The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 525. The War on Speech—and Those Who Dare to Fight It ｜ Ezra Levant

00:00:00.000 There's a battle between Tommy Robinson and the government of the United Kingdom over what is true.

00:00:04.560 They've got Tommy in isolation. That's their strategy. Do you know how he's doing?

00:00:08.540 He's deteriorating. That's another thing about being in jail I've learned from Tommy Robinson

00:00:12.480 is you are at the mercy of these guards.

00:00:14.540 How would you describe the World Economic Forum?

00:00:16.600 When I go to the UK, I see what our future will be five years down the road if we don't change boards.

00:00:20.680 Let me tell you what's terrifying about that.

00:00:30.000 Hello, everybody. I'm sitting here in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada today,

00:00:41.860 and my guest is Ezra Levant, and Ezra Levant is the perpetrator of Rebel News,

00:00:48.720 which was an early adopter of social media technology on the news front,

00:00:54.300 one of Canada's earliest adopters, and really one of the earliest adopters in the world,

00:00:58.140 and he's been rabble-rousing for like a good, depends on how you count it, but 10 to 15 years.

00:01:04.980 And we first came to each other's attention when I was participating in a free speech debacle

00:01:13.820 at the University of Toronto just after my comments about Canada's infamous Bill C-16.

00:01:20.240 My well-reasoned comments, I might add, came to wide public attention and caused a furor that never ended.

00:01:27.160 And Rebel News backed me in that enterprise and helped publicize what was happening

00:01:34.760 and supported my research financially for a year or so at the University of Toronto

00:01:40.400 when the federal government decided that I wasn't worth supporting anymore,

00:01:44.100 despite my stellar research background and unbroken history of previous funding.

00:01:49.000 Anyways, I got a chance to talk to Ezra, and so we did a bit of walking down memory lane

00:01:54.300 talking about, well, the strange situation that obtains in Canada,

00:02:00.020 not least with regard to the new likely liberal leader, Mark Carney.

00:02:04.340 We talked about the WEF and their machinations.

00:02:07.860 We talked a fair bit about Tommy Robinson, a political prisoner in the UK.

00:02:11.540 I did two interviews with him, and Ezra worked.

00:02:15.940 Tommy Robinson was a journalist working for Rebel News for a good while.

00:02:20.000 And we talked a lot about Tommy, who's in solitary confinement,

00:02:23.620 in a maximum security prison in the UK for a civil crime,

00:02:28.160 which was distributing a film called Silenced,

00:02:31.720 which is probably the most well-watched documentary that the UK has ever produced.

00:02:36.220 So that gag order didn't work very well.

00:02:40.340 We talked a fair bit about Australia.

00:02:43.120 We talked about the political situation in Canada and the UK.

00:02:47.160 We talked about the truck convoy and about the transformation of the news media

00:02:53.000 from the corrupt government-funded legacy media in Canada,

00:02:57.840 say, exemplified by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the CBC,

00:03:02.620 and the rise of the new media.

00:03:04.280 And apart from wandering down memory lane.

00:03:07.900 And so, oh, I should mention something, too.

00:03:11.920 Even though Ezra was too shy to mention it during the podcast,

00:03:16.460 which is not something that you'd normally say about Ezra Levant, too shy.

00:03:20.380 He's got a new book coming out, too, which is called Deal of the Century,

00:03:24.300 the America First Plan for Canada's Oil Sands.

00:03:27.500 And so, well, keep an eye out for that,

00:03:29.760 because there's a lot of oil in the oil sands and there's every reason to use it,

00:03:34.660 despite the myriad of reasons that we're force-fed about not using it.

00:03:40.040 And so, you know, Ezra's a battler for the Alberta economy and for Western energy independence

00:03:48.420 and the utility of being grateful, let's say, for the fossil fuel industry

00:03:53.340 that stops us from freezing to death in Winnipeg, for example,

00:03:57.440 in the middle of the winter when it's minus 30 and everyone's warm.

00:04:01.340 And so that's Deal of the Century, the America First Plan for Canada's Oil Sands.

00:04:05.620 In any case, join me today for my discussion with Ezra Levant, head of Rebel News.

00:04:10.960 They also, by the way, did a lot to publicize the Trucker's Convoy.

00:04:15.300 Looking forward to it.

00:04:17.300 So we have lots to talk about today.

00:04:19.440 We can talk about our mutual friend, Tommy Robinson,

00:04:24.540 and whatever the hell is going on in the UK.

00:04:28.200 We can talk about the WF, because I know you've sent journalists there

00:04:32.100 and been there yourself.

00:04:32.980 We can talk about the stunningly dismal state of the political situation in Canada.

00:04:41.120 But I think I want to start with two other things.

00:04:45.200 I want to remember how we met.

00:04:49.820 And I want to talk to you about what's happened with Rebel News since then.

00:04:54.920 So I want to hear how you think we met and what happened when we first began our association.

00:05:02.980 I saw a courageous professor, and those words don't go together very often,

00:05:07.820 standing outside the University of Toronto, making the case for freedom of speech,

00:05:12.480 while people tried to shout him down.

00:05:14.380 And in fact, Antifa types brought loudspeakers to blast white noise.

00:05:20.300 And we had our cameras there, and we said,

00:05:22.100 Who is this?

00:05:24.780 And doesn't he know that he's going to get squashed?

00:05:28.280 Doesn't he know to bend the knee?

00:05:29.860 And this was almost 10 years ago.

00:05:34.720 It was 2016 in the fall, yeah.

00:05:37.200 And we were citizen journalists just finding our legs.

00:05:41.580 Rebel News was only born in 2015.

00:05:43.680 Yeah.

00:05:44.000 Lauren Southern was there.

00:05:45.260 That's right.

00:05:46.020 And that was before the great demonetization and cancellation of politically incorrect videos.

00:05:53.280 It was the golden age for YouTubers.

00:05:55.100 So things that were raw and interesting and real just zoomed on that channel.

00:06:02.020 That all came to an end in early 2017 because all this bubbling, frothing conversation

00:06:08.440 helped put Donald Trump in the White House in 2016.

00:06:12.380 And Silicon Valley woke up and said, We did that.

00:06:15.800 And so you saw Facebook and YouTube and Google learn about community guidelines and throttling

00:06:23.640 and boosting something that has really been going on to this day.

00:06:28.220 Well, and it's still going on, except it's increasingly invisible.

00:06:31.660 We have no idea how these giant corporations, Google in particular, manipulate behind the scenes

00:06:38.220 to ensure that the right slant is brought to bear, not only on the content, but on the viewership

00:06:43.960 and the dissemination, which is even YouTube, for example, took us like about six months to figure this out.

00:06:51.240 My YouTube channel, this was a couple of years ago, maybe even last year, our numbers were slipping,

00:06:56.800 but my subscriber rate was continuing to go up and at a good rate.

00:07:00.940 I accrue about 100,000 subscribers a month, which is quite a few.

00:07:05.440 And we found that some flunky, maybe, who knows why or on whose orders,

00:07:14.180 scrubbed the name Peterson from the autofill in the search bar.

00:07:18.560 So if you typed in PET, it didn't fill.

00:07:21.900 It didn't fill for Michaela, my daughter, because she has a podcast, but for any Petersons,

00:07:26.580 but it definitely didn't fill for me.

00:07:28.500 And so that was a hard thing to ferret out.

00:07:30.240 It was a subtle manipulation of the distribution of the videos,

00:07:36.740 because a lot of the way that people find new videos is by autofill, right?

00:07:41.920 So that's just one example among many.

00:07:44.720 A Google Insider, a few years back, showed me some internal chats that they had in their company.

00:07:51.040 There were more people at Google watching and talking and commenting and criticizing Rebel News

00:07:56.900 than who worked for Rebel News.

00:07:58.780 And we're a fraction of your size.

00:08:01.200 So anything to touch your discoverability would be done.

00:08:06.940 I wouldn't say a junior flunky.

00:08:08.480 You're being too kind.

00:08:09.380 And we know that this goes straight to the top.

00:08:13.000 Mark Zuckerberg pretty much confessed to that a few weeks ago when he said he was going to stop doing that.

00:08:18.400 We know from some lawsuits in the U.S., especially during the pandemic,

00:08:23.380 from the White House to the FBI to the CIA,

00:08:26.300 there was so many different government organizations,

00:08:29.080 including to do with health that were plugged right in to the back end of social media,

00:08:36.620 trying to throttle people even like RFK Jr.

00:08:38.860 Yeah.

00:08:39.180 Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:08:39.660 And if you said anything that was contrarian about the pandemic,

00:08:43.460 even things that are now accepted, like the likelihood that it came from the Wuhan Virology Center or Research Center,

00:08:50.280 you would be demonetized so you wouldn't be able to sell ads.

00:08:54.160 You would be throttled in various ways.

00:08:57.080 You would be suspended. 0.74

00:08:57.940 It happened to us.

00:08:58.980 We were growing at 8% per month.

00:09:01.620 Not quite the stats that you described, but back in 2015, 2016,

00:09:05.780 we were the largest YouTube news service in Canada,

00:09:08.900 more than Global News, more than CTV.

00:09:12.120 Those are massive billion-dollar companies.

00:09:14.380 We were bigger.

00:09:16.160 And then, bam, in January 2017, we were cut by 85%.

00:09:21.480 And then they later just took it all down to zero.

00:09:23.540 We still have about 1.7 million YouTube subscribers.

00:09:27.080 And I love them, and we'll always give them content.

00:09:30.620 But we're not allowed to put a single ad towards them or get what's called a super chat.

00:09:35.200 And we love Rumble, which is a free speech alternative.

00:09:39.580 But really, Elon Musk has not only saved free speech, but I think through that saved America.

00:09:45.820 How are you guys doing on X?

00:09:48.640 Well, I mean, I love it.

00:09:50.820 It doesn't make a lot of money for us.

00:09:52.780 Yeah.

00:09:53.000 But we have that kind of growth and engagement that we used to have back in the day at YouTube.

00:09:59.800 And I hope Rumble continues to grow.

00:10:02.000 Those guys have free speech on their mind.

00:10:04.060 And they've got some big support.

00:10:07.460 They're doing interesting deals, not just with social media, but cloud services.

00:10:12.080 And I don't know.

00:10:12.700 There's a lot of ways that censorship works.

00:10:14.580 But I think the government has to get involved with rooting.

00:10:22.720 Here's an example.

00:10:24.680 Elon Musk and his doge.

00:10:26.340 They're going through and finding all these cases where the government has been paying regime journalists.

00:10:31.720 Well, I think in Canada, if I've got this right, maybe this is misinformation.

00:10:36.840 So for everybody watching and listening, there's your misinformation warning for the day.

00:10:40.360 I came across information from a variety of sources suggesting that about 25% of the salary of the typical legacy media journalist in Canada is essentially subsidized by the government.

00:10:54.680 I think it's actually closer to 30.

00:10:56.820 And that's just through one particular program.

00:11:00.400 And 99% of Canadian journalists are on that program.

00:11:05.100 The CBC itself, the state broadcaster, is larger than all other media combined, all other news media combined.

00:11:12.860 Yeah, but Ezra, they do get hundreds of views on their YouTube postings.

00:11:18.240 Hundreds.

00:11:19.440 But that's the paying for a certain message.

00:11:23.980 What is fascinating and terrifying is to see how U.S. government and now Canadian government money and U.K.

00:11:32.120 funds so-called fact checkers.

00:11:33.880 For example, NewsGuard.

00:11:35.180 Yeah, fact checkers.

00:11:35.880 I don't know if you've ever heard of NewsGuard.

00:11:38.440 Huge contracts with the U.S. Air Force for some reason.

00:11:42.120 And they review any website and give it a rating.

00:11:47.240 And that rating is plugged into browsers.

00:11:50.320 And it basically says this is safe and this is dangerous.

00:11:54.680 And it's purely political.

00:11:56.540 I mean, they rate us every year.

00:11:58.360 It's a BS exercise.

00:11:59.960 They ask us questions about Trump.

00:12:02.500 They ask us questions about transgenderism.

00:12:05.160 And they ask us questions about vaccines.

00:12:07.800 You can see they're pushing a very particular message track.

00:12:11.160 And they censor us for our opinions, not our facts.

00:12:13.920 These things are all funded by the government.

00:12:15.800 Yeah, well, the thing is if it was an easy thing to separate out opinion from fact, the world would be a much less complex place.

00:12:24.560 You know, today's fact is tomorrow's opinion and today's opinion is tomorrow's fact.

00:12:28.880 And partly we're exchanging information all the time to distinguish between the two.

00:12:32.860 But it's not like it's easy a priori.

00:12:35.120 And so many preposterous things have turned out to be true.

00:12:38.140 You know, I think the thing that shocked me most, two things that I discovered in the last 10 years, I suppose, were kind of at the top of the list of shocking realities.

00:12:48.540 And one was that the public education system in North America and in Europe and in Japan, for that matter, was literally created by fascist industrialists in the late 1800s to make unthinking workers available for use in factories.

00:13:05.580 They based the public education system on the Prussian military model.

00:13:10.880 And the Prussians had decided they were going to train rural people to be soldiers.

00:13:15.000 And the last thing they wanted them to do was think.

00:13:18.360 And so that's like, I just don't even know what to do with a piece of information like that.

00:13:22.800 But nothing's changed in 100.

00:13:24.420 Well, that's why it's rows of desks and there's factory bells.

00:13:27.840 And, you know, there was some reason for it.

00:13:30.120 Rural people were pouring into the cities.

00:13:31.900 Their kids were very likely to work in factories.

00:13:33.800 You know, they had to learn to work by the bell.

00:13:36.840 But the insistence that the products be unthinking, you know, because otherwise they wouldn't be suitable factory workers. 0.55

00:13:44.760 First of all, that's a stupid theory because you actually want your factory workers to think so they can see what's wrong on the line and help you work to continuously improve your industrial processes. 0.86

00:13:55.060 The Japanese figured that out. 1.00

00:13:56.340 So it was a stupid theory to begin with. 1.00

00:13:58.180 But it's also dehumanizing. 1.00

00:13:59.760 And, you know, that's still the ethos of the public school system.

00:14:02.220 So that's appalling.

00:14:03.100 And then the next bit of, you know, impossible conspiratorial reality that I uncovered was, not that I uncovered it, you know, globally.

00:14:14.100 I don't mean that.

00:14:14.800 But for my own edification was that the food pyramid was formulated by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and it was a marketing ploy.

00:14:23.140 And they knew that it was going to cause an epidemic of obesity and diabetes because their own experts told them that.

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00:15:46.640 And those are, I don't even think those are particularly acute crises.

00:15:52.380 Those are sort of longstanding problems that it's not, oh my God, we've got to snuff this idea out before this election, like the Hunter Biden laptop.

00:16:01.380 Oh yeah, that's a dreadful story.

00:16:03.320 So what you're talking about are big swaths of ideas.

00:16:07.540 Right.

00:16:08.060 And then there's the crisis ideas like the ones you just described.

00:16:10.660 Which are so throttled around elections.

00:16:12.520 The Hunter Biden laptop story, that's another one too.

00:16:15.080 I talked to Miranda Devine.

00:16:16.560 She broke that story for the New York Post.

00:16:18.320 I've had her on as a guest twice.

00:16:19.620 And that's another story that's just completely unbelievable.

00:16:22.520 I mean, Hunter Biden dropped three laptops off.

00:16:25.660 Not one, three.

00:16:27.380 Now the first question you might ask yourself is, how do you water soap three laptops?

00:16:31.780 Right?

00:16:32.340 One, okay, you dropped it in the pool during your cocaine-fueled misery binge.

00:16:36.960 But three?

00:16:38.460 And he did that a week before his father announced his run for presidency.

00:16:41.900 And like a Freudian would sniff around that for about 15 years, and rightly so.

00:16:47.240 And then there was a lot of damning material on there, which you think he might have thought

00:16:51.440 about a little bit, unless he was out for revenge, let's say.

00:16:55.160 And then, well, then the story broke.

00:16:57.420 And then just a calamitous tsunami of absolute lies.

00:17:02.500 They knocked the New York Post off of Twitter.

00:17:05.040 And that's the oldest standing newspaper in North America.

00:17:09.700 I think Alexander Hamilton, I think.

00:17:10.680 Yeah, it's a bit tabloidy.

00:17:12.200 And nonetheless, it does some very good work.

00:17:15.460 And certainly the work it did on the Hunter Biden laptop story was good.

00:17:18.480 And then they called it Russian disinformation.

00:17:20.540 And this is like weeks before the election.

00:17:22.440 I truly believe that that was enough to throw the election.

00:17:26.560 Now, it turned out maybe that it was worse for the progressives that Trump had four years

00:17:32.060 to think in what would you call exile, you know, because here he's back and he's been

00:17:38.300 thinking for quite a while.

00:17:40.280 But, and then those intelligence agents signed that document that said it was, it had all

00:17:45.840 the earmarks of a Russian disinformation.

00:17:47.740 It's such a funny phrase.

00:17:48.940 That's for sure. 0.99

00:17:50.220 You know how conniving and miserable and wretched and deceitful and traitorous you have to be 1.00

00:17:55.740 to come up with a line like that? 0.98

00:17:57.260 It's like, well, we have to convince the American people that this is a hoax, but we know it

00:18:01.080 isn't a hoax.

00:18:01.760 So we have to walk the line very carefully. 0.96

00:18:03.700 So if it comes back to bite us in the ass, we can say, well, it would just, all we said 0.98

00:18:08.220 would have said that it had the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign, not that 0.99

00:18:12.340 it actually was one.

00:18:14.000 Hint, hint, wink, wink, you know.

00:18:16.220 And Zuckerberg, you know, I have some sympathy for Zuckerberg, actually.

00:18:20.580 I've talked to him and maybe I'm naive and it's certainly possible because I tend to

00:18:25.560 give people the benefit of the doubt.

00:18:26.840 But, you know, 10 years ago, if the White House came knocking at your door and said,

00:18:34.360 you're running a very complex operation here.

00:18:38.680 We have reason to believe that it has been compromised.

00:18:41.920 We'd like you to aid us in our investigations.

00:18:45.360 You know, you can think you would have been like free speech advocate number one and said

00:18:49.140 no, but most people will back off their free speech with a lot less pressure than that.

00:18:53.660 That's for sure.

00:18:54.500 And Zuckerberg definitely made mistakes.

00:18:56.760 And you could say that his admission of guilt, you know, in the Trump era is self-serving.

00:19:02.540 And I suppose you could, you know, that's something to consider.

00:19:07.300 But you have to be pretty damn sure yourself to think you would have done better.

00:19:11.880 I'm not trying to excuse it or what happened on Twitter, which was way worse.

00:19:15.960 Well, we only know what happened to Twitter because Elon Musk himself revealed that he

00:19:22.420 sort of opened up his own kimono to show the world.

00:19:27.180 I've got to think it was the same at YouTube, Google, Facebook, Instagram.

00:19:30.940 They just haven't been as forthcoming.

00:19:32.680 Elon Musk is unusual that way.

00:19:35.520 And what I find...

00:19:37.840 Well, and there is misinformation and disinformation campaigns.

00:19:40.700 It's not like TikTok isn't run by the Chinese communists and it's warped a whole generation 1.00

00:19:46.000 of young women because that's where they get all their information. 1.00

00:19:49.040 And 18 to 35 year old young women in the United States have political views that are way out

00:19:54.060 of alignment with everyone else's, hyper progressive and liberal.

00:19:57.340 And there's no doubt, there's absolutely no doubt that the Chinese communists are fomenting 0.97

00:20:02.080 discord using TikTok.

00:20:03.420 Obviously, clearly, in a documented way.

00:20:07.320 And they're tracking too, because today's 15 year old in five years will be 20 and maybe

00:20:12.140 he'll be a soldier then.

00:20:13.600 And maybe at 25, maybe he'll be...

00:20:16.560 Think of if you're tracking someone and all their conversations and all their networks

00:20:21.220 and all their friends, and if everything they say is being recorded from their gestures

00:20:25.520 to...

00:20:26.520 And if it's all being backed up in big data in Beijing, you're talking to a kid today,

00:20:32.440 but in 20 years from now, you've got some dirt on someone.

00:20:36.160 And I mean, TikTok is so addictive.

00:20:39.080 Elon Musk said the algorithm, he felt it pulling on his mind, he had to shut it down.

00:20:42.980 It was...

00:20:43.520 It's an amazing algorithm.

00:20:44.760 It knows what you like almost more than you do.

00:20:47.820 And that's what makes it so...

00:20:48.800 Probably more...

00:20:49.200 Certainly explicitly more than you do.

00:20:51.900 Definitely.

00:20:52.440 And the thing is...

00:20:53.040 People won't admit to what they like.

00:20:54.920 And not just that, maybe you forgot what you said in that phone call five years ago.

00:21:00.020 How can it forget?

00:21:01.040 It never forgets anything in some ways.

00:21:03.580 And there is some reason to be terrified about it.

00:21:06.280 But I think Donald Trump has decided if there's going to be AI, let it be in America rather

00:21:10.920 than in China.

00:21:12.600 Well, that's Musk's take on it too, is that this is a dreadful war, this AI war, because

00:21:17.820 these AI systems use reinforcement learning, and that's how biological systems learn.

00:21:23.000 They're very lifelike.

00:21:24.340 Very, very lifelike.

00:21:25.760 And their intelligence is limited only by their database and the amount of power at the moment

00:21:31.560 that's available.

00:21:32.700 Computation, computational ability, power, and the database.

00:21:36.480 And those are just growing like mad.

00:21:38.140 And so, yeah, it's clearly the case that these systems...

00:21:41.720 Well, in some ways, without AI advertisers, the successful ones knew more about your preferences

00:21:48.040 than you did.

00:21:48.980 But with AI, well, that's a whole different ballgame, especially when they're starting

00:21:52.820 to do things like analyze your eye movements, because eye movements are very, very indicative

00:21:57.000 of attentional focus, right?

00:21:59.040 They're almost a perfect window into the soul, which is why we look at each other's eyes

00:22:03.400 when we talk, right?

00:22:04.780 So these cameras on your phones can track your eyes with no problem.

00:22:08.820 Well, and then the AI systems will know more about what motivates each of us and all of

00:22:15.000 us than we will.

00:22:15.900 They probably already do.

00:22:18.040 So, yeah.

00:22:18.900 So Musk's take on that is, well, better him than the Chinese. 1.00

00:22:22.420 If it has to be someone, and it seems like it has to be, because what, are you going to

00:22:26.700 stop AI?

00:22:27.660 Good luck.

00:22:28.280 Look, there's no stopping it.

00:22:30.120 There's not even, there's not even hypothetically a way to stop it, because you can't even define

00:22:35.740 it, really.

00:22:36.720 Like, what are you going to do, make the mathematics illegal?

00:22:39.720 That's all statistics, by the way.

00:22:41.500 So that's gone.

00:22:42.580 No, that's not going to happen.

00:22:44.200 Let's go back to 2016.

00:22:46.280 Sure.

00:22:46.520 Okay.

00:22:46.880 So, yeah.

00:22:47.680 So that was a shock to me that day.

00:22:50.600 That was a free speech protest.

00:22:54.360 Now, that was advertised as mine, but it wasn't.

00:22:56.420 I was just invited to speak by a bunch of students, and I'd never been involved like

00:23:00.180 anything, anything like that on campus.

00:23:02.440 I wasn't a controversial figure politically by any stretch of the imagination, you know? 0.95

00:23:08.820 And, yeah, these bloody radicals showed up. 0.98

00:23:12.800 Well, first of all, the trans mob, so they were fun. 0.99

00:23:16.040 And these serious radical types.

00:23:19.380 And, yeah, they brought these white noise blasters to drown me out, and I can't remember

00:23:26.960 if I unplugged one, or if there was a rough guy there who unplugged it, and then there

00:23:31.780 was a bit of a skirmish around that.

00:23:33.840 It's like, because, I don't know, it's a tricky business.

00:23:38.000 Do I have the right to speak in public?

00:23:40.940 Does someone have a right to drown me out with white noise generator?

00:23:45.720 Well, it's not exactly obvious whose right triumphs in that particular instance.

00:23:49.620 It felt like a struggle session, in a way.

00:23:51.440 Oh, it was a struggle session.

00:23:52.380 Like a Maoist.

00:23:52.800 Bloody Maoists, yeah.

00:23:53.980 They were trying to put the hat on you and make you confess.

00:23:56.620 Oh, definitely.

00:23:57.540 Oh, definitely.

00:23:58.380 Yeah.

00:23:58.500 That didn't go so well.

00:23:59.640 And the university, I mean, if I recall, your grants, you always have.

00:24:03.840 Yeah.

00:24:04.280 And those were seats.

00:24:05.240 Yeah, it wasn't the university that did that, no.

00:24:06.740 That was the federal government, wasn't it?

00:24:08.040 Yeah, well, yeah.

00:24:09.000 Social sciences.

00:24:09.880 So, yeah.

00:24:10.440 So, one of your requirements as a professor, essentially, is to generate enough grant funding,

00:24:15.840 usually from federal agencies.

00:24:17.980 It's probably not a good idea, by the way, to keep your lab running to fund your graduate

00:24:23.220 students.

00:24:23.780 And there's small grants in Canada, but one thing I would say in favor of the Canadian

00:24:28.680 granting system is it doesn't take all your time to write the grants like it does in the

00:24:33.000 United States.

00:24:33.640 Because, anyways, not only does that fund your graduate students, some travel and some research

00:24:39.680 costs, there's nothing in it that's personal, but it also funds the university to some degree

00:24:45.880 because they take overhead costs.

00:24:48.000 And I always got a grant.

00:24:50.180 I had an ungroup.

00:24:50.900 Until?

00:24:51.540 Until then.

00:24:51.960 Until.

00:24:52.520 Oh, yeah.

00:24:52.880 That wasn't accidental.

00:24:54.080 I mean, it wasn't like I was a good researcher.

00:24:56.440 I had an excellent research dossier.

00:24:59.760 And, yeah, I don't know if I'm the most cited clinical psychologist in Canada, but I've got

00:25:05.720 to be in the top 10 still, by the way.

00:25:11.180 So, there was absolutely no reason for them to pull my funding, but they did.

00:25:15.140 That's right.

00:25:15.600 And then you did a fundraising campaign, right?

00:25:18.980 Right.

00:25:19.380 Yeah.

00:25:19.560 You know what?

00:25:22.300 This is one of those cases where the people were on one side and the institutions were

00:25:28.180 another.

00:25:28.480 That's where crowdfunding works sometimes.

00:25:30.880 Yeah, right.

00:25:31.380 Where it's sort of an 80-20 kind of thing.

00:25:33.940 I mean, transgenderism in sports is another example of that.

00:25:37.420 All the institutions are on one side and the people are on the other.

00:25:42.160 Trump.

00:25:42.640 Like pipelines in Canada.

00:25:44.220 I think so.

00:25:45.120 It's 80-20, by the way.

00:25:46.600 And I think people, I don't think a lot of grassroots people think about government grants

00:25:52.240 for scholarship and academia, but they could see that you were being punished for it in

00:25:57.620 a way that was designed to hurt you.

00:26:00.120 So, severely normal people said, well, we're going to, we did crowdfund sort of a replacement

00:26:04.780 for that.

00:26:07.000 That's where I met Lauren, too, that day.

00:26:09.080 She was quite the creature.

00:26:10.820 She wasn't very old then.

00:26:12.040 She was only about 18.

00:26:13.120 Very young.

00:26:14.160 She's had a rough time.

00:26:15.380 Man, she's been through the mill, that girl.

00:26:18.020 Rebel News has met some colorful characters over the years.

00:26:20.560 That's for sure.

00:26:21.220 You're one of them.

00:26:21.980 That's for sure.

00:26:23.020 Yeah.

00:26:23.460 I mean, I think you've...

00:26:25.340 You guys have roused a lot of rabble.

00:26:27.740 But I think that's healthier than the alternative, which is a conformity.

00:26:32.620 In these controversial days, air it out.

00:26:35.620 Hear it out.

00:26:36.380 Let the both sides clash.

00:26:38.260 And that's what YouTube was like.

00:26:39.760 That's what's...

00:26:40.380 We got rolling with what we called citizen journalism.

00:26:43.160 Remember, we call it that now.

00:26:44.520 Yeah, you were early adopters of that.

00:26:46.200 I used to be with a real TV station called Sun News Network.

00:26:50.740 There were 200 folks.

00:26:52.200 It had real studios across the country.

00:26:54.860 My studio in Toronto was a million-dollar studio with five people working in the control

00:27:00.300 room.

00:27:00.540 It was a real operation.

00:27:02.300 And a billionaire named Pierre-Carlo Pelletot put a ton of dough into it.

00:27:06.300 But it was sort of euthanized by Canada's TV regulator, the CRTC.

00:27:11.980 Well, in the end, the TV network had to do deals with different cable companies.

00:27:20.360 Will you carry it?

00:27:21.360 What channel will you carry it on?

00:27:23.400 Will you...

00:27:24.300 How much will you charge customers for it?

00:27:26.780 How much will you pass on to Rebel News?

00:27:28.300 And all of these things are regulated.

00:27:30.900 And so the regulator basically euthanized it and said, we're going to give you a few...

00:27:36.220 Regulators turn into censors at the drop of a hat.

00:27:39.640 It's happened in the universities, so...

00:27:41.360 And in the UK, they're off-call.

00:27:43.100 They have a...

00:27:43.740 Right, right, right.

00:27:44.760 Especially with media.

00:27:45.700 That's how you can kill it.

00:27:46.860 Yeah. 0.97

00:27:47.300 And they killed Sun News.

00:27:48.580 And I resolved that I would never put myself in a position where a government regulator

00:27:53.080 could do that to us again.

00:27:54.180 So we went all internet.

00:27:55.580 We didn't try and do anything in a real TV or real radio.

00:27:58.880 Right.

00:27:59.200 But in the last couple of years...

00:28:00.620 So what was your...

00:28:01.800 Okay, you talked about some of your motivation for doing that on the bureaucrat side, let's

00:28:06.180 say.

00:28:07.020 Why...

00:28:07.500 How do you think it was that you saw that that opportunity existed on YouTube?

00:28:11.620 You know, I started putting my lectures on YouTube, I think, in 2012 or 2013.

00:28:16.780 It was really an experiment, right?

00:28:18.480 What the hell is this video on demand?

00:28:20.460 It was all cute cat videos at that point, right?

00:28:22.560 It looked like nothing.

00:28:23.620 That was before Google bought it.

00:28:25.400 But I thought, well, huh, on-demand video, eh?

00:28:29.740 Permanent.

00:28:30.680 That's a revolution, man.

00:28:31.920 That's a revolution.

00:28:32.940 So what were you thinking about in relationship?

00:28:35.100 Was it specifically YouTube that you gravitated towards first?

00:28:37.860 Well, yes, because I had a YouTube experience that, I'm going to say, saved my life, maybe

00:28:42.700 five years or almost 10 years earlier.

00:28:45.560 Let me tell you the story really quick.

00:28:46.920 I was the publisher of a print magazine called The Western Standard.

00:28:50.960 You know, we would print it on paper and mail it out every two weeks.

00:28:54.000 It's even hard to imagine such a thing existed now.

00:28:57.200 And this was when the Danish cartoons of the Muslim prophet Mohammed caused such a fuss overseas.

00:29:04.200 I think that was late 2005.

00:29:06.220 Yeah, right.

00:29:06.800 And you're not supposed to print an image of Mohammed.

00:29:09.920 That's right.

00:29:10.340 Well, at least there's some interpretations of Islam that make that claim.

00:29:13.760 Right.

00:29:13.960 And the noisy ones definitely make that claim.

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00:30:21.140 So there were riots around the world.

00:30:23.360 Over 200 people killed.

00:30:24.640 Yeah.

00:30:24.880 And every mainstream media outlet panicked and refused to show it.

00:30:29.900 The Wall Street Journal, CNN, New York Times.

00:30:31.920 Yeah.

00:30:32.220 And so that actually added menace to it.

00:30:34.440 Wow, they'll print anything.

00:30:35.600 They won't show what these cartoons are like.

00:30:37.420 They must be awful.

00:30:38.920 Yeah.

00:30:39.080 No, in fact, they were pretty banal, nothing more controversial than what you'd see on the cartoon, political cartoons in any major newspaper on any subject.

00:30:47.700 Yeah.

00:30:47.980 So we had this little magazine called The Western Standard, 40,000 subscribers based in Western Canada.

00:30:54.360 And we were fortnightly.

00:30:55.720 So we're not hot on the news.

00:30:57.000 So I thought, okay, by the time we published, I thought, everyone else will have shown the cartoons.

00:31:01.720 So we're not going to go with ta-da, here's what they are. 1.00

00:31:04.080 We'll be more analytical.

00:31:04.980 And we made the point you just did, not all Muslims hold, that you can't depict more of it.

00:31:09.880 We did sort of a think piece kind of thing.

00:31:12.520 The cartoon was not on the cover.

00:31:13.920 It was tucked inside.

00:31:15.420 But by the time this came off the printing presses, it was clear we were the only people in the country that were going to do this.

00:31:21.800 Yeah, almost the only people in the world.

00:31:23.960 Very few did.

00:31:25.060 Yeah, very few, man.

00:31:26.000 There were like three news outlets, I think, three or four.

00:31:28.880 You were one of them.

00:31:29.600 And our phones rang off the hook.

00:31:32.160 A lot of people who called at the time were Muslim, I would say, exiles who said, I didn't come to Canada to have Sharia law follow me across the world.

00:31:41.680 I found that very encouraging.

00:31:43.600 And mostly people just appreciated the fact that we let them decide.

00:31:47.960 And we didn't show the cartoons saying we agree with them.

00:31:50.840 It was more like a prosecutor puts evidence to a jury.

00:31:53.640 Oh, it's news.

00:31:54.520 It was obviously news.

00:31:55.700 Yeah, exactly.

00:31:56.820 And if you're in the radio business, you paint a picture with your words.

00:32:00.200 But when you have a printing press, you show it.

00:32:02.460 So we showed it.

00:32:03.780 And it was wonderful.

00:32:05.540 But then the Alberta Human Rights Commission, which is a government agency.

00:32:09.620 Another commission, by the way, that does nothing like what its name says it does.

00:32:13.700 Exactly.

00:32:14.260 Exactly.

00:32:15.720 Because there's no such thing as the right not to be offended.

00:32:19.180 That's a counterfeit human right.

00:32:21.180 That's actually, you're torturing the language.

00:32:25.820 That's a power to silence.

00:32:27.240 Well, that's exactly.

00:32:28.320 That right, my right to not be offended by you.

00:32:31.100 It's my right to control your tongue.

00:32:32.860 We have the right to be offended.

00:32:34.680 And just stop and think about that for a minute.

00:32:36.640 In some parts of the world, you're not allowed to be offended by things.

00:32:39.020 You're not allowed to express your outrage at things.

00:32:41.500 You have to suck it up.

00:32:42.440 In Canada, we have the right to be offended.

00:32:44.220 Right, right.

00:32:44.640 Not the right not to be offended.

00:32:45.880 So, a radical imam. 0.51

00:32:49.540 Yeah, well, it was illegal in the Soviet Union to complain about your own pain.

00:32:53.540 And that's the thing.

00:32:54.800 The answer is, where does hatred come from?

00:33:00.140 Because I was charged, I still to this day remember the wording of the law under which I was charged by the Alberta Human Rights Commission.

00:33:07.120 And it is against the law to publish anything, quote, likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt.

00:33:16.940 Have you read Bill C-63?

00:33:19.040 Very closely.

00:33:19.900 Oh, my God.

00:33:20.540 You think Carney will pass that when he gets coronated?

00:33:23.940 Well, he hasn't indicated that he won't.

00:33:27.400 Let me tell you what's terrifying about that.

00:33:29.740 Likely to.

00:33:30.320 So, that's a future crime.

00:33:31.560 Yeah, yeah, right.

00:33:32.400 So, how do you defend against a future crime?

00:33:34.060 Now, there are some future crimes in our criminal code, uttering a death threat, I suppose, is a future crime.

00:33:38.420 Attempted something, something.

00:33:40.080 But likely to what?

00:33:42.760 Punch someone?

00:33:43.440 That's very measurable.

00:33:44.660 No, likely to expose a person to hatred or contempt.

00:33:50.060 So, you're going to do something that's likely to cause him to have hard feelings about him.

00:33:56.100 And how do you measure that?

00:33:57.340 And what's likely to?

00:33:58.740 And by the way, truth is not a defense.

00:34:02.180 What's truth got to do with it?

00:34:03.220 You caused him to have hard feelings about him.

00:34:05.100 That's the truth.

00:34:06.200 That's the new definition of truth, fundamentally.

00:34:08.760 So, you know, that was a canary in the coal mine.

00:34:11.740 You fought that for how long?

00:34:13.560 I was pursued for 900 days.

00:34:17.920 And the apex of that was we managed to convince the interrogator for the Alberta Human Rights Commission to allow us to make a record of my interrogation.

00:34:27.500 Now, we didn't say radio.

00:34:28.780 So, it was in my lawyer's office.

00:34:30.560 It was on a Friday afternoon.

00:34:32.600 And we managed to convince the interrogator to come to us.

00:34:35.900 So, we had set up.

00:34:37.020 It was conspicuous.

00:34:37.860 It wasn't hidden.

00:34:38.480 We had set up a camera.

00:34:40.220 This was before smartphones.

00:34:42.820 This was—I had never used a camera before.

00:34:45.560 And we sat it up in the room.

00:34:48.920 So, the interrogator comes in.

00:34:50.640 She looks at the camera.

00:34:51.940 You can see she's sort of hesitating for a second.

00:34:54.380 But it's Friday afternoon, and we had been negotiating this meeting for months.

00:34:57.380 So, she just sits down, and she proceeds to grill me.

00:35:00.120 Yeah.

00:35:00.620 Yeah.

00:35:00.800 And what do you think her first question was?

00:35:04.280 It was, why did you publish the cartoons?

00:35:08.260 Now, the thing is, if anyone else had asked me that question, I probably did 100 media interviews.

00:35:13.160 I would try and be the most reasonable version of me I could be.

00:35:16.320 I would try and explain it.

00:35:17.860 Separation of mosque and state. 0.88

00:35:19.340 It's the central artifact in a news story.

00:35:21.920 We have to talk this out.

00:35:23.800 I would try and be as reasonable as possible.

00:35:26.080 I talked to a lot of Muslim folks, and I tried to say, no, please understand why this was—I was trying to appeal to their reason.

00:35:35.220 But when the government asks you the same question, you can't answer in the same way.

00:35:39.720 Because the government is not asking out of curiosity or out of intellectual growth.

00:35:45.380 Right, right.

00:35:45.820 They're asking because something turns on it.

00:35:48.380 Right.

00:35:48.700 Punishment turns on it.

00:35:50.100 If you don't appease them and say the right answer, you will be punished.

00:35:55.460 Yep.

00:35:55.740 And so you can't answer the same way.

00:35:57.820 And so I remember what I said.

00:35:59.100 I said, because it's my bloody right to do so.

00:36:03.200 And I'm not trying to convince you and wiggle through.

00:36:05.740 I want my maximum freedom.

00:36:08.340 And I recorded this on this video camera.

00:36:11.760 And I went home that day.

00:36:14.000 And I managed somehow to edit that video I'd never done in my life.

00:36:18.040 And I set up a YouTube account.

00:36:20.280 I'd never done that in my life.

00:36:21.880 This was when YouTube was pretty new.

00:36:23.880 There was no social media back then.

00:36:25.260 There was no Facebook, no Twitter or anything like that.

00:36:28.300 And I uploaded the video of my interrogation because I knew no one would believe me if I said a magazine publisher was just grilled for one hour about my political and religious views.

00:36:40.140 Yeah.

00:36:40.400 That was a crucial case.

00:36:42.440 Yeah.

00:36:42.600 And people, that went viral.

00:36:45.620 Right.

00:36:46.020 Before viral was a thing, really.

00:36:47.960 Hundreds of thousands.

00:36:49.020 What year was that?

00:36:50.160 I think it was 08.

00:36:52.200 Oh, yeah.

00:36:52.640 That's really early.

00:36:54.220 That's really early.

00:36:55.880 Right.

00:36:56.280 So, that clued you into the power of that media.

00:36:59.540 The asymmetry of it.

00:37:01.080 The asymmetry.

00:37:02.580 Here's, there were more than a dozen bureaucrats and lawyers for the Alberta Human Rights Commission coming for me.

00:37:08.240 And the complainant, this radical imam, didn't have to pay a cent. 0.98

00:37:11.540 Yeah.

00:37:11.780 And his complaint was so laughable, he cited as a legal basis, he was citing passages from the Koran.

00:37:17.980 He said he personally was a descendant of Muhammad and I had offended him.

00:37:21.240 And I thought, oh, for sure this is going to be thrown out.

00:37:23.780 No, it was not.

00:37:25.200 Yeah.

00:37:25.380 A dozen people, I mean, human rights is the middle name of the Alberta Human Rights Commission.

00:37:29.160 They were anything but.

00:37:29.980 I would have been flattened.

00:37:31.220 Yeah, they're anything but.

00:37:32.580 I would have been flattened.

00:37:34.380 But the internet saved me.

00:37:35.840 I was, that blogging was a thing back then.

00:37:38.460 And PayPal was new.

00:37:41.500 So, that's how I funded my lawyer.

00:37:44.660 The Western Standard Magazine came to an end, as all magazines sort of did around then.

00:37:49.100 So, I didn't have the dough to fight this.

00:37:51.700 Do you know what it cost you?

00:37:53.740 You know what I, it was, it was close to 100 grand.

00:37:56.960 Yeah.

00:37:57.480 And that's in 2008.

00:37:58.700 It was like $10 million now.

00:38:01.620 They, it was fascinating to deal with them.

00:38:05.560 They are so used to making deals with rational business people who say, there's no way I'm going to win here.

00:38:12.560 Yeah.

00:38:12.880 Just pay it out and get it over.

00:38:14.540 They offered me, they said, if you pay that imam, I think it was like eight grand.

00:38:18.080 Yeah.

00:38:18.380 And give him a page in the magazine to write whatever he wants, we'll let you go.

00:38:23.560 And they assumed that would take it.

00:38:24.780 And any rational decision maker would have taken that deal.

00:38:28.700 Instead of fighting, you're not going to win.

00:38:30.540 Look at the law.

00:38:31.700 Depends on what you mean by win.

00:38:33.340 Well, that's right.

00:38:34.540 And, and we can talk a little bit more about my friend Tommy Robinson.

00:38:38.080 Yeah.

00:38:38.480 Yeah.

00:38:38.760 In a way, he is irrational too, if the idea is to save yourself.

00:38:43.080 Yeah.

00:38:43.260 Like he was in court in the UK.

00:38:44.920 I sat there and I watched the judge say to him, will you take down that video?

00:38:49.240 It was shortly after you interviewed him.

00:38:51.100 Yeah.

00:38:51.320 He put up a video on Twitter.

00:38:52.780 A judge said, don't do it.

00:38:54.100 Don't do it.

00:38:54.980 He did it.

00:38:55.820 Yeah.

00:38:56.080 He was brought before the judge.

00:38:57.320 I'm switching gears now.

00:38:58.360 Yeah.

00:38:58.480 And the judge, and he was in the dark and the, and the judge said, I'm going to give

00:39:02.440 you the maximum sentence.

00:39:03.680 The video had been seen 55 million times.

00:39:06.560 Yeah.

00:39:06.740 The judge said, you take it down now.

00:39:08.300 I'm going to lop.

00:39:09.320 Silenced.

00:39:10.140 That's right.

00:39:11.660 And Tommy wouldn't bend the knee.

00:39:13.360 Yeah.

00:39:13.940 Well, he was out of the country too.

00:39:15.180 And he went back for his trial.

00:39:16.280 He went back.

00:39:17.040 He was in Spain.

00:39:17.620 We talked about that, you know, and well, we, we discussed the pros and cons of him staying

00:39:23.280 away or going back to face the music, you know, and well, you know, Socrates, when he

00:39:29.180 was sentenced to death by the Athenians, they thought he'd run.

00:39:33.340 Like they told him, we're going to try you six months from now, hint, hint, wink, wink.

00:39:38.400 Why don't you get out of town?

00:39:39.680 You trouble some old goat, you know, because otherwise, you know, the ax is going to fall. 1.00

00:39:44.320 And he went out and had a little discussion with his conscience and it said, don't run.

00:39:49.680 Yeah.

00:39:50.340 Well, I visited Tommy in Spain and came back with him on the flight because we thought

00:39:54.860 he would be landed the minute he, the rest of the minute he landed.

00:39:57.620 They waited a few days and they picked him up strategically so he could not attend a rally.

00:40:03.200 Oh yeah.

00:40:03.840 And here's the, let me talk about that moment just for one second.

00:40:08.340 Tommy has flaws, but he also has within him a gleaming diamond that is rare.

00:40:12.340 And let me tell you what that is.

00:40:13.300 The video had been seen 55 million times.

00:40:15.920 The judge was saying, if you take it down now, you'll go home to your family months earlier.

00:40:22.400 And I'll confess, I said to Tommy, I said, look, brother, you've had the most watched documentary

00:40:27.680 film ever produced in the UK.

00:40:29.820 That's the biggest win of all time.

00:40:32.160 Take it down and don't be away from your family.

00:40:34.640 Yeah.

00:40:34.940 And I said that to him as a friend.

00:40:36.560 I said, you have the biggest win you can, 55 million views.

00:40:40.620 He said, no.

00:40:41.540 Now it has over 150 million views and the world is talking about it, including Elon Musk himself

00:40:49.140 who retweeted it.

00:40:50.620 And see, the law isn't used to dealing with people who are not rationalizing, maximizing

00:40:58.420 the optimal outcome for reducing pain.

00:41:00.920 No, the optimal outcome for reducing immediate pain.

00:41:05.780 Right.

00:41:06.080 That's a big difference, man.

00:41:07.720 And so they thought I was going to take the deal back in 2008 to let this imam have a page 0.52

00:41:14.180 in the magazine rather than to fight a six-figure fight for three years.

