The Crisis of Masculinity
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 50 minutes
Words per Minute
173.42302
Summary
In Season 2, Episode 30 of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson delivers a lecture in Manchester, England on the 12 Rules for Life: A 12 Rules For Life Lecture, done by Dr. Peterson on Depression and Anxiety. In this episode, Jordan talks about his recent trip to Manchester and the lessons he learned about masculinity he picked up in the process. He also talks about a recent event he did in the city that changed his perspective on masculinity, and how it can affect the way he thinks about and acts as a leader in the world. To learn more about Jordan and his new series, The Crisis of Masculinity, go to Dailywire.tv/thecrisisofmasculinity and use the promo code LIONDIET to receive a FREE copy of his new book, "The Crisis of masculinity: A Guide to a Better Life." Let s take the first step towards the brighter future you deserve. Subscribe to Daily Wire Plus to get immediate access to all of the latest episodes, and get notified when new episodes are available. If you haven t signed up for ThinkSpot, the social media platform Dad s involved with, please check it out at ThinkSpot.org/LION DIET. You ll be entered into the DAILY WORD contest to be entered in the drawing for a chance to win a FREE gift from Dad's company, LIONDETET! and more! Subscribe, Like, Share, and subscribe to the podcast! Subscribe & Retweet this episode of the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and more ways to help spread the word to your friends and family can be a little bit more like Dad's Dad can be there for you, too! You'll get access to everything Dad does it everywhere. Thank you, Dad's Day! - The Jordan B Peterson Podcast - Subscribe, Subscribe & Share it on social media and more. - Subscribe to the Podcast, Subscribe to his Podcasts: and much more! - The Crisis Of Masculine: How to be a Badass Dad's Guide to the Good Life, Good Relationships, Good Things, Good Times, Good Friends, and Good Things Happier, Good People Say It's a Good Thing, Good Stuff, and Great Things, Bad News, and So Much More! - This Podcast is a Podcast by Jordan Peterson, I'm Working on a Podcast About It's Better Than That, and More!
Transcript
00:00:00.000
Oh, Maya. Maya. She loves being cool. 21 degrees is her favorite number. God, she's the coolest, especially at night. So I raise the temp at 10 p.m. because she gets chilly when she sleeps. Maya loves using less energy. And I love Maya. We're basically besties.
00:00:19.220
With SmartFlow from Enbridge Sustain, you won't have to think about your HVAC, but it will always be thinking of you. With smart controls and zero upfront costs, visit EnbridgeSustainSmartFlow.com to learn more.
00:00:30.000
Hey, everyone. Real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important. Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.
00:00:42.600
We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be, and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.
00:00:50.340
With decades of experience helping patients, Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.
00:00:57.580
He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy, it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.
00:01:05.540
If you're suffering, please know you are not alone. There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.
00:01:11.960
Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.
00:01:17.640
Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.
00:01:21.140
Welcome to Season 2, Episode 30 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.
00:01:34.340
I'm Michaela Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.
00:01:37.700
This is a podcast done in Manchester, recorded on October 25th, 2018.
00:01:43.320
If you haven't signed up for ThinkSpot, the social media platform Dad's involved with, please check it out at least.
00:01:49.000
You go to ThinkSpot.com and enter the promo code LIONDIET, one word, to be invited in sooner.
00:01:55.200
It's still in the early stages and will be more informed in January, but it has great functionalities built in.
00:02:00.400
You can annotate podcasts, videos, basically have online book groups, and interact with the content providers you want to interact with.
00:02:07.940
I'm on there, hence LIONDIET code, Dadis, Jocko Willink, Greg Hurwitz, and more.
00:02:13.860
I've named this podcast The Crisis of Masculinity.
00:02:19.000
The Crisis of Masculinity, a 12 Rules for Life Lecture, done by Jordan B. Peterson.
00:03:00.620
My wife and I, we had an interesting time getting here, too, because yesterday morning we were in Oslo,
00:03:13.620
and then we flew to Stockholm and did two newspaper interviews and a podcast and then a TV talk show there,
00:03:23.760
and then we made it to the airport to fly to London with, like, 20 minutes to spare.
00:03:30.360
We're supposed to fly in this morning, but we thought that was risking it because my publicists at Penguin had cooperated with BBC to set up a radio interview this morning at 10,
00:03:40.840
and we figured if we flew in, you know, if there was a flight delay, then that would be not good.
00:03:48.040
And so we flew to London last night, and we got in about midnight, and then we drove to Manchester, and that took about three hours, and so that was yesterday.
00:03:56.760
And then this morning we got up and we went to this BBC radio interview, which was very interesting, and I thought I might talk to you about it a little bit.
00:04:07.200
And I'm going to talk to you tonight about three rules.
00:04:10.820
I'm going to talk to you about rule 11, which is don't bother children when they're skateboarding,
00:04:18.020
and rule 10, which is be precise in your speech, and rule 8, which is pursue what is meaningful.
00:04:29.900
Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient.
00:04:32.340
And I want to, I want to, what would you say, weave those together, and also do that in a way that's relevant to what happened today,
00:04:44.700
So, I went to this boxing club that's in Moss, yes, Moss Side, Moss Side, yes.
00:04:56.440
And it was run by a gentleman named Nigel Travis, and so he's taken part of an old fire station there and turned it into a boxing club.
00:05:06.520
And so, and he did that to help primarily young men in the Moss Side area develop some discipline and to bring their aggression,
00:05:20.960
I wouldn't say under control, I wouldn't say under control, but to learn how to use it in the most appropriate possible way.
00:05:27.240
So, and then at the boxing club, there was nine people, nine people other than me.
00:05:35.160
There was the person who set up the interview, someone that I had talked to a year before.
00:05:46.380
And then there were two young guys, 18-year-old guys, who had learned to box and had ended up doing very well at it.
00:05:55.980
One of them is the current ABA National Youth Champion.
00:06:01.880
Another one was a Somalian kid who has disciplined himself as a consequence of interacting with this group,
00:06:13.200
And there was a young guy from France, and his name is Kevin Munga.
00:06:18.560
He was an ex-gang member, and he turned his life around and finished his law degree,
00:06:23.800
and he just wrote a book called, Young Black Males Have Potential, Your Color Does Not Determine Your Future.
00:06:33.320
And a guy named Rhodes, who, studying for a PhD from Cyprus,
00:06:38.540
who did military service and learned during his military service that he was not only capable of accepting a certain amount of discipline,
00:06:46.740
but that he was capable of thriving in the chaos that was part and parcel of the military training.
00:06:59.460
But it was a really good conversation, you know, because, well, because it was a real conversation.
00:07:08.700
It was each of these guys had come from a background that was rough in its own way.
00:07:15.340
One of them, I think his name was Niall, had developed type 1 diabetes when he was a kid,
00:07:21.260
and he talked about how he had learned to, I wouldn't say overcome that,
00:07:25.600
because I don't really know if you overcome a very serious illness like that,
00:07:31.760
but you can confront it and do everything you can to accept it without bitterness
00:07:41.080
and to move forward despite the fact that you're impeded in some important way, you know,
00:07:52.720
He started a business, and that's thriving, and so he's pretty happy with that.
00:07:56.300
And so, we were talking about all sorts of things,
00:08:00.780
and so I wanted to sort of weave those together a little bit
00:08:05.880
You know, a couple of the guys had joined gangs when they were kids and adolescents,
00:08:11.060
and, you know, we're not very happy about young men joining gangs,
00:08:19.360
It's like, it's one thing to join a gang, and maybe that's not the best thing,
00:08:23.420
but it's another thing not to be able to join a gang.
00:08:30.120
Because it means if you're 12 or 13 and you can't find a gang,
00:08:34.000
that means that you haven't become socialized enough so that people will accept you.
00:08:39.700
And so, joining a gang, being able to join a gang,
00:08:42.600
is actually a marker of a certain degree of maturation, you know,
00:08:55.120
And maybe you need a gang if you're female, too,
00:08:57.080
although we don't seem to see roving gangs of females.
00:09:00.060
So, well, right, I mean, that's not something that happens, right?
00:09:02.660
And I would say that's actually worthy of note.
00:09:06.580
I think it might have something to do with the fact that because
00:09:14.580
that, you know, girls 13, 14 start going out with guys that are older than that,
00:09:22.020
and so they don't have that time where they aggregate together
00:09:32.240
they're not necessarily that attractive as potential mates,
00:09:35.060
and so they have to do something with their time,
00:09:38.920
and hang around with other losers like them, whatever.
00:09:44.460
I think that joining a gang is actually a stepping stone
00:10:00.640
and then you have to learn how to interact with the peer group
00:10:03.460
in a manner that makes you a desirable part of that group
00:10:08.280
and then you also have to be able to hold your own in that peer group,
00:10:11.880
Because a male gang has a fair bit of contentiousness in it.
00:10:16.000
There's a lot of poking and prodding that goes on,
00:10:42.360
or even an actual blow without falling apart as a consequence?
00:10:50.620
because I think the way that human beings develop
00:10:55.720
and they have their childhood friends and so forth,
00:10:58.340
but fundamentally they're within the confines of the familial group.
00:11:02.440
And maybe that's even a matriarchal organization,
00:11:08.520
Anyways, you're certainly under the primary care
00:11:18.700
And so primarily you're under the care of your mother.
00:11:28.260
And really that point's got to be somewhere around 12, 13,
00:11:35.840
despite the fact that you don't know what the hell you're doing.
00:11:38.260
And you take your risks and you take your blows
00:11:43.680
And then, of course, the fundamental question is,
00:12:15.640
And so what you hope is that as you mature as a male,
00:12:21.260
gets more and more and more sophisticated and worthwhile,
00:12:28.080
it was a relief to me to go to university, actually,
00:12:30.520
because I was always interested in intellectual matters.
00:12:38.140
although that seems to have changed substantially since then.
00:12:46.720
It was other people who had a similar background to me.
00:12:52.960
And the friends that I made when I went to college
00:12:56.680
A lot of them had worked on the oil rigs or in lead smelters.
00:13:00.700
And they decided that, and they were smart, you know,
00:13:03.540
although I wouldn't say necessarily classically intellectual,
00:13:06.260
but they had decided that they were going to go to college
00:13:08.040
or to university and try to educate themselves, you know,
00:13:11.240
because, well, because they had the capacity for it.
00:13:18.780
some professors I met who were really interested in teaching.
00:13:22.460
especially at a small community college that I first attended.
00:13:30.760
and interested in opening up the remarkable gang of intellectuals
00:13:40.500
that we've collected and aggregated and put together
00:13:44.840
so that people can join that club if they want to.
00:13:56.520
which is what you should do if you go to university.
00:14:05.240
decided to elevate those writers above all else
00:14:14.680
will save you an awful lot of misery and trouble.
00:14:25.920
You have to contend and grapple with the books, right?
00:14:28.800
You have to push yourself beyond your current intellectual ability
00:14:36.760
But then that enables you to join this amazing gang
00:15:24.140
that was part of their more unsophisticated gangs.
01:03:07.500
the women i know that are worth their salt they
01:03:11.980
clear if you and this is biology and so forgive me for expressing some truths
01:03:17.560
about biology i know that that's damn near illegal now and likely soon will be
01:03:22.320
that um women across the world including in egalitarian societies by the way tend to
01:03:30.600
mate across and up hierarchies and so what they do is they look for men who
01:03:36.360
occupy positions of authority and competence that are above theirs well why okay let's think
01:03:44.240
this through it's not that complicated well the first thing is well why not right why not look
01:03:51.800
look look let's say you're a woman and you you have to you have to you have to figure out i got to
01:03:56.160
find a man it's like oh my god that's a horrible problem it's like and then look at all those men
01:04:02.060
how am i going to sort through them well i don't know how about if i put them in groups and let
01:04:08.140
them fight and the ones that come on top well we'll just call them the best men
01:04:12.320
well that's a good strategy it's like well it's the men
01:04:16.060
who are making the hierarchies at least in part and
01:04:20.140
some men rise to the top of them and if the hierarchy is worthwhile then
01:04:23.980
those men are worthwhile at least by the judgment of other men and
01:04:28.000
how else are you going to judge men except by the judgment of other men
01:04:31.320
and so the women let the men sort themselves into hierarchies and then they peel from the top
01:04:36.700
down and that is exactly what they do and you think well why is that well how about
01:04:41.200
because they're smart how would that be how about because that's a really good strategy now
01:04:46.160
there's a bit of a downside because that might be might mean that there's a hierarchical imbalance
01:04:51.580
in the relationship but here's the payoff for that well why do you select a partner well partly
01:04:58.520
partly large part if you want the whole race to survive is because well you want to have kids
01:05:05.200
and so what's going to happen when you have kids if you're a female well a couple of things is first
01:05:11.220
of all you're going to take an economic hit so you know the vaunted wage gap it's like it's not a gap
01:05:17.960
between men and women it's a gap between mothers and everyone else fundamentally and we should get that
01:05:23.800
straight and so and it's and the reason there's the gap is because it's actually really expensive to
01:05:28.740
have children and we don't know what to do about that it's like first of all well they're expensive
01:05:33.600
you know you have to buy things for them you have to have room for them you have to take care of them
01:05:38.340
and then they take you out of your life especially the first few years especially the first year it's
01:05:44.360
like man that's a full-time job a new baby the whole it's more than a full-time job it's like 80
01:05:49.980
hours a week the first year and then and then even right up to the age of four or five when they
01:05:55.980
enter school it's tremendous amount of effort to regulate the behavior of small children especially
01:06:01.220
they have more than one of them you might think well you could hire another woman to do it but
01:06:05.200
that doesn't really solve the problem it doesn't make the expense go away so we don't know what to
01:06:09.420
do with the fact that children are expensive you could say well we could pay mothers to take care of
01:06:14.680
them but the problem with that is that the children aren't worth anything till 25 years later well
01:06:19.980
they're not economically so we don't know we don't have a mechanism for figuring out how to
01:06:25.820
monetize an investment that has that much delay if you're a bloody venture capitalist you know you
01:06:31.620
want a 10 to 1 return on your investment within five years it's like good luck with that with a kid
01:06:36.620
you know even if you even if you sell the kid that's not going to work
01:06:40.780
so so the other thing that women do is well they know they're going to take the primary hit and
01:06:49.280
there's a couple of reasons for that and one is well women are actually better at taking care of
01:06:53.660
infants i mean you know below the first year than men and and there and and it's also not it seems
01:07:00.160
not as terrifying to women you know when when my wife and i decided to have kids i thought it through
01:07:05.340
we were quite young by modern standards and i wasn't fully in what would you say placed in my
01:07:12.040
career and i thought okay she wants to have a baby it's like well what about that i said well jesus i
01:07:16.900
don't know what i'm going to do about that first year because i don't really know what to do with
01:07:20.100
infants that well and i mean i'd worked in daycare and i really liked kids and i said okay look look
01:07:24.880
no problem you can have a baby but look you gotta more or less take care of that baby the first year
01:07:29.740
and i'll try to take care of you and we'll see how that goes and it's not like i ignored the damn baby
01:07:34.440
you know but i didn't breastfeed it you know and i didn't want to so and i did help her and i i tried
01:07:42.200
to see when she was too tired and then i'd step in and all that and and but i also facilitated let's
01:07:48.720
say or at least didn't interfere with that tight bond that's produced between mother and infant and
01:07:52.960
you know one of the things we lie to young women about is because we tell them oh career is going
01:07:57.920
to be everything for you it's like no that's a lie first of all most people don't have careers
01:08:03.840
they have jobs and those aren't the same thing and second even most people who have careers find that
01:08:09.680
when they have a family especially when they have children that they end up liking their children a
01:08:14.100
hell of a lot more than they thought they would i had one lawyer i used to work with female lawyer
01:08:19.040
tough cookie man and unbelievably competent and she said well you know when i was when i was going for
01:08:25.880
partnership i always thought the children were just sort of they were just sort of decorative you know
01:08:30.340
because she let's say suppressed her maternal attitude until it came out in full force at around 29 which
01:08:36.340
is you know absolutely typical and then she had a baby and it was like it was just a shock to her
01:08:42.400
it was like i really love this baby it's like you know because the thing about a baby that's so weird
01:08:48.380
and i think this is especially true for mothers is you know you see a baby on the subway and you think
01:08:53.020
oh there's a baby and it's sort of like a generic baby and and like because you just can't get too
01:09:00.280
involved with every baby that comes along first of all people think you're peculiar and that's not good
01:09:05.300
and second well you you just can't take on that responsibility right so you just you don't really
01:09:11.680
see the baby you just see your kind of one-dimensional animated version of the baby and you glance and you
01:09:19.220
walk away but when you have a child it's like no no you get the whole creature right there like that's a
01:09:24.200
real person right from the beginning and it's your real person and all of a sudden it's someone that
01:09:29.240
you're as close to or closer than anyone you've ever been close to in your whole life and if that
01:09:37.220
doesn't change you well then there's something wrong something's gone wrong and so then the
01:09:42.420
priorities shift and as they should shift and that doesn't mean we know how to balance that with like
01:09:47.760
long-term career we don't because it's complicated but you know women end up bearing the primary
01:09:55.400
responsibility for extraordinarily dependent infants and so they tend to look for men who can provide
01:10:00.880
the resources to balance that out to some degree so they're looking at productivity and generosity
01:10:07.540
let's say as markers for a suitable mate now that's not the only thing there's other elements that go
01:10:13.240
into mate choice but those are two very important things and those are those are relevant and important
01:10:18.000
and so well what do you want to do well you want to encourage young men to what to grow the hell up
01:10:25.060
right to take on responsibility and so one of the things i talked to these young guys
01:10:31.360
tonight today about was what where they'd found the meaning in their life and they all said well it was
01:10:37.640
a consequence of taking on more responsibility the two young boxers they were only 18 you know one of
01:10:43.520
them really talked about the fact that he had disciplined himself and that he wanted to go to college he
01:10:48.340
ended up wanting to go to college and it was a boxing college and there's like only four of them in the
01:10:52.300
country and he hadn't been doing so well academically but he wanted to go to the damn boxing college
01:10:56.980
because he had a talent and it was being encouraged by some older guys around him and you know he was
01:11:02.040
having some attention paid to him so he buckled the hell down and did the best he'd ever done
01:11:06.420
academically and got into the college it's like good work man way to be and then the other kid
01:11:12.140
he said well he'd started boxing and that it kind of toughened him up and made him more confident and
01:11:17.020
then he started teaching other young guys around him about how this worked and that really helped
01:11:21.900
him out because you know one of the ways that you can sort of determine if you're valuable and and you
01:11:27.180
are but the one of the ways you determine that is to see that reflected back to you by other people
01:11:32.860
and if you lend out a hand and like people love doing this this is another part about the rubbish about
01:11:38.600
the patriarchal tyranny i know lots of powerful men you know and most of them aren't powerful they're
01:11:44.580
bloody competent and that makes them powerful and one of the things they really like to do like
01:11:50.000
one of the things that's intrinsically rewarding about occupying a position in a hierarchy is that
01:11:55.540
you get to look around and some young people come along and you see wow that person's got potential
01:12:00.460
that person's got potential and that person's got potential and god i can open up a door for this
01:12:05.660
person and that'll help them develop and i can offer an opportunity to this person and that'll help
01:12:10.200
them develop and maybe you're lucky and you can do that with 12 people and you see these people
01:12:14.460
grow and expand under your tutelage and you don't take too much credit for it you think wow that's
01:12:20.300
it's so intrinsically rewarding to do that you think well that's not like two lines of coke on a naked
01:12:27.260
supermodel on your goddamn yacht you know it's it's much more fundamental it's much more profound and
01:12:33.480
it's much more realistic and lasting and it's a much more accurate reflection of the way things work
01:12:38.800
at least among reasonable people and so what you do is you encourage you encourage young boys
01:12:45.780
literally you don't help them you don't make them safe you don't bother them when they're skateboarding
01:12:51.800
you watch them take their risks and you stand back and you think yeah kid you're gonna bruise yourself
01:12:57.060
man you're gonna cut yourself you're maybe you're gonna break a damn arm but hopefully only once and
01:13:01.540
you'll smarten up a bit as a consequence of that but you know you're you're you're preparing yourself
01:13:06.300
because there's tough things coming down the pipeline in your life and there's people you're
01:13:11.300
gonna bloody well depend on you know and you better be there for them and you're gonna have to be tough
01:13:16.880
not safe give up safe what the hell safe life 100% fatal there's no safety the best you can do is to
01:13:27.420
confront that courageously and to pursue something that's deeply meaningful right that's rule seven do what
01:13:33.580
is meaningful and not what is expedient you look for meaning in your life you find that through
01:13:38.720
responsibility you put that up against the tragedy and the malevolence of existence right you grow up
01:13:45.280
responsible and respectable and awake and wise and you take your place in the world and you act as a
01:13:51.580
cornerstone for your damn civilization and that's what you encourage and the lack of that
01:14:19.300
these are some chairs they are they are they're some some weird uk thing happening here
01:14:36.240
you were funny tonight well thank you yeah you went from a comedian you mean purposefully funny
01:14:43.260
i don't know that's the best kind yeah i think you were purposely funny i hope so yeah yeah feeling
01:14:49.480
good huh yeah not too bad must be this manchester air going online without express vpn is like not
01:14:58.520
paying attention to the safety demonstration on a flight most of the time you'll probably be fine
01:15:03.140
but what if one day that weird yellow mask drops down from overhead and you have no idea what to do
01:15:08.740
in our hyper-connected world your digital privacy isn't just a luxury it's a fundamental right every
01:15:14.300
time you connect to an unsecured network in a cafe hotel or airport you're essentially broadcasting
01:15:19.600
your personal information to anyone with a technical know-how to intercept it and let's be
01:15:23.920
clear it doesn't take a genius hacker to do this with some off-the-shelf hardware even a tech savvy
01:15:29.100
teenager could potentially access your passwords bank logins and credit card details now you might think
01:15:35.120
what's the big deal who'd want my data anyway well on the dark web your personal information could
01:15:40.260
fetch up to one thousand dollars that's right there's a whole underground economy built on stolen
01:15:45.380
identities enter express vpn it's like a digital fortress creating an encrypted tunnel between your
01:15:51.400
device and the internet their encryption is so robust that it would take a hacker with a supercomputer
01:15:56.280
over a billion years to crack it but don't let its power fool you express vpn is incredibly user
01:16:02.000
friendly with just one click you're protected across all your devices phones laptops tablets
01:16:07.000
you name it that's why i use express vpn whenever i'm traveling or working from a coffee shop it gives
01:16:12.260
me peace of mind knowing that my research communications and personal data are shielded
01:16:16.800
from prying eyes secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash jordan that's e-x-p-r-e-s-s-v-p-n
01:16:25.340
dot com slash jordan and you can get an extra three months free expressvpn.com slash jordan
01:16:31.000
starting a business can be tough but thanks to shopify running your online storefront is easier
01:16:39.820
than ever shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business
01:16:44.900
from the launch your online shop stage all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage
01:16:49.640
shopify is here to help you grow our marketing team uses shopify every day to sell our merchandise
01:16:54.960
and we love how easy it is to add more items ship products and track conversions with shopify
01:17:00.760
customize your online store to your style with flexible templates and powerful tools alongside
01:17:05.760
an endless list of integrations and third-party apps like on-demand printing accounting and chatbots
01:17:11.220
shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout up to 36%
01:17:17.000
better compared to other leading e-commerce platforms no matter how big you want to grow shopify gives
01:17:22.260
you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level sign up for a one
01:17:27.280
dollar per month trial period at shopify.com slash jbp all lowercase go to shopify.com slash jbp now to
01:17:34.980
grow your business no matter what stage you're in that's shopify.com slash jbp
01:17:40.160
all right let's get to it in 50 years will students be referencing the joe rogan experience podcast
01:18:01.660
well they are reliable sources i mean one of the things that's great about about the youtube media
01:18:12.380
explosion that you're part of is that they're not edited you know and and so they are reliable because
01:18:23.220
you get to see exactly what's happening and so that's a big plus and you know you and i have both
01:18:30.780
had this experience it's it's quite odd now for me increasingly odd to do network television
01:18:37.400
because i've done a lot of network television and i've done a lot of youtube and podcast interviews and
01:18:43.160
i'll tell you the to step into a television studio feels like stepping 30 years into the past
01:18:49.660
and the reason for that is that you just can't have a conversation with someone
01:18:55.460
in a tv studio it's very rare because everything's so tightly scripted and the person you're talking to
01:19:03.080
isn't a person they might as well be a simulacrum right there because they're not them they're the
01:19:09.240
voice of the show and so everything they do is scripted and so you have this conversation it is it's like
01:19:16.800
talking to a chatbot and not and not necessarily a very sophisticated one because you say something and
01:19:23.140
you expect that a person would carry that forward in a sort of melodic playful way and riff on it and
01:19:32.700
that isn't what happens as you say something and you get a kind of um not exactly a blank stare but
01:19:39.960
uh like i'm an attractive mannequin look that would be the right way of thinking about it and then they
01:19:45.820
ask whatever questions on the list it's like oh i see i guess none of what we just talked about had any
01:19:52.460
content and so you know be better just to provide pre-prepared answers to the pre-prepared questions
01:19:59.280
but the illusion is of a conversation whereas if you do a free-form interview like rogan it's like
01:20:06.760
you don't know what the hell is going to happen that's for sure and there's some real potential for
01:20:11.720
catastrophe there but whatever it is that's happening is it's it's honest in that everyone gets to see
01:20:20.900
all of it there's no a priori goal except let's try to have an interesting conversation and so
01:20:29.220
that is a reliable source so but god only knows what people will be referencing in 50 years i mean
01:20:36.680
jesus i don't even know what we'll be like in 50 years i've been watching the boston dynamics robots
01:20:41.500
there's some new videos have come out have you seen the everyone go look at the boston dynamics robots
01:20:47.100
everyone you got to see them they have one now god it's unbelievable it's this little thing about
01:20:52.780
the size of a dog weighs 35 pounds it can run around for an hour and a half on batteries they
01:20:58.000
had the damn thing dancing to and and twerking which is first time i've heard him say twerking
01:21:06.380
and it even it has an arm that kind of looks like a head and it can open doors and pick up cans and so
01:21:12.700
forth with it but it's so sophisticated now that it can do they call it chicken necking and so like
01:21:18.360
if a chicken this is true of all birds if if a chicken has its it holds its head up and then it
01:21:23.620
moves its body its head stays in the same place so it's sort of like this people kind of do the same
01:21:28.760
thing but you know we don't have such long necks so it's not as obvious this robot could do that
01:21:33.660
it could dance to music like really frenetically and hold its head in exactly the same position
01:21:38.700
go through doors they have one man a man-sized robot that can do backflips you can push it over
01:21:44.620
and it can get back up it's like that these robots they're coming fast and and and and we're making
01:21:51.260
our technology so spectacularly intelligent and god only knows what where we're going to be in 50 years
01:21:57.080
we better get ready because we're getting powerful man we better have our act together because it'll go
01:22:02.040
seriously wrong if we don't so i don't know what the hell people will be referencing in 50 years
01:22:06.960
as long as we're talking rogan next time i have you in studio will you smoke a blunt with me
01:22:13.120
only if you come to canada is it legal in california oh yeah it's now completely legal in canada
01:22:20.560
so that's good so now our completely inadequate prime minister can be stoned out of his gourd all the
01:22:27.680
time maybe that was the problem to begin with all right let's go political here recently a conservative
01:22:39.920
mp was forced to apologize for saying in the eu that the nazis were socialist were they socialist and
01:22:48.240
should the mp have apologized well they called themselves national socialists it's like yeah well
01:22:55.760
look it's it's complicated i'd actually thought about a research project to sort this out you
01:23:00.560
know because here's what you'd have to do to sort it out because it is complicated because um there
01:23:05.920
were the international socialists right and those were the russian communists essentially and there
01:23:10.560
were the national socialists and the national socialists were named in antithesis to the international
01:23:16.880
socialists and part of the reason the nazi movement emerged was as a response to the threat of
01:23:24.640
communist takeover in germany and that was a real threat because germany was in rough shape after
01:23:29.200
world war one i mean you think about it first of all there was all those brutalized men who'd spent
01:23:34.000
all those years in trenches and like that's not good for your mental health and you know they they were
01:23:38.880
they were in rough situation and then the treaty of versailles knocked germany down really hard and and
01:23:45.840
made the country labor under the necessity of reparations and so then they hyperinflated the
01:23:50.880
currency in the 1920s to blow out the debt and what that meant was like hyperinflation is really
01:23:56.480
hard on on good people right because you know the the idea is well you should save some money
01:24:04.400
you know that that's sensible forego gratification um and and and save for the future and and but then
01:24:12.400
if hyperinflation comes along it wipes out your savings and so it wipes out the savings of the
01:24:16.560
people who played the game most honestly and it rewards everybody who spent every cent they had
01:24:22.800
you know so that was depressing i mean you just can't imagine how depressing it would be to
01:24:27.760
you know to see your hard earned pension fund just completely evaporate and they had they had
01:24:34.480
hyperinflation of a magnitude that that maybe it was seen in zimbabwe i think zimbabwe had it worse but
01:24:40.560
it was terrible and so the national national socialism emerged and there was a lot of the policies that
01:24:47.440
were socialist not only in look but also in intent and in advertising so there's a strong socialist bent
01:24:55.920
but what kind of makes it right-wing in some sense is that it was also an ethno-nationalist movement and
01:25:02.400
it seems to me that one of the things that characterizes pathology on the right is over
01:25:09.920
enthusiastic identification with one restricted identity group so it would be ethnic or racial and
01:25:16.400
that was definitely a strong part of the platform of the national socialists that wasn't part of the
01:25:22.320
hypothetical doctrine of universal brotherhood that was put forward by the international socialists
01:25:27.840
so it was an amalgam now i think the way to sort this out and i would love to do this i'd even do
01:25:33.120
it at a university if it wasn't so difficult to do research at universities now um all you'd have to
01:25:40.000
do is take all the imagine you took a set a random set of doctrines from from the soviet union you know
01:25:46.720
policies and transform them so that they were made up to date but kept the the the meaning intact and
01:25:54.240
then do the parallel with the nazi doctrines you know you would eliminate the ones that would
01:25:59.520
this would be a bit tricky that would make it obvious that it was nazis and that would make
01:26:03.440
it a bit tricky and then what you do is make a questionnaire out of both and then you'd administer
01:26:09.280
the questionnaire to people who have identified political belief left or right and you'd see
01:26:13.840
who agreed most with what and if it turned out that the right-wingers were more likely to agree with
01:26:19.520
the national national socialist policies then you could make a fairly strong claim that that
01:26:24.000
was primarily right-wing and if it was the lefties that agreed with say the international
01:26:28.640
socialists and the national socialists then you could say that it was primarily left and i think
01:26:33.680
that's i really think that's an experiment like that's an experiment that a survey that could be
01:26:38.720
done that should be done see one of the things that happened after the after the second world war was
01:26:45.760
that there was an insistence among social scientists took me like four decades to figure this out because
01:26:50.720
it's such a mess i had to do a tremendous amount of reading that insisted that there was only
01:26:56.800
authoritarianism on the right and that was the predominant view in the social sciences from 1947 1948 right
01:27:04.800
till probably 2005 2006 my students started to put together an authoritarian leftist measurement instrument
01:27:16.480
but nothing like that had ever been created because there was an insistence especially by the uh
01:27:21.200
the the the uh what the hell do you call them it was horkheimer and his group and and
01:27:29.600
it's named after a city in germany frankfurt group there was an insistence from them that
01:27:35.280
authoritarianism was only a right-wing phenomena and so then there was an attempt to paint what happened in
01:27:40.160
nazi germany as purely a right-wing movement and um and that was definitely part of the desire to
01:27:49.360
absolve the left and so so there's a lot of intellectual crookedness about that and it hasn't
01:27:55.280
been sorted out properly and that was actually one of the things that i was trying to do with my students
01:28:00.800
before i stopped being stopped working as a university professor like my my student christine brophy
01:28:08.240
who's working on a high school version of the future authoring program um that was her next
01:28:12.880
project was an authoritarian leftist measurement instrument we'd already made some good measurement
01:28:19.200
instruments for assessing conservatism and looking at its underlying structure and so on so the
01:28:24.400
psychometrics haven't been done properly so the answer is we actually don't know and i think it's an
01:28:29.040
amalgam it might be an amalgam of the worst of the left and the worst of the right but they define
01:28:35.200
themselves as national socialists and the idea that you can be pilloried for noting that that was
01:28:41.520
a self-description and there were certainly socialist elements in their in their platform i mean they
01:28:46.880
were the nazis weren't libertarians by any stretch of the imagination they wanted a very powerful
01:28:52.320
centralized state and so the degree how that that's certainly not what like north american conservatives
01:28:59.360
want they want a small state and so it really is something that has to be sorted out and it's
01:29:04.800
something i'd like to do if i ever get time to do it so apparently you got a bunch of other things
01:29:12.400
going on these days huh oh i like this one i consider it a curse to be an intelligent and independent
01:29:20.880
thinker i feel my life would be happier if i were quote stupid
01:29:27.440
oh yeah that's the old ignorance is bliss oh yeah that's the old would you rather be i think was this
01:29:32.480
spinoza might have been spinoza might not have been well would you rather be a happy pig or an
01:29:38.320
unhappy philosopher right so that's basically the question and
01:29:42.080
i'm trying to remember exactly i gotta gotta remember this properly
01:29:58.400
i can't remember i'll just have to paraphrase it
01:30:02.320
dostievsky wrote about this too it's like well what makes you think you'd give up your misery
01:30:07.280
you know like people are self-conscious and that was presented in genesis the development
01:30:13.360
of self-consciousness is presented as a cataclysm right an absolute cataclysm an event that shattered
01:30:19.520
the structure of reality when people became aware of their own nakedness and mortality and the scales
01:30:24.800
fell from their eyes and woke up and discovered death and and suffering you know and it's tainted life
01:30:31.360
and that's exactly the complaint here it's like the complaint is something like i find my
01:30:36.480
expanded consciousness unbearable it's like well yeah no kidding look at what you see
01:30:42.640
around you you know you see limitation and suffering and maybe you see that even more intently
01:30:47.920
think well wouldn't it be better to just be as unconscious as an animal well
01:30:55.520
that ship sailed a long time ago you know and it's not like we don't regress that's one of the
01:31:01.600
the things alcohol does you know alcohol is definitely a drug that invites the flight into
01:31:06.800
unconsciousness partly because it works as an anxiolytic um so one of the problems with being
01:31:13.120
self-conscious is that you're aware that stupid things you do will hurt you that's very annoying
01:31:18.640
it's one of the terrible things about being awake it's like oh god that would be fun oh yes but then i'd
01:31:24.320
have to suffer for it oh no that means i can't have fun better go get drunk
01:31:31.440
then the fact that it might hurt me won't bother me and i can have some fun and that that is exactly
01:31:36.880
what alcohol does and it's a it's a it's a negative transcendence which is how aldous huxley described
01:31:42.560
alcohol and it's very tempting and no bloody wonder it's like people are rushing all the time to escape
01:31:48.400
from the burden of their self acute self-consciousness like self-consciousness as a phenomena
01:31:54.560
phenomenon loads on trait neuroticism so you know because to say well i got self-conscious when i
01:32:01.600
talk it's like well that's an elevated form of consciousness but it's very painful because it
01:32:05.600
makes you aware of your inadequacy okay there's a great book about this by the way it's a very hard
01:32:10.400
book but it's a great book called the origins and history of consciousness by a man named eric neumann
01:32:15.680
i was just talking to camille pellia yesterday um she just wrote a new book and she wrote an essay
01:32:22.400
about 20 years ago suggesting that the best thinker for english for for literary critics to have chosen
01:32:31.200
as an alternative to derrida and foucault would have been eric neumann who was a student of jung's and i
01:32:36.480
agree with that origins and history of consciousness is a brilliant book and one of the things he points
01:32:41.520
out is that there's a struggle in human beings self-conscious consciousness has to struggle
01:32:47.360
upwards and it's pulled downwards by the desire for unconsciousness that's part of the oedipal
01:32:53.200
catastrophe of freud it's like because an over-dependent mother can say look kiddo going out in the in
01:32:59.520
the world and challenging yourself and developing that self-consciousness is going to introduce you to
01:33:04.000
a world of pain and agony as you become more and more aware it's like i can pull you back and shelter
01:33:09.840
you from all that now the problem is is that there's a crippling that goes along with that
01:33:14.320
but it's in see jung characterized that oedipal relationship as a as a conspiracy between mother
01:33:20.080
and child it's not something the mother imposes it's like a it's like a pathological invitation it's
01:33:25.600
like just stay with me and you'll never have to face the catastrophes of the world it's like well that's
01:33:31.360
a potent invitation given the catastrophes of the world you see this reflected as well i wrote about
01:33:37.360
this in 12 rules that famous statue by michelangelo the pieta right where you see mary holding the
01:33:44.000
broken body of christ in her arms it's like that's the female crucifixion in some sense it's like because
01:33:50.160
what a woman has to do with her son is offer him up to be broken by the world and he has to take that
01:33:56.480
responsibility onto himself and so that's a dreadful thing and so then the question is what do you do
01:34:02.000
about it and see this is part of what struck me so hard about christianity in as a as a philosophical
01:34:08.160
system and it's it's judeo-christianity more broadly speaking and maybe even the sum total of
01:34:14.560
the searching for human wisdom across all of the time that we've been self-consciousness what's the
01:34:20.160
antidote to self-consciousness well one is a return to unconscious oblivion and that that's a suicidal
01:34:28.960
desire it might even be a genocidal desire you know it might underlie our desire to drive ourselves
01:34:34.960
to the brink of nuclear destruction saying that it would be better if being itself didn't exist
01:34:40.240
because of its suffering that's one way out it'll obliterate everything because of its suffering the
01:34:47.200
other way out is more consciousness more attention more of what's more of what's poisoning you
01:34:55.280
because that's the way out is to become more conscious and the so here i'll give you an
01:35:01.120
example this is one of the most brilliant things i've ever seen there's this painting that was done
01:35:05.360
in the middle ages it's in it's in my book maps of meaning and it's a tree and it's the tree of the
01:35:11.360
knowledge of good and evil and and and and and the tree has has uh on one half of it it it's it's
01:35:23.440
okay it's okay it's all right i'll just finish i appreciate it but it's it's okay you were just
01:35:27.920
going to show me the picture i believe but i'll just go on with it so all right so on on half of the
01:35:33.840
tree there's apples and the apples are skulls okay and so you see um eve picking the apple skulls and
01:35:43.600
handing them to humanity and so that's the discovery of death and that's a catastrophe right if that's
01:35:49.840
the emergence into self-consciousness and that that is portrayed in our most fundamental narratives as us
01:35:55.840
as a split in the structure of reality itself and given the importance role that consciousness plays
01:36:01.280
in reality i think that that's a reasonable statement something broke when we became
01:36:05.680
self-conscious we became aware of our own mortality and that's when evil entered the world because
01:36:10.720
you can't be cruel until you understand your own vulnerability you can't know how to hurt other
01:36:16.480
people until you know that you can be hurt so when you discover your own limitations the knowledge
01:36:21.280
of good and evil enters the world okay so there's the tree and on one half of it are the apple skulls
01:36:27.440
and eve is distributing them and then on the other half there's there's a there's a skull at the top
01:36:32.720
of the tree and the other half there's a crucifix with christ in the tree and then there's other
01:36:37.040
apples but they're the wheat and hosts that are part of the transformation mass right so that's the body
01:36:42.320
and bread of christ and so the church a female it's the negative and positive female the church is handing
01:36:49.200
out these hosts to other human beings to invite them to be cured of what the apple how the apple poisoned
01:36:58.320
them and so there's an idea there and the idea is it's a very complicated idea that's why it's expressed
01:37:03.840
in this painting and we've been trying to figure out what this idea means for thousands and thousands
01:37:07.840
of years it's so complicated it means that if you take on the burden of mortality and you and you face
01:37:16.880
that completely that will produce in you a series of transformations that are somewhat akin to deaths
01:37:22.880
and resurrections and that will elevate your consciousness to the point where you can transcend
01:37:28.320
the catastrophe of self-consciousness and so that's the meaning of the eating of the body and blood of
01:37:34.320
christ that's the idea it's an unbelievable unbelievably profound idea that more consciousness is
01:37:41.440
the cure for what half consciousness poisons you with and that that requires this burning off of
01:37:48.320
dead with dead wood and constant re-transformation then you might say well is that only psychological
01:37:53.920
right because you could read it only symbolically but you might say well you don't know because
01:37:59.280
if you if people turn around and and accept the full catastrophic reality of their existence and that's
01:38:06.000
this terrible self-consciousness and decide that they're going to struggle forward admirably despite
01:38:11.920
that then they actually start to contend with it and fix it and here's an open question you know
01:38:18.480
there's this idea of the genie and the genie is genius and the genie is infinite potential
01:38:23.600
constrained in in something very tiny and that's us you know we have this terrible constraint but there's
01:38:30.160
like an infinite potential within us that's what makes us akin to deity in some sense and makes us
01:38:36.800
makes us made in the image of god and and is the foundation for our value our intrinsic value
01:38:43.600
before the law we we treat this very seriously that potential lies within you what would happen if you
01:38:51.120
revealed it fully well maybe we would not only dispense with our cowardice in the face of suffering
01:38:57.200
it's maybe we would overcome and i don't even know what this means precisely maybe we would
01:39:02.000
overcome suffering itself maybe we would overcome malevolence itself we don't know what we're capable
01:39:07.680
of and so that's the answer to that question it's like no you don't shrink backwards all that does is
01:39:14.320
make things worse it turns you into an animal but that doesn't even work because it's too late for that
01:39:18.880
you can't go back there's no going back there's only going forward and and going forward in the full
01:39:27.040
sense means it means full acceptance of the entire catastrophe of existence and then forthright attempt to
01:39:47.840
i feel like we should we should roll with this so what tools
01:39:52.560
to peep should people use to actually do that i mean if you were if you were in a clinical practice
01:39:57.680
with somebody and they were coming to you with this what would you tell them
01:40:01.360
well if you look at the sermon on the mount for example the sermon on the mount is a very
01:40:06.000
interesting psychological document because it's a meditation on what constitutes that which is of
01:40:12.160
central value and so it's part of so what happens in the old testament in some sense is that human
01:40:17.840
beings watch each other act and then they conjure up a set of rules that approximately encapsulates
01:40:24.080
civilized action and so that would be the expanded decalogue the the law
01:40:29.920
right and and the law wasn't imposed from the top down
01:40:40.560
the structure of morality and then said okay well here's
01:40:43.840
what it would look like if you made it into rules
01:40:46.560
you know it's like a wolf pack watched what it did and said oh here's wolf pack rules
01:40:50.560
you know and they're not rules to begin with they're just patterns patterns become rules
01:40:55.840
and then you can follow the rules but then you have the problem of the rules it's like well the
01:40:59.520
rules conflict with one another so like what's the greatest rule this is what happens in the new
01:41:03.840
testament a lot because christ annoys everyone by pitting one rule against another so he heals on the
01:41:10.160
sabbath it's like well is that good or bad well he's trying to point out that you have to produce
01:41:15.520
a hierarchy of rules so that you can produce what constitutes the highest value and in the sermon
01:41:20.720
on the mount the idea is that it's something like this it's a bit of an oversimplification but it will
01:41:26.240
do is that you want to orient yourself towards the highest good that you can possibly conceive of
01:41:32.640
and that gives your life purpose real purpose and that that that orientation would be something like
01:41:39.840
the constraint of suffering and and but not in just a merely compassionate manner because that
01:41:46.080
doesn't solve the problem right it's a serious problem to address suffering and the constraint
01:41:50.560
of malevolence that's partly why christ meets the devil in the desert right you have to you have to
01:41:55.920
transcend evil and you have to you have to you have to face suffering those are those are the
01:42:01.680
part and parcel of developing that that ultimate vision and that vision is something like well it's it's
01:42:08.080
it's whatever is going to stand for you as the highest value and that'd be the relationship with
01:42:12.800
god if you put it religiously it's to live the best life you can possibly imagine and that's going to
01:42:18.480
change a bit as you get wiser but that's what you're aiming at right it's like i often tell people you
01:42:23.600
watch the movie pinocchio you know and geppetto wishes on a star and that starts the transformation
01:42:29.360
process of his creation the wooden headed puppet who's nothing but a marionette manipulated from behind
01:42:35.280
the scenes geppetto raises his eyes above the horizon looks to that which glitters in the
01:42:40.800
darkness and makes a wish it's a transformation wish and that gets the ball rolling and that's what
01:42:45.600
you need in your own life you have to decide that there isn't going to be anything that takes the
01:42:50.400
place of you aiming at the highest possible good then you concentrate on the day and that's and then you
01:42:59.600
stumble forward that way you know and rule four is compare yourself to who you were yesterday and
01:43:05.680
not to who someone else is today it's like okay you're not everything you could be you bloody well
01:43:10.240
know it and maybe you're too resentful and miserable and bitter and burdened by your self-consciousness to
01:43:15.600
wanting to do anything about it but that's not helpful it it's a road it's the pathway to hell for all
01:43:22.560
intents and purposes you orient yourself and you stand up straight and face things courageously and try to
01:43:29.520
find the highest value because what what do you have that's better to do than that and then you move
01:43:35.520
towards it and you focus on the day and you do everything you can during the day to act responsibly
01:43:40.720
and truthfully and to set things right and that atones that that brings things together and that
01:43:47.840
that's in that manner you partake in the creation of the world i would say in the creation of the world
01:43:53.360
that's good and that's your ethical responsibility and in that there might be sufficient meaning to
01:43:59.360
justify the suffering of life i think that that's accurate it seems to me to be that that works and
01:44:06.080
you know i have people they come and talk to me all the time these guys that i talked to this morning
01:44:10.320
many of them they say you know look i was miserable and doing a bunch of bad things by their own
01:44:16.560
definition you know and they decided they were going to take on some responsibility and bear a heavy
01:44:22.640
burden and try to and try to make things better and to be more honest and what they report is well
01:44:31.840
everything is way better it's like yes well then you ask yourself how much better could we make things
01:44:39.200
i had this vision once of heaven you know it's a very powerful vision and heaven was a place where
01:44:44.880
where everything was it was like a place where you were eternally playing like a child in in a in a place
01:44:52.640
that that a father who loved you had prepared for you there was that joy in it but the joy was of a
01:44:58.240
very particular sort because it was a joy that was aimed at producing the next level of joy so it was
01:45:04.480
like a heaven that would reveal another heaven within it and then that would reveal another heaven within
01:45:09.280
that and that there was no limit to that and maybe that's our destiny to do that and maybe that's what
01:45:15.520
we're struggling to do now i mean we're we're at a pretty low level heaven at the moment but but it
01:45:21.520
could be it could be much better and i think that that's what music expresses to us you know when i listen
01:45:26.480
to a box say a third brandenburg concerto it it it it there's a pattern that emerges it's beautiful it's
01:45:34.720
like an architectural motif you know like like a flower that's opening up and out of that comes
01:45:40.320
another one and it's even greater and out of that comes another one it's this continually on continual
01:45:45.520
unfolding of crystalline beauty you see that in your great cathedrals there there are expressions of that
01:45:51.840
in stone and lattice this beautiful tapestry of structure and and light that that's a representative
01:45:59.520
of well it's a representative of the heavenly city essentially it's a representative of what we
01:46:03.920
could be striving to create and so and that's what you do with your terrible burden of self-consciousness
01:46:10.800
you know and you do that in the day-to-day struggles that you have and you start small
01:46:14.400
and humbly because that's where you start there's plenty to fix up around you you know and and and
01:46:22.400
there's no limit to that and i really believe that i don't have any idea this is the problem with 50
01:46:27.520
years in the future is god only knows what we could create and and what we're what we're destined to
01:46:32.880
create we're on the cusp of a new age and if we if we aimed properly maybe we could tilt everything so
01:46:41.520
that it would get better and better and better and better and better you know what do they say
01:46:45.360
to those who have more will be given and from those who have nothing everything will be taken and
01:46:51.360
so maybe we could decide that we would like to be those who have to whom more would be given and we
01:46:56.800
start by giving to ourselves you know and and and participating in the process of creative
01:47:02.240
production and and and and the amelioration of suffering and the combat with malevolence within
01:47:08.240
ourselves and that's this that's look it's a central message of our culture to do that what are we wrong
01:47:14.880
about that look at what we've built because of it it's no time to give up faith in that it's time to
01:47:21.120
redouble the faith and as nietzsche said there's never been true christians
01:47:35.680
and that ladies and gentlemen is how you end a show so i am going to get out of the way and make
01:47:43.200
if you found this conversation meaningful you might think about picking up dad's books
01:47:49.520
maps of meaning the architecture of belief or his newer bestseller 12 rules for life an antidote
01:47:54.080
to chaos both of these works delve much deeper into the topics covered in the jordan b peterson
01:47:58.320
podcast see jordanbpeterson.com for audio ebook and text links or pick up the books at your favorite
01:48:04.320
bookseller i really hope you enjoyed this podcast if you did please leave a rating at apple podcasts a
01:48:09.760
comment to review or share this episode with a friend if you didn't keep it to yourself we're
01:48:14.640
still at five stars thanks for tuning in and talk to you next week follow me on my youtube channel
01:48:20.320
jordan b peterson on twitter at jordan b peterson on facebook at dr jordan b peterson and at instagram
01:48:28.480
at jordan.b.peterson details on this show access to my blog information about my tour dates and other
01:48:36.720
events and my list of recommended books can be found on my website jordanbpeterson.com my online
01:48:44.000
writing programs designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present
01:48:50.000
and develop a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found at self-authoring.com
01:48:56.160
that's self-authoring.com from the westwood one podcast network
01:49:07.840
when a woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy she often feels alone and afraid too often her first
01:49:13.840
response is to seek out an abortion because that's what left-leaning institutions have conditioned her to
01:49:19.040
do but because of the generosity of listeners like you that search may lead her to a pre-born network
01:49:24.720
clinic where by the grace of god she'll choose life not just for her baby but for herself pre-born
01:49:30.960
offers god's love and compassion to hurting women and provides a free ultrasound to introduce them to
01:49:35.760
the life growing inside them this combination helps women to choose life and it's how pre-born saves 200
01:49:42.160
babies every single day thanks to the daily wire's partnership with pre-born we're able to make our
01:49:47.360
powerful documentary choosing life available to all on daily wire plus join us in thanking
01:49:53.440
pre-born for bringing this important work out from behind our paywall and consider making a donation
01:49:58.400
today to support their life-saving work you can sponsor one ultrasound for just 28 if you have the
01:50:04.480
means you can sponsor pre-born's entire network for a day for five thousand dollars make a donation
01:50:09.760
today just dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby that's pound 250 baby or go to pre-born.com