The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 544. When the Right Goes Too Far ｜ Dr. James Lindsay

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00:00:31.040 So, what are you in trouble for now?

00:00:33.640 The woke, right?

00:00:34.520 It's a fraught term, right?

00:00:35.820 Because you have woke, which they associate with left.

00:00:38.280 You have right, which they associate, obviously, with the right.

00:00:40.920 And so now you've got a paradox.

00:00:42.340 It's troublesome for those with a conservative bent to throw away the idea of institutional legitimacy.

00:00:48.940 The only possible antidote to really unrestrained investigation.

00:00:55.020 The idea seems to be something like the more radical the revolutionary precept,

00:01:00.380 the more likely something Luciferian is behind it.

00:01:03.420 So, now we're talking at a very abstract, I think metaphysical is the right word, level for what represents woke.

00:01:09.740 This isn't going to be, like, recognizable to your average Joe on the street who's dealing with, you know, a pride parade. 0.89

00:01:16.320 Yeah, and they are called pride parades.

00:01:18.640 They are called pride parades.

00:01:20.020 And the cardinal sin of Lucifer is pride.

00:01:23.380 Hello, everybody.

00:01:40.160 My guest today is James Lindsay, who's been a commentator on cultural affairs for a good 10 years, I suppose longer than that.

00:01:49.120 But being well known for that long, he was one of the people, along with Helen Pluckrose and others,

00:01:54.340 who published a sequence of papers in radical journals that were not genuine, let's put it that way.

00:02:02.660 And that was very scandalous.

00:02:04.480 It was part of an attempt to expose the pathology of the academic,

00:02:10.060 the pathology that had set into certain aspects of the academic institutions.

00:02:14.160 And it's become much more widespread now.

00:02:17.300 James has got himself in trouble in recent months, once again, for popularizing the phrase woke right by accusing or pointing out,

00:02:27.720 depending on your perspective, the fact that various members of the so-called right are engaging in shenanigans

00:02:36.060 that are very much reminiscent of those that characterize the radical left.

00:02:40.220 And so that's what we talk about today, the nature of the woke right.

00:02:45.560 I discussed the overlap between such behavior and classification of psychopathology with James.

00:02:53.780 The relationship between woke behavior, mobbing, extreme perspectives, self-victimization, protest, gaming the system,

00:03:05.980 and cluster B psychopathology, narcissism, histrionic behavior, borderline antisocial, and the dark tetrad.

00:03:14.180 And we attempted to determine how our views align and how they differ.

00:03:21.760 And, well, it's a walk through the dark side of ideology.

00:03:26.240 So join us for that.

00:03:29.620 Nice to see you, Dr. Lindsay.

00:03:31.740 It's good to see you, Dr. Peters.

00:03:33.100 It's been two years, eh?

00:03:34.160 It's been two years.

00:03:35.460 Yeah.

00:03:36.260 So what are you in trouble for now?

00:03:38.780 The woke right?

00:03:40.480 Lay it out, man.

00:03:42.460 It's a fraught term, right?

00:03:44.760 People see it as paradoxical.

00:03:46.720 Because you have woke, which they associate with left.

00:03:49.440 You have right, which they associate, obviously, with the right.

00:03:52.420 And so now you've got a paradox.

00:03:54.300 And so I've caused myself some trouble by calling a radical segment, not the whole right,

00:04:00.020 a radical segment of the right, woke right, which I kind of started doing, I guess, last fall.

00:04:06.740 September, I really came—I started using it before that, the term.

00:04:09.980 I didn't invent the term.

00:04:11.240 A lot of people accuse me of inventing the term or credit me with it.

00:04:13.980 This term has been in rough circulation, floating around in the Internet space for at least since the middle of 22.

00:04:20.220 So it's not a brand new term.

00:04:21.520 I just adopted it and went kind of hard about it.

00:04:24.720 And the simplest explanation I give people for, well, what do you mean by woke right?

00:04:28.580 How does that make sense?

00:04:29.240 And I say, well, it's woke people who call themselves conservatives.

00:04:32.680 And some of them don't, though.

00:04:33.840 They call themselves right-wing.

00:04:34.980 And they distinguish that conservatives and right-wing are different.

00:04:38.300 But it's woke people.

00:04:39.660 So the whole suite of behaviors, beliefs, even the deep metaphysical constructs underneath those beliefs.

00:04:48.740 And as you recently pointed out, I think the psychology that generates those beneath all of that, the cluster B personality disorders are presenting and the psychopathologies, psychopathy itself sometimes.

00:05:01.160 All of that kind of feeds upward into this concept of woke, which I think we can talk pretty fruitfully about.

00:05:09.520 But I don't believe it can only be presented through left-wing causes.

00:05:15.560 You can present it in terms of right-wing causes or religious causes or other causes because it's the pathological expression of an ideology or of a belief structure that ultimately is woke.

00:05:29.100 And so this term has confused people.

00:05:32.300 It's angered people.

00:05:33.440 I decided to try to put- 0.61

00:05:34.900 Who is it angered?

00:05:36.120 Well, this is the thing.

00:05:37.880 I, this is what has, I'll use this word.

00:05:40.640 This is a heavy word for the beginning of a conversation, but this is what has dismayed me.

00:05:44.900 I knew it would anger the people that it applies to, in my opinion, because who would want to be called woke right, first of all?

00:05:52.100 And second of all, it limits their ability to interact because they have a label that's not a good label that's six to them.

00:05:57.680 But what I'm dismayed over is that almost the, I hate to use this word so glibly, but what I refer to sort of as a bookmark as elite MAGA, or the more who's who of the conservative movement seems entirely captured by this as well.

00:06:18.720 And they also became upset, saw me as a turncoat and a traitor against the movement.

00:06:22.740 One of the things that I think, tell me what you think about this, but I don't think we should name any names in this podcast, if that's okay with you.

00:06:32.040 That's totally fine.

00:06:32.700 Okay, we can talk about why that is as we progress.

00:06:35.760 Okay, good, good.

00:06:36.980 I mean, I wasn't going to make that a cut and dried rule, but I have my reasons.

00:06:42.640 So, you just referred to some comments I made on Fox News and also, to some degree, on Rogan, talking about, and I've actually written a fair parcel on this.

00:06:58.960 You know, there's been this idea that the extremes of political belief meet, hey?

00:07:03.760 Yeah.

00:07:03.980 And so, let's hash that out a little bit.

00:07:07.380 You seem to find useful or possibly accept this additional diagnostic distinction, which would be Cluster B or Dark Tetrad.

00:07:19.600 That's right.

00:07:20.100 I actually wrote about this, I don't know if you know, in 2020.

00:07:23.060 That specifically?

00:07:24.120 In December, yes, in 2020.

00:07:25.620 I called the article something like, Psychopathy and the Origins of Totalitarianism.

00:07:31.000 And I published that at the end of December of 2020.

00:07:34.360 I put forth the hypothesis, which, of course, I got from somewhere else in significant part.

00:07:40.720 I had read that infamous, quirky, but I think important book, Political Ponerology.

00:07:46.100 Yes.

00:07:46.520 It was at Lubitschewski or something like this is that name, the author.

00:07:51.580 And I had read that and found it striking.

00:07:54.960 And at the same time, almost, I think, sometimes, you know, a chapter here, a chapter there, I read a very, I think, one of the most important essays in English, which is Joseph Pieper's Abuse of Language, Abuse of Power.

00:08:07.400 I don't know if you've heard of this.

00:08:08.720 Joseph Pieper was a Catholic and he had some, he wrote this, I don't know what else he did, honestly.

00:08:13.700 I should probably look into it.

00:08:14.800 But he wrote this essay, Abuse of Language, Abuse of Power, and talked about how tyrants arrange an abused version of the prevailing language to mislead people into the tyrannical program.

00:08:31.620 And it's in two sections, two parts.

00:08:33.820 It's been five years since I've read it, so forgive the details.

00:08:36.760 But there's, in a sense, two chapters to this long essay.

00:08:39.800 And one of the two is very Catholic in its orientation, and one of them is this more general thesis.

00:08:44.720 And it was extremely interesting.

00:08:46.160 But, of course, in political punterology, you also have the discussion of the importance of language, which, of course, we were seeing with the social justice woke movement as well, that they're misusing words like racism very blatantly.

00:08:59.980 And so, in political punterology, you have this claim he makes that he says, well, with the psychopath, what he calls a pathocracy, what you have is you have people who are psychologically disordered, who create a vision of the world.

00:09:14.820 They need other people to play in it.

00:09:16.140 And the way that they do this is by creating, he calls it, a second language.

00:09:19.300 So, it's the same language, but the words now refer to other things.

00:09:24.380 Of course, having read the postmodernists, like Derrida, I'm picturing all of those ideas.

00:09:27.660 That's what happens in the Tower of Babel. 0.96

00:09:29.660 That's right.

00:09:30.220 That's right.

00:09:30.620 That's exactly right.

00:09:31.180 Remember, words lose their meaning, and no one can understand.

00:09:34.120 That's right.

00:09:34.400 Nobody can understand each other.

00:09:35.720 So, they reorient the discourses, and then what he says actually solves the tyrannical problem.

00:09:40.700 This is the Lobachevsky's, if I'm saying his name is right, his thesis.

00:09:45.440 What solves it is that a third language evolves that unmasks the second language and allows people to see it for what it is and, in fact, laugh at it.

00:09:54.400 And so, this is what takes it apart.

00:09:56.460 So, I read these two essays, and I'm taken in by them.

00:09:59.500 Of course, I'd been reading the postmodern literature quite a lot.

00:10:02.060 I had been reading Lyotard, the postmodern condition, and he has this very confusing – they're all very confusing sections throughout the whole book – this very confusing section about this thing called legitimation by pyrology that he accuses all knowledge-seeking enterprises, including the sciences, of being legitimation by pyrology.

00:10:24.840 And there's this story that goes along where he's teaching legitimation by pyrology to his students at some point.

00:10:29.680 And – or no, somebody's teaching Lyotard to their students, a philosophy professor, and says, okay, so what do you think legitimation by pyrology means?

00:10:36.340 And everybody comes up with crazy ideas because you can barely get it from the text.

00:10:39.680 And finally, the professor says it means false legitimation through consensus.

00:10:45.480 You get everybody to agree.

00:10:46.640 And so, I framed out this essay in terms of saying that what the pathocracy or the pathological ideological state, which becomes a vehicle for that pathology, that serves the psychopaths at the center of it, the way that it operates is it generates a pyrology, a second false logic that defines the ideology,

00:11:09.080 and a paramorality, a second false set of values and virtues that also defines the parameters, the social parameters, and the psychosocial parameters.

00:11:20.880 How do I know if I'm a good person?

00:11:22.940 How do I fit in with my society?

00:11:24.720 And so, I write this long essay.

00:11:26.720 My poor assistant, I got in trouble for this.

00:11:28.900 I had him publish it on Christmas.

00:11:30.220 I was so excited about it.

00:11:31.240 Christmas Day, we put this out and, you know, a very long essay explaining that this is what I see as at the root because I was trying to diagnose and explain to people what nobody was calling woke yet at the time, at the end of 2020, or maybe we had just begun to call woke.

00:11:46.480 We were trying to diagnose and explain this social justice left phenomenon.

00:11:50.460 And so, I put out this essay and said, I think at the root underneath the whole thing, there's the same psychopathologies that motivated people like Lenin and Stalin and all this.

00:12:01.500 And I didn't have the psychological chops.

00:12:03.200 I was aware of dark triad or tetrad terminology.

00:12:08.560 I did know quite a bit about the cluster B personality disorders because I knew some people who were basically rabid feminists in the 2010s, and they were all talking about various schizoidal personality or – and that one may be cluster A.

00:12:26.280 I'm not really sure.

00:12:27.380 Yeah, it is.

00:12:27.620 And then they had the, you know, borderline antisocial history on it. 0.90

00:12:32.220 Yeah, narcissistic.

00:12:33.160 Or narcissistic would come up again and again.

00:12:35.080 And I think that actually is – tell me, is paranoids cluster C, right?

00:12:40.060 Yeah.

00:12:40.220 My reading, for example, of Derek Bell, one of the founders of critical race theory, is that he very likely suffered both paranoia and schizoidia, which are both mentioned by Lobachevsky as well as indicative.

00:12:55.200 I can't say any about any of the cluster Bs.

00:12:57.260 So, I think it's a little broader than just that one cluster appear.

00:13:02.640 Conspiracy theories are paranoid thinking, for example.

00:13:05.820 Yeah, yeah, right.

00:13:07.420 And schizoids tend to have imaginary conversations with people who aren't there on a, you know, childish, fictional level.

00:13:15.380 You know, they're pretending the world is the way that it should have been for their emotions when they were nine years old.

00:13:20.280 That's the split, the schiz and the schizoidal.

00:13:23.500 And so, they write these elaborate stories about how the world's supposed to be, and then they have outbursts when the world doesn't match that.

00:13:28.640 And Derek Bell was famous for writing these missives where he would present them as evidence of racism, say, at Harvard, where he had an imaginary conversation with a dean.

00:13:36.940 And then would write the whole imaginary conversation down.

00:13:39.060 And I'm thinking, this is so disordered.