00:41:18.260 Yeah.

00:41:18.640 And with Tommy, they thought he would bend the knee and take that thing down.

00:41:21.640 Instead, he said, no, I'll hold fast.

00:41:23.980 Yeah.

00:41:24.380 And so he's still in the clink.

00:41:26.520 By the way, they have him in solitary confinement.

00:41:29.220 Yeah.

00:41:29.360 They cleared out the whole segregation block. 0.90

00:41:31.620 He's the only prisoner in there.

00:41:33.500 He's in his cell 21 hours a day.

00:41:35.680 He's allowed out to have a shower.

00:41:37.460 He's allowed out to ride a stationary bike and to sort of a homemade gym.

00:41:42.540 The rest of the time, he is in isolation.

00:41:44.560 It's been over 100 days.

00:41:45.900 Right.

00:41:46.180 Now, they've also forbade anyone with a social media following to visit him, which is a weird,

00:41:51.200 like, what does that mean, a social media following?

00:41:52.960 I just got that letter.

00:41:54.020 Like, three people?

00:41:54.980 A thousand people?

00:41:56.200 Everyone has a social media following.

00:41:57.800 Yeah, right.

00:41:58.340 And by the way, a lot of his friends happen to be in there.

00:42:02.560 Of course.

00:42:02.680 I was scheduled to go and visit him on February 16th.

00:42:05.540 Yeah.

00:42:06.360 And I just got a letter from the prison governor saying, we understand you have a social media

00:42:10.000 presence, and we're not going to let you in.

00:42:12.820 The trouble with that is, these visitors, I mean, I'm interested to hear how he's doing.

00:42:17.380 Yeah.

00:42:17.660 Do you know how he's doing?

00:42:19.400 Well, I hear from his family, and there are some, and he's deteriorating.

00:42:24.700 Well, yeah, no doubt.

00:42:26.060 You cannot spend, it is a form of mental torture.

00:42:28.980 It is, solitary confinement is how you punish a prisoner who's always already in prison.

00:42:33.960 You can punish a psychopath with solitary confinement.

00:42:37.300 That's how punishing it is.

00:42:38.640 You can take the most antisocial person in the world and put him in solitary, and he's

00:42:46.000 social enough so that that's a punishment, right?

00:42:48.140 A serious punishment.

00:42:49.760 But it's limited.

00:42:50.280 Now, they have him in a maximum security prison, too.

00:42:52.440 There are murderers in that prison. 0.89

00:42:54.240 I visited him once before they brought in this no visitors rule.

00:42:58.340 Yeah.

00:42:58.500 And it was quite something to get through this labyrinth of doors.

00:43:02.560 I met with him early, and he was in high enough spirits in the first month.

00:43:06.840 Now he's in his fourth month there.

00:43:08.560 He's got five more?

00:43:09.660 That's right.

00:43:10.360 And he's falling apart.

00:43:11.440 Here's the problem with banning visitors.

00:43:13.540 Yeah.

00:43:14.060 He doesn't know what's going on, eh?

00:43:15.560 Not just that.

00:43:16.380 But the visitors want to visit for their own sake.

00:43:19.240 I want to talk to him about certain things.

00:43:21.280 I want to report back certain things on his health.

00:43:24.720 But from his point of view, he needs the visitors to stay sane.

00:43:28.480 Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:43:29.400 And he has certain visiting slots.

00:43:31.660 His family cannot fill them all.

00:43:33.160 His family is living a life.

00:43:34.880 His kids are in school.

00:43:35.940 And so there, I was in court when the judge meted out the sentence.

00:43:41.300 The judge gave him the maximum sentence allowed by law to be served in solitary.

00:43:46.780 No such thing.

00:43:48.220 The killer, the Southport murderer.

00:43:49.920 Now, my understanding is that he requested solitary.

00:43:54.680 No, untrue.

00:43:56.120 Okay, so walk me through.

00:43:57.560 Okay, so what I garnered or gleaned was that because the prison was so dangerous and was

00:44:05.000 full of the sort of people, let's say, that might not be all that happy about Mr. Robinson,

00:44:09.020 like the last prison he was in where he got beat up very badly, that he needed protection.

00:44:13.660 But you're telling me that's not true.

00:44:15.360 In fact, he always says, put me in the ward, put me in the wing, and I'll fend for myself

00:44:20.540 and it's on you, prison.

00:44:21.660 The prison are putting, the prison don't know what to do with them.

00:44:25.440 Because you're correct to say in the UK, they're run by the gangs.

00:44:28.460 Yeah, because it's a civil offense, right?

00:44:30.300 That's right.

00:44:30.420 He's a civil prisoner.

00:44:31.180 He didn't even, it wasn't a crime what he did.

00:44:33.860 In the United States, you have different kinds of gangs and prisons. 0.88

00:44:37.020 There's the white gangs, the black gangs, the Latino gangs. 0.87

00:44:39.960 You go to a gang for protection. 1.00

00:44:41.880 In the UK, by far the dominant gangs are the Muslim gangs. 0.76

00:44:44.720 Right, right.

00:44:45.340 In fact, you convert to join.

00:44:47.760 Uh-huh.

00:44:48.300 And the thing is, Tommy Robinson is a skeptic and a critic of Islam.

00:44:52.360 And anyone who would put a knife into him would be a hero in the community forever.

00:44:57.360 Yeah, right.

00:44:58.000 And so there are some ways to imprison such a man, especially if he's a civil prisoner.

00:45:02.640 It's not a crime that he's in jail for.

00:45:04.540 He put a video up.

00:45:05.600 And let's get back to fact checkers for one second.

00:45:08.140 Let me say this.

00:45:10.100 The judge said, what you put, what you're going to put online is not admissible in court.

00:45:15.440 I reject it as the truth because it was not admissible in court under these rules of civil

00:45:20.480 procedure.

00:45:21.520 Okay, fair enough, judge.

00:45:23.360 But that doesn't mean it's not true.

00:45:25.480 And that doesn't mean it's not useful.

00:45:27.280 And we don't all have to seek truth through a particular legal system where lawyers and

00:45:34.000 judges determine what you're allowed to see and what you're not allowed to see.

00:45:36.740 So what's happening is there's a battle between Tommy Robinson and the government of the United

00:45:41.760 Kingdom over what is true.

00:45:43.340 And a judge says, in my courtroom, where Tommy did not have a lawyer, where he was sort of

00:45:48.900 doing homemade law, you were not allowed to bring certain evidence into the trial.

00:45:52.640 And so you're not allowed to put him in a different forum where you're more adept, a social media

00:45:58.600 video.

00:45:59.280 How is that anything other than a brutal fact check?

00:46:03.340 And when Tommy Robinson didn't accept it, solitary confinement, he'll serve nine months in

00:46:07.920 solitary.

00:46:08.500 I don't know anyone other than Julian Assange who's done that.

00:46:12.080 And there really is a two-

00:46:14.360 Where's the prison?

00:46:15.360 It's called Woodhill.

00:46:16.320 It's in a town called Milton Keynes.

00:46:20.020 It's about a 90-minute drive from Heathrow Airport.

00:46:23.740 And I'm still hoping to go in.

00:46:25.320 I wrote back to the prison governor just yesterday saying, look, I'll sign an NDA, which is obscene.

00:46:30.960 Right, right.

00:46:31.980 And who is this prison governor?

00:46:34.560 Who is she to say, I can't say what Tommy said and I can't say what I see, but I want

00:46:38.900 to actually put eyes on him.

00:46:39.960 Especially outside the UK.

00:46:41.980 It's just unheard of.

00:46:43.280 Yeah.

00:46:43.700 But I want to put eyes on him.

00:46:44.960 I want to see what he's doing.

00:46:46.780 Absolutely.

00:46:47.660 And they are delaying and delaying.

00:46:51.800 You know what? 0.92

00:46:52.520 They would like him to die in prison.

00:46:55.080 That would be a mistake.

00:46:57.020 I think so.

00:46:57.640 And what I've learned, my advice to him three months ago was take the video down and don't

00:47:02.980 go to jail for so long.

00:47:04.160 Declare victory.

00:47:05.480 But his victory is magnified much more.

00:47:07.720 And so they don't know how to deal with him.

00:47:09.860 I want to tell you one more Tommy story.

00:47:11.280 And I know I talk about him a lot.

00:47:12.640 No, no, I want you to do that.

00:47:14.160 I go to the UK and I know you do too.

00:47:16.700 And I think we love it for similar reasons.

00:47:18.780 It's the source of our language and our culture and our history.

00:47:21.480 The source of our freedom.

00:47:22.440 It's common law.

00:47:23.380 You know, I'm in love with the place.

00:47:25.320 Yep.

00:47:25.720 Me too.

00:47:26.360 Absolutely.

00:47:27.040 I can't get enough.

00:47:29.080 But it's also, my trips there, I call them a dystopian time machine.

00:47:32.880 When I go to the UK, I see what our future will be five years down the road if we don't

00:47:36.180 change course on matters like mass immigration that is not culturally.

00:47:41.220 Net zero.

00:47:41.840 They're what they call ULES, ultra low emission zones in the cameras.

00:47:46.300 Which means peasants don't get cars.

00:47:48.520 That's what ULES means.

00:47:49.680 It doesn't mean you have cleaner air, folks. 1.00

00:47:51.940 It means you can stay in your goddamn house and freeze to death in the dark. 0.99

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00:48:23.440 But you can also see what the dissidents are like.

00:48:25.840 Tommy Robinson being one dissident.

00:48:27.520 They have the things there, people who call themselves blade runners.

00:48:30.700 Yeah.

00:48:31.060 Who go out with metal cutting saws who take down those surveillance cameras in less than a minute.

00:48:36.540 We don't approve of the blade runners.

00:48:37.780 No, no, we absolutely don't.

00:48:39.300 That's right.

00:48:39.720 Just so everyone knows, we certainly don't approve of the blade runners.

00:48:42.780 It's amazing to see.

00:48:43.920 I mean, remember what Orwell said.

00:48:47.460 If there's any hope, it's with the proles.

00:48:49.540 Yeah, right.

00:48:50.520 Because the-

00:48:51.220 That's what left-wingers used to believe, you know, back when they were on the left.

00:48:55.120 Instead of wherever the hell they are now, in the pockets of the WEF.

00:48:59.020 Tommy used to work for Rebel News back in the day.

00:49:00.840 I mentioned we had some colorful characters.

00:49:02.840 You name it.

00:49:03.600 They passed the doors of Rebel News.

00:49:04.940 You and Menzies, too.

00:49:06.100 Oh, he's still with us.

00:49:07.120 He's the best.

00:49:07.600 Yeah.

00:49:07.900 How many times has he been arrested now?

00:49:09.800 Five times last year alone.

00:49:10.960 In Canada.

00:49:11.600 In Canada.

00:49:12.140 For being a journalist.

00:49:13.020 How many times have you been arrested?

00:49:15.260 Just once.

00:49:16.380 Just once.

00:49:17.060 You haven't worked on that.

00:49:18.340 But I was arrested.

00:49:19.360 I was on the street near my neighborhood.

00:49:21.280 I live in a fairly Jewish-

00:49:22.260 This is in Toronto.

00:49:23.020 In Toronto.

00:49:24.100 Jewish neighborhood in Toronto.

00:49:25.220 That's fun.

00:49:25.980 Yeah.

00:49:26.460 And whoever thought we'd say that in Canada?

00:49:28.440 Let me tell you what went down there, because it bothers me to this day.

00:49:33.460 Every week, some Jews would wave Israeli and Canadian flags for the hostages who were being held by Hamas.

00:49:40.100 In a Jewish neighborhood, on a Jewish street corner, it was an attempt to be positive.

00:49:44.900 And they'd been doing that for more than a year.

00:49:47.340 A few months ago, Hamas supporters were driving all the way in from far away every Sunday on the opposite side of the street to have a counter demonstration with anti-Semitic signs, loudspeakers shouting insane, you know, from the river to the sea, swastikas.

00:50:07.480 And then one day, they had someone reenact Yaya Sinwar's final moments.

00:50:15.080 He was the head of Hamas, who was found in a chair.

00:50:18.700 So they brought this bloody chair and this guy with the-

00:50:22.020 How was he killed?

00:50:23.080 He was killed, but I don't know what finally did him in, but there was a drone photograph of his- drone video of his final moments.

00:50:30.620 I see.

00:50:30.920 So they were reenacting- it would be like reenacting Hitler's bunker or something. 0.62

00:50:37.480 And I just thought, this is crazy.

00:50:39.540 And there were so many cops there.

00:50:40.860 And I'm not particularly a fan of hate speech laws.

00:50:43.640 Yeah, right.

00:50:44.160 But they're on the books.

00:50:45.360 Yeah, they're appalling.

00:50:46.580 And I don't know what more you need than this.

00:50:49.360 So I went there just to take a pic.

00:50:50.640 I didn't go there to counter-protest.

00:50:52.260 This is in my neighborhood.

00:50:53.540 I saw it on social media.

00:50:54.680 Had you been at those sorts of protests before?

00:50:56.900 I had been to record because it's just astonishing.

00:51:01.740 But that day, I was at home.

00:51:04.060 I had no plans to go because it's every single weekend.

00:51:06.620 But I thought, are they really reenacting this Hamas moment? 0.92

00:51:11.460 So I went there and I said to the cops, I've got to take a picture of that.

00:51:14.840 And the first cops sort of escorted me in.

00:51:16.700 And when the Hamas types objected, they sort of pushed me out, which I didn't like. 0.88

00:51:21.360 Objected on what grounds?

00:51:23.960 That I'm Jewish.

00:51:24.980 You can't take a picture of their protest? 0.59

00:51:26.900 Why the hell are they protesting?

00:51:27.880 You can't take a picture of it. 0.58

00:51:29.540 Protest at home.

00:51:30.660 I was escorted away.

00:51:31.620 I'm on the public sidewalk in my neighborhood.

00:51:34.400 There's a wall of 30 cops between me and the Hamas types. 1.00

00:51:37.980 And I'm sort of fussed because the cops pushed me away.

00:51:42.020 But I'll never push a cop. 0.76

00:51:44.280 I'm not that dumb. 0.96

00:51:45.980 And then the top cop says, those protesters object to you being here. 0.97

00:51:51.620 I said, I don't care.

00:51:53.060 He said, your presence could incite them to breach the peace.

00:51:58.920 Oh, yeah.

00:51:59.160 I said, well, that's on them.

00:52:00.180 That's for sure.

00:52:01.440 Public sidewalk, my neighborhood.

00:52:04.200 The cops said, if you don't leave now, I'm arresting you.

00:52:07.140 I said, on what grounds?

00:52:08.700 On your presence here is inciting them to breach the peace.

00:52:13.540 Yeah, that's a crime?

00:52:15.340 It is not a crime.

00:52:16.880 In fact, I was not charged, but I was handcuffed, frog marched to a police car, searched, put in

00:52:22.380 the back of the police car, driven to jail, searched again, put in a cell.

00:52:27.780 What was that like?

00:52:29.480 Well, I knew it was BS.

00:52:31.800 And my friend, my colleague, David Menzies.

00:52:33.920 Were you mad at the cops?

00:52:35.760 I was very mad at the cops who arrested me.

00:52:38.440 The ones who obeyed and handcuffed me, I'm not going to be mad at them.

00:52:43.160 They were doing their job.

00:52:45.100 When I was at the jail, you know, the guys in the jail had nothing to do with my arrest.

00:52:49.320 So I was lighthearted, you know?

