564. The Meaning Of： Hansel & Gretel
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Summary
Hansel and Gretel, a poor woodcutter and his wife, find themselves without enough food to sustain their family, and soon find themselves in need of it. Will they be able to feed their children, or will they be abandoned by their mother-in-law?
Transcript
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Hello, everybody. So, in the past, I have told or read stories for children and offered
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an analysis, and I recently released a new episode of that sort discussing the Grimm's
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brothers, Snow White, and people seem pretty happy with that. I'll read you a couple of
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comments. Can we have a whole psychoanalytic series on fairy tales? So many hidden lessons.
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It also reminds me of the Peterson lectures I listened to on The Lion King, Peter Pan, and
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Pinocchio. That was some years ago. Yes, more of these. Please do more of these. All the best from
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the UK. Storytime with Dr. Peterson. Too awesome. Well, the episode proved quite popular, and people's
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responses were very positive, and I like doing narrative analysis. And so, we're going to try
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another one today. Hansel and Gretel. And you all know that story. So, we'll see how it goes.
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Hard by a great forest dwelt a poor woodcutter with his wife and two children. The boy was called
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Hansel and the girl Gretel. He had little to bite and to break, and once, when great scarcity fell on
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the land, he could no longer procure daily bread. Now, when he thought this over by night in his bed
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and tossed about in his anxiety, he groaned and said to his wife, more about her in a moment,
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what is to become of us? How are we to feed our poor children when we no longer have anything even
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for ourselves? Now, you see, there's something troublesome right there already, because
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his priorities are backwards. He says, when we no longer have anything even for ourselves, well,
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a father with his priorities right would be more concerned about his children's hunger than his own.
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And so, the teller of the tale, the writer, the author of the tale sets up the situation for us
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with that foolishness. This woodcutter is selfish and, as we'll see, also weak, and that places his
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children at great risk. How are we to feed our poor children when we no longer have anything
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even for ourselves? Prioritizing himself first. I'll tell you what, husband answered the woman,
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early tomorrow morning, we will take the children out into the forest to where it is the thickest.
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There we will light a fire for them and give each of them one piece of bread more, and then we'll go
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to our work and leave them alone. They will not find their way home again, and we shall be rid of them.
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No, wife, said the man. I will not do that. How can I bear to leave my children alone in the forest?
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The wild animals would soon come and tear them to pieces. Oh, thou fool, said she. Then we must all
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four die of hunger. Thou mayest as well plane the planks for our coffins. And she left him no peace
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until he consented. But I feel very sorry for the poor children all the same, said the man.
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Well, there's quite a tale of domestic catastrophe in that opening paragraph, because his wife,
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who turns out to be the children's stepmother, as we see in the next paragraph, is quite the horrid
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piece of work. And he doesn't stand up to her. He proclaims that he feels sorry for his children,
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but he doesn't throw his wife out of the house, which would be approximately the appropriate move
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under such circumstances, when her proclivity is to not only ensure that she's fed first,
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which makes her a very bad mother, but also to trick the children, take them to where it's maximally
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frightening, the darkest part of the forest, leave them there, and then harass her weak husband to death
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until he agrees. Now, another thing we might give some thought to with this opening is why
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the poverty exists. And we could feel sorry for the poor woodcutter and his poor
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new wife. Or we could note very carefully that their poverty might have something to do with their
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misplaced priorities and their selfishness. So let me give you a counterexample. In the story of
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Elijah, in the Old Testament, Elijah is the first prophet who identifies the voice of conscience
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with the divine, which is a major psychological transformation, right? Now, Elijah is the enemy
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of the nature worshipers who are led by an evil queen named Jezebel, who's an arrogant and narcissistic
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foreign, malign foreign influence on the Israelite nation. And she, in her arrogance and haughtiness,
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brings the nation to ruin. And she persecutes Elijah for his forthrightness and his willingness
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to stand for the one true God against the nature worshipers, which is something to think about
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in these most modern of times. In any case, Elijah is running away from Jezebel and her forces after
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having defeated the worshipers of nature. And God sends him to a poor widow, and who, if I remember
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correctly, he meets by a well. And she offers to share her remaining food with him. She just has enough
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flour for one meal for her and her son, and enough flour and oil for one meal for her and her son.
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But she offers to share it with this stranger, this strange prophet. And then it turns out that
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if she hits the barrel of flour, more flour appears, and the oil magically refills,
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so that the prophet and the woman, the widow, the poor widow and her son subsist on virtually
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nothing for a very long period of time. And you might ask, well, what does that mean? Apart from
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the, let's say, childish, magical element of it, it means that those who are generous in their
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attitude, and that might be particularly true of food, because human beings share food,
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are most likely to be provisioned appropriately over the longest period of time. So if you're
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generous and hospitable, then the probability that you'll stand at the center of a productive and
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abundant community is radically elevated. Whereas if you're only concerned about yourself,
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and you ensure that you're the one that's fed first, let's say even before your children,
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then that's reflective of an attitude that's going to do nothing but keep you admired in poverty
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forever, you and your society. So strangely enough, paradoxically enough, an attitude of generous
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hospitality and sharing is the best way to facilitate social interaction in such a way that
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everything becomes abundant. And the wife of the woodcutter is certainly selfish and cruel. And at
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minimum, the woodcutter himself is a weak pushover. That's very much also reminiscent of the situation
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with Eve and Adam, because Eve is the primary sinner, let's say, or the initiator of the fall,
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but Adam is too weak to stand up against her. And, you know, if there's ever a time for a father to
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make a stand in relationship to his children, it would be at the time when his new wife, who is not
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the children's biological mother, is harboring selfish and murderous thoughts towards them. So that kind of
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sums up the domestic situation. The two children had also not been able to sleep for hunger and had
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heard what their stepmother, there we go, had said to their father. Now, why is that relevant? Well, your
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risk for being abused in a domestic household, if you're a child, is radically elevated if you have a
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stepparent. I think the risk for abuse is a hundred times greater. It's some ridiculous amount. And so these
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old stories point out the danger of non-biological relationship in the hothouse of a domestic
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situation, especially under conditions of scarcity and privation. And that's not particularly politically
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correct, but raising children is a difficult endeavor. And you need everything that you can
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possibly have working for you to ensure that you do it properly. And one of the things that
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is useful to have working for you is biological relationship with the children whose care you're
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The two children had also not been able to sleep for hunger, unfortunate as they are in this poor and
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selfish household and had heard what their stepmother had said to their father. Gretel wept bitter tears
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and said to Hansel, now all is over with us. Be quiet, Gretel, said Hansel. Do not distress thyself. I will
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soon find a way to help us. Now, you see, that contrasts Hansel and Gretel with the stepmother and
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the woodcutter, the father, because the parents look out for themselves. That's their first impulse,
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even in a murderous way. Whereas Hansel and Gretel make a team and Hansel's response to Gretel's
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distress is to say that he will find a way to help the both of them. So he doesn't concern himself with
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his own immediate survival. He extends a hospitable hand and a brave hand to his sister.
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And when the old folks had fallen asleep, he got up, put on his little coat, opened the door below
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and crept outside. The moon shone brightly and the white pebbles which lay in front of the house
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glittered like real silver pennies. Hansel stooped and put as many of them in the little pocket of his
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coat as he could possibly get in. Then he went back and said to Gretel, be comforted, dear little
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sister, and sleep in peace. God will not forsake us. So Hansel is emblematic of the boy who can find
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the shining path even in the darkness. And he lay down again in his bed. When day dawned before the sun
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had risen, the woman came and awoke the two children saying, get up, you sluggards. We are going into the
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forest to fetch wood. She gave each a little piece of bread and said, there is something for your
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dinner, but do not eat it up before then for you will get nothing else. Gretel took the bread under
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her apron as Hansel had the stones in his pocket. Then they all set out together on the way to the
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forest. When they had walked a short time, Hansel stood still and peeped back at the house and did so
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again and again. So he's a thoughtful boy and he's planning his return home, right? And that's often
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the end of a story. How do you return home? Like the Hobbit does at the end of the, well, the Hobbit
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and at the end of the Lord of the Rings, right? To wander out into the world and to find your way home
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transformed. Then they all set out together on the way to the forest. When they'd walked a short time,
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Hansel stood still and peeped back at the house and did so again and again. His father said, Hansel,
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what art thou looking at there and staying behind for? Mind what thou art about. Mind what thou art
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about and do not forget how to use thy legs. Ah, father said, Hansel, I'm looking at my little white
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cat, which is sitting up on the roof and wants to say goodbye to me. The wife said, fool, that is not
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thy little cat. That is the morning sun, which is shining on the chimneys. Hansel, however, had not
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been looking at the cat, but had been constantly throwing out one of the white pebble stones onto
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from his pocket onto the road. When they had reached the middle of the forest, the father said, now,
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children, pile up some wood and I will light a fire that you may not be cold. So he's couching his
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malevolence, his cowardly malevolence in a facade or patina of benevolence. He's out in the forest
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taking care of his children. And that's a motif that echoes through this story. The contrast between
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the false facade of parental, paternal, maternal care and the underlying malevolent reality.
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Hansel and Gretel gathered brushwood together as high as a little hill. The brushwood was lighted.
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And when the flames were burning very high, the woman said, now, children, lay yourself down by
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the fire and rest. We will go into the forest and cut some wood. When we have done, we will come back
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and fetch you away. So the same thing, another sign of persona, another sign of virtue signaling,
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another sign of false morality, another indication you might say of, it's a variant of using God's name
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in vain. The acting out of a claim to moral virtue, obviously the woodcutter and his wife are just being
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good parents, taking care of the children while pursuing their own narrow, selfish and even malevolent aims.
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Very bad. Hansel and Gretel sat by the fire and when noon came, each ate a little piece of bread.
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And as they heard the strokes of the wood axe, they believed that their father was near.
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So they'd been lulled into a false sense of security. It was not, which is like, that's another
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indication of the depth of the betrayal, right? So the stepmother and the weak father set their
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children up to assume that they're safe in the darkest place of the woods, but they've skittered off
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and left them to their own devices. When they heard the strokes of the wood axe, they believed that the
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father was near. It was not, however, the axe. It was a branch which he had fastened to a withered tree,
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which the wind was blowing backwards and forwards. So that's another indication of his treachery and
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malevolence in the service of his cruel and heartless stepmother slash wife. He's actually
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set up an additional trick to lull his children into a sense of security so they won't follow and
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will stay lost in the forest. And as they had been sitting such a long time, their eyes shut with
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fatigue and they fell fast asleep. When at last they awoke, it was already dark night. Gretel began
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to cry and said, how are we to get out of the forest now? But Hansel comforted her and said, just wait a
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little until the moon had risen and then we will soon find the way. And when the full moon had risen,
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Hansel took his little sister by the hand and followed the pebbles, which shone like newly coined
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silver pieces and showed them the way. They walked the whole night long. So again, you can see that
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Hansel is taking care of Gretel and making manifest that spirit of reciprocity and mature care that
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actually saves the children in the final analysis and contrasts them quite dramatically with the
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appalling conduct of their parents. They walked the whole night long and by break of day came once
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more to their father's house. They knocked at the door and when the woman opened it and saw that it
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was Hansel and Gretel, she said, lying immediately as is her nature. So, you know, and that pertains to
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what we discussed before, the reasons for her poverty. She's cruel and selfish and prone continually to
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deceit. And no doubt she believes that the world is a hard place, dooming someone like her to abject
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poverty such that she can't feed herself, her husband, and the children who aren't her children.
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But given her character, her socioeconomic circumstances are hardly surprising.
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You naughty children, why have you slept so long in the forest? We thought you were never coming back
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at all. The father, however, rejoiced for it had cut him to the heart to leave them behind alone.
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Yeah, well, it might have cut him to the heart, but he didn't do much about it.
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Not long afterwards, there was once more great scarcity in all parts. And the children heard
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their mother saying at night to their father, everything is eaten again. We have one half loaf
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left and after that there is an end. Those children must go. We will take them farther into the wood so
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that they will not find their way out again. There is no other means of saving ourself. Well, so the
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children have managed to fend for themselves quite adequately at this point following the silver
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road back home in consequence of Hansel's positive conduct, his attentive attitude, and his willingness
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to take care of his sister. But they are just children. And so it's possible for adults to circumvent even the
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wisest actions of children and betray them effectively, which is what happens next.
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Next, the man's heart was heavy and he thought, it would be better for thee to share the last mouthful
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with thy children. Yeah, you think? The woman, however, would listen to nothing that he had to say,
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but scolded and reproached him. And then the author adds a comment. He who says A
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must say B likewise. And as he had yielded the first time, he had to do a second time.
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He had to do so a second time also. Well, his wife pokes and prods him to find his weakness of
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character. And once having established that initially, she knows the points to leverage. And so does that
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again. And the authors make reference to the fact that once you've given up in relationship to a
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fundamental principle, the first time, it's much more likely that you'll do the same the second time.
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The children, however, were still awake and had heard the conversation. When the old folks were
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asleep, Hansel again got up and wanted to go out and pick up pebbles, as he had done before.
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But the woman had locked the door and Hansel could not get out. Nonetheless, he comforted his little
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sister and said, do not cry, Gretel. Go to sleep quietly. The good God will help us. So Hansel is
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also a boy of some upward orientation and faith. And that makes itself manifest in his attitude of
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reciprocity towards his sister, which, as we said, contrasts with the parents, but also turns out to be
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the saving grace in the story. Early in the morning came the woman and took the children out of their beds.
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Their bit of bread was given to them, but it was still smaller than the time before. On the way
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into the forest, Hansel crumbled his in his pocket and often stood still and threw a morsel on the
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ground. So he's trying the same, a variant of the same strategy that he used last time, to leave a
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pathway so that when his parents lose him purposefully, he still has the wherewithal to get home. And he's also
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willing to sacrifice his meal to ensure that the future remains secure and predictable. And that
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shows a kind of preternatural maturity on his part, because he's a hungry child, after all, a starving
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child, even under in dire straits. And he still has enough self-control and discipline to sacrifice his
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bit of bread to ensure that his sister and himself can make their way home. So that's also a testament
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Hansel, why dost thou stop and look round, said the father. Go on. I'm looking back at my little
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pigeon, which is sitting on the roof and wants to say goodbye to me, answered Hansel. Simpleton,
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said the woman. That is not thy little pigeon. That is the morning sun that is shining on the chimney.
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Hansel, however, little by little, threw all the crumbs on the path. So he's thinking ahead.
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The woman led the children still deeper into the forest where they had never in their lives been
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before. Well, this description works on two levels because there's the concrete level where
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there is in the story, the house in the forest, and the forest is the place of danger and the unknown.
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Danger, possibility, and the unknown. And so that's really the structure of the world, a stable,
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secure center. That's the house, or in principle, secure. Although in this case, it's inhabited by,
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you know, evil stepmother. The home surrounded by the unknown. And the children are taken out into
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the unknown by the acts of their parents. But metaphysically, they're abandoned to the unknown
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because their parents do not provide them with the security that is appropriate from the moral
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perspective with regard to parental conduct. So children who are the target of malevolent envy and
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jealousy, even murderous, on the part of their parents, first motivated by exceptionally selfish reasons,
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justified by reference to self-induced poverty, do find themselves abandoned in the unknown, right?
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They're parentless children. The woman led the children still deeper into the forest where they had
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never in their lives been before. Then a great fire was again made. That's another sense of false
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security. And the mother said, just sit there, you children. And when you are tired, you may sleep a
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little. She's so wonderful. We are going into the forest to cut wood. And in the evening, when we
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were done, we will come and fetch you away. When it was noon, Gretel shared her piece of bread with
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Hansel, who had scattered his by the way. And so Gretel is also part of a reciprocal and reciprocally
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altruistic duo. You could imagine a scenario where she had secretly skittered off to eat her lone piece
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of bread by herself, leaving her brother with nothing. But despite their privation, they prioritize
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sharing. And that makes them a unit, a unit with two minds, let's say. And as such a cooperative unit,
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they're able to deal with the unknown circumstances that present themselves to them much more effectively.
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That sharing, hospitality, is the sacrifice of momentary benefit for the advantage of long-term
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communion, play, communication, strategy, and mutual support. And that is the foundation of community.
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Sacrifice as foundation of community. And Hansel and Gretel understand this.
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Then they fell asleep, and evening came and went, but no one came to the poor children.
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They did not awake until it was dark night. And Hansel comforted his little sister and said,
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Just wait, Gretel, until the moon rises, and then we shall see the crumbs of bread,
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which I have strewn about, and they will show us our way home.
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When the moon came, they set out, but they found no crumbs, for the many thousands of birds which
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fly about in the woods and fields had picked them all up. So Hansel is stymied this time in his
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attempt to circumvent the machinations of his evil stepmother and his weak father.
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Reference to his, the limits of his childhood strategizing.
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Hansel said to Gretel, We shall soon find the way. But they did not find it. They walked the whole night
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and all the next day too, from morning till evening. But they did not get out of the forest
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and were very hungry, for they had nothing to eat but two or three berries which grew on the ground.
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And as they were so weary that their legs would carry them no longer,
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they lay down beneath a tree and fell asleep. So they've come to the end of their own devices
00:28:27.780
and they've been abandoned and betrayed by their parents. And so that places them even deeper in
00:28:35.160
the woods, as we find out in the next paragraph. It was now three mornings since they had left their
00:28:41.060
father's house. They began to walk again, but they always got deeper into the forest. And if help did
00:28:47.720
not come soon, they must die of hunger and weariness. When it was midday, they saw a beautiful snow-white
00:28:55.160
bird sitting on a bough, which sang so delightfully that they stood still and listened to it. And when
00:29:00.600
it had finished its song, it spread its wings and flew away before them. And they followed it until
00:29:06.420
they reached a little house on the roof of which it alighted. And so the evil witch, who we'll encounter
00:29:14.860
soon, sends out a attractive and welcoming avatar, familiar, you might say, to attract the children.
00:29:23.600
And so this is the second time, third time in the story where we see the facade of beauty and
00:29:31.180
attractiveness, the white bird and its attractive song, serving as the camouflage that hides something
00:29:42.320
much, much darker and more malevolent. So this whole story is a warning about vice
00:29:50.800
presenting itself as virtue. And the bird is a representation of that. The children are attracted
00:30:00.580
by something that's beautiful and apparently welcoming. And it entices them in their desperation
00:30:10.500
into the evil witch's lair. Now that motif of the positive being used as camouflage for the
00:30:22.000
negative is immediately re-presented in the form of the house itself. They followed the bird until
00:30:31.800
they reached a little house on the roof of which it alighted. And when they came quite up to the little
00:30:36.760
house, they saw that it was built out of bread and covered with cakes and that the windows were of clear
00:30:43.440
sugar. We will set to work on that, said Hansel, and have a good meal. I'll eat a bit of the roof and
00:30:49.660
thou, Gretel, can eat some of the window. It will taste sweet. Hansel reached up above and broke off a
00:30:55.840
little of the roof to try how it tasted. And Gretel leant against the window and nibbled at the panes.
00:31:00.960
Then a soft voice cried from the room. Okay, so what might we conclude at this point? This looks a little
00:31:12.840
too good to be true. So you have children who are lost in the wilderness in consequence of their parents'
00:31:19.460
maliciousness and weakness and malevolence. And they are as deep into the woods as they possibly can get,
00:31:26.060
which means that they're in real trouble. And a beautiful bird appears and leads them not only to
00:31:32.520
a house, but a house that's made out of, that's literally made out of candy. And so that all screams
00:31:39.740
too good to be true. And it's a warning to everyone, children included, that it's often necessary to look
00:31:49.740
behind the facade, especially in a circumstance where things do seem to be too good to be true.
00:31:59.380
Then a soft voice cried from the room. Nibble, nibble, gnaw. Who is nibbling at my little house?
00:32:05.160
The children answered. The wind, the wind, the heaven-born wind, and went out eating without
00:32:10.980
disturbing themselves. Hansel, who thought the roof tasted very nice, tore down a great piece of it,
00:32:15.900
and Gretel pushed out the whole of one round windowpane, sat down and enjoyed herself with it.
00:32:22.200
Suddenly the door opened and a very, very old woman who supported herself on crutches came
00:32:26.480
creeping out. Hansel and Gretel were so terribly frightened that they let fall what they had in
00:32:32.060
their hands. The old woman, however, nodded her head and said, Oh, you dear children, who has brought
00:32:39.180
you here? Do come in and stay with me. No harm shall happen to you. She took them both by the hand
00:32:45.780
and led them into her little house. Then good food was set before them, milk and pancakes and sugar,
00:32:51.760
apples and nuts. Afterwards, two pretty little beds were covered with clean white linen, and Hansel
00:32:57.220
and Gretel lay down in them and thought they were in heaven. There's a deep motif here of, as I alluded
00:33:06.480
to earlier, of the pathologies of camouflaged virtue signaling. So, children are very dependent, and
00:33:15.160
they're dependent primarily on maternal benevolence. And what that means is that that maternal benevolence
00:33:24.340
can be gamed by pathological actors who can accrue to themselves all of the reputational virtue of the
00:33:33.860
positive mother. You can think about this politically as well. The maternal force that cares for everything
00:33:42.200
and including the planet and everything on it, but in reality is doing nothing but serving its own
00:33:49.740
malicious and carnivorous or even cannibalistic urges. It's a very dark story. And so,
00:33:58.820
the worst evil takes the greatest good and perverts it to the worst possible end. And that's what we see
00:34:09.040
happening here. The old woman had only pretended to be so kind. She was in reality a wicked witch who lay
00:34:17.060
in wait for children and had only built the little house of bread in order to entice them.
00:34:22.740
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00:34:28.700
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When a child fell into her power, she killed it, cooked it, and ate it. And that was a feast day for
00:35:43.200
her. Witches have red eyes and cannot see far, but they have a keen scent like the beasts and are aware
00:35:49.640
when human beings draw near. When Hansel and Gretel came into her neighborhood, she laughed maliciously
00:35:54.760
and said mockingly, I have them. They will not escape me again. Now, there's another motif here apart from
00:36:03.880
the pathology of glorious, maternal, compassionate virtue signaling, masking, carnivorous, or cannibalistic
00:36:19.260
urges. And that is the danger of maternal hyper-solicitude, right? So, human beings have the
00:36:31.520
longest developmental period of any creature. And it can last almost two decades, let's say.
00:36:42.720
And what that means is that a force that powerful can easily go wrong. A mother shouldn't be so kind.
00:36:57.160
She should take care of her children, but not offer them too much, too much being a convenient house
00:37:06.660
in the midst of danger. But not only a house, a house literally made out of candy and cake.
00:37:14.840
The mother who offers her children too much, who does everything for them, who
00:37:19.480
goes above and beyond the call of duty to announce to the world her virtuous compassion as the highest
00:37:28.780
possible moral virtue, who ends up devouring her own children. So, if it looks and sounds too good to be
00:37:44.140
true, there's some real possibility that it is. I remember my mother told me once, my mother,
00:37:51.840
she died very recently, last year, she's a very agreeable person and a compassionate person.
00:37:59.160
But she had a spine and she didn't overindulge her children or overprotect them. And I left home when
00:38:09.520
I was about 16. I'd been having some friction with my father, which was some him and some me,
00:38:17.660
perhaps even mostly me. And then once I left and went to college, our relationship re-normalized and
00:38:27.440
maintained itself quite positively from that time forward. My mom said to me,
00:38:34.160
after I had returned from college, when we were talking about having left and the fact that things
00:38:40.840
had settled up, she said, you know, and the conflict that accompanied my leaving, she said,
00:38:46.280
you know, if it was too good at home, you'd never leave. And I thought that was, that was my mother
00:38:51.280
in a nutshell, because she was a very pleasant person and a very caring person and hospitable, but
00:38:56.260
she had enough sense to know that a little bit of pushing her children out of the nest was
00:39:02.160
actually a very positive thing. And this evil witch is all too good and announcing that continually.
00:39:11.240
Early in the morning before the children were awake, she was already up. And when she saw both of
00:39:15.720
them sleeping and looking so pretty with their plump red cheeks, she muttered to herself,
00:39:20.160
that will be a dainty mouthful. Then she seized Hansel with her shriveled hand, carried him into a
00:39:26.700
little stable and shut him in behind a grated door. He might scream as he liked. That was of no use.
00:39:33.280
Then she went to Gretel, shook her till she awoke and cried, get up, lazy thing, fetch some water
00:39:38.720
and cook something good for thy brother. He's in the stable outside and is to be made fat. And so
00:39:45.200
that's an interesting twist in the story too, because mothers obviously feed their children and
00:39:53.200
that's part of maternal behavior, but to overfeed a child is again, to make a pathology of care,
00:40:04.180
right? To make a show of that maternal solicitude at the cost of the child's health and wellbeing.
00:40:12.220
And so that's the meaning of the motif, that she's fattening up her ersatz son, her temporary son,
00:40:25.460
He is in the stable outside and is to be made fat. When he is fat, I will eat him.
00:40:31.320
Gretel began to weep bitterly, but it was all in vain. She was forced to do what the wicked witch
00:40:35.680
ordered her. And now the best food was cooked for poor Hansel. But Gretel got nothing but crab shells.
00:40:43.020
Every morning, the woman crept to the little stable and cried, Hansel, stretch out thy finger that I
00:40:47.240
may feel if thou wilt soon be fat. Hansel, however, stretched out a little bone to her. And the old
00:40:53.280
woman who had dim eyes could not see it and thought it was Hansel's finger and was astonished that there
00:40:58.200
was no way of fattening him. Well, that's another indication of Hansel's self-sufficiency. He's
00:41:05.520
attentive enough and intelligent enough to notice what the old woman is up to quite clearly, not to
00:41:15.640
deceive himself about her intent. And in consequence of that careful attentiveness and refusal to deceive
00:41:23.020
himself, he plays a trick on her and indicates to her that he is by no means optimally positioned to
00:41:33.080
serve as a meal. When four weeks had gone by and Hansel still continued thin, she was seized with
00:41:39.240
impatience and would not wait any longer. Hold on, Gretel, she cried to the girl. Be active and bring
00:41:45.220
some water. Let Hansel be fat or lean. Tomorrow I will kill him and cook him. Ah, how the poor little
00:41:52.580
sister did lament when she had to fetch the water and how her tears did flow down over her cheeks.
00:41:58.460
Again, an indication that she really loved her brother. A contrary attitude might be that she was
00:42:04.680
quite relieved that it was Hansel who was serving as main course rather than her. Dear God, do help us,
00:42:13.220
she cried. If the wild beasts in the forests had but devoured us, we should at any rate have died
00:42:22.360
together. That's hammering home that motif of union in the face of adversity. Just keep thy noise to
00:42:31.060
thyself, said the old woman. All that won't help thee at all. Early in the morning, Gretel had to go out
00:42:36.740
and hang up the cauldron with the water and light the fire. We will bake first, said the old woman.
00:42:42.060
I have already heated the oven and kneaded the dough. She pushed poor Gretel out to the oven, from which
00:42:47.820
flames of fire were already darting. Creep in, said the witch. See if it is properly heated,
00:42:53.940
so that we can shut the brand in. And when once Gretel was inside, she intended to shut the oven
00:43:00.640
and let her bake in there. Then she would eat her too. But Gretel, also being an awake child,
00:43:08.180
properly taken care of, let's say by her brother, unwilling to deceive herself about the motivation
00:43:14.180
of the woman who's just too good to be true. But Gretel saw what she had in her mind and said,
00:43:19.720
I do not know how I am to do it. How do you get in? Silly ghost, said the old woman. The door is big
00:43:26.420
enough. Look, I can get in myself. And she crept up and thrust her head into the oven. Then Gretel,
00:43:34.240
who's an enterprising young woman, gave her a push that drove her far into it and shut the iron door
00:43:39.300
and fastened the bolt. Oh, then she began to howl quite horribly, but Gretel ran away and the godless
00:43:45.500
witch was miserably burnt to death. So Hansel and Gretel are awake enough to defend themselves
00:43:53.060
against the evil machinations of the camouflaged witch, the witch camouflaged in virtue. And,
00:44:02.800
you know, one of the things Carl Jung said about pathological families was that
00:44:07.300
children are also often offered an easy way out by an over-solicitous parent, for example, but that
00:44:17.080
they don't necessarily have to take the bait. So you could imagine a lonely mother with a child who
00:44:25.240
has, oh, maybe a cold. And the mother is hoping that the child could stay home from school so that she
00:44:35.080
has company and she suggests to the child verbally and non-verbally that his or her state of physical
00:44:47.320
health is sufficiently compromised so that staying home from school might be justifiable. And the child
00:44:55.960
knows full well that he's not particularly sick, but takes the bait and then enters into a
00:45:04.120
pathological covenant with the mother such that he exaggerates his proclivity for illness and brings
00:45:15.740
illness onto himself in so doing. And she benefits from the fact that she can make her maternal solicitude
00:45:22.920
manifest publicly, benefit from that display of virtue, and also not have to be alone.
00:45:29.980
And so Hansel and Gretel are not playing games of that sort. Maybe because they're bonded together and
00:45:38.560
taking care of each other, maybe because they're oriented properly, they're capable of fending for
00:45:44.340
themselves and taking action when necessary and not falling prey to the machinations of the over-demonstrative
00:45:58.200
mother figure who in truth wants to devour them. Children have a moral responsibility too, you know,
00:46:07.920
I mean, and that's a tricky thing to manage, but it takes two to tango. And that doesn't mean I'm
00:46:15.360
blaming the child in situations where the family becomes pathological. No, I had people in my clinical
00:46:21.120
practice who were offered pathological invitations, let's say by their parents, and they resisted instead
00:46:28.740
of falling prey to them and managed to free themselves from the situation. And so, you know,
00:46:36.200
everybody has their destiny and that includes children. And we make our beds even when we're
00:46:42.080
very young and then are required to lie in them.
00:46:45.380
You know what happens every summer? We all get a little too comfortable with letting our routine slide.
00:46:51.900
We sleep in, we take vacation, unplug from everything, and hey, that's great. But here's the thing.
00:46:56.960
Sometimes that break from our routine becomes a break from the stuff that actually matters,
00:47:00.480
like our spiritual discipline. That's exactly why I'm such a fan of Hallow. It's the number one
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00:47:23.560
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Gretel ran like lightning to Hansel, opened his little stable and cried, Hansel, we're saved.
00:47:53.080
The old witch is dead. So immediately her first response is to go rescue her brother. Then Hansel
00:47:58.320
sprang out like a bird from its cage when the door is open for it. How they did rejoice and embrace
00:48:03.200
each other and dance about and kiss each other. And as they no longer had any need to fear her,
00:48:08.880
they went into the witch's house. You know, and that is indication of some real bravery on their
00:48:16.780
part as well and some curiosity because you could easily imagine that their first impulse would be
00:48:22.300
to get the hell away from that place as rapidly as possible. But they're courageous enough to
00:48:28.200
investigate. And what they find is in every corner there stood chests full of pearls and jewels.
00:48:34.300
These are far better than pebbles, said Hansel, and thrust into his pockets whatever could be
00:48:38.960
got in. And Gretel said, I too will take something home with me and filled her pinafore full.
00:48:44.340
But now we will go away, said Hansel, that we may get out of the witch's forest.
00:48:48.660
So why did the children find a great treasure in the witch's house? Well, they found a great treasure
00:48:55.240
in the defeated witch's house, right? That's a crucial distinction. And the greatest treasure that
00:49:18.000
Hansel found pebbles that would help him, used pebbles that would help him find his way home. And he
00:49:23.380
makes an allusion here to the fact that these pearls are better than the pebbles that he had.
00:49:28.820
And that's an indication that, like it's an echoing or a parallelism, indicating that
00:49:35.420
the treasure that they have now found is the treasure that always helps everyone
00:49:43.280
adventure and return home. Well, that's a genuine maturity. And it's a maturity that an independence
00:49:51.760
that the children found in being forthright in maintaining their union in love and in defeating
00:50:00.960
the over-solicitous maternal embrace. When they had walked for two hours, they came to a great
00:50:10.080
piece of water. We cannot get over, said Hansel. I see no foot plank and no bridge and no boat crosses
00:50:16.400
either, answered Gretel. But a white duck is swimming there. If I ask her, she will help us over. Then
00:50:22.440
she cried, little duck, little duck, dost thou see? Hansel and Gretel are waiting for thee. There's
00:50:27.760
never a plank or a bridge in sight. Take us across on the back, so white. Well, it's a magical transition
00:50:34.080
back to the familiarity of household and father. And the water serves as that bridge and the duck as the
00:50:47.680
magical means of transport from the ultimately unknown where the evil force of maternal devouring
00:50:57.680
lies in wait. It's a transition point back to the normal world. And then there's an echo here again
00:51:04.520
of the thoughtfulness of the children because the duck came to them and Hansel seated himself on its
00:51:10.140
back and told his sister to sit by him. No, replied Gretel, that will be too heavy for the little duck.
00:51:15.700
She shall take us across one after the other. So even under those circumstances,
00:51:21.600
the children are looking out for each other. Hansel invites Gretel to sit by him, but they're also
00:51:27.480
paying attention to the circumstances, even in the midst of their good fortune, so that they don't
00:51:32.840
take undue advantage of what's being offered to them. And so they're patient. They allow the bird
00:51:38.840
to transport them one at a time. And that also ensures their safety. So they're actually very
00:51:44.520
wise little children and things work out reasonably well for them. The good little duck did so. And when
00:51:51.860
they were once safely across and had walked for a short time, the forest seemed to be more and more
00:51:57.340
familiar to them. And at length, they saw from afar their father's house. Then they began to run,
00:52:03.820
rushed into the parlor and threw themselves into their father's arms. The man had not known one
00:52:09.180
happy hour since he had left the children in the forest. Well, I should hope not. The woman, however,
00:52:15.280
was dead. Gretel emptied her pinafore until pearls and precious stones ran about the room and Hansel
00:52:22.220
threw one handful after another out of his pocket to add to them. Then all anxiety was at an end and
00:52:29.540
they lived together in perfect happiness. My tale is done. There runs a mouse. Whoever catches it may
00:52:37.240
make himself a big fur cap out of it. Hard to tell what that ending means. So, well, the children have an
00:52:44.040
adventure. They, it's an initiation. They go into the depths of the forest in consequence of a profound
00:52:54.300
betrayal. They encounter the, one of the darkest extant spirits, that devouring force of maternal
00:53:04.320
over-solicitude. They keep their wits about them. They see through the facade. They defeat the evil
00:53:14.180
witch. They maintain their partnership. They capture the treasure of great price in consequence of their
00:53:22.640
maturity, bravery, and attentiveness. And they make their way home. And that's the end of Hansel and Gretel.
00:53:46.880
You can definitely reach out to him next week for the first time.
00:53:49.560
Now fuck, sit here and take a few of the stuff on screen and realize how we album.