00:13:41.820 Not just disordered thinking, but this is psychologically disordered.

00:13:45.040 That you would then present this hypothetical conversation as evidence.

00:13:51.480 But at any rate, for a long time, I've thought that's there.

00:13:55.520 Okay.

00:13:55.760 So, let's lay down some theses and tell me what you think of them.

00:14:03.880 So, the first is that about 4% to 5% of the population, maybe more, has dark tetrad, cluster B traits to some significant degree.

00:14:17.800 Okay, and so, that was histrionic, narcissistic, antisocial, and psychopathic, right?

00:14:24.640 That's the cluster B cluster.

00:14:26.600 Whether those are psychopathologies, like illnesses, that's a matter of dispute.

00:14:33.580 There are certainly forms of severe social misbehavior, manipulative social misbehavior.

00:14:42.160 Yes.

00:14:42.460 And people who fall into those categories will use cries of victimization to parasitize.

00:14:51.440 Yes.

00:14:51.960 Right?

00:14:52.200 So, they're parasitizing on empathy.

00:14:54.400 That's one hallmark, right?

00:14:57.060 They have disordered interpersonal relationships, often very intense.

00:15:02.760 They're predatory, particularly the antisocial types.

00:15:06.180 That's more straight, repetitive criminals.

00:15:08.920 Very stable pattern of behavior.

00:15:11.000 Yeah.

00:15:11.140 So, let's say 4% to 5%.

00:15:13.280 It's probably increased because of the net.

00:15:15.960 That would be my guess.

00:15:17.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:15:18.300 Because it's not well regulated on the net.

00:15:20.980 Right.

00:15:21.080 Because most of our evolved mechanisms for dealing with such people don't work.

00:15:27.340 Especially, we could talk about anonymity, because I can understand why people defend it.

00:15:32.320 But, by the same token, it allows you to escape from your well-deserved reputation.

00:15:39.640 Yeah.

00:15:40.140 Right.

00:15:40.680 Okay.

00:15:41.060 So, that's...

00:15:41.400 Years ago, by the way, you said that one of the features, you got in trouble for this, and you were right, of course.

00:15:46.520 But you said that one of the features of our moment was that there's male aggression and female aggression that express themselves differently.

00:15:53.540 And male aggression, I don't know if you use this terminology, but I think it's something to this effect, doesn't upload very well.

00:15:59.600 Yeah, it doesn't.

00:16:00.160 You can't punch somebody in the nose through the screen.

00:16:02.480 Yeah.

00:16:02.660 But female aggression, the social aggression, uploads very well. 1.00

00:16:06.440 Perfectly.

00:16:07.100 But what it turns out is this, you know, cluster B or dark tetrad manipulation uploads almost even better.

00:16:15.480 Yes.

00:16:16.380 Yes.

00:16:16.900 You can have 50 accounts.

00:16:18.400 You can, you know, switch from one to the other.

00:16:20.460 You can create entire false environments that your targets have to engage in.

00:16:26.600 Well, it's particularly true because it's literally cost-free.

00:16:30.140 Yeah.

00:16:30.480 Right.

00:16:30.720 So, you might imagine that any storehouse of value is likely to be parasitized to the degree that you can invade it for no cost.

00:16:38.740 Yeah, that's totally right.

00:16:40.880 Okay.

00:16:41.260 So, this is what I think happened to the universities, right, is that they're whale carcasses and they've been invaded by parasites.

00:16:50.360 And the whale carcass idea is a very old one.

00:16:52.800 It's a huge storehouse of value, right?

00:16:54.840 So, since World War II, the West was on a pretty productive trajectory and we generated massive storehouses of value in many, many places.

00:17:09.860 Those would be financial storehouses, but reputational storehouses, even more, that's even more germane.

00:17:15.980 Like, Harvard has both.

00:17:17.420 It did have both, right?

00:17:18.480 It did have both.

00:17:18.860 $53 billion plus a stellar reputation.

00:17:22.720 Yeah, the best brand in America.

00:17:24.160 Exactly.

00:17:24.960 In the world.

00:17:25.700 Next to Disney.

00:17:26.740 Yeah, right.

00:17:27.220 Right, which is another storehouse of value that's been severely parasitized.

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00:18:38.100 Okay, so now, so that's two things.

00:18:43.700 There's 5% of the population.

00:18:45.640 Oh, yes, the dark tetrad types are narcissistic, Machiavellian. 1.00

00:18:50.900 So they use language only as a means to manipulate towards instrumental ends.

00:18:56.220 There's no communicative intent.

00:18:58.000 It's all essentially status gaming. 1.00

00:19:01.580 They're psychopathic. 1.00

00:19:03.420 And that means they're predatory parasites. 1.00

00:19:05.720 And then they had to top it all off with sadism. 0.99

00:19:09.100 And I think that's what changed the dark triad to the dark tetrad.

00:19:12.600 I think the reason for that is that if you have a dark triad orientation towards the world, and the world turns against you, it makes you so angry because you're rejected and unsuccessful that that expresses itself in positive delight in the unnecessary suffering of others.

00:19:37.080 Right, so this is dark material.

00:19:40.440 Now, there's no reason to assume that the cluster B dark tetrad types would do anything other than gravitate towards storehouses of value. 0.98

00:19:50.800 First of all, the parasite problem is a very deep problem biologically, right?

00:19:56.080 It's so deep that some people think sex evolved to solve it.

00:20:00.660 To mix the genes, it's harder for parasites to move down the generations, right?

00:20:04.680 So that's actually one of the canonical theories for the evolution of sex itself.

00:20:08.480 Why would you take a 50% hit in terms of genetic transmission when you could just clone yourself?

00:20:14.740 Well, the parasites can breed, multiply faster than you can.

00:20:18.500 And so they have the upper edge in a lengthy battle.

00:20:22.280 So you mix up the genes in it.

00:20:24.020 Anyways, the parasite problem is a very old problem.

00:20:27.520 Okay, so I want to add one more thing to that.

00:20:30.100 So imagine that a system of knowledge is a way of representing the world and navigating in it.

00:20:37.540 Okay, so that would be like a scientific theory or an engineering theory, right?

00:20:42.500 And so you might be able to assess that theory on the grounds of objective fact, say.

00:20:50.160 Okay, but then imagine that there's a different form of language game.

00:20:54.800 And that is that you orient yourself with a lot of...

00:21:00.380 You bring a number of people together and you lay out some game rules.

00:21:05.140 They could be religious axioms.

00:21:07.420 In fact, I think religious axioms are game rules.

00:21:09.800 I think that's the right way to think about it.

00:21:11.740 But it could be political, right?

00:21:13.840 So communism, a pseudo-religion, has game rules, axioms that you have to accept.

00:21:20.180 And so does conservatism.

00:21:22.100 These are games that can integrate a large number of people.

00:21:28.160 Okay, so that's a slightly different function, right?

00:21:31.680 Because now it's like if you and I decide to play basketball, we're going to produce a hierarchy within that set of rules, right?

00:21:42.980 Whatever set of rules you lay out, people are going to be differentially able at implementing.

00:21:48.240 That's right.

00:21:48.740 Right?

00:21:49.000 Any set of rules.

00:21:50.180 That's right.

00:21:50.500 So, for example, if you were in a gym and you had schoolchildren roll and you had a competition, you'd get a hierarchy of rolling speed.

00:22:02.040 Yeah.

00:22:02.260 And then the top rollers would be the high status people within that game. 1.00

00:22:07.260 So you can organize systems of knowledge so that they're ground rules for a game and then you produce a hierarchy.

00:22:15.260 Now, hierarchical position has value.

00:22:18.560 Yeah.

00:22:19.120 So the higher you are in a social hierarchy, the more positive emotion you feel and the less negative emotion and the less likely you are to perish.

00:22:29.940 Yeah.

00:22:30.680 Partly because you have social capital and social support.

00:22:34.740 So people will compete for status within the confines of any given hierarchical game.

00:22:41.640 That's a whole different function than representation of the world.

00:22:44.400 Now, maybe you'd hope that your game represents the world, too, which I suppose that would be something like competition in a scientific lab.

00:22:53.880 Right?

00:22:54.600 Because…

00:22:55.000 Yeah.

00:22:55.340 Something like that.

00:22:56.040 Something like that.

00:22:57.080 Or, yeah, competition within a game that's actually productive and self-sustaining.

00:23:02.840 Yeah.

00:23:03.220 Right?

00:23:03.540 And the axioms of Western culture seem to be a game like that.

00:23:07.280 They do.

00:23:07.820 Right.

00:23:08.180 Right.

00:23:09.300 Now, okay, having established that, you can game it.

00:23:13.660 Yeah, of course.

00:23:15.420 Right.

00:23:15.860 And so that seems to be…

00:23:17.460 Okay, so we agree on, so far, there's nothing in that that you think is objectionable?

00:23:22.400 No, nothing.

00:23:23.140 No, that's right.

00:23:23.720 I think that's exactly right.

00:23:25.360 And it's a good way to look at it.

00:23:27.580 And I think it opens a door to how this becomes woke in a particular way if we get very, very general.

00:23:36.320 Because if you actually want to know the controversy about woke right, what's happened, Eric Weinstein told me this.

00:23:41.560 I know we said we're not going to name names, but it's positive.

00:23:43.680 Yeah, okay.

00:23:44.100 He told me that what he realized, and of course, he's a mathematician as well, and I'm a mathematician.

00:23:50.320 So he said, he told me this at ARC, actually, we were having a conversation, and he said, when I realized what you'd done is generalize the concept of woke and then applied it in a different domain, it clicked.

00:24:01.360 So it's no longer, you know, just left-wing, you know, totalitarian behavior.

00:24:07.820 It's now this mode of totalitarian behavior that I can apply in the domains.

00:24:11.600 It's transferable.

00:24:12.640 Correct.

00:24:13.380 And so with the hierarchy, well, not just the hierarchy, everything you just described, but you have these reservoirs of value and hierarchies built off of these games.

00:24:22.660 Yeah.

00:24:23.880 So there's value there, and the parasite is drawn to the reservoir of value.

00:24:27.740 Wherever it is.

00:24:28.440 And the idea is that you want to be high status, but they have natural limitations because they're not…

00:24:34.480 Competent.

00:24:35.620 They're not competent.

00:24:36.540 Yeah, they're outside of the range of what brings you to the top of these hierarchies.

00:24:41.600 They tend to be very low in conscientiousness.

00:24:43.820 They tend to be, that's right.

00:24:44.800 Right, right.

00:24:45.200 And so what would you do?

00:24:48.080 What you would do is try, there's a word for what you would try to create.

00:24:52.400 As the parasite who's now latched on, the thing you would try to, there's different, if you want to talk about it in politics, there's one word,

00:24:57.720 and if you want to talk about it in religion or more generally, there's another. 0.64

00:25:00.420 The general word or the religious word is cult.

00:25:03.360 You'll create a cult where you've taken a variation on those rules to where there's a new status game that's rigged so you're always on top of it.

00:25:12.060 Yeah.

00:25:12.320 And what you're going to do is pervert the underlying rules.

00:25:15.500 We call it an ideology or a cult doctrine.

00:25:18.440 The word in politics would be splinter, a splinter movement within a broader movement.

00:25:24.440 So MAGA is a political movement, and you can imagine a splinter off of it where the Democratic Party had a political movement,

00:25:30.240 and the Justice Democrats came along 10 years ago and made a splinter off of it that created the squad.

00:25:34.800 A lot of people know that history, at least, so it should be, you know, germane.

00:25:40.080 So the generation of a localized cult is sort of this hypothesis, and the ideology grows out of the desire for the people at the top of that,

00:25:49.480 who are parasitizing the hierarchy to create their kind of internal nested hierarchy where they're on top of the whole thing.

00:25:56.400 And the way they do that is by saying the big system is gamed, the big system is rigged, the big system is fake,

00:26:03.640 and we have a secret truth about how things really work.

00:26:06.680 And now you enter into the Gnostic kind of, I don't know, even metaphysical space.

00:26:13.180 You know, the ancient Gnostic religions, whether against Judaism or Christianity,

00:26:16.880 all held out that Yahweh, the character, the creator god of Genesis, was in fact a demon who had tricked everything.

00:26:26.840 He wasn't the actual highest unknowable god.

00:26:29.520 He was this low-level, you know, functionary god who said, you know, I'm going to rule over all this stuff.

00:26:35.380 I'm going to imprison them in this, you know, wonderful garden.

00:26:38.160 And then, whoops, they disobeyed me and almost realized the game by eating from the forbidden tree.

00:26:43.740 So, now we're going to throw them out into a real prison, and they've been, in the Heideggerian sense, they've been flung.

00:26:49.500 Their being has been flung into a world they didn't choose in which they suffer.

00:26:54.000 And you get the whole Gnostic architecture.

00:26:56.240 But this, the way that Gnosticism attracts is by saying, and I can make this kind of literal to things that are happening in our world if we have to,

00:27:05.840 is that the authorities in the existing game know so much, but they don't want you to know everything.

00:27:12.920 They don't want you to know more because you might surpass them.

00:27:16.240 They're trying to keep you down.

00:27:17.680 But if you come with me and my cult, I'll tell you the real secrets.

00:27:21.680 Partly that's an appeal to paranoia, too.

