Milo Yiannopoulos： Past, present and future
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 50 minutes
Words per Minute
176.21733
Summary
In Episode 9 of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Jordan's daughter, Mikayla Peterson, presents her father's conversation with Milo Yiannous, recorded on April 11th, 2019. In this episode, we give a brief background on Milo, which many of you might not be aware of, including his early life in the UK and how he ended up in the United States. Dr. Peterson also provides a detailed account of the events leading up to the events that led to the death of Milo, and offers some insight into what may have happened to him in the lead-up to his untimely and tragic death. Dr. B. P. Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety. We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling. With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Jordan Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series, and provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward. If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better. Go to Dailywire Plus now and start watching Dr. Pryce's new series on Depression and Anxiety. Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve. - let's talk about the brighter futures you deserve! - Let's Talk About It! - Dr. , Dr. J. Jordan B Peterson (featuring a man of contradictions and contradictions, a man who is a hard man to categorize himself into one of the most complex and complex characters in the most complicated of all of us, and a man with a mind of contradictions. . , we're not here to help you become a better version of yourself, not just better at being a better you, we're here to make you feel better, not less alone, not better, but more like you, and more of you, more of a better, and you, too, and so that you can be a better person. Thank you for listening to you, friendlier, more like that you, I'm not alone, and I'm here for you, you can help you, so you can feel your best, and that you're not alone in the next episode of the podcast.
Transcript
00:00:00.960
Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.
00:00:06.480
Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:12.740
We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:20.100
With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:27.420
He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:00:35.360
If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:00:41.780
Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:00:47.460
Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:00:57.420
Welcome to Season 2, Episode 9 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.
00:01:03.680
I'm Mikayla Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.
00:01:07.000
Today, we're presenting his conversation with Milo Yiannopoulos, recorded April 11th, 2019.
00:01:12.780
This podcast will give you a bit of a background on Milo, which many of you might not be aware of.
00:01:19.160
Dad is still out for the count for the meantime.
00:01:24.100
We're still dealing with a health crisis, although Mom's recovering from surgery like a champ.
00:01:37.600
The American suckers out there don't get Monday off.
00:01:41.080
When we return, Dad's conversation with Milo Yiannopoulos.
00:01:58.540
Part journalist, part performance artist, part agent provocateur, part comedian at wit.
00:02:05.960
Yiannopoulos is a man of immense and complex self-contradiction.
00:02:09.300
He's half Greek and half Irish, but is known as an Englishman to the Americans with whom he has communicated extensively.
00:02:19.880
He married his long-term boyfriend, an African-American man in Hawaii in 2017, but faces frequent accusations of racism.
00:02:28.920
He is, or was, strangely attractive to young American Republicans, and completed a successful and controversy-ridden tour of U.S. universities in 2016 and 2017.
00:02:42.960
For at least two years, he was one of the most well-known internet celebrities, let's say, on the political front.
00:02:49.400
He caused more uproar than any other single person that I can think of.
00:02:53.340
He collected his fair share of enemies along the way.
00:02:56.300
He's often accused, for example, of being an alt-right supporter, an accusation justified in the view of those who oppose him by his association with Breitbart, for whom he was an editor.
00:03:08.940
In my view, for what it's worth, Milo was such a figure of inner contradiction and outer controversy that I believed from the beginning that his time was numbered.
00:03:18.780
Nonetheless, the circumstances of his demise were unpredictable, I would say, and that's in keeping with his apparent destiny.
00:03:25.540
After revealing details of his early sexual experiences at the hands of a 29-year-old priest, whom he refused to name,
00:03:33.580
he stated that he was an active participant in the events, and that such occurrences were far more common and far more consensual than people were willing to admit.
00:03:43.000
I don't think he ever recovered from the controversy that those comments generated.
00:03:46.980
I should finish by saying that Milo is definitely now on the list of those who no one acceptably socially should ever speak to, which I suppose is one of the reasons why I'm talking to him.
00:03:58.200
I want to know what happened to him in his own words, and I don't really give a damn if that's politically incorrect.
00:04:04.040
Thanks, Milo, for agreeing to be on my channel and podcast.
00:04:09.980
I take a slightly less fatalistic view of my prospects than your introduction would suggest, but certainly I went through an extraordinary tumble, and I'm happy to share my thoughts about it with you.
00:04:24.860
Yeah, well, let's start by reviewing some of your history, if you wouldn't mind.
00:04:29.920
Tell me, let's start with a bit of your history in the UK before you came to the US.
00:04:35.500
It's been long enough so that I think some biographical information would be useful for people.
00:04:40.520
So tell me about your life in the UK before you came to the US, and then let's start talking about what happened to you as soon as you came over to North America.
00:04:51.460
Sure. I had a very unhappy life, particularly a very unhappy 20s in London.
00:04:59.920
I started off as a journalist in some quite prestigious publications.
00:05:04.660
I was in a relationship that was, I don't think, healthy or happy for either person involved.
00:05:12.840
I was searching, I think. I was looking. I couldn't work out yet what I was, what I was for, what my purpose was.
00:05:22.220
And it wasn't until I got to America I discovered what it was.
00:05:26.440
But I started to explore at least what would eventually become my, I suppose, my civic function as bomb thrower and provocateur.
00:05:37.680
Right at the beginning of my career in journalism, I mean, I was fairly predictably come from a broken home, not much love for or from either parent.
00:05:46.880
And I started, I got lucky, a combination, I guess, of luck and talent, writing for the Telegraph, which is the most prestigious newspaper in Britain.
00:05:56.720
And I began to notice the gap between the world that I was being asked to describe and the world that I could see existed.
00:06:05.840
At the time, I was writing about technology and was being asked to say that women were having a dreadful time of it in the emerging startup ecosystem in London, which, as far as I could tell, was the exact opposite of the truth.
00:06:20.120
And eventually these sort of fissures got wider and wider to the point where I, I sort of had this, this moment where I realized that my profession was a crock of, you know what?
00:06:35.420
And then if I wanted to, if I wanted to do something worthwhile with my life, I should either blow it up from the inside by being one or pick something else to do.
00:06:43.600
And that was around the time that I attracted the attention of Breitbart, the site in the U.S.
00:06:51.280
And I started from London writing from Breitbart in the U.S.
00:06:53.920
And at that time, I didn't really know what it was.
00:06:55.520
I never met Andrew Breitbart and I didn't know who he was either.
00:06:58.760
No, I don't think anybody knew what it was or who, what it was to begin with.
00:07:02.600
And it's a funny thing when you look at things in retrospect, you know, you get involved with people in organizations that develop a particular way over time.
00:07:11.660
And then it looks from a historical perspective, like that was self-evident from the beginning, but certainly not when you're dealing with a new organization.
00:07:22.400
I don't think that the values of Breitbart changed a lot, but I think perhaps it's, it's modus operandi.
00:07:28.800
I think perhaps the way that it conducted itself as an organization shifted into high gear when Steve Bannon and I were there.
00:07:36.780
And I was doing the cultural stuff and Steve was using the rest of the site as the sort of battering ram politically.
00:07:44.320
So, I mean, I bear a large part of the responsibility for Breitbart becoming what it eventually became, although I don't think they've held on to that legacy very well.
00:07:53.180
I think it's a little sad the way that they're sort of, when I was there, we used to make the news and now they're sort of chasing off the turning point, you know, with stories that could have been written in 2015, 16.
00:08:04.380
I don't think they've managed to maintain the culturally defining excitement that was there when I was there, which I think is a function of me and Steve working together.
00:08:15.460
I suppose my center of gravity just started shifting to the U.S.
00:08:21.660
I started getting invitations to go and speak at colleges and sooner or later, one day I just sort of thought there were six of them in a row.
00:08:29.400
So I thought there was no point flying home between them.
00:08:31.000
I may as well just stay and just do sort of college after college.
00:08:34.820
And then suddenly I found myself booking more of them and wondering why I should bother going home.
00:08:41.280
And my center of gravity editorially and in other ways was shifting to the U.S. too.
00:08:48.500
So I, over the course of six or nine months, began writing more about the States, thinking more about the States, being in it, talking about it.
00:08:57.360
And then, I suppose, fast forward a year perhaps, and I was one of the two or three people driving, you know, Breitbart as this extraordinary, momentous, fascinating, dysfunctional editorial force through the last election.
00:09:18.080
So what was it that attracted you, do you think, to the United States and the political concerns there?
00:09:28.240
I don't think Britain handles iconoclasts very well.
00:09:33.300
And it particularly doesn't handle bombastic ones.
00:09:36.340
And I think a lot of people with outsized personalities find themselves investigating America as an alternative birth, because I think America has a much higher tolerance for outsized personalities.
00:09:51.700
Yeah, well, I mean, it's pretty clear that you had some of the characteristics that made people stars, you know, that make people personalities.
00:09:59.780
That was obvious pretty much from the step of the first.
00:10:02.820
Well, this is why I'm not worried in the long term about my career prospects.
00:10:05.600
You know, I had a stratospheric rise over a couple of years and, you know, a painful tumble.
00:10:16.000
And I've got 40 years ahead of me, you know, of whatever I choose to do with it.
00:10:20.780
So I'm not worried in the long term about my career prospects.
00:10:23.840
Good. Well, we can talk about your dissent and the sort of catastrophe that accompanied it and maybe about how you see being pulled out of that.
00:10:36.800
So what in the world do you think made you so attractive to American Republicans?
00:10:42.880
I mean, this is one of the things that struck me about you right from the beginning, because it's not exactly like you're a poster boy for what you would assume conservative American Republicans would be attracted to.
00:10:55.660
Well, I think they quite liked the fact that I was reflecting their views in a package that you would more often think would be a liberal.
00:11:06.500
And, of course, I, you know, made that part of the act and part of the brand.
00:11:09.880
It's kind of like, you know, all these things and yet still Republican.
00:11:14.440
Anyway, there's a joylessness about a lot of conservative activists, authors and speakers, and there's a joylessness in intellectual dark web, too.
00:11:27.120
And I look at the public intellectuals and commentators and speakers who are currently enjoying a moment in the sun, and each of them is in their own way quite joyless, quite devoid of mirth.
00:11:46.260
And I think that people liked my sense of mischief, and they liked the fact that I was always smiling.
00:11:53.420
And I think it's, I mean, it's unusual to see somebody talking about really serious things, who is the subject of the most extraordinary and relentless abuse, who nonetheless is always smiling.
00:12:10.660
And I think people find that very mesmerizing and very attractive, because...
00:12:14.260
And very perplexing and difficult to understand, given the circumstances and the apparent seriousness of the topics.
00:12:21.780
You know, I mean, there is something to be said.
00:12:23.180
Because I think it's to do with, I mean, you know, joy is Christianity's great gift to Western civilization.
00:12:31.180
Laughter, you know, the medieval church is, you know, this place of song and of dance.
00:12:39.720
The only places where there's a really impassioned, happy spirit of worship is in black churches.
00:12:47.360
But white evangelical Protestantism in the U.S. has become, I think, quite suffocating and joyless.
00:12:55.660
I think the public square as a whole, in general, is a miserable place.
00:13:03.720
If you turn the television on, people are miserable.
00:13:06.120
I think there's something about me, there's something maybe missing in my brain that doesn't get ground down by it.
00:13:13.440
And I'm watching, you know, I had my, you know, moment in the sun.
00:13:17.800
Some other people are having a moment in the sun now.
00:13:23.480
And I'm watching them, and I'm watching them all getting ground down.
00:13:28.300
Well, that's a good, that's a real question that's of interest to me from a psychological perspective.
00:13:32.820
I mean, you know, my suspicions, it's obviously that you're extremely extroverted.
00:13:39.660
I'm not claiming any particular brilliance for noting that.
00:13:44.080
And also that you're extremely open, and that's the creativity dimension.
00:13:47.580
But I'm wondering about your scores on neuroticism.
00:13:51.880
It's like, you were subject to a tremendous amount of controversy.
00:13:57.400
And then quite a precipitous fall under strange and complicated circumstances.
00:14:10.320
And you just described yourself as a relatively joyful person.
00:14:15.640
I think that, listen, I mean, you know, conservatives are only out and off the playing field when
00:14:25.740
Because there's such a, there's so few of us in such a wide open market.
00:14:30.600
The reason I'm not worried about my prospects in the long term is I still wake up every day
00:14:34.620
with joy in my heart, brimming with energy and ideas.
00:14:38.500
Most, I don't know anybody in public life, not one person in public life,
00:14:43.500
who could have gone through what I went through and not been broken by it.
00:14:51.800
And I think that that's down to a combination of personal characteristics that I don't think
00:14:58.500
And that's, part of that is, you know, not being, it's impossible to intimidate me, for instance.
00:15:13.440
I don't feel, perhaps to the same degree that other people do, embarrassment and shame.
00:15:20.140
So I don't mind playing the fool, playing Falstaff, clowning, you know.
00:15:25.720
I don't mind subverting myself, laughing at myself, because through that, I'm able to point
00:15:31.840
to truths that are real and big and beautiful and important.
00:15:40.160
So I don't, and I think that's part of the same thing.
00:15:42.120
I don't mind humbling myself, because I play at having a big ego, but I don't really.
00:15:48.140
And I'm not ground down or broken or upset by things that, you know, that don't matter that much.
00:15:59.280
I have achieved more than 99.8% of journalists, political activists, you know, public figures.
00:16:08.060
You and I are the only people who have achieved remotely close to our level of success in our,
00:16:12.940
you know, in the last 10 years worth of libertarian, conservative, IDW, you know, whatever,
00:16:19.880
whatever this grand nexus ecosystem is that we both belong to.
00:16:24.640
And you and I are the only two people who, you know, you and I are the two who have achieved
00:16:32.940
You're fortunate and nothing bad has really happened to you yet.
00:16:37.440
I can't think of anything really awful that's happened to you, aside from the Cambridge thing,
00:16:43.300
I think you brought that on yourself, and I don't think it was too much of a big deal anyway.
00:16:46.860
But nothing really bad has happened to you yet.
00:16:50.480
I had to stand up in front of the world and tell them that I had been sexually abused
00:16:57.060
as a child, and that this was why I'd spoken loosely and incautiously and used a formulation
00:17:01.500
that I regretted about something that had happened to me, and at the same time try to also say,
00:17:07.800
well, I'm not going to stop making jokes about that or anything else.
00:17:10.660
For other people, I think that level of public ritual humiliation would simply have snapped
00:17:26.940
The only person I know in my personal life, a friend who has similar qualities is Anne Coulter,
00:17:39.620
And the interesting thing is, it's not enough to say that we're, let's say, sociopathic,
00:17:44.600
because quite clearly we're both not, wouldn't be able to have some of the insights we do,
00:17:49.240
and we wouldn't have the love in our lives that we do if we were sociopathic.
00:17:53.460
But we do both have an ability to just pick things up, put them over there,
00:18:02.640
Well, that seems to me to be that relatively rare combination of extreme extroversion and
00:18:16.100
Well, some people are just not that affected emotionally by negative events, you know.
00:18:21.580
Some people are devastated by the smallest of obstacles,
00:18:24.360
and some people can roll with punches that would take a normal person out
00:18:36.440
but there are things that are actually significant,
00:18:38.160
whether it's to do with my family or, you know, my loved one or whatever it is.
00:18:45.180
But there are things that in my brain are emotionally significant, serious things,
00:18:50.320
worthy of unfettered access to my emotions, if you like.
00:18:55.240
And they have that, and they produce very strong reactions in both directions.
00:18:59.820
I can even be hot-headed, you know, when I'm defending somebody I love, for instance.
00:19:04.760
But there's another world, which is the professional world,
00:19:16.320
This is why I've always thought of you as a kind of a trickster, you know.
00:19:23.220
There is a game-like element to what you're doing.
00:19:31.200
as playing a very complex and very enjoyable game of...
00:19:34.640
And very, you know, a game of snakes and ladders.
00:19:38.000
And just because I hit a ladder on one of my first turns,
00:19:42.100
and then immediately the snake took me back to the front row.
00:19:46.320
You know, in fact, it just means you've learned the rules.
00:19:49.840
So, that's, I suppose, why I find it difficult to take too seriously,
00:19:54.800
you know, harrowing introspection about, you know, whatever.
00:19:59.440
Because it's not how I apprehend the situation.
00:20:02.160
I can look dispassionately at what happened and why.
00:20:05.120
And we can talk about that, and I have some ideas about that.
00:20:15.820
I don't have anything to offload about it, really.
00:20:21.860
when that conversation about your early childhood sexual experiences first came out,
00:20:29.340
I listened to it, and I thought that there was tremendous trouble brewing there, you know,
00:20:37.160
And if you remember, I phoned you at that point and suggested that we had a conversation,
00:20:42.480
and we made some efforts to manage that that never came to fruition.
00:20:49.420
And so, I'd like to, if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you about that situation.
00:20:56.600
Because, you know, I had a lot of mixed feelings about what you said, like many people.
00:21:03.480
And they weren't particularly judgmental, by the way.
00:21:09.620
And you correct me if I'm wrong here, because I want to get this story straight.
00:21:13.800
You related some experiences you had with a priest who was twice your age, right?
00:21:26.740
I think he was a little older than that, actually.
00:21:33.980
I think I thought that he was younger than he was at the time,
00:21:38.300
and subsequently found out he was perhaps 10 years older than I thought he was.
00:21:41.240
Okay, okay, so, but there was a significant age gap.
00:21:46.980
And so, arguably, he was someone who was in a position of authority,
00:21:52.860
and that what he did with you was something that he shouldn't have done.
00:21:58.080
And also, it's highly probable, given the nature of such things,
00:22:02.860
that you were by no means his only, let's say, target.
00:22:10.500
the first thing that struck me about the way that you formulated it was
00:22:22.820
And that actually struck me as rather admirable,
00:22:31.880
but, you know, I was of sufficient age to have a mind of my own,
00:22:35.820
and this was something I was pursuing of my own volition.
00:22:41.760
And, you know, when you talk about the abuse of authority or whatever,
00:22:44.760
I've never met an authority I recognize or respect.
00:22:50.360
I have never encountered a person in a position of responsibility or authority
00:22:58.480
merely by virtue of their office or their position.
00:23:02.480
I sort of constitutionally don't recognize authority,
00:23:05.520
so that element of it did not strike me until someone told me.
00:23:13.400
because I don't imagine that you were much different,
00:23:15.320
in some sense, when you were 14 than you are now,
00:23:20.980
You know, you're an assertive and provocative person,
00:23:27.360
and I can certainly see that intrinsic respect for authority,
00:23:31.940
which so oddly often characterizes conservatives, by the way,
00:23:43.880
by constantly taking potshots at the institutions
00:23:47.600
that you also secretly love and are grateful for,
00:23:50.940
but you are dedicated to keeping them on the ground,
00:24:04.320
where journalists are seeking to participate in that prestige,
00:24:23.000
That seems, given my interactions with British journalists,
00:24:26.800
that seems like a perfectly appropriate statement.
00:24:30.360
Now, despite the fact that when I heard you speak
00:24:35.600
and my admiration for your refusal to play innocent victim,
00:24:45.620
that I think were more a function of my clinical training,
00:24:49.460
and there were two of them that I'd like to discuss with you.
00:24:55.460
You know, when you think about yourself as a 14-year-old,
00:25:05.340
You don't necessarily think about that 14-year-old
00:25:10.100
And, you know, when you remember your 14-year-old self,
00:25:13.120
and then you go out and you see some 14-year-olds,
00:25:15.880
it's actually quite a shock, or it can be quite a shock,
00:25:24.320
Yeah, than you remember yourself being, you know...
00:25:26.920
Yeah, I think I know where you're going with this,
00:25:33.400
Well, because the second part of what I thought was that,
00:25:38.180
And this is the incredibly tricky part of this conversation,
00:25:44.240
I mean, one of the other things that got you in real trouble,
00:25:47.720
apart from the fact that you wouldn't name your...
00:26:01.280
that this sort of thing happened far more commonly
00:26:17.140
it's not something that can be publicly discussed.
00:26:48.140
I wasn't even going to bring those two things up
00:27:05.920
Even specifically about your particular experience,
00:27:09.980
although I think it's a way into the conversation.
00:27:21.080
And I don't expect this to be an easy conversation.
01:15:26.800
like joining the priesthood you know you give up
01:15:40.680
kind of societal function might even perform an
01:16:23.500
that's definitely a mess that i make no claim to
01:17:11.920
gay men join the priesthood because they want to
01:17:18.100
uh you have to find some other kind of purpose and
01:17:25.860
experimentation yeah it's the license that we're
01:17:32.280
we don't have this other thing um trying to cram
01:17:37.340
again i'm a complete hypocrite on the subject because i live in
01:17:44.600
beautiful monogamous domestic harmony uh so i'm a
01:17:48.600
100 hypocrite on the subject but it just or it still feels to me a shame
01:17:57.920
you know the people who are so overrepresented in artists and musicians
01:18:04.040
uh to sort of condemn them to the same you know
01:18:07.380
the same monotonous drudgery that you breeders have to have to submit to
01:18:12.180
um yes well i can imagine that it's sort of it's it sort of grates against
01:18:16.980
your what would you call it your your anti-authoritarian
01:18:20.860
my rebellious spirit and all the rest of it yeah yeah
01:18:23.820
i'm i'm i'm kind of poetic justice in some sense
01:18:27.300
yeah yeah i i this is this is one of the many things that
01:18:30.340
convinces me that god is real because there's no there's no
01:18:33.000
there's there's a humor in that which could only have come from someone doing
01:18:37.620
it on purpose you know just be like you know what i'm gonna give i'm gonna
01:18:41.480
give you something that's just gonna make just gonna remind you that you don't
01:18:44.360
know it all uh and you and it's going to confound
01:18:46.920
you for the rest of your life and remind you that
01:18:48.680
you too are messy and complicated and on this one subject you are never going to
01:18:52.320
be coherent or logical um good luck with that uh
01:18:55.380
okay so no doubt i have another terrible question for you
01:19:00.240
so i i read um martel's book on the catholic church
01:19:07.240
about homosexuality in the vatican and it's very
01:19:10.980
um contentious book let's say written by a gay man
01:19:16.660
who claims that homosexuality is extraordinarily common in the vatican
01:19:23.500
it is and so and that the kinds of relationships that you
01:19:30.460
common in that culture as they're common in the rest of the culture
01:19:34.380
yes they are so i've written a book on the subject too uh and i can tell you
01:19:40.380
there's a it's called um the lavender mafia uh in the vatican
01:19:44.380
it is uh the the um for those those viewers who don't know
01:19:48.860
um it is a cabal of not just gay bishops but specifically progressive left-wing gay
01:19:58.100
more politically focused than his my book was drawing attention to the fact
01:20:02.140
that the same people who want to water down the liturgy
01:20:04.780
who want um for for you know divorcees to be able to receive communion and want
01:20:12.380
they're the same people who've been covering up child abuse in the church
01:20:16.500
and and it seems that the same people who have been doing the child abuse
01:20:20.480
and covering it up are also the people who are most aggressively pushing for
01:20:24.020
progressive reform um of the catholic liturgy and of catholic practice
01:20:28.660
and this of course resonates with what we know from other industries doesn't it
01:20:32.900
just like hollywood just like the press just like the academy
01:20:36.780
the people who are most aggressively pushing for um progressive free-for-all
01:20:41.040
sexual liberation other people with the ugliest and most depraved skeletons in
01:20:47.040
so um my book was was more about that but i can tell you that
01:20:51.340
um it's absolutely true the mistake that the catholic church has
01:20:54.880
made um and i remain a catholic despite the terrible state
01:21:01.280
of the catholic church um yes and all the other contradictions in your life
01:21:06.280
you know they've never bothered me they've never scared me
01:21:12.680
i'm not i'm not afraid of that i'm quite excited by that because i look
01:21:16.360
forward to a day when i might grow either get closer to a resolution
01:21:25.700
i can imagine ben shapiro would be kept awake at night by this
01:21:30.980
everything in my world to form into a perfectly you know into like some sort
01:21:35.480
of like kantian or wittgensteinian superstructure
01:21:38.120
uh where everything has its right place and that you know and everything is
01:21:41.420
you know it's perfectly organized and all the dependent things are in the right
01:21:44.380
that's not what human beings are like that's not what we are
01:21:48.800
um we're much much more complex and messy than that and i'm
01:21:52.460
very much looking forward to 40 50 years of exploring my own
01:22:01.360
the the i remain i remain a catholic but the the issue that the church has had
01:22:07.380
the mistake that the church has made is turning a blind eye
01:22:10.600
uh as the church would put it to sin um turning a blind eye to
01:22:15.300
rampant gay sex in a vocation that is supposed to be celibate
01:22:22.320
and to associate that hypothetically well the way that martel's claim with the
01:22:29.280
proclivity to cover up the child sexual abuse because of it which is his most
01:22:33.540
radical claim i would say i i don't know if he's wrong about that
01:22:37.520
what i would say is the way that the way the church would put it is you know if
01:22:43.220
right so what what that means in practical terms for the catholic church is
01:22:47.820
because the priesthood is somewhere where lots of gay men go and a blind eye
01:22:53.320
is routinely turned to their sexual peccadilloes even if it's just with each
01:22:57.340
other and there's nothing um non-consensual or abusive going on
01:23:01.140
because it's a sexual free-for-all because it's the kind of place where
01:23:04.940
supposedly transgressive or forbidden things happen routinely with no
01:23:09.060
consequence that it becomes an institution that
01:23:12.000
attracts other kinds of people who have other things to hide
01:23:15.000
like pedophiles where where are you going to go if you
01:23:18.440
have um some kind of of um psychiatric dysfunction or whatever it
01:23:26.320
routinely overlooks or ignores sexual uh wrongdoing
01:23:30.680
of course you are so that's what the church that's what that's what christians
01:23:34.140
mean when they say you know you let one sin and others will follow
01:23:37.160
they don't just mean it in the sense of personal behavior like if you let
01:23:41.300
yourself do one thing you'll let yourself do others
01:23:43.080
but it also works in institutions too and of course lefties will say the
01:23:47.840
reason that all of these problems happen in the catholic church is that
01:23:50.540
priests are required to be celibate the opposite's true they haven't been
01:23:54.020
celibate for a very long time and that's what's created the problem
01:23:56.960
because there's now um an entrenched left-wing gay mafia that effectively
01:24:01.840
runs the catholic church um that has engaged in the systematic cover-up of
01:24:07.200
child abuse so as to protect its own power and that's about as bad as it gets
01:24:13.860
you know in terms of you know global institutions who have lost their way
01:24:18.460
that is as bad as it gets uh i want a black pope because i want um
01:24:23.960
i want there to be a doctrinally conservative because all the all of the
01:24:28.840
catholics in africa are like pre-vatican too they're serious catholics
01:24:32.940
um and it will make it it will make life very difficult for progressives
01:24:36.880
accusing a black pope from africa of being a racist and a sexist you know
01:24:40.800
because he actually wants catholic doctrine to remain catholic doctrine
01:24:43.540
but the present pope is um basically at the head he is not himself a homosexual
01:24:49.240
as far as we know but he does sit at the head of um this
01:24:54.000
lavender mafia um and he is propped up by people like uh um
01:24:59.760
uh cormac murphy o'connor uh from england and wales vincent nichols
01:25:04.100
and all these other um aging 60 70 year old liberal cardinals
01:25:08.960
who are products of the 60s who are soft on communism
01:25:13.420
uh and and what my book was trying to show was that
01:25:16.960
the soft on communism thing is entwined with the abuse with the wrongdoing with
01:25:22.560
everything they're the same people doing everything
01:25:24.500
so uh theodore mccarrick who has the distinction of being the world's only
01:25:28.820
ex-cardinal because um francis had to remove his um
01:25:33.140
his cardinalcy from him uh had to degrade him as the technical term
01:25:46.920
to participate in the choice uh in choosing catholic bishops
01:25:52.700
i mean this hasn't happened since like gregory the seventh the catholic church
01:25:56.340
has been ferocious about choosing its own bishops
01:26:01.660
to the communist party in china uh knowing that catholics are routinely
01:26:10.860
because they they never met a socialist they didn't like
01:26:13.840
and it's that it's that particular 60 70 year old child of the 60s
01:26:19.260
aging hippie liberal that lives in another planet from the rest of us
01:26:29.400
if only if only socialism were tried one more time perhaps
01:26:32.600
perhaps it would be okay this time that that's the world these people live in
01:26:42.200
how pope francis betrayed clerical abuse victims like me
01:26:45.040
and why he has to go uh it's called diabolical so yeah but anyway
01:26:48.860
i talk about that in the book so i'm not not here to book the book but um
01:26:51.560
but no it's it's very interesting how the same people who are far leftists
01:26:55.920
who are pushing for church doctrine to be watered down which has the effect of
01:26:59.340
emptying the pews because when people go to church they want
01:27:01.540
the fire and brimstone they go to be told what to do they want the bible they want
01:27:06.720
right right right they don't you know they don't want
01:27:09.340
they don't want a bishop talking to them and i'm not making this up
01:27:12.140
there are seminaries now where the um where the seminarians are starting to
01:27:16.900
to issue um uh they're starting to give sermons on toxic masculinity
01:27:22.340
this is a church that is that has no no manly men left in it
01:27:26.740
yeah every man in that church is a home mom you know
01:27:29.820
there are no men left in the congregations there are no heterosexual men left in the
01:27:33.520
clergy and this is a church that thinks it has a
01:27:36.040
too many men problem you know um this is a church that and the reason that this
01:27:41.920
subject interested me in addition to my um faith is that this is another arena
01:27:47.060
in which the loss uh of manliness and masculinity and the loss of a proper
01:27:52.180
appreciation of the heroic masculine virtues has led to chaos and disaster
01:27:56.040
because no true father by which i mean the sorts of fatherhood that the priests are
01:28:04.620
supposed to um give up having children in order to to embark upon you know no no
01:28:10.680
spiritual leader um with integrity would stand by and watch children being abused and cover it up
01:28:16.380
this is something that gay people do because they think what they do is wrong so they're
01:28:20.120
happy to cover for somebody else who's doing something wrong too
01:28:22.620
a father a real father doesn't sit idly by while children are being abused
01:28:29.640
he takes you know he takes steps to stop it and he punishes the people who have done wrong
01:28:34.740
okay so that's that's the righteous indignation and outrage of a true father and those and that
01:28:40.900
that appreciation of you know like it's it's right and proper to hate the hateful and we should be
01:28:44.860
outraged about right well and you said that's part of what you've learned over the last couple of years
01:28:49.380
right and but that that heroic manly virtue is something that has been sort of systematically
01:28:54.080
wiped out of the catholic church just like it's been wiped out of other uh places in public life
01:28:59.840
yeah it's gone from journalism like it's gone from academy and it's had results that everybody knows
01:29:04.640
about in all those different arenas so it was interesting to me writing the book finding that
01:29:07.920
most of the problems most of the things that are happening in the catholic church most of the
01:29:15.280
problems the church has got itself into basically boil down to there being no men it's all women and
01:29:21.120
gays and that the vast majority of the child abuse scandal and all the other things that are wrong
01:29:26.880
with the catholic church are a product of the church losing its connection to masculinity and
01:29:33.720
simply having no men left in it oh good well good there's nothing controversial about any of that so
01:29:39.260
that's quite a relief so we don't have to be imperiling that was a joke that was a joke just so you know that i
01:29:48.800
can actually pull one off okay so i want to return to something if you don't mind i want you to tell me
01:29:55.520
what you think the consequences of what happened to you when you were 14 might have been
01:30:09.140
i mean i look if you're not like if i'm not i'm not unwilling to discuss it with you yeah i'm not
01:30:19.260
having a problem being forthcoming yeah i just don't know i know the only thing that i've really thought
01:30:24.920
about is whether or not it might have affected the trajectory of my sexuality and i think that
01:30:31.760
it may well have done but i don't think it on its own was enough to make difference and i think i'm
01:30:37.220
probably right about that also talked about just in this conversation about the transgressive nature of
01:30:44.240
that that that sexuality and now you participated in that even let's say as an active participant
01:30:53.120
and the question is what did that do to you what what did that what did the knowledge of that do to
01:31:01.200
you because you had to live with it i don't know if it's a fair question i don't know if i'm phrasing
01:31:06.500
no no you're phrasing it fine i just don't know the answer to it um in the same way that i don't
01:31:11.960
think anybody can know what quote unquote made them gay you know it's like everybody has is born
01:31:18.360
with i think um everybody is born with a more or less of a predilection whether or not you believe
01:31:23.220
in epigenetics or whatever um some people do some people don't but i think everybody probably
01:31:27.580
has a sort of predisposition uh and coupled with early experiences you end up either mostly having
01:31:34.440
sex with men or not right um i don't think that we're ever conscious of the processes acting on us
01:31:41.340
at the time and therefore it's very difficult it's just pure speculation based on whatever we happen to
01:31:47.160
remember trying to work out what it was that made the difference and i don't think it's i don't think
01:31:53.640
it's something that could ever satisfactorily be answered because simply because we're just not
01:31:57.460
aware of the process is acting on us i don't know if my dad not saving me from you know that
01:32:04.580
household made me you know sort of made some kind of misfire rewired like you know i said something
01:32:12.620
haywire in my brain i don't know whether i resented and just you know just like my mother so much that
01:32:18.100
i went off all women i don't know and i don't think there's ever any way to know and for the same reason
01:32:22.880
i don't think there's any way that i could possibly answer and i don't think there's anything anybody
01:32:26.820
could be on blind speculation and i think that most people who are most people who try to explain
01:32:34.100
i'm so sorry somebody's mowing the lawn um most people who try to explain what abuse might have
01:32:40.440
done to somebody in almost every case i see their political prejudices and their biases at work
01:32:48.020
yeah you know out there in search of justification right because the truth is i have no i have no
01:32:54.900
goddamn idea and neither does anybody else no one can possibly have a clue because these things are
01:33:00.100
acting below the conscious level on us in a way that we cannot dissect and analyze okay okay all right
01:33:06.680
so let me let me ask you then let me switch topics so you know you've been less in the public eye since
01:33:13.260
this scandal i'm retired i've been retired you've been retired okay you've been retired
01:33:20.020
but you've published your book look i sold a quarter of a million books i made millions of dollars i have
01:33:24.920
more nice stuff than i know what to do with i have a husband i am deeply in love with i could die happy
01:33:31.040
tomorrow i helped to get a president office i'm one of the seven people that put trump in office and
01:33:34.820
that's not egotism that's a fact right i'm one of the seven people that put donald trump in office i can
01:33:39.220
die happy now it might be you too in purgatory for you as a consequence yeah no i mean maybe
01:33:44.900
you know what happens after i die for that particular crime who knows but um but the fact
01:33:49.760
is like i have accomplished more than the vast majority of people walking this earth i have you
01:33:55.020
know and if i were to do nothing else professionally now i would be infinitely more successful than all
01:34:00.480
my critics combined okay so so i'm good there's there's rumors of your current state there's rumors
01:34:07.180
that you're terribly indebted there's there's rumors okay so i sometime you know one of the problems
01:34:14.340
with trying to find out what's true about me is i like to troll journalists and i i confirm or deny
01:34:20.040
according to my whimsy so when somebody writes to me saying is it true you're two million and i'll say
01:34:23.800
no darling it's four million um what i won't what i won't uh go to the trouble of explaining is that
01:34:31.120
of my many companies the one that was funded by the mercers who withdrew their political investments
01:34:37.780
from steve bannon and from me at the same time that particular vehicle is somewhat in debt but i'm not
01:34:44.020
i don't i don't have any personal liability whatsoever the sum total of the money i owe
01:34:50.960
it's about 977 dollars to capital one because i can't get any better credit cards than that because
01:34:55.900
i haven't been in this country for long enough i see i see so so so it's a corporate problem rather
01:35:01.260
i might not have as much money as i had two years ago um i don't but um i'm not two million in debt
01:35:07.860
one of my companies is um and we'll probably have to either try to fight it will have to fight its way
01:35:14.400
out of that or it will have to you know go through some kind of insolvency process or whatever
01:35:18.380
but i'm not in debt i just never bothered to correct the record and frankly when a journalist
01:35:23.900
if a journalist wrote to me so sorry about the noise if a journalist wrote to me and said are you
01:35:28.640
two million in debt and i made the very important critical distinction between me and the business
01:35:34.620
yes they wouldn't write that up anyway that's that they would take my confirmation of the figure
01:35:39.620
as confirmation that i'm in debt and just write what they wanted to anyway so i feel no i mean it's
01:35:44.520
not a crime to lie to journalists and i feel no obligation to uh to to act as their fact checking
01:35:50.460
i think it's actually a crime to tell the truth to journalists isn't it amen amen no if somebody
01:35:56.720
comes treated like a crime often if somebody comes to me to ask for a comment i think it's a moral
01:36:02.160
obligation to fuck with them um which is why i got myself into trouble that time before you know when
01:36:06.980
someone shot up the the newsroom wherever wherever it was because i i made some flippant comment about
01:36:13.360
vigilante death squads and journalists or something and i didn't post it publicly i wasn't
01:36:17.480
like inciting people to hurt journalists i wrote it privately to somebody who then published it and
01:36:23.300
wrote a story about it and then they used that as evidence that i was ginning up like people whatever
01:36:28.480
this is the these are some of the consequences of being the kind of person who can't bite their lip
01:36:33.080
so my job is to create a career in which that doesn't matter because i'm not um because my success
01:36:44.580
my income my fan base my profile whatever isn't reliant on the prestige economy but it's also not
01:36:54.240
reliant on the sort of rules of journalistic propriety or whatever so this is why um
01:37:00.000
i'm in the reason i'm in oklahoma is i'm closing the last tranche of money to do um a late night
01:37:08.120
chat show like johnny this is the thing i alluded to earlier in the conversation i see i see so that's
01:37:13.560
part of your future plans and who are you doing that with if you don't mind me asking are you still
01:37:19.720
in the process of waiting to announce that i'm still i haven't announced anything yet so i'm going
01:37:24.940
to the money in the bank first and then i'll do all my hires and then i'll you know announce partners
01:37:28.920
and all the rest of it but the the the basic the idea of it is what i should always have been doing
01:37:36.000
which is somewhere between bill maher and and johnny carson i can do my characters i can do my
01:37:41.960
ilhan omar my dr christine kind of characters uh as cold opens like snl except they'll actually be
01:37:46.920
funny i can do monologues i can do interviews all the rest of it and i i'm a live act i'm not one of
01:37:52.520
these people that can just babble for three hours a day like you know some of the podcasters can do
01:37:56.760
some of the youtubers can do i just find it so boring you know i don't want to just babble
01:38:00.960
three hours no one wants to hear the same opinions from the same four conservatives on the news every
01:38:05.920
day it's just mind-numbingly dull that's not me i'm a writer in a live act right that's where i live
01:38:12.220
that's my my happy place so it'll just be once a week and so how are you going to how are you going
01:38:19.040
to protect yourself just out of curiosity about being from being censored and taken out like
01:38:25.040
because i'm going to make it i'm going to make it absolutely anti-fragile we're not going to be on
01:38:29.660
social media we are going to encourage um viewers not to share clips we're going to beg people not to
01:38:35.120
put us on social media we're going to host the video on our own player on our own website
01:38:38.700
i see um if you want to watch it put your email address in and we can sell into the email list right
01:38:44.120
so we can you know do newsletters with authors and all the rest of it so it's something approximating
01:38:50.540
a private subscription service yes it isn't completely dissimilar from alex jones's model
01:38:56.620
um just without the homegrown products right well that's what we're hoping to allow people to do with
01:39:02.340
this platform that we've been building as an alternative to patreon you know on a broader scale
01:39:09.020
well maybe i'll be on that because if you'll have me because um this is the only thing i'm not
01:39:13.700
banned from perhaps uh i think these hermetically sealed little universes are the future for us
01:39:19.240
look social media isn't for isn't for us the people who run these companies hate us they are
01:39:24.020
dedicated to our annihilation they want to see us wiped off the face of the planet there's no point
01:39:29.000
handing distribution over to people who hate and why would you drive up the market value of these
01:39:33.160
companies by providing them free content just leave and i'm always the person who has to do it two
01:39:38.740
years before everybody else so this is what i'm going to do which is just leave social media
01:39:43.280
i'm going to spend a bunch of money uh converting my facebook fans into a big powerful email list
01:39:48.760
and i'm just going to leave there will be life after social media trust me once once upon a time
01:39:53.220
people didn't imagine that there would be no that my space wouldn't still be here there was aol geocities
01:39:58.220
the world moves on and in five years no one will have a twitter account anymore and you'll be
01:40:03.680
worrying you'll be wondering what on earth you were you were panicking about and the people who didn't
01:40:08.120
look ahead will be lost i will have a three million strong email list that i write to every day with
01:40:14.440
you know a hilarious um daily column and they'll tune in on friday nights to watch my show and i'll
01:40:20.320
be perfectly happy nobody can take that away from me you know if we email providers timeline for that
01:40:26.340
what how when when you're expecting to roll that out approximately um i've kind of pretty much sort of
01:40:31.740
semi-told people already so the cat's kind of sort of out of the bag so i haven't really broken the news
01:40:35.780
now but but um once the money's in the bank then i'll say then it'll be six to eight weeks before
01:40:40.880
we have a set built uh so two months before we drop i'm going to have a very open gestation process
01:40:46.900
i'm going to show pictures of the set while it's being built on the rest of it we're not going to
01:40:49.840
do like grand announcements because i've done enough of those in my career um so we'll just have a very
01:40:55.200
iterative uh period of putting every assembling everything and then in about two months i will drop
01:41:03.400
episode one and it will be the funniest most hilarious unmissable hour of television that's
01:41:10.040
somehow not on tv um produced by anybody in the country and it will be unmissable and hysterical
01:41:17.460
uh it will teach you something because we'll have a serious component too whether it's a mini
01:41:21.460
documentary or an interview or a review of something and it'll be bookended by just the
01:41:25.700
funniest political satire and you know and and and characters and nonsense um that nobody can do but
01:41:33.820
me uh and it's sort of what i always should have done it's what i've always wanted to do uh and now
01:41:40.840
i have the breathing space if you're like well no one's looking well no one's expecting daily this
01:41:44.900
that the other for me i'm in my you know in my first retirement period well like share i will come
01:41:49.960
out of retirement many times in my life um this is um i've i've had this nice space where no one's
01:41:56.640
been kind of down my neck to deliver anything have you enjoyed that like has there been anything about
01:42:01.440
advantageous to you about the fact that you've been sort of pulled away from the public spotlight
01:42:06.060
it's been wonderful it's been wonderful i've been able to i've been able to dedicate two years of my
01:42:11.280
life to getting to know the man i'm going to spend the rest of my life with you know and now we can go
01:42:15.980
about now i'll throw myself back into the fight he's got his own career and all the rest of it
01:42:21.020
but we've had something that most married couples don't get which is two years just together at the
01:42:26.920
beginning of our life together most people don't have that luxury or anything even close to it they
01:42:31.980
immediately get bogged down in the everyday hell of you know who's taking the kids to school did you
01:42:37.340
pay the gas bill crap right we didn't have any of that we just had two years of bliss together and now
01:42:44.300
we have an unshakable foundation and if i'm away for six months i'm away for six months and it won't
01:42:49.840
make a difference to us because we don't have the same sort of vulnerabilities that a lot of newlywed
01:42:53.320
couples do because we had that that time together so from to my mind it was time well spent i've also
01:42:58.800
been reading a lot and we didn't get to talk about anything really substantive in this conversation
01:43:02.580
except my obscure psychiatric history but um you will see you will see that i've been reading a lot
01:43:11.040
and sharpening my claws and uh refilling my toolkit and so when i do start re-entering the arena and
01:43:21.260
popping up on live streams and doing interviews and things like that you'll see that um i've spent
01:43:26.240
two years reading everything i can get my hands on and i'm considerably more formidable than i was two
01:43:32.140
years ago i was already quite formidable anything you'd particularly recommend not at the moment i'm
01:43:38.660
going to keep my powder dry because i have uh i have lots of fun things that i want to that i want
01:43:43.920
to do with it all um but no i've i've i've been regrouping and plotting and sharpening oh i can't
01:43:51.080
imagine that you sharpening sharpening my knives and you don't want to be you know you don't want to
01:43:56.540
be the first one in front of my blades um no it's it's people keep expecting me to be sad or to have
01:44:04.820
had some kind of terrible experience and the truth is i just haven't i've had the best two years of my
01:44:08.820
life i've been i've been in perfect bliss with the best man i've ever met and now i'm ready to get
01:44:15.020
back to work all right well look that sounds like a good place to end from as far as i'm concerned
01:44:22.700
that was a nice natural conclusion wasn't it that was that was natural conclusion perhaps we could
01:44:26.580
do this again and talk about something substantive instead of instead of my dreadful history
01:44:32.160
yeah well you know you're an interesting character and so it was substantive as far as i was concerned
01:44:39.940
and i think people will find it that too so what happened to you was very singular and but it's
01:44:49.600
unexpected it's important that people realize that um the the specifics of what was said are neither
01:44:57.860
here nor there it was the fact that the the powers that be linked up and decided to defenestrate this
01:45:04.780
person and because conservatives allowed it to happen they lost one of their greatest champions
01:45:12.460
and i'm going to be very successful with very profitable enterprises and perfectly happy
01:45:17.520
just being funny for a living because i sort of think to myself why would i keep killing myself for
01:45:24.600
people who why would i keep killing myself for people who don't deserve me so to some degree the
01:45:31.140
politics stuff it's never going to be gone but it is going to be dialed down considerably and i'm going
01:45:34.760
to be talking about love sex death and money instead of you know trump or whatever yeah well maybe you
01:45:39.980
spend you know maybe you spend enough time talking about politics it's not very interesting after a
01:45:46.020
while and the people who are in politics are awful i mean if those of us who are kind of moving into
01:45:52.080
that political sphere and have you know aspirations toward being elected officials the rest of it
01:45:56.780
they're becoming awful people i mean everyone in politics is is dreadful ghastly i don't think i want
01:46:04.360
to spend 30 years talking about or thinking about those people i think i want to do something more fun
01:46:09.540
um so yeah i'm gonna i mean not to say that there won't be uh characters from the political world
01:46:15.720
popping up in my sketches but um or indeed that i won't do of course i'm going to do journalism it
01:46:22.020
just won't necessarily be political journalism per se so perhaps i'll do a 20 minute mini documentary
01:46:26.500
in the show where i'll go out into the country somewhere or i'll go to sweden or i'll go to london
01:46:31.420
or whatever but um but as far as the sort of you know the conservative movement stuff goes the
01:46:37.200
conservative base are cowards and they are ungrateful and they are indolent um and i gave a lot and paid
01:46:47.220
my dues and helped get a president office and now it's time to do what i want to do which is make
01:46:51.400
people laugh because that's that's a power that i have that nobody else in our world does um so i'm
01:46:57.520
going to focus on that yeah it's a hell of a power really can make people laugh you know i think he
01:47:03.820
makes heterosexual men a certain kind of heterosexual man laugh well that's something you know there
01:47:08.340
are certain kinds of heterosexual i like the i like the guy but i i don't personally find him you
01:47:14.060
know rib ticklingly funny um but then that's because i like people like john rivers and you know
01:47:19.480
right right right you know uh that kind of universe so uh you know bill burr and whatever uh so he's
01:47:28.880
maybe not my kind of comedian anyway could be could be um but uh but anyway this has been fun
01:47:34.100
so thanks um hey look i've been looking forward to talking to you for a long time oh and uh say hi
01:47:40.440
to vox for me i will i will he's very much looking forward to me speaking to you too um this is that's
01:47:48.060
what i want to talk about i want to talk about things like the forward because there's interesting
01:47:51.500
substantive things to do that you've managed look we'll have another and i know this was your
01:47:56.000
another conversation well we will and you this is your strategy through this conversation which
01:48:00.460
is not lost on me was to make sure that we don't spend too much time talking about you
01:48:04.180
and you have been successful in that strategy because i've allowed you to but the next conversation
01:48:08.360
we will talk about you um because i do want to talk about uh the forward and i do want to talk about
01:48:13.900
some of the things that you know the thing i asked you about on australian tv and whatever because
01:48:17.380
i think that um well turnabout is fair play as they say right and i knew you know i did apologize to
01:48:24.520
you on that's it and i'm and i'm and i did make a mistake at the aspen and i and i thank you for
01:48:31.600
that um no i i um i think there's important substance to be spoken about you know as regards
01:48:39.420
well important things god and there's what else so let's talk about let's talk about real things
01:48:46.020
next time well i think we'll think when i'm when i'm feeling particularly um up to a battle i'll think
01:48:51.640
about then i'm sure a lot of people will uh watch this so this is officially the last time i will
01:48:56.580
ever speak about bloody february 2017 um so if anybody wants to know anything you can watch this
01:49:02.440
video and that's it all right all right good well best of luck with your new endeavor cheers best of
01:49:10.860
luck to you take care all right bye bye bye if you found this conversation meaningful you might think
01:49:16.220
about picking up dad's books maps of meaning the architecture of belief or his newer best-selling
01:49:21.360
book 12 rules for life an antidote to chaos both of these works delve much deeper into the topics
01:49:26.780
covered in the jordan b peterson podcast see jordanbpeterson.com for audio ebook and text links
01:49:33.300
or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller follow me on my youtube channel jordan b peterson
01:49:38.960
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01:49:48.180
details on this show access to my blog information about my tour dates and other events and my list of
01:49:55.620
recommended books can be found on my website jordanbpeterson.com my online writing programs
01:50:02.600
designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop a
01:50:08.240
sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found at self-authoring.com that's self-authoring