I had a chance to sit down and speak in person with Terry Glavin, who is one of Canada s premier journalists. I have been following his work for a long time, as have many Canadians, but there was a particular reason for talking to him now, and that is that he penned a piece for Barry Weiss and the Free Press in which he detailed the rise of anti-Semitism in Canada.
00:08:58.300We've seen one synagogue in Toronto has been attacked half a dozen times in a few weeks.
00:09:04.760We've seen Jewish businesses smashed, their windows smashed, Jewish neighborhoods, you know, throngs of anti-Zionist protesters in their neighborhoods.
00:09:20.060Yeah, it's, there is my own, I've come to the conclusion that there's very little distinction that you can draw between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.
00:09:31.760People will have all kinds of complaints about Israel.
00:09:37.260All kinds of complaints about their own government.
00:09:40.140And I think also it is complicated by, since October 7th, the very real deep anguish and suffering that is being endured by the people of Gaza.
00:09:54.720I think it's very, very, very important to notice this and to be able to talk about it.
00:09:59.720And one of the things that was really difficult for me to get at in my piece is that that's almost an impossible conversation for ordinary, decent people to have.
00:10:08.280Because as soon as you begin to discuss various policy prescriptions that might be useful in getting aid and comfort to the suffering of the people of Gaza,
00:10:19.920it is, the conversation is immediately taken over by a vast constituency of opinion that uses the suffering of Palestinians,
00:10:31.840sometimes imagined, sometimes imagined, but quite often real, to weaponizing that suffering to the purpose of a deep and fanatical ideological commitment to the destruction of the state of Israel and to driving the Jews into the sea.
00:10:51.480So, you know, whether you're a Jew or a Gentile, that conversation is almost impossible to have.
00:10:58.500And, yeah, I think, you know, most people associate anti-Semitism, I think, with, you know, sort of skinheads, people who understand their lineage, you know, from the Nazis or whatever.
00:11:19.420However, that has not been a phenomenon in Canada for a long, long, long time.
00:11:24.340And there is something that has taken its place.
00:11:29.720Far and away, anti-Semitism in Canada is what you might call a left-wing phenomenon.
00:11:37.640Yeah, I want to read something from your article, Kay, that's directly relevant to that.
00:11:43.940It's from a section called, It Was Like a Dam Burst.
00:11:46.440And so this is right after October 7th.
00:11:48.940And these are comments by Robert Krell, who's the former director of postgraduate education in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of British Columbia.
00:11:56.740The impression that the violence unfolding around them is somehow invisible to the state responsible for their protection has overwhelmed not only relative newcomers to Canada, like Rugeheimer, man, you discussed, but also Jews who have lived in Canada for decades.
00:12:13.540And the next section is almost none of these verbal or physical assaults.
00:12:18.920Okay, so we're talking about repeated demonstrations, for example, all across the country, long-term occupations of university campuses, most particularly at McGill and at the University of Toronto, with like sporadic outbursts at Concordia, which is its own kind of rat hole, and then in a variety of other places across Canada, right?
00:12:37.800Riots in Montreal as well, downtown demonstrations in Toronto.
00:12:41.280Almost none of these verbal or physical assaults are coming from white supremacists, very rare breed in Canada, or anti-Semites of the right-wing variety.
00:12:51.460I mean, when I joined forces with the Daily Wire, one of whose lead spokespeople, let's say, is Ben Shapiro, who's probably the most well-known Orthodox Jew, American Orthodox Jew in the world, the right-wing anti-Semites came after me in droves.
00:13:07.860And they had been doing that for years for a variety of reasons.
00:13:10.300So those people exist, and they're entirely detestable in 15 different dimensions, but they're not organized in the same manner as these left-wing anti-Semites, and they don't pose anywhere near the danger.
00:13:21.040And, well, this is what you describe in your article.
00:13:25.040They are being carried out by self-described progressives, Arabs, and often recent immigrants who are operating inside an ideological framework of settler colonialism,
00:13:36.200which casts Canada, the U.S., Australia, and most of all Israel, as irredeemably illegitimate constructs of imperialism, capitalism, genocide, and racism.
00:13:50.400It's an ideology that has found a comfortable home in Trudeau's Canada.
00:13:55.680Okay, so let's zero in on this a little bit.
00:13:58.640So I wrote an article about Jewish support for the Democrats about three months ago for a U.K. publication.
00:14:07.720It was, ha, I tried to publish it at the National Post and at the Telegraph.
00:14:11.940And they'll usually pretty much take whatever I send them, but they found this one too contentious.
00:14:42.580Now, you draw some relationships in your article, which I think are very much worth drawing because, I don't know, maybe this took the Jewish liberal community by surprise.
00:14:55.560But it's completely unsurprising if you understand the progressive ideological agenda that the Palestinians were cast as victims.
00:15:03.580And if people are going to play out a victim-victimizer narrative, which is a progressive narrative, the Jews are always going to be cast as victim-victimizers because they are overrepresented in positions of authority and preeminence.
00:15:20.420And now, my interpretation of that is that the competent rise to the top.
00:15:25.740And there's a variety of reasons for excessive Jewish competence.
00:15:28.520And it's marked, for example, in the fact that the Jews have produced an overwhelmingly disproportionate number, let's say, of Nobel laureates.
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00:16:48.500It places tremendous emphasis on intellectual ability, and there's more to it than that.
00:16:55.200But the alternative hypothesis is that it's a cabal, and it's a cabal that dominates, and it's a worldwide cabal.
00:17:03.500And if you buy the victimizer-victim narrative, which is key to the progressive agenda, then the Jews are going to be at the top of the list.
00:17:12.860The whole diversity, equity, and inclusion phenomenon, there's absolutely no room for the Jews there.
00:17:21.460Well, if the rule is, if your ethnic group is overrepresented statistically, you're an oppressor, then that puts the Jews at the top of the oppressor hierarchy.
00:17:33.240Okay, so now, one of the things I'm curious about, and I'd like your thoughts about this, is that I don't exactly understand why the Jewish community didn't see this coming.
00:17:42.360Because this is a logical consequence of that.
00:17:46.200Well, I'm going to talk about Canadian Jews.
00:17:48.340Things are a little weird in the United States.
00:17:50.260And I mean, I think I can understand a lot of the intellectual community, the strata in the United States, you know, finding Donald Trump vulgar and repugnant.
00:17:58.960And that's why a lot of Jews, I think, didn't vote for him.
00:18:01.580Yeah, well, I think that's true for many people.
00:18:50.600I think other people have used the term cultural Marxism, which kind of, you know, it certainly borrows the language of Marxism and borrows the language of the left.
00:18:59.500But, of course, replaces the proletariat, the working class, is replaced by this kind of, you know, rainbow coalition.
00:19:10.060Yeah, various dimensions of oppression.
00:19:11.480Ethnic, racial, and gender subsets and subgroups.
00:19:18.220Yes, I think, well, I think those are parallel explanations.
00:19:20.880The other thing I think that's important to understand about anti-Semitism, it's not just like any other prejudice.
00:19:30.700And I think a lot of people who perhaps were once Marxists or are informed by the intellectual tradition in Marxism can easily get that wrong,
00:19:49.540can easily imagine that, you know, the powerful hand of the international bourgeoisie has, you know, their names often end in Stein and Berg.
00:20:03.400And the next thing you know, you know, it's the Jews are being thrown down wells.
00:20:08.980And I think just to understand where we are in Canada particularly, I think it's really necessary to understand the trajectory of the left over the last 25, 30 years.
00:20:24.000Yes, and also the fact that when you describe the trajectory of the left, you're also now describing the trajectory of the federal liberals, which wouldn't have necessarily been the...
00:20:54.440Much of the democratic left was, or at least resigned to it and confused by it.
00:21:00.560And then, during the 1990s, the primary iteration of left-wing activism and politics was anti-globalization, showing up with these massive demonstrations at the IMF and the World Bank and the World Economic Forum.
00:21:15.040And then came 9-1-1, and 9-1-1 was kind of like a blunt trauma wound to everybody's head.
00:21:25.640And some kind of a science fiction movie.
00:21:28.800And immediately, what happened was, you know, the left's, the iteration of the international left and the activist milieu was cloaked in anti-war activism, right?
00:21:45.160And it shouldn't have taken much effort on the part of the mass media, unfortunately, and I have to confess as a lifelong journalist, the media was not at all helpful in failing to recognize that this phenomenon that was being presented on the nightly news and on the front pages of the paper as an anti-war movement, they were actually on the other side.
00:22:09.060They were on the other side, and at the core of it, at the very, very core of it, whatever you happen to think about Afghanistan or Iraq, at the core of it was anti-Zionism, this thing called anti-Zionism.
00:22:20.880And that had sort of percolated from the 1970s.
00:22:24.280A lot of it was informed by Soviet propaganda, but from the United Nations, you know, the Durban Conference, the proposition that Zionism is racism, right?
00:22:36.120Now, in Canada, the way Erwin Kotler put it to me, I think very well, who, he's kind of my lodestar, I confess.
00:23:20.940You know, the way we understand our role in the world, our place in the world, I mean, we were there at the Foundation of Israel.
00:23:27.140We were there in the crafting of the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights.
00:23:34.060We were there in all of the protocols and conventions that arose from the ashes of the Shoah.
00:23:39.480This was a very Canadian thing, and it was something to be proud of.
00:23:42.480But what we haven't really noticed over the years is the way the United Nations has been taken over by the Organization of the Islamic Congress.
00:23:50.800It's been taken over by the police state bloc.
00:23:53.720The last time I looked, I think Beijing was basically in control of seven of the 11 major United Nations agencies.
00:24:00.920And then you get the United Nations Relief Works Agency, which is this strange, strange organization that keeps alive the prospect that Israel is just a temporary aberration.
00:24:12.920And that somehow the massively growing Palestinian refugee population—it's not really a refugee population—will somehow be sorted by the restoration of a Palestinian or an Arab sovereignty in all the places where Israel currently exists.
00:24:35.980So it's really hard for Canadians to sort of think, hmm, maybe the United Nations—maybe these—are we the baddies, you know?
00:24:43.840So how do you see that in parallel with the politicization of, like, the pro-Hamas movements in Canada?
00:24:51.800There's things running in parallel here.
00:24:53.460We talked about the victim-victimizer narrative.
00:24:55.540We talked about the—what would you say—the alliance between the progressive left and the claim that Zionism is part of the colonial movement, which includes Canada and the U.S.
00:25:05.300Now you've introduced Canada's role in the U.N. and our historical allegiance with the U.N.
00:25:09.640How do you see those tangling together?
