Advice for Dealing with Bullies, Big Tech and Social Media ｜ Answer the Call Ep. 1
Episode Stats
Summary
In this episode of Answer the Call, host Dr. Kelly answers a question about bullying and technology, and offers advice on how to deal with it. Guest: Dr. John Peterson, a pediatrician who specializes in obesity and mental health.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
You got bullied, right? You talked all the time.
00:00:04.960
My son, Anthony, is overweight. His friends used to tease him and ridicule him.
00:00:10.260
Our eight-year-old son has been called fat by a few friends.
00:00:13.040
How can we as parents encourage a healthy lifestyle, knowing when or if to focus on weight?
00:00:18.780
The situation that you're both facing at the moment is not
00:00:25.000
My husband and I are parents to two young adult ladies.
00:00:31.540
we feel like the generation gap right now is more like a generation chasm.
00:00:36.500
How can parents raise children to value debt in an age dominated by short-form content?
00:00:45.580
During Answer the Call, I take questions from people just like you from around the world
00:00:49.680
about their problems, opportunities, challenges, or if they simply need advice.
00:00:54.280
My daughter, Michaela, guides the conversations as we hopefully help people navigate their lives.
00:01:11.880
Over the next hour, we're going to hit on two topics, bullying and technology,
00:01:34.320
Yes, my son, Anthony, is overweight and he's approaching morbid obesity.
00:01:44.000
As he gained more and more weight, his friends used to tease him and ridicule him.
00:01:52.420
So my question is, how do you repair this kind of damage?
00:01:56.780
He's 21, approaching 22, stays in his room most of the time, lost in video games and that
00:02:06.460
And it's kind of like living with a heroin addict.
00:02:08.820
I get as sick as he does trying to steer him and control him.
00:02:14.760
And I just feel lost as a parent and I don't know how to heal him.
00:02:25.620
Well, the first thing I feel compelled to say is that, and this isn't exactly the psychological
00:02:32.480
issue, is that, you know, my family, my daughter in particular, Michaela, has battled with health
00:02:40.360
problems, very serious health problems her whole life.
00:02:43.440
And one of the things that we've discovered that's very strange and odd, but that has been
00:02:49.620
verified now by thousands of people is that a carnivore diet will strip weight off people
00:02:58.600
so fast that it's absolutely beyond comprehension.
00:03:01.940
And so I would feel remiss in my obligations if I didn't lay that out as a potential practical
00:03:18.580
Um, I guess what I would say more on the forgetting about diet on the practical side, although there
00:03:27.760
are obviously health concerns as well as social concerns that are relevant here, I would say,
00:03:33.020
what is it that you, I would want to find out what you envision for your son and what he envisions.
00:03:42.780
Like we, we know that the situation that you're both facing at the moment is not optimal,
00:03:51.420
You guys need a joint plan that you agree on, on what would be better.
00:03:58.280
And I, I, like people, human beings by their nature are visionary creatures as we lay out
00:04:08.260
a structure that we wish to make real in the future.
00:04:15.100
Otherwise we're the puppets of our surrounding or the, um, victims of forces that are beyond
00:04:23.260
Vision is the alternative to manipulation and, and subjugation.
00:04:30.780
Um, vision is the alternative to slavery and tyranny.
00:04:34.080
Your son is not living a life that is sustainable and productive, no doubt by his own account and
00:04:44.680
certainly by yours as a, an interested and concerned parent.
00:04:49.620
It would be helpful to help him develop a plan for where he wants to be in five years.
00:05:00.100
And for you, for, for him to help you understand what would be best for him from you, you know,
00:05:09.940
cause I can imagine his attitude is something like, get off my back, dad, and leave me alone.
00:05:21.600
And you can understand that his attitude could well be, don't bug me.
00:05:27.420
However, things are not going in a good direction.
00:05:31.180
And so your conundrum is, well, you have to, what are you going to do?
00:05:36.260
Ignore it and let things deteriorate across time.
00:05:40.540
And so you guys are in a position where you need to develop a plan and it needs to be one
00:05:47.740
And that's going to take some very difficult discussion to convince him.
00:05:52.580
I guess I would start with questions, you know, and because questions rather than statements
00:05:58.900
are a much more effective way to suggest and intervene.
00:06:04.580
But they have to be non-manipulative, you know, they have to be genuine questions.
00:06:09.040
So if your son came and saw me, I would say, like, first of all, well, how are you reacting
00:06:22.340
It's like, well, this is problematic and this is problematic, but it's like I'm defending
00:06:26.640
myself by hiding and I don't know what else to do about that.
00:06:31.380
And then you have to ask, well, if this could be rectified, what would a rectification look
00:06:50.060
How, as a father, you could ask him as well, how do you want me to conduct myself when I see
00:06:56.440
that you're ensconced in a world of misery in a manner that's going to make the future
00:07:02.800
If I love you, I can't ignore that, but I don't want to torture you to death and add to
00:07:11.180
Given your understanding as well, that I can't just stand by and watch you go to hell in
00:07:24.820
So first of all, and I think a lot of chronically ill, I think every chronically ill person,
00:07:30.020
including people suffering with obesity, are blamed for their health problems.
00:07:38.340
And then they're left in this position where they don't know the solution.
00:07:46.660
So like what I would say, like my husband lost 300 pounds doing the carnivore diet.
00:07:57.800
No, and he's a staggering good looking person now.
00:08:01.240
And it's not, you don't have to starve yourself.
00:08:03.160
I would probably, if I was them, trying to get on board with trying the diet as a family.
00:08:15.820
Some people have a harder time stopping eating them than other people.
00:08:27.140
But third of all, you can do something about it.
00:08:30.200
And let's just all try it as a family for like a couple of months.
00:08:35.920
He's probably not just, it's not the video games that are the problem.
00:08:39.560
I would say it's the physical ailments and probably depression and brain fog that are
00:08:46.560
That's a very important additional concern because the fact of his obesity is a reflection
00:08:52.320
of an inability to manage a high carbohydrate, high sugar diet.
00:08:58.200
And it's clearly the case that many forms of depression are inflammatory and are brought
00:09:11.080
I should also say, you know, it took me a long time to eradicate all quick judgment from
00:09:20.080
my observations of people that were obese because it's very easy to judge.
00:09:25.400
And I've become completely convinced that the best way of thinking about it is that it's
00:09:32.620
It's like, we're wired genetically to gorge on high carbohydrate, high sugar foods because
00:09:43.100
And so when you came across honey, you just ate all of it because maybe you're not going
00:09:49.720
They also set up scientists to manufacture foods so that people could stop eating them.
00:10:00.200
Um, and I don't think, you know, you need to go on a diet or you need to change the way
00:10:05.560
It puts the blame on the person and it doesn't even give them a plan.
00:10:09.520
Well, and diets don't work because a diet is food restriction.
00:10:15.460
If you restrict and then stop restricting because you can't maintain that forever, you
00:10:26.220
And the advantage to this carnivore diet approach or keto approach is that you can eat as much
00:10:33.460
I also can't tell you, like I had a juvenile rheumatoid arthritis from the age of two and
00:10:43.260
I gained weight when I went away to college because then I started eating pizza and beer
00:10:52.000
And, uh, and it really impacted my mental health.
00:10:54.900
But I cannot explain how much this diet has changed my life.
00:11:01.100
Like I was on something like eight medications for psychological health and then immune suppressants,
00:11:10.900
So I could sleep painkillers for the arthritis.
00:11:14.540
The other thing that's helpful too is like your kid isn't very old.
00:11:20.000
That's, I turned around my health when I was 23.
00:11:26.520
And I actually needed to get old enough to recognize that my health issues were going
00:11:35.840
But I know a lot of younger people who've done the carnivore diet.
00:11:39.560
Like my husband started a keto diet when he was 17 and that's when he lost 300 pounds.
00:11:50.440
But once you're on it, you don't even want those other foods.
00:11:52.920
And I think he'll start dropping weight so fast that he'll be like, okay.
00:12:14.840
With hand-selected professors from top universities around the world.
00:12:23.380
Giving them the audience and the remuneration and appreciation they deserve.
00:12:30.900
We figure we can offer people a high quality university level education for under $2,000.
00:12:58.680
Our eight-year-old son is kind, loving, and socially observant.
00:13:02.820
He is also very sensitive, especially in regards to his appearance and his performance.
00:13:07.220
He is taller and heavier than his siblings and most peers and has been called fat by a few
00:13:13.840
How can we as parents encourage a healthy lifestyle, knowing when or if to focus on weight without
00:13:19.960
creating an eating disorder or hyperfixation on his outward appearance?
00:13:24.080
Well, I guess some of the discussion that we already had is relevant with regards to stabilization
00:13:31.380
of diet, is that moving your family's eating pattern to a lower carbohydrate load would be
00:13:40.800
And, you know, your comment with the last questioner was that this has to be a family affair.
00:13:45.100
And I believe that's the case because eating is a communal activity.
00:13:50.060
And just cutting processed foods can make a big difference.
00:13:54.080
If you just focus on a lot of meat, fruit, and vegetables, try to get rid of the grains
00:13:59.520
and processed foods, that'll probably help him out.
00:14:02.260
And I wouldn't say, like, again, that it's his fault.
00:14:07.200
We're kind of set up in society right now to eat hyperpalatable foods.
00:14:11.080
And most people, if weight gain doesn't hit them young, it hits them eventually.
00:14:16.440
Nobody escapes it unless they have a low-carb diet.
00:14:18.700
Well, we also know that there are radical individual differences in the degree to which
00:14:25.200
So, for example, Pacific Islanders, island people have gone through periods of food deprivation,
00:14:33.840
their cultures, very radically in their evolutionary history.
00:14:37.820
And so island people tend to pack on weight like mad.
00:14:40.800
And so the Polynesians, for example, on a North American diet, they just balloon out no time flat.
00:14:46.220
And so there is wide individual variability in the proclivity to put on weight.
00:14:51.480
I really do think it's crucial to stop making it a issue of lack of willpower or morality.
00:15:03.300
So if you're on a diet and you're not satiated, you're going to cheat.
00:15:06.520
Or when you stop the diet, you'll return to your old eating habits.
00:15:13.240
And that's very difficult and it's very radical, but it's unbelievably useful.
00:15:18.420
And then I would also say he's sensitive about his appearance, more sensitive than normal.
00:15:32.560
And it might be a consequence of some higher levels of negative emotion as well.
00:15:38.260
And so what would I do with someone who's more sensitive than...
00:15:51.740
This is one way of inoculating people against typical bullying responses is to work out
00:16:00.140
a description of all the bullying tricks and phrases and to have the person develop a defense
00:16:11.680
Something jokey, but at least to expose yourself to it.
00:16:23.100
Your son needs help developing strategies for dealing with the most common bullying situations
00:16:30.660
And you'll have to get from him what people say that hurts his feelings.
00:16:36.080
And then you'll have to work with him to develop strategies of verbal response or attitude
00:16:46.540
Now, what you don't want him to do is to get down on himself, to isolate, to be irritable, to cry or lash out, because that'll just amplify the bullying.
00:16:59.140
Like, first of all, we should understand that every child gets bullied on the basis of their peculiarities.
00:17:11.600
If you don't have any obvious aberration in your appearance, well, the bullies will just make one up.
00:17:18.520
They'll give you a nickname that's derisive or they'll come up with something that's like a rhyme on your name.
00:17:27.720
And what they're looking for is an emotional reaction.
00:17:30.220
In the bully-bully-victim literature, you see that there are stable bullies and there are stable bully-victims.
00:17:38.580
And the stable bully-victim boys tend to respond emotionally when they're picked on.
00:17:45.460
If they can develop a defensive strategy, say, which and humor can be very useful in that regard.
00:17:54.020
Yeah, well, better even than pretending is to practice not being bothered to the point where you're actually not bothered.
00:18:04.660
And he'll go around poking at people until he finds someone that reacts.
00:18:09.380
And then that's the person that gets picked on.
00:18:16.360
And, you know, one of the things you might even try with him is to make a list of the insults and the insults that have been used against him and the insults that he's afraid of.
00:18:30.000
And practice delivering them to him so that he can learn to be resilient in their presence.
00:18:43.360
What are you going to do if someone calls you fat?
00:18:47.880
Like, how does that work for you if you get upset?
00:18:59.720
So, see, because the pretending, there's an element of deception in there.
00:19:04.160
There can be an element of self-deception in that.
00:19:06.780
It does hurt, though, when you, like, it's hard to, I don't, didn't you, you got bullied, right?
00:19:17.740
And they're not usually, they're usually the ones that show weakness, honestly.
00:19:24.780
And so, so practicing stoicism in the face of provocation is a useful strategy.
00:19:43.160
Kindergarten, I think, you told us, go find the biggest kid in the class and punch him.
00:19:49.360
And he, he said this, weren't you in front of other parents?
00:19:53.700
No, I said, I think, I think, you find the biggest, ugliest kid in the, in the classroom
00:19:58.140
and then hit him on the back of the head with a toy.
00:20:07.440
But in grade two, this girl came out of the bathroom.
00:20:10.120
I remember, I was standing against the wall, leaning against the wall and kicked me.
00:20:15.400
And I turned around and I kicked her back as hard as I could.
00:20:27.260
Well, there is some real utility also in helping your children learn to defend themselves and
00:20:33.440
to discussing very carefully with them the conditions under which they are allowed to
00:20:40.060
or also morally required to defend themselves or sometimes to defend other people.
00:20:48.400
If someone is picking on you, if someone hits you and you're a kid, well, what's the
00:20:55.700
Well, the people who are anti-violence, let's say, is you should go tell a teacher.
00:21:01.140
It's like, do you remember what it's like to be a kid?
00:21:03.680
Going to tell the teacher, that can be social suicide, right?
00:21:07.920
Because it indicates to the bullies in particular that you can't handle your own affairs and that
00:21:16.640
Although, I do think pretending or actually just being unaffected by it, like, I don't
00:21:31.420
Because they're not interested in bothering someone that's like...
00:21:33.120
So, Dan Olwius, who's a Scandinavian expert on bullying, and he reduced the incidence of
00:21:42.540
And there's a book, which you can take a look at, everybody who's listening, called Bullying,
00:21:53.700
He thought of them as prototypical fascists, which was why he was concerned with them.
00:21:59.620
Olwius' analysis of the bully dynamic is dead on.
00:22:03.540
And one of the things he also helped schools, parents, and children work through is the
00:22:08.380
conditions under which you are allowed to seek adult authority if you're a child.
00:22:14.600
So, his definition of bullying was that bullying was aggression utilized when there was a mismatch
00:22:24.060
So, if there's two kids of approximately equal physical size and stature, let's say, in development,
00:22:28.720
and they're having an altercation, that's not bullying.
00:22:31.480
Bullying is when there's three 10-year-olds against an 8-year-old, right?
00:22:38.140
And then, if you observe that as a child, you have the moral right to intervene on behalf
00:22:44.520
of the person who's being bullied with an adult, mostly because you're serving the cause
00:22:51.680
And so, Olwius was one of these dim-witted, like, hyper-agreeable social worker-type interveners
00:23:03.420
Violence in defense of yourself or of your principles or of someone weaker is often admirable.
00:23:09.660
And your children have to learn how to, they have to learn how to think that through.
00:23:13.820
You know, and, you know, your response, for example, when you got kicked, what would you,
00:23:21.720
It's like, well, that's not real helpful when your daughter's-
00:23:31.820
And you and I, and Julian as well, like, I practiced teaching you how to punch so that
00:23:38.020
And we discussed the times when that was necessary, right?
00:23:50.580
Every time I talk about it with my husband, he's like, it's like, bowling.
00:23:55.860
My thumb used to get stuck in the bowling ball.
00:23:58.200
It's like, why is everything you say depressing?
00:24:11.900
As a spouse, a parent, or a leader, people count on you.
00:24:14.780
But if you're constantly tired, unfocused, and just not feeling like yourself, how can you
00:24:22.500
Merrick is a premier health optimization platform that uses comprehensive lab work, not guesswork,
00:24:27.540
to uncover what's really going on in your body.
00:24:30.020
Hormones, thyroid inflammation, nutrient levels, the markers that matter.
00:24:33.700
Their expert clinical teams build a personalized, research-backed plan just for you, whether it's
00:24:38.140
lifestyle changes, supplements, or prescription treatments.
00:24:41.080
When you know what's going on inside, you can leave with clarity, show up with energy,
00:24:45.280
and stay sharp for your family, your team, and yourself.
00:24:47.920
Head over to merrickhealth.com and use code Peterson for 10% off to join their guided optimization
00:24:57.280
Stop guessing, start leading, and start with Merrick Health.
00:25:11.320
My husband and I are parents to two young adult ladies, 18 and 24 years old, and when we're
00:25:21.540
asked for guidance about dating, we feel like the generation gap right now is more like a
00:25:30.020
For example, social media, how the people connect today, different sexual norms.
00:25:39.620
There are situations that have been brought up that we never encountered when we were in the
00:25:47.600
We're often hard-pressed to offer really good advice.
00:25:53.200
I was wondering if you would have any thoughts on that.
00:26:01.960
Well, everything I say is going to get me in trouble on this regard.
00:26:09.320
So, the first thing I would say is that alcohol is a dating danger that's always underestimated
00:26:22.180
It isn't unreasonable to point out that there would be zero date rape, essentially, if alcohol
00:26:36.760
So, when you're, and then I would say as well, when you're talking to your daughters, that
00:26:43.400
their right and obligation to say no should be exemplified, should be encouraged and strengthened.
00:27:05.920
It's a deep characteristic of femininity among human beings.
00:27:12.620
It's not the case for all of our primate relatives, by the way.
00:27:22.340
Cross-culturally, they like men that are about four years older.
00:27:25.240
And so, you might ask yourself, what's the female mating strategy, human female mating
00:27:30.720
And the human female mating strategy is to watch men compete with one another and peel
00:27:38.640
And it's a brilliant strategy because what women are essentially doing is thinking, well,
00:27:44.140
the best man will win in competitions with other men.
00:27:47.420
And she sits back and watches and picks the guy who emerges victorious.
00:27:55.340
And that's, and so men compete for status in large part to attract women.
00:28:02.060
The status that men have among men, the most viable marker of that status is their competence.
00:28:10.900
And men will grant other competent men's status.
00:28:14.020
And then women are fortunate because they can use that as a marker for finding a competent
00:28:19.360
The question is, what confers status among women in the opinions of men?
00:28:35.120
And because the typical high status guy, for example, so a desirable guy who faces no, is
00:28:46.300
either going to depart because he's interested in exploitation, in which case good riddance,
00:28:51.700
or he's going to think, huh, what's up with her?
00:28:57.440
You know, I'm a high status guy and she says no.
00:29:00.560
Well, that indicates that she's, that's her indication of status.
00:29:05.840
Now, I should also point out, here's something to talk to your daughters about that's very
00:29:21.340
Um, that's the whole kind of dark hippie ethos from the 1960s.
00:29:26.900
And then there's the more, there's the mating strategy that's more oriented towards long-term
00:29:32.000
committed relationships, which you might well define as marriage.
00:29:37.300
So, now imagine that you do a personality assessment of the men who pursue those variables, those
00:29:45.720
So, is the, who are the guys that are after short-term sexual gratification?
00:29:55.980
They're Machiavellian, so they use their language to manipulate.
00:30:00.740
They have a tilt towards psychopathy, so they're predatory parasites.
00:30:12.640
And so, when, when women participate in that easy sexual revolution, let's say, that's short-term
00:30:21.260
pleasure focused, they throw themselves into the hands of the worst men.
00:30:27.940
And so, it's much better to play a long-term game.
00:30:31.240
Now, if your daughters are having a hard time finding someone who wants to play along, well,
00:30:36.980
then I would say, they're well advised to not be unhappy that men who are irritated because
00:30:47.480
they don't get what they want right now have left.
00:30:52.240
Because that is not a person you want to be around.
00:30:58.520
The, the, the, all of the, all of the evidence converges on this very, uh, solidly.
00:31:10.780
So, this is, I went through this kind of thing 10 years ago.
00:31:16.200
And the dating experience has changed since then, but not, not a ton.
00:31:22.360
I would say that, you've told me this before, and this was very helpful, figure out what
00:31:31.180
Like, this is probably more relevant for your 24-year-old because your 18-year-old is 18.
00:31:43.480
Figure out those, those serious questions and make sure they know the answers to those questions.
00:31:51.160
So, what I found helpful is you can download a dating app.
00:31:58.380
But, Tinder was, was pretty rough back then, too.
00:32:01.200
But, you can meet people online, generate a report to see if you get along.
00:32:06.340
Then, you can say, I want to go for a coffee date.
00:32:09.240
So, coffee date doesn't have the alcohol problem.
00:32:13.440
You can tell right away, especially if you don't have alcohol to numb yourself, if you dislike
00:32:19.160
And then, you can get up and leave, which is totally fine.
00:32:21.780
But, if you like the person, you can pretty much have the conversation about what you
00:32:28.260
And, if that scares that person away, then it's good that they're gone anyway.
00:32:32.200
So, you might as well encourage them to go out and meet people.
00:32:35.980
You might have, they might have to go on like 20 of these coffee days to meet someone who
00:32:40.700
goes, hey, we want the same life, like, same things in life.
00:32:46.760
There's a bunch of things about that that are very important.
00:32:49.260
So, talk to your daughters, precisely as you said, about what they want.
00:33:01.620
So, now you know, well, now you have a criteria by which to judge potential partners.
00:33:07.740
If they don't, well, maybe they have a better offer.
00:33:12.060
And, if they don't, it's like, don't be upset that they leave.
00:33:15.640
You're thrilled that they leave because the last thing you want is the wrong person.
00:33:21.000
Talk to your daughters so they have a plan that gives them a template for acceptance and
00:33:31.100
Not arbitrarily and meanly, and maybe even to look beyond their immediate reaction at
00:33:38.940
things more fundamental like shared goals, right?
00:33:41.940
Because there are people you meet that you're not necessarily so attracted to immediately,
00:33:49.840
So, that shared vision of the future is extremely important.
00:33:52.780
Then, the next thing is slow, safe situations to mutually get to know each other.
00:34:01.700
And certainly, the initial coffee date in the daytime, somewhere public?
00:34:12.240
Here's another rule of thumb for women, I would say.
00:34:14.520
And I also think it's true for men, but it's more desperately necessary for women.
00:34:19.440
Don't do anything physically with anyone that you wouldn't have a conversation with them
00:34:28.180
Because you might say, well, at what rate should we pursue intimacy?
00:34:31.780
Well, if you're pursuing physical intimacy before you can have a conversation about what
00:34:36.520
you're doing, you're probably putting the cart before the horse.
00:34:42.880
You know why life feels so chaotic and meaningless for so many people?
00:34:45.920
It's because we refuse to confront the real vices within ourselves.
00:34:53.220
They're deep-rooted sins that create genuine suffering and inner chaos.
00:34:56.980
That's why this month's St. Michael the Archangel Challenge on Hallow matters.
00:35:00.500
It's a 40-day commitment to spiritual warfare, not comfortable self-improvement,
00:35:04.120
but real confrontation with what's darkest in yourself through daily prayer, fasting,
00:35:09.600
This isn't about surface-level behavior modification.
00:35:11.920
It's about going to war against disorder within you and society.
00:35:15.660
You'll walk alongside St. Francis of Assisi, one of the most radical figures in Christian
00:35:19.480
history, a man who chose poverty and embraced suffering because he understood that drawing
00:35:24.300
closer to God means detaching from everything that isn't him.
00:35:27.620
The challenge runs from August 13th to Michaelmas on September 29th, a feast day celebrating
00:35:34.460
If you want to confront what's darkest in yourself and emerge with something redemptive,
00:35:37.920
something sacred, then take up your cross, join the challenge, and walk the path.
00:35:41.660
It's not easy, but it's necessary, and you'll be stronger for it.
00:35:44.880
Get Hallow three months free at hallow.com slash Jordan.
00:35:51.920
Next, we have a more general question about AI, and we're joined by Robert in California.
00:36:04.100
The first part, they're both actually about LLMs, like chat GPT and stuff like that.
00:36:08.540
I was wondering, first of all, whether you use them yourself, and if so, what you make
00:36:12.560
of the experience, and if you don't, why you don't.
00:36:15.280
And second of all, I was wondering what you thought the social consequences of their widespread
00:36:20.640
Do you think people are basically going to offload lots of their thinking to these devices,
00:36:24.700
or do you think there's going to be some kind of rebellion?
00:36:27.500
Okay, the first, let's answer the first part of that question.
00:36:33.600
I use chat GPT, I use Grok, and I have a system that one of my compatriots built with me and
00:36:41.040
for me that's based on the King James Bible, and that also incorporates a bunch of the things
00:36:46.700
that I've written and lectured on that I can use as a conversational partner when I'm
00:36:55.860
They're like having a research team at your fingertips.
00:37:00.780
You have to torture the Woker models, chat GPT and Grok to some degree, into telling the
00:37:07.480
truth by specifying your questions very carefully and laying down rather impolite restrictions.
00:37:14.500
But you probably have to do that with people when you're trying to get the truth out of them
00:37:18.000
too, rather than some just polite and agreeable response.
00:37:20.780
I think they're stunningly remarkable machines, and they've been ridiculously useful for me
00:37:30.480
When I'm writing, I have like three LLMs open, and I'm just conferring with them all the time.
00:37:36.640
I ask them for advice on how I'm formulating paragraphs.
00:37:41.800
Now, having said that, I have this program that I've worked on with my son called Essay,
00:37:48.960
and we're trying to use Essay to teach people to write.
00:37:52.140
And when you teach them to write, you're teaching them to think.
00:37:55.540
And when you're learning to write and think, you're learning how to move your way through
00:38:01.040
And if you offload that all to an LLM, then you're just a hollow shell, and you have no
00:38:06.940
idea who you are, where you're going, or what you want.
00:38:11.720
I mean, I was just talking to my son the other day about his experiences communicating about
00:38:20.560
And he talked about a situation that one of his friends was involved in where they were
00:38:24.080
taking a course where they were required to write essays and to give feedback to one another.
00:38:28.900
And everyone who was taking the course used ChatGPT to write the essays and to provide the
00:38:36.200
And so all you really got from the course was bots communicating with one another.
00:38:40.780
And so people can use the LLMs to evade their responsibility and to lie and to deceive and
00:38:55.320
So I would also say that the LLMs, in my experience, have been very useful in precise
00:39:04.320
proportion to how carefully you specify the question and assess the answer.
00:39:09.040
And so they can also teach you to ask extremely careful and well-formulated questions and to
00:39:26.700
If your intent is to rely on technology to look smarter than you are and to gain a bunch of
00:39:33.620
undeserved rewards in the short term, it's going to be a complete bloody catastrophe.
00:39:38.380
If your aim is to sharpen your thinking, to learn, to interrogate, to question properly,
00:39:45.980
and to make the sharpest and most well-informed arguments you possibly can, then that's open
00:39:52.940
And I don't think that's much different than most technologies.
00:39:55.880
It's like the more powerful the technology, the more you can use it for good and the more
00:40:02.500
And one of the things I've noted for and tried to teach people for 20 years is, as our technological
00:40:12.140
prowess increases, the consequences of our morality or immortality or immorality expand.
00:40:22.140
And that's the curse and the benefit of technology.
00:40:25.680
Now, there's an additional issue that we should address too, which is the alignment problem.
00:40:31.000
How do we know that the LLMs are operating according to the proper moral principles when
00:40:43.100
Well, part of that can be dealt with by extremely careful questioning and critical thought.
00:40:53.480
But this is also why we've been experimenting with our own large language models.
00:40:58.200
Because my guess is, is that we're going to have to train them on something like the
00:41:06.920
Like, there's not much difference in training an LLM and educating a young person.
00:41:14.220
Like, if you train the LLM on broad consensus across every possible source of information,
00:41:22.880
you're going to tilt them towards a present focused view and something that looks quite
00:41:30.320
So, and that's exactly the same with young people.
00:41:34.640
Well, a classic humanities education, a classic education in the deep works of the Western
00:41:42.200
tradition provides them with a defense against ideological possession.
00:41:48.520
Well, why would it be any different with the LLMs?
00:41:52.920
I want, and I've talked to people who develop LLMs, although we haven't made enough headway
00:41:58.480
on this front yet, to train systems on classic works and to make that the core of their ethos.
00:42:06.700
And so, you know, with any luck, we'll work that out over the next five or six years.
00:42:13.000
That's what we're trying to do with Peterson Academy.
00:42:15.800
We've talked about this a lot is people are probably going to be split into two camps.
00:42:19.980
There's going to be the people that know how to utilize LLMs because it takes, it reduces
00:42:25.860
your work depending on what you do to like 10% or eliminates your job.
00:42:33.780
Just being able to Google, I was like the internet, we all have access to the internet.
00:42:40.380
And Grok, I use primarily Grok, just squishes three days of research into like 15 seconds.
00:42:51.800
So if people aren't using it, they need to start using it and learn how to use it because
00:42:59.100
But there was this funny, I'll send it to you after, but it was this video going around
00:43:03.820
Instagram and it's this guy and he's like on his chair, like a monkey going like, eat,
00:43:08.620
eat, eat, like typing things into Grok and then, or, or an LLM and it's spitting out a
00:43:15.680
And then he sends that and then he gets a response and he's like all happy about it
00:43:21.500
Unfortunately, I feel like there's probably going to be a group of people that use it to
00:43:25.620
enhance themselves and a group of people that won't learn how to write or communicate that'll
00:43:37.600
Well, and your comments about Peterson Academy are relevant with regard to classical education.
00:43:44.120
If you're going to use an LLM intelligently, you better be well-informed and morally grounded
00:43:53.860
But, but of course that's the case because the more powerful tools you have at your disposal,
00:43:59.760
the more your stupidity will magnify itself in consequence of the misuse of those tools.
00:44:09.100
One of the reasons I got attracted to Carl Jung's thought was because in the aftermath
00:44:16.120
of World War II and our development of the hydrogen bomb, he pointed out that the true
00:44:23.020
danger that confronted humanity wasn't the bomb itself.
00:44:27.100
It was the ideological foolishness that would lead us to use it.
00:44:31.100
And that the development of the psyche, the development of wisdom was as, as, as your technological
00:44:40.820
power increases, the requirement for you to be wise increases proportionately.
00:44:49.700
And I think the LLMs have really, they've been another tremendous example of the necessity
00:44:57.980
And that's a very, you find that moral grounding in consequence of being properly educated.
00:45:03.480
And that is what we're trying to do on Peterson Academy.
00:45:09.400
So up last, we have a recorded message from Diego in Paraguay.
00:45:18.100
Thank you very much for this opportunity to ask a question that is very important for me.
00:45:52.940
element of the algorithm, and you can really see this in the degeneration of YouTube, especially
00:45:58.020
over the last two years, is that the algorithm maximizes for grip of attention.
00:46:02.880
And fair enough, because why wouldn't you want to be given things that you want to attend
00:46:09.920
But the problem comes as the maximization of grip of attention becomes shorter and shorter
00:46:17.520
Like, pathological addiction is actually the hijacking of attention by short-term considerations.
00:46:25.060
So the shorter term across which your attention span is being manipulated, the more pathological
00:46:33.440
And you can see a race to the bottom in the social media world.
00:46:50.700
Well, look, you fight against that the same way you fight against immaturity as you socialize
00:46:57.380
What you're actually doing when you socialize children is you expand the time frame over
00:47:06.920
So they're able to maintain attentional focus for longer and longer spans of time while they're
00:47:15.560
doing effortful things that culminate in a delayed reward.
00:47:30.600
That's why regular dinner times, meal times together are very useful without phones so
00:47:38.720
And you can encourage your children to attend for long periods of time by listening to them
00:47:48.680
formulate their thoughts and engaging in conversation with them.
00:47:52.420
You can do the same thing by reading to them, right?
00:47:57.080
I mean, this is dependent on the individual child, but there are four-year-old kids who
00:48:05.300
can listen to a story for an hour and who can handle a pretty complex juvenile novel by the
00:48:16.780
Interact with your children in a manner that requires sustained attention for longer and
00:48:25.580
And so board games can do that too, especially more complex board games.
00:48:29.660
So you want to engage as a family in sophisticated enterprises that don't fragment attention down
00:48:50.980
She has a phone already because she's split between two houses.
00:48:59.800
I haven't given my kids screens before the age of three, like including movies and things
00:49:05.440
just because you can see a two-year-old glued to a screen and you're like, that cannot be
00:49:14.660
And it's this little machine that little kids can operate by themselves.
00:49:18.140
And you get these cards that are either music or stories and you can stick the card in
00:49:22.440
A little graphic shows up, but it's not a screen.
00:49:25.560
It's like some lights that move around a tiny bit.
00:49:30.440
And then they can listen to stories and things.
00:49:32.620
So just as a practical tech piece, I really like the Yodo.
00:49:37.560
And then for hyper-stimulation too, we use kind of a Montessori approach.
00:49:48.300
Just a couple and you can swap them out every couple of weeks so they get new toys every
00:49:53.360
But I think avoiding the hyper-stimulation when they're really little helps a lot.
00:49:58.460
And then delaying, like you just talked to Jonathan Haidt, right?
00:50:01.640
Delaying social media, delaying phones, delaying screens.
00:50:04.880
And Haidt has talked a lot about too, about the fact that many states, I think he said 13
00:50:10.260
states already, maybe it's more than that, have decided to make schools phone-free zones.
00:50:33.580
But that constant fragmented attention, the fundamental problem is that the AI algorithms are going
00:50:44.280
to optimize for the grip of short-term attention.
00:50:46.600
And that's just, there's no difference between that and addiction.
00:50:49.980
That's just addiction by a different definition.
00:50:53.640
And so encourage your children to pursue processes, pursue activities that require the investment
00:51:19.060
Thank you guys so much for watching or listening today.
00:51:21.920
Hit the like and subscribe button so you can be sure to catch all the episodes if you enjoy
00:51:34.540
Do you have a question you'd like us to explore?
00:51:37.720
Share it with us at the link in the video's description.