00:52:51.780 I mean, and that's another thing about being in jail I've learned from Tommy Robinson is

00:52:56.120 you are at the mercy of these guards.

00:52:58.620 You are at the physical mercy of them.

00:53:00.740 That's, to me, that's the most terrifying thing about prison is that they can do whatever

00:53:05.900 they want to you.

00:53:06.760 And what are you going to say about it?

00:53:09.820 And what are you going to do about it?

00:53:11.300 And if they...

00:53:11.820 Especially if nobody can visit you.

00:53:13.580 That's right.

00:53:14.420 Who can...

00:53:14.920 Communicate.

00:53:15.520 Exactly right.

00:53:16.660 So I knew I would be out in a matter of hours because they didn't actually charge me with

00:53:20.660 anything.

00:53:21.440 Right, right.

00:53:22.360 So you weren't worried particularly.

00:53:24.020 No, because I had been through this five times with David Menzies.

00:53:27.020 Right, right, right.

00:53:28.140 Menzies walked up to... 0.84

00:53:29.220 Tell us, tell everybody who Menzies is. 0.97

00:53:32.400 Rebel News has some colorful characters.

00:53:34.280 And one of my favorites is a guy named David Menzies.

00:53:36.740 He's in his early 60s.

00:53:38.820 He wears a fedora.

00:53:40.620 He's got an old-fashioned style.

00:53:42.000 He loves old pop culture references from the 70s.

00:53:45.040 The guy's a character.

00:53:47.140 And he's a shoe lover.

00:53:48.460 He reported on that trans professor from York who was on the swim team with all the

00:53:53.960 13-year-old girls and got kicked out of the swimming pool for pointing that out.

00:53:58.280 You're exactly right.

00:53:58.880 Right, which he should have pointed out.

00:54:00.380 Yeah, and the parents let him get away with it too, the professor.

00:54:04.780 You know... 0.72

00:54:05.120 I mean, what the hell? 0.65

00:54:06.340 Seriously.

00:54:07.280 David, and how many journalists would dare cover that?

00:54:10.160 Yeah, well, him.

00:54:11.260 Yeah.

00:54:11.480 David went up to our deputy prime minister at the time, Chrystia Freeland, on a public

00:54:16.720 sidewalk at a public event.

00:54:18.400 And it was about Iran.

00:54:19.820 And the liberals hadn't banned a certain Iranian terror group.

00:54:22.880 And so David, with his lanyard and mic, like there's no...

00:54:26.460 Everyone knew who he was.

00:54:27.620 He went up to her and said, will you ban this group?

00:54:30.820 Yeah.

00:54:30.940 And the RCMP swarmed him, pushed him against the wall, and said, stop assaulting.

00:54:36.420 Yeah, right.

00:54:37.280 And they arrested him.

00:54:38.580 If the cameras hadn't been there...

00:54:40.260 Look, we all saw that the police assaulted David.

00:54:42.800 They said David assaulted the police.

00:54:44.720 Yeah.

00:54:45.000 And they charged him with assault.

00:54:46.860 When they saw that we caught it on tape, they let him go.

00:54:49.120 So David's been arrested so many times.

00:54:52.540 During the pandemic, David went outside a Christmas party where Justin Trudeau was going to a fundraiser

00:54:59.540 with the Liberal Party.

00:55:00.640 But this was when we weren't supposed to have Christmas parties.

00:55:03.400 It was during the lockdown.

00:55:04.960 No, you weren't supposed to have Christmas parties.

00:55:06.840 And that was David's one question.

00:55:08.580 Why are you having a Christmas party when the rest of us are told not to?

00:55:11.600 So David was waiting in the cold on the street with his cameraman for an hour for Trudeau's caravan to arrive.

00:55:19.440 You know, COVID was genetically engineered not to infect important people, you know.

00:55:23.900 Here's how this story ends.

00:55:26.000 So everyone knows Menzies is very visible.

00:55:29.880 He's got his cameraman there.

00:55:32.340 There's no doubt who he is and what his purpose is.

00:55:35.840 He's waiting with the Toronto Police Service for an hour.

00:55:38.800 They're bantering.

00:55:39.640 They're all just waiting for the prince to arrive.

00:55:43.440 Andiraj pulls up.

00:55:44.900 They obviously radioed ahead and said, who's there?

00:55:47.060 Oh, just Menzies. 1.00

00:55:49.420 The RCMP bodyguards for Trudeau jump out of the vehicle, go straight to David, and beat the daylights out of him. 0.90

00:55:57.580 Smash him against the wall, dump him on the ground, beat him, and then let him go.

00:56:02.520 They don't even arrest him. 0.92

00:56:03.700 They don't even arrest him, let alone charge him.

00:56:06.320 They just beat him up.

00:56:07.580 And we're suing the police.

00:56:10.840 Our other reporter in Quebec, Alexa Lavoie.

00:56:14.420 You know, the trucker convoy, Rebel News, that was really our time to shine.

00:56:18.780 The regime media were all on Justin Trudeau's script.

00:56:22.160 This is the Maple Leaf insurrection.

00:56:25.020 This is the January 6th moment for Canada.

00:56:27.100 Yeah, it wasn't just for Canada either.

00:56:29.260 Like, that demonstration triggered all those farmers' protests in the UK, and it was a big deal.

00:56:35.280 It was huge.

00:56:36.000 It was the time when people paid attention to Canada in an interested, focused way.

00:56:41.160 But Trudeau tried to have the script being these are violent, racist people, fringe minority with unacceptable views.

00:56:48.140 That was his exact idea. 0.96

00:56:48.660 Confederate Nazis. 0.96

00:56:49.960 You know Canada's full of Confederate Nazis. 0.97

00:56:51.980 So we were down there just with our citizen journalists, just filming everything on our phones.

00:56:58.180 And in that month, we had 400 million views and impressions, which is more than the average bunch of the CBC state broadcaster.

00:57:07.000 I believe we helped stop the Trudeau narrative from taking root.

00:57:11.440 Anyways, that trucker convoy was completely peaceful, except one thing.

00:57:18.800 There was one shooting.

00:57:21.520 There were probably 10,000 or tens of thousands of people in Ottawa, and there were echo events all across the country.

00:57:27.780 Who was the shooting?

00:57:30.380 Our reporter, Alexa Lavoie, clearly marked as a reporter, holding her cell phone, filming riot police and truckers.

00:57:39.100 One riot cop with the RCMP takes out his riot gun at close range and shoots her in the leg.

00:57:48.020 Her, the only person in the end, and with the wadding and a huge bruising, and you can hear her screams of pain.

00:57:57.260 And by the way, the police don't offer her help afterwards.

00:57:59.700 They shoot her and go.

00:58:01.200 We're suing the RCMP for that as well.

00:58:03.620 We've discovered that that weapon is not meant to be shot at a person.

00:58:06.640 Won't surprise you to learn.

00:58:07.780 You shoot it into an area on the ground, and it releases cure gas.

00:58:12.780 And you only do that with that weapon if things are very escalated.

00:58:17.340 If there's like a riot underway, if people are storming something, you do not use that weapon preemptively because there's a bunch of people chanting.

00:58:25.220 So it was used inappropriately, both in terms of manner and time.

00:58:28.720 And is it a coincidence, and this is my conspiracy theory side, is it coincidence that the only person in the country who was shot during the convoy was our reporter?

00:58:41.240 And we complained to the RCMP.

00:58:42.760 We were suing them, but we also complained to them.

00:58:44.800 You know who, the police have an internal complaint system.

00:58:47.380 You know who they assigned it to?

00:58:49.040 You know where the RCMP officer was based who looked into this matter?

00:58:54.180 You're not going to guess, but why don't you guess for fun?

00:58:57.780 I couldn't tell.

00:58:58.940 Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

00:59:01.620 No, I wouldn't have guessed that.

00:59:03.060 I've got to tell you.

00:59:03.540 The RCMP, as part of Trudeau's outreach to the Haitian community in Montreal, has RCMP officers stationed in Haiti to teach them how to be cops.

00:59:12.680 You can accept that or not, but that was where the cop who was going to do this investigation of the shooting of Alexa Lavoie, our reporter, was based.

00:59:21.060 It's so absurd.

00:59:22.780 So what's the status of that investigation?

00:59:24.700 We're still proceeding.

00:59:25.880 Oh, the investigation?

00:59:26.880 Yeah, and the court case.

00:59:28.340 A whitewash.

00:59:29.160 Yeah, of course.

00:59:30.400 David Menzies arrested five times.

00:59:32.420 Alexa Lavoie shot.

00:59:35.660 We brought our whole team to Montreal to cover the curfew.

00:59:39.820 I don't know if you remember, but Montreal had a curfew.

00:59:41.980 Yeah, I know.

00:59:42.440 I think from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m., sick or not, jabbed or not, you couldn't leave your house.

00:59:47.540 Yeah, I know.

00:59:48.520 Now, journalists were exempt as if journalists are some higher class.

00:59:53.220 So we had a reporter who would go out, and the police would hassle them. 0.95

00:59:56.740 So then we sent three, and the police would hassle them, and I said, damn it, we're bringing the whole team.

01:00:00.900 So we brought 17 rebels into town, and I thought, well, I wonder if there's an Airbnb we could all fit in, because that's a lot of hotel rooms.

01:00:08.380 And I found an Airbnb, like a houseboat in the old port of Montreal, where we could all fit.

01:00:13.460 It had room for 24 people.

01:00:15.700 Summer, winter?

01:00:16.640 When were you there?

01:00:17.380 This was, I think it was the spring.

01:00:19.780 Okay.

01:00:20.840 I want to double-check that.

01:00:22.560 That's okay.

01:00:23.360 But we were there to do reporting on the streets during the curfew, because the cops had been pushing around our people.

01:00:29.460 And we brought a lawyer with us, and we're walking the streets at midnight, and we have a lawyer with us on the ground to engage with Montreal French-speaking police en français, just to flex our muscles.

01:00:43.260 And by the way, the Montreal police had never seen journalists out and about because they're so incurious and so obedient in the regime media that they would never think to report on this absurd curfew.

01:00:54.280 So we had a great night out.

01:00:56.680 We did curfew reporting late at night, and then we all go to our Airbnb houseboat, and then we get up the next morning, and there's going to be a protest.

01:01:06.940 Well, wouldn't you know it, but the old port of Montreal just happens to be the staging area for the police for this huge—so 50 police cars show up, and they find out that's where the Rebel News people are.

01:01:18.560 So they seal off our houseboat with yellow police tape, and they come on our little houseboat and say, we're searching this place.

01:01:27.580 Well, and I was off the boat at that time, but our youngsters—

01:01:31.320 Had you flushed the cocaine by then?

01:01:32.900 Our youngsters know to say, where's your warrant?

01:01:36.360 I'm so proud of our young people, and they all said, get a warrant.

01:01:39.960 And the cops said, you're going to play that way.

01:01:42.460 They sealed off our boat, and for the next 10 hours, no one was—they wanted to search every person and every room.

01:01:49.720 For what?

01:01:51.540 It's not yet clear.

01:01:53.620 I think they just wanted to—

01:01:55.180 Yeah, yeah, of course.

01:01:56.400 And we said, come back with a warrant, and I don't think they're used to being talked to that way.

01:01:59.860 For 10 hours, they shopped this around Quebec to try and find a judge, and God bless it, they couldn't find a judge to give them a search warrant.

01:02:08.640 Well, thank God for that.

01:02:10.200 That's an amazing thing in and of itself.

01:02:11.740 That's the miracle of the story.

01:02:12.840 That's for sure.

01:02:13.800 Thank God.

01:02:14.400 Now, we sued them, and they actually settled.

01:02:16.580 They settled because they harassed a bunch of our people.

01:02:19.440 They paid a bunch of our different journalists a certain sum of money.

01:02:22.560 And then they wrote a letter, sort of a grudging, ironic apology, but it basically said, well, we didn't know who you were, and you always had your journalistic rights.

01:02:33.660 And we sued the Montreal police.

01:02:36.180 They paid our people.

01:02:37.780 The people who were roughed up, they arrested Menzies. 1.00

01:02:40.400 Yeah, of course. 0.97

01:02:41.200 Took him to a crappy jail. 0.91

01:02:42.280 Seems like his fate. 0.79

01:02:43.280 Yeah, you know, Menzies, he's stubborn in a good way.

01:02:46.800 And you don't want everyone in the world to be stubborn in a good way, but you want a few.

01:02:50.960 I always like to say, he's one in a million.

01:02:53.620 Pause.

01:02:54.260 Thank God.

01:02:54.840 Yeah, right.

01:02:55.360 It's a joke.

01:02:55.980 He's actually a national treasure.

01:02:58.100 There's only a handful of journalists who are on the street.

01:03:02.440 A lot of journalists just sit at their desk and Google.

01:03:04.540 How about get out into the world?

01:03:05.900 You never know what you're going to see.

01:03:07.600 And that's the rebel style.

01:03:09.080 We love to travel also.

01:03:10.320 We're from Canada.

01:03:11.220 We got a fella in Melbourne, Australia, Abiyamini.

01:03:14.920 That was a real lockdown centre too.

01:03:16.880 Yeah, right.

01:03:17.560 He recorded a lot.

01:03:18.040 Just about as crazy as Montreal and Toronto.

01:03:20.020 That's right.

01:03:20.800 But we travel.

01:03:21.540 For example, every year we go to Davos, Switzerland.

01:03:25.680 That's this town that the World Economic Forum takes over.

01:03:28.120 Yeah.

01:03:28.660 How would you describe the World Economic Forum for everybody who's watching and listening?

01:03:32.620 It sounds super boring, doesn't it?

01:03:34.620 World Economic Forum.

01:03:35.860 That sounds like, you know, economists studying the world.

01:03:39.060 Sounds good.

01:03:39.700 But it's not.

01:03:41.480 These are the masters of the universe.

01:03:43.940 I call them the VVIPs. 1.00

01:03:46.020 Yeah.

01:03:46.340 These are prime ministers, presidents, royalty, pop culture stars.

01:03:53.340 Yeah.

01:03:53.560 And the question is why?

01:03:54.820 You know, I asked some Davos attendants who were very well positioned, like, who the hell Klaus Schwab is?

01:04:00.840 It's like, how in the world did this cartoon dictator of the world character manage to convene all these VVIPs, as you call them? 0.80

01:04:09.900 And Klaus Schwab is a convener, fundamentally.

01:04:12.360 And he's certainly not elected.

01:04:13.620 He has no...

01:04:14.560 He owns it.

01:04:15.260 He's an owner.

01:04:15.980 Yeah, right.

01:04:16.460 I call it a crypto government.

01:04:18.840 Here's what I'm going with.

01:04:19.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

01:04:21.020 You have members of government.

01:04:22.360 Chrystia Freeland, Mark Carney.

01:04:24.440 These are the two leading contenders for...

01:04:26.060 Hear that?

01:04:26.580 That's Chrystia Freeland and Mark Carney.

01:04:28.460 For those of you who are thinking about voting for them, a vote for them is definitely a vote for the WEF.

01:04:33.620 And there'll be a lot more about that on this channel soon.

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01:05:02.560 They're both board members of the World Economic Forum.

01:05:07.180 Justin Trudeau was a global young leader.

01:05:10.120 And Klaus Schwab bragged, and I'm going to say it in his German accent, we have penetrated the cabinet of Canada.

01:05:16.120 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:16.160 Central metaphor intended.

01:05:18.120 You've got to do it in that accent because he really is like a Bond super villain.

01:05:21.700 That's for sure.

01:05:22.560 It's such a comical, blackly comical reality. 0.97

01:05:27.120 I don't have a problem with rich people meeting to talk.

