James Lindsay has been a commentator on cultural affairs for a good 10 years. He was one of the people, along with Helen Pluckrose and others, who published a sequence of papers in radical journals that were not genuine. They were part of an attempt to expose the pathology of the academic establishment. And it s become much more widespread now. James has got himself in trouble in recent months, once again, for popularizing the phrase Woke by pointing out that various members of the so-called right are engaging in shenanigans that are reminiscent of those that characterize the radical left.
00:04:39.660So the whole suite of behaviors, beliefs, even the deep metaphysical constructs underneath those beliefs.
00:04:48.740And as you recently pointed out, I think the psychology that generates those beneath all of that, the cluster B personality disorders are presenting and the psychopathologies, psychopathy itself sometimes.
00:05:01.160All of that kind of feeds upward into this concept of woke, which I think we can talk pretty fruitfully about.
00:05:09.520But I don't believe it can only be presented through left-wing causes.
00:05:15.560You can present it in terms of right-wing causes or religious causes or other causes because it's the pathological expression of an ideology or of a belief structure that ultimately is woke.
00:05:37.880I, this is what has, I'll use this word.
00:05:40.640This is a heavy word for the beginning of a conversation, but this is what has dismayed me.
00:05:44.900I knew it would anger the people that it applies to, in my opinion, because who would want to be called woke right, first of all?
00:05:52.100And second of all, it limits their ability to interact because they have a label that's not a good label that's six to them.
00:05:57.680But what I'm dismayed over is that almost the, I hate to use this word so glibly, but what I refer to sort of as a bookmark as elite MAGA, or the more who's who of the conservative movement seems entirely captured by this as well.
00:06:18.720And they also became upset, saw me as a turncoat and a traitor against the movement.
00:06:22.740One of the things that I think, tell me what you think about this, but I don't think we should name any names in this podcast, if that's okay with you.
00:06:36.980I mean, I wasn't going to make that a cut and dried rule, but I have my reasons.
00:06:42.640So, you just referred to some comments I made on Fox News and also, to some degree, on Rogan, talking about, and I've actually written a fair parcel on this.
00:06:58.960You know, there's been this idea that the extremes of political belief meet, hey?
00:07:46.520It was at Lubitschewski or something like this is that name, the author.
00:07:51.580And I had read that and found it striking.
00:07:54.960And at the same time, almost, I think, sometimes, you know, a chapter here, a chapter there, I read a very, I think, one of the most important essays in English, which is Joseph Pieper's Abuse of Language, Abuse of Power.
00:08:14.800But he wrote this essay, Abuse of Language, Abuse of Power, and talked about how tyrants arrange an abused version of the prevailing language to mislead people into the tyrannical program.
00:08:46.160But, of course, in political punterology, you also have the discussion of the importance of language, which, of course, we were seeing with the social justice woke movement as well, that they're misusing words like racism very blatantly.
00:08:59.980And so, in political punterology, you have this claim he makes that he says, well, with the psychopath, what he calls a pathocracy, what you have is you have people who are psychologically disordered, who create a vision of the world.
00:09:35.720So, they reorient the discourses, and then what he says actually solves the tyrannical problem.
00:09:40.700This is the Lobachevsky's, if I'm saying his name is right, his thesis.
00:09:45.440What solves it is that a third language evolves that unmasks the second language and allows people to see it for what it is and, in fact, laugh at it.
00:09:56.460So, I read these two essays, and I'm taken in by them.
00:09:59.500Of course, I'd been reading the postmodern literature quite a lot.
00:10:02.060I had been reading Lyotard, the postmodern condition, and he has this very confusing – they're all very confusing sections throughout the whole book – this very confusing section about this thing called legitimation by pyrology that he accuses all knowledge-seeking enterprises, including the sciences, of being legitimation by pyrology.
00:10:24.840And there's this story that goes along where he's teaching legitimation by pyrology to his students at some point.
00:10:29.680And – or no, somebody's teaching Lyotard to their students, a philosophy professor, and says, okay, so what do you think legitimation by pyrology means?
00:10:36.340And everybody comes up with crazy ideas because you can barely get it from the text.
00:10:39.680And finally, the professor says it means false legitimation through consensus.
00:10:46.640And so, I framed out this essay in terms of saying that what the pathocracy or the pathological ideological state, which becomes a vehicle for that pathology, that serves the psychopaths at the center of it, the way that it operates is it generates a pyrology, a second false logic that defines the ideology,
00:11:09.080and a paramorality, a second false set of values and virtues that also defines the parameters, the social parameters, and the psychosocial parameters.
00:11:31.240Christmas Day, we put this out and, you know, a very long essay explaining that this is what I see as at the root because I was trying to diagnose and explain to people what nobody was calling woke yet at the time, at the end of 2020, or maybe we had just begun to call woke.
00:11:46.480We were trying to diagnose and explain this social justice left phenomenon.
00:11:50.460And so, I put out this essay and said, I think at the root underneath the whole thing, there's the same psychopathologies that motivated people like Lenin and Stalin and all this.
00:12:01.500And I didn't have the psychological chops.
00:12:03.200I was aware of dark triad or tetrad terminology.
00:12:08.560I did know quite a bit about the cluster B personality disorders because I knew some people who were basically rabid feminists in the 2010s, and they were all talking about various schizoidal personality or – and that one may be cluster A.
00:12:40.220My reading, for example, of Derek Bell, one of the founders of critical race theory, is that he very likely suffered both paranoia and schizoidia, which are both mentioned by Lobachevsky as well as indicative.
00:12:55.200I can't say any about any of the cluster Bs.
00:12:57.260So, I think it's a little broader than just that one cluster appear.
00:13:02.640Conspiracy theories are paranoid thinking, for example.
00:13:07.420And schizoids tend to have imaginary conversations with people who aren't there on a, you know, childish, fictional level.
00:13:15.380You know, they're pretending the world is the way that it should have been for their emotions when they were nine years old.
00:13:20.280That's the split, the schiz and the schizoidal.
00:13:23.500And so, they write these elaborate stories about how the world's supposed to be, and then they have outbursts when the world doesn't match that.
00:13:28.640And Derek Bell was famous for writing these missives where he would present them as evidence of racism, say, at Harvard, where he had an imaginary conversation with a dean.
00:13:36.940And then would write the whole imaginary conversation down.
00:13:39.060And I'm thinking, this is so disordered.
00:13:41.820Not just disordered thinking, but this is psychologically disordered.
00:13:45.040That you would then present this hypothetical conversation as evidence.
00:13:51.480But at any rate, for a long time, I've thought that's there.
00:15:41.400Years ago, by the way, you said that one of the features, you got in trouble for this, and you were right, of course.
00:15:46.520But you said that one of the features of our moment was that there's male aggression and female aggression that express themselves differently.
00:15:53.540And male aggression, I don't know if you use this terminology, but I think it's something to this effect, doesn't upload very well.
00:17:27.220Right, which is another storehouse of value that's been severely parasitized.
00:17:30.980I wanted to share something special with you as we transition from Lent into the Easter season.
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00:19:03.420And that means they're predatory parasites.
00:19:05.720And then they had to top it all off with sadism.
00:19:09.100And I think that's what changed the dark triad to the dark tetrad.
00:19:12.600I think the reason for that is that if you have a dark triad orientation towards the world, and the world turns against you, it makes you so angry because you're rejected and unsuccessful that that expresses itself in positive delight in the unnecessary suffering of others.
00:22:19.120So the higher you are in a social hierarchy, the more positive emotion you feel and the less negative emotion and the less likely you are to perish.
00:22:30.680Partly because you have social capital and social support.
00:22:34.740So people will compete for status within the confines of any given hierarchical game.
00:22:41.640That's a whole different function than representation of the world.
00:22:44.400Now, maybe you'd hope that your game represents the world, too, which I suppose that would be something like competition in a scientific lab.
00:23:44.100He told me that what he realized, and of course, he's a mathematician as well, and I'm a mathematician.
00:23:50.320So he said, he told me this at ARC, actually, we were having a conversation, and he said, when I realized what you'd done is generalize the concept of woke and then applied it in a different domain, it clicked.
00:24:01.360So it's no longer, you know, just left-wing, you know, totalitarian behavior.
00:24:07.820It's now this mode of totalitarian behavior that I can apply in the domains.
00:24:13.380And so with the hierarchy, well, not just the hierarchy, everything you just described, but you have these reservoirs of value and hierarchies built off of these games.
00:24:48.080What you would do is try, there's a word for what you would try to create.
00:24:52.400As the parasite who's now latched on, the thing you would try to, there's different, if you want to talk about it in politics, there's one word,
00:24:57.720and if you want to talk about it in religion or more generally, there's another.
00:25:00.420The general word or the religious word is cult.
00:25:03.360You'll create a cult where you've taken a variation on those rules to where there's a new status game that's rigged so you're always on top of it.
00:25:12.320And what you're going to do is pervert the underlying rules.
00:25:15.500We call it an ideology or a cult doctrine.
00:25:18.440The word in politics would be splinter, a splinter movement within a broader movement.
00:25:24.440So MAGA is a political movement, and you can imagine a splinter off of it where the Democratic Party had a political movement,
00:25:30.240and the Justice Democrats came along 10 years ago and made a splinter off of it that created the squad.
00:25:34.800A lot of people know that history, at least, so it should be, you know, germane.
00:25:40.080So the generation of a localized cult is sort of this hypothesis, and the ideology grows out of the desire for the people at the top of that,
00:25:49.480who are parasitizing the hierarchy to create their kind of internal nested hierarchy where they're on top of the whole thing.
00:25:56.400And the way they do that is by saying the big system is gamed, the big system is rigged, the big system is fake,
00:26:03.640and we have a secret truth about how things really work.
00:26:06.680And now you enter into the Gnostic kind of, I don't know, even metaphysical space.
00:26:13.180You know, the ancient Gnostic religions, whether against Judaism or Christianity,
00:26:16.880all held out that Yahweh, the character, the creator god of Genesis, was in fact a demon who had tricked everything.
00:26:26.840He wasn't the actual highest unknowable god.
00:26:29.520He was this low-level, you know, functionary god who said, you know, I'm going to rule over all this stuff.
00:26:35.380I'm going to imprison them in this, you know, wonderful garden.
00:26:38.160And then, whoops, they disobeyed me and almost realized the game by eating from the forbidden tree.
00:26:43.740So, now we're going to throw them out into a real prison, and they've been, in the Heideggerian sense, they've been flung.
00:26:49.500Their being has been flung into a world they didn't choose in which they suffer.
00:26:54.000And you get the whole Gnostic architecture.
00:26:56.240But this, the way that Gnosticism attracts is by saying, and I can make this kind of literal to things that are happening in our world if we have to,
00:27:05.840is that the authorities in the existing game know so much, but they don't want you to know everything.
00:27:12.920They don't want you to know more because you might surpass them.
00:27:42.880But I'd like to talk about the current situation.
00:27:45.440Yeah, the situation and the ideas I think are important.
00:27:48.100Well, you know, Douglas's point with regard to Joe was that it's troublesome for those with a conservative bent to throw out, to throw away the idea of institutional legitimacy.
00:28:05.640And that's a fair comment, standalone comment.
00:28:12.340And Joe's rebuttal to that, insofar as he had a rebuttal, because I thought the conversation was actually pretty civil, given how difficult it was, was that the institutions have been so cataclysmically faulty in the last 10 years that the only possible antidote to their falseness is really unrestrained investigation.
00:28:40.620And Joe's been a master of unrestrained investigation, obviously, because he's allowed his interest to take him wherever it goes, which allied with a certain amount of conscience is a pretty good orienting function, as far as I'm concerned.
00:28:55.900And I'm at a loss, to some degree, how to reconcile those few points, because I think it is a cataclysm that the institutions have become unreliable.
00:29:11.000But let's walk through them a little bit.
00:29:25.820The president of Harvard, in my understanding, said to the Trump administration that it was unfair to punish the researchers by withholding their research funds.
00:29:37.160But I look at that, and I think those researchers have been filling out DEI statements for 10 years.
00:32:06.920So, and then it's, what it seems to happen is that the unrestrained psychopathy spills over into the public domain, and everyone is mad, like, in both senses.
00:32:21.520But let's return just for a moment to the hierarchy idea.
00:32:26.760So, you pointed out one interesting mechanism of attaining status, which is to twist the rules slightly, create a new game, and dominate that as its originator.
00:33:23.220So, for example, with Karl Marx, he phrased his vision of communism wasn't the crude communism that was experimented with by Gracchus Babouf in the French Revolution.
00:33:38.260But what he says, his exact wording for it is, is it's communism as the positive transcendence of private property, as human self-estrangement, and thus a complete return of man to his true nature as a human or social being.
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00:36:27.780And so how does this turn into what I said is that the game, which at that point he's looking at, it doesn't matter if it's capitalism or feudalism or even slavery.
00:36:36.000It's the private property game that he believes is the course of history.
00:36:40.080He says, well, everything is actually that thing's fault.
00:36:44.620And people who play that game are the people who are the problem.
00:37:11.760Chapter one, Communist Manifesto is titled Bourgeois and Proletarians, Bourgeoisie and Proletarians.
00:37:18.280So he describes the relationship between the people who are playing that game, the bourgeoisie, and then the proletarians who are the workers at the bottom who are making that game possible.
00:37:26.300And he says, all you guys down at the bottom are getting exploited.
00:37:29.760You're being alienated from who you really are.
00:38:18.440So it's a whole thing is a giant scam to blame the existing system, to agitate a large group of people who aren't winning within that system, to get them to switch games with him at the very peak.
00:38:28.980Okay, so to me, I know that we've talked a little bit about religious matters, but I'm going to delve into that for a second.
00:38:37.440Actually, before we go, put a bookmark.
00:38:50.480And back in history, he writes this fictional mythological history of the Germans.
00:38:54.000And some of it, if you read or see it, is just kind of humorously, transparently false about how great they were in antiquity and all of this.
00:39:00.600So we've got these Germans and they've got all this, you know, he's got this whole occult, theosophical, Aryan stuff that he's brought in from Helena Blavatsky and read the Secret Doctrine and all this weird occultism he's attached to race.
00:39:13.740And in Mein Kampf, second volume, chapter one, he talks about, well, the Nazis have a new world concept, Weltenschwang, and that world concept will be the racial world concept.
00:39:23.200Then he lays out how the state exists to preserve the race.
00:39:25.920That's the point, because when you have the race, you have the people who will generate high culture.
00:39:29.480And when you have the people who generate high culture, then you can advance society to its highest level of expression and man's highest level of expression.
00:39:52.220Everybody who's with me that wants Germany to be made great again after World War I and the ravages of the Treaty of Versailles, they saw it, and the challenges that came with the interwar period as we see it now.
00:40:05.040Now, all you Germans who are mad at Europe and mad at the French and you're having a bad time, guess what?
00:40:10.580There's a mythic Germany that you've lost and we can get it back.
00:40:17.160And here's how it's going to be organized, not with this, you know, vanguard Bolshevik model over there that the communists use, but we're going to use what I call the FĂĽhrer Principle.
00:40:25.560Not me, Hitler called the FĂĽhrer Principle.
00:41:48.480And so, what we're going to do now is we're going to grab our rightful inheritance and we're going to build the structure that returns us to it.
00:46:33.580Well, and so then we would have a dynamic where one—because we're trying to figure out how to identify the Luciferian players, let's say.
00:46:55.720You remember in the gospel account, when Christ is in the desert, the third temptation that Satan lays before him is the temptation of power.
00:48:04.760So the expression that I could give to Thai people just to bring woke right back to the conversation is we're familiar now with the machinations of woke left, right?
00:48:13.980And what I would say is, well, what's woke right is same energy, different direction.
00:48:19.600You have all of those same exact—whether it's Luciferian at the high level, whether it's struggle sessions, Machiavellianism, sadism at the low level.
00:49:25.640It's obsessed with we've been alienated all the way back to the beginning.
00:49:29.340For him, private property marks the fall.
00:49:31.540So the serpent came along and didn't offer an apple but offered the fundamental right to exclude to private property.
00:49:37.900But you have the same general concept.
00:49:40.020So they're obsessed with looking all the way back to the state of nature.
00:49:43.060Well, and that is also an unbelievably effective move on the psychopathic side because the basic criminal attitude is—and I've dealt with criminal types quite a lot.
00:50:14.200And that happened in the Soviet Union, right?
00:50:15.820Because in the prisons, the criminals were treated as moral agents, whereas the political prisoners were treated as, you know, what would you say?
00:50:24.740The kinds of heretics who deserve nothing but the longest possible sentence and death.
00:52:13.000And all he's doing is rehashing Rousseau, which had passed through Egel and Schiller.
00:52:17.020And what Rousseau had said is we need to be – because he wanted to live a free libertine lifestyle, not liberal but libertine, but he liked being a citizen, didn't he?
00:52:27.200And so he wanted savages made to live in cities.
00:52:30.120I mean in the French, however, but that's what he literally called them.
00:52:38.320Alpha of man is the primitive communist.
00:52:40.660The omega of man is when you reach the point where you have the same sharing attitude and liberated lifestyle as the beginning, but now you have all the high culture and benefits of all the production in between.
00:52:54.680So it's a perfectly paradoxical and impossible thing, but Marx calls it the riddle of history solved that knows itself to be its own solution.
00:53:05.100And so that's the alpha and the omega.
00:53:07.940So that libertine offering is an interesting twist.
00:53:10.660I've been trying to puzzle out – I wrote this article with Jonathan Paggio on the scarlet beast of the apocalypse, and it was really illuminating to me.
00:53:21.300There's lots of – the book of Revelation, I just don't understand, me and many other people.
00:53:28.420So the scarlet beast is the degenerate state.
00:53:31.840So imagine that when a uniting principle disappears, so that would be the Nietzschean death of God, you get the postmodern condition, which is that there's no uniting narrative.
00:53:41.560And so the state grows a lot of different heads.
00:57:11.460And transgression, I think, is such a key feature.
00:57:13.940In fact, I've described recently a cult of transgression that you could easily describe on the woke left, right?
00:57:20.100And it kind of fits my same energy, different direction, or same energy, opposite direction.
00:57:23.960Because you see with both of these two wokes, but also other, these kind of degenerate ideologies and psychosocial dynamics, you have this cult of transgression where the way, it's like the payment to be in the cult is to transgress a little further.
00:57:41.300You start with, oh, yeah, well, we need LGBT representation.
00:57:44.920Okay, well, you've already transgressed because the T is different from the LGB.
00:58:33.720This is a very strange thing about these fragmented identity claims is that they, like, an identity should unite and it should serve a psychological and a social purpose simultaneously.
00:59:58.160So, that's an important thing to note.
01:00:00.320But there's a deeper thing here, which is what—it's also what Mao did with his red identity, black identities, which were split themselves, is that the target is actually normal integrated society.
01:00:11.480And the excuse for the targeting is the opposite side pathology, right?
01:00:16.480And so, with Marcuse, to go back to the left, he writes this essay in 1965, Repressive Tolerance.
01:00:22.580He says, okay, there's three kinds of tolerance.
01:00:27.220That's what a normal, healthy society has, and it only can tolerate so much, it'll fall apart.
01:00:31.380And then there's the repressive, right-wing, maybe it's fascist, whatever.
01:00:35.640He actually uses the word fascist repeatedly.
01:00:37.820And then what he says is, actually, those two things are the same thing because of different stupid excuses, nuclear weapons or whatever else.
01:00:44.360So, actually, we live in the repressive state now.
01:00:59.500And his own definition, which is, you know, close to, from memory, a quote, it is, we will extend, liberating tolerance, he says, would mean we extend tolerance to movements from the left and we withdraw tolerance from movements from the right, which is everything to his right.
01:01:33.220Left protest, there's no holds barred.
01:01:36.620No matter how pathological it becomes, the left-wing protesters are always the heroic victims.
01:01:42.860The trucker convoy was a great example of that, right?
01:01:45.400Because, you know, it was a disruptive demonstration, although remarkably peaceful, and the legal repercussions are still unrolling.
01:01:54.620And I think maybe it's—tell me what you think about this—I think it's because it might be partly the spread of the ideas of Marcuse through the culture.
01:02:18.100Well, is it also an indication that something very fundamental has gone sideways?
01:02:22.420Because conservatives aren't the protesting type.
01:02:24.680No, but I think that the trucker protest tells us something different, because the target—these people, this is one of the most genuinely peaceful, pro-liberty—it was the freedom convoy, and they meant it.
01:02:38.600And they policed their own borders, and they kept the radicals out on the right.
01:02:42.500So what happened was they showed up, the left showed up to protest the normal people.
01:02:48.220I'm not going to say the middle, the normal people, everyday freedom-loving Canadians, and the excuse was there's a far right.