00:27:24.140 Sure.

00:27:24.480 And that's going to be more effective under conditions of extreme uncertainty.

00:27:28.380 Sure.

00:27:28.660 Okay, so let's concretize this a little bit.

00:27:30.540 Sure.

00:27:31.080 I'd like to talk about, we can talk about Douglas and Joe.

00:27:34.660 Sure.

00:27:34.900 I think let's amend our rule.

00:27:37.820 We're not going to point any fingers at woke right people.

00:27:42.560 Okay.

00:27:42.880 But I'd like to talk about the current situation.

00:27:45.440 Yeah, the situation and the ideas I think are important.

00:27:48.100 Well, you know, Douglas's point with regard to Joe was that it's troublesome for those with a conservative bent to throw out, to throw away the idea of institutional legitimacy.

00:28:05.440 Yeah.

00:28:05.640 And that's a fair comment, standalone comment.

00:28:12.340 And Joe's rebuttal to that, insofar as he had a rebuttal, because I thought the conversation was actually pretty civil, given how difficult it was, was that the institutions have been so cataclysmically faulty in the last 10 years that the only possible antidote to their falseness is really unrestrained investigation.

00:28:40.620 And Joe's been a master of unrestrained investigation, obviously, because he's allowed his interest to take him wherever it goes, which allied with a certain amount of conscience is a pretty good orienting function, as far as I'm concerned.

00:28:55.900 And I'm at a loss, to some degree, how to reconcile those few points, because I think it is a cataclysm that the institutions have become unreliable.

00:29:11.000 But let's walk through them a little bit.

00:29:14.660 I think the universities are gone.

00:29:17.160 Me too.

00:29:17.480 I think that Harvard is having this war with Trump, and that Trump is 100% right.

00:29:23.320 Yep, me too.

00:29:25.820 The president of Harvard, in my understanding, said to the Trump administration that it was unfair to punish the researchers by withholding their research funds.

00:29:37.160 But I look at that, and I think those researchers have been filling out DEI statements for 10 years.

00:29:45.900 Yeah.

00:29:46.580 So, as far as I'm concerned, they lost all their credibility.

00:29:49.700 They're not independent researchers at all.

00:29:51.500 Oh, that's right.

00:29:51.920 And they could say, and have said, that they were just following the rules.

00:29:57.020 It's like, that's not a pretty, very good excuse if you're a seeker after knowledge, right?

00:30:02.900 If the rules have become pathological, you have an obligation to cease following them.

00:30:07.340 Harvard took its DEI head, I think it was Harvard, and changed, kept the person and changed the name.

00:30:16.020 Well, that's what's, all the universities are going to do that.

00:30:19.940 Yeah, that's right.

00:30:20.520 Why wouldn't they?

00:30:21.520 That's just fundamentally deceitful.

00:30:23.900 More deceitful even.

00:30:25.240 Yeah.

00:30:25.360 Right.

00:30:25.620 It's another form of mimicry.

00:30:27.120 And I guess that's another thing we could point out about the psychopathic 5% is that they're masters of camouflage.

00:30:35.120 Yeah, yeah.

00:30:35.680 What a psychopath does is mimic competence, right?

00:30:39.620 That's right.

00:30:39.980 And usually they can't get away with it because, not for long, because they don't create, they destroy.

00:30:48.540 And eventually that evidence accrues, and then they have to leave and find another host, so to speak.

00:30:55.900 Right.

00:30:56.160 Now, online, that's a snap, right?

00:30:58.280 Yeah.

00:30:58.500 Because you can just switch, tell.

00:31:00.660 Exactly.

00:31:01.200 You can just switch your identity.

00:31:02.980 That's right.

00:31:03.300 And you've solved the problem, or you can multiply it beyond.

00:31:06.580 And then there's a bot problem online, too.

00:31:09.100 There's a tremendous bot problem.

00:31:10.020 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:10.720 We've tracked some of that.

00:31:12.200 And for some of these discussions about the woke right, 30% of the comments are bots.

00:31:18.460 Yeah, right.

00:31:19.300 So, right.

00:31:20.220 So, that means we're automating the psychopathy.

00:31:23.160 Like, I've thought for a long time, and I do think this may be the case, that virtualization enables psychopathy.

00:31:32.100 And if that's the case, we're in trouble.

00:31:34.620 We're in big trouble.

00:31:35.280 Well, at least 50% of internet traffic is criminal, right?

00:31:40.700 Holy cow, yeah.

00:31:41.380 It's 30% pornography, which is close enough to criminals, so I think distinguishing them is not useful.

00:31:50.660 And then, like, old people are just scammed non-stop.

00:31:56.780 Right, non-stop.

00:31:57.480 Right.

00:31:57.760 And so, and there's no policing, and there can't be, because you can hide so effectively.

00:32:06.060 Right.

00:32:06.920 So, and then it's, what it seems to happen is that the unrestrained psychopathy spills over into the public domain, and everyone is mad, like, in both senses.

00:32:18.680 In both senses, yeah.

00:32:19.540 Angry and insane because of it.

00:32:21.520 But let's return just for a moment to the hierarchy idea.

00:32:26.760 So, you pointed out one interesting mechanism of attaining status, which is to twist the rules slightly, create a new game, and dominate that as its originator.

00:32:40.340 Right.

00:32:40.560 So, that's a transformation of a process that's actually creative and adaptive, right?

00:32:47.360 Because if I wanted to make a variation of a business, I could do that.

00:32:52.460 And then if I served my customers well and so forth, I could climb to the top of that new business niche and succeed.

00:32:59.800 This is the parasitical equivalent to that.

00:33:02.520 Yeah.

00:33:02.660 Right.

00:33:03.140 It's to, it's to, what?

00:33:05.720 To generate a version that does nothing but attract unwarranted attention.

00:33:10.840 That would be the narcissistic spin.

00:33:12.900 And to use any means whatsoever to attract that attention.

00:33:17.360 While directing blame to the parent structure.

00:33:21.820 I think that's very important.

00:33:23.220 So, for example, with Karl Marx, he phrased his vision of communism wasn't the crude communism that was experimented with by Gracchus Babouf in the French Revolution.

00:33:32.880 It was a transcendent communism.

00:33:34.700 And I use that word because he doesn't call it transcendent communism.

00:33:37.360 He calls it communism.

00:33:38.260 But what he says, his exact wording for it is, is it's communism as the positive transcendence of private property, as human self-estrangement, and thus a complete return of man to his true nature as a human or social being.

00:33:55.020 Right.

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00:34:56.200 We'll be right back, but first, here's a sneak peek at the member-exclusive portion of this episode.

00:35:04.460 What the hell is going on?

00:35:06.400 I mean, the left is doing what the left does.

00:35:08.520 The issue is never the issue.

00:35:10.240 We're trying to tear apart society, gain advantage, the whole thing.

00:35:13.800 Everything they did with critical race theory, queer theory, you name it, they're doing it now with this new issue. 0.99

00:35:18.500 They're saying Israel is bad and the Jews are a problem.

00:35:22.640 That doesn't play well with mainstream America, so very plausible that this is coming from foreign adversaries. 0.95

00:35:29.460 China's behind it, let's say. 0.94

00:35:31.000 Qatar's behind it. 1.00

00:35:32.100 2018, the Wall Street Journal publishes an article, 250 MAGA influencers are on the payroll of Qatar trying to influence Trump's policy.

00:35:40.500 Do you think they stop?

00:35:41.500 Well, certainly in Iran's interest, the Iranians would sacrifice every single Palestinian in a second. 1.00

00:35:47.060 They're just cannon fodder. 0.63

00:35:48.700 I mean, it's obvious that Iran is funding Hamas.

00:35:51.460 Propaganda works.

00:35:52.380 Throwing the dust of moral confusion into the air blinds the eyes.

00:35:57.660 Say you tweet something that they like, it doesn't matter that it's you.

00:36:00.680 They can blow it up.

00:36:01.600 They can put tons of bots behind it. 1.00

00:36:03.120 They can put lots of positive comments on it so that they can create an artificial environment.

00:36:07.440 This is such an ugly vision of the future.

00:36:11.200 Watch the full member exclusive session now on Daily Wire+.

00:36:14.420 So that's a Nietzschean revaluation of all values.

00:36:19.460 It's really, it's much deeper than people think it's redistributing property.

00:36:25.540 It's to transcend property.

00:36:27.780 And so how does this turn into what I said is that the game, which at that point he's looking at, it doesn't matter if it's capitalism or feudalism or even slavery.

00:36:36.000 It's the private property game that he believes is the course of history.

00:36:40.080 He says, well, everything is actually that thing's fault.

00:36:44.620 And people who play that game are the people who are the problem.

00:36:47.160 And that's how he recruits.

00:36:48.420 He finds people who are being, who are losing within that game, who are being injured by that game and says, you know what?

00:36:52.960 It's the, it's not you, it's the whole, it's the whole bloody game.

00:36:58.620 Come over here.

00:36:59.500 We've got a different game.

00:37:00.840 But the trick is, who's at the top of that game?

00:37:03.900 With Karl Marx, it was Karl Marx.

00:37:06.140 It wasn't the people ever.

00:37:07.580 If you read it, you know, so what's Communist Manifesto?

00:37:10.820 We'll just break it down.

00:37:11.760 Chapter one, Communist Manifesto is titled Bourgeois and Proletarians, Bourgeoisie and Proletarians.

00:37:18.280 So he describes the relationship between the people who are playing that game, the bourgeoisie, and then the proletarians who are the workers at the bottom who are making that game possible.

00:37:26.300 And he says, all you guys down at the bottom are getting exploited.

00:37:29.760 You're being alienated from who you really are.

00:37:31.800 You're alienated from your product.

00:37:33.960 Everything's terrible for you and it's exploitation.

00:37:36.480 So the winners of that game can cheat you.

00:37:38.620 That's the relationship that he puts out.

00:37:40.220 Chapter two is communists and proletarians.

00:37:43.300 And he says, so it starts out brilliantly.

00:37:45.260 He says, so what's the relationship between the communists and the proletarians or the workers' movements?

00:37:50.900 He says, we don't disagree with any of the workers' movements.

00:37:53.500 We actually are the highest expression of them.

00:37:57.380 So we take their vision and put theory behind it and take it to a higher level of understanding.

00:38:02.900 And we're going to bring all you guys with.

00:38:05.040 And so naturally, naturally, what's going to happen?

00:38:08.000 So let's say he agitates the proletarians to revolt.

00:38:12.120 He's just said that the shepherds are going to be the Communist Party.

00:38:15.260 And then who's going to run the Communist Party?

00:38:16.860 Karl Marx.

00:38:17.900 Yes.

00:38:18.440 So it's a whole thing is a giant scam to blame the existing system, to agitate a large group of people who aren't winning within that system, to get them to switch games with him at the very peak.

00:38:28.980 Okay, so to me, I know that we've talked a little bit about religious matters, but I'm going to delve into that for a second.

00:38:37.440 Actually, before we go, put a bookmark.

00:38:39.940 Yes.

00:38:40.600 Because Hitler did the exact same thing. 0.94

00:38:43.660 The exact same thing.

00:38:44.820 Mussolini did the exact same thing.

00:38:46.240 Hitler is much more clear. 0.78

00:38:47.460 He says, we have this German race.

00:38:50.480 And back in history, he writes this fictional mythological history of the Germans.

00:38:54.000 And some of it, if you read or see it, is just kind of humorously, transparently false about how great they were in antiquity and all of this.

00:39:00.600 So we've got these Germans and they've got all this, you know, he's got this whole occult, theosophical, Aryan stuff that he's brought in from Helena Blavatsky and read the Secret Doctrine and all this weird occultism he's attached to race. 0.59

00:39:13.740 And in Mein Kampf, second volume, chapter one, he talks about, well, the Nazis have a new world concept, Weltenschwang, and that world concept will be the racial world concept.

00:39:23.200 Then he lays out how the state exists to preserve the race. 0.56

00:39:25.920 That's the point, because when you have the race, you have the people who will generate high culture.

00:39:29.480 And when you have the people who generate high culture, then you can advance society to its highest level of expression and man's highest level of expression.

00:39:36.000 Very progressive ideology.

00:39:37.360 But what he's saying is, we had this somewhere in this mythical, distant, foggy past, and we can recover it.

00:39:45.380 How?

00:39:46.280 By taking every step that we can to figure out the race and purify the race. 1.00

00:39:51.160 And guess what?

00:39:52.220 Everybody who's with me that wants Germany to be made great again after World War I and the ravages of the Treaty of Versailles, they saw it, and the challenges that came with the interwar period as we see it now.

00:40:05.040 Now, all you Germans who are mad at Europe and mad at the French and you're having a bad time, guess what?

00:40:10.580 There's a mythic Germany that you've lost and we can get it back. 1.00

00:40:13.420 Hey, come on, let's go. 0.98

00:40:14.520 And here's the ideology.

00:40:15.720 It's our racial world concept.

00:40:17.160 And here's how it's going to be organized, not with this, you know, vanguard Bolshevik model over there that the communists use, but we're going to use what I call the Führer Principle. 0.60

00:40:25.560 Not me, Hitler called the Führer Principle.

00:40:27.520 The leader principle.

