The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Jerusalem & the Axis Mundi ｜ Foundations of the West Episode I with Ben Shapiro

00:00:00.520 Last year, Daily Wire Plus and I released a fantastic series on the origins of Western culture entitled Foundations of the West.

00:00:09.480 This series had a tremendously positive impact.

00:00:13.140 Because of this, The Daily Wire and I have decided to share the first episode with you, free of charge.

00:00:20.020 You're about to watch episode one.

00:00:21.680 In it, Ben Shapiro and I discuss the lasting impact Jerusalem has made on Western culture, bridging the gap between man and God. 0.53

00:00:31.200 The rest of the five-part docuseries is available exclusively on Daily Wire Plus.

00:00:36.700 There you'll find all episodes, as well as additional bonus content.

00:00:41.480 I traveled alongside my esteemed colleagues through the ancient cities of Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome, cities that have shaped Western culture.

00:00:50.560 I invite you to watch them.

00:00:52.900 My hope is that when you do so, you learn something deep and profound, as I did, about our Western ideals.

00:00:59.820 It was a very worthwhile journey.

00:01:02.520 On to a celebratory note.

00:01:04.360 I'm pleased to announce that episode three of this series, Christ, Center of the World, with my good friend Jonathan Pajot,

00:01:11.840 has been nominated for Best Documentary at the 32nd Annual Movie Guide, Faith and Values Awards Gala.

00:01:19.400 I'm told that the nominating committee pays special attention to content that inspires and gives hope to our society at large.

00:01:28.280 That's exactly what we aim to do with this series, and to be recognized for that is a great honor,

00:01:34.400 for which I and the entire Daily Wire team are truly thankful.

00:01:37.660 You can watch the entire series on DailyWire.com slash Foundations of the West.

00:01:44.760 Give it a go.

00:01:46.020 It might propel you to greater adventure.

00:01:48.580 Thank you for your time, attention, and your continued support of my work and of Daily Wire Plus.

00:01:54.060 Western civilization rests on three mighty pillars.

00:02:11.500 Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome.

00:02:14.480 Jerusalem offered a morality based in the spiritual world.

00:02:17.400 Athens concentrated more particularly on the logos revealed in the material domain.

00:02:24.540 Rome offered the advantages and perils of power, empire, and reach.

00:02:29.660 I'm joined on the first part of my journey by the redoubtable Ben Shapiro.

00:02:34.200 We discuss the origins of the conflict between, and eventual integration of, the spiritual with the scientific and material.

00:02:43.480 The history of Western civilization begins in Jerusalem.

00:02:47.980 The history of Western civilization begins in Jerusalem.

00:03:17.980 The history of Western civilization begins in Jerusalem.

00:03:47.960 converged on the idea that the central reality of the world

00:03:52.460 was something like an animating spirit.

00:03:56.440 Where's the Garden of Gethsemane?

00:03:58.560 That's here.

00:03:59.940 Where the church is, yeah, this whole area is the Gardens of Gethsemane.

00:04:04.500 Jerusalem is the birthplace of Western civilization.

00:04:06.820 It's the first place where people seriously start to think

00:04:09.640 in a communal way about the idea

00:04:11.880 that there is a set of godly values that rests above human authority.

00:04:16.380 There's probably no difference between the emergence of monotheism

00:04:20.280 and the spread of civilization.

00:04:23.780 Because people might say,

00:04:25.140 well, why is it so necessary that there is a god?

00:04:28.360 The answer to that is because there has to be a central animating spirit.

00:04:32.000 And then you might ask is, well, why does there have to be one god?

00:04:35.300 And the answer is because you don't have unity

00:04:37.400 without worshipping the same god.

00:04:40.600 You have to be doing the same thing.

00:04:42.120 You have to be possessed by the same spirit.

00:04:43.920 But the eternal Jewish question is,

00:04:46.660 what is the proper nature of that central animating spirit?

00:04:50.760 And the Bible is actually an answer to that question.

00:04:53.900 In order to truly understand the modern day conflict in the Middle East,

00:04:56.880 this is a great view because what you see is that

00:04:58.440 everything is right on top of each other.

00:05:00.380 And so when you look across the landscape,

00:05:02.080 you can see the Temple Mount up and to the left.

00:05:05.060 And then you move toward the Mount of Olives

00:05:07.840 and you're looking at Jewish graves going back centuries.

00:05:10.580 And then you move a little bit to your right

00:05:12.800 and you're going to see an Arab village

00:05:15.040 that used to be a Jewish village.

00:05:16.460 They have very small pockets of places where Jews are living

00:05:18.560 protected by barbed wire.

00:05:19.760 Everything is right on top of each other.

00:05:21.500 And so whenever people suggest, well, you know,

00:05:23.300 just a quick population separation and you're done.

00:05:25.220 It's not quite that simple.

00:05:26.060 All the geography here is high resolution.

00:05:30.480 Everything is marked.

00:05:31.820 Everything is half territory and half map.

00:05:34.880 Everything.

00:05:36.220 So there's no wonder there's so much conflict.

00:05:38.920 When you say high resolution, it's also just,

00:05:40.780 everything is just geographically incredibly close together.

00:05:43.540 When people say East Jerusalem, they mean like this, is that.

00:05:47.000 Right.

00:05:47.480 Like here's the old city and here David and that's East Jerusalem.

00:05:50.600 Yeah, well, it's kind of reminiscent of Manhattan that way.

00:05:53.880 Exactly.

00:05:55.340 Except here everything's 3,000 years old.

00:05:57.400 Yeah, right, right.

00:05:58.180 It's crazy.

00:05:58.780 You don't realize how new America and Western civilization is

00:06:01.080 in the Anglo-American history is so new compared to biblical history.

00:06:05.200 It's amazing.

00:06:06.080 It's even true of European history.

00:06:07.560 Most of the places we think of it as old in Europe are like 300 years old.

00:06:11.540 Right, exactly.

00:06:12.100 500 years old.

00:06:13.220 In America, the entire history of the country, it's like,

00:06:14.960 oh my gosh, I visited Plymouth Rock.

00:06:16.520 Wow, that's 400 years old.

00:06:18.280 Like, well, over here that's like a house that somebody built five seconds ago.

00:06:22.240 Right, right, right.

00:06:23.880 They did map out the biblical road that the fathers in the Bible travel.

00:06:28.440 Like where Abraham came and he's like wandered down in this direction,

00:06:31.540 ended up up there with the sacrifice of Isaac.

00:06:34.320 I took Jordan Peterson to the Temple Mount because it's perceived as the foundation stone for

00:06:41.880 the building of the world according to Jewish theology.

00:06:44.400 So we're now at the holiest site on Earth for Jews.

00:06:53.360 The third holiest site for Muslims is Al-Aqsa, which is this mosque right here.

00:06:57.120 This is certainly the most contentious area on planet Earth.

00:07:01.680 So if you go back about 3,000 years, the Temple Mount is created by flattening part of the top of the mountain

00:07:07.920 and then building retaining walls and filling all of that with dirt,

00:07:10.740 which is how you end up with this about three-football field-sized giant area.

00:07:15.360 And that's where the original first temple stood.

00:07:17.280 It was destroyed in 576 BCE, and then it was rebuilt about 70 years later,

00:07:23.660 and that stands for about half a millennium.

00:07:26.840 And then that is destroyed in 70 CE, approximately 1,000 years later or so.

00:07:32.740 The Dome of the Rock is built directly on top of where the Holy of Holies would have been

00:07:37.160 and where the foundation stone is located.

00:07:40.320 This is where Muslims believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven in his dream.

00:07:44.080 He used this rock as sort of the launching off point, ascending to heaven.

00:07:47.700 And that foundation stone is visible.

00:07:49.820 You can walk into Dome of the Rock, and you can actually see that.

00:07:52.760 In sort of Jewish theology, the foundation stone is the idea that God used this stone as the basis for all creation.

00:07:59.000 It's called in Latin the axis mundi.

00:08:01.180 The idea that there is a spiritual center to the world,

00:08:04.280 that's what we mean when we say this is the foundation stone.

00:08:07.160 So there are a couple of ideas that this place is the actual mountain

00:08:10.860 on which Abraham is about to sacrifice Isaac,

00:08:13.540 which, of course, is sort of a seminal point in the Bible.

00:08:16.100 Also Jacob's ladder.

00:08:17.840 Jacob lies down, and he puts his head on the stone,

00:08:19.980 where he has the dream about the angels going up and down the ladder.

00:08:24.680 There is an idea in Jewish commentary, and Christian commentary as well,

00:08:28.220 that this is the location of that.

00:08:30.780 There's a dispute here about what should sit at the center of the world,

00:08:35.500 and the world in this situation is, in some real way, a map that's laid on the territory.

00:08:41.720 And a map is a conceptual device that people use to orient themselves as they move forward.

00:08:47.760 And a map has to have a center point to allow for orientation,

00:08:52.860 and there's dispute about what the center point would be.

00:08:55.520 I guess it's partly because everybody has to share the same map in order to get along in the same territory.

00:09:01.740 And so you have different groups of people who will insist upon a different mapping structure.

00:09:06.360 And if two groups that are isolated come together, they have different maps.

00:09:10.360 And all of this is a dispute about what the center point of the map is going to be.

00:09:14.180 So I was mentioning to Ben, you see the dome here is male, the gold.

00:09:18.520 And symbolically, gold is associated with the sun.

00:09:21.680 And the dome is the, you could think about it as the sun rising in the morning.

00:09:25.800 And one of the reasons that the sun rising in the morning would be at the center point of the map

00:09:30.020 is because the axiom that orients the map is something like the primacy of consciousness,

00:09:36.820 to worship the primacy of consciousness, and to have that consciousness emerge on the border

00:09:42.120 between darkness and light is proper symbolically,

00:09:45.020 because consciousness actually emerges at the border between order and chaos.

00:09:49.780 The foundation stone is here, the holy of holies was here,

00:09:52.820 the place where Jacob Gladys stretched up to heaven, that's all the same idea, right?

00:09:57.040 That's all the same center axis of the world, around which everything rotates

00:10:01.600 and which orients us toward, the axis money points to the north star.

00:10:05.140 So that gives you orientation at night, right?

00:10:07.840 Because you can look up and you can see a fixed point in heaven, which is the north star,

00:10:11.920 and you can orient yourself completely in the world as a consequence of that.

00:10:16.820 What does it mean for consciousness to be primary?

00:10:20.040 Well, you can't have something without there being awareness of it.

00:10:25.620 Even when we talk about our cosmological models extending back 14 billion years,

00:10:30.960 we say there was a big bang, and what we say,

00:10:34.540 sort of voce, right, in the soft voices,

00:10:37.520 if someone was there, this is what they would have seen.

00:10:40.560 But of course there was no one there.

00:10:43.060 The reality itself presumes an observer, an experiencer,

00:10:47.340 and consciousness is that experiencer,

00:10:49.660 and we don't know its nature.

00:10:51.940 It's an irreducible mystery.

00:10:55.560 Now, the nature of that consciousness in the Judeo-Christian tradition

00:10:59.840 is conceptualized and symbolized as the word, right?

00:11:04.120 It's this process that brings ordered existence out of the void,

00:11:11.000 the chaotic void, into clarity.

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00:13:46.340 This is about as close as we'll get

00:13:47.740 on this particular side to some of the rocket.

00:13:50.040 This was the second temple platform.

00:13:52.120 I mean, this was like,

00:13:53.280 it's slightly elevated probably over time

00:13:55.080 because it's been 2,000 years,

00:13:56.380 but then they built the dome directly on top of it.

00:13:59.520 Here's a supervisor from the walk coming over.

00:14:04.480 I'm checking this out for what purposes?

00:14:06.360 To make sure that I'm not praying.

00:14:08.100 To make sure that...

00:14:09.080 I pray before every word.

00:14:10.700 Does that count?

00:14:11.980 As long as in your head is probably okay.

00:14:13.520 Okay.

00:14:13.900 If I were to whip out a sitter right now,

00:14:16.440 a prayer book,

00:14:17.440 and start saying Psalms,

00:14:18.300 it would be a problem.

00:14:19.560 This is probably...

00:14:20.440 I assume this is why he wanted me

00:14:21.700 to have the hat on for this part of the journey.

00:14:24.640 So Jordan and I go up to the temple mount

00:14:26.020 and we're walking around.

00:14:26.960 That's literally all we are doing.

00:14:28.080 We're walking the perimeter of the temple mount under guard

00:14:31.580 because that's what you do according to the law.

00:14:33.540 You're not allowed to carry up,

00:14:34.500 if you're a Jew or a Christian,

00:14:35.640 any religious items.

00:14:36.600 If you're a Muslim, you can do whatever you want.

00:14:37.760 You're not allowed to pray up there openly

00:14:39.080 if you're a Jew or if you're a Christian.

00:14:40.260 If you're a Muslim, you can do whatever you want.

00:14:41.780 The simple fact that Jordan and I

00:14:42.960 are walking around up there gets caught on tape

00:14:44.720 and people who are, I would say, malicious in intent

00:14:48.480 decide that they are going to characterize this

00:14:50.360 as Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro

00:14:52.160 invade the temple mount.

00:14:53.900 People are literally paid to be up there

00:14:55.300 pretty much every day,

00:14:56.160 ready to jump on any incident

00:14:58.560 that they can turn into

00:14:59.660 some sort of narrative about

00:15:01.320 predations on Islamic rights up there,

00:15:03.760 which is an absurdity.

00:15:04.980 The only people who actually have the full rights 1.00

00:15:06.660 of movement and prayer

00:15:08.880 on the temple mount on a daily basis

00:15:10.880 are Muslims.

00:15:11.880 This is the origin of Western civilization.

00:15:16.960 If you believe that it's Jerusalem and Athens,

00:15:18.940 which is sort of the typical structure

00:15:20.080 that people use to discuss,

00:15:21.520 then this is the center of Jerusalem.

00:15:23.260 This is the Axis Mundi, 0.99

00:15:24.320 and we're walking through it right now.

00:15:25.780 You're walking through not just history,

00:15:27.340 but the foundation for the entire modern world.

00:15:30.280 Western civilization, traditionally speaking,

00:15:32.380 has been thought of as the marriage

00:15:33.360 of Jerusalem and Athens.

00:15:34.820 Jerusalem is the foundation of a godly morality,

00:15:37.880 human beings who are bound by a higher power

00:15:40.240 in an understandable universe

00:15:41.720 where they can discover God

00:15:44.140 through the process of reason and revelation.

00:15:46.920 And then that has to be balanced with Athens,

00:15:49.860 which is traditionally seen as

00:15:51.580 human rationality and human reason.

00:15:53.560 So if the idea is revelation is religion

00:15:55.880 and reason is science,

00:15:59.020 then essentially the marriage of those two things

00:16:01.020 is Western civilization.

00:16:01.840 You know that Athens and Jerusalem idea 0.90

00:16:05.240 as the twin pillars,

00:16:07.380 they're not exactly twin pillars.

00:16:09.220 They're one pillar stacked on top of the other

00:16:10.920 because the Jerusalem part of it

00:16:13.080 is the narrative that's been coming down from the top.

00:16:16.820 And the Athenian part of it

00:16:18.140 is the realization of the logos

00:16:20.460 of the material structure that's rising from the bottom.

00:16:23.760 And Western civilization meets right in the middle.

00:16:26.320 And partly what we're trying to puzzle out right now,

00:16:28.640 really, in our culture,

00:16:29.660 is the further details of how the narrative

00:16:32.360 and the material interpenetrate.

00:16:34.520 And you see that here

00:16:35.720 because this place is a place

00:16:37.140 where the narrative and the material

00:16:38.540 are fighting to interpenetrate

00:16:40.600 and it's multiple narratives competing

00:16:42.580 to map the underlying territory.

00:16:45.380 There's too many potential stories

00:16:47.240 in the material substructure.

00:16:49.040 That's the plethora of facts.

00:16:50.900 So you need an orienting structure

00:16:53.040 that descends from above

00:16:54.360 to extract out the proper facts from the material.

00:16:57.880 And that's the union of Jerusalem and Athens.

00:17:00.300 That makes perfect sense.

00:17:00.960 Yeah, well, and that's all converted. 0.64

00:17:02.600 All the cognitive science is converging

00:17:04.400 on that revelation, I would say.

00:17:07.480 You know, when people sort of mock faith,

00:17:10.160 which is what they try to say that Jerusalem is,

00:17:12.220 and Jerusalem is really sort of,

00:17:13.400 I would say, informed faith,

00:17:14.540 meaning that it's not sort of principles

00:17:17.120 that are taken from nowhere,

00:17:18.300 but you do need the ratification

00:17:21.440 of a revelatory structure

00:17:23.880 in order to just say,

00:17:24.620 these are things that are inarguable.

00:17:25.780 Well, the scientific insistence

00:17:27.620 that you can have a narrative-free

00:17:29.820 encounter with the facts

00:17:31.480 and orient yourself is simply not true.

00:17:33.920 And then every time they try to pull away

00:17:35.280 from narrative, the narrative just...

00:17:37.300 Well, if you destabilize,

00:17:39.800 what happens is if you destabilize

00:17:41.700 a fundamental, differentiated,

00:17:43.880 functional narrative and destroy it,

00:17:46.820 it gets replaced with a low-resolution,

00:17:49.240 catastrophically oversimplified narrative

00:17:52.180 that's just devastating,

00:17:54.300 that would be what happened

00:17:55.540 as a consequence of the death of God.

00:17:58.020 Right.

00:17:58.660 Well, the differentiated,

00:18:00.600 historically instantiated,

00:18:02.040 unifying narrative collapsed,

00:18:04.160 and then what happened?

00:18:05.640 Power.

00:18:06.140 Yeah.

00:18:06.360 Power.

00:18:06.800 Right, right.

00:18:07.420 Yeah.

00:18:07.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:18:09.580 One-pixel stories.

00:18:11.320 Everything is power.

00:18:12.400 Tell me about the wall.

00:18:15.740 So this is all an exterior wall

00:18:17.640 that is, you can see by the sides of the rock

00:18:19.960 that it's Ottoman era, right?

00:18:21.160 It's smaller stones.

00:18:22.260 The whole city's built out of this rock.

00:18:24.720 Jerusalem stone, yeah.

00:18:25.960 It's Jerusalem stone.

00:18:27.000 Yeah.

00:18:27.220 Because that's the Jerusalem stone,

00:18:28.740 and there must be strict building codes in Jerusalem.

00:18:30.900 Is everything else to be made of?

00:18:32.600 Pretty much, yeah.

00:18:33.520 Yeah, so it gives it a homogeneity.

00:18:35.340 Yeah, it's really nice to see that, you know.

00:18:37.620 It makes it feel like a place

00:18:39.620 instead of this...

00:18:40.700 Just hodgepodge.

00:18:41.720 Yeah, which is every modern city now.

00:18:43.800 Exactly. 0.99

00:18:44.040 It's so pathetic. 0.99

00:18:44.960 No, I don't think here is the place. 0.99

00:18:46.420 It's a modern city.

00:18:47.520 It's beautiful.

00:18:48.720 One of the coolest things

00:18:49.680 about walking through Jerusalem

00:18:50.600 is that you can see the progress over time.

00:18:53.340 It's almost like walking forward through time.

00:18:55.540 You start off on the Temple Mount,

00:18:57.260 which is fully 3,000 years old,

00:18:59.400 and then you walk through the old city of Jerusalem,

00:19:01.360 which is somewhere between 1,000 and 500 years old,

00:19:04.720 and then you walk directly into Mamelemal,

00:19:06.840 which is about 20 years old.

00:19:08.440 They all use the same basic building material.

00:19:10.340 There's building restrictions in Jerusalem

00:19:12.000 that you have to build out of Jerusalem stones, 0.93

00:19:13.580 that there's sort of architectural similarity

00:19:15.640 and continuity of aesthetics,

00:19:18.020 and more American cities should do this. 0.93

00:19:19.700 I mean, one of the big problems

00:19:21.300 in American architecture

00:19:22.120 is that it's just basically a hodgepodge,

00:19:23.620 whatever people felt like that day.

00:19:25.040 But there is nothing worse

00:19:26.140 than when you see an old Gothic cathedral,

00:19:28.560 and then right next door,

00:19:29.520 somebody's built like a modern monstrosity.

00:19:31.440 And there is nothing, I think, more beautiful

00:19:33.320 than walking through a city

00:19:34.800 that recognizes its past

00:19:36.600 while simultaneously reaching for the future.

00:19:39.500 Jordan and I walk past this model

00:19:40.900 of the old city of Jerusalem,

00:19:42.540 and you can see what it looked like in the time.

00:19:44.680 And all of Jerusalem is built around this idea 0.92

00:19:46.840 that the ancients and the modern

00:19:48.320 are all of one piece.

00:19:49.500 So this is an attempt to control the site.

00:19:55.860 Yeah, Jerusalem's filled with the cats.

00:19:58.280 Are you fulfilling your...

00:19:59.340 One of the rules there.

00:20:00.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:01.800 The cats, by the way, are a British thing.

00:20:05.680 The British brought in the cats

00:20:06.500 to kill all the snakes.

00:20:07.900 They killed all the snakes.

00:20:09.060 The cats killed the snakes.

00:20:10.100 The cats killed the snakes.

00:20:11.420 But they proceeded to take over...

00:20:13.620 Why do cats kill the snakes? 0.94

00:20:14.180 Apparently.

00:20:14.900 That's what I was told the other day.

00:20:15.980 Cats are quite something.

00:20:17.220 Yeah.

00:20:17.400 And then they took over the entire area,

00:20:19.320 especially because Orthodox Jews,

00:20:21.480 they have real restrictions on spaying and neutering.

00:20:23.860 Ah.

00:20:24.580 So the cats are all over the city.

00:20:27.360 There's cats everywhere in Turkey, too.

00:20:29.280 Oh, really?

00:20:29.560 There's cats everywhere in Greece.

00:20:30.800 Cats everywhere in Greece.

00:20:31.360 Probably every place...

00:20:33.100 It sounds like every place

00:20:33.920 the British set foot, right?

00:20:36.300 Brought with them their cats.

00:20:37.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:43.780 In the Jewish community,

00:20:44.840 you can have a lot of free-feeling conversations

00:20:46.460 about God,

00:20:47.000 and then border on heresy,

00:20:48.460 and you're basically okay.

00:20:49.980 Mainly because

00:20:50.860 the skin in the game

00:20:52.180 elements of religion,

00:20:53.160 which is,

00:20:53.540 here's a bunch of things you do

00:20:54.580 to demonstrate you're part of the...

00:20:55.740 Yeah.

00:20:56.620 If you're doing all that stuff,

00:20:57.760 then whatever doctrinal issues you have,

00:20:59.960 you've already proved

00:21:00.640 that you're skin in the game.

00:21:01.720 Right, right, right.

00:21:02.440 Because Christianity

00:21:03.160 removes a lot of the...

00:21:04.560 Because he acted out...

00:21:04.780 removes a lot of the...

00:21:05.780 ...

00:21:06.640 ...skin in the game

00:21:07.640 and rituals, right?

00:21:08.940 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:09.060 So now the doctrine

00:21:10.000 is the ritual.

00:21:10.920 You're better applied by the doctrine.

00:21:11.980 Absolutely.

00:21:12.760 Well, you see that extending itself

00:21:14.300 most particularly in Protestantism,

00:21:16.480 where everything's become

00:21:17.480 propositionalized.

00:21:18.820 Exactly.

00:21:19.340 You also see it

00:21:19.940 in any area

00:21:21.240 that becomes completely propositional.

00:21:23.240 You see an inability

00:21:24.440 to tolerate diversity

00:21:25.580 of thought at all.

00:21:26.500 Yeah.

00:21:26.540 And that's why

00:21:27.480 the objections of nationalism,

00:21:29.920 which is like,

00:21:30.900 well, you know...

00:21:31.360 Yeah, that's a nice

00:21:32.000 general principle.

00:21:33.500 You know,

00:21:33.860 so what that would mean

00:21:35.400 is in the absence

00:21:36.180 of a shared drama,

00:21:38.120 right,

00:21:38.700 which would be embodied,

00:21:40.320 then you can't tolerate

00:21:41.280 propositional deviance.

00:21:42.560 Right, exactly.

00:21:43.320 What destroys the ability

00:21:44.820 to have propositional conversation

00:21:45.980 is a feeling of bad faith.

00:21:47.340 The reason you're doing this

00:21:48.300 is to avoid the responsibility.

00:21:49.340 Yeah.

00:21:49.640 The reason that you're saying this

00:21:50.600 is because you want

00:21:51.160 to destroy the system.

00:21:52.440 Right, well,

00:21:52.900 it also might be

00:21:53.800 that if we differ propositionally,

00:21:55.460 we start to differ

00:21:56.420 in terms of our actions

00:21:57.440 so much that we can't

00:21:58.760 inhabit the same space.

00:21:59.800 Exactly.

00:22:00.560 And that would always be

00:22:01.420 the unspoken issue.

00:22:03.100 It's like,

00:22:03.400 well, if you disagree

00:22:04.260 with me on this,

00:22:05.500 what else do you disagree

00:22:06.860 with me about?

00:22:09.420 And how do we know

00:22:10.220 that's commensurate

00:22:11.060 with lily to you?

00:22:12.260 Exactly.

00:22:13.280 So, I was thinking that,

00:22:14.940 you know,

00:22:15.220 what's kind of fascinating

00:22:16.680 is that if you see Judaism

00:22:17.840 as an attempt

00:22:18.440 to concretize the spiritual,

00:22:20.120 this is why everything

00:22:20.980 is focused on minutia

00:22:21.960 and legalistic minutia.

00:22:22.940 So, for example,

00:22:23.800 they'll take a commandment,

00:22:24.700 we'll take a commandment,

00:22:25.620 like, in Hebrew,

00:22:26.980 you're supposed to love

00:22:28.640 your brother as yourself.

00:22:29.840 And we'll say,

00:22:30.220 okay, what this means is

00:22:31.360 when your brother is poor,

00:22:33.220 you have to give him some money.

00:22:34.080 It means that when you are,

00:22:35.820 it means that when somebody dies,

00:22:37.360 you have to visit

00:22:37.860 a house in mourning.

00:22:39.040 It concretizes you

00:22:40.140 into specific commandments.

00:22:41.860 Well, that's good

00:22:42.440 because that also means

00:22:43.380 you know when you're being good.

00:22:46.560 The problem with Facebook,

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00:23:00.340 The digital version of you

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00:25:19.220 Jordan and I are at

00:25:20.160 the shrine of the book.

00:25:21.340 This is where you'll find

00:25:22.000 the Dead Sea Scrolls,

00:25:23.220 which were the most

00:25:24.480 ancient versions

00:25:25.420 of the biblical text

00:25:26.480 discovered in 1947.

00:25:28.940 So we're going to look

00:25:29.440 at some texts

00:25:29.920 that are well over

00:25:30.920 2,000 years old

00:25:32.080 that contain direct

00:25:33.340 quotations from the Bible

00:25:34.900 that we all know.

00:25:35.520 Well, that was quite

00:25:40.360 the discovery.

00:25:41.540 Right, exactly.

00:25:42.820 So this is

00:25:43.460 straight from the book

00:25:45.460 of Isaiah.

00:25:47.140 One day,

00:25:47.960 there's a little Arab kid

00:25:49.260 who's throwing rocks.

00:25:50.720 He throws a rock

00:25:51.200 into a cave

00:25:51.540 and he hears

00:25:51.720 a shattering noise

00:25:52.420 and he runs in there

00:25:53.240 and there are just

00:25:53.980 these urns.

00:25:54.740 These urns are filled

00:25:55.520 with 2,000-year-old script.

00:25:58.300 And these scrolls

00:26:00.440 show continuity

00:26:01.740 of biblical text

00:26:02.740 because they're 200 BC

00:26:04.280 and they contain

00:26:06.620 verbatim phraseology

00:26:08.680 from the Bible.

00:26:09.820 And so the idea

00:26:10.300 that the Bible

00:26:10.760 is completely

00:26:11.400 sort of a made-up construct

00:26:13.820 and it's not a preservation

00:26:15.040 of older material

00:26:16.080 is debunked

00:26:17.040 by some of the

00:26:17.880 Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:26:19.060 People find it surprising

00:26:20.540 that the oral traditions

00:26:21.720 are conserved

00:26:22.460 and that the texts

00:26:23.860 are conserved,

00:26:24.560 but the alternative

00:26:25.220 is even more hard

00:26:26.180 to believe,

00:26:26.740 which is that

00:26:27.320 scattered,

00:26:30.200 small human populations

00:26:31.460 are stunningly creative

00:26:32.720 enough to modify the texts

00:26:34.200 and they're not.

00:26:36.280 You know,

00:26:36.520 creative people

00:26:37.160 are actually very rare.

00:26:38.500 Right.

00:26:39.160 And so there are periods

00:26:40.540 of time

00:26:41.040 in the Egyptian dynasties

00:26:42.580 where the archaeological

00:26:43.400 record shows

00:26:44.340 no technological transformation

00:26:45.940 whatsoever

00:26:46.720 for 1,000 years.

00:26:48.760 And Egypt was 0.90

00:26:49.700 extremely dynamic

00:26:50.680 by archaic standards.

00:26:52.940 And so the truth

00:26:54.020 of the matter too

00:26:54.760 is that the older

00:26:55.960 a story is,

00:26:56.820 the more likely it is

00:26:57.740 to be way older

00:26:58.500 than that.

00:26:59.080 So,

00:27:00.820 because in a tribal society,

00:27:02.920 the rule in a tribal society

00:27:04.600 is nothing changes

00:27:05.580 for 50,000 years.

00:27:07.860 Oh, yeah, yeah,

00:27:08.300 I mean, for sure.

00:27:08.920 The idea that people

00:27:10.020 have been writing down

00:27:11.040 the Bible

00:27:11.480 for thousands of years

00:27:13.300 and, you know,

00:27:14.340 hundreds of years

00:27:14.860 before Christ

00:27:15.620 at the very least,

00:27:16.880 that obviously is true

00:27:17.880 and that's true

00:27:18.760 from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

00:27:20.280 Those are the oldest

00:27:21.140 extant remnants,

00:27:22.420 but that doesn't mean

00:27:22.880 that it was made up

00:27:23.580 in that generation.

00:27:24.280 I mean,

00:27:24.360 the presumption is

00:27:25.000 that hundreds of years

00:27:25.800 beforehand

00:27:26.180 people were doing that as well.

00:27:27.020 The old city of Jerusalem,

00:27:29.480 it's old,

00:27:30.400 but it's not that old.

00:27:31.420 So some of it's Ottoman era,

00:27:32.800 some of it is before,

00:27:34.600 but 2,000 years old

00:27:35.920 in Jerusalem

00:27:36.560 is like kind of old.

00:27:38.820 Then there's like

00:27:39.580 the really old stuff,

00:27:40.380 which is what we're about

00:27:40.980 to see in the city of David,

00:27:42.780 which is fully

00:27:44.120 3,300 years old.

00:27:47.540 For hundreds of years,

00:27:48.640 thousands of years,

00:27:49.240 people saw it in the Bible

00:27:49.920 as a historical document.

00:27:51.900 One of the things

00:27:52.420 that's really amazing

00:27:53.120 about looking at all

00:27:53.820 the archaeological digs

00:27:54.860 in Jerusalem

00:27:55.360 and seeing as piece by piece

00:27:57.040 they verify details

00:27:58.440 in the Bible

00:27:58.920 is that as they uncover

00:28:00.280 pieces of that historical truth,

00:28:01.760 not only does it reunify you

00:28:03.020 with the history,

00:28:03.720 but it also reunifies you

00:28:04.860 with the idea

00:28:05.400 that things that are

00:28:06.380 ancient in origin

00:28:07.180 and have tended to stand

00:28:08.160 the test of time

00:28:08.860 might be kind of valuable

00:28:10.300 until you dispense

00:28:11.240 with the importance

00:28:11.760 of that sort of stuff

00:28:12.340 at your own peril.

00:28:13.800 The city of David

00:28:14.880 is located just below

00:28:16.200 what is now traditionally

00:28:17.280 known as the Old City

00:28:18.200 of Jerusalem.

00:28:19.700 The city of David

00:28:20.400 is the original location

00:28:21.720 of Jerusalem, actually.

00:28:23.180 Archaeologists think

00:28:25.880 that this site

00:28:26.940 is the palace of King David.

00:28:29.820 My name is Zev Orenstein

00:28:31.040 and I'm the director

00:28:32.080 of international affairs

00:28:33.080 here at the city of David,

00:28:35.300 which is the biblical site

00:28:36.560 of ancient Jerusalem,

00:28:38.340 the place where

00:28:38.840 Jerusalem began. 0.51

00:28:41.160 2005, all this is underground.

00:28:43.080 One morning,

00:28:43.840 an archaeologist

00:28:44.440 by the name of Eilat Mazar,

00:28:45.540 she comes into our visitor sector 0.99

00:28:46.660 and says,

00:28:46.940 you need to move your offices.

00:28:48.340 I ask her why.

00:28:48.880 She says,

00:28:49.100 beneath your feet,

00:28:49.680 you'll find the palace

00:28:50.360 of King David.

00:28:51.700 What do you do with that?

00:28:53.300 So, you know,

00:28:54.400 we asked her why.

00:28:55.600 So she shows us something.

00:28:56.840 It's in the Israel Museum today.

00:28:58.180 Found 60 years ago.

00:28:59.880 You have over here

00:29:00.700 royal Phoenician capital.

00:29:02.820 So if you look

00:29:03.160 at these columns over here,

00:29:04.160 imagine a column.

00:29:04.900 This is sitting

00:29:05.280 on top of the column.

00:29:06.580 This proves that

00:29:07.400 where we're standing

00:29:07.900 is the location

00:29:08.600 of King David's palace.

00:29:09.620 What's the connection?

00:29:10.920 In 2 Samuel 5, verse 11,

00:29:13.340 it says,

00:29:13.680 King Hiram of Tyre

00:29:14.520 sent envoys to David

00:29:15.500 with cedar locks,

00:29:16.320 carpenters,

00:29:16.740 and stonemasons

00:29:17.280 and they built a palace

00:29:18.040 for David.

00:29:18.740 The Phoenicians are the ones 1.00

00:29:19.920 who the Bible says

00:29:20.620 built David's palace.

00:29:21.620 We find here

00:29:22.560 the royal Phoenician capital.

00:29:24.160 Why?

00:29:24.620 Well, because the Phoenicians 1.00

00:29:25.380 were the ones

00:29:25.800 who built David's palace.

00:29:26.960 They start to dig.

00:29:27.980 They find to the north,

00:29:29.280 to the east,

00:29:29.840 walls about 8 meters thick.

00:29:31.340 It's clear there's

00:29:31.740 a massive structure here.

00:29:33.040 The question is

00:29:33.560 from what time period?

00:29:34.620 They find pottery

00:29:35.400 and other organic material

00:29:36.440 at the base of the walls

00:29:37.200 that Dr. Mazar dates

00:29:38.360 to 3,000 years ago

00:29:39.440 to the time of David.

00:29:40.480 Other people date it

00:29:41.260 to about 100 years

00:29:42.020 after David.

00:29:42.900 So the debate

00:29:43.420 is not what this area was.

00:29:44.720 This was the original

00:29:45.640 Capitol Hill,

00:29:46.300 the royal government

00:29:47.060 ruling center

00:29:47.720 of the Davidic dynasty.

00:29:49.060 And the other thing

00:29:49.600 that we have over here

00:29:50.400 is two clay seals, right?

00:29:52.800 In ancient times,

00:29:53.660 before you had

00:29:54.260 encryption and encoding

00:29:55.260 and whatever,

00:29:56.240 you'd write your letter.

00:29:57.120 Then you would roll it up,

00:29:58.360 tie it up.

00:29:58.740 But before you'd hand it

00:29:59.380 to the messenger,

00:29:59.940 you'd take your ring,

00:30:00.720 stick it into the clay,

00:30:02.080 and now on your ring,

00:30:03.000 and now on the clay

00:30:03.880 is your name

00:30:05.320 and son of your father's name.

00:30:06.820 She's digging here

00:30:07.680 and she finds two seals

00:30:09.240 just like this one, right?

00:30:10.500 This is what Hebrew 0.61

00:30:10.960 used to look like.

00:30:12.120 And on the seals,

00:30:13.080 there are names.

00:30:14.040 G'dayas and Pashchor,

00:30:15.000 Juchas and Hashlemiah,

00:30:16.380 two of the four ministers

00:30:17.520 that made up

00:30:18.100 the security cabinet

00:30:18.940 of King Tzedekiah,

00:30:20.060 the last king

00:30:20.720 of the Davidic dynasty

00:30:21.480 right before

00:30:21.900 the Babylonian destruction.

00:30:23.680 I mean,

00:30:23.880 these are real people.

00:30:24.640 Their seals were found

00:30:25.300 in the royal government center

00:30:26.540 of the Davidic dynasty

00:30:27.580 where you would expect

00:30:28.240 the ministers of the king

00:30:29.000 to be, right?

00:30:30.140 Not simply as a matter of faith,

00:30:31.340 but as a matter of fact.

00:30:32.540 And a few meters away

00:30:33.400 from here,

00:30:33.880 the same Dr. Mazar

00:30:34.640 finds the seal

00:30:35.560 of King Hezekiah

00:30:36.400 and of the prophet Isaiah.

00:30:38.000 So, I mean,

00:30:38.760 you asked before

00:30:39.360 how legitimate is this?

00:30:40.460 I mean,

00:30:41.300 the seals here

00:30:42.040 are incontrovertible.

00:30:43.600 Was King David here

00:30:44.940 ruling here

00:30:45.800 or his grandson?

00:30:46.900 I can't tell you.

00:30:47.680 The Davidic dynasty 0.97

00:30:48.340 was ruling from here.

00:30:49.800 This is where it was,

00:30:50.560 not the old city.

00:30:51.140 Bathsheba was probably taking...

00:30:52.180 So think about Bathsheba.

00:30:53.080 It says,

00:30:53.340 what happened to Bathsheba?

00:30:54.360 Right?

00:30:54.560 It says one night

00:30:55.380 the AC is not working

00:30:56.340 in the palace.

00:30:56.900 He goes out into the balcony

00:30:57.820 and he looks down

00:30:58.740 into the city.

00:30:59.820 What does he see?

00:31:00.540 He sees a woman

00:31:00.900 bathing on the roof.

00:31:02.060 How is it possible

00:31:02.840 for him to see someone

00:31:03.720 bathing on the roof

00:31:04.440 unless...

00:31:05.140 He's elevated.

00:31:06.400 Now he can look down

00:31:07.500 when you're in the place

00:31:08.580 where the...

00:31:09.080 So think about it.

00:31:10.360 When you're in the place

00:31:11.080 where the Bible happened,

00:31:11.880 the words of the Bible

00:31:12.460 come to life.

00:31:13.620 You understand the story

00:31:14.700 of David and Bathsheba

00:31:16.000 very clearly

00:31:16.740 when you look at the geography.

00:31:18.000 You have David

00:31:18.780 looking out

00:31:19.500 from his palace

00:31:20.480 and he sees onto the roof

00:31:21.940 of Uriah

00:31:23.040 and Bathsheba

00:31:24.000 is bathing up there.

00:31:25.400 He sins with Bathsheba 0.98

00:31:26.380 and then the prophet Nathan

00:31:27.800 comes and chastises

00:31:28.700 and tells him

00:31:29.320 that he's done a grave evil

00:31:30.620 and a grave wrong

00:31:31.640 and he's forced to atone

00:31:32.920 for that wrong.

00:31:34.240 You can see the geography there,

00:31:35.340 right?

00:31:35.480 Because the palace

00:31:36.360 is sort of on top of a hill

00:31:37.760 and then there's a valley

00:31:38.500 and then on the other side

00:31:39.460 of the valley is Silwan.

00:31:40.860 So presumably,

00:31:41.900 Bathsheba's house

00:31:42.420 would have been somewhere

00:31:42.900 in Silwan.

00:31:44.620 If there's a window right there,

00:31:45.580 this is where David

00:31:46.160 is looking out

00:31:46.780 and seeing Bathsheba

00:31:47.840 bathing naked on the roof,

00:31:49.320 which is always...

00:31:49.960 If you know that the king

00:31:51.180 is sitting up there

00:31:51.840 with his window,

00:31:53.280 you know,

00:31:53.480 bathing on the roof

00:31:54.000 seems like a risky proposition.

00:31:55.380 You know?

00:31:58.320 Here you start to see

00:31:59.040 the beginnings of

00:31:59.940 the idea of a constitutional monarchy.

00:32:01.460 So there are even hints

00:32:02.380 of this in Deuteronomy.

00:32:03.560 One of the laws in Deuteronomy

00:32:04.540 is that the king

00:32:05.140 is supposed to carry around

00:32:06.460 his own Sefer Torah.

00:32:07.920 He's subject to the law.

00:32:09.520 The king is not above the law.

00:32:11.020 So Judaism is very clear

00:32:12.060 about that

00:32:12.420 and so is Christianity

00:32:13.080 and henceforth,

00:32:14.140 the idea of limitations

00:32:14.980 on absolute government

00:32:15.980 are part and parcel

00:32:17.600 of the whole system.

00:32:19.520 One of the things

00:32:20.300 that to me

00:32:20.980 lends historical credence

00:32:22.900 to those sorts of stories

00:32:23.860 is that it doesn't exactly

00:32:25.040 show David

00:32:25.700 in a positive light.

00:32:26.860 So what kind of propaganda

00:32:27.640 is that?

00:32:28.220 Exactly.

00:32:29.160 That's definitely

00:32:29.780 one of the things

00:32:30.360 in favor of biblical narrative

00:32:31.740 is that when you

00:32:32.680 show all the warts,

00:32:33.640 it suggests that you're

00:32:34.840 not propagandizing

00:32:35.680 everything.

00:32:35.780 Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:32:36.960 Definitely.

00:32:37.380 And that happens a lot.

00:32:39.680 That's the entire

00:32:40.220 Exodus story, right?

00:32:40.980 The idea is that you have

00:32:41.760 an absolute monarch

00:32:42.540 in Pharaoh

00:32:43.220 and he is a god

00:32:44.600 and so everything

00:32:45.500 he says goes

00:32:46.160 and then people

00:32:47.340 are brought forth

00:32:48.220 from slavery to freedom

00:32:49.860 but the freedom

00:32:50.440 requires subjugation

00:32:51.840 to God, right?

00:32:52.680 You're still a servant

00:32:53.400 but you're not a servant

00:32:54.100 of a person anymore.

00:32:54.940 Now you're a servant

00:32:55.380 of an ideal.

00:32:56.020 You're a servant

00:32:56.340 of a higher power

00:32:57.100 and that means inherently

00:32:58.320 limiting the power

00:32:58.980 of human beings.

00:33:01.880 Looks like this is

00:33:02.780 like a massive cistern.

00:33:04.320 So what you see here

00:33:05.460 is an ancient cistern.

00:33:07.260 You can see the plaster

00:33:08.120 here.

00:33:09.860 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:10.880 Keep the water in.

00:33:12.320 So people would have

00:33:13.060 carved this out of the rock?

00:33:14.060 Yeah, sure.

00:33:14.760 One of the challenges

00:33:15.360 that the Mitchell still has

00:33:16.540 is, you know,

00:33:17.620 water scarcity.

00:33:18.180 Yeah.

00:33:18.720 And so here's how

00:33:19.400 you'd store water.

00:33:20.100 Now keep in mind

00:33:20.940 if we're coming from

00:33:21.700 next to the palace,

00:33:23.420 this is not a private

00:33:24.260 person's cistern.

00:33:25.120 And this you can see

00:33:25.840 is a massive cistern.

00:33:27.160 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:28.120 So the cistern 0.93

00:33:29.300 that archaeologists believe

00:33:30.520 could have been

00:33:31.500 the cistern where

00:33:32.760 Jeremiah was thrown

00:33:33.800 into a pit.

00:33:35.060 Jeremiah was perceived

00:33:36.180 at that time

00:33:37.140 to be a traitor.

00:33:38.100 He had said that

00:33:39.000 if the people

00:33:39.520 don't change their ways,

00:33:40.520 Jerusalem is going 0.96

00:33:41.080 to be destroyed.

00:33:41.920 But he was a prophet 0.82

00:33:42.980 of doom.

00:33:43.360 Nobody wanted to hear

00:33:44.100 what he had to say.

00:33:45.000 And the advisors

00:33:45.680 of King Siddickiah

00:33:46.480 got tired of hearing

00:33:47.400 this guy go around

00:33:48.740 calling for the surrender

00:33:49.620 of the city.

00:33:50.640 And so they throw him

00:33:51.580 down into a pit.

00:33:52.820 Now can I tell you

00:33:54.600 for sure Jeremiah

00:33:55.360 is thrown into this pit?

00:33:56.200 I can't tell you that.

00:33:57.140 Right?

00:33:57.420 And if not this pit,

00:33:58.320 one near here

00:33:58.880 like this one.

00:33:59.560 But it says what happens?

00:34:00.440 All pits are the same.

00:34:01.740 Pretty much.

00:34:02.740 If you're thrown

00:34:03.380 into them.

00:34:04.040 So, but here you say,

00:34:05.100 so what's the plan?

00:34:05.800 He's going to drown?

00:34:06.540 Right?

00:34:06.680 It's a cistern.

00:34:07.400 But the Bible

00:34:07.880 makes it clear

00:34:08.480 there's no water.

00:34:09.540 There's mud.

00:34:10.500 And he's sinking

00:34:11.180 into the mud

00:34:12.500 until a servant

00:34:13.380 of the King

00:34:13.880 goes before Siddickiah

00:34:15.460 and he says

00:34:16.460 you might not like

00:34:18.460 what Jeremiah is saying

00:34:19.740 but it's not him

00:34:21.020 who's saying it.

00:34:21.820 It's a prophet.

00:34:22.740 It's a man of God.

00:34:23.780 Right?

00:34:24.020 The words are God's words.

00:34:25.380 You can't do this

00:34:26.460 to Jeremiah

00:34:27.240 and the King says

00:34:28.420 all right,

00:34:28.940 you're right.

00:34:29.780 Go take 30 people 0.87

00:34:30.940 with you

00:34:31.360 and pull Jeremiah

00:34:32.700 up out of the pit.

00:34:33.680 And then it goes on

00:34:34.240 to say how he,

00:34:34.960 you know,

00:34:35.180 goes on,

00:34:35.560 it keeps true 0.78

00:34:36.300 to his message.

00:34:37.180 Right?

00:34:37.460 About what's going

00:34:37.900 to happen to Jerusalem.

00:34:39.160 Right?

00:34:39.360 But this is where

00:34:40.600 the back of the last

00:34:42.000 days of Jerusalem

00:34:42.680 before the Babylonians

00:34:43.680 destroy it.

00:34:44.200 You have Jeremiah here 0.79

00:34:45.140 sinking into the mud

00:34:46.140 hearing the destruction,

00:34:47.840 the impending destruction

00:34:48.640 up above.

00:34:50.060 This is where it's

00:34:50.560 playing out.

00:34:51.800 We take for granted today

00:34:53.200 the ability to be critical

00:34:54.440 of our leadership,

00:34:56.360 to hold our leaders

00:34:57.080 accountable.

00:34:58.120 But going back

00:34:58.820 thousands of years

00:34:59.580 there was a position

00:35:00.620 in biblical times

00:35:02.120 that of the prophet

00:35:02.940 whose role was

00:35:04.240 to go to the highest

00:35:05.280 levels of society

00:35:06.120 and to hold

00:35:07.260 those leaders accountable

00:35:08.140 and let them know

00:35:09.220 that there are consequences

00:35:10.160 for falling short.

00:35:11.400 There are consequences

00:35:12.040 for making poor decisions,

00:35:13.660 unethical decisions.

00:35:15.540 Both the Judaic side 0.99

00:35:16.960 of government

00:35:17.360 and the Greek side

00:35:18.180 of government

00:35:18.500 are predicated

00:35:19.000 on the idea

00:35:19.460 that there are

00:35:20.060 limitations

00:35:20.700 to what government

00:35:21.800 can do.

00:35:22.840 You can make the case

00:35:23.600 that the biblically

00:35:25.720 based system

00:35:27.320 is more of a

00:35:28.880 limited monarchy

00:35:29.680 where the powers

00:35:30.460 of the king

00:35:30.880 are fairly limited

00:35:31.800 but the kingship

00:35:33.280 is derived

00:35:34.540 not from the people

00:35:35.300 and the Greek system

00:35:36.240 is that authority

00:35:37.320 is derived

00:35:37.740 from the people

00:35:38.200 and is almost unlimited.

00:35:39.680 When Aristotle

00:35:40.480 talks about how

00:35:41.260 there are three types

00:35:41.820 of governments

00:35:42.220 and all have

00:35:43.580 the capacity

00:35:44.060 to devolve

00:35:44.660 into tyranny

00:35:45.780 that's what he's

00:35:46.900 talking about.

00:35:47.620 You can have

00:35:48.040 a benevolent monarch

00:35:48.700 which is more

00:35:49.440 like the biblical system 0.74

00:35:50.380 but even the Bible

00:35:51.280 is pretty divided

00:35:52.300 over whether kings

00:35:53.280 are good or necessary.

00:35:54.380 Samuel gives a whole speech

00:35:55.220 before the appointment

00:35:55.920 of King Saul

00:35:56.800 about you guys

00:35:57.980 are really going

00:35:58.520 to hate this king thing

00:35:59.200 you probably shouldn't

00:35:59.860 do it.

00:36:00.700 And people are like

00:36:01.420 well no we want it anyway

00:36:02.800 and God says okay fine

00:36:03.580 if they want it

00:36:04.140 they're going to get it

00:36:04.900 probably going to get it

00:36:05.600 good and hard

00:36:06.020 but that's the...

00:36:06.820 Every single day here

00:36:09.720 in the city of David

00:36:10.560 we're unearthing antiquities

00:36:11.620 that show not simply

00:36:12.420 as a matter of faith

00:36:13.240 but as a matter of fact

00:36:14.540 Jerusalem's biblical heritage

00:36:15.820 coming to life.

00:36:17.760 We are standing right now

00:36:18.820 in the Givati

00:36:19.500 parking lot excavation.

00:36:21.080 Now you might wonder

00:36:21.640 why would you name

00:36:22.260 an archaeological excavation

00:36:23.420 after a parking lot?

00:36:25.060 Not too long ago

00:36:25.800 there was actually

00:36:26.340 a parking lot here

00:36:27.140 and one day we said

00:36:28.420 we're going to build

00:36:28.900 our visitor center here

00:36:29.860 and the Israel Antiquities

00:36:30.920 Authority said

00:36:31.540 well hold on

00:36:32.080 before you build anything

00:36:33.280 we need to make sure

00:36:34.020 there's nothing exciting

00:36:34.740 beneath your feet.

00:36:35.400 They come with

00:36:36.180 ground penetrating radar

00:36:37.160 they scan down

00:36:38.120 and they find 10 layers

00:36:39.400 of ancient Jerusalem civilization.

00:36:41.500 This is one of the largest

00:36:42.580 active excavations

00:36:43.740 going on in Jerusalem today

00:36:45.360 going back some 2700 years

00:36:47.420 all the way up

00:36:48.420 to modern times

00:36:49.220 one layer

00:36:50.020 built atop the next.

00:36:52.660 When you think about

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00:36:54.440 truly successful

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00:38:35.700 This goes down

00:38:39.420 several stories

00:38:40.220 as they uncover

00:38:41.200 additional layers

00:38:42.260 of history

00:38:42.660 over the course

00:38:43.140 of 3,000 years

00:38:44.320 we're just told

00:38:45.260 up there

00:38:45.540 above our heads

00:38:46.840 would have been

00:38:47.100 a Roman mansion

00:38:47.720 actually

00:38:48.200 So we're about

00:38:50.320 to enter into

00:38:51.020 a compound

00:38:51.920 that goes back

00:38:52.500 about 2,600 years

00:38:54.000 and the Bible

00:38:55.160 talks about how

00:38:55.800 in Jerusalem

00:38:56.160 you had all these

00:38:56.700 big structures here

00:38:57.780 that when the Babylonians 0.94

00:38:58.920 destroyed Jerusalem

00:38:59.680 in 586 BCE

00:39:00.880 they burn all these

00:39:02.340 structures to the ground

00:39:03.120 along with the temple

00:39:03.860 and if you come in here

00:39:05.940 you'll see something

00:39:06.500 incredible

00:39:07.000 in the walls

00:39:08.740 literally

00:39:09.160 you have remnants

00:39:10.240 of the fire

00:39:11.620 of the destruction

00:39:12.880 of Jerusalem

00:39:13.700 by the Babylonians

00:39:14.860 that is ash

00:39:18.260 that is ash

00:39:20.440 from 2,500 years ago

00:39:23.040 from the actual fires

00:39:24.120 when the Babylonians 0.74

00:39:25.320 burn Jerusalem 0.99

00:39:26.400 that's what you're

00:39:27.160 holding your hand

00:39:27.600 right now

00:39:28.080 One of the things

00:39:29.740 that's so interesting

00:39:30.520 about this archaeological

00:39:31.700 dig is that

00:39:33.020 people are using

00:39:35.120 the techniques

00:39:35.860 of scientific

00:39:36.760 archaeology

00:39:37.880 to revitalize

00:39:39.740 the interpretive narrative

00:39:40.980 because you see

00:39:42.500 the truth of the story

00:39:43.680 revealed in the artifact

00:39:44.640 which is so cool

00:39:46.140 you were commenting

00:39:47.160 earlier that

00:39:47.820 people have lost

00:39:49.040 faith in Jerusalem

00:39:50.220 let's say

00:39:50.800 and are starting

00:39:51.680 to lose faith

00:39:52.340 in Athens too

00:39:53.180 maybe because

00:39:54.820 one cannot exist

00:39:55.800 without the other

00:39:56.440 not in the west

00:39:57.220 the fact that

00:39:58.800 we had to turn

00:39:59.360 to the object

00:40:00.960 to revitalize

00:40:02.000 the narrative

00:40:02.500 at this time

00:40:04.320 well it makes

00:40:05.420 a certain amount

00:40:05.960 of sense conceptually

00:40:06.860 but it's also

00:40:07.360 quite a striking phenomenon

00:40:08.620 so yes

00:40:10.160 this was real

00:40:10.840 these things happened

00:40:11.800 whatever real means

00:40:13.380 in a context

00:40:13.960 like that

00:40:14.620 it's also

00:40:16.040 amazing

00:40:16.700 because the

00:40:17.180 suffering 0.70

00:40:17.660 which Jews 0.53

00:40:18.520 commemorate

00:40:19.080 the destruction

00:40:19.740 of Jerusalem

00:40:20.240 till this day

00:40:21.820 the suffering

00:40:23.720 which is temporary

00:40:24.580 and then you see

00:40:25.580 there's a famous

00:40:26.520 story in the Talmud

00:40:27.420 about rabbis

00:40:28.160 visiting the

00:40:29.060 place where

00:40:30.340 they're overlooking

00:40:31.080 the Temple Mount

00:40:32.080 and they see

00:40:32.400 all the destruction

00:40:32.900 and there are

00:40:33.660 three rabbis

00:40:34.180 and two of them

00:40:34.560 are crying

00:40:34.860 and one

00:40:35.080 Rabbi Akiva

00:40:35.600 is laughing

00:40:36.700 and they ask him

00:40:37.200 why are you laughing

00:40:37.900 and he says

00:40:38.660 well it says

00:40:39.580 in the prophets

00:40:40.340 that it's going to be

00:40:41.660 rubble

00:40:41.900 and there can be

00:40:42.280 foxes

00:40:42.960 wandering

00:40:44.160 on the holiest places

00:40:45.720 and he says

00:40:46.900 I'm seeing that

00:40:47.420 happen right now

00:40:47.980 which means

00:40:48.340 that the other part

00:40:48.860 is going to come true

00:40:49.420 and one of the things

00:40:50.760 about being here

00:40:51.380 in the modern age

00:40:52.060 is that you get to see

00:40:52.900 the destruction

00:40:53.620 in the rear view mirror

00:40:55.080 and then you get to

00:40:55.700 you know

00:40:56.040 you look almost

00:40:56.900 straight up

00:40:57.400 and you can see

00:40:57.920 the rebuilding

00:40:58.380 of Jerusalem

00:40:59.160 it's an amazing

00:40:59.740 amazing thing

00:41:00.340 yeah well I mean

00:41:02.120 one of the things

00:41:02.780 that does keep you

00:41:03.600 going through

00:41:04.080 catastrophe

00:41:04.640 is the faith

00:41:05.600 that something

00:41:06.680 can be rebuilt

00:41:08.020 from the rubble

00:41:08.780 587 BCE

00:41:11.100 is the year 0.99

00:41:11.840 that the Babylonians

00:41:12.960 invade Israel 0.99

00:41:14.000 and they destroy

00:41:14.540 the first temple

00:41:15.180 and you would imagine

00:41:16.600 that this would have

00:41:17.220 been the end of Judaism 0.79

00:41:18.060 and therefore no Christianity 0.84

00:41:19.180 and no further

00:41:19.920 western civilization

00:41:20.780 right

00:41:21.120 typically in the olden days

00:41:22.820 when a civilization

00:41:23.720 was destroyed

00:41:24.320 and its chief city

00:41:24.940 burned to the ground

00:41:25.580 they kind of dissipate

00:41:26.520 into history

00:41:26.960 you never hear of them again

00:41:27.880 that's not what happens here

00:41:29.100 Judaism exists in exile 1.00

00:41:30.300 for thousands of years

00:41:31.780 that Judaism can survive that 1.00

00:41:33.380 and then revivify itself

00:41:34.780 not once but twice

00:41:35.980 and then they come back

00:41:36.900 to the land of Israel 0.60

00:41:37.580 in 1948

00:41:38.820 and reestablish

00:41:39.840 a thriving state

00:41:41.100 I mean it's an unbelievable

00:41:42.260 story of heroic perseverance

00:41:44.340 but also of the presence

00:41:45.540 of God in history

00:41:46.580 this pilgrimage road

00:41:50.640 is the road

00:41:51.100 that hundreds of thousands

00:41:51.880 of people would use

00:41:52.860 every single year

00:41:53.760 several times a year

00:41:54.580 in order to bring

00:41:55.220 their sacrifices

00:41:55.920 to the temple mount

00:41:57.260 it's in pretty good condition

00:41:59.280 it is amazing

00:42:00.380 yeah

00:42:00.880 so we're standing

00:42:02.480 on the pilgrimage road

00:42:03.820 we're about halfway up

00:42:04.780 it's about a half mile long

00:42:05.800 right

00:42:06.480 and what we have here

00:42:07.580 is this is the road

00:42:08.820 that 2,000 years ago

00:42:10.000 that our ancestors

00:42:11.480 when they would have

00:42:12.240 first gone to the pool of Ceylon

00:42:13.480 cleansed before making

00:42:14.560 their way up

00:42:15.020 the half mile journey

00:42:15.840 along the pilgrimage road

00:42:17.020 up to the temple

00:42:17.860 on the temple mount

00:42:18.400 these are the original flagstones

00:42:19.720 from 2,000 years ago

00:42:21.400 not stones that look like these

00:42:23.300 these are the original stones

00:42:25.140 when they first began

00:42:26.700 excavating the pilgrimage road

00:42:27.680 they found

00:42:28.180 that there were potholes

00:42:29.280 they said okay

00:42:29.820 well potholes today

00:42:30.820 potholes 2,000 years ago

00:42:31.980 but then they found

00:42:32.860 another one

00:42:33.500 and another one

00:42:34.420 and another one

00:42:35.200 evenly spaced

00:42:36.160 always in the same spot

00:42:37.280 and if someone was deliberately

00:42:38.720 breaking open the pilgrimage road

00:42:39.940 and the question is why

00:42:41.140 so they looked at the writings

00:42:42.380 of the historian Josephus

00:42:43.400 and Josephus says

00:42:44.280 in the year 70

00:42:45.400 the Romans are destroying Jerusalem 1.00

00:42:47.900 the temple atop the temple mount

00:42:50.060 in flames

00:42:50.760 the last Jews of Jerusalem 0.99

00:42:52.360 seek refuge from the Romans 1.00

00:42:53.560 where?

00:42:54.180 in the drainage channel

00:42:55.320 beneath the pilgrimage road

00:42:56.780 the ancient sewer system

00:42:58.020 archaeologists find

00:43:02.380 whole cooking pots

00:43:03.360 meaning the people

00:43:04.080 who were down there

00:43:04.700 were there for days

00:43:05.320 weeks, months

00:43:06.040 until the Romans 0.95

00:43:06.980 find them all 1.00

00:43:07.740 and kill them all 1.00

00:43:08.900 now the Romans 1.00

00:43:10.500 were so proud of their conquest

00:43:11.900 over Jerusalem

00:43:12.940 that they meant

00:43:13.360 a commemorative coin

00:43:14.180 here's the Roman emperor

00:43:15.180 Vespasian

00:43:15.740 and on the coin

00:43:16.820 you have a Roman legionnaire

00:43:17.800 towering above

00:43:18.460 a Jewish woman

00:43:19.200 on her knees crying

00:43:19.960 on the coin

00:43:20.880 it says Judea capta

00:43:22.480 Judea has been captured

00:43:23.560 and here you have

00:43:25.040 the arch of Titus in Rome

00:43:26.380 on the arch

00:43:27.740 you have the temple treasures

00:43:28.560 that were being marched

00:43:30.140 out of Jerusalem

00:43:30.700 and into Rome

00:43:31.320 now along this road

00:43:34.040 along the pilgrimage road here

00:43:35.320 archaeologists find

00:43:36.320 hundreds if not thousands

00:43:37.720 of these small bronze coins

00:43:39.640 dating back to the period

00:43:41.060 from 66 to 70

00:43:42.220 the period known as

00:43:42.900 the Great Revolt

00:43:43.600 the Great Jewish Revolt

00:43:44.600 for Freedom

00:43:45.040 against the Roman occupation

00:43:46.740 and scholars have long wondered

00:43:48.580 why are they minting these coins

00:43:49.600 because at that time

00:43:50.440 the coins were worthless

00:43:51.240 they had no monetary value

00:43:52.620 and if they really wanted

00:43:53.760 to fight the Romans

00:43:54.500 what should they use the metal for?

00:43:55.620 to make weapons

00:43:56.600 why are they wasting it

00:43:57.620 on a worthless currency?

00:43:58.980 I want to show you

00:43:59.460 one such coin

00:44:00.620 this coin here

00:44:01.980 is 2,000 years old

00:44:03.780 take a look at this here

00:44:04.980 2,000 years old

00:44:06.800 and that coin

00:44:08.220 it says in ancient

00:44:09.480 Hebrew writing

00:44:10.200 for the freedom

00:44:11.360 of Zion

00:44:12.460 Zion of course 1.00

00:44:13.580 is another name

00:44:14.120 for Jerusalem

00:44:14.700 that coin represents

00:44:16.040 a hope

00:44:16.440 a wish

00:44:17.420 a dream

00:44:18.400 and a prayer

00:44:18.860 that one day

00:44:20.520 the Jewish people

00:44:21.480 will return to Jerusalem 0.96

00:44:22.300 as sovereign

00:44:22.760 the words on that coin

00:44:24.300 for a free Jerusalem

00:44:25.640 they've come true

00:44:26.920 right

00:44:27.480 it took a little bit longer

00:44:28.280 than they thought it would

00:44:29.060 but that hope

00:44:29.560 that wish

00:44:30.000 that dream

00:44:30.380 and that prayer

00:44:30.900 is coming true

00:44:31.980 before our eyes

00:44:32.640 and there is a free Jerusalem

00:44:33.560 today for people

00:44:34.140 of all faiths and backgrounds

00:44:35.120 this is not just

00:44:36.340 another piece of history

00:44:37.220 it's a continuation

00:44:38.320 of a story

00:44:39.100 that's been going on

00:44:40.400 for thousands of years

00:44:41.220 the people who will walk

00:44:42.060 this road in the future

00:44:42.880 it's their ancestors

00:44:44.140 who walked on it

00:44:44.940 2,000 years ago

00:44:45.940 who worshipped

00:44:47.180 the same God

00:44:47.800 had the same language

00:44:48.920 customs

00:44:49.340 traditions

00:44:49.740 and festivals

00:44:50.240 it's alive

00:44:51.020 it's real

00:44:51.880 and we're bringing it back here

00:44:53.400 in this excavation

00:44:54.800 one of the things

00:44:56.360 that's really cool

00:44:57.000 about the pilgrimage road

00:44:58.040 is that for Christians

00:44:59.200 there is 100% certainty

00:45:00.720 this is where Jesus walked

00:45:01.640 there may be a lot of questions

00:45:02.760 about where Jesus was

00:45:03.640 at different times

00:45:04.200 in the Bible

00:45:04.560 there's no question

00:45:05.720 that Jesus walked

00:45:06.580 the pilgrimage road

00:45:07.200 because all the Jews did 1.00

00:45:08.140 there's a rock there

00:45:09.920 where speakers would stand

00:45:11.100 and they'd make

00:45:11.480 political statements

00:45:12.260 probably Jesus was the guy

00:45:13.800 on the side

00:45:14.280 yelling at people

00:45:14.940 stop worrying so much

00:45:15.720 about the specifics

00:45:16.400 of your sacrifice

00:45:17.000 and start worrying

00:45:17.700 about your closeness

00:45:18.440 with God

00:45:19.660 and everybody's probably

00:45:20.860 looking at Jesus

00:45:21.900 and like who's that nut job

00:45:23.340 like nothing will come of him

00:45:24.960 they move on with their day

00:45:25.760 a 2,000 year old

00:45:28.480 ancient soapbox

00:45:29.600 the only one of its kind

00:45:30.760 found in Jerusalem

00:45:31.480 and you can imagine

00:45:32.440 when those millions of pilgrims

00:45:33.600 are going up to the temple

00:45:34.560 you can imagine

00:45:35.580 the likes of whom

00:45:36.320 2,000 years ago

00:45:37.300 would get up here

00:45:38.140 and preach

00:45:39.140 a religious message

00:45:40.800 a political message

00:45:41.580 an ethical message

00:45:42.360 this is where it's happening

00:45:43.420 with the shops and stalls

00:45:44.900 all along the way

00:45:45.880 this is the biblical superhighway

00:45:47.360 the beating heart of Jerusalem

00:45:48.460 2,000 years ago

00:45:49.840 speaker's corner

00:45:50.500 speaker's corner

00:45:51.140 the original Hyde Park

00:45:52.120 right

00:45:52.800 for the Jewish people

00:45:54.600 for early Christianity

00:45:56.180 this is where

00:45:57.260 the heritage

00:45:58.180 the values that have shaped

00:45:59.260 western civilization

00:46:00.340 civilization in many respects

00:46:01.840 playing out right

00:46:02.860 where we're standing

00:46:03.340 right here

00:46:03.820 it's hard to see a soapbox

00:46:05.440 without wanting to climb it

00:46:06.620 don't you think?

00:46:08.820 we gotta get some protesters over

00:46:10.540 yeah

00:46:10.800 it's not gonna work

00:46:12.060 exactly

00:46:12.420 that's the thing about Jerusalem

00:46:14.940 is that

00:46:15.320 when stuff gets destroyed

00:46:16.500 it doesn't get fully destroyed

00:46:17.400 it just gets kind of built

00:46:18.220 on top of

00:46:18.820 which is the story of civilization

00:46:20.060 in a lot of ways

00:46:20.740 right

00:46:20.920 we like to pretend that

00:46:22.180 when we level things

00:46:23.140 they're completely leveled

00:46:24.020 nothing is completely leveled

00:46:25.480 it's mostly leveled

00:46:26.340 no matter how hard

00:46:27.600 the communists try

00:46:28.960 you mean

00:46:29.460 to obliterate the past

00:46:31.600 and build the new man

00:46:33.080 that's also the nature

00:46:35.060 of human beings

00:46:35.720 like we

00:46:36.100 we don't really want to

00:46:37.260 clear all the debris

00:46:37.960 you gotta have something

00:46:39.500 to build on

00:46:40.040 this is that idea

00:46:41.760 of a foundation stone too

00:46:43.160 is that if our

00:46:44.020 perception is hierarchical

00:46:46.020 which seems to be the case

00:46:47.280 you either have

00:46:48.800 a foundation stone

00:46:49.860 or you have

00:46:51.440 fragmentation

00:46:52.840 those are the only options

00:46:54.300 right

00:46:54.560 and we know what

00:46:55.540 the psychological consequences

00:46:56.920 of fragmentation are

00:46:58.020 there's two

00:46:58.740 anxiety

00:47:00.040 because it marks fragmentation

00:47:02.520 like anxiety occurs

00:47:03.820 when you have

00:47:04.160 too many pathways forward

00:47:05.300 and hopelessness

00:47:07.080 and the reason you get hopeless

00:47:08.500 is because

00:47:09.140 if you don't know

00:47:10.380 where you're going

00:47:11.300 no positive emotion

00:47:14.360 can mark out the path

00:47:15.540 because that positive emotion

00:47:16.980 specifies movement forward

00:47:18.340 on a path

00:47:18.960 and so

00:47:20.100 if the

00:47:21.280 if there's no

00:47:22.440 hierarchy that unites

00:47:24.740 you get fragmentation

00:47:26.400 and if you get fragmentation

00:47:27.720 you get anxiety

00:47:28.460 and hopelessness

00:47:29.120 and that's that

00:47:30.360 there's no

00:47:30.840 there's no getting around that

00:47:32.020 that's what those systems

00:47:33.200 are there to mark

00:47:34.100 and so

00:47:35.500 that's why the monotheistic impulse

00:47:37.640 is so interesting

00:47:38.480 because it's an impulse to

00:47:39.940 unify everything

00:47:42.120 well and to

00:47:42.800 make it hierarchical

00:47:44.680 in the most fundamental sense

00:47:46.020 right

00:47:46.220 it's like well

00:47:46.740 does it

00:47:47.580 hit a pinnacle

00:47:49.120 and the answer is

00:47:50.460 well to the degree

00:47:51.140 that it's hierarchical

00:47:52.680 effectively

00:47:54.140 then it hits a pinnacle

00:47:55.500 and then the question is

00:47:56.620 well what should

00:47:57.440 this is the question

00:47:58.500 right

00:47:58.760 what should be at the pinnacle

00:47:59.800 or what should be the base

00:48:01.120 those are two different metaphors

00:48:02.920 so part of what the biblical corpus

00:48:04.820 is trying to do

00:48:05.580 is to take

00:48:06.180 characterizations of

00:48:08.180 the

00:48:09.000 the

00:48:10.180 positive patriarchal

00:48:12.000 animating spirit

00:48:12.980 that's a good way of thinking about it

00:48:14.540 multiple characterizations

00:48:16.180 of that spirit

00:48:17.100 and then to make this insistence

00:48:19.380 by aggregating the books

00:48:20.600 that

00:48:21.360 all of those manifestations

00:48:22.960 of those

00:48:24.000 somewhat

00:48:24.740 discriminable spirits

00:48:27.200 are manifestations

00:48:27.940 of the same central thing

00:48:29.160 right

00:48:29.380 so you could think

00:48:30.200 that the central animating spirit

00:48:32.300 for Noah

00:48:32.860 is the intuition

00:48:34.260 that calls you

00:48:35.400 to batten down the hatches

00:48:36.500 when

00:48:36.740 if you're wise

00:48:37.860 when a time of crisis is coming

00:48:39.320 so that's a spirit

00:48:40.380 that might seize you

00:48:41.380 it might seize multiple people

00:48:42.900 at the same time

00:48:43.560 and it's a spirit

00:48:44.100 you could attend to

00:48:45.020 and allow to inhabit you

00:48:46.160 or not

00:48:46.780 so

00:48:47.840 and then in Abraham

00:48:48.920 God is the spirit

00:48:50.160 that calls Abraham

00:48:51.420 out of his

00:48:52.340 out of his

00:48:54.100 hyper security

00:48:55.500 and wealth

00:48:56.120 in some sense

00:48:56.700 into adventure

00:48:57.580 right

00:48:57.860 and then the juxtaposition

00:48:59.440 of those stories

00:49:00.240 that's metonymy

00:49:01.040 the juxtaposition

00:49:01.920 of those stories

00:49:02.560 implies that

00:49:03.600 spirit A

00:49:04.560 and spirit B

00:49:05.280 are in some sense

00:49:06.220 manifestations

00:49:06.880 you bet

00:49:07.580 it's continuous

00:49:08.620 so the Bible

00:49:09.400 is doing that continually

00:49:10.520 it's like

00:49:11.040 and it's not

00:49:12.120 propositional

00:49:13.740 it's not

00:49:14.240 tempting to explain

00:49:15.580 God

00:49:16.060 as

00:49:16.920 like a meta object

00:49:18.640 in some sense

00:49:19.320 or an object

00:49:19.760 in the world

00:49:20.260 it's an animating spirit

00:49:21.680 it's a

00:49:22.160 it's a pattern

00:49:23.100 of perception

00:49:23.760 and action

00:49:24.320 and not

00:49:25.220 the pattern

00:49:26.180 of the thing

00:49:26.780 that's being perceived

00:49:27.720 in the object

00:49:28.360 it's the pattern

00:49:29.320 of perception

00:49:29.860 itself

00:49:30.400 and so then

00:49:31.460 when you have

00:49:31.860 the union of Athens

00:49:32.720 and Jerusalem

00:49:33.360 in some sense

00:49:34.140 you say

00:49:34.480 well

00:49:34.740 fair enough

00:49:35.680 God is the pattern 0.94

00:49:37.580 of perception

00:49:38.240 and not the object

00:49:39.120 but the juxtaposition

00:49:40.640 would say

00:49:41.160 the pattern

00:49:42.160 of perception

00:49:42.800 is seeing

00:49:43.480 a reflection

00:49:44.180 in the object

00:49:44.960 that's similar

00:49:45.860 to the pattern

00:49:47.260 of perception

00:49:47.840 itself

00:49:48.160 and that would be

00:49:48.900 something like

00:49:49.580 the logos

00:49:50.060 right

00:49:50.700 so the

00:49:51.120 yeah

00:49:51.360 the logos

00:49:52.260 of nature

00:49:53.100 and the logos

00:49:54.120 of the spirit

00:49:54.900 unite

00:49:55.680 and that's

00:49:56.380 western civilization

00:49:57.340 modern people

00:50:01.380 often ask themselves

00:50:02.800 why do I have

00:50:03.700 to study history

00:50:04.680 well you're

00:50:06.160 a historical being

00:50:07.180 you need to know

00:50:08.740 who you are

00:50:09.380 and where you came from

00:50:10.400 and what you stand on

00:50:11.900 why you think

00:50:13.580 the things you think

00:50:14.780 what is the appropriate

00:50:16.600 manner to live

00:50:17.620 those aren't

00:50:18.620 optional questions

00:50:19.620 well they are

00:50:20.300 because you can fail

00:50:21.160 to answer all of them

00:50:22.060 and then

00:50:22.400 but then you live

00:50:23.260 in a chaotic

00:50:24.360 desolate

00:50:25.040 nihilistic wasteland

00:50:26.600 of anxiety

00:50:27.700 and hopelessness

00:50:28.580 the alternative

00:50:29.960 is to place yourself

00:50:32.020 in the proper tradition

00:50:33.240 and you have to understand

00:50:34.800 what proper tradition is

00:50:36.140 and part of that

00:50:37.220 understanding

00:50:37.800 is to

00:50:38.320 start to grapple

00:50:39.540 with the complexities

00:50:40.700 and realities

00:50:41.560 of those traditions

00:50:42.600 if Jerusalem

00:50:44.500 is the idea

00:50:45.160 of man meeting God

00:50:46.340 and this is where

00:50:47.120 revelation

00:50:47.700 becomes reality

00:50:49.080 then the question

00:50:50.240 becomes how does man

00:50:50.820 deal with revelation

00:50:51.540 how do we actually

00:50:52.420 work in a world

00:50:53.580 in which values

00:50:54.220 are discoverable

00:50:54.940 in which they're important

00:50:55.860 and that requires

00:50:57.620 that reason

00:50:58.460 come to the fore

00:50:59.300 and reason become

00:50:59.920 a paramount concern

00:51:00.800 for human beings

00:51:01.560 how does man

00:51:03.680 respond to a universe

00:51:04.560 that is knowable

00:51:05.380 what kind of resources

00:51:06.260 can human beings

00:51:06.960 bring to a mysterious

00:51:08.600 but knowable universe

00:51:09.700 that other half

00:51:12.020 that rational component

00:51:13.240 is really cultivated

00:51:14.460 to the utmost

00:51:15.220 in Greece

00:51:15.700 well you might ask

00:51:19.580 what's wrong

00:51:20.400 with being a populist

00:51:21.480 if the people want it

00:51:22.320 then it must be good

00:51:22.980 but that obviously

00:51:23.760 is not true

00:51:24.400 yeah you just look

00:51:24.680 at Twitter

00:51:25.120 right

00:51:25.400 and I'm not saying

00:51:28.620 slavery isn't wrong 1.00

00:51:29.840 the issue is

00:51:30.740 why is it wrong

00:51:31.800 is it wrong

00:51:32.280 because people voted it so

00:51:33.480 well right

00:51:34.280 no it's exactly that

00:51:35.640 it's not that at all

00:51:36.600 we stop by the shrine

00:51:38.580 of the book

00:51:38.940 we find it astonishing

00:51:39.900 that texts are preserved

00:51:40.900 for this long

00:51:41.420 or that ideas are preserved

00:51:42.320 for this long

00:51:43.000 but it's sort of

00:51:43.820 the natural state of things

00:51:44.760 we think that

00:51:45.620 creative innovation

00:51:46.820 is the standard mode

00:51:48.260 of human being

00:51:49.080 and that's just not true

00:51:50.260 if you're placed in paradise

00:51:52.640 the first thing you do

00:51:53.320 is you vacation

00:51:53.880 right

00:51:54.220 Mai Tai's on the beach

00:51:55.300 man

00:51:55.600 exactly

00:51:55.940 that's an amazing thing

00:51:56.880 in Genesis

00:51:57.280 like even in paradise

00:51:58.260 human beings have to have 1.00

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00:53:00.760 Transcription by CastingWords

00:53:30.760 CastingWords

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - February 06, 2025

Jerusalem & the Axis Mundi ｜ Foundations of the West Episode I with Ben Shapiro

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