The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - Value is Bound by Limitation

00:00:00.960 Hey everyone, real quick before you skip, I want to talk to you about something serious and important.

00:00:06.480 Dr. Jordan Peterson has created a new series that could be a lifeline for those battling depression and anxiety.

00:00:12.760 We know how isolating and overwhelming these conditions can be,

00:00:16.120 and we wanted to take a moment to reach out to those listening who may be struggling.

00:00:20.100 With decades of experience helping patients,

00:00:22.620 Dr. Peterson offers a unique understanding of why you might be feeling this way in his new series.

00:00:27.400 He provides a roadmap towards healing, showing that while the journey isn't easy,

00:00:32.160 it's absolutely possible to find your way forward.

00:00:35.360 If you're suffering, please know you are not alone.

00:00:38.520 There's hope, and there's a path to feeling better.

00:00:41.800 Go to Daily Wire Plus now and start watching Dr. Jordan B. Peterson on depression and anxiety.

00:00:47.480 Let this be the first step towards the brighter future you deserve.

00:00:57.400 Welcome to Season 2, Episode 36 of the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast.

00:01:02.760 I'm Mikayla Peterson, Dad's daughter and collaborator.

00:01:05.640 Today's episode is a 12 Rules for Life lecture recorded in Vancouver on December 5th, 2018.

00:01:11.860 I've named it Value is Bound by Limitation.

00:01:15.560 No family updates this week.

00:01:17.340 I hope everyone's Thanksgiving goes splendidly.

00:01:20.140 I'm about to embark on an 11-day fast.

00:01:22.880 If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you'll know I did a 7-day fast in September,

00:01:27.820 which was easier than I thought it would be, but also rather intense.

00:01:31.580 Turns out Dad has done a 10-day fast about 10 years ago,

00:01:35.120 which I have no recollection of because of the hordes of medication I was on and the autoimmune disorder,

00:01:40.160 but my brother remembers it.

00:01:41.940 So it's on.

00:01:43.020 11 days for me this time.

00:01:44.760 Because apparently everything is a contest.

00:01:47.580 Enjoy the podcast.

00:01:48.820 I'll keep people posted about the fast on YouTube at Mikayla Peterson.

00:01:51.840 Thank you very much.

00:02:07.600 It's really nice to be back in Vancouver.

00:02:11.380 I think I've spoken here more than in any other city.

00:02:15.480 I don't know what it is.

00:02:16.860 You guys don't have anybody to listen to, apparently.

00:02:19.340 So, but I think I've done five talks here in the last two years, something like that.

00:02:27.720 One of them with Sam Harris, which was, I think, in July.

00:02:30.760 So, anyways, so it's lovely to be back.

00:02:34.420 I always enjoy it.

00:02:35.440 I have a lot of family here, too, which is quite nice out on Vancouver Island and in Vancouver.

00:02:39.720 And there, about nine of them are here tonight, so that's really nice.

00:02:43.140 There's an old friend here, too, I think, from Fairview named Dale Billis.

00:02:47.620 And I don't know where he is.

00:02:49.120 You out there, Dale?

00:02:50.520 Hey, you're right there.

00:02:54.680 Come see me backstage, man.

00:02:57.500 All right.

00:02:58.340 All right.

00:02:58.840 You don't see people from Fairview that often.

00:03:00.820 So, all right.

00:03:02.500 So, I thought what I'd do tonight, I use these lectures as an opportunity to think on my feet

00:03:09.280 and to try out what I'm thinking about, you know, and to communicate it so I can see if

00:03:14.680 it's working, you know, because if your thoughts are well formulated, then, well, then hopefully

00:03:21.380 they're somewhat engrossing and pull people in.

00:03:24.660 And so, I thought what I'd do tonight is I'd just review the rules in Twelve Rules, the

00:03:31.820 full set of rules, because I've been talking about them so much now, and also new ideas

00:03:37.320 as well, because I have another book mostly sketched out now.

00:03:42.900 It's called, it's going to be called Beyond Mere Order, Another Twelve Rules for Life.

00:03:50.440 Well, I figure, why quit when you're ahead, you know?

00:03:53.720 I mean, and I derived the original Twelve Rules from a longer list of 42 anyways, and

00:04:01.440 so, I've been working on that, but I thought I would take tonight, take the opportunity tonight

00:04:10.100 to think back on everything that's happened over the last year, all the lectures that I've

00:04:16.320 done, and to see if I can zero in on the essential elements of Twelve Rules and the body of thought

00:04:25.080 that I've been developing to pull it down to its essential elements, and to understand

00:04:31.440 a little bit more clearly what's the nature of the dialogue that we're engaged in, and that

00:04:36.760 also seems to be attracting an audience all around the world, which is kind of an incomprehensible

00:04:44.480 thing in some sense.

00:04:45.480 You know, I don't exactly, I can't really wrap my head around it.

00:04:48.700 I know, I have this Korean publisher named Maven, and they contacted me two weeks ago.

00:04:54.580 I made a little video for my Korean readers, because it's been translated into Korean, and

00:04:59.480 that's been, I hope that's been subtitled by now.

00:05:01.880 But they said they sold, I think they sold 100,000 copies in Korea in like three weeks,

00:05:06.200 which is just, and they're printing another 100,000 for January, and you know, I mean, it's

00:05:12.040 quite a different culture, right, you wouldn't necessarily expect the ideas or the book to translate

00:05:18.120 across those cultural barriers, but it seems to be, and you know, I was just in Europe with

00:05:23.680 my wife, and with Dave, we hit about 20 different cities throughout the UK, mostly up in Scandinavia,

00:05:33.760 where there was quite a bit of scandal, for reasons that I might go into a little bit

00:05:39.100 tonight.

00:05:40.100 And, again, there seems to be a very, there's a hunger, or a thirst, a demand of some sort

00:05:48.300 for something about what I'm talking about, and, I mean, it doesn't surprise me in one

00:05:53.400 sense, because one of the things that I've done with my lectures, and also with 12 Rules

00:05:57.760 for Life, is distill what I regard as about 150 years of clinical wisdom, and solid research

00:06:05.620 psychology, you know, into the lectures in the book, and you'd hope, you'd hope if you

00:06:11.160 were the least bit optimistic about clinical practice, and about science, that one of the

00:06:16.340 consequences of 150 years of continual effort on the part of, you know, a number of very great

00:06:22.000 people, and then a whole slew of researchers, would be the provision of information that would

00:06:26.380 actually be helpful and useful, you know, and, and to ally that with, with, with a discussion

00:06:32.680 of, of, I would say, relevant and, and, and, and, well, relevant and practical philosophical

00:06:42.060 ideas, and maybe also theological ideas, to make all that practical, it makes some sense

00:06:46.820 that that would be useful to people, but it's still quite shocking, the degree to which people

00:06:52.060 find it useful, and so, I'm going to reflect on that a little bit tonight, and see if I can

00:06:56.860 get a little bit clearer about why that might be, so the first thing I'm going to do is just go

00:07:00.700 through the rules, and then I'm going to talk about each of them, and perhaps I'll get to all

00:07:05.120 12 of them, although I seem to rarely manage that in the course of a lecture, but I'm going to see if I

00:07:09.720 can do it tonight, because that would be a nice way to close off the year, and as Dave said, this is the

00:07:13.860 last lecture in this long tour series, um, Tammy, my wife, and I are going to be going to Australia

00:07:21.340 in, um, February, and maybe to Singapore, and Hong Kong, and Seoul as well, but although those dates

00:07:28.520 haven't been announced yet, but this is it for this long stretch of, of traveling, and, um, so it's a good

00:07:36.460 time, good night to reflect, so the first rule is to stand up straight with your shoulders back, and

00:07:42.140 the second rule is to treat yourself like you're someone responsible for helping, and the third

00:07:50.020 rule is allied with that, I would say, and I tried to weave the rules together in the book, so that each

00:07:55.840 of them supported the other, you know, so that they weren't a collection of 12 independent essays, but,

00:08:00.480 but interrelated, so, you know, every, every chapter supported every other chapter, and built on them,

00:08:07.640 there's an understructure as well, a conceptual understructure that

00:08:10.960 was based in the first book that I wrote called Maps of Meaning, uh, and, and, uh, I hope to

00:08:17.100 continue that as well with the, with the next book that I'm writing. The third rule is conceptually

00:08:21.640 related to the second quite tightly, and that is to make friends with the people who want the best

00:08:27.340 for you, and then the fourth rule, which is, uh, what would you say, it, it, it's a rule that offers some

00:08:34.280 protection against resentment, I would say, while also allowing you still to posit an ideal, and to

00:08:40.360 pursue a goal, and that is to compare yourself to who you were yesterday, and not to who someone else

00:08:46.500 is today. And the fifth rule, which is the one that I thought I would get in the most trouble for,

00:08:51.700 actually, um, is don't let your children do anything that make you, that makes you dislike them.

00:08:58.360 I thought for sure that I was going to get in trouble for that, because, you know, you're not

00:09:03.260 supposed to admit publicly that children can be dislikable, even though everyone absolutely knows

00:09:08.380 that that's true, and, and, and has known that ever since they were children, and had people they

00:09:15.080 didn't like. And so, and then the, the other taboo is, of course, that, to admit ever that parents

00:09:21.240 could dislike their own children. It's like, I mean, people know that, and, and experience it very

00:09:26.500 frequently, sometimes all the time, and, um, but it's taboo to make that conscious in some sense, and

00:09:33.440 which is a very strange thing, because, of course, it's, it's part and parcel of clinical lore, in some

00:09:39.120 sense, that one of the problems that people have, that cause psychological difficulty, is his problems

00:09:45.460 with their family members. I mean, even though those are the people, hypothetically, that you love, and

00:09:49.960 also hypothetically, that you like, and also hypothetically, that are good for you, um, it's also a set

00:09:56.440 of relationships that can be absolutely rife with trouble, and it's very useful to know that forthrightly,

00:10:01.660 and to admit to it, so that you can deal with it properly, and, and that's, it's painful, because you

00:10:07.440 have to think about it, but that's, um, it's not as painful as having to act out the consequences of

00:10:12.700 not thinking about it, which is, of course, why we think, at least in principle, when we do, which we

00:10:18.140 rarely do, um, rule six, I think it's, it's the darkest chapter in the book, and I think, in some

00:10:26.060 sense, it's, it's the core of the dark element of, of, of 12 rules for life, and that's to put your

00:10:32.740 house in perfect order before you criticize the world, and it's a discussion of people who've done

00:10:38.320 terrible things, committed terrible crimes, and what their motivations might be, and how you could avoid

00:10:44.200 drifting in that direction, because it's a direction that has its temptations, which is why

00:10:50.340 people drift in that direction, rule seven is to do what's meaningful, and not what is expedient,

00:10:56.160 and that's a, that's a lovely thing to know, and it's allied tightly with rule eight, the two go

00:11:00.840 together, because you can't really do one without the other, rule eight is to tell the truth, or at

00:11:06.080 least don't lie, and one of the things that I think I've figured out is that if you're going to

00:11:10.080 follow, the instinct for meaning, and I truly believe that there is an instinct for meaning, and

00:11:15.620 not only that there is an instinct for meaning, but that it's the most real thing that there is,

00:11:21.180 um, and that it's, it's an unerring guide, but it only works if you don't corrupt the structure of

00:11:29.320 your psyche, or your soul, that's another way of thinking about it, a more archaic sense, you can't

00:11:34.660 trust your instincts if you, if you, if you, if you, uh, corrupt the structure of the, of, of your

00:11:42.780 perceptions, and your, and your thoughts, how can you rely on yourself, if, if, if, if you, if you, if you've, if you've

00:11:50.340 made the structure that you need to rely on, uh, dysfunctional, because you've, you've, you've added

00:11:57.760 noise and nonsense to it, and so if you're going to follow the instinct for meaning, then it's very

00:12:02.820 important to tell the truth, or at least not to lie, which is easier than telling the truth, because, you

00:12:09.240 know, what do we know about the truth? Not, not enough with our biases, and our, and our unalienable

00:12:16.020 ignorance, but we can at least strive not to say, and do things that we know to be false, which is a good

00:12:22.560 start, and it's a safe, it's a safe start, let's say, especially compared to the alternative. Rule nine is

00:12:30.040 to assume that the person that you're listening to might know something you don't, and that's,

00:12:38.300 that's a useful rule, I think. It's one of the things I loved about clinical practice, because I got to

00:12:43.820 listen to people a lot, you know, for hours a day, um, for many, many years, and one of the things I

00:12:50.100 learned about people was that they're unbearably interesting if you listen to them, which is often

00:12:54.540 why you don't, because you don't actually want to talk to someone who's unbearably interesting,

00:12:59.060 right, because while the conversation becomes too strange, that's part of it, or, or too heavy in

00:13:05.100 some sense, because, well, people, first of all, are idiosyncratic and peculiar if they actually tell

00:13:10.840 you what they're like, and that's very interesting, but it's, it's disconcerting, because it's, it's kind

00:13:16.600 of, what would you call, reassuring to think that people are mostly like you, and, well, they are,

00:13:24.400 you know, we're all human, and we share, we share enough fundamental humanity so that we

00:13:30.440 can communicate, but the differences aren't trivial, and, of course, people take very different

00:13:35.580 pathways in their lives, and so, listening to that, well, you, there's, there's a, there's a real

00:13:41.580 element of enjoyment in the same way that you might enjoy a novel, you know, because if you're

00:13:46.160 engrossed in a novel, you're engrossed inside someone else's life in some sense, and that's very

00:13:52.120 interesting, but it can also be too much, you know, one of the things Carl Rogers said

00:13:57.860 was that most of us can't listen because we don't have the courage to put ourselves in

00:14:03.760 someone else's, we can't, we don't have the courage to, to enter someone else's perceptual

00:14:09.960 frame and see what the world might look like to them, because that poses a real challenge

00:14:14.640 to the way that we look at the world, and the way that we each look at the world holds

00:14:18.040 our world together, you know, and I'll talk about that a little bit as we return to the

00:14:22.260 rules, as the discussion progresses, so, to listen to someone like they might know something

00:14:28.260 you don't, it's frightening, but the thing is, if you don't know enough, you can tell

00:14:34.980 you don't know enough, you can tell if you don't know enough, if your life isn't everything

00:14:38.540 it should be, right, I mean, if your life is everything that you'd want it to be in every

00:14:43.000 possible way, then you know enough, and you can sit there comfortably, and, and you don't

00:14:47.120 need to expose yourself to anything new, but if there's still problems that you have,

00:14:51.480 it's always the, there's always the possibility that someone will have a little bit of a key,

00:14:56.760 a little bit of a piece of the puzzle that they might be able to offer to you as a consequence

00:15:00.860 of their own experience, if you have a genuine conversation with them, and that'll just, you

00:15:04.940 know, that, that might, that might provide you with that little piece that you need to

00:15:08.380 make something click together, that's of vital importance to you, and even if you have

00:15:12.360 to filter out a tremendous amount of the conversation, which you also have to do with your

00:15:16.960 own thoughts, I mean, they have to be filtered, so that you can keep what's, what's, what's

00:15:22.500 wheat and throw away what's chaff, even if you have to throw 95% of it away, well, walking

00:15:28.980 away with that additional 5% is something that's worth doing, and so, rule 10, that's to be precise

00:15:36.540 in your speech, and I like that one, because it's associated with the idea of aim, and that's

00:15:41.900 an unbelievably important idea, a very, very fundamental idea, because we're aiming creatures,

00:15:47.100 you know, our perceptions are oriented around our aims, this is one of the most important

00:15:52.620 things you can possibly come to understand, I would say, is associated with that rule 10,

00:15:57.780 most important psychological facts that you can understand, this is something psychologists

00:16:02.100 have really only worked out, I would say, in the last three decades, something like that,

00:16:05.680 is that we orient our perceptions around our moral aims, and that's really something to,

00:16:12.820 it's, it's, it's like there's an old buddhist idea, you know, that the world is illusion,

00:16:17.660 and, and, and that's true in a very complex way, it's not true in a simple way, but it's true

00:16:23.700 in the complex way, in that your perceptions, the way that you, with the way the world manifests

00:16:29.800 itself to you, and I'm not talking about your opinions, I'm not talking about what you think,

00:16:33.620 I'm talking about the facts that make themselves manifest to you, the things that you see out

00:16:39.240 there that appear to be self-evident, are associated irretrievably with your, with your aims, with,

00:16:47.120 with what you're attempting to accomplish, and that's, that's directly associated with your moral

00:16:53.540 structure, and so you see the world through your moral structure, and that is really, I tell you,

00:16:59.860 man, you can meditate on that for about a decade, it's such a stag, well, it's such a staggering

00:17:04.300 realization to understand that the world lays itself out for you through the lens of your moral

00:17:11.480 striving, and that that's technically true, it's, it's not hypothetically true, it's, it's metaphysically

00:17:17.640 true, and it's philosophically true, but it also turns out to be neurologically true,

00:17:21.500 true, and it makes a certain amount of sense, because, you know, you, you are, after all,

00:17:25.720 not just an information gathering creature, you're not just someone who's, who's, who's a machine

00:17:31.820 that's designed to reflect or understand the structure of the objective world, that's not

00:17:36.140 what a human being is, a human being is someone who's striving in the world to, to accomplish

00:17:41.660 whatever it need, whatever it is that needs to be accomplished to stay alive, and to, and

00:17:47.620 to propagate life, right, I mean, you, you've got a telos, you've got an orientation, and

00:17:52.100 an aim, and a meaning, and the fact that your perceptions would be tuned to help with that

00:17:57.940 is somewhat of a truism in some sense, right, how could it be otherwise, it's not like you're

00:18:03.020 objective, right, you're certainly interested in your own, well, let's say at least in your

00:18:07.400 own lack of pain, if, if, if nothing else, and so why wouldn't your perception serve that,

00:18:13.780 but your perception serve that, and then your motivations fall in line, and then your emotional

00:18:18.280 structure follows that, and so do your thoughts, and so all of that's, all of that's nested

00:18:24.460 inside what's essentially a moral structure, and so what are the things that implies is

00:18:29.300 that the way the world manifests itself to you is directly a consequence of your morality,

00:18:34.600 and if you know that, then that's a good thing to know that's terrifying, because one

00:18:40.140 of the things that you might also come to realize is that if you're overwhelmed with bitterness

00:18:44.340 and resentment, and, and your life is a catastrophe in some ways, and I know that, that terrible

00:18:50.100 accidental things can happen to people, I'm perfectly aware of that, but that there is

00:18:54.460 some possibility that all of that negativeness that surrounds you and enshrouds you is actually

00:19:00.820 a consequence of errors in your moral reasoning, it's highly probable that that's the case,

00:19:05.800 you know, barring random catastrophe, which, which, which, which, which has to be taken

00:19:11.860 into account, because I'd never say to anyone, well, you know, if you're suffering, it's your

00:19:16.440 fault, because people have bad luck, and they can suffer for all sorts of reasons, but there

00:19:22.680 is the possibility that there's some element of the misery that encompasses you when it does,

00:19:27.720 that's a consequence of an error in the way that you're progressing through life with

00:19:32.860 regards to your, to your, to the aims that you're pursuing, it's highly probable, and

00:19:38.200 that, that's another reason why rule six is relevant, to put your house in perfect order

00:19:42.180 before you criticize the world, and so rule 11, rule 11 is, don't bother children when

00:19:48.920 they're skateboarding, you know, and that's, yeah, well, that's an antidote, I would say,

00:19:54.720 to some degree, to this, this idea that, that if you love someone, you protect them, and,

00:20:00.700 because I don't believe that, I mean, you protect people who are vulnerable, you, and you protect

00:20:05.980 them in proportion to their vulnerability, but, but no more than that, ever, you want

00:20:10.680 to pull back your protection as fast as you possibly can, as, as, as children develop their

00:20:17.040 autonomy, one of the things the psychoanalysts knew, and, and this is the Freudians in particular,

00:20:21.620 was that the good mother necessarily fails, it's such a wise phrase, right, because, well,

00:20:28.440 and, and it's very problematic for, for mothers in particular, because, of course, when you

00:20:32.740 have a newborn, the newborn is completely dependent, and 100% correct, right, because when a baby

00:20:40.840 who's under six months cries, you don't blame the baby, you know, you don't say, well, why

00:20:45.560 don't you get your act together, pick, pick yourself up off the damn ground, and stand up

00:20:49.660 on your own two feet, you know, if a crying baby is always right, and so, and, and so, but

00:20:56.940 that's not the case for someone who's three, who's crying, for example, you know, because

00:21:01.860 that, that, that capacity for autonomy starts to develop, and so, you have to make that unbelievably

00:21:06.720 difficult shift from full commitment to something that's entirely dependent, to pull back constantly

00:21:14.060 as the person becomes more and more autonomous, and it's a very difficult moral task to manage

00:21:19.320 that, because it means that you have to expose yourself to the risk that's associated with

00:21:24.980 the pain and anxiety that your child will necessarily encounter as they strive to become more competent

00:21:30.680 in the world, and, you know, I think that a mother who's tightly bonded with an infant feels

00:21:36.080 more pain on behalf of their child when the child is exploring and hurting him or herself

00:21:42.120 during the exploration than the child him or herself feels, and so it, it takes real courage

00:21:47.960 to just stand back and say, you know, you go bump yourself up against the world, because

00:21:54.860 you have to get strong and, and, and, and competent, because that's what's going to protect you

00:22:00.980 across the longest span of time, and so, well, that's why you don't bother children when they're

00:22:06.880 skateboarding, because it's obviously dangerous to skateboard, and maybe it'd be nice if you could

00:22:12.080 be wrapped in, you know, bubble wrap, and, and encased in styrofoam while you're plummeting

00:22:16.620 down the hill, but, um, in the short term, that's perfectly reasonable, but as a medium

00:22:21.020 to long-term strategy, it's a really bad one, and I, I think we're paying quite a large price

00:22:25.700 societally, you see that reflected in the universities to a large degree for hyper-protecting our young

00:22:31.920 people as they develop, and there's complex reasons for that.