01:05:30.160 Yeah.

01:05:30.520 Well, they're going to.

01:05:31.340 But what do they do there?

01:05:33.440 Here's why I call it a crypto government.

01:05:34.920 Number one, a real government has an independent press.

01:05:38.340 Just a scrutinized thing.

01:05:39.860 The World Economic Forum, there's lots of journalists, but they pay to participate.

01:05:44.840 So they'll never be skeptical or accountability journalists.

01:05:47.720 We go, but we are not allowed in.

01:05:49.340 We're kept outside the security perimeter because we ask unvetted questions.

01:05:53.740 Oh, yeah.

01:05:54.220 So that's where you're always lurking out there on the street, like an ambush squad.

01:05:57.940 That's right.

01:05:58.400 And I'll tell you in a minute some of our favorite catches.

01:06:00.860 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:01.560 Number two, in a real government, there's an opposition, and sometimes they rotate people through.

01:06:08.180 That's a form of a check and balance.

01:06:10.000 In a real government, there's a lobbyist registry.

01:06:12.320 Who is meeting with them?

01:06:12.920 Technically, it's a fascist organization.

01:06:15.400 And fascism means to bind together, right?

01:06:17.680 And the fascists were big into the idea that, and this is kind of what defines fascism, that media, corporations, government should all be working together as a unit to push forward whatever the interest happens to be, whatever the agenda happens to be.

01:06:33.800 And the WEF is a place where exactly that happens, is that the elites of all the different power hierarchies meet and, well, conspire morally to improve the planet despite the fact that they have no democratic standing.

01:06:49.280 And as you said, no opposition and no journalistic coverage, and that it's a pay-to-play arrangement that's made Schwab and his cronies exceptionally rich.

01:06:58.520 And that's really demented and twisted the world in unbelievably pathological ways.

01:07:03.960 Net zero, that's a WEF initiative.

01:07:06.980 ESG, right?

01:07:08.000 That stakeholder capitalism.

01:07:09.840 That's all pouring out of the WEF.

01:07:12.480 That's the sort of thing, by the way, that Carney supports in spades.

01:07:15.680 He's an architect of those policies and a distributor of them all around the world.

01:07:20.840 Carney believes that 85% of the world's fossil fuels have to remain in the ground.

01:07:25.100 And that somehow magically, Alberta in particular is going to have even better jobs under this new green economy that he can't define. 0.77

01:07:33.240 It's going to apparently run on hydrogen of all bloody things, all the pathological idiocies you can possibly imagine. 0.94

01:07:40.640 So he's like Trudeau on steroids. 0.97

01:07:42.860 And so, yeah, that's the WEF, man, in a nutshell. 0.99

01:07:46.620 Every stupid idea you can possibly imagine the last 15 years has been promoted by the Davos crowd, 0.99

01:07:51.560 all to virtue signal because they're guilty about being, you know, I don't know, guilty about being rapacious billionaires, I suppose. 0.99

01:07:59.140 They could work a little on the rapaciousness, a little less on the virtue signaling.

01:08:03.440 So anyways, okay, so you're in the WEF and you're out there trying to what?

01:08:07.500 What are you doing?

01:08:08.400 Well, we're outside the moat.

01:08:11.380 I mean, it's a very high security place.

01:08:12.560 It's hard to get there.

01:08:13.500 They buy up every hotel room in town.

01:08:15.420 So we stay one town over and take the train in.

01:08:17.480 Right, so it's isolated to protect.

01:08:19.160 That's right.

01:08:19.600 And so we had to fly to Zurich, take three trains up, and we're not allowed in.

01:08:24.820 So we're just on the cold streets.

01:08:26.480 Where do you stay?

01:08:27.440 We stay one town over called Closters, in an Airbnb typically.

01:08:31.200 And they quintuple the prices that week.

01:08:34.040 Of course.

01:08:34.720 That week, the local airport, the private jet airport, they say that they make their whole year's money in that one way.

01:08:44.140 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:44.620 And if you go and watch the private jets.

01:08:45.600 And think of all the lovely carbon that's being produced.

01:08:47.980 The private jets.

01:08:48.520 And think of all the plants.

01:08:49.180 They come in, and it's such a small airport that they drop off the VVIPs, but then the planes have to go fly to another airport to park.

01:08:56.960 And then they come and fly.

01:08:57.860 Like, it's an extra flight just to park the plane.

01:09:01.720 I've never seen anything more carbon intensive.

01:09:03.900 And then there's helicopters.

01:09:04.560 It probably got slightly greener around Davos.

01:09:06.960 That's right, because of all the CO2.

01:09:08.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:09.440 You know, they're against fuel, and they're against food, even though they—

01:09:13.860 No, no, no, no.

01:09:14.540 They're against fuel and food for peasants.

01:09:16.700 And that's the—so they're in their private jets, but you have to take public transit.

01:09:21.920 I was in the streets of Davos two weeks ago, and I see a guy handing out energy bars.

01:09:26.800 Like, there's a lot of kiosks and people giving away grab bags and goodies, and it's cold, so they give away hot chocolate and tea.

01:09:34.600 So one guy's giving away energy bars, and people are flocking to it.

01:09:37.200 But I notice—I notice on some box he has, it says insect protein.

01:09:44.800 Oh, yeah.

01:09:45.780 So I said, who are you?

01:09:47.320 What are you?

01:09:48.040 And he actually talked to me for 15 minutes.

01:09:51.200 His company's called Pumbaa.

01:09:53.240 And if you know your Disney movies, there's a character that eats insects called Pumbaa.

01:09:56.720 Right, right.

01:09:57.400 But on this candy bar, it does not say the word insect anywhere.

01:10:02.060 In the ingredients, in tiny print, it uses the Latin genus and species for the mealworm.

01:10:08.120 Oh, yeah.

01:10:08.640 It's ground up.

01:10:09.220 It's like Adolphinus diaporinus or something.

01:10:12.360 Sounds delicious.

01:10:13.200 I don't think one in a thousand people—one in a hundred thousand people knows what that is.

01:10:17.340 And he was giving them away, and he was saying, there's insect protein in it.

01:10:21.820 But no one heard him.

01:10:22.940 I was there with my cameraman.

01:10:24.080 I said, did you hear him?

01:10:25.380 He said there's insect protein in it.

01:10:27.800 And some people were repulsed by it.

01:10:30.640 Others didn't care.

01:10:32.340 They are doing creepy and weird things.

01:10:35.320 Bugs are the right thing to do creepy things with.

01:10:37.480 If you want to eat bugs, I'm not going to say don't.

01:10:40.100 But don't sell it or give it away and hide it.

01:10:44.060 There's a lot of strange things going on in the World Economic Forum.

01:10:48.560 And I feel like—

01:10:50.760 You need a T-shirt that says that.

01:10:52.500 A lot of strange things going on in the World Economic Forum.

01:10:55.340 Rebel News.

01:10:56.140 Rebel News were sort of scruffy.

01:10:59.280 I mean, I say the drawbridge comes down, and these princes walk out onto the town, and we're there.

01:11:06.820 These grubby peasants asking them questions.

01:11:09.560 Two years ago, I think it was, we scrummed Albert Bourla, the CEO of Pfizer.

01:11:15.920 This year, we scrummed Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock.

01:11:20.020 BlackRock.

01:11:20.880 They're fun.

01:11:21.780 And we had a lot of questions.

01:11:23.380 We asked 70 questions.

01:11:25.440 I later came—we walked and talked with Larry Fink for nine minutes, and we asked 70 questions.

01:11:31.440 He answered zero.

01:11:32.760 In fact, his bodyguard sort of pushed us a bit, and then Fink took out his cell phone, put it right in our face.

01:11:37.920 Click.

01:11:38.700 Click.

01:11:39.180 I said, are you intimidating me?

01:11:41.040 I'll tell you my name.

01:11:41.980 I'm going to make—like, it was so weird.

01:11:43.940 Well, you haven't been on social media much, Ezra.

01:11:46.580 But—and Albert Bourla, we were asking real questions.

01:11:51.300 Yeah, we were annoying.

01:11:52.180 I'll grab you for that.

01:11:52.980 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:53.500 But real—like, my first question to Larry Fink is, have you spoken to the president yet?

01:11:57.060 Are you moving away from ESG?

01:11:59.080 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:59.660 And are you going to come to his way of thinking, like Zuckerberg did?

01:12:02.260 I don't—I really am curious, because Larry Fink is a real—

01:12:05.640 Yeah, because Vanguard has moved away from ESG to some degree.

01:12:08.420 So it was a real question.

01:12:09.460 Yeah.

01:12:09.780 And then I asked a bunch of questions.

01:12:11.640 I said, are you putting your ideology above shareholder returns?

01:12:15.080 Like, if you're making—

01:12:16.420 That's the definition of ESG.

01:12:18.000 Yeah.

01:12:18.600 And those—that's a real question.

01:12:20.280 And maybe I wasn't as—I was fairly polite.

01:12:22.220 I said, Mr. Fink, et cetera.

01:12:23.360 Mm-hmm.

01:12:24.560 Why would he walk with us for nine minutes but not deign to give us an answer?

01:12:28.420 And Albert Bourla, the same thing.

01:12:30.060 We said, when did you know that the vaccine didn't actually block transmission?

01:12:36.320 You said it was 100% effective than 90, 80, 70.

01:12:39.280 I said, when did you know?

01:12:40.540 I asked him—I asked him real questions, and my colleague Abiyamini did, too.

01:12:45.540 The fact that we were on the street and not vetted disgusted these men.

01:12:52.020 And they—both of them had probably done 10 interviews that day.

01:12:55.880 But the interviews were with trusted partners who had actually paid to attend the World Economic Forum.

01:13:04.040 The idea that they would be in an unscripted moment and owe an answer to anyone was beneath them.

01:13:08.920 That contempt—if you ask me what is the World Economic Forum, that's what it is.

01:13:13.100 It's these masters of the universe who like to hang out with other masters of the universe and who have contempt.

01:13:19.380 To talk about humanity, but they actually hate people.

01:13:22.440 Yeah, yeah.

01:13:22.880 That's the—and I've been going for four years.

01:13:25.200 And you never know what you're going to get there.

01:13:27.420 Yeah, I'm very afraid that that's exactly the sort of attitude that characterizes Mr. Carney.

01:13:31.560 And I'm more convinced about that after reading his book quite carefully, Values.

01:13:36.160 It's like, yeah, he likes humanity, but, you know, food, shelter, clothing, and heat, or air conditioning for you or your car.

01:13:44.900 You know, do you get to have a car under Mark Carney?

01:13:47.560 Yeah.

01:13:48.080 You know, the globalist utopian types, they'd like to see a 95% reduction in private car ownership.

01:13:54.060 This is the place that came out with the think piece, you'll own nothing and you'll be happy.

01:13:59.100 Yeah, yeah, or else you'll bloody well be happy, or at least you won't get to complain.

01:14:03.140 Yeah.

01:14:03.340 Yeah, you'll own nothing and you won't get to complain.

01:14:07.020 But let me say one thing.

01:14:08.060 I've just spent 10 minutes criticizing the World Economic Forum, but I'll say this,

01:14:12.060 and it's probably a compliment of Switzerland more than the World Economic Forum.

01:14:15.580 There are hundreds of very well-armed police and military in Davos with big firearms.

01:14:23.300 Yeah.

01:14:23.820 It feels extremely safe, by the way.

01:14:25.720 Anyway, they have never once tried to stop us from scrumming these VVIPs.

01:14:30.720 Oh, yeah.

01:14:31.340 Oh, that's interesting.

01:14:31.960 As long as you don't touch them, not that I would ever touch anyone.

01:14:33.760 Yeah.

01:14:34.400 John Kerry, the former Secretary of State and Climate Ambassador, he walks around all the time,

01:14:39.120 and he actually talks to us while we walk.

01:14:40.980 Very interesting.

01:14:42.380 And, like, all these VVIPs, Larry Fink had two sort of tough guys with him that pushed us a bit,

01:14:48.540 but as long as you don't touch the VVIP, you can scrum them.

01:14:51.660 The cops don't care. 0.78

01:14:52.480 In fact, I think the cops get a kick out of it.

01:14:54.880 You think the cops in Canada would get a kick out of it, too, really?

01:14:58.060 Well, they've been politicized by their mayors and police commissions and all the way down.

01:15:02.040 The police in Canada are becoming more political every day.

01:15:05.440 In Switzerland, they would never do what they did to me or to Manzies or to Alex Lavoie.

01:15:10.360 Never do that houseboat raid.

01:15:11.980 They're actually a gentle police with a light touch there.

01:15:15.200 Yeah, well, it's a terrible thing to think of that harder-handed politicized police presence being part and parcel of Canada.

01:15:24.580 That's really not a good thing.

01:15:26.320 Yeah.

01:15:26.560 Yeah, and I think you guys, you know, love you or hate you, or maybe a bit of both.

01:15:31.520 You guys have been canaries in the coal mine for Canada for a long time.

01:15:34.880 And also not just Canada, right?

01:15:36.660 Because how much of your viewership is international?

01:15:39.300 You know, I'd say 60% is Canadian, and then U.S. and the U.K. after that, and then Australia.

01:15:48.340 Right, so 40% international.

01:15:50.280 Is that primarily the U.S.?

01:15:52.580 Yeah, the U.S.

01:15:53.620 Well, it's such a big population center.

01:15:55.180 That's right.

01:15:55.580 And then the U.K., especially when we cover Tommy, because the domestic media in the U.K., they're uniformly against them, which is strange.

01:16:04.400 It is strange.

01:16:05.300 Because so many ordinary Brits really follow Tommy.

01:16:08.600 Yeah.

01:16:09.140 How many people do you think were at that last rally?

01:16:11.560 That was, what, two weeks ago?

01:16:12.860 Maybe something like that.

01:16:14.700 It's February 9th today, and so it would have been about two weeks ago.

01:16:17.660 And that was a free Tommy Robinson rally, right?

01:16:20.060 That's right.

01:16:20.540 And I couldn't get any reasonable estimate of the number of people that showed up.

01:16:23.820 And it was peaceful.

01:16:24.580 Again, there's been a bunch of rallies that Robinson has been involved in or at the core of that have been, like the trucker convoy, markedly peaceful, right?

01:16:34.880 And that's very weird because you'd also expect them to be sold with agents provocateur who are there to cause trouble, to discredit the organization.

01:16:42.580 But even given that, those rallies have been peaceful.

01:16:46.420 And you can see in the U.K. that the working class, the genuine working class, like the actual inhabitants of Britain, are not happy.

01:16:55.940 And hold viewpoints that aren't well represented by the standard political parties, and certainly not by the media.

01:17:04.100 You know the city of Rotherham?

01:17:06.880 Yeah.

01:17:08.300 Depends on how you measure the size of the city and the county.

01:17:10.980 There's about 100,000 souls there.

01:17:12.840 So about 50,000 are women. 0.99

01:17:14.980 Take out the children and the old people. 1.00

01:17:17.060 I don't know, is it 25,000 women of a certain age? 1.00

01:17:20.880 Mm-hmm. 0.59

01:17:21.280 1,400 of them were raped by rape gangs. 0.97

01:17:24.960 And when I say raped, I don't mean raped once. 0.84

01:17:26.780 Right. 0.90

01:17:27.200 I mean raped every night for months or years by multiple men. 0.93

01:17:30.720 Yeah. 0.74

01:17:31.300 But these were working class British girls. 0.77

01:17:34.660 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:34.900 They don't count. 0.96

01:17:35.920 And the rapists, over 80% of them were British, Pakistani, Muslim men. 0.97

01:17:42.900 So you had the perfect storm. 0.98

01:17:45.000 You had girls who were nobody's nothing.

01:17:47.900 Oh, what are they?

01:17:49.040 Nothing.

01:17:49.300 Slags. 1.00

01:17:50.560 And then you had perpetrators.

01:17:53.140 Oh, we don't dare mention them.

01:17:55.680 Yeah.

01:17:56.140 And so this went on for years, for decades even.

01:17:59.620 I know.

01:18:00.720 Well, it's one of those crimes that has...

01:18:03.680 Look, look.

01:18:04.660 And that's just...

01:18:05.180 I always think of my mother when I'm having a conversation like this.

01:18:08.100 My mom...

01:18:08.900 I took my mom to Australia and I traveled with her and her sister.

01:18:12.920 And they're conventional Canadians.

01:18:15.440 And they were accustomed to believing CTV, believing Lloyd Robertson, believing the CBC.

01:18:22.600 And, you know, for a long time, that wasn't completely unreasonable, right?

01:18:26.820 The legacy media in Canada, like most Canadian institutions, was pretty damn solid.

01:18:32.260 Centrist, pretty reliable.

01:18:34.160 And then...

01:18:34.700 Well, and then it wasn't.

01:18:35.600 And that started probably 15 years ago, maybe something like that.

01:18:39.880 But when you guys, you know, popped your head above the turret.

01:18:43.960 And you imagine someone like her or her sister, these conventional, hardworking, middle class or working class Canadians who are accustomed to trusting their institutions.

01:18:55.220 And then all of a sudden, all of that goes sideways.

01:18:58.000 And they're asked to believe things like what we're talking about, you know?

01:19:03.600 They're asked to believe that the food pyramid's a scam and that the school systems were set up by fascists.

01:19:09.180 And that the WF is a global conspiracy of crypto-fascists who want to take everybody's vehicles.

01:19:15.220 And that there are rape gangs operating at a scale in the UK that involve maybe a million girls.

01:19:20.920 No one knows, right?

01:19:21.820 No one knows.

01:19:22.500 And even that's like, is it 10,000?

01:19:25.220 Is it 100,000?

01:19:26.360 Is it a million?

01:19:27.500 Oh, we don't know.

01:19:28.700 Well, maybe you should look into it.

01:19:30.540 Well, if you're in the shoes of a person like that, you either have to believe that everything that you thought was true in your life is flipped upside down or that you're being scammed by conspiracy theorists.

01:19:42.420 Well, it's, of course, you're going to believe the latter because why the hell wouldn't you?

01:19:46.860 You know, and you have to kind of be dragged.

01:19:49.180 Even Michael Schellenberger, you know, he broke the WPATH story, right?

01:19:52.880 That's that preposterous group of perverted psychopaths who purport to be experts in psychopathology and have defined the standards of care for gender-affirming butchery conducted on minors. 0.79

01:20:06.340 That's WPATH run by Marcy Bowers. 0.88

01:20:09.520 I think it's Bowers or Bowes, who's a transsexual surgeon who was involved in the Jess Jennings case, which they made a reality TV show out of. 0.59

01:20:18.120 Yeah, that WPATH.

01:20:19.420 Well, Schellenberger told me when I interviewed him that I'd interviewed, was it Helen Joyce or Abigail Schreier?

01:20:26.200 I talked to both of them who were early investigators into the gender-affirming scandal.

01:20:31.640 He said when he first heard the interview, he couldn't believe it was true.

01:20:35.800 And that's Schellenberger, you know, and he was a lefty back in the day and clued in and woke up and he's a hell of an investigative journalist.

01:20:43.340 But even Schellenberger couldn't believe it.

01:20:46.620 There's like 50 things that are happening that you can't believe.

01:20:49.900 And that's, you know, one of the things that you guys have done in Rebel News.

01:20:52.900 It's like you've been on the forefront of cracking these preposterous stories.

01:20:58.220 And then, you know, you're arrested for your trouble in Canada.

01:21:02.600 It's so preposterous.

01:21:04.100 It's like, how the hell did Canada become a place where, well, first of all, muck-raking journalists are necessary. 0.98

01:21:11.140 And they certainly are, that bloody CBC, right?

01:21:13.880 It's $1.5 billion a year, plus $600 million in advertising from the federal government.

01:21:19.060 To have no audience, they have no audience, right, except people over 60. 0.99

01:21:23.460 And they've been struggling to get a purchase on YouTube for like 10 years.

01:21:27.420 They've disallowed comments because that's how clueless they are.

01:21:30.220 And no one watches their material.

01:21:32.440 Like, they literally get hundreds of views, which means that even the staff that made the shows don't watch them, right?

01:21:39.940 And so here we are in Canada.

01:21:43.680 And Mark Carney's come along to save the Canada, but really to save the planet. 0.99

01:21:49.120 And Canadians are daft enough to start. 1.00

01:21:51.520 You can see the scales tilting in his favor, you know? 1.00

01:21:54.840 I mean, we were going to decimate the Liberals because Trudeau's been such an absolute bloody nightmare catastrophe in his narcissistic and incompetent manner. 0.62

01:22:03.100 And now Carney's coming, waltzing in from the Bank of England with his ESG and his DEI and his net zero.

01:22:10.520 And his, you don't need fossil fuels, peasants or cars.

01:22:13.560 And Canadians are lining up to vote for him.

01:22:16.300 Jesus.

01:22:17.060 I saw an opinion poll about Trump's idea, his social media banter about Canada becoming the 51st state.

01:22:24.140 Now, I think he just likes poking at Trudeau.

01:22:26.180 So he, I mean, Trump is a master of the insulting nickname.

01:22:30.120 Like, he's just got that mad at him.

01:22:30.860 Yeah, he sure is.

01:22:31.460 He's definitely gone.

01:22:32.600 That's an art.

01:22:33.320 He's an entertainer and he's a quick-thinking, mischievous fellow.

01:22:37.080 Yeah.

01:22:37.340 So he met with Trudeau at Mar-a-Lago and he detected certain weaknesses.

01:22:41.560 He didn't let him stay there that night.

01:22:43.100 No.

01:22:43.740 And he poked at him a bit.

01:22:44.880 Yeah.

01:22:45.900 The thing is, 10 years ago, you would have said to Canadians, you want to join the States.

01:22:50.080 I think Canadians would say, no, first of all, we're wealthier.

01:22:53.100 There was a point in time when the average Canadian, on an individual basis, is wealthier than...

01:22:56.580 Yeah, well, we've dispensed with that.

01:22:58.080 It's 60% now.

01:22:59.140 There were a lot of things that Canadians would say, you know, we really like America, but boy, we're glad.

01:23:04.420 We're good.

01:23:04.820 But what's happened over the last 10 years on everything, forget tangible things like money, mass immigration, crime.

01:23:15.360 What about intangibles?

01:23:16.580 What about a prime minister who took John A. Macdonald off our $10 bill, who says the country has no national identity,

01:23:22.500 but insults Daniel Smith for not being patriotic enough to sacrifice the Alberta economy to Canada,

01:23:28.220 a Canada that's a patriarchal, oppressive, you know, what would you say, post-colonial identity-less state.

01:23:34.520 And he said those things in an interview with a foreign newspaper, nonetheless.

01:23:37.660 It was the New York Times.

01:23:38.980 But not just that.

01:23:40.080 Trudeau says we're a genocidal country.

01:23:42.000 Yeah, right.

01:23:42.380 The genocide continues. 0.70

01:23:44.000 He says we're sexist, transphobic.

01:23:46.500 He, in so many ways, he makes grand apologies all the time, but not for himself, for the country.

01:23:52.620 Yeah.

01:23:53.200 So you've had almost 10 years of him degrading and demoralizing and denaturing,

01:23:59.380 cutting people off from our roots and our history and our culture and identity.

01:24:02.780 And destroying the economy at the same time.

01:24:05.160 So if you're a young man and you want to buy a home and start a life and get a job,

01:24:11.460 all of those things, a lot of young people live with their parents that are well into their 30s,

01:24:16.000 not because of their failure to launch.

01:24:17.480 You can't buy a home in Canada.

01:24:18.820 It's twice as much in the States.

01:24:19.760 And we don't have much land, you know.

01:24:22.140 But all of a sudden, when Trump says, would you like to join the U.S., we'll trade in your dollars at par.

01:24:27.440 There'll be no tariffs and you'll have a strong military.

01:24:29.760 You know, you're a young man, and for 10 years, you've been told by Trudeau that your country means nothing.

01:24:34.420 It's just a hotel.

01:24:35.280 Worse than nothing.

01:24:36.300 And here's this strong, masculine guy who's commanding authority, and he truly is making America great again.

01:24:43.780 And when he says that, it's plausible.

01:24:45.780 And when he says it's golden age.

01:24:46.140 And he's got these monsters like Musk on his side who were tromping through the grapevine.

01:24:50.880 And the world is bending the knee to him, whether it's the Japanese prime minister or a Korean investor.

01:24:55.440 Yeah, and he just made a deal with the Japanese prime minister.

01:24:58.420 Yeah, yeah, for a deal where Trudeau had, because the Japanese prime minister had come to Canada,

01:25:03.820 and Trudeau said, we can't make a business case.

01:25:06.020 Right.

01:25:06.640 So is it a surprise that young men of all the demographics say, you know what, I'll take Trump up on that deal?

01:25:11.580 Yeah.

01:25:12.260 I forget the, I think it was 43%.

01:25:14.400 I think 43% of young men, I'm going from memory here, said, yeah, we'll take that deal.

01:25:18.960 And that's without a campaign.

01:25:20.320 That's just based on a few tweets.

01:25:22.500 Casual.

01:25:22.820 Yeah, and Instagram.

01:25:24.480 And there's many things to love about America.

01:25:26.840 I mean, there's an amazing number of things to love about America.

01:25:29.540 But imagine abandoning your history, your culture, your tradition, your borders, your institutions.

01:25:34.260 That's how Trudeau has eroded in the country.

01:25:36.880 Yep.

01:25:37.440 And I don't blame Trump for finding that weakness and shaking it.

01:25:41.340 Yep.

01:25:41.580 That's what you do when you're America first. 0.75

01:25:43.480 Well, and I don't think Canada's learned a damn thing from it yet.

01:25:47.960 I mean, the Quebec premier came out this week and basically said there was no damn way they were going to put pipelines across the country. 0.56

01:25:53.920 Right.

01:25:54.220 You can't make an economic or a global case for that.

01:25:56.680 It's like, hey, you know, have it your way, buddy.

01:26:00.020 Where do you think your transfer payments are going to come from if Alberta decides to pack up and leave? 1.00

01:26:05.560 I think that Mark Carney's ideas are 10 years too late.

01:26:09.220 But 10 years ago, carbon taxes, ESG, wokeism.

01:26:13.660 Yeah.

01:26:13.860 And he made a little statement the other day saying he's for wokeism.

01:26:17.580 In his mind, that means inclusiveness.

01:26:19.320 That's not what woke means, one bit.

01:26:20.960 He knows exactly what it means to the degree that he knows what anything means.

01:26:25.060 He absolutely is the world economic forum candidate.

01:26:28.400 Absolutely.

01:26:28.740 But I think that's not—

01:26:30.000 And a leader rather than a follower because Trudeau was a follower.

01:26:32.860 Right.

01:26:33.180 Carney's a leader.

01:26:34.100 Carney is smart and Carney is a doer.

01:26:36.640 Like, you don't get those—Chairmen of Brookfield, the—

01:26:41.940 Governor of the Bank of Canada and the Bank of England.

01:26:44.280 Yeah.

01:26:44.480 Well, and he looks to Canadians, you know, and you can understand this.

01:26:47.360 Carney looks like someone with vast international experience and credibility.

01:26:51.300 He's got rabatats.

01:26:51.880 Yeah.

01:26:52.180 He looks the part.

01:26:53.000 Yeah, he certainly does.

01:26:54.100 Well, Trudeau looked a certain part to it quite effectively.

01:26:56.820 But this is different.

01:26:57.980 Carney has that senior statesman appeal.

01:27:00.180 But values that—I mean, and then for Carney to announce his leadership as an outsider, it's like, that icy.

01:27:07.780 So you're going to start off—

01:27:08.640 On an American TV channel.

01:27:10.500 Hey, yeah.

01:27:11.480 I'm an outsider.

01:27:12.720 I can't imagine any American candidate for president announcing their candidacy on a foreign network.

01:27:18.080 Could you imagine Trump or Kamala Harris announcing they're running for the president of the United States on the BBC?

01:27:23.560 Yeah.

01:27:23.740 But, but, but, absurdly, Mark Carney announced his candidacy in, in New York City.

01:27:30.260 I, I think if Carney takes over—

01:27:33.580 Win.

01:27:34.480 Win.

01:27:34.960 He's going, win.

01:27:35.960 He's going to win on March 9th.

01:27:37.880 Yeah.

01:27:38.120 And then he's going to do a deal with the NDP and he will become prime minister—

01:27:41.360 Yeah, for a year.

01:27:42.920 —without ever having won an election.

01:27:44.800 I think they'll stretch it out till September of 2026 because there is some grounds for presuming they could do so.

01:27:51.100 Well, look, what's the alternative?

01:27:52.660 You know, at the moment, unless things invert in the polls, if Carney led the liberals to an election, they're going to get decimated.

01:28:00.060 So why would you do that?

01:28:01.120 Right.

01:28:03.100 I, I'm also worried about foreign meddling.

01:28:05.780 Carney is deep with China, communist China, and that's been a problem in Canada.

01:28:10.780 There was a, the various CSIS that's Canada's spy agency saying that the Chinese Communist Party interfered in at least 11 electoral districts.

01:28:19.120 Trudeau turned a blind eye to it because he was the beneficiary of that.

01:28:21.640 In fact, communist donors would come and make donations directly to the Trudeau Foundation.

01:28:26.640 I'm worried about ties to China and I'm worried about ties to Iran.

01:28:31.080 And I just don't think that, I don't think that Canada is going to survive as a first-ranked nation if the liberals aren't turfed this year.

01:28:41.380 Are we a first-ranked nation now?

01:28:43.020 We're clinging on by our fingernails.

01:28:44.860 The only reason we're still a first-ranked nation is because Europe has done itself in at about the same rate Canada has.

01:28:51.360 And we're lucky that we're right next to America.

01:28:54.080 Not only do we benefit economically, but a lot of their cultural discussions wash over into us.

01:28:59.200 And I think, I mean, look what Trump has done on transgenderism in sports.

01:29:02.320 He's just ended up with a stroke of a pen.

01:29:03.860 Gender-affirming care, too.

01:29:05.140 Even small things like saying we're done with paper straws.

01:29:07.800 I mean, I know that sounds small, but show me someone who's ever liked that.

01:29:12.020 I like the paper straws that come in plastic, the single-use paper straws that come in plastic wrappers.

01:29:17.420 I'm very fond of those. 0.98

01:29:18.560 But what does it say about a country that abides that stupid rule that no one likes, but we just abided it? 0.99

01:29:25.760 We just accepted it. 0.99

01:29:27.100 What does it say about the nature of the character of 40 million Canadians?

01:29:31.480 It says that we're willing to virtue signal at our own expense.

01:29:34.500 And we saw that during the pandemic and the lockdowns when things went so hard in Canada.

01:29:38.940 Yeah, that's for sure.

01:29:39.600 And it was an opportunity for people to, I'll show my righteousness by being a voluntary, self-appointed enforcer.

01:29:47.660 Yeah.

01:29:48.020 The phenomenon that—

01:29:48.900 People enjoyed that.

01:29:50.080 Man, Toronto was rife with informers.

01:29:52.460 It was something to see.

01:29:53.380 I certainly understand.

01:29:54.460 The mask patrols who would come up to you and give you—and here's the thing.

01:29:58.500 And I know we're—pandemic's gone now, but this said something about our character.

01:30:01.900 If we could have another one.

01:30:03.960 Yeah.

01:30:04.360 If you actually were worried about the virus and you saw someone without a mask, you would walk away.

01:30:10.860 You would run away.

01:30:11.520 You would take your children and run.

01:30:12.920 If someone with Ebola came into the mall without a mask, you wouldn't go up to them and say, hey, put on your mask.

01:30:18.640 Or you would if you were sacrificing yourself for the good of the planet.

01:30:21.680 But they—there was an opportunity to be more virtuous than that person.

01:30:27.760 But you have the point.

01:30:28.440 Yeah.

01:30:28.600 I think this is what—I watched so many of those videos, and I myself was a bit of a mask not wearing a dissident.

01:30:35.740 Yeah.

01:30:35.880 So I had a lot of encounters.

01:30:37.000 And here's—it wasn't even virtue signaling.

01:30:39.840 It was, I'm worried that if I didn't wear a mask, the rules would come down on me.

01:30:45.360 There would be some consequence on me.

01:30:47.300 So if you're not wearing a mask and no consequences are happening to you, the world is out of joint.

01:30:52.880 Right, right.

01:30:53.060 I made the wrong decision. 0.75

01:30:54.040 You're an indication of my cowardice.

01:30:55.920 I must fill the gap and be the consequence to you to justify my cowardice.

01:31:02.220 Yeah.

01:31:02.320 So it's not so much that I'm better than you.

01:31:05.360 It's, oh, my God, you're getting away with it, and I didn't think I could.

01:31:08.140 I'd better stop you from getting away with it because otherwise, what's my excuse for being so submissive?

01:31:12.880 Yep, yep.

01:31:13.460 It was atrocious things.

01:31:14.640 Well, and then there's the ever-present enjoyment in getting to rat on your neighbors.

01:31:20.220 And we never want to underestimate just how pleasurable that can be.

01:31:25.260 So I think 70% of people in Toronto would have worn a mask for the rest of their life if they could have continued to inform on their neighbors.

01:31:31.940 I've got to tell you one last story.

01:31:33.180 I know where time is of the essence.

01:31:36.220 Do you know what the Amish are?

01:31:38.100 Have you heard of the Amish?

01:31:38.920 Oh, yeah.

01:31:39.100 They're Christian from Europe.

01:31:41.980 They speak German amongst themselves.

01:31:43.500 They're like the Mennonites in Alberta. 0.98

01:31:44.880 Yeah.

01:31:46.040 They're very old-fashioned.

01:31:47.360 They don't use modern technology at all.

01:31:48.880 They don't drive.

01:31:49.860 They don't have electricity.

01:31:51.100 They don't have smartphones.

01:31:52.680 They're farmers, very poor, and they keep to themselves.

01:31:55.080 And they're pacifists.

01:31:56.020 That's not a thing you know about them.

01:31:57.360 They do not want to engage in any disobedience.

01:32:01.480 They keep to themselves.

01:32:02.680 They're reclusive.

01:32:03.200 There's a lot of them in Pennsylvania, and there's a lot of them in Ontario.

01:32:07.540 We heard about this from a friend of the Amish, that the Amish used to go back and forth between Ontario and the U.S. to visit the other colonies down there for dates, for family events.

01:32:19.460 So, every time the Amish would come back across the border into Canada during the pandemic, there was a border officer who would say, have you downloaded the ArriveCan app on your smartphone?

01:32:34.140 Right, right.

01:32:34.860 Now, for your American viewers that don't know what ArriveCan is, it's a mandatory app, sort of spyware, that you have to give all your health details, all your VAX details.

01:32:44.060 You have to put it in this app on your phone, or you get a $6,000 fine.

01:32:48.420 So, the Amish, they don't know a download or app. 1.00

01:32:52.680 They know what a smartphone is.

01:32:53.780 They just don't have them.

01:32:55.820 ArriveCan.

01:32:56.480 So, they would go, every time they would come back to Canada, every single person, including children, would get a $6,000 fine.

01:33:03.940 Oh, I didn't know that.

01:33:05.160 Oh, yeah.

01:33:06.880 Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

01:33:08.900 But they're not on the Internet.

01:33:11.520 They're not on phones or faxes.

01:33:13.680 They're really cut off.

01:33:15.000 So, years go by, and an Amish goes to the bank to get a loan for some livestock and pledges the farm as the security.

01:33:26.200 And the banker types in and says, I'm sorry, I can't give you the loan.

01:33:29.740 There's a lien against your farm.

01:33:31.540 Oh, yeah.

01:33:31.900 And then another Amish passes away, wants to bequeath the farm to his son. 0.99

01:33:36.880 Can't.

01:33:37.280 There's a lien on it.

01:33:37.920 You've got to sell the farm to pay the lien.

01:33:40.260 Soon, the whole community does this.

01:33:42.240 Hundreds of thousands of dollars in tickets.

01:33:45.240 Now, it was a miracle we found out about this because they don't know what Rebel News is.

01:33:48.780 They don't follow the Internet or watch TV.

01:33:51.100 A friendly non-Amish neighbor heard them talking about this and heard it.

01:33:56.240 So, we helped – there's a charity called the Democracy Fund.

01:33:59.920 I know you've spoken at one of the events before.

01:34:02.180 The Democracy Fund has dispatched lawyers to help the Amish and to crack open these cases again and redo them. 0.94

01:34:10.400 And basically, these were trials in absentia.

01:34:12.780 The Amish were not there. 1.00

01:34:15.040 And we're having some success at – it's hard to crack open a case once it's guilty.

01:34:21.680 Oh, yeah.

01:34:22.340 Oh, yeah.

01:34:22.660 But just stop for one second.

01:34:25.360 The Amish, they're not hidden.

01:34:27.080 They wear the black hats and they're unique.

01:34:29.680 They almost look like Orthodox Jews in a way. 0.95

01:34:31.360 Mm-hmm.

01:34:32.720 And in Canada, they go on horse and carriage.

01:34:35.380 Yeah.

01:34:35.720 You know an Amish when you see it. 0.98

01:34:37.580 And you can probably detect that they're not smartphone friendly.

01:34:40.940 Yeah.

01:34:41.160 How many people in the Canadian bureaucracy would have been involved from that first border agent to his manager, to his manager, to the court, to the prosecutor, to the judge, and then to convict?

01:34:55.500 But I have never heard of a lien being put – liens on all their farms.

01:35:01.120 Well, that's what would happen if you didn't pay the tickets.

01:35:03.000 I haven't met anyone else in the country who has had that happen to him.

01:35:07.160 Oh, I see.

01:35:07.460 Oh, okay.

01:35:08.260 For an Arrive Can app?

01:35:09.740 Yes, that is the ultimate way that the government gets their money.

01:35:13.120 I've just never heard of that in the country.

01:35:15.600 How many people were involved from that first time –

01:35:17.760 Wasn't that the same Arrive Can app that the Liberals paid $45 million for and that some team of hackers built over a weekend for pre-50?

01:35:24.920 Indeed it was.

01:35:25.640 Yeah, that Arrive Can app.

01:35:27.260 But not one person – there must have been 100 people involved.

01:35:31.760 Not one person said –

01:35:33.720 What the hell are we doing?

01:35:35.240 What are we doing?

01:35:36.820 Not one person.

01:35:38.380 Yeah.

01:35:38.640 Not one person.

01:35:39.560 Now, I'm not saying that's Canada only. 1.00

01:35:41.300 I bet stupid things happened in America, too. 0.99

01:35:43.620 In fact, the Amish were persecuted in America. 1.00

01:35:45.520 That's why they became politicized under the Biden administration.

01:35:49.060 They started cracking down on raw milk.

01:35:51.440 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:52.120 And I think that the Amish realized their way of life was in jeopardy.

01:35:56.200 And so a very un-Amish thing to do was they became political. 0.69

01:35:59.760 And I saw – I probably saw the footage also of these horses and carriages with the Trump flags.

01:36:04.280 Yeah.

01:36:04.520 I've never seen an Amish do that before.

01:36:06.420 They must have thought this is do or die time.

01:36:08.520 That's one of the reasons why Trump carried Pennsylvania,

01:36:10.520 is because the Biden administration was an existential threat to the Amish way of life,

01:36:17.080 including no connection to the government, just natural living.

01:36:22.300 Very interesting, the contrast between America where –

01:36:25.940 anyhow, but the Amish and Canada, they're being helped by the Democracy Fund now, so I'm pleased.

01:36:29.680 So let's close with just a bit more about rebel news in general, and then we'll go to the Daily Wire side.

01:36:37.040 I think I'll talk to you on the Daily Wire side about the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship,

01:36:41.820 because I know you went to our first conference, and so we'll chat about that.

01:36:45.160 We can talk a little bit more about the Trump administration and what Elon Musk is finding and USAID.

01:36:50.500 And so if you want to join us on the Daily Wire side for that, please, please feel welcome to do that.

01:36:56.400 The Daily Wire makes all these podcasts possible and follows me all around the world.

01:37:00.800 I'm in Winnipeg today.

01:37:02.100 I was in Florida yesterday and Washington before that.

01:37:06.320 They set up the camera crews and everything wherever I go.

01:37:09.100 It's extremely useful and handy and make all these YouTube videos possible.

01:37:13.360 And so we do an extra half an hour on the Daily Wire side, and that's for subscribers only.

01:37:19.180 But if you're inclined to follow all my material from the last 15 years, including a bunch of specials I did, too,

01:37:26.340 for the Daily Wire, Western Civilization, specials on marriage and vision and success,

01:37:32.100 and on Exodus and the Gospels, that's all available there as well.

01:37:35.960 So, you know, give it a shot if you're inclined.

01:37:39.340 Ezra, why don't you let people know where they can follow Rebel News?

01:37:42.440 Like, what's the best place to watch you or the multiple places to watch you

01:37:47.100 and your intrepid, troublemaking, rebel-rousing reporters?

01:37:50.600 Sure. I mean, rebelnews.com is our homepage, and some of our talents are on Twitter.

01:37:55.840 You can follow us on Twitter also. It's just Rebel News Online.

01:37:59.540 And we're mainly operating in Canada.

01:38:02.860 We have Avi Amini based in Melbourne, Australia,

01:38:05.120 but we love to travel to World Economic Forum,

01:38:08.680 to when there was a big freedom of speech rally in Sao Paulo, Brazil,

01:38:12.660 when the Brazilian government banned the entire Twitter app for everybody.

01:38:17.020 Yeah, yeah.

01:38:17.260 We went down there.

01:38:18.520 I've never been in a crowd of 100,000 people, or maybe it was 200,000 people.

01:38:22.720 It was astonishing.

01:38:24.080 And they actually were rallying for freedom of speech.

01:38:26.940 I'm so glad we went.

01:38:28.460 So that's a kind of kamikaze flight to Sao Paulo for one day to go to a rally and come back. 0.83

01:38:36.300 We just went to Maui, not for a vacation.

01:38:39.400 Sure.

01:38:40.460 That's what Trudeau says.

01:38:42.780 How's the wildfire reconstruction going?

01:38:45.360 I want to know because I got some friends in L.A. who want a premonition of what's to come.

01:38:49.940 It's been 18 months since the wildfires destroyed the town of Lahaina.

01:38:53.540 95% of the lots have not had a brick of reconstruction.

01:38:58.900 They just cover with gravel.

01:39:00.500 But FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Administration,

01:39:05.040 has set up camps of tiny homes.

01:39:07.940 Uh-huh.

01:39:08.540 A year and a half into it.

01:39:11.200 And there's all sorts of schemes to take the land and do other things with it.

01:39:15.540 Low-income housing, environmental housing.

01:39:17.540 Oh, yeah. Same thing's going to happen in L.A.

01:39:18.860 And it's heartbreaking.

01:39:21.160 A year and a half later.

01:39:22.780 So, I mean, Maui's a beautiful place.

01:39:26.000 That city is a heartbreaking place.

01:39:28.820 And over 100 people died in that fire, too.

01:39:30.560 And there was politics in that.

01:39:31.900 So, Rebel News, we love covering Canada.

01:39:34.760 We love covering Trump.

01:39:36.620 We have a reporter in the United Kingdom now, Sammy Woodhouse.

01:39:40.600 She was one of those 1,400 girls in Rotherham.

01:39:44.080 She was the whistleblower.

01:39:46.320 She was the one who rang the bell.

01:39:48.800 She was the one who broke the silence and went to the newspapers.

01:39:52.240 Uh-huh.

01:39:52.620 Sammy Woodhouse, moral authority, resilient.

01:39:56.620 She's our new reporter in the U.K.

01:39:59.260 So, Rebel News is here and there.

01:40:01.540 But we also travel to find the news where we see it.

01:40:04.300 Let me give you an anecdote.

01:40:05.100 I went to the town of Dundrum, Ireland.

01:40:08.820 I know you haven't heard of it because it's less than 200 people there.

01:40:11.440 It's like a picture book.

01:40:12.520 It's so beautiful.

01:40:14.160 And then the Irish government contracts with the local hotel to take over all the rooms

01:40:19.160 and moves in 240 military-aged migrant men.

01:40:24.900 And in one fell swoop, Dundrum is now a minority Irish village.

01:40:31.260 No, just what is going on over there?

01:40:35.700 And Rebel News.

01:40:36.080 In Ireland?

01:40:36.700 In Ireland. 0.99

01:40:37.140 There's a crazy country for you.

01:40:38.700 Yeah.

01:40:39.160 Man, if you want a country on the forefront of every woke nightmare you can possibly imagine,

01:40:43.700 you'd be harder pressed than to find, you'd be hard pressed to find a better example

01:40:47.480 than Ireland.

01:40:47.960 I mean, they resisted the British for centuries.

01:40:51.080 They resisted domination, but they're welcoming it now.

01:40:54.280 I don't understand it.

01:40:55.780 They never colonized anyone.

01:40:57.440 They don't have some repentance to do.

01:41:00.440 They don't have to pay reparations to anyone.

01:41:02.500 They're the ones.

01:41:03.100 Why are they doing this?

01:41:04.520 I don't know.

01:41:05.380 It's astonishing.

01:41:06.140 I'm glad I visited Ireland while it was still Irish.

01:41:08.920 And I would say to anyone out there, go visit that beautiful country while it's still Irish. 0.53

01:41:13.400 Well, we've got another half an hour to do for the Daily Wire.

01:41:16.020 Good to see you, man.

01:41:16.620 Thank you very much.

01:41:16.960 Thanks for coming to talk to me.

01:41:18.100 Thanks for having me.

01:41:18.720 And to everybody watching and listening, thank you very much for your time and attention.

01:41:22.340 Thank you so much for coming to talk to you today, thank you.

01:41:24.680 Thank you very much for your time and the Dad.

01:41:29.320 You may see you, but not be so high in the day.

01:41:29.600 You may be so high in the day.

01:41:30.760 You may see, but be safe in the day.

01:41:31.500 You may be one day.

01:41:33.700 Thank you very much.

01:41:34.620 Thank you.

01:41:35.420 Thank you.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - February 27, 2025

525. The War on Speech—and Those Who Dare to Fight It ｜ Ezra Levant

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