The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - How to Stop Sabotaging Your Own Life

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00:00:30.000 Hello, everybody. Welcome to the seventh of my release tour lectures from We Who Wrestle With God.

00:00:37.620 A little update for the week.

00:00:40.220 Well, the biggest news is that I have a new grandson, Francis Fuller, 8 pounds, 1 ounce, born at 11.14 p.m. on July 29th.

00:00:51.200 So that's number seven.

00:00:55.740 It's so good to have kids around.

00:01:00.000 My son released an album this week called Overcome.

00:01:05.440 It's available on Spotify.

00:01:08.420 It details the various things that him and his family have gone through in the last few years.

00:01:14.120 He opened for my tour.

00:01:17.300 That was exciting.

00:01:18.800 I enjoyed that a lot, so give that a listen.

00:01:22.860 We released the climate piece.

00:01:24.820 we released a piece detailing out i would say the big climate lie the failure of the modelers to

00:01:33.420 take into account the effect of carbon dioxide on plant growth which has been phenomenal so you can

00:01:39.660 check that out on x or at the telegraph because the telegraph published it in its entirety anyways

00:01:45.880 on with the show i hope you find it useful challenging provocative compelling all those

00:01:52.980 things a lecture should be the question of belief currently plagues the world

00:02:08.520 and that's true culturally and politically

00:02:14.720 say with regards to so-called identity politics identity isn't politics

00:02:22.980 By the way, identity is something much more fundamental than politics.

00:02:28.240 And so, when we have identity politics, we have the collapse of the sacred into the political.

00:02:37.320 And that's a reflection of the death of God.

00:02:40.200 And that is not a good thing.

00:02:41.780 That is failure to keep those things that should be rendered unto Caesar separate from those things that should be rendered unto God.

00:02:50.060 tonight we're going to investigate

00:02:54.340 what it means to believe

00:02:59.840 I would say

00:03:01.300 and we're going to do that in relationship to

00:03:04.160 the biblical stories

00:03:06.680 which is what this book

00:03:08.920 that the tour is based on

00:03:11.020 is about

00:03:12.000 is the Bible true?

00:03:17.960 well the first

00:03:19.060 issue you have to wrestle with

00:03:22.800 if you're going to pose that question is

00:03:26.420 well, what's the Bible about?

00:03:31.100 And you have to understand

00:03:33.100 the argument

00:03:36.220 that it's dramatizing

00:03:38.740 in order to

00:03:40.660 address that issue squarely.

00:03:43.680 And you might ask,

00:03:45.980 why bother?

00:03:46.760 And I suppose the simplest answer to that is, whether you're an atheist or a believer, a Christian, let's say, or a Jew,

00:03:58.640 you can't escape the fact that the civilization that dominates the world, for better or worse, Western civilization, is a product of the biblical text.

00:04:10.600 And so, wrestling with it is inescapable.

00:04:18.240 What are we wrestling with?

00:04:23.040 What's the Bible about?

00:04:28.920 The Bible presents a characterization of God.

00:04:32.900 It presents multiple specific characterizations of God in a manner that integrate into a unity.

00:04:45.540 The unity is the monotheistic God of the biblical corpus.

00:04:53.980 The Bible is a characterization of God.

00:04:57.220 It's also a characterization of man and woman and society and a portrayal of the relationship or the covenant between man, woman, society, and God.

00:05:11.900 And so, is that characterization valid?

00:05:18.160 That's the same question as whether or not the Bible is true.

00:05:22.180 Well, what's the characterization?

00:05:27.220 So that's the question we'll investigate tonight.

00:05:30.860 Now, this is the last lecture for me of a 60-city tour.

00:05:37.880 I'll be hitting the road again with Tammy and my crew in November when my book comes out.

00:05:44.860 But this is the end of the first run of the public events that are associated with We Who Wrestle With God.

00:05:54.520 And it's a very good time for me to take stock because I've had 60 lectures to practice and all the time that I was touring, I was also writing.

00:06:08.900 And so tonight I'm going to try to integrate.

00:06:18.000 Richard Dawkins said something about the Bible.

00:06:20.760 you know dawkins he's perhaps the most famous of the four horsemen of the atheist movement the new

00:06:28.600 atheist movement a movement what's looking a little shaky at the moment by the way not least

00:06:35.200 because of dawkins recent announcement that he was a cultural christian which of course begs the

00:06:42.040 question if richard dawkins the world's most famous atheist is a cultural christian just

00:06:48.640 exactly what did the Christians

00:06:50.620 get right

00:06:51.560 because it's obviously something

00:06:54.920 and it's obviously

00:06:56.380 something significant enough

00:06:58.320 so that even the world's

00:07:00.200 most famous atheist

00:07:01.500 when push comes to shove

00:07:03.620 which is what's happening

00:07:04.960 is forced

00:07:06.960 despite himself perhaps

00:07:09.720 although I believe he is a man

00:07:11.900 who in many ways is pursuing the truth

00:07:13.920 to publicly

00:07:15.820 proclaim that

00:07:16.940 we better not throw the baby out with the bath water

00:07:21.220 especially if it happens to be the divine child

00:07:24.580 that we're disposing of so to speak

00:07:27.820 Dawkins said once I believe it was Dawkins

00:07:34.120 that if the biblical stories were true

00:07:37.320 then why was there no scientific discovery

00:07:42.080 so to speak of note in the entire text

00:07:45.740 one answer to that is that

00:07:49.760 the truth that's contained in the biblical library

00:07:53.680 is literary truth or moral truth

00:07:56.200 rather than scientific truth

00:07:59.100 and that's a reasonable objection

00:08:01.800 because there's a difference between

00:08:03.960 the moral truth that lays out

00:08:06.540 a structure of perception

00:08:08.560 and a pathway of action

00:08:10.580 and the scientific truth that describes the world

00:08:14.180 those are not the same thing

00:08:16.420 we don't know how to bridge the gap

00:08:18.840 between what is

00:08:20.480 and what ought to be

00:08:22.260 as Hume, the philosopher David Hume

00:08:25.020 so famously pointed out

00:08:26.520 but I would also take objection

00:08:28.600 to Dawkins' claim

00:08:30.580 that there's nothing of scientific merit

00:08:32.740 in the biblical text

00:08:34.300 because I don't believe that's true

00:08:36.540 I think that

00:08:38.160 the deepest findings of evolutionary

00:08:40.600 psychology, biology

00:08:42.600 and the morality that is portrayed in the biblical text actually dovetail

00:08:48.800 and also think that has to be the case insofar as both are true.

00:08:53.880 That's the conclusion you would draw

00:08:57.840 if you assumed or observed that the truth is in the final analysis a unity.

00:09:06.720 What's one of the fundamental truths of the biblical library

00:09:10.480 that might be regarded as acceptable and novel,

00:09:15.160 brilliant even on the scientific front,

00:09:17.520 the truth that psychological stability and maturity

00:09:25.160 and social integrity and community itself

00:09:29.920 are predicated on sacrifice.

00:09:37.020 So what does that mean?

00:09:39.140 the Bible

00:09:41.240 characterizes God

00:09:43.220 it characterizes man, woman

00:09:45.480 and society and it characterizes

00:09:47.680 the relationship between man

00:09:49.560 woman, society and God

00:09:51.620 and it portrays

00:09:53.700 that relationship as

00:09:55.480 sacrificial

00:09:57.140 and understanding

00:09:59.740 that is

00:10:00.380 there's nothing more important

00:10:03.860 than understanding what that means

00:10:05.280 and I don't mean the understanding

00:10:07.540 that's the belief

00:10:09.460 in a creed

00:10:10.420 I believe that Jesus Christ is the

00:10:13.460 Son of God for example

00:10:15.260 that begs the question

00:10:17.160 what do you mean believe

00:10:18.580 I mean

00:10:20.060 understanding

00:10:22.080 what the biblical description

00:10:25.180 of sacrifice means

00:10:26.740 so deeply that

00:10:29.220 it becomes comprehensible

00:10:32.880 and I would say

00:10:35.620 unchallengeable

00:10:36.660 philosophically and simultaneously something of immense continuous and immediate practical

00:10:45.040 significance so to understand it you have to understand it in the highest possible manner

00:10:49.780 at the highest level of abstraction but you have to be able to

00:10:53.560 have incorporated it that understanding thoroughly enough so that it guides every

00:11:02.640 decision you make to speak or move your eyes imagine your favorite lecture dial that up on

00:11:11.900 max put that on steroids and then add some cinematic elements to it that's the best way

00:11:16.960 i could describe a peterson academy lecture i went to college because i had to i go to

00:11:23.960 peterson academy because i want to i'm still paying off college from 10 years ago and i'm

00:11:28.420 I'm also still questioning the value that I got out of college.

00:11:30.920 In traditional universities, a lot of times, it's just pretty dry.

00:11:34.420 They don't bring the same energy as the professors at Peterson Academy.

00:11:38.420 It is a completely different experience to learn from somebody who actually wants to teach you.

00:11:42.420 If you've been on the fence about this, this is the time.

00:11:46.420 That thing that's calling to you, you won't have an answer for it unless you enroll and see for yourself.

00:11:50.420 You have the opportunity to investigate that calling.

00:11:58.420 all right we'll start the examination of the characterization and the sacrificial

00:12:10.960 motif with the story of Cain and Abel it's a very short story it's a miraculously short

00:12:20.980 story. It's only about two paragraphs

00:12:22.900 long.

00:12:24.900 It's unbelievably condensed

00:12:26.860 and dense.

00:12:29.160 And it really

00:12:31.180 lays out

00:12:33.100 the battle

00:12:35.040 ground between

00:12:36.100 two different

00:12:37.980 sacrificial approaches

00:12:40.580 to life.

00:12:42.100 Not only two different sacrificial

00:12:44.740 approaches to life, but

00:12:46.320 the two

00:12:47.940 different sacrificial approaches

00:12:50.660 to life that characterize

00:12:52.500 the conflict in the

00:12:54.820 human soul, the eternal

00:12:56.980 political battle, and

00:12:58.860 the struggle between good and

00:13:00.700 evil at the level of

00:13:02.840 the cosmos

00:13:04.480 itself.

00:13:11.200 What does sacrifice

00:13:12.860 mean?

00:13:15.040 This is the rub.

00:13:17.040 When modern people read the story

00:13:18.800 of Cain and Abel,

00:13:19.560 Now, the archaic dramatization constitutes an impediment to understanding.

00:13:31.560 Abel makes an altar.

00:13:35.080 And on that altar, he immolates, burns,

00:13:42.840 the choicest cuts of the finest animals of his flock.

00:13:47.240 And he offers that to God.

00:13:48.980 Now, that's a hard thing for modern people to wrap their heads around.

00:13:53.640 We don't really understand the purpose of the altar.

00:13:58.660 We don't understand why these archaic people would immolate an offering.

00:14:08.380 We don't understand what the offering means.

00:14:11.280 And we don't understand why what's offered is what's offered.

00:14:16.160 And that's a major problem.

00:14:18.980 especially given that the story of Cain and Abel

00:14:22.580 sets the framework for understanding the entire

00:14:26.100 pattern of narrative that characterizes the Bible

00:14:31.620 after that story, as it unfolds.

00:14:37.920 The first question, therefore, is,

00:14:40.400 what does it mean to sacrifice?

00:14:42.160 It means to give something up.

00:14:54.160 Why do you have to give something up?

00:15:03.160 Well, let's imagine that you want to establish a relationship with a woman or a man in your marriage.

00:15:12.160 Is it all about you?

00:15:17.920 Well, try that out and see how it works.

00:15:22.420 My suspicions is your wife will object.

00:15:26.340 Whatever it's all about, it's not all about you.

00:15:28.680 And there's a further question there.

00:15:31.960 Even if it was all about you, exactly,

00:15:35.340 what do you mean that it's all about you?

00:15:39.220 Do you mean that it's all about what the most immature part of you wants right now and to hell with everything else?

00:15:46.740 Because generally, even if you're a small child and it's all about you,

00:15:53.400 what it actually means is that it's all about whatever whim,

00:15:57.700 whatever narrow and immature whim happens to possess you at the moment.

00:16:02.740 So even if it's all about you,

00:16:04.920 the you that it's all about

00:16:07.360 is not an integrated

00:16:09.180 and unitary you

00:16:11.640 it's some

00:16:12.520 instinctual

00:16:15.060 drive

00:16:17.320 that's possessing

00:16:19.660 you at the moment

00:16:20.540 that demands immediate gratification

00:16:23.720 regardless

00:16:25.660 of the cost

00:16:26.880 sacrifice

00:16:29.540 is necessary because things

00:16:31.420 have a cost

00:16:32.660 So even if it's all about you

00:16:37.220 In a marriage which won't work

00:16:39.820 The you that it's all about isn't even you

00:16:42.580 It's some fragment of you

00:16:44.340 That has got you in its control

00:16:47.320 That you're essentially worshipping

00:16:51.120 In a staggeringly immature

00:16:55.060 And counterproductive manner

00:16:56.680 When you say I want

00:17:01.840 But what you're really saying, if the pronouncement is immature, is that something in you that you've allowed to possess you wants.

00:17:15.020 The child who only wants to play the game his way has no friends.

00:17:24.400 Why?

00:17:25.120 Well, because to have friends, everybody else gets a turn.

00:17:30.000 not only to play

00:17:32.480 in the confines of a given game

00:17:35.080 but to pick which game is going to be played

00:17:37.320 and so if you want to have

00:17:39.160 friends

00:17:39.780 then you sacrifice

00:17:42.400 your own

00:17:44.880 omnipotence

00:17:47.280 so that you can have a community

00:17:51.220 and that's what you do

00:17:53.340 in a marriage

00:17:54.800 you

00:17:55.780 sacrifice

00:17:58.060 the necessity

00:18:00.600 for the immediate gratification

00:18:02.620 of your

00:18:03.580 immature

00:18:06.620 drives to

00:18:08.680 to what?

00:18:12.040 Exactly.

00:18:15.420 To the maintenance

00:18:16.800 of the relationship.

00:18:18.720 Your wife, your husband

00:18:21.160 needs to be

00:18:25.200 aligned with you now.

00:18:28.060 And that means that there are strictures on how you interact with your partner.

00:18:42.840 Not only do they have to be aligned with you now, they have to be aligned with you tomorrow.

00:18:48.100 And they have to be aligned with you next week and next month and next year and a decade from now and 20 years from now and 50 years from now.

00:18:56.380 So, what that means is that as you interact with every gesture and word, if you're interacting properly, you're interacting in a manner that ensures the integration of your relationship now, so that you're pleased to be in each other's company and playing properly together in a manner that makes you want to continue the game,

00:19:22.100 in a manner that makes the game playable tomorrow and next week and next month and next year

00:19:27.940 and 10 years from now and 50 years from now.

00:19:32.440 And so your mode of operation in the present requires that you sacrifice

00:19:41.380 whatever it is that something in you wants right now

00:19:45.580 to the necessity of the approval and love of your partner,

00:19:51.340 But not only that approval and love now, but that love and approval as it unfolds reciprocally along the longest possible temporal axis.

00:20:05.000 And that's not all, because it isn't just you, and it's also not just you and your wife.

00:20:12.700 It's going to be, let's say, you and your wife and your children and you and your wife and her parents and your parents and your siblings and your friends and your community.

00:20:28.620 And so what that means is that you have to regulate and integrate your desires for the moment with the future in terms of the unfolding of your multiple relationships and the community.

00:20:51.160 And you can imagine that there's a manner in which that might be conducted optimally so that everyone wants to play along.

00:21:04.160 So that there's no requirement to use compulsion or force when you could use invitation to the game.

00:21:14.560 And you could imagine that the ultimate game that everyone wants to play that works for the largest number of people across the longest possible span of time is the game that all proximal desire has to be subjugated.

00:21:44.560 two. And there's no difference between that

00:21:48.980 and offering up

00:21:53.020 your idiot whims to the Spirit of God. It's the same

00:21:56.940 thing. The Spirit of God being the ultimate

00:22:00.780 unity that beckons at the pinnacle of the hierarchy

00:22:04.700 of values that brings everything together in the

00:22:08.780 most harmonious possible way.

00:22:14.560 What does Abel do?

00:22:19.500 Well, he immolates his sacrifice on the altar.

00:22:22.320 Okay, so let's take that apart a little bit.

00:22:27.700 You burn something on an altar.

00:22:31.800 And you convert it into smoke.

00:22:36.620 You convert it into spirit, let's say.

00:22:39.720 An aerial spirit that rises.

00:22:41.780 And you do that so that the spirit that's in heaven, the ultimate up,

00:22:52.760 the spirit that's transcendent and subordinate,

00:22:56.400 the spirit that lives in heaven or the sky,

00:23:00.640 can detect the essence of your offering.

00:23:04.060 What's the hypothesis?

00:23:06.120 The unity that exists at the pinnacle of being

00:23:10.440 evaluates the quality of your sacrifice.

00:23:15.840 Now, if you believe that you're more likely to be rewarded when you do well

00:23:22.120 and less likely to be rewarded when you make a second-rate offering

00:23:27.220 or offer something in the spirit of malevolence,

00:23:31.720 then you believe that there's a transcendent spirit

00:23:35.740 that sees all, that evaluates the quality of your offerings.

00:23:42.980 Do you believe that?

00:23:44.560 Does your conscience call you to task when you offer less than your best?

00:23:52.760 That's the same question.

00:23:55.640 Abel is a shepherd, and he offers the best he has.

00:24:02.560 Why is he a shepherd?

00:24:03.440 Because a shepherd protects the flock, takes care of the vulnerable, keeps the predators, the wolves and the lions at bay, and occupies his lowly and ordinary position with dignity in service.

00:24:27.740 Abel's a shepherd

00:24:29.700 like David

00:24:30.860 like Moses

00:24:33.580 like Christ

00:24:35.480 he's an archetypal

00:24:37.840 representation of what's best

00:24:40.020 about masculinity

00:24:41.800 that capacity to

00:24:44.000 keep

00:24:46.000 the true predators at bay

00:24:47.760 and to protect the most vulnerable

00:24:50.240 Abel

00:24:52.060 is furthermore the masculine

00:24:53.720 spirit that

00:24:55.640 is

00:24:57.740 sacrifices diligently, that's his care of the flocks,

00:25:02.300 and that then takes the best of what he has to offer

00:25:08.180 and offers it upward to the highest conceivable aim.

00:25:15.320 Which means that Abel is he who does his best.

00:25:20.220 Cain, by consequence, holds something in reserve.

00:25:28.580 His sacrifices are bloodless.

00:25:32.800 They have no cost.

00:25:36.600 They are second rate.

00:25:41.000 And in consequence, Cain fails.

00:25:45.300 Abel's sacrifices are met with acceptance and admiration by the community and by God.

00:25:57.280 Abel is popular with his compatriots.

00:26:02.480 He's attractive to women.

00:26:05.200 And God himself smiles on Abel's offerings because they're of the highest quality.

00:26:15.300 Cain plays a deceptive game that's lazy and arrogant.

00:26:26.660 Lazy because he doesn't offer his best.

00:26:30.420 Deceptive because he believes that in his failure to offer his best,

00:26:36.260 he can deceive himself, his fellow men, the community as such, and God.

00:26:45.300 And so Cain is the spirit of arrogance that presumes that God himself will be satisfied with whatever you offer that's not the best.

00:26:56.340 And that's a foolish and presumptuous presupposition.

00:27:06.940 Foolish because anyone with eyes open knows that life is so difficult.

00:27:15.300 And so challenging that the probability that you will get away with anything other than your absolute best is zero.

00:27:27.600 Presumptuous because Cain believes that his own soul, his fellow man, and God are so foolish

00:27:36.440 that they'll be fooled into accepting his false offering as if it's valid.

00:27:42.740 And so Cain places himself higher in the heavenly hierarchy in terms of authority than God himself.

00:27:55.080 And that's an unwise move.

00:27:58.500 What's the consequence?

00:28:00.400 Well, what's the consequence in your own life of your failure to offer what's best?

00:28:10.480 failure

00:28:12.760 the failure that makes your countenance

00:28:17.280 fall

00:28:17.840 that's what happens to Cain

00:28:19.860 his countenance falls

00:28:22.600 why

00:28:23.500 he's unhappy

00:28:25.560 bitter

00:28:26.940 miserable

00:28:28.380 resentful

00:28:29.640 and angry

00:28:30.620 why

00:28:32.440 because his second rate

00:28:34.400 sacrifices

00:28:35.640 aren't accepted

00:28:37.420 why else

00:28:39.000 because he's forced to live with Abel, who's doing his best,

00:28:45.020 and upon whom the sun constantly shines.

00:28:51.760 Cain, whose countenance falls, becomes bitter and resentful

00:28:57.300 and determines that he's in a position to call God to judgment.

00:29:05.680 That's what we do when we observe our failures

00:29:10.280 and make the presumption that there's something wrong with the cosmic order

00:29:14.860 such that we're failing rather than presuming

00:29:19.100 if what we're offering is not being accepted

00:29:22.040 that that's a consequence of our own inadequacy.

00:29:26.920 And so Cain has a chat with God

00:29:31.120 and makes his displeasure known.

00:29:38.160 How is it, he says to God,

00:29:42.060 that you've created a world so corrupt

00:29:45.520 that everything my brother Abel does

00:29:48.580 turns to gold and everything I do fails?

00:29:55.920 And God says,

00:29:57.380 If you did well, would you not be accepted?

00:30:03.140 And that's the fundamental question of conscience.

00:30:08.260 If you are not allowed back into the paradisal garden,

00:30:15.100 perhaps you're carrying something with you that doesn't deserve admission.

00:30:22.040 The alternative to conceptualizing your miserable failure

00:30:28.700 as a consequence of your own inadequacy in sacrifice

00:30:34.140 is the presumption that there's something wrong

00:30:37.560 not only with the cosmic order

00:30:40.180 but with the nature of the spirit that established that order.

00:30:44.060 There is no difference between resentment in relationship to God

00:30:49.800 and Luciferian usurpation.

00:30:54.840 They are the same thing.

00:30:56.920 And God tells Cain two things.

00:30:59.560 Number one, if you did well, you would be accepted.

00:31:03.820 And second, don't be thinking that your resentment and bitterness and misery

00:31:11.460 is a consequence of your failure.

00:31:14.720 modern materialist left-wing social theorists assume that bitter criminality is a consequence

00:31:26.440 of poverty for example but most people who are poor aren't criminal so the causal relationship

00:31:36.000 between low socioeconomic status or even failure

00:31:41.580 and outright bitter, resentful criminality is not deterministic.

00:31:48.020 And that's what God tells Cain.

00:31:51.160 He says, your countenance has fallen

00:31:55.040 and you believe that your angry, painful bitterness

00:32:01.840 is a consequence of your failure

00:32:04.460 And you believe that that failure is a reflection of the inadequacy of creation itself.

00:32:12.360 But in truth, this is what you've done.

00:32:16.740 The spirit of sin itself crouched at your door.

00:32:23.100 And in your bitterness and resentment and failure to take responsibility,

00:32:29.700 You invited it in to have its way with you.

00:32:35.040 If you make a mistake, you could admit to the error, which is to confess.

00:32:45.100 You could reconstitute your aim and you could atone.

00:32:50.980 Or you could observe the bitter consequences of your failure, double down like the pharaonic tyrant, accuse God, and stay miserable.

00:33:05.140 That's what Cain chooses to do.

00:33:07.860 God says to him, sin crouched at your door like a sexually aroused predatory animal

00:33:16.900 and you invited it in to have its way with you.

00:33:22.220 What does that mean?

00:33:24.200 It doesn't merely mean that the spirit of sin tempted and possessed Cain.

00:33:33.840 It means that the spirit of sin could not have possessed or tempted Cain

00:33:41.560 had he not voluntarily invited it in and entered into a creative relationship with it.

00:33:49.580 Brooding upon his failure and the pain that has been generated in consequence.

00:34:07.420 Imagining how the world would be if only he had the success and the control that he wants.

00:34:15.820 dreaming of the revenge that he could take

00:34:20.120 on those that opposed him.

00:34:22.960 Imagining what it would be like if Abel failed

00:34:26.340 despite his appropriate sacrifices

00:34:28.500 and Cain prevailed.

00:34:30.620 Luxuriating in his fantasies of revenge.

00:34:35.000 You ask yourself, perhaps,

00:34:37.460 how the people who commit

00:34:40.840 the cruelest and vilest of acts

00:34:43.820 can come to that end?

00:34:47.120 And the answer is

00:34:48.720 a thousand hours of bitter fantasizing.

00:34:53.440 A thousand hours of creative consort

00:34:56.160 with the spirit of darkness itself,

00:34:59.380 which they invited in

00:35:01.300 to have its way with them

00:35:06.740 as a means of obtaining

00:35:12.260 revenge against themselves

00:35:14.680 for their failure, society

00:35:17.020 for rejecting them, and

00:35:18.880 God for having the temerity

00:35:20.740 to create the world in the first

00:35:22.940 place. And so

00:35:24.900 that's what God tells Cain.

00:35:27.220 And he is

00:35:28.260 seriously

00:35:30.160 unhappy with that

00:35:32.900 response. As we all are

00:35:35.120 when we

00:35:37.120 discuss our situation with our conscience

00:35:45.440 and are informed in consequence

00:35:50.020 that the failures that made us bitter and resentful

00:35:54.280 are a property to be laid at our own feet.

00:36:00.200 And so Cain leaves the discussion with God

00:36:03.940 and his countenance falls

00:36:06.740 further. He's

00:36:08.760 angrier. He's bitterer.

00:36:11.220 He's more bitter.

00:36:13.100 He's more resentful.

00:36:15.400 He's actively

00:36:16.460 vengeful. He's plotting.

00:36:19.780 He goes to Abel

00:36:20.820 who he admires

00:36:22.600 and wants to be

00:36:23.960 and says

00:36:25.800 perhaps we could work together

00:36:28.580 in the field.

00:36:30.440 An invitation

00:36:31.460 to play

00:36:32.400 and Abel

00:36:34.200 who's always hoping for the

00:36:37.060 reclamation of his wayward

00:36:39.340 brother agrees

00:36:40.960 and Cain takes him

00:36:43.180 to the field

00:36:45.520 and beats him

00:36:47.460 to death with a rock

00:36:48.740 and God shows up again

00:36:53.440 in the form of

00:36:55.320 Cain's conscience

00:36:56.600 and Cain says

00:36:59.140 am I my brother's keeper

00:37:01.400 And the answer to that is, yes.

00:37:05.540 And God says, the earth itself cries out to me

00:37:09.260 in consequence of the blood that's been spilled.

00:37:13.420 And Cain says, my punishment is more than I can bear.

00:37:18.400 And what does that mean?

00:37:20.480 There's no one so doomed as the person who's destroyed his own ideal.

00:37:25.380 And that's what Cain does.

00:37:27.620 No ideal, no aim.

00:37:30.640 No ideal, no upward progress, no aim and upward progress, no hope.

00:37:40.120 And so now Cain is destined to wander forever in the land of no hope alone.

00:37:51.400 And that's the land of Nod.

00:37:54.520 The land of Nod is the place that children go when they sleep.

00:37:59.240 It's the land of unconsciousness and alienation from self, man, and God that is the inevitable wandering place of the individual who makes poor sacrifices, wreaks vengeance on his fellow, shakes his fist at God,

00:38:24.100 and violates the social and divine contract.

00:38:31.600 And that's the fate of Cain.

00:38:35.580 But that's not all.

00:38:41.160 Cain's descendants are the engineers who build cities and make tools and worship technology

00:38:48.540 as an alternative to aligning their spirits properly with God.

00:38:55.340 Cain's descendants are the Canaanites who are from thenceforth on

00:39:02.300 the enemy of the chosen people of God

00:39:06.420 and the evil inhabitants of the tyrannical and hedonistic states.

00:39:12.800 And that's not all.

00:39:13.860 The descendants of Cain are the first makers of weapons of war, that's Tubal-Cain,

00:39:22.260 and the first practitioners of the tit-for-tat revenge that spirals into genocidal murder.

00:39:35.360 Lamech, who's Cain's descendants, kills seven of you if you offend him,

00:39:42.320 and his sons kill 70 of you.

00:39:45.280 And the message of that story is that

00:39:48.240 Cain's failure to make the proper sacrifices,

00:39:54.440 his developing anger and unhappiness

00:39:58.980 and bitterness and desire for vengeance

00:40:03.100 is a spirit that can spread throughout the entire community

00:40:13.340 and which results in the catastrophe of the genocidal impulse.

00:40:20.860 And so if you're wondering what happened in Nazi Germany

00:40:25.080 or if you're wondering what happened in the Stalinist Soviet Union

00:40:29.900 or in Mao's China

00:40:31.180 all those places that were indistinguishable from hell

00:40:34.480 the fundamental causal element

00:40:38.620 was the failure of

00:40:40.120 the individual inhabitants of those states

00:40:43.600 to make the proper sacrifices

00:40:45.880 that would put them in harmony

00:40:48.640 with the eternal cosmic order

00:40:51.840 the consequent bitterness that emerged

00:40:55.280 the vengeance that that failure

00:40:59.560 tempted them toward the rebellion against God,

00:41:06.620 the emergence of the murderous spirit,

00:41:10.540 and this descent of that into the genocidal catastrophe.

00:41:15.120 And so that's what you're involved in,

00:41:18.100 whether you know it or not,

00:41:20.060 when you fail to bring the best to the table.

00:41:23.160 And that's true for absolutely everything you do, no matter how small.

00:41:33.840 You're made in the image of God, or so the story goes.

00:41:41.540 Thus, nothing you do is small.

00:41:44.880 when Adam and Eve

00:41:48.560 fall prey

00:41:51.260 to the sin of pride

00:41:53.680 and history begins

00:41:56.020 in its fallen state

00:41:57.880 God

00:41:59.260 bars the road

00:42:01.760 back to

00:42:03.660 the Garden of Eden

00:42:05.180 with monstrous

00:42:07.660 cherubs terrifying

00:42:09.320 in their aspect and a

00:42:11.640 sword that is on fire

00:42:13.680 that turns every which way.

00:42:17.400 What are the monstrous cherubs?

00:42:21.660 Everything that your prideful sin

00:42:25.300 makes you terrified of.

00:42:27.940 What is the sword that burns and turns

00:42:31.860 every which way

00:42:33.360 that guards the pathway to paradise?

00:42:39.180 The divine judgment that

00:42:41.560 refuses to allow anything that isn't perfect

00:42:46.760 into heaven.

00:42:48.940 Why is that manifested as

00:42:51.420 a sword that turns every which way that burns?

00:42:55.700 A sword cuts.

00:42:57.660 A sword that turns every which way cannot be escaped.

00:43:01.160 A sword that turns every which way that's

00:43:03.900 flaming burns

00:43:05.280 to move into the state of paradise.

00:43:08.660 You have to allow everything that isn't perfect about you to be cut and burned away.

00:43:21.260 That's a sacrifice.

00:43:24.820 That's the sacrifice that's pleasing to God.

00:43:29.680 That fact alone is part of the reason that the religious enterprise is not some self-serving, sanctimonious, immature defense against the terror of death or some hypothetical creation of the Heavenly Father behind whose skirts cowards hide.

00:43:54.260 There isn't anything more terrible to contemplate than the necessity of having everything that isn't acceptable about you judged and destroyed.

00:44:08.060 Particularly if there's plenty about you that's not acceptable.

00:44:13.940 the story of Cain and Abel

00:44:23.660 establishes the sacrificial pattern

00:44:26.160 the pattern of work

00:44:28.420 the pattern of mature work upward

00:44:31.760 as the mode of

00:44:35.360 human being and becoming

00:44:37.400 human beings

00:44:39.740 sacrifice

00:44:41.740 we work

00:44:42.640 We delay gratification.

00:44:45.760 We save for the future.

00:44:48.760 We regulate our own impulses in relationship to our friends and our loved ones.

00:44:57.480 And we don't do foolish things that are enjoyable in the present because that would compromise the future.

00:45:05.880 We sacrifice immediacy for the community and the future.

00:45:12.500 Our mature mode of being is sacrificial.

00:45:17.700 Once you understand that, the only question that remains is,

00:45:23.240 what's the sacrifice that best pleases God?

00:45:28.120 We alluded to that in relationship to the sword that turns every which way and burns,

00:45:35.460 and we alluded to that in the analysis of the sacrifice,

00:45:40.480 the competing sacrifices of Cain and Abel.

00:45:44.360 And we can further our analysis

00:45:48.200 with the story of Abraham.

00:45:54.460 Abraham is the man who's called upon

00:45:56.760 even to sacrifice his son to God.

00:46:02.300 When the spirit that is God characterized

00:46:06.280 comes to Abraham,

00:46:08.520 It comes as the spirit of adventure.

00:46:15.200 Abraham is an old man and not an admirable man when the story begins.

00:46:23.120 That's a relief because it means that the pathway to individual development

00:46:28.680 is available even to those who are not admirable at the beginning.

00:46:35.640 Abraham is an everyman.

00:46:38.000 He's the beneficiary of undeserved privilege.

00:46:45.360 His father and mother are rich.

00:46:49.440 All of what he needs is at his fingertips.

00:46:54.760 And he lives in his father's tent in infantile, satiated comfort for seven decades.

00:47:02.560 Never having to lift a finger.

00:47:05.900 And you might conclude from that, if you were a utopian materialist, that heaven itself had arrived for Abraham as all his needs were met.

00:47:25.520 If all your needs are met, you go to sleep.

00:47:32.140 You have your Christmas dinner.

00:47:35.620 You're around the people you love.

00:47:38.340 There's no challenge that confronts you.

00:47:40.980 There's no purpose for your consciousness.

00:47:43.680 You fall asleep like a satiated infant after the breast.

00:47:48.840 Is that the purpose of your life?

00:47:52.780 That's not what God tells Abraham.

00:47:56.360 God says to Abraham,

00:47:57.980 sacrifice your comfort

00:48:02.360 leave your security

00:48:07.320 move away from your father's tent

00:48:11.180 move away from the people that you know

00:48:14.080 move away from what's familiar

00:48:15.860 and go out voluntarily

00:48:20.240 in good faith and with courage

00:48:23.660 into the terrible world

00:48:28.620 What is the spirit that proclaims that destiny?

00:48:33.120 Is that what you tell your son?

00:48:35.620 Is that what you tell your daughter?

00:48:37.520 Do you say, stay home, dear, for the rest of your life?

00:48:42.460 We'll wrap you in styrofoam.

00:48:45.060 We'll put you in a corner in the basement.

00:48:47.600 We'll feed you with a tube.

00:48:49.240 And you won't have to worry about anything.

00:48:51.720 Or do you say and hope instead that your child determines to take on the challenge of maturity,

00:49:02.320 to face the difficulties of the world, to leave your welcoming home,

00:49:09.340 and to take their chances with their destiny?

00:49:13.220 Well, insofar as you are an incarnation of the spirit of the Benevolent Father,

00:49:21.720 You encourage the acceptance of the voluntary challenge

00:49:26.800 that catalyzes characterological development upward.

00:49:32.600 And that's what the voice of God is for Abraham.

00:49:36.660 The voice that says, leave what's comfortable

00:49:41.040 and take your place in the catastrophe of the world.

00:49:46.960 And it is a catastrophe for Abraham.

00:49:49.520 What does he face?

00:49:50.460 famine first

00:49:52.280 tyranny second

00:49:53.500 then he goes to war

00:49:55.080 the angels of God come to him

00:50:00.400 and tell him that

00:50:01.840 he's to be the prophet

00:50:04.780 to the city

00:50:06.220 threatened with destruction by God

00:50:08.740 then he's called upon to sacrifice

00:50:12.500 his only son

00:50:13.640 there's nothing about

00:50:16.220 the adventure of Abraham

00:50:17.920 that's a burden any less

00:50:21.180 than the hoisting of the crucified burden.

00:50:27.520 But Abraham has the adventure of his life.

00:50:32.560 And he makes the appropriate sacrifices

00:50:35.180 with each adventure.

00:50:37.000 And his character develops so profoundly

00:50:40.140 that it's as if he becomes a new person.

00:50:43.960 And in fact, he starts as Abraham

00:50:46.140 and ends as Abraham.

00:50:48.840 And Abraham is the father of nations.

00:50:52.540 When the spirit of adventure comes to Abraham,

00:50:56.880 it offers him a covenant.

00:51:00.280 The covenant is the relationship with the divine

00:51:03.840 that characterizes the proper sacrificial mode of human existence.

00:51:10.460 God tells Abraham,

00:51:11.980 if you have the courage and the faith

00:51:16.520 to leave the zone of comfort

00:51:20.260 and pursue the adventure of your life

00:51:23.360 this will be your reward

00:51:25.680 your life will be a blessing to you

00:51:29.160 imagine for a moment

00:51:32.360 that you're considering the circumstances of your own life

00:51:36.100 it's three in the morning

00:51:38.940 and you're wrestling with your conscience

00:51:40.820 and maybe not

00:51:42.480 victoriously. You're

00:51:44.700 upbraiding yourself for your failures.

00:51:47.420 You remember those times

00:51:48.780 when you did offer your

00:51:50.800 best and you faced

00:51:52.860 the challenges that were in front of you

00:51:54.840 and that you lived in service

00:51:57.020 to the people

00:51:59.060 you loved and to the higher good

00:52:00.960 and you at least momentarily

00:52:03.180 prevailed and you

00:52:04.880 satisfy yourself

00:52:06.420 in relationship to the acceptability

00:52:09.140 of your own being

00:52:10.700 with the memories of your occasional, proper, sacrificial triumph.

00:52:19.680 God tells Abraham,

00:52:22.120 if you did nothing but abide by the calling of the spirit of adventure,

00:52:28.380 your life would be a blessing to you.

00:52:32.740 If that wasn't true,

00:52:34.720 why would you be pleased when you saw your son or your daughter

00:52:39.040 face the challenges that mature them

00:52:42.460 in a voluntary manner

00:52:44.260 and take on the burden of their own maturity

00:52:47.240 you know in your heart of hearts

00:52:49.980 insofar as you love your children

00:52:52.060 that

00:52:52.920 if they

00:52:56.600 follow their deepest instinct upward

00:52:59.620 that they will turn into

00:53:01.780 the person that you love now

00:53:07.100 and the person you would most admire as an adult.

00:53:10.220 And that's what God offers Abraham.

00:53:13.000 And he establishes an identity.

00:53:15.500 And the identity is the equivalence of the call of the spirit of adventure

00:53:20.040 with the developmental pathway that makes the adventurous sojourner a blessing to himself.

00:53:28.880 But that's not the only offer.

00:53:30.780 God tells Abraham that if he has the adventure of his life

00:53:37.840 instead of falling prey to the infantile temptations of satiation and wealth

00:53:47.060 that his name will become renowned among his peers and for valid reasons.

00:53:54.560 And so not only will he be a blessing to himself

00:53:56.920 the pattern of his life will be such that other people will turn to him

00:54:00.660 as a model for emulation

00:54:04.100 and as a figure of

00:54:05.640 genuine and valid admiration.

00:54:09.440 And so that's a harmonious

00:54:10.840 conjunction

00:54:13.660 of what's best for the individual

00:54:16.560 and best for the social world.

00:54:18.800 To live in a manner that's a blessing to you

00:54:21.080 that is so starkly a blessing

00:54:23.740 that other people recognize it too

00:54:26.460 in the absence of any

00:54:28.280 manipulation or deception.

00:54:30.660 and that's not the only offer

00:54:32.800 God tells Abraham

00:54:34.700 that if he does those two things

00:54:37.000 he'll establish something permanent

00:54:40.860 and of lasting value

00:54:42.760 in Abraham's case

00:54:44.600 a dynasty that makes him

00:54:46.000 that makes his descendants innumerable

00:54:49.220 and that makes him

00:54:50.740 the father of nations

00:54:51.900 that Abraham if he follows

00:54:54.740 the pattern of adventure

00:54:56.160 without reservation

00:54:57.940 and makes the appropriate sacrifices

00:55:00.400 is in consequence, that he'll

00:55:02.300 establish a pattern of being that best

00:55:04.260 ensures that his children will thrive

00:55:06.240 and that their children will thrive

00:55:08.400 and that their children will thrive

00:55:10.400 and multiply and

00:55:12.380 grow until

00:55:13.600 the people

00:55:15.240 who wrestle with God

00:55:18.360 in the most adventurous

00:55:19.880 manner inherit the

00:55:22.380 earth.

00:55:23.760 And that's not the only offer.

00:55:26.880 God tells Abraham if

00:55:28.220 he does all three of those things

00:55:30.320 that he will also live his life in a manner that's maximally beneficial to everyone else.

00:55:36.040 Indicating thereby that the world is a place of adventure that has an infinite potential.

00:55:45.140 That whatever you might garner for yourself in the course of your truly adventurous and upward striving

00:55:52.060 could be created and produced in a manner that did nothing but increase the probability

00:55:59.680 that everyone else could have the same thing.

00:56:02.800 That's the cornucopia of possibility

00:56:06.680 that characterizes the potential

00:56:10.740 that God broods upon at the beginning of time itself

00:56:15.800 and out of which he extracts the natural and man

00:56:21.100 and the social and natural order.

00:56:24.300 And that's the possibility that's in front of you

00:56:27.000 at every moment

00:56:28.160 as a reflection of the image of God.

00:56:32.040 And it's the contending with that possibility

00:56:34.960 that's the dragon fight

00:56:37.120 that reveals the most valuable hidden treasure

00:56:40.760 in the manner that's most adventurous

00:56:43.080 in the pursuit of what's most upward

00:56:46.780 in the establishment of

00:56:48.580 a sacrificial relationship

00:56:51.360 with what's most high.

00:56:54.080 And that's the covenant with

00:56:56.320 God

00:56:58.100 by definition

00:57:00.160 that's the story

00:57:02.920 what's the sacrifice

00:57:12.000 that's represented by Christ

00:57:13.820 there's a story in Exodus

00:57:21.480 this is a miraculous story

00:57:24.120 it's the conjunction of these two stories

00:57:27.220 that's miraculous

00:57:28.020 the Israelites

00:57:31.120 are out in the desert

00:57:32.180 they've sojourned for

00:57:35.140 decades, they're tired

00:57:37.120 and exhausted, they're pining for

00:57:39.180 the tyranny, they're still miserable

00:57:41.360 slaves, they whine

00:57:43.420 and complain bitterly

00:57:45.320 about their fate, they're lost

00:57:47.500 they cease abiding by

00:57:53.320 the dictates of Moses

00:57:54.560 they turn to the worship of

00:57:57.260 false idols

00:57:58.040 and they break their covenant

00:58:03.400 with God

00:58:04.160 who's displeased as a consequence

00:58:07.380 and who sends

00:58:09.640 his miserable

00:58:11.320 and faithless people

00:58:13.000 poisonous snakes

00:58:15.180 to bite them.

00:58:18.660 Why?

00:58:20.540 Because no matter

00:58:21.600 how bad things

00:58:23.700 are for you, there's

00:58:25.680 something stupid you could

00:58:27.600 still do to make it worse.

00:58:31.680 And so you could blame God

00:58:33.500 for sending the snakes, or you could say

00:58:35.740 if you

00:58:37.940 misbehave badly enough,

00:58:40.960 the snakes are

00:58:41.720 certain to come.

00:58:43.820 And that's what happens to the Israelites.

00:58:46.160 And so they're all being bitten

00:58:47.640 by the poisonous snakes.

00:58:49.160 And that makes them desperate enough to turn back to Moses and to ask him to intervene with God.

00:59:00.020 They send a representative to Moses and say,

00:59:04.540 We know you have a pipeline to the divine.

00:59:08.640 We're having a lot of trouble with these snakes that God appears to have sent.

00:59:14.000 Maybe you could put in a good word for the chosen people and get God to call off the snakes.

00:59:23.060 And so Moses, who's also not very happy with the Israelites, agrees yet again to intercede on their behalf

00:59:31.320 and says to God, your people are groaning under their burden of their own sin

00:59:37.360 and the punishment that you have so rightly sent for them.

00:59:41.400 is there something that could be done about the snakes?

00:59:46.100 And God says, yes.

00:59:50.440 And then you might think that the simple solution would be

00:59:55.440 to eliminate all the snakes.

00:59:59.080 But then you might ask yourself,

01:00:00.600 if you were doing the best for your son as he was developing,

01:00:05.320 would you chase away all the snakes and make him safe?

01:00:10.100 Or would you teach him to handle whatever snake came his way?

01:00:16.060 And so God says to Moses, have the Israelites gather up their bronze and make of the bronze a statue.

01:00:25.620 And make the statue the staff of tradition and authority.

01:00:32.280 And put a serpent on the staff.

01:00:34.760 And so the Israelites can gaze on that which would otherwise poison them and become immune.

01:00:50.240 The symbol of healing, the staff of Asclepius, is the serpent and the staff.

01:00:58.640 The pharmakon is a little of the poison that bit you as the cure.

01:01:07.260 The serpent on the staff is the stark fact that

01:01:13.280 if you're willing to voluntarily confront that which is most poisonous,

01:01:21.300 you can become immune to its bite.

01:01:24.780 That's what God tells the Israelites.

01:01:27.820 Look upon that which threatens and poisons you most deeply and prevail.

01:01:39.540 Thousands of years later, Christ tells his followers

01:01:45.660 that for the world to be redeemed, he has to be lifted up

01:01:51.840 like the serpent in the wilderness,

01:01:55.360 like the brazen serpent in the wilderness.

01:01:59.960 Now that's a very strange story.

01:02:04.820 Why would Christ assimilate himself

01:02:07.280 to the poisonous serpent in the desert?

01:02:11.380 Why indeed?

01:02:14.040 Carl Jung described the passion story

01:02:16.880 as the archetypal tragedy.

01:02:19.700 What did he mean?

01:02:21.960 Well, you know that there's a difference

01:02:23.460 between a story that's comedic

01:02:25.300 that has a happy ending

01:02:27.420 and a story that's tragic.

01:02:30.220 A tragic story is something terrible

01:02:32.900 happening to a villain?

01:02:36.100 No.

01:02:37.320 Something terrible that happens to a villain,

01:02:39.820 that's a story of justice.

01:02:41.980 A tragedy is a story

01:02:43.360 of something terrible happening

01:02:45.080 to someone who's innocent.

01:02:46.660 So what's the most intense

01:02:50.840 possible tragedy?

01:02:53.500 What tragedy would you present if you took all the tragedy of the world and distilled it into the ultimate tragedy?

01:03:05.160 The ultimate tragedy would be the worst possible suffering of the most innocent possible person.

01:03:16.380 And that's the passion story.

01:03:19.140 What's the worst possible suffering?

01:03:21.300 death

01:03:25.860 death when young

01:03:29.620 the worst

01:03:33.060 imaginable painful death

01:03:34.960 invented by the tyrant to torture

01:03:37.060 you into submission

01:03:38.720 culminating in your

01:03:41.140 death with when young

01:03:42.820 in front of the mother

01:03:45.140 who loves you deeply

01:03:46.300 in consequence of the

01:03:49.020 betrayal by your best friend

01:03:50.680 while you're abandoned by the disciples

01:03:54.060 that have seen you do miraculous things,

01:03:58.040 while being pursued by the mob of your own people

01:04:01.360 who choose your painful death

01:04:04.360 over the punishment of a criminal

01:04:07.520 who they know to be a criminal

01:04:09.740 even when they know you're innocent

01:04:12.280 and not only innocent but someone who's done nothing but good,

01:04:16.720 while that mob is dominated by

01:04:19.100 a foreign tyranny that worships power.

01:04:26.840 The worst possible fate for the least possibly deserving person.

01:04:31.960 And that's not all.

01:04:33.260 Because death, no matter how painful and unjust,

01:04:38.220 is not the worst thing that human beings have to face.

01:04:43.620 After Christ's crucifixion,

01:04:46.020 He descends into hell, like Jonah, and confronts malevolence itself, and emerges victorious.

01:04:58.000 What does it mean?

01:05:00.220 The pathway to redemption is the voluntary confrontation with the worst possible death and the spirit of evil itself.

01:05:10.100 Why?

01:05:12.140 Well, how else could it possibly work?

01:05:14.920 how are you going to get through life

01:05:17.360 productively

01:05:19.960 happily

01:05:21.720 as a benefit to other people

01:05:23.700 as a man or woman who could establish

01:05:26.080 something permanent

01:05:26.960 if you are too afraid

01:05:30.020 to face the reality of your own

01:05:32.460 suffering and death

01:05:33.500 if you run from that

01:05:35.720 how are you going to cope with that

01:05:37.880 if you run from it

01:05:38.720 you can't cope from anything by running from it

01:05:42.080 and then that's bad enough

01:05:44.560 but there's the reality of evil too,

01:05:46.520 which is, if anything, worse than death.

01:05:49.860 If you could choose your own death

01:05:51.820 as an alternative to the suffering of the people you love

01:05:57.380 at the hands of the most evil person you could imagine,

01:06:00.080 which would you pick?

01:06:02.900 Insofar as you have people you love,

01:06:04.620 you'd pick your own death in a heartbeat.

01:06:06.480 That's what it means to be a parent.

01:06:09.220 What that means is that there are worse evils than death.

01:06:14.560 And what that means is that there are worse things about life than suffering and death.

01:06:19.420 And what that means is that not only do we have to confront suffering and death,

01:06:25.500 but we have to stand up against evil itself.

01:06:28.480 And that's why Christ is the sacrificial model for Western civilization.

01:06:33.920 And there's no way around that, as far as I can tell.

01:06:39.140 if the integrity of the psyche is dependent on maturation and sacrifice

01:06:46.620 and the sanctity of the marriage is dependent on the mutual sacrifice of wife and husband

01:06:53.340 and the stability and productivity of the family is dependent on the sacrifice of the parents

01:07:00.580 and the community is dependent on the sacrifice of the families

01:07:05.120 and so on all the way up the hierarchy to the sacrifice that's most pleasing to God,

01:07:13.720 then it's the willingness to shoulder the burden of the ultimate sacrifice

01:07:18.780 that reconciles what's highest and man.

01:07:24.280 And that's the story of the crucifixion

01:07:28.700 and the call to the followers of Christ

01:07:32.840 to pick up their cross

01:07:35.620 and follow the redeeming hero.

01:07:40.260 Thereby, what?

01:07:42.260 Becoming a leader in the style of Moses,

01:07:45.420 becoming a king in the style of David,

01:07:48.380 becoming the Israelite in the desert

01:07:53.100 who has the courage to gaze upon the form of the serpent

01:07:57.620 that poisons him.

01:08:00.960 What have we done in the West?

01:08:04.520 I went to the

01:08:06.120 Church of the Holy Sepulcher

01:08:09.120 in Jerusalem.

01:08:10.220 The church that was founded

01:08:11.720 by the Emperor Constantine's mother

01:08:14.420 on the site of Christ's crucifixion.

01:08:17.700 At the center of the cathedral,

01:08:21.320 there's an altar.

01:08:22.800 At the center of an altar,

01:08:24.120 the altar, there's a cross.

01:08:25.500 At the center of the cross is the individual who determines to face the worst that the world has to offer.

01:08:34.900 And who discovers in so doing that he's accompanied by God in consequence.

01:08:43.160 The altar is the center of the church.

01:08:45.740 The church is the center of the town.

01:08:50.040 Civilization itself in its Western form

01:08:53.520 is predicated on our worship

01:08:57.820 of the central sacrifice upon which

01:09:01.020 the integrity of the psyche

01:09:03.320 and the productive stability of the community

01:09:06.780 is necessarily founded.

01:09:10.740 There's no...

01:09:13.320 What's the alternative to that?

01:09:15.240 the idea that your second rate offerings are going to be accepted

01:09:19.920 the notion that you can pull the wool over your own eyes

01:09:23.940 and the eyes of your fellow man and society and God himself

01:09:28.220 the notion that there's no up whatsoever

01:09:31.520 in which case you're in Cain's situation with no ideal

01:09:36.440 and wandering unconsciously in the land of isolated eternal suffering

01:09:41.440 or you're possessed by the spirit of Cain

01:09:45.120 that's resentful and bitter

01:09:46.400 that shakes its fist at God

01:09:48.100 that becomes murderous and then genocidal.

01:09:52.580 Those don't, those what?

01:09:54.360 Those are the pathways to hell

01:09:56.260 that are the alternative to the pathway to heaven.

01:09:59.280 And what's the pathway to heaven?

01:10:00.480 The straight and narrow path, right?

01:10:03.480 Well, why straight?

01:10:07.620 Because a lot has to go before you walk that pathway.

01:10:10.520 Because a lot has to be offered up before you're an imitator of Christ.

01:10:16.760 That's for sure.

01:10:18.260 Is the possibility that God's will could be done on earth as it is in heaven,

01:10:26.300 dependent on your willingness to participate in that process of sacrifice?

01:10:31.760 That's the story.

01:10:33.980 That's why there's an insistence in Western culture

01:10:37.960 that you're made in the image of God,

01:10:41.000 that you have the rights of someone

01:10:43.220 who has an alliance with what's of highest value.

01:10:49.540 That's why you have the responsibility

01:10:51.160 to shoulder the burden of your own governance

01:10:54.000 that's associated with the idea that

01:10:57.040 sovereignty is inherent in each of us as individuals.

01:11:01.880 do we believe that each of us

01:11:06.780 is a locale of divine worth

01:11:08.440 how do you want to be treated by your wife

01:11:11.200 how does she want to be treated by you

01:11:14.600 how do your children want to be treated by you

01:11:16.780 do they want to be treated as if they're

01:11:19.800 mortal loci of divine value

01:11:24.780 will they be more than pleased to

01:11:28.500 have to do with you if that's how you treat them

01:11:31.500 Will they turn away from you as if you're a tyrant or someone who's utterly useless in your hedonistic stupidity if you treat them in some alternate manner?

01:11:42.700 How about with regard to how you treat yourself?

01:11:47.100 Are you in concordance with your own conscience when you forthrightly bear the burden of your destiny and you do that voluntarily in good faith and with courage?

01:12:01.500 Or do you admire yourself when you're whiny and bitter and resentful and murderous and genocidal?

01:12:11.300 Is that true?

01:12:15.320 Well, that's what the biblical stories indicate.

01:12:19.080 Do we believe that?

01:12:22.200 Well, the proof of that is in our action.

01:12:26.780 What does Christ say at the end of time?

01:12:29.100 the worst of all eternal punishments

01:12:33.340 is reserved for the people

01:12:34.560 who sit on the fence

01:12:35.640 do we believe

01:12:38.320 well if we're nihilistic

01:12:43.220 and resentful

01:12:44.000 then we believe in the spirit

01:12:45.500 that shakes its fist at God

01:12:48.040 and eternally rebels

01:12:49.880 if we believe in

01:12:52.700 the eternal logos

01:12:54.640 then we confront

01:12:56.020 the terrible combination

01:12:58.360 of dragon and treasure

01:12:59.820 that's the potential chaos around us

01:13:02.800 and we take the burden for our life

01:13:04.980 on our own shoulders.

01:13:06.260 Those are the options.

01:13:07.640 Or we waver in the middle, stupidly,

01:13:09.780 trying to play both ends against the middle.

01:13:13.100 Those are all positions of faith.

01:13:15.260 They're all positions of belief.

01:13:17.200 There's no escape from faith.

01:13:19.380 There's no escape from belief.

01:13:21.820 An ignorant person has to make

01:13:23.480 his way forward with faith.

01:13:25.800 Faith in what?

01:13:27.560 The biblical stories call us to faith in the logos that establish divine order at the beginning of time

01:13:36.060 in consequence of the decision to take the full weight of the catastrophe of existence on itself.

01:13:45.200 And that's the image in whose, that's the image, that's the God in whose image you're hypothetically made.

01:13:53.000 and so what's the

01:13:55.080 moral of the biblical story

01:13:57.260 act like it

01:13:59.560 thank you very much

01:14:23.000 Thank you, everyone.

01:14:44.240 Thank you.

01:14:50.860 Thank you.

01:14:53.000 Thank you for your patience and your willingness to listen to that.

01:15:01.360 I'm going to invite my wife, Tammy, back on the stage,

01:15:04.420 and we're going to answer some questions.

01:15:17.660 Thank you.

01:15:20.620 Okay.

01:15:23.000 Do you need a minute?

01:15:25.980 No, I think we can continue.

01:15:28.080 All right.

01:15:35.020 Let's see.

01:15:43.500 Okay, here's one.

01:15:45.900 You've expressed the importance of myths that shape our society.

01:15:50.040 would you ever consider writing fiction

01:15:52.320 to contribute to our damaged cultural

01:15:54.420 narrative

01:15:55.220 I wrote a fairy tale

01:16:04.500 a modified version

01:16:06.480 of a Grimm's brother fairy tale

01:16:08.180 called Water of Life

01:16:09.360 I made a musical screenplay out of that

01:16:11.920 and we're working

01:16:14.140 at the moment on about a dozen

01:16:16.040 songs that are associated with that

01:16:18.100 so that's one answer of yes to that and you may remember that I started working on a film

01:16:25.480 on a noir detective novel at one point too I read it to your I read it to your family at Christmas

01:16:32.860 I didn't go over very well yeah it's a little on the dark side you might say um yeah I suppose if

01:16:42.380 I wasn't doing this I would engage myself in endeavors that were more creative and artistic

01:16:52.420 and I have a facility for writing musical plays and foolish poetry for children and

01:17:02.060 possibly very dark detective novels and that would be very entertaining and maybe

01:17:11.400 the time for that will come

01:17:14.320 but

01:17:14.680 who knows what the future will bring

01:17:19.060 at the moment

01:17:20.140 this seems to be

01:17:22.320 you need the luxury to do that

01:17:26.380 you know

01:17:26.760 and to have that luxury

01:17:29.120 you have to be living in a time where

01:17:31.720 it's reasonable to isolate yourself

01:17:35.360 from the broader concerns of society

01:17:37.760 and devote yourself

01:17:39.980 to your private concerns

01:17:42.600 and that's not the situation

01:17:44.440 that we're in at the moment

01:17:45.660 so

01:17:46.940 until

01:17:50.280 I'm

01:17:52.200 satisfied that

01:17:56.220 all hell is not about to break loose

01:18:00.520 my plan

01:18:04.420 and my wife's plan

01:18:06.020 and my family's plan is to

01:18:08.160 continue

01:18:08.780 doing what we're doing

01:18:11.120 and leave the

01:18:12.540 more enjoyable, creative,

01:18:16.080 purely creative

01:18:16.960 endeavors

01:18:17.860 aside until

01:18:20.760 God willing, the time comes

01:18:25.220 that that's the appropriate pursuit.

01:18:38.780 Julian just recorded

01:18:41.220 an album

01:18:42.780 our son Julian just recorded an album

01:18:45.860 it's a little

01:18:48.020 dark too though I'd say

01:18:49.300 but

01:18:51.620 that should come out

01:18:53.040 Tammy and I have recorded a fair bit of music

01:18:56.240 the piece of music that will

01:18:58.080 close this show is one of the pieces

01:19:00.220 we recorded and

01:19:01.280 I'm going to be working with the musician

01:19:04.100 Victor Swift who started this show

01:19:06.440 on some music

01:19:08.200 in the summer and we have a bit of an opportunity now that this tour is coming to its current

01:19:15.580 conclusion to play in the fictional and creative realm and so you know there's it's very fun to do

01:19:27.800 that it's extremely engaging and we'll have some time to do it so sometime that's good that's a

01:19:35.040 better than no time so and we'll make hay while the sun shines and so yeah that's right if you

01:19:44.080 were going to be a first time father which you were you were a first time father uh a right-wing

01:19:51.120 father i don't know if you were a right-wing father by reputation yes by reputation how would

01:19:59.220 you prepare your children to face the woke slash left-wing culture well stay married to your wife

01:20:11.700 well that's that's that's the first answer you know um a huge element of the woke culture is

01:20:21.200 the more pathological elements

01:20:26.940 of the pride display.

01:20:28.520 How about we put it that way?

01:20:30.500 The notion that

01:20:31.500 you can do

01:20:33.880 whatever you want

01:20:35.800 with whoever you want.

01:20:38.540 Whenever the hell you want,

01:20:40.760 the consequences be damned.

01:20:43.400 And that's

01:20:44.000 an insanely immature attitude

01:20:47.000 combined with

01:20:49.460 so it's an infantile

01:20:52.460 and it's a toddler like attitude

01:20:54.420 with the addition of sexual

01:20:56.500 motivation

01:20:57.100 and

01:20:58.700 it's not

01:21:01.220 there's nothing about it

01:21:04.480 that works

01:21:05.140 the people who have the most sex

01:21:08.440 are married religious couples

01:21:10.060 so

01:21:12.160 you can tell your children that

01:21:14.660 or you could

01:21:16.540 act it out

01:21:17.320 you know with some

01:21:19.440 due caution

01:21:22.160 stay married to your wife

01:21:26.120 see if you can figure out

01:21:28.280 how to continue being in love with her

01:21:30.080 play together

01:21:32.080 model that for your kids

01:21:34.280 they're going to want

01:21:36.280 that a lot more than

01:21:37.320 whatever idiot hedonistic

01:21:39.620 malevolence is

01:21:41.600 forced upon

01:21:44.440 them by the dimwits

01:21:46.460 of the radical left

01:21:47.720 so

01:21:49.520 example

01:21:53.420 there's nothing more important than example

01:21:55.980 what else

01:21:57.980 regular meals with your kids

01:22:02.120 that's a good idea

01:22:03.460 read to them at bedtime

01:22:06.940 so you establish that

01:22:08.340 time

01:22:09.160 to

01:22:10.580 educate them

01:22:12.680 to attend to them

01:22:14.280 to teach them to read

01:22:15.300 to teach them to be literate

01:22:17.280 and then keep an eye on them.

01:22:20.280 Teach them to deal with serpents.

01:22:23.100 Play with them.

01:22:24.620 Fathers are very good at that.

01:22:26.720 Fathers are the adventurous spirit of play.

01:22:29.720 Wrestle with them.

01:22:31.180 Toughen them up.

01:22:32.520 Challenge them.

01:22:33.680 Set high standards.

01:22:35.620 Don't let them get away with anything.

01:22:38.100 But not because you're

01:22:39.260 the cruel voice of conscience

01:22:41.180 but because

01:22:42.120 look we used to take our kids to restaurants when they were little

01:22:46.920 and they didn't run around like mad hyenas making fools of themselves and the reason for that was

01:22:56.420 because we didn't want people to respond to them as if they were misbehaving fools

01:23:01.680 we wanted people to be pleased with them and to be impressed by them in the manner that

01:23:09.420 God promised Abraham he would be impressive if he conducted himself properly.

01:23:18.400 It was typical when we took our kids to restaurants that at the end of our meals,

01:23:26.600 other couples, other people in the restaurant would come up and say nice things to the children.

01:23:33.340 Because they sat there and acted like civilized human beings,

01:23:37.040 even when they were 18 months old.

01:23:41.340 You couldn't ask them to do that for two hours.

01:23:45.100 But you could ask them to do that for 45 minutes.

01:23:48.120 And they learned how to do that.

01:23:49.800 And there was nothing in that, about that, that wasn't good.

01:23:56.740 I wrote a chapter in my first book.

01:23:59.500 The title was,

01:24:00.540 Do Not Allow Your Children to Do Anything

01:24:03.060 That Makes You Dislike Them.

01:24:05.820 And that's a very straightforward rule.

01:24:09.100 If your kids are acting up and you're displeased,

01:24:12.800 well, maybe you're a patriarchal tyrant.

01:24:16.080 So you could go ask your wife.

01:24:18.940 You could say,

01:24:20.700 Dear, that son of yours is annoying me.

01:24:28.300 Is that because I'm a patriarchal son of a bitch

01:24:31.500 or because he's a little bastard?

01:24:35.820 And then it's up to your wife to say,

01:24:39.040 well, you are a little cruel these days, and you could shape up,

01:24:43.240 or that little rat is also annoying me.

01:24:49.940 In which case you could conclude that if your child is annoying both of you,

01:24:55.600 despite the fact that you hypothetically love him,

01:24:59.420 he would probably be annoying other people, which isn't good for him.

01:25:04.880 So that should be brought to a halt.

01:25:08.960 And so then you do, you employ whatever minimal force is necessary to say no

01:25:17.800 and to ensure that he doesn't make a spectacle of himself.

01:25:25.180 My son, Julian, who's a very civilized person and also a very tough person,

01:25:32.000 was an ornery little two-year-old.

01:25:36.220 He was quite insistent that he get his way.

01:25:44.640 And it took a fair bit of wrestling

01:25:47.120 to help him learn to manage his will.

01:25:53.160 But he did.

01:25:56.080 And because of that, we could rely on his judgment

01:25:59.900 from the time he was three and that's never changed and so and it was a pleasure to be

01:26:08.440 around him and it didn't take that much it wasn't that much trouble it was nowhere near

01:26:15.180 as much trouble as not doing it we didn't say no that often but when we said no what we meant was

01:26:24.540 If you continue doing that, something you do not like will happen to you with 100% probability.

01:26:37.500 Right, and that's what no means.

01:26:39.760 And if that's the rod of iron behind your no, then when you say no, you get listened to.

01:26:48.740 And then you don't have to say it that often.

01:26:51.820 And so, that's what I would recommend to a new father.

01:26:56.780 Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them.

01:27:02.900 If you do not like your children, you will be cruel to them.

01:27:05.960 And so, you regulate your child's behavior so they don't have to encounter the monstrous part of you.

01:27:18.520 Accidentally.

01:27:19.360 at the worst possible time.

01:27:23.820 Right.

01:27:36.400 This is not a question,

01:27:38.480 just a big thank you

01:27:39.700 for being the light in the darkness

01:27:43.120 and for being the voice

01:27:45.240 that my generation needs,

01:27:47.040 a big hug from the benches.

01:27:49.360 You Mexicans.

01:28:14.580 Okay, question.

01:28:15.960 What advice would you give to someone whose little sister is saying she's trans?

01:28:22.940 What is the best way to proceed as an older sister?

01:28:40.260 Well, I think part of what you do is you do two things.

01:28:44.100 you let her know in no uncertain terms

01:28:47.140 that she is not to do anything that harms herself

01:28:49.220 that that is not acceptable

01:28:52.960 no dressing like the opposite sex

01:28:58.420 no hormones

01:29:00.900 no puberty blockers

01:29:03.820 and no butchering surgery

01:29:07.520 that means war

01:29:11.380 right no that is not happening no matter what

01:29:17.640 any child that is poking around in that satanic realm

01:29:27.180 is testing to see if anyone cares enough to stop her hey

01:29:36.920 there's an actress in the U.S.

01:29:43.200 Ellen

01:29:43.660 Page

01:29:45.560 my understanding

01:29:50.820 of Ellen Page is that she was

01:29:52.740 quite badly brutalized

01:29:54.420 as a child actress

01:29:56.140 that is not rare

01:29:58.780 what's the consequence

01:30:01.020 she came to hate her own

01:30:04.840 sexuality

01:30:05.640 and no one ever loved her enough

01:30:11.800 to protect her properly.

01:30:15.780 That's a catastrophe.

01:30:17.660 What's the consequence?

01:30:18.960 She cut off her breasts.

01:30:22.040 No one loved her enough to stop that.

01:30:26.840 You have a sister?

01:30:29.160 You need to let her know that

01:30:31.580 she is loved

01:30:36.320 and that she is not to hurt herself

01:30:39.300 because she's valuable

01:30:41.820 and that she has the trouble

01:30:45.960 that young girls have

01:30:47.820 and that she's to confront those

01:30:51.640 and face them and accept them

01:30:53.420 and welcome them

01:30:54.540 in the same courageous spirit

01:31:00.240 that mary accepted the challenge from god when she found that she was pregnant to

01:31:05.760 not only reconcile herself to the fact of her femininity but to welcome it

01:31:12.440 and to be a model as a sister for doing that and but then again to ally that with absolute

01:31:21.740 100 unshakable resolve to burn everything to the ground to stop the butchery right

01:31:29.920 what's your advice for mexicans that want to be and do good in a country where murder

01:31:48.400 violence and corruption is the norm well you know i talked about that to tonight i mean

01:31:56.840 when jacob jacob becomes israel right as his character transforms he transforms so completely

01:32:09.220 that he becomes a new person and he becomes the progenitor of those who wrestle with god

01:32:16.200 that's jacob jacob is not a good guy when he starts out he is a lying manipulative

01:32:24.620 self-satisfied

01:32:27.660 intellectual

01:32:29.240 tent dwelling

01:32:30.320 mama's boy

01:32:32.700 that's what he is

01:32:35.460 he deceives

01:32:39.660 his father

01:32:40.240 and

01:32:43.040 manipulates

01:32:45.660 his brother out of his

01:32:47.620 rightful inheritance

01:32:49.300 and because of that

01:32:50.920 he has to run from his home

01:32:53.560 although you could imagine

01:32:56.720 that that's a relief for Jacob

01:32:58.940 because he gets away from his mother

01:33:00.500 and on the way to his uncle

01:33:04.420 he has a dream

01:33:06.620 and the dream is of Jacob's ladder

01:33:10.260 this spiral upward that

01:33:12.000 has God at its pinnacle

01:33:14.060 with the angels from God

01:33:16.700 moving up and down on the pathway

01:33:19.100 to heaven

01:33:20.540 and he wakes up and he builds an altar

01:33:27.180 and he

01:33:27.980 makes a vow to God

01:33:30.500 to

01:33:31.960 journey up the

01:33:34.060 ladder to heaven

01:33:36.720 what does that mean?

01:33:39.780 it means that

01:33:41.100 he decides

01:33:43.180 to

01:33:43.600 turn away from his

01:33:46.660 iniquity and to become good

01:33:49.920 What does that mean for you?

01:33:52.660 It means that you could decide to do that.

01:33:55.620 You could decide to do good.

01:33:59.580 How?

01:34:01.420 Well, in the biblical stories, the way you become good, you could say, is the Old Testament way and then the New Testament way.

01:34:10.200 The Old Testament way is thou shalt not.

01:34:13.160 The commandments.

01:34:14.460 Stop doing the things you know are stupid.

01:34:16.700 and it's a game in a way you can play with yourself it's like you can look at your life

01:34:22.640 you can talk to your conscience you can decide what you're doing that's counterproductive and

01:34:27.940 wrong by your own standards of evaluation and then you can see which of those things you would be

01:34:35.620 able to change maybe and then you can change them and then every time you make that sacrifice

01:34:42.400 and you shed a little bit of dead wood

01:34:45.740 or you allow it to be burned off,

01:34:47.960 then you're a little wiser

01:34:49.920 and you can see a little more clearly

01:34:51.480 and you can see what else might have to go.

01:34:54.940 You can see that if your eye offends you

01:34:57.880 that it should be plucked out.

01:35:01.920 And then maybe you can get to the point

01:35:04.040 where you can not only stop doing what's bad,

01:35:07.300 but you could start doing what's good,

01:35:09.140 which is really what Christ calls upon people to do.

01:35:14.800 He talks to the rich young man who says to him,

01:35:20.060 Lord, I have been a devout follower of the commandments.

01:35:25.800 I honor my parents. I keep the commandments.

01:35:28.880 But my life is still insufficient.

01:35:32.940 and Christ says to him

01:35:35.000 you must sell everything you have

01:35:38.340 and follow me

01:35:39.440 and Christ's disciples say

01:35:41.640 if that's the price of salvation

01:35:43.600 then no one is willing to pay it

01:35:45.240 and people read that as if it's an anti-capitalist screed

01:35:50.040 that's the liberation theology take let's say

01:35:53.800 and that isn't what it means at all

01:35:55.480 it means that

01:35:56.800 if you've stopped doing what's wrong

01:36:03.620 and

01:36:03.980 you're not doing enough of what's right

01:36:07.680 to be engaged in your life

01:36:12.000 then you have to radically change

01:36:15.080 what you're doing

01:36:17.180 and you have to give up everything

01:36:19.440 that's an impediment to your progress forward

01:36:21.980 and

01:36:22.300 for the rich young man

01:36:25.020 Christ's diagnosis

01:36:26.660 was that his wealth was bringing him misery

01:36:30.480 and not buying for him entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

01:36:38.040 So what does that mean practically?

01:36:40.760 You want to fight the tyrant like Moses?

01:36:44.740 You want to stand up for the slave like Moses?

01:36:48.240 Get your house in order.

01:36:50.820 How do you do that?

01:36:52.180 Start with yourself.

01:36:53.140 stop doing the stupid things that you're doing that you know are stupid

01:36:58.000 start doing the things that you know are good

01:37:00.400 pursue that religiously

01:37:04.320 and then you'll learn how to

01:37:08.080 set things in order

01:37:10.160 beyond the confines of your own soul

01:37:12.640 beyond the dynamics of your relationship with your wife

01:37:16.940 beyond the stabilization of your own family

01:37:19.480 maybe you'll become enough of a person

01:37:22.040 so that having put what's right in front of you

01:37:27.280 in order, you have something more to offer

01:37:30.840 to everyone else.

01:37:34.740 So, one step at a time,

01:37:38.360 you want to turn yourself into the person

01:37:40.220 whose words ring true.

01:37:43.620 And those are the people that no tyrant can stand against.

01:37:47.360 that's the man who goes to

01:37:50.340 the court of the Pharaoh

01:37:52.220 and says God commanded me to

01:37:54.320 say to you

01:37:55.080 let my people go

01:37:58.060 so they may be

01:37:59.860 so they may worship me in the desert

01:38:02.220 what does that mean

01:38:04.020 it doesn't mean let my people

01:38:06.380 go so they can have a

01:38:08.340 naked orgy while

01:38:10.120 worshiping the golden calf

01:38:11.940 it means let my

01:38:14.240 people go so they can

01:38:17.360 Adopt the mature sacrificial attitude that establishes the state that does not require a king or a slave.

01:38:25.760 How do you participate in that?

01:38:28.720 By standing up against your own tyranny, by standing up against the tyranny in your marriage and in your family, in your community, in the state,

01:38:38.740 by sacrificing your slavish habits

01:38:44.200 by attending to what calls to you

01:38:48.000 by establishing a relationship with your conscience

01:38:50.780 and by becoming a leader

01:38:52.820 and if enough people do that

01:38:56.200 the tyrants will vanish

01:39:00.580 and the slaves will be free

01:39:02.640 so you all know that I think

01:39:07.380 at some level or you wouldn't be here tonight

01:39:09.960 listening to this.

01:39:13.700 You're here because something is calling to you.

01:39:17.260 And so I would say,

01:39:19.880 get at it.

01:39:23.680 There's tyrants that need to be confronted

01:39:27.680 and slaves that need to be freed.

01:39:29.800 And you might be one of the tyrants

01:39:31.760 and one of the slaves.

01:39:33.860 So you could start with yourself.

01:39:36.020 all right everybody

01:39:45.040 thank you very much it was very nice to be here

01:39:51.600 pleasure to see you all thank you Tim

01:39:55.460 my pleasure

01:39:56.200 thanks for coming

01:40:06.460 thank you very much for coming tonight

01:40:08.700 thank you my dear

01:40:10.620 thank you for the poster

01:40:13.680 good to see you all

01:40:16.520 thank you

01:40:21.120 good night everybody

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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - August 02, 2026

How to Stop Sabotaging Your Own Life

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