01:03:12.300Not so they can fight the conservatives, so they can fight the liberals.
01:03:15.660And that's happening on the other side.
01:03:17.760Conservatives will look over and say, well, there's the far left, and all the classical liberals are actually in their camp, and they've flattened them.
01:03:25.040And again, so this is, again, an emphasis of this woke—an exhibition of this woke right phenomenon of same energy, different direction, opposite directions in this case.
01:03:36.180And the idea is that they are attacking the middle through the proxy of the far opposite side.
01:03:41.740So I brought up Marcuse because he's also famous for eros and civilization and the sexual liberation, and we were talking about the pride and the queer theory.
01:03:49.600Well, those left-wing movements in the 60s all floated on a cloud of free love.
01:04:20.940But what they were targeting were liberal societal norms, real societal norms, healthy, let's forget liberal, healthy, not degenerate societal norms about sex and sexuality.
01:04:34.020Well, degenerate's the right word, too, I think, because I think one of the hallmarks, because if you are a relativist, you might say, well, who are you to place modes of orienting yourself in the world in a hierarchy?
01:04:56.820So they're games that violate their own principles as they play themselves out.
01:05:02.780But there's nothing about a guy in fetish gear at a parade in front of children, for example, that's challenging the norms of a repressive sexual society that thinks that it should be procreative, heterosexual sex only.
01:05:19.760What they're after is the norms that hold regular society together.
01:05:23.060And my argument is that the woke right does the same thing.
01:05:25.460They have a cult of transgression, too.
01:05:27.300They sometimes call it being based, but that's a completely bad word for what they're trying to describe because based should mean based in reality, although the origin of the term is slang for being free-based on cocaine.
01:05:48.960And, of course, they completely made degenerate the concept of racism, the word racism, the accusation, the sky is racist, going for a hike is racist.
01:05:57.320But they aren't trying to reclaim and say, okay, no, wait, racism is bad.
01:06:01.980We don't want to be racist, and nobody should be racist, and the left completely ruined it, so we need to reclaim the term and have this healthy societal norm about discrimination and bigotry.
01:06:12.680What they're doing instead is saying it's time for us to be a little bit racist.
01:06:15.660The left said don't be racist, so we're going to be really racist.
01:06:17.920And we're going to do it in order to make, you know, to own the libs, as they sometimes phrase the thing, right?
01:06:25.100But really, it's to reject woke culture as the pretext.
01:06:28.000They're not acting racist or blaming Jews for everything going wrong in society or, you know, getting further and further into the racial expression or the white racial consciousness or whatever, the white supremacy or even white nationalism in order to challenge the left.
01:06:42.340No, they're doing it to challenge, again, the center, the healthy core of society and its norms.
01:07:18.240It all goes to hell, and so then the right wakes up, wakes up, woke, and says, actually, I think the oppression is what was holding us together, so we should do more of it.
01:07:28.480And they create a hierarchy in society that's very rigid, again, with that FĂĽhrer principle from the fascists.
01:07:33.600Because Mussolini had his lighter version of it.
01:07:35.880Hitler concretized it for Nazi Germany in 33 following Carl Schmitt's book, The Legal Basis for the Total State.
01:07:43.020They created the legal structure for this thing.
01:07:47.140But the idea was that there is a hierarchy that kept society on the rails.
01:07:51.260And we're going to go back to that hierarchy in extreme pastiche form.
01:07:56.340And there's a reward structure socially for the people in the club to push the envelope and attack those normal, everyday societal norms in the center.
01:08:06.000So, again, same energy, opposite direction.
01:08:07.880But the point is the transgression, which they call queering on the left.
01:08:12.060We don't have a word for it on the right.
01:08:14.000They call it being-based, but that's not the same as transgress.
01:09:22.860Same idea, like Mark said, you go all the way back to the state of nature.
01:09:26.460You're going to combine it with the N, so you're going to become the alpha man who's also the omega man.
01:09:31.560In other words, the alpha and the omega of humanity.
01:09:33.480So there's you become god man, homo deus, as Harari named it in his book, homo deus.
01:09:40.740And then on the right, they don't go that far back.
01:09:43.880They don't go back to the state of nature.
01:09:46.100They're not interested in the state of nature.
01:09:47.200They're interested in the mythic past from which they've been dispossessed that never existed, a romantic vision of who they were at some golden era in the past that they've been ejected from.
01:09:59.080But they're still now the alienated outsider.
01:10:01.800They're still – the alien force came in, dispossessed them from who they are, and now they're going to claim it back.
01:10:07.260And the way they're going to do it is by organizing a fascist structure as an answer to the degeneracy, a very rigid structure and a too rigid structure in answer to the not rigid enough structure of communism.
01:10:21.740And then what they do is the exact same transgression against the center to build their own power out in their local little cult against the big game of society.
01:10:34.040They're attacking the game of society to build their numbers with the hope of being able to replace it in both cases.
01:10:39.840So this is why I call these people woke.
01:10:42.400It's not just that they've gone on cancel rampages and struggle sessions.
01:10:46.140It's not that they've put me through a relentless struggle session since September without stopping or doxed my family and everything else in their wrath.
01:10:54.740They said – I said – James calls them all woke right, and they decide to prove me wrong by canceling me and struggling me and doxing my family.
01:11:04.040And acting exactly like we all went through in 2015 when you stood up about the pronouns.
01:11:09.300And so – and that's the thing, Jordan.
01:11:35.520And then Peter and Helen and I did the grievance studies papers, and we were right.
01:11:40.440So we were right, and I see the same structures, the same patterns, the same behaviors, the same reactions, the same explanations with slight modifications.
01:11:50.120That's the difference between communism and fascism as modern archetypes.
01:11:55.120And what I see when I – you know, you can think of those as modern era mythologies for how society is supposed to be organized.
01:12:12.960And that hijacking of belief is this – just to take it all the way back to the Gnostic thing, that's what the Gnostic cults did before Irenaeus put them down.
01:12:22.920And then, you know, Augustine comes along and mentions them all and says there had been 84 heresies or whatever up to this point by the 4th century.
01:12:48.120It's us and everybody else against us.
01:12:51.200And the idea is that the evil is embodied in the world and the good have to slowly work to consume the evil and turn it to good.
01:13:00.600And eventually, you end up with all good.
01:13:02.680But this Manichaean battle between good and evil is what Marx codifies on the first page of the Communist Manifesto when he says that in a word what he's talking about, the entirety of the story of history is oppressor versus oppressed.
01:13:16.380It's a fundamental dualistic metaphysics.
01:13:20.340There's no unity of society with a kind of melange of different people in different places working, playing different roles, sliding up and down the ladder.
01:13:30.520You might move within each of those, but there's a fundamental dualistic structure, and they are in conflict.
01:13:36.900That's the first line of the Communist Manifesto after the famous preface.
01:13:41.580The first chapter, the history of man is the history of the conflict of contending classes, oppressor and oppressed.
01:13:50.380And he says that what it's going to result in is the revolution of society or the common ruin of the contending classes.
01:13:59.280So either the bottom is going to come up on top and take over, the splinter group is going to replace society itself, or they're going to ruin everything.
01:14:08.280They'll destroy everything that they can't have.
01:14:10.160And then we're looking at, you know, beastly behavior, and I don't mean animals.
01:14:15.320So do we, maybe we could lay out some of the behavioral markers so that, because we might as well make this concrete.
01:14:23.580I can tell you what I've observed about the behavior of psychopathic parasites online.
01:15:14.680You stay away from things you're afraid of.
01:15:16.720It says in Mein Kampf that one of the, early in the book, in the second chapter, that one of the best moments, he doesn't say it's the best moment of my life, but he realizes, and it's clear that he's very happy about it, was the moment when he realized that the Jew is not a German, and the German is not a Jew.
01:15:48.000I do it for the lulls, and that's a hallmark of sadism.
01:15:51.100Now, those people, people who do those things, so those are four or five things, anonymity, pathological, nom de plume, derisive language, and then the use of these contemptuous and cool acronyms.
01:16:08.940Belittling, they use the word dude, that's a real good marker.
01:17:43.100He's utterly clear about the point of his state is to preserve the race and the biggest pollution of the race, to preserve it against pollution of inferior races.
01:17:51.520And the most inferior race is the Jews.
01:17:55.500The demonization is absolutely visible in 25 when he publishes that way before they say, well, it took until 38, 39, maybe 42 when Churchill got involved.
01:18:05.740That's when they had to really start hating the Jews.
01:18:08.440And it known, and that current is all the way back to the beginning.
01:19:44.000And there's all these people throwing rocks.
01:19:45.660And it says, on the meme, it says, James, when his haters throw rocks at him, and I'm building a castle out of all the stones they throw at me.
01:19:52.980And so, no, not so much, except they can catch you off guard.
01:19:58.520And what catches you off guard the most, and this is the power of the struggle session, what will catch you off guard the most is when one of your friends buys it.
01:20:07.240They see it, and they go with the people that are haranguing you.
01:21:34.560I mean, how many people can you get your pamphlet to, and what sort of effect is that going to have?
01:21:40.460That was back in the time of writing, but now your pathology can multiply virtually without end.
01:21:47.120And then I'm thinking, well, maybe it's necessary.
01:21:51.200I thought for Twitter, for example, that there should be two sections.
01:21:55.240There should be a section where people's identification is validated and a section for the anonymous trolls, and that should be demarcated.
01:22:06.280So, you can go visit hell land of trolls if you want, but you know that they're not real people.
01:22:12.460Now, the problem with that, as far as I can tell, is the digital ID problem.
01:22:18.380I mean, the net allows people to escape the reputational consequences of their psychopathology, their destructive, sadistic, corrosive, power-mad, hedonistic psychopathology.
01:22:33.740It's a terrible thing, and people have no idea how dangerous it is.
01:22:38.500But if you verify IDs electronically, then we walk down the route to Chinese totalitarianism, something like that, as far as I can.
01:22:50.980And if you read the original documentation, Stanford University has its DigiChina project and translates Chinese documents.
01:22:57.000In 2014, they're putting forth a social credit system, and they actually explain that the purpose of the social credit system is to achieve a perfect socialism, because it's not just a social control mechanism.
01:23:12.340Yeah, it's like your life becomes a video game nudging you to hold the beliefs that the state wants you to have.
01:23:19.780Well, the guy who just got, the man who just got elected prime minister in Canada, he says two quite stunning things in his book, which no Canadians read, because we'll leave that lie.
01:23:33.540That's why 75% of the world's fossil fuels have to stay in the ground, okay, that's proposition number one, and he's made that a centerpiece of his thinking for 20 years.
01:23:44.240There's no priority guiding every financial decision by every individual and every corporation that should be prioritized higher than decarbonization.
01:23:59.140That means every single thing, and then he says, of course, there'll be losers in consequence of that, but it's a price we're willing to pay, we have to pay, the sacrifice of others.
01:24:10.080So this is a man who thinks that net zero is the proper game, and that if you were a moral actor, decarbonization would be your god, right?
01:24:22.040Regulate every single one of your decisions.
01:24:24.500Well, out of that comes the kind of pathocracy that you described.
01:24:28.840It's like, you've seen this already, there's edges appearing, there's credit cards, they were issued in Australia that track your carbon footprint, right?
01:24:37.840And at the moment, you're still allowed to spend on whatever you want, regardless of your, at the moment, that's exactly right.
01:24:45.700And once you're fully trackable, well, then we know what'll happen, you know exactly what'll happen.
01:24:52.000You'll be nudged in whatever direction benefits the power mad Luciferians, that's exactly what'll happen.
01:24:58.660It's not just social control, it is social training.
01:25:07.680It's operant conditioning in its most sophisticated form, especially when equipped with the technologies of AI.
01:25:14.300That's for sure, because the AI systems trained on your purchasing behavior, for example, will be able to predict your likely behavior with a stellar degree of accuracy.
01:25:28.580So, the only solution I can think of to this is to, because the digital ID solution seems to be troublesome, to say the least, means no privacy whatsoever, forever, fundamentally.
01:25:46.960So, I guess it's exposing this and hoping that people make wise decisions, you know, and I guess that's what you're trying to do with the woke right idea.
01:25:57.220Yeah, there are workable activities that could step into play.
01:26:03.520For example, you know, a lot of times you'll hear, especially libertarians, talk about the revision to the Smith-Munt Act in 2012, and now our intelligence communities.
01:26:12.780We know that our social media is awash with propaganda.
01:26:16.940Well, there are legal constraints that you can put at least on your own government to prevent that.
01:26:20.600You can take – if you want to have a task force for doing something in terms of, say, national cybersecurity, keeping Russian and Iranian and Qataris and Chinese bots and bad actors, Pakistani, these are where a lot of these bot networks are coming from.
01:26:39.000Keeping those influence campaigns, foreign influence campaigns out with a dedicated cybersecurity project is going to clean up a lot of it.
01:26:46.940You think the administrators can stay ahead of the bots?
01:26:53.300No, that's – I mean, that's another problem, right, is that the system transforms itself so rapidly that it's very difficult to regulate it.
01:27:00.140What I'm thinking is, you know, Trump created a space force because of maybe space war or whatever it's supposed to do, and I'm not quite sure.
01:27:06.420But this – like, there's – I don't want to make it a branch of the military, but I'm using it as an analogy.
01:27:13.840Maybe it should be a branch of the military.
01:27:15.400Yeah, a cybersecurity or cyber warfare division, an entire branch that is dedicated to that because this is a serious problem for – and again, the bigger the country, the more power it wields, the more likely it is to be attacked.
01:27:33.620Not to be rude to people from Botswana, but there's just not that much incentive to go mess around with their internet.
01:27:41.100There's a ton of incentive to mess with MAGA, which is informing Trump.
01:27:45.040Well, we've already tracked, too, some of the groups that I'm working with.
01:27:50.040Women 18 to 34 have political opinions that are way off-center compared to everyone else, plus they're dreadfully miserable.
01:28:05.760And the algorithms are designed to produce exactly the kind of upsetting pathology that characterizes female voters between the ages of 18 to 34.
01:28:18.360Well, I mean, this is why woke is so female-coded.
01:28:20.620Everybody kind of wonders, what in the world is critical race theory?
01:28:47.620And there's a lot of things you could say about the snitch culture and all of this, but it's not like what we have now.
01:28:54.880But the reason is because the ideology passed in order to become viable in our society, to find the receptor sites.
01:29:01.300The receptor sites for Marxism in the West were overwhelmingly young white women, and it had to pass through feminism to be able to get the parasite to attach as a mind virus in order to get there because that's what it was designed to do.
01:29:14.160On the other hand, therefore, you have young men who've been ravaged.
01:29:19.300You – I literally – Dave Rubin and I were talking the other day, and he said that you, as an individual, have done more than – and I believe him – more than any individual on the planet Earth to help young men who've had a hard time through all of this nonsense for the last 20 to 30 years.
01:29:36.320They need a voice in the wilderness to reach and help and guide them and get them to clean their room and all of the stuff.
01:29:41.860And to identify the parasitic predators and keep them at bay.
01:29:45.880So what we have now is we had a vulnerability complex that attached to young girls.
01:29:50.860Now we have another one that's rising in answer that's attaching to young men.
01:29:54.620So the tragedy for me – and I'm watching this, and I get – you know, I talk – I'm integrated with the moms networks of the grassroots moms all over the country, right?
01:30:03.180And, of course, these demons have come up with all kinds of salacious rumors to spread with regard to that to discredit me and to remove me from their activity, which are all nonsense.
01:30:11.180But at any rate, what I'm watching is all these moms – I'm hearing from these moms already – who are telling me – they aren't using this phrasing.
01:30:22.280By the grace of God, their daughters didn't get pulled into the trans-destruction mania, and now they're having to watch their sons get lured into Nazism.
01:30:32.660And that's why I'm so worked up about this woke right cult of transgression.
01:30:42.300Maybe you're a 35-year-old who hasn't grown up and got out of his parents' basement.
01:30:45.680And you think it's funny to post a mustache man meme or two here and there to rile up the libs and the normal people and the left and everybody else.
01:30:52.780Plus, you're irritated that your identity has been targeted for 30 years.
01:31:25.340One of the things people can watch for everybody who's watching and listening is beware of anything that's motivated by resentment.
01:31:32.660You know, the mere fact that you have had difficulties that are somewhat arbitrary, first of all, doesn't distinguish you from the main run of the human race.
01:31:42.140But if the motivation stems out of resentment, the probability that something horrible has got a hold of your soul is extremely high.
01:31:49.300So, I go back to the first thing I said, right?
01:32:19.260He invites the spirit of resentment in to occupy his soul and becomes not only murderous, but the progenitor of genocide and the precursor to the flood, right?
01:32:35.840And the media—it's so interesting, James, because—so, Cain's sacrifices are rejected, and it's a little ambiguous as to why.
01:32:53.380There's lots of things you could do about failing.
01:32:55.700If you did well, you would be accepted, right?
01:32:59.380What you've done is you have allowed something terribly tempting that crouched on your doorstep to enter your house and have its way with you, and that's why you're bitter, resentful, and murderous.
01:33:11.860It has nothing to do with your failure.
01:33:14.460It's this additional variable, which is—because the thing is, everyone, in a sense—this is true of heroes in mythology—everyone starts out lowly.
01:33:29.520And there's angles of your identity that you can construe as oppressor, oppressed narrative with no problem.
01:33:37.440If you decide that you've been treated unfairly and now you have a right to resentment and revenge, then, well, then you're the monster that breeds genocide.
01:35:07.940You know, but a lot of these fellas that are pushing the woke right stuff appeared in the anger and in the repression, is the word, of 2020, more 2021.
01:35:19.360They don't have a body of work extending before that.
01:35:22.040They just kind of came out of the ground.
01:35:27.120There were people making great commentary about liberty regarding the COVID policies.
01:35:31.580There were people making great commentary about the obviously critical race theory, cultural revolution running amok, and the queer theory later.
01:35:39.860So, I'm very grateful to everybody who came along.
01:35:42.580But these people that have a longer perspective and a deeper body of work, it's hard because—
01:35:47.680Well, that's a crucial—so that touches on Douglas' point, too, is that to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
01:36:53.800Also, they know good and damn well that there are certain transgressions you can't come home from.
01:37:00.060You go too far down that road, there's no way back.
01:37:03.060And not because your new friends are going to call you names like a sellout or a cuck or dual loyalties or whatever.
01:37:08.820There are certain lines you go down and you don't get to come back.
01:37:12.340And they know that, so they get to trap people there.
01:37:14.600But this, I believe, and we will probably or possibly disagree on this, I think that there are particular malevolent actors that are pushing this who have grander designs than getting clicks, getting an audience, satisfying their own narcissistic urges, transgressing boundaries.
01:37:32.520I think that there are – and it makes total sense if I were to say China is supporting all of it.
01:37:37.280And if I had evidence, you would believe –
01:37:49.240We can tell by the way that they've organized the Trump derangement program that's just screwed Canada royally but has deranged Americans.
01:37:58.920I have family members I can barely relate with still because of Trump derangement.
01:38:03.400I was obviously cast out in disgrace from the last vestiges of the left when I said I was going to vote for Trump and said publicly on a podcast, Make America Great Again.
01:38:13.460They lost their minds and said I went crazy.
01:38:18.280There is a lot of reasons besides just the fact that he's the sitting president of the United States of America.
01:38:23.380He's doing a lot of things to this global order that are disruptive and in a good way in all likelihood.
01:38:30.780There's a lot of motivation to take this man down.
01:38:33.320And if you can fragment his base by getting them to argue about Israel good, Israel bad, that's a deep cut that you've just taken cloven MAGA in half.
01:38:43.700So all it takes is one event, something that goes down in Israel, and Trump takes a side, takes the Israeli side, and bang, they can pull the thing apart.
01:38:56.280It's also a wedge to hammer deeper and deeper and deeper into MAGA.
01:39:00.500The people who like Israel and the people who don't, or the conservative movement, or America itself, which therefore implicates the left side doing the same exact thing at the same exact time, using the horrible events of October 7th as their pretext.
01:39:16.220Well, we'll continue this on the Daily Wire side, and that way we can attract the maximum number of commentators who say that the reason we saved the discussion of anti-Semitism for the Daily Wire section is because I'm under the thumb of Ben Shapiro and the Zionists.
01:39:42.400All right. Good talking to you, sir. Thanks very much for coming in today.
01:39:47.080Thank you to all of you who are watching and listening and to the film crew here in Scottsdale for making this completely preposterous conversation possible and helping us broadcast the word to be awake and be careful who you're listening to and why you're listening and what spirit possesses you while you're listening.
01:40:08.100And beware of resentment, boys and girls, that everyone in hell is resentful. So good to talk to you, sir.