The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - August 2018 Q & A

00:00:00.000 At Wealthsimple, we're built for whatever you're building.

00:00:03.900 Built for Jane, who wants to break into the housing market.

00:00:07.760 We're built for Ted, who's obsessed with what's happening in the global markets.

00:00:12.120 And built for Celine, who just wants to retire and explore the world's flea markets. 0.96

00:00:17.340 So take a moment and think about what you're building for.

00:00:20.860 We've got the financial tools to help make it happen.

00:00:24.180 Wealthsimple, built for possibilities.

00:00:27.080 Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities.

00:00:31.000 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:36.600 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:42.860 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be,

00:00:46.240 and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

00:00:50.220 With decades of experience helping patients,

00:00:52.740 Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.

00:00:57.540 He provides a roadmap towards healing.

00:01:00.000 Showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.

00:01:05.540 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone.

00:01:08.640 There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.

00:01:11.920 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.

00:01:17.600 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.

00:01:21.180 Welcome to the Jordan B. Peterson podcast.

00:01:29.900 You can support these podcasts by donating to Dr. Peterson's Patreon,

00:01:33.860 the link to which can be found in the description.

00:01:36.960 Dr. Peterson's self-development programs, self-authoring, can be found at selfauthoring.com.

00:01:42.140 Thank you.

00:01:56.860 Thank you.

00:01:57.580 Hello, everyone.

00:02:16.980 So the first question that came up, oh, there's something I want to say first.

00:02:23.160 First, thank you for tuning in to this Q&A.

00:02:26.640 It's always much appreciated.

00:02:30.260 It's a pleasure to do these, and they seem to be quite popular.

00:02:33.360 It's been a while since I did one, but I've been on the road a lot and away from my computer,

00:02:38.320 and so that's the reason or the excuse.

00:02:41.780 Take your pick.

00:02:43.380 Hopefully, it's a reason.

00:02:45.720 I wanted to let you know, too, those of you who don't know,

00:02:49.640 I have worked on two programs online that are hypothetically helpful to people.

00:02:55.680 One is selfauthoring.com, and that helps you write about your past and your present and your future.

00:03:02.340 To Catch You Up, that's the past authoring program.

00:03:06.260 To Identify Your Faults and Virtues, that's the present authoring program.

00:03:10.160 And to make a vision and a counter vision for your future and to make an implementable plan.

00:03:16.120 They're writing exercises.

00:03:17.200 I've produced a 20% discount for all you Q&A people today.

00:03:21.200 So if you use the discount code AUGUST at selfauthoring.com,

00:03:25.880 then you can purchase the full set of programs for 20% off.

00:03:30.980 And we have a two-for-one offer, so you can share that with a friend as well.

00:03:35.900 And then understandmyself.com is a personality test site that enables you to get a big five readout of your personality

00:03:43.380 with each of the big five traits, extroversion, neuroticism, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and openness

00:03:49.380 broken down into their two aspects.

00:03:51.440 So you can get a pretty comprehensive view of your personality.

00:03:54.540 And that code is also AUGUST, and that's in the description of the video in case you forget.

00:03:59.540 So if you're inclined, you can use those codes, and you can try out those programs.

00:04:04.720 We know the future authoring program, for example, if university students do it,

00:04:08.660 especially the ones that are struggling, it produces quite a marked increase in their propensity

00:04:13.840 to stay at university and to get better grades.

00:04:16.540 So the programs seem very, very effective.

00:04:19.540 So if you're trying to straighten out your life, then I would recommend the self-authoring program.

00:04:24.220 And if you're trying to understand yourself better, or someone that you know,

00:04:27.300 then you could try understandmyself.com.

00:04:30.720 So that's that.

00:04:33.760 The other announcement, I suppose, is that I've done a tour now of about 65 cities with Tammy.

00:04:40.760 Somebody asked how she manages this.

00:04:42.920 She's exceptionally good at traveling and very low in neuroticism, thank God, for that,

00:04:48.280 because it's been a stressful time with lots of opportunity, obviously.

00:04:52.700 And she likes to travel, and so she's very good at helping me manage this.

00:04:57.300 We're going to head about 40 more cities, 40 or 50 more cities,

00:05:00.820 between now and the end of April next year, which is when I'm going to bring all this touring to a close.

00:05:06.460 In September and early October, we're doing 20 cities on the eastern seaboard of the United States.

00:05:13.400 And then in October, near the end of October, about 15 cities in the UK and northern Europe.

00:05:21.800 And then in February, Australia and New Zealand.

00:05:25.360 And then in March and April, then the rest of Europe.

00:05:30.860 That's the plan anyways.

00:05:32.200 And perhaps there'll be some side trips during those times to other places.

00:05:37.140 And so you can find out about that at jordanbpeterson.com forward slash events.

00:05:42.880 You're more than welcome to come to the talks.

00:05:45.060 They've been very good events in my estimation.

00:05:49.660 I've really enjoyed them.

00:05:51.160 I can tell you I enjoy doing those talks,

00:05:53.360 and I find them a lot less stressful than talking to journalists.

00:05:58.440 The crowds are there.

00:06:00.080 The individuals in the crowds are there to come and listen to a serious discussion about how life might be improved.

00:06:07.760 And they're very, very positive events.

00:06:10.100 So I've been very happy to do them.

00:06:12.040 The Sam Harris videos.

00:06:13.380 I did four talks with Sam Harris.

00:06:14.980 Those are in preparation.

00:06:17.560 We hope we'll have them out in August.

00:06:20.220 Everybody's trying to come to an agreement about how they should be released.

00:06:23.060 It's a rather complicated affair, given how many people are involved.

00:06:26.520 But I think we're close to figuring that out.

00:06:30.060 There'll be 10 hours of tape talks, four sessions, two and a half hours each.

00:06:34.600 I think the talks were very, very productive.

00:06:37.060 We'll see.

00:06:37.740 The audiences seem to react positively to them.

00:06:41.640 And they were very well attended.

00:06:43.060 We had 8,500 people in Dublin.

00:06:45.700 So, and about 6,500 in London.

00:06:48.520 So those were very large crowds.

00:06:50.560 So that's very cool.

00:06:52.620 12 Rules for Life has sold about 2 million copies now.

00:06:55.960 And for those of you who are mathematically geek inclined,

00:06:59.980 that's 57 miles of bookshelf if the books are stacked,

00:07:03.900 you know, as you would put books on a bookshelf.

00:07:07.200 So that's a lot of books.

00:07:09.300 And Maps of Meaning, I released the audio version of that June 12, 2018.

00:07:13.900 And it hit the New York Times bestseller list for audiobooks in July and August.

00:07:19.700 So that was rather comical given that 12 Rules for Life was never put on the New York Times bestseller list.

00:07:26.460 So I thought that was an ironic little touch of fate.

00:07:30.180 And I'm quite pleased to see how the audiobook is doing.

00:07:33.080 If you like 12 Rules for Life and you're looking for something that delves more deeply into the same themes,

00:07:38.520 then you could try Maps of Meaning.

00:07:40.980 And I think the audiobook, which I read, is more accessible than the written book.

00:07:45.680 People seem to be responding to it that way.

00:07:47.960 So I'm pretty happy about all the positive things that are happening.

00:07:55.100 So, okay.

00:07:56.780 How am I?

00:07:57.700 That's the first question.

00:07:58.780 How am I?

00:07:59.580 Well, pretty good.

00:08:02.340 Actually, my health seems to have stabilized substantially.

00:08:05.180 I'm feeling pretty sharp.

00:08:07.480 I have periods of some negative mood, although they're short and sweet, so to speak.

00:08:15.660 But I seem to be sharp cognitively and I can concentrate for long periods of time and get lots done.

00:08:21.600 I've been able to do quite a bit of writing in the last couple of months, partly blog posts.

00:08:25.960 Partly also, I had the privilege of being asked to write the Introduction to the 50th Anniversary version,

00:08:34.940 single-volume, abridged version of Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago.

00:08:39.180 And I finished that about a week and a half ago.

00:08:41.360 That took me about two months to write.

00:08:44.560 About 3,500 words, if I remember correctly.

00:08:47.200 It was a daunting task to write an introduction to a book as tremendously influential and important

00:08:56.340 and also of exceedingly high literary quality.

00:09:01.880 So, it was a daunting task to write that introduction.

00:09:04.700 And I really wanted to get it right.

00:09:06.240 And I hope I did.

00:09:07.580 I spoke by email with Solzhenitsyn's family and they seemed pleased with it.

00:09:12.360 And so did the editor.

00:09:13.420 And I've had a couple of editors, including Greg Hurwitz, my novelist friend from L.A.,

00:09:20.560 who's an absolutely vicious editor and extremely good at it.

00:09:23.300 So, they were happy with the final cut, so to speak.

00:09:27.520 So, was I.

00:09:28.360 So, I seem to be sharp enough to do the work that's necessary to do.

00:09:33.300 I've been working hard on the online university.

00:09:35.760 I've got three people hired.

00:09:37.140 They're all very smart, young guys.

00:09:39.300 And we're about a year ahead of where I thought we'd be at this point.

00:09:44.200 We hope to have a minimally viable product sometime in the late fall.

00:09:48.780 I'm funding that entirely at the moment, courtesy primarily of my Patreon support.

00:09:54.040 So, thank you to all my Patreon supporters for that.

00:09:56.740 Hopefully, your money is being put to good use.

00:09:58.780 We'll probably crowdfund in November to see if we can set up enough capital for the next three or four years.

00:10:04.880 I could raise money privately.

00:10:06.540 There's lots of people who are interested in investing, but I think that I'm going to try crowdfunding because, well,

00:10:13.420 because I'd like this to be a public enterprise from the beginning and have lots of people involved.

00:10:17.940 And we're thinking of all sorts of ways of getting people involved.

00:10:21.200 How am I other than that?

00:10:22.680 Well, nonplussed and still feeling rather surreal about my life, I would say.

00:10:28.660 My family's in good shape.

00:10:31.800 My daughter, who is very ill, is doing extremely well.

00:10:35.440 So, that's miraculous as far as I'm concerned.

00:10:38.580 My son's getting married in September.

00:10:40.320 That's Julian.

00:10:41.640 And I like his fiancée.

00:10:43.500 Thank God for that.

00:10:45.120 And so, we're looking forward to that.

00:10:46.960 I'm on a bit of a vacation during August, which is the first time I've had off for about two years, with the exception of one week last year.

00:10:56.180 And I'm going to a family reunion in Vancouver Island and then to Saskatchewan to see my family.

00:11:01.140 I'm going to do two talks in Saskatchewan while I'm there, one in Saskatoon and one in Regina.

00:11:05.880 And I have a lot of family coming to the one in Saskatoon.

00:11:10.020 And then a little reunion after that.

00:11:11.680 So, that should be cool.

00:11:13.420 So, that's how I am.

00:11:17.640 And I'm thinking hard about the next book.

00:11:19.820 I have a new book contract about to be finalized, I think, in the next week.

00:11:24.800 I'm hoping to release the next book, which will be 12 More Rules.

00:11:30.540 Probably Beyond Mere Order is the tentative subtitle.

00:11:34.620 I'm hoping that I'll have it done by spring, early, early spring, perhaps January of 2020, if not one year later.

00:11:44.220 But I'm going to try hard to hit it so that I'm done by next September.

00:11:49.580 I'm going to write nonstop from May to September.

00:11:51.880 And then I plan to do biblical lectures from September through December.

00:11:55.460 So, the plan is to tour from January through May, essentially.

00:12:01.500 Then to write for four months.

00:12:04.720 Then to lecture, to prepare the biblical lectures and so forth for four months.

00:12:09.300 And so, that should be next year.

00:12:10.800 So, that's an update.

00:12:11.940 Hopefully, that's all useful information.

00:12:18.900 I'm very pleased about all the support.

00:12:21.180 It's quite remarkable.

00:12:22.540 All this interest in these complicated matters and complicated discussions. 0.98

00:12:28.280 And it's so nice to see people concentrating on psychological and philosophical issues and leaving the idiot politics as far behind as possible. 0.96

00:12:37.520 Because it's certainly a, what would you call it, a distraction and a dangerous one at that. 0.97

00:12:44.000 So, it's so funny talking to the mainstream media types because everything they talk about has to be viewed through a political lens.

00:12:53.120 And although I continue to insist, I did BBC Hard Talk, which was aired today.

00:12:58.940 And that was a classic example of an interviewer being entirely scripted and trying to push everything that's happening around me, I suppose, into a political narrative.

00:13:08.340 And it isn't political as far as I'm concerned.

00:13:11.060 Not everything is political, despite the insistence of people who feel that the personal is always political.

00:13:17.600 It's like, no, there's philosophical domain and a theological domain and a psychological domain.

00:13:23.460 Those should be kept the hell separate from politics.

00:13:26.500 All right.

00:13:28.300 What can a two-agreeable young woman do to be more disagreeable and assertive if that isn't how she is temperamentally inclined? 1.00

00:13:36.060 Well, that's a good question.

00:13:37.800 And I would say, first of all, that's a very common question that people who go into psychotherapy ask.

00:13:44.120 I think the most common problem that psychotherapists deal with, apart from anxiety and depression, is probably assertiveness training.

00:13:54.680 So, the first thing I would say is you really need to figure out what you want.

00:13:59.700 And I would recommend doing the self-authoring program, the future authoring program in particular.

00:14:04.420 Because if you want to stand up for yourself, you have to have your goals and your vision well laid out and well defined.

00:14:12.340 And then you have to have a strategy that is matched to those goals so that you know what you want.

00:14:21.300 So that you know when you're not getting it.

00:14:23.720 Otherwise, you're left with a vague sense of dissatisfaction and resentment.

00:14:27.680 And that's a very, very difficult thing to articulate.

00:14:30.100 And if you can't articulate it, then you can't negotiate.

00:14:33.260 If you know what you want and you know why, then you can make a case for yourself.

00:14:37.580 Okay, so let's assume now that you've laid out a vision and a counter vision, which the future authoring program also helps you do.

00:14:44.100 So you know what kind of hell you want to avoid that you might drift into if you were too agreeable for the rest of your life.

00:14:49.800 And that would be a hell that consisted mostly of people taking advantage of you all the time and you feeling resentful and bitter about it.

00:14:56.220 Not something I would recommend.

00:14:58.620 See, I think that women are agreeable because it helps them deal with infants. 1.00

00:15:04.560 But it's not a great temperamental strategy for dealing with complex organizations in the adult world.

00:15:13.540 So I think it's a price that women pay for also being adapted to have plenty of patience for very young children. 0.99

00:15:19.960 And then you have to overcome that to some degree to put yourself forward properly in more complex hierarchies of accomplishment.

00:15:28.700 So I would say once you have your vision established, your vision for the future and your counter vision,

00:15:34.460 so you're afraid of what will happen if you don't stand up for yourself, then you need to consult your resentment.

00:15:39.480 Because if you're resentful about something, as far as I can tell, there's generally only two reasons.

00:15:45.140 One is you should grow the hell up and quit whining.

00:15:48.260 So you've got to find out first if you're just feeling sorry for yourself.

00:15:51.340 And you can think that through, make a pro and con case, and you can talk to somebody that you care about about that.

00:15:56.880 I'm not assuming that that's the reason, but that's one potential reason.

00:16:00.740 If you're not merely feeling sorry for yourself, then you probably have something to say and something that you need.

00:16:06.640 And you need to figure out what that is, and then you have to develop a strategy to put that forward.

00:16:12.000 I've seen lots of people in my personal life and in my private practice not get what they want because, well, A, they don't specify it, and B, they don't ask for it.

00:16:21.980 And if you're negotiating, say, for a raise or for a promotion and so forth, you have to put yourself forward.

00:16:27.980 You need to tell the person you're working for why you should be treated with more consideration or respect or have more resources devoted to you or more authority, what's shifted to you.

00:16:41.140 And you have to make a case for that, a compelling case, so that they have a reason to attend to you.

00:16:46.400 And they're not going to notice because most managerial types are so overloaded with work that they never notice when anything's going right.

00:16:55.560 They just notice the things that are going wrong.

00:16:57.860 So you need to make a plan.

00:17:00.000 You have to have a strategy that goes along with that plan.

00:17:02.680 You have to have articulated arguments for why a certain form of treatment is appropriate to you.

00:17:09.900 And then you have to have the courage to put that forward.

00:17:13.760 And I guess you have to remember that you owe yourself as much as you owe other people.

00:17:19.040 You have to take care of yourself like you take care of other people.

00:17:22.360 And that's a moral duty.

00:17:24.160 And if you practice that, you can do it.

00:17:26.460 And a lot of that's also associated with telling the truth.

00:17:29.840 You don't have a better friend than the truth, even though it can be very harsh in the short term.

00:17:34.700 And so if you're unhappy at work because you're being taken advantage of, then you have to strategize yourself out of that.

00:17:40.160 You have to learn to negotiate.

00:17:41.860 And a lot of that also means that you have to overcome your hesitancy to engage in conflict.

00:17:47.040 And you've got to think about it this way.

00:17:50.700 Negotiation and conflict are somewhat indistinguishable.

00:17:55.540 And it's easy moment to moment to avoid negotiation and conflict, but you pay a terrible price for it in the medium to long term.

00:18:01.820 It's better to face the conflict forthrightly in the present and make peace for the medium to long term.

00:18:09.240 And there's courage in that.

00:18:11.160 So that's the other thing I would say is gird up your loins and allow yourself to act courageously and truthfully.

00:18:21.940 Truth is your best bet if you're too agreeable.

00:18:24.840 So, you know, you also might find that you have a pretty good critical intelligence, but that you think it's mean and so that you keep it hidden.

00:18:30.980 Some of the smartest women I knew who were very, very agreeable had unbelievably good instincts with regards to figuring out what other people's motives were.

00:18:39.600 But they were ashamed of their suspicions.

00:18:42.600 And really what that meant was they ended up being ashamed of their critical intelligence because they were so agreeable.

00:18:47.860 So it may be that the darker part of you, the shadow part of you, knows things that you could know if you were willing to admit that they were true.

00:18:54.900 And so you have to give some credence to your to your darker element, I would say.

00:19:00.680 How do you know if you're communicating with the actual person or a mask?

00:19:20.240 I sometimes wonder if I can ever really know someone.

00:19:22.640 Well, you can't ever thoroughly know someone because people are too complicated.

00:19:28.140 You can't even really know yourself.

00:19:30.340 How do you know if you're communicating with the actual person or a mask?

00:19:33.360 Well, if you're communicating with an actual person, then you're actually having a conversation.

00:19:38.600 You know, and the conversation transforms as a consequence of participating in it.

00:19:43.260 And it tends to be engaging and meaningful.

00:19:45.280 If what's happening is an exchange of ideological platitudes or just platitudes themselves for that matter, then you're probably engaging with a mask.

00:19:55.440 So if the conversation is compelling and meaningful and it transforms as it progresses and you can see that give and take, that dance like give and take, then you're communicating with an actual person.

00:20:07.540 The other thing I would say is that when you're communicating with an actual person rather than a mask, the person that you're communicating with tends to be quite interesting.

00:20:17.740 You know, if people talk about what they know, which means you're really communicating with them.

00:20:22.080 If they talk about their own personal experience instead of wandering off into the domain of cliches and ideological platitudes, then people tend to be extraordinarily interesting.

00:20:32.980 And so that's another good tactic and a good hint that you're that you're where you should be when you're conversing.

00:20:40.700 One of the rules I had when I was seeing clients actively was that if the conversation I was having wasn't interesting and if my attention started to wander, then we weren't discussing issues that were sufficiently vital.

00:20:54.820 Because if we were discussing vital issues, then the conversation basically flew by.

00:21:00.340 And so I think that's a good, that's a good marker.

00:21:09.100 What new wisdom have you acquired in the past few months that you want to share with us?

00:21:13.420 Well, I've got one, I think.

00:21:15.020 I've thought up a bunch of new things, but this one I'm really happy with.

00:21:18.440 I figured out why, you know, some of you know that there's a mythological trope that I discuss fairly frequently about rescuing your father from the belly of the dragon or the belly of the beast.

00:21:33.000 It's a motif that you see, you see it in the lion king.

00:21:37.620 You see it when Simba is being initiated by the baboon. 0.95

00:21:41.360 I don't remember, Nafiki, I think his name is, after Nela humiliates him because he's still a pathetic adolescent. 0.82

00:21:50.280 He follows the baboon, I think it's a mandrill actually, down underground essentially through a long tunnel.

00:21:59.520 There's a lot of kind of scary music in the background.

00:22:01.440 And he ends up contemplating himself in a dark pool.

00:22:05.140 And then his father appears in the sky.

00:22:07.400 And so that's one example of the reconstruction of the mythology of encountering your father in the abyss.

00:22:15.420 You look into the abyss and you see your father.

00:22:17.860 And then in the Pinocchio story, Pinocchio, of course, when he's trying to become a genuine human being, 0.99

00:22:23.480 instead of a marionette pulled by other people's strings or a neurotic or a liar or a jackass, 0.98

00:22:30.600 because those are his alternate destinies, 0.99

00:22:33.140 he goes down to the darkest place he can find, the bottom of the ocean,

00:22:37.220 and finds the biggest monster he can look at.

00:22:39.160 And inside he finds his father and then rescues him.

00:22:43.060 And the question is, why do you find your father when you look into the abyss?

00:22:47.980 And I really do think I figured this out.

00:22:50.600 And it's quite exciting to me.

00:22:51.840 It's such a brilliant image.

00:22:54.460 So we know as clinicians, and also I would say as sensible people,

00:22:58.720 but there's good clinical documentation of this,

00:23:00.800 that if you find out, imagine someone's pursuing a goal,

00:23:04.920 and some of the things they have to accomplish or confront on the way to that goal frighten them.

00:23:12.000 And they start to avoid.

00:23:13.340 And then they get more afraid.

00:23:14.680 And, of course, their ability to pursue their goal or to accomplish their goal deteriorates

00:23:19.840 because they're avoiding.

00:23:20.660 If you're a psychotherapist or even a friend or a supportive loved one, let's say,

00:23:27.220 you're going to encourage the person to face the challenges that are making them afraid,

00:23:31.780 to face them voluntarily.

00:23:33.060 And what happens as a consequence of that is that the person usually is able to overcome those fears and develop the necessary skills and to prevail.

00:23:45.060 And that's partly because, not so much because they get less afraid, but because they get more skilled and more courageous.

00:23:51.980 And so imagine that if you bite off a little more than you can chew, you get stronger as a consequence.

00:23:59.380 And you do that in the gym, for example.

00:24:02.000 When you go lift weights, you lift weights that are a little heavier all the time.

00:24:05.240 And as a consequence, you develop yourself physically.

00:24:07.780 And you turn into who you could be.

00:24:10.000 You turn into more than you are.

00:24:11.560 Okay, so if you face fears a little bit at a time, fears and challenges, and you do that voluntarily,

00:24:18.320 then you become more than who you are.

00:24:21.040 Okay, now let's recast that in archetypal language and make it into a kind of ultimate.

00:24:27.000 So if you want to become everything that you could be, then you look into the abyss itself,

00:24:32.940 which is the darkest place that you can possibly contemplate.

00:24:36.040 And that would be the terror of mortality and insanity and of suffering and of malevolence, all of those.

00:24:42.400 It would be like looking into hell, I suppose, to some degree.

00:24:44.980 And then by voluntarily doing that, then you call upon the strongest part of yourself to respond.

00:24:53.180 And the strongest part of yourself is symbolized as the sleeping father nested inside the beast.

00:24:59.120 And so the fundamental truth when you look into an abyss is that you don't see the abyss if you look long enough.

00:25:05.640 It's like an answer to Nietzsche's conundrum.

00:25:08.080 If you look long enough into an abyss, then the abyss looks into you.

00:25:11.800 It's like, well, if you look long enough into an abyss, past when the abyss looks into you,

00:25:17.140 you see who you could become in the form of the great ancestral figures nested inside the catastrophe of life.

00:25:25.760 And then you can join them, so to speak.

00:25:28.200 You can incorporate that and become stronger.

00:25:30.680 And you do that partly by taking on the challenge voluntarily.

00:25:34.580 And that informs you because you learn when you take on challenges voluntarily.

00:25:38.440 But you also do that as a consequence of psychophysiological transformation.

00:25:43.040 Because when you place yourself in challenging situations,

00:25:45.600 let's say the abyss is the archetype of the ultimately challenging situation,

00:25:50.240 then you turn on new genes in your nervous system and in your body that code for new proteins.

00:25:55.780 And you build new structures inside of you.

00:25:58.540 And none of that's going to happen without the demand that's placed on you by willing to confront the full terror of life.

00:26:06.400 And so then I would say the full terror of life is something like the reality of suffering and death

00:26:11.160 and the ever-looming presence of malevolence in your own heart and in the heart of other people.

00:26:18.140 So it's evil and suffering.

00:26:20.000 And to confront that is really, well, you risk blindness by confronting that.

00:26:24.560 That's also a very old story.

00:26:26.220 You risk damaging your vision.

00:26:28.060 But if you do it forthrightly, then you discover who you could be as a consequence.

00:26:33.380 And who you could be is the solution to malevolence and suffering.

00:26:38.660 And so that just blew me away when I figured that out.

00:26:40.960 It was partly a consequence of having lengthy discussions with Sam Harris

00:26:45.860 and thinking this through more and more and being pushed to think it through.

00:26:48.820 But I think that's an absolutely staggering, what would you call it, articulating that image fully for me.

00:27:00.480 I don't know if I've articulated it fully, but articulating it more fully really had a profound effect on me.

00:27:05.860 I think it's such a brilliant conceptualization that inside the darkest place is the heroic ancestor

00:27:13.980 whose identity you could incorporate.

00:27:18.820 Perfect.

00:27:19.500 It's perfect.

00:27:20.200 And I really believe it's true.

00:27:21.280 And what it does is it says that a human being is actually stronger than the greatest challenge that can be set before him or her.

00:27:29.560 And that's really something.

00:27:30.700 I also believe it's true.

00:27:32.160 It doesn't matter how...

00:27:33.660 The other thing that's so interesting about that is that it transforms pessimism into optimism.

00:27:38.740 It's like, well, the world is a very dark place.

00:27:40.800 It's full of suffering and it's full of malevolence.

00:27:42.640 And it might even be so full of suffering and malevolence that a reasonable person could question the justification of its being,

00:27:51.340 as Ivan Karamazov does in The Brothers Karamazov, which I would highly recommend, by the way.

00:27:56.140 That's an absolutely great book, Dostoevsky.

00:27:58.200 But the truth of the matter seems to be that if you face the pessimism full frontal, so to speak,

00:28:06.420 then you find something in you that's strong enough to take it on.

00:28:12.560 And that really says something about, what would you say, the relationship between human beings and divinity, I would say.

00:28:19.240 Because it takes something transcendent, of transcendent power to be able to rise above the genuine suffering and malevolence of life.

00:28:29.900 And I do think that we have that within us if we don't shy away from the challenge.

00:28:33.960 So, you know, there's, in the story of King Arthur and the Holy Grail,

00:28:41.020 so the Holy Grail is one of two things.

00:28:43.480 It's a cup that either held the wine that Christ drank at the Last Supper

00:28:48.200 or that was used to catch his blood when he was speared on the cross, either one.

00:28:53.640 But it's the reservoir, let's say, of the fluid that eternally nourishes.

00:28:59.740 It's something like that.

00:29:00.740 And when you go to look for the Holy Grail, you don't know where to look because you don't know where the Holy Grail is.

00:29:07.580 And so King Arthur and his knights, who all sit at a round table because they're essentially equals,

00:29:12.600 each go off to find the Holy Grail and each of them enters the forest to begin the quest at the place that looks darkest to him.

00:29:20.640 And that's another example of the same idea, is that what you, and another, it's another example of a dictum from Carl Jung,

00:29:29.200 which he extracted from the alchemical literature, which was insterquilinus infinitur, which means, roughly speaking,

00:29:37.200 in filth it will be found, or more to the point, what you most need will be found where you least want to look.

00:29:43.400 But you have to look purposefully.

00:29:45.740 If it chases you, you're prey.

00:29:48.080 If you confront it, then you're the thing that can transcend it.

00:29:52.460 And that's an unbelievably optimistic message because it suggests that if you're willing to take on the burden of being,

00:29:59.180 with its suffering and malevolence, that you can awaken that which is within you that will allow you to prevail.

00:30:07.800 And God only knows how deep an idea that is.

00:30:11.200 It might be the deepest of ideas because who knows what the limit of a human being is.

00:30:17.700 So, well, that's some of the wisdom, so to speak, that I've acquired in the last few months.

00:30:22.620 And there's quite a bit more, too.

00:30:24.020 But I'm going to write all this down and hopefully publish a bunch of it in my next book.

00:30:28.560 I figured out a bunch about hierarchies, too, and how they function.

00:30:31.880 And I've developed a whole new way of conceptualizing.

00:30:37.400 One of the things I was arguing about with Sam Harris was the relationship between facts and values

00:30:45.400 because Sam, and he has his reasons, would like to propose that we can derive values directly from facts.

00:30:52.160 And he wants to do that because he wants to nail the world of values to something solid

00:30:56.920 so it doesn't float in air and get, let's say, what would you call it, hijacked by the fundamentalists

00:31:05.800 or dissolve into nihilism.

00:31:08.840 And both of those are terrible ends for a hierarchy of values.

00:31:11.540 So he wants to nail it to something more objective and less relativistic and less grounded in revealed truth

00:31:24.280 that removes it from the domain of fundamentalism.

00:31:27.120 And so I can understand his point and why he wants to do that.

00:31:30.440 But the problem is that it isn't easy to derive values from facts because there's an infinite number of facts

00:31:36.100 and, by necessity, a very finite number of values.

00:31:39.720 In fact, most of the time when you're doing something, you're reducing the whole world to one value

00:31:44.200 and that value is encapsulated in whatever goal you happen to be pursuing at the moment

00:31:49.140 or whatever you're paying attention to, which is also a form of goal-directed pursuit.

00:31:53.600 And so I've also figured out that, and I kind of knew this, but I could articulate it better now,

00:31:58.260 that you look at the world of facts through a hierarchy of values

00:32:02.080 and that hierarchy of values is instantiated in your nervous system

00:32:05.120 and simultaneously a social construct.

00:32:08.260 Because you pay attention to things of value that you and everyone else have established as valuable

00:32:15.420 through a process of social negotiation.

00:32:18.040 And you need to pay attention to what you think that's valuable, that everyone else thinks is valuable,

00:32:22.540 because otherwise you wouldn't have any basis for shared attention

00:32:25.840 and you wouldn't have any basis for trade with other people.

00:32:29.140 So that's another thing.

00:32:30.280 So that's really been helpful because, so now I've figured out that you reduce the infinite world of facts to the finite world of values

00:32:38.820 by viewing the world of facts through what's essentially a dominance hierarchy of value.

00:32:45.040 And that's, and that exists both out in the social world and neurologically at the same time.

00:32:51.320 And so that's been unbelievably useful to figure out too.

00:32:55.040 And part of a mystery that I've been trying to untangle for about three decades.

00:32:59.780 So that's extremely helpful.

00:33:03.780 And I've also spent some more time thinking about the proper place of the right and the left wing.

00:33:10.520 So the right wing basically stands for the, what would you call, the,

00:33:15.100 the right wing serves as an advocate for hierarchy.

00:33:21.880 And the left wing serves as a critic of hierarchy.

00:33:26.160 And the right says, well, we need hierarchies.

00:33:29.000 There are often hierarchies of competence.

00:33:30.760 They're necessary to organize people and society.

00:33:33.020 And they're necessary to get things done, all of which is true.

00:33:35.700 And the left says, yes, but hierarchies dispossess and you have to pay attention to the widows and the orphans, 0.95

00:33:42.220 which is also true.

00:33:44.120 And so then the political discussion is about how to ensure that hierarchies are maintained and are functional,

00:33:51.320 but also have sufficient mercy within them to take care of the people who,

00:33:56.340 for one reason or another, are struggling to find their place, even in a hierarchy of competence.

00:34:02.260 And then the necessity for free speech emerges out of that because the left and the right have to communicate

00:34:08.800 so that the proper balance between the, the, the current structure of the hierarchy

00:34:16.260 and its transformation and mercy can be established on an ongoing basis.

00:34:21.940 So anyways, there are three things that I've really learned over the last few months.

00:34:25.340 There's a bunch more, but those will do for now.

00:34:27.120 Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight.

00:34:39.460 Most of the time you'll probably be fine, but what if one day that weird yellow mask drops down from overhead

00:34:45.140 and you have no idea what to do?

00:34:47.440 In our hyper-connected world, your digital privacy isn't just a luxury.

00:34:51.200 It's a fundamental right.

00:34:52.400 Every time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe, hotel, or airport,

00:34:56.840 you're essentially broadcasting your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept it.

00:35:01.880 And let's be clear, it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this.

00:35:05.080 With some off-the-shelf hardware, even a tech-savvy teenager could potentially access your passwords,

00:35:10.200 bank logins, and credit card details.

00:35:12.460 Now, you might think, what's the big deal?

00:35:14.580 Who'd want my data anyway?

00:35:16.120 Well, on the dark web, your personal information could fetch up to $1,000.

00:35:19.980 That's right, there's a whole underground economy built on stolen identities.

00:35:24.800 Enter ExpressVPN.

00:35:26.560 It's like a digital fortress, creating an encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet.

00:35:31.240 Their encryption is so robust that it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion years to crack it.

00:35:36.880 But don't let its power fool you.

00:35:38.600 ExpressVPN is incredibly user-friendly.

00:35:41.040 With just one click, you're protected across all your devices.

00:35:44.080 Phones, laptops, tablets, you name it.

00:35:46.160 That's why I use ExpressVPN whenever I'm traveling or working from a coffee shop.

00:35:50.260 It gives me peace of mind knowing that my research, communications, and personal data are shielded from prying eyes.

00:35:56.380 Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash jordan.

00:36:01.120 That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash jordan, and you can get an extra three months free.

00:36:07.500 ExpressVPN dot com slash jordan.

00:36:09.400 Starting a business can be tough, but thanks to Shopify, running your online storefront is easier than ever.

00:36:19.200 Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.

00:36:23.480 From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage, Shopify is here to help you grow.

00:36:30.240 Our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise, and we love how easy it is to add more items, ship products, and track conversions.

00:36:37.840 With Shopify, customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful tools, alongside an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing, accounting, and chatbots.

00:36:50.080 Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout, up to 36% better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms.

00:36:58.440 No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level.

00:37:04.200 Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp, all lowercase.

00:37:10.800 Go to shopify.com slash jbp now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in.

00:37:16.120 That's shopify.com slash jbp.

00:37:18.480 If too much masculinity is tyranny, but the right amount is order, and too much femininity is chaos, 0.96

00:37:42.980 what's the word for the right amount of femininity? 1.00

00:37:46.360 Hmm, that's a really good question.

00:37:48.320 I read that a bit earlier, and I couldn't come up with something immediate.

00:37:52.540 But the only thing I can think of is that often femininity has been characterized as wisdom. 0.62

00:38:01.660 And maybe that's...

00:38:03.360 So the wisdom that God, in the Judeo-Christian tradition that God consults, is feminine. 0.61

00:38:11.820 And that's an old tradition.

00:38:13.780 And maybe that's because order needs to be leavened with the right amount of chaos in order for wisdom to emerge.

00:38:22.680 The order can be blind and tyrannical and dead.

00:38:27.220 And so it's the mixture of the right amount of chaos that turns that order into wisdom.

00:38:33.860 And then that wisdom is often personified as feminine.

00:38:36.380 Now, that doesn't exactly answer your question, because it doesn't make the right balance.

00:38:41.020 You still don't have tyranny, order.

00:38:44.740 You still don't have order, tyranny, chaos.

00:38:49.100 You're still missing the proper word there.

00:38:52.980 I don't...

00:38:54.380 It's a good question.

00:38:55.360 And the wisdom idea is the best I can make of it for now.

00:39:00.260 Is it better to marry someone with your temperament or a contrasting, complementary temperament?

00:39:06.600 Well, there is evidence on this.

00:39:08.560 And basically, you don't want to marry someone with whom you're too mismatched.

00:39:13.220 Now, the only possible exception to that is neuroticism.

00:39:17.800 You know, neuroticism is a good predictor of marital trouble.

00:39:21.320 And it's a good predictor of trouble, period, or perhaps sensitivity to trouble, which is, in some sense, the same thing.

00:39:28.180 It's very...

00:39:29.300 And I don't know of any research specifically pertaining to this.

00:39:34.620 Now, I know that people who are high in neuroticism are more likely to miss work and to visit the doctor

00:39:40.320 and to be unhappy in their marriages and so forth.

00:39:44.740 And that may also account for why 75% of divorces are initiated by women. 0.98

00:39:51.400 And I think women are more sensitive to negative emotion, partly because they have to take care of infants and need to be more sensitive to threat.

00:39:57.560 And perhaps because sexuality is more dangerous to women and perhaps because women are physically smaller. 1.00

00:40:05.560 All of this seems to kick in at puberty.

00:40:07.440 Anyways, it isn't obvious to me that you want to match someone with regards to neuroticism if you're high in neuroticism.

00:40:14.600 I think if you're high in neuroticism, you need to find someone who's low in neuroticism because then you have someone around to calm you down.

00:40:22.720 Now, apart from that, the research literature does indicate that match is better.

00:40:28.320 And you can see why it's hard for extroverts and introverts to get along, especially if they're extreme extroverts and extreme introverts.

00:40:36.460 Because an extreme extrovert always wants to be with other people and in groups.

00:40:41.540 And an extreme extrovert hardly ever wants that.

00:40:44.640 And that's a very, very difficult thing to negotiate.

00:40:47.920 And then with conscientiousness, same thing.

00:40:50.820 If you're really high in orderliness, it's very hard to be married to someone who's very low in orderliness.

00:40:55.240 You're going to end up doing all the cleaning, for example.

00:40:57.660 That will drive you crazy.

00:40:58.840 And if you're high in industriousness, same thing.

00:41:01.940 Now, if you're super high in industriousness and orderliness, you might want someone who's maybe moderate in both to kind of temper you a bit.

00:41:09.220 Because one of the problems with being too high in conscientiousness is that you can't stop working.

00:41:13.940 And you should probably stop working from time to time.

00:41:16.980 Agreeableness, same thing.

00:41:18.800 Hard for an agreeable and disagreeable person to get along.

00:41:21.440 You know, the disagreeable person who won't shy away from conflict is likely to dominate the agreeable person quite badly.

00:41:34.840 So, that's a tough chasm to bridge as well.

00:41:40.420 So, you look for temperamental similarity.

00:41:43.560 Now, it's complicated because, like, if you're really, really low in industriousness and you marry someone else who's really low in industriousness,

00:41:52.220 well, that's going to be trouble for both of you because there isn't going to be anyone around who's going to do the work.

00:41:57.500 So, you might understand each other better, but as a long-term strategy, it's not a very good one.

00:42:03.360 So, it seems like your message is primarily positive masculine, whereas the positive feminine is not elaborated with near the same resolution.

00:42:14.860 What do you think?

00:42:16.200 Um, I don't really think that's true.

00:42:19.220 I think that might be somewhat true of 12 Rules for Life, although I'm not convinced of that.

00:42:23.780 The message in 12 Rules for Life is to find a balance between order and chaos, and there's plenty of discussion in there about the danger of an excess of both.

00:42:34.300 Certainly, Maps of Meaning is elaborated out more with regards to the positive masculine, or with regards to...

00:42:44.600 Maps of Meaning is elaborated out more completely than 12 Rules with regards to the positive role of the masculine and the feminine.

00:42:53.780 I think it's complicated in part because the feminine, classically speaking, is associated with smaller-scale, intimate, familial groupings.

00:43:07.940 And so, in a world that's obsessed with adaptation to large-scale social systems,

00:43:19.700 it's harder to make a case for the role of the feminine. 1.00

00:43:24.600 We don't really understand the role of the feminine in large-scale social structures. 0.91

00:43:29.180 So, and you know, we don't have a cultural myth, apart from Beauty and the Beast, let's say,

00:43:35.820 that describes the role of an independent female operating in the fundamentally masculine social world. 1.00

00:43:46.000 And we don't even know what something like that would look like.

00:43:48.940 And there aren't guiding stories to some degree, because women haven't been able to do that except in the last hundred years. 1.00

00:43:57.800 So, I don't know what the positive feminine, on a large scale, would look like.

00:44:06.220 And we don't have guiding stories for that.

00:44:08.900 This is partly to underline the absolutely radical nature of the birth control pill.

00:44:16.200 And not only that, but the provision of technological devices that aid women in dealing practically with their monthly menstrual cycle,

00:44:28.780 which was also a huge impediment to women in terms of interacting in the, let's say, the patriarchal world. 1.00

00:44:36.140 So, now women can take their place in the broader cultural world. 1.00

00:44:39.840 And we don't know what the model for that is.

00:44:42.040 So, you know, you might say, well, they should adopt the heroic masculine perspective.

00:44:48.320 And certainly, to some degree, that's true.

00:44:50.060 But that's not a particularly fruitful archetype when it comes to having a family.

00:45:00.360 And having a family is actually extraordinarily important.

00:45:03.300 And it's certainly the thing that dominates the thoughts of the majority of women as they approach their 30s. 0.93

00:45:08.900 It's all cultural noise to the contrary.

00:45:12.860 So, it's something we're still puzzling out.

00:45:15.600 And I suppose I'm still puzzling it out, too.

00:45:17.580 I mean, with my daughter, I tried to encourage her to be as sharp and as intelligent and critically minded and ambitious as she could be.

00:45:27.940 But also, to let her know that, and she was always interested in having kids,

00:45:35.860 but to also let her know that having a family is an extremely important thing.

00:45:41.180 How to balance that?

00:45:42.820 Well, that is the modern conundrum, isn't it?

00:45:44.780 We want to figure out how to maximize our access to the talents of women, 1.00

00:45:49.840 but also to set up a situation where it's possible for talented women, 1.00

00:45:55.260 and women of all talents, let's say, as well,

00:45:58.120 but talented women who have options in the workplace to also have a family. 1.00

00:46:02.440 And this is a tremendously complex problem.

00:46:04.600 And it isn't clear how it's going to be solved.

00:46:09.080 You know, there is data showing, you know, you say,

00:46:11.140 well, men should pick up more of the feminine role. 1.00

00:46:13.240 And I suppose that's possible.

00:46:15.080 But there is good data showing, for example,

00:46:17.760 that if you show women pictures of men engaged in classically masculine endeavors,

00:46:23.720 you know, fixing a roof or fixing the plumbing or so forth,

00:46:26.740 or in feminine endeavors, doing the dishes and vacuuming, 1.00

00:46:32.060 that the women rate the men who are doing the female tasks as less sexually attractive.

00:46:37.500 And so it's not all on the men with regards to the utility of them picking up

00:46:42.480 a more feminine role. 1.00

00:46:44.300 You know, and it isn't necessarily the case that women will find men 1.00

00:46:48.820 who are more domestic also maximally sexually attractive.

00:46:53.540 Those things don't necessarily go together.

00:46:55.400 So this is very, very complicated.

00:46:58.220 So...

00:46:58.820 I'm quite shy.

00:47:04.820 And when asked questions in public,

00:47:06.820 I find it hard to articulate a good answer,

00:47:09.220 but will come up with a strong response hours or days later.

00:47:13.120 Any advice?

00:47:13.980 Yeah, I have some advice.

00:47:15.760 One is that, well, you're probably introverted, eh?

00:47:18.840 So you're not as verbally fluent as an extrovert would be

00:47:21.560 and not quite as fast on the draw verbally.

00:47:23.680 But, you know, that means you need some more time to contemplate.

00:47:27.040 And maybe you're high in negative emotion, too,

00:47:29.700 because shyness can be a combination of introversion and high negative emotion.

00:47:33.540 It can be one or the other, but technically shy is introverted.

00:47:39.740 Anyways, what I would certainly recommend for you is that

00:47:43.680 if you're faced with a complicated question,

00:47:47.500 especially one that has to do with an important decision in your life,

00:47:50.720 that you say,

00:47:52.080 I need to sleep on it,

00:47:54.180 or I need a couple of days,

00:47:55.960 and not to answer on the draw.

00:48:00.200 I mean, I think that's true, even for extroverts.

00:48:03.360 I think if you're called upon to offer your opinion about something complex,

00:48:08.360 then it's perfectly reasonable to say,

00:48:10.220 look, that's a really hard question.

00:48:12.280 I'm not going to give you a casual answer.

00:48:14.180 I need to think about it for a couple of days.

00:48:16.240 So the advice would be,

00:48:18.480 because you find it hard to articulate a good answer,

00:48:20.860 don't allow yourself to be rushed.

00:48:23.260 And the second is to understand that this is part of your temperament.

00:48:26.020 There isn't anything wrong with it.

00:48:27.380 It's just, it's how you're wired.

00:48:31.600 So, what causes a person to hoard?

00:48:35.200 Is it due to low conscientiousness?

00:48:37.400 What is generally the best course of treatment?

00:48:40.740 It's usually a consequence of relatively high neuroticism,

00:48:45.500 and it's tangled in with disgust sensitivity as well.

00:48:51.880 People who hoard have a hard time.

00:48:55.720 They feel guilty if they throw things away,

00:48:57.940 because the things still have some residual utility.

00:49:01.960 The best course of treatment is,

00:49:04.280 well, behavioral therapy is probably the best course of treatment.

00:49:07.180 And to plan what needs to be thrown away.

00:49:16.980 And to work with a person that can help you make the hard decisions

00:49:20.140 that need to be made if you're hoarding.

00:49:23.960 All that, all that hoarded material is,

00:49:30.740 it's decisions that have been put off.

00:49:35.340 So, a lot of that is high neuroticism.

00:49:38.900 Some of that can be a consequence of low conscientiousness as well.

00:49:42.540 So, the best course of treatment is to find someone to help you plan

00:49:46.380 how to approach the hoard.

00:49:50.240 Very complicated.

00:49:52.020 So, all right.

00:50:04.580 Which Hogwarts house would you be in?

00:50:11.980 Well, I think I'd have the same issue as Harry Potter

00:50:14.880 when the hat was first put on.

00:50:16.640 It would think that I might make a perfectly good

00:50:19.020 denizen of Slytherin.

00:50:21.360 So, although that probably wouldn't be where I would end up.

00:50:25.720 So.

00:50:34.540 What is your take on an astrological basis

00:50:37.080 for significant dates and religious stories?

00:50:39.680 Example.

00:50:40.420 Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun. 1.00

00:50:43.340 Well, it's certainly not a parody.

00:50:44.880 Religious systems, as they expand,

00:50:50.280 tend to incorporate everything that's quasi-religious in the culture.

00:50:54.900 And there's certainly no shortage of solar symbolism in Christianity.

00:50:59.280 I mean, it's not fluke that Christ is the sun

00:51:02.960 and there are 12 disciples,

00:51:05.280 just like there are 12 astrological houses.

00:51:07.180 And it's not fluke that the birth of Christ takes place essentially at the same time as the shortest day of the year

00:51:17.120 and the rebirth of the sun.

00:51:18.320 All of these things line up.

00:51:20.580 Now, whether that's synchronicity or whether it's the attempt by the collective imagination of human beings to align everything under a single truth,

00:51:31.620 that's a very difficult thing to say.

00:51:33.520 Or maybe there's a single truth at work.

00:51:36.240 But the idea that Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun is definitely not the case.

00:51:41.800 It's more like it's incorporated elements of the worship of the sun over thousands and thousands of years.

00:51:47.760 And that's a very complicated issue.

00:51:50.780 If you're interested in that, you could read Ion, A-I-O-N.

00:51:54.600 It's a book by Carl Jung, which is like the most terrifying book I've ever read.

00:51:58.500 And so you could...

00:51:59.900 There's a deeper analysis of the relationship between astrological speculation

00:52:04.100 and the emergence of complex religious stories.

00:52:08.760 So...

00:52:09.760 My brother, 29, is sick at home with burnout.

00:52:23.080 He's a perfectionist, has anxiety, has trouble dealing with stress.

00:52:26.540 How can I help him become stronger?

00:52:28.440 Well, you could encourage him to go talk to a therapist.

00:52:30.820 You could tell him to go find...

00:52:32.140 He's probably making an appointment with three of them.

00:52:34.920 Go talk to each one for an hour.

00:52:36.880 And if he likes one of them and he finds one who listens,

00:52:39.220 then he can go back a couple more times.

00:52:41.040 But it isn't going to hurt him to go once, at least, to go talk.

00:52:45.040 It's also possible that he needs someone to talk to him about medication.

00:52:49.180 You know, antidepressants...

00:52:50.540 If he's in real trouble, antidepressants are often very helpful to people.

00:52:54.300 Not always, but often.

00:52:55.420 And so that is a lot better.

00:52:57.340 Taking an antidepressant beats the hell out of being sick at home with burnout.

00:53:02.820 And it's attended dangers, cognitive dangers, dangers of stress-induced illness,

00:53:07.480 dangers of suicidal ideation, all that sort of thing.

00:53:10.300 I would also recommend that he try the self-authoring program.

00:53:16.480 If he's at home, he could write about his past.

00:53:19.100 He could write about his present.

00:53:20.440 He could write about his future.

00:53:21.460 He can do a bad job.

00:53:22.600 He can do it over days.

00:53:24.000 I think that...

00:53:24.880 I mean, we have evidence that the program is extremely helpful to people.

00:53:27.980 And there's evidence from other researchers that such programs really help.

00:53:31.380 So that would be something that he could do while he's sitting at home.

00:53:35.800 And it's not going to hurt him.

00:53:38.640 Going over some of the more complex material might make him feel slightly worse in the short term.

00:53:43.280 But the long-term payoff is very, very high.

00:53:45.860 So that's what I would recommend.

00:53:51.180 Encourage him to go talk to somebody.

00:53:53.320 And he needs to make a plan.

00:53:54.620 He needs to come to terms with what's happened to him.

00:53:56.960 And he needs to make a plan.

00:53:58.100 And he might need to talk to somebody for a long time to figure out what the hell's going on.

00:54:02.760 You know, and we also don't want to rule out, neither does he, the possibility that there's something physical wrong.

00:54:08.040 You know, because there's increasing evidence that depressive disorders, and that would include anxiety,

00:54:13.960 are a consequence of such conditions as generalized inflammation.

00:54:18.180 And that's really worth looking into.

00:54:20.180 So I think a lot of the things that we think are psychological have a more pronounced physical basis.

00:54:25.760 So, yeah.

00:54:31.220 How do you dress so well?

00:54:32.960 Any tips?

00:54:33.920 Well, you know, thank you.

00:54:36.460 I started buying nice clothes, let's say, this year, really.

00:54:44.220 I had some decent suits before that.

00:54:46.780 I did some research online to find out who good suit manufacturers were.

00:54:50.480 You can look that up.

00:54:51.320 But before this tour, I went and talked to a good tailor, an expensive place.

00:54:57.520 I felt terrible spending so much money on clothing.

00:55:00.060 But I felt that if I was going to go talk to, it's been 200,000 people, that I was going to do it right.

00:55:07.400 And I was going to invest in some decent clothes.

00:55:10.500 And even though it hurt my cheap northern Alberta soul to do it, it was definitely worth it.

00:55:18.840 So go talk to someone who knows what they're doing.

00:55:21.460 Go talk to an actual tailor.

00:55:23.220 And you can do some research online.

00:55:25.600 There's lots of resources online that are devoted to helping men figure out how to dress.

00:55:35.140 Three-piece suits look really good.

00:55:39.660 I've got them tailored and fitted.

00:55:41.580 So they're not bespoke suits.

00:55:43.720 They're off the rack, but they've been tailored.

00:55:46.380 And that makes a big difference.

00:55:47.920 All the subtle things that tailors do.

00:55:49.700 They tuck it in around the waist.

00:55:51.660 They cut it to your body.

00:55:52.940 All of those things help.

00:55:53.960 It's really good to have a good pair of shoes.

00:55:55.920 A couple of nice ties.

00:55:57.380 I learned how to tie a full Windsor knot recently.

00:55:59.940 And that actually helps.

00:56:01.260 You don't want your tie to look too skinny.

00:56:03.660 Lots of people have been dressing up to come to my talk.

00:56:05.980 So it's nice to see a lot of young men come well-dressed.

00:56:09.380 Often in three-piece suits.

00:56:10.580 But not always.

00:56:11.380 And it's really good to see them dressed like grown-ups.

00:56:13.660 I think that's a real plus.

00:56:15.880 I had a rule that I didn't write in 12 Rules, which was dress like the person you want to be. 0.53

00:56:21.300 I kind of took that from Nietzsche.

00:56:25.380 Because Nietzsche said, every great man is an actor of his own ideal.

00:56:30.420 It's a very nice aphorism.

00:56:31.960 And basically what it meant was that sometimes you have to act out what you want to be before you become it.

00:56:38.440 You have to pretend.

00:56:39.700 It's not a lie.

00:56:40.680 It's really a pretense.

00:56:42.900 Like children pretend to be a father before they grow up and become a father.

00:56:46.660 It's a form of practice.

00:56:48.580 And so tip one might be figure out who you want to be.

00:56:53.780 Tip two might be, well then dress like that person.

00:56:56.600 That's a good start.

00:56:57.880 And because I think if you want to become who you want to be, then no detail is too small to overlook.

00:57:03.540 And certainly it isn't exactly that people judge you by your clothes, although they do to some degree.

00:57:10.860 It's that if whatever you can have going for you, you might as well have going for you.

00:57:16.980 That's how it looks to me.

00:57:17.980 And certainly my experience has been that the response to my improved wardrobe has indicated that the investment was clearly worth it, indisputably and clearly worth it.

00:57:29.960 And it's nice to be dressed sharply to go in front of an audience.

00:57:34.060 It's a sign of respect to the audience.

00:57:36.240 There's other ways of showing respect to an audience, but that's certainly one.

00:57:39.680 And so it's been extraordinarily worthwhile.

00:57:41.720 I would say if you're going for a job interview, if you're at any critical point in your life, then you should dress the part because you want to do everything you can to tip the scales, not in your favor exactly, but in favor of having the right thing happen.

00:57:57.180 So you have written an article on how to write.

00:58:01.220 Can you do the same on how to speak?

00:58:04.900 Well, I suppose I could.

00:58:06.140 I could tell you a little bit about it.

00:58:11.720 If you're going to speak about something, you need to know a lot about it.

00:58:16.040 You need to know three or four times as much as you're going to speak about at minimum.

00:58:20.360 So first of all, you have to do your background research.

00:58:23.160 You have to have multiple stories at hand that you can use to illustrate your point.

00:58:29.420 And you have to have a point.

00:58:31.060 You have to organize what you're talking about around a problem.

00:58:34.260 So before I go on stage to speak on my tour, I always sit for half an hour, some of which involves usually about five minutes of anxiety.

00:58:44.860 And I think, OK, there's a problem I'm trying to address tonight, a central problem or a theme.

00:58:50.940 What is it?

00:58:51.420 It might be courage.

00:58:52.300 It might be responsibility.

00:58:53.600 It might be meaning.

00:58:54.620 I think that serves as an organizing principle.

00:58:59.000 So that would be the point.

00:59:00.880 And then basically I organize, say, a dozen stories around that.

00:59:05.360 And I can kind of arrange them in it as a journey.

00:59:08.960 And it's a journey that circles the main point.

00:59:12.420 And so I'm trying to explore it to say what I think about courage, let's say, but to take what I'm thinking farther than I've taken it already.

00:59:20.880 And so then I can plot out, you know, little five-minute stories that I have that are associated with courage.

00:59:28.740 And then I can talk to the audience.

00:59:31.820 And I would say, talk about what you know.

00:59:36.800 Use your personal experience because that's something that you're actually a master of.

00:59:41.600 You can bring in other material, but it has to be tied to the real world through your own experience.

00:59:47.480 Otherwise, it's not real.

00:59:48.540 It's also very good to speak directly to the audience, to the individuals in the audience.

00:59:53.980 Because I'm always looking at a single person, one after another, and focusing on them and talking to them, just like you'd have a conversation with someone.

01:00:02.480 And that way I can see if they're following along.

01:00:04.800 And I'm always listening to the audience.

01:00:07.780 What I really like to hear from the audience is no noise at all, silence.

01:00:11.460 Because if the audience, especially, you know, if it's a couple hundred or a couple of thousand people, if the audience is dead silent, then I know that I'm on the right track.

01:00:21.600 And so, the other thing I would say is you're telling stories.

01:00:30.560 So, every fact that you relate or every set of facts has to be tied to a story.

01:00:36.400 There has to be a meaningful output, which is something like, why is it important to your life that you know this fact?

01:00:44.620 How is it related to how you're going to conduct yourself moving forward or how you're going to see the world?

01:00:49.220 So, that's kind of the essence of meaning.

01:00:51.560 How does this fact change the way you perceive the world or act in the world?

01:00:55.460 That's the meaning of the fact.

01:00:57.160 And facts without meaning are dull.

01:00:59.180 So, you need to know that.

01:01:00.720 You need to tell the truth.

01:01:03.160 That's for sure.

01:01:04.980 And, I mean, for me, my talks are really, they're an attempt to explore a set of ideas in the most truthful way that I can manage.

01:01:14.820 And that's also an adventure because letting yourself speak freely about a topic, you don't always know where it's going to go.

01:01:22.460 And so, but that also hooks in the audience because they're not, they're along for the ride, right?

01:01:27.740 And there's a risk.

01:01:28.600 The risk is you might forget where you are.

01:01:30.480 You might lose the thread.

01:01:31.520 You might say something you regret.

01:01:33.100 You might get confused.

01:01:35.440 And it's this, the talk should be a process of exploration, like a journey that you're taking the audience along on.

01:01:41.420 It's the same when you're reading a novel, like a great novel isn't exactly plotted out from beginning to end to begin with.

01:01:48.860 The author is taking himself or herself and you on an intellectual adventure through the character development.

01:01:58.020 And the characters have to be allowed to live and to express themselves.

01:02:01.680 And the novel needs to unfold.

01:02:03.600 It's like a colloquy between the conscious mind and the unconscious source of inspiration.

01:02:08.740 And the novel is actually a journey through a characterological landscape.

01:02:14.820 And the author shouldn't know where he or she's going to end up at the beginning.

01:02:19.120 Same with an artist who's writing a song or a piece of music or a piece of visual art.

01:02:26.300 There has to be play and exploration along the way.

01:02:29.440 And so, you also don't want to deliver an over-prepared talk, in my estimation, or at least that's not how I do it.

01:02:35.940 You want to have a theme, you want to have a body of knowledge from which you can draw on, and then you want to be actively exploring the idea in front of the audience.

01:02:45.040 And that's very gripping for everyone, including you.

01:02:47.960 And you should learn something from the talk.

01:02:50.260 It's an opportunity to think on your feet.

01:02:53.260 And anyways, that's my style of lecturing.

01:02:55.660 It's a trapeze act without a safety net, I would say.

01:03:01.120 And that's part of what makes it gripping, is that there's a high probability of failure.

01:03:06.180 And I would say with any performance that's going to be gripping, that on the edge of the seat gripping, there has to be a high probability of failure.

01:03:19.060 And that's why I don't speak with notes.

01:03:21.780 If you speak with notes, which you might have to if you're a beginning speaker, then you cannot fail, because you can always read the notes.

01:03:30.060 And so, there's a net.

01:03:31.540 You'll fall in the net, but you won't die.

01:03:33.420 But you'll never do anything spectacular.

01:03:36.360 So, that's the thing, is if you're going to do something spectacular, you have to take the risk.

01:03:40.720 And if you're going to take the risk, you have to think on your feet.

01:03:43.060 And then you also have to have something to think about.

01:03:45.280 You have to have been working on this material.

01:03:47.280 You know, I've been working on the stuff I talk about for 30 years, for tens of thousands of hours.

01:03:53.300 And so, I have that reservoir of knowledge, I suppose.

01:03:57.480 And, you know, whenever I read something new, I'm slotting it into the knowledge structure that I use to generate my talks.

01:04:03.140 And I'm reading all the time.

01:04:05.460 And lots of the things I read, I forget.

01:04:07.940 They're not relevant to my central mission, whatever that happens to be.

01:04:11.680 It looks something like the delineation of the relationship between responsibility and meaning.

01:04:18.580 And maybe responsibility, meaning, and perception.

01:04:22.240 It's something like that.

01:04:23.060 And so, I have a central concern, or deeper than that, in some sense.

01:04:28.200 My central concern was how to ensure, personally, that if I was tempted in a situation like the situations that arose in the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany,

01:04:39.900 that I wouldn't fall prey to those totalitarian systems and act in the reprehensible manner that so many people acted in.

01:04:48.440 And that's really been a driving concern of mine.

01:04:51.440 And that bleeds over into the relationship between meaning and responsibility and perception.

01:04:56.200 So, there's a core set of problems that I'm working on.

01:04:58.840 And every talk is an attempt to further develop those.

01:05:01.920 So, you also have to have a problem, you know.

01:05:06.460 You think, well, you don't want to have a problem.

01:05:08.280 It's like, yeah, you do.

01:05:09.220 You want to, you want to, you've got problems anyways.

01:05:12.860 If you're alive, you've got problems.

01:05:14.800 Pick one of them.

01:05:15.580 It can be your problem.

01:05:16.800 And that can be the problem you try to address, whatever that happens to be.

01:05:20.760 And then you have something to talk about.

01:05:22.200 How am I going to address this problem?

01:05:23.760 How can this problem be addressed?

01:05:26.100 So, you need to have a problem, too, if you're going to talk.

01:05:28.200 Just like you need to have a problem if you're going to write.

01:05:30.140 Because the writing is an attempt to solve the problem.

01:05:32.200 And so is the talking.

01:05:34.080 If you're not trying to solve a problem, what the hell are you doing talking?

01:05:37.840 Why should anyone care?

01:05:39.380 It's got to be a real problem, too.

01:05:40.980 Like a, you know, a nail-biter of a problem.

01:05:43.800 A dragon of a problem.

01:05:45.000 And if it's a problem that everyone else shares, so much, the better.

01:05:49.520 So, and then you grapple with it.

01:05:59.880 Thoughts on the Eastern idea of moving away from excessive thinking into the awareness beyond thinking.

01:06:06.000 Removing it from the driver's seat to be used more as a tool.

01:06:09.100 Yeah, well, I thought a lot about this in relationship to a couple of ancient ideas.

01:06:17.140 The one Mesopotamian idea, characterization of Marduk, who was the highest Mesopotamian deity.

01:06:23.880 It was Marduk who carved up the goddess of chaos, Tiamat, into pieces and made the world out of her pieces. 0.98

01:06:33.040 So, Marduk is the force that confronts chaos and builds habitable order, like the Logos in Genesis.

01:06:39.420 And one of Marduk's attributes was that he had eyes all the way around his head and that he could speak magic words.

01:06:45.780 Those two attributes, but it's the eyes that are of most crucial importance with regard to this question.

01:06:51.560 Then there's Horus, the Egyptian god, who's the famous eye.

01:06:55.760 And Horus is really a, what, a deification of attention, I would say.

01:07:02.880 And there's a difference between attention and thinking.

01:07:05.960 Like, let me give you an example.

01:07:08.280 So, thinking seems to be instrumental, mostly.

01:07:11.980 So, if you're thinking, but people also often say to me,

01:07:15.280 well, what's your strategy when you go into an interview?

01:07:19.800 And the answer is, well, I don't have a strategy when I go into an interview

01:07:23.640 because I'm there to have a conversation.

01:07:25.280 And I'm not sure where the conversation will go.

01:07:27.440 And I'm willing to let it go wherever it goes.

01:07:29.500 I'm not there to sell books, although I'm perfectly happy if more books sell,

01:07:33.460 because, well, because obviously I wrote a book and I want people to read it.

01:07:37.900 And there's a whole enterprise behind it.

01:07:39.800 And so, it's also my responsibility to do the marketing properly.

01:07:42.780 But I'm not going to do these interviews to sell books or to promote myself.

01:07:46.460 I don't have a strategic goal in mind,

01:07:51.260 except that I'm going to have a conversation and I'm going to say what I think

01:07:55.620 and take the consequences.

01:07:58.080 Because I assume that if I say something and I believe it's true,

01:08:02.340 then the consequences are as positive as they can be,

01:08:04.960 regardless of how they look at the time.

01:08:07.500 And that's an issue of faith,

01:08:08.880 because I believe that the habitable order is generated by spoken truth.

01:08:15.120 I believe that.

01:08:15.980 I think that's the truest thing I know.

01:08:20.580 And so, I go into the interview.

01:08:25.480 And I did this in my clinical practice.

01:08:27.160 And I try to do this when I'm talking to people, too.

01:08:29.220 Is that I'm not thinking about where the conversation is going

01:08:32.660 or what point I want to make or what I want the outcome to be.

01:08:35.980 Any of that.

01:08:36.540 I just let that go.

01:08:37.540 So, you know, it's within this broader framework of assuming that

01:08:41.040 the truth is the most effective means of progressing.

01:08:45.000 And then I pay attention.

01:08:47.440 And what happens when you pay attention is that

01:08:49.720 while you're watching a person,

01:08:51.240 this is a great treatment for social anxiety, by the way,

01:08:54.620 because if you're socially anxious,

01:08:55.960 you tend not to pay attention to the person.

01:08:57.720 Pay attention to who you're talking to.

01:08:59.500 Watch them like a hawk.

01:09:01.300 Like, not paranoid or anything like that,

01:09:03.540 and not too intently because you make them uncomfortable,

01:09:05.440 but intently pay attention to what they're saying,

01:09:09.260 to how they look, to their facial gestures, all of that.

01:09:11.680 Look at their face and watch and listen

01:09:14.500 and try to understand what they're saying.

01:09:16.820 And what you'll see is that, well, questions pop into your mind.

01:09:19.880 It's like, well, I didn't understand what you said.

01:09:21.500 Can you clarify that?

01:09:22.520 And it sounds like you mean this.

01:09:24.200 Is this what you mean?

01:09:25.540 But not in a, I'll put you on the spot

01:09:28.320 because I think you're wrong sort of way,

01:09:30.040 but in a clarification sort of way.

01:09:32.040 And all of that's attention.

01:09:33.780 And so when I'm doing clinical work with people,

01:09:37.240 and this is the reason I quit, by the way,

01:09:39.300 about a year ago,

01:09:40.160 is because I was starting to get distracted.

01:09:41.800 I had a rule, which was,

01:09:43.080 you have an hour with me

01:09:44.000 and I do nothing but pay attention to you.

01:09:46.120 I'm not thinking about what I want to accomplish.

01:09:49.460 I'm not thinking about the problems in my life.

01:09:51.880 I'm not distracted.

01:09:53.300 And I listen to you

01:09:54.300 and I ask questions when I don't understand.

01:09:56.520 And if a thought occurs to me

01:09:59.020 while I'm paying attention to you,

01:10:00.420 then I'll tell you what it is.

01:10:01.960 You see, and that's using awareness primarily

01:10:06.980 and thinking secondarily.

01:10:09.800 Like, I don't think,

01:10:11.200 well, here's how I want to cure this person

01:10:13.480 and I'm going to maneuver them

01:10:14.880 into certain responses

01:10:16.840 by using these communicative tools.

01:10:19.660 I think I'm going to pay attention to this person.

01:10:22.280 We're going to discuss where we're going and why.

01:10:25.540 I'm going to listen to what they say.

01:10:27.200 And then when they're talking,

01:10:29.140 things are going to occur within me.

01:10:31.280 I'm going to see images

01:10:32.220 and thoughts are going to emerge from the background.

01:10:37.220 And then I'll share them.

01:10:39.840 Not always,

01:10:40.720 because I usually have more thoughts than can be shared.

01:10:43.520 But if a thought comes up

01:10:45.060 and it seems like an interesting reaction

01:10:47.320 to what the person just said,

01:10:48.840 then I'll just tell them

01:10:49.800 and sort of without commitment to it.

01:10:52.880 And it's usually,

01:10:54.700 okay, you just said this

01:10:55.980 and so this question emerged.

01:10:57.380 So we need to straighten that out

01:10:58.480 because I'm confused.

01:10:59.940 Or you said this

01:11:01.360 and I had this image.

01:11:02.540 Or you said this

01:11:03.400 and this thought came to mind.

01:11:05.880 And it seems to be,

01:11:08.820 this is this,

01:11:09.520 so that's one person's reaction

01:11:11.260 to the way that you're conducting yourself

01:11:13.500 at the moment.

01:11:15.060 So,

01:11:15.780 thinking is instrumental.

01:11:18.740 I outlined this in,

01:11:19.940 I think it's rule seven.

01:11:21.980 Do what is meaningful,

01:11:23.180 not what is expedient.

01:11:25.140 If you do what's expedient,

01:11:26.680 you have a short-term conscious goal in mind

01:11:29.160 and you try to bend everything towards that end.

01:11:32.860 But if you're pursuing what's meaningful,

01:11:35.480 then you just pay attention to what's going on

01:11:37.940 and you react with truth.

01:11:40.200 And I think that's,

01:11:42.340 that's a much better way of living

01:11:43.740 as far as I'm concerned.

01:11:45.080 It's,

01:11:45.520 it's a much more powerful way of living.

01:11:48.020 It means you have to confront things

01:11:50.000 right then and there.

01:11:53.200 Which is,

01:11:53.940 I suppose,

01:11:54.380 why so many of my interviews

01:11:56.160 have been,

01:11:57.060 in some sense,

01:11:57.780 confrontational.

01:11:59.560 Because people will

01:12:00.740 impose a thinking agenda

01:12:03.380 on the flow of the conversation.

01:12:05.120 This is especially true

01:12:06.080 in the mainstream media.

01:12:07.300 Happened again recently

01:12:08.380 with BBC's Hard Talk.

01:12:11.180 They impose an agenda

01:12:12.660 on the conversation

01:12:13.560 and then that just doesn't work out very well

01:12:15.680 because

01:12:16.040 I'm paying attention

01:12:19.120 and I will object to the agenda.

01:12:23.000 Not because I have a different agenda

01:12:25.300 except for what I said,

01:12:28.280 which is that I want to say what I think.

01:12:31.220 I want to say as truthfully as I can

01:12:33.320 what I actually am thinking.

01:12:35.820 in this more abstracted

01:12:39.140 and detached sense

01:12:40.140 and see what happens.

01:12:42.260 So,

01:12:43.360 it's a hard thing to clarify

01:12:45.140 because

01:12:45.600 you might say,

01:12:47.900 well,

01:12:48.480 Dr. Peterson,

01:12:49.340 you just said

01:12:49.960 you want to say

01:12:50.740 what you're thinking.

01:12:51.860 But,

01:12:52.380 it's not exactly

01:12:54.100 the same thing.

01:12:55.020 It's not like

01:12:55.560 I'm thinking strategically.

01:12:57.780 I'm listening.

01:12:59.980 Thoughts emerge

01:13:01.700 and I say them.

01:13:03.900 I'm not trying to manipulate.

01:13:05.440 I'm not putting spin on things.

01:13:06.800 I'm not trying to manipulate

01:13:07.760 the conversation

01:13:08.540 in any particular way.

01:13:09.900 And again,

01:13:10.460 the reason for that

01:13:11.520 is because

01:13:12.380 I decided

01:13:13.460 a long time ago,

01:13:14.740 probably 30 years,

01:13:16.200 that

01:13:16.920 there was no more

01:13:18.440 effective way

01:13:19.180 of dealing with

01:13:19.720 a complex situation

01:13:20.800 than to try to say

01:13:22.720 what you believe

01:13:23.520 to be true

01:13:24.220 and not to manipulate it.

01:13:26.520 None of that.

01:13:27.280 It just doesn't...

01:13:27.820 Because that's all...

01:13:28.440 Those are all lies

01:13:29.220 as far as I'm concerned.

01:13:30.300 That kind of manipulation

01:13:31.240 and spin.

01:13:32.380 So,

01:13:32.900 if he who is invited

01:13:42.180 to the largest

01:13:42.780 possible number of games

01:13:44.300 is also the person

01:13:45.320 that goes out

01:13:45.840 to conquer the unknown,

01:13:47.280 could this lie

01:13:48.100 in reciprocal altruism?

01:13:49.440 That's a really good question.

01:13:51.140 I would say

01:13:51.920 it almost certainly does.

01:13:54.620 You certainly see

01:13:56.100 the reciprocal altruism

01:13:58.100 in being invited

01:13:59.880 to the largest

01:14:00.540 possible number of games.

01:14:01.640 So, a little background here.

01:14:02.620 It's like,

01:14:03.000 well, what's a winner?

01:14:04.060 Well, a winner is someone

01:14:05.080 who wins a game.

01:14:06.220 It's like, no.

01:14:07.200 A winner is someone

01:14:08.160 who gets invited

01:14:09.060 to play the largest

01:14:10.240 possible number of games.

01:14:12.000 And that means

01:14:12.920 that you have to be

01:14:13.640 a good sport.

01:14:14.420 And so, the good sport

01:14:15.360 is the winner

01:14:16.040 in the broader game,

01:14:17.220 in the metagame.

01:14:18.420 Now,

01:14:19.200 I put forward

01:14:20.080 the proposition

01:14:20.760 that the winner

01:14:22.300 of the metagame

01:14:23.120 is also the person

01:14:24.120 that goes out

01:14:24.680 to conquer the unknown.

01:14:26.620 Now, let's see

01:14:27.620 if we can take that

01:14:28.340 apart a little bit.

01:14:29.120 Well,

01:14:30.000 one of the

01:14:31.640 attributes

01:14:32.440 of being a good sport,

01:14:33.860 let's say,

01:14:35.260 is that you're trying

01:14:36.040 to extend your skill

01:14:36.980 during the game.

01:14:38.100 And so,

01:14:38.700 you are confronting

01:14:39.440 the unknown

01:14:40.040 in the game

01:14:40.920 because you're trying

01:14:41.500 to get better

01:14:41.980 at playing the game.

01:14:43.300 And then,

01:14:43.900 you're also doing that

01:14:44.780 in a way

01:14:45.160 that's of benefit

01:14:45.860 to the team.

01:14:47.060 And so,

01:14:47.340 then you can imagine

01:14:48.060 that being a team leader

01:14:49.280 in the metagame,

01:14:51.340 which is the game

01:14:52.020 of extending your skill

01:14:53.240 across the broadest

01:14:54.840 possible set of games,

01:14:56.040 is analogous

01:14:57.300 to leading a team

01:14:58.580 into the unknown.

01:15:00.460 So,

01:15:00.920 if you're going

01:15:01.220 to go confront

01:15:01.780 the unknown,

01:15:02.360 you're probably

01:15:02.680 not going to do it alone,

01:15:03.960 although you could.

01:15:05.380 And to some degree,

01:15:06.280 you have to be alone.

01:15:07.240 But you're generally

01:15:08.240 going to do it

01:15:08.820 in a cooperative

01:15:09.540 and competitive way.

01:15:11.260 I mean,

01:15:11.440 that's why in stories

01:15:12.500 like The Lord of the Rings

01:15:13.660 and The Hobbit,

01:15:14.400 for example,

01:15:14.980 and even Harry Potter,

01:15:16.220 for that matter,

01:15:17.160 none of those people

01:15:17.980 are alone.

01:15:19.020 They lead

01:15:20.040 or are part

01:15:21.380 of a broader

01:15:22.060 social group.

01:15:22.960 and they're important

01:15:24.280 and they're team players

01:15:25.600 within that group.

01:15:27.080 So,

01:15:27.520 the team player element

01:15:28.600 seems to be something

01:15:29.500 that's common

01:15:30.120 to conquering the unknown

01:15:31.460 and to reciprocal altruism

01:15:33.740 and to being invited

01:15:35.080 to play the largest

01:15:35.820 number of games.

01:15:37.080 The question,

01:15:37.680 then,

01:15:37.780 is what makes

01:15:38.320 an effective leader?

01:15:39.760 And an effective leader

01:15:40.820 is someone

01:15:41.300 who's able

01:15:41.780 to synthesize the group

01:15:43.380 and to lead it forward

01:15:44.620 towards the goal.

01:15:46.460 Yeah,

01:15:46.700 that's it.

01:15:47.320 And,

01:15:47.560 you know,

01:15:47.760 in a game,

01:15:49.200 obviously,

01:15:50.140 the good player

01:15:50.780 is leading the team

01:15:51.640 forward to the goal.

01:15:52.960 And it's the same

01:15:53.940 in a quest.

01:15:55.160 The good player

01:15:56.120 is the leader

01:15:56.820 who's leading the team

01:15:57.740 towards the goal.

01:15:58.980 So,

01:15:59.480 there's a deep analogy there.

01:16:02.080 And,

01:16:02.680 it's not just

01:16:06.660 reciprocal altruism.

01:16:09.080 I don't think

01:16:10.020 that's quite

01:16:10.560 the right terminology,

01:16:11.720 though,

01:16:11.880 because there's

01:16:12.760 an element

01:16:13.180 of pragmatic

01:16:14.180 competence

01:16:17.420 that goes along

01:16:18.260 with it,

01:16:18.680 too.

01:16:18.840 you can't

01:16:22.100 merely be willing

01:16:23.120 to engage

01:16:23.720 in reciprocal

01:16:24.340 altruism

01:16:24.960 to be a good

01:16:25.600 player

01:16:26.060 or to conquer

01:16:28.700 the unknown.

01:16:29.360 You also have

01:16:30.080 to have skill

01:16:30.840 and discipline.

01:16:32.540 So,

01:16:32.760 I would say

01:16:33.160 reciprocal altruism

01:16:34.220 is necessary

01:16:35.660 but not sufficient

01:16:36.720 precondition.

01:16:38.880 Right?

01:16:39.200 Talent,

01:16:39.680 skill,

01:16:40.000 ability,

01:16:41.280 all of those things

01:16:42.060 are,

01:16:42.800 creativity,

01:16:43.440 all of those things

01:16:44.260 are also important.

01:16:46.100 So,

01:16:47.340 that's a bit

01:16:49.120 of an answer

01:16:49.540 to that.

01:16:50.080 But,

01:16:50.240 it's a very,

01:16:50.580 very good question.

01:16:52.260 So,

01:16:52.920 please confirm

01:16:53.640 if your Harry Potter

01:16:54.660 patronus

01:16:55.440 patronus

01:16:57.140 would in fact

01:16:58.120 be a frog.

01:16:59.080 We need answers,

01:17:00.260 doctor.

01:17:01.640 Well,

01:17:02.100 you'd certainly

01:17:02.500 think that,

01:17:03.120 wouldn't you?

01:17:04.940 A frog.

01:17:06.260 Well,

01:17:06.540 I think that's obvious.

01:17:07.580 It's got to be a frog

01:17:08.540 or maybe a lobster.

01:17:09.620 Ha ha.

01:17:13.440 I wouldn't have guessed

01:17:16.240 that it would be a frog

01:17:17.140 but that certainly

01:17:18.180 seems to be

01:17:18.820 how things have developed.

01:17:23.080 And,

01:17:23.620 I suppose,

01:17:24.140 you know,

01:17:24.340 a frog is at home

01:17:26.160 on dry land

01:17:27.960 and in the water

01:17:28.640 and

01:17:31.400 that makes the frog

01:17:34.460 a kind of

01:17:35.040 cycle pomp

01:17:35.820 and I've strived

01:17:38.320 to be at home

01:17:39.280 in the air

01:17:39.880 and in the water

01:17:40.660 and to bring up

01:17:42.240 the gold ball

01:17:42.900 from the bottom

01:17:43.520 of the lake

01:17:44.500 like the frog prince.

01:17:48.580 Yeah,

01:17:49.220 yeah,

01:17:49.600 definitely frog.

01:17:51.000 Okay,

01:17:51.440 so you've got

01:17:51.920 your answer.

01:17:55.680 I've got my answer too,

01:17:56.980 I guess.

01:17:59.320 On completing

01:18:00.240 understandmyself.com

01:18:02.560 I scored

01:18:03.080 exceptionally low

01:18:03.940 zero on

01:18:04.580 conscientiousness,

01:18:05.540 industriousness,

01:18:06.240 and orderliness.

01:18:07.140 What can I do

01:18:07.940 for motivation?

01:18:09.600 Well,

01:18:09.920 Dean,

01:18:10.120 the first question is

01:18:11.080 how old are you

01:18:12.040 and you're going

01:18:14.220 to have an easier

01:18:14.760 life if you're

01:18:15.500 still young

01:18:16.200 because if you're

01:18:17.400 older and you

01:18:18.000 have that score

01:18:18.700 then that's going

01:18:19.500 to be rough.

01:18:22.200 Perhaps you're

01:18:22.880 high in openness

01:18:23.460 in which case

01:18:24.740 you're going to

01:18:25.840 derive your motivation

01:18:26.760 from engaging

01:18:28.440 in creative endeavors.

01:18:29.940 Perhaps you're

01:18:30.420 high in agreeableness

01:18:31.280 which means

01:18:32.260 which means that

01:18:32.500 you might find

01:18:33.180 meaning in caring

01:18:34.020 for other people.

01:18:35.140 Perhaps extroversion

01:18:36.300 which means you're

01:18:37.220 going to find

01:18:37.760 engagement in

01:18:38.720 being with other

01:18:39.700 people.

01:18:41.940 So those are

01:18:43.300 potential sources

01:18:44.180 of motivation.

01:18:45.440 You may have to

01:18:46.200 look elsewhere

01:18:46.800 than duty

01:18:48.040 let's say

01:18:48.900 and achievement

01:18:50.320 ambition

01:18:50.880 for your primary

01:18:52.240 sources of motivation.

01:18:53.760 One thing I would

01:18:54.620 caution you though

01:18:55.500 is that you

01:18:56.740 likely need to

01:18:58.220 make friends

01:18:58.740 with a scheduler

01:18:59.680 like Google Calendar.

01:19:01.720 Try to design

01:19:02.700 days you want

01:19:03.420 to have

01:19:03.820 and to learn

01:19:04.660 to structure

01:19:07.020 your time

01:19:07.580 because

01:19:07.960 even if you're

01:19:10.560 high in openness

01:19:11.140 which makes you

01:19:12.080 creative

01:19:12.840 you're going to

01:19:14.000 have a hell of a

01:19:14.660 time sticking to

01:19:15.380 things.

01:19:16.680 And so

01:19:17.200 maybe you need

01:19:18.160 to partner

01:19:18.640 with someone

01:19:20.160 who's high in

01:19:20.720 conscientiousness.

01:19:23.120 But I would

01:19:23.980 really recommend

01:19:24.720 trying to

01:19:25.320 discipline yourself.

01:19:26.560 Use Google Calendar

01:19:28.100 to design

01:19:29.020 the days

01:19:29.460 you want

01:19:29.820 to have

01:19:30.240 and learn

01:19:31.460 to schedule

01:19:32.740 and regulate

01:19:34.000 your time

01:19:35.420 use

01:19:35.820 because

01:19:36.280 zero is very

01:19:38.460 low

01:19:38.720 and my

01:19:39.480 suspicions are

01:19:40.220 you'll pay

01:19:40.560 quite a high

01:19:41.040 price for that.

01:19:42.380 So

01:19:42.520 what do you

01:19:46.080 think about

01:19:46.500 Ellis Miller

01:19:47.040 and her thesis

01:19:47.700 that most

01:19:48.240 psychological

01:19:48.740 diseases

01:19:49.320 and aberrant

01:19:49.880 behavior

01:19:50.240 are the result

01:19:50.800 of some

01:19:51.140 kind of

01:19:51.520 childhood

01:19:51.840 trauma?

01:19:52.860 Some are

01:19:53.580 but some

01:19:55.320 forms of

01:19:55.880 childhood

01:19:56.280 trauma

01:19:56.760 are also

01:19:57.300 a consequence

01:19:57.960 of psychological

01:19:58.820 diseases

01:19:59.460 and aberrant

01:20:00.060 behavior.

01:20:01.100 So this is

01:20:01.500 very, very

01:20:01.940 complicated.

01:20:03.380 I'm more

01:20:04.240 on the

01:20:04.580 existentialist

01:20:05.520 front with

01:20:06.080 regards to

01:20:06.640 these sorts

01:20:07.080 of theories.

01:20:07.580 So Ellis

01:20:08.000 Miller's thesis

01:20:08.720 is basically

01:20:09.460 Freudian,

01:20:10.180 Freud's thesis.

01:20:11.760 Freud

01:20:12.160 certainly

01:20:13.740 posited

01:20:15.100 that many

01:20:16.380 forms of

01:20:16.960 psychological

01:20:17.500 distress

01:20:17.940 were a

01:20:18.400 consequence

01:20:18.760 of childhood

01:20:20.020 trauma

01:20:20.480 of various

01:20:21.180 sorts.

01:20:23.660 I think

01:20:24.460 the

01:20:24.660 existentialist

01:20:25.360 take on

01:20:25.780 that is

01:20:26.040 more

01:20:26.220 accurate

01:20:26.620 which is

01:20:27.020 that

01:20:27.240 life

01:20:28.180 in and of

01:20:29.300 itself

01:20:29.760 is sufficiently

01:20:30.920 harsh

01:20:31.560 and full

01:20:32.600 of betrayal

01:20:33.280 and other

01:20:33.820 forms of

01:20:34.300 malevolence

01:20:34.840 to cause

01:20:35.860 any number

01:20:36.460 of psychological

01:20:37.200 diseases

01:20:37.760 and produce

01:20:38.440 any amount

01:20:39.040 of aberrant

01:20:39.660 behavior.

01:20:40.880 So I don't

01:20:41.960 think it has

01:20:42.480 to be,

01:20:42.860 it's not as

01:20:43.420 if we all

01:20:43.940 had childhoods

01:20:44.900 without trauma

01:20:45.560 that we would

01:20:46.080 have grown up

01:20:46.560 to be perfect

01:20:47.240 adults.

01:20:49.160 That's also

01:20:49.840 a disguised

01:20:51.320 form of

01:20:51.960 Rousseauian

01:20:52.700 philosophy

01:20:53.320 and Rousseau's

01:20:54.260 philosophy is

01:20:54.940 people are

01:20:55.660 basically good

01:20:56.320 but culture

01:20:57.000 makes them

01:20:58.020 evil

01:20:58.620 and that's

01:20:59.900 not true.

01:21:00.460 People are

01:21:00.840 basically good

01:21:01.800 and evil

01:21:02.480 and culture

01:21:03.540 fortifies

01:21:05.920 the possibility

01:21:06.760 of both,

01:21:07.580 adds strength

01:21:08.260 to the possibility

01:21:09.100 of both.

01:21:10.400 So I

01:21:12.240 think that

01:21:13.940 people are

01:21:15.860 sometimes damaged

01:21:16.800 in childhood

01:21:17.440 in ways that

01:21:18.220 need to be

01:21:18.760 addressed in

01:21:19.300 adulthood

01:21:19.700 but that

01:21:20.500 there are

01:21:20.860 plenty,

01:21:21.760 plenty of

01:21:22.480 other reasons

01:21:23.060 for psychological

01:21:23.980 and physical

01:21:24.860 disorder.

01:21:27.340 Genetic

01:21:27.860 causes,

01:21:29.220 causes

01:21:33.900 related to

01:21:34.620 all sorts

01:21:35.040 of physical

01:21:35.500 diseases.

01:21:36.780 No,

01:21:37.060 it's way

01:21:37.380 too simple.

01:21:38.000 It's way

01:21:38.380 too simple

01:21:38.940 a hypothesis

01:21:40.680 and it's

01:21:41.300 caused an

01:21:41.700 awful lot

01:21:42.080 of trouble

01:21:42.460 because a

01:21:43.800 lot of

01:21:44.160 simple-minded

01:21:44.720 therapists

01:21:45.200 always assume

01:21:45.940 that if

01:21:46.340 someone is

01:21:47.100 having

01:21:47.340 psychological

01:21:47.900 problems in

01:21:49.160 adulthood it

01:21:49.740 must be

01:21:50.160 because they

01:21:51.040 had childhood

01:21:51.680 trauma and

01:21:52.500 everybody has

01:21:53.180 an unhappy

01:21:53.660 childhood to

01:21:54.380 some degree

01:21:54.840 so you can

01:21:55.260 always find

01:21:55.760 something and

01:21:56.800 often the

01:21:57.420 childhood trauma

01:21:58.160 that they're

01:21:58.560 looking for has

01:21:59.220 to be sexual

01:21:59.960 and so they

01:22:00.740 dig and

01:22:01.140 dig until

01:22:01.640 they find

01:22:02.760 or invent

01:22:03.580 often invent

01:22:05.060 something that

01:22:06.360 allows a

01:22:07.880 single causal

01:22:08.760 attribution and

01:22:09.780 life just isn't

01:22:11.600 that simple.

01:22:12.300 There's lots of

01:22:13.240 reasons to be

01:22:13.860 ill.

01:22:14.440 Way more

01:22:15.000 reasons to be

01:22:15.640 ill than to

01:22:16.080 be healthy.

01:22:16.560 So what if

01:22:19.700 the truth could

01:22:20.420 unravel your

01:22:21.300 entire life?

01:22:23.240 Yeah well

01:22:23.880 first of all

01:22:24.400 it would and

01:22:25.760 second yeah I

01:22:26.620 know what you

01:22:27.020 mean.

01:22:27.820 You mean what

01:22:28.960 if I suppose

01:22:30.460 a cardinal case

01:22:31.800 there would be

01:22:32.300 that you did

01:22:32.740 something really

01:22:33.300 terrible and

01:22:33.960 that if that

01:22:34.560 was revealed it

01:22:35.260 would be a

01:22:36.160 catastrophic

01:22:36.700 situation.

01:22:38.160 It's like

01:22:38.400 without knowing

01:22:39.840 the details of

01:22:40.840 that I can't

01:22:41.640 provide a generic

01:22:42.540 answer.

01:22:43.640 You know I

01:22:44.000 think that there

01:22:44.700 are some

01:22:46.120 sins that are 1.00

01:22:46.960 so egregious

01:22:47.720 that you don't

01:22:48.460 get to confess

01:22:49.280 to them.

01:22:49.960 You know like

01:22:50.500 if you've done

01:22:50.980 something terrible

01:22:51.760 and I'm not

01:22:52.960 recommending this

01:22:53.820 it's just an

01:22:54.400 example.

01:22:54.920 If you've done

01:22:55.300 something terrible

01:22:55.920 and you know

01:22:56.520 that if you

01:22:57.300 revealed it it

01:22:57.940 would blow the

01:22:58.920 lives of many

01:22:59.620 people around

01:23:00.220 you apart

01:23:00.740 it isn't

01:23:01.440 obvious to me

01:23:02.160 that you have

01:23:02.640 any moral

01:23:03.420 justification

01:23:05.200 for confessing

01:23:07.100 just to free 0.99

01:23:07.800 your miserable 0.99

01:23:08.420 soul. 0.99

01:23:09.720 So what if

01:23:11.040 the truth could

01:23:11.620 unravel your

01:23:12.320 entire life?

01:23:13.360 Well maybe you

01:23:13.800 need to go to

01:23:14.340 Catholic confession

01:23:15.180 and let someone

01:23:15.960 know exactly

01:23:16.640 what happened

01:23:17.160 so you're clear

01:23:17.820 about it

01:23:18.180 then maybe

01:23:18.720 what you need

01:23:19.260 to do is

01:23:19.700 to swear to

01:23:20.400 whatever God

01:23:21.060 you worship

01:23:21.660 that you're

01:23:22.520 going to try

01:23:22.900 to walk the

01:23:23.440 straight and

01:23:23.820 narrow from

01:23:24.300 here on in

01:23:25.180 and that'll

01:23:25.680 be sufficient

01:23:26.280 to atone

01:23:27.580 for whatever

01:23:28.420 terrible thing

01:23:29.200 that you did

01:23:29.820 and that's a

01:23:30.840 form of prayer

01:23:32.160 and it sounds

01:23:33.000 like one that

01:23:34.000 you desperately

01:23:34.560 need at least

01:23:35.600 in principle.

01:23:37.420 So without

01:23:41.300 knowing the

01:23:41.820 details that's

01:23:42.500 about the best

01:23:43.020 I can do

01:23:43.620 I think

01:23:49.960 what put

01:23:50.960 you over

01:23:51.380 with so

01:23:51.760 many of us

01:23:52.200 was the

01:23:52.520 constructive

01:23:52.980 message of

01:23:53.600 how to be

01:23:53.960 a good man

01:23:54.580 well a good

01:23:55.260 person I

01:23:55.900 would say

01:23:56.320 do you think

01:23:57.420 that's where

01:23:57.860 the media

01:23:58.220 want you to

01:23:58.820 go?

01:23:59.340 I don't

01:23:59.760 know

01:24:00.160 generally

01:24:00.840 not

01:24:01.240 I mentioned

01:24:03.260 this earlier

01:24:03.840 is the

01:24:04.300 media as

01:24:05.380 it disintegrates

01:24:06.220 and it

01:24:06.760 certainly is

01:24:07.260 disintegrating

01:24:07.880 at an

01:24:08.180 incredibly

01:24:08.640 rapid rate

01:24:09.420 everything is

01:24:12.180 political

01:24:12.600 it's as if

01:24:13.580 the philosophical

01:24:14.320 and the

01:24:15.380 psychological

01:24:15.940 and the

01:24:16.760 theological

01:24:17.260 don't exist

01:24:18.720 and you know

01:24:19.960 increasingly in

01:24:20.880 my interviews

01:24:21.580 I've been

01:24:22.200 talking about

01:24:23.820 what's been

01:24:24.280 happening at

01:24:25.040 my lectures

01:24:25.600 on my tour

01:24:26.260 and describing

01:24:27.120 the fact that

01:24:27.820 the vast majority

01:24:29.080 of the audience

01:24:29.940 isn't there for

01:24:30.540 political reasons

01:24:31.280 at all

01:24:31.600 they're there

01:24:31.980 because they

01:24:32.440 want to

01:24:32.880 figure out

01:24:33.880 how to have

01:24:34.440 a responsible

01:24:35.100 and meaningful

01:24:35.900 life

01:24:36.380 and it's as if

01:24:37.440 that story

01:24:38.420 just doesn't

01:24:39.000 exist

01:24:39.540 the framework

01:24:41.100 which is

01:24:41.640 basically

01:24:42.120 a political

01:24:42.960 framework

01:24:43.400 and increasingly

01:24:44.220 a politically

01:24:44.740 correct framework

01:24:45.500 doesn't allow

01:24:46.780 that to exist

01:24:47.860 as a reality

01:24:48.780 and that's

01:24:50.700 why

01:24:50.960 well

01:24:52.340 I'm much

01:24:53.320 more comfortable

01:24:54.020 lecturing

01:24:55.860 to the

01:24:57.460 crowds that

01:24:58.000 have been

01:24:58.320 coming to

01:24:58.780 see me

01:24:59.060 than I am

01:24:59.560 talking to

01:25:00.100 journalists

01:25:00.520 it's become

01:25:01.040 I have to

01:25:02.300 I have been

01:25:02.780 limiting my

01:25:03.480 interactions

01:25:05.100 with journalists

01:25:05.760 even though

01:25:06.140 that might not

01:25:06.640 be self-evident

01:25:07.400 yet

01:25:07.660 I have been

01:25:08.180 trying to

01:25:08.560 do that

01:25:09.000 that

01:25:09.880 the demands

01:25:11.000 have been

01:25:11.340 increasing

01:25:11.840 so

01:25:13.100 the proportion

01:25:15.280 of media

01:25:16.040 invitations

01:25:17.360 that I'm

01:25:17.900 responding to

01:25:18.600 has fallen

01:25:19.140 dramatically

01:25:19.780 even though

01:25:20.480 the absolute

01:25:21.160 number

01:25:21.760 hasn't declined

01:25:22.840 as precipitously

01:25:23.980 and the reason

01:25:24.900 for that

01:25:25.280 is that

01:25:25.660 well I find

01:25:26.240 the typical

01:25:27.880 interview

01:25:28.500 very stressful

01:25:30.100 very very

01:25:30.880 stressful

01:25:31.340 I'm on guard

01:25:32.700 and I would

01:25:33.640 say also

01:25:34.240 my attitude

01:25:34.840 isn't as good

01:25:35.940 as it could

01:25:36.360 be anymore

01:25:36.820 because I've

01:25:37.540 been

01:25:37.760 I'm

01:25:39.200 because I'm

01:25:39.840 on guard

01:25:40.220 so much

01:25:40.620 it's easier

01:25:41.080 for me to

01:25:41.540 get a bit

01:25:42.000 snappy

01:25:42.560 and unpleasant

01:25:43.820 and that's

01:25:44.680 bad

01:25:45.040 that's bad

01:25:45.660 I don't want

01:25:46.100 to do that

01:25:46.600 I want to

01:25:47.160 stay calm

01:25:47.780 and detached

01:25:48.780 and try to

01:25:49.940 you know

01:25:50.860 tell the truth

01:25:51.500 and be happy

01:25:52.040 that I'm there

01:25:52.580 regardless of

01:25:53.400 the circumstances

01:25:54.800 the fact

01:25:56.640 that the

01:25:58.000 mainstream media

01:25:59.840 let's say

01:26:00.380 is not

01:26:01.360 very receptive

01:26:02.980 although sometimes

01:26:04.280 there's exceptions

01:26:05.000 not very receptive

01:26:06.920 to the idea

01:26:07.660 that I could

01:26:08.800 just be going

01:26:09.420 around talking

01:26:10.060 to people

01:26:10.520 who want to

01:26:11.140 get their life

01:26:11.660 together

01:26:12.040 is quite

01:26:12.820 saddening

01:26:13.540 and I think

01:26:14.000 it's definitely

01:26:14.720 a commentary

01:26:15.440 on the

01:26:16.040 fundamental

01:26:16.540 corruption

01:26:17.120 of our

01:26:18.280 media

01:26:18.680 apparatus

01:26:19.340 I think

01:26:26.340 it's better

01:26:26.800 to talk

01:26:27.260 on YouTube

01:26:27.900 to speak

01:26:29.520 on my podcast

01:26:30.200 to do these

01:26:30.900 lectures

01:26:31.280 and I think

01:26:32.700 it's increasingly

01:26:33.600 better to do

01:26:34.280 that

01:26:34.440 the long-form

01:26:35.540 discussions

01:26:36.080 on YouTube

01:26:37.180 though

01:26:37.560 with people

01:26:38.020 like Joe Rogan

01:26:38.820 and Dave Rubin

01:26:39.540 and so forth

01:26:40.800 that works

01:26:41.700 just fine

01:26:42.320 so

01:26:43.320 a new media

01:26:44.880 form is

01:26:46.480 emerging

01:26:46.900 and I think

01:26:47.380 it's going to

01:26:47.720 be a lot

01:26:48.100 more productive

01:26:48.700 it won't be

01:26:49.960 as scripted

01:26:50.580 it'll be

01:26:50.900 much longer

01:26:51.460 form

01:26:51.840 it'll be

01:26:52.180 allow for

01:26:52.680 much more

01:26:53.220 thoughtfulness

01:26:54.220 and

01:26:56.700 I'm

01:26:59.660 but it's

01:27:02.220 okay

01:27:02.580 it's not

01:27:03.640 like the

01:27:04.220 media exposure

01:27:05.020 although it's

01:27:06.080 been stressful

01:27:06.640 it's not

01:27:07.060 like I'm

01:27:07.460 not grateful

01:27:08.040 for it

01:27:08.600 even

01:27:10.280 people who

01:27:11.020 put me

01:27:11.400 on the spot

01:27:11.900 very badly

01:27:12.560 have ended

01:27:13.060 up doing

01:27:13.460 me a

01:27:13.760 tremendous

01:27:14.120 favor

01:27:14.600 but

01:27:15.420 the problem

01:27:16.140 is that

01:27:16.700 because

01:27:17.700 the problem

01:27:22.280 is I'm

01:27:22.640 becoming too

01:27:23.140 much on

01:27:23.560 guard

01:27:23.820 and I've

01:27:24.860 noticed

01:27:25.220 a developing

01:27:26.580 sense of

01:27:27.180 impatience

01:27:27.900 within me

01:27:29.600 and some

01:27:30.560 suspicion

01:27:31.100 and that's

01:27:32.560 not good

01:27:33.000 I don't want

01:27:33.740 to be in

01:27:34.080 situations

01:27:34.540 where those

01:27:35.100 are my

01:27:35.440 fundamental

01:27:35.920 orientations

01:27:36.720 it's a sign

01:27:38.520 of a certain

01:27:39.040 amount of

01:27:39.420 internal

01:27:39.760 corruption

01:27:40.160 on my

01:27:40.580 part

01:27:40.880 and I

01:27:43.760 want to be

01:27:44.160 in situations

01:27:44.820 where I'm

01:27:45.520 speaking with

01:27:46.200 people

01:27:46.620 speaking honestly

01:27:47.940 to people

01:27:48.400 who are

01:27:48.680 honestly

01:27:49.060 listening

01:27:49.520 that would

01:27:50.900 be

01:27:51.060 that's a

01:27:51.480 good

01:27:51.620 situation

01:27:52.180 so

01:27:52.900 would you

01:27:58.280 agree with

01:27:58.700 C.S.

01:27:59.100 Lewis that

01:27:59.500 if you look

01:27:59.960 for truth

01:28:00.460 you may

01:28:00.880 find comfort

01:28:01.540 if you

01:28:01.820 look for

01:28:02.140 comfort

01:28:02.480 you will

01:28:02.820 find despair

01:28:03.540 oh yes

01:28:04.140 that's

01:28:04.520 definitely

01:28:04.840 the case

01:28:05.360 it's quite

01:28:06.200 an intelligent

01:28:06.800 phrase

01:28:07.200 because he

01:28:07.680 says if

01:28:07.980 you look

01:28:08.340 for truth

01:28:08.740 you may

01:28:09.640 find comfort

01:28:10.640 he didn't

01:28:11.800 say you

01:28:12.200 will find

01:28:12.820 comfort

01:28:13.240 yeah well

01:28:14.020 sometimes if

01:28:14.600 you look

01:28:14.840 for truth

01:28:15.220 you don't

01:28:15.580 find comfort

01:28:16.100 to begin

01:28:16.540 with

01:28:16.740 that's

01:28:17.060 for sure

01:28:17.360 you find

01:28:17.780 a lot

01:28:18.040 of trouble

01:28:18.480 but sometimes

01:28:19.920 you have to

01:28:20.380 go through

01:28:20.720 a lot of

01:28:21.100 trouble

01:28:21.340 to get

01:28:21.700 to set

01:28:22.080 things

01:28:22.360 right

01:28:22.720 if you

01:28:23.480 look for

01:28:23.840 comfort

01:28:24.340 despair

01:28:25.120 well the

01:28:25.900 reason for

01:28:26.340 that is

01:28:26.740 that you

01:28:27.640 can't look

01:28:28.060 for comfort

01:28:28.520 in life

01:28:29.000 life isn't

01:28:30.400 about comfort

01:28:31.580 life is

01:28:32.560 a deadly

01:28:33.500 game

01:28:33.860 it's a

01:28:35.420 game of

01:28:35.800 life and

01:28:36.180 death

01:28:36.380 it's a

01:28:36.700 game of

01:28:37.040 good and

01:28:37.360 evil

01:28:37.600 it's

01:28:38.740 everything's

01:28:39.560 on the

01:28:39.920 line

01:28:40.240 your

01:28:41.180 sanity's

01:28:41.720 on the

01:28:42.000 line

01:28:42.280 your

01:28:43.160 freedom

01:28:45.680 from pain

01:28:46.360 is on

01:28:46.720 the line

01:28:47.140 your freedom

01:28:47.780 from despair

01:28:48.440 is on

01:28:48.820 the line

01:28:49.180 your family's

01:28:50.120 on the

01:28:50.400 line

01:28:50.640 there's no

01:28:51.580 comfort

01:28:51.980 life is

01:28:52.800 an adventure

01:28:53.380 and I

01:28:54.480 think the

01:28:54.780 greatest

01:28:55.060 adventure

01:28:55.540 that you

01:28:55.960 could possibly

01:28:56.520 have

01:28:56.940 is one

01:28:58.000 is the

01:28:58.760 one that

01:28:59.600 you find

01:29:00.220 if you

01:29:01.100 look for

01:29:02.580 the truth

01:29:02.980 and that's

01:29:06.360 a good

01:29:06.540 place to

01:29:06.960 stop

01:29:07.260 that's

01:29:08.440 been

01:29:08.600 90

01:29:08.880 minutes

01:29:09.260 and

01:29:10.100 I've

01:29:12.760 been

01:29:12.880 reasonably

01:29:13.260 sharp

01:29:13.720 and with

01:29:14.160 it

01:29:14.320 for the

01:29:14.760 full

01:29:14.920 90

01:29:15.180 minutes

01:29:15.540 and so

01:29:17.140 I think

01:29:18.760 I'll bring

01:29:19.940 it to a

01:29:20.240 close

01:29:20.520 just a

01:29:21.200 couple of

01:29:21.540 reminders

01:29:21.920 for those

01:29:23.360 of you

01:29:23.600 who tuned

01:29:23.960 in late

01:29:24.420 if you

01:29:25.600 want to

01:29:25.880 try out

01:29:26.300 the

01:29:26.460 self

01:29:26.700 authoring

01:29:27.140 program

01:29:27.560 I made

01:29:28.200 a code

01:29:28.680 August

01:29:29.340 and that

01:29:30.600 entitles you

01:29:31.420 to 20%

01:29:32.140 off

01:29:32.460 there's a

01:29:32.820 two-for-one

01:29:33.260 special

01:29:33.640 so you

01:29:34.000 can give

01:29:34.300 it to

01:29:34.520 a friend

01:29:34.880 as well

01:29:35.360 if you

01:29:36.220 want to

01:29:36.460 try

01:29:36.620 understand

01:29:37.160 myself

01:29:37.520 which is

01:29:37.980 a

01:29:38.100 personality

01:29:38.500 test

01:29:39.000 it only

01:29:40.460 takes

01:29:40.720 about

01:29:40.920 15

01:29:41.340 minutes

01:29:41.620 it's

01:29:41.840 quite

01:29:42.000 a bit

01:29:42.200 easier

01:29:42.500 than

01:29:42.740 the

01:29:43.060 self

01:29:43.280 authoring

01:29:43.700 suite

01:29:44.000 the code

01:29:45.640 for that

01:29:45.980 is also

01:29:46.420 August

01:29:46.820 that also

01:29:47.500 gives

01:29:47.720 you

01:29:47.820 20%

01:29:48.420 off

01:29:48.760 self

01:29:49.620 authoring

01:29:50.040 helps

01:29:50.300 you

01:29:50.440 write

01:29:50.600 about

01:29:50.800 your

01:29:50.960 past

01:29:51.340 and

01:29:51.600 present

01:29:51.960 and

01:29:52.180 future

01:29:52.500 and

01:29:53.040 you

01:29:53.180 can

01:29:53.300 do

01:29:53.440 a

01:29:53.560 bad

01:29:53.760 job

01:29:54.120 and

01:29:54.420 if

01:29:54.560 you

01:29:54.680 haven't

01:29:55.400 developed

01:29:55.840 a

01:29:56.020 life

01:29:56.240 plan

01:29:56.620 and

01:29:56.860 you

01:29:56.980 don't

01:29:57.200 know

01:29:57.360 where

01:29:57.500 you

01:29:57.660 are

01:29:57.840 and

01:29:58.040 you

01:29:58.160 don't

01:29:58.360 know

01:29:58.500 where

01:29:58.620 you're

01:29:58.800 going

01:29:59.100 then

01:29:59.760 I

01:30:00.060 would

01:30:00.200 highly

01:30:00.480 recommend

01:30:01.000 trying

01:30:01.400 the

01:30:01.560 program

01:30:01.880 and

01:30:02.160 you're

01:30:02.360 welcome

01:30:02.600 to

01:30:02.780 do

01:30:02.900 a

01:30:03.020 bad

01:30:03.240 job

01:30:03.620 at

01:30:04.180 it

01:30:04.360 because

01:30:05.020 a

01:30:05.340 bad

01:30:05.620 plan

01:30:05.920 is

01:30:06.140 a

01:30:06.780 lot

01:30:06.980 better

01:30:07.220 than

01:30:07.400 no

01:30:07.580 plan

01:30:07.860 at

01:30:07.980 all

01:30:08.140 and

01:30:08.440 understand

01:30:09.680 myself

01:30:10.180 will

01:30:10.460 help

01:30:10.880 you

01:30:11.020 understand

01:30:11.460 who

01:30:11.680 you

01:30:11.840 are

01:30:12.060 for

01:30:12.280 better

01:30:12.520 or

01:30:12.760 worse

01:30:13.020 and

01:30:13.280 people

01:30:14.240 have

01:30:14.440 responded

01:30:14.840 quite

01:30:15.120 positively

01:30:15.580 to

01:30:15.840 it

01:30:15.980 so

01:30:16.180 I

01:30:17.000 think

01:30:17.200 it's

01:30:17.380 worth

01:30:17.600 the

01:30:17.780 15

01:30:18.160 minutes

01:30:18.500 and

01:30:18.680 the

01:30:18.820 $9.95

01:30:19.380 that

01:30:19.800 it

01:30:19.980 costs

01:30:20.500 discounted

01:30:22.460 20%

01:30:22.980 now

01:30:23.320 so

01:30:23.520 I

01:30:23.640 guess

01:30:23.760 that's

01:30:24.020 about

01:30:24.220 $7.95

01:30:24.920 something

01:30:25.440 like

01:30:25.700 that

01:30:25.980 so

01:30:26.700 that

01:30:27.200 the

01:30:29.100 second

01:30:29.440 Iceland

01:30:29.820 lecture

01:30:30.240 is going

01:30:30.560 to come

01:30:30.780 out

01:30:30.940 soon

01:30:31.160 I

01:30:31.300 released

01:30:31.640 the

01:30:31.820 first

01:30:32.060 Iceland

01:30:32.400 lecture

01:30:32.780 which

01:30:33.000 is

01:30:33.140 part

01:30:33.340 of

01:30:33.440 12

01:30:33.660 rules

01:30:33.920 for

01:30:34.080 life

01:30:34.300 I

01:30:34.880 have

01:30:35.060 a

01:30:35.220 tour

01:30:35.460 coming

01:30:35.840 out

01:30:36.120 through

01:30:36.460 the

01:30:36.640 northeastern

01:30:37.200 part

01:30:37.500 of

01:30:37.580 the

01:30:37.660 United

01:30:37.880 States

01:30:38.300 starting

01:30:38.780 in

01:30:39.020 September

01:30:39.420 and

01:30:40.440 then

01:30:40.640 over

01:30:41.060 to

01:30:41.340 the

01:30:41.560 UK

01:30:41.840 and

01:30:42.080 northern

01:30:42.320 Europe

01:30:42.640 in

01:30:42.880 September

01:30:43.240 and

01:30:43.420 October

01:30:43.760 and

01:30:44.040 then

01:30:44.240 Australia

01:30:44.740 and

01:30:44.960 New

01:30:45.120 Zealand

01:30:45.360 in

01:30:45.680 February

01:30:46.120 I

01:30:48.940 really

01:30:49.320 enjoyed

01:30:49.680 the

01:30:49.860 tour

01:30:50.100 I

01:30:50.420 think

01:30:50.640 it's

01:30:51.000 an

01:30:51.420 amazing

01:30:51.880 opportunity

01:30:52.580 it's

01:30:56.000 been

01:30:56.220 extraordinarily

01:30:56.960 heartwarming

01:30:58.480 let's

01:30:58.860 say

01:30:59.060 to

01:30:59.640 talk

01:31:00.040 to

01:31:00.200 so

01:31:00.360 many

01:31:00.540 people

01:31:00.840 who

01:31:00.980 are

01:31:01.100 trying

01:31:01.280 to

01:31:01.400 put

01:31:01.500 their

01:31:01.640 lives

01:31:01.840 together

01:31:02.140 and

01:31:02.340 if

01:31:02.460 enough

01:31:02.680 people

01:31:02.960 do

01:31:03.140 that

01:31:03.380 then

01:31:03.640 they

01:31:04.700 will

01:31:04.900 put

01:31:05.080 their

01:31:05.240 lives

01:31:05.440 together

01:31:05.740 and

01:31:05.960 that

01:31:06.160 will

01:31:06.300 help

01:31:06.500 put

01:31:06.680 everything

01:31:07.000 else

01:31:07.240 together

01:31:07.600 and

01:31:08.600 so

01:31:08.820 hopefully

01:31:09.180 these

01:31:09.460 Q&A's

01:31:09.980 are

01:31:10.100 a

01:31:10.460 small

01:31:10.780 part

01:31:11.640 of

01:31:11.780 that

01:31:12.020 so

01:31:13.080 thank

01:31:13.460 you

01:31:13.580 very

01:31:13.800 much

01:31:14.080 for

01:31:14.440 listening

01:31:14.860 in

01:31:15.160 and

01:31:15.660 I'll

01:31:16.060 try

01:31:16.280 to

01:31:16.440 do

01:31:16.660 one

01:31:16.900 in

01:31:17.220 September

01:31:18.340 if

01:31:19.520 I

01:31:19.680 don't

01:31:19.960 it's

01:31:20.180 because

01:31:20.440 I'm

01:31:20.680 on

01:31:20.800 the

01:31:20.940 road

01:31:21.220 all

01:31:21.580 the

01:31:21.720 time

01:31:22.000 but

01:31:22.440 I

01:31:22.620 will

01:31:22.780 definitely

01:31:23.100 try

01:31:23.340 to

01:31:23.480 do

01:31:23.580 one

01:31:23.760 in

01:31:23.900 September

01:31:24.280 so

01:31:25.460 thank

01:31:26.140 you

01:31:26.360 for

01:31:26.600 to

01:31:26.820 my

01:31:27.000 Patreon

01:31:27.380 supporters

01:31:27.960 I

01:31:28.880 mentioned

01:31:29.200 to

01:31:29.360 you

01:31:29.520 guys

01:31:29.760 that

01:31:30.000 I

01:31:30.500 am

01:31:30.800 working

01:31:31.440 hard

01:31:31.720 on

01:31:31.880 the

01:31:31.980 online

01:31:32.300 university

01:31:32.760 and

01:31:32.960 have

01:31:33.100 hired

01:31:33.300 three

01:31:33.540 people

01:31:33.840 to

01:31:34.040 work

01:31:34.280 on

01:31:34.420 that

01:31:34.600 and

01:31:34.720 that

01:31:34.820 we're

01:31:35.180 about

01:31:35.420 a

01:31:35.540 year

01:31:35.680 ahead

01:31:35.920 of

01:31:36.060 schedule

01:31:36.400 I

01:31:36.580 would

01:31:36.720 say

01:31:36.960 where

01:31:37.240 I

01:31:37.380 thought

01:31:37.560 I'd

01:31:37.740 be

01:31:37.840 so

01:31:38.020 in

01:31:38.140 three

01:31:38.340 months

01:31:38.620 we're

01:31:38.780 a

01:31:38.900 year

01:31:39.040 ahead

01:31:39.260 of

01:31:39.380 where

01:31:39.520 I

01:31:39.640 figured

01:31:39.840 we'd

01:31:40.600 be

01:31:40.780 so

01:31:41.580 thanks

01:31:43.320 again

01:31:43.660 good

01:31:44.020 night

01:31:44.280 ciao

01:32:02.300 he

01:32:07.320 he

01:32:08.780 he

01:32:10.940 and

01:32:15.720 I

01:32:15.860 I

01:32:15.920 I

01:32:16.900 I

01:32:17.960 I

01:32:18.880 I

01:32:19.180 I

01:32:19.240 I

01:32:19.740 I

01:32:19.760 I

01:32:19.800 I

01:32:20.700 I

01:32:21.700 I

01:32:22.280 I

01:32:22.840 I

01:32:22.940 I

01:32:23.000 I

01:32:23.800 I

01:32:24.260 I

01:32:24.920 I

01:32:30.920 I

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - August 20, 2018

August 2018 Q & A

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript