The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - September 22, 2019


Risk Being a Fool： A 12 Rules for Life Lecture


Episode Stats

Length

2 hours and 51 minutes

Words per Minute

155.9976

Word Count

26,802

Sentence Count

7,308

Misogynist Sentences

31

Hate Speech Sentences

25


Summary

In Episode 28 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Jordan's daughter Mikayla talks about her father's recent trip to rehab, and how she and her family are coping with the aftermath of her mom's terminal cancer diagnosis. Dr. Jordan Peterson's new series, "Risk Being a Fool: 12 Rules for Life: A 12 Rules For Life Lecture," is a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety. With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way, and a roadmap towards healing. He provides a roadmap toward healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward. If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better. Go to Dailywire Plus now and start watching Dr. B.P. Peterson's series on Depression and Anxiety. Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve. Dr. P. Peterson: Let This Be the First Step towards the Bright Future You Deserve. Subscribe to Daily Wire Plus to get immediate access to all the latest episodes of The Jordan Peterson Podcast and more information about his new series. Subscribe today using the promo code POWER10 for 10% off your first month of Daily Wire plus membership! Subscribe and receive a FREE copy of his new book, POWER10, Power 10, available in Kindle, iBook, Paperback, Hardcover, and Hardcover! Subscribe on Audible, Kindle, and Podchaser, and subscribe to the epsiode, and much more! Learn more about your ad choices! Download a copy of the book, Kindle, Podchronicity, and Kindle, wherever else you re listening to the podcast? Download the book of your choice, and make sure to check out the podcast on the podcast, and review it on your favorite podcast, subscribe to it on the Podchival, and leave us a review and subscribe on the podchival and more of your favourite podcasting app! You can also become a fellow disciple of the PodChivalrousous podcasting platform, and more like it s a review, or share it on Apple Podcasts, wherever you get a review? You get a chance to win a review on iTunes, subscribe on itunes, and learn more about what s going to get it?


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.
00:00:06.000 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:12.000 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:19.000 With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:27.000 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:00:35.000 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:00:41.000 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:00:47.000 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:00:57.000 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 28 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.
00:01:04.000 I'm Mikayla Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.
00:01:07.000 This is a podcast from Westbury, New York, recorded on September 6th, 2018.
00:01:12.000 We're going to get back to interviews as quickly as possible.
00:01:15.000 We're still having some health trickiness.
00:01:17.000 I'm currently in New York, visiting my dad, who has checked himself into rehab to get off of a prescribed anti-anxiety drug that he started taking when mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
00:01:30.000 Turns out it's very difficult to get off of without having physical withdrawal.
00:01:35.000 If this recording doesn't sound ideal, it's because I'm in New York visiting my dad.
00:01:41.000 So, interviews at the moment for the podcast are kind of out of the question.
00:01:46.000 We should be back at it in a couple of months.
00:01:49.000 If you want to hear how my mom is doing and how my dad is doing, please go to my YouTube page or type in Peterson Family Update September 2019 into YouTube.
00:02:00.000 I go into why he's in rehab, how mom is doing.
00:02:05.000 Don't worry, everything's fine, but there's more information on YouTube in that video.
00:02:11.000 We're okay, we just need a bit of time to get back on our feet after all the stress that we had to deal with following mom's diagnosis.
00:02:19.000 I've named this podcast, Risk Being a Fool, a 12 Rules for Life lecture.
00:02:24.000 Well, this is a nice friendly place.
00:02:39.000 It's sort of like the anti-Twitter, I would say.
00:02:45.000 Yeah, so, well, thank you very much for the kind welcome.
00:02:50.000 It's much appreciated.
00:02:53.000 It's surreal to be here.
00:02:55.000 Well, it's surreal to be doing all of this.
00:02:57.000 It's surreal to have Dave Rubin introduce Eric Weinstein, the mathematician, so he can come out here and sing a Doors song to you and then play the harmonica.
00:03:07.000 I don't know what universe that makes sense in, but apparently it's this one.
00:03:12.000 So, I don't know what to make of that except it's very amusing and it's very good that things can be amusing from time to time.
00:03:21.000 It's nice to have Dave along to add some levity to the situation in the Q&A as well because I think that no matter how serious the topics that you're talking about, if you can't maintain a sense of humor about it, then something has gone seriously wrong, right?
00:03:37.000 And I think something's gone seriously wrong, I suppose, to the degree that we are increasingly unable to tolerate comedians.
00:03:43.000 They won't come to speak at campuses, for example, it's not really a very good thing, even mainstream comedians like Jerry Seinfeld.
00:03:53.000 Okay, so, I use these opportunities, privileges, because it's a privilege to come here and speak to all of you, to further my thinking about whatever it is that I happen to be thinking about.
00:04:11.000 And, you know, Dave was talking about ideas, and there's two things that are sort of relevant when you're talking about ideas.
00:04:20.000 One is, I think, the ideas that you bring forward, but the other is the engagement in the process of generating ideas, and that's actually more important.
00:04:30.000 And I really think that that's what you need to do if you're speaking with people.
00:04:34.000 I mean, you do that in a conversation, you don't want to just trot out the same old things you've been thinking about for the last ten years, you know?
00:04:43.000 There's something stale and dead about that. You want to be pushing the envelope with what you think.
00:04:48.000 And that's a good hint if you want to speak publicly, or if you want to speak in a manner that's interesting, is you have to take a bit of a risk, you know?
00:04:55.000 Otherwise, you fall back on your notes, and then you're like your own tape recorder. Or, it gets even worse, you might become your own parody, you know?
00:05:02.000 Because you keep imitating your past successes, or your past lack of failure, which is even a worse thing to imitate.
00:05:10.000 It's better to take a risk. And then that's kind of exciting, because, well, it's exciting to be the speaker, because you don't know what the hell is going to happen.
00:05:17.000 Because I never know backstage. I don't even really know what I'm going to talk about when I come out.
00:05:22.000 Like, you know, I sit back in the dressing room for forty-five minutes, and I think about what it is that I'm thinking about.
00:05:28.000 And I have some sense of the direction that I want to go in, but I don't know exactly how it's going to go when I come out on stage.
00:05:35.000 And so, that gives me some rather anxiety-provoking moments. I usually have at least one small panic attack before I come on stage.
00:05:43.000 They don't last that long, but they're there. But, but I don't think you can do anything worthwhile without risk.
00:05:51.000 And I can bloody well tell you that you can't think without risk. That's for sure.
00:05:55.000 Because if you're thinking without risk, then you're not thinking about anything important.
00:05:59.000 And if you're not thinking about anything important, well, the first issue is, well, why the hell bother then?
00:06:03.000 Why bother thinking? And second, you're not thinking, if you're not thinking about something important.
00:06:08.000 And if it's going to be important, it's going to be contentious. And you know, that's part of the reason why free speech is so important.
00:06:14.000 Because you have to be able to stumble around blindly like an idiot while you're trying to figure out difficult things.
00:06:19.000 Because otherwise, you'll never get a chance to figure them out.
00:06:22.000 Because you're not going to bloody well get it right the first time. That's for sure.
00:06:26.000 And so, there's a lot of idiocy on the way to wisdom. And you have to be, you have to understand that.
00:06:32.000 If you're going to allow your society to proceed with any degree of certainty.
00:06:37.000 You have to flail about, you know.
00:06:39.000 I was writing the other day.
00:06:41.000 I've been writing the second volume, I suppose, of 12 rules for life.
00:06:46.000 Which is provisionally called, 12 more rules for life.
00:06:49.000 Which is, took a long time to come up with that one, I'll tell you.
00:06:55.000 And in the first chapter, I have an image at the beginning of each chapter.
00:07:00.000 And the image that I chose, the first image I chose was a yin-yang symbol.
00:07:04.000 But I dispensed with that.
00:07:06.000 And the second image I chose was the fool card from the tarot.
00:07:10.000 It's a really interesting card.
00:07:12.000 And it shows this kind of prince looking like guy, young guy.
00:07:16.000 He's looking up in the clouds and he's got a little dog with him.
00:07:19.000 Sun's shining behind him and he's about to step off a cliff.
00:07:22.000 And it's a very, it's the fool.
00:07:24.000 And it's a very paradoxical image.
00:07:26.000 Because he's a good looking kid.
00:07:28.000 And he looks like he knows what he's doing.
00:07:30.000 And the day is bright.
00:07:32.000 And so that, that signifies consciousness.
00:07:34.000 And yet, he's willing to step off the cliff.
00:07:37.000 And so he's the fool.
00:07:39.000 And the fool, the fool is a complicated image.
00:07:42.000 You know, the fool is the court jester who tells the truth even to the king.
00:07:46.000 Because he's beneath contempt.
00:07:47.000 Right, so sometimes the jester is the only person that can tell the truth.
00:07:51.000 Because he's beneath contempt.
00:07:52.000 And that's actually the role that comedians play.
00:07:54.000 Is they can say what everyone else is thinking.
00:07:57.000 And that's why we laugh.
00:07:58.000 You know, because a good comedian says something that you think.
00:08:01.000 But you'd never say.
00:08:02.000 And the comedian says it.
00:08:03.000 And you go, haha, yeah, we all think that.
00:08:06.000 And so, and if you can tolerate that.
00:08:08.000 Well, then you have a reasonably free society.
00:08:10.000 Right, if you can tolerate people who poke at you.
00:08:12.000 Especially if you have a position of power.
00:08:14.000 And so, Carl Jung regarded the fool as the precursor to the savior.
00:08:20.000 It's a really strange idea.
00:08:22.000 Right, one of his paradoxical ideas.
00:08:24.000 And the reason is that you can't advance unless you're willing to make a fool of yourself.
00:08:29.000 Because in order to advance, you have to transform yourself into a beginner.
00:08:33.000 Right, because you have to do something new in order to advance.
00:08:35.000 And if it's new, then you're not good at it.
00:08:37.000 And if you're not good at it, then you have to do it badly.
00:08:39.000 And if you're going to do it badly, well then you're going to be a bit of a fool.
00:08:42.000 But if you're not willing to do things badly and be a bit of a fool, then you don't get any better.
00:08:47.000 And so, unless you're willing to be a fool, then you can't be redeemed.
00:08:51.000 So, that's a good thing to know whenever you're thinking about how foolish you're going to look when you try something new.
00:08:59.000 It's like, well, you want to try something new because what there is of you right now isn't enough.
00:09:05.000 Unless your life is perfect.
00:09:07.000 And that's very unlikely.
00:09:08.000 Unless the life of people around you that you love is perfect.
00:09:11.000 You're not everything you could be.
00:09:13.000 And maybe you're not everything you should be.
00:09:15.000 And so, you have to be something new.
00:09:16.000 And if you're going to be something new, then you have to risk being a fool.
00:09:19.000 And then maybe that will move you to the next stage.
00:09:22.000 And so, that's that perverse meeting of opposites, you know.
00:09:27.000 So, I'm willing to come out on stage and risk being a fool, I suppose.
00:09:33.000 Because, at least to some degree, in principle, that's the pathway to wisdom.
00:09:37.000 And it's better to come out and see if you can discover some new truths rather than just reiterate truths you think you already know.
00:09:43.000 I don't know if ever, if you're reiterating truths that you already know, I don't ever know if that's actually true.
00:09:48.000 You know what I mean?
00:09:50.000 Because the state...
00:09:52.000 Whatever truth is, is very difficult to get your hands on it.
00:09:57.000 It's not like you can just write down the truth in a list and have the list be permanent.
00:10:02.000 There's something alive about it and vital.
00:10:05.000 And so, it has to be delivered in a...
00:10:08.000 I don't know what it is.
00:10:09.000 It has to be delivered in a new fashion.
00:10:10.000 I think it's something akin to writing the line between chaos and order.
00:10:14.000 Which is why I used the yin and yang symbol as well in that chapter.
00:10:17.000 That was the first image, you know.
00:10:18.000 Because, if you're in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing.
00:10:21.000 Then, you kind of have one foot where you're secure and you know what you're doing.
00:10:24.000 And you have the other foot where you don't know what you're doing.
00:10:27.000 And that's pushing you to develop.
00:10:29.000 And there's something about that, that embodies the truth.
00:10:31.000 Even though it's not a final truth.
00:10:33.000 It's more like a truth of process.
00:10:35.000 And I think the deepest truth is actually a truth of process.
00:10:39.000 Like, it's the truth that you engage in when you sit down with someone that you love.
00:10:42.000 And you have a difficult discussion about something important.
00:10:45.000 When you're actually trying to solve a problem so that you can make things better.
00:10:48.000 You know.
00:10:49.000 Now you have...
00:10:50.000 Now and then you have a discussion like that.
00:10:51.000 And those aren't easy discussions.
00:10:52.000 Generally.
00:10:53.000 Because, well first of all you have to admit that you have a problem.
00:10:55.000 And then you have to formulate the problem.
00:10:57.000 Then you have to agree on the problem.
00:10:58.000 Then you have to both actually want to work towards the solution.
00:11:01.000 Even if you're at odds with one another.
00:11:03.000 Right?
00:11:04.000 You have to...
00:11:05.000 And I've seen this.
00:11:06.000 I mean this is where many marriages fail.
00:11:08.000 Unfortunately.
00:11:09.000 Because people aren't able to sit down and say what they think.
00:11:12.000 And risk the terrible conflict that goes along with actually saying who it is that you are.
00:11:19.000 And what you want.
00:11:20.000 You know.
00:11:21.000 But...
00:11:22.000 But that's where you find the truth by doing that.
00:11:24.000 And then maybe you can stay where that is.
00:11:27.000 And that's where you should be.
00:11:29.000 And maybe that's what...
00:11:31.000 Maybe that's what keeps you going through life.
00:11:33.000 And keeps everyone going.
00:11:34.000 It's something like that.
00:11:36.000 Now I was thinking backstage.
00:11:38.000 I was thinking what the hell am I doing?
00:11:40.000 I've been wondering that a lot.
00:11:41.000 You know.
00:11:42.000 I tell you.
00:11:43.000 I've been wondering that an awful lot.
00:11:44.000 Because I can't really figure it out.
00:11:45.000 I can't figure out...
00:11:46.000 Well there's many many things I can't figure out.
00:11:49.000 But I can't figure out for example.
00:11:51.000 Exactly why the book I wrote has become so popular.
00:11:55.000 And I can't figure out why so many people are coming out to listen to me speak.
00:11:59.000 Like I think part of it.
00:12:01.000 You know.
00:12:02.000 I've been trying to take this part very carefully to get it right.
00:12:04.000 And I think part of it is a mere consequence of technology.
00:12:08.000 Not that there's anything mere about that.
00:12:10.000 Because technology is an unbelievably...
00:12:12.000 I mean it doesn't need to be said.
00:12:14.000 It's an unbelievably powerful force.
00:12:16.000 And it's not like we've exactly got it mastered.
00:12:18.000 We've developed all these new technologies in the last five years.
00:12:21.000 Thereabouts.
00:12:22.000 And we have no idea how they work.
00:12:24.000 Or what they're doing.
00:12:25.000 Or what their implications are.
00:12:27.000 You know.
00:12:28.000 We launch these things on us.
00:12:29.000 Like we're laboratory guinea pigs.
00:12:32.000 Or laboratory rats.
00:12:33.000 And we try these massive large scale social experiments.
00:12:36.000 We have no idea where they're heading.
00:12:38.000 You know.
00:12:39.000 We have Twitter.
00:12:40.000 And Facebook.
00:12:41.000 And Google.
00:12:42.000 And YouTube.
00:12:43.000 And podcasts.
00:12:44.000 I mean YouTube itself is an absolutely staggering revolution.
00:12:48.000 You know.
00:12:49.000 It took me a long time to realize that.
00:12:50.000 It took about three years of playing with YouTube.
00:12:52.000 Before I figured out that.
00:12:54.000 There was something absolutely fundamental.
00:12:56.000 Shifted as a consequence of it.
00:12:58.000 Eventually figured it out.
00:12:59.000 It was that.
00:13:00.000 YouTube allows the spoken word to have the same reach.
00:13:03.000 And permanence as the written word.
00:13:05.000 But cheaper access.
00:13:06.000 Faster publication.
00:13:07.000 And a wider audience.
00:13:08.000 It's like.
00:13:09.000 Oh I see.
00:13:10.000 It's like.
00:13:11.000 It's bigger than books.
00:13:12.000 That actually turns out to be something pretty damn terrifying.
00:13:17.000 That's the right word for that.
00:13:19.000 And then podcasts.
00:13:20.000 Maybe there are YouTube on steroids.
00:13:23.000 They're more invisible eh.
00:13:24.000 It's like.
00:13:25.000 The podcast market is absolutely huge.
00:13:27.000 You know.
00:13:28.000 Rogan.
00:13:29.000 From what I've been able to glean from my conversations with him.
00:13:32.000 He gets 150 million downloads a month.
00:13:35.000 Right.
00:13:36.000 So it's 1.5 billion downloads a year.
00:13:39.000 Which.
00:13:40.000 I think.
00:13:41.000 Probably makes him the most powerful interviewer who's ever lived.
00:13:43.000 He's certainly up in the top two or three.
00:13:45.000 And so.
00:13:46.000 I don't know even.
00:13:47.000 I don't know how to understand.
00:13:49.000 Quantities like that.
00:13:50.000 I don't know what that means.
00:13:52.000 I think it means that.
00:13:53.000 More people can listen than can read.
00:13:56.000 So.
00:13:57.000 Which is highly probable.
00:13:58.000 Right.
00:13:59.000 Because reading is a minority taste.
00:14:00.000 Very few people read seriously.
00:14:02.000 And very few people buy books.
00:14:03.000 But.
00:14:04.000 Maybe five times as many.
00:14:05.000 It's a guess.
00:14:06.000 Maybe five times as many people can listen.
00:14:08.000 As can read.
00:14:09.000 And you can listen to a podcast.
00:14:10.000 When you're doing other things.
00:14:11.000 Like driving.
00:14:12.000 Or doing the dishes.
00:14:13.000 Or exercising.
00:14:14.000 Or whatever.
00:14:15.000 Whatever it might be.
00:14:16.000 And so.
00:14:17.000 Not only.
00:14:18.000 Is the technology more accessible.
00:14:20.000 And very low cost.
00:14:22.000 And with infinite bandwidth.
00:14:24.000 But it seems to have brought.
00:14:25.000 The possibility of engaging deeply.
00:14:27.000 With ideas.
00:14:28.000 To a much much broader audience.
00:14:30.000 And so.
00:14:31.000 God only knows.
00:14:32.000 How much of a revolution that is.
00:14:33.000 Like it's enough of a revolution.
00:14:35.000 To bring.
00:14:36.000 About 8500 people.
00:14:37.000 In Dublin.
00:14:38.000 At our talk.
00:14:39.000 On.
00:14:40.000 On the relationship.
00:14:41.000 Between facts and values.
00:14:42.000 It's like.
00:14:43.000 Oh.
00:14:44.000 There's a big seller.
00:14:45.000 It's like.
00:14:46.000 Line up for that.
00:14:47.000 Folks.
00:14:48.000 Two and a half hours.
00:14:49.000 Of discussion.
00:14:50.000 About the relationship.
00:14:51.000 Between facts and values.
00:14:52.000 It's like.
00:14:53.000 How the whole audience.
00:14:54.000 Was basically silent.
00:14:55.000 Listening the whole time.
00:14:56.000 And.
00:14:57.000 And as far as we could tell.
00:14:58.000 You know.
00:14:59.000 On board.
00:15:00.000 And along for the ride.
00:15:01.000 And you know.
00:15:02.000 It's like.
00:15:03.000 Wow.
00:15:04.000 People are a lot smarter.
00:15:05.000 Looks like we're smarter.
00:15:06.000 Than we thought we were.
00:15:07.000 And.
00:15:08.000 Maybe these new technologies.
00:15:09.000 Are starting to show us.
00:15:10.000 That that's actually the case.
00:15:11.000 We have longer.
00:15:12.000 Attention spans.
00:15:13.000 Than we thought.
00:15:14.000 We're capable of thinking.
00:15:15.000 About deeper things.
00:15:16.000 Than we imagined.
00:15:17.000 Something you can't do.
00:15:18.000 With TV.
00:15:19.000 And maybe you couldn't do.
00:15:20.000 With radio either.
00:15:21.000 And that people are interested.
00:15:22.000 In serious ideas.
00:15:23.000 And so.
00:15:24.000 I think.
00:15:25.000 Well.
00:15:26.000 Part of.
00:15:27.000 What's happened.
00:15:28.000 What's happening here.
00:15:29.000 Why you're here.
00:15:30.000 Is.
00:15:31.000 In part.
00:15:32.000 A consequence of.
00:15:33.000 That technological revolution.
00:15:34.000 Of.
00:15:35.000 Long form.
00:15:36.000 Complex.
00:15:37.000 Sophisticated.
00:15:38.000 Philosophical dialogue.
00:15:39.000 To.
00:15:40.000 A very.
00:15:41.000 Very large number.
00:15:42.000 Of people.
00:15:43.000 And there's a market for it.
00:15:44.000 So.
00:15:45.000 And I happened.
00:15:46.000 Fortunately enough.
00:15:47.000 I think.
00:15:48.000 Along with the other.
00:15:49.000 Those of us.
00:15:50.000 In the so called.
00:15:51.000 Intellectual dark web.
00:15:52.000 To the degree.
00:15:53.000 That anything does.
00:15:54.000 Because there's a very.
00:15:55.000 Diverse range.
00:15:56.000 Of political opinions.
00:15:57.000 And personalities.
00:15:58.000 Within that group.
00:15:59.000 It's a very strange group.
00:16:00.000 It's like a herd of cats.
00:16:01.000 Or something like that.
00:16:02.000 Not.
00:16:03.000 Not.
00:16:04.000 Exactly cohesive.
00:16:05.000 Maybe three.
00:16:06.000 Constitute.
00:16:07.000 The.
00:16:08.000 The nexus.
00:16:09.000 The union.
00:16:10.000 One is.
00:16:11.000 Early adopter.
00:16:12.000 Of this new technology.
00:16:13.000 That's a.
00:16:14.000 So that's.
00:16:15.000 Being in the right place.
00:16:16.000 At the right time.
00:16:17.000 The second is.
00:16:18.000 Independent platform.
00:16:19.000 Right.
00:16:20.000 So none of us.
00:16:21.000 Are the servants.
00:16:22.000 Of any particular masters.
00:16:23.000 Have other.
00:16:24.000 Independent sources.
00:16:25.000 Of support.
00:16:26.000 Financial.
00:16:27.000 And otherwise.
00:16:28.000 That enable us.
00:16:29.000 To establish.
00:16:30.000 A certain amount.
00:16:31.000 Of autonomy.
00:16:32.000 And then.
00:16:33.000 I would say.
00:16:34.000 The final thing.
00:16:35.000 Probably is.
00:16:36.000 Maybe there's two things.
00:16:37.000 One is.
00:16:38.000 The desire.
00:16:39.000 To pursue.
00:16:40.000 Truth.
00:16:41.000 In conversation.
00:16:42.000 Rather than.
00:16:43.000 To merely.
00:16:44.000 State.
00:16:45.000 What the truths are.
00:16:46.000 And.
00:16:47.000 The final thing.
00:16:48.000 Might be.
00:16:49.000 Belief.
00:16:50.000 Belief.
00:16:51.000 That our audiences.
00:16:52.000 Are other wise.
00:16:53.000 I always presume.
00:16:54.000 That.
00:16:55.000 I could think.
00:16:56.000 As hard.
00:16:57.000 As I possibly.
00:16:58.000 Could.
00:16:59.000 In real time.
00:17:00.000 And.
00:17:01.000 People would.
00:17:02.000 Follow.
00:17:03.000 Follow along.
00:17:04.000 You know.
00:17:05.000 And.
00:17:06.000 That's always.
00:17:07.000 Worked.
00:17:08.000 So.
00:17:09.000 You know.
00:17:10.000 I'm only.
00:17:11.000 Always.
00:17:12.000 Trying to talk.
00:17:13.000 About.
00:17:14.000 Things that matter.
00:17:15.000 Because.
00:17:16.000 Why the hell.
00:17:17.000 Bother.
00:17:18.000 Talking about.
00:17:19.000 Something else.
00:17:20.000 Like.
00:17:21.000 So.
00:17:22.000 I've got a little.
00:17:23.000 Farther on it.
00:17:24.000 I would say.
00:17:25.000 In recent.
00:17:26.000 Months.
00:17:27.000 Partly.
00:17:28.000 As a consequence.
00:17:29.000 Of having to.
00:17:30.000 Having to.
00:17:31.000 Speak to Sam Harris.
00:17:32.000 For eight hours.
00:17:33.000 Because Sam is.
00:17:34.000 Well.
00:17:35.000 You know.
00:17:36.000 I mean.
00:17:37.000 It's not so bad.
00:17:38.000 To put yourself.
00:17:39.000 In a situation.
00:17:40.000 Where you're forced.
00:17:41.000 To do something.
00:17:42.000 Right.
00:17:43.000 The necessity.
00:17:44.000 Can.
00:17:45.000 Crush you.
00:17:46.000 To put yourself.
00:17:47.000 In a difficult situation.
00:17:48.000 Not too difficult.
00:17:49.000 Hopefully.
00:17:50.000 Then.
00:17:51.000 Maybe.
00:17:52.000 You can rise.
00:17:53.000 To meet the challenge.
00:17:54.000 And.
00:17:55.000 You know.
00:17:56.000 Sam's a pretty.
00:17:57.000 Articulate.
00:17:58.000 Defender.
00:17:59.000 I happen to think.
00:18:00.000 That's an easier.
00:18:01.000 Position.
00:18:02.000 To argue.
00:18:03.000 Than the position.
00:18:04.000 That I've taken.
00:18:05.000 By the way.
00:18:06.000 But.
00:18:07.000 That might be.
00:18:08.000 My own.
00:18:09.000 Prejudice.
00:18:10.000 Viewpoint.
00:18:11.000 Inquiry.
00:18:12.000 Forced me.
00:18:13.000 To think through.
00:18:14.000 Things.
00:18:15.000 More deeply.
00:18:16.000 Than I had thought.
00:18:17.000 Through them.
00:18:18.000 Before.
00:18:19.000 And so.
00:18:20.000 And so.
00:18:21.000 That process.
00:18:22.000 Is continued.
00:18:23.000 So.
00:18:24.000 I'm going to use.
00:18:25.000 Rule one.
00:18:26.000 Mostly.
00:18:27.000 Tonight.
00:18:28.000 As the basis.
00:18:29.000 For this inquiry.
00:18:30.000 And so.
00:18:31.000 Rule one.
00:18:32.000 Is stand up.
00:18:33.000 Straight.
00:18:34.000 With your shoulders.
00:18:35.000 Back.
00:18:36.000 And it's a.
00:18:37.000 It's an inquiry into.
00:18:38.000 While I would say.
00:18:39.000 Two things.
00:18:40.000 To individual.
00:18:41.000 Into the individual.
00:18:42.000 Into individual.
00:18:43.000 Perception.
00:18:44.000 And ethical action.
00:18:45.000 It's something like that.
00:18:47.000 And.
00:18:48.000 It's such a complicated.
00:18:50.000 That's such a complicated.
00:18:52.000 Arrangement of topics.
00:18:54.000 That.
00:18:55.000 When I'm thinking about it.
00:18:56.000 Often get lost.
00:18:57.000 Because it spreads out.
00:18:58.000 To take in everything.
00:18:59.000 And then you can't think about it properly.
00:19:00.000 You got to narrow it.
00:19:01.000 And so.
00:19:02.000 The other thing.
00:19:03.000 That I'm trying to understand.
00:19:04.000 Is.
00:19:05.000 How.
00:19:06.000 The relationship.
00:19:07.000 Between the hierarchy.
00:19:08.000 And the individual.
00:19:09.000 Human perception.
00:19:10.000 And that's actually.
00:19:11.000 At the core.
00:19:12.000 Of the argument.
00:19:13.000 That I've been having.
00:19:14.000 With Sam.
00:19:15.000 Because.
00:19:16.000 Harris presumes.
00:19:17.000 That.
00:19:18.000 There's a world of facts.
00:19:19.000 And that you can perceive them.
00:19:20.000 And then you can derive.
00:19:21.000 The world of values.
00:19:22.000 Directly.
00:19:23.000 From the world of facts.
00:19:24.000 And I understand.
00:19:25.000 Why he's doing that.
00:19:26.000 He wants to do that.
00:19:27.000 Because.
00:19:28.000 He's not.
00:19:29.000 He's sick and tired.
00:19:30.000 My intuition.
00:19:31.000 That there's something wrong.
00:19:32.000 With moral relativism.
00:19:33.000 And then there definitely is.
00:19:34.000 The nihilism.
00:19:35.000 That it produces.
00:19:36.000 I think.
00:19:37.000 Is evidence.
00:19:38.000 At least.
00:19:39.000 Psychological evidence.
00:19:40.000 For the falsity.
00:19:41.000 Of it's.
00:19:42.000 Position.
00:19:43.000 Because I believe.
00:19:44.000 That.
00:19:45.000 A philosophy.
00:19:46.000 That makes people.
00:19:47.000 Mentally ill.
00:19:48.000 Is probably wrong.
00:19:49.000 And so.
00:19:50.000 Well.
00:19:51.000 It might not be.
00:19:52.000 Well.
00:19:53.000 If you knew.
00:19:54.000 The objective truth.
00:19:55.000 It would drive you.
00:19:56.000 Insane.
00:19:57.000 It's possible.
00:19:58.000 That the universe.
00:19:59.000 Is constructed.
00:20:00.000 So that.
00:20:01.000 That's the case.
00:20:02.000 And you know.
00:20:03.000 I mean.
00:20:04.000 It's not like.
00:20:05.000 There is.
00:20:06.000 Any shortage.
00:20:07.000 Of harsh.
00:20:08.000 Objective truths.
00:20:09.000 So.
00:20:10.000 You know.
00:20:11.000 Nietzsche said.
00:20:12.000 At one point.
00:20:13.000 That you could.
00:20:14.000 Tell the character.
00:20:15.000 Of a human being.
00:20:16.000 By how much.
00:20:17.000 Truth.
00:20:18.000 He or she.
00:20:19.000 Could tolerate.
00:20:20.000 Right.
00:20:21.000 Which is.
00:20:22.000 How long.
00:20:23.000 And sock you.
00:20:24.000 A good one.
00:20:25.000 You know.
00:20:26.000 It's.
00:20:27.000 Now and then.
00:20:28.000 You're lucky.
00:20:29.000 And you learn.
00:20:30.000 A truth.
00:20:31.000 That's comfortable.
00:20:32.000 But.
00:20:33.000 That doesn't happen.
00:20:34.000 Very often.
00:20:35.000 So.
00:20:36.000 All right.
00:20:37.000 So.
00:20:38.000 What I've been.
00:20:39.000 See.
00:20:40.000 See.
00:20:41.000 I don't believe.
00:20:42.000 That the idea.
00:20:43.000 That you can get.
00:20:44.000 From the world of facts.
00:20:45.000 To the world of values.
00:20:46.000 Without intermediation.
00:20:47.000 Is true.
00:20:48.000 I don't think.
00:20:49.000 You need.
00:20:50.000 To have a brain.
00:20:51.000 You have to perceive.
00:20:52.000 The world.
00:20:53.000 And I mean.
00:20:54.000 With your senses.
00:20:55.000 And like.
00:20:56.000 You do that.
00:20:57.000 Real easily.
00:20:58.000 You just look at the world.
00:20:59.000 And bang.
00:21:00.000 There it is.
00:21:01.000 It seems like.
00:21:02.000 It's straightforward.
00:21:03.000 It is not straightforward.
00:21:04.000 It seems impossible.
00:21:05.000 Because there's.
00:21:06.000 So many ways.
00:21:07.000 That you can perceive.
00:21:08.000 The world.
00:21:09.000 It's not obvious.
00:21:10.000 At all.
00:21:11.000 How we can settle.
00:21:12.000 On the one.
00:21:13.000 That we use.
00:21:14.000 At any given moment.
00:21:15.000 You know.
00:21:16.000 Like.
00:21:17.000 If you are an artist.
00:21:18.000 Think about it.
00:21:19.000 This way.
00:21:20.000 This part of the stage.
00:21:21.000 And then you decide.
00:21:22.000 To make a painting of it.
00:21:23.000 And you think.
00:21:24.000 Well that's easy.
00:21:25.000 You painted white.
00:21:26.000 And black.
00:21:27.000 It's like.
00:21:28.000 No you don't.
00:21:29.000 Because it's not.
00:21:30.000 White and black.
00:21:31.000 And like.
00:21:32.000 I have a friend.
00:21:33.000 Who's an artist.
00:21:34.000 And he actually painted.
00:21:35.000 A picture of a stage.
00:21:36.000 Like this.
00:21:37.000 Is lit.
00:21:38.000 In multiple ways.
00:21:39.000 Like this stage.
00:21:40.000 Is lit.
00:21:41.000 You know.
00:21:42.000 And he painted.
00:21:43.000 All the shadows.
00:21:44.000 And here.
00:21:45.000 For example.
00:21:46.000 Up here.
00:21:47.000 I can see.
00:21:48.000 Probably.
00:21:49.000 Twenty shadows.
00:21:50.000 Of me.
00:21:51.000 From these lights.
00:21:52.000 And every shadow.
00:21:53.000 Is multiple.
00:21:54.000 Hues.
00:21:55.000 Of maybe.
00:21:56.000 Grey.
00:21:57.000 But it's not even.
00:21:58.000 Grey.
00:21:59.000 It's complicated.
00:22:00.000 Colors.
00:22:01.000 And kind of.
00:22:02.000 An infinite.
00:22:03.000 Number.
00:22:04.000 Of complicated.
00:22:05.000 Colors.
00:22:06.000 That isn't going to work.
00:22:07.000 It's just going to look like.
00:22:08.000 You don't know what you're doing.
00:22:09.000 And that's because.
00:22:10.000 You don't know what you're doing.
00:22:11.000 That's why.
00:22:12.000 You know.
00:22:13.000 I think.
00:22:14.000 I think that.
00:22:15.000 This is reflected.
00:22:16.000 Sometimes.
00:22:17.000 For people.
00:22:18.000 In psychedelic experience.
00:22:19.000 You know.
00:22:20.000 Because in psychedelic experience.
00:22:21.000 People get lost.
00:22:22.000 In the detail.
00:22:23.000 Right.
00:22:24.000 They lose their ability.
00:22:25.000 To see.
00:22:26.000 The vague.
00:22:27.000 Generalities.
00:22:28.000 That they normally perceive.
00:22:29.000 And they start to see.
00:22:30.000 How complicated.
00:22:31.000 Things actually are.
00:22:32.000 And they get.
00:22:33.000 Absolutely.
00:22:34.000 Lost in it.
00:22:35.000 To simplify the world.
00:22:36.000 Man.
00:22:37.000 Because if you're.
00:22:38.000 Entranced.
00:22:39.000 By it's complexity.
00:22:40.000 You're going to wander out.
00:22:41.000 In traffic.
00:22:42.000 And die.
00:22:43.000 Right.
00:22:44.000 You're not.
00:22:45.000 Well.
00:22:46.000 You're not going to be able.
00:22:47.000 To focus on.
00:22:48.000 The one thing.
00:22:49.000 You need to focus on.
00:22:50.000 To survive.
00:22:51.000 Or the two things.
00:22:52.000 Or the ten things.
00:22:53.000 And ignore.
00:22:54.000 Everything around you.
00:22:55.000 That's.
00:22:56.000 Complex.
00:22:57.000 Beyond comprehension.
00:22:58.000 And you know that.
00:22:59.000 If you.
00:23:00.000 You just.
00:23:01.000 Have to think about it.
00:23:02.000 A little bit.
00:23:03.000 You know that.
00:23:04.000 Like if I look at any.
00:23:05.000 Person.
00:23:06.000 It's like.
00:23:07.000 Well.
00:23:08.000 I can only see the front of you.
00:23:09.000 And I can only see you.
00:23:10.000 In two dimensions.
00:23:11.000 And I.
00:23:12.000 And if I replaced you.
00:23:13.000 With a cartoon.
00:23:14.000 That would actually.
00:23:15.000 Work pretty well.
00:23:16.000 Right.
00:23:17.000 The Simpsons.
00:23:18.000 That works.
00:23:19.000 And they're clearly.
00:23:20.000 Two dimensional.
00:23:21.000 And flat.
00:23:22.000 Right.
00:23:23.000 Highly.
00:23:24.000 Highly.
00:23:25.000 Simplified.
00:23:26.000 But.
00:23:27.000 If you watch.
00:23:28.000 A complex story.
00:23:29.000 Played out.
00:23:30.000 By highly simplified.
00:23:31.000 Cartoon characters.
00:23:32.000 You don't care.
00:23:33.000 Right.
00:23:34.000 Doesn't matter at all.
00:23:35.000 It's just.
00:23:36.000 You think about.
00:23:37.000 South Park.
00:23:38.000 In the animation.
00:23:39.000 Could hardly be.
00:23:40.000 More primitive.
00:23:41.000 Right.
00:23:42.000 It's basically.
00:23:43.000 Cut out.
00:23:44.000 But it.
00:23:45.000 Functionally.
00:23:46.000 In the world.
00:23:47.000 And what you see.
00:23:48.000 Of the world.
00:23:49.000 When you're perceiving.
00:23:50.000 It normally.
00:23:51.000 Is something like.
00:23:52.000 A cartoon.
00:23:53.000 It's a low resolution.
00:23:54.000 Representation.
00:23:55.000 Of a very.
00:23:56.000 High resolution.
00:23:57.000 Background.
00:23:58.000 And maybe.
00:23:59.000 I've always.
00:24:00.000 I've been trying.
00:24:01.000 To figure out.
00:24:02.000 What.
00:24:03.000 How it is.
00:24:04.000 That you determine.
00:24:05.000 How low.
00:24:06.000 A resolution.
00:24:07.000 You can get away.
00:24:08.000 With.
00:24:09.000 And it's something like.
00:24:10.000 You don't want to.
00:24:11.000 Perceive.
00:24:12.000 Anything.
00:24:13.000 To be more complicated.
00:24:14.000 Than you need to.
00:24:15.000 Functional element.
00:24:16.000 To it.
00:24:17.000 You know.
00:24:18.000 We tend to think.
00:24:19.000 We see objects.
00:24:20.000 In the world.
00:24:21.000 Factual objects.
00:24:22.000 And then we.
00:24:23.000 We assume.
00:24:24.000 What.
00:24:25.000 We think about.
00:24:26.000 What they are.
00:24:27.000 And we evaluate.
00:24:28.000 Them.
00:24:29.000 And then we decide.
00:24:30.000 How to act.
00:24:31.000 And that's actually.
00:24:32.000 Not how you perceive.
00:24:33.000 The world.
00:24:34.000 That's actually.
00:24:35.000 What you see.
00:24:36.000 In the world.
00:24:37.000 And so.
00:24:38.000 There's some.
00:24:39.000 Mechanism.
00:24:40.000 That you use.
00:24:41.000 To simplify.
00:24:42.000 The world.
00:24:43.000 Down to.
00:24:44.000 Those things.
00:24:45.000 That you should.
00:24:46.000 Know.
00:24:47.000 It's subtle.
00:24:48.000 It's subtle.
00:24:49.000 And it.
00:24:50.000 It affects.
00:24:51.000 Things in ways.
00:24:52.000 That.
00:24:53.000 You can't really.
00:24:54.000 You never really.
00:24:55.000 Guess.
00:24:56.000 So.
00:24:57.000 Let me.
00:24:58.000 Give you.
00:24:59.000 I remembered.
00:25:00.000 A graduate student.
00:25:01.000 Who told me.
00:25:02.000 That.
00:25:03.000 She was pretty.
00:25:04.000 Left-leaning.
00:25:05.000 My student.
00:25:06.000 Most.
00:25:07.000 Kind of.
00:25:08.000 A social.
00:25:09.000 Psychologist.
00:25:10.000 She was.
00:25:11.000 Kind of.
00:25:12.000 Communitarian.
00:25:13.000 In her.
00:25:14.000 Ethical.
00:25:15.000 Orientation.
00:25:16.000 So.
00:25:17.000 She thought.
00:25:18.000 For example.
00:25:19.000 That if you.
00:25:20.000 Set up.
00:25:21.000 Flat.
00:25:22.000 So.
00:25:23.000 That everybody.
00:25:24.000 Had equal.
00:25:25.000 Status.
00:25:26.000 That would be.
00:25:27.000 An organization.
00:25:28.000 And found.
00:25:29.000 That it was.
00:25:30.000 Exactly.
00:25:31.000 The opposite.
00:25:32.000 People.
00:25:33.000 Absolutely.
00:25:34.000 Hate.
00:25:35.000 Organizations.
00:25:36.000 Like.
00:25:37.000 Partly.
00:25:38.000 Because.
00:25:39.000 They're not.
00:25:40.000 Organized.
00:25:41.000 It's like.
00:25:42.000 Well.
00:25:43.000 Who do you.
00:25:44.000 Who.
00:25:45.000 Mediates.
00:25:46.000 Disputes.
00:25:47.000 Well.
00:25:48.000 No one.
00:25:49.000 Because.
00:25:50.000 It's a collective.
00:25:51.000 So.
00:25:52.000 Everyone has to.
00:25:53.000 Mediate.
00:25:54.000 Every dispute.
00:25:55.000 Well.
00:25:56.000 That's not.
00:25:57.000 To go.
00:25:58.000 For lunch.
00:25:59.000 It's like.
00:26:00.000 Twenty minutes.
00:26:01.000 Later.
00:26:02.000 Two of you.
00:26:03.000 Are still.
00:26:04.000 In the bathroom.
00:26:05.000 Right.
00:26:06.000 You haven't even.
00:26:07.000 Got out.
00:26:08.000 Of the hallway.
00:26:09.000 So.
00:26:10.000 You.
00:26:11.000 Can't even.
00:26:12.000 Organize.
00:26:13.000 Yourself.
00:26:14.000 To go.
00:26:15.000 For lunch.
00:26:16.000 Organizations.
00:26:17.000 But.
00:26:18.000 Happy.
00:26:19.000 Isn't.
00:26:20.000 The right word.
00:26:21.000 We.
00:26:22.000 Function.
00:26:23.000 More.
00:26:24.000 Effectively.
00:26:25.000 All.
00:26:26.000 Things.
00:26:27.000 Considered.
00:26:28.000 In.
00:26:29.000 Hierarchical.
00:26:30.000 Organizations.
00:26:31.000 What it is.
00:26:32.000 That you.
00:26:33.000 Should be.
00:26:34.000 Doing.
00:26:35.000 And.
00:26:36.000 Not only.
00:26:37.000 What you.
00:26:38.000 Should be.
00:26:39.000 Seeing.
00:26:40.000 Literally.
00:26:41.000 What you.
00:26:42.000 Should be.
00:26:43.000 Seeing.
00:26:44.000 What to look at.
00:26:45.000 And.
00:26:46.000 Also.
00:26:47.000 How you.
00:26:48.000 Figure out.
00:26:49.000 What to look at.
00:26:50.000 Which is.
00:26:51.000 How you.
00:26:52.000 Figure out.
00:26:53.000 What's important.
00:26:54.000 Which is.
00:26:55.000 What a hierarchy.
00:26:56.000 Is about.
00:26:57.000 What's important.
00:26:58.000 So.
00:26:59.000 Here's.
00:27:00.000 An interesting.
00:27:01.000 Little.
00:27:02.000 Finding.
00:27:03.000 If you.
00:27:04.000 Show.
00:27:05.000 Monkeys.
00:27:06.000 Pictures.
00:27:07.000 Of.
00:27:08.000 High.
00:27:09.000 Status.
00:27:10.000 Monkeys.
00:27:11.000 They.
00:27:12.000 And.
00:27:13.000 Then.
00:27:14.000 If you.
00:27:15.000 Test.
00:27:16.000 Their memory.
00:27:17.000 They.
00:27:18.000 Remember.
00:27:19.000 The.
00:27:20.000 High.
00:27:21.000 Status.
00:27:22.000 Monkeys.
00:27:23.000 So.
00:27:24.000 And.
00:27:25.000 Then.
00:27:26.000 The.
00:27:27.000 A.
00:27:28.000 Monkey.
00:27:29.000 Will.
00:27:30.000 Look.
00:27:31.000 At.
00:27:32.000 Something.
00:27:33.000 That.
00:27:34.000 A.
00:27:35.000 Low.
00:27:36.000 Status.
00:27:37.000 Monkey.
00:27:38.000 Is.
00:27:39.000 Looking.
00:27:40.000 Is.
00:27:41.000 That.
00:27:42.000 Important.
00:27:43.000 Which.
00:27:44.000 Is.
00:27:45.000 Maybe.
00:27:46.000 What.
00:27:47.000 You.
00:27:48.000 Should.
00:27:49.000 Focus.
00:27:50.000 Your.
00:27:51.000 Gaze.
00:27:52.000 On.
00:27:53.000 What.
00:27:54.000 You.
00:27:55.000 Should.
00:27:56.000 Focus.
00:27:57.000 Your.
00:27:58.000 Amat.
00:27:59.000 And.
00:28:00.000 One.
00:28:01.000 That.
00:28:02.000 People.
00:28:03.000 Who.
00:28:04.000 Are.
00:28:05.000 High.
00:28:06.000 In.
00:28:07.000 Status.
00:28:08.000 Hierarchies.
00:28:09.000 Look.
00:28:10.000 At.
00:28:11.000 Because.
00:28:12.000 That's.
00:28:13.000 A.
00:28:14.000 Clue.
00:28:15.000 To.
00:28:16.000 What.
00:28:17.000 Worth.
00:28:18.000 Looking.
00:28:19.000 At.
00:28:20.000 Why.
00:28:21.000 Well.
00:28:22.000 It's.
00:28:23.000 A.
00:28:24.000 Clue.
00:28:25.000 Because.
00:28:26.000 Everyone.
00:28:27.000 Has.
00:28:28.000 Decided.
00:28:29.000 That.
00:28:30.000 It's.
00:28:31.000 Valuable.
00:28:32.000 And.
00:28:33.000 What.
00:28:34.000 What.
00:28:35.000 Are.
00:28:36.000 You.
00:28:37.000 Going.
00:28:38.000 To.
00:28:39.000 To.
00:28:40.000 To.
00:28:41.000 To.
00:28:42.000 To.
00:28:43.000 To.
00:28:44.000 To.
00:28:45.000 To.
00:28:46.000 To.
00:28:47.000 To.
00:28:48.000 To.
00:28:49.000 To.
00:28:50.000 To.
00:28:51.000 To.
00:28:52.000 To.
00:28:53.000 To.
00:28:54.000 To.
00:28:55.000 To.
00:28:56.000 To.
00:28:58.000 To.
00:29:00.000 To.
00:29:01.000 To It.
00:29:02.000 To.
00:29:03.000 To.
00:29:04.000 To.
00:29:05.000 To.
00:29:06.000 And.
00:29:07.000 To.
00:29:08.000 To.
00:29:09.000 To.
00:29:10.000 To.
00:29:11.000 To.
00:29:12.000 To.
00:29:13.000 To.
00:29:14.000 To.
00:29:15.000 To.
00:29:16.000 To.
00:29:17.000 To.
00:29:18.000 To.
00:29:19.000 To.
00:29:20.000 To.
00:29:21.000 To.
00:29:22.140 To.
00:29:23.000 To.
00:29:24.000 To.
00:29:25.000 else is perceiving. And that's terribly dangerous. Because you don't want to be wandering around in a world
00:29:30.100 where no one else is looking at things the way you are. Right? Now maybe you're a spectacular genius
00:29:35.680 and you're on the cutting edge and all of that. But you're still going to suffer for that. But probably
00:29:39.640 not. Probably you're just unbelievably alienated or edging towards psychosis. And even if you're
00:29:47.020 correct and everybody else is wrong, it's not like that's going to be a comfortable place to be.
00:29:51.880 That's for sure. And you can tell that by how fast people backtrack online when they're mobbed on
00:29:58.760 Twitter. Right? They put something forward and say, well, here's what I think. And there's like mob.
00:30:03.620 And they go, whoa, no, I don't think that. Sorry. You know, I've also been fascinated by that.
00:30:11.520 Because one of the things I learned as a clinical psychologist is, you know, I often had clients
00:30:15.960 who had been backed into a corner by people who were very malevolent and were trying to discredit
00:30:20.780 them in various ways. And various, like various subtle and intelligent and pernicious ways.
00:30:28.780 Right? To undermine them. And one of the things I noticed was that people were very bad at mounting
00:30:33.340 their own defense. You know, so I spent two years with one client. Someone I worked with in a consulting
00:30:40.220 firm. And she had, she worked in a consulting firm. And she had moved in from another firm
00:30:44.860 with a big client. And when she moved into the new firm, someone undermined her with her client and
00:30:50.860 then took it. And then made up a story that she was neurotically insane. Partly because she objected
00:30:56.860 to the theft. Right? And this person was very, very effective at doing this. And he was winning
00:31:02.860 the battle. He was blackening her reputation in a very effective way. And it took like two years
00:31:08.860 to mount a defense for her to get the story straightened back out. Even in her own head. Right?
00:31:12.860 Because she wasn't sure what the reality was. Because it had got so twisted. It was then that I realized
00:31:18.860 that partly then how difficult it is to presume innocence instead of guilt even on your own behalf.
00:31:24.860 And then I also realized what an absolute bloody miracle it is that we have a legal system where
00:31:30.860 the fundamental presumption is one of innocence. You think, well that's self-evident. It's like,
00:31:34.860 believe me man, that is not self-evident. If ten people go after you and they say you're guilty,
00:31:40.860 you're gonna have a hell of a time disagreeing with it. Now maybe you're one ornery son of a bitch.
00:31:46.860 And you can tell everybody to screw off. In which case you probably have your own problems.
00:31:50.860 But, well, because that doesn't come without a cost. But the idea that you would just
00:31:56.860 automatically rise to your own defense if you were attacked unfairly. It's like,
00:32:00.860 I wouldn't rely on that presupposition too hard. Because if you were put to the test,
00:32:06.860 you may find that that's not the case at all. And that might even be a testament to your
00:32:10.860 fundamentally socialized nature. Right? Because like, if a hundred people come after you
00:32:15.860 and shake their finger and say you're wrong, you might be wrong.
00:32:19.860 And if, you know, you know what I mean. It's like a pure psychopath would just say screw you people.
00:32:25.860 Like I don't care what you think. But, you know, we're not really admirers of pure psychopaths.
00:32:30.860 And your own sociability might doom you under those circumstances.
00:32:34.860 So, anyways, back to the hierarchy idea. Now, so, here's something else that's really interesting about gaze.
00:32:42.860 So, not only do we have this interesting finding about the monkeys. They'll look at higher status monkeys more often.
00:32:48.860 And look where higher status monkeys look. Which is unbelievably cool. It's such a...
00:32:54.860 This is why I love animal experimentalists and ethologists. They come up with these weird little findings.
00:32:59.860 And you think, well, who cares if monkeys look where high status monkeys look.
00:33:03.860 It's like, no, you don't get it. You're a monkey. Right? And you look where high status monkeys look.
00:33:09.860 And that means it's wired into your biology. And to look... And it bears directly on the question of how we determine what constitutes value.
00:33:19.860 And it bears directly on the fact that one of the ways that we determine what constitutes value is by coming to a consensus about what's valuable.
00:33:26.860 And then having people mark what's valuable by their gaze. So, here's something else that's cool.
00:33:31.860 Particularly about human beings. So, we can really see. We can see better than any other animal except predatory birds.
00:33:38.860 So, and there's a variety of reasons for that. One of them seems to be that we evolved extremely high resolution vision.
00:33:45.860 Comparatively speaking. To detect reptilian predators. That's one of the... It's not the leading theory.
00:33:52.860 But it's one of the leading theories about how that was developed. So, I think that's extremely cool.
00:33:56.860 But here's something else. So, if you look at human beings eyes.
00:34:00.860 They're very particular and peculiar. Because we have an iris that's marked out by the white of the sclera.
00:34:08.860 Right? So, you know, you have a pupil. And then you have an iris. And then you have the white of your eyes.
00:34:13.860 Other animals don't have that. It's just us. What's the hypothesis?
00:34:18.860 Everybody... Every one of your ancestors who had eyes that other people could not read.
00:34:26.860 Either got killed or did not reproduce.
00:34:29.860 Because one of the things we absolutely want to know about everyone that's around us all the time.
00:34:33.860 Is what the hell are they doing with their eyes?
00:34:35.860 And why do we want to know that?
00:34:37.860 It's like... Well, think about it. When you look at someone, where do you look?
00:34:40.860 You know, you don't look at their neck. Right? You don't look at their shoulder.
00:34:44.860 You don't even really look at their face. You look at their eyes. You look at their eyebrows.
00:34:50.860 And your face is an emotional display unit. Right? It's unbelievably subtle.
00:34:55.860 You know, your facial musculature is so heavily innervated that you can learn to move one neuron in your face.
00:35:03.860 That's how high resolution your face is. And so, we're looking at faces to find out what people are interested in.
00:35:11.860 And we're looking at what people are interested in so we can figure out what the hell they're up to.
00:35:16.860 And so, that's how we understand people. It's so cool.
00:35:19.860 So, the way you understand someone, fundamentally, is you look at what they're looking at.
00:35:25.860 And then, you look at it. So, you're mimicking them with your body. Right?
00:35:29.860 So, if I'm looking at what you're looking at. We're sharing gaze.
00:35:32.860 Then we put ourselves in the same psychophysiological position.
00:35:36.860 We're after the same thing. And so, then our emotions line up.
00:35:39.860 So, imagine that you're playing Monopoly with someone. For example.
00:35:42.860 So, you share an aim. Right? Which is to win.
00:35:44.860 And because you share the aim, then you know what everybody is going to do from a motivational and emotional perspective.
00:35:50.860 Because you know that if they roll a double six, that they're going to be happy.
00:35:54.860 And if they land on go to jail, that they're going to be unhappy.
00:35:57.860 And so, the fact that the goal is shared. And the vision is shared. And the gaze is shared.
00:36:02.860 Means the emotions line up. And the motivations line up.
00:36:05.860 And as soon as the emotions and motivations line up.
00:36:08.860 Then the other people will act like you'll act. And then you can understand them.
00:36:13.860 And so, that's also why we need a common goal.
00:36:15.860 You know, in my country, in Canada. And increasingly in yours. And you better look the hell out about this.
00:36:21.860 I can tell you. We've fallen prey in Canada to the doctrine of multiculturalism.
00:36:26.860 Right? Which has been the official doctrine in Canada since about 1968.
00:36:30.860 And it sounds real nice. You know. That everybody can come to Canada.
00:36:33.860 And maintain their culture. And live in peace and harmony.
00:36:36.860 Until you realize that people around the world have maintained their culture everywhere.
00:36:41.860 And it's not exactly like they've been living in peace and harmony.
00:36:45.860 And so, why that would transition out of that tribal state of warfare.
00:36:49.860 You know, despite its advantages in terms of diversity.
00:36:52.860 Merely because you're now living in the frigid tundra of the northern wasteland.
00:36:58.860 Is beyond me.
00:36:59.860 You know. To the degree that people can bring their cultures to a new culture.
00:37:06.860 And live harmoniously. There's a relationship between them.
00:37:10.860 Between that ability to live in peace. And to adopt a common framework. Right?
00:37:15.860 A common vision. A common purpose. A common set of goals.
00:37:19.860 Because that is actually what unites people in peace.
00:37:22.860 It's the definition of being united in peace.
00:37:25.860 You know. If you have twenty people in a room.
00:37:27.860 And three of them want to play Monopoly.
00:37:29.860 And two of them want to play basketball.
00:37:31.860 And six of them want to have an orgy. And so forth.
00:37:33.860 You're just not going to have a coherent party. Right?
00:37:36.860 This might be exciting. But it's not going to be.
00:37:39.860 It's not going to be coherent.
00:37:41.860 There has to. And I think the politicians in my country.
00:37:44.860 Have been so damn naive. That they didn't understand.
00:37:47.860 That it was the fundamental unifying structures.
00:37:51.860 Of English common law. Among other things.
00:37:53.860 That provided the framework. Within which peace could be had.
00:37:57.860 If people brought the diverse beliefs of their various cultures.
00:38:00.860 And subordinated them to that overarching framework.
00:38:03.860 It's right. So it's yes. You can maintain your culture.
00:38:06.860 But you have to act within the boundaries of constitutional belief.
00:38:10.860 That minimum. Something like that.
00:38:12.860 You can't just. Throw that away. And say it's nothing.
00:38:14.860 It's like it's bloody well. Not nothing. That's for sure.
00:38:18.860 So you have to get your aim together.
00:38:20.860 And to get your aim together. Is the. Is the. Is the hallmark.
00:38:24.860 It's the hallmark of peace. And the hallmark also of productivity.
00:38:26.860 As far as I can tell. It's something like that. So. Okay. So.
00:38:31.860 Alright. So that's a bit of a discussion about. About the idea of aim.
00:38:36.860 Now. Now. I'm going to. Start from a different position.
00:38:39.860 So. I said. Before this talk. That I was standing backstage.
00:38:43.860 Trying to figure out what the hell I was doing.
00:38:45.860 And. Then. I talked to you a little bit about.
00:38:47.860 The. The fact that. Whatever we're doing here.
00:38:51.860 Is a consequence of this technological revolution.
00:38:53.860 And I believe that that's the case.
00:38:55.860 But I don't think that's all of it.
00:38:57.860 It's not all medium. Some of it's message.
00:38:59.860 And. One of the things that I've been thinking about. Is that.
00:39:03.860 You know. I'm. Attempting.
00:39:05.860 To mount a defense. For.
00:39:07.860 Classic western values.
00:39:09.860 Let's say that. Particularly the value of individuality.
00:39:11.860 Right. The end. There's a core idea there.
00:39:13.860 The core idea is that. I don't care who you are.
00:39:15.860 But. I'm going to interact with you.
00:39:17.860 As if your individual identity. Is super ordinate to your group identity.
00:39:21.860 Or to the multiplicity of your group identities.
00:39:23.860 And that's the proper way of looking at the world.
00:39:27.860 And. What I mean by proper. Is something like.
00:39:29.860 You. If you don't look at the world that way.
00:39:33.860 You. You. You are doing something.
00:39:37.860 Truly perilous.
00:39:39.860 And I believe that. I believe that.
00:39:41.860 If you invert that.
00:39:43.860 Because I know everyone has a group identity. Or multiple group identities.
00:39:45.860 We're social creatures. Right.
00:39:47.860 We all fit into different groups.
00:39:49.860 Which is one of the problems with claiming.
00:39:51.860 That our primary identity. Is a group identity.
00:39:53.860 It's right. Okay.
00:39:55.860 Which group identity.
00:39:57.860 And even the. Identity politics types.
00:39:59.860 Who pursue intersectionality.
00:40:01.860 Ran across that particular conundrum.
00:40:03.860 It's like. Well. If you have two identities.
00:40:05.860 Which one is paramount.
00:40:07.860 What's the intersection between them.
00:40:09.860 What if you have ten identities. Group identities.
00:40:11.860 Which you do.
00:40:13.860 At least. They can be multiplied.
00:40:15.860 Beyond. Count in some sense.
00:40:17.860 If you make group identity paramount.
00:40:21.860 Then you degenerate into tribalism.
00:40:23.860 And if you degenerate into tribalism.
00:40:25.860 You degenerate into war.
00:40:27.860 That's what it looks like to me.
00:40:29.860 And I think the only way out of that.
00:40:31.860 Even though it might not be that stable a way.
00:40:33.860 Because who knows. If there is a way out of that.
00:40:35.860 Right. Being tribal and warlike.
00:40:37.860 That's us.
00:40:39.860 You know. Chimpanzees go to war.
00:40:41.860 You know. That was discovered by Jane Goodall.
00:40:43.860 In the 1970's.
00:40:45.860 And that was a major discovery.
00:40:47.860 Because up till then.
00:40:49.860 I would say. The more left leaning anthropologists.
00:40:51.860 What made the presumption.
00:40:53.860 That the reason that human beings.
00:40:55.860 Were warlike. Was because we had been.
00:40:57.860 Warped by the.
00:40:59.860 Warped by our cultures.
00:41:01.860 You know. We're basically good people.
00:41:03.860 It's kind of the noble savage idea.
00:41:05.860 You're basically good when you're born.
00:41:07.860 But as you grow up. You're corrupted by your culture.
00:41:09.860 One of the consequences of being corrupted by your culture.
00:41:11.860 Is that. Maybe you become aggressive and bitter.
00:41:13.860 And you turn to warfare.
00:41:15.860 Something like that.
00:41:17.860 It's a view that was.
00:41:19.860 Grounded in the thinking of Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
00:41:21.860 And that's basically what he believed.
00:41:23.860 Human beings are basically good.
00:41:25.860 But culture corrupts us.
00:41:27.860 No. Human beings are basically good and evil.
00:41:29.860 And culture corrupts and ennobles us.
00:41:33.860 And that's a way different story.
00:41:35.860 And don't be thinking of romantic thoughts.
00:41:37.860 About mother nature.
00:41:39.860 You know. She's got it in for you.
00:41:41.860 In the final analysis.
00:41:43.860 So. This is what I always think.
00:41:45.860 When I hear environmentalists.
00:41:47.860 Talk about the planet.
00:41:49.860 Being better off with people.
00:41:51.860 If people weren't on it.
00:41:53.860 Which is not a sentiment.
00:41:55.860 I particularly appreciate.
00:41:57.860 To her.
00:41:59.860 It's not like we're trying.
00:42:01.860 It's not like we're not just trying.
00:42:03.860 To mount a reasonable defense.
00:42:05.860 You know.
00:42:07.860 To ever get.
00:42:09.860 We do pollute our own nest.
00:42:11.860 To some degree.
00:42:13.860 Casual.
00:42:15.860 It's not all just in the pursuit of leisure.
00:42:17.860 It's like we're trying.
00:42:19.860 And that tends to make a bit of a mess.
00:42:21.860 And maybe we're not as good at.
00:42:23.860 You know.
00:42:25.860 It might be.
00:42:26.860 But we're trying.
00:42:27.860 Christ.
00:42:28.860 It wasn't until the 1960's.
00:42:29.860 That we even realized.
00:42:30.860 That human beings had enough motive force.
00:42:32.860 As a collective group.
00:42:34.860 To actually pose something.
00:42:36.860 Approximating a threat.
00:42:37.860 To the ecological stability of the planet.
00:42:39.860 It's like 58 years ago.
00:42:41.860 You know.
00:42:42.860 It's just.
00:42:43.860 It's yesterday.
00:42:44.860 Right.
00:42:45.860 That's only two years.
00:42:46.860 That was like a year before I was born.
00:42:47.860 It's not even a lifetime ago.
00:42:49.860 That was realized.
00:42:50.860 We're doing pretty good.
00:42:51.860 For people.
00:42:52.860 For creatures.
00:42:53.860 That are just waking up.
00:42:54.860 To their planetary scale responsibilities.
00:42:57.860 Anyways.
00:42:58.860 Back to.
00:43:00.860 Back to.
00:43:01.860 Well.
00:43:02.860 Obviously.
00:43:03.860 That irritates me.
00:43:04.860 To a great degree.
00:43:05.860 Well.
00:43:06.860 I'm sick and tired.
00:43:07.860 Of people.
00:43:08.860 I'm sick and tired.
00:43:09.860 Of people being.
00:43:10.860 Denigrated.
00:43:11.860 You know.
00:43:12.860 I actually like human beings.
00:43:13.860 And they're pretty peculiar.
00:43:14.860 Like Eric Weinstein.
00:43:15.860 For example.
00:43:16.860 It's like just.
00:43:17.860 You know.
00:43:18.860 But.
00:43:19.860 But.
00:43:20.860 Remarkable.
00:43:21.860 Creatures.
00:43:22.860 You know.
00:43:23.860 And I think we deserve.
00:43:24.860 A little bit of.
00:43:25.860 We deserve to have.
00:43:26.860 A little sympathy.
00:43:27.860 For ourselves.
00:43:28.860 For Christ's sake.
00:43:29.860 Like.
00:43:30.860 We've got a burden.
00:43:31.860 That's completely unbearable.
00:43:32.860 We're the only creatures.
00:43:33.860 That fully understand.
00:43:34.860 Our extension in time.
00:43:35.860 We're the only creatures.
00:43:36.860 That know.
00:43:37.860 We're mortal.
00:43:38.860 We're the only creatures.
00:43:39.860 That know.
00:43:40.860 That suffering.
00:43:41.860 Is coming in the future.
00:43:42.860 I can't believe.
00:43:43.860 That we're all.
00:43:44.860 Not just.
00:43:45.860 Stark.
00:43:46.860 Raving.
00:43:47.860 I was never.
00:43:48.860 Curious.
00:43:49.860 About why people were anxious.
00:43:50.860 Or depressed.
00:43:51.860 Or why they drank too much.
00:43:53.860 It's like.
00:43:54.860 Yeah.
00:43:55.860 No.
00:43:56.860 You're anxious.
00:43:57.860 Really.
00:43:58.860 There's a shock.
00:43:59.860 It's like.
00:44:00.860 You're depressed.
00:44:01.860 I had cancer.
00:44:02.860 And I.
00:44:03.860 I was unemployed.
00:44:04.860 And then my wife left.
00:44:05.860 And you're depressed.
00:44:06.860 Really.
00:44:07.860 If you're not.
00:44:08.860 You're not depressed.
00:44:09.860 You have a miserable life.
00:44:10.860 Right.
00:44:11.860 Right.
00:44:12.860 Well that's a distinction.
00:44:13.860 You bloody well.
00:44:14.860 Want to make.
00:44:15.860 If you're a clinical psychologist.
00:44:16.860 It was such a relief.
00:44:17.860 To my clients.
00:44:18.860 They'd come in.
00:44:19.860 And they'd tell me this story.
00:44:20.860 And I'd just be like.
00:44:21.860 Really.
00:44:22.860 That happened to you.
00:44:23.860 And you're.
00:44:24.860 It's like.
00:44:25.860 And.
00:44:26.860 Well.
00:44:27.860 And I'm a little depressed.
00:44:28.860 It's like.
00:44:29.860 No.
00:44:30.860 You're not.
00:44:31.860 You're not.
00:44:32.860 You have a terrible life.
00:44:33.860 Man.
00:44:34.860 It's terrible.
00:44:35.860 And they'd be so relieved.
00:44:36.860 You know.
00:44:37.860 Because they were wandering around.
00:44:38.860 Thinking.
00:44:39.860 They're wandering around.
00:44:41.860 Thinking.
00:44:42.860 Well.
00:44:43.860 I'm all weak.
00:44:44.860 And depressed.
00:44:45.860 It's like.
00:44:46.860 No.
00:44:47.860 You're not.
00:44:48.860 You're just tortured.
00:44:49.860 To death.
00:44:50.860 By God.
00:44:51.860 It's amazing.
00:44:52.860 You're still standing.
00:44:53.860 So.
00:44:54.860 And I think that's actually true.
00:44:55.860 Of most people's lives.
00:44:56.860 Quite often.
00:44:57.860 You know.
00:44:58.860 Because.
00:44:59.860 Even you.
00:45:00.860 You talk to fortunate people.
00:45:01.860 You know.
00:45:02.860 They look fortunate.
00:45:03.860 From the outside.
00:45:04.860 And.
00:45:05.860 You talk to them.
00:45:06.860 Seriously.
00:45:07.860 For half an hour.
00:45:08.860 About.
00:45:09.860 What's happened to them.
00:45:10.860 In their lives.
00:45:11.860 Or maybe.
00:45:12.860 What's even going on.
00:45:13.860 Right now.
00:45:14.860 It's like.
00:45:15.860 Tragedy is one degree away.
00:45:16.860 From everyone.
00:45:17.860 All the time.
00:45:18.860 So.
00:45:19.860 All right.
00:45:20.860 So.
00:45:21.860 Back to this idea.
00:45:22.860 Of aim.
00:45:23.860 Involved.
00:45:24.860 So that other people.
00:45:25.860 Can read your eyes.
00:45:26.860 And so.
00:45:27.860 What that means.
00:45:28.860 Is that we're.
00:45:29.860 It means something like.
00:45:30.860 It means something like.
00:45:31.860 We're engaged.
00:45:32.860 In the collective.
00:45:33.860 Process.
00:45:34.860 Of determining.
00:45:35.860 How things.
00:45:36.860 What things.
00:45:37.860 Are valuable.
00:45:38.860 It's something like that.
00:45:39.860 Okay.
00:45:40.860 So.
00:45:41.860 Now.
00:45:42.860 I'm going to think about this.
00:45:43.860 From a free market perspective.
00:45:44.860 So.
00:45:45.860 Here's a defense.
00:45:46.860 Of the free market system.
00:45:47.860 And this is.
00:45:48.860 This is.
00:45:49.860 This is a.
00:45:50.860 I know.
00:45:51.860 God.
00:45:52.860 Who would ever guess.
00:45:53.860 That you could hear that.
00:45:54.860 Right.
00:45:55.860 The reason.
00:45:56.860 That we need a free market.
00:45:57.860 Is because.
00:45:58.860 We're stupid.
00:45:59.860 Right.
00:46:00.860 And so.
00:46:01.860 Like.
00:46:02.860 I read at one point.
00:46:03.860 And I think.
00:46:04.860 It was in.
00:46:05.860 Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
00:46:06.860 That.
00:46:07.860 The central.
00:46:08.860 Soviet.
00:46:09.860 Had to make.
00:46:10.860 A hundred and fifty thousand.
00:46:11.860 Pricing decisions.
00:46:12.860 No.
00:46:13.860 It's three thousand.
00:46:14.860 Pricing decisions.
00:46:15.860 A day.
00:46:16.860 Now.
00:46:17.860 I might have.
00:46:18.860 The figure.
00:46:19.860 Wrong.
00:46:20.860 Or any sort of business.
00:46:21.860 Where you had a product.
00:46:22.860 But if you did.
00:46:23.860 What you'd find.
00:46:24.860 Is that.
00:46:25.860 Pricing a product.
00:46:26.860 Is insanely difficult.
00:46:27.860 You know.
00:46:28.860 So.
00:46:29.860 We built this.
00:46:30.860 Self-authoring program.
00:46:31.860 For example.
00:46:32.860 We built this other.
00:46:33.860 Program.
00:46:34.860 Which we never could.
00:46:35.860 Really sell.
00:46:36.860 That help people.
00:46:37.860 Hire better employees.
00:46:38.860 Turned out.
00:46:39.860 They didn't want.
00:46:40.860 To hire better employees.
00:46:41.860 So that didn't work.
00:46:42.860 So.
00:46:43.860 Who knew.
00:46:44.860 You know.
00:46:45.860 And we could never figure out.
00:46:46.860 How to price it.
00:46:47.860 We thought.
00:46:48.860 Well.
00:46:49.860 What's the right price.
00:46:50.860 Well.
00:46:51.860 What's the right price.
00:46:52.860 And think.
00:46:53.860 Well.
00:46:54.860 What does that question mean.
00:46:55.860 Well.
00:46:56.860 It means.
00:46:57.860 What is that thing.
00:46:58.860 Worth.
00:46:59.860 In comparison.
00:47:00.860 To what.
00:47:01.860 Every other thing.
00:47:02.860 That's worth.
00:47:03.860 Something is worth.
00:47:04.860 It's like.
00:47:05.860 Oh.
00:47:06.860 Huh.
00:47:07.860 That's a hard.
00:47:08.860 Computational.
00:47:09.860 Problem.
00:47:10.860 And then.
00:47:11.860 This is what.
00:47:12.860 Part of the reason.
00:47:13.860 The Soviet system.
00:47:14.860 Collapsed.
00:47:15.860 Like.
00:47:16.860 What's a nail.
00:47:17.860 Worth.
00:47:18.860 Well.
00:47:19.860 You don't know.
00:47:20.860 Go make one.
00:47:21.860 See how hard it is.
00:47:22.860 It's really hard to make a nail.
00:47:23.860 It's really hard to find the iron ore.
00:47:24.860 Like.
00:47:25.860 It's difficult.
00:47:26.860 Maybe.
00:47:27.860 Who knows what a nail is worth.
00:47:28.860 It's worth a hell of a lot.
00:47:29.860 If it's.
00:47:30.860 What stands between you and death.
00:47:31.860 Like.
00:47:32.860 A nail is worth a lot.
00:47:33.860 And how do you figure out what it's worth.
00:47:34.860 Well.
00:47:35.860 It's something like.
00:47:36.860 You let everyone.
00:47:37.860 Bid on it.
00:47:38.860 And.
00:47:39.860 You accept the result.
00:47:40.860 And.
00:47:41.860 The reason you do that.
00:47:42.860 Is because there's all these people.
00:47:43.860 And they're pursuing all these things.
00:47:44.860 All these different things.
00:47:45.860 This multitude of things.
00:47:46.860 And so.
00:47:47.860 If you let this.
00:47:48.860 The free market.
00:47:49.860 Which is a.
00:47:50.860 What do you call it.
00:47:51.860 Distributed cognitive system.
00:47:52.860 That's what it is.
00:47:53.860 It's a distributed.
00:47:54.860 Computational system.
00:47:55.860 That takes all things.
00:47:56.860 Into account.
00:47:57.860 As well.
00:47:58.860 As the collective brain power.
00:47:59.860 Of the entire mass of human beings.
00:48:00.860 That are operating.
00:48:01.860 Within that framework.
00:48:02.860 Can manage.
00:48:03.860 And it does it all.
00:48:04.860 Simultaneously.
00:48:05.860 And it makes errors.
00:48:06.860 Because we get bubbles.
00:48:07.860 Right.
00:48:08.860 Price bubbles.
00:48:09.860 And so forth.
00:48:10.860 And you get economic.
00:48:11.860 Collapses.
00:48:12.860 It's not a perfect mechanism.
00:48:13.860 But it's not a perfect mechanism.
00:48:14.860 Because it's trying to solve.
00:48:15.860 An impossible problem.
00:48:16.860 And it does it.
00:48:17.860 Pretty damn.
00:48:18.860 Well.
00:48:19.860 And so.
00:48:20.860 Price.
00:48:21.860 Monetary price.
00:48:22.860 Is a decent.
00:48:23.860 Indicator of value.
00:48:24.860 But not a perfect one.
00:48:25.860 Because.
00:48:26.860 We all know.
00:48:27.860 That there are things.
00:48:28.860 That have value.
00:48:29.860 That you can't price.
00:48:30.860 And that means.
00:48:31.860 That pricing isn't.
00:48:32.860 A perfect representation.
00:48:33.860 Of value.
00:48:34.860 But it's not.
00:48:35.860 Bad.
00:48:36.860 It's good enough.
00:48:37.860 So that most of the time.
00:48:38.860 We can trade.
00:48:39.860 Without having to.
00:48:40.860 Kill each other.
00:48:41.860 Or steal.
00:48:42.860 And you know.
00:48:43.860 And that's really.
00:48:44.860 Something.
00:48:45.860 And so.
00:48:46.860 Well.
00:48:47.860 That's my defense.
00:48:48.860 Part of the defense.
00:48:49.860 Of the free market.
00:48:50.860 Is that.
00:48:51.860 Well.
00:48:52.860 We're too stupid.
00:48:53.860 To calculate.
00:48:54.860 The price of things.
00:48:55.860 All the time.
00:48:56.860 So.
00:48:57.860 Then you think.
00:48:58.860 Well.
00:48:59.860 Some things are worth.
00:49:00.860 More than others.
00:49:01.860 Right.
00:49:02.860 So.
00:49:03.860 You get a hierarchy.
00:49:04.860 And so.
00:49:05.860 In the.
00:49:06.860 Implicit.
00:49:07.860 In the process.
00:49:08.860 Of.
00:49:09.860 Pricing.
00:49:10.860 Which is.
00:49:11.860 This universal voting.
00:49:12.860 Is the.
00:49:13.860 Hierarchical organization.
00:49:14.860 Of things.
00:49:15.860 Into.
00:49:16.860 Rank order.
00:49:17.860 I read today.
00:49:18.860 Too.
00:49:19.860 In this same paper.
00:49:20.860 That.
00:49:21.860 The part of your brain.
00:49:22.860 That processes.
00:49:23.860 Essentially.
00:49:24.860 Is.
00:49:25.860 What's the.
00:49:26.860 Relationship.
00:49:27.860 Between.
00:49:28.860 Social status.
00:49:29.860 And.
00:49:30.860 Social hierarchy.
00:49:31.860 And.
00:49:32.860 Rank order.
00:49:33.860 Pricing.
00:49:34.860 Now.
00:49:35.860 You think.
00:49:36.860 Well.
00:49:37.860 Why.
00:49:38.860 Would you think.
00:49:39.860 There's a relationship.
00:49:40.860 Between.
00:49:41.860 Social status.
00:49:42.860 And.
00:49:43.860 Value.
00:49:44.860 Because.
00:49:45.860 Otherwise.
00:49:46.860 Rich.
00:49:47.860 High status.
00:49:48.860 People.
00:49:49.860 Wouldn't.
00:49:50.860 Get the most.
00:49:51.860 Valuable.
00:49:52.860 Things.
00:49:53.860 In some sense.
00:49:54.860 They're identical.
00:49:55.860 Right.
00:49:56.860 So.
00:49:57.860 There's a.
00:49:58.860 Very tight.
00:49:59.860 Relationship.
00:50:00.860 Between.
00:50:01.860 Social status.
00:50:02.860 And.
00:50:03.860 Value.
00:50:04.860 Genuine.
00:50:05.860 And.
00:50:06.860 Valid.
00:50:07.860 To be.
00:50:08.860 Said.
00:50:09.860 About.
00:50:10.860 That.
00:50:11.860 So.
00:50:12.860 Then.
00:50:13.860 The.
00:50:14.860 Question.
00:50:15.860 Would.
00:50:16.860 You.
00:50:17.860 Rather.
00:50:18.860 Be.
00:50:19.860 Rich.
00:50:20.860 Or.
00:50:21.860 Know.
00:50:22.860 How.
00:50:23.860 To.
00:50:24.860 Generate.
00:50:25.860 Money.
00:50:26.860 If.
00:50:27.860 You.
00:50:28.860 Had.
00:50:29.860 To.
00:50:30.860 Pick.
00:50:31.860 One.
00:50:32.860 Cross-Cultural.
00:50:33.860 So.
00:50:34.860 If.
00:50:35.860 You.
00:50:36.860 Look.
00:50:37.860 At.
00:50:38.860 Female.
00:50:39.860 Mating.
00:50:40.860 Preferences.
00:50:41.860 Women.
00:50:42.860 Mate.
00:50:43.860 Across.
00:50:44.860 Or.
00:50:45.860 Up.
00:50:46.860 Social.
00:50:47.860 Hierarchies.
00:50:48.860 No.
00:50:49.860 Matter.
00:50:50.860 What.
00:50:51.860 The.
00:50:52.860 Culture.
00:50:53.860 Is.
00:50:54.860 Even.
00:50:55.860 In.
00:50:56.860 We.
00:50:57.860 Thought.
00:50:58.860 Well.
00:50:59.860 Are.
00:51:00.860 Be.
00:51:01.860 Stolen.
00:51:02.860 Say.
00:51:03.860 It.
00:51:04.860 Hard.
00:51:05.860 To.
00:51:06.860 Store.
00:51:07.860 But.
00:51:08.860 Your.
00:51:09.860 Ability.
00:51:10.860 To.
00:51:11.860 Generate.
00:51:12.860 An.
00:51:13.860 Excess.
00:51:14.860 Well.
00:51:15.860 That.
00:51:16.860 Sort.
00:51:17.860 Of.
00:51:18.860 A.
00:51:19.860 Fundamental.
00:51:20.860 Characteristic.
00:51:21.860 Maybe.
00:51:22.860 That.
00:51:23.860 Associated.
00:51:24.860 With.
00:51:25.860 Your.
00:51:26.860 Intelligence.
00:51:27.860 On.
00:51:28.860 The.
00:51:29.860 Bet.
00:51:30.860 That.
00:51:31.860 It's.
00:51:32.860 A.
00:51:33.860 Better.
00:51:34.860 Bet.
00:51:35.860 To.
00:51:36.860 Select.
00:51:37.860 For.
00:51:38.860 Generativity.
00:51:39.860 Than.
00:51:40.860 Wealth.
00:51:41.860 And.
00:51:42.860 Here.
00:51:43.860 Here.
00:51:44.860 Here.
00:51:45.860 Is.
00:51:46.860 An.
00:51:47.860 Issue.
00:51:48.860 To.
00:51:49.860 Let's.
00:51:50.860 Say.
00:51:51.860 You.
00:51:52.860 Had.
00:51:53.860 A.
00:51:54.860 Choice.
00:51:55.860 It's.
00:51:56.860 Intelligence.
00:51:57.860 Yeah.
00:51:58.860 Which.
00:51:59.860 I.
00:52:00.860 Love.
00:52:01.860 That.
00:52:02.860 That's.
00:52:03.860 So cool.
00:52:04.860 Because.
00:52:05.860 It's.
00:52:06.860 Actually.
00:52:07.860 A bit.
00:52:08.860 Of.
00:52:09.860 A.
00:52:10.860 Validation.
00:52:11.860 Of.
00:52:12.860 The.
00:52:13.860 Truly.
00:52:14.860 Merit.
00:52:15.860 Based.
00:52:16.860 Element.
00:52:17.860 Of.
00:52:18.860 The.
00:52:19.860 Meritocracy.
00:52:20.860 Because.
00:52:21.860 If.
00:52:22.860 The.
00:52:23.860 To.
00:52:24.860 Make.
00:52:25.860 A.
00:52:26.860 Case.
00:52:27.860 For.
00:52:28.860 That.
00:52:29.860 But.
00:52:30.860 Then.
00:52:31.860 Let's.
00:52:32.860 Say.
00:52:33.860 You.
00:52:34.860 Want.
00:52:35.860 To.
00:52:36.860 Be.
00:52:37.860 Selfish.
00:52:38.860 It's.
00:52:39.860 Like.
00:52:40.860 No.
00:52:41.860 Maybe.
00:52:42.860 You.
00:52:43.860 Want.
00:52:44.860 To.
00:52:45.860 If.
00:52:46.860 You.
00:52:47.860 Could.
00:52:48.860 Determine.
00:52:49.860 That.
00:52:50.860 The.
00:52:51.860 Unequal.
00:52:52.860 Distribution.
00:52:53.860 Of.
00:52:54.860 Resources.
00:52:55.860 Would.
00:52:56.860 Increase.
00:52:57.860 The.
00:52:58.860 Rate.
00:52:59.860 At.
00:53:00.860 Which.
00:53:01.860 Things.
00:53:02.860 Problems.
00:53:03.860 You.
00:53:04.860 Wanted.
00:53:05.860 Solved.
00:53:06.860 Were.
00:53:07.860 Solved.
00:53:08.860 And.
00:53:09.860 You.
00:53:10.860 Might.
00:53:11.860 Think.
00:53:12.860 That.
00:53:13.860 And.
00:53:14.860 Trade.
00:53:15.860 Conscientiousness.
00:53:16.860 Which.
00:53:17.860 Basically.
00:53:18.860 Means.
00:53:19.860 That.
00:53:20.860 The.
00:53:21.860 Best.
00:53:22.860 Predicters.
00:53:23.860 Of.
00:53:24.860 Your.
00:53:25.860 Long-term.
00:53:26.860 Success.
00:53:27.860 Are.
00:53:28.860 How smart.
00:53:29.860 You.
00:53:30.860 Are.
00:53:31.860 How smart.
00:53:32.860 You.
00:53:33.860 Are.
00:53:34.860 How hard.
00:53:35.860 You.
00:53:36.860 Work.
00:53:37.860 No.
00:53:38.860 Word.
00:53:39.860 Of.
00:53:40.860 Lie.
00:53:41.860 Look.
00:53:42.860 It.
00:53:43.860 Up.
00:53:44.860 You.
00:53:45.860 Can.
00:53:46.860 Thank.
00:53:47.860 Daryl.
00:53:48.860 Wings Sue.
00:53:49.860 For.
00:53:50.860 That.
00:53:51.860 Bit.
00:53:52.860 Of.
00:53:53.860 Wisdom.
00:53:54.860 If.
00:53:55.860 You.
00:53:56.860 Wondering.
00:53:57.860 Who.
00:53:58.860 To.
00:53:59.860 Blame.
00:54:00.860 And.
00:54:01.860 You.
00:54:02.860 Should.
00:54:03.860 You.
00:54:04.860 Might.
00:54:05.860 Think.
00:54:06.860 That.
00:54:07.860 Competence.
00:54:08.860 Is.
00:54:09.860 More.
00:54:10.860 Valuable.
00:54:11.860 Than.
00:54:12.860 Material.
00:54:13.860 Wealth.
00:54:14.860 Is.
00:54:15.860 That.
00:54:16.860 A.
00:54:17.860 Possibility.
00:54:18.860 See.
00:54:19.860 I.
00:54:20.860 Been.
00:54:21.860 Trying.
00:54:22.860 To.
00:54:23.860 Figure.
00:54:24.860 Out.
00:54:25.860 What.
00:54:26.860 It.
00:54:27.860 Is.
00:54:28.860 That.
00:54:29.860 A.
00:54:30.860 Hierarchy.
00:54:31.860 A.
00:54:32.860 Human.
00:54:33.860 Hierarchy.
00:54:34.860 Is.
00:54:35.860 Actually.
00:54:36.860 Based.
00:54:37.860 On.
00:54:38.860 Now.
00:54:39.860 The.
00:54:40.860 Reason.
00:54:41.860 That.
00:54:42.860 I.
00:54:43.860 Will.
00:54:44.860 Blind.
00:54:45.860 And.
00:54:46.860 Vengeful.
00:54:47.860 And.
00:54:49.860 And.
00:54:50.860 And.
00:54:51.860 I.
00:54:52.860 I'm.
00:54:53.860 Serious.
00:54:54.860 About.
00:54:55.860 Those.
00:54:56.860 Things.
00:54:57.860 I.
00:54:58.860 Think.
00:54:59.860 Those.
00:55:00.860 Are.
00:55:01.860 All.
00:55:02.860 Justifiable.
00:55:03.860 Claims.
00:55:04.860 Willfully.
00:55:05.860 Blind.
00:55:06.860 Because.
00:55:07.860 We.
00:55:08.860 Know.
00:55:09.860 What.
00:55:10.860 Marxism.
00:55:11.860 Did.
00:55:12.860 In.
00:55:13.860 The.
00:55:14.860 Situation.
00:55:15.860 Like.
00:55:16.860 What.
00:55:17.860 Happened.
00:55:18.860 On.
00:55:19.860 The.
00:55:20.860 Radical.
00:55:21.860 Left.
00:55:22.860 In.
00:55:23.860 The.
00:55:24.860 20th.
00:55:25.860 Century.
00:55:26.860 Because.
00:55:27.860 That.
00:55:28.860 Was.
00:55:29.860 Some.
00:55:30.860 Bloody.
00:55:31.860 Nightmare.
00:55:32.860 That's.
00:55:33.860 For.
00:55:34.860 Sure.
00:55:35.860 So.
00:55:36.860 That's.
00:55:37.860 The.
00:55:38.860 Willfully.
00:55:39.860 Blind.
00:55:40.860 Part.
00:55:41.860 Right.
00:55:42.860 That.
00:55:43.860 The.
00:55:44.860 Bourgeoisie.
00:55:45.860 They.
00:55:46.860 Were.
00:55:47.860 Wealthy.
00:55:48.860 And.
00:55:49.860 The.
00:55:50.860 Only.
00:55:51.860 Reason.
00:55:52.860 The.
00:55:53.860 Right.
00:55:54.860 But.
00:55:55.860 That.
00:55:56.860 Doesn't.
00:55:57.860 Mean.
00:55:58.860 That.
00:55:59.860 All.
00:56:00.860 People.
00:56:01.860 Who.
00:56:02.860 Are.
00:56:03.860 Wealthy.
00:56:04.860 Are.
00:56:05.860 Wealthy.
00:56:06.860 Because.
00:56:07.860 They.
00:56:08.860 Take.
00:56:09.860 Money.
00:56:10.860 What.
00:56:11.860 The.
00:56:12.860 Ideologue.
00:56:13.860 Says.
00:56:14.860 Is.
00:56:15.860 All.
00:56:16.860 And.
00:56:17.860 If.
00:56:18.860 They.
00:56:19.860 Say.
00:56:20.860 All.
00:56:21.860 You.
00:56:22.860 Better.
00:56:23.860 Look.
00:56:24.860 Out.
00:56:25.860 Because.
00:56:26.860 You.
00:56:27.860 Have.
00:56:28.860 More.
00:56:29.860 Than.
00:56:30.860 Some.
00:56:31.860 Other.
00:56:32.860 Person.
00:56:33.860 Has.
00:56:34.860 The.
00:56:35.860 The.
00:56:36.860 The.
00:56:37.860 The.
00:56:38.860 That.
00:56:39.860 Because.
00:56:40.860 Of.
00:56:41.860 Your.
00:56:42.860 Multiple.
00:56:43.860 Group.
00:56:44.860 Identities.
00:56:45.860 I.
00:56:46.860 Can.
00:56:47.860 Find.
00:56:48.860 One.
00:56:49.860 Dimension.
00:56:50.860 Along.
00:56:51.860 One.
00:56:52.860 Dimension.
00:56:53.860 And.
00:56:54.860 Not.
00:56:55.860 Along.
00:56:56.860 Nine.
00:56:57.860 Others.
00:56:58.860 It.
00:56:59.860 Doesn't.
00:57:00.860 Matter.
00:57:01.860 Because.
00:57:02.860 Even.
00:57:03.860 If.
00:57:04.860 You.
00:57:05.860 A.
00:57:06.860 Little.
00:57:07.860 Consequence.
00:57:08.860 Of.
00:57:09.860 The.
00:57:10.860 Pathology.
00:57:11.860 Of.
00:57:12.860 The.
00:57:13.860 Hierarchical.
00:57:14.860 System.
00:57:15.860 But.
00:57:16.860 Many.
00:57:17.860 People.
00:57:18.860 Don't.
00:57:19.860 So.
00:57:20.860 What.
00:57:21.860 Are.
00:57:22.860 The.
00:57:23.860 Other.
00:57:24.860 Pathways.
00:57:25.860 To.
00:57:26.860 Wealth.
00:57:27.860 Well.
00:57:28.860 Intelligence.
00:57:29.860 Conscientiousness.
00:57:30.860 And.
00:57:31.860 So.
00:57:32.860 Intelligence.
00:57:33.860 Would.
00:57:34.860 Be.
00:57:35.860 And.
00:57:36.860 Answer.
00:57:37.860 That.
00:57:38.860 Seems.
00:57:39.860 To be.
00:57:40.860 Yes.
00:57:41.860 Right.
00:57:42.860 Because.
00:57:43.860 Everyone.
00:57:44.860 Has.
00:57:45.860 Problems.
00:57:46.860 And.
00:57:47.860 You.
00:57:48.860 As.
00:57:49.860 As.
00:57:50.860 You.
00:57:51.860 Could.
00:57:52.860 Be.
00:57:53.860 And.
00:57:54.860 Maybe.
00:57:55.860 Even.
00:57:56.860 If.
00:57:57.860 You.
00:57:58.860 And.
00:57:59.860 Maybe.
00:58:00.860 Even.
00:58:01.860 If.
00:58:02.860 You.
00:58:03.860 Doin.
00:58:04.860 Okay.
00:58:05.860 Well.
00:58:06.860 You.
00:58:07.860 Can.
00:58:08.860 See.
00:58:09.860 That.
00:58:10.860 That.
00:58:11.860 So.
00:58:12.860 There.
00:58:13.860 There.
00:58:14.860 No.
00:58:15.860 Shortage.
00:58:16.860 Of.
00:58:17.860 Suffering.
00:58:18.860 And.
00:58:19.860 Malevolence.
00:58:20.860 So.
00:58:21.860 That.
00:58:22.860 Means.
00:58:23.860 We.
00:58:24.860 Actually.
00:58:25.860 Have.
00:58:26.860 Real.
00:58:27.860 Problems.
00:58:28.860 And.
00:58:29.860 The.
00:58:30.860 Reason.
00:58:31.860 I.
00:58:32.860 Making.
00:58:33.860 This.
00:58:34.860 Case.
00:58:35.860 A.
00:58:36.860 One.
00:58:37.860 Of.
00:58:38.860 Because.
00:58:39.860 A.
00:58:40.860 Lot.
00:58:41.860 Of.
00:58:42.860 What.
00:58:43.860 We.
00:58:44.860 Do.
00:58:45.860 Is.
00:58:46.860 Arbitrary.
00:58:47.860 You.
00:58:48.860 Know.
00:58:49.860 You.
00:58:50.860 Could.
00:58:51.860 Be.
00:58:52.860 A.
00:58:53.860 Plumber.
00:58:54.860 To.
00:58:55.860 Go.
00:58:56.860 Through.
00:58:57.860 Life.
00:58:58.860 That.
00:58:59.860 That.
00:59:00.860 That.
00:59:01.860 Doesn't.
00:59:02.860 Mean.
00:59:03.860 That.
00:59:04.860 There.
00:59:05.860 No.
00:59:06.860 It.
00:59:07.860 Doesn't.
00:59:08.860 Mean.
00:59:09.860 That.
00:59:10.860 We.
00:59:11.860 There.
00:59:12.860 Something.
00:59:13.860 Solid.
00:59:14.860 Underneath.
00:59:15.860 That.
00:59:16.860 That.
00:59:17.860 What.
00:59:18.860 What.
00:59:19.860 What.
00:59:20.860 What.
00:59:21.860 Suffering.
00:59:22.860 That.
00:59:23.860 Another.
00:59:24.860 Malevolence.
00:59:25.860 That.
00:59:26.860 Those.
00:59:27.860 Things.
00:59:28.860 Welcome.
00:59:29.860 To.
00:59:30.860 Season.
00:59:31.860 2.
00:59:32.860 Episode.
00:59:33.860 28.
00:59:34.860 Podcast.
00:59:35.860 I'm.
00:59:36.860 Michaela.
00:59:37.860 Peterson.
00:59:38.860 Dad's.
00:59:39.860 Daughter.
00:59:40.860 And.
00:59:41.860 Collaborator.
00:59:42.860 This is a podcast from Westbury New York recorded on September 6th 2018.
00:59:43.860 We're going to get back to interviews as quickly as possible.
00:59:46.860 We're still having some health trickiness.
00:59:48.860 I'm currently in New York.
00:59:50.860 Visiting my dad who has checked himself into rehab to get off of a prescribed anti-anxiety
00:59:56.860 drug that he started taking when mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
01:00:01.860 Turns out it's very difficult to get off of without having physical withdrawal.
01:00:05.860 If this recording doesn't sound ideal, it's because I'm in New York visiting my dad.
01:00:12.860 So, interviews at the moment for the podcast are kind of out of the question.
01:00:17.860 We should be back at it in a couple of months.
01:00:19.860 If you want to hear how my mom is doing and how my dad is doing, please go to my YouTube
01:00:25.860 page or type in Peterson Family Update September 2019 into YouTube.
01:00:31.860 I go into why he's in rehab, how mom is doing.
01:00:36.860 Don't worry, everything's fine, but there's more information on YouTube in that video.
01:00:42.860 We're okay, we just need a bit of time to get back on our feet after all the stress
01:00:47.860 that we had to deal with following mom's diagnosis.
01:00:49.860 I've named this podcast, Risk Being a Fool, a 12 Rules for Life lecture.
01:00:55.860 Going online without ExpressVPN is like not paying attention to the safety demonstration
01:01:00.860 on a flight.
01:01:01.860 Most of the time you'll probably be fine, but what if one day that weird yellow mask drops
01:01:06.860 down from overhead and you have no idea what to do?
01:01:09.860 In our hyper-connected world, your digital privacy isn't just a luxury.
01:01:13.860 It's a fundamental right.
01:01:14.860 Every time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe, hotel, or airport, you're essentially
01:01:19.860 broadcasting your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept
01:01:23.860 it.
01:01:24.860 And let's be clear, it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this.
01:01:27.860 With some off-the-shelf hardware, even a tech-savvy teenager could potentially access
01:01:31.860 your passwords, bank logins, and credit card details.
01:01:34.860 Now, you might think, what's the big deal?
01:01:36.860 Who'd want my data anyway?
01:01:38.860 Well, on the dark web, your personal information could fetch up to $1,000.
01:01:42.860 That's right, there's a whole underground economy built on stolen identities.
01:01:46.860 Enter ExpressVPN.
01:01:47.860 It's like a digital fortress, creating an encrypted tunnel between your device and the
01:01:52.860 internet.
01:01:53.860 Their encryption is so robust that it would take a hacker with a supercomputer over a billion
01:01:57.860 years to crack it.
01:01:58.860 But don't let its power fool you.
01:02:00.860 ExpressVPN is incredibly user-friendly.
01:02:02.860 With just one click, you're protected across all your devices.
01:02:05.860 Phones, laptops, tablets, you name it.
01:02:07.860 That's why I use ExpressVPN whenever I'm traveling or working from a coffee shop.
01:02:11.860 It gives me peace of mind knowing that my research, communications, and personal data
01:02:15.860 are shielded from prying eyes.
01:02:17.860 Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash Jordan.
01:02:22.860 That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash Jordan, and you can get an extra three months free.
01:02:29.860 ExpressVPN dot com slash Jordan.
01:02:35.860 Starting a business can be tough, but thanks to Shopify, running your online storefront is
01:02:39.860 easier than ever.
01:02:40.860 Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business.
01:02:45.860 From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million
01:02:49.860 orders stage, Shopify is here to help you grow.
01:02:52.860 Our marketing team uses Shopify every day to sell our merchandise, and we love how easy
01:02:56.860 it is to add more items, ship products, and track conversions.
01:03:00.860 With Shopify, customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful
01:03:05.860 tools, alongside an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing,
01:03:10.860 accounting, and chatbots.
01:03:11.860 Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout,
01:03:16.860 up to 36% better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms.
01:03:20.860 No matter how big you want to grow, Shopify gives you everything you need to take control
01:03:24.860 and take your business to the next level.
01:03:26.860 Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp, all lowercase.
01:03:32.860 Go to shopify.com slash jbp now to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in.
01:03:37.860 That's shopify.com slash jbp.
01:03:41.860 Well, this is a nice friendly place.
01:03:58.860 It's sort of like the anti-Twitter, I would say.
01:04:03.860 Yeah, so, well, thank you very much for the kind welcome.
01:04:08.860 It's much appreciated.
01:04:09.860 It's surreal to be here, well, it's surreal to be doing all of this.
01:04:15.860 It's surreal to have Dave Rubin introduce Eric Weinstein, the mathematician,
01:04:21.860 so he can come out here and sing a Doors song to you and then play the harmonica.
01:04:25.860 I don't know what universe that makes sense in, but apparently it's this one.
01:04:31.860 So, I don't know what to make of that except it's very amusing
01:04:35.860 and it's very good that things can be amusing from time to time.
01:04:39.860 It's nice to have Dave along to add some levity to the situation in the Q&A as well,
01:04:45.860 because I think that no matter how serious the topics that you're talking about,
01:04:49.860 if you can't maintain a sense of humor about it, then something has gone seriously wrong, right?
01:04:55.860 And I think something's gone seriously wrong, I suppose,
01:04:58.860 to the degree that we are increasingly unable to tolerate comedians.
01:05:02.860 They won't come to speak at campuses, for example,
01:05:06.860 and it's not really a very good thing, even mainstream comedians like Jerry Seinfeld.
01:05:10.860 So, okay, so I use these opportunities, privileges,
01:05:20.860 because it's a privilege to come here and speak to all of you,
01:05:23.860 to further my thinking about whatever it is that I happen to be thinking about.
01:05:29.860 And, you know, Dave was talking about ideas,
01:05:33.860 and there's two things that are sort of relevant when you're talking about ideas.
01:05:38.860 One is, I think, the ideas that you bring forward,
01:05:42.860 but the other is the engagement in the process of generating ideas,
01:05:46.860 and that's actually more important,
01:05:48.860 and I really think that that's what you need to do if you're speaking with people.
01:05:52.860 I mean, you do that in a conversation.
01:05:54.860 You don't want to just trot out the same old things you've been thinking about for the last ten years, you know?
01:06:00.860 There's something stale and dead about that.
01:06:03.860 You want to be pushing the envelope with what you think.
01:06:07.860 And that's a good hint, if you want to speak publicly,
01:06:09.860 or if you want to speak in a manner that's interesting,
01:06:11.860 is you have to take a bit of a risk, you know?
01:06:13.860 Otherwise, you fall back on your notes, and then you're like your own tape recorder.
01:06:17.860 Or, it gets even worse, you might become your own parody, you know?
01:06:20.860 Because you keep imitating your past successes, or your past lack of failure,
01:06:25.860 which is even a worse thing to imitate.
01:06:28.860 It's better to take a risk.
01:06:30.860 And then that's kind of exciting, because, well, it's exciting to be the speaker,
01:06:34.860 because you don't know what the hell is going to happen,
01:06:36.860 because I never know backstage.
01:06:38.860 I don't even really know what I'm going to talk about when I come out.
01:06:41.860 Like, you know, I sit back in the dressing room for 45 minutes,
01:06:44.860 and I think about what it is that I'm thinking about,
01:06:47.860 and I have some sense of the direction that I want to go in,
01:06:49.860 but I don't know exactly how it's going to go when I come out on stage.
01:06:54.860 And so, that gives me some rather anxiety-provoking moments.
01:06:58.860 I usually have at least one small panic attack before I come on stage.
01:07:02.860 They don't last that long, but they're there.
01:07:04.860 But, I don't think you can do anything worthwhile without risk.
01:07:09.860 And I can bloody well tell you that you can't think without risk.
01:07:12.860 That's for sure, because if you're thinking without risk,
01:07:15.860 then you're not thinking about anything important.
01:07:17.860 And if you're not thinking about anything important,
01:07:19.860 well, the first issue is, well, why the hell bother then?
01:07:21.860 Why bother thinking?
01:07:23.860 And second, you're not thinking if you're not thinking about something important.
01:07:26.860 And if it's going to be important, it's going to be contentious.
01:07:29.860 And you know, that's part of the reason why free speech is so important,
01:07:32.860 because you have to be able to stumble around blindly like an idiot
01:07:36.860 while you're trying to figure out difficult things,
01:07:38.860 because otherwise you'll never get a chance to figure them out.
01:07:40.860 Because you're not going to bloody well get it right the first time, that's for sure.
01:07:44.860 And so there's a lot of idiocy on the way to wisdom.
01:07:47.860 And you have to be, you have to understand that,
01:07:50.860 if you're going to allow your society to proceed with any degree of certainty.
01:07:55.860 You have to flail about, you know.
01:07:57.860 I was writing the other day.
01:07:59.860 I've been writing the second volume, I suppose, of Twelve Rules for Life,
01:08:04.860 which is provisionally called Twelve More Rules for Life.
01:08:07.860 It took a long time to come up with that one, I'll tell you.
01:08:12.860 And in the first chapter, I have an image at the beginning of each chapter.
01:08:18.860 And the image that I chose, the first image I chose was a yin-yang symbol,
01:08:22.860 but I dispensed with that.
01:08:24.860 The second image I chose was the Fool card from the tarot.
01:08:28.860 It's a really interesting card.
01:08:30.860 And it shows this kind of prince looking like guy, young guy.
01:08:34.860 He's looking up in the clouds and he's got a little dog with him.
01:08:37.860 Sun is shining behind him and he's about to step off a cliff.
01:08:40.860 And it's a very, and it's the Fool.
01:08:43.860 It's a very paradoxical image because he's a good-looking kid
01:08:46.860 and he looks like he knows what he's doing and the day is bright
01:08:50.860 and so that signifies consciousness and yet he's willing to step off the cliff.
01:08:55.860 And so he's the Fool.
01:08:57.860 And the Fool is a complicated image, you know.
01:09:01.860 The Fool is the court jester who tells the truth even to the king
01:09:04.860 because he's beneath contempt, right.
01:09:06.860 So sometimes the jester is the only person that can tell the truth
01:09:09.860 because he's beneath contempt.
01:09:10.860 And that's actually the role that comedians play
01:09:12.860 is they can say what everyone else is thinking.
01:09:15.860 And that's why we laugh, you know.
01:09:17.860 Because a good comedian says something that you think
01:09:19.860 but you'd never say.
01:09:20.860 And the comedian says it and you go,
01:09:22.860 yeah, we all think that.
01:09:24.860 And so, and if you can tolerate that,
01:09:26.860 well then you have a reasonably free society, right.
01:09:28.860 If you can tolerate people who poke at you,
01:09:30.860 especially if you have a position of power.
01:09:32.860 And so, Carl Jung regarded the Fool as the precursor to the Savior.
01:09:38.860 It was a really strange idea, right.
01:09:41.860 One of his paradoxical ideas.
01:09:43.860 And the reason is that you can't advance unless you're willing to make a fool of yourself.
01:09:47.860 Because in order to advance you have to transform yourself into a beginner, right.
01:09:51.860 Because you have to do something new in order to advance.
01:09:53.860 And if it's new then you're not good at it.
01:09:55.860 And if you're not good at it then you have to do it badly.
01:09:57.860 And if you're going to do it badly, well then you're going to be a bit of a fool.
01:10:01.860 But if you're not willing to do things badly and be a bit of a fool then you don't get any better.
01:10:05.860 And so, unless you're willing to be a fool then you can't be redeemed.
01:10:09.860 So, that's a good thing to know whenever you're thinking about
01:10:14.860 how foolish you're going to look when you try something new.
01:10:17.860 It's like, well, you want to try something new.
01:10:19.860 Because what there is of you right now isn't enough.
01:10:22.860 Unless your life is perfect.
01:10:24.860 And that's very unlikely.
01:10:26.860 Unless the life of people around you that you love is perfect.
01:10:29.860 You're not everything you could be.
01:10:31.860 And maybe you're not everything you should be.
01:10:33.860 And so you have to be something new.
01:10:34.860 And if you're going to be something new then you have to risk being a fool.
01:10:37.860 And then maybe that will move you to the next stage.
01:10:40.860 And so that's that perverse meeting of opposites, you know.
01:10:45.860 So, I'm willing to come out on stage and risk being a fool.
01:10:50.860 I suppose because at least to some degree in principle that's the pathway to wisdom.
01:10:55.860 And it's better to come out and see if you can discover some new truths.
01:10:59.860 Rather than just reiterate truths you think you already know.
01:11:02.860 I don't know if ever if you're reiterating truth that you already know.
01:11:05.860 I don't ever know if that's actually true.
01:11:07.860 You know what I mean?
01:11:08.860 Because the state...
01:11:10.860 Whatever truth is, is very difficult to get your hands on it.
01:11:14.860 Are your hands on it?
01:11:15.860 Are your hands on it?
01:11:16.860 It's not like...
01:11:17.860 It's not like you can just write down the truth in a list and have the list be permanent.
01:11:21.860 There's something alive about it and vital.
01:11:23.860 And so it has to be delivered in a...
01:11:26.860 I don't know what it is.
01:11:27.860 It has to be delivered in a new fashion.
01:11:29.860 I think it's something akin to riding the line between chaos and order.
01:11:32.860 Which is why I used the yin and yang symbol as well in that chapter.
01:11:35.860 That was the first image, you know.
01:11:36.860 Because if you're in the right place at the right time doing the right thing.
01:11:39.860 Then you kind of have one foot where you're secure and you know what you're doing.
01:11:43.860 And you have the other foot where you don't know what you're doing.
01:11:45.860 And that's pushing you to develop.
01:11:47.860 And there's something about that that embodies the truth.
01:11:50.860 Even though it's not a final truth.
01:11:51.860 It's more like a truth of process.
01:11:53.860 And I think the deepest truth is actually a truth of process.
01:11:57.860 Like it's the truth that you engage in when you sit down with someone that you love.
01:12:01.860 And you have a difficult discussion about something important.
01:12:03.860 When you're actually trying to solve a problem.
01:12:05.860 So that you can make things better.
01:12:07.860 You know.
01:12:08.860 Now you have.
01:12:09.860 Now and then you have a discussion like that.
01:12:10.860 And those aren't easy discussions.
01:12:11.860 Generally.
01:12:12.860 Because.
01:12:13.860 Well first of all.
01:12:14.860 You have to admit that you have a problem.
01:12:15.860 And then you have to formulate the problem.
01:12:16.860 Then you have to agree on the problem.
01:12:17.860 Then you have to both actually want to work towards the solution.
01:12:20.860 Even if you're at odds with one another.
01:12:22.860 Right.
01:12:23.860 You have to.
01:12:24.860 And I've seen this.
01:12:25.860 I mean this is where many marriages fail unfortunately.
01:12:27.860 Because people aren't able to sit down.
01:12:29.860 And say what they think.
01:12:31.860 And risk the terrible conflict.
01:12:34.860 That goes along with actually.
01:12:36.860 Saying who it is that you are.
01:12:37.860 And what you want.
01:12:38.860 You know.
01:12:39.860 But.
01:12:40.860 But that's where you find the truth.
01:12:42.860 By doing that.
01:12:43.860 And then.
01:12:44.860 And then maybe you can stay where that is.
01:12:46.860 And that's.
01:12:47.860 And that's where you should be.
01:12:48.860 And maybe that's what.
01:12:50.860 Maybe that's what keeps you going through life.
01:12:52.860 And keeps everyone going.
01:12:53.860 It's something like that.
01:12:55.860 Now.
01:12:56.860 I was thinking backstage.
01:12:57.860 I was thinking.
01:12:58.860 What the hell am I doing.
01:12:59.860 I've been wondering that a lot.
01:13:00.860 You know.
01:13:01.860 I tell you.
01:13:02.860 I've been wondering that an awful lot.
01:13:03.860 Because I can't really figure it out.
01:13:04.860 I can't figure out.
01:13:05.860 Well.
01:13:06.860 There's many many things I can't figure out.
01:13:08.860 But I can't figure out.
01:13:09.860 For example.
01:13:10.860 Exactly.
01:13:11.860 Why.
01:13:12.860 The book I wrote.
01:13:13.860 Has become so popular.
01:13:14.860 And I can't figure out.
01:13:15.860 Why.
01:13:16.860 So many people are coming out.
01:13:17.860 To listen to me speak.
01:13:18.860 Like.
01:13:19.860 I think part of it.
01:13:20.860 You know.
01:13:21.860 I've been trying to take this part.
01:13:22.860 Very carefully.
01:13:23.860 To get it right.
01:13:24.860 And I think part of it is.
01:13:25.860 A mere consequence of technology.
01:13:27.860 Not that there's anything mere about that.
01:13:29.860 Because.
01:13:30.860 Technology is.
01:13:31.860 An unbelievably.
01:13:32.860 I mean.
01:13:33.860 It doesn't need to be said.
01:13:34.860 It's an unbelievably powerful force.
01:13:35.860 And it's not like.
01:13:36.860 We've exactly got it mastered.
01:13:37.860 We've developed all these new technologies.
01:13:39.860 In the last five years.
01:13:40.860 Thereabouts.
01:13:41.860 And we have no idea.
01:13:42.860 How they work.
01:13:43.860 Or what they're doing.
01:13:44.860 Or what their implications are.
01:13:45.860 You know.
01:13:46.860 We launch these things on us.
01:13:48.860 Like we're.
01:13:49.860 Like we're laboratory guinea pigs.
01:13:51.860 Or laboratory rats.
01:13:52.860 And we try these massive.
01:13:53.860 Large scale.
01:13:54.860 Social experiments.
01:13:55.860 We have no idea.
01:13:56.860 Where they're heading.
01:13:57.860 You know.
01:13:58.860 We have Twitter.
01:13:59.860 And Facebook.
01:14:00.860 And Google.
01:14:01.860 And.
01:14:02.860 Well.
01:14:03.860 And YouTube.
01:14:04.860 And podcasts.
01:14:05.860 I mean.
01:14:06.860 YouTube itself.
01:14:07.860 Is.
01:14:08.860 An absolutely staggering revolution.
01:14:09.860 It took about.
01:14:10.860 Three years.
01:14:11.860 Of playing with YouTube.
01:14:12.860 Before I figured out.
01:14:13.860 That.
01:14:14.860 There was something.
01:14:15.860 Absolutely fundamental.
01:14:16.860 Shifted.
01:14:17.860 As a consequence of it.
01:14:18.860 Eventually figured it out.
01:14:19.860 It was that.
01:14:20.860 YouTube.
01:14:21.860 Allows the spoken word.
01:14:22.860 To have the same reach.
01:14:23.860 And permanence.
01:14:24.860 As the written word.
01:14:25.860 But.
01:14:26.860 Cheaper access.
01:14:27.860 Faster publication.
01:14:28.860 It's like.
01:14:29.860 It's bigger than books.
01:14:30.860 That's.
01:14:31.860 That actually turns out.
01:14:32.860 To be something.
01:14:33.860 Pretty damn.
01:14:34.860 Terrified.
01:14:35.860 That's the right word.
01:14:36.860 For that.
01:14:37.860 And then.
01:14:38.860 Podcasts.
01:14:39.860 Maybe.
01:14:40.860 Maybe.
01:14:41.860 Maybe.
01:14:42.860 There are YouTube.
01:14:43.860 On steroids.
01:14:44.860 And then.
01:14:45.860 The market.
01:14:46.860 Is absolutely.
01:14:47.860 Huge.
01:14:48.860 You know.
01:14:49.860 Rogan.
01:14:50.860 From.
01:14:51.860 From what I've been able.
01:14:52.860 To glean.
01:14:53.860 From my conversations.
01:14:54.860 With him.
01:14:55.860 He gets.
01:14:56.860 A hundred and fifty million.
01:14:57.860 Downloads a month.
01:14:58.860 Right.
01:14:59.860 In the most.
01:15:00.860 Powerful interviewer.
01:15:01.860 Who's ever lived.
01:15:02.860 He's certainly.
01:15:03.860 Up in the top.
01:15:04.860 Two or three.
01:15:05.860 And so.
01:15:06.860 I don't know.
01:15:07.860 Even.
01:15:08.860 I don't know.
01:15:09.860 How to.
01:15:10.860 Understand.
01:15:11.860 Quantities.
01:15:12.860 Like that.
01:15:13.860 I don't know.
01:15:14.860 What that means.
01:15:15.860 I think it means.
01:15:16.860 That.
01:15:17.860 More people.
01:15:18.860 Can listen.
01:15:19.860 Than can read.
01:15:20.860 So.
01:15:21.860 Which is.
01:15:22.860 Highly probable.
01:15:23.860 Right.
01:15:24.860 Because reading.
01:15:25.860 Is a minority taste.
01:15:26.860 Very few people.
01:15:27.860 Read.
01:15:28.860 Listen to a podcast.
01:15:29.860 When you're doing.
01:15:30.860 Other things.
01:15:31.860 Like driving.
01:15:32.860 Or doing the dishes.
01:15:33.860 Or exercising.
01:15:34.860 Or whatever.
01:15:35.860 Whatever it might be.
01:15:36.860 And so.
01:15:37.860 Not only.
01:15:38.860 Is the technology.
01:15:39.860 More accessible.
01:15:40.860 And very low cost.
01:15:41.860 And with.
01:15:42.860 Infinite bandwidth.
01:15:43.860 But it seems.
01:15:44.860 To have brought.
01:15:45.860 The possibility.
01:15:46.860 Of engaging.
01:15:47.860 Deeply.
01:15:48.860 With ideas.
01:15:49.860 To a much.
01:15:50.860 Much.
01:15:51.860 Broader audience.
01:15:52.860 And so.
01:15:53.860 God only knows.
01:15:54.860 How.
01:15:55.860 Much.
01:15:56.860 Of a revolution.
01:15:57.860 On.
01:15:58.860 The relationship.
01:15:59.860 Between facts.
01:16:00.860 And values.
01:16:01.860 It's like.
01:16:02.860 Oh.
01:16:03.860 There's a big seller.
01:16:04.860 It's like.
01:16:05.860 Line up for that.
01:16:06.860 Folks.
01:16:07.860 Two and a half.
01:16:08.860 Hours.
01:16:09.860 Of discussion.
01:16:10.860 About the relationship.
01:16:11.860 Between facts.
01:16:12.860 And values.
01:16:13.860 It's like.
01:16:14.860 How the whole audience.
01:16:15.860 Was basically.
01:16:16.860 Silent.
01:16:17.860 God.
01:16:18.860 And you know.
01:16:19.860 It's like.
01:16:20.860 Wow.
01:16:21.860 People are a lot smarter.
01:16:22.860 Than we thought.
01:16:23.860 They were.
01:16:24.860 You know.
01:16:25.860 I mean.
01:16:26.860 Collectively.
01:16:27.860 It looks like.
01:16:28.860 We're smarter.
01:16:29.860 Than we thought.
01:16:30.860 Were capable.
01:16:31.860 Of thinking.
01:16:32.860 About deeper things.
01:16:33.860 Than.
01:16:34.860 We imagined.
01:16:35.860 Something.
01:16:36.860 You can't do.
01:16:37.860 With TV.
01:16:38.860 And maybe.
01:16:39.860 You couldn't do.
01:16:40.860 With radio.
01:16:41.860 Either.
01:16:42.860 And that people.
01:16:43.860 Are interested.
01:16:44.860 In serious ideas.
01:16:45.860 What's happening.
01:16:46.860 Here.
01:16:47.860 Why you're here.
01:16:48.860 Is.
01:16:49.860 In part.
01:16:50.860 A consequence.
01:16:51.860 Of.
01:16:52.860 That technological.
01:16:53.860 Revolution.
01:16:54.860 That's bringing.
01:16:55.860 The possibility.
01:16:56.860 Of.
01:16:57.860 Long form.
01:16:58.860 Complex.
01:16:59.860 Sophisticated.
01:17:00.860 Philosophical.
01:17:01.860 Dialogue.
01:17:02.860 To.
01:17:03.860 A very.
01:17:04.860 Very large.
01:17:05.860 Number of people.
01:17:06.860 And there's a market.
01:17:07.860 So.
01:17:08.860 And I happened.
01:17:09.860 Fortunately.
01:17:10.860 Enough.
01:17:11.860 I think.
01:17:12.860 Along with.
01:17:13.860 The other.
01:17:14.860 Personalities.
01:17:15.860 Within that group.
01:17:16.860 It's a very strange group.
01:17:17.860 It's like a herd.
01:17:18.860 Of cats.
01:17:19.860 Or something like that.
01:17:20.860 Not.
01:17:21.860 Not.
01:17:22.860 Exactly.
01:17:23.860 Cohesive.
01:17:24.860 But I think.
01:17:25.860 That.
01:17:26.860 Two things.
01:17:27.860 Maybe three.
01:17:28.860 Constitute.
01:17:29.860 The.
01:17:30.860 The nexus.
01:17:31.860 The union.
01:17:32.860 One is.
01:17:33.860 Early adopter.
01:17:34.860 Of this new technology.
01:17:35.860 That's a.
01:17:36.860 So that's.
01:17:37.860 Being in the right place.
01:17:38.860 At the right time.
01:17:39.860 The second is.
01:17:40.860 Independent platform.
01:17:41.860 Right.
01:17:42.860 So none of us.
01:17:43.860 Support.
01:17:44.860 Financial.
01:17:45.860 And otherwise.
01:17:46.860 That enable us.
01:17:47.860 To establish.
01:17:48.860 A certain amount.
01:17:49.860 Of autonomy.
01:17:50.860 And then.
01:17:51.860 I would say.
01:17:52.860 The final thing.
01:17:53.860 Probably is.
01:17:54.860 Maybe there's.
01:17:55.860 Two things.
01:17:56.860 One is.
01:17:57.860 The desire.
01:17:58.860 To pursue.
01:17:59.860 Truth.
01:18:00.860 In conversation.
01:18:01.860 Rather than.
01:18:02.860 To merely state.
01:18:03.860 What the truths are.
01:18:04.860 And.
01:18:05.860 The final thing.
01:18:06.860 Might be.
01:18:07.860 Belief.
01:18:08.860 To.
01:18:09.860 To the audiences.
01:18:10.860 I've talked to.
01:18:11.860 Students.
01:18:12.860 Or otherwise.
01:18:13.860 I always presumed.
01:18:14.860 That.
01:18:15.860 I could think.
01:18:16.860 As hard.
01:18:17.860 As I possibly could.
01:18:18.860 In real time.
01:18:19.860 And.
01:18:20.860 People would follow.
01:18:21.860 Follow along.
01:18:22.860 You know.
01:18:23.860 I'm only always.
01:18:24.860 Trying to talk about.
01:18:25.860 Things that matter.
01:18:26.860 Because why the hell bother.
01:18:27.860 Talking about something else.
01:18:28.860 It's like.
01:18:29.860 So.
01:18:30.860 And.
01:18:31.860 So.
01:18:32.860 Well.
01:18:33.860 This.
01:18:34.860 I thought.
01:18:35.860 What I would do.
01:18:36.860 Today.
01:18:37.860 I've been.
01:18:38.860 Puzzling away.
01:18:39.860 On something.
01:18:40.860 For a very long time.
01:18:41.860 And.
01:18:42.860 I've.
01:18:43.860 Got a little farther.
01:18:44.860 On it.
01:18:45.860 I would say.
01:18:46.860 In recent.
01:18:47.860 Months.
01:18:48.860 Partly.
01:18:49.860 As a consequence.
01:18:50.860 Of having to.
01:18:51.860 Having to.
01:18:52.860 Speak to Sam Harris.
01:18:53.860 For eight hours.
01:18:54.860 Because Sam is.
01:18:55.860 Well.
01:18:56.860 You know.
01:18:57.860 I mean.
01:18:58.860 It's not so bad.
01:18:59.860 To put yourself.
01:19:00.860 In a situation.
01:19:01.860 Where you're.
01:19:02.860 In you.
01:19:03.860 At least.
01:19:04.860 In principle.
01:19:05.860 And so.
01:19:06.860 If you put yourself.
01:19:07.860 In a difficult situation.
01:19:08.860 Not too difficult.
01:19:09.860 Hopefully.
01:19:10.860 Then.
01:19:11.860 Maybe you can rise.
01:19:12.860 To meet the challenge.
01:19:13.860 And.
01:19:14.860 You know.
01:19:15.860 Sam's a pretty.
01:19:16.860 Articulate.
01:19:17.860 Defender.
01:19:18.860 Of the.
01:19:19.860 Rationalist.
01:19:20.860 Atheist.
01:19:21.860 Perspective.
01:19:22.860 And.
01:19:23.860 I happen to think.
01:19:25.860 That that's an easier.
01:19:26.860 Position to argue.
01:19:27.860 Than the position.
01:19:28.860 That I've taken.
01:19:29.860 By the way.
01:19:30.860 But.
01:19:31.860 Things more deeply.
01:19:32.860 Than I had thought.
01:19:33.860 Through them.
01:19:34.860 Before.
01:19:35.860 And so.
01:19:36.860 And so.
01:19:37.860 That process.
01:19:38.860 Is continued.
01:19:39.860 So.
01:19:40.860 I'm going to use.
01:19:41.860 Rule one.
01:19:42.860 Mostly.
01:19:43.860 Tonight.
01:19:44.860 As the basis.
01:19:45.860 For this inquiry.
01:19:46.860 And so.
01:19:47.860 Rule one.
01:19:48.860 Is stand up.
01:19:49.860 Straight.
01:19:50.860 With your shoulders.
01:19:51.860 Back.
01:19:52.860 One.
01:19:53.860 The structure.
01:19:54.860 Of hierarchy.
01:19:55.860 The existence.
01:19:56.860 Of hierarchy.
01:19:57.860 And then.
01:19:58.860 It's relationship.
01:19:59.860 To individual.
01:20:00.860 Into the individual.
01:20:01.860 Into individual.
01:20:02.860 Perception.
01:20:03.860 And ethical action.
01:20:04.860 It's something.
01:20:05.860 Like that.
01:20:06.860 And.
01:20:07.860 It's such a complicated.
01:20:09.860 That's such a complicated.
01:20:11.860 Arrangement.
01:20:12.860 Of topics.
01:20:13.860 When I'm thinking about it.
01:20:14.860 Often get lost.
01:20:15.860 Because it spreads out.
01:20:16.860 To take in everything.
01:20:17.860 And then you can't.
01:20:18.860 Think about it properly.
01:20:19.860 You gotta narrow it.
01:20:20.860 And so.
01:20:21.860 The other thing.
01:20:22.860 That I'm trying to understand.
01:20:23.860 The relationship.
01:20:24.860 Between the hierarchy.
01:20:25.860 And the individual.
01:20:26.860 Structures.
01:20:27.860 Human perception.
01:20:28.860 And that's actually.
01:20:29.860 At the core.
01:20:30.860 Of the argument.
01:20:31.860 That I've been having.
01:20:32.860 With Sam.
01:20:33.860 Because.
01:20:34.860 Harris presumes.
01:20:35.860 That.
01:20:36.860 There's a world of facts.
01:20:37.860 And that you can perceive them.
01:20:38.860 And then you can derive.
01:20:39.860 The world of values.
01:20:40.860 Directly.
01:20:41.860 From the world of facts.
01:20:42.860 And I understand.
01:20:43.860 Why he's doing that.
01:20:44.860 He wants to do that.
01:20:45.860 Because.
01:20:46.860 He's not.
01:20:47.860 He's sick and tired.
01:20:48.860 Of moral relativism.
01:20:49.860 He's got a strong.
01:20:50.860 Intuition.
01:20:51.860 That there's something wrong.
01:20:52.860 The nihilism.
01:20:53.860 That it produces.
01:20:54.860 I think.
01:20:55.860 Is evidence.
01:20:56.860 At least.
01:20:57.860 Psychological evidence.
01:20:58.860 For the falsity.
01:20:59.860 Of it's.
01:21:00.860 Position.
01:21:01.860 Because.
01:21:02.860 I believe.
01:21:03.860 That.
01:21:04.860 A philosophy.
01:21:05.860 That makes.
01:21:06.860 People.
01:21:07.860 Mentally.
01:21:08.860 Ill.
01:21:09.860 Is probably.
01:21:10.860 Wrong.
01:21:11.860 And so.
01:21:12.860 Well.
01:21:13.860 It might not be.
01:21:14.860 You know.
01:21:15.860 Because.
01:21:16.860 If you believe.
01:21:17.860 Purely.
01:21:18.860 An objective.
01:21:19.860 Truth.
01:21:20.860 Right.
01:21:21.860 A shortage.
01:21:22.860 Of harsh.
01:21:23.860 Objective.
01:21:24.860 Truths.
01:21:25.860 So.
01:21:26.860 You know.
01:21:27.860 Nietzsche said.
01:21:28.860 At one point.
01:21:29.860 That you could tell.
01:21:30.860 The character.
01:21:31.860 Of a human being.
01:21:32.860 By how much.
01:21:33.860 Truth.
01:21:34.860 He or she.
01:21:35.860 Could tolerate.
01:21:36.860 Right.
01:21:37.860 Which is.
01:21:38.860 Well.
01:21:39.860 That's something.
01:21:40.860 To come along.
01:21:41.860 And sock you.
01:21:42.860 A good one.
01:21:43.860 You know.
01:21:44.860 It's.
01:21:45.860 Now and then.
01:21:46.860 You're lucky.
01:21:47.860 And you learn a truth.
01:21:48.860 That's comfortable.
01:21:49.860 But.
01:21:50.860 That doesn't happen.
01:21:51.860 Very often.
01:21:52.860 So.
01:21:53.860 All right.
01:21:54.860 So.
01:21:55.860 What I've been.
01:21:56.860 See.
01:21:57.860 To the world.
01:21:58.860 Of facts.
01:21:59.860 To the world.
01:22:00.860 Of values.
01:22:01.860 Without intermediation.
01:22:02.860 Is true.
01:22:03.860 I don't think.
01:22:04.860 You'd need.
01:22:05.860 To have a brain.
01:22:06.860 If that was true.
01:22:07.860 I think.
01:22:08.860 The world.
01:22:09.860 Would just tell you.
01:22:10.860 What to do.
01:22:11.860 And I mean.
01:22:12.860 With your senses.
01:22:13.860 And like.
01:22:14.860 You do that.
01:22:15.860 Real easily.
01:22:16.860 You just look at the world.
01:22:17.860 And bang.
01:22:18.860 There it is.
01:22:19.860 It seems like.
01:22:20.860 It's straightforward.
01:22:21.860 It is not straightforward.
01:22:22.860 We don't know.
01:22:23.860 How human beings.
01:22:24.860 Perceive the world.
01:22:25.860 It seems impossible.
01:22:26.860 Because there's.
01:22:27.860 So many ways.
01:22:28.860 That you can perceive.
01:22:29.860 The world.
01:22:30.860 It's not obvious.
01:22:31.860 At all.
01:22:32.860 How we can settle.
01:22:33.860 On the one.
01:22:34.860 That we use.
01:22:35.860 At any given moment.
01:22:36.860 You know.
01:22:37.860 Like.
01:22:38.860 If you were an artist.
01:22:39.860 Think about it this way.
01:22:40.860 Make a painting of it.
01:22:41.860 And you think.
01:22:42.860 Well that's easy.
01:22:43.860 You painted white.
01:22:44.860 And black.
01:22:45.860 It's like.
01:22:46.860 No you don't.
01:22:47.860 Because it's not white and black.
01:22:48.860 And like.
01:22:49.860 I have a friend.
01:22:50.860 Who's an artist.
01:22:51.860 And.
01:22:52.860 He actually painted a picture.
01:22:53.860 Of a stage.
01:22:54.860 Like this.
01:22:55.860 There was a bunch of.
01:22:56.860 Actors and actresses on it.
01:22:57.860 And.
01:22:58.860 It was lit.
01:22:59.860 In multiple ways.
01:23:00.860 Like this stage is lit.
01:23:01.860 You know.
01:23:02.860 And he painted all the shadows.
01:23:03.860 And I.
01:23:04.860 Here.
01:23:05.860 For example.
01:23:06.860 Up here.
01:23:07.860 I can see.
01:23:08.860 Fuse of.
01:23:09.860 Maybe.
01:23:10.860 Gray.
01:23:11.860 But it's not even gray.
01:23:12.860 It's complicated colors.
01:23:13.860 And kind of an infinite number.
01:23:14.860 Of complicated colors.
01:23:15.860 And.
01:23:16.860 Every surface around you.
01:23:17.860 Is so complicated.
01:23:18.860 That.
01:23:19.860 Well.
01:23:20.860 That.
01:23:21.860 You can sum it up.
01:23:22.860 By saying.
01:23:23.860 Well it's black and white.
01:23:24.860 But if you paint that.
01:23:25.860 That isn't going to work.
01:23:26.860 It's just going to look like.
01:23:27.860 You don't know what you're doing.
01:23:28.860 And that's because.
01:23:29.860 You don't know what you're doing.
01:23:30.860 That's why.
01:23:31.860 You know.
01:23:32.860 I think.
01:23:33.860 I think that.
01:23:34.860 This is reflected.
01:23:35.860 Sometimes.
01:23:36.860 For people.
01:23:37.860 In psychedelic experience.
01:23:38.860 You know.
01:23:39.860 Because in psychedelic experience.
01:23:40.860 People get lost.
01:23:41.860 In the detail.
01:23:42.860 Right.
01:23:43.860 They lose their ability.
01:23:44.860 To see.
01:23:45.860 The vague.
01:23:46.860 Generalities.
01:23:47.860 That they normally perceive.
01:23:48.860 And they start to see.
01:23:49.860 How complicated.
01:23:50.860 Things actually are.
01:23:51.860 And they get.
01:23:52.860 Absolutely.
01:23:53.860 Lost in it.
01:23:54.860 Which is probably.
01:23:55.860 Why we don't function.
01:23:56.860 Like that.
01:23:57.860 All the time.
01:23:58.860 That can die.
01:23:59.860 Right.
01:24:00.860 You're not.
01:24:01.860 Well.
01:24:02.860 You're not going to be able.
01:24:03.860 To focus on.
01:24:04.860 The one thing.
01:24:05.860 You need to focus on.
01:24:06.860 To survive.
01:24:07.860 Or the two things.
01:24:08.860 Or the ten things.
01:24:09.860 And ignore.
01:24:10.860 Everything around you.
01:24:11.860 That's.
01:24:12.860 Complex.
01:24:13.860 Beyond comprehension.
01:24:14.860 Right.
01:24:15.860 So partly.
01:24:16.860 What you're doing.
01:24:17.860 When you're perceiving.
01:24:18.860 The world.
01:24:19.860 Is you're filtering it.
01:24:20.860 Like mad.
01:24:21.860 Right.
01:24:22.860 And you know that.
01:24:23.860 If you just.
01:24:24.860 Have to think about it.
01:24:25.860 A little bit.
01:24:26.860 You know that.
01:24:27.860 If it replaced you.
01:24:28.860 With a cartoon.
01:24:29.860 That would actually.
01:24:30.860 Work pretty well.
01:24:31.860 And you know that.
01:24:32.860 Because if you.
01:24:33.860 Watch cartoons on TV.
01:24:34.860 Like the Simpsons.
01:24:35.860 That works.
01:24:36.860 And they're clearly.
01:24:37.860 Two dimensional.
01:24:38.860 And flat.
01:24:39.860 Right.
01:24:40.860 Highly.
01:24:41.860 Highly simplified.
01:24:42.860 But.
01:24:43.860 If you watch.
01:24:44.860 A complex story.
01:24:45.860 Played out.
01:24:46.860 By highly simplified.
01:24:47.860 Cartoon characters.
01:24:48.860 You don't care.
01:24:49.860 Right.
01:24:50.860 Doesn't matter at all.
01:24:51.860 It's just.
01:24:52.860 You think about.
01:24:53.860 South Park.
01:24:54.860 In the animation.
01:24:55.860 Matter at all.
01:24:56.860 As long as the stories.
01:24:57.860 Acceptable.
01:24:58.860 And that's a good indication.
01:24:59.860 Of how little.
01:25:00.860 You need to perceive.
01:25:01.860 In order to actually.
01:25:02.860 Operate functionally.
01:25:03.860 In the world.
01:25:04.860 And what you see.
01:25:05.860 Of the world.
01:25:06.860 When you're perceiving.
01:25:07.860 It normally.
01:25:08.860 Is something like.
01:25:09.860 A cartoon.
01:25:10.860 It's a low resolution.
01:25:11.860 Representation.
01:25:12.860 Of a very high resolution.
01:25:13.860 Background.
01:25:14.860 And maybe.
01:25:15.860 I've always.
01:25:16.860 I've been trying.
01:25:17.860 To figure out.
01:25:18.860 What.
01:25:19.860 How it is.
01:25:20.860 How low.
01:25:21.860 A resolution.
01:25:22.860 You can get away with.
01:25:23.860 And it's something like.
01:25:24.860 You don't want to.
01:25:25.860 Perceive anything.
01:25:26.860 To be more complicated.
01:25:27.860 Than you need to.
01:25:28.860 In order to use it.
01:25:29.860 As a tool.
01:25:30.860 Or avoid it.
01:25:31.860 As an obstacle.
01:25:32.860 It's something like that.
01:25:33.860 So there's a functional.
01:25:34.860 Element to it.
01:25:35.860 You know.
01:25:36.860 We tend to think.
01:25:37.860 We see objects.
01:25:38.860 In the world.
01:25:39.860 Factual objects.
01:25:40.860 And then we.
01:25:41.860 We assume.
01:25:42.860 What.
01:25:43.860 We think about.
01:25:44.860 What they are.
01:25:45.860 The world.
01:25:46.860 At all.
01:25:47.860 That is not.
01:25:48.860 How your brain.
01:25:49.860 Is set up.
01:25:50.860 So you perceive.
01:25:51.860 Function.
01:25:52.860 You look at.
01:25:53.860 You look.
01:25:54.860 For tools.
01:25:55.860 And obstacles.
01:25:56.860 That's actually.
01:25:57.860 What you see.
01:25:58.860 In the world.
01:25:59.860 And so.
01:26:00.860 There's some.
01:26:01.860 Mechanism.
01:26:02.860 That you use.
01:26:03.860 To simplify.
01:26:04.860 The world.
01:26:05.860 Down to those.
01:26:06.860 Things that you.
01:26:07.860 Should focus on.
01:26:08.860 And those.
01:26:09.860 Things that you should.
01:26:10.860 Ignore.
01:26:11.860 Now.
01:26:12.860 This is subtle.
01:26:13.860 It's subtle.
01:26:14.860 And it.
01:26:15.860 This talk.
01:26:16.860 On hierarchies.
01:26:17.860 Because.
01:26:18.860 I remembered.
01:26:19.860 A graduate student.
01:26:20.860 Who told me.
01:26:21.860 That.
01:26:22.860 She was pretty.
01:26:23.860 Left-leaning.
01:26:24.860 My student.
01:26:25.860 Most.
01:26:26.860 Kind of.
01:26:27.860 A social.
01:26:28.860 Psychologist.
01:26:29.860 She was.
01:26:30.860 Kind of.
01:26:31.860 Communitarian.
01:26:32.860 In her.
01:26:33.860 Ethical.
01:26:34.860 Orientation.
01:26:35.860 So she thought.
01:26:36.860 For example.
01:26:37.860 That if you.
01:26:38.860 Set up.
01:26:39.860 An organization.
01:26:40.860 In which.
01:26:41.860 People.
01:26:42.860 Would be.
01:26:43.860 Happiest.
01:26:44.860 But then.
01:26:45.860 She went.
01:26:46.860 And looked.
01:26:47.860 At the literature.
01:26:48.860 On hierarchical.
01:26:49.860 Organization.
01:26:50.860 And found.
01:26:51.860 That it was.
01:26:52.860 Exactly.
01:26:53.860 The opposite.
01:26:54.860 People.
01:26:55.860 Absolutely.
01:26:56.860 Hate.
01:26:57.860 Organizations.
01:26:58.860 Like.
01:26:59.860 That.
01:27:00.860 Partly.
01:27:01.860 Because.
01:27:02.860 Everyone.
01:27:03.860 Has.
01:27:04.860 To mediate.
01:27:05.860 Every dispute.
01:27:06.860 Well.
01:27:07.860 That's.
01:27:08.860 Not.
01:27:09.860 Going to work.
01:27:10.860 Very well.
01:27:11.860 Who decides.
01:27:12.860 Well.
01:27:13.860 We won't.
01:27:14.860 Do anything.
01:27:15.860 Unless.
01:27:16.860 Everyone agrees.
01:27:17.860 It's like.
01:27:18.860 Twenty minutes.
01:27:19.860 Later.
01:27:20.860 Two of you.
01:27:21.860 Are still.
01:27:22.860 In the bathroom.
01:27:23.860 Right.
01:27:24.860 You haven't even.
01:27:25.860 Got out.
01:27:26.860 Of the hallway.
01:27:27.860 So you.
01:27:28.860 Can't even.
01:27:29.860 Organize.
01:27:30.860 Yourself.
01:27:31.860 To go for lunch.
01:27:32.860 And.
01:27:33.860 Much.
01:27:34.860 Happier.
01:27:35.860 In.
01:27:36.860 Hierarchical.
01:27:37.860 Organizations.
01:27:38.860 But.
01:27:39.860 Happy.
01:27:40.860 Isn't.
01:27:41.860 The right.
01:27:42.860 Word.
01:27:43.860 We.
01:27:44.860 Function.
01:27:45.860 More.
01:27:46.860 Effectively.
01:27:47.860 All.
01:27:48.860 Things.
01:27:49.860 Considered.
01:27:50.860 In.
01:27:51.860 Hierarchical.
01:27:52.860 Organizations.
01:27:53.860 And.
01:27:54.860 Part of.
01:27:55.860 The reason.
01:27:56.860 For.
01:27:57.860 That.
01:27:58.860 Is.
01:27:59.860 That.
01:28:00.860 Is.
01:28:01.860 How.
01:28:02.860 Much.
01:28:03.860 You.
01:28:04.860 Need.
01:28:05.860 To.
01:28:06.860 Know.
01:28:07.860 What.
01:28:08.860 To.
01:28:09.860 Look.
01:28:10.860 At.
01:28:11.860 And.
01:28:12.860 Also.
01:28:13.860 How.
01:28:14.860 You.
01:28:15.860 Figure.
01:28:16.860 Out.
01:28:17.860 What.
01:28:18.860 To.
01:28:19.860 Look.
01:28:20.860 At.
01:28:21.860 Which.
01:28:22.860 Is.
01:28:23.860 What.
01:28:24.860 What.
01:28:25.860 What.
01:28:26.860 What.
01:28:27.860 What.
01:28:28.860 What.
01:28:29.860 What.
01:28:30.860 Those.
01:28:31.860 Is.
01:28:32.860 The.
01:28:33.860 High.
01:28:34.860 Is.
01:28:35.860 Is.
01:28:36.860 The.
01:28:37.860 If.
01:28:38.860 You.
01:28:39.860 Watch.
01:28:40.860 How.
01:28:41.860 It.
01:28:42.860 Diagnostic.
01:28:43.860 of the same species, then a monkey will look at something that a high-status monkey is looking at
01:28:50.860 in preference to something that a low-status monkey is looking at.
01:28:54.860 Now that's an interesting thing, eh? Because you might think, well,
01:28:57.860 how do you determine what it is that's important?
01:28:59.860 Which is maybe what you should focus your gaze on, or what you should focus your aim at.
01:29:03.860 And one of the clues to that might be, well, what do people who have a choice decide to focus on?
01:29:10.860 And then the question there would be, well, who are the people that have a choice?
01:29:13.860 And the answer to that would be, well, people who are higher in the status hierarchy.
01:29:17.860 And so what you want to do is you want to look at the things that people who are high in status hierarchies look at.
01:29:22.860 Because that's a clue to what's worth looking at. Why?
01:29:26.860 Well, it's a clue because obviously they're looking at the right things or they wouldn't be high-status.
01:29:31.860 And it's also a clue because if they're high-status and they're looking at something,
01:29:35.860 then that's an indication that someone of high-status values that thing.
01:29:39.860 And even if the thing isn't intrinsically valuable, the hierarchy is determined that it's valuable
01:29:44.860 and it would probably be worth your time to pursue that thing.
01:29:47.860 Because everyone else has decided that it's valuable.
01:29:50.860 And what are you going to do?
01:29:51.860 Are you going to pursue a bunch of things that everyone else doesn't think is valuable?
01:29:54.860 What are you going to trade then?
01:29:56.860 How are you going to be successful?
01:29:58.860 And this is part of the hint about the structure that structures perception.
01:30:01.860 It's like...
01:30:02.860 And then this is how the marketplace, in some sense, the marketplace of public opinion
01:30:07.860 is integrally associated with the structure that enables you to extract value from the facts of the world.
01:30:13.860 I think they're the same thing.
01:30:15.860 The hierarchy that we produce socially is the same as the hierarchy that we use to perceive the world.
01:30:22.860 They're integrally associated.
01:30:24.860 And I think that part of the reason that people dislike having their belief structures disrupted so much,
01:30:29.860 because we really hate having our belief structures disrupted,
01:30:32.860 is because if your belief structure is disrupted,
01:30:35.860 then it disrupts the structure that you use to perceive the world.
01:30:39.860 And it disrupts the concordance between your perception and what everybody else is perceiving.
01:30:44.860 And that's terribly dangerous,
01:30:45.860 because you don't want to be wandering around in a world
01:30:48.860 where no one else is looking at things the way you are.
01:30:51.860 Right? Now maybe you're a spectacular genius,
01:30:53.860 and you're on the cutting edge and all of that,
01:30:55.860 but you're still going to suffer for that,
01:30:57.860 but probably not.
01:30:58.860 Probably you're just unbelievably alienated or edging towards psychosis.
01:31:03.860 And even if you're correct and everybody else is wrong,
01:31:06.860 it's not like that's going to be a comfortable place to be.
01:31:10.860 That's for sure.
01:31:11.860 And you can tell that by how fast people backtrack online when they're mobbed on Twitter.
01:31:17.860 Right?
01:31:18.860 They put something forward and say,
01:31:19.860 Well, here's what I think.
01:31:20.860 And there's like mob.
01:31:21.860 And they go,
01:31:22.860 Whoa!
01:31:23.860 No!
01:31:24.860 I don't think that!
01:31:25.860 Sorry!
01:31:26.860 You know?
01:31:27.860 I've also been fascinated by that,
01:31:29.860 because one of the things I learned as a clinical psychologist is,
01:31:32.860 you know,
01:31:33.860 I often had clients who had been backed into a corner by people,
01:31:36.860 who were very malevolent,
01:31:37.860 and were trying to discredit them in various ways.
01:31:40.860 And various, like,
01:31:42.860 various subtle and intelligent,
01:31:44.860 and pernicious ways.
01:31:46.860 Right?
01:31:47.860 To undermine them.
01:31:48.860 And one of the things I noticed was that people were very bad at mounting their own defense.
01:31:52.860 You know?
01:31:53.860 So I spent two years with one client.
01:31:56.860 Someone I worked with in a consulting firm.
01:31:59.860 And she worked in a consulting firm.
01:32:01.860 And she had moved in from another firm,
01:32:03.860 with a big client.
01:32:04.860 And when she moved into the new firm,
01:32:06.860 someone undermined her with her client,
01:32:08.860 and then took it,
01:32:09.860 and then made up a story that she was neurotically insane.
01:32:14.860 Partly because she objected to the theft.
01:32:16.860 Right?
01:32:17.860 And this person was very, very effective at doing this.
01:32:19.860 And he was winning the battle.
01:32:22.860 He was blackening her reputation in a very effective way.
01:32:26.860 And it took like two years to mount a defense for her.
01:32:28.860 To get the story straightened back out.
01:32:30.860 Even in her own head.
01:32:31.860 Right?
01:32:32.860 Because she wasn't sure what the reality was.
01:32:34.860 Because it had got so twisted.
01:32:36.860 And it was then that I realized that, partly then,
01:32:39.860 how difficult it is to presume innocence instead of guilt,
01:32:43.860 even on your own behalf.
01:32:45.860 And then I also realized what an absolute bloody miracle it is
01:32:48.860 that we have a legal system where the fundamental presumption
01:32:51.860 is one of innocence.
01:32:53.860 You think, well that's self-evident.
01:32:54.860 It's like, believe me man, that is not self-evident.
01:32:57.860 If ten people go after you and they say you're guilty,
01:33:00.860 you're going to have a hell of a time disagreeing with them.
01:33:03.860 Now maybe you're one ornery son of a bitch.
01:33:05.860 And you can tell everybody to screw off.
01:33:07.860 In which case you probably have your own problems.
01:33:09.860 But, well, because that doesn't come without a cost.
01:33:13.860 But the idea that you would just automatically rise to your own defense
01:33:17.860 if you were attacked unfairly.
01:33:19.860 It's like, I wouldn't rely on that presupposition too hard.
01:33:23.860 Because if you were put to the test, you may find that that's not the case at all.
01:33:27.860 And that might even be a testament to your fundamentally socialized nature.
01:33:31.860 Because like, if a hundred people come after you and shake their finger and say you're wrong.
01:33:37.860 You might be wrong.
01:33:39.860 And if, you know, you know what I mean.
01:33:41.860 It's like a pure psychopath would just say, screw you people.
01:33:43.860 Like, I don't care what you think.
01:33:45.860 But, you know, we're not really admirers of pure psychopaths.
01:33:49.860 And your own sociability might doom you under those circumstances.
01:33:53.860 So, anyways, back to the hierarchy idea.
01:33:57.860 Now, so, here's something else that's really interesting about gaze.
01:34:01.860 So, not only do we have this interesting finding about the monkeys.
01:34:05.860 They look at higher status monkeys more often.
01:34:07.860 And look where higher status monkeys look.
01:34:10.860 Which is unbelievably cool.
01:34:12.860 This is why I love animal experimentalists and ethologists.
01:34:16.860 They come up with these weird little findings.
01:34:18.860 And you think, well, who cares if monkeys look where high status monkeys look.
01:34:22.860 It's like, no, you don't get it.
01:34:24.860 You're a monkey.
01:34:25.860 Right?
01:34:26.860 And you look where high status monkeys look.
01:34:28.860 And that means it's wired into your biology.
01:34:30.860 And to look, and it bears directly on the question of how we determine what constitutes value.
01:34:38.860 And it bears directly on the fact that one of the ways that we determine what constitutes value.
01:34:42.860 Is by coming to a consensus about what's valuable.
01:34:45.860 And then having people mark what's valuable by their gaze.
01:34:49.860 So, here's something else that's cool.
01:34:51.860 Particularly about human beings.
01:34:52.860 So, we can really see.
01:34:53.860 We can see better than any other animal except predatory birds.
01:34:57.860 So, and there's a variety of reasons for that.
01:35:00.860 One of them seems to be that we evolved extremely high resolution vision.
01:35:04.860 Comparatively speaking.
01:35:06.860 To detect reptilian predators.
01:35:09.860 That's one of the, it's not the leading theory.
01:35:11.860 But it's one of the leading theories about how that was developed.
01:35:14.860 So, I think that's extremely cool.
01:35:16.860 But here's something else.
01:35:17.860 So, if you look at human beings eyes.
01:35:20.860 They're very particular and peculiar.
01:35:22.860 Because we have an iris that's marked out by the white of the sclera.
01:35:27.860 Right?
01:35:28.860 So, you know, you have a pupil.
01:35:29.860 And then you have an iris.
01:35:30.860 And then you have the white of your eyes.
01:35:32.860 Other animals don't have that.
01:35:34.860 It's just us.
01:35:35.860 What's the hypothesis?
01:35:37.860 Everybody.
01:35:38.860 Every one of your ancestors.
01:35:40.860 Who had eyes.
01:35:42.860 That other people could not read.
01:35:45.860 Either got killed or did not reproduce.
01:35:48.860 Because one of the things we absolutely want to know about.
01:35:51.860 Everyone that's around us all the time.
01:35:52.860 Is what the hell are they doing with their eyes?
01:35:54.860 And why do we want to know that?
01:35:56.860 It's like, well think about it.
01:35:57.860 When you look at someone.
01:35:58.860 Where do you look?
01:35:59.860 You know, you don't look at their neck.
01:36:01.860 Right?
01:36:02.860 You don't look at their shoulder.
01:36:03.860 You don't even, you don't even really look at their face.
01:36:06.860 You look at their eyes.
01:36:08.860 You look at their eyebrows.
01:36:09.860 And your face is an emotional display unit.
01:36:12.860 Right?
01:36:13.860 It's unbelievably subtle.
01:36:14.860 You know, your facial musculature is so heavily innervated.
01:36:19.860 That you can learn to move one neuron in your face.
01:36:23.860 That's how, that's how high resolution your face is.
01:36:26.860 And so, we're looking at faces.
01:36:28.860 To find out what people are interested in.
01:36:31.860 And we're looking at what people are interested in.
01:36:33.860 So we can figure out what the hell they're up to.
01:36:35.860 And so that's how we understand people.
01:36:37.860 It's so cool.
01:36:38.860 So, the way you understand someone fundamentally.
01:36:41.860 Is you look at what they're looking at.
01:36:44.860 And then you look at it.
01:36:46.860 So you're mimicking them with your body.
01:36:48.860 Right?
01:36:49.860 So if I'm looking at what you're looking at.
01:36:50.860 We're sharing gaze.
01:36:51.860 Then we put ourselves in the same psychophysiological position.
01:36:55.860 We're after the same thing.
01:36:56.860 And so then our emotions line up.
01:36:58.860 So imagine that you're playing monopoly with someone.
01:37:00.860 For example.
01:37:01.860 So you share an aim.
01:37:02.860 Right?
01:37:03.860 Which is to win.
01:37:04.860 And because you share the aim.
01:37:05.860 Then you know what everybody is going to do.
01:37:07.860 From a motivational and emotional perspective.
01:37:09.860 Because you know that if they roll a double six.
01:37:12.860 That they're going to be happy.
01:37:13.860 And if they land on go to jail.
01:37:14.860 That they're going to be unhappy.
01:37:16.860 And so the fact that the goal is shared.
01:37:19.860 And the vision is shared.
01:37:20.860 And the gaze is shared.
01:37:21.860 Means the emotions line up.
01:37:23.860 And the motivations line up.
01:37:24.860 And as soon as the emotions and motivations line up.
01:37:27.860 Then the other people will act like you'll act.
01:37:30.860 And then you can understand them.
01:37:32.860 And so that's also why we need a common goal.
01:37:34.860 You know.
01:37:35.860 In our.
01:37:36.860 In my country.
01:37:37.860 In Canada.
01:37:38.860 And increasingly in yours.
01:37:39.860 And you better look the hell out about this.
01:37:41.860 I can tell you.
01:37:42.860 We've fallen prey in Canada.
01:37:43.860 To the doctrine of multiculturalism.
01:37:45.860 Right?
01:37:46.860 Which has been the official doctrine in Canada.
01:37:47.860 Since about 1968.
01:37:49.860 And it sounds real nice.
01:37:50.860 You know.
01:37:51.860 That everybody can come to Canada.
01:37:53.860 And maintain their culture.
01:37:54.860 And live in peace and harmony.
01:37:55.860 Until you realize that.
01:37:57.860 People around the world.
01:37:58.860 Have maintained their culture everywhere.
01:38:00.860 And it's not exactly like they've been living in peace and harmony.
01:38:04.860 And so why that would transition.
01:38:06.860 Out of that tribal state of warfare.
01:38:08.860 You know.
01:38:09.860 Despite it's advantages in terms of diversity.
01:38:11.860 Merely because.
01:38:12.860 You're now living in the frigid tundra.
01:38:15.860 Of the northern wasteland.
01:38:17.860 Is beyond me.
01:38:18.860 You know.
01:38:19.860 To the degree that people can.
01:38:22.860 Can bring their cultures.
01:38:24.860 To a new culture.
01:38:25.860 And live harmoniously.
01:38:26.860 There's a relationship between them.
01:38:28.860 Between that ability to live in peace.
01:38:31.860 And to adopt a common framework.
01:38:33.860 Right?
01:38:34.860 A common vision.
01:38:35.860 A common purpose.
01:38:36.860 A common set of goals.
01:38:37.860 Because that is actually what unites people in peace.
01:38:41.860 It's the definition of being united in peace.
01:38:44.860 You know.
01:38:45.860 If you have twenty people in a room.
01:38:46.860 And three of them want to play Monopoly.
01:38:48.860 And two of them want to play basketball.
01:38:50.860 And six of them want to have an orgy.
01:38:51.860 And so forth.
01:38:52.860 You're just not going to have a coherent party.
01:38:54.860 Right?
01:38:55.860 This might be exciting.
01:38:57.860 But it's not going to be.
01:38:58.860 It's not going to be coherent.
01:39:00.860 There has to.
01:39:01.860 And I think the politicians in my country.
01:39:03.860 Have been so damn naive.
01:39:04.860 That they didn't understand.
01:39:06.860 That it was the fundamental.
01:39:08.860 Unifying structures.
01:39:10.860 Of English common law.
01:39:11.860 Among other things.
01:39:12.860 That provided the framework.
01:39:14.860 Within which peace could be had.
01:39:16.860 If people brought the diverse beliefs.
01:39:18.860 Of their various cultures.
01:39:19.860 And subordinated them.
01:39:21.860 To that overarching framework.
01:39:22.860 That's right.
01:39:23.860 So yes.
01:39:24.860 You can maintain your culture.
01:39:25.860 But you have to act.
01:39:26.860 Within the boundaries.
01:39:27.860 Of constitutional belief.
01:39:28.860 At minimum.
01:39:29.860 Something like that.
01:39:31.860 You can't just.
01:39:32.860 Throw that away.
01:39:33.860 And say it's nothing.
01:39:34.860 It's like.
01:39:35.860 It's bloody well.
01:39:36.860 Not nothing.
01:39:37.860 That's for sure.
01:39:38.860 To get your aim together.
01:39:39.860 And to get your aim together.
01:39:40.860 Is the.
01:39:41.860 Is the.
01:39:42.860 Is the hallmark.
01:39:43.860 It's the hallmark of peace.
01:39:44.860 And the hallmark also.
01:39:45.860 Of productivity.
01:39:46.860 As far.
01:39:47.860 As far as I can tell.
01:39:48.860 It's something like that.
01:39:49.860 So.
01:39:50.860 Okay.
01:39:51.860 So.
01:39:52.860 Alright.
01:39:53.860 So that's.
01:39:54.860 That's a bit of a discussion.
01:39:55.860 About.
01:39:56.860 About the idea of aim.
01:39:57.860 Now.
01:39:58.860 Now.
01:39:59.860 I'm going to.
01:40:00.860 Start from a different position.
01:40:01.860 And I was.
01:40:02.860 Standing backstage.
01:40:03.860 Trying to figure out.
01:40:04.860 What the hell.
01:40:05.860 I was doing.
01:40:06.860 And.
01:40:07.860 Then.
01:40:08.860 I talked to you.
01:40:09.860 A little bit.
01:40:10.860 About.
01:40:11.860 The.
01:40:12.860 The fact.
01:40:13.860 That.
01:40:14.860 Whatever.
01:40:15.860 We're doing here.
01:40:16.860 Is a consequence.
01:40:17.860 Of this technological revolution.
01:40:18.860 And I believe.
01:40:19.860 That that's the case.
01:40:20.860 But I don't think.
01:40:21.860 That's all of it.
01:40:22.860 It's not all medium.
01:40:23.860 Some of it's message.
01:40:24.860 And.
01:40:25.860 One of the things.
01:40:26.860 That I've been.
01:40:27.860 Thinking about.
01:40:28.860 Is that.
01:40:29.860 You know.
01:40:30.860 The value.
01:40:31.860 Of individuality.
01:40:32.860 Right.
01:40:33.860 The end.
01:40:34.860 There's a core idea.
01:40:35.860 There.
01:40:36.860 The core idea.
01:40:37.860 Is that.
01:40:38.860 I don't care.
01:40:39.860 Who you are.
01:40:40.860 But.
01:40:41.860 I'm going to interact.
01:40:42.860 With you.
01:40:43.860 As if.
01:40:44.860 Your individual.
01:40:45.860 Identity.
01:40:46.860 Is superordinate.
01:40:47.860 To your group.
01:40:48.860 Identity.
01:40:49.860 Or to the.
01:40:50.860 Multiplicity.
01:40:51.860 Of your group.
01:40:52.860 Identity.
01:40:53.860 And that's.
01:40:54.860 The proper.
01:40:55.860 Way.
01:40:56.860 Of looking.
01:40:57.860 At the world.
01:40:58.860 And.
01:40:59.860 What I mean.
01:41:00.860 That.
01:41:01.860 I believe.
01:41:02.860 That.
01:41:03.860 If you invert.
01:41:04.860 That.
01:41:05.860 Because.
01:41:06.860 I know.
01:41:07.860 Everyone.
01:41:08.860 Has a group.
01:41:09.860 Identity.
01:41:10.860 Or multiple.
01:41:11.860 Identities.
01:41:12.860 We're social.
01:41:13.860 Creatures.
01:41:14.860 Right.
01:41:15.860 Group identity.
01:41:16.860 And even.
01:41:17.860 Identity.
01:41:18.860 Politics.
01:41:19.860 Types.
01:41:20.860 To pursue.
01:41:21.860 Intersectionality.
01:41:22.860 Ran across.
01:41:23.860 That particular.
01:41:24.860 Conundrum.
01:41:25.860 It's like.
01:41:26.860 Well.
01:41:27.860 If you have.
01:41:28.860 Two.
01:41:29.860 Identities.
01:41:30.860 Identities.
01:41:31.860 Which you do.
01:41:32.860 At least.
01:41:33.860 They can be.
01:41:34.860 Multiplied.
01:41:35.860 Beyond.
01:41:36.860 Count.
01:41:37.860 In some sense.
01:41:39.860 If you make.
01:41:40.860 Group identity.
01:41:41.860 Paramount.
01:41:42.860 Then you.
01:41:43.860 Degenerate.
01:41:44.860 Into tribalism.
01:41:45.860 To war.
01:41:46.860 That's what it looks like.
01:41:47.860 To me.
01:41:48.860 And I think.
01:41:49.860 The only way.
01:41:50.860 Out of that.
01:41:51.860 Even though.
01:41:52.860 It might not be.
01:41:53.860 That stable.
01:41:54.860 A way.
01:41:55.860 Because who knows.
01:41:56.860 If there is.
01:41:57.860 A way out of that.
01:41:58.860 Right.
01:41:59.860 Being tribal.
01:42:00.860 And warlike.
01:42:01.860 That's us.
01:42:02.860 You know.
01:42:03.860 Chimpanzees.
01:42:04.860 Go to war.
01:42:05.860 You know.
01:42:06.860 That was discovered.
01:42:07.860 By Jane Goodall.
01:42:08.860 In the 1970s.
01:42:09.860 And that was.
01:42:10.860 A major discovery.
01:42:11.860 Because.
01:42:12.860 Up till then.
01:42:13.860 I would say.
01:42:14.860 That human beings.
01:42:15.860 Were warlike.
01:42:16.860 Was because.
01:42:17.860 We had been.
01:42:18.860 Warped.
01:42:19.860 By.
01:42:20.860 The.
01:42:21.860 Warped.
01:42:22.860 By our cultures.
01:42:23.860 You know.
01:42:24.860 We're basically.
01:42:25.860 Good people.
01:42:26.860 It's kind of.
01:42:27.860 The noble.
01:42:28.860 Savage idea.
01:42:29.860 You're basically.
01:42:30.860 Good.
01:42:31.860 When you're born.
01:42:32.860 But as you grow up.
01:42:33.860 You're corrupted.
01:42:34.860 By your culture.
01:42:35.860 One of the consequences.
01:42:36.860 Of being corrupted.
01:42:37.860 By your culture.
01:42:38.860 Is that.
01:42:39.860 Maybe you become.
01:42:40.860 Aggressive.
01:42:41.860 And bitter.
01:42:42.860 And you turn.
01:42:43.860 To warfare.
01:42:44.860 It's like.
01:42:45.860 No.
01:42:46.860 Human beings.
01:42:47.860 Are basically.
01:42:48.860 Good.
01:42:49.860 And evil.
01:42:50.860 And culture.
01:42:51.860 Corrupts.
01:42:52.860 And ennobles.
01:42:53.860 And that's.
01:42:54.860 A way.
01:42:55.860 Different story.
01:42:56.860 And don't.
01:42:57.860 Be thinking.
01:42:58.860 Romantic.
01:42:59.860 Thoughts.
01:43:00.860 About.
01:43:01.860 Mother Nature.
01:43:02.860 You know.
01:43:03.860 She's got it.
01:43:04.860 In for you.
01:43:05.860 In the final analysis.
01:43:06.860 So.
01:43:07.860 People.
01:43:08.860 If people weren't on it.
01:43:09.860 Which.
01:43:10.860 Is not a sentiment.
01:43:11.860 I particularly appreciate.
01:43:12.860 I think.
01:43:13.860 Well.
01:43:14.860 If.
01:43:15.860 Mother Nature.
01:43:16.860 Stopped.
01:43:17.860 Trying to kill us.
01:43:18.860 We'd be a lot more friendly.
01:43:19.860 And return to her.
01:43:20.860 To mount.
01:43:21.860 A reasonable.
01:43:22.860 Defense.
01:43:23.860 You know.
01:43:24.860 And I think.
01:43:25.860 We deserve.
01:43:26.860 A little bit more credit.
01:43:27.860 For that.
01:43:28.860 Than we ever get.
01:43:29.860 You know.
01:43:30.860 Like.
01:43:31.860 It's not all just.
01:43:32.860 Casual.
01:43:33.860 It's not all just.
01:43:34.860 In the pursuit.
01:43:35.860 Of leisure.
01:43:36.860 It's like.
01:43:37.860 We're trying.
01:43:38.860 Not to die.
01:43:39.860 Painfully.
01:43:40.860 And that tends.
01:43:41.860 To make a bit.
01:43:42.860 Of a mess.
01:43:43.860 And maybe.
01:43:44.860 We're not as good.
01:43:45.860 At.
01:43:46.860 You know.
01:43:47.860 Cleaning up.
01:43:48.860 The mess.
01:43:49.860 As we might be.
01:43:50.860 But.
01:43:51.860 But we're.
01:43:52.860 We're trying.
01:43:53.860 Christ.
01:43:54.860 It wasn't until.
01:43:55.860 The 1960s.
01:43:56.860 That we even.
01:43:57.860 Realized.
01:43:58.860 That human beings.
01:43:59.860 Had enough.
01:44:00.860 Years ago.
01:44:01.860 You know.
01:44:02.860 It's just.
01:44:03.860 It's yesterday.
01:44:04.860 Right.
01:44:05.860 That's.
01:44:06.860 That's only.
01:44:07.860 Two years.
01:44:08.860 That was like.
01:44:09.860 A year.
01:44:10.860 Before I was born.
01:44:11.860 It's not even.
01:44:12.860 It's not even.
01:44:13.860 A lifetime ago.
01:44:14.860 That that was realized.
01:44:15.860 We're doing.
01:44:16.860 Pretty good.
01:44:17.860 For people.
01:44:18.860 For creatures.
01:44:19.860 That are just.
01:44:20.860 Waking up.
01:44:21.860 To their.
01:44:22.860 Planetary scale.
01:44:23.860 Responsibilities.
01:44:24.860 Anyways.
01:44:25.860 Back to.
01:44:26.860 Back to.
01:44:27.860 Well.
01:44:28.860 Obviously.
01:44:29.860 Denigrated.
01:44:30.860 You know.
01:44:31.860 I actually.
01:44:32.860 Like.
01:44:33.860 Human beings.
01:44:34.860 And they're pretty.
01:44:35.860 Peculiar.
01:44:36.860 Like.
01:44:37.860 Eric Weinstein.
01:44:38.860 For example.
01:44:39.860 It's like.
01:44:40.860 Just.
01:44:41.860 You know.
01:44:42.860 But.
01:44:43.860 Remarkable.
01:44:44.860 Creatures.
01:44:45.860 For Christ's sake.
01:44:46.860 Like.
01:44:47.860 We've got a burden.
01:44:48.860 That's completely.
01:44:49.860 Unbearable.
01:44:50.860 We're the only creatures.
01:44:51.860 That.
01:44:52.860 Fully understand.
01:44:53.860 Our extension.
01:44:54.860 In time.
01:44:55.860 We're the only creatures.
01:44:56.860 That know.
01:44:57.860 We're the only creatures.
01:44:58.860 I can't believe.
01:44:59.860 That we're all not just.
01:45:00.860 Stark.
01:45:01.860 Raving.
01:45:02.860 Mad.
01:45:03.860 All the time.
01:45:04.860 You know.
01:45:05.860 Well.
01:45:06.860 It was something.
01:45:07.860 That just.
01:45:08.860 Staggered me.
01:45:09.860 As a clinical psychologist.
01:45:10.860 Like.
01:45:11.860 I was never.
01:45:12.860 Curious.
01:45:13.860 You're anxious.
01:45:14.860 Really.
01:45:15.860 There's a shock.
01:45:16.860 It's like.
01:45:17.860 You're depressed.
01:45:18.860 Well.
01:45:19.860 What happened to you last year.
01:45:20.860 Oh.
01:45:21.860 Well.
01:45:22.860 My mother died of cancer.
01:45:23.860 And I.
01:45:24.860 Was unemployed.
01:45:25.860 And then my wife left.
01:45:26.860 And you're depressed.
01:45:27.860 Really.
01:45:28.860 If you're not.
01:45:29.860 You're not depressed.
01:45:30.860 You have a miserable life.
01:45:31.860 Right.
01:45:32.860 Right.
01:45:33.860 Well.
01:45:34.860 That's a distinction.
01:45:35.860 You bloody well.
01:45:36.860 Want to make.
01:45:37.860 If you're a clinical psychologist.
01:45:38.860 It was such a relief.
01:45:39.860 To my clients.
01:45:40.860 They come in.
01:45:41.860 And they tell me this story.
01:45:42.860 You're not dead.
01:45:43.860 It's like.
01:45:44.860 And.
01:45:45.860 Well.
01:45:46.860 And I'm a little depressed.
01:45:47.860 It's like.
01:45:48.860 No.
01:45:49.860 You're not.
01:45:50.860 You're not.
01:45:51.860 You have a terrible life.
01:45:52.860 Man.
01:45:53.860 It's terrible.
01:45:54.860 And they'd be so relieved.
01:45:55.860 You know.
01:45:56.860 Because they were wandering around.
01:45:57.860 Thinking.
01:45:58.860 They're wandering around.
01:46:00.860 Thinking.
01:46:01.860 Well.
01:46:02.860 I'm all weak.
01:46:03.860 And depressed.
01:46:04.860 It's like.
01:46:05.860 No.
01:46:06.860 You're not.
01:46:07.860 You're just tortured to death.
01:46:08.860 By God.
01:46:09.860 It's amazing.
01:46:10.860 You're still standing.
01:46:11.860 And your situation.
01:46:12.860 Would be depressed.
01:46:13.860 And I think.
01:46:14.860 That's actually true.
01:46:15.860 Of most people's lives.
01:46:16.860 Quite often.
01:46:17.860 You know.
01:46:18.860 Because.
01:46:19.860 Even.
01:46:20.860 You talk to fortunate people.
01:46:21.860 You know.
01:46:22.860 They look fortunate.
01:46:23.860 From the outside.
01:46:24.860 And.
01:46:25.860 You talk to them.
01:46:26.860 Seriously.
01:46:27.860 Now.
01:46:28.860 It's like.
01:46:29.860 Tragedy.
01:46:30.860 Is one degree away.
01:46:31.860 From everyone.
01:46:32.860 All the time.
01:46:33.860 So.
01:46:34.860 Alright.
01:46:35.860 So.
01:46:36.860 Back to this idea.
01:46:37.860 Of aim.
01:46:38.860 So.
01:46:39.860 You look.
01:46:40.860 Where other people look.
01:46:41.860 And your eyes have evolved.
01:46:42.860 So that other people can read your eyes.
01:46:44.860 And so.
01:46:45.860 What that means.
01:46:46.860 Is that we're.
01:46:47.860 It means something like.
01:46:48.860 It means something like.
01:46:50.860 We're engaged.
01:46:51.860 In the collective process.
01:46:52.860 Of determining.
01:46:53.860 How things.
01:46:55.860 What things.
01:46:56.860 Are valuable.
01:46:57.860 It's something like that.
01:46:58.860 Okay.
01:46:59.860 So.
01:47:00.860 Now.
01:47:01.860 I'm going to think about this.
01:47:02.860 From a free market perspective.
01:47:03.860 So.
01:47:04.860 Here's a defense.
01:47:05.860 Of the free market system.
01:47:06.860 And this is.
01:47:07.860 This is.
01:47:08.860 This is a.
01:47:09.860 I know.
01:47:10.860 God.
01:47:11.860 Who would ever guess.
01:47:12.860 That you could hear that.
01:47:13.860 Right.
01:47:14.860 Okay.
01:47:15.860 The reason that we need a free market.
01:47:16.860 Is because we're stupid.
01:47:17.860 Right.
01:47:18.860 And.
01:47:19.860 And.
01:47:20.860 So.
01:47:21.860 Like I read at one point.
01:47:22.860 Under Solzhenitsyn.
01:47:23.860 That the central.
01:47:24.860 Soviet.
01:47:25.860 Had to make.
01:47:26.860 150,000.
01:47:27.860 Pricing decisions.
01:47:28.860 No.
01:47:29.860 It's 3,000.
01:47:30.860 Pricing decisions.
01:47:31.860 A day.
01:47:32.860 Now.
01:47:33.860 I might have.
01:47:34.860 I might have.
01:47:35.860 The figure wrong.
01:47:36.860 But I don't have.
01:47:37.860 The order of magnitude wrong.
01:47:38.860 It's like.
01:47:39.860 I don't know.
01:47:40.860 How many of you.
01:47:41.860 Have ever started.
01:47:42.860 A small business.
01:47:43.860 Or any sort of business.
01:47:44.860 Where you had a product.
01:47:45.860 But if you did.
01:47:46.860 What you'd find.
01:47:47.860 Is that.
01:47:48.860 Pricing a product.
01:47:49.860 Is insanely difficult.
01:47:50.860 You know.
01:47:51.860 This other program.
01:47:52.860 Which we never could.
01:47:53.860 Really sell.
01:47:54.860 That help people.
01:47:55.860 Hire better employees.
01:47:56.860 Turned out.
01:47:57.860 They didn't want.
01:47:58.860 To hire better employees.
01:47:59.860 So that didn't work.
01:48:00.860 So.
01:48:01.860 Who knew.
01:48:02.860 You know.
01:48:03.860 And we could never.
01:48:04.860 Figure out.
01:48:05.860 We could.
01:48:06.860 Price it at.
01:48:07.860 Nineteen dollars.
01:48:08.860 And then.
01:48:09.860 People could use.
01:48:10.860 Thousands of them.
01:48:11.860 Or we could.
01:48:12.860 But then.
01:48:13.860 It looks cheap.
01:48:14.860 And.
01:48:15.860 Something that.
01:48:16.860 Everybody could have.
01:48:17.860 Or we could.
01:48:18.860 Price it at.
01:48:19.860 Two thousand dollars.
01:48:20.860 And hardly.
01:48:21.860 Anyone would get.
01:48:22.860 It's like.
01:48:23.860 What's the right price.
01:48:24.860 Well.
01:48:25.860 What's the right price.
01:48:26.860 Other thing.
01:48:27.860 That's worth something.
01:48:28.860 Is worth.
01:48:29.860 It's like.
01:48:30.860 Oh.
01:48:31.860 Huh.
01:48:32.860 That's a hard.
01:48:33.860 Computational problem.
01:48:34.860 And then.
01:48:35.860 This is what.
01:48:36.860 Part of the reason.
01:48:37.860 It stops.
01:48:38.860 Like.
01:48:39.860 What's a nail worth.
01:48:40.860 Well.
01:48:41.860 You don't know.
01:48:42.860 Go make one.
01:48:43.860 See how hard it is.
01:48:45.860 It's really hard.
01:48:46.860 To make a nail.
01:48:47.860 It's really hard.
01:48:48.860 To find the iron ore.
01:48:49.860 Like.
01:48:50.860 It's difficult.
01:48:51.860 Maybe.
01:48:52.860 Who knows.
01:48:53.860 What a nail is worth.
01:48:54.860 It's worth a hell of a lot.
01:48:55.860 If it's.
01:48:56.860 What stands between you.
01:48:57.860 And death.
01:48:58.860 Like.
01:48:59.860 A nail is worth a lot.
01:49:00.860 And how do you figure out.
01:49:01.860 What it's worth.
01:49:02.860 Well.
01:49:03.860 It's something like.
01:49:04.860 You let everyone.
01:49:05.860 Bid on it.
01:49:06.860 People.
01:49:07.860 And they're pursuing.
01:49:08.860 All these things.
01:49:09.860 All these different things.
01:49:10.860 This multitude of things.
01:49:11.860 And so.
01:49:12.860 If you let this.
01:49:13.860 The free market.
01:49:14.860 Which is a.
01:49:15.860 What do you call it.
01:49:16.860 A distributed.
01:49:17.860 Cognitive system.
01:49:18.860 That's what it is.
01:49:19.860 It's a distributed.
01:49:20.860 Computational system.
01:49:21.860 That takes.
01:49:22.860 All things.
01:49:23.860 Into account.
01:49:24.860 As well.
01:49:25.860 As the collective.
01:49:26.860 Brain power.
01:49:27.860 Of the entire.
01:49:28.860 Massive.
01:49:29.860 Human beings.
01:49:30.860 That are operating.
01:49:31.860 Within that.
01:49:32.860 Framework.
01:49:33.860 Can manage.
01:49:34.860 And it does it all.
01:49:35.860 Simultaneously.
01:49:36.860 But it's not a perfect mechanism.
01:49:37.860 Because it's trying to solve.
01:49:38.860 An impossible problem.
01:49:39.860 And it does it.
01:49:40.860 Pretty damn.
01:49:41.860 Well.
01:49:42.860 And so.
01:49:43.860 Price.
01:49:44.860 Monetary price.
01:49:45.860 Is a decent indicator.
01:49:46.860 Of value.
01:49:47.860 But not a perfect one.
01:49:48.860 Because.
01:49:49.860 Things.
01:49:50.860 Things.
01:49:51.860 That have value.
01:49:52.860 That you can't price.
01:49:53.860 And that means.
01:49:54.860 That pricing.
01:49:55.860 Isn't a perfect representation.
01:49:56.860 Of value.
01:49:57.860 But it's not.
01:49:58.860 Bad.
01:49:59.860 It's good enough.
01:50:00.860 So that most of the time.
01:50:01.860 We can trade.
01:50:02.860 Without having to kill each other.
01:50:03.860 Or steal.
01:50:04.860 Something.
01:50:05.860 And so.
01:50:06.860 Well.
01:50:07.860 That's my defense.
01:50:08.860 Part of the defense.
01:50:09.860 Of the free market.
01:50:10.860 Is that.
01:50:11.860 Well.
01:50:12.860 We're too stupid.
01:50:13.860 To calculate the price of things.
01:50:14.860 Except by letting everyone vote.
01:50:15.860 On the prices.
01:50:16.860 All the time.
01:50:17.860 Worth more than others.
01:50:18.860 Right.
01:50:19.860 So you get a hierarchy.
01:50:20.860 And so.
01:50:21.860 In the.
01:50:22.860 Implicit.
01:50:23.860 In the process.
01:50:24.860 Of.
01:50:25.860 Pricing.
01:50:26.860 Which is this universal voting.
01:50:27.860 Is the hierarchical organization.
01:50:28.860 Of things.
01:50:29.860 Into.
01:50:30.860 Rank order.
01:50:31.860 I read today.
01:50:32.860 Too.
01:50:33.860 In this same paper.
01:50:34.860 That.
01:50:35.860 The part of your brain.
01:50:36.860 That processes.
01:50:37.860 Social status.
01:50:38.860 Also processes.
01:50:39.860 Rank ordering.
01:50:40.860 Which is extremely interesting.
01:50:41.860 So.
01:50:42.860 And.
01:50:43.860 This is what I'm trying to puzzle out.
01:50:44.860 Tonight.
01:50:45.860 Between.
01:50:46.860 Social status.
01:50:47.860 And social hierarchy.
01:50:48.860 And.
01:50:49.860 Rank order.
01:50:50.860 Pricing.
01:50:51.860 Now.
01:50:52.860 You think.
01:50:53.860 Well.
01:50:54.860 Why would you think.
01:50:55.860 There's a relationship.
01:50:56.860 That's easy.
01:50:57.860 Rich.
01:50:58.860 High status.
01:50:59.860 People.
01:51:00.860 Get the most valuable things.
01:51:01.860 Right.
01:51:02.860 So.
01:51:03.860 Obviously.
01:51:04.860 There's a relationship.
01:51:05.860 Between.
01:51:06.860 Social status.
01:51:07.860 And value.
01:51:08.860 Because.
01:51:09.860 Otherwise.
01:51:10.860 Rich.
01:51:11.860 High status.
01:51:12.860 People.
01:51:13.860 Wouldn't get the most valuable things.
01:51:14.860 And value.
01:51:15.860 Now.
01:51:16.860 Then the question.
01:51:17.860 Starts to become.
01:51:18.860 And.
01:51:19.860 This is.
01:51:20.860 Another.
01:51:21.860 So.
01:51:22.860 So.
01:51:23.860 That works out.
01:51:24.860 Pretty nicely.
01:51:25.860 And.
01:51:26.860 There's something.
01:51:27.860 That's.
01:51:28.860 Genuine.
01:51:29.860 And.
01:51:30.860 Valid.
01:51:31.860 To be said.
01:51:32.860 About that.
01:51:33.860 So.
01:51:34.860 Then the question.
01:51:35.860 To generate money.
01:51:36.860 If you had to pick one of those.
01:51:38.860 Now.
01:51:39.860 This is a tough one.
01:51:40.860 Now.
01:51:41.860 We didn't experiment a while back.
01:51:42.860 Couldn't replicate it very well.
01:51:43.860 But.
01:51:44.860 We tried to.
01:51:45.860 We tried to test this question.
01:51:46.860 With women.
01:51:47.860 Because.
01:51:48.860 Women like high status men.
01:51:50.860 And.
01:51:51.860 That's cross cultural.
01:51:52.860 So.
01:51:53.860 If you look at.
01:51:54.860 Female mating preferences.
01:51:55.860 Women mate across.
01:51:56.860 Or up.
01:51:57.860 Social hierarchies.
01:51:58.860 Even in egalitarian societies.
01:51:59.860 Like Scandinavia.
01:52:00.860 And.
01:52:01.860 We thought.
01:52:02.860 Well.
01:52:03.860 Are women.
01:52:04.860 Going for wealth.
01:52:05.860 Because.
01:52:06.860 That's associated with.
01:52:07.860 Socioeconomic status.
01:52:08.860 Or.
01:52:09.860 Are they going for the ability.
01:52:10.860 To generate wealth.
01:52:11.860 Which is a way better bet.
01:52:12.860 And.
01:52:13.860 In our initial experiments.
01:52:14.860 We found that women.
01:52:15.860 Were better at.
01:52:16.860 Going for the ability.
01:52:17.860 To generate wealth.
01:52:18.860 Because.
01:52:19.860 That was more reliable.
01:52:20.860 Wealth can be stolen.
01:52:21.860 Say.
01:52:22.860 It's hard to store.
01:52:23.860 But.
01:52:24.860 Your ability.
01:52:25.860 To generate.
01:52:26.860 An excess.
01:52:27.860 Of characteristic.
01:52:28.860 Maybe.
01:52:29.860 That's associated.
01:52:30.860 With your intelligence.
01:52:31.860 That's what the research.
01:52:32.860 Data.
01:52:33.860 Indicates.
01:52:34.860 And.
01:52:35.860 It's also associated.
01:52:36.860 With your conscientiousness.
01:52:37.860 And.
01:52:38.860 Maybe.
01:52:39.860 Your trait creativity.
01:52:40.860 And.
01:52:41.860 So.
01:52:42.860 It looks like.
01:52:43.860 Human beings.
01:52:44.860 Have selected.
01:52:45.860 Each other.
01:52:46.860 Quite.
01:52:47.860 Tightly.
01:52:48.860 For intelligence.
01:52:49.860 And.
01:52:50.860 Conscientiousness.
01:52:51.860 And.
01:52:52.860 Trait creativity.
01:52:53.860 And.
01:52:54.860 That sort of thing.
01:52:55.860 On.
01:52:56.860 The.
01:52:57.860 Let's say.
01:52:58.860 You had a choice.
01:52:59.860 You could be born.
01:53:00.860 At the 95th percentile.
01:53:01.860 In the United States.
01:53:02.860 For wealth.
01:53:03.860 Or you could be born.
01:53:04.860 At the 95th percentile.
01:53:05.860 For intelligence.
01:53:06.860 Would you be better off.
01:53:07.860 At 40.
01:53:08.860 If you were born.
01:53:09.860 At 95th percentile.
01:53:10.860 Wealth.
01:53:11.860 Or 95th percentile.
01:53:12.860 Intelligence.
01:53:13.860 And the answer is.
01:53:14.860 It's intelligence.
01:53:15.860 Yeah.
01:53:16.860 Which I love that.
01:53:17.860 That's so cool.
01:53:18.860 Because it's actually.
01:53:19.860 A bit of a validation.
01:53:20.860 Truly.
01:53:21.860 Merit based.
01:53:22.860 Element.
01:53:23.860 Of the meritocracy.
01:53:24.860 Because.
01:53:25.860 If the reverse.
01:53:26.860 Was true.
01:53:27.860 Well.
01:53:28.860 Then you don't.
01:53:29.860 Well.
01:53:30.860 You have to accept.
01:53:31.860 A proposition.
01:53:32.860 Is it better.
01:53:33.860 If it's intelligent.
01:53:34.860 People.
01:53:35.860 That rise.
01:53:36.860 To the top.
01:53:37.860 To distribute.
01:53:38.860 Things equally.
01:53:39.860 You know.
01:53:40.860 Regardless.
01:53:41.860 Of cognitive.
01:53:42.860 Ability.
01:53:43.860 And.
01:53:44.860 You can make a case.
01:53:45.860 For that.
01:53:46.860 But then.
01:53:47.860 Let's say.
01:53:48.860 You want to be selfish.
01:53:49.860 It's like.
01:53:50.860 No.
01:53:51.860 Maybe.
01:53:52.860 You want to devote.
01:53:53.860 More resources.
01:53:54.860 To people.
01:53:55.860 Who are smart.
01:53:56.860 Enough.
01:53:57.860 To figure out.
01:53:58.860 Things.
01:53:59.860 That you would like.
01:54:00.860 To have figured out.
01:54:01.860 Right.
01:54:02.860 Well.
01:54:03.860 That's also.
01:54:04.860 That's also.
01:54:05.860 One of the.
01:54:06.860 Issues.
01:54:07.860 Of resources.
01:54:08.860 Would increase.
01:54:09.860 The rate.
01:54:10.860 At which.
01:54:11.860 Things.
01:54:12.860 Problems.
01:54:13.860 You wanted.
01:54:14.860 Solved.
01:54:15.860 Were solved.
01:54:16.860 And you might.
01:54:17.860 Think.
01:54:18.860 Well.
01:54:19.860 That's pretty.
01:54:20.860 Damn.
01:54:21.860 Naive.
01:54:22.860 You know.
01:54:23.860 Only.
01:54:24.860 Only.
01:54:25.860 Only.
01:54:26.860 Pollyanna.
01:54:27.860 Would think.
01:54:28.860 That the.
01:54:29.860 The economic.
01:54:30.860 System.
01:54:31.860 Is set up.
01:54:32.860 That way.
01:54:33.860 And it's like.
01:54:34.860 It is.
01:54:35.860 Set up.
01:54:36.860 To.
01:54:37.860 To.
01:54:38.860 To.
01:54:39.860 And that's.
01:54:40.860 A micro aggression.
01:54:41.860 By the way.
01:54:42.860 In case.
01:54:43.860 Any of you.
01:54:44.860 Are keeping.
01:54:45.860 Track of them.
01:54:46.860 And I mean.
01:54:47.860 That technically.
01:54:48.860 Because.
01:54:49.860 In the.
01:54:50.860 UC.
01:54:51.860 Campuses.
01:54:52.860 People.
01:54:53.860 People.
01:54:54.860 Get ahead.
01:54:55.860 Because.
01:54:56.860 They work hard.
01:54:57.860 So.
01:54:58.860 And I'm.
01:54:59.860 Not.
01:55:00.860 That is.
01:55:01.860 No.
01:55:02.860 Word of lie.
01:55:03.860 Look it up.
01:55:04.860 Look it up.
01:55:05.860 And you should.
01:55:06.860 Blame.
01:55:07.860 So.
01:55:08.860 So.
01:55:09.860 So.
01:55:10.860 Okay.
01:55:12.860 So.
01:55:13.860 It may be better.
01:55:15.860 To.
01:55:16.860 Choose.
01:55:17.860 To generate wealth.
01:55:18.860 Than to choose wealth.
01:55:20.860 And so.
01:55:21.860 Then it might be better.
01:55:22.860 Then you might think.
01:55:23.860 That competence.
01:55:24.860 Is more valuable.
01:55:25.860 Than.
01:55:26.860 Material wealth.
01:55:27.860 Is that.
01:55:28.860 Is that a possibility.
01:55:29.860 We might be able to.
01:55:30.860 Assume.
01:55:31.860 That that's the case.
01:55:32.860 Okay.
01:55:33.860 So.
01:55:34.860 Then.
01:55:35.860 This is where things get.
01:55:36.860 Even more complicated.
01:55:37.860 See.
01:55:38.860 I've been trying to figure out.
01:55:40.860 What it is.
01:55:42.860 That.
01:55:43.860 A hierarchy.
01:55:44.860 A human hierarchy.
01:55:45.860 Is actually.
01:55:46.860 Based on.
01:55:47.860 Now.
01:55:48.860 The cynics.
01:55:49.860 That would be the post-modernists.
01:55:50.860 And the Marxists.
01:55:51.860 So.
01:55:52.860 That's ignorant cynics.
01:55:53.860 By the way.
01:55:54.860 Because cynic isn't enough.
01:55:55.860 You have to add the ignorant in there.
01:55:57.860 To get it really right.
01:55:58.860 And.
01:55:59.860 The reason that I say that.
01:56:00.860 And I would also say.
01:56:01.860 Malevolent.
01:56:02.860 And.
01:56:03.860 Willfully blind.
01:56:04.860 And.
01:56:05.860 Vengeful.
01:56:08.860 And.
01:56:09.860 And.
01:56:10.860 I.
01:56:11.860 I'm.
01:56:12.860 I'm.
01:56:13.860 I'm serious about those things.
01:56:14.860 I.
01:56:15.860 I think those are all justifiable claims.
01:56:17.860 Willfully blind.
01:56:18.860 Because we know what Marxism did in the 20th century.
01:56:20.860 If we want to keep our eyes open.
01:56:21.860 And.
01:56:22.860 If we don't.
01:56:23.860 Then.
01:56:24.860 We have to wonder what we're up to.
01:56:25.860 If you don't keep your eyes open.
01:56:26.860 You can't see the point.
01:56:27.860 And maybe.
01:56:28.860 If you don't keep your eyes open.
01:56:29.860 You don't want to see the bloody point.
01:56:31.860 Then that's for sure.
01:56:32.860 That's certainly the case.
01:56:33.860 In a situation like.
01:56:34.860 The analysis of what happened on the radical left.
01:56:36.860 In the 20th century.
01:56:37.860 Because that was some bloody nightmare.
01:56:39.860 That's for sure.
01:56:40.860 So that's the willfully blind part.
01:56:42.860 The.
01:56:43.860 Okay.
01:56:44.860 So.
01:56:45.860 The basic critique.
01:56:47.860 As far as I can tell.
01:56:48.860 The basic critique.
01:56:49.860 That's emerging out of the universities.
01:56:51.860 Of our cultural and economic systems.
01:56:53.860 Is that.
01:56:54.860 It's a.
01:56:55.860 It's a.
01:56:56.860 Variant of the old Marxist doctrine.
01:56:57.860 That it was the bourgeoisie against the proletariat.
01:56:59.860 Right.
01:57:00.860 That the bourgeoisie.
01:57:01.860 They were wealthy.
01:57:02.860 And the only reason they got their wealth.
01:57:03.860 Is because they took it from people who were poor.
01:57:05.860 Now.
01:57:06.860 What we should point out.
01:57:07.860 Is that.
01:57:08.860 Some people who are wealthy.
01:57:09.860 Are wealthy.
01:57:10.860 Because they take money from the poor.
01:57:11.860 Right.
01:57:12.860 But that doesn't mean that all people who are wealthy.
01:57:14.860 Are wealthy.
01:57:15.860 Because they take money from the poor.
01:57:17.860 And there is a big difference between some.
01:57:19.860 And all.
01:57:21.860 And the difference between some and all.
01:57:24.860 Is the difference between someone who thinks.
01:57:26.860 And someone who's an ideologue.
01:57:28.860 Because what the ideologue says is.
01:57:30.860 All.
01:57:31.860 And if they say all.
01:57:32.860 You better look out.
01:57:33.860 Because you have more than some other person has.
01:57:36.860 And if it's the case that.
01:57:38.860 Wealth is theft.
01:57:40.860 Then to the degree that you have more than someone else.
01:57:44.860 You're an oppressor.
01:57:45.860 And if you think that isn't.
01:57:47.860 Dangerous.
01:57:48.860 Then.
01:57:49.860 You don't know very much about what happened in places like.
01:57:52.860 The Soviet Union.
01:57:53.860 Because really what happened as the Russian revolution progressed.
01:57:56.860 Was that was exactly how it turned out.
01:57:58.860 That because of your multiple group identities.
01:58:01.860 I can find one dimension along which you're clearly bourgeois.
01:58:05.860 And if you're bourgeois along one dimension.
01:58:07.860 And not along nine others.
01:58:08.860 It doesn't matter.
01:58:09.860 Because even if you're a little bit bourgeois.
01:58:11.860 That's enough to pack you off to the camps.
01:58:14.860 And so.
01:58:15.860 So.
01:58:16.860 Okay.
01:58:17.860 So we're.
01:58:18.860 Now.
01:58:19.860 Back.
01:58:20.860 Back to the.
01:58:21.860 Back to the wealth issue.
01:58:22.860 So.
01:58:23.860 Some people who generate wealth.
01:58:25.860 Do it as a consequence of.
01:58:27.860 The pathology of the hierarchical system.
01:58:29.860 But many people don't.
01:58:31.860 So what are the other pathways to wealth.
01:58:33.860 Well.
01:58:34.860 Intelligence.
01:58:35.860 Conscientiousness.
01:58:36.860 And so.
01:58:37.860 Intelligence would be the ability to.
01:58:38.860 Solve complex problems.
01:58:40.860 Think.
01:58:41.860 Well.
01:58:42.860 Why do we want complex problems solved.
01:58:43.860 And that's where you get down to the bedrock of things.
01:58:46.860 I think.
01:58:47.860 Well.
01:58:48.860 And this is justification for hierarchies.
01:58:50.860 It's like.
01:58:51.860 Well.
01:58:52.860 Do we have problems.
01:58:53.860 The answer to that seems to be.
01:58:55.860 Yes.
01:58:56.860 Right.
01:58:57.860 Because.
01:58:58.860 Everyone has problems.
01:58:59.860 And you can tell that you have problems.
01:59:00.860 Because.
01:59:01.860 You're too damn anxious.
01:59:02.860 And you're in too much pain.
01:59:04.860 And there's too much suffering in your family.
01:59:06.860 And you're not as content as you could be.
01:59:08.860 And.
01:59:09.860 And maybe even if you're doing okay.
01:59:10.860 Well.
01:59:11.860 You can see that kind of.
01:59:12.860 Level of misery around you.
01:59:13.860 And that's a.
01:59:14.860 It's a standard existential fact.
01:59:16.860 That's a fact of reality.
01:59:18.860 The existence of suffering.
01:59:19.860 And maybe the other reason.
01:59:21.860 The other evidence.
01:59:22.860 That we have problems.
01:59:23.860 Is that.
01:59:24.860 There's also.
01:59:25.860 Plenty of evidence.
01:59:26.860 For malevolence.
01:59:27.860 People misbehave badly.
01:59:28.860 And they make a bad situation.
01:59:29.860 Worse than it has to be.
01:59:30.860 And so.
01:59:31.860 There's no shortage of suffering.
01:59:32.860 And malevolence.
01:59:33.860 So.
01:59:34.860 That means.
01:59:35.860 We actually have real problems.
01:59:36.860 And the reason.
01:59:37.860 I'm making this case.
01:59:38.860 It's a very specific reason.
01:59:39.860 One of the.
01:59:40.860 One of the.
01:59:41.860 Pathologies.
01:59:42.860 Of the post-modern doctrine.
01:59:44.860 All protestations.
01:59:45.860 To the contrary.
01:59:46.860 Is that there's no.
01:59:47.860 Real world.
01:59:48.860 Out there.
01:59:49.860 There's just.
01:59:50.860 Social construction.
01:59:51.860 Right.
01:59:52.860 That everything we see.
01:59:53.860 Is.
01:59:54.860 Just a social construction.
01:59:55.860 And arbitrary.
01:59:56.860 In some sense.
01:59:57.860 And.
01:59:58.860 You know.
01:59:59.860 It's a powerful argument.
02:00:00.860 Because a lot.
02:00:01.860 Of what we do.
02:00:02.860 Is arbitrary.
02:00:03.860 You know.
02:00:04.860 It's like.
02:00:05.860 You're a plumber.
02:00:06.860 And you're a lawyer.
02:00:07.860 And you're a physician.
02:00:08.860 And you like to play.
02:00:09.860 And you like to play.
02:00:10.860 There's lots of ways.
02:00:11.860 To go through life.
02:00:12.860 And.
02:00:13.860 That's.
02:00:14.860 That's partly.
02:00:15.860 What makes the moral.
02:00:16.860 Relativism argument.
02:00:17.860 Relatively powerful.
02:00:18.860 Is there are.
02:00:19.860 Lots of ways.
02:00:20.860 Of being.
02:00:21.860 That seem to be valid.
02:00:22.860 But.
02:00:23.860 That doesn't mean.
02:00:24.860 That there's no reality.
02:00:25.860 It doesn't mean.
02:00:26.860 That we just.
02:00:27.860 Can vote on.
02:00:28.860 And conjure up.
02:00:29.860 Any reality.
02:00:30.860 We want.
02:00:31.860 Something solid underneath.
02:00:32.860 That.
02:00:33.860 That.
02:00:34.860 That.
02:00:35.860 That you have to.
02:00:36.860 Contend with.
02:00:37.860 And well.
02:00:38.860 I would think.
02:00:39.860 Well.
02:00:40.860 What.
02:00:41.860 What are the solid things.
02:00:42.860 How about death.
02:00:43.860 That's one.
02:00:44.860 How about suffering.
02:00:45.860 That's another.
02:00:46.860 Malevolence.
02:00:47.860 That's another.
02:00:48.860 The real.
02:00:49.860 It's like.
02:00:50.860 Yeah.
02:00:51.860 But you act.
02:00:52.860 Like the real.
02:00:53.860 So.
02:00:54.860 I don't care.
02:00:55.860 What you think.
02:00:56.860 You know.
02:00:57.860 If you're in pain.
02:00:58.860 Try to argue.
02:00:59.860 Yourself.
02:01:00.860 Out of your pain.
02:01:01.860 Good luck.
02:01:02.860 With that.
02:01:03.860 You know.
02:01:04.860 That's where the.
02:01:05.860 That's where the.
02:01:06.860 That's where the metal.
02:01:07.860 That's where the.
02:01:08.860 Tire hits the road.
02:01:09.860 As far as I'm concerned.
02:01:10.860 Think that's why.
02:01:11.860 So much.
02:01:12.860 So many.
02:01:13.860 Religious systems.
02:01:14.860 Insist upon.
02:01:15.860 The.
02:01:16.860 The equation.
02:01:17.860 Of life.
02:01:18.860 Or maybe it's.
02:01:19.860 I'm malevolent.
02:01:20.860 Therefore I am.
02:01:21.860 I think those things.
02:01:22.860 Are more undeniable.
02:01:23.860 Than thinking.
02:01:24.860 It's like.
02:01:25.860 Maybe I don't think.
02:01:26.860 But I'm certainly.
02:01:27.860 In pain.
02:01:28.860 And so is everyone else.
02:01:29.860 And so we have.
02:01:30.860 Real problems.
02:01:31.860 And that's the real world.
02:01:33.860 And so because we have.
02:01:34.860 Real problems.
02:01:35.860 We need to solve them.
02:01:36.860 We need.
02:01:37.860 Real solutions.
02:01:38.860 And that means.
02:01:39.860 If we need.
02:01:40.860 Real solutions.
02:01:41.860 We need.
02:01:42.860 Competent.
02:01:43.860 People.
02:01:44.860 To solve.
02:01:45.860 The damn.
02:01:46.860 Problems.
02:01:47.860 It's solved.
02:01:48.860 Right?
02:01:49.860 It disappears.
02:01:50.860 And then you might say.
02:01:51.860 Well.
02:01:52.860 What do we want to do?
02:01:53.860 Do we want to solve a problem efficiently?
02:01:54.860 Or inefficiently?
02:01:55.860 And the answer is.
02:01:56.860 Well.
02:01:57.860 Do you only have one problem?
02:01:58.860 Do you have one problem in infinite resources?
02:02:00.860 Well.
02:02:01.860 Then you don't care if it's efficient.
02:02:02.860 Maybe you have ten problems.
02:02:04.860 And constrained resources.
02:02:05.860 Which you do.
02:02:06.860 Well.
02:02:07.860 Then efficiency matters.
02:02:08.860 So not only do we have real problems.
02:02:10.860 We want them actually solved.
02:02:12.860 And we want them solved in an efficient manner.
02:02:14.860 And so how are we going to do that?
02:02:16.860 Well.
02:02:17.860 How about we get stupid and lazy people to solve them?
02:02:20.860 Well.
02:02:21.860 That seems like a bad idea.
02:02:23.860 You know.
02:02:24.860 And you might say.
02:02:25.860 Well.
02:02:26.860 I'm sorry to be so blunt.
02:02:27.860 It's not their fault they're stupid.
02:02:29.860 And it's not their fault they're lazy.
02:02:30.860 And there's actually a fair bit of truth to both of those.
02:02:33.860 Because even trait conscientiousness.
02:02:35.860 Which is the trait that's associated with hard work and diligence.
02:02:39.860 There's a fair genetic component to that.
02:02:42.860 It's like 50% of the variability in trait conscientiousness.
02:02:45.860 Looks like it's attributable to genetic factors.
02:02:47.860 And it isn't easy to know what to make of that.
02:02:49.860 So.
02:02:50.860 Does that still mean we should reward people who work harder?
02:02:53.860 It's like well.
02:02:54.860 Why do you work harder?
02:02:55.860 Well.
02:02:56.860 Maybe it's your character.
02:02:57.860 Whatever that is.
02:02:58.860 It's not like I doubt that.
02:02:59.860 But I.
02:03:00.860 But the literature indicates that you can predict conscientiousness using genetic analysis.
02:03:05.860 So there's something about it that's kind of arbitrary.
02:03:07.860 But that seems to me to some degree beside the point.
02:03:10.860 Not completely.
02:03:11.860 But to some degree beside the point.
02:03:12.860 We still want to devote resources to.
02:03:14.860 Because we have real problems.
02:03:16.860 What we want to do is produce hierarchies that devote resources to the people who are most likely to solve the problems.
02:03:21.860 And the best bet we have is to final resources to people who are smart and competent.
02:03:26.860 And of course.
02:03:27.860 It's not like you really want to argue about that.
02:03:29.860 It's like let's say you have brain cancer.
02:03:31.860 It's like.
02:03:32.860 So you're going to go find a surgeon.
02:03:33.860 Well.
02:03:34.860 You're going to hope there's a hierarchy of surgeons.
02:03:36.860 Right?
02:03:37.860 And you're going to hope you have access to the information about that hierarchy.
02:03:40.860 And you're going to hope that the damn surgeon who operates on your brain is smart and competent.
02:03:45.860 And maybe you're willing to pay a premium for that.
02:03:48.860 Because.
02:03:49.860 Well.
02:03:50.860 Because otherwise.
02:03:51.860 Well then you die.
02:03:52.860 And that actually turns out generally to matter to people.
02:03:56.860 And so that actually constitutes.
02:03:58.860 That's a real problem.
02:03:59.860 Right?
02:04:00.860 That's the real world.
02:04:01.860 Right there.
02:04:02.860 So.
02:04:03.860 Okay.
02:04:04.860 So.
02:04:05.860 What's the utility of hierarchy?
02:04:08.860 Well.
02:04:09.860 Here's how it works.
02:04:11.860 And I think this is why it's inevitable.
02:04:12.860 And this is supported by the relevant scientific literature.
02:04:16.860 Now it's more complex.
02:04:17.860 In the case of human beings.
02:04:18.860 Because animals when they aggregate into hierarchies.
02:04:21.860 The hierarchies are mostly dominance.
02:04:23.860 It's power.
02:04:24.860 And human hierarchies.
02:04:26.860 They tilt.
02:04:27.860 Especially in non-tyrannical societies.
02:04:29.860 The hierarchies tilt more towards competence.
02:04:31.860 Now it's not like competence is pleasant.
02:04:33.860 Because there are massive differences in people's competence.
02:04:36.860 And that's actually a really harsh truth.
02:04:38.860 You know.
02:04:39.860 It's like.
02:04:40.860 Here's an example.
02:04:41.860 We made this instrument called the creative achievement questionnaire.
02:04:43.860 And what it does is it.
02:04:45.860 It gives you a score.
02:04:46.860 Indicating how many creative things you've achieved in your life.
02:04:49.860 Not thoughts you've had.
02:04:50.860 But actual things you've done that are creative.
02:04:53.860 Have you written a piece of music?
02:04:55.860 Have you written a screenplay?
02:04:57.860 Have you invented something?
02:04:59.860 Have you written a scientific paper?
02:05:01.860 Can you dance?
02:05:03.860 Can you sing?
02:05:04.860 Et cetera, et cetera.
02:05:05.860 And so.
02:05:06.860 What we did was.
02:05:07.860 We identified 13 domains of creative achievement.
02:05:10.860 And then we had experts rank order different levels of attainment within those domains.
02:05:14.860 Ranging from zero.
02:05:16.860 I have no training or recognized talent in this area.
02:05:19.860 To ten.
02:05:20.860 Something like ten.
02:05:21.860 I have an international reputation.
02:05:23.860 The median score.
02:05:25.860 Across the 13 dimensions.
02:05:27.860 Was zero.
02:05:28.860 Seventy percent of people scored zero.
02:05:32.860 On the 13 dimensional creative achievement questionnaire.
02:05:34.860 Right.
02:05:35.860 And then a tiny fraction of people were just hyper creative.
02:05:39.860 You think.
02:05:40.860 Well that's inequality.
02:05:41.860 And so this is also.
02:05:42.860 Is this a justification for inequality?
02:05:44.860 That's what I've been thinking about for about a month.
02:05:46.860 I thought.
02:05:47.860 Can I make a case for inequality?
02:05:48.860 Sounds.
02:05:49.860 That'll make me popular.
02:05:50.860 The case for inequality.
02:05:51.860 Why is it good to have rich people?
02:05:53.860 There's a good one.
02:05:54.860 It's like.
02:05:55.860 No one ever asks that.
02:05:56.860 Should we have rich people?
02:05:57.860 It's like.
02:05:58.860 No.
02:05:59.860 It's rich.
02:06:00.860 That's not good.
02:06:01.860 Well let's.
02:06:02.860 Let's think about that for a minute.
02:06:03.860 So when flat screen TVs came out.
02:06:05.860 What.
02:06:06.860 How much did they cost?
02:06:07.860 Like.
02:06:08.860 Well.
02:06:09.860 When they first came out.
02:06:10.860 They cost.
02:06:11.860 As much as the factory that built them.
02:06:13.860 Right.
02:06:14.860 So that's a lot.
02:06:15.860 And then maybe you produce a thousand.
02:06:17.860 And the price dropped to.
02:06:18.860 Sixty-five thousand dollars.
02:06:20.860 For maybe a sixty-five inch flat screen.
02:06:22.860 So then only the guy you hate up the street.
02:06:24.860 Who has three Mercedes.
02:06:25.860 Could have a sixty-five inch flat screen.
02:06:27.860 Right.
02:06:28.860 But then it's like.
02:06:29.860 Five years later.
02:06:30.860 You have two of them.
02:06:31.860 And they don't cost anything.
02:06:32.860 And why is that?
02:06:33.860 It's because.
02:06:34.860 Some lucky bastard.
02:06:35.860 Got one.
02:06:36.860 Before you did.
02:06:37.860 And that's the price you pay.
02:06:39.860 For ever getting one.
02:06:40.860 And I actually think.
02:06:41.860 That's an unassailable truth.
02:06:43.860 I think that you cannot.
02:06:44.860 Get.
02:06:45.860 A valued good.
02:06:46.860 To everyone.
02:06:47.860 Without only getting it.
02:06:49.860 To some people first.
02:06:51.860 And I mean.
02:06:52.860 It's.
02:06:53.860 And I'm not an economist.
02:06:54.860 And Eric is probably.
02:06:55.860 Like tearing his hair out.
02:06:56.860 Behind the.
02:06:57.860 Behind the stage.
02:06:58.860 But.
02:06:59.860 But it seems to me.
02:07:00.860 That.
02:07:01.860 If you don't have.
02:07:02.860 Pools of.
02:07:03.860 Unequal distribution.
02:07:04.860 Of wealth.
02:07:05.860 Pools of wealth.
02:07:06.860 That.
02:07:07.860 You can't introduce.
02:07:08.860 New and expensive products.
02:07:09.860 Into a marketplace.
02:07:10.860 Without.
02:07:11.860 With.
02:07:12.860 In the hope.
02:07:13.860 Of making them.
02:07:14.860 Mass accessible.
02:07:15.860 Unless you have.
02:07:16.860 Some people.
02:07:17.860 That's really expensive.
02:07:18.860 And I started thinking.
02:07:19.860 About this.
02:07:20.860 Because a friend of mine.
02:07:21.860 Who works on the development.
02:07:22.860 Of computer chips.
02:07:23.860 Said that.
02:07:24.860 We were talking about.
02:07:25.860 The necessity.
02:07:26.860 For private.
02:07:27.860 Pools of wealth.
02:07:28.860 And he said.
02:07:29.860 Well you know.
02:07:30.860 Some things are really.
02:07:31.860 Expensive.
02:07:32.860 Like chip.
02:07:33.860 Fabrication plants.
02:07:34.860 Or a small number of people.
02:07:35.860 A small group of people.
02:07:36.860 Have to have.
02:07:37.860 Four and a half.
02:07:38.860 Billion dollars.
02:07:39.860 You don't get to have.
02:07:40.860 A chip.
02:07:41.860 Fab plant.
02:07:42.860 And then you don't have.
02:07:43.860 An iPhone.
02:07:44.860 It's not like.
02:07:45.860 An iPhone.
02:07:46.860 Is cheap.
02:07:47.860 To try to make.
02:07:48.860 One of those.
02:07:49.860 That's.
02:07:50.860 It's taken.
02:07:51.860 Three and a half.
02:07:52.860 Billion years.
02:07:53.860 To make.
02:07:54.860 One of those.
02:07:55.860 Man.
02:07:56.860 That's a complicated.
02:07:57.860 That's a complicated.
02:07:58.860 Thing.
02:07:59.860 Okay.
02:08:00.860 So.
02:08:01.860 So.
02:08:02.860 I won't go anymore.
02:08:03.860 On the inequality.
02:08:04.860 End of things.
02:08:05.860 But I've been thinking.
02:08:06.860 About a lot.
02:08:07.860 Well.
02:08:08.860 Okay.
02:08:09.860 We'll actually.
02:08:10.860 Here's another thing.
02:08:11.860 Well.
02:08:12.860 So.
02:08:13.860 Imagine a world.
02:08:14.860 That was equal.
02:08:15.860 Where everyone was equal.
02:08:16.860 Armstrong.
02:08:17.860 And.
02:08:18.860 Rudolf Nureyev.
02:08:19.860 Combined.
02:08:20.860 Plus.
02:08:21.860 They can play.
02:08:22.860 Basketball.
02:08:23.860 It's like.
02:08:24.860 So.
02:08:25.860 Is everybody.
02:08:26.860 All of a sudden.
02:08:27.860 Super skilled.
02:08:28.860 At everything.
02:08:29.860 Or.
02:08:30.860 Is everybody.
02:08:31.860 Terrible.
02:08:32.860 At everything.
02:08:33.860 I don't know.
02:08:34.860 All of those.
02:08:35.860 Things are equal.
02:08:36.860 Seems a lot.
02:08:37.860 To ask.
02:08:38.860 To assume.
02:08:39.860 That everybody.
02:08:40.860 Is going to be.
02:08:41.860 Like.
02:08:42.860 Rudolf Nureyev.
02:08:43.860 To the.
02:08:44.860 Fourth power.
02:08:45.860 Anything.
02:08:46.860 To be.
02:08:47.860 Spectacular.
02:08:48.860 We have.
02:08:49.860 To let.
02:08:50.860 Only.
02:08:51.860 Some.
02:08:52.860 People.
02:08:53.860 Have.
02:08:54.860 That.
02:08:55.860 So.
02:08:56.860 The rest.
02:08:57.860 In.
02:08:58.860 Some.
02:08:59.860 Domains.
02:09:00.860 Like.
02:09:01.860 We.
02:09:02.860 We're.
02:09:03.860 Not.
02:09:04.860 To be.
02:09:05.860 To be.
02:09:06.860 To be.
02:09:07.860 To be.
02:09:08.860 Okay.
02:09:09.860 To be.
02:09:10.860 To be.
02:09:11.860 To be.
02:09:12.860 To be.
02:09:13.860 To be.
02:09:14.860 Kind of.
02:09:15.860 Happy.
02:09:16.860 Like.
02:09:17.860 Maybe.
02:09:18.860 You.
02:09:19.860 Would love.
02:09:20.860 To sing.
02:09:21.860 But.
02:09:22.860 I can't.
02:09:23.860 Neither.
02:09:24.860 Can Eric.
02:09:25.860 Despite.
02:09:26.860 His.
02:09:27.860 Attempts.
02:09:28.860 And.
02:09:29.860 It's okay.
02:09:30.860 So.
02:09:31.860 Like.
02:09:32.860 You know.
02:09:33.860 Because.
02:09:34.860 It's a story.
02:09:35.860 Of.
02:09:36.860 Primordial.
02:09:37.860 Jealousy.
02:09:38.860 The.
02:09:39.860 Jealousy.
02:09:40.860 About.
02:09:41.860 The.
02:09:42.860 More.
02:09:43.860 Favored.
02:09:44.860 Than.
02:09:45.860 We are.
02:09:46.860 Maybe.
02:09:47.860 We can.
02:09:48.860 Benefit.
02:09:49.860 As.
02:09:50.860 A.
02:09:51.860 Consequence.
02:09:52.860 Maybe.
02:09:53.860 We're.
02:09:54.860 Jealousy.
02:09:55.860 That.
02:09:56.860 They.
02:09:57.860 Have.
02:09:58.860 What.
02:09:59.860 We.
02:10:00.860 Don't.
02:10:01.860 Have.
02:10:02.860 But.
02:10:03.860 Maybe.
02:10:04.860 If.
02:10:05.860 There.
02:10:06.860 Maybe.
02:10:07.860 Inequality.
02:10:08.860 Is.
02:10:09.860 Is.
02:10:10.860 For.
02:10:11.860 Production.
02:10:12.860 Of.
02:10:13.860 Wealth.
02:10:14.860 And.
02:10:15.860 That's.
02:10:16.860 Another.
02:10:17.860 Defense.
02:10:18.860 Of.
02:10:19.860 The.
02:10:20.860 West.
02:10:21.860 We.
02:10:22.860 Produced.
02:10:23.860 Inequality.
02:10:24.860 And.
02:10:25.860 Every.
02:10:26.860 System.
02:10:27.860 Produces.
02:10:28.860 Hierarchies.
02:10:29.860 That.
02:10:30.860 Also.
02:10:31.860 Make.
02:10:32.860 Poor.
02:10:33.860 People.
02:10:34.860 Rich.
02:10:35.860 And.
02:10:36.860 That's.
02:10:37.860 Pretty.
02:10:38.860 Damn.
02:10:39.860 Good.
02:10:40.860 You know.
02:10:41.860 I've been reading all these books.
02:10:42.860 Like.
02:10:43.860 Steven Pinker's book.
02:10:44.860 Enlightenment.
02:10:45.860 Now.
02:10:46.860 Hans Rosling wrote a book.
02:10:47.860 Called.
02:10:48.860 Fat.
02:10:49.860 I don't remember the name of it exactly.
02:10:50.860 It doesn't matter.
02:10:51.860 It's.
02:10:52.860 Hans Rosling.
02:10:53.860 He's a very smart guy.
02:10:54.860 And.
02:10:55.860 There's about six books like this right now.
02:10:56.860 And.
02:10:57.860 What they're doing is.
02:10:58.860 They're documenting an economic miracle.
02:10:59.860 That's sort of occurring under people's noses.
02:11:00.860 No one knows about this.
02:11:01.860 You know.
02:11:02.860 In 2000 and 2012.
02:11:03.860 The rate.
02:11:04.860 The rate.
02:11:05.860 The rate of.
02:11:06.860 The level of absolute poverty in the world.
02:11:08.860 Fell by 50%.
02:11:09.860 Now.
02:11:10.860 It was pretty absolute poverty.
02:11:11.860 I think.
02:11:12.860 UN defined absolute poverty.
02:11:13.860 As living on less than a dollar ninety.
02:11:15.860 A day.
02:11:16.860 In.
02:11:17.860 Two thousand and five dollars.
02:11:18.860 Something like that.
02:11:19.860 So.
02:11:20.860 Pretty dismal.
02:11:21.860 And so.
02:11:22.860 You know.
02:11:23.860 You could be cynical.
02:11:24.860 And say.
02:11:25.860 I am poor.
02:11:26.860 It's like.
02:11:27.860 Yeah.
02:11:28.860 But they're not as poor as they were.
02:11:29.860 And.
02:11:30.860 And the UN set as a goal.
02:11:31.860 Between 2000 and 2015.
02:11:33.860 The halving of absolute poverty.
02:11:35.860 Across the world.
02:11:36.860 And we hit it three years ahead of schedule.
02:11:38.860 It's like.
02:11:39.860 That wasn't the New York Times headline.
02:11:40.860 It should have been the New York Times headline.
02:11:42.860 For like a year.
02:11:43.860 And everybody should have been running around.
02:11:45.860 Patting themselves on the back.
02:11:46.860 Right.
02:11:47.860 And.
02:11:48.860 The UN.
02:11:49.860 Which is.
02:11:50.860 A pessimistic organization.
02:11:51.860 Apart from it's other sins.
02:11:53.860 Has also.
02:11:54.860 Has also projected.
02:11:56.860 This is their projection.
02:11:57.860 By the year 2030.
02:11:58.860 We'll have conquered abject poverty.
02:12:00.860 By that definition.
02:12:01.860 It'll be gone.
02:12:02.860 And so.
02:12:03.860 That twelve year period.
02:12:04.860 From 2000 to 2012.
02:12:05.860 Is the fastest.
02:12:06.860 Growing.
02:12:07.860 That was.
02:12:08.860 That was the most rapid economic miracle.
02:12:10.860 In human history.
02:12:11.860 By a huge margin.
02:12:12.860 And I think.
02:12:13.860 It was partially a consequence.
02:12:14.860 It was a delayed consequence.
02:12:15.860 Of the fact.
02:12:16.860 That the cold war.
02:12:17.860 Came to an end.
02:12:18.860 In 1989.
02:12:19.860 It's like.
02:12:20.860 So.
02:12:21.860 We finally got to the place.
02:12:22.860 Between 2000 and 2012.
02:12:23.860 Where many.
02:12:24.860 Developing countries.
02:12:25.860 Weren't doing.
02:12:26.860 Absolutely.
02:12:27.860 Pathologically.
02:12:28.860 Destructive things.
02:12:29.860 With their economy.
02:12:30.860 They were letting.
02:12:31.860 Free market.
02:12:32.860 Western.
02:12:33.860 Notions of.
02:12:34.860 Of economics.
02:12:35.860 And personal sovereignty.
02:12:36.860 Creep into their economic systems.
02:12:38.860 And the consequence of that.
02:12:39.860 Was that.
02:12:40.860 Way fewer people.
02:12:41.860 Were dying of starvation.
02:12:42.860 And so.
02:12:43.860 That's a big deal.
02:12:44.860 And.
02:12:45.860 It's so interesting.
02:12:46.860 To me.
02:12:47.860 To see.
02:12:48.860 People.
02:12:49.860 And it's.
02:12:50.860 It's happening.
02:12:51.860 It's very interesting.
02:12:52.860 To read these books.
02:12:53.860 Because it's happening.
02:12:54.860 In multiple dimensions.
02:12:55.860 You know.
02:12:56.860 So.
02:12:57.860 The child mortality rate.
02:12:58.860 In Africa.
02:12:59.860 Is now.
02:13:00.860 The same.
02:13:01.860 As the child mortality rate.
02:13:02.860 Was in Europe.
02:13:03.860 In 1952.
02:13:04.860 You know.
02:13:05.860 That's again.
02:13:06.860 That's all.
02:13:07.860 All within the span.
02:13:08.860 Of one lifetime.
02:13:09.860 It's absolutely amazing.
02:13:10.860 You know.
02:13:11.860 And.
02:13:12.860 The birth rates.
02:13:13.860 Are plummeting.
02:13:14.860 All around the world.
02:13:15.860 So.
02:13:16.860 It doesn't look like.
02:13:17.860 We're going to.
02:13:18.860 Overpopulate.
02:13:19.860 The planet.
02:13:20.860 We're going to peak out.
02:13:21.860 At about 9 billion.
02:13:22.860 It seems to me.
02:13:23.860 Likely.
02:13:24.860 At a hundred years.
02:13:25.860 The problem will be.
02:13:26.860 That there aren't.
02:13:27.860 Enough people on the planet.
02:13:28.860 I think.
02:13:29.860 That's a highly probable.
02:13:30.860 You know.
02:13:31.860 Barring.
02:13:32.860 Absolute.
02:13:33.860 A hundred years ago.
02:13:34.860 So.
02:13:35.860 That's pretty cool.
02:13:36.860 If you get.
02:13:37.860 Gross domestic product.
02:13:38.860 Up to.
02:13:39.860 Five thousand dollars.
02:13:40.860 A year.
02:13:41.860 Environmental.
02:13:42.860 Degradation.
02:13:43.860 Decreases.
02:13:44.860 So.
02:13:45.860 There's.
02:13:46.860 Isn't that cool.
02:13:47.860 Think about.
02:13:48.860 What that means.
02:13:49.860 Make people rich.
02:13:50.860 And the planet improves.
02:13:51.860 Wouldn't that be something.
02:13:52.860 We could have our cake.
02:13:53.860 And eat it too.
02:13:54.860 Wouldn't that be something.
02:14:01.860 Alright.
02:14:02.860 That was a more incoherent.
02:14:04.860 Lecture.
02:14:05.860 Than I generally deliver.
02:14:06.860 But I wanted to walk through.
02:14:07.860 Some of the things.
02:14:08.860 That I've been thinking about.
02:14:09.860 See.
02:14:10.860 See if I can pull them together.
02:14:11.860 You know.
02:14:12.860 I guess I'll close with this.
02:14:13.860 This is sort of what ties it together.
02:14:14.860 See.
02:14:15.860 I think that what happens.
02:14:18.860 As we evolve our hierarchies.
02:14:21.860 We evolve these hierarchies of competence.
02:14:23.860 And then we look at.
02:14:25.860 Where they're pointing.
02:14:26.860 And.
02:14:27.860 You could think.
02:14:28.860 Well maybe they're pointing.
02:14:29.860 Toward material wealth.
02:14:30.860 And maybe they're pointing towards status.
02:14:32.860 And maybe they're.
02:14:33.860 Pointing towards exploitation.
02:14:34.860 And maybe they're pointing towards power.
02:14:36.860 But I don't think.
02:14:37.860 That that's what they're pointing to.
02:14:39.860 And I think this is how the religious conception.
02:14:41.860 Emerges from.
02:14:42.860 The process of hierarchical value.
02:14:45.860 Think.
02:14:46.860 Well.
02:14:47.860 What is it that.
02:14:48.860 Produces success.
02:14:49.860 In a highly functional hierarchy.
02:14:51.860 It's not dominance.
02:14:52.860 And it's not power.
02:14:53.860 And it's not exploitation.
02:14:54.860 It's none of that.
02:14:55.860 It's something much more sophisticated.
02:14:57.860 It's something like.
02:14:58.860 I think part of it's truth.
02:15:00.860 I think that if you want to move forward in life properly.
02:15:02.860 One of the best things that you can possibly do.
02:15:04.860 To master the hierarchy.
02:15:06.860 And to attain the things of value.
02:15:07.860 Is to tell the truth.
02:15:08.860 And I think that.
02:15:10.860 What the hierarchy points to.
02:15:11.860 Is not.
02:15:12.860 Things of value.
02:15:13.860 But a way of being.
02:15:15.860 That produces things of value.
02:15:17.860 And I think that.
02:15:18.860 What the hierarchy points to.
02:15:19.860 When it's properly constructed.
02:15:21.860 Is the ultimate.
02:15:22.860 Mode of being.
02:15:23.860 That produces things of value.
02:15:24.860 And that.
02:15:25.860 And.
02:15:26.860 Because you think.
02:15:27.860 Well.
02:15:28.860 That's kind of the people.
02:15:29.860 That you admire.
02:15:30.860 Right.
02:15:31.860 Maybe.
02:15:32.860 Maybe.
02:15:33.860 You're.
02:15:34.860 You're.
02:15:35.860 You're thinking.
02:15:36.860 In a relatively unsophisticated manner.
02:15:37.860 All you're doing.
02:15:38.860 Is admiring someone.
02:15:39.860 Who has excess material wealth.
02:15:40.860 But that isn't really.
02:15:41.860 What you want and admire.
02:15:42.860 If you think about.
02:15:43.860 What you want for yourself.
02:15:44.860 If you had a real life.
02:15:45.860 You know.
02:15:46.860 You sort of want to be healthy.
02:15:47.860 Hopefully.
02:15:48.860 Also healthy.
02:15:49.860 That would be helpful.
02:15:50.860 And.
02:15:51.860 Maybe you have a family.
02:15:52.860 And you take care of them.
02:15:53.860 And they're doing well.
02:15:54.860 And maybe you do that in a way.
02:15:55.860 So that the community functions well.
02:15:56.860 And.
02:15:57.860 Maybe you have some long term visions.
02:15:58.860 To improve.
02:15:59.860 To improve.
02:16:00.860 The structure of.
02:16:01.860 Reality.
02:16:02.860 And to.
02:16:03.860 And to.
02:16:04.860 Work against suffering.
02:16:05.860 And to constrain malevolence.
02:16:06.860 So that you're with an ethical framework.
02:16:07.860 And so that you're a good person.
02:16:09.860 And you're living a good life.
02:16:10.860 And my suspicions.
02:16:11.860 Are.
02:16:12.860 Is that.
02:16:13.860 The.
02:16:14.860 The image.
02:16:15.860 That's at the center.
02:16:16.860 Of the hierarchies.
02:16:17.860 We produce.
02:16:18.860 Is actually.
02:16:19.860 Something like that.
02:16:20.860 It's something like.
02:16:21.860 An image of a transcendent.
02:16:22.860 Mode of being.
02:16:23.860 And I thought for a long time.
02:16:24.860 That the.
02:16:25.860 The image of the redeemer.
02:16:26.860 The hero.
02:16:27.860 And that's what comes out of the fool.
02:16:28.860 Let's say.
02:16:29.860 The image of the redeemer.
02:16:30.860 Is an image.
02:16:31.860 That.
02:16:32.860 Is.
02:16:33.860 Slightly presence.
02:16:34.860 In the middle of a hierarchy.
02:16:35.860 It's like.
02:16:36.860 Cause the hierarchy is always saying.
02:16:37.860 Here's how.
02:16:38.860 Here's what you should be.
02:16:39.860 Here's what you should be.
02:16:40.860 Here's the ideal.
02:16:41.860 Towards which you should strive.
02:16:42.860 And that's.
02:16:43.860 That's not.
02:16:44.860 Tyrant.
02:16:45.860 It's not that.
02:16:46.860 And I think we make a big mistake.
02:16:48.860 By looking at our culture.
02:16:49.860 Our.
02:16:50.860 Our functional.
02:16:51.860 Our highly functional culture.
02:16:52.860 That's doing good things.
02:16:53.860 And preventing starvation.
02:16:54.860 And.
02:16:55.860 And.
02:16:56.860 And lifting people out of poverty.
02:16:57.860 And providing people with.
02:16:58.860 The means to have a decent life.
02:16:59.860 I think we make a huge mistake.
02:17:00.860 By looking at that.
02:17:01.860 And say.
02:17:02.860 It's like, no it's not. There's something absolutely fundamental, truly ethical, right at its core.
02:17:07.860 Something that has to do with the proper aim and something that has to do with fair play.
02:17:11.860 And something that has to do with the desire to set the world straight and to ameliorate suffering.
02:17:16.860 And that's really at its core. This is partly why I've been arguing about religion with Sam Harris.
02:17:21.860 Because one of the things I think, you know, in the West we formulated the idea of the divine individual.
02:17:27.860 You see that most explicitly in Christianity. Because in Christianity at the core there is a divine individual.
02:17:35.860 And I think about that psychologically. It's an image.
02:17:37.860 It's like that's the image of the perfect thing that you should strive to be.
02:17:42.860 And the idea is that what you should strive to be is the perfect individual that you could be.
02:17:47.860 And is that divine? It's like, well it's the highest value.
02:17:51.860 That's a good definition of what constitutes divine. Even if you just keep it secular.
02:17:56.860 You know, you say, what's the best that mortal primates like us can manage?
02:18:00.860 It's still the highest value.
02:18:02.860 And I think that we forget that at our peril.
02:18:04.860 We've extracted out this image over thousands of years.
02:18:07.860 Of what we all could be.
02:18:09.860 And to the degree that our hierarchies reflect that.
02:18:12.860 And we manifest that in our own life.
02:18:14.860 Then we can actually address the problems that we have.
02:18:18.860 The genuine problems we have.
02:18:20.860 We can ameliorate suffering. We can constrain malevolence.
02:18:23.860 We can do that practically. So we can actually make things better in the world.
02:18:26.860 Just like you make things better when you feed your children.
02:18:29.860 But it also works psychologically.
02:18:31.860 Because if you take on the burden of addressing suffering.
02:18:34.860 You take on those problems as if they're your own.
02:18:37.860 Well then you can start to solve them.
02:18:39.860 And then your life also has meaning.
02:18:41.860 And so it's so interesting.
02:18:43.860 You win in that way even if you lose.
02:18:45.860 Even if you can't solve the problem.
02:18:47.860 The fact that you're striving to solve a problem.
02:18:50.860 That's really worth solving.
02:18:52.860 Actually solves the problem to some degree.
02:18:54.860 Because that imbues your life with sufficient meaning.
02:18:56.860 So that you can tolerate the suffering that's an intrinsic part of it.
02:18:59.860 And so you win either way.
02:19:01.860 And I think that one of the things I learned from reading Jung.
02:19:04.860 Is that we have to wake up to these sorts of things.
02:19:07.860 Is that we're unconscious in our religious presuppositions.
02:19:10.860 For our entire evolutionary history.
02:19:12.860 We didn't know what we were dreaming.
02:19:14.860 And we have to wake up and realize it.
02:19:16.860 And that's what we were dreaming.
02:19:18.860 We're dreaming up the perfect individual.
02:19:21.860 That's a ghostly image inside the hierarchy.
02:19:25.860 That's reflected.
02:19:27.860 It's reflected in what people want you to be.
02:19:30.860 Because everyone's always telling you what you should be.
02:19:32.860 You know they're telling you with their gaze.
02:19:34.860 They're telling you with their glance.
02:19:36.860 They're telling you with their rewards.
02:19:37.860 And their subtle punishments.
02:19:38.860 They're trying to call forward out of you that ideal.
02:19:42.860 And that ideal is the identification of the ideal.
02:19:46.860 That I think we got right in the West.
02:19:48.860 The sovereign individual.
02:19:49.860 The sovereign individual with the responsibility to take on the suffering of the world.
02:19:53.860 As if it's his or her true responsibility.
02:19:58.860 And to address evil in the same manner.
02:20:00.860 I think that's how it is.
02:20:02.860 I think we need to know that.
02:20:04.860 And I think that's where I'll stop.
02:20:06.860 Thank you very much.
02:20:17.860 Long Island man, these are my people.
02:20:19.860 What do you think?
02:20:23.860 It's been pretty good.
02:20:27.860 It's been pretty good.
02:20:28.860 It's a nice friendly theater.
02:20:30.860 And the crowd seems present.
02:20:34.860 So, yeah.
02:20:36.860 How's it going for you?
02:20:37.860 Pretty good.
02:20:38.860 Yeah?
02:20:39.860 Not bad.
02:20:40.860 No one is a prophet in his own land, you know.
02:20:42.860 Good night, everybody.
02:20:43.860 All right, Peterson.
02:20:44.860 They lined up the good questions, my people.
02:20:45.860 Oh, okay, okay.
02:20:46.860 In my land.
02:20:47.860 Jordan.
02:20:48.860 When's the last time you got drunk?
02:20:49.860 It's right there.
02:20:50.860 Oh, and what was the sauce?
02:20:51.860 Okay, see?
02:20:52.860 I didn't make it up.
02:20:53.860 That's the guy right there.
02:20:54.860 So, I have this friend named Greg Hurwitz.
02:20:55.860 And I just did a video with him.
02:20:57.860 I think it was called Invitation to the Intellectual Dark Web.
02:20:59.860 And one of the things Greg is doing, which I think is really cool, is he's...
02:21:00.860 This is really cool, and it's weird.
02:21:01.860 He thinks it's weird, too.
02:21:02.860 But it seems to be working.
02:21:03.860 He's...
02:21:04.860 But it seems to be working.
02:21:12.860 He has the opportunity to train political candidates for the diaspora.
02:21:17.860 On 1 сд it was Ellerung too, in a few months where I see smoke-carri però, won't it else.
02:21:20.860 Oh, what was the sauce?
02:21:21.860 OK, see?
02:21:22.860 I didn't make it up.
02:21:23.860 That's the guy right there.
02:21:24.860 So, I have this friend named Greg Hurwitz.
02:21:28.860 And I just did a video with him.
02:21:29.860 I think it was called Invitation to the Intellectual Dark Web.
02:21:32.860 political candidates for the Democratic Party.
02:21:35.860 And so he's trained a whole bunch of them who are running in different elections.
02:21:39.860 And getting them to abandon identity politics.
02:21:43.860 And he's trying to restructure the central message of the Democratic Party.
02:21:47.860 And he's actually producing ads. He's got permission.
02:21:50.860 Not only to do this from major players in the Democratic Party.
02:21:56.860 But also to talk about it.
02:21:58.860 Which is really, well who knows, it's as strange as having Eric play the harmonica on stage here.
02:22:03.860 Except on a much bigger scale.
02:22:05.860 And so I've known Greg for a long time.
02:22:08.860 He was a student of mine at Harvard years and years ago.
02:22:11.860 He's a very smart guy.
02:22:13.860 And he writes thrillers and comic books too.
02:22:16.860 He wrote Batman and Wolverine.
02:22:18.860 And he wrote the origin story for the penguin.
02:22:20.860 And so he's a multi-talented guy.
02:22:24.860 And he writes these thrillers.
02:22:27.860 And he wrote this recent series.
02:22:29.860 It started with a book called Orphan X.
02:22:31.860 And it's about this kind of superhero like guy named Evan Smoke.
02:22:36.860 And he drinks expensive vodka of various sorts.
02:22:40.860 And Greg just thought that would be an interesting detail in the book.
02:22:43.860 And so he has him drink these spectacularly expensive and high-end distillery.
02:22:49.860 Distillery, you know, private distillery, small private distillery vodkas.
02:22:53.860 And the companies that make the vodkas turned out to be thrilled about it.
02:22:57.860 Now you could be cynical and say that he knew that would happen.
02:22:59.860 But he didn't.
02:23:00.860 But it did happen.
02:23:02.860 And so now he's like swamped with high-end vodka.
02:23:05.860 And so was I.
02:23:07.860 Yeah.
02:23:08.860 Yeah.
02:23:09.860 And it was really fun.
02:23:10.860 It was really fun.
02:23:12.860 I paid for it dreadfully.
02:23:14.860 But, but, but, and that was about a year ago.
02:23:17.860 And so, and you know, luckily I trust him a lot.
02:23:21.860 So, because I'm not in a situation where I can afford to really drink anything.
02:23:26.860 Because I can't say anything that I shouldn't say.
02:23:29.860 And you know what happens when you get drunk.
02:23:30.860 And you get to say things you shouldn't say.
02:23:32.860 Because everyone knows how much fun that is.
02:23:34.860 So, so it was maybe a year and a half ago.
02:23:37.860 And it was expensive vodka.
02:23:39.860 So that's the story of that.
02:23:42.860 I would love to.
02:23:45.860 But, but won't.
02:23:48.860 Did Sam Harris move you on any specific issue during your debates?
02:23:55.860 Look, it's not like I don't understand and appreciate Sam's argument.
02:24:00.860 I've worked as a scientist for 30 years.
02:24:03.860 You know, so it's not like everything he says doesn't fill me with doubt.
02:24:09.860 I'm not stupid.
02:24:12.860 You know, and the, like what Sam, Sam is a mouthpiece for the rationalist,
02:24:17.860 challenge to the traditional religious world view.
02:24:22.860 And he's an effective mouthpiece.
02:24:24.860 And that's not a denigration by the way.
02:24:27.860 Because we're all mouthpieces to some degree for ideas that have lengthy developmental histories.
02:24:32.860 And there's no doubt that the materialist viewpoint.
02:24:37.860 Mounts an insanely potent challenge to even the idea that life is intrinsically meaningful.
02:24:45.860 But, and it's not like that doesn't, that I, that doesn't affect me.
02:24:54.860 You know, people say, well do you believe in God?
02:24:56.860 Which is a question I hate.
02:24:58.860 It's like, oh yes, I'm absolutely certain.
02:25:00.860 It's like, good, you find someone who's absolutely certain.
02:25:03.860 You're not going to find anyone who's absolutely certain.
02:25:06.860 Because that's just what it's like to be human.
02:25:09.860 You know, and so, did he move me?
02:25:13.860 It's like, hopefully I made my argument sharper.
02:25:19.860 Because, as powerful as his position is, it's certainly not complete.
02:25:26.860 Because we don't know everything about the world.
02:25:29.860 And I think it's wrong.
02:25:31.860 And I think the science indicates that it's wrong.
02:25:35.860 So, for example, I laid this out pretty carefully in 12 rules for life.
02:25:39.860 But even more in maps of meaning.
02:25:41.860 We have an instinct for meaning.
02:25:43.860 It's based in what the Russian neuropsychologist called the orienting reflex.
02:25:47.860 And it's a really deep reflex.
02:25:49.860 It goes all the way.
02:25:50.860 It's represented at multiple levels in your brain.
02:25:52.860 It goes all the way down to the bottom.
02:25:54.860 It's very, very old.
02:25:56.860 And out of that springs the apprehension of meaning.
02:26:01.860 And I believe that that is a valid guide to being.
02:26:05.860 I believe that's true.
02:26:07.860 And I believe that that valid guide to meaning is expressed as clearly as we can express it.
02:26:13.860 In our most profound archetypal stories.
02:26:17.860 And I think that if Sam knew the science.
02:26:20.860 Which he doesn't.
02:26:22.860 Then he'd know that.
02:26:24.860 You know.
02:26:25.860 Because he presents himself as a neuroscientist.
02:26:27.860 On rather thin ground.
02:26:30.860 So.
02:26:32.860 It isn't exactly that he moved me.
02:26:35.860 I wouldn't say.
02:26:36.860 Although I had to sharpen my arguments in relationship.
02:26:38.860 Because of the debates.
02:26:40.860 But it's certainly the case that that materialist atheist framework is incredibly potent.
02:26:46.860 You know.
02:26:47.860 I've been trying to figure out how to deal with that.
02:26:49.860 Especially because.
02:26:50.860 You see.
02:26:51.860 I knew that.
02:26:52.860 I learned.
02:26:53.860 That Nietzsche's criticism was correct.
02:26:55.860 Not Dostoevsky as well.
02:26:57.860 It leads to nihilism.
02:27:00.860 And nihilism leads to hell.
02:27:03.860 And anything that takes you to hell is wrong.
02:27:06.860 Now why it's wrong.
02:27:08.860 And how it's wrong.
02:27:09.860 That's a very difficult question.
02:27:11.860 But.
02:27:12.860 But I think it's wrong.
02:27:16.860 So.
02:27:17.860 And hopefully I'm better at arguing for that.
02:27:20.860 Than I was a month and a half ago.
02:27:21.860 We'll see.
02:27:22.860 We'll see.
02:27:23.860 I wish you guys could all experience what it's like to have Jordan staring at you directly in the eyes.
02:27:35.860 When he's two feet away from you saying that.
02:27:39.860 Although this is not legal.
02:27:42.860 That sounds fun.
02:27:44.860 Will you please move to America.
02:27:47.860 And run for president of the United States.
02:27:55.860 Do you know what that job does to people?
02:27:58.860 Did you see what happened to Obama?
02:28:00.860 Christ.
02:28:01.860 He aged like 20 years.
02:28:02.860 And during his time in office.
02:28:04.860 It's like it's an impossible job.
02:28:05.860 So.
02:28:06.860 I.
02:28:07.860 You know.
02:28:08.860 I think about Trump.
02:28:09.860 I think.
02:28:10.860 How old is he?
02:28:11.860 Jesus.
02:28:12.860 You want to be doing that when you're 72?
02:28:14.860 You think.
02:28:15.860 Oh.
02:28:16.860 Well.
02:28:17.860 He gets to be president.
02:28:18.860 It's like.
02:28:19.860 Oh.
02:28:20.860 Yeah.
02:28:21.860 Man.
02:28:22.860 What a job that is.
02:28:23.860 You know.
02:28:24.860 Every single thing you do is fatal.
02:28:25.860 And it's.
02:28:26.860 And.
02:28:27.860 And.
02:28:28.860 That happens like 300 times a day.
02:28:29.860 It's.
02:28:30.860 It's.
02:28:31.860 It's.
02:28:32.860 It's a.
02:28:33.860 It's a hell of a job.
02:28:34.860 Be nice to have a little more sympathy for the people who.
02:28:35.860 Who have it.
02:28:36.860 So.
02:28:37.860 So.
02:28:38.860 No.
02:28:39.860 Because it's illegal.
02:28:40.860 It's a good question in Canada.
02:28:41.860 You know.
02:28:42.860 If I ever would consider.
02:28:43.860 Political office.
02:28:44.860 And.
02:28:45.860 I've considered it a lot.
02:28:47.860 But.
02:28:48.860 Every time I.
02:28:49.860 No.
02:28:50.860 I don't think so.
02:28:51.860 I think that.
02:28:52.860 I think that.
02:28:53.860 I'm pretty sure if Trudeau can do it.
02:28:54.860 You can do it.
02:28:55.860 Come on.
02:29:02.860 I think.
02:29:03.860 I think.
02:29:04.860 I'm more suited to the role of evil advisor.
02:29:06.860 Sitting behind the king whispering in his ear.
02:29:08.860 Here.
02:29:11.860 Court jester.
02:29:12.860 Okay.
02:29:13.860 What advice would you have.
02:29:16.860 For young parents.
02:29:18.860 Oh.
02:29:19.860 Well.
02:29:20.860 That's rule five.
02:29:21.860 Right.
02:29:22.860 Don't let your children do anything that makes you dislike them.
02:29:25.860 So.
02:29:26.860 Well.
02:29:27.860 Well.
02:29:28.860 I'll tell you a little story.
02:29:30.860 This is kind of a good one.
02:29:31.860 So.
02:29:32.860 My daughter.
02:29:33.860 Was just.
02:29:34.860 She has a baby.
02:29:35.860 Thirteen months old.
02:29:36.860 Named Scarlet.
02:29:37.860 And.
02:29:38.860 She's trying to.
02:29:39.860 She was trying to crib train Scarlet last week.
02:29:40.860 To get her to go to sleep.
02:29:42.860 And.
02:29:43.860 Uh.
02:29:44.860 It's hard.
02:29:45.860 You know.
02:29:46.860 Because.
02:29:47.860 When you have a little baby.
02:29:48.860 Very little baby.
02:29:49.860 Thing about little babies.
02:29:50.860 Say under six months.
02:29:51.860 Is they're always right.
02:29:52.860 And.
02:29:53.860 Everyone else is always wrong.
02:29:54.860 So.
02:29:55.860 If your baby is crying.
02:29:56.860 Then that's your problem.
02:29:57.860 And you should do something about it.
02:29:58.860 Then you don't get to blame the baby.
02:29:59.860 The baby is.
02:30:00.860 Completely.
02:30:01.860 100% innocent.
02:30:02.860 But.
02:30:03.860 Then as the baby gets older.
02:30:04.860 And.
02:30:05.860 Turns into.
02:30:06.860 An older person.
02:30:07.860 Then.
02:30:08.860 You know.
02:30:09.860 That gradually.
02:30:10.860 They gradually.
02:30:11.860 Can be.
02:30:12.860 Attributed.
02:30:13.860 More.
02:30:14.860 Really.
02:30:15.860 A little baby.
02:30:16.860 A little baby.
02:30:17.860 Very little baby.
02:30:18.860 A little baby.
02:30:19.860 Very little baby.
02:30:20.860 Thing about little.
02:30:21.860 Babies.
02:30:22.860 Say under six months.
02:30:23.860 Is they're always right.
02:30:24.860 Responsibility.
02:30:25.860 And.
02:30:26.860 And take on more responsibility.
02:30:27.860 And so.
02:30:28.860 You know.
02:30:29.860 Scarlett's 13 months.
02:30:30.860 And it's time for her to.
02:30:31.860 Learn to go to sleep in a crib.
02:30:33.860 And that's not very pleasant.
02:30:35.860 So.
02:30:36.860 And it sort of coincided.
02:30:37.860 With weaning as well.
02:30:38.860 So it's quite a bit of disruption.
02:30:39.860 In her life.
02:30:40.860 And so.
02:30:41.860 They put her in the crib.
02:30:43.860 And she wasn't very happy about that.
02:30:45.860 She's making.
02:30:46.860 Doing a lot of squawking.
02:30:47.860 And.
02:30:48.860 That's very.
02:30:49.860 Painful.
02:30:50.860 For a mother.
02:30:51.860 Who's been.
02:30:52.860 Accustomed to.
02:30:53.860 Responding.
02:30:54.860 To the child's.
02:30:55.860 Every.
02:30:56.860 Demand.
02:30:57.860 On demand.
02:30:58.860 And so.
02:30:59.860 We had quite a lengthy discussion.
02:31:00.860 About that.
02:31:01.860 This week.
02:31:02.860 And I said.
02:31:03.860 Leave her in her crib.
02:31:05.860 Put the video monitor on her.
02:31:07.860 So you can see.
02:31:08.860 That she's okay.
02:31:09.860 And tough it out.
02:31:10.860 And tough it out.
02:31:12.860 And it's going to be painful.
02:31:14.860 But if you do it.
02:31:16.860 What you'll see.
02:31:18.860 Is that.
02:31:19.860 Each night.
02:31:20.860 The time that she spends crying.
02:31:22.860 Will diminish very rapidly.
02:31:24.860 And if.
02:31:25.860 You can tough it out for a week.
02:31:26.860 She'll go to sleep when you put her in the crib.
02:31:29.860 And she'll stay asleep at night.
02:31:30.860 And you'll have solved.
02:31:31.860 The problem of putting your child to bed.
02:31:33.860 Which is an immense problem.
02:31:36.860 And that.
02:31:37.860 Three days of misery.
02:31:38.860 Will give you and her.
02:31:40.860 Ten years of peace.
02:31:42.860 But you have to stick it out.
02:31:45.860 Now.
02:31:46.860 Here's.
02:31:47.860 Here's why.
02:31:48.860 So.
02:31:49.860 If you want to ruin your child.
02:31:50.860 Here.
02:31:51.860 Here's how.
02:31:52.860 Okay.
02:31:53.860 So.
02:31:54.860 I'm a behavioral psychologist.
02:31:55.860 So I actually know how to do this.
02:31:57.860 You.
02:31:58.860 You treat your child.
02:31:59.860 As if.
02:32:00.860 He or she.
02:32:01.860 Is a slot machine.
02:32:02.860 Actually.
02:32:03.860 You treat you.
02:32:04.860 Like you're the slot machine.
02:32:05.860 For your child.
02:32:06.860 Now.
02:32:07.860 Slot machines.
02:32:08.860 Here's why slot machines.
02:32:09.860 Are.
02:32:10.860 Vicious.
02:32:11.860 I had an idea.
02:32:12.860 Just.
02:32:13.860 Just so you know.
02:32:14.860 This has to do with.
02:32:15.860 Being the evil advisor.
02:32:16.860 To the king.
02:32:17.860 I figured out a way.
02:32:18.860 To make slot machines.
02:32:19.860 Even more addictive.
02:32:20.860 I think.
02:32:21.860 I could have made a billion dollars.
02:32:22.860 With that idea.
02:32:23.860 But I never told anybody.
02:32:24.860 About it.
02:32:25.860 So.
02:32:26.860 Anyways.
02:32:27.860 I'm not telling you.
02:32:28.860 Either.
02:32:29.860 So.
02:32:30.860 So anyways.
02:32:31.860 Here.
02:32:32.860 Here's.
02:32:33.860 Here's how you.
02:32:34.860 Here's how you ruin your child.
02:32:35.860 If you want to.
02:32:36.860 So.
02:32:37.860 Put them to bed.
02:32:38.860 And.
02:32:39.860 Let them cry.
02:32:40.860 When they cry for a while.
02:32:41.860 Go in there.
02:32:42.860 And.
02:32:43.860 Randomly.
02:32:44.860 Interact with them.
02:32:45.860 And then.
02:32:46.860 Leave.
02:32:47.860 And then.
02:32:48.860 After they cry.
02:32:49.860 For some random period of time.
02:32:50.860 And you can't stand it anymore.
02:32:51.860 Then.
02:32:52.860 Go back in there.
02:32:53.860 And randomly.
02:32:54.860 Interact with them again.
02:32:55.860 For a month.
02:32:56.860 For a month.
02:32:57.860 Okay.
02:32:58.860 And then.
02:32:59.860 What you've done.
02:33:00.860 Is.
02:33:01.860 You've trained your child.
02:33:02.860 To be.
02:33:03.860 Insanely.
02:33:04.860 Persistent.
02:33:05.860 With their negative emotion.
02:33:06.860 Because that will.
02:33:07.860 Certainly.
02:33:08.860 Attract your attention.
02:33:09.860 And if you do that.
02:33:10.860 For a whole month.
02:33:11.860 And you vary the amounts of time.
02:33:12.860 Between.
02:33:13.860 The reward.
02:33:14.860 Which is you going in there.
02:33:15.860 Then you've also trained.
02:33:16.860 You've.
02:33:17.860 You've.
02:33:18.860 You've.
02:33:19.860 Cemented in the persistence.
02:33:20.860 So.
02:33:21.860 Imagine a slot machine.
02:33:22.860 Right?
02:33:23.860 Well.
02:33:24.860 It's addictive.
02:33:25.860 Because.
02:33:26.860 If you keep pulling on it's arm.
02:33:27.860 You will eventually win.
02:33:28.860 For sure.
02:33:29.860 But you can't tell when.
02:33:31.860 And so.
02:33:32.860 What a slot machine does.
02:33:33.860 Is reward you.
02:33:34.860 For insane persistence.
02:33:35.860 And.
02:33:36.860 It's set up there.
02:33:37.860 It's called a variable ratio.
02:33:38.860 Reinforcement schedule.
02:33:39.860 And.
02:33:40.860 The behaviorists figured out.
02:33:41.860 How to addict rats.
02:33:42.860 Like mad.
02:33:43.860 To behavior.
02:33:44.860 Using those reinforcement schedules.
02:33:45.860 And you can easily do that.
02:33:46.860 With children.
02:33:47.860 And you can easily do that.
02:33:48.860 With bedtime.
02:33:49.860 And then you get a child.
02:33:50.860 Who will not.
02:33:51.860 Go to bed.
02:33:52.860 And then you get to fight.
02:33:53.860 With that child.
02:33:54.860 For ten years.
02:33:55.860 And then you hate them.
02:33:57.860 Right?
02:33:58.860 So that's a very bad idea.
02:33:59.860 So don't do that.
02:34:00.860 That's my advice.
02:34:01.860 To your.
02:34:02.860 To new parents.
02:34:04.860 It's like.
02:34:05.860 There's things you have to do.
02:34:06.860 That you have to stick out.
02:34:08.860 And you know.
02:34:09.860 One thing you want to do.
02:34:10.860 With your child.
02:34:11.860 Well figure it out.
02:34:12.860 It's like.
02:34:13.860 Do you like your wife?
02:34:14.860 Maybe not.
02:34:15.860 Do you like your husband?
02:34:16.860 Maybe not.
02:34:17.860 If you do.
02:34:18.860 Then maybe you want to put your child to bed.
02:34:21.860 At like eight.
02:34:22.860 Because then you get to see your wife.
02:34:24.860 Or you get to see your husband.
02:34:26.860 Then your marriage doesn't fall apart.
02:34:27.860 And you don't hate each other.
02:34:28.860 And one of you doesn't have an affair.
02:34:29.860 And then your child doesn't have parents that divorce.
02:34:32.860 It's like.
02:34:33.860 So put your damn kid to bed.
02:34:35.860 And then.
02:34:36.860 Because then you won't hate them.
02:34:38.860 Right?
02:34:39.860 Right.
02:34:40.860 And don't think that you're so nice.
02:34:44.860 Because you're not.
02:34:45.860 You're horrible.
02:34:48.860 And if you're.
02:34:49.860 If you know you're horrible.
02:34:50.860 Then maybe you won't be horrible to your children.
02:34:53.860 See when I had kids.
02:34:54.860 I knew I was horrible.
02:34:55.860 And I thought.
02:34:56.860 I don't want to be horrible to my children.
02:34:59.860 Even though I'm horrible.
02:35:00.860 And so then I thought.
02:35:01.860 Well.
02:35:02.860 They better not make me angry.
02:35:03.860 Because then I'll be horrible.
02:35:05.860 And so then I thought.
02:35:06.860 Well.
02:35:07.860 I could do them a great favor.
02:35:08.860 By helping them not make me angry.
02:35:10.860 And it turned out.
02:35:11.860 And I have a sensible wife.
02:35:12.860 Thank God.
02:35:13.860 And.
02:35:14.860 You know.
02:35:15.860 I.
02:35:16.860 All of our disciplinary routines.
02:35:17.860 Were discussed between the two of us.
02:35:19.860 Which is another thing.
02:35:20.860 I'd really really recommend.
02:35:21.860 It's like.
02:35:22.860 You're stupid.
02:35:23.860 And so is your wife.
02:35:24.860 But you're stupid in different ways.
02:35:26.860 And so.
02:35:27.860 If you put your.
02:35:28.860 The two of you together.
02:35:29.860 Then you make one person.
02:35:30.860 Who's not fatally flawed.
02:35:32.860 If you're lucky.
02:35:33.860 And then that.
02:35:35.860 Child.
02:35:36.860 Can interact with that.
02:35:37.860 One person.
02:35:38.860 Who's not fatally flawed.
02:35:40.860 And hopefully.
02:35:41.860 You will be a reasonable.
02:35:42.860 Representative of society at large.
02:35:44.860 And then your child.
02:35:45.860 Can learn how to deal with you.
02:35:47.860 And.
02:35:48.860 In doing so.
02:35:49.860 Also learn to deal with.
02:35:50.860 All other people.
02:35:51.860 And that's what you're supposed to do.
02:35:52.860 As a parent.
02:35:53.860 And so.
02:35:54.860 The other thing.
02:35:55.860 I would recommend.
02:35:56.860 To.
02:35:57.860 To young parents.
02:35:58.860 Is.
02:35:59.860 Don't make too many rules.
02:36:00.860 Man.
02:36:01.860 Enforce.
02:36:02.860 The ones.
02:36:03.860 You make.
02:36:04.860 And get on the same page.
02:36:05.860 So that.
02:36:06.860 No matter which way.
02:36:07.860 Your child turns.
02:36:08.860 It's the same.
02:36:09.860 World.
02:36:10.860 Facing them.
02:36:11.860 To set you against each other.
02:36:12.860 So.
02:36:13.860 Of course.
02:36:14.860 They will.
02:36:15.860 Because they're curious.
02:36:16.860 It's like.
02:36:17.860 Well.
02:36:18.860 Can I do this.
02:36:19.860 Can I do this.
02:36:20.860 Can I do this.
02:36:21.860 If it works.
02:36:22.860 Then.
02:36:23.860 Yes.
02:36:24.860 I can do it.
02:36:25.860 For.
02:36:26.860 Putting your child.
02:36:27.860 In the crib.
02:36:28.860 To work itself out.
02:36:29.860 You know.
02:36:30.860 When kids learn.
02:36:31.860 To walk.
02:36:32.860 Under the tables.
02:36:33.860 And.
02:36:34.860 Every time.
02:36:35.860 They stand up.
02:36:36.860 Underneath the table.
02:36:37.860 They.
02:36:38.860 Whack their head.
02:36:39.860 And.
02:36:40.860 Like.
02:36:41.860 How many.
02:36:42.860 50 year olds.
02:36:43.860 Do you know.
02:36:44.860 That stand up.
02:36:45.860 Underneath tables.
02:36:46.860 And whack their heads.
02:36:47.860 It's like.
02:36:48.860 Zero.
02:36:49.860 Right.
02:36:50.860 And the reason.
02:36:51.860 For that.
02:36:52.860 Is the tables.
02:36:53.860 Never move.
02:36:54.860 Up and down.
02:36:55.860 In height.
02:36:56.860 So.
02:36:57.860 Every time.
02:36:58.860 You stand up.
02:36:59.860 Underneath.
02:37:00.860 When you get.
02:37:01.860 Your disciplinary.
02:37:02.860 Structure.
02:37:03.860 In place.
02:37:04.860 Carefully.
02:37:05.860 Because.
02:37:06.860 You're going to have.
02:37:07.860 To enforce it.
02:37:08.860 And then.
02:37:09.860 Don't waver.
02:37:10.860 And then.
02:37:11.860 What the child.
02:37:12.860 Will do.
02:37:13.860 Is hit it twice.
02:37:14.860 And that'll be painful.
02:37:15.860 For you.
02:37:16.860 And the child.
02:37:17.860 And then.
02:37:18.860 They'll never do it again.
02:37:19.860 Well.
02:37:20.860 They will.
02:37:21.860 But you know.
02:37:22.860 What I mean.
02:37:23.860 It's still effective.
02:37:24.860 So.
02:37:25.860 That's some advice.
02:37:26.860 It's useful advice.
02:37:27.860 It's like.
02:37:28.860 Jordan Peterson.
02:37:29.860 Uncensored.
02:37:30.860 Yeah.
02:37:31.860 Yeah.
02:37:32.860 I had a colleague.
02:37:33.860 Go after me.
02:37:34.860 This morning.
02:37:35.860 In a very rude way.
02:37:36.860 And it sort of.
02:37:37.860 Rattled me up.
02:37:38.860 I'm.
02:37:39.860 I'm a funny person.
02:37:40.860 Because.
02:37:41.860 I don't really have.
02:37:42.860 Stomach.
02:37:43.860 For conflict.
02:37:44.860 And.
02:37:45.860 I've just been in conflict.
02:37:46.860 Non-stop.
02:37:47.860 For two years.
02:37:48.860 And.
02:37:49.860 It's worn me out.
02:37:50.860 Quite a bit.
02:37:51.860 So.
02:37:52.860 I had some conflict.
02:37:53.860 This morning.
02:37:54.860 With this colleague.
02:37:55.860 Who.
02:37:56.860 Felt.
02:37:57.860 That it was his.
02:37:58.860 Moral obligation.
02:37:59.860 To take me to task.
02:38:00.860 And.
02:38:01.860 So.
02:38:02.860 It's sort of.
02:38:03.860 What would you say.
02:38:04.860 It's defocused me.
02:38:05.860 To some degree.
02:38:06.860 So.
02:38:07.860 That's the consequence.
02:38:08.860 Less censored.
02:38:09.860 Tonight.
02:38:10.860 Than I should.
02:38:11.860 Probably be.
02:38:12.860 I think you guys.
02:38:13.860 Are okay.
02:38:14.860 With that though.
02:38:15.860 Right?
02:38:16.860 Yeah.
02:38:17.860 Well.
02:38:18.860 Actually.
02:38:19.860 That's a perfect.
02:38:20.860 Segue.
02:38:21.860 To the next question.
02:38:22.860 Which is.
02:38:23.860 How do you deal.
02:38:24.860 With all the hate?
02:38:25.860 Yeah.
02:38:26.860 Yeah.
02:38:27.860 That actually.
02:38:28.860 Works really.
02:38:29.860 Well.
02:38:30.860 It's like.
02:38:31.860 Do you.
02:38:32.860 Do you see.
02:38:33.860 The Simpson episode.
02:38:34.860 I love this.
02:38:35.860 Simpson episode.
02:38:36.860 So.
02:38:37.860 Homer.
02:38:38.860 Mayonnaise.
02:38:39.860 And vodka.
02:38:40.860 And he.
02:38:41.860 And he drinks it all down.
02:38:42.860 And.
02:38:43.860 Marge says.
02:38:44.860 Do you really think.
02:38:45.860 That's a good idea.
02:38:46.860 Homer says.
02:38:47.860 That's a problem.
02:38:48.860 For future.
02:38:49.860 Homer.
02:38:50.860 I'd sure.
02:38:51.860 Hate.
02:38:52.860 To be that guy.
02:38:53.860 God.
02:38:54.860 I think.
02:38:55.860 That's so funny.
02:38:56.860 But.
02:38:57.860 But.
02:38:58.860 Well.
02:38:59.860 Okay.
02:39:00.860 How do I deal.
02:39:01.860 With it.
02:39:02.860 Um.
02:39:03.860 I rely a lot.
02:39:05.860 On my family.
02:39:06.860 So.
02:39:07.860 And.
02:39:08.860 Luckily.
02:39:09.860 Fortunately.
02:39:10.860 We had.
02:39:11.860 Put ourselves together.
02:39:12.860 Reasonably.
02:39:13.860 Well.
02:39:14.860 By the time.
02:39:15.860 All of this happened.
02:39:16.860 You know.
02:39:17.860 We didn't have a lot of.
02:39:18.860 Elephants under the carpet.
02:39:19.860 There was.
02:39:20.860 Some mice.
02:39:21.860 Maybe.
02:39:22.860 Under the carpet.
02:39:23.860 There weren't any elephants.
02:39:24.860 Thank God.
02:39:25.860 Because.
02:39:26.860 If there would have been.
02:39:27.860 Fractures.
02:39:28.860 We would have been.
02:39:29.860 Done.
02:39:30.860 And there were other times.
02:39:31.860 In our life.
02:39:32.860 In our family.
02:39:33.860 Where that would have.
02:39:34.860 Also been the case.
02:39:35.860 So.
02:39:36.860 With me.
02:39:37.860 She's here.
02:39:38.860 Somewhere.
02:39:39.860 In the audience.
02:39:40.860 She's.
02:39:41.860 She's.
02:39:42.860 With her sister.
02:39:43.860 Who's traveling.
02:39:44.860 With us.
02:39:45.860 So.
02:39:46.860 That's kind of interesting.
02:39:47.860 And so.
02:39:48.860 And so.
02:39:49.860 And my parents.
02:39:50.860 Have been very helpful.
02:39:51.860 And I've had a handful.
02:39:52.860 Of friends.
02:39:53.860 Who.
02:39:54.860 Have been.
02:39:55.860 Extremely helpful.
02:39:56.860 Very critical.
02:39:57.860 Very very critical.
02:39:58.860 You know.
02:39:59.860 They're smart people.
02:40:00.860 And.
02:40:01.860 They've been watching.
02:40:02.860 What I've been doing.
02:40:03.860 And then.
02:40:04.860 My brother-in-law.
02:40:05.860 Is particularly.
02:40:06.860 Like that.
02:40:07.860 He.
02:40:08.860 Phoned me up.
02:40:09.860 And he says.
02:40:10.860 Well.
02:40:11.860 Here's.
02:40:12.860 These are things.
02:40:13.860 You did.
02:40:14.860 That were stupid.
02:40:15.860 And you shouldn't do them again.
02:40:16.860 Harsh.
02:40:17.860 But he's right.
02:40:18.860 And that's helpful.
02:40:19.860 Because then.
02:40:20.860 You don't have to do it again.
02:40:21.860 And so.
02:40:22.860 And then.
02:40:23.860 I'm detached.
02:40:24.860 From it.
02:40:25.860 To some degree.
02:40:26.860 Partly.
02:40:27.860 Because.
02:40:28.860 I've learned.
02:40:29.860 That.
02:40:30.860 You don't want to jump.
02:40:31.860 To conclusions.
02:40:32.860 Like.
02:40:33.860 What's happened to me.
02:40:34.860 That's been strange.
02:40:35.860 Is that.
02:40:36.860 Every time.
02:40:37.860 Someone has come after me.
02:40:38.860 So far.
02:40:39.860 The tide has turned.
02:40:41.860 So.
02:40:42.860 If I can just.
02:40:43.860 Stick it out.
02:40:44.860 For two weeks.
02:40:45.860 To know.
02:40:46.860 By the way.
02:40:47.860 Like.
02:40:48.860 Here.
02:40:49.860 I'll tell you something.
02:40:50.860 You might need to know.
02:40:51.860 At some point.
02:40:52.860 In your life.
02:40:53.860 Okay.
02:40:54.860 If someone comes after you.
02:40:55.860 A bunch of people.
02:40:56.860 Come after you.
02:40:57.860 And.
02:40:58.860 The first thing.
02:40:59.860 You want to do.
02:41:00.860 How stupid.
02:41:01.860 How stupid you are.
02:41:02.860 And if you've done anything.
02:41:03.860 Dumb.
02:41:04.860 And you.
02:41:05.860 Because you need to know.
02:41:06.860 Right.
02:41:07.860 You need to kind of.
02:41:08.860 Go over.
02:41:09.860 Your conscience.
02:41:10.860 With a fine tooth comb.
02:41:11.860 Your own innocence.
02:41:12.860 Right.
02:41:13.860 Because you deserve.
02:41:14.860 A good defense.
02:41:15.860 That presumption of innocence.
02:41:16.860 That's unbelievably important.
02:41:17.860 Okay.
02:41:18.860 So now.
02:41:19.860 If you figure out.
02:41:20.860 That.
02:41:21.860 You're basically.
02:41:22.860 In the clear.
02:41:23.860 If you're basically.
02:41:24.860 Innocent.
02:41:25.860 Out.
02:41:26.860 At least.
02:41:27.860 Then.
02:41:28.860 Mount a defense.
02:41:29.860 And don't apologize.
02:41:30.860 If you apologize.
02:41:32.860 Especially.
02:41:33.860 The way things are now.
02:41:34.860 You're done.
02:41:35.860 All it is.
02:41:36.860 Is an admission of guilt.
02:41:37.860 And the vultures.
02:41:38.860 Will take you out.
02:41:39.860 So.
02:41:40.860 Do not.
02:41:41.860 Admit.
02:41:42.860 To criminal action.
02:41:43.860 If you did not.
02:41:44.860 Commit it.
02:41:45.860 Right.
02:41:46.860 And then.
02:41:48.860 Then.
02:41:49.860 Then.
02:41:50.860 You got to put your head down.
02:41:51.860 And it's like.
02:41:52.860 There's this great movie.
02:41:54.860 Called Runaway Train.
02:41:56.860 I love that movie.
02:41:57.860 And.
02:41:58.860 At the end of the movie.
02:41:59.860 There's two criminals.
02:42:00.860 On a train.
02:42:01.860 And.
02:42:02.860 And.
02:42:03.860 The train.
02:42:04.860 Is.
02:42:05.860 Throttles.
02:42:06.860 Open.
02:42:07.860 It's in Siberia.
02:42:08.860 And it's going to crash.
02:42:09.860 And there's nothing.
02:42:10.860 They can do about it.
02:42:11.860 And.
02:42:12.860 The old criminal.
02:42:13.860 Stands up.
02:42:14.860 On top of the.
02:42:15.860 The locomotive.
02:42:16.860 In the cold.
02:42:17.860 And just.
02:42:18.860 Leans forward.
02:42:19.860 Right.
02:42:20.860 He's just.
02:42:21.860 He knows that.
02:42:22.860 The end is coming.
02:42:23.860 The train.
02:42:24.860 And.
02:42:25.860 That's what you do.
02:42:26.860 For two weeks.
02:42:27.860 It's like.
02:42:28.860 You just.
02:42:29.860 Let it happen.
02:42:31.860 Just.
02:42:32.860 Take it.
02:42:33.860 And if you can.
02:42:34.860 Handle it.
02:42:35.860 And you don't panic.
02:42:36.860 It'll go away.
02:42:38.860 And the tide will flip.
02:42:39.860 If you're fortunate.
02:42:40.860 You're careful.
02:42:41.860 You know.
02:42:42.860 But you got to be able.
02:42:43.860 To withstand that.
02:42:44.860 Two weeks.
02:42:45.860 And that's no easy matter.
02:42:46.860 Man.
02:42:47.860 Because you're going to be.
02:42:48.860 Tempted.
02:42:49.860 Like mad.
02:42:50.860 And.
02:42:51.860 That's not good.
02:42:52.860 And so.
02:42:53.860 I've learned to just.
02:42:55.860 Detach myself.
02:42:56.860 And watch.
02:42:57.860 And you know.
02:42:58.860 Lots.
02:42:59.860 That's been very strange.
02:43:00.860 Like the last time.
02:43:01.860 That's.
02:43:02.860 There's been like ten things.
02:43:03.860 That just.
02:43:04.860 More than that.
02:43:05.860 Jesus Christ.
02:43:06.860 Here I'll tell you what my life's been like.
02:43:07.860 This is a funny story.
02:43:08.860 I suppose.
02:43:09.860 So.
02:43:10.860 About a year ago.
02:43:12.860 I think it was.
02:43:13.860 The.
02:43:14.860 The.
02:43:15.860 My.
02:43:16.860 My.
02:43:17.860 My.
02:43:18.860 Faculty association.
02:43:19.860 At the university.
02:43:20.860 Decided to.
02:43:21.860 Take action.
02:43:22.860 Against me.
02:43:23.860 For something.
02:43:24.860 They.
02:43:25.860 That I.
02:43:26.860 Hypothetically.
02:43:27.860 Said.
02:43:28.860 That wasn't the reason.
02:43:29.860 But whatever.
02:43:30.860 They got.
02:43:31.860 Two hundred.
02:43:32.860 Faculty members.
02:43:33.860 To sign.
02:43:34.860 Petition.
02:43:35.860 To.
02:43:36.860 Have me fired.
02:43:37.860 Firsty.
02:43:38.860 And.
02:43:39.860 And.
02:43:40.860 My son came over.
02:43:41.860 And I.
02:43:42.860 And they didn't even.
02:43:43.860 Contact me.
02:43:44.860 Even though it was my.
02:43:45.860 Faculty association.
02:43:46.860 They never even.
02:43:47.860 Contacted me.
02:43:48.860 And they didn't really.
02:43:49.860 Look into this story.
02:43:50.860 Or.
02:43:51.860 Anything.
02:43:52.860 Whatever.
02:43:53.860 Doesn't matter.
02:43:54.860 But there were two hundred of them.
02:43:55.860 And my son came over.
02:43:56.860 And I said.
02:43:57.860 And he got pretty used.
02:43:58.860 To there being one.
02:43:59.860 You know.
02:44:00.860 Scandal per day.
02:44:01.860 Or maybe two.
02:44:02.860 Scandals per day.
02:44:03.860 On a.
02:44:04.860 On a good day.
02:44:05.860 I said.
02:44:06.860 The faculty association.
02:44:07.860 Just presented a petition.
02:44:08.860 To the university administration.
02:44:09.860 To have me fired.
02:44:10.860 And he said.
02:44:11.860 How many people signed it.
02:44:13.860 And I said.
02:44:14.860 Well.
02:44:15.860 Two hundred.
02:44:16.860 He said.
02:44:17.860 Oh.
02:44:18.860 It's only two hundred people.
02:44:19.860 You haven't got anything.
02:44:20.860 To worry about.
02:44:21.860 And that was sort of.
02:44:22.860 The reality of our life.
02:44:23.860 For.
02:44:24.860 Well.
02:44:25.860 It has been.
02:44:26.860 For two years.
02:44:27.860 It's like.
02:44:28.860 It wasn't anything.
02:44:29.860 You had to take.
02:44:30.860 With any degree.
02:44:31.860 Of seriousness.
02:44:32.860 So.
02:44:33.860 And.
02:44:34.860 So.
02:44:35.860 It's just been.
02:44:36.860 It's just been.
02:44:37.860 Surreal.
02:44:38.860 It's like.
02:44:39.860 One bloody.
02:44:40.860 Scandal.
02:44:41.860 After another.
02:44:42.860 And so.
02:44:43.860 I guess.
02:44:44.860 The other thing.
02:44:45.860 That's been helpful.
02:44:46.860 To me.
02:44:47.860 In that is.
02:44:48.860 And this was.
02:44:49.860 Fortune.
02:44:50.860 Good fortune.
02:44:51.860 When all this.
02:44:52.860 First.
02:44:53.860 Broke.
02:44:54.860 I already.
02:44:55.860 Started.
02:44:56.860 Pretty much.
02:44:57.860 Everything.
02:44:58.860 I said.
02:44:59.860 To my students.
02:45:00.860 For 30 years.
02:45:01.860 You know.
02:45:02.860 Like.
02:45:03.860 All my lectures.
02:45:04.860 Are online.
02:45:05.860 Now.
02:45:06.860 Not.
02:45:07.860 Everything.
02:45:08.860 I've said.
02:45:09.860 But.
02:45:10.860 It's a representative.
02:45:11.860 Sample.
02:45:12.860 Man.
02:45:13.860 It's like.
02:45:14.860 Years.
02:45:15.860 Of courses.
02:45:16.860 Including.
02:45:17.860 Ones.
02:45:18.860 That I taught.
02:45:19.860 Back.
02:45:20.860 In the 1990s.
02:45:21.860 You know.
02:45:22.860 And.
02:45:23.860 But.
02:45:24.860 They didn't.
02:45:25.860 Find one.
02:45:26.860 And.
02:45:27.860 That's.
02:45:28.860 Because.
02:45:29.860 I have.
02:45:30.860 Been.
02:45:31.860 Very careful.
02:45:32.860 With.
02:45:33.860 What I've.
02:45:34.860 Said.
02:45:35.860 And.
02:45:36.860 So.
02:45:37.860 That's.
02:45:38.860 Also.
02:45:39.860 Protected.
02:45:40.860 Me.
02:45:41.860 Right.
02:45:42.860 Luckily.
02:45:43.860 My.
02:45:44.860 Past.
02:45:45.860 Hasn't.
02:45:46.860 Been.
02:45:47.860 Too.
02:45:48.860 Scandalous.
02:45:49.860 And.
02:45:50.860 A lot.
02:45:51.860 Of.
02:45:52.860 You know.
02:45:53.860 Like.
02:45:54.860 I've.
02:45:55.860 Really.
02:45:56.860 Thought.
02:45:57.860 Through.
02:45:58.860 The things.
02:45:59.860 That I was.
02:46:00.860 Talking to you.
02:46:01.860 To everybody.
02:46:02.860 About.
02:46:03.860 Tonight.
02:46:04.860 I've.
02:46:05.860 Really.
02:46:06.860 Thought.
02:46:07.860 Through.
02:46:08.860 Them.
02:46:09.860 When.
02:46:10.860 I wrote.
02:46:11.860 Maps.
02:46:12.860 Of.
02:46:13.860 Meaning.
02:46:14.860 My.
02:46:15.860 First.
02:46:16.860 Book.
02:46:17.860 List.
02:46:18.860 Out.
02:46:19.860 All.
02:46:20.860 The sentences.
02:46:21.860 And.
02:46:22.860 Put.
02:46:23.860 Spaces.
02:46:24.860 Between.
02:46:25.860 Them.
02:46:26.860 Then.
02:46:27.860 I write.
02:46:28.860 Variations.
02:46:29.860 Of.
02:46:30.860 The sentences.
02:46:31.860 Something.
02:46:32.860 I.
02:46:33.860 Could.
02:46:34.860 Not.
02:46:35.860 Challenge.
02:46:36.860 Right.
02:46:37.860 So.
02:46:38.860 I hit.
02:46:39.860 It.
02:46:40.860 From.
02:46:41.860 Every.
02:46:42.860 Angle.
02:46:43.860 I could.
02:46:44.860 See.
02:46:45.860 Can I make.
02:46:46.860 This sentence.
02:46:47.860 Better.
02:46:48.860 Do.
02:46:49.860 I believe.
02:46:50.860 What.
02:46:51.860 This sentence.
02:46:52.860 Says.
02:46:53.860 Does.
02:46:54.860 Seem.
02:46:55.860 Like.
02:46:56.860 Because.
02:46:57.860 I made.
02:46:58.860 The audio.
02:46:59.860 Version.
02:47:00.860 So.
02:47:01.860 I read.
02:47:02.860 It.
02:47:03.860 Out loud.
02:47:04.860 You know.
02:47:05.860 And.
02:47:06.860 I think.
02:47:07.860 I'm.
02:47:08.860 Still.
02:47:09.860 Pleased.
02:47:10.860 With.
02:47:11.860 What.
02:47:12.860 It.
02:47:13.860 I got.
02:47:14.860 It.
02:47:15.860 Right.
02:47:16.860 Enough.
02:47:17.860 So.
02:47:18.860 That.
02:47:19.860 It.
02:47:20.860 It.
02:47:21.860 It.
02:47:22.860 It.
02:47:23.860 It.
02:47:24.860 It.
02:47:25.860 To.
02:47:26.860 Put.
02:47:27.860 Forward.
02:47:28.860 These.
02:47:29.860 Archetypal.
02:47:30.860 Themes.
02:47:31.860 That.
02:47:32.860 I had.
02:47:33.860 Learned.
02:47:34.860 In.
02:47:35.860 Relatively.
02:47:36.860 Clear.
02:47:37.860 Language.
02:47:38.860 And.
02:47:39.860 Everyone.
02:47:40.860 Needs.
02:47:41.860 To.
02:47:42.860 To.
02:47:43.860 To.
02:47:44.860 To.
02:47:45.860 To.
02:47:46.860 To.
02:47:47.860 To.
02:47:48.860 To.
02:47:49.860 To.
02:47:50.860 To.
02:47:51.860 To.
02:47:52.860 To.
02:47:53.860 To.
02:47:54.860 To.
02:47:55.860 To.
02:47:56.860 To.
02:47:57.860 To.
02:47:58.860 To.
02:47:59.860 To.
02:48:00.860 To.
02:48:01.860 To.
02:48:02.360 To Dam Parex.
02:48:02.860 No.
02:48:03.860 To.
02:48:19.860 Still.
02:48:20.860 To.
02:48:21.860 the mill. How about that, the father and son that came backstage a couple months ago, they
02:48:27.000 said they hadn't, the father said he hadn't seen his son, I think in about five years,
02:48:31.320 and somehow it came to be that they both read 12 Rules for Life, and that was the first
02:48:35.820 night that they had seen each other. Yeah, that was good. That's powerful. That was good,
02:48:39.280 man, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, and some of this is a real, some of this is a tremendous adventure,
02:48:46.280 you know, like all of this technological change, the sorts of things that you're doing online
02:48:50.240 with your talk show, and like these are having widespread cultural impact, and so that's
02:48:56.060 a bloody amazing, and so, well, life is an adventure if you're lucky, that's about the
02:49:01.660 best you can hope for, and this is certainly an adventure, that's for sure, so hooray for
02:49:06.160 that. That right there seems like the right ending. Should we end it right there or one
02:49:14.200 more? Was there any chance? Get out of here. All right, all right, this is a good one.
02:49:21.480 It's better than a barrage of fruit. It's Long Island, they throw bagels.
02:49:30.760 Pizza. Or pizza. Man, the carbs in this town, Jesus. I live in LA now, I'm doing this paleo
02:49:37.620 thing. I gained about 27 pounds today. I like this one. This is a good ending. What would
02:49:43.680 a younger Jordan Peterson think of the guy sitting here tonight? We could have got out
02:49:50.760 of here a minute ago, but yeah. Hmm. I would think he'd think that he got what he wanted.
02:49:59.620 On that note, guys, it's been a pleasure coming back to Long Island and doing this for you guys.
02:50:18.740 I am going to get out of the way, make some noise for Dr. Jordan Peterson, everybody. Thank you very
02:50:23.400 much. It's a pleasure being here and I appreciate very much you coming out. So good night.
02:50:32.120 If you found this conversation meaningful, you might think about picking up dad's books,
02:50:36.540 Maps of Meaning, The Architecture of Belief, or his newer bestseller, 12 Rules for Life,
02:50:40.900 An Antidote to Chaos. Both of these works delve much deeper into the topics covered in the Jordan
02:50:45.400 B. Peterson podcast. See jordanbpeterson.com for audio, ebook, and text links, or pick up the books
02:50:51.980 at your favorite bookseller. I hope you enjoyed this podcast. If you did, please leave a rating
02:50:56.540 at Apple Podcasts. I haven't decided what to play next week, so it'll be a surprise. Thanks for
02:51:02.580 listening. I'll talk to you next week. Follow me on my YouTube channel, Jordan B. Peterson,
02:51:08.720 on Twitter at Jordan B. Peterson, on Facebook at Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, and at Instagram at
02:51:15.700 jordan.b.peterson. Details on this show, access to my blog, information about my tour dates and other
02:51:23.640 events, and my list of recommended books can be found on my website, jordanbpeterson.com.
02:51:30.260 My online writing programs, designed to help people straighten out their pasts,
02:51:35.060 understand themselves in the present, and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future,
02:51:40.120 can be found at selfauthoring.com. That's selfauthoring.com. From the Westwood One Podcast Network.