The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

00:00:00.000 Hello, everyone. It's your favorite president, Donald J. Trump, here to introduce something

00:00:04.300 really special. You're going to love it. My new Trump watches. It's one of the best watches made.

00:00:11.120 Go to GetTrumpWatches.com. It's Trump time. Go to GetTrumpWatches.com now to get your Trump

00:00:19.000 watch before they're gone. Don't miss your chance to own a piece of history. See GetTrumpWatches.com

00:00:25.160 for details. Trump watches are not intended for investment purposes. Hurry. Go now to

00:00:29.480 GetTrumpWatches.com.

00:00:46.640 Hey, everybody. I had a chance today to sit down and speak in person with Terry Glavin, who's one of

00:00:52.900 Canada's premier journalists. And I've been following his work for quite a long time, as

00:00:58.880 has many Canadians. But there was a particular reason for talking to him now, and that was that

00:01:03.980 he penned a piece for Barry Weiss and the Free Press. I've had dealings with Barry, complex dealings

00:01:11.620 with Barry for quite a long time. And I read Terry's piece on the rise of anti-Semitism and all of the

00:01:19.480 associated, what would you say, pathological, political, and quasi-political movements that

00:01:25.040 accompany, by necessity, arise in anti-Semitism. He detailed that out quite extensively in this

00:01:30.780 Free Press article, which is notable not only for its description of a relatively radically

00:01:36.320 transformed Canada on the social front, on the political front, the ethical front, but also because

00:01:44.580 Terry was pointing to a phenomenon, the rise of anti-Semitism in the West in general, after the

00:01:53.640 atrocities of October 7th. And so not only is it a detailed analysis of something particular that's

00:02:00.000 happening in a particular place and country, Canada, it's also a broader description of a

00:02:07.300 movement that threatens the integrity of the West in a fundamental way, much more broadly. And so I was

00:02:14.060 very interested in the article. And when I read it, I thought I should really talk to Terry and maybe to

00:02:19.600 Barry on my podcast. And four hours later, Barry Weiss wrote to me and said, you should talk to Terry

00:02:26.560 Glavin about his recent article. And I thought, well, she thinks so too. And so, well, so we did that.

00:02:33.640 And Terry probably made me more pessimistic about Canada's future than I was, which is really saying

00:02:40.000 something because after nine years of the unmitigated catastrophic disaster of the Trudeau

00:02:46.120 administration, I was already plenty pessimistic, but he detailed out, for example, the pernicious

00:02:51.380 effect of the Chinese Communist Party on the political situation federally in Canada. And I was

00:02:58.080 less cognizant of the depth of that than I was after the podcast. So you can listen and weep if

00:03:04.160 you're a Canadian. But, you know, again, that is also something with international implications,

00:03:08.960 because it's not as if the Chinese are only producing their machinations to the detriment 0.78

00:03:15.520 of the West in Canada. It's a threat to the West in general. And so Canada is a strange canary in the

00:03:22.100 coal mine. We talked about, well, the pro-Hamas protesters in Canada, the absolute devastation of

00:03:29.040 Canadian universities, the terror that Canadian Jews are feeling, tiny minority of Canada's population,

00:03:36.300 much smaller, by the way, than the Muslim population, which is relevant in this instance,

00:03:41.080 given what's happened in Palestine. We talked about, well, our sorrow as older Canadians to see 0.82

00:03:48.960 our country descend into this kind of 1930s-like Kristallnacht demonstrating that characterized

00:03:57.740 Toronto and Montreal and Vancouver and Calgary and things we never saw, never thought would happen

00:04:03.800 in Canada and the threats to Canada's integrity economically, politically, and ethically in

00:04:10.920 general. Terry's Substack is available at The Real Story on the Substack site. And that's something

00:04:17.340 that should be of substantial interest, well, not only to Canadians, but to people in general. So

00:04:21.980 check that out. And, well, welcome to a relatively dismal discussion of the situation in Canada

00:04:31.580 and, by implication, the rest of the West. Well, as you know, I reached out to you for a variety of

00:04:37.660 reasons, but the most compelling, I would say, and immediate was the article that you just wrote in

00:04:42.800 the Free Press, which is, I would say, a rather damning screed, all things considered. And I'm very

00:04:48.380 interested in that particular issue. And I'm very much looking forward to discussing that with you and

00:04:53.980 the sorry state of Canada in general. So maybe you could start by just outlining, well, how,

00:05:00.700 what, what, what article I'm referring to and why you wrote it. And then let's go into the content of

00:05:05.960 the article. Well, it is essentially an investigation of the state of antisemitism in Canada. And I spent

00:05:15.780 quite a bit of time and effort on this, 16 in-depth interviews, maybe another 16, not so in-depth

00:05:22.820 interviews, a lot of research, a lot of time and trouble trying to get this sorted. And I think part of

00:05:32.220 Barry's motivation was that she was sort of vaguely, dimly aware that something very, very unseemly was occurring

00:05:39.100 in Canada. And we, she and I knew one another, we were kind of chummy. And I've covered, I've been

00:05:47.780 sort of interested and concerned about antisemitism for about 20, 25 years now, actually, for reasons we

00:05:54.520 might discuss. And so she said, well, it looks like Glavin's the guy to do this story. So I did this

00:06:01.160 story and it's about 6,700 words long. It's a very deep investigation and it has attracted a heck

00:06:09.880 of a lot of attention. Unfortunately, it doesn't make Canada look very good. I wrote this primarily

00:06:15.240 for an American audience. I found Americans, God bless them, they haven't the faintest idea what's

00:06:21.180 happening in Canada. They have an idea of Canada embedded in their brains and it's really hard to

00:06:26.780 shake them from it. Canada is not the place that you will find in Michael Moore documentaries.

00:06:33.700 Canada is not the place that you'll find in any aspect of American media, actually, particularly

00:06:40.880 over the last 10 years. It's changed.

00:06:44.760 Hmm. Funny coincidence that that wouldn't happen to line up with Trudeau's...

00:06:48.740 Strange how that works, isn't it?

00:06:50.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:51.380 Trudeau's reign, economic catastrophe.

00:06:54.880 Yeah. What is particularly concerning is that Canadian Jews are almost universally disconsolate, 1.00

00:07:08.160 dejected, afraid, alienated, isolated, and they feel very strongly in the main that their government

00:07:20.220 is not protecting them. That this...

00:07:23.940 That's because their government isn't protecting them.

00:07:26.840 Yeah, they might be onto something.

00:07:28.580 They might be, all right.

00:07:30.680 And I think, I mean, for people to understand this phenomenon, this thing that kind of burst

00:07:38.740 into the consciousness of most Canadians on the 8th of October, immediately after the Simchat Torah pogrom,

00:07:48.600 the atrocities undertaken by Hamas in southern Israel at the Supernova Music Festival in the Kibbutzim

00:07:58.800 around the Gaza Envelope, immediately afterwards, the event was celebrated, actually celebrated.

00:08:09.360 And Hamas was praised, and this was characterized as a great act of heroic resistance against the

00:08:17.760 illegitimate colonial settler state of Israel.

00:08:20.800 And we saw this from one end of the country to the other, city after city, day after day, week after week.

00:08:31.460 And what we have seen in the year and a bit since that day, a 670% increase in anti-Semitic incidents.

00:08:42.700 Give or take, it depends on how you add it up.

00:08:45.060 It's, I mean, a lot of Jews don't even bother to call the cops anymore. 1.00

00:08:49.620 There's no point. 0.96

00:08:52.260 We've seen drive-by shootings at Jewish schools.

00:08:55.720 We've seen synagogues firebombed.

00:08:58.300 We've seen one synagogue in Toronto has been attacked half a dozen times in a few weeks.

00:09:04.760 We've seen Jewish businesses smashed, their windows smashed, Jewish neighborhoods, you know, throngs of anti-Zionist protesters in their neighborhoods.

00:09:19.300 Anti-Zionist.

00:09:20.060 Yeah, it's, there is my own, I've come to the conclusion that there's very little distinction that you can draw between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

00:09:31.760 People will have all kinds of complaints about Israel.

00:09:34.840 God bless them.

00:09:35.700 The Israelis do. 0.61

00:09:37.260 All kinds of complaints about their own government.

00:09:40.140 And I think also it is complicated by, since October 7th, the very real deep anguish and suffering that is being endured by the people of Gaza.

00:09:54.720 I think it's very, very, very important to notice this and to be able to talk about it.

00:09:59.720 And one of the things that was really difficult for me to get at in my piece is that that's almost an impossible conversation for ordinary, decent people to have.

00:10:08.280 Because as soon as you begin to discuss various policy prescriptions that might be useful in getting aid and comfort to the suffering of the people of Gaza,

00:10:19.920 it is, the conversation is immediately taken over by a vast constituency of opinion that uses the suffering of Palestinians,

00:10:31.840 sometimes imagined, sometimes imagined, but quite often real, to weaponizing that suffering to the purpose of a deep and fanatical ideological commitment to the destruction of the state of Israel and to driving the Jews into the sea. 0.53

00:10:51.480 So, you know, whether you're a Jew or a Gentile, that conversation is almost impossible to have. 0.99

00:10:58.500 And, yeah, I think, you know, most people associate anti-Semitism, I think, with, you know, sort of skinheads, people who understand their lineage, you know, from the Nazis or whatever.

00:11:19.420 However, that has not been a phenomenon in Canada for a long, long, long time.

00:11:24.340 And there is something that has taken its place.

00:11:29.720 Far and away, anti-Semitism in Canada is what you might call a left-wing phenomenon.

00:11:37.640 Yeah, I want to read something from your article, Kay, that's directly relevant to that.

00:11:43.940 It's from a section called, It Was Like a Dam Burst.

00:11:46.440 And so this is right after October 7th.

00:11:48.940 And these are comments by Robert Krell, who's the former director of postgraduate education in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of British Columbia.

00:11:56.740 The impression that the violence unfolding around them is somehow invisible to the state responsible for their protection has overwhelmed not only relative newcomers to Canada, like Rugeheimer, man, you discussed, but also Jews who have lived in Canada for decades.

00:12:11.560 Then you refer to Robert Krell.

00:12:13.540 And the next section is almost none of these verbal or physical assaults.

00:12:18.920 Okay, so we're talking about repeated demonstrations, for example, all across the country, long-term occupations of university campuses, most particularly at McGill and at the University of Toronto, with like sporadic outbursts at Concordia, which is its own kind of rat hole, and then in a variety of other places across Canada, right?

00:12:37.800 Riots in Montreal as well, downtown demonstrations in Toronto.

00:12:41.280 Almost none of these verbal or physical assaults are coming from white supremacists, very rare breed in Canada, or anti-Semites of the right-wing variety.

00:12:50.180 Now, those people exist.

00:12:51.460 I mean, when I joined forces with the Daily Wire, one of whose lead spokespeople, let's say, is Ben Shapiro, who's probably the most well-known Orthodox Jew, American Orthodox Jew in the world, the right-wing anti-Semites came after me in droves.

00:13:07.860 And they had been doing that for years for a variety of reasons.

00:13:10.300 So those people exist, and they're entirely detestable in 15 different dimensions, but they're not organized in the same manner as these left-wing anti-Semites, and they don't pose anywhere near the danger.

00:13:21.040 And, well, this is what you describe in your article.

00:13:25.040 They are being carried out by self-described progressives, Arabs, and often recent immigrants who are operating inside an ideological framework of settler colonialism,

00:13:36.200 which casts Canada, the U.S., Australia, and most of all Israel, as irredeemably illegitimate constructs of imperialism, capitalism, genocide, and racism.

00:13:50.400 It's an ideology that has found a comfortable home in Trudeau's Canada.

00:13:55.680 Okay, so let's zero in on this a little bit.

00:13:58.640 So I wrote an article about Jewish support for the Democrats about three months ago for a U.K. publication.

00:14:07.720 It was, ha, I tried to publish it at the National Post and at the Telegraph.

00:14:11.940 And they'll usually pretty much take whatever I send them, but they found this one too contentious.

00:14:16.680 That's odd.

00:14:17.920 Yeah, you saw it.

00:14:19.120 No, I say that's odd.

00:14:20.340 Well, there's...

00:14:20.640 When did it appear finally?

00:14:22.620 It appeared in...

00:14:24.040 Oh, let's see.

00:14:27.240 I can't...

00:14:27.860 Okay.

00:14:28.220 You know, it escapes me momentarily.

00:14:29.760 You know what? After you should send it to me.

00:14:30.540 I'll send it to you.

00:14:31.300 But let me just tell you, it's just...

00:14:33.060 Because in the U.S., the support among Jews for the Democrats is very high.

00:14:40.180 Yep.

00:14:40.620 Historically run 75 to 80 percent.

00:14:42.580 Now, you draw some relationships in your article, which I think are very much worth drawing because, I don't know, maybe this took the Jewish liberal community by surprise.

00:14:55.560 But it's completely unsurprising if you understand the progressive ideological agenda that the Palestinians were cast as victims.

00:15:03.580 And if people are going to play out a victim-victimizer narrative, which is a progressive narrative, the Jews are always going to be cast as victim-victimizers because they are overrepresented in positions of authority and preeminence. 0.66

00:15:19.480 Radically so.

00:15:20.420 And now, my interpretation of that is that the competent rise to the top.

00:15:25.740 And there's a variety of reasons for excessive Jewish competence. 0.92

00:15:28.520 And it's marked, for example, in the fact that the Jews have produced an overwhelmingly disproportionate number, let's say, of Nobel laureates. 0.71

00:15:38.600 Right?

00:15:38.940 And so it's a culture that produces...

00:15:42.320 Who knows you better than yourself?

00:15:44.220 Well, if you own a smartphone or computer, there are thousands of companies that know more about you than you realize.

00:15:48.880 They're called data brokers.

00:15:50.680 They make billions tracking everything you do online, what you buy, where you go, who you talk to, even your personal beliefs.

00:15:57.440 Then they sell that information to marketers, activists, and yes, even politicians.

00:16:01.880 That's why we at the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast are proud to partner with ExpressVPN.

00:16:05.960 The way these companies track you is through your IP address.

00:16:08.340 That's the number that identifies you online.

00:16:10.700 ExpressVPN hides your real IP address, encrypts your data, making your internet activity private.

00:16:15.740 So private that not even your internet provider can see it.

00:16:18.500 Which matters because in the U.S., ISPs can legally sell your data to anyone they want.

00:16:23.460 ExpressVPN works on all your devices with just one click.

00:16:26.260 Connect to the closest server automatically or choose from locations in 105 countries around the world to protect your privacy instantly.

00:16:33.140 Right now, you can get three extra months of ExpressVPN for free.

00:16:36.520 Go to expressvpn.com.jordan to learn more.

00:16:39.080 That's expressvpn.com.jordan to reclaim your privacy today.

00:16:48.500 It places tremendous emphasis on intellectual ability, and there's more to it than that.

00:16:55.200 But the alternative hypothesis is that it's a cabal, and it's a cabal that dominates, and it's a worldwide cabal.

00:17:03.500 And if you buy the victimizer-victim narrative, which is key to the progressive agenda, then the Jews are going to be at the top of the list. 0.98

00:17:12.860 The whole diversity, equity, and inclusion phenomenon, there's absolutely no room for the Jews there. 1.00

00:17:20.740 It's impossible to place the Jews. 0.93

00:17:21.460 Well, if the rule is, if your ethnic group is overrepresented statistically, you're an oppressor, then that puts the Jews at the top of the oppressor hierarchy. 0.94

00:17:33.240 Okay, so now, one of the things I'm curious about, and I'd like your thoughts about this, is that I don't exactly understand why the Jewish community didn't see this coming.

00:17:42.360 Because this is a logical consequence of that.

00:17:44.440 What do you mean American Jews?

00:17:46.200 Well, I'm going to talk about Canadian Jews.

00:17:48.340 Things are a little weird in the United States. 0.91

00:17:50.260 And I mean, I think I can understand a lot of the intellectual community, the strata in the United States, you know, finding Donald Trump vulgar and repugnant.

00:17:58.960 And that's why a lot of Jews, I think, didn't vote for him.

00:18:01.580 Yeah, well, I think that's true for many people.

00:18:04.160 Well, they didn't vote for Trump.

00:18:05.860 But it's true.

00:18:07.060 The Israelis, interestingly, supported Trump more than a Kamala Harris presidency.

00:18:16.540 You know, they kind of went, oh, yeah, well, you know, I don't like to admit it, but I hope Trump wins.

00:18:20.540 Well, the Democrats didn't exactly cover themselves in glory with regards to their support for Israel after October 7th.

00:18:26.060 Quite so.

00:18:26.540 So, you know, I think the Israelis understand more clearly, because of necessity, which side their bread is buttered on, let's say.

00:18:33.920 Yeah.

00:18:34.180 But, like, this really is, it's really a pernicious twist, right?

00:18:38.200 Because I do see the victimizer-victim narrative driving this radical increase in left-wing anti-Semitism.

00:18:46.480 And I don't see any way.

00:18:48.540 That's one way of understanding it.

00:18:50.600 I think other people have used the term cultural Marxism, which kind of, you know, it certainly borrows the language of Marxism and borrows the language of the left.

00:18:59.500 But, of course, replaces the proletariat, the working class, is replaced by this kind of, you know, rainbow coalition.

00:19:10.060 Yeah, various dimensions of oppression.

00:19:11.480 Ethnic, racial, and gender subsets and subgroups.

00:19:18.220 Yes, I think, well, I think those are parallel explanations.

00:19:20.880 The other thing I think that's important to understand about anti-Semitism, it's not just like any other prejudice.

00:19:25.360 It's not just another bigotry.

00:19:26.880 It's a conspiracy theory.

00:19:28.680 It's always been a conspiracy theory.

00:19:30.700 And I think a lot of people who perhaps were once Marxists or are informed by the intellectual tradition in Marxism can easily get that wrong,

00:19:49.540 can easily imagine that, you know, the powerful hand of the international bourgeoisie has, you know, their names often end in Stein and Berg.

00:20:03.400 And the next thing you know, you know, it's the Jews are being thrown down wells. 0.75

00:20:08.980 And I think just to understand where we are in Canada particularly, I think it's really necessary to understand the trajectory of the left over the last 25, 30 years.

00:20:22.460 Well, go back a little further.

00:20:24.000 Yes, and also the fact that when you describe the trajectory of the left, you're also now describing the trajectory of the federal liberals, which wouldn't have necessarily been the...

00:20:33.180 Kind of, kind of.

00:20:33.660 ...for the last 10 years?

00:20:35.380 Well, let me, here's how it goes.

00:20:37.160 Okay, lay it out.

00:20:38.980 And with the collapse of the Soviet Union, right, much of the democratic left was perfectly content with this, was very happy about this.

00:20:51.860 With the collapse?

00:20:52.920 Yes.

00:20:53.240 Yes.

00:20:54.440 Much of the democratic left was, or at least resigned to it and confused by it.

00:21:00.560 And then, during the 1990s, the primary iteration of left-wing activism and politics was anti-globalization, showing up with these massive demonstrations at the IMF and the World Bank and the World Economic Forum.

00:21:15.040 And then came 9-1-1, and 9-1-1 was kind of like a blunt trauma wound to everybody's head.

00:21:21.060 Everybody went a little bit weird.

00:21:22.400 It was such a shock.

00:21:24.340 I mean, it was like out of a movie.

00:21:25.640 And some kind of a science fiction movie.

00:21:28.800 And immediately, what happened was, you know, the left's, the iteration of the international left and the activist milieu was cloaked in anti-war activism, right?

00:21:45.160 And it shouldn't have taken much effort on the part of the mass media, unfortunately, and I have to confess as a lifelong journalist, the media was not at all helpful in failing to recognize that this phenomenon that was being presented on the nightly news and on the front pages of the paper as an anti-war movement, they were actually on the other side.

00:22:08.120 They weren't against war.

00:22:09.060 They were on the other side, and at the core of it, at the very, very core of it, whatever you happen to think about Afghanistan or Iraq, at the core of it was anti-Zionism, this thing called anti-Zionism.

00:22:20.880 And that had sort of percolated from the 1970s.

00:22:24.280 A lot of it was informed by Soviet propaganda, but from the United Nations, you know, the Durban Conference, the proposition that Zionism is racism, right?

00:22:36.120 Now, in Canada, the way Erwin Kotler put it to me, I think very well, who, he's kind of my lodestar, I confess.

00:22:45.360 Tell everybody who he is.

00:22:46.800 Well, he's a former Canadian justice minister.

00:22:48.800 He founded the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human Rights, and I'm a senior fellow with the Raoul Wallenberg Centre.

00:22:53.620 And he's beloved of persecuted Democrats the world round, whether it's Hong Kong or Belarus or just about anywhere, Russia.

00:23:09.560 Anyway, the way he put it to me was that in Canada particularly, Canadians are—the United Nations is kind of in our DNA.

00:23:20.420 Right.

00:23:20.940 You know, the way we understand our role in the world, our place in the world, I mean, we were there at the Foundation of Israel.

00:23:27.140 We were there in the crafting of the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights.

00:23:34.060 We were there in all of the protocols and conventions that arose from the ashes of the Shoah.

00:23:39.480 This was a very Canadian thing, and it was something to be proud of.

00:23:42.480 But what we haven't really noticed over the years is the way the United Nations has been taken over by the Organization of the Islamic Congress.

00:23:50.800 It's been taken over by the police state bloc.

00:23:53.720 The last time I looked, I think Beijing was basically in control of seven of the 11 major United Nations agencies.

00:24:00.920 And then you get the United Nations Relief Works Agency, which is this strange, strange organization that keeps alive the prospect that Israel is just a temporary aberration. 0.80

00:24:12.920 And that somehow the massively growing Palestinian refugee population—it's not really a refugee population—will somehow be sorted by the restoration of a Palestinian or an Arab sovereignty in all the places where Israel currently exists.

00:24:35.980 So it's really hard for Canadians to sort of think, hmm, maybe the United Nations—maybe these—are we the baddies, you know?

00:24:43.840 So how do you see that in parallel with the politicization of, like, the pro-Hamas movements in Canada?

00:24:51.800 There's things running in parallel here.

00:24:53.460 We talked about the victim-victimizer narrative.

00:24:55.540 We talked about the—what would you say—the alliance between the progressive left and the claim that Zionism is part of the colonial movement, which includes Canada and the U.S.

00:25:05.300 Now you've introduced Canada's role in the U.N. and our historical allegiance with the U.N.

00:25:09.640 How do you see those tangling together?

00:25:11.740 The way I see those tangling together, if we can think of it in terms of the Liberal Party or the Trudeau Liberals, right?

00:25:19.260 Not the same as a lot of what a lot of people imagine the Liberals to be.

00:25:23.840 Is that this kind of intellectual slovenliness that the sort of blind adherence to United Nations declarations and so on is—and the entire panoply of its, you know, settler colonial—colonial settler state politics.

00:25:52.760 It's diversity, equity, and inclusion politics.

00:25:56.100 I see.

00:25:56.960 So Canada's historical alliance—

00:25:58.540 It becomes susceptible to it.

00:25:59.960 It's just there's no way that it can defend itself against a virulent, lurid, blood-curdling, anti-Semitic, anti-Semitic.

00:26:14.880 Okay, so let me summarize that and tell me if I've got it right.

00:26:17.720 So we've seen the rise of this progressive insistence that projects like Canada and the United States, et cetera, and Israel are part of this colonial capitalist oppressive enterprise.

00:26:29.280 Now that's permeated Canadian society to some degree, but it's also permeated the U.N.

00:26:33.820 And Canada has been historically aligned with the U.N., and our foreign policy has been determined by that alliance for a very long time.

00:26:42.560 Well, influenced then, if not determined, influenced.

00:26:45.580 And that was a matter of pride in Canada when the U.N. was quasi-functional organization, let's say.

00:26:50.820 But so you see the emergence of that post-Soviet Union Marxist-inspired colonial rhetoric in the U.N. and in Canada.

00:27:02.260 And the fact that Canada's been allied with the U.N. has also shaped our foreign policy in a rather unthinking manner, especially under Trudeau, who has no—what would you say?

00:27:12.960 Has what?

00:27:13.760 No knowledge?

00:27:14.760 No imagination for—like, how do you explain—

00:27:19.360 Here's Trudeau.

00:27:20.020 Here's Trudeau.

00:27:20.640 Here's the thing about Trudeau.

00:27:21.600 Yeah.

00:27:23.720 There's really not much there.

00:27:25.620 I hate to be uncharitable.

00:27:27.520 I think it's time to be uncharitable.

00:27:29.320 Okay.

00:27:30.100 Well, there really isn't much there.

00:27:32.400 He's—I think you've been very interested in the phenomenon of narcissism.

00:27:38.280 Hmm.

00:27:39.120 There you go.

00:27:40.080 Well, let me—

00:27:40.880 The world is a vanity mirror.

00:27:44.180 And you have to remember, when he came along, it sort of parallels the rise of Trump in the United States, right?

00:27:50.220 When he was first elected.

00:27:52.660 Just a few months from the election of Donald Trump.

00:27:55.300 And Donald Trump, you know, said all these scary things about Muslims.

00:27:58.880 And then Justin Trudeau, you know, tweets, well, everybody's welcome to Canada.

00:28:04.480 It doesn't matter.

00:28:04.960 You can be a Muslim.

00:28:05.700 We love you.

00:28:06.600 The next thing you know, he's on the front page of the Rolling Stone magazine.

00:28:10.360 He's the toast of, you know, Vogue photo shoots.

00:28:14.200 Consider it.

00:28:14.620 He's the leader of the free world.

00:28:17.420 He was the poster boy for the—he is the poster boy for the progressive movement internationally, I would say.

00:28:23.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:23.820 And he is the—well, and the narcissism element, you know, you talked about him to some degree as an empty drum, let's say.

00:28:30.920 And I have made reference to him as a narcissist.

00:28:34.040 I mean, my observation in that regard was driven by the manner in which he adopted the leadership of the Liberal Party.

00:28:41.560 Because I felt at the—and I'd like your opinion about this.

00:28:45.420 When he emerged, I thought I kind of had two—I was of two opinions, right?

00:28:51.200 People went to him and made the case that he would be a credible and popular leader of the Liberals, not least because of his name brand recognition.

00:29:00.760 And I can imagine being in that position, let's say, and thinking, okay, this is a risky enterprise because I don't have the CV that would indicate that I'm capable of running a G7 country.

00:29:13.600 But if I don't run, then the conservatives, who were my father's foes, let's say, and aren't aligned with me politically, have a really good crack at victory.

00:29:24.640 And if I put my name forward, maybe we can forestall that.

00:29:27.720 And then maybe I could put my nose to the grindstone, and I could learn—I could surround myself with, like, high-level experts, and I could learn to play the part if I, you know, if I was open to that kind of learning.

00:29:39.980 Like, okay, that's an unlikely scenario, that one.

00:29:44.180 But he did, in fact, adopt it.

00:29:46.680 But he didn't do any of that, right?

00:29:48.520 He didn't.

00:29:48.760 Well, what we—I think a lot of people, I, you know, he's not my cup of tea, but a lot of people were really swept.

00:29:56.780 He was sort of like this matinee idol.

00:29:58.520 You know, a lot of people got caught up in that.

00:30:00.520 Yes, well, he's charming, and he's elegant, and he's good-looking, and he knows how to behave in public, and he's got an easy smile.

00:30:08.020 And women find him essentially irresistible.

00:30:11.680 Very photogenic, very charming, as you say.

00:30:13.860 Very, very well.

00:30:14.400 And he's been in that milieu his whole life, and he's been groomed for that.

00:30:18.080 But as far as the intellectual milieu, if there was such a thing, around his emergence, well, I mean, everybody was willing to give him a chance.

00:30:29.600 I was willing to give him a chance.

00:30:30.900 I remember speaking to him back when he was running for office, running for, you know, in the election, that period.

00:30:41.700 And I was definitely willing to give him a shot, you know.

00:30:45.360 Why?

00:30:46.240 Well, we spoke a lot about Syria.

00:30:48.300 Yeah.

00:30:48.580 And I have many friends and comrades who are associated with the Syrian revolutionary movement.

00:30:56.020 And what the NATO countries, what was being asked of the NATO countries at the time was a no-fly zone over Syria.

00:31:01.700 All we need is one NATO country to say, yes, we need to do this, because the Americans couldn't really understand what was going on.

00:31:09.240 And everyone hoped that it might be Trudeau who said, yeah, I'm in.

00:31:13.280 And he did give me, and of course, there was the whole Syrian refugee issue, and he did try to, he made a lot of capital, political capital out of that.

00:31:24.400 We can come to that in a moment.

00:31:26.000 But to understand who he represents and what he's all about, you have to wind the clock back further.

00:31:35.000 You remember when Michael Ignatieff was briefly the leader of the Liberal Party.

00:31:38.720 Tell that story for the big news.

00:31:40.040 Well, he's a very smart guy, Michael Ignatieff.

00:31:42.160 He was a Harvard professor at the time when they invited him back to Canada.

00:31:46.100 He'd been down in Massachusetts for like 20 years, something like that.

00:31:49.740 Yeah, and a lot of people said, well, you're not really a Canadian.

00:31:52.100 Yeah.

00:31:52.520 He'd been out for quite a while.

00:31:54.160 So anyway, I mean, I...

00:31:55.220 He was an intellectual heavyweight.

00:31:56.560 Yeah, he was actually.

00:31:57.640 I like Michael Ignatieff.

00:31:59.360 I mean, just as an intellectual.

00:32:02.100 Well, he's certainly much more credible as a leader of a G7 country than Justin Trudeau, at least on the basis of his...

00:32:08.160 Basically, you know, it's so difficult to explain this to people from away.

00:32:12.420 You know, if you can imagine a kind of, oh, I don't know, a TikTok account run by a, you know, a 19-year-old college girl in charge of a G7 country.

00:32:30.160 That's basically...

00:32:30.780 14-year-old.

00:32:31.640 Okay.

00:32:32.440 But anyway, okay, so he emerges.

00:32:34.660 How does he present himself to the Liberal Party as a worthwhile leader of the party?

00:32:46.900 And for this, he turned to McKinsey & Associates.

00:32:51.920 Consulting firm.

00:32:53.160 Massive global consulting firm.

00:32:55.440 The apologist for dictators everywhere.

00:33:00.160 I think, I don't know how many billions of dollars they've had to pay out in lawsuits for boosting OxyContin sales in the United States.

00:33:09.780 A fellow by the name of Dominic Barton, who happened to be a Canadian, who spent half his life in China as the head of McKinsey.

00:33:17.100 Basically, Trudeau brought him in and essentially to add gravitas to his candidacy for the Liberal Party.

00:33:26.540 Under whose advisement did he bring in McKinsey?

00:33:28.760 Do you know?

00:33:29.200 Like, was that his idea?

00:33:30.380 I don't imagine.

00:33:31.540 Well, it is a small town.

00:33:34.220 It is a small town.

00:33:35.040 Yes.

00:33:35.580 You know what I mean?

00:33:36.340 Ottawa.

00:33:37.020 It was, he was essentially a function of the Canada-China Business Council.

00:33:41.880 This Christmas, as we celebrate the gift of life, you have an opportunity to share the same gift with a mother and her baby.

00:33:48.760 Imagine a young woman facing an unplanned pregnancy, feeling alone and unsure of what to do.

00:33:52.980 She's searching for hope.

00:33:54.200 And that's where Preborn Ministries comes in.

00:33:56.180 Deanna already had eight children and was in a tumultuous marriage. 0.99

00:33:59.240 The thought of another child was more than she could bear.

00:34:01.840 She tried to order the abortion pill, but by God's design, it never came.

00:34:05.260 At 18 weeks along, Deanna visited a preborn network clinic.

00:34:08.280 While getting her sonogram, her baby waved at her.

00:34:10.620 Then she remembered that this was the baby that she had asked God for.

00:34:13.740 God saved her baby that day, and he also saved her.

00:34:16.320 This Christmas, for just $28, you can help save life.

00:34:19.920 And thanks to a special matching grant, your gift is doubled.

00:34:22.520 Just $28 provides one ultrasound.

00:34:24.900 140 sponsors five.

00:34:26.260 That means your 140 gift becomes 280, potentially helping 10 mothers and their unborn children.

00:34:31.120 To support this vital work, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby.

00:34:34.740 That's pound 250, keyword baby.

00:34:36.700 Or visit preborn.com slash Jordan.

00:34:38.780 Preborn maintains a four-star charity rating, and all gifts are tax deductible.

00:34:42.960 Join us in supporting this crucial work.

00:34:44.760 Visit preborn.com slash Jordan today.

00:34:46.960 This isn't a really important thing for people to understand.

00:34:52.940 His entire campaign was built around the proposition, and this is how he sort of lent gravitas to himself, that the key to the future is China.

00:35:02.980 Canada's future is China. 0.97

00:35:04.940 The middle class prosperity is all about China, China, China. 0.99

00:35:08.040 And this immediately, you know, he immediately accrued to himself a lot of money and a lot of power and a lot of help.

00:35:16.440 The Desmarais Corporation, the power corporation in Montreal, those whole circles.

00:35:22.120 And of course, his father, people don't like to talk about this when they talk about Pierre Trudeau, but he was probably the most important propaganda asset for the Chinese Communist Party during the Maoist period in the English-speaking world.

00:35:36.480 That's nothing.

00:35:37.520 It was just the Chinese communists.

00:35:39.160 Yeah. 0.83

00:35:39.660 You know, what'd they kill?

00:35:40.560 A hundred million people.

00:35:41.400 Exactly.

00:35:42.060 Yeah.

00:35:42.200 So, you know, and Trudeau would trade in this and say, well, you know, they know me in China, you know, like my family name.

00:35:48.940 And a lot of that was sort of glossed over.

00:35:51.860 People didn't notice what was going on.

00:35:53.560 Well, people were optimistic about the...

00:35:54.880 Because he was so glamorous, right?

00:35:56.500 Well, we were also optimistic, I think, in the West for a reasonable amount of time that if China integrated itself into the Western economy, that they would liberalize across time.

00:36:05.000 Some of us were.

00:36:05.700 Well, it was a case you could put forward if you were aware with all due caution of the potential risks, right?

00:36:14.960 Yeah, that's what I'm told.

00:36:16.660 Maybe it's the company...

00:36:17.760 I'm trying to give the devil his due here.

00:36:20.560 Well, all I can tell you is that, you know, two things happened in 2001.

00:36:25.980 What happened, the atrocities in New York and Washington, the Al-Qaeda atrocities.

00:36:31.980 And the moment that the West put a knife to its own throat, only three months later, by admitting China into the World Trade Organization. 0.72

00:36:42.620 This is a massive event.

00:36:46.580 And, I mean, I think there were a lot of people of good faith who imagined that the more China modernized and became capitalist...

00:36:54.340 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:54.840 ...they'd become more like us. 0.99

00:36:56.940 People who understood China knew this was rubbish. 0.98

00:36:59.520 It was not going to happen. 0.77

00:37:00.540 Okay, so now we've got three things operating here.

00:37:03.680 We've got the rise of this kind of neo-marxism, we've got the UN influence, and now we have the China nexus, right? 0.97

00:37:11.480 This is all shaping what's happening in Canada.

00:37:13.700 Yeah, okay, and, I mean, anybody who's followed Canadian politics at all in the last five years will be aware of the scandals associated with the intimacies between the Trudeau liberals and the United Front Work Department of the Chinese Communist Party and the Organization Department of the Politburo of the Chinese Communist Party.

00:37:36.880 The manipulation and monkey-wrenching of elections in 2019 and 2021.

00:37:43.280 Yeah, we still don't know the full extent of that.

00:37:44.840 Yeah, the whole commission has yet to report, you know, sort of report.

00:37:48.180 Right, and there's background rumours about a number of liberal MPs being unduly influenced on the financial side.

00:37:54.920 Well, more than background rumours.

00:37:57.000 One of the things that's difficult for people to grasp is that, you know, a lot of people ask me, my goodness, the Chinese must have something on.

00:38:06.880 Justin Trudeau.

00:38:07.820 Mm-hmm.

00:38:08.800 Some compromise.

00:38:09.880 Mm-hmm.

00:38:11.100 He doesn't see anything wrong with it.

00:38:13.400 Yes, well, that was evident in many of his pre-election audiences.

00:38:16.400 You know, if you take all the crazy things, well, I don't know, some of the things that the Democrats are saying about Trump and Russia were not crazy.

00:38:23.500 But if you take all the extreme accusations that the Democrats were making about Trump's associations with the Kremlin in the 2015 election, yeah.

00:38:36.780 Multiply that by 10, and you have, in the real world, Justin Trudeau's collusions and complicity with the Chinese Communist Party.

00:38:50.300 In the open, by the way.

00:38:52.920 And this is the thing.

00:38:54.840 To understand Justin Trudeau, you have to understand he sees nothing wrong with this.

00:39:00.400 When he got elected, immediately after he got elected, in the first election, he sat down with a reporter from the New York Times and said, this is what basically Canada is.

00:39:11.000 He saw a post-national state.

00:39:14.440 With no identity.

00:39:15.660 No core identity, no mainstream.

00:39:18.840 And immediately, the question should have turned to, I remember talking to Jerry Butts about this, his sort of principal advisor, because we used to be quite chummy.

00:39:26.900 And, you know, John Ralston Saul.

00:39:29.080 Jerry doesn't take much of me.

00:39:30.640 He doesn't like me either.

00:39:31.580 Ah, okay.

00:39:32.600 You know, John Ralston Saul, the philosopher, he wrote this concept of Canada as a post-modern state.

00:39:40.760 And it was kind of a nuanced, interesting philosophical, whatever.

00:39:43.260 And I remember talking to Jerry, I said, kind of, Trudeau kind of got that wrong.

00:39:46.940 I mean, wasn't he kind of channeling John Ralston Saul?

00:39:49.840 He said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:39:51.420 He meant it, post-national.

00:39:53.540 And so here's the question.

00:39:54.640 How do you do nationalists?

00:39:55.240 Where do you get that idea?

00:39:56.660 Like Trudeau?

00:39:57.980 Because, first of all, it's an idea.

00:39:59.580 So it's surprising he had it at all.

00:40:00.940 Well, if you hang around with the Canada-China Business Council long enough, if you enthusiastically support, for instance, the largest overseas acquisition in the history of the People's Republic of China, the, you know, CNOX acquisition of Nexon.

00:40:19.440 Flesh that out a little bit.

00:40:20.620 Well, yeah, it was at a time when, just before Justin Trudeau was elected, when the Chinese Communist Party was buying up all the major, really key strategic sort of spigot points in the oil patch in Alberta. 0.73

00:40:32.940 And the Harper government, the cabinet, was terribly divided about this.

00:40:37.880 And eventually the good guys won.

00:40:42.860 The people I consider the good guys won.

00:40:44.340 Harper said, okay, that's it.

00:40:45.660 You know, sure, it's a lot of money, they're offering us twice the share value for every purchase they're making, but no, we do not want Canada's energy sector to be owned by the organization department of the Politburo.

00:40:58.300 Probably better than that than Stephen Grilbo.

00:41:02.460 Anyway, where were we?

00:41:04.580 Okay, well, we're weaving a web here.

00:41:07.460 Oh, yeah, the post-national stuff.

00:41:09.760 This is really key.

00:41:10.840 Yep.

00:41:10.980 How do you do national security in a post-national state?

00:41:16.560 What does it even mean?

00:41:20.300 That's, you see, I don't think they really thought this through.

00:41:24.120 That's a fair assumption.

00:41:25.020 What are Canada's national interests if we're a post-national country?

00:41:30.120 Yeah, well, there's no national interest by definition.

00:41:32.420 There's this kind of, and as I say, I don't know that I want to describe it as an ideology.

00:41:37.040 It's kind of like an ideational package.

00:41:39.440 This notion that Canada is this racist, colonial, settler state that has engaged in genocide after genocide against its indigenous peoples, and we're the liberals, and we're the nice ones.

00:41:56.360 Mm-hmm.

00:41:56.580 And so that's essentially what Trudeau was all about, and I think, you know, there's an adage that what starts with the Jews doesn't end with the Jews.

00:42:06.820 Yeah.

00:42:07.200 Yeah, definitely.

00:42:08.160 They're the canaries in the coal mine.

00:42:09.720 They are, and that's very true.

00:42:11.580 That's very true, and I don't want to dispute that, and I don't want what I'm about to say as a contradiction of that.

00:42:20.340 Mm-hmm.

00:42:21.780 My personal view is that if it did end with the Jews, it would still be evil. 1.00

00:42:26.840 Yeah. 0.60

00:42:27.180 So big deal, kind of a deal.

00:42:29.140 A lot of people always put it this way, you know, first they come for the Saturday people, and then they'll come for the Sunday people.

00:42:33.960 Right, right, yeah.

00:42:34.900 The candidate happened the other way around.

00:42:37.580 Mm-hmm.

00:42:37.900 It happened on the weekend of May 29th, yeah, May 29th, 2021, when Justin Trudeau lowered the flag on Parliament Hill, and on the Monday ordered the flag lowered on all federal buildings across the country, owing to a report out of Kamloops about the discovery of a mass grave.

00:42:59.500 Mm-hmm.

00:42:59.740 And on the Tuesday, the chief of the Kamloops First Nation said, well, actually, we didn't say mass grave, but the flag stayed down.

00:43:11.620 The flags were at half-mast.

00:43:14.500 For how long?

00:43:15.700 Like six months?

00:43:16.440 Seven months, I think it was.

00:43:17.400 It was unbelievable.

00:43:18.500 And the people who, God bless them, who managed to get them back up again were the Mohawks. 1.00

00:43:22.900 Thank God for the Mohawks.

00:43:24.500 Oh, I didn't know that twist on the story.

00:43:26.540 Yeah.

00:43:26.900 They said, look, you know, we have a lot of people who are veterans, and we lower our flags on the 11th of November, and also on Aboriginal Veterans Day.

00:43:36.640 So how the hell are we going to lower the flags if they're already lowered?

00:43:39.600 Do something about it.

00:43:40.280 So how do you understand the relationship between, okay, so now we have a lot of balls in the air.

00:43:46.620 We have the post-national state.

00:43:49.000 We have the idea of the colonialist state.

00:43:51.900 We have the, like, the perversion of the UN.

00:43:54.820 Then we have the rise of neo-Marxism in Canada.

00:43:58.760 We have the pernicious influence of the Chinese communists on Trudeau's campaign and his worldview right from the beginning, stemming from his father. 0.97

00:44:08.240 Okay.

00:44:08.500 So now we have to take all that.

00:44:10.540 We have to tie it back to this rise in anti-Semitism.

00:44:13.720 Now, the nexus there, at least in part, is the colonial, the ideology of colonialist state.

00:44:19.600 Okay, I think you can wrap it up this way.

00:44:21.480 This strange thing that we've just described, right?

00:44:23.520 A lot of people talk about woke politics or whatever.

00:44:28.540 It's not wicked because it's anti-Semitic.

00:44:34.240 It's anti-Semitic because it's wicked. 0.97

00:44:38.920 Yeah.

00:44:39.340 It has nowhere else to go.

00:44:42.040 This is what history—

00:44:42.840 So why draw that distinction?

00:44:44.000 This is what history—because this is what history tells us about the agony of the Jews.

00:44:50.320 And I really wish we had been able to kind of emerge from this.

00:44:55.800 Everybody loves dead Jews. 1.00

00:44:57.140 Everyone wants them to cry.

00:44:58.160 Oh, you know, isn't it sad?

00:44:59.660 But God forbid they should stand up on their own two feet and say, actually, no, we're restoring Jewish sovereignty in our ancient homeland.

00:45:08.340 And you will not take that tone with us anymore, thank you very much.

00:45:11.860 Mm-hmm.

00:45:13.380 You know, everybody would prefer to sort of be like, you know, sing Pete Seeger songs and pat Jews on the head. 0.99

00:45:21.060 When Jews say, actually, no, we're—I mean, thanks for the help, but we're going to stand up for ourselves.

00:45:27.160 This is what a lot of people on the left could not abide when the Jews began to get saucy in this way. 1.00

00:45:34.300 And interestingly, this is very tied into the way the sort of Trudeau liberals understand indigenous people in Canada.

00:45:45.040 And it's tied into the whole sort of from Turtle Island to Palestine that you keep hearing in the activist milieu.

00:45:52.820 Mm-hmm.

00:45:53.280 Turtle Island being the name for Canada.

00:45:55.380 Well, it was actually a white guy who came up with that.

00:45:58.520 Yes, I'm sure that it has, like, nothing to do with indigenous.

00:46:01.300 It was Gary Snyder.

00:46:02.520 He was a poet in Chicago, I think.

00:46:04.240 Anyway, I mean, there is some vague reference that can be drawn to, I think, an Anishinaabe creation myth, but whatever.

00:46:10.840 I think it is a bowdlerization of the magnificent cultural diversity of indigenous peoples in this country, which we could talk about because you live in an interesting place. 1.00

00:46:24.320 So we're filming this in a very interesting place. 0.99

00:46:29.140 But the idea that if indigenous people would stand up and say, actually, okay, this whole territory, as far as the eye can see, you idiots, you never signed a treaty with us. 0.99

00:46:41.440 We still own the land under British and Canadian constitutional law. 1.00

00:46:46.580 Aboriginal title is enforceable.

00:46:49.180 And we're going to start acting like we own the place.

00:46:52.200 You better deal with us.

00:46:53.260 You're not going to chop down all our trees and ship them off to China.

00:46:57.120 Thank you very much.

00:46:58.460 You're going to leave a lot of the wealth in the countryside with all our white neighbors. 1.00

00:47:03.460 We're going to work in sawmills.

00:47:04.580 We're going to produce wealth from this territory.

00:47:07.540 People like Justin Trudeau's liberals do not want to hear this.

00:47:11.500 They would rather come to you and say, oh, yes, would you like a wellness center?

00:47:16.700 You know, stroke you on the back.

00:47:18.100 Oh, you put your, you know, victims, your survivors.

00:47:20.320 And by the way, here's $380 million to busy yourself rummaging around in graveyards for the next 10 years.

00:47:29.200 This is, I think, really important to understand about this phenomenon.

00:47:34.580 It is a kind of liberal racism, a liberal racism of low expectations.

00:47:41.060 So there's all that.

00:47:44.300 But there's also the fact that there's now 1.8 million Muslims in the country.

00:47:48.900 Right, because we need another dimension of complexity.

00:47:51.240 And I don't want to, you know, it's very, this is really fighting words for me.

00:47:55.420 Because, you know, a lot of my friends are Muslims and Arabs and my compatriots.

00:47:59.900 Are you tired of feeling sluggish, run down, or just not your best self?

00:48:04.800 Take control of your health and vitality today with Balance of Nature.

00:48:08.040 With Balance of Nature, there's never been a more convenient dietary supplement to ensure you get a wide variety of fruits and vegetables every day.

00:48:14.600 Balance of Nature takes fruits and vegetables, they freeze dry them, turn them into a powder, and then they put them into a capsule.

00:48:20.360 The capsules are completely void of additives, fillers, extracts, synthetics, pesticides, or added sugar.

00:48:25.520 The only thing in Balance of Nature, fruit and veggie capsules are fruits and veggies.

00:48:29.840 Right now, you can order with promo code JORDAN to get 35% off your first order, plus get a free bottle of fiber and spice.

00:48:35.980 Experience Balance of Nature for yourself today.

00:48:38.520 Go to balanceofnature.com and use promo code JORDAN for 35% off your first order as a preferred customer, plus get a free bottle of fiber and spice.

00:48:45.940 That's balanceofnature.com, promo code JORDAN for 35% off your first preferred order, plus a free bottle of fiber and spice.

00:48:52.600 My circle.

00:48:56.700 And we have to be very, very, very careful about the way we talk about this.

00:49:00.500 But the reality of it is that when you have this notion of Canada, this, you know, this...

00:49:10.680 Multicultural.

00:49:11.520 Yeah, this multiplicity of diversities and so on.

00:49:15.640 What you find is that there are certain organizations and institutions in this country that are very well financed and resourced by the federal government and are intended to speak on behalf of, for instance, Canadian Muslims.

00:49:32.340 One of them is the Muslim Association of Canada, which is explicitly devoted to the theology of Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, the fountainhead of Islamism, who was a collaborator with and a philosophical fellow traveler with Adolf Hitler.

00:49:53.420 So this is a bit of a problem, you know?

00:49:56.740 I mean, this is not going to work out well in the long run.

00:50:00.920 And there's only 350,000 Jews.

00:50:03.880 Right, right, right.

00:50:05.820 It's a small town.

00:50:06.680 Wasn't it Melanie Jolie who commented that people have to pay attention to the ethnic makeup of her writing?

00:50:12.020 Yeah.

00:50:12.560 Like Thomas Mulcair, who's kind of an old-fashioned social Democrat.

00:50:17.000 You know, somebody who speaks the same language I speak, quite frankly.

00:50:19.920 Former leader of the Federal National Democrats, the Socialist Party in Canada.

00:50:24.600 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:25.500 And he said, you know, this, Canada's position on Israel is incomprehensible.

00:50:31.280 You insist, because you need to, that Israel has a right to defend itself. 0.67

00:50:35.920 And yet you will refuse to send any munitions to Israel or anything at all that might be used as a part of an airplane that might be in the Israeli Air Force.

00:50:52.620 And she went so far as to, I think it was General Dynamics as a plant in Quebec.

00:50:57.560 So it's actually American material going to Israel.

00:51:04.540 And she said, no, we're not going to issue an export permit for that either.

00:51:08.500 So Israel has a right to defend itself, but Israel is not allowed to have the means to defend itself. 0.84

00:51:15.040 So Mulcair says, this is incomprehensible.

00:51:18.200 It's just gobbledygooks, mumbo-jumbo.

00:51:21.200 So, you know, talking to Melanesia O'Leary, Foreign Affairs Minister.

00:51:25.540 And her response was, Thomas, have you seen the demographics of my writing?

00:51:29.140 Yeah, right.

00:51:30.360 And I have, actually.

00:51:31.460 A stunning response.

00:51:31.980 Yeah.

00:51:32.240 A stunning, amazing she would say that.

00:51:34.420 Yeah.

00:51:34.800 You know, I mean, first of all, it's reprehensible that that's the case.

00:51:37.900 But the fact that she would be so blatant as to say it is really quite the miracle.

00:51:43.240 And if you look at the Democrats of her writing, or it's probably the demographics of her writing, Ahantzik Karshaville, the immigration into that writing has been off the charts.

00:51:56.460 I mean, immigration into the country has been off the charts.

00:51:59.320 Right.

00:51:59.660 To add another dimension of complexity as well.

00:52:03.400 Yeah.

00:52:03.660 And we should talk about Paul Yev.

00:52:05.080 Because when we're talking about Trudeau, we really are talking about a dead man walking.

00:52:09.220 Yesterday, his government almost collapsed.

00:52:11.140 Yes, he's done that a number of times without him actually disappearing.

00:52:15.000 No, I understand.

00:52:16.020 Wow.

00:52:16.280 I understand.

00:52:16.820 For everybody watching and listening, his deputy prime minister resigned yesterday, also his minister of finance.

00:52:21.980 And like the fifth powerful woman, so to speak, in his feminist cabinet that has had to abscond because, well, for a variety of reasons. 0.99

00:52:33.200 Yeah.

00:52:33.480 One of them apparently being that Justin Trudeau finds it impossible to deal with women who have anything approximating their own opinions. 0.98

00:52:41.520 And just for fun, her replacement, Dominic LeBlanc, used to be Trudeau's babysitter.

00:52:50.280 Now, just imagine if Donald Trump appointed his babysitter as the Secretary of the Treasury.

00:52:54.640 The Yanks would have a lot of fun with that. 0.96

00:52:57.480 You don't think being Trudeau's babysitter qualifies him to be finance minister of a G7?

00:53:03.000 Just wondering, just wondering.

00:53:05.240 I don't know.

00:53:05.960 Yeah.

00:53:06.200 Well, that also speaks to this weird—we could throw this into the mix, too.

00:53:10.840 I don't know what you think about this.

00:53:12.060 But it seems to me as well that the way that Canada is constituted, especially with its emphasis on bilingualism, that it dooms the entire country to domination by the 13% of French-Canadian bilingualism.

00:53:25.600 What is it in Canada?

00:53:27.000 Here's the thing, the other thing that Americans have to understand, is that Canada is a bilingual, constitutional monarchy, one of the most decentralized federal systems on Earth,

00:53:43.420 that is thinly populated and spread out across the top of the most dynamic cultural phenomenon in the history of nation-states.

00:53:57.580 So the role of a Canadian prime minister has always been to unite the country, to keep—you know, the role of federal policy has always been to allow Canadians to have a conversation amongst themselves.

00:54:11.880 It's why we fund the CBC and the Canadian Council for the Arts and what have you.

00:54:17.360 And it's a difficult thing to do because we are very, very culturally diverse.

00:54:23.200 I mean, in every traditional sense of the word, the French-speaking people of Quebec, the Poulain Quebecers, are a nation in every conventional sense of the word.

00:54:36.360 And Canada is, well, yeah, I guess we're kind of a nation, but it's complicated.

00:54:41.320 I mean, it is vastly complicated, and it's a huge landscape.

00:54:46.740 So the function of a prime minister has to be to unite the country.

00:54:52.040 Yes, under something approximating a national identity.

00:54:54.600 That's right.

00:54:55.060 Which sort of dispensed with immediately.

00:54:56.980 Something that when push comes to shove, it's possible that we might be able to muster fire in the belly.

00:55:02.240 Right, right.

00:55:02.840 About the defense of this country.

00:55:03.580 Or maybe even just the desire to keep the country together and functioning.

00:55:07.520 Quite so.

00:55:07.980 If we couldn't go all the way out for passion.

00:55:09.880 And so the other thing about Trudeau is that it's complete rejection of that.

00:55:14.320 A complete reversal of that.

00:55:16.400 It's just like, meh, we're a post-national country.

00:55:19.200 And immigration, fine.

00:55:20.780 You want to come in?

00:55:21.480 Yes.

00:55:22.240 You know, Dominic Barton, who ended up being our ambassador to China, the guy who came from China's McKinsey and Associates,

00:55:30.020 and who crafted Trudeau's campaign material at the very, very, very beginning of his rise to politics,

00:55:41.000 says, yeah, we should actually have about a half a million people coming into Canada every year.

00:55:46.820 We should aim for a hundred million.

00:55:48.040 We should at least double our population, you know, in the next generation or two.

00:55:52.620 Well, we've had more than half a million coming in.

00:55:54.720 Yes, we have.

00:55:55.420 Yeah, by a substantial number.

00:55:56.900 We don't know how many people live in this country, Jordan.

00:55:59.560 Yeah.

00:56:00.440 We know from a recent census, it's about 41 million.

00:56:06.320 But on top of that, we have, well, for instance, over the next 12 months,

00:56:13.180 5 million people who live in Canada on various kinds of temporary permits and so on.

00:56:18.940 So it's one-eighth of the population.

00:56:20.540 Within the next 12 months, those permits expire.

00:56:23.100 Then there's another, between 50,000 and 500,000, according to the official guess of the Immigration and Refugees and Citizenship Department,

00:56:35.700 who are what they call out-of-contract workers, which are undocumented workers.

00:56:40.500 Now, for Americans to hear these numbers, you know, America's 10 times as many people as 10 times as populous.

00:56:46.880 So, you know, just do the math, right?

00:56:49.460 If there's 5 million, if there are 50 million Americans or people living in the United States whose temporary permits expire within the next 12 months

00:56:58.640 and who have all given every impression that they do not intend to leave.

00:57:03.860 Yes.

00:57:04.180 Why would they leave?

00:57:05.000 So, Pierre Polyev's coming along, right?

00:57:08.600 Yep.

00:57:09.280 And the interesting thing about Pierre Polyev, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, about language.

00:57:13.280 I mean, is this liberal or, you know, what the hell?

00:57:15.980 Pierre Polyev, when he talks about housing, when he talks about employment, when he talks about access to health care,

00:57:23.280 when he talks about wages, he's Bernie Sanders.

00:57:28.540 Americans have to understand this.

00:57:30.580 Try to imagine Bernie Sanders.

00:57:32.120 I mean, he, and also the trade union vote has gone to...

00:57:38.980 The conservatives.

00:57:39.680 The conservatives.

00:57:40.240 Yeah.

00:57:40.520 This has never happened before.

00:57:42.080 Yeah.

00:57:42.440 The working class vote has gone to Pierre Polyev.

00:57:46.180 I don't know.

00:57:47.140 I mean, I'm not a partisan conservative.

00:57:48.480 I don't know if I've ever written a conservative sentence in my life, by the way, although most of my friends seem to be conservatives.

00:57:53.160 I don't know how that happens.

00:57:54.420 Well, the whole world's upside down.

00:57:56.360 Yeah.

00:57:56.460 So that's not surprising. 0.74

00:57:57.280 So what the hell...

00:57:58.120 Whatever the classic political distinctions were 15 years ago, they're...

00:58:02.100 Whatever they are now, bears no relationship with what they were 15 years ago.

00:58:06.160 So my great fear, and I'll close with this, and you can challenge me.

00:58:10.420 Tell me I'm wrong, or if you like, whatever.

00:58:13.000 You can argue.

00:58:13.560 I think we've got about a year or two before everything starts to come unglued.

00:58:22.120 And I'm very worried about this.

00:58:23.940 I've always been an optimist.

00:58:25.560 I've been an inveterate optimist.

00:58:27.160 But I actually haven't seen in Polyev a degree of sophistication in comprehending the nature and the scope of what he's going to be facing when he takes it.

00:58:40.540 Well, I don't know if he can comprehend it.

00:58:43.180 I mean, I regard myself as a moderately sophisticated political observer, and you've made me more pessimistic today.

00:58:52.900 Sorry.

00:58:53.400 Well, I was already very concerned about the state of Canada because I think that...

00:58:59.420 Well, I'll give you an example, and you probably know this already.

00:59:02.480 But before Justin took office, GDP per capita in Canada was approximately at parity with the U.S.

00:59:12.340 Okay, now our richest province, Ontario, the inhabitants of our richest province by per capita GDP are poorer than the average inhabitant of Mississippi.

00:59:24.480 I thought it was Alabama.

00:59:25.800 It was Mississippi.

00:59:27.280 Same thing.

00:59:27.700 Last thing, the people in our richest province are poorer than the people in the U.S. poorest state, right?

00:59:35.880 That's a nine-year decline.

00:59:37.480 It's an absolute bloody catastrophe.

00:59:39.600 And we know Trudeau just announced a $62 billion deficit yesterday, which was $22 billion higher than the pessimistic estimate that his finance minister had come up with a few months ago.

00:59:52.920 So whatever state we think the country is in is nowhere near as grim as the state the country is actually in.

01:00:01.280 And what my fear for Poliev is that he's going to take power in October, because I think Trudeau will hang on until then, but maybe not.

01:00:10.480 We'll see.

01:00:11.040 And things will be revealed to be demonstrably worse than they are on multiple dimensions.

01:00:19.080 You've outlined like six in our discussion today.

01:00:22.400 And he will be saddled with the blame.

01:00:26.020 And so he'll have a four-year term while he muddles through the absolute bloody nightmare that Trudeau has left, and then the liberals are connived their way back into power.

01:00:35.380 No, that's never going to happen.

01:00:36.460 Okay, so you're less pessimistic on that fact than me.

01:00:40.400 Well, the liberals might, but it might be some iteration of a liberal party that older Canadians are more familiar with.

01:00:47.580 Yes.

01:00:48.220 Well, yeah, I think the probability, like the most likely outcome in an October election in 2025 is that the liberals are essentially decimated.

01:00:57.100 Oh, they're history.

01:00:58.280 Yeah, I mean, they could remember after Mulroney, after the Mulroney government collapsed, essentially, I think the progressive conservatives were reduced to three seats federally, right?

01:01:09.840 That could easily happen to you.

01:01:10.380 Well, here's an interesting story.

01:01:12.360 You know, everybody, you find this a lot, this sort of speculation about, well, oh, this Trump thing, you know, could it happen in Canada?

01:01:18.980 Right-wing populism, yada, yada, everyone wets their pants.

01:01:21.580 Oh, my God, not here.

01:01:23.320 Well, it actually did happen here, and it happened back then, and it was the reform part.

01:01:27.000 Yeah, that's also happening in the UK.

01:01:29.820 You know that Farage fashioned his party after the reform party in Canada, right?

01:01:37.700 Well, one of the things I think conservatives should remember about the reform party is the result of the reform party was they reduced the conservatives to three, and they ushered in a decade of liberal rule.

01:01:49.080 So, good luck to you, lads.

01:01:51.340 Yeah.

01:01:51.620 Canadians, I think, are, you know, and this is something I also want to stress.

01:01:55.740 Yes.

01:01:56.300 The overwhelming majority of Canadians are not anti-Semites.

01:01:59.600 Oh, definitely not, yes.

01:02:01.820 I would say that, I would say probably the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not anti-Semites, although that's hard to say.

01:02:11.720 I referred to...

01:02:12.600 It would also depend to some degree on how you phrased the question.

01:02:15.980 That's right.

01:02:16.660 In fact, I referred to a study of Muslim public opinion.

01:02:21.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:21.220 And it was actually the proportion of Muslims who agreed to answer a particular question about suicide bombing and about whether or not the state of Israel should be allowed to exist. 0.53

01:02:35.560 It was, you know, it was pretty high.

01:02:39.900 There was, do you remember, there was a big debate about five years ago, six years ago, about Islamophobia.

01:02:47.120 Oh, yes.

01:02:47.840 In Canada.

01:02:48.540 You know, there was going to be a, there was going to be law, there was going to be statutory reform to sort of outlaw Islamophobia.

01:02:56.500 Yeah, another hate crime.

01:02:57.580 The liberals refused to define what they actually meant by Islamophobia.

01:03:02.200 You define that sort of thing after the fact.

01:03:04.420 Yeah, and you would hear the liberals say that every day, you know, Muslims in Canada are subjected to racist abuse and intimidation.

01:03:11.120 Yeah.

01:03:12.180 And I remember, because I'm a complete public opinion poll nerd, data is the thing.

01:03:17.040 I need to get, give me the data, everybody's opinion, who cares?

01:03:20.100 Give me the data.

01:03:20.740 And public opinion back then showed that the overwhelming majority of, well, Muslims in Canada were actually demonstrating a higher degree of pride in their country than what you might call old stock Canadians.

01:03:35.440 And the main complaint that Muslims had about Canada was so damn cold here.

01:03:40.600 Nobody was worried about, nobody was freaking out. 0.56

01:03:42.400 Perfectly solid complaint, by the way.

01:03:43.840 You know, no, it's just, I think we have to be very, very, very careful about understanding the nature of the problem.

01:03:55.660 And we have to be very careful about the words that we use, the language that we use.

01:03:59.620 And we all use these words, the kind of euphemisms, left-wing or progressive.

01:04:04.440 Are you kidding me?

01:04:05.260 What is progressive about the phenomena that we end up describing as progressive?

01:04:09.880 How is this in any way an aid of human progress or civilizational progress?

01:04:15.040 It's reactionary.

01:04:16.280 It's regressive.

01:04:18.360 It's not liberal.

01:04:20.920 Starting a business can be tough, but thanks to Shopify, running your online storefront is easier than ever.

01:04:26.940 Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.

01:04:31.200 From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage, Shopify is here to help you grow.

01:04:37.780 Our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise, and we love how easy it is to add more items, ship products, and track conversions.

01:04:46.260 With Shopify, customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful tools, alongside an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing, accounting, and chatbots.

01:04:57.740 Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout, up to 36% better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms.

01:05:05.560 No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level.

01:05:12.580 Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp, all lowercase.

01:05:18.540 Go to shopify.com slash jbp now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in.

01:05:23.880 That's shopify.com slash jbp.

01:05:25.560 So let's return to the beginning of our conversation and the topic that we had begun to investigate.

01:05:35.540 I mean, because I'm curious about why, what it was over the last year.

01:05:40.340 Tell me the story of your engagement with the rise in anti-Semitism, like phenomenon by phenomenon, you know.

01:05:48.460 I mean, the things that leaped out for me were the riots in Montreal.

01:05:52.640 I mean, I just hate to see that.

01:05:53.800 I lived in Montreal for seven years.

01:05:55.800 I loved Montreal.

01:05:57.240 It was a great city.

01:05:59.220 It was safe.

01:06:00.180 Like, you could walk.

01:06:01.120 A woman could walk anywhere in Montreal at three in the morning with no problem. 0.99

01:06:04.960 There was no poor areas.

01:06:07.020 And it had an unbelievably rich, like, nightlife and culture.

01:06:11.400 And it was a wonderful place to live, extremely peaceful.

01:06:15.940 And it was diverse in the most positive possible manner.

01:06:19.580 And to see riots, to see the sorts of things that are happening in Concordia, the sorts of things that are happening on the streets in Montreal, it's just, it's appalling beyond belief.

01:06:29.260 And then, of course, I was embarrassed as a former, well, current, I suppose, professor at the University of Toronto to see the encampments there and the encampments at McGill.

01:06:39.460 Well, I got my doctoral degree at McGill, and I loved McGill, and it was a great university.

01:06:43.920 And so there's terrible things afoot in Canada that I would have never dreamed of occurring here.

01:06:51.820 And, you know, I have a particular and personal animus against the Trudeau government for a variety of reasons.

01:06:57.360 But I'm very curious about what you've seen.

01:07:00.220 Like, I don't even know how politically aligned you and I are.

01:07:02.620 I mean, that's a complicated thing in today's world.

01:07:04.560 But you're obviously very disturbed by what you're observing.

01:07:08.000 And we have a lot of international listeners and viewers on this show.

01:07:11.460 And so what have you seen emerge in Canada, you know?

01:07:15.660 Yeah, well, I'll go back, I think, to what I was inarticulately trying to describe about the trajectory of the left since the 1990s.

01:07:24.280 I think by the 80s, I think, or the 90s, you could say that we'd won we, if I can say that, because I kind of came from the left.

01:07:35.000 Although I have no ideological commitments, and I'm kind of sour these days on the left.

01:07:39.660 But anyway, we'd won all our bouts.

01:07:43.320 Yeah.

01:07:43.800 We'd won them all.

01:07:44.920 Yeah.

01:07:45.140 Civil rights, equal rights for people of color.

01:07:49.180 Gay marriage.

01:07:50.060 Gay marriage.

01:07:50.980 The right of women to equality in the workplace.

01:07:54.480 The right of unions to organize.

01:07:57.360 Labor relations standards.

01:08:00.400 Environmental laws were coming along.

01:08:03.300 We'd won all our big battles.

01:08:06.200 And in the court of public opinion as well.

01:08:08.240 Oh, yes.

01:08:08.420 Not just legally.

01:08:09.180 Oh, yes.

01:08:09.480 Or electorally.

01:08:10.860 Yeah.

01:08:12.020 And I think, I mean, a mistake to get too weird, not to get too weird about it, but one mistake Marxists made was this idea that there is no more useful role for the bourgeoisie in the progress of human society.

01:08:27.760 They actually were wrong about that, because it was the bourgeoisie that led the charge against slavery and for women's rights.

01:08:36.760 So, at any rate, by the 80s or the 90s, you know, we'd won.

01:08:43.640 So, something peculiar has happened.

01:08:46.680 And there is this very dark phenomenon that has occupied the places where, all the places where the left used to be. 0.87

01:08:57.300 And it is invariably masochistic, sinister, self-hating, let's tear down the liberal democracies, let's cast Canada as this illegitimate racist colonial settler state, let's identify Israel as the epitome of everything that we loathe and despise. 0.98

01:09:28.180 It's an ugly, ugly, ugly thing. 0.99

01:09:30.560 And, I mean, I think it's ugly. 0.86

01:09:33.680 Maybe that's an opinion.

01:09:34.980 I don't know.

01:09:35.580 I think it's demonstrably true.

01:09:38.700 And that was the thing that I was watching over the years, is that, you know, I spent a lot of, well, my last major book was about Afghanistan, and I spent a lot of time in Syria and the northeast with the Kurds and what have you.

01:09:50.680 How much knowledge do you think typical Canadians have about what's going on?

01:09:55.720 Very, very little.

01:09:57.420 And why do you think that is?

01:10:01.160 A lot.

01:10:02.040 Okay.

01:10:02.280 Here's a proposition.

01:10:06.280 Everybody likes to beat up on the news media, right?

01:10:10.720 I've come up in the news media in the old discipline.

01:10:14.200 You spend six years as an apprentice before you're a journeyman in the old guild system.

01:10:19.740 Six years as a reporter.

01:10:21.580 After that, well, maybe you'll be allowed to have an opinion about something.

01:10:25.340 Really elaborate conventions and disciplines in what was essentially a trade, a craft.

01:10:37.020 And with the, you know, the golden era was about the 1980s, I would say, 1970s, 1980s.

01:10:44.240 And then with the advent of digital technologies and a whole bunch of other reasons, the news media, the conventional news media began to wither away and collapse.

01:10:56.280 And it's replaced by, you know, people talk about the mainstream media.

01:10:59.360 Well, the mainstream media today is Twitter.

01:11:01.560 That's the mainstream media now.

01:11:02.840 And so, in this period, it became increasingly difficult for journalists to actually tell a story, the results be damned.

01:11:15.480 It's much easier to basically fill your shift with three or four stories for deadline, each of which more or less uphold the narrative framework of the subscriber base that your media organization is targeting.

01:11:38.140 A lot of it does have, a lot of it really is about the decline and the collapse of news media.

01:11:47.400 I mean, I can talk about that a little bit because it's something I know.

01:11:52.120 But I think a lot of it, too, I think is language.

01:11:56.880 It's simple language that probably ends up with, you know, most ordinary people who are only casually interested in, you know,

01:12:06.640 the struggle for democracy in China or events in the Middle East or the strange creature that has come to occupy all the spaces where the Liberal Party used to be.

01:12:19.660 It's the language that we use.

01:12:21.400 How conservatives are the conservative?

01:12:23.880 How liberal are the liberals?

01:12:24.780 Well, the conservatives in the UK weren't very conservative for the 14 years they governed.

01:12:29.160 Well, yeah, I mean.

01:12:30.060 And we'll see what happens in Canada.

01:12:31.900 You can't call Donald Trump a conservative.

01:12:34.320 He's anything but.

01:12:35.200 Well, and I don't think you can call Justin Trudeau liberal, really, in any conventional sense.

01:12:42.480 No, I don't.

01:12:43.240 Very authoritarian, very much a sort of state capitalist thought control kind of way of looking at politics.

01:12:55.240 Well, you know, one of the things our discussion is sort of highlighting, I think, is that let's say you adopt the narrative that the center is corrupt and patriarchal and oppressive and Canada's destiny is post-national.

01:13:09.900 Okay, now, one hypothetical problem with that is, well, what rises to take the place of the center?

01:13:18.320 And you've pointed to all sorts of things, like a demented kind of neo-Marxism, the rise of an authoritarian UN on the foreign policy front, the dire and dismal influence of the Chinese Communist Party, the rise of the Islamist faction of the increasingly large Muslim population. 0.96

01:13:38.480 And then, well, okay, that's for, and then the rise, and the associated rise of the, yeah, yeah, the colonialist narrative that casts Israel as king of the oppressive states, right?

01:13:55.600 Well, so it's this fractionation, you know, once that center collapses, instead of everybody becoming free, you get this absurd fractionation, and then a war between different, what would you say, centers of power.

01:14:09.000 And we're trying to flesh out the pattern of that.

01:14:12.060 I mean, you pointed to a lot of things that are going wrong simultaneously, and there's some thread that unites them, but some of it's just emblematic of a kind of chaotic collapse of identity, right?

01:14:23.600 And so, and Trudeau's going to step out of this, leaving us in Canada in a terrible mess.

01:14:28.900 Let's talk about Poliev a little bit.

01:14:30.980 I mean, I know him, and what I've seen so far, I'm happy about.

01:14:37.420 I mean, I've been talking to conservatives in Canada ever since 2016, really, when I sort of burst onto the scene in my opposition to Bill C-16.

01:14:47.880 You know, and the conservatives that I talked to eight years ago were much more timid bunch than the conservatives that are emerging in Canada now.

01:14:59.140 And so, Poliev and Daniel Smith, they're both tough people.

01:15:03.220 And so, that's heartening as far as I'm concerned.

01:15:06.600 Whether Poliev is in a position to right the ship that Trudeau has inverted, that's a whole different question.

01:15:14.120 I mean, I wish him well, but I'm also pleased in a, what would you say, personal sense that I don't have his job.

01:15:22.040 Because, like, I mean, I look at Canada with a kind of horror at the moment, because we are in very bad shape economically.

01:15:30.280 And, I mean, just the fact that just, Canadians now make 60% as much as the average American.

01:15:37.940 And our real estate is twice as expensive.

01:15:39.800 Yeah, and the trajectory is downward, right?

01:15:43.140 And I think it was, what, was it World Economic Forum or the World Bank?

01:15:47.800 I don't remember which agency.

01:15:50.040 Their projection for Canada was worst performing economy over the next 30 years in the G7.

01:15:55.300 Yeah.

01:15:55.520 Right?

01:15:56.020 Well, and that's on top of the fact, that's adjacent to the fact that if Canada had its act together in anything approximating a realistic manner,

01:16:04.760 at least the West could be rich beyond belief, because it's definitely the case that the world is dying, fighting for our natural resources.

01:16:14.600 And, I mean, you saw the fact that the German Chancellor and the Japanese Prime Minister came cap and hand to Trudeau and said,

01:16:21.080 Give us natural gas.

01:16:21.760 How about some natural gas for your friends there, buddy?

01:16:24.500 And his argument was, I can't make a business case for that.

01:16:28.400 And the thing is, that was before Canadians re-elected him.

01:16:32.280 And they just re-elected the NDP in British Columbia.

01:16:35.840 And so I look at Canada and I think, we're in serious trouble and we have by no means even begun to learn our lesson.

01:16:42.780 And that's a relatively terrifying prospect.

01:16:44.820 Be very, very careful when you use the term we.

01:16:48.580 Only 20% of Canadians voted for Trudeau in the last election.

01:16:53.460 He hasn't gained anything.

01:16:55.040 He's lost a lot.

01:16:56.340 Yeah.

01:16:58.400 I think a lot of people are scared of the unknown.

01:17:02.160 I think they're willing to, you know, step out into the cool and the dark.

01:17:07.260 But there are still people who will not vote for, will vote conservative.

01:17:11.280 Fair play.

01:17:12.060 It doesn't really matter.

01:17:13.400 We're going to see an absolute rout of the Liberals in the next election.

01:17:18.460 One of the things we haven't even discussed is the rise of the independentistes in Quebec, the Bloc.

01:17:25.040 Because there's another dimension of complexity that tears Canada apart, which Canada is in such bad shape that when we're talking about threats to Canada, we didn't even mention the separatists.

01:17:38.860 Yeah, that's a very real possibility.

01:17:42.420 Although one of the things that's interesting about Quebec is that all of these things that bedevil us and are, you know, increasingly bourgeois sensitivities about race and gender and Quebecers aren't phased.

01:17:56.880 Meh.

01:17:57.420 They don't care.

01:17:58.660 They do not care.

01:17:59.660 In Quebec, in the French, you know, poorer than Quebecers, they're not woke. 0.99

01:18:10.080 The left in Quebec is not woke.

01:18:13.300 It's natural to have a fear of missing out, but Pearl Vision can help you maximize your vision benefits so you don't miss out on what you're entitled to.

01:18:20.500 Whether you need an updated prescription or replace your broken glasses, make the most of your benefits before they expire.

01:18:27.040 Pearl Vision direct bills, most insurances.

01:18:30.160 Visit pearlvision.ca to arrange your exam today.

01:18:33.900 Exams available at the Independent Doctors of Optometry at or next to Pearl Vision.

01:18:38.620 And that I find fascinating.

01:18:45.520 I think they have a real sense of themselves.

01:18:48.080 A lot of it doesn't really, you know, lay sete, their idea of, you know, extreme secularism doesn't sit well with me.

01:18:54.360 But what the hell?

01:18:55.580 They seem to know what they're about. 0.50

01:18:58.220 And, yeah, I mean, I...

01:19:00.860 The Canadian, or the Quebec independence movement would never regard itself as post-national.

01:19:08.220 Exactly.

01:19:08.660 Right.

01:19:09.040 I mean, far from it.

01:19:10.580 Far from it.

01:19:11.860 There's also an argument that I've heard that a lot of young Quebecers, they don't remember back in the day.

01:19:16.620 They don't remember the old days.

01:19:17.980 They're not, you know, they're not interested in separatism.

01:19:21.520 Yeah.

01:19:21.720 You know, so who knows?

01:19:23.500 Who knows?

01:19:24.060 But it does add a layer of complexity to this that...

01:19:27.720 Okay, so now, why did you feel compelled to shed light on rising anti-Semitism?

01:19:34.880 Why is that something...

01:19:36.700 Like, you talked about a lot of things today that could have occupied your attention and obviously have.

01:19:42.580 Now, you and Barry at the Free Press put a lot of time and effort into this particular article.

01:19:48.640 And it's a pretty hard-hitting article and it's quite distressing, if you have any sense at all.

01:19:54.340 Why is it the phenomenon of rising anti-Semitism?

01:19:58.020 Or is it even anti-Semitism?

01:19:59.580 Is it the dominance of the pro-Hamas movement?

01:20:02.700 Is it the rise of the radical left?

01:20:05.020 Is it like...

01:20:05.960 Where...

01:20:07.660 Why did you focus on anti-Semitism per se, given the range of your concerns about Canada?

01:20:13.340 Why did you bring that to international attention, let's say?

01:20:16.080 Because the Jews are terrified.

01:20:18.640 Because the Jews are persecuted in this country.

01:20:22.400 Okay, now, and do you see that as a canary in a coal mine phenomenon?

01:20:25.880 Yeah, you can put it that way.

01:20:26.340 I know you said that that's not all of it, and fair enough.

01:20:28.680 Yeah, you could put it that way.

01:20:30.720 I think it would be of concern to me, even if they were not the canary in the coal mine.

01:20:36.700 Yeah, that's...

01:20:37.140 I mean, if it's a personal question, you know, it's an odd thing.

01:20:40.700 I mean, it's a family thing.

01:20:43.420 My association with the Jewish community goes back a long way.

01:20:46.380 I'm a Tague.

01:20:47.380 I'm Irish Catholic.

01:20:49.100 Yeah.

01:20:49.620 But it's complicated.

01:20:51.140 And it is a concern of mine and the company that I keep.

01:20:56.560 And...

01:20:57.040 But it's such a terrible thing on Canada's reputation, too.

01:20:58.500 The thing that is, when you talk to old Jews, right? 1.00

01:21:00.920 Like, really sophisticated guys who've been in and out of office or university professors.

01:21:05.120 And they will tell you, you know, with their voice cracking, I have never seen anything like this in my life.

01:21:13.240 Yeah, right.

01:21:13.900 I feel exactly the same way.

01:21:15.460 You know, all the communities I talk to, the Hillel on campus, you know, synagogues across the country, people are afraid.

01:21:22.960 And they feel abandoned.

01:21:25.120 And they feel as though their government has abandoned them.

01:21:30.640 Yeah, well, they made a calculated decision.

01:21:31.920 This is worth noticing.

01:21:34.180 And what am I?

01:21:35.020 I'm just a guy.

01:21:35.640 I'm a reporter.

01:21:36.280 I'm a writer.

01:21:37.300 So I've done my best to document this and to bear witness to it.

01:21:43.160 And I don't know what's going to come.

01:21:46.200 Tell me.

01:21:46.640 I'm here talking to you about it.

01:21:47.820 There you go.

01:21:48.400 Yeah, yeah.

01:21:48.980 Well, tell me.

01:21:49.880 It's funny, you know, because I read your article, because I follow the free press.

01:21:53.560 And I've had some dealings with Barry Weiss and positive dealings with Barry Weiss.

01:21:58.460 Complex, but positive dealings with Barry Weiss.

01:22:00.840 And I read your article, and I thought, I should probably talk to Terry about this article, and maybe Barry, too.

01:22:07.220 And then, like, four hours later, she wrote me, and she said, you know, I really think you should talk to Terry about this article.

01:22:12.340 And so, you know, that was propitious, as was the fact that I'm out on the West Coast here, so I can talk to you directly.

01:22:18.700 Yeah, that was funny, the way that happened.

01:22:20.440 I said, you know, Jordan Peterson, he's like one of these big forehead guys.

01:22:23.520 Everybody likes him.

01:22:24.320 You know, Barry, Barry, you talk to him, Barry.

01:22:27.160 And, you know, he's great, but, you know, you meet up with him in New York or wherever.

01:22:31.420 And then Barry said, well, actually, he's on Vancouver Island.

01:22:34.340 Okay, that's only like three hours from where I am.

01:22:36.640 So that's how it happened.

01:22:38.180 Yeah, well, I'm shocked by what's happened to Canada.

01:22:42.580 I mean, one of the precipitating factors in my recent move to the United States was Bill C-63.

01:22:49.500 I don't know if you've managed to delve into the weeds with regards to Bill C-63.

01:22:54.480 But it's a bill that's so awful that every time I read it, I think, because I'm not a lawyer, you know, I think, there's no way I'm understanding this properly.

01:23:04.780 You know, and then I read it again and I think, yeah, well, you know, usually I can understand what I'm reading.

01:23:10.560 And this is, I mean, it's such a dense web of stunning, incompetent malevolence because it starts with these pronouncements about protecting children from online exploitation and pornography.

01:23:24.620 Simultaneously, of course, the biggest pornography network in the world operates out of Canada, right?

01:23:29.980 That's Pornhub, which operates out of Montreal.

01:23:31.900 And to call it a despicable organization is to barely scrape the surface.

01:23:37.000 If Trudeau and his minions were the least bit serious about protecting children from online pornography, there's a lot better places they can start than Bill C-63.

01:23:45.880 But virtue signaling at the beginning, virtue signaling at the end, we're protecting children.

01:23:51.340 It's like, yeah, I don't think you are.

01:23:53.520 But then in the middle, there's all these clauses detailing out first the construction of a bureaucracy, which, as far as I can tell, would have unlimited power, all the power of the court and the power of unlimited growth.

01:24:08.180 And it says right in the bill that that court system, a new parallel court system, would not be bound by the traditional standards of evidence.

01:24:17.180 That's right.

01:24:17.820 I read that and I thought, what?

01:24:20.480 You know, here's the former director.

01:24:22.600 I forgot his name.

01:24:23.540 He's a lovely guy.

01:24:24.420 The former chief commissioner of the Human Rights Commission, federal, said this is all, you know, it's horrible. 0.97

01:24:31.400 It's ridiculous. 0.59

01:24:32.080 And I think they know damn well that there's absolutely no way that any of this will withstand a charter challenge. 0.88

01:24:39.440 And the point of this is, well, the point of this, and this is the case that he makes that I think is persuasive, is they're just trying to scare you.

01:24:47.740 They're just trying to shut you out.

01:24:49.040 They're just trying to put you on notice.

01:24:50.840 Well, they'd succeeded with me.

01:24:53.000 Well, you haven't shut up.

01:24:55.140 No, but I really thought through Bill C-63.

01:24:58.520 Like, I've already had my fair share of trouble with the Ontario College of Psychologists because they have weaponized, they have allowed activists to weaponize their complaint process.

01:25:10.300 And what could be done to be under the auspices of Bill C-63 make what happened with the college, who I've managed to successfully battle off so far, look like nothing.

01:25:21.740 Here's how what we've been discussing, particularly anti-Semitism, directly relates to this concern of yours in the matter of Bill C-63.

01:25:32.900 And it also directly relates to how I've been attacked for merely noticing that a lot of what we've heard about mass graves, this archipelago of mass graves across the country at residential schools, it's a fiction.

01:25:48.860 There is a proposal, and it's supported by the Justice Minister, Arif Farhani.

01:25:58.080 Yeah, he's fun.

01:25:59.520 He's fun.

01:25:59.920 He's a lot of fun.

01:26:01.020 He's everything you'd hope he'd be.

01:26:03.420 Insert a concept called residential schools denials.

01:26:07.000 Yeah, right.

01:26:08.180 Which is an absurd abstraction.

01:26:10.100 To insert it into the same section of the criminal code that outlaws incitement against the Jews by Holocaust.

01:26:23.200 Yeah, that's perfectly in keeping with the way they view it.

01:26:26.240 And this is all about just shutting people up, terrifying people.

01:26:29.120 Well, that's...

01:26:29.880 And the other one, and I think we didn't even talk about this, the most pernicious, is this recent construction of anti-Palestinian racism.

01:26:38.340 Yes, as hate speech.

01:26:42.000 Well, yeah, but if you look at the definition of it, and again, you know, Trudeau says he's willing to adopt this in some form, as has the Justice Minister said the same.

01:26:52.700 The standard definition of anti-Palestinian racism devised by the Arab-Canadian Lawyers Association, which I've never heard of before, and I think this is all they've ever done, is any utterance of a conventional Zionist standpoint cannot but be understood as anti-Palestinian racism.

01:27:15.300 Right, right.

01:27:16.120 So that would include support for the fact of Israel's existence?

01:27:21.720 The mere support for the fact of Israel's existence as a Jewish sovereignty in the Holy Land.

01:27:27.720 That if you confront or deny or dispute the Palestinian narrative, if you dispute the Nakba, if you deny the right of Palestinians, their claim to title of all of historic Palestine, then you are engaging in anti-Palestinian racism.

01:27:47.920 In other words, then you're a Zionist. 0.85

01:27:49.320 Okay, so let's tie that into Bill C-63.

01:27:55.500 Yeah, well, there it is.

01:27:56.580 Well, so in Bill C-63, there's a provision, which I've read several times, that if I am afraid, because that's the language in the bill, that Terry might utter something hateful in the next year, so let's say that would be your support for the existence of Israel, 0.98

01:28:15.900 Well, then I can bring you in front of a provincial magistrate, and he can fit you with an electronic bracelet, and you can be confined to your home for a year.

01:28:25.900 And all of your social media posting will be disallowed, and whoever you see will be regulated.

01:28:31.980 And, and this is something I just can't figure out at all, it's so preposterous that it beggars belief, you will be required to donate body fluid on a regular basis to your physician to have it monitored on a daily basis.

01:28:47.680 I wasn't aware of this one.

01:28:48.780 Absolutely, to make sure that you're not consuming anything illegal or anything intoxicated.

01:28:54.080 Now, I think what happened...

01:28:54.920 Okay, that is beyond the pale.

01:28:56.700 It's in there.

01:28:57.720 That is beyond the pale.

01:28:59.000 No Jameson's.

01:29:00.040 Yeah, well, I think, I think the reason is, I'm trying to figure out, where the hell did they get this?

01:29:05.000 But I think probably where they got it from was legislation on domestic abuse.

01:29:11.040 Okay.

01:29:11.380 Because if you want to protect it, if you want to mitigate the probability of domestic abuse, limiting the abuser's alcohol consumption is actually a logical move.

01:29:20.280 I'm not claiming that on ethical or legal grounds.

01:29:22.800 I just mean that alcohol does increase the probability of abuse substantively.

01:29:27.340 And I can't imagine where else they would have got the idea.

01:29:30.060 But that's in that bill in black and white.

01:29:32.920 So we have not only hate crime...

01:29:35.000 You see, I don't think...

01:29:36.580 Okay, apart from the fact that the liberals are history, apart from the fact that Trudeau is a dead man walking, quite apart from all that, I don't think there was any serious expectation that any of these laws, these initiatives would survive a charter challenge.

01:29:54.680 It's all about intimidation.

01:29:56.540 You think that was true with C-16?

01:29:58.120 It's all about intimidation. And I think one of the things that our friends in Hong Kong, in the democracy movement, insisted upon was, do not obey in advance.

01:30:08.580 Do not obey in advance.

01:30:11.080 Whatever they threaten you with, just say what you need to say and what you mean to say and bring it on.

01:30:18.540 Yeah.

01:30:18.840 Let's have you then. Let's see the whites of your eyes. And I think that's the position that we all have to adopt.

01:30:26.040 Yeah, well, it's hard to...

01:30:26.940 I think all of that stuff is going to... It's gone. It's in the dustbin of history.

01:30:33.640 Well, I'm hoping you're... 1.00

01:30:36.140 You're being foolish by running off to America. 0.99

01:30:38.680 Yeah, well, I have many other reasons for being there. 0.98

01:30:41.880 But, you see, I wonder about that because my experience with the Ontario College of Psychologists, I would say, suggests otherwise.

01:30:51.640 Because none of my professional colleagues, including physicians, with pretty much zero exception, have stood up publicly and said that what's happened to me is wrong.

01:31:03.680 And I know why.

01:31:04.320 Are they afraid?

01:31:05.420 Of course, they come to me privately.

01:31:07.780 And why are they afraid?

01:31:09.120 Well, it's very, very simple.

01:31:10.440 They're afraid because the professional colleges have unlimited power of regulation over the members of regulated professions, which is pretty much what my Supreme Court challenge denial indicated.

01:31:27.700 And if a professional is brought to task, let's say, by their professional college and loses their license, then they're terrified.

01:31:42.400 And I looked at C-63 carefully, and it would produce a parallel bureaucracy, a bureaucracy that would regulate the speech and conduct of all Canadians in almost precisely the same way that the professional colleges regulate the speech and conduct of regulated professionals.

01:31:57.880 I don't think Canadians would stand up. 1.00

01:31:59.900 I've seen no evidence that they will.

01:32:02.260 So, now, I do understand that Trudeau's on his way out, and Canada...

01:32:06.200 Well, I think Canadians would, but it's a very good question about whether or not the professional and managerial cast would.

01:32:12.980 Well, I think we've seen the answer to that question.

01:32:16.940 I'm not saying this with any, like, I'm not happy about this.

01:32:22.020 There's no pride in this.

01:32:23.100 I think it's appalling.

01:32:24.740 You know, and I've talked to many physicians in particular, because it's mostly physicians I've talked to who are terrified of the Ontario College of Physicians, for example, because they'll make their life...

01:32:35.200 I mean, this bloody court case, for me, it's gone on eight years.

01:32:39.180 It's eight years.

01:32:40.540 It's cost me, like, $600,000.

01:32:43.160 And it's not like I'm winning.

01:32:46.940 Like, they can't take me out, because I have independent sources of income and a reasonable public voice.

01:32:53.420 But you have to be in a pretty unique position to be able to withstand that sort of lawfare for that amount of time.

01:33:03.060 Like, I don't practice as a clinical psychologist anymore, and that became impossible in, like, 2017.

01:33:08.880 Just like being a professor became impossible.

01:33:11.580 So, like, these...

01:33:12.700 The forces that can be brought to bear against you, if you dare open your mouth, are more than most people can or will bear.

01:33:20.100 And I can see why.

01:33:21.760 You know, I had three sources of income when I opposed Bill C-16, and I lost two of them.

01:33:28.340 Right.

01:33:28.840 The third one was entrepreneurial, and it was under my control.

01:33:32.100 But two was a lot, and three would have been, well, catastrophic.

01:33:36.840 And so, if you only have one, and that's your professional practice, well, it's not surprising that people are cowed and intimidated into silence.

01:33:45.440 And so, okay, well, we have to wrap up on the YouTube side, and I think what we'll do on the Daily Wire side is, well, we'll continue our discussion about Canada.

01:33:56.300 I'm curious about your thoughts about, well, the Conservatives under Pierre Polyev.

01:34:02.180 I want to know what you think about him.

01:34:04.220 I want...

01:34:04.820 You said that you're, you know, habitually an optimist and that you're still optimistic about Canada in general.

01:34:10.620 And there are reasons to be optimistic.

01:34:12.060 I mean, Canada's a remarkable country, and the run-of-the-mill Canadian is a decent and law-abiding, orderly, trustworthy person.

01:34:22.220 And that's not trivial.

01:34:24.280 But there are some serious cracks in the foundation, more than I've ever seen in my lifetime, by a lot.

01:34:30.160 I mean, you named five of them.

01:34:32.100 And, you know, and as we said, we deprioritized the Quebec sovereignists, right?

01:34:36.240 So you can see how, and they've been a fundamental threat to Canadian integrity for, like, 40 years.

01:34:41.900 So, on the Daily Wire side, let's turn our attention to Canada's future, dire and positive, you know, because we can flesh out both alternatives.

01:34:50.600 And I think for you international people who are listening, you know, the reason to be concerned about Canadian politics, which have actually become of some interest internationally in the last nine years, is because, like the Jews in Canada and in the U.S., maybe in the West worldwide, Canada is also a canary in the coal mine.

01:35:09.880 Because Justin Trudeau is a poster boy for the progressives worldwide, and whatever strange political tangents we're meandering down in Canada are isomorphic with the political threats that exist in the U.K. and the United States, although now less to some degree, Australia, New Zealand, the West in general.

01:35:30.320 And so delving into what's happening here and how that might be rectified is a enterprise that might be worthwhile on the international front as well.

01:35:42.640 So join us on the Daily Wire side if you're inclined to do that.

01:35:45.920 Terry, thank you very much. It was a pleasure.

01:35:48.300 Yeah, really nice meeting you.

01:35:49.700 I suppose very nice to meet you, too.

01:35:51.300 Thank you very much.

01:35:52.000 And yeah, and I certainly appreciate the article in the Free Press, you know, I've been writing about, what would you say, pathological group conflict for a very long period of time, and it's a terrible thing to see it rear its head in Canada.

01:36:09.420 It's a terrible thing, and it's very useful to draw attention to it, and you did that very effectively internationally, and it was very good at Barry to publish it as well.

01:36:18.160 And hopefully it'll clue more Canadians into what's going on and into the seriousness of that for the Jews, which is not trivial, as you pointed out, in and of itself, but also as a bellwether for just exactly where we're headed.

01:36:35.280 All right, sir.

01:36:35.400 Grant, thank you very much.

01:36:36.920 You bet, you bet.

01:36:37.620 Good talking to you.

01:36:48.160 Stay safe on roads this winter.

01:36:51.500 Michelin driving expert and former professional race car driver Carl Nadeau shares his tips on winter driving and how winter tires work.

01:36:59.180 Like chewing gum hardens in the cold, so do tire compounds.

01:37:02.540 That's why winter tires are made from rubber compounds that stay flexible in cold weather, enhancing grip, traction, and braking on icy roads.

01:37:10.760 Winter tires also have an open tread design and added sipes for better traction.

01:37:14.920 Check out michelin.ca to find the right winter tire for your vehicle today.

507. Anti-Semitism and the Fall of Trudeau's Canada ｜ Terry Glavin

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript