The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 566. The Meaning Of： There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon

00:00:00.000 So recently, I recorded some analysis of children's stories.

00:00:05.640 Once again, I had done this years ago with Pinocchio and the Lion King.

00:00:10.880 That was part and parcel of the lectures that I did at Harvard and at the University of Toronto.

00:00:16.940 More recently, I recorded an analysis of Snow White, the Grimm's brother version, and also of Hansel and Gretel.

00:00:24.620 So, I'm going to continue that today with a more recent book, a much more recent book called There's No Such Thing as a Dragon, the story in pictures by Jack Kent.

00:00:35.740 I used to read this to my Maps of Meaning class often as the first lecture because it touches on themes that are very relevant to a narrative understanding of the world.

00:00:50.140 A description of the structure through which we see the world is a story, and the motifs in stories represent cardinal elements of all of the environments that we encounter.

00:01:05.080 And I'll try to make that clear today in the discussion of there's no such thing as a dragon.

00:01:10.760 I want to show you a dragon that I have in my office here.

00:01:16.640 This is a sculpture from Mexico, which I got several years ago.

00:01:30.980 It's a circle, basically, and it has the head of a bird, kind of a monstrous bird, and it has wings like a dragon or like a bird, and it has a snake wrapped around the bird's neck.

00:01:43.000 But it's an analog of a dragon.

00:01:47.020 There's a book that I found very useful in my analysis of such things called An Instinct for Dragons by a man named David E. Jones.

00:01:56.920 And David Jones offers essentially an evolutionary explanation for the concept of dragon.

00:02:04.520 And he described a dragon as a tree, cat, snake, bird, like an amalgam of the features of tree, cat, snake, bird.

00:02:13.760 And of course, there's the element of fire as well.

00:02:18.580 And so, those are all elements of predator, you might say.

00:02:25.020 The kind of predator that have been preying on us or our evolutionary ancestors for millions of years.

00:02:35.000 We had tree-dwelling ancestors 60 million years ago.

00:02:38.320 And so, the dragon is an amalgam of the motifs of predator.

00:02:44.960 That's a good way of thinking about it, or of danger.

00:02:47.820 And the dragon battle is a narrative condensation of the drama of human beings.

00:02:59.680 The fact that we have to encounter the terrible, predatory unknown and to try to gather what's valuable that's hidden in it and to transform ourselves in that pursuit and to make our way forward as heroes.

00:03:18.440 And part of that is the ability to pay attention, to careful attention to the things that we might want to put aside and avoid.

00:03:27.180 And that's what this little story is about.

00:03:31.020 Billy Bixby was rather surprised when he woke up one morning and found a dragon in his room.

00:03:37.940 It was a small dragon, about the size of a kitten.

00:03:42.600 Well, so let's delve into the idea of dragon again.

00:03:46.420 So, the book's title is There's No Such Thing as a Dragon.

00:03:51.060 And whether or not something is real depends to some degree on your level of analysis.

00:04:00.240 So, obviously, bears are real and lions are real and Komodo dragons are real and crocodiles are real and fire is real.

00:04:08.820 Is an amalgam of all those things real?

00:04:11.940 Well, it's real in the way that an abstraction is real.

00:04:14.960 It's real in the way that the word predator or danger is real, right?

00:04:20.960 Because there's many diverse phenomena that are aggregated together in the notion, the conceptual notion of, say, predator or danger.

00:04:33.300 But that has very little to do with the reality of the concept.

00:04:39.400 Dragon is as real as predator.

00:04:41.680 Let's put it that way.

00:04:42.900 Now, the dragon concept is broader than mere predator because the dragon really stands for everything that lurks in the unknown as such.

00:04:55.540 And everything would be the danger that's part and parcel of the unknown, which is the place that the predators aggregate, let's say, but also the promise.

00:05:05.720 So, out in the unknown, which is the land of dragons, there are terrible dangers and great benefit.

00:05:13.600 Hence, the treasure that's associated with the dragon.

00:05:17.180 And the dragon contact story is, the dragon fight story is really among the oldest narratives that we possess.

00:05:27.120 So, it's an ancient motif, and it makes itself manifest in all sorts of stories.

00:05:34.080 Billy Bixby was rather surprised when he woke up one morning and found a dragon in his room.

00:05:39.640 It was a small dragon about the size of a kitten.

00:05:43.900 So, why is that relevant?

00:05:46.260 Well, Billy wakes up and there's something that's different about his environment.

00:05:52.720 And the difference makes itself manifest as something that's tiny to begin with, right?

00:05:58.720 And he's attending to it.

00:06:01.300 The dragon wagged its tail happily when Billy patted its head.

00:06:05.780 So, there's a moral already in the story there, which is that this little boy wakes up and something unexpected occurs.

00:06:14.400 And in principle, he could pretend it wasn't there or he could be afraid, but he interacts with it voluntarily.

00:06:21.520 And in consequence, this dragon is pleased.

00:06:26.100 Billy went downstairs to tell his mother.

00:06:28.580 There's no such thing as a dragon, said Billy's mother.

00:06:31.560 And she said it like she meant it.

00:06:34.000 Okay, so Billy's awake, and so he's playing the role of hero, and he's detected something anomalous and different.

00:06:42.700 And he, in his juvenile, heroic manner, has decided to interact with it voluntarily, and that's already tamed it to some degree.

00:06:51.920 And now he brings it to the attention of the authorities.

00:06:54.900 And the authorities, essentially, have already decided how the world is constituted.

00:06:58.960 And their verdict is that there's no such thing as a dragon.

00:07:05.740 And Billy's mother is insistent upon this.

00:07:10.260 Billy went back to his room and began to dress.

00:07:13.300 The dragon came close to Billy and wagged its tail.

00:07:16.720 But Billy didn't pat it.

00:07:18.060 If there's no such thing as something, it's silly to pat it on the head.

00:07:21.380 Okay, so what's the psychological significance of this?

00:07:24.880 Well, there are things that aren't to be talked about in many families and in many households.

00:07:33.220 And the attitude that reigns in households like that is that if we just pretend that the terrible thing doesn't exist, that it will go away.

00:07:43.260 And that's a form of willful blindness.

00:07:48.120 I can tell you a story about willful blindness.

00:07:50.860 So, in the Egyptian creation myth of Horus, Osiris, Isis, and Seth, there is a characterization of willful blindness as the cardinal danger that presents itself to the state.

00:08:08.080 So, here's how the story goes.

00:08:09.540 Egypt is founded by a god hero named Osiris.

00:08:15.640 And Osiris is a great awake hero like Billy when he was young.

00:08:20.160 And he is the force or the spirit or the process that establishes the state.

00:08:24.900 He ventures out into the unknown wilderness and renders it habitable like God does in Genesis at the beginning of the biblical story.

00:08:34.700 Now, Osiris establishes the state and becomes the ruler god of Egypt.

00:08:42.760 But he has a brother named Seth.

00:08:46.860 And Seth becomes Satan through the Egyptian Coptic Christians as the centuries progress. 1.00

00:08:53.500 And Seth is the dragon-like force, you might say, that always emerges to threaten the state.

00:09:06.140 And Seth wants to overthrow Osiris so that he can become a ruler.

00:09:12.140 And Osiris is willfully blind.

00:09:16.040 And so, he turns a blind eye to the machinations of his evil brother and, in consequence, is overthrown by Seth.

00:09:24.800 And so, why is that relevant?

00:09:28.300 Well, it's because malevolence can make itself manifest in unexpected forms in your personal life, in your family life, in the community, in the state, in the nation, at every level.

00:09:43.280 But the proclivity to turn a blind eye to the emergence of what's unknown and malevolent is part of the causal pathway to the devastation of the stable and productive state.

00:09:56.480 So, that's all underneath this little story.

00:09:59.740 Billy went back to his room and began to dress.

00:10:02.120 The dragon came close to Billy and wagged its tail.

00:10:05.000 So, now, you know, as a small dragon, it's also indicating its relatively benevolent intent.

00:10:11.660 And so, one of the lessons you might derive from this is the notion that if you deal with a problem when it first wags its tail, then there's every reason to assume that it can be dealt with forthrightly and...

00:10:27.980 Why is sex trafficking a multi-billion dollar industry?

00:10:31.060 Sex buyers. 0.65

00:10:32.100 To end trafficking, we need to put them in the spotlight.

00:10:34.740 The documentary, Buying Her, created by the organization Exodus Cry, is a first-of-its-kind film exposing the truth about sex buyers.

00:10:41.880 It captures the unfiltered stories of men revealing how they became predatory consumers in the booming sex trade and how some of them found redemption.

00:10:49.680 Buying Her strikes at the very heart of sex trafficking. 0.66

00:10:52.380 It's available to watch now for free at buyingher.com.

00:10:55.280 Straightforwardly, and maybe productively as well.

00:11:00.280 And so, that's why the dragon in its small form here is still a benevolent force, right?

00:11:06.440 Something unknown can make itself manifest as a mere matter of interest.

00:11:11.940 And if it's not ignored, it can be dealt with appropriately.

00:11:15.480 But Billy didn't pat it.

00:11:16.880 If there's no such thing as something, it's silly to pat it on the head.

00:11:20.560 Okay, so now Billy has adopted his mother's stance of willful blindness and is applying it to the realities of his own experience.

00:11:29.960 Billy washed his face and hands and went down to breakfast.

00:11:32.920 The dragon went along.

00:11:34.440 It was bigger now, almost the size of a dog.

00:11:38.360 Okay, so now what's happening?

00:11:39.800 Well, apparently, or hypothetically, because the dragon, which is the anomaly, the predator, and also the place of possibility, because it's being ignored, it's growing.

00:11:54.980 And so, what's the moral of that story?

00:11:56.980 Well, it's the same moral that you can derive from the Egyptian myth of Osiris and Seth.

00:12:01.760 If you turn a blind eye to something, then it can grow until it becomes an overwhelming and demolishing force.

00:12:11.860 Imagine, here's an example, imagine that you get a tax notification in the mail from your local municipal authorities,

00:12:21.240 and instead of dealing with it, you ignore it, you throw it in the garbage, or you file it in some filing cabinet, or in some file folder that you never planned to open.

00:12:32.540 It's not like it just sits there, maintaining its form.

00:12:37.600 It mutates and shifts across time and grows into something that can be quite monstrous.

00:12:43.420 And all the anomalies, the unexpected occurrences that could turn themselves into predators with time,

00:12:54.440 have the proclivity to grow if they're ignored.

00:12:57.920 And so, this little book is a story about the danger of willful blindness.

00:13:02.320 Billy sat down at the table.

00:13:04.940 The dragon sat down on the table.

00:13:07.260 This sort of thing was not usually permitted.

00:13:09.340 So, now you can see that the anomalous occurrence, the unexpected occurrence, the emergence of the predator or the unknown

00:13:19.300 is starting to disrupt the stable subroutines of the family that make up tranquil domestic life and peace.

00:13:32.520 Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide supporting everyone from established brands to entrepreneurs just starting their journey.

00:13:38.860 You can create your professional storefront effortlessly with Shopify's extensive library of customizable templates designed to reflect your brand's unique identity.

00:13:47.020 Boost your productivity with Shopify's AI power tools to craft compelling products, descriptions, engaging headlines, and even enhance your product's photography, all with just a few clicks.

00:13:56.320 Plus, you can market your business like a pro without hiring a team.

00:13:59.300 Easily develop and launch targeted email campaigns and social media content that reaches customers wherever they spend their time, online or offline.

00:14:07.220 If that's not enough, Shopify offers expert guidance on every aspect of commerce from inventory management to international shipping logistics to seamless return processing.

00:14:15.860 If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify.

00:14:18.020 Sign up for your $1 per month trial period and start selling today at shopify.com slash jbp.

00:14:23.340 Go to shopify.com slash jbp.

00:14:25.420 Again, that's shopify.com slash jbp.

00:14:27.220 The dragon sat down on the table.

00:14:31.820 This sort of thing was not usually permitted, but there wasn't much Billy's mother could do about it.

00:14:36.440 She'd already said there was no such thing as a dragon.

00:14:39.100 And if there's no such thing, you can't tell it to get down off the table.

00:14:43.840 You see that sort of thing happening in families where a child has a behavioral problem that's being ignored by the parents.

00:14:49.440 It's that the assertion is that there's nothing wrong with the child, let's say, or the child's behavior.

00:14:58.480 And so that assertion is perceived as the reality.

00:15:03.020 And then the problem has the proclivity to develop until it gets entirely out of hand.

00:15:09.980 And once the decision has been made that there's no problem there, then no amount of evidence about the problem is sufficient to shift the circumstances.

00:15:20.660 Mother made some pancakes for Billy, but the dragon ate them all.

00:15:26.700 Mother made some more, but the dragon ate those too.

00:15:29.660 That's another indication, let's say, that the dragon is associated symbolically with potential behavior problem on the part of Billy.

00:15:38.200 This anomalous occurrence, whatever it might be, is not only breaking the domestic rules with regards to its purchase on the table,

00:15:49.100 but is also interfering with Billy's ability to eat.

00:15:53.560 But Mother has to ignore that. 1.00

00:15:55.860 Mother kept making pancakes until she ran out of batter.

00:15:59.180 Billy only got one of them.

00:16:01.140 But he said that's all he really wanted.

00:16:03.800 Anyway, so now Billy is lying about the problem that's interfering with him even being able to eat to maintain his mother's fiction that there's no problem in the house.

00:16:19.940 Billy went upstairs to brush his teeth.

00:16:22.800 Mother started clearing the table. 0.97

00:16:24.760 The dragon, who was quite as big as Mother by this time, made himself comfortable on the hall rug and went to sleep.

00:16:30.900 So now the dragon has grown to the point, because it's being ignored, where it's more than a match for Mother herself.

00:16:37.780 Had she admitted to the existence of the problem to begin with and dealt with it when it first made itself manifest,

00:16:43.920 it could have stayed small and friendly, but now it's large enough to be a match for her.

00:16:50.620 By the time Billy came back downstairs, the dragon had grown so much he filled the hall.

00:16:56.180 Billy had to go around by way of living room to get to where his mother was.

00:17:00.000 I didn't know dragons grew so fast, said Billy.

00:17:03.860 There's no such thing as a dragon, said Mother firmly.