00:40:28.740 Of course, who's the Führer?

00:40:30.380 Hitler. 0.57

00:40:30.780 So, he's on top and it's this absolutely rigid, top-down pyramid of authority, which is a completely different expression.

00:40:38.140 That's what a Tower of Babel is. 0.99

00:40:39.900 That's exactly right.

00:40:40.840 Yeah, with the wrong thing at the top.

00:40:42.460 But it's the same program.

00:40:44.040 The game that we've now, it's not the game that we're all playing.

00:40:47.340 It's the game that we've been forced into by this rotten circumstance, has dispossessed us from who we should be.

00:40:53.760 We're heritage Germans, for example, and we should have the benefits of our mastery of race.

00:41:00.020 But the problem is, in his sight—

00:41:01.820 It's very attractive to anyone.

00:41:03.500 That's right.

00:41:03.720 There's nothing to offer but racial identity. 0.73

00:41:05.440 That's right.

00:41:06.200 That's right.

00:41:06.820 And two things, racial identity and obedience.

00:41:10.280 Maybe a modicum of cruelty as well.

00:41:13.240 Yeah, well, that comes along for the ride.

00:41:14.780 It comes along for the ride eventually.

00:41:16.400 Yeah.

00:41:16.640 Because a lot of the young Germans were actually inspired because they thought it was going to be good for the worker. 0.92

00:41:21.580 They were inspired by the socialism part of national socialism and that it was going to be good for Germany.

00:41:26.020 And they loved their country and they wanted to see it great.

00:41:28.720 And so, they were swept up.

00:41:30.040 The Hitler youth were swept up to get into this. 0.87

00:41:31.960 But it's the same program.

00:41:33.320 There's a game.

00:41:35.060 We used to be the masters of the game.

00:41:37.260 But now we've been dispossessed from the game.

00:41:39.120 They threw us from top to bottom.

00:41:41.340 That was an intolerable experience.

00:41:44.780 By the way, this is all the story of Lucifer.

00:41:46.960 Yes.

00:41:47.160 We've been cast to the bottom.

00:41:48.480 And so, what we're going to do now is we're going to grab our rightful inheritance and we're going to build the structure that returns us to it.

00:41:55.320 P.S.

00:41:56.320 The organizational structure is the fur of principles, so I'm at the top.

00:41:59.880 Okay.

00:42:00.160 So, I want to talk about this Lucifer idea.

00:42:03.960 So, Lucifer is the morning star and he's the angel of the untrammeled intellect.

00:42:11.520 That's how he's portrayed in Milton, right?

00:42:14.040 And he's allied in some strange way with the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

00:42:19.340 If I might just interject, if he's the morning star, what do you do in the morning?

00:42:24.420 After the morning star rises, you wake up.

00:42:28.580 Right.

00:42:29.260 Woke.

00:42:29.980 Right.

00:42:30.480 Right.

00:42:30.860 Right.

00:42:31.060 The spirit of enlightenment, right?

00:42:33.700 Okay.

00:42:34.180 So, in the…

00:42:35.360 Or dark enlightenment, as it were.

00:42:36.880 Yeah, right.

00:42:37.480 Absolutely.

00:42:38.100 Well, that's the question.

00:42:39.620 What's the difference between genuine…

00:42:42.940 What's the difference between what's genuine and what's false, let's say?

00:42:46.400 Yes.

00:42:46.600 So, in the story of Genesis, God tells Adam and Eve that they can pretty much have free

00:42:52.740 reign except for one thing.

00:42:55.620 They can't…

00:42:56.980 As far as I can tell, what it means is they can't take the right to define the moral order

00:43:01.280 to themselves.

00:43:02.440 They have to abide by the moral order.

00:43:04.740 That there's an intrinsic moral order that's grounded below nature, even grounded in the

00:43:09.500 principle of being itself.

00:43:10.980 Sure.

00:43:11.500 They have to ally themselves with that.

00:43:13.240 But Eve, interestingly, Eve is tempted by the serpent.

00:43:17.420 Maybe her powers of discrimination are somewhat lacking. 1.00

00:43:21.180 Maybe her proclivity to empathy clouds her.

00:43:25.860 And maybe it's a form of feminine pride. 1.00

00:43:28.820 In any case, the serpent tempts her, telling her that if she ate of the fruit of the tree

00:43:37.840 of knowledge of good and evil, that she would become like God, which is the one thing God

00:43:41.480 forbade, right?

00:43:42.800 So, the idea seems to be something like, the more radical the revolutionary precept, the

00:43:49.280 more likely something Luciferian is behind it.

00:43:52.380 So, it's a serpent in the garden.

00:43:54.280 So, it's clearly something poisonous.

00:43:55.780 But then it gets weirdly associated with the idea of Lucifer, right?

00:43:59.460 Which is a very strange leap.

00:44:02.360 The leap is something like, what's the most poisonous of all possible serpents, right?

00:44:07.180 So, then it becomes a meta principle.

00:44:09.580 And it looks to me like it's something like the drive to power.

00:44:14.720 And that fits well with the notion that, well, Marx would be on top of the communists and

00:44:19.620 Hitler would be on top of the Nazis and Mussolini would be top of the Italian fascists. 0.71

00:44:25.580 So, if the belief system is pressed into the service of the hierarchical status of its

00:44:33.040 originators, then there tends to be something profoundly Luciferian behind it.

00:44:40.220 Yes?

00:44:40.900 Yes.

00:44:41.300 So, now we're talking at a very abstract, deep, whether metaphysical is, I think metaphysical

00:44:47.900 is the right word, level for what represents woke.

00:44:50.780 This isn't going to be, like, recognizable to your average Joe on the street who's dealing

00:44:55.340 with, you know, a pride parade and saying, well, that's woke.

00:44:58.900 I understand woke.

00:45:00.220 Yeah, and they are called pride parades.

00:45:02.560 They are called pride parades.

00:45:03.980 And the cardinal sin of Lucifer is pride.

00:45:07.680 Is pride.

00:45:08.180 Right.

00:45:08.580 It does fit together.

00:45:09.220 And the desire to replace God, to replace the fundamental moral order.

00:45:13.400 So, I figured something else out, too, recently.

00:45:17.140 So, imagine that you could found a society on power, because you can, at least for a short

00:45:23.700 period of time.

00:45:24.260 And imagine that you could organize a group of people hedonistically as well.

00:45:32.960 So, that would be the real dark side of populism, right?

00:45:36.160 We'll just have the government give people. 0.96

00:45:38.140 It's like Treasure Island in the Pinocchio video, right?

00:45:42.460 Bread and circuses.

00:45:43.580 You can get away with that for a while.

00:45:45.740 Power, hedonism.

00:45:49.120 You can abandon everything and sink into a pit of nihilism.

00:45:52.680 That's not very effective psychologically or socially.

00:45:56.000 But that begs the question that the postmodernists wrecked their ship on, I would say.

00:46:02.860 Is there a unifying principle, a high-order unifying principle?

00:46:07.580 That's the metanarrative idea, right?

00:46:09.380 Because the cardinal proclamation of postmodernism is that there's no pinnacle metanarrative.

00:46:16.600 There's no upper union.

00:46:18.700 But I think that's wrong.

00:46:20.240 I think that the principle of voluntary self-sacrifice is foundational.

00:46:25.980 And I think that's the narrative that runs through the biblical course.

00:46:28.720 Yeah.

00:46:29.560 You've given very, very eloquent speeches on that.

00:46:32.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:33.580 Well, and so then we would have a dynamic where one—because we're trying to figure out how to identify the Luciferian players, let's say.

00:46:42.500 Sure, exactly.

00:46:42.740 That seems reasonable, right?

00:46:44.480 So they're in love with the creations of their own intellect, but that intellect is not serving the principle of voluntary self-sacrifice.

00:46:53.820 It's serving the principle of power.

00:46:55.540 Right.

00:46:55.720 You remember in the gospel account, when Christ is in the desert, the third temptation that Satan lays before him is the temptation of power.

00:47:03.740 That's right.

00:47:04.240 Right.

00:47:04.580 Everything that you see before you.

00:47:06.660 Yes.

00:47:07.160 Matthew 4.

00:47:08.000 If you follow me.

00:47:09.180 That's right.

00:47:09.500 Right, right, right.

00:47:10.820 So that seems—okay, so you don't have any problem with the underlying dynamic of that explanation.

00:47:15.780 No, not at all.

00:47:16.620 No, not at all.

00:47:17.380 And I see, you know, a fruitful discussion because, you know, this is, of course, very high order thinking and expressing.

00:47:26.900 But the experience for people on the ground is exactly what we were mentioning earlier.

00:47:31.580 It's those traits of the dark tetrad, like Machiavellianism and all of this. 0.51

00:47:35.640 So they're going to experience—what does that look like in everyday experience?

00:47:38.860 The swarms on social media, the cancel culture, the struggle session, you know, this kind of stuff, the lying and the manipulation.

00:47:47.040 The cries of victimization.

00:47:48.240 The gaslighting is the—you know, it's called sometimes DARVO, deny, attack, reverse the role as a victim and offender.

00:47:54.560 When you catch a psychopath out, they do a—it's an acronym DARVO.

00:47:59.480 They deny that it's them.

00:48:00.120 Yes, there's a number of people operating like that at the moment.

00:48:02.020 Yeah, that's right.

00:48:02.300 It's everywhere.

00:48:03.440 And so these are the experiences.

00:48:04.760 So the expression that I could give to Thai people just to bring woke right back to the conversation is we're familiar now with the machinations of woke left, right? 0.95

00:48:13.980 And what I would say is, well, what's woke right is same energy, different direction.

00:48:19.600 You have all of those same exact—whether it's Luciferian at the high level, whether it's struggle sessions, Machiavellianism, sadism at the low level.

00:48:27.440 Well, we've got a hierarchy there.

00:48:27.820 It's like it's Luciferian at the core.

00:48:30.680 Then we've got the cluster B dark tetrad traits.

00:48:33.960 Then there's the mechanisms that you described, right?

00:48:36.240 So that's a differentiated—that gives us a way of identifying.

00:48:39.700 So if we use the kind of, you know, pop word of the day of, you know, vibes or energy, it's same energy, different direction.

00:48:47.560 This is exactly like what I was already saying with Marx versus fascism or communism versus fascism.

00:48:54.300 And we could go as weirdly deep as you want.

00:48:56.460 There's a few ways to get to it.

00:48:57.600 Like you say, well, obviously communism is kind of the arch-progressive ideology, but I disagree.

00:49:04.040 It's probably fascism.

00:49:05.080 But differently, communism was actually obsessed.

00:49:09.360 If you read Marx, he's obsessed—what did I—what was this?

00:49:12.640 Well, the quote, positive transcendence of private property is human self-estrangement and therefore a complete return of man.

00:49:21.140 To what?

00:49:22.040 His real true self.

00:49:23.720 It's obsessed with state of nature.

00:49:25.640 It's obsessed with we've been alienated all the way back to the beginning.

00:49:29.340 For him, private property marks the fall.

00:49:31.540 So the serpent came along and didn't offer an apple but offered the fundamental right to exclude to private property.

00:49:37.900 But you have the same general concept.

00:49:40.020 So they're obsessed with looking all the way back to the state of nature.

00:49:43.060 Well, and that is also an unbelievably effective move on the psychopathic side because the basic criminal attitude is—and I've dealt with criminal types quite a lot.

00:49:55.100 It's pretty straightforward.

00:49:56.340 It's perfectly fine for me to take what you have because you took it.

00:50:02.020 Yeah, that's right.

00:50:03.000 Right.

00:50:03.460 And that's exactly what you hear.

00:50:04.360 And so Marx has just nailed that perfectly.

00:50:05.780 That's exactly what it is.

00:50:06.700 That property is theft.

00:50:07.640 As soon as property is theft, the criminal is the—

00:50:12.620 That's right.

00:50:13.020 —is the moral agent.

00:50:14.200 And that happened in the Soviet Union, right?

00:50:15.820 Because in the prisons, the criminals were treated as moral agents, whereas the political prisoners were treated as, you know, what would you say?

00:50:24.740 The kinds of heretics who deserve nothing but the longest possible sentence and death. 1.00

00:50:29.680 Right. 1.00

00:50:30.080 Right.

00:50:30.460 Because the criminals were victims.

00:50:32.200 Right.

00:50:32.280 If property is theft, criminals are victims.

00:50:35.500 That's a hell of a satisfying outcome for the criminals.

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00:51:43.380 That's right.

00:51:44.460 And so what you have in that same paragraph, so you have Marx saying that what we're going to do is get back to our state of nature.

00:51:51.680 But we're not going to go back.

00:51:53.380 It's not going back.

00:51:54.400 He's just discussed Babouf and the failure of the French Revolution commune model.

00:51:59.880 That it was all low-end.

00:52:01.260 It was, you know, grubby. 0.91

00:52:02.360 It was dirty.

00:52:03.080 They had no high culture.

00:52:04.300 They had not the same as Hitler's interest. 0.86

00:52:05.960 No high culture.

00:52:07.060 He says, this is wrong.

00:52:08.460 We're going to have a transcendence.

00:52:09.920 So we're not going to go back to state of nature.

00:52:12.200 We're going to transcend.

00:52:13.000 And all he's doing is rehashing Rousseau, which had passed through Egel and Schiller.

00:52:17.020 And what Rousseau had said is we need to be – because he wanted to live a free libertine lifestyle, not liberal but libertine, but he liked being a citizen, didn't he?

00:52:27.200 And so he wanted savages made to live in cities.

00:52:30.120 I mean in the French, however, but that's what he literally called them.

00:52:33.660 Savages made to live in cities.

00:52:35.020 That's the completion of man.

00:52:36.880 The omega of man.

00:52:38.320 Alpha of man is the primitive communist.

00:52:40.660 The omega of man is when you reach the point where you have the same sharing attitude and liberated lifestyle as the beginning, but now you have all the high culture and benefits of all the production in between.

00:52:54.680 So it's a perfectly paradoxical and impossible thing, but Marx calls it the riddle of history solved that knows itself to be its own solution.

00:53:05.100 And so that's the alpha and the omega.

00:53:07.940 So that libertine offering is an interesting twist.

00:53:10.660 I've been trying to puzzle out – I wrote this article with Jonathan Paggio on the scarlet beast of the apocalypse, and it was really illuminating to me.

00:53:21.300 There's lots of – the book of Revelation, I just don't understand, me and many other people.

00:53:26.320 But I understand some of it.

00:53:28.420 So the scarlet beast is the degenerate state.

00:53:31.840 So imagine that when a uniting principle disappears, so that would be the Nietzschean death of God, you get the postmodern condition, which is that there's no uniting narrative.

00:53:41.560 And so the state grows a lot of different heads.

00:53:45.140 It's kind of a hydra now.

00:53:46.740 It's collapsing into chaos, symbolically speaking.

00:53:49.040 It has a lot of different heads because nothing's uniting it.

00:53:51.440 And that's why it's blood red, because that's a very dangerous condition.

00:53:54.840 It's a fragmenting condition.

00:53:57.160 Okay, so that's the scarlet beast of the degenerate state.

00:54:00.140 This is a symbol of the end of times.

00:54:02.700 And I don't mean the end of time per se.

00:54:07.300 This is a symbol of how things end, right?

00:54:11.140 Always, always.

00:54:12.500 Yeah, sure.

00:54:12.800 Yeah, no, no, that's right.

00:54:13.760 Right.

00:54:14.160 I follow you.

00:54:14.760 Okay, fine.

00:54:15.460 So the state deteriorates still.

00:54:17.060 It's a multi-headed hydra, okay?

00:54:19.960 But then it has something on its back, and that's the heart of Babylon. 0.99

00:54:25.380 Yeah, the mother of all prostitutes. 0.99

00:54:27.040 So the idea there is that when the patriarchal state or psyche loses its central function, 1.00

00:54:36.380 female sexuality commoditizes, right? 1.00

00:54:39.560 And we can see that's, like, just happening everywhere right now.

00:54:42.780 OnlyFans is the greatest example of that.

00:54:45.220 That woman in Great Britain who's sleeping with, like, 100 men a night, 1.00

00:54:49.720 or I think she managed 1,000 in a week, something like that.

00:54:52.640 I won't say her name, but she's become very well known for the absolute outrageousness 1.00

00:54:59.840 of her behavior.

00:55:00.560 Her mother is her business manager.

00:55:03.760 It's so awful that you just can't believe it. 1.00

00:55:06.900 Okay, so you have this mother of all prostitutes. 1.00

00:55:11.380 So that's the central spirit of commoditized female sexuality. 1.00

00:55:15.320 That's going to happen when the state deteriorates.

00:55:18.140 Of course, female sexuality is going to commoditize. 1.00

00:55:20.920 It's when the state loses its protective and integrative function.

00:55:25.140 And so she offers this libertine pleasure, right?

00:55:30.500 So you could think of power.

00:55:32.320 That's a way that power, that's what power offers to those who are willing to use power.

00:55:37.280 It's like, why do you want control over someone?

00:55:39.640 Well, to have your way with them, obviously.

00:55:42.060 And there's going to be a sexual component to that.

00:55:44.380 That was certainly the case in Marx's own life, for example.

00:55:47.140 So you can imagine the fantasies that possessed him, too, would be, well, once we establish this new utopia.

00:55:53.920 And the communists promised free love.

00:55:56.620 That's a common leftist, as if it's love, which it isn't, and as if sex is free, which it never is. 0.98

00:56:05.000 Because what happens at the end of the scarlet beast horror of Babylon dichotomy, say, interaction, is the beast kills the prostitute. 0.96

00:56:17.500 So that's perfect, right? 0.94

00:56:19.140 Because so the degenerative patriarchal state breeds the commoditization of female sexuality, but ultimately destroys all pleasure. 1.00

00:56:28.420 And I also think that's happening now.

00:56:32.260 I mean, you have radically high rates of virginity, for example, among Japanese and South Koreans.

00:56:39.920 And in the West, more broadly, a breakdown, an apparent breakdown of the relationship between men and women, not least politically, right?

00:56:48.600 With the men starting to fly off into the conservative sphere of influence and the women becoming increasingly liberal.

00:56:55.580 So that's another, it shows you the fact that these mythological tropes appear fitting, shows you how deep the malaise is, right?

00:57:03.860 Sure.

00:57:04.240 The culture war is way deeper than the political.

00:57:06.280 And a vehicle to this is transgression, right?

00:57:09.060 Transgression of the existing order.

00:57:11.460 And transgression, I think, is such a key feature.

00:57:13.940 In fact, I've described recently a cult of transgression that you could easily describe on the woke left, right?

00:57:20.100 And it kind of fits my same energy, different direction, or same energy, opposite direction.

00:57:23.960 Because you see with both of these two wokes, but also other, these kind of degenerate ideologies and psychosocial dynamics, you have this cult of transgression where the way, it's like the payment to be in the cult is to transgress a little further. 0.81

00:57:41.300 You start with, oh, yeah, well, we need LGBT representation.

00:57:44.920 Okay, well, you've already transgressed because the T is different from the LGB.

00:57:48.780 It's completely different.

00:57:49.900 It refers to trying to work out a disintegration of transgression.

00:57:56.240 Well, there's nothing in lesbian, gay, or bisexual that is a disintegrated psychology. 0.96

00:58:02.300 There's something fundamental in the transition that's a disintegrated psychology.

00:58:06.000 If you have gender dysphoria, if we admit that that's even real, you have a disintegrated psychology. 1.00

00:58:11.300 Your phenomenology of self and your ontology of self are out of whack.

00:58:16.320 And, in fact, what they do then is once it gets out of whack, they invert it.

00:58:19.400 And they put this phenomenology first and say the ontology has to follow.

00:58:22.560 So, if we do enough surgery, somehow we've changed ourselves.

00:58:25.500 This is completely disordered thinking.

00:58:27.420 So, it's already a transgression, but let's not get lost in the means.

00:58:29.520 Well, and the foundational principle there is sexual identity, right?

00:58:33.340 Of course.

00:58:33.720 This is a very strange thing about these fragmented identity claims is that they, like, an identity should unite and it should serve a psychological and a social purpose simultaneously.

00:58:45.140 Sure.

00:58:45.480 An identity that's predicated on hedonistic orientation isn't an identity at all.

00:58:51.020 And this is where the transgression is. 0.98

00:58:52.580 What does the whore present? 1.00

00:58:54.640 The whore. 1.00

00:58:55.040 She presents a, she presents sex out of its context. 1.00

00:58:59.160 Yeah, yeah. 0.88

00:58:59.680 Free, as you said, sex is never free. 0.98

00:59:01.420 Free sex. 0.99

00:59:01.480 She presents free sex, right? 0.99

00:59:02.960 So, what she presents is— 0.97

00:59:03.760 Yeah, the ultimate delusion. 0.98

00:59:05.080 Free sex. 0.56

00:59:06.120 The ability to transgress.

00:59:07.800 And so, you go from LGBT itself as a word, but we need representation.

00:59:11.240 Okay, fine.

00:59:11.680 So, we need to put gay characters on TV. 0.55

00:59:13.780 Maybe that's a problem. 0.61

00:59:14.800 Maybe it's not a problem.

00:59:15.760 Who knows?

00:59:16.680 Well, we take a step.

00:59:18.020 What has it got to be after this?

00:59:19.220 Well, we need gay characters in children's programming. 0.90

00:59:22.560 It's a further transgression.

00:59:23.800 Then we need them in schools.

00:59:25.040 Now we need a drag queen to come read to the kids. 1.00

00:59:27.340 Well, the drag performance needs to get more radical.

00:59:29.420 And you can see it in the pride parades, too.

00:59:31.080 It's the inclusion of more and more transgressive stuff.

00:59:33.600 This is a cult of transgression, and it's how these things go kind of crazy.

00:59:37.280 Okay, so those trans— 0.91

00:59:38.240 Now, we can link the transgression back to your original idea that you have a hierarchy of social status, let's say.

00:59:48.140 Let's call it conservative.

00:59:49.260 And so, now the parasitic predators swarm in, and they splinter it. 0.78

00:59:55.620 They splinter with transgression.

00:59:57.700 Sure.

00:59:57.920 Right.

00:59:58.160 So, that's an important thing to note.

01:00:00.320 But there's a deeper thing here, which is what—it's also what Mao did with his red identity, black identities, which were split themselves, is that the target is actually normal integrated society.

01:00:11.480 And the excuse for the targeting is the opposite side pathology, right?

01:00:16.480 And so, with Marcuse, to go back to the left, he writes this essay in 1965, Repressive Tolerance.

01:00:22.580 He says, okay, there's three kinds of tolerance.

01:00:25.660 He says there's democratic tolerance.

01:00:27.220 That's what a normal, healthy society has, and it only can tolerate so much, it'll fall apart.

01:00:31.380 And then there's the repressive, right-wing, maybe it's fascist, whatever.

01:00:35.640 He actually uses the word fascist repeatedly. 0.99

01:00:37.820 And then what he says is, actually, those two things are the same thing because of different stupid excuses, nuclear weapons or whatever else. 0.99

01:00:44.360 So, actually, we live in the repressive state now. 0.99

01:00:46.760 Yeah, right.

01:00:47.280 All game rules are repressive.

01:00:49.080 And his argument is actually that all capitalist society will degenerate into fascism unless it's resisted.

01:00:55.520 And he says the answer to this is liberating tolerance.

01:00:58.380 And what is liberating tolerance?

01:00:59.500 And his own definition, which is, you know, close to, from memory, a quote, it is, we will extend, liberating tolerance, he says, would mean we extend tolerance to movements from the left and we withdraw tolerance from movements from the right, which is everything to his right.

01:01:15.040 Okay, so, speaking as—

01:01:17.040 It's amazing how that's played out in psychopathology, that's splitting, by the way.

01:01:20.220 And sociologically, I mean, one of the things I've noticed about my home country, it's really stark in Canada.

01:01:28.700 If conservatives protest, they're flattened.

01:01:32.840 Yeah.

01:01:33.220 Left protest, there's no holds barred.

01:01:36.620 No matter how pathological it becomes, the left-wing protesters are always the heroic victims.

01:01:42.860 The trucker convoy was a great example of that, right?

01:01:45.400 Because, you know, it was a disruptive demonstration, although remarkably peaceful, and the legal repercussions are still unrolling.

01:01:54.620 And I think maybe it's—tell me what you think about this—I think it's because it might be partly the spread of the ideas of Marcuse through the culture.

01:02:02.720 Yeah, absolutely.

01:02:03.000 But I also think that people are genuinely people.

01:02:08.540 There's something to genuinely fear when actual conservatives protest, because they don't do it until they're pushed to the wall.

01:02:16.560 That may be.

01:02:17.300 That may be, but I think it's—

01:02:18.100 Well, is it also an indication that something very fundamental has gone sideways?

01:02:22.420 Because conservatives aren't the protesting type.

01:02:24.680 No, but I think that the trucker protest tells us something different, because the target—these people, this is one of the most genuinely peaceful, pro-liberty—it was the freedom convoy, and they meant it.

01:02:38.600 And they policed their own borders, and they kept the radicals out on the right.

01:02:42.500 So what happened was they showed up, the left showed up to protest the normal people.

01:02:48.220 I'm not going to say the middle, the normal people, everyday freedom-loving Canadians, and the excuse was there's a far right.

01:02:56.420 Yeah, that's right.

01:02:57.160 So what happened is—I call this ideological flattening or dialectical flattening, but psychologically it's splitting.

01:03:04.860 The person that's occupying the leftist deranged position has flattened liberals and conservatives into a single monster.

01:03:11.960 Yeah.

01:03:12.300 Not so they can fight the conservatives, so they can fight the liberals.

01:03:15.660 And that's happening on the other side.

01:03:17.760 Conservatives will look over and say, well, there's the far left, and all the classical liberals are actually in their camp, and they've flattened them.

01:03:23.800 It's the same splitting behavior.

01:03:25.040 And again, so this is, again, an emphasis of this woke—an exhibition of this woke right phenomenon of same energy, different direction, opposite directions in this case.

01:03:36.180 And the idea is that they are attacking the middle through the proxy of the far opposite side.

01:03:41.740 So I brought up Marcuse because he's also famous for eros and civilization and the sexual liberation, and we were talking about the pride and the queer theory.

01:03:49.600 Well, those left-wing movements in the 60s all floated on a cloud of free love.

01:03:53.720 That's right.

01:03:54.060 They did.

01:03:54.480 But look at the pride parade.

01:03:57.080 Okay, so we need representation and visibility for gay people because there's a repressive society.

01:04:02.740 That's the excuse.

01:04:03.720 It's the far right.

01:04:04.540 They won't let anybody come out.

01:04:05.820 So they come out.

01:04:06.680 And is that where it stays?

01:04:08.020 Is that what they're actually targeting?

01:04:09.280 No.

01:04:09.680 You have fetishes. 0.90

01:04:10.660 You have all kinds of perversion, degeneracy. 0.92

01:04:13.480 I mean, I don't want to even talk about what it is explicitly, which is an advantage to queer theories. 1.00

01:04:18.060 Nobody will say what it actually says.

01:04:19.500 Yeah, right. 0.57

01:04:19.960 It's so gross. 0.68

01:04:20.700 Yeah.

01:04:20.860 Yeah.

01:04:20.940 But what they were targeting were liberal societal norms, real societal norms, healthy, let's forget liberal, healthy, not degenerate societal norms about sex and sexuality.

01:04:34.020 Well, degenerate's the right word, too, I think, because I think one of the hallmarks, because if you are a relativist, you might say, well, who are you to place modes of orienting yourself in the world in a hierarchy?

01:04:48.360 Yeah, sure.

01:04:48.840 Because you described some of them as degenerate.

01:04:51.180 The reason that they're degenerate is because when they're employed, they degenerate.

01:04:56.100 Yeah, sure, of course.

01:04:56.540 Right.

01:04:56.820 So they're games that violate their own principles as they play themselves out.

01:05:02.780 But there's nothing about a guy in fetish gear at a parade in front of children, for example, that's challenging the norms of a repressive sexual society that thinks that it should be procreative, heterosexual sex only.

01:05:16.300 They've – that's an excuse.

01:05:19.060 It's pretext.

01:05:19.760 What they're after is the norms that hold regular society together.

01:05:23.060 And my argument is that the woke right does the same thing.

01:05:25.460 They have a cult of transgression, too.

01:05:27.300 They sometimes call it being based, but that's a completely bad word for what they're trying to describe because based should mean based in reality, although the origin of the term is slang for being free-based on cocaine.

01:05:38.660 So they're out of their minds, right?

01:05:40.420 It's just funny how this lines up.

01:05:42.080 But what do they do?

01:05:43.100 Okay, so the left has told us, the far left has told us, you can't be racist.

01:05:47.100 Racist is worse. 0.92

01:05:47.940 Everybody's a racist. 0.92

01:05:48.960 And, of course, they completely made degenerate the concept of racism, the word racism, the accusation, the sky is racist, going for a hike is racist.

01:05:57.320 But they aren't trying to reclaim and say, okay, no, wait, racism is bad.

01:06:01.980 We don't want to be racist, and nobody should be racist, and the left completely ruined it, so we need to reclaim the term and have this healthy societal norm about discrimination and bigotry.

01:06:12.680 What they're doing instead is saying it's time for us to be a little bit racist.

01:06:15.660 The left said don't be racist, so we're going to be really racist.

01:06:17.920 And we're going to do it in order to make, you know, to own the libs, as they sometimes phrase the thing, right?

01:06:25.100 But really, it's to reject woke culture as the pretext.

01:06:28.000 They're not acting racist or blaming Jews for everything going wrong in society or, you know, getting further and further into the racial expression or the white racial consciousness or whatever, the white supremacy or even white nationalism in order to challenge the left.

01:06:42.340 No, they're doing it to challenge, again, the center, the healthy core of society and its norms.

01:06:49.060 So that's the target.

01:06:50.280 It's a cult of transgression, but they point in opposite directions.

01:06:53.680 Left, in some sense, says don't be racist.

01:06:56.020 They say do be racist, and this is, again, the communist fascist thing.

01:06:59.320 We're going to liberate everybody.

01:07:00.520 That's what the communists say.

01:07:01.940 They come along.

01:07:02.780 It screws everything up, and, you know, there's all this oppression in society.

01:07:06.700 We're going to liberate people from oppression, and everything's going to be utopia.

01:07:09.760 That's Marcuse in a nutshell, okay?

01:07:12.180 Defined primarily by full sexual liberation.

01:07:14.800 Of course.

01:07:15.360 You know, there is.

01:07:17.440 Hold on, hold on.

01:07:18.240 It all goes to hell, and so then the right wakes up, wakes up, woke, and says, actually, I think the oppression is what was holding us together, so we should do more of it.

01:07:28.480 And they create a hierarchy in society that's very rigid, again, with that Führer principle from the fascists.

01:07:33.600 Because Mussolini had his lighter version of it.

01:07:35.880 Hitler concretized it for Nazi Germany in 33 following Carl Schmitt's book, The Legal Basis for the Total State.

01:07:43.020 They created the legal structure for this thing.

01:07:47.140 But the idea was that there is a hierarchy that kept society on the rails.

01:07:51.260 And we're going to go back to that hierarchy in extreme pastiche form.

01:07:56.340 And there's a reward structure socially for the people in the club to push the envelope and attack those normal, everyday societal norms in the center.

01:08:06.000 So, again, same energy, opposite direction.

01:08:07.880 But the point is the transgression, which they call queering on the left.

01:08:12.060 We don't have a word for it on the right.

01:08:14.000 They call it being-based, but that's not the same as transgress.

01:08:18.340 But it's still transgression.

01:08:20.200 And so…

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01:09:12.760 That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. 1.00

01:09:15.100 Same pathology for different reasons.

01:09:22.860 Same idea, like Mark said, you go all the way back to the state of nature.

01:09:26.460 You're going to combine it with the N, so you're going to become the alpha man who's also the omega man. 0.87

01:09:31.560 In other words, the alpha and the omega of humanity.

01:09:33.480 So there's you become god man, homo deus, as Harari named it in his book, homo deus. 0.94

01:09:40.740 And then on the right, they don't go that far back.

01:09:43.880 They don't go back to the state of nature.

01:09:46.100 They're not interested in the state of nature.

01:09:47.200 They're interested in the mythic past from which they've been dispossessed that never existed, a romantic vision of who they were at some golden era in the past that they've been ejected from.

01:09:59.080 But they're still now the alienated outsider.

01:10:01.800 They're still – the alien force came in, dispossessed them from who they are, and now they're going to claim it back.

01:10:07.260 And the way they're going to do it is by organizing a fascist structure as an answer to the degeneracy, a very rigid structure and a too rigid structure in answer to the not rigid enough structure of communism.

01:10:21.740 And then what they do is the exact same transgression against the center to build their own power out in their local little cult against the big game of society.

01:10:34.040 They're attacking the game of society to build their numbers with the hope of being able to replace it in both cases.

01:10:39.840 So this is why I call these people woke.

01:10:42.400 It's not just that they've gone on cancel rampages and struggle sessions.

01:10:46.140 It's not that they've put me through a relentless struggle session since September without stopping or doxed my family and everything else in their wrath.

01:10:54.740 They said – I said – James calls them all woke right, and they decide to prove me wrong by canceling me and struggling me and doxing my family.

01:11:04.040 And acting exactly like we all went through in 2015 when you stood up about the pronouns.

01:11:09.300 And so – and that's the thing, Jordan.

01:11:11.340 Back then, you stood up and you paid.

01:11:14.480 That was ugly.

01:11:16.080 And you were right.

01:11:17.600 You saw that when they said you will use these literally transgressive pronouns.

01:11:23.380 Or else.

01:11:24.180 Or else.

01:11:24.940 You said no, and it's like the world lost its mind on you.

01:11:29.600 And it's – looking back, it's almost quaint, but it wasn't quaint to go through.

01:11:33.740 But the thing is, is you were right.

01:11:35.520 And then Peter and Helen and I did the grievance studies papers, and we were right. 0.82

01:11:40.440 So we were right, and I see the same structures, the same patterns, the same behaviors, the same reactions, the same explanations with slight modifications.

01:11:50.120 That's the difference between communism and fascism as modern archetypes.

01:11:55.120 And what I see when I – you know, you can think of those as modern era mythologies for how society is supposed to be organized.

01:12:01.700 And I see the same thing.

01:12:03.240 And the thing is, we were right then, and we're right now.

01:12:06.320 Yeah, I've been thinking about it as the hijacking of belief, right?

01:12:10.320 That's a nice phrase. 0.98

01:12:11.600 It's a parasite. 0.94

01:12:12.460 Yeah.

01:12:12.960 And that hijacking of belief is this – just to take it all the way back to the Gnostic thing, that's what the Gnostic cults did before Irenaeus put them down. 0.54

01:12:22.920 And then, you know, Augustine comes along and mentions them all and says there had been 84 heresies or whatever up to this point by the 4th century.

01:12:31.700 The Gnostic cults did the same thing. 0.57

01:12:34.080 They splintered off from the true faith.

01:12:36.040 They came up with the idea that they had secret knowledge.

01:12:38.000 That's the Gnosis, but look at what the cults were, like the Manichaean cult.

01:12:41.940 The Manichaean cult is an absolute splitting of the world into total good and evil.

01:12:46.260 It's not us and them.

01:12:48.120 It's us and everybody else against us.

01:12:51.200 And the idea is that the evil is embodied in the world and the good have to slowly work to consume the evil and turn it to good.

01:13:00.600 And eventually, you end up with all good.

01:13:02.680 But this Manichaean battle between good and evil is what Marx codifies on the first page of the Communist Manifesto when he says that in a word what he's talking about, the entirety of the story of history is oppressor versus oppressed.

01:13:16.380 It's a fundamental dualistic metaphysics.

01:13:20.340 There's no unity of society with a kind of melange of different people in different places working, playing different roles, sliding up and down the ladder.

01:13:28.360 No, there is a fundamental dualism.

01:13:30.520 You might move within each of those, but there's a fundamental dualistic structure, and they are in conflict.

01:13:36.900 That's the first line of the Communist Manifesto after the famous preface.

01:13:41.580 The first chapter, the history of man is the history of the conflict of contending classes, oppressor and oppressed.

01:13:50.380 And he says that what it's going to result in is the revolution of society or the common ruin of the contending classes.

01:13:59.280 So either the bottom is going to come up on top and take over, the splinter group is going to replace society itself, or they're going to ruin everything. 0.75

01:14:08.280 They'll destroy everything that they can't have.

01:14:10.160 And then we're looking at, you know, beastly behavior, and I don't mean animals.

01:14:15.320 So do we, maybe we could lay out some of the behavioral markers so that, because we might as well make this concrete. 0.70

01:14:23.580 I can tell you what I've observed about the behavior of psychopathic parasites online. 0.93

01:14:30.640 Okay. 0.99

01:14:30.940 Sure.

01:14:32.080 Maybe if you have five of these, you're one of them.

01:14:35.260 You know what I mean?

01:14:36.100 Yeah, that's often a diet.

01:14:37.160 So anyone alone isn't enough.

01:14:38.540 Right, diagnostic criteria.

01:14:39.800 So in the comment sections, for example, anonymity is a marker.

01:14:45.660 Use of a transgressive cover name, often satanic, often.

01:14:52.940 So, you know, and it's tongue in cheek, but no, it's not.

01:14:57.000 Yeah.

01:14:58.120 Derisive language, right?

01:15:00.120 So that would be language indicative of contempt.

01:15:02.660 Yeah.

01:15:03.080 Contempt's a really toxic emotion.

01:15:05.760 Contempt and disgust.

01:15:07.740 Hitler used disgust language to characterize the Jews, not fear language.

01:15:11.660 That's right.

01:15:12.080 And you destroy things you're disgusted by.

01:15:14.260 That's right.

01:15:14.680 You stay away from things you're afraid of.

01:15:16.720 It says in Mein Kampf that one of the, early in the book, in the second chapter, that one of the best moments, he doesn't say it's the best moment of my life, but he realizes, and it's clear that he's very happy about it, was the moment when he realized that the Jew is not a German, and the German is not a Jew.

01:15:29.940 Right.

01:15:30.300 That's disgust.

01:15:31.220 Right, right, absolutely, absolutely.

01:15:33.120 They use derisive and contemptuous, what do you call those?

01:15:40.380 LOL is a good example.

01:15:41.960 Oh, yeah, dismissive kind of.

01:15:43.840 Yeah, acronyms.

01:15:44.660 Yeah, acronyms.

01:15:45.260 Now, you know there's lulls culture online.

01:15:47.640 Yes, of course.

01:15:48.000 I do it for the lulls, and that's a hallmark of sadism.

01:15:51.100 Now, those people, people who do those things, so those are four or five things, anonymity, pathological, nom de plume, derisive language, and then the use of these contemptuous and cool acronyms.

01:16:08.940 Belittling, they use the word dude, that's a real good marker. 1.00

01:16:12.740 Yeah.

01:16:13.200 Or they'll use a derisive nickname to kind of equalize the playing field.

01:16:17.740 Yeah, I'm Jimmy a lot.

01:16:20.000 You're Jimmy.

01:16:20.680 Yeah, right. 0.66

01:16:21.980 Diminutive.