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00:25:29.680 And then rule 12 is to pet a cat when you encounter one on the street. And I also opened that chapter

00:25:39.540 with the discussion of dogs, because, you know, if you talk about cats, then all the dog people

00:25:43.960 instantly, they instantly hate you. And so the mere fact that I mentioned cats meant that I had to put

00:25:50.640 at least two pages of content in praising dogs. But it was okay, because we had a dog, and I actually

00:25:58.460 liked him quite a bit, and he was my daughter's close friend. His name was Seiko. He died about two

00:26:03.820 years ago. And so if you want to stop and pet a dog, then that's also fine. And I just thought I'd

00:26:10.780 mention that so that the dog lovers wouldn't, you know, be too negatively predisposed towards me.

00:26:17.040 And it's a bit of a meditation on the relationship between limitation and existence and love. Because

00:26:26.360 one of the things that I came to realize when I had children, and I would say also as my parents

00:26:31.160 have aged, is that, you know, the limitations that people have make their existence bounded by pain

00:26:41.480 in some sense. You know, you see this with young children, because of course they're fragile. And

00:26:45.600 you see this with people as they get older. And, you know, you also see your family members, and you

00:26:51.660 yourself, for that matter, have, you have your peculiarities and your idiosyncrasies. And, you know,

00:26:56.860 maybe some of them are weaknesses, but they're also, in a perverse sense, also things that define

00:27:03.720 you, you know, as the unique person that you are. And it's not so easy to disentangle the limitations

00:27:10.000 and the idiosyncrasies from those elements about the person that you actually love. Because, well,

00:27:15.980 part of what makes you unique is what you are, but part of it is also what you're not.

00:27:21.000 And a very important part of it is what you're not. And so, one of the things that I considered

00:27:26.900 when my kids were young was that, you know, that the fact that you love people, and that you mourn

00:27:33.760 for them, or, and that, and that you feel their pain even when they're alive, and, and that you're also

00:27:38.420 happy that they're around, is, it's your fundamental decision that life, despite its limitations, is

00:27:44.480 worthwhile. That, that, that, that's what I think love for someone else actually represents, especially

00:27:49.820 that familial love, you know, because it's, it's kind of arbitrary who's in your family, where you're

00:27:55.640 born, and you make these connections with the people, your siblings, and your parents, and your

00:27:59.640 children, and you see them in their limitation, and their idiosyncrasy, and, and if they depart,

00:28:05.840 then you mourn. And what that seems to indicate is that despite it all, whatever that means, despite it

00:28:13.000 all, it was a good thing that they were. And that, that's a good thing to know, because, you know,

00:28:18.760 it's easy to become nihilistic about life, and to become hopeless, especially when things aren't

00:28:22.880 going well, and you might say, well, what's the value? Why should I continue? But, and, and that's

00:28:29.120 your, that's the part of you that's thinking, and it, it has its purposes, but, you know, when, when you

00:28:34.240 reflect more profoundly on how it is that you react to the world, the fact that you are capable of

00:28:40.400 establishing these profound relationships with the people that you love, does seem to indicate that

00:28:45.040 in your soul of souls, let's say, you decide that their being was worth celebrating, despite

00:28:54.680 everything. And, because otherwise, well, why would you mourn? Or, or why would you feel someone

00:29:01.580 else's pain if you, if you didn't think that there was something of value there? And I do believe

00:29:07.540 that, that, that, that value is intrinsically bound up with the limitations that also make

00:29:13.060 life tragic and, and difficult, that you can't separate them. Maybe you can transcend them to

00:29:19.040 some degree, but you can't separate them. And so, it's useful to know, maybe, that when push comes

00:29:25.280 to shove, that the, the, the, the deepest part of you is in love with the fragility of life. I think

00:29:31.820 that's useful thing to know. And so, that's part of the meditation that's part and parcel of rule 12.

00:29:38.320 And that was hard won by knowledge, I would say, to some degree, because, um, you know, my, I wrote

00:29:44.280 that chapter in part about my daughter, who was very, very ill for a very long period of time. And so,

00:29:49.400 I had plenty of time to think about such things. And I mean, I, I know tragedy comes to everyone,

00:29:54.880 and that, that's not a unique story. I mean, you, you, you don't have to scratch below the surface

00:29:59.240 in most people's lives before you come to some deep pocket of tragedy and sorrow, because that's

00:30:05.220 part and parcel of existence, you know. And, and it, it belies the notion of privilege, I would say,

00:30:11.120 to, to, to, to a tremendous degree, because even people who are very successful across one dimension

00:30:16.980 or another dimension still have all of the full catastrophe of life's tragedy to contend with.

00:30:24.420 Which is not to say that some people don't have it harder at some times than, than others,

00:30:29.240 because they, they clearly do. But no one gets out of here alive, you know, and that's something,

00:30:35.060 that's something to always think about when you're feeling jealous or envious. You know,

00:30:38.580 we all bump up against the same fundamental limitations than, and they're, and they're quite

00:30:44.020 deep and, and, and, and tragic. So, rule one, stand up straight with your shoulders back. It's a funny

00:30:52.140 rule. It's been funny to watch the reaction to it, because that's the rule that has attracted

00:30:57.060 the most criticism from the people who are inclined to criticize what I'm talking about.

00:31:02.880 And I think it's quite interesting, because the criticisms are based on a complete misreading

00:31:07.140 of the chapter, and, which I, I can't help but think is motivated. And also, it's interesting

00:31:13.620 that it's only the first chapter that absorbs the criticism, but my sense is that that's because

00:31:18.460 the people who are leveling those sorts of criticisms at me actually only read the first chapter.

00:31:24.200 And they don't do a very good job of that. And so, because what, what I was trying to do in that

00:31:34.920 chapter, especially with the infamous comparison to lobsters, let's say, and you would not believe

00:31:40.540 how many crocheted lobsters I now possess. I think, I think I have like the world's largest

00:31:48.240 collection of multi-sized crocheted lobsters. I didn't, and then people come to the shows too,

00:31:54.260 with like lobster apparel, ties and shirts. And it's like, I didn't know there was so much

00:32:00.620 crustacean themed clothing, but it seems to be a thing. So, I was trying to make a point in,

00:32:07.660 in that chapter, a couple of points. The first chapter was that, the first point was, it was

00:32:12.700 actually, weirdly enough, it was actually a point that was aimed at people on the left side of the

00:32:20.680 political spectrum, and not in a negative way. So, imagine that, here's a way of thinking about the

00:32:26.800 political landscape, okay? And I think this is extremely useful, and I think it's correct, is if

00:32:31.880 you're a conservative type, say a centrist to conservative, you're on the right wing end of the

00:32:36.220 spectrum. You're basically someone who's inclined by temperament, so biologically, essentially, to,

00:32:44.580 to be what, what, most comfortable with hierarchies. You're comfortable with hierarchies, and, and, and

00:32:51.000 you, because you're conscientious, you're, you're inclined to adapt yourself to hierarchies, and then

00:32:56.680 to strive upward in them, and to sort of accept the idea of a hierarchical structure as a positive

00:33:03.280 given. So, that's why people on the right, for example, are more patriotic, you know? And, and are

00:33:08.340 opposed to things like flag burning, and so on. And, this is useful, as far as I'm concerned, and

00:33:13.820 necessary, because, so, imagine that human beings have problems, that's easy enough to imagine, and

00:33:20.860 then, imagine that we would like to solve some of those problems, and that sometimes we actually

00:33:25.900 manage to orient ourselves properly, so we are trying to solve them, and then imagine that we have to do

00:33:31.280 that collectively, which we do, and then imagine that if you get together collectively to solve a problem, that

00:33:37.340 the consequence of that is going to be the construction of a hierarchy. And it is, because if you're going to solve, you know what

00:33:43.280 it's like, you get together and you're going to solve a problem, the first thing you want to do is figure out, well, who in the

00:33:47.740 group knows how to solve the problem? And the answer is, well, some people know how more than others, and then the

00:33:53.940 logical thing to do, if you have the least bit of sense, is to put the people who know how to solve the problem at the top of the

00:33:59.840 hierarchy, and one of the, right? I mean, obviously, so, and that, you might only do that because those people are older, and they've been around more, so, you know, the younger people are at the bottom, and that is the case, like, one of the best predictors of wealth distribution in western societies is age.

00:34:18.840 Older people have more money. It's like, well, that's not very fair. It's like, well, yeah, yeah, but they're also old, you know, so, it's not like they didn't trade something for it, like, they really traded something for it, so, the bulk of the wealth soon is going to be in the hands of women who are over 75, because, of course, their husbands all die.

00:34:40.880 And so, that, well, that's right, that's right, but, and so, they're old women, and they're rich, and, you know, and that's an inequality, but, you know, they're old, and so, they need some money to live, and most of them would trade it for being young again, so it's not obvious who has the advantage, but in any case, if you're sensible, you make a hierarchy, because you're trying to solve a problem, and then you put competent people at the forefront of the hierarchy,

00:35:08.760 and then, if you're also even more sensible, you allow people who develop competence in the hierarchy to rise, right, because, and one of the things that I've noticed about those who go out in the world and actually accomplish things in a positive way is that they're often extraordinarily committed to the idea of mentoring young people, you know, and it's one of the positive pleasures that actually goes along with having a position of authority, and you never hear the critics of the hierarchy ever discuss anything like that.

00:35:37.540 It's all exploitation and power, and it's like, it's such bloody rubbish, you know, I've worked with graduate students for decades, and I've never thought about it as a power relationship, it's like, I don't want graduate student minions, it's like, some people do, some people do, you know, but they're usually not very confident in their intellectual ability, and they feel threatened by the students, but if you have any sense what you want to do, just for your, even if you're

00:36:07.540 you want to surround yourself with, you want to surround yourself with young, brilliant, accomplished people who have the possibility of doing great things with their lives, and open doors for them, because that's intrinsically motivating to a huge degree, right, it's one of the, it's not that much different from the care that you'd have for, like, for children, you know, I mean, you want them to do well if you have any sense, and it's not like that's going to take away from you unless you're, you know,

00:36:37.540 things that are seriously wrong with you, and you can't assume that that characterizes the whole damn hierarchy, because it doesn't, and so what, one of the things I was trying to point out in that chapter is that hierarchies are necessary, and not only that, they're really ancient, right, which is why I associated them with crustaceans, because that's old, and the same neurochemical rules, in some sense, apply to these creatures from whom we diverged, you know, 350 million years ago, that apply to us, and so hierarchies are ancient,

00:37:07.540 they're so ancient that our brains actually react to them as if they're a permanent part of the world, more permanent than trees, more permanent than the material objects that we take for granted, in fact, your emotional stability is dependent to large degree on how the serotonergic system in your brain computes your position in a hierarchy, because it assumes that if you're near the top of a hierarchy, that things, that you're pretty competent, and that your life is pretty stable, and so you can afford not to be completely overwhelmed with things,

00:37:37.540 anxiety, because, like, things are not that likely to fall apart for you instantly, but if you're at the bottom of a hierarchy, and barely struggling to hold on, then your negative emotions are massively elevated, which is partly why people don't like to be pushed down hierarchies, right, because it dysregulates their emotional structure, and so, which is a very useful thing to know, which is why people don't like to lose face, right, because it dysregulates their emotional structure,

00:38:03.000 but if you're on the left, you know, you're a critic of hierarchies, and the reason for that is, well, when you arrange a hierarchy, it does dispossess people at the bottom, because people tend to stack up at the bottom of hierarchies, and sometimes the hierarchies are corrupt, and they tend towards a tyrannical structure, and so, you need people on the left who are concerned about the dispossessed, and keeping an eye on the hierarchy, so they don't get corrupt, and stagnant, and only focused on power.

00:38:31.680 And so, what I was trying to say in chapter one, in part, was that, look, if you're on the left, and you're compassionate, and you're concerned about people who are dispossessed by hierarchies, don't take the idiotic, simplistic route of assuming that the reason that hierarchies exist is because of the West and capitalism, which is the Marxist perspective, because that's just wrong, and it's wrong in a way that isn't going to be helpful to the people that you're trying to serve,

00:38:58.900 because the problem of dispossession is way deeper than the problem of capitalism in the West.

00:39:04.160 And we know that, 100%, you see hierarchical structures everywhere in the animal kingdom, but even more importantly, there aren't human societies that lack that hierarchical structure,

00:39:15.800 even if they're not capitalist or Western, it's like, you think, what, you think the Soviet Union wasn't a hierarchical system?

00:39:22.320 It's just, it was hierarchical to the nth degree, it just wasn't based on competence, or honesty, or transparency, or utility, or...

00:39:30.800 But it wasn't, it wasn't as if there wasn't the one-tenth of one percent who had everything, and the 99.9% who had mostly death and misery.

00:39:43.700 And so, the fact that it, the fact that it was no longer a capitalist system had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the hierarchical structure,

00:39:51.840 except to make it steeper and less functional.

00:39:54.420 And so, that was the point I was trying to make in that chapter, and it had nothing to do with, you know, how you manifest your own personal power,

00:40:03.080 so you can bloody well climb up the tyrannical dominance hierarchy.

00:40:06.460 Quite the contrary.

00:40:07.440 The other point I was trying to make, and making this throughout Twelve Rules for Life,

00:40:11.120 is that power is actually a very unstable means of attaining hierarchical position.

00:40:17.180 You even see that in animals like chimpanzees, who are our closest biological relatives.

00:40:21.180 The tyrannical chimps, the male, because they do have fundamentally a male dominant structure among chimpanzees,

00:40:28.880 the tyrannical male can climb to the top, you know, sheerly as a consequence of, what would you call it, oppression, physical oppression.

00:40:37.640 But the probability that he's going to meet a bloody end at the hand of two subordinates who cooperate to take him down is extraordinarily high.

00:40:45.880 And so, Franz de Waal, who's a great primatologist, has established quite clearly that power is an unstable basis for the establishment of chimpanzee hierarchies.

00:40:56.100 And that's an incredibly important discovery.

00:40:58.280 I mean, what de Waal has pointed out, he's written books about the origins of morality in higher order primates.

00:41:05.100 Like, it's proto-morality, you know, it's got the beginnings of morality,

00:41:08.820 like chimpanzees have the beginnings of language and the beginnings of self-awareness.

00:41:13.240 And that chimpanzee males, who are able to engage in reciprocal relationships across time,

00:41:18.600 so let's say something like friendships,

00:41:20.580 and that extend a reasonable hand to the females and to the infants,

00:41:24.100 are much more likely to stay in their positions of relative hierarchical authority

00:41:29.100 for longer periods of time and not to meet a spectacularly bloody end.

00:41:35.180 And so, those sorts of things are, like, those sorts of things are really very much worth attending to.

00:41:39.840 It's like, well, what's a stable, if you want to, if you want to position yourself properly in a hierarchy,

00:41:45.420 in a hierarchy of competence rather than one of power,

00:41:48.560 because I think most of our functional Western hierarchies are hierarchies of competence,

00:41:53.100 then it isn't power and tyranny and oppression that's going to position you most appropriately.

00:42:00.800 You can do that, especially if you're psychopathic, you know,

00:42:03.940 and that's the psychopathic mode of being,

00:42:06.060 but it isn't, it is by no means an optimal strategy.

00:42:10.180 A much more appropriate strategy is one of courage and truthfulness

00:42:15.000 and the capacity to engage in reciprocal interactions,

00:42:18.700 to build trust in yourself, to be trustworthy,

00:42:21.880 and then to build trusting relationships with other people.

00:42:25.240 And if you don't understand that,

00:42:26.700 then you don't know very much about how sociological structures work,

00:42:30.660 because every hierarchy I've ever seen that was functional,

00:42:34.000 you know, that performed the important task that it was designed to perform,

00:42:38.220 that was trying to solve important problems,

00:42:40.120 that everybody agreed were problems,

00:42:42.220 were predicated on competence and trust.

00:42:44.520 And not 100%, because, of course, nothing is perfect.

00:42:47.960 Our selection methods aren't perfect.

00:42:49.840 And once you build an organization,

00:42:51.460 you can get people inside it who are exploiting it for their own purposes,

00:42:55.600 that have, say, nothing to do with the function of the hierarchy.

00:42:58.600 But those are hierarchical structures that have become,

00:43:02.760 that's not in the essence of the hierarchical structure.

00:43:05.840 That's a consequence of corruption.

00:43:07.520 And so, you know, you're supposed to keep your damn eyes open

00:43:10.640 if you're a sovereign individual and a reasonable citizen

00:43:13.540 and someone who's, what, who's concerned with solving important problems

00:43:19.420 and with truth and responsibility.

00:43:21.940 You're supposed to keep your eyes open

00:43:23.260 so that the hierarchy that you're in doesn't become corrupt.

00:43:25.800 And that's really your function as a sovereign citizen.

00:43:28.900 And our whole culture of individual responsibility,

00:43:32.660 because I think that's what our culture is,

00:43:34.460 essentially is predicated on the idea

00:43:36.240 that it's your responsibility as a sovereign individual

00:43:40.020 to keep your damn eyes open

00:43:41.420 so that the hierarchy doesn't descend into tyranny.

00:43:44.560 That's why you vote.

00:43:46.220 That's why the sovereignty inheres within the individual.

00:43:50.680 And so that's what chapter one was about.

00:43:52.660 And it has nothing to do with justifying the power tyranny

00:43:56.660 and, you know, encouraging young men to manifest domination

00:44:01.340 so that they can take over the patriarchy.

00:44:03.580 It's goddamn stupid that it's just painful.

00:44:06.620 You know, I mean, really, it's so annoying.

00:44:10.620 And I don't, I don't, I don't just mean

00:44:13.440 the criticisms that are leveled at the chapter

00:44:15.780 because, you know, I can take that or leave it.

00:44:17.980 But the idea, there's this idea that has become something

00:44:21.760 that we're, like, forced to agree with

00:44:24.320 at the cost of our own reputation

00:44:27.080 that the proper way to view our culture

00:44:29.400 is as a patriarchal tyranny

00:44:30.960 and that that's to be insisted upon

00:44:32.880 or there's something bigoted about you

00:44:34.940 and that the right way of construing the relationship

00:44:37.380 between men and women across the centuries

00:44:39.260 is that of one of fundamental oppression.

00:44:41.820 All of that is so, so resentful

00:44:44.340 and so narrow-minded and so ignorant

00:44:46.620 that you have to suspect malevolence.

00:44:49.580 You know, the way, the way, I think maybe it's partly

00:44:57.880 because people actually don't want to face

00:44:59.580 how, how, how rife with horror life truly is.

00:45:03.900 You know, because it would be lovely, perhaps,

00:45:06.280 if, if your suffering could be laid at someone's feet.

00:45:09.680 You know, that the reason that your life

00:45:11.440 isn't everything it could be

00:45:12.660 is because the social structure is pathological

00:45:15.020 or because people of the opposite sex

00:45:17.240 aren't acting properly.

00:45:18.480 I mean, because maybe there would be

00:45:20.360 a simple solution to the problem.

00:45:22.180 You could just fix the social structure

00:45:23.980 and get those other people to act properly

00:45:26.000 and then you'd be fine.

00:45:27.200 It's like, you know, it's not,

00:45:29.100 that's not the case

00:45:30.340 because your vulnerability is much more,

00:45:33.280 is much deeper and more profound than that.

00:45:35.220 There's no simple solution to it in that manner.

00:45:37.480 And, you know, when I look at the historical,

00:45:40.000 when I look at human interactions

00:45:42.280 across the historical span of time,

00:45:44.180 and what I see is,

00:45:46.080 well, here's a fact.

00:45:47.500 I mean, before 1895,

00:45:49.100 the average person in the Western world

00:45:50.520 lived on less than a dollar a day.

00:45:52.540 That's half of what the UN now considers abject poverty.

00:45:55.700 And that was in the richest part of the world.

00:45:57.860 And so that was the lot of our ancestors

00:46:00.900 150 years ago.

00:46:02.160 And that's not very long ago, right?

00:46:03.400 That's two old men ago.

00:46:05.140 It's not very long ago.

00:46:07.180 And so what I see is that

00:46:08.500 men and women cooperated

00:46:10.480 to the degree they could

00:46:11.760 over the course of millennia

00:46:13.640 to keep the damn wolf away from the door.

00:46:16.340 And most of the time,

00:46:17.420 they were only somewhat successful at that, right?

00:46:20.180 Because the wolves were plentiful

00:46:22.440 and the doors weren't very solid.

00:46:25.000 And to rewrite that and say,

00:46:26.560 well, the fundamental way to look at history

00:46:28.540 is as the oppression of women by men

00:46:30.480 is just, it's,

00:46:31.560 there's nothing but hatefulness

00:46:33.040 that's at the bottom of that.

00:46:34.380 And the truth of the matter is,

00:46:36.280 is that,

00:46:36.820 the truth of the matter is,

00:46:43.580 is that most human beings

00:46:44.880 throughout the entire course of history

00:46:46.580 had lives where they were oppressed

00:46:50.280 by the forces of nature and culture

00:46:52.340 and their own ignorance and malevolence

00:46:54.720 to a degree that we can hardly imagine

00:46:57.160 and that we struggled mightily

00:46:58.760 to come out of that.

00:46:59.760 A few people at a time to begin with

00:47:01.740 were given some freedom and some autonomy,

00:47:03.580 you know,

00:47:04.200 a small percentage of the population.

00:47:06.440 And as we got wealthier

00:47:07.580 and more able to distribute those opportunities,

00:47:11.360 we distributed them pretty damn rapidly.

00:47:13.380 And we've done a pretty good job

00:47:14.800 of putting people in a situation now

00:47:17.540 only 150 years later

00:47:19.680 where we all have opportunities

00:47:21.540 that would be completely unimaginable

00:47:24.100 to people, you know,

00:47:26.180 that short century ago.

00:47:27.940 And that's a little,

00:47:29.380 there's a little bit of gratitude.

00:47:30.680 We might have a little bit of gratitude

00:47:31.900 for that instead of constantly attempting

00:47:34.400 to undermine and displace everything

00:47:36.240 that we and the people

00:47:37.860 who came before us

00:47:38.680 have been able to manage.

00:47:39.800 So that's rule one.

00:47:46.640 The moral of rule one, so to speak,

00:47:49.320 was, well, how do you attain position and authority

00:47:52.820 within a functional hierarchy?

00:47:54.800 And the answer to that is

00:47:55.520 you be a good person.

00:47:57.520 That's actually the best strategy,

00:47:59.920 technically speaking.

00:48:01.540 And so I believe that that,

00:48:03.120 I truly believe that's the case.

00:48:04.880 And that's partly,

00:48:06.000 even just thinking about it biologically,

00:48:08.640 you know,

00:48:09.120 thinking about it purely

00:48:10.260 from an evolutionary perspective.

00:48:12.020 One of the things that you have to do

00:48:13.400 in order to be successful

00:48:14.520 is to take your position properly

00:48:16.340 in a hierarchy

00:48:17.620 because that's one of the things

00:48:18.660 that determines your reproductive success.

00:48:20.580 It's a primary determinant.

00:48:22.140 Male or female,

00:48:23.280 it's a primary determinant.

00:48:24.900 And so the answer to the question is,

00:48:26.620 imagine a set of hierarchies, right?

00:48:29.460 Which could be the set of all the hierarchies

00:48:31.720 that you could possibly be born into.

00:48:33.660 Well, you want to develop a mode of being,

00:48:36.840 part that's structured inside your biology,

00:48:39.420 but that's also partly taught to you,

00:48:41.500 that would ensure most probably

00:48:43.680 that no matter where you ended up

00:48:45.420 in all those multiple hierarchies,

00:48:47.340 that your probability of moving upward

00:48:49.220 would be optimized.

00:48:51.260 And so you can think about that

00:48:52.640 as the set of all possible hierarchies

00:48:54.640 or the set of all possible games.

00:48:56.700 That's another way of thinking about it.

00:48:58.240 And then the question is,

00:48:59.520 well, what do you need to do

00:49:00.920 to be a winner at a game?

00:49:02.700 But it's not the right question exactly,

00:49:04.980 because the right question is,

00:49:06.340 what do you need to be,

00:49:07.660 what do you need to do

00:49:08.380 to be the winner at the set of all games?

00:49:10.760 And the answer to that

00:49:11.620 is to be a good player, right?

00:49:14.240 Is to play,

00:49:15.180 not, you say to your kids,

00:49:16.600 doesn't matter whether you win or lose.

00:49:19.540 It matters how you play the game.

00:49:22.220 And you think,

00:49:22.760 well, what are you saying to them?

00:49:23.800 Because you actually don't know,

00:49:25.060 and if they ask you,

00:49:26.220 well, what do you mean by that?

00:49:27.580 Aren't I trying to win?

00:49:28.960 You say,

00:49:29.620 well, of course you're trying to win,

00:49:30.900 but go away.

00:49:34.020 You know?

00:49:35.280 But it still matters more how you play

00:49:37.360 than whether you win or lose.

00:49:39.000 And what you're really telling them is,

00:49:40.740 you're trying to play across a set of games,

00:49:43.700 across the set of all possible games,

00:49:45.480 and you want to be the sort of winner

00:49:46.720 that's constantly invited to play,

00:49:49.000 because that's how you win.

00:49:51.080 And so that's the sort of winner you want to be.

00:49:53.000 And in order to be invited to play,

00:49:55.060 then you have to be an honorable player,

00:49:56.780 and that is the best way to move forward in life.

00:49:59.400 And I think the reason

00:50:00.360 that there's such a concentration

00:50:02.700 on the ethical path

00:50:05.480 in fundamental religious narratives

00:50:07.580 is because there isn't a better strategy.

00:50:10.560 Now, it's hard to imagine that in some sense,

00:50:12.480 because it's a medium to long-term strategy,

00:50:15.760 it often means sacrifice in the present, right?

00:50:18.400 Because to act ethically often means

00:50:20.600 that you have to forego immediate gratification.

00:50:23.440 You have to put the future ahead of the present.

00:50:25.600 And, you know, that requires discipline and vision.

00:50:28.060 And so it's a difficult path,

00:50:29.360 and it's easy to be skeptical about it.

00:50:31.120 But, you know, you can ask yourself,

00:50:32.800 well, why else would the idea

00:50:34.800 of an ethical pathway even emerge

00:50:36.520 if such a thing wasn't probable and true?

00:50:39.500 And, you know, and you can also ask yourself

00:50:41.480 another question, which is,

00:50:42.580 well, you know,

00:50:43.260 you don't teach your children to lie and to cheat.

00:50:46.820 Not unless you're,

00:50:47.860 well, not unless there's something

00:50:49.160 seriously wrong with you.

00:50:50.640 And even the people

00:50:51.860 that there is something seriously wrong with

00:50:55.580 know perfectly well

00:50:57.140 that if they're teaching their children

00:50:58.720 to lie and to cheat,

00:50:59.780 that that's wrong.

00:51:00.860 They at least know that.

00:51:02.640 And why would you have the intuition

00:51:04.160 that was wrong

00:51:04.900 if you didn't also have the intuition

00:51:06.440 that acting properly

00:51:07.540 was actually the best way

00:51:09.320 to carry you through life?

00:51:12.240 We know that.

00:51:12.980 And why would you call yourself out

00:51:14.480 on your own moral shortcomings

00:51:16.020 if that wasn't part of

00:51:17.160 your instinctual nature?

00:51:19.520 And it's there for a reason.

00:51:20.900 Like this idea,

00:51:21.780 this idea of moral relativism,

00:51:23.800 I think that goes along

00:51:25.220 with the whole idea

00:51:25.920 that human beings are blank slates.

00:51:27.580 We are not blank slates

00:51:29.160 and moral relativism is incorrect.

00:51:31.460 It's wrong.

00:51:32.300 It doesn't even hold true among animals.

00:51:34.980 Because there's plenty of evidence

00:51:36.100 that animals,

00:51:36.880 once they organize themselves

00:51:37.980 into social communities,

00:51:39.500 follow what appear to be moral behavior.

00:51:42.940 They follow behavioral patterns

00:51:44.600 that if you described,

00:51:46.560 you would see a proto-morality in them.

00:51:49.480 So it isn't even true

00:51:50.700 when you get out of the human world

00:51:52.040 that morals are relative.

00:51:53.960 It's certainly not true

00:51:54.920 within the human world.

00:51:55.940 And we need to dispense with that

00:51:57.240 because that idea of moral relativism

00:51:59.280 is making people nihilistic.

00:52:04.400 It's not helpful.

00:52:06.000 You know, especially if you ally that

00:52:07.620 with the idea of rule 10,

00:52:09.080 which I mentioned to you already,

00:52:10.400 that, you know,

00:52:11.120 that your aim determines your perceptions

00:52:14.280 and that your aim is associated

00:52:16.400 with your moral structure.

00:52:18.100 And so, you know,

00:52:18.740 if you flatten out the moral structure

00:52:20.220 and you say,

00:52:20.780 well, everything is the same

00:52:21.820 as everything else,

00:52:22.640 there isn't one aim or value

00:52:24.460 that supersedes another,

00:52:25.520 then you're left

00:52:26.420 with no moral structure at all

00:52:27.860 and then you can't even

00:52:28.980 see the world properly

00:52:30.500 and you think,

00:52:31.340 then that's not just not helpful,

00:52:33.360 that's deadly.

00:52:34.480 That kills people.

00:52:36.000 You know,

00:52:36.260 you see people who are suicidal

00:52:37.700 because they become hopeless

00:52:39.000 because all the meaning

00:52:39.880 has been taken out of their life

00:52:41.100 except the suffering

00:52:42.140 because you can't get rid of that.

00:52:44.120 So all the meaning

00:52:44.820 has been taken out of their life

00:52:46.060 because their moral hierarchy

00:52:47.580 has been demolished.

00:52:48.640 It's not like they're now free

00:52:50.360 because they have no strictures,

00:52:52.560 but they drown in chaos.

00:52:54.320 And that's partly why I wrote the title

00:52:56.700 as, you know,

00:52:57.280 12 rules is an antidote to chaos.

00:52:59.440 And that's that chaos

00:53:00.440 that pulls people down

00:53:02.320 and drowns them.

00:53:03.960 And these aren't optional.

00:53:06.060 You know,

00:53:06.260 they say man does not live by bread alone

00:53:08.400 and that's the literal truth

00:53:09.960 is that it's fine

00:53:11.880 to have enough material provision

00:53:13.760 and thank God for that,

00:53:14.880 but that isn't enough

00:53:16.160 to orient you in the world.

00:53:18.020 And so the problem of morality

00:53:19.140 has to be taken

00:53:19.940 with dead seriousness.

00:53:21.120 There isn't a more fundamental issue.

00:53:23.540 And to hand wave and say,

00:53:26.080 well,

00:53:26.480 there's multiple ways

00:53:27.580 of being in the world,

00:53:28.840 which is certainly the case,

00:53:29.980 just like there are multiple games,

00:53:31.620 it's not the same thing to say

00:53:32.900 that all moral systems

00:53:34.340 are equally arbitrary

00:53:35.720 and equally replaceable

00:53:38.240 and fundamentally imaginary.

00:53:40.320 It's like,

00:53:40.680 no,

00:53:40.920 none of that's correct

00:53:41.940 and we need to dispense with that.

00:53:43.900 It's not helpful.

00:53:45.740 So,

00:53:48.660 rule two

00:53:49.440 is treat yourself

00:53:51.060 like you're someone

00:53:51.800 responsible for helping

00:53:53.040 and this is an antidote,

00:53:54.980 I would say,

00:53:55.500 to casual self-esteem.

00:53:59.720 So much of psychology,

00:54:03.720 pop psychology,

00:54:04.840 sometimes social psychology

00:54:06.040 has been devoted to the idea

00:54:07.600 that really what you need

00:54:08.580 is to have high self-esteem

00:54:09.940 and I think that's all

00:54:11.040 complete bloody rubbish

00:54:12.800 and dangerous to boot.

00:54:14.860 Especially for young people,

00:54:16.260 you know,

00:54:16.740 because imagine you're talking

00:54:18.140 to someone who's 18 or 19

00:54:19.440 and they're confused

00:54:20.340 as can be,

00:54:21.440 maybe you're talking

00:54:22.240 to someone 30,

00:54:23.160 it's the same thing

00:54:23.980 or maybe even 40,

00:54:25.340 you know,

00:54:25.620 and they haven't got

00:54:26.420 their life oriented

00:54:27.300 and they don't know

00:54:27.880 what they're doing

00:54:28.360 and they're kind of drowning

00:54:29.240 and anxious

00:54:29.780 and suffering because of it.

00:54:31.660 That's very, very common

00:54:32.800 and maybe they're medicating

00:54:33.840 with alcohol or drugs

00:54:35.040 or, you know,

00:54:35.880 and they're bitter

00:54:36.460 and they're lying

00:54:37.280 and, you know,

00:54:37.740 their lives are seriously

00:54:38.600 out of kilter

00:54:39.260 and you say to them,

00:54:40.260 you're okay the way you are.

00:54:42.180 The way you are is perfect.

00:54:43.620 It's like,

00:54:44.280 that's supposed to be

00:54:45.140 some manifestation

00:54:46.480 of compassion.

00:54:47.940 It's the last thing

00:54:48.740 that someone in trouble

00:54:49.580 wants to hear.

00:54:50.720 What they want to hear is,

00:54:51.900 man,

00:54:52.500 you are seriously screwed up.

00:54:55.200 But you wouldn't have to be.

00:54:57.300 That'd be the next thing.

00:54:58.420 It's like,

00:54:59.060 you know,

00:54:59.480 you're in this state

00:55:00.260 of abject misery

00:55:01.240 and it isn't okay

00:55:02.760 and maybe you bear

00:55:04.560 some responsibility

00:55:05.440 and maybe some terrible things

00:55:06.860 have happened to you

00:55:07.480 and that has to be sorted out

00:55:08.780 very carefully,

00:55:10.040 you know,

00:55:10.360 but you're nowhere near

00:55:11.520 what you could be.

00:55:12.600 That's what you tell young people.

00:55:13.980 You don't say you're okay

00:55:14.840 the way you are

00:55:15.500 and give them a little award.

00:55:17.040 You say,

00:55:17.460 look, you're 18.

00:55:18.380 What the hell do you know?

00:55:19.280 You don't know anything.

00:55:20.460 And it's no wonder

00:55:21.440 you're stupidly suffering

00:55:22.720 because you're ignorant

00:55:23.540 and wrong

00:55:24.260 and naive

00:55:25.440 and immature.

00:55:27.200 But

00:55:27.640 but think about

00:55:35.060 who you could be.

00:55:36.040 You know,

00:55:36.720 you could be a world beater

00:55:38.000 if you got your act together

00:55:39.220 and that's going to take

00:55:40.000 like some decades

00:55:40.900 of striving and discipline

00:55:42.100 but it'll be worth it.

00:55:43.200 You'll be able to pull yourself out

00:55:44.660 of that position

00:55:46.160 that you're in

00:55:46.760 and move towards something

00:55:48.320 that's truly worth attaining

00:55:49.940 and then they have a trajectory

00:55:51.660 and as soon as they have a trajectory

00:55:53.320 then they have some meaning

00:55:54.440 and as soon as they have some meaning

00:55:55.680 then they're not in that

00:55:56.620 nihilistic catastrophe

00:55:58.380 right away

00:55:59.680 even though,

00:56:00.660 you know,

00:56:00.900 they still may have

00:56:01.720 10,000 things to learn

00:56:03.680 like we all do.

00:56:04.680 And so,

00:56:06.200 well,

00:56:06.560 chapter 2

00:56:07.200 is well,

00:56:07.660 treat yourself

00:56:08.200 like you're someone

00:56:08.840 responsible for helping.

00:56:10.200 It's like to take

00:56:10.800 some responsibility

00:56:11.680 for yourself

00:56:13.360 as someone

00:56:14.540 who's worthy

00:56:15.580 of positive attention

00:56:17.140 despite your

00:56:18.260 despite your

00:56:19.860 unarguable flaws

00:56:21.620 and your malevolence.

00:56:23.200 You know,

00:56:23.540 you're a deeply flawed creature.

00:56:25.360 Everyone is.

00:56:26.200 That's the doctrine

00:56:27.080 of original sin

00:56:27.920 which is a necessary doctrine

00:56:29.480 because it keeps us aware

00:56:31.240 of the fact

00:56:31.880 that we're not

00:56:32.500 who we could be

00:56:33.400 but you can take

00:56:34.960 responsibility for yourself

00:56:36.380 like you would

00:56:37.260 for someone that you love

00:56:38.340 and say,

00:56:38.840 well,

00:56:39.000 despite the fact

00:56:39.800 that I have all these flaws

00:56:41.020 I'm still,

00:56:42.360 I still have fundamental

00:56:44.160 irreducible value.

00:56:46.260 Right?

00:56:46.400 Another presupposition

00:56:47.660 of our culture.

00:56:50.020 It's a Judeo-Christian value

00:56:51.660 that each person

00:56:52.620 has an inalienable value

00:56:54.440 that's associated

00:56:55.240 in some sense

00:56:56.120 with divinity

00:56:56.820 and the structure

00:56:57.660 of reality itself

00:56:59.160 which is something

00:57:00.060 I truly believe

00:57:01.420 to be true.

00:57:02.080 I think it's

00:57:02.560 an appropriate way

00:57:03.880 of viewing

00:57:04.300 it's the only

00:57:05.640 appropriate way

00:57:06.440 of viewing each other

00:57:07.220 if you try to establish

00:57:08.480 a relationship

00:57:09.140 with someone

00:57:09.820 yourself

00:57:10.400 or anyone else

00:57:11.180 that doesn't have

00:57:12.260 that as a predicate

00:57:13.240 so your inalienable value

00:57:15.080 and your ability

00:57:16.080 to make ethical decisions

00:57:17.300 and your capacity

00:57:18.320 for responsible choice

00:57:19.500 if I don't treat you

00:57:20.840 like that

00:57:21.360 and vice versa

00:57:22.100 we will not have

00:57:23.500 a functional relationship

00:57:24.640 and to me

00:57:25.480 that's good

00:57:26.060 now I don't know

00:57:32.300 if that was a scream

00:57:33.260 of delight

00:57:33.940 or terror

00:57:34.680 so you

00:57:38.560 treat yourself

00:57:40.160 like you're someone

00:57:40.800 responsible

00:57:41.400 for helping

00:57:42.040 not because you want

00:57:43.380 to let yourself

00:57:43.920 off the hook

00:57:44.620 in any ways

00:57:45.180 not because you want

00:57:46.260 to be flooded

00:57:47.200 by feelings

00:57:47.940 of positive self-esteem

00:57:49.240 but because you have

00:57:50.040 a moral responsibility

00:57:51.160 to regard yourself

00:57:52.680 as something

00:57:53.260 that has intrinsic value

00:57:54.640 and that that value

00:57:56.920 needs to be encouraged

00:57:58.920 to manifest itself

00:58:00.280 in the world

00:58:00.840 and I believe

00:58:02.000 one of the things

00:58:02.860 that I came to believe

00:58:03.700 from studying totalitarianism

00:58:05.260 in the 20th century

00:58:06.240 was that the reason

00:58:07.540 that totalitarian states

00:58:08.820 flourished

00:58:09.360 was because individual people

00:58:11.080 abdicated their moral responsibility

00:58:13.180 that was the fundamental cause

00:58:15.340 there's other causes

00:58:16.280 of course

00:58:16.700 but when push came

00:58:17.840 to shove

00:58:18.320 that was

00:58:18.800 that was

00:58:19.440 that was

00:58:20.000 that was the line

00:58:21.200 that once that line

00:58:23.160 is crossed

00:58:23.700 then a society

00:58:24.400 can deteriorate

00:58:25.300 and it can deteriorate

00:58:26.320 on the right

00:58:26.760 and it can deteriorate

00:58:27.720 on the left

00:58:28.120 it's up to you

00:58:28.760 to bloody well

00:58:29.340 be awake

00:58:29.940 you know

00:58:30.560 in the little businesses

00:58:31.540 that you occupy

00:58:32.420 and in your family

00:58:33.320 and in broader society

00:58:34.700 and to keep things

00:58:35.940 straight

00:58:36.420 and functioning

00:58:37.260 and so

00:58:38.080 and that's part

00:58:38.960 of the reason

00:58:39.520 why it's perfectly reasonable

00:58:40.960 to view yourself

00:58:41.800 as something that has intrinsic value

00:58:43.560 because your alert consciousness

00:58:45.560 is in fact

00:58:46.540 the mechanism

00:58:47.260 that keeps society

00:58:49.080 from degenerating

00:58:50.080 into tyranny

00:58:50.760 and keeps the wolf

00:58:51.960 from the door

00:58:52.800 and so

00:58:53.760 it's useful

00:58:54.360 to know that

00:58:55.240 and so

00:58:57.160 you have to treat yourself

00:58:58.460 like you have that value

00:58:59.700 even though

00:59:00.160 you might be ashamed

00:59:01.060 of yourself

00:59:01.640 for everything

00:59:02.340 that you're not

00:59:03.300 and that's

00:59:04.020 reasonable shame

00:59:05.480 as well

00:59:05.920 but it shouldn't

00:59:07.000 mount to the point

00:59:08.140 where you have

00:59:08.820 the kind of contempt

00:59:09.980 for yourself

00:59:10.600 or other people

00:59:11.320 that you're not

00:59:12.040 doing everything

00:59:12.700 you can

00:59:13.280 to allow

00:59:14.260 the possibilities

00:59:15.300 of the world

00:59:15.940 to open up to you

00:59:16.840 and then

00:59:17.120 the same thing

00:59:17.980 is true

00:59:19.060 of the choice

00:59:20.140 of people

00:59:20.640 that you associate

00:59:21.420 with

00:59:21.800 with your friends

00:59:22.600 and so

00:59:23.040 rule three

00:59:24.500 is make friends

00:59:25.320 with the people

00:59:25.820 who want the best

00:59:26.560 for you

00:59:26.840 and it's a harsh

00:59:27.460 chapter too

00:59:28.140 because it involves

00:59:29.420 the occasional necessity

00:59:31.060 of leaving people behind

00:59:32.500 and you know

00:59:33.320 there's this rule

00:59:34.020 if you're a lifeguard

00:59:34.980 and someone's drowning

00:59:35.920 and you swim up

00:59:36.600 to them like this

00:59:37.480 and the reason

00:59:38.560 you do that

00:59:39.120 is because

00:59:39.560 if they cling to you

00:59:40.920 and stop you

00:59:43.100 from being able

00:59:43.640 to move

00:59:44.040 and you both drown

00:59:44.920 that's not helpful

00:59:45.840 then there's two dead people

00:59:47.760 and that's

00:59:48.540 well I just went out there

00:59:49.780 to help

00:59:50.240 it's like

00:59:50.640 well good

00:59:51.080 now there's two dead people

00:59:52.280 it's like

00:59:52.660 it's not useful

00:59:53.800 and you tell the person

00:59:55.200 look you're going to have

00:59:55.920 to calm down

00:59:56.660 and I can help you

00:59:57.800 but we're not going

00:59:58.540 to both drown here

00:59:59.540 and the same thing

01:00:00.980 applies

01:00:01.420 I would say

01:00:02.300 to the relationships

01:00:03.220 that you have

01:00:04.000 and it's a better way

01:00:05.240 to think about it

01:00:06.060 than to say

01:00:07.340 you should make friends

01:00:08.500 with people

01:00:08.980 who want the best

01:00:09.720 for you

01:00:10.040 is that you should

01:00:10.760 make friends

01:00:11.840 you should have

01:00:12.660 relationships

01:00:13.220 with people

01:00:14.720 and the best

01:00:17.180 in them

01:00:17.680 should want the best

01:00:19.880 for the best

01:00:20.540 in you

01:00:21.020 that's a better way

01:00:22.080 of thinking about it

01:00:22.940 and I sorted that out

01:00:24.320 a little bit

01:00:24.760 in my clinical practice

01:00:25.800 because there was

01:00:26.480 a psychologist

01:00:27.100 named Carl Rogers

01:00:28.600 who thought

01:00:29.100 that you should have

01:00:29.840 unconditional positive

01:00:31.080 regard for people

01:00:32.160 and that never

01:00:32.880 sat well with me

01:00:34.440 he really didn't act

01:00:35.560 he didn't act

01:00:36.320 like that

01:00:36.760 really either

01:00:37.600 when you analyze

01:00:38.660 the way he acted

01:00:39.580 it's not a bad

01:00:40.620 formulation

01:00:41.040 but it's a bit

01:00:41.900 imprecise

01:00:42.680 because really

01:00:43.600 what you want

01:00:44.220 from a relationship

01:00:45.060 is you're hoping

01:00:46.240 that if you have

01:00:47.280 a close relationship

01:00:48.220 with someone

01:00:48.820 then the best

01:00:49.740 in them

01:00:50.120 calls to the best

01:00:51.060 in you

01:00:51.400 and those two

01:00:51.940 things build

01:00:52.620 each other

01:00:53.140 right

01:00:53.420 that's what you

01:00:54.180 hope if you have

01:00:54.720 a marriage

01:00:55.220 or a friendship

01:00:55.880 if it's a real

01:00:56.620 friendship

01:00:57.060 that's what you're

01:00:57.780 after

01:00:58.100 you also want

01:00:59.160 the people around

01:00:59.800 you to call

01:01:00.420 you on your

01:01:00.980 foolishness

01:01:01.680 right

01:01:01.920 and sometimes

01:01:02.640 that can be

01:01:03.120 really intense

01:01:03.900 you know

01:01:04.180 if you have

01:01:04.560 a family member

01:01:05.260 that's degenerating

01:01:06.280 in some appalling

01:01:07.380 manner

01:01:07.760 sometimes you have

01:01:08.880 to put up

01:01:09.280 a real wall

01:01:10.180 and maybe a bunch

01:01:11.500 of you have

01:01:11.880 to put up

01:01:12.200 a wall

01:01:12.500 and say

01:01:12.760 you cross this

01:01:14.200 and there will

01:01:14.680 be absolute

01:01:15.440 hell to pay

01:01:16.360 and they're not

01:01:17.160 they don't believe

01:01:18.580 that what they're

01:01:19.160 doing is serious

01:01:19.980 enough

01:01:20.400 or that anyone

01:01:21.020 actually cares

01:01:21.960 until that harsh

01:01:23.260 wall has been

01:01:24.840 established

01:01:25.320 and then maybe

01:01:26.360 they'll think

01:01:26.800 oh

01:01:27.080 oh

01:01:27.540 what I'm doing

01:01:28.560 is wrong

01:01:29.120 and people actually

01:01:30.000 do care

01:01:30.600 because they care

01:01:31.140 enough to say

01:01:31.720 keep making mistakes

01:01:33.560 and there'll be

01:01:34.040 things that happen

01:01:34.740 that you will

01:01:35.260 seriously not appreciate

01:01:36.440 and there's a terrible

01:01:37.740 harshness about that

01:01:38.800 but it's way more

01:01:40.160 merciful than a

01:01:41.060 lackadaisical attitude

01:01:42.060 that says

01:01:42.560 yeah well

01:01:43.420 you know

01:01:43.880 drink and lie

01:01:45.140 yourself to death

01:01:46.080 and I'll just go

01:01:46.780 along with it

01:01:47.300 because I don't

01:01:47.820 want the conflict

01:01:48.600 I just don't see

01:01:49.680 anything useful

01:01:50.340 in that at all

01:01:51.120 and so it's very

01:01:52.380 helpful to make

01:01:53.420 friends

01:01:53.780 I think it's a

01:01:54.540 responsibility again

01:01:55.760 it's not something

01:01:56.280 to make your life

01:01:56.940 easier

01:01:57.420 to make friends

01:01:58.520 with people

01:01:58.900 who want the best

01:01:59.620 for you

01:02:00.020 it's something to make

01:02:00.860 your life more

01:02:01.380 difficult

01:02:01.880 in the proper way

01:02:03.420 Kierkegaard said

01:02:04.940 years ago

01:02:05.580 in the late 1800s

01:02:07.780 when he was thinking

01:02:08.420 about the benefits

01:02:09.160 of the industrial revolution

01:02:10.480 you know

01:02:11.200 that there would come

01:02:11.800 a time when everything

01:02:12.660 had been made so easy

01:02:14.160 from a material perspective

01:02:15.500 that what people

01:02:16.600 would start to cry out

01:02:17.660 for was voluntary

01:02:18.780 difficulty

01:02:19.860 and I think that

01:02:21.320 yeah because we actually

01:02:22.560 are built for a load

01:02:23.720 you know

01:02:24.140 like we're load

01:02:25.880 bearing creatures

01:02:26.960 and unless we've got

01:02:27.900 something heavy

01:02:28.660 to carry

01:02:29.460 then we don't feel

01:02:30.340 that we're justified

01:02:31.820 in our existence

01:02:32.820 it's like you have

01:02:33.600 to pay a price

01:02:34.540 you have to pay a price

01:02:35.940 for the privilege

01:02:36.760 of your existence

01:02:37.700 it's something like that

01:02:38.760 and maybe that's part

01:02:39.760 of your instinct

01:02:40.460 for social reciprocity

01:02:41.920 there has to be

01:02:42.840 a heavy load

01:02:43.520 and it looks to me

01:02:44.280 like the heavier

01:02:45.440 the load

01:02:46.060 that you bear

01:02:46.800 voluntarily

01:02:47.500 the better it is

01:02:48.540 for you

01:02:48.920 and everyone else

01:02:49.820 and so

01:02:50.620 and there's something

01:02:51.340 that's deeply religious

01:02:52.420 about that idea too

01:02:53.580 that's associated

01:02:54.320 for example

01:02:54.980 with the idea of

01:02:55.940 bearing the cross

01:02:57.240 of your own mortality

01:02:58.480 which is a deeply

01:02:59.500 Christian idea

01:03:00.700 and a very intelligent one

01:03:01.980 that's something

01:03:02.380 that you do voluntarily

01:03:03.580 and that that's partly

01:03:04.960 how you actually cope

01:03:06.040 with the fact

01:03:06.680 of your own mortality

01:03:07.660 is to bear up

01:03:08.920 under the load

01:03:09.700 right

01:03:10.000 and to move ahead

01:03:11.000 uphill

01:03:11.480 despite that

01:03:12.840 with your eyes open

01:03:13.860 and then maybe

01:03:14.660 that's the pathway

01:03:15.780 to having some

01:03:16.440 actual self-regard

01:03:17.900 you know

01:03:18.500 you see yourself

01:03:19.240 as a vulnerable

01:03:20.460 and flawed creature

01:03:21.460 that still has

01:03:22.340 enough courage

01:03:22.960 to stand up

01:03:23.660 to the absolute

01:03:24.360 catastrophe of the world

01:03:25.740 and try to make

01:03:26.880 things better

01:03:27.680 that's a responsibility

01:03:29.380 and it's the one

01:03:30.340 that gives meaning

01:03:31.120 to your life

01:03:31.920 the rule four

01:03:39.900 is compare yourself

01:03:41.660 to who you were

01:03:42.360 yesterday

01:03:42.800 and not to

01:03:43.540 who someone else

01:03:45.760 is today

01:03:46.280 and I was writing

01:03:47.460 that because

01:03:47.980 one of the things

01:03:49.480 I learned from

01:03:50.120 reading Carl Jung

01:03:50.980 which is a very

01:03:51.600 useful thing

01:03:52.260 to learn

01:03:53.120 is that

01:03:53.540 you can't have

01:03:54.380 an ideal

01:03:54.840 without having

01:03:55.500 a judge

01:03:56.160 and you know

01:03:57.460 when you upbraid

01:03:58.120 yourself morally

01:03:59.060 you know

01:03:59.380 when you're guilty

01:04:00.060 and you're feeling

01:04:00.620 bad about something

01:04:01.400 you've done

01:04:01.880 the reason you're

01:04:02.500 doing that

01:04:02.880 is you're comparing

01:04:03.600 yourself in some way

01:04:04.980 to some implicit ideal

01:04:06.340 like you don't know

01:04:07.420 what the ideal is

01:04:08.240 exactly

01:04:08.660 but you kind of

01:04:09.320 feel out its contours

01:04:10.600 because it's whatever

01:04:11.880 you're lesser than

01:04:13.340 and you wouldn't be

01:04:14.420 feeling guilty

01:04:15.140 and ashamed

01:04:15.720 of what you've done

01:04:16.520 or haven't done

01:04:17.240 if that implicit ideal

01:04:19.100 wasn't there

01:04:19.680 so one of the prices

01:04:21.060 you pay for having

01:04:21.960 an ideal

01:04:22.500 is that you also

01:04:24.120 have a judge

01:04:24.780 and that can be

01:04:25.580 very bad

01:04:26.300 because the higher

01:04:27.540 the ideal

01:04:28.120 and the lower

01:04:29.000 you are

01:04:29.480 in relationship

01:04:30.420 to it

01:04:30.980 the more

01:04:31.800 judgmental

01:04:33.700 the judge

01:04:34.400 becomes

01:04:35.040 one of the things

01:04:36.060 Jung pointed out

01:04:36.840 which is an

01:04:37.420 absolutely

01:04:38.060 staggering

01:04:39.080 brilliantly

01:04:40.400 brilliant observation

01:04:41.820 is he was trying

01:04:42.880 to understand

01:04:43.480 the structure

01:04:44.020 of the New Testament

01:04:44.840 and he regarded

01:04:46.040 Christ for example

01:04:47.360 as an archetypal

01:04:49.260 representation

01:04:49.880 of the perfect person

01:04:51.500 this has nothing

01:04:52.340 to do with metaphysics

01:04:53.380 by the way

01:04:53.820 it's a psychological

01:04:54.600 observation

01:04:55.300 it's an image

01:04:56.300 of perfection

01:04:57.000 and that the image

01:04:58.300 that was in the gospels

01:04:59.540 was one of

01:05:00.120 primarily of compassion

01:05:01.880 but that was incomplete

01:05:03.500 because if it's an ideal

01:05:05.420 it's also a judge

01:05:06.720 and the reason

01:05:07.920 that the book of Revelation

01:05:09.000 was tacked on

01:05:09.860 to the end

01:05:10.240 of the New Testament

01:05:10.880 was to flesh out

01:05:11.700 the story

01:05:12.160 because at the end

01:05:13.300 of time

01:05:13.800 during the apocalypse

01:05:14.860 right

01:05:15.360 you might say

01:05:16.220 during the times

01:05:17.300 in your life

01:05:17.820 where everything

01:05:18.320 falls apart

01:05:19.060 the ideal

01:05:20.140 appears as

01:05:20.880 the judge

01:05:21.700 and you

01:05:23.900 in relationship

01:05:24.620 to the judge

01:05:25.280 are going to be judged

01:05:26.060 very harshly

01:05:26.960 precisely in proportion

01:05:28.380 to the elevation

01:05:29.160 of the ideal

01:05:29.940 and so that's

01:05:30.880 absolutely

01:05:31.680 he was

01:05:32.320 an absolutely

01:05:33.540 brilliant

01:05:34.720 analyst of narrative

01:05:35.820 and that's one

01:05:36.640 of the most

01:05:36.980 intelligent things

01:05:37.860 I've ever come across

01:05:38.760 that idea

01:05:39.760 that an ideal

01:05:40.960 is at the same time

01:05:42.540 a judge

01:05:43.060 and then something

01:05:43.940 also to be somewhat

01:05:44.800 terrified of

01:05:45.560 because of course

01:05:46.220 you're always

01:05:46.620 insufficient

01:05:47.220 in relationship

01:05:48.260 to your ideal

01:05:49.040 especially if it's

01:05:50.060 the highest ideal

01:05:51.100 imaginable

01:05:51.840 well

01:05:52.720 you might become

01:05:54.140 crushed under the

01:05:55.020 weight of that

01:05:55.760 and you see other

01:05:56.500 people in the world

01:05:57.360 who are manifesting

01:05:58.380 themselves in a manner

01:05:59.720 that's more ideal

01:06:00.580 than you are

01:06:01.280 and the distance

01:06:02.860 between you

01:06:03.500 and that ideal

01:06:04.140 is so large

01:06:05.940 that it can make you

01:06:06.780 bitter and resentful

01:06:07.780 and hopeless

01:06:08.300 and all of that

01:06:09.120 but you need the ideal

01:06:11.080 because you need

01:06:11.740 something to strive

01:06:12.580 towards

01:06:12.960 so the question

01:06:13.740 might be

01:06:14.180 how can you have

01:06:15.080 the ideal

01:06:15.660 without crushing

01:06:17.380 yourself

01:06:17.940 under the weight

01:06:18.640 of your inadequacy

01:06:19.700 in relationship

01:06:20.420 to it

01:06:20.920 making you jealous

01:06:22.040 and envious

01:06:22.620 and bitter

01:06:23.100 and all of that

01:06:23.760 and it seems to me

01:06:25.060 and this is a good

01:06:26.340 technique from a

01:06:27.220 behavioral perspective

01:06:28.220 is

01:06:28.480 well the right person

01:06:29.560 to compare yourself

01:06:30.440 to isn't

01:06:31.440 who someone else

01:06:32.440 is today

01:06:33.080 whoever that might be

01:06:34.540 whoever's better

01:06:35.300 at whatever it is

01:06:36.140 that you're trying

01:06:36.740 to do

01:06:37.080 or whoever it is

01:06:37.800 that has more

01:06:38.340 than you

01:06:38.660 but who you are

01:06:39.900 now or who you

01:06:40.940 were yesterday

01:06:41.640 because it's the

01:06:42.440 right comparison

01:06:43.380 you know

01:06:44.180 first of all

01:06:44.880 what you're trying

01:06:45.460 to do

01:06:45.740 is to be better

01:06:46.420 than you are

01:06:47.360 and that's fair enough

01:06:49.140 and then you could be

01:06:50.480 so that's something else

01:06:51.980 it's actually a positive thing

01:06:53.400 because you could at least

01:06:54.360 be slightly better

01:06:55.420 next week

01:06:55.940 than you were this week

01:06:56.860 even if it was only

01:06:57.520 like one tenth of one percent

01:06:59.700 which is a really good

01:07:01.000 initial percentage

01:07:03.400 to aim at

01:07:04.300 and that compounds

01:07:05.140 quite quickly

01:07:05.960 across time

01:07:06.820 you know

01:07:07.100 you don't have to make

01:07:08.520 huge improvements

01:07:09.380 if they're continual

01:07:10.460 for your pathway

01:07:11.480 to be up

01:07:12.080 and to accelerate

01:07:12.800 quite rapidly

01:07:13.700 and so

01:07:14.580 and you're also

01:07:15.320 the proper comparison

01:07:16.360 for yourself

01:07:17.020 because you're the only person

01:07:18.320 that has your particular set

01:07:19.900 of peculiarities

01:07:21.060 and limitations

01:07:21.760 and tragedies

01:07:22.720 and abilities

01:07:23.280 and all of that

01:07:24.100 and so

01:07:24.860 you can move

01:07:25.680 towards the ideal

01:07:26.760 and you can compare yourself

01:07:28.760 to yourself

01:07:29.400 and you can work

01:07:30.260 incrementally

01:07:31.000 for improvement

01:07:31.700 and then you can have

01:07:32.980 the kind of humility

01:07:34.280 that allows you

01:07:35.160 to admit

01:07:35.600 that you need

01:07:36.240 to be improved

01:07:36.980 without also suffering

01:07:38.240 you know

01:07:38.960 from too much resentment

01:07:40.560 bitterness

01:07:41.060 and too much moral weight

01:07:42.480 because you're not yet

01:07:43.760 everything you could be

01:07:44.820 and so that's

01:07:45.540 basically rule four

01:07:47.040 and rule five

01:07:48.200 is

01:07:48.480 don't let your children

01:07:50.560 do anything

01:07:51.080 that makes you dislike them

01:07:52.380 and I like that rule a lot

01:07:53.900 it outlines a philosophy

01:07:55.140 of discipline

01:07:55.880 which I think is very important

01:07:57.300 because it's very hard

01:07:58.240 to figure out

01:07:58.700 how to discipline children

01:07:59.800 it's predicated on two ideas

01:08:01.860 don't make too many rules

01:08:03.540 and enforce the rules

01:08:05.320 that you do make

01:08:06.240 which are very good

01:08:07.460 legal and philosophical principles

01:08:09.820 and

01:08:10.560 and

01:08:11.320 and it's

01:08:12.120 and it

01:08:12.500 it's also based on

01:08:14.340 a different idea

01:08:15.120 of parenting

01:08:15.780 than the one

01:08:16.760 that you would normally

01:08:17.700 hear in our culture

01:08:18.720 which is a very immature culture

01:08:20.120 in many ways

01:08:20.840 is that

01:08:21.180 your job as a parent

01:08:22.540 isn't to

01:08:23.020 make your children happy

01:08:24.560 or to help them be happy

01:08:25.640 or to be well adjusted

01:08:26.700 or

01:08:26.960 or

01:08:27.560 or

01:08:27.940 or to foster their creativity

01:08:30.040 or any of that

01:08:30.880 which you probably can't do

01:08:32.100 anyways

01:08:34.020 hmm

01:08:38.660 thought maybe the protesters

01:08:40.340 had something to do with that

01:08:41.580 it's one of their little tricks

01:08:43.460 right

01:08:44.340 they haven't got anything to say

01:08:46.320 they can always make a lot of noise

01:08:47.620 with a fire alarm

01:08:48.520 so

01:08:49.320 um

01:08:50.020 your job as a parent

01:08:52.760 is to fundamentally

01:08:53.600 make your children

01:08:54.420 attractive to other people

01:08:55.680 or to help them maintain

01:08:57.240 that intrinsic attractiveness

01:08:58.900 that draws people

01:08:59.780 to young children

01:09:00.420 anyways

01:09:00.740 because

01:09:01.180 what you want them to do

01:09:02.800 is to be welcomed

01:09:03.820 by other children

01:09:05.240 as playmates

01:09:06.520 because a lot of

01:09:07.820 what happens to children

01:09:08.880 when they're being socialized

01:09:10.540 is that they're socialized

01:09:11.640 through

01:09:11.980 play with other children

01:09:13.400 and so

01:09:13.980 if they

01:09:14.220 if they're not popular

01:09:15.380 as playmates

01:09:16.040 then they don't get

01:09:16.740 they don't get invited

01:09:17.780 into the group

01:09:18.820 and then they get left

01:09:19.940 farther and farther behind

01:09:21.180 and the clinical literature

01:09:22.480 on that is very very clear

01:09:23.680 so your job is to help them

01:09:25.480 learn between the ages

01:09:26.520 of two and four

01:09:27.260 how to engage

01:09:28.220 in reciprocal play

01:09:29.380 and men can play

01:09:30.480 a very important role

01:09:31.400 in that

01:09:31.660 especially with regards

01:09:32.560 to rough and tumble play

01:09:33.640 but in any case

01:09:34.800 that's one of the things

01:09:36.420 that you want to do

01:09:37.080 and another thing

01:09:37.660 you want to do

01:09:38.120 is to render them

01:09:39.420 as attractive

01:09:40.100 to as adults

01:09:40.880 as possible

01:09:41.560 because adults

01:09:42.640 have knowledge

01:09:43.960 and authority

01:09:45.000 and if you want

01:09:46.260 your children

01:09:46.780 to learn

01:09:48.240 how to function

01:09:49.000 in the world

01:09:49.600 then it's not so bad

01:09:50.820 to teach them

01:09:51.440 a little bit of respect

01:09:52.300 for adults

01:09:52.980 well partly because

01:09:53.860 they're going to become

01:09:54.820 an adult

01:09:55.400 which is of crucial

01:09:57.000 importance

01:09:57.620 right

01:09:57.900 it's like

01:09:58.220 why wouldn't you

01:09:59.660 want to instill

01:10:00.520 within your children

01:10:01.520 the ultimate in respect

01:10:02.980 for what they're going

01:10:04.000 to be

01:10:04.580 why wouldn't you do that

01:10:06.120 unless you didn't like them

01:10:07.500 you know

01:10:07.740 unless you didn't want

01:10:08.600 the best for them

01:10:09.480 and if you

01:10:10.240 if they come equipped

01:10:11.720 with a certain amount

01:10:12.620 of respect

01:10:13.480 for valid authority

01:10:14.640 then adults

01:10:15.580 will appreciate them

01:10:16.500 because they'll behave

01:10:17.240 properly around them

01:10:18.160 and then they'll open

01:10:18.760 doors for them

01:10:19.620 and so

01:10:19.960 what

01:10:20.660 and so then

01:10:21.400 what can you use

01:10:22.160 as a guide for that

01:10:23.140 well

01:10:23.400 if you don't like

01:10:25.020 your child

01:10:25.600 well maybe there's

01:10:26.480 something wrong with you

01:10:27.260 because you're ornery

01:10:28.200 and you're hungover

01:10:29.040 and you had a bad day

01:10:29.980 and your mother tortured you

01:10:31.420 and you're full of faults

01:10:33.020 and so you know

01:10:33.760 you're not a very good parent

01:10:34.840 and so

01:10:35.540 but that's why

01:10:36.200 there's two of you

01:10:37.080 hopefully

01:10:37.980 because your stupidity

01:10:40.240 and your husband's stupidity

01:10:41.540 hopefully will cancel

01:10:42.560 each other out

01:10:43.280 to

01:10:43.480 to

01:10:44.020 hopefully

01:10:45.280 right

01:10:46.020 so that

01:10:46.480 the idea is

01:10:47.520 that the amalgam

01:10:48.640 of you two

01:10:49.500 imperfect creatures

01:10:50.760 makes one

01:10:51.580 reasonable being

01:10:52.900 who's

01:10:53.620 a decent

01:10:54.540 proxy

01:10:55.220 for society

01:10:56.180 at large

01:10:56.860 that's the hope

01:10:58.040 and so that

01:10:58.860 if you annoy

01:10:59.580 that proxy

01:11:00.560 which is the parental unit

01:11:02.080 as a child

01:11:03.000 then you probably

01:11:03.680 would annoy

01:11:04.240 other people as well

01:11:05.460 and so

01:11:05.840 that's when it's okay

01:11:06.800 for the parents

01:11:07.420 to step in

01:11:08.040 and say

01:11:08.340 you should stop

01:11:09.400 being so damn annoying

01:11:10.520 because

01:11:11.360 other people

01:11:12.360 won't like you

01:11:13.320 and then your life

01:11:14.120 will be hell

01:11:15.000 and that's a really good

01:11:16.320 that's a really good reason

01:11:18.320 you say

01:11:18.640 why discipline

01:11:19.440 children

01:11:20.040 well

01:11:20.460 well that's why

01:11:27.900 because

01:11:28.300 you discipline them

01:11:29.860 so that

01:11:30.300 the world opens itself

01:11:31.760 up to them

01:11:32.400 and so that they have

01:11:33.660 good lives

01:11:34.460 and so that

01:11:35.560 you don't only love them

01:11:36.580 but you also like them

01:11:37.720 and so that you can see

01:11:38.860 when you take them

01:11:39.900 to see other children

01:11:40.820 that they play right away

01:11:41.900 and that they play happily

01:11:42.980 and productively

01:11:43.680 and when you take them

01:11:44.840 out in public

01:11:45.540 to see adults

01:11:46.740 that the adults

01:11:47.420 aren't pretending

01:11:48.260 to like them

01:11:49.220 but actually

01:11:50.120 you know

01:11:50.300 with that fake smile

01:11:51.420 that you see

01:11:52.000 on the faces of people

01:11:52.980 who really think

01:11:54.080 oh my god

01:11:54.700 not these brats again

01:11:56.000 you want them

01:11:57.860 to be

01:11:58.260 to be very happy

01:11:59.860 that these cute

01:12:00.840 bouncy

01:12:01.380 enthusiastic

01:12:02.020 children

01:12:02.820 who have some sense

01:12:03.840 of the difference

01:12:04.580 who have some sense

01:12:05.940 of their own limits

01:12:06.780 have come to

01:12:07.720 be around them

01:12:08.680 and then they can be

01:12:10.080 positively regarded

01:12:12.240 by their grandparents

01:12:13.280 and by

01:12:13.860 and by your family

01:12:15.100 friends

01:12:15.480 and all of that

01:12:16.200 and then

01:12:17.060 and that's much better

01:12:18.220 because then

01:12:18.700 they're also surrounded

01:12:19.440 by adults

01:12:19.940 who are responding

01:12:20.960 to them truthfully

01:12:21.940 and that's the sort

01:12:22.980 of world

01:12:23.280 that you want to open

01:12:23.980 up for your children

01:12:24.840 and well

01:12:26.720 I'm not going to get

01:12:27.820 through all 12 rules

01:12:28.960 but I'll go to rule 6

01:12:31.900 and maybe I'll stop

01:12:32.840 with that one

01:12:33.540 is that where

01:12:35.660 I want to stop

01:12:36.360 yeah I think

01:12:37.920 it's a good one

01:12:38.520 to stop with

01:12:39.140 that's to put your

01:12:40.460 house in perfect order

01:12:41.620 before you criticize

01:12:42.520 the world

01:12:43.120 and I like this

01:12:44.360 so one of the things

01:12:45.800 that like I've been

01:12:47.900 watching my audience

01:12:49.980 is I watch individuals

01:12:51.380 all the time

01:12:52.020 because I'm always

01:12:52.480 talking to individuals

01:12:53.340 in an audience

01:12:54.020 it's a good thing

01:12:54.900 to know if you're

01:12:55.440 a public speaker

01:12:56.140 by the way

01:12:56.580 is you only are afraid

01:12:58.180 to talk to a group

01:12:59.100 if you talk to the group

01:13:00.240 well you should never

01:13:01.660 talk to the group

01:13:02.480 you should just

01:13:03.140 talk to people

01:13:03.840 because you know

01:13:04.340 how to do that

01:13:04.980 probably

01:13:05.520 at least to some degree

01:13:06.940 and so you can pick

01:13:07.940 people out in the audience

01:13:09.020 one by one

01:13:09.680 and you can talk to them

01:13:10.580 and then you can see

01:13:11.300 if they're following

01:13:12.040 and if that person

01:13:12.940 is following

01:13:13.500 then probably

01:13:14.260 almost everyone else is

01:13:15.540 and you know

01:13:16.200 if they happen

01:13:17.020 to be asleep

01:13:17.660 well maybe they had

01:13:18.440 a bad day

01:13:19.040 and you can find

01:13:19.960 someone who's awake

01:13:20.780 and talk to them

01:13:21.700 and well you know

01:13:23.980 in a crowd

01:13:24.680 some people are going

01:13:25.520 to have had a bad day

01:13:26.700 and so anyways

01:13:28.860 the other thing I do

01:13:30.360 is listen to the

01:13:31.720 the whole theater

01:13:33.460 and I'm always

01:13:34.860 very curious

01:13:35.560 about listening

01:13:36.340 for silence

01:13:37.180 because silence

01:13:38.340 is an indication

01:13:39.220 that everyone

01:13:39.920 is focused

01:13:40.620 on the same thing

01:13:41.860 and that focus

01:13:44.280 it has a neurological

01:13:45.180 component

01:13:46.120 and the neurological

01:13:47.580 component

01:13:48.320 is the activation

01:13:49.300 of whatever circuitry

01:13:50.500 is allowing

01:13:51.020 for that focus

01:13:51.920 and it inhibits

01:13:53.100 everything else

01:13:53.940 if it's intense enough

01:13:55.180 so it inhibits

01:13:55.880 movement

01:13:56.580 it inhibits coughing

01:13:57.660 and it inhibits

01:13:58.960 you know

01:13:59.460 watch checking

01:14:00.280 and phone looking

01:14:01.700 and all of that

01:14:03.020 and so if the concentration

01:14:04.400 is intense enough

01:14:05.520 what you get

01:14:05.940 is silence

01:14:06.580 and so if you listen

01:14:08.080 to a whole theater

01:14:08.940 when you're talking

01:14:09.660 you can tell

01:14:10.500 when you strike a chord

01:14:11.840 because the place

01:14:12.800 goes completely silent

01:14:14.040 and so

01:14:15.040 one of the most

01:14:16.360 reliable motifs

01:14:18.280 that I've noticed

01:14:19.800 for rendering

01:14:20.980 a crowd

01:14:22.040 dead silent

01:14:23.300 it doesn't matter

01:14:24.000 where

01:14:24.360 and this is all

01:14:25.060 around the world

01:14:25.840 is to have a discussion

01:14:27.560 about the relationship

01:14:28.500 between meaning

01:14:29.420 and responsibility

01:14:30.540 and I think

01:14:31.880 the reason for that

01:14:32.680 is that we haven't

01:14:33.500 had that discussion

01:14:34.440 in our society

01:14:35.480 for like 50 years

01:14:37.260 and I don't know

01:14:38.140 if we've ever had it

01:14:39.260 with sufficient explicitness

01:14:41.240 you know

01:14:42.200 because the relationship

01:14:43.500 between meaning

01:14:44.260 and responsibility

01:14:45.180 isn't self-evident

01:14:46.680 you know

01:14:47.520 most of the people

01:14:48.240 who talk about responsibility

01:14:49.400 are conservative types

01:14:50.820 more orderly types

01:14:51.960 and they sort of do it

01:14:52.800 in a finger-shaking way

01:14:54.080 you know

01:14:54.580 you should get your act together

01:14:55.640 and you should act like this

01:14:56.920 and you should follow the rules

01:14:58.440 and you know

01:14:59.660 there's a kind of

01:15:00.340 rebellious spirit

01:15:01.480 that rejects that

01:15:02.780 sort of top-down

01:15:04.080 enforced morality

01:15:05.440 and there's something

01:15:06.320 to be said

01:15:06.900 for that rebellious spirit

01:15:08.300 but

01:15:08.960 and that isn't

01:15:10.080 what I'm interested in

01:15:11.140 I'm more interested in

01:15:12.180 the fact that

01:15:13.260 if you watch the people

01:15:15.080 that you admire

01:15:16.100 let's say

01:15:16.920 because admiration

01:15:17.480 is like a spontaneous

01:15:18.860 manifestation

01:15:20.140 of your psyche

01:15:21.120 it's part of the impulse

01:15:22.260 to imitate

01:15:22.820 because you automatically

01:15:24.520 admire people

01:15:25.420 and if you admire them

01:15:26.480 then you want to emulate them

01:15:27.820 and so

01:15:28.220 you have an instinct

01:15:29.280 for growth

01:15:29.900 and it manifests itself

01:15:31.360 in the proclivity

01:15:32.260 to admire

01:15:32.960 and that

01:15:33.720 and that

01:15:34.500 motivates

01:15:35.400 imitation

01:15:36.240 so then you think

01:15:37.380 well

01:15:37.640 who is it

01:15:38.780 that's

01:15:39.220 that you spontaneously

01:15:40.600 admire

01:15:41.420 and the answer to that

01:15:42.640 is

01:15:42.880 well it's generally

01:15:43.840 people who at least

01:15:44.800 take responsibility

01:15:45.800 for themselves

01:15:46.720 right

01:15:47.180 I mean one thing

01:15:48.140 you want from a person

01:15:49.320 a friend

01:15:49.820 a family member

01:15:50.980 a partner

01:15:52.300 a child

01:15:53.060 is the ability

01:15:54.160 to at least

01:15:54.880 not be

01:15:56.080 unnecessarily

01:15:57.580 dependent

01:15:58.180 on someone else

01:15:59.300 like if you're sick

01:16:00.220 or if you're hurt

01:16:01.080 that's a whole different matter

01:16:02.360 but you want to be

01:16:03.440 you want to see someone

01:16:04.800 who can stand up

01:16:06.100 on their own two feet

01:16:06.980 at least in relationship

01:16:08.220 to themselves

01:16:08.980 minimum

01:16:09.780 and you think

01:16:11.000 that person's doing all right

01:16:12.200 and then

01:16:12.500 maybe what you want

01:16:13.620 a little bit past that

01:16:14.920 is that

01:16:15.260 you want that person

01:16:16.440 to have taken enough

01:16:17.600 responsibility

01:16:18.180 so that other people

01:16:19.180 can rely on them too

01:16:20.260 you know

01:16:20.980 so that not only

01:16:21.840 are they a credit

01:16:22.740 to themselves

01:16:23.400 let's say

01:16:23.940 but they're also someone

01:16:25.100 who a family member

01:16:26.600 can come to

01:16:27.500 or a friend

01:16:28.000 in a time of crisis

01:16:29.000 and that will be there

01:16:30.240 in a functional

01:16:30.960 and productive way

01:16:31.800 so they're there

01:16:32.660 for themselves

01:16:33.220 but they're there

01:16:33.780 for their family

01:16:34.460 and their friends

01:16:35.060 and then

01:16:35.380 maybe beyond that

01:16:36.560 you want someone

01:16:37.140 who's also there

01:16:37.860 for the community

01:16:38.720 who's managed it

01:16:40.320 for themselves

01:16:40.920 and managed it

01:16:41.700 for their family

01:16:42.340 and then also managed

01:16:43.780 it for the community

01:16:44.600 and is doing all those

01:16:45.800 things at the same time

01:16:46.960 in a kind of

01:16:47.540 in a mode of ethical being

01:16:50.400 that's harmonious

01:16:51.480 like music is harmonious

01:16:53.220 that's the essential

01:16:54.380 that's an essential element

01:16:56.000 let's say

01:16:56.560 of what constitutes

01:16:57.480 valid morality

01:16:58.660 valid universal morality

01:17:00.200 and that's partly

01:17:02.920 when you see that pattern

01:17:04.000 manifested by someone

01:17:05.780 then you automatically admire

01:17:07.400 and it's part of the heroic

01:17:08.540 path through life

01:17:09.580 it's part of that ability

01:17:10.540 to bear up under

01:17:11.620 the tragedy of existence

01:17:13.120 and to move forward

01:17:14.180 and we're automatically

01:17:15.760 and religiously attracted

01:17:17.780 to that

01:17:18.280 in the most fundamental way

01:17:19.760 and it's necessary

01:17:20.960 and correct

01:17:21.680 and rule six

01:17:22.780 is get your house

01:17:23.700 in perfect order

01:17:24.440 before you criticize

01:17:25.280 the world

01:17:25.840 it's like

01:17:26.240 well there's lots of reason

01:17:27.480 to criticize the world

01:17:28.660 real reason

01:17:29.760 we've gone through

01:17:30.540 some of it

01:17:31.140 you know

01:17:31.480 nature's very harsh

01:17:33.100 and we all suffer

01:17:35.140 under the strictures

01:17:36.060 of mortality and illness

01:17:37.340 and culture can be tyrannical

01:17:39.200 and we're forced to deal

01:17:40.400 with our own ignorance

01:17:41.360 and malevolence

01:17:42.160 and that of others

01:17:42.920 there's lots of reasons

01:17:44.340 to be resentful

01:17:45.920 about the structure

01:17:46.780 of existence itself

01:17:48.060 and they're not trivial reasons

01:17:50.400 you know

01:17:50.820 but

01:17:51.460 I read this

01:17:53.980 this very interesting

01:17:55.220 exchange

01:17:56.040 in a book

01:17:56.720 called

01:17:58.000 The Cocktail Party

01:17:59.300 by T.S. Eliot

01:18:00.340 the American English poet

01:18:02.680 and in this

01:18:03.840 in this play

01:18:04.980 because it's a screenplay

01:18:05.920 there's a female character

01:18:07.720 and she's not having

01:18:08.680 a good time of it

01:18:09.460 she's suffering

01:18:10.220 madly

01:18:11.540 and it's really

01:18:12.060 undermining her

01:18:12.980 and she talks

01:18:14.540 to this psychiatrist

01:18:15.380 just at the party

01:18:16.600 she's looking at for

01:18:17.800 you know

01:18:18.520 free medical advice

01:18:19.780 let's say

01:18:20.220 and she says to him

01:18:21.520 she tells him

01:18:22.180 that she's having

01:18:22.700 a terrible time of it

01:18:23.760 and he listens

01:18:25.340 and she says

01:18:26.120 and I really

01:18:27.180 I'd like to talk to you

01:18:28.480 because I really hope

01:18:29.240 that there's something

01:18:29.860 wrong with me

01:18:30.900 and he says

01:18:31.920 well

01:18:32.180 what do you mean

01:18:33.380 why do you hope

01:18:34.260 that there's something

01:18:34.860 wrong with you

01:18:35.560 and she says

01:18:36.040 well look

01:18:36.760 this is how I look at it

01:18:37.880 like I'm having

01:18:38.700 a desperate time

01:18:39.620 of it here

01:18:40.060 and there's only

01:18:40.780 two possibilities

01:18:41.740 as far as I can tell

01:18:42.780 there's either

01:18:43.360 something wrong with me

01:18:44.620 or there's something

01:18:46.080 wrong with the world

01:18:47.180 and if there's something

01:18:48.380 wrong with the world

01:18:49.160 well then I'm done

01:18:50.140 because like

01:18:50.680 what am I going to do

01:18:51.340 about that

01:18:51.940 like if it's that

01:18:52.640 if that catastrophe

01:18:54.060 that's enveloped me

01:18:55.180 is a function

01:18:56.100 of the structure

01:18:57.000 of the world

01:18:57.580 then I'm lost

01:18:58.420 but if there's something

01:18:59.540 I'm doing wrong

01:19:00.640 well then that's so positive

01:19:02.220 because maybe I could

01:19:03.200 figure out what it is

01:19:04.600 and stop doing it

01:19:06.080 and you know

01:19:06.840 there's this idea

01:19:08.160 again it's deeply

01:19:09.240 embedded inside the west

01:19:10.520 that the thing

01:19:11.620 that you should offer up

01:19:12.880 as a sacrifice

01:19:13.900 to keep the world

01:19:14.860 functioning properly

01:19:15.820 is yourself

01:19:16.640 and not someone else

01:19:17.820 it's a very fundamental idea

01:19:19.900 and that idea

01:19:21.580 is really associated

01:19:22.740 with the notion

01:19:24.280 that you could let go

01:19:25.820 of what's insufficient

01:19:26.900 about you

01:19:27.540 and let it die

01:19:28.540 and that if you did

01:19:29.740 that enough

01:19:30.380 then

01:19:30.760 what would you say

01:19:34.080 if you did it enough

01:19:35.640 you could at least

01:19:36.420 test the hypothesis

01:19:37.540 that the unnecessary

01:19:38.700 misery and suffering

01:19:39.960 that surrounds you

01:19:40.860 and that characterizes

01:19:41.760 your life

01:19:42.280 and the life

01:19:43.140 of other people

01:19:43.880 isn't a consequence

01:19:45.560 of your inaction

01:19:46.740 and it's useful

01:19:47.960 to assume

01:19:48.860 to begin with

01:19:49.540 that it is

01:19:50.200 it's like

01:19:51.120 you got a problem

01:19:52.100 are you doing

01:19:53.540 everything you possibly

01:19:54.840 could with everything

01:19:55.740 that's at your disposal

01:19:56.760 to fix it

01:19:57.540 and maybe the answer

01:19:58.960 to that is yes

01:19:59.560 although that's highly

01:20:00.540 unlikely

01:20:01.100 right

01:20:01.860 because it's

01:20:02.320 well that's obviously

01:20:03.160 a very high demand

01:20:04.180 to place on anyone

01:20:05.080 but it's

01:20:05.780 there's an optimism

01:20:06.580 in that

01:20:07.180 it's like

01:20:07.560 well

01:20:07.780 how

01:20:08.340 even if you're dealing

01:20:09.780 with someone

01:20:10.220 who's quite unreasonable

01:20:11.540 like you're 90% reasonable

01:20:14.160 and 10% unreasonable

01:20:15.980 and they're the reverse

01:20:17.060 you know

01:20:17.780 which is pretty much

01:20:18.680 the case

01:20:19.220 in every marriage

01:20:20.240 for example

01:20:21.220 so

01:20:22.700 you know

01:20:23.480 you could probably

01:20:24.660 fix the 10% of you

01:20:26.180 that's unreasonable

01:20:26.920 maybe you could

01:20:27.520 reduce that to 5%

01:20:28.820 and God only knows

01:20:29.960 what effect

01:20:30.440 that would have

01:20:31.040 on the unreasonableness

01:20:32.040 of the other person

01:20:33.020 might reduce it

01:20:34.040 by 50%

01:20:34.880 because a lot of it

01:20:35.820 was just a delusion

01:20:36.800 on your part

01:20:37.540 to begin with

01:20:38.300 and was actually

01:20:39.100 a consequence

01:20:39.680 of your own

01:20:40.380 moral inadequacy

01:20:41.460 and like I've studied

01:20:42.820 people

01:20:43.620 who do terrible things

01:20:45.660 you know

01:20:45.960 like the people

01:20:46.820 who shot up

01:20:47.460 the Columbine High School

01:20:48.480 or the person

01:20:49.540 who shot up

01:20:50.240 the you know

01:20:50.940 the elementary school

01:20:51.880 in Connecticut

01:20:52.540 he's absolutely

01:20:53.640 the elementary school

01:20:55.040 crime being a particularly

01:20:56.240 what would you call it

01:20:57.880 a particularly

01:20:58.420 vicious

01:20:59.960 and vile crime

01:21:01.120 because

01:21:01.460 it was

01:21:02.080 it was exactly

01:21:03.000 designed to produce

01:21:04.020 maximal suffering

01:21:05.140 among the innocent

01:21:05.960 which is the worst

01:21:06.920 kind of crime

01:21:07.760 right

01:21:08.040 it's one thing

01:21:08.760 to punish the guilty

01:21:09.820 that's what vigilantes

01:21:11.020 do in vigilante movies

01:21:12.360 but if you

01:21:12.980 if you

01:21:13.660 if you hate

01:21:14.440 existence

01:21:15.600 you don't punish

01:21:16.400 the guilty

01:21:17.060 you punish

01:21:18.320 the innocent

01:21:19.000 right

01:21:20.020 and so you can tell

01:21:20.840 when someone's done that

01:21:22.080 where exactly they are

01:21:23.260 they're in something

01:21:24.000 so close to hell

01:21:24.940 that there's no point

01:21:25.820 in making the distinction

01:21:26.820 it's like

01:21:27.560 well

01:21:27.880 if you're bitter

01:21:28.760 and miserable

01:21:29.300 about your life

01:21:30.180 and you start to think

01:21:31.040 about the terrible

01:21:32.320 catastrophe

01:21:32.920 of the structure

01:21:33.760 of reality

01:21:34.320 which is where

01:21:35.020 your mind

01:21:35.460 is logically

01:21:36.120 going to go

01:21:36.880 you know

01:21:37.220 how can things

01:21:37.980 be so terrible

01:21:38.740 and aimed at me

01:21:39.740 it's a

01:21:40.420 it's a

01:21:40.760 you know

01:21:41.220 it's a

01:21:41.580 it's a common way

01:21:42.740 for people to think

01:21:43.740 when

01:21:44.020 when they're

01:21:44.780 not bearing up

01:21:46.560 very well

01:21:47.120 under the

01:21:47.560 the catastrophe

01:21:48.920 of existence

01:21:49.720 it makes you bitter

01:21:50.880 and resentful

01:21:51.700 and makes you likely

01:21:52.560 to take revenge

01:21:53.380 on the world

01:21:53.960 all that does

01:21:54.880 is make things worse

01:21:56.020 it's a better thing

01:21:57.240 to do

01:21:57.520 is to reverse that

01:21:58.440 and think

01:21:58.840 and this is a

01:21:59.680 moral

01:22:00.160 moral duty

01:22:02.720 let's say

01:22:03.420 you know

01:22:03.720 in the new testament

01:22:05.140 there's an idea

01:22:05.940 that the messianic figure

01:22:07.780 so that's the figure

01:22:08.540 of redemption

01:22:09.040 does two things

01:22:10.020 one is to take

01:22:11.020 the sins of the world

01:22:11.940 on himself

01:22:12.480 and the other

01:22:12.940 is to confront malevolence

01:22:14.220 and so that's the meeting

01:22:15.160 say with satan

01:22:16.180 in the desert

01:22:16.740 and you think

01:22:17.540 well what does that mean

01:22:18.200 psychologically

01:22:18.840 well it means that

01:22:20.160 if things aren't

01:22:21.100 how they should be

01:22:21.960 it's your fault

01:22:23.320 it's your responsibility

01:22:25.280 no matter what it is

01:22:26.740 Dostoevsky said

01:22:27.940 not only are you

01:22:30.460 responsible for

01:22:31.260 everything you do

01:22:31.940 you're responsible

01:22:32.640 for everything

01:22:33.300 that everyone else does

01:22:34.380 and like there's a

01:22:35.280 tinge of insanity

01:22:36.340 about that remark

01:22:37.500 you know

01:22:37.860 and there's a tinge

01:22:38.960 of insanity

01:22:39.560 in Dostoevsky as well

01:22:40.800 but he was an absolute

01:22:41.680 genius

01:22:42.220 and there's something

01:22:43.240 about it that's right

01:22:44.160 is that things around

01:22:45.560 you would be far better

01:22:46.820 if you weren't

01:22:47.840 less than you should be

01:22:49.900 and then the question is

01:22:51.280 and I think this is

01:22:51.980 the adventure of your life

01:22:53.300 I truly believe

01:22:54.200 that this is the adventure

01:22:55.120 of your life

01:22:55.680 is how much better

01:22:57.160 could things be

01:22:58.220 if you were better

01:22:59.440 than you are

01:23:00.360 and I think that

01:23:02.200 you know the idea

01:23:03.040 that we have

01:23:03.640 that's at the basis

01:23:04.380 of our culture

01:23:05.040 is that each of us

01:23:05.820 has this undeniable

01:23:07.240 divine worth

01:23:08.160 and that that worth

01:23:09.300 is so significant

01:23:10.720 that it's reasonable

01:23:11.760 to attribute to each of us

01:23:13.240 the sovereignty

01:23:14.220 that makes us

01:23:15.060 all the cornerstone

01:23:16.140 of our societies

01:23:17.060 right

01:23:17.360 that's the idea

01:23:18.220 of our culture

01:23:18.960 and underneath that

01:23:20.280 is the idea

01:23:20.800 that there's way more

01:23:21.920 to you

01:23:22.360 there's so much more

01:23:23.640 to you than you think

01:23:24.660 that there's enough

01:23:25.440 to deal with

01:23:26.420 the catastrophe of existence

01:23:27.780 if you would just have

01:23:28.800 the courage

01:23:29.300 and the faith

01:23:29.860 to allow that

01:23:30.840 to manifest itself

01:23:31.940 and that's

01:23:32.720 even if that's

01:23:33.640 it's hard to believe

01:23:35.300 that that might be true

01:23:36.420 but you see people

01:23:37.420 bearing up under

01:23:38.240 unbelievable loads

01:23:39.440 and acting in a

01:23:40.380 in an incredibly

01:23:41.620 beneficial

01:23:42.340 and heroic way

01:23:43.400 under circumstances

01:23:44.740 that are absolutely

01:23:45.600 dreadful

01:23:46.240 like you can see

01:23:46.940 people doing that

01:23:47.740 even yourself

01:23:48.660 from time to time

01:23:49.700 it's within the power

01:23:51.320 of a human being

01:23:52.020 to do that

01:23:52.640 and so there's

01:23:53.340 an open question

01:23:54.200 and I think that's

01:23:55.240 the open question

01:23:55.960 of the future

01:23:56.620 is that

01:23:56.980 how much better

01:23:57.940 could things be

01:23:58.760 if you got your act

01:24:00.200 together

01:24:00.700 and how much

01:24:01.900 less terrible

01:24:02.900 would they be

01:24:03.540 which is even

01:24:04.060 a more germane question

01:24:05.500 that was the question

01:24:06.660 that sort of drove me

01:24:07.900 when I had studied

01:24:09.000 totalitarianism

01:24:10.020 it's not only that

01:24:10.820 if you don't manifest

01:24:12.240 what's within you

01:24:13.400 that heaven doesn't

01:24:14.320 make its appearance

01:24:15.060 on earth

01:24:15.580 it's that

01:24:15.940 if you don't manifest

01:24:17.280 what's within you

01:24:18.400 that you leave a hole

01:24:19.720 in the structure of reality

01:24:21.320 that's filled by something

01:24:23.000 that approximates hell

01:24:24.500 and we just can't do that

01:24:26.400 enough of that

01:24:27.640 and so you take

01:24:28.800 you take that responsibility

01:24:36.800 onto yourself

01:24:38.000 you know

01:24:38.420 and you say

01:24:38.920 well I'm going to put

01:24:40.080 my house in perfect order

01:24:41.460 before I criticize the world

01:24:43.040 and that's a good place

01:24:44.420 to stop

01:24:45.040 so thank you very much

01:24:46.840 all right man

01:24:59.260 this is it for the year

01:25:00.440 what are you going to do

01:25:01.160 with yourself

01:25:01.840 there's a long list

01:25:04.600 of things

01:25:05.200 the first thing

01:25:07.040 I'm going to do

01:25:07.620 is to go over

01:25:08.200 to Vancouver Island

01:25:08.980 and spend some time

01:25:09.840 with my wife's family

01:25:10.800 so I'm looking forward

01:25:11.800 to that

01:25:12.180 they're all here tonight

01:25:13.340 so

01:25:13.680 well I can

01:25:16.360 I can tell you

01:25:17.120 a little bit

01:25:17.640 I guess I'll just

01:25:18.820 answer the question

01:25:19.660 I mean

01:25:20.060 I'm going to tape

01:25:22.180 a series of lectures

01:25:23.160 on Monday

01:25:25.380 on personality

01:25:26.840 for this company

01:25:27.640 called Red Seat

01:25:28.540 and then I'm going

01:25:30.000 to Washington

01:25:30.660 and I'm going to talk

01:25:32.180 to a bunch of Republicans

01:25:33.160 in Washington

01:25:33.880 and I've been talking

01:25:35.360 to a bunch of Democrats

01:25:36.360 in the United States

01:25:37.460 and I've been working

01:25:38.300 with people

01:25:38.760 who are trying

01:25:39.280 to pull the Democrats

01:25:40.180 back to the sensible center

01:25:41.680 and that seems to be

01:25:42.960 and that seems to be working

01:25:48.960 it actually seems

01:25:50.080 to be working

01:25:50.660 a very large number

01:25:51.880 of the candidates

01:25:52.560 for the House

01:25:53.300 in the United States

01:25:54.700 that were elected

01:25:55.280 in the midterms

01:25:56.020 were sensible

01:25:57.020 centrist candidates

01:25:58.000 and that's partly

01:25:59.360 a consequence

01:25:59.920 of a calculated move

01:26:02.140 on the part

01:26:02.660 of people

01:26:03.180 within and surrounding

01:26:04.820 the Democrat

01:26:05.380 the Democrat Party

01:26:07.160 the Democratic Party

01:26:08.160 to do precisely that

01:26:09.300 and so it seems

01:26:10.180 to be working

01:26:10.740 and so I'm hoping

01:26:11.520 to go down

01:26:12.020 to Washington

01:26:12.680 to talk

01:26:13.280 to these Republicans

01:26:14.700 to see if they can

01:26:16.080 find a way

01:26:16.620 of interacting

01:26:17.620 properly

01:26:18.560 with the more

01:26:19.600 centrist Democrats

01:26:20.540 to stop this process

01:26:21.760 to not to stop

01:26:23.080 but to make

01:26:24.280 some progress

01:26:25.100 towards halting

01:26:26.500 this insane polarization

01:26:28.600 that's dangerous

01:26:29.760 and that we don't want

01:26:30.780 to engage in

01:26:31.460 any more than

01:26:32.000 absolutely necessary

01:26:33.040 so that's

01:26:34.780 and then I'm going

01:26:41.480 to Florida

01:26:42.040 to talk to a group

01:26:43.800 of young conservatives

01:26:45.020 that you're going

01:26:46.800 there too

01:26:47.240 that's what organization

01:26:48.360 is that's

01:26:49.180 that's Turning Point USA

01:26:50.400 student action

01:26:51.220 right right

01:26:51.920 so yeah

01:26:52.520 so that's a young

01:26:53.420 that's a group

01:26:54.280 of young conservatives

01:26:55.320 and what I'm trying

01:26:56.720 to talk to them about

01:26:57.660 and have already

01:26:58.380 is about the relationship

01:26:59.640 between meaning

01:27:01.780 and responsibility

01:27:02.600 because that's

01:27:03.620 that's a very useful

01:27:04.920 topic for

01:27:06.640 for young people

01:27:07.520 who are

01:27:08.180 who are politically oriented

01:27:09.560 and so that

01:27:11.260 pretty much does

01:27:12.440 in December

01:27:15.280 and then

01:27:16.020 in January

01:27:18.040 I'm going to be working

01:27:19.100 with a small team

01:27:19.920 of people

01:27:20.300 that I've already hired

01:27:21.200 on this

01:27:21.660 on an educational initiative

01:27:23.240 I announced yesterday

01:27:25.480 with a

01:27:25.980 with a business school

01:27:27.100 the creation

01:27:28.520 of 50 fellowship positions

01:27:30.340 we're trying to produce

01:27:31.740 a partnership

01:27:33.360 with a business school

01:27:34.720 in the US

01:27:35.340 to help foster

01:27:36.480 entrepreneurial activity

01:27:37.740 and the guy

01:27:38.560 that runs that

01:27:39.260 Jeff Sandifer

01:27:39.980 also has a

01:27:41.140 consortium

01:27:42.500 of private schools

01:27:43.440 for younger people

01:27:44.880 and we're going to test

01:27:46.840 our educational software

01:27:47.980 on them

01:27:48.580 and that's part of this

01:27:49.880 idea

01:27:50.360 about an online

01:27:51.340 education system

01:27:52.660 and I've hired people

01:27:53.500 to work on that

01:27:54.200 so I hope to be working

01:27:55.120 on that in January

01:27:56.080 and then in February

01:27:57.440 I'm going to Australia

01:27:58.540 and you're coming

01:27:59.600 hopefully

01:28:00.140 and my wife

01:28:01.640 is coming along

01:28:02.340 hopefully

01:28:02.740 and maybe we'll go

01:28:04.240 to Hong Kong

01:28:04.800 and Singapore

01:28:05.300 and Seoul

01:28:05.860 and that basically

01:28:07.780 will take us

01:28:08.400 to the end

01:28:08.880 of February

01:28:09.880 and then I won't

01:28:10.460 tell you about

01:28:10.980 anything else

01:28:11.560 because that's enough

01:28:12.280 so

01:28:13.480 so what you're saying

01:28:15.980 is

01:28:16.380 you're retiring

01:28:18.380 did I get that right

01:28:20.900 we're going to do

01:28:21.560 two of the greatest hits

01:28:22.580 that we get all the time

01:28:23.600 this one of course

01:28:24.460 we have gotten

01:28:25.280 in every city

01:28:26.280 in Canada

01:28:27.260 when are you running

01:28:28.840 for Prime Minister

01:28:29.540 well I can tell you

01:28:41.700 one thing

01:28:42.120 it's certainly not

01:28:43.460 until I learn

01:28:44.960 a hell of a lot

01:28:45.540 more about policy

01:28:46.420 than I already know

01:28:47.360 you know

01:28:48.200 because it turns out

01:28:49.120 that despite

01:28:50.060 what you might think

01:28:51.060 by observing

01:28:51.660 our current Prime Minister

01:28:52.780 you actually have to

01:28:53.680 know something

01:28:54.240 about policy

01:28:55.000 before you should

01:28:55.720 yeah I'm not very happy

01:29:06.340 with him

01:29:06.820 I just went and talked

01:29:09.080 to a bunch of people

01:29:09.940 in Alberta

01:29:10.540 you know

01:29:10.980 and they're having

01:29:11.860 a real hard time

01:29:12.640 with their gas and oil

01:29:13.600 industry there

01:29:14.380 and that's a real

01:29:15.420 catastrophe for Alberta

01:29:16.640 and Trudeau's contribution

01:29:18.160 to that seems to have been

01:29:19.840 from what I could gather

01:29:20.800 to insist to the people

01:29:22.060 that he was talking about

01:29:22.920 that the number of women

01:29:24.720 and men

01:29:25.220 in the gas and oil industry

01:29:26.460 will be precisely equal

01:29:27.680 by the year 2030

01:29:28.760 I'm not kidding

01:29:29.960 I'm not kidding

01:29:30.920 that was his

01:29:31.660 that was his contribution

01:29:33.120 to the economic catastrophe

01:29:35.260 in Alberta

01:29:35.920 so anyways

01:29:38.240 apart from all that

01:29:40.000 I'm doing some of these

01:29:41.300 political things

01:29:42.040 that I've already

01:29:42.760 talked to you about

01:29:43.940 and I'm trying to learn

01:29:45.000 a lot about

01:29:45.840 what might constitute

01:29:46.960 reasonable policy

01:29:48.040 across a lot of

01:29:48.860 different dimensions

01:29:49.560 and hopefully

01:29:50.760 that'll prove useful

01:29:51.720 in a variety of ways

01:29:52.740 I don't know though

01:29:54.060 about an overtly

01:29:55.700 political career

01:29:56.480 because

01:29:56.900 there's a conflict

01:29:58.820 between that

01:29:59.520 and what I'm doing

01:30:00.320 now

01:30:01.560 whatever that is

01:30:03.480 with all of you

01:30:04.400 people

01:30:05.140 because you're here

01:30:06.220 for whatever that is too

01:30:07.580 and

01:30:07.820 I mean

01:30:09.640 I think what we're

01:30:10.340 trying to do

01:30:10.840 is have a serious

01:30:11.680 discussion about

01:30:12.540 the structure of the world

01:30:13.600 and about how to act in it

01:30:14.840 and

01:30:15.000 that's an important

01:30:16.540 discussion to have

01:30:17.460 and as I already

01:30:18.580 pointed out

01:30:19.300 you know

01:30:19.660 that seems to

01:30:20.660 there seems to be

01:30:21.600 a real demand

01:30:22.580 for that discussion

01:30:23.520 everywhere in the world

01:30:24.520 and my sense is

01:30:26.000 that the most important

01:30:26.920 thing that you can

01:30:27.780 possibly do

01:30:28.600 and this is something

01:30:30.160 that transcends

01:30:30.980 political importance

01:30:31.860 is to do what you can

01:30:32.960 to improve the

01:30:34.240 resilience and strength

01:30:35.520 of people at the

01:30:36.260 individual level

01:30:37.120 and I'm not willing

01:30:38.320 to forego that

01:30:39.240 opportunity to do

01:30:40.240 something political

01:30:41.000 because I think

01:30:41.780 the political system

01:30:43.100 can't operate properly

01:30:44.260 without functional

01:30:45.520 individuals

01:30:46.260 and so

01:30:47.080 all right

01:30:55.740 here's the other

01:30:56.420 greatest hit

01:30:57.160 and I'm only doing it

01:30:58.200 because it's the last

01:30:58.980 show of the year

01:30:59.800 and I'm not making it up

01:31:01.260 do you wear

01:31:02.940 tighty-whities

01:31:03.860 or boxers

01:31:04.980 this has come up

01:31:09.720 I don't know why

01:31:10.640 I don't know why

01:31:11.360 either

01:31:11.540 we have that person

01:31:12.400 they must follow us

01:31:13.280 around

01:31:13.640 and they

01:31:16.020 it might be easier

01:31:17.200 just to show it

01:31:18.280 at one point

01:31:19.000 just to have

01:31:19.580 which I'm not going

01:31:21.360 that's a whole other

01:31:22.120 show people

01:31:22.860 that's only for the

01:31:25.440 meet and greet people

01:31:26.200 we've been

01:31:27.900 they got very excited

01:31:30.440 in this front area

01:31:31.280 right here

01:31:31.740 we've been asked

01:31:34.180 this question a lot

01:31:35.140 and I have a stock

01:31:36.000 answer which is

01:31:36.740 I wear pants

01:31:38.180 so I don't have to

01:31:39.180 answer that question

01:31:40.200 so

01:31:41.000 okay let's

01:31:44.700 let's change gears

01:31:45.580 a little bit

01:31:46.040 regarding the opioid

01:31:47.600 problem in Vancouver

01:31:48.880 especially on the

01:31:49.740 east side of the city

01:31:50.740 do you think that

01:31:51.600 this problem

01:31:52.320 is rooted in

01:31:53.160 biology

01:31:53.800 the family

01:31:54.840 or something else

01:31:56.180 well it's definitely

01:31:58.440 rooted in part

01:31:59.500 in biology

01:32:00.200 because you know

01:32:00.880 there's

01:32:01.200 there's lots of people

01:32:03.100 I mean there are

01:32:03.960 new opiates

01:32:04.600 that are extraordinarily

01:32:05.400 powerful

01:32:05.980 and we don't know

01:32:06.680 a lot about them

01:32:07.780 you know

01:32:08.060 there are new

01:32:08.420 synthetic opioids

01:32:09.360 and it's actually

01:32:11.400 one of the

01:32:11.880 unintended consequences

01:32:13.100 of drug policy

01:32:14.220 you know

01:32:14.600 because what's

01:32:15.480 happened over the

01:32:16.640 last 30 years

01:32:17.500 is that

01:32:17.960 of course there's

01:32:19.300 a whole variety

01:32:19.960 of substances

01:32:20.940 that are illegal

01:32:21.800 and there are

01:32:22.340 reasons for that

01:32:23.100 but

01:32:24.540 it isn't obvious

01:32:26.380 that making

01:32:27.000 those substances

01:32:27.840 illegal

01:32:28.460 constitutes the

01:32:29.720 most effective

01:32:30.380 way of dealing

01:32:31.280 with their existence

01:32:32.440 places like

01:32:34.180 Portugal for example

01:32:35.360 have legalized

01:32:36.340 all

01:32:37.080 drugs of abuse

01:32:38.620 and now for

01:32:39.660 quite a while

01:32:40.140 I think it's

01:32:40.560 10 years

01:32:41.060 in Portugal

01:32:41.580 and that's

01:32:42.460 actually been

01:32:43.020 quite effective

01:32:43.740 and you know

01:32:44.440 one of the

01:32:44.780 problems with

01:32:45.280 making drugs

01:32:45.880 illegal is

01:32:46.520 that you

01:32:46.900 you push

01:32:48.140 a tremendous

01:32:48.840 amount of

01:32:49.380 money into

01:32:49.800 the hands

01:32:50.160 of criminals

01:32:50.720 and pushing

01:32:52.820 a tremendous

01:32:53.540 amount of

01:32:54.360 money into

01:32:54.840 the hands

01:32:55.240 of organized

01:32:55.760 criminals

01:32:56.160 over multiple

01:32:56.820 decades

01:32:57.200 is not a

01:32:57.880 very wise

01:32:58.400 policy decision

01:32:59.360 but one of

01:33:00.180 the other

01:33:00.500 unintended

01:33:00.980 consequences

01:33:01.620 is that

01:33:02.180 you know

01:33:02.840 the chemists

01:33:03.620 the criminal

01:33:05.360 chemists

01:33:05.920 are sort of

01:33:06.580 at war

01:33:07.760 with the

01:33:08.300 bureaucrats

01:33:08.980 and the

01:33:09.680 bureaucrats

01:33:10.200 make a

01:33:10.720 substance

01:33:11.080 illegal

01:33:11.480 and then

01:33:11.840 the criminal

01:33:12.240 chemists

01:33:12.800 modify the

01:33:14.580 substance

01:33:14.960 by one

01:33:15.600 little

01:33:15.820 molecular

01:33:16.260 piece

01:33:16.940 and so

01:33:17.680 it still

01:33:18.040 has the

01:33:18.460 same

01:33:18.700 effects

01:33:19.160 as the

01:33:19.600 illegal

01:33:19.920 drug

01:33:20.200 but for

01:33:20.540 a temporary

01:33:21.080 period of

01:33:21.580 time

01:33:21.780 it's legal

01:33:22.300 and they

01:33:22.920 produce now

01:33:23.540 like instead

01:33:24.220 of the

01:33:24.640 sort of

01:33:25.060 10

01:33:25.400 psychoactive

01:33:26.260 addictive

01:33:26.680 compounds

01:33:27.260 that we

01:33:27.600 had 30

01:33:28.040 years ago

01:33:28.400 we have

01:33:28.620 like 300

01:33:29.320 and some

01:33:30.100 of them

01:33:30.380 are way

01:33:31.080 more powerful

01:33:31.860 than they

01:33:32.260 were to

01:33:32.560 begin with

01:33:33.000 and that's

01:33:33.420 also the

01:33:33.860 case with

01:33:34.240 the synthetic

01:33:34.740 opioids

01:33:35.260 and so

01:33:35.980 partly

01:33:36.300 there's a

01:33:36.700 technological

01:33:37.280 and sociological

01:33:38.260 problem

01:33:38.780 and then

01:33:39.140 with opioid

01:33:40.220 abuse

01:33:40.880 there's also

01:33:41.400 a biological

01:33:42.000 component

01:33:42.580 because

01:33:42.960 you know

01:33:44.220 there are

01:33:44.740 people who

01:33:45.180 take opiates

01:33:45.840 and really

01:33:46.160 don't like

01:33:46.700 them

01:33:46.980 lots of

01:33:47.960 people are

01:33:48.300 like that

01:33:48.740 it's not

01:33:49.200 like everyone

01:33:49.760 who takes

01:33:50.260 them will

01:33:50.540 immediately

01:33:50.920 become

01:33:51.320 addicted

01:33:51.700 but some

01:33:52.260 people are

01:33:52.760 extremely

01:33:53.320 sensitive

01:33:53.940 to the

01:33:54.960 sorts of

01:33:55.380 opiate

01:33:55.700 effects

01:33:56.060 that produce

01:33:56.620 addiction

01:33:56.980 just like

01:33:57.460 some people

01:33:57.920 are sensitive

01:33:58.460 to the

01:33:59.140 effects of

01:34:00.000 alcohol

01:34:00.520 that produce

01:34:01.160 alcoholism

01:34:01.840 I had a

01:34:02.600 friend

01:34:02.880 he was a

01:34:03.320 cool guy

01:34:03.800 his name

01:34:04.240 was Frank

01:34:04.700 Irvin

01:34:05.000 and he

01:34:05.520 looked like

01:34:05.880 Ernest

01:34:06.180 Hemingway

01:34:06.600 he was

01:34:07.180 quite a bit

01:34:07.600 older than

01:34:08.180 me

01:34:08.400 he was a

01:34:09.780 professor of

01:34:10.360 mine when

01:34:10.680 I was at

01:34:11.000 McGill

01:34:11.320 and he was

01:34:12.460 interested in

01:34:13.040 the biological

01:34:13.640 basis of

01:34:14.360 criminality

01:34:14.940 and also of

01:34:15.680 alcoholism

01:34:16.340 and he had a

01:34:17.240 believe it or

01:34:17.880 not he had a

01:34:18.460 monkey farm

01:34:19.320 on St.

01:34:19.980 Kitts

01:34:20.360 and he was

01:34:22.280 raising alcoholic

01:34:23.260 monkeys

01:34:23.740 and he's the

01:34:25.300 only person

01:34:25.820 I ever met

01:34:26.360 who actually

01:34:26.900 did that

01:34:27.500 and it's not

01:34:28.000 that surprising

01:34:28.660 because it's a

01:34:29.200 real niche

01:34:29.680 market

01:34:30.100 and my

01:34:32.500 wife and I

01:34:33.120 actually went

01:34:33.720 down to

01:34:34.160 St.

01:34:34.440 Kitts about

01:34:34.940 five years

01:34:35.620 ago and

01:34:36.080 met his

01:34:36.740 wife there

01:34:37.480 Frank

01:34:38.260 unfortunately

01:34:38.780 was ill

01:34:39.240 at the

01:34:39.520 time

01:34:39.780 anyways

01:34:40.580 on St.

01:34:41.680 Kitts

01:34:41.900 they have

01:34:42.260 green monkeys

01:34:43.200 vervets

01:34:43.720 and they

01:34:45.600 also raise

01:34:46.280 sugar cane

01:34:46.860 there

01:34:47.100 and the

01:34:47.520 monkeys

01:34:47.740 get into

01:34:48.160 the fermented

01:34:48.660 sugar cane

01:34:49.320 from time

01:34:49.740 to time

01:34:50.120 and so

01:34:51.220 anyways

01:34:51.800 they'd gather

01:34:52.320 monkeys from

01:34:52.860 the wild

01:34:53.280 and then

01:34:53.600 they would

01:34:53.840 give them

01:34:54.140 alcoholic

01:34:54.600 beverages

01:34:55.160 and they

01:34:55.720 had to

01:34:56.040 sweeten them

01:34:56.520 because the

01:34:57.020 monkeys didn't

01:34:57.560 really like

01:34:57.940 the taste

01:34:58.300 of the

01:34:58.540 alcohol

01:34:58.860 but five

01:34:59.760 percent of

01:35:00.460 the monkeys

01:35:00.920 would drink

01:35:01.440 Tacoma

01:35:01.960 on first

01:35:02.640 exposure

01:35:03.200 and Frank

01:35:04.880 had footage

01:35:05.480 of them

01:35:05.820 it looked

01:35:06.080 just like

01:35:06.440 a frat

01:35:06.840 party

01:35:07.220 you know

01:35:07.900 I mean

01:35:08.240 the monkeys

01:35:08.860 were hanging

01:35:09.460 upside down

01:35:10.300 in the

01:35:10.560 trees

01:35:10.880 but like

01:35:11.780 most of

01:35:12.260 the monkeys

01:35:12.620 would have

01:35:12.980 a sip

01:35:13.280 or two

01:35:13.580 and desist

01:35:14.200 and some

01:35:14.600 of them

01:35:14.800 would drink

01:35:15.240 a reasonable

01:35:15.960 social amount

01:35:16.940 and you know

01:35:17.440 then go home

01:35:18.160 while they were

01:35:19.060 still able to

01:35:19.680 drive

01:35:20.040 but five

01:35:21.540 percent of

01:35:22.840 them

01:35:22.980 they were

01:35:23.260 just

01:35:23.500 the first

01:35:23.920 time they

01:35:24.280 tried it

01:35:24.660 they just

01:35:25.040 couldn't stop

01:35:26.080 and they

01:35:26.360 just pass

01:35:27.060 out

01:35:27.320 and that's

01:35:27.800 a good

01:35:27.980 example

01:35:28.380 of the

01:35:28.700 biological

01:35:29.180 differences

01:35:29.820 and so

01:35:30.860 and then

01:35:31.780 the other

01:35:32.140 thing that

01:35:32.500 you see

01:35:32.860 I think

01:35:33.240 that contributes

01:35:33.800 to opioid

01:35:34.520 abuse

01:35:34.960 in particular

01:35:35.520 is opiates

01:35:36.240 are good

01:35:37.400 analgesics

01:35:38.500 they're good

01:35:38.900 at alleviating

01:35:39.600 pain

01:35:40.140 in particular

01:35:40.780 and so

01:35:41.200 people who

01:35:41.720 are in

01:35:42.160 pain

01:35:42.680 grieving

01:35:43.420 or

01:35:44.140 disappointed

01:35:45.600 or frustrated

01:35:46.440 suffering

01:35:47.160 from an

01:35:47.640 excess of

01:35:48.300 pain

01:35:48.580 related

01:35:48.960 emotions

01:35:49.440 and sometimes

01:35:50.340 that's actually

01:35:51.040 physical pain

01:35:51.800 itself

01:35:52.240 you know

01:35:53.300 a fair number

01:35:54.240 of people

01:35:54.660 who are seriously

01:35:55.380 depressed

01:35:55.920 I think

01:35:56.500 can't remember

01:35:57.040 what it is

01:35:57.480 I think

01:35:57.740 it's 40%

01:35:58.540 have a chronic

01:35:59.540 pain condition

01:36:00.400 as well

01:36:00.880 because depression

01:36:01.640 looks like

01:36:02.180 it's a pain

01:36:02.800 a pathology

01:36:04.200 of pain

01:36:04.660 opiates seem

01:36:05.600 particularly attractive

01:36:06.720 to people

01:36:07.260 who have that

01:36:07.860 class of problems

01:36:08.940 and so that's

01:36:09.520 another biological

01:36:10.320 contributor

01:36:11.020 and so that's

01:36:12.300 that kind of

01:36:13.040 covers that

01:36:13.680 territory

01:36:14.540 I'm still

01:36:17.020 trying to

01:36:17.340 picture you

01:36:17.760 on an island

01:36:18.460 with hundreds

01:36:19.100 of drunken

01:36:19.680 monkeys

01:36:20.160 that's like

01:36:21.860 if you were

01:36:22.280 a superhero

01:36:22.740 that's the

01:36:23.240 Jordan Peterson

01:36:23.920 origin story

01:36:24.820 right there

01:36:25.340 I increasingly

01:36:29.200 hear talk

01:36:29.980 of white

01:36:30.480 privilege

01:36:30.960 and microaggressions

01:36:32.540 from coworkers

01:36:33.360 I'd love

01:36:34.340 some advice

01:36:34.860 on how to

01:36:35.400 communicate

01:36:35.820 that these

01:36:36.440 are not

01:36:36.880 good ideas

01:36:37.760 well the

01:36:47.040 problem with

01:36:47.640 that is

01:36:47.940 it's so

01:36:48.300 specific

01:36:49.020 like

01:36:49.380 to be able

01:36:55.780 to answer

01:36:56.380 that question

01:36:57.060 with any

01:36:57.440 degree of

01:36:57.900 intelligence

01:36:58.380 I'd have to

01:36:59.040 know a lot

01:36:59.500 more about

01:36:59.980 the person

01:37:00.560 who's asking

01:37:01.220 the question

01:37:01.860 and the

01:37:02.420 workplace

01:37:02.840 because

01:37:03.300 obviously

01:37:04.340 the fact

01:37:04.940 that these

01:37:05.320 topics have

01:37:05.940 come up

01:37:06.400 means that

01:37:07.060 the workplace

01:37:07.580 has become

01:37:08.220 politicized

01:37:09.160 and the

01:37:10.340 fact that

01:37:10.920 the question

01:37:11.420 is being

01:37:11.860 asked

01:37:12.280 also means

01:37:13.200 that

01:37:13.520 there's

01:37:14.680 already

01:37:15.200 an awkwardness

01:37:16.220 in the

01:37:16.540 discussion

01:37:17.040 in the

01:37:17.500 territory

01:37:18.260 for discussion

01:37:19.040 right

01:37:19.340 because otherwise

01:37:19.860 it wouldn't

01:37:20.260 be a concern

01:37:20.940 and

01:37:21.860 it isn't

01:37:23.640 obvious

01:37:24.120 how to

01:37:24.580 go about

01:37:25.180 dealing

01:37:26.780 with that

01:37:27.440 sort of

01:37:29.800 situation

01:37:30.380 without

01:37:30.760 inflaming it

01:37:31.680 or causing

01:37:32.320 more trouble

01:37:32.980 than the

01:37:33.620 good that

01:37:34.100 might be

01:37:34.540 produced

01:37:34.960 and so

01:37:35.440 I'll give

01:37:36.360 a stand

01:37:37.200 back

01:37:37.560 and I'll

01:37:37.820 give

01:37:37.980 a more

01:37:38.260 generic

01:37:38.740 answer

01:37:39.220 to

01:37:39.500 what

01:37:40.200 you

01:37:40.440 have

01:37:40.780 to

01:37:40.960 do

01:37:41.240 if

01:37:41.860 you're

01:37:42.040 in a

01:37:42.360 situation

01:37:42.940 that's

01:37:43.780 starting

01:37:44.080 to cause

01:37:44.640 you

01:37:44.840 resentment

01:37:45.440 this is

01:37:46.780 useful

01:37:47.160 thing to

01:37:47.620 know

01:37:47.800 because

01:37:48.140 you're

01:37:48.500 going to

01:37:48.660 be in

01:37:48.920 situations

01:37:49.440 that make

01:37:49.900 you resentful

01:37:50.600 and resentment

01:37:51.620 is a dreadful

01:37:52.720 emotion

01:37:53.200 like I think

01:37:54.120 there's three

01:37:54.860 motivations or

01:37:56.480 emotions

01:37:56.960 or states

01:37:57.800 of being

01:37:58.280 let's say

01:37:58.700 that really

01:37:59.140 take people

01:37:59.800 out

01:38:00.140 there's

01:38:00.900 resentment

01:38:01.880 there's

01:38:03.140 deceit

01:38:03.740 and there's

01:38:04.220 arrogance

01:38:04.600 and if you

01:38:05.120 get those

01:38:05.500 three working

01:38:06.020 together

01:38:06.460 then that

01:38:07.480 really produces

01:38:08.180 something that's

01:38:08.900 hellish

01:38:09.380 it's one of the

01:38:10.340 chapters that I'm

01:38:11.060 writing in my

01:38:11.600 next book

01:38:12.160 it's about the

01:38:12.800 interaction between

01:38:13.620 those three

01:38:14.080 things

01:38:14.440 but resentment

01:38:15.560 is also

01:38:16.160 extremely useful

01:38:17.320 it's a really

01:38:18.280 useful

01:38:18.900 marker

01:38:21.100 because

01:38:22.440 and it's something

01:38:23.360 that I spent a lot

01:38:24.140 of time talking to

01:38:24.960 my clinical clients

01:38:25.880 about because

01:38:26.440 there's kind of

01:38:28.100 two things

01:38:28.660 there's

01:38:29.860 there's four

01:38:31.400 things that you

01:38:32.060 do really as a

01:38:32.940 clinician

01:38:33.320 you help people

01:38:34.800 get their stories

01:38:35.480 together about the

01:38:36.320 past and the

01:38:36.880 present and the

01:38:37.400 future

01:38:37.720 you help

01:38:39.380 and you help

01:38:39.880 them strategize

01:38:40.760 and so that

01:38:41.600 would be one

01:38:42.040 thing

01:38:42.240 you help them

01:38:43.120 deal with

01:38:43.780 anxiety and

01:38:44.680 depression and

01:38:45.240 other negative

01:38:45.740 emotions

01:38:46.280 you help them

01:38:49.280 formulate a plan

01:38:50.100 for the future

01:38:50.700 that's a part of

01:38:51.640 it and then

01:38:52.060 you also

01:38:53.000 frequently help

01:38:54.020 them become

01:38:54.440 more assertive

01:38:55.440 and that's

01:38:56.960 really not

01:38:57.320 quite the

01:38:57.820 right terminology

01:38:58.620 because really

01:38:59.300 what you're

01:38:59.660 trying to do

01:39:00.080 is help

01:39:00.500 them learn

01:39:01.040 to integrate

01:39:01.740 their aggression

01:39:02.600 and so

01:39:04.060 people are

01:39:05.300 often feeling

01:39:06.060 resentful

01:39:06.580 because they

01:39:07.060 feel taken

01:39:07.560 advantage of

01:39:08.260 and sometimes

01:39:08.820 they feel

01:39:09.300 taken advantage

01:39:09.960 of because

01:39:10.820 they're being

01:39:11.700 taken advantage

01:39:12.460 of and so

01:39:13.980 if you're

01:39:14.600 resentful

01:39:15.200 but not

01:39:15.960 always

01:39:16.380 if you're

01:39:17.740 resentful

01:39:18.200 you have to

01:39:18.680 ask yourself

01:39:19.400 two questions

01:39:21.220 you have to

01:39:21.780 say well

01:39:22.140 am I just

01:39:22.840 immature and

01:39:23.960 weak and

01:39:25.060 I'm feeling

01:39:25.720 sorry for

01:39:26.180 myself and

01:39:26.780 allowing myself

01:39:27.480 to drift

01:39:27.900 down that

01:39:28.380 path because

01:39:28.940 I can't

01:39:29.420 tolerate the

01:39:29.980 responsibility

01:39:30.580 I'm unwilling

01:39:31.260 to do that

01:39:31.860 and you have

01:39:33.320 to think that

01:39:33.900 through because

01:39:34.640 resentment can

01:39:35.440 devour you and

01:39:36.280 it'll make you

01:39:37.300 vicious in the

01:39:38.640 final analysis as

01:39:39.640 you seek for

01:39:40.180 revenge

01:39:40.580 it's a very

01:39:41.420 bad pathway

01:39:42.440 and it will

01:39:45.420 come out in

01:39:45.900 that manner

01:39:46.440 and so you

01:39:47.800 might have to

01:39:48.180 think that through

01:39:48.720 and you might

01:39:49.000 have to talk to

01:39:49.640 people that

01:39:50.100 know you and

01:39:50.740 that you love

01:39:51.340 to see

01:39:52.580 here's my

01:39:54.220 situation

01:39:54.800 I'm feeling

01:39:55.400 resentful about

01:39:56.200 it I'm being

01:39:56.620 harassed at

01:39:57.180 work I'm not

01:39:58.560 getting what I

01:39:59.100 deserve whatever

01:40:00.000 I feel that I'm

01:40:01.360 not is there

01:40:02.220 something wrong

01:40:02.880 with the way I'm

01:40:03.480 looking at this

01:40:04.180 and the answer

01:40:04.860 might be yeah

01:40:05.480 well you've got a

01:40:06.140 lot of growing up

01:40:06.780 to do you know

01:40:07.400 and so you

01:40:08.060 should just

01:40:08.560 shut the hell

01:40:10.100 up and take

01:40:11.220 it because that's

01:40:11.900 part of life

01:40:12.480 or the other

01:40:13.440 alternative is

01:40:14.180 no no there's

01:40:15.080 really something

01:40:15.620 that's not good

01:40:16.300 going on

01:40:16.840 that you are

01:40:18.420 entangled in

01:40:19.720 something that's

01:40:20.440 got a tyrannical

01:40:21.660 aspect and you

01:40:23.400 are being subjugated

01:40:25.080 by that and you're

01:40:26.520 starting to rebel

01:40:27.640 against that right

01:40:28.740 you're feeling that

01:40:29.820 life isn't tolerable

01:40:31.960 under those

01:40:32.560 conditions and if

01:40:33.880 it's the second

01:40:34.780 then you have

01:40:35.840 something to say

01:40:36.780 or do

01:40:37.280 what's the

01:40:38.700 alternative

01:40:39.160 right you're

01:40:40.660 either going to

01:40:41.080 stay admired in

01:40:41.880 resentment that's

01:40:43.120 a catastrophe and

01:40:44.000 it's likely to get

01:40:44.700 worse across time

01:40:45.680 and that's going to

01:40:46.260 make you bitter and

01:40:47.040 it's going to take

01:40:47.600 the joy out of

01:40:48.340 your life and it's

01:40:49.460 going to make you

01:40:49.960 desirous of revenge

01:40:51.280 it's a very bad

01:40:52.580 trajectory and you

01:40:53.820 want to think that

01:40:54.900 through or you

01:40:57.100 might have to stand

01:40:57.840 up and say what you

01:40:58.540 have to say and

01:40:59.700 like neither of

01:41:00.280 those options are

01:41:00.980 that pleasant you

01:41:02.920 know but but one

01:41:03.880 of the things that's

01:41:04.500 also useful to know

01:41:05.460 about life is

01:41:06.160 sometimes you're

01:41:06.800 screwed both ways

01:41:07.740 I'm dead serious

01:41:09.280 about that it's

01:41:09.920 unbelievably useful to

01:41:11.020 know because you

01:41:11.640 might suffer from the

01:41:12.520 delusion that there's

01:41:13.420 some easy way out

01:41:14.700 that wouldn't require

01:41:15.620 trouble and

01:41:16.240 suffering on your

01:41:17.020 part that you're

01:41:18.080 not seeing and so

01:41:19.440 you can forego the

01:41:20.360 decision sometimes

01:41:21.440 you're not in that

01:41:22.180 situation and let's

01:41:23.200 take this politicized

01:41:24.200 workplace as an

01:41:24.980 example it's like you

01:41:26.120 might already be in

01:41:26.900 trouble it might be

01:41:28.740 that you cannot

01:41:30.060 function in a healthy

01:41:31.960 manner in that

01:41:32.860 environment it's

01:41:34.040 already politicized to

01:41:35.640 too great a degree and

01:41:37.100 so now you have a

01:41:37.780 problem what are you

01:41:38.520 going to do about

01:41:39.120 that well the first

01:41:40.700 thing I would say is

01:41:41.660 prepare yourself and

01:41:44.520 so how do you prepare

01:41:45.300 yourself well let's say

01:41:46.300 your workplace has

01:41:47.100 become untenable well

01:41:48.760 you can't just have a

01:41:50.320 fit about it and get

01:41:51.080 fired because then

01:41:52.700 you're fired and like

01:41:55.200 maybe you have a

01:41:56.160 family and they depend

01:41:57.260 on you it's like that

01:41:58.260 that's not helpful then

01:41:59.460 you haven't fixed the

01:42:01.140 workplace and you're

01:42:02.020 just miserable and the

01:42:03.060 people who depend on

01:42:03.880 you are in worse

01:42:04.480 shape as a war like

01:42:07.440 strategy that's a really

01:42:08.780 bad one and so you

01:42:11.580 might think well my

01:42:12.380 workplace is becoming

01:42:13.260 politicized it's like

01:42:14.360 do I have some lateral

01:42:15.220 options you know could

01:42:16.900 I if necessary find a

01:42:19.480 different position and

01:42:21.420 maybe I should start

01:42:22.840 preparing for that put

01:42:24.900 your CV in order like

01:42:26.220 update your resume if

01:42:27.340 there's holes in it and

01:42:28.320 shortcomings in it fix

01:42:29.560 them start looking for

01:42:30.880 where else you might be

01:42:32.100 able to move laterally

01:42:33.120 or up because maybe you

01:42:34.160 could also use it as a

01:42:35.480 time to you know make a

01:42:37.240 career change in a

01:42:38.040 positive direction but you

01:42:39.380 better prepare yourself

01:42:40.620 because you're not going

01:42:41.900 to be able to say what

01:42:42.640 you have to say until you

01:42:43.680 prepare yourself because

01:42:45.180 you won't have the

01:42:45.940 courage or the strength or

01:42:47.920 the strategic intelligence

01:42:49.460 necessary to do that so

01:42:50.740 if you're going to stand

01:42:51.560 up you've got to position

01:42:52.940 yourself so that you're

01:42:53.940 not standing you know so

01:42:55.380 that someone can't just

01:42:56.160 push you over with a

01:42:57.200 single finger you have to

01:42:58.800 be ready and so you ready

01:43:01.720 yourself and then you

01:43:02.620 start to think it through

01:43:03.520 it's like okay well what

01:43:04.640 the hell is your problem

01:43:05.400 with the discussion of white

01:43:06.640 privilege why is that

01:43:07.800 bothering you well I just

01:43:09.500 don't think it's right it's

01:43:10.720 like yeah but that

01:43:12.960 argument's not going to

01:43:13.760 get you anywhere you know

01:43:15.020 you're going to have to be

01:43:15.760 a lot more sophisticated in

01:43:17.460 your analysis of the

01:43:18.520 problem than that in order

01:43:20.220 to address it and you're

01:43:21.600 going to have to figure out

01:43:22.160 well who's bringing it up

01:43:23.280 and what's their

01:43:23.840 motivations and what's

01:43:25.320 their power base and are

01:43:26.720 there other people that

01:43:27.680 they're also annoying who

01:43:29.460 aren't saying anything and

01:43:30.740 you need a whole strategy

01:43:32.260 for dealing with this and

01:43:33.360 it has to be intelligent

01:43:34.540 well thought through and so

01:43:36.620 but but it might be a

01:43:39.940 moral demand on you to

01:43:41.420 undergo all that effort

01:43:42.700 because what's the

01:43:43.640 alternative you if your

01:43:45.140 workplace starts to get

01:43:46.420 politicized and you're

01:43:47.800 starting to be genuinely

01:43:49.240 oppressed by that which is

01:43:51.100 the aim of a politicized

01:43:52.660 workplace by the way then

01:43:54.240 you have the option here's

01:43:56.280 your options you can either

01:43:57.500 submit to the slavery that

01:44:00.080 goes along with that and

01:44:01.060 become bitter and resentful and

01:44:02.460 let all the joy be taken out

01:44:03.760 of your workplace or you

01:44:05.280 can stand up and figure out

01:44:06.540 how to push back against it

01:44:07.820 so that you can maintain a

01:44:09.080 certain modicum of self

01:44:10.220 respect and maybe your

01:44:11.640 career along with it and

01:44:12.900 both of those are really

01:44:13.840 hard but you know at least

01:44:17.600 one has a certain amount of

01:44:18.900 nobility and dignity

01:44:20.060 associated with it and so

01:44:22.020 that's that's what I would

01:44:23.260 say about how to deal with

01:44:24.320 that it's really really

01:44:25.520 difficult and and it's you

01:44:28.440 know the other thing that I

01:44:29.960 learned from Carl Jung which

01:44:31.360 is really useful I thought this

01:44:33.140 was so brilliant he said

01:44:34.640 that complex social problems

01:44:36.220 are solved by people who

01:44:37.280 take their personal problems

01:44:38.700 with extreme seriousness so

01:44:41.320 let's say now you're one of

01:44:42.660 these people and you're in a

01:44:43.640 politicized workplace it's

01:44:45.280 like well now you're kind of

01:44:47.520 at the center of the storm in

01:44:49.180 some sense because you know

01:44:50.320 our whole discourse our

01:44:51.920 entire cultural discourse has

01:44:53.300 become politicized and that's

01:44:55.120 sort of abstract because it's

01:44:56.200 out there in the political

01:44:56.980 world but it's not abstract for

01:44:58.960 you all of a sudden it's right

01:45:00.820 there it's part of your life and

01:45:03.440 so and and it's part of your

01:45:04.680 life right down to the

01:45:06.020 particulars and so in order for

01:45:08.220 you to address that you're

01:45:09.640 really going to have to take

01:45:10.500 that problem apart because now

01:45:12.480 it's become part of your life

01:45:13.600 you're going to have to learn how

01:45:15.440 to to to make your to make your

01:45:19.660 case so that you're not the the

01:45:22.620 unwitting and resentful victim of a

01:45:25.640 of a politicized process that is

01:45:27.840 essentially aimed at something

01:45:29.000 tyrannical that's a big weight to

01:45:30.660 take on but if you figure out how

01:45:32.400 to do it then you know how to do

01:45:35.020 it you you've actually generated

01:45:37.360 you know you might think of it as

01:45:39.040 just as a micro solution because it

01:45:40.580 only applies to your case but

01:45:41.840 that's not the case it won't just

01:45:43.120 apply to your case there'll be the

01:45:46.220 fact that you've worked through

01:45:47.420 that in the particulars of your own

01:45:48.940 life will enable you to discover

01:45:50.880 something of general value and it's

01:45:53.300 those little battles that aren't

01:45:55.160 little the battle that that we're

01:45:56.840 talking about that's part and parcel

01:45:58.160 of that question that's the sort of

01:46:00.000 battle upon which the integrity of the

01:46:01.560 state actually depends when you read

01:46:03.800 about how totalitarian states develop

01:46:06.020 and maintain themselves what you see

01:46:07.520 when you when you break them down to

01:46:09.340 the micro processes is that all the

01:46:11.300 people that were in those

01:46:12.300 totalitarian states were faced with

01:46:14.420 that sort of conundrum and decision all

01:46:16.340 the time and they didn't stop it and

01:46:21.080 because they didn't stop it it got

01:46:22.700 worse

01:46:27.620 so you could take it on as a challenge

01:46:32.000 and I think that is what you should do

01:46:33.680 especially if it's starting to poison

01:46:35.420 your life but I would take it with all

01:46:37.760 due seriousness because it's the same

01:46:40.220 thing that's manifesting itself in the

01:46:42.140 political sphere as a whole and you're

01:46:44.720 going to be dealing with all of that

01:46:46.040 complexity right there in your

01:46:47.660 workplace and so it's a real

01:46:49.640 tremendous challenge but a challenge

01:46:53.420 that's adopted voluntarily as much

01:46:55.220 you're much more likely to succeed both

01:46:57.980 psychologically and practically if you

01:47:00.260 take it on voluntarily rather than

01:47:01.880 wait until it's chased you into a

01:47:03.560 corner and then start to try to fight

01:47:05.240 like a cornered rat in which case you're

01:47:07.040 very likely to lose and in a very

01:47:08.900 painful way so better earlier than

01:47:12.180 later so

01:47:13.820 all right we only have time for one

01:47:22.720 more this is the last one of the year

01:47:24.240 so you ready go deep you ready Jesus I

01:47:30.160 don't even know what that means it's

01:47:32.900 it's the underwear question again

01:47:34.680 how did you become the Jordan

01:47:41.300 Peterson that we're all watching here

01:47:44.520 tonight

01:47:45.080 god that's a weird question

01:47:50.600 that's an almost impossible question to

01:48:00.200 answer without being like unbearably

01:48:02.900 egotistical even by daring to consider

01:48:06.420 that a reasonable question so okay so so to

01:48:12.800 to the degree that that's a reasonable

01:48:14.800 question I'm going to rephrase it a

01:48:16.660 little bit because you know one of the

01:48:18.760 things that has been characteristic of

01:48:21.820 my career is that I've been an engaging

01:48:25.420 lecturer you know and so I lectured at

01:48:27.640 Harvard for about six years and then I

01:48:29.420 was at the University of Toronto for

01:48:30.940 about 20 and I lectured at McGill a

01:48:34.040 little bit before that and the lectures

01:48:37.640 were engaging and I think the reason for

01:48:40.620 that is because I never discussed

01:48:44.020 anything in my lectures that I didn't

01:48:46.040 believe to be important like

01:48:48.600 and and important what I meant by

01:48:50.560 important it's sort of I had a kind of a

01:48:53.200 technical assessment of it it's like I

01:48:55.460 really like abstract ideas and I like

01:48:57.440 philosophical ideas and psychological

01:48:59.340 ideas scientific and theological I like

01:49:02.420 ideas but I also like them to come to a

01:49:04.880 point you know so when I was lecturing to

01:49:07.680 my students the rule always was well

01:49:09.400 here's a fact but here's why knowing that

01:49:12.020 fact is going to make a material difference

01:49:14.340 in your life like you need here's the here's

01:49:16.720 the way that this fact is a tool you know

01:49:19.300 and so I was always trying to communicate

01:49:21.320 with my audience and with myself in a way

01:49:24.160 that ensured that what I was talking about

01:49:26.440 was relevant and informed as it should be

01:49:30.280 from a research scientific and professional

01:49:32.680 perspective but was also of practical

01:49:35.320 significance and I could tell if that was

01:49:38.260 happening because the students were engaged and

01:49:40.460 so I practiced diligently for decades and then to

01:49:45.060 stay away from notes to the degree that that was

01:49:47.140 possible too so that I could attend to the

01:49:49.040 audience so that I was only concentrating on

01:49:51.840 material that was meaningfully engaging and so I

01:49:54.680 would say that that's morphed into this you know it's and the

01:49:58.880 process is partly a technological one because first of all I just had my

01:50:03.440 students you know and the bigger classes were 200 people and then I started using

01:50:08.420 television a little bit in Ontario and then YouTube and and then the audience

01:50:13.160 size has grown the message was working because of what I had practiced doing and

01:50:20.220 then the audience size has grown as a consequence of technological innovation

01:50:26.420 and scaffolding and so it's that process and then the other part of it is

01:50:31.000 that's part of it the other part of it is like I spent a lot of time writing

01:50:37.000 you know the first book I wrote which was maps of meaning that took me I wrote

01:50:41.880 that book for 15 years and I worked on it for three hours a day and I worked on

01:50:45.640 it come hell or high water fundamentally and it was kind of hard on my family

01:50:49.300 because well you have to be mean to do something like that and I really mean

01:50:54.120 that like you know I had my office and I had my my job I was a professor and

01:50:59.860 also a clinical psychologist and so I had a lot of professional

01:51:02.800 responsibilities and I would close myself into my office and for this time all

01:51:07.680 the time and I would chase my family out you know if they came in my cute little

01:51:12.080 kids or my wife who's a very reasonable person it's like what the hell are you

01:51:15.600 doing in here I'm writing you cannot come in here and bother me and the reason

01:51:19.680 and I was harsh about it and the reason for that was like maybe I was thinking

01:51:23.520 about something that took 45 minutes to think through you know and I had all that in

01:51:27.920 my head and then I someone would interrupt me and often maybe because they wanted

01:51:31.920 to see me or they had a perfectly reasonable request and you know then that

01:51:35.840 would all disappear and I couldn't have that and do the writing and so I was like

01:51:41.920 a junkyard dog you know I had barbed wire around my office and if you came in I

01:51:45.760 barked and but the advantage to that was that I spent those fifteen thousand hours

01:51:53.920 something like that really thinking things through and when I wrote that first book

01:52:00.400 I rewrote every sentence of it at least I think fifty times and usually what that meant

01:52:05.680 is I'd write the sentence and then I'd write like ten variants of it and then I'd pick the

01:52:09.920 best variant and then I'd do that repeatedly over the fifteen year period and I learned to

01:52:16.400 structure arguments in a very coherent way and I learned a lot of things that I had at hand you

01:52:22.800 know that I can draw on when I lecture for example as a consequence of all that reading and all that

01:52:27.520 writing and so I think it's the combination of those two things it's it's the reading and the

01:52:32.000 writing that gave me a knowledge base that I can draw on and then there's the continual practice

01:52:37.120 at lecturing and so that seems to be what's produced whatever it is that drew you to whatever it is that

01:52:43.840 we're doing tonight which is a serious discussion about I would say about serious matters so that's

01:52:49.600 all right man well that's it for 2018 okay I just want I want to do one more thing yeah John are you back there

01:53:11.840 would you come out oh come on John I would like to introduce you to John O'Connell John is my tour manager

01:53:22.960 and he has been unbelievably helpful to me for the last so thank you very much

01:53:28.560 thank you so you bet

01:53:36.960 and thank you Mr. Rubin well as long as we're getting all emotional here I mean I've said it to

01:53:41.520 you privately so I may as well say it in front of these couple thousand people I am a better person

01:53:46.080 than I was before we started this thing I so I know what it's like for these guys to be here truly

01:53:51.120 it's been an honor and a thrill I love you man really thanks Steve

01:53:57.920 on that note I'm getting out of the way make some noise 108 shows this year guys incredible incredible

01:54:04.480 thank you everyone

01:54:14.160 it was a pleasure to be here lovely to talk with all of you and so thank you thank you good night

01:54:27.040 good night if you found this conversation interesting or meaningful you might think

01:54:33.200 about picking up dad's books maps of meaning the architecture of belief or his newer bestseller

01:54:38.160 12 rules for life an antidote to chaos both of these works delve much deeper into the topics

01:54:42.800 covered in the jordan b peterson podcast see jordanbpeterson.com for audio ebook and text links

01:54:48.720 or pick up the books at your favorite bookseller I really hope you enjoyed this podcast if you did

01:54:52.960 please leave a rating at apple podcasts a comment a review or share this episode with a friend thanks

01:54:58.080 for tuning in and talk to you next week follow me on my youtube channel jordan b peterson on twitter

01:55:05.040 at jordan b peterson on facebook at dr jordan b peterson and at instagram at jordan.b.peterson

01:55:13.440 details on this show access to my blog information about my tour dates and other events and my list of

01:55:20.400 recommended books can be found on my website jordanbpeterson.com my online writing programs

01:55:27.520 designed to help people straighten out their pasts understand themselves in the present and develop

01:55:32.880 a sophisticated vision and strategy for the future can be found at self-authoring.com that's

01:55:38.880 self-authoring.com from the westwood one podcast network

01:55:50.400 so

01:55:53.520 you

01:55:55.520 you

01:55:57.520 you

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - November 24, 2019

Value is Bound by Limitation

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