00:17:07.920 So now we have the situation where something unexpected and forbidden has made itself manifest in the house,

00:17:16.100 but everyone has decided to act as if it doesn't exist.

00:17:20.100 And the consequence of that is it's growing to the point where it dominates the house and is making all normal activity exceedingly difficult.

00:17:34.720 I'm sure you've been in households like that.

00:17:37.080 Hopefully yours isn't one of them.

00:17:38.880 Cleaning the downstairs took Mother all morning, what with the dragon in the way and having to climb in and out of windows to get from room to room. 0.84

00:17:48.240 Okay, so this is a humorous way of dealing with the fact that if a problem emerges in a household and it's not dealt with,

00:17:57.540 it can become so all-consuming that it makes all activity that should otherwise be simple and straightforward virtually impossible.

00:18:08.520 So a behavioral problem that's emerged in the course of a child's development can have exactly that aspect where there's denial,

00:18:21.860 which is more like willful blindness.

00:18:24.200 Willful blindness is a better way of thinking about denial.

00:18:26.540 It's just refusal to attend and modify perception and conception in face of new evidence.

00:18:34.800 The problem can get so large that nothing simple is simple anymore.

00:18:39.900 If there's unresolved conflict between a husband and a wife, for example,

00:18:44.420 it can get to the point where it's impossible for them to have a simple conversation about day-to-day things

00:18:51.060 because of the catastrophe, the dragon, that no one will speak about.

00:18:56.680 Maybe the suspicion of an affair, for example, or some other fundamental manifestation of mistrust

00:19:05.420 that's polluting and paralyzing the relationship to the point where nothing can be done in a simple manner.

00:19:12.520 Cleaning the downstairs took Mother all morning, what with the dragon in the way,

00:19:16.240 and having to climb in and out of windows to get from room to room.

00:19:19.200 Okay, so now Mother, who's a somewhat tyrannical and rigid sort, 1.00

00:19:25.160 has decided so emphatically that the dragon doesn't exist

00:19:31.480 that she's willing to put up with a tremendous amount of unnecessary trouble

00:19:36.860 to maintain her delusion.

00:19:40.680 She won't attend to the anomaly, let's say, to the trouble,

00:19:46.460 even though it's beginning to interfere with everything that she does.

00:19:51.540 By noon, the dragon filled the house.

00:19:54.180 Its head hung out the front door, its tail hung out the back door,

00:19:57.540 and there wasn't a room in the house that didn't have some part of the dragon in it.

00:20:02.080 If you've lived in a street with a household that has a substantial amount of trouble,

00:20:08.240 you've seen exactly this phenomena where the house is dilapidated and unkempt and the lawn is abandoned

00:20:19.000 and there's a miasma of negativity that surrounds the household

00:20:23.680 and you know that there's something monstrous going on inside it

00:20:27.720 that's pathologizing not only the inhabitants of the house

00:20:32.340 but beginning to spread out into the neighborhood itself,

00:20:36.680 then you've experienced exactly the situation that's being described in this book.

00:20:42.580 By noon, the dragon filled the house.

00:20:44.280 Its head hung out the front door, its tail hung out the back door,

00:20:47.460 and there wasn't a room in the house that didn't have some part of the dragon in it.

00:20:50.680 That's exactly the kind of household that people will walk across the street to avoid

00:20:55.660 if they're going somewhere.

00:20:58.040 When the dragon awoke from his nap, he was hungry.

00:21:01.840 A bakery truck went by.

00:21:03.780 The smell of fresh bread was more than the dragon could resist.

00:21:07.480 The dragon ran down the street after the bakery truck.

00:21:10.260 The house went along, of course, like the shell on a snail.

00:21:13.400 Okay, so now, because the dragon...

00:21:16.020 No frills, delivers.

00:21:18.640 Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express.

00:21:22.880 Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum points on your first five orders.

00:21:27.460 Shop now at nofrills.ca.

00:21:30.280 It's been ignored because the problem has been ignored

00:21:33.400 because the household is rigid and tyrannical in its presuppositions.

00:21:40.200 The dragon has gone so large that chaos rules the house instead of order,

00:21:45.860 and the trajectory of the family is being determined by the emergent property

00:21:53.620 that no one has the courage to deal with.

00:21:57.640 The mailman was just coming up the path with some mail for the Bixbys

00:22:01.200 when their house rushed past him and headed down the street.

00:22:04.700 He chased the Bixbys' house for a few blocks, but he couldn't catch it. 1.00

00:22:08.060 Yeah, well, there's plenty in that too.

00:22:11.740 So, the mailman is a representation of the order of the state, let's say,

00:22:17.020 and the household has become so chaotic at this point

00:22:19.780 that the state itself can't deliver its message to the inhabitants.

00:22:25.240 And so, you can imagine what happens if your household becomes so chaotic

00:22:28.580 that it runs away, so to speak,

00:22:31.240 and so you don't get your mail and you don't get your notifications

00:22:34.080 and all that does is aggregate a lot more chaos around you

00:22:37.340 and cause all sorts of long-term trouble

00:22:39.580 and turn into this vicious, self-devouring spiral

00:22:44.620 that's like a dragon that eats its own tail,

00:22:47.040 which is a symbol of exactly that,

00:22:49.020 and all hell breaks loose.

00:22:51.640 When Mr. Bixby came home for lunch,

00:22:54.840 the first thing he noticed was that the house was gone.

00:22:58.300 Luckily, one of the neighbours was able to tell him which way it went.

00:23:02.800 So, there's a real tragedy brewing in this story

00:23:05.520 because, well, this happens to people, doesn't it,

00:23:09.720 when a father, let's say, comes home from work

00:23:13.220 and finds that the locks have been changed

00:23:17.140 and his wife is gone with the kids

00:23:18.860 and the question is exactly what happened

00:23:22.960 and the answer is invariably,

00:23:24.900 there was a terrible dragon in the house

00:23:28.300 that could have hypothetically been attended to

00:23:31.160 when it was still small

00:23:32.260 but that was ignored studiously by all who were involved

00:23:36.460 and grew to the point where it dominated the entire house

00:23:40.500 so that everything became cataclysmically difficult

00:23:42.900 and then it ran off with the house itself

00:23:45.280 and the man comes home

00:23:47.660 and the house is gone, so to speak,

00:23:50.580 because the dragon ran away with it

00:23:52.160 and his response is, I never saw it coming

00:23:55.320 and the first question that you might ask about

00:23:58.800 that kind of response is,

00:24:00.680 maybe that's because you didn't look, right?

00:24:04.400 There were warning signs of a thousand different kinds

00:24:09.060 making themselves manifest in a thousand different directions,

00:24:12.760 parts of the dragon scattered all over hell

00:24:15.140 and all over hell's half acre

00:24:17.160 but never underestimate the, what?

00:24:22.400 The insistence that someone who does not want to see

00:24:28.540 brings to bear on the maintenance of their blind delusion

00:24:33.600 and so Mr. Bixby's house ran away

00:24:36.520 because he wasn't paying enough attention

00:24:39.180 to what was going on inside it.

00:24:41.880 Mr. Bixby got in his car

00:24:44.700 and went looking for the house

00:24:46.340 He studied all the houses as he drove along

00:24:48.820 Finally, he saw one that looked familiar

00:24:51.260 Billy and Mrs. Bixby

00:24:53.580 were waving from an upstairs window

00:24:56.260 Mr. Bixby climbed over the dragon's head

00:25:00.080 onto the porch roof

00:25:02.220 and through the upstairs window

00:25:04.620 How did this happen?

00:25:06.920 Mr. Bixby asked

00:25:08.000 It was the dragon

00:25:10.040 said Billy

00:25:11.320 There is no such thing

00:25:13.780 Mother started to say 0.89

00:25:15.360 There is a dragon

00:25:17.040 Billy insisted

00:25:17.780 A very big dragon

00:25:18.820 and Billy patted the dragon

00:25:20.720 on the head

00:25:21.760 Okay, so now

00:25:22.860 I want to tell another story

00:25:24.820 that's associated with this

00:25:26.280 So

00:25:27.240 this is from

00:25:29.240 the Exodus narrative

00:25:31.960 near the end of it

00:25:33.860 the Exodus narrative

00:25:35.660 This is the story of Moses

00:25:37.320 leading the Israelites 0.79

00:25:38.400 away from tyranny

00:25:40.380 through the desert

00:25:41.140 to the promised land

00:25:42.280 and it extends over a number

00:25:44.000 of Old Testament books

00:25:45.580 Exodus, Numbers, and Leviticus

00:25:47.860 If I remember correctly

00:25:49.500 This

00:25:50.960 story

00:25:52.420 takes place

00:25:53.860 when the Israelites

00:25:56.080 are just on the

00:25:57.480 cusp of

00:25:59.100 their

00:25:59.720 movement

00:26:01.820 from the desert

00:26:03.000 to the promised land

00:26:05.060 So they go from

00:26:06.020 tyranny

00:26:07.260 which is

00:26:08.920 the rigidity

00:26:10.360 let's say

00:26:11.240 that Mrs. Bixby

00:26:12.700 makes manifest

00:26:14.340 in this story

00:26:15.860 to the desert

00:26:17.520 which is

00:26:18.340 a descent into chaos

00:26:19.940 before moving towards

00:26:21.620 the promised land

00:26:22.580 which is

00:26:23.180 the better future

00:26:24.140 Now

00:26:24.920 it's the fact

00:26:26.340 of the intermediary desert

00:26:27.780 that makes

00:26:29.960 the

00:26:30.400 tyrant

00:26:31.760 who won't

00:26:33.060 awaken

00:26:34.380 that motivates

00:26:36.900 the stubbornness

00:26:37.760 of the tyrant

00:26:38.420 who won't awaken

00:26:39.920 Mrs. Bixby

00:26:41.920 doesn't want to

00:26:42.720 contend with the dragon

00:26:43.700 because she would have

00:26:44.760 to abandon

00:26:45.480 some of her presuppositions

00:26:47.060 about

00:26:47.460 the state

00:26:48.720 of the household

00:26:49.560 and the world

00:26:51.020 and that would

00:26:52.360 throw her 1.00

00:26:53.360 into

00:26:53.840 a state of

00:26:55.040 at least

00:26:56.440 temporary confusion

00:26:57.720 and perhaps

00:26:58.280 serious confusion

00:26:59.300 so you don't go

00:27:00.320 from

00:27:00.780 conviction

00:27:03.020 to new learning

00:27:04.580 like this

00:27:05.440 you go from

00:27:06.280 conviction

00:27:06.840 to chaos

00:27:08.040 and confusion

00:27:08.800 to new learning

00:27:09.960 and the fact

00:27:11.100 of the intermediary

00:27:12.060 chaos and confusion

00:27:13.160 is enough

00:27:14.120 to dissuade

00:27:14.760 people from

00:27:15.540 attending

00:27:16.900 let's say

00:27:17.440 to the dragons

00:27:18.100 when they

00:27:18.600 make themselves

00:27:19.680 manifest

00:27:20.780 okay

00:27:21.560 so

00:27:21.960 the Israelites

00:27:23.200 are on the cusp

00:27:24.740 of moving to the promised land

00:27:26.380 they're close to getting

00:27:28.320 where they

00:27:28.820 they're close to finishing

00:27:31.000 the voyage

00:27:31.600 in the manner

00:27:32.200 that's been promised

00:27:33.240 but they

00:27:34.460 lose faith

00:27:35.540 and they get

00:27:36.260 whiny 0.62

00:27:37.100 and

00:27:37.700 complain

00:27:38.860 and

00:27:39.480 they get bitter

00:27:40.780 and resentful

00:27:41.620 and they

00:27:43.080 lose faith

00:27:45.020 in the

00:27:45.640 voyage forward

00:27:47.120 to the

00:27:48.420 promised land

00:27:49.480 and they

00:27:50.560 carp

00:27:52.120 and complain

00:27:52.800 and they

00:27:53.440 criticize Moses

00:27:54.540 and they

00:27:55.340 turn away

00:27:57.040 from

00:27:57.420 the divine

00:27:58.760 intuition

00:27:59.280 that's leading

00:27:59.920 them forward

00:28:00.460 and

00:28:00.920 because of that

00:28:02.420 God sends

00:28:04.500 poisonous snakes

00:28:06.760 to bite them

00:28:07.420 now

00:28:07.960 poisonous snakes

00:28:09.220 are

00:28:09.620 dragons

00:28:10.560 for all intents

00:28:11.420 and purposes

00:28:11.940 their bite

00:28:12.960 is the bite

00:28:13.720 of fire

00:28:14.440 although fire

00:28:15.260 is also a predator

00:28:16.280 and so

00:28:17.380 the

00:28:18.360 emergence

00:28:19.600 of the poisonous snakes

00:28:20.940 is a

00:28:22.120 narrative

00:28:22.780 representation

00:28:23.520 of

00:28:24.260 the manifestation

00:28:25.880 of

00:28:26.580 dragons

00:28:27.620 in consequence

00:28:29.820 of the Israelites

00:28:31.080 faithlessness

00:28:32.260 and so

00:28:33.500 their refusal

00:28:35.520 to walk

00:28:36.600 the proper

00:28:37.200 path

00:28:37.720 dooms them

00:28:38.880 to

00:28:39.300 encounter

00:28:40.320 with the

00:28:40.960 poisonous serpents

00:28:42.140 okay so now

00:28:43.520 there's poisonous

00:28:44.420 serpents

00:28:45.020 let's call them

00:28:46.380 small dragons

00:28:47.200 everywhere

00:28:48.040 and they're

00:28:49.120 getting bit

00:28:49.660 and that's not