01:16:22.620 They'll use a diminutive.

01:16:23.600 Jimmy concepts instead of conceptual James.

01:16:26.560 Right, right, right.

01:16:27.560 That started on the left, and now the right uses it.

01:16:29.980 Right.

01:16:30.840 Yeah, yeah.

01:16:31.660 So, those are markers.

01:16:34.440 What else have I seen?

01:16:36.340 An insane rise in explicit antisemitism.

01:16:40.880 And that's been going on for about five years, and it's worse all the time.

01:16:44.660 Open Nazi apology. 0.56

01:16:45.740 Yeah, well, that's starting to creep in now.

01:16:46.480 Which isn't just the apology, too.

01:16:47.680 It's the transgression.

01:16:49.180 It's the meme, sometimes meant to be funny.

01:16:52.180 So, you have plausible deniability or the other social functions of humor come into play, but they'll post the meme of Hitler.

01:16:58.260 Why?

01:16:58.760 Because you're not supposed to.

01:16:59.940 Yeah.

01:17:00.340 That's why.

01:17:00.740 So, you have norms of decency around different things.

01:17:03.820 One of those norms in, again, mainstream, healthy society has been that we're not going to valorize Nazis.

01:17:12.020 We're not going to lionize these guys.

01:17:13.680 And you have, I'm not talking about the historians or whatever else that are coming out and rehashing David Irving or any of that. 0.99

01:17:19.680 I'm talking about these, to use the word that's on the internet, shit posters. 0.99

01:17:25.360 Yeah. 1.00

01:17:25.560 Who come and post pictures of Hitler with a smile on his face. 0.79

01:17:28.560 Or they're translating his speeches into English and clipping out parts where he's rousing Germany to a cheerful future.

01:17:36.440 Oh, he just loves his country.

01:17:37.880 That's one of the messages they put.

01:17:39.000 They love it.

01:17:39.920 I'm sorry.

01:17:41.220 Read Mein Kampf.

01:17:42.220 Actually read it.

01:17:43.100 He's utterly clear about the point of his state is to preserve the race and the biggest pollution of the race, to preserve it against pollution of inferior races. 0.98

01:17:51.520 And the most inferior race is the Jews. 1.00

01:17:54.200 Yeah. 0.99

01:17:54.480 Absolutely clear.

01:17:55.500 The demonization is absolutely visible in 25 when he publishes that way before they say, well, it took until 38, 39, maybe 42 when Churchill got involved.

01:18:05.740 That's when they had to really start hating the Jews. 0.53

01:18:08.440 And it known, and that current is all the way back to the beginning. 1.00

01:18:10.860 So, this shit posting problem. 0.99

01:18:14.520 So, that's part of the enabling of the psychopaths by the free social media platforms, right? 1.00

01:18:20.940 By the costless social media platforms.

01:18:23.260 Do you have any sense?

01:18:25.040 So, we're working out ways to identify people.

01:18:27.620 Swarm behavior, by the way, is another one.

01:18:30.320 Another marker.

01:18:31.300 Another marker.

01:18:32.060 So, you'll get one of these derisive replies.

01:18:35.660 And within minutes, it'll get 600 likes on it.

01:18:38.880 You don't know how that happened.

01:18:39.980 And from an account with 30 followers and your replies, somehow it gets 600 likes in a minute or two minutes.

01:18:45.380 And then, you know, everybody piles up.

01:18:46.640 It's like a biblical plague of locusts.

01:18:48.860 Yeah.

01:18:49.100 And then they jump in on you and say, you got ratioed.

01:18:52.180 Of course, a lot of it's bots that people bought.

01:18:54.260 But what they do is they say, my comment was more popular than your comment.

01:18:57.980 Therefore, you're not very interesting and we're very interesting.

01:19:00.400 So, we're ascendant.

01:19:01.540 And by the way, that's psychologically really impactful if you don't know what's going on.

01:19:06.280 Yes, definitely.

01:19:07.620 You feel like the crowd, they tell me this all the time.

01:19:10.720 We're all laughing at you.

01:19:12.160 We're all laughing at you.

01:19:13.420 We're all laughing at you.

01:19:14.120 Yeah, right.

01:19:14.860 It's very sophisticated psychological torment.

01:19:18.960 Unfortunately, for my antagonists.

01:19:20.960 Hallmark of sadism.

01:19:22.040 I understand the game and therefore—

01:19:24.540 Does it affect you?

01:19:26.700 Only when I'm not prepared for the pathway by which it comes.

01:19:31.260 When I'm aware of it, no.

01:19:34.680 But not at all, except maybe to encourage me.

01:19:37.060 Somebody put up a meme of me the other day.

01:19:39.080 And it shows a guy building a castle standing inside the wall, a big giant guy.

01:19:43.040 And it's me.

01:19:44.000 And there's all these people throwing rocks.

01:19:45.660 And it says, on the meme, it says, James, when his haters throw rocks at him, and I'm building a castle out of all the stones they throw at me.

01:19:52.980 And so, no, not so much, except they can catch you off guard.

01:19:57.220 They can catch you off guard.

01:19:58.520 And what catches you off guard the most, and this is the power of the struggle session, what will catch you off guard the most is when one of your friends buys it.

01:20:07.240 They see it, and they go with the people that are haranguing you.

01:20:12.200 That's when it'll get you.

01:20:13.640 That's when it'll affect you.

01:20:15.660 So, the proliferation of this kind of pathology seems to be linked to…

01:20:21.580 Another characteristic is the attempt to get people to distance themselves from you.

01:20:25.560 I face that very frequently.

01:20:27.780 You want to get away from him.

01:20:29.380 He's contaminated.

01:20:30.340 Yeah, well, that's discussed terminology again, right?

01:20:32.860 You're the carrier of something pathological.

01:20:34.900 That's right.

01:20:35.820 Yeah.

01:20:37.100 So, the social media platforms…

01:20:41.540 So, Musk's perspective, and Rogan's to some degree too, mine for that matter, is that the best antiseptic is sunlight.

01:20:50.000 But there might be a flaw in that reasoning, and maybe you can help me think it through.

01:20:55.880 So, when I'm sitting across from you, I bear the weight of my words, right?

01:21:03.160 It's going to have an impact on the net, but it's also going to impact the relationship I have with you.

01:21:08.660 And so, I'm constrained or regulated.

01:21:13.140 I'm regulated in my utterances by consequences.

01:21:17.080 And so, there's never been a time, really, where free speech existed without reputational weight.

01:21:26.540 Now, maybe pamphleteering and that sort of thing, but that's trivial compared to what we have now.

01:21:34.220 Right.

01:21:34.560 I mean, how many people can you get your pamphlet to, and what sort of effect is that going to have?

01:21:40.460 That was back in the time of writing, but now your pathology can multiply virtually without end.

01:21:47.120 And then I'm thinking, well, maybe it's necessary.

01:21:51.200 I thought for Twitter, for example, that there should be two sections.

01:21:55.240 There should be a section where people's identification is validated and a section for the anonymous trolls, and that should be demarcated.

01:22:06.280 So, you can go visit hell land of trolls if you want, but you know that they're not real people.

01:22:12.280 Yeah.

01:22:12.460 Now, the problem with that, as far as I can tell, is the digital ID problem.

01:22:18.380 I mean, the net allows people to escape the reputational consequences of their psychopathology, their destructive, sadistic, corrosive, power-mad, hedonistic psychopathology.

01:22:33.740 It's a terrible thing, and people have no idea how dangerous it is.

01:22:38.500 But if you verify IDs electronically, then we walk down the route to Chinese totalitarianism, something like that, as far as I can. 0.57

01:22:50.980 And if you read the original documentation, Stanford University has its DigiChina project and translates Chinese documents.

01:22:57.000 In 2014, they're putting forth a social credit system, and they actually explain that the purpose of the social credit system is to achieve a perfect socialism, because it's not just a social control mechanism.

01:23:08.600 It's a Pavlovian training mechanism.

01:23:11.240 Right, nudging.

01:23:12.340 Yeah, it's like your life becomes a video game nudging you to hold the beliefs that the state wants you to have.

01:23:19.780 Well, the guy who just got, the man who just got elected prime minister in Canada, he says two quite stunning things in his book, which no Canadians read, because we'll leave that lie.

01:23:33.540 That's why 75% of the world's fossil fuels have to stay in the ground, okay, that's proposition number one, and he's made that a centerpiece of his thinking for 20 years.

01:23:44.240 There's no priority guiding every financial decision by every individual and every corporation that should be prioritized higher than decarbonization.

01:23:59.140 That means every single thing, and then he says, of course, there'll be losers in consequence of that, but it's a price we're willing to pay, we have to pay, the sacrifice of others.

01:24:10.080 So this is a man who thinks that net zero is the proper game, and that if you were a moral actor, decarbonization would be your god, right?

01:24:22.040 Regulate every single one of your decisions.

01:24:24.500 Well, out of that comes the kind of pathocracy that you described.

01:24:28.840 It's like, you've seen this already, there's edges appearing, there's credit cards, they were issued in Australia that track your carbon footprint, right?

01:24:37.840 And at the moment, you're still allowed to spend on whatever you want, regardless of your, at the moment, that's exactly right.

01:24:45.700 And once you're fully trackable, well, then we know what'll happen, you know exactly what'll happen.

01:24:52.000 You'll be nudged in whatever direction benefits the power mad Luciferians, that's exactly what'll happen.

01:24:58.660 It's not just social control, it is social training.

01:25:02.840 It is operant conditioning.

01:25:06.440 I was looking for the word.

01:25:07.680 It's operant conditioning in its most sophisticated form, especially when equipped with the technologies of AI.

01:25:14.300 That's for sure, because the AI systems trained on your purchasing behavior, for example, will be able to predict your likely behavior with a stellar degree of accuracy.

01:25:23.700 That's right.

01:25:24.040 I mean, the advertisements that you're fed already do that to some degree.

01:25:27.780 That's right.

01:25:28.580 So, the only solution I can think of to this is to, because the digital ID solution seems to be troublesome, to say the least, means no privacy whatsoever, forever, fundamentally.

01:25:46.660 Yeah.

01:25:46.960 So, I guess it's exposing this and hoping that people make wise decisions, you know, and I guess that's what you're trying to do with the woke right idea.

01:25:57.220 Yeah, there are workable activities that could step into play.

01:26:03.520 For example, you know, a lot of times you'll hear, especially libertarians, talk about the revision to the Smith-Munt Act in 2012, and now our intelligence communities.

01:26:12.780 We know that our social media is awash with propaganda.

01:26:16.940 Well, there are legal constraints that you can put at least on your own government to prevent that.

01:26:20.600 You can take – if you want to have a task force for doing something in terms of, say, national cybersecurity, keeping Russian and Iranian and Qataris and Chinese bots and bad actors, Pakistani, these are where a lot of these bot networks are coming from. 0.82

01:26:39.000 Keeping those influence campaigns, foreign influence campaigns out with a dedicated cybersecurity project is going to clean up a lot of it.

01:26:46.940 You think the administrators can stay ahead of the bots?

01:26:49.760 I don't think so.

01:26:51.360 Actually, so far, not yet.

01:26:52.760 I don't know.

01:26:53.300 No, that's – I mean, that's another problem, right, is that the system transforms itself so rapidly that it's very difficult to regulate it.

01:27:00.140 What I'm thinking is, you know, Trump created a space force because of maybe space war or whatever it's supposed to do, and I'm not quite sure.

01:27:06.420 But this – like, there's – I don't want to make it a branch of the military, but I'm using it as an analogy.

01:27:12.900 I don't know.

01:27:13.840 Maybe it should be a branch of the military.

01:27:15.400 Yeah, a cybersecurity or cyber warfare division, an entire branch that is dedicated to that because this is a serious problem for – and again, the bigger the country, the more power it wields, the more likely it is to be attacked.

01:27:33.620 Not to be rude to people from Botswana, but there's just not that much incentive to go mess around with their internet. 0.91

01:27:41.100 There's a ton of incentive to mess with MAGA, which is informing Trump.

01:27:45.040 Well, we've already tracked, too, some of the groups that I'm working with. 0.95

01:27:50.040 Women 18 to 34 have political opinions that are way off-center compared to everyone else, plus they're dreadfully miserable. 1.00

01:27:58.580 Yeah. 0.99

01:27:58.960 Right?

01:27:59.420 Well, they get 80% of their news from TikTok, and TikTok is a bought farm fundamentally.

01:28:05.360 Yeah.

01:28:05.760 And the algorithms are designed to produce exactly the kind of upsetting pathology that characterizes female voters between the ages of 18 to 34. 0.99

01:28:18.360 Well, I mean, this is why woke is so female-coded. 0.88

01:28:20.620 Everybody kind of wonders, what in the world is critical race theory?

01:28:22.980 Why is it so female-coded? 0.93

01:28:24.420 It's because it all – every bit of what we call woke on the left passed through feminism to mainstream. 1.00

01:28:28.540 So, it was all built off of pathological women trying to figure out how to pathologize young women to join their club or cult, really. 1.00

01:28:36.020 And so, it all ended up getting twisted.

01:28:38.160 If you look at communism, like Soviet communism –

01:28:40.260 That's part of that oppressor, oppressed narrative, too.