00:25:11.740The way I see those tangling together, if we can think of it in terms of the Liberal Party or the Trudeau Liberals, right?
00:25:19.260Not the same as a lot of what a lot of people imagine the Liberals to be.
00:25:23.840Is that this kind of intellectual slovenliness that the sort of blind adherence to United Nations declarations and so on is—and the entire panoply of its, you know, settler colonial—colonial settler state politics.
00:25:52.760It's diversity, equity, and inclusion politics.
00:25:59.960It's just there's no way that it can defend itself against a virulent, lurid, blood-curdling, anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic.
00:26:14.880Okay, so let me summarize that and tell me if I've got it right.
00:26:17.720So we've seen the rise of this progressive insistence that projects like Canada and the United States, et cetera, and Israel are part of this colonial capitalist oppressive enterprise.
00:26:29.280Now that's permeated Canadian society to some degree, but it's also permeated the U.N.
00:26:33.820And Canada has been historically aligned with the U.N., and our foreign policy has been determined by that alliance for a very long time.
00:26:42.560Well, influenced then, if not determined, influenced.
00:26:45.580And that was a matter of pride in Canada when the U.N. was quasi-functional organization, let's say.
00:26:50.820But so you see the emergence of that post-Soviet Union Marxist-inspired colonial rhetoric in the U.N. and in Canada.
00:27:02.260And the fact that Canada's been allied with the U.N. has also shaped our foreign policy in a rather unthinking manner, especially under Trudeau, who has no—what would you say?
00:28:23.820And he is the—well, and the narcissism element, you know, you talked about him to some degree as an empty drum, let's say.
00:28:30.920And I have made reference to him as a narcissist.
00:28:34.040I mean, my observation in that regard was driven by the manner in which he adopted the leadership of the Liberal Party.
00:28:41.560Because I felt at the—and I'd like your opinion about this.
00:28:45.420When he emerged, I thought I kind of had two—I was of two opinions, right?
00:28:51.200People went to him and made the case that he would be a credible and popular leader of the Liberals, not least because of his name brand recognition.
00:29:00.760And I can imagine being in that position, let's say, and thinking, okay, this is a risky enterprise because I don't have the CV that would indicate that I'm capable of running a G7 country.
00:29:13.600But if I don't run, then the conservatives, who were my father's foes, let's say, and aren't aligned with me politically, have a really good crack at victory.
00:29:24.640And if I put my name forward, maybe we can forestall that.
00:29:27.720And then maybe I could put my nose to the grindstone, and I could learn—I could surround myself with, like, high-level experts, and I could learn to play the part if I, you know, if I was open to that kind of learning.
00:29:39.980Like, okay, that's an unlikely scenario, that one.
00:30:14.400And he's been in that milieu his whole life, and he's been groomed for that.
00:30:18.080But as far as the intellectual milieu, if there was such a thing, around his emergence, well, I mean, everybody was willing to give him a chance.
00:30:48.580And I have many friends and comrades who are associated with the Syrian revolutionary movement.
00:30:56.020And what the NATO countries, what was being asked of the NATO countries at the time was a no-fly zone over Syria.
00:31:01.700All we need is one NATO country to say, yes, we need to do this, because the Americans couldn't really understand what was going on.
00:31:09.240And everyone hoped that it might be Trudeau who said, yeah, I'm in.
00:31:13.280And he did give me, and of course, there was the whole Syrian refugee issue, and he did try to, he made a lot of capital, political capital out of that.
00:32:02.100Well, he's certainly much more credible as a leader of a G7 country than Justin Trudeau, at least on the basis of his...
00:32:08.160Basically, you know, it's so difficult to explain this to people from away.
00:32:12.420You know, if you can imagine a kind of, oh, I don't know, a TikTok account run by a, you know, a 19-year-old college girl in charge of a G7 country.
00:34:46.960This isn't a really important thing for people to understand.
00:34:52.940His entire campaign was built around the proposition, and this is how he sort of lent gravitas to himself, that the key to the future is China.
00:35:04.940The middle class prosperity is all about China, China, China.
00:35:08.040And this immediately, you know, he immediately accrued to himself a lot of money and a lot of power and a lot of help.
00:35:16.440The Desmarais Corporation, the power corporation in Montreal, those whole circles.
00:35:22.120And of course, his father, people don't like to talk about this when they talk about Pierre Trudeau, but he was probably the most important propaganda asset for the Chinese Communist Party during the Maoist period in the English-speaking world.
00:35:56.500Well, we were also optimistic, I think, in the West for a reasonable amount of time that if China integrated itself into the Western economy, that they would liberalize across time.
00:37:00.540Okay, so now we've got three things operating here.
00:37:03.680We've got the rise of this kind of neo-marxism, we've got the UN influence, and now we have the China nexus, right?
00:37:11.480This is all shaping what's happening in Canada.
00:37:13.700Yeah, okay, and, I mean, anybody who's followed Canadian politics at all in the last five years will be aware of the scandals associated with the intimacies between the Trudeau liberals and the United Front Work Department of the Chinese Communist Party and the Organization Department of the Politburo of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:37:36.880The manipulation and monkey-wrenching of elections in 2019 and 2021.
00:37:43.280Yeah, we still don't know the full extent of that.
00:37:44.840Yeah, the whole commission has yet to report, you know, sort of report.
00:37:48.180Right, and there's background rumours about a number of liberal MPs being unduly influenced on the financial side.
00:37:57.000One of the things that's difficult for people to grasp is that, you know, a lot of people ask me, my goodness, the Chinese must have something on.
00:38:11.100He doesn't see anything wrong with it.
00:38:13.400Yes, well, that was evident in many of his pre-election audiences.
00:38:16.400You know, if you take all the crazy things, well, I don't know, some of the things that the Democrats are saying about Trump and Russia were not crazy.
00:38:23.500But if you take all the extreme accusations that the Democrats were making about Trump's associations with the Kremlin in the 2015 election, yeah.
00:38:36.780Multiply that by 10, and you have, in the real world, Justin Trudeau's collusions and complicity with the Chinese Communist Party.
00:38:54.840To understand Justin Trudeau, you have to understand he sees nothing wrong with this.
00:39:00.400When he got elected, immediately after he got elected, in the first election, he sat down with a reporter from the New York Times and said, this is what basically Canada is.
00:39:18.840And immediately, the question should have turned to, I remember talking to Jerry Butts about this, his sort of principal advisor, because we used to be quite chummy.
00:40:00.940Well, if you hang around with the Canada-China Business Council long enough, if you enthusiastically support, for instance, the largest overseas acquisition in the history of the People's Republic of China, the, you know, CNOX acquisition of Nexon.
00:40:20.620Well, yeah, it was at a time when, just before Justin Trudeau was elected, when the Chinese Communist Party was buying up all the major, really key strategic sort of spigot points in the oil patch in Alberta.
00:40:32.940And the Harper government, the cabinet, was terribly divided about this.
00:40:45.660You know, sure, it's a lot of money, they're offering us twice the share value for every purchase they're making, but no, we do not want Canada's energy sector to be owned by the organization department of the Politburo.
00:40:58.300Probably better than that than Stephen Grilbo.
00:41:25.020What are Canada's national interests if we're a post-national country?
00:41:30.120Yeah, well, there's no national interest by definition.
00:41:32.420There's this kind of, and as I say, I don't know that I want to describe it as an ideology.
00:41:37.040It's kind of like an ideational package.
00:41:39.440This notion that Canada is this racist, colonial, settler state that has engaged in genocide after genocide against its indigenous peoples, and we're the liberals, and we're the nice ones.
00:41:56.580And so that's essentially what Trudeau was all about, and I think, you know, there's an adage that what starts with the Jews doesn't end with the Jews.
00:42:37.900It happened on the weekend of May 29th, yeah, May 29th, 2021, when Justin Trudeau lowered the flag on Parliament Hill, and on the Monday ordered the flag lowered on all federal buildings across the country, owing to a report out of Kamloops about the discovery of a mass grave.
00:43:26.900They said, look, you know, we have a lot of people who are veterans, and we lower our flags on the 11th of November, and also on Aboriginal Veterans Day.
00:43:36.640So how the hell are we going to lower the flags if they're already lowered?
00:43:49.000We have the idea of the colonialist state.
00:43:51.900We have the, like, the perversion of the UN.
00:43:54.820Then we have the rise of neo-Marxism in Canada.
00:43:58.760We have the pernicious influence of the Chinese communists on Trudeau's campaign and his worldview right from the beginning, stemming from his father.
00:44:59.660But God forbid they should stand up on their own two feet and say, actually, no, we're restoring Jewish sovereignty in our ancient homeland.
00:45:08.340And you will not take that tone with us anymore, thank you very much.
00:46:04.240Anyway, I mean, there is some vague reference that can be drawn to, I think, an Anishinaabe creation myth, but whatever.
00:46:10.840I think it is a bowdlerization of the magnificent cultural diversity of indigenous peoples in this country, which we could talk about because you live in an interesting place.
00:46:24.320So we're filming this in a very interesting place.
00:46:29.140But the idea that if indigenous people would stand up and say, actually, okay, this whole territory, as far as the eye can see, you idiots, you never signed a treaty with us.
00:46:41.440We still own the land under British and Canadian constitutional law.
00:47:44.300But there's also the fact that there's now 1.8 million Muslims in the country.
00:47:48.900Right, because we need another dimension of complexity.
00:47:51.240And I don't want to, you know, it's very, this is really fighting words for me.
00:47:55.420Because, you know, a lot of my friends are Muslims and Arabs and my compatriots.
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00:49:11.520Yeah, this multiplicity of diversities and so on.
00:49:15.640What you find is that there are certain organizations and institutions in this country that are very well financed and resourced by the federal government and are intended to speak on behalf of, for instance, Canadian Muslims.
00:49:32.340One of them is the Muslim Association of Canada, which is explicitly devoted to the theology of Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the fountainhead of Islamism, who was a collaborator with and a philosophical fellow traveler with Adolf Hitler.
00:49:53.420So this is a bit of a problem, you know?
00:49:56.740I mean, this is not going to work out well in the long run.
00:50:25.500And he said, you know, this, Canada's position on Israel is incomprehensible.
00:50:31.280You insist, because you need to, that Israel has a right to defend itself.
00:50:35.920And yet you will refuse to send any munitions to Israel or anything at all that might be used as a part of an airplane that might be in the Israeli Air Force.
00:50:52.620And she went so far as to, I think it was General Dynamics as a plant in Quebec.
00:50:57.560So it's actually American material going to Israel.
00:51:04.540And she said, no, we're not going to issue an export permit for that either.
00:51:08.500So Israel has a right to defend itself, but Israel is not allowed to have the means to defend itself.
00:51:15.040So Mulcair says, this is incomprehensible.
00:51:34.800You know, I mean, first of all, it's reprehensible that that's the case.
00:51:37.900But the fact that she would be so blatant as to say it is really quite the miracle.
00:51:43.240And if you look at the Democrats of her writing, or it's probably the demographics of her writing, Ahantzik Karshaville, the immigration into that writing has been off the charts.
00:51:56.460I mean, immigration into the country has been off the charts.
00:52:33.480One of them apparently being that Justin Trudeau finds it impossible to deal with women who have anything approximating their own opinions.
00:52:41.520And just for fun, her replacement, Dominic LeBlanc, used to be Trudeau's babysitter.
00:52:50.280Now, just imagine if Donald Trump appointed his babysitter as the Secretary of the Treasury.
00:52:54.640The Yanks would have a lot of fun with that.
00:52:57.480You don't think being Trudeau's babysitter qualifies him to be finance minister of a G7?
00:53:06.200Well, that also speaks to this weird—we could throw this into the mix, too.
00:53:10.840I don't know what you think about this.
00:53:12.060But it seems to me as well that the way that Canada is constituted, especially with its emphasis on bilingualism, that it dooms the entire country to domination by the 13% of French-Canadian bilingualism.
00:53:27.000Here's the thing, the other thing that Americans have to understand, is that Canada is a bilingual, constitutional monarchy, one of the most decentralized federal systems on Earth,
00:53:43.420that is thinly populated and spread out across the top of the most dynamic cultural phenomenon in the history of nation-states.
00:53:57.580So the role of a Canadian prime minister has always been to unite the country, to keep—you know, the role of federal policy has always been to allow Canadians to have a conversation amongst themselves.
00:54:11.880It's why we fund the CBC and the Canadian Council for the Arts and what have you.
00:54:17.360And it's a difficult thing to do because we are very, very culturally diverse.
00:54:23.200I mean, in every traditional sense of the word, the French-speaking people of Quebec, the Poulain Quebecers, are a nation in every conventional sense of the word.
00:54:36.360And Canada is, well, yeah, I guess we're kind of a nation, but it's complicated.
00:54:41.320I mean, it is vastly complicated, and it's a huge landscape.
00:54:46.740So the function of a prime minister has to be to unite the country.
00:54:52.040Yes, under something approximating a national identity.
00:56:20.540Within the next 12 months, those permits expire.
00:56:23.100Then there's another, between 50,000 and 500,000, according to the official guess of the Immigration and Refugees and Citizenship Department,
00:56:35.700who are what they call out-of-contract workers, which are undocumented workers.
00:56:40.500Now, for Americans to hear these numbers, you know, America's 10 times as many people as 10 times as populous.
00:56:46.880So, you know, just do the math, right?
00:56:49.460If there's 5 million, if there are 50 million Americans or people living in the United States whose temporary permits expire within the next 12 months
00:56:58.640and who have all given every impression that they do not intend to leave.
00:58:27.160But I actually haven't seen in Polyev a degree of sophistication in comprehending the nature and the scope of what he's going to be facing when he takes it.
00:58:40.540Well, I don't know if he can comprehend it.
00:58:43.180I mean, I regard myself as a moderately sophisticated political observer, and you've made me more pessimistic today.
00:58:53.400Well, I was already very concerned about the state of Canada because I think that...
00:58:59.420Well, I'll give you an example, and you probably know this already.
00:59:02.480But before Justin took office, GDP per capita in Canada was approximately at parity with the U.S.
00:59:12.340Okay, now our richest province, Ontario, the inhabitants of our richest province by per capita GDP are poorer than the average inhabitant of Mississippi.
00:59:39.600And we know Trudeau just announced a $62 billion deficit yesterday, which was $22 billion higher than the pessimistic estimate that his finance minister had come up with a few months ago.
00:59:52.920So whatever state we think the country is in is nowhere near as grim as the state the country is actually in.
01:00:01.280And what my fear for Poliev is that he's going to take power in October, because I think Trudeau will hang on until then, but maybe not.
01:00:11.040And things will be revealed to be demonstrably worse than they are on multiple dimensions.
01:00:19.080You've outlined like six in our discussion today.
01:00:22.400And he will be saddled with the blame.
01:00:26.020And so he'll have a four-year term while he muddles through the absolute bloody nightmare that Trudeau has left, and then the liberals are connived their way back into power.
01:00:48.220Well, yeah, I think the probability, like the most likely outcome in an October election in 2025 is that the liberals are essentially decimated.
01:00:58.280Yeah, I mean, they could remember after Mulroney, after the Mulroney government collapsed, essentially, I think the progressive conservatives were reduced to three seats federally, right?
01:01:23.320Well, it actually did happen here, and it happened back then, and it was the reform part.
01:01:27.000Yeah, that's also happening in the UK.
01:01:29.820You know that Farage fashioned his party after the reform party in Canada, right?
01:01:37.700Well, one of the things I think conservatives should remember about the reform party is the result of the reform party was they reduced the conservatives to three, and they ushered in a decade of liberal rule.
01:02:21.220And it was actually the proportion of Muslims who agreed to answer a particular question about suicide bombing and about whether or not the state of Israel should be allowed to exist.
01:03:20.740And public opinion back then showed that the overwhelming majority of, well, Muslims in Canada were actually demonstrating a higher degree of pride in their country than what you might call old stock Canadians.
01:03:35.440And the main complaint that Muslims had about Canada was so damn cold here.
01:03:40.600Nobody was worried about, nobody was freaking out.
01:03:42.400Perfectly solid complaint, by the way.
01:03:43.840You know, no, it's just, I think we have to be very, very, very careful about understanding the nature of the problem.
01:03:55.660And we have to be very careful about the words that we use, the language that we use.
01:03:59.620And we all use these words, the kind of euphemisms, left-wing or progressive.
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01:06:07.020And it had an unbelievably rich, like, nightlife and culture.
01:06:11.400And it was a wonderful place to live, extremely peaceful.
01:06:15.940And it was diverse in the most positive possible manner.
01:06:19.580And to see riots, to see the sorts of things that are happening in Concordia, the sorts of things that are happening on the streets in Montreal, it's just, it's appalling beyond belief.
01:06:29.260And then, of course, I was embarrassed as a former, well, current, I suppose, professor at the University of Toronto to see the encampments there and the encampments at McGill.
01:06:39.460Well, I got my doctoral degree at McGill, and I loved McGill, and it was a great university.
01:06:43.920And so there's terrible things afoot in Canada that I would have never dreamed of occurring here.
01:06:51.820And, you know, I have a particular and personal animus against the Trudeau government for a variety of reasons.
01:06:57.360But I'm very curious about what you've seen.
01:07:00.220Like, I don't even know how politically aligned you and I are.
01:07:02.620I mean, that's a complicated thing in today's world.
01:07:04.560But you're obviously very disturbed by what you're observing.
01:07:08.000And we have a lot of international listeners and viewers on this show.
01:07:11.460And so what have you seen emerge in Canada, you know?
01:07:15.660Yeah, well, I'll go back, I think, to what I was inarticulately trying to describe about the trajectory of the left since the 1990s.
01:07:24.280I think by the 80s, I think, or the 90s, you could say that we'd won we, if I can say that, because I kind of came from the left.
01:07:35.000Although I have no ideological commitments, and I'm kind of sour these days on the left.
01:08:12.020And I think, I mean, a mistake to get too weird, not to get too weird about it, but one mistake Marxists made was this idea that there is no more useful role for the bourgeoisie in the progress of human society.
01:08:27.760They actually were wrong about that, because it was the bourgeoisie that led the charge against slavery and for women's rights.
01:08:36.760So, at any rate, by the 80s or the 90s, you know, we'd won.
01:08:46.680And there is this very dark phenomenon that has occupied the places where, all the places where the left used to be.
01:08:57.300And it is invariably masochistic, sinister, self-hating, let's tear down the liberal democracies, let's cast Canada as this illegitimate racist colonial settler state, let's identify Israel as the epitome of everything that we loathe and despise.
01:09:38.700And that was the thing that I was watching over the years, is that, you know, I spent a lot of, well, my last major book was about Afghanistan, and I spent a lot of time in Syria and the northeast with the Kurds and what have you.
01:09:50.680How much knowledge do you think typical Canadians have about what's going on?
01:10:21.580After that, well, maybe you'll be allowed to have an opinion about something.
01:10:25.340Really elaborate conventions and disciplines in what was essentially a trade, a craft.
01:10:37.020And with the, you know, the golden era was about the 1980s, I would say, 1970s, 1980s.
01:10:44.240And then with the advent of digital technologies and a whole bunch of other reasons, the news media, the conventional news media began to wither away and collapse.
01:10:56.280And it's replaced by, you know, people talk about the mainstream media.
01:10:59.360Well, the mainstream media today is Twitter.
01:11:02.840And so, in this period, it became increasingly difficult for journalists to actually tell a story, the results be damned.
01:11:15.480It's much easier to basically fill your shift with three or four stories for deadline, each of which more or less uphold the narrative framework of the subscriber base that your media organization is targeting.
01:11:38.140A lot of it does have, a lot of it really is about the decline and the collapse of news media.
01:11:47.400I mean, I can talk about that a little bit because it's something I know.
01:11:52.120But I think a lot of it, too, I think is language.
01:11:56.880It's simple language that probably ends up with, you know, most ordinary people who are only casually interested in, you know,
01:12:06.640the struggle for democracy in China or events in the Middle East or the strange creature that has come to occupy all the spaces where the Liberal Party used to be.
01:12:43.240Very authoritarian, very much a sort of state capitalist thought control kind of way of looking at politics.
01:12:55.240Well, you know, one of the things our discussion is sort of highlighting, I think, is that let's say you adopt the narrative that the center is corrupt and patriarchal and oppressive and Canada's destiny is post-national.
01:13:09.900Okay, now, one hypothetical problem with that is, well, what rises to take the place of the center?
01:13:18.320And you've pointed to all sorts of things, like a demented kind of neo-Marxism, the rise of an authoritarian UN on the foreign policy front, the dire and dismal influence of the Chinese Communist Party, the rise of the Islamist faction of the increasingly large Muslim population.
01:13:38.480And then, well, okay, that's for, and then the rise, and the associated rise of the, yeah, yeah, the colonialist narrative that casts Israel as king of the oppressive states, right?
01:13:55.600Well, so it's this fractionation, you know, once that center collapses, instead of everybody becoming free, you get this absurd fractionation, and then a war between different, what would you say, centers of power.
01:14:09.000And we're trying to flesh out the pattern of that.
01:14:12.060I mean, you pointed to a lot of things that are going wrong simultaneously, and there's some thread that unites them, but some of it's just emblematic of a kind of chaotic collapse of identity, right?
01:14:23.600And so, and Trudeau's going to step out of this, leaving us in Canada in a terrible mess.
01:14:30.980I mean, I know him, and what I've seen so far, I'm happy about.
01:14:37.420I mean, I've been talking to conservatives in Canada ever since 2016, really, when I sort of burst onto the scene in my opposition to Bill C-16.
01:14:47.880You know, and the conservatives that I talked to eight years ago were much more timid bunch than the conservatives that are emerging in Canada now.
01:14:59.140And so, Poliev and Daniel Smith, they're both tough people.
01:15:03.220And so, that's heartening as far as I'm concerned.
01:15:06.600Whether Poliev is in a position to right the ship that Trudeau has inverted, that's a whole different question.
01:15:14.120I mean, I wish him well, but I'm also pleased in a, what would you say, personal sense that I don't have his job.
01:15:22.040Because, like, I mean, I look at Canada with a kind of horror at the moment, because we are in very bad shape economically.
01:15:30.280And, I mean, just the fact that just, Canadians now make 60% as much as the average American.
01:15:37.940And our real estate is twice as expensive.
01:15:39.800Yeah, and the trajectory is downward, right?
01:15:43.140And I think it was, what, was it World Economic Forum or the World Bank?
01:15:56.020Well, and that's on top of the fact, that's adjacent to the fact that if Canada had its act together in anything approximating a realistic manner,
01:16:04.760at least the West could be rich beyond belief, because it's definitely the case that the world is dying, fighting for our natural resources.
01:16:14.600And, I mean, you saw the fact that the German Chancellor and the Japanese Prime Minister came cap and hand to Trudeau and said,
01:17:13.400We're going to see an absolute rout of the Liberals in the next election.
01:17:18.460One of the things we haven't even discussed is the rise of the independentistes in Quebec, the Bloc.
01:17:25.040Because there's another dimension of complexity that tears Canada apart, which Canada is in such bad shape that when we're talking about threats to Canada, we didn't even mention the separatists.
01:17:42.420Although one of the things that's interesting about Quebec is that all of these things that bedevil us and are, you know, increasingly bourgeois sensitivities about race and gender and Quebecers aren't phased.
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01:22:38.180Yeah, well, I'm shocked by what's happened to Canada.
01:22:42.580I mean, one of the precipitating factors in my recent move to the United States was Bill C-63.
01:22:49.500I don't know if you've managed to delve into the weeds with regards to Bill C-63.
01:22:54.480But it's a bill that's so awful that every time I read it, I think, because I'm not a lawyer, you know, I think, there's no way I'm understanding this properly.
01:23:04.780You know, and then I read it again and I think, yeah, well, you know, usually I can understand what I'm reading.
01:23:10.560And this is, I mean, it's such a dense web of stunning, incompetent malevolence because it starts with these pronouncements about protecting children from online exploitation and pornography.
01:23:24.620Simultaneously, of course, the biggest pornography network in the world operates out of Canada, right?
01:23:29.980That's Pornhub, which operates out of Montreal.
01:23:31.900And to call it a despicable organization is to barely scrape the surface.
01:23:37.000If Trudeau and his minions were the least bit serious about protecting children from online pornography, there's a lot better places they can start than Bill C-63.
01:23:45.880But virtue signaling at the beginning, virtue signaling at the end, we're protecting children.
01:23:51.340It's like, yeah, I don't think you are.
01:23:53.520But then in the middle, there's all these clauses detailing out first the construction of a bureaucracy, which, as far as I can tell, would have unlimited power, all the power of the court and the power of unlimited growth.
01:24:08.180And it says right in the bill that that court system, a new parallel court system, would not be bound by the traditional standards of evidence.
01:24:32.080And I think they know damn well that there's absolutely no way that any of this will withstand a charter challenge.
01:24:39.440And the point of this is, well, the point of this, and this is the case that he makes that I think is persuasive, is they're just trying to scare you.
01:24:55.140No, but I really thought through Bill C-63.
01:24:58.520Like, I've already had my fair share of trouble with the Ontario College of Psychologists because they have weaponized, they have allowed activists to weaponize their complaint process.
01:25:10.300And what could be done to be under the auspices of Bill C-63 make what happened with the college, who I've managed to successfully battle off so far, look like nothing.
01:25:21.740Here's how what we've been discussing, particularly anti-Semitism, directly relates to this concern of yours in the matter of Bill C-63.
01:25:32.900And it also directly relates to how I've been attacked for merely noticing that a lot of what we've heard about mass graves, this archipelago of mass graves across the country at residential schools, it's a fiction.
01:25:48.860There is a proposal, and it's supported by the Justice Minister, Arif Farhani.
01:26:29.880And the other one, and I think we didn't even talk about this, the most pernicious, is this recent construction of anti-Palestinian racism.
01:26:42.000Well, yeah, but if you look at the definition of it, and again, you know, Trudeau says he's willing to adopt this in some form, as has the Justice Minister said the same.
01:26:52.700The standard definition of anti-Palestinian racism devised by the Arab-Canadian Lawyers Association, which I've never heard of before, and I think this is all they've ever done, is any utterance of a conventional Zionist standpoint cannot but be understood as anti-Palestinian racism.
01:27:16.120So that would include support for the fact of Israel's existence?
01:27:21.720The mere support for the fact of Israel's existence as a Jewish sovereignty in the Holy Land.
01:27:27.720That if you confront or deny or dispute the Palestinian narrative, if you dispute the Nakba, if you deny the right of Palestinians, their claim to title of all of historic Palestine, then you are engaging in anti-Palestinian racism.
01:27:47.920In other words, then you're a Zionist.
01:27:49.320Okay, so let's tie that into Bill C-63.
01:27:56.580Well, so in Bill C-63, there's a provision, which I've read several times, that if I am afraid, because that's the language in the bill, that Terry might utter something hateful in the next year, so let's say that would be your support for the existence of Israel,
01:28:15.900Well, then I can bring you in front of a provincial magistrate, and he can fit you with an electronic bracelet, and you can be confined to your home for a year.
01:28:25.900And all of your social media posting will be disallowed, and whoever you see will be regulated.
01:28:31.980And, and this is something I just can't figure out at all, it's so preposterous that it beggars belief, you will be required to donate body fluid on a regular basis to your physician to have it monitored on a daily basis.
01:29:11.380Because if you want to protect it, if you want to mitigate the probability of domestic abuse, limiting the abuser's alcohol consumption is actually a logical move.
01:29:20.280I'm not claiming that on ethical or legal grounds.
01:29:22.800I just mean that alcohol does increase the probability of abuse substantively.
01:29:27.340And I can't imagine where else they would have got the idea.
01:29:30.060But that's in that bill in black and white.
01:29:36.580Okay, apart from the fact that the liberals are history, apart from the fact that Trudeau is a dead man walking, quite apart from all that, I don't think there was any serious expectation that any of these laws, these initiatives would survive a charter challenge.
01:29:58.120It's all about intimidation. And I think one of the things that our friends in Hong Kong, in the democracy movement, insisted upon was, do not obey in advance.
01:30:36.140You're being foolish by running off to America.
01:30:38.680Yeah, well, I have many other reasons for being there.
01:30:41.880But, you see, I wonder about that because my experience with the Ontario College of Psychologists, I would say, suggests otherwise.
01:30:51.640Because none of my professional colleagues, including physicians, with pretty much zero exception, have stood up publicly and said that what's happened to me is wrong.
01:31:10.440They're afraid because the professional colleges have unlimited power of regulation over the members of regulated professions, which is pretty much what my Supreme Court challenge denial indicated.
01:31:27.700And if a professional is brought to task, let's say, by their professional college and loses their license, then they're terrified.
01:31:42.400And I looked at C-63 carefully, and it would produce a parallel bureaucracy, a bureaucracy that would regulate the speech and conduct of all Canadians in almost precisely the same way that the professional colleges regulate the speech and conduct of regulated professionals.
01:31:57.880I don't think Canadians would stand up.
01:32:24.740You know, and I've talked to many physicians in particular, because it's mostly physicians I've talked to who are terrified of the Ontario College of Physicians, for example, because they'll make their life...
01:32:35.200I mean, this bloody court case, for me, it's gone on eight years.
01:33:28.840The third one was entrepreneurial, and it was under my control.
01:33:32.100But two was a lot, and three would have been, well, catastrophic.
01:33:36.840And so, if you only have one, and that's your professional practice, well, it's not surprising that people are cowed and intimidated into silence.
01:33:45.440And so, okay, well, we have to wrap up on the YouTube side, and I think what we'll do on the Daily Wire side is, well, we'll continue our discussion about Canada.
01:33:56.300I'm curious about your thoughts about, well, the Conservatives under Pierre Polyev.
01:34:02.180I want to know what you think about him.
01:34:32.100And, you know, and as we said, we deprioritized the Quebec sovereignists, right?
01:34:36.240So you can see how, and they've been a fundamental threat to Canadian integrity for, like, 40 years.
01:34:41.900So, on the Daily Wire side, let's turn our attention to Canada's future, dire and positive, you know, because we can flesh out both alternatives.
01:34:50.600And I think for you international people who are listening, you know, the reason to be concerned about Canadian politics, which have actually become of some interest internationally in the last nine years, is because, like the Jews in Canada and in the U.S., maybe in the West worldwide, Canada is also a canary in the coal mine.
01:35:09.880Because Justin Trudeau is a poster boy for the progressives worldwide, and whatever strange political tangents we're meandering down in Canada are isomorphic with the political threats that exist in the U.K. and the United States, although now less to some degree, Australia, New Zealand, the West in general.
01:35:30.320And so delving into what's happening here and how that might be rectified is a enterprise that might be worthwhile on the international front as well.
01:35:42.640So join us on the Daily Wire side if you're inclined to do that.
01:35:45.920Terry, thank you very much. It was a pleasure.
01:35:52.000And yeah, and I certainly appreciate the article in the Free Press, you know, I've been writing about, what would you say, pathological group conflict for a very long period of time, and it's a terrible thing to see it rear its head in Canada.
01:36:09.420It's a terrible thing, and it's very useful to draw attention to it, and you did that very effectively internationally, and it was very good at Barry to publish it as well.
01:36:18.160And hopefully it'll clue more Canadians into what's going on and into the seriousness of that for the Jews, which is not trivial, as you pointed out, in and of itself, but also as a bellwether for just exactly where we're headed.
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