The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 548. Jordan Peterson Takes Your Call： Advice, Mental Health, Family Dynamics ｜ Mikhaila Fuller

00:00:00.000 This is Dr. Jordan Bean Peterson.

00:00:02.240 Watch Parenting, my new Daily Wire Plus series, May 25th.

00:00:06.260 We're dealing with misbehaviors with our son.

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00:00:15.180 It's very distressing to see people whose families are fragmented because it just curdles your soul.

00:00:22.260 How far should I go for someone who I care about but who refuses to get professional help?

00:00:26.780 How do I know if I'm a hazard building with something important?

00:00:29.600 There is a substantial age gap.

00:00:31.100 It seems to me unwise to reproduce things being this uncertain.

00:00:34.620 Well, what are you doing when you're talking to someone?

00:00:37.120 You're thinking, why would you think?

00:00:39.580 To specify a problem and to solve it.

00:00:42.920 You know, it sounds to me like you're setting yourself up as someone who could be maybe an excellent husband and father.

00:00:50.100 You know, you've evaluated your life and you've come to some new conclusions and you've developed some new daring and you're becoming more educated.

00:00:56.320 It's like, share that with someone.

00:00:58.260 Do you like my Jordan Peterson bust?

00:01:00.980 I really don't know what to think of it.

00:01:03.040 It'd be weird if you owned it.

00:01:04.560 I think it's weird also that you own it.

00:01:06.360 Okay, let's get this show on the road.

00:01:23.840 We thought it might be a fun idea or an interesting idea to take questions from your audience and have you do what you do best and try to help some people if they need help.

00:01:38.580 And maybe the questions will be applicable to a lot of people.

00:01:41.120 So I think it should be fun.

00:01:42.640 We're going to give this a shot.

00:01:43.580 I hope you guys enjoy it.

00:01:45.180 I'm Mikayla, by the way, if people don't know who I am.

00:01:48.300 That would be she's my daughter.

00:01:50.800 Oh, yeah.

00:01:51.300 And a perfectly fine person in her own right as well.

00:01:54.460 Well, thank you.

00:01:55.200 I think that was a compliment.

00:01:56.340 So I'll take it.

00:01:58.100 Are we ready?

00:01:58.800 Number one.

00:01:59.500 Should we just jump into it?

00:02:00.400 Let's go.

00:02:00.860 What is your opinion or feedback about what you've seen about relationships being successful if there is a substantial age gap of, let's say, 10, 15 years?

00:02:18.920 What has been your understanding as to the overall satisfaction of those relationships and the ability for them to be able to be long-lasting and satisfying when compared to relationships with, you know, less than a 10-year age gap or so?

00:02:37.360 First of all, that's generally a situation with a younger woman and an older man.

00:02:42.360 I'm not going to comment on the reverse situation because it's very rare.

00:02:47.120 Women live longer. 1.00

00:02:48.000 It technically makes a little bit more sense.

00:02:51.240 That's coming from me.

00:02:52.960 It violates the social norm again.

00:02:55.640 Like women cross-culturally prefer men who are about four years older. 0.73

00:03:00.020 And there's a variety of reasons for that.

00:03:04.040 The major reason is that a wise woman isn't looking for another child. 1.00

00:03:12.340 She's looking for someone who she can rely on to be productive, generous, loving when she's incapacitated or more incapacitated in pregnancy and with young children.

00:03:28.840 And so, women even the scorecard by looking for men who are mature and no wonder. 0.90

00:03:39.040 And young men have to understand that.

00:03:41.180 A 17-year-old male is not a very marketable creature.

00:03:44.620 Now, there are exceptions to that.

00:03:48.480 You know, spectacularly attractive people who are outstanding in some manner can leapfrog the game.

00:03:56.640 But basically, men gain advantage as they age.

00:04:00.660 There are women who I've met who are looking for someone who's quite substantially more mature.

00:04:13.140 And there are advantages to that, I think, for a woman. 0.81

00:04:15.640 Because as men establish themselves, they know more, they have broader social connections, they're more competent, and they have more resources.

00:04:28.400 And the other thing, you know, is by the time you're 25, you're about as old as everyone else until they're like 70.

00:04:40.340 You know, you hit that period of maturity where roughly people are the same age.

00:04:50.980 And so, if you're attracted and you're both willing, then I don't see that as a problem that's any more insurmountable than personality differences or the other idiosyncrasies that couples have to contend with.

00:05:10.340 Do you think it's weird?

00:05:12.660 So, I think the difference between, say, 30-year-old woman or 25-year-old woman and 40 or 45-year-old man, that makes more, or if you go up, that kind of makes sense.

00:05:24.720 Do you think it's weird when we see, like, 35-year-old men who refuse to date anybody who's above the age of 22?

00:05:32.260 I don't know if there are experiments of this sort, but they'd be easy enough to run.

00:05:38.840 If you're after a one-night stand, then why not have a 22-year-old?

00:05:45.620 No, that totally understands.

00:05:46.580 Well, no, but that's it.

00:05:47.520 That's the whole story.

00:05:48.740 But if it's a relationship...

00:05:50.160 Well, then the problems that you just described leap forward madly for anyone who has any sense.

00:05:58.980 I would be concerned that I was being taken advantage of just from being a 21-year-old.

00:06:04.880 Oh, highly likely.

00:06:05.580 If I meet other 35-year-old guys, I'm like, if you only date young 20s, is it because anybody who's 30 would see through you?

00:06:15.040 Oh, sure.

00:06:16.140 Yeah.

00:06:17.080 Yeah, definitely.

00:06:17.860 But once you get above, like, 25, I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

00:06:21.720 Yeah, well, the predatory tilt...

00:06:23.760 Look, Mick, we know the personality characteristics of men who tilt towards one-night stands.

00:06:36.480 That's already been delineated.

00:06:39.440 They tilt in the dark tetrad direction.

00:06:42.980 And so, the 35-year-old men who won't date anyone who's over 23, they're not dating. 0.59

00:06:52.740 They're looking for sex with no strings attached. 1.00

00:06:58.420 And, you know, if there was such a thing as sex with no strings attached, then, hey, have at her. 1.00

00:07:05.460 But the problem is, is that that never happens.

00:07:12.820 I think the argument that they use is, oh, those are women's most fertile years.

00:07:16.840 But you don't see the people doing that, getting married and having babies.

00:07:19.700 They're actually more into polyamory, if anything.

00:07:23.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:25.260 Well, there is a relationship between youth and casual sexual attractiveness.

00:07:35.600 The same way there is between maybe overuse of makeup and casual sexual attractiveness.

00:07:43.280 Like, if you're shallow, I'm not exactly saying that attraction to youth and beauty is shallow.

00:07:51.120 But, you know, there are 15, 16-year-old models.

00:07:57.260 They're not uncommon at all.

00:07:58.660 They're usually quite made up. 0.74

00:08:00.520 And that makeup gives them a sexual patina. 1.00

00:08:03.460 And it's very easy, if you're male, to be attracted sexually by surface.

00:08:13.960 It's a sign of lack of maturity and wisdom.

00:08:16.940 And I'm not trying to make a case against beauty.

00:08:20.060 But there are plenty of beautiful women who are 30. 1.00

00:08:29.140 There are plenty of beautiful women who are 50. 1.00

00:08:31.900 It gets harder as you get older to maintain that.

00:08:34.700 Your mother has done that extraordinarily well.

00:08:39.900 They're not seeing the whole person.

00:08:42.560 Yeah. 0.60

00:08:43.480 And that's convenient if what you want to do is have responsibility-free sex. 0.81

00:08:49.440 But there's no such thing as responsibility-free sex. 0.97

00:08:52.140 That's a complete lie. 0.86

00:08:53.800 And so then it's immature. 0.96

00:08:55.200 And so those men are immature.

00:08:56.520 It's as simple as that. 0.98

00:08:57.680 They're immature.

00:08:59.700 And they're not having a relationship.

00:09:02.560 They're not tying themselves together with someone for the long run.

00:09:08.540 And that cripples them. 0.96

00:09:10.380 Because life is very hard.

00:09:12.300 It's not something you should undertake alone.

00:09:16.220 You will become...

00:09:18.220 That's for sure.

00:09:19.780 You can't be staying alone.

00:09:22.660 I think with regards to the age difference, maybe the one thing you want to ask if you're

00:09:27.660 a young woman with an older man is, you know, are you looking for a father?

00:09:33.820 But then, if you didn't have a father and you're a very young woman, like, maybe you need that 1.00

00:09:42.760 more mature guidance.

00:09:44.480 Maybe that's valuable to you.

00:09:45.880 Why wouldn't it be?

00:09:47.860 I think as long as you avoid the psychopathic types that are just after naivety, then you're

00:09:56.680 all kind of the same age after a certain point anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.

00:10:00.640 And maybe there are some benefits even, depending on the person.

00:10:04.480 That's a perfectly reasonable summation.

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00:11:07.280 Dear Dr. Peterson,

00:11:09.080 Largely thanks to discovering your lectures as I was going through a very rough patch in 2017,

00:11:14.780 I am now a former truck driver turned part-time security guard and full-time law student.

00:11:19.300 You helped me rediscover meaning, culture, and rekindled the flame that drove me, and

00:11:24.400 I am forever grateful to you.

00:11:26.360 I am, however, less and less optimistic about the future of Western civilization, as it seems

00:11:31.660 that a lot of what gave it meaning is evaporating in front of our eyes, particularly with wokeness

00:11:36.460 working ever so hard to divide us all.

00:11:38.600 It seems to me unwise to reproduce things being this uncertain.

00:11:41.820 Do you have any words to rekindle my faith that we are still, in fact, able to create a world

00:11:47.020 that is suitable for children to inherit?

00:11:50.520 Your story implies that you made less of yourself for some substantial amount of time

00:11:58.220 because of doubt, and that you've shed that, and that that's improved your life substantially,

00:12:07.260 enough so that you expressed gratitude for that.

00:12:11.860 My first pass take on what you said is that the same problem is plaguing you in relationship

00:12:19.700 to children.

00:12:21.900 It's always, there isn't a more uncertain thing you can do than to have children.

00:12:28.900 And so, it's always been the case throughout human history that you are bringing children

00:12:39.080 into an uncertain world.

00:12:42.260 You're coping with the uncertainty in life by picking a challenging and responsibility-laden

00:12:54.320 pathway forward in your private life.

00:12:56.780 I would say the same with regards to marriage.

00:13:04.400 Find someone and take the risk, and then the same with children, and figure it out as you

00:13:11.840 move forward.

00:13:13.660 I think that there's a diverse enough range of opportunity and risk in the future so that

00:13:22.760 a generic notion like things are too unstable is not the right level of resolution to address

00:13:34.900 the issue.

00:13:35.980 The question is, would you take on the responsibility and the adventure of producing a micro-environment

00:13:45.380 within your own family that enables you to marry and to have children and to produce something

00:13:52.520 for the future in a way that best enables your children to move forward with security and

00:14:00.680 daring into the future?

00:14:02.460 And you already know you can do this in principle because you've already taken radical steps in

00:14:09.340 the last few years to put your life on a new course.

00:14:12.800 Because you could say the same thing about the judiciary becoming corrupt and law schools

00:14:17.820 becoming woke and everything shaking to its foundations.

00:14:21.280 And you could use that as a justification for your refusal to move forward in faith and with

00:14:30.360 courage.

00:14:31.060 But you're not.

00:14:32.520 And you said yourself that things are way better because of your new attitude.

00:14:37.620 Well, so continue with the risk.

00:14:40.940 You know, it sounds to me like you're setting yourself up as someone who could be maybe an

00:14:47.520 excellent husband and father and, you know, you've evaluated your life and you've come

00:14:54.920 to some new conclusions and you've developed some new daring and you're becoming more educated.

00:14:58.760 It's like, share that with someone and pass on the benefits to your children who will love

00:15:05.180 you, which is a, there's no better deal than that, by the way, too, you know.

00:15:08.460 You know, there's no better deal than a family and people who love you.

00:15:19.400 And that's worth a risk and it's worth a risk for them.

00:15:22.360 And there's no better pathway forward than to maintain your faith in yourself and in the

00:15:29.480 spirit of life itself.

00:15:31.060 And if you lose that or let it waver, then it makes even catastrophe worse.

00:15:36.940 So, consider it a moral obligation to have faith in, be fruitful and multiply.

00:15:48.100 It's a pro-existence stance.

00:15:52.000 And if you're opposed to your own existence, then who can save you?

00:15:58.400 You can also create this, like you were talking about, this little microcosm in your home for

00:16:04.500 your kids to grow up in, and then you can help them become extremely competent.

00:16:09.640 Like, this guy sounds competent.

00:16:10.960 He's in law school.

00:16:12.220 He's like, he's obviously gone through a number of jobs and become more and more successful

00:16:15.700 and gotten over some personal stuff.

00:16:18.460 Like, so he seems competent.

00:16:19.900 But if you raise your kids right and you build confidence in themselves, then they can go out

00:16:26.080 into this chaotic world.

00:16:28.160 And find opportunity.

00:16:29.360 And find opportunity too.

00:16:31.400 Yeah.

00:16:32.020 Yeah, well, and there's not that much difference between a problem and an opportunity.

00:16:38.420 Like, a world full of problems is, well, you could solve those problems.

00:16:42.740 And if there's a problem and you solve it, then you have an opportunity.

00:16:46.080 And so, a world where everything was taken care of would actually be a world without opportunity.

00:16:56.220 So, don't underestimate the utility of your children's competence and your role in encouraging

00:17:03.900 that development.

00:17:06.020 I like that.

00:17:07.000 And good luck.

00:17:08.060 And congratulations also.

00:17:10.660 Seriously.

00:17:11.380 I want to tell you all why my team and I founded Peterson Academy.

00:17:16.660 First, it's because the technology is there.

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00:17:34.740 Students who complete a four-year degree risk crippling themselves with debt just when they're

00:17:39.720 starting their lives and their careers.

00:17:41.500 Third reason, because of ideological and institutional corruption.

00:17:46.500 I watched that process painfully unfold for 40 years at McGill, at Harvard, at the University

00:17:53.680 of Toronto.

00:17:54.560 What's the alternative at Peterson Academy?

00:17:56.840 Well, we have 40 stellar professors on board.

00:17:59.760 We have 34 eight-hour courses taught at the highest level of quality with maximum efficiency.

00:18:06.980 And there's much more to come.

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00:18:13.140 offered to you by the best in the world.

00:18:15.760 Go to petersonacademy.com for the details.

00:18:18.480 Enroll and change your life.

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00:19:08.080 We've been a traditional family for 50 years, enjoying the usual family gatherings, birthdays,

00:19:14.280 Christmas, etc.

00:19:15.220 We have two children, six grandchildren.

00:19:17.760 Our oldest son has been with his partner for 20 years, and they have four children ages 9

00:19:21.720 to 17.

00:19:22.880 In the last two years, our son helped a woman who was in an abusive relationship, and she

00:19:27.060 and her son became part of their family.

00:19:29.040 It became apparent last year they are now in a polyamorous relationship.

00:19:33.120 Also, our 17-year-old granddaughter is now a grandson.

00:19:35.760 My husband and I can work around the latter, but cannot bring ourselves to accept the polyamorous

00:19:41.800 relationship, and as we have not accepted it completely, we are now estranged from them.

00:19:47.620 They have taken a different road, and we can't seem to find a middle road to gather with them.

00:19:53.440 Any help would be appreciated.

00:19:54.980 Thank you.

00:19:56.780 Well, the first thing I would say that might be useful for everybody listening is that

00:20:04.340 you deviate from the norm, much less the ideal, at your extreme peril.

00:20:13.320 You know, when people came to see me who were unhappy and unfulfilled, and often didn't know

00:20:21.640 what to do with their lives, one of the guidelines that I used to help me and them navigate was

00:20:31.980 you should do what everyone else does, unless you have a really good reason not to.

00:20:39.380 Now, polyamory.

00:20:44.620 Well, first of all, what the hell is that? 0.98

00:20:48.200 Just because some dim-witted leftist hedonists came up with a new word doesn't mean that anything 0.98

00:20:54.220 like that exists. 0.96

00:20:56.060 It's already very, very difficult to negotiate a relationship over the long run.

00:21:02.780 Let's call it a marriage, if you stay religiously within the normative parameters. 0.60

00:21:12.240 Now, you want to extend that beyond that.

00:21:17.000 That's your theory.

00:21:17.900 You think you're going to be sophisticated enough to negotiate the jealousies, the split of time,

00:21:25.040 the perilous risks of intimacy with more than one person, and you think you're going to do that

00:21:35.500 well, and that everyone else around you is going to know how to deal with that.

00:21:41.460 Well, every single bit of that's delusional.

00:21:44.580 Monogamy is a universal norm and ideal.

00:21:49.380 Not because people don't have proclivities in other directions, but because the human race

00:21:57.760 hasn't found a solution that's stable, all things considered, balancing the needs of children,

00:22:07.700 men and women, and society.

00:22:11.080 There's no solution to that problem other than monogamy. 0.98

00:22:15.000 And I would also say, you're doing something that's bad.

00:22:19.920 By entering into a polyamorous relationship, you're destabilizing the social norm.

00:22:30.100 And for what?

00:22:30.880 For your own benefit?

00:22:32.340 For your own hypothetical benefit?

00:22:33.980 First of all, that's a little on the selfish side, I might say.

00:22:36.920 The guardrails are there for a reason.

00:22:38.800 And you hope that your parents can somehow adapt to that.

00:22:45.020 And that what?

00:22:46.260 They're supposed to just say it's all right?

00:22:48.220 That's what they're going to do if they love you.

00:22:49.760 They're not going to raise any objections to your strange experiment.

00:22:54.320 And it's not like they knew the rules.

00:22:57.100 Like, what are the rules?

00:22:58.780 Oh, my son has two wives.

00:23:01.080 Well, no one knows what to do with that.

00:23:03.420 And so what that generally means, if you're exceptional, is that people aren't going to

00:23:09.360 have much to do with you because you're too damn much trouble. 0.71

00:23:11.320 Well, what would you do if I had been in that situation?

00:23:15.700 Like, is a bit of it dependent on how old they are?

00:23:18.340 Like, if these are people who are, I don't know, mid-20s maybe, and they're like, I'm

00:23:23.140 going to give this a shot.

00:23:24.120 I can do it.

00:23:24.740 I'm one of those people that can navigate basically an open relationship.

00:23:30.120 Like, what if I had it in my head that that was me?

00:23:33.900 Well, I think I would have fought with you until I knew what the hell was going on.

00:23:38.560 Like, that's my general proclivity.

00:23:40.760 The woman who asked this question, there's not a lot of detail in the question.

00:23:44.880 So I don't know exactly why they're alienated.

00:23:47.940 And it's a terrible thing to be alienated from your children.

00:23:51.400 Maybe they just said, we don't agree with your lifestyle and we need a boundary here.

00:23:56.300 But should the boundary be as far as we don't talk to you anymore?

00:24:01.180 Or should it be like, we love you.

00:24:05.840 We don't think this lifestyle is good for you or the people around you or potential children

00:24:10.840 you're going to have.

00:24:11.480 My suspicions are, look, if you stay within the boundaries of the norm, everybody knows

00:24:21.040 what to do.

00:24:21.880 There's a script.

00:24:23.100 You know how to have Thanksgiving dinner together.

00:24:25.280 You know how to have Christmas together.

00:24:28.220 You know how to treat your son's wife's children. 0.96

00:24:33.960 Everyone knows that.

00:24:35.760 All right.

00:24:36.080 Now, if you throw a left curve into that, well, what are the rules exactly?

00:24:43.260 And the answer to that is you have to negotiate them from scratch for everything.

00:24:49.960 Well, people are terrible at negotiating.

00:24:52.720 And so the probability that they're going to come up with a solution for that inside

00:24:57.040 a family is extremely low.

00:25:00.960 You're basically negotiating a whole new social contract.

00:25:03.760 And so part of the advantage to marriage is like a serious reduction in complexity.

00:25:12.560 You know, you have someone that you can rely on for the long run.

00:25:15.600 You can make practical and contractual relationships with them.

00:25:20.560 You can chart your course.

00:25:23.140 You don't have to manage the cascading consequences of multiple relationships.

00:25:31.940 And what?

00:25:33.020 All of a sudden, people are, they're not going to have sexual jealousy.

00:25:36.040 That's just going to disappear somehow.

00:25:38.000 And everyone's going to love each other equally.

00:25:40.540 That's going to happen.

00:25:41.680 That never happens.

00:25:42.860 That's never happened anywhere, ever, even once, to anyone.

00:25:47.400 It's preposterous.

00:25:48.760 Now, what would I do if that situation arose with my own kids?

00:25:57.780 I don't know if I'd be the one in our family that would put down the boundary.

00:26:02.480 That might be your mom. 0.99

00:26:04.620 You know, because she's probably more capable than me of saying,

00:26:09.260 I'm not going to stand by you while you walk off the edge of a cliff.

00:26:13.740 Now, I would like to think that I would fight it out because I don't want to have anything between us.

00:26:21.900 And if you were doing something seriously ill-advised,

00:26:26.420 I'd like to hope that the warning signs of that would have been there early

00:26:32.040 and that we would have worked on it before it became an unmanageable mess.

00:26:42.540 I think, for the woman who asked this question,

00:26:45.840 I think probably the problem is that the issue is too vague.

00:26:51.700 You see, now these people in this situation, they have to think through everything.

00:26:56.460 Okay, how many times a year are we going to meet?

00:26:59.140 Once, twice, three times, four times, five times.

00:27:03.720 How long are we going to meet?

00:27:05.500 Who's going to come?

00:27:07.280 What are the rules for engagement?

00:27:09.720 How should we treat everyone?

00:27:11.200 Like, I'd probably counsel them to try one dinner together

00:27:14.380 and have a pretty decent discussion about one dinner beforehand.

00:27:20.500 Who's coming?

00:27:21.400 How long is it going to last?

00:27:23.200 How are we going to treat each other?

00:27:24.800 What would I recommend?

00:27:26.080 And let's be polite like we would be to strangers

00:27:31.480 that we were trying not to offend, right?

00:27:37.760 Because nobody knows what the hell's going on.

00:27:40.380 Everything at the table is anomalous and strange.

00:27:44.120 And so maybe you meet for, maybe you meet at a restaurant

00:27:48.280 because that's kind of neutral territory.

00:27:50.500 And maybe you meet for an hour or maybe half an hour or 45 minutes,

00:27:54.860 something like that.

00:27:55.880 And you hope that it doesn't go horribly.

00:27:59.660 And then if that worked, well, if that didn't work, then scale down.

00:28:04.140 If it did work, well, then maybe you could try something a little bit more personal.

00:28:09.780 You know, the problem is, is that something terribly anomalous has occurred

00:28:16.180 and no one knows what to do about it.

00:28:18.400 Without knowing family dynamics, like, is the person who's in a polyamorous relationship,

00:28:25.480 why are they doing it?

00:28:27.340 Is it because of the person they're with that's encouraging them?

00:28:29.820 Is it something they want?

00:28:31.280 Or is it to see how their parents will react?

00:28:34.420 You know, like it could be one of those factors because maybe they,

00:28:39.100 maybe they want boundaries or maybe they want,

00:28:41.960 hey, you know what?

00:28:42.700 We don't agree with this at all, but we love you anyway

00:28:45.660 and have faith in you figuring it out.

00:28:47.980 Maybe that's the direction they need to go to.

00:28:50.540 Yeah.

00:28:51.000 Like, I feel like if I was in the situation where I was like,

00:28:53.220 you know what?

00:28:54.000 Polyamory is what I believe in.

00:28:56.660 It's what I want.

00:28:57.400 I can handle it.

00:28:58.480 It's better for me, which is a delusional way of thinking.

00:29:01.860 But if I had convinced myself that was the right thing

00:29:04.400 and it was in response to my parents,

00:29:06.960 what I would probably want is my parents to say,

00:29:09.660 we don't think this is good for you.

00:29:11.560 You know, it's not about us.

00:29:12.800 We don't think this is good for you and your family.

00:29:16.280 And we're here when you figure it out.

00:29:20.880 We're not going to encourage it.

00:29:24.300 And we don't like it, but we're here.

00:29:27.640 Okay.

00:29:28.000 I have one more thing to say about this.

00:29:31.420 People like false adventures.

00:29:33.880 Yeah.

00:29:34.980 And false adventures are excitement without responsibility.

00:29:40.560 And what you want to do within the confines of your marriage

00:29:45.860 is find adventure in the marriage responsibly.

00:29:51.440 I mean, there isn't anything better than a sexual relationship

00:29:55.920 with someone you actually love.

00:29:57.960 That's, there's nothing better than that, period.

00:30:00.680 The end.

00:30:01.200 And so, if you're not getting that excitement and adventure

00:30:06.540 within your relationship, that's what you should be working on.

00:30:09.680 And that's going to be hard.

00:30:11.020 Like, in order for that to happen,

00:30:13.240 there has to be nothing between you.

00:30:15.820 You won't trust each other.

00:30:19.000 You won't let each other go.

00:30:22.820 You won't let yourself go.

00:30:24.560 If there's anything between you and your wife, let's say.

00:30:28.700 And you're going to reduplicate every single bloody problem

00:30:32.620 that you had with your wife, with this new person, in all likelihood.

00:30:36.780 People are indefinitely complex.

00:30:39.320 And if you have put your wife in a pumpkin shell 0.51

00:30:42.360 and she's not very exciting,

00:30:44.460 then, so you have to find someone new.

00:30:47.920 Maybe you could try being a little more sophisticated

00:30:51.460 and using a bit more encouragement.

00:30:53.800 A little more daring.

00:30:54.920 A little more dreaming.

00:30:56.500 Some lingerie.

00:30:58.480 You know, clue in.

00:31:01.300 Seriously.

00:31:02.320 All this nonsense.

00:31:03.480 The New Yorker does this all the time.

00:31:05.900 The magazine.

00:31:07.260 Polyamory is the new in thing.

00:31:09.520 It's like, 1.00

00:31:10.720 there's no punishment severe enough for people that stupid 1.00

00:31:14.840 accept the consequences of their own idiocy. 1.00

00:31:19.100 And this is what these parents are afraid of. 1.00

00:31:21.680 They're afraid of it.

00:31:22.520 And they're children involved.

00:31:24.820 This is not going to work out well.

00:31:27.860 It's never worked out well.

00:31:30.940 We're dealing with a pattern of misbehaviors with our son.

00:31:33.980 Our 13-year-old throws tantrums.

00:31:36.060 Our son turned to some substance abuse.

00:31:38.780 Rules consistently applied with minimal force

00:31:42.060 and plenty of patience.

00:31:44.840 So my question is,

00:31:48.040 how do I know if I'm actually building something important

00:31:51.020 or just staying busy to feel productive?

00:31:54.680 Sometimes it seems like I'm doing a lot,

00:31:58.080 but I'm not sure whether the path is right for me.

00:32:02.540 That's my question.

00:32:03.860 And I also want to say thank you very much,

00:32:05.780 Dr. Jordan Peterson,

00:32:07.060 for completely changing my life with his views,

00:32:09.420 mental models, and the book,

00:32:10.960 12 Rules of Our Life.

00:32:12.280 Thank you very much.

00:32:13.080 There are all sorts of markers

00:32:16.300 that you can use to determine

00:32:18.080 whether you're on a productive path.

00:32:21.900 And one is that

00:32:23.520 the goals that you have envisioned for yourself

00:32:28.040 are sufficiently motivating

00:32:30.760 so that you're inclined to work voluntarily

00:32:35.260 or even enthusiastic about it.

00:32:37.400 That would be best.

00:32:38.220 And so that the direction that those goals provide

00:32:43.280 protects you from undue, directionless anxiety.

00:32:49.320 And so you have to negotiate with yourself

00:32:52.560 to see if what you're aiming at

00:32:56.800 satisfies you and fills you with hope.

00:33:00.760 But then you don't have to do this alone.

00:33:05.840 You know, corporations have boards

00:33:09.100 so that people can discuss

00:33:11.540 vision and strategy.

00:33:15.660 And so I would say

00:33:19.720 that it sounds to me like

00:33:22.480 part of what you need is

00:33:24.100 some people around you

00:33:25.900 to bounce your

00:33:27.120 ideas of the future

00:33:30.000 and your strategies against

00:33:31.940 so that you can stress test them

00:33:34.660 and

00:33:35.480 address your doubts.

00:33:38.300 So

00:33:39.980 number one, negotiate with yourself

00:33:43.120 to see if

00:33:43.860 you believe that

00:33:45.800 your plan

00:33:47.520 gives you direction and hope

00:33:51.360 and

00:33:51.680 constrains direction sufficiently

00:33:54.880 so you're not too stressed

00:33:56.360 and

00:33:58.040 test that against the world

00:34:00.820 and against the judgments

00:34:03.160 of other people.

00:34:04.360 Understanding as well that

00:34:05.680 even if you have a good plan

00:34:07.380 there's going to be some variability

00:34:09.300 that's temperamentally determined

00:34:11.500 in

00:34:12.300 whether

00:34:14.000 you're still anxious.

00:34:16.260 You know, if you're higher in trait neuroticism

00:34:18.160 you're going to be

00:34:19.960 more

00:34:21.120 variable in your

00:34:23.020 response to your goals

00:34:24.680 and

00:34:24.960 more prone to doubt.

00:34:26.900 That's also partly why you bring other people on board to

00:34:29.960 further your

00:34:32.840 your investigation.

00:34:37.380 I would also say

00:34:38.500 you could give some thought

00:34:40.500 to doing the future authoring program

00:34:42.420 at

00:34:42.680 selfauthoring.com

00:34:44.120 I was going to say that, yeah.

00:34:45.680 Yeah, and just

00:34:46.400 why were you going to say that?

00:34:48.280 Well, I mean

00:34:48.900 how do you know if you're on the right path?

00:34:51.480 What's your path?

00:34:53.100 Right.

00:34:53.280 So if you have a goal

00:34:54.160 like

00:34:54.500 maybe

00:34:54.960 this job isn't fulfilling something

00:34:57.160 but it's making you money

00:34:58.580 while you pursue a larger goal

00:35:00.600 and maybe that's something

00:35:01.360 you have to do for three or five years

00:35:02.800 while you do something else

00:35:04.240 or maybe there's opportunity

00:35:05.760 in the job

00:35:06.580 that you're not seeing

00:35:07.520 but you need an aim

00:35:08.920 Yeah.

00:35:09.620 You taught me that

00:35:10.140 so where are you going

00:35:11.360 and then see

00:35:13.180 if what you're doing

00:35:14.500 is leading to that.

00:35:15.240 Right, right.

00:35:15.740 Okay, so

00:35:16.380 you know

00:35:17.120 is where you're going good?

00:35:19.420 Yeah.

00:35:19.960 Is it leading away

00:35:21.140 from somewhere bad?

00:35:22.400 Those are two initial questions

00:35:23.760 and that's how the future authoring

00:35:25.100 is structured

00:35:25.520 but then

00:35:26.000 this is a way

00:35:28.180 of assessing your

00:35:29.220 aim.

00:35:30.680 Well

00:35:31.000 what should your aim encompass?

00:35:34.140 Well, we tried to break this down

00:35:35.520 in the future authoring program.

00:35:37.520 You want a meaningful life.

00:35:39.780 Well, let's differentiate that.

00:35:41.460 Well

00:35:41.660 do you have a plan for

00:35:43.900 marriage?

00:35:45.380 Do you have a plan for children?

00:35:47.420 Do you have a plan to educate yourself?

00:35:49.760 Do you have some sense

00:35:50.600 of how you

00:35:51.220 would or could

00:35:52.940 take care of yourself

00:35:53.980 mentally and physically?

00:35:55.720 How you could be of service

00:35:57.240 to your community?

00:35:59.200 No, that could be

00:36:00.140 volunteering

00:36:01.660 or it could be political

00:36:02.980 at all the different levels

00:36:04.300 of political

00:36:04.840 involvement

00:36:05.800 that exist.

00:36:07.160 What if your job

00:36:08.200 is also good

00:36:09.260 for the community?

00:36:10.220 Can you combine those?

00:36:11.200 Well, then good.

00:36:12.100 Okay.

00:36:12.580 Good.

00:36:12.900 Two birds, one stone.

00:36:14.040 It's just another

00:36:14.820 place

00:36:15.680 where meaning

00:36:17.140 can be derived,

00:36:18.300 right?

00:36:19.000 And mentoring people

00:36:20.600 is good

00:36:21.620 for that,

00:36:22.800 for example.

00:36:23.460 It's extremely fulfilling

00:36:24.820 for people.

00:36:26.700 How are you going

00:36:27.760 to protect yourself

00:36:28.720 against temptation,

00:36:29.720 drug and alcohol abuse

00:36:30.920 and sexual misbehavior?

00:36:32.560 The advantage

00:36:33.420 to the future authoring

00:36:34.520 program is that

00:36:35.520 it provides

00:36:37.520 a differentiated vision.

00:36:40.260 And so

00:36:40.580 this is what

00:36:42.540 I would recommend

00:36:43.140 to the gentleman

00:36:43.740 who asked the question.

00:36:44.680 It's like,

00:36:45.000 go do that

00:36:45.500 and do a bad job.

00:36:46.940 Just sketch it out.

00:36:47.880 Do a good first draft.

00:36:49.640 Because you're not

00:36:50.360 going to get it perfect

00:36:51.080 and you're going to learn

00:36:51.820 along the way.

00:36:52.780 You can substitute

00:36:53.660 a better plan

00:36:54.420 if you come up with one.

00:36:55.340 Right?

00:36:56.520 Now,

00:36:56.700 I wouldn't do that

00:36:57.300 every week.

00:36:58.540 You know,

00:36:59.040 and that's

00:36:59.460 the danger

00:37:00.220 of someone

00:37:00.720 who might be

00:37:01.460 emotionally unstable,

00:37:02.620 high in neuroticism

00:37:03.400 or really high in openness

00:37:04.600 or worse,

00:37:05.520 both.

00:37:06.380 You know,

00:37:07.000 but

00:37:07.400 make the best plan

00:37:09.460 you can.

00:37:12.120 Discuss it

00:37:12.780 with other people.

00:37:14.300 Implement it.

00:37:15.640 Then you'll learn.

00:37:17.220 Then you can take

00:37:18.140 what you learn

00:37:18.740 and,

00:37:19.740 you know,

00:37:20.520 maybe

00:37:20.900 every four months,

00:37:23.280 every six months,

00:37:24.120 every year,

00:37:24.840 you can return

00:37:25.900 to your plan

00:37:26.480 and see if it needs

00:37:27.280 some tweaking

00:37:28.800 or some

00:37:29.560 foundation work.

00:37:33.340 It's a very good idea

00:37:34.800 to move forward

00:37:35.620 with a bad plan.

00:37:37.800 It's a very good idea

00:37:39.060 to do that

00:37:39.600 compared to not

00:37:40.440 moving forward

00:37:41.260 and waiting.

00:37:42.200 The problem with waiting

00:37:43.120 is you get

00:37:43.740 disenchanted

00:37:44.900 and discouraged

00:37:45.560 and you don't

00:37:46.100 learn anything.

00:37:47.160 If you implement

00:37:48.160 a plan

00:37:48.600 that isn't

00:37:49.040 perfect,

00:37:50.020 you'll learn

00:37:50.880 exactly why

00:37:52.220 it isn't perfect

00:37:53.140 as you implement it

00:37:54.560 and then you'll be able

00:37:55.140 to make a better plan.

00:37:56.800 And

00:37:57.000 that is how

00:37:58.820 cybernetic

00:38:00.580 self-correction

00:38:01.460 works.

00:38:02.120 That's how

00:38:02.640 complex

00:38:03.600 systems

00:38:04.920 that rely

00:38:05.520 on feedback

00:38:06.360 true their aim

00:38:07.840 across time.

00:38:09.240 They start out

00:38:10.200 with a fuzzy

00:38:10.900 goal.

00:38:12.880 This is even

00:38:13.420 how large language

00:38:14.160 models are trained.

00:38:15.660 The aim is fuzzy

00:38:16.580 to begin with

00:38:17.220 and then it tightens

00:38:18.020 as it iterates.

00:38:20.060 That's the definition

00:38:21.460 of learning.

00:38:22.280 And so

00:38:22.540 with regard

00:38:25.060 to the plan

00:38:25.540 you have now,

00:38:26.340 if you're not

00:38:27.000 fully confident

00:38:28.400 in it,

00:38:28.880 well,

00:38:29.080 flesh it out

00:38:29.600 more,

00:38:29.900 as I said,

00:38:30.500 talk to other

00:38:30.940 people about it,

00:38:31.540 but then

00:38:31.940 also understand

00:38:33.180 that

00:38:33.620 that's your plan

00:38:35.820 unless you have

00:38:37.000 a better one.

00:38:38.160 And so stick

00:38:38.720 to it,

00:38:39.400 right?

00:38:39.980 And if you

00:38:40.860 stick to it

00:38:41.460 and you learn

00:38:42.060 as a consequence

00:38:42.800 of your persistence,

00:38:44.760 you will gather

00:38:45.660 the information

00:38:46.300 that will enable

00:38:46.940 you to make

00:38:47.440 a better plan

00:38:47.960 for sure.

00:38:49.400 New opportunities

00:38:50.140 will come your way

00:38:50.960 and sometimes

00:38:51.740 that'll mean

00:38:52.260 a radical shift

00:38:53.100 when it's time

00:38:54.140 and that's fine

00:38:55.120 but you're not

00:38:56.380 going to do that

00:38:56.940 without a bad plan

00:38:58.940 even.

00:38:59.320 And so if you don't

00:38:59.960 think your plan

00:39:00.500 is perfect,

00:39:01.100 well,

00:39:01.300 that doesn't mean

00:39:01.800 that you're making

00:39:02.540 a mistake.

00:39:03.440 And then if you're

00:39:04.280 really fortunate

00:39:04.900 and you watch

00:39:05.680 and this is sort

00:39:06.260 of how you

00:39:06.740 cooperate with

00:39:08.100 your plan

00:39:08.840 and with the divine

00:39:10.940 so to speak

00:39:11.640 without becoming

00:39:12.500 hidebound

00:39:13.900 and insistent

00:39:14.920 that your way

00:39:15.860 is the right way

00:39:16.900 is you have a plan

00:39:18.240 and then you search

00:39:19.420 to see

00:39:20.480 if there's

00:39:21.200 open doors

00:39:22.180 on the way

00:39:22.880 to the goal.

00:39:24.820 Right?

00:39:25.400 And if there's

00:39:25.880 if it's a good plan

00:39:26.980 people will

00:39:29.160 spontaneously

00:39:30.320 line up

00:39:32.200 to

00:39:32.560 cooperate with you.

00:39:34.680 Yeah.

00:39:35.400 I'm pretty sure

00:39:36.100 this is how

00:39:36.760 you know all those

00:39:38.020 well it's either

00:39:39.160 a scam

00:39:39.720 but you know

00:39:40.100 people who talk

00:39:40.660 about manifesting

00:39:41.500 like manifest

00:39:42.560 it'll work.

00:39:43.740 Those are either

00:39:44.160 scam artists 0.80

00:39:45.040 which I think

00:39:45.560 a good portion

00:39:46.300 of them are

00:39:46.860 or

00:39:48.020 they make a plan

00:39:50.000 and are amazed

00:39:51.100 at all the doors

00:39:51.860 that open

00:39:52.600 when they have a plan.

00:39:54.040 That's exactly right.

00:39:54.820 That's exactly

00:39:55.360 what manifesting is

00:39:56.760 and there's

00:39:57.140 and you got that right.

00:39:59.120 There's two parts to it.

00:40:00.180 There's the scam part

00:40:01.180 and the other part

00:40:02.460 which is

00:40:03.000 doors

00:40:04.420 you know

00:40:06.200 it's like

00:40:06.680 you're standing

00:40:07.420 somewhere

00:40:07.860 and there's

00:40:08.520 30 hallways

00:40:11.280 in front of you

00:40:12.740 and down each

00:40:13.680 of those hallways

00:40:14.420 there are sets

00:40:15.060 of doors

00:40:15.600 and so

00:40:16.860 you choose

00:40:18.340 a hallway

00:40:18.800 and then you

00:40:19.660 test the doors

00:40:20.560 and

00:40:21.340 if you stay

00:40:22.880 at the

00:40:24.040 beginning

00:40:24.700 of that

00:40:25.640 if you stay

00:40:26.360 on the landing

00:40:27.480 you go nowhere

00:40:28.800 and no doors open.

00:40:30.320 If you pick

00:40:30.960 a pathway

00:40:31.460 you forego

00:40:32.320 the other ones

00:40:33.080 at least temporarily

00:40:33.940 but then you start

00:40:34.860 to see the doors

00:40:35.940 and then you can

00:40:37.040 push 0.64

00:40:37.420 and see

00:40:38.560 are they opening.

00:40:40.260 I would also say

00:40:41.000 generally with the plan

00:40:42.180 generally

00:40:43.380 the amount

00:40:46.860 of your plan

00:40:47.520 you're going to change

00:40:48.520 should be proportionate

00:40:49.760 to the magnitude

00:40:50.400 of the opportunity

00:40:51.280 which means

00:40:52.580 you can make

00:40:53.100 a radical shift

00:40:54.020 in your life

00:40:54.640 now and then

00:40:55.480 if the benefits

00:40:57.640 are clear

00:40:58.440 and overwhelming

00:40:59.260 right

00:41:00.180 or the risk

00:41:00.840 is worth taking

00:41:01.620 in this adventurous way

00:41:02.760 but other than that

00:41:04.000 you should tilt

00:41:05.080 towards conservatism

00:41:06.140 don't change

00:41:07.360 anything in your plan

00:41:08.540 that you don't

00:41:09.420 have to change

00:41:10.360 right

00:41:11.160 it's a tight

00:41:11.760 it's a tight

00:41:12.440 balance

00:41:13.140 to manage

00:41:14.680 because you need

00:41:15.720 to be able

00:41:16.020 to pivot

00:41:16.460 when circumstances

00:41:18.040 have genuinely

00:41:18.760 changed

00:41:19.420 but you don't

00:41:20.180 want to upset

00:41:20.800 yourself too badly

00:41:21.920 by becoming

00:41:23.520 a new person

00:41:24.160 every 15 minutes

00:41:25.280 which is the curse

00:41:26.500 of someone

00:41:26.940 who's very high

00:41:28.080 in openness

00:41:28.620 and not very high

00:41:29.840 in conscientiousness

00:41:30.520 well that's

00:41:31.300 yes right

00:41:32.040 that was good

00:41:35.360 I was

00:41:35.940 I've been super surprised

00:41:37.440 every year

00:41:37.940 I've been doing

00:41:38.660 like I like

00:41:39.660 new year's resolutions

00:41:40.460 and things

00:41:40.960 but so once a year

00:41:42.280 I'll make a plan

00:41:43.160 for 0.99

00:41:43.380 and I shoot

00:41:44.420 pretty high

00:41:45.120 because you always

00:41:45.700 taught me to

00:41:46.460 shoot high

00:41:47.420 who knows

00:41:47.800 what you're capable

00:41:48.360 of 0.99

00:41:48.740 so I shoot

00:41:49.820 way further

00:41:52.300 than I think

00:41:52.760 I can get

00:41:53.300 and I'm like

00:41:53.720 okay this is

00:41:54.360 my plan

00:41:54.760 for 2025

00:41:55.440 and then I don't

00:41:56.380 really look at it

00:41:57.180 so it's different

00:41:58.200 than future authoring

00:41:59.520 which is really

00:42:00.600 detailed

00:42:01.200 and it's

00:42:02.140 really helpful

00:42:03.180 but I also grew up

00:42:04.580 with you as a dad

00:42:05.340 so I have that

00:42:06.420 going for me

00:42:07.020 but I've been so surprised

00:42:08.400 because every year

00:42:08.900 I'll look at

00:42:09.820 my goals again

00:42:11.180 and be like

00:42:11.980 you know what

00:42:12.540 I got through

00:42:14.320 like 80% of these

00:42:15.720 way higher

00:42:16.380 than I was expecting

00:42:17.340 and it's because

00:42:19.040 when you do make a plan

00:42:20.380 it's like your vision

00:42:21.340 changes

00:42:21.780 and you can see

00:42:22.720 these open doors

00:42:23.800 you look at

00:42:24.900 where you're headed

00:42:25.760 I mean this is literally

00:42:27.760 how perception works

00:42:28.740 you look at

00:42:29.660 where you're headed

00:42:30.240 okay

00:42:30.640 you need to be

00:42:31.700 headed somewhere

00:42:32.380 that also works

00:42:33.420 in abstraction

00:42:33.980 okay

00:42:34.420 now that you're

00:42:36.080 headed somewhere

00:42:36.900 the world divides

00:42:38.660 itself into

00:42:39.480 pathways forward

00:42:40.720 right

00:42:41.740 things that help

00:42:43.740 you along your way

00:42:44.680 things that get

00:42:46.860 in your way

00:42:47.500 and irrelevant

00:42:49.540 things

00:42:50.200 most things

00:42:51.400 are irrelevant

00:42:52.100 once you've

00:42:52.760 specified a pathway

00:42:53.620 that also controls

00:42:54.540 anxiety

00:42:55.140 right

00:42:56.160 there's lots of

00:42:56.880 things you don't

00:42:57.380 have to look at

00:42:58.220 when you're going

00:42:58.800 that way

00:42:59.460 definitely

00:42:59.880 okay

00:43:00.280 things that help

00:43:01.540 you

00:43:01.700 things that get

00:43:02.280 in your way

00:43:02.760 that works

00:43:03.980 socially

00:43:04.480 friends

00:43:05.940 and foes

00:43:07.260 so

00:43:08.180 pathways

00:43:08.860 tools

00:43:10.280 obstacles

00:43:10.960 friends

00:43:12.160 foes

00:43:12.700 and then agents

00:43:14.220 of magical

00:43:14.860 transformation

00:43:15.700 and agents

00:43:17.500 of magical

00:43:18.020 transformation

00:43:18.780 change your

00:43:20.220 aim

00:43:20.680 right

00:43:22.360 and that's the role

00:43:23.140 they play in

00:43:23.780 fiction

00:43:24.140 for example

00:43:24.740 wizards

00:43:25.300 and magical

00:43:25.900 beings

00:43:26.460 change the

00:43:27.620 game

00:43:27.920 and that's

00:43:29.620 the world

00:43:30.120 it's really

00:43:30.940 that's how you

00:43:31.580 see the world

00:43:32.160 that's how your

00:43:32.980 vision works

00:43:34.000 that's how you

00:43:35.260 hear things

00:43:36.140 that's how the

00:43:37.700 world presents

00:43:38.300 itself to you

00:43:38.940 so

00:43:39.160 no goal

00:43:40.820 no

00:43:41.540 doorways

00:43:42.680 no goal

00:43:44.480 no pathway

00:43:45.200 right

00:43:46.180 yeah

00:43:47.620 or random

00:43:48.500 horrible doorways

00:43:49.920 yeah

00:43:50.120 sure sure

00:43:51.360 that lead

00:43:52.060 like upside down

00:43:53.380 yeah

00:43:53.740 right

00:43:54.060 yeah

00:43:54.380 right right

00:43:55.240 yeah

00:43:55.960 that was

00:43:57.880 helpful

00:43:58.280 if you hear

00:44:00.820 a baby

00:44:01.320 screaming 0.51

00:44:01.780 uh

00:44:02.800 she's hungry

00:44:03.800 but

00:44:04.460 how does

00:44:05.280 one

00:44:05.480 distinguish

00:44:05.900 between a

00:44:06.600 relationship

00:44:07.060 that requires

00:44:07.800 personal growth

00:44:09.020 and sacrifice

00:44:09.880 to thrive

00:44:10.640 and one

00:44:11.080 that is

00:44:11.340 fundamentally

00:44:11.760 misaligned

00:44:12.400 with

00:44:12.720 one's deeper

00:44:13.940 values

00:44:14.520 and should

00:44:15.160 be let

00:44:15.560 go

00:44:15.900 yeah

00:44:19.200 if that

00:44:20.240 person

00:44:20.600 is going

00:44:21.320 through that

00:44:21.760 and also

00:44:22.080 just had

00:44:22.580 a baby

00:44:23.520 I would

00:44:24.240 say wait

00:44:24.860 a little

00:44:25.120 bit

00:44:25.440 because you're

00:44:26.300 in baby

00:44:26.820 mode right

00:44:27.360 now and

00:44:27.680 it's pure

00:44:28.060 chaos for

00:44:28.680 at least

00:44:28.980 a year

00:44:29.420 yeah

00:44:30.400 fair

00:44:31.260 if that's

00:44:32.080 the case

00:44:32.800 it's very

00:44:35.760 hard to

00:44:36.420 deal with

00:44:36.920 a partner

00:44:37.400 that lies

00:44:38.040 oh yeah

00:44:40.500 yeah

00:44:40.980 yeah

00:44:41.400 that's

00:44:42.700 now if

00:44:44.940 they're lying

00:44:45.540 and that's

00:44:46.280 improving

00:44:46.780 I don't

00:44:48.520 know

00:44:48.960 well look

00:44:51.060 people don't

00:44:52.020 start out

00:44:52.580 100%

00:44:53.480 trustworthy

00:44:54.240 you know

00:44:55.180 the more

00:44:57.920 lies there

00:44:58.920 are the

00:44:59.520 harder it

00:44:59.980 is by a

00:45:00.660 lot

00:45:00.900 but

00:45:01.640 you can

00:45:02.760 see a

00:45:03.180 trajectory

00:45:04.100 of improvement

00:45:04.880 that's

00:45:05.520 that's really

00:45:06.220 important

00:45:06.760 if you're

00:45:12.520 can the

00:45:13.600 person

00:45:13.920 negotiate

00:45:14.480 do they

00:45:16.780 negotiate

00:45:17.260 in good

00:45:17.580 faith

00:45:17.920 and

00:45:18.340 do they

00:45:20.280 implement

00:45:20.700 the

00:45:21.180 consequences

00:45:21.840 of the

00:45:22.240 negotiation

00:45:22.840 you know

00:45:25.280 you can

00:45:25.720 you can

00:45:26.340 take a

00:45:26.680 relationship

00:45:27.220 that's got

00:45:27.820 quite a

00:45:28.160 bit of

00:45:28.640 quite a

00:45:30.180 number of

00:45:30.880 kinks in 0.98

00:45:31.380 it and

00:45:31.760 straighten it

00:45:32.240 out across

00:45:32.680 time

00:45:33.080 if people

00:45:34.500 will commit

00:45:35.240 to the

00:45:35.540 process

00:45:35.880 and

00:45:36.300 tell you

00:45:37.680 the truth

00:45:38.160 if

00:45:39.540 if it's

00:45:41.420 a downhill

00:45:41.920 slope

00:45:43.060 continually

00:45:45.180 no improvement

00:45:48.960 whatsoever

00:45:49.600 then

00:45:50.080 then you're

00:45:53.640 playing a

00:45:54.060 game that

00:45:54.500 you probably

00:45:56.880 can't win

00:45:57.540 I think

00:45:59.220 that's a

00:45:59.560 pretty good

00:45:59.940 answer

00:46:00.300 I think

00:46:01.960 the lying

00:46:02.420 part

00:46:02.800 is key

00:46:04.100 too

00:46:04.440 like

00:46:05.380 that's

00:46:05.920 I don't

00:46:07.180 there's

00:46:07.440 nothing more

00:46:07.840 important than

00:46:08.360 that right

00:46:08.860 otherwise

00:46:09.880 you can't

00:46:10.460 sort out a

00:46:10.940 problem

00:46:11.400 you'd be like

00:46:12.040 can we fix

00:46:12.640 it sure

00:46:12.960 we can fix

00:46:13.560 it that's

00:46:14.320 a lie

00:46:14.700 you know

00:46:15.540 it also

00:46:16.420 makes you

00:46:16.940 question your

00:46:17.500 own sanity

00:46:18.180 that's yes

00:46:19.320 you know

00:46:19.600 if you're

00:46:20.040 if you're

00:46:20.500 with someone

00:46:21.020 who

00:46:21.500 insists

00:46:22.920 that the

00:46:23.540 way you

00:46:23.940 see things

00:46:24.640 when you're

00:46:25.340 trying to see

00:46:25.860 them as

00:46:26.420 accurately as

00:46:27.140 you can

00:46:27.680 is a

00:46:29.540 delusion or

00:46:30.260 faulty

00:46:30.680 it's

00:46:31.300 insanity

00:46:31.820 making

00:46:32.340 how often

00:46:33.480 do you think

00:46:33.980 that happens

00:46:34.560 in relationships

00:46:35.160 a lot

00:46:35.540 isn't that

00:46:38.100 pathological

00:46:39.000 though

00:46:39.460 like isn't

00:46:40.420 that a

00:46:41.540 disorder of

00:46:42.360 some sight

00:46:43.020 some sort

00:46:43.980 if somebody

00:46:44.520 does that

00:46:45.080 or

00:46:45.780 or is it

00:46:47.920 not pathological

00:46:48.700 and lots of

00:46:49.320 people experience

00:46:49.940 it

00:46:50.200 well I don't

00:46:52.100 really think

00:46:52.700 there is any

00:46:53.420 difference

00:46:54.400 between

00:46:56.500 personality

00:46:57.820 psychopathology

00:46:59.360 in its

00:47:01.180 most disruptive

00:47:02.060 guise and

00:47:04.080 the proclivity

00:47:05.300 lie

00:47:05.840 you know

00:47:07.940 all of the

00:47:08.860 psychotherapeutic

00:47:09.820 schools

00:47:10.340 are predicated

00:47:13.000 on the

00:47:13.360 assumption

00:47:13.720 that

00:47:14.140 truth

00:47:14.960 redeems

00:47:17.020 the

00:47:18.260 collaborative

00:47:18.720 empiricism

00:47:19.400 I was talking

00:47:20.100 about before

00:47:20.860 it's like

00:47:21.460 put it to

00:47:23.600 the test

00:47:24.020 watch what

00:47:24.600 happens

00:47:25.160 that assumes

00:47:28.560 truth in

00:47:29.660 relationship

00:47:30.180 to the

00:47:30.640 analysis of

00:47:31.280 the outcome

00:47:31.640 and

00:47:31.900 and

00:47:33.520 iterate

00:47:35.540 psychoanalytic

00:47:38.740 free

00:47:39.800 association

00:47:40.500 that's just

00:47:42.020 truth

00:47:42.540 say whatever

00:47:44.860 comes to

00:47:45.520 your mind

00:47:46.180 well that's

00:47:47.960 what you do

00:47:48.320 when you're

00:47:48.700 telling the

00:47:49.200 truth

00:47:49.480 you just

00:47:49.960 say

00:47:50.220 you can

00:47:50.800 become a

00:47:51.380 master at

00:47:51.920 that

00:47:52.060 like

00:47:52.300 I try

00:47:53.820 am I a

00:47:55.040 master at

00:47:55.480 that

00:47:55.720 I'm not

00:47:58.280 perfect

00:47:58.800 but I

00:48:01.480 do say

00:48:02.120 what comes

00:48:02.660 to mind

00:48:03.140 that's

00:48:05.260 the manner

00:48:06.300 in which

00:48:06.660 I direct

00:48:07.220 my words

00:48:08.100 I'm not

00:48:09.080 trying to

00:48:09.860 well I

00:48:11.420 have an

00:48:11.740 aim

00:48:12.140 hopefully the

00:48:13.500 aim is to

00:48:14.000 make things

00:48:14.900 better

00:48:15.440 you know

00:48:16.100 it's more

00:48:16.440 differentiated

00:48:17.180 than that

00:48:17.580 but that's

00:48:18.020 the overall

00:48:18.520 aim

00:48:18.900 do I want

00:48:19.580 to make

00:48:19.800 things worse

00:48:20.540 no

00:48:21.340 I'd rather

00:48:22.240 make them

00:48:22.660 better

00:48:23.000 for how

00:48:23.720 many people

00:48:24.340 well for

00:48:25.660 the people

00:48:26.100 that I'm

00:48:27.640 primarily

00:48:28.160 responsible

00:48:28.920 for

00:48:29.600 first and

00:48:30.600 foremost

00:48:31.040 but then

00:48:32.360 everyone else

00:48:34.060 that can be

00:48:34.660 managed

00:48:35.200 and then

00:48:37.240 I try to

00:48:41.200 say what

00:48:42.680 aids that

00:48:44.180 I'm not

00:48:47.140 manipulating

00:48:48.500 towards some

00:48:49.420 determined

00:48:49.920 end

00:48:50.460 you think

00:48:51.820 there are

00:48:52.140 some things

00:48:52.800 that you

00:48:53.780 should figure

00:48:54.200 out early

00:48:54.720 though

00:48:55.040 where

00:48:56.720 they just

00:48:57.400 don't work

00:48:58.080 like

00:48:58.760 if one

00:49:00.380 person is

00:49:00.980 extremely

00:49:01.640 organized

00:49:02.220 and extremely

00:49:03.020 high in

00:49:03.520 conscientiousness

00:49:04.400 and the

00:49:05.140 other person

00:49:05.660 isn't

00:49:06.220 like is

00:49:07.780 extremely

00:49:08.440 low

00:49:08.960 well

00:49:09.580 but those

00:49:10.780 things you

00:49:11.140 should figure

00:49:11.520 out early

00:49:11.980 we have

00:49:12.460 this

00:49:12.840 understand

00:49:13.560 myself

00:49:14.100 personality

00:49:15.060 questionnaire

00:49:15.600 yeah

00:49:15.980 right and

00:49:16.500 it has a

00:49:17.000 couples

00:49:17.360 component

00:49:18.140 and

00:49:19.460 which is

00:49:20.040 great by

00:49:20.620 the way

00:49:20.860 and everybody

00:49:21.300 should do

00:49:21.760 it

00:49:21.960 yeah

00:49:22.460 that's like

00:49:22.860 my favorite

00:49:23.520 thing other

00:49:24.220 than

00:49:24.460 Peterson

00:49:24.780 Academy

00:49:25.300 that's my

00:49:26.280 favorite

00:49:26.600 thing

00:49:26.960 that you

00:49:27.420 developed

00:49:27.800 I've been

00:49:28.420 using that

00:49:28.820 since we

00:49:30.060 had to

00:49:30.360 score it

00:49:30.820 on paper

00:49:31.360 yeah

00:49:31.700 like I was

00:49:32.840 obsessed with

00:49:33.460 that I was

00:49:34.320 the one that

00:49:34.760 said we should

00:49:35.240 do a couples

00:49:35.780 yeah

00:49:37.020 version

00:49:37.680 yeah

00:49:38.020 was using it

00:49:38.700 to screen

00:49:39.200 people

00:49:39.640 I don't know

00:49:40.480 you know what

00:49:40.820 it does

00:49:41.240 it sorts

00:49:41.960 through

00:49:42.340 extroverts

00:49:43.180 too

00:49:43.620 because you

00:49:44.400 meet an

00:49:44.660 extrovert

00:49:45.080 especially if

00:49:45.680 you're an

00:49:45.880 extroverted

00:49:46.260 person you're

00:49:46.880 like I like

00:49:47.480 this person

00:49:48.020 this person

00:49:48.520 is great

00:49:49.060 yeah

00:49:49.620 and extroversion

00:49:50.640 just coats

00:49:51.460 every other

00:49:52.060 part of their

00:49:52.520 personality

00:49:53.120 and you're

00:49:53.500 like this

00:49:53.840 person is

00:49:54.260 super fun

00:49:54.840 yeah

00:49:55.480 I had that

00:49:56.260 problem with

00:49:56.700 hiring for a

00:49:57.480 while

00:49:57.780 right

00:49:58.400 like are they

00:49:59.380 awesome

00:49:59.920 or are they

00:50:00.880 extroverted

00:50:01.620 and a lot of

00:50:02.280 the time it was

00:50:02.820 like oh they

00:50:03.560 scored 94th in

00:50:05.000 extroversion

00:50:05.740 who knows what

00:50:07.020 they're really

00:50:07.540 like

00:50:07.960 right

00:50:08.380 because it

00:50:08.640 can hide

00:50:09.200 low conscientiousness

00:50:10.940 so they can be a 0.98

00:50:11.460 total slob 0.99

00:50:12.420 and not care 0.99

00:50:13.300 about it

00:50:13.820 yeah

00:50:14.320 but really be

00:50:14.960 really charming

00:50:15.680 yeah

00:50:16.680 like that can

00:50:17.660 be hidden

00:50:18.120 or neurotic

00:50:19.840 like high

00:50:20.440 neuroticism

00:50:21.260 so they're

00:50:21.920 extremely volatile

00:50:22.760 but also very

00:50:24.360 charming

00:50:24.760 yeah

00:50:25.280 so just

00:50:26.260 figuring out

00:50:27.300 your personality

00:50:28.280 and your

00:50:29.020 partner's

00:50:29.540 personality

00:50:30.060 and being like

00:50:30.740 okay are there

00:50:31.860 things here that

00:50:32.500 we have to

00:50:33.500 discuss to see if

00:50:34.520 we can work

00:50:35.040 through

00:50:35.320 yeah

00:50:35.600 and one of

00:50:36.240 those has

00:50:36.600 got to be

00:50:37.040 conscientiousness

00:50:37.760 oh well all

00:50:38.240 of the

00:50:38.540 all of the

00:50:39.140 traits I would

00:50:39.740 say is the

00:50:40.360 the wider you

00:50:41.440 are a part

00:50:42.080 on a given

00:50:42.600 trait

00:50:43.080 the harder it

00:50:44.400 is to bridge

00:50:44.940 the gap

00:50:45.520 now there

00:50:46.400 can be some

00:50:46.960 advantages

00:50:47.480 like if

00:50:48.020 your

00:50:48.260 your

00:50:49.240 your grandmother

00:50:50.200 your mom's mom

00:50:51.260 was pretty

00:50:51.740 introverted

00:50:52.300 yeah 0.91

00:50:53.260 and your

00:50:53.840 grandfather

00:50:54.240 was really

00:50:55.040 extroverted

00:50:55.500 yeah

00:50:55.760 and

00:50:56.760 she valued

00:50:58.880 that in him

00:50:59.580 and it helped

00:51:01.120 her a lot 0.99

00:51:01.620 because it opened

00:51:02.200 up the social

00:51:02.880 space

00:51:03.460 so

00:51:04.580 that's on the

00:51:07.120 extroverted side

00:51:07.820 conscientiousness

00:51:08.860 that's a rough

00:51:10.380 one if there's a

00:51:11.180 huge split in

00:51:12.160 conscientiousness

00:51:13.100 I suppose it's

00:51:14.640 all to the

00:51:15.340 advantage of

00:51:16.000 the

00:51:16.160 unconscientious

00:51:17.100 person

00:51:17.640 yeah

00:51:18.100 you'll just

00:51:18.720 end up

00:51:19.120 if you're

00:51:19.440 the conscientious

00:51:20.100 one you'll

00:51:20.640 just end up

00:51:21.220 cleaning

00:51:21.620 for the rest

00:51:22.620 of your life

00:51:23.360 yeah

00:51:23.680 and time

00:51:24.940 management

00:51:25.500 is a hard

00:51:27.020 one

00:51:27.300 yeah

00:51:27.900 yeah

00:51:28.540 openness is

00:51:29.800 another tough

00:51:30.380 one

00:51:30.660 yeah

00:51:31.780 yeah

00:51:33.580 you know if

00:51:34.020 you one of

00:51:34.640 you is very

00:51:35.200 very open

00:51:35.860 interested in

00:51:36.600 ideas

00:51:37.000 interest in

00:51:37.720 aesthetic

00:51:38.000 experience

00:51:38.620 and the

00:51:38.860 other is

00:51:39.160 very low

00:51:39.780 in openness

00:51:40.240 it's like

00:51:40.960 you're speaking

00:51:41.480 different languages

00:51:42.380 this also

00:51:43.920 might be

00:51:44.320 helpful if

00:51:44.840 people do

00:51:45.280 find themselves

00:51:45.880 in a situation

00:51:46.580 where they

00:51:47.500 have dated a

00:51:49.020 number of

00:51:49.480 people and

00:51:49.920 they're like

00:51:50.220 it's not

00:51:50.640 working it's

00:51:51.260 not working

00:51:51.800 it's not

00:51:52.160 working

00:51:52.540 am I a

00:51:53.460 narcissistic

00:51:54.280 horrible person 1.00

00:51:56.040 and is that

00:51:57.540 the problem

00:51:58.260 or maybe

00:51:59.760 you've got some

00:52:00.460 extreme personality

00:52:01.340 traits that are

00:52:02.080 kind of rare

00:52:02.720 because I think

00:52:05.020 that's part of

00:52:06.860 what happened to

00:52:07.460 me with being

00:52:08.260 I just

00:52:09.600 was an

00:52:10.560 I'm an

00:52:11.080 extreme person

00:52:12.020 and I was

00:52:13.500 like is it

00:52:14.060 me I'm the

00:52:14.680 problem I mean

00:52:15.400 technically that

00:52:16.060 would make me

00:52:16.560 the problem

00:52:17.060 but then I

00:52:17.920 found another

00:52:18.380 extreme person

00:52:19.140 it was like

00:52:19.520 okay now we 0.99

00:52:20.520 can be lunatics 1.00

00:52:21.040 together 0.99

00:52:21.580 yeah well I

00:52:24.320 was fortunate

00:52:24.920 with your

00:52:25.280 mother too

00:52:25.720 because she's

00:52:26.120 a lot like

00:52:26.680 me but not

00:52:27.320 quite so much

00:52:28.100 so you know

00:52:29.640 your mom would 0.91

00:52:30.800 be in the

00:52:31.640 upper echelons

00:52:33.460 of extroversion

00:52:34.300 among a hundred

00:52:35.600 people right

00:52:36.240 she'd be more

00:52:36.780 extroverted than

00:52:37.460 say 75

00:52:38.220 of those people

00:52:39.040 or 80 even

00:52:40.000 but I'm like

00:52:41.380 more extroverted

00:52:42.040 than 10,000

00:52:42.900 people

00:52:43.340 yeah

00:52:43.840 so I've

00:52:45.660 always been

00:52:46.060 that way

00:52:46.500 right I

00:52:46.880 talk

00:52:47.680 ever since I

00:52:49.200 was could

00:52:50.000 talk I

00:52:51.100 never stopped

00:52:51.940 yeah

00:52:53.780 that's pretty

00:52:54.740 funny

00:52:55.140 got any

00:52:56.140 concluding

00:52:56.640 thoughts

00:52:57.140 um

00:52:58.100 I can wrap

00:52:59.420 up a little

00:52:59.900 bit

00:53:00.240 yeah you

00:53:00.940 you go for

00:53:01.740 it

00:53:01.900 that was

00:53:02.680 fun

00:53:02.980 we started

00:53:03.580 by talking

00:53:04.200 about

00:53:04.720 conservatism

00:53:06.680 in in

00:53:07.500 this

00:53:07.800 non-political

00:53:08.720 sense

00:53:09.220 if your

00:53:10.240 life is

00:53:10.680 a mess

00:53:11.280 you should

00:53:14.100 think hard

00:53:14.680 about doing

00:53:15.220 what other

00:53:15.780 people have

00:53:16.240 always done

00:53:16.800 and

00:53:18.940 what does

00:53:21.440 that mean

00:53:22.040 well we kind

00:53:22.800 of outlined

00:53:23.180 that with the

00:53:23.640 future authoring

00:53:24.280 program

00:53:24.740 you know

00:53:25.840 get married

00:53:27.640 have some

00:53:29.960 friends

00:53:30.360 that you

00:53:31.480 value

00:53:31.840 and think

00:53:33.100 about what

00:53:33.540 that's

00:53:34.040 what that

00:53:35.900 means

00:53:36.200 sort your

00:53:37.020 family out

00:53:37.660 get your

00:53:39.700 career together

00:53:40.400 educate yourself

00:53:41.460 figure out how

00:53:42.860 to resist

00:53:43.500 temptation

00:53:44.180 serve your

00:53:45.460 community

00:53:45.960 right do

00:53:47.100 all those

00:53:47.520 things

00:53:47.860 see what

00:53:48.760 your life's

00:53:49.160 like

00:53:49.420 if it's

00:53:50.720 not still

00:53:51.520 what you

00:53:51.840 want well

00:53:52.180 maybe you're

00:53:52.680 some open 1.00

00:53:53.700 lunatic 0.99

00:53:54.160 and you

00:53:54.700 have to

00:53:54.940 do

00:53:55.080 something

00:53:55.580 something

00:53:57.060 you know

00:53:57.720 really

00:53:58.920 different

00:53:59.380 but even

00:54:00.340 then

00:54:00.780 binding

00:54:02.080 that within

00:54:02.980 the confines

00:54:03.700 of all

00:54:04.000 those other

00:54:04.360 things

00:54:04.740 that's a

00:54:05.660 that's a

00:54:06.400 good idea

00:54:06.960 take a

00:54:08.500 small step

00:54:09.060 in the

00:54:09.980 direction that

00:54:10.500 you want

00:54:10.800 things to

00:54:11.160 go

00:54:11.360 and build

00:54:13.080 from that

00:54:13.600 and that's

00:54:14.460 that's always

00:54:15.440 a good

00:54:15.740 exploratory

00:54:16.540 technique

00:54:17.620 something minimal

00:54:19.440 in the right

00:54:19.940 direction

00:54:20.400 right

00:54:21.380 okay well

00:54:23.100 that was

00:54:23.460 fun thanks

00:54:23.960 for including

00:54:24.360 me

00:54:24.740 well thank

00:54:26.000 you for

00:54:26.380 setting it

00:54:26.780 up and

00:54:27.120 for agreeing

00:54:28.040 to do it

00:54:28.520 and for

00:54:29.740 finding the

00:54:30.280 questions and

00:54:31.060 yeah and

00:54:32.100 thanks for

00:54:33.400 everybody who

00:54:34.080 submitted

00:54:34.380 questions

00:54:34.980 yeah

00:54:36.980 hopefully people

00:54:37.860 enjoyed it

00:54:38.420 or found it

00:54:38.900 helpful

00:54:39.240 yeah yeah

00:54:40.700 when I

00:54:41.220 definitely

00:54:42.600 enjoy this

00:54:43.360 sort of

00:54:43.720 thing and

00:54:44.540 which is why

00:54:45.320 I'm a

00:54:45.560 psychologist not

00:54:46.400 a politician

00:54:47.020 seriously

00:54:48.780 it's it's

00:54:50.360 the right

00:54:50.660 level of

00:54:51.080 analysis for

00:54:51.760 me and

00:54:52.060 it's a

00:54:52.340 more fundamental

00:54:52.900 level anyways

00:54:53.620 because the

00:54:54.920 fundamental way

00:54:55.660 people put the

00:54:56.620 world together

00:54:57.200 is by putting

00:54:59.260 themselves together

00:55:00.020 and and

00:55:02.720 working to

00:55:03.580 fortify and

00:55:06.300 improve the

00:55:07.960 relationships they

00:55:08.800 have at hand

00:55:09.480 if everyone did

00:55:11.240 that there'd be

00:55:12.040 no reason to

00:55:12.940 even have the

00:55:14.080 political

00:55:14.440 agreed

00:55:16.320 right

00:55:16.640 so for

00:55:18.100 everybody who's

00:55:18.860 watching and

00:55:19.460 listening we're

00:55:20.360 going to now go

00:55:21.580 over to the

00:55:22.020 daily wire side of

00:55:22.880 things and do

00:55:23.960 another half an

00:55:24.640 hour take probably

00:55:25.640 two more questions

00:55:26.580 and so give some

00:55:29.080 consideration to

00:55:29.960 joining us over

00:55:30.900 there much

00:55:32.420 appreciated

00:55:32.940 it

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - May 19, 2025

548. Jordan Peterson Takes Your Call： Advice, Mental Health, Family Dynamics ｜ Mikhaila Fuller

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