The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

00:00:00.000 Germany is turning into a hellhole country. 0.94

00:00:04.320 We want policies, we want politics that actually represent the people again.

00:00:09.160 You've got a radically centralized Europe where the distance between the citizens and the government grew to like slave tyrant proportions.

00:00:18.960 But now we are at a point where the peoples of Europe are no longer sovereign.

00:00:24.640 Democratic principles are being abolished pretty much across the board throughout every single Western democracy.

00:00:33.240 The real seat of power and the real decision-making authority rests with supranational organizations like the WEF and the EU.

00:00:54.640 Hello, everybody.

00:00:59.220 I have a controversial guest today.

00:01:02.360 I suppose that's not particularly rare, although she might be more controversial than most.

00:01:10.160 Interviewing her, having the opportunity to interview her brought to mind the conundrum I faced when my wife and I talked with Tommy Robinson,

00:01:19.880 who brought the grooming gangs to the rape gangs to widespread public attention in the UK.

00:01:27.960 Tommy, who is a man not without his flaws, like all of us, by the way, has been pilloried in the UK press as far right.

00:01:38.840 And that's the same fate that's befallen my guest, Christine Anderson, who's a member of parliament for the European parliament,

00:01:46.080 representing Germany, Deutschland, and the political party alternative for Deutschland, the AFD,

00:01:53.840 which has also been described by the progressive mob, by the asleep liberals,

00:02:00.460 and by conservatives who are attempting to virtue signal, I think, in the same way as far right.

00:02:06.520 Well, I'm quite curious about the AFD and its rise in Germany, the rise of populist, right-wing, classic conservative parties throughout Eastern Europe

00:02:17.380 and in Western Europe, in Italy, in Sweden, in the Netherlands, and with reform, for example, in the UK.

00:02:25.780 I'm very curious about this phenomenon.

00:02:27.340 And I couldn't think of anyone better to talk to about this than Christine Anderson, who's also on a tour in Canada. 0.89

00:02:39.180 And so it was an opportune time to discuss immigration, unrestricted immigration into Europe, particularly into Germany.

00:02:46.680 The Euro, the European Union, globalization, net zero, and the COVID tyranny. 0.57

00:02:54.480 And so join us for that.

00:02:56.620 On a related note, by the way, because I'm very interested in what is happening in Europe,

00:03:02.440 I'm going on tour with my wife at the end of January till the end of March.

00:03:08.620 35, 40 European cities.

00:03:11.180 I've been there a couple of times, and it was great.

00:03:15.340 I'm going there to share what I have to say and to listen.

00:03:18.980 And so if you're interested in that and hearing me speak and participating in the events,

00:03:24.680 go to jordanbpeterson.com and check out the tour for January through March of 2026.

00:03:32.520 Thanks very much, and on with the show.

00:03:34.500 So I've been particularly nervous, I would say, in the last few years about two podcasts that I've done.

00:03:45.660 I had a period of illness, and when I came back to start my podcast up again in earnest,

00:03:50.440 I interviewed Abigail Schreier, and she wrote Irreversible Damage.

00:03:55.300 She was one of the earliest critics of the so-called gender-affirming care movement,

00:04:01.660 which is composed of a pack of ideologically addled, sadistic butchers, in my estimation. 0.98

00:04:08.760 And I felt that way then, although the situation was even worse than I had initially imagined.

00:04:15.000 And so that made me quite nervous, because at that time, three or four years ago,

00:04:20.220 it was reputationally risky to take on the woke mob with their latest delusion.

00:04:30.020 And more recently, I interviewed Tommy Robinson twice, both times with my wife,

00:04:36.600 partly because both of us had been following him for a long time.

00:04:39.540 And, you know, we come from a working-class background, Tammy and I,

00:04:44.360 again, I am accustomed to people like Tommy.

00:04:49.740 But more importantly, I'd been following him,

00:04:54.360 the two of us had been following him for about 15 years.

00:04:57.300 And as far as we were concerned, he was pretty much the only person in the UK.

00:05:02.260 There's some exceptions, but he was very early on

00:05:04.860 who was drawing public attention to the absolutely scandalous,

00:05:11.620 depraved rape gang situation in the UK.

00:05:14.360 And, you know, the Casey report just came out, right?

00:05:17.300 And that was commissioned by the Labour government,

00:05:20.220 who are complicit in all of this to a degree that's almost unimaginable.

00:05:24.940 And the Casey report's conclusion, as far as I understand it,

00:05:29.300 is that the situation is far worse than anyone had imagined.

00:05:34.540 So those are two of the podcasts that made me quite nervous.

00:05:38.520 But they were both, all three of them, because we interviewed Tommy twice,

00:05:43.040 they turned out to be very much worth doing.

00:05:46.760 This one makes me nervous too.

00:05:48.600 And I'll tell you why, first of all.

00:05:50.260 You know, I know a lot of the Conservatives in Canada

00:05:53.080 who aren't particularly happy with you.

00:05:55.460 You know, I have some interaction with Pierre Polyev

00:05:59.100 and some with Jason Kenney and, you know,

00:06:02.260 I was hopeful for the Conservatives in the last election cycle,

00:06:07.540 although that didn't work out so well.

00:06:11.280 And so, but having said that,

00:06:15.040 I'm curious about why the Conservatives in Canada

00:06:19.440 and maybe elsewhere in the world

00:06:21.360 are so committed to distancing themselves

00:06:24.640 from the Conservatives in Europe, right?

00:06:29.560 It's as if Canadian Conservatives in particular

00:06:33.560 find themselves obligated to swallow

00:06:38.240 the progressive insistence

00:06:40.980 that there is a emergent far right in Europe

00:06:45.120 and that it poses a true danger.

00:06:47.760 You know, and it's so interesting when those rumours

00:06:52.980 or when that propaganda gets distributed

00:06:54.960 because it's very difficult not to fall prey to it.

00:06:58.940 Now, the counter evidence is Poland, 0.99

00:07:03.440 which seems to be doing quite well.

00:07:06.040 The economists just said that Poland will be richer

00:07:08.220 than the UK within 10 years.

00:07:10.180 So that's quite the turnaround.

00:07:12.120 I've been to Hungary a number of times

00:07:13.960 and I've been to worse places than Hungary. 0.61

00:07:17.760 Sweden tilted pretty hard in the Conservative direction

00:07:21.140 and Italy's Prime Minister doesn't seem to be

00:07:24.960 the catastrophe that all the progressives predicted.

00:07:28.280 And then there's Germany.

00:07:29.460 And so I'm very sceptical of these far right claims,

00:07:33.620 but we should like grapple with that right away too.

00:07:37.360 So I would like you to tell us

00:07:39.060 how you see the political situation in Germany

00:07:41.940 and then also elaborate on why it seems necessary

00:07:47.380 for arguably centrist conservatives

00:07:50.540 to insist that they're not the same people

00:07:54.680 as the more conservative politicians in Europe.

00:07:59.660 Well, it's pretty much a necessity

00:08:01.180 to defame us, to stigmatize us.

00:08:03.480 The simple reason being is we talk common sense.

00:08:09.080 We want policies, we want politics

00:08:12.000 that actually represent the people again.

00:08:15.860 Where, I mean, democracy, what's it all about?

00:08:17.980 It's government of the people,

00:08:19.240 for the people and by the people.

00:08:21.320 But we haven't been seeing that in quite some time.

00:08:24.160 For decades that's been going on,

00:08:26.000 the erosion of these democratic principles.

00:08:28.560 Nowadays, it seems more like the people

00:08:31.660 are being dictated to what their wants

00:08:35.100 and what their needs are going to have to be.

00:08:37.900 And these elected officials,

00:08:40.040 they no longer take into consideration

00:08:43.420 what is actually the best interest of the people

00:08:47.320 that they were elected by

00:08:48.660 and that they are paid by, by the way.

00:08:51.680 So now this new party comes along that was in 2013.

00:08:55.820 And pretty much when my party was founded,

00:09:00.220 we, the only thing we really did

00:09:02.240 was representing or claiming to change policies

00:09:08.320 in areas that the former conservative party in German,

00:09:12.320 the Christian Democrats stood for.

00:09:14.700 For as long as I can remember,

00:09:17.520 I used to vote for the Christian Democrats.

00:09:20.100 For ever since I became eligible to vote,

00:09:23.180 I voted for the Christian Democrats.

00:09:25.000 And the liberal party,

00:09:27.900 the free democratic liberals.

00:09:29.920 We have two votes in Germany,

00:09:31.460 so you can split them like that.

00:09:34.080 And it wasn't me that changed my political opinion.

00:09:39.200 It was these two parties that I voted for my entire life

00:09:42.380 that changed their basis, changed their policy.

00:09:47.300 So my waking up moment was in 2007.

00:09:51.540 And it was actually the subprime crisis in the United States

00:09:54.780 where people getting, you know,

00:09:57.260 kicked out of their houses left and right.

00:09:59.400 And I was like, what is going on there?

00:10:01.360 Why are so many people suddenly losing their homes and whatnot?

00:10:04.500 And that was my waking up moment.

00:10:07.440 And in 2005, I still voted for the Christian Democrats.

00:10:12.280 So yes, I did vote for Angela Merkel the first time she ran for chancellor.

00:10:16.540 But I no longer could vote for them in 2009 when the next elections came around.

00:10:21.140 So I voted in ballot.

00:10:23.700 And I really have to say this political homelessness that I felt,

00:10:28.160 I would have never thought that it would get to me to an extent that it actually did.

00:10:32.560 But not knowing who I felt represented by anymore,

00:10:36.720 not knowing who was sitting in parliament and doing what I would want them to do,

00:10:43.720 there was a horrible feeling, a really horrible feeling.

00:10:47.280 So I voted in ballot in 2009.

00:10:49.540 And then 2013, I was, you know, watching TV.

00:10:53.160 And there was some talk on TV about some new party being founded.

00:10:56.940 And they were critics of the EU.

00:10:59.820 They were critics of the Euro.

00:11:01.920 And I'm like, whoa, what is this?

00:11:04.760 And I'm like, you know, all ears and listened to it for a while,

00:11:08.440 turned off my TV and went on the internet, researched that party.

00:11:13.120 And I was so glad to have finally found a party again that I felt represented by,

00:11:20.280 that I decided, well, this time I'm not going to leave it up to anyone else to do the right thing here.

00:11:24.880 And I decided to become a member.

00:11:26.860 That very same night, filled out an application.

00:11:29.440 And I've been a member of that party from the very beginning, 2013.

00:11:34.600 And yeah, that's when it all started, right?

00:11:37.220 So first we were called EU haters, European haters.

00:11:42.880 We wanted to destroy Europe because we were critics of the currency that we had, the Euro.

00:11:49.400 So it pretty much started right in the beginning.

00:11:52.200 And they kind of were hoping that, you know, we were just short-term kind of phenomenon.

00:11:59.820 We would just go away like that.

00:12:02.040 But we didn't go away.

00:12:03.860 And then the next thing happened, the mass invasion of these immigrants, so-called immigrants, 1.00

00:12:10.380 asylum seekers, as they claim.

00:12:12.820 And now we were Islamophobes.

00:12:15.680 We were xenophobes.

00:12:16.200 Xenophobes.

00:12:17.020 So the labeling, you know, continued.

00:12:20.560 Yeah.

00:12:21.100 And now we are pretty much, I mean, we've been called every name in the book.

00:12:24.560 You name it.

00:12:25.340 There is nothing left to pretty much label us with.

00:12:29.000 But it's no longer working, really.

00:12:33.660 Because, I mean, if you apply a derogative label to just about anything and everything you disagree with,

00:12:42.360 it no longer matters.

00:12:44.680 And people are just sick and tired of, you know, being called all kinds of names.

00:12:50.100 Yeah, my sense is that the far-right epithet has lost a tremendous amount of its useful currency in the last two or three years.

00:13:01.020 Yes, it absolutely has.

00:13:02.000 It absolutely has.

00:13:03.060 And like I said, I mean, the number of people that have to call these names are getting larger and larger.

00:13:11.360 So with every controversial issue there is, you once again have another group of people of the population you need to stigmatize in such a way.

00:13:21.340 Well, you know, sooner or later, you're going to have a majority of the people of the population being slapped with that label.

00:13:29.200 Well, seriously, that's what you're going to do now?

00:13:33.120 So it's really no longer working.

00:13:35.720 And, I mean, they did whatever they could.

00:13:38.800 I mean, they tried, they really gave it their best shot to just, you know, make us disappear.

00:13:45.320 But it's not working.

00:13:46.700 Why is it not working?

00:13:48.080 Because everything we have been saying ever since 2013, we weren't making that stuff up.

00:13:54.440 We weren't fear-mongering.

00:13:57.060 We were simply seeing where we were headed.

00:14:01.540 And the people are now beginning to realize, whoa, they were right.

00:14:06.960 They said that.

00:14:07.980 That's what they said like 10 years ago.

00:14:10.160 And here we are.

00:14:11.480 So they're seeing all of this, the policies that have been implemented.

00:14:15.820 They're seeing it unfolding.

00:14:18.620 And the consequences of these policies that were set a long time ago, they're seeing it now in their everyday life.

00:14:26.360 And there is no denying it anymore.

00:14:28.760 You know, I mean, you can kind of play with numbers in some kind of a budget or, you know, in a balance sheet.

00:14:35.900 Like, you can hide certain things.

00:14:38.300 What you cannot hide is your lift reality.

00:14:42.180 And the lift reality in Germany, it really saddens me to say, but Germany is turning into a hellhole country.

00:14:52.860 We're no longer safe in our streets.

00:14:56.320 I mean, you know, just go back to 2015, New Year's Eve.

00:15:00.240 There was a mob of, like, what, a thousand men ganging up on women just, you know, being out there celebrating New Year's Eve, notably Cologne.

00:15:11.800 It was just dreadful what these women experienced, right?

00:15:16.260 We saw an echo of that in Paris two weeks ago at the music festival.

00:15:20.680 Yeah, I mean, these are occurrences.

00:15:22.400 It's no longer isolated incidents, what we're talking about here.

00:15:26.060 So that's been going on for quite some time.

00:15:28.560 What we're seeing in Germany now is you have, like, what, two brutal gang rapes every single day in Germany.

00:15:38.440 And when I'm saying brutal gang rapes, I mean, these women are not just raped. 0.99

00:15:46.600 They're brutally beaten within an inch of their life if they survive it at all, right?

00:15:52.840 Two of them every single day happening in Germany.

00:15:57.420 And that's not even talking about the rapes where there's only one perpetrator, right?

00:16:01.980 So, or these random knife attacks, every day, not only every day, on an hourly basis, we have those, like, 12, 13, 14, 15 random knife attacks.

00:16:15.180 Right, well, they were thinking about bringing in knife control in the UK for the same reasons.

00:16:20.400 They have.

00:16:20.700 Yeah, that's really something.

00:16:22.320 That's really quite something.

00:16:23.380 Yeah, well, watch them caring about that.

00:16:24.800 They don't.

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00:17:46.000 So, what they do do, though, is once we had the Christmas markets and everything, yeah, they were, you know, heavily patrolled.

00:17:57.220 Yeah, they took, like, the little knife that a grandma carried in her purse so she can cut up an apple or something.

00:18:03.640 Yeah, they were, you know, taken away from people like that.

00:18:06.720 But the real perpetrators, they wouldn't go near them.

00:18:09.600 And have they erected, like, barriers in Germany?

00:18:14.560 Because that's a terrible thing, you know?

00:18:16.280 I know.

00:18:16.680 That's a terrible thing to see.

00:18:18.300 When the state starts to erect barriers to protect people, you know that things are in dismal decline.

00:18:25.860 That's the funny thing about that.

00:18:27.360 I mean, what is the function of external borders?

00:18:31.360 So, the people that are inside can just go about their daily business and live in peace.

00:18:38.380 Once you start tearing down the external borders, what are you going to end up doing?

00:18:43.320 You're going to erect little small borders all over that supposedly secure area.

00:18:50.320 And that's what we're seeing.

00:18:51.480 So, it's like, you know, if a family father, he just decided to bring in, you know, just any old Joe Schmo into his house, you know, because he felt, you know, he needed to help these people for whatever reason.

00:19:05.640 And then he finds out his family is no longer safe in the house.

00:19:09.500 What would this father do?

00:19:11.220 We'll kick all of them out.

00:19:12.620 But what we're doing is we're locking up our family, you know, in the individual rooms so they are safe there.

00:19:20.980 Seriously?

00:19:21.900 This is so beyond reason and beyond any rational thinking. 0.55

00:19:26.980 It's actually ridiculous when you really think about it.

00:19:30.060 But that's what we're doing.

00:19:32.240 So, let's review a few things.

00:19:34.640 Will you describe to people the federal political structure in Germany so they have some sense?

00:19:41.640 Let's outline the main parties and then maybe talk to us a bit about why these, what the fundamental issues are.

00:19:50.060 You raised problems with the EU, problems with the euro and immigration.

00:19:55.020 Those are the three things that we didn't touch on, de-industrialization or the catastrophic consequences of net zero, which we should also touch on.

00:20:03.220 But lay out the political landscape so that people understand the German political scene more particularly.

00:20:09.660 I'd like to, for you, also to tell people what you did before you got involved in politics in 2013.

00:20:18.560 2013.

00:20:19.780 And then let's address the main issues that we discussed as well.

00:20:24.740 So, we'll start with the German political landscape.

00:20:27.420 Okay.

00:20:27.940 So, there's, I think there's like seven parties represented in the national parliament in the Bundestag right now.

00:20:33.680 So, yeah, let's start with the Christian Democrats.

00:20:38.220 The Christian Democrats are the former conservative party.

00:20:43.140 Angela Merkel, she pretty much turned the Christian Democrats into this just woke kind of nonsense party, you know, just adhering to just about everything. 0.84

00:20:57.500 You know, she wanted to be everybody's darling.

00:20:59.820 Right, right, right.

00:21:00.480 And, you know, but if you're everybody's darling, you're everybody's debt.

00:21:04.120 Yeah, well, the conservatives, they take their base for granted.

00:21:07.780 Exactly.

00:21:08.060 And then they try to occupy the center, right?

00:21:10.360 Exactly.

00:21:10.940 And so, they're always pulled to the progressive side.

00:21:13.940 Exactly, right.

00:21:14.420 So, we have the Christian Democrats.

00:21:17.100 Then we have the social Democrats.

00:21:18.940 They're, they used to be the representation of the working class, right?

00:21:26.280 The labor party.

00:21:26.820 But they completely abandoned that base, too.

00:21:29.220 Right.

00:21:29.660 For all kinds of transgender issues and what have you not.

00:21:33.720 Yeah, well, economic alienation, let's say, characterized, that characterized the working class has been replaced by postmodern alienation.

00:21:43.740 Exactly.

00:21:43.760 So, it's an absolute multiplication of oppressed status.

00:21:47.600 Yeah, exactly.

00:21:48.220 And the people who seem to suffer the most from that in terms of lacking representation are most perversely the working class people that some labor parties actually did work to represent not so long ago.

00:22:04.580 Exactly.

00:22:04.640 Okay, so the social Democrats have gone seriously postmodern and woke.

00:22:08.340 Exactly.

00:22:08.920 Okay.

00:22:09.200 Then we have the free democratic liberals is what they were called.

00:22:14.640 They were libertarian.

00:22:16.340 They used to be, but they're just the same thing now, pretty much as the Christian Democrats. 0.67

00:22:21.520 So, the FDP is what their short name is.

00:22:27.020 They have been in coalition with the Christian Democrats, with the social Democrats, whatever.

00:22:31.400 So, in like the 70s, 80s, there really only were these three parties.

00:22:36.440 So, they were here and then they were there.

00:22:39.640 So, they were kind of shifting.

00:22:42.060 Then the 80s came about and this new party was found, the Greens.

00:22:45.720 So, the Greens came along.

00:22:46.980 And, you know, what they did in the beginning, you know, we need to protect our environment.

00:22:53.620 It really made sense.

00:22:56.060 I mean, I never voted for the Greens because I just kind of, even back then, as young as I was, I could see, you know, where they're going.

00:23:04.140 This ultimately and inevitably will lead into communism because there is no other way you can cut down on industry, you know, without having to redistribute whatever kind of wealth is left, right?

00:23:18.380 So, there were the Greens.

00:23:21.160 But, granted, you know, what they stood for in the beginning as they came about, there was some merit to it.

00:23:28.200 And there was good reasons for it, right?

00:23:32.760 So, and then the next thing, then the wall came down and maybe we want to touch on that a little later.

00:23:38.300 The wall came down and then the next party, the Fifth Party, came along.

00:23:43.600 There was pretty much the ones, there was the SED, the Socialist Uni Party of Germany.

00:23:53.380 They just renamed themselves.

00:23:55.880 So, that was the leftover communists?

00:23:58.200 Exactly.

00:23:58.880 That's exactly what they were.

00:24:00.480 Just took a different name.

00:24:02.560 So, we now had five.

00:24:03.800 And they were predominantly elected in the, ironically enough, in the former GR states.

00:24:10.180 Right, in Eastern Germany.

00:24:11.320 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:13.040 You'd think people would have learned their lesson, but.

00:24:15.640 Exactly.

00:24:16.380 Yeah, you would have thought so, but unfortunately not.

00:24:18.980 So, now we had these five parties and for the most part, that was just about it, right?

00:24:25.100 So, and then the, but the former Communist Party, they split.

00:24:30.520 So, now we had seven parties and then my party.

00:24:33.840 So, it's eight parties now.

00:24:35.060 So, then my party came along in 2013.

00:24:37.620 But like I said, it was really a necessity, out of necessity, because all of the other parties that back in the days each had a different basis.

00:24:47.960 Because they represent it, they all kind of represent the same kind of thing.

00:24:55.200 They only vary in nuances from, you know, what their policies are, what they advocate for.

00:25:00.540 So, they pretty much have become a unity party.

00:25:05.360 I think that's the term, what do you call it?

00:25:08.540 So, and now it's pretty much the unity party and it's us.

00:25:12.340 So, once again, we're back to a two-party system.

00:25:16.120 Right.

00:25:16.620 You could call it that, yes.

00:25:18.100 So, tell me about the rise in fortune and misfortune of the AFD.

00:25:24.540 What does AFD stand for?

00:25:26.080 Tell everyone that first.

00:25:26.700 Alternative for Germany.

00:25:28.640 And ironically, Angela Merkel, believe it or not, she was pretty much the one that inspired our name.

00:25:37.900 Because when the euro crisis happened, the debt crisis, particularly with Greece, and, you know, we send all these funds down to Greece to help them.

00:25:50.620 And maybe it's worth noting, none of these billions and billions of dollars that were sent down to Greece, because we're supposed to help the Greek people, right?

00:26:04.560 So, once again, you know, you have to be, have to act in solidarity.

00:26:09.380 Not a single cent ever reached a single Greek citizen on the street.

00:26:19.040 These billions and billions of dollars we sent down there actually were used to pay off the debt with banks.

00:26:28.280 Whether it's, the Commerzbank was pretty, pretty, so it was pretty much German banks that were German-French banks, right?

00:26:36.700 The Greek government went into debt, and now they couldn't pay it anymore, but the banks insisted, hey, look, we want our money back, right?

00:26:44.300 You better make it happen.

00:26:45.940 So, then the peoples of all the other European countries, they all chipped in.

00:26:51.020 Germany, of course, the most heavy, the heaviest part of this.

00:26:55.200 But it was, directly went back to the banks to pay off the debt.

00:26:59.360 Do you think there was any utility in doing that?

00:27:01.860 Did it stabilize the banking system?

00:27:03.800 Did it?

00:27:04.060 No, it did not.

00:27:05.200 No, it did not.

00:27:06.220 The lesson, or what the banks got from that is, look, we can just fool around here.

00:27:12.840 You know, we can lose trillions.

00:27:15.160 It doesn't matter.

00:27:16.620 The taxpayers of all of these countries, they're going to step in and save us.

00:27:21.060 So, I mean, if you run your business into the ground, you should be the one bearing the consequences for that.

00:27:26.460 But since they were considered vital to the economy, you know.

00:27:31.980 Right, privatize the gains and socialize the risk.

00:27:35.360 That's exactly what it was.

00:27:37.020 Exactly.

00:27:38.020 So, anyway, we were talking about, you know, Greece.

00:27:41.140 And so, and Angela Merkel said back then that saving the euro, it was without any alternative.

00:27:50.180 There was no alternative for that.

00:27:52.840 And that's what inspired our name.

00:27:54.380 And that's why we were called, called ourselves alternative for Germany.

00:27:59.820 Because you should never get yourself in a situation as a government to claim something.

00:28:08.020 There is no alternative, right?

00:28:10.320 You back yourself into a corner.

00:28:13.040 Right, with no bargaining position.

00:28:14.340 Exactly, yeah.

00:28:15.300 So, let's talk about the EU a little bit.

00:28:18.740 I mean, I remember when there were great hopes for the European Union.

00:28:24.220 And so, let me lay out some of those.

00:28:26.700 The hope was, it's kind of analogous in a way to the hope that if we brought China into the capitalist economic system,

00:28:37.480 that that would produce a liberalization in political ideology in China, a freeing.

00:28:46.340 And you can understand that that was a plausible hope.

00:28:51.340 And it's certainly the case that the Chinese economy has grown dramatically.

00:28:55.880 And the cost of certain consumer goods have plummeted.

00:28:59.000 The working class has paid a price for that. 0.99

00:29:01.520 And absolute privation in many ways has been drastically limited in China.

00:29:06.760 So, it wasn't a complete failure.

00:29:08.200 But the idea that it would liberalize China has turned out to be, like, that just didn't happen even a little bit.

00:29:15.660 So, when the EU was formed, it was a thrill, I suppose, to some degree,

00:29:21.840 that it became radically easy to move between countries without the inconvenience of passports and border guards and so forth.

00:29:32.600 And the hope, as well, would be that the toxic elements of nationalism, such as they were,

00:29:40.600 which had seemed to tear Europe apart multiple times, would be radically ameliorated.

00:29:45.800 And that Europe could unite.

00:29:47.980 That would raise the poorer countries out of their penury and produce an economy, I suppose, 0.99

00:29:54.340 that would be equivalent in some ways to the United States.

00:29:58.180 That was the hope.

00:30:00.140 And the consequence was, and this is why the UK left,

00:30:06.240 the consequence was really the elimination of intermediary political structures

00:30:12.500 and the creation of a superorganism in Brussels.

00:30:16.960 I've been to Brussels, to the home of the EU. 0.96

00:30:20.360 The building that that enterprise is housed in is a monstrosity of cataclysmic foolishness. 0.94

00:30:29.300 It's like the world's biggest and ugliest badly designed airport. 0.96

00:30:35.400 Tiny offices.

00:30:36.860 I've got a comical story for you.

00:30:38.560 I was there three years ago, maybe, speaking to another far-right politician from Eastern Europe.

00:30:47.380 Romania, I think.

00:30:50.160 And he had this tiny little office.

00:30:52.460 And while I was there, the environmental police came into his office and adjusted his thermostat, right,

00:30:59.500 so that he couldn't keep it cool fundamentally because of the green requirements.

00:31:03.900 And there wasn't a damn thing he could do about it.

00:31:06.160 And, you know, I've talked to Bjorn Lomberg about thermostat adjustments

00:31:11.760 and the fact that they're deadly, essentially, especially to elderly people, especially in the winter.

00:31:19.880 But I thought it was so telling that we had gone to this staggeringly hideous monstrosity of a building.

00:31:25.980 It was just a rat's maze inside.

00:31:27.980 There was no, I don't know how you would ever orient yourself inside that building.

00:31:31.760 It's just, it's gargantuan.

00:31:34.320 And then to speak with this elected official who was powerless.

00:31:39.960 Now, he wasn't happy about this, by the way.

00:31:42.140 But who was powerless to adjust his own thermostat, I thought, yeah, that's pretty much exactly it.

00:31:49.280 So, you've got a radically centralized Europe where the distance between the citizens and the government grew to, like, slave tyrant proportions.

00:32:03.040 And so, a hyper-elite with disenfranchised people, that's what it looks like to me.

00:32:09.860 And so, I don't know, maybe we should start by making a case for the European Union.

00:32:14.280 I mean, if you had to play devil's advocate, and you looked at what's happened in Europe over the last 20 years, do you think there's been advantages to the European project?

00:32:24.320 I mean, the UK certainly decided no, and decided to go their own way, which I think all things considered was a good idea.

00:32:30.720 And then they went and elected a Labour government.

00:32:32.860 So, you know, that's a catastrophe.

00:32:35.120 But tell me what you think, you know, you intimated your displeasure with the European Union and the Euro.

00:32:42.260 So, why don't you lay out why and give the devil his due, too.

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00:33:25.240 Well, when it started out, it was a really good idea, actually.

00:33:30.180 And how did it start out?

00:33:31.580 Well, it started out that the European countries decided to form a trade union, kind of, you know.

00:33:38.280 So, there was called the European Economic Union.

00:33:43.980 And that was pretty much it.

00:33:46.240 They were just, you know, seeing how can we support each other and, you know, we'll get rid of tariffs and everything.

00:33:52.840 To kind of liberalize, you know, how we trade among each other.

00:33:57.960 But that was it.

00:33:58.640 That was the whole purpose of, you know, getting together, at least so we were told.

00:34:05.560 I'm pretty convinced at this point it was the idea all along to gradually upgrade this whole monstrum, if you said it correctly,

00:34:15.000 into this supranational kind of government, pretty much.

00:34:20.280 So, but that was legitimate back then.

00:34:24.380 And it worked, you know, it was a good idea.

00:34:27.960 But like I said, then they started evolving from there, you know.

00:34:32.540 And they, sovereign rights were relinquished.

00:34:37.940 In the beginning, it was just, you know, things that kind of made sense.

00:34:42.740 Let's invest in a common kind of external border protection.

00:34:47.620 That type of thing, right?

00:34:49.180 But now we are at a point where the peoples of Europe are no longer sovereign.

00:34:56.460 They are no longer deciding their own political fate.

00:35:00.720 And if they try to do so, as we have seen in Romania just recently, they just go ahead and annul an election.

00:35:09.000 And to this day, they have not brought up any substantial evidence for their claim that Kalin Ceausescu was apparently allegedly financed somehow by Russia or whatever.

00:35:24.380 Just like Trump.

00:35:24.940 I mean, exactly.

00:35:26.320 So, they just claimed that that was enough to just annul the election.

00:35:30.200 And not only that, but bar him from running again.

00:35:32.940 And he would have absolutely won the elections.

00:35:37.260 So, they barred him.

00:35:39.280 They tried similar shenanigans, let's say, with Marine Le Pen.

00:35:43.320 Oh, of course.

00:35:44.140 Absolutely.

00:35:45.020 Another far right.

00:35:45.960 But they're not even hiding anymore, right?

00:35:47.920 They're not even hiding it anymore.

00:35:49.180 So, but, you know, the question really is, I mean, I'm speaking about, you know, how democratic principles are being abolished pretty much across the board throughout every single Western democracy.

00:36:04.420 And, yeah, it's a power grab.

00:36:08.920 And the question, or it begs the question, and especially people that are more left-leaning always ask me this, but why would the sovereign government of a country, let's say Germany, voluntarily relinquish their power to this supranational organization called EU?

00:36:28.280 Well, it's very simple.

00:36:29.800 So, the agenda they are trying to implement, all of the policies they're trying to implement, they wouldn't get away with that in a democracy.

00:36:42.060 They wouldn't get away with that in terms of if the people saw, wait a minute, that government just is trying to do this, then we will no longer elect them.

00:36:51.180 But what if they had a way of blaming someone else for that?

00:36:55.820 And that's exactly how this play is working out here.

00:36:58.560 Which are you speaking of specifically?

00:36:59.860 For example, the climate change policy.

00:37:01.920 The net zero policy.

00:37:03.260 Exactly.

00:37:03.660 The whole transgender ideology. 0.92

00:37:06.120 I mean, these are all things that they want to implement.

00:37:10.360 So, but they wouldn't no longer get, they wouldn't get reelected if they advocated for these things.

00:37:17.260 But now, having the EU institutions, it's pretty much providing them a plausible deniability.

00:37:23.720 Now, the elected government in Berlin can tell the Germans, well, we wouldn't have done that to you.

00:37:31.900 We would not have passed this.

00:37:33.560 But there's nothing we can do.

00:37:34.980 It's coming from Berlin, from Brussels.

00:37:37.520 Right, and when national parties, I've seen this in the Netherlands, when national parties try to move in a direction that the Brussels elite do not approve of, then often environmental groups, the Greens in particular, take them to court and frequently win, right?

00:37:56.680 And so, the activist types have got an appeal to a centralized authority that can supersede national sovereignty and that frequently does.

00:38:06.560 Exactly.

00:38:07.260 Right.

00:38:07.640 Exactly.

00:38:08.040 You know, and I saw the, I think it was Keir Starmer, if I remember correctly, who made some denigrating comments about Westminster not so long ago, it's probably a few years, pointing out that the real seat of power and the real decision-making authority rests with these supranational organizations like the WEF and the EU.

00:38:30.000 And so, it also seems to me to be the case that politicians whose ambition knows no bounds have their eye on the ultimate prize.

00:38:40.700 And if that means sacrificing local or national interests, then so be it.

00:38:45.980 I have a sneaking suspicion, we'll see how this plays out, that that's what's going to happen to Canada, because Carney has turned hard in the direction of Europe.

00:38:54.120 Now, you know, he's done that under some provocation from Donald Trump, who I think miscalculated greatly when he agitated for Canada to become the 51st state in the middle of our last election, right?

00:39:07.320 And I think he'll regret that, because we'll see.

00:39:10.640 Carney seems to have changed his stripes, which is something I don't understand at all.

00:39:14.340 But I think if he's still the same man that he was, Trump managed to get a pretty canny enemy instantiated on the northern border.

00:39:25.820 And I think Carney is positioning himself as the leader of the opposition.

00:39:30.020 He's trying to do that, the leader of the opposition to Trump across the world.

00:39:34.860 So, there is this desire, especially by the status types, to serve the highest possible master.

00:39:43.420 And that has meant the WEF and the EU.

00:39:48.040 And so, yeah.

00:39:49.560 You know, in Canada, the Liberals have decided, I think it's 2035, that we'll no longer be able to have internal combustion vehicles in Canada.

00:39:58.040 You know how insane that is?

00:39:59.280 Yeah, I know.

00:39:59.940 I know, it's totally insane.

00:40:01.420 Yeah, and what's the legislation in Germany, is it?

00:40:03.960 Oh, like the EU is pushing forward with that.

00:40:08.700 That's just, I mean, we're going to be seeing that.

00:40:11.900 But this is like the overall issue.

00:40:14.380 And we are seeing that, like I said, in every single Western democracy.

00:40:18.700 And it became abundantly clear during this so-called COVID pandemic, right?

00:40:25.160 We've seen erosion of democracy, freedom, democracy, and rule of law across the board in all the Western democracies.

00:40:34.900 And the question really is, why did they have to push that in the Western democracies to that extent that they did?

00:40:44.280 Well, they didn't need to do that in China.

00:40:47.160 China already was a totalitarian regime.

00:40:49.980 They didn't need to do that in North Korea, but they had to do it in the Western democracies.

00:40:55.080 Because we do have this democracy, we do have freedom, we have constitutions.

00:41:00.200 And that had to be, yeah, kind of, how shall I word this, watered down in a sense.

00:41:07.860 You know, fundamental rights have now become privileges that the government can grant or withhold, depending on how you behave, right?

00:41:16.320 Well, if you lose your natural rights philosophy, right, to meet in the image of God, let's say.

00:41:21.860 We are seeing that, like I said, in every single Western democracies.

00:41:25.680 In Europe, however, they did face a rather difficult situation in terms of, and you mentioned that already, removing the democratic processes further and further away from the people to get it, you know, so the people no longer know who's even responsible for what decision.

00:41:47.500 And most of all, who can they hold accountable for what decision?

00:41:52.840 So, this is happening.

00:41:54.140 In Europe, however, you know, just looking at this rather small continent, and I mean, you know, the entire world envies us for our small continent with all these different cultures, languages, traditions, history, right?

00:42:12.860 Productivity, peace, trust.

00:42:14.840 Yeah, so, but you would have never been able to convince any single European people to relinquish their sovereignty, their traditions, to invest it in some kind of, let's call it a one world government or whatever you want to call it.

00:42:31.460 Would have never happened, would have never been possible.

00:42:34.680 But hey, let's tell the people, look, we've been, you know, having wars for centuries, and we need to go get away with that.

00:42:43.580 So, we, you know, living peacefully, let's try to move together closer, you know.

00:42:50.000 So, how about we have this EU commission installed in Brussels, and, you know, we have a parliament, so it's democracy and all of that.

00:42:59.440 And so, people were told this lie that, because we are obviously incapable of living peacefully together, unless we have some kind of a king.

00:43:12.240 Exactly, sort of, right?

00:43:14.100 So, and that's how the people were sold this lie.

00:43:17.560 And now what we're seeing is they're moving closer and closer together.

00:43:23.900 All the more rights competencies that are getting transferred to Brussels.

00:43:29.680 And speaking of the EU commission, what is the EU commission?

00:43:35.060 It's not elected.

00:43:36.860 It's appointed, pretty much.

00:43:38.760 So, and whenever a new country joins EU, they get to appoint a commissioner for that post, right?

00:43:46.280 So, it's not based on competencies.

00:43:48.460 What areas do we have that we need to fill with someone to be responsible for it?

00:43:53.380 No, they make it up as they go along.

00:43:55.160 That's pretty much what they're doing.

00:43:56.380 The EU commission is not elected.

00:43:59.660 The president is elected in parliament, but it's more like she is selling whatever she has, you know. 0.72

00:44:07.520 That's how she got the votes. 1.00

00:44:08.860 Ursula von der Leyen, notably, got the votes from the Greens, because she did commit to the Green Deal,

00:44:14.860 which is now de-industrializing, in particular in Germany, where this is going on.

00:44:20.860 So, the EU commission is not democratically elected.

00:44:24.140 You know, the de-industrialization of Germany seems like a market, what moved towards insanity. 0.91

00:44:32.860 Oh, yeah.

00:44:32.900 Have this remarkable situation where China and India are industrializing at a rate that leaves Europe

00:44:42.420 and its negligible effect on the environment in the dust, and increasingly so, and at an ever-accelerating rate.

00:44:51.480 All of the industry that's leaving Europe and the West in general is localizing in China and in India.

00:45:00.800 China's building coal-fired plants at a rate that's just staggering.

00:45:04.500 Yeah.

00:45:04.700 And we all breathe the same atmosphere. 0.90

00:45:07.660 The whole bloody climate change narrative is a scam and a lie. 0.90

00:45:12.900 It is a scam.

00:45:13.500 And, you know, it's a remarkable and destructive thing to see.

00:45:21.560 So, there's two things happening, maybe, if you think about this, partly sociologically and partly psychologically.

00:45:29.440 It's the pernicious combination of two trends.

00:45:33.000 I know that, in principle, the EU was established on the basis of stated respect for the principle of subsidiarity,

00:45:43.000 which is a principle I only discovered probably about five years ago that has been the time-tested alternative to tyrant and slaves.

00:45:51.980 And the idea is a graduated hierarchy of responsibility from the individual upward with as much power pushed down to the lowest possible level as can be managed.

00:46:05.320 So, that the centralized authority has a very delimited scope of responsibility and authority.

00:46:11.620 Okay.

00:46:11.840 So, now you fragment that.

00:46:13.460 And so, there's way too much power at the top and not nearly enough authority or responsibility at the bottom,

00:46:19.920 which is also very convenient for people who don't want to take responsibility.

00:46:24.740 And then, as you said, that abstracts the political process so completely that it's hard to keep the elected officials, let's say, responsible for their actions.

00:46:37.260 And so, that allows the globalist ideological types to utilize their power mongering at the highest level of enterprise.

00:46:45.400 And so, then that brings us to the second issue.

00:46:47.660 You know, you have to ask yourself how a policy as reprehensible and vacuous as the climate change narrative,

00:46:58.060 you know, which the pathology of which I think was most amply demonstrated by the fact that it was once global warming,

00:47:04.940 and then it become climate change overnight, which is really quite something.

00:47:09.700 It's not warming up.

00:47:10.900 It's increased variability.

00:47:12.480 It's like, that's actually very different.

00:47:14.300 And the fact that you're telling the same story with a completely different premise is extremely telling.

00:47:20.180 And so, then you might ask why.

00:47:22.260 And I think it's the age-old story of the Pharisees is that these meta-narratives, environmentalism in particular,

00:47:31.280 but also concern for income distribution, there are ways of allowing people to claim a admirable reputation and morality while doing absolutely nothing except power mongering on the basis of that claim while doing absolutely nothing to deserve it.

00:47:56.060 So, you get that combination of centralized control and moral hypocrisy, that's an absolutely deadly combination.

00:48:04.720 But they kind of have to do with the moralization, you know.

00:48:08.500 So, I mean, how else would they be able to tax people into oblivion?

00:48:14.420 And the question really is, how is taxing people into poverty going to save our planet?

00:48:24.100 It's hubris to even think that we could save the planet, right?

00:48:28.820 Especially, we're doing that in Germany, I'll have you know.

00:48:32.380 We shut down all of our nuclear power plants.

00:48:34.700 Well, you even blew some of the Mape.

00:48:36.480 Oh, yeah, of course.

00:48:37.180 Which is really something. 0.92

00:48:38.460 Well, I mean, you know, just to think about how ridiculous that is.

00:48:41.980 So, in Germany, we had the most, the highest standards as far as nuclear power plants were concerned, right?

00:48:51.200 They were the safest.

00:48:52.440 And the best engineering.

00:48:53.360 Of course, we had all of that.

00:48:55.980 So, we shut him down because of a catastrophe that happened at the other end of the world.

00:49:05.120 So, and this hurricane only, no, it wasn't a hurricane.

00:49:09.400 It was a, what's the word?

00:49:10.860 Earthquake and a flood.

00:49:11.600 Yeah.

00:49:12.640 Tsunami.

00:49:13.420 That's the word we're looking for.

00:49:14.900 So, it destroyed one power plant in Japan.

00:49:18.320 But this very same tsunami that never reached Germany destroyed all of the power plants in Germany.

00:49:24.820 And what did we do?

00:49:25.760 So, we shut them all down.

00:49:26.940 Angela Merkel, once again, you know, wanting to, you know, appease just about everyone.

00:49:32.140 She declared the moratorium back then.

00:49:34.560 So, they were all shut down immediately.

00:49:36.640 And then they were taken out of commission, you know, gradually.

00:49:39.820 Despite the Greens' emphasis on carbon dioxide being the world's most toxic poison.

00:49:44.260 So, we shut them all down and instead we, you know, putting these solar panels on prime farmland, by the way, erecting these windmills.

00:49:56.540 I mean, Germany, you know, we have beautiful old forests.

00:50:00.700 They're hundreds and hundreds of years old.

00:50:02.980 We're just tearing them down to erect these ridiculous windmills. 0.99

00:50:06.280 Germany isn't one of the world's sunniest countries.

00:50:11.320 And it's also notorious for, what do you call those, wind droughts?

00:50:15.320 Yeah.

00:50:15.920 There is no wind at all.

00:50:18.080 And see, that's the funny thing.

00:50:20.340 All of Europe pretty much is in the same kind of condition as far as winds and that type of stuff is concerned.

00:50:27.500 So, it's not like if the wind in Germany isn't blowing, well, then it might be blowing in Spain.

00:50:34.740 So, they can't, no, then the wind is not blowing anywhere all over Europe. 0.91

00:50:39.400 So, it's totally ridiculous.

00:50:41.520 So, we're tearing down our nuclear power plants, highest standard ever.

00:50:45.420 And, but we are buying now the nuclear power from France or Poland or, you know, the Eastern European countries because they're building nuclear power plants.

00:50:58.500 So, I mean, anyone with two brain cells left intact really has to see how this is the biggest scam ever.

00:51:08.140 Well, and what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that let's, you know, you gave the Greens a certain amount of credit earlier in our discussion.

00:51:18.760 Very limited credit.

00:51:19.820 Right, right.

00:51:20.400 But you said that when the movement started that there was some reason to be, to make environmental concerns part of the conversation and that that was reasonable.

00:51:28.860 But let's say that the green aim was to produce a decrease, at minimum a decrease in pollution, even if it was, even if there was some additional economic cost associated with that.

00:51:44.940 The idea being better to pay in the short term than the long term climate catastrophe.

00:51:49.860 And so, it's actually an investment.

00:51:51.380 You know the rationale.

00:51:52.180 And that would be fine if the policies that the green income redistributors, because those seem to go together, if the policies they insisted upon actually produced the outcome they themselves desired.

00:52:06.800 But my understanding in Germany is that now electricity there, like it is in the UK, is prohibitively expensive, which is a complete catastrophe with regards to competitiveness.

00:52:18.660 And has resulted in, it's part of the cause of the deindustrialization that you described.

00:52:25.900 But worse than that, and in particular because Germany shut down its nuclear plants, which were carbon dioxide free, Germany has had to rely on coal burning plants to fill the gap left by the unreliable solar and wind energy.

00:52:44.160 And many of the coal burning plants burn lignite, which is the most polluting form of coal.

00:52:51.640 It's the cheapest, but also the most polluting.

00:52:54.240 And so, Germany now has electricity that's about five times higher than it should be in terms of cost, which is really, really hard on poor people.

00:53:02.400 And they pollute more per unit of electricity than they did before.

00:53:07.040 So, it's a failure, even by the standards of the people who pushed the legislation to begin with.

00:53:14.100 Yes.

00:53:14.460 And all to, what?

00:53:16.860 All to bolster the proclamations of the green income redistributors that they're moral agents working in the service of the planet and the poor.

00:53:27.400 Which they're clearly, and they're clearly not, in fact, quite the opposite.

00:53:32.120 There's been some psychological studies recently on the psychological predictors of support for income redistribution.

00:53:42.420 So, George Orwell said decades ago that when he was speaking of middle class socialists, so the virtue signaling types, because he could never understand their motivations, or elite socialists.

00:53:54.460 That they didn't like the poor, they just hated the rich.

00:53:58.840 Well, so there's been some psychological studies recently.

00:54:01.820 I know of three papers that measured people's attitude towards fairness as a motivation, because that's usually the motivation, right, for income redistribution.

00:54:11.760 It's only fair.

00:54:13.540 Compassion and malicious envy.

00:54:17.040 Yeah.

00:54:17.600 Right.

00:54:18.220 Fairness didn't predict support for income redistribution at all.

00:54:22.520 Zero.

00:54:23.040 So, compassion predicted a little bit, but the biggest predictor was malicious envy, right?

00:54:28.180 So, it really is a destructive, it's a destructive ideology masquerading as compassion and worship of nature.

00:54:36.420 Right, exactly.

00:54:37.720 I mean, you know, whenever, especially young people, you know, they, God bless their hearts, they always think, you know, no, the communists or the socialists, they're caring.

00:54:48.660 Yeah.

00:54:48.900 They're so caring for the poor people, they want to lift them out of poverty.

00:54:53.180 Yeah, right.

00:54:53.640 And, you know, but it's really not true.

00:54:57.980 What the communists or socialists actually do is they don't increase anyone's wealth.

00:55:04.780 They do not.

00:55:05.660 They do not contribute so that the overall income will actually increase.

00:55:11.680 What they're doing is pretty much just, how shall I put this, just to manage the poorness more fairly.

00:55:23.680 That's all they're doing, right?

00:55:26.100 More, they manage it more fairly temporarily.

00:55:29.280 Exactly.

00:55:30.140 Or they're trying to do that.

00:55:32.240 But they're not productive.

00:55:33.940 It never increases productivity.

00:55:35.880 It never increases anything.

00:55:37.680 Why?

00:55:38.020 Because if you are trying to establish a totally equal society, where is the ambition that is the actual driver of mankind to better themselves, to have a better life for their children?

00:55:51.460 They will be willing to do a lot and work a lot if, in the end, it means I myself will have a better life and I will have a better life or will provide a better life for my children.

00:56:04.320 But if that is taken away because you are now being looked upon in like, oh, you've got too much.

00:56:11.500 You own two books.

00:56:12.760 You're only allowed one book.

00:56:14.180 So I have to take that one book away from you.

00:56:16.260 Success is theft.

00:56:17.940 Exactly.

00:56:18.380 Yeah, that's the pathway to rapid poverty. 0.87

00:56:21.520 What does it lead to?

00:56:22.680 It takes away the drive to contribute, to better yourself, right?

00:56:29.160 So people just, why should I work?

00:56:31.660 That drive to better yourself is also not merely competitive and comparative advantage.

00:56:38.940 It's predicated on the idea, and Western societies were unbelievably good at this, that if you produce it, then you get to keep it.

00:56:48.080 Exactly.

00:56:48.780 Right.

00:56:49.300 Because, and more than that, if you produce it, you get to keep it.

00:56:53.840 And other people don't get to kill you to take it.

00:56:56.720 Exactly.

00:56:57.340 You know, there's a mystery.

00:56:58.580 There's an anthropological mystery.

00:57:01.120 Human beings have been around in the genetic form that we have now for about 350,000 years.

00:57:07.900 And nothing really seemed to get going until after the last ice age.

00:57:11.720 So you've got to ask yourself what those people were doing.

00:57:15.140 Now, there weren't as many of them, and that makes a difference.

00:57:17.340 But there are theories that propose that human beings spent much of that 350,000 year period engaged in viciously murderous intertribal warfare and theft from anyone who had anything that everyone didn't have at the same time.

00:57:42.380 The thing about, like, if you own something, you produce something, you own it, that means you get to keep it and that other people can't take it.

00:57:50.220 So the whole idea of ownership, which is your ability to store what you've produced, is predicated on acceptance of inequality.

00:58:00.540 If you own something, I don't get to have it.

00:58:03.100 So the whole idea of ownership is acceptance of inequality.

00:58:07.940 You know, and it's a weird thing, too, and I've really only figured this out in recent years, is that a certain amount of inequality is the precondition to raise all boats.

00:58:17.240 Right?

00:58:17.460 Okay.

00:58:17.700 And here's why.

00:58:18.860 When something new comes along, it's scarce and it's hyper expensive at first.

00:58:26.600 And so what you need is, you need pools of, you need large pools of wealth so that some people can afford the new thing.

00:58:38.100 Now, they get it first.

00:58:39.700 And you might say that's unfair.

00:58:41.420 But the thing is, is if they get it, then the cost comes down.

00:58:46.360 And then the next strata of wealthy people can afford it.

00:58:49.720 Yes.

00:58:49.960 And then the cost comes down.

00:58:51.180 And then if you do that for five years, then everyone has a flat screen TV, right?

00:58:57.080 And so the rich guy up the street got one in 2015, but you got to get one in, you got to have one in 2020.

00:59:05.040 It's like, who cares?

00:59:06.320 Exactly.

00:59:06.380 If you can't tolerate that much inequality, well, then you'll end up with nothing.

00:59:10.440 Well, if the communists have their way, no one gets to have the flat screen TV.

00:59:14.580 Yeah.

00:59:14.600 Well, and that is, that's always how it turned out, right?

00:59:17.040 Exactly.

00:59:18.040 Exactly.

00:59:18.400 The only way of producing equality was to equalize everything at zero.

00:59:24.040 Right.

00:59:24.400 Okay.

00:59:24.660 So let's, let's talk about the AFD and its electoral popularity and its success and the situation politically in Germany presently.

00:59:35.240 So you said seven or eight, eight political parties now.

00:59:39.180 Eight political parties.

00:59:40.140 If I counted correctly.

00:59:41.180 Yeah.

00:59:41.460 Okay.

00:59:41.820 So it's right.

00:59:43.040 Okay.

00:59:43.300 And so, and three of those are major parties, but not including the AFD.

00:59:48.140 Uh, no, well, there is two, two of those are major parties.

00:59:51.520 Okay.

00:59:51.980 And that's the Christian Democrats. 0.83

00:59:53.480 And they're not major anymore though, by the way, because there are so many parties now.

00:59:57.460 Well, if you think back in like the 70s, 80s, um, it was either the Christian Democrats were, you know, 50% and then social Democrats weren't and then it flipped.

01:00:08.600 Right.

01:00:09.080 So they were like, you know, close to 50%.

01:00:11.400 Christian Democrats, they, they actually got the majority a couple of times, but that they were far from that.

01:00:19.320 I mean, the Christian Democrats in the last election, which took place in February of this year, they came in at 27%.

01:00:25.700 Right.

01:00:25.980 And they're considering that a huge success.

01:00:28.780 Right.

01:00:29.080 Right.

01:00:29.360 And where, where, what's the standing of the AFD?

01:00:32.560 Uh, we came in at 20% something.

01:00:35.260 So, but it was a psychological threshold that we, you know, went above the 20.

01:00:40.280 Then we were polling immediately after the election, because this is just the thing.

01:00:45.180 The Christian Democrats, now Friedrich Merz, he's our chancellor.

01:00:49.600 Um, the number, the number one issue he ran on during this campaign was, uh, and he said, so, um, I'm going to close the border on day one as chancellor.

01:01:00.760 I will close the border on day one if I get elected chancellor.

01:01:05.940 Well, guess what?

01:01:07.360 The, uh, precincts closed.

01:01:09.520 And not 24 hours later, he was like, no one ever said anything about any closing any borders.

01:01:16.340 Right.

01:01:16.740 So, immediately he, you know, just was like, nope, never even talked about that.

01:01:21.860 So, um, he, once again, the people were betrayed.

01:01:27.000 Um, so they were promised things that maths was never even considering to, you know, uh, implement them.

01:01:35.600 So, and that's when, uh, we started polling at 27%, actually, and the Christian Democrats had dropped down to, like, 24, 25%.

01:01:43.380 And what's the AFD at now?

01:01:45.780 Um, we are now back at, like, 24%, and the Christian Democrats are now up 26, 27, kind of percentage.

01:01:52.380 And where's your support localized?

01:01:54.320 I'm sorry?

01:01:54.680 Who are your supporters most fundamentally?

01:01:57.080 I think the AFD is more, more popular in the former East Germany.

01:02:00.320 Yes, it is.

01:02:00.740 Okay.

01:02:01.060 Yes, they are.

01:02:01.640 Mm-hmm.

01:02:02.360 And, um, notably so, you also see this, this trend in the Eastern European countries, former Eastern European countries, that were once under Soviet totalitarian rule.

01:02:12.820 Right.

01:02:12.840 They're a lot more leery of the progressive claims.

01:02:15.660 Right.

01:02:16.120 Their common sense politics, um, is more appealing to these people than in, in Western, Western Germany.

01:02:22.960 But the point that, um, we do have, my party has a lot of support in the former, uh, GDR states and Eastern Germany is for a very simple reason.

01:02:34.640 Um, these people, they remember, and they see totalitarianism when, when they recognize it when they see it.

01:02:42.760 Mm-hmm.

01:02:43.020 And they are recognizing it as we speak.

01:02:45.880 Uh, they have learned how to read a newspaper.

01:02:48.500 It's not important what the newspaper says.

01:02:50.780 It's more important what doesn't the newspaper say.

01:02:53.400 Mm-hmm.

01:02:53.560 And what is it saying in between the lines.

01:02:55.440 And they're, they have very fine mechanisms, um, that they can sense if, uh, something is, is not democratic, like free speech.

01:03:07.200 Free speech is being stripped away pretty much everywhere.

01:03:10.460 So, they, they see totalitarianism, um, they see it once again being ushered in.

01:03:17.820 And that's why they're, they're voting in vast numbers for us.

01:03:20.580 So, we are like 38, 39 percent, even 40 percent in the Eastern German, German states.

01:03:28.100 And, um, it's really, you know, just looking back, I, I experienced when the wall came down.

01:03:33.320 Um, so I probably have to start here saying, um, my family, my, my parents and my siblings, we were the only ones from my family that actually lived in West Germany.

01:03:45.800 The rest of my family, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, they all lived in Eastern Germany.

01:03:51.960 And the reason being is, um, my dad was arrested in 1950.

01:03:57.420 So, my parents, uh, were born and raised, uh, in Erfurt, this is Thuringia, it's Eastern Germany.

01:04:03.700 Um, born and raised there.

01:04:05.900 And, uh, my dad was arrested in 1950, um, for alleged, having allegedly, uh, entertained or been, uh, involved in anti-Soviet, anti-Soviet, anti-Soviet spionage.

01:04:18.300 So, he was arrested, he was tried, uh, it was all done in Russian, by the way.

01:04:23.840 And he was sentenced to 25 years of hard labor to one of the most horrific political prisons you can imagine, Bautzen.

01:04:31.540 So, uh, unfortunately, he only had to serve five years of his term.

01:04:36.560 Only?

01:04:37.420 Only, exactly.

01:04:39.380 So, uh, he was released, um, he was arrested when he was 22.

01:04:43.360 And once he found out that was in Bautzen, um, they wouldn't even tell him how, how long he got, how long the sentence was.

01:04:50.620 Um, a comrade of his in Bautzen, he could read Russian.

01:04:53.900 And he told him 25 years.

01:04:55.860 My father was devastated.

01:04:57.600 I mean, 22 years old, plus 27.

01:04:59.980 He was like, I'm going to be an old man by the time I get out of here.

01:05:02.920 So, anyway, he was released in, in 55.

01:05:05.900 Uh, and he still would shut up.

01:05:07.800 He still would not shut up.

01:05:09.960 I know.

01:05:10.340 So, um, then he was, uh, about to get arrested a second time in 59, but that time he was warned.

01:05:16.980 And, uh, he fled, GDR, uh, Easter, Saturday before Easter, uh, in 59.

01:05:23.960 My mom, with my two older sisters who had already been born, she followed him in 61, May of 61.

01:05:31.480 So, I had the luck I was born.

01:05:32.940 How did they get out?

01:05:34.440 They, well, once my dad left, it wasn't that big a deal.

01:05:37.760 There was no border, no nothing.

01:05:39.360 So, it was 59, like I said.

01:05:41.760 He just, you know, pretty much got, you couldn't tell anyone that you were trying to leave, right?

01:05:46.740 You just did it.

01:05:47.960 So, when my mom did it in 61, it was a little, uh, more difficult.

01:05:53.080 The, the, the wall hadn't been built, but it was already closed off.

01:05:57.600 So, that was, uh, that's a whole other story for some other time.

01:06:01.480 So, anyhow, um, I was born and raised in Western Germany, but, um, whenever my family went anywhere, ever, it was always GDR, always. 0.53

01:06:12.900 And, um, I still remember the first time we were even allowed to go, there was, um, Easter of 74.

01:06:21.220 And the Chancellor of Germany had struck a deal with GDR because they needed money.

01:06:25.580 They were in desperate need of money.

01:06:26.960 And, uh, he negotiated with them, well, look, you know, we help you financially, but, uh, in return, you will have to, um, ease the restrictions on travel between the countries.

01:06:40.380 So, and, uh, for the very first time, uh, refuge, or the ones that had fledged the country, they were considered state of the, of GDR, enemy of the state of GDR.

01:06:52.540 For the very first time, they were allowed back in the country to visit.

01:06:56.580 So, I was six years at the time, but I, I'll, I'll never, never forget that.

01:07:01.480 So, we were, I'm tearing up, I'm sorry.

01:07:04.260 As we were driving up to the border, I mean, there were cars and cars and cars and cars.

01:07:10.860 And we were, we're like standing in four, four cars in a row just trying to get in.

01:07:16.240 And, um, but it was like, you never do what happened.

01:07:20.000 You never knew what are they going to do to you this time.

01:07:24.060 Take your car apart, you know, because they're looking for some magazine or whatever.

01:07:28.300 It was like, it was always like, um, Russian roulette pretty much, you know, will you be able to get back out?

01:07:37.680 You, you never really knew.

01:07:39.260 So, but the first time we went there, that was, um, yeah.

01:07:44.260 So, anyhow, we went there and then, um, now going fast forward to 89, um, in May of 89, uh, in Hungary,

01:07:55.240 there was a pan-European festival of some kind.

01:07:59.760 And Hungarian government, for whatever reason, had decided to open up a gate.

01:08:06.880 There was the, the border to Austria, right?

01:08:10.180 To the Western, Western world pretty much.

01:08:12.400 And they decided to open that up so that people could, you know, walk back and forth for that day.

01:08:18.800 The plan was only for that day.

01:08:20.740 But there was a lot of people from GDR that were visiting Hungary.

01:08:26.940 That was like the only country they could really go to within the Eastern Bloc they were allowed to travel to.

01:08:33.200 And they, that gate's open, that gate's open.

01:08:36.100 There were like 400 people, um, once they realized that they fled, right, to Austria.

01:08:41.280 So, but since Hungary had done that, they couldn't really go back on that.

01:08:47.920 So, then they decided to just tear down, start tearing down this, this fence.

01:08:54.120 And that sparked something with the population in GDR.

01:08:58.660 They were fed up, you know, with this communist system and everything.

01:09:02.180 So, then they started to take to the streets.

01:09:05.360 Every Monday night, they would protest.

01:09:07.640 In the beginning, it was only a few people.

01:09:09.480 So, the, the Stasi came in, you know, the, the secret state police, um, Stasi came in and, you know, just arrested them.

01:09:16.900 Who were particularly vicious in East Germany.

01:09:18.400 Exactly, arrested them, you know, to never, to be seen again, whatever.

01:09:22.940 The families didn't even know where the, where, you know, their relatives were.

01:09:26.900 Um, but once this process all started, it was like the genie was out of the bottle kind of thing.

01:09:33.820 And there was no way of getting it back in, right?

01:09:35.900 So, it evolved and, um, and I've been watching the news ever since that happened in Hungary.

01:09:43.620 I was like, something is evolving here and they're not going to be able to, to, you know, contain it.

01:09:50.200 I was sure of that.

01:09:51.380 This is, this is just going to go now.

01:09:52.980 So, I was watching the news, every news show on every channel.

01:09:57.500 I was videotaping it to preserve it, you know, whatever.

01:10:01.000 So, I was really following this whole process very, very closely.

01:10:05.580 Um, and then, uh, the people of GDR, they occupied, they not occupied, but fled to the embassy in Prague.

01:10:16.060 And pretty much the embassy in Prague, it was just overflowing.

01:10:19.840 I mean, there were like 3,000 citizens of GDR in the embassy, uh, requesting asylum.

01:10:27.340 But, um, the German embassy, they couldn't like take him out because they would have to use a landline, right?

01:10:34.460 Which inevitably would have meant crossing communist territory, Soviet controlled territory.

01:10:40.920 So, they were just trapped there.

01:10:42.360 So, once again, they were negotiating and, um, then on, it was September 30th and 89th, the very first train with all of these refugees was transported out of Prague into Western Germany.

01:10:57.680 The GDR, however, the government, they made a drastic mistake.

01:11:02.260 They insisted that this train would not take a direct route, which would, would have been Austria and then Western Germany.

01:11:10.380 They insisted this train has to cross through GDR territory because they wanted to keep their face and wanted to say, look, they didn't flee.

01:11:20.460 We expelled them.

01:11:21.600 That was, you know, their rationale behind that.

01:11:24.700 Well, that was a big mistake because what it led to, once it was known that this train was traveling through GDR territory,

01:11:33.080 the people were just lining up by the thousands along the, the, uh, where the train was going to come through in the hopes of being able to jump on the train, right?

01:11:44.060 So, they were completely overwhelmed with keeping all of these people off of the tracks and off of the train stations that it passed through.

01:11:52.660 So, they never made that mistake again.

01:11:55.380 So, um, a few people actually did manage to jump on that driving train, especially in the stations where it has to slow down, right?

01:12:03.980 So, they actually managed to jump, jump on these trains as they were, were going, yeah, to freedom.

01:12:10.360 So, um, yeah, but the whole system just, just failed.

01:12:15.660 And, um, but I still remember is that, so October 7th, 1989, 1989, there was, um, the 40th anniversary of GDR.

01:12:29.000 And, you know, they always celebrated that with, you know, the international elites from the Soviets, uh, the countries and all of that.

01:12:37.540 And, um, there, these protests, you know, grew, we're now talking like 10th of thousands of people.

01:12:46.080 And, um, they wanted to put a stop to this.

01:12:48.800 The government wanted, they didn't want any interruptions during their celebration of their grandiose state, right?

01:12:55.640 Um, so, um, they had called in the military, um, to, yeah, pretty much just cut it down, whatever protests there might be, right?

01:13:05.960 And, uh, my cousin was, uh, in the military back then.

01:13:10.640 He had to because he wanted to go to university and you couldn't go to university unless you had committed yourself, uh, for the military for three years, I think it was.

01:13:21.180 So, he was in the military back then and he was called to Leipzig.

01:13:24.780 And in Leipzig, there was, like, this big demonstration protest, uh, uh, plant and, uh, that they were ready to go.

01:13:32.560 They were deployed.

01:13:33.320 They were ready to go.

01:13:35.080 All that was missing was the order to actually move in.

01:13:39.800 And once they realized there was 70,000 people on the street protesting for freedom, they just crumbled.

01:13:49.540 The order never came, but they were ready to go.

01:13:54.960 And the pictures of this, I mean, and 70,000, again, um, it's a small amount of, of people when you really think about it.

01:14:03.720 There were 16 million, the population was 16 million, 70,000 is like, what, 0.5% roughly, somewhere around there.

01:14:12.900 That was enough.

01:14:14.140 That was enough to bring the system down.

01:14:17.480 They didn't dare to deploy or have the military move in.

01:14:21.800 So, in these pictures, there were, um, two or three guys that had hit in a church tower to shoot, get some footage from that protest.

01:14:32.040 And they were risking their lives.

01:14:34.000 They literally were risking their lives just to hide up in that, uh, uh, tower to film people protesting on the street.

01:14:42.280 And, uh, we already had this footage in Western Germany by the time the eight o'clock news came on.

01:14:49.500 So, once I saw that, I was like, it's done.

01:14:52.940 This is done.

01:14:55.220 And it was finally done then November 9th.

01:14:58.440 The German government representative, Günther Scharbowski, um, he gave a press conference.

01:15:03.960 And they had decided to probably to calm it all down a bit and people wouldn't protest that much anymore.

01:15:11.720 They decided to release the restrictions on traveling.

01:15:15.280 So, up until that point, the only ones that could have traveled from Eastern Germany to visit West Germany were pensioners, were people that no longer worked. 0.88

01:15:26.380 If you were, uh, of working age, you were not allowed to leave the country unless you had a very, very good reason and the government decided if that was a good, good enough reason for you to be allowed.

01:15:37.620 They decided to remove these restrictions.

01:15:40.940 But, Günther Scharbowski, he was somewhat confused and, um, he was just saying, well, we will, uh, issue visas for people wanting to visit, you know, Western Germany.

01:15:55.060 And then a journalist, he asked, and he was like, uh, in what time frame are we talking here?

01:16:01.000 When will that go into effect?

01:16:03.420 And he was confused about that.

01:16:05.300 So, he shuffled the paper around and he said, well, as far as I know, as far as I know, yeah, as far as I know, immediately.

01:16:11.800 And that was it.

01:16:13.640 People heard, I heard that.

01:16:15.380 There was the five o'clock news that was aired.

01:16:17.560 And I'm like, what?

01:16:19.560 Immediately, we heard so many things.

01:16:21.620 So, we didn't really believe it.

01:16:22.940 But the people in GDR, he said, he said immediately, we are going to, we're going to take it, his word for it.

01:16:30.000 And they proceeded to the, to the walls.

01:16:32.880 And that's when the whole thing came down.

01:16:35.200 And once again, there were no orders.

01:16:37.820 So, these, uh, patrols at the border, they didn't know what the heck to do.

01:16:43.160 They're having thousands of people standing there demanding to just open it up, open it up.

01:16:49.280 And they were, uh, trying to reach someone high up in the command who could have made that decision.

01:16:57.620 They didn't.

01:16:58.940 They never made a decision.

01:17:00.100 So, they were pretty much left all of the people at the border stranded with no direction, no orders, no nothing, leaving them out to fend for themselves.

01:17:10.580 It's pretty much what they had to do.

01:17:12.600 So, and eventually, they just gave in and opened it up.

01:17:15.440 And that's when this glorious night of November 9th then actually happened.

01:17:19.940 Right.

01:17:20.100 Well, and all the Eastern Europeans remember that and know that, you know, one of the things that's part of the, I started this, I helped start this organization in the UK called ARC, the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship.

01:17:34.060 And, um, we haven't been pilloried too badly with the far-right epithet, partly because we've tried to operate more in the philosophical domain than the political, which seems to be working quite nicely.

01:17:47.080 But we're not big fans of net zero idiocy or, um, centralized, essentially fascist collusion between governments, media, um, large corporations, et cetera.

01:17:59.180 Um, and we're, we're also, we also believe that the ethos that makes Europe and the West a high trust and therefore a productive society is Judeo-Christian to its core.

01:18:17.060 Yeah, you know, um, 100% of Protestant and Catholic-majority countries outside of Africa are productive Western democracies.

01:18:26.800 100%.

01:18:27.440 Yes.

01:18:28.220 Right.

01:18:28.540 And three of, three of the multitude of countries that are Islamic are quasi-democracies at best. 1.00

01:18:39.340 Yeah.

01:18:39.640 Right.

01:18:39.900 That's a stark difference.

01:18:42.200 So let's return to the AFD more specifically to, to, uh, to bring this in for a landing.

01:18:49.700 You described the machinations of the other political parties as a uniparty, essentially.

01:18:57.400 Pretty much.

01:18:57.800 You said that regardless of their original place of origin or orientation, they've melded together.

01:19:05.120 I suppose partly under the pressure of having to form coalitions.

01:19:08.520 But they, they seem primarily united by their opposition to the German population that you think that's appealing and fundamentally different.

01:19:24.000 Let's see if we can tie that in with your concerns about the euro, about the euro, about the EU, about the net zero catastrophe, and about immigration.

01:19:32.260 Are those the major themes?

01:19:33.680 Are there others?

01:19:34.480 These are pretty much the major themes.

01:19:37.480 Okay.

01:19:37.800 And so what's the AFD's pitch to people?

01:19:40.660 And why is it, why is it gathering steam as it moves?

01:19:45.200 And I'd also like to talk about the fact that, from what I understand, and I suppose this is a lesser severe, what, analog to the situation that occurred in Romania that you described earlier.

01:20:00.160 You're, the AFD is alienated from the possibility of participating in any coalitions, right?

01:20:06.600 You guys are on the outs, right?

01:20:08.480 Yes.

01:20:08.600 The other parties will meld together.

01:20:11.320 You're seeing this happen in other places in Europe as well, where the rule is, you know, don't cooperate under any conditions with the so-called fascists.

01:20:21.080 Okay, so tell me what the AFD is offering to people and why you think that's become increasingly popular.

01:20:28.020 Well, pretty much all we are really saying is let's approach politics, once again, with common sense.

01:20:35.080 What is good for the country?

01:20:36.840 What is good for the people?

01:20:38.600 Like I said, if you, you know, just catering to niche kind of interest groups, you know, you are not representing the German people.

01:20:49.980 So this is pretty much what we're saying.

01:20:52.120 And going from there, others, the consequences of that is following, right?

01:20:58.240 So should we flood our country with millions and millions of so-called asylum seekers, 99.9% of which are young men of fighting age?

01:21:12.060 Should we really do this, right?

01:21:14.040 Should we de-industrialize our nation?

01:21:18.000 I mean, Germany, we don't have any natural resources.

01:21:21.360 Our resources, it's always been our brains.

01:21:25.000 And your conscientiousness.

01:21:26.360 Our, you know, engineers, that type, that was our resource, our only resource.

01:21:32.340 We don't have natural resources, not a lot that is worth mentioning anyway.

01:21:37.660 So in our industry, that was our driving factor, right?

01:21:43.060 So by tearing that down, it's going to end in tragedy.

01:21:49.100 It's going to end in poverty.

01:21:50.960 That's pretty much what we're doing.

01:21:52.380 We're already seeing that because a lot of industry, they are moving out of Germany because they no longer can afford to pay these energy prices, right?

01:22:01.560 They're skyrocketing, so, and we were told, by the way, in 1989, that's the first time that the Green Party became part of the coalition in the national parliament, in the national government.

01:22:15.640 And we were promised that this whole climate change, no, climate change, energy kind of change is not going to, isn't going to cost us more.

01:22:26.900 No, it's going to provide opportunity, right?

01:22:29.640 There'll be more economic growth.

01:22:31.160 Ice cream.

01:22:31.800 It's not going to be any more than that, right?

01:22:34.380 That's what we were promised.

01:22:35.780 People are now seeing it was a blatant lie.

01:22:38.820 So that's what we're people offering.

01:22:40.940 And the most important issue, I think, what we're offering is freedom, democracy, and the rule of law and our constitution, our Grundgesetz.

01:22:53.260 This is what we're offering to the people.

01:22:55.700 We are offering freedom of speech, true freedom of speech.

01:23:01.160 And not like this so-called freedom of speech, as Idi Amin would have once said, this dictator from an African country. 0.90

01:23:13.680 Yeah, exactly.

01:23:14.340 He once said, there is freedom of speech.

01:23:18.040 I just cannot guarantee freedom after speech, right?

01:23:21.760 So that is pretty much what the uniparties, they're offering us.

01:23:26.260 Oh, you get to say whatever you want.

01:23:28.340 You just have to suffer the consequences, right?

01:23:30.720 That's not free speech.

01:23:32.120 So freedom, individual freedom.

01:23:35.780 That's the number one thing that our societies are based on.

01:23:39.640 It's individuality.

01:23:42.120 And there we will go into or probably get into this whole transgender issue. 0.94

01:23:49.420 And what's it called?

01:23:54.160 Intersectionality and all of that.

01:23:55.880 I think you once said that if you divide the population into so many different individuals, right, and even find more ways to separate them, what will you end up with in the end with the individual?

01:24:11.660 But we already had that.

01:24:13.200 We already had that.

01:24:14.900 But we're, you know, pretty much abolishing that.

01:24:17.360 That's right.

01:24:17.840 Individual rights are the ultimate expression of intersectionality.

01:24:21.620 Right.

01:24:22.100 But we were willing, the majority was willing to sacrifice the right of an individual to make autonomous decisions over his own body because of this, what, virus that was going around and apparently killing, you know, people left and right.

01:24:42.200 But that was not the lived reality.

01:24:43.960 I mean, they made it sound like as though if you woke up in the morning, you opened your front door, the first thing you would have had to do is work your way, you know, to all the dead bodies.

01:24:55.620 That's what they made it.

01:24:56.940 That's what they made it sound like what this, what COVID was going to do.

01:25:01.440 But lived reality was not anywhere near to that.

01:25:05.520 But once again, they were preying on fear, were putting people into fear, they would put on their masks, stay at home, don't ask any questions.

01:25:16.540 And for God's sake, don't let any scientist speak who has unrefutable evidence for alternative methods of dealing with this.

01:25:27.280 We see that as another reflection of that emergent totalitarianism.

01:25:30.600 Absolutely.

01:25:30.980 So I want to ask you about your international work.

01:25:36.360 I mean, I think, and that's particularly relevant given that you're in Canada and doing somewhat of a tour.

01:25:41.900 And for everybody watching and listening, we're going to, when we move over to the Daily Wire side, I'm going to focus the conversation on immigration.

01:25:49.040 And I'd like to address a question, which is, is it even possible in Germany in particular to take a stance against unrestricted immigration without running into the problematic labeling of far right or fascist?

01:26:04.600 And I think that's a more acute problem in Germany than it is anywhere else.

01:26:08.600 So I'd like to discuss that with you on the Daily Wire side.

01:26:10.860 For now, I think, to close this off, I'd like you to speculate about, I don't know if there is a conservative politician in the EU, in Europe, that has a, that's more widely known internationally than you.

01:26:30.620 And I'm curious about, first of all, why you think that is, why you pursue that, because you do, and also what you'd like to say to the conservatives, the more middle-of-the-road conservatives, or the arguably, the self, those who self-proclaim themselves as more middle-of-the-road.

01:26:51.500 So I'd like to know what you, what you have to say to them and what warning you might have for them as well.

01:26:59.080 So let's start with your, your impact on the international front and why you think that's happened and why you also pursue it.

01:27:09.900 Let's begin with that.

01:27:11.400 Well, to be honest, I don't really know why it happened.

01:27:15.620 I guess I'm just, I have a big mouth.

01:27:18.880 Well, you're a fiery speaker.

01:27:21.880 My parents always, you know, taught and teach us too.

01:27:26.420 But that may be one reason, but I don't really know.

01:27:29.820 But why do I pursue it?

01:27:31.220 I think that's the more interesting question and one I actually have an answer for.

01:27:36.380 It's very simple.

01:27:38.180 It's during the COVID, it was so obvious what the playbook was.

01:27:46.200 And it was to abolish freedom, democracy, and the rule of law in every single Western democracy.

01:27:54.580 As I said earlier, they didn't need to do any of that in China anymore.

01:27:57.960 That was already a totalitarian regime, right?

01:28:00.780 So these people are being told to do something, they do it.

01:28:04.420 And they have, they have means to make the people do it.

01:28:08.440 But they lack.

01:28:08.820 100 million closed-circuit TV cameras.

01:28:11.340 They're multiplying like mad in the West, too.

01:28:14.460 But they didn't have a way of making people in Western democracies to do what they were told to do.

01:28:22.500 They had no means.

01:28:24.020 So they needed to prepare for that.

01:28:26.400 And our freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, we are under attack, especially in the Western democracies.

01:28:36.280 And that's why I'm speaking.

01:28:39.840 I mean, most of my colleagues speak German in the EU parliament or they speak in their native language.

01:28:45.160 I choose to hold many of my speeches in English, and I do so for the reason, because I want a lot of people to directly understand what I said.

01:28:59.300 Well, that's another problem we have in the EU parliament.

01:29:03.180 It's like this Babylonic language confusion is what we're suffering from, actually.

01:29:09.700 So I want to directly, I want to be able to speak to as many people as possible.

01:29:15.200 And the English language is.

01:29:17.320 So that's a key reason as well, that your message is spread.

01:29:20.740 Well, you also say things that other people won't say.

01:29:23.540 I'm sorry?

01:29:24.100 You also say things that other people won't say.

01:29:26.840 And you're not particularly polite about it.

01:29:29.620 Like you're very blunt and direct.

01:29:31.040 They are not polite either.

01:29:32.380 No, no, look, that's not a criticism.

01:29:35.240 No, no, no, I totally get it.

01:29:36.880 But I mean, the time where I exchanged verbal flowers and chocolates, done.

01:29:43.600 Right.

01:29:44.180 I'm done with that.

01:29:45.180 Right.

01:29:45.420 Because they're not polite to me.

01:29:47.000 I mean, they're calling me every name in the book.

01:29:49.240 I've been called a murderer for not wearing a mask during COVID, right?

01:29:54.520 I had reasons for doing that.

01:29:56.500 I had a medical exemption even for not having to wear a mask.

01:30:00.180 Still, I was called a murderer. 0.97

01:30:03.100 It's ridiculous. 0.88

01:30:03.880 So, if they're like that, as far as I'm concerned, why should I, you know, treat them any less, let's say, aggressive? 0.80

01:30:13.080 So, and then to close, I would say, what do you have to say to the conservatives who insist upon distancing themselves from you on the grounds of your unacceptable far-right views? 1.00

01:30:34.200 Well, I just wish these idiots, I can't really say it any different, these idiots would realize it's something the left is actually doing to keep them on a leash. 0.99

01:30:49.200 So, it's actually harming them, they're harming themselves by doing so, because they have to surrender policies that they otherwise might have been advocating for, but now can't, because we're doing the same thing, right? 0.99

01:31:06.180 So, if we're advocating for a certain issue, they have to stay far away from that as to not be associated anywhere near us or with us, right?

01:31:16.200 So, what they're effectively doing is they are, in the attempt to appeal to the left, they're surrendering their ability to actually set policy. 0.99

01:31:32.180 If they want to do that, that's fine, but like I said, I wish these idiots would wisen up to what the left is doing with them. 0.99

01:31:40.180 It's that they're putting them on a leash, and they let them, they let them. 1.00

01:31:45.080 So, tell everyone what you're doing in Canada and how long you're going to be here.

01:31:51.020 Christine is in Canada, she's in Toronto right now speaking with me, she's going to Calgary.

01:31:56.120 So, what are you doing in Canada, why Canada, and any parting words?

01:32:00.560 Well, I mean, I've really grown fond of Canada, and this whole started with a Canadian freedom trucker, the convoy back then.

01:32:10.380 And again, I saw this happening, and I was like, gosh, finally someone is doing something.

01:32:17.700 It was, you know, then I met a lot of people, they said, you know, you resonated, you know, what we were feeling.

01:32:24.700 But I was like, no, it was, if you guys hadn't done that, if you guys had not started the convoy, I would not have had anything to resonate about, right?

01:32:34.780 So, it was really, it was a one-way street, it was a two-way street here.

01:32:39.860 So, but, yeah, that was just spectacular what they did here.

01:32:44.440 And once again, I realized that this is going to be a turning point here.

01:32:48.420 It was a turning point in a variety of ways, because it was the first time a Western government froze people's bank accounts.

01:32:53.920 Exactly.

01:32:54.500 Right, that was a turning point.

01:32:55.920 But, exactly, it was.

01:32:57.780 Not in a sense of that it's going to stop now, no.

01:33:01.280 No, that's for sure.

01:33:02.260 In a sense of that will force them to show their true colors, and they did.

01:33:08.220 Freezing bank accounts, you just said.

01:33:10.020 That was the worst thing I'd ever seen a Canadian government do.

01:33:12.840 Or classifying people as terrorists.

01:33:14.000 Oh, yeah, it was unbelievable.

01:33:15.420 Right, but they were forced to show their true colors, and that's what they did.

01:33:20.540 And there is this, maybe on this, we can end on this note.

01:33:25.040 There is a saying in Germany, I don't like the person who said it first, but I quote her nevertheless. 1.00

01:33:31.360 We cannot force them to tell the truth, but we can force them to lie even more blatantly.

01:33:40.600 And that's pretty much what the freedom truckers did.

01:33:43.980 Right.

01:33:44.260 Just expose it, expose all of their lies, and their tyrannical ambitions, and their totalitarianism.

01:33:52.400 That's what they did.

01:33:54.000 And that's why I just love Canada, and that's why I'm glad to be back.

01:33:57.880 Even though there are some people that don't like me being back, but I guess Canada is still a free country, and I will come here if I like.

01:34:08.680 And I do like Canada, and I will be back.

01:34:11.940 Well, I'll be in Germany in the winter, between January and March.

01:34:20.480 I have a tour through Europe, 35 cities, I think, and I can go see for myself.

01:34:25.540 Again, I've been to Europe a number of times, and I'm hoping to go see for myself exactly the situation.

01:34:32.360 So thank you very much for speaking with me today and for delving into these issues and sharing what you know with everybody who's watching and listening.

01:34:41.140 It's much appreciated.

01:34:43.360 And thank you to everybody who's watching and listening.

01:34:46.460 It's a very important issue, you know, because Europe is shakier than I've seen it in my lifetime by a lot.

01:34:53.500 And that's particularly true of, I would say, France, Germany, and the UK.

01:34:57.380 And those are the linchpins of Western Europe, all things considered.

01:35:02.520 Eastern Europe, arguably, is in a little better shape ideologically, although it doesn't have the population or the economic clout.

01:35:08.840 But why pay attention to Europe?

01:35:12.880 Well, because they're part of the West, and as Europe goes, so go us. 0.82

01:35:18.480 So that's why we're paying attention to the AFD in Germany and trying to sort out what's going on there politically.

01:35:26.320 Thanks for your time and attention.

01:35:27.500 On the Daily Wire side, we're going to talk about immigration and cultural differences, because we haven't got ourselves in enough trouble yet.

01:35:35.360 So join us there if you're inclined.

01:35:37.380 And thanks to the Daily Wire for making this possible, and to the film crew here in Toronto today for setting this up.

01:35:42.360 And thanks again, Christine.

01:35:43.680 Thanks for having me.

01:35:44.620 You bet.

01:35:44.940 Thank you.

01:35:49.400 Bye.

01:35:50.760 Bye.

01:35:54.500 Bye.

01:35:55.720 Bye.

01:35:56.540 Bye.

01:35:57.220 Bye.

01:36:01.640 Bye.

01:36:03.000 Bye.

01:36:03.820 Bye.

01:36:04.020 Bye.

01:36:04.740 Bye.

01:36:05.380 Bye.

01:36:06.900 Bye.

01:36:08.080 Bye.

01:36:10.140 Bye.

01:36:10.980 Bye.

01:36:12.200 Bye.

01:36:12.780 Bye.

01:36:13.060 Bye.

01:36:13.200 Bye.

01:36:14.280 Bye.

01:36:14.660 Bye.

How to Stop Europe’s Collapse： What We Can Learn from Germany's Mistakes ｜ Christine Anderson

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