01:28:42.420 Soviet communism was not a feminine endeavor, right? 1.00

01:28:46.140 Brutal gun shooting, the whole thing.

01:28:47.620 And there's a lot of things you could say about the snitch culture and all of this, but it's not like what we have now.

01:28:54.880 But the reason is because the ideology passed in order to become viable in our society, to find the receptor sites.

01:29:01.300 The receptor sites for Marxism in the West were overwhelmingly young white women, and it had to pass through feminism to be able to get the parasite to attach as a mind virus in order to get there because that's what it was designed to do. 1.00

01:29:14.160 On the other hand, therefore, you have young men who've been ravaged.

01:29:19.300 You – I literally – Dave Rubin and I were talking the other day, and he said that you, as an individual, have done more than – and I believe him – more than any individual on the planet Earth to help young men who've had a hard time through all of this nonsense for the last 20 to 30 years.

01:29:36.320 They need a voice in the wilderness to reach and help and guide them and get them to clean their room and all of the stuff.

01:29:41.860 And to identify the parasitic predators and keep them at bay.

01:29:45.880 So what we have now is we had a vulnerability complex that attached to young girls.

01:29:50.860 Now we have another one that's rising in answer that's attaching to young men.

01:29:54.620 So the tragedy for me – and I'm watching this, and I get – you know, I talk – I'm integrated with the moms networks of the grassroots moms all over the country, right?

01:30:03.180 And, of course, these demons have come up with all kinds of salacious rumors to spread with regard to that to discredit me and to remove me from their activity, which are all nonsense.

01:30:11.180 But at any rate, what I'm watching is all these moms – I'm hearing from these moms already – who are telling me – they aren't using this phrasing.

01:30:20.520 This is my phrasing.

01:30:22.280 By the grace of God, their daughters didn't get pulled into the trans-destruction mania, and now they're having to watch their sons get lured into Nazism. 0.64

01:30:32.660 And that's why I'm so worked up about this woke right cult of transgression.

01:30:37.800 I get it.

01:30:38.480 You're a 15-year-old boy.

01:30:39.780 Maybe you're a 19-year-old boy.

01:30:41.100 You're a 25-year-old.

01:30:42.300 Maybe you're a 35-year-old who hasn't grown up and got out of his parents' basement.

01:30:45.680 And you think it's funny to post a mustache man meme or two here and there to rile up the libs and the normal people and the left and everybody else.

01:30:52.780 Plus, you're irritated that your identity has been targeted for 30 years.

01:30:56.720 Yeah, of course.

01:30:57.320 On racial grounds, right? 0.70

01:30:58.940 Just like the way the Germans felt with the imposition of the Treaty of Versailles, they saw it that way, whether we do or not.

01:31:05.760 How the Germans felt about the French and broader Europe and the rest of their standing in the world.

01:31:09.860 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:10.300 And they were impoverished and they were broken down.

01:31:12.900 It's the same powder keg.

01:31:15.680 Or maybe that's not the right word.

01:31:17.460 It's more like a tank of propane because you're going to pump it up and get it to spray fire when it comes out the other end.

01:31:24.680 Right?

01:31:24.880 It's like more like a flamethrower.

01:31:25.340 One of the things people can watch for everybody who's watching and listening is beware of anything that's motivated by resentment.

01:31:32.660 You know, the mere fact that you have had difficulties that are somewhat arbitrary, first of all, doesn't distinguish you from the main run of the human race.

01:31:42.140 But if the motivation stems out of resentment, the probability that something horrible has got a hold of your soul is extremely high.

01:31:49.300 So, I go back to the first thing I said, right?

01:31:51.280 What's woke right?

01:31:52.240 Well, it's woke people who act like—or call themselves conservatives.

01:31:56.140 It's woke people who call themselves conservatives or right-wing, right?

01:31:59.160 So, there it is.

01:31:59.980 You just said it.

01:32:01.000 They are people who feel alienated and dispossessed from their heritage.

01:32:05.380 Victimized.

01:32:05.780 They're filled with resentment, and they channel it through left-wing or right-wing causes.

01:32:11.180 Yeah.

01:32:11.720 You know, that's the story of Cain, eh?

01:32:16.060 It is the story of Cain.

01:32:17.640 Cain's sacrifices are not rewarded.

01:32:19.260 He invites the spirit of resentment in to occupy his soul and becomes not only murderous, but the progenitor of genocide and the precursor to the flood, right?

01:32:35.840 And the media—it's so interesting, James, because—so, Cain's sacrifices are rejected, and it's a little ambiguous as to why.

01:32:44.280 Yeah.

01:32:44.460 And then he goes to complain to God, and God says—basically, he says, you think you're miserable because you're failing.

01:32:51.860 It's like, you're not.

01:32:53.380 There's lots of things you could do about failing.

01:32:55.700 If you did well, you would be accepted, right?

01:32:59.380 What you've done is you have allowed something terribly tempting that crouched on your doorstep to enter your house and have its way with you, and that's why you're bitter, resentful, and murderous.

01:33:11.860 It has nothing to do with your failure.

01:33:14.460 It's this additional variable, which is—because the thing is, everyone, in a sense—this is true of heroes in mythology—everyone starts out lowly.

01:33:25.200 Everyone starts out dispossessed.

01:33:27.040 Everyone starts out oppressed, right?

01:33:29.520 And there's angles of your identity that you can construe as oppressor, oppressed narrative with no problem. 0.89

01:33:37.440 If you decide that you've been treated unfairly and now you have a right to resentment and revenge, then, well, then you're the monster that breeds genocide.

01:33:47.080 Yeah, and so what does Cain do?

01:33:48.480 He's rejecting the system that he has to succeed in order to be rewarded.

01:33:53.480 He's rejecting—so there's a system out there.

01:33:55.220 There's a Luciferian government there, too.

01:33:55.920 And so what does he do, though? 0.95

01:33:56.940 He goes and kills his brother. 0.60

01:33:58.280 He goes and murders a successful guy. 0.89

01:33:59.880 His successful brother.

01:34:00.300 His successful brother.

01:34:01.220 Yeah, exactly.

01:34:01.620 So it's exactly the same thing.

01:34:04.460 A lot of these guys that are pushing the woke right stuff—and there's nothing wrong with a new character coming on the scene.

01:34:10.480 Every one of us was a new character.

01:34:12.380 I mean, you were doing great work, obviously, and you have a body of work extending well before that as a professional.

01:34:16.660 But then you spoke up in 2015 about that horrific pronouns bill, and you sort of became a different monster, a public intellectual.

01:34:26.960 It's a curse word, I think, but you know what I mean.

01:34:29.460 And this, you know, my favorite moment ever.

01:34:33.680 I was skeptical of you until I watched you talk to Kathy Newman, and then I watched you do the most effective—

01:34:38.440 You should have been skeptical of me to begin with.

01:34:40.760 The most effective judo I've ever seen in a discussion in my entire life, and I said, I watched that.

01:34:47.400 I was going to tell everybody how you were wrong, and I watched it, and you impressed me, and I was like, I have to like him now.

01:34:54.020 How annoying is that?

01:34:55.040 Isn't it?

01:34:55.740 Yeah.

01:34:56.100 That's for sure.

01:34:56.900 No, but—and I think that that's a thing.

01:34:59.400 I don't—I was excited to start learning as opposed to being annoyed and resentful.

01:35:05.460 I'm like, oh, well, I was wrong about this guy.

01:35:06.940 Move on.

01:35:07.500 Right, right, right.

01:35:07.940 You know, but a lot of these fellas that are pushing the woke right stuff appeared in the anger and in the repression, is the word, of 2020, more 2021.

01:35:19.360 They don't have a body of work extending before that.

01:35:22.040 They just kind of came out of the ground.

01:35:24.420 And good, I get it.

01:35:25.800 There was a lot going on.

01:35:27.120 There were people making great commentary about liberty regarding the COVID policies.

01:35:31.580 There were people making great commentary about the obviously critical race theory, cultural revolution running amok, and the queer theory later. 0.56

01:35:39.860 So, I'm very grateful to everybody who came along.

01:35:42.580 But these people that have a longer perspective and a deeper body of work, it's hard because—

01:35:47.680 Well, that's a crucial—so that touches on Douglas' point, too, is that to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

01:35:54.340 That's right.

01:35:54.540 I mean, one of the things—

01:35:55.720 Institutions are corrupt, but due diligence matters.

01:35:58.040 Right, right.

01:35:58.900 What has this person who's saying these things done, and to whose benefit is what they're saying?

01:36:06.340 Yeah.

01:36:06.480 So, you have these pretenders.

01:36:07.720 I think this is—maybe we can end with this at this section.

01:36:11.280 I think what we'll do, maybe on the Daily Wire side, is talk about the anti-Semitic trope.

01:36:18.580 But I'd like to introduce that for a bit.

01:36:21.080 I don't understand it exactly.

01:36:24.860 I don't understand why the woke right, for example, is particularly capitalizing on anti-Semitism.

01:36:32.100 Do you just think that that's a particularly daring and attention-seeking transgression?

01:36:40.380 I mean, are they proclaiming that they'll violate something sacred because that's how brave they are?

01:36:48.120 This is a yes and.

01:36:49.900 A yes and.

01:36:50.500 Okay.

01:36:51.860 Yes, it's this transgressive.

01:36:53.800 Also, they know good and damn well that there are certain transgressions you can't come home from.

01:37:00.060 You go too far down that road, there's no way back.

01:37:03.060 And not because your new friends are going to call you names like a sellout or a cuck or dual loyalties or whatever.

01:37:08.820 There are certain lines you go down and you don't get to come back.

01:37:12.340 And they know that, so they get to trap people there.

01:37:14.600 But this, I believe, and we will probably or possibly disagree on this, I think that there are particular malevolent actors that are pushing this who have grander designs than getting clicks, getting an audience, satisfying their own narcissistic urges, transgressing boundaries.

01:37:32.520 I think that there are – and it makes total sense if I were to say China is supporting all of it.

01:37:37.280 And if I had evidence, you would believe –

01:37:38.360 And Iran. 0.53

01:37:39.060 Oh, China, Iran, Qatar, Pakistan, like the Arab League, Russia, and the deep state possibly.

01:37:47.160 Trump is a problem to something.

01:37:49.240 We can tell by the way that they've organized the Trump derangement program that's just screwed Canada royally but has deranged Americans. 0.54

01:37:58.920 I have family members I can barely relate with still because of Trump derangement.

01:38:03.400 I was obviously cast out in disgrace from the last vestiges of the left when I said I was going to vote for Trump and said publicly on a podcast, Make America Great Again.

01:38:13.460 They lost their minds and said I went crazy.

01:38:16.380 And so Trump is something, right?

01:38:18.280 There is a lot of reasons besides just the fact that he's the sitting president of the United States of America.

01:38:23.380 He's doing a lot of things to this global order that are disruptive and in a good way in all likelihood.

01:38:30.780 There's a lot of motivation to take this man down.

01:38:33.320 And if you can fragment his base by getting them to argue about Israel good, Israel bad, that's a deep cut that you've just taken cloven MAGA in half.

01:38:43.700 So all it takes is one event, something that goes down in Israel, and Trump takes a side, takes the Israeli side, and bang, they can pull the thing apart.

01:38:53.820 So it's like a wedge.

01:38:54.700 It's not just what we were saying.

01:38:56.280 It's also a wedge to hammer deeper and deeper and deeper into MAGA.

01:39:00.500 The people who like Israel and the people who don't, or the conservative movement, or America itself, which therefore implicates the left side doing the same exact thing at the same exact time, using the horrible events of October 7th as their pretext.

01:39:16.220 Well, we'll continue this on the Daily Wire side, and that way we can attract the maximum number of commentators who say that the reason we saved the discussion of anti-Semitism for the Daily Wire section is because I'm under the thumb of Ben Shapiro and the Zionists. 0.87

01:39:31.240 Oh, me too. Don't worry.

01:39:32.420 I don't have Ben Shapiro. I'm Zionist. I'm paid by Israel. I've turned out the lights for them on Friday for years. Don't worry. 0.77

01:39:39.560 I see. Okay. Well, apparently we're in the same club.

01:39:42.240 Yeah.

01:39:42.400 All right. Good talking to you, sir. Thanks very much for coming in today.

01:39:47.080 Thank you to all of you who are watching and listening and to the film crew here in Scottsdale for making this completely preposterous conversation possible and helping us broadcast the word to be awake and be careful who you're listening to and why you're listening and what spirit possesses you while you're listening.

01:40:08.100 And beware of resentment, boys and girls, that everyone in hell is resentful. So good to talk to you, sir.

01:40:16.380 You too, Jordan.

01:40:16.940 Thank you.

01:40:27.560 Bye.

01:40:27.980 Bye.

01:40:28.560 Bye.

01:40:28.720 Bye.

01:40:29.060 Bye.

01:40:33.000 Bye.

01:40:33.360 Bye.

01:40:33.720 Bye.

01:40:35.700 Bye.

01:40:36.740 Bye.

01:40:39.720 Bye.

01:40:40.920 Bye.

01:40:44.280 Bye.

01:40:44.840 Bye.

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - May 05, 2025

544. When the Right Goes Too Far ｜ Dr. James Lindsay

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