and you can have this
01:07:14.620 new special ed license
01:07:15.680 my first year.
01:07:16.660 He was kind of this
01:07:17.440 human, a guiding
01:07:19.680 hand before he
01:07:20.700 suddenly had this
01:07:21.460 power.
01:07:22.400 And there was that
01:07:23.460 at the end.
01:07:24.060 And he was like,
01:07:24.580 I would have done
01:07:25.020 the same thing.
01:07:25.860 Oh, yeah.
01:07:26.260 Good.
01:07:26.580 Literally.
01:07:27.080 Good, good, good.
01:07:28.580 That's the nod
01:07:29.360 and the wink.
01:07:30.540 Yeah.
01:07:31.460 Yeah.
01:07:31.700 Every institution
01:07:32.600 that's going to
01:07:33.140 function needs that,
01:07:34.160 right?
01:07:34.320 Because you need
01:07:34.840 the people who
01:07:35.400 impose the rules
01:07:36.200 and the structure,
01:07:37.000 but they need to
01:07:38.100 always be able to
01:07:38.980 say, well, yeah,
01:07:40.380 that there is a
01:07:41.120 reason for not
01:07:41.760 following the
01:07:42.340 procedure in that
01:07:43.220 particular case.
01:07:44.280 And he said,
01:07:44.720 I got to, I
01:07:45.620 need to,
01:07:46.660 run this up the
01:07:47.360 flagpole.
01:07:48.120 I'm going to need
01:07:48.500 to call.
01:07:49.520 This is just getting,
01:07:50.940 I don't know how to
01:07:51.500 respond to this.
01:07:52.500 Pierce, Maury,
01:07:53.040 I don't know what
01:07:53.480 this, this isn't in
01:07:54.600 the playbook.
01:07:55.440 This isn't in the
01:07:55.840 name.
01:07:56.520 Right.
01:07:56.880 So, they arrange for
01:07:58.760 a meeting with the
01:07:59.740 executive director
01:08:00.460 and her team of
01:08:01.800 lawyers.
01:08:02.720 There's a board
01:08:03.520 that runs this
01:08:04.280 school.
01:08:05.380 She answers to
01:08:07.860 them, I guess.
01:08:08.920 She's never
01:08:09.440 president.
01:08:10.080 She used to kind 0.95
01:08:10.780 of have her office 0.99
01:08:11.500 over near mine,
01:08:12.520 but I hadn't seen
01:08:13.300 her at all this,
01:08:15.120 that past year.
01:08:16.080 She just said,
01:08:18.020 and so she,
01:08:18.860 there was a meeting
01:08:19.680 with her.
01:08:20.540 Yeah.
01:08:20.680 I went into a
01:08:22.040 room with that
01:08:23.180 principal, the one
01:08:24.940 who, and it was a
01:08:26.960 Zoom call.
01:08:28.600 I think, no, it's
01:08:29.600 just audio.
01:08:30.520 And her lawyers were
01:08:31.680 sitting next to her
01:08:32.500 and they just said,
01:08:33.720 well, technically you
01:08:35.120 didn't break any
01:08:35.700 rules, so you're,
01:08:37.960 congratulations.
01:08:39.280 Good luck to you.
01:08:40.240 I hope you don't make
01:08:40.920 a mistake.
01:08:41.740 Right, right.
01:08:42.340 I hate to lose
01:08:42.900 you, and I
01:08:44.460 thought, fair
01:08:45.380 enough, I'll take
01:08:46.520 responsibility for
01:08:47.720 anything I say and
01:08:48.780 do, and me and
01:08:50.700 that music teacher
01:08:51.340 were like,
01:08:52.700 home free, but
01:08:54.880 that's, it was,
01:08:56.560 it felt like that
01:08:58.280 should be the
01:08:59.140 response.
01:09:00.980 Yeah, well, that
01:09:01.600 was, that's a pretty
01:09:02.240 good response.
01:09:03.020 I mean, it's not
01:09:03.580 surprising that they
01:09:04.540 looked into it.
01:09:06.300 Yeah.
01:09:06.540 I mean, one of the
01:09:07.300 things, too, that's
01:09:08.060 worth thinking about,
01:09:08.980 too, is that when
01:09:10.960 you're called to
01:09:12.620 account for yourself
01:09:14.060 when you break a
01:09:15.200 rule, for example,
01:09:16.700 and you upset the
01:09:18.220 normal course of
01:09:19.400 the routine, it's
01:09:21.340 not such a bad
01:09:22.320 idea to present
01:09:23.900 the people who are
01:09:24.700 now cast into doubt
01:09:26.140 and confusion with
01:09:27.080 a plan.
01:09:28.780 So, for example, I
01:09:30.600 had the same
01:09:31.280 experience as you
01:09:32.460 did, essentially,
01:09:33.980 when I put up the
01:09:35.700 first videos that
01:09:37.200 brought me to public
01:09:38.520 attention surrounding
01:09:39.960 Bill C-16.
01:09:40.960 It was just, it was
01:09:42.560 really the same sort
01:09:43.420 of experiment that
01:09:44.340 you ran.
01:09:45.340 I'd been, I'd put up
01:09:46.380 a lot of my lectures
01:09:47.240 on YouTube, and
01:09:48.000 they'd got a moderate
01:09:49.880 amount of attention
01:09:50.840 and a reasonable
01:09:52.300 amount for the time
01:09:53.600 because I started
01:09:54.340 putting them, I
01:09:55.180 think, in 2013 on
01:09:56.680 YouTube, which was
01:09:57.900 very early in YouTube
01:09:58.960 development.
01:10:01.180 But they hadn't
01:10:02.260 attracted anything like
01:10:03.380 viral attention.
01:10:04.820 And then this idiot
01:10:06.400 virtue signaling bill was
01:10:07.840 put into law by our
01:10:09.380 idiot virtue signaling
01:10:10.520 prime minister.
01:10:11.200 And I made three
01:10:13.260 videos objecting to
01:10:14.700 that and some
01:10:15.440 university policies.
01:10:16.480 That was purely
01:10:17.320 experimental because I
01:10:19.020 was still playing with
01:10:19.800 the technology and
01:10:20.840 wondering what use it
01:10:22.100 was and seeing if I
01:10:23.780 could lay out a
01:10:24.580 structured argument as
01:10:25.660 well.
01:10:25.960 I edited it quite a bit,
01:10:27.220 actually, that one.
01:10:28.060 And that went viral.
01:10:31.080 And then I was called
01:10:32.000 into the principal's
01:10:34.800 office, so to speak, at
01:10:36.600 the university, which
01:10:37.440 kind of surprised me to
01:10:38.420 begin with, but not
01:10:39.660 exactly because they
01:10:41.600 didn't know what to do
01:10:42.800 with this.
01:10:43.500 And unsurprisingly, I
01:10:45.080 mean, whether the dean,
01:10:47.240 for example, had any
01:10:48.140 right to have to say
01:10:49.660 anything whatsoever with
01:10:51.420 what I was doing with
01:10:52.320 YouTube in my home, in
01:10:54.840 my free time, is a
01:10:55.980 completely different
01:10:56.580 issue.
01:10:57.100 But I suggested to
01:10:58.360 them that the
01:10:59.760 University of Toronto
01:11:00.700 could do the daring
01:11:03.520 thing and have a
01:11:04.600 debate on free speech.
01:11:06.780 And so that was a
01:11:07.580 concrete plan, right?
01:11:08.880 And they were looking
01:11:09.820 for something to do.
01:11:11.100 They didn't know what
01:11:11.700 to do.
01:11:12.220 And that is what they
01:11:13.440 did.
01:11:13.860 And for better, for
01:11:15.640 worse.
01:11:16.020 And that was much
01:11:17.260 better than many of the
01:11:18.340 things that they could
01:11:19.100 have done.
01:11:19.660 Now, it still worked out
01:11:21.320 that it became
01:11:22.640 impossible, really, for
01:11:23.800 me to keep my position
01:11:25.080 there, although I did
01:11:26.280 for about a year.
01:11:27.880 But it is also the
01:11:30.800 case to know that if
01:11:32.200 you're going to step
01:11:33.060 outside of the bounds of
01:11:34.660 normal propriety, it
01:11:36.560 doesn't hurt to have a
01:11:37.720 plan, especially for the
01:11:39.040 people that you confuse
01:11:40.080 because they also don't
01:11:42.160 know what to do and
01:11:43.140 they're going to hunker
01:11:45.480 down and they're going to
01:11:46.900 dissociate themselves from
01:11:48.320 you if you are deemed to
01:11:50.240 be a risk, especially a
01:11:51.920 contamination risk.
01:11:53.580 And so, and the topics
01:11:54.420 you were discussing,
01:11:55.400 especially on the
01:11:56.020 rolling side, would have
01:11:57.360 that element because,
01:11:58.600 of course, to the degree
01:12:00.440 that the propaganda
01:12:01.900 surrounding the idea of
01:12:03.420 transphobia is effective, 1.00
01:12:06.260 you can easily be tarred
01:12:07.400 and feathered and run 0.79
01:12:08.300 out of town on a rail.
01:12:09.680 But you weren't.
01:12:11.100 You weren't.
01:12:11.760 That didn't exactly
01:12:12.680 happen in the school.
01:12:13.980 So you said something
01:12:15.280 interesting about, and I
01:12:16.660 agree, that the
01:12:17.720 university, the dean,
01:12:18.840 has narrated in your own
01:12:20.060 home what you do with
01:12:20.900 YouTube.
01:12:21.220 How does that correlate
01:12:22.280 to the dean's business
01:12:23.720 or the university's
01:12:24.660 business?
01:12:25.480 What's interesting is that
01:12:26.720 when you go into the
01:12:27.560 handbook, which after all
01:12:29.100 this occurred, I went and
01:12:30.300 kind of looked, poked
01:12:31.340 into, it's written that
01:12:33.940 they have every involvement
01:12:35.480 at this school into
01:12:37.720 whatever a teacher says
01:12:40.780 politically on social
01:12:43.180 media, if they say, and
01:12:45.040 there's no clear objective
01:12:46.380 definition of what, where
01:12:48.560 that line is.
01:12:49.220 Of course, of course.
01:12:49.980 So they just reserve to
01:12:51.100 themselves the right.
01:12:52.160 Yeah, the College of
01:12:53.040 Psychologists has basically
01:12:54.320 done exactly the same
01:12:55.420 thing in Canada, the
01:12:57.820 people that I'm in trouble
01:12:58.840 for in relationship to my
01:13:00.260 license.
01:13:00.600 It's like, there are rules
01:13:02.400 apparently about the way I
01:13:04.300 can conduct myself, but the
01:13:05.560 only way you find out what
01:13:06.640 those rules are is by being
01:13:09.740 accused of breaking them.
01:13:11.520 It's not like they're
01:13:12.240 written down.
01:13:13.040 Because, of course, they
01:13:14.160 can't be, right?
01:13:15.660 And so that's also, that's
01:13:17.880 also a terrible thing
01:13:18.860 because, and this is
01:13:20.460 something that's happening
01:13:21.260 in our culture very
01:13:22.100 rapidly, and apparently is
01:13:23.680 something that de Tocqueville
01:13:24.840 prophesied back in the mid
01:13:28.580 1800s, that if totalitarianism
01:13:31.920 came to democracies, it would
01:13:35.020 come in the form of essentially
01:13:37.180 mid-level bureaucracies
01:13:40.340 invisibly making everything
01:13:42.580 daring illegal, right?
01:13:44.900 And so, and those open-ended
01:13:47.460 policies are precisely the
01:13:50.500 sort of thing that they're
01:13:51.400 like, they're like
01:13:52.860 comprehensive traps.
01:13:54.740 So they could have actually
01:13:55.800 gone after you.
01:13:56.620 Oh, yeah.
01:13:57.080 It was a unique contract to
01:13:58.760 begin with, and I remember
01:13:59.520 signing that when I first
01:14:01.020 agreed on to that school.
01:14:02.820 It said you could be fired for
01:14:04.160 any reason, no reason, at any
01:14:06.320 time.
01:14:06.700 Yeah.
01:14:06.920 And that's not a reality at
01:14:09.460 your average high school.
01:14:11.200 So that stood out to me.
01:14:12.400 I thought, interesting, okay.
01:14:14.420 Well, this is a new world.
01:14:15.560 This is an unusual world that
01:14:16.900 I don't, so.
01:14:18.100 Yeah, well, you could see
01:14:19.080 also, though, you could
01:14:20.140 actually understand, I would
01:14:21.520 say, the reasons for a
01:14:24.100 contract like that at a
01:14:25.480 school like that.
01:14:26.660 Sure.
01:14:27.000 Because so many possible
01:14:29.120 things could go wrong that
01:14:30.700 the rules arguably would have
01:14:33.260 to be more comprehensive to
01:14:35.700 cover any possible
01:14:37.300 occurrence.
01:14:39.500 Okay, so what happens after
01:14:42.240 Pierce Morgan?
01:14:43.260 Things were different.
01:14:45.120 No one ever spoke to me about
01:14:47.440 it, again, the video, or I
01:14:50.700 was continuing to make YouTube
01:14:51.820 videos is what I should point
01:14:53.420 out.
01:14:53.440 Okay, okay.
01:14:54.040 So you did continue to make and
01:14:55.680 post them.
01:14:56.540 Did they also attract more
01:14:57.900 attention after that?
01:14:58.780 Now that I had this viral, you
01:15:00.780 know, I'm still doing the
01:15:02.620 YouTube channel and it's, it's
01:15:04.080 grown.
01:15:04.680 It's not, so it wasn't like it
01:15:05.940 was now.
01:15:07.340 It's not huge, but it was
01:15:09.500 decent.
01:15:10.500 Yeah.
01:15:10.860 It was fun.
01:15:11.580 Most importantly, it was me and
01:15:12.660 the music teacher.
01:15:13.720 We were like, okay, we have
01:15:14.800 this opportunity.
01:15:15.800 He didn't want any part of it.
01:15:17.540 It was his personality type.
01:15:19.080 If you had offered him the
01:15:20.540 chance to swap places with me,
01:15:22.560 I really think he would have
01:15:24.060 declined it.
01:15:24.700 Ah, wow.
01:15:25.340 It's, it's just too much, too
01:15:27.380 much exposure.
01:15:28.340 There's a lot that comes with
01:15:28.520 that.
01:15:30.020 You're in the unknown and it's
01:15:31.540 on you when you're entering
01:15:32.680 this, anyway.
01:15:33.560 But we, we, every Friday after
01:15:35.640 school, we set up a little
01:15:37.160 studio in, downstairs in my
01:15:39.040 house and every Friday after
01:15:39.960 school, we would just sit down,
01:15:41.880 record something, talk about
01:15:43.440 whatever we wanted to talk
01:15:44.280 about for an hour and then
01:15:45.340 edit it in an hour and post it.
01:15:48.540 So that's the voice you hear
01:15:49.880 in those early, if you ever look
01:15:51.420 at those videos, that's the
01:15:53.020 voice you hear off camera.
01:15:54.540 And he didn't want to show
01:15:55.640 his face, which is
01:15:57.420 understandable.
01:15:59.660 And all those perspectives in
01:16:01.600 there are his genuine
01:16:02.900 perspectives and he's very
01:16:04.260 liberal.
01:16:04.800 So it was interesting.
01:16:05.480 It was interesting dynamic.
01:16:06.440 It was like this classic, it
01:16:09.020 was so stereotypical, people
01:16:10.420 thought it was fake.
01:16:11.780 They were like, this is a
01:16:12.500 clearly staged, which I take
01:16:13.840 as a compliment.
01:16:14.500 It's like, really, you think
01:16:15.180 the only way we could achieve
01:16:16.500 this outcome would be to
01:16:17.580 script it?
01:16:18.360 That means we're doing
01:16:19.380 something right.
01:16:19.960 So we were making these
01:16:22.380 and things just at the
01:16:25.440 school, I noticed I stopped
01:16:28.400 being invited to certain
01:16:29.900 things.
01:16:30.080 There was like a wedding.
01:16:30.940 I wasn't invited to that.
01:16:31.840 My whole Site One team was
01:16:33.480 and there was, everyone goes
01:16:35.540 out for drinks on Friday.
01:16:36.900 There's the bar nearby.
01:16:38.540 The hero, you know, heroes in
01:16:40.440 classic stories often become
01:16:42.240 contaminated by the unknown.
01:16:43.940 So even in the Lord of the
01:16:46.960 Rings stories, you know, the
01:16:48.100 fact that Frodo and Bilbo both
01:16:50.700 know Gandalf makes them somewhat
01:16:54.500 socially unpopular in the
01:16:56.320 Shire.
01:16:57.020 Right.
01:16:57.520 Even though they're associated,
01:16:59.080 well, they're associated with
01:17:00.200 magic power.
01:17:01.420 Yeah.
01:17:01.560 And you might think that's all
01:17:03.100 status.
01:17:03.720 It's like, it's not all status.
01:17:05.420 It makes the people who want to
01:17:08.420 operate only within the confines
01:17:10.380 of the Shire, let's say, very
01:17:12.480 nervous.
01:17:12.900 And rightly so, because that is
01:17:15.920 a disruptive force.
01:17:17.900 And so, even when Bilbo, yeah,
01:17:22.480 comes back from his initial
01:17:24.220 adventure, he's regarded with
01:17:26.660 suspicion for the rest of his
01:17:28.700 life.
01:17:29.060 Admiration, yes, but also
01:17:31.320 suspicion.
01:17:32.420 And from the more conservative
01:17:34.120 forces, you might say.
01:17:35.540 That's a good point.
01:17:36.280 Yeah.
01:17:36.500 Yeah, yeah.
01:17:37.400 Yeah, yeah.
01:17:37.960 Well.
01:17:38.740 That's how it felt.
01:17:39.680 Yeah.
01:17:40.300 Yeah.
01:17:40.560 Well, you can also understand
01:17:41.840 that biologically.
01:17:42.900 With the zebra analog, in a way,
01:17:45.980 it's like, you don't want to be
01:17:47.560 too close to the target of the
01:17:49.020 predators, you know?
01:17:50.300 And this is a deep biological
01:17:51.920 instinct, you know, that the
01:17:53.680 reason that fish exist in schools
01:17:55.920 and herbivores exist in herds is
01:17:58.200 because if you're with a bunch of
01:17:59.980 other animals of your type and a
01:18:02.860 predator attacks, the probability
01:18:05.040 that it will be you is proportionate to
01:18:08.700 how well you hide in the herd, obviously.
01:18:12.760 So, to the degree that you live life as
01:18:15.800 a prey animal, then you're going to
01:18:18.100 hide in the herd.
01:18:19.200 Now, the question you might ask
01:18:20.680 yourself is, do you want to live life
01:18:22.300 as a prey animal?
01:18:23.720 And human beings really have that
01:18:25.900 choice because we're very strange
01:18:28.760 creatures.
01:18:29.220 We're predators, but we're also prey
01:18:31.060 animals.
01:18:31.460 And you can take either of those
01:18:33.060 pathways forward.
01:18:34.760 And it was interesting because this
01:18:35.980 opportunity came along where I was
01:18:37.900 presented with the decision, do I
01:18:39.560 leave the herd?
01:18:40.700 Yeah.
01:18:40.880 Go into the unknown on this journey
01:18:42.680 and see where it takes me or do I go
01:18:44.940 back to the safety?
01:18:46.420 Okay.
01:18:46.720 So, you said now that there was some
01:18:48.380 social consequence afterwards, but
01:18:50.800 that things more or less went back to
01:18:52.880 normal.
01:18:53.420 What happened with the students?
01:18:55.360 And then, eventually, your job at the
01:18:58.020 school did disappear.
01:18:59.240 So, walk us through the aftermath of
01:19:02.620 this flurry of attention.
01:19:05.540 The students, I think that the staff
01:19:09.600 went to great lengths to insulate the
01:19:13.340 students.
01:19:13.700 That student that was the voice in the
01:19:16.060 video, he loved it.
01:19:18.220 He was aware of it.
01:19:19.680 And I, in that meeting with the
01:19:21.440 lawyers, I was like, look, so-and-so,
01:19:23.360 I'd be happy to talk to his, like, I
01:19:25.320 think he's going to be fine with it.
01:19:27.020 Like, no one expected this, but he's a
01:19:28.960 good kid.
01:19:29.600 They're like, no, we don't want you
01:19:31.260 anywhere near this.
01:19:32.060 Like, we'll talk to the parents and
01:19:33.720 the parents were fine with it.
01:19:34.720 He already had the releases.
01:19:35.820 It was...
01:19:36.500 Yeah, that's good.
01:19:37.600 So, you had dotted your I's and
01:19:39.080 crossed your T's with regards to
01:19:40.880 student involvement.
01:19:42.020 So, long story short, I, a few
01:19:44.540 months later, I had, well, I had
01:19:48.400 another conversation with that
01:19:49.700 student around communism.
01:19:51.920 We were continuously doing what we
01:19:54.000 had always been doing with the video
01:19:55.580 production.
01:19:56.380 But I was feeling more and more like,
01:19:59.180 I got to be careful.
01:19:59.980 And the music teacher was telling me,
01:20:02.960 he's like, look, man, I, you got it.
01:20:04.560 You've got a lot of eyes on you.
01:20:06.220 And it made logical sense that they
01:20:07.920 would, they were, that they were
01:20:10.060 looking for any slip up, anything
01:20:13.060 that I, I got the sense that they
01:20:15.440 wanted to get rid of, it would have
01:20:18.820 been easier to get rid of me when that
01:20:20.600 video came out.
01:20:21.600 But there was so much attention around
01:20:24.780 it that it would have put them at risk
01:20:29.160 to do so.
01:20:29.940 Right.
01:20:31.020 I don't know.
01:20:31.720 I'm not saying that there was a plan
01:20:33.620 to wait and let that blow over and
01:20:36.480 then be, but I think they needed it
01:20:40.620 good enough.
01:20:41.340 I thought they were just not going to
01:20:42.380 renew my contract over the summer,
01:20:43.880 which is usually what they do.
01:20:45.680 It's very common.
01:20:46.720 And you thought that might happen.
01:20:48.300 I thought with 90% certainty that
01:20:49.980 that's what would happen.
01:20:51.100 It would just be, it would make
01:20:51.980 sense.
01:20:52.720 As you said, it would be the logical
01:20:53.920 sense thing to do.
01:20:54.940 It's in their best interest.
01:20:56.500 There's no good to come up having
01:20:58.120 one of your teachers out there with a
01:20:59.800 growing audience, small, but growing
01:21:02.420 audience saying certain things that
01:21:05.720 are examined.
01:21:06.300 It could be troublesome.
01:21:08.040 There's no benefit to that.
01:21:09.600 Well, yeah.
01:21:10.140 The funny thing too is that there's no
01:21:12.340 benefit from a pure analysis of risk,
01:21:14.560 but, you know, your, your, what you
01:21:18.000 did with those videos definitely, in
01:21:20.440 my estimation anyways, brought credit
01:21:24.080 to the school.
01:21:26.360 So, you know, with more imagination,
01:21:29.960 what you accomplished could have been
01:21:33.480 very useful to the school with more
01:21:35.600 imagination.
01:21:36.480 That would require them to go public
01:21:37.640 though, which they were not going to
01:21:39.140 do.
01:21:39.380 They don't want that spotlight.
01:21:41.580 That would require people to know
01:21:42.760 what.
01:21:42.960 Yeah, well, but that, that, that
01:21:45.060 harkens back to something that we,
01:21:46.720 that we discussed is that the default
01:21:50.240 presumption for the vast majority of
01:21:53.040 people is no amount of success
01:21:55.960 justifies risk, right?
01:21:58.180 And then people ask themselves, well,
01:21:59.440 why am I not successful?
01:22:00.700 It's like, well, because your threshold
01:22:02.300 for risk is zero and zero, zero isn't a
01:22:07.660 threshold of risk that's associated with
01:22:09.840 success.
01:22:11.040 So if your presumption is I'll only be
01:22:17.000 successful if I take no risks, that's
01:22:19.980 the bargain, then you've foregone success.
01:22:22.840 And the thing about that that's perverse
01:22:24.820 is that that's a risk because we actually
01:22:27.380 don't know how much success we need in
01:22:29.720 order to reconcile ourselves to life.
01:22:31.960 Life is very difficult and so you might
01:22:35.120 need a fair bit of actual success and
01:22:38.940 opportunity to offset the difficulty.
01:22:41.480 Otherwise, it's bitterness and regret, which is
01:22:45.160 not a good pathway.
01:22:46.060 So, you know, I made excuses for the
01:22:51.080 administrators at your school, let's say, for
01:22:52.960 being taken aback and said that it was
01:22:55.760 understandable of them to assume that you
01:22:59.640 were going to merely abide in a predictable
01:23:01.560 way by the rules.
01:23:02.920 But had they been more entrepreneurial and
01:23:05.760 more open to the idea of opportunity, then the
01:23:09.980 school itself could have benefited dramatically
01:23:12.080 from what you had accomplished.
01:23:15.020 But that's also, you know, that also would
01:23:17.980 mean that in the best of all possible
01:23:20.660 worlds that, you know, you might have been
01:23:23.380 able to present them with a plan to make
01:23:25.360 that easy for them, right?
01:23:27.300 So I did see huge potential in that.
01:23:29.960 Suddenly the students, but there's a lot of
01:23:31.900 potential downside and risk to this too.
01:23:33.880 And the students suddenly have the ability to
01:23:35.620 create content that can reach a large audience.
01:23:38.940 Right.
01:23:39.180 I mean, I haven't thought this out in a clear
01:23:41.940 plan, but it was an opportunity.
01:23:45.420 Well, it's an opportunity to have a much
01:23:47.300 more realistic video editing program.
01:23:49.800 Oh.
01:23:50.100 It's like, well, now we're going to make
01:23:51.340 things that people will watch.
01:23:52.740 If this had occurred at that first high
01:23:55.540 school, Neshova, we were already putting
01:23:57.740 things on Twitter.
01:23:58.780 Yeah.
01:23:59.240 They would have, I remember the head of my
01:24:01.200 department, we would have, who knows what
01:24:03.700 we could have done with this.
01:24:04.980 Right.
01:24:05.360 So you think he would have run with it.
01:24:07.800 Yeah.
01:24:08.080 Tell me what happened.
01:24:10.000 Yeah.
01:24:10.280 I can put a button on it.
01:24:11.100 Yeah.
01:24:11.560 What happened with your job?
01:24:13.080 Like you said, you know, you thought that
01:24:14.880 the most likely consequence would be that
01:24:17.380 they just wouldn't renew your contract.
01:24:19.160 Yeah.
01:24:19.500 And when did you come to that conclusion
01:24:22.200 and how did you reconcile yourself to that?
01:24:26.180 I need to run with this opportunity, grow
01:24:29.680 if I can with this platform in case something
01:24:35.400 happens, it seems like that's a really bad,
01:24:38.780 logically, that sounds like a really bad
01:24:40.240 backup plan.
01:24:41.240 I'm going to make a YouTube channel, but it
01:24:43.880 is something.
01:24:44.560 And it's, again, I would have been a fool
01:24:46.600 not to run with that ball as far as I could
01:24:48.420 take it.
01:24:49.380 Well, especially with your broader ambitions,
01:24:51.560 you know, because you were interested in the
01:24:53.900 broader sense in connecting with an audience
01:24:56.280 and filmmaker as well.
01:24:57.660 It's like suddenly, I mean, who knows what I
01:25:00.100 could do with this?
01:25:00.940 Right.
01:25:01.600 So, but to put a button on this, what
01:25:04.420 happened?
01:25:04.980 I uploaded, I did the same thing.
01:25:07.520 I uploaded a video with a different student
01:25:10.360 who hadn't seen that video.
01:25:13.060 And I thought, because it was just from
01:25:16.080 another conversation, but it was identical.
01:25:18.180 The pattern was so identical.
01:25:19.480 I thought this might be worth sharing.
01:25:21.200 Yeah.
01:25:21.620 It's identical to the last one.
01:25:23.300 So what could go wrong?
01:25:24.340 Yeah.
01:25:25.100 He was a new student.
01:25:25.980 So I was like, we need to get permission
01:25:28.020 from your parents if you want to have after
01:25:30.300 it was done.
01:25:30.840 I was like, look, we could upload this.
01:25:32.340 It's identical.
01:25:33.800 Well, I need permission from your parents,
01:25:35.700 like written confirmation.
01:25:37.580 I need your permission because you're new.
01:25:39.340 So we don't have the releases.
01:25:41.340 And so we got that, uploaded, told the music
01:25:44.260 teacher and he was like, you know, just
01:25:48.660 because we'd been going back and forth on
01:25:51.980 what to do with the channel because we knew
01:25:53.940 people wanted that kind of, you know, that's
01:25:56.120 what the audience wanted to see real students.
01:25:58.840 Yeah, right.
01:25:59.600 But I was, and I had toyed with it.
01:26:02.280 I alluded to the communist conversation
01:26:04.440 with that other student.
01:26:06.540 And so I had posted that previously.
01:26:09.020 Two weeks go by.
01:26:10.460 I, in the middle of the day, I get called
01:26:11.840 into a meeting and they say, we've decided
01:26:13.580 to part ways because you uploaded a video
01:26:16.840 to YouTube against policy.
01:26:19.500 We told you not to do that.
01:26:21.380 I said, you told me not to do that.
01:26:22.900 You congratulated me.
01:26:24.120 I was like, how is it okay the first time?
01:26:25.520 And I, I could tell though, when I walked in
01:26:27.300 the room, their mind was already made up.
01:26:30.060 It didn't matter what I said.
01:26:31.220 So I didn't really say much.
01:26:33.060 And I said, are you, are you alluding to
01:26:34.540 this student?
01:26:35.060 I spoke to the parents and as he, have you
01:26:37.040 spoken to his parents?
01:26:38.300 Yeah.
01:26:38.540 And they said, no, we're happy to do an
01:26:41.700 investigation and reach out to him if that's
01:26:43.260 what you'd like, or you can just agree to
01:26:44.540 leave now.
01:26:45.560 And they said, could you check with his
01:26:47.320 parents?
01:26:47.700 Like, it seems like a factor to take in.
01:26:51.040 And so I said, for sure, we'll just do the
01:26:54.080 investigation.
01:26:54.900 You know, they're like, okay, go home and
01:26:56.260 HR will be in touch in three days.
01:26:59.700 But I couldn't touch anything.
01:27:02.560 They took my computer, everything.
01:27:04.020 I was like, escorted like a criminal out.
01:27:06.720 All right.
01:27:07.340 Well, look, I think I'm going to end the
01:27:09.480 YouTube side with that.
01:27:10.520 But I think what we'll do on the Daily
01:27:12.060 Wire side is delve into that in a little
01:27:14.000 bit more detail.
01:27:14.940 It'd be interesting to continue the
01:27:16.680 conversation about, well, why your school
01:27:20.340 made that decision, what possible role HR
01:27:23.120 might have played, and how these things
01:27:25.720 could be managed in general.
01:27:27.260 Because, well, people who are watching and
01:27:29.360 listening are going to be interested in,
01:27:31.320 well, what strategy should you adopt if you
01:27:35.480 dare to take risks within the confines of
01:27:37.760 an organization and find yourself running
01:27:40.540 afoul of the authorities?
01:27:41.940 And I want to know, like, exactly how you
01:27:43.780 thought this through.
01:27:44.560 So for everybody who's watching and
01:27:46.280 listening, you can join us on the Daily
01:27:47.720 Wire side for the remainder of the
01:27:50.320 this conversation.
01:27:51.500 And for now, Warren, thank you very much
01:27:53.980 for coming in today to talk about this.
01:27:56.340 Yeah, yeah.
01:27:57.380 So, you know, part of your story is what
01:28:01.200 happens when you mess with an incredibly
01:28:03.380 powerful technology, right?
01:28:05.180 Because you're living your normal life and
01:28:07.320 you're playing with YouTube.
01:28:08.440 I think that is the interesting story.
01:28:09.380 Oh, definitely.
01:28:10.160 It's like, look the hell out.
01:28:11.700 Because this is a global communication
01:28:13.600 platform that you're publishing on.
01:28:15.620 And so how do you deal with that?
01:28:17.940 Well, no one knows.
01:28:19.120 No one knows.
01:28:20.140 Hence the discussion.
01:28:21.300 So thank you very much for that.
01:28:22.700 And to everybody watching, listening,
01:28:24.220 the film crew here in Manhattan today,
01:28:25.920 thank you guys very much for setting
01:28:27.240 this up and ran very smoothly
01:28:28.960 technically.
01:28:29.640 And that's always good.
01:28:30.480 And join us on the Daily Wire side,
01:28:32.260 everyone, for the continuation of this
01:28:35.060 discussion.
01:28:36.220 Bye-bye.
01:28:36.620 Good aqui.
01:28:37.540 Bye-bye.
01:28:38.260 I've been a good one.
01:28:39.060 Bye-bye.
01:28:39.380 Bye-bye.
01:28:40.140 Bye-bye.
01:28:41.940 Bye-bye.
01:28:44.240 Bye-bye.
01:28:47.540 Bye-bye.
01:28:48.660 Bye-bye.
01:28:49.520 Bye-bye.
01:28:50.880 Bye-bye.
01:28:51.620 Bye-bye.
01:28:52.460 Bye-bye.
01:28:52.900 Bye-bye.
01:28:55.620 Bye-bye.
01:28:55.940 Bye-bye.
01:29:01.500 Bye-bye.
01:29:02.020 Bye-bye.