The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Aim at a Star - A 12 Rules for Life Lecture

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:12.740 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

00:00:20.100 With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.

00:00:27.420 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.

00:00:35.360 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.

00:00:41.780 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.

00:00:47.460 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.

00:00:57.420 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 26 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.

00:01:04.480 I'm Mikayla Peterson, dad's daughter and collaborator, eldest child, and basically the backbone of this family.

00:01:11.400 Nah, that's actually mom, who, speaking of which, is still doing better and better.

00:01:16.300 I'm fasting again. I swear I don't have an eating disorder.

00:01:19.300 I can't get enough of this fasting.

00:01:21.940 Clarity of mind.

00:01:23.700 Sharpened jawline.

00:01:25.240 Yes, please.

00:01:26.860 Increased energy, cancer prevention.

00:01:29.180 Seriously, seriously, seriously recommend.

00:01:32.400 But use salt and water when you're fasting.

00:01:34.660 Don't just drink regular water or you will feel terrible.

00:01:38.500 Salt your water.

00:01:39.400 And if you're on a ketogenic diet, that'll make it easier.

00:01:41.760 If you're not on a ketogenic diet, you should be.

00:01:45.160 It's not a fad.

00:01:46.720 I was talking to mom today.

00:01:47.780 Hey, mom, isn't it cool that I found out my body fat percentage was a little bit high and I did a week-long fast and I lost 10 pounds?

00:01:55.960 You know, I was like looking, kind of looking for a pat on the back, I guess, for having self-control.

00:02:01.440 Because doing a week-long fast is kind of intense.

00:02:04.260 And she was like, yeah, that's what happens when you fast for a week.

00:02:08.020 Happened to Jordan, too.

00:02:10.700 I gave up looking for a pat on the back anyway.

00:02:12.800 She's very difficult to impress. 0.99

00:02:15.380 If you are a boss and you only eat meat, fasting is even easier.

00:02:19.260 I'm literally transforming into a lion, if you're interested at all.

00:02:23.140 I'm doing Instagram and Facebook and YouTube lives throughout this fast, 8.30 p.m. ET usually.

00:02:30.360 I'm also writing a how-to guide for the diet for people who want to get fitter or feel better or people with autoimmune disorders or mood disorders

00:02:38.380 and exactly what it is we do, what to expect when you get on it.

00:02:42.200 They'll be up for subscribers on ThinkSpot or available on my website, but I'll keep everyone posted.

00:02:46.620 If you haven't heard of ThinkSpot, it's the social media platform Dad's involved with that won't be unnecessarily censored.

00:02:54.500 It has a ton of functionalities I haven't seen anywhere else, like podcast annotation.

00:02:58.540 Head over to ThinkSpot.com and sign up to see what it's all about.

00:03:01.900 It's being unveiled, finally, September 30th.

00:03:05.580 And the first people who signed up will be allowed in.

00:03:08.100 Fancy, huh?

00:03:09.200 An intellectual platform that won't be censored.

00:03:12.480 Take that, Google and Facebook.

00:03:14.700 This is a podcast from Rochester, New York, recorded on September 5th, 2018, titled

00:03:20.040 Aim at a Star, a 12 Rules for Life Lecture.

00:03:22.880 Well, that's very nice of you.

00:03:43.540 So, I haven't done a talk for two weeks.

00:03:53.000 It seems like a long time, although it's strange.

00:03:55.260 We've been on the road for so long now.

00:03:56.980 It's basically since January that this seems like normal life, weirdly enough.

00:04:02.920 So, it's nice to be back and it's good to be here.

00:04:06.140 I thought I might update you a little bit about what I'm up to, apart from doing this tour.

00:04:13.560 So, my wife and I, Tammy, she's somewhere in the audience, ensconced somewhere in the audience. 0.79

00:04:18.460 She's been traveling along helping me out and making sure I don't do anything too dreadfully stupid along the way. 0.99

00:04:24.040 Which is one of the reasons that you should marry someone sensible, or at least more sensible than you, if you can find someone more sensible than you, who would marry you. 0.98

00:04:32.200 It's not that easy, necessarily.

00:04:35.840 Yeah.

00:04:36.380 That's why I think it was Nietzsche who said that, that being loved by someone should immediately disenchant you with them.

00:04:43.960 So, right.

00:04:45.500 Woody Allen had a variation of that.

00:04:47.000 He said, I'd never belong to a club that would have me as a member.

00:04:50.920 So, it's the same kind of idea.

00:04:53.700 Anyways, we've been traveling around and I think we've gone to 65 cities so far.

00:04:58.380 So, that's been really something.

00:05:01.820 But August was a bit of a break.

00:05:04.560 I only really had two talks in August, both in Central Canada and Saskatchewan.

00:05:09.120 And so, I've had a chance to step back a little bit and think.

00:05:14.320 Some of you, I have a Patreon account.

00:05:16.960 And the reason I'm telling you that is because I'm devoting the money from that Patreon account, or some of the money from that Patreon account, to a project that you might be interested in.

00:05:25.740 So, I've hired some people to work on an online university.

00:05:29.100 We've sort of expanded the scope of it, though.

00:05:31.920 We want it to be kind of a universal education system.

00:05:36.080 So, I've hired three really smart people, young people.

00:05:39.360 And they're working really hard on that.

00:05:41.520 And I would say we're ahead of schedule.

00:05:43.300 So, that's pretty cool because projects are never ahead of schedule.

00:05:46.660 So, that's fun.

00:05:48.580 Part of what we're trying to do is we've used Wikipedia.

00:05:52.620 We've mapped Wikipedia to kind of get a sense of the general knowledge structure.

00:05:57.020 You know, because Wikipedia covers almost everything.

00:05:59.340 And it's not exactly easy to tell what the structure of knowledge is.

00:06:03.600 But the work is already done with Wikipedia, essentially.

00:06:05.900 And there are maps of Wikipedia that sort of lay out the structure of knowledge as such.

00:06:10.720 And we're trying to figure out how we can build accreditation processes, accreditation and questioning processes, to go along with the knowledge structure that's associated with Wikipedia.

00:06:21.040 And also to build multimedia on top of that.

00:06:24.060 So, imagine that if you're interested in a topic like solar radiation or something like that.

00:06:29.860 Maybe you can think of a more interesting topic than that.

00:06:32.220 But for some reason that popped into my head that you'd be able to go to the site and you could find a 30-second video on solar radiation.

00:06:40.640 And like a five-minute video and a 15-minute video and a half-an-hour video.

00:06:43.960 Depending on the level of resolution that you wanted to, the level of resolution for the knowledge that you wanted to develop.

00:06:52.380 And that each of the educational materials would be set up in a competitive manner.

00:06:57.840 So that people could submit 30-second videos and five-minute videos and 15-minute videos.

00:07:02.080 And then they'd compete for popularity so that the good ones would rise to the top.

00:07:05.940 We want to set up a platform where we can devote most of the money that the platform generates to the people who are doing the content creation.

00:07:13.020 Because then, hopefully, we could foster a whole infrastructure of content creators.

00:07:18.040 And then we want to associate that with a questioning process.

00:07:22.560 So that once you develop your knowledge.

00:07:24.480 And this might apply to anything that you do on the web.

00:07:26.920 This would be a nice thing to do.

00:07:28.560 So that you could watch whatever you're watching that would teach you something.

00:07:32.460 And you could pick whatever time frame you have to learn something.

00:07:36.560 You know, so maybe you want to take a 30-second break.

00:07:38.340 And you could learn something in 30 seconds.

00:07:39.780 And then you'd get three or four questions that would test your knowledge of that.

00:07:43.020 And then all the questions you got right would be stored so that you'd have a bank of what you already knew.

00:07:47.840 And all the questions you got wrong would be stored so they could be represented to you.

00:07:51.720 And we're going to associate all the questions that you get wrong with a source.

00:07:56.560 Either video or text or whatever it might be.

00:07:58.780 That would tell you how to answer the question that you got wrong.

00:08:01.940 And so one of the things we've thought about is, you know, most of the time in education.

00:08:06.020 If you take a test, it's mostly punitive.

00:08:08.440 It's mostly punitive, eh?

00:08:09.520 Like maybe you do real well on the test and that's good.

00:08:12.020 But maybe you don't do so well.

00:08:13.960 And then every time you get something wrong, it's like you get whacked on the head with a stick. 0.59

00:08:17.940 And there's some utility in being whacked on the head with a stick.

00:08:20.540 But it's not the best, necessarily the best educational technology, let's say.

00:08:25.860 But imagine that you could take a multiple choice test and every time you got something wrong,

00:08:30.500 all that happened was that you were instantly provided with the information that would enable you to determine why it was that you got it wrong.

00:08:37.400 So you would never have to get it wrong again because that's really the point, right?

00:08:40.760 And so those are the ideas that we've been working on for about the last three months, I guess.

00:08:47.080 That's not all of them.

00:08:48.420 We're trying to figure out how to teach people to write online.

00:08:50.880 That's hard.

00:08:51.500 Like teaching people to write is really hard because it's so difficult to grade essays, especially if they're bad.

00:08:57.240 You know, so, well, it's really true.

00:08:58.700 It's way easier.

00:08:59.660 A student will write an essay and hand it in to me and I think, Jesus, you know, it'd be a lot easier just to burn this and write another essay.

00:09:06.520 It'd be easier than grading it, you know, because you think, here's how you can make a mistake.

00:09:11.640 These are the mistakes you can make if you're a bad writer, okay?

00:09:14.660 Use the wrong word.

00:09:16.380 And so often what people will do is use a word that they don't understand.

00:09:20.320 So it's a large word and they don't know how to use it colloquially.

00:09:23.420 But it sounds like a word that someone intelligent would use.

00:09:26.320 So they'll use that word, but badly.

00:09:28.460 And that works if the person that you're writing to doesn't know the word any better than you do or maybe even worse.

00:09:36.740 But if they know it better than you do, it's actually not a very good trick.

00:09:40.420 So you can use the wrong word.

00:09:42.700 Then you can put it in a badly constructed phrase.

00:09:46.060 And then you can jumble up the phrases so that you don't make a good sentence.

00:09:49.380 And so then you can put the sentences in random order so that your paragraphs are just broken haphazardly.

00:09:56.820 Then you can sequence the paragraphs badly so that your argument doesn't make any sense.

00:10:01.240 It helps if you throw in contradictions as well.

00:10:03.580 So you say one thing, one page.

00:10:05.100 And then you say something completely different, the other page.

00:10:07.760 That's what postmodernists actually teach their students to do.

00:10:12.020 Yeah.

00:10:12.540 Partly by accident, partly on purpose.

00:10:16.460 And then to top it all off, you can make your whole essay not really come to any point.

00:10:22.140 And so those are the levels of error.

00:10:24.600 And if you have a spectacularly bad essay, then it fails at every single one of those levels of analysis.

00:10:31.120 And then it's just a hell of a thing to grade because it's, well, what did I do wrong?

00:10:35.360 It's like, no, you got the question backwards.

00:10:39.220 So we're trying to figure out how we could teach people to write online.

00:10:44.340 And, you know, we thought maybe we could set up competitive writing exercises so someone could write a paragraph and submit it.

00:10:50.500 And then somebody else could try to write a better paragraph.

00:10:53.320 And everyone could vote on that.

00:10:55.340 And then someone could write a better paragraph.

00:10:57.040 And then you could see how the paragraphs would develop.

00:10:59.200 You could do that at the sentence level as well.

00:11:01.080 Well, we thought maybe we could also break books up into paragraphs and then present people with paragraphs that would be informative.

00:11:08.120 But then have them summarize the paragraphs and have those rated by other people and have other people submit better paragraphs.

00:11:13.860 And we'd like to introduce an element of competition into the writing process.

00:11:18.380 Because that's another thing that I think can make acquiring information exciting.

00:11:24.060 You know, you can track your progress.

00:11:25.560 So you'd be able to track your progress in all these different knowledge domains.

00:11:28.220 You'd be able to see how fast you're learning.

00:11:29.700 And you'd be able to compete with other people to see how good you could become, say, at writing.

00:11:34.860 We want to do the same thing with people's ability to speak.

00:11:37.820 So they should be able to upload videos and have them rated in the same way.

00:11:41.680 So, anyways, we're hard at it, man.

00:11:45.040 And so that's one of the projects that I'm working on.

00:11:49.600 I'm working on another project with a friend of mine in L.A.

00:11:53.760 And what he's trying to do is to see if he can pull the Democrats back to the center, somewhat to the center and away from the radical leftists.

00:12:02.960 And so we're actually having a fair bit of success with that, as far as I can tell.

00:12:06.820 He's trained about 22 different Democratic candidates in elections across the country.

00:12:11.220 So that's pretty cool.

00:12:12.740 And his experience has been, which is quite interesting, is that he's talked to, I think, 85 candidates at different levels of government across the United States in the Democratic Party.

00:12:21.520 And he hasn't found one person who's genuinely interested in identity politics if they're talking one-on-one.

00:12:27.460 And so that's really something cool, eh?

00:12:30.460 Because, and it might be, because we don't know what tiny minority of people are really committed to the radical view of the Marxist postmodernists.

00:12:39.820 Even in the universities, it's not an overwhelming majority.

00:12:42.600 It's quite a very noisy and well-organized and reprehensible minority. 1.00

00:12:47.200 But in general population, it's a much smaller percentage of the population.

00:12:51.160 And so it might be, and I think this is actually the case, that people are much more moderate in their views than you might think.

00:12:59.500 But they're afraid to express moderate views because they're worried that they'll be attacked by the people who are immoderate and silenced one at a time.

00:13:07.320 And I'm seeing this in Canada, too, you know.

00:13:09.480 I've talked to the Conservative Party leaders, particularly in Canada.

00:13:13.000 And our Conservatives are sort of like your moderate Republicans or maybe your centrist Democrats.

00:13:18.520 Like Canada's entire political spectrum is sort of shifted to the left and sort of mashed into the middle.

00:13:24.760 Although we do have Democratic Socialists in the form of the NDP.

00:13:28.160 They never form federal governments, though.

00:13:30.260 But the Conservatives are quite afraid to be Conservative and to espouse Conservative viewpoints

00:13:36.060 because they're afraid they'll be targeted as individuals and mobbed.

00:13:39.520 You know, and they have reason to be afraid of that, I would say.

00:13:42.320 Although, if you're a Conservative and you're afraid, it's like you're done, right?

00:13:46.280 You've lost.

00:13:47.280 It's not a good thing.

00:13:48.520 So, anyways, we're trying hard to figure out a way to pull the Democratic Party,

00:13:56.480 either to pull it back to the centre or to indicate that it's actually more centrist than you might think

00:14:03.640 given the way that it presents itself and the way it's being covered.

00:14:06.940 And one of the things he's realised is that there's no real central messaging apparatus in the Democratic Party

00:14:13.280 and there wasn't a coherent central narrative.

00:14:16.360 And maybe because of that, the more radical types have, because you have to have a story,

00:14:22.760 have filled the void where there was no story with their story.

00:14:27.240 And so there's that.

00:14:28.680 And then the other thing I've been thinking about with regards to that,

00:14:31.600 and I've talked to a lot of people in the media to find out if this might be true,

00:14:34.660 is, you know, we've really got this sense that things are polarising.

00:14:37.360 And I think there's some truth of that in the West.

00:14:40.460 But I think that part of the reason that things might be polarising

00:14:43.160 isn't necessarily because people have become more polarised in their political attitudes,

00:14:46.900 but because as the classic media is dying, which it definitely is, and very, very rapidly,

00:14:54.560 first of all, they're getting rid of their fact checkers.

00:14:56.600 That actually turns out to be a big problem if you're supposed to be, you know, reporting facts.

00:15:01.540 And they're able to pay people less and less,

00:15:04.200 and they're subject to much more competition from online writers and online video sources.

00:15:10.380 And so it seems to me that what they're likely doing as they spiral towards death,

00:15:15.560 more or less inevitably, because of the technological transformations,

00:15:19.300 is that they're more and more tempted to use clickbait headlines

00:15:24.720 and to exaggerate the degree of extremism on both ends of the political spectrum.

00:15:30.200 And I think that's warping the entire political dialogue.

00:15:33.320 So the other thing that we're trying to do is to get mainstream politicians

00:15:37.440 who are issues-oriented to talk with people in the intellectual dark web,

00:15:43.040 to get them online where they can do long-form interviews,

00:15:46.160 because that would be good too.

00:15:47.380 Because maybe you want to find out if your politicians can actually generate a coherent conversation for two hours, right?

00:15:54.020 That might be a precondition for electing them.

00:16:00.780 So, because one of the things I've been struck by over the last couple of years,

00:16:06.900 it's probably been three or four years,

00:16:08.580 is the hunger that exists in the general population for complex, long-form philosophical discussion.

00:16:15.200 It's like, who would have ever guessed that?

00:16:17.220 You know, I put up a series of biblical lectures a year ago,

00:16:20.580 and they're 15 lectures long, and they're long lectures,

00:16:23.780 and they're fairly dense, I would say, like most of my lectures.

00:16:27.020 And yet people, like I think the first one has two and a half million views,

00:16:31.020 something like that, which is, it's on the first sentence of Genesis.

00:16:34.580 It's like, what the hell are you people doing?

00:16:36.720 It's watching a two-hour lecture on the first sentence of Genesis.

00:16:41.240 It's like, if you presented that as a business plan to a media company,

00:16:44.800 you'd be like laughed out of town, you know?

00:16:47.360 So, but it's the case that people are paying attention, you know?

00:16:51.140 And they're watching on YouTube, but they're listening on podcasts as well.

00:16:54.940 And the podcasts have also opened up this long-form forum, right?

00:16:58.280 Because you're exercising, you're doing the dishes,

00:17:01.040 or you're driving your truck, or whatever you're doing.

00:17:03.560 You've got hours that you can spend listening.

00:17:05.620 It turns out that people will listen, and they'll listen to complex material.

00:17:08.520 So, the other thing that I think might have happened over the last 30 years 0.98

00:17:11.760 is that we've all convinced ourselves that we're stupider than we really are. 0.95

00:17:16.040 And the reason we've done that is because we've been communicating with each other 0.99

00:17:19.260 through broadcast television.

00:17:21.420 And broadcast television is really narrow in its bandwidth

00:17:24.040 because it's so expensive, right?

00:17:25.780 Like a minute of broadcast television 20 years ago was, or even now,

00:17:29.680 it's phenomenally expensive.

00:17:31.480 And so if you had a message, you had to compress it into this ridiculous form,

00:17:35.560 this tiny little form. 0.71

00:17:36.580 And you also had to assume that your audience was composed of clueless people

00:17:41.460 who had no memory.

00:17:42.740 Because you couldn't assume that your audience had seen anything else you'd ever done.

00:17:47.280 It was like presenting to someone with Alzheimer's disease.

00:17:50.220 So, you know, no attention span in Alzheimer's disease

00:17:53.120 is sort of the ideal TV audience in some sense.

00:17:56.760 Or not the ideal audience, but the inevitable audience given the technology.

00:18:01.040 When all of a sudden we have these long form technologies that enable,

00:18:05.920 well, they take the bandwidth limitation off audio material and video material.

00:18:11.040 And it turns out, well, people are way smarter than we thought.

00:18:13.800 And so that's really cool.

00:18:14.900 And hopefully, I'm hoping that the political dialogue in the next decade,

00:18:19.780 let's say, will be, those who engage in the political dialogue

00:18:22.940 will be forced to adopt the long form media

00:18:25.280 so that we can find out if they have a clue.

00:18:27.920 So I talked to Joe Rogan a couple of times about this,

00:18:31.020 about his three-hour interviews, you know,

00:18:32.840 because a three-hour interview, it's like,

00:18:34.500 that's a long interview, man.

00:18:35.960 By the time you're done with that, it's like,

00:18:39.100 you don't have any thoughts left.

00:18:41.120 If you had any to begin with, 0.98

00:18:42.480 they're all sucked out of your head. 0.98

00:18:43.940 They're done. 0.93

00:18:44.440 And I asked him how people coped with that.

00:18:48.160 And he said, well, some of his guests sort of ran out of steam at 45 minutes.

00:18:52.300 They're just out of ideas, you know.

00:18:54.020 And then other people can go on and on for, you know, the whole three hours

00:18:58.160 and hopefully in a relatively engaging manner.

00:19:00.900 And so it seems to me that that would be a good test, again,

00:19:03.940 for anybody who's seeking complex political office.

00:19:06.940 It's like, can you handle yourself in a spontaneous interview for three hours?

00:19:10.600 Or do you have to be handled so that everything that you say is pre-crafted

00:19:15.020 and pre-scripted?

00:19:16.500 Because that's just not good.

00:19:19.000 And so, let's see.

00:19:21.480 So is that everything?

00:19:22.720 I started writing my second book.

00:19:24.240 I'm about halfway through it.

00:19:25.760 So that's kind of cool.

00:19:32.640 I'm very happy about that.

00:19:34.440 I think this one has a white cover, the 12 Rules,

00:19:37.500 and I think the next one will have a black cover.

00:19:39.200 And so that'll be kind of a chaos and order thing.

00:19:41.700 And they'll make a good boxed set, I hope.

00:19:44.540 And so, yeah, kind of a yin and yang thing.

00:19:46.860 So that's kind of the idea.

00:19:48.620 And I've had the opportunity in all of these lectures

00:19:52.400 to develop my ideas further.

00:19:53.900 I'm going to do that a little bit more tonight.

00:19:56.120 So, and I'm off to speak at about 60 more cities,

00:20:01.240 I guess, between now and May.

00:20:02.860 So 20 in the U.S. in the next month,

00:20:05.260 and then 20 in Europe,

00:20:06.680 mostly Northern Europe and the U.K.

00:20:08.500 and then Australia and New Zealand,

00:20:10.660 and then in March and April back to Europe.

00:20:12.480 And then that'll be the end of this,

00:20:13.920 as far as I can tell.

00:20:15.420 And then I'm going to edit my book for four months,

00:20:17.860 and then I'm going to do a biblical series on Exodus,

00:20:21.480 which I'm really looking forward to,

00:20:23.180 because I really know that story,

00:20:24.400 and it's a hell of a story.

00:20:25.460 So that's the plan.

00:20:29.520 And we might run the online education system

00:20:35.580 through a tech incubator process in January and February

00:20:40.100 and see if we can get that company really, really rolling.

00:20:42.820 There's lots of people who are interested in it.

00:20:45.340 And so that should be exciting as well.

00:20:48.000 And that'll probably happen in San Francisco or L.A.

00:20:50.040 So the last thing that I've been working on,

00:20:54.880 I think, at the moment is,

00:20:56.560 I'm also thinking that it might be interesting

00:20:58.620 to have something like a two-day event in L.A.

00:21:01.680 I think in L.A., but I'm not sure exactly,

00:21:03.980 that would bring together a lot of the people

00:21:05.620 who are loosely associated with what Eric Weinstein called

00:21:09.060 the intellectual dark web,

00:21:10.700 to have a conversation about all the things

00:21:12.520 that we need to have a conversation about.

00:21:14.120 And I'd like to bring together musicians and comedians and thinkers.

00:21:19.220 I think that would be a nice combination.

00:21:21.580 And I had a debate with, four debates with Sam Harris,

00:21:25.580 and two of those are up on my YouTube channel now,

00:21:27.780 and the other two will be there in mid-September.

00:21:31.040 And we got pretty big audiences to those,

00:21:33.520 and so it looks like there's public interest in that kind of thing,

00:21:36.540 and so that would be fun to set up.

00:21:38.360 So I'm doing a preliminary investigation.

00:21:40.760 It might be interesting to see if I can find

00:21:43.380 intelligent, issues-oriented politicians, political people,

00:21:47.560 who are also capable of delivering a gripping speech

00:21:51.660 and an informative speech to include them in the mix.

00:21:56.020 So we'd like to make that a major cultural event.

00:21:59.300 And so...

00:22:00.760 And my son is getting married in the end of September,

00:22:05.520 so that's fun.

00:22:07.100 Yeah.

00:22:08.380 Okay.

00:22:08.940 So, all right, so I usually use,

00:22:12.880 I always use these opportunities to lecture

00:22:15.840 to develop my ideas further.

00:22:20.440 And so I'm going to try to do that again tonight.

00:22:23.400 I want to concentrate on two rules.

00:22:25.020 I'm going to concentrate on rule 10,

00:22:27.220 which is be precise in your speech,

00:22:29.280 and rule 1, which is stand up straight with your shoulders back.

00:22:32.440 And I'm going to try to weave them together a little bit.

00:22:34.560 And I'm going to use a theme,

00:22:37.540 because I usually sit...

00:22:39.360 Before I come out and do a lecture,

00:22:41.620 I sit in the green room, in the backstage,

00:22:44.820 and think, okay, there's some problem I'm addressing.

00:22:48.080 And I'm always working on some set of problems.

00:22:49.960 I'm always thinking about some set of problems.

00:22:51.820 So they're active in my mind.

00:22:52.860 It's like, what's the problem that I'm trying to address tonight?

00:22:56.620 What should I hit?

00:22:57.640 It's like an essay topic,

00:22:59.000 because if you're writing an essay,

00:23:00.120 this is a good thing to know if you have to write something,

00:23:02.280 is you should have a problem,

00:23:03.700 because what are you doing writing if you don't have a problem to solve?

00:23:06.960 It's the same if you're engaged in anything creative.

00:23:09.320 If you're not trying to solve a problem,

00:23:11.040 you're not engaged in anything creative.

00:23:12.660 It's more like imitation of creativity,

00:23:14.440 or something like that.

00:23:15.560 So I thought what I would talk about today

00:23:19.640 is something like aim,

00:23:21.820 and the idea of aim.

00:23:23.820 And so I'm going to bounce around that idea,

00:23:26.140 and associate it with the idea of precision in speech,

00:23:29.020 and also the idea of hierarchy,

00:23:30.360 which is what's developed in Rule 1,

00:23:32.800 because I've been thinking a lot about hierarchies.

00:23:35.620 And I think that's partly because of all the chapters in my book,

00:23:39.540 the one that's attracted the most criticism,

00:23:42.480 strangely enough, as far as I'm concerned,

00:23:44.560 was Chapter 1,

00:23:45.520 which is the chapter that features lobsters.

00:23:47.540 Now I think the reason for that is

00:23:49.120 that the people who are particularly critical of what I'm doing

00:23:51.980 can't read more than one chapter of a book,

00:23:54.900 or at least my book.

00:23:56.120 So they get stuck there,

00:23:58.040 and they misinterpret it.

00:24:00.680 But maybe that's mean,

00:24:02.380 and I hope it is.

00:24:05.660 But it's been useful,

00:24:09.520 because it's made me think more about it,

00:24:11.560 and to make the arguments more clear.

00:24:14.020 Because I've been trying to figure out

00:24:15.440 exactly what a hierarchy is.

00:24:19.360 And people said,

00:24:20.500 well, I think it was Kathy Newman who said,

00:24:22.360 so you want to organize human society

00:24:24.160 along the lines of lobsters.

00:24:26.280 It's like, 0.99

00:24:26.680 can you already think of a stupider question than that? 0.99

00:24:29.500 You know, I mean, 0.99

00:24:30.320 I don't even know what to think about a question like that.

00:24:33.220 It's like, yeah, that's exactly what I thought.

00:24:34.880 If we can't manage lobsters,

00:24:36.240 maybe we can hit like the level of spiders,

00:24:38.320 or something like that.

00:24:39.900 So,

00:24:40.920 what I was trying to do was to point out,

00:24:42.860 this is something very, very important.

00:24:44.340 I was trying to point out that

00:24:45.520 most creatures,

00:24:48.160 who have to interact socially,

00:24:49.840 regardless of their level of biological complexity,

00:24:53.180 so across the entire biological landscape,

00:24:55.720 organize themselves into hierarchies.

00:24:59.040 Okay, so,

00:24:59.760 now you might say,

00:25:00.560 well, that doesn't mean that people should

00:25:02.960 organize themselves into hierarchies.

00:25:05.000 And that's actually true,

00:25:06.120 because just because something is,

00:25:08.240 doesn't mean it should be.

00:25:10.020 Fair enough.

00:25:11.940 That's not the point, though.

00:25:13.180 The broader point is,

00:25:15.520 if social animals,

00:25:17.200 all the way up from glorified insects

00:25:19.180 to human beings,

00:25:20.860 organize themselves into hierarchies,

00:25:23.100 or at least that's a very common form of organization,

00:25:25.560 you can't blame the existence of hierarchies

00:25:28.680 on Western culture or capitalism.

00:25:31.200 And that's a big deal, right?

00:25:33.060 That's a,

00:25:33.940 so,

00:25:34.520 you can still,

00:25:36.840 you can still take the leftist stance,

00:25:38.720 and you can say,

00:25:39.820 well, yeah,

00:25:40.260 you can't blame hierarchies

00:25:42.380 on Western culture or capitalism,

00:25:43.880 but you can still be concerned

00:25:45.320 with their negative consequences.

00:25:47.060 It's like,

00:25:47.340 yeah, yeah,

00:25:47.760 fair enough.

00:25:48.200 Absolutely.

00:25:49.260 But if you're really concerned

00:25:50.360 with their negative consequences,

00:25:51.800 you might want to get the causal pathway

00:25:53.960 to their development correct,

00:25:56.620 right?

00:25:57.020 And not misattribute the cause.

00:25:59.100 Because,

00:26:00.020 generally,

00:26:01.160 not always,

00:26:01.740 but if you're trying to solve a problem

00:26:03.520 and you misattribute the cause of the problem,

00:26:06.260 then your solution isn't going to work.

00:26:08.260 Sometimes you get lucky

00:26:09.240 and you solve the problem

00:26:10.700 in some manner

00:26:11.500 that has no relationship whatsoever

00:26:13.280 to the cause of the problem.

00:26:15.120 You know,

00:26:15.280 that's like taking aspirin

00:26:16.320 for a headache,

00:26:17.080 say,

00:26:17.320 but most of the time

00:26:18.340 you better get your causal analysis right.

00:26:20.560 And it seems to me

00:26:21.480 that if you're on the side

00:26:22.580 of the dispossessed, 0.94

00:26:23.600 which is what the radical leftist

00:26:24.920 claimed to be,

00:26:25.900 that you should be really concerned

00:26:27.220 with the nature of hierarchies

00:26:28.420 in a way that's much deeper

00:26:29.560 than some shallow criticism

00:26:30.820 of Western society

00:26:31.860 and capitalism.

00:26:32.900 You might have to go way below that

00:26:34.100 and say,

00:26:34.440 look,

00:26:35.080 the hierarchical structure

00:26:36.820 is built,

00:26:37.580 in some sense,

00:26:38.320 built into the structure

00:26:39.220 of social reality itself.

00:26:40.680 It has negative consequences

00:26:42.500 which involve,

00:26:43.920 you know,

00:26:44.340 the,

00:26:44.660 what would you call

00:26:45.480 the clustering of resources

00:26:48.300 at the top

00:26:49.000 and the relative deprivation

00:26:51.100 of people at the bottom.

00:26:52.320 It's an inevitable consequence

00:26:53.680 of the construction of a hierarchy

00:26:54.980 and we have to deal with that,

00:26:56.500 but that makes it a deeper problem

00:26:58.460 than one that's merely associated

00:26:59.860 with capitalism.

00:27:00.780 And so if you care about

00:27:01.660 the dispossessed, 0.55

00:27:02.400 then you'd think you'd go

00:27:03.240 deeper down into the problem

00:27:04.840 and try to figure out

00:27:05.440 exactly what's going on.

00:27:07.420 So,

00:27:08.040 so we'll talk about that

00:27:09.960 a little bit,

00:27:10.740 a little bit as well.

00:27:12.040 Okay,

00:27:12.340 so back to the idea of aim.

00:27:14.160 So I'm going to wander around

00:27:15.340 a little bit

00:27:15.740 because I'm trying to put ideas together,

00:27:17.340 a whole bunch of ideas.

00:27:19.260 So here's the first one.

00:27:21.360 So,

00:27:21.980 I was thinking about,

00:27:24.040 I'll tell you a story.

00:27:25.140 So,

00:27:25.700 my father happens to own

00:27:27.620 about 300 single-shot rifles.

00:27:30.680 So he lives in northern Alberta

00:27:32.180 and it's a hunting culture,

00:27:34.260 at least his part of the subculture

00:27:36.380 is a hunting culture

00:27:37.240 and he's a gunsmith

00:27:39.280 and he knows everything

00:27:40.360 you could possibly know

00:27:41.280 about single-shot rifles

00:27:42.420 and,

00:27:43.300 and that's always interested me.

00:27:46.340 Not the rifles themselves

00:27:47.720 because it wasn't a passion

00:27:48.980 that I shared,

00:27:50.320 but the fact that he was

00:27:51.600 so interested in them

00:27:52.540 was really interesting to me.

00:27:54.240 I guess that's because

00:27:54.960 I'm more psychologically minded.

00:27:56.380 It's like,

00:27:56.540 what is it about this guy

00:27:57.460 and his guns?

00:27:58.320 Like,

00:27:58.920 why is he so interested in them?

00:28:00.660 And I thought about that

00:28:01.640 for a very long time

00:28:03.340 because I've tried

00:28:03.940 to understand my father.

00:28:05.120 He's quite a respectable person

00:28:06.720 as far as I'm concerned

00:28:07.640 and he's a tough guy

00:28:08.680 and he's smart

00:28:09.280 and he was very good to me

00:28:10.440 when I was a kid

00:28:11.480 and he taught me a lot of things.

00:28:12.780 So,

00:28:13.360 I have a lot of respect for him

00:28:14.560 even though he's a lot different than me.

00:28:16.680 And so,

00:28:17.960 I thought about this

00:28:19.140 and I had an insight

00:28:20.120 a couple of years ago.

00:28:20.980 I thought,

00:28:22.720 he told me that the reason

00:28:23.840 he had single-shot rifles

00:28:24.920 is because when he hunted,

00:28:26.120 he,

00:28:26.540 it was two things.

00:28:27.500 He,

00:28:27.700 he wanted to give the animal a chance

00:28:29.460 so that was the first thing

00:28:31.080 and he wanted to make sure

00:28:32.780 that he aimed properly.

00:28:35.360 Okay,

00:28:35.580 so that was interesting

00:28:36.400 and he was also a target shooter.

00:28:38.500 He's still alive

00:28:39.240 but he's getting a little too old

00:28:40.520 to be a good,

00:28:41.160 a good,

00:28:41.980 a good shot now.

00:28:44.340 It's a little too shaky

00:28:45.160 and his eyesight

00:28:45.860 isn't as good as it could be

00:28:46.900 although I still think

00:28:47.600 it's better than mine.

00:28:48.840 He happens to be colorblind

00:28:49.860 and colorblind people

00:28:50.760 have better eyesight

00:28:51.520 for,

00:28:51.880 for hunting,

00:28:52.560 by the way.

00:28:53.500 I don't know if you know that

00:28:54.660 but they do.

00:28:55.340 They can see animals in the bush

00:28:56.500 better than people

00:28:57.180 with normal color vision.

00:28:58.880 So,

00:28:59.240 anyways,

00:29:01.300 I thought about it

00:29:02.500 for a long time

00:29:03.060 and I thought,

00:29:05.040 I see what he's trying to do.

00:29:06.280 He's trying to hit the target.

00:29:08.580 It's,

00:29:08.720 it's,

00:29:09.000 it's a,

00:29:09.580 it's symbolic.

00:29:10.780 It's symbolic

00:29:11.320 because what you want to do in life

00:29:12.640 is you want to hit the target

00:29:14.160 and use a single-shot rifle

00:29:15.980 you only get one shot

00:29:16.860 so you have to be very,

00:29:17.720 very careful.

00:29:18.220 You have to be very,

00:29:18.820 very precise in your aim.

00:29:20.880 You have to be very skilled

00:29:21.900 and so he's acting out

00:29:23.840 in a technological way

00:29:25.060 this central idea 0.99

00:29:25.960 which is pick a damn target, 0.99

00:29:28.200 aim at the center, 0.99

00:29:29.340 make yourself skilled

00:29:30.240 and hit it.

00:29:31.980 So,

00:29:32.480 I thought,

00:29:32.780 oh,

00:29:32.940 that's a pretty good realization.

00:29:34.480 I wonder if that's the case.

00:29:35.780 So,

00:29:35.960 then I went and talked to him.

00:29:36.740 I said,

00:29:37.000 I think I figured out

00:29:37.780 why you like single-shot rifles so much

00:29:39.880 and so I explained that to him

00:29:41.040 and he said,

00:29:41.360 yeah,

00:29:41.460 I think that's right.

00:29:42.720 I thought,

00:29:43.120 that's good,

00:29:43.540 that's good.

00:29:43.980 So,

00:29:44.080 I was happy about that.

00:29:45.760 So,

00:29:45.960 so,

00:29:48.080 well,

00:29:49.320 and I've become,

00:29:50.220 I've become very interested

00:29:51.340 in the idea of aim.

00:29:53.020 So,

00:29:53.320 you think about the metaphors we use,

00:29:54.860 you know,

00:29:55.020 people will say,

00:29:55.680 what's the point?

00:29:58.280 You know,

00:29:58.640 or what's your aim?

00:30:00.560 And then you think,

00:30:01.500 so,

00:30:01.720 so that's interesting

00:30:02.760 because we know

00:30:03.480 that there's an association

00:30:04.360 between having a point

00:30:05.780 and making a point

00:30:07.580 and having an aim

00:30:08.960 and we know

00:30:09.540 there's an association

00:30:10.300 between that

00:30:10.920 and the idea of meaning itself,

00:30:12.420 right?

00:30:12.680 Because when you say,

00:30:14.000 what's the point,

00:30:15.300 one of the things

00:30:16.200 that you're also saying

00:30:17.160 is,

00:30:17.420 well,

00:30:17.540 what does that mean?

00:30:18.980 Life has no point.

00:30:20.780 It's the same thing

00:30:21.500 as saying that life

00:30:22.220 is meaningless

00:30:22.780 and for something

00:30:23.640 to have a point

00:30:24.400 then all of a sudden

00:30:25.040 it has meaning.

00:30:26.000 So,

00:30:26.200 to have a point

00:30:26.880 is to have meaning.

00:30:28.660 So,

00:30:28.960 that's very interesting

00:30:30.160 and that's associated

00:30:31.560 with this idea

00:30:32.180 of being precise

00:30:32.860 in your speech

00:30:33.400 and,

00:30:33.880 you know,

00:30:34.100 and neurologically

00:30:34.860 this is really true.

00:30:36.340 It's really fundamentally true

00:30:37.800 and we know this

00:30:38.520 because we know a fair bit

00:30:39.940 about how your brain

00:30:40.700 is actually organized

00:30:41.620 in relationship

00:30:42.340 to the linkage

00:30:43.860 between perception

00:30:45.020 and motivation

00:30:46.120 and emotion.

00:30:47.800 So,

00:30:48.040 motivation,

00:30:49.120 these are rough categories

00:30:50.400 but motivation

00:30:51.180 is basically,

00:30:53.560 motivation is the consequence

00:30:55.540 of the action

00:30:56.220 of instinctive systems

00:30:57.260 that set your aim.

00:30:59.340 So,

00:30:59.640 for example,

00:31:00.080 if you're hungry,

00:31:00.700 well,

00:31:00.820 then you aim at food

00:31:01.520 and if you're thirsty,

00:31:02.360 well,

00:31:02.460 then you aim at,

00:31:03.420 then you aim at,

00:31:04.720 at water

00:31:05.860 and,

00:31:06.600 and the way that seems

00:31:07.640 to work is like

00:31:08.480 if you get hungry,

00:31:10.200 maybe you're working

00:31:11.040 on something

00:31:11.620 that has nothing

00:31:12.400 to do with food

00:31:12.940 and you start

00:31:13.340 to get hungry,

00:31:14.120 what happens is

00:31:14.940 the hypothalamus,

00:31:16.360 which is the fundamental

00:31:17.560 brain area

00:31:18.420 that's responsible

00:31:19.500 for primordial motivation.

00:31:20.860 There's a couple of them

00:31:21.500 but it's,

00:31:21.880 it's a major,

00:31:22.580 it's a major brain center.

00:31:23.940 Very,

00:31:24.220 very small,

00:31:24.740 very deep in your brain,

00:31:25.880 very,

00:31:26.220 very ancient.

00:31:28.240 It will start

00:31:29.180 gripping

00:31:31.280 the parts of your brain

00:31:32.940 that produce fantasies

00:31:34.100 and so what happens is

00:31:35.800 you get directly hungry,

00:31:38.000 there's some physiological activation

00:31:39.400 but your brain starts

00:31:40.720 to produce fantasies of food.

00:31:42.620 It's like little movies

00:31:43.440 of what you might do.

00:31:44.900 You know,

00:31:45.120 so that would be a good thing

00:31:46.040 to go into the kitchen

00:31:46.880 and have a peanut butter sandwich.

00:31:47.980 That idea will kind of

00:31:48.720 pop up into your mind

00:31:49.540 and it's a simulation

00:31:50.460 of the action

00:31:51.440 that you might undertake

00:31:52.800 if you were going to quell

00:31:53.960 that motivated state,

00:31:55.480 right?

00:31:55.680 And it's interesting

00:31:56.320 because it's not a direct,

00:31:57.560 it's not directly deterministic.

00:31:59.660 It's not like you're sitting

00:32:00.780 in front of your computer

00:32:01.620 doing whatever you're doing

00:32:03.120 on your computer

00:32:03.720 and all of a sudden

00:32:05.640 you're a zombie, 0.99

00:32:07.780 a determinist zombie 1.00

00:32:09.080 that's gripped

00:32:09.620 by your hypothalamus

00:32:10.640 and you go to the kitchen

00:32:11.900 and like an automaton

00:32:14.700 generate a peanut butter sandwich.

00:32:16.520 It isn't like that at all.

00:32:17.780 What happens is that

00:32:18.660 the hypothalamus

00:32:19.680 suggests a new goal

00:32:21.860 and the goal

00:32:23.260 is associated

00:32:23.900 with a set of images

00:32:24.820 and the images

00:32:25.420 are rough plans

00:32:26.440 about how you might

00:32:27.160 undertake that goal

00:32:28.040 and maybe a variety

00:32:29.220 of those plans

00:32:29.960 might emerge.

00:32:31.480 You see the same thing

00:32:32.220 when you go to a restaurant,

00:32:33.380 you know,

00:32:33.540 and you think,

00:32:33.960 well,

00:32:34.080 what do I want to eat?

00:32:35.560 Which is a form of hunting

00:32:36.720 in some sense,

00:32:37.520 although a pretty privileged

00:32:38.420 form of hunting.

00:32:39.240 It's like,

00:32:39.880 well,

00:32:40.700 maybe I feel like this

00:32:42.280 or maybe I feel like this

00:32:43.340 or maybe I feel like this.

00:32:44.200 Little vignettes

00:32:44.920 will run through your head

00:32:45.920 and they're a reflection

00:32:47.280 of the hypothalamic systems

00:32:49.240 which are way down

00:32:49.920 in the base of your brain

00:32:50.920 interacting with the visual cortex

00:32:53.780 and allowing you to envision

00:32:55.120 a set of possible futures

00:32:56.700 which you can then

00:32:57.900 more or less choose to enact.

00:33:00.340 Now,

00:33:00.780 obviously,

00:33:01.500 as you become

00:33:02.140 more and more food deprived,

00:33:04.360 the grip of your behavior

00:33:06.360 and your imagery

00:33:07.360 by the systems

00:33:09.020 that mediate hunger

00:33:09.680 becomes more and more intense,

00:33:11.080 right?

00:33:11.300 So maybe if you're

00:33:12.500 deprived of food

00:33:13.400 for a week,

00:33:14.620 pretty much all you'll do

00:33:15.560 is dream at night,

00:33:16.700 all you'll do

00:33:17.180 is dream about food

00:33:18.200 and it's really going to

00:33:19.240 occupy your imagination

00:33:20.340 during the day

00:33:21.140 and as you get closer

00:33:22.700 and closer to starvation

00:33:23.820 then,

00:33:24.580 you know,

00:33:24.860 your attention

00:33:25.580 is going to be focused

00:33:26.420 more and more

00:33:26.940 to a single point

00:33:27.920 and you get in some sense

00:33:29.520 more deterministic

00:33:30.600 but you're never

00:33:31.480 finally deterministic.

00:33:34.100 Going online

00:33:35.000 without ExpressVPN

00:33:35.960 is like not paying

00:33:37.060 attention to the safety

00:33:37.920 demonstration on a flight.

00:33:39.660 Most of the time,

00:33:40.320 you'll probably be fine

00:33:41.440 but what if one day

00:33:42.780 that weird yellow mask

00:33:44.020 drops down from overhead

00:33:45.040 and you have no idea

00:33:46.520 what to do?

00:33:47.320 In our hyper-connected world,

00:33:48.800 your digital privacy

00:33:49.760 isn't just a luxury.

00:33:51.140 It's a fundamental right.

00:33:52.440 Every time you connect

00:33:53.240 to an unsecured network

00:33:54.400 in a cafe,

00:33:55.360 hotel,

00:33:55.900 or airport,

00:33:56.720 you're essentially broadcasting

00:33:57.880 your personal information

00:33:58.980 to anyone with a technical

00:34:00.420 know-how to intercept it.

00:34:01.760 And let's be clear,

00:34:02.640 it doesn't take a genius

00:34:03.740 hacker to do this.

00:34:04.660 With some off-the-shelf hardware,

00:34:06.540 even a tech-savvy teenager

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00:36:20.820 There's some very interesting

00:36:22.200 observations about that

00:36:23.540 and behavioral morality

00:36:25.520 in accounts of people starving

00:36:27.080 in books like

00:36:28.280 Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago

00:36:29.960 which talked about

00:36:31.060 how people could still

00:36:32.160 conduct themselves

00:36:32.900 under conditions

00:36:33.940 of extreme privation.

00:36:35.420 How much difference

00:36:36.260 there was in human moral choice

00:36:37.720 even under conditions

00:36:39.420 of absolute privation.

00:36:41.060 So that's very interesting

00:36:41.920 to know about.

00:36:43.200 So anyways,

00:36:44.700 what the hypothalamic systems do

00:36:46.980 and there's some other ones.

00:36:47.820 There's one called

00:36:48.320 the periaqueductal gray

00:36:49.460 that seems to

00:36:50.260 mediate pain responses

00:36:51.860 which is another form

00:36:52.900 of motivation.

00:36:53.920 It's usually

00:36:54.240 get away

00:36:55.340 is the motivation

00:36:56.200 with regards to pain

00:36:57.740 or stay still

00:36:59.060 so you don't injure yourself

00:37:00.380 more.

00:37:02.500 And fear.

00:37:03.420 Fear is more of an emotion

00:37:04.560 though.

00:37:05.260 You can't exactly

00:37:06.560 distinguish between

00:37:07.480 emotions and motivations

00:37:08.580 because they're not

00:37:09.300 real categories.

00:37:10.640 They overlap

00:37:11.080 and there isn't a separate

00:37:12.320 brain system

00:37:13.240 for emotion

00:37:13.860 and one for motivation.

00:37:15.680 Right?

00:37:15.760 They're just sort of

00:37:16.980 rough category terms

00:37:20.200 and they don't bear

00:37:21.040 a one-to-one relationship

00:37:21.960 with the underlying biology

00:37:23.220 but they're still useful

00:37:24.340 enough to discuss.

00:37:25.540 So imagine that

00:37:26.280 your hypothalamus

00:37:27.400 sets your fundamental aim

00:37:28.760 whatever that happens

00:37:30.460 to be

00:37:30.680 the basic aims

00:37:31.800 and then

00:37:32.880 as you're

00:37:34.060 and then that focuses

00:37:35.440 your perception.

00:37:36.840 So for example

00:37:37.480 if you're hungry

00:37:38.220 and you

00:37:39.260 walk out of your office

00:37:40.700 and you go into your kitchen

00:37:41.700 then what's going to happen

00:37:43.340 is the world's going

00:37:44.180 to set itself up

00:37:45.220 around your aim

00:37:46.040 which is really

00:37:46.880 this is a fascinating

00:37:48.080 thing to know

00:37:48.780 because it also

00:37:49.900 sheds light

00:37:51.140 on the relationship

00:37:51.800 between ethics

00:37:52.600 and perception

00:37:53.380 in a fundamental way.

00:37:54.960 It's really

00:37:55.360 I think it's

00:37:56.040 it's a miraculous thing

00:37:57.280 to know in some sense.

00:37:58.760 So

00:37:58.940 anyways

00:38:00.080 if you're hungry

00:38:00.740 and you go into the kitchen

00:38:01.620 then what you tend to see

00:38:03.700 are all those things

00:38:04.920 that are relevant

00:38:05.660 to you acquiring food

00:38:07.100 and you don't see

00:38:08.260 anything else

00:38:08.860 and I mean that literally

00:38:10.180 you think yeah yeah

00:38:11.020 you see the other things

00:38:11.940 it's like no you don't

00:38:12.800 you think you see them

00:38:14.140 but if you're tested

00:38:14.960 you don't see them at all

00:38:15.880 because you're way blinder

00:38:17.060 than you think

00:38:17.800 and when you look at the world

00:38:19.360 you see way less of it

00:38:20.680 than you imagine

00:38:21.520 that you see

00:38:22.180 and what you tend to see

00:38:23.840 are things that are useful

00:38:25.680 while you're pursuing

00:38:27.120 your goal

00:38:27.960 and things that might

00:38:29.500 get in the way

00:38:30.100 and you don't even

00:38:31.100 necessarily see things

00:38:32.260 that might get in the way

00:38:33.060 until they get in the way

00:38:34.700 and so

00:38:35.860 so the world

00:38:36.920 the world constructs itself

00:38:39.320 in terms of how you

00:38:40.280 interact with it

00:38:41.080 in relationship

00:38:42.040 to your goals

00:38:42.920 and that's a

00:38:44.080 you think about that

00:38:45.220 for a minute

00:38:45.520 that means

00:38:46.200 oh well that's so interesting

00:38:47.400 if the world reveals it to you

00:38:49.000 reveals itself to you

00:38:50.340 as an unbearable place

00:38:51.880 there's some possibility

00:38:53.920 that the reason for that

00:38:55.020 is that your goal structure

00:38:55.980 is warped

00:38:56.620 right

00:38:57.820 because

00:38:58.340 because it's definitely

00:39:00.220 the case

00:39:00.940 that the world

00:39:01.460 manifests itself

00:39:02.420 even as objects

00:39:03.660 as tools

00:39:04.260 and impediments

00:39:05.020 but also as

00:39:06.000 things that have

00:39:07.020 emotional tagging

00:39:08.120 in relationship

00:39:09.060 to what your goals are

00:39:10.180 now if you're thinking

00:39:11.100 about just a simple goal

00:39:12.760 so to speak

00:39:14.160 like hunger or thirst

00:39:15.440 well that's not so amazing

00:39:16.700 a conclusion

00:39:17.720 you know

00:39:18.220 but when you're thinking

00:39:19.220 about higher order goals

00:39:20.460 which is

00:39:20.920 and higher order goals

00:39:22.000 are integrally associated

00:39:23.280 with ethics

00:39:23.900 because ethics is

00:39:24.940 well your ethical behavior

00:39:26.640 is a consequence

00:39:27.400 of what it is

00:39:28.260 that you choose

00:39:29.100 to pursue

00:39:29.840 in your life

00:39:30.960 well there's an implication

00:39:32.160 for that

00:39:32.600 which is that

00:39:33.140 if the world isn't unfolding

00:39:34.700 in front of you

00:39:35.380 in a manner that you find

00:39:36.420 acceptable

00:39:36.880 it's certainly possible

00:39:37.840 that what you're aiming at

00:39:38.660 is wrong

00:39:39.160 and that's

00:39:41.180 that's a great thing

00:39:42.580 to realize

00:39:43.120 because

00:39:43.520 well if things aren't

00:39:44.980 going for you

00:39:45.600 the way that you want

00:39:46.560 them to

00:39:46.920 then you kind of

00:39:47.820 have two options

00:39:48.600 one is

00:39:49.140 man the world's

00:39:50.160 a horrible place

00:39:51.000 and that can turn you

00:39:52.520 against the world

00:39:53.300 and I wouldn't

00:39:54.100 recommend that

00:39:54.880 partly because you

00:39:55.720 make the world

00:39:56.220 a worse place then

00:39:57.080 but partly because

00:39:57.860 if it's you against

00:39:58.760 the world buddy

00:39:59.480 you're outmatched

00:40:01.980 right

00:40:03.040 if it's you against

00:40:03.860 reality

00:40:04.340 it's going to be

00:40:04.900 one sad battle

00:40:06.060 and you know

00:40:06.920 you might be able

00:40:07.440 to put up a pretty

00:40:08.140 decent scrap

00:40:08.840 but in the final

00:40:09.480 analysis

00:40:09.840 you're going to get

00:40:10.400 absolutely flattened

00:40:12.460 and so if reality

00:40:13.280 itself is cursed

00:40:14.460 and you're destined 1.00

00:40:15.460 to be miserable 0.96

00:40:16.200 well then 0.99

00:40:16.940 too bad for you

00:40:17.780 but if there's

00:40:18.520 some possibility

00:40:19.340 that the way

00:40:20.740 you're looking

00:40:21.460 at things

00:40:22.040 is making you

00:40:22.860 suffer unduly

00:40:23.940 what that might mean

00:40:25.120 is that you could

00:40:25.720 re-evaluate

00:40:26.660 your ethical structure

00:40:27.740 and that would

00:40:28.240 transform the way

00:40:29.020 the world manifests

00:40:29.840 itself to you

00:40:30.600 now Nietzsche

00:40:31.640 kind of knew that

00:40:32.480 right

00:40:32.720 Nietzsche was the

00:40:33.540 philosopher who

00:40:34.100 announced the death

00:40:34.780 of God

00:40:35.160 and he thought

00:40:35.800 that what would

00:40:36.260 have to happen

00:40:36.860 to human beings

00:40:37.600 is that we would

00:40:38.540 have to generate

00:40:39.300 our own values

00:40:40.280 a new set

00:40:41.160 of values

00:40:41.660 and that

00:40:42.460 that would

00:40:44.500 enable us

00:40:45.140 to transcend

00:40:46.000 this catastrophic

00:40:48.620 the catastrophic

00:40:50.040 dissolution

00:40:50.580 of our previous

00:40:51.280 belief system

00:40:52.040 now

00:40:52.780 I don't think

00:40:55.520 that Nietzsche's

00:40:56.460 solution

00:40:58.520 is actually

00:40:59.180 practically

00:41:00.240 possible

00:41:01.120 or implementable

00:41:02.100 for reasons

00:41:02.860 I may get into

00:41:03.600 later

00:41:03.920 I think

00:41:04.920 I think

00:41:04.940 the fundamental

00:41:05.620 error

00:41:05.980 is that

00:41:06.260 we actually

00:41:06.700 can't create

00:41:07.320 our own values

00:41:08.060 because we're

00:41:08.720 not our own

00:41:09.420 slaves

00:41:10.080 we can't

00:41:10.840 actually tell

00:41:11.820 ourselves

00:41:12.360 what to do

00:41:13.300 we might be

00:41:14.200 able to cooperate

00:41:14.980 with ourselves

00:41:15.820 to move in a

00:41:16.540 certain direction

00:41:17.160 but I don't

00:41:17.860 think you can

00:41:18.400 tyrannize yourself

00:41:19.460 without rebelling

00:41:20.300 any more than you

00:41:20.960 can tyrannize

00:41:21.580 someone else

00:41:22.180 and you have

00:41:23.060 to work with

00:41:24.120 your a priori

00:41:25.240 value systems

00:41:26.040 rather than

00:41:26.860 impose something

00:41:27.840 top down

00:41:28.620 and this is

00:41:29.580 really I think

00:41:30.220 the psychoanalytic

00:41:31.280 contribution

00:41:31.920 to the Nietzschean

00:41:33.700 cure for

00:41:34.840 nihilism

00:41:35.580 it's like

00:41:36.340 so Nietzsche

00:41:36.760 thought

00:41:37.020 well we should

00:41:37.480 generate our

00:41:37.960 own values

00:41:38.540 and Carl Jung

00:41:39.440 came along

00:41:39.900 and said

00:41:40.180 yeah but

00:41:40.520 wait a second

00:41:41.100 we can't

00:41:42.160 because we

00:41:42.860 actually have

00:41:43.400 a biological

00:41:44.100 nature

00:41:44.580 that's expressed

00:41:45.280 in these

00:41:45.640 archetypal

00:41:46.200 structures

00:41:46.620 in these

00:41:47.060 great stories

00:41:47.700 we have

00:41:48.120 and in order

00:41:48.840 for us

00:41:49.280 to develop

00:41:50.460 valuation systems

00:41:52.020 that are

00:41:52.420 functional

00:41:52.980 both psychologically

00:41:53.800 and practically

00:41:54.540 we have to

00:41:55.460 take our

00:41:55.940 own nature

00:41:56.660 into account

00:41:57.560 and I also

00:41:58.580 think that's

00:41:59.040 a good

00:41:59.440 antidote to

00:42:00.320 utopian thinking

00:42:01.260 because one of

00:42:02.140 the problems

00:42:02.500 with utopians

00:42:03.300 especially the

00:42:03.920 rationalist types

00:42:04.680 is that they

00:42:05.520 tend to think

00:42:06.040 that human beings

00:42:06.740 can be remade

00:42:08.720 in whatever

00:42:09.860 image the

00:42:10.700 rationalist utopians

00:42:11.980 happen to have

00:42:12.820 of the

00:42:13.360 desirable

00:42:14.220 and optimal

00:42:15.360 human being

00:42:16.100 and that just

00:42:17.180 doesn't work

00:42:17.840 it's like

00:42:18.460 because we

00:42:19.480 have a nature

00:42:19.980 despite what

00:42:21.640 the social

00:42:22.020 constructionists

00:42:22.740 say

00:42:22.980 and so we

00:42:24.000 at least

00:42:24.320 even though

00:42:24.860 like the nature

00:42:25.860 doesn't determine

00:42:26.700 our behavior

00:42:27.640 but it sets

00:42:28.920 parameters for

00:42:29.860 who and what

00:42:30.340 we are

00:42:30.700 and we have

00:42:31.120 to cooperate

00:42:31.620 with that

00:42:32.000 just like

00:42:32.460 if you're

00:42:32.980 trying to

00:42:33.240 work with

00:42:33.560 someone else

00:42:34.140 child, wife,

00:42:35.180 husband, co-workers

00:42:36.420 doesn't matter

00:42:37.340 you have to

00:42:38.440 cooperate with

00:42:39.320 them in order

00:42:39.740 to build

00:42:40.340 a structure

00:42:41.340 of perception

00:42:42.020 and behavior

00:42:42.500 that you can

00:42:42.980 jointly inhabit

00:42:43.660 and I think

00:42:44.200 there's no

00:42:44.560 difference between

00:42:45.160 that and doing

00:42:45.740 that with yourself

00:42:48.160 one of the things

00:42:49.220 Jung did

00:42:49.700 and the psychoanalyst

00:42:50.500 as well

00:42:50.960 when he was

00:42:51.380 trying to

00:42:51.760 restructure

00:42:52.420 people's value

00:42:53.280 systems

00:42:53.720 he would consult

00:42:54.680 their dreams

00:42:55.480 because

00:42:56.640 this is a very

00:42:57.900 interesting issue

00:42:59.320 and something

00:42:59.760 I'm writing

00:43:00.180 about a lot

00:43:00.700 in my second

00:43:01.260 book

00:43:01.500 I'm writing

00:43:02.560 a chapter

00:43:02.940 called

00:43:03.300 make one

00:43:03.860 room

00:43:04.300 in your house

00:43:05.360 as beautiful

00:43:05.780 as possible

00:43:06.460 it's sort

00:43:07.840 of an extension

00:43:08.380 of clean

00:43:08.860 your room

00:43:09.340 or put your

00:43:10.020 house in

00:43:10.320 perfect order

00:43:10.900 because

00:43:12.180 what artists

00:43:13.960 do in some

00:43:14.800 sense

00:43:15.100 so they're

00:43:15.480 obsessed

00:43:18.540 or they should

00:43:19.240 be obsessed

00:43:19.720 with beauty

00:43:20.340 and beauty

00:43:21.460 is a vision

00:43:22.020 of the way

00:43:22.460 that things

00:43:22.900 could be

00:43:23.480 and it's

00:43:24.180 an act

00:43:25.400 of artistic

00:43:25.960 imagination

00:43:26.560 and it's

00:43:27.200 associated

00:43:27.700 with dreaming

00:43:28.300 and so

00:43:29.160 partly

00:43:29.500 what you

00:43:30.100 do

00:43:30.280 when you

00:43:30.580 put the

00:43:30.880 world

00:43:31.080 together

00:43:31.440 whether you

00:43:31.900 know it

00:43:32.140 or not

00:43:32.460 is

00:43:32.660 you

00:43:33.320 encounter

00:43:33.820 the things

00:43:34.400 that you

00:43:34.680 don't understand

00:43:35.540 first through

00:43:36.420 your dreams

00:43:37.320 that's

00:43:38.440 the creative

00:43:40.420 part of you

00:43:40.980 that generates

00:43:41.840 images of what

00:43:42.860 could be

00:43:43.380 and Jung's

00:43:44.400 attempt to

00:43:44.900 analyze dreams

00:43:45.640 was an attempt

00:43:46.360 to take that

00:43:47.200 dreamlike

00:43:48.540 foray into

00:43:50.100 the unknown

00:43:50.660 and to make

00:43:51.140 it explicit

00:43:51.680 so that people

00:43:52.340 could incorporate

00:43:53.240 the most

00:43:55.820 exploratory parts

00:43:57.220 of their

00:43:57.580 creative

00:43:58.160 imagination

00:43:58.700 into their

00:43:59.400 lives

00:43:59.760 and so he

00:44:00.440 was consulting

00:44:01.420 with their

00:44:02.080 with the

00:44:02.760 imagistic

00:44:03.380 expression

00:44:03.920 of their

00:44:04.320 biology

00:44:04.980 to update

00:44:05.960 their systems

00:44:06.560 of ethics

00:44:07.100 that's the

00:44:07.920 right way

00:44:08.300 of thinking

00:44:08.680 about it

00:44:09.200 you know

00:44:10.000 and Jung

00:44:10.600 is often

00:44:11.040 criticized

00:44:11.420 for being

00:44:12.000 unscientific

00:44:12.680 but I

00:44:13.340 knew some

00:44:13.900 of the

00:44:14.160 greatest

00:44:14.560 neuroscientists

00:44:16.180 of the

00:44:16.560 time

00:44:16.960 you know

00:44:17.300 one of

00:44:17.620 them in

00:44:17.900 particular

00:44:18.320 Jock

00:44:18.740 Panksepp

00:44:19.240 who died

00:44:19.660 just a

00:44:20.020 year

00:44:20.180 two years

00:44:20.940 ago

00:44:21.100 something like

00:44:21.580 that

00:44:21.760 he wrote

00:44:22.380 a book

00:44:22.700 that's

00:44:22.960 on my

00:44:23.240 book

00:44:23.480 list

00:44:23.720 which is

00:44:24.040 on my

00:44:24.320 website

00:44:24.620 called

00:44:24.940 Affective

00:44:25.420 Neuroscience

00:44:26.160 it's a

00:44:26.720 great book

00:44:27.320 man

00:44:27.560 it's

00:44:27.860 wonderful

00:44:28.920 one of

00:44:29.320 the real

00:44:30.180 classics

00:44:30.720 of

00:44:31.040 well

00:44:31.680 it's

00:44:31.840 classic

00:44:32.200 of

00:44:32.380 21st

00:44:33.000 century

00:44:33.460 psychobiology

00:44:34.640 I guess

00:44:35.100 and Panksepp

00:44:36.000 Panksepp

00:44:36.700 discovered

00:44:37.160 the play

00:44:37.700 circuit

00:44:38.120 in mammals

00:44:38.740 that's a

00:44:39.440 big deal

00:44:39.900 right

00:44:40.120 discovering

00:44:40.480 a whole

00:44:41.160 neurological

00:44:42.040 circuit

00:44:42.600 that's

00:44:42.880 like

00:44:43.020 discovering

00:44:43.420 a

00:44:43.680 continent

00:44:44.080 that's

00:44:44.500 Nobel

00:44:44.800 prize

00:44:45.360 worthy

00:44:45.740 stuff

00:44:46.240 and he

00:44:46.860 discovered

00:44:47.260 the play

00:44:47.680 circuit

00:44:48.020 and discovered

00:44:48.840 that it

00:44:49.100 was a

00:44:49.400 separate

00:44:49.740 circuit

00:44:50.180 and that

00:44:51.000 it operated

00:44:51.480 across

00:44:52.960 and that

00:44:53.260 its

00:44:53.720 operation

00:44:54.260 was

00:44:54.520 associated

00:44:55.040 with

00:44:55.380 the

00:44:55.700 emergence

00:44:56.360 of

00:44:56.620 morality

00:44:57.080 those

00:44:57.540 are

00:44:57.660 big

00:44:57.920 discoveries

00:44:58.440 anyways

00:44:59.100 Panksepp

00:44:59.680 was one

00:45:00.080 of the

00:45:00.320 people

00:45:00.560 who was

00:45:00.780 very

00:45:00.980 interested

00:45:01.380 in

00:45:01.620 Jungian

00:45:01.960 archetypal

00:45:02.480 ideas

00:45:02.900 and my

00:45:03.980 experience

00:45:04.460 has been

00:45:04.860 that

00:45:05.100 the

00:45:05.580 biological

00:45:06.120 types

00:45:06.780 the

00:45:07.460 psychologists

00:45:07.980 who are

00:45:08.280 very

00:45:08.480 biologically

00:45:09.100 oriented

00:45:09.600 are very

00:45:10.620 much

00:45:11.020 appreciative

00:45:12.500 of Jung's

00:45:12.980 ideas

00:45:13.320 if they

00:45:14.100 study

00:45:14.420 emotion

00:45:14.860 and

00:45:15.120 motivation

00:45:15.600 so that's

00:45:16.540 the

00:45:16.660 instinctive

00:45:17.240 level

00:45:17.520 of

00:45:17.680 cognition

00:45:18.060 whereas

00:45:18.340 the

00:45:18.520 people

00:45:18.780 like

00:45:19.220 Sam

00:45:19.520 Harris

00:45:19.820 for

00:45:20.000 example

00:45:20.320 who

00:45:20.800 study

00:45:21.180 cortical

00:45:21.700 function

00:45:22.960 people tend

00:45:23.280 to think

00:45:23.600 of

00:45:23.720 as

00:45:23.820 the

00:45:24.000 advanced

00:45:24.440 part

00:45:24.720 of

00:45:24.820 the

00:45:24.940 brain

00:45:25.180 which

00:45:25.580 is

00:45:25.740 wrong

00:45:26.040 by

00:45:26.220 the

00:45:26.300 way

00:45:26.480 it's

00:45:27.580 not

00:45:27.740 the

00:45:27.900 advanced

00:45:28.240 part

00:45:28.480 of

00:45:28.560 the

00:45:28.640 brain

00:45:28.860 it's

00:45:29.440 the

00:45:29.560 part

00:45:29.740 of

00:45:29.820 the

00:45:29.900 brain

00:45:30.120 that 0.88

00:45:30.280 your

00:45:30.420 brain

00:45:30.680 lets

00:45:30.940 you

00:45:31.160 use

00:45:31.520 because

00:45:32.280 if

00:45:32.960 you

00:45:33.060 do

00:45:33.200 something 1.00

00:45:33.460 stupid 1.00

00:45:33.840 with 1.00

00:45:34.160 it

00:45:34.260 you

00:45:34.400 won't

00:45:34.580 die

00:45:34.840 instantly

00:45:35.340 so

00:45:36.320 the

00:45:36.920 complex

00:45:37.400 parts

00:45:37.720 of

00:45:37.880 your

00:45:38.000 brain

00:45:38.300 they

00:45:38.600 make

00:45:38.840 you

00:45:39.000 breathe

00:45:39.460 right

00:45:40.480 or

00:45:40.580 they

00:45:40.720 keep

00:45:40.920 your

00:45:41.080 heart

00:45:41.320 going

00:45:41.700 or

00:45:42.120 they

00:45:42.300 regulate

00:45:42.700 your

00:45:42.900 digestion

00:45:43.380 you

00:45:43.580 want

00:45:43.720 to

00:45:43.820 do

00:45:43.920 that

00:45:44.180 voluntarily

00:45:44.780 it's

00:45:45.300 like

00:45:45.420 we'll

00:45:45.540 turn

00:45:45.720 that

00:45:45.880 over

00:45:46.040 to

00:45:46.140 your

00:45:46.280 cortex

00:45:46.800 you

00:45:47.260 can

00:45:47.460 plan

00:45:47.820 your

00:45:48.040 digestion

00:45:48.700 now

00:45:49.300 that's

00:45:49.520 not

00:45:49.660 going

00:45:49.760 to

00:45:49.840 work

00:45:50.000 out

00:45:50.160 very

00:45:50.380 well

00:45:50.600 for

00:45:50.820 you

00:45:51.020 it's

00:45:51.640 too

00:45:51.820 calm

00:45:52.060 you

00:45:52.180 don't

00:45:52.320 even

00:45:52.480 know

00:45:52.660 how

00:45:52.820 you

00:45:53.000 walk

00:45:53.580 much

00:45:53.860 less

00:45:54.100 how

00:45:54.240 you

00:45:54.420 digest

00:45:55.100 so

00:45:56.140 so

00:45:57.420 the

00:45:57.660 emotional

00:45:58.900 neuroscientists

00:45:59.940 were very

00:46:00.380 much

00:46:00.640 interested

00:46:01.100 in

00:46:01.360 the

00:46:01.800 idea

00:46:02.120 of

00:46:02.300 archetype

00:46:02.880 because

00:46:03.120 they

00:46:03.380 know

00:46:03.720 that

00:46:04.000 our

00:46:04.600 cognitive

00:46:05.540 structures

00:46:06.380 are

00:46:06.600 nested

00:46:07.160 inside

00:46:07.600 our

00:46:07.920 biological

00:46:08.700 predispositions

00:46:09.780 and

00:46:10.460 that

00:46:10.600 there's

00:46:10.780 some

00:46:10.960 relationship

00:46:11.560 between

00:46:11.940 those

00:46:12.180 biological

00:46:12.980 predispositions

00:46:13.840 and the

00:46:14.440 way that

00:46:14.800 we

00:46:15.000 perceive

00:46:15.820 and think

00:46:16.220 about

00:46:16.400 the

00:46:16.540 world

00:46:16.700 so

00:46:17.180 that's

00:46:17.420 partly

00:46:17.660 what

00:46:17.820 I'm

00:46:17.940 trying

00:46:18.100 to

00:46:18.260 lay

00:46:18.440 out

00:46:18.640 so

00:46:18.860 if

00:46:19.240 you

00:46:19.300 go

00:46:19.420 into

00:46:19.540 the

00:46:19.680 kitchen

00:46:19.960 for

00:46:20.180 example

00:46:20.520 and

00:46:20.680 you're

00:46:20.820 hungry

00:46:21.100 what

00:46:21.560 you

00:46:21.720 see

00:46:21.940 are

00:46:22.140 things

00:46:22.560 relevant

00:46:23.100 to

00:46:23.460 the

00:46:23.700 food

00:46:24.000 making

00:46:24.380 operation

00:46:24.980 and

00:46:25.580 that's

00:46:25.860 actually

00:46:26.120 how

00:46:26.260 your

00:46:26.460 perceptions

00:46:26.920 work

00:46:27.460 so

00:46:27.960 you

00:46:28.040 think

00:46:28.220 well

00:46:28.360 you

00:46:28.520 see

00:46:28.740 the

00:46:28.920 world

00:46:29.260 the

00:46:29.620 way

00:46:29.760 it

00:46:29.900 is

00:46:30.160 and

00:46:30.600 then

00:46:30.720 you

00:46:30.860 think

00:46:31.180 about

00:46:31.460 it

00:46:31.600 and

00:46:31.760 you

00:46:31.880 evaluate

00:46:32.240 it

00:46:32.480 and

00:46:32.540 then

00:46:32.660 you

00:46:32.760 decide

00:46:33.080 to

00:46:33.240 act

00:46:33.520 on

00:46:33.700 it

00:46:33.820 it's

00:46:33.880 like

00:46:34.000 that

00:46:34.200 is

00:46:34.360 not

00:46:34.600 how

00:46:34.780 it

00:46:34.960 works

00:46:35.320 it

00:46:35.980 does

00:46:36.200 not

00:46:36.420 work

00:46:36.660 that

00:46:36.860 way

00:46:37.060 so

00:46:37.560 for

00:46:37.740 example

00:46:38.120 if

00:46:39.200 you

00:46:39.400 look

00:46:39.740 at

00:46:39.920 a

00:46:40.040 table

00:46:40.360 and

00:46:40.560 there's

00:46:40.740 a

00:46:40.840 glass

00:46:41.220 on

00:46:41.480 it

00:46:41.640 like

00:46:42.060 a

00:46:42.200 drinking

00:46:42.440 glass

00:46:42.880 your

00:46:44.020 eyes

00:46:44.580 activate

00:46:45.300 your

00:46:45.620 motor

00:46:45.860 cortex

00:46:46.280 directly

00:46:46.940 so

00:46:47.960 part

00:46:48.400 of

00:46:48.560 the

00:46:48.740 act

00:46:49.200 of

00:46:49.400 seeing

00:46:49.840 a

00:46:50.040 glass

00:46:50.480 is

00:46:51.140 mentally

00:46:51.980 preparing

00:46:52.660 to

00:46:53.220 do

00:46:53.400 this

00:46:53.840 and

00:46:54.220 so

00:46:54.380 this

00:46:54.900 say

00:46:55.540 the

00:46:55.660 glass

00:46:55.940 is

00:46:56.080 that

00:46:56.260 size

00:46:56.600 is

00:46:57.060 the

00:46:57.280 imitation

00:46:57.760 of

00:46:58.220 the

00:46:58.380 glass

00:46:58.780 with

00:46:59.060 your

00:46:59.220 hand

00:46:59.660 and

00:47:00.580 the

00:47:00.760 imitation

00:47:01.240 of

00:47:01.480 your

00:47:01.600 glass

00:47:01.900 with

00:47:02.080 your

00:47:02.220 hand

00:47:02.420 is

00:47:02.560 the

00:47:02.700 preparation

00:47:03.140 for

00:47:03.440 moving

00:47:03.760 the

00:47:03.960 glass

00:47:04.220 to

00:47:04.360 your

00:47:04.480 mouth

00:47:04.760 and

00:47:05.180 that's

00:47:05.480 what

00:47:05.620 the

00:47:05.780 glass

00:47:06.140 is

00:47:06.540 the

00:47:07.000 glass

00:47:07.300 isn't

00:47:07.740 an

00:47:08.120 object

00:47:09.180 the

00:47:10.120 glass

00:47:10.460 is

00:47:10.660 an

00:47:10.860 implement

00:47:11.500 for

00:47:11.960 a

00:47:12.220 desired

00:47:12.700 end

00:47:13.160 and

00:47:13.580 that's

00:47:13.840 what

00:47:14.000 you

00:47:14.180 see

00:47:14.820 you

00:47:15.340 see

00:47:15.520 that

00:47:15.720 directly

00:47:16.320 you

00:47:16.500 don't

00:47:16.620 see

00:47:16.780 the

00:47:16.960 fact

00:47:17.280 of

00:47:17.420 the

00:47:17.540 glass

00:47:17.860 and

00:47:18.020 infer

00:47:19.940 its

00:47:20.140 function

00:47:20.500 you

00:47:20.940 see

00:47:21.420 its

00:47:21.760 function

00:47:22.300 the

00:47:23.140 person

00:47:23.460 who

00:47:23.600 established

00:47:24.100 this

00:47:24.520 wrote

00:47:25.320 a book

00:47:25.560 called

00:47:25.840 the

00:47:26.020 ecological

00:47:26.680 guide

00:47:28.840 to

00:47:29.000 visual

00:47:29.280 perception

00:47:29.860 another

00:47:30.380 brilliant

00:47:30.800 book

00:47:31.060 it's

00:47:31.260 also

00:47:31.440 on my

00:47:31.840 reading

00:47:32.400 list

00:47:32.600 one of

00:47:32.880 the

00:47:32.920 things

00:47:33.080 he

00:47:33.220 pointed

00:47:33.480 out

00:47:33.700 was

00:47:33.900 that

00:47:34.120 when

00:47:35.220 you

00:47:35.340 come

00:47:35.800 close

00:47:36.140 to

00:47:36.400 like

00:47:37.860 a

00:47:38.220 cliff

00:47:38.980 like

00:47:39.260 disjunction

00:47:40.780 like

00:47:41.000 that

00:47:41.200 you

00:47:41.640 don't

00:47:41.940 see

00:47:42.260 a

00:47:42.520 cliff

00:47:42.820 you

00:47:43.480 see

00:47:43.680 a

00:47:43.920 falling

00:47:44.400 off

00:47:44.860 place

00:47:45.460 and

00:47:46.360 you're

00:47:46.520 right

00:47:46.820 right

00:47:47.140 and

00:47:47.440 babies

00:47:48.080 see

00:47:48.360 this

00:47:48.580 right

00:47:48.760 because

00:47:48.960 if

00:47:49.520 you

00:47:49.740 put

00:47:51.060 two

00:47:51.280 tables

00:47:51.580 together

00:47:51.980 and

00:47:53.020 you

00:47:53.100 have

00:47:53.260 a

00:47:53.400 space

00:47:53.680 between

00:47:53.980 them

00:47:54.120 and

00:47:54.200 you

00:47:54.260 put

00:47:54.380 a

00:47:54.480 piece

00:47:54.620 of

00:47:54.740 glass

00:47:55.080 across

00:47:55.440 the

00:47:55.640 space

00:47:56.000 like

00:47:56.640 a

00:47:56.800 baby

00:47:57.000 that

00:47:57.160 can

00:47:57.300 just

00:47:57.480 start

00:47:57.780 to

00:47:57.940 crawl

00:47:58.140 won't

00:47:58.460 crawl

00:47:58.720 across

00:47:59.060 the

00:47:59.260 space

00:47:59.620 because

00:48:00.500 they

00:48:00.700 see

00:48:01.000 a

00:48:01.200 falling

00:48:01.460 off

00:48:01.700 place

00:48:02.060 and

00:48:02.740 when

00:48:02.880 they

00:48:03.000 see

00:48:03.160 a

00:48:03.280 falling

00:48:03.460 off

00:48:03.680 place

00:48:03.940 that

00:48:04.180 makes

00:48:04.540 their

00:48:04.760 body

00:48:05.120 move

00:48:05.460 away

00:48:05.860 and

00:48:06.720 it's

00:48:07.140 because

00:48:07.440 your

00:48:08.140 visual

00:48:08.460 system

00:48:08.840 is

00:48:08.980 very

00:48:09.180 complicated

00:48:09.720 it

00:48:09.940 doesn't

00:48:10.160 just

00:48:10.360 it

00:48:10.820 doesn't

00:48:11.040 just

00:48:11.220 report

00:48:11.580 to

00:48:11.740 your

00:48:11.880 so

00:48:12.200 it

00:48:12.320 isn't

00:48:12.520 like

00:48:12.740 there's

00:48:13.360 an

00:48:13.480 object

00:48:13.860 you

00:48:14.360 see

00:48:14.580 it

00:48:14.700 and

00:48:14.820 you

00:48:14.940 think

00:48:15.120 about

00:48:15.320 it

00:48:15.440 it's

00:48:15.540 like

00:48:15.700 what's

00:48:16.880 happening

00:48:17.220 is

00:48:17.420 there's

00:48:17.620 a

00:48:17.760 pattern

00:48:18.140 out

00:48:18.400 there

00:48:18.680 and

00:48:20.120 that

00:48:20.320 pattern

00:48:20.720 makes

00:48:20.980 a

00:48:21.140 pattern

00:48:21.420 on

00:48:21.640 your

00:48:21.820 retina

00:48:22.240 and

00:48:22.960 then

00:48:23.080 that

00:48:23.280 retinal 0.99

00:48:23.680 pattern

00:48:24.080 propagates

00:48:24.800 through

00:48:25.000 the

00:48:25.160 optic

00:48:25.460 nerve

00:48:25.780 and

00:48:26.160 then

00:48:26.280 that

00:48:26.460 fragments

00:48:26.960 up

00:48:27.380 into

00:48:27.580 all

00:48:27.840 sorts

00:48:28.060 of

00:48:28.200 different

00:48:28.480 outputs

00:48:28.920 so

00:48:29.460 for

00:48:29.620 example

00:48:29.920 your

00:48:30.140 eyes

00:48:30.380 map

00:48:30.680 right

00:48:30.940 onto

00:48:31.200 your

00:48:31.440 spine

00:48:32.000 and

00:48:33.140 so

00:48:33.300 one

00:48:33.580 of

00:48:33.680 the

00:48:33.800 consequences

00:48:34.320 of

00:48:34.540 that

00:48:34.700 is

00:48:34.860 I

00:48:35.160 actually

00:48:35.420 saw

00:48:35.680 this

00:48:35.900 happen

00:48:36.200 one

00:48:36.400 time

00:48:36.560 in

00:48:36.660 my

00:48:36.800 life

00:48:37.000 I

00:48:37.120 was

00:48:37.280 walking

00:48:39.120 along

00:48:39.500 some

00:48:39.840 falling

00:48:40.160 off

00:48:40.400 places

00:48:40.820 by

00:48:41.540 the

00:48:42.680 Pacific

00:48:43.000 Ocean

00:48:43.460 near

00:48:45.020 LA

00:48:45.320 and I

00:48:45.600 was

00:48:45.720 with

00:48:45.940 this

00:48:46.260 friend

00:48:46.820 brother

00:48:47.520 of

00:48:47.700 a

00:48:47.780 friend

00:48:47.940 of

00:48:48.040 mine

00:48:48.140 he

00:48:48.260 was

00:48:48.340 about

00:48:48.500 six

00:48:48.760 five

00:48:49.040 and

00:48:49.160 he

00:48:49.200 had

00:48:49.300 this

00:48:49.440 little

00:48:49.620 daughter

00:48:49.900 who

00:48:50.020 was

00:48:50.080 about

00:48:50.280 four

00:48:50.740 or

00:48:50.900 five

00:48:51.100 years

00:48:51.340 old

00:48:51.660 and

00:48:52.180 we

00:48:52.260 were

00:48:52.300 walking

00:48:52.620 down

00:48:52.820 the

00:48:52.940 pathway

00:48:53.340 and

00:48:54.240 there

00:48:54.440 was

00:48:54.540 a

00:48:54.660 rattlesnake

00:48:55.140 by

00:48:55.300 the

00:48:55.420 pathway

00:48:55.800 and

00:48:56.720 she

00:48:56.980 saw

00:48:57.400 it

00:48:57.600 and

00:48:57.820 jumped

00:48:58.120 right

00:48:58.460 on

00:48:58.740 top

00:48:59.020 of

00:48:59.140 her

00:48:59.280 father's

00:48:59.700 shoulders

00:49:00.080 just

00:49:00.780 like

00:49:00.960 a

00:49:01.120 cat

00:49:01.520 it

00:49:01.740 was

00:49:01.800 like

00:49:01.940 ping

00:49:02.480 on

00:49:03.040 her

00:49:03.180 father's

00:49:03.540 shoulders

00:49:03.880 I

00:49:04.380 thought

00:49:04.520 well

00:49:04.720 that

00:49:05.100 that

00:49:05.820 was

00:49:06.020 quite

00:49:06.340 amazing

00:49:07.260 then

00:49:07.860 I

00:49:08.000 read

00:49:08.160 another

00:49:08.460 book

00:49:08.700 by

00:49:08.900 a

00:49:09.000 guy

00:49:09.120 named

00:49:09.320 Joseph

00:49:09.700 Ledoux

00:49:10.220 someone

00:49:10.740 else

00:49:11.020 I

00:49:11.140 would

00:49:11.260 recommend

00:49:11.660 and

00:49:12.180 he

00:49:12.380 mapped

00:49:12.860 out

00:49:13.200 snake

00:49:13.620 perception

00:49:14.260 and

00:49:14.960 so

00:49:15.140 if

00:49:16.440 you

00:49:16.600 have

00:49:16.820 to

00:49:16.960 see

00:49:17.180 a

00:49:22.940 strategy

00:49:23.480 so

00:49:24.320 but

00:49:24.720 you

00:49:25.000 have

00:49:25.220 spinal

00:49:25.700 reflexes

00:49:26.440 to

00:49:26.660 snake

00:49:27.040 like

00:49:27.300 entities

00:49:27.760 and

00:49:28.540 they're

00:49:28.740 fast

00:49:29.220 so

00:49:29.520 they

00:49:29.900 can

00:49:30.040 operate

00:49:30.380 in

00:49:30.520 less

00:49:30.700 than

00:49:30.860 a

00:49:31.000 tenth

00:49:31.180 of

00:49:31.300 a

00:49:31.420 second

00:49:31.680 which

00:49:31.900 gives

00:49:32.100 you

00:49:32.220 a

00:49:32.340 fighting

00:49:32.540 chance

00:49:32.940 with

00:49:33.100 regards

00:49:33.400 to

00:49:33.580 a

00:49:33.720 snake

00:49:33.980 strike

00:49:34.780 and

00:49:35.280 so

00:49:35.400 what

00:49:35.540 happens

00:49:35.900 is

00:49:36.120 your

00:49:36.720 visual

00:49:37.100 system

00:49:37.580 a

00:49:38.060 specific

00:49:38.460 part

00:49:38.780 of

00:49:38.880 it

00:49:38.960 that's

00:49:39.200 associated

00:49:39.660 with

00:49:39.940 fear

00:49:40.280 picks

00:49:41.060 up

00:49:41.260 the

00:49:41.480 snake

00:49:41.760 pattern

00:49:42.240 and

00:49:42.760 it

00:49:42.880 maps

00:49:43.200 right

00:49:43.420 onto

00:49:43.600 your

00:49:43.760 spinal

00:49:44.060 cord

00:49:44.280 and

00:49:44.360 that

00:49:44.480 makes

00:49:44.680 you

00:49:44.800 jump

00:49:52.940 spine

00:49:53.180 produces

00:49:53.540 a

00:49:53.740 pattern

00:49:54.000 which

00:49:54.200 is

00:49:54.340 you

00:49:54.500 jumping

00:49:54.900 and

00:49:55.520 then

00:49:55.660 you're

00:49:55.780 not

00:49:56.000 dead

00:49:56.320 and 0.53

00:49:56.720 all

00:49:56.880 of

00:49:57.000 that's

00:49:57.260 conserved

00:49:57.860 and

00:49:58.040 so

00:49:58.200 your

00:49:58.460 eyes

00:49:59.120 actually

00:49:59.660 communicate

00:50:00.820 with

00:50:01.120 your

00:50:01.240 nervous

00:50:01.540 system

00:50:01.840 at

00:50:02.020 multiple

00:50:02.420 levels

00:50:02.940 the

00:50:03.320 top

00:50:03.620 level

00:50:03.900 is

00:50:04.080 conscious

00:50:04.420 vision

00:50:04.840 so

00:50:05.460 there's

00:50:05.640 other

00:50:05.840 phenomena

00:50:06.220 that

00:50:06.380 go

00:50:06.520 along

00:50:06.740 with

00:50:06.900 this

00:50:07.040 like

00:50:07.220 blind

00:50:07.640 sight

00:50:07.980 is

00:50:08.160 a

00:50:08.260 real

00:50:08.380 cool

00:50:08.660 one

00:50:08.900 so

00:50:09.060 there

00:50:09.520 are

00:50:09.640 people

00:50:09.920 who

00:50:10.180 there's

00:50:10.700 different

00:50:10.960 ways

00:50:11.160 to

00:50:11.300 be

00:50:11.440 blind

00:50:11.780 right

00:50:12.020 you

00:50:12.140 could

00:50:12.260 have

00:50:12.400 your

00:50:12.540 optical

00:50:12.860 nerves

00:50:13.200 severed

00:50:13.640 you

00:50:13.940 could

00:50:14.040 have

00:50:14.140 your

00:50:14.280 retinas 0.99

00:50:14.620 damaged

00:50:15.140 or

00:50:15.620 you

00:50:15.740 can

00:50:15.840 have

00:50:15.980 a

00:50:16.140 stroke

00:50:16.520 and

00:50:16.980 the

00:50:17.100 stroke

00:50:17.340 will

00:50:17.480 take

00:50:17.720 out

00:50:17.880 the

00:50:18.020 visual

00:50:18.260 cortex

00:50:18.640 and

00:50:19.400 so

00:50:19.560 if

00:50:19.680 you

00:50:19.760 have

00:50:19.960 a

00:50:20.120 stroke

00:50:20.360 and

00:50:20.520 it's

00:50:20.700 taken

00:50:20.960 out

00:50:21.140 your

00:50:21.300 visual

00:50:21.620 cortex

00:50:22.020 which

00:50:22.320 is

00:50:22.480 pretty

00:50:22.780 high

00:50:23.060 up

00:50:23.260 in

00:50:23.380 the

00:50:23.520 visual

00:50:23.780 processing

00:50:24.320 hierarchy

00:50:26.240 then

00:50:26.980 you

00:50:27.340 say

00:50:27.760 you

00:50:28.040 can't

00:50:28.560 see

00:50:28.940 so

00:50:29.980 if

00:50:30.340 you

00:50:30.460 talk

00:50:30.660 to

00:50:30.780 someone

00:50:31.060 with

00:50:31.320 with

00:50:31.920 who's

00:50:33.020 blind

00:50:33.260 because

00:50:33.520 of a

00:50:33.800 stroke

00:50:34.420 to

00:50:35.120 the

00:50:35.220 visual

00:50:35.460 cortex

00:50:35.780 and

00:50:36.340 you

00:50:36.480 say

00:50:43.200 they

00:50:44.060 move

00:50:44.260 your

00:50:44.420 hand

00:50:44.700 they

00:50:45.360 can

00:50:45.520 guess

00:50:45.780 with

00:50:45.940 9

00:50:46.160 out

00:50:46.300 of

00:50:46.400 10

00:50:46.560 accuracy

00:50:47.100 even

00:50:48.460 though

00:50:48.580 they

00:50:48.700 can't

00:50:48.960 see

00:50:49.180 it

00:50:49.380 and

00:50:50.300 so

00:50:50.540 not

00:50:51.060 only

00:50:51.240 that

00:50:51.580 if

00:50:51.940 you

00:50:52.060 take

00:50:52.260 those

00:50:52.460 people

00:50:52.780 and

00:50:54.100 you

00:50:54.220 show

00:50:54.400 them

00:50:54.580 faces

00:50:54.940 of

00:50:55.200 people

00:50:55.440 who

00:50:55.580 are

00:50:55.700 afraid

00:50:56.080 they'll

00:50:56.800 show

00:50:57.020 galvanic

00:50:57.580 skin

00:50:57.800 response

00:50:58.300 if

00:50:58.480 you

00:50:58.600 test

00:50:58.960 them

00:50:59.120 psychophysiologically

00:51:00.060 so

00:51:00.660 even

00:51:00.860 though

00:51:01.040 they

00:51:01.200 cannot

00:51:01.560 report

00:51:02.280 seeing

00:51:02.640 the

00:51:02.840 face

00:51:03.180 the

00:51:03.920 circuits

00:51:04.520 that

00:51:04.800 detect

00:51:05.380 fear

00:51:05.980 on

00:51:06.400 the

00:51:06.760 facial

00:51:08.060 displays

00:51:08.520 of

00:51:08.680 other

00:51:08.880 primates

00:51:09.400 are

00:51:13.200 response

00:51:13.700 that's

00:51:13.960 associated

00:51:14.400 with

00:51:14.680 fear

00:51:14.980 so

00:51:16.120 perception

00:51:16.820 is very

00:51:17.180 complicated

00:51:17.760 and it

00:51:18.320 maps

00:51:18.800 onto

00:51:19.220 you

00:51:19.520 so

00:51:20.960 that

00:51:21.100 you

00:51:21.220 can

00:51:21.360 react

00:51:21.660 very

00:51:21.900 very

00:51:22.100 rapidly

00:51:22.540 reflexively

00:51:23.460 well

00:51:24.180 you see

00:51:24.420 that

00:51:24.580 when you

00:51:24.800 put

00:51:24.920 your

00:51:25.020 hand

00:51:25.200 on

00:51:25.320 a

00:51:25.420 hot

00:51:25.580 stove

00:51:25.960 right 0.99

00:51:26.220 jerk 0.96

00:51:27.400 away

00:51:27.720 that's

00:51:28.220 just

00:51:28.380 a

00:51:28.540 spinal

00:51:28.900 reflex

00:51:29.460 so

00:51:30.180 the

00:51:30.720 reflex

00:51:31.640 is

00:51:31.900 here

00:51:32.200 to

00:51:32.660 here

00:51:32.860 and

00:51:33.020 back

00:51:33.360 it's

00:51:33.540 very

00:51:33.720 fast

00:51:34.200 and

00:51:34.880 then

00:51:35.280 the

00:51:36.440 pain

00:51:36.680 comes

00:51:37.080 you

00:51:37.520 think

00:51:37.680 well

00:51:37.820 I

00:51:37.960 pulled

00:51:38.920 my

00:51:39.120 hand

00:51:39.360 away

00:51:39.580 from

00:51:39.800 the

00:51:39.960 fire

00:51:40.260 because

00:51:40.940 it

00:51:41.120 hurt

00:51:41.360 it's

00:51:41.580 like

00:51:41.700 no

00:51:41.840 you

00:51:41.980 didn't

00:51:42.980 you

00:51:43.700 hurt

00:51:44.000 so

00:51:44.200 that

00:51:44.300 you

00:51:44.360 don't

00:51:44.480 put

00:51:44.640 your 1.00

00:51:44.760 damn 1.00

00:51:44.980 hand 1.00

00:51:45.300 on

00:51:45.420 the

00:51:45.540 fire

00:51:45.740 again

00:51:46.200 but

00:51:47.440 waiting

00:51:48.020 for

00:51:48.240 the

00:51:48.400 pain

00:51:48.680 means

00:51:49.080 you're

00:51:49.700 so

00:51:50.420 burnt

00:51:50.660 you'll

00:51:50.840 never

00:51:51.020 recover

00:51:51.440 so

00:51:52.100 you

00:51:52.220 need

00:51:52.420 to

00:51:52.660 conserve

00:51:53.280 those

00:51:53.580 very

00:51:53.900 basic

00:51:54.440 responses

00:51:55.120 that

00:51:55.600 are

00:51:55.680 still

00:51:55.880 mediated

00:51:56.340 by

00:51:56.560 sensory

00:51:58.260 perception

00:51:58.820 okay

00:51:59.540 so

00:51:59.760 back

00:52:00.000 to

00:52:00.180 the

00:52:00.380 aim

00:52:00.740 idea

00:52:01.240 now

00:52:02.520 let's

00:52:03.400 think

00:52:03.600 about

00:52:03.800 the

00:52:03.960 idea

00:52:04.140 of

00:52:04.280 hunting

00:52:04.620 for

00:52:05.360 a

00:52:05.480 minute

00:52:05.660 so

00:52:06.460 there's

00:52:06.740 a

00:52:06.840 guy

00:52:07.000 named

00:52:07.200 Richard

00:52:07.560 Rangham

00:52:08.160 primatologist

00:52:09.280 I really

00:52:09.720 like

00:52:09.960 he wrote

00:52:10.840 a book

00:52:11.100 about

00:52:11.340 fire

00:52:11.720 which is

00:52:12.120 another

00:52:12.280 book

00:52:12.500 I'd

00:52:12.720 recommend

00:52:13.100 can't

00:52:13.740 remember

00:52:14.020 the name

00:52:14.420 raising

00:52:15.500 fire

00:52:16.060 is that

00:52:16.440 it

00:52:16.640 catching

00:52:17.320 fire

00:52:17.780 that's

00:52:18.360 the name

00:52:18.640 of the

00:52:18.900 book

00:52:19.120 and

00:52:19.640 Rangham

00:52:20.080 is a

00:52:20.340 good

00:52:20.640 primatologist

00:52:21.400 he also

00:52:21.960 wrote a

00:52:22.320 book

00:52:22.460 called

00:52:22.700 demonic

00:52:23.220 males 0.98

00:52:23.640 which is

00:52:24.060 a study

00:52:24.480 of

00:52:24.700 male

00:52:25.240 aggression

00:52:25.620 across

00:52:26.000 primate

00:52:26.440 species

00:52:26.840 which I'd

00:52:27.240 also

00:52:27.460 highly

00:52:27.780 recommend

00:52:28.280 it's

00:52:28.700 nice

00:52:28.880 biological

00:52:29.560 analysis

00:52:30.080 of the

00:52:30.520 proclivity

00:52:31.000 of male

00:52:31.940 apes

00:52:32.500 of which

00:52:33.220 we're a

00:52:33.620 subset

00:52:34.000 to be

00:52:34.760 aggressive

00:52:35.260 which is

00:52:35.760 why

00:52:36.080 10 times

00:52:36.720 as many

00:52:37.060 prisoners

00:52:37.420 are men

00:52:37.960 than women 0.99

00:52:38.720 it's not

00:52:39.260 a social

00:52:39.680 construct

00:52:40.180 and it's

00:52:40.580 not

00:52:40.720 prejudice

00:52:41.240 of the

00:52:41.680 legal

00:52:41.880 system

00:52:42.280 against

00:52:42.600 men

00:52:42.960 though

00:52:43.520 you know

00:52:43.800 in our

00:52:44.120 climate

00:52:44.460 that'd

00:52:44.760 be a

00:52:44.940 logical

00:52:45.240 conclusion

00:52:45.800 so

00:52:46.640 well

00:52:47.200 right

00:52:47.520 it's

00:52:47.700 like

00:52:47.860 let's

00:52:48.180 raise

00:52:48.420 the

00:52:48.600 proportion

00:52:49.000 of

00:52:49.200 female 0.86

00:52:49.520 prisoners

00:52:49.920 to

00:52:50.160 50%

00:52:50.800 so we

00:52:51.300 have

00:52:51.480 an

00:52:51.600 equity

00:52:51.820 really

00:52:52.400 look

00:52:53.560 I

00:52:55.820 talked

00:52:56.300 I talked

00:52:57.380 to

00:52:57.560 scientists

00:52:58.100 back

00:52:58.520 in the

00:52:58.800 1990s

00:52:59.800 I was

00:53:00.280 at a

00:53:00.520 NATO

00:53:00.760 conference

00:53:01.320 in

00:53:01.580 northern

00:53:01.840 Italy

00:53:02.140 and there

00:53:02.780 were

00:53:02.900 three women 0.95

00:53:03.440 on this

00:53:04.200 panel

00:53:04.520 on childhood

00:53:05.000 aggression

00:53:05.400 and here

00:53:06.100 was their 1.00

00:53:06.500 damn 1.00

00:53:06.840 conclusion 1.00

00:53:07.280 this was

00:53:07.640 back in

00:53:08.000 the

00:53:08.080 1990s

00:53:08.740 so

00:53:09.460 there's

00:53:10.480 a

00:53:10.620 psychiatric

00:53:11.000 category

00:53:11.720 called

00:53:12.260 childhood

00:53:12.860 conduct

00:53:13.260 disorder

00:53:13.740 and it's

00:53:14.540 the precursor

00:53:15.460 to adult

00:53:16.080 antisocial

00:53:16.720 behavior

00:53:17.180 it's really

00:53:17.640 the same

00:53:18.060 thing

00:53:18.400 it's just

00:53:19.000 how it

00:53:19.260 manifests

00:53:19.680 itself

00:53:20.060 in

00:53:20.240 childhood

00:53:20.540 and there's

00:53:21.160 way more

00:53:21.680 boys

00:53:22.020 that get

00:53:22.460 diagnosed

00:53:22.880 with

00:53:23.140 childhood

00:53:23.500 conduct

00:53:23.900 disorder

00:53:24.360 than

00:53:24.600 girls 0.98

00:53:25.020 and so

00:53:26.280 their idea

00:53:27.640 was to

00:53:28.180 eliminate 0.75

00:53:28.820 those

00:53:29.480 diagnostic

00:53:30.200 markers

00:53:30.680 that

00:53:31.020 discriminated

00:53:31.860 between

00:53:32.180 the boys

00:53:32.580 and the girls

00:53:33.060 because they

00:53:33.520 thought it was

00:53:33.920 unfair that

00:53:34.560 more boys

00:53:35.080 were being

00:53:35.560 unfair to

00:53:36.480 women 1.00

00:53:36.740 that more

00:53:37.400 boys were

00:53:37.820 being categorized

00:53:38.600 as aggressive

00:53:40.000 than girls 0.63

00:53:41.540 and my mouth

00:53:42.840 was

00:53:43.040 this was like

00:53:43.980 I was like

00:53:44.380 25 when

00:53:45.140 I thought

00:53:45.560 what the hell

00:53:46.340 is wrong 1.00

00:53:46.800 with you

00:53:47.160 the only reason

00:53:48.120 that we care

00:53:48.900 about aggression

00:53:49.640 fundamentally

00:53:50.660 is because

00:53:51.220 it manifests

00:53:52.300 itself in

00:53:52.820 adulthood

00:53:53.180 in extreme

00:53:54.100 physical

00:53:54.560 violence

00:53:55.160 that's

00:53:55.960 the problem

00:53:56.780 the extreme

00:53:57.660 physical

00:53:58.040 violence

00:53:58.460 what you're

00:53:58.920 proposing

00:53:59.320 is to

00:53:59.880 gerrymander

00:54:00.540 the diagnostic

00:54:01.200 criteria

00:54:01.800 by removing

00:54:02.940 the marker

00:54:03.680 that actually

00:54:04.740 signals the

00:54:05.860 existence of

00:54:06.580 the problem

00:54:07.280 and then that'll

00:54:08.180 undermine the

00:54:08.680 science so that we

00:54:09.280 never actually

00:54:09.780 study violence

00:54:10.600 but that's okay

00:54:11.520 because then half

00:54:12.300 the boys

00:54:12.780 and an equal

00:54:13.660 number of boys

00:54:14.240 and girls

00:54:14.560 would be

00:54:14.860 classified as

00:54:15.520 violent

00:54:15.940 it was

00:54:16.640 absolutely

00:54:17.120 I thought that

00:54:17.740 was absolutely

00:54:18.280 insane

00:54:18.760 and now that's

00:54:19.340 like the norm

00:54:20.440 that's normative

00:54:21.460 thinking

00:54:22.000 among a huge

00:54:22.840 section of the

00:54:23.700 of the

00:54:24.440 what would you

00:54:26.120 say the social

00:54:26.780 constructionist

00:54:27.540 community

00:54:28.060 anyways

00:54:29.040 Richard

00:54:30.380 rang him

00:54:30.820 wrote this

00:54:31.500 book on fire

00:54:32.200 catching fire

00:54:33.000 and he

00:54:33.360 proposed

00:54:33.920 that we've

00:54:35.980 been using

00:54:36.480 fire for

00:54:36.980 two million

00:54:37.480 years

00:54:37.940 which is

00:54:38.540 longer than

00:54:38.980 most primatologists

00:54:40.340 and anthropologists

00:54:41.460 believe that we've

00:54:42.120 been using fire

00:54:42.700 he did an analysis

00:54:43.780 of our digestive

00:54:45.100 structure

00:54:45.620 so you've seen

00:54:46.940 chimps

00:54:47.460 you know how a

00:54:48.500 chimp looks 0.56

00:54:49.040 eh

00:54:49.260 chimps about this

00:54:50.460 high

00:54:50.760 very very

00:54:51.760 powerful

00:54:52.180 about four

00:54:52.960 times as strong

00:54:53.820 as a really

00:54:54.240 strong man

00:54:54.880 but shaped

00:54:55.680 kind of like

00:54:56.140 this

00:54:56.540 like they're

00:54:56.960 really wide

00:54:57.820 and the reason

00:54:59.400 they're wide

00:54:59.800 is because

00:55:00.220 they're mostly

00:55:01.000 intestinal tract

00:55:02.160 and the reason

00:55:03.340 they're mostly

00:55:03.760 intestinal tract

00:55:04.600 is because most

00:55:05.280 of what they

00:55:05.780 eat are leaves

00:55:06.780 and you might

00:55:07.920 think well

00:55:08.440 be good to

00:55:09.280 just eat leaves

00:55:10.040 but here's

00:55:10.920 the problem

00:55:11.580 is chimps

00:55:12.600 spend about

00:55:13.180 eight hours

00:55:13.640 a day

00:55:13.940 chewing

00:55:14.460 because

00:55:16.240 leaves aren't

00:55:17.080 actually edible

00:55:17.860 and so if

00:55:19.020 you're going to

00:55:19.360 eat leaves

00:55:19.900 like if you're

00:55:20.400 a panda 0.99

00:55:20.900 those crazy

00:55:21.900 animals only 0.85

00:55:22.500 eat bamboo

00:55:23.140 shoots

00:55:23.600 it's no

00:55:23.920 bloody wonder

00:55:24.380 they're almost

00:55:24.820 extinct

00:55:25.520 it's like

00:55:26.200 bad choice

00:55:27.720 there guys

00:55:28.340 every seven

00:55:29.860 years

00:55:30.200 the bamboo

00:55:30.920 shoot crop

00:55:31.800 fails

00:55:32.420 on average

00:55:33.720 that's really

00:55:34.320 hard on the

00:55:34.780 pandas

00:55:35.220 anyways

00:55:35.960 anyways

00:55:39.060 chimps

00:55:40.460 have a huge

00:55:41.520 digestive tract

00:55:42.960 because they

00:55:43.780 eat the stuff

00:55:44.340 that's basically

00:55:44.940 inedible

00:55:45.400 and they have

00:55:45.780 to spend

00:55:46.060 all their

00:55:46.340 time chewing

00:55:46.900 whereas human

00:55:47.680 beings

00:55:48.100 hypothetically

00:55:49.480 we figured out

00:55:50.700 how to hunt

00:55:51.380 and we hunted

00:55:52.600 collectively

00:55:53.220 and then we

00:55:54.120 figured out

00:55:54.520 how to cook

00:55:55.180 and so

00:55:55.960 Wrangham's

00:55:56.440 thesis is

00:55:56.940 we traded

00:55:58.000 gut for

00:55:59.040 brain

00:55:59.580 which you

00:56:00.980 know

00:56:01.060 was arguably

00:56:01.600 a good

00:56:01.980 trade

00:56:02.400 and because

00:56:03.300 cooked food

00:56:03.860 is much

00:56:04.240 more nutritionally

00:56:05.100 dense

00:56:05.360 especially if

00:56:06.080 it's high

00:56:06.560 in protein

00:56:07.040 and fat 0.99

00:56:07.540 and that's

00:56:08.280 what you

00:56:08.480 get if

00:56:08.780 you hunt

00:56:09.160 and so

00:56:09.920 the hunter

00:56:10.580 think about

00:56:11.460 a hunter

00:56:11.840 a hunter

00:56:12.180 has an

00:56:12.600 aim

00:56:12.860 right

00:56:13.160 an aim

00:56:13.840 is an

00:56:14.140 animal

00:56:14.420 obviously

00:56:14.900 to bring

00:56:15.260 down

00:56:15.460 an animal

00:56:15.840 and then

00:56:16.080 you think

00:56:16.360 about

00:56:16.540 well

00:56:16.780 what's

00:56:17.460 the implication

00:56:18.140 of that

00:56:18.780 for what

00:56:19.660 we're like

00:56:20.300 well human

00:56:21.080 beings are

00:56:21.460 very interesting

00:56:22.100 creatures

00:56:22.560 right

00:56:22.900 because

00:56:23.180 well we

00:56:23.860 stand up

00:56:24.360 on two feet

00:56:24.920 so we can

00:56:25.320 see a long

00:56:25.800 distance

00:56:26.120 and we can

00:56:26.640 really see

00:56:27.320 we've got

00:56:28.100 great vision

00:56:28.660 and we can

00:56:29.460 really run

00:56:30.220 you know

00:56:31.040 like an

00:56:31.880 adult human

00:56:32.480 being can

00:56:32.960 run almost

00:56:33.840 any animal

00:56:34.680 to death

00:56:35.320 over the

00:56:35.760 course of

00:56:36.160 a week

00:56:36.520 if he's

00:56:37.060 in good

00:56:37.340 shape

00:56:37.680 and so

00:56:38.320 lots of

00:56:38.800 lots of

00:56:39.440 hunters

00:56:39.860 the bushman

00:56:40.900 in the

00:56:41.340 Kalahari

00:56:41.640 desert

00:56:41.900 for example

00:56:42.360 they just

00:56:42.900 run down

00:56:43.340 their prey

00:56:43.760 they just

00:56:44.420 keep running

00:56:44.880 after them

00:56:45.360 until they 0.98

00:56:45.740 basically die 0.68

00:56:46.620 now they 0.92

00:56:47.220 have poison

00:56:47.940 darts

00:56:48.320 and those

00:56:48.660 things also

00:56:49.180 work but

00:56:49.600 a lot of

00:56:49.920 it's just

00:56:50.220 they just

00:56:50.520 run the

00:56:50.860 animals to

00:56:51.280 exhaustion

00:56:51.700 and a

00:56:52.380 man in

00:56:52.740 good shape

00:56:53.140 can run

00:56:53.560 a horse

00:56:54.020 to death

00:56:54.460 in something

00:56:54.840 like a

00:56:55.220 week

00:56:55.500 so we're

00:56:56.820 really good

00:56:57.300 at running

00:56:57.700 and so

00:56:58.800 we can run

00:56:59.200 things down

00:56:59.820 and we're

00:57:00.900 really good

00:57:01.280 at taking

00:57:01.680 aim

00:57:02.020 then you

00:57:02.580 think well

00:57:03.000 how good

00:57:03.980 are we

00:57:04.280 at taking

00:57:04.740 aim

00:57:05.040 how deeply

00:57:05.880 is that

00:57:06.260 built into

00:57:06.800 us

00:57:07.060 well look

00:57:07.640 think about

00:57:08.420 what we do

00:57:09.000 first of all

00:57:09.640 we can

00:57:09.980 throw

00:57:10.500 right now 0.95

00:57:11.680 a chimp 0.65

00:57:12.180 can throw 0.97

00:57:12.640 a punch 0.99

00:57:13.080 and so

00:57:13.400 can a

00:57:13.680 kangaroo

00:57:14.080 so there's

00:57:14.640 some other

00:57:15.000 animals that

00:57:15.580 can punch

00:57:16.060 but we can

00:57:16.560 really throw

00:57:17.000 a punch 0.99

00:57:17.380 but we're

00:57:18.380 the only

00:57:18.680 creatures that

00:57:19.260 we know of

00:57:19.760 that can

00:57:20.060 throw a

00:57:20.460 projectile

00:57:21.220 and to

00:57:22.120 throw a

00:57:22.420 projectile

00:57:22.920 you have

00:57:23.140 to specify

00:57:23.640 a target

00:57:24.200 and then

00:57:24.800 you have

00:57:25.000 to throw

00:57:25.420 at the

00:57:25.760 projectile

00:57:26.280 right and

00:57:26.560 then you

00:57:26.740 have to

00:57:27.020 hit it

00:57:27.420 and so

00:57:28.160 and if

00:57:28.900 your success

00:57:29.740 in hunting

00:57:30.240 is dependent

00:57:30.820 on that

00:57:31.220 it doesn't

00:57:31.680 matter if

00:57:32.080 you're

00:57:32.300 throwing a

00:57:32.980 rock

00:57:33.340 or wielding

00:57:34.380 a stick

00:57:34.840 or maybe

00:57:35.500 using a

00:57:36.060 bow

00:57:36.340 or using

00:57:37.000 a javelin

00:57:37.720 or something

00:57:38.120 like that

00:57:38.600 it's all

00:57:39.080 target

00:57:39.720 specification

00:57:40.520 and aim

00:57:41.060 so that

00:57:41.380 you hit

00:57:41.640 the target

00:57:42.160 right so

00:57:43.220 that makes

00:57:43.580 you a 0.57

00:57:43.840 hunter

00:57:44.080 but then

00:57:45.100 you hunt

00:57:45.380 collectively

00:57:45.980 so that

00:57:46.660 makes it

00:57:47.020 more interesting

00:57:48.440 you think

00:57:49.040 well what's

00:57:49.380 a collective

00:57:49.860 hunter

00:57:50.260 like

00:57:50.680 so then

00:57:51.620 you think

00:57:51.920 well what's

00:57:52.240 the point

00:57:52.620 of hunting

00:57:53.120 and the

00:57:54.140 point of

00:57:54.440 hunting

00:57:54.660 is to

00:57:55.140 bring down

00:57:56.000 an animal

00:57:56.460 okay

00:57:57.520 the point

00:57:58.160 of bringing

00:57:58.580 down the

00:57:58.880 animal

00:57:59.100 is to

00:57:59.360 eat

00:57:59.660 but

00:58:00.680 and the

00:58:01.040 point

00:58:01.220 of eating

00:58:01.480 is to

00:58:01.860 survive

00:58:02.360 but

00:58:03.660 the point

00:58:05.120 of eating

00:58:05.980 to survive

00:58:06.540 isn't to

00:58:07.080 survive

00:58:07.600 so that you

00:58:09.060 can just

00:58:09.480 have that

00:58:10.140 animal

00:58:10.560 the point

00:58:11.520 of eating

00:58:11.820 to survive

00:58:12.340 is so that

00:58:12.740 you don't

00:58:13.220 starve

00:58:13.800 so then

00:58:14.980 the question

00:58:15.420 might be

00:58:15.940 well what

00:58:17.760 makes a

00:58:18.180 good hunter

00:58:18.780 and the

00:58:19.800 answer might

00:58:20.240 be well

00:58:20.720 someone who

00:58:21.380 can take

00:58:21.780 aim

00:58:22.100 and fair

00:58:23.320 enough

00:58:23.660 and who

00:58:24.100 can throw

00:58:24.540 so there's

00:58:25.040 prowess and

00:58:25.860 accuracy that's

00:58:26.660 associated with

00:58:27.260 that but

00:58:27.560 let's say you

00:58:28.340 start to hunt

00:58:28.840 collectively and

00:58:29.520 even monkeys

00:58:30.000 do that or

00:58:30.620 chimpanzees do 1.00

00:58:31.540 that by the

00:58:32.020 way so

00:58:32.940 so the

00:58:33.400 precursors are

00:58:34.320 laid down

00:58:34.780 far far

00:58:35.740 down in

00:58:36.120 the primatology

00:58:37.160 in our

00:58:38.160 primate lineage

00:58:38.960 so imagine

00:58:41.160 that to be a

00:58:41.600 good hunter you

00:58:42.080 have to be able

00:58:42.540 to aim

00:58:43.080 and see

00:58:44.500 and throw

00:58:45.100 and so you

00:58:46.160 take aim

00:58:46.680 and you have

00:58:47.020 a point

00:58:47.460 all of that

00:58:48.100 and you can

00:58:48.640 point things

00:58:49.280 out to other

00:58:49.800 people

00:58:50.180 but then imagine

00:58:51.460 that you also

00:58:51.960 have to be able

00:58:52.560 to organize

00:58:53.160 the hunt

00:58:53.660 because if you

00:58:55.200 can organize

00:58:55.680 the hunt

00:58:56.020 even if you

00:58:56.600 even if you

00:58:57.340 can't aim

00:58:57.840 yourself

00:58:58.380 if you can

00:58:59.140 organize a

00:58:59.600 hunt

00:58:59.860 well then

00:59:00.660 you're really

00:59:00.940 valuable

00:59:01.340 because that's

00:59:02.120 like a

00:59:02.480 meta aim

00:59:03.100 right

00:59:03.440 if you have

00:59:04.020 20 people

00:59:04.560 who can hunt

00:59:05.020 and you can

00:59:05.440 organize them

00:59:06.180 it's like

00:59:06.940 that's an aim

00:59:08.140 it's a

00:59:09.220 meta aim

00:59:09.780 it's like

00:59:10.140 you've taken

00:59:10.700 the idea

00:59:11.140 of aim

00:59:11.440 and you've

00:59:13.820 transmuted it into a sociological abstraction

00:59:14.920 you've transmuted it into something like a form of ethical behavior

00:59:19.040 how can we organize ourselves tribally so that we can hunt effectively together

00:59:23.260 and then not just this hunt right

00:59:25.320 because yeah we're going to hunt tomorrow but then we're going to hunt next week and we're

00:59:28.900 going to hunt next year and we're going to hunt a year from now and our children

00:59:32.460 are going to hunt with us and so it isn't just one hunt it's many many hunts and

00:59:36.840 so then we have to organize our tribe so that when we hunt we split the food up so that the

00:59:42.240 group stays coherent enough so that we can continue the hunt across time

00:59:46.860 well then you can just you don't have to use your imagination very hard to understand

00:59:52.060 how an ethic can emerge from that

00:59:54.420 it's a kind of game

00:59:55.720 you know

00:59:56.440 one thing i've lectured about fairly extensively is the idea of the emergence of morality from

01:00:01.440 the structure of games

01:00:02.480 like you should play a game to win now most games have a point and a name which is another

01:00:08.000 indication i think of our fundamental hunting background right because you think about all

01:00:12.660 the things we do for entertainment they're very hunting like you know so basically what what a

01:00:18.560 basketball team is doing with the basketball is hunting down the hoop with the ball and so when

01:00:23.820 everyone's into that they organize themselves into little hunting teams and they compete and it's

01:00:28.340 so exciting that everybody will sit in the audience and watch that and then we're really

01:00:31.360 excited when we see someone do something that's particularly athletically spectacular but we're

01:00:37.140 also impressed when we see someone do something athletically spectacular in a way that's of

01:00:42.380 maximal benefit to the rest of the team or that maybe even transforms the whole game right because

01:00:47.240 that's even better than you see a great athlete who's a great sportsman and then you think that's

01:00:51.140 a great person it's like that's a good idea it's like that's the person who's got a name but who's

01:00:56.560 transmuted the aim as well so that they modify the entire structure of the cooperative game so that

01:01:02.160 it becomes a better game and that's a better aim and that makes you a better hunter think well why

01:01:07.120 does it make you a better hunter it's like well do you want food today or do you want food for the

01:01:10.940 rest of your life and so here's a rule if you're going to be a good hunter share what you kill

01:01:16.160 now that's something and then you think well what are you hunting then you're hunting reputation

01:01:21.920 reputation all of a sudden instead of hunting animals you're hunting reputation it's like oh

01:01:25.980 you can trust him man you go for a hunt with him you get a little more than your fair share

01:01:31.080 so then everybody lines up to hunt with that guy and then well he's he's set perhaps for the rest of

01:01:37.340 his life and maybe even if he's old or maybe he's having an off day all those people with whom he's

01:01:42.100 hunted with properly think you know we owe him something and they're very concerned about maintaining

01:01:47.980 their reputation as well so you can see how i see i've become very interested in the emergence of

01:01:53.600 ethics from the biological substrate and one of the things that happened when i was discussing

01:01:59.280 the relationship between facts and values with sam harris like harris has got an an interesting

01:02:05.060 problem to solve see harris wants to ground ethics in something that isn't just arbitrary opinion

01:02:13.720 and so that's why he makes a strong case that you can derive values from facts that's his his

01:02:20.200 motivation and he has other motivations like he would he would rather that people didn't suffer

01:02:24.800 any more than necessary and if you act ethically maybe that's associated with the amelioration of

01:02:29.520 suffering and if you can ground that in something solid then we can come to agreement about how we

01:02:34.240 should all act to ameliorate suffering good you know that all seems reasonable but the grounding of

01:02:40.020 value in fact is very very difficult you don't get from the array of facts to the world of values

01:02:45.880 without very complex intermediary stages and so what i've been trying to puzzle out is what those

01:02:51.220 intermediary stages are so that that's the hunting story it's like you think about how the idea of an

01:02:56.860 aim is transmuted and so let me let me give you a further transmutation of that so remember the story

01:03:03.380 of pinocchio and so so geppetto has an aim right and it's it's it's turned into a cosmological aim

01:03:12.060 interestingly enough because what you see at the beginning of the movie is geppetto produces a child

01:03:17.500 essentially who's a marionette not autonomous pulled motivated and moved by forces that are beyond his

01:03:24.840 control voiceless wooden-headed and naive right but full of possibility well what that and born one of the

01:03:32.520 things that's interesting about the pinocchio movie if you remember how it opens most how many of you

01:03:36.780 have seen how many of you haven't seen that okay so virtually everybody's seen that so you know what

01:03:41.720 i'm talking about when the book when the movie opens there's a book and the cricket is showing you

01:03:45.920 the book jc is the cricket right and so that's southern u.s slang for jesus christ by the way so in

01:03:52.440 pinocchio jesus christ is a cricket which is very peculiar and to say the least even though you'll swallow it

01:03:59.000 so to speak without even noticing he shows you a book so you're being taught by a cricket named

01:04:03.980 jiminy cricket who's an analog of jesus christ to look at a leather-bound book and in the picture

01:04:09.860 there's a nativity scene with a star and that's when pinocchio is born so that ties that means that

01:04:15.540 there's an association between pinocchio and the divine hero and the divine hero is always threatened

01:04:20.940 at birth like moses was uh and and and and and pinocchio is of course a wooden-headed naive puppet

01:04:27.780 who's a marionette right he's nothing at birth but he could be something and so then geppetto puts a

01:04:34.600 mouth on him so to give him a voice and then goes to bed and has a wish dream like and that and that's

01:04:42.300 when the movie becomes even more deeply symbolic but what geppetto does is wish on a star now stars are

01:04:48.400 very interesting from a metaphorical perspective because a star is something that glimmers in the

01:04:54.840 night right it's a source of light in the darkness and if you go outside and you look up in the stars

01:05:00.800 then you're you're confronting infinity in some sense and it's actually been a real catastrophe for

01:05:06.620 people i think to be enveloped in light pollution because one of the primordial experiences of mankind

01:05:11.500 is to go out at night and to look up into the vastness of space and to confront infinity right i mean

01:05:18.120 you could do that every night and now it's like two stars in a kind of an orange sky but but so so

01:05:23.840 the star is also associated with infinity and then it's associated with the idea of lifting your eyes

01:05:30.040 above the horizon you know so if you have a proximal goal then you're not very noble-minded but if you

01:05:34.860 have a distal goal that forces you to lift your eyes above the horizon then you have a noble goal

01:05:40.160 it's like a meta goal and a meta goal is a goal that enables you to achieve all sorts of sub goals at

01:05:45.080 the same time right so if you have a good goal for your life it means that pursuing that goal will

01:05:51.040 help you in a bunch of ways simultaneously and that's what you want if you're going to aim at

01:05:56.200 something you might as well aim at something that works in a large way across a large scale of time

01:06:01.720 and so what you might say is that the thing that you should aim at most is the way that you should

01:06:06.720 act that would solve the most problems at the same time over the longest period of time for the

01:06:10.560 largest number of people it's something like that and i do think that our ethical systems and i think

01:06:15.820 this is coded in our religious stories essentially our ethical systems are attempts using our dreamlike

01:06:21.940 intuition to build up structures of ethics that have exactly and to provide us with aims that have

01:06:26.700 exactly that purpose even though we don't necessarily understand what we're doing because

01:06:31.160 it's so complicated but anyways geppetto has an aim and what he does is aim at a star now you think too

01:06:37.340 the other thing about stars is that human beings have always used stars to orient themselves in the

01:06:41.580 world to actually find direction right because well once people figured out the north star they mapped

01:06:47.460 the constellations they figured out the north star which was a stable point at night they could orient

01:06:52.080 themselves in space and once they figured out how the stars changed across the seasons then they

01:06:57.760 could orient themselves in time so it's actually the case that if you consult the stars you can orient

01:07:01.900 yourself in time and space and so that's another reason why you might look to the heavens and so

01:07:06.280 that's why geppetto wishes upon a star and what he does when he wishes upon a star is that he hopes

01:07:10.860 that the thing that he's created can become genuine can become autonomous and real and that's the

01:07:17.240 highest of aims and that's exactly right and so then this this transformation story that's associated

01:07:24.220 with pinocchio is a story of of that coming to be right pinocchio has to fight against deceit

01:07:29.720 because that's a major temptation that's why his nose grows he has to fight against being a neurotic

01:07:34.460 victim because the cat and the fox convince him to shirk his duties because he's sick and he needs a

01:07:40.340 holiday on pleasure island it's like his university advertisement essentially are you sick and

01:07:45.340 victimized come to pleasure island our university will allow you to extend your adolescence for four

01:07:50.660 years with no responsibility and all you have to do is sacrifice your entire financial future to

01:07:55.200 our administrators what a deal so pinocchio has to go through these these sequence of temptations 0.94

01:08:10.780 right and he turns into a brain jackass as a consequence of his pleasure seeking victimization

01:08:16.200 it's like jesus you just can't make this stuff up it's absolutely amazing that that was coded in a movie

01:08:21.280 like 70 years ago so and then strangely enough the the in the in the climax scene he has to go to the

01:08:28.620 bottom of the world to rescue his father from a whale right and that's the thing that transforms him

01:08:34.260 finally into an autonomous individual and it's a very strange thing too and i did figure out more about

01:08:39.160 what that meant in the last few weeks so thought so here's a cool this is so cool this really took me

01:08:44.620 like 30 years to figure out that why in the world would your father be resting in a beast at the

01:08:51.160 bottom of the abyss what could that possibly mean and this is a bit of a side trip but that's okay

01:08:56.380 we'll take it anyways um we know that you grow in strength in proportion to your willingness to

01:09:03.400 voluntarily confront sequential challenges okay everybody follows that right and that's what you

01:09:08.340 do with a kid if you want to make the kid grow it's like well here's a little challenge

01:09:11.380 you can't do it yet or if you do do it it's going to stretch you out right it's a bit beyond your

01:09:16.820 capacity it's in the zone of proximal development that's a that's a uh uh what would you say a a way

01:09:24.960 of being that was characterized by a russian psychologist named vygotsky what he observed was

01:09:29.460 that adults tended to speak to their their infant children at a level of linguistic complexity that was

01:09:35.440 slightly above their level of comprehension and they did that automatically so when you're training

01:09:40.760 your child to talk which you do unconsciously you talk to them using vocabulary that's a little

01:09:45.660 more complex they can actually understand and that pulls them along that's the zone so that's

01:09:51.080 where the idea of the zone comes in you're in the zone it's the zone of proximal development

01:09:54.420 you're optimally challenging yourself and that's where the meaning is okay so we know that if you

01:09:59.260 optimally challenge yourself you develop and then the question is well what do you develop into

01:10:03.780 and the answer to that is something like well you develop into what you could be

01:10:07.840 and the question is well what could you be and the answer to that is something like well you could

01:10:14.160 be the full revelation of your potential and some of that's ancestral potential because you're actually

01:10:19.240 in some sense you're three and a half billion years old right because life is continuous and so

01:10:25.960 there's potential locked inside of you in all sorts of different ways and the way that you call that

01:10:31.540 potential forward is by challenging yourself and say well how much should you challenge yourself

01:10:37.560 and the answer that might be well it depends on what you want to call forward the more you want

01:10:42.640 to call forward out of yourself the more you should challenge yourself okay so what's the ultimate

01:10:47.600 challenge what's to look into the abyss and so what's the abyss well maybe that's mortality that that would

01:10:55.120 be part of it maybe that's malevolence as well let's say suffering and evil that'll do the trick

01:11:02.020 that's the abyss and what's in the abyss is the predator that lurks so what happens if you gaze

01:11:08.680 forth rightly on the predator in the abyss that lurks and this is the theme of pinocchio

01:11:12.800 you discover your ancestral father why because if you voluntarily take on the heaviest load that you

01:11:20.420 can possibly bear then you'll call forth from within you that which you could be and that's equivalent

01:11:26.340 to the ancestral father and that's the story of pinocchio it's like just i was so happy to figure

01:11:31.660 that out i couldn't figure that i thought what the hell's going on here why is the father trapped in

01:11:36.300 the belly of the whale it's a fire-breathing dragon in pinocchio why does that make sense because it does

01:11:41.160 make sense to us well that's why it's like and then it's and it's a very optimistic idea right because

01:11:47.640 if you go down to the depths as far as you can go down to the depths of suffering and evil

01:11:52.860 you can find out who you are and what you find out is that you're the thing that can transcend

01:11:57.980 suffering and malevolence and so that that's so interesting too because it's it's an inversion

01:12:03.240 of pessimism you know because you might say well if you're thinking that life has no point no aim

01:12:08.220 has no meaning the reason you think that is because of suffering and evil essentially because if those

01:12:13.420 didn't exist you wouldn't be questioning it's like well what the hell is going on here it's like

01:12:17.440 well life is rife with suffering and and it's made worse by malevolence and that makes things seem

01:12:22.800 pointless i know there's other reasons why they might seem pointless but those are major reasons

01:12:26.620 it's like well what should you do about that run from it no it gets bigger and you get smaller turn

01:12:32.100 and face it voluntarily what happens you discover your ancestral father in the belly of the beast

01:12:37.620 and that means that you start to become who you could be and then the question is who could you be

01:12:41.800 and the answer is you could be the thing that transcends suffering and malevolence and so it's so

01:12:46.620 interesting that's the same and i think that's the same in some sense is wishing on the star because

01:12:50.860 that's the light that beckons in the darkness right that's the ultimate light that beckons in

01:12:54.880 the darkness and so if you don't pull away from the darkness if you can confront it it's your worst

01:13:01.640 fear carl jung said in sterquilinus inventur he derived that from the alchemical literature what you

01:13:07.160 want most will be found where you least want to look that's the hero story in and of itself why

01:13:12.580 because what you can be will not reveal itself unless you challenge yourself out maximally and then the

01:13:18.640 question is well what is it that can reveal itself within you and the answer to that is

01:13:21.920 terrible as suffering and malevolence is and i would say that's it's ultimately terrible in some

01:13:27.840 sense there's something in you that's more powerful than that and so out of that terrible pessimism and

01:13:33.900 that's the pessimism that can be generated by by forthright contemplation of the terror of hunger

01:13:39.100 and privation and the absolutely cataclysmic consequences of human malevolence the more you

01:13:44.420 understand that the more you understand that that's something that you can not only face but

01:13:48.840 also transcend and by transcend i mean two things i mean fix i mean deal with i mean lesson right

01:13:55.760 because you can you can reduce suffering and you can constrain malevolence and you can start with

01:13:59.680 yourself and so you can do it practically but also it works psychologically because there isn't anything

01:14:04.500 more meaningful than that and so that's the proper aim that's the proper aim and so that's what you hunt

01:14:10.640 for if you're a real hunter is that proper aim right that's what you're taking aim at and that's a bit

01:14:16.600 of a description of how that great ethic of aim and meta aim emerged from those that underlying biological

01:14:24.180 platform how it's how it's written into us in some sense so thank you

01:14:30.240 good thing we've got john along yeah that whole on thing man that's a that's a killer

01:14:47.560 i'm an old pro my friend an old pro uh all right well before we dive into any of these since you know

01:14:54.240 we did about 45 shows together or so and we took about a month and a half off here

01:14:58.020 and uh it's good to be back right like you seemed like very sharp jordan peterson tonight

01:15:04.420 what what does jordan peterson do when he's not working eat steak

01:15:09.920 i spend lots of time with my family really that's mostly what i'm doing right what well that's really

01:15:17.800 mostly what i've done ever since i've had kids and got married i would say is you know although i

01:15:22.260 spend a bunch of time with my parents i spend a bunch of time with tammy's family

01:15:25.360 um her sister is going to be traveling with us for the next while i spend a lot of time with my

01:15:32.240 kids i have a new granddaughter she's 13 months old so it's good to spend time with her um

01:15:37.560 and i spend a lot of time i spent quite a bit of time writing i think i've written

01:15:43.820 10 000 words or something like that in the last month and some of that i've you know i've been laying

01:15:49.040 out some of what i've been thinking about tonight that's all being woven in one way or another into

01:15:54.220 the next book i didn't get a real chance to talk about hierarchies tonight which is too bad i mean

01:16:00.040 hierarchy is the way that those meta aims are instantiated in a social context right they're

01:16:04.680 not hierarchies of power they're hierarchies of competence that's a very important thing to know

01:16:09.560 too and so that's something i really want to work out more and more because a lot of the critique of

01:16:14.880 our society especially from the radical left is that western society is a corrupt tyrannical

01:16:20.680 patriarchy something like that based on power it's like well it's not corrupt compared to most

01:16:26.380 cultures and to all cultures throughout history it's actually pretty damn honest it's actually not

01:16:31.700 based on power except when it becomes corrupt it's based on competence competence is the ability to do a

01:16:37.420 job that needs to be done well jobs that need to be done ameliorate suffering and constrain malevolence

01:16:43.500 and so everyone agrees that they need to be done so the idea that hierarchies in and of themselves are

01:16:49.960 are um what would you call them need to be torn down and replaced by completely flat structures is

01:16:57.160 it's an insane idea it's an it lit it's it it it is absolute it's based on an absolute misapprehension

01:17:04.000 of the way the world works of course for the post-modernists there's no actual world so it doesn't matter

01:17:08.580 but so those are the sorts of so what i've done in my time off is spent a lot of time with my family

01:17:14.820 um i've done quite a lot of swimming and a bit of canoeing and uh some reading and a fair bit of

01:17:23.240 writing and a lot of thinking and clarification trying to weave all these things together you know

01:17:28.700 because i'm trying to get everything to come together in this sort of musical way and i'm hoping

01:17:34.460 in my next book so the plan is i want to make the next book i write better than this book i just wrote

01:17:39.360 because i don't want to publish it otherwise it's got to be better and it should extend the thinking

01:17:44.780 that i've done and and make it more elegant and more beautiful and more coherent and more useful all

01:17:50.040 of that and so i i'm thinking all the time about how that might be done and and some of that you know

01:17:56.700 some of that i went through tonight so and that went pretty well i think so jordan peterson swimming

01:18:02.620 sounds like a great youtube channel what do you think when did jordan peterson become a middle-aged

01:18:10.560 male fashion icon um well i'm just reading them i could tell that story well you know

01:18:20.720 in when i when i decided to do this tour so what happened last year is that i did these biblical

01:18:31.980 lectures and we decided to rent a theater to see what would happen and what happened was everybody

01:18:39.160 came to the theater and there was about 500 seats and it sold out all 15 and i thought oh that's

01:18:43.820 pretty interesting who would have guessed that then i went to london and my publishers penguin in london

01:18:50.440 rented a theater of i think 500 600 something like that it sold out in like two minutes so they

01:18:56.180 rented another one of 1500 and it sold out virtually instantly and then i was invited to amsterdam and

01:19:03.540 it sold out and i thought oh that's weird um it looks like i could rent a theater wherever i wanted to

01:19:13.000 and it would sell out and i thought well that's interesting better do something about that and then

01:19:20.280 when i so so and at the same time caa creative artist agency so there's this agency in la called

01:19:26.940 creative artist agency and they represent they represent most of the people that you'd be

01:19:32.280 familiar with in the entertainment world and fortunately they contacted me at about the same

01:19:38.840 time because i think i rented a theater in la by myself and that didn't go that very well yeah that

01:19:43.620 was the orpheum well it didn't go so well with the people i was renting because i phoned them up i said

01:19:47.340 well i'm a professor from toronto and i'd like to rent your theater they thought like we've got a

01:19:53.520 crooked narcissist on the line here you know so so they were very skeptical about about that and and

01:19:59.740 of course i didn't have the connections to do the rentals property and all properly and all that but

01:20:03.560 they did rent it to me and it did sell out so that worked fine but caa showed up and also live nation

01:20:09.300 who's been organizing this tour and so we we talked and started selling venues or renting venues and

01:20:18.580 they were the tickets were going quickly and so then i thought oh that's interesting i'm going to be

01:20:24.780 able to go around the world and talk to people and i thought well i better do that right and i thought

01:20:30.980 well i should probably dress properly and so then i was i was reading my my 12 rules for life book

01:20:39.340 um for penguin well reading it aloud i actually knew what it said since i've written it and everything

01:20:46.300 although you'd be amazed at why you forget you know but jordan reads me a chapter of the book every

01:20:51.840 night before the show it's very nice it's how dave goes to sleep at night so so anyways i was reading

01:20:58.840 it out loud for for audible and uh the guy that was the sound engineer or the no he was the voice coach

01:21:05.640 so he would listen and then if i made a mistake he would tell me and i'd reread it he was very well

01:21:10.520 dressed and i thought oh look he's very well dressed he probably knows something about clothes

01:21:15.180 it was quite market you know so i talked to him a bunch about about clothes and he recommended this

01:21:20.400 place in toronto and so i went there and i let them i they let them provide me with two suits which

01:21:28.480 were way too expensive and i just felt terrible about it i thought jesus you should nobody in their

01:21:32.520 right mind should ever buy a suit for that much money that's just completely insane but i thought

01:21:37.280 no way man i'm gonna it was a nice suit my daughter liked it everybody approved of it i thought no i'm

01:21:43.620 i'm trying to do this right i'm gonna do everything i possibly can to do this as right as i can i thought

01:21:50.140 well i'm gonna be in front of a hundred thousand people it's like buy buy a good suit so i did i bought

01:21:55.840 a couple of them and i bought a couple more and it was actually a good idea i would have never

01:22:00.480 guessed it but but i did write in my rules you know the original list of 40 dress like the person

01:22:06.980 you want to become and so that seems right so that's the story man this is a new one for the occasion

01:22:17.840 i just so what do you think is it good yeah one of the things one of the things that's been fun

01:22:24.320 is that a lot of people who come to these talks the young guys younger guys especially dress up and

01:22:29.460 so i've seen lots of people in suits and that's pretty fun it's like look at that people are

01:22:33.940 dressing like adults they've been dressing like like 10 year olds that have been inflated with a

01:22:39.100 bicycle pump since 1967 so you go to washington that's exactly what it looks like you see the 10

01:22:46.340 year olds they've got shorts on and ugly t-shirts and then their dads exactly the same except pumped up

01:22:52.680 with a bicycle pump yeah so you know i mean washington is a very hot swamp so it's not surprising but

01:22:59.840 still it's not i think it's a mistake i think it's a mistake for people to dress like children

01:23:05.860 you didn't think you weren't going to get a serious answer there did you

01:23:16.920 the real question is did you get your shoes in rochester because i did okay those are nice man

01:23:22.640 there you go can you talk about what it means to be ideologically possessed is there some kind of

01:23:30.080 diagnostic that i can use to tell whether i'm possessed by an idea that is not my own

01:23:36.300 i i don't know if there's a diagnostic you can use yeah yeah there is there is so there's well

01:23:46.540 there's i was thinking about it two ways one was it's very difficult to listen to someone who's

01:23:52.620 ideologically possessed because it gets droney very quickly and the reason that it's not interesting is

01:23:58.620 because well it's it's it's not interesting you can hear it from everyone like i'll give you an

01:24:03.580 example i went and saw john cleese at uh in toronto and i really wanted to go see john cleese i think

01:24:09.960 he's damn funny i really liked monty python when i was a kid and well an adult too and you know and

01:24:15.240 they made some amazing movies and it was interesting to listen to him talk when he talked about the life

01:24:20.800 of brian and about uh um the killer rabbit and all those sorts of things and and you know those were

01:24:27.400 stories that only john cleese could tell and so they were fascinating because he brought all of his

01:24:33.460 accrued wisdom and his wit and he conjoined that with his personal experience and he said things

01:24:38.720 that no one else could say and so he was fascinating but then he talked about trump for 10 minutes and it

01:24:43.780 was like john cleese talking about trump is actually no more interesting than any of you talking about

01:24:49.580 trump it's just it's just not interesting and it's because he moved out of the domain of the

01:24:57.260 conjunction of his personal experience and his and his genius let's say and into the ideological domain

01:25:04.180 and it could have been anyone it it didn't have to be john cleese saying those things it could have

01:25:09.460 been anyone and you can tell that in many political discussions it's like i could just replace this

01:25:14.700 ideologue with this other ideologue and they'd say the same thing i really learned to become aware of

01:25:19.980 that from reading solzhenitsyn's gulag archipelago because he talked a lot about he had a moral

01:25:24.860 conundrum when he was locked in the gulag concentration camps and the conundrum was

01:25:30.060 what do you do with the communists because now and then frequently really radical communists would

01:25:36.740 get thrown into the camps because of course under stalin well under the communists in general

01:25:41.540 everybody got thrown into the camps communists socialists students you if you were human

01:25:48.160 it's camp for you buddy and so and you know being thrown into a camp was no joke and you think well

01:25:55.340 you get imprisoned unjustly the proper response should be compassion but then these radical communists

01:26:04.320 would get thrown in and they would still be radical communists and so socialists didn't know what to do

01:26:08.240 with them it's like are you a perpetrator are you a are you an innocent victim you're some weird amalgam

01:26:16.180 of both so how do i treat you and his answer was like a perpetrator until you wake up and you stop

01:26:24.860 spouting the nonsense and you start coming to grips with the reality of your life and you start making

01:26:29.580 you start you start being a personal like individual right someone that because one of the things i

01:26:36.500 noticed as a clinician is i really loved being a clinical psychologist it was as good as being

01:26:41.120 engrossed in a great novel and sometimes the con but sometimes the conversations would get dull and my

01:26:47.280 attention would wander and i think oh i'm doing this wrong if my attention is wandering then i'm doing it

01:26:52.520 wrong because if i'm actually talking to this person and we're on the thin path of truth then it'd be

01:26:59.500 absolutely engrossing and that was the case if you're speaking and you're boring yourself 0.99

01:27:06.400 and you feel weak and stupid and ashamed and like you're sacrificing your good name and that 0.94

01:27:14.760 people's attention is being distracted it's like it might be that you're not there and if you're not 0.99

01:27:23.000 there then something has control of your voice right remember in pinocchio that pinocchio is turned

01:27:28.620 into brain jackass just before he's enslaved just be that's the risk of enslavement that's the next 0.99

01:27:34.720 thing because when he becomes a full jackass then he's packed off to this salt mines i think by the 0.99

01:27:40.280 dark fascist slave drivers that are in the background it's very very uncanny that part of the movie but 0.68

01:27:47.600 it's exactly right so one of the something i've suggested to people online is listen to what you're

01:27:57.820 saying and if it makes you weak stop saying it and you can feel it i learned this from carl rogers as

01:28:05.060 well because rogers was very interested he's a clinician very interested in this idea of something

01:28:10.860 like psychophysiological integrity and so he believed that if you were having a conversation

01:28:17.920 with someone that was therapeutic and so it was treading this thin line of truth then you were sort

01:28:22.660 of lined up physically and mentally all of you was pointing in the same direction like a piece of

01:28:28.320 music points in the same direction and that you could feel when there was disharmony and that was

01:28:33.920 a sign that you weren't being genuine and i think that's true and you can really learn to feel that

01:28:39.580 and it's it's an uncanny thing to learn though because and i've had students report this to me too

01:28:45.100 when i first started to learn that i noticed that i felt weak when i talked about 95 of the time

01:28:53.220 because almost everything i said was false in some way you know maybe i was trying to appear smart or i

01:29:00.760 was trying to win an argument or i was trying to demonstrate what i knew i guess that's the same as

01:29:05.960 trying to appear smart there was some ulterior motive that was driving my speech instead of just the

01:29:12.880 requirement to say what appeared to be true and so i've practiced since i was about 25 24 to only say

01:29:22.440 things that i believe to be true and and and then to see what happens right and well and those are the

01:29:30.560 sources that was partly from reading solzhenitsyn partly from reading jung because jung believed that

01:29:34.540 psychotherapy in its fundamental essence was a moral endeavor an ethical endeavor and partly from reading

01:29:40.980 rogers who was a good practical guide to this sort of the psychophysiology of of speech so how much of

01:29:49.500 that do you feel when you're doing these talks when you're really in the groove because i can notice on

01:29:53.540 certain nights when i think you're really like tonight and we haven't been doing this for a while i felt

01:29:57.720 like you were really really sharp but there are moments where it like really tightens up yeah well

01:30:02.220 moments when i see you exploring well there's other things too like it you know the the depth that you

01:30:07.980 can reach is also dependent to some degree on your state of mental and physical health you know and

01:30:13.260 so i haven't been at my sharpest this whole tour you know tonight was parts of tonight were good i was

01:30:19.760 i was cooking tonight you know i things were snapping along pretty nicely and

01:30:24.480 but i think i think some of it's because like i've the last two years have been very

01:30:34.000 um challenging let's say and i've got very deep into the social media world and some of that's not

01:30:43.100 been very good for me i've really pulled back from twitter in the last month twitter is really toxic

01:30:47.820 man it's it's rough and so um i think i think putting a bit of a barrier between myself and

01:30:57.280 and the constant barrage of unbelievably vitriolic comments is surprise surprise is somewhat useful

01:31:06.480 like it's taken me a long time to figure out what to do because you know i have 800 000 twitter followers

01:31:11.240 and so you think well you have some responsibility to communicate with all those people because that's

01:31:15.180 a lot of people and maybe there's some good that can come out of it and like these new technologies

01:31:19.360 are very very complex spaces spaces to negotiate and how much you should be in them and how much

01:31:25.400 you should be out of them is very difficult to determine but i pulled myself back a reasonable

01:31:30.300 amount in the last month and we haven't been traveling as much and so i think i got some rest and so

01:31:35.060 i'm probably a little more alert and with it than i have been and maybe less stressed by and you know

01:31:42.100 you said you were gone for a month but probably there's been a bunch of hit pieces written and

01:31:45.960 they're actually starting to dwindle you know and more of the pieces like there was a piece written

01:31:51.120 about me the other day in politico and it was pretty positive it was they didn't muck about with it they

01:31:55.320 mostly wrote what i said in the interview and the atlantic came out with a pretty positive piece and i was

01:32:01.160 on dr oz yesterday by the way um so we taped three podcasts yesterday so we talked for about four hours

01:32:09.120 so i was pretty much done by the end of that um it was a it was more of a marathon than rogan and

01:32:17.100 i'm going back on the 12th to do a live show with him and so that's an entry point into a much more

01:32:24.820 mainstream audience essentially his his demographic is basically women over 50 and so i wouldn't say

01:32:31.460 that's a group that has been assiduously following me but it's nice group to be able to communicate with

01:32:38.640 and so the the hopefully the tide is turning right we'll see we'll see

01:32:47.760 well here's a good segue from uh women over 50 you can change someone's life right now as a 13 year 0.98

01:32:59.860 old what is the best piece of advice to give me to ensure that i maintain a stable healthy life

01:33:07.480 you want to yell for a second so jordan can kind of look at you

01:33:11.080 clap twice if it's you there we go all right there you go well i can basically localize you in the

01:33:18.100 audience then

01:33:18.860 i i don't think that you can ever be given a better piece of advice than to tell the truth

01:33:27.640 and if you could start if you could start practicing that now then you might get really

01:33:40.860 good at it and then you'll be really something because there's nothing more impressive than

01:33:45.880 someone who's articulate who can tell the truth that and there's nothing more potent than that

01:33:51.660 now what that means is you might have to take some knocks in the short term because you know people

01:33:56.940 aren't necessarily that happy when you point out things that everybody knows to be true but that

01:34:03.180 no one wants to talk about now but i would also caution you like it's not an easy thing you can't

01:34:08.640 just blurt out what you think that's not the same thing as telling the truth right because you have

01:34:13.120 to orient yourself right in the world you have to be aiming at something you have to be aiming at

01:34:17.220 something good you want to have you want things to be better than they are and then use truth in

01:34:23.600 the service of that so it's like truth in the service of love i think those are the fundamental

01:34:27.520 elements of christian ethics by the way is there's some relationship between truth and love and love

01:34:32.040 is the desire for things to be better than they are and that's that's not an easy desire you know

01:34:36.980 because people get vengeful and and and vicious and malevolent and cruel and they want harm

01:34:43.280 they want to produce harm to themselves and to others and it's a universal human tendency it's a

01:34:48.200 very difficult thing to constrain so you have to want things to be better and then you have to use

01:34:53.440 truth in the service of that but those are if you can manage that if you can start when you're 13 man

01:35:00.340 that'd be something you know because there's there's a lot of call for adolescents to be false

01:35:05.900 to go along with the crowd and all of that and you have to be you have to be socialized you have to

01:35:10.920 make friends like it's important to figure out how to fit in but you don't want to sacrifice your

01:35:15.340 soul to fit in you want to retain it and so watch what you say watch what you write be careful with

01:35:25.180 your language watch how you communicate and and tell the truth that's the best thing you got going for

01:35:31.540 you you think about it if you tell the truth then you have reality on your side that's a good that's a

01:35:40.900 alternative

01:35:41.520 what does it say about the state of the world that the world seems to need you right now

01:35:57.860 yeah that's terrifying

01:35:59.860 well look

01:36:04.660 i wouldn't say it's me like you have to be very careful this is something i learned from carl jung

01:36:13.040 for exactly it's exactly relevant to this question he wrote a paper called relations between the ego

01:36:20.580 and the unconscious and it's it's a very strange paper like many of the things that carl jung wrote

01:36:26.500 and it's about the danger of ego inflation and so you know i've been rose to notoriety or

01:36:36.320 public i'm a known public figure let's say and what i say has a certain amount of influence and

01:36:45.660 i could attribute that to me

01:36:49.440 but you see that's not that's not the right way of thinking about it

01:36:55.280 because

01:36:56.820 well you don't if you're a musician you don't if you're a musician and you're playing

01:37:02.660 a great piece you don't attribute the music to you precisely you know

01:37:06.660 it's like you're part of something maybe you're you're part of how that is expressed

01:37:12.060 so i'm i'm part of the process by which archetypal ideas are expressed but i am not the ideas

01:37:19.760 and to confuse yourself with the ideas is to court insanity

01:37:24.780 hitler confused himself with the ideas that's a bad idea

01:37:29.940 it's like you know here's another way of thinking about it i wrote about this in 12 rules

01:37:36.220 every superhero has a has a what do you what do you call that it's like peter parker and spider-man

01:37:44.740 what is it it's well no no his his his his his alter ego right well you don't know who the alter

01:37:51.020 ego is you don't know if it's peter parker or spider-man right but there's no spider-man without

01:37:54.980 peter parker there can't be and there's no superman without clark kent like and there's

01:38:00.300 actually a psychological truth there so that's the relationship between the ego and the self

01:38:04.340 okay and the self is the superordinate it's it's it's that which you could be if you were everything

01:38:11.160 you could be and there's something divine about it in in a real sense it's the sum total of human

01:38:17.180 potential insofar as that can be manifested in an individual so it's it's it's it's like the genie

01:38:22.720 that's another way of thinking about it because genie is is associated with the root word for

01:38:26.460 genius and that's it's like the brahman and the atman in hindu philosophy so there's the there's the

01:38:34.080 you that's just you and then there's the you that's that's that's that's part of the divinity of being

01:38:40.520 human and you need both of those and you want to identify with the first one not not the not the

01:38:47.200 divinity of human part you want to identify with you you're you these other things can make

01:38:53.520 themselves manifest through you in some sense but you do not take you have to keep yourself

01:39:00.060 separated jung used the the image of the earth and the sun the earth should not fall into the sun

01:39:06.100 it rotates around the sun that's like the proper relationship between you and and god in some sense

01:39:11.760 it's like there's there's a relationship there but that doesn't make you god and you have to never

01:39:19.460 forget that right it's you have to keep that that's humility you're you're faulty and flawed and you make 0.95

01:39:27.600 mistakes and you keep your damn feet on the ground and if you don't you're going to get you're going 0.96

01:39:31.740 to get flattened and this is another thing that keeps my feet on the ground is like the degree to which 0.99

01:39:37.580 you will be flattened is proportionate to the danger of the game that you're playing

01:39:41.680 right and so i've been very careful i'm careful with what i say i try to be very careful and i try

01:39:47.940 not to put myself in situations where i'm unlikely to be careful so um and the reason for that is that

01:39:57.200 i'm not interested in being flattened and that's a that's a high probability event and so well so i don't

01:40:04.740 think that people need me what everyone needs is to reunite with the the father in the abyss let's

01:40:14.900 say that's what everybody needs and i'm trying to do that for myself and i'm communicating that to

01:40:21.260 everyone else to the best of my ability but it's part of a universal pattern and that pattern isn't me

01:40:27.480 not personally you know it's it's transpersonal and so you you stay away from that it's like you 1.00

01:40:33.440 don't you can cook something on a fire but you don't dance in the fire you know you burn that way

01:40:39.980 and that's that's not good so what do you think about the part of us that wants to be flattened

01:40:45.340 because as you were saying this i was thinking about about two years ago when milo was at the peak

01:40:49.700 of his success he said to me after we finished an interview he said dave this won't last forever i'm

01:40:56.880 going to destroy myself oh yeah and i knew he was telling me the truth yeah it was inevitable

01:41:01.040 you could see that with milo i felt really bad when that happened actually because i watched him

01:41:06.080 and i thought there's just no way this person can exist he's too full of contradictions like no one 0.80

01:41:11.680 can pull that off there's just too many a gay english jew flamboyant trickster darling of the 1.00

01:41:20.840 republicans it's like no one can pull that off yeah yeah and you know and then he 0.93

01:41:26.840 he'd been and and he and there were things about him that weren't ironed out and that's what brought

01:41:31.960 him down because he talked about what happened to him when he was a kid right he got seduced by

01:41:37.300 someone much older and in a position of authority and he didn't want to play himself off his victim

01:41:41.980 and and good for him but jesus he was 14 now when milo looked at that i listened to what he said very

01:41:48.900 very carefully and with the clinician's eye he said well i was i was a willing participant

01:41:55.220 it's like fair enough i can see why you don't want to play the victim card

01:42:02.400 but you were 14 and now you're 30 and you're still you haven't separated yourself from the 14 year old

01:42:13.680 you haven't you don't see that 14 year old from the perspective of an adult it's like something

01:42:19.280 i'll tell you a story a funny story a strange story it's not funny at all it's a strange story

01:42:23.920 so i had this client years ago and she came i only saw her once and she came in to see me and she said

01:42:30.520 i was sexually abused by my brother when i was five and so she told me what happened and i'd kind of

01:42:39.080 built this image of her brother in my imagination while she told the story and i thought 16 17 something

01:42:45.980 like that she didn't tell me how old she was she just said she was a kid i said well how old were

01:42:50.700 you she said well i was i was four i think she said i said well how old was your brother well he was six

01:42:57.280 and i thought oh well i know how to deal with this to some degree it's like

01:43:02.240 you weren't sexually molested by your brother you were two very badly supervised children

01:43:09.660 right because part of her was still four and a six-year-old is an adult for a four-year-old

01:43:16.780 but a six-year-old isn't an adult you know and it was so it was such an interesting interchange

01:43:22.060 because she walked away better now i'm not saying she was that it fixed what had happened to her

01:43:26.260 because it didn't but the memory of being assaulted by someone in authority is much ameliorated when

01:43:36.660 you're 30 and you realize that one of you was four and the other was six it's a whole different story

01:43:42.740 you know but you you can't have that story until you're 30 and it's so weird too because she the past

01:43:49.420 changed on her it's like well how can the past change it's fixed it's like well it's not as fixed as

01:43:54.660 you think it's like what happens now can change the past so strangely milo is like and he talked

01:44:02.720 about this and then people went after him for for justifying child sex with children something like

01:44:09.020 that which i thought was i thought that was really unfair because i thought i could see how confused he

01:44:14.420 was ethically and then he also said well this sort of thing is relatively common practice in the

01:44:19.000 homosexual community you know the relationship between an older guy and a younger guy and so like that

01:44:23.700 was just the combination of those two things you know making making because it sounded like it

01:44:30.600 sounded a like a justification for pedophilia and be like an assault on the gay community well that 0.87

01:44:35.780 just sunk him and people were waiting to take him down but i thought it was terribly unfortunate

01:44:40.580 in some sense because he's a remarkable person you know for all his strange for his all his

01:44:47.440 strangeness he's a remarkable person and what happened to him when he was a kid hurt him and

01:44:52.460 bent him up and he doesn't know how or why and and that certainly was part of what drove him to take

01:44:58.680 himself down when he said that himself i mean he said that after he had those initial experiences that

01:45:04.360 he just was drugs and alcohol for the next six years or whatever i don't remember the exact parameters of

01:45:11.760 the story so yeah all right one more unfortunately only time for one more let me get a good one here

01:45:22.240 all right we'll help one other person out right now how would you deal with the dragon who happens

01:45:31.680 to be my roommate who refuses to clean his room or do the dishes or take out the trash or mow the lawn

01:45:38.160 physical violence is good night everybody

01:45:45.200 you want a better one oh um i don't know that's not a bad question it's the but i don't think it's

01:45:56.100 the right question the right question might be what are the circumstances that require you to put up

01:46:02.500 with that it's like because the first thing i would do if we were sitting down talking is i would say well

01:46:07.840 can you change them no can you move well that's the next thing to do is like let's walk through

01:46:16.600 what it would take you to move because sometimes the best solution is just to get away because some

01:46:22.680 people another rule that i've been working on is um don't rescue someone who doesn't don't try to

01:46:29.760 rescue someone who doesn't want to be rescued and be very careful about rescuing someone who does

01:46:34.020 like maybe you have a roommate who doesn't want to make things better and then there's nothing you

01:46:40.520 can do about that except example and one manifestation of that example might be just leave you know if

01:46:50.380 you've if you're being treated unfairly then you have an ethical obligation to alter the situation

01:46:58.600 so that you're no longer the recipient of injustice you have an ethical duty to yourself to do that now

01:47:05.700 maybe there are things in your life that make it impossible for you to leave at the moment

01:47:09.240 and but then i can't really offer you any generic advice because what we'd have to do is sit down and

01:47:15.860 figure out i'd have to do a much more detailed analysis of your living situation and your interactions

01:47:22.100 with your roommate to find out the entire story and to start thinking about a strategy that might

01:47:28.120 um that might aid you in your in your negotiations like is it maybe you just can't negotiate i'm not

01:47:35.580 saying that's true by the way because i don't know who you are maybe you can negotiate like mad but

01:47:39.980 there's no way i can tell from the question where the locale of the problem is but the first

01:47:46.540 thing i would explore is like what the hell are you doing there you know leave if you can move 0.55

01:47:52.600 somewhere else and and that's just that's the simplest perhaps the simplest solution to the

01:47:57.920 problem perhaps not well on that note i'm on that happy note on that happy note the guy's looking

01:48:06.500 for a new roommate right now anyone looking to uh anybody got an extra room someone who's easy to push

01:48:11.860 around haha he's getting funnier sorry i didn't i didn't mean that but i couldn't resist uh well

01:48:22.020 i'm thrilled that we're kicking this thing up again and we got now we have like another 50 stops and i

01:48:26.260 think we have about 16 in europe and and this thing is truly truly worldwide it's it's awesome and i'm

01:48:32.160 and i'm psyched to be part of it and on that note i'm going to get out of the way and guys make some

01:48:36.480 noise for jordan peterson everybody thank you everyone it was a pleasure to be in rochester

01:48:56.500 so thank you very much for coming

01:48:59.500 good night

01:49:07.140 if you found this conversation meaningful you might think about picking up dad's books maps of meaning

01:49:15.280 the architecture of belief or his newer bestseller 12 rules for life an antidote to chaos both of these

01:49:20.280 works delve much deeper into the topics covered in the jordan b peterson podcast see jordan b peterson

01:49:25.720 dot com for audio ebook and text links or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller i really

01:49:30.980 hope you enjoyed this podcast if you did please leave a rating at apple podcasts a comment or review

01:49:36.780 or share this episode with a friend if you didn't enjoy it keep it to yourself we're still at five

01:49:42.460 stars even though i'm the one doing the intros and the extras next week's episode is another 12 rules

01:49:47.700 for life lecture from westbury new york recorded on september 6th 2018 talk to you next week thanks for

01:49:54.220 listening follow me on my youtube channel jordan b peterson on twitter at jordan b peterson on facebook

01:50:01.700 at dr jordan b peterson and at instagram at jordan.b.peterson details on this show access to my blog

01:50:10.780 information about my tour dates and other events and my list of recommended books can be found on my

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01:50:23.520 their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for

01:50:29.220 the future can be found at self-authoring dot com that's self-authoring dot com from the westwood one

01:50:36.880 podcast network

01:50:38.200 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 15, 2019

Aim at a Star - A 12 Rules for Life Lecture

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