00:28:50.420 good

00:28:50.720 and so

00:28:51.280 they go

00:28:51.860 to Moses

00:28:52.420 because they

00:28:54.240 know he has

00:28:54.840 a pipeline

00:28:56.180 to the divine

00:28:56.980 and they say

00:28:58.160 we know

00:28:59.760 you can

00:29:00.180 talk to

00:29:00.880 God

00:29:01.220 and

00:29:02.280 we're

00:29:03.980 sick and

00:29:04.720 tired of

00:29:05.080 being bit

00:29:05.480 by these

00:29:05.940 poisonous snakes

00:29:06.700 and

00:29:07.200 we're

00:29:08.160 willing to

00:29:08.720 do what's

00:29:09.220 necessary

00:29:09.720 to

00:29:10.100 deal with

00:29:11.180 them

00:29:11.320 maybe you

00:29:11.760 could

00:29:11.940 we're

00:29:13.220 willing to

00:29:13.840 do what's

00:29:14.340 necessary

00:29:14.780 to put us

00:29:15.360 back in

00:29:15.840 God's

00:29:16.240 good graces

00:29:16.920 maybe you

00:29:17.820 could ask

00:29:18.260 him to

00:29:18.560 call off

00:29:18.960 the snakes

00:29:19.500 and so

00:29:20.580 Moses has

00:29:23.400 a chat

00:29:23.740 with God

00:29:24.220 and God

00:29:24.780 who sent

00:29:26.680 the snakes

00:29:27.260 decides that

00:29:29.240 he's not

00:29:29.600 going to

00:29:29.960 get rid

00:29:30.280 of them

00:29:30.580 instead

00:29:31.440 he does

00:29:31.960 something

00:29:32.280 very

00:29:32.800 unexpected

00:29:33.900 he asks

00:29:35.480 the Israelites

00:29:36.100 to gather

00:29:37.360 all their

00:29:37.840 bronze

00:29:38.300 together

00:29:38.780 like they

00:29:40.780 gathered

00:29:41.220 gold

00:29:41.560 together

00:29:41.920 in an

00:29:42.280 earlier

00:29:42.520 episode

00:29:42.980 to make

00:29:43.520 the

00:29:43.920 golden

00:29:44.940 calf

00:29:45.420 which they

00:29:45.920 drunkenly

00:29:47.020 and

00:29:47.200 orgiastically

00:29:47.960 worship

00:29:48.520 they gather

00:29:49.380 all their

00:29:49.700 bronze

00:29:50.000 together

00:29:50.420 and

00:29:51.900 they're

00:29:53.360 to cast

00:29:54.020 a

00:29:54.440 stake

00:29:55.620 like

00:29:56.140 Moses

00:29:56.520 staff

00:29:57.160 a tree

00:29:58.360 a flagpole

00:30:00.020 a center

00:30:01.540 of the

00:30:02.000 world

00:30:02.420 a foundation

00:30:04.020 pole

00:30:04.500 and to

00:30:05.740 put a

00:30:06.100 serpent

00:30:06.360 on it

00:30:06.900 cast in

00:30:07.720 bronze

00:30:08.100 that's

00:30:09.660 large enough

00:30:10.200 so that the

00:30:10.760 Israelites can

00:30:11.420 see it at

00:30:11.880 some distance

00:30:12.560 and then

00:30:13.240 so they're

00:30:14.440 to cast

00:30:14.880 that

00:30:15.280 and

00:30:16.380 then

00:30:17.100 they're

00:30:17.340 all

00:30:17.600 to go

00:30:17.920 look

00:30:18.260 at it

00:30:18.720 and

00:30:19.880 if they

00:30:20.420 look

00:30:20.760 at it

00:30:21.280 then

00:30:22.860 they won't

00:30:23.520 be

00:30:23.880 affected

00:30:25.280 by the

00:30:27.480 poison

00:30:27.920 and so

00:30:29.620 the

00:30:31.100 Israelites 0.94

00:30:31.440 all go

00:30:32.140 they gather

00:30:33.460 up their

00:30:33.920 bronze

00:30:34.240 and they

00:30:34.600 cast

00:30:34.920 this

00:30:35.600 staff

00:30:37.720 tree

00:30:38.960 flagpole

00:30:40.920 and they

00:30:41.600 put a

00:30:42.220 serpent

00:30:42.440 on it

00:30:42.900 and they

00:30:44.040 all look

00:30:44.480 at it

00:30:44.840 voluntarily

00:30:45.480 and in

00:30:46.720 consequence

00:30:47.220 they're no

00:30:48.420 longer

00:30:48.920 affected

00:30:49.700 by the

00:30:50.180 poison

00:30:50.560 so the

00:30:51.600 snakes

00:30:51.840 don't

00:30:52.160 disappear

00:30:52.520 but now

00:30:52.940 the

00:30:53.120 Israelites 0.94

00:30:53.480 are

00:30:53.900 fortified

00:30:54.560 enough

00:30:55.020 so that

00:30:56.040 they're

00:30:56.580 immune

00:30:57.040 from the

00:30:57.500 poison

00:30:57.840 and then

00:30:58.840 that's a

00:30:59.600 symbol

00:30:59.960 that stake

00:31:00.720 with a

00:31:01.140 serpent

00:31:01.400 wrapped

00:31:01.720 around it

00:31:02.160 it's a

00:31:02.640 symbol

00:31:02.880 of healing

00:31:03.540 it's

00:31:04.260 the

00:31:04.560 staff

00:31:04.980 of

00:31:05.160 Asclepius

00:31:05.880 it's

00:31:06.560 the symbol

00:31:07.060 that

00:31:07.280 pharmacists

00:31:07.940 and

00:31:08.120 physicians

00:31:08.500 use

00:31:09.040 and the

00:31:10.060 upshot

00:31:11.240 of the

00:31:11.560 story

00:31:11.880 is that

00:31:12.620 voluntary

00:31:13.840 confrontation

00:31:14.900 in measured

00:31:16.440 doses

00:31:16.940 with what

00:31:17.980 might otherwise

00:31:18.840 poison you

00:31:19.780 what might

00:31:20.860 otherwise poison

00:31:21.720 you

00:31:22.040 strengthens

00:31:23.580 and redeems

00:31:24.460 you

00:31:24.800 and so

00:31:25.560 that's the

00:31:26.000 principle

00:31:26.420 let's say

00:31:27.160 of a

00:31:27.420 vaccine

00:31:27.900 where you

00:31:28.300 take a

00:31:28.660 small amount

00:31:29.240 of what

00:31:29.960 would

00:31:30.240 otherwise

00:31:31.020 kill you 0.70

00:31:31.540 and that

00:31:31.880 fortifies

00:31:32.460 you

00:31:32.640 but it's

00:31:32.980 also the

00:31:33.460 principle

00:31:33.820 of

00:31:34.240 learning

00:31:35.220 itself

00:31:35.800 because

00:31:36.240 when you

00:31:36.960 learn

00:31:37.360 you

00:31:38.580 encounter

00:31:39.020 something

00:31:39.440 that

00:31:39.740 is

00:31:40.360 challenging

00:31:40.820 and difficult

00:31:41.580 and that

00:31:42.100 might reshape

00:31:42.860 you

00:31:43.100 dramatically

00:31:43.640 and that

00:31:44.080 might even

00:31:44.520 knock you 0.99

00:31:45.340 into the

00:31:45.760 desert

00:31:46.060 before it

00:31:46.660 takes you

00:31:47.000 to the

00:31:47.220 promised

00:31:47.520 land

00:31:47.920 and you

00:31:48.860 stand on

00:31:50.340 that edge

00:31:50.900 of discovery

00:31:51.720 voluntarily

00:31:52.700 and in

00:31:54.360 consequence

00:31:54.780 you become

00:31:55.660 much stronger

00:31:56.720 which is what

00:31:57.480 Billy was

00:31:58.160 trying to do

00:31:58.820 at the

00:31:59.360 beginning of

00:31:59.840 this story

00:32:00.340 and what

00:32:00.720 his mother

00:32:01.260 dissuaded

00:32:02.500 him from

00:32:03.120 in her

00:32:03.940 willfully

00:32:04.520 blind

00:32:05.020 and

00:32:05.460 tyrannical

00:32:06.380 manner

00:32:06.780 that led

00:32:07.840 to the

00:32:08.260 dissolution

00:32:08.780 of the

00:32:09.260 entire

00:32:09.600 house

00:32:10.020 now

00:32:11.240 later

00:32:11.660 it turns

00:32:12.500 out

00:32:12.760 that

00:32:13.120 and this

00:32:14.340 is very

00:32:14.680 complicated

00:32:15.260 that

00:32:15.660 Christ

00:32:16.900 tells his

00:32:17.680 followers

00:32:18.100 in the

00:32:18.700 gospels

00:32:19.180 that unless

00:32:19.840 he's lifted

00:32:20.560 up like

00:32:21.620 the brazen

00:32:22.440 serpent

00:32:22.840 was lifted

00:32:23.400 up in

00:32:23.760 the desert

00:32:24.180 that there'll

00:32:25.040 be no

00:32:25.780 hope of

00:32:26.300 redemption

00:32:26.720 for mankind

00:32:27.760 and that's

00:32:29.720 a very

00:32:29.980 strange

00:32:30.540 narrative

00:32:31.560 segue

00:32:32.960 and what

00:32:34.000 does it

00:32:34.320 mean

00:32:34.600 well

00:32:35.980 the

00:32:37.200 crucifix

00:32:38.360 this is a

00:32:38.800 very profound

00:32:39.460 thing to

00:32:39.860 understand

00:32:40.260 it's almost

00:32:41.220 unutterably

00:32:41.860 profound

00:32:42.280 and it's

00:32:43.260 surprising that

00:32:43.860 it might emerge

00:32:44.500 in the midst

00:32:45.160 of a discussion

00:32:45.760 about this

00:32:46.260 little kid's

00:32:46.840 book

00:32:47.080 so

00:32:48.100 the

00:32:50.300 motif of

00:32:51.400 the brazen

00:32:51.920 serpent

00:32:52.340 is

00:32:53.060 it's the

00:32:55.260 presentation

00:32:55.860 of the

00:32:56.580 fact that

00:32:57.280 voluntary

00:32:58.440 encounter

00:32:59.120 with what

00:32:59.680 is

00:33:00.060 frightening

00:33:01.120 or even

00:33:01.700 poisonous

00:33:02.340 paralyzing

00:33:04.180 can be

00:33:05.820 redemptive

00:33:07.120 and so

00:33:08.040 then you

00:33:08.400 might ask

00:33:08.900 yourself

00:33:09.320 what's the

00:33:10.940 ultimate

00:33:11.280 exemplar

00:33:11.940 of that

00:33:12.380 what's the

00:33:13.720 worst of

00:33:14.780 all

00:33:15.140 poisonous

00:33:16.580 serpents

00:33:17.240 on a

00:33:18.000 staff

00:33:19.200 or a

00:33:19.820 flagpole

00:33:20.360 and the

00:33:21.460 answer to

00:33:21.920 that

00:33:22.260 biblically

00:33:23.300 is

00:33:23.760 the

00:33:24.720 crucifixion

00:33:25.500 because

00:33:26.420 death

00:33:27.980 by poison

00:33:29.260 can be

00:33:30.380 amplified

00:33:30.940 you might

00:33:31.440 say

00:33:31.760 into

00:33:32.140 the

00:33:32.760 worst

00:33:33.200 form

00:33:33.580 of

00:33:33.780 death

00:33:34.240 brought

00:33:34.900 about

00:33:35.220 by the

00:33:35.620 most

00:33:35.820 toxic

00:33:36.380 form

00:33:36.840 of

00:33:37.040 poison

00:33:37.500 and

00:33:38.220 the

00:33:38.360 worst

00:33:38.600 form

00:33:38.920 of

00:33:39.100 death

00:33:39.440 is

00:33:39.960 the

00:33:40.600 suffering

00:33:41.040 of

00:33:41.400 someone

00:33:42.660 who's

00:33:43.220 not only

00:33:43.980 innocent

00:33:44.420 but

00:33:44.920 positively

00:33:45.880 good

00:33:46.380 or even

00:33:46.980 sinless

00:33:47.700 the most

00:33:50.740 painful

00:33:51.260 and humiliating

00:33:52.220 possible

00:33:52.820 death

00:33:53.280 of the

00:33:54.060 best

00:33:54.380 possible

00:33:54.900 person

00:33:55.420 that's

00:33:56.540 the most

00:33:57.020 poisonous

00:33:57.720 serpent

00:33:59.840 and so

00:34:01.300 Christ

00:34:02.580 is making

00:34:03.080 the point

00:34:03.640 in this

00:34:05.100 symbolic

00:34:05.540 manner

00:34:05.960 that

00:34:06.320 the

00:34:06.960 crucifix

00:34:07.680 is

00:34:08.240 the

00:34:09.220 ultimate

00:34:09.620 exemplar

00:34:10.380 of the

00:34:10.840 brazen

00:34:11.280 serpent

00:34:11.820 and that

00:34:12.880 gazing

00:34:15.080 upon that

00:34:15.860 which is

00:34:16.300 the full

00:34:16.740 voluntary

00:34:17.340 confrontation

00:34:18.180 not only

00:34:18.760 with death

00:34:19.360 but with

00:34:19.920 hell

00:34:20.280 with malevolence

00:34:21.240 which is

00:34:22.140 part of the

00:34:22.900 crucifixion

00:34:24.420 and resurrection

00:34:24.900 story

00:34:25.560 is the

00:34:26.620 pathway

00:34:27.080 to

00:34:27.640 redemption

00:34:28.920 right

00:34:29.960 that

00:34:30.280 in order

00:34:31.020 to

00:34:31.380 make peace

00:34:32.360 with life

00:34:32.960 that

00:34:33.820 all of

00:34:34.540 its

00:34:34.700 aspects

00:34:35.300 no matter

00:34:35.780 how

00:34:36.220 terrible

00:34:37.120 and dark

00:34:37.800 have to be

00:34:38.940 confronted

00:34:39.540 voluntarily

00:34:40.240 and the

00:34:40.960 consequence

00:34:41.380 of that

00:34:41.940 is

00:34:42.360 universal

00:34:43.660 redemption

00:34:44.200 and the

00:34:45.480 alternative

00:34:45.880 theory

00:34:46.360 is that

00:34:47.080 one that

00:34:47.800 Mrs.

00:34:48.480 Bixby

00:34:48.820 seems to

00:34:49.400 be

00:34:49.720 clinging

00:34:50.380 to

00:34:50.700 and her

00:34:51.100 husband

00:34:51.380 as well

00:34:51.860 which is

00:34:52.300 that

00:34:52.560 the best

00:34:53.400 way to

00:34:53.820 establish

00:34:54.320 the order

00:34:54.820 that's

00:34:55.140 good

00:34:55.320 in your

00:34:55.580 household

00:34:55.920 is to

00:34:56.380 ignore

00:34:56.660 problems

00:34:57.200 when they

00:34:57.560 make

00:34:57.760 themselves

00:34:58.140 manifest

00:34:58.640 and

00:34:59.520 that's

00:35:00.160 definitely

00:35:00.800 not how

00:35:01.860 you learn

00:35:02.360 and it's

00:35:02.840 certainly

00:35:03.220 how your

00:35:04.320 household

00:35:04.820 ends up

00:35:05.380 disappearing

00:35:05.960 down the

00:35:07.040 street

00:35:07.300 when you're

00:35:07.780 at work

00:35:08.260 and you

00:35:08.900 don't expect

00:35:10.340 it

00:35:10.640 how did

00:35:11.940 this happen

00:35:12.500 Mr.

00:35:12.900 Bixby asked

00:35:13.620 it was the

00:35:14.460 dragon

00:35:14.840 said Billy

00:35:16.000 there's no

00:35:16.900 such thing

00:35:17.560 mother started

00:35:18.380 to say

00:35:18.840 there is a

00:35:19.580 dragon

00:35:20.020 Billy

00:35:20.660 insisted

00:35:21.260 two thumbs

00:35:22.240 up for

00:35:22.620 Billy

00:35:22.900 a very big

00:35:23.780 dragon

00:35:24.240 that makes

00:35:25.060 him a

00:35:25.320 hero

00:35:25.560 and Billy

00:35:26.220 patted

00:35:26.640 the dragon

00:35:27.180 on the

00:35:27.560 head

00:35:27.800 so finally

00:35:28.720 someone

00:35:29.320 has

00:35:30.560 called

00:35:31.200 attention

00:35:31.620 to the

00:35:32.100 problem

00:35:32.520 and that's

00:35:33.300 Billy

00:35:33.580 and so

00:35:34.380 that makes

00:35:35.240 him the

00:35:35.500 hero of

00:35:35.800 the story

00:35:36.180 and

00:35:36.800 see

00:35:37.760 in the

00:35:38.440 Egyptian

00:35:39.060 creation

00:35:39.660 myth

00:35:39.940 that I

00:35:40.280 described

00:35:40.660 earlier

00:35:41.120 so Billy

00:35:42.760 is the

00:35:43.420 son of

00:35:43.940 the man

00:35:44.360 who's

00:35:44.620 blind

00:35:44.960 to the

00:35:45.320 dragon

00:35:45.640 in this

00:35:46.100 story

00:35:46.440 in the

00:35:47.160 Egyptian

00:35:47.500 creation

00:35:48.020 myth

00:35:48.300 that I

00:35:48.620 described

00:35:49.020 earlier

00:35:49.520 Osiris

00:35:51.440 is willfully

00:35:52.200 blind

00:35:52.740 about

00:35:53.320 Seth

00:35:53.860 who's

00:35:54.420 his evil

00:35:54.840 brother

00:35:55.200 the spirit

00:35:55.880 of malevolence

00:35:56.600 itself

00:35:57.060 and Seth

00:35:58.200 chops Osiris

00:35:59.380 up and

00:35:59.940 into bits

00:36:01.180 he can't really

00:36:02.460 kill him

00:36:02.860 because he's

00:36:03.260 a god

00:36:03.680 chops him

00:36:04.400 into bits

00:36:04.800 and distributes

00:36:05.440 him all

00:36:05.720 around Egypt

00:36:06.280 and the

00:36:07.320 queen of

00:36:07.620 the underworld

00:36:08.160 Isis

00:36:08.740 makes herself

00:36:10.000 manifest

00:36:10.900 and makes

00:36:12.600 herself pregnant

00:36:13.340 with the

00:36:14.580 relevant part

00:36:15.740 of Osiris

00:36:16.680 and she

00:36:17.080 gives birth

00:36:17.680 to Horus

00:36:18.960 and Horus

00:36:20.260 is the

00:36:20.740 redeeming

00:36:21.360 Egyptian

00:36:21.820 god

00:36:22.280 and Horus

00:36:22.820 is the

00:36:23.160 famous

00:36:23.560 Egyptian

00:36:24.420 eye

00:36:24.960 and the

00:36:25.900 open eye

00:36:26.440 that can

00:36:26.840 see

00:36:27.260 and Horus

00:36:29.620 differs from

00:36:30.300 Osiris

00:36:30.960 in that

00:36:31.440 he's willing

00:36:32.180 to look

00:36:32.720 upon the

00:36:34.020 dragon of

00:36:34.760 malevolence

00:36:35.520 that would

00:36:36.080 be Seth

00:36:36.600 and admit

00:36:37.780 to its

00:36:38.240 existence

00:36:38.760 and so

00:36:39.400 Horus

00:36:39.800 goes back

00:36:40.440 to Egypt

00:36:41.700 and he

00:36:42.120 has a

00:36:42.440 terrible

00:36:42.820 Horus

00:36:43.860 Isis

00:36:45.280 makes herself

00:36:45.960 pregnant 0.80

00:36:46.420 Horus

00:36:47.560 develops

00:36:48.120 outside of

00:36:49.300 Egypt

00:36:49.720 alienated

00:36:50.820 from the

00:36:51.340 kingdom

00:36:51.640 that's now

00:36:52.180 ruled by

00:36:52.740 his evil

00:36:53.360 uncle

00:36:54.060 when he

00:36:55.040 matures

00:36:55.440 he goes

00:36:56.200 back to

00:36:56.620 Egypt

00:36:56.940 voluntarily

00:36:57.640 and he

00:36:58.520 takes on

00:37:00.200 Seth

00:37:00.660 and he

00:37:01.380 has a

00:37:01.700 terrible

00:37:01.980 battle

00:37:02.340 with Seth

00:37:02.820 because Seth

00:37:03.420 is a

00:37:03.740 terrifying

00:37:04.080 force

00:37:04.640 the force

00:37:05.480 of malevolence

00:37:06.140 itself

00:37:06.560 and Seth

00:37:07.800 tears out

00:37:08.400 one of

00:37:08.840 Horus' 0.84

00:37:09.700 eyes

00:37:10.060 which is

00:37:10.880 an indication

00:37:11.600 of just

00:37:12.320 how

00:37:12.800 catastrophic

00:37:13.920 the full

00:37:14.720 encounter

00:37:15.140 with malevolence

00:37:15.940 can be

00:37:16.440 but

00:37:17.720 Horus

00:37:18.700 defeats

00:37:20.400 Seth

00:37:20.720 banishes

00:37:21.320 him to

00:37:21.940 the nether

00:37:22.340 regions

00:37:22.760 of the

00:37:23.080 kingdom

00:37:23.340 and gets

00:37:24.240 his eye

00:37:24.620 back

00:37:24.960 now he

00:37:25.660 could

00:37:26.040 rule

00:37:27.320 Egypt

00:37:28.420 in consequence

00:37:30.380 of his

00:37:30.820 victory

00:37:31.160 but that

00:37:31.560 isn't what

00:37:31.900 he does

00:37:32.280 he

00:37:32.500 goes down

00:37:33.840 to the

00:37:34.140 underworld

00:37:34.720 where

00:37:35.160 Osiris

00:37:35.920 is languishing

00:37:36.820 in his

00:37:37.720 half-dead

00:37:38.340 state

00:37:38.800 and he

00:37:39.680 gives

00:37:40.180 Osiris

00:37:41.100 his eye

00:37:42.700 and now

00:37:43.560 his father

00:37:44.440 can see

00:37:45.160 and he

00:37:45.800 joins forces

00:37:46.680 with his

00:37:47.140 father

00:37:47.460 who can

00:37:47.840 now see

00:37:48.420 and the

00:37:49.480 conjoined

00:37:50.500 union

00:37:50.920 of Horus

00:37:51.720 who's

00:37:52.920 the vision

00:37:53.860 that's willing

00:37:54.400 to admit

00:37:54.900 to the

00:37:55.240 existence

00:37:55.640 of malevolence

00:37:56.540 and the

00:37:57.320 tradition

00:37:57.820 that can

00:37:58.360 now see

00:37:59.140 that's

00:37:59.760 Osiris

00:38:00.340 that becomes

00:38:01.300 the ruling

00:38:01.900 spirit of

00:38:02.620 Egypt

00:38:02.860 and is

00:38:03.620 the

00:38:04.040 model

00:38:05.440 for the

00:38:06.200 Egyptian

00:38:06.960 pharaohs

00:38:07.740 when they're

00:38:08.160 ruling

00:38:08.500 properly

00:38:09.580 and so

00:38:10.920 Billy is

00:38:12.080 a

00:38:12.420 avatar

00:38:13.740 of Horus

00:38:14.480 and he's

00:38:15.420 willing to

00:38:16.100 cast a

00:38:17.340 brave eye

00:38:17.980 on the

00:38:18.380 existence

00:38:18.820 of

00:38:19.280 the

00:38:20.800 dragon

00:38:21.180 and

00:38:22.420 to interact

00:38:23.900 with it

00:38:24.320 and Billy

00:38:26.240 patted the

00:38:26.760 dragon on

00:38:27.240 the head

00:38:27.680 the dragon

00:38:29.980 wagged

00:38:30.580 its tail

00:38:30.940 happily

00:38:31.360 then even

00:38:32.620 faster

00:38:33.160 than it

00:38:34.060 had grown

00:38:34.620 the dragon

00:38:35.720 started getting

00:38:36.320 smaller

00:38:36.780 soon

00:38:38.000 it was

00:38:39.180 kitten sized

00:38:39.860 again

00:38:40.260 well you

00:38:43.280 know in

00:38:43.640 the in

00:38:44.140 the garden

00:38:44.500 of Eden

00:38:44.860 there's a

00:38:45.340 serpent

00:38:45.720 and and

00:38:47.120 you might

00:38:48.300 ask well

00:38:48.940 why would

00:38:51.040 there be a

00:38:51.480 serpent in

00:38:52.840 a garden that

00:38:53.440 God had

00:38:53.800 created and

00:38:54.440 the answer

00:38:54.860 is well

00:38:55.960 when you

00:38:57.080 bind a

00:38:57.640 space

00:38:58.160 you can't

00:39:00.500 completely

00:39:01.080 separate it

00:39:02.120 from what's

00:39:03.260 outside of

00:39:03.940 it

00:39:04.060 the fact

00:39:06.580 of what

00:39:07.360 isn't in

00:39:08.000 the space

00:39:08.640 is going

00:39:09.320 to make

00:39:09.780 itself

00:39:10.140 manifest

00:39:10.600 inside the

00:39:11.420 space

00:39:11.740 so for

00:39:12.120 example you

00:39:12.620 can't keep

00:39:13.180 your children

00:39:13.720 completely

00:39:14.380 protected from

00:39:16.360 outside influences

00:39:17.420 they're going to

00:39:18.480 come into your

00:39:18.960 house one way or

00:39:19.680 another and if

00:39:20.920 you're so

00:39:21.740 protective that

00:39:22.720 you don't let

00:39:24.100 your children have

00:39:24.740 any contact

00:39:25.400 with the outside

00:39:26.140 world then you

00:39:27.040 become the

00:39:27.620 malevolence that

00:39:28.420 you're trying to

00:39:29.080 protect them

00:39:29.600 from and so

00:39:30.920 there's no way

00:39:31.820 of binding a

00:39:32.600 space without

00:39:33.160 having some

00:39:34.200 anomaly or

00:39:36.420 some inconsistency

00:39:37.920 or some of

00:39:39.520 what's unexpected

00:39:40.500 inside that

00:39:41.380 space and so

00:39:42.740 then the

00:39:43.600 question is how

00:39:44.320 do you deal

00:39:44.900 with the fact

00:39:45.660 of the eternal

00:39:46.340 serpent in the

00:39:47.140 garden let's

00:39:47.780 say and the

00:39:48.680 answer is laid

00:39:50.080 out in the

00:39:50.700 exodus story and

00:39:51.860 in the crucifixion

00:39:53.000 narrative which

00:39:53.700 is that you

00:39:55.040 don't attempt to

00:39:56.620 make the space

00:39:57.300 secure you

00:39:57.960 attempt to make

00:39:58.880 yourself brave

00:40:00.180 and forthright

00:40:01.020 enough to admit

00:40:03.100 to and attend

00:40:04.000 to the trouble

00:40:05.360 in your household

00:40:06.420 and in your

00:40:07.100 psyche and in

00:40:07.880 your state and

00:40:09.080 to contend with

00:40:10.100 it and in

00:40:10.740 consequence you

00:40:11.600 get braver and

00:40:12.880 more well

00:40:13.360 constituted and

00:40:14.700 then and then

00:40:17.680 chaos and order

00:40:18.500 can exist can

00:40:20.220 coexist happily and

00:40:21.760 productive peace

00:40:23.360 and interesting

00:40:24.200 adventure interesting

00:40:25.920 playful adventure

00:40:26.880 can make

00:40:28.280 themselves manifest

00:40:29.360 the dragon wagged

00:40:30.660 its tail happily

00:40:31.420 then even faster

00:40:33.160 than it had

00:40:33.920 grown the dragon

00:40:35.520 started getting

00:40:36.100 smaller soon it

00:40:39.000 was kitten sized

00:40:39.840 again I don't

00:40:41.600 mind dragons this

00:40:42.500 size said mother

00:40:43.360 why did it have

00:40:45.020 to grow so big

00:40:46.200 I'm not sure

00:40:47.820 said Billy but I

00:40:50.840 think it just

00:40:51.400 wanted to be

00:40:52.000 noticed so what's

00:40:56.040 the moral of the

00:40:56.820 story don't be

00:40:59.380 thinking that

00:40:59.840 dragons aren't

00:41:00.480 real that's the

00:41:02.060 first moral and

00:41:04.100 what's the second

00:41:04.700 moral if you

00:41:08.260 attend to them

00:41:08.900 when they first

00:41:09.440 make themselves

00:41:10.060 manifest then they

00:41:11.000 won't run away

00:41:11.580 with your house

00:41:12.340 and that's story

00:41:15.780 hour with JBP

00:41:16.900 today thanks very

00:41:18.780 much for your time

00:41:19.580 and attention bye

00:41:21.120 bye

00:41:26.820 g

00:41:37.700 M

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - July 28, 2025

566. The Meaning Of： There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript